Late to the party
Posted on
March 23, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The BBC’s coverage of the SNP spring conference has finally started. You can watch it on BBC2 Scotland or on this live web stream, and discuss developments below.
The BBC haven’t actually started showing the conference yet, we’re getting Brian Taylor interviewing Nicola Sturgeon. Apparently Dennis Canavan is going down a storm in the hall. And while it’s deeply unsatisfactory that the “national” broadcaster isn’t covering that – do they miss so much as a single minute of the Labour and Tory conferences? – it’s also thoroughly rubbish that the SNP doesn’t have its own stream. Aren’t they supposed to be modern and savvy about this sort of thing?
I’m trying to watch/listen to Nicola Sturgeon talk to that Muppet Taylor.
I’m desperately trying to watch the interview WITHOUT throwing something at the T.V. WHEN is this MUPPET going to shut the hell up and actually let Nicola ANSWER the question and more importantly let US the viewer hear her answer!
What is the point of the “will my income tax rise under Independent Scotland?” erm NO ONE knows Bubba just like NO ONE knows if your income tax will NOT go up remaining in the union. DOH!
The BBC link won’t let me watch outside the UK and the only BBC 2 Scotland stream I can find is “offline”. Will have to rely on Twitter and here I guess… 🙁
I just turned it on, and Curtice is laying down the law about what the SNP is doing, thinking, and has to do, and how terribly difficult it will be for them. Pass me the sick bag, why do I have to watch this?
I thought of driving up to Inverness. Obviously I should have done that.
Is Curtice morphing into Krusty the clown, or do l need new glasses. 🙂
I notice Curtice has a red mark on his forehead.
Hopefully someone has lamped him.
Curtice is doing my head in!
AT LAST wee Eck, or rather cool Eck frae Buchan is on! 🙂
Oh my giddy aunt. surely the hall in which A.S. is speaking can NOT be bigger than the hall Rennie spoke in can it?? 😆
Not watching but the SNP tweets are barnstorming!
Aye they are, are they NOT! 😆
Canna wait ti see the BBC spin on the conference
WHIT! the BBC will put a spin on this conference?
Shooreley Shome Mishtake! 😆
Oops!
An independent Scotland would be the EIGHTH most prosperous country in the world, AHEAD of the UK sitting at SEVENTEENTH, one place behind………ICELAND! 😆
Och thats easy to see: “Let’s consult the only expert in [insert here] who’ll talk to us for free & toe our editorial line. Oh what a surprise they agree with us!”
I am reading this speech as “bring it on”.
Darling says X – fuck you Darling, Iraq discredited you.
Tories say X – fuck you tories, bedroom tax & tuition fees.
SNP unpopular with women – fuck you critics, 600 hours of nursery care.
They been keeping their powder dry I think.
Great to see YES FASLANE at conference! 😆
What the hell is Curtice on A.S. “suggesting”?
HELL he was suggesting NOTHING he was stating FACT!!!!!
Krusty on about women’s vote, seems to be plenty women in the audience
Here we go AGAIN!!!
As per usual Curtice and Kerr were obviously NOT watching the same speech that everyone else was watching! What a bunch of numpties!
Is Curtice a wind-up dummy?
What is with those wazzacks on BBC?
Now it is Taylor that “suggests” SNP led Scottish councils will NOT evict tenants over bedroom tax, WRONG it was NOT suggested it is FACT!!!!
Look at the hand/arm movements with Curtice. Is he about to self-destruct?
“Scotland, it appears, wants to go its own way. And now that England has seen just how little gratitude people in Scotland demonstrate for the advantages and privileges that a devolved parliament has given them, perhaps it will simply be inclined to say, ‘goodriddance’.” – John Curtice, 2008.
http://www.ippr.org/images/media/files/publication/2011/05/where_stands_union_1624.pdf
Andrew Kerr doing his utmost to defend the undefendable…the UK!
Wonder how much he gets paid EXTRA for taking the protect the union at all costs stance!
How bad is Kerr
Curtice looks like he could do with a good wash!
Hey, give that man his full name. He’s not the only one around here with the surname Kerr.
I’ve just switched it off after seeing attempts to drag down Nicola with nuclear nonsense.
They are not called the BBC for nowt.
Duncan Ross on now. One of my old mates from London Branch in the 1990s.
Isn’t it about time we started investigating the funding of these unionists lackeys – Curtice, McLaren, The Fraser of Allander Institute et al. If they receive funding from any private individual or corporation then their ‘independent’ tag that the BBC always brand them with could easily be challenged.
Better Together’s poll released today to divert attention from the SNP’s conference chose to highlight the results of a question about the use of sterling.
However, the rest of the poll might be more interesting, especially as it seems to be based on their misrepresentation of the ‘secret’ government report – the results perhaps aren’t what they wanted.
When shown six negative statements about an independent Scotland and asked what difference they would make to their decisions, those saying they would ‘vote against independence anyway’ never reaches above 45%.
Those who would be more likely vote yes, less likely vote yes and would vote yes anyway total up to between 40% and 43%.
A pdf of the poll results from their website is here.
Andrew Kerr now trying his underhand Labour approach with his “interview” with John Swinney”. Will someone PLEASE take this stupid wee laddie away and give him an EDUCATION! The man is a moron! He has NO concept of how to ask NEUTRAL questions he can only ATTACK! I always understood an interviewer’s job was to INTERVIEW not attack!
Nice to see he is making the point an Independent Scotland would still have debt, and you point is KERR (Andrew), you saying Britain is debt FREE?
I wonder if Labour in Scotland will back the SNP’s no eviction stance on the Bedroom Tax?
@Morag
Sorry, from now on I’ll refer to him as no. wan-kerr. 🙂
@Baheid
You’re right – it IS Krusty- I was trying to figure out who he was reminding me of.
So Mr Taylor given that WE all know you are a unionist why do you NOT just come out and admit the facts……YOU are an anti-Independence supporter who can NOT get his head round the fact that Scotland WILL have a referendum in 2014 and a YES vote will ensure that Scotland becomes a fairer more caring society!
Oh you got to love Taylor.
UK is NOT as reliant on oil as Scotland is!
WHIT?
What the hell has he been taking?
@Arbroath1320
High sugar diet, (cream buns etc), does that to you
🙂 now were going to get dad’s army!! 🙂
That was very disappointing coverage. All we got of Blair Jenkins’s speech was the opening couple of sentences.
Just watched Brian Taylor interviewing Tom Gordon of The Herald and a reporter from the Sunday Post. Brian tried hard to get them to say something negative and kept feeding them openers, but surprisingly, they didn’t really bite.
Did you expect anything else Morag?
Amazing how BBC is allowed to get away with this ANTI Independence approach to their alleged neutral broadcasting stance!
I very much doubt the BBC knows what the word NEUTRAL actually means!
BBC = British Brainwashing Committee
About a year ago I was at a musical evening in Carlops celebrating the 70th birthday of poet Aonghas MacNeacail. In his thank-you speech he said something that really struck me. “The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear.”
Bitter Together is busting a gut trying to whip up fear. Yes Scotland has a message of hope. It’s human nature to respond to those bringing hope. Just give it time.
That would make a good T-shirt slogan, Morag.
Hope or Fear?
Better Together have absolutely NO argument for anything. They are so intent on putting down Scotland they can’t see past the end of their nose. They are so full of JEALOUSY! They can see Westminster is doing a FANTASTIC job of pulling the rug from under their feet! It’ must be extremely stressful fighting to save the BROKEN union when at the same time Westminster is doing all it can to WIN the YES argument for the YES campaign!
@Morag
Salmon from the pool
Deer from the moor
Tree from the wood
Three things
it’s no crime
to take from nature
Grouse and salmon and deer
… and land and land and land
whose are they
who stole them
whose are they
who stole them
whose are they
who stole them
A national treasure. Criminally undervalued.
Alex Salmond’s speech from Inverness today from Bella Caledonia.
Its text only:
wp.me/p93oK-2Ao
The fact is they’ve got nothing, if they did they’d use it. And this offensive bluster in the face of reasonable responses will only turn those undecided in one direction. I think it’s actually starting to work for us now. Keep it up, they lose, stop and let people give the facts, they lose. 18 months to go – big win.
On the back of this utter and complete incompetent and biased ‘reporting’, I’ve just fired off another request to ODHIR (email: office@odhir.pl) to monitor, investigate and report on the BBC’s impartiality and integrity.
I expect I’ll be on first name terms with these folks come 18/9/14.
best wisto all all.
Curtice and the Beeb`s Labour boys presenters keep mentioning the polls, that the Yes campaign is trailing and needs to change hearts and minds, blah de blah…
The polls will always seem to show support for independence trailing the No vote, and probably right up to September 18th, 2014. I imagine the classic 33-36% mark will be the usual levels of support ‘revealed’ in any future polls; certainly never over 40%.
Curtice will be wheeled out every other day or so to tell us all that independence is kinda not going to happen. I guess that`s something we are going to have to live with for a while.
I`ll put the kettle on…
iPads spillchucker’s not wonkin, ‘wisto’ should be best wishes to all
Check out @TogetherDarling ‘s “live tweet feed” throughout Alex Salmond’s speech. It’s truly dire desperate stuff. Has nobody ever told him he comes across as a total erse of the first order?
@Adrian B
Good theme, ‘the why of independence’.
Particularly liked the bit about the 1979 referendum:
‘Listen to just this one example – among the tirade of scare stories – used to frighten people into voting No to self-government in 1979. It was a Daily Express editorial 10 days before the referendum:
“How much of Scotland’s economy will be left intact if a Scottish Assembly gets the go-ahead on March 1? Will our coal mines go gaily on? Will Ravenscraig or Linwood thrive? Will Bathgate flourish and Dounreay prosper?”
No assembly came in 1979 – and every plant and facility listed by the Express closed under Westminster-rule – all gone, every one.
We will not be conned again.’
@Yesitis
Hey, good ol Mitt was winning the presidential race right up until he didn’t.
I do think we’re trailing in the polls, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near a 20% gap and then there’s the dinnae kens. Somehow I don’t think they’re as undecided as the pollsters think. And that gap will narrow steadily as bedroom tax and workfare start to bite and bring the reality of Westminster’s current team into every house. We’ll all know someone who suffers as a result.
Oh aye, better no will be winning right up until they don’t. 🙂
Here s how I think this works RE BBC in particular.
All political parties talk with journalists, we all know this, its not a new phenomena. The SNP, greens and Yes Scotland probably spend most of their time off screen talking about general information and having to explain to journalists their position on things.
The opposition and Better Together on the other hand are happy to express that only 35% want Independence – in actual fact the figure is not much better for those that want to retain the Union, but that goes overlooked by BBC Journalists reporters. The other thing that seems to get discussed a lot is how the SNP have to give us all the facts despite a road plan on all this being published some time ago.
The opposition can girn and whine for another 18 months as far as I am concerned – it shows us all exactly how much they are prepared to do for Scotland, they do it day in and day out and they are waring the public down about what they can expect from the Better Together coalition post 2014.
Two distinct paths are opening up in front of us and One side will not be wanting to talk about what options they will put before the Scottish electorate. I am not happy that is the way that Better Together want to do things, but it is going to polarise the options for the electorate.
Unfortunately I was not able to watch all of A.S speech but what I did see I found inspiring .
I also hate to say this but I think curtis was right about one thing ‘ it was not the table thumping speech that had the audience jumping in the aisles that we have come to expect of Alex . I personally think it was a more mature inspiring speech that will reach out to all sections of Scottish society ‘ gone was the smarmy A.S that unionists like to paint him ‘ instead we got the world statesman hoping to inspire a nation to a better future .
Maybe just maybe ‘ Nicola has taken him aside and has been giving him lessons on how to come across to women as well as men
I am beginning to wonder about Professor John Curtice. He almost always attempts to be as negative as possible about independence. Curtice was delighted when Angus Robertson admitted that Yes has a mountain to climb. I don’t think it would be advisable to say anything else about him. Lets just say if there is a Yes vote next year, I would expect a lot of information to come out in the wash about some ‘impartial’ commentators and journalists.
I do have to admit I have a different take on the questions asked of Yes politicians and figures. I expect them to be asked very difficult questions. I have no problems with the questions Brian Taylor asked. I actually think he is a good reporter. He is entitled to his own personal opinions on politics, and I do believe that he is as neutral as he can be. I have heard him ask difficult questions of Unionist politicians. What I have a major problem with is Gordon Brewer’s style. He constantly interrupts, whereas today I felt SNP politicians interviewed were given time to answer.
In 2007, when the SNP got that wafer-thin majority and formed a minority government, I cherished just a sliver of hope. Every government gets bashed by the media, because every government does things that prove to be unpopular. Bashing the government is almost a national sport. Now the SNP was the government.
Everybody went on and on about how difficult minority government is. The first year, getting the easy stuff through, might go all right, but after that, it would get harder and harder. There was a lot of speculation that the SNP couldn’t possibly go a full term.
I thought, how can they pass a referendum bill in that climate? They’ll struggle against the opposition, and any achievements will be talked down, and that’ll be the chance blown. It’s too little, and we’ll lose in 2011 without getting anywhere.
But at the same time I thought, there’s a chance. The SNP in coalition with the LibDems would be just another government. It would just be another government taking Buggins’ turn. The SNP as a minority government might just do it. Did they have the talent and the ability and the staying power to do it? Well maybe. So I clung on to that.
Look how that turned out.
I have far far more hope now. In 2011 I campaigned for the SNP as much out of fear of having a Labour government back in Holyrood, and Iain Gray as FM, as for independence. Independence still seemed a bit of a dream, but Iain Gray as FM was an all-too-present nightmare.
I had been saying for a long time that what might happen was a tipping point. Like the events of the summer of 1989 led to the fall of the Berlin Wall and in the end to the fall of the USSR and independence for the former Soviet satellites. I didn’t know what it might be, but it was an idea. On the morning of 6th May 2011 I said to my mother that this might be the tipping point. I knew we’d get our referendum, though I scarcely hoped for a legally binding one-question yes-no one, even then.
For Zog’s sake, guys, look where we are now, scarcely six years later! That tiny sliver of hope has blossomed beyond my wildest dreams. The only thing that’s not right is the opinion polls. And I for one never really expected the opinion polls to be sitting high 18 months out from the vote.
Work hard, stay positive, and just think about the progress since the LibDems decided against going into coalition in 2007 (the real tipping point, I now believe). The momentum is all there.
Is it me or were the members of the “Curtice Show” even MORE desperate this time round than they were last year?
Maybe the BBC should be renamed the BDBC!
BDBC = British Desperate Brainwashing Committee!
As he was so neatly cut off by the BBC, where can I hear or read Blair Jenkin’s speech, anyone?
Interesting:
National Collective?@WeAreNational
Delighted to reveal that ‘Top 10 Unionist Myths – DEBUNKED’ has been viewed by over 500,000. That’s around 1/10 Scots. #yes #indyref #snp13
@Morag
Very good post. I agree that we have come a long, long way, even since 2007. It is just getting over that 50% now. This is still going to be very difficult. I believe the Yes campaign have the politicians, the strategists, the non-political figures, and the number of activists required to do very well. What I feel is the only part lacking is the media support. As Rev Stu has said the Scottish Sun may well support independence. I am not convinced many others will though. I could see the Sunday Herald supporting the Yes campaign. I suspect Yes Scotland is going to be faced with the most sustained political propaganda campaign ever seen in the UK.
O/T I see over on Bella C’s Twitter that good old Duncan Hothersall is having an argument over the best interests of the working class with Dennis Canavan! How surreal… 😀
O/T I see over on Bella C’s Twitter that good old Duncan Hothersall is having an argument over the best interests of the working class with Dennis Canavan! How surreal…:D:
Duncan H knows NOTHING about the working class, he assumes everything in his life can be made to fit into the lives of others. He only looks out for himself. Which has been typical of his party since Blair became leader.
@Adrian B
Lord Foulkes is also involved in the argument. :D:
O/T I see over on Bella C’s Twitter that good old Duncan Hothersall is having an argument over the best interests of the working class with Dennis Canavan! How surreal…
I take it it is quite a blood bath then. 😆
@ Morag, well expressed. Stay focussed and constancy to purpose.
Dennis Canavan ?@DennisCanavan 24 Feb
Sad 2c so many Lab MPs/MSPs working with Tories etc in #Bettertogether defending
8:50 AM – 24 Feb 13 · Details
George Foulkes ?@GeorgeFoulkes 24 Feb
@DennisCanavan Wrong! Labour is defending the working class right across the UK, not in one part of it.
Details Expand Collapse
Dennis Canavan ?@DennisCanavan 28 Feb
@GeorgeFoulkes So sorry,my Lord, your noble efforts escaped my notice.The working class is not confined to UK.We’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns
Retweeted by Bella Caledonia
View conversation Hide conversation
7:18 AM – 28 Feb 13 · Details
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 28 Feb
@DennisCanavan @GeorgeFoulkes So you’re campaigning to divide UK so we can cut taxes to attract sub living wage jobs? For the working class?
spoiledballotpaper ?@spoiled_ballot 28 Feb
@dhothersall Do you ever leave your computer, Duncan?
Embed Tweet
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 28 Feb
@spoiled_ballot Yes.
Embed Tweet
David Robertson ?@Daveinmaryburgh 28 Feb
@dhothersall wouldn’t level of tax and setting of living wage depend on first gov’s policies @DennisCanavan
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 28 Feb
@Daveinmaryburgh @DennisCanavan Right. So how can campaigning for indy be described as “defending the working class.”
@Morag – A very good couple of posts, I sincerely hope that we vote for hope over fear. I think we have still to arrive at the tipping point, not sure what it will be, but I think AS and NS have something up their respective sleeves. My guess is something to do with the economy that proves beyond doubt that Scotland will flourish as an independent country.
Just noticed Curtice has his own show on BBC Scotland now
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tjq74/Fraochy_Bay_Series_1_Shios_agus_shuas_(Up_Periscope)/
Haven’t watched it yet though
WHIT?
He is not content with his own “Curtice show” putting down Scotland, her people and her Scottish politicians he has to invade Fraochy Bay as Well? 😆
Cracking posts Morag, and fully agree.
Sometimes it can be interesting and helpful to see yourself as others see you. Here is an article written for a non-Scottish, even non-British audience, which doesn’t quite manage to put lipstick on Captain D. It is interesting what Grant in Ullapool says and there is a link to a handy list of Prof. Curtice’s comments. BTW, if Curtis hasn’t already been outed as a committed unionist, I think he does it himself by saying (my highlighting);
“You can persuade people that the union can be made to work if we have someone standing up for our interests.”
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-08/darling-emerges-to-defend-british-unity-in-battle-over-scotland.html
Vote Yes on September 18
To be fair, he probably means us Scots having someone standing up for our interests at Westminster.
I thought that was supposed to be Mickey Moore. Look how well that worked out….
The latest coverage from the bbc website includes a short clip of the chidcare aspects of AS’s speech which Andrew Black has quoted from before reporting other aspects.
The piece also has a short analysis by Brian Tailor on what he thought the address aimed to do.
here’s the link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-21897443
Compare, contrast and assess what was reported with the text of AS’s speech from the Bella Caledonia link – TVM Adrian B at 5:03pm – here: wp.me/p93oK-2Ao
Its spooky, but right now I’m watching Ray Mears Bushcraft. He’s living with a tribe in Venezuela. As I’m watching this and scanning todays posts on here a tribal chief is sitting there explaining how he is in negotiation with the govt. over ownership of the land his tribe has lived on for generations untold. I’m paraphrasing but his comments went along these lines. ‘We are close to having full ownership/responsibility for our land. This will be a great thing, we will be able to make our own decisions, protect our culture, care for the land and pass on our teachings to our children. We will decide how much and how quickly we will adapt to modern/new ways and we will be able to take our own time to decide what is good for us.’
Ray Mears nods sagely in agreement that this is the way things should be and speaks highly of this attitude and these aims. The honest, simple integrity of the statements made by this tribal elder seemed to me to be the most natural thing in the world. Care for your land, care for your people, make your own decisions based on your needs, protect your culture and pass something on for future generations.
Seems like a good idea to me.
CameronB
love that article. quoting the CEO of Aggreko, aka Rupert Soames, brother of Nicholas Soames MP, who is a tory, as if representative.
Morag says:
“To be fair, he probably means us Scots having someone standing up for our interests at Westminster.”
Possibly, but it still smells a bit unionist to me. I am afraid I have run out of doubt, with which to benefit politicians and their stooges with.
Macart,
where do I sign?
@Braco
I think we should get this lad over here to have a chat with Darling and his cronies. Sign him up for the YES campaign. 😀 He spoke more honestly and with more sense and integrity in a two minute piece to camera inthe middle of a jungle, than any of those soundbite monkeys at Westminster or their pet telly pundits have in decades.
iPlayer link for the conference – http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rk381/Conference_2013_Scottish_National_Party_Spring_Conference/
John Curtice has been coming out with some bizarre statements recently. In a Guardian article months ago he said that there was less discontent with the Union in Scotland at present than was previously the case. He repeated this line this afternoon. The obvious problem with this view is that Scottish voters did not vote for the Coalition government at Westminster. Therefore, we are been shafted again by an extreme right-wing UK government. However, Curtice never mentions this, which is strange as it is precisely because we are in the Union that this situation occurs. The only solution is independence, where we can elect our own governments. Why does he never point this out? I think we all know the answer to that one…
A bunch of us were out leafletting for the Yes campaign in Perthshire today (we have a public meeting on 26 march and the leaflets were to draw public attention to it) and it was bitterly cold with gusting wind and snow flurries. My hands were freezing.
We were out for three hours and when I got home my lovely wife gave me a brandy then rolls and bacon with a mug of hot tea.
I’ll be out again next week delivering more leaflets. Smug? No! Just proud.
I seem to have made the wrong decision today. Why did I go to SNP13, listen to some inspiring speeches and leave feeling enthusiastic, with a rosy glow, when I could have stayed at home, watched TV and SHOUTED AT THE INTERNET?
“I’ll be out again next week delivering more leaflets. Smug? No! Just proud.”
[doffs hat, salutes, lines one up on bar]
Any one get the feeling that Curtice is going down the old road of tell a lie load enough and often enough then the public will believe it to be true?
I’m beginning to think that the only people who are believing this lie is Curtice himself and his best buddies at the BBC!
Morag says:
“To be fair, he probably means us Scots having someone standing up for our interests at Westminster.”
Sorry, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I forgot to point out that the Bloomberg article I linked too, was about Captain D’s leadership of BT. I think in this context, the “we” and “our” Curtis is referring to, are the union and unionist interests. I might be wrong though.
Macart,
don’t wish that on the man! The whole, otherwise supportive, ‘liberal’ UK media would turn their ire and malice on his own struggle.
We know how to handle and defeat such media aggression and should do everything in our power to protect all friends from such sustained negativity.
With independence, the power of our democratic government to support such friends, financially, diplomatically and even militarily gives me goose bumps!
Welcome to the world!
Vote YES! on the 18/09/2014 please.
@Arb
The thing is Curtice got his predictions for the 2011 elections hopelessly wrong. You would think this might serve as a warning to him, as he is supposedly an expert on the Scottish electorate. I am afraid Curtice gives the impression of detesting independence, and I just do not trust him at all to give an honest appraisal of the situation in the referendum. From his opinions and body language (he smirked when he remarked on Angus Robertson’s comment that the Yes campaign had a mountain to climb) it is clear he is a diehard Unionist. I am beginning to wonder if it is worthwhile to even comment on Curtice from now on.
Cameron said:
Sorry, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I forgot to point out that the Bloomberg article I linked too, was about Captain D’s leadership of BT. I think in this context, the “we” and “our” Curtis is referring to, are the union and unionist interests. I might be wrong though.
It’s a question of interpretation, so unless someone has mindreading skills, we can’t know for sure. I just pointed out that there is actually an innocent interpretation.
Garve said:
I seem to have made the wrong decision today. Why did I go to SNP13, listen to some inspiring speeches and leave feeling enthusiastic, with a rosy glow, when I could have stayed at home, watched TV and SHOUTED AT THE INTERNET?
You went because you actually got to hear the speeches, rather than having the cameras cut away so we could listen to Curtice again.
It would have been difficult for me to arrange to go, but I still wish I had. I saw some good friends in the audience.
Morag @ 5.44
brilliant and positive post!
Thanks
Muttley, you realise there are two professors of politics at Strathclyde Uni. Curtice and James Mitchell. Mitchell is generally pro-independence, but he is very careful to maintain a neutral position when talking to the media and indeed in any public pronouncement.
He did a big research project on the membership of the SNP, in about 2006 or 2007. He’s quite an expert on the party. You’d think he’d be a go-to person at the moment.
As I said, he does not come across partisan in public. Why do you think he isn’t being asked to the media party at all?
Morag says:
“I just pointed out that there is actually an innocent interpretation”.
Agreed, though I would replace actually with possibly.
Now pick yourself up off the floor Rev.
What really gets me Muttley is that with the almost constant “Curtice Show” on BBC it does tend to leave the viewer with the impression that he, Curtice, is the ONLY person in the whole of Scotland who is “qualified” to pass comment on all things political, polls, political parties, p[political intentions etc. I kind of think this is a joint attack by Curtice and the BBC to maintain the old lie……..we’re too wee, too poor and too stupid! If only Curtice or the BBC would dare to step out into the REAL world I’m sure they would have their eyes well and truly OPENED! 😆
Cameron said:
Agreed, though I would replace actually with possibly.
Well, splitting hairs I know, but it is an innocent explanation. You are just pointing out that it may not be the correct interpretation. Which is a reasonable observation.
CameronB,
You are formally called to vote over on Quarantine.
Spread the word please, when and if you bump into the Quintangle.
Thanks
I think in this context, the “we” and “our” Curtis is referring to, are the union and unionist interests. I might be wrong though.
I’m certain you’re wrong. Why would Unionists need someone to speak up for the interests of the Union? The Union works in the interest of the Union. The Union establishment is made up of people working for the interests of the Union. Why on earth would he be talking about the Union working if the Union has someone standing up for the Union’s interests? Why would anyone swithering on independence be persuaded that the Union could be made to work if only there were someone speaking up for the interests of the Union? That’s the status quo. He’s either making no sense at all – and as much as you or I might disagree with much of what he says, it’s usually coherent sentences – or he’s talking about Scotland and Scottish interests.
C&C, remembering that it is Scots, not unionists, that need to be persuaded:
“You can persuade people that the union can be made to work if unionists have someone standing up for unionist interests.”
“You can persuade people that the union can be made to work if Scots have someone standing up for Scottish interests.”
Of course, either way round he’s admitting that the Union doesn’t work.
Tomorrow’s Sunday Herald front cover
http://twitpic.com/cdtfwf
Jiggsbro says:
“Of course, either way round he’s admitting that the Union doesn’t work”.
Glad I spotted that. Given the context or his comment though, I think he is referring to Captain D, as the ‘someone’ to stand up for our interests. I could still be wrong though.
You think he’s saying “You can persuade people that the union can be made to work if unionists have someone [like Alastair Darling] standing up for unionist interests.”? In what context does that make any sense? Only one in which the union has no one standing up for unionist interests and Scots favouring independence can be persuaded to vote for the union by the idea that the interests of the union will be protected. That’s not the context the remarks were made in. It’s not a context that has ever existed or is ever likely to exist.
Curtice is biased, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is biased, particularly when the ‘biased’ interpretation makes no sense whatsoever. Every time supporters of independence magic examples of bias out of nothing it becomes easier for the real bias to be dismissed as paranoia and special pleading, There are enough clear examples of bias on the BBC without inventing more. We do ourselves no favours when look for hidden messages to reinforce our own prejudices, or imagine hypothetical bias in hypothetical scenarios, or dismiss everything said by a perceived opponent as biased. To the uninformed and undecided, it just makes us – all of us – look like the chippy, whinging stereotypes the unionists love to paint us as.
I doubt that anyone was ever, or will ever be, persuaded towards independence by the idea that they’re all out to get us. It’s facts, plus the ‘hopey-changey stuff’, that wins votes, not complaints. And particularly not spurious complaints that discard common sense and simply beg the question.
Jiggsbro says:
““You can persuade people that the union can be made to work if unionists have someone [like Alastair Darling] standing up for unionist interests.”? In what context does that make any sense?”
In the context of an article headlined “Darling Emerges to Defend British Unity in Battle Over Scotland”.
Am I still missing something?
There was a link to an article put up earlier when people were discussing Kru…Prof Curtice.
i found this quote at the end interesting “Darling said. “They only have to win once. They win by one vote and that’s it, there’s no going back.””
at least SOMEBODY on the BT side is accepting 50% + 1 vote! But, what does he think will happen if we lose? That we’ll go quietly into the night? Nah! Where’s the fun in that?! ;-D
NOW I’m getting BetterTogether Spam on Facebook.
Who is paying for this? Does it count against Electoral Commision spending limits!
And I don’t want their Spam on my timeline , I wonder if I can block it
Oh Dear
Krustie the Clown and his alter ego Prof Curtice…I cannot get that out of my head. Soooo bad!
We were out for three hours and when I got home my lovely wife gave me a brandy then rolls and bacon with a mug of hot tea.
That’s what I call working for a better nation. Respect to you and your wife. With attitudes like this, how can Scotland lose.
@Braco
Heh, I’d never inflict our media on the old fella. 😀
As for your second request, consider it a done deal. 🙂
Another pretty fair piece by Kevin McKenna over on Guardian site.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/24/scotland-independence-labour?fb=native&commentpage=1
I’m beginning to have some hopes for this lad Rev.
@Macart
But this morning, more crap from our old friends at BBC Scotland.
According to the bitter together poll 71% of pro-union people want AS to go up against Alistair Darling (I suspect that AS will want to speak to the organ grinder not the monkey)
Also the Bitter together poll showed 73% did not feel that they had enough details of how independence would work (Yawn) According to AD “People know that, if the nationalists had the answers to their questions, we would have heard them by now. The fact is that they can not answer the most basic questions about independence” “Setting the date is not enough. Salmond must set out the detail”
It goes on with a brief paragraph with NS saying David Cameron should face Alex Salmond etc.
What planet is Alistair Darling on?
Further to my above comment. What is Alistair Darling for?
Alex Salmonds equivelent is David Cameron. We have “Yes” Blair verses “No” Blair. I assume that Alister Darlings opposite number is Nicola Sturgeon. NS would defeat AD in any debate any time as far as I can predict.
Alister Darling on Sunday Politics at 11.00 am.
Anyone know if there’s any footage of Canavan doing his stuff yesterday? This is all I can find…
http://www.holyrood.com/2013/03/canavan-roars-at-snp-conference/
O/t with apologies. Not a fan of the mail on Sunday but on page 43 there is a review/article by Marc Horne of the book due out next month…If Hitler comes.
tried to get a digital link but failed. Article header is ‘ how Churchill’s aide planned to give up Scotland if the Germans invaded Britain’
typically they wanted to protect England at all costs…of course this was pre oil days but no reason to suspect the mindset has changed.
@The man in the Jar
Stictly speaking what we should see in one to ones would be:
FM v PM
Jenkins v McDougall
Canavan v Darling
Sturgeon v Clegg
Swinney v Osborne
Personally I reckon it would be five – nil for the YES campaign. Sturgeon v Clegg would be an outstanding event and Darling confronted with a real Labour man? No contest.
Also clocked that story which IanBrotherhood provided a link for. Who’dathunk it? Standing ovations throughout. Wonder if McDougall received that kind of welcome from the tories? 😀
Another good piece here: http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/rewriting-history-is-never-ok.20579380
Our friend James Kelly has the data from today’s Panelbase Poll in the Sunday Times on his blog, if you are Labour inclined have a lie down after reading the poll details.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/
Arbroath1320 says:
23 March, 2013 at 10:25 pm
What really gets me Muttley is that with the almost constant “Curtice Show” on BBC it does tend to leave the viewer with the impression that he, Curtice, is the ONLY person in the whole of Scotland who is “qualified” to pass comment on all things political, polls, political parties, p[political intentions etc.
In my opinion the closest thing it resembles is Fox News, another high profile outfit with a very narrow selection of on-message pundits.
Darling on the Sunday Politics with Andrew Neil throwing in an additional scare about an independent Scotland not being able to guarantee the state pension. He also said AS wants to debate with David Cameron rather than him because that makes it Scotand v England when it’s actually an issue for the people of Scotland.
Asked whether he was interested in the role of shadow chancellor under Miliband he gave the usual guff about only being interested in the job he had keeping Scot and Eng together but he made absolutely certain that we knew he was was def interested!! Once he’s done saving the union it will be a clean pair of heels he will be showing to Scotland.
And he must have been blushing afterwards as Anfrew Neil’s panel of three stooges afterwards praised him to high heaven…
Why are we still required to watch British news from London then ‘Scottish’ news both from the BBC. The two news programs on Scottish Politics show were almost identical. Is there anywhere else in the world where that happens…
NNS currently leading with this Kelly piece:
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7025-boost-for-yes-campaign-as-poll-shows-dramatic-narrowing-of-gap
@ianbrotherhood
Hmmmm, the gender gap is still rather puzzling. The majority of MEN are saying YES in greater numbers, but the majority of WOMEN are saying NO in greater numbers. Why is this? Any ideas? I know this is only one poll but it does seem to be a general trend. I must admit it’s something that has always puzzled me.
Marcia says:
Our friend James Kelly has the data from today’s Panelbase Poll
Nice. That’s three in a row got Yes rising and the rise in SNP share, while small, was also reported by MORI.
I give a fair bit of credence to Panelbase due to the fact they get results closer to ICM and Angus Reid. From my own analysis of poll data, I’d back these being not far off.
Curtice is an embarassing Unionist stooge. After his disasterous predictions for the 2011 result, any self-respecting broadcaster would have discarded him. He is obviously biased and more crucially, poorly briefed on his chosen subject. He wouldn’t have got in the door as a junior lecturer on my Politics course at yooni! But of course he is there to serve the purpose of legitimising BBC Scotland’s relentless campaign to do down both the SNP and YES campaign. Along with the Fraser of Allander Instit. et al he is rolled out to keep the semblance of business as usual for the Brits in keeping the YES’S ‘boring’ campaign for Scotland’s future appear futile and pathetic.
“Curtice is an embarassing Unionist stooge. After his disasterous predictions for the 2011 result,”
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have an actual link of any sort to this?
Agreed skier, a ten point turnover is well achievable at this stage. 2010 -2011 the SNP alone, managed to turn over a Labour 15 point lead within six months. That 18% undecided is looking increasingly more positive by the day. 🙂
Edit: I think that was 15pt list and 10pt constituency back then. Memory???? More coffee required.
@Rev Stu
I think I can recall Curtice admitting after 2011 elections that the polls got it badly wrong. I think he included himself in this.
I can’t post a URL to you vaguely recalling something, though 😀
“2010 -2011 the SNP alone, managed to turn over a Labour 15 point lead within six months. “
Six weeks, in fact.
@Rev Stu
O/T Just wanted to let you all know that I received a text today from friends who live abroad who are long-term readers of Wings. They are currently experiencing problems with internet access due to bad weather, so have asked me to pass on a message to Wings readers on their behalf – Message as follows:
“The feckin Union? Down with this fuppin grasshole sort of a thing. If, like myself, you happen to have some funds “resting in your account” get them to feck out of there quick fast and send them to feckin Wings over Scotland” Father Ted Crilly, Craggy Island, ROI.
“Voting No?”………………..Careful now”. Father Dougal McGuire, Craggy Island.
“Donate a £1.00. Ah gwan. It’s only a toiny leetle pound….gwan now…..ah gwan….gwan gwan gwan gwan gwan gwan……GWAN!” Mrs. Doyle, Craggy Island.
@Macart
That Panelbase just needs a 5.1% swing to yield 51% Yes assuming all those you gave an intention went out to vote.
Muttley, the polls didn’t get 2011 wrong, just those looking at the data did not understand what they were looking at. Labour were 10-15% ahead of the SNP (who were on just over 30%) at the beginning of 2011 according to the numbers, didn’t mean people were going to vote that way though. If you looked at 2009 polls however, before the ‘event’ that was 2010 UKGE, the 2011 SGE result was entirely predictable.
You see, if you had asked 10-15% of those responding ‘Labour’ late 2010 what they were really thinking, they’d have said ‘I don’t like Labour much anymore, but the Tories are f’in back. Labour is always how I’ve voted to stop the Tories. However, I much prefer the SNP. I’m just a little nervous about independence; that’s quite a leap’.
These people promptly went out and voted for what they really wanted on the day, not tactically, even though it was possibly a big step for them. Polls just don’t tell you this sort of stuff unless you start asking lots of more detailed questions.
The polls weren’t wrong. Curtice was.
“They are currently experiencing problems with internet access due to bad weather”
A notorious problem on Craggy Island 😀
@Rev. Weather…
I wonder if we’ll soon get headlines like this:
Independence could lead to crippling winters
Senior figures from the met office have warned that independence could lead to much colder winters in Scotland, crippling it’s economy. Forecasters cited the loss of influence of the milder climate of the south of England following separation of Scotland from the rest of the UK as the cause.
Alastair Darling has now called for Alex Salmond to spell out to voters the exactly what average temperatures and snowfall depths they can expect in an independent Scotland. ‘They’re just not giving us the details once again’ the leader of the better together campaign is quoted as saying.
@Rev Stu
You would probably have to check editions of Newsnight Scotland after the elections of May 2011. My memory is pretty good, and I can definently remember Curtice looking a little sheepish.
As requested, next podcast is available…
http://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/for-a-that-19-wholly-rude-in-holyrood/
Random things overheard on the way out of church on Palm Sunday morning, #14.
“David Mundell looked up to my wee brother.”
Apologies, I am watching Sunday politics on catch up.
I see Darling still banging on about the “secret” document having poor oil figures and “over the weekend the SNP went away and cooked the books” Considering his commitment to retaining the union you would think that he would watch FMQs where this myth was completely de-bunked by AS. It is either he dose not watch FMQs or is it because he is thick? And WTF is “the panel” fawning over Darling the economist for.
Cheers skier, looking forward to the looks of horror on the opposition faces over the course of the year. The stories are bound to become wilder and wilder the more desperate they become. I think they may have left it too late to change narrative. The only chance they have to appeal to the general electorate now is if they stand on street corners handing out tenners. 😀
@Scottish_Skier – Brilliant, even the wife laughed!
Something I meant to mention after watching Salmond’s speech yesterday. It is noticeable that the SNP are not really stating the consequences of a No vote in the referendum. Salmond did mention that the NHS in England is being privatised. However nothing was said about the consequences of a No vote for the NHS or the EU etc. The Yes campaign has a whole just says Westminster is not working. When does everyone thing they are going to bring up the consequences of a No vote? Why have they not done so already?
“Six weeks, in fact.”
Lookin’ forward to the same turnaround only not leaving it so late this time. Didn’t do the blood pressure any good at all in ’11. 🙂
I think that I spotted a resident of Cragy Island taking part in the demo against Moray councils funding of the arts. One of the placards stated “Down With This Kind of Thing”
The Herald is announcing the poll thus; “Indyref poll: gap narrows to 10 points, but women retreat “. “The times they are a changin'”.
Just thinking about all these SPAM texts folks are getting.
If my ever failing memory serves me right the NO campaign broke the rules in their gathering of peoples names,addresses,phone numbers. I seem to recall that they were NOT registered with the Information Commissioner at the time of their “gathering” information and, as member of the Information Commission was I believe reported to have said “they have broken the law.” I have not heard of any penalty being put upon the NO camp nor of any fine being imposed.
This was, in my view, a deliberate ploy by the NO camp to by pass the “rules of the game.” They were contacted on numerous occasions by the Information Commissioner BEFORE they announced the start of their campaign in order that they could register themselves correctly and they failed to do so. In fact I think the last contact the I.C. had with the NO camp was around two days before their launch and they still ignored the I.C. office.
Muttley79
Understood. However, there are dangers inherent in negative campaigning. For example, alienating the Don’t Know vote (who will be crucial). Why would an incumbent with a good track record and a positive vision for the future risk going down this path? Or alternatively, why should they, when the alternatives are fairly clear to most and becoming clearer by the week in a campaign that has 18 months to run? The consequences of No should not be ignored but I would imagine the balance has to be carefully struck by the Yes campaign with a predominantly positive focus. There’s along way to go yet so stay calm. Nothing to stop the likes of us highlighting the consequences (IMO) but not the campaign team proper. I think we’ve got enough to contend with at the moment re getting the positive message across to key sectors of the electorate while rebutting the likes of the media (thanks again Stuart et al for all you’re doing).
muttley79
I suppose it would be negative campaigning and wouldn’t serve the long termism angle they’re taking. Easy rebuttal would be just because WM is shit now, why break free forever? Needs to be about ability to make our own decisions rather than the urgent need to split because WM is populated by demons today.
The Herald is announcing the poll thus; “Indyref poll: gap narrows to 10 points, but women retreat “. “The times they are a changin’”.
I’m wondering whether the key to the low YES percentage for women lies in the “don’t knows”, which number almost twice as many as those of the men. I don’t believe the ladies are inherently more unionist; it’s perhaps just that they’re not yet engaged with the debate and have other priorities; they’re more pragmatic, knowing that there is still 18 months to go. I trust the default NO position will begin to shift as we near the referendum and the arguments take centre stage.
Curtice is possibly now beyond his expertise credibility tipping point whereby his appearances on the BBC are now a hindrance to the No campaigners. “Aw nae” is my response when he appears with his beebop style and tortuous reasonings “on the other hand..”.
Someone needs to advise him to speak sitting down. I get a bit seasick watching him bob back and forth as he talks whilst standing.
Mutley79
To mention the consequences of a NO vote is to acknowlwedge that such a thing could happen and offer a rod for their own back in the future. Also it introduces ‘negatives’ into their campaign. Better to concentrate on the ‘positives’ of a YES
Just watched Sturgeon at conference. If we remember one fact over the next 18 months, she says, and repeat it time and time again, it should be this: that for every one of the last 30 years Scotland has contributed more tax revenue per head of population than the whole of the UK did. That’s every year in good times and bad, in boom, recession, in times of high oil prices and low oil price. Every year.
That’ll do for me.
Alistair Darling commented on the polls and in general about AS laying out his plans for the next 18 months, using a critical tone ,then in typical hypocritical mode went on to explain Ed M and Balls would be laying out their case for the GE in 2015.
When an expert from the FT state you have an almost ‘papal ‘aura (I think was the term used ) you seriously begin to wonder If Andrew Neil IS handing out his Blue Nun on the road in .
I get the impression, like the media in England, AD needs to keep the RUK anti independence because if the alternative view of ‘a different way’ of running your Country was put to the electorate in RUK, it might really put the cat among the pidgeons.
Regarding women being more reluctant than men to vote for independence I wonder if some older ones might change their minds when they find out that Better Together Alistair Darling was divorced following his affair with a journalist.
My issue with John Curtis is that he holds a position of responsibility in the University of Strathclyde and as such carries the onerous burden of upholding the status of that University, yet time and again he is pronouncing on statistics, which, if not in themselves iffy concerning sources, are selected to be partial in balance and not representative of the actual picture.
When ‘experts’ are fielded by whichever organisation is paying for them, they are charged with desirable outcomes and it is too obviously the case that Professor Curtis is carrying that remit well.
In other words the BBC is stating the flavour and balance of any facts gathered and presented by their sub-contractors and broadcast.
I am not in the least surprised that Isabel Fraser is apparently less and less on our BBC screens during political broadcasts, which perhaps says a great deal about the efforts expended on BBC editorial policy and driven by John Boothman and co.
@ molly
Darling seems to be every southern metropolitan commentator’s favourite Scotsman, and as a public school educated ornament of the British establishment, it’s not hard to see why – good God, he’s almost house trained! I think an awful lot of faith is being put on him to carry the No vote, but aforementioned commentators fail to understand that Darling’s resonance with them is actually a negative for a lot of Scots.
John Curtice, Sep 03, 2010:
“The long honeymoon enjoyed by the Nationalists following their success in 2007 is now well and truly over.”
http://www.holyrood.com/2010/09/standing-up-for-scotland-2/
Intersting Curtice fact #1: John’s nasal hair is highly sought after by nest-building birds and sells for about £35 a kilo at chaffinch markets.
http://www.caledonianmercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/John-Curtice.jpg
If Curtice was my lecturer, I’d be seriously worried about my grades.
Muttley, the latest SNP ppb did nothing but point out the consequences of voting NO compared to what we can expect by voting YES.
@Holebender
Nicola’s speech was similar. Needs to be said I suppose. I believe the Tories want to cut £20bn off the English NHS. That means Barnett consequentials of £2bn which is 18% of the Scottish health budget. People need to know.
@Velofellow
”Aw Nae”…? With respect my dear Vello, what language was that?
Perhaps you meant ‘Aw naw!’ or ‘Och na!’, in which case I concur.
@ the rough bounds:its,,,eh,eh…Curticespeak!