Wings Over Scotland

I’m gonna say he won’t reply.

“strength and Security of the Union”
Aye that will be Scotland paying for all the UKs strength and Security, because as we all know they need us more than we need them.

But…but! WM says via my ‘The National’

“The PM will reply in due course” 🙂

Return to sender address unknown (Elvis)

PS:
Big Brian on shortbread radio earlier bemoaning the lack of a Scottish budget all due to the delay in WM he says should have been November last year then promised for January now postponed till middle of March.
I don’t think Brian at auntie wie a kilt was genuinely sorry for our Derek Mackay though, who cant get his calculator out yet and only to be probably bushwhacked by the Green’s Patrick Harvey demanding more with menaces. 🙁

So it goes!

Mist001 @ 12:32,

Pedants’ corner: it’s “bated breath”. As in “abate”, and nothing to do with fishing.

But surely it’s up to the badgers to move the goalposts?

Boris is going to repeat his made up statement that Scotland had their once in a generation referendum and no is not the time.

He needs to be reminded that Scots are Sovereign, not Westminster and certainly not him.

Scotland has nothing in its constitution signing off anything with regards once in a generation.

He also needs reminded that his DUP Pals that has has constantly bribed before duping them with the No Border down the North Sea
tale have listed 7 years as a generation within their own legislation. That will do fine for Scotland too.

In order to keep Bojo and Westminster safe we need to get all the nuclear junk in Scotland down to the Thames forthwith.
I’d also lie to offer Scotland as a safe haven particularly to Londoners who will inevitably face the reprisals from Iran.

A little reminder of all the big Tory Hitters all demanding that with the current state of voting in Scotland they must hold the right to independence.

Lastly, we had better take that short cut to the European Courts to confirm to England does not own Scotland and they cannot dispel our basic human rights to be free.
h

In my constituency the people voted overwhelmingly for Brexit by a massive 62% and a mandate like that cannot be ingnored by any government

Said the Conservative MP from Bishop Auckland on TV

For those of you who don’t know, Bishop Auckland is a wee place in the North East of England in South Durham with a population of 24,262 and a working age population of 15,326 and a total catchement area of 150,000

5.5 million population in Scotland were outvoted and out imortantised by a town in England who voted the opposite way to Scotland and their word must be done

That’s how important Scotland is to England, still happy are we?

From the Rev’s Twitter feed.

Looks like UK ministers will be able to act in devolved areas in the near future.

If we don’t exit this union soon, we never will.

“As a result, the powers granted to UK ministers in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill extend to the whole of the UK and relate to both reserved and devolved matters.”

“Consequently, the powers allow UK ministers, acting alone, to make provision in devolved policy areas.”

link to archive.ph

The excuse now, is it’s not how modern democracy works, that is of course bollocks. The method used to leave the union should be the same as how we entered it, the majority of elected representatives.

I was content to go for a referendum as Holyrood uses a quasi-proportional system. But if Holyrood is to be over ruled by WM we must then fall back on the WM system. The SNP should be preparing a declaration of independence for the 31st Jan, the day WM brakes Scotland’s peoples sovereignty.

I vote SNP for independence, I’m not interested in it being the best mitigating government, it’s just a plan to be forever chasing Westminster. And Westminster plan to over rule Holyrood whenever it feel like it in the future, they don’t want good government they want compliance and subservience.

It was planned as a talking shop to fob off the Scots into thinking they had some self control, the Tories intend to make sure this is all it is.

If there is no action from the SNP soon it will be time to look for an alternative in the hope that a more radical party can emerge.

@Mist001

We can only hope the SNP know what they are doing, at this time we seem to have little alternative than hope they have as us spouting off on social media will have no impact, anywhere.

If the SNP prove to be a toothless party then we will probably have to build an alternative from the ground up, I then see independence moving outside my timeline.

RepublicofScotland @ 1.26. If UK Ministers try to overrule decisions legitimately taken at Holyrood (or in any of other devolved Assembly, for that matter) I think the outcry will be enormous. And not just from natural independence supporters.

I may be wrong, but I think it will have the complete counter-effect from what these UK Ministers were intending.

In my view, it will tip virtually all the waverers into the pro-independence camp. Even quite a few previously firm ‘No’ voters will start to seriously re-consider their position. It doesn’t take many of these to change sides and we are well on our way.

This will be especially the case if, as seems almost certain, they will try to overrule Holyrood on an issue which Tories oppose but which has widespread general support among the Scottish population. I can’t think of any existing Tory policy, on virtually any subject, which is going to be more popular with the generality of Scots than policies put through by Holyrood.

I don’t want to give the opposition any fodder, but there could be one exception. What would happen if the SNP try to ramrod their GRA legislation through Holyrood, while this was against the general view of a vast majority of Scots, and the Westminster government overruled it? In that scenario, they would thereby supporting the vast majority of Scots against a legislature and an executive at Holyrood which, on this particular issue, might be accused of having lost touch with their own people. I am not sure what the reaction might be in that case, although even then some who do not support GRA would still take umbrage at such interference.

That, in any event, would be a ‘worst case scenario’. I don’t actually expect it to arise. Even if it did, and the Tory government at Westminster seemed to succeed with that particular issue, they would soon try again with something nearer to their hearts and more inimical to the vast majority of Scots. Emboldened by apparent success, they would then put their big feet right in it. It wouldn’t take them long to let their overweening pride catch them out, leading them to impose themselves on Scots with an agenda that Scots really don’t like, and never voted for.

At that point, going too far, and becoming the cause of their own destruction, they won’t know what is going to hit them.

The minute Tory Minisiterial diktat directly overrules any of the powers devolved in the devolution settlement on any major issue, Westminster will have lost the plot altogether. The pro-independence barometer will rocket, the fire will spread very quickly, and the momentum will be unstoppable. Too late will the Westminster Tory Government (and its Minister for the Union) realise that it has set fire to its own house, and blown up its own ‘precious Union’ once and for always.

BoJo will go down in history as having succeeded where Guy Fawkes (another despiser of Scotland, by the way) failed. As Minister for the Union he will have got the Jo(b) done, by Blowing the house of cards that was the Union down, with one big breath.

I can just imagine him wearing his party hat, his paper crown with Happy Birthday written on it, as all the candles succumb to the enormous power of a single giant breath on his part. The spin will be that this is what he promised his English voters, that they would finally be able to celebrate with him the Birth-day of England’s Independence. (Independence from the shackles of everyone else in the whole of the rest of the world, that is – except the USA – and from common sense as well).

‘I got the job done; I set England free. Let the celebrations commence …’

‘Fine by me, BlowJo. So be it …’

I suspect that the goalposts have simply never existed.

I vaguely remember a long time ago Willie MacRae telling a story at an SNP meeting about someone (I did say it was a vague memory) asking Denis Healey about what would be required for Scotland to achieve independence.

“A majority of MPs?” “No.”
“A majority of MPs at 2 elections?” “No.”
“Every single MP?” “No.”
“Every single person in Scotland voting SNP?” “Fuck off – it’s still no!”

Mist001 @ 13:13,

Oh dear, it’s that bad, is it? =laugh=

I think that the negativity of UKGov is all part of the SNP’s reckoning, actually, even if the apparent passivity is grating to the likes of us.

All this arrogant but increasingly-desperate nay-saying and goalpost-moving by the Tories is beginning to back-fire, as we saw from the election results, and we are surely not alone in being acutely aware that the month’s end is truly a watershed moment. If it’s getting to us, it’s surely getting through to others less committed also. Which is good provided the opportunity is exploited for all it’s worth and not casually squandered.

That doesn’t deflect from the fact that the situation does rather put the spotlight on the expanded SNP contingent in WM, although for my money the real action should still come from the SG. A protest walkout of HoC by the SNP at month’s end might be worth considering.

I am sure Dominic Cummings will be devising some ‘strategy’ ….

The SNP winning the election in Scotland will be seen by Tories as a mere inconvenience in the context of most the UKnotOK ( mainly England) ‘gifting/lending’ the Tories their vote (aye right a votes a vote) the only mandate that will be heralded and honoured will be the one for Brexit.

Meanwhile …. I have read that Gordon Brown is set to speak at a staunchly pro-Union jaunt in NEWCASTLE in ANOTHER anti Indy Ref rally…an intervention for ‘local’ people (Geordies und other English ‘guests’ and proud Scot Buts immigrants who travelled there When the Boat Came In ) not for you Jocks currently in Scotland…but very much about you Jocks….actually seems fitting to have Unionist rally in…England…since not much appetite..as in majority…for Union in Scotland …Lol

He will be the headline guest at a conference organised by the These Islands group (Cult), set up by the Pro Union fanatic (Cult Guru) the go to guy for skewed graphs and skewed economics Union style obvs…… Brown’s Pedigree Chum Kevin Hague.

If Brown and Hague think that ‘Now is the Time’ for another one of his interventions….then their cause is indeed lost..to try and convince Scots to remain in the UKnotOK at this time…i.e. just before the UKnotOK closes the door to the EU on January 31st…well then I think we are in the realms of desperation and fantasy….the location is also a strong indication of where the REAL appetite for the Union is.

My mother used to say if your argument is weak you will be ignored…and it is only when you have a strong argument people will take notice…..Sooooooo Gordon and Kevin want us to believe that there is NO APPETITE in Scotland for Independence and yet Gordon insists on unleashing a constant onslaught of insufferable speeches in defence of the Union…you know the really popular, in Scotland, UNION..the one we are supposedly NOT wanting to leave but, according to Gordon and Kevin, is in need of DEFENDING….sorry run that by me again ?????…How does that even make sense…shurely one only NEEDS to DEFEND what is at risk ?…BUT their argument is Scots do NOT want Indy but to stay in the Union…the Union that Kevin and Gordon constantly need to DEFEND…from whom ?…surely if no appetite for Indy then their actions and words are pointless..indeed very much surplus to requirement if their majority pro Union Scots opinion/argument was credible ?

I am not , for once, screaming at this…but laughing…it is beyond ridiculous and oh so very desperate…Brown the Union uber alles GO TO GUY…a spent ‘force’ (not)…who was never a force politically…more a liability…the one who never got a gong even though he has and still is going above and beyond his Pro Union duties and civic remit to ensure Scotland remains trapped in a Brexit UKnotOK.

Boris knows he cannot IGNORE Scotland’s desire for another Indy Ref forever…he can however still continue to try and undermine it and argue against the MP’s , but only those from the SNP, who were DEMOCRATICALLY elected by peeps in Scotland to represent them at WM and…. he can also, laughingly, continue to try and defend a (Non) Union well past it’s sell by date….but it is NOT sustainable for him to continue to do this in the long term because we DO have a strong argument for another Indy Ref and a viable reason to have one…..I think Boris, Gordon and Kevin know the tide is turning and intervention is futile….but …for our entertainment.. they will persevere in their futile quest….and thus continue to preach only to the converted….for others their message will fall on deaf ears…rightly so.

So an answer in the form of a dismissal from Boris to Nicola to holding another Indy Ref will not be a constant ….whether it be 2020 or 2021 it IS inevitable….and once more we have a STRONG argument to win it…irrespective of all of the Unionist WEAK interventions.

If Kevin Hague needs to call on Gordon Brown to ‘Save The Union’ and Gordon Brown accepts this invitation to try and ‘Save The Union’ from Kevin Hague……….. then that is really really really really really really etc etc……….

Something so worth laughing about is it not…L…O…F***ing ….L.

Is it not laughable enough that Boris Johnson is PM…PM …..must we also keep getting even MORE and MORE Brown interventions on the Union (Non) uber alles and Tories like Kevin enabling him….resistance is futile ….this is just all too too funny…as in uber bloody Ha Ha.

David Whannel @ 14:42,

Personally, I reckon “goalpost-moving” as Stu is now highlighting is a far better strategy than your supposed “paedo-propaganda”. We’ve had wildly-inflated wall-to-wall nonsense about “once in a generation/lifetime” from the Tories for far too long now, and it’s high time we – and the SNP – gave them back a good taste of their own medicine.

As Stu is showing, it’s not as though there isn’t a lack of hostages to fortune lurking there in the media records.

mist001
If you think the media would give the same coverage to the SNP as they do the Yoon parties, I think you’ve “mist” the point.
SNP BAAAD after all.

@ Capella

Seriously. Is that the letter that she sent to Johnson? Is that really it, it’s not a fake or anything?

Robert J Sutherland, I’m afraid ‘Tory paedo *******s’ has a stronger ring to it, is already fairly well known and will be brought up at every conversation. Most think it’s just the cover up, but I’m talking actual charges there are hundreds including Labour, LibDems and other right wing scum, not propaganda.

If the shoe was on the other foot do you think unionists would sit on it?

Try bring up ‘goalpost shifters’ in an average pub or church hall and see who listens…

A lot of people in England talk about Scottish Independence and how Scotland doesn’t want it, even people from Scotland go to England to talk about the people of Scotland not wanting Independence, then the government of England declares that Scottish people don’t want Independence and the broadcast media owned and run from England informs Scottish people that they don’t want Independence, and all these people in England are so sure and certain of themselves that the people of Scotland don’t want Independence that what’s the point of asking the Scottish people at all

I mean that would be a complete waste of time wouldn’t it?

Keepers at the Zoo offer animals different foods to find out what they like, monkeys have better civil rights than Scottish people

Please send just £2 per month to help us save the rights of Scottish people to make decisions, thank you

Majority of Scots now want Independence.

It’s now been proven. Westminster and the U.K. government are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

We are on our way. Keep the heid all.

wull @ 15:34,

Many wise words there, wull, as is your wont.

I think we would be in a slightly better place though if we didn’t also detect a certain sentiment in the SNP, at various levels of influence from the grassroots right on up, that is positively averse to any kind of confrontation, regards Brexit as an unfortunate aberration and inconvenience that is best allowed to pass by as quickly as possible, and is clearly prepared to wait for another decade or more until there is some kind of “sign in the sky”, as it were, that it’s finally time to act, in the then full certainty of success. The opposite of “gung-ho” is arguably a “lack of moral fibre” (as the old euphemism went), hiding behind a fig-leaf of the need for a careful choice of ground that you rightly describe.

Leaving we “gung-ho”-ers with the sinking feeling that we are going to throw away the genuine opportunity of a lifetime for mere lack of courage and – it must be added – from our own side’s lack of gumption, ideas and presentation skills.

It is surely this widely-shared feeling of relative impotence, relieved only by the occasional glimpse of success as with the Joanna Cherry et al constitutional challenges, which is our main difficulty at the moment, and why many of us are hungry for more.

Not least because among ordinary folk, nothing succeeds like visible success. We have just had a very good election result, which is a welcome advance, but which must surely now be thoroughly exploited.

@republicofscotland

Little New Zealan 4million now population but 3million before has been elected to the Security Council several times. NZ has lots of friends in the world due to diplomacy and trade and our semi non aligned diplomacy (since we declared ourselves non and anti nuclear). From the Asia/Pacific region including Chile and Peru to the Middle East and Africa as well as other small estates in Europe such as Norway.

iScotland could emulate that post Independence. In the immediate period after our independence we will need a major diplomatic effort around the world to helpf us make new friends as we will have a window of international interest and good wishes. Doors will open. So in between a Yes vote and Independence Day we will need to build a diplomatic service perhaps initially using deals with British Embassies. A network of consuls will help as well, the diaspora may well be falling oer each other to be consuls. I know I would if I was back in NZ.

@ Dr Jim

It may have escaped your notice but opinions are all anybody has on this board. Very, very few people seem to deal in facts.

I live in France. The Rev lives in Bath, neither of which are Scotland. You’re seriously saying that because neither of us currently live in Scotland, then we know nothing???

You’ve spouted a load of nonsense and THAT’S a fact!

Agree Dr Jim. By living in Scotland you are nearer to the pulse of People living there. What they think, how they act etc etc.

By living elsewhere it’s only an opinion that you can gather from other sources such as biased TV and Newspapers and make comments on.

The opposition are complaining that the FM of Scotland is to fly out to Oslo tomorrow for a conference address, meetings with business and political meetings with leaders there

The opposition cite climate change and flying as their reason for objecting to the FMs visit and state that she should be video conferencing any meetings for transparancy while conveniently forgetting about Boris Johnsons Mustique adventures, of course part of the FMs visit to Oslo is an opportunity to have private and secret conversations so it’s simple, she’s no tellin, stick that in yer pipe and smoke yer transparancy

@Mist001

If you live in France or anywhere else then you have no vote or locus in the argument, all you have is an opinion and if anyone wants to pay attention to that it’s up to them, but I reiterate if you have no vote then you don’t count, when the voting is counted you don’t exist just as the President of France wouldn’t

@Dr Jim at 5pm

Great news that our FM is taking the initiative and going abroad to specific events to represent Scotland and it’s people as is our right (and hers) to do so.

If Johnson was 100% sure of his ground he would have replied by now after all his NO NO NO rhetoric my guess is he has to have long conflabs with legal eagles and others to find a position he thinks and hopes he can defend, or you never know he might see the bigger picture and realise that an outright refusal places him in and his trade talks in an awkward position

Johnson knows like we know the FM will refuse to accept an outright NO so he has to figure out the ramifications of what might come next

To continue in a despotic manner will not win Johnson friends or influence people abroad that he hopes to deal with

Dr Jim @ 17:21,

I doubt he spent much time on the matter whilst sunning himself with a poolside drink in Mustique, so I guess he’s only catching up with the legal eagles now he’s back. But if the SG can’t but follow-through on what they’ve started, so must he, like it or not.

This thing is just not going away.

@ TheItalianJob – good to see you popping in from time to time too 🙂

I hope Robert Peffers returns once he recovers from his cataract op. Others lurk over on Scot Renewable’s Indyref2,scot forum, which I can’t link to atm. Legerwood and Petra have decamped to Wee Ginger Dug and Bellacaledonia. I’m hoping that once a campaign starts they will mostly return.

I just keep on keeping on, like a few others. Somebody’s got to do it. : )

So Sturgeon is off to Oslo to tell them more about her plans for Scottish independence than she tells us!!

It’s fucking laughable.

The British state appears to be under the misapprehension that it has the power ‘to grant’ independence to Scotland should a majority opt for it.
This implies that shared assets of the three century union will stay with the BS. Indeed the perception that Scotland going its own way will simply be a bit of the UK hiving off leaving the remaining entity with all of those lovely assets untouched is very common.
The Scots contributed nothing so ‘they’ can leave with nothing runs the message. Of course, ‘they’ will be expected to pick up the tab for ‘debts’ accrued.
A weak régime in Scotland might well fall for that one. We must pray that when the great day comes we have one one prepared to demand a full inventory.
The winding up of the UK will need its Domesday Book.

@ Dr Jim

Do you make a habit out of saying ridiculous things?

I thought you were looking for votes, so how would it be nice if I don’t have a vote in the next referendum? That’s one less vote.

And you think that’s ‘nice’!!

LOL!!

I expect the Tories and their allies in the media will this year focus the same energy and resources which they used *successfully* to destroy Jeremy Corbyn on the SNP and the frightening thing is The SNP have presented them with all the ammunition they will need, GRA being top of the list.

@Abulhaq

We either walk away with our resources and WM keeps the debt if they want to keep all the assets or they come to an amicable arrangement (not sure if that option is really open with WM, they have no honour when it comes to negotiation).

BBC Scotland backing the Tories on the budget date row by neglected to tell viewers that Derek Mackay had written to uk Treasury twice before Christmas pointing out the problems regarding local government budgets but still UK Government failed to respond and news on delay came via Tory press briefings.

BBC remain UK government cheerleaders

Thank you, Robert Sutherland @ 16.41, I do take your point, and do sympathise, especially if (as I am sure must be the case) you have indeed met people within the SNP who are in favour of the never-never land of eternal delay, claiming to do so on the pretext of choosing the right moment. Such people, much different from the traditional membership of the SNP, whose aims and objectives they do not genuinely share, are a dead weight.

My guess is that these kind of people are the down-side of the massive spike in membership which the SNP ‘enjoyed’ (or ‘suffered’) in the wake of the 2014 referendum result. Many who joined then, or since then, were genuine, but others were not. These latter do the SNP considerable harm.

I suspect some of them are actual plants, which is insidious, while others (most) are a certain kind of ‘entryist’ who simply identify whichever bandwagon will best deliver their narcissistic hopes of having some kind of ‘political career’, and climb on to it. If so, they are mere opportunists who have no genuine convictions or deep commitments, but simply join up where they think the power lies and their own personal chances of advance will increase.

Anyway, whether I am right or wrong about that, I doubt very much if the core leadership of the SNP, or most people at that level, are quite like that. There might be some, but not many. Even granted the internal diversity which has become increasingly apparent within that group in recent months, in particular among the SNP’s MSPs and MPs, I don’t think the splits are mainly between those who want to get Indyref2 now and those who want to kick it into the long grass, sending it years or even a decade down the line …

For sure, there are questions of strategy and timing among these SNP elites, and that brings tensions … But my impression is that insofar as there are real divisions, these are around other issues and factors (and, no doubt, personalities).

Personally, I think the timetable is clear, pretty much to everyone at the top of the SNP. They are definitely going to go for a September referendum. That’s the immediate objective.

Realistically, since all kinds of things can happen ‘twixt the cup and the lip, they will have factored in the possibility that it won’t quite happen like that, although they will do everything they can to ensure that it does. In which case another timetable, with various possibilities, is surely clear in their minds and well planned for.

According to my guess, they will have pencilled in that failing September 2020, they will go for December. And if events conspire against them so that even that doesn’t work, it will be April 2021 (maybe, specifically, April 6 2021).

There will be yet another scenario in the planning, all the same, just in case. If events intervene in such a way that even April 2021 prives possible, the June 2021 Holyrood election will be the decisive moment. It will be used as a plebiscite. They will campaign in such a way that the result of that election – even without a referendum – will settle the matter.

Whether we like that timetable or not, we can be sure of this: Scotland’s right to choose will not be thwarted indefinitely. The inside (i.e. earliest possible) date for deciding the issue is September 2020, and the outside date (the absolute latest for it) is June 2021.

In other words, the vote on Scotland’s independence is FOR SURE going to take place EITHER 9 months from now OR, at the very latest, 18 months from now. That means ALL OF US should take heart: it’s game on, as of NOW.

Of course, the SNP are not going to publicise a timetable like that, with all the various scenarios it includes. You may be sure that these various scenarios – with all the multiple possible eventualities and response to these eventualities which they include – will all have been worked through in minute detail and charted out already by the backroom boys in the SNP. And they will still be doing ongoing work on these charts even now. And will continue to do so all the way through.

Technically – though I am not sure – I think this kind of stuff can be called ‘Game Theory’. It’s what professional political parties do, in their background teams whose members you never hear about. They might not be known, but they are there – and my guess is that the SNP have generally (not unfailingly, but generally) been pretty good at this kind of stuff.

Are they going to blazon it all from the rooftops? Certainly not … That would be to give far too much away to the enemy in advance, and could be equivalent to tossing the game away. You play the game to win, and that includes keeping your opponent in the dark, not least about your strategies and intentions.

Of course, they are not going to tell us – the likes of you and me – because if they do that, they will have told Boris Johnson and all the braying Nay-sayers as well. They are not into the business of scoring own goals, or giving away open ones. That’s why we need patience.

The SNP really DO want to have a referendum, because that carries maximum weight with the international community. And, for the same reason, they do not want any ambiguity about its legality. They are therefore determined to leave not even the trace of a loophole that could be construed as invalidating it.

They really DO NOT want it to come down to the June 2021 Holyrood election, which I have indicated as their outside limit date. That is a messier option than that of an indisputably legitimate referendum. It is a ‘worst-case scenario’ for the SNP. But, if it does come down to that worst-case scenario (the June 2021 option) the SNP will by then have made it abundantly clear to everyone – and not least to the whole international community – that this has only become necessary because the Westminster government has continually denied the Scottish people their democratic right to hold a referendum on Scotland’s independence.

All that will have been made very explicit, not only within Scotland and within the UK, but in every international forum as well, during the 18 months period between now and then.

I have no warrant, and certainly no inside knowledge for saying any of this. I am not an SNP member and don’t know personally any of their top or even their middling people. Nor do I want to, in fact. But it does seem self-evident to me that this is what is already happening.

In fact, it seems so obvious, I don’t see how anyone can disbelieve it. Nicola Sturgeon has already pinned her colours to the mast, and so has the SNP collectively. They did so very clearly during the December election campaign, and they spelled it out in their manifesto. They KNOW they CAN’T kick the can down the road any longer. They KNOW that if they were to do so, they would lose all credibility. They KNOW they have to move on it full steam ahead now, and they will NOT be letting up.

Don’t expect them to spell out the details – that would be foolish – but they themselves surely know that June 2021 is the absolute limit date. If they were (in my view, foolishly) to announce that, Johnson and the Conservative government will then simply play for time – and do nothing until then. (Or, at worst, they will try to find a pretext for closing down Holyrood altogether, so that no 2021 elections ever take place – a move which, as indicated in a previous post, would rebound very badly on them indeed, since of itself it would be almost guaranteed to bust up the Union: the consequence of such a move on Johnson’s part would be to push support for independence through the roof, to an unprecedented level).

As I said, the SNP’s preferred option is surely Indyref2 in September 2020. They will be going all out for that. Just wait and see … Or else December 2020.

Meanwhile … They have all the best cards, and they are quite right to play them close to their chest.

As you say, Robert, at 5.27 pm above, this thing is just not going to go away. It’s already game on. I hope we all take heart (and apply our minds as well). What none of us should do is allow ourselves to be sucked into a totally unwarranted ‘pool of despond’; that is the sort of thing to which we should NEVER succumb, because it simply plays into the hands of the enemy).

Either in 9 months time, or at the very latest in 18, we are going to win … and win big!

It’s not long now. It really isn’t … So let’s become ‘YES TOGETHER for INDY’.

Helen Yates @ 18:00,

Hi, Helen. Are you professionally despondent, or does it just come naturally? I haven’t seen a single posting of yours – ever – that isn’t thoroughly depressive (and depressing). If it’s therapy you seek, I’m sure that there are far better solutions available elsewhere.

What we all need more than anything right now is hope, and positive ideas for how to move forward. After a recent considerable electoral success, don’t forget.

Mist001 @ 19:07,

Well, there it is out in the open, at least. Another “Colin Alexander” construct. From the very same stable, even?

I have an idea, it know it works for me, why not just scroll by the fuckwits, just saying.

This sort of political uncertainty could be easily avoided if the spirit of the British constitution was respected by Westminster. Unfortunately, legal realism and a respect for the rule-of-law appears to be a stranger to Britain. The British constitution was not intended as a vehicle for Scotland’s enslavement, but that is exactly how the Prime Minister intends to abuse it.

Beyond Legal Realism?: Cultural Analysis, Cultural Studies, and the Situation of Legal Scholarship

INTRODUCTION: THE DEATH OF THE SOCIAL AND THE TURN TO CULTURE

….The twentieth century familiarized us with the idea of propaganda and the fact that political forces needed to utilize mass communications in order to realize their power. Today, however, the cultural has become more than a supplement or a delivery vehicle; it is quite literally where theaction is.10″ In today’s academy, sociologists, political scientists, and lawyers find themselves invoking “culture” at the expense of, or in response to, an emerging crisis within their own master references, such as “the social,” “public opinion,” and “law.” The cultural, in short, has become a stand-in for interpretive grids that can no longer be utilized effectively….

link to scholarship.law.berkeley.edu

Morgatron @ 7.41
There’s nuthin in the world as underestimated as a good shite,so I wish ye aw ye wish yersel 🙂

Another killer post at 7.03, wull.

Only thing I’d disagree with is that the referendum might be held before the Holyrood elections. If we lost that referendum it would wreck the SNP’s chances in an election immediately afterwards, so it’s unlikely they’d risk that. They’re just a bunch of troughers after all /s.

The elections are currently slated for 6 may 2021, but there’s the option to move that date by a month. So they might move the Holyrood elections forward to early April and then hold the referendum sometime before mid-June.

Nice optimistic time of year to hold it, and it would be good to really demoralise the opposition with a Holyrood victory/landslide immediately before the iref campaign. Plus as noted the other night, it would make the Tories and Labour look ridiculous to have to tear each other apart during the Holyrood campaign and then *days later* to pretend they’re best of Yoon buddies in Better Together 2.

Early 2021 might be the best time anyway. If Boris goes for No Deal at the end of this year, the ensuing bedlam would be the perfect background for iref2.

This graph clearly shows the progress we’ve made in indyref polls since mid-2017: link to whatscotlandthinks.org

With regards to K***n H****’s wee shindig with The Clinking Fist Gordon Broon in Newcastle soon.

link to thenational.scot

“These Islands conference will be held in Newcastle in February with the “aim of bringing together the disparate voices defending the integrity of the United Kingdom”.”

I propose we should all be fully BTL across MSM, and any other Gammon infested forums asking all those who feel that the ‘Subsidy Junkie Jocks’ should be kicked out of the Union to turn up in Newcastle and protest this event!

Along the lines of:

“Turn up and protest this event whose sole aim is to keep Greater England shackled to the Scottish spongers who want to have free prescriptions, free Uni etc. that England doesn’t have, while wanting to let foreigners in, get rid of Britains Nukes, kowtow to the EU etc. etc. and have England pay for it!”

A “Kick Scotland out the Union to save wasting money that would be better spent on Englands NHS and Police etc.”

Wouldn’t it be a pity for H***e and Broon to be confronted by a group the people of South Britain, their fellow Unionists and see what these people (as per their BBC/MSM brainwashing about the Scottish) really think of us Scots and saving ‘The Precious’!!

You know it makes sense.

😉

Turn around every way, looking back another day
The race is on, I’m out to win, before I start I must begin

Sometimes I feel we are just going round in circles with no clarity, Spencer Davis just popped into my head.

link to youtube.com

Colin Alexander @ 8.30.

Your post would be humorous satire if it were not so true.

But the SNP can act. It has a mandate both in Hollyrood, Westminster and in the EU referendum.

The SNP need to play the system and challenge the Constitution and how Westminster operates to the point of destruction.

Where does the constitution say that Scotland’s MPs can be disregarded, that the Westminster Parliament is forever unless non Scots MPs decide otherwise. Or what about Scots Law. Is it subservient to English law. Or what about Prime Ministerial decrees. Are they valid in Scotland.

The Act of Union did not dissolve Scotland. Let us not believe that it did.

It’s hard to imagine what sort of people object to a government helping people who need help or who object to a government who tries to give a hand up to those who’ve slipped back, what sort of people want their neighbours to be in poverty and why do they vote for politics that they know will make things that way

Places like Ireland Norway Sweden Denmark have all been praised at one time or another for having happier healthier countries and each of those countries follows similar political methods to the SNP and each of those countries have the same thing in common, they’re wealthier and they don’t possess the desire to jaunt around the world killing other folk for what they’ve got, which is usually oil

These people object to the SNP trying to do what these other countries have done and are doing, and by these objections are demonstrating they don’t want equality, they don’t want fairness or happiness or even peace, they want dominion by dictators even if it means they are dictated to

Maybe they think if they achieve dominion status over others it won’t mean them, because that’s just like voting for the best fighter among a gang of thugs hoping he’ll be your pal and won’t beat you up next because you’re grovelling and kissing his Arse

It makes us Scottish Independence supporters look brave, those others, not so much

Mist001,
WoS should do a weekly compilation of your SNP baad posts.

Could call it ” Now That’s What I Call Bollocks”

If I was to try and put a name on my thing, it would be called cultural morphology, or the study of culture and the subsequent formation of political belief and norms. Why do I think this important and useful to our struggle to secure proper legal recognition of the sovereignty legal personality of Scotland’s residents? See Brexit, which is the cultural expression of the collective narcissism that characterises contemporary English nationalism.

The only way to bring about effective change is to understand the nature of the beast, i.e. political culture. If you spoil a kid and allow them to grow up a self-centered and racist twat, the kid probably won’t grow up to be a nice person. More probably a Tory, or British nationalist, though it is generally hard to separate the two identities. The same can be said for culture, especially one that has not dealt with the social pathology eminating from its corrosive colonial past.

Gaelic Scotland in the Colonial Imagination
Anglophone Writing from 1600 to 1900
link to nupress.northwestern.edu

Brian Doonthetoon
Pedant. 😉
Sorry to hear about your loss.

I think it is because if the Scots Govt don’t pass a budget/set Scottish Income Tax rates by 1st April 2020 this means they CANNOT raise any SCOTTISH Income Tax (you know the powers they say SG aren’t using, whilst at the same time using them to make Scotland the highest taxed part of ‘The Precious’ @Liz g says.

link to archive.is

My take is that this strategically late UK Budget will either:

1. Cost Scotland’s Exchequer £13 Billion (so money destined for our Health, Social Care, Education, Councils etc.)

BoJo can then let Scotland be short of cash (putting our Councils, Services etc. at risk so BBC/MSM can say Scotland shite ‘cos EssEnnPeeBaad)!

or

BoJo can benevolently ‘lend’ money to Scotland to address this shortfall (showing the broad shoulders/pooling sharing of ‘The Precious’ is true while simultaneously increasing Scotland’s deficit).

2. Make Scot’s Gov desperate to pass a budget (by end of March 2020, so within 3 weeks) that Harvie’s Woke Party can extract vote losing concessions to ensure it passes at the 11th hour

Sneaky fuckers the Tories and starving your enemy of resources is a classic siege warfare tactic.

Brian Doonthetoon

Brian sorry to hear about your brother, it’s very painful.

Hope things get brighter for you.

Brian Doonthetoon

My sincere condolences to you.

Briandoonthetoon
Sorry for your loss Brian xxx

Jockaneese Wind Talker @ 9.47
They’re defiantly up to something with it!

For any lurkers or newbies to WOS looking for reliable sources or maybe just reassurance about *anything* connected to Scottish independence then here are the best 3 sources:

1: You’ve already found it, WOS, explore the well-stocked archives.

2: link to indyposterboy.scot

3: link to businessforscotland.com

Please help to promote these sources to everyone you can. Each of them are major thorns in the UK establishments heart. There are many other pro-indy sources but with these 3 you cannot go wrong. Each offering different styles and practicalities. With some regular bedtime reading you’ll be fluent in ‘Indy’ before you know it. 🙂

The nonexistent so-called “Colin Alexander” @ 20:30,

Oh gawd, not Sun Tzu again. That’s so last year.

I don’t accept the argument that those of Scottish origin who live elsewhere and maintain a keen interest in Scottish affairs aren’t qualified or sufficiently knowledgeable to hold a meaningful opinion re: Scottish politics and Scottish Independence.

I’m extremely uncomfortable with those who make that sort of crass, exclusivist and baseless argument. Does Stuart Campbell know nothing about Scottish politics, for fuck sake? It’s a simple, unfortunate truth that too many indigenous Scots, regardless of age, gender or class, know little about Scottish politics and affairs, and care even less. A reality which surely helps explains the defeat of 2014 and why we remain Dependent.

UK Parliament Wed 8th

11.30 am

Oral questions, Scotland

usually a chance for the House Jocks (Murray,Bowie,Ross,Carmichael) to show their English masters how much they hate Scotland,

12.00 pm

Prime Minister’s Question Time

Mist 001…

You can only vote in the Scottish independence referendum if you are living in Scotland

The link you put in your post refers to elections
There are different rules for elections
You can vote in general elections if you have lived in U.K. at some point during the last 15 years
But that 15 year rule does not apply to referendums
That’s why all the Scottish people living in England wales NI etc etc and overseas were not allowed to vote in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum

Sorry to read about your brother Brian. Hope you are still feeling ok enough to attend the Glasgow march on Saturday.

A headline states “Soleimani was a monster, says Trump”

Hmm, some might consider a monster to be someone who okays an assassination on highly dubious legal grounds.
If the extremely graphic pictures I saw today of Soleimani after the strike are legit, then blowing and burning someone to bits IS the work of a monster.

Decent minded folk use diplomacy and legal channels to resolve conflicts, only fucking psychopaths resort to such violent atrocities.
This is just yet another reason for Scotland to end this shitey UK union asap and return to governing ourselves, because if we remain tied to the idiots governing the UK who will undoubtedly be looking to have closer ties to the US, then by association we’ll inevitably be getting dragged into more of this atrocious behaviour.
Warmongering…Not in my name.

Dr Jim…well said 9.01pm

A nice post DrJim I agree wholeheartedly

Togetherness is what we need
Help those who need help
For whatever reason
Even if self inflicted
Nobody in their right mind inflicts harm on themselves

SNP doing a great job
Not quick enough for some folk
SNP are the only way we will get Scottish independence

I’m at the AUOB march Saturday looking forward to it a lot

Anyone on the 0749 train from Dundee fancy a blether on the way let me know

SNP are strong , clever , successful
Look at what they’ve done and all done with Westminster and it’s hangers on hampering SNP every inch of the way
But they the SNP can do it as they have shown over and over again

We are strong too don’t lose faith in SNP this is the time for holding together

Way OT
Seeing on Twitter Iran is attacking a US Base ??
Anybody heard?

CameronB Brodie.

Sunday boys club and BB
Brings back memories to me

My shins were in the BB Strathmartine church
I enjoyed watching the stuff they used to do and they enjoyed doing it
I did find the marching a bit over the top , they used to go to a wee church hall on Victoria street just down from Wallace town health centre for marching competitions.

My youngest son was in Dundee west u9,s from age 7 til he 16 then played junior for a couple of clubs til knee injuries ended that.
I managed a Dundee west team u9 through to u16 loved it great years in our life my wife Helen loved it too we regularly had six seven children back to our house on a Sunday we had a big garden so the football continued and my fridge emptied.
We went to the St. Andrews tournament every summer won it a couple of times and got to the quarter finals of the Scottish cup.
Actually I was secretary for the whole of Dundee west for a number of years
Great times

Hi terence callachan on 7 January, 2020 at 11:29 pm.

You typed,

“I’m at the AUOB march Saturday looking forward to it a lot
Anyone on the 0749 train from Dundee fancy a blether on the way let me know”

Chris and I are on the 9.10 Megabus from Dundee. Maybe catch up at Glasgow Green…

Also,
“It’s been a tough day for you
Sorry to hear about your brother”

The ßugger is that there is one space left in the family plot at Balgay, for an urn, and I thought I’d be taking it. My younger brother has usurped my position…

I’m a loser but we won: Ian Murray

Labour’s Ian Murray has a very principled stance on the 2019 General Election in Scotland, he says: The Tories are bad for Scotland the Lib Dems are no better, but when it comes to the SNPs mandate for an Independence referendum he says the SNP didn’t win the election in Scotland, the 3 UK parties won the election together which proves that Scotland prefers them to the SNP which means Scotland wants to be in the UK

So there you have it Ian Murray admits that everybody is bad but collectively they’re good, and that of course is even after Labour lost every MP bar him he claims Scotland still wants him and all the rest of them rather than the SNP

Ian Murray must have had to work his wee feeble TorLab mind overtime to spin that out for himself and hope enough idiots fall for it

@ terence callachan

That is emphatically NOT true. I was sent and returned, a postal vote for the 2014 independence referendum, so you are WRONG. Why do all you experts in Scottish soveriegnty and all this have such a poor understanding of your own doorstep?

Now, if I can be arsed and if you want to drag this out, then I’ll tell you that I have been on Facebook since 2010. Proof of my postal vote and participation in the 2014 independence referendum is in my Facebook archives. I can get them any time I desire and can prove that you are wrong.

Stop spreading lies.

Better together says the UK as Ross Kemp does another programme on Englands murder rate by the use of guns
This week Birmingham is the place to go if you want shot dead in the street and Ross took us out and about dressed up in all the police protective gear as the armed officers (which have been doubled in England) broke down doors and recovered sawn off shotguns, automatic pistols and even the latest craze down there Uzi type submachine pistols which if you know weapons have all the accuracy of a drunken piss in an alley (every direction at once)

While the media in Scotland complained every night for a year about pigeons getting in an open windae in a hospital in Glasgow the English media were squashing the news that England is now the murder capital of Europe

But you know what was annoying about the whole programme, Kemp kept referring to London Birmingham and Liverpool as suburban UK never mentioning England once

I’ve known about this stuff for a long time because half my family are from the Midlands and you have to be John Wick to survive down there

@BrianDoontheToon very sorry to hear of your loss. Must be dreadful to lose a sibling. I will raise a glass to him. Say hello on Saturday if you see me.

Tomorrow the UK government is to announce new rules and conditions for EU citizens residing in the new order Tory UK

Priti Patel’s been on the case again, let’s hope everyone has their Papiere or Reiseausweis als Passersatz or it’s off to the poky with you to be interviewed

Scot Nats should unambiguously support a NATO LED WAR FOR IRANIAN FREEDOM and lobby for the entire british army to be sent there

– conservative friends of israel, labour friends, libdem friends, the rabbis, howard marks, simon schama are on board, calling anyone who disagrees an ANTISEMITE who might as well have pushed anne frank into the gas chamber themselves, while dr mengele and emperor palpatine laughed

the british army, eager to strut their stuff, get stuck right in – trouble is the top brass think they are going to the dardanelles, which again, results in disaster for british arms as a lot of kebab salesmen rout them by pelting them with shoes; the remnants of the defeated legion are incinerated by american A-10s who mistake them for the taliban (- or was it revenge for the limeys burning down the white house?)

undefended, we push south – and no, we will not be turning back at derby

the scottish legions insert themselves stealthily, on stagecoach buses and eddie stobart lorries – once in place, we strike – drones shutdown heathrow, fireworks are set off down the tube, a massive EMP is set off next to the bank of england servers, causing the pound to be worth -negative_underflow dollars; the finance warriors cash in on the forex derivatives markets with massive short positions on the pound; the profits allow the YES movement to simply buy out all the oil corporations and the FTSE 100 companies.

– our online psychological warfare units strike – twitter posts are made by “afro caribbeans” insulting the prophet, similar posts by “muslims” insulting gypsies and naughty “gypsies” referring to black people of colour as “negroids” (in a bad way) … the resulting race war is a testament to the power of multiculturalism.

– our top hackers hit the motherlode – phil the greeks porn collection, which had been on super8 and dvd, but he ripped it all to his wifi network and used obsolete WPA encryption with the default password 1234

– the royal family is pwned with enough blackmail material of such disgusting perversion and hilarity that even prince andrew says : GRANDPA DUDE -youre a fucking perv …

– for added insult to injury and top bantz, the hackers replace the UKgov homepage with hilarious deep-faked vids adapted from pornhub featuring – royals, margaret thatcher, mountbattern, bojo … and the real joke is that the fakes are indistinguishable from the real stuff on big phils laptop

– smashed their army, sent the country into chaos with divide and conquer, caused an economic meltdown, blackmailed the powerful bending them to our will, then buying out everything they have for next to nothing … (we have learned well from our enemies)

and efter that, the gemme wiz oors

I see The National has spunked its load by publishing a story giving credibility to the idea that Iran was responsible for Lockerbie, because of tenuous inference from a tweet.

Remember this.

Derek MacKay upset about his budget proposals in March.

I think that’s SNP Code for “We’re not planning any surprises over your unconstitutional subjugation in three weeks. It’s capitulation all the way for you Scotland!, but do remember to vote for us in 2021, because who else you gonna vote for?”.

And folks say the SNP doesn’t communicate… sheesh.

Ian Blackford is apparently ratcheting up on Indie2. The Scots opposed to independence should have it graphically put to them just what a collection of post imperial, British state dependency junkies they are. These delusionals need rough treatment. Deploy it now Mr Blackford.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your brother Briandoonthetoon. My sister died in 2017 and I miss her and think about her all the time, but it does get easier and my thoughts are about the very happy times we had together as children and grown ups.

Confused @ 00:49,

Are you well…?

@Briandoonthetoon.

Belated condolences to you and yours on the death of your brother.

Oh…and you did go on to state emphatically what the rules are regarding ‘elections’ for those living abroad, as others have pointed out, this criteria didn’t apply to indyref1.

No one is ‘meaning’ to ‘accuse’ you, but even you can see that it does raise a question, if you were in France and received a postal vote it can only be that you are or were in the ‘forces’ which is fine too btw, but maybe you should have led with that to prevent confusion?

O/T

Scottish Questions coming up at 11.30 am.

Mhairi Black is the new Shadow Scottish Secretary, will she get a question for Alister Jack or will it be a Tory pile on of ‘Scotland is pish’ today to get in the right mood for PMQs? Will Johnston even turn up?

This wee gem about failing schools in England would be worth having to hand for the inevitable schools jibe.

link to archive.is

I wonder how many members of the armed forces abroad were sent postal ballots in Indyref1? There were 800,000 postal ballots, if I remember correctly. But then a similar number of people were removed from the voting roll the following year. The magic number 800,000 seemed to crop up in a number of guises around Indyref1. Were there not 800,000 spare ballots printed in case of accidental damage?

Perhaps the Electoral Commission, instead of inventing lengthy and spurious “lead in” periods uniquely for Scottish referendums, could investigate the liklihood of postal ballot fraud?