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Wings Over Scotland

How it’s going

Posted on January 24, 2021 by

We’re not entirely sure why the SNP’s charade of a “National Assembly” over indyref strategy is still going on today at all, since the party pre-announced the outcome of it on Friday night. But just in case you were wondering:

This morning on the Andrew Marr show, Nicola Sturgeon had accused Boris Johnson of being “frightened of democracy”. We hope the members of her party who spent six quid on a pass to be allowed to attend an online rubber-stamping session they weren’t even allowed to comment on appreciate the irony.

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355 to “How it’s going”

  1. Andy Ellis says:

    The party can’t afford a “Nicolae Ceausescu on the balcony” moment, even if it is virtual.

    Wrong thing will not be tolerated.

    Plan B is wrong think.

  2. Margaret Lindsay says:

    Dissent will not be tolerated.

  3. Effijy says:

    The SNP leadership now sees themselves too good for the party members.

    They are as guilty as the Unionist’s Parties for blocking Scotland’s voice of the people.

    If you can’t answer questions or counter policy attacks then politics isn’t for you!

  4. Bob Mack says:


    All we want in your vote. Nothing else. No opinion. No input.
    No arguement.No questions. No criticism.No viewpoint.

    No chance.

  5. ScottieDog says:

    Already thinking ahead to 2024. They’re a joke.

  6. Graham says:

    Was there any outcome?

    Has anyone else actually written an unapproved plan B?

  7. P says:

    Fast becoming a sideshow in the political circus

  8. kapelmeister says:

    Sturgeon demands robots.

  9. susanXX says:

    You’ve nailed it Bob Mack. Pseudo democracy. What depths NS SNP has sunk to.

  10. Aunty Flo says:

    Chatting not allowed, you basket of deplorables!

    Did you think this was a democracy?

    That your voice mattered?

    Time to wake up and smell the Irn Bru!

  11. Organisers getting sustained pressure back.

    I suspect that they are frantically rejigging breakout sessions to try and minimise pressure for a plebiscite.

    I’ve repeated shared your manifesto amongst Yes groups and SNP internal chat 🙂

  12. kapelmeister says:

    They’ve taken apart party democracy. It’s a National Disassembly.

  13. Stuart MacKay says:

    Splendid move. Instead of at least giving the pretence of listening and letting people vent they decided to close down all debate and so magnified their problems in one stupendously idiotic click of a mouse.

    Their strategic brilliance know no bounds.

  14. Shug says:

    I noticed the Marr show had a journalist on to talk for the union from the Yorkshire Post. Why the Yorkshire Post!! Was there nobody in London.

  15. Flower of Scotland says:

    We will soon be on a session of training and why we need both votes SNP! Why did I pay £6 for such nonsense? I don’t know if I can stick with this amateurish crap!

  16. Kenny says:

    If they put a commitment to hold a referendum in their manifesto can they put a star next to it?

    To mean: if Boris Johnson allows us (he won’t).

    Otherwise it is false marketing.

  17. 100%Yes says:

    Before 2014 our Lord and master was the British state from 2016 its been Nicola Sturgeon and her vision of how she follows in the footsteps of the British state and there happy for her to do it because she acting in the interest of her Lord and Masters.

  18. Eileen Carson says:

    As another 20k members cut up their membership card I hear the refrain “Next time your found, with your chin on the ground There a lot to be learned, so look around …” you can’t win an election without vote[r]s – end of!

    I WAS intending to vote SNP1 and ISP2 but much depends on SNP behaviour etc between now and May, I may even withhold my constituency vote. Sad isn’t it when you are so disillusioned with the “party of independence” that you leave them and join ISP [but I did]

  19. TNS2019 says:

    Sturgeon is controlled by Swinney and (obviously) Murrell who have chosen to embark on a nation-building exercise that is predicated on control. It is the Soviet approach rather than a Nordic/Oceanic model and it will fail because the majority of independence supporters want Scotland to be a progressive nation.
    It will also fail because ‘control’ equates to scrutiny-minimisation which in terms leads to inefficiency and poor performance.
    Control is achieved through crony-ism and by placing sympathetic/sycophantic individuals at the head of all key agencies including the national regulators, SPSO, Crown Office etc.
    As the Rangers case (v Lord Advocate) illustrates, the judicial systems can sometimes expose the fragility of such an approach, especially when complacency takes over.
    Our own case is very similar. Bear in mind that most of us want independence but we also want rid of the current leadership of the SNP who have done so much harm to the cause of nationalism.
    Watch and weep not only for Scotland, but for the 25 kids who suffered so much harm and the 51 staff who lost their jobs.
    Corruption has no place in the Scotland that we want to build:

  20. 100%Yes says:

    @Eileen Carson 12:03 pm

    My family have also thought about not voting in constituency vote and given the second vote to ISP.

  21. Chris Downie says:

    Andy Ellis: Your analogy is fitting, because the Sturrell Mafia are Poundshop Ceaucescus.

  22. Dave M says:

    Man, I don’t think even the Labour party at the height of its control-freakery, was as bad as this. It’s astounding (but not a surprise).

  23. Eileen Carson says:

    I sincerely hope I’m wrong in thinking Marco Biagi was bought off with this new post does anyone know? Am I just being an auld cynic? I have memories of the Stirling adoption!!

  24. Cenchos says:

    The SNP leadership are all fur-coat and air-nosed these days, all busy-busy attributing their own shit-stink to others.

  25. PhilM says:

    There’s a contradiction here…you can’t tell the independence movement to respect the gold standard route to independence – an agreed referendum – whilst having the dirtiest of hands which – HELLO! – everyone can see.
    So the message is respect and trust the corrupt leadership?!
    Have you lost your fucking minds?

  26. true scott says:

    I always felt it would be ridiculous to compare Scotland with China – but you can feel the fist tightening on the reins of power, and the arrogance that comes from the popularity that Sturgeon has gained by appearing credible on TV. A friend of mine is a non-politico, a floater on Indy – but thought that Nicola was a strong leader and planned to vote SNP next time. Later in the conversation I described the Hate Crime legislation in it’s original form (the form in which it would likely have passed with an SNP majority) and asked them to guess the country. China? Iran? North Korea? They were shocked when I explained it was legislation in flight in the Scottish Parliament. The thing that terrifies me – and led me to this site in the first place – is the slow death of democracy in our country. Parliamentary reform would be needed post Indy – but the winners of the first election may see it differently. As they say of Marxists – and maybe the post-Indy SNP – they hold free and fair elections. Once.

  27. tartanfever says:

    Eileen Carson –

    Firm decision in my camp, no constituency vote and list vote for ISP.

    Can’t wait to ask some awkward questions of my prospective SNP candidate if they dare hold any public meetings.

  28. Kate says:

    kapelmeister says:
    24 January, 2021 at 11:51 am
    Sturgeon demands robots.

    And by Christ she has them in abundance..

  29. MaggieC says:

    I suppose it’s an easy way to have a crowdfunder without calling it a crowdfunder , just call it a National Assembly and don’t allow the members to have their say at the National Assembly , LOL

  30. TruthForDummies says:

    @Eileen Carson

    Biagio made complaints about hoe much money Robertson was raising for the selection process.
    He lost the selection
    Was offered National Secretary a very powerful post in the part, but pulled out saying he needed something paid.
    Hence Biagio who couldn’t get himself selected to stand as an MSP is our indy strategist

  31. Sharny Dubs says:

    Worse than Tory’s.

    They at least pay lip service to their party members.

  32. Willie says:

    I didn’t waste £6.00 on registering because a) I knew fine well that it would be a microphone rigged floor show and b) because why give the squandering rats any more money.

    Well, if things don’t change I have grave doubts about the SNP taking a majority of constituency seats. The need for an ISP is an absolute imperative, and of course, some very well thought of SNP or recently ex SNP members could target the dodgy SNP MSPs.

    Voter are not daft, can be very tactical, and moreover, Surgeon and her clique are now toxic , and will increasingly be seen so as such.

    Yep, but the National Assembly was just a cynical stage managed piece of pap where a clique apparatchik held the microphone button.

  33. Breeks says:

    Big awkward question is whether ISP should start looking beyond just contesting List seats.

    If you can’t join them, beat them.

  34. Kate says:

    I have said for a couple of years now, that I can not in good faith vote for the SNP as it is under the leadership of the corrupt MURRELS, With their many corrupt civil servants. The ONLY way I can ever vote for them in May, is if a plebiscite is called. OR, we are under a new leadership chosen & voted in by SNP members, No more Coronations.. That is not democracy at all.. But if we go into the May election with that party we have now intact.. Then I will Not be voting in the constituency..But will vote ISP on the list… I am done with the SNP & after May, I will be done with Scottish politics as well. As by then, we shall well & truly be under FULL Tory rule…

  35. Astonished says:

    Glad I didn’t waste £6. We have got to retreat and retrench to win. We are fighting on too many fronts. We have to accept we are being stage-managed into a woke/thoughtcrime nightmare. This is all Nicola sturgeon’s fault.
    To existing MSPs good luck trying to defend 50 year old men self-identifying into 15 year old girls changing rooms.


    I suggest a plan C – deface the ballot on the constituency vote in May ( I suggest “No to NS”) and ISP for the second vote. This should lead to few losses of SNP MSPs (And let’s face it none of them have spoken out – they deserve to go).
    Then when section 30 is again refused we get rid of Nicola, murrell, swinney, yusuf, and the rest of the woke. Then westminster becomes the plebiscite. A majority of indy MPs we begin negotiations for independence.( We can obviously deselect daddy bear, cosyfeet, mcdonald, nicholson and the rest of the guilty). Happily as Boris et al are such utter arseholes a westminster election may be before 2024.
    The loss of MSPs will concentrate minds wonderfully.
    I will never forgive Nicola , murrell, the wokeratti or the new NEC for failing Scotland.
    Of course we could go straight to plan B if the NEC and our MSPs would act. Sadly I think they are too cowardly. The prize would be they become the people who brought independence.

  36. Mchaggis69 says:

    To be fair, I’ve seen plenty people tweeting/suggesting the chat function is disabled at regular intervals, during presentations and when the actual time allocated for Q&A has passed.

    Not sure I see the conspiracy in this.

    Whether they *address* the over-riding concerns of members clearly on display is another matter.

  37. Ian McCubbin says:

    I am with Willie and Breeks. National assembly was n’t worth wasting £6 on to be muted and told what to do for May election and beyond.
    I do hope ISP stand for some dodgy SNP seats to get the Nicola cabal out.

  38. Wee Chid says:

    MaggieC says:
    24 January, 2021 at 12:25 pm
    One way of getting back the missing money – which will now, in part, be going into the pockets of one Marco Biagi – the ultimate strategist???

  39. Bob Mack says:

    Their disintegration is almost complete..The minute you disparage and ignore people who have supported you and enfured with you voluntarily ,then your decline is terminal.

    What could have been, can still be, but not under this leadership.

  40. 1971Thistle says:

    Is anyone else amazed at the speed at which things are now falling apart?

    The Inquiry seems to have been a catalyst; but the sight of Wishart (admittedly for a long-term offender), Arthur (who came out with the Catalan argument yesterday) and Doleman talking utter shite on Twitter, abusing independence supporters and fellow parliamentarians. It’s like a dystopian future where no one is in control*; there’s certainly no cohesion or party line beyond ‘Drink up and circle the wagons’.

    You get the impression of a framework of loyalists (small’ L’) clinging on as the building starts to crumble because they have no better alternative or capacity for independent though. Others are increasingly looking around for the emergency exits.
    I once interviewed an MEP for insights into how to lobby successfully. The one point he made that always stayed with me was this: “A successful politician (not a political leader) has to be seen to be on the winning side. If they support your aims initially, then change their mind, it’s because you’re going to lose, and by association they will look bad. At the point he said, there’s no point in arguing, just exit with as much grace as you can muster.

    So, I predict the party will splinter – very soon. There will be those – we know many of them – that see the writing on the wall and quickly wash their hands before the denouement. The others will keep rearranging the deckchairs before they go down with the ship. I doubt James Cameron will coming looking for that wreck…

    *Think Philip K Dick’s ‘Clans of the Alphane Moon’ (

  41. Marie Clark says:

    Dear god, is that it. Democracy SNP style, what an absolute shower of self serving arseholes they have become.

    I’m not a member, but if I was and had paid six quid to be shut up like that, I’d be asking for my money back.

    If the SNP don’t change tack anytime soon, they might get a very nasty surprise come May. I’m toying between not voting at all, and that would be a big deal for me after all that ladies went through for us to get the vote, or just voting ISP on the list. Jeez oh, that it has come to this.

  42. Republicofscotland says:

    They don’t want to here about a route that might actually lead to Scotland’s cessation from this one sided union. On the upside its good that more and more folk are beginning to realise that Sturgeon and her clique are frauds, and that they’ll not actually be a referendum held in the coming years.

    We need Sturgeon to stand down or resign, how that is brought about is another matter, we can’t begin to move down the path of removing Scotland from this union until this happens.

  43. Bob Mack says:


    . You do know that an alternative plan B was supposed to be duscussed?

    In fact, to be honest Im pretty fed up with types like you crawling under the carpet to find “reasonable” excuses for atrovious behaviour. If you prefer ignorance so be it. but dont expect to be tolerated by the sane minded on here.

  44. Effijy says:

    Look at this shit from McDougall who laughed at Scot hating Boris ever being PM

  45. How did they become New Labour so fast?

    Everyone knows how that ended when the realisation dawned that just maybe the Emperor didn’t have any clothes on after all.

    Tick tock…

  46. James Che. says:

    Who needs a National Assembly with elite at the top, going in layers downwards and stopping before it gets to the ordinary people like us. .
    A people first party.

  47. Flower of Scotland says:

    There are chat times. Maybe not when you want to chat but watching the last session about both votes for SNP and postal voting we were able to chat.

  48. Livionian says:

    General assemblies that only serve to rubber-stamp and are forbidden from any dissenting debate were commonplace in each and every single one of the awful communist regimes of the 20th century. Take this and the fact Sturgeon has surrounded herself with a politburo of Yes men and has an unobtainable grip over the party, and I ask SNP members, what’s the effing point?

    Leave the party and start a new independence alternative. The only thing that will make the SNP leadership take action is a pro-indy electoral rival, just as UKIP dragged the Tories over to a hard Eurosceptic stance.

  49. shug says:

    From the UK government committee plan on opposing independence. Take a moment to read and digest.

    To oppose a referendum and hope that causes the SNP to fight among themselves over tactics.

    Finally, if there is a referendum one day to control the timing and terms of the vote.

    If on reading this you recognise it stop it

  50. Jacqueline McMillan says:

    Reminds me of having a heart attack. Waves first and then layers and layers of pain. Struggling to breathe. I really can’t express my disgust. The current SNP leadership remind me of death. Get rid and we will survive and reclaim OUR Country.

  51. Elmac says:

    There will be no independence under the Murrells. That has been obvious for at least a year now. It seems likely that they intend to continue through the HR election in May and beyond in which case we have a quandary. Do we show our wrath at the polls by voting ISP or abstaining and risk unionist control of Holyrood? Or do we hope that the loss of Holyrood will be the catalyst to finally clear out this corrupt nest of liars and, if so, do we think that the Yes movement can survive 5 years of unionist control of Holyrood with all the damage that they are likely to do?

    I don’t know the answer. We are between a rock and a hard place and the only hope seems to be that the dam will break very shortly over the Salmond stitch up and the Murrells and their acolytes will be forced out with a bit of jail time thrown in. That would all need to happen very soon and may already be too late.

    I cannot speak for others but my family will not vote for proven liars (and I include all unionist parties in that). If that means losing Holyrood then so be it, the current SNP will never bring us independence anyway.

  52. cirsium says:

    @Bob Mack, 11.16


    Given the announcement on Friday, the assembly seems to have been for revenue generation.

  53. Bob Mack says:


    No. You missed one. Keep the SNP hierarchy in power. They need no other plan.

  54. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Sturgeon, with her access to widely-viewed platforms, trumps, for the moment, her critics and detractors who have no access to such platforms. Bad move, because when the dam inevitably breaks (to coincide with May’s Hollyrood elections) her catalogue of denial will be mercilessly used as evidence against her by those currently providing the said platforms. Needless to say: I’ll be sticking with, Wings.

    By what class of utter stupidity is it, that an otherwise intelligent woman from the Scottish working-classes, has placed herself on-the-horns of such an invidious situation, along with the legitimate aspirations of a huge number of her country-folk?

  55. Liz says:

    I will not vote SNP in the constituency vote unless there is a plebiscite election or a proper leader, not many of them to choose from.

    I will vote ISP on the list and will persuade everyone I know to do the same.

    As seen from James Kelly, SNP are currently 51% in the constituency vote.

    With Boris, Brexit, economy mess, it should be way higher.

  56. Daisy Walker says:

    @ bBob Mack re ‘all we want is your vote, nothing else.’

    Hmmm, think they’re quite found of our money as well, to be fair.

  57. PB says:

    So tired of this sh*tshow, starting to feel apathy creeping in where my first vote is concerned in May. The supposed ‘good guy’ I’d be voting for in May has been acting like a total prick this morning over this so not helping either.

    All I’m seeing is a poor carbon copy of how Sturgeon’s hero ran the US Dem party and lost to Trump because she couldn’t look in the mirror and accept people saw her for what she was and rightly hated her (and her husband) for it.

    Any ‘blue’ will not f**king do and any whiff of GRA or HCB in manifesto is an instant no vote for SNP for me, this nonsense has to end!

  58. Ross says:

    There has been a shift here. There’s clearly a plan B and a procedure they’re going through. It always was this but just not acknowledged til now. It plays better politically to face up to Westminster with a refreshed mandate crucially with a majority of votes and seats.

    It may be 2025 before it’s taken forward but indy is for the next century. Time is on its side if it’s a goer at all.

  59. shug says:

    Does anyone know what it was that Salmond and Sturgeon fell out about that caused Nicola to activate the conspiracy team.

  60. Andybhoy says:

    Re Nicola on Andrew Marr, my blink omimeter overheated when she was asked questions about Alex Salmond. Interesting how an innocent woman manged to avoid actually answering the questions asking her if she was involved in stitching up Alex Salmond. By contrast John Swinney, who I don`t rate highly btw, was on Politics Scotland and barely had a blink.

  61. Alison Brown says:

    The SNP hierarchy don’t want to hear what the YES movement thinks! They don’t even want to hear what their own members think. This is not democracy – they are as bad as as Boris and his Etonian British Nationalists.
    It is disgraceful that there is a refusal to even discuss a plebiscite Election in May. All this only means that there will be no referendum ‘legal’ or otherwise next year. Of course the Unionists councils will stop any ballot on a ‘wildcat’ referendum so it’s goodbye to Independence for another five years. I could weep.
    We need Alex back to front a list party in May.

  62. Beaker says:

    If this is what they do to do their own party, what will they do to the rest of Scotland?

  63. Bob Mack says:


    Oh please. Enough. Some on here have fought for Indy their whole life and may not even get the chance to see it under this clusterfeck SNP.

    No more excuses please. We are sick of them.

  64. Andybhoy says:

    Am I the only person who from the moment Oliver Mundell was turfed out the Parliament for calling the FM a liar, that the Scottish Tories have been playing a game where they are dangling tit bits, whilst knowing the full story as they wait on their moment to nail the FM ?

  65. Muscleguy says:


    Constituencies not for this time. If we have not voted somehow for indy by the next time then absolutely I think ISP, hopefully buoyed by short money from MSPs will be able to stand in constituencies to challenge the non Yes SNP directly. Saying don’t vote for them, they aren’t Yes, vote for us, we are.

    Not enough folk have seen the light but they will if there’s no movement. Be very hard for SNP not to move with ISP as the opposition. Every FMQ’s, every opportunity we will be at them. There will be no hiding place for delay or prevarication, we will be able to give our message to the media as well calling the SNP out. The media will love it ‘split in the Yes movement’. Too right, it’s already here.

    ISP is in large part an expression of the Yes movement’s frustration and desire for indy over all.

  66. James Che. says:

    All funded political parties eventually become corrupt or infiltrated, and that can be seen in every political partie across Britain, they spend loads of money (our money) usually buying big lawyers to get them out of trouble, all inquiries are already decided in advance, all lawyers have to do is manoeuvre the words and circumstances to suit their clients end results at as much expense as possible. That is not justice,
    A majority of snp and advocates, lawyers and barristers, solicitors should be booted out under a good number of charges,
    This is not the kind of Scotland we want, Scotland deserves better,
    The history of Scotland has always been decided by these like minded upper echelons, and look where we are in 2021.
    Today and to date the poor do not have lawyers, and no voice echos them in politics,
    As in the past we have to do this, we need to put our heads together as people of a nation and state the people are withdrawing from the treaty of the union as it no longer has followed its due diligence and principles, for the people on this side of the treaty.
    Of all the legal heads and politicians in Scotland whom has fought a sound basis that the people have the right to self determination. Not one.

  67. Saffron Robe says:

    Thank goodness for the party leadership that democracy can now be silenced at the switch of a digital button!

  68. Ross says:

    @bob and some of us want to see it and achieve it, not splurge ourselves like a tartan light brigade.

  69. frogesque says:

    Sticking with SNP1, ISP2. (or Martin Keatings 2 if he stands as Independent Indy on the list in Fife Region) Not going to bother renewing SNP membership in Feb.

    Late in the day to form and fund another Indy party before Holyrood in May and I’m not going to waste a vote but I think it’s now time to speak more openly and freely outwith the party.

  70. Eileen Carson says:

    “Biagio made complaints about hoe much money Robertson was raising for the selection process.
    He lost the selection
    Was offered National Secretary a very powerful post in the part, but pulled out saying he needed something paid.
    Hence Biagio who couldn’t get himself selected to stand as an MSP is our indy strategist”
    Thanks for that TruthForDummies it explains a lot, I guess ‘pulled out’ could easily equate to ‘bought off’

  71. Willie says:

    To change the subject a tad I read in the press much about the tragic Cameron House fire over three years ago.

    With the owners of the hotel having been found guilty of fire safety breach the owners will receive there sentence this week in the Dumbarton Sherriff Court.

    With the guilty verdict having been widely trailed in the press much attention has been given to the hotel having no safe procedure for disposing of the ash and embers. Indeed the fire service specifically warned the hotel of the fire risk of dealing with the embers in the way that it did. But the hotels failure and that of the hapless night porter doing his job is only part of the story and it is here that I suspect another government cover up.

    What kind of regulatory system is it that allows the fire service to identify a fire this is a public building and then for the operators to ignore it resulting in a horrendous inferno and the deaths of two innocent young men.

    And what of the fire itself. By all reports the localised fire in a cupboard quickly within no more than twenty minutes engulfed the entire building as the flames devastatingly fed by the chimney effect barrelled into the floor and roof spaces of the building. A veritable tinderbox waiting to explode, our government has been strangely silent these long three years on why such a fire risk was allowed to exist, why a public use certificate for the property was granted.

    All the hallmarks of our very own Grenfell Tower and not a word or action from our stage show First Minister. Yes this was an old building, but it should have had modern fire precautions and that has not been addressed by government.

    And no Cameron House is not the only fire substandard building in Scotland. Many of the approved new builds over recent years have Grenfell type cladding still not replaced. Indeed, not long before the Grenfell disaster the Scottish Government granted a derogation to a local authority to leave in place brand new cladding that had emerged as being not fully fire safe ( derogation means ……not quite safe but due to the cost of having to rip out millions of pounds of new work we’ll let it go and reduce the standards )

    Ah money and corporate interest talk in Nicola Sturgeon’s cosy governmental cabal and tragedy for those who lost their lives and their families, I mention this only because it is but another aspect of a rotten SNP leadership.

    Spin, spin, spin, or mute the microphone.

  72. robertknight says:

    To date, there have only been four occasions when I’ve entered a polling booth and NOT put an X in a box next to the SNP – all were referenda: 1997: 2011, 2014, 2016.

    I’ve read nothing on here to dissuade me from following my gut instincts in May…

    Constituency – Spoil the ballot paper

    List – ISP

    Assuming it goes ahead, May will be first time since 1987 I won’t have voted SNP – and I wasn’t even old enough to vote prior to that!

  73. Eileen Carson says:

    I’m with you Breeks @ 12.35 at least my unused vote in the constituency would have a home!

  74. @ Shug at 11:57 am: “I noticed the Marr show had a journalist on to talk for the union from the Yorkshire Post. Why the Yorkshire Post!! Was there nobody in London.”

    Because the view from London is that Scotland is the equivalent of a provincial English county, I should think. In BBC terms, where cricket and English football is reported as ‘national’ news, that’s exactly what we are.

  75. Bob Mack says:


    From where I stand there is absolutely no danger of the SNP splunging themselves for any reason. I think yku are safe enough on that score.

    Some of us however are unafraid to take the fight to the enemy whilst you hold. Careful you don’t take root. Keep jogging on the spot

  76. Ross says:

    Imagine not voting SNP in this election of all elections haha. MI6 doing a swell job if it scuttles the vote below 50percent. Got to hand it to them.

  77. Heaver says:

    shug says:
    24 January, 2021 at 1:28 pm
    Does anyone know what it was that Salmond and Sturgeon fell out about that caused Nicola to activate the conspiracy team.Sent

    Rev Stu says shes paranoid of AS returning and re-claiming the throne, so she fabricated this sexual misdemeanors minefield for him. Unfortunately for her, it looks like he has successfully tiptoed his way through and is now on the attack.

  78. Ross says:

    @bob I respect your frustration, I’m not detailing it all out again but I genuinely believe the process being followed will realise the goal. I don’t believe it is staying still. We want the same thing.

  79. Willie says:

    Message to Nicola.

    Can your government give us a statement of fire safety – building regulation standards. Could she tell us what is being done to upgrade standards, why the Cameron House fire standards were so poor.

    Can she tell us also why relatively new buildings in Scotland still have defective cladding despite Grenfell being nearly four years ago.

    People are dying because of inadequate regulation as Sturgeon wheeshts for regulation.

  80. Ross says:

    If the snp get fewer than 50percent of the vote here it leaves the unionists with a crutch to easily lean on. They were using it as a line last election and they’ll be entitled to it if sub 50 is the result again.

    Think carefully flirting with no hopers. Could be taking a great string from the Scots gvt bow. Spiting noses won’t take us anywhere.

  81. Bob Mack says:


    Believe what comforts you. Me? I will camlaign to eliminate Wishart. Already I have convinced several of my former fellow supporters of the SNP to ditch him ,spoil their vote on the constituency and vote ISP on the list.

    A Phoenix can only grow from ashes.

  82. katherine hamilton says:

    I left the SNP over a year ago now, because of the misogynistic wokeeeeee men. Why do members have to PAY to attend a “meeting”? They are basically taking the piss now. Do these members not already pay their subs?

    Honestly, brothers and sisters, dump them en masse. Maybe then they’ll see that SNP is not the Yes movement.

  83. David Holden says:

    I will still be voting SNP 1 in Argyll and Bute after all the effort we expended to ensure Ms Spear was not selected as candidate but this could be my last time if things don’t improve. At the moment it looks like ISP2 especially as Ms Spear is seeking the No 1 spot on the list. Much as I despair of the SNP and am still a member they would do well to have a look at the spectacular collapse in the Scottish Labour vote as they are heading the same way.

  84. robertknight says:

    Ross@ 1:55

    Not voting SNP for the Constituency doesn’t impact the List.

    How could Yoons claim “no appetite for Indy” if 55% of List votes went to Indy parties?

    Simple answer – they coudn’t!

    We can have a pro-Indy majority on the List without endorsing NS and her Woke cabal of conspirators on the Constituency vote.

  85. Daisy Walker says:

    Ross says:
    24 January, 2021 at 1:27 pm
    There has been a shift here. There’s clearly a plan B and a procedure they’re going through.
    Time is on our side’


    Scotland has never been in greater peril than the forthcoming next 5 years’.

    Devolution will be dismantled in front of our very eyes. That’s what the power grab/internal market bill and civil service hub in Edinburgh is for. So confident are they, they haven’t even bothered to hide it.

    Out NHS sold.

    Food standards, animal husbandry standards, environmental protections already being destroyed in the first month of brexit. And do you know why… because if the only food people can buy, makes them ill, and all the healthcare is private, you make a fortune. The ultimate wick bastard circular economy, but extremely lucrative for those and such as those, just don’t get ill.

    We’ve gone from the promise of devo max to the reality of devo nowt in 6 years, and that will be st niclas legacy, not some stupid, secret plan that doesn’t exist.

    Ake up and smell the bullshit.

  86. Daisy Walker says:

    In my voting area Swinney goes on both the constituency and list vote.

    I cannot vote for him ever again.

    2nd vote is definitely ISP provided they publish their manifesto that it’s a PEH.

    Ideally, I would like to see some analysis done on the weak SNP constituency seats, and independents, signed up to PEH stand their. In that way ISP cannot be accused of splitting the yes vote,

  87. Tannadice Boy says:

    129 MSPs of which in reality only a dozen are genuinely marginal seats. Unless there is massive swings and the polling doesn’t suggest that likelihood. An example is the 2 constituency seats in my city. Both SNP incumbent MSPs polled over 16000 votes in 2016. Even if every other single candidate formed a coalition they would not get near them. So mid to upper sixties for the SNP is the most likely outcome. A challenge at the constituency level by an new entrant Indy party was the most viable option. Late in the day for that to happen. The ISP I think will do well on the list vote but if the SNP get 68/69 MSPs like the rest of us they can be ignored. I don’t think Sturgeons resignation will change the electoral dial that much. But could change the direction of the SNP. Someone that could unite the movement and scrap unpopular policies. Remaining optimistic.

  88. Bob Mack says:

    The ONLY people who have my unconditional love and support are my family. Everybody else has to earn it.

    I gave it to the SNP because I thought they were sincere. They have by recent actions lost that support.

    We entered into a Psychological contract with them.Lead us to Independence and we wil! support you. That was the deal.

    Watching as opportunity passed by time and time again and as fools like Wishart began insulting the very people who worked to get him where he is, has destroyed that bond .

    I am free. Free to support who I like, whenever I like.

    I held my side of thd deal. The SNP did not. They actually pushed me away or told me I had no voice.

  89. Effijy says:

    Fire regulations have been good overall and the same across the U.K.
    The Cameron House Fire was started by the idiocy of outing hit embers
    in a bag and then in a cupboard.

    There is only so much you can do if some acts in such an irresponsible manner.
    I expected to hear that someone had made mistakes on the Fire Alarm design
    with inadequate detectors and or soundest.

    Was the bi annual engineering tests carried out and weekly management checks?

    We need to know who in central government signed off using flammable cladding.

  90. Davie Oga says:

    If Scotland were already an independent country, there would be an army. And if a government behaved in the manner of Sturgeon’s SNP, I would fully support the military intervening in order to restore, honour, justice, and an electoral system where the grifter’s can actually be removed from Parliament.

    Better an honest General who cares for his nation than an elected government whose members have indulged us with

    Perverting the course of justice
    Malicious prosecution
    The altering of official records
    Targeting of dissidents
    Contempt of court

    Really. As far as bad governments go, the only thing they haven’t done is killing anyone – as far as we are aware of.

  91. Dan says:

    @ Ross

    We wouldn’t require to be discussing SNP vote percentage share, or the question of whether or not to vote SNP with our constituency votes, if the SNP were focused on the important stuff we elected them to do, rather than trying to push highly divisive policies that the electorate haven’t given a mandate to implement.
    Oh, and also being up to their necks in all sorts of other corrosive shit really isn’t a good look when looking to keep or garner further supporters.

    It’s really not that smart to simply have a go at decent minded folk who question voting for a Party that clearly needs to sort itself out.
    The Party got itself into this mess, and you can’t really blame the members for allowing this to happen either, as their input was effectively ignored by those in the upper echelons who consolidated power for their own ends.

  92. McHaggis69 says:


    “In fact, to be honest Im pretty fed up with types like you crawling under the carpet to find “reasonable” excuses for atrovious behaviour”

    The fuck are you?
    Some nae-cunt on a blog – same as me – so shut the fuck up with your ‘people like you’ pish. Like you’ve got the only desire for indy and anyone else who isna in their saltire fucking underpants isnae good enough.

    Tell you what Bob. I’m sick of pricks like you deciding on behalf of nae cunt but yourself that if people don’t share *your* version of what it is to support indy then its not good enough.

    I read *multiple* tweets from *plenty* people who seemed fairly rationally to be explaining why the ‘chat’ was being turned off – and then ON again at intervals. Just because I dinnae see a conspiracy in everything I’m somehow less worthy?

    Away and fuck yourself.

  93. Davie Oga says:

    robertknight says:
    24 January, 2021 at 1:45 pm
    “To date, there have only been four occasions when I’ve entered a polling booth and NOT put an X in a box next to the SNP – all were referenda: 1997: 2011, 2014, 2016.”

    I voted for an SSP rep on Renfrewshire Council in 2003, because he was a friend and a decent person. Other than that, I’ve voted SNP at every opportunity throughout my adult life. I’m 49. Never again.

  94. Bob Mack says:



  95. Confused says:

    Very odd story : SEPA got hacked, infected by ransomware, the hackers demanding payment and have now released 4000 files.

    Does not make sense to me; SEPA has backups, so destruction of information is no threat, and so what else is there?

    – that SEPA is a bit crap and lets private landowners do what the fuck they want, sometimes with a finger wag. Heads will roll.

    SEPA is probably one of the least interesting scotgov bodies; for ages now I have been praying for some hackers to blow wide open this SalmondGate business and its absurdities – people we all know, but whose names you cannot say; court proven liars, who, instead of facing perjury and conspiracy charges are protected; and an innocent man, hounded by the press “no smoke without fire” – “he’s still dodgy in my opinion”.

    – these hackers need to get their priorities straight. Amateurs.

  96. Andrew F says:

    There are a lot of valid concerns about postal votes in the crucial “swing states” that got Biden the election, massive swings that put Biden ahead of Trump when Trump had been leading the count.

    Keeping that in mind – I just looked at the #SNPassembly feed on Twitter and saw this tweet:

    “Two of the best political Organisers are called Stac(e)y!

    In #SNPAssembly our excellent @stacybradleySNP
    encourages sign-up for postal voters with online tool:

    We look to the success of the fabulous @staceyabrams
    in Georgia.. Any advice on sign-up?
    Red heart”

    At the very least I’d say that looks a bit odd.

  97. Bob Mack says:


    Away and kick your dog again. You’ll feel better.

  98. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    Westminster will keep on saying no, what then? A lengthy legal fight in the courts with appeals following appeals?

    Here’s my solution: If pro-indy parties get an outright majority in May’s election that should be the mandate to begin the process for indy.

    “Ah but that will lack international legitimacy” they’d say. But I’d point to the United Nations article 1 about the right to self-determination. And how do they know? A democratic mandate in an election that will mainly be about independence is perfectly legit mandate. Nicola Sturgeon should start process of indy & apply to re-join the EU the very next day.

  99. Garrion says:

    A wee aside to all and sundry. As you probably know, the comments here are full of folk with something to say, sometimes it’s a bit mental, sometimes it’s spot on, sometimes it’s an opinion that, honestly offered, isn’t for you.

    On the other hand it’s also hoachin with trolls and astroturfers, sometimes mouthbreathers, sometimes very well trained and subtle, just dyin for somebody to take them on and get things to degenerate into either a yell fest or for somebody to say something that can be used to reinforce the narrative that we are all swivel eyed extremist loons.

    Either way, they win, you don’t. So can we jist no’?

  100. robertknight says:

    Confused@ 2:44

    I know an individual who quit the legal profession, scunnered, having seen brown envelopes change hands in respect of their dealings. These leaks may be worth a read – otherwise, as you suggest, why bother?

  101. McHaggis69 says:

    Hiya Bob,


    don’t be even more of a dick. Your pish poor attempt (two responses cos you’re sitting flaming with yourself you didnt quite get the rage out properly on the first one) at trolling me just wont wash. I was trolling the internet while you were still getting yer bairns to show you what a scart lead on the TV was.

    You’ll just embarrass yourself.

    So sit doon and shut up. Leave it. We’ve had our exchange and I dinnae cut the mustard on independence cos somehow [checks notes]… you think so based on one comment here…

    Try and ignore me as I most will you from now on. Have a great Sunday.

  102. Terry says:

    2014 – “Hope over Fear”

    2021 – “Lies over Truth”

    Feeling a bit sorry for WGD. He’s been through a lot and must know the truth. He’s taking a two week break while he flits – I dare say he’s hoping the furore will have died down by then as well perhaps?

    However as they say – “For evil to persist, all it takes is for good men to go nothing”. For all the those who know the truth and are keeping shtoom – then ponder that.

    Meanwhile it takes courage to tell the truth – so well done this site and the Rev.

  103. Bob Mack says:

    There is a God !!!

  104. Confused says:

    robert knight
    interesting; still, getting a bung for allowing an extra shit pipe into a river seems a bit mundane.

    I was trying to “read between the lines” hoping it was not merely SEPA that got done.

    – here’s the link anyway.

  105. Strathy says:

    Craig Murray’s latest – An Incredible Omission – is very much a ‘must-read’.

    Also, he links to Iain Macwhirter’s hard-hitting article –

    Like a fish, Scotland’s Crown Office is rotting from the head down.

  106. Gregor says:

    Stalinist SNP: Enemy of freedom of expression/thought/choice (Western/European/UK/Scottish values):

  107. Bob Costello says:

    Sturgeon on Marr today, being questioned about her lies in connection with the Alex Salmond case. I could be wrong but she seemed to say that she felt she had to make sure that the system was being applied fairly. As far as I know, up to now, she has tried to make the case that she was totally divorced from the proceedings.,
    I wonder if this is going to be her back up position. “Alright, I am a lying b*****d but it was in the interest of fairness”

  108. Scott Shaw says:

    Finally cancelled membership with a heavy heart. I joined a democratic party not a dictatorship. I can’t stomach them at all at the moment. We need a new constituency party too.

  109. robertknight says:

    Iain Macwhirter certainly doesn’t miss and hit the wall with his latest.

    The fish that is the COPFS is so rotten I recon even the greediest of gulls wouldn’t touch it.

  110. Davie Oga says:

    It takes a special kind of stupid to argue that a majority vote for your own party in a plebiscite election lacks legitimacy and won’t be recognized. Almost as stupid as buying the Queen of Covid trope when Scots have needlessly died by the thousands.

    1.5 million tests
    11.2% positivity
    8000 deaths (NR Scotland, released tomorrow)
    1 out of every 675 people in Scotland have died with Covid


    3 million tests
    6.5 % positivity
    2900 deaths
    1 out of every 1724 people have died with Covid

    Despite having similar populations, a similar urban/rural split, similar travel restrictions (ports open), and having a high degree of genetic similarity, a person in Scotland is nearly three times more likely to die with Covid than a person in Ireland.

  111. Mist001 says:

    Mrs. Murrell spent four years demonstrating to everybody that she is an enemy of democracy, so I don’t see why anyone should be surprised.

  112. Dave Hansell says:

    “Bob Mack says:
    24 January, 2021 at 11:46 am


    All we want in your vote. Nothing else. No opinion. No input.
    No arguement.No questions. No criticism.No viewpoint.

    No chance.”

    They’ll be employing former intelligence agents from the Middle East to purge the surplus to requirements members and replace the work they do with an AI algorithm at this rate.

    Then it moves on to purge the ballot box.

  113. Mia says:

    No plebiscite on Scotland’s independence in May?
    No SNP vote.

    In no other democratic country the electorate is demanded to cast a vote blindfolded and with a hand tied behind the back. So Fck off Sturgeon, you have no right to demand that from us either. Scotland deserves better than you.

    This woman is deliberately attempting to sink the SNP and stop it winning. Unless the MSPs move and make that May election a plebiscite and pronto, they will lose the majority because without that plebiscite, there is a lot of people that have been left with no reason to cast their vote for the SNP.

    The MPs also have very little time left to enjoy their seats, because either they eject this poison from the driving seat or they will soon have the wrath of the people knocking at their doors demanding their seats back and an explanation for their inaction while the poison was throwing Scotland’s chances at independence in the union bin.

    You have to hand it to the British state. They have played a blinder and either the SNP MSPs and MPs are mostly idiots that do not see what is about to hit them, or they have been bribed and are actively betraying us.

    Nicola Sturgeon has been openly colluding with England’s government to deny Scotland its right to self-determination for the last 5 years. This farce today and the 11 points of shit from yesterday, are just examples.

    How many more do we need until we open our eyes?

  114. Frank Ness says:

    This two faced, evil little bitch had the utter cheek the other day to stand up in the Scottish Parliament and sneer and point at the actions of Donald Trump.

    She doesn’t get the fact that she has been rumbled.

    And Sturgeon wouldn’t last five minutes in front of any American committee that was questioning her roll in the Salmond fiasco.

    Unlike our powderpuff Scottish inquiry, where she will be pelted with marshmallows for twenty minutes.

  115. 100%Yes says:

    @Frank 3:48 pm

    Why doesn’t PM’s little helper not do these interviews from Bute house. Still four month till May plenty of time for the general public to see who she really is.

  116. Gregor says:

    If Scotland had its own written constitution (carved in granite), rotten Scot Gov/SNP thug would attack it with a jackhammer.

  117. deerhill says:

    Totally agree with Bob Mack @ 2.14 pm.

    The voters did not let Scotland down, the people running the SNP government did.

    When are SNP MSPs going to speak out about this present bourach? Or are they all just “time servers for the pension”?

    If Ms. Sturgeon is still in post at polling time I cannot, even holding my nose, vote SNP in the constituancy vote.
    I hope there is a choice in the list vote.

  118. Alec Lomax says:

    Gregor – how’s things at the SIU ?

  119. Frank Ness says:

    And all of you hoping for a Plebiscite Election, well there’s been a slight rewording, it will now be known as an “Election for the Plebs”.

  120. Mia says:

    “I could be wrong but she seemed to say that she felt she had to make sure that the system was being applied fairly”

    When you have Ms A meeting NR and JM on the 5th November BEFORE the final draft of the policy was ready, BEFORE the policy was signed and you actually give this Ms A an opportunity to have a say on the procedure, you are not being fair. You are already deliberately biasing the procedure against Mr Salmond at the designing stages. Sturgeon is a lawyer. Are we to understand this fact escaped her or that she got her title in a car boot sale?

    At that time, at that precise time the presence of Ms A in the government and her involvement in the procedure made the whole process a complete joke.

    But what is even more of a joke is Sturgeon’s desperate attempts to make the public believe her interaction with Mr Salmond via texts on the 5th November 2017, precisely the day when Ms A was/had been meeting NR/JMac, was because of an 8 year old nonsense about an airport that SKY was allegedly sniffing around for.

    Either Nicola Sturgeon has lied to the point that she can no longer ascertain what is the truth and what is a fabrication to avoid telling the truth or she thinks those listening to her and reading the evidence submitted to the inquiry are still sucking their thumbs.

  121. Andy Ellis says:

    @deerhill 4.01pm

    I share your disappointment about the SNP, and like you will not vote for them in future.

    However, in the end, it IS the voters who have let the country – and themselves – down repeatedly for over 40 years. They bottled it in 1979 and 2014 and have managed to bring about outcomes in many other elections which rendered them and Scottish representatives powerless to do much other than sit on the sidelines and throw rocks.

    We get the representation we deserve and vote for. If I believed in karma, I’d have to assume the Scots must be being punished for some reason.

  122. iain MacGillivray says:

    Why not set up an alterative National Assembly page/group and have at it there – Do Not be Silenced..!

  123. Confused says:

    re: craig murray and the messages we cannot see

    If you are a criminal, then the thing that will put you in jail is :

    the mobile phone

    – they all love them, can’t stop using them (ghislaine maxwell the latest casualty); sometimes they get arrogant and think they are “clever” – I use “encryption”, “burners”, “secure apps” – aye right; you have NO IDEA the kind of kit they have for slurping up all this data. Some smart crooks tried to get “crypto phones” on the “dark web” … it was a honeypot. Huckled!

    Point is : if the smoking gun of salmondgate is in these messages, then it’s over for them – it will come out eventually.

    This also points to this operation as being a -majority- domestic plot, simply because it reeks of “amateur hour” and all spooks know how not to leave traces on a mobile.

  124. INDEPENDENT says:

    Again slightly o/t

    Are there 2 Ballot Papers i.e. 1 for Constituency Vote and 1 for List Vote. or are both choices on the 1 Ballot. I can’t remember!

    Just that if only 1 and you spoil the Constituency Vote would that nullify the List Vote because they would just class it as a spoiled ballot????

  125. rob says:

    Breeks says:
    24 January, 2021 at 12:35 pm

    Big awkward question is whether ISP should start looking beyond just contesting List seats.

    If you can’t join them, beat them.

    That’s been on my mind for a long time now, there is no way I am giving any of my votes to the SNP.

  126. Gregor says:

    @Alec Lomax

    Are you referring to synthetic astroturf construct, ‘Scotland in Union’: I’ve got no idea, my main concern is mitigating a full-blown banana Scotland.

  127. kapelmeister says:

    Gregory @4:21

    Alex Lomax repeatedly turns up putting his “how’s things at the SIU?” question to pro-indy Wingers.

    He’s a one trick phony.

  128. Hugh Jarse says:

    Maybe the division in the Yes movement will become known as the Banana split!

  129. kapelmeister says:

    Hugh Jarse

    Or the Knickerbocker Gory.

  130. Iain More says:

    It is simple. If there is no plebiscite on Indy in May then I wont be voting SNP on either vote. I am in Highland Region.

  131. Hugh Jarse says:

    Fruit Sunday?

  132. stonefree says:

    @ Heaver at 1:51 pm
    I would suggest that “she fabricated this sexual misdemeanors minefield for him” may well be the part of the true story.
    As I said before sexual conduct can allow her and Murrell to control transgressors ie do what you’re told or we drop you in it.
    Think about MacKay , MacDonald and all
    With AS,simply fabricate a rumor and let it grow, when it hits the fan then ,She’s got a problem!!!
    Consider is that possible or probable?
    It got so out of control , She have said to Evans or indeed Evans say to her “Do you want me to fix it?” NS says “Yes Please”
    It could have been that simple
    Sturgeon is really not that bright, she needs the Woke faction to support her ego
    If the above is accurate then Sturgeon can’t blow the whistle on Evans and visa versa

  133. Gregor says:

    @Hugh Jarse

    Lol, can’t argue with that…

  134. 100%Yes says:

    Boycott the SNP if Sturgeon isn’t removed as FM.

  135. Andy Ellis says:

    @rob 4.18pm

    It’s increasingly obvious we need a “full fat” alternative to the SNP to stand against them in both constituency and list @ Holyrood, and @ Westminster. That might be the ISP, or it might not: they’ve hardly had a glowing start and are going to struggle unless they get some big names or a decent section of current SNP splitting and more or less taking them over. Polls already showed they’d make a pretty decent impact @HR2021 if Salmond fronted them, but I have a feeling that’s pretty unlikely now?

    The problem is there is too little time left to do much constructive before #HR2021 elections. If the gradualists and Woke wahhabis can’t be rooted out of the SNP, then the party is a waste of time. Leave it to the crypto-devolutionists doing their big fish in a small pond act.

    Realistically we have 5 years after #HR2021 to stand up a party that is really committed to independence and which will take support from the milquetoast nationalists in the SNP leadership. Nothing else will make the required impact. If that isn’t done, we might as well resign ourselves to leaving independence to be delivered by the younger generation. Maybe Boris is right: it’ll be 2055 at this rate.

    History will not be kind to the Sturgeonistas and the hard of thinking etiolated Scots who believed in her.

  136. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Big awkward question is whether ISP should start looking beyond just contesting List seats.”

    Aye, @Breeks says at 12:35 pm I have similar thoughts.

    They might not be able to fully stand on the Constituency across Scotland (lack of money and candidates?) but I believe targeted ISP on the Constituency could bear fruit.

    Thinking ISP could (and should) stand against Angus Robertson for starters, and maybe even Nicola Sturgeon hereslef and a few other high profile Wokeratti/Gradualists.

    Make them slither in on the list, it would push down the likes of Spiers etc. from top spot and show that the Sovereign Scottish Electorate have both had enough of SNP Tactics and also have another choice of Party!

  137. Republicofscotland says:

    Re Craig Murray’s latest article, it looks like the inquiry has turned into nothing but a box ticking exercise, I fear Sturgeon will squirm off the hook.

  138. highseastim says:

    Andy Ellis, Rob,and many more. although frustrated like yourselves with some of the goings on, surely if you’re not voting SNP, you’re playing right into the hands of the tory/labour parties, be careful what you wish for.
    Up here in the North East, we should be concentrating on how the best way of voting is to keep Ross out of a list seat.

  139. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Thought Ross was attempting to sneak in as top of the Highland List for the Tories @highseastim says at 4:36 pm?

    NE is Aberdeenshire/wee bit of Moray and Angus.

  140. rob says:

    Heaver says:
    24 January, 2021 at 1:51 pm

    shug says:
    24 January, 2021 at 1:28 pm
    Does anyone know what it was that Salmond and Sturgeon fell out about that caused Nicola to activate the conspiracy team.Sent

    Rev Stu says shes paranoid of AS returning and re-claiming the throne, so she fabricated this sexual misdemeanors minefield for him. Unfortunately for her, it looks like he has successfully tiptoed his way through and is now on the attack.

    I read an article recenty, Salmonds lawyers said in court, that Alex feared these allegations would damage his polital come back… or words to that effect.

    So it is possible Sturgeon was terrified Alex would take her Job.

  141. katherine hamilton says:

    The McWhirter piece is interesting. “Rots from the head down” Oh so yesterday. Are all the Yoonsphere getting their ideas from Wings?

  142. Gregor says:

    Conflict resolution is a reciprocal process and requires cooperation.

    Internal divisions are acceptable providing the public (including elected officials) can openly access and communicate (e.g. facts, evidence & information), discuss, and strive to resolve any significant issues.

    Shady, obstructive and subversive SNP (hierarchy)/Scot Gov, appears to have stomped on such vital fundamentals, with glee.

  143. Andy Ellis says:


    I’d spoil my ballot before voting for SNP in Edinburgh Central after their stitch up to keep Joanna Cherry out. I’d have voted for her as a personal vote. I’ll vote ISP on the list. I can’t see myself voting SNP ever again frankly given what we’ve seen over the past few years. If sense prevails and the clear the dross out I may reconsider. As things stand now, I think they’re utterly lost.

    There’s now more prospect of a new “real” independence party emerging than the SNP being saved in my view: I’d love to be proven wrong, but I just can’t see it. The gradualists and woke Wahhabis are just too entrenched: you’re not going to see them winkled out in anything like an acceptable timescale for those of us who want to see independence this side of 2055.

    In most of Scotland (apart from particular areas like the south / borders) there is literally no point in voting SNP on the list. SNP 1& 2 is a mantra. Giving the current SNP an absolute majority @ #HR2021 is a recipe for stasis, no #indyref2 this decade (or longer), and a tacit acceptance that you’re OK with everything we’ve seen them do (or more often not do!) over the past 5 years.

    You don’t keep Ross & his ilk out by wasting your list vote on the SNP, you vote ISP, or if you’re a brain dead gender extremist Scottish Greens. Anything else and you’re not really interested in achieving independence any time soon as far as I’m concerned.

  144. Kenny says:

    I wonder if it might be a good idea to stand “independent indy” candidates in constituencies? I would contribute to someone’s deposit if they were was standing, for example, against certain unpopular Sturge-favourites.

  145. John says:

    Clear strategy for May’s election vote SNP1 ISP2 know this will give pain to many of you, this will get the most ISP MSPs elected, every FM question time ISP will question on indy, no other party will do this, feet to the fire. ISP are only standing in the regional seats, clear strategy and message, indy first. This will stop non indy parties getting in on both levels, break this stategy and ISP will lose seats, we will all lose out then.

  146. deerhill says:

    My problem is that at 74, I want independence yesterday.

    I think that 5 years or probably 10,if NS has anything to do with it, before we get another crack at it, will be too late for me.

  147. robertknight says:

    Katherine H

    If they’re lazy, they’ll let others do the heavy lifting to get to the truth then show up at the eleventh hour and feign ‘effort’ on their part. (We’ve seen them do it already where WoS is concerned where they failed to credit this site as a source).

    Personally, I care not from where the truth originates, so long as what is presented as fact can be verified and the source to which it is attributed confirmed for accuracy and credibility.

    Not much to ask, you’d think…

  148. Mia says:

    “Clear strategy for May’s election vote SNP1 ISP2”

    No, sorry. Unless the SNP grows the balls to make the election a plebiscitary one, including a clear and defined deadline to deliver independence if a majority of pro indy seats are won, they will not get my constituency vote. And if they force Scotland to remain in this toxic union for another couple of years without a vote, my current SNP MP will lose my vote too.

    You don’t reward losers with more time and a high salary. You boot them out.

    I however will happily give the ISP my list vote.

  149. John Digsby says:

    @Daisy Walker

    What food standards and environmental regulations have been weakened compared to the EU position since January 1st?

    I hold no flame for UKGov at all, but we need to criticise them for what they’ve actually done

    I also don’t think that Holyrood is at risk – UKGov has taken the right to spend more money in Scotland (and Wales and NI) and bypass Holyrood in doing so. Not immediately sure that this is the crime of the century – we all complain that they ignore us, and this is a (admittedly piss poor) way of showing they do – much like the EU slapping its logo over the spending it did across the UK.

    Would I rather Holyrood had it? yeah if they could manage not to piss it up the wall on legal fees. But I can’t make the link between this and abolishing devolution.

  150. rob says:

    Sorry, but the SNP are not entitled to my vote, they have to earn it….No Plebiscite then NO vote

  151. Mia says:

    “surely if you’re not voting SNP, you’re playing right into the hands of the tory/labour parties, be careful what you wish for”

    The old New Labour psychological blackmailing threats don’t work anymore. They have been used far too many times before.

    Didn’t Daddy Bear and other SNP reverse gradualists alike pontificated over us telling us we can only get indyref when support for indy is above 60% and that we had to go and “convert” no voters, even when denying the main 2 tools to do so which is a campaign and a deadline?

    well, then, I can’t think in any better way of converting no voters than exposing them directly and without the SNP shield to the policies they voted for. That will convert no voters in their thousands. So the SnP reverse gradualists better take their own advice and be careful what they wish for.

    Do not threat people with New labour’s old lies and patronising crap, because at this juncture, the only thing you are going to achieve is to infuriate voters even more.

    Sturgeon’s SNP is no longer a pro-indy party and has all the hallmarks of being a party hijacked by the British state, that is being used to keep us on a leash, to do the dirty work of denying us our right to self determination and democratic rights and to hand over to England our powers and assets.

    So, frankly, if they do not transform the Holyrood Election into a plebiscite on independence, what exactly do we stand to lose if the SNP don’t win?

    Another request for a S30 order?
    Another mandate they do not intend to deliver?
    Another bunch of Scotland’s powers and assets to be handed over to England?
    5 more years of platitudes, moronic bills, rotten carrots and procrastination?

    No thanks. I know what I wish for and is none of that.

    If the SNP wants my constituency vote, it will come to a price. The price is a plebiscitary election with a deadline of delivery. They can take it or leave it, but they are not going to get it for free. Not this time.

  152. John Digsby says:

    I suspect a lot of internal opposition will be becalmed by the promise of an advisory referendum if the S30 is denied again.

    I know Stu isn’t convinced of this because of council boycotts etc. but I suppose if the Act eventually gained Royal Assent then it would become legal and presumably the electoral machinery would have no choice

  153. Polly says:

    It’s shameful that a party who used to be robust in debate is being hobble now.

  154. Sarah says:

    @ Rev: last year you wrote that if no-one set up a new party then you would.

    Well it looks as if the new parties aren’t flying. Could you join one and get it efficient and higher-profile?

  155. Hugh Jarse says:

    Maybe John D, if you think the yoon councillors will defy Head Office in London. If HQ says no compliance, no compliance is what they’ll eagerly do.
    No indyref2/plebiscite is ALL the strategy they need to ‘win’.


  156. frogesque says:

    Other problems for me in Fife re SNP.

    Their treatment of Niel Hanvey immediately before the last GE.

    MSP Gilruth literally in bed with Dugdale. No other party would sanction this. (not homophobic, I don’t give a damn what folk do as long as its legal and consensual) I just feel she is compromised. She is also as much use as a jaggy nettle for an ass wipe.

    And yet the SNP expect loyalty and both votes. I can hold my nose (temporarily) over Gilruth but my second vote will most definitely not go for any old wokey lister for Holyrood.

    ISP seem to be the front runners but as has been mentioned, some big hitters would help.

  157. Frank Ness says:

    Loved the link up thread to someone’s twitter account with picture Sturgeon and the words top and bottom of picture saying,

    “It’s my Party”
    “And I’ll lie if I want to”

    As in the old sixties song.


    A touch of humour in this time of crisis.

  158. I don’t know why people are still talking about referendums. That ship sailed long ago. Even if there were to be a referendum, it wouldn’t be on Scotland’s terms and it would be open to all of the cheating, vote-rigging and count-irregularities that happened last time.

    Besides, we must judge people by their actions rather than their words, and all we’ve had from Nicola Sturgeon since 2014 is total inaction on independence, along with unwanted policies, back-stabbing and abject corruption.

  159. I’m with the many others here who will be withholding their votes for the SNP unless and until the forthcoming election is declared a plebiscite on independence. The SNP needs to represent and act on the demands of its supporters. They’re wasting our time otherwise.

  160. Daisy Walker says:

    John Digsby says:
    24 January, 2021 at 5:35 pm
    I suspect a lot of internal opposition will be becalmed by the promise of an advisory referendum if the S30 is denied again.

    I expect a lot of internal opposition will be becalmed by the prospect of some form of favourable deal to access the 60% of Europe’s oil reserves situated under Scotland’s territorial waters.

    This business of Scotland having to go through extra, extra hoops in order to prove its right to self determination is old news now.

    And re your last message, tell it to the bees pet, after you look up the new pesticide now being allowed into the uk, and it’s connections to a Tory mp.

    I should have mentioned the fishing industry in my last, which will not survive the next 5 years, plus the access to inland fishing, which if the Spanish gain access to, will be destroyed. They Hoover up everything.

    Mull brings in about £4million a year in wildlife tourism, folk go over to photograph the sea eagles, etc. We lose the fishing, we lose the wildlife, we lose the jobs, we lose the local communities… just a great big holiday home camp for retired tories with money, looking for a bit of liebensraum.

  161. Frank Ness says:

    I joined the SNP in 2011 after indyref1 was announced.

    And in a few days time it will be the first anniversary of my cancelled membership.

    What I did admire about the SNP was that their members from long before I joined, were the most loyal, knowledgeable and committed members of any Party from within the UK.

    So for Sturgeon to try and take on such a powerful bunch of people and try to treat them like idiots was always going to be a suicide mission.

    And it must brake the hearts of so many members who have been with the SNP long before Sturgeon was even born.

    Sturgeon has taken on one battle too many.

    And for the sake of all of us, the war will soon be over, where justice will prevail.

    Mr and Mrs Murrell, your toxic days are numbered.

    Tick Tock!!!

  162. Socrates MacSporran says:

    deerhill @ 5.14pm

    I turn 74 next month. I agree entirely with you. I want to die in a free, independent Scotland. So, I want that NOW

  163. Mia says:

    Rev, I wonder if you wouldn’t mind sharing your views on “Scotia Future” as a potential alternative to the SNP for those of us who do no longer have the stomach to vote for the SNP unless the May election is plebiscitary.

    I am looking for alternatives to the SNP for my constituency vote. So far the only one I have found that seems pro independence is Scotia Future. I have been fooled enough by the SNP so I want to be more careful this time and wonder if you know anything about this party.

    Within their policies in their website is this:

    “If a Scottish Parliament returns a majority vote of pro independence MSP’s that will provide a mandate to negotiate a changed constitution with Westminster”

    Do you think (know?) if this means a majority of pro indy vote or rather a majority of pro indy MSPs?

    Also, do you know if the part that says “to negotiate a changed constitution with Westminster” if this means ending the union or is this some kind of deceiving labour-like waffle meaning another form of Devo max nonsense?

    Thank you for your wisdom. Much appreciated.

  164. Flower of Scotland says:

    @Michael Laing 6.03pm

    Do that and you’ve no chance of an Independent Scotland. No politician is the SNP and the SNP are the only party that can regain Independence for Scotland, so don’t be daft!

    We have to deal with the corruption within the party and leadership but that is up to the party.

    If we do what you want we let the Unionists, probably Tories, to take over Holyrood which they will immediately close down. Are you a Tory?

  165. Daisy Walker says:

    The snp have not been collating voting data in the last 2 elections. Officially due to COVID, but quite possibly, so that when election disaster befalls them, management can say ‘We didn’t know’ and play the daft laddie technique.

    In what way can we publicly rub their noses in it?

    My suggestion is a mass joining of the ISP, but before I join them PEH must be their mandate.

    If they got 100,000 new members in the course of a few weeks, like the SNP did following 2014, would that be enough to give the decent MSPs and MPs in the SNP the courage to rebel?

    Re the argument about fixing the SNP from within. Today was their last chance to do that. But also, that argument has been used by labour for the last 20 years, how’s that working out for them? Any progress yet?

    We won’t win a PEH in May, but if we can get it on the ballot paper as an option, and into the voters consciousness, then the next ge, it becomes the means by which we win.

    It also means we can establish another Indy party and stop having all our eggs in one basket.

  166. rob says:

    What worries me is, that even if we did get a plebiscite, the SNP have done no planning for things like currency , banking, pensions etc, (all the things that lost us the last indy) I fear the MSM will make mincemeat of us again, nor can I see the SNP enthusiastically forging ahead with campaigning after having been forced to concede to the grassroots.

  167. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    See people on here on about spoiling ballot papers. Have you checked that by spoiling it in some way, defacing your ballot you’re not actually spoiling the whole ballot paper ?

    If it does,your list ballot won’t mean jack shit and whole ballot paper might end up void ? Someone who has done vote counting should be on here advising people instead of folk having a hissy fit.

    Just saying

    To tell the truth I can’t remember what these ballots look like, but sure their on dam form are they not?

  168. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi John Digsby at 5:17 pm.

    You asked,
    “What food standards and environmental regulations have been weakened compared to the EU position since January 1st?”

    I see Daisy Walker has mentioned this in passing. The following quote is from the link below.

    “The Government has bowed to pressure from the National Farmers Union and agreed to authorise the use of the highly damaging neonicotinoid thiamethoxam for the treatment of sugar beet seed in 2021. The Wildlife Trusts strongly oppose this decision.

    The Secretary of State, George Eustice, made the decision in response to the potential danger posed from beet yellows virus, despite a similar application being refused in 2018 by the UK Expert Committee on Pesticides because of unacceptable environmental risks.”

  169. robertknight says:

    Flower of Scotland@6:17

    So the Tories will close Holyrood?

    Ooooooh….shit scared – NOT!

    Dewar said at the time it would kill Indy. It hasn’t killed it, but since 2014 devolution has been an effective tar pit for Indy – especially when a docile and obedient SNP gets packed with cozy-devolutionists, witness Cozy Feet Pete & Co at Westminster.

    If Holyrood was shut and the electorate were faced with direct rule from London under BawJaws or Indy, with no halfway house which we currently have, the SNP could behave like the party of Independednce that it’s meant to be – no the cheerleaders for the status quo, and you’d see those in favour if Indy up in the high 70s not the low 50’s.

  170. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Same dam form Never have I had to fill in 2 ballot forms.

  171. robertknight says:

    Ayrshire Rob

    I hate linking to the BBC but…

    You get two papers.

  172. Brian Doonthetoon says:


    Two ballot papers.

  173. twathater says:

    I would love to see Alex Salmond stand as an independent INDEPENDENCE candidate in Sturgeon’s constituency , what an excellent fuck you that would be to Sturgeon and a lovely piece of REVENGE , I personally would contribute to his expenditure and I am sure many others would if he were interested , not only that if he were planning on any comeback to the political sphere it would give him a toehold to form a NEW party , or he could negotiate to lead the ISP which would give them the BIG NAME , KUDOS, and would GENERATE massive exposure from the MSM for the ISP

  174. robertknight says:

    From the link if you don’t want to click it…

    “You will be given two ballot papers – a purple one and a peach-coloured one.

    The purple ballot paper lists the name of each candidate along with their party name and party logo.

    You should vote for one candidate to represent your constituency by marking a cross (X) in the box next to their name.

    The peach ballot paper lists political parties and independent candidates.

    You should vote for one party or independent candidate to represent your region by marking a cross (X) in the box next to their name.

    Take your ballot papers into a polling booth so that no one can see how you vote.

    Mark your ballot papers according to the instructions. A pencil will be provided, but you may use your own pen if you prefer.

    Fold your completed ballot papers in half, and then put them in the ballot boxes.

    If you make a mistake on your ballot paper, or if you need any other assistance, staff will be able to help you.”

  175. Mia says:

    “no halfway house which we currently have, the SNP could behave like the party of Independednce that it’s meant to be”

    If after holding SNP majorities in Westminster since 2015, after 20 pro-indy polls, after holding mandates for indyref since 2016 and after warnings for that to happen since 2016 still Holyrood is closed, you will find the SNP will no longer be “the party of Independence that it’s meant to be”. They will be finished as a pro-indy party because they would have failed at every possible level when they were given all the tools and plenty of time to avoid failing. Who is going to trust them after that?

    The SNP has a very, very narrow window of opportunity to act and unless they remove that fraud they currently have on the driving seat, their window of opportunity is closing down and fast.

  176. Socrates MacSporran says:

    AYRSHIRE ROB @ 6.29pm

    You wrote: “Never have I had to fill in 2 ballot forms.”

    Well, you have never voted in a Holyrood election.

    In 2016 there were two forms, a purple one, for the constituency vote; and a peach one for the list vote.

  177. Mia says:


    is the ISP fielding candidates for the list seats in every constituency or just in some?

  178. Derick fae Yell says:

    Daisy Walker says:
    24 January, 2021 at 6:20 pm

    My suggestion is a mass joining of the ISP, but before I join them PEH must be their mandate.

    I don’t seem to be able to post the link, but google

    “youtube isp what is a plebiscite election and why we should all take pride in being called ‘plebs'”

    and that video will hopefully go some way to answering your question

  179. Republicofscotland says:

    It would appear that there’s a growing appetite among those who want to see this union dissolved for May’s election to be a plebiscite. I feel that May’s election must be a plebiscite, if not, then I fear that all might be lost. Especially if Sturgeon and her clique are still at the helm of the SNP, which is beginning to look likely, a cursory view at Craig Murray’s latest post, seems to show that the inquiry will fail abysmally to hold Sturgeon or her clique to account, and where does that leave us.

    No this coming election MUST be a plebiscitary one, we must make it abundantly clear to the SNP via social media that if it isn’t, then there will be consequences of that, with holding your vote, tearing up memberships, no party payments or donations in any form, this isn’t some ordinary run of the mill election coming up this is the one, the one that will determine whether or not we remain tied to this awful union for years to come, or we dissolve it and take our rightful place in the world once again.

  180. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Socrates Mc Sporran

    Oh right ,you’ll ken that ,how?

    I can’t remember to tell the truth .Called memory issues. If that’s and issue for you – fuck off!

  181. John Digsby says:

    @Daisy Walker

    You’re wrong on the bees. Yes, a temporary derogation has been applied for the use of neonicotinoids on some sugar beet crops for a period of 1 year.

    But the same of longer derogstions have been applied in France, Austria and Poland because they are permitted under EU law (Article 53, if you are interested). So this is not a change to EU regs, as it would be permitted if the UK was in the EU. At least, unlike France, the UK has limited it to a year – France have lifted the ban for 3 years

    So on this point you are talking tosh, I’m afraid.

  182. crazycat says:

    @ Ayrshire Rob at 6.27

    No, they are not on the same piece of paper!!

    You get 2 ballot papers, different colours.

    One contains a list of people’s names; they are you constituency candidates. Most or all of them will be standing for a party which will also be named.

    The second piece of paper will contain a list of parties, and possibly individuals standing as independents. The parties will have their own lists of ordered candidates, but their names will not be on the ballot paper.

    You will be required to put each of these pieces of paper in the appropriate one of two ballot boxes, but whether you have marked each with a cross, left it blank, or written an essay on it, is up to you.

    Spoiling one ballot does not invalidate the other.

  183. John Digsby says:

    @Hugh Jarse

    But it isn’t the political councillors who run the elections, it is Council officials and Returning Officers. They will obey the law.

  184. John Digsby says:


    See my response to Daisy – this derogation is permitted under EU law and has been applied by Austria, France and Poland. So it isn’t a relaxation in environmental standards at all

  185. John Digsby says:

    @Daisy Walker

    Read my post again – when I said “internal opposition”, I meant internal to the SNP. So I think you misunderstood what I was saying

  186. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    I couldn’t remember what I did last week far less 4 fecking years ago.

    Thanks for reminders folks


  187. crazycat says:

    @ Ayrshire Rob, continued

    Sorry – I accidentally submitted that comment while intending to embolden the last line, but perhaps it’s worth a separate post any way.

    I used to think that anything other than a cross (or in some systems, a number) would invalidate a ballot.

    Then when I was a counting agent in 2014, I discovered that that is not necessarily the case. If the voter’s intention is clear, and whatever is written cannot be used to identify him/her, the Acting Returning/Referendum Officer will be minded to allow the vote. Agents of the candidates/campaigns, watching the assessment of potentially invalid papers, will have the chance to agree or object.

    So if you do not mark a box with a cross, or mark more than one, it’s invalid. If you mark a box and add comments, then your vote is likely to be counted unless you’ve signed the comments or otherwise identified who you are.

    Therefore, the potential exists (though it might be wise to check current/local rules) for putting an X in the SNP box, while making one’s reluctance etc known.

  188. Frank Ness says:

    Brian Toon

    We are trying to de-throne Sturgeon here.

    The website informing us of food standards us down the corridor a bit.

    I think you have wandered onto the wrong website.

    Or are you deliberately trying to steer us away from going after that evil little fraudster?

  189. Hugh Jarse says:

    And who do those Council officials and officers answer to John?
    They don’t run the council and are beholden for their morgage payments to the political bosses.
    Please let us know if I’m wrong, and how?

    Nice work for some who tow the line!


  190. @ Flower of Scotland at 6.17pm. I am anything but a Tory. I am a far-left socialist who wants Toryism, Capitalism and Feudalism eradicated from Scotland. Independence could not be more urgent to me.

    I totally disagree with your point. Based on their performance since 2014, the SNP is now a unionist party. They have utterly failed to protect Scotland from the Tories, just as Labour did before them. Their commitment to preventing Scotland from leaving the EU proved to be worthless. Their promises of referendums next year, then next year, then maybe the year after that if Boris agrees, likewise. So if unionist parties take Holyrood at the forthcoming election, I struggle to see what difference it will make. We’ll just be in the same position as we’re in now. I’m not going to vote for a party that claims to support independence but does absolutely SFA about it; nor one that is led by a despicable twisted liar who stabs the very person she owes her position to in the back.

    If the SNP gets the new leadership it needs and takes rapid, concrete action on independence, I will be only too happy to resume my support for the party. If not, they can GTF.

  191. Derek says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon says:
    24 January, 2021 at 6:28 pm
    Hi John Digsby at 5:17 pm.

    You asked,
    “What food standards and environmental regulations have been weakened compared to the EU position since January 1st?”

    I see Daisy Walker has mentioned this in passing. The following quote is from the link below.

    “The Government has bowed to pressure from the National Farmers Union and agreed to authorise the use of the highly damaging neonicotinoid thiamethoxam for the treatment of sugar beet seed in 2021. The Wildlife Trusts strongly oppose this decision.

    The Secretary of State, George Eustice, made the decision in response to the potential danger posed from beet yellows virus, despite a similar application being refused in 2018 by the UK Expert Committee on Pesticides because of unacceptable environmental risks.”

    I contacted Silver Spoon – who make their sugar entirely from locally-grown beet – about this due to my concern. The permission isn’t just in the UK, but in some EU countries too, and whether it happens is weather-dependent. If winter’s properly wintry, they won’t need to use it, but they will if it’s mild. They also noted that it’s a seed treatment rather than a crop spray. It might be a one-off rather than a policy reversal; I can’t remember.

  192. INDEPENDENT says:

    Thanks Crazy Cat and others just catching up

    That’s what I wanted clarified

    Didn’t want to f up the ISP list vote.

  193. John Digsby says:


    Yes, you’re right. It is a seed treatment and is all with the existing EU regs, which UK hasn’t changed. There are also heavy restrictions requiring extra herbicides to kill off any flowering weeds, and not to plant any flowering crops for several months afterwards. All to make sure bees don’t come into contact with it (sugar beet doesn’t flower).

    I’m all for giving WM a kicking, but they do enough wrong without making up additional stuff.

  194. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Thanks crazy cat

    Just to add while I remember ,lol

    I think it’s a fecking stupid idea,spoiling papers. Why walk to a voting station and fill in a spoiled ballot form wae ” “I’m Gregor Mc Gregor fae the clan Mc Gregor fae Mc Gregor, I wear highland socks” or some other shite?

    It’s shit and of no use- no one cares.

    When yir deid, yir deid.The only people that know yir deid is the folk that put you in the ground or the furnace.

    You’re deid, but you don’t ken yir deid.But your still deid, remember that!

  195. crazycat says:

    @ INDEPENDENT at 7.21

    I’m also catching up, which is why I didn’t address my post directly to your much earlier question.

    I did hope you’d see it, though.

  196. John Digsby says:

    @Hugh Jarse

    Sorry, my last comment to you should have ended with a question mark! I think Council officials in this area answer to a Chief Exec rather than to the politicians directly. So I couldn’t see how the application of the law could be avoided

    I think the real issue is probably whether the advisory referendum would gain Royal Assent or be challenged successfully by WM. It would be better if the legal position was more clear

  197. crazycat says:

    @ Ayrshire Rob

    It would certainly be daft to write what you’ve used as an example!

    But, since all the non-standard ballots are scrutinized, it can send a more relevant message. Simply abstaining (by staying at home) tends to be interpreted by smug ensconced politicians as evidence of contentment with how they are doing. A blank ballot posted into the box can be dismissed as an unintentional “mistake”. Telling them what you think of them can’t be!

  198. Daisy Walker says:

    One of the principles of the EU is that a chemical company must prove their product will not have a detrimental effect prior to them allowing it to be sold in the eu.

    In America the chemical companies can roll it out and it is up to the public to prove damage is being caused, and then campaign to have it removed from sale.

    That the eu provides some licenced, exceptional use, indicates a controlled and proportionate response, and one that provides a degree of environmental protection.

    I found out about the above when researching the eu, and what it does. At the time the Tory EMP was arguing and lobbying strongly for the bee pesticide to be allowed through. I can’t confirm now, I never saved the link, but she was married on one of the directors of the company producing same.

    Which is not even shocking anymore.

    The big spraying companies down south, supply the large farms there with set contracts, for say 7 sprays a season, whether it needs it or not. There has been a real crash in insect numbers and diversity in south of England and significant evidence linking it to petrochemical sprays etc.

    Likewise in America bee colonies and the bee industry have been devastated, and strong links to petrochemical spaying attributed.

    We create a desert….

    After ww2, the uk government had lots of nasty chemicals (for warfare) to get rid of. They used the chemicals to produce animal pesticides and ordered farmers to use them on their cattle/sheep.

    Scotland, being colder, had less issue with pests of this type and quietly refused to do so.

  199. Andy Ellis says:

    @AngusMacNeilSNP is on fire at the minute:

    He’s 100% correct of course: the SNP appears to be all over the place, having moved from absolute attachment to the Gold Standard S30 sanctioned referendum, to endorsing a “wildcat” referendum backed by yet another Holyrood mandate in a matter of days. Yet somehow, plebiscitary elections are a non-starter because the international community won’t recognise them? It is to laugh!

    Feumaidh sinn falbh an-dràsta!

  200. Polly says:

    @ twathater

    ‘I would love to see Alex Salmond stand as an independent INDEPENDENCE candidate in Sturgeon’s constituency , what an excellent fuck you that would be to Sturgeon and a lovely piece of REVENGE , I personally would contribute to his expenditure and I am sure many others would if he were interested , not only that if he were planning on any comeback to the political sphere it would give him a toehold to form a NEW party‘

    I think I agree with this though I’m not sure where he should stand if he ever chose to. I noticed too Joanna retweeted an article recently about great political comebacks so perhaps we’re not the only ones thinking this.

  201. Effijy says:

    Kick Royal Assent into touch.
    Betty got involved in politics against her remit and Scotland
    She made clear it’s England First so she means no more than Boris to me.

    The Monarchy should go when she does!

    PS Should we sell Scotland’s share of the Crown Jewels or keep them for tourists?
    The Balmoral Estate will sell for fortunes.
    Might be enough to end Foodbanks?

  202. Boaby says:

    Time now for the isp to start looking at contesting constituency seats. Because this murrell shitshow is going nowhere.fool me with one promised mandate, shame on you , fool me with countless promised mandates. Not going to happen.

  203. Hugh Jarse says:

    John D

    The CEO’s are appointed by the political/independent members of the council.
    They’re not going to give the top job to someone whose political outlook is far from the majority of the councillors.

    As always, he who pays the piper…,new-chief-executive-of-scottish-borders-council-appointed
    It shouldn’t be too difficult to get around/bypass the council’s veto, if there’s a will. And enough £.

  204. John Digsby says:

    @Daisy Walker

    Indeed. And this use is proportionate. There has been no change to food or environmental regs in the UK since Brexit. The chemical in question is actually manufactured in the main by Bayer, which is German. The only possible Tory connection might be British Sugar, but as I say other EU countries have permitteded the same use for the same reason, which a nasty bug wiping out the crops.

    If you want to be reassured about how limited the application is, the restrictions and reasoning are here:

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled game of “how to solve a problem like Nicola”… ?

  205. John Digsby says:

    Hugh Jarse

    You may be right, though if it’s the law, the courts can presumably force compliance?

    Anyway, as I say, the challenge would be getting it into law. I don’t like this route as it is riddled with uncertainty, and I don’t know why it has had to wait until after May – why didn’t we do this years ago?

  206. John Digsby says:


    Sorry, the chemical authorised is made by Syngenta, not Bayer. Syngenta is a Swiss company.

  207. Daisy Walker says:

    Craig Murray’s latest article is very revealing.

    In order to ‘accidentally’ leave out in your formal request for evidence, the most damning evidence of all – one would have to have detailed knowledge of the crime in the first place.

    Looks like WM isn’t finished with our Nicola yet.

    Still she’s survived today.

    She now has a clear run from now to May to keep a PEH off the SNP Manifesto. If she does that, the unionists will keep protecting her, she will host the big climate do in Nov 2021 and then move onto the international stage. Scotland’s very own version of a Tony Blair.

  208. Bob Mack says:

    Elections are not just about council compliance. Under the Representation of the People Act the election comes under the scrutiny of a returning officer. They can deem the whole thing void.

  209. witchy says:

    Keep the party….change the players…and up the game!

  210. John Digsby says:

    @Bob Mack

    But if it was an actual Act with Royal Assent, would the Returning Officer be able to?

  211. PacMan says:

    I had made a comment on the previous thread about resectioning the Auld Alliance as a way of taking forward independence. Obviously, even if it was somehow possible given the lack of any modern links to the French political system, it isn’t desirable as the result of an independent Scotland having the status of a French overseas territory.

    However, I read today that the DTI has advised British exporters to set up hubs in Europe as a way of getting round the current chaos they are experiencing and will experience going forward.

    It occurred to me that canny Scot’s would want to pursue in the French courts whether the right to Dual citizenship under the Auld alliance is still valid. I could imagine that a French/Scot citizen wouldn’t have as much trouble setting up an operation in France than an ordinary British subject would.

    I’m sure also it would also be amusing to a lot of French of having lots of Scottish dual national citizens where they could have a laugh with their English friends about la petit France en Grande Bretagne. I could imagine Macron would have a field day with Johnson about that.

    Staying on the subject, there are many reasons why the Auld alliance never continued into the modern age but IMHO, one of them was language and I can’t help think that was to do with the prevalence of the English language in our culture life, namely the power of Hollywood and the ability of the BBC to produce so much content.

    Given the current state of the pandemic where the cinema industry is shut down and may not survive the pandemic, it will be hard for Hollywood to produce the spectacle of the blockbuster and will have to opt for streaming where it’s product becomes one of many that that service provides, including a lot of non-English content.

    Also the BBC are increasingly finding it hard to justify their licence fee as people are moving onto the likes of Netflix and other internet based services like YouTube and TikTok.

    With the demise of these two Anglospheric entities, will it encourage more people in Scotland to learn other languages and in turn broaden their outlook to non-English speaking countries?

  212. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Frank Ness/Clyde/Ronald Fraser/whoever.

    Another of your personal attacks.

    Just add me on to your “Liz G”-headed list so you can copy/paste us all at once.

    No need to thank me.

  213. Jonathan Marshall says:

    Just a thought… while we all have lots of disagreement on this site and others… we all agree (that is those not hiding behind pseudonyms with other agendas) that Scotland would be best off as an Independent Nation free to make its own choices and look after its citizens to the best of its abilities. So in that sense, we need to stay together in some way for a while longer. I am not going to tell anyone how to vote but I will share that I want to see as few Tory or Labour MSPs as possible in Scotland as they really are the reason we are still tied to this blasted Union. Anyway, each of us who really believes in Independence needs to figure out how best to achieve this aim. In my constituency, I have worked out that is SNP 1 and ISP or Green 2. After this election, I figure that the SNP are finished if they don’t achieve a referendum within their 2-year time scale I certainly wouldn’t vote for them again and probably the ISP would gain political traction. Anyway rather than vote Green I joined the ISP today so that is where my second vote goes. I decided after much soul searching and the fact that I have a hard-working SNP MSP I will vote SNP with my first vote. I fully understand the dilemma faced by many who post here and have lost so much faith myself in SNP members I used to respect… but consider who you want to put in power carefully.

  214. John says:

    Jonathan Marshall says:” I joined the ISP today so that is where my second vote goes.”

    Welcome to the ISP Jonathan.

  215. MartinM says:

    WOW…you can’t make this shi# up! This is like observing a corrupt dictatorship void of criticism. Sturgeon and the cult have take over full control and now oblivious about their failure in the Salmond case and how they are making an arse of independence. They are in a bubble and clearly lockdown has made them even more entitled with no conference to hold them to account. It would appear to be the case that SNP members can do absolutely nothing about this total shambles. The entitled elected politicians now have full control over the SNP manifesto which we know is doomed to fail putting a massive smile on the elected SNPs MPs faces minus Angus McNeil (good guy).
    Who would have thought the innocence of Indy 1 would have taken us to this pathetic place. Independence finally polling at 58% but yet we learn the clique who are in control didn’t actually want it!

  216. Bob Mack says:

    @John Digsby,

    I think they are called Assessors in Scotland, but they do come under Westminster authority.Your guess is good as mine.

  217. Mac says:

    I have zero doubt that the prosecution of Alex Salmond was malicious.

    So if two no-name insolvency practitioners and Charles Green (another nobody) are being awarded these eye watering sums in damages for malicious prosecution by the SNPG (Woolfe is in the cabinet and they did not split it so yeah the SNPG) can you imagine how much Alex Salmond will be entitled to in damages as a former First Minister and huge public figure for what they have done to him. Wow… mega bucks.

    First off what they did to AS is orders of magnitude worse than what they did to Charles Green and the two duff and phelps(?) chumps. R@pe charges etc… As bad as it was for Green etc their ordeal was a tiny small fraction of Salmond’s ordeal of malicious prosecution.

    Then you have the reputational damage to someone like Salmond versus Green etc… It is off the scale. Green etc were nobodies before and after the rangers business, Salmond was a former FM of Scotland, a truly international figure with a fucking TV show!

    It has got to be minimum 30m sheets plus, minimum, more like 50m plus going by these precedents with Charles Green and others, but probably more. If this was America… hundreds of millions.

    Personally even though I guess I would be paying for it I hope AS takes the SNPG to the cleaners. They so deserve it and he so deserves the compensation.

    In fact I’d contribute via crowdfunding for him to sue them. So in a way I’d be paying twice. Could not give a fuck.

  218. Del G says:

    I was blocked on twitter by Wings, Grousebeater and James Kelly, for saying things they didn’t like – for failing to conform to their individual party lines. So (personally) I think it’s a bit rich when they pitch into the SNP for doing the same.
    I should add that I think the SNP are reprehensible in failing to go for indyref2 right now. Bugger Boris Johnson and his stance against S30.

  219. Davie Oga says:

    Regarding Scots reclaiming French Citizenship. An argument could be made that Scots remained French citizens up until the Entente Cordiale was signed in 1904.

    But, under French nationality law, unless there are any 117 year old Scots, no one living today would be able to benefit from it.

    A child born outside of France with at least one French citizen parent is entitled to French citizenship. However, they must claim French citizenship before
    their 18th birthday. Also, in cases of French citizenship by descent, the family line must not go 50 years without interacting with the French state in one form or another, or the bloodline is no longer eligible.

    It’s a non starter unless you want to go to France to live and earn your citizenship through work and naturalisation.

    -Just in case any gravy train goof balls fancy this, you won’t be able to turn up and immediately take up positions in their political parties, or vote in their national elections. French democracy is for French citizens, like every other normal country in the world.

  220. TNS2019 says:

    A future nation must be built on optimism and hope, not on cynicism and defence.
    I am hearing no words that inspire me.
    I am not hearing or seeing leadership.
    There appears to be no passion for Scotland other than a hatred of England.
    I am passionate about Scotland.
    I don’t hate England.
    I believe in Scotland.
    I have no faith in the SNP.
    I am well and truly F*cked.

  221. Elmac says:

    It is time to stop talking about voting for ISP on the list – it is time now to actually vote for them on both the constituency and the list. If that means a unionist majority at Holyrood then so be it. The Murrell clan will not survive that and at least we can then start to rebuild through an honest party focused on achieving independence for our nation. One thing is for sure, continuing the status quo will ensure that independence is NEVER achieved.

    Today has seen yet more lies and smears spouted by the poisoned dwarf who seems intent on destroying the aspirations of her country for her own personal greed. For god’s sake will somebody with a bit of clout stand up and call out this evil harridan for what she is? There is an army of deeply unhappy scots who will gladly follow their lead.

  222. Elmac says:

    Re Mac @ 8.21

    Count me in.

  223. Henry McMillan says:

    Independence first! Let’s get that and then argue over the rest.

  224. PacMan says:

    @ Davie Oga 24 January, 2021 at 8:29 pm

    Thanks. It was too good to be true and would have been great potential back door back into Europe.

    C’est la vie as they in France.

  225. Elmac says:

    Re Henry @ 8.42

    The point is Henry there will be NO independence under the Murrells. That is the last thing they want. They are either too attached to the gravy train or have been nobbled by Westminster. Take your pick. If you want independence you have to consider alternatives.

  226. robertknight says:

    On the subject of spoiling your Constituency ballot paper…

    It is my intention to turn the paper sideways, and writing through all the boxes where an ‘X’ would usually be placed, print:


    I’d like to see any Assessor at the Count categorise that as anything other than “Spoiled”. Furthermore, nobody will have any doubt as to the sentiment behind it.

    I’ll not vote Yoon nor will I stay at home and my desire for Indy will be expressed through a List vote for the ISP.

    If NS and her mob are still running the SNP circus then they’ll get no endorsement from me.

  227. velofello says:

    Law is for the guidance of the wise, and the obedience of fools.

    The Fabiani committee needs to identify if their enquiry is to be guided by law of statute only , or also guided by the universal law of morals/ethics.

    Acceptance of statute law only and thus that Government agencies are enabled to withhold information, I suggest indicates a failure to appreciate just how important is their assignment.

  228. Mist001 says:

    I’m married to a French woman, have two French children (with Scots blood of course!) and have lived in France for 14 years. I even pay taxes in France, so you would think I’d be a shoo in for French nationality.

    It is incredibly, horrendously difficult to obtain French nationality so any idea that Scottish people may have about going down that route is a non starter. You will get nowhere.

    Although I keep reading of a rumour that there’s a certain connection between the First Ministers office and the French consulate in Edinburgh. Diplomatic relationships, you understand.

  229. Hugh Jarse says:

    Is that a wheesht Henry/Jackson?

  230. ElGordo says:

    Thought Nicola was good on Marr today, think she will probably be even better in front of the committee over the coming weeks. There really is nobody else these days that comes even close. Always satisfying to see.

    All in all it has been fairly positive over the last few days, roadmap for indy published, 20th pro indy poll in a row (even with the dodgy question and no 16/17 year olds), majority forecast for pro indy parties, recognition in the UK media that indyref needs to be considered, the long drawn out “enquiry” eventually drawing to a conclusion and after the whimpering we can all move beyond the bowling club / community newsletter politics.

    On the eve of Burns day, that must.

  231. Davie Oga says:


    1 Irish grand parent, born anywhere on the island of Ireland gets you Irish citizenship. Straightforward, relatively cheap. Plenty of Scots qualify.

  232. Dan says:

    OT Continuing lockdown boredom and isolation, combined with fookin freezing temps have resulted in the creation of a new game.
    Whilst cutting firewood earlier I noticed that the copiced wood limbs I had were nice and straight, so I cut them into ten 18 inch lengths and stood them on their ends in a triangular configuration to create a game I’ve called “Stickles”.
    One rolls a ball or throws a wellie at the stickles to try and knock as many of them over as possible to score points.

    Well, after a cup of hot choccy and a browse through the week’s junk mail the game has evolved, as I’ve cut out pics of politicians from their campaigning literature and stapled them onto the stickles.
    The new game is called “Shitles”, where players are motivated to express their dissatisfaction and knock over their least favoured politicians.

    #Stickles #Shitles #TopStumps

  233. Bob Mack says:

    @El Gordoo,

    Sorry.I don’t enjoy Nicola pornography like yourself.

  234. Lenny Shoulders says:

    Is there really any point in independence if this is the best we can do with devolution?

  235. ElGordo says:


    Just to confirm, you have been going a bit off your nut due to you isolation during this lockdown.

    To relieve this (and feed this) you have been cutting out picture of politicians from leaflets, then sticking them onto bits of wood, and you are now smashing them with an axe? You call this new game shittles.

    If all work and no play makes Dan a dull boy, you may decide to go out danvassing over the coming weeks?

  236. P says:

    Have you seen that Dornan blocked Angus McNeil on Twitter?

  237. robertknight says:


    Thanks for your contribution at 9:08- I was in need of a good laugh!

  238. cynicalHighlander says:


    Still in La La land I see. You need help.

  239. Beaker says:

    @Bob Mack says:
    24 January, 2021 at 9:13 pm
    “@El Gordoo,
    Sorry.I don’t enjoy Nicola pornography like yourself.”

    That’s tonight’s nightmare sorted… 🙂

  240. ElGordo says:

    ..was thinking @Boabie maybe gave away a bit too much during that leap.

  241. Bob Mack says:

    @El Gordo.

    Boabie now ?

    I can almost smell the scented candles and baby oil as you look at herv. picture lol.

  242. ElGordo says:

    Thanks, but not my thing.

    I had you down as more of a scented screen wipes kinda guy..

  243. JB says:

    So essentially, given the HR system, 2 independence parties are needed. A constituency only party (or constituency plus list), and a list only party. The list only as described wrt ISP so as to soak up any independence votes on the list when the first party has a majority of the constituency seats.

    These obviously have to be independent parties, with their own policies, but sharing that independence policy. Given that the current SNP is more or less an umbrella organisation, containing disparate views, it would be possible say to split in to a “left” and a “right” party, or a “woke” and a “non-woke” party. i.e. it seems the time for the umbrella may have passed.

    If the SNP were acting sensibly then they could serve the former function, the ISP can serve the latter. The question then becomes (assuming the current SNP is broken), how to get a new replacement for them?

    Running a new one as a constituency+list party would allow them to get in to position, just as the SNP did previously. However that would probably take 2 or 3 election cycles. So unless the current SNP can be brought back to book, it’ll be another 10-15 years before another run at independence can be taken.

  244. Hugh Jarse says:

    Move along now, nothing to see here.
    Eh Fat man. Fucking delusional.

  245. Bob Mack says:

    @El Gordo.

    You made an spectacle of yourself. Thats o.k.. The post wasjust a bit creepy to start with. A bit superfan.

    Sadly it became even less rational as it progressed

    I wish you happy dreams..Ha ha ha

  246. Davie Oga says:

    Paul McLennen, current councillor, SNP candidate for East Lothian

    “There was no promise that we wouldn’t leave the EU- what’s important is we win big in May and secure another referendum”

    We’ve always been at war with Eurasia

  247. holymacmoses says:

    Del G says:
    24 January, 2021 at 8:27 pm
    I was blocked on twitter by Wings, Grousebeater and James Kelly, for saying things they didn’t like – for failing to conform to their individual party lines. So (personally) I think it’s a bit rich when they pitch into the SNP for doing the same.

    Maybe not what you said but how (and how many) times you said it:-)

  248. ElGordo says:


    Ah well, some get it, some donut

  249. Contrary says:

    *sigh* je ne sais pas.

    I’m looking at stuff on the harassment inquiry based on exact dates – and I wanted, merely for context, not in relation to the harassment procedure in itself, an exact date of when McCann from SNP HQ sent the text saying that he’d sit on complaints and hoped he wouldn’t need to deploy them. I have it that text exchanges took place ‘late 2017’ – was the exact date of his message ever published anywhere? I’d be very interested to know.

  250. Bob Mack says:


    From memory the date the complaint was lodged with McCann was Guy Faskes night 2017.

  251. Bob Mack says:


    Fawkes of course. The story was in the Herald 10\3 20.

  252. A Person says:

    Just a thought-

    What do you think Sturgeon and Murrell talk about in their house?

    Are they going “we have this nice little racket sorted”?

    Or are they going “oh good God, this is out of control, this will destroy us, what have we done!” ?

    Are they “stepped in blood so far…returning were as tedious as go o’er” or are they desperately looking for a way out?

  253. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Contrary

    I think that little nugget of information came out during Alex trial?

    The caring sharing oh so woman friendly snp, didn’t see anything morally dubious about holding a damaging allegation over someone, and only bringing it out, as leverage to force them to do what they asked.

    Ot. Can anyone provide NS update on the result of today’s snp conference. Was anything positive achieved, or is it same old?

  254. Cadogan Enright says:

    Awful rubbish being posted here tonight

    I find it difficult to believe that most of are supporters of Independence.

    Nut##rs determined to snatch defeat from he Jaws of victory.

    Twilight zone material

  255. Contrary says:

    Thanks Bob Mack! Excellent – What a memory 🙂

  256. Cadogan Enright says:

    Makes no sense to damage constituency vote.

    What we need is for Alex to run As non-SNP on the list

  257. Bob Mack says:

    @Cadogan Enright,

    What victory ?

  258. Bob Mack says:

    @Cadogan Enright,

    Well if its any compensation the polls indicate they will win anyway. They don’t need the votes of us “unsavoury” types on Wings apparently.

  259. Aunty Flo says:

    Diz anybiddy ken i’ Dominion voting machines / software are in use anywhere in Scotland at all, tae process postal votes?

    Just askin’ ….

  260. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cadogan Enright at 10:32 pm.

    You suggested,
    “What we need is for Alex to run As non-SNP on the list”

    Funnily enough, I had a blether with “Dundee Annie” this afternoon and both of us saw the possibility of AS standing as “Alex Salmond Independent” in the constituency of Banff and Buchan AND on the NE Scotland regional vote as “Alex Salmond Independent”.

    That would fair set the cat amongst the pigeons, iye?

  261. ElGordo says:

    @Auntie Flo

    Funtastic sco’ish, whur doid yee lurn it?

    Memories of allo’ allo’ or was it captain correllis.

    Anyhoo, the answer to the question is no, but you may wish to double check on 4chan, 8chan, or Qchan.

  262. Dan says:

    @ ElGordo at 9:20 pm

    That’s an interesting and rather twisted response to what was clearly just a bit of bantz.
    You may want to consider that some individual’s personal circumstances have been extremely tough to deal with over the past year. There are many struggling due to financial and socially restrictive aspects.
    Not all are fortunate enough to live happily with partners, or in family units, or even have family in the same local authority area to meet up with.

  263. ElGordo says:


    I’m sorry, no axe to grind here.

    It’s chilly outside, just try your best to keep yourself in doors, for all of those lucky enough to be happy.

    Save lives, protect the sane etc

    No harm in building a few years firewood up if your feeling a bit angry, won’t go to waste.

  264. 100%Yes says:

    @A Person 10:21PM

    On the Marr show, she on with these woman’s are victims and Mr Salmond is a dirty old bastard, hasn’t anyone told this woman that the trail is over and the man is innocent of all charges what a spiteful rotten sack of shite for a human being. Mr Salmond is bad and his inner and outer circle are making up lies about me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me. I bet at her side of the bed are a pictures of these woman and in another room he’s got a picture of Austin Powers/Dr. Evil.

  265. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I was furloughed from April until 2nd Nov last year.

    My only regular contact was my son (who lives with his Mum), who carries all my weekly shopping up 4 flights of stairs. He also helps out with the shopping for my pal, who is shielding, due to undergoing dialysis.

    We have blethers while in my car.

    Keeps me sane.

    Back at work now, as an essential worker. Social interaction helps the mental condition.

  266. ElGordo says:

    @ 100%Yes

    Have you tried cutting up political leaflets you receive through the door, and putting the cut out politicians heads on bits of wood, and then smashing them with an axe? It’s called shittles.

  267. cynicalHighlander says:

    For those still in the real world.

  268. Frank Ness says:

    Sturgeon’s new party piece:-

    Clasp hands and pull closely to breast, tilt head to one side, then talk in a reverential voice saying,

    “I will never forget the innocent female victims in all of this”

    Well if these women are still claiming they were molested by a male work colleague, then shouldn’t the Police not still be looking for the perpetrator, because the only guy that has been accused of all these charges had been found NOT GUILTY on all counts.

    What say you Nicola?

  269. Dan says:

    ElGordo says: at 11:07 pm

    Have you tried cutting up political leaflets you receive through the door, and putting the cut out politicians heads on bits of wood, and then smashing them with an axe? It’s called shittles.

    That’s not Shitles ya roaster!
    You can’t even spell it right and you’ve twice added the violence of smashing stuff with an axe when the game in its pure form is played with a ball or wellie that is used to knock over the stickage.

  270. ElGordo says:


    So which is it, ball or wellie?

  271. Frank Ness says:

    El Gordo

    Can you tell me what the plan is regarding indyRef2 over the next 12 months?

    I am genuinely curious.

    So after the landslide Holyrood election victory, what is next for Scotland regarding a Referendum?

  272. Elmac says:

    Frank Ness 11.14

    As you say, what innocent victims? There was only one – AS himself. The women were party to a criminal conspiracy and some, if not all, committed perjury. What the dear leader should be concerned about is why these woman have not been prosecuted and their identities made known. Does she think we all have heads which button up the back?

  273. robertknight says:

    Cadogan Enright.

    Damage the constituency vote?

    Whose constituency vote?

    The party that thinks it’s entitled to mine just because I support Scottish Independence?

    It’s MY vote my friend, to give to whom I see fit, or not as the case may be.

    It’s not the SNP’s vote or any other bugger’s.

    You and the rest of the flock do what you see fit, but I’ll not be voting for anyone who smells of perjury, witness tampering, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, misconduct in public office or anything close to it.

    I don’t want to live in a country governed by people who have questionable motives and are of highly dubious character.

    You wheesht for Indy all you like, but don’t come here to talk about “twilight zones” – take your willfully blind loyalty to a senior politician only interested in settling scores, saving her own skin and turning my country into a Woke utopia shackled to the Union, and piss off back to WGD!

  274. ElGordo says:


    Well, tbh, during lockdown, in the absence of being able to enjoy myself spending an hour in the early evening, taking a seat at the bar, making myself available to an, how do i say this, slightly inebriated older fellow, to engage with, lets call him jake, which i do miss a lot, i often just pop in here as a substitute. And tbf, the whole axe chopping thing tonight was fantastic, was just like life in the pub back in the old pre-lockdown days.

    But to answer the question, i think the general plan is to have a referendum after winning election in may.

  275. wee monkey says:

    Maybe the chat bandwidth usage was costing a small queens ransome ?

  276. Bob Mack says:

    @El Gordo,

    How is Alyn these days?

  277. mike cassidy says:


    In the gathering storm that is Woke Scotland

    And presumably even woker after May

    Scottish schools accused of eroding parental rights by asking local authorities to intervene in gender dysphoria cases

  278. ElGordo says:

    If it wasn’t for lockdown, i would have probably met Dan in the pub, had a bit of banter, and be back playing shittles with him tonight.

    Having a laugh, drinking beer, downing shots, throwing wellies, balls or axes (to be confirmed) at a bit of wood with politicians heads stuck to them.

    Hopefully sometime the next day there would have been a public appeal on my whereabouts and I would have been found in the shed at the bottom of the garden the following week, with an appropriate leaflet taped over my face.

  279. Famous15 says:

    That is it!

    Brown and Gove launch bid to “save” the Union.

    Independence will save our sanity!

    LET’S GO!

  280. Frank Ness says:

    ElGordo 11.55pm

    “…and I would have been found in the shed at the bottom of the garden the following week, with an appropriate leaflet taped over my face”.

    And you know what El Gordo,,,nobody would have given a fuck!!!

  281. ElGordo says:

    I don’t think that is true for anybody that dies, even you.

  282. Bob Mack says:

    @Frank Ness,

    Maybe “Jake” . Maybe.

  283. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Well, I see Frank Ness/Clyde/Ronald Fraser/whoever doesn’t bother to read previous comments when he comes back on shift.

    Makes it obvious who he’s working for, iye?

  284. Iain Wee Brocher says:

    I am dismayed at events generally like many. That would be the drift in the SNP and its leadership as they just don’t behave like Scot Nats or believers in Scots Indy any longer or so it seems. There is a stench that is rank coming from the SNP these days. It needs a good scourging.

    However the Quisling Party’s getting in come May doesn’t bear thinking about. That would be the nightmare scenario as the out and out Quizzers, that would be the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems would change the rules to prevent any chance of there ever being another referendum again.

    We live in a world where we are damned if don’t vote SNP on the constituency vote and damned if we do. It is a depressing outcome however I look at it. Well I have no 8intention of voting for them on the list vote. They lost that right when they attempted to stitch up Alex Salmond and send him to jail.

    The other thing that dismays me is that thousands of Scots have been murdered by the English Tories who have let covid 19 go virtually unchecked and the Scots Press and Media has stood by and decried none of it. They should be done for war crimes and crimes against humanity. 8I fear that if the Yoons get a coalition in May then thousands more Scots will be murdered with impunity. Scots condemned by covid 19 and poverty to early graves.

    In May on the constituency vote I fear I will probably be voting for the lesser of several evils. It sickens me to the depths of my soul.

    That is my groats worth for what it is worth. Hailsa Alba.

  285. twathater says:

    @ BDTT I posted upthread about AS standing as an independent INDEPENDENCE candidate in Sturgeon’s constituency , I prefer my version as it would give him more satisfaction and probably a greater chance of election

  286. Liz g says:

    Brian Doonthetoon @ 12.33
    Holding two opposing views simultaneously and being oblivious to it …. aye he/she’s a bit stupid that way … but I still trigger every one of his imaginary friends 🙂 in that at least he’s constant …

  287. Frank Ness says:

    I see the two site drunks from the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website are appearing as a double act,,,and still not a bad word said about their beloved Nikla.

    Go on,,,say just one bad thing about St Nicola,,, just one.

    I hope the two of you are in the process of building a Wee Gingerbread Man’s stall for the next rally,,, because the two of you would have a fuckin cheek standing at a Wings Over Scotland stall.

    And yet I wouldn’t put it past the two of you to have the neck to do just that.

    Ya Perra Chancers.

  288. Robert Louis says:

    Mac at 821pm,

    Totally agree. I too would contribute for a crowdfunder for such a case. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see him take them to the fecking cleaners. Given the ‘the rangers’ case, why has the lord advocate still he not been sacked? His boss is Nicola Sturgeon.

    Meanwhile, so it seems, the cover up continues.

    As for the SNP, the sneering contempt which Alyn Smith has expressed recently for indy supporters, tells us everything about how badly out of touch the SNP have become.

    I’ll vote ISP on the list, and SNP if May’s election is a decider on independence. If not, the SNP will not get my vote. Nicola Sturgeon’s previous promises have been shown to be worth nothing.

    Sadly, I think a period booted out of office, might be all that can sort out the SNP, and careerists like pension pete and the likes of Alyn Smith. They have abandoned the independence movement. Or, you might say (as I was for a very long time in the SNP), I didn’t leave the SNP, the SNP left me.

  289. Frank Ness says:

    I see the two site drunks from the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website appearing as a double act,,,and still not a bad word said about their beloved Nikla.

    Go on,,,say just one bad thing about St Nicola,,,just one.

    I hope the two of you are in the process of building a Wee Gingerbread Man’s stall for the next rally,,, because the two of you would have a fuckin cheek standing at a Wings Over Scotland stall.

    And yet I wouldn’t put it past the two of you to have the neck to do just that.

    Ya Perra Chancers…

  290. Samuel says:

    Sturgeon’s Govanhill constituency in Glasgow has a huge Asian community, I don’t know who would win in a head to head between her and Salmond.

  291. PacMan says:

    Cadogan Enright says: 24 January, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    Awful rubbish being posted here tonight

    I find it difficult to believe that most of are supporters of Independence.

    Nut##rs determined to snatch defeat from he Jaws of victory.

    Twilight zone material

    We have denigrated and ridiculed people in the past for turning up election after election and voting for Labour. Maybe this is the reason why they had did it?

    As much as I like WGD as it is a source of information, all I hear is ToryBad and nothing else.

    I can’t see Johnson lasting the year. Brexit is turning into a disaster and his handling of the vaccine with lengthening the time between doses is also going to be a disaster.

    Guess what? Tory-lite Labour and Sir Knight of the realm will be taking over the reigns once the Tories fall as the Labour lot are just one of them.

    What is going to happen next? Will we all be going LabourBad and hope they mess it up as bad as the Tories?

    That’s not really a strategy for gaining independence, is it?

  292. Sarah says:

    @ Dan at 9.10 p.m.: “coppiced wood lengths”.

    The world was a better place when people had natural systems for producing tools, furniture, houses from the materials at hand, wasn’t it?

    Where I lived in Kent there were sweet chestnut coppices and a woodyard producing chestnut paling fencing, amongst other things. I later saw some such used as snow fencing in Wester Ross. When it was replaced by black plastic [ugh] the chestnut fence was left for years, still unrotted. Some of it has now found a new home…

    Well, that was a pleasant interlude before going back to brooding on whether it is a good system whereby one person, backed by 60 other MSPs, can prevent the voters saying whether they would like to run their own country. Sigh

  293. Breeks says:

    Cadogan Enright says:
    24 January, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    Awful rubbish being posted here tonight

    I find it difficult to believe that most of are supporters of Independence.

    Nut##rs determined to snatch defeat from he Jaws of victory.

    Twilight zone material

    It looks pretty black and white to me.

    Clear out the useless, corrupt trash passing itself off as Leadership, and maybe the SNP vote won’t collapse in May.


    Keep the corruption and hubris on board, sail on regardless, and watch as the vote stays at home in May, and the recovery which follows thereafter focuses around the ISP, because the SNP will be a dirty word.

    Over to you SNP… But gotta say, my expectations are low.

  294. Sarah says:

    @ Breeks at 8.39: my fear is that things will be even worse. The SNP will win in May and sail on with the same captain and crew.

  295. rodmid says:

    I was on the National Assembly unlike most of your disciples and found I could get comments and questions on, no problem. Saw several posts from J Cherry, C McEleny and A MacNeil.
    I was in a long conversation/chat session with Joanna Cherry about the process of gaining Independence. We were joined by Keith Brown & Michelle Thompson amongst others. I also had a one-to-one conversation with Dott Jessiman & Chris Hanlon. There was no topic off the table and I said what I thought.

    Came on here last night to tell the truth but the comments were disabled or hidden – are you going to allow this on?

  296. Breeks says:

    Sarah says:
    25 January, 2021 at 9:11 am

    @ Breeks at 8.39: my fear is that things will be even worse. The SNP will win in May and sail on with the same captain and crew.

    Aye Sarah, that’s true, but like the Tories ruling Westminster, it’s not being done in my name.

  297. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Sarah @ 9.11am

    Or,perhaps even worse – for once the Unionists get their timing right and the absolute tsunami of shite which they unleash on the head of Sturgeon and the SNP – all the bad stuff they are NOT using at the moment, works.

    The SNP, while still the biggest party, loses seats and finds its ability to get things done, even with support from smaller parties, fatally compromised.

    Scotland suffers, we perhaps see Holyrood shut down “temporarily” in favour of direct rule from Westminster – and it really will be a 2054 before we get Indyref2.

    Not that this will worry me, I will be long dead by then. However, the damage to Scotland will be such, we will be totally fucked.

    Get the trash out – now, and give new leadership time to put things right.

  298. Sharny Dubs says:


    Or, once the SNP have their balloon popped in May, time for WM to move on to plan B/C/D etc to dismantle ISP and the independence movement generally while they strip Scotland of its powers and assets. They will never allow us to get as close as we did in 14’ again. They can’t afford to loose Scotland.
    Sorry to be so pessimistic, but.

  299. Robert Hughes says:

    Breeks says ” Clear out the useless, corrupt trash passing itself off as Leadership, and maybe the SNP vote won’t collapse in May.”

    Agreed . But I think the fear of allowing a Unionist takeover of Holyrood is a legitimate concern : the consequences of such could set us back indefinitely/terminally .

    At the moment everything is up in the air , we still don’t know what – if any – changes will result from the conclusions of the enquiry , though admittedly there’s a good chance NS will survive and still be in place in May .

    If so , denying the SNP a vote ( I totally understand the motivations for doing so ) will be a gamble which could pay-off if – and it’s a big if – other Pro-Indy Parties are the beneficiaries or could result in the nightmare scenario referred to above .

    The question then is could we afford to lose Holyrood for 5 years and hope to build a solid support of sufficient numbers in an alternative to the SNP to come back and retake Holyrood .

    Alternatively , bypass Holyrood completely and seek a truly grassroots , peoples movement to force the issue from the ground up .

    I think we’re still at the wait and see stage

  300. Effijy says:

    Again I say that not voting SNP when ISP don’t have candidates in every constituency
    is then a vote for Unionism and an indicator that there is no appetite for independence.

    Grit your teeth and get on with it but under no circumstances give your second vote to
    anyone other than ISP.

    Wasting your ballot paper with slogans or drawings does nothing other than have the counters
    throw it in the spoiled box when no one else sees or cares what is on it.

    Sarwar has the money to make himself the latest North Accounting Unit manager.
    He can have influence in Nicola’s constituency which is certainly not short of Pakistani
    or Muslim voters.

    Most these people came here for a British life and not Scottish.
    With limited understand of English or politics i see most of them
    preserving anything not British as a danger to their life style.

    Working with many of them, 9 out of 10 with e-Mail all have the address ending in
    The U.K. element is much sought after.

    U.K. media, U.K. Civil Service and the 77th will be attacking Nicola like never
    before pre election. She may be glad to retire come May?

  301. Sarah says:

    @ Breeks, Socrates MacSporran, Sharny Dubs:

    Cheerful moment first: Have a good Burns Day – read some poems, hum some tunes, enjoy your haggis and dram.

    Right, that’s enough pleasure. Back to the gloom. What can we as citizens do?

    1. I wrote to the entire Fabiani committee members pleading with them to pursue the truth regardless of party etc as Holyrood’s integrity is at stake. The next news in the same week was their application for more documents from Crown Office. So perhaps we should all write to the committee.

    2. What about writing to the 60 SNP MSPs pointing out some home truths. You could include the 61st, the FM, if you wished.

    The major problem is that one person decides whether we the people will get a vote on our country’s existence. That person is the Leader of the SNP. Are you all comfortable with that?

  302. Papko says:

    “Sarah says:
    25 January, 2021 at 9:11 am

    @ Breeks at 8.39: my fear is that things will be even worse. The SNP will win in May and sail on with the same captain and crew”

    That’s what will happen: I have seen the results.

  303. Davie Oga says:

    From “A Dream”, Robert Burns

    Adieu, my Liege; may freedom geck
    Beneath your high protection;
    An’ may ye rax Corruption’s neck,
    And gie her for dissection!

  304. Sarah says:

    @ Davie Oga: nice quote for Burns day. Can you send it round all the online Burns Suppers?

  305. Keith fae Leith says:

    Effijy @ 9.34am

    You can say it as many times as you like, doesn’t make it true.

    The only way to vote for a Unionist party is to actually physically put a cross next to their name.

    Stop peddling this pish, please.

    Some of your input is good, but for those of us who frequent Wings for the truth, no matter how distasteful, find these outpourings of “mistruths” to be every bit as bad.

    Agree with the other responses to Cadogan, all we want is for the SNP to earn our Constituency vote. It doesn’t belong to them.

    “Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”

    Victory for whom? Until there is a mechanism for Independence the polls mean the square root of bugger all.

  306. Hugh Jarse says:

    According to the one eyed snake from Fife, votes for Indy are “undemocratic “.
    This cnut should be run out the country.
    He’s the full John Deere.

  307. crisiscult says:

    Sorry if this has been covered previously on this or other threads. Quick question that could influence my vote (or not) for SNP.

    Is there a process in Holyrood that the Government can bring itself down? What I mean is that if the SNP were able to say in their manifesto that if we are elected, we will stand down and there’ll be new Holyrood elections if we can’t deliver an independence referendum by Date X?

  308. Checks notes says:

    Effijy says:
    …Grit your teeth and get on with it but under no circumstances give your second vote to anyone other than ISP.

    You forgot about Martin Keatings in Mid Scotland and Fife, he’s done more to advance our cause than the SNP. The man’s a hero

  309. Ottomanboi says:

    The semiotics demonstrate that the SNP is not a true party of liberation.
    It is, however, well suited to the prescriptive/proscriptive, angst provoking ‘stay safe’ themes of the moment.
    What a bore.

  310. robertknight says:


    All spoiled ballots are checked and verified with election agents and officials looking on, particularly if it’s a close race.

    If 55% of the List vote go to Indy parties then only a complete zoomer would try to assert there is no appetite for Indy, especially as unlike the Constituency ballot, the personal appeal, or lack thereof, of a candidate doesn’t sway the voter either way on the List.

  311. Effijy says:

    Does anyone remember a story from the 1930’d like this
    one in the Telegraph?

    Tory revolt looms over state plans to use child spies against their parents.

    And Scottish Unionists want to head down this road to a full fascist state.

    Absolutely unbelievable.

    Where is any firm of opposition that would tear the Tories apart for this monstrosity?

  312. Breeks says:

    Robert Hughes says:
    25 January, 2021 at 9:26 am

    …Alternatively , bypass Holyrood completely and seek a truly grassroots , peoples movement to force the issue from the ground up .

    To be honest, that’s exactly where I sit on the spectrum.

    Holyrood, even under the SNP, is the living embodiment of Westminster rule, just specially packaged to make it more digestible to Scotland.

    Right now, we Scots have to reconcile a Holyrood which allegedly protects us, with a Holyrood which sells our Constitutional rights down the river.

    I’m not quite ready to completely give up on Holyrood as a Constitutional red herring which distorts the Constitutional arguments over sovereignty, … but I’m getting there.

    Holyrood must decide whether it is our Parliament, or Westminster’s, but it’s currently looking very much like it’s heart and soul is theirs, and that it’s only a ‘fair weather friend’ to Scotland.

    Devolution is not a prerquisite to Independence. In Scotland’s case, it’s looking more and more like a manipulative delaying tactic specifically designed to muddy the Constitutional waters.

    Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, the popular sovereignty of the people, should NOT be a peripheral argument which so many people readily dismiss as a crank theory. The fact it is, is testimony to the decades of Union Establishment’s sophistry and manipulation of the narrative.

    Don’t drink the UK Kool-aid Scotland. Defend your Constitutionally sovereign birthright, with or without Holyrood’s “help”.

  313. Effijy says:

    Check Notes-
    Martin is a hero and that is why I contribute to the cause.

  314. kapelmeister says:

    Gordon Brown wants a UK Forum of the Nations and Regions. How many times has he come out with facile rubbish like this?

    Brownedhog Day.

  315. Sarah says:

    @ Breeks and Robert Hughes “a truly grassroots movement..”

    Exactly – a Yes party, straight out, no messing. That is what we needed as the new indy party. Everyone in the Yes movement could have got right behind it and we would have won all the list seats.

    A clear. single-message party, just like the Brexit Party. What stopped the ISP doing this? And if the Electoral Commission objected to the name, then have that as the sub-title and Aye for Scotland as a top-of-the-ballot paper alternative.

  316. mike cassidy says:

    And just in case you thought 2021 could not be as Alice-In-Wonderland as 2020

    The Daily Telegraph blames Germany for brexit

  317. Davie Oga says:

    Cadogan Enright, by all accounts is decent, hardworking councillor yet he seems to take pleasure in coming here once in a while, insulting people by calling them unionists, and implying Stuart has lost his way. I would suggest that there are very few unionists that post on this site and the journalism produced by Wings over the past few months has been “Woodward and Bernstein” standard.

    He wouldn’t be so quick with the insults and concern trolling if his electorate were on here.

  318. Effijy says:

    Keith far Leith,

    OK Keith, work this one out for yourself.
    Let’s say half of us SNP supports put rude drawings
    on our ballot papers and the Unionist all use theirs to
    vote for the 3 London Parties.

    Who would have the majority in Holyrood?
    Who would run a U.K. wide media story that support for independence has halved, they
    are a minority party at Holyrood, there is no appetite for Independence so no referendum required?

    Do you think the BBC will have a documentary about the number of cock and balls drawings on
    Ballot papers and about the disgusting slogans in the SNP Box?

    Not on your life!

    Just as Labour abstains on most things, it lets the Tories do whatever they like.
    You must vote and it must be seen to be a vote for independence.

    I can’t think of any political leader I don’t want more than Boris.

  319. Robert Hughes says:

    Breeks – as ever , spot-on mon ami .

    I’ve been thinking/feeling for some time that it will require something other than SNP/Parliamentary activity to achieve our goal , though like yourself I haven’t completely abandoned the possibility of at least a role for those two elements , again , like yourself , it’s getting pretty close

  320. Gregor says:

    George Galloway prediction:

    ‘Things are about to change…this coming week, there will be a DRAMATIC EVENT, which may bring the house down. For the Murrells, for the first Minister of Scotland…’:

  321. Mac says:

    The SNP are not going to get wiped out even if everyone reading this site did not vote for them.

    However, in that rather suspicious election (in 2017) where Alex Salmond lost his seat and the SNP lost something like 20 MPs from having 55 out of 58 (I think it was) it was caused by a chunk of the SNP vote ‘not turning out’. Just a chunk…

    Assuming Nicola is still in the job come the next election I think people angry at this whole situation should do the same and not turn out (for the SNP at least).

    That I think would deliver a sufficient ‘bloody nose’ to the SNP leadership and precipitate a leadership challenge and Nicola and her husband’s departure.

    Sometimes you’ve got to backwards to ultimately start going forwards again. We have not made any progress in six years. Effectively that means we have gone backwards as we stood still while our opponents did not.

    If by some miracle the SNP don’t get the message at this election then we send another electoral punch to the face and kick to the happy sack at the next Westminster election and so on until they do.

    I strongly suspect once this shower of shitbag MPs (with a few rare exceptions) see their own cushy wee number is in danger they will dessert NS and Murrell faster than a rat can launch itself off a sinking ship.

    Let’s face most of these Sturgeonite Yes wo/men are utterly dispensable anyway. Using some of them as fodder to bring down Sturgeon has a certain poetic justice to it as well. Ideally Pishy Pants Pete would be one.

  322. Shug says:

    I see Baillie is going for Murrell on perjury.

    Even Nicola must see it will not be long before one of the coven will be going for queens evidence. It will be a race as only the first one or two can get the free pass

  323. Fionan says:

    Re the neonicotinoids being used as a seed treatment rather than a spray, this is every bit as damaging to the environment and to our vital pollinators. During the process of distributing treated seed, the neonics are carried in a fine dust through the air, contaminating everything in their path.They enter the waterways and build up in the bodies of aquatic animals and through them, are liable to enter the food chain. Neonics are nerve agents.

  324. Jim F. McIntosh says:

    I think the only way the truth will come out as regards the inquiry is if someone is prepared to go to jail for going against the corrupt legal establishment!

  325. Colin Alexander says:

    Looking beyond the Murrells (Scotland’s tribute act to the Philippines’ Imelda and Ferdinand Marcos and Romania’s Nicolae and Elena Ceaucescu).

    IF Sturgeon were to step down, the dynamic ( sorry anaemic) Keith Brown would be interim leader until such time as the Murrells’ close ally, Angus Robertson, is installed as Colonial First Minister to continue the destruction of Scotland’s independence movement.

    As Leader of the National Party, german speaker Mr Robertson, and his wife, would be able to continue the tribute act to famous political couples.

  326. Mac says:

    Ooooh that Galloway tweet above is very interesting indeed.

    But George, the hat man… c’mon.

  327. Mia says:

    “The question then is could we afford to lose Holyrood for 5 years”

    Look at the unbelievable level of deep and blatant corruption that has emerged under Sturgeon’s government. She has compromised the credibility of our democracy, our parliament, our government, our COPFS, our police. Look at the farce the inquiry has become. Holyrood is already lost. Sturgeon has already lost us over 6 years and the SNP under her or her reverse gradualist followers’ control will lose us another 5 if none of the Plan B’s take over the party, which they will not be allowed to. They will willingly join Gordon Brown handing over the key to Holyrood to Westminster if prompted to.

    If the SNP does not win in May, frankly, what exactly do we have to lose that they have not lost us already? What has the SNP under Sturgeon done to progress our autonomy, to protect our constitutional rights, our democratic structures and our sovereignty?

    Nothing. To even suggest that she will not continue to sht over all of those for another 5 years, to reverse our autonomy and democracy even further and continue to abuse power to prosecute dissenters if given the chance is naive and from where I am standing looks very much like burying the head in the sand.

    If after watching how this fraud handed over our powers and assets to Westminster and undermined our sovereignty, the SNP is the only way we can protect the ones we have left, frankly we are well and truly fckd because what they will do is to hand over what is worth to Westminster.

    We have 3 months left to stop this haemorrhage of power, democracy, sovereignty and rights. The Assembly yesterday and the sneaky release of the 11 points of sht right before it was the last proof that anybody should ever need to realise this party as a pro indy vehicle will never go anywhere because somebody has deliberately removed from them the wheels and the engine and somebody is blocking anybody else trying to put them back. Sturgeon removed the engine and the wheels. the ones stopping them being put back is everybody’s guess. Mine is the British state by infiltrating the party.

    The SNP is now at all effects the biggest obstacle to Scotland’s independence. Why continue to look backwards to what it could have been and wasting our vote on them anymore, then?

    “Humans are the only animal that trips twice over the same stone”
    We made a mistake trusting Sturgeon’s SNP in 2015. We made a mistake trusting Sturgeon’s SNP on 2017. We made a mistake trusting Sturgeon’s SNP in 2019. That is already three times we have tripped over the same stone. Time to bypass the stone.

  328. Liz says:

    Sarah says:
    25 January, 2021 at 10:33 am
    @ Breeks and Robert Hughes “a truly grassroots movement..”

    Exactly – a Yes party, straight out, no messing. That is what we needed as the new indy party. Everyone in the Yes movement could have got right behind it and we would have won all the list seats.

    A clear. single-message party, just like the Brexit Party. What stopped the ISP doing this? And if the Electoral Commission objected to the name, then have that as the sub-title and Aye for Scotland as a top-of-the-ballot paper alternative.

    I said a long time ago that we needed to do what the Brexit party did – not the lies ofcourse, but standing on a single issue. Unfortunately the Brexit party had big doners, lots of money amd MSM on their side – something we don’t. Hard to get a new party recognised by the majority of the electorate, made harder with Covid, and also when you are battling the ‘might’ of the SNP who absolutely do not want another indy party to come into contention.

  329. Fionan says:

    Oops as always, I am miles behind the thread, sorry for the neonic post being so far off-topic when the discussion had moved so much further on.

    Interesting tweet re George Galloway speaking. Also the comment re Jackie Baillie going after Murrell for perjury – does anyone have a link to that information? Things are happening so fast now that the popcorn will be running out.

    Re voting, I don’t think I can bring myself to vote snp unless there is a big change in high heid yins and also in attitude towards we little voting fodder people. I am a bit tempted to vote for an alternative party like isp on the list, but I don’t trust them to be anything other than jumpers on the bandwagon – they don’t reply to potential voters’ emails and they certainly have shown no reassuring info about themselves. Also one of their main representatives/salespersons on here is rude and arrogant – not a good look. The other would-be alternative-indy parties are like ghosts, barely ever seen or heard and those glimpses are unsubstantial.

    I wish AS would stand, but I can fully understand why he would not, what he has been through these past few years must have been hugely debilitating. I know what a witch-hunt is like. But if well-known and trusted individuals would stand against the worst of the snp politicians as independents, that would surely help to remove a lot of the rot within the snp. We live in interesting times!

  330. Keith fae Leith says:


    1. Tough to call, in a lot of constituencies 50% of the SNP previous vote would still win the seat. I’ve not done any calculations. I don’t advocate drawing silly pictures.

    2. The media run those stories regardless, check WM 2017 election

    3. Irrelevant, nobody watches the BBC, the candidates get to see the spoiled ballots, any speculation I can add is just that, same as yours, speculation.

    Technically not your 4th question, but I agree, I don’t want Boris either. I want to be able to vote, in some format, to be rid of the ability of the Johnston’s, May’s, Blair’s et al. But at present, a vote for the SNP gets me no closer to that goal.

    I fully plan on voting, what I’m asking for is for the party to give me a reason to vote for them.

    I, for one, much prefer voting FOR something rather than AGAINST something.

  331. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Came on here last night to tell the truth but the comments were disabled or hidden – are you going to allow this on?”

    Sigh. No they weren’t. As is CLEARLY STATED, a person’s first comment is always moderated as an anti-spam measure. And as I don’t spend 24 hours a day monitoring the comments, it can take a while for your first one to be approved.

  332. Sarah says:

    @ Liz: perhaps it needs you and me to get together! A Yes party is blindingly obvious.

    As for funding it, the Yes troops work for free and crowdfund when necessary. I am sure it could have worked.

    If only we had got it going in 2019 or even 2020. I’m ready to weep at missing this chance.

  333. Sarah says:

    @ rodmid at 9.12: I was there too but in a different conversation. The chat was disabled during some of the set speeches, I thought, and then opened for comments after. I might be wrong. There was so much to watch and listen to that it was difficult to catch everything – I was shattered by the end of the day.

  334. DundeeDancer says:

    I really enjoyed the SNP National Assembly yesterday. Plenty of opportunities to voice my concerns and receive sensible answers back. We have safe hands with Michael Russell. We Scots need to stick together on the sensible path. Normal Scottish Parliament election, then if a majority of MSPs in Holyrood want Indyref2 then the SNP government will organise for one. If Westminster try to block it then they will be in the wrong and the international community will then support our cause all the more. Constituency:SNP, List:Greens for me, anything else is too risky.

  335. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “If Westminster try to block it then they will be in the wrong and the international community will then support our cause all the more. Constituency:SNP, List:Greens for me, anything else is too risky.”

    Thank you for visiting Planet Earth. Was the journey from your own galaxy a long one?

  336. Stuart MacKay says:

    > the international community will then support our cause all the more.

    Yes, the Chagos Islanders are in complete agreement with this winning strategy.

  337. Daisy Walker says:

    Re Bailey going for Murrell for perjury…

    I’ve been wondering recently if, since nearly all of Niclas witnesses have, lied, or misinformed the inquiry – without any apparent consequence, if Alex were to disclose the whole truth under oath (minus the IDs of the alphabets) then would they really be able to prosecute him for it?

    No doubt they will find in Mr Murrells favour, but by doing so, they create a legal standard, that others can follow…

    I’m beginning to think that Mz Baillay has it in her to be more than a trougher, and could actually be a very effective parliamentarian, given the right environment.

    How times have changed.

  338. cirsium says:

    Is perjury not the terminology used in a court of law? The Scottish Parliament’s committees are not courts of law so would the appropriate word not be lying? Are there penalties for lying to a committee of the Scottish Parliament?

  339. Polly says:

    @ ElGordo

    ‘All in all it has been fairly positive over the last few days, roadmap for indy published…’

    Be More Alert!

    Or stop punting propaganda, it’s not the plebiscite election you hoped for previously.

  340. Patsy Millar says:

    @cirsium I wondered about that too.

  341. twathater says:

    I have said repeatedly on here and other blogs that IF Sturgeon REALLY wanted the votes of the wider electorate she would PARK the GRA and HCB till independence and THEN people would hold their noses and vote SNP to even stand a chance that she would go for indy

    BUT NO SHE WANTS TO CONTINUE WITH THE BLACKMAIL , VOTE SNP and get ALL the shite policies that Sturgeon wants , more corruption , more lies , more failed promises , more deviants in women’s spaces , more prosecutions against free speech , more teaching of pornography and anal sex to kiddies , more DRAG QUEENS , I have listened to people saying that we can always overturn these policies when we get independence , this amoral demented woman and her clique of woke lunatics DON’T LISTEN NOW how is that going to change in the future when WE give them EVEN MORE POWER

    VOTE FOR THEM I would prefer jailing the BASTARDS ,where has people’s self respect ,integrity , and protecting the MOST vulnerable children gone , to vote for THESE PEOPLE you will be complicit in their deviant plans

  342. rodmid says:

    Stu – Thanks for the explanation of the comments and I can see there are a lot to deal with. On the National Assembly, the website was overwhelmed at times with the number of posts & questions, and I think this may have been what has seemed like tampering. It was actually pretty good and I did come to a conclusion on one issue. Joanna Cherry killed dead the thought of a plebiscite election and she trumps all your disciples and all the other bloggers.

  343. Sarah says:

    @rodmid: I was there and I didn’t quite think Joanna said that. But admittedly I haven’t read/heard her thinking. If you can remember her explanation I would be very interested because I have a lot of time for her. Indeed I told her I was a plebiscite supporter before the assembly and she didn’t shoot me down!

  344. rodmid says:

    Sarah says.
    I was on the sessions with Joanna in the morning and the afternoon and she stated several times that we are absolutely not ready for a plebiscite election. You must have heard her if you were listening to the sessions!

  345. Sarah says:

    @ rodmid – I was in conversation 4 and didn’t dare leave it for 3 in case I got lost [as often happens!]. So if you can remember Joanna’s reasoning I would like to hear it but don’t worry if you can’t – I find it hard to remember what anybody said apart from Pete Wishart who was in my room, sadly. All he said was that a plebiscite meant a one-line manifesto which he thought was ridiculous. I thought he was stupid since a plebiscite can be include all the normal stuff as well. [And he was also incredibly rude to Professor Tim Rideout – again.]

  346. rodmid says:

    Sarah says –
    I wouldn’t worry what P Wishart says he is yes man but not in the good way.

    Joanna said that there is not enough time between now and the May election to update all the practical details of what will happen in an independent Scotland. The currency, foreign policy, financial policy, etc. She said that none of the policies were up to date and we would look completely unprofessional and get slaughtered by our enemies. This is probably a side-swipe criticism of the SNP and they probably deserve it. Anyway, for me she has killed a plebiscite dead, and it will be vote SNP 1st and ISP on the 2nd vote, then the greens etc etc.

  347. Sarah says:

    @ rodmid: thanks for that. Isn’t it extraordinary that the policies and plans aren’t in place? I would have thought the party would have got it all sorted out about 10 years ago!

    However given that the opposition are useless as well I would still go for trying to escape the Union in May. Westminster are too scary imo to risk staying under their thumb for a moment longer.

  348. robertknight says:

    DundeeDancer @12:05

    Deluded, much?

  349. DundeeDancer says:

    robertknight says @ 26 January, 2021 at 12:47 am
    – – – – – Deluded, much?

    Possible, please enlighten me with your wisdom.

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