Devo Nano no-show a-go-go
Alert readers can’t have failed to spot that we’ve been devoting quite a bit of attention on Wings to Labour’s devolution proposals, chiefly because they’re by default the closest thing to the “more powers” option that’s so conspicuously missing from the referendum ballot paper at the insistence of the Unionist parties.
We’ve established that the party itself doesn’t seem to have the foggiest idea what its own proposals are, and we’re still in the process of trying to get to the bottom of it. But as our latest Panelbase poll was “in the field” fairly hot on the heels of the launch of the “Devo Nano” paper, we thought we’d see what the Scottish people made of it.
———————————————————————————————————
Q: At its recent conference the Labour Party announced its proposals, called “Powers for a Purpose”, to extend devolution (in the event of a No vote) if Labour wins the UK general election in 2015. Are you aware of these proposals?
Yes: 49%
No: 51%
Ooft. Breaking down those Yes responses raised a smile, though:
Yes, I am aware of the proposals:
SNP voters: 63%
Conservative voters: 59%
Liberal Democrat voters: 56%
Labour voters: 47%
———————————————————————————————————
Yes, you’ve read that right – despite the plans being revealed at the Scottish Labour conference, Labour was the only party for which less than half of its supporters said they’d heard of them.
We then asked a follow-up question, only to respondents who had answered yes. Firstly we asked whether people had seen the document itself (either a physical copy or online), rather than just hearing about it in the media. A mere 5% of people who’d heard of the report said they’d actually seen it, in which light we’d invite readers to view the following responses.
———————————————————————————————————
Q: Which of the following statements regarding the proposals would you personally agree with? (Tick as many as apply.)
– I fully or mostly understand the proposals: 17%
(Lab 20%, Con 18%, LD 17%, SNP 15%)
– I think the proposals are coherent and well thought out: 10%
(Lab 22%, LD 6%, SNP 5%, Con 1%)
– I think the proposals go far enough: 13%
(LD 26%, Lab 19%, Con 13%, SNP 7%)
– I think the proposals DO NOT go far enough: 29%
(SNP 38%, Lab 31%, LD 9%, Con 7%)
– The proposals make me more likely to vote Yes to independence: 10%
(SNP 15%, Lab 8%, LD 2%, Con 0%)
– The proposals make me more likely to vote No to independence: 10%
(Con 17%, Lab 13%, SNP 7%, LD 6%)
– The proposals have not changed my opinion on independence: 48%
(Con 60%, SNP 51%, LD 51%, Lab 41%)
– I believe the proposals would be implemented in the event of a No vote: 16%
(LD 27%, Lab 24%, Con 19%, SNP 10%)
– I DO NOT believe the proposals would be implemented after a No vote: 34%
(SNP 47%, LD 28%, Lab 25%, Con 16%)
———————————————————————————————————
Readers may have noticed several things from that data:
1. That the number of Labour voters who thought the plans were “coherent and well thought-out” was higher than the number of Labour voters who claimed to “fully or mostly understand” them. We’ll just leave that one there.
2. That although only 7% of Tory voters didn’t think the plans went far enough, the Tories are being widely tipped to offer a more extensive increase in tax powers when their Strathclyde Commission publishes its report in May.
3. That Lib Dems are surprisingly reluctant to see Holyrood get stronger powers.
4. That more Labour voters believe “Devo Nano” would NOT be implemented in the event of a No vote than believe it would, a trait they share with supporters of all the other parties. The Lib Dems actually have the most faith in it ever happening.
Curiously, the exact same percentage of Yes and No voters (17%) thought the plans WOULD be implemented, but the numbers saying they WOULDN’T differed radically, at 42% of Yes and 24% of No. Just 1% of Yes voters said the plans made them more likely to vote No, and not a single No voter said they’d nudged them closer to a Yes.
We’re putting that down as “not a game-changer”, then.
You might want to correct the last line? (SNP 47%, LD 28%, Lab 25%, Lab 16%). Unless Labour get to vote twice of course? Nothing would surprise me now seeing those results above!
“You might want to correct the last line? (SNP 47%, LD 28%, Lab 25%, Lab 16%).”
YOU MUST BE EMBARRASSINGLY MISTAKEN.
Devo Nano is just a “wee thing” …
– I fully or mostly understand the proposals: 17%
(Lab 20%, Con 18%, LD 17%, SNP 15%)but they don’t make any sense so somebody’s fibbing.
“the Tories are being widely tipped to offer a more extensive increase in tax powers when their Strathclyde Commission publishes its report in May”
Devo nano from Labour is obviously a con job, clearly jam tomorrow. How will the Tories respond? — I predict they won’t mention oil revenues either.
Geri Spice is probably the single best thing ever to happen to a Union flag.
Perfect Topic Titles – 99%
Inclusion of humour in titles – 90%
Inclusion of sarcasm in titles – 75%
Inclusion of satire in titles – 60%
Titles that made you want read the topic – 90%
Labour are offering jam tomorrow. The Tories will offer marmalade tomorrow – presented by Paddington Mundell.
Yes, you’ve read that right – despite the plans being revealed at the Scottish Labour conference, Labour was the only party for which less than half of its supporters said they’d heard of them.
Lambs to the slaughter springs to mind.
– I think the proposals are coherent and well thought out: 10%
(Lab 22%, LD 6%, SNP 5%, Con 1%)
Glasgow Comma Scale?
– I think the proposals go far enough: 13%
(LD 26%, Lab 19%, Con 13%, SNP 7%)
The Liberal Democrats are more conservative thean the Conservatives???
– I think the proposals DO NOT go far enough: 29%
(SNP 38%, Lab 31%, LD 9%, Con 7%)
Come on traditional Labour supporters, release the beast, release the beast.
The last three stats show just what meaningless piffle the whole “Powers for a Purpose” project was. Mushroom farmers the lot of them. Grrrr.
No disrespect meant to mushroom farmers.
I wonder if this will ever be reported by the BBC or see the light of day in the Scottish newsprint?
link to screen.yahoo.com
Alex Salmond was given the full treatment by the Wall Street Journal this morning in New York. I believe the entire programme was devoted to him and normally it is a panel of people or two opponents of a particular policy. I wonder Lord Robertson was offered the chance and declined.
He came over very well.
Bugger (the Panda
Why not chuck the link into Off-topic, for posterity? Mind and let folk know what it is.
1. That the number of Labour voters who thought the plans were “coherent and well thought-out” was higher than the number of Labour voters who claimed to “fully or mostly understand” them. We’ll just leave that one there.
The above question and response by Labour supporters really does say it all.
O/T
Did anyone watch Scotland Tonight last night?
Labour man Brian Wilson was a guest and during his interview he mumbled something about being involved in a Scottish Independence debate tonight in America.
Does anyone have any more details about that debate. Where and when is it happening. TA!
The mere mention of devo nano makes my head hurt.If your own party doesn’t get the proposals,then no one will.It’s because they are unworkable and aimed at hamstringing a Parliament they cannot win.
Maybe a cheeky wee question as to what those who understood the proposals particularly liked about the plans would have been fun to ask.The proposals are cataclysmic.I can’t wait for the Strathclyde report comedy coming up.
@Cameron B
Done it, interview know posted off topic section.
Thanks
BtP
seen this on STV site, but didn’t make the news -:
link to news.stv.tv
David Torrance MSP was assaulted in a pub while having a discussion about independence!
Had a wee smile to myself. The thought just popped into my head that Lord Robertson’s use of the term, “cataclysmic”, was very likely, “catachrestic”.
Anyone know what has happened to Bella Caledonia site?
@msean
it was down, but is back up!
@Robert Peffers
Yes, his use of cataclysmic was fragrantly catchrestic.
Yes I looked it up.
@themadmurph, “it was down, but is back up!”
Nope! Back down again now!
From the WHOIS record:
“Expiry date: 08-Mar-2014”
Bella needs to renew the domain name. The month’s grace is up.
Fine for me, though they’re still on their hols.
Very detailed poll Rev, as per usual.
I think that while the undecided can be persuaded to vote YES, I also think that a large number of the NO vote can persuaded to vote YES.
They are almost similar in their objections to voting YES.
When you find out exactly what is holding them back from voting YES, it doesn’t take much explaining to turn them to a YES.
To prove my point, just look at the number of voters that have came from NO to YES in the last month or two alone.
Many of them have joined this website and are now 100% behind a YES vote.
So although we want the un-decided voter, the NO voters are also willing to change to a YES with a little more information and re-assurances that it is for a brighter future for Scotland and their family.
Discussion with health centre receptionist who asked about my ‘Yes’ badge. She doesn’t like Salmond, worries about the pound and worries the Scots would make a mess of things.
Chatted about it not being a vote for a party, anyone could use the pound and why, and the mess WM have made contrasted with Swinney’s balanced budgets.
But it would be nice to give her something concise and easily readable to send her off on the right track. She gets her info from the MSM, not sure if she’s web savvy.
Is there anything out there I could get a hold of before middle of next week?
Ta.
David Torrance not attacked or assaulted but ‘attacked’ and ‘assaulted’ according to STV. Shameful use of quotation marks.
Bella on twitter say nothing sinister, just some spring cleaning
Anyone else seen this. Seems they are not content with stealing from Scotland over decades.
link to scottishconservatives.com
According to bella twitter – the site is down for a ‘spring clean’.
George Robertson thinks he is a bit of an American cowboy in the Wild West. His Colt45 is the Trident Nuclear Missile.
He struts the globe lookin for somebody to fire his gun at.
Him and his big pal, the USA.
So, if you take his Nuclear Missile off him, then he is like the old gunslinger who has had his Colt45 taken from him.
He starts to panic and becomes abusive to the people who have taken his weapon, he doesn’t get his way and eventually crawls into a dark corner, never to be heard of again.
Tonight, a 90 minute independence debate in front of a 100 strong audience will be live streamed from the Lower Eastside Club, Manhattan, New York via the Scottish social networking site KILTR.
Live Streamed on KILTR.com/nycdebate 8.30 – 10pm BST
link to kiltr.com
Participants
Albert Watson, international Scottish photographer based in New York
Brian Wilson, chairman of the Harris Tweed Hebrides company
Pollyanna McIntosh, Scottish actor
Louise Linton, Scottish actor
That’s 8:30pm tonight.
Been saying for months, once the EU elections are done the tories will go to the English and the English press. we can no longer continue to support Scotland and the will dump Better together and labour will have a massive problem.
Aberdeen’s famouse google streetview “HorseHead” reappears, to campaign.
Aberdeen’s YESer’s gather to “HorseHead”.
If Brian Wilson is attending a debate in the USA, I hope it will be in New York where he’ll be able to stay in his apartment in Manhattan. Which will be nice for him. It’s nice to see how well the FRUMPs (Formerly Radical Upwardly Mobile Politicians) have done for themselves. Better Together!
Regarding violence for or against there are no good guys.History of the effects of violence in for example twentieth century Europe shows unintended consequences.The Baader Meinhoff saw any violence aided their cause. The victims,the good guys ,suffered political consequences unfairly. It was all to do with public reaction to chaos. So the NO nutters could win either way.
The perfect response was demonstrated by the YES people at Wester Hailes;politeness and self control in the face of an ugly and violent agitator.
It is unfair but we gain little by advertising violence so Nicola Sturgeon was correct in her low key response.
Roboscot
To be fair to STV, if an offence may have been committed and criminal charges may follow, the quotation marks around “attacked” and “assaulted” are necessary. Otherwise the paper or broadcaster would be guilty of convicting a person before they have had a trial.
The quotation marks don’t mean STV doubts the veracity of the MSP’s reported assault. It just means they don’t want to prejudice a police investigation and a possible legal case.
A question and an observation:
1] For the people who answered the supplementary questions after saying ‘YES’ they’d heard of the DevoNano proposals, are the percentages of the total respondents, or just of those who said yes (49%)
eg I fully or mostly understand the proposals: 17% 17/100 or 17/49 Is that clear?
2] The total for YES/heard of proposals is 49%. Yet the breakdown shows the Labour voters as the lowest at 47% and the other pretty much higher. Were there a helluva lot of Labour voters in the poll? Surprised it’s not higher particularly with SNP at 63%.
I suppose all will be clear with the tables
msean says:
Anyone know what has happened to Bella Caledonia site?
O/T
The site is totally down at the moment. I was on the site last night and they said they were having a wee Easter break, but didn’t say the site would effectively become non existent.
Regards devo nono I just do not believe one tiny minuscule word that the bt lot say, it seems like a decoy to what really is on the table, vote yes for Independence or get the lifeboats out cos they will be needed in Scotland for sure if it is a no.
G H Graham
Excellent bit of tracking down there. Well done sir. I couldn’t find it anywhere.
Will have a look at it and see what Mr Wilson says about his country.
From the number of proclaimed “severe blows to Scotland’s ambitions for self-governance” one would think the victim beaten to a pulp and long buried, yet it’s still fighting fit.
Unchallenged by Mr Marr on internal divisions and confusions, let alone absence of inter-party consensus, likelihood of delivery or ‘permanence’ of the pro-union crumbosal foam, Mr Darling still tries to convince us that there are ‘more powers on offer,’ Mr M. Campbell says that there is ‘no democratic deficit’ (after a botched referendum to amend the voting system, iraq and more than 2 decades of conservative rule) and Mr Robertson gazes into his crystal ball to declare that not only does Scotland not suffer any ‘disadvantage’ (readers with experience or knowledge of child or fuel poverty look away now), but that a global cataclysm will befall planet earth should we vote YES. However, we can read for ourselves dear sirs, and despite Mrs Lamont’s forays into genetic science, we can also think and understand for ourselves. Your insults to our intelligence will be answered on 18 September with a majority YES vote and you will all have to reconcile yourselves to an alternative career. Even allowing for your admirable levels of dedication and repetition, do not underestimate the rigorous high standards required in the entertaining world of REGURGITATION – as this video of a Scotsman living abroad demonstrates. NB Viewers will be rewarded with a novel solution to the problems of cross-border currency transfers. Kids should not try this at home! link to facebook.com
Famous15
I don’t want to cause a stushie of go too O/T, but there is mounting evidence to suggest the Baader-Meinhof Gang and later Red Army Faction*, were a part of NATO’s Operation Gladio.
I won’t post a link, for obvious reasons.
* The Red Army Faction was not disbanded until 1998.
@hetty, thanks for info.
@Donald, “Is there anything out there I could get a hold of before middle of next week”?
The Rev gave us a real good one this week, Donald. On the right of the site page is a column of recent topics. Click on, “The Historical Debt”, and open up the article. Then right click on each graphic in turn and select Save picture as. Save off as a jpg or bmp file. Print out for your receptionist. I handed a copy of the two files to a NO supporter I’ve been debating with for months. He emailed me a couple of hours ago asking for more information and saying that if Scotland has always been that well off he was going to vote YES.
Long time lurker/admirer, first time commenter.
Huge congrats on Wings being in the Top 50 list for journalists in social media on http://www.pressgazette.co.uk – a well deserved place.
following Bugger (the panda)’s link to the WSJ interview on Yahoo, there’s quite a few other excerpts from the interview on the WSJ site itself – would be good to see the whole thing in one video though, difficult to get a feel for it all cut up into segments:
link to online.wsj.com
Aberdeen’s famous google streetview “HorseHead” reappears and joins the campaign.
Made a Wings.com TShirt and HorseHead mask.
Lets fotobomb and flashmob them.
Lets create media interest storm.
Bella is away for the week folks.
Lord George Robertson has urged Scots not to be selfish and to consider the fact that the referendum affects people outside of Scotland.
Do you think he means the ermine clad variety? Poor wee souls.
“Bella is away for the week folks.”
Strange? So is Derek Bateman.
Only joking.
Good article in the Guardian by Owen Jones
link to theguardian.com
O/T, here’s a link to an archive page of a useful article in today’s Financial Times: “English law cannot stop Scots being sterling squatters.”
link to archive.is
It really does make you wonder how Better Together can keep stating on its website, facebook page and on flyers etc that “The only way to keep the pound is to vote to remain in the United Kingdom.” Clearly a blatant lie. Can’t the Advertising Standards people force them to stop making such untrue claims?
O/T
KILTR Independence debate from NY. Started 8:30 only just got feed
link to kiltr.com
Panelists
Albert Watson
Brian Wilson
Louise Linton
Brian Hughes
Sound not great but interesting so far
Anyone know what time the space time continuum is due to unravel?
I bought popcorn and there’s not one decent film on.
@X_Sticks – I wonder if anybody has told Naughtie, he would probably body swerve it though to lick Lord Robertson’s cataclysmic arse.
Watching the debate from NY – who is the Barbie doll at the end – think she’s got her info from the BT website
Xsticks @ 21.10
Sorry Xsticks managed about as minute of listening to that blonde airhead telling us Scotland will not be able to rebalance the distribution of wealth without driving out all the industrialists and gave up.
Besides when I see Brian Wilson I want to punch my own face.
@John King – get yourself over to the NY debate on KILTR- Comedy Gold from some blonde lassie – no idea who she is but thank God she has a wee notepad to read her keek from
oops – see yer already there
For any undecided voters in the Falkirk area?
Dennis Canavan, Alex Neil and Shona McAlpine will be at the Westfield community centre (Bog Rd) on the 10/04/14 to answer any questions.
All welcome.
link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
Aberdeen’s famous google streetview “HorseHead” reappears and joins the campaign.
Made a Wings.com TShirt and HorseHead mask.
Lets fotobomb and flashmob BetterTogether’s & BBCSco shites.
Lets create media interest storm.
#SheepOnFire
Bobo Bobertson – lordy, lordy what a bloody grecian 2000 embarrassment of a yesterdays man. He does not speak for Scotland in any way – unelected sponger.
Who cares what crap this hasbeen comes outwith. When was the last decade this balloon was elected.
Christ sake BBC for this list, who outwith Labour die hards and BBC/ Labour Luvvies think any of this lot are respected in anyway in Scotland.
Robertson
Reid
Liddell
Oniell
Foulkes
(Ermine chasers / Socialsits?)
Brown
Darling
Wilson
(One mans ‘respected’ is another mans useless abject failure and embarrassment bounced out of office)
Cut the crap
Breaking news : There’s an A Bomb in Wardour St.! Mr Robertson is quoted by media at the scene, saying ‘I don’t know what I’m doing here.’ The whole world is pogo-ing into ‘cataclysmic overtones’ of oblivion and the Forces of Darkness mustered at Hadrian’s wall are quite taken by the lovely scenery. link to youtube.com
@gordoz
It gets better … the Daily Record informs me that these troughers are actually all SEMI-RETIRED. (c) Gordon Brown
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Owen Jones to be on BBC news 24 paper review @ 10.30 and with any luck he will discuss his Guardian article on the bullying and anti democratic NO campaign.
O/T
Tonights Chelsea game.. around 61 minutes in i *SWEAR* I heard what sounded like a French rendition of O Flower of Scotland from the French crowd.
If anyone has recorded the game can you confirm that I’ve not been snorting 10p bags of monster munch ?
FFS there at it again.
BBC > Lord BleeBla Blah blah blah says !
Who cares – HE LIED TO US ALONG WITH BLAIR – end of.
Ya Numpties
Just back from delivering Yes newspapers in a bunch of tenements in Edinburgh. Oh those aching thighs!
Met a young English lady from Women For Independence who told me they’ve just hired their first full time employee – who is also English!
@ Heather, 8:42pm, 8 April 2014
“Long time lurker/admirer, first time commenter.
Huge congrats on Wings being in the Top 50 list for journalists in social media on http://www.pressgazette.co.uk – a well deserved place.”
Welcome Heather and congratulations Stu! An achievement indeed.
@Heather 8:42
First – welcome to the fray!
I’m impressed that you managed to find the article and it is, indeed, a bit of an accolade for Stu. Wonder if he gets a badge or something
Don’t be a stranger
@X_sticks ta for link a great bit of Rap at c1hr 18mins from a guy N.Glasgow.
Just listened to Brian Wilson on the link from New York, how does he get away with this pish ?
He said the present Scottish govt. are determined to stay in power after independence. Does he not understand how democracy works? Whoever gets into power will be decided by the people of Scotland. According to Wilson there will now be a North Korea type of democracy without asking the people. Brian Wilson,you are a clown.
Do democracy loving US citizens realise this guy isn’t an elected official,but an unelected £300 a day kid on lord?
Kendo – I heard it too, had a wee chuckle at it.
Fleur de l’Ecosse?
@kendomacaroonbar….no, you have not been ‘snorting 10p bags of monster munch’ – the psg fans regularly sing their hymn of faithful devotion and pride to the ‘flower of scotland’ tune. i think they adopted the idea after the ’98 world cup in france, which brought thousands of scots fans to the capital for the opening fixture v brazil. it’s a particular favourite of the hardcore ‘boulogne boys’ stand at parc des princes, though you’ll be dismayed to learn that many of the same fans love nothing more than to make obscene monkey chants (cris de singe) towards opposing black players, shout ‘seig heil’ and give nazi salutes. those nauseating fellows don’t usually settle for snorting monster munch – many get stoned on cannabis during the game but still manage to coordinate numerous rocket launches onto the pitch and the odd fight among themselves. to be carefully avoided at all costs…from a former psg season ticket holder !
Giant WingsOverScotland Saltire flying over South Aberdeen, Duthie Park. Its a sign.
#SheepOnFire
ps. (up a tree)
@Betty Boop and @Jim T Thanks for the kind welcome guys. I’ll try not to be too much of a stranger.
As for tracking the accolade down, I also follow Phil Mac Giolla Bhain on Twitter so it was pretty easy given that it was put under my nose. I can take no credit for hunting it down. I just felt it worthy of congratulations for a fantastic job. I honestly wonder if Stu has a life outside of this page given the prolific nature of posting. A fantastic feat indeed!
CameronB
You could be closer to the truth than you realise but it does not alter the point I was making.
Nae stushie as I am only wishing to emphasise taking a cool response to trouble makers is the way to go.
I am surprised that anyone polled said they understood Labour’s Devo proposals. Maybe they were just too embarrassed to admit they didn’t.
O/T Just watched the disgraceful George Robertson waffling his way through Scotland Tonight interview. Not enough challenge by interviewer to explain how Scotland would have a “cataclysmic” effect on the world if independent.
He looked and sounded foolish. Interviewer reminded him that he said devolution would kill Scottish nationalism stone-dead. He said it done it yet!!! Methinks, no matter the result in September it will never go away.
Hi folks,
seems like it’s been a good day all round, really interesting stats from the poll analysis.
Lord Robertson with a timely intervention just to make sure BT don’t veer from the calamitous course they’ve set
BBC Scotland further sullying their relationship with the Scottish people and eroding a bit more of the trust that’s left for them.
Finally, hoping for a wee kick on with the Yes Saltire project. It has started well enough but really needs to maintain momentum to reach the required target. Any help would be very welcome.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/10-000-flags-for-yes–11/x/2353157
Famous15
Totally agree, slow and steady. I was only trying to point out that things are not always as they appear outwardly. Though if you want to start something….
@tartanpigsy
I bought one of your flags the other day, what is the delivery time.
And what is your fund for, do you have a “plan”.
The flags look good , lookin forward to getting it out flying high above the house.
caz-m
Hope your toes are feeling better.
@cameronB
Hi mate, ma toes are magic. There is a wee joke in there somewhere isn’t there.
caz-m
Not going there.
@Betty Boop
“If you think you understand Labour’s Devo proposals, you don’t understand Labour’s Devo proposals.”
(Abusing a quote on Quantum Mechanics)
STV tonight / Lord Bobo –
John Mackay is clearly just a news reader. Hopeless with Robertson (have to say compare with Brewer who challenged the whole premise of this out of touch dinosaur, and ridiculed the language used and the ‘whole end of days’ assessment). STV failing badly.
Who was the banana academic afterwards ?? What was he rattling on about ?? Cover of the book was the give away -nice clean UJack with jumbled mess of Saltire –
Oh dear we scots are thick and miss all the subliminal messages. Doohhh
@John Smith Maybe
Thank you for that. I’ve learned something new.
Robert Peffers; Ta for that. Been busy, or would have got back sooner. Somebody needs to get a little booklet out… (hint)!