The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Remote viewing

Posted on June 11, 2016 by


Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 11 06 16 08:56

      Remote viewing | speymouth

    237 to “Remote viewing”

    1. Lollysmum says:

      I do like that one-it’s good to smile & this one does it for me 🙂

    2. Alan Mackintosh says:

      John Bull looks well tanned! Has he been on his holidays to somewhere sunny in Europe?

    3. Dan Huil says:

      Both funny and poignant. Nice one, Chris.

    4. Davy says:

      How long did it take to teach Boris to repeat that phrase (parrot fashion.)

    5. Croompenstein says:

      Ha ha Chris nice one we will have to add a ‘take back control’ klaxon to the list 🙂

    6. RogueCoder says:

      Outstanding 😀

    7. Dunks says:

      Not remotely possible..!

    8. JLT says:

      That is what is definitely coming if we leave the EU in two weeks time.

      Which is why I’m baffled by the arguments of some of my fellow independence-minded compatriots who also intend to vote ‘Out’ in two weeks time. A fairly decent return of an ‘Out’ vote in Scotland will hurt our cause.

      Once we are out, the breaks that held back the Conservative party will be released and a program of re-writing workers rights and tearing down the NHS will begin while at the same time, a great review of Scotland’s powers as well as the Barnett Formula will take place.

      And before you state that such moves will initiate a 2nd Referendum, the Tories as part of the their argument will hold up the Scottish results from the EU Referendum and point out that Scotland voted the same way as the rest of the UK and that no real difference can be found. It doesn’t matter if Scotland returns a result of 50%-55% of ‘Remain’ …the damage will have been done. We need 60% or above to have a real argument that Scotland is politically a different entity from the rest of the UK. A low ‘Remain’ vote will just have Westminster smiling at us as they keep pointing at the statistics from the EU Referendum and state that the Scottish are just as British in attitude as the rest of the UK.

      Beware of the political consequences that an ‘Out’ vote will do to not only our place amongst other European nations, but (1) you will throw us to the Tory wolves which have a fair chance of being led by Boris, Gove and IDS, (2) will see the rights of every common person in the UK rewritten for the benefit of a London-based elite, (3) will see Scotland reviewed in every way including Barnett, that will eventually destroy our education system as well as our NHS and (4) could potentially end the argument of a 2nd Referendum if Scots in large numbers vote the same way as England.

      Beware of how you vote that day. Voting to escape an EU system that admittedly, does have the odd ‘corrupt’ department will lead to Scotland being badly abused by an even greater ‘corrupt’ power such as the Conservative Party. Your dislike for the EU could hurt every person in Scotland; including yourself …more than you can imagine.

    9. jimnarlene says:


    10. Macandroid says:

      What JLT says.

    11. Breeks says:

      OT but might get away with under the topic remote viewing…

      English football fans during a pro/anti EU referendum are back in Marseille where they caused loads of trouble in 98, are already fighting with the local French, provoking ISIS in a city with loads of Algerian muslims on Ramadan, skirmishing with the advance guard of Russian neo-nazis before the full Russian support descends, and you also want to provoke the French riot police???

      My not-so-bright English chums, you shouldn’t be provoking the riot Police, you should be offering to mow their lawns, clean their cars, take their dogs for a walk and look after their kids while they go to the cinema. Just sayin….

    12. Thepnr says:

      Put that word bubble over Hamish or Nicola and I would agree.

    13. Fixitfox says:

      Oh Hamish you’re looking so laid back these days, it encourages us to have no doubts at Indyref2 is on the horizon. Hail Caesar!.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      The Perfect Storm is brewing. Let’s make it happen. Everybody must make sure we encourage people to get out and vote in.

      Great cartoon Chris.

    15. Valerie says:

      I always admire the way Hamish is friendly and calm around John Bull, sharing a sofa. Hamish has impeccable manners – for now.

      At Breeks, I’ve only seen the English football fans reported on social media, it’s quite disgusting.

      At JLT, completely agree. I’m on FB as much as possible posting to that effect. You have to bear in mind, like here, many lurk to read, so let’s hope Scots think hard, and vote Remain, to vote Leave with England just doesn’t bear thinking about.

    16. Sassenach says:

      What JLT and Bob Mack say.

      Love the cartoon.

    17. DerekM says:

      Aye keep that remote control away from him Hamish last time he ordered yon invisible jam for next day delivery and we still havnt got it.

      If he keeps buying rubbish we will need to break up the joint account.

      LOL nice one Chris 🙂

    18. Tinto Chiel says:

      Great to see Hamish back, Chris.

      Mr Angry Murray, MP for the Socialist Republic of Morningside, isn’t wearing too well, is he? 😉

      JLT: yea, yea and thrice yea. Well said. We need to vote in a way which emphasises the huge difference in attitude between Scotland and England, if only for future reference.

      Unfortunately, I suspect the 60/40 Remain polling in Scotland at the moment will not translate into hard votes because of voter apathy.

      The level of frothing racism down south is very worrying and much of it now seems to be directed against us. God knows what would happen in the unlikely event of Remain winning by a few thousand Jock votes.

      Do the Proud-Scot-buts really enjoy all this pain and humiliation?

      Time for Cams to get on the blower to MI5 and get those postal votes sorted, methinks.

    19. Croompenstein says:

      John Bull honours his Proud Scots..

      John Bull can’t buy True Scots..

    20. Dcanmore says:

      Nice one JLT, agreed!

      Remember folks what reserved powers Westminster has over Scotland, it includes the stripping or shutting down our own Parliament and a reduction of politicians. Plenty in Labour and Lib Dems that would help the Tories do it. We must Remain or be left at the mercy of uncontrolled sociopaths and pathological loons. We can be independent by 2021 or we can be reduced to mere regional status forever.

      Remember, out of the EU at this time and Scotland is isolated, we’ll get run over by fast-tracked TTIP and the final round of mass privatisations and huge budget cuts. But with Scotland attaining independence while the people are still EU citizens now then the people can force a series of further referendums within a year on a new Scottish government that will decide on EU, currency, NATO, HM Queen et al.

      I believe it will be much more difficult, if at all possible, for Scotland to be independent if we are outside the EU and within an more isolated UK. Scotland would just be seen on the international stage as an ‘internal problem’. We need to stay IN to retain our current status as EU citizens and the Rights that go with it which protects us from the Yoons, and with that we can gain independence by 2021.

    21. Valerie says:

      Hoho, Kevin McKenna makes a plea in the Herald – wait for it….

      Labour have to call back Stephen Purcell !!!

      I swear that guy is a double agent.

    22. Tinto Chiel says:

      No Breeks, you’ve got it all wrong. Pravdasound4 has explained all the trouble in Marseille has been caused by “heavy handed” French police, see? 😛

      You would have to be a monumentally stupid England fan to want to tangle with French riot police.

      Oh…oh yes…I see…

    23. schrodingers cat says:

      the 2eme REI has been drafted in from Nimes to help the marseille gendarme

      this should be worth watching

    24. carjamtic says:

      Breaking News

      Charlie Sheen knocks back a knighthood

      ‘Me and Andy have been close mates for years,he’s my bruvver from a different muvver,but speaking to the taxi drivers in Easterhouse,I feel that these awards have become devalued’

      Nice Chris,JB losing weight,looking stressed.


    25. DerekM says:


      So i wonder who bribed the UK border guards to let the yobo`s out for a trip to France.

      Must be a relief for the French police they havnt got to beat up on their own people for a dodgy government this time.

      I sense a wings spectacular on the difference between Britain and England not for our benifit but for some really silly people who dont know the difference and think the George Cross is the flag of Britain.

      Ha after that you will be lucky to get past the first round i foresee a dodgy penalty decision a soft red card and a bias ref,in fact im putting cash on it lol

    26. Bob Mack says:

      @Scridingers cat,

      Is that the Foreign Legion regiment? If so,they take no prisoners.

    27. Thepnr says:

      @Bob Mack

      Yes Bob, the 2nd Foreign Legion regiment.

    28. Luigi says:

      Dear John,

      You never were in control, ya numpty!


    29. velofello says:

      Great cartoon observation. Everyone’s a gem.

      Good article JLT, I admit to not being aware of any corrupt EU departments, and I’m not at all happy with the treatment meted out to Greece.

      However, the behaviour of the UK and it’s departments,through history truly disgusts me. And this facade of a parliamentary democracy. The SNP, and so by extension, the Scottish electorate wish for a reworking of political powers, be it dev-max through to independence yet this “Mother of Parliaments” brushes aside the clearly stated political wishes of Scotland,one of four countries comprising the UK.

    30. Grouse Beater says:

      Very subtle, Chris. 🙂

      The Tories are doing their best to roll back civil rights, and privatise society. When they advocate we leave the EU they know it gives them complete freedom to go all the way with the worst of neoliberalism. Labour essentially Toryism with a working class accent (embodied in Dennis Skinner) means to leave the EU will have us face another century fighting the same battles we won in the past, but lost because we embraced rampant consumerism as a substitute for justice and fairness and liberty.

    31. heedtracker says:

      John Bull’s in their scotland region are getting very angry at us.

      Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 13h13 hours ago
      We all know the sort of campaigning of which @theSNP is capable. Its #EUref campaign is muted to the point of barely being visible.

      Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 13h13 hours ago
      More effort from a battered @scottishlabour in #euref than from the party with all the power, members and resources. Where are you @theSNP?
      16 retweets 21 likes

    32. heedtracker says:

      Thank Sir, may I have another

      Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
      (((Angus Curran))) ?@Anguscurran 14h14 hours ago
      @dhothersall @MhairiHunter Lies and sleaze are to be expected in politics, the hypocrisy of the SNP during #EUref won’t be forgotten.

    33. Valerie at 10.25

      Stephen Purcell came out as a YES man. It is Labour figures like Stephen Purcell we need (despite the pretty public mistakes he has made).

    34. Sunniva says:

      For Gawds sakes folks, hold your noses if you have to, but vote Remain!

      Brexit Britain = unfettered Tory rule.

      King Boris? Fluffy Mundell put in control of Scottish agriculture as Westminster repatriates ‘British’ powers? The Brexiteers back more firmly in the saddle than ever before?

      No thanks!

    35. Macandroid says:

      O/T Just received my copies of the WBB ?

      I think I’ll deliver them after the EU referendum once we know the result from Scotland.

      BTW vote Remain to move towards Independence.

    36. Valerie says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      That’s nice for Stephen, but c’mon, it’s far too late for SLab, no matter who they bring in. McKenna is grieving for something that has no chance of happening.

      I honestly don’t think there are any strong Indy supporters left to steal from SLab, and I’m pretty sure the No voters moved over to the Ruth party.

      They have no cash, no credibility, on which to build. They are still SNP bad.

    37. DerekM says:

      Poor Dunky yoons all falling down it wasnt that when they flung the EU card in the middle of our indy referendum with a big stonker of a lie saying indy would be out the EU.

      Well suck it up slabbers you dumb ass yoons are about to throw away 10% of the vote you told porkies to so they would vote no over false fears of losing their EU status.

      Tough break hope you like it when we chuck it right back in your lying faces.

    38. Grouse Beater says:

      That British patriot Dyson has come out for Brexit – the man who makes his goods in China cheap and sells ’em at massively expensive prices – yet they still break down.

      Of course, it is abundantly clear that the EU deciding certain high powered hoover speeds screw up the atmosphere has bugger all to do with Dyson’s decision!


      While I work on this litigious Glasgow Art School ‘I Accuse’ essay here’s a film review for those looking to wash their brain of Brexit for a couple of hours tonight:

    39. cearc says:

      Well that should be fun watching the poor, brave,misunderstood england supporters celebrating lizzie’s b’day by throwing chairs at the Legionnaires!

    40. mike cassidy says:

      What would be the legal position of any English supporters arrested in the coming weeks?

      Is the treatment legally more lenient because they are currently EU citizens?

    41. Gary45% says:

      A CLASSIC.
      Nice one.
      Wee black books arrived today.

    42. heedtracker says:

      Don’t know what will go down tory BBC today but yesterday, BBC led hackdom were going apeshit at Corbyn for Labour’s terrible to non existent EU campaigning. BBC, C4 especially gave poor old JC a right kicking, no one knows whether JC and Lab are in or out, you dreadful old fool etc.

      Subsequently, John Bull’s in their scotland region are upset

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 15h15 hours ago
      .@MhairiHunter Project do-nothing-but-slag-off-people-on-the-same-side not doing much good either.

    43. DerekM says:

      Well my money is on the French police i have seen them in training their formation is impressive got some good players highly trained,the other side have been on the slash and burn and down the pie shop eating buns and drinking lager.

      Its not even going to be a contest still those French stairs down to the holding cells are dodgy watch you dont fall down them English and bang your head on some poor French policemans riot stick.

    44. Croompenstein says:

      Anyone know what the Welsh team will be using for their national anthem today?

      I know Norn Iron will be singing the praise of Betty but Wales?

    45. yesindyref2 says:

      Sturgeon saying now, for some reason, we’ll use the pound, and the usual nonsense from Unionists in the Herald. And they talk about others (like me) needing education!

      There’s a lot of good material on the Wealthy Nation website, and perhaps they could be invited to produce an article for Wings, on currency, central bank, LOLR, Prudential banking, and the possibility of Commercial Banks issuing the currency rather than a Central Bank?

      As kind of happens now, and happened in the 19th Century until some Treasury Act (1857???). Basically at the moment Scottish notes are 100% guaranteed via the deposit of equivalent Giant and Titan banknotes in £ Sterling at the BoE, but an Indy Government Currency Control Board could allow that to slip to 70%, 50%, 30% if it wanted to.

    46. davidb says:

      On shortbread radio they are talking of getting McDoom to be the face of remain in Scotland. I have my postal vote and its not filled in. If that ball sack gets a high profile role I will vote leave.

      These people are fucking clueless.

    47. galamcennalath says:

      Sunniva says:

      “Brexit Britain = unfettered Tory rule.”

      Yes, in the same way NO in Scotland = Tory rule.

      Not everyone comprehends that both these referendums hand more and more power over to WM Tories.

      If you like the Tories and feel they are the right people to run things, then vote NO and LEAVE

      If you are one of the 80% for Scots and 65% of UK voters who don’t want Tory rule then FFS stop handing power to them of a plate!

    48. JLT says:


      Good article JLT, I admit to not being aware of any corrupt EU departments, and I’m not at all happy with the treatment meted out to Greece

      LOL …to be honest, neither do I, but I do believe that most folk are annoyed at the way that some bureaucrats may be unelected but have a great say in how laws are implemented throughout the EU. Like yourself, I also agree that Greece has been treated shamefully.

    49. heedtracker says:

      Tragi comic watching toryboy buffoons making fools of themselves on twitter, especially UKOK hacks. Interesting how both red and blue John Bull toryboy’s turn on the SNP and Alex Salmond, as they try and fail to work out what on earth’s going on.

      Tim Montgomerie ? ?@montie Jun 9
      Inners are Britisceptics. They think economy will fail. There’ll be WW3. We’ll treat workers badly. They may love UK but don’t believe in it
      254 retweets 304 likes
      Reply Retweet 254
      Like 304

      @montie It was insulting twaddle when Salmond said this stuff about Scottish Unionists in 2014; it’s no better coming from you now.

      Massie’s clearly missed the giant Project Fearing pouring out No.10, Treasury, Bank of England, OBR, IFS but like all john Bulls, he hoiks up his patriotism

      alexmassie ?@alexmassie Jun 9
      @montie And, frankly, I disliked having my patriotism questioned in 2014 & don’t really see why it should be questioned again in 2016.

      Mark Twain was right, patriotism is the last refuge of the UKOK scoundrel.

    50. Croompenstein says:

      OH FFS have you seen the TV Listings for Channel 5 today..

      I’m a Scotsman get me out of heeeeerrrreeeee!!!

    51. Valerie says:

      @Croomp, haha, totally shameless obsequious grovelling from Channel 5, BUT Channel 4 are calling them out by showing Titanic 🙂

      Police have used tear gas on English footie fans, reported by RT.

    52. David says:

      I’m on a marginally remote Greek island and their are a few John Bulls here with their Brexit postal votes already cast. They like the Greeks and come here regularly and stay for varying but sometimes extended periods of time but it is a qualified type of like. Much of it seems to be based on the premise that their vote has nothing to do with the ease of visiting and hanging out here which, they believe, will continue to be their right even if we leave the EU. Their liking for the Greeks seems to only be for Greeks who stay in Greece and don’t dare move to blighty and become their neighbours. One thing this referendum is highlighting is the staggering number of dumb fucker hypocrites that have a vote.

    53. JLT says:

      To answer Velofello’s wee question from earlier, the corruption that is perceived in the EU seems be more a case of abuse by national governments and their local departments in their use of the EU. Bribery also seems to be high. The Commission highlighted that:

      ?Public procurement (public bodies buying goods and services) forms about one-fifth of the EU’s total output (GDP) and is vulnerable to corruption, so better controls and integrity standards are needed
      ?Corruption risks are generally greater at local and regional level
      ?Many shortcomings remain in financing of political parties – often codes of conduct are not tough enough
      ?Often the existing rules on conflicts of interest are inadequately enforced
      ?The quality of corruption investigations varies widely across the EU

      Seems that the perceived corruption isn’t just a case of the EU being corrupt …it’s being corrupted by the actual governments of the EU countries themselves (which then leads one to conclude that the cherished ‘Out’ vote is not going to improve the democracy of the UK as stipulated by Boris, Farage and Co. After all, there’s no corruption or state manipulation to be found in the byzantine world of politics in the Palace of Westminster now, is there?!?! No …surely not as we are guided by the tolerant and liberal minded Conservative Party and the unelected House of Lords!…aye …it makes you wonder, eh!).

      So it could be said …the EU isn’t the problem; it’s the nations and how they use the EU that are the problem.

    54. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Phil the Greek’s Top Tip for Colour Trooping Day: insert a helium-filled balloon inside the big bearskin bunnet before donning – helps alleviate the weight.


    55. scottieDog says:

      Ns on national about keeping the pound. Ffs when are the snp going to sack their economic advisor s?

    56. Grendel says:

      I watched the most recent ITV debate with a mixture of deja-vu and disgust. During the independence referendum we had all the scare stories thrown at us; that jobs would be at risk, investment would be at risk, that trade and immigration barriers would be erected, that freedom of movement would be lost or restricted, and that old favourite; the uncertainty. I heard all of those arguments aired again, and sadly Nicola Sturgeon stooped to the level where even she was using them. Were it not for the possibility that a Scottish Remain vote might trigger a new independence referendum then I am convinced that Scottish Remain support would be far less than it currently is.

      Likewise I heard all the opposing views rehashed; No clear plan, that assertions and aspirations can’t be guaranteed. All that was missing was the currency and the oil. It galls me to see the likes of Boris Johnson speaking about the unfairness of seeing our money go out to receive crumbs back, about unelected politicians ruling over us and about controlling our own destiny. To him these AREN’T principles, for if they were they would have surely have championed them when Scotland sought them!

      Two things about the ITV debate grated with me more than anything else. The first is the idea which was floated that by staying in the EU we can somehow reform it. That, I’m afraid is Vow grade nonsense. We are voting to either remain or leave an evolving project, where we can be constantly outvoted on any issue, much like Scottish MP’s at Westminster. Reforming the EU is simply not on the table.

      The second issue which I took extreme issue with was the view made by Angela Eagle MP: that we need to immigrants to do the jobs we won’t. Previously the argument for immigration was that we needed to bring in skilled workers to fill the “skills gap”. Clearly this gap has been filled now that Ms Eagle’s argument is the most oft used nowadays. How utterly crushing must it be for unemployed people who would desperately take a job, any job, to be told by some MP on a fat salary plus expenses that they don’t want to work? I’ve recently met a French woman stacking shelves in a supermarket, a Spaniard serving coffee and a Polish man working in a bar serving beer. Are we to seriously believe that unemployed Scots don’t want these jobs? Of course they do! But when employers switch from employing a local workforce to an immigrant workforce you can be damn sure it isn’t because the locals no longer want to work. Businesses do so because they have found a new pool of people they view as easily exploited; less knowledgeable of their rights, less likely to become trade unionised and more easily coerced to accept poorer terms and conditions.

      Immigration isn’t a bad thing, and within the EU it works both ways, but often it is simply exploited by big business. That’s to be expected. Few business people make money by being nice or fair or generous. But for politicians to paint our need for immigration as a result of our unwillingness to work, that just isn’t on.

    57. heedtracker says:

      And in piles tory stuffed shirt Ruth MacThatcher, to save Massie from whatever it is he’s blaming YESers for not doing enough of to save teamGB.

      Its creepy how Ruth MacThatcher’s had almost no Remain campaign involvement whatsoever. Could it be they dont want another stuffed shirt making it even worse

      Ruth DavidsonVerified account
      @montie @alexmassie you called inners Britsceptics. I’ve spent years of my life fighting to keep Britain together, so don’t take it kindly.

    58. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The cartoon above actually generated LOL here! Unusual for me…

      Well done Chris – and Hamish!

    59. Connor McEwen says:

      Scottie dog, Keeping the pound an interim measure then use Sterling and maybe the Groat later.
      The Groat I believe was an old former Currency of Pict land.
      Or sumfin like tha!!!

    60. heedtracker says:

      Grendel says:

      All the immigrants you list working here have jobs because they have jobs. And they have jobs for all the reasons you get a job. So whatever youre bashing on about, stopping bashing immigrants.

    61. DerekM says:

      @ scottieDog

      We will need to use something scottie the pound is just as good as any other until we can extract ourselves from the unionist system,after that with our oil reserves and other resources we can do what ever we like as we will own the bank and the printing press and be able to allocate government spending and taxation a more sane way or at least i hope we can.

    62. Cuilean says:

      If the UK, including Scotland votes ‘Leave’, EVEL will accelerate and it won’t be long before moves are made, by right wing Tories, to weaken & eventually dissolve the Scots Parliament. That agenda was foreshadowed on Question Time, by tory Chris Grayling, the Leader of the House of Commons, and leading Brexiteer, when he broadcast, on 9th June 2016, the clear agenda:

      “The Scottish people, thank goodness, and well done for campaigning Eddie [Izzard], voted to stay part of the United Kingdom. We are one United Kingdom. We vote as one United Kingdom. Every single citizen, from Stornoway to St Ives, will vote with the same weight about all of our futures, in or out of the European Union. I say thank goodness Scotland didn’t vote for independence. If it had done, it would be in the middle of the most profound financial crisis now, because of the collapse in the oil price.And actually, at the Scottish elections,the nationalists went down, and the most recent poll shows that support for nationalism in Scotland has gone down. We are one country. I am proud to be one country. We should carry on being one country.”

      Grayling then mentions N. Ireland but returns to Scotland,

      “The most recent opinion polling, in Scotland, during this campaign,in the last few days, and at a time when the Brexit campaign has been gaining momentum, has shown, actually, a fall in support for Scottish separation”.

      It’s clear that if Scotland mirrors England in Brexit, that forces will be (in fact are already) moving to destabilise the Scots Parliament, to bring this daft wee notion of Scots devolution to an end. A Scots vote ‘leave’ strengthens that Yoon agenda.

      Sae, clappit yer nebs an chusit ‘Bide,’ fur the lang road hame, tramppit o’er lang syne.

    63. Cuilean says:

      Burst out laughing at that image, Chris. Great! Thanks!

    64. Cuilean says:

      Watching the BBC news yesterday, with sub-titles ‘ON’, was amused to see the ‘Trooping of the Colours’ interpretated by the BBC’s autocue subtitles as the ‘drooping of the Colours’. Caused much family laughter.

    65. heedtracker says:

      That agenda was foreshadowed on Question Time, by tory Chris Grayling, the Leader of the House of Commons, and leading Brexiteer, when he broadcast, on 9th June 2016, the clear agenda:

      He did. Worry level of attack brewerising our way soon.

      BBC r4 Question Time from Edinburgh today, with crowd cheering a tory hack stating there’ll never be another Scottish referendum, especially with Brexit.

      Usual tory BBC stuff, panel includes one SNP MP, the last SLab MP from Scotland, a tory Scot MP from England and a tory hack.

    66. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Connor McEwan.

      “The pound Scots (Modern Scots: Pund Scots, Middle Scots: Pund Scottis) was the unit of currency in the Kingdom of Scotland before the kingdom unified with the Kingdom of England in 1707. It was introduced by David I, in the 12th century, on the model of English and French money, divided into 20 shillings, each of 12 pence.”

      That’s from:-

      The Groat was worth 4 pennies.

    67. Grouse Beater says:

      Grendel: “The first is the idea which was floated that by staying in the EU we can somehow reform it. That, I’m afraid is Vow grade nonsense.”

      Exactly who do you mean by ‘we’?

      Scotland can’t do it alone, but happily there is a massive movement on the march in Europe demanding change. Take note of what is happening outside Westminster and you’ll see the world in a different light.

    68. scottieDog says:

      Be far harder extracting ourselves from the pound down the line.
      Also remaining in currency union with a larger country which is ideology driven over its economy will mean we are restricted in terms of deficit spending. Thing is new scotland will require large deficit spending to get us going – exactly what post war Britain did.

      Having monetary policy dictated by ruk is very bad idea.
      By all means have a pegged currency in the v short term

      Just have a look at how restrictive being a member of the euro is….

    69. Iain More says:

      Spot on with the cartoon.


      I don’t think I will bother with the Team UKOK GB versus the Team Putin thing.

      Imagine those French Legionnaires getting stuck into those British Football Fans. Love Bombing isn’t what it used to be is it.

      I haven’t heard of any bother with Team UKOK GBs second and third or fourth select footie fans.

    70. Grouse Beater says:

      EU – In Or Out?
      My personal view, but as ever, made after careful thought:

    71. DerekM says:

      I am all for our own currency but the reality is until we can
      extract our economy from the mess of the union adding the problem of starting a new currency and still having to deal with getting back what is ours and giving them what is theirs could be a very difficult task to do at the same time,being in the same currency also means they cant do a run on us and put the power of corrupt London to devalue and ruin us,oh and they will try it if they get the chance.

      Then throw in the potential EU negotiations about us taking over the UK membership as our own,nope i think we should be patient on the currency change more bridges to cross first.

    72. Iain More says:


      I took the wife of a French Policeman to the cinema. Lovely she was as well. Her husband was off with his mistress. Vive La France!

    73. schrodingers cat says:

      deuxieme regiment etranger d’infanterie

      … Das Reich

      yup, buy some popcorn folks

    74. Paula Rose says:

      I’ve got some info for Haggis Hunter and Mealer, come and see me over in Off-topic boys or if anyone else sees them ask them to pop over – ta.

    75. Valerie says:

      Chris Grayling? Pah! What a pussy.

      I see your Grayling, and raise you Lord Owen. Brexit will see the Barnett formula ‘revised’.

      In other words, vote Leave, and we will ensure the Scots suffer WAY more.

      I seriously don’t know why, after everything that has happened since 2014, folk don’t get what Brexit means to Scotland.

    76. Breeks says:

      No, no, no. First Minister, please don’t go down the route of keeping the pound. I mean, keep it if you like, trade it, sell it, roll it up and smoke it, but please, this time around let us pick the battleground, and let that battleground be Scotland having the sovereign choice to choose its currency, NOT to repeat the same interminable conjecture about the actual choice it would make.
      Leave the “Oh yes we can / Oh no you can’t”, bickering to the Christmas pantomime season, and when we engage the Unionists over currency, have them tell us why Scotland should be denied the sovereign right to choose and/or change whatever currency best suits our Scottish economy. There is no need even to mention the pound sterling. That is an item on their agenda, not yours.

    77. Valerie says:

      @Breeks, I believe Nicola answered the pound, in answer to a direct question at a debate.

      I think she is spot on. She hasn’t announced it, it was picked up by the Press, so it’s out there without her getting into an argument.

      The thing is, Indy supporters know the truth came out after the referendum, and the don’t knows are reassured by the familiar.

      Clever politicking.

    78. Dr Jim says:

      Remember what Mervyn King recently said

      Scotland using the pound would have been no problem with or without agreement, in his opinion Osborne would have changed his position if we’d won, of this he had no doubt

      He agreed it was a tactic by Better Together to scare with and once they saw it had a little traction they went full bore with it

    79. Connor McEwen says:

      Cuilean at 1.16 pm, nice one.Am fur AYE IN, Remain,Stay,etc.

      Breeks and Derekm. I like the sound of Pistole from the Scots pound.Then if it disnae work yi can shoot Westminster with it.

      Or the Hardhead it has connotations of Roundhead and Oliver Cromwell who got rid of the Monarchy.
      Groat has too close a connection with Grotty.

    80. cirsium says:

      @velofello, @JLT
      I don’t know about corruption but there is definitely abuse of power and a huge question mark over the quality of decision making of the Commissioners and the unaccountable bureaucracy. Regarding abuse of power, here are two recent cases of EU officials ignoring decisions by the Court of Justice of the European Union –

      Regarding the quality of decision making, For a different picture of the camp which Mr Tusk visited, see the reference in this article

      The EU sanctions on Syria have just been renewed. Here is an extract from a petition to end the sanctions in Syria which is being run by in Italy on behalf of Syrian Christians –
      “In 2011 the European Union initiated the sanctions against Syria, presenting them as “sanctions on personnel of the regime,” but which imposed an oil embargo, blocked any financial transaction, and prohibited the trade of many goods and products. This measure continues today, although with a somewhat inexplicable decision, in 2012 the oil embargo was removed from areas controlled by the armed and jihadist opposition, in order to provide economic resources to the so-called “revolutionary” forces and the opposition .

      In these five years, the sanctions on Syria have helped destroy Syrian society … Food shortages, widespread unemployment, inaccessibility of medical care, rationing of drinking water, electricity. Not only that, the embargo makes it impossible for the Syrians who settled abroad before the war to send money to their relatives or family members left behind. Non-governmental organizations engaged in assistance programs are unable to send money to their workers in Syria.

      That’s not all: rhetoric about refugees fleeing the Syrian war appears hypocritical if at the same time we continue to starve, prevent medical care, deny drinking water, work, security, and dignity to those who remain in Syria. So we turn to the parliamentarians and mayors of each country so that the iniquity of sanctions on Syria is made known to the citizens of the European Union (now totally unaware) and become, finally, the subject of a serious debate and consequent resolutions.”

      Does that mean vote Leave? Definitely not. As Sunniva says above, Brexit Britain = unfettered Tory rule. Vote Remain and the question about EU membership can be considered when we become independent.

    81. heedtracker says:

      I see your Grayling, and raise you Lord Owen. Brexit will see the Barnett formula ‘revised’.

      Grayling had a clear and rehearsed UKOK list of why toryboy world’s decided support in his scotland region for independence is going going gone, starting with the SNP losing Holyrood majority, running through the latest poll shows drop etc

      Liam Fox on latest BBC r4 Question Time, does the same thing to Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, as does Ian Murray.

      Reality, tory gov is in there with 25% of UK electoral vote, Murray’s the only SLabour Westminster MP, Liam Fox is a disgraced MP, disgraced for doing very scary stuff threatening national security but he got away with it though and now he’s back lying for red and blue tory UK again.

      Meanwhile tory BBC creep show’s buried latest English football violence in France, just like BBC Scotland did after same thuggery in Glasgow 18th Sept 2014.

      We’re getting another spectacular display of just how corrupt the UK actually is, in the space of 24 hours.

      From the Newstatesman a few months back-

      Let’s remind ourselves what Fox did. He allowed his close friend and best man, Adam Werrity, to take up an unofficial and undeclared role in which he attended meetings at the Ministry of Defence without first obtaining security clearance. Werrity had access to Fox’s diary, printed business cards announcing himself as his advisor, and even joined him at meetings with foreign dignitaries.

      An investigation by then cabinet secretary Sir Gus O’Donnell found that Fox had shown a lack of judgement by blurring the lines between his official role and his personal friendships. His report concluded: “The disclosure outside the MoD of details about future visits overseas posed a degree of security risk not only to Dr Fox, but also to the accompanying official party.”

    82. Breeks says:

      See? We are instantly in dispute about a thing that doesn’t matter.

    83. HandandShrimp says:

      If it is a Leave vote – which to my surprise is looking more likely by the day – then we should hold our fire until the dust has settled. The run up to an Indyref 2 will be fueled by the fall out from Brexit as voters in Scotland begin to see the implications of what it means.

      It may well be the case that the EU might look rather more favorably on a transition where Scotland remains a member.

      We live in interesting times.

    84. Petra says:

      @ Valerie at 2:28pm …. “I seriously don’t know why, after everything that has happened since 2014, folk don’t get what Brexit means for Scotland.”

      I don’t get it either Valerie. If we leave the EU Scotland is going to be ruled by one of the most unfettered, right-wing dictatorial Governments ever to have held power in over a hundred years. Maggie Thatcher’s ignominious ‘reign’ over the Scots will pale into insignificance in comparison. You only have to study the credentials, past and current actions and ideology of people like Johnston, Gove, IDS, Priti Patel and Farage. Have a look at some of the comments they have made over time about the poor, disabled, unemployed and even employed: Want to see UK workers work their butts off like those in Indian sweatshops. Take a look at some of the comments they have made about the Scots (sort us out) and our Parliament (dissolve it). If these people get into power the democratic rights of every man, woman and child residing in the UK are going to be totally decimated along with our NHS and so on. That’s my view of course and appreciate that others won’t agree with me but would like to hear about their vision of the future of Scotland within the UK (out of the EU) and how, in what way / s, they see Scotland actually benefiting through leaving the EU.

      @ Grouse Beater at 2:38pm …. ‘EU – In or out?’

      Another excellent article GB and thanks for mentioning the Europe Movement 2025, which I hadn’t been aware of. Very interesting indeed.

    85. Lochside says:

      Picking up on Heedtracker’point about the perennial suppression by the BBC of English thugs behaviour being mirrored by BBC Scotland ‘re.the events if the 19th 2014 in George Square.
      Compare and contrast their constant characterization of the Cup final pitch invasion as on a par with real hooliganism that is occurring in Marseille. Iwatched them broadcast a lying comparison of arrests being up ‘significantly ‘ I.e.up by 50% across 300% more games.. all to demonize the SNP on their fooball disorder legislation.

      I would have thought that politically inspired and organised rioting as experienced that day two years ago by the forces of reaction and bigotry would have merited greater investigation and coverage than a fitba match celebration marred by a goalpost being broken and a few fat old bams hitting each other with their handbags.

    86. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Very slight shift according to bookies, but ‘remain’ still odds-on:

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Petra says:

      “Scotland is going to be ruled by one of the most unfettered, right-wing dictatorial Governments ever”

      There seems to be a general lack of awareness of just how far right England, current English attitudes, the Tories, specifically the hard right wing of the Tories, actually are by European standards.

      Yes, across Europe there are right wing parties, but none so strong as the Tories. And, if the add the UKIP vote, you end up with a lot of voters happy with the movement to the hard right.

      For Scots, it should scary as Hell. But somehow many seem oblivious to the evolving situation down south.

    88. Ghillie says:

      Thank you Chris = )

      John Bull beginning to look frantic.

      Remember what happened last time he thought he was losing. Interesting times indeed.

      Hamish looking relaxed though =) I’ll take my que from him thanks.

      Remain for Scotland = )

    89. Bill McLean says:

      Been on hols – what is this poll Grayling referred to saying support for Scottish independence had dropped?

    90. Dal Riata says:

      See those English sub-cretins doing their country proud down in Marseille? Well, thanks to you, proudScotbuts, that’s who we Scots are supposedly better together with. It must make you so… ‘proud’.

    91. scottieDog says:

      @Dr jim
      The fact that Mervyn king said scotland could use the pound doesn’t mean it should.

    92. Clapper57 says:

      Adam Tomkins tweeted 57 mins ago :

      “Really looking forward to cheering on Wales and England today. Come on you Brits. #EURO2016”

      But he says Feck all about English fans thuggery….the hypocrisy of silence where usually his yoon mouth is moving before his brain engages….

      Andy Burnham with usual ‘mixed Labour message’ condemns violence of ‘minority’ of English while also stating they were ‘provoked’.

      BBC in parallel universe reporting their usual yoon Britannia of ‘move along now nothing to see here’ .

      Am sure the Sundays Yoon gutter press will report the truth…as they see it ….sorry….as they want US to see it rather.

      My God I can only imagine that the good people of Europe must be hoping the vote is BREXIT !

      Hope the Welsh and Northern Irish are complaining to the UKIP rag the Daily Express for their blatant ‘Lie’ re ‘British’ fans being involved in thuggery in Marseilles.

      Think it would be good time to pursue again Toby Perkins, the Labour MP ,idea of a English National anthem to restore English pride and patriotism ( eh Tristram Hunt ! )….good luck with that one…need more than an anthem after this disgraceful display in France !

      Wonder what Big Blue Murdo, Shouty Ruth,Wee Willie et al have to say on this….cannae ignore it…surely ???

    93. Dal Riata says:

      BBC Misreporting June, 2016: (paraphrasing) All is jolity and gaiety here in sunny Marseille with fans of all nations mixing as one. There have been a few reports of some minor skirmishes involving English fans who had been provoked, but these have been few in number. (Lots of shots of fans ‘mingling’. One close up shot of ‘a few’ English fans eyes streaming with teargas.)

      BBC Misreporting 19.09.2014: (paraphrasing) There have been reports of clashes between groups of Yes Scotland supporters angered by the result and a group of Better Together supporters [sic] in George Square, Glasgow. But, nothing to see hear folks. And moving on…[……white noise…..] (Close-up shots of the Better Together supporters [sic] and some close-ups of Yes supporters to make it appear like even numbers, both bent on trouble. No shots shown of the physical and verbal abuse, abusive chanting, burning of the Saltire by those clad in Union Jacks.)

      The BBC: the openly hostile number one enemy of Scotland’s self-determination.

    94. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dcanmore says: 11 June, 2016 at 10:23 am:

      “Remember folks what reserved powers Westminster has over Scotland, it includes the stripping or shutting down our own Parliament and a reduction of politicians.”

      I know, “The Establishment”, is utterly stupid, vindictive and London-centric but even they are most certainly not quite so stupid as that.

      If they thought they could have got away with such a move they would have done so with the rise and rise of the SNP and most certainly would have tried it when a more cross-party YES movement first began.

      They know that there is nothing else that would swing Scots behind full independence than to tighten their control over the Scottish people.

      ” … Plenty in Labour and Lib Dems that would help the Tories do it.”

      Yes, Dcanmore, that is because they are all part of, “The Establishment”. Any small differences between the unionists political parties is illusionary and mainly displayed on the media for the sake of maintaining the illusion of the UK being a democracy.

      ” … Remember, out of the EU at this time and Scotland is isolated … “

      Nah! It just is not going to happen. It never was part of The Establishment’s plans. Cameron, as usual, was not nearly so very clever as he so obviously thinks himself.

      Cameron thought to use the idea of an in/out EU referendum as a lever to prise concessions out of the EU and that part of his plans have already back-fired upon him. He got little or nothing out of the EU and into the bargain he is on the skids as the leader of the government.

      He has also managed to get the independence movement to make gains right across Scotland and that shows little signs of slowing down any time soon.

      He is now wedged between a very hard place and an even harder place. His party are now riven and heading in at least two different political directions.

      Labour, as usual, don’t have a clue as to which faction of the blue Tories to agree with and they too are riven by rivalries.

      The LibDems are perched rather precariously upon far too many muckle shooglie fences and some of those fences are sure to collapse under the much reduced LibDem weight.

      Stand a wee bit back from the trees and you will see the wood a great deal more clearly. Westminster is at internecine war with itself but they know in their bones they dare not make any outward moves to suppress the movement towards Scottish independence for to do so will only succeed in accelerating the whole movement and the point of beginning a landslide is very, very close. It would not take more than a wee nudge to push it over, “The line in the sand”.

      Never forget that one unionist crossing, “The Line in the Sand”, is actually worth two places. It is one more vote for us but is also one less for them.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Bill McLean says:
      11 June, 2016 at 4:56 pm
      Been on hols – what is this poll Grayling referred to saying support for Scottish independence had dropped?

      All here

      YES was at 54% a couple of months but dropped to below 50% last week. UKOK silent on 54%, boosts lower this week. As per…

    96. Grendel says:

      “heedtracker says:
      11 June, 2016 at 1:08 pm
      Grendel says:

      All the immigrants you list working here have jobs because they have jobs. And they have jobs for all the reasons you get a job. So whatever youre bashing on about, stopping bashing immigrants.”

      A strange response. At no point did I “bash” immigrants. I was bashing the MP’s who tell people that the reason we need immigration is to do jobs they won’t do!

    97. heedtracker says:

      Lochside says:
      11 June, 2016 at 4:41 pm
      Picking up on Heedtracker’point about the perennial suppression by the BBC of English thugs behaviour being mirrored by BBC Scotland ‘re.the events if the 19th 2014 in George Square.

      Same goes for UK Euro 2016 thuggery getting the BBC Scotland 2014 treatment and not Scots oil price. UKOK rage away black hole Scotland would be bust with low low bargain oil prices but not a peep out of BBC Scotland now oil price starts to go up.

      Christ knows what toryboy world rage will use to beat Scotland with, if North Sea oil continues to rise to average prices or higher, and after they’ve dragged Scotland out of Europe.

      $50 Brent crude, nothing from this crew

    98. Famous15 says:

      SOS Mundell hosted a reception at Dover House for Trooping the Colours. In the Scottish Office photo I see the NEW presiding Officer but would be interested to know who the others are. I think the Rev has retweeted the photo. Anyone know the faces?.

    99. Croompenstein says:

      Thank God Wales sang land of our fathers. But half time in the Wales game and the BBC are reporting from …. the England camp !!

    100. Grendel says:

      “Grouse Beater says:
      11 June, 2016 at 2:14 pm
      Grendel: “The first is the idea which was floated that by staying in the EU we can somehow reform it. That, I’m afraid is Vow grade nonsense.”

      Exactly who do you mean by ‘we’?

      Scotland can’t do it alone, but happily there is a massive movement on the march in Europe demanding change. Take note of what is happening outside Westminster and you’ll see the world in a different light.”

      We. Us. The little guys.

      A remain vote is, like a No vote was before it, an endorsement of what you have. Cameron has already had his EuroVow, there is no reform on the table. Ask anyone promising to reform it what they will try to change and the topic is quickly changed.

      The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving. Of course by then you are outside the tent, trying to piss in.

    101. heedtracker says:

      How The Guardian headlines English fans latest violence. Poor England fans.

      “Euro 2016: French police clash with England fans in third day of violence”

    102. Dr Jim says:

      @Scottie Dog

      Never said we should
      I said Mervyn King said “We could”


      What’s the big hang up with what it’s called anyway, it could be the Zloti for all I care, money’s money, but most regular people like to have what they know and understand
      I remember the introduction of Decimalisation and the terror older folks had over it, and the price increases that went with it
      People fear that

      I was also living in Spain when it went Euro and they hated it, in fact they still don’t like it, that’s why so many Spaniards hoarded their Pesetas which led to two Amnesties
      because many Spaniards distrust banks and still to this day keep their cash under a tile in the front room (Amazing but true) I can’t think why (Sarcasm)

      The FM has made her statement so that means there’s a plan and
      I’m quite comfortable waiting to see what that’ll be and I don’t believe for a second if Westminster tries the same tactic again the SNP won’t have the answer or she wouldn’t have said what she said

      The planning and preparation for the next round will be far stronger I think, and the opposition will have the more difficult case to make after having blown their own arguments twice now

      My sense is Referendum fatigue will do it’s job on the NO camp and the YES side will win by a bigger margin than we lost the last one

      I believe John Major to be right

    103. heedtracker says:

      French riot cops “clash” with England fans UKOK headlines, a lot like

      “Scottish referendum: Police separate rival groups in Glasgow”

      Its quite easy to learn how to be a UK propagandist.

    104. Phronesis says:

      ‘The EU’s GDP exceeds € 12 trillion versus €4 trillion for China and €1.5 billion for Brazil…the total wealth of EU households is more than € 50 trillion…that’s twenty times more than China’s foreign reserves (€ 2.5 trillion), five times more than Europe’s entire sovereign debt (€ 10 trillion).We absolutely have the means to solve our debt problems on our own- if only Europe would stop behaving like a political dwarf and a tax-revenue sieve’

      Picketty ‘Chronicles’

      However if you have an intense interest in maintaining economic polarisation and ending social democratic dominance to prevent social and political embedding of the market then you will not be interested in the EU’s potential for tax harmonisation, buying social justice and upholding the governance of procurement linkage (corporate social responsibility).

      You will continue to enlist financial ‘experts’ to hide as much wealth as possible for the benefit of capital owners and bonus-collecting managers and expect the state to absorb their losses whilst impoverishing the majority of its citizens. That may be the main motivation for the ‘leave campaign’ who have no interest in safeguarding the environment and social fabric of anywhere outside of the Square Mile or protecting the interests of vulnerable members of society and future generations.

      Scotland would do better to vote to remain (deus ex machina) and then contemplate its relationship with the EU as an independent country.

    105. Clapper57 says:

      BBC news channel 131 English reporter in Paris speaking to guy in Marseilles who repeatedly said English fans…however BBC reporter 3 times said ‘British’ fans…even though guy he was speaking to continuously said ‘English’ fans….wtf are you to do…feckin hate English Broadcasting corruptcorporation.

      Also now official BBC line is French police and Russians to blame and English fans are the victims.

      Sure will be news to other ‘British’ fans that they are being included in BBC misreporting as involved in trouble in Marseilles….get me the feck out of this feckin shit laden union… remain in Europe as Scotland will be majorly fucked if left to Labour/Lib Dem and Tory and corrupt Yoon media.

      I’m a feckin Scot get me out of here !!!!!!!!!!

    106. Glamaig says:

      nice shots of morons with England flags here, didn’t see any as good as this on the BBC.

      Depressingly they are called ‘supporters brittanique’ in the text, though ‘supporters anglais’ in the audio.

    107. Grouse Beater says:

      Grendel: “The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving.”

      And if you’re one of the many millions of Europeans living and working on the continent, then what do you do? Decamp to England?

      You do realise there are mass movements out to alter things now, don’t you? They don’t live in an island and think themselves an exceptional nation. They get off their arses and say we want change.

      England says we’re safer as an island.

      Do you think our economy is safe without Europe, if Europe crashes we can always switch trade to Greenland?

      Do you understand how many of our car firms are owned by BMW, for example, employing thousands of workers?

    108. Inverclyder says:


      1 minute into the ITV match buildup before Germany losing the world cup to the winners in 1966 got a showing!

    109. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun’s got Corbyn in Aberdeen today. Scotland’s being used by both sides in England, but JC says

      “Jeremy Corbyn during a visit to Aberdeen in Scotland. Photograph:
      Scottish voters hoping that a vote to leave the European Union could spark a second independence referendum should first consider their “solidarity with people across the continent”, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.

      The SNP leader and Scottish first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has repeatedly said that a vote to leave the European Union could trigger another vote on Scotland’s future, and former Tory prime minister Sir John Major said earlier this week that a vote to quit the EU could “tear apart the UK”.

      Leave campers say there’s no way the Scots will go, Remain says there’s every chance the Scots will go.

      Sturgeon bad, says sleazy old Graun.

      Just watching England’s, sorry British football fan violence in Marseilles, in their efforts at “solidarity with people across the continent”, Jeremy Corbyn has suggested.

    110. Bill McLean says:

      Heedtracker – thanks, nothing serious then? Bill

    111. KenC says:

      OT. Fabulous result, Wales!

      They were flagging, then their fans started singing THAT song.

      Gave me a shiver.

    112. heedtracker says:

      Weird thing about JC spakething onto the sweaties, they must know how polls are well up for Remain in Scotland. Fair enough, the whole UKOK freakshow’s once again trying to frighten England one way or t’other, only this time deep in rebel territory.

      How committed is that England?!

      We all know JC’s merely telling England, if you want to block Scottish democracy and keep control of your scotland region for good, you know what to do. If you want to risk showing the Scots just how hard we lied to them over stuff like the EU in 2014, that’s what will happen when England Brexits.

    113. Grendel says:

      “Grouse Beater says:
      11 June, 2016 at 6:54 pm
      Grendel: “The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving.”

      And if you’re one of the many millions of Europeans living and working on the continent, then what do you do? Decamp to England?

      You do realise there are mass movements out to alter things now, don’t you? They don’t live in an island and think themselves an exceptional nation. They get off their arses and say we want change.

      England says we’re safer as an island.

      Do you think our economy is safe without Europe, if Europe crashes we can always switch trade to Greenland?

      Do you understand how many of our car firms are owned by BMW, for example, employing thousands of workers?”

      Gee, no, I never thought of that.

    114. Iain More says:

      Well I went to the pub to watch the Wales game. During HT the subject of Brexit came up. I sat quietly whilst Naw Bags were thinking they should vote remain because

      “We have to think about future generations! It is better for them, the grandkids, if we vote to Remain!”

      I couldn’t resist a cutting barb in my anger

      “You are to effin late to be thinking about that now! You should have been effin thinking about that in September 2014 before you sold them out by voting Naw!”

    115. Dr Jim says:

      There must be millions and millions of England supporters at the football thing if that’s what they call a small percentage of troublemakers

      Although to be fair they do keep showing the twenty or so humans sitting at the same bar in the same place as they were yesterday

      Must be a nice place to make them sit there for twenty four hours drinking the same glass of beer

      Thank goodness though they have revealed the culprits of the disorder are the Police and of course the Russians
      Let’s all hope these terrible people don’t follow the England supporters sneakily to the next game, trying to blame all the trouble on the England fans again

      Tut Tut

      Innit nice to get your own back for a change, can’t help myself
      Yours a Holier than thou person

    116. Robert Louis says:

      Could we perhaps have the referendum tonight, leave the EU immediately and seal the border, leaving the inestimably ugly English football thugs to the tender mercies of France’s finest, and their (‘in a french accent’) batons?

      How does the England fan song go? ‘nobody likes us and we don’t care’. Aye mibbes.

    117. Clapper57 says:

      Stop the feckin press…read all about it…right here we go..

      It’s the Russians , French police, locals , Bar owners serving drunks more drink that are to blame….English fans are the victims… it.

      The Russians, French police, locals, Bar owners are also responsible for making English fans do the following in Marseilles:

      1. Sing “No surrender to the IRA” outside an Irish bar.

      2. Chanting “ISIS where are you”.

      3. Chanting “Fuck off Europe we’re all voting out”.

      Of course the above three examples of English ‘fans’ behavior is being widely reported by the BBC who report ‘everything’ so as to give both a balanced and objective view in order that the truth is reported.

      I am now off to join the BBC by feckin burying my head in the sand. And feck me I believe SKY news will be joining us too.

    118. starlaw says:

      Just returned from a coach tour with other Scots oap,s sadly most of them want to leave because of all the millions of immigrants waiting to flood into here. This pack of lies needs to be put to rest very quickly and Labour have no answer. JC is not being taken seriously by any one. The people on this coach firmly believe Europe cannot exist without us, and everything will be all right when we leave as nothing will change regards trade.

    119. Joe Kinnear says:

      The EU is the most progressive thing ever! Why? Because Nicola said so. Using the pound is the best thing ever. Why? Because Nicola said so (until she changes her mind – what next Bitcoin?) And then that will be the best thing ever because Nicola said so etc.

      And naturally Brexit will result in a near-fascist regime that will remove the right to vote and bring back slavery etc. Why because Nicola said so.

      And the Union obviously involves the almost total loss of sovereignty but the EU doesn’t involve any loss of sovereignty (or if it does its that nice ‘pooling and sharing’ type). Why is one bad but the other ‘progressive’ – because Nicola says so.

      As for this ‘progressive’ EU and lining up with nasty people I guess the City of London (Goldman Sachs etc.), the BBC, David Cameron, Georgie Osbourne, the Labour Party, the great and the good of the British establishment are the ‘good guys’ – why because Nicola says so.

      A currency union with rUK involves no significant loss of sovereignty – why? Because Nicola says so.

      Oh and Brexit is ‘too risky’ etc – why because Nicola says so.

      And btw all those people Nicola is lining up with will say to a man that Scottish independence is the most risky thing ever and Nicola will say no it’s not. And someone will quote back the pish she and Salmond have been coming out with during the Brexit debate.

      Why was Brexit too risky but Scottish independence not a risk and Nicola will smirk uncomfortably in her chair and say because I say so – trust me it will be alright on the night.

      And folks will look on and ask has the SNP leadership got a collective IQ above room temperature?

      Answers on a postcard please.

    120. heedtracker says:

      England, sorry British fans booing and whistling Russian national anthem now. So proud of us Brits.

    121. One_Scot says:

      I swear to God, I nearly spat out a mouthful of Budweiser reading this,

    122. Robert Graham says:

      Oh what stirring anthem the Russian one is .
      All sitting with yer Russian tops on boys ?
      To bad we have got to listen to the f/n English Comentry shite boak inducing pish

    123. Gary45% says:

      ENGLISH not British footy fans= Neanderthal fuc*ing INBREDS.
      That sums them up really.

      Expect Boris the arsehole to be on big ears Marr’s show tomorrow morning blaming everyone but the inbreds.
      Proud to be a Scot European, who has Fu*k all to do with Engerland.

    124. Gary45% says:

      OOPs forgot to say COME ON RUSSIA
      Ivan 45%

    125. mealer says:

      The Brits are disgracing themselves in Marseille.

    126. Clapper57 says:

      starlaw says at 7.45pm : “The people on this coach firmly believe Europe cannot exist without us, and everything will be all right when we leave as nothing will change regards trade”.

      I say in response : Hey Starlaw, when you say ‘coach’ do you not really mean ‘ship’ as in ‘space’…I suggest get them to go back to the planet from whence they came and advise them that planet Earth ,in the region of Scotland, where they have travelled to, does not require their alien opinions.

      If you could perhaps get the pilot of the spaceship to fly them to the region of England and ‘dump’ them there, then they and their opinions will fit in better and they will deffo not be considered ‘alien’ in Engerland. Nudge Nudge Wink Wink.

      Live long and prosper Starlaw

      ps. Are you an alien life form too ?

      pps. You don’t seem to be as I suspect that from what you wrote you too think they have arrived at wrong destination.

      ppps. Don’t try and cover for them by stating in your post ‘ “just returned with ‘other Scots oap’s'”…if they are alien get them to Engerland as will be welcomed , they can stay with Nigel or Boris as they too are also considered alien life forms in Scotland.

      ( This post not meant to offend you , just having a bit of fun as I am feeling somewhat overwrought with the (lack of) standard of news currently coming from Marseilles)

      Have fab evening Starlaw.

    127. TJenny says:

      Hey Wingers, here’s a fantastic video version of The Wee Black Book, with fab tunes, which Hugh Barclay has posted to WOS Twitter – I’ll now try posting the link:

      If it doesn’t work, get it from the WOS Twitter feed, (@Jankrobatti 41 mins ago) and don’t worry, if you can’t remember who sang the songs, there’s a list of credits at the end. Enjoy. 🙂

      Hugh – thanks for cheering me up and for your effort.

    128. Papko says:

      ” I’ve recently met a French woman stacking shelves in a supermarket, a Spaniard serving coffee and a Polish man working in a bar serving beer. Are we to seriously believe that unemployed Scots don’t want these jobs? ”

      Where in Scotland do you live ? and what century ?

      If “unemployed Scots ” had a days work in them , they would be working .
      I have just driven through Leven in Fife , there is a farm employing 300 foreign fruit pickers, within a mile of “the most acute poverty and food banks etc”

      It may well be that doing a job, “will affect” their claim”, or “they will be only a few pounds better off”,

      basicly life on benefits is just fine , and there is no need to get a suntan , picking strawberries.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      @Joe Kinnear
      Nicola says you’re a dick. Why? Because Nicola says so.

    130. Thepnr says:


      Think I overheard her say that too. Joe may not have been listening.

    131. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –

      Great to see a wee post from you.

      Why so quiet these days?

      Hope to see you soon.


    132. Grouse Beater says:

      Grendel: “Gee, no, I never thought of that.”

      Low sarcasm doesn’t count as a political solution.

      England versus Russia:
      Every Russian player has a Russian name. Not every England player has an English name. What will England do when it can’t buy in foreign players?

      Meanwhile outside the stadium some sun worshipping English fans let Europe know how much they love Europeans.

    133. Rock says:

      It will be a rigged Remain result.

      Preparations already well under way.

      Half a million registered to vote after the deadline was extended.

    134. Inverclyder says:

      God Save Coleen.

      Who is this Coleen they keep singing about!

    135. TJenny says:

      Hi Ian – I’m always here and do still post, but like everything else in life it’s all down to timing – and I think I tend to post when everyone’s gone for supper or to bed. Did you give the WEE Black Book vid a hearing? (Use second link). It’s fab – even had a wee jig – which discombobulated the cat no end. :-$

    136. Grouse Beater says:

      Joe Kinnear: “EU is the most progressive thing ever! Why? Because Nicola said so.”

      How do internet ramblers find the time to write so much drivel in their busy walks?

    137. Dal Riata says:

      @Joe Kinnear

      Did Nicola, quite rightly, tell you to get tae fuck when you were stalking her like the creep you are?

    138. heedtracker says:

      And naturally Brexit will result in a near-fascist regime that will remove the right to vote and bring back slavery etc. Why because Nicola said so.

      Teatime BBC London news, whole news on full on royals worshipping, vox pop royals worshipping, red arrows fly overs, royals baby salutes, Mall royals street party plans for mass royals worshipping, bit of weather.

      Next on BBC 1, its a Lotto Rollover!, so get your tickets out

    139. scottieDog says:

      @Dr jim
      I don’t care what it’s called either but it’s most important who has sovereignty over the currency.
      Well for one thing, think back to 2012 when the bank of england bought up around 20% of uk public debt. It wasn’t very effective but what it does do is say to people who want to own uk bonds – this is a safe haven. You can buy uk bonds and always get a return because the country will never go bust – we have a central bank which will print money all day and buy it back.

      This is why the imterest rate of our ‘borrowing’ (quotes because it’s purely accounting and is unnecessary) is so low.

      3 decades of govt have told us the economy is like a household when the above blows that out of the water.

      Now consider greece. Who is willing to buy Greek debt? The Greek central bank? No it doesn’t have one- that power has been given to the ECB who are refusing to buy greek debt to ‘teach them a lesson’. If they want people to buy their debt they have to guarantee a high return – hence high interest rate on govt debt.
      Greece very much is like a household.

      What rate could scotland borrow at considering it wouldn’t have its own central bank. Would BOE be ready and willing to buy it’s bonds?
      We would certainly have an economy very much like a household with our monetary policy set on London.

      Ask yourself, how much house can I buy with my £ compared with 15 years ago?
      The reason it’s so different is down to monetary policy and financial regulation set in London. We want to be part of that?

      Sorry but sturgeon is being given duff advice.

    140. Grouse Beater says:

      Scottie Dog: “3 decades of govt have told us the economy is like a household when the above blows that out of the water.”

      They lied, Thatcher too.

      If countries ran their economy like individuals runs their household budget every nation would be bankrupt in a week.

    141. Thepnr says:


      I’ve read many of your posts on the currency issue and do like what you have to say. I’d keep the pound, a brand new Scottish pound. Whether or not we decide to peg it to the RUK pound, the dollar or whatever I don’t really care.

      Let’s keep the pound, make sure it’s a Scottish pound backed up by a central Scottish bank.

    142. Marco McGinty says:

      I was about to predict that the BBC news tonight would concentrate on England’s marvellous result, despite Wales being top of the table.

      Something has just scuppered that!

    143. Dal Riata says:

      I’ve come across many groups of England football ‘supporters’ during my travels in various countries, either in the actual countries where tournaments have been taking place, or in other countries where they have massed to watch the action from elsewhere in pubs and outdoor big screens.

      And, nine times out of ten it has been an unpleasant experience. I have seen sone really horrific incidents perpetrated on innocents and on property – win or lose.

      Don’t get me wrong, huge numbers of these, mostly, guys are fine company and pleasant as can be… when sober and outwith the tribal/group mentality.

      But in large groups when the booze kicks, often times so does the agression, the racism, the anger, the othering, the bottle throwing, the inclination to look for a fight…

      Any group of pissed up thugs masquerading as football supporters is an ugly and vicious thing, but the English do seem to bring a certain disgustingness above and beyond most of these groups.

      Is it a representation of the true heart of England? The xenophobia, racism, agression, unfriendliness, hatred? The psyche that seems to be unable to move on from past British Empire glories while singing, ‘Two World Wars and one World Cup‘, ‘Ten German bombers’ (while playing with their German bomber inflatables) and ‘No surrender to the IRA’? Well, mibbiez aye, mibbiez naw. But it does not a pleasant thing make. And it sure as hell does make you wonder.

      One thing is certain, supporters of the England football team are hated throughout the world, not just Europe. And by their actions, deservedly so.

      Anyway, as they’ll undoubtedly continue their rampaging across France as the tournanent progresses, maybe they can take some timeout to gather up enough signatures to send us Scots another lovebomb about how better together we are, please don’t leave us, and all that. That would be nice, wouldn’t it?!

    144. Onwards says:

      I’m surprised there have been few statements from senior EU politicians. After all, the UK leaving is a threat to all of Europe. Especially if it is then seen to get special treatment afterwards.

      As the vote approaches, perhaps we will start to see some threats – similar to when Tory and Labour politicians lined up and said Scotland couldn’t use the pound.

      1. A VOW of no EEA membership without full price access and full freedom of movement.

      2. European football only for EU or EEA members.

      3. A statement that the UK financial industry would lose ‘passporting’ rights for banks and funds to trade across Europe.

      This threat is why Cameron and Osborne want to remain. Not many people like bankers, but the impact could be severe for the UK economy if London’s status as a financial centre is diminished.

      For that reason I reckon we will see #1, backed up by a statement from many UK politicians that they would vote to negotiate Norwegian style EEA access with freedom of movement.

      That would help to kill off the bigot and xenophobe vote in one sweep. Which we all know is the main reason for 90% of Brexiters.

    145. Lochside says:

      Wonder how Murdo Fraser feels now about the ‘real Queen’s eleven’ performance tonight?…get it right round ye that fucking massey ferguson ye!

    146. Still Positive. says:

      The pnr @ 9.31

      Interesting article in The National yesterday re Keith Brown wanting to set up a Scottish Business Bank and Barclays moving in to lend to SMEs.

      I’m sure a Scottish Central Bank is on the radar at the SNP/Scottish Government.

      Would prefer a Scottish pound, probably at first, pegged to the rUK pound.

      Quel dommage about the footie!

    147. DerekM says:

      @ Thepnr @ Scottiedog

      I agree Thepnr the only thing i disagree with Scottie about is timing,its not so much can we do it yes we can its when should we.

      If we were dealing with a fair just friendly nation who would help the transition i would say lets do but we are not we are dealing with a cheating lying sell their own grannies untrustworthy shower of carpetbaggers.


    148. DerekM says:

      weird that posted itself.

      I would just like to not give them a chance to hurt our new currency in the markets they could do that,i would like all the levers of indy including the EU safety net levers before moving away from sterling,if we are still in sterling they cant touch us in that early transition.

      I dont trust them neither should Scotland.

    149. Clapper57 says:

      BBC reporter David Deakin on BBC news spouting hysterically about Russian fans in stadium attacking English fans also tweets about French police being to blame and other obnoxious biased tweets…what a feckin tool…checked out his twitter and this is what he says :

      “Where the fuck are the police??? England being crushed”

      How (un)professional….how unusual too for a BBC reporter to be so feckin biased…..political and sports BBC journo’s cut from the same feckin cloth.

      On a separate note just need to say as I am considered British by BBC then proud of British team Wales and their fans not letting Britain down today off and on the field.

      David Deakin is a prick ….another one to add to prick of the year list.

    150. Another Union Dividend says:

      O/T Contrary to London media reports saying that the Russian fans have been chasing the English fans as they were leaving the stadium, and how they’ve never seen such scenes in a football stadium before…..

      picked up a tweet from a Telegraph Journalist that suggests the root cause may be otherwise.
      Ben RumsbyVerified account ?@ben_rumsby 16m16 minutes ago

      Trouble has broken out at the final whistle. Objects being thrown by #ENGEngland.png section into #RUSRussia.png end and fans now advancing. #EURO2016

    151. cearc says:

      My farthing’s worth.

      Scots pound pinned initially to Eng £ for easy transition.

      When Eng £ reaches parity with the euro (could be quite quick) then pinned to euro.

      Waves to TJenny, thanks for link. It’s a neat job.

    152. defo says:

      They’re no biting the night Joey boy.
      Change yer bait, too long winded.
      A wee dod of shite works at least as well as a steaming pile does.

    153. TJenny says:

      cearc – waves back. 🙂 I think that vid is fab and I hope others have a look and listen – it’s well worth it.

    154. Brian McHugh says:

      T Jenny, the Wee Black Book video is ‘unavailable’ for some reason?

    155. donnywho says:

      Re-the England football match, the commentators after the England goal, said, “the England fans are strangely throwing bottles at photographers.” Later, when the Russians let off flares. They were shocked, horrified never seen anything like it.

      Now I don’t condone either behaviors. What I do find strange is the ability of the commentators to wear such rose tinted polarized spectacles.

      The one thing that will be interesting is how the right wing press deals with this! Will it be the plucky English fans being picked on by nasty Russian casuals (why am sure are nasty).

      And how will this and the following matches feed or disarm the rather xenophobic leave campaign! It is going to be interesting to watch the polls for the EU campaign. Is nationalism, xenophobia and isolationism going to win and will this sporting event feed the worst of England’s obsessions?

    156. Grouse Beater says:

      The way Brexit supporters assume they’re withdrawing to a wonderful country where everyone has an equal chance in life to develop and prosper is repulsive:

    157. Iain More says:

      Just got a message from a Russian Lady friend, she rather hopes that the Russian fans are getting stuck in to the UKOKer hordes. She ranted something about sanctions being imposed on Russia by UKOK Fascist Govt. I think I will marry her!

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @DerekM says: 11 June, 2016 at 2:41 pm:

      “I am all for our own currency but the reality is until we can extract our economy from the mess of the union”.

      I’m no economist but I can still think clearly. Here’s an alternative take on Scotland retaining the pound.

      The Pound is as much the Kingdom of Scotland’s as it is the three country Kingdom of England’s. That was what was agreed in 1706/7 by the Treaty of Union that United ONLY those two Kingdoms and the name of the resultant union attests that what was united was two kingdoms.

      So let’s consider the matter in the actual legal terms of that union and not in the terms of the Establishment’s propaganda.

      The first legal truth is that the United Kingdom has never been a country. It is a clearly a bipartite United Kingdom.

      Thus the legal, “Status Quo Ante”, (the situation after the union ends), is a return to the pre-union status. Ergo – two, equally sovereign, independent kingdoms. Thus neither can legally claim the right to remain, “The United Kingdom”, because that no longer will exist.

      As for the assets and debts of the former United Kingdom then the correct procedure is to split both between the two and that is the only really contentious issue. On what basis are we to share the assets and debits?

      Will it be according to the proportions that prevailed at the time of union? It is, after all, the then defunct UK governments fault what the proportions have become now. Will it be on a population basis? That too is a result of the then defunct UK government and is quite different now than it was in 1706/7.

      Will it be according to what has been contributed by each kingdom? Scots have contributed a gross higher share of per capita GDP throughout the centuries and thus should be compensated accordingly.

      I could go on but the point is made that the actual legal situation is not what the Establishment in London would have you believe. They have propagated this propaganda since before the actual union but that doesn’t make it the legal fact.

      As to the shared currency – consider this – The Kingdom of England has no legal right to claim the Bank of England as belonging only to England.

      For a start the England that gave it’s name to the Bank, (a private independent company until 1946 and an independent company wholly owned by the UK since being nationalised in 1946).

      Belonged to all three countries of The Kingdom of England and not the country of England alone. Thus it became also the property of both kingdoms in 1706/7. Scotland, (the Kingdom), owns part of the Bank of England, (but again – what proportion)?

      No matter for here’s the rub. The United Kingdom government included in its assets the entire oil & gas revenues that 95% of came from Scotland’s territory and that will stop instantly on independence day, Now the UK as a whole is running a deficit and has massive national debt. Conversely the Scottish economy got nothing from oil & gas revenues and will, post independence get 95$ of those assets instantly.

      The Scottish pound will overnight shoot up in value while that of the Kingdom of England will sink like a stone. They must both co-operate to keep Sterling stable or both will suffer and the only gainers from NOT having a joint currency will be the Kingdom of England who will not then have exclusive ownership of the BofE in order to fiddle the currency.

      The legal reality is not that the United Kingdom will just trundle on without the Kingdom of Scotland.

      The fact that it is a United Kingdom tells the truth that when one kingdom leaves then both partner kingdoms become independent and Wales and N.,Ireland were both parts of the Kingdom of England long before 1706/7.

    159. Dr Jim says:

      @Scottie Dog

      I get that you don’t like the FM or you don’t like the financial advice you feel she’s being given and that’s OK you’re entitled

      I’m no expert on these financial things but I’m as good an expert on human behaviour as you can get and this is where your theories on finance fall down
      People vote for what they can understand and it’s simple

      During the Referendum Gordon Brown told Scottish pensioners they’d have no pensions, a big giant fat lie and we know it even the pensioners suspected it, but, the minute you shout RISK you’re as well shouting FIRE because after that nobody’s listening they’re running for the exit which in our case was a NO vote

      The NO side didn’t win because the economic side of their argument was better they won because they shouted FIRE and shouted it loudest and the telly and print media helped them do it

      Next Indy referendum that tactic is blown because both sides of the EU argument are overusing it and now it’s fooling nobody

      The vast majority of ordinary every day folk don’t give a monkeys about who the central bank is or isn’t, most of them don’t know their own MP MSP who the Foreign Secretary is or even what the treasury does, all they care about is “What’s going to change”? and if you can find the right way of reassuring people they’re safe from harm with no adverse effects to their weekly cash and most importantly get them to like you, you’re onto a winner

      Policies? We don wan your steenkin policees

      Politics is showbusiness whether some like it or not
      Elvis was the worlds biggest star he couldn’t sing worth shit but he looked good and he acted one hell of a nice guy
      so all the Mommy’s loved him, and show business is cluttered with hundreds of the same examples it’s all just the X Factor for ugly people

      Think of the politicians since Thatcher who have done well and those who haven’t and it’s the ones who put on the best show, being clever is a bonus

      Ed Miliband didn’t lose because of the SNP he lost because he was ugly and clumsy exactly the same as why Corbyn couldn’t win a knobbly knees in a dark room and the Labour spin people know it

      Remember when Nicola Sturgeon was crowned FM with the weight loss and the new shoes and the designer frocks and the new walk and the whole new style with the wave and the coy expression, that didn’t just happen, the whole thing was engineered and planned, remember the media reaction, they were frothy about it, did not like it but women did and the kids all love the FM and those were the voters we needed next time and she’s got them, now it’s time for the oldies and she’s already been on that by practically visiting every oldie type club and care home in the country
      she’s getting to be a dab hand at the carpet bowls as well
      It’s what the SNP do, they survey, they take census, opinion gather until they collate a strategy and then they take action

      All the FM is lacking are a couple of Dragons on her shoulder and soft focus lighting
      If you think I’m talking mince then think of why our wee country’s First Minister gets anywhere near being considered for most powerful woman award and that should tell you how much of an impact she’s had around the world

      Personality and Razzamatazz with a Bagpipe and a Saltire

      That’s what will win us the next Referendum and it’s likely this time the rest of the world will be on our side because she’s succeeded in her latest outing down south on English telly to make them hate us even more win OR lose the EU ref which was the point of the exercise

      Our FM is made of high grade Titanium Steel

    160. TJenny says:

      Two things that strike me about the remain campaign.

      1. I think that Cameron and the Westminster machine used our referendum as a dress rehearsal for the EU ref, and, after discovering that the too wee, too poor, too stupid Project Fear resonated with Scots and won the indy ref for the No side, they mistakenly thought it would work in England too. (And I do mean England as it is their votes that will decide the outcome).

      However – WE Scots have had this inferiority drummed into us for centuries, whereas the English have always had the opposite – the English rule the waves, the world and are far superior to any Johnny foreigner of whatever hue and regardless of from whence they hail. Ergo I think that the remain camp’s mantra will instil great indignation into the English and will be viewed as unpatriotic.

      Also – it is now very difficult after decades of the English MSM disparaging all things immigrant, to now turn round and convince the Daily Mail/Telegraph readers that all will be well immigration-wise if they vote remain.

      I do think that England will vote leave and it is therefore necessary that Scotland votes remain – otherwise the opportunity for a second indy ref will disappear quicker than snaw aff a dyke. So all Yessers, please think twice before voting out.

      Apols for long post – I blame Ian Brotherhood. 😉

    161. yesindyref2 says:

      Something I found very useful was printing off on A4 landscape, the last page – Annex A – of the FCWG Currecny Options paper:

      Anyway, a currency union whether formal or informal (sterlingisation) would I think only be temporary – 5 years – to ease the transition and make more time. And though Indy would have been achievable in Salmond’s timescale, there would be a lot of loose ends that would take 3 or 4 years to tie up. Meanwhile also the economies of Scotland and rUK are similar, and would take time to diverge. So interest rates and even currency issue wouldn’t really be important to newly iScotland feeling its way and taking small steps.

      The STUC had strong views about all the currency options, and raises some valid points. I think the STUC despite its neutral stance, was broadly favourable to Indy, though its preferred option may have been Devo-Max. In its first paper it was sympathetic to the idea of a formal currency union, with a desire for our own currency in a few years. But it did change a bit in its amended paper:

      Ironically some of the arguments it uses in this amended paper (amended because of the increasing likelihood of sterlingisation), are arguments used by Unoinists – but that doesn’t make them invalid 🙂

    162. TJenny says:

      BrianMcHugh – the second link I posted is still working for me, and clearly cearc too,

      although the Rev stated that he couldn’t access it on an ipad – not teccy so don’t have answer – soz – ’cause you’re missing a wee treat. ;-(

    163. ronnie anderson says:

      @ T Jenny Big waves the vidio,s ah stoater

    164. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Yeah, Scotland really does own the Pound as much as the rUK does. Here’s a thing. All the Unionists will tell us the Pound has no value, it’s not an asset, so since the Pound is kept by the Continuing state – rUK – then Scotland doesn’t get a penny for our pound in compensation. It’s why the UK Gov propoganda machine at taxpayers expense including all us YES voters, kept calling itself the cUK, hoping we wouldn’t notice. Well, duh.

      There is a problem with this. There are hundreds, thousands of people in the City (of London) that trade the Pound in one way or another, people use the pound as a safe haven, or not as last week when the pound dropped, so it’s a commodity, and guess what, commodities have value. And if there’s value, then partners share the value. NIESR in their report mostly ducked the issue, just noting that it might have actual asset value.

      Basically though I agree with Salmond, in principle at least. The rUK can have its pound all to itself, for the sum of around £50-60 billion. Which is by a pure coincidence, about the the historical share of the UK national debt Scotland would take, going back 30 years.

    165. Gary45% says:

      Indy Ref 2 on the way, because if Boris the Moron becomes PM, there will be anarchy.
      The man is an embarrassment, so its either Scotland leaving the UK, or another general Election.
      The Pig Fuc*er is bad, but the rest of the Tories are worse.
      Engerland smashing up the place!
      What’s New????

    166. Macart says:


      Good to see you posting and great link. *Waves* 🙂

    167. TJenny says:

      Ronnie, Hi – glad you liked it too, it really is quite fab and a shame if others can’t access. Maybe a Winger who tweets could contact the originator and ask about access prob? Where’s Paula Rose when you need her and for that matter Ian Brotherhood, who, after commenting that he hasn’t heard from me for ages, disappears when I reply. 🙁

      Maybe he’s away for his supper.

    168. Macart says:


      Oh wait.

      Link loads fine, but it asks for a sign in.

    169. Effijy says:

      Just watched the EBC News to have a laugh at their latest
      propaganda. Wish I didn’t bother.

      Old Pig Shagger Cameron announces, as part of a factual and frank debate, that anyone voting to leave the EU, will lose their pension, the NHS Funds will be cut, and basically you will be required to curl up and die the day after Brexit.

      They are desperate and are now broadcasting the same scaremongering diatribe that won them the terrified votes
      of the senior citizen in Scotland’s stich-upferendum.

    170. TJenny says:

      Macart – thanks, it’s always good to be remembered whilst still alive. 😉 What’s your view of my utterings posted at 10.55?

    171. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –


      I’ll happily take the hit if it means you’re around.

      FWIW, I agree with all you wrote above.

      Cameron et al have made the cardinal mistake of treating Scotland/Scots as their predecessors did. They simply do not understand what has happened here, and Cameron’s calamitous Sep 19th statement about EVEL proved it.

      The current behaviour of English supporters in Marseille provides a host of metaphors – the central and salient fact is that these characters, be they politicians or ‘football fans’, suffer from a narcissistic superiority complex which insulates them from reality.

      The Scottish indyref movement is a reality which their cocoon cannot accommodate, and we will never negotiate any kind of deal with them by using reason and decency – they respond to neither because they think such behaviour denotes ‘weakness’.

    172. Valerie says:

      @Dr Jim. 10.54

      I know you are a professional, but as an amateur people watcher, that all made me smile.

      Just a couple of comments. I think her jewellery is classic, petite and understated. It won’t overwhelm the overall impression, and it won’t intimidate. As a manager in Homeless, I spoke to a couple of females, asking them to consider toning down their expensive jewellery, as we dealt with people without a bean.

      I think after working with Alex for so long, she has definitely picked up his head jerk, when emphasising a point in her speeches. You see it at FMQ, especially when she is a bit annoyed.

      I think she has her clothes made by that small Edinburgh business, and they are dressing her well for her shape.

      Presentation is everything.

    173. Ian Brotherhood at 11.31

      Fine post. They do not understand

    174. TJenny says:

      Ian B – and it’s exactly that misguided instilled superiority that I think will ultimately see England vote leave. We’re still living in interesting times. Have you managed to listen to the Wee Black Book video? It’s Superb. 🙂

    175. One for the English football supporters in Marseille tonight

    176. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TJenny –

      I’ve tried, and I keep getting ‘This Video Is Private’.

    177. heedtracker says:

      French media’s reporting demands that UEFA expel England next week, regardless if the violence stops. Russia too.

      If England are kicked out next week, Brexit odds shorten and it puts this kind of tory Project Fearing into perspective

    178. Paula Rose says:

      Waves at the fab TJenny Hi doll xx

    179. TJenny says:

      Paula Rose – well hello to you too, howzit hon? 🙂

      So have you managed to access the fab Wee Black Book video with tunes, and if so, any ideas on why those who can’t, er, can’t?

    180. stephen says:

      Heedtracker @ 12.00
      Your link is from 1st April

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @heedtracker –


      That piece looks like some ghastly satire.

      The very idea that ‘football’ could cause such shenanigans?

      Oh well, never mind, let’s have a poll of Marseille residents after they’ve cleared all the broken glass and hosed away the piss and vomit, as Mancunians had to do after ‘Rangers’ had visited.

      Better Together.

    182. I can watch England play with the sound off. They played really well tonight. It’s the assumptive arrogance of the commentary that made me punch the air as we went into extra time.

      Noticed the English team has lots of of immigrants

    183. Tom Platt says:

      O/T.Has anyone seen a more misleading headline than this one in the Scottish Daily Mail printed on the day after the Holyrood debate in which the Tories lost their bid to scupper the named person legislation?

    184. Macart says:


      RE: 10.55 post

      Couldn’t agree more. Been saying for some time that what they’re dealing with is a runaway narrative. They and Labour have created this narrative and used the press to manipulate opinion for decades.The right and further right of both parties used the press to denigrate and alienate significant demographics to their own advantage as and when.

      We KNOW how that feels on a very personal level.

      Now? Now they reap what they sow.

    185. heedtracker says:

      stephen says:
      12 June, 2016 at 12:11 am
      Heedtracker @ 12.00
      Your link is from 1st April

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      12 June, 2016 at 12:17 am
      @heedtracker –


      That piece looks like some ghastly satire.

      It’s not good satire or April fools, if it actually happens. UEFA are debating England expulsion from this tournament now.

    186. Dr Jim says:


      People behaviour and show business is indeed my area of uslessness (if that’s a word) in the world
      Although retired from the clamour and grits of it all now it has paid my mortgage and taken me to far flung nightmarish places all over, from horrible little dirty dives to very posh big dirty dives in every city in Britain to places that look exactly the same in foreign cities as well I have been to many many places and countries I have never seen in daylight

      I’ve mixed with them all and they’re all the same as me and you rich or poor alike except more dishonest,
      I don’t know a single soul in the business who actually likes their audience, they only enjoy being in control of that audience, and there is a great pleasure to be had from that but it’s a bad drug and the only friends you ever have are other people in the same business because no one else understands what it’s like

      Politics is the same business but unfortunately it does require a little more glamming up than the show version
      A bit like when Joey Tribiani says “Some of you people are going to have to get a lot better looking”

      If I were the FMs advisor I would have done no different to what she did although I’d be giving her a row for putting on a few pounds lately, some might think it’s sexist but if it were a man the advice would be the same

      Look at Davie Cameron, not really a handsome man but he has regular facials, he’s almost bald at the back but a good hairdresser cuts his barnet so that most of the time nobody notices, Davie’s suits are immaculate, shoes gleam and as often as possible a powder blue shirt to exude confidence and bring out the enhanced tan

      Even our own big John Swinney has had a make over, big John has hair, but it’s wispy so to look more slick and professional he goes for the Jean Luc Picard and the smart suits, he used to wear Tweed and woolly stuff
      You don’t see anybody in the SNP not wearing the right gear for the right occasion

      As you rightly say Valerie Presentation is everything

    187. Iain More says:

      Well if UEFA does ban Ingerland as they should then EU Referendum is settled. I think Ingerland will go Brexit apeshit. I am expecting that UEFA will be totally gutless though.

    188. DerekM says:

      @ Robert yes thats correct,at some point when we do get indy there will be a 2-3 years transition as we negotiate ownership of shared assets adding a currency change into that negotiation period will just make it more awkward as sterling is on the table,the markets will get scared and we would be a sitting duck for a crash devaluation which our good pals in London would flame,they have kept prices in Scotland overvalued for exactly that,they know fine it will take us 4-5 years to balance that keeping us tied to sterling so it doesnt crash on its butt,call it the last act of westminsters wrath on us an English safety net.

      Though its a bit wishful thinking considering the yanks are about to remove Londons money laundering operation back to the good old USA,well when you are looking at a 70 trillion plus banking crash,the end of the 30 year bullmarket massive debt and the chance of losing the dollar as the petro and world reserve currency,its every neo liberal for themselves.

    189. Dezcore says:

      Is it not the case that the requirement to follow Eu laws is encased in the devolution of a Scottish parliament. Wouldn’t that require that the UK repeal devolution to “take back control” so to speak?

    190. TJenny says:

      Macart – and how will they turn the Out vote around? They cannot offer any last minute kind of ‘Vow’, as the EU is not theirs to control. I think they will find themselves hoist by their own petard. I’m sure that after todays English football supporters street warfare, the EU may be only too glad to see the back of the old GB.

    191. DerekM says:

      @ Dezcore

      Yes that is why we must move our fight into a third parliament the EU,Brexit in England and Remain in Scotland opens that door for us but it also opens the rabid britnats door to try and impose their rule on us even try and remove the parliament,as long as we hold that magic EU card we can tell them to fuck right off.

      Will the EU sell us out i guess we will find out but they would need to be mental not to want us,is it the end if it all goes wrong who knows how bad can a tory get and the lies they have spun about the EU has made English nationalism rise they might believe all that sponger stuff and kick us out ,well they are pretty stupid as electorates go.

      English independence from Scotland its not fair those poor English have to look after the refugee country to the north and them blaming us all the time and not wanting our British values barbarians.

    192. Robert Louis says:

      Chris cartoon, is very timely. I find it almost laughable the way the narrow minded brexiters talk of ‘taking back control’. I mean seriously, what a joke.

      It is all very well people in Southern England saying they want out, but I think leaving the EU will decimate the Scottish tourist industry. Right now, it is easy for EU folks to just hop on a plane for the weekend to Scotland, but if we are dragged out of the EU, suddenly it might become more of a chore for EU tourists.

      Scotland would have zero control over any NEW restrictions that could be imposed on tourists visiting by the English parliament at Westminster.

      For that and many other reasons, such as I do think being in the EU is a good thing for Scotland, helping to prevent outright abuse by London, I will be voting to stay in the EU.

      Scotland has few means of mitigating damaging decisions by London. The EU, and its democratic regulatory framework, helps to protect us from what is rapidly becoming a rather extremist and xenophobic London.

      I do think people in England are being told what can only be described as a pack of lies, to get them to vote out.

    193. bjsalba says:

      I’d like to add to JLTs response to Velofello.

      The group which meted out the appalling treatment to Greece was not an actual official EU body although it was conducted by EU officials. Yanis Varoufakis has described what and how it was done.

      If the EU officials were culpable of anything it was that they did not force the group to conform to EU standards in its dealing with Greece. I hope they learned from the experience.

    194. Another Union Dividend says:

      Right wing English xenophobia will be increased by events in Marseilles.

      Russian fans have as bad a reputation as England’s but if you spend 35 years causing mayhem at every tournament you become a target.

      Russia already got suspended six points deduction for fans behaviour in 2012.

      Hope that Wales and Slovakia qualify for the sake of the competition.

      Daily Telegraph sports reporter tweeted that after match trouble kicked off when English fans threw objects into the Russian section.

      Ben Rumsby ?@ben_rumsby 10h10 hours ago

      Trouble has broken out at the final whistle. Objects being thrown by #ENG section into #RUS end and fans now advancing. #EURO2016

      Apologists for English fans claiming there were Russian fans wearing England tops before the game.

      Last night women on Sky newspaper review kept wondering why police allowed fans to drink from early morning and perhaps the BRITS can’t hold their drink as much as others.

    195. mumsyhugs says:

      Hi TJenny! I was just thinking about you on Friday! Welcome ‘home’! 🙂

    196. bjsalba says:

      @ JLT

      You said:

      I do believe that most folk are annoyed at the way that some bureaucrats may be unelected but have a great say in how laws are implemented throughout the EU.

      Can you tell my the source that backs up that assertion? Considering the very different ways directives are implemented in the EU, I find that difficult to believe without good evidence.

    197. Dr Jim says:

      One or two of these England players are good enough to get on the bench for Wales

      That’s one for Alan Shearer

      He He

    198. Almannysbunnet says:

      If Nigel Farage is to be believed the EU will stop receiving £350,000,000 pounds a week from the UK and still be welcomed with open arms to partake in their market.

      Name me one social club, golf club, organisation that allows its members to stop paying their dues but still come in and enjoy the facilities. Bollocks I say.

      Little Englanders think the world will be at their feet as they are “unshackled” from Europe. They may find that the world will dump them and punish their hundreds of years of arrogance.

    199. John H. says:

      Farage on the Andrew Marr Show stated that because of immigrants, people “all over Britain” have to wait for two weeks to see a GP. I can see mine within a day.

      Earlier Dame Helena Kennedy said that there had been trouble last night with “British” football fans. Marr said nothing.

    200. Grendel says:

      Papko says:
      11 June, 2016 at 8:37 pm
      ” I’ve recently met a French woman stacking shelves in a supermarket, a Spaniard serving coffee and a Polish man working in a bar serving beer. Are we to seriously believe that unemployed Scots don’t want these jobs? ”

      Where in Scotland do you live ? and what century ?

      If “unemployed Scots ” had a days work in them , they would be working .
      I have just driven through Leven in Fife , there is a farm employing 300 foreign fruit pickers, within a mile of “the most acute poverty and food banks etc”

      It may well be that doing a job, “will affect” their claim”, or “they will be only a few pounds better off”, basicly life on benefits is just fine , and there is no need to get a suntan , picking strawberries.

      Papko, you are Ruth Davidson and I claim my £5!

      Where I live is irrelevant. I travel a fair bit and on my travels I have met those people, and more.

      If picking strawberries in Leven was a viable employment option I’m sure people would take it up. But it’s not, it’s seasonal. And people are allowed to do some work while on benefits, so maybe they are actually working there? I can’t find information on those statistics.

      You say that 300 foreign fruit pickers are employed there. I would ask if the company advertises locally, or further afield. A company that operates near me packing vegetables went from employing a large amount of people from the local area to the stage where local people cannot find employment there. At the same time they bus in a considerable number of foreign workers. I’d ask people to consider if this is an unwritten company policy, or are the locals just, as Papko suggests, to lazy to work and happy on benefits.

      Incidentally, the main website for sourcing picking jobs is which shows a nice union flag next to the link for jobs in England. There are no Scottish jobs listed, nor is there an option to find them, with the choices being limited to Northern, Midland and Southern England.

    201. G says:

      Cameron on Marr, when asked why Norway is doing so well despite being outside the EU: “Norway has as much oil as us and only 4 million people.”

    202. Effijy says:

      The Sunday Redcoat is fully supporting the English Thugs.
      It was those Bad Russians that started Everything!

      A source close to the French Secret Service, so we can’t tell you who they are, lol, assures us that some of these
      Russian fans were in fact SNP Card carrying members.

      Others paid £60 for an official England Top, the team that they don’t support, just to pass blame for hooliganism on
      to innocent Morris Dancers who are on tour.

      He goes on to say that intelligence proves that Russians have spent the last 2 years perfecting Cockney, Geordie, and Scouse accents just to fool the media on their true

      A palace spokesman has also revealed that the Russians have acquired French Riot Police uniforms in order to again attack those from a Green and pleasant land.

      Prince Phillip has burned a rare copy of Tolstoy’s War & Peace, and is watching events unfold while wearing the Duke of Wellington’s uniform and medals.

      Betty was quite attracted to the uniform, but she was repelled by the comment “Not tonight Josephine”.
      Do you think it’s your Birthday?

      If it’s good enough for BUM !

    203. cearc says:

      For anyone who didn’t see any of this guys succinct tweets yesterday and some excellent retweeted replies. Go and have a look, well worth it.

      Buzz feed summary at

    204. Katie says:

      Yes G. I heard that too. Now how many people are in scotland? Need we say more?

    205. Breeks says:

      I dunno…. All this carry on in Marseille, 3 days of skirmishes, the air filled with bottles, tear gas and foul language, hundreds of knife wielding balaclava clad Russian militia chasing English fans away from their beers… Riot police, water cannon, … Two men fighting for their lives, dozens more needing treatment….

      And 6 arrests? 6? True, some reports say several arrests, which may or may not be 6, but for all the reported carnage going on, it just doesn’t seem like many arrests.

      Is it just me? Or does something not quite add up?

    206. Effijy says:

      Wee Ruthie Krankie now appearing on the Peston Show, ITV 1.

      She starts by upholding Cameron’s scaremongering story about pensions being vulnerable, if OAP’s dare to vote Brexit. lol

    207. Clydebuilt says:

      “If unemployed Scots had a days work in them”……. Close to where I live an Asda opened up about 10 yrs ago……. Headlined in the local paper, around 200 people applied for every job…….

    208. scotspine says:

      BBC Jockshire reports “A number of England fans have been hospitalised after clashes with Police and there are reports that a British man has to be resucitated”…..

      I cant believe (actually, I absolutely can) that a) they are spinning the story to garner sympathy for the thugs and b) Since when does an unconscious England can thug have to become British? And get my sympathy for ending up in his predicament at his own hands?

    209. Lollysmum says:

      Hi T.jenny *waves*

      Here’s the Wee Black Book vid. Hugh must have taken down the initial tweets about it as it didn’t work for all.

      Enjoy-well worth the watch & the music’s not bad either 🙂

    210. galamcennalath says:


      Aye, but every Scottish Unionist and Greater England Imperialist will tell you that the oil ‘we’ have is quite different oil from the stuff the Norwegians have.

      Their oil is good and wholesome, ours is bad bad bad …..

    211. MacRocker says:

      Dal Riata says @ 11 June, 2016 at 9:51 pm

      Love the wiki entry for Ten German Bombers:

      Fans of Rangers F.C also regularly sing “Ten German Bombers”, replacing the word “England” with “Britain”.

      The sections of the Gers fans that sing this and similar songs must really have to go through mental hoops to justify the fact that the English football fans they see themselves as brothers to don’t see themselves as British but English.

    212. Grendel says:

      “Grouse Beater says:
      11 June, 2016 at 8:57 pm
      Grendel: “Gee, no, I never thought of that.”

      Low sarcasm doesn’t count as a political solution.”

      No, but it can be satisfying in the short term… 😉

      Perhaps you missed the point when I said “The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving.”

      There are countries straining to join the EU ‘as is’. Their joining is an endorsement of the conditions under which they join. We are having a referendum to decide whether to remain in the EU ‘as is’. A reformed EU is neither on the table or likely, especially when members old and new endorse or re-affirm their commitment to it.

      The one thing that would make the EU look seriously at reforming itself would be if countries (plural) started leaving. If you have a queue to get in, 27 countries stable and one wanting out then it can be said that the one leaving is out of step with the rest and it’s probably best they find a solution which suits their perceived needs.

      That’s not to say I am endorsing Leave, it’s just my assessment of the situation.

    213. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 11 June, 2016 at 11:08 pm:

      ” …
      There is a problem with this. There are hundreds, thousands of people in the City (of London) that trade the Pound in one way or another …”

      The legal status of the pound Sterling is that it is an, “International Trading Currency”. As you correctly say it is traded in and thus is a commodity. No one needs permission to use it in any way they see fit.

      The point, though, is that The Treaty, (& both Acts of Union), legally assure that the only two Kingdoms that comprise the United Kingdom have equality in regard to the Pound as long as they remain as a united kingdom. It also means that, “The Status Quo Ante”, when the two split up reverts to the situation in force before the union took effect.

      It also means neither kingdom can claim to be the continued United Kingdom after they break up. It is common sense really – if there are only two partners in a union then there cannot be a union when the part company.

      As to the Bank of England – it has never in its entire history ever belonged to England, either as a three country Kingdom or as a country.

      It began as a private company and was granted a Kingdom of England Royal Charter but remained a private company titled, “The Governor and Company of the Bank of England”.

      It continued as this even after the Treaty of Union. The term, “Bank of England”, just signifies that the Kingdom of England used that bank. Thus in 1706/7 it actually became the bank used by the new United Kingdom but remained a private company.

      That remained so until 1946 when the United Kingdom Parliament, (Not the Kingdom of England), nationalised the Bank but left it still as an independent company wholly owned by the UK taxpayers.

      In May 1997 the Government, (Gordon Brown), gave the Bank responsibility for setting interest rates to meet the Government’s stated inflation target. This was enshrined in the 1998 Bank of England Act.

      The Financial Services Act 2012 established an independent Financial Policy Committee (FPC), a new Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) as a subsidiary of the Bank, and created new responsibilities for the supervision of financial market infrastructure providers. The reforms came into force on 1 April 2013.

      There is absolutely no legal doubt that:-

      (a)- The Bank Of England is a Joint United Kingdom owned company and as such is a joint asset of the two partner kingdoms that formed that United Kingdom.

      (b) – The same applies to both the Pound Stealing and the present UK control over the BofE.

      The only problems concern the terms of how to allocate those assets when the only two constituent parts of the bi-partite United Kingdom divorce each other.

      There simple cannot be a remainder United Kingdom when the only two constituent kingdoms split up.

      It is all just Establishment propaganda that claims otherwise.

      The facts are legally simple.

      The term, “United Kingdom”, plainly describes a kingdom formed from two equally sovereign kingdoms and it never mentions countries in the entire treaty document.

      Furthermore it is the Royal Realms that were united and this is so because of English law that has as a core tenet that, “Once becoming sovereign a sovereign cannot legally renounce their sovereignty”.

      This is the legal reason why The Parliament of the Kingdom of England of 1688 did not just declare the three country kingdom of England a republic. To do so would have been illegal. So the Kingdom of England, (England, Wales & Ireland), deposed the monarch who also wore the crown of the Kingdom of Scotland, and told King Billy & Queen Mary they would not be invited to become sovereign monarchs of The kingdom od England unless they delegated their sovereignty to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England. This could not affect the still independent Kingdom of Scotland.

      Thus the Parliament of the Kingdom of England became Their Majesty’s Parliament of the Kingdom of England but Scotland remained independent for another 104 years and the Treaty makes it clear that Scottish law, education and religion remain independent all because the monarchy remains sovereign in The Kingdom of England while the People of Scotland remain sovereign in Scotland.

      Basically though I agree with Salmond, in principle at least. The rUK can have its pound all to itself, for the sum of around £50-60 billion. Which is by a pure coincidence, about the the historical share of the UK national debt Scotland would take, going back 30 years.

    214. Papadox says:

      @G 9:54am
      Cameron hung by his own petard. Mervin King stated (after the referendum) of course Scotland would be allowed to use the £. The U.K. Pensions are amongst the lowest in Europe.

      WESTMINSTER/ESTABLISHMENT a bunch of total liars and con artists, lies broadcast by the EBC and MSM to terrify the elderly.

    215. gus1940 says:

      Isn’t it amazing?

      According to our wonderfully balanced media it would appear that following the Great Marseilles Massacre of Innocent English Fans not a single Russian or Frenchman has suffered so much as a scratch.

    216. Ken500 says:

      Gov Pension are paid from current taxes. It has nothing to do with the EU. Apart from raising enough to pay pensions.

      Davidson sites oil prices but no mention of the 60/80% Tory tax regime when prices had fallen 75%. Now 40% tax rate.

      The migration crisis in Europe was caused by Westminster bombing the Middle East.

      Fruit, vegetable picking is seasonal, physically hard for older people. The workers stay on the job.

    217. schrodingers cat says:

      Iain More says:
      Just got a message from a Russian Lady friend, I think I will marry her!

      Hi Iain
      I’m a millionaire Nigerian princess……..

    218. Orri says:

      State pensions might be covered by the same regulations as private ones if Scotland were independent whilst both the rUK and it were still in the UK. For private pension funds that cross a border there has to be sufficient funds to cover it. Post independence the only way to avoid that would be that the current UK pension is paid by Westminster and funded by the rUK just as it’s paid to exPats now. Scots would then start earning credits and paying into an independent scotish pension.

    219. Macart says:

      @G & Katie

      Cameron actually said in reply to a question on Norway’s success: “Norway has as much oil as us and only 4 million people.”

      He’ll come to regret saying those words on national telly.

    220. Onwards says:

      Norway has over 5 million population now. Unlike Scotland at a standstill, it doubled in size over the last century.

      The same point applies to any relatively small nation with large natural resources of any kind.

      It will be good to see all these quotes come back to bite the yoons in the arse at the next indyref.
      We could have a huge ‘taking back control’ compilation.

    221. Grouse Beater says:

      Grendel: “Perhaps you missed the point when I said “The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving.”

      That way lies chaos.

      In any event, we’d have to reinstate a whole load of benefits to allow the likes of BMW to keep investing in their British factories, and TATA in Jaguar and Land Rover, otherwise they will go elsewhere, like Dyson, off to China, or South Korea.

      I do not want Scotland left solely at the whim of a corrupt state called England, a racist nation beholden to the USA. Do I make my point clear?

      More here:

    222. yesindyref2 says:

      The “rUK” is in a desperate position if Scotland insists on dissolution of the UK, as it is perfectly entitled to do. For Scotland the position is plain and easy, we’re a sovereign nation and go our own way, called “Scotland”.

      But for the “rUK” with dissolution, the position is very unclear. Some call it EWNI, but in reality it’s EW+?NI?, as the Treaty of Union with Ireland came in 1801, and automatically gets swept aside by a dissolution of the 1707 Treaty. So what of the status of NI, which is its own country after 1922? I think it could decide to ask Scotland to go with us, or to go with the “EW”, but would need a new Treaty!

      For the rUK, Separation is OK as we both inherit whatever Treaties after 1707 we want to reaffirm, and Secession is by far the easiest for the “rUK”, as then it continues, it’s just that Scotland left the room. But for me, that would come at a price for Scotland, and that’s a price the rUK would have to pay IN FULL for Scotland to agree to it.

      Realpolitik would be different, but the legal niceties would still need to be observed in the paperwork. The key to a successful and legal conclusion is agreement, and in this I think and always thought, that Scotland has a huge upper hand.

    223. Mick DIAMOND says:

      Macrocker 10.18am. Your not wrong there, ive seen england fans take the p**s out of rangers fans, and laugh at their ‘quote. ‘Mickey mouse’ football league. But they still love their ‘abusers.(scratching my head).

    224. JLT says:

      @bjsalba says:

      Can you tell my the source that backs up that assertion? Considering the very different ways directives are implemented in the EU, I find that difficult to believe without good evidence.

      A bit of a strange question, but that’s one of the key arguments that folk are arguing about; a perception of corruption. While focus might be on economics and immigration, some people are arguing that the EU is corrupt. As part of my argument, I added this from a BBC source in one of my posts above. Hope this explains my point a bit better.

    225. Grendel says:

      “Grouse Beater says:
      12 June, 2016 at 11:37 am
      Grendel: “Perhaps you missed the point when I said “The only way to force the EU to actually reform itself is by leaving.”

      That way lies chaos.”

      I don’t disagree. Chaotic or not though, my point stands. The EU will not make any major changes to itself until it is necessary to hold it together.

      Again, I am not advocating that course of action, just pointing it out.

    226. Orri says:

      The acts of union only concern parliaments. The 1801 simply moved it into a joint session with those of the kingdoms of England and Scotland. Technically prior to that it was part of the Kingdom of England much like the Isle of Man and the Chanel Islands. Independence wouldn’t automatically change the parliamentary arrangements of the Kingdom of England other than ending the joint sessions with the Kingdom of Scotland.

    227. Orri says:

      Replacing the “English RAF” with “British RAF” might, to the uninformed, be assumed to have originated from a scots nationalist. Mind you a lot of our fliers were polish. Aals as far as Clydebank was concerned only 2 German Bombers were downed.

    228. Grouse Beater says:

      Grendel: The EU will not make any major changes to itself until it is necessary to hold it together.

      You imply it’s a monolithic entity. It is a group of nation states, some administrations experiencing serious problems with their electorate selling the EC (not EU) to them as a take it or leave it package.

      The crisis has only arisen because of the thousands of migrants knocking at Europe’s borders, our doing in successive Middle-East wars and drone bombings, that and a terrible drought in Syria. The EU is doing its financial best to mitigate that cost and potential disaster.

      But in some regard migration is a diversion. Social democracy, not just its European variant but others as well, has been under severe attack through the neoliberal period of the past generation, which has been harmful to the general population almost everywhere while benefiting tiny elites. That’s what Westminster aims to protect, not you or I from so-called European bureaucracy.

      You can hear it in ninety per cent of their obsessional utterances, It’s all ‘business this, business that’.

      European unity has broken down addressing a human catastrophe that is in substantial part the result of Western crimes. The burden has fallen on the few who are willing, at least temporarily, to do more than lift a finger, like Sweden and Germany, the very nations England derides. Many other nations closed their borders.

      The EU membership debate rests almost exclusively on avoiding refugees and migrants. Without that element it would get reduced to, shall we join the Euro one day?

      Personally, I regard European integration as a major political advance.

    229. MacRocker says:

      Mick DIAMOND @ 12 June, 2016 at 12:01 pm

      Browsing Youtube looking at clips of the Engerlandish football thugs, I’m being clear here to differentiate them from decent ordinary English football fans, there is just too much a similarity between them and the behaviour of those who prop up the stands of Ibrox. You could argue that it is the same behaviour of any nations hooliganism but in this case with the Engerlandish and the plastic Engerlanders of Rangers, they are united with the same bigoted outlook of Big N Nationalism that others in this forum and others have described.

      There is much talk of anti-English feeling in Scotland and I suspect most of it is done by these Plastic Englerlanders when laughed at by ordinary English people whom they are trying to emulate yet doesn’t share one ounce of the bigotry and hatred they have.

    230. I am not one to have sympathy for English football fans and yes their behaviour down the years has been disgraceful .There are a lot of decent English fans who have gone to Euros to see the football and soak up the atmosphere however

      I know its very easy to think they deserve what happened to them last night as payback for their behaviour down the years .We all know that most English teams have organised groups of casuals crews or firms and so do a number of Scottish clubs the Russians and other Eastern European countries take it to a different level,The English fans were attacked by a group of hardcore Russian hooligans,These groups are basically right wing militias more akin to the brown shirts in Nazi Germany than a your average firm of football casuals.

      These gangs train for fighting they practice martial arts they are extremely fit and dangerous.If you have seen some of videos doing the rounds on social media they are not for the squeamish ,the Russians are battering England fans and some of the assaults are extremely vicious.
      I read a quote by one Russian hooligan who desribed the English fans as girls too fat too unfit and too drunk to fight.

      I am not exaggerating if Russia meet Poland Croatia or the unthinkable Ukraine ,the French may need the army to maintain order.

      Is just sad because the Welsh and the Irish and the North of Ireland’s team supporters are having a great time and mixing with locals and opposition fans .The Welsh fans singing their anthem yesterday gave me goosebumps .Look for the video of the Irish fans doing a huge row row the boat down one of the main street in Paris makes you jealous Scotland are not there

      Although they are certainly not blameless and yes you do feel that they finally got what was coming to them last night ,the England fans were more sinned against last night

      Anyway when that last minute header hit the back of the net ,I was reminded how much joy football can bring .Come on Wales you can put England as good as out on Thursday, you can do it!

    231. heedtracker says:

      I am not one to have sympathy for English football fans and yes their behaviour down the years has been disgraceful .There are a lot of decent English fans who have gone to Euros to see the football and soak up the atmosphere however

      They went berserk for 3 days, then they played Russia and your points start to make some sense. EUFA have only acted now as its violence in the stadium at the match they organised.

      Three days of English fan serious violence in Marseilles is being airbrushed out of teamGB for obvious reasons. They have violently assaulted many people in Marseilles but when they are assaulted by Russian fans, that’s all we hear about. It UKOK stinks.

    232. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun making even bigger fools of themselves. Every way you can say it, without saying it, “Its UEFA whats causing English fan violence in France.”

      Britnat hackdom’s been stretched way beyond its capabilities these days.

    233. heedtracker says:

      Oh and rancid The Graun blame French riot cops too

      “But serious questions should also be asked of French police who seemed intent on indiscriminate dispersal through teargas rather than controlling the situation by the tactic of picking off particular troublemakers that has worked at recent tournaments”

      All of this Britnat Graun rubbish, is almost exactly the same style of BBC Scotland led Scottish hack’s reportage of Rangers and Hibs final just a few weeks back. Funny that.

    234. Clapper57 says:

      heedtracker says: “Three days of English fan serious violence in Marseilles is being airbrushed out of teamGB for obvious reasons. They have violently assaulted many people in Marseilles but when they are assaulted by Russian fans, that’s all we hear about. It UKOK stinks”.

      Yeh heedtracker exactly, all violence by English fans PRE Russian incident most DEFINITELY being airbrushed out.

      Also weird how when the Russian team equalised and what should have been a joyous moment for their fans that instead of celebrating they went for the English fans….perhaps reacting to what was reported ( not widely of course ) that English fans were throwing bottles at them….which seems more plausible if you look at it from an English thug’s warped mentality…thinking your team had won ….then shit…the other team scores in the last moments….so they do what they have been doing since they arrived in Marseilles …throw bottles…have you seen the streets of Marseilles?

      It will be interesting to see how the English oops sorry BRITISH fans behave when they move on to where the Welsh fans are …no doubt if there is any trouble it will be the Welsh that are to blame for goading the poor wee English fans…and the media will ensure they always state ‘Welsh’ NOT ‘British’ when they report their lies.

      Me think they do protest too much…….what’s new…First class Whingers !!!!

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top