Chasing the story
A couple of things we’ve sent off this morning in relation to this.
“TO: Murray Foote, Editor, the Daily Record
Dear Mr Foote,
I note today that you’ve sent an email to a reader of Wings Over Scotland stating that ‘The Daily Record had no involvement at any point in the wording of The Vow. The words were provided by email to the Daily Record in their finally [sic] form after being written, discussed and finally agreed by the three political party leaders.’
I’m very happy to accept your word that that’s true, but it raises as many questions as it answers. I wonder if in the interests of full disclosure and transparency you could answer just a couple of them very briefly?
(1) Who instigated the production and publication of ‘The Vow’? Did the Daily Record contact someone – either the party leaders themselves or a third party such as Gordon Brown – and request it, or did the party leaders produce it on their own initiative and offer it to you for publication?
(2) You say the final wording was provided to you by email. From whose email account was it sent? Was it one belonging to Gordon Brown, or ‘Better Together’, or a political party, or the UK government?
I’m sure you understand the legitimate public interest, for several reasons, in those questions being answered, and hope you can be of assistance.
Regards,
Rev, Stuart Campbell
Editor, Wings Over Scotland”
And to the Office of the Prime Minister, this:
We’ll let you know as soon as we hear back from either.
Cat among the purdies
Is breath being held?
Go get’em Stu…..but don’t hold yer breath.
I wouldn’t hold your breath Rev, for fear of turning blue. But well done nonetheless.
Is the Queen still purring?
Pure genius!!
If Foote is actually honest, he will publish the email he got containing The Vow and publishing who sent it to him. Our Prime Minister breaking Purdah should be of interest to Foote as well because he’s so honest and honourable and Scotland’s champion.
Purrfect.
Great work. This should be a laugh.
No doubt these E-mails have been shredded, much like certain expense account details have been shredded to same some red faces….
I won’t hold my breath…
It’s a wn/win – somebody somewhere is telling porkies! Is it the Record? or, is it Millbands office?
I believe it was an error to chuck in the stuff about the Purdah, they’ll now obfuscate and stall about the purdah stuff as an excuse to not reveal any of the Vow material.
Get in among them.
Message from MI5:
Mr Campbell: Please report to your nearest police station. Yer tea’s oot.
Oh dear, I don’t think they were expecting this. And, when push comes to shove, they will ditch the weakest link, the Daily Rancid editor, who was being used all along as a “useful Jock idiot” for the WM establishment elite (which is as alien to the other guid fowk of England, Wales and NI as it is to us).
You holding a Foote to the fire? (Sorry).
Good work! Should it not say January 2015?
The righteousness of the Rev gives such a warm feeling.
And forget abouth the “breath holding”…we can wait.
This issue is very much alive and is not going away anytime soon.
Not only have they shredded the emails but they have shredded the computers and handheld devices they were sent from, just to make sure. If it was Glasgow City Council they’d burn down a few buildings just for good measure [watch this space].
well done that man!
🙂
We await the answers with bated breath, if everything is aboveboard their should be no problem in answering both requests, without any significant delay.
Great pressure.
As soon as I read “was provided by email”, I thought, go on then, Mr Foote, please continue – who sent the bloody email?
Or was it “emails”?
Your date for the production of the new Scotland Bill needs tweaked.
Expect ‘Vow II’: The Empire Writes Back
“You holding a Foote to the fire?”
Why in crap’s name didn’t I think of that?
Excellent!
They are damned if they do & well and truly f****d if they Don’t
“Your date for the production of the new Scotland Bill needs tweaked.”
So does your grasp of the linear nature of time 🙂
Rev the definition of the verb sign is very important in the DR publication.
I assume your FOI request meant 25 January 2015 NOT 2014 ?
This is brilliant Stu. Keep up the good work.
Do you suppose that the upcoming denial will be written by all three party leaders and published front page by the that pillar of the media establishment the daily retard?
Ooh. That’ll set the cat amongst the pigeons. I’m absolutely certain Mr Cameron will comply with your request post haste, because he is, after all , our PM and a fine, upstanding, honourable man with the best interests of the citizens of the UK at heart. Isn’t he?
Yeap, the bottom line is, if there is nothing to hide, then there is no reason whatsoever that everything should not be put on the table, if it is not, then it will only prove to everyone that the whole thing was a stitch up to deceive the Scottish voters, with the Daily Record at the heart of it.
I’m worried that all this additional pressure is going to distract the Record’s Editor from his main daily tasks of reprinting Labour Party press releases, delving into the secret world of celebrities, and revealing revelations exclusively about why one side of the old firm thinks they’re better than the other.
Ouch! That will hurt.
If we could go back a year that easily I’m sure the result would be different next time ago.
Foote cannot publish a private email without authorization from its sender, no more than you can publish a non-public letter that was sent to you. It is, at least in France, considered as an offense (breach of privacy), and I’m sure it’s the same in the UK/Scotland.
“Foote cannot publish a private email without authorization from its sender, no more than you can publish a non-public letter that was sent to you.”
(1) He’s already published the email, all over his front page. It was expressly designed for public consumption and signed by its supposed authors. We just asked where specifically it came from.
(2) I can publish anything I like if it was sent to me unsolicited. (Subject to other laws, of course.)
The English/British Unwritten Constitution is not worth the paper it is not written on.
The Daily Record Three Unionist Lib/Lab/Con Party Vow, it appears, is not worth the ether space it is not written on neither.
The “Scottish” Daily Record, like other papers in Scotland, cares less about its declining readership than it does of being a propaganda machine for interests outside of Scotland.
Popcorn!!! Salty or Sweet!!!??
Brilliant work.
Excellent keeping the foot on foote’s throat.
and speaking of the media…
Independent Vs independence: Scotland and the national media
link to iomtoday.co.im
Might be relevant to request e-mails between ‘BIG BEASTIE BROWN ‘ and the PM/’s office, From the wording in your FOI the PM’s office would omit them. His involvement would bear scrutiny.
I venture your FOI will be denied on the basis of “safeguarding national security”! 🙂
Cant you forward these to Faisal Islam and twist his arm to reveal his Unionist Conspiracty emails.
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that THE VOW was wholly concocted by the Daily Retard. Think about it. If the three amigos really HAD wanted to reach out to the Scottish people, why would they have chosen such a rancid tabloid as the DM?
That is not how important documents are published. They would take out a full-page ad in a rag slightly less downmarket and tabloid, such as The Scotsman. And would these three PR clowns have ever let an incident like that pass without lots of fanfare from their press departments and propaganda machines (“much ado about nothing”)?
I am convinced this was created solely by the Daily Retard, which naturally told the three amigos what it planned to do and ok-ed it with them (and maybe even used a little more poetic licence than planned). Either that or the Daily Retard in tandem with Gordon Broon.
O/T It is interesting, isn’t it, how, in cases of treachery, everyone hates the ("Tractor" - Ed) more than even the bullies/oppressors/criminals themselves? And what could be more miserable than selling out your own country with a lie? You have to hate your own countrymen and women and, by definition, your own self, very much to want to do that….
Aw this is great, better than any political thriller on telly! Can’t wait for the next episode…….
What I love about the Rev sending an email to someone, is knowing that he has the authority of half of Scotland to do it, and that the people he’s emailing knows it to.
@Chris Cairns.
You holding a Foote to the fire? Brilliant!
Good work Stu!
Vowgate?
It really does look like the consequences of unprotected chicanery have fertilised!
Rev. Stuart Campbell a thorn in the propaganda establishment. Truly sir, you are a knight and shinning armour for the unfortunate minority of our population. Keep up the great work!!
Kenny says:
4 November, 2014 at 12:47 pm
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that THE VOW was wholly concocted by the Daily Retard.
You may be correct- time will tell. If it was the Daily Record wot dun it, however, it is interesting that the three apparent signatories kept remarkably quiet about it before the referendum (and are still doing so). They have had ample opportunity to cry “foul” (or is it “fraud”). Six weeks and not a bleep. All conveniently forgotten.
Luigi says: Vowgate?
I like that.
‘Vowgate’ it is then.
Who initiated it, who wrote it, and in what capacity?
Then it was the Watergate tapes.
Now it’s the Vowgate emails.
Where are they?
[…] Chasing the story […]
We MUST be relentless here REV.
We must never underestimate the damage that the Daily Record has done to our Country. It has helped set back our road to Independence by years. They must pay a very heavy price for that.
For some on here to suggest we forget it and get on with life, is just as criminal. How the hell are we going to learn from the defeat if we don’t look at how and why we were defeated and by who.
It’s the only way we have of proving to thousands of NO voters that they were conned.
Learn by our mistakes, so it doesn’t happen again. We need to keep going over were we went wrong and what we could have done better, so when the next referendum comes around, we are all forewarned and on our toes. We won’t be fooled like this again.
Regardless of where it originally came from, the email will be shown to have come from BT coz they are the only crowd that now have nothing to loose.
This is absolutely spot on, Rev. Your reasoning proves they were indeed in breach of Purdah. They (backed up by MSM) will spin otherwise, of course, but that just shows us how corrupt they really are.
Great work – Rev Stu and Flower of Scotland.
Real Journalists, unlike the BBC and MSM.
The boot is now on the other Foote.
I’d like to think some Journalist would pick this up and run with it. I’m guessing the only newspaper which would consider that is the Sunday Herald, so here’s hoping they thake this on board.
A powwow to row who kowtow to the Vow now. (Sorry)
I have been following these last 2 threads trying to figure out what is actually going on, the numerous posts here are helping
heedtrackers post on the last thread about an article in the spectator stating that it was brown who was responsible for this and that the leaders were unaware makes sense
1. if ed milliband was unaware, then the dr wont have a copy of his signature sent before the 18th??? or that it came from brown, in which case the dr and brown are guilty of fraud
(well done stu, i think you are on the right track here)
2. If milliband (and assuming clegg and cameron) were unaware of this, then they are correct in now saying there was no vow, as is ming.
3. the problem with point 2 is that they didnt disown this before the referendum, making them complicite in the fraud
4. so the smith commission is the sop which enables them to say they are honoring the vow, while at the sametime pointing out that they didnt make the vow, this means that the smith commission is not bound over to propose, eg, that holyrood will become permanent, or anything else proposed in the vow, just the timetable to produce its proposals?
hmmm, anyone out there capable of down loading the speaches by brown before and after, and mings interview saying the vow was concrete on the 19th, and him now saying there is no vow, also andrew neil on the daily politics saying it was the DR who mocked it up. please do so
why are the dr complaining to wings and not andrew neil at the bbc for saying that the vow was made up by the dr? oh, and to the dr, it was not “suggested” that the vow was mocked up, that claim was made quite clearly in an email from an official at the labour party
At least No.10 has to reply but Foote is probably waiting on orders from whom? If it was me shysting a whole non nation Scotland/my proud Scot butland region, I’d be all like Cameron Project Fearing it with ” there would have be armed guard border checkpoints at Berwick and no pensions and terrorists beheading your mum in the street coming back from the shops, BUT I really love Scotland and stand by everything I signed up to in the Daily Record’s The Vow”
Now let the sweaties work out what it actually meant and when they think it’s going to happen, suckas.
But that’s just me. I should get a job at the Scotsman! oh wait:D
Wonder how Fisal Islam got hold of the emails?
One would assume they were leaked by someone who wanted them released into the public domain. (I’m guessing from a Tory contact who thought they might harm the Labour Party / Gordon Brown?).
If that’s the case then surely the leaker is unhappy that Fisal is sitting on them? If you are reading this, Leaker, send them to the Rev, he’ll get them published in no time!
As brilliant as this is, the fact remains it will be ignored and apart from the 11% who were getting their info on-line no one will get to hear of it. Or worse still the established media in general and the Record in particular will twist it to suit their agenda. Ferdinand Mount is so right. (sic) There is no Democracy. Just many fat and getting fatter Oligarchies supporting each other. All the main Parties (apart from the SNP) are hollowed out shells totally reliant on and run by the ‘New Few’.
The SNP needs to make sure it does not end up stifled by an ‘old gaurd’. It needs to get all these new members involved. Reach out to all of the Yes support where perhaps the SNP is a step too far. Maybe we need a new party, like Spain.
MajorBloodnok says:
4 November, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Thank you MajorBloodnok – that post captured the utter panic taking place presently at the DR.
If The Daily Record do not surrender the “guilty” then they must accept full accountability for the lie.
@ commenters discussing purdah period with EC on previous post:
With respect to the point being made about whether party leader campaign statements can be said to represent Government policy.
I don’t have the background to your correspondence, but was the question to the EC in respect of the purdah period?
If so then it could be argued that technically purdah was not broken by the Vow in one respect as it did not promise anything new, even if the new presentation of old statements mocked-up and entitled the Vow was published. (I’m not looking at the question of who issued the Vow, and all the other vagaries of that being made in other points, at the moment).
However it does bring up an important point regarding whether one can consider the party leaders in a campaign to represent Government policy, as well as whether any statements by campaign leaders presented in new formats during the purdah period were designed to lead voters to believe promises of new powers were made.
If party leaders make written statements of undertakings, the public is entitled to believe that should all or any of those party leaders form current or future Governments, that those policies will be enacted insofar as is possible. Just to use one example, Clegg’s Pledge on tuition fees.
This pledge to the electorate formed part of his election policy in his 2010 campaign, and was designed to give the electorate an idea of what to expect should he be elected leader. He was subsequently unable to fulfil that pledge. However, this does not deter campaigning leaders from setting out the policies prior to elections they believe they want to enact, and even more so, that they want the electorate to believe they will enact. The public is entitled to believe that party leaders’ campaign promises do represent future Government policy should they be successfulin forming Government otherwise why bother to issue them at all? They could just as well issue nothing and say, “Vote for us, we’ll do what we want”. No. They are expected to campaign on statements of Government intent, and the public is expected to view those statements as such.
What would be stopping them from doctoring up a few emails and publishing them?
They’re all in it together.
What this whole Vow business shows up quite clearly is the way that the Establishment, in particular the Labour Establishment in Scotland, holds the electorate in contempt. The DR is part and parcel of that establishment. It is a voice for the Labour Party. It is the Labour Party.
In the information age, with social networking to the fore, you have to be extremely clever to carry through a manipulation of the electorate and leave no trail nor stones that can be looked under.
The DR, in it’s arrogance, thought that it was far to clever for certain segments of the Scottish people not to question this. It probably genuinely presumed that it would get away with this, no questions asked.
In this case it has not; this wasn’t a simple General Election, where the same tired old disruption of the democratic process could be carried out by the MSM. This was far bigger and much more important.
The Daily Record has been caught red handed. It manipulated the electoral process by publishing the Vow and it now needs to be held to account. We, the public, can punish it in it’s pocket, where it hurts.
There should be a campaign to not buy the DR.
In addition, all advertisers should refrain immediately from publishing in the Daily Record. If they do not, then we, the public can extend our non cooperation to them. We can stop doing business with certain car companies that use the DR, we can refuse to do business with job sites, etc.
We threaten this and actually follow through on the threats until the DR complies with our requests.
It’s the buying public that actually holds the cards in this. We just need to exercise that power that we hold in our pockets.
No buying of the paper, no using the goods and services of it’s advertisers until we get what we want and democracy is seen to be returned to Scotland.
Bill Halliday says:
4 November, 2014 at 1:16 pm
Bill do not underestimate this story.
Yes the DR is only ONE agent of the unionist machine. However it is important that we continue to highlight every such issue from the BBC, SKY etc down to individual company heads.
The system is not just corrupt as regards Scotland. It is the standing of our UK media and the elite as regards being honest.
@Rev. Douglas Alexander MP reply about the VOW.
This is a reply I got from Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander regarding the VOW. I told him I voted NO on the strength of the VOW:
The correspondence over the last 10 days or so relates to the Daily Record publication of September 16th.
You state: “PLEASE TRY AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS WITHOUT DANCING ROUND THEM” therefore this is a recap and re-answer directly. It appears you must be missing the point – it is the words and the very public promise that was, and still is, vital rather than was there a bit of paper given to the editor.
You stated:
“The majority voted NO in the referendum based on this signed VOW.” – that is a matter of your opinion you are free to express. That does not mean you are correct in your assumption that the majority of the people of Scotland, from the Shetlands to the Borders, who expressed their will on September 18th made up their minds based on one publication by the Daily Record BUT as
You also state: “Can you tell me if it is genuine. If it is, then was the “Vow” a con. Was it a lie. I voted in the referendum on the strength of this Vow. I voted on the promise of these powers, now I feel cheated.” Of course it was genuine. We are very sorry to hear you feel cheated though quite puzzled as to why. To suggest ‘con’ and ‘lie’ is inappropriate. The promise is all underway. We can see no reason why you appear to think otherwise. There is no suggestion at all that the words are not being adhered to. From the 19th of September work started. In Westminster, the Scottish Parliament, and the Smith Commission where ALL parties are represented is well underway. Historic legislation due for first draft – in a historically short amount of time by the end of January. Therefore there are no credible grounds for feeling cheated.
You stated:
“sign the VOW a week before the vote, telling Scots we will get these extensive new power. ” – yes again, these are all underway as publicly illustrated at all levels within the media agencies and parliamentary bodies. The Smith commission. You were provided with links telling you information on this, the timetables and submissions from each party. If you wish to add your comments directly to the Smith Commission then you can do so right here.
You stated:
“Can you explain what the Labour Party are putting forward for their part of the VOW” – and we provided you with the link to the Smith Commission – which includes Labour’s submission. Final submissions deadline is tomorrow.
You asked: “DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT DOCUMENT” – we do not and have no reason to. A public declaration to thousands of people – in the West of Scotland’s largest circulation newspaper is a much tighter bond than pursuing whether a piece of paper can be photocopied. This constituency office does not know the format the Daily Record accepted the promise e.g. whether on paper, at a meeting or electronically – BUT what is without doubt, all leaders will have confirmed their promise jointly after comprehensive communication and offered their signature for use in hardcopy printing of the paper.
You stated: “This paper must be in the Westminster Parliament, surely”. You were provided with a link from the Westminster Reference library with all that they had relating to the larger matter AND the Daily Record publication. You seem to be under the impression that this public promise made by the 3 leaders via the Daily Record was a Westminster document – it was NOT, so once again, Westminster, or this office, has no reason to have copy of any related document. As a reminder I include the Daily Record publication. This could be printed out as a document if you wish. There are no areas within this statement that have been broken.
If you still wish to pursue further on the source format they set up their front page story with then I suggest you make contact with the editor of the Daily record.
Further re some obscure “NETWORK” suggestion in the Labour party – the answer in unequivocally NO.
The matter is now concluded and this is the last correspondence on this line of enquiry.
Regards
Douglas Alexander MP.
@gillie
The Empire Writes back.
😀 mucho mucho
I take it is 100% agreed you will not be taking your dog for a walk into any woods in Bath area as in Dr David Kelly’s case.
Nor do you have any heart problems ,or depression that would make it likely you would suddenly and without warning want to end it all?
Can I also respectfully suggest you hire a food taster and check your vehicle daily especially brakes and for any packages attached
Great post Stu. One of your best. Just noticed it should be Jan 2015. Don’t want to give them any wriggle room.
If you look at the comments made by Miliband’s office, Ming and Donohoe you get the feeling that some form of words had been agreed, or partly agreed to, but what the Daily Record actually published was different, above and beyond what was intended.
Did the Record embellish and/or fabricate parts of an agreement in what became known as the ‘vow’?
This is looking very much like a Daily Record job. After all, if this had originated from ‘les tres amigos’ & Broon they wouldn’t have given exclusivity to one single news paper bearing in mind that they had all but the Sunday Herald on their side.
are we missing something here? perhaps this letter from the dr to wings wasnt for our benefit, perhaps it was a warning shot at westminster, it is believed they read wings too
“One of the most bizarre suggestions about The Vow is that the leaders knew nothing about it until after it was published by the Daily Record.
To believe the Record could do so and that three powerful politicians like the Prime Minister, his Deputy and the Leader of the Opposition would not then disown The Vow the very next morning is naive in the extreme”
naive in the extreme, yes, and also electoral fraud
if ming campbel is now saying there was no vow
(anyone got a link to this?) isnt that the same as accusing the 3 amigos of exactly that??
Dear Mr Campbell
We seem to have misplaced your request we think the request is among the expenses documents
“BUT what is without doubt, all leaders will have confirmed their promise jointly after comprehensive communication and offered their signature for use in hardcopy printing of the paper.” – Douglas Alexander.
So if there is a paper/electronic trail as Wee Dougie contends it should now be published. What is there to fear?
Well done Rev, I agree with one scot , ‘they’ know the amount of people who back this site and this will be all over social media.
At the start of the Referendum campaign I ‘just thought’ Independence would be better for the people of Scotland.
By the end of the campaign I ‘knew’Independence would be better for the people of Scotland and shenanigans like the vow by the establishment are one of the many reasons why.
Surely “Purdah” or the breaking off is not a big issue,they will wriggle there way out of that corner, anyway don’t think as per the Edinburgh Agreement that the UK Government or BT were covered by Purdah…
To me its the total disregard to the UN and EC Charter on Human Rights that the UK Government is signed up to that matters.
Both state that there should be no outside interference, That “outside” means outside Scotland. Better Together and the UK Government were in breach of the UN/EC Charter.
I understands that the Celtic League has already written to the UN making a formal complaint.
AuldA says:
Foote cannot publish a private email without authorization from its sender, no more than you can publish a non-public letter that was sent to you. It is, at least in France, considered as an offense (breach of privacy), and I’m sure it’s the same in the UK/Scotland.
Does not seem to be as simple as that in the UK
link to news.bbc.co.uk
“Free the Vowgate emails”
Publish and be damned I say.
“Free the Vowgate emails”
Publish and be damned I say.
link to twitter.com
[…] Chasing the story […]
The Daily Record has put their Foote right in it.
O/T
Why do the “Scottish Labour Party” have a ENGLISH rose on their letterhead, presume it is the red rose of Lancashire and ENGLAND. Just interested to know.
CNBC Squawkbox presenter Joe Kernen ran into a bit of confusion yesterday, while talking to Martin Shanahan of IDA Ireland.
There was a bit confusion over what currency Ireland uses (the euro, for 15 years) and whether Ireland is part of the UK (it hasn’t been, for 93 years).
Becky Quick asked what a slightly weaker euro has done to Irish tourism.
Joe Kernen: You have pounds anyway, don’t you still?
Martin Shanahan: We have euros.
JK: You have euros in Ireland? Why do you have euros in Ireland?
MT: Why wouldn’t we have euros?
JK: I’d use the pound.
Just for reference, Ireland entered the euro in 1999. So it’s been a while.
The exchange went on, and Kernen continued to show a not-quite nuanced understanding of Ireland’s history.
Quick and co-host Andrew Ross Sorkin sat there in silence, doubtless wishing that the earth would open up and eat them:
JK: What about Scotland? I was using Scottish… er…
MT: Scottish pounds. They use sterling. But we use euro.
JK: What?
MT: Why wouldn’t we do that?
JK: Why didn’t Scotland?
MT: Well they’re part of the UK, and we’re not.
Kernen goes on express his astonishment that Northern Ireland (still part of the UK) uses sterling, saying that “you guys gotta get it together”.
An email from the government (or on behalf of it) would break purdah rules, be in direct breach of the Edinburgh Agreement and potentially have implications for the acceptance and implementation of the referendum result. Having said that, there actually wasn’t a promise of anything in any legal sense, so purdah wasn’t breached and neither was the Edinburgh agreement. Lies may sometimes be very clever. But they’re still just lies.
It’s a shame they didn’t set-up the Smith commission back in May or June, with a date for a new Scotland Bill deadlined for Sept 1st (the SNP may have declined to take part, but that would just have made it easier for the NO parties to reach agreement.
Then ‘the vow’ could have actually comprised a firm offer of just what extra powers would be conceded, and the Daily Record claim of ‘now voters can make an informed choice’ would have been a bit more credible.
One Foote in the Grave, as the idioms meet to confer…
Scene 1: morning room, No 10 Downing Street, following WoS FOI request…
“It’s very dire Prime Minister, we seem to have a ‘Foote in both camps’ and we could be ‘bound hand and Foote’ in our next move”
“Any suggestions as to how we avoid being ‘shot in the Foote’?”
“Well, we could offer a ‘Foote in the door’ at the Lords, if we can get the wrong Foote-d to ‘Foote the bill’ on this one, but that could be interpreted as ‘getting off on the wrong Foote’ and we really don’t want to ‘put a Foote wrong’ on this one”
“So, how do you advise we ‘put the boot on the other Foote’?”
“My advice PM; if we delay this matter as much as possible, perhaps the Euro issue will pick up. Lets invite the Eastern Europeans over; no-one will want to go anywhere near this matter with a ‘6 Foote Pole’. We can then cloud the issues with a no more ‘Foote in mouth’ approach”
“I see, I see…a strategy emerges on how to put our ‘best Foote forward’…”
…to be continued.
(sorry, quiet time at work…couldn’t resist)
Papadox
I think the Red Rose was, a good while ago, adopted as a sign of international socialism……
OK, I can see a wee issue there
This is really good Stu and is one of the best examples of “holding their feet to the fire” yet. But let’s be realistic – when you expose wrong doing, they just won’t care. Many of the comments on this thread are almost celebratory because people think they are on the run. They’re not. They dont give a f**k. They are content to have won the referendum, they will just batten down the hatches for the impending storm and ride it out.
Some No campaigners are admitting that they used dirty tactics, that they lost the arguments and that they did not fight fairly. But for them, the end justifies the means. They say the tactics were justified because the future of the “country” was at stake.
So of course, we must keep up the exposure of their wrong-doing, but let’s not expect that they are going to publicly admit to anything or re-run the referendum. The best we can hope for is that public opinion will move against them just a bit more with each revelation.
Douglas Alexander:
“A public declaration to thousands of people – in the West of Scotland’s largest circulation newspaper is a much tighter bond than pursuing whether a piece of paper can be photocopied.”
“Chris Cairns says:
4 November, 2014 at 12:24 pm
You holding a Foote to the fire? (Sorry).”
applause!
Douglas Alexander:
“This constituency office does not know the format the Daily Record accepted the promise e.g. whether on paper, at a meeting or electronically – BUT what is without doubt, all leaders will have confirmed their promise jointly after comprehensive communication and offered their signature for use in hardcopy printing of the paper.”
why didnt the dr editor send this letter to the bbc? or to ming campbell? it is them who said that their was no vow, not wings, we just expressed doubt in them keeping their vow, rightfully so.
the snp and greens should take a copy of the vow into the negotiating room and leave it on the table. the smith commision must adhere to it as it is a solomn vow by the 3 amigos
If they dont then the vow is broken
and if there is no vow, the 3 amigos are guilty of electoral fraud for not disowning it
On the subject of the Retard unless it’s due to the age of my machine and that I am still using XP what has happened to the Comment Facility on that rag – they seem to have followed BBC Scotland and withdrawn the ability to comment on-line about 2 weeks ago.
Again re the Retard since their disgraceful performance re the referendum they seemed to have upped the number of prurient sexual titillation articles in an attempt to stop the circulation decline.
O/T Is it my imagination or have the BBC realised that they have overdone things with their wall to wall Murphyvision and cut back on the relentless pro Murphy deluge on the basis that given the Scots dislike of being told what to do they might be turning off those entitled to vote.
Douglas Alexander:
“You were provided with a link from the Westminster Reference library with all that they had relating to the larger matter AND the Daily Record publication. You seem to be under the impression that this public promise made by the 3 leaders via the Daily Record was a Westminster document – it was NOT, so once again, Westminster, or this office, has no reason to have copy of any related document. As a reminder I include the Daily Record publication. This could be printed out as a document if you wish.”
O/T
Anybody any idea why “Scottish Labour Party” uses the red rose of England on its letter heading?
Is there a subliminal message I am missing?
The problem is that phrases such as ‘extensive new powers’ and ‘faster, safer and better change’ are very subjective.
Indeed it’s already clear that these mean three completely different things to the three parties ‘agreeing’ the guarantee to implement them.
It’s the fact that some people appear to have been swayed to NO rather than YES by a woolly stunt like this that I find incredible.
Picking away a tear in the fabric is what good journalism is about. It wall be interesting to see what falls out of the hole.
By the time you’re finished with him, do you think Foote will know his Arse from his elbow?
Paradox
The rose represents Labour. Nice on top but a load of pricks underneath
It wall be interesting
No idea why I typed wall…probably thinking about what we will come up against from No 10
Just asking, but why should we expect the Daily Record ( ITS THE DAILY RECORD!) to publish any emails and justify its actions?
This is like asking for the Wacky Race to be rerun because we realise Dick Dastardly put sugar in the petrol tank.
I cant stand the guy but Douglas Alexanders swatting away above says it all. This was the ultimate in Publish and Scots be damned and unless we can come from another angle ( ie poisonous plot emails between Unionists – donated from other parties) then all we can do is prepare for next battle and add this to the list of Must Never Happen Again.
The worse thing is we knew they would do anything to save their Union, now all we are doing is asking them to show us the trap doors behind the magic curtain.
link to order-order.com
Stuart, surely your letter to PM’s Office should make reference to January 2015, not 2014? Even the UK Government wouldn’t claim to be capable of time travel, even though they ARE firmly rooted in the past.
Clampit jaws – tears in een. Keep on biting hard.
@Stu / @Fiona:
Thanks for the input. Stu:
(1) That’s right. But maybe he’s not obliged to publish the email exchanges that lead to the final public version? Neither to reveal who sent that final version?
(2) Hmmm… Obviously I won’t contend with you on a subject that encroaches on UK/Scottish law I am not familiar with. Yet, if I send an email to you and state, either in the header or in the footer/signature, that it is meant for your eyes only, publishing it would probably be an offense. The article Fiona pointed out seems to state that letters, even unsolicited, are covered by an implicit copyright owned by their authors.
On the front page of The Daily Record vow, the first line states’ we agreed the Scottish Parliament is permanent”.
Douglas Alexander States in response to Caz-m ‘ a public declaration blah blah is a much tighter bond.’
So is the Scottish Parliament permanent or no?
Does that do away with the need to ask the Smith Commission to make it permanent ?
Next big scoop from the DR. Two days before the semi cup final between the old Firm- Ronaldo signs for Rangers , we’ve got his signature on a panini sticker so it must be true!
@TD
“This is really good Stu and is one of the best examples of “holding their feet to the fire” yet. But let’s be realistic – when you expose wrong doing, they just won’t care. Many of the comments on this thread are almost celebratory because people think they are on the run. They’re not. They dont give a f**k. They are content to have won the referendum, they will just batten down the hatches for the impending storm and ride it out.”
Afraid I’d have to agree with this.
History has shown us that these people can break laws and ignore human rights with impunity as they’ve done it countless times before and nothing has come of it.
They rely on the fact that voters have very short memories and come election time seem to suffer from some kind of selective amnesia regarding how often they’ve been screwed over before.
The only thing we can do is keep reminding them and hope they have the sense to learn from their mistakes for once…
@deisimond
I think the entire approach from ALL of this is, that for future reference…
Forewarned is Forearmed.
Making as much noise about these matters now, the complicity of all parties, is what is needed in order that all waivering voters…the un-decided’s…the “not too sure’s” know the who/why/what the Scottish people are up against.
I don’t think we’ll get a public flogging out of this probing by the Rev, and definitely no change to the 2014 outcome.
What we will get is…better prepared.
The answers to some of your questions seem to be here, Rev. David Clegg knows all about it:
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
“David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have signed up to a historic joint statement that was demanded by the Daily Record on behalf of the people of Scotland.”
“The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour”
That would suggest that the DR instigated “The Vow” and that GB and SLAB helped them with it.
Well I never 😀
This “Vow” thing is turning into something of a political Foote-ball.
Wonder if the Daily Record could confirm if Jim Murphy had won their Scottish Debater Of The Year 2015 award yet?
Although digital signatures are legally binding they are covered by a great deal of security and legislation , for it to be legally binding you cannot just fax someone a copy of your signature.
A digital signature and the system of using the digital signature shall:
1) enable unique identification of the person in whose name the signature is given;
2) enable determination of the time at which the signature is given;
3) link the digital signature to data in such a manner that any subsequent change of the data or the meaning thereof is detectable.
If both the signatories and the DR followed due procedure it should be easy to follow the timeline of the VOW and if not it is not legally binding on the signatories.
Arabs for Independence says:
4 November, 2014 at 2:18 pm
“The rose represents Labour. Nice on top but a load of pricks underneath”
Are you sure about that?
link to conservativehome.com
@Grizzle McPuss
I appreciate the intention, but we spent all the time before the referendum saying “LOOK AT HOW THEY LIE!”.
People know they lie. People knew they were liars and still voted for them.
Even though folk will cite the increase in the YES vote and ” the referendums over but thats no reason to ignore” I dont see an end product here.
I pray the rev has some twist in an end game here as my cynicism is with Oneironaut and TD. The Liars dont give a F*ck and I fear the lied too dont really either.
Its a new game and we may need some new tactics. In Rev we trust of course.
Excellent Stu.
They rely on the fact that few people, if any, chase a story like this. Allows them to get away with murder (literally)
Keep at them Stu.
And well done others who are harassing our elected members for info. Lets keep them on their toes.
Fantastic work Rev. Remember that persistence is the most underrated virtue. You are a livewire !
Just imagine if the vow was drafted in No 10, or Conservative HQ.
That would make it a Tory promise.
The damage to Labour and the Daily Record would be immense.
Looks like the DR is still frantically banging away on that delete button.
“The rose of all the world is not for me.
I want for my part
Only the little white rose of Scotland
That smells sharp and sweet—and breaks the heart” – Hugh MacDiarmid
bob sinclair says:
4 November, 2014 at 1:11 pm
I e-mailed both Ian Bell and Tom Gordon of the Sunday Herald on 19th Oct, the day they both mentioned the vow. I got no reply.
@Stu,
Hi Rev,
Editorial error?.
New Scotland Bill would be produced by 25th Jan. 2014.
Should read, ‘produced by 25th Jan. 2015 ?.
Apologies if other post has noted before.
Although on the surface this appears as fun, there is actually a very important question of Government responsibility here. As has been pointed out by many Tories in Westminster, whatever David Cameron as Prime minister ‘vows’ or ‘promises’ is neither here nor there, since enacting such a ‘vow requires the democratic mandate of a vote in the house of commons and usual parliamentary scrutiny.
Therefore, if the PM’s office was the source of the text, then it raises questions over what imaginary powers he was using to make such a ‘vow, or was it merely a hollow promise, produced as some kind of last minute bribe to the Scottish electorate.
In my understanding of Westminster, a Prime Minister cannot guarantee the delivery of such powers which would require parliamentary approval, since in a democracy he cannot personally guarantee the vote. It has become clear in parliamentary proceedings since the vow, that Tory back bench MP’s were not consulted, nor did they give their approval.
The two other amigos (Clegg and Miliband) have even less authority to make such a promise.
The response to this FOI, will be most interesting indeed. Somebody somewhere is being, as they say in Westminster, ‘economical with the truth’.
This is what this site does best, nailing the deception and fudged answers from both the media and Westminster. RevStu, like a dog with a bone. Excellent.
whether the 3 amigos are legally bound to carry out their vow is a moot point, i doubt they will or whether it could be proven otherwise or not
the question being asked is “did” they actually make a vow and if not, they are guilty of fraud by not renoucing the dr vow immediately.(as stated by the dr editor) i hope someone asks andrew neil or ming if they are accusing the 3 amigos of fraud when they say their is no vow.
this is the basis of vowgate, if it starts trending on twitter, journalists might start asking questions for clarification. i personally think that the unionists are digging their own graves over this. i stated earlier, it wasnt wings who said there was no vow, it was ming and the bbc
I’m sure there must be a connection between
950,000 elderly people, the BBC, The Daily Record and The Labour Party.
My mother-in-law, who is 86 and lives alone,
has the TV on from morning till night, whether it be in the living room or bedroom.
She also takes The Daily Record every day in spite of knowing full well all of it’s defects.
She has a laptop but never uses it.
She doesn’t like change. It upsets her.
Habits of a lifetime are a force to be reckoned with.
She is one of the 950,000.
I suspect there are many like her.
950,000 – and they all have a vote.
The Labour Party knows how to take care of the old folk
– and their votes.
The VOW must have been very reassuring to lots of voters, including the many elderly who did not post their vote.
For Independence to happen and then be a success,
the elderly have to be prioritised in future campaigns.
The 950,000 make Murray Foote’s job easy.
The 950,000 represents THE major challenge to Indy groups.
@desimond
“…but we spent all the time before the referendum saying “LOOK AT HOW THEY LIE!”.
Indeed, as we all did armed with WBB to support our argument. And I’m damn sure a good few were persuaded.
But still, at that time you had those that would swear blind that the Messiah edited the DR. Not now, not that WoS and others are pushing the truth of the matter to the surface.
If it wasn’t working, circulation figures would not be dropping. Go listen to the wider internet chatter. There are many reading this blog directly and indirectly, eg via FB.
And the end product?
More awareness than doubt…more light shone into the dark shadows…more questions raised. Let’s not forget the awakened Scottish voter. These are new times ahead.
I couldn’t agree more with you and the others about us being up against an intransigent enemy, but it shouldn’t stop us trying.
So if you see someone reading the Record, take it off them, roll it up and wallop them ten times over the napper with it. Then tell them to stand in the naughty corner for ten minutes.
It’s the only way to get the message through to them that it is “bad” to buy the Daily Record.
So what constitutes a signature in this context?
link to en.wikipedia.org
In the case of Mehta v J Pereira Fernandes the English High Court held that
“if a party or a party’s agent sending an e mail types his or her or his or her principal’s name to the extent required or permitted by existing case law in the body of an e mail, then in my view that would be a sufficient signature…”
That is, “I ACCEPT, DAVID CAMERON”. or “I AGREE, NICK CLEGG”, or “I APPROVE, ED MILIBAND”
An automatically inserted email address does not constitute a legally binding signature.
caz-m
Bit of direct action. Now you’re talkin ma language 🙂
Just a point, can people stop saying (without foundation) that the UK Government was not bound by the purdah period. It is set out very clearly in the Edinburgh agreement;
Section 29.
29. It is customary for there to be a period before elections in the UK, during which Ministers and other public bodies refrain from publishing material that would have a bearing on the election. Section 125 of PPERA sets out the restrictions that apply to Ministers and public bodies in the 28 days preceding referendums held under that Act. Both governments recognise the importance of respecting the 28-day period prior to a referendum, in the same way that both governments already respect each other’s pre-election period for Parliamentary elections. The Scottish Government will set out details of restricted behaviour for Scottish Ministers and devolved public bodies in the Referendum Bill to be introduced into the Scottish Parliament. These details will be based on the restrictions set out in PPERA. The UK Government has committed to act according to the same PPERA-based rules during the 28-day period.
(MY BOLDING)
Source: Edinburgh agreement, 15th October 2012. link to scotland.gov.uk
So this record guy reckons the vow made no difference to the vote? Why did you go to all the trouble then ya clown!
Now that our Editor n Cheif has put quill to paper,its charge full speed ahead ur you wearing your Eagle headress Rev,watch oot Mr Foote the Rev,s on the warpath.
It works for my kids anyway. But they have a higher IQ than DR readers who’ve never heard of Pavlov or his dogs.
maybe the queen was saying Purrrrrrrdah?
Graeme my Dog has a higher IQ than most of the readers(?) of the Daily Retard.
The Daily Record is soon to be just a foote-note in History.
Would the VOW not be illegal anyway. As far as I know, the laws regarding the Westminster Parliament are, you cannot carry a Bill from one term into a new term.
This is because they don’t know who will be in the new Government. No one knows which Party will have the final say or even if the new Party has the power, who is to say they will give Scotland any new powers.
So, if they all agree that Scotland has to get loads of new powers and is signed by all the Parties on 25th Jan, the newly elected Government at Westminster is under NO obligation whatsoever to grant them.
All the more reason to get as many SNP MPs into Westminster as possible.
I apologise to some if it seems Im being overly negative.
Im afraid Im still shaken up after walking through Kennington, London last night and seeing the one and only Lord Foulkes closing a gate 3 feet in front of me.
I just feel so dirty.
Graeme Doig
“Then tell them to stand in the naughty corner for ten minutes.”
No more Mr nice guy. The gloves are off.
@GivingGoose
“We, the public, can punish it in it’s pocket, where it hurts.”
Unfortunately we can’t, we already don’t buy it until the people who do buy it wise up there’s not a lot of scope for a boycott. Now given that the people who do buy it obviously like it and it will always give them what they want there really isn’t a great deal of room to persuade them otherwise, it’s just going to be a waiting game while print papers sales fall off as they will anyway.
O/T
Ronnie Anderson
I got a picture sent to me from the photographer who was at George sq on Sunday.
It is the one of us standing below the horses arse, with the Wings banner, Ginger dug +dug, caz-m, Mr Smart SSP, Catalan guy with flag and the badge maker. You weren’t in it AGAIN.
Will post it for you after.
Robert Louis, If what you state regarding “purda”, is true, and one cannot disagree with the Edinburgh wording ,why oh why did the YES side not hold the NO side to account?.
@desimond,
Was he closing it, or just holding onto it for support?
🙂
As I have said previously, given the prestige of the Vow, and it being taken up by all and sundry, I don’t know why the collaborative process between the DR and leaders was not given prominence.
Even more sadly, and weirdly, no one raised it at the time of publication,which goes to show the fervour of the electorate, and there is no question this Vow played a huge part in what
Unfolded thereafter.
Robert Louis 3:37pm
You are absolutely right.I fully agree and it highlights just how pathetic the Electoral Commission are.
O/T
On BBC Scotland Radio Drive time programme, Glen Campbell has just told us that their are 13,000 Scottish Labour Party members. Where did he dig that number up from?
I always thought it was a closely guarded secret.
Bravo Rev…stick it to the bastards!
This could be the crack in the rotten edifice that could bring the whole stinking fabrication known as the ‘VOW’ down.
Make no mistake, the arrogance and criminality involved in this could well bring about the Daily Retard’s and Foote-in-the mouth’s very public demise. The lies and contradictions are already spinning them into a spider’s web of self incrimination.
If the REV and the rest of us push hard enough and long enough, it could be a ‘Watergate’ moment in our own unique revolution. Nixon was a criminal sociopath who thought he was fireproof, but like all these types surrounded himself with incompetent bunglers.
Foote is a bungling idiot and his co-conspirators…the alleged ‘Leaders’ of the warped Westminster Universe are arrogant and deluded that they are beyond the law.
In the past they certainly have been..but with the mass of Scottish ‘YES’ constituency on the march and steadily ripping away the façade of the ‘participatory democracy’ con laid on us for three centuries, to reveal the squirming ugly suppuration beneath…the end may be nigh.
Only 8,000 ballot papers were issued by Scottish Labour for MEP selection.
I would imagine membership is way below that figure now.
They Lied through their teeth and a lot of people fell for it hook line and sinker. The Politicians lied, the Record lied (like other publications did too), hell I even lied when I said it wasn’t me that finished the last of the Kit Kats in the biscuit tin.
@desimond 03:02pm. I hope there is “some twist in the end game” and in the Rev’s thinking here.
My only concern is who’s going to cover the story if there is an explosive outcome? It may confirm that they were all fibbing (like we don’t know that already), but I can’t see Jackie, Sally or the other BBC minions reading it out as the headline story (but then if they don’t it will just confirm their more than obvious bias with their Coalition bed fellows – more lube anyone)
I can however see DR’s “We Were Lied To!” headline, leading to a story of how they tried in vain for the Scottish People to get more powers, a stronger and fairer Scotland. But even they, the mighty Daily Record with all it’s power couldn’t force them to create a better Scotland and even they were lied too, and even fell for printing the VOW.
Hey, they might even get a van and parade it about town.
Caz-m 4:14pm
Labour Party -13,000 members.
This will be the total for the purposes of their postal voting counting purposes!
Real democracy in action and just like the referendum, an extra 20% ballot papers to cater for the high demand and spoilt papers.
The Better Together crew are all over the Murphy campaign, so Boyak and Findlay will get the propaganda set against them. BBC and DR will be wall to wall for Murphy. Guaranteed victory for Murphy, get your bets on now.
Dugdale, who is a mere three year veteran, will also get the nod.
This will be the best Christmas present Nicola could wish for.
Dugdale working as Murphy’s deputy – I sense a Puppet, particularly whilst Murphy is not an MSP.
Well done Stu, the game`s definitely afoote. If you carry on like this Wings will become a proscribed organisation.
Fifi la bon bon will get her erse skelped by Nicky, week in week out, whilst the Smurph will have to watch helplessly on the sidelines.
“It’s no’ fair”, will be the cry from Labour.
Re Electoral Commission-you also have to bear in mind that they’ve been hit badly in the press for the last week or so as they’ve been accused of ‘not being fit for purpose’ due to the millions of errors in electoral rolls.
They are coming under fire from all sides but particularly Westminster so they are on the defensive & therefore unwilling to admit to anything being untoward in the referendum even if someone there did have the bottle to speak out.
Footie has already published his vow statement explanation in the Hootsmon forum, a fellow Unionist paper.
Right now Murray Foote is on the phone to Gordon Brown frantically asking his advice what should I say, we’ve already put an advert on ITV and sales are still falling, please! please! please! Gordon you’ve go to get me and the Record out of this hole.
Keep up the good work Rev Stu, the Daily Record are back peddling rapidly.
Off topic Wales’ Labour First Minister’s found himself agreeing with Nicola Sturgeon over the 4 nations having a majority over an EU exit when he was answering questions at First Minister’s Questions at the Senedd earlier.
From Twitter ‘Labour’s @fmwales: “I think that is worth considering” in response to @LeanneWood saying all 4 UK nations should have to back EU #brexit. #FMQs
I hope the SNP pick up on this!
Mr Foote’s quip on the parchment & quill will come back to haunt him,the Quill is the Emblem of the Scribe,& hiv we got one hell of ah Scribe in the REV.
“uttering”
Round 2 during the GE, anybody?
For those of you saying “what’s the point in pursuing this?” Well, quite apart from the fact that there is an issue of justice at stake – and justice is always worth pursuing, even if the pursuit is ultimately fruitless – and there may yet be consequences for some of those who lied to us, there is also the bigger issue of discrediting and demolishing everyone who participated in the dirty war against democracy. There WILL be another shot at independence within most of our lifetimes. To prepare for that, we need as many people as possible, especially the soft No voters who now regret their decision, to know exactly how corrupt and venal Whitehall, the mainstream media, the business lobbyists and every other establishment apparatchik were and are. The more light we can shine on these despicable bastards, the more people will realise that they were conned.
For me, it’s linked to this absurd idea that Yes voters “haven’t accepted the result.” Of course we have. We just know that it was the wrong decision for Scotland and in large part it was won through dodgy methods. You don’t concede the war when you lose one battle. If you did, the LibDems – convincingly rejected by the electorate at large at every single election in their history – would have disbanded long ago. No. You keep fighting for what you believe in. “Not accepting the result” would be claiming we’d won and maybe having an armed revolt against UK occupying forces. We’re not doing that. We’re just doing what Johann kept telling us to do and trying to win the political argument. And we WILL win. We’re right, after all.
@ caz_m It doesent matter about myself not being in the photo its the Wings Banner to show people we are everywhere,look for the one with the 2 Catalan guys with the flag & WGD.
Well done Stu.
I cant make head nor tail of Dougie ramblings – I’ll need to re-read it but it appears there is an email trail which Faisal Islam has got hold of which he claims are between the Cons and Lab.
Now he is sitting on them – why – he works for Murdoch so it depends who he wants to stick it to.
I’ve twice on twitter asked Faisal about those emails but apart from his first mention he doesn’t say anything else.
So I think it’s more than the DR, it’s higher up than that.
What Kenny said.
O/T BBC R Scotland Drive time tonight
Apologies but Glenn Campbell has confirmed and stated on behalf of Labour, that membership No.s for Scotland are in excess of 13000.
There now its official !
What must be remembered by all the nice genuine wingers is that HMG is the law. The civil service is totally controlled by HMG and the official secrets act. The EBC is totally under the control of HMG and the MSM will take their direction indirectly from HMG. Even Lordy smith was or is on the board of EBC, Hence directly influenced by HMG ( the establishment) or they are in soapy bubble.
How anyone thinks that this information or any other information which HMG doesn’t want broadcast will see the light of day when the EBC & MSM are being directed by HMG. Even wings publishing the true facts is like a flee bite on an elephants bum. RULE BRITANIA.
In a phrase more commonly heard from the lips of our unionist media, ‘this story is going to run and run’.
Wot if there are no emails?
Wot if it was all just nudge-nudge, wink-wink, tickly handshakes?
Wot then?
Vowgate? Is that in Edinburgh? Is that the place where Scotland’s independence was sold for a handful of magic beans?
What a shame we don’t all live in a fairytale…
@ The Earthshaker at 4.59pm
Oh yes-no worries there- the SNP have picked up on it.It’s mentioned on their website.
Someone will have to take responsibility for the creation and drafting of the Vow, somewhere!
May I state the obvious question?
Does anyone feel the three published submissions to Smith from the three parties headed by the three signatories, matches the sentiment, if not the letter, expressed in The Vow?
I certainly don’t! I suspect few people do. And therein lies an immediate and important constitutional issue! All the indications are that The Vow did indeed come from the top. Let us hope Stu’s brilliant initiatives will prove that. Never mind the final outcome of Smith, those submissions represented a callus betrayal of the democratic process.
More than feet should be held to the fire!
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 4 November, 2014 at 12:31 pm:
“You holding a Foote to the fire?”
“Why in crap’s name didn’t I think of that?”
Ah! Ha!
That’s what you have, “Alert Reader”, badges for, Rev Stu.
this has made my day 🙂 brilliant…it will be interesting to see if you get a reply
Thanks for letting me know Lollysmum, I hoped they would.
I had laugh to myself when I heard Carwyn Jones earlier, almost as if he was saying why didn’t i think of that!
O/T – I’ve just come across a link to this video :
link to facebook.com
from Glasgow’s Needy, about the Gala dinner. I think it should be spread widely.
Christmas present suggestion for the Nat who has everything link to amazon.co.uk
Oooooo, nicely worded request. If they actually answer or respond with the required info, somebody will be in serious bother. 🙂
@ The Earthshaker
Nicola Sturgeon plays the game well. She knew what she was doing when she challenged Cameron on an EU exit last week. Plaid Cymru agreed within an hour of NS tweet last week. She’s started the ball rolling & is gathering allies from outside Scotland along the way. EU membership is essential to the minority nations economies-without it those economies would tank.
This just popped up …..
link to twitter.com
#SNP increases lead in voting intention for #Holyrood: New poll for @STVNews link to bit.ly
not sure what such polls are worth so far out but they are incouraging and help to sustain the labour in melt down myth
@ Lollysmum
If Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland also agree with Nicola Sturgeon that makes 3 against 1 in the grand scheme. Regardless of the population of each country, this would make a case that has to be listened to IMO. Even better getting the support of other EU countries of course.
@Bawheed Bragg
At 5:54pm
That Amazon link is so “out there” I thought it was a spoof.
“Alex Salmond My part in his downfall” The Cochrane Diaries.
The write up is fecking unbelievable! Utter madness!
And I bet that it not as good as “Adolf Hitler, My part in his downfall. By Spike Milligan. Now thats a book worth reading.
um, liz, the article is from the 3rd october, the plea from smith is now past its sellby date
dr readers needed to submit emails by 31st oct,
4 days ago
@schrodingers cat – apologies, checked the time but not the date, doh.
Great initiative . I’ve always reckoned this was a breach of the referendum rules and illegal. Keep after them Stu
@ donald mac
NS is an internationalist-what’s the betting SNP are already putting feelers out for EU support. This could grow legs over the next few months. Watch this space 🙂
Bawheed Bragg, is that for real?
Has that cretin Cochrane actually written that?
He hasn’t noticed there is no downfall then ?
When Wales and N.Ireland agree to the Nicola’s ‘double majority’ mechanism for Eu in/out that’ll turn the screw right up on the Westminster mafia.
Bring it on bigstyle .
This is making my aching heart to start to flutter like a butterfly in rebellion.
Add in the Daily Record peeing their pants about the Vow and I’m in heaven.
Therapy for the soul.
It couldn’t get any better but here’s hoping.
MUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Just back from London where I’ve been talking to contacts in Labour. Apparently, Better Together were so complacent right up until a few weeks before the vote that nobody thought to get the party machines involved. When the professionals found out the real situation, it was too late to behave in a ‘principled’ fashion, hence the poisonous tactics of ringing up pensioners and telling them their pensions would be lost and threatening immigrants with expulsion.
Of course this is all coming back to bite them on the bum.
@thomaspotter2014 – that sounds like an evil laugh. LOL
@Bawheid Bragg
Aww! It doesn’t have any reviews yet! At least Torrance can claim he has a review by one of the great unionist trolls…
schrodingers cat
I heard that poll result tonight.
“Of those surveyed, 57% said they would vote for the SNP in their constituency, with 23% backing Labour, 8% Conservative and 6% Liberal Democrat.”
“This gives the SNP a 34-point lead over Labour.”
Are they setting us up for a big fall once the Smurph is crowned King of all Labourland. You can just see the headlines in the Daily Record.
With regard to the recent overly generous polls in favour of the SNP, it’s clearly a set up to make Jim Murphy look good later.
If we have learned only one thing from the referendum, it’s that the unionist media (and when I say unionist media, I mean media), is full of shit, and will do anything to get what they want.
@Bawheed Bragg
I’d love to read that book, I might order it in the library. I’m certainly not going to buy it.
Cochrane’s book could be: Labour- My Part In Its Downfall.
While there is little doubt the SNP are the more popular party I am gobsmacked at some of the numbers being generated by the polls. It seems barely credible that any one party could muster heading towards 2/3rds of the vote.
If it is true Labour are in some serious poo.
As many, many Yes bloggers, journalists, campaigners and politicians pointed out on 16th & 17th September not one of the three leaders had undertaken any consultation with party, Parliament or public and therefore had no authority and no mandate to offer this purportedly significant constitutional proposal.
This salient point was even re-iterated by some chinless Tory during the recent Westminster “debate”, yet no one in Scotland’s or indeed the UK esteemed Fourth Estate thought it worth pursuing with Messrs. Cameron, Clegg or Miliband at that critical moment in the history of our nation. Or even with loud, windy has-been, backbencher Brown. Many of their number, however, did trumpet ‘The Vow’ from the rooftops, declaring it a major shift and a game-changer.
If anyone is held to account – a big If – I strongly suspect it only Foote will thrust into the fire, as the ramifications for breaching the “purdah” rules are… well, what exactly? A referendum rerun? No. A resignation? Never. A weasel statement of half-apology? In your dreams.
Obfuscation, denial and delay? Definitely.
Well, at least we can rely on our state broadcaster and the printed Fourth Estate to exercise a thorough and robust line of questioning on this fundamental issue.
Meantime, more power to you, Stu, for teasing this out. It’s a slim chance the relevant, undoctored documents will ever come out but their perfidy is only eclipsed by their incompetence so it’s worth a shot.
All together now – hold your breath…
The polls
Decent people will only live with so much corruption in politics for so long before they’ve had enough.
Here’s hoping the silent majority have reached that point.
We need to get this stuff put through folks doors. This info needs to get out into the wider public.
@The Man in the Jar
@Bawheed Bragg
“And tremble false Whigs in the midst of your glee
You have not seen the last of my bonnet and me”
aye, and when salmond returns to westminster in 6 months time leading another 50 snp mps
what will cocherane’s sequal be called
“Alex Salmond My part in his victory” The Cochrane Diaries.
Now thats a book worth reading.
OT: Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Tears rolling down cheeks.
Sorry about that, having to be sensible on forums, wife with 24 hour nasty bug, nowhere else to let it rip 🙂
Great work there Rev, the answers will be interesting if they come.
Cochrane, what a leech. #CochSez hashtag should be going viral with other such random nonsensical claims to make him look like the arrogant arse he is.
O/T
If you fancy a wee read: scottishstatesman.com/opinion-the-turning-tide/
Anybody not think that this Double majority / family of nations thing on EU exit is very dangerous, Say England votes No to EU, but then compromises on family of nations and stays in with a negotiation with EU.
If they did that’s potentially the end of another independence referendum anytime soon.
Personally speaking I think everyone is ignoring the huge impact the passing of Lizzie 1st could have – not wishing her anything unto ward but I think it will make a big difference a year after that event happens.
Now that’s holding their feet to the fire!
Like a lot of other folk,I’m trying not to get too excited about these opinion polls.But if you are a usual Labour voter who voted Yes to independence as 40% did,why would you vote for a unionist party such as Labour in the general election ? Here’s a few reasons,in no particular order;
Labour have a fantastic leader in Mr Miliband.
Labour are in cahoots with the Tories,which makes them popular in the Labour heartlands.
Labour prefer to spend on nuclear bombs rather than reducing poverty.
Labour are going to get Murphy to run the Scottish branch and everybody loves him.
Labour despise the SNP,so all Labour Yes voters must do so too.
Just remember this fellow” Wingers”, Stew is not only up against the”daily record”, but the Westminster civil service, so he’s going to need all the bacjking we can give him
I hope the PMs office doesn’t hide behind the purdah for West Minster MPs v MSPs (and probably MEPs?)
link to thecourier.co.uk
Everyone set for tomorrow in Glasgow or Edinburgh??
link to facebook.com
Last Year.
link to witness.theguardian.com
Are we catching up? I will be in Deacon Brodies in Edinburgh at 1700 🙂
AS My Part in his downfall – Alan Cochrane Dribbles (Sorry I mean diaries)
Its being released on the 18th November.
I suggest we buy one SINGLE copy BETWEEN the 300,000 wingers and we ALL review it online.
Alan Cochrane – ‘that ghastly man from the Telegraph’, as Alex Salmond’s wife called him – emerged as one of the Unionist heroes in Scotland’s recent independence battle. Using his daily newspaper columns, and drawing on his long list of Westminster and Scottish contacts to plot behind the scenes, the veteran journalist mounted a mission all of his own to see off the Scottish Nationalist threat and bring about the downfall of the SNP leader. Now he reveals how the UK was really won. Through the pages of his detailed diary, kept secretly throughout the three years of the build-up to the referendum, he offers insights into every stage of the historic campaign. With his access to David Cameron, Alistair Darling, Gordon Brown and everyone in between, he exposes the cynical, the chaotic, the incompetent and the cruel world of politics, sparing no one from his withering observations. As the polls narrowed on the eve of 18 September, the increasingly bitter fight for Britain brought out the best and the worst in the characters involved, while Cochrane looked on. Unique among his media peers, he not only documented the unfolding events but came to play a part in his country’s biggest ever political story.
That was the marketing guff on Amazon. I expect Cockers wrote it himself.
“Unique among his media peers, he not only documented the unfolding events but came to play a part in his country’s biggest ever political story.”
Hey Cockers… There a fucking sequel coming.
Alan Cochrane writing of the downfall of Alex Salmond at this time is no doubt a tad premature.
Plenty to come from AS yet and this book, no doubt, is one effort that Mr Cochrane will one day he will regret. He may even regret it in just 6 months time LOL.
Anyway, back to sobriety. Yes. the Record needs to be chased over the Vow it published, and have its feet held to the fire to continue to publish articles designed to force the 3 party leaders to honour their vow, which promised “extensive new powers”.
That is a main basis, along with Brown, “near Federalism”, “Home Rule”, “Devo-Max” of the SNP’s and Green’s submissions to the Smith Commission, where the SNP define (and own) exactly what Devo-Max is, and the Green Party as well support a slightly different version. That is supported by any number of independent submissions, from individuals but also from various groups in Scotland.
Smith will have one of 3 results:
1). Devo-Max, which puts the onus onto Westminster which the SNP and YES alliance will be needed in Westminster to hold their feet to the fire, to make sure they deliver it in full.
2). Nothing much, apart from Labour’s watered down gruel. The Vow has been completely broken, Westminster next, then Holyrood, then Ref 2, then Independence by 2017.
3). Something in-between. Westminster is next to make sure that’s delivered, and to push for what 66% of Scotland wanted – Devo-Max, using all 59 pro-alliance seats, to hold their feet to the fire.
All roads lead to Westminster, 7/5/15, and a lot of feet are toasted. Pass the Savlon.
@wingman 2020
The Glasgow and Edinburgh Livestream events.
@wingman 2020
The Glasgow and Edinburgh Livestream events.
Cockers really only has one style, full of bile and venom for one man. Its sick. I often feel soiled by association, just trying to read an article by him, often leaving the article unfinished.
I literally could not buy the book, or bear to read his limited vocabulary of hatred, its so personal.
The Telegraph needed a Jockinthebox, hence Cochrane, they don’t want anybody with an independent mind or brains, Cochrane is basically a prostitute.
The Record is bought by guys for the racing pages, no gee-gees no Record.
Deputy Dug (what a gift) 🙂 will be getting herself fitted for a “Toom Tabard” anytime soon.
Good work Rev Stu. The unionist politicians and their compliant MSM are being held to account at last.
This is an important piece of investigative journalism that the MSM won’t undertake. It is important that the Scottish people learn the truth behind the VOW and Wings must pursue this. Will be interested in the FOI responses.
The political ramifications of this VOWGATE should not be underestimated in the run up to the 2016 General Election, when the opinion polls show that the Scottish Electorate are, scunnered and sick and tired of being treated as voting fodder by Labour ,the Tories and Lib Dems.
too bad cochers missed the finale
salmond excluded cockers from his resignation press conference
Can we stop calling them the three amigos?
every time someone says that I hear this,
link to youtube.com
Its really starting to get on my nerves. 🙁
Graeme Doig says
“It works for my kids anyway. But they have a higher IQ than DR readers who’ve never heard of Pavlov or his dogs.”
Why did I suddenly start salivating?
and what the hell is that bell? 🙂
wingman 2020 7.54pm
Brilliant. Do you think Cochrane will be having a book signing up here? Could be fun and games.
Stu
Great letter to the PM but I think if you spend a wee bit longer on presentation, it might have more impact. Maybe if you were to use clip art of an old scroll or piece of parchment that would add a bit of gravitas.
Honestly – can you imagine if Scotland’s Future had been mocked up to look like some tacky auld treasure map with ‘x marks the spot’ next to the Yes box (maybe with a wee open box of treasure and some gold doubloons scattered about)? How the press would crucify the naffness, the shitness and the sheer disrespect to the Scottish people.
And yet the BBC treat this like tablets received by Moses on Mount Sinai. Journalists?? Producers of PPBs and nothing more.
The vow was almost as tacky as the pledge before it which makes me think the whole thing has come direct from Blair MacDougall who will have been laughing his ass off that it worked and he is in the clear. The similarities are there in presentational style.
@john king 9.08pm
I really wish you hadn’t posted that link. Ignorance was bliss! 🙂
(John King – I think you’re getting confused with Pavlova and the interval bell)
John
Are you telling me you are developing the ability to learn from your mistakes at your tender years ? 🙂
wingman 2020
I’m heading to Edinburgh tomorrow night. Delighted there is a rally this side of the country. Vowed to go to as much as possible (i don’t make vow’s lightly) after the result and so far i’m getting to know Glasgow very well.
Keep going Stu
there will be more to find and once you have it getting it circulated to no voters will strengthen the cause
You will find the proof that Brown and labour concocted the whole thing for the Tories
Slightly O/T but following on…
There’s an Anonymous March starting in City Square, Dundee, at 6pm tomorrow.
Well done Rev! The holiday obviously got your juices flowing.
8=)
Alan Cochrane – a legend in his own lunchbox. Oooh, what IS that on the lettuce? Should I inform environmental health?
Tam Jardine says:
4 November, 2014 at 9:12 pm
“And yet the BBC treat this like tablets received by Moses on Mount Sinai.”
Well, there are similarities Tam, both stories are full of bullshit and designed to persuade and control the masses.
“Journalists?? Producers of PPBs and nothing more.”
Yip, a disgrace to their profession.
“The vow was almost as tacky as the pledge before it which makes me think the whole thing has come direct from Blair MacDougall”
Yes, he’s one of my main suspects – along with McTernan.
@Robert Louis
Section 29. “It is customary for….”
Not set in stone…They always have a way out….!!!
Why would anyone care what a journalistic prostitute like this Cochrane writes or says, The Scottish Telegraph has plummeting sales of 17000 or there abouts ,he is inconsequential his writing is inconsequential his paper is inconsequential,starve the rat of the oxygen of publicity.
An Editor of a paper that has a circulation of less less than 18000 making any impact ,talk about Hubris .
I see they are falling over themselves in the rush to respond to Stu’s requests.
Just falling over themselves probably.
Paula Rose @ 9.31
That’ll be it,
noo whaurs ma ballet pumps?
Aye, time for “The Nutcracker Suite”.
re Breaking of Purdah being a breach of the Edinburgh Agreement.
The EA is held up as Alex Salmond’s fine negotiating achievement, but did it build in any system for enforcement? Any business contract needs to spell out the process of dispute resolution with escalation to named parties whose performance of their roles can also be enforced.
If not, it was as empty an Agreement as The Vow.
Sorry, ‘cos I believed it too.
Mmmm, meringue!
@ john king says:
Can we stop calling them the three amigos?
What about Los Trios Paranoios?
Lordy along with the £10,000 Alan Cochrane was supposed to get from the Telegraph for securing a No vote ( it was in the newspaper so it must be true) Alan Cochrane has already released a book about the Referendum this year ( along with George Kerevan).
One of the reviewers kindly put about Cochers contribution -‘ a random collection of ideas’. I think she was too kind.
A clear case of Foote & Mouth.
Stu, proud of you as always , great job. I bet there will be fireworks! Oh well it is Bonfire night , Penny for the Murphy.
WHO REALLY WROTE THE VOW?
9:28pm 15 Sept Nick Sutton BBC journalist tweeted this
link to twitter.com
David Clegg Daily Record then retweeted it.
9:35pm David Clegg tweets about his paper’s front page
link to twitter.com
Now comes the interesting bit, check the timeline after this:
9:40pm Murray Foote the DR editor asks Clegg, ” How did you get that before me?”
9:42pm Clegg mentions Sutton and says he must have a time machine
9:44pm Murray Foote replies to Clegg and say that Sutton is a slippery customer
So, If Foote is the editor of the Daily Record, how come according to the Twitter timeline, Sutton has a copy of the Vow before he does?
These tweets have been archived for posterity.
The Bullingdon club end of term hop
link to youtube.com
@yesindyref2
There is no way that the Smith Commission will recommend or support Devo max sadly. It will not even be close to Devo max as we know it.
Some people are saying that the opinion polls are being manipulated. I am afraid this kind of a paranoia is doing us no good whatsoever. The polls were right about the referendum, almost all of them had No in the lead.
Keep our eyes peeled for Cochers book signing, I sure we could rustle up some greasy handed Wingers & ink stained handed Wingers, get the picture.
WOW
STV have gone all SNP 🙂
Hello,
Never posted before, can someone tell me what this means please? From the Guardian today,
“In a statement to mark the close of nominations, Murphy said: “If people consider themselves to be leftwing or rightwing, they will still have a role to play in the Scottish Labour party that I want to lead.”
How’s that going to work? Please help.
Reply to PaulaBee
I take it you are being ironic or humorous when referring the Labour “left”?
Capella honey – do you mean
Alberto y los trios paranoias? Recommend a search friends, not going to clutter thread – maybe put a track on off-topic, hits included ‘Snuff’ and ‘Kill’.
I thought all Telegraph journalists took bribes and planted fake stories at the express request of the unionist establishment? I thought it was part of the job description, no?
Hi Capella.
You started it – “Los Trios Paranoios”.
And while I was searching, you beat me to it.
I see this as being played umpteen times at the Daily Record’s Christmas wake…
link to youtube.com
@ Brian Doonthetoon
ha ha! every one a gem. Hope they’re enjoying it at the DR newsroom night shift.
muttley79
I’ve got an open mind on Smith. It depends on what the establishment want, but also on what Labour want which with the GE on are two different things. But it also dependes on what Smith can get away with. Or he might just be genuine! He might even be totally hacked off with Labour, he wouldn’t be the first. Much depends on how much though people want the “Scottish Problem” to be solved for a while.
Polls, yes, the paranoia is daft, and potentially damaging. They were incredibly accurate during the ref, and reflected all the big events like Osborne, then the Vow and last minute excuses to vote NO. As for tampering, one perhaps, all not. Ispos Mori for instance has most of its clients as businesses if I have that right. presumably such as market research. And to be quite honest I like the Mark Diffley guy, he comes across as straight.
Add to that the thought of Labour and Conservative co-operating AFTER the ref with the GE coming on, no chance. Scotland is an outback to them comapred with Westminster, and the Tories woud probably be delighted if the SNP caned Labour, as it gives them some chance of power.
Clutter up the thread then – I fancied some ballet.
O/T
Just watched Livestream from last night’s meeting at Inverclyde & they are clamouring for accurate information to give out to activists. Several mentioned Wee Blue Book & one went so far as to say that almost everyone who got one turned into a Yes voter after reading it.
They were asking for someone to contact the Rev to see if another one was possible. Stu-do we need to crowdfund to do one. How much will it take? I’m up for it & I know others are on WoS. Everyone seems to need your help with their campaigns so can we make a start on funding it? They all seem to need it as a tool to train their door knockers with as well as to give away copies.
totally, totally O/T
just to show you that the patronising lady was right and her Paul hadn’t a clue
London is opening its first cereal cafe and cereal entrepreneurs are on a mission – to help you find your perfect bowl
eat your cereal!!!
link to telegraph.co.uk
No no no…Yes
Here’s the same thing about an hour earlier on the 15th: link to archive.today
Not sure of the relevance but it is worth re a quaint ingredients oneself:
From DR on the day – I never bothered to read it until now. GB must have some interesting communications.
“The unprecedented agreement was signed after the Record demanded that the leaders clearly explain what they are offering so the Scottish people can decide if it is a better alternative to independence.
The agreement was brokered by former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour.It will give Scots who remain unsure about separation complete confidence that, if there is a No vote, Scotland will still be given much more control over its future.
link to archive.today
Worthwhile reaquainting ourselves with the DR piece – vow brokered by Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour after being ‘demanded’ by the DR (although to what extent this is just bigging up Gordo and the Daily Record’s input is unclear).
link to archive.today
@yesindyref2
There is no way the Smith Commission is going to recommend Devo max. The other two options in your post earlier are probably the most likely options.
I wonder if the enormity of what they have done
has struck the no voters yet.
(I’m excluding the 500,000 hard core unionists.)
We’re not just a small country; sadly, there’s a lot more to it than that. I hope all we need is just a little more practice.
manandboy @ 1.24am,
I’m genuinely curios.
Where do you get your 500,000 “hard core” figure from?
I have been trying to make sense of the ref result figures and
so far the only certainty i can come up with is a figure in the
region of 50,000 to 100,000 hardcore Unionists of the Orange Order variety.
Lets be generous and double that top figure to 200,000.
It still falls way short of half your figure of 500,000.
Every other category of voter, in my opinion, seems to be
open to persuasion, with varying degrees of difficulty.
I’m trying to establish what groups (and their numbers) are
out of reach and so-far all i can come up with are Freemasons,
the Orange Order and possibly Conservatives.
Other groups such as the BNP AND NF etc are an irrelevance in Scotland.
Their numbers are miniscule and laughable.
Stoker
I know many hard core No voters and they arent in any of your categories. Im going to be baffled till the day I die why a poorly paid care worker in his 40’s voted No or a Midwife and a Teacher friend, (who cant get back into teaching cause she took time out to raise kids).
The British Establishment will never let Scotland go, they only have to scare the swing vote numbers, this time it was pensioners next time maybe some other large demographic such as health care.
Maybe topple the MSM grip in Scotland and destabilise Labour in Scotland and we’ll stand a better chance – oh wait!
Unelected Nick Sutton, whoever he may be, is influencing the lives of millions of people.It’s
grotesque along with the concocted headlines. A freelance ‘person’. There is a better way to
describe such a person, a lying, greedy chancer comes to mind, is influencing the life and death decisions for the most vulnerable. The Media really have no shame. They are actually influencing, negatively, whether people live or die. They are a disgrace. This is how far British society has come down tbe line.
From the sequence of ‘tweets’, between Davie Clegg, Foote etc, it appears the Editor didn’t even know what was on the front cover of the paper. Foote puts his foot in it. Straight to oblivion. They all deserve what they get. They will not end up in poverty. In jail is a better bet. All the people who lost their money and their Referendum in Scotland will not forget or forgive. They await publication of the incriminating e-mails to see the total betrayal.
@Stoker and Manandboy
From the post “2015 General Elections: Results In
2015 UK GENERAL ELECTION IN SCOTLAND (predicted)
1st: SNP 966,960
2nd: Labour 701,873
3rd: Conservative 390,188
4th: UKIP 138,067
5th: Lib Dem 120,490
6th: Green 92,045
(Others 23,011)
If you take the UKIP and Tory vote, it comes to just over 500,000 – these would surely include the OO and other looney fringes 🙂
It is unbelievable that a vile, evil little racist, who blogged, Foulkes Pish, could be fronting Labour/Unionists at FM Question time Holyrood. Always first comment on the tanking Scotsman. How did she do it? No wonder Labour/Unionists are tanking in the Polls. The lack of talent. Away and get a job, instead of peddling Pish for an easy life.
Unionist politician free by 2016
Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15
Independence 2020
Tweeting tomorrow’s front pages today
link to archive.today
[…] link to wingsoverscotland.com […]
Do you know ,I’d forgotten I was a virus carrier so thanks
Cynical Highlander for reminding me with your logo.
I have just re read the Gardham article about Mr Wilsons comment and it occurs to me that there is an element of ,
” it wizny us ” as in it wasn’t the media’s fault the referendum was lost – very specifically “it wizny the Herald”
Does anyone know the circulation figures for the Herald and its wee helper the Sunday Herald?
Coulditbe that they too are plummeting?
Wings is flying. According to the NewsNow website, the “DISAVOWED” post about the Daily Record yesterday, was the 2nd most read story in Scotland in the last 24 hours.
link to newsnow.co.uk
BBC Scotland always liked reminding the YES campaign of how far behind the NO campaign it was in the polls.
But they have went strangely quite these days regarding polls. Could it be because their beloved Scottish Labour Party are so far behind the SNP in both Westminster and Holyrood voting intentions.
BBC Scotland are also guilty of bias in stories they DON’T tell you about. Nothing to see here, move along.
They need constant reminding.
BBC Scotland GMS do it again. They wait until 8.20am before they start to discuss an SNP story. This time it’s the Nicola Sturgeon story about the EU vote within the UK.
Why was this not discussed an hour earlier when there were more listeners. Most people will be at work now and wont here this story.
@ Dorothy
Not sure if my first post got through, router decided to have a small fit. 🙁
Here you go Dorothy.
link to allmediascotland.com
CynicalHighlander 6:54am Tweeting tomorrow’s papers today,
and my post at 10:31pm:
If this is Sutton’s evening job,it still doesn’t explain how he got sight of the DR front page before the editor did!
When did the Prime Minsister start using a tabloid newspaper Editor to complete a press release on his behalf, especially one that is supposed to be a joint statement?
Or does Foote prefer that his readership remain considered as just plain thick?
I do think the ridiculously high SNP polling results and coverage are a trick, the same one they pulled with the 52% result just before the referendum. Scare the secret Tories into coming out and voting against. It worked last time.
I like your style Stu. You don’t bother nipping at their heels you go for the jugular… keep it up.
A wee birdie told me that of the approx 11000 public submissions to the Smith Commission around 10600 are demanding full fiscal autonomoy (or the equivalent).
Kalmar @ 8.46
Try to learn to like good news, not everything is an anti Indy conspiracy. Membership is up, polling intentions are up, let’s ride the wave and put a smile on your face.
@caz-m
Wings is flying. According to the NewsNow website, the “DISAVOWED” post about the Daily Record yesterday, was the 2nd most read story in Scotland in the last 24 hours.
I’m afraid the story seems to have “disappeared” from the list. I opened the link and saw it was there in second place and was then distracted by a phone call. When I went back to it and clicked on the link, I was taken to an article about Glasgow council leader asking Alex for some big ideas. Something smells.
Tam Jardine 11:30 and 12:00
I have just read the full archived article by David Clegg. He really is a shameless unionist and anti-SNP feelings just ooze from his keyboard.
He documented such a level of detailed promises and assertions that will never be achieved, so that when it all fails, he will have as much credibility as McTernan.
I see the BBC have declared Murphy and Dugdale as a ‘pair’.
“Pair win Labour leadership backing”
“Former UK Cabinet member Mr Murphy is vying to succeed Johann Lamont as Scottish Labour leader, with Ms Dugdale standing to be his deputy.”
I thought this wasn’t a joint ticket and that Dugdale was standing for deputy no matter who becomes leader.
@Rigmac7.
Perhaps the article was deleted from the list since it was more than 24 hours old?
@caz-m.
Archive! Archive! Archive!
I see the anti-independence Weir group is having problems. If Scotland had voted for independence, they would probably have blamed it on us Yes voters.
link to imeche.org
Trying to coax something out of the prime minceters orifice could be quite offal.
@Robert Kerr
Robert, article was less than 24 hours old and everything else on the list remained the same (certainly the top 10 from memory).
The fact it is no longer there but has been replaced by an article from the Glasgow South and Eastwood Extra regarding Mathieson trying to fire into Mr Salmond about budget cuts seems just a tad fishier than the aforementioned Mathiesons breath.
Just got this reply from Foote to my email yesterday asking questions along same lines as the Rev. Smell shite! No reply from Clegg yet to same questions.
Dear Mr ****
Thanks for your email. The sequence of events was as follows:
On Sunday September 7, numerous politicians from the main No campaign parties appeared on TV political/news programmes and told the nation that they had agreed a “timetable” to deliver more devolved powers to Holyrood in the event of a No vote in the referendum.
The message came across to viewers as, at best, confused and, at worst, shambolic.
The following day (Monday, September 8) the Daily Record carried a front page “Record View” opinion article that was critical of this development and of the three party leaders. I include a link to that article below.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Over the subsequent few days it became clear that our readers were both confused by talk of a timetable and sceptical that the timetable could be taken as a guarantee of additional devolved powers for Holyrood. The Daily Record shared that scepticism.
To clarify any misconception about what the unionist parties were proposing the Daily Record requested that the three leaders provide a clear, concise and signed joint promise, in their own words, that would serve as a binding guarantee to the people of Scotland that there would be further devolved powers in the event of a No vote.
We believed this clarification was essential to help our readers decide whether to accept or reject the pro-union offer as they saw fit on September 18.
Over the weekend of September 13/14 I received an email with the words of the agreed vow that had been “signed off” by the three leaders. The offices of the three leaders then, independently of each other, emailed electronic copies of their signatures to be published along with the words.
As the Daily Record stated, Gordon Brown was involved in brokering this arrangement with the three party leaders.
The Vow, as you know, was then published on our front page on Tuesday, September 16. The original intention was to publish the day before but the dreadful news over that weekend of the horrific murder of David Haines took precedent.
I firmly believe that The Vow is one of the key reasons why the Smith Commission is currently sitting and why more powers will undoubtedly be devolved to Holyrood. Had the three leaders not designed and jointly signed The Vow, one or all would have found it easier to renege on the promise of more devolved powers. However, the experience of Nick Clegg after he infamously broke a pledge on tuition fees will have been a salutary lesson that they dare not do so.
I will not be releasing email correspondence as, to do so, would breach confidence.
I trust this answers your questions.
Murray Foote
Editor
@Rigmac7
You are probably correct.
I could end up being even more paranoid than Lost Trios Paranoias
It has been said that their is no-way the “Smith commission” is going to recommend Devo Max, but surely that is up to us. If we put the pressure on at every opportinuity, if we show the support is without doubt for Devo Max and with a majority showing of pro-indy MP’s at the general election we can ensure Devo Max is achieved.
And with Devo Max comes independence, how ?, by doing exactly the same as our SNP party did when elected to government 2007. By showing the people of Scotland that Scotland is big enough to run itself, that we do have the people and skills to cope and improve the lives of our citzens.
Many of our NO voters did not have the confidence in our country to run itself, instead they let themselves be convinced by the MSM and its scare stories to hold back. But with Devo Max and having control of everything but defence/foreign affairs, we can show the naysayers that Scotland can do it and do it well. And its a lot harder to scare people about pensions/business etc if we are already doing the vast majority of the work as normal.
This is a very good article and will make our opposision very uncomfortable with their past behaviours and it needs to be done, but I feel we must also look at the future prize of Devo Max and its importance.
Mosstrooper says:
5 November, 2014 at 9:08 am
I fully agree Mosstrooper!
“The difference between stumbling blocks and stepping stones is how you use them.”
O/t
scot2.scot takes off at 12 noon today. It might be interesting! I’ve signed up to get the news on Facebook.
You’re doing some sterling work Stu, getting the REAL news out to everyone.
I’m glad to see meetings beginning to happen concerning fracking. But I wonder just how much it takes for the wider public to get angry. Maybe with these polls we begin to see more general reaction.
Why I feel angry is the combination of having Lord Smith ‘decide’ our future. Here in supposedly left leaning Scotland a Lord decides and we say nothing. He is Chairman of Weir and heavily involved in fracking, we say nothing. David Cameron imposed him on us, we say nothing.
Here in Fife there is a new proposal, not by Smith’s company, that the coal seams be set on fire and the resultant gas released sold, but the main profit goes to the company. What is the discussion about this? The discussion amounts to a meeting with Fife Councillors to show that it is safe!
We gave up control of all these and the discussion is about some safety issues and how many local jobs would be created. That’s it.
Many who voted No said they were thinking about the future and their children, but watch while the future resources, and control of those resources, are used and decided upon by Lords and big business.
Given that Nicola Sturgeon has said another referendum will happen when the Scottish people want it to happen, which is effectively a majority of Independence supporting MSPs in the Scottish parliament, then if Lord Smitty does not come up with Devo Max, then by my calculations the next referendum will be within the lifetime of the next Scottish parliament.
Rigmac7
I don’t know what happened to our 2nd place. The Wings “Disavowed” story just vanished from the NewsNow website.
I think they start a different table for every new 24 hours. One thing I am sure about, is that the Daily Record took a pounding. It was the talk of the steamie. The unionist rag got plenty of publicity yesterday, all bad.
We could use the Margo analogy against the Daily Record. If we could all convince one person to stop buying the Daily Record, then we will win our Independence.
@ rigmac7 & caz-m
The Wings story was at no 2 when I checked at 8am. The Alex & Glasgow story was at no 5 in the list at that point.
Question. What of the two scenarios from the Smith Commission would quieten us down a bit up here.
1. WM gives us almost ziltch, maybe a few % of raising income tax.
or
2. WM gives us Home Rule, everything but defence and foreign policy.
What do you think?
“The Nationalists will never, in my lifetine, have another referendum” Jim Murphy 01/11/14
Well if he is the saviour of Labour in Scotland the new messiah is going about it in a funny way. I think the 45% who voted YES can be considered ‘Nationalists’ so the statement above alienates the upwards of 30% of labour voters who voted that way. Nice one Jimbo, keep it up you arrogant git.
Anyway I thought Jesus was the messiah not Judas.
@MochaChoca at 9:16 am (Alert Reader Award)
I see the BBC have declared Murphy and Dugdale as a ‘pair’.
“Pair win Labour leadership backing”
“Former UK Cabinet member Mr Murphy is vying to succeed Johann Lamont as Scottish Labour leader, with Ms Dugdale standing to be his deputy.”
I thought this wasn’t a joint ticket and that Dugdale was standing for deputy no matter who becomes leader.
Well spotted. They’re also putting it across as a foregone conclusion.
Looks liked Record is spooked. No comment facility since the “Vow” Don’t want readers to be informed of the truth.
@James Caithness
3. Loads a stuff, hunners really, knock yirself out Scotland, och your laughing, woohoo…oh mind,it will just be subject to a final consulattion, process and all that, that but shouldnt take long, oh look its just heading into that long grass, I’m sure it wont get lost, no no, it should be back soon, a few years tops, maybe a few parliaments even, im sure it will be fine, dont worry.
Two events Today Scot 2.Scot at UTC 12 noon
Million Man March at George Square 18.00
Any Wingers attending GS meet under the horses arse ( no the polis horses mind )
James Caithness and Desomind,
Never forget, that whatever is promised or ‘vowed’ by the Smith commission, will need to be implemented by the new Government in 2015 at Westminster. I fully expect the statement the morning after the election in May from Downing street to go something like this;
‘Of course the promises made to Scots needs honoured, and make no mistake this Government will implement in full the recommendations that came from Lord Smith. It does need said however, that given the implications for the UK, and UK voters, it is only right that this UK Government ensures these recommendations are implemented in such a way as to ensure that Scots and the Scottish/UK economy cannot be damaged. To that extent, prior to full implementation, we are pleased to appoint ‘Lord Darling of Morningside’ to convene a Scottish Royal commission, which we fully expect to report to the house by the end of 2015.
Note to editors: Lord Darling of Morningside, is of course well known as the key person who kept this United Kingdom together against the separatist threats from the Nats, and has considerable expertise in Scottish affairs.’
Call me cynical, but that’s what I expect to happen.
JayR,
From yours, ‘Over the weekend of September 13/14 I received an email with the words of the agreed vow that had been “signed off” by the three leaders.’
Clearly this is the ‘killer’ email.
As the contents formed a front page spread, it is difficult to see how publishing it in the original would ‘breach confidence’.
Perhaps you would like to ask him, as you are already in correspondence with him?
‘No comment’ since the ‘VOW’ they are scared of what the former readers will say. They will tell them what they think of sinking ‘paper’.
Unionist’s time is running out. ” hav had yer tea, coffee and last supper. Supping with the “devil” at Westminster” The DR deviants and their Parties. The Party’s over. Sinking like a stone. Hard hearted.
Jayr
Well Mr Foote has laid out his position .
He has given a timeframe, the reason for ‘demanding’ clarification and why.
He states he believes the reason The Smith Commission is now sitting is due to the vow. Now to me this is the important bit. It doesn’t matter whether Mr Foote or all Wingers or all of Scotland for that matter believe the SC is the outcome of the Vow, to me the important bit is ‘ The Vow’ is part of Scotland’s story.
Politicians or Newspapers cannot just produce a vow , which will go down in history with no background information as to who put it together. Gordon Brown cannot and should not hide behind ‘ a breach of confidence’-if he put it together?
If he put the vow together then he should be happy to have his part in history documented and be forthcoming about it.
It’s not a few Yessers who want to know about who brokered the vow , teachers in the future cannot say, then came the vow which lead to the SC but we don’t know who put it together . Surely even a newspaper and the politicians can understand that it’s not their vow anymore, it’s Scotland’s, it’s now part of Scotland’s history.
O/T,
Some people may find this story interesting, as the logical result of the unfettered capitalism of the neo liberal agenda which infect USA and now UK politics. I’m sure UKIP could easily add this to their manifesto.
link to archive.today
Robert Louis10:52am General election victory speech;
Like the humour. Who will be making that speech, Farage?
O/T Sorry but more good news.
I received an email from indiegogo re a crowdsource.
“‘Scottish Independence Live Events’ has completed funding. They raised £4,000.00”
Glad to have helped and thanks to all us wingers.
@Kalmar
The private polls for No were saying the same as the one that put Yes in the lead. Why do you think they came up with the vow and other promises in the last week? Paranoia over the ballots and polls are doing us no good. It damages our sides’ credibility if people keep pushing these theories without producing evidence.
The idea that the Smith Commission are going to back full Devo max is a fantasy as well. If you set your expectations too high then they are going to get scattered.
Well done, Rev!
O/T
for anyone who is interested in the Fracking issue,interesting article from the Institute of Water click on the link and go to page 52.
link to issuu.com
I’m not sure that fracking will go ahead anymore, if the oil/gas price keeps going down it won’t be viable.
OPEC are meeting end of november to decide whether to cut their production or maintain it, if they maintain it, the world will be in surplus oil/gas…and prices will drop further thereby making the shale ‘revolution’ taking place across america null and void.
Either they will stop fracking or give these companies subsidy payoffs in order to try and fight OPEC….but they have more oil and will win…so it’ll probably go the other way and we’ll start bombing a middle eastern country with large oil reserves….take yer pick.
Robert Kerr say
@Rigmac7.
Perhaps the article was deleted from the list since it was more than 24 hours old?
@caz-m.
Archive! Archive! Archive!
here here, if we dont do it, no one else will
Disavowed was still on “newsnow” under previous top stories untill 11.50am
link to newsnow.co.uk
Just a thought.
Why has not one single journalist in the Scottish TV or print media investigated “THE VOW”, other than The Rev. Stu.
A niave thought, yes, but a revealing one.
Disavowed is still there in the recent top stories section.
Macart , thank you, it makes interesting reading.
I can’t believe that so many Scots read the insulting Daily Mail or Daily Express – not to mention the Daily Record.
I also thought that the Telegraph was down round about 17,000 so I am a tad upset to find that the cretin Cochrane has a readership of 19,000.
Any idea when the Herald has to admit its losses?
@muttley
The idea that the Smith Commission are going to back full Devo max is a fantasy as well
agreed, regardless of what is proposed, the bill will need to go through westminster, i remember what happened to the last scotland bill when it reached the HOL.
but the SC isnt the only route to devo max, the SNP will put their definition of devo max in there election manifesto for may 2015
if they win big, they can then say that their definition of devo max has a democratic mandate from the electorate, which andrew neil or smith or labour can say about their definition?
if the westminster arithmatic is favourable, they might be able push this through. If it isnt,(even if we elect 59 snp mps) they will ignore us and we will be back here discussing what to do next
Why has not one single journalist in the Scottish TV or print media investigated “THE VOW”, other than The Rev. Stu.
Because they know it would open a can of whoopass.
Westminster lies
Five years of nothing but austerity which affects the vulnerable the most. Sanctioning and starving vulnerable people.
When the ConDems came to power the Defict was £80Billion. It is now 1500Billion. UK government deficitdebt. Cameron is a liar about any recovery, any improvement is just a readjustment. The ConDems are still borrowing £110Billion a year. It was 120Billion a year but they were raising more in taxes. (£110Billion more a year) The tax revenues have fallen £110Billion a year. There is not enough money to pay off any of the deficit. The debt interest is repayment is £52Billion a year. A total waste of money. Throwing good money after bad.Scotland us charged £4Billion a year in debt repayment, on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. The UK Treasury take the money and spends it but does not pay off the deficit/debt. The ConDems are raking up more debt, not raising enough in taxes, spending more on the private sector and attacking the vulnerable. Five years of nothing but stress. Independence is the only future.
Scotland is totally self supporting. Raises more in taxes and spends less. It is being dragged down by Westminster policies and Westminster debt, which favours the rest of the UK. Where less taxes are raised, more is borrowed and more is spent on the private sector (pro rata) Westminster secrecy and lies. A equal Union never. Independence
Unionist Politican free by 2016
Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15
Independence by 2020
Re Clydebuilt
The reason that the vow has not been investigated is the same reason that the vow got published in the first place.
Journalists, the various media channels, i.e print, TV, radio etc are all part of the Westminster Establishment. They will not undermine the British State. They may seek to nibble at the edges by casting light on a single party issue, but they will absolutely not do anything that threatens the absolute integrity of the British State.
The State/Establishment is their bread and butter; Turkeys do not vote for Christmas.
A a result deomcracy is permanently weakend and therefor controlled in the British State.
Putin need not look further than the UK for advice and best practice on how to run a nation state with an iron fist.
You can say the SC is a waste of time and expect nothing to come of it etc.
But if it is true that out of 11,000 submissions only 600 are not for FFA and the vow, and GB federalism and Jackie Bird Devo max to Darling, then we can justifiably say you have failed to deliver what was promised and therefore call for indy ref 2.
@liz
We can’t call for another independence referendum so soon. That would be a disaster. We realistically have one last chance at a referendum. We have to be as sure as we can be that we will win. Therefore, timing is vitally important.
@muttley79
That is defeatist talk. There shall be referenda until we have independence!
Else UDI or insurrection?
The Establishment can and shall be overcome.
Why do we need a referendum?
I have been reading what Robert Peffers writes on wings a number of times. We just need the majority to declare independence. Whether before the 2015 GE, we state if we win a majority we will be independent, this might not be a good idea, but on other side of the coin the other unionist parties will be fighting each other as much as us, likewise their pals the BBC and MSM. Or we declare for the 2016 Holyrood election. Party/election startegist must make that decision.
Can it be done.