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New military spending plans revealed

Posted on November 21, 2020 by

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    1. 21 11 20 07:56

      New military spending plans revealed | speymouth

    2. 22 11 20 16:12

      New military spending plans revealed –

    137 to “New military spending plans revealed”

    1. Morgatron says:

      Boris playing airies. Marvellous Chris.

    2. The Isolator says:

      Brilliant,stark and very very frightening. A masterpiece. Well done Chris.

    3. John Jones says:

      Naw, naw, nae bombs it’s aw gonny be done with rayguns an phasers,jist like star trek an starwars.
      Ur wi ever gonny git grown up policies an adult ideas or ur wi goin back the cowboys an indians games?

    4. Effijy says:

      At least Boris doesn’t have to bulky Dross.
      He just winds up and he is set off waving his union flag.

      I’m old enough to remember when politicians had to be totally
      Clear of controversy and have a sound set of morals in order
      To progress.

      We have been lumbered with Boris.
      A PM in a party Scots have never voted for generation after generation after generation.
      A serial adulterer.
      A compulsive liar
      A racist
      A noted hater of the Scots
      An Islamophobe
      A heavily involved in political corruption
      An alibi for criminals like Cummings, Williams and Patel.
      A man who had generated calls to the police for physically restraining his girlfriend against her will.
      Father to multiple children to multiple partners of unconfirmed numbers.
      A man sacked multiple times for inappropriate behaviour
      A man devoid of morality
      A man devoid of compassion

      There is only one way to remove this

    5. John says:

      Like it.

    6. kapelmeister says:

      At least BoJo resisted the strong temptation to draw a Junkers 88.

    7. Willie says:

      Absolutely bang on Chris Cairns.

      Johnson and his Westminster Tory command have massed their troops, inserted their insurgents and readies their war machine ready to bomb Holyrood out of existence.

      Regime change and the destruction of the apparatus of devolved governance in Scotland is their plan. Operation Scotland Storm is being readied to launch.

    8. Muscleguy says:

      Note Bojo doesn’t understand ballistics. A bomb dropped from a plance retains the forwards momentum of the plane, the curve of it’s fall is thus forward, not backwards

      That was why bombers had bomb aimers equiped with optics shifted forward.

    9. kapelmeister says:

      Operation BarbaDRossa

    10. Dan says:

      New military spending plans? Well I suppose it’s only right and proper that the salaries of that pair of dangerous rockets should be covered by military expenditure.

      If a government’s first duty is to protect the people, then this shower of shite running the show have consistently failed in that remit.
      Haven’t seen much talk on the subject of potential of restricted medicine supplies as we approach the end of transition period.

      @ Effijy

      Re. Your list, remember to include Boris conspiring with his mate Darius Guppy to have a journalist beat up.

    11. Stoker says:

      For those of you who haven’t already seen this: ((( BOOOM! )))

    12. Effijy says:

      Daily Hail backing Boris

      We must understand Patel has a busy important job
      which includes a few refugees floating around the English
      Coastline with no one to help her other than the Coastguard,
      The Navy, The Police, The Border Control and immigration officers
      so you need to let her be a bully?

    13. Stoker says:

      d’Hont explained. Hope Glasgow starts working on this SNP 1 ISP 2:

    14. Socrates MacSporran says:

      “There’s a richt big hoor o’ a spaceship heedin’ richt towards us Captain McConnell.”

      “Richt, set phasers tae malky.”

      I think that response would quieten down Boris and DRoss.

    15. Effijy says:

      Daily Hail again

      Tom Harris, former Right Wing extremist Labour Politician
      and out of the closet Tory House Boy since loosing his seat
      Has the Headline Story- Holyrood Hijacked by SNP.

      I think they call that elected by the electorate repeatedly after
      realisation of Westminster abuse of Scotland.

      Didn’t read it as the man just makes a living need feeding Scotland Bad stories
      for the UK media.

    16. G H Graham says:

      Message for Sturgeon

      There are some people who imagine that they can disarm their enemy by complacent flattery. They are wrong. The world has always belonged to the stronger and will belong to them for many years to come. Men only respect those who make themselves respected. Whoever becomes a lamb will find a wolf to eat him.

      – Vilfredo Pareto

    17. Effijy says:

      Dross present plans to change Scottish law by removing the not proven verdict?

      You don’t need to Dross!

      Boris was presented with a guilty verdict by very experienced and professional advisors
      and he just decides guilty means not guilty and the matter is closed.

      The Tories don’t do laws, they just lie and make things up and circle the wagons.

      Next he will be turning the referee’s Red card to a Blue one!
      Just watch.

    18. Republicofscotland says:

      Another cracker Chris.

      So Johnson will give a speech today to the branch office faithful during the Tory conference, he’s expected to give his commitment to devolution North of the border, though we all know that he loathes devolution and is desperate to roll it back.

      I fully expect the the Tory branch office faithful in Scotland to get behind their beloved leader, on outwardly supporting devolution but inwardly loathing it.

    19. Effijy says:

      Daily Hail

      Nicola has no right to cheer Scotland team qualification
      If she isn’t willing to bank roll it?

      I really enjoy football but when this virus prevails, Foodbanks are
      Under greater pressure and jobs are being lost right, left and centre
      I don’t think we can worry about professional players who earn 10’s
      of thousands every week, playing or not.

    20. Republicofscotland says:

      Douglas Ross, branch manager of the Tory office in Scotland has made a clarion call to the branch office of Labour in Scotland to help defeat the SNP at next years elections and stop Scottish independence for good.

      However if a recent Labour by-election where their vote share dropped by around twelve percentage points is anything to go by then, Richard whatshisname would do well to heed the writing on the wall, and back the Scottish peoples right to a independence referendum before he finds his party and indeed himself no longer required by the people of Scotland.

    21. Tinto Chiel says:

      @G H Graham: exactly.

      “If God didn’t want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep.”

      Calvera in The Magnificent Seven (not quite so elevated a quotation but it does the job too).

      In these circumstances, it’s such a relief the FM “hearts” books. That’ll do the trick with the Tories and their power grab.

    22. DRoss won’t like his caricature, ha ha ha. Well done Chris.

    23. Republicofscotland says:

      Well its no surprise that John Swinney is stalling for time in allowing Gillian Russell and Judith MacKinnon to appear before the inquiry. Swinney whose party lost a vote two weeks ago on with regards to committee business then went on to say he’d reflect on how best to move forward on providing evidence to the inquiry.

      Now we see exactly which way Swinney wants to move forwards in, or is it backwards as the chair Linda Fabiani had asked for vital documentation to be handed over to the committee in Mid-July and its still hasn’t been provided yet.

      Fabiani is furious that the very long awaited governments written timeline giving information on the process undertaken by the governemnt in investigating the complaints has still not been provided, even thought the committee isn’t seeking documents the court cannot release, Swinney’s latest delaying tactics claim he cannot allow the women to appear in front of the committee because it might risk identifying the complainers.

      Swinney acting for the Scottish government is stalling, obstructing and obfuscating on producing the required documentation for the committee, a sure sign that there’s something to hide.

    24. Willie says:

      Just read and watched this piece about riot police in Bristol setting a police dog onto a young woman committing the heinous crime of dancing at an illegal coronavirus rave.

      Savaging her on the thigh and the foot with life changing injuries one cannot but help realise the savagery that will be meted out to future independence marches or assemblies. The culture of police brutality is now accepted as normal. The independence movement is finished. Absolute brutality waits in the wings.

      Anyway, take a look at this young woman lying savaged and surrounded by riot police in shields. As a cripple now she’ll long rue the day she broke the COVID rules.

    25. Willie says:

      And for all of those of a truly independent mind here’s A fantastic advert from the good ol US of A.

      In a Christmas advert with Santa on his sled being pulled by four reindeer over a snow capped landscape the advert proclaims –

      “ Put a Henry under your tree – the guide list “

      Let’s hope that such a sentiment doesn’t catch on here. That would certainly give our increasingly tooled up police something to think about. Indy marches with marchers all carrying their Henry’s.

      Policing by consent should be the golden rule and we forget that a5 our peril.

    26. PacMan says:

      As per article:

      One of the main issues going forward is the existing overall budget shortfall, which the MoD estimates at around £7.7 billion between 2020-21 and 2024-25. The Department is already taking steps to address this gap. This additional allocation of £16.5bn cannot be used exclusively to balance that as new capabilities and new agencies are also to make use of that funding. As such, difficult decisions with older capabilities and platforms will still need to be taken. The silver lining is that those calls will be made with more information available than what only a one-year funding deal would have provided.

      I wonder how much of this proposed additional defence spending is smoke and mirrors where for instance the proposed space command in Scotland will more like be Rocket Galore than Star Trek.

    27. Hatuey says:

      Republic, I thought those two had already appeared before the inquiry.

      I can see why the timeline would be difficult, unless it includes wormholes and parallel universes.

      It’s all gone a bit Kurt Vonnegut. Rumour has it they’ve installed a time machine next to the condom machine in the women’s’ toilets at Holyrood. Ominous stuff.

    28. James Che. says:

      I believe that police only police by consent of the people in Britain, and that the police are under patal, this is the same patal who wanted to bring back hanging in Britain,

    29. Ottomanboi says:

      Ross is not exactly a ‘top flight’ brain, probably an advantage in the Scotch Unionist milieu, but he does appear to be endowed with a rather thick teflon coating to protect him from collateral damage.

    30. Stuart MacKay says:

      I see ownership of OneWeb has now been transferred to the UK Government and Bharti Global Ltd. OneWeb is the company that went bankrupt trying to build a network of low earth orbit satellites for internet access. The UK, with crack advisors they have, thought it might be a cheap (500 million) replacement for a global GPS network after the UK got booted out of military access to the EU’s Galileo program.

      Completing the network and wasting more money trying to upgrade the network to provide GPS is likely going to eat all and more of the billions made available for the defence budget.

      I wonder what our share of the bill will be.

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      Well the usual Lillian Gish is now emanating from Downing street and conveyed to our eyes and ears North of the border by the British nationalist media, that Johnson’s devolution comments was reported on wrongly or it was taken out of context etc, etc, etc.

      However many times has a British PM, or Westminster politician said something very distasteful about Scots or Scotland and then at a later date claimed the above.

    32. Hatuey says:

      “Scottish Tory MSP, Murdo Fraser, who sits on the committee said Swinney’s refusal was “yet further confirmation that the SNP Government are doing everything they can to shut down this inquiry.””

      That probably is the intention. We can only guess what the truth is if they’d rather be accused of scuppering the inquiry than be forced to face that truth. So let’s have a guess…

      It was probably about 2 months ago that I said the sequencing of events was the key to understanding all this. We’ve had a lot of people talking about sequencing and timelines since then. I don’t think anyone has come close, though.

      The obvious place to start, I’d say, would be with the dismal election results of 2017 and criticism of the campaign that rightfully and inevitably followed. It was a terrible campaign.

      Arguments and disagreements aren’t always amicably resolved – this is Holyrood not Hollywood – and often result in one party or another walking away angry, muttering familiar and age-old refrains: “I’ll show that bastard…”

      Maybe thats all the timeline we need.

    33. Dan says:

      @ ROS

      More on that devolution gaff remark from a couple of days ago.

    34. auld highlander says:

      Doris about to bomb us with vaccine but where was it tested and how reliable was the testing. Has the testing data been distorted by the testing companies? They don’t care as long as they pocket the cash. Here today gone tomorrow outfits.

      Inoculate the pensioners first to see if it works and if it doesn’t work so what. They were in the departure lounge already and if they snuff it just blame it on their underlying conditions like heart problems, diabetes or whatever ails them.

      Why are they not starting with fit young people first to see if it really works?

      Nah, it’s not for me as a wee birdie told me that they would administer it but not take it themselves and that was enough for me.

    35. North chiel says:

      “ Willie says @ 0911 a.m.” . Not so sure that the Tory plan is to abolish Holyrood . ( They are too sleekit & fly for that) . Much more likely to seriously degrade and weaken the institution . ( as per the internal market bill and powergrab . ). Thereafter the UK “ government in Scotland” will become the “ major player” in both the financial and propaganda war against the “ substantially weakened “Scottish government “ . Eventually , the “ body” of the Scottish government will be stripped of dignity , “ starved” of funding and isolated but kept alive but reduced to feeding of “ scraps” tossed down from the “ Tory feasting Junta” , who will continue to “strangle Scotland’s neck “ whilst ensuring our country’s assets are “stripped bare”.
      As I see it , the only way of saving our country is for the May 2021 election to be a “ referendum on Independence” . We are “running out of time “ folks.” Welcome to your gory bed chains & slavery” ?

    36. Stuart MacKay says:


      That was an excellent read. Hard hitting without either hype or being incendiary. Also the “must read” link in the article about the Biden campaign is very good, as, when you take the two articles together there are a lot of lessons for May 2021.

      If there’s another presidential style election in May and we’re still in lock-down in one form or another in February you can expect a lot of trouble for the SNP. Though as McAlpine says, the position we’re in right now is not that bad.

    37. Stuart MacKay says:


      A gem of an article:

      As for Scotland, we are where we are but I regret that we spent at least two years after 2016 trying to save England from itself. We should have said “ok, we’ll back your withdrawal Bill. In return, give us unconditional and non-negotiable powers over a second and subsequent plebiscite”. I honestly believe that Johnson’s remarks suggest they would have gone for that.

      Well, well, well. The Rev. got dragged over hot coals for saying the same. I guess time will tell.

    38. Bob Mack says:


      The more I read the more it appears blindfolds are dropping from eyes. The Rev was way ahead of the pack.

      I reckon by next year(sadly may be too late), many more will see the true state of play ‘re Independence and the utter lack of movement towards it.

      The Rev is outspoken ,often controversial and bruising, but seldom wrong in his analysis of the political scene.

    39. Fireproofjim says:

      Auld highlander
      You write deplorable rubbish. The vaccines or vaccines will have unprecedented levels of testing.
      All over the world hundreds of thousands of volunteers, both young and old have tested it and there have been NO side effects other than what has been expected such as minor headaches in a tiny minority of cases.
      You may be scared to take it for your own odd paranoid reasons but I am 82 and will be first in the line after the NHS and careers.Great. Back to normal.

    40. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Swinney’s behaviour is extraordinary.

      Why is he doing it?

      We know bits and bobs but how much has yet to be connected?

      Rev has previously highlighted the documentary work of Campbell Martin and it’s been re-linked btl here a good few times.

      But many will have missed it, so here it is again – this is Part Two of ‘The Only Game In Town’, a documentary about PPI-related dodginess in North Ayrshire.

      Even if you don’t have time to watch this, and the equally eye-opening Part One, please just check who pops up at the 29min mark.

    41. John Jones says:

      Just watched Max Keiser on RT. With the prat in the hat spouting the most awful lot of rubbish.
      He’s going to stand in the bye election in Hamilton west when the sitting MP is,according to him, will be unseated by the opposition parties calling for a recall petition.
      He is going to be elected and unite all the opposition MPs to beat the SNP.
      While I would like to see the SNP get a kicking to bring them to their senses, I certainly don’t want the slimey, (learn a lot of big words to look clever) Galloway back anywhere near our lovely country. Dundee had a great sigh of relief when he moved down south with his latest wife. Though he did say that the constituency was only an hour from his house! Fast plane from London?
      The eloclution lessons certainly made a difference, though not necessarily for the better.
      I would love to see him up here trying to canvass, we could have a really good laugh at his antics.

    42. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Auld highlander
      Take the vaccine. I will. This is a public health emergency. Unfortunately the FM has played the game well. Why?. She has politicised it from day one. Hoping to gain advantage. The vaccine rescues us from the madness. We have all got to die sometime. Glasgow should have been shutdown weeks ago.

    43. Sarah says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood: the police spend 2 years trying, and failing, to find that Alex Salmond committed a crime but decided after 2 weeks that there was nothing wrong with N Ayrshire Council giving a building contract to a shelf company?

      I’d like to say that is unbelievable…

    44. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @2.24pm.

      Thanks Dan for the link, it just cements the idea that Johnson wants to roll back on devolution, and he will if given the chance, beginning next year.

      Chomsky said if you want to remove a department institution etc, first you demonise it then defund it, the demonisation of devolution has begun. The Internal Market bill will start the process, and the Hub will like a Blackhole circling a star, syphon off powers from our parliament until it is unable to function properly.

      However we needn’t worry about it, Blackford will stand up in the HoC and bellow out loud that Scotland won’t stand for it, just like he did when Johnson ripped us out of the EU.

    45. Dan says:

      @ Stuart MacKay & Bob Mack

      Aye, taking flack is one aspect of the package when one is a prescient demagogue.

      Meanwhile, I see HYUFD is still writing the OIAG speeches for Alister “Union” Jack as STV troll away.

      I’ll counter any imminent OIAG pish with this from Ruth.

    46. Hatuey says:

      That’s right, tannadice – “Glasgow should have been shutdown weeks ago.”

      The current lockdown is fake though. As long as schools are open, it’s just going to spread, as sure as winter follows autumn.

      It won’t be long before the WHO or someone pronounces on the negative role of schools and we see them all backtracking again. Then they’ll pretend they were against schools opening all along and mutter about Westminster controlling the purse strings.

      All animosities aside, politicising coronavirus is plumbing the depths of desperation. But even that doesn’t explain it adequately. It’s really about Nicola, not politics per se.

    47. Tannadice Boy says:

      My background is engineering so I cant comment on the so called science. But nobody will convince me the pandemic has not been politicised. Aberdeen and the Borders were hammered. Glasgow with very high numbers allowed to continue unabated
      Anyway I am in a good mood. Got out of jail today. United scraped a victory. Getting more confidant they can stay up.

    48. Andy Ellis says:


      I’m not sure it’s right to say the virus can’t be contained if schools are open. It can’t be beyond the ken of man to design and implement a coherent combination of a “proper” track and trace system with effective regional lock downs which would lead to an R of <1 and allow schools and unis to remain open.

      The real problem is that we don't have (either in Scotland or the rest of the UK) a government capable of coming up with that combination. They've never had a handle on this situation from the get go, so it is pointless to expect them to do it now.

      For all the "follow the science" rhetoric, it's abundantly clear that the economy matters more than saving lives.

    49. Effijy says:

      So at the Con men’s Conference for North of North England
      Dross demands Scotland’s budget must be handed over straight
      to Scotland’s Councils?

      So the idea is for Westminster to take away local devolved powers
      but Holyrood but give away powers to local councils?

      So our parliament must receive fewer powers and then give more away.

      That on top of the STV voting system that is only fit for us, should just
      about guarantee the Edinburgh Government we want wont be able to
      do anything about anything.

      Maybe SNP should agree to this Tory plan and pass on the £2.5 Billion of
      Cuts Westminster has made since they came to power.

      Why don’t SNP ask the Tory/Labour Councils if they want to revive the full
      extent of the Tory cuts applied retrospectively to their budgets.

      What the Tories are getting away with is just mind numbing.

    50. Tannadice Boy says:

      My comment is awaiting moderation. Sorry Stu didn’t mean to offend. Was it United staying up? Or something about the handling of a pandemic? I will be taking the vaccine I hope you will as well?

    51. Dan says:

      Sandy’s spotted the elephant in the room…

    52. Effijy says:

      Vaccine, Vaccine, Vaccine, Vaccine
      I’m begging of you please don’t take my man
      Vaccine, Vaccine, Vaccine, Vaccine

      Please don’t inject me ‘cause you can
      Your Boris is beyond compare
      With flaming locks of uncombed hair
      With thickest skin and head to match
      Your greed is like a coiled spring
      Your voice is like a gurgling drain
      And You won’t be injecting me Vaccine

      He talks about Scotland in his sleep
      And there’s nothing he can do to keep
      From lying when he calls our name
      Obscene Obscene Obscene Obscene

    53. Effijy says:

      Tory Celebration of doing a trade deal with Canada.

      That must have been so very difficult as we already had
      one that was negotiated over a 7 year period with the UK
      and 27 other EU nations?

      Now if you were Canada, would you give the 28 nations making up
      the biggest trading block on the planet a deal better than a one
      Nation deal to a country lead by a lying buffoon who is happy to
      Break international law in breaking signed trade deals?

      Could someone help Dross understand this with coloured crayons?

    54. Tannadice Boy says:

      Now I know you are trolling. The vaccine is about Scottish public health. Nothing about Boris. I look to my Parliament first. And if they say the vaccine is safe then I will take it. But lets face it, work needs to be done on the Scottish Parliament.
      I can’t believe the shenanigans of Swinney. Refusing access to witnesses etc.

    55. Cenchos says:

      Officials ‘blocked access to witness’ in Priti Patel inquiry. It’s in the playbook by the looks.

    56. yesbot says:

      You are all talking about schools:
      Glasgow has around 60,000 student population. GU alone has approx 32,000. Professor Sir Anton Muscatelli et al totally encouraged to students to return – to participate remotely – despite calls from student unions and teaching staff… Disgraceful.

      They were also disgracefully remiss in addressing any of the concerns of the local community.

      Students, not even attending lectures holed up in HMO’s, obviously parties and mingling continued, hence level 4?

      No masks, no common sense. Absolutely they are visiting outwith the “family group”.

      This was so avoidable. I wonder how these recent restrictions will be enforced?

    57. crazycat says:

      @ John Jones at 4.19

      It appears that Gorgeous George is decamping to the Borders (chosen while he was still in Alliance4Whatever-it’s-called, presumably), which is about an hour’s drive from Rutherglen:

    58. Dan says:

      Cheers to all those supposedly Pro-Indy folk that just couldn’t be arsed voting in the “wee” council elections.
      Time y’all woke the fuck up and realised that EVERY single time you are offered the opportunity to vote you should get off yer arse and take it.
      Because if you don’t, we just cede the power to those we are opposed to, and hand them the tactical advantage in broadening the scope of their options to maintain control over us.

    59. Tannadice Boy says:

      Agreed. Nothing more to be said except my constituency vote is going a begging in May. I can’t vote for the SNP. Some random Indy party will get my second vote. But at the moment nobody is getting my first vote. 6 months to go and nobody to vote for!

    60. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Roaster Galloway

      So he’ll be breaking the law in England then.The have full lockdown.Stay in the hoose, no non essential travelling.

      That man is dumb as fuck

    61. Ottomanboi says:

      SAFE…the covidista word meaning restriction, suppression, oppression and the removal, by government and its globalist mentors, of basic freedoms and democratic rights.
      How easy it for totalitarian authoritarians to fuck up your life.
      Don’t be MUZZLED!

    62. Hatuey says:

      You misunderstand me, Andy. I’m not saying the virus can’t be contained if schools remain open. I’m saying, ceteris paribus, in Scotland, the virus can’t be contained as long as schools are open.

      I hate to keep using Singapore as an example but they have a population of almost identical size to us. Their population is also more densely packed and they were right at the epicenter of the outbreak with virtually no time to prepare.

      The last time I looked, Singapore had a net Coronavirus death-toll of 28. Scotland, as you will know, based on ONS figures, has recorded about Coronavirus 5000 deaths.

      There’s no excuse for that difference. It’s quite remarkable to me that nobody even attempts to explain why we had thousands of deaths and a country like Singapore had under thirty.

      So, it is possible to keep schools open, if, as you suggest, other stuff is done well. But it isn’t.

      How anybody can come on here and argue that Sturgeon has handled this well is shocking, as if the avoidable deaths of around 5000 Scottish people means nothing.

      I don’t subscribe to the view that the lives of old people are somehow of less value either – that’s really dangerous talk. We shouldn’t be asked to weigh up the value of human life like that because the government is incompetent.

    63. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


      Naw, stay in hoose,save lives and fuck your libbèeeerty shite.

    64. Dan says:

      @ Tannadice Boy

      The last council elections (ignoring by-elections) were in 2017, a year after the 2016 EU vote, and before all the current shite that has tainted folk’s views.
      If ever there was a time for Pro-Indy folk to be motivated and keep the pressure on then that was it.
      The material change of circumstances was in the bag.

    65. Hatuey says:

      Dan, I don’t understand the point you’re making. Are you suggesting Boris wouldn’t or couldn’t do this if more indy supporters voted in local elections?

      If so, that’s quite a leap.

    66. Tannadice Boy says:

      Sorry I can’t vote for the SNP at the moment. Perhaps you have not read their policies.

    67. Hatuey says:

      What’s Nicola doing to oppose this, Dan? Waiting on a Section 30? Ah okay. In other words, fuck all.

      Let’s blame the victims though, that’ll work, just as it worked with Coronavirus, etc.

    68. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


      Mibbie what Dan alludes to is if you’re not in the game you can’t win the game It’s called a walk over. Obstufication ,sabotage, downright wankerisim – see Aberdeen council for reference.


    69. Andy Ellis says:


      We are in violent agreement it appears. How refreshing. 🙂

    70. Dan says:

      @ Hatuey @ Tannadice Boy

      Interesting responses from you both, just where the fuck did I tell you to vote SNP in the future?
      I was highlighting the now past importance of turning out to vote as the councils are so finely balanced as to whether they’re Pro-Indy or Pro-Union controlled.
      That may be a considered factor as to bypassing Pro-Indy run Holyrood, plus there’s the small point that local councils run elections which has the potential to be a spanner in the works.

      I’ve stated plenty times my dissatisfaction with the SNP. Unlike others that have fucked off and ceded the ability to route the current NEC, I’ll stay another week and as a delegate try to influence for change. I’ve stated before it is a watershed moment because if the current cabal retain power I would expect to see some kind of split.

    71. Willie says:

      North Chiel. Yes absolutely correct. The Tories will not abish Holywood straight off the bat. They’ll just starve it of money, run an alternative UK government in Scotland and render the SP powerless through the Internal Market Bill.

      And the SNP leadership – woke will like Brexit, just accept.

    72. Tannadice Boy says:

      Contain your anger. The SNP are the Scottish Government. Although these days the management are interchangeable. We fu##off for a reason. Local Government? I can’t think of a previous occasion when Scotland has had a more centralised Government. Ask Orkney, Shetland and the Highlands et al. In these circumstances I set no stock in local Government. The change has to come at SG level.

    73. Effijy says:

      Tannadice Boy.

      Trolling? We all have a choice to make and mine
      Is based on the consistent bad advice regarding the
      Virus from scientists and politicians in particular.

      If all drugs previously were required to be tested for a
      minimum 2 years, why should this one be free to take
      a short cut?

      I mentioned before the laughable test results that each vaccine
      Proclaimed says it has a slightly higher success rate than the
      Previous one. To expose this Pfizer who were first claimed 90%
      and after that was beaten again and again by others, their re run
      Tests now just beats all the others?

      Remember Thalidomide and Female Mesh Implants as medical claims
      Of excellence?

      I do want you to take the vaccine and I do wish you well, but if you
      Disappear, I’m not going to.

      Kind regards!

    74. Hatuey says:

      “I was highlighting the now past importance of turning out to vote as the councils are so finely balanced as to whether they’re Pro-Indy or Pro-Union controlled.”

      It amounts to the same thing, Dan, and my response remains the same. It’s victim blaming.

      The suggestion that we might watch Boris dismantle Holyrood as Sturgeon watches and does nothing, and then blame those who didn’t vote in Council elections so many years ago, is a psychedelic absurdity.

    75. Tannadice Boy says:

      Fine we all have a choice to make. I should have died 3 times in my life already. I guess life experience has a part to play in my decision. Not everybody has courage I get that. My children and grandchildren will take it if offered. Chips off the old block.

    76. Dan says:

      @ Tannadice Boy

      Not angry, merely motivated. How do you expect the change to come at SG level if you don’t get involved in influencing it during its formation stages, much of which has already been determined through the recent MSP candidate selection process, and upcoming conference voting for NEC positions.
      You may choose to utilise the Uri Geller approach of just staring from the sidelines willing change, but I choose to actively chip in with the process as and when I have time.
      I can sit back knowing that my past efforts over the years may have at least played their small part in getting one decent new Pro-Indy candidate selected and hopefully on their way to Holyrood.

    77. Tannadice Boy says:

      Change at the SG/SNP level is all that is needed. Please! Don’t question our contribution to the cause. We are talking decades not years. To me you are a Johnny come lately. However let’s stay on the same side. I think that’s the second time I have asked you to do that.

    78. Fireproofjim says:

      The Thalidomide tragedy which you keep mentioning, was over fifty years ago. Lessons were learned and things have changed. Testing is much more comprehensive and viruses are pretty well understood now.
      Hence the annual new flu vaccine which successfully combats the evolution of the flu flu virus. Do you take that? If not why not? It is new every year but has never had any ill effects.
      As far as I am concerned, I trust the medical science and am looking forward to getting the vaccine and resuming normality.

    79. Bob Mack says:


      I’m taking it. I’ll let you know if I grow two heads or my wife will post my departing.

      I had volunteered to be a vaccine guinea pig in any event,so nothing lost.

    80. Dan says:

      Tannadice Boy says: at 8:32 pm

      However let’s stay on the same side. I think that’s the second time I have asked you to do that.

      Well if I’m gonnae get scolded and sent to bed early… jist so a ken, was the first time the other night when I’d have to pay you 500 quid before you’d interact and share your knowledge with an idiot, aye? 🙂

    81. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      All politics is local.It starts at local level and if you don’t vote for who you want as our local councillor, msp,mp to represent your views, then how do you expect to have influence at national level?

      If you don’t control the local level then your unlikely to have power at national level. What those at national level do with that power is where the issue is.
      A local tory councillor is unlikely to push any agenda that I would agree with.Thus, if I don’t vote him/her out then how would that benefit me leaving them there?

    82. robert graham says:

      It’s amazing how they can train Pigs to walk and talk isn’t it , Dross being a fine example of this training I guess that’s what his wife was attracted to then again looking at a photo of her it is a perfect match ( oops naughty comment ) .

      A few comments about this wonderful Vaccine , take a minute and check out Pfizers Checkered history particularly their repeated controversial use of test and side effects data ,the same applies to all these types of companies secrecy bad results are carefully and sometimes criminally hidden

      These Drug companies have applied for and have been granted immunity from prosecution over any side effects that the patents or test subjects ( US ) all of us might suffer , law suits have become so widespread in the USA that most of them have applied for federal protection against further claims , any new cases are referred to the Federal Government in the USA and Surprise Surprise the Federal government can’t be sued now isn’t that comforting eh .

      Take their speed of light tested cocktail of who knows what it contains or what long term effects that are and are presently unknown ( corporate confidentiality comes into play here ) Union Carbide , Dow Chemicals , DuPont , every Oil Company has caused death and destruction all over the planet protected by a corrupt legal system and now we’re invited to TRUST them Aye fkn right

    83. Tannadice Boy says:

      Sense of humour love it! We are on the same side I can’t impart a lifetime of knowledge in a few paragraphs. BTW because of the pandemic my rates have gone up. 750 ye know.

    84. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      And if you don’t agree with above then here’s an example.

      Man, currently in power at national level.While his country falls apart an fractured from within with corona running wild and one half of population against other he goes and plays golf! From what I’ve seen of his golf swing,he’s pretty shit at that too.Much as the country he’s supposed to be running. Sighs

    85. Andy Ellis says:


      You know, we hear this line from party members – often times those who profess to be disillusioned – a whole lot, but it get’s no more convincing. As a former Edinburgh Central member I’ve watched the whole sorry process of selecting a prospective MSP with interest….well, more horror if I’m honest.

      The thing about witnessing the whole bourach from the outside was that it seemed pretty symptomatic of the SNP’s approach to government in general, and the contempt the party leadership exhibits toward rank and file membership. We can hardly expect the party to govern the country effectively, still less achieve independence, if they contrive to throw away their chance of winning what ought to have been one of their highest priority and highest profile targets.

      Many former members and supporters like me are in a fairly invidious position: no longer feeling able to support the party, but having little real alternative. I’ll probably vote ISP on the list, but given the shoddy way my former branch treated Joanna Cherry I can’t bring myself to vote for them here.

      How is it you think pro-indy people who aren’t in the party and are disgusted with its current leadership, are meant to exert influence exactly Dan? I’m glad you feel your efforts have been rewarded and you’ve helped get someone you approve of into power, but the way I feel right now, I’d actively campaign to stop some of the individuals involved in the SNP gain office.

    86. Dan says:

      @ Tannadice Boy

      750? That’s just pure exploitation in these times of exacerbated austerity.
      But saying that, I got a deal myself the other day. A prostitute told me they’d do anything for 50 quid, so I’ve got them to do the dual mass flywheel and clutch on my Mondeo next week… Totes deal! 🙂

    87. Tannadice Boy says:


    88. Tannadice Boy says:

      Last smiley came out as a question mark. I guess I have never mastered computers. Fly wheels are hopeless BTW. Golden rule of engineering cut down on moving parts. They break down.

    89. Bob Mack says:

      Just for info.

      There is very little in a vaccine that can go wrong, unlike newly created medicines. Vaccines have common component parts apart from the “soup” of the virus being inoculated against.

      The hard part is getting that dosage right in order your T Cells to be able to overcome the virus and produce antibodies.

    90. Derek says:


      “21 November, 2020 at 9:12 am
      Note Bojo doesn’t understand ballistics. A bomb dropped from a plance retains the forwards momentum of the plane, the curve of it’s fall is thus forward, not backwards”

      To my understanding, an object dropped from an aeroplane travelling at a constant velocity will accelerate due to gravity in a downwards direction, but decelerate in the direction of the aeroplane’s travel due to air resistance (as it’s no longer being pushed along by the aeroplane’s engines). As the acceleration downwards is constant until a terminal velocity is reached, the velocity increases by 10m/sec/sec until then; the rate of forward velocity decreases by a constant amount per second.

      The drawing’s roughly right, but not curved enough.

      If its fall was forwards, it would be accelerating with regard to the aeroplane’s forward travel and you’d’ve discovered the secret of free energy….

    91. Dan says:

      Last post from me tonight as acutely aware of my multiple posts this evening.

      @ Andy Ellis

      FYI I still happen to be a member at the moment but in no way am I a loyalist or ultra. The result of conference, as I’ve eluded to previously, will be pivotal for me.
      I only dip in and out of membership as and when required as there are data protection implications for when out campaigning and on election day roles. Normal times I am just YES aligned.
      I’ve witnessed and agree with much of what you state having been pretty committed in terms of effort and time given to the party at certain points in the past.
      You observe things when that closely involved, and for me I make a judgement call that on balance, at times, it serves the YES cause better for me to be a SNP member.
      I would imagine this is a very area specific call and can understand other folk will see things differently from their own perspective and local experiences in the party.

      Fortunately in my area there was a chink of opportunity to influence change, and with there already being concerted YES activities in the area to raise awareness, I hope that was a factor in the SNP membership being awake and voting through the selection of a good candidate.
      I’ve read your posts over time and can see that in your area it was pretty clear you weren’t afforded that choice.

    92. Andy Ellis says:


      Yeah, I think you’re probably right about it being area specific. Having joined the party when I still lived in England in 2015 after never being involved in any party previously, I was looking forward to becoming involved when I moved home in 2018. It wasn’t long before the scales fell from my eyes after being back.

      I only got a chance to attend a few events locally and there were some decent sorts there, but the more I’ve seen and heard of the branch since the more convinced I am I was right to leave, even tho’ the proximate cause was outrage at the defenestration of Grouse Beater rather than other issues which have since gained prominence.

      I’m sure some of the rank and file members must be heart sick at what is going on, but there’s no way I could see myself campaigning shoulder to shoulder with some of the individuals in the branch from what i’ve seen and heard of their views on GRA, TRA extremism etc, and their failure to advance the case for #indyref2.

      I read Robin McAlpine’s piece today and have to say I think he nailed it. If only we had more people like him guiding the party rather than the deplorable basket of moral cowards, grey suited gradualist nonentities, sophomoric woke beards and Sturgeon fan-boys we have at present.

    93. A Person says:

      I read MacAlpine’s piece and I agree with every word of it. I know everybody hears what they want to hear, but I am consistently hearing a great deal of resentment of Sturgeon expressed by the man and the woman in the street. I am not convinced she is as popular as we are told she is. As MacAlpine writes, the SNP have pursued middle class liberals at the expense of their working-class base; look where that got NS’s hero Hillary Clinton.

    94. Tannadice Boy says:

      @A Person
      The SNP have always polled higher than there actual vote. I was ridiculed on here by talking about my extended ex SNP family. Anecdotal evidence was the reply. We will see. When hard core SNP supporters say no more then you can believe that they mean it. Sturgeon here today gone tomorrow and hopefully she takes all the pervy enterist crew with her.

    95. Graf Midgehunter says:


      Dan says yesterday:

      @ lumilumi (and Graf Midgehunter if reading in)

      “As you are both outwith Scotland, can I ask if where you live have decent plastic recycling / reprocessing initiatives in place?
      I feel like we are in the dark ages over here with the amount of plastic I see going to landfill.
      Emulating an existing policy that works elsewhere would be a good plan for any budding political party.”

      Hi Dan, pologies for not answering earlier, just catching up now. All work and no play..!

      Yes we do have a fairly efficient sytem over here.
      We have yellow bins or sacks for anything made of plastic or foam. They’re emptied twice a month.

      Bottles and cans have had a seperate system for about 20 years using deposits when returned, works pretty good as well.

      The green bins are for paper.
      Brown bins for garden/kitchen food rest.
      Black bins for anything which can’t be recycled, glass, lamps, ceramics, building materials. Every household gets a plan for the year in advance.

      Toxic stuff, paint, oils, etc can be taken to a special pick-up lorry every quarter.

      Every town, village etc. has its local recycling yard with large skips for all of the above + skips for metals, tyres, batteries and small electro stuff, toasters, TVs, computers, printers, cables etc. Open 3 days a week.

      Bulky household rubbish, beds, mattresses, wardrobes, glass tables etc. are picked up once a month. Put them out on the pavement the evening before and “magic” the next day they’ve gone..! It’s all in the yearly plan from your local authorities. 🙂

      Want to know why driving without car insurance in Germany is almost unknown?

      Having to register to vote, none of that malarky over here. It’s all done automatically.

      The covid 19 vaccine distribution plans have already been made, 60 main immunisation centres + mobile teams for those who can’t get there such as care homes, bedridden at home etc.

      🙂 🙂

    96. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Some readers, like me, probably go straight to the latest article here, so they may have missed this, posted on the previous thread earlier tonight:

      Lorna Campbell says:
      21 November, 2020 at 8:30 pm
      Scotsrenewables: yes, I was out of order in calling you stupid, but I was not virtue signalling. I do not see myself as a victim. I am very angry that it is so often women themselves who have pushed this stuff. Queueing for toilets is a very serious issue if you have problems.

      The point I was trying to make is that women already have problems in gaining quick access to toilets, many of which have disappeared from the pubic domain. We need our own spaces where we can change menstrual pads or incontinence pads without fear that a bloke in a frock is in the vicinity. I don’t believe that men want to poo in public, so they have cubicles for that. Well, women need a cubicle for more than just peeing in.

      It’s not so much fear of attack – although that is always at the back of our minds when we are vulnerable – but the need to have our dignity and privacy. You say that it will not be many trans women in our spaces, but even a few will make a difference, put a strain on our facilities. We are talking here about men who say they are women. If you cannot see how that is challenging, there’s no help for you. How can a woman or a child tell if a man is a trans woman or just a man?

      As for trying to put anyone off the SNP, mate, I was pounding pavements and chapping doors from the age of 13. I want independence. What I do not want is to live in an independent Scotland that is going to take all my hard-won rights away from me just as we reach our goal. You are asking me and every other woman to sacrifice everything our forbears fought for so that we can have an independent Scotland that eliminates us from the equation. You really believe we should be required to do that?

      It is not being childish to stand up for your rights; it is not being childish to state that reducing the issue to a question of toilet access is crass and stupid because toilet access is also a fundamental right in a civilized society. Nobody mentioned queueing behind hairy men, but, logistically, if you add to a number that has been worked out to afford a steady use of facilities to each sex, by increasing the use of women’s toilets (trans men would use the cubicles in men’s toilets) that will impact on the access of that facility for women. That is logical. The same goes for medical facilities, beds in female wards. The implications have simply not been worked out.

      No doubt trans women have been using women’s toilets, but the GRA reform will open up ALL female spaces to ANY man who says he is a woman. That is a massive change to the law and breaches existing law. No, I will not apologize for what I said. Being a woman, I think I know better than you do about women’s problems, women’s toilet facilities and lack of them, etc., you patronizing person. I think I also know better than a man who says he is a woman. Oh, and I know about cancer, too, and its side effects – personally – and the last thing I would wish for is your, or anyone’s, pity or even sympathy, so park it where the sun don’t shine. I was not lecturing. I was explaining from a female perspective, or are you taking possession of female experience, as well?

    97. cynicalHighlander says:

      Thanks for that Ian Brotherhood and I concur even though I am a male, well said Lorna.

    98. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Campbell Martin:

      ‘In addition to the new ‘gradualists’ down-playing independence, and putting the boot into ‘fundamentalists’ and the left, today’s SNP also has to contend with the possibility that some around the Sturgeon leadership may have colluded to try and jail former SNP leader, Alex Salmond. Serious charges relating to sexual offences were presented against Salmond, but a jury at Scotland’s High Court in Edinburgh listened to the evidence and acquitted him of all charges. Still, though, concerns remain that some senior SNP members might have played a part in trying to jail Salmond.

      Information that could split the SNP wide-open may emerge as a Scottish Parliament Inquiry into the Scottish Government’s handling of actions against Alex Salmond takes its course.

      However, much of this has played-out below the general public’s radar, which is why we have the apparent enigma of soaring support for a popular First Minister, her party and independence, while criticism is levelled by those in the SNP and wider movement who are aware of what is happening.’

    99. A Person says:


      That is what I am experiencing too, interesting times…

    100. Iain More says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      21 November, 2020 at 6:45 pm

      Agreed. Nothing more to be said except my constituency vote is going a begging in May. I can’t vote for the SNP. Some random Indy party will get my second vote. But at the moment nobody is getting my first vote. 6 months to go and nobody to vote for!”

      I am also in that very dark place and my bitterness and anger towards the SNP and its present leadership and most of its elected reps knows no limits right now.

    101. Hatuey says:

      It’s my expectation that all of this talk about how people intend to vote in May is premature and will change when Sturgeon steps aside.

      Party loyalists who would normally be willing to overlook most shortcomings are starting to realise that the leadership itself might be a huge liability going into the election. And, crucially, they seem to be moving beyond blaming others.

      There’s a groundswell, like an intifada. The leadership’s position is untenable and irretrievable. And I sense that we might not need to wait until the Inquiry concludes. I get the impression that most people have seen enough.

      Even if it’s left to January, there’s enough time to change course and avoid the disaster that lies ahead. The new leadership team would need to hit the ground running and come up with new priorities and a manifesto, but that’s easily achievable.

      The choice facing the SNP, its members, and the wider independence movement couldn’t be clearer. Do we want more of the same lie-down-and-die crap or do we want a chance to get out of Brexit Britain and create a country worth living in?

      It’s probably the last time the people of Scotland will ever have that sort of choice.

    102. susanXX says:

      Well said Hatuey@2:36am.

    103. A Person says:


      I am sadly unconvinced that the SNP will go into the election with a different leader. The average voter doesn’t know much about all the skulduggery going on in the SG. She will be able to brazen it out, then when it comes to the election the unionists will throw the kitchen sink at her. Please remember, it is not particularly difficult for them to deprive the SNP and Greens of a majority.

      I know Rev Stu feels that Sturgeon will have to resign if she is found to have breached the ministerial code, but there doesn’t seem to be any accountability in politics any more- look at Patel.

    104. McDuff says:

      I agree absolutely.
      But what still puzzles me is why so many SNP MSP/MP’s are so quiet when Sturgeon is so obviously flushing independence down the pan in front of their faces.

    105. Ottomanboi says:

      Who finances the SNP? Plenty of influencers with megabucks in the Great Reset cartel. Sturgeon may well be on Bill Gates and WEF Christmas card list. Neither do ‘nationalism’, and neither paradoxically does Sturgeon. Freedom and sovereignty, none of the above care much for such, as one commenter on here termed, ‘shite’.
      Until Scottish nationalists begin to take ‘freedom’ seriously it will be a prize permanently out of reach. This is a small pond political movement that really needs to ‘grow up fast’.

    106. Breeks says:

      A Person says:
      22 November, 2020 at 3:49 am

      I am sadly unconvinced that the SNP will go into the election with a different leader.

      If she’s still there, she will be a lame duck leader (no change there then), but she’ll have compromised both sides of the division. Those who cannot support her will be incensed at being asked to compromise their moral principles to back a rogue leadership and runaway faction, and those “wheesht for Indy” followers who will follow the cause no matter what will know in their hearts they’ve been duped and blackmailed into an endorsement for a crooked regime. My, my, what a cracking start to any campaign.

      They are also fools to believe Sturgeon will ‘get away with it’. Just remind yourselves of Kirsty Wark and Sarah Smith cackling like witches over the merest opportunity to discredit Alex Salmond, and yet there is barely a murmur in the press about Sturgeons mess and the virtually inevitable conclusion she is up to her neck in this. It isn’t difficult doing the arithmetic. May’s elections will be a reckoning for the SNP, Sturgeon will set back the Indy cause to the pre-Devolution era, and she’ll have presented Westminster with powerful precedent that Westminster can veto Scottish Democracy, and thus Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is badly compromised.

      Sturgeon must resign, but from my perspective, it would be a much stronger outcome for Scotland if she was to be impeached and removed, guilty of assuming the roll of sovereign to overrule the democratic will of Scotland’s sovereign people. She should properly have been thrown out in 2016, but better late than never.

      And for the switherers who cannot decide, let me tell you this. Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is virtually impregnable. Yes, virtually impregnable, not absolutely. It has one existential weakness, and that lies in the perceived abandonment of that sovereignty by the sovereign, or sovereign people themselves.

      That opens a real can of philosophical questions relating to sovereignty, and I’ll explain why. When a King or Queen is monarch through Divine appointment, when they abdicate the throne, they instant they abdicate, sovereignty is removed from their shoulders and passes to the next in line for the throne. It is the office of Monarch which is sovereign, not the person.

      You will all be familiar with the refrain, “The King is dead, long live the King”. That refers to the instantaneous transfer of sovereignty onto it’s heir. You cannot destroy the sovereignty. You can conquer it and become sovereign, but it cannot be destroyed.

      How simple and logical it is when you have only one sovereign to worry about. Here in Scotland, it’s a degree or two more complicated, because since 1320, and recognised since 1328, every person born a Scot has been granted sovereignty as a birthright.

      There is no hereditary nature to our royal lineage. Our Sovereignty is not passed from one person to his heir. Scottish Sovereignty is renewed spontaneously by the creation of a newly born Scottish child.

      Which poses a massive question for us, about the Constitutional ramifications of a sovereign people who endorse a democratic government which is resolved to abdicate Scottish Sovereignty. That is so truly illogical it would keep Mr Spock on Star Trek lying awake at nights. Plain daft it is.

      I’ll take a running jump and try to simplify the answer to that massive question… because Scotland’s sovereign birthright is inviolable. It cannot be removed. Every Scot IS sovereign by birthright. So we’re good right? Wrong.

      It puts us in same position as Scotland after 1320, but before 1328. (It doesn’t, really but humour me and just roll with it for now), – we Scots might well be unequivocally sovereign by rights, but we are not internationally recognised as being sovereign. And in that unhappy scenario, a home grown Scottish Government for Independence which doesn’t even respect it’s own Nation’s Constitutional Sovereignty will be the kiss of death to Scotland’s aspirations of International recognition and thereby Independence. How can we expect ANY nation to recognise Scotland when our government in Edinburgh won’t?

      It is NOT in Westminster’s power to supplant Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. Neither is it in the gift of Holyrood to affect Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. What we have however is a MYTH surrounding Westminster’s Convention of Parliamentary Sovereignty, and a “Scottish” Government which seems determined that the MYTH should remain the ascendant and accepted convention over the lawful, constitutional reality.

      Never mind Sturgeon’s truly dreadful and inept leadership, set aside all the corruption, secrecy and nepotism that’s consuming the soul of the SNP… they are deniers of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and that makes then wholly unelectable to me.

      Don’t get me wrong, I think the SNP has got itself into an indescribable mess, but it’s their stunningly
      inept constitutional failure which buries my vote, and buries it deep, because it renders Holyrood as illegitimate and unqualified to lead Scotland as any Lord or Lady given a seat in the House of Lords.

      No, that doesn’t make me a Tory, Labour Lib Dem, or even make me remotely Unionist, or anti SNP. What it does, is leave me utterly dejected, because NONE of these voting options will do anything to advance the cause of Scotland’s International Recognition and Sovereign Independence. So I would wish a plague on ALL their houses.

      Scotland NEEDS it’s pipes flushed with CONSTITUTIONAL drain cleaner, and nothing truly decisive can happen until it’s done,

    107. Effijy says:

      Anyone else concerned that the number of posts here
      has dropped significantly?

      The Rev holds up mirror with horrible reflections on where we are
      but you cannot move forward unless you know which way you are facing.

      Some may have gone as the picture is to horrible to
      Focus on with so many other worries upon us such as Covid, unemployment,
      restricted liberties, etc.

      We always knew Westminster is a brutal and cunning enemy of Scotland
      and it’s just to much to now see those who were to lead us away from colonialism
      seem so comfortable in it and unwilling to give any sign of resistance.

      I left SNP as their agenda and policies are no longer acceptable
      but I must vote for them as they are supposedly perceived by Westminster
      as being the flagship of independence.

      No one else is available to rally behind and send Boris that message.
      The ISP first vote will register as a sign of a split and failing of the SNP.

      If we gain independence, then many SNP officials must be voted out of office
      at the first opportunity.

      Never give up! We will endure and we will have our day!

    108. Andy Ellis says:


      I think many are relying on the inertia of the lumpen electorate who probably know little and care less about specific issues, but will probably still go out next may and dutifully vote for the SNP. as many others have pointed out, they aren’t doing do because they support GRA, the new Hate Crime Bill, or even because they think Sturgeon and her team are doing a good job generally or specifically WRT to Covid.

      Sturgeonista loyalists and their useful idiots inside the party are adept at caricaturing positive polling numbers as slam dunk evidence the electorate love Sturgeon and are “on their side” on the issues. Of course, the positive numbers are NOT a ringing endorsement of the party and its policies, they are an indictment of the opposition. The logical and obvious response to such misdirection from gradualists inside the party is that we really ought to be much further ahead given the general political environment (especially Brexit and Covid), and the abject nature of the opposition both in Westminster and Holyrood.

      If any further proof were needed that the SNP as currently constituted is not fit for purpose, it is the lack of courage amongst MPs, MSPs, councillors and party activists to stick their heads above the parapet and criticise the gradualist prospectus. With a few honourable exceptions they have totally failed to stand up and be counted. They all bear a heavy responsibility for not reining in roasters like Wishart, Nicholson, Stewart McDonald, Alyn Smyth and their basket of deplorable acolytes.

      We keep hearing that there are individuals who support Plan B, and hate what is happening in the party WRT GRA, Hate Crime Bill, the attempted fit up of Alex Salmond, the gradualism and Growth Commission, but they’re all prioritising “wheesht for indy” and hoping against hope they can wrest control of the party from the gradualists post Holyrood 2021. It’s much more likely of course that they will be even more supine and cowed if the Sturgeonistas are not defeated and rooted out of the party.

      It’s time for those opposed to the current party machine to put up or shut up. They don’t have long, and after next May’s elections they will have nowhere to hide.

      Frankly, from what I’ve seen there’s as much evidence of them being able to face down Sturgeon and her team as there is of Donald Trump providing evidence of voter fraud in the US elections.

    109. Lothianlad says:

      “If we gain independence, then many SNP officials must be voted out of office
      at the first opportunity’.

      Which is exactly why they dont want Independence

    110. winifred mccartney says:

      Lorna Campbell speaks for the vast majority of women – I thank her and believe that trans women have rights but they must not overtake the hard won rights of women.

    111. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      The article, “All the jolly boys and girls.” gets an honourable mention in the latest update of Robin Ramsey’s “View from the bridge” in Lobster.
      Ramsay is a Scot, but as far as I know he has been resident in Hull since the early 70’s. The aspect of the article that peaked his attention was the involvement of the State Department’s, IVLP. Don’t know if Ramsay is aware of Humza Yousaf’s connection. I will drop him a line.

    112. James Barr Gardner says:

      After Independence Scotland will need Ambassadors, many of these will come from the Scottish politicians who have liaised with the Nations of the World.

    113. robertknight says:

      Doris Gym-stain says SNP’s handling of Devolution is “a disaster”.

      Can’t disagree with him, I’m sorry to say.


      1) We should’ve been independent 6 years ago.

      2) Look at the current state of the Scot Gov under Sturgeon.

      3) The country is constantly under attack from Westminster legislation and Holyrood appears unable/unwilling to do anything short of meek complaints. Our Parly and our SNP MPs have no teeth and/or no stomach for a fight! (J Cherry excepted).

      Doris isn’t the only one who needs a re-set…

    114. PacMan says:

      Andy Ellis says:21 November, 2020 at 5:11 pm


      I’m not sure it’s right to say the virus can’t be contained if schools are open. It can’t be beyond the ken of man to design and implement a coherent combination of a “proper” track and trace system with effective regional lock downs which would lead to an R of <1 and allow schools and unis to remain open.

      The real problem is that we don't have (either in Scotland or the rest of the UK) a government capable of coming up with that combination. They've never had a handle on this situation from the get go, so it is pointless to expect them to do it now.

      For all the "follow the science" rhetoric, it's abundantly clear that the economy matters more than saving lives.

      For the track and trace process to be truly effective, the following steps would at least need to be taken:

      * The registration process in public places needs to be fully electronic, which I believe is what it is like down in England.

      * Allow Automatic number plate recognition data to be used to stop travel in events of regional lockdowns.

      * Allow access to every individuals bank accounts to find evidence of breaking travel restrictions i.e. purchases made in different areas, public transport purchases.

      * Even greater penalties for breaking rules including eviction for repeated offences or deterrence like for instance holding large house parties.

      In short, it would need draconian measures that would impact severely on our individual liberties to properly control the virus here. Some people here have problems just putting on a mask so these types of measures would never be tolerated so IMHO, it doesn’t follow that the current response by those in charge are to save the economy at the expense of peoples lives.

    115. PacMan says:

      Andy Ellis says:21 November, 2020 at 5:11 pm

      For the track and trace process to be truly effective, the following steps would at least need to be taken:

      * The registration process in public places needs to be fully electronic, which I believe is what it is like down in England.

      * Allow Automatic number plate recognition data to be used to stop travel in events of regional lockdowns.

      * Allow access to every individuals bank accounts to find evidence of breaking travel restrictions i.e. purchases made in different areas, public transport purchases.

      * Even greater penalties for breaking rules including eviction for repeated offences or deterrence like for instance holding large house parties.

      In short, it would need draconian measures that would impact severely on our individual liberties to properly control the virus here. Some people here have problems just putting on a mask so these types of measures would never be tolerated so IMHO, it doesn’t follow that the current response by those in charge are to save the economy at the expense of peoples lives.

    116. Ron Maclean says:

      She could have made history. Instead she made mistakes, enemies and money. It’s probably too late to make amends. That leaves a gap.

      Who’s going to fill it? New parties are forming but so far there’s nothing to suggest their leaders have learned anything from the errors of the SNP. Surely we can do better than just relying on different people boarding the gravy train by, for instance, exploiting the D’Hondt system and the Regional vote.

      What should be the main aims of the SNP have not changed. For example its constitution prioritises independence for Scotland and it still has removal of WMDs from Scotland as a policy. I have lost confidence in the party because of its bizarre preferences and leadership failure but that is repairable by the right people, if they exist. First the current leadership team must go or be removed.

      The SNP, for the moment, remain our main hope for independence but is it really achievable by a party tainted by accusations of malicious misconduct, improbity, incompetence, lassitude and inaction? No-one with the power or inclination to effect change has come forward, no-one has spoken out and no-one has challenged the leadership. Perhaps because there is no-one with the fortitude, integrity, determination and toughness to lead the party’s recovery.

      I don’t want to see progress towards an independent Scotland if it might be governed by people who neither understand nor practise the concepts of truth, integrity, honesty and justice.

      More than three hundred years of Union should have taught us that there’s nothing less impressive than Scots on the make

    117. Footsoldier says:

      With the polls at the highest ever, I have never felt more despondent about independence. Even if Nicola is able to deliver indyref2, we are ill prepared and supporters are demoralised given the last few years to build our army, tactics and strategy have been completely wasted and long before Covid came along and still no answers to critical questions.

      Already we are on the defensive answering Unionist taunts and they have barely got going whereas they should be on the defensive to our attacks – attacks? What attacks? “Savaged by a dead sheep” comes to mind.

      Much as I want indyref2, especially given my seniority, I feel it has to be put on hold until we are ready – which we are not. Sure if the starting gun is fired there will be instant enthusiasm but that will not overcome the Unionist onslaught.

      Strategy is all important and maximising our vote next May is the critical factor which means keeping internal strife at a minimum until the election is over. We then have to have a clear out of the SNP and re-build the party and our independence strategy and if we do well in the electionms it will be from a strong platform.

      If we allow internal strife to break out before next May, there can only be disadvantage as the strong platform to re-build will be considerably weakened.

    118. Grouse Beater says:

      You got Douglass4Duff’s ears and no neck spot on, Chris!! But what a disaster SNP Gradualists have got us into. How depressing.

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘SNP: Right or Left’:

    119. robert graham says:

      Dross and his unchallenged political broadcast on of course BBC Scotland , straight faced question on him being First Minister no wonder the arse wipe laughed he was at great pains to say how Bawjaws supported Devolution oh another round of hysterical Laughter , if the presenter Kerr remember him from the French gate affair if he wasn’t so much of a dyed in the wool Unionist he might have questioned the whole Tory approach to any kind of Devolved Government that posed a threat to their revered Westminster,
      The Tory party never wanted any kind of devolution they fought tooth and bloody nail against it even now some of their MSPs don’t recognise it
      A few wee hurdles for Dross to traverse before his dream of being First Minister happens , I believe he will have to be elected to the Holyrood Parliament as a MSP , his party will then have to convince the Scottish electorate to forget the almighty balls up their Tory Government have made of running the country , every single thing they have been involved in has failed and failed spectacularly the money this lot have wasted or given to their pals will be incalculable because it’s in some account in the Cayman Islands so can’t be discovered,

      The very best of luck yah pig faced liar son Brass Necked till the end a stain on Humanity that we haven’t voted for since the 1950s they haven’t changed they are still Lying shit faced tossers

    120. Republicofscotland says:

      So Auld Queen Lizzie had a plan to thwart Scottish independence if we voted yes in 2014.

      “As the Scottish National Party, under the leadership of Alex Salmond at the time, prepared its bid to break away from the Union in a 2014 vote, the Queen is said to have prepared an intervention. Lionel Barber, a Financial Times’ former editor, claims the Queen’s son Prince Andrew told him of his mother’s plans during lunch – one week before the referendum.”

    121. robertknight says:


      “If we allow internal strife to break out before next May, there can only be disadvantage as the strong platform to re-build will be considerably weakened.”

      That, I’m afraid, is exactly the attitude which the SNP are hoping will prevail, with absolutely NO INTENTION of a changing of the guard at the top.

      She’ll keep surrounding herself with her nodding dog acolytes, protected by those who are mysteriously appointed by hubby, and so long as she keeps kicking the IndyRef2 can down the road, the opposition and MSM will resist going after her despite the skeletons jostling to get out the closet.

      You’ve a choice of no IndyRef2, erosion of powers at Holyrood and gender woo-woo with the SNP… Or no IndyRef2, erosion of powers at Holyrood and union-Jackery writ-large with a coalition of Yoons.

      Unless we take out the trash BEFORE the election in May and get a majority for a pro-Indy and gender woo-woo lite SNP, we’re stuffed!

    122. Sarah says:

      @ Effijy at 09.25

      You say the number of posters is going down on here. It may well be due to the Rev’s efficient filtering system!

    123. CameronB Brodie says:

      In support of Lorna Campbell’s comment re. the encroachment of males into the spaces preciously considered safe by natal women. Picking on one issue risks trivializing the harm the proposed GRA amendments can be expected to have on open society. As enabling men to colonise the legal realm of “womanhood”, simply relegates natal women to second class human beings. Who are unable to defend their legal identity from political encroachment, in much the same way as Scots in yoonyawn. So Scottish women actually face a double whammy of rights violation, if we can’t stop this extremely badly drafted legislation.

      So here’s a look at “Substantive equality revisited”, for those interested in defending Scotland’s democracy from two crap governments.

    124. Hatuey says:

      McDuff says:
      22 November, 2020 at 9:02 am
      “what still puzzles me is why so many SNP MSP/MP’s are so quiet when Sturgeon is so obviously flushing independence down the pan in front of their faces.”

      They are quiet. Not loud. Not shouting in support. Not on twitter or anywhere else defending their leader in her time of need, during this time of great crisis.

      It’s the quiet ones you need to watch.

      A lot of them are stepping down in May. It’s very odd. They should be excitedly preparing to fight for the last time in a devolved Scotland, anticipating the realisation of biggest hopes and dreams – that’s what the polls and the leadership seem to be suggesting – but instead they’re giving up their highly paid jobs and getting out. They’re quietly leaving.

      I think we can safely say the manager has lost the dressing room.

    125. Andy Ellis says:


      I don’t think the things you are positing as necessary are in fact necessary. I doubt they are what was in place in other countries which managed to contain the virus with more success than Scotland or England.

      Many of the measures you describe as draconian are in fact pragmatic responses to an unprecedented situation. The population in general will support curtailment of its usual liberties where it sees them as necessary &/or appropriate.

      The general point stands I think: many of those – generally it has to be said from the political right who deny the seriousness of the virus like Trump in the US, Bolsanaro in Brazil and some (mostly) Tories here do so specifically on the grounds that the economic damage caused by more stringent controls is just not worth the reduction in deaths.

      That may not apply to all of those opposing more stringent methods, or those who are motivated more by civil liberties than alt-right anti-scientific “know nothingism”, but the latter are far more prevalent and far more dangerous in my view. The congruence between anti-vaxxers and those prone to questioning whether we need to take more stringent measures against Covid-19 is no accident.

      I think we’ve already seen the fruits of the UK government failing to listen to and act on scientific advice both at the outset of the epidemic, and more recently when they relaxed lock down too early. History will not be kind to the governments who failed to address this adequately, but the individuals attacking the continuation of such measures have to take their share of responsibility too.

      I’m not arguing by the way that there are no civil liberties concerns, or that these shouldn’t be debated. I support parliament being given the chance to debate and rule on measures to the extent practicable, rather than have them imposed.

    126. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, so here’s the skinny. Scots have little chance of enjoying access to due process in law and to the potential benefits of democracy, if we allow our law officers in both parliaments, to play funny buggers with legal practice that is divorced from reality and the Common law. So here’s a look at “LEGAL DISCOURSE; STUDIES IN LINGUISTICS, RHETORIC AND LEGAL ANALYSIS”, in case you’ve not noticed we’ve two governments to deal with. Which appear intent on harming the fabric of our civic society and public consciousness, through legal sharp practice and cynical linguistic vandalism.

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      I am very conscious of being a tedious space-hog, but when you’ve got the ball in front of you, and you’ve only got to re-connect with very rusty skills, it would be churlish of me, and ultimately self-harming, not to seek to burst the net. Though those who seek to shape Scots law apparently support an anti-foundational approach to legal thinking, which is incapable of supporting substantive equality and open democracy. That’s possibly why their legal practice might appear a tad arbitrary and dogmatic, though it’s clearly a supine stance they adopt towards HMG Civil Service and English Torydum.

      So here’s a look at “Postmodern Philosophy and Legal Thought”. Which I think relevant to the state of legal vulnerability and, subsequent, legal subordination that is still ‘enjoyed’ by natal women. As well as Scotland’s legal future, apparently.

    128. Andy Ellis says:

      “I am very conscious of being a tedious space-hog”…..

      ….and yet……

      Never thought I’d see such Trumpian levels of self awareness BTL on WoS. There are just not enough LOLZ in the world.

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      Lame snark is rather tedious. Especially when directed towards others who seek to share a multi-disciplinary perspective into the legal ‘workings’ of democracy. So it probably wasn’t intended to trigger me to offering a look at “The rule of recognition and the emergence of a legal system”.

      “The paper claims that the rule of recognition, given the way it is presented by Hart, cannot be a constitutive rule of any legal system as a whole, but rather a constitutive rule of (primary) legal rules as elements of a legal system. Since I take the legal system to be an institutional artifact kind, I claim that, in order to account for a legal system as a whole, at least two further constitutive rules, in addition to the rule of recognition as a token-element constitutive rule, are needed – one constitutive of legal officials and the other constitutive of a legal system as a token.

      However, given the central role the legal officials’ practice occupies in establishing a particular instantiation or token of a legal system, I also claim that the rule of recognition cannot be understood as ‘merely’ a token-element constitutive rule but also as a legal system’s implementation or concretisation rule.”

    130. Nally Anders says:

      Big thanks to Ian Brotherhood for reposting Lorna Campbell’s wise words
      As ever Lorna, 100% agree.
      Can’t understand why the current leadership seem intent on alienating 51% of the voting public to suit less than 1% of the population.
      The Equalities Act protects the characteristic of transgender persons. The 2004 GRA provides a route to obtain a GR certificate. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
      If Lizard Truss in Westminster can agree to retain single sex spaces why can’t Nicola Sturgeon?

    131. Andy Ellis says:


      I think it will be interesting to see what happens at conference. If the gradualists aren’t faced down and the NEC isn’t overhauled, I think the game’s a bogey. The few voices of reason left inside the party in positions of influence will need to put up or shut up: either they will accept it an “wheesht for indy”, or they’ll have to do something else.

      It will be interesting to watch what people like Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray, Angus MacNeil et al who oppose the current leadership do if nothing much changes. They have elected to stay within the party to try and effect change from within: the $64,000 question for them is what will they do if the party’s not for turning?

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’d suggest there is a unworkable mess at the heart of the SNP, as well as our government and judicial systems. Which have been hobbled in order to ensure they stands under Westminster’s assumed supreme authority. So you’re simply on to plumbs if you respect “REGULATORY THEORY – FOUNDATIONS AND

    133. Dan says:

      @ Andy

      Aye, it’s now all up to the current members who took up being full delegates. Pity so many switched on folk left the party already though…
      It’s kinda understandably they left on matters of conscience, but in doing so they are now unable to give the remaining ones agitating for change hauners.

      Believe me when I say I have seriously struggled with the ethical principles of what’s been going on, but as a practical chap who builds bespoke complex machinery I’ve weighed up how best to try to repair the situation in practical engineering terms rather than in emotional terms.
      That being the case I have to grab and utilise the few available tools to hand, as they are more likely to make a difference than just wishing.
      If it doesn’t work, then fuck it, I tried, and at least won’t have to carry any burden of feeling I could have done more.

    134. PacMan says:

      Andy Ellis says: 22 November, 2020 at 1:07 pm


      I don’t think the things you are positing as necessary are in fact necessary. I doubt they are what was in place in other countries which managed to contain the virus with more

      Not entirely correct. These were the sort of steps that were taken in South East Asia that allowed them to take the necessary steps to successfully contain it. Here are some links:

      Also, Vietnam was so successful that that they are on track to getting positive economic growth this year:

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