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Posted on
July 28, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Superb!
Balls in your court, Blair McD.
I suspect it will be a rather long wait. So what next if no reply in, say, another week?
“So what next if no reply in, say, another week?”
Then we have no debate, and they can never whine about Salmond being scared of Darling again.
The Which Blair Blinks Project?
Could we not still have the debate, but with other people? Blair McD could be represented by an apt object. A bucket of lard has already been done, and we wouldn’t want to be so offensive anyway.
Would we?
There are plenty of talented people here. We could ‘make’ a BMcD and sit him there. I know how to make a papier mache heid. You start off with a balloon and lots of wet newspaper. My dog’s got the same colour hair as Blair so I’ll keep some of it next time he gets a trim.
You start off with a balloon and lots of wet newspaper.
And you end up with a balloon and lots of wet shite.
I’ll have a bash at being the Blair McD stand in if no one else is up for it. Canny be that difficult, can it?.
This one’s quite good – it’s already got the BMcD eyebrows, just needs hair and a half-decent suit.
link to static3.businessinsider.com
I thought Wonder Woman was the expert at “having debates”. Wherever she is.
No camp is too busy making more tea cup storms. Now the metro is plugging a quote from Dennis Canavan about the royal baby as the Official TM Yes Scotland view and spuriously linking it to the independence debate.
What’s the betting BMcD/Darling resort to ‘Calmanballs’ to get out of this? e.g. the event has clearly been organised by cyberNat mischief-makers, therefore the security concerns are grave and BT wouldn’t want to endanger the safety of ordinary citizens by rising to such blatantly provocative ‘stunts’ etc etc.
As I am not a cyber-nat mischief maker I would be happy to add my name to a letter assuring the No/BT folk that we are genuine in our desire to witness an honest, truthful, fact supported debate.
ianbrotherhood
link to papermache.ch
As Bendy-Wendy once said
‘Bring it on!‘
How can A Darling refuse as a paid representative of the people he has a duty to make himself available and this should be politely pointed out to him Given a choice of venue and dates he would be unable to plead having a previous appointment
Mr McDougal is in a different category but will leave himself open to ridicule if he refuses
Before anyone from the Better Together crowd can even agree to attend what is an EXCELLENT idea from Stu they must first decide amongst themselves whose turn it is to have their solitary broken and misshapen backbone attached to their wobbly jelly forms!
Outstanding.
Well said Mr Jenkins.
Come on BT. Where’s yer man?
@cynicalHighlander-
Here’s his heid:
link to papiermache.co.uk
A shiver went along the Better Together team, looking for a spine to run up!
No doubt he’ll be dropping in to keep up with this, so let’s save him having to navigate to this page…
link to rwandair.co.uk
Go on son, you know it makes sense. And why not invite Darling to accompany you until the heat’s off, say, I dunno, sometime in late 2025?
Send us a postcard!
There was never any real doubt that Yes would front up for a debate.
It’s not them who are scared witless of the concept.
It was only really a matter of time before someone got back to you. Bet you Dennis Canavan is quite keen to get hold of Blair Macdougall as well; heard how Better Together responded to his comments about head of state? Even though he went to lengths to state it was his opinion, not that of Yes Scotland, the response to the piece, as broadcast by BBC Scotland pro union unit Glasgow, was that it seemed Yes Scotland was determined to go against the opinions of the Scottish public on everything. A quote which the BBC did it’s absolute best not to bother correcting.
It was in the 1855 bulletin on BBC1, should anyone feel like complaining about it. You won’t be the only one.
I’ve already laid into the BBC over it. Managed not to swear in my complaint even though I was typing in that way that suggests you really hate your laptop and are trying to punch your fingers through it. Fuming doesn’t quite seem strong enough.
@Beastie I heard them at 2pm say, apropos Canavan’s comments “which means that the new royal baby would never be king”. Well he might, just not in Scotland.
With regards to the Comments by Dennis Canavan this is not the time to let one’s personal opinions obscure the end result. Does anyone believe that ANY comment is not going to be twisted by the enemy?–REALLY!
Let us remember what the objective is and tuck our ego’s and personal peccadillos away until victory is achieved. We do not need to hand the Better Together mob any reason to attack us. They will invent enough on their own. No one has to open their mouth and let their belly rumble
. Remember, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
@Mosstrooper, I tend to agree. That’s the thing with Dennis Canavan, he’s only too willing to give his personal opinions on issues further down the road than the referendum, when he has not been asked for them. Normally I don’t have a problem with that, but it plays into the hands of journalists with an agenda to make mischief with it and conflate his personal views with Yes Scotland. I wish he would concentrate in striving for the right to choose and decide on an issue without necessarily insisting in voicing his own choice.
@Beastie et al
Rather than complaining to the BBC, why not sign this
link to ipetitions.com
by a poster called Graig Ralston on the bt fb page
“Ha ha, dumb Scots thinking they will ever be able to run their own country. Even if they vote Yes they have no chance just like last time. What suckers.”
and that was without looking,
I need a shower
is this what they mean by better together?
The editorial (both parts) in today’s Sunday Herald is worth wide distribution. Can anybody put up a link
Why are we being all nice and democratic about who has to debate with whom from the other side. FM with PM, YES leader with No leader etc, etc.
If Darling challenges AS then the SNP / YES should say OK, you think your big enough, we’ll call your bluff. We’ll debate you – anytime soon, Who do you want AS, NS, Jenkins, we’ll wipe the floor with ya.
Darling and McD are full-time bullshitters without a strand of moral fibre, don’t be so hesitant put them on the spot and show them up for what they are. Get in and attack, put them on the back foot and reeling.
If no one from Better Together accepts the challenge then they are but a bunch of spineless liars and deserve nothing but contempt.
Let the taunting begin.
I unclog my nose in their direction sons of a window dresser. Tiny brained wipers of other people’s bottoms!
Heard A Darling will be taking time out to promote the sale of his new hit single called “Maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner that I love London Town”.
All money raised will go to the Johann Lamont Makeover Fund.
It’s a Yes from Yes and it’ll be a No from No. They don’t want a debate.
They’re cowards, liars, self serving bastards.
@Dee-
‘…the Johann Lamont Makeover Fund.’
Throwing good money after bad? A cast-iron St. Jude gig if ever there was one.
The Lamont Needs Botox Brigade should consider Paper Mâché instead. It’s cheaper and the beast of a woman can just add fresh paper when her constant dribbling has her running so absurdly at the mouth As usual!
Well its either that or a toilet roll holder on her bottom lip!
Is anyone preparing a ‘WoS’ banner for the Calton Hill Rally? The more the merrier I suppose, but it would make sense to have one biggie we can agree to gather at.
Should be a great day – I’ll be taking at least 6 folk, just family & friends. (I presume the SSP folk will arrange coaches, and it’s a cert they’ll all be there.)
Not long to go now – eight weeks.
‘People, get ready...’
Mosstrooper: “We do not need to hand the Better Together mob any reason to attack us. They will invent enough on their own.”
Of course, the other way of looking at it is that they’re going to make stuff up anyway, so you might as well just speak your mind!
I think one of our strengths is the wide range of voices arguing for a Yes vote. If we try to suppress any differing opinions for fear of what the other side will do, then we’ll just be giving them what they truly want – for the entire Yes campaign to basically be what the SNP say. They absolutely hate it when their “Yes = SNP” narrative is shown to be a pile of shit, so the more folk like Dennis Canavan, Patrick Harvie and Colin Fox speak their minds about things they would do differently post-independence, the better.
(As long as it is indeed POST-independence they’re talking about…)
Sorry to go slightly o/t Rev. Word has it that some Labour supporters in Scotland (there are one or two left apparently) have given their leader a new title i.e. ‘Wonder Woman’, they are wondering where the woman has gone!
@ianbrotherhood – Great idea.
Like it Bill.
re ‘banners’ etc –
Years ago, during the ‘Don’t Attack Iraq’ demos in Glasgow, and, I’m sure, at the G8 Edinburgh march (2005?) there was an awesome flag/banner, usually near the front of the marches.
I’ve tried to find it, no joy, but it was huge, must’ve been maybe ten, twelve foot tall, similarly broad, looked really old, was all patched-up. Can’t even remember what was on it. Not sure if it belonged to the same guys who used to do the kind of ‘whirling-dervish’ stuff with their drums, one maybe playing the pipes, but they always seemed to be pretty close together and it was a really stunning combo.
Anyone know what/who I’m on about?
Whoever they are, here’s hoping they’ll be on Calton Hill in Sept.
Like I said yesterday.. Darling and BT ain’t got the baws for a live debate. Or any kind of debate.
Prove me wrong, you advocates of fear.
In accordance with getting away from the independence=SNP message, I would like to see a debate with Willie Rennie and Ruth Davidson for the antis against Patrick Harvie and Margot MacDonald for the yessers.
@scaredycat (11.32)-
Have just signed.
What a brilliant ‘petition’ – I assume it was written by a lawyer?
Here it is again:
link to ipetitions.com
As and when the Licensing people come back to my door (and, curiously, they stuck a note through, saying ‘we called but you weren’t in’ but I know for sure I was in the garden, and the dogs normally let-rip if anyone knocks the door) I’m going to make them stand there while I read that out. Shouldn’t take more than, oh, twelve, maybe fifteen minutes if I ham it up.
I suspect, as AlexMcl has stated on a previous thread, that they’ll probably give-up first.
Cheers. Great post and link.
mmmm think grand!
Rock and Roll
Roll and Rock
Roll Out and Rock Them
Rock and Roll
Roll and Rock
That’s a call
to the called for
We’re the voice
What’s our tune?
tbc, but request for tune genuine !
Please Help
!
The more banners the better for 21st September and I hope we have in place a robust mechanism to correctly estimate the size of the crowd. Nothing annoyed me more last year than the wilfull misrepresentation of the size of the crowd last year. We have a double decker leaving from Dunoon and going over the Rest and Be Thankful picking up at various points on the way. 01369 700132 gets a seat on it.
Bill C at 12:22am
Can i tweet that pleeeeze ? ie ” Word on streets of fearties is that …. etc ”
Don’t just vote it, say …. and i’ll > squeeze it in <
Re Banners etc, i’ve had fruitless search for auld horns, kinda like the Swiss, tae blaw at such events – including Sco v Eng matches at Hampden and Murrayfield etc
Aim is to reproduce on if not massive at least gathering presence felt and announced in the coming of, say pouring down frae Arthur’s Seat to the UKs terminal building, ken?
All insights in help welcome as getting short of time only.
Again, there are points to make …. and points mean ….
OT Great slogan from someone called YES on the Scotsman comments:
“Vote YES and make Scottish history…
…vote NO and make Scotland history.”
Very glad to concede this probably beats my:
“Don’t vote for the Union because of your parents,
vote for Independence because of your children.”
@Ianbrotherhood
It wouldn’t be the House of Lords these days, but the UK Supreme Court, IMHO. Other than that it seems to make sense.
In the event that the NO camp refuse to take up the challenge I will gladly step into the shoes of Darling or McDougall and debate the issues with Blair Jenkins or anyone else the YES camp choose to put forward.
All I would have to do is repeat all the lies and scare stories spouted by the Unionists. I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to get an exact copy of their statements from press, TV and the film reproduced here on Wings a couple of days ago to put to an audience. All that Jenkins (or whoever) would have to do is respond with the facts.
The editorial (both parts) in today’s Sunday Herald is worth wide distribution. Can anybody put up a link?
link to heraldscotland.com
Anyone looking for coaches for the indy march, here’s a link from their website with over 30 departures from all over Scotland, together with ticket costs
link to independencerally.com
THE SNP Government’s pledge of guaranteed annual state pension rises will mean the cost of them to taxpayers will rocket from the current £53 million a year to a “black hole” of more than £700m by 2050 if Scotland became independent, according to Scottish Labour calculations.
The latest from Project Fear, reported uncritically by Michael Settle in today’s Herald.
link to heraldscotland.com
2050!
OT. Surprise surprise. Call UKaye will be ‘discussing’ the monarchy this morning.
Just had a look at the article Stuart Black linked to. What an absolute joke! Can anyone work out what £700 million in 2050 would be in today’s money, and what it would have been 37 years ago in 1976?
Also interesting to see the “international socialists” using tax rises as an instrument of fear as usual…
And that Mr OBE from Woking is an amazing character. He manages to mention Alex Salmond 12 times in a single comment, and accuses a woman of lying about when she’ll get her pension (asking at what age a MAN gets the pension – he’s a good reader, this guy). Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would feel embarrassed and shut up for a few days, but you can be sure he won’t!
This should be very interesting:
The Poundland case reaches the supreme court.
This is the one where Labour rode to the help of their buddies, the Tories, to introduce retrospect legislation to make people work for zilch.
Indian – no problem, I can’t claim it as mine, read something similar somewhere.
Doug Daniel @ 9:06
I think OBE is quite simply a Herald employee or paid Troll.
He came onto the site posting moderate pro union comments but now has descended in a frothy mouthed lunatic, and I use the work lunatic in a Hector Hannibal cinematic sense. You can almost sense the face through the bars.
That saying he could now me a number of people on rota with the sole purpose of posting such bilge to increase temperature of the threads. He is simply clickbait like the West Midlands troll. So it all a fake.
Terry Kelly is the genuine fruit bat article and used to publish his drivvel under the pseudonym “Baffled.” He was regularly knocked down, abused and generally extracted of the pee-pee. He would disappear after losing the plot but reappear later on another thread or next day all bright and bushy tailed. He is tolerated on the site because he brings comments and clicks, not for his wit, wisdom and insight.
I have given up reading the comments now, even the Sunday Herald. It take time I will never see again.
Yes Doug, the difficulty of predicting a year or two in advance palls against this stuff, they must be very desperate indeed.
As for OBE, totally unreadable, I wish people would stop engaging with him. TBH, I think he must be mad in the heid!
@Doug Daniel
‘Just had a look at the article Stuart Black linked to. What an absolute joke! Can anyone work out what £700 million in 2050 would be in today’s money, and what it would have been 37 years ago in 1976?’
£115million in ’76 would roughly provide £700million today (it’s about a sixth).
Indion says:
29 July, 2013 at 1:25 am
“Re Banners etc, i’ve had fruitless search for auld horns, “
link to bit.ly
Vuvuzelas, which were much talked of, as well as 1966 at the World Cup in South Africa. Which we never qualified for………again………
“£115million in ’76 would roughly provide £700million today (it’s about a sixth).”
So we can estimate £700 million in 2050 being about £115 million in today’s money too. Hmmm, suddenly not such a scary headline – I wonder why Michael Settle didn’t do the sums beforehand…?
Chic McGregor says:
29 July, 2013 at 1:38 am
OT Great slogan from someone called YES on the Scotsman comments: “Vote YES and make Scottish history……vote NO and make Scotland history.” Very glad to concede this probably beats my: “Don’t vote for the Union because of your parents,vote for Independence because of your children.”
I also like “iScotland”.
Doug Daniel
‘ I wonder why Michael Settle didn’t do the sums beforehand…?’
He probably did, and then thought ‘Shit, that hardly registers on the Fearometer’.
O/T
but
Anybody know the final total collected for the poll and other stuff?
I expect the BBC now rue the internet and wish that pro-independence sites would go away; an article from Newsnet.
link to tinyurl.com
@Bugger (the Panda)
£5,971 with 9 days still to run; I believe the Rev asked people to stop contributing after beating the target almost 3 times over
You can see it through the link on the ‘Let’s get a thing Done’ post
“£5,971 with 9 days still to run; I believe the Rev asked people to stop contributing after beating the target almost 3 times over :)”
Yeah, have been tweeting for people to stop donating since Day 3, but well over £1000 has come in since then anyway. Indiegogo rules don’t let me close it down, so we’ll just have to wait to see what the final total is, but I don’t see it rising much above the current figure. We’re down to dribs and drabs now.
Iain
Thanks BtP
Regards the so called ‘pension black hole’, most of the people who are really worried about their pensions and savings and such things, (ie the better off pensioner, having had a guarenteed and decent payed job for years) won’t be around in 2050, so they’d have to be concerned for the next generation of pensioners. I’d be surprised if that was really an issue for many of them at all, the No lot will try anything to reach out to the comfortably off.
I’m sure I could create a good animated CGI-rendered likeness of the average BT panic merchant and they could interview that.
It wouldn’t even have to make any sense. They never do!
Haven’t heard of this Calton Hill gig yet. Sounds interesting though
@gerry parker.
The citizens of iScotland shall of course be iScots.
Better than a YES and can be for all time hence.
Of course even better if Apple Inc claim ownership !
Hail Alba
Panic engulfs Labour’s Manchester HQ? Something has carried off Johann Lamont
Blair McDougall`s Twitter response.
link to twitter.com
Yesitis
I take that to be a No, then. Consistent.
The man from No, he says No.
It’s difficult to penetrate McDougall’s tortured syntax, but I think his response translates as ‘I’m scared’.
Yes, Blair McDougall`s “but can’t believe he legitimised your bile by accepting invite” line, is very telling.
He seems to be saying WoS and Rev Stu are trolls and not worth the bother?
Yep, he`s bricking it.
Rev Stu “Yeah, have been tweeting for people to stop donating since Day 3, but well over £1000 has come in since then anyway”
I don’t know how much it would cost but could the extra money be used to buy ad space in MSM directing folk here and to other pro-indy sites? Something along the lines of “want a different point of view” or “for answers about independence go to ….”
I regularly cite this site and others when on MSM, as do others, but a wee ad might be worth a try if you’ve enough questions for the poll and there’s enough cash.
As for Blair “No”, quelle surprise. I think it might be a bit miffed at his admission of lying to the public for 15 years was exposed by the Rev’s transcription of the Bathgate meeting.
@ Training Day:
It’s difficult to penetrate McDougall’s tortured syntax, but I think his response translates as ‘I’m scared’.
You could add to that “………..I want my mummy!” You know, with Westminster being the mother of all parliaments and all that
Pardon the pun, couldn’t resist it!