Could they be related?
Posted on
May 01, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Our mole at "Better Together" HQ leaks another upcoming poster.
Great work, Anas "Agent X"!
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-26
- 04-26
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-24
- 04-24
- 04-22
- 04-20
- 04-20
- 04-18
- 04-18
- 04-17
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-12
- 04-11
- 04-10
- 04-09
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
seriously object to the ‘real Scots’ tag.
Why? It’s authentic “Better Together” speak.
Keeping with today’s theme. “you are a nasty misandrist” etc.
Thinning hair seems to be a trait among them.
– then I read the line at the bottom!
that’s why I don’t like it 🙂
One of them I believe is deceased. Will he be voting? 😉
“One of them I believe is deceased. Will he be voting?”
Remember the line from “1984” about an ideology imposed on the living by the dead? That.
@Marcia
Early and often.
The frames are nice.
Is it a rogue’s gallery, or an atrocity exhibition?
Francis Bacon would have a field day.
http://www.artbrokerage.co.uk/art/bacon/_images/bacon_51994_5.jpg
ianbrotherhood
I think there is a joke about Crimewatch UK and the gallery somewhere. Maybe Ms Calman could help us out here?
I am reminded of the words of our national Bard: “Sic a parcel o rogues in a nation”.
And baldy heided yins at that!
That’s another six Knighthoods in the bag following a NO vote in 2014.
Baxter & Flint look somewhat inbred or at least from a limited gene pool.
I bet Baxter is his own aunt Margaret 🙂
Where’s auldbaldies4indy when you need them?
Well, bang goes that favoured ‘Royal Game’ right off the shopping list!
Well, off goes the favoured ‘Royal Game’ – right off the shopping list!
I thought it was a movie poster for “Clone Wars” featuring Darth Chairchoob.
I thought this was only half the story.
Isn’t this just the gallery of bald guys BEFORE treatment. Where is the gallery of their photos AFTER treatment. 😆
Sorry, edit button issue.
It is revealing that the BT team uses such language – I for one wasn’t aware that there were different types of Scots: real, semi real, unreal?, half arsed………
BT uses exactly the sort of language that they suggest our side uses – the language of identity and division.
Those who identify themselves as ”Real Scots’ are usually those who have a kitschy view of Scotland – that Calman girl for instance is guaranteed to be 100% REAL Scot Double Plus with a cherry on top.
I seem to recall it started back in the early 90’s with the Daily Record producing bumper stickers: ‘I’m a Real Scot from Cambuslang’ – (I’m a brain dead labour voter with a reading age of 8 Brigadoon Twat from insert name of run-down west of Scotland shithole here’) Fairly handy in there own way though they were.
Which ones if any live in Scotland?
Albert Herring says:
2 May, 2013 at 12:46 am
“Where’s auldbaldies4indy when you need them?”
HERE (hand in air)
They are all in that unique little club called the Scottish Tories. Ironically, for rich successful men, they’re giving away their money to the most disastrous and discredited Chancellor of the Exchequer in living memory.
O/T The BBC are running a ‘too stupid’ story on the Hillman Imp. Billed as a ‘A Scottish car’ that ‘drove Linwood to disaster’ … the blame being put down to the unruly Scottish workers that didn’t know what they were doing which led to a flawed product. It’s laughably called an ‘Analysis’ which of course means the story is full of half-truths and sidelines actual events… ‘The debacle was the end of Scottish motoring’ says the piece while not even mentioning the politics of the day (1981) of de-industrialisation and the managed decline of Scotland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/22294640
Is it still legal to buy a peerage?
Are they starting auditions for a Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs panto early? Scoundrelly, Dopey, Soupy, Nutty etc.
As I’m sure she’ll be contributing free lacy underwear to the fight for the Union, Michelle Mone for the title role.
Better Together celebrating the act of union today.
Talking to themselves.
Saw the Yougov tables. Crappy wee survey. Probably cost a fiver. Very questionable weighting.
Holyrood voting intention was asked but not released. However a quick calculation suggest it looked like the last panelbase, i.e. much like May 11. If they asked Y/N, then they didn’t want people to see that either. Simple assumptions and you are looking at ~30% core support for No. Quelle surprise.
What’s hilarious is defence, the EU and currency – all thinks which have been used as sticks to beat Yes with – are all the least important factors for people. Instead it’s stuff like welfare and the economy that’s important.
Real Scots and humble benefactors, what a statement.
You’re only a real Scot if you support a union to the shit pile that is Westminster? Mind you when you’ve got a guy paying your way whose company deals quite happily with genocidal maniacs, just how fussy can you be? Not entirely sure I’d be happy owing favours post any no vote to a chap with that background. Still we are talking about people deliriously happy with Westminster government. Better Together leadership – really think about that for a moment. Most especially Messrs McDougall and Darling and tell yourself you feel safe in their hands or the thing they represent.
Hi there,
I liked my Hillman Imp. It was the first new car I owned. It cost £1,000 on the road with a full tank of petrol. Mind you, I had to get the sills welded for its first MOT and scrap it at 40,000 miles. In addition the blue metallic paint started to peel revealing the grey undercoat. It looked as though it had alopecia.
Still, you’re only young once.
Bunting well and truly out.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/943045_465403790209934_666220906_n.jpg
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
Followed by Land of Hope and Glory, then a rendition of Jerusalem with Blair McDongall as bass and Alastair Darling Tenor?
———
You’re only a real Scot if you support a union to the shit pile that is Westminster?
No, you are only a real Scot if you support Westminster rule, not the union/Britain specifically. That’s what the wee lad Sandy from Orkney will cry over – no more Westminster rule – if we vote No.
—
Oh, and another just 6 point lead for Labour on Yougov today…
But today is likely to be UKIP’s day. How appropriate given it is ‘UK’ union day.
Is there inverse relationship between the amount pledge and residence in Scotland , and therefore eligibility to vote in referendum. Sansom is resident in Sussex and Taylor, well does anybody know where he resides? Based on the money donated, if the relationship described above holds, I suspect he is a non-dom for Tax purposes.
@scottish_skier
‘Bunting well and truly out.’
Self awareness isn’t Better Together’s thing, is it? They don’t really see that while there may be lots of folk who think that the Union was on balance a good thing, reminding them that it’s based on an anachronistic, un-democratic, morally dubious treaty signed more than 300 years ago isn’t a positive.
The first question I would be asking is what is in it for them but I think most of us here know the answer to that question .
I am sure that Ian Taylor feels right at home amongst that parcel of rogues who are trying to prop up a failed state that invented the concentration camp and used famine as a weapon to keep the natives down .
Take a good hard look at their mug-shots ‘ these are the faces of the type of people who have been selling Scotland out since Scotland was born .
Thomas Dunlop:
I very doubt he is a non-dom as he was born somewhere in the UK and I assume is Father was resident in the UK for tax purposes at the time of his birth. If he is non-resident then he would stay in the UK for about 90 days in each tax year maximum. He could have 90 dinners with David Cameron or Brian Wilson. That would give me terrible indigestion.
Excellent article by MacWhirter in the Herald today – it sucks you in a bit at the beginning but then dumps all over the currency nonsense the Unionists have been trying to push.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/why-must-scotland-take-a-pounding-in-currency-row.20971556
This country is doomed.
Ive decided. It simply has no chance.
Just had 2 twentysomethings next to me talking..
“Oh holiday next week”
“Yeah, Queens birthday”
“Enjoy it while you can, wont happen after 2014”
“How?”
“Independence, she wont be Queen, shes Queen of United Kingdom, so Scotland leave it, no holiday”
“Awww…I don’t get aw that”
“Ah know, and she wont be on our notes, Bank of England wont let us use the Pound, we will have the Euro”
“Why we doing that, ah mean what did Independence ever do for Ireland!”
At this point I had to jump in with a “ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?” …the whole room turned!
These are folk working in banking….either banking or the country are doomed…I fear its both!
Desimond
These are perfect people to get your teeth into.
They are thinking of voting No for the feeblest of reasons; a Bank Holiday and the Queen’s coupon on your banknotes!
Point them in the direction here for a start and feed them lots of positive information while emphasising the major downside of a No vote.
Over to you 🙂
Hang on, these idiots were working on the assumption that there will be a Yes vote.
Don’t knock it.
Desimond says:
2 May, 2013 at 9:24 am
“Oh holiday next week”
“Yeah, Queens birthday”
“Enjoy it while you can, wont happen after 2014”
“How?”
“Independence, she wont be Queen, shes Queen of United Kingdom, so Scotland leave it, no holiday”
“Awww…I don’t get aw that”
“Ah know, and she wont be on our notes, Bank of England wont let us use the Pound, we will have the Euro”
Two points, even if what they were saying wasn’t factually incorrect.
1) I’ve a sneaking suspicion that we may get an ‘Independence Day’ holiday as a replacement if we vote yes.
2) I’ve had a look at the variety of denominations of notes in my (admittedly not bulging) wallet, and Lizzie doesn’t appear on any of them anyway.
Fear not folks…my despair has lifted following one of them responding with a “Thanks..I need the facts” after i sent them various links including the McWhirter currency piece above.
1 more person engaged…The Lena Martell Political Campaign continues!
In all seriousness, they’re right, who could argue with their description once you’ve heard them in action:
Ian Taylor
http://video.ft.com/v/1579338578001/Vitol-Oil-price-stubborn-short-term
Mark Tyndall
Who’s getting a holiday for the Queen’s birthday anyway? That’s news to me.
MajorBloodnok: “Excellent article by MacWhirter in the Herald today”
It is indeed a good article, and it neatly sums up the frustration many of us within the independence movement have about the SNP’s currency plans: “What annoys Mr Canavan and co is that the Scottish Government seems to want to be more Unionist than Better Together”
Canavan, the Scottish Greens, the Scottish Socialists and many others within the Yes Campaign want Scotland to have our own currency.
Now, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate – there are benefits to keeping the pound and to getting our own currency. But unfortunately one side of the debate isn’t being listened to and has no chance of getting its way.
I was chatting to a friend of mine the other day and we have never discussed politics before.
I mentioned how I would be voting yes because of the way the westminster government is moving towards extreme right wing views and to my surprise – she had seemed apolitical – she also said that it seemed like our only option no matter how scary.
This is because she is concerned about the future of her children and her aged parents.
Sometimes I despair as well – yesterday the whole calman thing – but I think there is hope.
NW. But unfortunately one side of the debate isn’t being listened to and has no chance of getting its way.
Erm, yes it does. It’s called a general election. There’s one due following the independence referendum. You need to be careful not to confuse people here.
SNP I imagine will propose to keep the pound, at least for a while I assume, other parties can make their own proposals. The parliament will then debate this and so Scotland’s currency will be decided, subject to review in future elections/depending on how it works out in the medium to longer terms.
What I found important, is that the pro-union campaign are now making a great deal of effort to show that an independent Scotland is not all about the SNP. The publicity they have given to all ‘parties’ on the YesScotland side has been great recently, demonstrating how support for independence is so widespread, covering all walks of life and political affiliations. I was worried that this would not get across strongly, but the currency debate has really helped with this.
Oh and I found it amusing that currency is actually way down the list of people’s priority in terms of voting next year – and that’s from BT’s own survey! 8 in 10 couldn’t care less and that’s when they had 3 things to tick. Not only that, but BT spent all that time and effort on the EU when again, 8 in 10 rank it of little importance to them. Given Yougov bias towards Labour/the union, it should be even less that care about these issues reality.
Oh, and further to our previous discussions on VI polling. I see even Yougov are showing only 6 point leads for Labour now, and they are a pollster that tends to show higher Labour leads. That’s a disaster for Ed at this stage.
Still, UKIP should do well today and that can only give a big boost to YesScotland.
Scottish_Skier: “Erm, yes it does. It’s called a general election. There’s one due following the independence referendum…SNP I imagine will propose to keep the pound, at least for a while I assume, other parties can make their own proposals”
But the SNP have said that they plan to negotiate to keep the pound before the first independent Scottish election. They plan to have the currency union agreed and tied up by independence day in early 2016.
Presumably the terms of the agreement won’t allow us to then leave it just a couple of months later should a party opposed to keeping the pound get elected?
NW The carefully agreed Czech Slovak currency union lasted 33 days
@skier
Looking forward to tomorrows headlines. Should be quite an indicator of where any vote in 2015 may travel.
NW
Any incoming government can propose to change currency.
All the SNP could do is organise to maintain sterling initially for stability, then propose to keep it for the next parliamentary term if they were elected. As it is highly improbable they’ll get a majority, they’ll need to get full parliamentary support even if they do form the largest party, which is possible/likely.
As you can see in the EU, nothing is stopping a country leaving the Euro and there have been discussions that some might do this (e.g. Greece). No country is ‘tied’ to a currency.
Anyhow, I like everyone I know, ranks currency way down the list of immediate priorities. I’d be happy with the £ initially, but likewise more than happy with a Scots currency independent of sterling longer term. Whatever works best for Scotland.
Anyhow, far more pressing is what happens with UKIP today. That could really have a big impact in Scotland. As others have mentioned, people are nervous of independence, but an increasingly far-right UK is an even scarier prospect; at least that’s what I’ve found when talking to people. With Labour losing it’s weak lead 2 years ahead of the next GE, Scots are looking at a UKIP-Tory government if they vote No.
The Better Together campaign is being largely funded from England. That needs to be emphasized time and again.
@ Norsewarrior: What one-sided debate? Currently views are being expressed on many issues and so the public will become increasingly better informed on the pros and cons of Independence. Better expressed and reasoned over now in 2013, than next year.By 2014 people will easily be able to recognise bullshit and scaremongering.
An independent Scotland sitting in negotiation over representation in the sterling zone’s Bank of England needn’t sit there “thinking of themselves as weak and feeble supplicants”. Scotland would have options other than continuing with the pound sterling and the UK mandarins are well aware of that.Osborne’s visit up here was a very weak bluff.
Scotland is a small country, so is England. Scotland is a resource-rich country. England?
Handclapping: “The carefully agreed Czech Slovak currency union lasted 33 days”
Indeed, but that’s hardly an example we should be using. As you’ll be aware the Czech-Slovak currency union collapsed due to a huge flow of money from the smaller country to the larger, with a massive run on the Slovak banks.
After the union collapsed the Slovak currency tumbled to such an extent that the border had to be closed to prevent Slovaks physically carrying their money from Slovak banks to the Czech ones.
Not exactly a good example for our own proposed currency union is it!
@Macart
I’ve been asking UKIP voters what they’ll do in 2015 (on another forum). They’ve all said they’ll vote UKIP most likely for the council and EU elections to put pressure on Cameron to be more hard right, but will in all probability vote Tory in 2015 as they don’t want to let Labour in by the back door.
Velofello: “What one-sided debate? Currently views are being expressed on many issues”
You mis-read my post, I didn’t say it was a ‘one-sided debate’, quite the opposite in fact, I said “one side of the debate” on an independent Scotland’s currency isn’t being listened to by those who matter and has no chance of getting its way.
Morag, you are so right!
What is stopping us going – respectfully – BLT on the BBC’s political blogs that are still open to sharing enlightenment?
Is it only us who wish to get out from under?
Oops, meant to add the latest poll shows:
Tory (+UKIP Tory protest vote) = 46%
Labour = 39%
A seven point lead and growing for the extreme right. And, as noted, that’s for a poll which tends to show some labour bias.
NW Nice try at changing the argument. Your assertion was to the speed at which an independent Scotland could change its currency. My factual response was that it can happen on quite a short time scale. The subtext to your assertion is that we would be folded into the embrace of rUK and so not independent at all. The subtext to my fact is that when you are independent you can do what you want when you want.
“Your assertion was to the speed at which an independent Scotland could change its currency. My factual response was that it can happen on quite a short time scale”
Only if both parties in the currency union agree to ending the union – as happened in the Czech-Slovak union. Perhaps you could explain why on earth you think rUK would go to the trouble of forming a currency union with Scotland only to subject themselves to economic damage by happily agreeing to us leaving it again a couple of months later if we elect a party opposed to it?
“when you are independent you can do what you want when you want”
Apart from when you’ve formed a legally binding agreement or treaty or union with another independent state, obviously.
Look, obviously the currency union is going to be legally binding and is likely to include a minimum timescale. It wouldn’t be in the interests of either Scotland or rUK to open themselves to economic instability by forming a currency union that either of them could leave whenever they feel like.
The only way Scotland could leave the currency union just a few months after joining it is if both they and rUK agree to that happening (as happened with the Czech-Slovak union) which isn’t likely.
So once we’ve joined the currency union we will be stuck in it, even if we vote overwhelmingly for a party opposed to it in the 2016 election.
Morag,
Please disregard my last to your 9:50am for now, as I had not hit refresh before jumping in to what is now a viking whirlpool.
Another only 6 point lead for Labour just out from Comres.
Tory (+UKIP protest) = 45%
Labour = 38%
Ooch. This is starting to look really, really bad for Ed.
http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/920/independent-political-poll.htm
@ Norsewarrior; “look obviously the currency union is going to be legally binding…”. sorry but it isn’t obvious to me. A mutually beneficial agreement perhaps between Scotland and rUK but legally binding on independent countries? If one side fails to abide by the terms of the agreement to which court would the case be presented? And don’t forget, Perfidious Albion was a description earned.
But then it isn’t obvious to me how a debate described by you “as one side not being listened to’ is not a one-sided debate.
“Another only 6 point lead for Labour just out from Comres. Tory (+UKIP protest) = 45% Labour = 38%”
While I agree that, based on current polls, it looks very unlikely that Labour will win a majority in 2015, I don’t think its a particularly good idea to assume that all the Ukip voters will return to the Tory fold in that election.
Doubtless some will vote Tory in order to try and stop Labour winning, but you only have to look at the comments on site such as the Telegraph to see the extent of the utter hatred many Ukip voters have for Cameron. In many cases they despise him more than they dislike Labour. Many of them actually see Ukip as a viable alternative to the Tories, not just a protest vote, and plan to stick with Ukip even if it means Labour winning (because that would mean the end of Cameron).
“sorry but it isn’t obvious to me. A mutually beneficial agreement perhaps between Scotland and rUK but legally binding on independent countries?”
Dear me, quite obviously the currency union is going to be legally binding! Do you seriously think two independent countries would form such a union without ensuring that one of them can’t back out of it at any time, therefore opening them to potentially very damaging economic instability?! All international treaties and contractual unions are legally binding! We don’t live in the 18th century where a ‘mutual agreement’ and a gentleman’s handshake was enough!
“If one side fails to abide by the terms of the agreement to which court would the case be presented?”
The International Court of Justice obviously.
@ Norse, I’ve chatted to about 20 UKIP voters in the past few days. Admittedly a small sample, but from across England/of various backgrounds and only a couple have said they won’t vote Tory in 2015.
They understand as well as many in Scotland who support the SNP but have historically voted Labour for UKGE’s to stop the Tories (10-15% of the electorate), that voting UKIP in a GE could help Labour get a majority. Cameron has already conceded an EU referendum; they want to make sure he’s true to his word. Their words, not mine.
“I’ve chatted to about 20 UKIP voters in the past few days”
And I’ve seen the comments of numerous Ukip voters on the Telegraph who’ve said how much they despise Cameron, how they don’t believe he’ll stick to his promise of an EU referendum, and how they’ll still vote Ukip in 2015 even if it means Labour winning.
As I said, I’m sure you’re correct to assume that some Ukip voters will vote Tory in 2015 to stop Labour winning, but there are also many who won’t – which is why it is unwise to add their estimated vote to that of the Tories and assume the Tories will benefit from all those voters come 2015, they won’t.
“They understand as well as many in Scotland who support the SNP but have historically voted Labour for UKGE’s to stop the Tories”
Would you vote Labour in a general election in order to stop the Tories if Labour had called your party ‘fruitcakes, closet racists, clowns’ etc? And if you despised the Labour leader?
Note my sample is probably a better sample of ‘normal’ people. It comes from a forum not on politics, but on weather. It just has a section for politics. In that sense it is a broad cross-section, I know who the people are, many by name, where they live, how old they are, what they do for a job. Quite a different sample from e.g. the Telegraph. We may share different political views, but can debate reasonably with each other; something not seen too often on the telegraph etc. These are not strongly politically active people, just normal person on the street types who chat about all sorts of things on ‘slow weather’ days (no snow or storms…).
My adding of totals is to remind people in Scotland what the neighbours want for the UK rather than being a specific projection. In the end, it is those neighbours who will decide the what happens in 2015, not Scotland (if it stays).
This should serve as a reminder too:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22268414
‘Up to one in 10’ English Democrat members were in BNP
English nationalism is on the rise and it is the polar opposite of Scottish nationalism; the former being extreme right wing and the latter centrist to left leaning liberal.
Even Labour are shifting to the right strongly. Libs are catching up.
Oh and what’s nice too, is that on the ‘Scottish Politics’ Section, everyone posting is Yes.
Regarding the “Real Scots” portrait gallery, Mr Flint is Chairman of HSBC, the bank fined $1.92 billion dollars for laundering money for Mexican and Colombian drug cartels.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/us-hsbc-probe-idUSBRE8BA05M20121212
@skier
I’ve been asking UKIP voters what they’ll do in 2015 (on another forum). They’ve all said they’ll vote UKIP most likely for the council and EU elections to put pressure on Cameron to be more hard right, but will in all probability vote Tory in 2015 as they don’t want to let Labour in by the back door.
Sounds about right. If today goes as expected, Ed better start watching his back.
I live in England so know a lot of people. I have been amazed at how many traditional Tory and Labour voters are saying they will vote UKIP.
I don’t think the issue is how many will or will not vote Tory at the next general election, but the bigger impact on the independence referendum will be how far to the right both the Tories and the Labour Party will lurch to try to reclaim the UKIP vote.
David Cameron is already saying he wants to speed up the legislation needed to prevent immigrants coming to the UK and claiming benefits etc.
Remember UKIP is opposed to the Scottish Parliament.
Interesting times.
to Quote Norsy:
Would you vote Labour in a general election in order to stop the Tories if Labour had called your party ‘fruitcakes, closet racists, clowns’ etc? And if you despised the Labour leader?
Good question, but perhaps not in the way you intended, you see this is the kind of stuff that the tory loving media down here is full of right now.
pictures of Ukip nazy claims and all manner of smears that we in the SNP/Yes campaigns, would be fully familiar with.
Yet Ukip is not being crushed or suffering because of these smears, they are thriving with all the publicity. They are indeed an extreem right wing party, yet the smears have had no effect, except to make the Tories who have said the things against them look silly. !
Hmmm I think the vote for Ukip will show just how effective a negetive media campaign can be, in the modern internet savy world.
I think we already know the answer.
The disgusting smear based BT campaign, will have the same success, unless we think the voter in England are more politicaly aware than those in Scotland.
I was always told that the exact opposite was true 😉
Hmph. There’s nothing wrong with being bald and old, thank you VERY much.
😀