Readers’ lives
We’ve already run a small collection of our own ham-fisted snapshots, but here are just a few of our favourite pics of yesterday’s rally in Edinburgh that were taken and sent to us by Wings Over Scotland readers.
Click all the pics for larger versions.
A shot from the main body of the crowd.
And a nice panorama from way back at the fringes.
This, we think, is the furthest-away corner, on the south-eastern edge behind the National Monument, where another video screen was set up.
This one is from near the opposite corner. You can just see the Wings flag dead centre, but the impressive thing is being able to see at the left-hand side how far the crowd stretches back.
And here’s a side view.
Thanks to the many fine men and women who took turns carrying the Wings flag.
We must confess, we’re not entirely sure why there was a sizeable group of people on Arthur’s Seat as well. But we salute their fitness.
Not much longer to wait now.
Though again, one of the most striking things about the event was how many other nations (and past and future nations) were represented.
Looking north from somewhere near the back.
And slightly further along.
“We’re going to win, aren’t we, Dad?”
link to facebook.com
more pics from the rear here. We couldn’t get close to the stage.
My respect for the elderly who where there that day. Climbed up the hill to show their support for scotland!
Brilliant Rev – great shots. So many nations represented, inspiring.
Glad to hear you had some help holding the flag.
(Think that 4th shot may be the northern side of the hill as Easter Road is in the background.)
Hey Rev, this is my technical dummy moment of the year, probably.
How can I send you some pics of the rally? I have a handful of good ones, including a nice shot of the wings flag pre-march.
**Waits cowering in the corner for simplistically stupid answer**
Methinks that is Annabelle Ewing in the bottom one.
“(Think that 4th shot may be the northern side of the hill as Easter Road is in the background.)”
It is, but I’m not sure there’s anywhere high enough on the northern side. I think it might be the south side, but looking northeast towards the Hibs ground. There was no screen at the back of the north side.
Yup – that’s Annabelle
Passed a very lame middle-aged man near the start of the Hill, he was only able to take seven or eight steps before having to lean on the wall. Don’t know if he made it, but it was heart-wrenching. Anyone know who I mean?
Here is an aerial shot.
Re the folk on Arthurs Seat… maybe that’s the 8000 the BBC were reporting?? hehehe!!
ianbritherhood – I think I know who you mean, he did get up there with the help of friends. Thank god for that wall. I am recovering from a stroke that happend last year and it was a blessing to have it there. A young policeman asked if I was ok! Blimey, changed days since the poll tax usually they were a little more robust with me. The advantage of the policemen looking younger I suppose. 🙂
Many, many more people – including me – would have said helo if they could have found you! I was too late at the Albanach evidently 🙁
Note for next year – We’re going to need a bigger flag!
Well done everybody. Brilliant day.
Another one of the great things about the Rally was the lack of evidence of the SNP. Working locally with their Yes groups has made them realise that they are not the only fish in the pond and that Yes is miles better for all the other folk in it.
Its not Salmond’s referendum, its not even a political referendum, its the people’s referendum.
A strange co-incidence struck me. Both marches were held when Hibs had a home game. Hibs didn’t lose either time. Just saying
Someone made the point that seeing as England’s population is 50 million and ten times bigger than Scotland’s, the equivalent rally would have saw 200,000 to 300,000 attend If held in London.
Made me think just how impressive the turnout was.
Nae wonder Ah could’ny find yie, whit a wee toaty flag! Bigger wan needed fir next year.
Handclapping – That’s something the unionists can’t quite get their wee heids around. Did you miss thier excellent stall with free copies of their magazine. I think that stall physically demonstrated they are just another group in the YES tent along with the other stalls from the other great groups in the campaign. Some great stuff on all the stalls pity there was nothing that fits the ‘larger gentleman’ but loads of literature to read. 🙂
Well, made it into the photo’s. Last photo me and my pal Dave, just behing the wee girl and her dad.
What a great day, liked the aerial shot.
8,000 – aye right!
Hi, here’s a few pics from yesterday.
link to picasaweb.google.com
Was great meeting everyone yesterday and getting to meet the rev (my shiny badge is now treasured). I must say I felt there was a very special feeling amongst the ‘wingers’, hard to put into words but a brothers-in-arms type of camaraderie. All joined in common purpose speaking truth to power.
A special mention to JLT, Paul fi Broxburn, TonyMcC, Albalha and many more, thanks for being such fantastic company. I look forward to meeting up soon. A Wings night out?
Sorry, just watching the biggest joke of an interview of Lamont on The BBC by that wee snivelling nyaff. Hardest question was ” Is Ed Miliband a good leader” ? Labour party political broadcast, no interruptions and hardly a pause for breath.
@Sneddon
As a Hibee since 1949 we must have these more often! 🙂
Not sure if this will work but here goes
Careful observers will note I have earned brownie points with Stu by moving slightly to the right to take this.
I grabbed a few shots with a rather old camera.
I managed to get one of the two guys up on the monument to take my phone up and take some panoramic shots..
link to img38.imageshack.us
So I owe that and two other shots to him, guy with black hair trying encourage everyone else to climb up, so thanks if you read this.
I must have about 250 photos, some good some bad, need to try and nurse this headache a bit first though.
That looks like Blair Jenkins in the bottom right of pic 4. Was great to see the “VIP’s” mingling with the crowd yesterday. Couldn’t see it happening at a Bitter Together rally!
By the power of the internets.
This one was as we were assembling.
link to img11.imageshack.us
Wings Flag waving proudly at assembly.
link to img822.imageshack.us
At the eastern edge looking on
link to img405.imageshack.us
It’s not a pic of Arthur’s Seat. An optical illusion. They are on Calton hill with Salisbury crags in the background. Great day, but couldn’t get near the stage. My wife is American and has been here forty years. She has MS but made it from Waterloo Place to the monument. Anyone know how I can get her on the electoral roll?
Derek Bateman on a future Unionist rally:
link to tinyurl.com
I think I got the Wings crew from the stage before the #TradYes performance. Sorry I didn’t manage to meet you guys on the day. Photos and vids at Logic’s Rock: Aye, Have a Dream.
@sneddon-
More power to ye mister! Brilliant, inspiring stuff.
The photo of Arthurs seat is an illusion caused by using telephoto lens. The lens brings in the background reducing the depth of feild making it more shallow. i.e. bring the background closer to foreground, an effect used by photographers.
Great to see the flag of Kernow aloft – the old gaidhlig Land of Cornwall, now seeking their Independence.
Test
link to i1091.photobucket.com
link to s1091.photobucket.com
More photos of the day:
link to picasaweb.google.com
Camera was set to three frames per snap to give the impression of movement – They haven’t been edited out yet – If you see yourself, feel free to copy.
@Iain Brotherhood
Pedant alert (Morag’s no here so am taking on the responsibility):
Heart rending and Gut wrenching just so’s you don’t do it again on a public forum.
I bought you a pint in the Horseshoe so I hope you take the ‘rebuke’ in the spirit it’s intended.
Wee smiley thing, Iain.
We had a great day yesterday but sorry we missed most of you Wingers.
Next time.
This one I especially liked – from one of our Catalonian friends:
link to twitter.com
As per usual, the pics don’t lie.
What a result. Look forward to meeting you folks next year for party time.
Thanks, everyone, for your lovely photos. Especially big thanks to Grahame, among your FB photos I spotted what I thought were a couple of my Scottish friends!!! They have now confirmed that they, indeed, were there yesterday!
We got to know each other in the early 1990s, and being in our early twenties and far more interested in partying and the opposite sex, couldn’t care less about politics. I last saw them this August holidaying in Scotland. We didn’t talk much politics, they were don’t knows then. I think I mentioned WoS and a couple of other sites but left it at that. And yesterday they were on the Independence march & rally! 😀
I’m in picture 8, top right hand corner, wrapped in a saltire. I didn’t take any pictures as the battery was low on my phone and I was worried it would run out – so thanks for the photies.
@kininvie
This one I especially liked – from one of our Catalonian friends:
link to twitter.com
And, as per usual, an bitter together wades in with a snide, disparaging remark to this beautiful photo. They really can’t help themselves. sigh.
@HandandShrimp
And to the left of the Rev and flag in your photo is me in the green hat with my 10 year old son gleefully trying to knee me in the bloodnoks.
‘Claustrophobics for Independence, anyone?’ (photo above)
AAARGHH!!!! …Arthur’s Seat!!!! The horror! The horror! Nooooo!
Just when I thought I was getting over it, I’m reminded off the pain and anguish in trying to climb it as I did yesterday morning before heading for the Albanach. Never again! My legs are horribly sore today!
On a totally different note …where do you think they will hold next year’s event? Do they organise something in all 7 cities at the same time? (which isn’t a bad idea as it would certainly highlight it for the whole nation (would certainly have the media is a spin!) The organisation might be a bit mad, but, I can see the positives in it!).
I know Holyrood is out of the question (Queen’s property), and after being on Calton Hill; well, to be honest, I found it rather awkward for seeing the main stage.
The Meadows? Or do we just flood out Princes Street Gardens?
It is certainly something to think about!
Complete poison coming from ‘reporters’ in the Telegraph.
I can’t do anything about my photos until I find the mains charger for my camera. I think the best overview of the crowd was the short clip from RT, although even that didn’t entirely do it justice. Maybe if someone took some photos from the top of that tower?
This 8,500 thing is similar to what I suspected about the bogus 5,000 figure for last year. That 5000 was the maximum number they had policed for, and they weren’t going to admit they had under-resourced the event. Considering there were probably about 8,500 there last year, anyone who seriously thought that was all that was going to turn up this year was living in cloud cuckoo land.
Does anyone have a link to a clip of this alleged Better Together leafleting malarkey? I certainly didn’t see anything, and I think if they’d tried that with the main march they’d have been lucky to get away with being blanked. I’d dearly love to see what was shown.
It was a beautiful day, with no trouble at all, everyone friendly and helpful. Once or twice I wandered off leaving my bag and jacket on the grass by the Wings flag, then thought, don’t be so stupidly trusting, if you were a pickpocket in Edinburgh today, where would you be? Right here, with flag and face-paint. But I didn’t hear of anyone losing so much as a return bus ticket.
Andrew Gilligan smearing the Flemish and Scottish people with his classic brit-state propaganda in the london scumograph………go away Gilligan you contemptible liar and take that hideous rag you work for with you.
Relax folks, the smears just reflect their fears which are growing all the time
cynicalHighlander says:
Here is an aerial shot.
HeatherMcLean says:
Re the folk on Arthurs Seat… maybe that’s the 8000 the BBC were reporting?? hehehe!!
——————
I cannot believe that everyone involved in the march …are ALL standing on the hill in that photo! They MUST have turned folk away. I remember standing by the Tower on the hill, with DonDeefLugs, Tony, with a few others, and we watched in disbelief at the size of the rally as it moved down the bridges. We were there for a good 15 minutes! At the time, there was at least a good 3,000 already on the hill! I have photos taken from the hill, looking on the bridges, and you can see that it was still busy at that point
https://plus.google.com/photos?banner=pwa&hl=en-GB&pid=5926428976254430082&oid=110597853632470313963
https://plus.google.com/photos?banner=pwa&hl=en-GB&pid=5926429119969517570&oid=110597853632470313963
Plus, we were held up for a good 10 minutes at the base of the hill, while Security / Police / Organisers, made their final amendments for the day. We were jam packed at the bottom of the hill, even at that point!
The bridge if you followed the path to the hill was over a kilometre away. There is no way that that was everyone involved in the March. For me, from what I saw that day, it just doesn’t look right. People must have been turned away!
On a more humorous note …myself and DonDeefLugs came across a new statue in the Cowgate. In a little way …it looks like Willie Rennie. Enjoy!
https://plus.google.com/photos?banner=pwa&hl=en-GB&pid=5926429164611405922&oid=110597853632470313963
Aye correct it proves that they are bricking it!!!!
Vote Yes
@HandandShrimp
I’m just in your pic, riiiiiiiiight over at the left hand side with the pink hair and glasses!
I didn’t take many photos myself, but here’s half a dozen or so: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nellie_jean/sets/72157635758267493/
I reckon the crowd was probably at around the 20,000 mark. I think 30,000 was an over exageration. At most maybe 25,000. I saw Murdo Fraser’s remark about the rally, and thought it was really pathetic. I think they are privately concerned…
What an amazing day. Even bigger and better than last year and it was nice to meet some of the Wings contingent on the day. More so as me and my hungover friends all managed to sleep in and miss our meeting point, so I was travelling solo. I had hoped to say hello to the Rev but I got lost in the queue for tea and our paths didn’t cross again -so a belated hiya!
The train journey itself was a hoot as I found myself sitting opposite one Wendy Alexander who proceeded to indiscreetly and rather foolishly spend substantial parts of journey yakking on her mobile about Damien McBride’s revelation that her brother Douglas told Gordon Brown to dump her over donorgate + ‘bring it on’. Long story short she believes McBride and thinks the ever charming Douglas is fibbing and relying on her refusing to comment publicly on it to get away with fibbing. I’m not sure talking loudly on a train full of indy supporters on their way to a rally qualifies as not commenting publicly but I’m sure she knows what she’s doing. 😉
Like last year the atmosphere was fantastic and very, very inspiring. With a Yes group just recently up and running in my area and the renewed motivation yesterday has given me I’m in for a very busy twelve months.
According to the BBC Scotland webpage the figure attending the march is now 5,000!
How about an other wee run of shiny badges for the ones that missed them Rev. For a suitable donation to WOS. I would love one. If it is possible then I would be grateful if you could make it happen.
@Brian Powell
According to the BBC Scotland webpage the figure attending the march is now 5,000!
WTF! No way was there only 5,000. At least 15,000 imo.
5000 would be a third of those seated in Centre Court in Wimbledon!
Apologies, that was the figure for last year!
Still compare Wimbeledon Centre Court wihch holds 15,000 to photographs of yesterday would be useful.
Following on from 2012 the March & Rally for Scottish Independence DOUBLED in size this September to a impressive 20,000 participants! Numbers verified by stewards armed with counter clickers.
This is an immense achievement for a grassroots event powered by YOU and bringing together many different political and personal views but all with the same purpose and goal – to say YES to an Independent Scotland.
We thank you for your support throughout 2013 and look forward to an even greater turnout in 2014 – we are immensely proud of each and everyone of you.
Jeff Duncan – March & Rally Organiser
I got this in an email from Yes Scotland
I had a quick look around the Finnish MSM to see if the rally had made it over the “news threshold”. Sad to say, not a peep. 🙁 Fair enough, international news today is pretty much dominated by the German election and the events in Kenya, with a bit of typhoon Usagi thrown in.
Anyway, if the Finnish media have British correspondents, they’re based in London and mainly take their stories from the British MSM. Long gone are the days when Helsingin Sanomat actually sent a correspondent to Edinburgh and did a double page speread on Scotland and the SNP in 1992. I still have the clippings, featuring the then younger (and slimmer) leader Alex Salmond and a couple of youth wing activists by the name Stewart Hosie and Shona Robinson!
Adrian B, in the Handshakes etc. thread posted a link to the Norwegian paper Aftenposten (tabloid, but not in the British style). It’s got some nice pics, taken when the march was only beginning to assemble, and you can see that the Norwegians were after kilts, saltires etc.
link to aftenposten.no
For those of you who don’t know Norwegian, the headline means “Even my dug knows Scotland’s better off on its own”
I don’t actually know Norwegian either, but being fluent in Swedish I could understand most of it. They’d interviewed several indy marches and quoted arguments such as self-determination, democratic deficit, nobody up here likes the Tories, a more equal and socially just society… And an oil fund. Aftenposten probably ran the story because Robyn Warrender (31) said that Norway is the Scots’ role model 😀 (Norwegians are a bit smug that way 🙂 )
What an inspiring day! I took along two friends, one with his wife & some cronies of the RIC, and my parents and all thoroughly enjoyed the day. For me, the highlight was Yes We Canavan, who delivered a truly inspiring speech. It’s onwards and upwards now for Yes!
Some of my scenes
link to on.fb.me
link to on.fb.me that finger, it always gets in the way!)
Don’t tell me the guys in the helicopter didn’t take any pictures, showing the whole magnificent scene. Anyhow, there’s nae pictures o’ me and ah didnae get a badge – gutted!!
The fun started at the bus station, where I was approached by four people, two of whom were asking directions to High St.
Of the other two, one outgoing traveller complimented me on my Saltire flag, saying, “Scottish not British,” while another was heading away on the bus saying he’d have definitely attended if only he’d known it was happening.
Even walking to High St, the flag attracted fellow marchers and on-lookers, asking what it was for! For next year it seems we need more publicity!
I’ve been enjoying everyone’s photos (mine weren’t great so I won’t post them), and trawled through them as well as the YT vids to check out the flags. On that alone we were supported yesterday by:
Wales
Ireland
Mann
Cornwall
Brittany
Sardinia
Sicily
Venice
Catalonia
Neveron
South Tyrol
Poland.
I’m told that Corsica were present but I’ve not spotted their flag in any photos. It would be wonderful if those who we know were there without their flags, Aussies, Americans etc. could bring them along to the next one, to clearly show that the world is behind us!
Not sure if this can be confirmed but over in Munguin’s republic they are saying that the police confirm 30,000.
Tried to find info on-line but couldn’t. Maybe someone – I don’t do twitter – could ask them where they got that from.
Betsy, Wendy Alexander is famous for her ability to see herself as others do 😉 I miss her, she brought gaiety and relief to the grey world of politics.
A march in Glasgow is a good idea, though there are plenty more trumpets, nihilists and party crashers in Glasgow compared to Edinburgh. It would be livelier, anyway.
Well done everyone at the march. And well done Rev Stu. Take a wee moment to reflect the high esteem you are held in – by me aye, but also by people far smarter, compassionate and passionate than me, some of whom post here and many of whom dinnae. More power to your pixels.
Anyway that’s all my toadying today – we’ve got a job to do 🙂
I’m just back home after overnighting in Fife and I still have a lot of catching up to do.
Firstly it was a privilege to meet and shake the hand of Rev. Stu (sorry I missed the hint to take a shot at the banner 😉 !) I was hoping to meet up later and perhaps have a chat. I missed out on a badge as I was sitting looking at a deserted gold post box until I dug out my brand new smartphone and for the first time ever went on line outdoors only to read that “plan B” had been put into action. Talking of herding cats there seemed to be confusion as to where everyone was meeting up after the event. I had heard the name of a pub which I couldn’t` remember but thought someone had said “Princess St. and Leith Walk” Cameron B and myself wandered around eventually giving up some distance down Leith Walk and walking back to the Albanach where I had the best lager shandy of my life(An “Ice Cold in Alex” moment!)
Also great to meet up with fellow wingers to numerous to mention thanks to all of you it made the day a bit special. Wont it be strange being able to put faces to names?
The event itself went quite well in my opinion. The march was a bit slow but no worse than some others that I have attended. The speeches were all good. Nicolas speech I think that she was near to greetin at one point. Elaine C. was excellent as well. Imagine for a ridiculous moment that we had an unbiased media and that ordinary people were getting a regular dose of speeches and opinions from all of the speakers this referendum would be a cake walk!
Anyhow I have bags to unpack. Looking forward to next year (Full highland-wear for that one!)
Thank you all!
Argh, I’m tearing my guts out here seeing all these wonderful pictures. I wish knowing that I would probably had a horrendous time (so many people, even friendly people…) could make me feel better, but it doesn’t. In the spirit of solidarity, me and my wee freen went up my wee hill: no’ much, but I felt I had to mark the occasion somehow.
link to bannockburncomic.blogspot.co.uk
All things considered, this was a gathering of people bound together by an idea. This time next year, when the true cost of the union is finally laid bare, when Yes Scotland finally go into overdrive, when the months of negative campaigning finally fails, it won’t just be those thousands of people who marched up Calton Hill – it will be a nation.
Next year, all of Scotland will be Calton Hill.
@Votadini Jeannie
I spotted some Ausies with a great “Australia for Yeah” mock Yes placard. 😆
How about Murrayfield as the venue for the finally rally? It’s commodious, excellent lines of sight, great for tv, and there could be no dispute about the numbers…
Some people are arguing that the march next year should be in Glasgow. Nothing against Glasgow as a city, but I would prefer it to be in Edinburgh for the following reasons:
Glasgow City Council; enough said. They would use every trick in the book to sabotage the arrangements, and make it as difficult as possible for the organisers. Also, Edinburgh council is jointly run by SNP and Labour.
It would be closer to the main Loyalist/ Orange Order presence in Scotland. I am afraid it would just be asking for trouble holding it in Glasgow for this reason. If there was trouble then the Yes side would get the blame. The MSM are not going to blame violent Unionists, and by association the No campaign, so close to the referendum.
Edinburgh is the capital city, and home of the Scottish Parliament. If we had the rally in Glasgow the media would make a big thing of Edinburgh being rejected.
I wondered if anyone had heard from Arbroath 1320? There was a gentleman in a wheelchair at the Albannach when Stuart arrived, whom I thought must be him. At about that point Stuart started giving out the badges and I was caught behind the wheelchair and my extended hand didn’t get close enough. Stu had turned away and I practically fell over the wheelchair to get a badge. I then reached out and got a second one which I pressed into the hand of the chap in the wheelchair, so if it was Arbroath I know he got one.
I had hoped to see him later and speak in less hectic circumstances, but I never saw him again. The hill was an impossible place for a wheelchair of course. Arbroath, was that you? Were you there? What happened later – did you make it to the hill?
Looked for but couldn’t find wings.
There were 30,000 there all right, and how do I know this? Because there were more bloody people queued up for the 10 portaloos than better together will have at their rally, that’s how. I nearly busted a gut before I got to the front of the queue.
The other person I thought I was sorry not to have seen was HandandShrimp. However, in an earlier post here he said he met me! There were just so many handsome middle-aged guys shaking my hand I was quite unable to remember which one was which, and I don’t remember anyone claiming to be him!
Facilities? Like I said to RevStu, you should have gone before you left the house. Dammit, I’m the knocking-on-elderly female, and I only found out there was such a queue when I was trying to get near the SI booth and asked someone who was in my road what the queue was for.
Sympathies for pregnant ladies and gentlemen with personal difficulties, but hey, the young and healthy were simply lacking in foresight.
@lumilumi
That photo with the three wee girls in it is fantastic. Reminds you why we do this.
@Morag
After you lot started up the hill, myself and a friend stood at the entrance at the bottom to wait for the East Dunbartonshire crowd, thinking they wouldn’t be too long. Half an hour later we were still there as group after group sailed by us. But it meant I could see everybody in the crowd who came after me, up until my crowd appeared. There was indeed an older man in a wheelchair and I asked him if he were Arbroath, but sadly he wasn’t. Don’t know if it was the same man you saw at the Albanach.
Morag,
I’m certain I met with Arbroath 1320 and assuming it was he, he wasn’t wheelchair bound
Well, the chap in the wheelchair seemed to be part of the group waiting for RevStu, and several people assumed it was Arbroath. I do remember Arbroath saying he would be in a wheelchair. However, I had been expecting someone older, so maybe not. I’m sure it was one of us Wingnuts 😀 anyway.
By the way, don’t you all just love “Yoda” in picture 9?
Well despite staying overnight in Livingston, we missed the meet at pub. It’s years since I was last in Edinburgh and got a little lost initially until we started to see lots of flags!
Had the most amazing day, met loads of really nice folk and yes shook Stu’s hand at the hill. We had great fun trying to reach the Wings flag but my partner is 6ft 4 and can climb mountains too!!
Was asked by an American couple about why we were so keen to be Independent, was quite pleased with myself that I managed to explain without a pause and I think they went off better informed.
Haven’t sorted photies yet, daughter’s camera is sooo complicated. Got back home ( near Campbeltown) late last night absolutely knocked out but buzzing from all the speeches and camaraderie.
My once undecided fella is now “upfurit” and can’t wait for the next rally! Oh, and I’ve started planning the party already!!
Don’t think I’d like it to be in Glasgow next year. But I’d love it to be in Stirling.
Having said that I’d love it to be in Stirling, I’m also inclined to wonder if Stirling would have the facilities – pubs, restaurants, etc. to deal with that big a crowd. I always think they could make a lot more of Stirling if they just put in more of an effort.
Excellent photos Stu.
I was there in person but could not find the Wings Flag. We looked for it at the gold post box…..nothing. We walked up the High Street a wee bit and couldn’t see the flag so we returned to the box……still nothing. I then had a brainwave. I asked my partner’s daughter to check the Wing’s site. Then it hit us…….you were all meeting up at the Albanach bar!!!
We made it up to the Albanach and briefly met Bubbles. Unfortunately we couldn’t stay where we were otherwise we’d have been blocking the pavement!!! We moved to the topside of the Albanach and “parked” up in Fleshmarket Close.
When the band started up we still couldn’t see any Wing’s flag so we made our way to the roadside and ended up joining the march just ahead of the Women for Independence banner.
What a day, and to crown things off whilst we waited at Falkirk for my partner to bring the car round to us we engaged in conversation with a woman obviously waiting for her lift to arrive. Man that was the first time I have met an out and out unionist face to face, and I felt so sorry for her. She started with the ‘you cannae afford independence’ line and went downhill from there. I have to admit we had a hard time trying to keep a straight face every time she did her ‘you cannae……’ approach.
@Muttley79
I tend to agree with you. Much as I love Glasgow the combination of potential disruption & a Labour run council who would do anything to ruin it could end up generating more bad press than good.
The Man in the Jar says:
I spotted some Ausies with a great “Australia for Yeah” mock Yes placard.
I saw them too and got a blurred photie. A flag would have been fabby though…
Grrr! Just realised I missed Flanders off my list.
Thats right Heather.
Stewards clicked everyone in and counted 20,000.
Add to that the fact that about 20% of people that took part in the march actually didnt attend the rally (according to police figures) and therefore werent clicked in, there were 25,000 marchers.
“Here is an aerial shot”
But that aerial shot makes the attendance look about 5,000 – Calton Hill is barely half full.
Does anyone know if that photo was taken while the rally was in full swing, or whether it was before the vast majority of people were there?
If it was the former then its quite clear that the attendance was nowhere near 30,000.
“It would be closer to the main Loyalist/ Orange Order presence in Scotland. I am afraid it would just be asking for trouble holding it in Glasgow for this reason”
Yes……because if they want to cause trouble, 50 minutes by train is too far for the orange order to come…………
@Arbroath 1320
Sorry didn’t get to meet you, but glad to hear you got there ok. Mibbes next time?
“This time next year, when the true cost of the union is finally laid bare, when Yes Scotland finally go into overdrive”
Shouldn’t Yes Scotland go into overdrive and the true cost of the union be laid bare now rather than in 12 months?!
It will be far too late by then.
Yes, Edinburgh is too hard for the OO. They have to ship so many from NI after all
“Jeff Duncan – March & Rally Organiser”
Does anyone know whether Jeff Duncan and his fellow organisers got in touch with their counterparts who organised last year’s Catalan rally?
If not then they certainly should do before the next rally – the Catalan independence rally had (at the very lowest estimate) 600,000 people.
Polls suggest that far more Catalans support independence than Scots, but nonetheless it would certainly be worth investigating the marketing and promotional techniques that they used to attract such a massive crowd compared to the (lowest estimate) 8,000 who turned out yesterday.
Wouldn’t it be great if next year’s rally could attract 500,000 Scots? That would certainly be something to get excited about.
Ah, so the guy I thought was Arbroath, wasn’t. I hope he wasn’t just someone there by accident, and I didn’t give one of the coveted silver badges to a total stranger!
Looked to be great day. Pity I couldn’t make it and well done to those who did! I’ll certainly make plans for the next one. Yup, going by the pictures it looks like 20,000 to me, enough to fill Easter Road. Maybe the next rally could be held at the… Science Park at Pacific Quay! HA, chance would be a fine thing, lets just fill Hampden or Murrayfield instead. 🙂
The Wings flag and some other nice flags
link to img689.imageshack.us
“Yup, going by the pictures it looks like 20,000 to me”
What about the aerial photo, does that look like 20,000? Which scientific technique do you use to estimate a crowd size based on a photo?
I hope everyone avoided this group at the march, assuming its true what the Telegraph is saying:
link to telegraph.co.uk
Hope everyone has a good time – sorry I couldn’t attend. Re Arbroath 1320 – SHE’s a wheelchair user and was definitely there.
I just loved the Ruth Wishart joke about the ATOS ‘Lourdes’ comment…. disabled and infirm go in one door and after 10 minutes come out another door *cured* and fit for work !
Fantastic pictures everyone. What a tremendously positive event. Liked the wee lad with the yoda picture – wise words.
Panda Paws, oops my sincere apologies to the Lady in question, and to the Gentleman who I mistakenly assume was he/she
PCSA
The photo looked like it was taken earlier on.
On the left I think you can still see the marchers heading up the road towards the entrance at the bottom of the Hill.
You know, I think I was aware some months ago that Arbroath was a lady, but forgot. Then when a couple of people wondered if the chap in the wheelchair was Arbroath, I just thought, that’ll be right then.
Maybe I did give one of the silver badges to a complete stranger who was inadvertently caught in the scrum!
keef says @ 12.03pm
do you know?
I have never thought of it that way,
what a good point. 🙂
Has anyone got a fly swatter?
Is their a date for next years rally ?
Maybe we need to re-post the video clip from Russia Today. link to rt.com It’s only a minute long but it’s a decent overview. I thought the Wings contingent should have been in the snippet from 24 to 28 seconds, but it’s such a big crowd I can’t pick anyone out.
There’s a bit from 45 to 50 seconds where the camera pans the crowd during Margo’s speech. It isn’t the entire crowd by a fair bit, but it might be two-thirds of it. It’s the best view I’ve seen for giving an idea of the numbers. Maybe it was 20,000, maybe it was 30,000, but it was sure as hell a lot more than 8,300.
“I’m also inclined to wonder if Stirling would have the facilities – pubs, restaurants, etc. to deal with that big a crowd”
I’m sure it does. Stirling University has around 11,500 students, so if its got enough pubs and restaurants for them it should have enough for a similar attendance at the rally, although you’d hope the attendance next year will be a lot higher.
Well done to all you wingers who managed to meet up , unfortunately my son wanted to show solidarity with L.F.I after all the flack they took about being an S.N.P front .
I did manage to bang into Liz on the hill and I am sure I saw Chic McGregor having a wee rest down near the Business for Scotland tent , at least I think it,s Chic that has the Lion Rampant / mouse flag .
Rev , a wee suggestion , how about changing the design of the next batch of badges slightly so that those wingers who were fortunate to get one of the 1st hundred have a collectors piece in years to come .
Looking forward to your next batch of badges so I can buy one .
Hopefully I can manage one of the night out so that I don’t have to wait a year before meeting you all .
john donaldson says @ 3.46pm
So, Murryfield will hold a hundred thousand then? 😉
“Maybe it was 20,000, maybe it was 30,000, but it was sure as hell a lot more than 8,300”
This is 25,000 people, in Borussia Dortmund’s Kop: link to hullcity.boardhost.com
I’d suggest that looks like significantly more people than when the camera pans out in your video.
Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus
Fie, foh, fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman
Meaning
Literal meaning.
Origin
The phrase has no allusory meaning and, apart from when quoting Shakespeare or Jack the Giant Killer, there’s little reason ever to use it.
It is best known from the nursery rhyme – Jack the Giant Killer:
The source is anonymous and the date is unknown. It must have been before 1596. It is referred to by the English dramatist Thomas Nashe, in Have with you to Saffron-walden, 1596:
How true. Let’s not spend the whole day on this and finish with Shakespeare’s alternate version, from King Lear, 1605:
Labour Party to break up when the Yes vote comes home – so saith the fragrant Magrit. Does anyone need any more incentive? First Indy, then Labour deid, even more so than they are already.
“Labour Party to break up when the Yes vote comes home”
Presumably Labour will split into a properly Scottish Labour Party, I wouldn’t say that will be them ‘deid’ though – in many ways they’re the natural party of choice in Scotland, if they can re-position themselves as a properly Scottish left-wing party then they’ll probably win most elections in an independent Scotland.
If anyone fractures after independence it will be the SNP – why would a party made up of big business, corporate, pro-monarchists and socialist, left wing republicans remain together once their overriding objective has been achieved?
Gutted i had to pull out of attending this years march & rally due to buying a car from a friend who had booked it in on saturday(i know i know) for an mot for the car before i bought it from them. Just one of those things i suppose and will keep new polo shirt with slogan for the big one next year. Been catching up with all the speeches and photos so want to thank all you gals n guys for posting them to allow those that were unable to attend to see the blaze of colour that descended on the Scottish Capital yesterday…what an amazing sight you were to locals and tourists alike. How the Unionists must wish they had that kind of motivated support on their side. In their dreams. I too am buzzing with excitement from reading and viewing all this and i wasnt even there! I will walk over hot coals to be at the next one. Well done everyone and suck it up to the NO to Scotland mob.
the natural party of choice – that’ll be the one with the majority government I’d guess
and there was me thinking we had a Scottish Labour Party, with a real leader of all cooncillors and parliamentarians in Scottish constituencies and wards – are you telling me they’ve been lying all along and were dancing to London’s tune Publius? Surely not?
O/T Hope that YES Aberdeen retreived their banner from the pub ?
Quick question.
Does anyone know what happened to the children’s entertainment etc?
The Independence Rally website promised an area for kids as well as ‘facilities’, but there didn’t appear to be anything. My wee boy was fine. He just loved running around and dancing to the music, but I spoke to a couple of mums whose older kids were a bit bored.
I also noticed a lady sitting on the grass breastfeeding her wee one. Now, she might have been absolutely fine with that (her and baby looked perfectly relaxed), but others might have found that a bit awkward.
Just wondering what happened.
Still smiling truly great great weekend. It’s on.
Does anyone know what happened to the children’s entertainment etc?
There was a face-painting stall on the extension of the approach road, down where the food vans and other stalls were situated.
PCSA you remind me of someone on another forum that frequent, and he is just like you always stating a negative in a positive.
Vade et invenire tua theatrum to evomere vestris bilem
@ Morag
Yeah I saw that, but I think the website intimated more than that.
“this year we will be providing entertainment for younger children in a separate area of the event, and facilities for parents with young children”
I was so invigorated after the rally I decided to walk home. My poor old legs today.
I felt there was at least 20,000 there.
The stewards scanned 20,000 people entering Calton Hill, the police say that 25% of those that marched didn’t attend the rally. meaning that 25,000 independence supporters enjoyed a great great day, myself included.
25,000 marching in the Scottish capital, in terms of population, is equivalent to 250,000 marching in London.
I cant for the life of me think why the unionists are rettled.
Anyway, lets double it again next year!
a rally in stirling would be awesome. all that history and bannockburn being in stirling and the amazing castle and wallace monument in full view
Stirling Uni – is way out of town, plenty facilities on campus for them not to bother. (cheaper too)
Kings Park in Stirling would be great. Beautiful location near the castle with easy access from everywhere, being right in the heart of Scotland. And loads for the kids to do as well 🙂
Not sure where the march would start though.
march could start from bannockburn
I see One Nation Labour’s new logo is a huge St George’s Cross superimposed on a union flag which I assume is to appeal to UKIP voters along with the hair brained idea that every employer who wants to employ a worker from abroad has to also employ an apprentice thus raising their costs by 50%.
Wow, now that would be one helluva march!
A few more photos, Great day. We did see the wings flag at one point but sadly didn’t manage to get to say hello
link to bit.ly
I don’t think we’re even allowed to mention the word “Bannockburn” next year. Like “Braveheart”. Severin Carrell and Alan Cochrane will lambast us for basing our entire campaign on these two words nevertheless.
John Donaldson says:
How about Murrayfield as the venue for the final rally?
———————
That’s not a bad idea.
Plus side is, everyone gets in and can see the stage. I would guess the meeting point would be Haymarket Station. The only downside would be, if it was a march from there to the stadium, you would be shutting down the Trams for a good bit.
I like it though!
Yeah, Stirling would be good. I was there last weekend at the Bloody Scotland Crime Fiction Writers Festival and in between author talks went out and about for a cup of tea and to leave march and rally leaflets in various cafes, etc. (Tip – if you go into a cafe with one of those menus that sits straight up on the middle of the table, it’s easy to put a leaflet inside the menu).
However, there’s only a certain amount of cafes and pubs although they do seem to cope with the annual Bannockburn march all right. On the other hand, because the town is relatively small, cohesion would be easier. And if we make sure we coordinate with Scotrail to ensure they’re not doing trackwork, etc., Stirling is central and not too hard to get to. It’s also got an iconic atmosphere. The Runrig 30th anniversary concert on the castle esplanade 10 years ago was magical. As David says, we could do the Bannockburn march in reverse.
Oh and as Public Convenience out of Africa says, Stirling Uni has 11,500 students – though I doubt they all converge on Stirling at exactly the same time.
Stirling might be a good venue, though – if not for next year’s September rally, then for another one maybe in the Spring?
Jim,
the police say that 25% of those that marched didn’t attend the rally
——————
That I must admit, I do agree with. In some of the pictures that I have seen, there were people even standing on the side of the pavement, either waving or holding flags.
As I said, myself and quite a few others watched it move down the Bridges for 15 minutes. If you check my photo’s, you definitely get an idea of the distance. There is no way, that just around 10,000 marched. It was waaaay higher than that!!
I don’t fancy Murrayfield, because isn’t that all-seated? I like being able to wander around and talk to folk and maybe buy a burger. I’m there to socialise as much as to hear the speakers.
Let’s just fill the Meadows.
Jeannie says:
@Arbroath 1320 Sorry didn’t get to meet you, but glad to hear you got there ok. Mibbes next time?
Aye I’m sorry I didn’t get to meet you and everyone else. I’m even more gutted I missed out in being one of the first one hundred who got their hands on one of Stu’s coveted Wing’s badges! :(:
Never mind as you say there is always next year.
Woo Hoo! :P:
Morag says:
Ah, so the guy I thought was Arbroath, wasn’t. I hope he wasn’t just someone there by accident, and I didn’t give one of the coveted silver badges to a total stranger!
Don’t worry about it Morag you’d know if it was me, I don’t think I’m that easily forgotten! :D:
Hopefully I’ll be able to meet everyone next year. You have all been warned!!! 😆
I was going to put up an unforgettable photo of me and a couple of ‘weel kent faces’ but I can’t get things working, I’ve never done this before and Windows * is driving me up the wall so I’m afraid you’ll have to just keep wondering! 😆
re :- Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus
…………… Oh Gawd !!!, he’s been at the catnip again !!!
Morag – agree with you, although Murrayfield does have a huge amount of flat grassy areas outside the stadium (rugby pitches for training), it’s too far out of town and a bit awkward for people to then have to travel back in to get buses and trains etc.
The Meadows are perfect – plenty of space, flat, easy access, central location, amenities on hand (we could all head over to the Major’s pad and use his loo). From the same starting point on the High Street it would be a fairly short walk, which some may see as a disadvantage but those who are slightly older or like Arb1320 are in a wheelchair would find it manageable with a little help.
And there was me, for most of a day, having this wee warm glow inside because I thought I’d managed to make sure Arbroath got a silver badge. Now I feel really silly.
What about The Meadows for next year, a large open flat area? Not that far from the Royal Mile and I do know they hold regular events there.
Bella C has put up a lot of the speeches:
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Tartanfever you beat me to it.
PCSA says :
If anyone fractures after independence it will be the SNP – why would a party made up of big business, corporate, pro-monarchists and socialist, left wing republicans remain together once their overriding objective has been achieved?
Haven’t you just described the Labour Party there ?
Gillie – great minds and all that
DonDeefLugs
A special mention to JLT, Paul fi Broxburn, TonyMcC, Albalha and many more, thanks for being such fantastic company. I look forward to meeting up soon. A Wings night out?
—————
We could do, even if it was just a wee gathering back at the Albanach, say on a Saturday evening. October is no good (working quite a bit in that month), but November would be OK.
Hmmm.
link to news.bbcimg.co.uk
link to i1.ytimg.com
Ed Miliband vows to reduce non-EU immigration
I guess he needs to get those voters who have transferred from Labour to UKIP back on side. A good 5% of the electorate or so.
“the natural party of choice – that’ll be the one with the majority government I’d guess”
I’m talking historically, over a period of time, rather than making such an assessment based on one or two elections as you appear to be doing. A properly left wing Labour party are, without doubt, the natural party of choice for Scotland.
Sorry, link to BBC article
link to bbc.co.uk
Ed Miliband vows to reduce non-EU immigration
Tartanfever
If it is Edinburgh again then the walk should be a carbon copy of the successful 1992 Scotland United Rally which started at the foot of Calton Hill at St Andrews House and ended up in the Meadows via Princes Street.
“The stewards scanned 20,000 people entering Calton Hill, the police say that 25% of those that marched didn’t attend the rally”
But the police also said that the number who marched was 8,300 – meaning that if they’re right about 25% not attending the rally, then that aerial shot of Calton Hill with about 5,000 people would be broadly accurate wouldn’t it?
link to news.bbc.co.uk
In 2005 there was over 200,000 who marched to the Meadows for Make Poverty History. It seems ideal for 2014.
The rose of socialism is now gone to be replaced by the union flag, as preferred by the far right.
At least Ed is fading out the blue of the saltire (I’m sure it’s even more faded than last year ;-)), with the red of the St. Patrick’s cross already gone (N. Ireland becoming it’s own little country based on BSAS results). Facing up to reality. The one nation of England is his target.
Pubic- keep it up, I’m splitting ma sides
I think Magrit’s suggesting “Scottish Labour” will continue to take orders from London after independence.
@muttley79: Glasgow City Council; enough said. They would use every trick in the book to sabotage the arrangements, and make it as difficult as possible for the organisers.
It depresses me, but agreed. GCC actually shut down a march for disability rights recently: they couldn’t stop people from “unofficially” marching, but neither did they go to the effort of ensuring security etc. Scum rises to the top.
@Jeannie: Don’t think I’d like it to be in Glasgow next year. But I’d love it to be in Stirling.
Stirling would be fantastic: plenty of room, for one thing!
@Morag: I don’t think we’re even allowed to mention the word “Bannockburn” next year. Like “Braveheart”. Severin Carrell and Alan Cochrane will lambast us for basing our entire campaign on these two words nevertheless.
I understand what you mean. Nontheless, they’re already doing that, and they’ll continue to do so even if we never, ever mention the words. I refuse to allow these people to dictate what is or isn’t “appropriate” or “relevant” to the debate. They can throw their baseless, facile accusations of racism/anglophobia/parochialism all they like, and I won’t care a jot. This is too important to let them call the shots.
ScaredyCat I think it’s the type of rally where anyone objecting to breastfeeding is probably at the wrong rally.
Re Murrayfield as a venue for the rally next year:
Positives:
(1) Comes with all required facilities
(2) Great for tv
(3) Great for lines of sight
(4) Can be no dispute about numbers – imagine the power of all those “yes fill Murrayfield” reports…
Alleged negatives:
(1) Too “out of town”
Response: it’s only a two mile walk from Princess Street Gardens. That is double the length of the previous march, true, but those who didn’t want to march could just head straight to the stadium, or join the march at some point along the route, such as Haymarket.
(2) All seated and so doesn’t allow enough mingling.
Response: not true. The set-up for gigs at Murrayfield involves people standing on the pitch, with the stage at one end. Google image search it to get an idea of what that would be like. More space for mingling than Calton Hill, that’s for sure…
Taranaich
Correct. Nobody of any significance in Scotland is listening to those clowns whoare playing the court jesters to an English court
Prior engagements, visiting ageing parents in wildly divergent parts of thatEngland, meant I couldn’t attend and add my 0.3 to the BBC estimate of attendance. I’ll be sure to be in the country next year for the vote and for the party on the 19th. Well done to all those who did make it and it’s wonderful to see the pictures.
Public Convenience frae Africa – Jeannie, how did you ever survive as a schoolteacher? And PCFA is a cheery wee soul isn’t he/she?
i’m not keen on a stadium venue because the event could become a bit “stage managed”.I enjoyed the psychical challenge, and historical significance of Calton Hill, but my calf muscles ache today from standing for so long on a slope. Good for the achilles tendons I suppose.Stirling would be ideal, as Jeannie proposes, so much historical significance, and a superb setting.Since we all so much enjoyed Saturday’s rally why not double up for 2014? A Spring rally in Stirling and then Edinburgh in the Autumn.
Glesga? Naw.
And well done the organisers of Saturday’s rally.
Morag
And there was me, for most of a day, having this wee warm glow inside because I thought I’d managed to make sure Arbroath got a silver badge. Now I feel really silly.
Never mind, you almost certainly made someone’s day. 🙂
Public Convenience frae Africa 🙂
I don’t think there would be any trouble whatsover having a march and rally in Glasgow and I think we need a march and a rally in Glasgow. The City Council could not find any legal reason to prevent it. If they tried they would do themselves very considerable damage.
PS That arial photo looks strange. There are several areas in it very lightly filled which were completely filled when we got there. We were informed by stewards there was a halt in the proceedings for 15 minutes at the Hill (while we were still waiting to move off at the top of the High Street) when the marching was stopped at a point to before it reached the hill to allow disbled people to get up.
It is also a fact that a very large part of the audience left immediately after Alex Salmond spoke which was unfortunate
Never mind, you almost certainly made someone’s day.
Nah, I’m thinking all I did was confuse the poor guy. He did seem to be sitting fairly still and not trying to talk to people. Then he is engulfed in a pushing, reaching scrum of people, someone almost falls over him, then he has this wee silver badge in a wee plastic poke shoved into his hand. Probably had no idea what it was.
Must have thought we were all completely out of our collective trees.
most of the coaches were leaving around 4.30, mr salmonds speech came just in time for lots
@david
march could start from bannockburn.
No, that would be a very bad mistake imo. Bringing up history is not going to win us independence. It would be a completely regressive and counterproductive move. It would be needlessly alienating the English people (or people from England originally who now think of themselves as Scottish) who are part of the independence movement. Let the British nationalists keep on mentioning Braveheart and Bannockburn. We need to convince people about the future of Scotland, not the past. It should be about taking responsibity, having confidence in ourselves, finally getting rid of Trident etc. We should be proud of the past (well some of it anyway), but we have a chance to achieve independence in a much better way this time, through democratic politics. Holding it at Stirling would all be about history, and I think we have to try and actually create our own piece now.
On next year’s march I agree with Marcia on the route. Start off from Calton hill (where we ended this year’s rally) and finish at the Meadows (where we started last year). We would have come full circle. Incidentially, Marcia what was the route in 1992? Was it across the Bridges, up that long street to Greyfriars Bobby, and then past the Museum of Scotland and Edinburgh Uni, or was did it go along part of Princes Steet, up over the Mound, and along past the George 4th bridge? I hope they put the speakers on a stage in the middle if it is the Meadows, as it would be much easier for the crowd to access and get closer?
Marcia – yes, that route from St Andrew House via Princes Street to the Meadows is the ultimate route.
I just don’t see Edinburgh Council agreeing to it, hence why I suggested the shorter route from the High Street.
Murrayfield – you want to use the stadium ? starting price is £50k I would bet. And anyone who thinks the SRU would let an ‘independence rally’ onto their pitch is dreaming. No way will they want to get involved. They may be millions in debt but they’re not that daft. The SRU board would never agree to it.
The problem with walking out to Murrayfield from the city centre is that you have to walk back, so one of the main roads into Edinburgh that could be running the trams by then would have to be restricted for hours as we walk out, have our speeches etc then all walk back in.
What the council would inevitably say is “why don;t you just stay at Murrayfield ?’ Park buses and cars on the pitches/car park/road outside the stadium and not bother with the walk part, just the rally.
Short though that march was yesterday, you went right into the heart of the city, and that in my book is a big plus.
dundee deserves a rally
And just to remind a few folk. Our breakthroughs in Scotland – Motherwell, Hamilton and Glasgow Govan(twice) were in West Central Scotland which is why we need to have a huge demonstration in Glasgow. Our vote in the Glasgow and West Central area may well determine the referendum. Despite a vicious and virulent anti SNP campaign by the Glasgow based press in support of Labour the SNP still made a significant advance in Glasgow at the Council Elections. By next Spring the Labour Party’s grip on Glasgow will be disintregrating. A lot of it went out the window of a back seat of a car in Linn Park.
Note
Glasgow Council Elections 2007 Labour 69 SNP 4
Glasgow Council Elections 2012 Labour 45 SNP 27
Having marched more than once previously, when a friend asked, before any figures were published, how many were there I replied “about 3 to 4 times what the police say”. On the button!
Muttley79
I remember on that cold crisp sunny day that we went along Princes Street then up the Mound but not sure after that. Some of the chaps ran into the loos in the Shopping area as the cold got to them. 🙂
PS That arial photo looks strange. There are several areas in it very lightly filled which were completely filled when we got there.
Maybe, but one of the things you need to take into account is that the aerial view doesn’t allow you to appreciate the slope of the ground. People were congregating where it was possible to find a reasonably flat place to stand or sit. There were quite a number of areas where the slope was way too steep for that.
Looking at that view, the parts that seem sparsely filled are, I think, the steep areas of grass, with the few bodies on them actually belonging to people who were climbing up or down at that particular moment going to or from the toilets or the food stalls or elsewhere.
Another point is the official capacity of the hill, for which I have heard various estimates. That is not intended to allow a crowd standing shoulder to shoulder over the entire area – or even the flat bits. Yesterday, the crowd in front of the stage was very densely packed. To have that density across the hill would have been grossly unsafe. The tight packing in front of the stage and the large screens meant that people were comparatively spaced out in the peripheral areas.
I was there last year, and it seemed to me to be a lot of people. It was very crowded inside the Ross enclosure, down at the front. The organisers said they clicked 9,500 people, but I don’t think there was ever 9,500 people there at any one time. HandandShrimp said 7,000. I wouldn’t quarrel with 8,000, or even the fabled 8,300 they said were there this time.
Yesterday massively outstripped last year. There were at least three times as many people there. If that puts it at 25,000, so be it. Except, I believe there were people who didn’t climb the hill, either leaving at that point or remaining to watch on the huge screen at the bottom.
God only knows. But anyone who seriously thinks that was 8,300 people needs their eyes tested.
It seems the police originally set up their operation for 8,000 people, and that was the source of the very early BBC reports, which came long before the march had finished, and bear in mind the BBC don’t even seem to have had a camera on the hill. Reports from people who were talking to police are indicating that officers were called in from Fife once it was realised there were several times that number present. I don’t know if the police later revised their estimate or not, but some sources are reporting that the police confirmed 30,000 later.
It’s all pretty academic. As some of the trolls have confirmed, they’re prepared to rubbish 30,000 just as enthusiastically as they rubbish 8,000. And they’ll rubbish 100,000 just as happily. I noticed one thing which I’ve lost the source for. Some trolls somewhere consistently declaring that Catalonia mobilised 20% of the Catalan population while only (I think) 0.002% of the Scottish population were on the hill.
If we allow that there were 25,000, and we take the population as 5.4 million, that is actually 0.46% of the population. Even 8,000 is 0.15% of the population. So keen were they to denigrate the Yes campaign that their sums were out by a factor of 100.
Jeannie – it was a pleasure to meet you and your partner 😉 Thanks for the compliment … I lay the blame for my good character at the feet of my Father and Mother … they are entirely to blame 😉
And for votes
Glasgow Council Elections 2007 Labour 67,341 SNP 46,947
Glasgow Council Elections 2012 Labour 81,393 SNP 46,185
Labour -14,052, SNP +789.
Are you sure you have that the right way round, May King?
I’ve often wondered why the Police understate crowd numbers at public events? Is it possible that there is some ‘official’ ratio of police staffing which is dependent on the numbers attending and in order to keep police numbers and costs down to a minimum they are ready to massively understate attendance?
@Gavin Barrie
Eh…..that wasn’t my partner. Mr. Jeannie now says I’ve got some explaining to do 🙂
Damn, wrong way round!
Try again
And for votes
Glasgow Council Elections 2012 Labour 67,341 SNP 46,947
Glasgow Council Elections 2007 Labour 81,393 SNP 46,185
Labour -14,052, SNP +789.
Albert
The 2012 election had a lower turnout so that would be a good increase in vote share for the SNP and a fall for Labour.
@Dave McEwan Hill
‘A lot of it went out the window of a back seat of a car in Linn Park.’
You’ve put a disturbing image in my mind!
@Dave McEwan Hill
I don’t think there would be any trouble whatsover having a march and rally in Glasgow and I think we need a march and a rally in Glasgow. The City Council could not find any legal reason to prevent it. If they tried they would do themselves very considerable damage.
No, unfortuantely I just think holding it in Glasgow would be too risky. GCC would do everything in their power to make the organisers’ life a misery. They would attempt as much disruption as they could get away with. They would know all the local regulations and would come up with things at the last minute. They would also probably be influenced by SLAB figures behind the scenes (Murphy, Curran, Lamont, Davidson, Alexander etc). In addition, it would be close to the main elements of Loyalism and the Orange Order (particularly their hangers on) in Scotland. Holding it in Glasgow would mean that it would be more accessible to extremists from Northern Ireland as well. In an ideal world we would be able to hold it in Glasgow without thinking about it. However, I just think it would be far too risky.
@tartanfever
Yes, the SRU would not want any political rally, let alone an independence one, near Murrayfield. No sporting organisation would. I would imagine the SRU is as Conservative as you could get.
ianbeag bang on the button and politically usually to minimise the support for the ‘protestors’ Not so ij this case I think. They’ll be wanting a bigger budget for next year.
I’ve often wondered why the Police understate crowd numbers at public events? Is it possible that there is some ‘official’ ratio of police staffing which is dependent on the numbers attending and in order to keep police numbers and costs down to a minimum they are ready to massively understate attendance?
It seems that is exactly it. They’re not going to give out a number that is grossly in excess of what they have catered for in case they are criticised for being poorly prepared. I don’t know why they only catered for 8,000 this time because anyone could have predicted there would be more than that, but then we all know there are cutbacks.
It has been reported that at some point in the proceedings reinforcements were called in from Fife. It is also possible that the police estimate of the numbers was increased later in the day, but that was poorly reported.
I’ve had a closer look at the aerial shot, and indeed, all the bits of green that seem empty are steep slopes. The “habitable” areas are all well filled. The camera is also a lot further away than you realise. If you enlarge the picture it soon degenerates into jpeg artefact, and the area in front of the stage is just a blurred mass of bodies. It’s uncountable even if anyone did fancy trying it.
An interesting thought experiment. Look at the Russia Today 5-second clip where the camera pans from about a line from the stage to the monument, left-wise to take in most but not all of the crowd in that direction. Hold that panorama in your head, then mark out what a small area of the aerial photograph has been covered.
This was a LOT of people.
Maybe a series of mini marches around the country then the major one the week before the referendum. It would be ironic as that’s the model the OO use 🙂
Hope this works… some pics from the event
link to flickr.com
@tartanfever
If you’re planning on having a major rally anywhere, it’s gonna cost money, at least Murrayfield comes with purpose built facilities.
Also, it’s not clear on what grounds the SRU could refuse a massive hire like the independence rally 2014.
And in terms of walking back, given that they don’t have to close the road for people to get home after rugby matches, it’s not clear why they’d have to close it for people to get home after the rally. In fact, it’ll be easier than it’s every been once the trams are up and running as the stadium will have a dedicated stop – they could even put on extra services…
If you want to get tens of thousands of people to stand in a field for hours, you need to provide loads of major facilities, pray it doesn’t rain so that a mud-bath is avoided, and it’s extremely difficult to get incontrovertible proof of numbers.
Murrafield avoids all those issues… and comes with the other positive of being very press, especially tv, friendly…
Nice aerial shot there 🙂
Was that taken by the flying cam gadget? Or by whoever that was in the plane who looked like he was about to do a kamikaze run on the police helicopter at one point!
Definitely a great day out. Can’t wait for the next one 🙂
@Ianbrotherhood
Sorry I didn’t respond to your question on the last post, only just noticed it.
Yep, I am who you think I am 😉
Morag, I don’t know if the football game in the capital sooked up additional resource ?
I’m in at least 1 🙂
@ Sneddon
I agree that no-one should object to the lady feeding her baby, I was really thinking of her comfort. Anyone who has ever breastfed will know that a bit of back support is very welcome.
@John Donaldson
Where is the money going to come from though? As far as I am aware the organisers are volunteers. I also get the impression that Yes Scotland are not exactly flush with funds. I honestly can’t see the SRU wanting a rally of this political nature held on their premises either. In fact I would be amazed if they even considered it. The only things lacking from this year’s event was that there was not more toilets, and that it was difficult to see the stage if you were not at the front. The organisation was much improved in general from last year imo.
Nice aerial shot there
Was that taken by the flying cam gadget? Or by whoever that was in the plane who looked like he was about to do a kamikaze run on the police helicopter at one point!
The aerial shot linked to at the head of the thread must have been from the helicopter, which I presume was police. The wee quadricopter drone the National Collective guy was launching couldn’t have got that high. I don’t think it would have been from a plane.
As far as next year goes, I think we should leave it to the organisers to get on with it. They haven’t made too bad a fist of it so far let’s face it, and I’m sure they’ll have learned from mistakes like the number of loos.
We can’t go back up the hill because it won’t be big enough. So that’s out. Somewhere flatter would be good, if it can’t be a natural amphitheatre. Personally I don’t want to be constrained and constricted into a seated stadium, and I don’t want to be out of town. I imagine the organisers probably feel the same.
I’m confident they can come up with the goods, and I suspect the goods will look like the Meadows. If only the police will take them seriously and acknowledge from the start that there may well be north of 50,000 people showing up.
The city has hosted marches that size and bigger in the past. It can do it again. Maybe if the mood has changed and the polls are better and people are looking forward to the vote, attitudes will improve.
scaredycat – sorry I mistook your meaning.
Where is the money going to come from though?
We have a year to crowd source the funds, and I would want an invoice and 30 to 90 days credit. 🙂
I know people who didn’t get on to the hill. They were stopped by the police.
No idea how many that left down on the road. We’ve been told that the hill capacity was 20, 000 so did the police stop people going up onto the hill because. it was full?.
Ok, the march was the feckin business.
Now where are the WoS poll results?
🙂
I forgot there might be EU grants available. 🙂 🙂
Here’s my photies. Wings flag and the Rev visible on about 11th photie.
Jimmy Parker
@farrochie
link to dropbox.com
Hey, “Public Convinence Fa Africa”, I asked you yesterday if you were Duncan Hothersall using an alias and you never answered? so come on fess up.
Your style of writing is exactlly the same, with the twisting everything to make an answer that suits yourself no matter what the truth is.
Alba Gu snooker loopy!
@Sneddon
No worries. I probably wasn’t being clear.
O/T for those who missed it, the radio 5 debate highlights on R5 now.
Apparantly, it has also been agreed that Celtic football club will be using Murrayfield for their home games next season 2014 as Parkhead is being used for the Commonwealth games but im not sure if its just for two games (Parkhead being used for the opening & closing ceremonies?) or for the whole of the season. The meadows allows us a city centre location that can easily cope with any number of people and gives us a prominent route right through the main city centre of Edinburgh.
@oneironaut –
Aha!
Good stuff mister – keep ’em coming!
Enjoy my very good friends. I love you all 🙂
Morag,
Their sums also include hundreds of thousands of 6 month old babies, people in jail, folks physically unable to travel and anybody that happened to have to go to work yesterday.
@kendomacaroonbar-
Yep – it works fine.
Some great shots, and clearest yet of the SSP banner I was helping to hold. Although no part of my body has yet appeared in any image, it’s the closest I’ve got to evidence that I was, indeed, in Edinburgh, on that hill, and not just awol getting bladdered somewhere else – so, cheers!
Just back from the March and the Hill event, what a blast and a privilege. Had a great family day out and saw the WoS flag on several occasions but always disappeared when I got closer. Got as close as about 30 feet on the Royal Mile so not bad (Saw plenty of WoS T shirts though and said hi to a few folk). Spent most of my time in discussions defending WoS as it still seems to have a bad rep with some, (not SNP supporters though funnily enough – they love as it hits the money in their view).
Bumped into the following Politi persons on the day (& nice to see our side mix with the support)
Kenny Gibson MSP, Hamza Youseff MSP, Fiona Hyslop MSP, Colin Fox, Alan Grogan, Gerry Hassan, Gil Paterson MSP
Spent most of the the March along side Christian Allard MSP (What a laugh the guy is typical Frenchman full of life; could the same be said of Labour ?)
Daughter was on the first feed to the YES website so she was well chuffed (girl in Scotland goalkeepers Top)!
On the figures for the march (it will easily be 20,000 and will be proven). The ‘early’ Arial plates used by MSM (Record) have been cleverly edited and taken as early snapshots prior to the march and also before the height of the attendance during Alex Salmonds speech. The records picture was taken ½ hr after we got there, nearer ½ way through not any way near the full total.
Luckily I was not drinking and charted the densely populated areas at the speech. With an unscientific sampling of 3 persons per m2 (good enough for initial analysis) this easily gives in excess of 20,000 at the time (seriously).
So wait for the official YES picture from the mini copter throughout for a true picture of the numbers (Like last year).
Also I am informed that Police excluded spectator’s even Yes supporters from their figures. Ie – if you were not on the street you were not involved in the march (?) Contrary to Police nonsense almost everyone made the Hill. Met an elderly woman on the hill who had just gone through a hip op. Wondered if no could say similar ( but they cant do marches – they get enough coverage anyway.
So although I am concerned of the seemingly bias accounting of the Police perhaps its what we all expected from them anyway (sadly). But some cops are supporters so don’t want to labour the point.
Also no reporting of the mixing of Celtic, Hibs and Rangers fans who support the cause noted (no good news in that then for MSM.. oh no ).
But otherwise many positive outcomes not least the input of Alan Bisset, what a Star .. No campaign have no one of that calibre !!!!
PS :
Do hope people are not taken in by the constant carping of the ‘pompous sounding roman individual’ steer well clear ‘This one pops up again and again on other sites’ always slates SNP; either a ‘loose cannon’ or some kind of attention seeker.
Avoid like the plague.
Proud of all who attended or supported the event. Those who couldn’t … be there next year you missed out !!!
Hey, “Public Convinence Fa Africa”, I asked you yesterday if you were Duncan Hothersall using an alias and you never answered? so come on fess up.
Your style of writing is exactlly the same, with the twisting everything to make an answer that suits yourself no matter what the truth is.
Almost certainly not. Apart from anything else, Duncan himself in a rare moment of lucidity acknowledged that the numbers on the hill looked like 20,000 and the police routinely underestimate marches to match the number of officers they decided to commit to policing it.
And Stu is only going to get cranky if you keep pressing that point. I too wish PDSA would fuck off permanently and stop polluting these threads, but it’s Stu’s call and we have to leave him to it.
“he City Council could not find any legal reason to prevent it. If they tried they would do themselves very considerable damage.”
I agree that Glasgow is way too risky. There was a small demo last year in Glasgow for asylum seekers at which various trade union and political figures were speaking, including Patrick Harvey and Humza Yousaf. It was legal, entirely peaceful and organised with the council.
Yet the speeches were drowned out by a police helicopter, and mid-way through we were all told we had to move off George Square, quickly and by one particular route because the SDL/EDL were having a march that was coming onto the square. That was an entirely non-organised, non-legal gathering, specifically done to harrass the asylum seekers and those at the demo. But rather than preventing that handful of thugs from causing trouble, they were marched ONTO the square by police as we were all shoved off with dire warnings about not going the wrong way “because there might be trouble”.
Make of that what you will regarging demos that oppose anything Glasgow City Council is doing.
The route from Calton Hill back to the meadows would be fantastic. As has been said, it would be going full circle, but having picked up tens of thousands more supporters along the way. That would be a good image.
Also, marches and rallies are all well and good but it might be better to put different kinds of events on in other cities. Something like a big concert in Glasgow would be more inclusive and less overtly “political rally”. That’s what we need to start doing next year is just getting people interested, pushing out information, creating a buzz around the referendum.
ianbrotherhood
Sorry I missed you. Could have asked you opinion re. the coiffure I am mostly wearing this week.
Can we not all pretend there was only the six of us up there and keep PCSA happy?
I see Johann has used her Brighton speech to attack Salmond. It is now official, the woman is a stalker (OK a very dull stalker but definitely obsessed) 🙂
About 2pm (did March, not Rally) I chatted to a policewomen near John Lewis. Her shift was nearly over and she was concerned she would be called up Calton Hill to assist. From her comments I got the feeling there had been some reallocation of Police earlier in the day, and she was worried about more.
BTW, we started at the “Heart of Midlothian” and it was 12:40pm before we started moving, and when we passed the big screen at the foot of the hill (about 1:15pm?) Elaine C Smith had already started.
She also called “nationalism” a virus. I think she means anyone on the Yes side, and any SNP voter. I’m not sure which powers, specifically, you’re able to want without becoming a virus in Labour’s eyes, but if you’re a devo-maxer, watch your step.
Wonder if we could get some kind of ‘Woodstock’ event organised 🙂
I’ve still got me tie dyed Tank Top T shirt… seriously though, we just need to think big and capitalise on the zeitgeist gleaned from a successful rally ?
With an unscientific sampling of 3 persons per m2 (good enough for initial analysis) this easily gives in excess of 20,000 at the time (seriously). So wait for the official YES picture from the mini copter throughout for a true picture of the numbers (Like last year).
Also I am informed that Police excluded spectator’s even Yes supporters from their figures. Ie – if you were not on the street you were not involved in the march (?) Contrary to Police nonsense almost everyone made the Hill.
I have to admit to being almost totally confused. I was told in advance that only 12,000 would be allowed on the hill (I even emailed Stu to warn himto get the Wings party near the front just in case). Someone else said 15,000, but 12,000 was apparently the going rate. And they had every opportunity to count people in, at the single entrance gate.
Up there, though, the sheer mass of people was easily three times what it was last year. It’s not hard to tell the difference, looking at the photos of the two events. And bearing in mind that the photos of the Ross show almost everyone in one shot, while no one photo on the hill could show more than a section.
Some people say the police did close the hill and some were forced to watch from the bottom. Others say people chose to watch the screen at the bottom rather than make the climb (though it was a stroll, really, on the main road). Others say everyone who wanted in got in (indeed, as some people were leaving early, surely the police would let latecomers in to compensate).
I could easily believe there were 25,000 people up there. I’m just confused by this “we close the hill after 12,000” story that seems very pervasive. If that was only 12,000, then there could have been nowhere near 15,000 altogether. But that’s not what my own eyes, or the eyes of people practised in counting crowds (or birds) are telling me.
Wings standard raised in formation, I was off-centre between Wings and National collective;
link to imageshack.us
NC were hilarious singing various themed pop songs on the way..
link to imageshack.us
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and the rest…
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I’m also on 10-minute moderation?
“I’m also on 10-minute moderation?”
As has already been pointed out – nobody is. There’s no such thing as “10-minute moderation”. You can either be in pre-moderation (in which case there’s no time limit, you get moderated when I manually approve you and not before), or you can be totally unmoderated. I don’t believe I’ve ever put anyone in pre-moderation, but sometimes Akismet will hold back a comment if it feels it’s suspicious for any of several possible reasons (too many links, mistyped username etc).
There is no facility in either WordPress or the comment plugin to apply a timed moderation. Why would there be? I can’t possibly see every comment within 10 minutes of it being posted, so what would be the point? It is, as Morag and others have said, the (maximum) edit window in which you can edit your comment.
@jeannie
Whoops, see the bother you get into when you presume 😉 *blush* 🙂
HandandShrimp said:
Can we not all pretend there was only the six of us up there and keep PCSA happy?
Well, you’re only pretending to have been there! You said you met me but I wasn’t aware of it, and I specially wanted to say hi, too.
I’m also on 10-minute moderation?
For pity’s sake, when will people figure out that Stu doesn’t put anybody on moderation! The way you get “moderated” is to mis-type your name so Akismet thinks you’re a new poster and sets you aside to be checked for spam.
@CameronB-
Bummer I didn’t get to see your hair.
I’m still amazed that I didn’t meet any Wingers at all. Mind you, on the march, not that long into it, as we turned left and started downhill (the George-something bridge maybe?) I thought I heard someone behind me, on the left-hand pavement, saying my surname. I turned to look, but just too busy, thought no more on it – Richie Venton (veteran SSP man) then came alongside me and said he’d just been asked by someone if I was around – by that time it was too late, and in any event, I had the end of a banner-pole lodged in the ‘johnny-pocket’ of my jeans and was in no position to track back. No idea who it was – could it have been your good self?
No worries – I look forward to seeing you, and your hair, at the earliest possible opportunity.
Cath
I hope JoLo didn’t get the idea of a “virus” from myself. I can’t remember which thread it was on, but I remember saying I hoped Labour for Independence might provide the antiseptic needed to rid Scotland’s body politic of the ‘foreign’ infection commonly referred to as the ‘Scottish cringe’. 🙁
Gallowglas,
When you post the system allows you 10 minutes to edit/modify/delete the post ..and displays a countdown timer. If someone else has posted immediately after you, then you lose that 10 minute opportunity to edit. I’m guessing that’s what you’re seeing ?
About 2pm (did March, not Rally) I chatted to a policewomen near John Lewis. Her shift was nearly over and she was concerned she would be called up Calton Hill to assist. From her comments I got the feeling there had been some reallocation of Police earlier in the day, and she was worried about more.
I suppose they have to do it, but what a waste of manpower. All they needed was enough coverage to be able to spot pickpocketing and minor offences like that (though I don’t think anything like that actually happened), and to have a handle on what was going on in case someone in the middle of it all had a heart attack or something.
Although some leaflets and things got dropped, I didn’t even see anyone littering! Near the end I went to find a bin for my own apple core and crisp packet, and found the only bin overflowing and neat-ish stacks of litter all around it.
Policing that? Nice work if you can get it.
I once went on a march in London. It was against the Criminal Justice Bill, and it started on the Embankment and ended at Hyde Park. There were a lot of dodgy people about. Marching through the streets was quite intimidating because of the behaviour of some of the marchers. I was being urged to hold the SNP poster high, as it transpired that we were the only political party with any MPs that had a presence there at all. We were joined by a couple of rather forlorn Plaid Cymru people and (amazingly) by about three members of my (English) reading group who had turned up unbeknownst to me and saw me with the SNP contingent at the Embankment.
As I said, it was quite scary on the march, but when we got to Hyde Park it was fine, sat on the grass and chatted, bought ice creams from the van nearby. Nobody was paying a blind bit of attention to the speakers. Then we decided to go home. As I was half way to Hyde Park underground station with one of my English friends, a cavalry charge of mounted police galloped up Park Lane and laid into the “protesters” who were still there.
I’ve been on several protests in Scotland and they’ve all been law-abiding and non-threatening, even the shouty ones. That London one was seriously scary though. The first part because of some of the protesters, the later part because of the cops. I suppose that’s the attitude that calls for more cops to reinforce a larger-than-expected crowd. But it’s money for old rope.
Just looked again at kendomacaroonbar’s wee slide show (8.55) – I think I recognise the dude in the third-last image, with the gregs.
Did you pause outside, before re-entering the Albanach (approx 5.20) to extinguish a cigarette in our ash-tray, saying something like ‘I don’t want a fine for discarding it in the street.’
I was the happy, devilishly handsome (albeit knackered) camper, wearing a pin-striped black shirt, who retorted, with typically rapier-like wit, ‘Aye, no bother pal‘.
Whosoe’er ye be, you’re the only Winger I met.
Sorry Morag, there seems to be some confusion, I am constantly on a 10 minute moderation and I can assure you that my name is never mis-typed. My assumption was that this is some standard procedure, is it not so?
Had a great time at the march and hill, got a wee badge (not a silver one) and met lots of old friends and some new ones. All in all a great day.
There you go, another 10 minute moderation, Please explain
Cracking bunch of photos farochie.
I think the last photo is especially interesting. I say this because it looks awfully like the exact same spot I was at earlier in the rally, from the very start actually.
Unfortunately for us we were informed that this was the emergency exit and had to be kept clear so I, along with a few other wheelchair users were manoeuvred back down the hill and up the steep rise to get around the back of the highest point, ostensibly to get to the seated area. Jeez what a palava that was! I suspect we were supposed to be in front of the pillars in your photo number 8.
Unfortunately having been pushed, dragged up the grassy bank at the columns there was no space so we retreated back down the hill and watched/listened to the majority of speeches etc from behind the columns watching one of big screens.
Still I’m rather upset at all the palava about moving from our original space though, to the right of the stage and having a clear view of the big screen at the left of the stage.
@cath and HandandShrimp
Lamont is a British nationalist no doubt. She claimed to be a socialist last week in the Scottish Parliament, but what kind of a socialist would come out with right-wing Tory talk of a “Something for nothing society?” Whether she recognises this or not is debateable, but she is first and foremost a supporter of the preservation of the British state. Of course, most of SLAB (Labour for independence are obviously excluded from this) cannot admit to being British nationalists. If they did that they would immediately invalidate all their bile and venom against “the nationalists” over the last fifty years or so (only to be applied against the SNP in their minds). This would just not do, and so cannot be admitted, despite being more and more obvious. Their so-called ‘internationalism’ conventially seems to end at the White Cliffs of Dover…
Kendomacaroonbar said:
When you post the system allows you 10 minutes to edit/modify/delete the post ..and displays a countdown timer. If someone else has posted immediately after you, then you lose that 10 minute opportunity to edit. I’m guessing that’s what you’re seeing ?
I think that’s your answer. You’re seeing the 10-minute countdown window we all get to allow us to fix typos or have second thoughts about what we posted. It’s not moderation.
@CameronB
Every time I see Lamont with that hairstyle she puts me in mind of this:
link to tinyurl.com
That arial photo looks strange. There are several areas in it very lightly filled which were completely filled when we got there.
It looks like the aerial photo someone has linked fairly early on in these posts was taken near to the end of the rally, or even abobe photoshopped…we stayed to the end as there was a very good speech by a professor of economics, about the economics of Independence, did anyone get his name? It was very annoying to have the helicopter which made it diificult to hear some of the speeches. I would like then to see the real aerial photos because they were there most of the time,,,
Sorry, I spotted the great WOS flag but by then was ensconced on the grass with son and pal eating oakcakes, then lost sight! It was a fantastic day and if everyone who could not make it or did not know about it could have come along it would have been even bigger! I hope in a way we ( re WOS) can do more gatherings periodically, what about a social/picnic or something sometime?
all the best
hetty
My post at 10.34 pm was intended as a reply to Mosstrooper at 10.25, who posted thus:
Sorry Morag, there seems to be some confusion, I am constantly on a 10 minute moderation and I can assure you that my name is never mis-typed. My assumption was that this is some standard procedure, is it not so?
There you go, another 10 minute moderation, Please explain.
It’s not moderation, it’s an edit window. Time to fix your typos. But you don’t always get it – another post coming after yours closes the window, and sometimes it closes without another visible post, I guess possibly because a spam post came in that wasn’t displayed but it still triggers the counter to stop.