One is the loneliest number
Posted on
November 14, 2015 by
Chris Cairns
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14 11 15 07:44
One is the loneliest number | Speymouth
Ignored
…I wonder how much unionist/club pressure is being applied to the two judges during their deliberations. Will it be offers of high office or the Lords? will it be threats?
Probably one followed by the other.
Liar
(nothing else to say)
Still can’t believe he was not forced into resignation! Who’s paying his £250,000 legal bill? Will the judges convict? Of course not!!
I note that the National (Thursday I think) remarks that he also lied to the LibDem executive and (then) party leader Nick Clegg. So why have they not removed the whip from Carmichael? How does he get to stay within the LibDems while an investigation goes on, while SNP MP Thomson is suspended by the party yet not been accused of anything?
Perhaps because the LibDem executive and Clegg knew all along what was happening?
Wow Chris, you weren’t joking about the detail. Go have a lie down… 🙂
He has to go.
He will be rewarded for his contribution to the establishment, but out of sight.
If he end up in HOL it will be blatant. They think we are fools but they can not be that stupid.
One more SNP MP coming? Hope so.
How do we get rid of the other two?
Eh, surely the right honourable? Until he’s found guilty and resigns from the privy council!
Right honourable, now that is a joke!
Alison Rollo says:
14 November, 2015 at 7:36 am
Still can’t believe he was not forced into resignation! Who’s paying his £250,000 legal bill? Will the judges convict? Of course not!!
Never mind his legal bill. Whose paying the £1 Million plus for the ‘leak’ investigation?
Brilliant cartoon as usual, Chris.
Alison, Hopefully the judges will come down on the side of the ”Orkney Four’ and he won’t be the ‘Honourable Gentleman’ much longer
There is absolutely NOTHING honourable about that snake of a man.
Will the Bookies favourite of an innocence verdict, in the crime of lying to damage an SNP candidate/opponent (even though it’s exactly what he confessed to doing), cause a collapse in LiberalDemocrat votes in Scotland in May? “ONE” could become an even more significant number for Willie Rennie.
“Right honourable, now that is a joke!”
I beleive if he’s found against the Queens prerogative is to remove that title, even though through some bazarre machinations manages to keep his seat.
If he’s no longer a privy councellor he cant be The Right Honourable, I think.
Cementerio de elefantes
Fantastic cartoon.
If Alistair Carmichael is not found guilty of persistently lying with the intent of damaging the career of a MSP, and trying to influence the result of 11 Lib Dem MPs, including himself, (which he admitted to), then the UK legal system is making it clear
publicly, that politicians can tell whatever lies they want, for whatever gain they wish, without any consequence.
Why on earth would anyone then believe a thing that come from the mouth of a unionist politician.
Outstanding artwork,
.. the gothic lines overhanging his gloom…
..and the vastness of emptiness, mirrored in his vacuous gaze…
“politicians can tell whatever lies they want, for whatever gain they wish, without any consequence.”
UNIONIST politicians can tell whatever lies they want, for whatever gain they wish, without any consequence.
fixed that for you.
An example to the rest of the liars They can be held to account and contempt, if not in Parliament, in Court. Lying criminals. Hope he is paying his own expenses. He took an Oath not to lie.
Where’s the Chilcot Report. Brown and Blair should be in jail for the devastation and poverty they have caused. Lying criminals. They are next. Westminster is full of them. Using the Official Secrets Act to cover up their criminality.
clootie,
There’s nothing to offer them. These are very senior judges. They already are Lords as members of the Supreme Courts of Scotland and Lady Paton is also a Privy Counsellor.
Louis.B.Argyll
wow deep man
but so true.
The first time I became aware of him I saw a man of low morals and high self regard, while he clearly said (before he was offered the job) that the position of SoS was no longer relevant, but the minute he’s offered the position that little comment flies out the window!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/07/alistair-carmichael-scottish-office_n_4056334.html
If he gets off then there has to be a petition expressing “No Confidence” in him and calling for him to resign. Which an honourable person would have done months ago.
The absence of colour is a masterstroke. If carmichael the clown is allowed to continue to represent Orkney and Shetland, it will be a grey day for politics.
(carmichael with a small ‘c’ is not a typo.)
Chris,
Great ‘toon and your drawing hand has shown you yet another reason for a modern parliament without all the gothic trimmings.
One is one too many. Great cartoon, as always.
In the Unionist mind, they can do whatever it takes to save their Union.
They have lied endlessly. The difference with Carmichael is he is being challenged.
@Alan Crerar says: 14 November, 2015 at 7:44 am:
” … So why have they not removed the whip from Carmichael? How does he get to stay within the LibDems while an investigation goes on, while SNP MP Thomson is suspended by the party yet not been accused of anything?”
No mystery there, Alan, Michelle Thompson, being honest and above board, resigned the whip, that meant the party had no other option but to automatically remove her from the party.
Carmichael, not being honest and above board, is continuing being so. Likewise the LibDems as a party, not being honest and above board, also continue to be so and thus won’t throw out a member who is fully acting in line with party policy?
Remember that LibDem party still have not paid the Police Scotland bill for security policing of the LibDem conference.
Honest and above board parties pay their bills and do not retain dishonourable members be they Lords, elected members, party officials of just rank & file party members.
Looking forward to their Honours telling us plebs that our elected representatives are legally entitled to be over-paid, self confessed lying bastards, and we’d all just better shut up and remember our place.
If Carmichael believed the Frenchgate memo was true, then he was a fool. If is hard to believe anyone had so little understanding of politics to believe NS would be so indiscreet. Clearly he was judging NS by his own low standards.
If he was foolish enough to believe it, then given the dirty campaign the Unionist fight, then releasing it was perhaps to be expected.
As soon as it was obvious it was nonsense and everyone began looking for the source, Carmichael should have put his hand up, said he thought it was true, and if so believed it was in the public’s interest. Then apologised. He failed to act with any honour.
Worse, he then lied that he was the main perpetrator on TV.
The inquiry began and still, somehow, he managed to keep his guilt secret until after the election. He was not the character his constituents thought he was. He was hiding his true nature from them.
And, he still hasn’t resigned nor been turfed out!
cearc says:
14 November, 2015 at 8:36 am
I agree that I used the wrong examples of temptation. However…there is always something to be gained or lost for people of a unionist mindset.
I was not suggesting either judge would be tempted or cowed. I was commenting on the world of the Empire that assumes they can determine outcomes by influence (carrot and stick).
Chris, here’s the perfect tune to accompany your toon:
The Carbuncle Lament
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1X1THe0u7c
🙂
@Kennedy says: 14 November, 2015 at 7:50 am:
“He has to go.”
He probably actually has but just doesn’t know it yet.
“He will be rewarded for his contribution to the establishment, but out of sight.”
He probably already been rewarded. We just don’t know it yet.
“If he end up in HOL it will be blatant. They think we are fools but they can not be that stupid.”
They know a proportion of us are indeed fools and it is those fools they attempt to fool all of the time; and yes they can be that stupid
“One more SNP MP coming? Hope so.
How do we get rid of the other two?”
In truth it probably has been a good thing for the independence movement in the longer run that those three survived. They have probably done more, for the cause of independence, than I have in almost 70 years of following the SNP.
Wot else is Colonial Office foe if not to lie to the stupid inferior natives?
Re ‘terror news’, shocking YES, unexpected NO.
This is cause and effect in modern warfare.
Destroy a city, economically or physically, and you create hatred in some of those who have lost the most.
Without a family/community left to share values with, revenge is ‘sold’ as a devine correction.
Any tempted terrorist can buy into this, similarly to how the West buys and sells it’s carbon responsibilities with deadly consequences for the planet.
We have filled the Earth with hi-tech weapons, and now, ‘stupidly’..
(unless you own shares in defence procurement)
.. we strut around offending everyone..
.. while the Middle East is laid waste.
In this order.. Change should sort it.
END POLITICAL CORRUPTION.
END DEFENCE CORRUPTION.
STOP WARS.
PROTECT ENVIRONMENT.
PLAN FOR A MORE CIVILIZED FUTURE.
‘Mr Carmichael are you Scotland’s man in Westminster or are you Westminster’s man in Scotland?
It’s ok. No need to answer.
using the appropriate laguage of the Chamber.
A man with but a passing acquaintance of the actualité
@Baldeagle58 says: 14 November, 2015 at 8:00 am:
” … Alison, Hopefully the judges will come down on the side of the ”Orkney Four’ and he won’t be the ‘Honourable Gentleman’ much longer”
I think it is fairly certain that if the judges do not come down on the side of the, “Orkney Four”, (and thus at least 50% of the Scottish electorate), then it will not just be Carmichael and the LibDems who are then dishonourable but also the judges and thus the whole legal system.
In fact I believe this is a trial much more of the legal system than it is of Carmichael, the LibDems and the Union. We do, after all, have much evidence that the latter three are already dishonest, cheating liars who demean Scotland and Scots but the legal system is still under trial in the eyes of our nation.
Nice one Chris. 🙂
The man and his party are finished regardless of the verdict.
Its not and never has been about what particular kind of ‘lie’ he told.
As far as I am concerned its that he used his office and his position to attempt to manipulate public opinion, influence the democratic process and for sheer political advantage concoct a half arsed conspiracy to undermine the First Minister of Scotland.
The lies came well after all of the above and were bad and bad enough in their own right. I doubt we’ll ever know just exactly who knew or participated, though that little specimen Mundell is surely up to his neck in it.
Regardless, the defence of ‘that’s politics’ tells people all they need to know. THIS is why we’re here. Its why we do what we do. No one and I do mean no one likes to be manipulated or abused. They call them positions of trust for a fucking reason and our politicians of every stripe abuse those positions and that trust every single day.
This is our country, our government, our representatives and our politics. Its time the electorate set the rules, the codes of conduct and the punishments for those who abuse same. These… public servants (for want of a better term), need to be reminded that without the will and permission of the people, they are entirely powerless. In point of fact, they are out of a job, surplus to requirement, dole fodder and if the offence is heinous enough, criminals.
Superb cartoon Chris.
It would seem appropriate to say once again that if it were not for the Orkney four Carmichael would have got away with his lies scot free.
Tim Morrison, Phaemie Matheson, Carolyn Willing, and Fiona Graham have taken this case forward at great personal financial risk. They still need funds to cover their court costs. Please continue to contribute to their fundraiser to ensure that their costs are covered. From what I can gather they are still short of about £100k.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/
Also have to say my thoughts are with the people of France this morning. Such a sad state of affairs which will inevitably cause further division in French society.
I have to ask myself who will benefit from this attack. My tinfoil hat has it’s own thoughts.
@Bugger (the Panda) says: 14 November, 2015 at 9:29 am:
“using the appropriate laguage of the Chamber.
A man with but a passing acquaintance of the actualité”
In this particular instance, BtP, I much prefer the language of the Chamber POT.
Carmichael, the LibDems and the Establishment talk stinking, lying, PISH.
It used to be said of the Liberals, then LibDems, that they could promise what they liked because they were not going to win and be called to implement their manifestos. (In much the same way as SLab now).
However,be hen they entered coalition with the Tories, suddenly they had to step up and deliver at least some of their policies. They totally failed. Perhaps tuition fees in England and PR voting being their worst betrayals.
They got their just deserves at the ballot box. Carmichael slipped through the net by deceitful means!
Oh! In my anger at Carmichael I nearly forgot to complement Chris on his sheer brilliance with that particular cartoon.
Mind you, that in itself, is a complement to the effectiveness of his work. It achieved exactly to make the point it aimed at and I reacted to that point.
Well done, Chris.
tavish was fuming at being called as a witness. guilty by association he said…..
i think he is right, i believe he didnt know anything about this affair and he has been hung out to dry. he should not have been called as a witness. mundell should have been
question, who called tavish, the defense or the procecution?
and why wasnt mundell called? he was deputy sos at the time
I will be surprised if the establishment throws Carmichael to the wolves but stranger things have happened.
The Liberals are damaged though, as the last TNS poll indicated. In the end that may be just rewards.
I would still like to know who gave his Spad the document in the first place though. I am not convinced the Tories are innocent in all this.
“then it will not just be Carmichael and the LibDems who are then dishonourable but also the judges and thus the whole legal system.
In fact I believe this is a trial much more of the legal system than it is of Carmichael, the LibDems and the Union. We do, after all, have much evidence that the latter three are already dishonest, cheating liars who demean Scotland and Scots but the legal system is still under trial in the eyes of our nation.”
Rough as it may be, I think their Honourables may have to find in favour of Carmichael and against the Orkney Four.
Even though Carmichael is a self-confessed liar, of multiple pursuit, I believe the Act that he was being prosecuted under will not allow a guilty finding in this particular case. He did cover-up his lying character for personal gain (to keep his job) but I doubt a case can be made using the Act the way it stands that he made a slur against himself.
If that’s the case, it’s the law that needs changing, and the legal team can be spared approbriation.
If they find for the Orkneys, they are a courageous lot.
In any event, Carmichael’s finished. He’ll probably slink off like Brown. Egg prices in the Islands will rise.
The Orkney’s deserve a chance to go to the polls early.
How that can happen, remains to be seen.
A monochrome masterpiece.
” The lonliest moment in someones life is when their whole world is falling apart,and all they can do is stare ahead blankly”
F.Scott Fitzgerald (The Great Gatsby)
schrodingers cat
You suggested Mundell might have been called, him being Carbuncle’s deputy at the time.
I am prepared to give Fluffy the benefit of the doubt on this one. When you are flying a lie like this one, it’s best to have as few as possible actually knowing it’s a lie.
Fluffy was only his deputy, since he was the only Tory MP in Scotland, there was no other choice, he had to be there, but, he didn’t have to actually know anything or do anything.
Also, he was/is so stupid he’s better out of the loop.
Now, of course, the Tories are in sole power and he is still Scotland’s only Tory MP – he HAS to be SoS. However, I bet he is still out of the real power loop at Westminster and being heavily-policed by Tory Party minders.
Knock knock, Stu are you there Stu?
I had a post dissapear, I put up before Robert @9.50 but its dissapeared into the ether,
I checked and found no issues which akismet would have captured it for, but it aint there, any ideas?
Another cracker Chris. Thanks
Sad day for the human race.
I utterly condemn this butchering of innocent and mostly young lives.
The west have high tech drones – ISIS have human drones.
🙁
Liberal liar Carmichael left flying solo.
“The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.”
Alistair Carmichael – November 2010.
https://archive.is/zba9y
*************************
X_Sticks says:
“Carmichael would have got away with his lies scot free”
You do realise that phrase is racial stereotyping and is right up there with all the “thick mick” stuff aimed at the Irish by ignorant bigots, right? Think about it!
Chris -most excellent toon & the detail wow. Well done
John King
How do you check Akismet (asking for a friend)?
Nothing to contribute except thanks and positivity.
Great drawing, Chris.
Great contributions from everybody, you have all bases covered.
“Help me your onah”
No I didnt check akismet I just checked my post for obvious things that would have stopped it going up leaving the http//, using words like (tractor) and (Quizmaster) but no obvious things on the post that would stop it in other words. 🙁
paulTgeist
Racist?
eh not so much
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/scot-free.html
Amazing art work / likenesses – reminds me so much of Mort Drucker’s work
Can they really afford to let him off?
He lied on TV for all the world to see. We have so little respect for their word as it is.
If he gets away with this it is yet another (really big) nail in the Union coffin.
Im starting to think akismet just randomly hauls in a post before allowing it through for close examination, looks like its my turn.
it’ll probably go up at 8pm . 🙁
i disagree about mundell
i saw him give an interview recently and he was squirming on a hook. he refused to deny or coinfirm he had any knowledge at all and pointed to some vague government report which was full of the usual platitudes
even severin carroll laughed at mundells response and said that he doubted that this would be the last time mundell would be interrogated on this issue (we was wrong, btw, fluffy hasnt been asked by any journalist in the msm since then
i wish i could find a link to it, you could see quite clearly that mundell was guilty as hell.
cant see why tavish was called and fluffy didnt get his day in court. missed opportunity in mho
Why the fuck should we give a shit about “The Lord Mayors show” why in hell does the BBC think we’re remotely interested do they even give a shit, NO!
wingsoverscotland.com/something-less-than-an-answer/
found it
severin states i dont think that mundell will be able to avoid further questions on that subject
he was wrong, mundell got of scot free.
he doesnt sound very innocent to me. he would not answer the question. had he been in court he wouldnt have been able to waffle his way out of what was a very simple question
Chris, as Ian Brotherhood might say, “Sooooperb”. I particularly like the monochrome only effect to emphasise the doom and gloom.
I guess a lot of politicians would like to be remembered for something but Carmichael probably didn’t think it would be as a liar. He made his choices.
My fingers are crossed for the Orkney Four, that they achieve the rightful result.
@schrodinger’s cat –
Is this it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcJWcjwYMfc
‘Mr Carmichael are you Scotland’s man in Westminster or are you Westminster’s man in Scotland?
It’s okay. No need to answer.’
Sorry about overlap.
Aye, Mundell, with his wibbly-wobbly big Bo-Selecta coupon. Not a good look.
‘Weebles Wobble But They Don’t Fall Down…’ 🙁
wow Chris that must have taken you ages 🙂
There is more to this than just carbuncle the reputation of these judges are also on the line as is democracy,will they fold before the corrupt UK system or will they do their jobs and hand out justice for the people.
Your choices judges but dont forget you are being judged right now by the sovereign people of Scotland.
The only logical outcome any electoral judge should have is to call a by election and let the electorate decide carbuncles political fate,which is what should have happened without him having to be taking to court by the electorate in the first place.
As for the lib dems they are finished they should have dropped him like the big fat hot potato he is and they will pay dearly at the ballot box for this mistake.
Ah, Carmichael, a sad end to an unspectacular career.
Here he is, superciliousness personified, lecturing Christina McKelvin on her duty to scrutinise the Scottish Government. Meanwhile, he squashes Chris Flatt flat while behind him, Mr Roddin, fellow leaker, struggles to wipe the smirk off his face.
Includes the important question “Are you Scotland’s man in Westminster, or Westminster’s man in Scotland?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8oY2GJAo4
I noticed in an earlier post, someone trying to infer the expression “Scot free” was racial stereotyping.
I must admit, I had alwys thought it meant someone having broken the law in England could, on reaching Scotland, thereby coming under the jurisdiction of Scots rather than English law, had got off “Scot Free”.
However, I have now learned – wonderful thing Google – the expression “Scot Free” is actually dervived from Norse/Scandinavian useage, where a Skat or Schat was a tax; thus to get something Skat or Schat-free was to get away with that tax. Over the years Skat or Schat has become Scot.
Not at all racial stereotyping.
Then there is the American useage, whereby, some believe Scot-free refers to a slave named Scott, who fought for many years to have his freedom legally confirmed.
In that context, after we win Indyref2, I suppose we Scots will be Scot(t)-free.
Rentoul apologises:
“I wrote a post on Twitter last night that I regret, and for which I apologise. I suggested that Jeremy Corbyn might say that France had brought the Paris attacks on itself. I ought to know the danger of spending too much time on Twitter, and I make no excuses.”
That must be some grievance he harbours against Corbyn to even consider posting that tweet.
@ john king – Some very interesting variations there john and ones which i have never heard of until now. Certainly food for thought but i’ll always believe it to be racial stereotyping.
At least now when i hear or see it being said i know that someone somewhere has come up with another couple of suggestions as to the phrases origins.
And on that understanding i offer my apologies to X_Sticks and now realise that you may not have been as ignorant as first appeared, but i apparently was.
Oh well, we live and learn, especially on here.
john king says:
14 November, 2015 at 10:46 am
Why the fuck should we give a shit about “The Lord Mayors show” why in hell does the BBC think we’re remotely interested do they even give a shit, NO!
John, because the Lord Mayor in question is “Lord Mayor of the City of London”, the epicentre of the Establishment; the well from which all of England’s wealth springs; the centre of their (the Establishment’s”) Universe.
We in the underclass – West Country and East Anglian yokels, Midland former tin-bashers, Yorkshire tykes, Lancastrians, Geordies, Northumbrians and Cumbrians on the outer edges of Valhalla, not to mention the Celtic fringes, the Taffs, Paddies and the accursed Sweaties (less of course the Academicals, Watsonians, Fettesians/Lorrettonians, trained to be seen as true Englishmen), well, we have to be shown where the power in this realm lies.
And, it is the job of the BBC to make sure we are shown who are our Imperial Masters within the Square Mile.
That’s why we get the Lord Mayor’s Show every November.
As said repeatedly, this is not just a trial of a lying dishonest politician, but also a test of our legal system.
Will the establishment prevail?
That whole rancid place should closed down, re opened as UKOK museum of horror, England opens its own parliament, Scotland left to get on in peace.
It’s falling apart anyway physically, morally and constitutionally. Why would a grotesque liar Carmichael think he could get away with any of this, if Westminster wasnt fcuked to the core.
The guts it must take from those voters in Orkney to take them on is awesome. Look at how they’ve just robbed Scotland of the promised devo-max, federal UK, aided and abetted by their spivy creep out of a press and BBC.
Look at them now.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/20/jeremy-corbyn-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-leader
Vote Aye, the Aye’s have it, invade Iraq, decapitate the regime and decades of bloodshed and terror ensue around the world.
The ‘honourable’ bit, is a struggle.
However he is most definitely a (male) ‘member’.
Its a pretty abstruse part of the legal system that is under scrutiny here. The judges were sitting as a statutory court of inquiry to report to the Westminster House of Commons on whether the statute had been broken.
It is likely that the HoC will accept the report of the judges but it is not a given. Say the judges report back that he did lie but it was political rather candidature, the HoC can choose to chuck him as a lie is a lie is a lie or keep him as politics would be impossible if politicians couldn’t lie.
The pressure on the judges will be for them to be definite and not to have the Commons have to make the decision.
…
I am surprised at Chris for showing so much sympathy with Oor Al’s plight 🙂
@ Socrates MacSporran – Read the link posted by JK at 10.40am. It gives both the examples you express AND the racial stereotyping one. It’s the one many of us grew up understanding.
You’re never going to convince me that when we hear this being said by the majority of twats on tv, radio, in the media or in everyday life that those saying it are even aware of the Scandinavian OR American origins of that phrase.
They’re recalling it from the brainwashing of their upbringing that all Scot’s are tight b@st@rds and that we expect constant handouts etc etc etc.
Anyway, not wanting to detract further from the threads topic, i have said my piece on the matter and i rest my case m’lud.
O/T except for lying Establishment aspect:
The Red Arrows managed to find different coloured smoke for the Indian Prime Minister’s visit.
https://archive.is/dKx0g
“Instead of trailing behind their usual red, white and blue smoke, the Red Arrows painted the colours of the Indian flag across the London sky line…Mr Cameron and Mr Modi watched the flypast next to the statue of Mahatma Ghandi in Parliament Square.”
Another entrant for the BEFORE and AFTER compendium of Establishment lies.
@Socrates MacSporran (11.37) –
Tae see oursels as ithers see us, eh?
This, from Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell :
‘When he awoke it was dawn. Or something like dawn. The light was watery, dim and incomparably sad. Vast, grey, gloomy hills rose up all around them and in between the hills there was a wide expanse of black bog. Stephen had never seen a landscape so calculated to reduce the onlooker to utter despair in an instant.
“This is one of your kingdoms, I suppose, sir?” he said.
“My kingdoms?” exclaimed the gentleman in surprize. “Oh no! This is Scotland!”‘
Another slice of UKOK media bullshit within bulshit.
Y’see its perfectly UKOK for UK media to destroy Scottish democracy but
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/14/press-barons-jeremy-corbyn-ken-livingstone-mail-telegraph-sun-times
“Lord Rothermere has non-dom status, meaning he avoids tax on foreign earnings, while Rupert Murdoch is a US citizen and the Barclay brothers do not live in the UK despite holding many of their interests in the country. The Mail, Sun, Times and Telegraph have all run overwhelmingly negative stories about Corbyn since he became Labour leader.”
This week The Daily Heil called SNP the Nazi’s, which was all fine and dandy, aswell as completely burying the Scotland bill shystes and ofcourse Carmicheal taking a historic step back to his law practice.
X_Sticks says:
14 November, 2015 at 9:44 am
Also have to say my thoughts are with the people of France this morning. Such a sad state of affairs which will inevitably cause further division in French society.
I have to ask myself who will benefit from this attack. My tinfoil hat has it’s own thoughts.
I think a lot will depend on where the terrorists are from.
If they are home grown disaffected french muslims or recent immigrants.
If it turns out any were masquerading as refugees, that will inevitably have an effect on the EU referendum.
Just catching up and thanks to paulTgeist for the apology. Accepted.
I do know the meaning of scot free. Most folk who are unaware of it make the mistake of capitalising Scot.
John beat me to the explanation. Thanks John.
@ Socrates MacSporran
Some even say that is where the name Scotland comes from ,well we havnt always been called Scotland.
There’s a lot of artwork, (hard work) gone into that.
We all appreciate these wonderful drawings.
@louis.b.argyll
I think you captured it all in your post! 🙂
PS:
From about midnight update.
Bro-in-law and his wife & daughter reported in from Paris in the early hours…much relieve in the house.
Wee factoid from Stephen Fry:
The Nazi salute we have all come to recognise was not in fact invented by the Nazis or even the Romans as was once thought
Or the Boy Scouts, it was invented by…….wait for it…
AMERICA…. Schoolchildren taking the Oath of Allegiance would raise their arms and extend their little handies in that now well known fashion
The Nazis just thought it was a cool thing to do so they copied it
Nazi scientists also discovered smoking caused Lung Cancer long before anybody else but because Hitler wasn’t a popular guy nobody would accept the findings
Isn’t history wonderful, especially when you find out it’s not what they taught you
If not for the fact he was a murdering genocidal lunatic he might have been OK
Seriously O/T, but have a chance to comment while at compute instead of using my mobile.
I usually lurk, but had a thought to contribute, having seen some comments on EU ref during the week.
This is my third post on Wings, the first using my real name.
O/T, since I’m talking about polling for the EU ref.
I saw the commentary during the week about the 65/35 split for Stay/Leave in Scotland, compared to about 48/52 for England, and many people suggesting that this would mean that England would still have the numbers to give an overall Leave result.
However, this doesn’t take NI and Wales into account.
Has anyone seen recent polling across all four UK countries that looks at the splits for each country?
If we had a Stay/Leave split like the following:
England: 48/52
Wales: 50/50
Scotland: 65/35
NI: 65/35
Then, assuming high turnout in all countries, and based on 2015 GE electoral register numbers, the final result would be to Stay, by less than 50,000 votes.
Now wouldn’t that be interesting?
But are those splits for Wales and NI remotely realistic?
“They’re recalling it from the brainwashing of their upbringing that all Scot’s are tight bastards and that we expect constant hand-outs”
We can thank dear Harry Lauder for that image. He made a fortune around the world, USA in particular, portraying us as skinflints.
Had he tried his act today he would have been booed off stage as a racist.
Internet buzzing this morning with talk of revenge for the fallen in Paris. Do we learn anything?
Then what? Bomb Syria and the Middle East more than we do now?
The West had better realise that to prevent this slaughter in their major cities,they had better stop the slaughter in the Middle East.
Daesh may well be a threat,but does it really become nullified by half the worlds’ airforces attacking it on the ground. I do not believe so.
It is a vicious circle of death,that the West and now Russia think they can win. Fools.
Ruth Davidson on ‘Off The Ball’…
Macart says:
14 November, 2015 at 9:38 am
Nice one Chris. 🙂
The man and his party are finished regardless of the verdict.
Its not and never has been about what particular kind of ‘lie’ he told.
As far as I am concerned its that he used his office and his position to attempt to manipulate public opinion, influence the democratic process and for sheer political advantage concoct a half arsed conspiracy to undermine the First Minister of Scotland.
Ruby replies
I totally agree with that.
The other problem we have is that there is a willing press ready to go along with his half arsed conspiracy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a member of the press who though up the whole thing.
He lied we know he lied because he admitted he lied.
The interesting part of the story is who else lied. Did the French Consul lie and when the French Consul relayed the info was he speaking in French? Who did the translation? Can we see the original memo? Did the French Consul relay the information by phone or in a meeting? If it was done by phone is there a recording of the phone call?
Many unanswered question so I think I will just stick with my original assessment of this whole thing.
This big fat idiotic buffoon wouldn’t have been able to carry out his ‘devious’ plan had there not been a press so willing to con and manipulate the public.
The biggest joke of all is that the journalist who cost us taxpayers £250,000 is looking to be named journalist of the year.
PaulTgeist at 10.32
Hi, Paul
Although the term “scot free” sounds as though it should be a racial slur, it really isn’t.
It goes.back a long way to a small English tax called,in slang, a shot or scot.
So if the landlord was feeling generous you got your beer “scot free”.
There are plenty of other insults we have to bear but that is not one.
‘67,225 Glaswegians being removed from electoral register. Make sure you’re not one of them https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote …’
Just read this on twitter. I don’t really understand this. Does anyone know why people would be removed from the register.
Correction: “he would have been booed off stage as a racist.”
A self-loathing Scot. Or, master of the Scottish Cringe.
@Ian Brotherhood
Well it’s a slow footie day in Scotland no senior games 🙁
We didn’t qualify or make the play-offs as planned (which were last night and today)… so much time to fill.
They’ll get Ruthie to explain the latest Rangers and Celtic quarrel to those that are interested.
ZZZzzzzzz!!
How can Carmichael live with himself without resigning unless he has been given assurances that his current status will be protected or elevated, and that the verdict of the judges will be laundered by the appropriate House of Commons committee.
Whatever happens, those who are paying attention among the population, are receiving further education about the Establishment which will in turn inform their voting choices.
What seems unavoidable is that the electorate’s acceptance of the Establishment will be reduced. How that becomes manifest only time will tell.
However, events in France may very well influence UK politics considerably for some time as the fear of terrorism plays into the hands of those in power at Westminster. For example, we can expect the Unionist media to begin associating terrorism with separatism in the context of Scottish politics quite soon.
The discussion about whether the term Scotfree is racist or not led me to thinking about Scotch-tape. What does that say about us?
While we are on the topic of political correctness I noticed that a ‘part of the male anatomy is used to describe a person who is a total idiot. ie Honourable Dick (umm…..what’s that other word that starts with PR I’ve forgotten?
Surely this is sexist!
Don’t get me started on the C U Jimmy Hats!
@ One _Scot Don’t know why Glaswegians are being removed from the register but I could speculate. Alex Neil, MSP, found he wasn’t registered!
This was a classic ploy in the USA. Even when black people did have the right to vote what they couldn’t do was register through various scams, including intimidation.
Still true today:
http://www.demos.org/publication/why-are-51-million-eligible-americans-not-registered-vote
“Today, approximately 51 million eligible Americans are still not registered to vote. This represents almost one in four eligible persons, disproportionately low-income voters, people of color, and younger Americans. Among eligible voters, some 30 percent of African Americans, 40 percent of Hispanics, 45 percent of Asian Americans, and 41 percent of young adults (age 18-24), were not registered to vote in the historic 2008 election.”
Genuinely worried about whats going to happen in wake of Paris attacks.
So wish I wasn’t part of the uk today
One_Scot
Re the electoral register.
Immediately after indy ref, Scotland followed England in moving to the new individual voter registration system. Prior to this the head of the household was required to submit details of voters and/or those who would shortly be eligible to vote.
The new system makes each individual person responsible for registering themselves to vote.
This was introduced following a series of reports by Electoral Reform & Electoral Commission saying that the electoral registers contained up to 13 million errors (UK wide) so couldn’t be relied upon.
Those losing their vote will be the ones who failed to reregister as individual voters-deadline for inclusion is this coming week I believe (but don’t quote me on that).
scottieDog says:
14 November, 2015 at 12:55 pm
Genuinely worried about whats going to happen in wake of Paris attacks.
So wish I wasn’t part of the uk today
Ruby replies
We’ll be OK we have the 4th largest defence budget in the world and THE NUCLEAR DETERRENT!
OT Stu tweeting about people splitting their vote in odd ways.
My mother swore that a number of her friends thought that the two votes for Holyrood were a 1st and 2nd choice. So, they voted accordingly.
Perhaps Stu’s poll results are showing this?
I have often wondered about this and perhaps there are still people out there who view their two votes in that way. That is sad, very sad.
Thanks for the replies. So it was probably for legitimate reasons with a touch of sinister motives.
@Ruby at 12:53 pm
Starts with PR? Do you mean “private member,” which is what Alistair Carmichael is, i.e. a member of a parliament who is not a minister or does not hold government office.
Or were you thinking more along the lines of “privy member,” which is a euphemism used in the 1611 King James Version of the Bible to denote the penis?
Ot I am amazed at Cameron and Obama wringing their hands about the attacks in France they are the ones along with others who are the cause of it all ,I mean these are Revenge attacks for what the west has been doing in the Middle East they have dropped so many bombs day in and out for so long it is a wonder there is anyone left alive out there why can’t we learn to stay in our own back yard and let the people in the Middle East solve their own problems it’s not as if we don’t have enough problems of our own
I’m actually a wee bit hopeful that Carmichael will be found guilty.
Mr Mitchell QC’s master stroke was calling the indignant Tavish (what kind of name is that anyway) Scott as a witness. He was emphatic that he was not consulted about the leak so if his close party associates did not know about it, the leak was obviously not a political act but a personal one. That should go a long way towards satisfying the ‘personal’ requirement in the electoral law.
I also suspect that the judges will be impartial as they would have killed the action stone dead after the first hearing if they had been slaves to The Establishment.
OT but interesting
Drum belters and whistle tootlers on parade at West Lothian council headquarters today.
Received two labour party vote for me leaflets from Neil Findlay during the week. Seems Slab are starting early
You mark my words.He will end up in the House of Lords or a knighthood.(They’re throwing them about e.g. Danny Alexander)
@X_Sticks says:
” ‘Carmichael would have got away with his lies scot free’
You do realise that phrase is racial stereotyping and is right up there with all the “thick mick” stuff aimed at the Irish by ignorant bigots, right? Think about it!</I?
(Also John King).
Actually you are both wrong : –
Scot Free comes from the Old English. Which in fact is also the basis for the Lowland Scots language and neither modern Scots or English speakers would be able to recognise Old English.
@ruby
That’s what I’m worried about. It’s why we are in this mess
OT Stu tweets more …
“If another indyref was held tomorrow, 49% would vote Yes, 51% No. (Previous figures from same pollster: 47-53 in September.)”
I find that disappointing. I would have hoped WM/Tory behaviour would have pushed it a few more points towards Yes.
Odd aside from a routine UKOK propagandist
Severin Carrell ?@severincarrell 19h19 hours ago
Severin Carrell Retweeted Guardian Scotland
A note on my own story: if the BBC does do this, get some non-white faces and voices on air – end the all-white zone Severin Carrell added,
Guardian Scotland @GdnScotland
Exclusive: @BBCScotland bosses lobby Tony Hall for ‘Scottish Six’ news programme – @severincarrell reports http://gu.com/p/4e6k4/stw
BBC Scotland are going to change nothing. Its what they are.
Interesting though coming from an outfit who’s progressive liberal mask’s been pulled off by Scottish democracy, revealing a very unpleasant toryboy world of lies, misinformation, racist slander and abuse, if this is racism? Rancid The Graun said its not because their satirist went to Scotland once.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg
@galamcennalath
It wouldn`t surprise me if their is a high percentage of the electorate that think one vote is for your preferred party and the other vote is for your `second choice` party.`
Wingers could quiz friends,family and work colleagues to either educate or get a feel for how many understand how the Additional Member System (AMS) works.
http://tinyurl.com/lfun7cu
Re Graham B @ 1.27.
I think you’re being a tad naive there. Because of the publicity generated over this case, they have to be seen to be diligent; going through the motions, sort of thing.
The cynic in me says that they have already decided the fat liar will not lose this case.
The Legalised Justification for Racism:
Why do the Yoons keep referring to our MPs as the Scottish MPs when they’re not
They’re UK MPs representing constituencies in Scotland
The West Lothian Question hasn’t changed, only the representation of the politics has, there always were 59 MPs from Scotland
The desire to keep Scotland in the UK while at the same time saying we’re not, must be overwhelmingly difficult for the so Called English politicians to grasp the concept of what they think they’re trying to say without saying it
A bit like that last sentence
@schrodingers cat says: 14 November, 2015 at 10:45 am:
” …i wish i could find a link to it, you could see quite clearly that mundell was guilty as hell.
cant see why tavish was called and fluffy didnt get his day in court. missed opportunity in mho”
It is, schrodingers cat, the usual Establishment sloped shoulders. The two, Carmichael & Mundell, were sharing the same office space at the time. Do you imagine they were not speaking to each other on the day’s happenings?
Of course Mundell knew all about it and I’d be amazed to find out Downing Street didn’t even know about it, in fact probably initiated it.
No evidence, mind you, except for a knowledge of how folks in the same office, and Hecht heid ains in the same party, chatter one to the other, (and that experience comes from before we had e-mails and cell-phones).
Free Scotland says:
14 November, 2015 at 1:15 pm
@Ruby at 12:53 pm
Starts with PR? Do you mean “private member,” which is what Alistair Carmichael is, i.e. a member of a parliament who is not a minister or does not hold government office.
Or were you thinking more along the lines of “privy member,” which is a euphemism used in the 1611 King James Version of the Bible to denote the penis?
Ruby replies
😀
‘privy member’ Yes I think that’s the one! I do believe I’ve heard a lot of people say he’s a total privy member!
Great now that we’ve got that established any thoughts on using the term ‘privy member’
in a pejorative manner being sexist?
Any info on Scotch-tape?
scottieDog says:
14 November, 2015 at 1:40 pm
@ruby
That’s what I’m worried about. It’s why we are in this mess
Ruby replies:
Tony Blair agrees with you. He said:
Without the Iraq war there would be no Islamic State
Feeling very numb today. Hoping cool heads prevail and those rushing to retaliation are slapped down.
One attacker who was at the Bataclan has been identified thru DNA as French, from Courcouronnes, a suburb to the south of Paris: French TV
Statement from Scotgov re Paris attacks…
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=8007&NewsAreaId=2
http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/compassion-lighting-up-human-heart.html
Meant to add to my last post this is yet another brilliant cartoon Mr Cairns.
Scot Finlayson
I suppose I could read that link but I would rather just ask you a question. Hope that is OK.
I’m very busy today. I’ve got to go and switch on the irobot roombas/scoobas & things like that.
What happens if voters only choose one candidate. I remember the official at the polling station explain the ballot paper to me but what stuck in my mind was that he said ‘you only have to pick one’
Grousebeater
I agree wholeheartedly regarding Harry Lauder’s act which was largely based on a caricature Scotsman which the English laughed at. (In a way, like the caricature blacks in “minstrel shows”.)
Almost singlehanded he created the image of the mean Scot with his routines about visiting London and “taking a couple of bob with me, cos I like to pay my way” and many others in a like vein.
Not a man to admire, although Portobello has a street named after him.
“If another indyref was held tomorrow, 49% would vote Yes, 51% No. (Previous figures from same pollster: 47-53 in September.)”
That’s just fucked my day up nicely, apart from events of last night as well.
I know it can be seen as an improvement but it’s too slow. What is it with these morons? Is it something they’re putting in the water up here?
If it hadn’t been for No voters we’d by now be on our way to being an independent country with no involvement in the West’s wars of aggression in the Middle East and elsewhere, and as such would be far, far less likely to be viewed as a target, if at all.
Unlike the airport thing a while back, if there is a “successful” terrorist attack in Scotland – which could happen anytime because we’re still uk – then No voters will be at least indirectly responsible for it, apart from everything else that they’re already responsible for so far in Scotland.
The SNP and Yes movement generally need to get together and start brainstorming as to how to bypass the criminal “mainstream” media and get the facts out there widely, not just online, in such a way that all but the seriously stupid and/or deluded can understand and appreciate.
@GrahamB
I agree. I presume the judges summations will be published and available for all to see. I’ve read a couple of these about different matters, they take all into consideration, assign weight, weigh one argument against another, in a very logical fashion that you can follow. I can’t see why this should be any different, I’m sure they’re very aware that it is law and justice on trial, just as much as Carmichael.
Yes, the easiest thing would have been for them to kill it stone dead earlier. That they didn’t shows that they are acting properly.
@jcd
Be interesting to see demographic.
Nana says:
14 November, 2015 at 2:03 pm
One attacker who was at the Bataclan has been identified thru DNA as French, from Courcouronnes, a suburb to the south of Paris: French TV
Ruby replies
Good Afternoon Nana,
I don’t understand why one attacker being French is relevant. What exactly do they mean by French?
Apart from seeing a headline in Google news I haven’t heard anything about the French attacks. Are you getting wall to wall coverage on TV?
I don’t have a TV so I tend to be out of the loop which may or may not be a good thing.
@DerekM says: 14 November, 2015 at 11:25 am:
” … As for the lib dems they are finished they should have dropped him like the big fat hot potato he is and they will pay dearly at the ballot box for this mistake.”
As for Carmichael going to the Lords, there would be little change. He would just be going from being a liberal Liberal talking pish to being a liberal Pee’er. Just a change in the way to describe the pish he blethers.
https://twitter.com/dhothersall?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Out and about with SLab. What lies are they telling Edinburgh passersby today?
Vote Slab, We gave you The Vow, its to stop separatists vile whinging and grievance culture. What does it mean, check BBC Scotland for FACTS, they’re really not a bunch of con artists at all.
Vote SLab, We won’t bomb any more hot countries like Iraq back to the stone age, we promise, but when we do bomb other countries, launch cruise missiles into big cities with millions of unprotected people, we’ll nuke em this time with all new trident 2, so that will be that, no terrorist retaliation n shit, and Britannia will rule the waves once again. It wont be like now with endless bloodshed and terror everywhere you go.
Oh come on, didn’t it make you a proud Brit when you saw all those giant explosions in Baghdad 2003, as the UKOK war machine exerted UKOK world influence?
SNP bad then.
Heedtracker @ 1.43
Thanks for that pal,
now I remember WHY I stopped posting on The Graun ,The Hootsmon, Telegraph et al, I hit the roof and laid in about Severin Carrel and those idiots that follow him aroung like a bad smell,
How the likes of Conan and Rolf the Ganger put up with that shit beats the hell out of me,
now my wifes shouting at me for typing furiously
and Im blaming you. 😉
@Ruby
I don’t watch tv either but do watch live feeds.
A lot coming from rt live &
http://www.france24.com/en/livefeed
Ive had a sudden realisation it might have been a single word that stopped the post (wot I wrote) this morning so I’ve taken out and replaced it so here goes.
@ me 🙂 this morning
Bob Peffers
“They know a proportion of us are indeed fools and it is those fools they attempt to fool all of the time; and yes they can be that stupid”
I agree the fact the 39% of Labour voters dont even know who Kezia Dugdale is proves they would vote for the steam coming off a turd if it had a red rosette on it is truly amazing and makes the whole “Scotland is the most politically aware country bla bla bla” a bit ridiculous, those folk if anything have become EVEN MORE disconnected from the political scene because in their heart of hearts they know if they were forced to confront reality they would be independence voters and the thought of that scares them shitless, not because the prospect of independence is so scary but the fact they would have to confront their stupid baseless bias would show them up for the morons they really are, its as simple as (they are) that the only thing these people fear is facing their own stupidity!
So they just walk on by averting their eyes and hope they dont see a reflection of whats really going on in the shop window,
That guy at the foot of Leith walk before the referendum was a classic example of this kind of mindset,
exclaiming loudly (as if he knew what the fuck he was talking about) that Scotland coudnt possible survive alone because all we have to sustain us is Whisky and sheep!
or take that knuckle dragging moron at the Rangers Forfar game who said “we’d all be living on £10.00 giros” (whoo so 1970’s) and we’d lose the Queen who brings in £20 million a year”
Im sorry but its not good enough to just ignore this level of stupidity, these idiots have a fucking vote for Christ sake, and for every one of these fools they probably have family who they can browbeat with their stupidity so you have a substantial potental voter base voting for a complete and utter fantasy just because they “read it in the Daily Record”
Until we either get rid of these brain dead idiots or force them to take a lesson from Gordon Mackintyre Kemp or someone WE ARE FUCKED!
Rant over, carry on.
Kenzie at 1:51
I’m usually very cynical, hence only a wee bit hopeful.
In this case, however, I’ve a feeling that all the publicity might tilt the balance a wee bit away from The Establishment and towards us. Of course it will be no surprise if he gets off but even if he does his long term career is finished and his colleages in Orkney and Shetland will feel the backlash.
In addition, it may make other politicians a bit more wary of trying their usual blatant dirty tricks and smirking “take me to court if you have the money”. Crowdfunding looks like it could be a great leveller.
Hi Ruby.
Have a look at this:-
http://www.filmon.tv
—————————–
Hi Chris.
Great, dark, dismal cartoon! Just like the subject…
—————————–
Incidentally, I’m just back home from helping out at the foodbank collection in Dundee’s Murraygate. As far as I’m aware, Rizzy and his associates were not on the receiving end of any misplaced venom, re Paris.
Rizzy did say that he was glad that we, of paler hue, were there, to watch their backs. But, as I say, the passers-by in Dundee today did not appear to hold anything against the ‘Taught By Muhammad’ collection buckets.
http://www.taughtbymuhammad.com/
Graham B @ 2.47
I can see where you’re coming from, Graham and I do so hope that you are right. But……..
Cheers guys for links on how to get more info re French attacks.
I think I’ll just stick with obtaining the minimum amount of info.
It’s not as if I can do anything about it.
I can’t help thinking it might be a good thing if there was a total press blackout of these incidents instead of wall to wall tv coverage.
Indeed Ruby, starved of oxygen the fire dies.
Great toon Chris.
@Ian Brotherhood says: 14 November, 2015 at 12:33 pm
Ruby replies
“The interesting part of the story is who else lied. Did the French Consul lie
The French Ambassador, a rather nice lady, speaks perfect English. There was thus no translation required.
“and when the French Consul relayed the info was he speaking in French?”
Quite immaterial as the transcript makes it clear the message shows grave doubt about the report being true.
@GrahamB, 1.27
Thanks for showing why the Petitioners’ Counsel called Tavish Scott as a witness. It supports a key part of the Petitioners’ case – see paragraphs 11,12,13 of the following https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_ihJC6heTP3bGpIM0FWeGR2TXc/view
I think that this is part of the evidence which the judges wanted to consider.
Apart from all else – a really good drawing too
As the memo leak involved a French Ambassador I reckon that Mundell, Clegg and Cameron all knew about this (Tory / Libdem coalition).
They sat on that document from the end of February / early March until May (for over two months) and released it the day after Nicola Sturgeon had been involved in debate and was being lauded right across the UK.
I also think that the reason behind doing this was to damage her popularity in England in an attempt to prevent Labour winning the Election (Labour and SNP in power).
Check out the following video at around 16:16 …… Carmichael sneering at Nicola and heehawing his head off. He also says to Nicola Sturgeon ”You’ve got to start telling the truth because the problem is that every time you assert something without telling the truth YOU GET CAUGHT OUT.”
He got that one correct!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB2fiIrly60
This is him at Holyrood, smug and patronising, with Euan Roddin (so-called author of the memo) standing behind his left shoulder. Shifty looking Uriah Heep type of character or what? Chris Flatt seems to be half decent.
‘Alistair Carmichael silences his own official Chris Flatt’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgrJId9Q1lw
CARMICHAEL: The Big Lie ….. with Mundell lying too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwDiTDRmE7k
I can’t wait for him to get his comeuppance. If he wins this case his constituents should make it clear that they don’t want him to return to the islands.
Did I just here some wee lassie called Martel on that awful Des Clark programme say it wisnae a lie at all. I really must re-tune away from Radio Jockland.
And this was after telling us how wonderful the Scotland Bill was and what fantstic powers we have, so why all the whingeing etc etc
Sigh, bang head off wall
cearc,
“There’s nothing to offer them. These are very senior judges. They already are Lords as members of the Supreme Courts of Scotland and Lady Paton is also a Privy Counsellor.”
They are already in the pocket of the establishment and their only job is to protect the establishment.
They would soon be accused of being paedophiles if they failed to protect the establishment.
john king at 2.46
You can’t make stupid people wise. But you can effect their behaviour rather more easily than you can effect the behaviour of clever or well informed people.
I think it was George Bush who said “You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones we should concentrate on”
How right. And that was the Better Together campaign in a nutshell. And we were wrongfooted by it.
It goes without saying that structured, detailed and logical arguments can very often have little effect on the slow of thinking and senseless soundbites delivered by organs they trust to tell them the truth can have as much or more effect.
This explains the damaging effect of the Record, The Express and the Mail (and I suspect the collapsing sales of the Scotsman and now the Herald which have been insulting the intelligence of their fairly clued up subscribers for some time now).
There are a number of ways of dealing with this.
If it can be widely established that only fools and idiots believe for instance the guff about oil revenues and Scotland being subsidised then nobody will want to be seen believing such because the last thing a fool wants is to be recognised as a fool.
It is a matter of how to deal with a range of different perceptions by a range of different approaches.
This we failed to do. I am confident that the vast majority of well informed Scots support independence (though some perfectly legitimately still want to be Brits). We did not deal at all with the others to which the scaremongering and lies were continuously and fruitfully targetted.
There was no attempt whatsover by Better Together to present a constructive case for the union. They merely aimed exclusively at their target audience of the ill informed,the vulnerable and easily scared. And it mostly worked.
jcd at 2.17
“If another indyref was held tomorrow, 49% would vote Yes, 51% No”
I would like to see by whom and how these figures were arrived at
However I believe that they mean that we would win another referendum convincingly. We did start the last referendum campaign from a figure of support in the low 30s and we have a vastly bigger and better support now than we had then
Technically it doesn’t actually matter in the case against him whether the memo was accurate or not. That’s not what the complaint was. Nor does it matter why he authorised it’s release at a time when the advance of the SNP seemed unstoppable. That he thought it’s contents to be true because he thinks the SNP actually want the misery a conservative government brings is simply an indication of the way he himself thinks.
To somehow try to distinguish between political and personal lies is irrelevant when you consider he did so during an election campaign. Indeed as the lie the case is about is his refusing to admit what he’d done so as not to damage his chances of re-election there’s no actual distinction but if they were a political lie is actually more damning that a personal one.
As to the calling of Tavish Scott to the stand. you might want to consider why the Lib Dems are being allowed an opportunity to distance themselves from Carmichael’s actions at this point. That’s an indication, to me at least, that his time is almost done.
Hi Rock.
I accept that you have a downer on the Scottish legal system but, wouldn’t it be a good idea to wait for the verdict, before you cast aspersions on the probity of the judges in the carbuncle case?
Brian Doonthetoon,
“wouldn’t it be a good idea to wait for the verdict, before you cast aspersions on the probity of the judges in the carbuncle case?”
Judges are freemasons whose only job is to protect the establishment.
No need to wait for anything to state that truth.
Hi Rock.
I thought freemasonry was an exclusively male ‘clubbie’?
Correct me if I’m wrong – with relevant citations.
Rock
Nicola Sturgeon is a Privy Counsellor, are you suggesting she is a sleeper agent for the establishment?
Also the Judges could have quite simply thrown out the case at the start, they didn’t much to the surprise of many in the legal profession. And if they find again him, will that just be an establishment plot!