Has the lovebombing started yet?
Posted on
January 18, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Peter Hitchens in the Daily Mail, just discovered:
God DAMN it! Who knew we were just the unwitting dupes of the Belgians all along?
Natural global citizens governed by Dads Army from Martello Towers .. run by
Of course, his argument contains an inherent contradiction. We are already run from Brussels and Frankfurt since we are in the EU. All we’re doing is changing the locus of the two cities’ control over us from London to Edinburgh.
For an otherwise intelligent man, Hitchens doesn’t half spout forth quite a lot of utter pish.
The thought of being treated like a subject province and run from hundreds of miles away is horrendous.
I have to vote Yes.
I think we know what it’s like already Peter.
Scotland is not ‘breaking away’ from anyone or anywhere – we’re simply going to live life our way according to our ideas, using our own resources including finances.
Once this is fully underway, it is likely that many of our ain folk, forced by economic matters run contrary to our own interests, may opt to return.
Good Luck to you.
Time to begin our Independence from Belgium campaign.
Wow, and the award for biggest pile of uninformed pish goes to… MR HITCHENS!
Which enemies are these that sought to “detatch” us from England? Who, over the past 300 years, has tried to break the union, other than ourselves?
As I said on the other thread, keep it coming unionist idiots. Keep it coming.
I thought we were the dupes of the North Koreans or was it the Germans…and the er French. Damnit I’m confused, where’s the e-mail the Dear Leader sent me
Is there a fool moon this week or what? I knew Hitchins was getting his thoughts beamed into his head but this is taking self obsession to the max. He really does think its all about THEM!
Michty me! Will we still be able to get the Daily Mail or will we have to wrap our chips in Double Dutch?
Oh God, I thought we were going to be throw out of the EU, now we’re going to be ruled by them. Make up your minds!
We’ll be sprouting Wings next 😉
Hitchin’s surely must include himself in his fact free claim. Should we be impressed that he has never heard of the First Wars of Scottish Independence or the Second Wars of Independence or perhaps the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745.
Sure, we might have help from France or Spain, but the primary reason for all of these conflicts was to either regain sovereignty of our own borders having had them violated by our English neighbours or to reinstate a Scottish Crown in order to replace a foreign one.
And Scots already discovered what is was like to be run as some else’s province. That was when England’s king was called Edward. Take yer pick from any of the first three in fact. And looked what happened when we came to our senses.
Hated by Peter Hitchens. My life is now complete.
Doug Daniel says:
Well, the French certainly did encourage us, but always failed to turn up when the crunches came. Not aware of any others.
What’s all this Belgian bashing all of a sudden? My Flemish ancestors arrived in Berwickshire as economic migrants as recently as the 13th Century and already I feel as Scottish as anyone.
I do love our grand Scottish diction for giving us the perfect word for this. Pish! No further comment required.
WTF!
Detach Scotland from England as if Scotland was some sort adjunct of greater England?
Now Scottish independence is some cunning EU plot to weaken England? If that were the case would the EU not be a damn sight more co-operative? It seems to me that the EU Rompuy et al have bent over backwards (and forwards) to appease Westminster. The EU is no friend of those who aspire to Scottish independence.
Sorry for going a bit off topic sort of.
Someone posted a link to the Motherwell times in the comments the other day. It was regarding a former Labour Motherwell councilor declaring that he was voting Yes. The article was complete with a photograph of former councilor holding up a Yes banner. The icing and cherry on the cake is that the aforesaid former councilor is the brother in law of (Lab) MSP and liar Michael McMahon.
Just to let you know that the article is now front page of the Bellshill Speaker complete with photo. Titter ye not! There is a by-election in Motherwell North on the 23rd. of January.
Sorry I have tried without luck to find the original link same goes for article on line.:-(
Its a pity Hitchens knows zip about the history of the UK Union otherwise he would not spout so much mush passing it off as fact.
The EU will be no more or less annoying than it is at present and at least we will be representing our own best interests at Brussels and not second hand as we do with the CAP, Fisheries and much else at present.
The story’s not on the page you linked to (unless I’ve gone blind from excessive cybernatting)
It’s a pity Peter Hitchens doesn’t know any history, or it would quite obvious that England spent centuries trying to detach Scotland from its continental friends (usually those dastardly Frogs)
Which brings me to reflect that the only nation to have shed blood on Scottish soil in defence of Scottish independence are those same derided French (1547). Mind you, we did the same for them (1421 eg)
Are Scots the eternal subjects of greater masters? Hitchen’s seems to view us as some kind of European low life.
The whole ‘it’s an EU plot’ is one of my favourites.It tells you a lot about the person using it.
“The story’s not on the page you linked to”
It’s below the pictures of Robbie Balls and Ed Williams …
This argument always pisses me off. Brussels will take all of our income and give us a block grant in return. Brussels will take all of our constitutional powers and devolve some minor ones. No Country on earth would stand for this kind of thing, it’s undemocratic and insane. Oh, wait!
Given that its Hitchens, I’m actually a wee bit disappointed it wasn’t more abusive.
It’s astonishing how stupid some intellectuals are.
The Man in the Jar says:
Someone posted a link to the Motherwell times in the comments the other day
This one? link to motherwelltimes.co.uk
@Doug Daniels
@HandandShrimp
Ironically the Spanish chipped in, in 1719 at the Battle of Glen Shiel.
It isnt the Spanish that are the problem it is the right wing “Popular Party” (Aye right!) that have been colluding with the tories to usurp Scotlands democratic rights. I think there is a word for behaviour like that.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@dinnatouch
The very one. Thanks very much!
Love-bombing?
Yes – I saw this billet doux on Damian Thompson’s blog for the Telegraph –
gentlemenabedinengland ItinerantView • 9 hours ago
What do the white Jocks think of all this?
Their appeal to the (SE) heart has never been put so succinctly.
It’s SCAREBOMBING
What an idiot. The “nobody” who knows nothing of our history is Hichens himself! “Detaching” as though we are some cast-away limb. This has to be the worst 7 lines I have ever read in my life.
Ah damn, just realised I didn’t hit return twice in that last comment. I await my punishment 🙁
“Ah damn, just realised I didn’t hit return twice in that last comment. I await my punishment :(“
[stern look]
But what if Hitchens is on to something? Could the independence referendum be a cunning plan by the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to replace their failing 19th Century concoction of a monarchy with a reinvigorated Greater Belgium consisting of the provinces of Flanders, Wallonia and Scotland? And what game is Van Rompuy really playing?
The most revealing phrase that jumps out at me is “our continental enemies” – hostile, backward-looking and unforgiving. That’s a mindset I’m voting YES to get away from.
There was a “marriage” of Scotland and England in 1707 after the bribing of some Scottish “NOBLEMEN” The citizens were then telt they were Wed to England, we weren’t asked. You could say it was an arranged marriage.
We tried our best over the years but our unfaithful and selfish “partner” just did their own thing with no thought for their supposed partner.
Now in this enlightened period, we the Scottish people are seriously considering divorce on the grounds of incompatibility and irretrievable breakdown in the partnership. We have instructed our lawyers to get a fair settlement and would prefer to remain friends on agreeable terms.
Hope you will understand and cooperate in ending this long running charade.
I don’t read this news information sheet,does it normally mention Scotland in this column,and if anyone knows,does it ever say anything good about us when it does? Anyway,we’d be treated better as an individual EU member by my reckoning.Aye,empires crumble and fall,they always do in the end, whether they be Ottoman,Roman,Russian,French,German or just plain old British.
Aw, the poor Broken Compass has lost his way 🙁
link to tinyurl.com
He appears to have written masses of pish!
I Wonder if Mr Hitchens knows we have a French MSP in our midst who is doing his best to detach us?
link to snp.org
O/T Scottish affair committee, started 18.00 parly
Rev, I’ve always said you should add Hitchens to your ‘zany comedy relief’ section.
I thought somebody or other from Belgium was opposed to Scottish Independence, saying we would need to apply to get back into the EU, so Independence would be a bad idea?
They need to keep their stories straight and consistent.
But looking at this kind of article from Hitchins and the other newspapers, and Westminster Government papers and politicians, I’ve got to say to any voters these people really think they own Scotland and they control the agenda.
Scotland is being discussed as if we aren’t right there, ‘in the same room’.
I have come across this kind of drivel before, but from Ukipper supporters. Everything has to be down to some dastardly plot by Brussels to undermine the UK. By this logic we are currently a subject provine of subject province of Brussels.
I remember in the run up to the devolution referendum in 1997, Hitchens was on a panel discussion show and he spouted pro BritNat garbage from beginning to end, and his way of ‘persuading’ us not to vote for the reconvening of our parliament was to remind us how well Scotland did out the Empire (not union). Scotland would have degenerated into a third-world backwater if it wasn’t allowed to be part of the empire was his message.
This is where the ‘ungrateful jocks’ mantra comes from, the idea that anything that was achieved by Scots and Scotland in the last 300 years was because we were *allowed* to do so. Hitchens doesn’t recognise Scottish history prior to 1707, it simply doesn’t exist in his mind, to him British history started with Alfred the Great and any Scottish intervention over the past 1200 years is merely ignored. Scotland only exists to serve London and those Scots (Fraser Nelsons and Andrew Neils of this world) who make their way to London to be accepted by these bellowing twits like Hitchens must display how much they will be ("Tractor" - Ed)ous towards there own kind before being taken out to lunch at the Savoy.
Hitchens would wholeheartedly agree that Scotland was extinguished in 1707 as he believes it only existed as a useless rough piece of land inhabited by ungodly tribes beforehand. The British Empire was an extension of England which brought enlightenment to the world and the Scots were allowed, through generosity and kindness of these enlightened English, to enjoy the riches of empire. As long as the Scots served, remained loyal to the throne and the Establishment, then the Scots would be accepted into New Jerusalem.
Of course Hitchens refuses to believe in anything otherwise. Like most of his ilk his head has been buried in the sand for decades. His mighty New Jerusalem is dust but his rantings about Scotland, Gibraltar or the Falklands lends him to maintain the illusion of empire. As each year passes, as increasingly more strips of England is bought and sold by the Chinese and Saudis, there will be a place forever called England, It is Hitchens’ office at the Daily Mail with his little union flag and sneering gestures, he has to do it because Dave, Gideon and Boris really don’t give a shit.
The land of the chip, Tintin and the Smurfs versus the land of roast beef, Del Boy and Westminster.
Very dificult, but Yes, my mind’s made up. A Yorkshire pudding supper, please.
Hey haud on a minute,the World jist run past ma bus stop, ah fuck it, jist drap me aff at the next, Interplanitery boozer, naw no that fucking wan,Peter Hitchin drink,s in that wan, drap me aff at the corner I,ll walk.
Given the choice I think I’d rather be run from Brussels than London.
Christ the penny is beginning to drop down south to what is actually going to happen down south , the slightly more informed are frothing at the mouth now ha bloody ha , hitchins ,the mail sheesh .
If Scotland breaks away from ENGLAND ! what about our celtic cousins oh that’s right the UK is England – sorry 🙁
It is. It’s that very peculiar public school kind of lovebombing. These pampered celebs think we’re they’re fags!
Which going by the widespread – so to speak – ProudScotch bendoverism of the TartanBTs, is probably a perfectly justifiable attitude in their puggled wee eyes.
I always thought that Hercule Poirot looked a bit dodgy.
Pish.
The British Establishment and Better Together remind me of a famous movie scene where BT have crashed to the floor dying and the Establishment are asked to help to which they reply “Fuck Him”. Think it was The Dukes in Trading Places
It has never failed to astound me how these elites’ with their private education, conditioned to be masters of the universe, free pass into the so called ‘higher echelons’ of society, have not between them ever had an original thought of their own.
They don’t see how they are the product of their own system of thinking. That’s why they need a ‘separate’ education system, to produce that insular, special, unquestioning air of arrogance.
That’s how they create and keep up the illusion of hierarchy. Keeping ordinary people in place by being the keepers of received wisdom. From that established position they can propagate their dogma from one generation to the next.
They can be writers/journalists or government ministers, interchangeable really but it’s all the same message, because it’s all the same culture that it stems from, that is disseminated.
They’ve missed a trick or two along the way. They’ve not understood that the education of the intellect is but one strand of intelligence. Those of us who are free from the limitations of privilege are bound to realise…eventually, that it’s an illusion to believe that intellectual competence is an indication of merit and substance, never mind fall for the trap of believing it means anything about oneself.
To that end…Hitchens is really just a talking head, bobbing in the sea of crap that is the essential ingredient of most of the anti independence rhetoric that spills forth…daily, from the msm.
bendoverism 🙂
Now I realise that I should have got the phone numbers of those Flemish chaps at the Sept Edinburgh Indy March, we could have joined forces to break away from Brussels rule!!!
Hitchens is a first class arsehole who couldn’t even attempt to lace his brother’s boots.
I’m pretty sick and tired of the right wing media wheeling out this utterly contemptible fool, with increasing regularity, to spout his vile hatred of anything that doesn’t chime with English conservatism. His bigotry and small mindedness is concealed only by a thin veneer of flowery language and an Oxbridge accent that lends his verbal vomit a phony element of erudite authority.
He took part in an interview fairly recently with Russel Brand about alcoholism and drug abuse, two conditions that go hand in hand with the abject poverty that is prevalent in many working class areas in Scotland. His view was that these ‘conditions’ (as he would not submit to addiction being an illness) were entirely avoidable. How quaint that yet again we have an English middle class conservative implying that the blame for poverty lies with the poor.
Christopher was an intellectual giant, and joy to listen to, even if I didn’t agree with all of his politics. This guy is the archetypal Bradshaw sibling, living in his brother’s shadow and never being able to live up to expectations. He’s a sad wee attention seeking prick who’s found that being controversial is the only thing in his ‘intellectual’ arsenal that’ll get him column inches.
Graeme Purves at 5.22 – Brilliant – I enjoyed that!
Of course. Silly us. It’s all about England. Doh!
I thought the British Government declared war on Germany in 1914 because it refused to leave Belgium which it had just invaded?
How does the British standing up for the rights of small nations, such as Belgium in 1914, translate into them being a threat for centuries to Britain in 2014?
Maybe we should send the “sacred soil” back to Belgium as a protest given we were fighting on the wrong side in WWI, or something.
WW1 ‘sacred soil’ arrives in London
link to bbc.co.uk
The louder and stupider the outbursts from Project Fear become the more I am convinced that their obvious desperation to keep Scotland in the union confirms that they are hiding Scotland’s true worth to Westminster and that this must be the best reason yet for Scotland to leave the union.
Just watching Davidson on the ‘Separation’ committee.
He’s trying to force himself onto the Scottish negotiation team after Yes… and the ‘experts’ are telling him it doesn’t work like that, the FM picks the team, not Davidson.
Comical.
On a serious note, the unionist MPs are starting to realise they have some hard choices to make after September. Do they throw their hats in with the SG negotiating team, or do they run on a platform for the 2016 election of reversing the Yes result.
And whose side would the Scottish MPs (and cabinet ministers) be on during the negotiations…?
This is the same Peter Hitchens who claimed that sex education was tantamount to “state grooming” and “as bad as paedophiles.”
The same Peter Hitchens who claimed that showing tolerance to homosexuals would lead to tyranny.
The same Peter Hitchens who claimed that the rape of sexually active women and rape by a sexual partner was not actually a crime, and that rape victims should be denied anonymity.
The same Peter Hitchens who claimed ADHD and Dyslexia were inventions of a “cult,” and continues to believe the MMR-Autism hysteria despite Wakefield being thoroughly and comprehensively disproven.
The same Peter Hitchens who claims that poverty doesn’t actually exist in the UK, instead being a left-wing invention.
Dunning-Kruger into overdrive with this man.
Now speaking of Lovebombing, Here’s a thought:
A few months ago Nicola mentioned that women were moving towards yes on the SNP’s internal polling system.
Unionists had a right moan about this, supported by their MSM lackeys, but none of them denied this.
Now we have all noticed and wondering why BT have been getting so desperate recently, with even Alistair Darling admitting that BT’s internal poll show it’s closer than many people think.
Just Today Mags Curran is out and about Glasgow screaming her face off about how women shouldn’t let the Yes side con them. so on and so on.
What with all of this and the promise of some serious ‘Love-bombing’ from soap actors etc, is this ‘love-bombing’ intended for our female voters?
We would all agree that if women began to shift towards yes in anything near the numbers that men do, independence would be in the bag, so is all of this panic and bile as well as promises of future love-bombs happening, because a lot more Scottish women are now opting for ‘Yes’?
Was the White Paper the straw that broke the camels back?
Interesting times. 😉
hahaha…Brilliant.
“ProudScotch bendoverism of the TartanBTs”
Prof now telling Pamela Nash that there is no way the EU would force Scotland into the Euro – she just doesn’t get it – the phrase ‘low information MP’ springs to mind.
I presume we’re at the treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen stage of Operation Lovebomb.
An old friend of mine, (not known to be a nationalist), served with the British Army in Kenya. He once said to me that the English were the most nationalistic race on earth. The Hitchin’s of this world often make me think my old pal was spot on.
We sir are going to have a written constitution which will affirm that the sovereignty will be with the Scottish people it’s a concept you will be only be able to dream of. Good luck in your rUK out of Europe, out of favour with USA boo hoo hitchins
@Ivan
I sincerely hope and trust that the SG has already got a provisional team together for its negotiation squad. I also sincerely hope and trust that very few of our current crop of politicians figure on it. We need a hard-nosed set of right bastards – not a squirming bunch of soundbite merchants.
Personally, I’d have our team picked by popular vote, with yourself & G M-K up there at the top.
I can almost feel sorry for him. He is out and out British, most likely brought up with tales of the great British Empire and how it spanned the globe.
The Empire is almost gone now and on the 19 September this year the final nail will be driven into its coffin. It is always sad to see the end of something you have loved but for me it will be one of the happiest days of my life.
So hard lines old chap, keep your chin up.
P.S. I realise I’ve now categorised you as a top hard-nosed bastard 🙂 I assure you, it was sincerely meant. Or maybe… Oh, I give up.
Grahme Purves says
“But what if Hitchens is on to something?”
Do you want me to get your coat?
Must be terrible being Peter Hitchens knowing that all the intelligence and talent went to the older sibling…
When I click the link, its to a piece about the failed war on drugs by Peter Hitchens (btw I agree with much of it… link to youtube.com)
Dunno what everyone else is referring to?
Only one thing worse than a cybernat; a Eurocybernat.
Eurocybernat = ‘foreign / non-British supporter of Scottish independence originating from a sovereign, independent European Union country.
I used to have union jack boxers, vote Tory and sing God Save the Queen each night before bed. Then [French] Mrs SS – an EU sleeper agent Eurocybernat – poisoned my mind with all that Liberté, égalité, fraternité stuff. What’s worse, is she gets a vote too!
Kininvie says
“P.S. I realise I’ve now categorised you as a top hard-nosed bastard 🙂 I assure you, it was sincerely meant. Or maybe… Oh, I give up.”
Sorry I couldn’t help but repeat it,
when in a hole stop digging.
ss says
” What’s worse, is she gets a vote too!”
Mon deu!
…oops sorry, spotted the little tirade hiden at the bottom. Oh dear, how to write a good piece of journalism on the failed drug war… and then to completely ruin the vibe by writing one line of complete cr@p.
does anyone have any idea how much extra iain pug davidson recieves for being chairman of the anti-scottish affairs commitee?
Joe Kane, I think you will find that Belgium was an excuse to go to war, the real reason was to stop the third reading of the 1914 Scottish Home Rule Bill!!!!
kininvie
Drop the shovel now, stop digging!
@ kininvie
Take that as a complement, thanks.
Hittchins line on Europe taking Scotland under their control to weaken England , was spouted on the 9pm talk show on BBC radio Scotland last week. the caller said the EU was an invention of Hitler and our Independence was explained as Germany weakening the UK to diminish England. must be a slant going the rounds in the Better Together handbook.
@krackerman
But of course the other Hitchens supported the illegal invasion of Iraq, lost his credibility there.
Only one extremist worse than a cybernat (aka Cabernat) or a Eurocybernat, and that’s a cybercat. “Neuter the lot of them!”, scream the house-trained DM commenteers in thread.
Trigger alert, contains actual image of cybercat attack on a DM photographer –
Attack of the ‘feline ninja!’: Woman mauled by her moggie and had to fight him off with a vacuum
link to dailymail.co.uk
Apologies O/T and not known if this has been previously discussed but was seriously depressed having listened to these three numpties giving evidence to the Westminster Scottish Affairs Committee.
link to parliamentlive.tv
@david
Circa £15000
link to totalpolitics.com
K1
Private education does not equate to intellect nor lead automatically to any form of intellectualism. It merely infers elitism and the mindset of superiority and the right to put others down. That being said, in itself private education is not necessarily a bad concept. It is the implementation of class snobbery and other unnecessary differentiators that bring out the negative bad aspects which most of Scots and Scotland, I believe, have an issue with.
A man’s a man for a ‘that!
If only the no campaign realised that insults and lies only strengthens our resolve and converts more to the Yes camp daily. I’ve yet to hear anyone from down south say, ” we’ll,we know you are capable of being a successful independent country,and the statistics prove you can easily afford it,but we would like you to stay because we like you and will miss you if you go”.
@Patrick Roden
‘What with all of this and the promise of some serious “Love-bombing” from soap actors etc, is this “love-bombing” intended for our female voters?’
Is there a soap actor with an intact reputation for them to call on?
ComRes poll tonight showing UKIP topping favourability ratings over Con, Lab & LD, Farage 2nd to Cameron in favourability and up to 19% on VI.
link to tinyurl.com
WOW! I never knew that! And here was me reading the wrong type of Scottish History. From what I read, I was under the impression that the likes of Edward the 1st and Henry VIII wanted to ‘conquer’ Scotland. Seems I was wrong! Seems they were ‘love bombing’ us!
What I don’t quite get is …if the Europeans were trying to stop us from creating a Union, then when did they invade, since the last invasion was apparently 1066 (we have to discount the Glorious Revolution in 1688 when William of Orange landed with 30’000 Dutch troops …but of course, that doesn’t count, since that was friendly invasion, you know, and England also likes to keep up that myth that she hasn’t been invaded for nigh on a 1000 years since those lovely blue-blooded overlords called the Normans!).
But they must have invaded if they were keeping Blighty torn in two. I had no idea that the Germans were encamped around Berwick, the Russian were hiding out at the Solway Firth, or the Spanish armada was manoeuvring around the Isles, or that the Italians had rebuilt Hadrians Wall! Who knew it, eh!!! Tricky customers those European Chappies!
Or …it could just be a case that Peter Hitchins is talking out of the hole in his bottom…
Tell you one thing! My Open Uni Degree course in Scottish History is going to be very interesting!
Wait till I write essays on how Scotland and England were being kept apart by dodgy Britosceptics from Brussels!
I’ll either get a Doctorate in record time for the most interesting studies ever …or I think I may fail in the most spectacular fashion ever…
wow, iain davidson rewarded with fifteen thousands pounds a year to attempt to mislead scotland, what a system.
Hitchens cannot be trusted. His employment at The Daily Heil is reason enough, but he has admitted in interviews (the links are easy to find, both Youtube and print) that in his youth he was an extreme left Jewish Communist, who terrorised working-class and poor communities in England. He is a vile man.
Why on earth would Scotland want Davidson on the negotiation team if there is a Yes vote? That would be akin to dropping a scorpion down the front of your Y-fronts.
i.e not desperately sensible.
@Albalha – He did indeed – he was never shy about opposing dictators, tyrants and murderous regimes, perhaps to be point of being blindingly naïve over the outcome of the Iraqi invasion. He was very consistent on this it has to be said. Whether it was Saddam Hussein or God that was the target of his pen – his view was the same..
Watching the Westminster Committee on Scottish Independence tonight, one the biggest hole in the proceedings was the administrator approach to the discussion.
Necessary at one level, but they ignore that a Yes vote for Independence would be by people and not simply Governments.
They framed the whole negotiations discussion on possible antipathy between the SG and the Westminster Government.
The vote would be the will of the people of Scotland and not some decision by civil servants and politicians.
That was lost in the deliberations, probably a consequence of having only Labour, ConLibDems on the committee.
What a shame the clever, learned and insightful Hitchens brother is no longer with us. And all we are left with is this…
@ Graham Purves – Funny you should mention Wallonia. Just last week I opened up my FB to a friend request from that region of Belgium and have since been bombarded with even more requests wanting to know more about our campaign.
Rushed off to WikiP and the history of Wallonia and its long gone industrial base of coal and steel piqued my interest.
The fine French speaking friends on FB are aware of the White Paper, the ‘L’Independance Ecossais’ and are now talking about attending our rally later this year. I may even be called an honorary Walloon. Not a complimentary term in Scotland methinks but smiles all around. 🙂
Ironically, I suspect that if Westminster had said that this was indeed Scotland’s debate and had kept right out of it, they might actually have had a better chance. As it is they’re making us draw together.
See all this racist bile in the press, and Darling and the rest of BT spreading their usual project fear around. Of course aided and abetted by Haig and other Westminster drones coming to tell us that if we vote Yes Scotland will be the new Somalia. Motherwell will make Mogadishu look like Beverly Hills etc. All this added together is a recipe for trouble.
Some of the core No vote is accepting this pish as gospel and that we are all indeed doomed. This core vote is shitting itself at the prospect of a Yes vote and I think that I am seeing it manifesting as anger.
Some of these core No voters that I know would argue but it could be described as a bit of banter when things got a bit heated. I notice a change in these folk, they are getting frightened. As time goes on and they are realising that independence is for real and there is every chance that it will happen they are getting more and more scared. That fear is turning to anger. It is a normal human reaction if something frightens you to get angry.
With months to go before the referendum and “The Union” constantly upping the pressure something will give and it won’t be pretty.
Racist bile like this is just putting out the fire with gasoline.
O/T
Well well I had to buy the Morning Star today, just because you know I sometimes feel sorry for them, and the headline today was regards East Coast railways being in the pipeline for privatisation by westminster rich boys. Anyway, got to page 3, er, home news, and there are two pieces, one of which is news to me, on the bedroom tax, and the lovely Jackie Bailey, ‘Labour welfare spokesWOMAN(!) who has ‘proposed a statutory no eviction guarantee for tenants’ in Scotland and she is quoted as saying, ‘we have fought for this protection and hope the SNP will back the Bill through the parliamentary process’. ‘The bill was apparently ‘only able to go forward with a last minute signature from backbench SNP MSP, John Wilson’.
The other piece on same page, ‘Scotland’. ‘YES’ costs £3.8 bn, Cabinet pair claim’. The pair?
Willy Hague and D Alexander. It takes the ‘government paper’ as its source for telling readers that
the ‘most optimistic case Scotland would be £1.9 bn worse off as an independent member of the EU, over the period 2014 to 2020, but that could rise to £3.8 bn, ‘under less optimistic scenarios’. Ugh? I thought that Scotland’s Independence would start in 2016.
These folk do talk out their bottoms don’t they, so does the Star!
I never got that far with him today, after a paragraph that was enough for me. More BT ranting and raving about how we have been looked after and cared for, where our true place is blah blah blah
As the late Eric Morecambe would have said,”This boy is a fool”.
Wish we had the quality of life the Belgians have. Just back from Antwerp. They cook the best food while London cooks the books.
If the UK had even a half decent balanced economy approaching that of Germany or Norway, UK establishment propagandists like Hitchens might have a point but these chancers must have at least some inkling that Scotland knows it can do so much better running its own economy.
Even Flipper Darling grinds on about UK “restructuring and rebalancing” once he’s back in power but he never says what this means naturally.
Meanwhile a new head of HS2 London to Birmingham railway, gets a three quarters of a million quid per year pay check.
The problem for the British State is creating a credible pro-indy extreme faction – offensive, anonymous tweets or BTL comments hardly constitute a clear and present danger to The Realm.
If we do have Scots who are storing up stocks of Semtex and keeping their Kalashnikovs well-oiled, why haven’t any of them turned up here?
Okay, Rev has barred a few commenters, even in the time I’ve been a regular, but I’m pretty sure none of them were red-carded for threatening to blow up Boris Johnson or suchlike.
TBH, I’m amazed that some mysterious proto-SRA hasn’t made any noises. As and when we hear about the emergence of such a group, we’ll know that any pretence at diplomacy, such as the ‘Edinburgh Agreement’, has finally been discarded by the British State.
Hitchens is a professional provocateur – that’s how he makes his living, and he can no more be blamed for spouting the shite he does than a dog can be expected to control the volume of its bark.
But Hitchens has peers who operate in other ways – we can be sure some of them will be itching to test their methods against the existential threat posed by us evil cybernats.
O/T but good to see. WoS now being returned as a hit on searching for news at newsnow.co.uk More recognition and exposure can only be a good thing.
link to archive.is
Something that I “don’t get” regarding Europe and independence. Especially the viewpoint that independence is just swapping Westminster for Brussels so whats the point. I have noticed this view expressed BTL numerous times but also in the MSM in general.
Is there a tiny shred of evidence that this could be even remotely correct. It is my understanding that an independent Scotland would more than double its number of MEPs. Giving Scotland some more control of Brussels is desirable isn’t it?
The Man in the Jar
Hopefully that will be a question for future debate. The way I see it though, is that independence will remove a wasteful and unnecessary tier of government (Westminster). I can’t see a persuasive argument to convince me that more direct representation in the EU could worsen Scotland’s prospects in any way.
@ man in the jar.
The whole swapping UK rule for EU rule is such utter and complete nonsense.
On 2 levels : 1 regarding sovereignty, an Independent country decides what international organisations it wants to join and which it doesn’t, and what treaties it wants to sign up to. When you are sovereign you always have the right to leave international organisations if you want to.
And secondly,on the financial level. At the moment we send about 93% of our income to Westminster and they decide how much to give us back.
EU contributions are about 1% of income.
So one is like having your salary paid directly to your neighbours bank account and then having to go and ask him for some of it back so you can pay your mortgage and buy food. The other scenario is like deciding to pay subscription to your local gym. Its just not in the same league.
For Twitterphobes –
Rev referred to this –
link to t.co
A Bateman blast. Please show it to the feartie in your life (we all know at least one, eh?) – if we end up losing this thing, they’ll be superglued centre-stage with a muckle spotlight on them for the rest of their days.
Archie not Erchie
Re Wallonia, home of some of the finest, food, beer (Chimay and others) and Motorcycle road racing (Mettet, Chimay, Gedinne and Spa and Jehonville circuits.
Also a very good Celtic Museum not far from Jehonville.
Wallonia is well worth a visit, Ryanair fly to Charleroi.
It’s all quite clear to me now.
The Masters of the Universe are concerned that Scottish independence will destroy the Protocols of Sion and bring about the downfall of the Illuminati. We’re a doomed I tell ye. Only the mighty British state can save us. Damn you Alex.Salmond for leading us astray. BEWARE the Empire of the Europeans.
Whats really going on with England’s far right BetterTogether ConDem’s anyway? Vince Cable says UK not out of EU but Osborne says UK is out of EU if EU don’t toe their UK neocon line. So vote no in Sept for the UK, then ConDem UK will pull Scotland out of the EU. One more Westminster giant farce to get caught up in.
link to theguardian.com
The EU is often talked about as if it is a physical being fixed in stone and impervious to time. It isn’t and neither is Scotland. The circumstances and prospects of both will have changed by the time an iScotland would be in a position to make any decision regarding EU membership. We will need to get our institutions sorted and independence working first, IMO.
Oh God, been on the Daily Telegraph ‘debating’ with some strange mo’fo’s.
On here is like a nice warm bath of sanity in comparison.
Unless there is anyone here who believes the flooding in England is due to David Cameron wanting to legislate for gay marriage?
Or who is a holocaust denier?
Thought not, thank fuck.
A wee bit OT, but Question Time is from Dundee next Thursday.
To apply to be in the audience go to
link to bbc.co.uk
A GROUP of pro-independence business leaders have warned a No vote in the referendum would put Scotland’s EU place at risk.
link to archive.is
A pedantic point: Peter Hitchens actually writes for the Mail on Sunday, rather than the Daily Mail. I mention this distinction not because it matters much, but purely because the wee fellow seems to go in a bit of a huff when people say he writes for the Daily Mail.
If you’ve a full glass to hand, and fifteen minutes to peacefully enjoy it, please watch this. I look forward to you joining us (the SSP) shortly thereafter –
link to youtube.com
I’m off to watch part 2.
Nicht-nicht!
Mr Salmond sends Lamont a billet-doux it’s not over till the fat lady sings! rsvp.
archive.is/b3SGE
Just back in from a party and I am pleasantly surprised that without pontificating too much that the majority of people I spoke to have decided to vote Yes. Heads up people this is here for us to win let’s not take our eye’s off the prize !
Mr Salmond sends Lamont a billet-doux it’s not over till the fat lady sings! rsvp. (hope link works)
link to archive.is
Here’s part 2.
It’s awesome stuff.
Want to know where people such as Hitchens get their attitudes? It’s all here. Thing is – no real aristocrat would ever be so vulgar as to expose themselves in the way he has – it would be simply too beastly dahling!
@ian
Correct. We aristocrats (well, bunnet lairds to be precise) know that it’s just not done to wash one’s dirty linen in public. It just allows those grubby socialists to gain the moral high ground, and we can’t be having that. 🙂
Back on topic, I’m extremely sorry to see Kevin McKenna apparently joining the ranks of the Scottish police state myth.
link to theguardian.com
I’m not carrying a flag for Police Scotland here: our new policing set-up is not perfect. But this is spin beyond spin.
Fuck it, here’s part 3.
I really did want to be in the old scratcher by now, but have to stay up now, see the ‘end’.
Will Capitalism turn out to be the surprise winner?
Where is the love-bombing darlings? Getting very bored waiting.
@kininvie –
‘Grubby socialists’?
Okay, so it’s like that, eh?
I’ll have you know that I change my thermals every week, and pay my weans, in fruit and (relatively)fresh vegetables, to wash them, monthly, at our local burn.
I even know a comrade who owns upwards of TWENTY pairs of socks.
So there!
Papadocx, it was not an arranged marriage. It was a forced marriage.
I hope independent Scotland’s written constitution will make forced marriages illegal.
Scotland must never be forced into a marriage again.
Interesting article in Newsnet Scotland today. The University of the West of Scotland has carried out a study that appears to show a 3:2 bias in favour of the No campaign on Reporting Scotland and STV News between September 2012 and September 2013.
Anyway, I’ve sent a complaint to the BBC and STV, will be interesting to see how they respond.
OT but it looks like wee Ruthie might be in a spot of bother.
She used information from a government document that hasn’t even been released, to attack Alex Salmond at the last QT session!
Does this woman’s naivety and stupidity have no end.
Maybe evidence from the enquiry will uncover Westminster/GCHQ involvement in this latest Scottish Government Leak?
That would certainly put the cat among the pigeons!
Does Hitchens have delusions of grandeur and think he is Idi Amin?
Cutting out the middleman’s 20%, makes sense. The illegal wars and banking fraud, the EU has more sense.
The Tories want to leave the EU.
Crime is down and people are safer in Scotland under SNP, according to the statistics. Knife crime, especially is down. ‘Corroboration’ mean no justice, especially for women, who commit less crime. Crime is a gender issue. Labour/Unionist miscarriages of justice. – Megrahi (£Billions) Sheridan (show trial £5Million) Luke? etc Miscarriages of Justice.
Workers are being killed in Scotland because the UK gov is not enforcing Health & Safety Law.
O/T
@kinivie, Andrew if you see this could you get in touch with me please?
We met when I delivered the Aye Right leaflets to you in the Livingston car park.
I’ll stick my email over in quarantine.
The Cuthberts in The Herald on wasted oil revenues
link to archive.is
And comment from T Gordon
link to archive.is
Westminster was the unlawful biddy-in, with the foot in the door, the key in the lock. Once the claws were in, the tenticles are extremely hard to pull out. Just a few more shoves might work. All hands on deck, all sodders to the anvil. Man the barricades. The French/Russian had a Revolution to put more bread on the table. Westminster has a feast of Camerons/Cleggs and Cables, lording it up, trying for a seat the top table.
“O/T but good to see. WoS now being returned as a hit on searching for news at newsnow.co.uk More recognition and exposure can only be a good thing.
link to archive.is“
Also newsnet. I take full credit for that.
And so another week start,s, & what pureile drivel, do we have for disgussion this week,& worthy no less, of BBC air time. Cambrigeshire county council have stopped useing ,,,,
in street name,s.The english language under attack,for the lack of, ,,,,. How the people,s attention can be diverted,by the MSM,from important issue,s all because of ,,,,.Its awe the fault, of the Cybernats they type that fast they dont use ,,,,.As a gentalman from Mancherster uni said this morning, ,,,,is,ent used vocaly.Am hoarce wie awe this typeing, my oppoligies for the use of awe they ,,,, , ma spelling,s leting me doon ah canna spell the feking word , .
thats the use of the , comma ah canna spell,the apohtrophe.
I have been surprised when talking about the referendum to some non political friends and family members to hear their reason for intending to vote no was their dislike of Alex Salmond. Reminded them it wasn’t a popularity contest it was a referendum about the future of Scotland and their kids. That was the end of the political discussion, to intellectual for them, I think.
It was only reading the NNS article today that the penny dropped, the main line of attack by the no camp is to demonise Salmond, cut off the head of the snake. The report by the UOWS highlights the number of personal attacks on Alex. However when you think of all the shit that is thrown at the FM in the Scottish parliament every PMQs by Lamont, Ruth Davidson and their minions + SLAB + BT the main focus of their diatribe and venom is WEE ECK. What is highlighted as unbalanced personal attacks in the report becomes a sunama of personal attacks when you add in all the others as stated above.
The total thrust of the no campaign is personalising this referendum as a vote on Alex Salmonds popularity (probably one of the ablest and most respected politicians in Europe as recognised by the media, press and other politians). Every time Cameron mentions the referendum he also has a kick at Alex. My respect for Alex taking all this on his shoulders and still positively smiling on has grown immeasurably. RESPECT TO YOU ALEX!
To the non politicos in Scotland it is being dumbed down and sold as an X-factor game.
@papadocx.
Not only has Ruthie been targeting AS, it seems the cybernats are getting it too.
Ruthie’s been a naughty boy…sorry girl.
link to twitter.com
@ chris at 5.44,do you know any place where I can cet my oxygen tak filled. lol
Darling being loved bombed again by the Tories.
link to archive.is
New Tory chairman Richard the Rottweiler savages Better Together leader Darling
The new chairman of the Scottish Conservatives made scathing remarks about Better Together leader Alistair Darling at a private political event, according to insiders.
Can’t be long now before he’s replaced as head of BT by a Tory.
Re: Ruth tweet. Cabernats doesn’t seem a typo all. It’s caber. Just more Scottish cringe.
Proposals for state school privatisation in England.
link to bbc.co.uk
Now that higher education is effectively privatised with tuition fees, it was only a matter of time before primary and secondary eduction became targets.
Same pattern; first make ‘the wealthy’ pay fees stating that ‘they can afford it’. Then, over time, reduce the income level where fees kick in to encompass more and more families. At some point, these families exceed those getting fees paid by the state. They then argue ‘why should we pay for others to get it for free’. And there you go.
Ruthie doesn’t like cabernats. Is this a euphemism for nationalists with lots of wood? And she said that she doesn’t get it. Old news Ruthie!
@ SS
I note from your link that Paul Hutcheon has been reading WoS and taking note of the Rev’s strictures. Two carriage returns! nNt one and most definitely not three, TWO carriage returns! 🙂
nNt = Not
@ Alexicon
I like Gillian Coyle’s ‘Britbrat’ euphemism for the BT’s
“Proposals for state school privatisation in England.”
“Radical” seems to mean effectively going back to Victorian times. Surely it would be more radical to strive to have excellent local schools and thereby have quality state education across the nation, e.g. the Finnish model.
“Radical” seems to mean effectively going back to Victorian times.
That would be the plan, yes. ‘Free Schools’ were the first step; now things are moving to the next.
—-
Anyway, I wonder what the odds are for Alistair ‘fall guy’ Darling to be replaced by a Tory soon?
I mean that’s the knives out again…more leaks from inside the Tory party attacking him…him mumbling about standing down before the next UKGE…his increasingly deranged manner…
Oh my heart bleeds, poor old Empire eh? Being systematically dismantled by Johnny Foreigner, unthinkingly diminishing the ridiculous delusions of grandeur still held by the privileged UK state.
Papadocx at 8.05
Everytime anybody has a goat Alex Salmond I say to them “Have you ever seen Alex Salmond insult or make a personal attack on anybody” and that quickly shuts them up
That of course should read “go at”.
Listened to GMS and although Gerry Hassan was bit all over the place to begin I thought it settled down into a sensible conversation. I will be interested to see the results of the before and after poll of the debate held down at Ayr between the two Blairs. It seemed to me that Ken hinted that after hearing the arguments there was a fair swing but he didn’t say who won.
I heard on the radio the other day that there was another debate in Glasgow on asylum seekers and both the Blairs again were involved. This time after the debate there didn’t seem to be any movement but, perhaps not surprisingly given the UK position on asylum, Yes was already on 54% and No about 24% from the start.
It seems to me that whenever we have an audience and an opportunity to argue the case fairly and squarely against the No case, Yes wins hands down. If we had the media on our side we would be home and dry by now.
My problem with all of this is not that its news in particular, (we all know this goes on and these views have been held for years), its the fact that such views are now being published regularly and further asserted and supported by the NO campaign headquarters North and South of the Border.
Further that Scottish journalists working in such environments live with this, read this, know its getting published for Scots to eventually come across (read) and stand by and do nothing. In effect supporting such action by default.
Analogy:
You know the kind of thing: the kind of wife beating that goes on, thats nothing too serious, the derogaTORY remarks, the veiled treats, then the threats, then the marks… You get the picture all very subtle, its a Scottish thing, but in the end you realise no its not alright. Theirs a victim (and usually a family), who all suffer through others lack of intervention.
Where is the investigative nature / exposure coverage in various Scots media – ? Answer : It does not exist. (Outside web sources).
All in bed with either Labour or Tory,(Same thing now), via their offshore & South of the border ownership.
When is the Scottish press going to wake up and smell the coffee or as suggested is there no professionalism left?
Thanks guys we’ll remember you always – honest!
Baron Robertson of Port Ellon:
A fine example of SLAB morals, integrity, honesty and sincerety.
He ain’t the worst, by a long way, but it is pretty sick. Do these people have absolutely no shame?
@Hand and Shrimp
fyi!
link to yesscotland.net
Handandshrimp – Posted this on previous thread
Prestwick Academy Debate of around 200 pupils
Before : Yes 33% No 44% Undecided 23%
After : Yes 51% No 40% Undecided 9%
Blair J v Blair M (heard he wasn’t chuffed
@Papadox –
Lord / Baron Robot Bobertson
I like to think he’s one of the worste.
The problem London Tories have is that they are stuck in this Dickensian England time warp. They always have been, even when, during election time they drift out of that box now and again, their true comfort zone is the Victorian/Dickens era.
Royalty
Aristocracy
Class system
Establishment
Jobs for the Boys
It stinks, and it will be the downfall of the UK.
Not long now, so we can vote YES to get away from this disgusting, elitist mess.
Apparently Alex Massie has written a piece stating he is confused over being Scottish and British again if we vote for independence.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is apparently too difficult to understand. If Scotland leaves it will be The United kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland because the Northern half of the British Isles aka Scotland will have left the Union. The people of Scotland will be geographically located on the British Isles which is part of Europe. On independence we will not cease to be European or British but we will most certainly be Scottish. The first two are an abstraction and the third is day to day currency even before independence.
The people of Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland are likewise all Irish.
Hey folks :
Any thoughts why Ken MacDonald BBC RADIO SCOTLAND refused to give out ‘Prestwick academy’ POLL result – AMAZING SWING TO Yes SUCCESS !
But just had to point out that it wasn’t all kids in the audience ? (chuckle, chuckle ??)
Christ when it was Aberdeen Area Schools it was never off the news and with so much detail it proved absolutely every Aberdonian child is No voter of that there is no doubt !
O/T Pretty Damning stuff about State Broadcaster & STV (Bias)
over on NNS
link to newsnetscotland.com
Gordoz
That was Ken trying to be impartial! He is the one of the few at Pacific Quay who could be described as fairly friendly to our cause.
@gavin lessells
Seems a bit ‘public’ to express overbearing scrutiny of the message in light of NNS info ? Over impartiality ?
Gordoz
I think he said that it hasn’t been published yet and he didn’t want to steal their thunder. The hint seemed to suggest a Yes win though and he did say the polls at the moment could be a default status quo until people hear the arguments. That is a positive message for the Yes camp in my book.
I watched the “A.Marr” show this morning and watched as Marr tried to get something from Putin on the referendum. Putin twice said it is up to the people of Scotland to choose.
He did say that there are some advantages to being part of something bigger but repeated, it is up to Scotland to choose according to their situation.
I think the MSM will quote the first bit and forget the own choice bit. If Cameron did approach Putin personally,then he did not offer the result Cameron would have hoped for!
Gordoz
Ken also mentioned the NNS article on the BBC impartiality. I think he is doing his best in a hostile environment and probably lucky to be getting away with it sofar. He could be Boothmanned out!
I don’t think Putin much cares for Cameron or Westminster. It might be viewed as an error of judgement to have asked in the first place. That said the US has been pretty neutral too with the US ambassador explicitly saying “We will watch it and we won’t take sides. We are neutral and we will just have to see what will happen”.
Cameron’s main support comes from European leaders making noises at their own independence movements not ours.
I passed Andrew Marr last Monday near Piccadilly Circus, he is rather a poor soul. His stroke has affected his left side and was limping badly with aid of a walking stick. Even though he is an unionist I still wanted to hug him for braving his permanent disability.
Are you sure there is a referendum going on? Being south of the border for the past two weeks it was barely mentioned and only one relative mentioned it. His comments were, that he noted, ‘the Yes vote was on the rise’.
Seriously Gordoz, it is time for everyone to stop paying the TV Tax. From the website…
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/technology–devices-and-online-top8/
Quote; “Exception: If you only watch catch-up services online, then you don’t need a licence. For example, you don’t need one to use BBC iPlayer, or ITV player, to catch up on programmes after they have been shown on TV.”
The fallacy is that you need a TV licence to own an actual TV set… this is not true. You only need a licence, if you watch TV as it is being broadcast at the same time on conventional TV in the UK.
link to dailymail.co.uk
I have my PC plugged up to my TV and watch (not very much mind) some catchup like Pointless (I’m a day behind, but one quiz episode is much like any other).
As far as I am concerned, the BBC were in breech of their contract with me in any case, by not being fair and balanced as set out in their charter. I doubt I could win that argument… I can however do the next best thing, which is what I have done.
@Gordoz 10:39
Your probably correct there Gordoz. Mark you we are spoiled for choice
I have known a lot of people from the isles and very nice they are. Strange there is a hotspot of unionism there Mcquarry Robertson. & the honey bear.
@Papadox – Aye good point.
As lads they all probably wanted to grow up to be ‘swash buckling’ Britons who would take part in the heroic Relief of Mafeking.
Since Scotland has no ‘identifiable culture’ or proud heritage other than ‘organizing the slave trade’ (surprizingly all after 1707 as I understand it).
They’re all held in high esteem in their places of origin, of that I’m sure. (Honest!)
Such so called Scots turn ma stomach (Always have / Always will). Can’t get their mindset at all.
@gavin lessells & Handandshrimp
Point taken & I do get you guys on Kens stance.
The point I was trying to make (not very well as it happens), is have you noticed the same care taken on No info/messages ?
All blurted out (often incorrectly with bias as if managed to feign sincerity of unknown inaccuracy).
I got the impression someone was listening in from big brother, or a memo had gone round about the announcement ‘sort of thing’; something odd anyway.
See NNS article on the State broadcater / STV paper (Bias) by University of WoS
I see we’re being love-bombed again with all the usual terms of endearment:”Stasi”, “the most illegal country in the world”, “North Korea”, “feral”, “private army”, “banana republic”.
link to theguardian.com
Is it happy accident that links to an article that says
“If you don’t like the world as it is, then change it. Don’t numb yourself into apathy.”
?