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Keir Hardie’s grave

Posted on June 22, 2014 by

Reports seismic disturbance. (Again.)

Labour’s shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves angrily rejects Andrew Neil’s suggestion that the party isn’t determined to slash spending on the poorest and most vulnerable in society, and identifies £165m of extra welfare cuts (to be taken from the young and the elderly) that Labour are committed to, over and above the billions of pounds the coalition government has already cut from the state safety net and the billions more it plans to cut in the future.

(The Sunday Politics, 22 June 2014.)

Full interview here.

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  1. 22 06 14 15:19

    Keir Hardie’s grave | Scottish Independence News

  2. 02 07 14 17:05

    Britain 2015… alarm bells should be ringing «

  3. 25 08 14 21:48

    The high concept of democracy | The Science of Independence

294 to “Keir Hardie’s grave”

  1. galamcennalath says:

    Only one thing I can say …. Vote Yes and leave them to it!

  2. Grouse Beater says:

    Shoudn’t this topic be in the last one – about foreigners?

    The Labour party I knew twenty years ago is completely foreign to me know. It may as well be the Falkland’s Tea party for all the social democratic sense it holds to.

  3. Neil Craig says:

    Yeah, cos we can trust the SNP to raise spending and cut taxes. Well to promise to do it after the glorious day.

  4. R. Duncan says:

    Holy shit Stu

    That women is a train wreck waiting to happen. What a liar and hypocrite and well done Andrew Neil. (can i say that) for trying to get a answer from the stuttering cow.

    These people have positions of power over us . HOW ???

    Roll on Sept

  5. Hetty says:

    And amazing that some people are determined to believe their lies.
    Thing is they are immune to telling the truth and disgracefully unaccountable when the lies are exposed and their nasty policies impact so destructively on the lives of the poor, sick, old and vulnerable. True blue Labour, never to be trusted again. Keir Hardie would not be party to their right wing poiltics if he were around today.

  6. R. Duncan says:

    Neil Craig

    lets just get independence first and then you can comment on SNP policies AFTERWARDS.

    Your negativity and constant attacks on the SNP are boring the hell out of us. You deflect from the topic every time.


    Please give us all a break.

  7. Adrian B says:

    All of the Westminster parties are tied to creating a Privatised Health care system similar to the US model. Plans are well underway to allow foreign companies to profit from the HHS here. You only have to look at the list of MPs in Westminster who have interests in this area to see the direction of travel that this will take:

    Once it in Private care, then a two tier system will be the one that prevails. In the US care costs have gone through the roof as it is a money making system.

  8. galamcennalath says:

    @Adrian B

    Yes, and who would want to be like the US … Especially when it comes to healthcare!

    The US spends more than twice as much per capita as a typical Western European country and yet in the US half their population has either insufficient or no health insurance cover!

  9. Andy smith says:

    Unbelievable, this should be shown at every meeting between now and sept 18. This is the policy of the labour party that’s supposed to come riding to the rescue if we vote no.
    As for Mr sarwar, a future beckons as a used car salesman !
    ( apologies to all genuine used car salesmen).

  10. John grant says:

    Jesus what a weasel , labour are winning nothing soon let’s get the hell out of this asylum before it’s to late

  11. Murray McCallum says:

    Regards the benefit cuts to young people, I think OneNation Labour are sending the important message that people aged 12 at the time of the financial crisis must be punished for their contribution to the economic damage they caused.

  12. Tom Platt says:

    The amazing thing, to me, is that the programme clip consists of a Labour woman trying to insist, against the contrary claims of the programme presenter, that Labour support the austerity programmes more zealously than the Conservatives.

    After “Yes”, and the departure of SNP from Westminster, no party will be left there to help the food bank users in rUK. God help them!


  13. heedtracker says:

    Cutting welfare for young people to save what, the cost of the House of Lords, 1 eurofighter jet, one City spiv’s takehome pay, 1 Trident nuke missile with a union jack on the side, and they say the Daily Heil doesn’t write the script for teamGB policy wonks.

  14. msean says:

    I read somewhere that 45% of the welfare budget is pensions,(don’t remember where),if any of these cuts that are coming down the line from any future uk government,I’m sure that once everything else has been gutted out,pensions will surely be next.

    I can’t see a cuts driven government leaving that 45% alone,no way.

  15. DAvid Anderson says:

    Andy Smith…

    Thon Anas is a newly employed bus conductor, gorra give him a chance to mess that up first 🙂

  16. thegooseking says:

    The more people living destitute, the less people are buying (because they can’t afford it). The less people are buying, the fewer jobs there are. The fewer jobs there are, the more people are living destitute.

    I can sort of understand both Tories and Labour wanting to cut spending to stop the national debt from rising. But I don’t understand how anyone with the most basic grasp of economics under their belt can think that reducing people’s spending power would be good for the economy.

  17. mary vasey says:

    I would have that by now ‘ Labour ‘ would have realized they have no chance of ever beating the Tories. Has it not occured to any of them that they may have a chance IF they returned to being a socialist party. But of course they don’t do common sense do they.

  18. mary vasey says:

    I would have thought. Sorry

  19. heedtracker says:

    But poverty and destitution forces down pay rise demands, so if you’re a big employer, low wages, cowed work force, bigger profits syphoned abroad through City tax evasion accountants and it’s all good.

  20. Marcia says:

    R. Duncan


  21. Brotyboy says:

    @ R. Duncan


  22. Camz says:

    It’s a sad situation where politicians probably prepare for these programs by anticipating the problem questions, and how to dodge / spin them.

    Proper politicians would turn up, take the questions and make their best sell to the public based on their policies and principles*.

    * Are principled politicians in the 21st century wishful thinking?

  23. Paula Rose says:

    @ Camz – at Westminster yes.

  24. Andrew says:

    Hi folks,

    I’m not trying to hijack this thread so apologies in advance if anyone is offended. But – any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?

    We’re still a wee bit short and your extraordinary generosity will make a difference as it has in the past for so many other similar worthy causes.

  25. thegooseking says:


    Even employers need a market who actually has money to sell to in order to make those profits it’s going to dodge taxes on. Destitution of employees might look good to them, but destitution of customers sure doesn’t.

  26. Clootie says:

    On cuts…”We are going to go further than the government”
    Labour is proud of a policy that goes FURTHER than a Tory government.

    Earlier on the politics show stairheid rammy was forced to concede that the family of a difficult “child” between 18 and 21 who refused further education would have to keep because they would not receive ANY support if they refused the training option. The poorest families hit again because wealthier families will not get anything any way.

    This lot are making New Labour look like communists!

  27. DaveDee says:


    Third time lucky … Labour peer finally gets it right about who paid for Reid ad

    THE millionaire Labour peer Willie Haughey has entered the referendum debate with the creation of a campaign group called Faith in the Union.


  28. muttley79 says:

    Willie Haughey must be a diehard SLAB unionist if he has an ermine coat.

  29. Neil Craig says:

    “R. Duncan says:

    22 June, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    Neil Craig

    lets just get independence first and then you can comment on SNP policies AFTERWARDS”

    Is that really the level of discussion with which the Yes campaign hope to persuade intelligent human beings.

    “Bur mein Fuhrer, you told us not to mention the problems in invading Russia till after it was over”

  30. msean says:

    Watching the Sunday Politics recording,I’m beginning to wonder if Labour have been infiltrated by the Tories,they sound so alike.

  31. Clootie says:

    Given the biggest slice of welfare spending is pensions then I thinks means tested state pensions will be coming in the next few years. If you have a company or private pension then expect at least a cut in your state pension.

  32. Clootie says:

    Looks like we have a troll who thinks this is a SNP site.
    The concept of a united YES camp seems to baffle them.

    We can only have a discussion on fair options and how to achieve them AFTER a YES vote.

  33. You and My Comb says:

    Neil Craig

    Which party will you vote for in an independent Scotland? Obviously, Britain First, the BNP and UKIP won’t be relevant.

  34. TJenny says:

    Neil Craig – Oh, please. Invoking Godwin’s Law – you lose. Gies pieace, FGS.

  35. Paula Rose says:

    Neil darling, U kip if you want to, the rest of us are wide awake.

  36. Lockie says:

    Would all Scottish citizens make there way to the life boats, it’s time to get off & leave them to it.

  37. Les Wilson says:

    She is an example of just how bare in talent, labour is!

  38. Robert Craig says:

    Paula Rose – magic!

  39. Stuart Black says:

    “Bur mein Fuhrer, you told us not to mention the problems in invading Russia till after it was over”

    Says the chap who also says this:

    “Is that really the level of discussion with which the Yes campaign hope to persuade intelligent human beings.


  40. msean says:

    Can’t believe they still stick to the dictator insults,it works great for yes I think.Voters aren’t stupid you know,they elected the SNP while dumping the Labour party and not trusting the others fully.

  41. David Agnew says:

    The not so strange death of new labour.

    In trying to triangulate the floating right wing vote, labour have allowed themselves to be captured by it. By going around saying how much worse than the Tories UKlab will be, they are actually making Cameron, Osborne and all the others look positively moderate. This is turn gives no one else who don’t want to see the Tories in power, a reason to vote labour.

    Real life has started to mimic the satire. The choice for the UK in 2015 will be a vote for Team Evil and Team Stupid. I hope to God that Scotland has seen sense and gotten the hell out of there. We really don’t want to be around for the collapse of the UK post 2015.

  42. TJenny says:

    Paula Rose – is the Quip Queen. 🙂

  43. thegooseking says:

    @Neil Craig

    I don’t want to just echo everyone else. How the SNP plans to approach spending and taxes is important, but it’s not important to the question of independence. The things are on two separate scales. The SNP’s plans are important in the short term; independence is a long-term question.

  44. gerry parker says:

    @Stuart Black.
    Ah – skewered troll, I’ll light up the barbie.


  45. Bob Sinclair says:

    Right, thats it, lets give Neil C the cold shooder, getting really fwd up with his P**h and the nazi refwrence is one insult too far.

  46. Edmund says:

    This is the same Rachel Reeves who said recently:

    “Our very raison d’etre will be threatened if the working people, who the Labour Party have got to be there for, and got to be a voice for, start to drift away because they don’t see us as the answer.”

    Does she really think that supporting Tory cuts is going to win back working people who have deserted Labour?

    Their only electoral strategy is to lurch ever farther to the right. I wouldn’t vote Labour if you paid me.

  47. Dick Gaughan says:

    Neil Craig says:
    “Bur mein Fuhrer, you told us not to mention the problems in invading Russia till after it was over”

    Ding! Ding!

    Game Over – Sorry, you lose.

    [ Play Again / Quit / Return to Base ]

  48. Capella says:

    “All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.” (Adam Smith “Wealth of Nations”)

  49. wingman 2020 says:

    It is long past time to reframe what Independence is actually about.

    People need to understand that Independence is a battle of fairness and equality. It is a battle between the rich and the poor.

    Independence is not about NATO, EU, Currency, Pensions, Borders, Tax Powers or Oil.

    It’s a simple matter of do Scotland continue to accept a disproportionate burden of the effects of economic incompetence in Westminster?

    Westminster (Thatcher and Blair) deregulated the banks and caused disaster in this gold plated industry. Simultaneously they used Oil revenue to crush the traditional industries, leaving the regions with nothing but generational unemployment and welfare.

    The money didn’t disappear. It was shifted to the right and to the pockets of financiers regardless of what type of business practices they indulged in.

    The gap between the Rich and the Poor widened through the Thatcher and Blair years.

    Now Westminster wants to continue to take more money from the poorest sections of society, to try to balance the books that were screwed by the banks.

    Thatcher, Blair, Brown and Darling were not only complicit but incompetent when it came to managing UK plc.

    Cameron, Milliband and Clegg are way out of their depth. They will implement policies that favour the south. Most votes are gained there.

    So while all the Londoner Luvvies like Boris think that the jam should go to London and will gradually spread out… people in the regions are coming under increasing pressure.

    Most are two or three months salary away from disaster.

    Fairness and equality…. this is something residents of Scotland can work with and build on. We cannot build or improve on the manifesto promises and lies that spill so easily from the mouths of the careerist MPs at Westminster.

    I’d rather be poor and have the knowledge that our effort was raising Scotland back up… then be conned by false promises and political chicanery by a Westminster crew who are interested only in London and the South East.

    Westminster doesn’t work for Scotland, because they don’t care about the 10% of the people in the North on less than UK average salaries. They care about keeping the London machine globally strong and their own incomes robust in the South East.

    These videos are old. But they remind us all what is really behind the fight for independence. They cannot afford to lose Scotland. They cannot afford to admit it.

    The country was shafted by Westminster incompetence and the regions bore the brunt.
    This is not much different to the King in the old days, squeezing the hard pressed peasants for more tax.

    Residents of Scotland have suffered under the Labour Party’s local political mismanagement. No one has stepped up to say enough Westminster. ‘You are ruining our country’

    And make no mistake, thats whats being done. Scotland is in a very recognisable downward spiral overall. We suffering massive poverty and unacceptable economic migration.

    Our talent flows out. And retirees flow in.

    The population of England and Wales combined almost doubled from 16.8 million in 1851 to 30.5 million in 1901

    Scotland’s population also rose rapidly, from 2.8 million in 1851 to 4.4 million in 1901

    Except, now Scotland remains at 5.2 million some 114 years later, while England and Wales is 56.1 million.

    Our country is being asset stripped by Westminster power brokers.

    So people, this Referendum is not about the finer details of politics and economics (despite their importance to everyone) This referendum is about the opportunity to decide how to build a fairer society.

    Do we want to cure this illness that is wasting the heart, soul and being of Scotland…. Or do we think its easier to simply lie down and die.

    There is no place in Scotland’s future for:

    – Heat or Eat decisions for pensioners
    – Foodbanks
    – Privatised NHS
    – Further Austerity in a country awash with poverty
    – Our people dying on average 12 years earlier?

    The only people who can accept this:

    -are the MPs protecting their status and remuneration (and they are pretending to themselves that they are going it to care for Scotland)

    – are the independently wealthy, who simply don’t want things to change.

    It is time to drive this ‘Fairness and Justice’ stake much further and harder into the cold heart of Westminster politics. This Westminster Vampire has sucked Scotland’s blood for far too long and we have stood by and accepted it. Why?

    You tell me?!

  50. R. Duncan says:


    I take it you think i’m a natzi. I don’t think i am , hang on i’ll check……… NOPE

    Who the hell is the Fuhrer ? Adolph is deid. I wasn’t quite born so can’t make the jump there.I WAS a soldier for 15 years. But my uniform wasn’t greyish . I helped protect this country , you arrogant little man, so that the freedoms you take for granted are there.

    More distraction .


    ok i get it your a troll.

    Sorry everyone i will ignore him now. No more .

    Just popped on to see if anyone knows if the news are covering the 50,000 marching in London against austerity. I would be surprised (but not really) if the MSM ignored it. 50,000 folk is a big group. Not exactly a positive message to NO voters when our English/Welsh cousins are protesting about Westminster austerity policies.

    Are we seeing the rUk finally raising their voices. We have seen very little of how the rUK feels on policies, only the drivel over Inde.

    My grand dad said during the protest when he was a lad socialist and the Jarrow marchers sung “Scot wha hae ” As it inspired them to raise there voices in solidarity against conditions they lived in. Maybe some one knows more, i ‘d be interested to hear. But it wont change my vote.

    maybe the YES campaign has been the spark needed to get their fire going.

    I hope so . We have an option and drive for change. Over the border it’s all blame everyone else (immigrants, disabled, the poor ,the EU) for their problems. But we;re trying to change that including blaming everyone else and doing something positive to change how we are governed.

    There’s hope yet for our British cousins .Well done to them. And about time too.

  51. Chris Silver says:

    The insistance of we voted with the government and would go further. Sadly Labour are so frightened of being tagged the welfare party they have lost the perspective of fairness. Look at how all the Labour MP’s disappeared like snow off a dyke during the debates into the bedroom tax and other issues relating to reform.
    The concern is to regain power at all costs not altering the course of a tail spin to the bottom thanks to the neoliberal ethos. we are oblivious to how changes have already altered beyond all recognition and there is no appetite politically to veer in a different direction.

    Yesterdays anti-austerity march and the omission of the event on the BBC is evidence of a state thats determined to control and circumvent any alternative political view and all the unionist parties having willingly participated.

  52. john j says:

    Where oh where has the Labour Party gone? This sorry apology for a socialist party is now trying to out Tory the Tories. If it wasn’t so bloody tragic it would make you laugh.

  53. cynicalHighlander says:

    A great description of nationalism.

  54. wingman 2020 says:

    This is a test

  55. TJenny says:

    wingman 2020 – did we pass? 🙂

  56. TD says:

    We need to understand where Labour are coming from in order to beat them electorally. Above all, they want to win power in the UK. Most people in the UK support right wing policies – unpalatable but true. So to gain power, Labour need to put forward right wing policies and out austeritise (is that a word?) the Tories. They also like the boost that Scotland gives to their numbers at Westminster. So of course they oppose independence – if we vote Yes, it will not be impossible for them to win in rUK, but it will be much more difficult.

    They think that any strategy other than the one they are following will doom them to electoral failure in rUK / UK. But there is a flaw – their current strategy will doom them to failure as well! Many previous Labour voters in Scotland will not forgive them for their lies and dirty tactics – just as many previous Lib Dem voters will not forgive them. And those who favour the right wing policies will be more likely to vote Tory / UKIP. Labour are going to be squeezed out of the running in the UK and will be an also ran in Scotland. The only way they could restore their electoral fortunes would be to acquire some integrity and adopt some intelligent, principled policies. Clearly that is not going to happend so we will get a Tory / UKIP coalition. I only hope that we are in the departure lounge of the UK by that time.

    We must all get the message out there that voting No means getting either a Tory majority government or a Tory / UKIP coalition running Scotland. Polls show that when people understand that, they swing to Yes.

  57. wingman 2020 says:

    Stu… My previous post didn’t make it… It must have gotten bayonetted in no mans land.. It was rather long… was that the problem?

    Or was it my obvious disdain for the Westminster establishment that caused it to be shot down by GCHQ message exocets?

  58. wingman 2020 says:


    We will know how many residents of Scotland passed the test on the 19th Septenber

  59. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Wingman, nobody has been able to figure out why some posts vanish into the spam filter.

    If you lost a long post, email Stu and he might be able to recover it for you.

  60. wingman 2020 says:


    It was anti-establishment.

    Does GCHQ have bots that vaporise radical emails before they reach the masses? 🙂

  61. TJenny says:

    wingman 2020 – where do some of pur posts go without any obvious reason, think sqillions of incoming spam + ongoing DOS attacks and then think QI where they give the panelists a ‘? Nobody Knows ?’ card.

  62. Helena Brown says:

    The Labour Party lost it’s soul a long time ago and I fear it will never recover it. It has been well infiltrated by the right wing, those who would never quite fit in with the Tories. I remember some woman, might be the same one during the Blair years talking about utilizing the assets of the elderly, seems they still are no better.
    Neil Craig, I am a member of the SNP but let me say as far as Independence is concerned right now I am here on Wings, I believe in what we are doing and I certainly will not let my Party affiliation get in the road. Now do what the rest have said and get out of here. No idea why you are here, none of us will support Ukip, it is as bad as when I go and argue on the Guardian etc, a pointless thing to do.

  63. Papadox says:

    The more you see and hear from the Labours Party the worse it gets, they are fighting with the tories to see who can become more right wing.

    Wee SLAB is like the runt of the labour litter, chasing after the big pups. Don’t know where they are going to, don’t know why their following the London pack. It’s just what they have always done, and it’s worked fine up till now, and you get a reward at the end of it.

    They get to play with the bone once the bigger pups are finished with it.

  64. Mike says:

    And we all know they abstained on a vote to abolish the bedroom tax.

  65. Paula Rose says:

    Actually I thought more people voted for parties that they thought were not tories – so a preference for the right-wing is not true.

  66. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Wingman, there is no evidence whatsoever that the security services are taking the trouble to interfere with posts on Wings containing certain key words or phrases – which is what it would have to be, for a post to vanish without appearing at all, as the norm is for instant posting.

    There is plenty evidence that the Akismet spam filter sometimes misidentifies a particular post as spam and refuses to post it. It has happened to a lot of people. The posts are in the spam filter and Stu can retrieve them. Email him.

  67. Michael McCabe says:

    Over on Newsnet Scotland Lawyers for Yes have come out. Welcome Aboard.

  68. Andy-B says:

    Hasn’t Ed Miliband already stated that Labour, will cut welfare and public spending even deeper than the Tories are now, I think the figure was around £25 billion quid, still to chopped. So we know what to expect from Labour.

    A no vote even if Labour wins in 2015 will be like, leaping from the frying pan, into the fire. Only a yes vote presents hope for Scotland.

  69. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    The BBC where Thatcherite shall speak unto Thatcherite.

    Remember, your License fee money pays for this ‘balance’.

  70. Andy-B says:

    The chances of Ed Miliband becoming PM are incredibly low, as his stock in a series of polls shows he’s way less popular than David Cameron, Miliband’s possible successor touted as leader of the Labour party, Chuka Umunna, said we all behind Ed, a sure sign Miliband’s days are numbered.

  71. TD says:

    Paula Rose
    First, I was talking about and said “…in the UK”.

    Second, I know you cannot assume that people who vote for a party support all of that party’s policies, but if we do make that assumption for the moment, then on the right we have the Tories, UKIP, the Lib Dems, the BNP, the English Defence League and now of course Labour. If we add up all of the people who voted for them, then I think we can reasonably safely say that a majority of people in the UK support right wing policies – even after allowing for people who dissent from specific policies of the party they vote for.

  72. Paula Rose says:

    TD – at the last general election I’m not convinced that the electorate thought of them as all being right wing.

  73. annie says:

    50000 protesting against austerity and MSM have refused to report it. Could this be the reason for Boris’s water canons. If folk are protesting now there will be more when the real cuts start biting.

  74. Peter says:

    Has terry kelly made any comment on this? I recall him denying that labour and tories are the same. Repeatedly with added kens!

  75. Boorach says:

    @ Michael McCabe

    Did you notice if Mike Daily was among them?

  76. TD says:

    Paula Rose
    I agree – particularly in respect of the Lib Dems and Labour at the last general election. But if we take the European elections last month, what excuse is there for people not knowing that the Lib Dems and Labour have gone right wing? You just have to look at what the Lib Dems have been party to in government and listen to what Labour are saying.

    Having said that, who knows what is in people’s mind when they vote? I am told that some people vote SNP, but are No voters in this referendum! And even that some Tories support independence.

    There is no accounting for people’s voting habits.

  77. Andy-B says:


    Prince William receives £6.5 million pound helicopter from the Queen, as a birthday present. The money to purchase the expensive gift comes from a “sovereign grant”, which is a sum of money paid to the royals by the Westminster government, ergo its more than likely its taxpayers cash.

    Yet Westminster are hinting to the Trussell Trust, to keep their mouths shut about the extent of poor and hungry in the UK today, we must break free of Westminster, and the royals, think of the money we’ll save.

  78. Clootie says:

    Missing posts – Buddha would ask “…is an unread post still a post?”

  79. JGedd says:

    Don’t talk to me about voting in the referendum. Just back from canvassing in Dumfries as part of RIC’s mass canvass. Oh dear. Just don’t ask.

  80. wingman 2020 says:


    I was speaking in jest.. I am sure GCHQ would not be interested in my witterings LOL 🙂
    But thanks for the advice.

    Stu…. Please rescue my post? I am sure it was worth saving.

  81. TD says:

    You can’t leave it like that! I will ask – what happened?

  82. Clootie says:


    Prince William gets a 6.5million pound toy and Maryhill food bank centre has to pay a full rent of 6,000pounds for their premises.

    What wealth gap?

  83. annie says:

    JGedd, keep your chin up, if I remember right I think they voted against devolution and we still got it.

  84. Neil Craig says:

    Whether the first government of an independent Scotland would be idiots who would bankrupt the place (as, if their promises are to be taken seriously both SNO & Labour are) is a matter of some importance.

    That the “nationalists” here care so little for the wellbeing of the country as to pretend it doesn’t and deliberately encourage national bankruptcy shows how sincere their “patriotism” is.

    Reinforced by the use of obscenity to suppress discussion on the other thread.

  85. Mary Bruce says:

    JGedd: Don’t worry too much about Dumfries & Galloway, we’re only 3% of the Scottish population. Not to mention the biggest concentration of retired people in Scotland, they are the biggest no demographic by far.

    There’s loads of ignorance too: “I don’t want to have to take my passport to Carlisle when I go shopping.”

    Do you know about the Yestival event in Sanquhar on the 2nd July?

  86. Paula Rose says:

    @ Wingman – frustrating indeed, considering some of the comments that do appear 😉

  87. Taranaich says:

    This must be spread far and wide to all those who are still labouring under the mistaken impression that Labour will fix anything the Tories did – they don’t even want to.

  88. Donald says:

    Get this link sent to every pensioner, every member of every golf club, bowling club, etc. you know. Vote No and lose your winter fuel allowance. Vote Yes and keep it.

  89. Paula Rose says:

    If Little Britain votes to leave the EU then we would need passports to go shopping in Carlisle and probably a visa 😉

  90. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Sorry Wingman, I didn’t see the tongue in the cheek. Stu doesn’t read all the comments. He might not see a plea posted in the thread. Email him and tell him which thread and approximately what time it was posted.

  91. Michael McCabe says:

    @Boorach Lawyers for Yes. Over One Hundred Legal Experts. Hence no mention of Mike Daily among them.

  92. caz-m says:


    Do you know when the National results of today’s mass canvass will be announced?

  93. cynicalHighlander says:

    Are those lawyers going to go on the list?

  94. AyeAlba says:

    The only place I saw anything about the 50,000 marchers against austerity was over on RT

  95. Andy-B says:

    Blair McDougall complaining to the Electoral Commission because the YES camp are better organised, McDougall also reported a YES convention in Stirling yesterday to the Electoral Commission, for what reason none other than they’re well organised, McDougall also reported Christians for Independence to the Electoral Commission.

    I wonder if there’s anyone one for independence he didn’t report to the Electoral Commission.

  96. TD says:

    Neil Craig
    You seem to be suggesting that any policies other than the simplistic right wing austerity policies of the current (and probably future) UK goverment will lead to bankruptcy in an independent Scotland. This is just not correct.

    First, by not subsidising the UK, Scotland would have more cash available.

    Second, when we do spend money on essential services or back-office functions, that money will be spent in Scotland and will provide a stimulus to the Scottish economy. If we take defence expenditure as an example, Scotland’s share of the UK’s defence bill is £3.5 billion per annum. By eliminating Trident and other inappropriate expenditures, the SNP propose to spend just £2.5 billion per annum. But most of that money will be spent in Scotland – unlike at present where most of the money is spent South of the border and in the SE of England in particular. The removal of Trident will undoubtedly cost some jobs, but we will gain more than we lose by spending the money in Scotland. The same principle applies to all government departments and Scotland will benefit from a significant uplift in economic activity when those departments are created in Scotland.

    Third, I could go on about Keynsian economic theory versus the Thatcherite monetarism that those favouring austerity seem to support. But that would be too dry for a Sunday afternoon.

  97. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    Just in from a lovely community day here in my new home in the Kingdom (might need a new name now that I am no longer in Aberdeen.) Haven’t read the above comments, but I don’t doubt that most of the comments are similar to mine. Keir Hardie would be birling in his grave.

    Labour supporters and activists seriously need to wake up. It took me long enough but got there in the end. Socialists do not support policies that New Labour espouse. You are kidding yourselves.

  98. caz-m says:

    Did anyone see Mags Curran evade answering Brewer’s question on Sunday Politcs, about the young unemployed who will NOT get paid if they don’t take up the Labour Party offer of training.

    Their just gonnea luv Mags in the East End of Glasgow.
    Add to that the ATOS back to work test for disabled unemployed, that just about sums up the Labour Party welfare policy.

    And how can Labour call it Universal Credit, when Scotland has to have a separate Housing Benefit payment.

    Unless their telling us porkies.

    The Labour Party are just an utter mess. Their policies are all over the place.

  99. Paula Rose says:

    @ TD – I love a dry Sunday afternoon.

  100. Black Douglas says:

    The Labour party are trying to fight a war on two fronts, history tells us they will lose both.

  101. wingman 2020 says:


    I would email him… but my wingman email stopped working!! 🙂

  102. caz-m says:

    Robyn – Quine fae Torry

    Wishing you all the best in your new home.

    I remember the first day you joined Wings.

    Haven’t heard from you for a wee while, and I am sure the good people of Fife will look after you.

  103. Adrian B says:

    Reinforced by the use of obscenity to suppress discussion on the other thread.

    See here for more indignation:

  104. Famous15 says:

    Trolls do not share your goals.They pretend to but really that is just to suck you in.They are like sheep mites.The spread a little soothing spit and then suck your blood till you weaken. As they depart theyalwaysleave alittle present of disease . DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

  105. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    @Caz-m been busy with the move! In a nice wee village now which is full of nice folk. Good community spirit and all actively (ie f*** off Cameron, we don’t need your instruction a la the Big Society) involved in making it a good place to live. Aberdeen was fine but this is my home and the good folk of Fife have already made me feel very welcome, although I cannot persuade any of them that I was born and brought up in Fife: I speak the Doric now like an Aberdonian, apparently!

  106. manandboy says:

    Alex Salmond agrees to a debate on stv with A Darling.

    Mistake. Let’s Cameron off the hook.

  107. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Robyn – Wondered what you had been doing and Aberdeen is a greyer place without you. Enjoy Fife, its mah birthplace too.

  108. TJenny says:

    manandboy – I’ll be very surprised if this AS v AD debate goes ahead. What would AD expect to gain from this – he will be toast. Expect some weaseling excuse for non appearance of said AD in any debate.

    Can you imagine AS being given carte blanche to expose AD’s house flipping and general lying to the viewers – if it does come to pass – watch the YES vote increase – but, I for one, wont be holding my breath for this ‘slaughter of the guilty’ taking place in full view of any cameras/broadcasters.

  109. TheItalianJob says:


    Curran is so BirtLabour toe party line I can’t bear listening to her rhetoric when discussing Independence, rants on SNP etc.

  110. west_lothian_questioner says:

    The Beeb says it’s “confirmed.”

    One floor wiping coming right up…

  111. ticktock says:

    J Gedd @ 5.31

    Can’t help but notice that all your posts, that I’ve seen anyway, here and on Bella, are all very pessimistic, ie the other day on Bella : “most” students in Inverness going to vote no. Etc.

  112. west_lothian_questioner says:

    Sorry folks.. omitted to say my prev. post is in ref to the Eck v Flipper televised floor wiping…

  113. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    @Archie – I’m still back and forward between the 2. Got good memories and chums from the ‘deen. Will always have high regard for the Granite City.

  114. cynicalHighlander says:

    @manandboy says:

    Alex Salmond agrees to a debate on stv with A Darling.

    Mistake. Let’s Cameron off the hook.

    I was of that sentiment but thinking on it now it’s a great scoop for STV and puts two fingers up to the beeb and lets face it Cameron would never debate anyway.

    This frees Alex up to show Tory or Labour as both sides of the same coin.

  115. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Robyn – Quine fae Torry

    moved from abetdeen 5 years ago, all speak the doric, kids at school think my son is a teuchter

    if yer in the NEF!/yesnef?fref=ts

    you would be welcome

  116. Marcia says:


    He should have come to Dundee instead. A friend telephoned me to say it was a very good day for canvassing and the feedback on the doorsteps was very encouraging indeed.

  117. galamcennalath says:

    There should be some debating on TV but the NaeSayers are bound to have difficulty finding someone to commit public political suicide! The individual trying to sell the Union has to be daft or accept they have no political future. And, Darling fits both categories.

    Come to think of it, most NaeSaying politicians who have stuck their heads above the parapet know they don’t have a future. They’re finished in Scotland if the vote goes either way, and rUK won’t want them if it’s Yes.

  118. john king says:

    Paula Rose says
    “If Little Britain votes to leave the EU then we would need passports to go shopping in Carlisle and probably a visa”

    Dinna furget the booster jags fur beri beri and blackwater fever!

  119. Dan Huil says:

    Tory,labour,Libdem: they’re all the same. They’ve morphed into one disgusting congealed mass greedily growing into a selfish narrow-minded glob intent on suffocating the life out of the poor and disadvantaged.
    Thank God we in Scotland have an opportunity to escaped its stinking edacity.
    Vote Yes.

  120. John H. says:

    Alex Salmond agrees to a debate on stv with A Darling.

    I hope the format is different from the other debates STV organised.It would be nice to hear each of them state his case uninterrupted.

  121. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    He should have come to Dundee instead. A friend telephoned me to say it was a very good day for canvassing and the feedback on the doorsteps was very encouraging indeed.

    Don’t wave aside people who have had negative canvassing experiences. These happen. Dumfries is not good territory for Yes. And it has to be canvassed with the rest. Not much use fooling ourselves by only canvassing in the good areas.

    Don’t shoot the messenger.

  122. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    i used tae bide in torry
    menzies road
    locals in the Rats and the okay dokay karaoke “grumpian” didnt like me calling it mingis rd

  123. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Where about in Fife?

    I used to live in Freuchie for a number of years and my ex still there. My married daughter has bought a house there too.

    Howe is a lovely area.

  124. Marcia says:

    If there is to be live television debate, the rules of the debate should be made open to the public to decide. I would hope it is what the viewers want to see and not what the television executives or campaign groups want. It should certainly be better if it was in the format of the SNP debate on NATO. Also no studio audience – equal number of questions from each side and equal time.

  125. My grandfather will also be spinning in his grave. This woman is no more representative of the Labour ethos than I am George Clooney. Vote No for her Neoliberal bullshit. Vote Yes for real Labour values.

  126. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Radio 3 currently broadcasting a deconstruction of Bannockburn. Probably historically defensible, but the not-so-hidden agenda is pretty clear.

  127. JGedd says:

    @TD, @caz-m, @Mary Bruce, @ Annie

    Feel better now. Came back like roast pork with crackling after trudging round in the sun but cooled down now in more ways than one; nice gin and tonic, feet up. So feel more sanguine about the whole thing.

    Actually it was my first time canvassing and I will certainly be doing it again – this coming week in fact. Most of the time people were actually away, it was such a lovely day. And we actually got two and a half households from our particular patch who were definite Yes voters and knew their stuff.

    Everything was very well-organized by RIC and we were split into teams and given certain roads. On reflection it was much what I had expected from Dumfries with slightly more flat Nos than definite Yes responses and one door slammed in our faces after the usual, ” Alec Salmond is a liar. Been proved over and over again…etc.”

    Don’t know when the results of the mass canvas will be released. Don’t even know what the results are from our canvas yet since everyone wasn’t back yet when we left. I’ll find out.

    Wasn’t so bad I suppose, it’s just that the part of Dumfries we canvassed today could benefit greatly in an independent Scotland. I get the feeling that in this part of the world there is, for some, weak identification with Scotland. I’m talking about born and bred Gallovidians. It might even be historic in origin.

  128. Schrodinger's Cat says:


    im running the howe yes group (NEF) panda(my self and a few other stalwarts)

    i was canvasing/leafleting there last week

    we could do with a hand,

  129. galamcennalath says:

    From Bella

    I think the last paragraph is incredibly spot on ….

    “Did Better Together really believe that in the referendum there was nothing to discuss? Did they really believe everything would continue as before, even if they won? Did they really believe post-Credit Crunch, post-bank failures, post-Iraq, post-phone-hacking, post-Lawrence, post-Saville, post-Hillsborough, post-misselling, post-mutual-fund elimination, post-tax-avoidance, post-£1.4 Trillion debt, post-UKIP, post-pay-day-loans of 4,000% APR, post-austerity cuts, post-property-bubble, post-spare-room tax, post-zero-hour contracts, post-Plebgate, post-MPs expenses: that the UK, the Union is the best of all possible worlds, the best of both worlds, or least probable of all –the best that life could offer, or the fairest our society could aspire to be?”

  130. Marcia says:


    We have our own pockets that can be dispiriting at times to our canvassers.

  131. caz-m says:


    Watching Gary Liniker on the World Cup programme, it’s like watching someone who has just been told that everybody is heading to a party after the dancin’, except you. You are going home mate coz nobody wants you to go to the party.


    Just sayin’.

  132. Paula Rose says:

    John King dear, that is the sort of scare story we may well see being deployed by the Better Tory crowd! Vote No or you will need inoculations to travel south.

  133. Kirsty says:


    I think it’s a good thing. We’d be waiting forever for Cameron to put his big girl pants on and actually debate with the FM so it’s better to at least debate with someone and get the message out there on MSM TV. Darling has shown that he has no real argument for retaining the union other than he says so (sure, we’ve been begging him to give us a positive argument for the union for donkeys and are still waiting) so I think it will be a good thing for us.

    Also, it’s going to make it a bit harder for Cameron to keep delaying as he won’t be able to hide behind the “Darling is the leader of the no side; Salmond should debate with him first” argument.

  134. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat

    I live in France now so, sorry I can’t help you out.

    I wish I could.

  135. handclapping says:

    @John King
    If you’re so posh to eat white rice you deserve to get beriberi. Its the Carlisle folk as would need inoculation from me, I’m a plasmodium falciparum carrier. 🙂

    Do you really want me in Ed on the 4th? 😉

  136. Paula Rose says:

    @ handclapping – oo could be dangerous all those cybergnats and what have you, best put a sign up saying “desist from biting”.

  137. caz-m says:

    Regarding the price of start-up costs for an Independent Scotland, well the LSE says it will cost about £200Million,

    or the same price as TWO fighter jets for their new aircraft carriers.

    As someone has already mentioned, the London Olympics cost us £9Billion, and that was for a fortnight of sport.

  138. goldenayr says:


    Don’t bother wi’ John.

    Y’never read his resume of nightime posts of a weekend morn?

  139. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    Am in West Wemyss now, just to the east of Kirkcaldy. Freuchie is lovely though, as is Falkland, and the Howe. I did look in that area and there were some lovely houses but the seaside always draws me to it. West Wemyss is an historic and interesting wee place which was left to rot; half the village was boarded up at one point until the early 2000s. But the community have rallied and brought it back from the dead with help from the Lottery Fund.

    There is a cafe and a pub staffed entirely by volunteers (including me). So if any of you are out for a walk along the Coastal Path, come in by, Weds-Sun. Sorry, shameless plug there. smiley winky face.

  140. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ John King

    You have residual Malaria?

  141. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Handclapping not John King.

  142. Paula Rose says:

    Robyn etc – is that the place with the remarkable caves? Haven’t visited them for some time, now got an extra reason to do so.

  143. Minty says:

    Happy to see my Twitter feed full of photos from a very sunny mass canvass across Scotland. Well done to anyone who was out.

    Also amusing story being tweeted about BT canvass being cancelled when only two foot soldiers turned up. Bad luck, lads…

  144. muttley79 says:


    Alex Salmond agrees to a debate on stv with A Darling.

    Mistake. Let’s Cameron off the hook.

    Why is it a mistake? There is less than 100 days to go till the referendum, and it is obvious Cameron is not going to debate with Salmond. He knows Salmond would win, and he also wants to distance himself if there is a Yes vote. If there is a No vote Cameron will take the credit.

  145. caz-m says:


    Has anyone ever saw Johann Lamont and Angela Merkel in the same room at the same time?

  146. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    The whole coast from Kirkcaldy to Buckhaven is remarkable.

    Check the link out if you are interested in Pictish art, etc.

  147. Paula Rose says:

    That’ll be part of the homogenised culture of the UK then, Robyn?

  148. JGedd says:

    @ticktock 6.41pm

    Just noticed your comment. I’m sorry if I come over as pessimistic and I’m slightly gratified that you have read any of my comments. I AM pessimistic – it’s just the way I am. Some people are half-glass-full sorts and I am a half-glass-empty-with-someone’s-fagend-in-it type. Both types rarely get along.

    I hope that you weren’t suggesting something sinister in the fact that I don’t sing from your hymn sheet? I never did like being told to act or write in a particular way or play to the gallery and that kind of insinuating comment makes my hackles rise.

    I always write the truth as I experience it and the Tibetan student’s reaction to the No voters was, I thought, salutary. I also try not to make personal remarks about other people who comment, by the way.

    Morag is right, this is not fertile territory for the Yes vote and it is much more daunting to have to canvass where you will encounter negativity than where there are happy punters rewarding your efforts with affirmative responses.

    And Marcia,you got the gender wrong. Sorry.

  149. Yongibongi says:

    That’s just fucking disgusting. rUK goes to hell in a handbasket

  150. Jeannie says:


    Re the start-up costs of IT in an independent Scotland, Prof. Dunleavy also reminded viewers that the UK government will shortly have to upgrade its own IT system. I wish Brewer had asked Margaret Curran to absolutely, specifically give an exact figure for what Scotland’s share of that particular bill would be. Then we could subtract it from the projected start-up costs to get a real figure for what it will cost up here.

    He also pointed out that it should be seen less as a start-up cost and more as an investment – simplified….if you buy a bed that costs say £500.00, it seems like a big outlay at the beginning, but if you keep the bed for 10 years, it only costs approximately £1.00 per week and for that you get to use it every day. Doesn’t seem so bad when you think of it as an investment rather than a start-up cost.

  151. Davy says:

    Ok lets just admit it, hands up if you think “Neil Craig” is a trolling tosser, I thought it would be fun to keep him around to make fun of, but he really is too boring, time to get rid.

    I saw the last part of Gordon Brewers interveiw with Margarent Curren he totally skewered her with the taking of benefits from 18 – 21 year olds, labour more tory than the torys, or perhaps labour is actually even/stevens with Ukip.

    And how is it possible for the BBC & media to ignore 50,000 people marching in London against austerity, is “look its a squirrel” becoming contagious.

    Folks, we have all seen how the NO campaign is going to conduct its campiagn from now on, exspecially after these past two weeks, nothing but smears and crass accusations against the YES campaign of the most petty kind. So we have learned how to handle it fairly well, use humour, use the truth, and serioursly don’t stop them when they are making a mistake, just shout it out to the rest of us.

    But don’t back down, the minute they think they can bully us they will. Lets meet them face to face, we have Scotland as the prize, they have nothing.

    I’m definately up for the next 12 weeks.

  152. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    They have no idea do they Paula?

  153. handclapping says:

    Are you on the Kirkcaldy electoral roll yet? There is an active Yes Kirkcaldy organisation though you’ll probably come under their Methil group but they are on all the social media stuff so I’m told.

    @Bugger (the Panda) Yes

  154. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    i notice many decrying that this isnt an SNP site and the SNP values are alien to many here
    i will be 50 years old this week
    that makes 35 years i have been a member of the snp
    in truth, my politics are republican green.
    never voted for either, no point, without independence both are only dreams. this is how the snp managed to get 45% of the vote in 2011.
    20 years ago, it was me and a very small number of activist who were responsible for puting the leaflets through your doors which pointed out that it mattered not if there were 42 or 50 feeble labour MP’s, or whether there were 11 or 9 tory mps. there was a democratic deficit in Scotland. The democratic deficit is a main stay of the Yes campaign. btw, I was blamed by my workmates in 93 for “splitting the vote”. I watched the Torys die the death. i’ve watched the libdems do the same. I am now watching labour in its death throws in Scotland. if it is YES, good, i’ll vote green, then republican, if it is a No, what are you going to do?
    will you pretend that wings, bella, LFI, national collective, women for indy etc……..never happened?
    i win either way
    do you think that everyone will go back to voting labour, tory, libdem?
    i will continue to dream and to fight. even fat ladies singing wont stop me.
    now dance if you can, but remember, it wasnt william wallace who brought you to this ring

  155. scottish_skier says:

    I want Farage vs Salmond.

    Farage is the future of the UK after all.

    How do I know this? Neil Craig says so.

  156. Brian Mchugh says:

    The SNP won the majority in 2011 and the referendum was a certainty the next day.

    That is 3 years of Westminster holding back the full extent of the cuts because of the effect it would have in increasing the desire for a YES vote… That is 3 years of cuts they are going to very quickly introduce the very next day after a NO vote.

  157. Croompenstein says:

    I hope the FM does mention Flippers unsavoury blood and soil episode, I also hope he pulls him up for the house flipping and his resignation from the Faculty of Advocates. I know it’s playing the man and FM may be too classy for this but I really hope he does.

  158. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

    @handclapping – it was one of the first things I did! Haven’t had the time to help out with Yes Kirkcaldy yet though. Sorry guys. Moving house is stressful. If it is any consolation my house windaes are stickered, my car windae is stickered and so is my guitar. Ahm daeing ma bit as a can.

  159. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Bugger (the Panda) says:
    22 June, 2014 at 7:16 pmSchrodinger’s Cat

    I live in France now so, sorry I can’t help you out.

    I wish I could.

    j’etais six ans dans le midi, pres d’avignon, je suis citoyen du cinqueme republique, et fier d’etre
    vive la republique
    vive la france
    et vive la legion

  160. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    handclapping says:
    I’m a plasmodium falciparum
    ouch, cereberal malaria, picked up a dose in Camerone
    2 weeks in hospital in forester hill dreaming i was a cafard

  161. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Why am I so bloody DEPRESSED today? I don’t think there’s even any special reason for it. Smug UKOKers and biassed press getting to me I think.

  162. handclapping says:

    I can beat you on that. It was 1954/5 that I went off Westminster after being called a “Peasant” by my Tory MP. I arrived here in 2007 in time for the elections and joined the SNP as they had a real chance of getting us out from under rule of Westminster incompetents.

    Now I find the right of recall enshrined in Scots constitutional theory so we have the politicians where we tell them rather than the otherway round. What more can you ask for?

    Vote No and have them continue to tell us? Not from this pensioner; Yes all the way

  163. kininvie says:

    Just to cheer people up a wee bit: Yes West Lothian chose East Calder for its mass canvass effort today. Traditionally, this is something of a Labour stronghold so we weren’t expecting especially good results. But here they are (I’d guess around 1,000 households canvassed)

    Yes 40.5%
    No 32.7%
    Undecided: 20.3%
    Refused to answer: 6.5%

    Mind you, it was a lovely sunny afternoon. The numbers for ‘no answer’ were very high – so I doubt these figures would be statistically significant. Still – I’m happy 🙂

  164. gordoz says:


    Obama trumped by todays news from the states; (via Pat Kane – twitter)

    ‘GOD backs a yes vote !’ (Dave Grohl of Foo Fighters)

    No higher office exists – what a guy !!!

    If you don’t recognize the name your ‘too old’ and sadly have missed out, or too young and should sort it out by downloading back catalogue now !!

  165. gordoz says:

    Rev – regardless of what has been said today – you were 100% correct about Alex Johnstone material.

    No danger.

  166. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    It was 1954/5 that I went off Westminster
    thats me telt

    What more can you ask for?

    would a yes be too much to ask for?

  167. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    conversation seems apt for an article called
    Keir Hardie’s Grave

  168. R. Duncan says:

    Second that Davy

    regards darling debating Salmond. Surely that’s a mis-match and will they put it on TV late as there will be blood everywhere. I actually felt a pang of sympathy for ali there.

    No , it’s gone.

    The one thing i admire Mr Salmond most is his chat. He is, i gather an amiable guy and very approachable but comparing him with ANY of the “heavy’s” of Westminster, he’s in a different league. Darling fall on your sword. it’s much more dignified.

    I’m looking forward to STV’s viewing figures for that one. Put Scotland 2014 to shame.

  169. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    handclapping says:
    I joined the SNP as they had no chance of getting us out from under rule of Westminster incompetents.


  170. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    as, = when.

    in an independent scotland, there will be edit buttons

  171. geeo says:

    Regarding AS v AD, Not sure what BT think they are going to gain from this !

    Possibly not the best idea to smear the FM face to face when he can bite back hard.

    On the plus side for Yes, the MSM shall have to either confront the reality of the A.D lies, and his “blood and soil” slurs, or call the FM a liar by defending AD.

    Cannot wait.

  172. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    I actually felt a pang of sympathy for ali there.

    No , it’s gone.

    a momentary lapse of reason?

  173. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Schroedingers Cat

    J’habite dans le Gers, honestly.

    The nearest big town is Condom.

    Condom en Armagnac is a geographical description, not a gastronomic delicacy.

  174. Cag-does-thinking says:

    Phew not really a good day for Labour on telly! I know polititians are getting younger but…. Is this supposed to make the poor and the vulnerable come out and vote? She seemed to struggle with the brief which is Social Security (there’s a clue in that title she seems to have missed). She looked like she failed the interview for ATOS for being too unsympathetic and got this instead. And ohh dear but M Curran didn’t look happy when she was confronted by the “discrepency” of a billion or two in the treasury figures. Account for every penny if you are the SNP but really don’t cross examine on the embarrassing lies told on the No side’s behalf!

  175. caz-m says:


    How is our resident pollster,

    any particular reason for the lack of polls at the moment, and is that a good or a bad thing?

  176. Peter says:

    Vernon Bogdanor. Smug prat talking bollocks or smug talking bollocks prat?

  177. Paula Rose says:

    I’m not sure about mixing latex and Armangnac – unnecessary really.

  178. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Such thingies are available, in a synthetic flavoured type, I believe, from machines.

  179. Paula Rose says:

    What’s happened to the video link at the top of the page (or am I the only one infected)?

  180. Harry McAye says:

    Death threats to Alex Salmond reports the Sunday Sun. Not mentioned on the BBC news. But some sweary words at JK Rowling was headline news. I’ll be at the BBC next Sunday, hope to see many of you there.

  181. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Looks like you have a dose of something. The link works for me.

    Perhaps you should have a prophylactic anti disease thingy on your computer.

  182. goldenayr says:


    I take it you drink the local vineyard tipple Chateau Du Rex

  183. Adrian B says:

    @ Morag,

    Why am I so bloody DEPRESSED today?

    Have a look at the Duns referendum debate held on Friday. Robin McAlpine & Lynda Williamson (from Newsnet) are on the panel for Yes.

    130 people were at the event in the small borders town.
    Before: Yes 53%, No 31%, Undecided 16%
    After: Yes 63%, No 32%, Undecided 5%

    The whole event has been put on YouTube without any editing, so you may wish to skip through some parts. The debate starts at about 21 minutes in with Robin McAlpine.

  184. OscarDilettante says:

    I saw something like this in Australia in the 90’s where the mainstream parties were competeing to take a harder line on the Aborines. They too adopted a more and more right-wing agenda in the face of an extreme-right fringe party that was gaining popularity.
    We are through the looking glass now folks, hold on tight and vote YES!

  185. Davy says:

    I do hope their is a question on a currency union in the AS – AD debate, I cant wait to hear how darling answers that.

    Or will it be selective memory time again.

  186. Paula Rose says:

    @BtP – silly me, had a look at Vote Nob Orders earlier and forgot to do a clean start, always pick up something disagreeable when I go there.

  187. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Condom en Armagnac is a geographical description, not a gastronomic delicacy

    ha ha ha, i can only guess the flavour of condoms in the mens toilets at yer local

    spent many a trip getting pissed up in pau
    the best cognac isnt as good as the worst armagnac,
    this isnt opinion, its a verifiable fact…HIC

    le magrait de canard ce mon plat prefere

  188. Melvin penman says:


    David Blunket has supported the view that Labour will be out of government in Uk for 15 years.
    That means TORY government over Scotland for 15 years if Scotland Votes NO.

    Why can’t the MSM in Scotland report on that as headline news.

    Labour are in a rush to the right, with the Conservatives , we need to get the message out.
    15 years of Tories and out of Europe ,I can’t believe why anyone would vote for that…….

  189. Paula Rose says:

    Are condoms a gastronomic delicacy? Gosh – it’s amazing what you learn on wings.

  190. Thepnr says:

    There is no pretence now of labour being a left of centre party. They don’t want those on benefits to vote at all.

    Statistically the disenfranchised are far less likely to vote than any other group. Therefore in order to try and win power their traditional support has been ignored in favour of more right wing policies. Trying to out-tory the tories is doomed to failure, particularly in Scotland.

    I notice that this particular interview wasn’t even broadcast in Scotland, we got Margaret Curran instead.

    We’ve all seen it though and those of us that frequent the Social clubs and working mens pubs in Scotland will be telling them what Labour really stands for.

    Keep having these conversations, expose the deceit.

  191. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Usually Corbieres or Languedoc

    Wines from the Gers are not the best, which is why they make a lot of Armagnac.

  192. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Usually Corbieres or Languedoc

    Wines from the Gers are not the best

    stains yer teeth, ok with cassoulet though

  193. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I do drink quite a lot of Cremant d’Alsace at €7.0, which is way, way better than most €30 Champagnes.

    Same grapes, similar climate and more attention paid to the cellar processes

  194. JWil says:

    The fact that Neil Kinnock has spoken up in support of Ed Miliband must be like getting the kiss of death.

  195. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Paula Rose says:
    22 June, 2014 at 8:57 pmAre condoms a gastronomic delicacy? Gosh – it’s amazing what you learn on wings.

    i would even go there paula
    this is a respectable site, kids might be reading

  196. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Cassoulet no way.

    If you eat that at midday you should be wearing your pyjamas.

    Anyway, Cassoulet is mainly Toulouse and just eastwards towards Carcassone

  197. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    best wine in the area is madiran

  198. caz-m says:

    Watching wee Gordon, oor manager, on ITV World Cup thingy.

    He must be voting “YES” is he not, after all he sings about “see your likes again” before every game.

  199. Adrian B says:


    Why am I so bloody DEPRESSED today?

    Have a look at the referendum debate from Duns on Friday. Robin McAlpine and Lynda Williamson (Newsnet) are on the panel from Yes. Robin McAlpine starts off at about 21 minutes in after the general introductions.

    Stats before and after:

    Before: Yes 53%, No 31% and undecided 16%
    After: Yes 63%, No 32% and undecided 5%

  200. west_lothian_questioner says:

    Used tae bide in Torry.. Vicky Rd. opposite the end of Walker Road… now in W.L. via Crete. The favourite wine in this locale appears to be a popular brand named Buckie… so I’m informed…

  201. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Chateau Montus, absolutely but there is a lot of crap Madiran

  202. caz-m says:

    Paula Rose
    “Are condoms a gastronomic delicacy? Gosh – it’s amazing what you learn on wings”.

    Miss Rose, am no swallowin that wan.

  203. TheItalianJob says:

    @BtP and Schrodinger’s Cat

    A yes happy memories of cassoulet in Carcassonne. Was it really 30 years ago.

  204. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    and you lived to tell the tale.

  205. Walter Scott says:

    She looks like Ed Miliband in a wig

  206. caz-m says:


    BBC Scotland did show the Rachel Reeves interview. Smiley thing.

    We all heard the lies first hand.

  207. TheItalianJob says:


    I was living in Marseille (16 months) and working in a shipyard East of there in La Ciotat. Fantastic rose down there from Bandol of and the red very good too.

  208. Paula Rose says:

    I love a decent rose – where’s the acute accent thingy?

  209. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Cassoulet is mainly Toulouse and just eastwards towards Carcassone

    yes it is, but castel pif(pinard) is totally vile and really does stain yer teeth
    Corbieres or Languedoc is drunk by preference in the gard

  210. Paula Rose says:

    I could murder a decent corbieres right now.

  211. TheItalianJob says:

    @Paula Rose

    Here ye go. Rose’.

  212. caz-m says:

    The Labour Party are like accountants, ask five of them the same question and you will get five different answers.

  213. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    west_lothian_questioner says:
    22 June, 2014 at 9:08 pmUsed tae bide in Torry.. Vicky Rd. opposite the end of Walker Road… now in W.L. via Crete. The favourite wine in this locale appears to be a popular brand named Buckie… so I’m informed…

    ha ha ha ha ha

    ochone ochone lol

  214. Thepnr says:

    There’s 35 hours left to help Scottish independence Live Events get over the finish line. Hopefully they can get a few more donations before the close.

  215. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    keir hardie’s grave

    here’s us discussing the merits of cassoulet, madiran, and armagnac flavoured condoms………

    is that a birlin’ sound i can hear

  216. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    got a link pnr?

  217. TJenny says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat – apologies for my ignorance, but I see that you’ve used the expression ‘ochone, ochone’. Does it just mean ‘oh, no.? And how is it pronounced? Only ever seen it, here on WOS.

  218. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    TheItalianJob says:
    @BtP and Schrodinger’s Cat
    happy memories of cassoulet in Carcassonne. Was it really 30 years ago.
    happy memories of cassoulet in Castelnaudary. Was it really 30 years ago

  219. Colin Church says:

    There is a paradigm shift completely outwith the Westminster village and BBC coverage. Having ran a costly poll on attitudes that cost several 100k but not shared we now know where we are in the sniping stakes. Rolling out high profile “cleverer and more important” views which the plebs should follow doesn’t work in 2014. This is grassroots versus the machine. There is another way. We can choose to be no longer a feudal state – remember the national potential of BP before it was de-nationalised? We cannot wait for the UK govt and MOD to open the West Atlantic basin and steal that as well. We have all the bargaining chips – unionista “lords and ladies in waiting – wannabes” are a distraction. Lord Reid of Cardowan, no more! Not wee, poor or stupid. Oil price going down any time soon? Re-invest in renewables at no cost??? Te future is bright.

  220. Paula Rose says:

    Nope Schrodinger’s Cat that’s Mr Hardie joining us for a drink and some rustic gastronomy.

  221. Rock says:


    “any chance some of you kind people could repost this link on your Facebook or Twitter accounts to try and raise a wee bit of cash for the Yes Stirling campaign office?”

    Andrew, what is Yes Stirling’s policy regarding Wings Over Scotland?

  222. john king says:

    ” I’m a plasmodium falciparum carrier. :)”

    Jings man Malaria?
    I take it it’s under control?

    Goldenayr says
    “Don’t bother wi’ John.

    Y’never read his resume of nightime posts of a weekend morn?”

    What does that mean?

    Caz-m says
    “Has anyone ever saw Johann Lamont and Angela Merkel in the same room at the same time?”

    but Ive never seen Liquid Lenny and Jingly Jangly in the same room at the same time

    J Gedd says
    “I’m sorry if I come over as pessimistic and I’m slightly gratified that you have read any of my comments. I AM pessimistic – it’s just the way I am”

    Male Female it doesn’t matter
    I have the greatest respect for someone who goes into infertile ground and canvasses, you deserve everyone’s thanks,
    I wish we had a way of switching people round so you get a more receptive round occasionally so you don’t get too downhearted,
    I was told by a fantastic YES campaigner that he was manning a yes stall at the Medies in Lochore during the pipe band championships and he was buzzing this morning when he told me his stall was overrun with people talking to him and the other
    btw volunteers and said the visits to his stall outnumbered the Better together stall by 20 to 1 and a lot of smiling faces, as well as drummers in the pipe band sporting the YES a3’s on their drums,

    But keep you chin up J Gedd, WE’RE WINNING 🙂

    Schrödingers cat @7.47


    btw I joined the SNP in 1978

  223. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @TJenny says:
    ‘ochone, ochone’. Does it just mean ‘oh, no.?

    ochone = alas

    Angus Og used to say little else.

  224. Thepnr says:

    @Schrodinger’s Cat

    Cheers, meant to put that first time. Dope.

  225. TJenny says:

    Calcagus MacAndrews cheers, and is pronounced like Gok Wan?

  226. jon esquierdo says:

    Heard it all before

  227. TheItalianJob says:

    @Calgacus Mac Andrews

    Thanks. I was racking my memory to try and remember where I had seen “ochone” before WOS.

    Of course Angus Og.

  228. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    ochone ochone

    not all words have an exact translation into another language
    eg, scots, “gloamin” isnt really translated as “sunset” in english, it lacks the atmospheric quality
    ochone ochone is like a croon, it is a reflexive expression one says to oneself, like, “deary me” an expression of self sadness,
    lewis grassic gibbon translated “bit”, as in a “bit supper”
    as “a mildly depreciatory adjectival handle”
    equivalent to the edinburgh, “ye’ll have had yer tea then?”

  229. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @TJenny says:
    Calcagus MacAndrews cheers, and is pronounced like Gok Wan?

    Not sure. The Angus Og cartoons I used to read were in black & white, with no sound …


  230. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Paula Rose says:
    22 June, 2014 at 9:33 pmNope Schrodinger’s Cat that’s Mr Hardie joining us for a drink and some rustic gastronomy.

    well said that women
    i dont doubt it for a moment

  231. Stakhanovite says:


    Ahhh Bandol….. Had a few bottles when up at Le Castellet, Circuit Paul Ricard

  232. handclapping says:

    @John King
    The whole of Benarty should be rabid Yes. They were brought up believing in Socialism in One Country.

    The only reason they’re not, I’m told, is some idiot keeps on delivering wet newspapers to them 😉

  233. TheItalianJob says:

    @Schrodinger’s Cat7

    Brill. We used to say the same in Fife “ye’ll have ha yer tea then”.

    This is why we love Scotland.

  234. TJenny says:

    found a link to ochone with an aural play – it seems to be pronounced like a sneeze ie ‘atch own’. So now I know. 🙂

  235. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 9.33

    I would imagine that Yes Stirling’s policy will be the same as YES Cowal’s as regards Wings. We hand out the “Aye Rights” by the hundred and direct everybody to Wings. You haven’t swallowed Magnus Gardham’s concoction on Wings, have you?

  236. john king says:

    “The only reason they’re not, I’m told, is some idiot keeps on delivering wet newspapers to them ;)”

    I didn’t make it rain. 🙁

  237. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    on topic

    i’ve watched quite a bit of independence live, even from here in holland
    i gave a donation to this guys face book when he first started and told him to start a crowd fund to help pay for a better ipad and maybe even a usb cantena
    if you have a spare couple of quid, this is an excellent outlet. if wings is our new newspaper, maybe independence live is the embryo of our new bbc. he is definately in your face. as x sticks

  238. john king says:

    Bed for me,
    I’ve got a paper round to do and then off to work,
    night all.

  239. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    as = ask

  240. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    The whole of Benarty should be rabid Yes. They were brought up believing in Socialism in One Country

    “happy is the man who belongs to no party
    an’ sits in his ain hoose and looks at Benarty”

  241. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Gloaming is twilight, isn’t it. Not sunset.

    I translated it as “dämmerung” for my German visitors and they seemed to get it.

  242. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Oh, and since that worked, rosé to you too.

  243. Robert Peffers says:

    @Neil Craig says: (22 June, 2014 at 3:25 pm)

    Dear Mr. Craig. May I humbly draw your attention to the fact that the Official YES Campaign and the SNP have recently officially disassociated themselves from Wings Over Scotland.

    Please be aware, (if such a thing is even possible for UKIPpers), the commenters here are drawn from all facets of the independence debate. Otherwise, why would we tolerate such balderdash as such as yourself posts here?

  244. Paula Rose says:

    The foreign danger posted earlier today is worth a re-visit.

  245. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Gloaming is twilight, isn’t it. Not sunset.

    I translated it as “dämmerung” for my German visitors and they seemed to get it.

    not according to lewis grassic gibon
    but “dämmerung” is a lot closer, probably because both scots and german share many common roots

    btw panda
    yup, some madiran is crap, but when i was there, i could only afford the cheap stuff
    however, if you want to come to the howe
    im back onshore from the 4th to the 24th sept
    i live 10 mins away from freuchie and have a house with 3 bedrooms, including a spare double, shit, ill even pick you up from turnhouse, i will be campaigning solidly, it you want to join me, you and yer partner are welcome.
    genuine offer

  246. CameronB Brodie says:

    Croompenstein said “I hope the FM does mention Flippers unsavoury blood and soil episode, I also hope he pulls him up for the house flipping and his resignation from the Faculty of Advocates. I know it’s playing the man and FM may be too classy for this but I really hope he does”.

    I doubt he will but I think he must. I’d leave it right to the end, but I’m not a politician. There has to be some ‘official’ recognition and support of all our hard effort. What better timing?

  247. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    i think panda has gone to bed
    me too
    could the regulars point him to my last post?

  248. CameronB Brodie says:

    Night, night.

  249. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    good night cameron

    lang may yer lum reek m8

  250. Paula Rose says:

    Oh damn – shortest night, time for some naked gardening – see you all tomorrow xx.

  251. geeo says:

    Harry McAye says:

    22 June, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Death threats to Alex Salmond reports the Sunday Sun. Not mentioned on the BBC news. But some sweary words at JK Rowling was headline news. I’ll be at the BBC next Sunday, hope to see many of you there.
    Possibly the threat i mentioned previously from the DR comments pages ?
    There was a guy reported it to the police and told them so.

    I have since been warning some of the more abusive elements about their threats and abusive behaviour.
    Left a wee comment warning the moderators that i am now collating any abuse, threats etc and if it continues without mature moderation its off to the PCC and if required, Police Scotland.

    It has gone very quiet over there on the referendum topics today….

    For the record, i have been super nice as i say all this.
    Even told one guy i would defend his right to talk nonsense whilst reserving the right to challenge his nonsense.

    This seemed to upset him, but funnily enough, he was NOT as abusive as he usually is.

    Good fun actually.

  252. Tam Jardine says:


    Wasn’t so bad I suppose, it’s just that the part of Dumfries we canvassed today could benefit greatly in an independent Scotland. I get the feeling that in this part of the world there is, for some, weak identification with Scotland. I’m talking about born and bred Gallovidians. It might even be historic in origin.

    Well done sticking it out. Please don’t get the impression Dumfries feels more British or less Scottish. My impression from my upbringing there is that there is an alienation with the central belt in Dumfries and a suspicion of Edinburgh rule.

    When I go hame and tell someone I’m living in Edinburgh now, you’d think I’d boasted I had moved to Hollywood. There is something that reminds me of the Norwegian attitude.

    Dumfries and Galloway has been largely ignored by Westminster and Holywood and has suffered from a lack of investment in industry and infrastructure forever. This wonderful place has a very seperate identity from the rest of Scotland and has as little in common with the Borders as anywhere else. As you say, D&G has plenty to gain from Indy but needs nourished by the new order.

    Of course there are strong bonds with Cumbria and the North East – Newcastle in particular but this is the land of Burns, the Black Douglas and Robert the Bruce and is as Scottish as anywhere. There is a large retired population and is no SNP heartland but if the ’79 referendum is anything to go by we need 40% Yes to win.

    If you can make Wings Edinburgh on 4th July at the Newsroom you’re due a pint.

  253. Robert Peffers says:

    @handclapping says: “I’m a plasmodium falciparum carrier”.

    Ach! Nae probs, handclapping, wir native Scottish migies ate aa the mossies lang syne.

  254. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dan Huil says:“Tory,labour,Libdem: they’re all the same”

    I wrote a wee verse some years ago. After AS compared Labour and Tory to the two fat characters. It began –

    There’s Tweedledee an Tweedledum
    Then there is TweedleDEM.
    Ye canna shove a fag paper,
    ‘Tween ony twa o them.

  255. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “You haven’t swallowed Magnus Gardham’s concoction on Wings, have you?”

    No, I wouldn’t and I haven’t, but shamefully Yes Scotland has.

    Yes Scotland’s official response should have been:

    ‘Stuart Campbell has stated that he will withdraw his scum remark if Alex Johnstone withdraws his smears on the Weirs. We agree with Stuart Campbell’s position.’

    Please make sure that YES Cowal, YES Stirling and all other grassroots YES units put pressure on YES Scotland to lift the ban on W O S immediately.

    Otherwise, by handing out the “Aye Rights” and directing anybody to Wings, you are breaking Yes Scotland rules.

    Why on earth did Yes Scotland succumb to the British Establishment’s classic ‘Divide and Rule’ tactic???

  256. Morag says:

    As far as that goes, Yes Scotland can go f 🙂 ck itself. And I already told them so.

  257. Robert Peffers says:

    @Paula Rose says: “love a decent rose – where’s the acute accent thingy?”

    You can access all the wee acute accent thingy’s by going to, ‘Accessories’, and clicking upon, ‘System Tools’, then, ‘Character Map’. It comes with built in highlight and copy buttons. Then paste your chosen character thingy whereever you need it.

  258. Midgehunter says:

    @ Morag

    Gloaming is twilight, isn’t it. Not sunset.

    I translated it as “dämmerung” for my German visitors and they seemed to get it.

    Thats’s right;
    Twilight is is Dämmerung
    Sunset is Sonnenuntergang

  259. CameronB Brodie says:

    And I’ve got your back.

  260. Flower of Scotland says:

    @Schroedingers Cat
    Will be there on the 4th! I’m outside Strath!

  261. Midgehunter says:

    @ Rock

    Left a message for you on thread regarding info about German MSM – threads move quick nowadays…!

  262. Paula Rose says:

    CameronB honey – I just love your front, oooH!

  263. Flower of Scotland says:

    Sorry extra e! Schrodinger,s Cat!

  264. CameronB Brodie says:

    Paula Rose

    Public Enemy – Fight The Power 🙂

  265. Neil Craig says:


    Your points are arguable. I doubt that we would have more money by not “subsidising” England (as do most accountants). I disagree with you about the “Keynesian economics” of printing money, as did the real life Keynes.

    I do think you have a point that if Scotland drastically cut defence spending to Irish levels we would have 1 1/2 billion to spare – indeed I think if Salmond were making a serious case for separation he would push that.

    However how the argument goes is not the issue I was objecting to. I was objecting to the idiot who said we shouldn’t even look at the economic arguments for/against until after we have “achieved” separation/bankruptcy. And the other idiots who agree with him. Such people are not patriots in any truthful sense.

  266. Robert Peffers says:

    @Schrodinger’s Cat says: “happy is the man who belongs to no party
    an’ sits in his ain hoose and looks at Benarty”.

    If you mean the hill then I’m a happy man. I look out my window, here in Kelty, across the Meedies, Loch Ore and at Benarty Hill. I see Ballingry, Lochore and Lochgelly across the fields too.

  267. geeo says:

    @neil craig.

    Look at your words neil.

    Nobody is pushing for separation, we want INDEPENDENCE.

    Call me on it, but what the heck is a “patriot” in the year 2014 and what is the relevance exactly ?

    Did you know if you say “cheese” REALLY SLOWLY it sounds like gullible ?

    Troll on kid.

  268. CameronB Brodie says:

    Neil Craig
    How is it possible to consider Scotland’s economic future, before the family silver is divided up and we get a chance to see what resources we have to play with. As far as the inevitable DOOM, have you had much experience in the administration of government? What would you say your understanding is of spatial theories relating to the distribution of economic development? What is your background, if that isn’t too personal a question?

  269. goldenayr says:

    Neil Craig

    Are you here to promote your site or restoration of an autonomous Scottish state?

  270. Neil Craig

    I’m going to say this again. But if the economic argument concerns you so damn much, it is hypocritical to vote anything but yes. You’re ducking and diving like an Italian footballer here, running away and switching arguments when you are cornered. I has been duly noted that for being a Ukipper, you certainly do have a peculiar love for spouting UK government figures about Scottish independence, yet when one talks about the EU, suddenly its all LIES LIES LIES!! Make up your friggin mind dude.

    And as others have said, you lost it the moment you invoked Godwins law.

    I don’t believe you care about the economic argument at all. Your inconsistency is hilarious at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I suspect your allegiance to UKIP is for other, more basal reasons.

  271. Adrian B says:

    You need to take into consideration all the assets and liabilities when looking at the overall viability of a business or country. In these terms Scotland will be in a better position than it is in today after Independence. There is no real argument to suggest otherwise.

    6. The importance of the post-referendum negotiations
    When a UK general election looms, all the main parties with a chance of being in government get a degree of access to the civil service, and to government documents and statistics, so that they can be briefed on the realities they would face, should they come to power. The aim is to help them put well-costed policies in place, before they begin making election promises to voters.
    Unfortunately, there has been no equivalent process for Scotland’s referendum, despite its momentous implications. Westminster ministers have instead given no information at all to the Scottish government or their officials. Whitehall has been forbidden to discuss issues with Scottish officials and to do any contingency planning for independence, in case the conclusions suggest independence would not cause major problems. (The only exception here is the Bank of England, where Mervyn King gave permission for its officials to hold technical discussions with Scottish planners.)
    Yet most of the information needed to understand the transition costs for an independent Scotland lies not in Edinburgh, but in London, where the reserved functions are administered. Indeed, how could it be

  272. thoughtsofascot says:


  273. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat says:

    Thanks but my daughter has just bought a house in Freuchie and will fet the keys in 7 days.

    I also have a free bed at The Lomond Hills which is owned by my mate Ronnie.

    I doubt that I will be back during the run up except for the last 14 days when I will bunk it with my niece and her brats in Glasgow. It is my hometown and where the Referendum will be won or lost.

    Flower of Scotland,

    Outside Strath?

    There is Falkland, and Muchty and that is it!

  274. donald anderson says:

    If Keir Hardie was alive today he’d turn over in his grave.

  275. Ken500 says:

    The UK has £1.4Trillion of increased (last five years) of debt. Not incurred by Scotland. Without Westminster rule Scotland would have had an Oil Fund. Westminster gov’s have secretly defrauded Scotland for years. Thatcher wrote on the papers released last year, as she took all the Oil Funds (offshored it). Secretly took the equivalent of £Billions -£250Billions+ and cut the Scottish budget to the core. One of her Ministers resigned. Lang/Forsyth were her henchmen. Now £millionaires in the House of Lords. Thatcher spent the Oil revenues on London S/E buying votes. Thatcher left over three million unemployed and interest rates at 15%. Thatcher destroyed the economy, especially in the North. Deregulated, privatised the Utilities, sold them off. Demutualised the Building Societies owned by their members. To create a housing bubble and bankers could gamble the mortgage books on the international markets. Dangerously decreased leverage. It went from 1/4 to 1/13. The Tory bankers own and fund the Tory Party. Westminster Politicans and their associates have made £Millions/£Billions from the Post Office sell off and the Ghost Train to nowhere. A complete White elephant with no market/business case. Not enough passengers which will be subsidised with public monies forever. A total waste of public monies which will increase the public debt, while vulnerable people are starving to death.

  276. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Ken 500

    If PFI etc, and the unfunded Civil Service Pension commitments, are brought onto the books, like some EU Governments want, the actual debt is nearer £4 trilllion.

    Impossible to repay.

  277. Ken500 says:

    Labour Party kept the MCCrone Report secret for thirty years. Spent £Billions of public monies on illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. HMRC is not fit for purpose. Scotland makes debt repayments on monies not borrowed or spent in Scotland. The UK Treasury takes over £10Billion+ a year from Scotland. A 1/6 of Scottish revenues. Osbourne/Alexander Increased Oil tax by 11% (£2Billion) up to 80% in the 2011 Budget. Scotland has now lost Oil revenues. Cut the Block Grant £1.3Billion a year, since 2011.

    ConDems elected to protect NHS/Education have cut both. ConDems have cut taxes and the debt has increased. Sold off the Post Office for a quick buck and the debt has increased. Spending £Billions on a ghost train, HS2, with no business case or market, no enough passengers. It will be subsidised with public monies forever, increasing the debt.

    The wealth of the richest (tax breaks) has increased 15% in the last year. The vulnerable are being sanctioned and are having to walk to food banks. 5 people in Britain own more than 20% of the population.

    Fradge is a liar and a crook, he has been illegally funding a political party with £Millions of public monies for years. Now trying to make a bid for a seat in the Lords, where he can trough some more.

    Vote YES for a fairer, more equal prosperous country.

  278. Ken500 says:

    Scotland could pay off the Debt. Raises more taxes, and borrows and spends less than the rest of the UK. With growth Scotland could repay the debt, even making the same debt repayments, as it would diminish over time and become more manageable.

  279. Ken500 says:

    Rachel Reeves stated that the average wage (not enough) was £60k. What planet are these career Politicians on? They don’t live in the real world.

    Surprisingly Andrew Neil, Thatcher’s apostle, has made statements supporting Independence for Scotland, in Scotland. A change of heart of just twa faced.

  280. Another Union Dividend says:

    Where is the coverage in Scottish newspapers of Ed Miliband’s meltdown? Attacked by his own MPs.

    Also good articles by Lesley Riddoch on BBC

    And Derek Bateman on MSM tactics against Wings and Newsnet

  281. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Flower of Scotland,

    Outside Strath?

    There is Falkland, and Muchty and that is it!

    Gateside and Cash, urquart etc
    email YESNEF(at)outlook(dot)com
    I could do with a hand in the Howe

  282. donald anderson says:

    Lords Wilson and Callaghan paved the way for Thatcher and Blair and co carried on with her Great British tradition.

  283. Morag says:

    That is very good. One for the Wings list, maybe, if something else could be dropped?

  284. Jeannie says:

    @david briggs

    Thanks for that link – it’s a great wee read and funny with it. Have shared it on facebook.

  285. TJenny says:

    David Briggs + Morag – I agree that was an enjoyable read and I’m sure it would be accessed by far more readers if there was a link to it on WOS. 🙂

    (out of curiosity are you for or against Marmite? I like it).

  286. William Duguid says:

    @David Briggs

    Thanks for the plug, and thanks to others for sharing the blog too. I’m a wee bit behind the curve publicity-wise, so I’m trying to build up from a small following. All visitors to the blog are most welcome, and if Rev Stu ever saw fit to include a link on WoS, that would be marvellous.


    For 😀

  287. TJenny says:

    William Duguid – my kind of man. 🙂

    Btw, are you aware there’s a WOS night in The Newsroom (basement), Leith Street, Edin on 4th July. You’d very welcome if you can makes it along.

  288. William Duguid says:


    Wasn’t able to make the last couple of WoS meet-ups, so may well do just that.

  289. JGedd says:

    @ Tam Jardine

    I agree with you that there is distance between the Central belt and D&G – a geographical and psychological distance. When I first moved there I discovered this chippy attitude to the central belt, a feeling of grievance and resentment but sometimes harking back to a historical feeling of difference.

    Transport links are very problematic and the region has suffered neglect but you might think that this would translate to grievance against the UK government. The Scottish Parliament has only been in existence for a short time and some much needed work has taken place re road improvements ( though much still needs to be done.)

    I actually understand the frustrations with the neglect of infrastructure etc., but I can’t understand at all the misplaced loyalty to a UK government whose indifference has been of far longer duration and whose policies have bequeathed deep-seated structural economic problems. There are obvious social divisions – class divisions as well as town versus rural – but somehow this does not result in a cohesive political consciousness.

    That this should result often in either apathy regarding independence or downright hostility is very disheartening. One hostile response to us in yesterday’s canvass was that “we would be cutting our own throats” in voting for independence which is so the opposite the truth that it beggars belief.

    Still canvassing though.

  290. JGedd says:

    @ William Duguid

    Excellent. Keep up the blog. ( By the way, like your name!)

  291. Rock says:



    Left a message for you on thread regarding info about German MSM – threads move quick nowadays…!”

    Yes, thanks. I read it and posted a response 🙂

    No equivalent of UKIP TV in Deutschland!

  292. Casper1066 says:

    They asked her why she was not complaining about IDS and his sanctions and she said because she agreed with him. That’s Labour…..cold hard and not for the “HARD WORKING PEOPLE NOW”….Tory Lite. Tory Hard.

    Disgusting inhuman behaviour ever…

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