Friends and comrades
Just for fun, we thought you might like to see a list of the Scottish Labour MPs, MSPs and MEPs who are eligible to nominate a candidate for the leadership and deputy leadership positions, but have declined to endorse anyone for either.
If you wouldn’t, don’t look below, whatever you do.
MPs (17 of 40)
Gordon Brown
Tom Clarke
Margaret Curran
Thomas Docherty
Frank Doran
Tom Greatrex
David Hamilton (no, us either)
Jim Hood
Cathy Jamieson
Michael McCann
Gregg McClymont
Ann McKechin
Iain McKenzie
Ian Murray
John Robertson
Lindsay Roy
Anas Sarwar
MSPs (9 of 38)
Kezia Dugdale
Mary Fee
Patricia Ferguson
Hugh Henry
Johann Lamont
Paul Martin
Siobhan McMahon
Anne McTaggart
Drew Smith
MEPs (2 of 2)
David Martin
Catherine Stihler
The mildly interesting thing is how many of the party’s front-benchers have stayed out of it. Gordon Brown, Margaret Curran, Johann Lamont and Anas Sarwar have nothing to say on the matter. Another former leader, Iain Gray, nominated a deputy leader (Kezia Dugdale) but not a leader, as did Michael McMahon and Duncan McNeil.
(Which strikes us as odd – how can you know who’d be the best deputy when you don’t know who they’d be having to work for? Can the same person really be a suitable foil for characters as different as Murphy, Boyack and Findlay?)
Of the 25 MSPs who expressed a preference for leader, 13 nominated a fellow MSP (six for Neil Findlay, seven for Sarah Boyack) while 12 felt they’d be better off led by a Westminster big-boy MP than any of their own Holyrood colleagues. Every MSP who wanted Murphy as leader and had a preference for deputy chose Kezia Dugdale.
MPs Brian Donohoe and Tom Harris (remember him?) were the only two to opt for an all-Westminster leadership team of Jim Murphy and Katy Clark. Eight people – two MPs and six MSPs – wanted an all-Holyrood pairing in charge.
The full lists are above. Make of them what you will.
Interesting reading!I see Neil Findlay has put Katy down as deputy, Kezia will be gutted!
An awful lot of not genetically programmed decision makers there.
Something else I find interesting is that, of the younger (i.e. 40 or under) contingent, not a single one has backed anyone other than right-wing Murphy.
Richard Baker, Gemma Doyle, Pamela Nash, Neil Bibby, Mark Griffin, Jenny Marra – they all voted for Murphy. And I can’t really see the likes of Ian Murray, Tom Greatrex, Anas Sarwar, Thomas Docherty or Gregg McClymont plumping for Findlay or Boyack if they decide to declare their nominations.
At least the old Labourites pretend to be left-wing!
(I’m assuming Kezia won’t declare her preference…)
As a triplet, I find the above graphic offensive. As for Labour I couldn’t give three f*”:s.
Findlay / Clarke looks like the best ticket for me from the point of view of integrity, values, electoral likability.
So it will be media manipulators Murphy / Dugdale who win it then.
@ Doug Daniel
I’m guessing the younger ones have voted for Murphy because their beady careerist eyes are on the big prize for themselves in time to come.
I.e. by keeping London Labour’s/the BBC’s man sweet, they’re banking a little goodwill for themselves further down the line.
Have any of these younger ones come from any job or career background other than the New Labour career route?
There is an amazing lack of involvement going in the red tories. But they won so they probably think that’s that now and its just regional branch stuff.
doon the cludgie
O/T Rev, I popped over on the B.B.C. web site to look at the Record’s front page, it’s got a photo of a fella dressed in a ku klux klan outfit! and the syne behind him, with flag, declares it’s a loyalist meeting, held in Blantyre, but I could not be bothered to read the report, just pass it on to “wings” to remind folk that those idiots are still active.
Quinie frae Angus – well, a quick glance suggests the only job any of them has ever had is as an assistant for a fellow MP/MSP. I notice Neil Bibby has worked for both Ken Macintosh and Jim Murphy, for instance…
(His Wikipedia article also says “Bibby has recently been widely tipped as the next Scottish Labour leader, following the resignation of Johann Lamont” – I suspect that will be removed fairly shortly…)
Oh, hold on, Gregg McClymont was a “tutorial fellow” at Oxford – that’s almost a real job!
Aw, isn’t that nice, the 3 nominees voted for themselves.
Thick or whipped – that is the question.
re Doug Daniel’s observation above:
thanks for that Doug – hadn’t spotted it.
For anyone who still repeats the old line, ‘the Labour Party should know better than to do this…..’ it’s a pretty clear argument for giving it up !
There are more and more who have only EVER known SLAB as a career ladder on which political principles just get in the way of making a big salary. They are just opportunist spivs, out for a fast buck, who would probably have found jobs in “The City” if they could. They have no ability to be ashamed – they are what they are and Murphy is a natural leader for them.
The ones who might once have known a little better are the older ones – they should be deeply ashamed but, apparently, are able to live with what their party (and mine as was) has become.
Whatever: both lots need sweeping away on to the dung heap !
I was kind of hoping for œufs brouillés. Ach well, at least we know the Scottish public doesn’t appear to stomach the powdered eggs Labour are offering, any more than I do. Pardon my prejudice for fresh produce.
I do hope JM gets it.
Murphy still the favourite to “win”?
Sic a parcel o rogues.
I sense a bloodbath brewing which would grace a Tarantino flik.
Popcorn anyone?
I could almost feel sorry for Findlay and Boyack for the lack of publicity for their campaigns, but perhaps they now realise how bad it was for the Yes campaign and for the SNP generally to be ignored in favour of allegedly big beasts. If Murphy wins that will be two more people from within his party who will hate him.
@John Boyes 8:02
I think it’ll be aerosol (not sure I’ve spelled the first bit quite right)
I am amazed at so many in the Red Tory Party falling over themselves to nominate a rabid right-winger like Jim Murphy. Still, I suppose they know what side their bread is buttered on and they have received the script from London (as has BBC Jockshire).
I am convinced that, five years down the line, the Tory and Labour parties will sit together at Holyrood: they may even have merged by that time. Can anyone tell the difference? I know it sounds bizarre, but with Murphy at the helm and the Red Tories offering nano-devo, in so many ways the Scots Tories are to the LEFT of Noo-Labour!
I obviously do not understand politics. How is any of the above possibly going to increase SLAB fortunes in Scotland?? I know it is just a branch of the bigger Labour Party, but I thought the whole point of Labour was to get as many Scots MPs as possible (by spouting “nonsense” about fighting for equality before the election — and then instantly forgetting Scotland even exists the minute they get to WM)?
So only 12 out of 38 MSPs, less than 1/3 have nominated Jim Murphy.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the new boss is it?
Something I noticed on Twitter earlier. My timeline kept on getting bombarded with random tweets and re-tweets from the usual suspects (Hothersall et al), declaring support for Kezia Dugdale.
There does seem to be a bit of enthusiasm for the deputy leadership race. Not many people telling us who they are supporting for leader though. Awfully quiet on that front.
Me thinks they are obviously supporting Murphy, but feel to dirty to admit it.
@albaman at 7.15
Saw the same picture of a scottish loyalist in a KKK outfit on a facebook link yesterday.
Just remember what we learnt from previous threads – the orange order are linked up with labour – they’ll be canvassing for them come the spring!
Can’t contain my total indifferance
I note Kezia hasn’t nominated herself (bucking something of a trend when compared with other candidates). Modesty? Or because deep down she *actually* doesn’t want it? I wonder if she’d have nominated herself if she was stuck on 9 supporters?
Senior figures abstaining because they wish to hold their positions unaffected, or because they realise it doesn’t matter who becomes ‘leader’. The figurehead will be told what to say anyway.
The younger members on the list have got to display their support and righteous fervour by at least representing.
One cannot estimate what might happen upon stirring the wrath of Jim.
Strange how the electorate broke records with the referendum vote and some of those nominated by the people can’t be arsed.
Commitment to the role,the party and electorate.
Until such time as one decides to do something else, Darling.
Do I detect a modicum of jiggery, or pokery,or both?
These Loyalists?
https://twitter.com/ReeceUTLR/status/529000456371326977
So Alistair Darling will be standing at the next election
Arise Lord n Lady of Stoat.
So,does the lack of a nomination show that you are against but don’t want to be seen as being against the the one that you think will win?
Or is it, that it shows that you don’t care who wins because you know the winner and new regional manager will have no power,the real power lies in London? They voted NO so our jobs are safe and we can’t be bothered,its not important anyway.
So Alister Darling wont be standing at the next election
Arise Lord n Lady of Stoat.
(Scratch the 1st post )
ronnie anderson
Does that mean he is not not standing at the General Election?
Ronnie
I shall scratch my reply too.
@ Marcia, as reported by our worthy news channel Bbc,he wont be standing in Edin west
I find it interesting Anas Sarwar has not backed anyone – he has no idea who would make a good leader or deputy… He just knows he is not the right candidate for either position? Pretty pitiful admission for a young ambitious guy.
2 questions – is it a single round election or do they eliminate the lowest vote first? I seem to remember this happening in Westminster leadership elections before.
Also – is it conceivable that Sarah Boyack’s could drop out if she sees her cause as lost in order to prevent Murphy winning?
“Branch manager”. I like it! I like it a lot in fact.
Meanwhile Murphy is as low (sic) as 1/4 with some bookies
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-scottish-labour-leader
I’m sure we all know what Labour should do for the best for itself and it’s [censored deleted]
(who says the SNP hasn’t already set up the SIA and the SCLA (Scottish Counter-Labour Agency) ?)
Ah just dinnae like that Jimurffy.
So Murphy already has 11% of the total vote, and Boyack and Findlay about 4% each. Dugdale has just over 11% too and Clark less than 1/3 of that. And that’s before a single member of the Labour Party or an affiliated union has cast a single vote…
Personally I think Labour had yet another chance to turn round (by electing Boyack) and they blew it again. Because just like Ed Milliband was the only candidate who could stop the Labour civil war in 2010 (and he did), Boyack is the only one who can cure the Sxottish party from their SNP-fever.
It is reassuring to see the Douglas Alexanders, Willie Bains and Jackie Baillies going for Murphy/Dugdale. It kind confirms all is well with one’s political compass.
No last night but the night before..
3 wee monkeys came tae ma door..
Wan had a fiddle and wan had a drum..
And wan had the BBC richt up his bum…
O/T – Lesley Riddoch has a book out and I can think of no better Christmas present to give someone (especially if they are a don’t know or even a no):
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/11/03/lesley-riddoch-on-her-indyideas/
@Cynical Highlander at 8.43 who posted a picture
that’s the very one! Well done!obnoxious crew!what a choice of a hallowe’en costume!!
if you’re (or anyone else) is interested in seeing what i think of their fake titles have a look here http://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/royal-black-preceptory-appear-great-because-they-say-they-are/
Regarding Doug’s point above about all the under 40’s backing Murphy, could this be in any way related to “The Network” Murphy helped run in the late 1990s to get New Labour candidates selected?
Timing maybe doesn’t work out, but maybe most of these people were staffers for the people The Network helped get selected?
If so, this is as much about Murphy’s army taking over as juniors keeping in with the new boss.
Tam – it’s single-transferable vote, so there’s not really any point in someone dropping out, since they could still win if the votes from the first person to get eliminated all transfer to them. Never happens like that, of course…
Just back from a packed SNP meeting at Bruntsfield Hotel in Edinburgh.
Angela Constance was a guest speaker and spoke very well, including telling stories about winding-up Jim Murphy.
Angela also, in answer to a question about media bias, gave Wings a good plug (big applause), and later praised The Wee Blue Book.
Angela and the other excellent speaker Jim Eadie MSP both spoke in favour of some sort of YES Alliance for the 2015 GE.
Angela clearly understands that the grass roots movement is what got us to 45%, and will be what gets us further success in the future.
@Christian Schmidt:
You’ve mentioned Boyack above, and I’ve been wondering something about her ever since she announced she was standing.
What I’ve wondered is simply this: why now?
IIRC, she was a close ally of McConnell, yet didn’t think of standing as leader – or even Deputy – in 2007, 2008, or 2011. So what has happened since 2011 that made her think she should go for it?
I reckon it’s simple: what happened was that she worked closely with Murphy in the party review in 2011. That means she’s either standing now as an agreed token opposition to disguise a coronation, or she realises he’s a complete scumbag and wants to stop him.
It’ll be interesting to see the body language in any debates, I reckon. She certainly doesn’t strike me as a natural Murphy ally.
This is interesting, but a little unfair, because nominations are not votes.
It would be quite reasonable for a MP/MSP/MEP to say that none of the candidates are good enough to get their nomination … and then cast a vote for the least-worst.
http://www.l-r-c.org.uk/
Only interesting thing here is the younger faction mostly supporting Morphy.
Could it be to finish him off before he becomes a real threat ?????
Their having a laugh, it was all cut and dried weeks ago!
So the under-40 Labourites are all neo-cons. Explains a lot.
@Calcagus McAndrews
Thanks for the news about Angela Constance at the SNP meeting. Thanks goodness somebody at that level in the SNP has had the balls and the honesty to shout out for Wings and the Wee Blue Book!
It’s been beyond annoying that so many people on “our side” have not given Wings his due – eve though we know they all read it!!! I wasted eons of pre-Indy Ref time justifying my support of Wings to snooty Facebook friends (usually those working in the media!!). Of both Yes and No persuasions!
Brownie points for Angela, as far as I am concerned.
Wings has been a HUGE and very essential element of the grassroots Yes movement and it’s time it was recognised – publicly – by all those who have benefited from the integrity of Stuart’s journalism.
One of the biggest beneficiaries being, as these polls would seem to testify…the SNP.
Charles Edward says:
3 November, 2014 at 8:41 pm
Senior figures abstaining because they realise it doesn’t matter who becomes ‘leader’. The figurehead will be told what to say anyway.
____________
100% CORRECT
https://archive.today/iGboB
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Very good news, glad to hear that common sense reigns in the SNP.
Actually, I believe Stewart Hosie has had kind words to say about Wings and/or the Wee Blue Book as well in the past (think it was Stu himself that mentioned it to me), and he often tweeted links to Wings articles during the referendum campaign.
Don’t know about Keith, maybe someone should ask him!
@ Calgacus MacAndrews, Good on Angela many in the SNP recognise the value of WOS but dont want to mention Wings re the Johnstone Scum tag,kin we still wear our Proud Cybernat badges if we get respectable.
O/T
I see another major oil field has started pumping oil from Scotland today. According to Nexen who work the golden eagle field North East of Aberdeen, it is the second largest oil discovery in the Scottish sector of the North sea since 2001.
The entire golden eagle area development is expected to produce 70,000 barrels per day by 2015.
And not one freaking penny of the revenue will come to Scotland, but go to London instead. Aye, London really is better off ‘better together’ ruling Scotland.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cnooc-limited-announces-first-oil-091400833.html;_ylt=A0LEVyOb.1dUdbAAxqlXNyoA
@Doug Daniel
Good to hear that Stewart Hosie also recommended Wings links, I wasn’t aware of that.
Interesting that all 3 candidates for SNP deputy are of excellent calibre.
Calgacus
I get the impession Constance reads some of the WOS comments as well. Hi Angela! Anyway, a little ditty I’m rewriting:
‘Twas on the good ship Labour
By God you should have seen her
The figurehead
Was a Jim Murphy egg
Currying for Tory favour
The skipper’s name was Ed
With Cameron shared a bed
They screwed and screwed
The Scottish brood
Unhoused and underfed
The lugger’s mate was Jim
The skipper ordered him
To keep the Scots
Inside their cots
Because they’re all too dim
The end of this Narration
Came in Jubilation
ScotLab got sunk
In a heap of junk
From too much flatulation
So Smurf is pre-elected basically? Good fortune for Scotland with it’s fresh awareness. He will be torn to pieces on social media. Later also on emerging Scottish MSM. GE2015 could be fascinating event.
Calgacus macandrews,
Aye I like Angela, but voted for Stewart, as he had a similar manifesto, but has more experience, and given the polls, a deputy based at Westmidden could be most useful. Have to say, I do like Angela though – lots of good ideas.
Lots of good things going on at the SNP right now. Then the massive (12,000) rally with Nicola at the SSE Hydro comes up on 22nd Nov.
Davy Hamilton is actually one of the Labour Parliamentarians who I recognise from that list. By 21st century Labour standards he is a left winger. I would hazard a guess that he is the only living Labour MP who features favourably in a song written and sung by Dick Gaughan. He was falsely imprisoned during the 84-85 miners strike and ultimately acquitted in court. I would expect him to support Findlay and Katy Clark.
No surprise that James Kelly plumps for the Murphy-Dugdale axis. It would be wrong to describe Kelly as right wing though, as that would imply some underlying political philosophy. I would expect Greatrex to do the same, but Rutherglen Labour MPs have historically been sponsored by the Engineering union and with Unite more likely to support Findlay than Murphy, he may have to tread carefully, even with a 21000 majority.
You can feel the love, can’t you? 😀
@Ronnie Anderson.
Just checked out that link of yours and found:
“Left unity is in practice an ambition often more praised than realised, but the vanity of small differences should play no role in the setting of our post referendum priorities. The Scottish Left will now be obliged to focus on our common interests, something which in our view can best be advanced through the vehicle of the People’s Assembly. The referendum campaign pulled many people into active politics for the first time. The fact that in the teeth of official disdain a campaign was sustained which sought, however misguidedly, to challenge the established order of things should be welcomed and its energies harnessed.”
Yes, that is the way to engage with people. “You have been very misguided, but now, can we please harness your energy?” Deluded, deluded, deluded.
@David Stevenson 10.27pm
I had a look at David Hamilton’s website recently, where it reported that only 2 of the 32 council areas had voted Yes. I sent him a wee correction, to which he responded:
Your comments are noted.
It was clearly 4 and the Newsletter was amended before you sent your email.
But it does not take away the fact that the NO campaign won the vote on the referendum and it is time for you to realise that.
This was my response:
A victory won through lies and intimidation of elderly people with disgraceful threats that they would lose their pensions if they voted yes is no victory at all. Your party is in meltdown because 1.6 million Scots have finally realised that New Labour has been lying to the people of Scotland for decades, and thousands more Scots are just beginning to realise it.
We expected lies from the Tories; that goes without saying. But you claimed to care about the poor and the vulnerable. People trusted you and you betrayed them. Remember this: if you lie down with dogs you will get up with fleas. You and your colleagues have just finished signing your suicide notes. Scotland will be independent within the next ten years and there is nothing you can do to stop it happening.
For some reason I haven’t heard from him since then.
@ Annette, sos wrong link was ferreting about lab associated sites deluded Mwa, nae chancety of that, ah often make mistooks.
@Natasha
Loved it. Well done you, keep it up please 🙂
Natasha: Yes, no surprise that you have had no response. The truth hurts. That they expect Yes campaigners to meekly give up the fight is probably born of the fact that is what Labour did after serial election defeats to the Tories. They threw not just socialism, but social democracy, in the bin and adopted the outlook of the Tories. Politics became merely a change of management rather than policy. So long as the gravy train is riding the rails, that is good enough. They can’t cope with a significant opposition based on principle because they don’t understand the concept.
Quinie frae Angus
Interesting that all 3 candidates for SNP deputy are of excellent calibre.
I found it tricky picking the order as I think all 3 candidates are strong and all 3 impressed me during the campaign in different interviews (and in the past). I think any of them could do a job.
Compare and contrast the discipline and relative harmony – the SNP can hold a deputy leadership ballot with not a cross word (to my knowledge) and no-one trying to destroy anyone else. The labour benches must at times view the SNP with envy, and maybe not a little amazement that it can hold itself together.
Re Angela and Stewart Hosie’s comments on the wee blue book – it is inconcievable that anyone committed to Independence could not be impressed by it and the monumental number of copies distributed. It still amazes me that there was zero coverage in the media at all – despite it being the most influential document produced.
That still blows my mind – how can hundreds of thousands of copies of a book be published and distributed in this small country of ours with no mention in the press?
Labour and that elusive integrity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0DlRIE4gQo
you are bored now Rev, tis a boring waiting game
David Stevenson – Tom Greatrex was a policy advisor for Jim Murphy when he was Scottish Secretary, so I reckon he’s got a favourite!
@ Tam Jardine
“That still blows my mind – how can hundreds of thousands of copies of a book be published in this small country of ours with no mention in the press?”
I know Tam, it is truly breathtaking. The silence, of course, was deafening.
Stephen Daisley of STV, and Kevin McKenna of the Guardian were brave enough to put their heads above the parapet and commend Stu’s writing.
But of the WBB itself, not a peep did I see or hear in the press.
Cowards, pure and simple.
O/T
Had an interesting experience today. A doctor who works as a locum periodically at our local hospital came into our new larger YES shop to collect the computer and monitor he had leant us at our previous small Yes shop
The shop was busy but he told us an interesting tale
He was working in Glasgow and he met a well dressed but quite drunk English lady who appeared to be lost. He offered to assist her and she said she was to book into a hotel (Not sure whether she had booked in and got lost or was still to book in). After calling at several hotels she arrived at the Radisson where the doctor helped her and her bags up to a room. He noted she had a helluva a lot of money in her bag. She suggested she would get a shower and order a couple of bottles of champagne sent up if he wanted to join her. He rather wondered at this point what was her profession. He turned the offer down and made to leave. She said “Well, put a thousand pounds on a NO vote.It’s fixed. I’m up here to help fix the referendum”.
Goes without saying I will be getting more precise details next time the doctor comes in. He said he could pinpoint the exact date by checking at the Radisson
@ Natasha You have the knack of influencing people scratch Dave as a friend, an ah mean scratch deeply lol,keep up the good works.
Sorry that this is o/t but just got this back from the Daily Record
Thank you for your email regarding The Vow.
I believe there is a large amount of misinformation surrounding The Vow, specifically the suggestion that it was a creation of the Daily Record.
This is categorically absolute nonsense.
The Daily Record had no involvement at any point in the wording of The Vow. The words were provided by email to the Daily Record in their finally form after being written, discussed and finally agreed by the three political party leaders.
The offices of the three party leaders also provided electronic versions of their signatures – in keeping with standard practice in this electronic age – specifically to be published at the end of The Vow to demonstrate their commitment to delivering their promise of more powers for Scotland.
The leaders further agreed that the Front Page of the Daily Record would be their chosen mechanism for telling Scotland about their joint commitment. Therefore, Page One of the Daily Record on September 16 IS the official document, of which several hundred thousand copies were produced and distributed on that day.
There seems to be a suggestion that, because the three leaders did not jet into Scotland for a secret summit to sign a piece of parchment with a quill, that The Vow is somehow invalidated.
This could not be further from the truth. The three leaders have all subsequently, and on several occasions, publicly endorsed and reaffirmed their commitment to delivering their vow.
Even the leaders of the SNP and associated Yes campaign organisations, accept the validity of The Vow, even if they are naturally sceptical about what extra powers will ultimately be devolved.
One of the most bizarre suggestions about The Vow is that the leaders knew nothing about it until after it was published by the Daily Record.
To believe the Record could do so and that three powerful politicians like the Prime Minister, his Deputy and the Leader of the Opposition would not then disown The Vow the very next morning is naive in the extreme. Getting politicians to stick to promises they have themselves made is difficult enough. To have them stick to a promise they did not make would be impossible.
The fact is that The Vow is doing its job. It is part of the reason why the Smith Commission is sitting and why Westminster politicians have not been able to renege on their promise to deliver more powers to this country, as the nation demanded in the referendum aftermath.
I hope this note explains the true position regarding The Vow.
Thanks,
Murray Foote
Editor
@Dave McEwan Hill
Interesting story.
Do you think the Doctors lady friend had time enough to get through 400,000 men and women?
@Dave McEwan Hill
Please keep us informed!!
@ Quinine frae Angus Cmon noo Quinine if I sat a exploding device on your coffee table an geid you a match,would you have lite the fuse,did I mention they were well aware of the WBBs value to the Yes campain.
@Flower of Scotland
Great that you got a reply but for the editor to talk of people flying up to Scotland ect is a red herring.
Why couldn’t they all have sigbed an officially drawn up document in Westminster, scanned it and then sent it to the record?
You should ask for copies of said email and their electronic signatures to be provided or published.
Just listened to the two candidates for deputy dog of Scottish Labour. Dugdale and Katie somebody, telling us they need to connect again, “we need merr hooses, joabs and social justice”.
The other one said, “ah agree wi hur, we’re in the same Party ye know”.
Very in-depth BBC Scotland 2014 interview, not.
Why didn’t Labour do all these social things when they were in power. Scottish Labour really are pathetic.
I learned absolutely bugger all from these two NO voting unionists.
@Flower of Scotland
That’s interesting. If I may, I might suggest you email that response directly to Rev Stuart via his “Contact” form. He can’t possibly have time to read every single comment posted on the threads but I am pretty sure he’ll want to read that, as it relates directly to his recent articles on the matter.
Still seems bizarre, disingenuous, ridiculous and utterly unprofessional in the extreme that the 3 leaders would have something so fundamental as their definitive – and final – take, on the future of this country (and theirs) promulgated by a tabloid red-top in that way. Even if what Murray Foote says is true, that this was done in the way he describes is frankly insulting and offensive to us as Scots on the brink of a Referendum to decide the future of the 300-year-old Union.
@ Dave McEwan Hill, Sounds like a story ma Phycobabbler would make up lol.
PSYCHOBABBLER
@ Ronnie Anderson
I know! The WBBs were flying off every single Yes stall.
Goodnite all Fspellings getting worse.
David Hamilton (no, us either)
That had me laughing out loud.
David Stevenson says:
3 November, 2014 at 10:27 pm
Davy Hamilton is actually one of the Labour Parliamentarians who I recognise from that list. By 21st century Labour standards he is a left winger.
He is not a left winger. Being a SLAB MP and a left winger are mutually exclusive. I do not doubt he was once a principled man but that was clearly a long time ago.
He voted for the welfare cap to punish the poorest in society and was one of the many ‘left wingers’ who was an absentee for the bedroom tax vote.
If I was going to sing a song about him it would be this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMpu3zNY-wk
@ronnie anderson
Yer spelling is getting worse because of too much sleep!
Have an another Irn Bru or two and stay up all night 🙂
Latest Ashcroft Poll for 2015 GE:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/11/ashcroft-national-poll-con-30-lab-29-lib-dem-10-ukip-16-green-6/
Read down the page for SNP percentage.
As to the “VOW”, In the email i received from the PCC they claim the Daily Rubbish said the “Vow” had been a mock up written and designed by the paper and asked me what i thought they meant, to which i replied it was not for me to define a word which already has definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary,it should be for the publication to explain. My complaint was based on the fact no document could be shown, and my definition of the word “Mocked” may easily not be that of others
I am awaiting as are others a reply
Pretty simples ,i think….
Ronnie Anderson
I emailed the photographer from George Sq, Will let you know if she posts any pics through to me.
Murphy did a gig at the Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh recently.
He also has connections to South africa.
So does this cheeky chappie
http://tinyurl.com/oekqa6m
Interesting
bbc and weir group says it all
Interesting view of the outcome of the 2015 GE published today and based on the latest polls here:
http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/#information
No explation as to the methodology or maybe i didn’t look hard enough.
The editor of the Daily Rancid is telling porkies.
“Therefore, Page One of the Daily Record on September 16 IS the official document”
How can it be an official document if it was slapped together by an outside party? The official document is the one sent from source… would love to know what e-mail address it was sent from!
The whole point of the VOW was to say anything those daft enough to swallow it would believe in — and then worry later about denying or covering up…. which is what this pathetic excuse for an editor of a disgusting rag is doing right now.
@ Alex Clark
Interesting poll. I certainly think 22 is more realistic for the number of SNP MPs — and the map shows a lot of red on the west of Scotland which could be vulnerable and eventually go yellow….. Also encouraging is the suggestion that the SNP would, under such a scenario, be the third largest party in the UK, with one more MP than the Lib Dems.
I can’t wait to see the Lib Dems buried forever, simply because they are such a minor party still being stuffed down our faces… If I were in England right now, I swear I would campaign like an animal for the Greens, who have very principled and intelligent leaders.
CraigThePict:
I don’t disagree. The pertinent part of my comment was this:
“By 21st century Labour standards …… he is a left winger”.
Not by actual standards.
24 seats is their predicted mean, high of 33 and low of 15.
I instinctively feel this is the right ballpark though wish it to be at the higher end.
Found the table on the same site with predicted gains for SNP and probabilities here:
http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/tables/SNP_seat_gains.html
It looks like electoral calculus have updated their engine to take full account of the SNP on their mainpage.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Enjoy 🙂
One last thing.
I took the pre-referendum polls with a pinch of salt and I intend doing the same with these recent polls.
I’ll be keeping my feet on the ground, I expect significant gains for SNP but like the Rev’s recent article tried to put across, a majority of pro-indy Scottish Mp’s in Westminster will exceed my expectations.
Expect much more than that and you may just be setting yourself up for a fall. One huge disappointment in a single year is enough.
Don’t let yourself be fooled by those that control and own the pollsters, particularly Ashcroft and Yougov.
Mind games are at work, as always, keep a cool head.
@ Alex Clark
There is a very vague and generalized description of their methodology on the seat predictions tab – I find it hard to believe that Charlie Kennedy is so near the top of the SNP gains list, so I think all their get-out clauses about what the model doesn’t know probably apply there, and no doubt elsewhere.
A clue to the electionforecast site is this which I saw last time I looked and found again:
Our pooled summary of recent polling, starting one year before the election”
Last May for instance, voting intentions in Scotland were Lab 34%, SNP 26%, so history would drag down the SNP lead:
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/3u2newm986/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-220514.pdf
Problem with trends in polls is that they can’t take account of cataclysmic events, like the upsurge in support after the ref, and all Labour’s subsequent problems with being the “winners” along with the Tories.
@Flower of Scotland: the admission from Murray Foote that…
“The leaders further agreed that the Front Page of the Daily Record would be their chosen mechanism for telling Scotland about their joint commitment,”
…is interesting in that it contradicts the earlier claim that the vow was a response to a request for more information from the Daily Record. Here Mr Foote claims it was the other way round, that the three amigos chose the DR to announce their agreement, meaning the vow was indeed in breach of the Edinburgh Agreement.
Mmm, well with Ashcroft only 90 in Scotland and 25% refuse/DK/won’t vote, topping up by 4/3 we get:
Con 10.7%
Lab 17.3%
Lib 5.3%
SNP 56%
Grn 4%
UKIP 2.7%
Other 2.7% (possibly SSP)
No comment except I don’t think we need electoral calculus to tell us what the result in seats that would be. Oh, sorry, Carmichael is the only Unionist left!
@gillie
So the under-40 Labourites are all neo-cons. Explains a lot.
Of course. Most of the younger labour parliamentarian crew are from Tory families and Tory university societies and would have came out as Tories if the brand wasn’t so toxic in Scotland. They decided to run with the dog that had the most chance of getting them a seat, labour, and became close to those within the party that shared their Tory views. Murphy, Blair, et al.
Alex, I agree about expectations, but on the other hand some are saying “set up for a fall”. Well, I look at it like this. If we publicly say we only expect 30 seats, then those in constituencies with high Labour majorities won’t even bother voting SNP as a “lost cause”, they’ll vote to keep the other party out. So we get 30 seats and say “hurrah” we got what we expected.
On the other hand we say we expect 54 seats, every seat is therefore up for grabs, people vote SNP. So what if we “only” get 40 then, I hardly think any of us will care if the media say “well, they expected 54 so it’s doom and gloom for the SNP they only achieved 40”. Or even 30.
Don’t know about you. but I’d be so busy laughing I wouldn’t be able to read or hear the MSM anyway.
@Yesindyref2
I agree with you there! Every voter needs to turn out for this to work. Higher expectations may encourage the voters to come out and be counted to make history, even if those expectations are not reached
Personally my take is this:
20 seats -> Decent amount, can’t grumble
~30 -> Good result. I’d take this
~40 -> Fantastic result. Probably the maximum that can realistically be reached, but awesome. Balance of power is in Scotland’s hands. the UK dances to our tune.
~50 -> A dream. Amazing, but likely a dream.
@yesindyref2
When polling closes and the votes are counted each party will get as many seats as the voters believe they deserved.
There is no need to broadcast your own personal expectations only to work as hard as you can to fulfil, or even better, exceed them!
@Alex
I think Labour are scouring the forums not just the articles, and since Labour are running around like a dog with two tails and fleas, the more we can keep them that way, the better. They’re on the run, we don’t want to “give aid and support” by telling them we only expect X seats. That’s my take, and goes with the constituency perception, where we need voters to realise there’s a genuine chance of the Labour MP with 2010 50% of vote or more actually losing their seat, and pants with it.
The other thing is I’m seeing too many pro-indy sites taking the pessimistic view, and optimism and pessimism are contagious. What some might see as realism (I don’t), the MSM will pick up on as “fact”. The MSM will pick up on any pessimistic projections, amplify them, and dismiss the SNP as a matter of course.
Anyway, as an aside, polls were showing a bit of a surge of support for Conservatives which was a bit worrying, but that seems to be going down again which is just as well, as a Conservative rise would make “tactics” much more difficult.
@yesindyref2
I’m neither an optimist or pessimist. I’m a pragmatist.
I certainly wouldn’t take a sub-poll of 90 people given the SNP on 56% too much weight. Wise decisions are not made on such flimsy evidence.
I believe the Rev may have commissioned a new poll for Wings Over Scotland as was recently hinted at. If it’s from Panalbase again then I’d be more inclined to believe the numbers.
Let’s discuss again if/when this poll is released.
@Alex
Aye sure, in fact eliminating the DK etc, it’s only 67.
Doesn’t stop me from using it in forums as long as I do it honestly and openly “small subsample large margin of error”. It gets the unionists, not sure what to call them these days, maybe anti-SNP squad, wriggling, gasping for breath and jumping up and down – and helps keep them on the run. It also brings out the worst in them 🙂
Fair Doos Peter Piper 🙂
@Flower of Scotland et al.
I agree that the only way to lift all doubt would be to unveil the respective email exchanges.
However, this isn’t possible w/o the written authorization of all parties…
Whatever the guy says, I like this excerpt: Getting politicians to stick to promises they have themselves made is difficult enough. To have them stick to a promise they did not make would be impossible.
That’s well put.
@Alex and PP
Heh, both good points. I have a fair degree of sympathy for both views. It rarely does anyone a service to build false hopes or project wildly optimistic and unrealistic results on very early figures. How and ever for several reasons I think in this instance it does us all a power of good to over speculate.
Firstly – hope. People need a lift after September. They need to feel that their continued engagement with the political process means something, that they are making a difference. A good fizz of optimism and get up and go is essential for those folks whose political nonce has long since atrophied from lack of use. The serious anoraks and long term campaigners and activists will indeed be far more knowledgeable and pragmatic. They’ll have more realistic numbers to aim for in their own heads and damn, they’re spectacular enough to be getting on with.
Secondly – the opposition. Its well known they are probably as regular visitors to these forums as we are. Its a valuable source of information for them on a number of levels. The higher they see our morale to be, the lower theirs gets and that’s just fine by me. What’s happened since the referendum result has been announced is nothing less than a historic political miracle. There are some days you have to pinch yourself and wonder just who did lose on the day?
There has literally been a tectonic shift in politics in Scotland and its directly attributable to communication encouraged and generated by these sites. People talking, arguing, getting energized and engaged. People speculating and sharing information, working with and for each other. A camaraderie the opposition would bite their own legs off to be able to achieve. However small the contributions, however funny or wildly optimistic we get, they’re all valued and encouraged.
You can’t buy that. You can’t put a price on it, but my God you wish you could bottle it. Politicians have been looking for this holy grail of motivation since forever. 😀
My own opinion on the numbers? They don’t matter a damn, I’m numerically challenged. I say let’s wipe the floor with them at the ballot and do the counting of seats bit later. 😉
Oh, and by ‘THEM’ I mean Labour, Tories, Libdems. I make no distinction when talking about the three parties who would leave Scotland a penniless, helpless, powerless wreck with a population only good for electoral currency. They all need a lesson in humility. They are our servants and representatives and its about fucking time they learnt that lesson.
Lol. Claudia Beamish is on the train opposite me right now.
Maybe I should ask her who her preference for deputy is.
It would be a tad rude as she is deep in conversation with a young constituent.
We can all rest assured she “didn’t finish work until 11 on Sunday” though.
Aye she didn’t forget the receipt for her ticket either.
Heard the 3 contenders on the wireless earlier, Boyack & Findlay talking about social justice.
Murphy spouting hate for the Yes campaign.
What we have here is the SNP hater and London’s man, Vs common sense and back to party basics.
London’s man has already won it, their publicity channel, the BBC, has told us so.
Attended my first SNP branch meeting last night. Alex Neil spoke well and answered many questions regarding the tactics moving towards GE 2015. One thing that took me by surprise was the anger, and in some cases hatred, that former Labour supporters expressed. Their determination to destroy Labour was paramount to them!
The annoited ‘would be leader’ does not have majority support and is not the favourite. Once again, London’s man doesn’t cut it in Scotland. Watch this space. Murphy set up to fail. Sidelined. Detested North and South of the border.
Sarwar and Milliband. People like people, who are like themselves. Two millionaires with a lot in common, except with the majority of the voters. Secrecy and lies. Westminster a cabel of crooks most of them should be in jail.
“Branch manager/Assistant manager”
A bit cheeky, but I like it.
The conceited thick Daily Record editor decide to run the ‘exclusive lie’ to put up sales, earn personal kudo. The opposite happened he has exposed his ignorance and destroyed his sales and his profession. Good riddance to a pathetic liar. His treachery has become to ‘News’ and more people will be sanctioned and die in Scotland because of the media total ignorance. Anything for money -the MSM. They are disgusting. Secrecy and lies.
How can they believe in social justice if they are members of the Labour/Unionist Party. It’s an oxymoron. A bunch of morons.
People should watch what they are saying about (confidential?) political meeting. The devil’s in the detail.
Especially the myth that (20% a load of complete nonsense) SNP members voted No.
SNP ‘voters’ will have voted No.
The way I see the three stooges:
The blind one won’t read/watch anything except MSM/BBC propaganda and ignore all correspondence except those that praise them. Their secretaries filter 99.9999% of all mail into file 13 leaving them with more time to watch and believe BBC propaganda.
The deaf one won’t listen to anyone in Scotland, the Scots are to be preached at.
The dumb one is actually sick with worry that they won’t be elected ever again anywhere.
Ken500 – the vote will be fixed to get Murphy into the top job – here I don’t get Morag upset!
Name and e-mail address of the indiviual who sent the e-mail to the Daily Record please. Will Murray Foote kindly make both available for public information?
Assistant TO the regional branch manager 🙂
Dugdale is getting stitched up. And too blinded by her own ambition to realise.
@Doug Daniel
‘Tutorial Fellow’ is the sort of thing you do during a postgrad degree for pin money. It’s not a real job or even a Teaching Fellow. I have a teaching fellowship on my CV, the tutoring/lab demonstrating went long ago once I got a proper job after graduating. They were childish things that got put away when I grew up. I was a tutor whore during my PhD, I had a family to support and my grant was less than the married dole. I got paid for tutoring from all sorts of people not just the department.
After my PhD I was expected to help out that way for brownie points and ‘experience’ only.
Could it be…. By not nominating someone that you know is a ‘dead cert’, a shoe in, it tells your comrades that you are in the ‘inner circle’ and already know that the decision is a foregone conclusion…
Only these who are not in the inner circle bothered to cast a vote for Branch Manager.
@ Sarah Boyack
Are you sure HS2 will be good for Scotland? Remember, KPMG admitted their scheme appraisal was lacking in scope and short on data. If you are certain, would you be kind enough to identify the mechanism by which improved connectivity between London and Birmingham, will do anything to enhance Scotland’s economy?
Does high-speed rail generate spillovers on local budgets?
Abstract
High-Speed Rail (HSR) infrastructure is costly and requires high investment during the construction and operation periods, which is mainly financed with public funds. This economic effort is seldom set off, which leads to subsidies with the money collected from public debt growth or tax pressure increases. The question that immediately emerges is whether the entrance of this new infrastructure generates economic spillovers at the local level and, consequently, improves local public budgets. To solve this question we use local data on economic activity, municipalities? characteristics and local financial data in Spain for the past decade (2001–2010). Our estimations by difference-in-difference analysis and using spatial data yield a general conclusion: when HSR comes to town, both local revenues and the local fiscal gap improve by mean 10% and 16%, respectively. These improvements primarily affect municipalities located within 5 km of an HSR station
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967070X14001243
@ Sarah Boyack
Really, really sure?
Efficiency and spatial equity impacts of high-speed rail extensions in urban areas
Abstract
Urban areas benefit from significant improvements in accessibility when a new high speed rail (HSR) project is built. These improvements, which are due mainly to a rise in efficiency, produce locational advantages and increase the attractiveness of these cities, thereby possibly enhancing their competitiveness and economic growth. However, there may be equity issues at stake, as the main accessibility benefits are primarily concentrated in urban areas with a HSR station, whereas other locations obtain only limited benefits.
HSR extensions may contribute to an increase in spatial imbalance and lead to more polarized patterns of spatial development. Procedures for assessing the spatial impacts of HSR must therefore follow a twofold approach which addresses issues of both efficiency and equity. This analysis can be made by jointly assessing both the magnitude and distribution of the accessibility improvements deriving from a HSR project.
This paper describes an assessment methodology for HSR projects which follows this twofold approach. The procedure uses spatial impact analysis techniques and is based on the computation of accessibility indicators, supported by a Geographical Information System (GIS). Efficiency impacts are assessed in terms of the improvements in accessibility resulting from the HSR project, with a focus on major urban areas; and spatial equity implications are derived from changes in the distribution of accessibility values among these urban agglomerations.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264275111001314
Perhaps a wee shufty at Schumpeter?
@ Sarah Boyack
Hope I’m not labouring the point.
Dr Matthew Niblett gives evidence to the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee
TSU Visiting Research Associate Dr Matthew Niblett gave evidence to the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee on the economic benefits of HS2 last week whilst Prof David Banister, along with two other TSU VRAs, Dr Geoff Dudley and Dr Moshe Givoni, submitted evidence to the same enquiry. “Academics are divided over the benefits likely to flow from HS2, particularly the extent to which the high speed railway scheme will kick-start regional economies…” says Paul Dale in the Chamberlain Files. Dr Niblett supported the Government’s view that HS2 would release much-needed capacity on existing rail routes and anticipated continuing growth in rail travel at the expense of journeys by car.
http://new.tsu.ox.ac.uk/people/mniblett.html
@ Jim Murphy
You were also pretty sure there were WMD in Iraq, weren’t you?
MP wants Iraq ‘threat’ published
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1854764.stm
@ CameronB Brodie
I recall that KPMG’s figures which they didn’t publish, showed that HS2 would cause a loss of approx £150 m to Aberdeen. Negligible benefit to anywhere else in Scotland. Does anyone other than Sarah Boyack really expect people to travel from Glasgow, get off at Birmingham, get into the next HS2 train whenever that arrives, travel on to London, and consider that a benefit?
Oops. BBC link courtesy of OllieGarkey.
Capella
“Academics are divided over the benefits likely to flow from HS2, particularly the extent to which the high speed railway scheme will kick-start regional economies…”
Although SB has claimed HS2 will be beneficial for Scotland, to my face, I’m afraid I have no idea what she believes. She is a Fabian, who often see thing differently to one another.
Welcome to… The Department for Transport
Kate Godfrey
Moving past the debate surrounding full employment, the amount of money being spent on HS2 could secure full housing, solving the great challenge of our generation in a single stroke. Is it appropriate to spend such a fabulous amount of money on any single project, when the construction risks are so ill-defined?
http://www.fabians.org.uk/welcome-to-the-department-for-transport/
Or from Nottinghamshire Fabians.
But times have changed; it’s Osborne who has been proved wrong, the economy has stagnated and the government has changed course. The £33bn set to be spent on High Speed Rail 2 is brilliant. Britain is set to move into the 21st Century; stimulating the economy for generations to come. It’s fitting that Andrew Adonis, Labour’s great driver on this, became the new chair of Progress in the same week HS2 becomes a reality.
http://nottsfabians.org.uk/britain-hs2/
And here is Mark Leonard, on a completely unrelated subject. 😉
One nation in the world: What is the left’s story on foreign policy?
It is time for the Labour party to tell a more positive story about what it wants for Britain in a changing world. The unifying theme should be an attempt to develop a rooted internationalism that seeks growth, fair rules, social cohesion and self-government in a world where power is flowing from the west to the east.
http://www.fabians.org.uk/what-is-the-lefts-story-on-foreign-policy/
Since when has One Nation ideology become left wing?
And just for a laugh, here’s the CBI’s response to Ed Ball’s speech to the Fabian Society.
“We don’t believe that introducing a 50p income tax rate is the right way to raise the money because this puts talented people off coming to the UK to invest and create jobs.”
http://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2014/01/cbi-responds-to-ed-balls-speech-to-fabian-society/
Egg man
53.4% decision maker.
Below average effort.
Price Waterhouse sponsorship?
Theyworkforyou
check it out.
Charles Edward
Right enough.
Name of donor: PriceWaterhouse Coopers LLP
Address of donor: 1 Embankment Place, London, WC2N 6RH
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Services of a research assistant (total value £54,250) shared with another MP from 10 March 2014 to 10 October 2014, to support me as Shadow Secretary of State for International Development.
Date of receipt: 10 March 2014
Date of acceptance: 10 March 2014
Donor status: limited liability partnership
(Registered 9 April 2014)
I thought thses were also interesting.
6. Overseas visits
Name of donor: Labour Friends of Israel
Address of donor: BM LFI, London W1N 3XX
Amount of donation (or estimate of the probable value): Benefits with a total value of £3,600, including flights and other transport with a total value of £1,220, and accommodation, food and drink with a value of £2,380. Some hospitality was also provided by the Israeli Government, Palestinian Authority, the British Embassy and the IDC Herzliya.
Destination of visit: Israel and the Palestinian territories
Date of visit: 29 September – 4 October 2013
Purpose of visit: Fact-finding visit, for myself and a staff member, to Israel and the Palestinian territories with defence and security focus. (Registered 25 October 2013)
8. Land and Property
Flat in London, from which rental income is received.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/140826/murphy_jim.htm