Don’t look back in anger
Apologies for the lack of posts today, readers – been working on a small practical project and getting into an argument with a No voter who might just be persuadable, among other things. But amid it all we stumbled across this on the BBC website.
It’s a 2011 interview with Noel Gallagher about the English riots. Gallagher was one of the cultural figureheads famously invited to Downing Street by Tony Blair during the short-lived “Cool Britannia” phase before the shine wore off the New Labour project.
“Running up to the last election I wasn’t going to vote, until my wife said ‘You’ve got to vote’, and I’ve got to say it’s the first time I’ve picked the most ludicrous thing on the list – some guy who was gonna dress as a pirate.
But the Labour Party have managed to prove themselves to be just as sleazy and horrible as we all know the Conservatives are. There’s nothing left to vote for any more.“
We empathise. But there’s still one part of Britain where that’s not true.
Was this given headline treatment in 2011 – I doubt very much it was, but it sure paints a picture of a rotten political system, where a social communicator such as this guy can first of all say screw voting and then when persuaded to do other, gives his X to a clown candidate.
Each and every week, without fail we have our own selection of buffoonery to ‘enjoy’ from Lamont, Davidson and riseable Rennie, which, by any assessment achieves absolutely ziltch for their constituents, but which seriously demeans the Parliament that we’re paying them to attend. The Presiding Officer has been far too lax on disgraceful conduct and it’s oh so typical that these low-life politicos continue to abuse her laxity.
Given the attitude displayed in his comment of 2011, Noel Gallagher has no personal compulsion to participate in voting and it’s surely a minor miracle that we in Scotland have enervated our own young to get involved. Boy, oh boy, there’s a helluva shock coming No camps way!
“enervated our young to get involved”? Autocorrect playing up?
Can anyone point me to a succinct list (or an article) which lists all the assets Scotland would utilise to become the wealthy country that it should be under Independence?
e.g. Oil, gas, whisky etc
Good to hear Nicola talk about Westminster Governments failures-not just tories.
Part liked the bit about the UK being the 4th most unequal state in the developed world-UN 2009. Yes in 2009 before Cameron and Osbourne took over, after many years of Labour rule.
Seasick Dave:
Something like this?
link to scotland.gov.uk
@Seasick Dave
The abilities and skills of her people…
Above all else and an enduring asset for all time henceforth …
Seasick Dave whisky already alone accounts for a third of all UK food and drink exports so not a bad start, how about some of the finest beef pork and lamb, did you ever watch Trawlermen where Jimmy Buchan lamented the fact that most of his catch of prawns went to Europe so we can add fishing to the list. Mackie’s export their crisps to the far east among others, Walkers shortbread is the same I believe and I dare say many small producers do likewise.
How about some day perhaps water to the overcrowded south, a major challenge I agree but it may become necessary in the future, how about power generated by our renewables. Alot of companies in this area export their expertise and people to oil and gas sites globally, many of my friends from school often post on FB from far flung places.
I read a couple of weeks ago that millions of pounds in fines levied in Scotland go to the treasury, ok granted not an ideal source of income but better in our pocket than their one.
Tourism, people come here to explore and enjoy the mountains, golf, castles etcetera etcetera!
One thing perhaps someone could clarify, the like of Tesco who take in millions in sales and pay a lot in taxes on profit and for their employees, is this counted as Scottish revenue or UK because they are headquatered in England?
I am sure there are many more sources of income and remember we only have to sustain a population of just over 5 million.
I had in mind an article which I’m sure I read fairly recently which summarised our assets to show how we were far from too wee and too poor to proceed past the front gate on our own.
(Lost count of how many times I’ve posted this quote to various blogs, but it’s the second time I’ve posted it to WoS – I don’t know if George Rosie is still alive, but would love to know if he ever expanded upon this ‘meeting’.)
The following is from the introduction (pxxxv), by Peter Kravitz, to The Picador Book of Contemporary Scottish Fiction (1997):
‘While travelling around Scotland in 1995, the journalist George Rosie had a chance meeting with a senior English civil servant from Whitehall. As they sat in a hotel overlooking Ben Loyal and the hills of Sutherland, Rosie asked him why English governments have been so unwilling to hand Scotland back to the Scots. The official ticked the reasons off on his fingers: ‘One, oil. Two, gas. Three, fish. Four, water. Five, land. The oil and gas are self-explanatory, even now. Fish might not mean much to the British, but it is a superb bargaining counter in Europe. Water will be important one day, I suspect. And as for all this (gesturing to the hills) well, this is our, how shall I say it, breathing space. That little bit of elbow room that every country should have.’
So there ye go! That’s what ‘Scotland’ is, for some people – a ‘little bit of elbow room’.
“That’s what ‘Scotland’ is, for some people – a ‘little bit of elbow room’.”
Lebensraum, you might call it…
Godwin!
@Rev Stu
Was just reading your Twitter page, and came across this quote from Neil Kinnock in the 1970s (you commented on it). This one is a proper Godwin…
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Mr Neil Kinnock (Bedwellty)
“The hon. Gentleman is the tenth SNP Fascist who has spoken in the debate.”
If your employer is registered in England and so your Tax Centre is in England then your income tax will be credited to England? just like the income tax on my company pension?
Employees of the BBC? “Scottish” Labour? British(Scottish) Gas? British Telecom? Vehicle Road Fund licenses of these organisations?
Corporation tax on companies based in Aberdeen, but registered in England?
Every little bit helps.
Lest you forget. Perfidious Albion.
Peter,
Just to pick up on Supermarket chains etc.
I work as an IT manager for one of the “big five”. The corporation tax etc for these compainies accrues to the region their registered office is within the UK. These are all in England bar none.
If Scotland were to account for say £2 billion of their respective business then under independence the corporation tax etc would accrue to the Scottish chancellor as these compainies would need to register in Scotland. That would potentially be another £1 billion a year in Scotlands pocket rather than Westminsters.
This is another side to the story that unionists conveniently do not tell you about.
And before any bitter together goons post shit about Tesco, Sainsbury’s Morrisons, Asda or The Co-operative pulling out of Scotland after independence; I should explain that Scotland accounts for roughly 10% of their total UK revenue.
No business will walk away from a sizeable chunk of revenue FACT! IT WONT HAPPEN!
And just to add. The tax office for my empoyer is in England too. I imagine my income tax and many thousands like me is accrued to the region it’s collected in down south too rather than Scotland.
The more you peel away the layers the more you see is accrued south of the border.
The GERS figures show Scotland more than paying her way but the accruals above that I suspect aren’t in the GERS figures would in reality boost them even further.
We are more financially sound than the rest of the UK. Any economist worth his / her salt will tell you that.
@rabb-
Sounds like you know yer onions mister.
That’s what we need. People who KNOW what they’re on about – not bottons and buffoons with swingometers and crystal-balls.
More power to ye.
Cheers.
rabb,
Thanks for that. I might be talking total mince, but, if GERS does not adjust for that it isn’t worth the paper it is printed on, is it?
Maybe just as well they don’t know. It wouldn’t look good for it to be too out of balance. As it is, we’re just ahead enough to make independence look like a reasonable choice.
Once we get there, I look forward to a better nation in an awful lot of ways.
Morag,
When Clinton said ‘it’s the economy stupid’ I think he meant that the party that could credibly argue more money in your pocket would win. I think, sadly, that this debate will come down to that. If rabb is right, and I have no reason to think he isn’t, then it is an additional arguement in our favour.
Douglas,
I don’t know the mechanics of how the GERS figures are compiled but I cannot see how my tax contribution each month can be fully quantified in Scottish GERS figures. My income tax was paid at source to HMRC in England.
My personal opinion is that GERS only accounts for tax contributions paid at source in Scotland.
This would mean that the GERS figures (technically 100% correct on tax raised in Scotland)don’t paint a true reflection and therefore underestimating just how much tax is REALLY contributed by Scotland.
GERS is 100% accurate about what’s taken in at source in Scotland and what’s spent in Scotland. The current figures cannot be disputed. It’s a worse case scenario if you will.
What annoys me is that in all likelihood we are in even greater shape than the public realise (Scottish govenment likely know this but can’t publish for obvious reason).
Oil & Gas is just the icing on a very financialy viable cake. It’s not the millstone round our necks that the unionists parties & Bitter Together paint it as. It’s an absurd argument.
The price of oil is volitile in one direction only……..UP.
For anyone who is still in doubt about the economics.
Ask yourself this:
The UK government knows more about the financial health of Scotland than even the Scottish Government do. They have GERS figures as well as “other revenue”.
If we are the basket case that the Better Together campaign clam we would be under independence, why doesn’t the UK government just disclose these “figures” now, put the matter to bed and cancel the referendum?
Answer:
They can’t. Scotland is a resource rich nation being bled dry to fuel an already over heating economy in the South East.
Lose Scotland – Lose the cash cow!
That’s the long & short of it.
Does anyone know how the Crown Estates revenue is divvied up, or does it all go on the U.K. balance sheet? Similarly VAT, I would assume that VAT gathered in Scotland would be credited to Scotland, can anyone confirm?
And just while I’m here, there must be cabinet minutes now available from around the time of the McCrone report, I’m sure they would make very, very interesting reading indeed? Anyone heard or seen anything regarding this?
Stuart,
As far as I am aware Crown Estates revenue goes to the Treasury. I have no idea about VAT etc. but you may be interested in this if you haven’t come across it before
link to inchbrakie.tripod.com
Stuart – here is another link to siol-nan-gaidheal.org
Hi Laura. I know the Crown estate goes in its entirety to the Treasury, I was just wondering if the Scottish proportion appears on the Scottish revenues, as opposed to being lumped in with the U.K. revenue balance?
Thank you very kindly for the links, I will have a read through them.
Laura, I have seen the Jappy piece before, very interesting anyway, especially the revelation ‘before oil’. The Great Deception will keep me occupied for a while, and looks as if the answers to my questions above may well be found here. It’ll have to be later though, still at work :-).
Thanks again…
Once you understand the ‘equity’ of Scottish oil and gas, you understand it’s true value. The remaining reserves are the same as Scotland having 1.5 trillion in a long term account, which cannot be all taken out at once, but it still does exist.
That equity gives any economy more clout than it would otherwise have. This is why London wants to hang on to Scotland.
I get angry, really angry when I see the likes of Darling (who KNOW the truth) appearing to suggest that the oil isn’t really so valuable or could be a liability. The truth is, that the notion that the oil and gas is a liability to Scotland, but an assett to ‘UK’, is frankly stupid.
Never forget, that according to the UK oil and gas annual reports, the Scottish oil and gas industry regularly provides more than one quarter of total UK corporation tax. No wonder London will say just about anything in order to deceive the people of Scotland.
Just yesterday, Eddie Mair on the BBC, suggested the SNP were trying to sell a ‘pig in a poke’, when they talk of the oil wealth. The BBC really are a modern day ‘parcel of rogues’ in Scotland.
We have in our own small family way tried to “boycott” anything English and might attract VAT and income to the english treasury. What is the position with all of us shopping at Lidl and Aldi? Surely the profits will go to Germany and not to the recipients of our broken pay packet of our dear neighbours .
However I am sure that Lidl and Aldi will be more attentive to paying any tax due in the UK within the UK, and not anywhere offshore.
Or is Lidl just a joke for Waitrose incomed comedians?
I noticed that also in an aside here on this site. am not proud about ma messages.I did see this being done in Eire 30 years ago with the “Guaranteed Irish Boycott”.
Every Little Helps.
Semus,
I can appreciate your stance on buying Scottish, however, it isn’t just us that are affected by money crossing borders.
Take Arriva for instance. Partly (possibly wholly) owned by the German government. They run a network of trains in England and buses in Scotland. The profits from this concern go to the German exchequer and ploughed back into their “state owned” transport system.
Yo win some you lose some!
I personally don’t boycott any product based on origin. After all, I’m partial to a bit of Wensleydale, and Mrs SS likes cider; if we don’t have some French cider to hand, then West Country is good. Then of course there’s French wine…
However, I do make all efforts to buy locally produced food, be this meat, fish/shellfish, vegetables, dairy, cheeses, beer etc. For one this supports the local economy and two the idea of e.g. buying potatoes shipped hundreds of miles from Jersey is ludicrous when they grow so well in East Lothian.
I find Tesco rather helpful in clearly labelling everything Scottish as such, although I do try to use the local butcher and fruit/veg shop as much as possible.
Stuart, revenues from the Coastal Communities Fund initially goes in its entirety to Westminster. They retain 50% and ‘divvy’ up the rest based, I think, on population. This seems absurd given that we have some 8.4% of population but, have 59.26% of the coastline. I.e.
Scotland has 11,550 miles of coastline
Wales has 1,680 miles of coastline
England has 6,261 miles of coastline
From the last round of revenue dispersal of the Coastal Communities Fund, Scotland received £4m of the £46.4m collected.
I could be wrong, but assume that Crown Estate revenues are calculated on a similar basis i.e. headcount.
On VAT, the calculations are somewhat onerous as it takes account of local government refunds (local governments recieve a full VAT refund on all expenditure) and therefore VAT revenues are offset against these refunds, revenues relating central government VAT costs are based on the population percentage and, all other VAT revenues are calculated based on data from the Expenditure and Food Survey and again, offset against expenditure.
Basically, as far as I can see, by ‘offsetting’ revenues against expenditure, we get nowt!
dmw42 – thanks for that.
I suppose the long and short of it is that an independent Scotland would be considerably better off once we are rid of Westminster and their creative accounting.
We must all remember that the original intention of GERS was to prove that Scotland was not financially viable on it’s own. It has backfired on Westminster!!
The calculations may have been revised since it’s inception but I reckon we are even more well off than GERS suggests.
To me (and its only my personal opinion) the GERS figures are a “worse case snapshot” of our economy. It is healthier than even GERS suggests I reckon.
Scotland has the potential to put every country in Europe to shame (even the nordic countries). We are sooooo resource rich, and have a global brand that anyone would be proud of.
O/T but my vision would be for the following:
1. Proper funded state childcare provision to allow parents better access to the work market (I benefited from a state nursery place in the 70’s).
2. Free education from nursery to university.
3. More investment in the NHS.
4. Protection of universal benefits.
These are all affordable for a population of 5.4 million given the massive resources we have behind us.
When we factor in NI contributions as well as income tax I am already paying around 36% of my salary to the state.
I have absolutely no issue with paying more in tax in an independent Scotland if it means our children are given the best start in life possible and given every opportunity to reach their full potential in life.
It does sound a bit cliche but the kids are the future movers and shakers of our country. It’s in everyone’s interests that we throw everything (including the kitchen sink) at them to allow them to thrive.
Of course we could vote No and get none of the above. Just more austerity, cuts and attacks on the already diabolical levels of child poverty in Scotland.
That vision is ours for the taking on Sep 18th 2014!!
Rabb, I couldn’t agree more. It’s not about the selfish ‘here and now’, it’s about our future generation’s ‘when and how’.
I wonder if we could get all those shamans who do horoscope predictions to have everyones horoscope for 18/9/14 saying ‘you have been given an opportunity to change your life, be positive and sieze it with both hands’.
@dmw42 – Thanks for that, kind of confirms where I’m coming from, which is a belief that we’re actually a lot better off than we are being told, as Laura and Rabb point out.
Shocking though that people like Darling and his ilk must know this, and still obfuscate and scaremonger, Better Together might actually be true – but for the U.K. not Scotland.
Perhaps someone could help me here. I have a unionist friend (lovely person, just a real hard case) She seems to think that people on full benefits is equal to £26K a year. (she has a neighbour who is a single mother, unemployed, ‘disabled’ with council house, car etc all paid for by the state. I really just want to prove to her she is talking mince, but really have no idea what the total of full benefits would be.
@Laura
Surely any shortcomings of the UK benefits system can only be the responsibility of the UK government. Your friend is actually denouncing the union!
I suppose you have to ask, what’s her question? The Westminster government currently decides how much benefit her neighbour is entitled to, and pays it. Is she worried that an independent Scotland would not be able to go on paying these benefits to people in need? Because if so, that’s nonsense and can be shown to be nonsense by going through the economic argument for independence.
If that’s not what she’s concerned about, what is she concerned about?
Albert & Morag, thank you.
ho ho, wait until I tell her that one, she will take a fit for sure.
Anyway she seems to think that everyone on welfare is a subsidy junkie and Scotland is full of them (have to admit she does live beside a few)
@Laura
“Anyway she seems to think that everyone on welfare is a subsidy junkie and Scotland is full of them (have to admit she does live beside a few)”
Then she should be happy to have the union shot of them after 18.9.2014, then.
sorry for the late reply but thanks rabb.
Laura,
Just remind her that £26K is small beer when compared to your local £68K subsidy junkie that sits in Westminster pretending that they care about you I.
The fact is that Scotland only spends a paltry 5.3% of GDP on welfare (2011 figures)
We are really not the subsidy junkie nation painted by the unionist parties.
Source:
2011 Scottish GDP (including oil & gas share) £150billion
link to scotland.gov.uk
2011 Welfare spend £8billion
link to ukpublicspending.co.uk
If you look at it as a percentage of public spending then it comes out as follows:
England: 17% of total spent.
Scotland: 15% of total spent.
Wales: 16% of total spent.
N Ireland: 11% of total spend.
Source: link to ukpublicspending.co.uk
The figures above show England & Wales as the top spenders on welfare and not Scotland.
It is also worth noting that as far as I am aware, welfare is is devolved to the NI assembly and not controlled directly from London as it is here.
Rabb, Many thanks for the info. I’m not very politically savvy and need the a,b,c index.
If I can persuade this one lady, then I promise you indy will be a dawdle!
Laura says:
25 March, 2013 at 9:12 pm
Rabb, Many thanks for the info. I’m not very politically savvy and need the a,b,c index.
If I can persuade this one lady, then I promise you indy will be a dawdle!
Show her this Laura
link to organizedrage.com
@Laura
If you want to burst myths, this is very useful
link to newsnetscotland.com