Jim Murphy is a liar
For some unknown reason the BBC still hasn’t managed to get its coverage of the Scottish Labour conference from last Saturday onto the iPlayer yet. Fortunately an alert reader captured the second of its two-hour broadcasts and has helpfully put the whole thing on YouTube. Here’s a short clip.
We know that claim is a flat-out lie. We know that Jim Murphy knows it’s a flat-out lie. We’re pretty sure that Brian Taylor – who Murphy sneakily implicates in the falsehood by saying “You know this”, which Taylor fails to contest – knows it’s a flat-out lie. And we know that Jim Murphy knows that everyone knows that he knows it’s a flat-out lie.
So why, more than a month after it was comprehensively and unarguably disproven, is Scottish Labour still knowingly, deliberately, publicly lying to the people of Scotland?
It’s not isolated. It’s being repeated at every level of the party.
It’s being repeated on leaflets put through people’s doors.
It’s being repeated on social media.
All of these repetitions have come long after it was proven to be false and covered extensively in the press. Whenever challenged, Labour mumble irrelevancies about the past and duck behind some weasel words, but as soon as they’re off-camera they simply go back to the original version of the lie.
It’s a startling demonstration of just how utterly bereft of strategy the party is that it keeps insisting the Emperor is wearing a really rather splendid set of new robes when everyone else can see his tackle swinging in the breeze. In terms of sheer contempt for the intelligence of the electorate, we think it might be some sort of a record.
We’ve seen their tackle & we’re not impressed.
They’re doing the usual Labour thing of assuming if they say something is true then it automatically becomes true.
Also, they reckon if they just keep banging on about it, enough unwary and inattentive will be taken in to make a difference.
“It’s startling demonstration of just how utterly bereft of strategy the party is”.
That the crux of it. They have nothing to say that presents a positive, alternative vision for how things should be in our country. They know it’s not having the effect they want in the polls, but they can’t seem to think of anything else to say. At one level, it’s sad to see such an institution in such a pathetic state, led by clowns. On the other hand, ……….!!
Labour are still lying to the people of Scotland because they know there are enough of them dense enough to believe it. And that the MSM will not give any air to SNP rebuttals… IF the SNP can come out with any
S’WHAT Robin McAlpine said in article on Bella. Repeat until everyone gets fed up of contesting the truth and it becomes assumed.
Definite strategy along with deliberately confusing and changing, and asserting righteousness. He called it dogwhistle. I think it relies on people reverting to type because… well my grannie trusted them, in a world of constant uncertainty. And of course your valid point; no one reads beyond headlines.
Cept as Robin pointed out, we have computers.
Nevertheless it makes press complicity esp. eg Scotland Tonight all the more appalling.
There’s really only one of me, accept no substitutes.
It feels like…………2010
I haven’t gone back in time have I ?
Labour spouting the only way to guarantee a Labour government is to vote Labour – We did in 2010 and we got a Tory government thanks to Gordon Brown
One of my fab memes during the referendum was Cameron dressed in armour with a wistful look, and the words,
The trouble with Scotland is, they have the internet.
Always useful as a riposte to Unionist twaddle when you got tired of repeating yourself to refute lies.
The ukok media never challenge Labour’s assertions.
Btw did anyone see the extensive Hello type feature on the Milibands on BBC national news?
I wonder when Nicola Sturgeon will get a similiar opportunity.
The £Million expenses pitch, Scotland can’t support this nonsense. Ditch the spongers.
Too wee? Nope.
Too poor? Nope.
Too stupid? SLab clearly believe so!
Murphy’s nightmare is of course that he loses his seat, his job, or both. Vote Labour get Labour.
Cameron’s nightmare, contrary to what Murphy says, is that the Tories get more seats than Lab, but Lab+SNP support trumphs them. Which is why the Tory press is demonising the SNP and attempting to make such a situation unacceptable down south.
He’s also an arsehole.
Hard core brainwashing, vote Slab BBC style. Lovely sexy soft voice but he’s got a terrible poker face, creepy old Morphy. His mug looks like it’s having a limbo work out as the lies flow between his gorgeous pouting etc. Taylor has a terrible reputation for SLab bias to say the least, so there’s no way this dude will ever query full on liars like Morphy.
Both have some much money and careers at stake, if polls hold.
Off topic
RT reporting that 3 Labour candidates have turned down the Blair £1k offer.
At least they know how toxic the offer is, and yet I listened to Alastair Campbell say how popular Blair was as a PM.
Haha.
2010 – doesn’t sound much like biggest party to me!
link to news.bbc.co.uk
They have naught, in the ideas cupboard. They have nothing left (politically and figuratively), except fear; fear for their own personal wealth, through suckling at the whore of all parliament’s teat.
It’s all a bit neuro-linguistic programming. Repetition, repetition, repetition.
The desperate last ditch attempt to save the two party system.
It has to be one of us. You can’t vote for outsiders, they won’t play the game.
You see, it’s like I’ve always said, size doesn’t matter.
All of Labour’s lies have the irritating ring of tinnitus, all sound, no substance, which just echo around in my helmetus.
So, where does the term Minority government come from or for that matter working Majority.
What a state democracy has become in the UK, they try to validate lying by calling it spin, It is no more that a license to lie. Politicians are being called to task for lying to Scotland during the referendum, that is one of the many reasons for the swell in the ranks of the SNP. You should be able to have some faith in your politicians but that will never happen whilst MSM are also failing in their task.
Clootie says: doesn’t sound much like biggest party to me!
All any decent honorable journalist has to ask a conman like Murphy is, why did Crash Gordon say this after the result of the last GE Jim?
“2010- Gordon Brown has said he is to step down as Labour leader by September – and his party is opening coalition talks with the Liberal Democrats.”
The BBC is a world wide disgrace to journalism.
Sinky,
@6.45
I think they said it will be Nicola Sturgeon tomorrow night on 6O’clock news on BBC
Maybe Jim would like to try these on?
link to youtube.com
Duncan Im sure you wouldnt mind helping Jim try them on?
see if they fit like?
Its gone beyond simply insulting at this point, went right past ignorant and landed squarely on openly deceitful.
I don’t think there’s a damn thing that comes out of a Labour politicians mouth I would trust, with or without independent verification.
Hey Creepy Jim this is what you said in 2010…
Jim Murphy, Labour’s Scottish Secretary, claimed Gordon Brown has both the constitutional and moral right to try to form a Government.
Mr Murphy said that as Mr Brown was the sitting Prime Minister, he had “a constitutional responsibility” to try to form a new administration
Can you remind me Creepy Jim if Labour were the biggest party…mmm
Somebody wants to tell toodleoothenoo as he was maybe tucking in to his 5 steak bakes and a pink jammie and missed it…
Well that’s a red card (or is it puce) to Mr Murphy for yet another obscene tackle.
Get off the pitch you slavering, half-witted and deluded creep. If you can’t play the game then go sit somewhere quiet by yourself.
I expect HM gov will get the leaflets out shortly (!) but in the meantime …
link to parliament.uk
“Does the party with the most seats form a Government?
In order to form a Government, a party must be able to command a majority in the House of Commons on votes of confidence and supply. This majority can include support from other political parties, whether or not there is a formal coalition arrangement.
In a situation of no overall control the Government in power before the General Election gets the first chance at creating a government. If they cannot do so, the Prime Minister will resign.”
Couldn’t be any clearer?
To be quite honest, Stuart, in terms of what is being broadcast by the BBC, the problem is no longer Jim Murphy when it comes to these soundbites; it’s the BBC.
For Brian Taylor, a respected Political Analyst and Commentator, to sit there and not even pick Jim Murphy up on that mistake, even though we ALL know full well that Jim has made a ‘mistake’ is probably the line in the sand that has now been crossed.
They did this throughout the Referendum, and it is now being ramped up again in the Election. We really need this to be stopped, and the only way I can see it (though it will be too late to intervene in this election) is a public funded petition. A petition that covers the whole of Scotland in which we get half of Scotland to sign it, and then pass it to the Scottish Government.
Authority …lies not with Government, but with the People. It always has. When something finally persuades the people that change is required, then the hierarchy of ‘authority’ usually find in the end that their own power is an illusion. Real power lies with the people. It happened in the German Reformation when Martin Luther challenged the Catholic Church over indulgences; it happened in the Roman Republic when Tiberius Gracchus stood against the Senate and the major families of Rome when he denounced the political setup in the Republic, and demanded reforms that sought to transfer wealth from the wealthy Patricians of Rome and give it to the poor (sound familiar!). In this, the people responded and agreed with Gracchus (before Gracchus was eventually murdered by said Patrician families. It would take Julius Caesar to break the monopoly of the Patricians of Rome when he finally crossed the Rubicon with his army from Gaul).
I think you have done gallantly here in condemning the BBC, but I think the only way we’ll get real change is to have not the entire Scottish Nation say it …but sign it and thus have it acknowledged. Now …if that came to pass, then you really would have a game changer on your hands!
It’s a pity Auntie Bella does not come along and grab him by his ‘short and curlies’ and give him a good swing about.
I will get my popcorn ready just in case
Lies are all Labour now have, along with BBC Scotland and the Daily Record perpetrating them obviously.
Here is chapter and verse on hung Parliaments from UK government sources that should be sent to every journalist and broadcaster
So if no single party has a majority and there is a hung parliament, what happens next?
If no party has an overall majority, the incumbent Prime Minister is entitled to remain in place until a new government is formed.
If the party in power believe they can form a government
they will have the first opportunity to do so by seeking approval for their programme in the Queen’s Speech debate. Other parties will not have the opportunity to attempt to form a government unless and until the incumbent Prime Minister resigns. (See The Cabinet
Manual (CM) chapter 6, paragraphs 16-20)
Doesn’t the leader of the largest party automatically become Prime Minister?
No. That’s a common misconception. Strictly speaking it is the party which can command the confidence of Parliament that is invited to form the government. This may be the second largest party, if it can do a deal with other parties (as occurred in 1924).
Commanding confidence means being able to avoid defeat in Parliament on explicit confidence motions,and the Queen’s Speech, and on matters which have always been regarded as confidence issues, in particular the passage of the annual Budget. (See CM Ch 6, para 14-15)
How is it determined who should become Prime Minister? Does the Queen decide?
No. Though, formally, the Queen invites one leader to form a Government, there is a strict convention that the Crown should not be brought into political controversy.
It is for the political parties to work out who can command confidence in the new Parliament. The Prime Minister will advise the Queen whom to invite to form a government, after the political negotiations have made it clear who can command confidence.
link to ucl.ac.uk
Now I am sure our intrepid broadcasters and journalist will nail Labour every time they come out with such nonsense.
Jim Murphy’s a liar, c’mon Rev, we already knew that!
While anyone with an interest in the truth about the MSM Scottish referendum coverage, has found overwhelming proof that clearly demonstrates their pro union bias.
I am not so certain that there are not still a large body of people who naively/foolishly {depending on how you look at it}assume that the MSM is reporting the truth.
The problem we have in trying to educate them is that they use the MSM as their source of {dis}information and great sites such as this are in large part preaching to the converted
Considering just how powerful the effects of a relentless campaign of fear and dishonesty was during the referendum campaign. While in my heart I hope that enough of our fellow Scots { especially amongst the No side} have seen MSM for what it is , namely a propaganda mouthpiece for the powers that be. In my head i do wonder if the many thousands who believed the so called “vow” in Sept last year are any smarter now.
The Labour Party have always pursued this kind of tactic it’s why in years past Education was never a high priority
Keep them thick and they’re easy to control
Unfortunately for them today more and more people can inform themselves of the truth and the Labour Part don’t know how to counter truth except by repeating the same thing over and over and hope for brain death
Two queues of people lining up for brains to be handed out by God before being born, one queue can’t be bothered waiting and walk off
That’s who The Labour Party hope to appeal to
THE WALK OFFS
“The SNP brought down a Labour government…”
Is he referring to the government of Jim Callaghan, defeated in 1979? I thought it was Labour backbenchers who forced that election. Another lie.
And back at BBC Scotland, They completely forgot to tell us on Reporting Scotland that there was an improvement on A&E waiting times.
The headline on their website reads,
“A&E targets missed in last week of Feb, NHS figures show.”
The target figure that was “missed” was the 95% figure that the SNP are aiming for, over the long term.
The headline should have read,
“improvement in A&E figures for last week in February.”
But it is BBC Scotland we are talking about here.
The absolute essence of, and motive for, this outrageous lying process, is to confuse, deceive,and misinform, the electorate. It is committed in order to gain an advantage in the electoral vote. It is a Fraud.
Until such time as the appropriate powers take action, and intervene, to stop this illicit behaviour, by taking action against whoever is responsible, it will continue unabated.
So if the biggest party forms the government, why isn’t SLAB focused on becoming that biggest party? Why are they promoting strategic voting to increase Tory seats, even if this means that the Tories form the biggest party, and so becomes the government.
Following the twists and turns of politics is one thing, but the twists and turns of Labour rationale is something else.
You mean his tackle can move in the breeze such a big compliment,I never thought he had any!
Valerie: 6:53 pm
Aye Valerie
But the good news is that in the 5 Scottish seats Ivan McKee has donated £1,000 to each of the seats to offset Teflon Tony’s blood money.
Jim Murphy is leading the Scottish Labour Party to an historic electoral pasting in the upcoming general election in May.
Poll after poll in the wake of last September’s independence referendum leaves no doubt that the party that was once so dominant in Scotland it used to weigh its votes rather than count them, has finally and irrevocably been deserted by its core and natural constituency, people who feel that Labour abandoned them long before now.
link to archive.today
not what jim murphy said to the telegraph in 2010
link to telegraph.co.uk
Jim Stirling-I agree, does the average man in the street delve deeper in to what they are force fed by the MSM? I don’t think so. Hope I’m wrong,but fear it’s a losing battle.
It comes as no surprise that FUD is a LIAR, and the Labour TV channel broadcasts lies and biased garbage every second of every day.
Make the choice, stop paying the bas**rd TV licence.
We did it, you will be amazed at how easy it is to break the cycle of daily mind numbing crap that the population put up with.
No excuses.
I reckon FUD had a plate of cakes on the table in front of Brian Taylor to distract him from honest journalism.
Mind you, honest and BBC = oxymoron
Gary
That clip has actually been available since 7th March at the following ‘report’
link to bbc.co.uk
I don’t know but that clip gives the never ending impression that Murph the Smurph actually believes in the old adage that if you keep talking long enough and loud enough then the interviewer will forget what the question was and move on to another question.
Break out the old BBC Brian Taylor saying:
Nothing to see here move along now please!
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to en.wikipedia.org
According to the main UK article the Conservatives has 302 seats. However according to the Scotland article that total was only reached by the addition of two independent allied parties who contributed 31 seats so they only had a total of 271 seats. Labour had a total of 295. And the party that gave them a majority? the Liberals, who else.
Point is that you might try to pretend there’s only ever been a unitary Conservative party in the UK, doesn’t mean it’s true.
There might be another instance since 1929 when universal surfrage was introduced though, which by itself is a tell that the Labour party are being very specific. That they’re still wrong is the icing on the cake.
Presumably MSM journalists and BBC bods read sites like Wings otherwise they wouldn’t be doing there jobs properly.
Oops…
Anyway assuming that they are can any of them tell me why they are not doing the job properly?
Do any of them have the courage to ‘fess up and whistle blow about why they have allowed their reputation to be so damaged?
We need good incisive journalists. Often they are the only defence we have against those who would seek to do us down. They should be a lynch pin of the democratic process. But instead those at the BBC and in MSM seek – deliberately or by neglect – to undermine democracy.
It is really quite frightening when you think about it.
‘Jim Murphy Is A Liar’…. I’m not convinced, Stu.
I need more evidence because he sounds so sincere.
Are you suggesting he would not pursue issues with conviction if unelected and is only in it for the £67K salary & £200K expenses per annum? Surely not.
Keep the lie simple, keep repeating it, have the media in your pocket (so as not to contradict) and PRESTO! The populace will come to believe it’s true.
That’s why I always correct this on Twitter or blt on the few online papers I read.
Young Mr Goebbels would be proud of McTernan ( and they call US Nazis!)
I thought the worst bit of this interview was when taylor
apologised to him for pushing a particular question.
WHY?
Are you feart of mr smurphy brian?
The real problem with the Westminster parties is, they know when the SNP pay a wee visit, their corrupt wee club is going to get a big clear out.
This is one of the many reasons why they are panicking, there have been far to many dodgy, underhand deals done over the years.
The SNP will not be bought for any price.
As for the BBC, tick tock
Gary
Just in case you missed this first time around.
link to tinyurl.com
Poor Emily Maitlis.
@caz-m At Lunchtime BBC Reporting Scotland they did note the improvement in A&E figures know doubt begrudgingly having to report them, Eleanor Bradford must have been gutted. When BBC Scotland have some positive news items about the SNP Scottish Government they sometimes are shown at lunchtime only when the audience must be tiny and of course by 6:30pm they have found and output as many negative reports on the SNP Scottish Government they can find.
Gary45% says:
I reckon FUD had a plate of cakes on the table in front of Brian Taylor to distract him from honest journalism.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! choke!cough! heeheehee!
So that’s why he apologized,he wanted a wee cake,or 2.
Jim Murphy is a Liar and speaks out of his waste expulsion pipe. Loads of shite.
We can now fact check almost as quickly as they can lie…
But lying works!
Proven to do so already by the No campaign
during indyref.
That some No voters have since realised that
makes no difference (until next time!) as the result
was all that mattered.
Jim Murphy is a liar.
(and quite creepy)
OT – Don’t wish anyone any ill or harm but karma can be a bitch..
link to bbc.co.uk
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels:
On the “Big Lie”.
Don’t know why SLAB thinks it’s a vote winner. Even if every man and his dog doesn’t know it’s a lie it is irrelevant. Nobody in Scotland cares. We know that every vote for the SNP means a vote to help keep the Tories out AND kick the RED Tories out…AND much MORE than that.
Nana Smith – thank you for the link to an excellent article, probably the best I have seen on Huffpo on the subject of Scotland. You provide a great source of useful links, it must keep you busy – I hope you are not neglecting the weans!
Reading that article I suddenly realised what I think may be why Labour seem to be so shite these days. Their problem is that they have got a posh English version of Gordon Brown in London and a totally unbelievable Tony Blair impersonator in charge of Slab in Glasgow.
I just had an image of Milliband and Murphy walking on to the stage of the Glasgow Empire theatre in around 1960…
What the likes of Brian Taylor did there ruins his reputation
everyone expects politions to stray from the truth (although murphy takes it to new levels)
but for a journalist to blatently not correct something he knows is wrong only puts him down in the eyes of the public
not just yes/no voters but everyone in other parts of the uk
His geography is shite as well.
He didnae visit 100 towns on his tour. He visited 99. Burnbank is in Hamilton.
The founding fathers of the USA had it . . .
“We hold these truths to be self-evident” … That Murphy lies! That Labour politicians lie!
Our day shall come!
Brian Taylor et al. Get your unionist fingers out your unionist arses and stop making fools of yourself.
Folk are noticing your shoddy work.
@clochoderic
Haha my ‘weans’ are both rather big men. The dug has a rather hang dog expression lately though!
Oops!
First up we had Gisele Stewart.
link to morningstaronline.co.uk
Next up we had Kenneth Baker.
link to archive.today
Now we have this.
link to morningstaronline.co.uk
I wonder if at any point RED Ed or Murph the Smurph will ever come round to the idea that everyone, well almost, apparently want Labour to join in a Grand coalition with the Tories. I wonder who will be the next *ahem* name to pop their head above the parapet on this matter.
I think what the Right Horrible (sorry Honourable) Jim Murphy meant was the biggest liars get to form the Government. So now you understand why it is neck and neck between to two shades of Toryism.
It seems that Jeremy Clarkson has suggested that Jim Murphy was talking absolute shit when he said the biggest party gets to form
the government!
Well the BBC can accept the racial slurs, the misogyny, the bullying, but no why can he start telling the truth about Murphy!
Who does he think he is?
Smurph travelled to 100 towns on the same tank of gas! lol
caledonia says:
“What the likes of Brian Taylor did there ruins his reputation
everyone expects politions to stray from the truth ”
Agreed! Taylor blew it, big time. It was the perfect chance to nail Murphy and generate some reporting worth watching.
The labour Party could’nt form a Queue, they’d be scared they’re friends Stab them in the back,ah la Lamentable Lamont.
Surely at some point a lie becomes counterproductive ?
He might fool some people, but at the cost of his credibility with other more informed voters.
It’s not as if it’s an opinion or something that can be argued.
It is simply a LIE designed to trick people.
The Robin McAlpine article at Bella is apt.
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Especially the section: What if Scotland has computers?
It’s as if they forget the internet exists.
Surely people must be thinking, if he is lying about this, then what else is he lying about?
I’m glad this article is up to expose this.
Hopefully when people type Jim Murphy into Google, it will soon auto-complete as Jim Murphy Liar.
Brian Taylor: big (!) Dundee Labourite!
I think Askimet is swallowing my comments *shakes fist*
Ah still cant get er that Universal Adult Sufferage bit,kin sombody explain that to me ,or is it the case of DimJim showing aff his Educational Qualification NOT.
He’s a liar, an arsehole and a Fabian. The one thing he isn’t, is a socialist.
I thought old Brian Taylor was retiring after the Indyref…..and now he’s not?
Brian’s “Nick Robinson moment”?
Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, added: “The truth is this is an election that none of us could predict as it unfolded and even this evening is entirely unpredictable.
“I think all options are still open, including for example a Labour-Liberal coalition.”
link to archive.today
Three thoughts:
1. Someone may be ahead of me on this, but what if the Twittersphere were to light up with a link to this article? Tweet it to Murphy with the hashtag #sueusifyoudare. See what happens.
Share it around on Facebook, on other blogs…wherever. Irrefutable shit is always fun.
2. Is there some way of making a public challenge to him? It would ideally need to be live TV or radio. I don’t know when or how that would be possible, but I’d say it’s worth bringing up to any and every Labour politician on Call Kaye or Question Time or wherever.
3. There are some other questions that need to be answered too. What if Labour are the largest party but still don’t have a majority? It’s back to the old trope of Labour NEEDING Scotland. We know they don’t, really. If they swing right enough and the Tories are bad enough, they can win England and Wales. What’s changed is that the opposition in Scotland is left of centre AND exposes the failings of Westminster, win or lose. If they win, they show that Labour are not attached to Scotland, don’t represent Scotland but actually do NEED Scotland while pulling Labour to the left – exactly where the London party doesn’t want to go. If Labour DO refuse a deal, it is an explicit rejection of Scotland’s place in the union. Referendum in the manifesto next year, majority win, referendum in 2018, 60/40 win and boom! There’s your dinner. Independence in 2020.
What Jim is saying I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the labour. I am now shiting myself becuase I am going to loss my job, so yes I will say anything to keep my 67 thousnad plus expense’s wouldnt you, come on we all know that lying is much more easier than telling the truth electorate always beleives labour because we have the papers on side.
@ clochoderic
I think you’ll find we’re awe Nana’s weans.
It seems to me that all and every one of Murphy’s lying agendas is designed for one audience especially,the elderly uninformed TV fed vulnerable.
These poor souls still believe in all the BBC/STV etc. News programmes and think if BBC/STV say it, it must be true
He almost came out and said ‘old’ at one point
There’s even a reference to WW2 ffs,it’s as plain as the nose on your face.
Just like indyref-Project Fear- these rats know that they can still influence older armchair voters and that is about the only group they can get to and don’t they know it.
If you got some spare time try to spend a bit of it with this demographic group and enlighten them about what’s really going on.
Not such a bad idea,most of these same people love a bit of company and a wee chat.
When he repeats this mantra about the largest party always forming the government, Jim Murphy comes across as simply such a weird sounding individual. It’s hard to believe that there’s anyone who is persuaded by this line which makes me wonder if Jim Murphy knows something that I don’t.
Or he’s just weird.
He’s beyond weird!
I’ll settle for creepy.
And weird.
CREEPY WEIRDO.
This guy is a bottle of chips with a big waste expulsion pipe
But I don’t want the party with the biggest numbers of seats to govern, be it Labour or Tory. I want the SNP to have and to execute power at Westminster via policy by policy agreement with whatever Tory party, red or blue or khaki assumes “power” – in the meantime.
And following the meantime I want independence, Not Devo whatever, I want to be free from Westminster power.
We can’t realistically stop SLAB from lying and making the vulnerable vote for them. We might influence a few but we have to target those who are capable of thinking. Let’s not build our hopes too high for the GE. Let’s win what we can and build again from there. Meantime I am sure that Jim Murphy will be quick to tell us that he isn’t a liar and explain how this particular misunderstanding has arisen.
Jim Murphy cannot be prosecuted. He lies with impunity as do the press (with one minor exception) but at least we are not compelled to pay for their lies by buying their “news”papers. The BBC however lie and abuse their charter without fear of prosecution and we ARE compelled to pay them to do so unless we are willing to give up watching or recording live broadcasts by ANY broadcaster.
We live in a banana republic where we are the bananas.
Show your disgust of BBC bias and lies by joining the peaceful demonstration on March 15 in George Square at 2pm then on to Pacific Quay. Fortunately that is also Mother’s Day so you can give the old bat a day out and bring her as well.
It’s true up to a point but the statement is missing it’s second part,
‘If they can command a majority’.
If the red and blue Tories go into coalition after May 7th will the Unions stop bankrolling the Labour Party?
Jim Murphy,
Your starter for ten.
True or False: Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you.
Correct!
And for your bonuses, 5 points each, no conferring.
True or False:
1. You’re a mediocre man doing a mediocre job.
2. Re: SLAB, you can’t shit on your own doorstep and expect it not to smell.
3. It’s not too late, you can still go back to college.
Excellent, 20/20. Keep telling the truth, and you’ll go far. Far far away.
—————————————-
Believers 45, Collaborators 55.
But the tide is turning and the dream shall never die.
If Labour and Tory form a coalition and SNP have a majority.Its goodbye Westminster. The majority of Scotland will not have voted for either so Scotland can declare independence.
However back in the real world it will never happen for that very reason.
Whaddaya mean Jim, some slight arithmetical error?!
—————————————-
Believers 45, Collaborators 55.
But the tide is turning and the dream shall never die.
TWO DEBUNKING TEMPLATES
The reason Murphy keeps using this canard is surely because Labour’s internal polling and Focus Groups are telling them it sways the voter’s choice toward Labour (The “more likely to vote labour” metric).
The may believe that once the meme goes viral and becomes embedded it will be impossible to effectively challenge it.
That they continue to beat this horse suggests to me the numbers indicate a very significant shift in sentiment will occur if they only can get a critical mass of the electorate to believe it.
Every opportunity I get to debunk this I take. I would be useful were we to do the debunking on an industrial scale, because Labour are deploying the canard everywhere all the time.
Below are two templates that can be cut and pasted as appropriate any time you encounter the bullshit, should you choose to do so. One is longer than the other but neither are alas, neither are brief.
Murphy said [or whomever]: “It is a simple fact that in every election since before the [second world war/since universal suffrage/ et al], the largest party has gone on to form the government.”
“We need to do everything we can to stop the Tories being the largest party, and the way to do that is to vote for Scottish Labour.”
“We can’t let David Cameron back into Downing Street by the back door.”
Let’s start with the deeply disingenuous statement originally conjured up by the McDougall/McTernan axis: “At every UK election since before the Second World War/universal suffrage, the party with the most seats has won the keys to power.”
That is because in nearly every case the largest party has also been the MAJORITY PARTY.
Now it should not be difficult for any higher primate to work out that in that case OF COURSE the largest party forms the government – not per se because it is just the largest party, but because IT IS THE MAJORITY PARTY.
Murphy misrepresents again and again, and the [Guardian/BBC/MSM delete as appropriate] reports it as gospel again, and again. Not ONCE has a Guardian/BBC/MSM journalist called Murphy on this.
He is deliberately trying to deceive the electorate and wittingly or unwittingly, this paper/broadcaster is aiding and abetting that deception by offering NO challenge whatsoever to Murphy’s deeply misleading statement.
Does the paper/BBC/msm see itself as simply a conduit for Labour Party propaganda or is there a legitimate expectation on the part of readers/viewers/listeners that this article/segment from the this journal’s/network’s Political Correspondent should contain a modicum of considered analysis?
The case at issue here in the coming election is the exception, where no party has a majority – i.e., where we have a hung parliament.
Let’s look at an actual real-life example, shall we? 1923 election result gave us a hung parliament :
Con 258
Lab 191
Lib 158
Who formed the government? Why, LABOUR FORMED THE GOVERNMENT.
They had FAR fewer seats than the Tories, but they still formed a minority government BECAUSE THEY COULD COMMAND THE CONFIDENCE OF THE HOUSE. That is to say, what matters is not who comes first or second in a hung parliament, but who can put together a majority to win a vote of confidence. Coming first or second in a hung parliament is of no consequence – it’s all about commanding a majority.
Additionally, the Cabinet rules governing procedure make it plain that in the event of a hung parliament the incumbent PM always gets first shot at forming a government.
So EVEN IF LABOUR WAS THE LARGEST PARTY Cameron would STILL get first dibs.
Murphy: “We can’t let David Cameron back into Downing Street by the back door.”
What back door? There is no back door.
ALL, repeat ALL, that matters in our parliamentary system is whether or not you can command a majority in the House of Commons.
If you command a majority in the House you can form a government – period. It matters not one bit whether you are the largest party or whether the parties comprising the majority also comprise a majority of the popular vote.
Let’s recap so you are in no doubt –
1. The Party that commands a majority in the House will form the next government and that is not necessarily the largest party.
2. Even minority governments must command a majority in votes of confidence and supply.
3. It doesn’t matter who gets first dibs at forming a government. ALL that matters is which party or group of parties can command a majority in the House and win the confidence vote.
4. It does not matter who may command the popular vote, nor who may be the incumbent PM
5. Consider the following: exemplar results May 7, 2015 election
Con 300
Lab 280
SNP 46
Oth 24
Lab + SNP = 326 = A MAJORITY OVER ALL OTHER PARTIES IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS (Sinn Fein and Speaker’s seats NOT excluded)
The SNP holds the balance of power. Since the SNP will ONLY prop-up a Labour government, there can ONLY be a Labour minority government OR a Lab/SNP coalition government, even though Labour are the SECOND largest party and even though Cameron in the incumbent PM.
There cannot possibly be a Conservative Government if the SNP hold the balance of power, because the SNP will never support them and they couldn’t win the confidence vote.
It therefore is untrue, false, and complete mince, to assert that the largest party WILL form the next government or that coming second in a hung parliament will let the Tories in through the back door.
Whether a party is the largest party in a hung parliament or not offers ZERO operational advantage.
Now, why isn’t the Guardian/BBC/msm informing its readers/viewers listeners of this?
.
ALTERNATE ABBREVIATED VERSION
Remedial British Constitutional Theory for Jim Murphy, Ed Miliband, and ethically or cognitively challenged Labour apparatchiks everywhere.
1. For every parliamentary vote Tories win they will ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE a majority of the votes cast to be in their favour.
2. NO MAJORITY OR MINORITY GOVERNMENT CAN BE FORMED WITHOUT WINNING A VOTE OF CONFIDENCE.
3. NO VOTE OF CONFIDENCE CAN BE WON WITHOUT A MAJORITY OF THE VOTES CAST BY MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT BEING IN FAVOUR OF IT.
4. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO IS THE LARGEST PARTY. ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHO CAN COMMAND A MAJORITY IN AN INITIAL VOTE OF CONFIDENCE AND IN ANY VOTE THEREAFTER .
5. If the SNP hold the balance of power there cannot possibly be a Tory government because the SNP will ONLY prop-up a labour government.
6. If the SNP hold the balance of power there WILL be a Labour government. The alternative should Miliband refuse to take power, is another election immediately on the heels of the last one.
7. The only way a Tory minority government is possible if the SNP hold the balance of power IS IF LABOUR VOTE ONE IN OR REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE IN A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE OF A CARETAKER TORY GOVERNMENT.
If the SNP hold the balance of power, only Labour can stop Labour forming the next government of the United Kingdom, by refusing to accept the will of the electorate in dealing with the SNP.
Will no one in the chattering class take this dissembling pol to task on his gross violation of the public trust?
@ Christian Wright Well Said and so true. But how do we get it out to the General Public. I wish it could go Viral all over the Internet. Aye till I die.
I have spent an hour or so trying to think up the constructive criticism of Murphy which follows.
What a tube that man is.
A wee joke: Jim Murphy goes out one saturday morning with his golf clubs, and his new neighbour sees him and shouts, “Hey Jim, I’ve got clubs, can I join you for a wee round?”.
Jim replies, “Are you a member then?”
Neighbour replies, “No, are you?”
Jim replies, “Yes, I’m Jim Murphy MP, I’m a country member”.
Neighbour replies, “I remember Jim, the whole fucking country remembers”.
Stephen.
In every newspaper article that addresses issue, if there’s a below the line comment section – just cut and paste or do your own thing. I try to make it a habit now.
Difficult to get the info out to the low-information (LI) voters, though. Memes are inculcated via BBC mostly – repetition after repetition. Theory being the LI voters absorb the memes through process of osmosis – the way they sell toothpaste (and just about everything else).
Not going to counteract that by going door to door no matter how convinced activists are to contrary. Polling data demonstrates that to be THE least effect method of persuasion.
Some may not see it this way but Labour are carpet bombing the electorate with this poo through every available MSM distribution channel. THEY control the megaphone. New/alternative political media channels will not reach these folks to any meaningful extent. It’s gonna be tough with them.
Murphy would not be continuing to pursue this, I think, if he did not see a real possibility of a big payoff for the effort. His belief will be grounded in / based on, empirical evidence.
Labour have relied on voter apathy even back to when a’ wir a lad delivering campaign leaflets close by close in rat-infested old Townhead.
Excruciatingly painful watching Humza failing to grasp opportunity to skewer Dugdale on QT last week – thing set itself up beautifully and he reacted by doing . . . absolutely nothing. I thought it gross negligence and an act of political malfeasance, tell the truth.
A lie unchallenged is a lie believed.
Why isn’t Jim Murphy ordering Labour councillors in Stirling and North Ayrshire to relinquish their control of the councils? In both cases they aren’t the largest party.
When Blair talks about biggest party he is thinking of the old fashioned beer belly’s the mainstay of the Labour Party in Scotland are carrying.
I do love how Jim can be called a liar on here (and else where) as he’ll never challenge that in a court of law.
There will be no high profile liable/slander case as he knows he is telling porkies..
He keeps wheeling out this phrase as if it’s true to the point where he does believe it is true.
My fear is that enough people will not have this lie exposed to them. I knew someone who told me that not voting for Labour was a vote for the Tories. She believed this was actually the case and not in any metaphorical sense. A lot of people aren’t very bright.
“Why, more than a month after it was comprehensively and unarguably disproven, is Scottish Labour still knowingly, deliberately, publicly lying to the people of Scotland?”
You have to ask? It’s the last act of a desperate man.
(I don’t care if it’s the first act of Henry V, I’m still voting SNP!)
Murphy….”When I’m First Minister of Scotland!”
There’s wiser eating grass, as ma auld Heilan grannie used tae say.
Not only is Murphy a liar, But Brian Taylor is a useless idiot incapable of doing his job
@Chris Kilby, not Henry the fifth, more James the turd.
It is interesting that you gloss over the first point in the clip, namely that the SNP supported Margaret Thatcher’s vote of no confidence in the Callaghan government that brought about the election that gave us the Thatcher years.
Not sure where the lie is either. Of course, various permutations and combinations are possible but, in practice, the largest party – in terms of numbers of seats – has formed the government.
A party will, unquestioningly, form the government if it holds a majority of WM seats. If it holds a majority of WM seats then it is, by definition, the largest party.
But a party can be the largest party but not command a majority in WM. And THAT is the part Murphy is totally fudging.
So, in short, in the situation we are headed for in May where a hung parliament is the likely outcome, the “largest party” might not form the government.
Stop lying to the people of Scotland, Murphy.
@Phil Robertson:
Go away and read Callaghan’s memoirs about 1979, you may learn things.
Also, you agree that Labour’s actions on North Ayshire and Stirling Council are illegitimate?
The above and the one from the Scotland Office were binned.
It’s beyond a joke that these leaflets are being distributed by the posties.
They are all too feart to come to peoples doors and meet them face to face and get a few facts flung at them.
OOOPPs that should have been on the other thread.
Tamson says:
Go away and read Callaghan’s memoirs about 1979, you may learn things.
Also, you agree that Labour’s actions on North Ayshire and Stirling Council are illegitimate?
To deal with the facts: the vote was lost by one vote so the action of the SNP was decisive.
Analogies with councils are bit tenuous. Councils use an STV system which, by design, produces far fewer outright majorities than the FPTP system used in parliamentary elections.
@Phil Robertson:
“To deal with the facts: the vote was lost by one vote so the action of the SNP was decisive.”
It was no more decisive than the votes of the Liberals, or the 34 Labour MPs who voted for the Cunningham amendment which led to the confidence vote. But the Rev has covered this ridiculous Labour whine pretty comprehensively before.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
As to the council thing, the voting system is irrelevant, since Labour have never mentioned it. And of course that’s only half the point here: if “voting Labour is the only way to stop the Tories”, why do Labour seem so keen to form coalitions with them in Scottish local government?
Every time he repeats this lie I write (email) to my Labour Mp and Labour MSP in Inverclyde. I ask why Jim Murphy is lying. In the beginning they would put up some spurious explanation. Now, after i sent them Murphy’s and Alexander’s claims in 2010, they just don’t reply anymore. I firmly believe now that many SLAB MPs are embarrassed by Murphy, but don’t have the balls to do anything about it.
Tampson – North Ayrshire is an SNP minority administration. Maybe you were thinking of East Ayrshire which is an SNP/Conservative coalition!
You know things are very bad for SLAB, when after they are caught out flat out lying, you get their trolls coming onto Wings and elsewhere (Bella C being a recent one as well), and bringing up the preposterous 1979 stabbed in the back SLAB myth. The fact that they never mention the betrayal of Scotland over the 40 per cent rule tells you everything you need to know about their commitment to the Scottish nation. The fact that they are not even honest enough to admit that the Labour government of 1974-1979 was a complete shambles, is another indicator of the mindset of people like the poster Phil Robertson.
It is because of trolls, like Phil Robertson and their elected mouthpieces, such as Jim Murphy, Margaret Curran, Davidson, Ian Murray, Kezia Dugdale, McTernan, Blair McDougall, Dalgety, Harris and all rest of the troughers, that they are in the state and predicament they find themselves in.
Phil Robertson: “ It is interesting that you gloss over the first point in the clip, namely that the SNP supported Margaret Thatcher’s vote of no confidence in the Callaghan government that brought about the election that gave us the Thatcher years.”
Really and truly, Phil, who gives a shit? How is it relevant to today and why should voters care? Do you know? It happened a third of a century ago. Most of the principals involved are dead and buried or gaga.
Even if that were not so, what exactly is the point you are making? Isn’t true that you have no earthly notion of why that event has salience today? That you’re putting it out there because you have bugger all else to say?
Not a rhetorical question, old thing. The floor is yours.
Christian Wright says:
“How is it relevant to today and why should voters care? Do you know? It happened a third of a century ago. Not a rhetorical question, old thing. The floor is yours.”
Interesting comment from someone who quoted the 1923 election in a earlier posting but here goes:
The main relevance is that it was the last time the Scottish Labour MPs made the difference to which was the largest party in the Commons. Which is something that seems to interest political commentators at present.
It is also the last government to be run on “knife-edge” – Labour, at best, had a majority of three. Again may be of relevance post-May.
Finally, it is a topic that seems to crop up regularly on these pages, last appearance was in January.
@Phil Robertson:
Apologies, I meant South Ayrshire. There are more Lab/Con coalitions than Con/SNP ones, btw.
Now back to the point: if your party is continually telling voters they are best-placed to defeat the Tories, why are they cutting deals with them in local government?