Wings Over Scotland

Off-topic

Posted on January 02, 1968 by Rev. Stuart Campbell

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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Michael McCabe says:

3 February, 2018 at 2:58 pm

You Gotta Move link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

3 February, 2018 at 3:25 pm

A really good night last night welcoming the guests to the SiU Burns Supper.

Highlight of the evening for me was Murdo’s face lighting up with a big grin when Ian B stopped him and shook his hand. He really did look most pleased to Meet Ian.

Nice too to have finally met you Tinto.

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

3 February, 2018 at 4:14 pm

Well I didn’t think I’d ever agree with Jacob Rees Mogg but I suppose a broken watch. Of course HM civil service is politically bias, half the Treasury were awarded gongs for terrorising Scottish grannies in 2014. However, that’s the extent of my agreement with JRM, who appears to be a throwback to a less civilised time. A man with apparently zero appreciation of what life is like outside of his extremely privileged bubble.

Sociological Perspectives on Austerity

At the core of austerity measures are cuts in state expenditure. The outcomes (reduced benefits, wages, pensions and state services) have been severe for the more disadvantaged in society, who have experienced a significant fall in living standards and growing insecurity. There are profound differences – of geography and generation, gender and ‘race’ as well as class – in how austerity is experienced. These inequalities are increasingly taking on a spatial dimension, with the social zoning of cities and the disparities between regions becoming more pronounced. The south-east of England is becoming increasingly distinct, though is itself the locale of deep and growing inequalities.

Austerity includes a massive rolling back of the boundaries of the state – a restructuring of state services. Many services are simply ceasing to be provided or funded by the state, with 20% cuts to most government departments, local
government, the BBC etc. Third sector organisations, which are largely funded by the state, have been subject to similar pressures. On the grounds of increasing efficiency, other services are being marketised, ‘modernised’ and privatised, with the massive and growing use of contractors, which in many cases are large US-based corporations (e.g. G4S, Capita). Thus austerity is being used as a rationale for fundamental reform of the state, and of the relationship of the individual with the state, for which there was no manifesto commitment.

In the process, some argue, we are seeing the dismantling of (for example) the NHS in England. Even if this is to over-state the situation, the NHS and welfare state are experiencing major reform, driven by the austerity policies which were introduced to resolve the banking crisis. One consequence of austerity is a predictable growth of concern about immigration and threats to UK sovereignty. UKIP’s agenda, reflected in the Daily Mail, focuses on cultural swamping and the threat to England and Englishness – and represents a powerful political force (36% of the vote in England in the 2014 European elections). Not confined to the Daily Mail, we see too an increasing stigmatisation of poverty. Such processes, commonly, are exacerbated at times of recession….

link to gbz.hu-berlin.de

the cultural politics of austerity: past and present in austere times

Abstract

Through the strictures of the global financial downturn and its aftermath citizens have been urged to ‘keep calm and carry on’. This slogan, first coined in the 1940s and revived in the 2000s, found its way into political rhetoric, media commentary and popular culture and was embraced with consummate irony and aplomb by many Britons. Some cultural critics on the left, in particular, regarded the revival of this and many other rhetorical returns to the Second World War with deep suspicion, spying in them a propagandist drive to manage a citizenry beleaguered by financial cuts and the rolling back of the welfare state. For critics, the discourses and practices of mid-twentieth-century austerity, revived and revised for modern times, were worryingly nostalgic and literally retrogressive. Surely, the re-emergence of mid-century archetypes (the resourceful homemaker, the resilient working class, the middle class with upper lips held quite stiff, the frugal senior citizen) heralded an unwelcome return to the gender and classed politics of another period, when inequalities and material deprivations were tolerated by the quiet majority for ‘the common good’? Rebecca Bramall’s insightful book The Cultural Politics of Austerity tackles these concerns head on while also asking us to think differently and more progressively about the opportunities of the current moment.

link to link.springer.com

‘People in this country have had enough of experts’: Brexit and the paradoxes of populism

Abstract

In June 2016, the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union, creating massive political turmoil and controversy. Our aim in this paper is to contribute to a discussion about how to analyze such critical moments in policy and politics. Rather than searching for one ‘real’ cause (whether the micro-politics of the Conservative Party or popular disaffection from neo-liberalism), we offer a form of conjunctural analysis that highlights issues of multiplicity and heterogeneity. We sketch this approach and then explore two puzzles that have particular pertinence for Critical Policy Studies. One is the puzzle of populism: how new imaginings and representations of the ‘British people’ were constructed. The second is the puzzle of expertise; how antipathy to ‘expert’ knowledge was shaped to challenge British and European ‘elites’. Conjunctural analysis, we argue, offers a vital means of engaging with such puzzles, and of grasping the heterogeneous and contradictory forces, tendencies, and pressures that enabled Brexit.

link to tandfonline.com

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

3 February, 2018 at 5:47 pm

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 February, 2018 at 5:53 pm

And great to meet you too, Thepnr. We intellectuals must stick together, y’know.

Favourite line from last night was when Mr. A. “Asbestos Pants” Carmichael breenged up the stairs after Bob The Builder had called him a liar and Ian Brotherhood said, “Alistair, I can see up yer kilt!”

Nature Notes No. 351:

I have a potted azalea in front of my patio door and I noticed a wee goldcrest today flitting from twig to twig in a most energetic fashion. I’ve never seen one so close up. I thought it might be eating insects caught in some spiders’ webs but it then flew down to move along the bottom of the window frame of the patio door, cocking its tail and moving restlessly. It stayed for well over half an hour, an amazing display.

I eventually worked out it had spotted its own reflection in the glass and thought it was either a female or another cock bird, hence the agitation.

Thought you might be interested, Smallaxe. I know you and Gaia are one.

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

3 February, 2018 at 6:02 pm

I’m With Her link to youtube.com

Reply
Marie Clark. says:

3 February, 2018 at 6:35 pm

Hi Tinto, I hope that Harvey has come oot o’ the huff. You were quite right to sheild him from SiU, poor soud shouldnae be exposed to that nonsense. Talking of being exposed, was liar, liar pants on fire a true Scotsman, or just a kid oan yin like the rest o’ the Britnats. Asking for a friend, cough.

I’ll leave you with a wee song.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

3 February, 2018 at 6:39 pm

@Tinto Chiel

Yes Ian was on fire right enough, another good one was the ex Labour Government minister on his way in that he recognised and shouted his name.

When the guy turned to look at Ian he raised his right hand in a clenched fist and shouted “Solidarity Brother” LOL.

Cheers Ian for all the laughs

Reply
Marie Clark says:

3 February, 2018 at 6:52 pm

Hi Tinto, has Harvey come oot o’ his huff yet. I think you did well to sheild him from SiU. Poor soul shouldnae be exposed to that lot. Speaking of exposed, was liar, liar pants on fire a true
Scotsman, or a kid oan Britnat version. Asking for a friend, cough.

Here’s a wee song.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 February, 2018 at 6:57 pm

Tinto,

I’m always extremely interested in the amazing wonders that you see outside your patio door. When are you getting the rest of the patio?
I am one with Gaia as you know. Know also, that only when we choose another path can we change the destination.

James Taylor:”Gaia”
link to youtube.com

Namaste

Reply
cearc says:

3 February, 2018 at 7:01 pm

Well done, guys. Glad you have fun last night.

TC, I see goldcrests quite a lot, they nest in mature spruce. From the bathroom you can watch them flitting in and out, nest building and feeding, right outside the window. Also from the kitchen, different tree, different goldcrests. Beautiful wee birdies.

Reply
Clapper57 says:

3 February, 2018 at 7:55 pm

@ Marie Clark

“I really wish that folk, who should know better would just ignore the Rock & Coco show”.

Yes Marie…imagine the wannabe keyboard warriors typing their ‘masterpiece’, re-editing and re-reading it over and over then convincing themselves how clever they are to have written such an eloquent and intelligent post before submitting it with a sense of glory and a ‘that’s telt them’ feeble sense of pride ….anticipating the responses while mentally forming their next post………and then…..after submitting…nowt but tumbleweed…..no one takes the bait….no one cares enough to argue or challenge the post….the individual/s , the numpty / numpties have targeted, do not care enough about the numpy/numpties personal slights to even respond…….the deflation would indeed be tangible and ever so public….to be ignored and one’s efforts to be considered so insignificant ( or crap) to the extent that no one wants to waste their time responding……delicious but sadly not a reality.

In truth it put me off posting on WOS ( maybe not a bad thing lol)…. as it frequently descends into not so much a debate and source of information via the many interesting and informative dedicated WOS contributors, but an agenda driven cesspit for certain dubious individuals intent on monopolising and deflecting the argument away from the topic so wonderfully researched and presented by Mr Campbell.

They know who to wind up and how to wind them up…perhaps vanity should take second place to reason because this is a no win situation and they ain’t gonna stop until they eventually meet a wall of silence…..let them piss in the wind as it is them who will smell and look ridiculous….imagine writing constant contentious and offensive posts and no one but no one acknowledges what you have written….to continue doing so would make you look like a fanny of the highest order…..bigger fanny than the fanny you already are….to any new reader or browser to WOS site it would be so so obvious who was the fanny/s but also the fact the fanny/s are being ignored and yet still persist with their offensive posts…. well…. one would definitely have them filed under Fanny/s….and frankly best ignored….forever !!!

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

3 February, 2018 at 8:21 pm

OK, a rare input from me to ‘off-topic’.

It’s that night again…

link to youtube.com

Reply
Marie Clark says:

3 February, 2018 at 8:24 pm

Indeed Clapper 57. I just get so fed up with it, every goddamned day.The only thing to do is just ignore them.The MT seems to be getting shorter as you have to scroll past so much bilge.Sigh.

Anyway, I’m away tae pit ma feet up, and see if he who thinks he should be obeyed, will pour his wife a dram.

Here’s a wee song that takes me back quite a few years. Always makes me shiver, that absolutely amazing sax. SAX, I said sax. Biyee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou96vLl–e4

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

3 February, 2018 at 8:28 pm

I think this was released in 1974 or thereaboots. I thought it was an excellent single – a cover that was 180° different to the original.

Of course, because I liked it and bought it, its failure as a chart entry was guaranteed. What I call “The McTernan Syndrome”…

link to youtube.com

BTW: Mike Berry had some musical/acting career. See here:-

link to en.wikipedia.org

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 February, 2018 at 8:37 pm

Marie: regarding Carmichael’s nether regions, I can thankfully say I was not in line of sight. Ian had to have some emergency cider soon after so I gather it was pretty traumatic.

Harvey is still a bit grumpy. He’ll cheer up tomorrow once we go on a truffle and unicorn hunt.

Smallaxe: patio will be completed when Chuckemup & Runne (contractors) return to finish the job. Looking forward to it, and all for a non-returnable deposit of £15000! Bargain, soanitis.

“Beautiful wee birdies.” Indeed they are, cearc. I hear them regularly in my garden and down the bird reserve but they’re usually hard to spot up in trees ‘cos they’re so wee. I heard some siskins doing their zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! two days ago, so the year is quickening. Gladdens the heart.

Gaia, ya bass!

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

3 February, 2018 at 9:15 pm

Hey link to youtube.com

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:00 pm

For no particular reason…

Rory Gallagher, ‘Hands Up’ –

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:07 pm

“For no particular reason…”

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:10 pm

It’s not an accurate account of what happened last night in Glasgow, but the sentiment is there and it’s a braw tune regardless.

Thin Lizzy, ‘The Boys Are Back In Town’ –

link to youtube.com

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:17 pm

I recall the last time I offered this link, Thepnr didn’t rate it. Onnyhoo, have had ‘Celtic Conections’ on as my aural wallpaper and I was reminded of this so I’m gonna post it again – and I would urge Thepnr to follow the links.

The first time I watched this video, my optical organs over-lubricated, specially when the pipers came in.

Here’s the video but check out the background links following.

link to youtube.com

Background info:-

link to maidofheaven.com

link to en.wikipedia.org

link to en.wikipedia.org

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:35 pm

WOW! It seems that “Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce” is more highly regarded in Europe, than it is in Scotland. The European continent seems to have a better grasp of Scottish history than the majority of Scots have.

link to youtube.com

And this, for you metal fans…

link to youtube.com

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

3 February, 2018 at 10:43 pm

After the generous remark earlier from Smallaxe about my Buddy Holly Show last night I played Matchboxes “Loves Made A Fool Of You ” he had provided a YouTube link to and came across the best hour I’ve enjoyed in ages.
link to youtube.com a Buddy Holly Tribute hosted by Kris Kristofferson with everybody who’s anybody and some absolutely fabulous performances.

I am left in no doubt that the invention of the electric guitar in the early fifties changed the world

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

3 February, 2018 at 11:17 pm

@ Dave McEwan Hill. Well Alright link to youtube.com

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

4 February, 2018 at 12:16 am

Thanks a lot Michael, I enjoyed that and I’ve had that version on my show last year. Nanci did a lot with the Crickets (appeared with them at the venue at Paisley Road Toll in Glasgow for instance)and that is a particularly great version of Well Alright,which I think vies with Not Fade Away as Buddy’s best composition. Blind Faith’s Well Alright is a cracker too (as is Santana’s).

That was Sonny Curtis to her left. I think his earliest recorded song was “Rock Around with Ollie Vee” during Buddy and the Crickets unsuccessful short spell with Decca.

BTW Jerry Allison is I think the best drummer by a long way of the rock’n’roll era and his very individual style contributed hugely to the recordings. He is the last surviving member of the original Crickets.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

4 February, 2018 at 10:07 am

Just to cheer everybody up.

Billie Holiday:”Gloomy Sunday”
link to youtube.com

Reply
cearc says:

4 February, 2018 at 11:08 am

A sparkling sunday here. Birds singing, sun shining. Have a great time folks.

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

4 February, 2018 at 11:09 am

Blind Faith Well All Right

link to youtube.com

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

4 February, 2018 at 2:22 pm

Talking about faith, Brexit is bad, mky.

The Political Economy of Brexit and the UK’s
National Business Model.

Brexit Aesthetic and the politics of infrastructure
investment

We need to talk about infrastructure

The British Business Model (BBM) – which combines a dominant financial sector, flexible labour market regime and openness to international capital flows – describes a system that reproduces inequality and is economically unstable. Its precipitous decline has been discussed so frequently that ‘declinism’ is now a recognised thing (Tomlinson, 2009). High and increasing levels of social and economic inequality, low levels of political responsiveness, geographical polarisation of wealth and opportunity, financial predation, atomized labour markets, low productivity, failing welfare health and care provision, relentless indebtedness are now defining features of the BBM. Many of these factors have or will be linked to the Leave vote of June 2016 forcing the question: was Brexit the consequence of a constitutional failure in British politics or the cause of it?

Culture and economy have played an important role in the UK’s EU Referendum and the rise of populist movements across the modern industrial world (see Inglehardt and Norris, 2016; Curtice, 2016). But their analytical separation has avoided the question of how they relate, especially in relation to policy decisions. Immigration, for example, played a key role in the Leave campaign but the impression that immigrant demand was overburdening social services cannot be understood without acknowledging how austerity agendas cut back on their supply. Austerity hit hard on structurally weak economies in the UK (Fothergill and Beatty, 2016) just as refugees were more likely to be distributed to poorer wards as local authorities had to take on national obligations (House of Commons Home Affairs Committee, 2017). These are the areas that also voted Leave.

The BBM offers an institutionalist account for exploring the UK’s economy after Brexit. We can see what reproduces the failures outlined above and how these relate to policy agendas. Infrastructure ‘provides the services that enable society and the economy to function’ (Armitt et al., 2013: 17): it is central to the to the way a country operates, delineating the character of the economy, the relationship between state and society, the forms of public procurement and the ownership of critical assets. The procedures used for infrastructural investment and the agendas that they respond to transcend history and at their core differentiate one country from another. These long standing infrastructure investments are typically captured in institutionalist accounts. They may extend over a generation and certainly beyond the mandate of one government and the path dependency of infrastructural investment matches well with an institutionalist emphasis on the costs of change and the routines enabled by infrastructure investments.

One of the failings of an institutionalist approach is that it can normalise, rather than reveal, existing hierarchies. The “echo chamber” politics of the Referendum debates reinforced how representational bias informed both expert and post-truth positions in the debates over Brexit. The rejection of the political establishment (including EU membership) expressed in the scale of the Leave vote may have implied that the BBM failed to deliver the infrastructure capable of supporting society and the economy. In identifying a ‘new infrastructural turn’ Ash Armitt aims to make sense of human being and sociality in the city, in ways that acknowledge the ‘liveliness of socio-technical systems’ (ibid. p138). Infrastructure, or the lack thereof, has agency and can be productive of social experience. It therefore offers a narration of the social life of a place that allows us to look beyond institutions and the capabilities they offer to recognize what informed that choice of institution, and that type of infrastructure….

link to speri.dept.shef.ac.uk

* A BBC sponsored report has just found that non-church going Anglicans are, on the whole, hostile to immigration and are pro-Brexit.

@BLiS___d
What is the most important to you as an accounting unit, ‘British’ nationalism or the welfare of your constituents?

Critical political economy, free movement and Brexit: Beyond the progressive’s dilemma

Abstract

The progressive’s dilemma suggests that a trade-off exists between, on the one hand, labour and welfare rights underpinned by solidarity and shared identity and, on the other hand, open immigration regimes. With reference to debates on EU free movement in the United Kingdom, it is argued (1) that a progressive European critical political economy literature of the Left has a tendency to accept this dilemma and resolve it in favour of the former; (2) that it does so because it erroneously conflates the free movement of people with the (increasingly neoliberal) free movement of goods, capital and services; and (3) that it could and should treat human mobility as qualitatively different and, consequently, need not accept the terms of the progressive’s dilemma. The argument has important implications for a progressive politics in general and for the Left’s (particularly the Labour Party’s) position in the United Kingdom on free movement (and, by extension, on Brexit).

link to journals.sagepub.com

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

4 February, 2018 at 2:23 pm

Talking about faith, Brexit is bad, mky.

The Political Economy of Brexit and the UK’s
National Business Model.

Brexit Aesthetic and the politics of infrastructure
investment

We need to talk about infrastructure

The British Business Model (BBM) – which combines a dominant financial sector, flexible labour market regime and openness to international capital flows – describes a system that reproduces inequality and is economically unstable. Its precipitous decline has been discussed so frequently that ‘declinism’ is now a recognised thing (Tomlinson, 2009). High and increasing levels of social and economic inequality, low levels of political responsiveness, geographical polarisation of wealth and opportunity, financial predation, atomized labour markets, low productivity, failing welfare health and care provision, relentless indebtedness are now defining features of the BBM. Many of these factors have or will be linked to the Leave vote of June 2016 forcing the question: was Brexit the consequence of a constitutional failure in British politics or the cause of it?

Culture and economy have played an important role in the UK’s EU Referendum and the rise of populist movements across the modern industrial world (see Inglehardt and Norris, 2016; Curtice, 2016). But their analytical separation has avoided the question of how they relate, especially in relation to policy decisions. Immigration, for example, played a key role in the Leave campaign but the impression that immigrant demand was overburdening social services cannot be understood without acknowledging how austerity agendas cut back on their supply. Austerity hit hard on structurally weak economies in the UK (Fothergill and Beatty, 2016) just as refugees were more likely to be distributed to poorer wards as local authorities had to take on national obligations (House of Commons Home Affairs Committee, 2017). These are the areas that also voted Leave.

The BBM offers an institutionalist account for exploring the UK’s economy after Brexit. We can see what reproduces the failures outlined above and how these relate to policy agendas. Infrastructure ‘provides the services that enable society and the economy to function’ (Armitt et al., 2013: 17): it is central to the to the way a country operates, delineating the character of the economy, the relationship between state and society, the forms of public procurement and the ownership of critical assets. The procedures used for infrastructural investment and the agendas that they respond to transcend history and at their core differentiate one country from another. These long standing infrastructure investments are typically captured in institutionalist accounts. They may extend over a generation and certainly beyond the mandate of one government and the path dependency of infrastructural investment matches well with an institutionalist emphasis on the costs of change and the routines enabled by infrastructure investments.

One of the failings of an institutionalist approach is that it can normalise, rather than reveal, existing hierarchies. The “echo chamber” politics of the Referendum debates reinforced how representational bias informed both expert and post-truth positions in the debates over Brexit. The rejection of the political establishment (including EU membership) expressed in the scale of the Leave vote may have implied that the BBM failed to deliver the infrastructure capable of supporting society and the economy. In identifying a ‘new infrastructural turn’ Ash Armitt aims to make sense of human being and sociality in the city, in ways that acknowledge the ‘liveliness of socio-technical systems’ (ibid. p138). Infrastructure, or the lack thereof, has agency and can be productive of social experience. It therefore offers a narration of the social life of a place that allows us to look beyond institutions and the capabilities they offer to recognize what informed that choice of institution, and that type of infrastructure….

link to speri.dept.shef.ac.uk

* A BBC sponsored report has just found that non-church going Anglicans are, on the whole, hostile to immigration and are pro-Brexit.

@BLiS___d
What is the most important to you as an accounting unit, ‘British’ nationalism or the welfare of your constituents?

Critical political economy, free movement and Brexit: Beyond the progressive’s dilemma

Abstract

The progressive’s dilemma suggests that a trade-off exists between, on the one hand, labour and welfare rights underpinned by solidarity and shared identity and, on the other hand, open immigration regimes. With reference to debates on EU free movement in the United Kingdom, it is argued (1) that a progressive European critical political economy literature of the Left has a tendency to accept this dilemma and resolve it in favour of the former; (2) that it does so because it erroneously conflates the free movement of people with the (increasingly neoliberal) free movement of goods, capital and services; and (3) that it could and should treat human mobility as qualitatively different and, consequently, need not accept the terms of the progressive’s dilemma. The argument has important implications for a progressive politics in general and for the Left’s (particularly the Labour Party’s) position in the United Kingdom on free movement (and, by extension, on Brexit).

link to journals.sagepub.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

4 February, 2018 at 3:47 pm

Here you go Ian B and Tinto, you too Smallaxe.

Johann was there after all, don’t the men look handsome in their kilts

Reply
Thepnr says:

4 February, 2018 at 3:48 pm

Oops forgot the link.

link to twitter.com

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

4 February, 2018 at 4:41 pm

OK, so it looks as if Scotland is defending itself from an expansionist form of English cultural nationalism, characterised by increasingly authoritarian, right-wing populism and sentiments of Anglican religiosity. A state of affairs that is almost certainly related to the ‘strategy’ of austerity and the widespread social insecurity it has produced.

@Church of Scotland
Do you support this state of affairs or the well-being of your congregation?

Cultural nationalism

Cultural nationalism generally refers to ideas and practices that relate to the intended revival of a purported national community’s culture. If political nationalism is focused on the achievement of political autonomy, cultural nationalism is focused on the cultivation of a nation. Here the vision of the nation is not a political organisation, but a moral community. As such, cultural nationalism sets out to provide a vision of the nation’s identity, history and destiny. The key agents of cultural nationalism are intellectuals and artists, who seek to convey their vision of the nation to the wider community. The need to articulate and express this vision tends to be felt most acutely during times of social, cultural and political upheaval resulting from an encounter with modernity. Cultural nationalism often occurs in the early phase of a national movement, sometimes before an explicitly political nationalism has appeared. But it can also recur in long-established national states (see Hutchinson 2013)….

link to stateofnationalism.eu

Religion and Nationalism: Four Approaches

Abstract: Building on recent literature, this paper discusses four ways of studying the relation between religion and nationalism. The first is to treat religion and nationalism, along with ethnicity and race, as analogous phenomena. The second is to specify ways in which religion helps explain things about nationalism – its origin, its power, or its distinctive character in
particular cases. The third is to treat religion as part of nationalism, and to specify modes of interpenetration and intertwining. The fourth is to posit a distinctively religious form of nationalism. The paper concludes by reconsidering the much-criticized understanding of nationalism as a distinctively secular phenomenon.

link to sscnet.ucla.edu

NATIONALISM, ETHNICITY AND DEMOCRACY:
CONTEMPORARY MANIFESTATIONS

Nationalism in the Contemporary Era

Protest nationalism

Not unlike ethno-nationalism, the phenomenon of what we call protest nationalism can broadly be explained as a response to perceived social, political, cultural or economic insecurity brought about or subsequently exploited, directly or indirectly, by state policy.

1. Right-wing nationalism in Western Europe

According to conventional wisdom, wealth, individual freedoms and political maturity should have inoculated Europe against xenophobic and parochial forms of nationalism and ushered in a heightened sense of tolerance and acceptance of the “other.” On the other side of the coin, modernization theory assumed that the experience of industrialization and urbanization would gradually reduce ethnic differences and ultimately assimilate all minority groups (principally through the educational and occupational systems) into a single homogeneous culture defined by the boundaries of the nation state.

Yet, as recent European history has shown, xenophobic nationalism, embodying characteristics of neo-fascist ideology, can also emerge among groups within so-called advanced societies. These reactions have tended to flourish within a more general context of socio-economic decline and political change. The ensuing insecurities have found their principal target in the settled or newly arriving immigrant communities. As many analysts have pointed out, at a time of economic stress, all ‘foreign’ elements and new arrivals are bound to be resented – even ethnic Germans from ex-GDR wishing to settle in Germany. “The Germans have been gripped by fear,” reported Der Spiegel in 1992. “Fear of strangers, fear for their jobs, fear of inflation and recession, fear also of the unavoidable impression that the island of prosperity on which they live can no longer be preserved.”11

These phenomena explain in part the popular appeal of right-wing parties and groups in Western Europe12 which seek to defend so-called national and cultural identity and norms on the basis of reactionary, authoritarian and racist slogans advocating for the most part the severe restriction of immigration and asylum policies. The phenomenon or, as some put it, the traumatism, of immigration has been used as a convenient target for public discontent and has become a politically important and sensitive issue.

Some also explain the popular successes of these groups or parties in terms of the reaction to the political disorientation arising from the rapid collapse of the communist menace and the accompanying psychological need to transfer the “enemy” image to new sources of threat. As has traditionally been the case in history, most notably with the Jews, in times of economic crisis and social instability, ethno-nationalistic sentiments offer groups an opportunity to put the blame on others outside their own community.

A further attraction of these right-wing parties appears to lie in their promise to eliminate corruption, misery and unemployment and their ability to exploit people’s aspiration for a better life. Sadly, they speak for those Europeans who have lost faith in more moderate or mainstream political parties,13 who are disoriented by post-communist upheavals and who fear interlopers from other countries and other cultures.14

The real threat of these parties is not that they will take over power in Europe. Their pernicious impact lies in the fact that they are forcing the center-right parties to shift further to the right, threatening, in some cases, to undermine the very foundations of democracy. In France, for instance, the ruling conservatives have stolen the far-right’s thunder by tightening French citizenship laws and officially calling for “zero immigration,” leading to the observation that the moderate right is simply trying to “outflank the National Front by being even tougher on immigrants” (The Economist, 27 April 1996, p. 33). The German government has similarly restricted the country’s asylum policies, a step that can hardly be unrelated to mounting xenophobic sentiment expressed not only by fringe groups, but also by far-right parties. In Britain, asylum and immigration policies have been tightened to a point where state policies are considered by some to seriously breach liberal values and to “betoken a dangerous defensiveness” (The Economist, 4 May 1996, p. 16)….

link to gmu.edu

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

4 February, 2018 at 9:31 pm

What are you doing on Off Topic?

Reply
Smallaxe says:

5 February, 2018 at 9:19 am

Bob Marley vs. Funkstar De Luxe:”Sun Is Shining”;
link to youtube.com

Reply
cearc says:

5 February, 2018 at 9:32 am

‘Tis indeed.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

5 February, 2018 at 10:15 am

Enjoy it, cearc, my friend, I can see clouds over Cumbria from here, probably the SNPs fault they do it deliberately you know.

Levellers:”What A Beautiful Day”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

5 February, 2018 at 6:31 pm

I’ve been doing some research on “Willie Wastle” and came across this fine young fellow doing his stuff:

link to youtube.com

You could argue “grunzie” should be pronounced “grunyie” but his voice is full of character and he really brings the poem to life.

My pet hate at Burns clubs is when the club has “A Loyal Toast”. There is much frothing when you don’t stand up and then remind them Burns would never have toasted a Hanoverian monarch. It drives them mental, and of course they are: I’ve been told a good few times by club members that Robert Burns would have voted no, usually by Irony By-Pass office bearers weighed down by their tinsel show, an’ a’ that.

Dork-Spanglers all…..

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Tinto Chiel says:

5 February, 2018 at 7:21 pm

Want some music with that?

link to youtube.com

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chasanderson200 says:

5 February, 2018 at 9:40 pm

WINGERS NIGHT OUT

Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes
Junction of Bighty Ave and Happer Cres

April 7th (Weekend of Declaration of Arbroath)

The Otters Head:
This is a recently refurbished pub in the Woodside Area at the east side of Glenrothes. The former bar area has been booked for our exclusive use for the night Capacity approx 70)
More info on the pub is available on the internet.

Food:
An amount of sandwiches and sausage rolls will be provided but due to uncertainty re attendance when they are gone, they are gone.
A chippie/pizza place is across the road and the landlord has no objection to folk bringing in food from these.

Drink:
A plentiful supply of the usual Draght and Bottled beers in addition to a range of whiskies, flavoured gins and vodkas. Teas and coffees also available although I doubt if they will be needed.

Entertainment:
Anyone wishing to bring Guitars, moothies, and other melodic noise-making devices feel free to do so, the landlord has no objection.
A short Scottish quiz (30 questions) has also been prepared
with a unique grand prize for the winners.

Transport:
Cars
For those arriving by car ample parking facilities are close by.
Bus
In addition to local town services a number of express services also stop within 150 yards, these are:-
Dundee – Edinburgh X54
Dundee – Kirkcaldy X53
St Andrews – Glasgow Airport X24
Leven – Glasgow X26
St Andrews – Edinburgh X59
Train
The East Coast main railway line runs through Markinch Station (5 minutes away by Taxi)
The Fife Circle line runs through Thornton which is also a 5 minute taxi ride away.

Overnight Stays.
The following are the affordable and easily accessable. Each is within 5-10 minutes by taxi and further details of each can be found on the net.
Holiday Inn Express
Premier inn
Golden Acorn (Wotherspoons)
Drummonds (Markinch)
Gilvenbank Hotel.

That is all for now folks, I shall be reminding and updating on a regular basis now that my tech is operational again.

can you give me some indication of whether you will be there as this will give me a chance to organise/clarify anything else I may not have covered here.

Hope to see lots of you there

Reply
Thepnr says:

5 February, 2018 at 11:01 pm

@chasanderson200

Well done Chas, you’ve done a good piece of work there you can count me in for starters. C’mon you lot the more the merrier.

Reply
crazycat says:

5 February, 2018 at 11:02 pm

@ chasanderson200

Thanks for organizing this; I’ll try to be there, plus or minus a few depending on the arrangements I can make.

(A few = 2 or 3)

Reply
liz g says:

5 February, 2018 at 11:50 pm

chasanderson @ 9.40
Thank you for organising that …… sounds like a good night!
Count me in..

If the landlord is ok with it we could all bring a dish of something each,and get a nice wee buffet going on.
Obviously it’s up to you but let us know if you want us to do that?

Reply
Cactus says:

6 February, 2018 at 12:11 am

Mornin’ chasanderson200 ~

Ahm already there.

Cheers.

Aye.

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chasanderson200 says:

6 February, 2018 at 12:18 am

liz g
Liz, I”ll double-check and get back to you later this week.

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Smallaxe says:

6 February, 2018 at 9:00 am

“Baby, It’s Cold Outside” Tom Jones and Cerys Matthews;
link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

6 February, 2018 at 10:39 am

Given the weather, I feel a peom coming on:

link to poetryfoundation.org

Awaiting hammers……

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Fred says:

6 February, 2018 at 11:19 am

Nice one Tinto, fill yer boots! Robert Frost!

link to kezle.com

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Smallaxe says:

6 February, 2018 at 12:43 pm

Peotry is it, Tinto,

The Semmitt is a little vest
You put it on to warm your chest
Alas when Summer comes again
The end.

My Name is Bill and I’m a Headcase,
link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

6 February, 2018 at 3:18 pm

That link didn’t work for me, Fred. Was it this one? One of my faves:

link to poetryfoundation.org

Smallaxe: as usual your exquisite poetical forms have pure brung the tears to my care-worn baby blues. Your soul is too, too sensitive for this cruel, quotidian world, where dreams are trampled and the butterfly of hope is broken upon the wheel.

Btw, could you drone me up a five-spot? The gas-metre’s just popped it.

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

6 February, 2018 at 4:06 pm

@TC –

If you get some hammers be sure and hang on to one to knock yer joints back into working order after the game tonight. Properly baltic oot there…

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Tinto Chiel says:

6 February, 2018 at 4:22 pm

It sure is, Ian. I’m still not 100%: have refused whisky macs from Mrs TC and am struggling re tonight also, just to give you an idea of how out of sorts I am.

I thought a young sophisticate like wot you are would enjoy this trip down memory lane for all them Young Romantics who are no longer so young.

link to youtube.com

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Fred says:

6 February, 2018 at 8:10 pm

That’s the one Tinto, U know I’m shite at these links. Quite fond of De La Mare’s “The Listeners!” tae! Off Topic’s Bloomsbury phase, what!

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Tinto Chiel says:

6 February, 2018 at 11:06 pm

Quite, Fred. We have brung a shed load of culture on here, youse and me.

Quality Street, soanweurr.

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cearc says:

6 February, 2018 at 11:46 pm

Refused a whisky mac? Should we be crowd-funding for flowers? (unless, of course, she was actually just threatening to dump ginger in your best malt unless you did the dishes).

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:10 am

Spring must be springing,

“I Can Hear the Grass Grow” The Move;
link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:10 am

cearc: even more amazing, SWMBO had bought one of those wee 10cl bottles of grain whisky you get as offcuts in The Whisky Shop just so my malt would remain unsullied by the Crabbie’s.

Wottawummin!

-4 C where I am, which is probably not where anybody else is.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:22 am

Everybody’s got to be somewhere, Tinto, even in;

“The Ghetto” Donny Hathaway;
link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:26 am

Morning, Smallaxe. I always thought Trevor Burton looked the most completely psychopathic one of The Move.

My strawberries are coming up already:

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:53 am

Thanks for the Hathaway, by the way. Never heard that before but it was funky as Freuchie, I think you’ll agree.

I’ve just checked and I am somewhere, but as I write it’s not the same place as it was when I wrote it, unless there is a crease in the space-time continuum.

“World is crazier and more of it than we think.”

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 10:28 am

Tinto,

Your strawberries are coming up and you’ve discovered a hole in the space-time continuum that’s as funky as Freuchie. What the funk more could you ask for in one morning?

“Be Thankful For What You Got” William de Vaughn;
link to youtube.com

“The world is crazier” are you sure it’s the world?

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 10:47 am

Yon William’s a smoothie, isn’t he?

I put gangsta whitewalls on my Ford Anglia and tried driving to Ardnamurchan with my top down but I got stuck on the Corran Ferry.

““The world is crazier” are you sure it’s the world?”

Yes: the alternative is unthinkable. I think you’ll find the prophet is often without honour in his/her own country. Where there is no vision, the people perish, mon vieux.

I keep getting these Deep Thoughts. Wish Nana was around to see them, she knows a seer when she sees one.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 11:13 am

Gansta whitewalls are supposed to be on the wheels, not the car and driving topless will only get you arrested or hospitalised with severe nipple nip in this climate.

Your mention of the ferry reminded me of the cover that Bryan Ferry made of John Lennon’s “Jealous Guy” so here’s Frankie Millar to sing it for you.
“Jealous Guy”
link to youtube.com
I looked for Nana’s wonderful rendition of this song but I seem to have misplaced it atm.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 12:06 pm

Gansta? WTF?

Certainly not this;
link to youtube.com
Paradise Found.

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 12:31 pm

That guy’s so weird he should be here on O/T, Smallaxe.

There’ll be a welcome in the hillside, etc.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 12:52 pm

Do you think he’s weird enough, Tinto?

See here, for weird;
link to youtube.com

And here;
link to youtube.com

Well?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 1:10 pm

*Strokes chin, shakes head (can’t do it the other way around)*

Rarely have I seen such twisted depravity, Smallaxe. The first in particular was simply fowl.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 1:41 pm

That one may have been simply fowl, Tinto, but we can’t chicken out of our duties in monitoring O/T in case some sensible person slips through the net, this would cause chaos here in our little Shangri La of looniness. Wot say you, sir!

Shangri La;
link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 1:54 pm

That young shaver could give ME a run for my money in the Strange, Unnatural Beauty stakes, although I think my dimple just edges it.

Was that two neutron stars blootering the bejaysus out of each other near the start of that clip?

link to physics.stackexchange.com

I believe we need neutron stars to produce iridium and gold and other heavy elements.

It’s a funny old game, Saint.

Where’s Chic(k) when you need him? He was a great expatiater on physics ‘n’ that.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 2:40 pm

I agree, Tinto. While Chic(k) is absent maybe we should brush up on our physics n’ stuff.
link to youtube.com

That seems clear enough, dintit?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 3:02 pm

Indubitably, old sport, as the blushful Hippocrene, although on this occasion the content was obscured by something called “Date Russian Singles Online. Chat now”.

Probs Putin trying to steal our unclear secrets.

Ye cannae be up to them, the Ruskies.

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Smallaxe says:

7 February, 2018 at 3:20 pm

The Ruskies, or Farleys as I like to call them are welcome to what is sitting at Faslane, maybe they could get them to work properly.

Sensible chaps, those Ruskies;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

7 February, 2018 at 3:37 pm

England football fans, be afraid, be very afraid!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

7 February, 2018 at 3:50 pm

Rather coarse chaps, imo.

Wouldn’t get into my Pilates class, that’s for sure.

Reply
Liz g says:

7 February, 2018 at 8:06 pm

Robert Peffers has just told us on the MT
That his youngest sons funeral was yesterday
Just thought everyone would like to know…..
Heartbreaking!!

Reply
Fred says:

7 February, 2018 at 8:12 pm

Tragic news Liz yet Robert takes time to post on Wings!

Reply
Liz g says:

7 February, 2018 at 8:20 pm

Aye Fred he is a trooper right enough.
I swear to lucifer if that Craig starts with him in the near future….
Well….ye know!

Reply
K1 says:

7 February, 2018 at 9:28 pm

Aye Liz g…he’ll huv mair than you tae answer tae if he starts anything wi him in the next while.

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Liz g says:

7 February, 2018 at 10:17 pm

K1 @ 9.28
It’s only right K1…while Robert is perfectly capable of answering anyone……and….deploying a thick skin towards personal abuse (the “verbal bullying “ shit “) sometimes..just sometimes….it’s nothing but cruel .
And I am not prepared to tolerate that.
Never have been
Never will be…….Nobody decent would be..
And I suspect we are not the only ones….

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

8 February, 2018 at 9:31 am

Liz g
Re Wingers get together on 7th April in Otters Head in Woodside, Glenrothes.
I must admit that I had not thought of your suggestion re bring our own buffet but it strikes me as a good idea in the particular circumstances. I checked with the pub and they have no problem with it. Sandwiches and sausage rolls as previously mentioned will still be there but if anyone wants to bring buffet style food to add to the goodies on offer they are most welcome to do so.

Note that plates, napkins and cutlery will be provided in the pub.

Those who were not aware of this sociable night out please refer to them post I made above with details of the night on 5th Feb 9:40pm above.

Hope to see many of you there and remember newcomers all welcome.

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

8 February, 2018 at 10:45 am

To clarify my last post –
The date of 5th Feb relates to the date I made the original post and not the date of the event.

Reply
Fred says:

8 February, 2018 at 10:47 am

Just as a string of Wingers are expressing their condolences to Bob Peffers on the main thread, the usual arsehole shoves his oar in with the usual shite!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 10:52 am

After yesterday’s sad news, I was saying to a friend how unfair life can be. I know Robert’s health is not good, and his wife was seriously injured in a car accident involving a drunk driver. For most of his life he has been one of the few voices crying in the wilderness for our independence yet he has never stopped.

It’s strange that some of the most informative and inspirational contributors on Wings are people who rise above their personal difficulties every day but keep going because all they want is for the people of Scotland to control their own affairs, without the influence of the malign, treacherous and greedy forces which hold us all back.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

8 February, 2018 at 11:29 am

Tinto/Fred,#Mankymates, Questions!

Am I right in saying that Mr Peffers lives in Kelty? Does any Winger live close enough to find out how he is managing? Could we do something to alleviate any practical difficulties that he may have that we could maybe assist him with?

Answers?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 12:50 pm

Smallaxe: I believe he lives there but that’s all I have gleaned from his posts, apart from the health probs he has mentioned. I’m sure he will be well-known there, with his wee dog and Yes badge-festooned hat.

There must surely be some Wingers in the area?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 1:02 pm

In an effort to cheer myself up, I offer you this: as funky as Freuchie, and stranger than Strathaven:

link to youtube.com

This what happens when Shaft meets Sherlock Holmes……

Reply
Smallaxe says:

8 February, 2018 at 1:28 pm

Tinto,

I got the information from Mr Peffers posts also, I’m sure that some Wingers must live close by. My concern is that Mr Peffers may try to struggle on regardless of his infirmities, I don’t think that he would ask for help even if needed but I think an attempt should be made to find out if there is anything we can do for him.

The problem may be trying to get him to accept help but I would like him to have the offer, this is the kind of thing we Wingers are striving to attain for all in Scotland, surely we can start with one of our own. I would gladly contribute towards any expenses that may be required, I’m sure most of us would.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

8 February, 2018 at 1:40 pm

This is what happens when James Bond meets Pulp Fiction.

link to youtube.com

Super Cool!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 3:03 pm

Smallaxe: amen to all that.

I think Robert will be a man o independent mind.

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

8 February, 2018 at 3:56 pm

Is Westminster about to acknowledge the 20th century happened?

Edwin Astley Orchestra – Danger Man Theme
link to youtube.com

Young women’s dis-identification with feminism: negotiating heteronormativity, neoliberalism and difference

Abstract

This thesis explores young women’s relationship with feminism, contributing to an enhanced understanding of feminist dis-identification. Feminist research offers various explanations for young women’s repudiation of feminism; this study adds a further dimension to current debates by adopting a performative approach which explores how difference, and particularly sexuality, mediates young women’s responses to feminism. Employing and developing the broader theoretical frameworks of postfeminism, individualisation, neoliberalism, and difference, this thesis intervenes in current debates by highlighting the role of heteronormativity in negotiations of feminism. The study is based on forty, semi-structured qualitative in-depth interviews with a diverse group of German and British women, aged 18-35. A discursive analysis of the interviews provides an insight into young women’s talk, thoughts, and feelings about
feminism.

Exemplifying a postfeminist logic, two broad patterns were discernable in the research participants’ talk: feminism was either considered as valuable, but anachronistic and therefore irrelevant to the present, or fiercely repudiated as extreme and dogmatic. While most research participants reported they would not call themselves a feminist, their stance towards feminism shifted depending on the cultural resources they drew on to discuss feminist politics. Reflecting the broader cultural currents of neoliberalism and individualisation, the respondents frequently rejected the need for a collective movement by positioning themselves as individuals who were capable of negotiating structural constraints autonomously. The research participants were aware of persistent gender inequalities, but located them predominantly in the public sphere and/or ‘other’ parts of the world, claiming they had not personally experienced gender discrimination.

Feminists were overwhelmingly portrayed and constructed as unfeminine, man-hating, and lesbian. Although the respondents could not name any concrete examples of feminists who corresponded to this stereotype, the construction of ‘the feminist’ haunted their accounts. As the performative approach illustrates, discussions of feminism gave rise to complex negotiations and performative citations of normative femininity. Performances of femininity were racialized and
classed, intersecting with feminist dis-identification in multiple ways. The perception of feminism as inclusive or exclusive figured as an important theme in the interviews. This thesis adds to our understanding of feminist dis-identification by employing various theoretical tools, drawing on empirical accounts, and by revealing the structuring role of heteronormativity in negotiations of feminism.

link to etheses.lse.ac.uk

Reply
Marie Clark says:

8 February, 2018 at 5:28 pm

Aye Tinto, I think that you’re right about Robert, a man o’ independent mind. My heart goes out to him, poor soul, to bury a child is every parents worst nightmare.

I’ll leave you a wee tune, might cheer us up a bit.

link to youtube.com

PS whit’s happened to Chic, he seems to have disappeared? I hope that he’s all right.

Reply
CameronB Brodie says:

8 February, 2018 at 5:37 pm

Brexit is a result of English votes and is intended to deliver the New Right’s wet-dream of the “minimal state”. As such, Scottish women who support Brexit really need to give themselves a good shake.

Economic Impact of Brexit on Women

The economic impact of Brexit is likely to be damaging to women. This is because Brexit is likely to have a detrimental impact on GDP. There will be specific impacts on women as workers, as users of public services and as consumers due to women’s and men’s different economic positions, roles in fulfilling caring responsibilities and power.

link to wbg.org.uk

Why a push for gender equality makes sound economic sense

…Investment in women boosts economic development, competitiveness, job creation and GDP. We estimate that on average, across the OECD, a 50% reduction in the gender gap in labour force participation would lead to an additional gain in GDP of about 6% by 2030, with a further 6% gain (12% in total) if complete convergence occurred. Frankly, I don’t think that our economies can afford to ignore such huge potential….

link to oecd.org

Why the public sector matters for gender equality

Women dominate public sector employment and public sector employment relations. Their share varies across countries but figure 1 shows that the female share ranges between 60% and 78% for 22 out of 25 OECD countries and only falls below half in Turkey. Women now outnumber men among trade union members in some countries and where that is the case, for example in the UK, it is largely down to the public sector.

Figure 1: Female Share of Public Sector Employment, OECD 2014

Public sector employment relations are thus primarily about women and women’s employment but you would be hard pressed to glean this from any perusal of the literature on public sector industrial relations. I found it hard to track down references to women – even as the group most affected – by
New Public Management (NPM) with the main exception a special issue in Gender, Work and Organisation(Conley et al. 2011). There has certainly been limited consideration of the possibility that feminisation of public services
employment may have encouraged the emergence of NPM if women are considered perhaps easier targets for policies that aim to reduce autonomy and subject workers to more control over both work effort and labour costs. NPM could also be seen as a means of reducing what in some countries may be considered to be unnecessarily high wages, possibly reflective of a more male-dominated past. And there are still other types public services sectors with both a long history of both low pay and feminisation, primarily found in Eastern European countries, which also receive little attention.

Nor is there much interest in how NPM is actually implemented from a gender perspective; this can work in many different ways but for certain the ways will be gendered. For example, outsourcing may be skewed towards either male-or female-dominated job areas, or both, but the reasoning and expectations of the process will depend upon the gendered internal and external labour market conditions. Where the public sector pays women well above the external private sector rate,2 outsourcing of women’s job types may be encouraged. However, if men have succeeded in raising their pay within the public sector more than women, for example through favourable bonus schemes, they might be the more vulnerable to outsourcing. Again it depends on how organised the private sector is and what the alternative rates of pay might be (e.g. for example in Germany legal binding extended collective bargaining
agreements were introduced for waste collection and commercial cleaning to reduce incentives to public sector outsourcing but the wage gap between the two sectors was also narrowed by the introduction of a new lower pay rate for public sector workers which mainly affected women (Grimshaw et al. 2015)). What is certain is that there will be gender differences both in the internal public sector pay level and in the implied external pay premiums which are likely to shape outsourcing policy.

link to users.unimi.it

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Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 5:54 pm

Love the Jazz Waltz by Old Shosters, Marie. Fair cheers you up.

I think Chic(k) said before Christmas he had had a nasty virus. Think he also visits antipodean relatives so he might be Doon Ablaw a ce moment.

Pity, ‘cos me and Smallaxe wanted to discuss the quantum mechanics underpinning Multiverse Theory.

Smallaxe loves a good boson, soan he does.

Reply
Odet says:

8 February, 2018 at 6:08 pm

@ chasanderson200

Re Wingers’ night out on 7th April.

Great idea. Thanks for organising this.
I’m planning to attend: might manage to bring a Lurker with me.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

8 February, 2018 at 7:49 pm

This has hunners o’ bosons, pour example:

link to youtube.com

Title refers to “There’s been a Murdo” Fraser (word on the street).

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

8 February, 2018 at 10:12 pm

Aretha Franklin & Duane Allman link to youtube.com

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Michael McCabe says:

8 February, 2018 at 10:25 pm

A Wee Song for Fluffy Mundell link to youtube.com

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Smallaxe says:

9 February, 2018 at 10:01 am

link to youtube.com

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Marie Clark says:

9 February, 2018 at 1:58 pm

Tinto, I see Chick has reappeared on the MT. Nothing to stop you and Smallaxe discussing the fancy theory that you seemed keen on.

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Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 4:22 pm

Yes, well, eh, thanks Marie. I’m more of a fermion man myself.

*gets into a sweat*

Oh, look! A song!

link to youtube.com

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

9 February, 2018 at 4:40 pm

Odet

Cheers Odet, I look forward to seeing see you and your lurker.

Reply
hackalumpoff says:

9 February, 2018 at 4:44 pm

@ Tinto Chiel, Fermions you say, well it’s time to man the defenses as they say in Trumpton.
link to youtube.com

Gawd save us, as I’m cooking, the colander reminded me of link to pastafarian.co.uk

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 5:04 pm

Norman, is that you?

I passed out after “noodly appendage”.

Am doubling the tinfoil layers in my tartan onesie. You can’t be too careful these days.

Remember The Mentiads in Dr Who? I can’t go through that again!

Reply
hackalumpoff says:

9 February, 2018 at 5:13 pm

Can’t talk thenoo, toodloo, spaghetti is on fire, sending for Captain Flack.

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Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 5:18 pm

She may start miming too early, but I forgive her……

*Stares dreamily into middle distance*

link to youtube.com

Reply
Marie Clark says:

9 February, 2018 at 6:39 pm

Oh err Mrs noodly appendages! I don’t think I better say anything else aboot it, cough.

Naw Tinto, for me it has to be this version of the song. Ah takes me back to the sixties when I was a wee teenage lassie sigh.

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 6:51 pm

It’s actually a pretty good version, Marie. But they don’t wiggle like Jackie does……

Just finished listening to Pravdasound 4’s account of Barnier’s inevitable comments on the transition period and the NI border. I’m convinced, like you, after hearing the words of prize planks Diddy Davis and Ian Smithson Dunk, that FOBO (Flounce Out and Blame Option) approacheth at a top rate of knots.

If “It’s them bally unreasonable Johnnie Foreigners” doesn’t work, it’ll be, “It’s them bloody micks!” All the tax-exile billionaire press barons will pile in behind this line and the proles ablaw the dyke will lap it up.

Beam us up, Nicola!

Reply
Marie Clark says:

9 February, 2018 at 6:59 pm

I think it’s getting pretty close to manning the lifeboats time.Well if it’s no Johhny Furriner and it’s them bloody Micks, it’ll make a change from those bloody jocks SNP BAAAAD. Mind you, I bet they could find a way to blame it on the SNP.

My much beloved has started on his diet today. He’s been told that he has to lose four and a half stones. In ither word, he’s too fat. Well I think he’s just cuddly, but I suppose that we have to look after his health. Maybe in a few months he’ll be as svelte as you Tinto.

Here’ some very bad dad dancing. The wean in the highchair aye amuses me.

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 8:14 pm

Epic, I must agree, Marie. I thought the baffy flick towards the end was most impressive. Wotamover!

Svelte, moi? Too many “bacon rolls” recently, I’m afraid, if you get my meaning

Heard a song thrush (smeorach in gaelic) belting it out today, which always makes me happy, so I’m playing this again. Only Fred’ll notice it’s a repeat.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Marie Clark says:

9 February, 2018 at 9:22 pm

That’s just grand Tinto. What a lovely voice Julie Fowlis has. A talented lady too, she plays quite a few musical instruments.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 9:38 pm

We are lucky now to have so many young Scottish artists with self-confidence, whether in Gaelic or Scots.

John Steinbeck once said, “Scotland isn’t a lost cause, it’s an unwon cause” or words to that effect.

Our children and grandchildren will be free, Marie. We just have to do a wee bit more heavy lifting and then, “Free at last, free at last!”

What are Wee Willie Wonky, Tricky Dickie and Ruth Tank-Straddler going to do on Indyday 1?

“Not Wanted on Voyage”.

Reply
Fred says:

9 February, 2018 at 9:46 pm

@Tinto, how come the same Scotland created Julie Fowlis & Ruth Davidson?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

9 February, 2018 at 10:00 pm

Och, Fred, that’s a conundrum.

But we’ve got form in this old country, e.g. Wallace and Menteith and a dozen other tropes.

The Norwegians called their enforced life under the Swedes “the four hundred year sleep” and look at them now.

Not long now, #MankyMate.

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 10:39 am

Nature Notes, No. 545.

My wee song thrush came into the garden this morning. It’s a sign.

***

Just leaving this on the PRMG kitchen table for Miss Daines:

“Good morning. just a little note to advise you the ginger nuts are fuisty and there is a smell in the fridge.

Also, I happened to be passing my Acme dusting mitt along the top of the doors, and with rather disappointing results.

And oblige,

TC.”

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Fred says:

10 February, 2018 at 10:41 am

We live in interesting times Tinto, hopefully Nicola will hold her fire till she sees the white of their eyes!

Is “The Conundrum!” no a pipe tune kid?

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 10:46 am

Eh thenk yooooooooooooooooo:

link to youtube.com

Nicola kens…..

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Fred says:

10 February, 2018 at 3:34 pm

Excellent Tinto, picked up the Loch Fyne kippers at Glesga X so will try the hot-watter dook the morra!

In view of the tragic sinking at Tarbert, it’s no fish yer buyin it’s mens lives!

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 4:45 pm

Yes, the “price of fish” indeed.

I consulted my monger of fish again and he says 7-8 mins for the jugging. You need to cover whatever receptacle you use.

And the best of Donald to you.

Poached egg on top?

Mmmmmm…..

Reply
Lollysmum says:

10 February, 2018 at 6:15 pm

@chasanderson200

Count me in for the Wingers night out

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chasanderson200 says:

10 February, 2018 at 7:10 pm

Lollysmum
Duly noted and I look forward to seeing you again.

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 7:15 pm

Risking hammers again:

link to poetryfoundation.org

Written at the dawn of the 20th century. Unfortunately, the poet was a bit too optimistic…..

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 7:38 pm

An Irish view of BPC. Of course, they didn’t have to pay the blood price…..

A great song and a great choir.

link to youtube.com

Ian B: if you’re lurking, this is one of your faves, methinks.

Those who think anti-Jacobite oppression post-Culloden was confined to the Highlands should harken unto Stuart McHardy’s research into the Redcoat invasion of the Lowlands, evidenced by the Cantonment Records of the British Army, a suppressed document, one copy of which survives in a Canadian archive IIRC. His efforts to publish this revelatory document have met with considerable resistance.

Big wows, seps, eh?

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Lollysmum says:

10 February, 2018 at 8:13 pm

@Tinto Chiel
Truly Scottish TV has a history channel & for the last couple of weeks have been spotlighting Mark Nichol & his search for history in the Borders. From mass graves to caves in riverbanks & much more besides, it’s fascinating stuff & I’m hooked!

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Ian Brotherhood says:

10 February, 2018 at 8:20 pm

A braw Saturday night off-topickin tae ye’s aw.

Feelin a bit maudlin, not sure why, missin ma pals and ma brother and right in the mood for a good laugh and gab but there’s naebdy here!

The Corries, ‘The Wild Mountain Thyme’ –

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 8:33 pm

Strangely enough, Lollysmum, Nana put me on to this young man recently and I have watched his clips on the Douglases and Roxburgh castle.

The man who largely re-established Scottish historiography in the 60s was GWS Barrow, a Yorkshireman who was roundly attacked by Oxbridge “academics” for his masterwork, Robert Bruce. They, in both in their arrogance and ignorance, denied there was such a thing as a separate, distinct Scottish history.

Strangely, Tank-Top Boy Torrance wrote a pretty decent obituary of The Great Man before the former became a bitter and twisted little Yoonster. Prof Barrow would always answer personally letters of enquiry from amateurs like myself and was a great help in directing you to useful documents.

We’ve been missing your bulletins from the Borders since you came north, LLM. You should post more and keep us all sane.

Brexit’s bad for the brain…..

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Fred says:

10 February, 2018 at 9:31 pm

@ Tinto, McHardy’s “Scotland’s Future History!” looks a good read?

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Tinto Chiel says:

10 February, 2018 at 9:47 pm

Yes, Fred: he’s as carnaptious as feck but he’s a breath of fresh air and it’s a quick but informative read. “Reframing” is an in-word but it’s what he does, and very effectively.

Worried about you, Ian. That glimpse up Carmichael’s kilt is more than any man should be asked to bear.

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

10 February, 2018 at 9:53 pm

Very crowded meeting of Yessers in Waterloos Street in Glasgow today and many interesting thoughts. Congrats R’glen for putting it together and spot on analysis from Ronnie Anderson.

If anybody wants our thoughts about how we have kept YES Cowal’s Forward Shop running (for six years now) my email address is

dalinlongart@gmail.com

I also suggested we find ways to coordinate the design and production of campaigning materials and I’d be happy to hear ideas etc on this. I would like to design very hard hitting little leaflets for instance that would destroy the big lies one by one and could be cheaply printed in their thousands. Once you establish a couple of big lies are big lies all the rest of their rubbish goes down with it. I have some interesting ideas.

BTW I heard a bit of booing about the Daily Record today. The Daily Record is not our major enemy anymore .In the last fortnight it has kicked the Labour Party a lot more than it has kicked the SNP and several editorials have been very generous to Nicola. Keep an eye on this.

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stewartb says:

10 February, 2018 at 10:24 pm

Dave McEwan Hill @ 9:53 pm

Good to learn that the Glasgow meeting went well.

You write: “I also suggested we find ways to coordinate the design and production of campaigning materials and I’d be happy to hear ideas etc on this. I would like to design very hard hitting little leaflets for instance that would destroy the big lies one by one and could be cheaply printed in their thousands.”

Sounds very sensible. In addition, and along similar lines, I’ve sometimes thought about the merits of this – good to get your thoughts: to request key online sources – Wings, WGD, IndyRef2 etc. – to agree to provide access to, via their online sites, properly formatted printable versions of their blogs, appropriately attributed/branded (and with info/ links to the source online site), that could be readily printed to distribute/leave lying around/hand out – as with ‘old style’ political pamphlets.

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

10 February, 2018 at 11:51 pm

stewartb at 10.24

I often thought how useful lots of stuff on Wings would be if I could print it off as a leaflet

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Chick McGregor says:

10 February, 2018 at 11:52 pm

DMH

In my opinion, the most successful thing we did in the Kirrie Yes shop was the installing of a window monitor which ran leaflets, videos and intimations on a 24/7 basis.

Often, especially in the evening, you could see folk stopping to watch it. Especially young folk who would most likely never go into the shop.

Colin Dunn gave us permission to use his fantastic indy posters and these, animated a little, were a significant part of the loop.

Newspaper articles and other textual stuff as well of course.

Audio visuals, like Duggie the Dug, or other hard hitting propaganda videos were subtitled by us so street viewers could follow them.

And, of course, there was some stuff created by ourselves, usually of a local nature.

Kirrie Aye TV we called it.

If every Yes shop for indyref2 had such a setup it could make the difference and with centralised coordination for a ‘news bulletin’ section it could go some way to providing an alt TV to the UMSM TV propaganda.

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Chick McGregor says:

11 February, 2018 at 12:01 am

PS

These are the only two examples still on my YT, but I still have all the rest of the material in my archives.

link to youtube.com

link to youtube.com

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Ian Brotherhood says:

11 February, 2018 at 12:33 am

@Chick –

Great tae see ye back man!

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Cactus says:

11 February, 2018 at 1:18 am

Looking good for Glenrothes ’18 chasanderson200,

Cheers

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Lucia Daines says:

11 February, 2018 at 10:48 am

Re TV – you may have noticed Paula’s tweets on the subject – Brechin Yes shop is installing a video projector to show TrulyScottishtv.com with full permission of the broadcaster.

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Chick McGregor says:

11 February, 2018 at 11:07 am

Lucia

Nope, missed it. Ta.

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Chick McGregor says:

11 February, 2018 at 11:09 am

Ian

Hey, thanks for that.

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uno mas says:

11 February, 2018 at 12:10 pm

@Scott Finlayson

I´m not a big AC/DC fan personaly but I can see the attraction.

To which I recommend this youtube from a concert in the river plate stadium Buenos Aires and challenge anyone to tell me they don´t want to be there in that crowd or at least don´t want to be young enough to be there!!

link to youtube.com

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Scot Finlayson says:

11 February, 2018 at 1:33 pm

@uno mas

the River Plate concert is live stadium rock at it`s best,

do you know there is a statue to Bon Scott in Kirriemuir where he is carrying a set of bagpipes from the `It’s a Long Way to the Top (If You Wanna Rock ‘n’ Roll)` song.

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

11 February, 2018 at 1:44 pm

Bon Scott, Kirriemuir.

link to i.pinimg.com

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CameronB Brodie says:

11 February, 2018 at 1:56 pm

I’ve been listening to a lot of BBC radio 4 recently and I’m getting a very uneasy feeling that the BBC are softening up the public to accept wholesale deregulation of the biotech and agribusiness sectors, post-Brexit. Is this what leave voters really voted for?

I’m less concerned with the safety of future technologies, tbh, than I am society’s ethical maturity and capacity to ensure institutional transparency and probity. Particularly under the dominant paradigm of neo-liberal political economy and the deification of market forces. How will we ensure the application of technology doesn’t add to the ongoing stratification of society and agency.

@BBC
I dare you to try and justify eugenics.

“Eugenics talk” and the language of bioethics

Abstract

In bioethical discussions of preimplantation genetic diagnosis and prenatal screening, accusations of eugenics are commonplace, as are counter-claims that talk of eugenics is misleading and unhelpful. This paper asks whether “eugenics talk”, in this context, is legitimate and useful or something to be avoided. It also looks at the extent to which this linguistic question can be answered without first answering relevant substantive moral questions. Its main conclusion is that the best and most non-partisan argument for avoiding eugenics talk is the Autonomy Argument. According to this, eugenics talk per se is not wrong, but there is something wrong with using its emotive power as a means of circumventing people’s critical–rational faculties. The Autonomy Argument does not, however, tell against eugenics talk when such language is used to shock people into critical–rational thought. These conclusions do not depend on unique features of eugenics: similar considerations apply to emotive language throughout bioethics….

link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Eugenics and the Criticism of Bioethics

Abstract

This article provides a critical assessment of some aspects of Ann Kerr and Tom Shakespeare’s Genetic Politics: from eugenics to genome. In particular, I evaluate their claims: (a) that bioethics is too ‘top down’, involving normative prescriptions, whereas it should instead be ‘bottom up’ and grounded in social science; and (b) that contemporary bioethics has not dealt particularly well with people’s moral concerns about eugenics. I conclude that several of Kerr and Shakespeare’s criticisms are well-founded and serve as valuable reminders to the bioethics community. These include the claims: that bioethics ought not to consist entirely of applying moral theory to cases; that bioethics must take account of relevant empirical evidence; and that bioethicists should be on the look out for those subtle social forces which can undermine the voluntariness of people’s choices and consents. However, we should reject some of Kerr and Shakespeare’s other criticisms and I conclude (amongst other things) that even ‘mainstream’ bioethics is better able to deal with difficult issues like eugenics than Kerr and Shakespeare suggest.

link to link.springer.com

Queer Genes: Realism, Sexuality and Science

Abstract

What are ‘gay genes’ and are they real? This article looks at key research into these hypothesized gay genes, made possible, in part, by the Human Genome Project. I argue that the complexity of both genetics and human sexuality demands a truly critical approach: one that takes into account feminist epistemologies of science and queer approaches to the body, while putting into conversation resources from agential realism and critical realism. This approach is able to maintain the agential complexity of genetic materiality, while also critically challenging the seemingly stable relationships between sex, gender and sexuality.

link to tandfonline.com

P.S. The omnibus edition of Will Self’s bus journey lost the two leave voters from East Kilbride. However, Will managed to find a member of East Kilbride Golf Club, who voted Yes in 2014 but who swiftly changed to No as a result of the way in which the “nationalists” behaved after loosing the vote. WTF?

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CameronB Brodie says:

11 February, 2018 at 3:05 pm

Here’s one to inspire Scotland’s self-defense against the growing encroachment of English cultural nationalism. Bloody nationalists.

Shostakovich: Symphony No.7 “Leningrad”
link to youtube.com

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

11 February, 2018 at 6:16 pm

Chick McGregor at 11.52
We also have in the Forward Shop in Dunoon a large screen continuous display running. It would be great if we could get material designed for that use

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Chick McGregor says:

12 February, 2018 at 12:08 am

DMH

We started off with the monitor in portrait orientation because most of the available material, e.g. Poster Boy’s stuff, was of that ilk so one poster per display, for example.

Later, when more AV became available like Duggie Dug, speeches at meetings and pro-indy films made by various, we changed to Landscape orientation and reworked the poster/leaflet type stuff so that two were displayed side by side.

Audio speech was subtitled using free subtitling software so that street viewers could read as well as watch.

I’d guess nowadays, with the prevalence of smart phones, it would be prudent to include QR codes so that folk could watch and listen in their own time and, hopefully, share with friends.

Tomorrow, if you like, I could load a couple of examples to my YT. Of course. much of it is out of date for one reason or another but would still serve to illustrate.

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Fred says:

12 February, 2018 at 11:12 am

@ Tinto, the poached kippers worked Fyne, used a frying pan & lid, they were big kippers, from Kintyre Smokehouse! Peace & geez peace!

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Tinto Chiel says:

12 February, 2018 at 3:00 pm

Fyne news, Fred. In St Andrews today.

Baltic!

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Chick McGregor says:

13 February, 2018 at 12:09 pm

Getting a wee bit mushy with Valentine’s day in the offing, a 70’s song, a cover version of Love Hurts by Scottish band Nazareth came to mind.

This was a major international hit at the time, top 10 in many countries, including the US and no 1 in 5. In Norway it is the all time best selling single there, staying in the Norwegian charts for an incredible 61 weeks.

In the UK, it did not get into the top 40.

Instead an English version, a strangely incongruous up-beat, I’d say almost bubble gum, version was brought out and managed to get to no 4 in the UK charts.

I’m sure ’75 coinciding with the peak of the first real indy scare was purely incidental in that charting anomally – err , cough!

Anyway, prepare to be well and truly mushed.

link to youtube.com

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Thepnr says:

13 February, 2018 at 3:34 pm

Looking back at the referendum it’s amazing to think of the lies they got away with.

Here’s Archie MacPherson campaigning for Better Together in Barlanark lying his mouth off.

The lies about pensions to the second women he speaks to is *^%**%

link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

13 February, 2018 at 3:49 pm

@ Thepnr, Macpherson’s a patronising balloon who has never tried on a workin jaiket! Strangely enough, is Jackie Burd not also a Macpherson? is genetic coorie-doon-ism at play here?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

13 February, 2018 at 7:53 pm

If you were to construct a pompous, idiotic, self-loathing Cringetastic walloper from modelling clay and bits of old string, Archie would be the result, Fred.

I have higher retrospective hopes for a cryogenic Bob Crampsey.

I suspect he would be a cool Yesser.

Ya bass.

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

13 February, 2018 at 9:37 pm

Tinto Chiel at 7.53

Good guy, Bob Crampsey. His brother Frank played for amateur Scotland in goal and Bob worked with the the school football teams (he was originally a history teacher)as I laboured to get into a school team that already had Paddy Crerand, Charlie Gallacher and Tony Connell in it with Harry Hood and Dennis Connachan coming up behind. Those were the days when school football was really big in Scotland and pumped out a huge array of talent. I had good days running the teams at John Ogilvie HS in Hamilton

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Ian Brotherhood says:

13 February, 2018 at 9:42 pm

MacPherson keeps getting gigs on Cowan/Cosgrove’s Off The Ball – Cowan always keeps his political cards close to his chest but Cosgrove doesn’t and it *must* spoil his crochet somewhat to have to ‘host’ that belter for two, three hours at a time. Sore one!

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Ian Brotherhood says:

13 February, 2018 at 10:07 pm

@TC –

re a model of The Archie made from ‘modelling clay and bits of old string’, do you know someone who can fashion such a thing? If so, ah’ve got needles, a special juju bag fu’ ay chicken bones, and badness oan ma mind…

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Chick McGregor says:

13 February, 2018 at 11:55 pm

I used to love Off The Ball but it has gradually become the Tam Cowan show. More and more it is simply a constant stream of Tam’s consciousness frequently cutting off Stuart or over speaking him. Which is a shame because Stuart usually makes the more interesting comments when he gets the chance.

Reply
Chick McGregor says:

13 February, 2018 at 11:57 pm

When Archie commentated on a game, I frequently wondered whether he was actually watching the same game or they had mixed the AV feeds wrongly.

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Chick McGregor says:

14 February, 2018 at 12:02 am

From memory, I think Bob Crampsey won Brain of Britain once, very clever bloke, but I also seem to remember we was a died in the wool U.

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Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:10 am

@Thepnr, Chick, DMH, IanB: I’m pretty sure, given his sly digs at the FM and the QFC, that Cowan wears UJ boxers. He’s not an augur bit in the brain department, imho. Cosgrove is a groovy Lefty Yesser, methinks, although the discussion of the football act “repeal” on Off The Ball was pretty dreadful.

I’m afraid when I watched TV Oor Erchie made me boak, and that was before I discovered what a crawling little Britnat toadie he was. When Alec Cameron got whacked by the police horse’s arse in that classic footage, I was wishing it was Brillo Pad Heid.

DMH: am I right in saying John Clark of Sellick fame (whom I saw last week down the Clydeside) started playing with Larkhall Thistle? or was it Royal Albert? Bizarre either way.

Bring back dear old David Francey, master of bathos:

(Voice rising all the time) “John Greig bursting through, he beats one, beats two shoooooooooooooooots…….

Oh, a daisy-cutter there……..”

BTW, Fred, I’m off down the fish shop. Can drone you over some samphire and cod roe for that “special” Valentine’s Day risotto, si tu l’en veut.

If anyone missed it last night, Big Ronnie’s sanity clause clip should bring back some memories.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:13 am

“Auger bit”, obvs.

Gave myself 100 lines.

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

14 February, 2018 at 11:01 am

Tinto Chiel at 10.10
I believe so and John Clark is the unsung hero of that great Celtic team. I never saw a better or more efficient defender and he “made” Billy McNeill. Celtic could use him now with a defence like a colander.

The McStays were Larkie boys. I had an epic experience at the Robert Smillie Memorial Park in Larkhall when my John Ogilvie HS team beat Holycross HS for the Cameronian Shield. Some eejit before my time had determined that the Ogilvie team play in green and gold hoops. FFS
I see your MP is a Ogilvie ex pupil.

Reply
Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 12:14 pm

@Tinto Chiel

John Clark has a Wiki page:

link to en.wikipedia.org

He did play for Larkhall Thistle right enough, interestingly he is still at Celtic employed as their kit man and has done this for twenty years.

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Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 12:16 pm

Agreed: JC was a great reader of the game.

When I taught in the town I kept a big picture of the Ancell Babes on my wall just to annoy the more frothy Weearrapeepull types. It only came down for HMI visits.

I always remember Bobby Shearer’s comment when he did Bert McCann’s knee:”He should nae a riled me.” Such a Corinthian!

When Pat Quinn played for Bridgeton Waverley he was desperate to sign for Celtic but he was considered too wee. Celtic’s loss….

He was the pre-Iniesta Iniesta..

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Fred says:

14 February, 2018 at 12:50 pm

@ Tinto, U missed the Valentine Breakfast of porage with broon sugar & whisky instead of milk! Great start to the day!
Is samphire not oot of season?

PS, the Gerry Cairns author of the new John Maclean biog’ is a different Gerry Cairns from the bothying wan!

Reply
Fred says:

14 February, 2018 at 12:54 pm

A shortbread prog’ coming up on the wireless about R.B.Cunninghame Graham but I missed the details.

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Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 1:01 pm

Thanks for that, Alex. A previous post of mine has gone missing, probs just GCHQ.

When I used to travel H&A to follow my diddy team, I went on the EK supporters’ bus and befriended an old codger who was a real student of the game. It was he who pointed out Clark’s quiet abilities to me as a reader of the game and organiser of the defence. Previously I had thought he contributed little to his team.

Now I’m the old codger in the stand, gibbering about players no-one else remembers. Anyhow, better stop talking about fitba’ or Bossy Boots Miss Daines will be along to scold me.

Reply
Lucia Daines says:

14 February, 2018 at 1:24 pm

On you go with your footie chat – I’ll start my reminiscences of Netball in the 1970s a high point in the game.

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Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 1:39 pm

FTS, Fred, that his samphire should be out of season, but he still manages to stock it at the mo. Mebbe hydroponic or summink. Your breakfast sounded stonking but don’t you have to keep drinking all day for the full effect?

I bought Cairns’ book a couple of weeks ago but haven’t quite finished it yet.

Apologies, Miss Daines.

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

14 February, 2018 at 2:07 pm

A rare comment from me re football.

Schoolboy football. I was at a Scotland v England schoolboy international at Dens Park, around 1964. The only names I recall from it are Howard Kendall and Peter Sissons.

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 3:27 pm

I don’t think you can get more O/T than this but just a bit of fun. I fancied a Chinese tonight and looked on Google Maps for a takeaway.

Nearest me there are two, so it was between them. A pretty normally named one called “Golden Wok” but I prefer the name of the other which is “Hung Wan”.

Reminded me of two in Dundee only 100 yards or so apart from years ago though both have been renamed now, originally they were called “Wan Kees” which was next to Dens Park and then there was the “Tak A Wa” on Cleppy road.

Quite inventive are the Scottish Chinese

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 3:50 pm

Thepnr @ 3.27
The clear winner though (because it’s still there after a few decades and very popular)
Is the ….SHAT IN……
Old Edinburgh Rd Viewpark

Reply
Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 3:56 pm

@Liz g

Hahaha there’s no way that can be bettered

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 4:02 pm

Here is the very place, sheer class LOL

link to tinyurl.com

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 4:22 pm

Thepnr @ 4.02
That’s it….the very one.
I have often wondered what the name actually means in Chinese?
Anyhoo if any of you are ever over that way,it has a good reputation both for the food and the staff!

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Tinto Chiel says:

14 February, 2018 at 4:24 pm

The madness of fame (full-length version) and on the slide again:

link to youtube.com

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 5:40 pm

@Liz g

Of course I had to go and find out what it meant

Turns out that Sha Tin also known as Shatin is a town in the new territories of Hong Kong and was the home of the equestrian events for the 2008 Olympics when they were held in China.

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 6:01 pm

Thepnr @ 5.40
Well thank you sir…but I already knew that bit…lol
I think every customer asked aboot it when they first opened.

You’re mission….. Should you choose to accept it….
Is what the name “actually” means.

Now I’d be really impressed if you got that information!!

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

14 February, 2018 at 8:13 pm

OK – I have no idea “WHY”.

This afternoon, I responded to Thepnr and, after an hour, my comment hadn’t appeared. It was very short and included a (short) link to Google maps.

So, I posted it again, with a sentence of additional text. It too has disappeared.

This, then, is my last attempt. Instead of a short Google link, I’ll take the long one. Let’s see what happens.

For Thepnr…

link to google.co.uk

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

14 February, 2018 at 8:16 pm

AHA!

We have learned that WordPress doesn’t approve of the short links that Google Maps generate.

(File for future use.)

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

14 February, 2018 at 8:18 pm

I reaaly should recall what I have posted in the past…

link to wingsoverscotland.com

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 8:26 pm

@Brian Doonthetoon

Haha cheers Brian, I thought they had changed the name. Glad to see that it’s still the “Tak A Wa”

@Liz g

Struggling with that quest you gave me, it’s a toughie.

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 9:41 pm

Thepnr @ 8.26
Ye mean it’s worse than tryin tae find oot whit wis “halfway down Roberson Street”?
LOL….
I have every confidence that you will find out….. But just to make it interesting….
If you haven’t by the next Wing’s night out you will owe Mrs Thepnr a slap up meal in her favorite restaurant…no matter what it’s called!….Deal?….

And no helping from the rest of you….

Reply
Chick McGregor says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:01 pm

Thepnr

In Kirrie we have the Curriemuir.

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:10 pm

@Chick McGregor

Another chinese cracker lol. Must pay it a visit sometime and love the sense of humour.

There was a place in Mid Cragie in Dundee called “Curry In a Hurry” so on the way home in a taxi after a night out I asked the driver to stop.

Went in and asked for a Chicken Curry, “we don’t sell curry” said the guy behind the counter, it was a kebab place. Oh dear

@Liz g

Already found out quite a lot, like it was named after the river it sit’s on. The name was given to it by a British Officer after he misunderstood what the locals were telling him.

I know the original name of the town and what it means, no further forward though on what Sha Tin or Sha Tian actually means. Will have to keep looking, Mrs Pnr won’t be getting a free lunch if I can help it

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:21 pm

Thepnr @ 10.10
Lunch…Lunch by jings …..This is clearly a Dinner situation…

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Thepnr says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:30 pm

@Liz g

I don’t really do dinner, reminds me too much of this.

link to youtube.com

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Liz g says:

14 February, 2018 at 10:59 pm

Thepnr @ 10.30
Then get over yourself and Treat the lady.
All the while reveling in your successful quest.
And your newfound Oriental knowledge.
Cause the next time I pass it….I will go in and ask!
So by hook or by crook or banana when daylight comes after the Wings night out….ye will know the answer before ye GI home

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

15 February, 2018 at 1:50 pm

Sha Tin Source of Trickling or Source of clear water I think ? Anyway this Water is Cold link to youtube.com

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Thepnr says:

15 February, 2018 at 2:28 pm

@Michael McCabe

Ah not quite that easy “Source of clear water” was the meaning of the old name “Lek Yuen”

I’ve managed to find it now though I think, Sha Tin ?? means “tidal land” or “sand flat” according to this source.

link to eng.ichacha.net

Reply
Thepnr says:

15 February, 2018 at 2:31 pm

The ?? were meant to be Chinese characters, link works though.

Reply
Betty Boop says:

15 February, 2018 at 2:56 pm

@ chasanderson200

Chas, please add moi and JimT to your Wingdingaling, Glenrothes list. I believe some buffet contributions may be appreciated.

Reply
Fred says:

15 February, 2018 at 8:20 pm

An Fuaran, pub in Achiltibuie. Clear water in Gaelic.

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 9:04 am

It’s too early for some Billericay Dickie, so:

link to youtube.com

Eh thenk yow…..

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 1:19 pm

Nature Notes, No. 566.

MTS: had a transcendental Entwood Experience while loitering in Balbirnie Park last weekend.

I chanced upon a very old yew tree with a dense main bole, and lots of intertwining branches, most of which eventually dipped to the ground, forming “elbows”. I think they had then rooted themselves adventitiously before putting out more upward-growing branches. This gave it a strangely architectural quality.

I know they are difficult to date but this looked really old, nothing like the one at Fortingall but still very impressive. I believe that, although everything else of the tree is poisonous, the flesh of the wee pink berry can be eaten, at least by birds.

It was difficult to hug, but I managed.

Reply
Fred says:

16 February, 2018 at 4:09 pm

Tinto, the deer can eat yew but it kills cuddies stane deid!

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

16 February, 2018 at 4:37 pm

I see there’s another ringer in town, or is it minger?

Weeeeeeddd

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 4:49 pm

Is that right, Fred? Toxicity seems to increase when the leaves are dried.

Maybe deer as a species have been browsing yew for so long they have some immunity to its toxins.

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 5:03 pm

yesindyref2: “Weeeeeed”?

You’re positively gnomic this aft.

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

16 February, 2018 at 5:27 pm

@Tinto Chiel
I’ve been smoking since I was 7 years old. Probably stunted my growth, I was destined to be 7 foot tall, look what happened!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 6:27 pm

yesindyref2: got you now, mon vieux haricot.

But who’s your ringer and who’s your minger?

Mrs TC and I stayed at a big hotel in Markinch last week on much reduced winter rates but I omitted to tick the “Are you Lanarkshire Scum?” box, so they gave us a suite which was considerably bigger than our bijou pied-a-terre at home, and was scene of the infamous Primal Scream chocolate-fountain orgy with “scantily-clad groupies” in 2006 (as it said in the framed newspaper article on the mantelpiece), when they trashed the rooms along with Kobai, a Scottish beat combo, I believe, m’lud.

Wish I’d had a misspent youth wot like they had.

*Muses thereon*

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

16 February, 2018 at 6:51 pm

To anybody who might be interested I’ll be ranting on a bit about the huge lie we are being fed about Syria on my Roundabout show (7PM – 8PM)on our online Argyll Independent Radio tonight.

Reply
cearc says:

16 February, 2018 at 7:35 pm

The only bit of yew that itsn’t very toxic when consumed is YEW CHOOB.

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 7:37 pm

Rant on, DMH, in the absence of any true narrative from the combined MSM in the UK. Best of luck tonight.

Could I also ask, “What chance for any success with the Scottish football team when its new manager voted against Scotland in 2014?”

Psychologically, I believe our football and rugby teams are beaten before we start, and we will only begin to improve once our mental log-jam is removed post-independence.

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 7:49 pm

@cearc:100 lines for Monday.

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Thepnr says:

16 February, 2018 at 9:10 pm

@Tinto Chiel

Wanted to see what that Yew tree you told us of was like, I believe this is a picture of it.

link to ancient-yew.org

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 9:28 pm

Evening, Alex. Thanks for that.

That looks very like the lower section of the main trunk. Unfortunately, it doesn’t show the magnificent “elbows” and subsequent extensions. It’s a beautiful specimen and is quite close to the hotel, on the right-hand side as you look at the facade.

If we presume it was planted when the venerable pile was built c. 1810, it may only be about 200 years old or so. It just seems much older than that, given its habit and girth.

Where’s yon Chas Anderson when you need him?

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yesindyref2 says:

16 February, 2018 at 10:09 pm

@TC
I was getting worried I’d got it wrong.

link to youtube.com

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Ian Brotherhood says:

16 February, 2018 at 10:12 pm

@TC –

Last year, after Strachan was bagged, had an exchange with oldest pal (has been in Japan since 1990) about possible effect of full independence on performance of national fitba squad. He was dismissive.

Biding my time until he’s seen social media reaction to McLeish’s appointment. The fact that McLeish was a vocal ‘No’ cannot be ignored as an element. Beattie Show this lunchtime tried to put positive gloss on it, but ’twas unconvincing.

Seriously, would it be a surprise if McLeish ends up having to resign before any further international fixtures are played? That would – surely! – be a first.

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 10:44 pm

yesindyref2: I’m a bit slow on the uptake but, as Meg Ryan would say, yes, yes, yes. Only two weeks ago, on Carmichael “Crack of Doom” Friday, I was talking to a dashingly handsome man who teeters on the point of no return, and he identified Yer Man as a Rum ‘Un. I had to agree, and YM is not alone as the classic concern troll at the mo.

Ian B: honestly, we have reached a new low in SFA incompetence. As the obscene Paperchase greetings card says, you have no idea of the size of the feck I don’t give regarding the national team. Yoon employs Yoon and The Blazers perpetuate The Cringe ad infinitum.

I think it was His Cosgroveness who recently repeated on OTB the damning indictment of the SFA: we have the highest per capita attendance at our domestic football and the worst TV deal.

It’s a funny old game, Saint, indeed.

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Fred says:

16 February, 2018 at 10:44 pm

Dunno about McLeish, don’t think the TA will be ecstatic!

@ Tinto, Yew cuttings take no bother, about 6 inches!

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Tinto Chiel says:

16 February, 2018 at 10:52 pm

“@ Tinto, Yew cuttings take no bother, about 6 inches!”

Oooh, matron!

About ten years ago, I gathered many autumn acorns from the famous Cadzow Oaks, a weird and contorted old oak-wood on the Chatelherault Estate near me, where the ancient White Cattle of Cadzow used to browse.

I dutifully chilled them in my fridge, then carefully planted them out in wee pots in my garden.

I came home from work one day to find they had all been eaten by the bloody grey squirrels who had pure chibbed the native reds in my vicinity.

*Grinds teeth*

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Tinto Chiel says:

17 February, 2018 at 8:57 am

Wake up!

link to youtube.com

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

17 February, 2018 at 11:58 am

Watching Alex Salmond’s interview with Mary Lou McDonald pushed me into one of my “wish I was Irish moments” and a listen again to the Foggy Dew by the Wolfe Tones.
link to youtube.com

Why don’t we have the songs? I remember meeting Dominic Behan when he worked for STV and lived in Bothwell. He wrote some crackers – The Patriot Game, Come out you Bl*ck and Ta*ns and many others
I mean, Caledonia and Flower of Scotland are nice – but well they’re nice……….

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

17 February, 2018 at 4:38 pm

And of course this man, born and brought up in Edinburgh,a member of the original Scottish Socialist movement with Keir Hardie, shot tied up in a chair, because he was too close to death to be able to stand for his execution. Even the Brits couldn’t bring themselves to shoot a man lying on a stretcher.

This stupidity of the British against all the rules of war of shooting men who had surrendered turned a hesitant Ireland to independence

link to youtube.com

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Ian Brotherhood says:

17 February, 2018 at 9:54 pm

@Dave McEwan Hill –

It’s a grim thing to even consider, but perhaps Scotland will have to be on the receiving end of full-blown WM-ordered gratuitous sadism before we produce anthems of similar quality.

Have been watching the film ‘Dresden’ big 3-hour production from 2006 (I think) – it’s on YT. Just over halfway through now, at the point where Harris has finally decided that Dresden ticks all the boxes i.e. densely populated urban area with narrow streets etc. It is mentioned by Harris that the bombings are a form of experiment. Tornados of fire weren’t a by-product – they were the aim. (Just as happened in Tokyo, where over 100,000 civilians were incinerated in one night.)

I don’t know how much the shaming of David Irving has affected mass consciousness in ‘Britain’ re the Dresden atrocity, but we have Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse Five as a counterbalance. In any event, the documentary evidence is overwhelming and utterly damming. Mind you, I keep putting-off watching the rest of it…

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

17 February, 2018 at 10:38 pm

Ian
One of the most enduring successes of imperial Britain has been to convince a significant section of snooty Scots that they are somehow superior to the scruffy Irish potato munchers.

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

17 February, 2018 at 11:41 pm

Hello Betty Boop
Delighted to know that you and Jim T will make it to the Wingdingaling on 7th April.

Bringing buffet-style food is optional but will add to the food already on offer.

I look forward to seeing you on the 7th in the Otters head.

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Tinto Chiel says:

18 February, 2018 at 10:38 am

Ian: try The Fire by Joerg Friedrich and The Bombing War by Richard Overy.

Harris knew from the bombing of Luebeck in 1942 what he was doing: a mediaeval, mainly wooden city with small streets was ideal for creating a firestorm.

He repeated it with his summer bombing of Hamburg in ’43. Over a few nights over 50000 civilians died, with over 40000 injured/wounded. Total Bomber Command deaths for the whole war amounted to 56000 +or-.

Even the Americans at that stage deplored what was euphemistically called “area bombing” by Harris. Of course, things changed later and they would eventually sanction the worst bomb of all.

BDTT had some good links on here a while back about RAF raids, I remember.

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

18 February, 2018 at 12:37 pm

Hi Tinto Chiel.

Here are some of the links I posted.

“Allied bombers chose ‘easy’ German targets
By Richard Norton-Taylor, The Guardian, Thursday 23 August 2001”

link to hartford-hwp.com

“Third Reich in Ruins – Würzburg Part 1”

link to thirdreichruins.com

The link to Part 2 is at the foot of that page.

“Lost Images Of World War 11”

link to lostimagesofww2.com

Lastly, this is a video which was shot by an American cameraman, a couple of months after the Würzburg bombing.

link to youtube.com

(Würzburg is twinned with Dundee.)

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Tinto Chiel says:

18 February, 2018 at 3:19 pm

Thanks a lot, Brian.

This time I’m putting them in my faves straight away.

I remember watching a documentary on Bomber Command a while ago which actually had some crew deploring Harris and his tactics: one called him a butcher, outweighed of course by the usual gung-ho types.

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Tinto Chiel says:

18 February, 2018 at 3:34 pm

This all I want:

link to youtube.com

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yesindyref2 says:

18 February, 2018 at 4:44 pm

The theory of the Dresden bombing is the same as the Munich one – they were both about as far away in Germany as bombers could get from dear old Blighty, and showed that nowhere in Germany was safe, hence an attack on morale as well as a target.

I say that without comment about the firestorms.

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yesindyref2 says:

18 February, 2018 at 4:51 pm

The others of course are that the marshalling yards were requested by the Russians and had been for some time, and even another theory that it was to show the Russians that they could be reached as the communist threat had been long since recognised.

Pretty brutal stuff, all out warfare.

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Tinto Chiel says:

19 February, 2018 at 9:46 am

No reason.

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

19 February, 2018 at 5:33 pm

Belgian punk, ya bass!

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

19 February, 2018 at 9:20 pm

Hello! Anyone about?

*No Smallaxe, Nana, Fred, Ian B, Thepnr, Marie C, BDTT, Cameron B und so weiter*

Disembodied Voice: “Hey, Tints: anything bothering you at the mo?”

Me: “Frankly, yes. I have been musing at length on the place-name Balbirnie.

At first I thought it might be G. “baile Bhreannain” (Brendan’s farm) but that is not the only possibility. It could also be “baile bhraonaigh” (farm at oozy, wet place).”

DV: “Thank you for expatiating thereon.”

Tints: “Nae probs, doll.”

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Thepnr says:

19 February, 2018 at 10:13 pm

@Tinto Chiel

I’ve just popped in to see what’s happening. So what’s happening?

Ah, it’s all quiet I see. here’s a bit of noise that the music teacher played me at school. First time I ever heard Classical music.

This though is my take on that 1812 classic.

link to youtube.com

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Brian Doonthetoon says:

19 February, 2018 at 10:16 pm

Hi Tinto Chiel.

C’mon – I was on yesterday. I have a life to live.
I can’t be on here all the time.

Onnyhoo, how’s your footritt? (Spelling?)

Reply
Fred says:

19 February, 2018 at 10:21 pm

Just popped in to see wots shakin! been enjoyin the pre-Spring warmth!

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Thepnr says:

19 February, 2018 at 10:25 pm

Here’s a bit more noise this time from Down Under. No not that band, stick with it as there is a pleasant surprise around halfway through that I’m sure you’ll enjoy.

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

19 February, 2018 at 10:36 pm

This just gets worse!

“Footritt” says BDTT. Do you mean futret? Harvey’s a bluidy RABBIT!!!

Fred: “pre-spring warmth”? I’ve still got a patch of melting snow up the back of my garden!

Thepnr: thanks for your musical sanity.

*Takes deep breaths*

I feel better now: mofftaemapit.

*Stomps up stairs like moody teenager*

Reply
Lucia Daines says:

20 February, 2018 at 1:37 am

*makes tea – brings out cake – loves everyone*

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 9:03 am

Thank you, Miss Daines, for your consideration.

*Looks around sheepishly*

Apologies to all for my intemperate words of hier soir: yesterday was a significant birthday and this is my “Beatles Year” hem, hem, if you get my gist.

*Reflects on vacuity of his existence*

Mmm, this cake is very good, Miss Daines. Dundee?

Scrummy!

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

20 February, 2018 at 11:13 am

If you haven’t seen this it is pretty topical right now

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 12:43 pm

The power of humour and scorn, and so many great points made in both parts: brave and brilliant.

We could do with this approach for Indyref2. Obviously nothing like this would ever get on BBC if it were ridiculing the Yoons, but in all our wee conversations I believe H&S can be a powerful weapon in catching opponents off guard and stiffening the resolve of the DKs.

I find the semi-mystical regard some Americans have for their constitution quite ridiculous. It’s not bloody Holy Writ, it’s just words on a bit of paper which can be amended at any time if there’s a will to do it.

Reply
cearc says:

20 February, 2018 at 1:18 pm

Happy ‘Yesterday’ (sticking to the Beatles them). Perhaps a wee celebratory trip to Norway is in order?

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 1:24 pm

Thanks for that, cearc. I’ve never been in a Norwegian wood.

From Adonis to Acropolis in forty twelvemonths…..

* Muses, wipes away a silent tear*

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

20 February, 2018 at 2:33 pm

Tinto Chiel at 12.43

Exactly. Derision is the most powerful of all political tools (except apparently where Boris is involved?)

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 3:24 pm

Sometimes, Dave, even Tories tell the truth:

link to archive.is

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Thepnr says:

20 February, 2018 at 4:56 pm

@Tinto Chiel

Over on the MT you posted “The exact effect of The Vow has never been quantified by any academic study I have heard of…”

I’ve spent most of the day looking at this and I believe there was academic research done called “Scottish Referendum Study 2014”.

The lead researcher on this was one Professor of Political Science Ailsa Henderson of Edinburgh University. The group doing the study were funded to the tune of £248,349 by public body the Economic and Social research Council.

You can read more about the study and funding here:

link to gtr.rcuk.ac.uk

I believe I’ve found a few anomalies in their research, more later.

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 5:16 pm

Thanks very much for that, Thepnr.

I always start at the back of these kind of things, and found the Outcomes “interesting”.

I’ll work my way through the sections shortly.

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Thepnr says:

20 February, 2018 at 6:57 pm

@Tinto Chiel

I guess that if you made it as far as the Publications tab you would have found that three are books and the other two give no information whatsoever.

That’s what I wanted, simple links to the surveys that were carried out by Yougov on behalf of this study. I cannot find them but I did find this which is a PowerPoint presentation.

“Scottish Referendum Study 27 March 2015”

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

The interesting slide and one of the anomalies I talked is slide No 7 of 40 giving the age demographics of younger voters Yes/No.

For the 16-19 age group it has Yes at 62.5% and the 20-24 age group Yes at 51.4%. These seemed in line with what I believed.

So how come that 6 months later in September the BBC (and others) were reporting these findings:

The research found that older voters were strongly in favour of Scotland remaining part of the UK, including 67% of those aged over 70.

But the academics behind the Scottish Referendum Study note that the youngest voters, aged between 16 and 24, appear to have voted ‘No’ as well.

Those aged 25 to 29 were in the age group most likely to vote ‘Yes’, with 62% for independence, yet teenagers and those in their early twenties were 54% for the Union.

Check the bar graph in this BBC report with slide 7 from March all the figures have changed but in particular for the young.

link to bbc.com

Same study reporting 6 months apart, results polar opposites in a study costing more than 1/4million. Does not compute, more later.

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Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 7:46 pm

Those are strange finding for the younger groups, I agree. I suppose you could argue that voters of school age might still be affected by their more “conservative” parents, but it wasn’t my or my elder daughter’s experience as secondary teachers at the time. We were, of course, forbidden to discuss the referendum with the pupils, but it didn’t stop some staff from trying to get students to vote No.

Senior students imo were excited and energised, mainly because few read the Dead Tree Scrolls and relied on alternative media for their info. We got lots of kids coming into our Hub at lunch times to pick up DVDs, pamphlets, wrist bands and stickers.

As for Scottish students (many of whom I canvassed with during the Ref once I had retired) the above, but only more so.

A poster on the M/T today (sorry, I can’t remember who) made the excellent point that people don’t want to admit they’ve been had, so this may account for the numbers apparently denying the Power of The How Now Brown Vow (Socrates or Bob Mack?).

Reply
Thepnr says:

20 February, 2018 at 8:00 pm

@Tinto Chiel

But which findings are strange? The ones reported in March showing 62.5% of 16-19 y/o or the ones reported in Sep showing just 45.7% for Yes?

The results are supposed to be from the same study so why are they so different?

Here’s a video with Professor Ailsa Henderson giving a presentation of the results, this time from the Sep results as they are so different from the March results posted earlier. It proves though that both sets of results supposed to be from the same study.

The fact that they are different, well no explanation is given.

This video is 12 minutes long and your original query Tinto about academic study into the Vow is given the whole last four minutes.

link to youtube.com

However there is a massive flaw in her summary and I’ll tell you later as it’s too much for just this one post LOL.

Reply
Thepnr says:

20 February, 2018 at 8:06 pm

@Tinto

Apologies if I’m making your head nip, been reading this stuff all day as I said and it still doesn’t make sense to me. I didn’t intend to make anyone elses nip either but it’s always helpful to have a second opinion.

You can overdo this stuff and I probably have today though I’m like a terrier with a bone I won’t give it up and keep gnawing at it until I’m satisfied that there’s nothing more to be got from it. Then I’ll walk away

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

20 February, 2018 at 10:51 pm

Keep gnawing, Alex.

Why are they so different? I can’t explain that at all: it seems totally inconsistent and contradictory.

You would need someone with statistical knowledge to look closely at this study: I am not that masked stranger.

I’m beginning to think this is an example of the Rev’s maxim: ignore the headlines, examine the small print.

My impression over the last four years, confirmed by my heiresses who are never off social media, is that the kids are all right, and will vote the right way without question, so frankly, I am confuseddotcom.

I suspect you have discovered what may be charitably called an anomaly, or, less so, bullshit.

Reply
Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 12:33 am

Just noticed now that we have three different results from the same study for 16-19 y/o who voted Yes.

March 2015 says 62.5%

Sept 2015 says 45.7%

The video from Oct 2015 is different as the figures are 16-17 50% and 18-24 51%.

Hahaha If I paid £248,349 for this “research” I’d be asking for my money back. I have one last thing to say about the anomalies but I’ll save that for tomorrow.

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 1:48 am

@Thepnr
Good project of yours, that got quoted recently. Followed a link from

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

to

link to scottishreferendumstudy.com

and found this which sets the scene for any bias:

“In a somewhat crushing blow for Alex Salmond and the Scottish Nationalist Party . . .”

Academic study my arse.

That link of yours “three waves” of surveys, yet the graphics don’t say which one they relate to. I wouldn’t get my business supplies from them.

“3 wave internet survey, fieldwork YouGov (split sample BES, SES)
Wave 1: 22 August – 17 September (rolling cross section)
Wave 2: 22 – 26 September (small and large questionnaire)
Wave 3: March 2015
Sample size wave 1: 4849
Sample size wave 2: 3719 (across 2 surveys)”

Haven’t looked any further, back to bed I’m fair knackered.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 9:26 am

“The How Now Brown Vow”: now I come to think of it, I think that was one of Chic(k) McGregor’s.

Reply
Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 10:26 am

@Dave McEwan Hill

The link might be of interest to you, Pro-Indy Radio Stations wanted.

link to twitter.com

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Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 10:36 am

@yesindyref2

That website link to scottishreferendumstudy.com has been hijacked and has only two stories on it one of which is about luggage?.

I used the Wayback Machine yesterday to see pages going back to when it was originally set up and it was only ever used once for the launch of the preliminary results of the study and was never updated.

The fact that other than the presentations I can find no reference to the results does bother me and that is why I spent so much time on it.

Regarding the dates of the surveys that is my final anomaly, will take a wee while to make a coherent post and I’ll get round to it sometime today.

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 12:20 pm

You go away for a couple of days and it all goes off.

Anyroads. Have you clocked this Paul?

link to independent.co.uk

Appears someone is stacking the constitutional deck and planning ahead.

Onwards: This won’t raise any eyebrows, but it should leave you shaking your head.

link to politics.co.uk

This is pretty much what we’ve come to as a United Kingdom. Anyone supporting that REALLY needs to take a hard look in the mirror. Of course, not just that though. There’s also this wee sweety in today’s National.

link to thenational.scot

Standing up for Scotland etc. Tories who would sell your futures and condemn you to the hardest of Brexits. They could care less if you existed. Call it what you will. I call it Conservatism personally. Actually, no. Nor is it simply British Nationalism. Though it’s all of that. No, its more culling the weak? Survival of the fittest? An act of self serving callousness.

(Apologies for the lack of archiving, but I think I’m going to need to reload the damn thing. It’s glitching like a wossiname anytime I’m on those sites)

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 12:24 pm

P.S. I’d posted the above comment elsewhere, but thought the links fairly essential to spread around.

Spidey sense tingling.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 12:30 pm

Macart: saw this and thought of your quick arrival and departure yesterday once you realised the topic.

link to youtube.com

I think there is no doubt that Tories are simply utterly selfish, heartless and wicked. Where would tank Straddler be w/o the MSM lifebelt?

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 12:46 pm

@Tinto Chiel

It was a bit like that right enough.

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Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 1:20 pm

I know this should be on the main thread, but folk are preoccupied.

link to twitter.com

Basically – OFFS!

Reply
Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 2:38 pm

Always nice to see you drop in on Off Topic Macart. A sanctuary at times LOL.

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 3:05 pm

@Thepnr

Well, y’know, I didn’t want to interrupt…

Reply
Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 3:56 pm

@Macart

Just read the WGD article, he sure does have a way with words. He’ll be a legend one day Loved this

Jacob Rees Mogg is pretty pissed off about Davie’s remarks, as it means he got his nanny to bolt a flame thrower onto the Bentley for no reason.”

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 4:27 pm

When will people wake up?

link to youtube.com

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Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 5:25 pm

@Tinto Chiel

I can’t answer your question but it may possibly be in these lyrics.

hwww.youtube.com/watch?v=PizUw4GmCUo

Reply
Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 5:25 pm

@Tinto Chiel

I can’t answer your question but it may possibly be in these lyrics.

link to youtube.com

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 5:53 pm

Or maybe this one:

link to youtube.com

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yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:07 pm

I even bought them, Brutus Gold rings a bell. Anyway wife’s out so that was full blast and the ones that follow.

*nostalgia*

Ah, that’s better, moved poor Hamish from leaning against the left speaker facing me. Crank up the volume again …

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:09 pm

Mmm, Radar Love …

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Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:17 pm

Esteemed gentlemen, you are being unduly pessimistic…..

There’s nae pouches in a shrood but I’ll have my Scottish Passport in my jeans as I go to The Bad Fire quite happily, heeheehee.

Yesindyref2: David Dundas……

Did you have to?

*Feels queasy*

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:28 pm

Well take this

link to youtube.com

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:40 pm

Mmm, better make my peace with ~~Paula~~

link to youtube.com

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 6:54 pm

@Thepnr

He does have knack for laugh out loud prose.

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Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 7:29 pm

Nothing wrong with a bit of ZZ, though I’m not sure what their views are on Scottish independence, frankly.

Might try to interest those charming young ladies in my monograph on Lanarkshire place-names…..

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 7:49 pm

Fancy a muffin?

link to youtube.com

Reply
Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 8:36 pm

The latest offering.

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

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Macart says:

21 February, 2018 at 8:43 pm

This is also worth memorizing and spreading.

link to twitter.com

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Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 8:49 pm

Final anomaly? Humour me for now

I’m not in the mood of laying everything out as it’s too much work so only if you are interested you might care to watch that video again for the final anomaly?

link to youtube.com

If you look at the video around 30 secs in it shows a slide of the Methodology used, we’re interested for now on Wave 1 then pause it.

You’ll see that wave 1 was a rolling poll done over 4 weeks w/e 29/08, 05/09, 12/09 and 17/09 with the same respondents questioned each time (the slide doesn’t say that but trust me). In particular we’re only interested in the dates for weeks 1 and 4 as that is what is used in the later slides that I’m about to talk about.

Speed forward now in the video to around 9’20” and you will see the slide “Impact of campaign on vote choice (week1)” you should keep watching from there until around 10’12” where you now have a slide with the comparison between week 1 and week 4.

This clearly shows that the influence of “more powers” has increased by around 10% but this increase is now about to be dismissed by the Prof as irrelevant.

Watch until the end I’m about to post a transcript anyway.

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Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 8:55 pm

The good Professor informs us:

“If we thought the Vow mattered, if we thought that the promise of more powers mattered. We would have expected to see a significant, a substantial jump in the ability of that variable to explain why people voted Yes and why people voted No.

And it increases a little bit but it doesn’t increase substantially and instead what we find is that other arguments matter more and the main message I think from this slide is the argument that was made by the Yes campaign about what the gap between rich and poor would be like.

Whether it would get smaller under one condition or larger under another condition had more traction with voters by the end of the campaign than it did by(sic) the start of the campaign.

The other thing is that the argument about the economy started to lose traction a little bit, so if you want to know what the referendum would look like had it been maybe one extra week. What we might have found is that the results would have been closer than if they were held on the 18th.”

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Thepnr says:

21 February, 2018 at 9:06 pm

Well you want to know where I believe that the good Professor’s argument falls down? It is in the data itself that she uses to support her argument.

Week 1 was from the 22nd to the 29th August, week 4 from the 12th to the 17th September.

She states:

“If we thought the Vow mattered, if we thought that the promise of more powers mattered. We would have expected to see a significant, a substantial jump in the ability of that variable to explain why people voted Yes and why people voted No.”

However, the Vow was not published in the Daily Record until the 15th of September and much too late to have any significant effect on that weeks polling to make the polling for that week reliable in order to make such a statement.

What I really want to know though is why was this research given £248,349 of public funds yet the results are not redily available to the public.

Who received all these results and the research and what was the purpose of it. Did the SG get a copy? If not then why not.

I’ll tell you this is the likes of Wings had £248,349 donated by government to spend in this manner you can be sure we would have done a damn sight better with it that this lot have done.

It’s an example of how our own taxes are used against us, this research provided plenty headlines for the BBC and the Papers to ridicule Alex Salmond in his assertion that “The Vow” cost the Yes side 10% of votes.

I know who I believe. Bastards.

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Tinto Chiel says:

21 February, 2018 at 9:37 pm

Almost £250000 smackers for this dreck? Certainly jobs for the boys.

Are we surprised?

Thanks for the exposé, Thepnr.

Reply
cearc says:

21 February, 2018 at 11:05 pm

Well done, Thepnr.

Reply
Marie Clark says:

22 February, 2018 at 11:26 am

Morning all, my my, OT has taken a serious turn recently, has it no?

Nae Smallaxe, hope he’s just having a wee rest and is doin okay. Nana is taking a wee break as well. Her links were the only thing making the MT bearable just now. Things must be bad when we even have Macart coming OT for a much needed rest. I remember when wings MT used to be a lot of fun, great education, and folk wi’ a sense of humour. Some folk at the moment are so far up themselves they’ll never see daylicht again. Dearie me.

I too, have been having a wee rest, it just gets too much sometimes. Onywhoo, I hope a’body is well and enjoying the better weather. It’s been lovely doon here the past few days. I even got the washing oot and dried yesterday. I know, I’m a sad wee soul and easy pleased.

link to youtube.com

link to youtube.com

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 1:25 pm

Quite agree with your sentiments, Marie. M/T is in the doldrums at the mo.

Harvey wouldn’t watch that clip with the purse: he’s been in the huff for ages because I wouldn’t take him into Glasgow on the train. Don’t know what to do to restore his equilibrium but he doesn’t like goat-nadgering, so that little treat’s oot the windae. He’s standing beside my holly tree making cut-throat gestures to a grey squirrel.

Missing Smallaxe, too. I know he likes a rude one, so this should be right up his rue:

link to youtube.com

My legal representative has asked me to point out this is neither an invitation nor exhortation, btw.

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 2:02 pm

Harvey’s got his Walkman on full blast now.

link to youtube.com

Getting a bit worried about him.

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Thepnr says:

22 February, 2018 at 2:33 pm

@Marie Clark

I wouldn’t normally post serious stuff on OT but as Tinto asked the question and I ken he bides here I decided to respond to him here. Otherwise my “serious” response would have been swallowed up over on the MT.

Just for you here’s some Glasgow patter a bit less serious

link to youtube.com

Reply
Marie Clark says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:05 pm

@ Thepnr, aye thanks for that Alex, that’s a bit mair like it, ye cannae beat a good laugh.

Tinto, I’m sorry to hear that Harvey is still in the huff. I thocht that he wid ha got ower it by noo. Mind you, he has excellent taste in his music. Mibbies this will coax him oot.

link to youtube.com or mibbies this wan.www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OvsVSWB4TI

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Marie Clark says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:09 pm

Oops, second link not right. try again.

link to youtube.com

I’ve just realised how bad the MT is even man @ c&a has shot the craw. That’s a bonus I would say.

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:24 pm

It’s getting worse, Marie. He saw your first clip and is now staring inanely into the middle distance while twirling his whiskers.

What have we done?

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:33 pm

Jeezo, forgot Mascagni always makes him greet.

Back to square one, I’m afraid.

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:40 pm

Found the antidote:

link to youtube.com

He likes Naples…

*Wipes brow, pours two responsible fingers of malt*

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Marie Clark says:

22 February, 2018 at 3:54 pm

Oh naw Tinto, was Jessica Rabbit too much for Harvey, she’s quite a gal. I didnae mean tae make him greet, aw the pair sowel.

Well I hope he’s doing a bit better now. By the way, was the malt for you or for Harvey?

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Tinto Chiel says:

22 February, 2018 at 4:00 pm

Why, Harvey, of course. Sun’s not over the yard-arm yet Where I Am, Marie.

*Takes beamer, shifts uneasily in seat*

Reply
K1 says:

22 February, 2018 at 4:09 pm

The man called C%A
Has finally gone away

I hope that nuthin’ bad
Has happened tae his person

But ahm no sad he’s gone
For this was his main lesson:

Ye cannae talk aw shite on Wings
And no expect a fight

And though MT is bad right noo
It’s fair tae say wihoot him

It’s better than it could’ve been
Wi us aw settin’ aboot him

But here’ the rub
It’s hard tae say

But someone has tae speak it
SD is back amongst us aw

Bold and brash and sleekit
As one retreats another comes

As night must follow day
We must remain on guard no less

Because we know him well
His Tory stink is just as bad

And leaves an awfy smell.

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

22 February, 2018 at 4:17 pm

@Thepnr
Count me in to help sometime, got stuff on right now and suffering a bit from an ankle I strained sitting or standing or sleeping or nothing at all, really.

The argument that “the VOW had no effect is being used by Unionists, and it’s rubbish, it did have an effect, specially those looking for an excuse to vote NO, but in particular for the Devo-maxers who didn’t think there was any chance, and were soft YESses as before that they were becoming convinced (rightly) Devo-Max had no chance.

They are still the battleground, and Unionists are moving in and taking up their posittions.

Reply
Thepnr says:

22 February, 2018 at 4:54 pm

@K1

Liked your wee ditty it’s one of the reasons I started posting again after a necessary break.

Reply
Thepnr says:

22 February, 2018 at 5:27 pm

I’m sure some of you have noticed that if you use an ad blocker then you can’t read articles on The Scotsman website.

I get round this by right clicking the link and using “open in incognito window”. I;ve just done that for this article

link to scotsman.com

What a disaster that page is with adverts totally drowing out the story, your adverts may be different from mine as I’m sure it depends on your broswing history and cookies ect.

That page though is a total mess and basically unreadable, another nail in The Scotsman’s coffin for sure.

Try it and see for yourself.

Reply
cearc says:

22 February, 2018 at 11:36 pm

Thepnr,

Tried it. With Firefox and adblock plus it looks fine.

Reply
Thepnr says:

23 February, 2018 at 12:16 am

@cearc

Thanks for the feedback, I can’t access the Scotsman with Adblock on so surprised that you did. Maybe I need to try Firefox. Hey Ho.

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

23 February, 2018 at 3:57 am

I can’t get the Scotsman with Firefox and ABP, but I’ve also got uBlock, perhaps that’s the difference – or my own paranoid settings.

Thinking about this franchise thing, seems to me we should put in a consultation to balance some of the more, errr, debatable suggestions, even if perhaps we generally accept it as it is.

I’m thinking of a blanket 2 year requirement, BUT with options for other routes, such as selling a house or giving up a council house or moving out of parents houses and moving to Scotland, with some verifiable way of residence that could make it a year – or even 6 months. Think Lollysmum for instance, I think it is. Why shouldn’t she vote quicker, she’s made Scotland her home?

It’d need to have difficult guidelines and checks to see if a B&B or holiday home address – or student residence or flat, and perhaps a self-statement, punishable by prosecution if falsified.

Waddya think?

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

23 February, 2018 at 10:49 am

yesindyref2 at 4.17

“those looking for an excuse to vote NO,”

Correct. They were already voting No but were struggling to find a way to explain that and sound sensible.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

23 February, 2018 at 11:35 am

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

23 February, 2018 at 6:24 pm

link to youtube.com

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yesindyref2 says:

24 February, 2018 at 2:37 am

Time to bring this out of hiding

link to youtube.com

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yesindyref2 says:

24 February, 2018 at 2:47 am

And this’ll bring a smile to any face

link to youtube.com

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Ian Brotherhood says:

24 February, 2018 at 1:03 pm

Jimmy Reid interviewed by Jonathan Dimbleby, 1972. Note how scathing he is about some ‘Labour’ people at 11.30mins. Plus ca change…

Another wee gem currently being shown on Truly Scottish TV.

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

24 February, 2018 at 9:07 pm

Thanks very much for that, Ian. First time I have seen this since the first time.

Young “Lefty” Dimbleby seemed at times quite flummoxed by his simple truths, ideas he had probably never been expose to.

I feel Jimmy’s strength came from his membership of the CP, rather than the Labour (“There have been some smashers, haven’t they?”). My political education began with three of four CP members, who argued against my “nationalism” and gave me Lenin’s chapter and verse on the topic, but they were all pretty poor materially and had principles, and died poor(ish).

They were all peaceful, intellectual types, yet attempted to justify the wiping out of the kulaks as a class. They couldn’t have harmed a flea, and we all knew it, and that was their salvation, at least in my mind.

The few who have survived to this day that I still know (three of them) are Yessers, one a Green, two still CP in sympathy/membership.

For those who haven’t read it before, I append as usual:

link to gla.ac.uk

Btw: for those 80 minute patriots, like some of my ghastly family members, I hope that, after today, you are now 525,600 minute Scots.

Not holding my breath, mind.

Reply
Fred says:

24 February, 2018 at 9:20 pm

@ Tinto, the great thing about electing a Communist shop-steward was that they wouldn’t take a gaffer’s job!

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

24 February, 2018 at 9:48 pm

25-13

*portents*

Mmm, just found this and watching it, no idea yet if it’s any good:

link to youtube.com

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yesindyref2 says:

24 February, 2018 at 9:51 pm

Mmm, I think the answer is “it’s a disaster” acording to the economist. No surprise there then.

25-13

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Tinto Chiel says:

24 February, 2018 at 10:17 pm

@Fred: quite true. I respected them for that.

I got to know one very well by the time he retired. He was in British Intelligence (if that’s not a contradiction) in WW2 and served mainly in the Balkans. He ended up as a junior member at various negotiations with old Tito, whom he had much regard for.

I presume his CP membership dated from after the war, since I can’t imagine prole membership would be permitted in the security services: only folk like Philby and Blake could pull that one off.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

24 February, 2018 at 10:47 pm

Just noticed Jimmy’s speech was printed by Thomson Litho of EK.

Matt Thomson was a very “robust” gap-toothed right back for Motherwell FC in the 60s before going on to build a very successful business.

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

24 February, 2018 at 11:59 pm

@TC –

Cheers for that link to Reid’s speech.

I’ve definitely ‘seen’ it before, and we’ve probably had it linked right here, but I don’t recall ever reading the printed version.

It’s very moving. The whole look of it ‘on the page’ so-to-speak reminds me of Orwell essays. Perhaps it seems ridiculously naive now, but I can’t imagine how any decent human could take objection to anything he said/wrote there.

Meanwhile, in the here-and-now, where we all have to be pragmatic and ‘realistic’, the Leader of the Free World reiterates his ‘initiative’ that teachers should be armed.

‘Oh, if only Orwell was still alive!’ said Cyril Connolly or somesuch other of his contemporaries, wondering what he’d make of this, that, or what-not. Aye. And what of Reid? What the actual fuck would he make now, of the Labour Party, of Scotland’s treatment by WM, of ‘Brexit’, of ‘The Glasgow Herald’?!

Strange days indeed…most peculiar momma!

Reply
yesindyref2 says:

25 February, 2018 at 2:03 am

Well IB, I’ve been wondering just what effect that rugby win over England could have, the auld enemy. Could it increase confidence? I know we avoid the “Braveheart” image, but at the time I had little doubt the film increased the vote for Devolution. And it’s interesting Sturgeon tweeted with the word “bravehearts” in it about the rugby team. Maybe I’m just tired and a little emotional

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

25 February, 2018 at 8:57 am

Ian, JR could hardly hide his warm contempt for BLiS______d in the clip but God knows what he would have said of their behaviour in the referendum.

One of the most powerful points he made about capitalism/Tory ways is that it stifles each person’s potential through acquired poverty of ambition caused by material poverty and by considering them as mere economic units. Most people are born with a talent but few get the chance to develop it.

One of my daughter’s colleagues teaches in an urban comprehensive and had a pupil who was gifted on a particular instrument (no names, no pack-drill, obvs). Since the instrument was pretty much unaffordable, the teacher said she could take it home and practise on it if she wanted. The girl refused several times but when the teacher pressed her on the matter she explained her parents were addicts and would simply have sold it to fund their habit.

With the school’s support (in a number of ways) she was able to go to music college eventually and she is now a professional orchestral musician, unfortunately (but understandably perhaps) not in the land of her birth. She was one of the few of her school contemporaries to escape the man-made traps which Mad Toryworld places in the way.

I think JR would have been a great asset to the referendum campaign, had he lived to see it.

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

25 February, 2018 at 12:12 pm

Tinto Chiel at 9.07

When Jimmy passed away he was longstanding member of the Bute SNP, a fact our lefty unionists would like us all to forget. Met him at several SNP conferences. Very fond of a good malt.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

25 February, 2018 at 12:58 pm

He certainly earned them.

I expect a visit to Bella Caledonia would have increased his consumption.

Reply
Betty Boop says:

25 February, 2018 at 8:17 pm

@ TC (why do I always think of Top Cat?)
@ IanB

Thanks for the links to the wonderful Jimmy Reid speech and interviews. The humanity of that man was inspirational. More like him and the world would be a very different place.

I had a little bit of contact with him in the early 70s having typed up seemingly endless pages of proposals in the effort to save UCS. Nane o yer word processing then, thumpety thump on a manual typewriter! Those were the days…

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

25 February, 2018 at 10:00 pm

I posted a comment on the main page around 9.30. After 15 minutes refreshing, it still hadn’t appeared. Did some tweaks to the text and tried again around 9.45. Still hasn’t appeared so I’m gonna try here, with some more tweaks.
——————————————————-

Hi Cactus at 7:51pm.

You typed,
Here’s one for everybuddy (2,349,239)
link to youtube.com

As soon as the vocal started on that, I was convinced it was Sheena Wellington. So I went to the IMDB to check. Turns out,

“Auld Lang Syne
Written by Robert Burns
Performed and Arranged by The Cast (Mairi Campbell and Dave Francis)
Additional Arrangement by Aaron Zigman and Jerry Hey
Courtesy of Culburnie Records”

Now, I took that to mean the cast of the film. WRONG! Further Googling of “Culburnie Records” revealed that “The Cast” are…

“Mairi Campbell & Dave Francis are the multi-talented Scottish duo known as The Cast, whose albums The Winnowing and Colours of Lichen have attracted generous critical acclaim. Their inventive use of vocal and instrumental harmonies brings a fresh approach to the most venerable traditional material.

In 1999 The Cast performed their classic rendition of Auld Lang Syne, as heard on their debut album, The Winnowing, on the U.S. television special Kennedy Center Honors. The program honored fellow Scot Sean Connery. Mairi Campbell was also featured singing Stevie Wonder’s “We Are The World” in the show’s finale. Among the many prestigious guests attending this annual holiday event were The President and Mrs. Clinton.”

That’s from:-
link to culburnie.com

I wonder if Mairi Campbell ever studied under Sheena Wellington? Just phoned Sheena: she’s known Mairi Campbell, Dave Francis and Alasdair Fraser (owner of Culburnie Records) for years but there was no formal studying. Perhaps just subliminal influence?
Sheena did say she has only recorded “Auld Lang Syne” once – for Channel 4 at the millenium. She did sing the “original” version at two Hogmanay parties organised by the City Centre & Harbour Community Council on the North Carr lightship in Victoria Dock around 2007.

RE: Flower of Scotland. I think this is an example of a “grassroots” anthem picking up a head of steam. Around 1977/78, I started playing the 1974 live single version as the last record at family-type discos – weddings, silver weddings, 21sts, and so on. It always went down well.

Reply
Cactus says:

25 February, 2018 at 10:11 pm

Awerighty there Brian Doonthetoon ~

i, she gotta sweet Scottish voice.

See ye 7th April ’18

Gig at the Glen!

Reply
Cactus says:

25 February, 2018 at 10:38 pm

Here’s another kinda Glenn on o/t (1,446,816)
link to youtube.com

link to timeanddate.com

78.4% waxing gibbous.

Jist like a monkey.

JoG’s

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

25 February, 2018 at 10:51 pm

@Betty B –

I’m properly jealous, would’ve loved to meet the man. He reminds me of some relatives who I was terrified of because they had such a short fuse, and I can’t imagine JR suffered fools gladly. But what a decent guy – you can’t fake that kind of concern for others and I echo what TC wrote above.

Anyway, just thought I’d post this because it made me smile as well as tap my toes. It’s another working class hero, Wilko Johnson, demonstrating his guitar technique.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

25 February, 2018 at 11:36 pm

@Betty Boop: Top Cat? Not quite what Mrs Tinto has been known to call me…

You’re lucky to have known Jimmy.

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

26 February, 2018 at 12:49 am

This is the other thing that’s been making me laugh intermittently (sometimes in social situations, with awkward results) because my own children picked up on it and have been using it as a catchphrase.

Witnessed a situation here in Stevenston, on Platform I of wur ain station (approx three years ago) where *exactly* the same phrase was repeatedly howled by a very tired and emotional dude who was trying to prevent people boarding the Glasgow train. It was serious enough for Police Scotland’s Finest to attend. Clearly a very grim family crisis.

A lot of folk don’t get/like Limmy, but some of his stuff is, imo, genius material.

Limmy, ‘She’s Turned The Weans Against Us’ –

link to youtube.com

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Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 10:06 am

Catchphrases are strange. Some clever ones (at least to my ear) tried by comedians have never stuck, while other rather limp ones become established.

Paul Whitehouse of The Fast Show/Harry Enfield fame even had a sub-Arthur Askey vaudeville character with “deliberately” lame ones (“Ooh! How Queer!”/”Ooh, Where’s me washboard?”) which actually caught on (at least in my diseased imagination).

In Schlesinger’s Billy Liar, the slimy, insincere comic Danny Boone has the marvellously vapid (or deeply ontological?) “It’s all ‘appening!”, complete with hand gestures.

Limmy’s is a bit on the edge because it’s almost certainly drawn from someone’s rather painful life, as you say. But then his whole comic world teeters on the Funny/Not Funny threshold.

He’s the lime pickle of comedy, he catchphrased (not).

Reply
Betty Boop says:

26 February, 2018 at 11:28 am

@ IanB
@ TC

No need to be jealous re JR. My contact was mainly a few times on the end of a landline phone and notes about proposals. Jings, the memories. I lived in a village where, at the time, calls still had to be connected by the local telephone operator. You never knew who you might end up with on the line or who was listening in … (really!) and I’m not talking about the operators.

You know something, there was as much dirty, devious dealing went on then as now. That’s another story though.

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Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 2:23 pm

@BDTT: I think that the Mairi Campbell is the best recorded version. It’s quiet and reflective, looking back to childhood friendships now sundered.

My only slight quibble is the pronunciation of “stowp” as stoop instead of stowp in the song (ow as in gown). My Scots dictionary records the former as an O&Sh rendering, the latter being the mainland Scots pronunciation.

The trouble with stowp is that it’s not used all that much now in common speech. Has anyone heard it pronounced Where You Are, and, if so, how?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 2:25 pm

@BB: we all want to hear your other story.

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

26 February, 2018 at 2:49 pm

Hi Tinto Chiel.

Try this one…

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 3:16 pm

The thot plickens, Brian.

That was a pint-STOAP, wasn’t it?.

And an S perilously close to a Z in “syne”.

Reply
Betty Boop says:

26 February, 2018 at 5:08 pm

@ TC

@BB: we all want to hear your other story.

I know! Discretion is often the better part of valour; that way there is a chance of living to fight another day Maybe I’ll leave a memoir…

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 5:53 pm

Betty Boop: very wise.

Thought you were going to tell us about Mr. $@££* &*%£$** and the donkey on Clapham Common.

Whew!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

26 February, 2018 at 6:41 pm

A song for Miss Daines:

link to youtube.com

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:03 am

Hi Tinto Chiel.

Kieren, the singer on that video, is from Glasgow. I’ve noticed that there is a west coast tendency for some to pronounce s as z. For example, “Some of us here…” pronounced as “Some of uzz here…”.

Nicola does it.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:16 am

Indeed, BDTT.

*Mounts high horse*

Another annoying pronunciation imo is “Scoddish”, number 31 in My Little Book of WTF?, unavailable in all good bookshops.

I see that wee toady Jim Wallace using the Grievance Word against us while he trousers his ermine money for doing sfa as we are ripped out the EU against our will.

My message to all Yoons:

link to youtube.com

Am working out to this in my tartan Lycra as I type.

Reply
Fred says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:43 am

Aye Brian, it’s also a west-coast trait to call pies, pies, funnily enough!

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Fred says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:47 am

Fairly missing Nana. Doon the stair is just a troll-show these days. No wonder Petra had enough of the arseholes & took a powder!

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Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 2:33 pm

She’ll be back. I think she was also annoyed some of her posts went missing.

It’s much safer to C ‘n’ V the old pearls of wisdom, particularly on O/T, for some reason.

Reply
Fred says:

27 February, 2018 at 2:39 pm

Tinto, ye can be mair cryptic than Tonto at times!

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Lucia Daines says:

27 February, 2018 at 2:55 pm

*semaphores* Ta TC

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Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 3:27 pm

C ‘n’ V= cut and paste, Kemosabe.

My pleasure, Miss Daines.

This flitted through what passes for my mind while looking in a butcher’s window last week.

(Man enters butcher’s)

Man: Can I have a mince round?

Butcher: Please yourself, sir, but we shut in five minutes.

Eh thenk yow……

Reply
Fred says:

27 February, 2018 at 3:52 pm

Goat-it, took a while though!

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

27 February, 2018 at 4:19 pm

Was that not Larry Grainger?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 5:58 pm

Larry Grayson, surely, Dave.

Seemed like a nice boy…..

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Dave McEwan Hill says:

27 February, 2018 at 8:25 pm

Yep.

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Thepnr says:

27 February, 2018 at 8:46 pm

See that C ‘n’ V now I knew that meant cut and paste from my early forays into computers but in this particular case:

“It’s much safer to C ‘n’ V the old pearls of wisdom, particularly on O/T, for some reason.”

I thought it meant Come and Voice. By the way trolls don’t visit here (often, odd one or two), there’d be hammers.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 9:34 pm

Didn’t COLIN ALEXANDER or Colin alexander or Colin Alexander pay a visit for a wee while after Marie or Liz g mentioned on the M/T there was an Off Topic?

This is the only place we can hold hands around the open fire, have a sausage sizzle and sing Kumbaya in peace.

Mind you, my extremities are gowpin’ in all this snow.

Reply
Thepnr says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:17 pm

@Tinto Chiel

Yes he did, it was a brief visit. Just the one shift.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

27 February, 2018 at 10:26 pm

link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

27 February, 2018 at 11:03 pm

@Tinto Chiel

First hit for Elvis I believe, it’s funny how the songs you liked so much in your youth change over time. Well for me they do, maybe that’s just the dementia.

Now here’s a thing and I’m not being funny about dementia, wife has gone to Liverpool to visit our daughter so left on my own for a few days. After I dropped her at the train station I had to go to Tesco for some stuff.

It came to pay for the goods and I couldn’t remember my pin number! WTF I use it almost every week, so I gets another card out and got that wrong too!!

Embarrassed but I had enough cash so paid that. What went wrong?

I know memory starts deteriorating as you get older so doesn’t mean your heading towards dementia. Truth is now thinking about it, probably just hungover and should take a break from the beer

Reply
Michael McCabe says:

28 February, 2018 at 12:25 am

@ Thepnr Hi Alex Hopefully you we’re just Hungover. I will never forget when Uncle Bill Quit Dope. link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

28 February, 2018 at 7:57 am

I wouldn’t worry about it, Thepnr.

About 15 years ago I was going to the Mitchell Library to do some family history. Since it was July, there was a colossal monsoon-like inundation in Glasgow and I got absolutely soaked and chilled.

When I finally reached the library, I was asked to fill in a form but I couldn’t remember my address. The more I tried, the worse it got. Eventually, once I had warmed up and calmed down, I remembered it: a very strange experience.

Most people have so many pin numbers and passwords to remember the inevitable happens.

All schools shut here: lots of happy pupils.

Reply
Fred says:

28 February, 2018 at 10:07 am

@ Tinto, did U get to check the Poor Law Records at the Mitchell? chust superb, the original ledgers brought up from the cellar on a barra!

Anent the mince-round, Bishoppbriggs wummin went into the butcher’s & asks for a quarter of spam & a bone for the dog please! her wean pies up “Are we getting a dug mammy!”

Anent “Stoup!” how about “Stroup?” a spout or spoot!

Reply
Marie Clark says:

28 February, 2018 at 11:58 am

Good mornin everybody this fine snawy mornin. Hope your all safe and keeping warm.

Anent man at C&A paying a visit to OT only once, well I hiv tae confess that wiz my fault. He came oan here spoutin his usual pish and I played him this wee song link to youtube.com
to which I must say he took great exception. He wis so upset he said I was a devil woman and included the link for the song. He coulnae even get that richt, Thepnr had to help him oot. I had a good laugh at that one. When I told my beloved, he said that he had to agree wi’ him. Nice eh!

I see Smallaxe is still missing, is he having a wee rest, or is he hor de combat. Noo, come oan Smallaxe, the end game is nearly here by the look o’ things, your needed son.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

28 February, 2018 at 1:06 pm

Fred, I haven’t seen the Poor Law Records, to my shame. I suspect they would remind me of my current account…

Liked your joke. When I was wee I was often sent to the Co for butcher meat (I’ve forgotten the divvy number now) and a bone for our dog. They always gave me one full of marrow with bits of meat on it and even an upright proto-citizen like me began to see the possibilities……

He’s a sensitive wee sowill, right enough, Marie. You’ll have given him a complex now. Is he the one who occasionally uses “youse” to pretend he’s scum like wot I am ‘n’ at?

I think Smallaxe is taking a right good rest. The May demo in Freedom Square is one he’d love to get to so we can compare our new spring wardrobes. Apparently organza and Tyrian purple are going to be the must-haves this season.

It would be great to see him there.

Reply
Thepnr says:

28 February, 2018 at 3:20 pm

@Marie Clark

I’m sure Smallaxe won’t mind me saying but I heard from him recently and he’s just taking things easy for the moment and intends to be back after his battery is fully recharged.

Trying to avoid stress makes sense to me when advised to take things easy. If your passionate about something then Wings can be stressful as I am all too aware

Reply
Marie Clark says:

28 February, 2018 at 5:15 pm

@Thpnr, thanks Alex, I’m very pleased to hear that Smallaxe is taking things easy, and fully recharging his batteries. It look as if we’ll all need full batteries at the rate things are going at the moment. Goodness knows what will happen next. I wouldn’t be surprised we finish up with another GE, cause not one of the idiots darn souf know what their doing.

The MT can be very stressful at times, I know that I find, sometimes I just need to step away. It’s no guid fur the blood pressure when you’re doddin oan a bit.

Look after yourself Smallaxe, it looks like it could be all hands to the pumps soon.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

28 February, 2018 at 5:25 pm

I’m taking the time for a number of things
That weren’t important yesterday;
link to youtube.com
Peace and Love to All

Reply
Thepnr says:

28 February, 2018 at 5:38 pm

@Smallaxe

You’ve remained classy, just the acid needed topping up then

Reply
Smallaxe says:

28 February, 2018 at 5:45 pm

LSD?
link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

28 February, 2018 at 5:46 pm

@Marie Clark

I know what you mean about “doddin oan a bit”. Paula Rose has just reminded me that we both get our BUS PASSES next year.

Twa auld punks sitting together on the bus to the next Wings do, it doesn’t bare thinking about

Here’s the Magical Mystery Tour on a bus!

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

28 February, 2018 at 6:07 pm

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

28 February, 2018 at 6:17 pm

link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

28 February, 2018 at 6:19 pm

I’ve found a way now that suits me to listen to then tunes posted on OT and that’s just to let them play on in the background then carry on as normal.

Good background tune Tinto.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

28 February, 2018 at 6:48 pm

Smallaxe, mon vieux: I did listen and then I cwied. Snowmageddon here and I’m trying to keep my wee thrush alive.

It seems Sandy knew something of our own Ian…..

link to youtube.com

Try that one, Thepnr. Glad you tracked down Paula Rose. For Goad’s sake don’t mention Miss Daines.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

28 February, 2018 at 7:05 pm

“I can see colours, man.”

link to youtube.com

Drift away……

Reply
Smallaxe says:

28 February, 2018 at 7:28 pm

“I wish you could know what it means to be me then you’d see and agree that every man should be free”;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

28 February, 2018 at 11:16 pm

Cheers Smallaxe mon vieux! Mundell says U peeps are in a different country doon there. He’s oan a different planet of course!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 7:46 am

Hi Fred,

Mundell can say what he likes, we say;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:06 am

Indeed Smallaxe! Setting off to get my National so going outside now, I may be some time!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:34 am

*Looks out of window*

Nice to have known you, Fred.

Reply
Betty Boop says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:48 am

@ Thepnr

I know what you mean about “doddin oan a bit”. Paula Rose has just reminded me that we both get our BUS PASSES next year.

Yoofs, the pair o’ ye!

@Bdtt

Brian, I meant to say that I really enjoyed that version of Auld Lang Syne by the Graham Brown Band that you posted a few days back. No’ managing to keep up here…

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:50 am

Tinto, a wee song for Fred, freeze a jolly good fellow,
link to youtube.com

Reply
Macart says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:04 am

@Smallaxe

Good to see you. Hope you’re keeping well.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:14 am

Hi Macart,

I’m doing okay, thanks, I’ve just been taking it easy for a while and enjoying spending some time with my grandkids.
I hope you and yours are well, my friend.

Reply
Macart says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:23 am

@Smallaxe

All in good health here in the sunny south west. Bone dry in the south west and not a flake in sight. How’s you’re end of the region?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:35 am

Did you know Alma Cogan was Alma Mater afore she got hitched?

I’ll… get my parka.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 10:15 am

Macart,

We here in the deep south of north Britain have 4/5in of snow, we haven’t had snow lying here like this since the winter of 1995/6. The kids are enjoying it and luckily our freezer is full as we can’t get near the shops, it’s also a good excuse to have a smidgeon of brandy in my morning/afternoon/evening coffee.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 10:26 am

Tinto,

The Parka Kings:”Whiskey, Wine and Rosaries”
link to youtube.com

Sorry for the delay but my internet connection got lost in the snow.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 11:29 am

I never drink a whisky with an “e” in it, mon vieux haricot.

In memory of Fred, gourmet and doyen of but’n’benners:

link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

1 March, 2018 at 11:31 am

Never seen snaw like this for yonks, opened the close door tae a 3 ft drift! Made it to the paper-less paper-shop which also has nae milk, nae rolls & nae breid! Feel for the folks oot in the stix & the Tory faithful heading to Aberdeen, hell slap it intae them!!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 12:01 pm

Fred,
Thanks for videoing your journey;
link to youtube.com

Reply
cearc says:

1 March, 2018 at 12:39 pm

We’ve got snow now, as well. Had a little bit yesterday and the odd tiny shower but today it is proper snow, very pretty.

Smallaxe, 10.15, I assume the /s represent and not or!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 12:52 pm

cearc,

And, of course, but strictly for medicinal purposes,
link to youtube.com

That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it, hic! Lovely watter this.

Reply
Fred says:

1 March, 2018 at 1:11 pm

Thought of heading oot again to panic-buy something or other but a blizzard has arrived!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 1:38 pm

Fred,

I thought that I would cheer you up with this happy little number about a blizzard;
link to youtube.com

I’ll bet you feel a lot better now.

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

1 March, 2018 at 3:46 pm

Just entered hell on earth. My wife has discovered ITV3 with Coronation Street from what looks like the middle of last century on every afternoon

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 5:20 pm

DMH: try taking the batteries out of the remote and practising a puzzled expression.

Welcome to Tinto World.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 7:08 pm

Hey, Smallaxe, should we open an antiques shop to boost our revenue streams?

These leather culottes are chafing a bit, tbh.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 7:29 pm

Your leather culottes are chafing a bit, is that your only worry?

My mother used to buy all my clothes from the army and navy stores, you try going to school in Glasgow dressed as a Japanese Admiral and you’ll find out what chafing is!

How about us teaching this;
Slapping Leather:
link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 7:42 pm

Smallaxe, wouldn’t it be great if the O/O started line dancing instead of walking?

It would cement their place in society as utterly laughable twallies/dorkspanglers.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 7:59 pm

Too late, Tinto, that was done in Dundee at Christmas.
link to youtube.com

Recognise anyone?

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:16 pm

Maybe the American style would suit them better.
link to youtube.com

Reply
Liz g says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:34 pm

Hi Smallaxe
Good to see ye back and on fine form too….
How are you and the family..bet the grandweans are loving the Shaw..lol
Tell Mrs Smallaxe I’m askin for her..X

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:40 pm

Utter spanners, mon vieux.

Gruesome.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:49 pm

Hi Liz,

The weans are loving the snow and of course, the schools being closed adds to their delight. We are doing okay down here, I hope everything is going better for you now after your sad loss during the festive season. I wish you much love and peace, my dear friend for this and coming years.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 8:55 pm

Tinto,

I’ve been thinking, what cruel b/stard put an S in the word lisp?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:06 pm

Smallaxe, your trenchant apercu has pure proved to me you are in the Van of Modern Thought.

This goes deep, deep, my friend.

*Muses thereon*

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:13 pm

*Having mused*

Answer: A Tory?

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:21 pm

Hi Smallaxe.

Good to see you back in the groove! Your mention of “lithp” reminded me of this classic track, with a pronounced limp…

link to youtube.com

Reply
Liz g says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:30 pm

Smallaxe @ 8.49
Thank you,yes we are getting on with it,lookin forwards is the only thing fur it….as I’m sure you don’t need telling.
Stay Well my dear friend…all my best to you and yours.X

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:31 pm

This is worrying.
link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:35 pm

This is Music;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

1 March, 2018 at 9:47 pm

Should be watched by every Scot – regularly – just to remind us of the completely unscrupulous nature of our enemy.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

1 March, 2018 at 10:40 pm

Youse perr are on fire tonight! Tinto has tracked down the Slab leader’s past to Bona Antiques! Thanks for the cheery wee blizzard Smallaxe, bet Mary Ann had burnt the mince anyhow?

It’s been a long day, dye mind the hacks ye got on the back o the legs wi snawy wellies? Wonder if Ruth gets them wi aw that straddlin?

Just having a wee Laphroaig fur ma supper!

Reply
Fred says:

1 March, 2018 at 10:54 pm

Afore turning in, I give you Janet Hamilton, the Langloan Poetess!

link to monklands.co.uk fingers crossed!

Eh Thenk You!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

1 March, 2018 at 11:20 pm

Fred,

Thanks for the link to Janet, very interesting but I wouldn’t want to take hame a short pay tae her.
Enjoy your Laphroaig supper.

A wee song from Otis;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 1:01 am

Some tunes to cheer us up a bit!

Al Green:”Love and Happiness”
link to youtube.com

Wilson Picket:”Land of a Thousand Dances”
link to youtube.com

Sam and Dave:”Hold on I’m Coming”
link to youtube.com

Goodnight All

Reply
Chick McGregor says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:46 am

Forget ‘Beast from the East’.

How about a ‘Pest from the West’ comp.?

Plenty of candidates.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:58 am

As ordered Chick,

JP Jones:”Pest from the West”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Chick McGregor says:

2 March, 2018 at 11:09 am

Ta Smallaxe.

Very little new under the Sun.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 11:44 am

You’re welcome Chick.
…………………………………………………………
Brian DTT,
Brian, please accept my apologies for missing your post to me @ 1 March 2018 at 9:21 pm. Here’s a wee parody that you might enjoy;

The Ballad of the Wall;
link to youtube.com
US/UK not much difference regarding borders.

Reply
Fred says:

2 March, 2018 at 12:47 pm

No milk or papers here yet but panic-buying of wine is the thing!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 1:24 pm

I may need some, Fred.

Mrs TC has got the box sets out again and I forgot to perform the cunning Tinto Manoeuvre on the DVD remote.

Looks like Gray’s Labotomy for the umpteenth time, or Shex and The Shitty.

No wonder I end up here with the rest of the cognoscenti.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 2:10 pm

Tinto,

You’re far better off here with the cognoscenti, we’re much better informed than the rest of the plebs;
link to youtube.com

Fred,
Don’t panic, you might,”Spill the Wine”(part one)
link to youtube.com

#Manky Mates

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

2 March, 2018 at 3:37 pm

@Smallaxe –

Seeing as you’re up and aboot the place, can I please pick your brains?

Last weekend I got chatting to a man who was in and around Glasgow, same place, roughly same time as you. Very mild-mannered Christian these days but he was once a boxer in and around the meat market. He told me an extraordinarily grim anecdote about a young east end lad who was a very gifted musician and was being tutored by the famous trumpet player Eddie Calvery when he was set about by a gang of mindless sadists who cut his fingers off. Ever heard that story? I don’t want to believe it, but…

Anyway, hope to see you in here later this evening with all the usual suspects!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 4:26 pm

Hi Ian,

I’ve never heard that story but Arthur Thompson and Jimmy Boyle had a habit of nailing guys to the floor or their front door for non-payment of debts.
BTW, Do you mean Eddie Calvert;

Eddie Calvert:’Oh, Mein Papa’
link to youtube.com
Brilliant!

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

2 March, 2018 at 4:30 pm

@Smallaxe –

Sorry, my typo, yes, Calvert.

It seems the lad was a prodigy, very well known in the area, and was being tutored by Calvert. The local thugs could hear him in practise and ambushed him after he left a lesson. They knew what they were doing.

What made me curious abut the story was Calvert’s presence in Glasgow – seems a bit odd. Anyway, it’s another one of those stories, we’ll maybe never know if it’s true or not.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 4:50 pm

Typos, is it?

Zut alors, Gray’s LOBOTOMY, obvs.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 5:10 pm

Ian,

Eddie Calvert played at the Glasgow Empire in the 50s but I can’t see him hanging about long enough to give lessons.
…………………………………………………………
Tinto,

“I’d Rather Have a Bottle in Front of Me Than a Frontal Lobotomy”
link to youtube.com
Which one do you have?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 5:32 pm

I liked the bottle-holsters with shot glass loops option.

Mrs TC has just put me a glass of sauvignon blanc in front of me so I suspect an evening of box-set pain awaits.

“What fresh hell is this?”

Dorothy Parker, ya bass.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 6:09 pm

Tinto,
Just for you;

Once, when I was young and true,
Someone left me sad-
Broke my brittle heart in two;
And that is very bad.

Love is for unlucky folk,
Love is but a curse.
Once there was a heart I broke;
And that, I think, is worse.

Dorothy Parker

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 6:46 pm

Yes, she was quite a woman: all that wit mined from a pretty sad emotional life.

Am I paranoid? Just back from my daughter’s igloo. She had VichyVision on and it featured a report on the snow around Kilbarchan. After a chat with a troubled local farmer, cut to mini-market. Two locals complaining about lack of milk: some old English codger (so folk down south can understand our pain) and a nice middle-class local boy with a union jack logo on his puffer jacket.

Teetering on #SturgeonBad territory, but nicely understated.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 6:49 pm

Prime Minister Theresa May has outlined her plan to deliver a Brexit deal that ensures everyone is unhappy with it, regardless of how you voted in the referendum.

Speaking at a Mansion House event, May told attendees “Let me be clear, Brexit means Brexit, and Brexit means something very different to what you think it means.

“The only certainty I can offer you is that the eventual deal will be a huge disappointment to you personally, regardless of how you voted in the referendum.

The prime minister then went on to explain the ways in which she will disappoint those keen to see what deal we eventually negotiate.

She told those gathered, “If you voted Leave purely on the basis of stopping all freedom of movement for EU immigrants, then you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

“If you voted to Remain because you wanted to retain a full say in how the European market evolves, then you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

“If you voted Leave because you don’t want British taxpayer money going to Brussels, then you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

“If you voted Remain because you wanted to retain unfettered access to the EU market, then you’re going to be sorely disappointed.

“All in all, I think we’re doing a sterling job of pissing off just about every single stakeholder group involved in the whole mess.

“On the plus side, we have finally managed to unite Remainers and Brexiters – in telling the government it’s doing a crap job.”

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 7:05 pm

Whatever she’s paying to be her speechwriter, Smallaxe, it’s not enough.

Such honesty has a price above rubies.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 7:06 pm

Paranoid Tinto?

Watching that telllieovision will make you need that lobotomy. I haven’t got a paranoid bone in my body, btw is that nice Mr Putins first name Ras? Asking for a friend.
link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 7:18 pm

Heehee: still like the original version, with the Lovely, Lovely Laydees and Bobby Farrell cutting several rugs simultaneously.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 7:47 pm

‘Fats Putin;
link to youtube.com
I found my freedom on a 100% vodka still.

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 7:59 pm

Do you know your seventeen times tables already?

17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x
17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x
17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x 17 x
17 x 17 =

8.272402618863368e+20

1 x 17 = 17
2 x 17 = 34
3 x 17 = 51
4 x 17 = 68
5 x 17 = 85
6 x 17 = 102
7 x 17 = 119
8 x 17 = 136
9 x 17 = 153
10 x 17 = 170
11 x 17 = 187
12 x 17 = 204
13 x 17 = 221
14 x 17 = 238
15 x 17 = 255
16 x 17 = 272
17 x 17 = 289

Would that be on or off topic eh…

Next up… 18

X.

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:17 pm

Your eighteen times tables:

18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x
18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x
18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x 18 x
18 x 18 x 18 =

3.934640807529654e+22

1 x 18 = 18
2 x 18 = 36
3 x 18 = 54
4 x 18 = 72
5 x 18 = 90
6 x 18 = 108
7 x 18 = 126
8 x 18 = 144
9 x 18 = 162
10 x 18 = 180! :
11 x 18 = 198
12 x 18 = 216
13 x 18 = 234
14 x 18 = 252
15 x 18 = 270
16 x 18 = 288
17 x 18 = 306
18 x 18 = 324

Have a smashin’ weekend Scotland hehe.

Cause the Tories will not!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:33 pm

Cactus, mon vieux haricot, have no idea what your numbers portend, but I submit this:

link to youtube.com

Just to mellow us all before we ascend the broad, sunlit uplands of independence.

Mr R.Burns has advised us: “It’s coming yet, for a that.”

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:38 pm

Just out of interest, n-n-n-n…

19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x
19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x
19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x 19 x
19 x 19 x 19 x 19 =

1.978419655660314e+24

1 x 19 = 19
2 x 19 = 38
3 x 19 = 57
4 x 19 = 76
5 x 19 = 95
6 x 19 = 114
7 x 19 = 133
8 x 19 = 152
9 x 19 = 171
10 x 19 = 190
11 x 19 = 209
12 x 19 = 228
13 x 19 = 247
14 x 19 = 266
15 x 19 = 285
16 x 19 = 304
17 x 19 = 323
18 x 19 = 342
19 x 19 = 361

The quickening is quickening

I love numbers.

iAye.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:43 pm

Cactus,

Here’s the answer to everything;
link to youtube.com
The Magic is in the Music

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:46 pm

Song for Treeza:

link to youtube.com

Ouch!

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:53 pm

@Smallaxe –

That Eddie Calvert story has been bugging me. I’ve just realised that it’s probably my misinterpretation of what I was told. When the man told me that the young lad was ‘a student’ of Calvert be probably meant that the lad modelled his playing style on that of the then-famous trumpeter, not that he had him as a personal tutor. That would make sense, eh?

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 8:57 pm

Evenin’ Gents ~

Top tunes mon amigos.

Hey Smallaxe, Dixie performs that DS tune live, it’s a belter.

We’re having a party at ma hoose tomorrow evening.

The album is complete.

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:12 pm

Don’t think we’ve had this one before.

I was working in the Glasgow Art School students union bar when Jeff Buckley did a solo session as part of ‘Activities Week’, must’ve been, dunno, 94, 95? Anyway, it was very late in the week so most of the students were skint and by the time they got word out that the man was playing (and how good he was) there wasn’t time for the place to get busy. Very small crowd, maybe 25 at most and he was spellbindingly brilliant. Just like his Da…

‘I only know that peace will come when all our hate is gone…’

Tim Buckley, ‘Dolphins’ –

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:33 pm

Ian,

I think you’re right, that scenario would fit the story better as I imagine a lot of guys would want to be able to play like Eddie Calvert, he was the best of the best at that time.
“Some Enchanted Evening”
link to youtube.com
………………………………………………………..
Cactus,
Dixie who?

Reply
cearc says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:35 pm

42

Reply
Fred says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:37 pm

Ian, the fingerless trumpeter sounds like an urban myth, a bit like the beetles nesting in bouffant hairdo’s whose eggs hatched into maggots which bored into the hosts brain.

Talking of brains, I much preferred Theresa just coughing, she made mair sense!

Well, it’s Vino Tinto tonight, Slainte’

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:39 pm

Tinto,

Fancy some single Ladyees;
link to youtube.com

I can’t remember if I’ve played this before but who cares;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:44 pm

May aye follow yours Ian Brotherhood with this one:
link to youtube.com

Celebrate yeah!

Reply
Cactus says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:51 pm

Smallaxe, Dixie fae Caledonia, Scotland, ah yous huvnae met yet, now iSee.

I’ll link you in laters

Whataweek!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:53 pm

Vino Tinto, Fred? My own label: hints of Motherwell, summer fruits, leather and turpentine (not necessarily in that order).

cearc: 42? Deep and deeper. Will need to muse.

I’m afraid any Laydees too close to the Orange Hitler Black Hole Singularity may need psychological help, Smallaxe old fruit.

Am about to retire to contemplate so a good night to all you intellectuals/loblollymen/women: we have to stick together in the face of the Brexit sunami.

Not long now, Caledonians.

Reply
Brian Doonthetoon says:

2 March, 2018 at 9:58 pm

Hi Smallaxe.

No need to apologise! O/T moves quickly….

RE: trumpets.
Go to YouTube. Paste,

“Jimmy Deuchar”

into the search box then take your pick of the hits produced. Mr Deuchar is probably the most famous trumpeter to originate in Dundee. (Check the search hits.) I seem to remember he played with Johnny Dankworth’s ork. Just checked – he did.

link to nationaljazzarchive.co.uk

(Click on “Read more” for the whole story at the link.)

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:08 pm

Afore I go: I used to listen to this when my brother was out and I got control of his LPs and the Dansette:

link to youtube.com

So infectious you could set your hat at a John T Angle and keep on truckin down the mean streets of EK.

Bonsoir, mes braves.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:15 pm

Can I be gnomic while I use the old Pepsodent?

link to en.wikisource.org

I would value your input.

Night all.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:28 pm

Goodnight, Tinto, see ye the morra.

…………………………………………………………
BDTT,

I’ll check out that link, I’ve just listened to Jimmy Deuchar playing IPA Special, that’s the sort of jazz that I used to go to a pub in Charing Cross Glasgow called Crazy Daisy to listen to. I could take a lot more of that, thanks.
………………………………………………………..
Cactus,

Bobby Nicholson:”Dear Scotland (It wisnae me)”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:33 pm

cearc,
link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:36 pm

@Tinto Chiel

42

link to youtube.com

Reply
Thepnr says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:38 pm

@Smallaxe

I was a bit slow on the uptake

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:46 pm

*Now in winceyette PJs*

Thanks, Thepnr/cearc.

I’m interpreting this as a premonition of the MFC V Hearts cup tie on Sunday.

4-2 will dae me.

I may share my deep thoughts on Emily Dickinson’s peom ramorra.

Intellectuals/feminists: to the barricades.

Laters, haters.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

2 March, 2018 at 10:54 pm

Thepnr,

Thank goodness for that, I thought I’d double posted.

Beres Hammond:”Double Trouble”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

2 March, 2018 at 11:52 pm

@thewholelotayyouselot –

…..

Reply
cearc says:

3 March, 2018 at 12:41 am

Probably the best thing R4 ever did!

Reply
Fred says:

3 March, 2018 at 9:48 am

Four trees on a solitary acre, fertilised big-time by the shite of coos which shelter in their shade!

It wisnae me!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 10:19 am

Four trees in a field
Fertilized by a coo
The coo went away
There’s nae trees noo

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 10:31 am

I don’t think cowpats would ever register in Emily’s refined mind, Fred. She was unique (“Like so many others,” sez Jonathan Watson in his Denis Law voice). And all those capitals and dashes mark her out as a strange stylist.

That wee poem struck a chord with me because in my place-name rambles, mainly in Lanarkshire, I would often encounter clumps of trees on small hills or knolls in otherwise bare upland. They looked odd and mysterious to me.

I discovered later that most of these sites mark “excavations” by antiquarians or those with baser instincts looking for grave goods in the 18 and 19th centuries. Most of the barrows/mounds dug up in EK seem to be those of the Beaker Folk and therefore the urns contained only human ashes.

The diggings would then be filled in and trees planted, often beech or Scots pine Where I Am.

There also was an element of religious bigotry to it all, perhaps whipped up by individual meenisters, though not all by any means. The many large and ancient cairns in EK seem to have been regarded as disgustingly pagan by many and were used as quarries, to the point that they disappeared completely. Also, one stupid bigot in the 1700s smashed an ancient Celtic cross at Crossbasket (between EK and Blantyre) because it was too “Romish” for his taste, along with an ancient font which stood close by. That still really annoys and saddens me.

Reply
Fred says:

3 March, 2018 at 10:46 am

What the Japanese call a “High Coo” then?

Tinto, old field boundaries which have been removed leaving old trees. A couple of old hawthorns in my local park line up with the end of dyke a 100 yards away!

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 11:08 am

Native Wisdom;
link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 12:26 pm

Being an inveterate tree and Pictish stone hugger, Smallaxe, all that strikes a chord with me. Who were the savages again in the “Indian Wars”?

You can’t eat money, as the NAs say.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 1:30 pm

En Angleterre, Fred, they have some pre-Norman Conquest hedges. I think a rule of thumb to estimate their age is to count the tree/shrub species in a 100 yards of hedge. Multiply the total by a 100 to give a rough answer.

WARNING: TOTALLY CONTRIVED LINK…

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 2:30 pm

I braved the weather and drove 7mls into town today, Jack London’s nothing compared to me, the call of the mild.

“You Were On My Mind”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Fred says:

3 March, 2018 at 4:35 pm

@ Tinto, the hedges in by neck of the woods only date from about 1760 when the old rigs were replaced by squared parks. I’m sure you’re familiar with General Roy’s Maps online kid!

I have read that this formula for ageing hedges is bunkum?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 4:58 pm

Could quite easily be bunkum, Fred, but I have heard it earnestly espoused by “experts”. Since 2014 I believe nothing I can’t prove to my satisfaction…….

Roy’s maps are fascinating aren’t they? He was fae Carluke, ken. Sadly, the Ordnance Survey was mostly about suppressing the Highlands and, later, keeping the branks on the Lowlands too.

That Bella Caledonia guff has put me in a very bad mood. It’s started snowing again chez moi too.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 5:31 pm

You two are a pair o’ hedgehogs,

“The Hedge Song”
link to youtube.com
Happy noo?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 5:49 pm

Since it’s tea time and to cheer you and me up, Smallaxe: a friend of yours, I think.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 6:07 pm

More of an acquaintance, Tinto.
I first met him in the Clelland Bar in the Gorbals back in the stone age and met him again when he played Earls Court in 1973 or 74, a very interesting man was Alex.

“Last of the Teenage Idols”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 6:59 pm

Cat Stevens:”Another Saturday Night”
link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 7:07 pm

Music’s loss when he found religion.

Reply
Smallaxe says:

3 March, 2018 at 7:18 pm

Not entirely, Tinto,
link to youtube.com

Reply
cearc says:

3 March, 2018 at 8:55 pm

How strange. This evening I switched the radio on for the first time for ages and there is a programme about ‘Hitchhiker’ on.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

3 March, 2018 at 9:48 pm

He’s still got the voice, Smallaxe.

Re SAHB: my brother’s best friend was Ents Manager at the old Olympia in EK and booked Alex a few times. He had a very high regard for him as musician and man.

cearc: it’s a sign, a sign, ah tell ye…..

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

3 March, 2018 at 11:01 pm

WINGERS NIGHT OUT
Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes
(Junction of Happer Cres and Bighty Ave- further details on the web)

APRIL 7th (Weekend of Declaration of Arbroath)

A wee reminder -Original post on 5th February above.

A Wingdingaling night out for a wee(?) social gathering of Wingers (posters, lurkers, and friends) has been organised for April 7th in the Otters Head where we will have the refurbished bar area all to ourselves!!!!!

Food – Sandwiches and sausage rolls are being provided and a few wingers have expressed an interest in bringing along buffet food to supplement this. (for those who are, note that plates cutlery napkins will be provided.)

Drink – As well as the traditional range of beers, ciders, whiskies etc the pub also carries a range of exotic gins and vodkas for the trendies and sophisticates among you.

Entertainment – Landlord has no objection to Guitars, Moothies, Boxes and other musical noise creation devices being brought in. In addition a wee Scottish Quiz has been prepared for which a grand unique prize is offered. (if anyone wants a raffle this can be accommodated).

Transport,
Cars – Ample car parking is available close by.

Buses – In addition to local town services the pub is approx. 200 yards from a stop serving express services covering,
Dundee Edinburgh…X54
Dundee Kirkcaldy…X53
St.Andrews Glasgow…X24
Leven Glasgow…X26
St Andrews Edinburgh…X59

Train – The east coast main line runs through Markinch Station
(approx 5 Minutes by Taxi) and the Fife Circle line which runs through Thornton Station (also 5 minutes by taxi).

Overnight Stays
Close by, easily accessible and affordable are the following,
Holiday Inn Express, Premier Inn, Golden Acorn, Drummonds Hotel, Gilvenbank Hotel. All are approx 5 to 10 minutes away by taxi.

Also looking for a big local turnout as well, so if you stay in the area but have never been to one of these bashes then come along and enjoy the Craic.

Fingertips now bleeding so I’ll leave there pro tem. Feel free to contact me through the site if you need any more info.

Regular reminders to follow but keep this info for reference.

Hope to see lots of you there,
Chas.

Reply
Dave McEwan Hill says:

3 March, 2018 at 11:31 pm

Tinto Chiel at 4.58

I have made a serious complaint to the editor of the National about today’s Bella Caledonia and I am not alone. I will not be buying the National with Bella Caledonia in it. Of course thees guys have previous for patronising and divisive and negative stuff.

Reply
Liz Rannoch says:

3 March, 2018 at 11:35 pm

chasanderson200

Wingers Night Out.

Can me & Mr R put our names down provisionally for now? Would hope to let you know for definite in a couple of weeks if that’s OK?

Reply
Thepnr says:

4 March, 2018 at 12:45 am

@chasanderson200

Great information, that’s the way to put it out there. Good job.

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

4 March, 2018 at 1:34 am

Liz Rannoch
Wingers Social Gathering, Glad to hear from you , you and Mr R are now on the list.

The PNR
Thanks very much.

I phoned Nicola and Humza earlier and they have assured me that the snow will gone by then (tempting fate a bit there)

Reply
Liz Rannoch says:

4 March, 2018 at 7:14 am

chasanderson200 Thank you.

Sorry forgot – could somebody let me know what time the wingdingaling is kicking off?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

4 March, 2018 at 10:52 am

I must e-mail The National myself, then. I was raging after reading one article for only about a minute and it was immediately put in the recycling bill. BC is just a Corbyn Trojan Horse now, imo and why TN is supporting them, well, I’m struggling.

Watched that McCrone report you and Robert Louis linked to with my daughters, who were furious and are sharing it widely. The young ones aren’t so aware of that issue generally, though they’re on the ball with everything else on social media.

McCrone himself was disarmingly frank and I was quite impressed by him.

Reply
chasanderson200 says:

4 March, 2018 at 11:16 am

Liz Rannoch and fellow wingers.
Wingers night out Start Time.

Venue available from 5:00 pm but I would guess that most people would start arriving from 6:30 onwards. I shall be there fron 5:00 to meet early arrivals.

Reply
Liz Rannoch says:

4 March, 2018 at 3:49 pm

chasanderson200

Thank you.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

4 March, 2018 at 5:33 pm

Saw your mention of Beinn Sgritheall on the M/T, Fred.

My climbing partner were spending four days on Skye a few years ago and decided to have an “easier” day than the Cuillin by going to Glen Shiel and trying to climb it, since I’ve always liked the look of it.

After a long trudge to the final ascent in deteriorating conditions, the steep ground became incredibly slippery and we had to give up and come all the way back, soaked to the skin and buffeted by blasting winds.

Just another September day in Scotland…..

Reply
Fred says:

4 March, 2018 at 9:45 pm

Aye Tinto, Sgriol on my map (Bartholemew’s Three Shilling’s) is usually climbed from Arnisdale, so a sea-level start & straight up, you could rest yer forehead on the hill in front it’s that steep.

Is this your Unionist climbing partner that you really should have nudged aff the Inn Pin?

Reply
Ian Brotherhood says:

4 March, 2018 at 9:57 pm

@TC –

Well done to your boys today. Splendid stuff, I was listening to it in the car on the way up to Glasgow. Haven’t even seen the highlights but it sounded a real thriller with a very special goal as cherry on top.

Daresay it rounded off your weekend very nicely indeed.

Slainte!

Reply
Lucia Daines says:

4 March, 2018 at 10:22 pm

Um re Glenrothesanyone got a sofa?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

5 March, 2018 at 10:30 am

Fred: no, he was my proper climbing buddy but he’s pretty much retired now. It was the Arnisdale approach we took, but it was pretty brutal. I’m Climbing Johnny No-Mates now after my fall-out with the closet Yoons last year.

*Stares wistfully out the window at imaginary, snow-dusted hills*

IanB: we’ll get into trouble from Miss Daines for talking about You Know What. It was a somewhat “robust” hem hem cup match and the Far Easters could have won it had it not been for the post but the winning goal was an orgasmatronic experience. The guy’s completely left-footed so it should have been a Row Zer.

Mrs TC says I’m hoarse this morning…..

Reply
Fred says:

5 March, 2018 at 12:06 pm

“Those Blue Remembered Hills!” a very good autobiography by unorthodox laird Patrick Gordon Duff Pennington Ramsden!

Reply
cearc says:

5 March, 2018 at 12:27 pm

TC,

Hey, a substantial promotion. I thought she usually called you an ass.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

5 March, 2018 at 3:12 pm

Worth a punt, Fred?

That’s the least of it, cearc.

*Rueful grin*

PS: your jokes are getting worse…

Reply
Fred says:

5 March, 2018 at 8:32 pm

@ Tinto, I had a copy but lent it oot? Patrick’s, skint Highland laird father sent him to Ardverikie as a ghillie for the season & he married the boss’s daughter. Still living, he served on the Deer Commission etc’ a good guy!

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

5 March, 2018 at 8:59 pm

I see it’s to be got for about a fiver or so on A____n, a few copies available.

Reply
Fred says:

5 March, 2018 at 11:03 pm

A bit of a poet, Patrick of the hills. It’s the big hoose in Monarch of the Glen. The series helped pay to fix the roof!

Reply
Fred says:

5 March, 2018 at 11:21 pm

Naebody responding doonsterrs tae the troll the night, must be very frustrating when the pearls of wisdom get crushed underfoot!

Reply
Cactus says:

6 March, 2018 at 1:34 am

Mornin’ many Wingers.

Lookin’ forward to the 7th of April 2018 chez Glenrothes.

See yee’s there…

Pit stop

Reply
Cactus says:

6 March, 2018 at 3:25 am

Indy500 miles and beyond…

Ahm SO excited, anna jist cannae hide it, ah know ah know ah know ah know ah know, ah want YOU!

Ahm feelin’ perky

Reply
Cactus says:

6 March, 2018 at 3:46 am

G.T.C.T.T.W.Wait…

They do.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

6 March, 2018 at 10:52 am

“Pearls of wisdom”? I think you mean dangle-berries, Fred.

Mts: on our return from our Beinn Sgritheall fiasco, we had to stop at a passing-place to let a car pass. The driver was Virginia McKenna, who I think has/had a property somewhere in the area. This pleased Climbing Partner No.1, who had fallen in love with her while a schoolboy. She still had those cheese-cutter cheekbones.

It’s a funny old game, Saint.

Reply
Fred says:

6 March, 2018 at 11:42 am

Tinto, did U visit the site of Gavin Maxwell’s hoose which burned doon. Some rum goings-on therraboots His shark-fishing buddy Tex Geddes nearly shot him after a rammy. Saw the Tex guy when on Soay, an auld man, he was taking a pail of ashes? to the beach, the only inhabitant I think? You can only get into the old shark-fishing station at high tide. superb spot, the old boilers for the oil still there!

Maxwell & Geddes both wrote books on the shark-fishing, “Hebridean Sharker!” & “Harpoon at a Venture!” if I mind right. Dunno which was which?

link to geograph.org.uk

Reply
Marie Clark says:

6 March, 2018 at 3:28 pm

hi everybody, how’re you all doing. I see Nana has made a return to the MT, yay, her links are excellent and I always look forward to them.

Seems things are heating up on the political front. Constitutional crisis looming full steam ahead. The Maybot disnae seem the brightest, diz she. Stubborn, undoubtedly, but no very clever. The Rev has the fundraiser going, I see he says that he hopes that it may be last one. I hope he’s right, I don’t mean I want rid of the Rev, but I hope it means that we have regained our independence. What will we do then? We need Stu to come home to his ain folks, he should get a medal for all he has done.

I’ll leave you a wee gentle song. Was at the Hydro in Glasgow last night with my daughter and her mate, and they sang this song. It was even better live than the recording, and it’s not often you can say that.

link to youtube.com

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

6 March, 2018 at 3:45 pm

“Some rum goings-on therraboots.”

Indeed, Fred. I think he suffered from depression and money worries and I’ surmising he liked a sweet sherry occasionally.

I’ve never been to those sites and the only basking shark I ever saw was at Kylerhea when I was bird-watching. It gave the folk on the wee ferry a turn: massive, it was, and very impressive.

Did you know he employed a young Terry Nutkins of Animal Magic fame as an assistant to help him with the otters?

Marie: constitutional storm a-coming. I’ve got my sea-boots on.

Reply
Fred says:

6 March, 2018 at 8:01 pm

Knew about Nutkins Tinto, John Lister-Kaye at Aigas Field Centre also. When the hoose burned he moved to the island the Skye Bridge sits on. The House of Elrig his biog’ grandfaither a Duke so silver spoon.

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

6 March, 2018 at 8:23 pm

Maxwell had a silver spoon? Did he like stirring Maxwell House coffee with it?

My apologies……

Elrig is probs derived from the Old Gaelic eileirig, meaning “at the deer trap”. There’s an Ellrig hill in EK parish.

Full of useless stuff, me.

Reply
Fred says:

7 March, 2018 at 11:18 am

Fancy the Russians trying to kill a spy/("Tractor" - Ed) & making an arse of it! Shome mishtake shurely Miss Funnyfanny! the guy’s still alive! Boris has quite rightly threatened Putin with empty aircraft carriers. Where’s James Bond when you need him?

Reply
Tinto Chiel says:

7 March, 2018 at 1:55 pm

Pravdasound4 was a treat this morning: all about the Red Menace (USA and UK above this sort of killing thing, obvs), our glorious ally Saudi Arabia (and bigtime buyer of our magic arms and missiles wot never kill people) are invading Yemen for its own good and to bring social change, says Some Tory. I choke on my porridge, banana and forest honey at this point.

Do you think, just for once, any of the MSM could report on Syria with some attempt at impartiality/analysing what is actually going on, starting with the God-like “doyen of journalists” Jon Snow?

Saw a foto of Boris last night. Has someone stuck the head on him or did he fall down the stairs blind drunk? Threatening the Russkies with “We’re not going to yer World Cup” doesn’t seem much of a threat to me. Rest of tournament heave a collective sigh of relief as thousands of drunken skinheads will no longer be present to spoil the fun.

UK athletes taking drugs? Only the Russians do that, my dears, surely. On yer bike!

So many questions, so much utter bullshit.

Reply
Chick McGregor says:

7 March, 2018 at 4:03 pm

Maxwell had a silver hammer.

Reply

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UK Politics

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