Bloody rebels
Posted on
March 31, 2018 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Excellent, Chris.
They daffodils look awfy scary.
Her name is Clara Ponsati.
Nice one Chris, even the southerners have their rebels in Queen Boadicea.
Carla, Clara, the drawing itself is sufficient for recognisance.
Excellent work, Chris.
Excellent. Although in his day Morrissey was known for beating his fans violently with gladioli, so half-marks there.
Love the extra whitespace above Clara’s head Chris. This is one of your best. Clara is instantly recognisable. Take a bow.
Professor Clara Ponsati, academic. Currently under threat of 30 years in a Spanish prison, due to her political beliefs. That act alone, perpetrated by the fascist Rajoy junta in Madrid, should have a rapid and complete condemnation by the Uk Government and by the Labour party. Instead we have the UK Government agreeing with fascist Rajoy, and the utterly pathetic ‘Labour party in Scotland’, agreeing with the Tories (as usual).
This is about democracy and freedom of political belief. Something which the Tories and Labour seem keen to forget.
Dock him!
Get that photoshopped! CLARA. Craig Murray got it wrong, and its easy to get it wrong, but these cartoons are very important in this struggle. The books are records of our fight that will be read in a hundred years from now, when we celebrate the centenary of our independence. Get it right so future bairns are well taught.
oh, and stop going on holiday to Spain. Go to Portugal instead – that will really hack off the Rajoy’s of this world. Besides, Portugal is actually nicer.
I’ve come to the belief, Chris, Spain got membership of the EU too soon in its transition from Franco state democracy. Rajoy’s gloriously misnamed People’s Party freely admit they are an offshoot of Franco’s elite, all for ‘one Spain’, and Spain’s Law Society is riddled with old fascists remembering the good old days.
I still remember the outcry from Catalonia at the way the new constitution was formulated by Franco’s old guard to block their freedoms to secede.
Difficult to boycott Spain without harming Catalonia. For the record, I’m taking my working sojourn in Rome this coming month instead of Andalucía, not that two-tone hair dye Rajoy’s gives a damn.
Good cartoon this week! (Like Danton.) Place each image on a 1-foot square canvas and there’s your Academy Summer Show exhibit.
Your essential Easter reading:
Union? What Union?:link to wp.me
‘Isle of Dogs’ review: link to wp.me
Have a relaxing weekend – see you soon.
Vicious, she’ll hit you with a flower. Superb Chris and Saturdays wouldnt be the same without your Cartoons. Thanks.
Clara Ponsati has the gentlest of smiles =)
The thought of her, and her colleagues facing a sham trial in Spain is abhorant.
That hundreds of thousands of Catalan voters showed such courage in the face of Spanish police brutality and did not lift a hand to strike them back is an enduring testament to these people and to those who lead them forward to this moment in history.
I think Carla will love this Chris =)
Front page of the metro newspaper…..
Catalan “rebel” to fight back.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Bloody rebels Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland […]
Was the man below breaking the law?
Would he have been arrested under an international warrant?
An example of the need to view the law in the context “….as is and as should be”
“I cannot pinpoint a moment when I became politicized, when I knew that I would spend my life in the liberation struggle. To be an African in South Africa means that one is politicized from the moment of one’s birth, whether one acknowledges it or not…His life is circumscribed by racist laws and regulations that cripple his growth, dim his potential, and stunt his life…I had no epiphany, no singular revelation, no moment of truth, but a steady accumulation of a thousand slights, a thousand indignities, a thousand unremembered moments, produced in me an anger, a rebelliousness, a desire to fight the system that imprisoned my people. There was no particular day on which I said, From henceforth I will devote myself to the liberation of my people; instead, I simply found myself doing so, and could not do otherwise.”
? Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
link to me.me
D’oh!! I spent so bloody long fretting over how you spell the name of Boxer rebellion dudes and whether or not Danton had any accents – even Ponsati (one ‘t’ or two?) – that I got her first name wrong.
My apologies. I’ve sent a corrected version to the Rev. Once he’s finished his full English and is back from smoking his pipe in the garden I’m sure he’ll swap them round.
Just talk among yourselves in the meantime.
I’ve served my time as a complainer to the BBC,but I still have a licence so that I can watch programmes on BBC Alba. I recommend watching on the i-player the recent episode of “Eorpa” on Catalonia. (It has English subtitles, like most Alba programmes.) It features the town in southern France which printed the ballot papers in secret, and has short interviews with Carme Forcadell and Clara Ponsati.
O/T the Eorpa episode on the Commonwealth Games is also worth a watch.
Excellent work Chris, however could I ask you to edit CLARA’s name so that it’s correct in the picture and repost it?
Not like you to get a detail like that wrong!
Excellent cartoon Kris (smiley thing).
And to think that our own “Struggle” for Independence comes down to trying to convince a large number of ardent Soap Opera fans that they will still be able to watch Eastenders and Strictly Come Dancing, even after we become an Independent Nation.
This is the kind of thing we come across on a daily basis.
I remember Ruth Davidson “Warning” Scottish Soap Opera fans that they would no longer be able to watch any BBC programmes if we voted YES in IndyRef1.
If we could convince even some of the “Soap Opera” vote, it would be enough to get us over the line.
Pathetic, but true.
Has there ever been a better political cartoonist in Scotland? No.
Superb!
Hi Chris!
You must’ve been posting your apology as I was writing my comment.
Apology accepted, lol.
Now, go have several strong coffees and lie down! ?
Scotland kens a show trial when it smells one.
Wallace was taken to London, where ‘the trial’ would have the most impact on the most people and send the clear message:
“This is what happens if you try to resist my will.”
Rajoy and his cronies think along the same lines as Longshanks.
Edward I conducted a show trial on the duly elected Guardian of Scotland, on a charge of treason, among other ‘crimes’.
He had no lawyer.He was not allowed to speak.The verdict and punishment was assured before he left Scotland.The ‘trial’ was a mockery of justice.
Wallace shouted once before being silenced:
I cannot be a ("Tractor" - Ed), for I owe him no allegiance. He is not my Sovereign; he never received my homage; and whilst life is in this persecuted body, he shall never receive it.
We know what happpened next.
A contemporary monk & chronicler of Lanercost summed up England’s view:
Butcher of thousands,
Threefold death be thine,
So shall the English
From thee gain relief.
Scotland! Be wise,
And choose a nobler chief.
Stirling received one of his arms. Legend says Cambuskenneth Abbey monks buried William’s arm there, outstretched towards Stirling Bridge.
Does anyone believe Clara Ponsati will be found anything but ‘Guilty’ by Spain’s politically appointed judges?
Sending her there would be a betrayal of justice and must not happen.
YOU HAD ONE JOB !! 🙂
Just kidding excellent as usual Chris.. maybe need a wee holiday 🙂
Excellent cartoon. Could be printed off and sent to the political prisoners in Spain.
Good man, Chris.
Right subject, right time, right sentiment.
Just for a minute there, I thought the first guy was Jesse Rae.
Giving the professor a bunch of daffodils is a subtle masterstroke.
All parts of the daffodils are toxic especially the bulb.
Lycorine, an alkaloid, is the chemical in the plant that causes the problems.
Spain will get more than they bargain for if they mess with that lady.
Why does Murdo Fraser always go his holidays to Spain?
Because he’s a Franco-phile.
To various, Its got Clara! Or has a swift edit been done 🙂 and btw Boudica was a Celt, the Saxons were not illegal Immigrants into the British Isle until 410 ad . and finally as the great John Otway said ://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0v38af7DXv0
Great toon Chris 🙂
O/T
Check oot this Brexit Spectacular performance wi a wee bit for our pal Dan “We love you, don’t leave us” Snow.
link to cineworld.co.uk
ROFPMSL
Great stuff. Its interesting watching UK hackdom really struggle with Carla Ponsatí and keep their S_______d region out of it all.
Thursday, “A European arrest warrant issued for five former Catalan ministers is stirring nationalist feelings around the continent but looks unlikely to change the EU’s settled view of the separatists’ standoff with the Spanish government.”
Severin of The Graun Scotland region. Don’t stir your nationalist’s feelings up there. ed.
Tories threatening to walk out of Holyrood if there’s a second referendum. So that’s a political party saying no to anymore democracy, and abandoning those misguided voters who elected them. How charming.
Come on Ruthie! You’re almost there with provoking a Constitutional crisis all by yourself. You’re doing more for Scottish Independence than Nicola these days. Thatcher would be so proud.
Good choice of flowers Chris.
SNP yellow daffodils for Clara.
No red Labour roses. Since The Few Not The Many in that accursed party have supported her.
Got a link?
@Breeks says at 10:53 am
“Tories threatening to walk out of Holyrood if there’s a second referendum.”
Chris.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Breeks, let them. They have no respect for the Scottish Parliament and are continually demean it.
I can see The British Empire is still alive and well (as if it was ever anything but)
1. Russia (without any reference to legal process) pronounced guilty.
2. Catalonia (with full adherence to legal process) UK gives support for imprisonment of democrats.
3. DRC Congo (R4 presenter – ‘the challenge they face is becoming democratic’)
A full irony bypass all round i’d say, never mind ball-tampering!
Play the game!
I am Clara Ponsati and so is my wife.
Sedition and violent rebellion…who do Spain think they are fooling?
Great cartoon. There’s an excellent film called “Danton” starring Gerard Depardieu BTW.
@Breeks 10:53 am
“Tories threatening to walk out of Holyrood if there’s a second referendum.”
Fine. We’ll walk out of Westminster.
Does Spain have its version of a beeb gimp network?
@BBCScotlandNews twists First Minister’s words
‘FM said…those who supported (Brexit) would never be forgiven’
What FM actually said:
‘The interests of Scotland & UK will be deeply damaged. That will be the TORY legacy…I think future generations will never ever forgive them’
link to twitter.com
@Breeks
The Tories going to walk out of Holyrood, good that gives the SNP a majority again in Parliament whilst they are gone.
I suspect this will be little more than a stunt comprising of a single day, leading to a compliant BBC Scotland running numerous programmes on how dysfunctional Holyrood is. Wouldn’t be surprised if the BBC isn’t already building a store of clips to cover this.
@Chris Cairns says: 31 March, 2018 at 9:20 am:
Nice one again, Chris, as usual, but …
“Just talk among yourselves in the meantime.”, you got that wrong too – should be, “Just
talkargue among yourselves in the meantime.”Labour’s Brian Wilson berated the SNP’s Angus MacNeil the other day for calling Rajoy’s regime fascist and even sneered at him for not spelling the word fascist properly, even though it was obviously a typo.
Lo and behold the great journalist Wilson tweets a couple of days later and talks about “the base line” in a piece of music. LOL.
No Brian, in music it’s the bass. Base is what you are.
Think the Tories are only threatening to walk out if an Indyref2 is declared.
Would anyone really miss them if they did walk out? Ruth has been invisible for months and the rest of them are several bricks short of a full hod.
tories can walk out of Holyrood.
We can reintroduce a better anti-sectarian policy.
I am assuming on their resignation byelections can be called in the respective areas? Let them defend brexit in a Scottish election. Probably need to buy some disposable nappies FOR THEM due to loss of earnings.
So Ruth is donning her tin hat and playing to the “No Suuuurrender!” brigade?
Fight em on the beaches!, that’s the way, Ruth. 🙂
Excellent! Now if only you have the courage to go the whole hog and declare a yoon boycott of the approaching IndyRef2, that would really make my day.
The British nationalists may well think that a boycott would delegitimize a referendum, but the big point they are missing is…
A constitutional mess yes, but a mess that their precious union just could not survive it. No chance.
Fine by me. Bring it on. 🙂
@Archbishop of Dork says: 31 March, 2018 at 10:25 am:
“Why does Murdo Fraser always go his holidays to Spain?
Because he’s a Franco-phile.”
That’s not what my wee pal, wha bides doon the road, calls him.
Would anyone really miss them if they did walk out? Ruth has been invisible for months and the rest of them are several bricks short of a full hod.”
They should be replaced by UKOK journos, Jackie Bird gets Colonel Ruth’s slot ex beeb gimp wise. Brewer would be an excellent comedy Murdo Fraser. My Slovene girlfriend wont go though, not until he’s sold Holyrood to Travelodge.
Vote British Unionist and Journalist party, telling mega whoppers and smearing anyone that’s not a tory in our Scotland region, since ever.
Sponsored by BBC Scotland and Cambridge Analytic, names you can trust.
Maybe Robespierre in stead of Danton, Chris?
paul gerard mccormack says: 11:03 am
“3. DRC Congo (R4 presenter – ‘the challenge they face is becoming democratic’)”
Are the DRC or others contemplating democracy watching uk and Spain for clues to democracy, if so what could they learn?
A. Crush all democratic voices that do not agree with yours, use the force of your law to do so.
B. Fix elections and referendums by any means you can get away with, if you get caught, lie.
C. Demonise your opponents using state funded media or friends, this includes deonmisation of those at home and abroad, if you can’t find dirt, invent it.
D. If all else fails, have a war with a weak opponent you have deominsed, state funded media or friends will help you.
I am sure if the above were written in law, members of the tory and labour parties could happily abide by these laws! DRC and others have a lot to learn!
The Tories walking out is an obvious ploy to copy the Spaniards i.e. it’s an illegal referendum, we don’t recognise its result, ya, boo, sucks to you Nats. Which will be lapped up by the BBC.
Tory walkout threat is almost a year old.
18th April 2017
link to thenational.scot
Unless there has been a new one?
Outstanding satire.
Like yesterday’s excellent post by the Rev.
Let’s put the cat
(fascist tendencies)
amongst the pigeons
(hypocritical political system)
and see how the judges ‘rule’
and the politicians squirm.
3rd rare rejects will not be missed. Psycho bastards. Their own description. Crooks and criminals, They do not obey the Law at all. They should be in prison.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
31 March, 2018 at 11:01 am
Got a link?
@Breeks says at 10:53 am
Yup. In the National.
link to thenational.scot
I agree, good riddance, but Davidson is just a gobshite. It will never happen.
Great toon, Chris. Clara captured really well. Last time I checked her crowdfunder was at £222k, and as Tricia Marwick commented, Clara would sleep a bit easier, knowing she had a legal fighting fund. These individuals are not Tory millionaires.
I saw a really great pic on Twitter where both Aamer and Clara were, after court, both smiling to camera, doing that finger to the lips gesture. Like ‘shoosh’.
What does that mean, or originate?
Dammit you’re right Jockanese… The date is a year old. My mistake.
Misreporting Ireland:
“Fine Gael Brexit spokesperson Neale Richmond has written to the BBC over its “appalling” lack of probing of pro-Brexit speakers.
Mr Richmond is a regular on BBC radio and television, having appeared on prime-time shows, including ‘Newsnight’ and ‘Spotlight’.
“Far too many interviewers take for granted what is being said by Brexiteers; they accept without asking for detail” on the Border, he claimed.
Mr Richmond said it was “worrying” that the BBC appeared to “go harder on the Remainers”.
“I found it definitely on ‘Newsnight’,” he told the Irish Independent. “They’re allowing guests repeat untruths without simple fact-checking.”
In response, the BBC said it “continues to report Brexit impartially and features a wide range of different perspectives across our news coverage.
“Our journalists report independently and without fear or favour.”
It is now one year until Britain will be at the end of the Article 50 period.”
Irish Independent
Story is from 18th April 2017 @Breeks says at 12:04 pm as I point out in my 11:52am post.
So is the fact this is mentioned now a rehash of 12 month cold old news
or
Tory kite flying?
Crossed posts you at 12:07 and me at 12:10 @Breeks.
Easy to miss a date on an article.
More false threats. With no majority.
The Tories will be gone before. Bigots, misogynists and racists
The tories are like the teenager shouting at the door that’s it I’m leaving, ok says dad, I’m going now, ok says mum….. I’m definitely leaving…. get lost says wee sis, look I’m walking to the gate….. silence….. I’m back but if you do that again I’ll leave the next time. get lost says wee sis.
If only they could.
A picture that really does speak a truth that blinkered British nationalists need to open their eyes to. Nicely done Chris.
BREAKING from Pravda Quay
with Union Jackie Kim Ono:
Valerie,
Aamer was shooshing the crowd so that he could give a talk to the press. (He called it his favourite photo of the year).
Well done, Chris. Ever excellent.
Wee Reminder:
NORTH EAST SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE CONFERENCE (NESIC)
– Hosted by Aberdeen Independence Movement
Join AIM on 8th April as we host the North East’s FIRST Scottish Independence Conference with SPECIAL GUESTS at the Copthorne Hotel in Aberdeen.
DATE AND TIME
Sun 8 April 2018
11:00 – 18:01 BST
Add to Calendar
LOCATION
Copthorne Hotel
122 Huntly Street
Aberdeen
AB10 1SU
Where’s the foty of the *Most dangerous woman in Britain* NS then, remember that?
How about UK Prime ministers, there’s hardly one of them that hasn’t got a war going with somebody to make themselves look
*Strong and Stable*
Ruth’s threat to walkout was pre the vote in Holyrood last year. Nicola had said that she would seek permission from the Scottish Parliament to agree terms on a Section 30 order. Both the vote for a referendum and permission to seek Section 30 terms was passed by the Scottish Parliament. Bufffalo gal didn’t walk out, don’t know why this has resurfaced.
Re my post at 09.20 – it’s been altered. Who/what did that? I don’t like the change in the tone of my post. I did not type “BBC Caesar!”: I typed “BBC Alba.”
Seems impossible to get my machine to post the letters A l b a.
England becoming ever more xenophobic. Taking back control.
Spain becoming ever more Fascist. Losing control.
Israel becoming ever more murderous.Corbyn hamstrung.
The world of politicians continues to ignore it all. Bad for voting intentions you see
O/T link to opendemocracy.net?
Apologies to Chris, but the above is an important article. Here’s a taste:
“Not long after Baudrillard’s iconic essay was published, Strategic Communications Laboratories was founded. “SCL Group provides data, analytics and strategy to governments and military organisations worldwide” reads the first line of its website. “For over 25 years, we have conducted behavioural change programmes in over 60 countries & have been formally recognised for our work in defence and social change.”
“The UK defence secretary during the Falklands War when the use of embedded journalists was pioneered was John Nott (who backed Brexit). As my colleague Caroline Molloy pointed out to me, his son-in-law is Tory MP Hugo Swire, former minister in both the Northern Ireland Office and the Foreign Office. Swire’s cousin – with whom he would have overlapped at Eton – is Nigel Oakes, founder of Strategic Communications Laboratories. It’s not a conspiracy, just that the ruling class are all related.”
Fund over 224k now 🙂
link to crowdjustice.com
@Clootie
Sometimes folk can surprise you in the best possible way. 🙂
@exile
It’s on Rev’s banned word list because the phrase a l b a g u b r a t h drives Rev up the wall.
@ exile at 12.45/6
A number of words are automatically replaced on here – the name of a Norwegian Prime Minister from WW2 becomes quizmaster, for instance.
The change you have triggered is intended to deter people from using a slogan beginning with s-a-o-r, I believe. But of course it works with either word in isolation, too.
Perfect cartoon.
@ yesindyref2
Snap! I did refresh the page before submitting, honest!
Whoever gave the professor the daffs deserves a star.
The pictures of a wee white-haired woman clutching a bunch of daffs being charged with ‘violent rebellion’ are just class.
@cearc
Thanks, just thought I had seen some footballers doing it. Perhaps I’m mistaken.
It was a great pic.
RIGGING UK ELECTIONS IS JUST PART OF A BIGGER PICTURE – MUCH BIGGER, AND THE TORY PARTY IS IN DEEP.
Politics in the UK is a pretence – like putting circus posters up on the gates of Auschwitz .
“Another way to see it is like this: Britain has lost most of its geographical empire. And most of our modern politics is about the ways in which different groups struggle to come to terms with that fact. For a large portion of the ruling establishment, this involves attempting to reprise the glory days by placing the country at the centre of two of the nexuses which define the modern era.
The UK and its Overseas Territories have already become by far the most significant network of tax havens and secrecy areas in the world, making us the global centre for money laundering and therefore, as Roberto Saviano, the leading expert on the mafia argues, the most corrupt country on earth. And just as countries with major oil industries have major oil lobbies, the UK has a major money laundry-lobby.
Pesky EU regulations have long frustrated the dreams of these people, who wish our island nation to move even further offshore and become even more of a tax haven. And so for some Brexiteers – this money laundry lobby – there was always strong incentive to back a Leave vote: European Research Group statements going back 25 years show as much.”
link to opendemocracy.net
@crazycat
I think you’re more correct than me though!
“I found it definitely on ‘Newsnight’,” he told the Irish Independent. “They’re allowing guests repeat untruths without simple fact-checking.”
Look who BBC Newsnight hired, progressive liberal The Graun political editor Nick Watt, he’s lovely and he was hired by progressive liberal The Graun’s ex deputy editor Ian Katz, who’s now off to be progressive and liberal running Channel 4 news.
Exact same progressive liberals of The Graun that brought us,
link to archive.is
Cant think why the beeb gimp zone loves The Graun crew so much, let alone C4.
The Graun giddy with the thrill of it all.
“The editor of Newsnight, Ian Katz, is leaving the BBC to become director of programmes at Channel 4, one of the most influential roles in British broadcasting.
Alex Mahon, who started as Channel 4’s chief executive on Monday, said Katz was an “inspirational leader” with “fantastic instincts and intelligence”.
Katz has limited experience of commissioning programmes but a Channel 4 source praised his “history of risk-taking” and “promoting new talent”.
Piece in Guardian by McKenna on Ponsati case. Great fighting talk from Anwar. He was informed by Crowdjustice folk that speed of fundraiser was a record.
link to archive.is
BBC schedulers playing psychological games with us
Waterloo on last Saturday
Cromwell on this Saturday
– and Dad’s Army re-runs on BBC2 for the last year; and it’s wall to wall Hitler/Nazis stuff on the freeview channels.
I am surprised the govt has not made more of this opportunity –
link to bbc.co.uk
– blame it on the russians – PutinBAD!
“A 100m (328ft) exclusion zone remains in place although the police said the public should not be concerned.”
– contrast with the alleged “nerve gas” attack – novichok a curious substance being both insanely deadly and not deadly at all.
Definition of provocation: British police boarding a Russian plane at Heathrow in order to plant ‘Novochik’ nerve agent.
link to rt.com
Toryboy who made his incredible riches the old fashioned way, by marrying it, does just another bbc r4 war fetish thing,
link to bbc.co.uk
Dan Snow brings together the sound archive collections of the Imperial War Museums and the BBC for the first time to tell the story of World War I through the voices of those who were there.
If this Deadly Nerve Agent is so deadly, why aren’t the hospitals not full of police officers who must have touched the contaminated front door?
O/T
Scottish industry boosted by export growth
Scottish exports rose by 19% last year (above the UK average of 13%), boosted by a recovery in the oil and gas sector, according to data released earlier this month by HMRC.
Economy Secretary Keith Brown praised the “strong growth” and said it showed that “confidence” is returning to the oil and gas industry.
Countries outside the European Union accounted for 51% of Scottish goods exports in 2017, compared to 53% in 2016, but exports to the EU increased by 24%, and the Netherlands overtook the USA to become Scotland’s largest export partner.
Exports to the Netherlands increased 41% (to £4.32 billion), as did exports to China (£2.23 billion).
Meanwhile, exports to Norway and Saudi Arabia fell by 26% (to £279 million) and by 30% (to £131 million) respectively.
Exports of petroleum, petroleum products and related materials grew fastest in 2017, up by 46% to £2.69 billion. Mr Brown said: “I’m sure many people in Scotland will be encouraged by these statistics, which clearly show that Scotland’s export industry is showing strong growth.
“These figures are positive — across a number of sectors and across a number of global markets. There was also welcome news for oil and gas, with the increase in exports clearly demonstrating that confidence is returning to that sector.”
link to machinery-market.co.uk
Northern Rock , that is a question to. which we would all like the answer.
Not to mention the lady who found them and the doctor who gave immediate first aid .
@yesindyref2 at 1.50 and at crazycat at 1.51
Thanks for the explanations! I’m relieved it’s the Rev’s system that’s responsible for the changes.
I did mention this before, but for context:
The UK only became a democracy around 1918 and ‘The Representation of the People Acts” A further ten years, 1928, before all men & women had the vote. The EEC and its regulations was created a mere 30 years after this (1957)
Only in my father’s lifetime have the people of the UK had the power to alter and amend the rules and legislations of society, in this country, by democratic means. Prior to that the population was dictated to. His lifetime saw the UN & Nato (1945/50) The EU and its legislations came into being a mere 25 years ago. Arguably, Spain only became a democracy around the same time. The majority of EU ‘democratic’ countries only became so in your lifetime. The majority of these are still not considered ‘Full Democracies” – We are not dealing in centuries old history.
People must disabuse themselves of the idea of immutable rules of law and democratic rights. These are very malleable concepts which are very young and being constructed and altered, piece by piece, right now in your own lifetime.
Dorothy Devine 3.36pm
This “Weapons Grade Deadly Nerve Agent” has to be the Un-Deadliest Nerve Agent ever produced.
As I said yesterday, will the British Secret Service sacrifice the Father just so they can escalate the story even further worldwide?
Northern Rock
The english are messing about with the wrong person. Putin will not forget this attack on him.
Iain mhor says:
31 March, 2018 at 3:49 pm
…People must disabuse themselves of the idea of immutable rules of law and democratic rights. These are very malleable concepts which are very young and being constructed and altered, piece by piece, right now in your own lifetime…
Agree 100%. The principles of Sovereignty, and sovereign law by contrast, go right back through history to the earliest principles of tribal territories and boundaries.
Sovereignty is Scotland’s Constitutional Dreadnought. Democracy is merely the rudder we fight over to control our navigational course.
Without Sovereignty, and recognised Sovereignty, then we have nothing.
Indy2 says:
31 March, 2018 at 4:13 pm
Northern Rock
The tories are messing about with the wrong person. Putin will not forget this attack on him.
Fixed it for you indy2. You’re welcome bud.
@ Valerie .Aamur put his fingers his lips to us across the road to be quiet as he was making a statement to the Press pack just inside the court gate .
O/T but important.
Worth a read and some thought.
link to thelondoneconomic.com
I loved the white background,flowers and absence of blood..good one Chris.
And as for oor “ronnie anderson” I saw yer mate, all resplendent with your wings gold badge and on the front page too….good on you ?
A reminder that there is another Wings-night-out next saturday, 7th at the Otter’s Head in Glenrothes, full details,
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Come along, have fun.
Lenny Hartley says:
“and btw Boudica was a Celt,”
…..bet that’s not what the Romans called her though the first and letters could be close. 🙂
Georges Danton looks uncannily like David (Dickie) Davis.
REMINDER:
North East Scottish Independence Conference (NESIC)
by Aberdeen independence movement:
Join AIM on 8th April as we host the North East’s FIRST Scottish Independence Conference with SPECIAL GUESTS at the Copthorne Hotel in Aberdeen.
DATE AND TIME
Sun 8 April 2018
11:00 – 18:01 BST
Add to Calendar
LOCATION
Copthorne Hotel
122 Huntly Street
Aberdeen
AB10 1SU
link to eventbrite.co.uk
@cearc 5.33
Hope to be there, assume start time is about 7pm?
The Aberdeen Independence Movement or AIM.
Twitter Account,
link to twitter.com
Their first ever Conference is on 8th April in Aberdeen.
Get yourself along if you can, they are expecting a big turnout.
Conan the Librarian says:
31 March, 2018 at 11:48 am
“The Tories walking out is an obvious ploy to copy the Spaniards i.e. it’s an illegal referendum, we don’t recognise its result, ya, boo, sucks to you Nats. Which will be lapped up by the BBC.”
Robert Peffers (7th April 2017 – “Unionist Manifesto Update”):
“Just let them try and NOT respect the results. The EU and UN would be on it like a flash as the Westminster Government has signed up to both of their treaties that specifically have written into them the human right of Self Determination.”
Rock (7th April 2017 – “Unionist Manifesto Update”):
“I can say with 100% confidence that the EU and UN would do absolutely nothing that would make us independent in such a scenario.
The unionists would boycott a referendum held without a section 30 order and we would almost certainly not get 50%+1 of the eligible electorate to vote Yes.
No one in their right mind wants to end up in such a scenario.”
Before there is a flood of posters claiming that Scotland can hold an independence referendum whenever it wants to, the fact is that it has never yet done so without Westminster’s approval.
You can only prove me wrong if and when it does.
PS, The EU would NOT be on it “like a flash” because it is dead:
Robert Peffers says:
25 March, 2018 at 1:22 pm (The winds of change)
“If Germany has thrown in its lot with Spain they are, between them, signing the death warrant of the European Union and killing it off.”
“RIP the European Union, for except for now lying down, you are now declaring yourself dead.”
Northern Rock says:
31 March, 2018 at 3:20 pm
“If this Deadly Nerve Agent is so deadly, why aren’t the hospitals not full of police officers who must have touched the contaminated front door?”
Nicola and the SNP made utter fools of themselves by supporting Saint Theresa, in my humble opinion.
Nicola and the SNP made utter fools of themselves by supporting Saint Theresa, in my humble opinion.
But as a unionist Rock, you must be very pleased that they did though.
Duality of Yoon, title of your next book Rock, after your Rabbie Peffers at My Hamster endless novela.
Strange how no one spotted a suspect wearing a respirator hanging around Salisbury on that day.
I really can’t beleive our SNP Government have fallen for this Russia poison guff, what were they actually told by westminster that made them bow their heads and capitulate. Cumon SNP grow a pair
Foreign, Defence policy reserved because some people in Scotland voted NO. Let’s Westminster psycho bastards do what they want. The Tories appointed imbecile,Johnston Foreign Secretary. Not much the Scottish (SNP) Gov can do about it.
Anonymouse hackers have revealed a video showing Vladimir Putin in person engaging a “Mr Wile E.Coyote” (late of Monument Valley) for the “Skripal Wetjob” – a document trail invoicing ACME corporation and the Heath-Robinon company also exists.
RT news, russian trolls and scottish nationalist conspiracy theorists have made counter claims that the Putin character is, in fact, a Mr Elmer Fudd, a well-known field sports enthusiast and close personal friend (top) of the Duke of Buccleuch (bottom).
A related theory suggests that Wile E.Coyote and ACME corporation were the main contractors for Putin’s alleged hypersonic alleged cruise alleged missile, which Chatham House say is – “just … cardboard and shit, fucking pringles cartons, basically” – and can be shot down by our new F-35 jumpjets with STEALTH, just as soon as the gunsights are fixed.
And STEALTH! – yeah, just as long as those pesky wabbits, sorry russians, don’t use multistatic radar systems, longer wavelength radars, or multispectral sensors to pick up the engine exhaust … and all the F35 weapons are being carried internally and the pilot doesn’t use his own radar.
When asked for comment a govt spokesman said : MEEP ! MEEP !
– which the bbc reported as “conclusive and compelling testimony”
William Munro says:
31 March, 2018 at 7:27 pm
“I really can’t beleive our SNP Government have fallen for this Russia poison guff, what were they actually told by westminster that made them bow their heads and capitulate. Cumon SNP grow a pair”
Rock (16th March – “The greasy poll”):
“Now that the United Kingdom is at war with Russia and Nicola totally agrees with Saint Theresa, there is a ZERO chance of an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.
I am revising my previous prediction of 1% chance downwards to 0% chance. I will be happy to be proven wrong.
Rock (9th September 2017 – “Mascot Of The Universe”):
“– I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.
By squandering a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen – Nicola has set back the independence movement by at least 620 years.
So she is now flogging another dead horse:
“Scotland is the best place in the world to grow up in and be educated”
Why do we need “independence” in that case?”
May will be gone before long. April Brexit Bill unlikely to go through. 3rd May council elections in the rest of the UK. The rats in a sack – anarchy.
Ken500 says:
31 March, 2018 at 7:41 pm
“Foreign, Defence policy reserved because some people in Scotland voted NO.”
“Not much the Scottish (SNP) Gov can do about it.”
Nicola and the SNP should have kept their mouths shut and said it was a reserved matter.
Everyone and their dog knows that the Russian state had nothing to do with the poisoning of the British spy.
Dr Jim says:
12 March, 2018 at 8:56 pm (A historic breakthrough):
“The First Minister should have kept her mouth firmly shut on Russia and I don’t usually disagree with her on much but I believe her to be way wrong on this one”
The SNP standing “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa is worse than Labour and Tory unionists standing “shoulder to shoulder” against Scottish independence.
I think the jury is still out on whether it was Russia wot done it.But I do think the SG should have said ‘ we were nòt consulted ,apparently it’s a reserved matter.
@ Clootie – about 9. I’d suggest reading a book till then
And what would the reaction have been from the BritNats if the Scots Govt had declined to take a view on the Salisbury affair.
They’d have been savaged by the media wolves and the Alex Salmond RT connection
Confused 7.41pm
NAILED IT !!!
LOL.
You forgot about the Russian underwater drones that will be used for picking up the position of the new Trident Subs that aren’t even built yet.
Ye couldnae make it up…
Bobp says:
31 March, 2018 at 8:01 pm
“I think the jury is still out on whether it was Russia wot done it”
If Saint Theresa of England and her Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson are adamant that Russia did it, every Scottish independence supporter should be pretty sure that Russia had nothing to do with it, in my humble opinion.
Rick h j. So what , they savage the Snp if they do and if they don’t. F**k em , have the courage of our convictions.
Iain Mhor, re new-ish democracies..
Aye, spot on there, thing is though, Law is usually combined with Order, which must be respected during periods of social change, especially by incumbent representatives.
When governments remove our rights, we threaten to remove them- but they beat us and move the goalposts.
When people’s movements try to peacefully remove privilege maintained by force and corruption we are accused of being unconstitutional and outlawed politically.
Most constitutions are 50 years out of date before they’re ever written down.
In the UK’s case, it’s too embarrassing to write down, such is the flagrant inequality.
Rick H Johnston says:
31 March, 2018 at 8:06 pm
“And what would the reaction have been from the BritNats if the Scots Govt had declined to take a view on the Salisbury affair.
They’d have been savaged by the media wolves and the Alex Salmond RT connection”
So what?
Aren’t they savaged anyway in any given situation?
Ghandi, Mandela and freedom fighters in every British colony were ready to go to jail for their countries’ freedom.
Is Nicola so weak that she has to publicly support Saint Theresa’s lies?
Alex Salmond didn’t support Blair’s lies about Iraq. He was not afraid of being savaged.
Forget independence for ever if the SNP cannot stand up to Westminster.
Even Corbyn showed more courage.
The Russians are asking the english government what proof they have that it was them that done the poisoning and the english are telling the Russians that they don’t need to show you proof.
It’s a case of “Shut up Vlad and get back in yer box”.
Sounds familiar.
Bobp says:
31 March, 2018 at 8:16 pm
Rock says:
31 March, 2018 at 8:16 pm
Seems we agree totally on this one. And we couldn’t be the same person.
Rev,
I know that your a reasonable tolerant man, but I believe your site needs tided up, that’s kinda hard I know, when you’re happy for different opinions to be aired here, but I get a feeling of an undertone of evil intentions with some of the postings, and the intention seems, to me, is to disrupt the unity of “Wings”, in what is likely to be a run up to Indi 2.
Forget Westminster psycho bastards. Scotland votes for Independence. After the Tory unionists are gone. Leaving the usual mess. EU brought Thatcher down. The rats in the sack.
May is so weak she wanders the lanes in NI in a convoy. ‘Meeting the people’. Pathetic. What a loser.
The world didn’t support Blair’s lies about Iraq. Only the psycho bastards in Westminster. Millions in the world marched against the lies. Westminster kills and maims millions. Wastes £Bilions. Trns of debt.
Anyone with any savvy knows it is a reserved matter. They know the Scottish Gov can’t speak out about it because people voted NO. Except for some incompetent ignoramouses . Hiding behind a rock,
It’s Richard O’Brien and Rock(y) Horrors, I know it is!
Let’s do the Time Warp again 😎
Mind you, that was fun and interesting, not boring boring boring, mind-numblingly boring, bone-calcifying boring boring. Bor zzzzzzz
“the intention seems, to me, is to disrupt the unity of “Wings””
There is no requirement for “unity” here. I’m not Theresa May. If you feel a particular post or posts is offensive then alert me to it and I’ll decide, and if one user is doing it consistently then they’re gone.
BUT FOR THE THOUSAND MILLIONTH TIME, IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS A TROLL THEN STOP FUCKING ENGAGING WITH THEM. ALL TROLLS WANT IS ATTENTION.
Planet toryboy will no doubt be blaming FM Sturgeon, afterall it was Alex Salmond writing a letter to the RBS maniac what caused the 2008 City?wall Street crash.
link to archive.is
Brexit The Observer
Industry planning jobs cull to offset Brexit”
How comes no beeb gimp is ever asked out loud, why did you make Nigel Farage a household name?
There you have it, disengage with the
disingenuous.
The FM and Scot Govt have already washed their hands of Clara Ponsati.
When they came out with the “rule of law” pish, the writing was on the wall.
Let’s not forget whose law the FM was saying must be upheld:
Fascist Spain’s rule of law.
Anti-democratic, anti-self determination law.
It’s sad to see: The SNP has lost it’s way under Nicola Sturgeon.
It has become Sturgeon’s National Party.
It’s sad to see: The SNP has lost it’s way under Nicola Sturgeon.
It has become Sturgeon’s National Party.
So what to do COLIN ALEXANDER?
Do you want the job?
Anyway, thought it was FM Sturgeon’s support for Strong and Stable’s war on the Russian front what makes nation state Scotland a non starter?
Why do peeps on here gibber p!$h?
link to twitter.com
Retreat snd boil yir heid.
“snd” =”and”.
Theresa May is so precious about her Union she’s doing her best to destroy it, and it’s in dire straits. I applaud her efforts, she has my full support, it’s all money for nothing and chicks for free. Chick chick chick chick chicken, lay a little egg for me. Chick chick chick chick chicken, I want one for my tea. I haven’t had an egg since Easter, and now it’s half-past three so, errr, oh, never mind, that’s probably blown a motherbaord or three, and it’s time to go your own way, because I can feel the wind of change, she’s got the look and you need to listen to your heart.
Hmmm. Vote YES next time and it’ll all be clear ♬
@Conan the Librarian says: 31 March, 2018 at 11:48 am:
“The Tories walking out is an obvious ploy to copy the Spaniards i.e. it’s an illegal referendum, we don’t recognise its result, “
Which brings us right back to the natural law that says, “Ultimately sovereignty belongs to the people”.
Thus anyone else using it only does so by either subjugating the people or by being delegated by the people.
In the first instance the people will eventually rebel, and take back what belongs to them. In the second instance the people will sack their delegates who displease them and engage others in their place.
That second instance is illustrated exactly by this part of, “The Declaration of Arbroath”, which states that the king, Robert Bruce, who was the Monarch in the Kingdom of Scotland, was King of Scots and not The sovereign King of Scotland and it avers that if he, the king, does not please the people of Scotland then they will cast him out and appoint another in his place. That is the perfect description of“DEMOCRACY”:-
It is the independent law of Scotland and Westminster ignores it at its peril.
@Brian Doonthetoon
Be careful there, you don’t want the facts to get in the way of British Nationalist bullshit. OK Carry on.
Colin Alexander ; why dont you just fuck off.
. You talk utter pish.
I’m getting seasick here. One moment there’s a harmony of “Sturgeon shouldn’t have opened her gob about Russia” opinions, the next we’ve got folk intimating that if you don’t think the Reds are coming, then you’re a KGB operative. Now we’re back to Nicola’s a gobshite (true).
Bleuuuuurgh. Heuuuuurgh.
“Let’s not forget whose law the FM was saying must be upheld”
UK and Scotland’s, you dick.
“2/ Under Extradition Act 2003, Scottish Ministers have no power to intervene in the process and our police and courts are legally obliged to follow due process. This does not change @scotgov political view…”
(Sturgeon)
@yesindyref2
That’s the way it has to be unless you would favour anarchy. The case against Clara Ponsati for extradition will be scrutinised under Scot’s law. I’m confident that Scot’s law will find the EAW as being politically motivated and it will not be executed.
That will be a big blow to the current Spanish government, they might just have slipped up here big time by including Clara Ponsati on that list of those they wish to punish for nothing more than following their political beliefs.
The Scot Govt say: “nothing to do with us”, even when human rights abuses are perpetrated by public authorities in Scotland.
They just fob people off with: take it to the SPSO.
Everyone and their dug knows the SPSO was created to be an ineffectual Scottish Establishment lapdog by Labour when they ran the Westminster branch office at Holyrood.
The SNP are happy for it to stay that way.
From tomorrow, there comes into force the Duty of Candour:
link to gov.scot
Only time will tell if this improves matters or not.
One thing that won’t change is the offering of worthless apologies where no admission of wrong is given.
Such as: I’m sorry some Wingers think I talk utter pish. I’m sorry they feel that way.
The problem I have with supporting what Treeza is saying is proof.
You can’t accuse somebody or some Nation of poisoning when you don’t produce an ounce of proof.
And i wouldn’t trust an english politician as far as I could throw them.
The last PM to ask us to trust what he was saying when it came to chemical warfare was Tony Blair.
Nuff said.
O/T
Earlier this evening I noticed something on the Rev’s Twitter about bed blocking, otherwise known as delayed discharge, and some statistics which apparently showed it was getting worse. Much capital was being made of this apparently by newspapers such as The Scotsman which had an article and leader column on the subject.
The story seems to have come from a Labour press release based on an FOI request for figures on delayed discharges.
I found this odd since the published monthly reports from ISD Scotland showed that the number of delayed discharges have been falling slowly month on month since October 2016. December 2017 figures did show a slight increase but they were still lower than October 2016.
Even odder, perhaps, is the fact that the ISD web site is down.
The Scottish Government announced the integration of Health and Social care to tackle delayed discharges. The NHS boards and local councils work together and received around half a billion pounds of extra cash.
The system went live in April 2016. For the first few months the figures for delayed discharges continued to rise until October 2016. Since then they have shown a slow but steady decline month on month.
Not sure what Labour is up to but putting in an FOI for figures that are already in the public domain does seem odd. Odd too that little of any mention is made of the steps the Scottish Government have put in place to tackle it. The Scotsman make it sound as if nothing is being done.
re the YES word, get your selves a couple of YES stickers and stick them on the back of your wing mirrors, especially the off side as everyone driving towards you will see your YES sticker, or stick them over the blue oval of your ford or whatever badges are on your car.
@Thepnr
Yes, in theory it’s UK law – the extradition, but it may well come under Scots Law as well, as in her rights. Like you I think Spain may have made a mistake, LPW seems to think it’s more 50-50 though. Shrug, he’s a bit of a pessimist at times, or call it caution. And I’m not convinced he’s thought of it in Scots law either.
@Iain mhor says: 31 March, 2018 at 3:49 pm:
“I did mention this before, but for context:
The UK only became a democracy around 1918 and ‘The Representation of the People Acts” A further ten years, 1928, before all men & women had the vote.”
Nah! The United Kingdom has never been, by definition, a democracy and thus it never can be.
It’s not even over complicated to understand – The Title, “United Kingdom“, describes a monarchy.
By definition 1:-
By Definition 2:- democracy:- noun: democracy:-
Quite candouredly my dear, you’re talking utter pish, and may be in need of some primary care and attention.
auld highlander – Ah hivnae got a car, should I just stick them oam ma kmees? 🙂
Speaking of human rights abuses and bed blocking.
TWICE Social Workers have lied to try and force an elderly person I know, into a care home against their will, as the quickest way to get them out of a hospital bed. First time saying the person had gone senile. Second time, pretending the elderly person had decided they wanted to go into a care home.
That’s abduction and false imprisonment but, it’s an elderly person, so no chance of getting those Social Workers struck off by complaining to the SSSC or SPSO or Scot Govt.
In Scotland if you’re a nobody: poor, sick or disabled or elderly you don’t have human rights unless you can afford to pay for a lawyer privately, as the Scottish Legal Aid Board are pro-Establishment too and won’t fund upholding of human rights for the poor, sick or disabled.
As for the Scottish Govt, they talk the talk but when it comes to it, they don’t want to know. Likewise many SNP MSPs. Once an election is over, they wouldn’t give you the smell off their keech unless there’s something in it for them.
@TJenny
These Yes stickers should fit your knees perfectly or you could stick one on your mug for work. You might want to get some as you never know when they could come in handy 🙂
Suitable too for auld highlanders suggestion on the car mirrors.
link to ayemail.scot
Thepnr – ‘for work’ – heaven forfend! You know I’m a lady of leisure. 🙂
@yesindyref2
You’re right of course, the law applying to the EAW is European law as adopted by the UK government and consequently applies to Scot’s law.
However Clara Ponsati will undoubtedly get a fair hearing in this country. That’s as much as we could ask in any trial.
It seems the russians have finally uncovered the secret recipe of the yorkshire pudding, this has caused fear and alarm throughout the civilised world and yorkshire as well, ( lol ).
If the russians decide to hang their yorkshire puddings on people’s door handles it seems it would cause a massive dose of infection that would spread across the whole of the world, and the emergency supplies of immodium would not be enough to contain it, you are all doomed i tell you, but i will be ok, my stockpiles of immodium will see me through any russian attack, and i have a room full of toilet roll and dettol to get me over the first flush.
Mind how you go now lol
@TJenny
The post wasn’t aimed at you in particular, just my musings 🙂
Speaking of extradition:
The USA Govt tried to get the Scottish “tartan terrorist” Adam Busby extradited to stand trial in the USA.
He’s apparently now bed bound in a care home, has dementia and doesn’t know what year it is. Nevertheless, the USA still wanted him extradited to stand trial.
The application was refused by a Scots Court.
So, sometimes Scots Courts do make the right decision. I just hope the Courts make the right decision for Ms Ponsati too.
Since the Salisbury poisonings I’ve noticed many posters on this site have become instant experts on nerve agents and the delivery of them. Invariably these self proclaimed experts, who say “the Russians didnae dae it” , know for a fact that British secret services did it, for reasons obscure.
One even implies that the establishment would like the father to die so that further blame could be applied to Moscow.
There is no doubt that the Westminster Government has done many bad things but not everything bad in the world is done by the Westminster Government, as some seem to think,
I would only point out that Putin or his agents have form in this area. Surely nobody has forgotten so soon the cruel death of Alexander Litvinenko from polonium poisoning.
He survived long enough to tell everybody, including his wife, that he had had a cup of tea in a restaurant in London with two Russians. The teapot, the table and the area around it were found to be extremely radioactive. The aircraft seats occupied by the Russians returning to Moscow were also contaminated. Polonium is not something you can buy in Boots. It must be produced in a nuclear reactor and is strictly controlled by the state. The polonium trail led directly back to Russia.
I am also old enough to remember the poisoning of Georgi Markov, a Bulgarian dissident, who sought asylum in Britain. He was stabbed in the leg by an umbrella tip coated with ricin and died a few days later. After the end of the Soviet Union the Bulgarians admitted that their KGB equivalent carried out the murder on orders from Moscow.
No doubt British agents have done bad things but the other guys are likely candidates in this case.
@William Munro says: 31 March, 2018 at 7:27 pm:
“I really can’t beleive our SNP Government have fallen for this Russia poison guff … “
You’re right to, “not believe”, William, because they obviously have not, “fallen for it”. There are several different commenters here on Wings who have explained just how clever a move it was by Nicola Sturgeon to state she agreed with the Prime Minister.
I haven’t done so before – but, just for you –
What Nicola said was along the lines of, “On the information given to me by the United Kingdom Government I agree their evidence points to the Russians being guilty”
So if the Russians were proven to be guilty then the SG/SNP and Nicola were not going to be crucified by the biased MSM and SMSM for holding the opposite views.
If the Russians were proven NOT to be guilty then all Nicola needs do is to point out the only evidence she had was from the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom herself and perhaps also from the Privy Council itself as she is a member of that Privy #Council. Thus the SMSM and MSM have nothing to make their usual SNP BAAAAD! Screaming at the Moon histrionics, splattered all over the media.
So, just why have certain commenters like you, right here on Wings, been bleating Nicola Sturgeon, SG and SNP BAAAD! about it since she made her statement? And that bleating in spite of several Wingers having explained her clever logic here on Wings?
There seems to be a small clique here on Wings who imagine other Wings commenters are a bunch of illogical idiots when all real evidence points to quite a different, (logical), conclusion.
Fireproofjim says:
31 March, 2018 at 11:56 pm
Since the Salisbury poisonings I’ve noticed many posters on this site have become instant experts on nerve agents
————
i am fully qualified and trained in NBC warfair, to deal with and work inside areas contaminatated with neurotoxic agents. indeed, i have personal experience of doing exactlty that.
i think the reaction of people on wings is not because they suddenly think the ruskis are now the good guys, it is just that their faith in westminsters ability to tell the truth about anything has been seriously eroded over the last 5 years.
who can blame them ?
The figures show there is 1.2 persons a day in Scotland ‘bedblocking’. Out of a population of 5.2Million. A very good record.
Sometime ago an elderly person could not return to their house because they had been admitted to hospital but could not return to their own home. They could no longer look after themselves. They remained in a hospital ward which was more often used for day care. They had vacant beds at night.
The person had been offered meals on wheels, previously, but decided against them. They were offered several atternative accommodation but refused several. They were offered a place in a res home which would have been quite suitable and agreeable. Until the wheels on meals man was spotted delivering the food.
Social care ensured many elderly people can remain in their own home with relevant support. Much cheaper too. Res home care is £600 per week. Hospital care is £600 a day.
The Scottish Gov has not only increased the funding for Healthcare £2Billion a year. To £12.5Billion More (pro rata) than the rest of the UK where it has been cut. Westminster unionists are trying to cut NHS funding £4Billion a year. From 2015 to 2000. It isn’t working. They have now had to put more in to relieve the cuts. A sticking plaster.
Minimum pricing in May will reduce healthcare costs.
Watching Sky News Papers review and it was an all out attack on the hapless Corbyn. No balance to it either, both guests gave him both barrels.
The english media are either attacking him for supporting Russia or not supporting Israel.
The english establishment have had enough of Corbyn and his style of politics. They want to return to the good old days when Westminster was run by either Blue Tories or Red Tories.
Life was so much simpler in those days.
Their big picture will be to get rid of Corbyn and strip powers away from the devolved Parliaments.
But we will be one step ahead of the english and announce IndyRef2 hopefully in Spring/Autumn next year.
Fireproofjim
Is it not less the whodunnit but the whole tory war with Russia shitstorm or rather the tory politics of it all, that counts?
Tories and the BBC clearly decided to make these attempted murders into something far far more than anything ever seen before. Similar murders or attempted murders, different UK govs but its clearly being exploited by the whole of our tory masterdom, from all the BBC led msm, to all kinds of unionists smearing SNP Scots gov.
Tories are assuming Russia has got the sense to not retaliate in any serious economic or military and so far they’re right.
Fireproofjim
the fact that many people are willing to believe pravda before they would believe the bbc is, i think, an important point.
btw, this post in no way tries to apportion blame to either side. just a statement of fact
@Fireproofjim
Can you give a reasonable reason why The President of Russia would want to murder an old British spy, that had been released from Russian prison by The President of Russia, and his daughter,
before an election and just before Russia hosts the biggest show on earth,
people always say Putin is ruthless but he is not stupid.
Moscow confronts London with 14 questions on ‘fabricated’ Skripal case.
Russia’s Embassy in London has sent a list of 14 questions to the UK Foreign Ministry, demanding that it reveals details of the investigation into the nerve-agent poisoning of former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter.
1. Why has Russia been denied the right of consular access to the two Russian citizens, who came to harm on British territory?
2. What specific antidotes and in what form were the victims injected with? How did such antidotes come into the possession of British doctors at the scene of the incident?
3. On what grounds was France involved in technical cooperation in the investigation of the incident, in which Russian citizens were injured?
4. Did the UK notify the OPCW (Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) of France’s involvement in the investigation of the Salisbury incident?
5. What does France have to do with the incident, involving two Russian citizens in the UK?
6. What rules of UK procedural legislation allow for the involvement of a foreign state in an internal investigation?
7. What evidence was handed over to France to be studied and for the investigation to be conducted?
8. Were the French experts present during the sampling of biomaterial from Sergei and Yulia Skripal?
9. Was the study of biomaterials from Sergei and Yulia Skripal conducted by the French experts and, if so, in which specific laboratories?
10. Does the UK have the materials involved in the investigation carried out by France?
11. Have the results of the French investigation been presented to the OPCW Technical Secretariat?
12. Based on what attributes was the alleged “Russian origin” of the substance used in Salisbury established?
13. Does the UK have control samples of the chemical warfare agent, which British representatives refer to as “Novichok”?
14. Have the samples of a chemical warfare agent of the same type as “Novichok” (in accordance to British terminology) or its analogues been developed in the UK?
link to rt.com
Until now I haven’t made a single post on the Skripal affair for one single reason. Nobody knows yet the true facts yet and all is speculation.
So what’s the point?
@Thepnr
Ref Skripal, ditto.
Rev@9.56pm
While i get where you are coming from, that does not help those who do not engage with the trolls (and yes, i stand guilty sometimes) but are forced to wade through their seemingly endless dross, on a daily basis now.
I would go further and say that they feel emboldened, by your unwillingness to censure them, to bum rush the site with utter pish.
It is really getting beyond a joke.
THE best indy site is being systematically ruined as a result, and it absolutely WILL get worse.
The problem I have is that a Tory is asking me to trust them.
Not just a Tory, But a Lying, anti-Scottish democracy, english Tory.
I just can’t bring myself round to doing that.
“BUT FOR THE THOUSAND MILLIONTH TIME, IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS A TROLL THEN STOP FUCKING ENGAGING WITH THEM. ALL TROLLS WANT IS ATTENTION.”
If only the junkies/suckers would do it for more the proverbial 5 minutes we might get less f**ked up threads and more ideas, education for Indyref-II.
Wings was always a melting pot of opinions.
@ Fireproofjim – I watched a Russian chat show a couple of days ago where Litvinenko’s father and brother came on and sat on a sofa next to the Russian politician who Westminster says poisoned his son. He was perfectly amicable.
Litvinenko’s father accuses an Alexander Goldfarb of the murder. Goldfarb, I believe, lives in the US.
I can’t link to it as I’m on my tablet.
Who is telling the truth?
Regards Skripal I did post that it could be a plot between the UK, the US and Russia to increase tensions so they could spend more on defence and nobody would care. But some facts have come to light that have some bearing on this theory.
First is the Winter Olympics and the new accord between north and south, then the apparent meeting between China and North Korea, which has been developing nuclear weapons. Then there’s the successful launch of two Trident II D5 Life Extension missiles by the USS Nebraska. Well, they say life extension, but this could hide a range extension.
Next I looked into some old reports of the Viking landers, and it seems likely that rather than just fail, they were interfered with, having discovered Life on Mars.
Well, it becomes evident that it’s not just molecular level life discovered, but pseudo-pod level and indeed higher forms. The conclusion is clear: HG Wells was NOT a sifi writer, but a historian, and they’re on their way again. So clearly this is a concerted world effort to build up defences so as to try to repel an invasion.
In the next episode I explore the Kennedy killing, and show that we not only don’t know who killed Kennedy, but what.
Mmm, Happy Easter. Enjoy the egg rolling.
@geeo says: 1 April, 2018 at 12:27 am:
I would go further and say that they feel emboldened, by your unwillingness to censure them, to bum rush the site with utter pish.
You are correct, geeo, The better policy is to out them for what they are – Then ignore them.
Note how Rock has a never ending attack upon me yet I rarely respond to him/her/it, the result is he adopts another nick-name and tries again and continues to attack as usual.
Simply ignoring a troll works well, but these people are not trolls – they have a quite different motive.
Those already outed – ignore them. They will change name and return – out them again – then ignore them again.
They are not trolls, they are not flamers, they have a job to do, they are not doing it for the hell of it, so don’t let them do it.
After their job is shown to not be working they will go away but return with a different form of attack.
In case you have not noticed the Westminster Establishment are becoming increasingly desperate – and it shows – but what it shows is that the end game for them has begun, and they know it has.
Russian Embassy Doubts UK Explanations Behind Search of Russian Plane
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – UK Home Office explanations aggravate doubts about real reasons behind the search on board the Russian passenger aircraft in London, the Russian embassy in the United Kingdom said in a Saturday statement.
“This is a clear attempt by the Minister to divert attention from the provocative actions by British law enforcement officers who have tried to search the aircraft without the captain present, in violation of the existing rules. Mr Wallace’s logic is difficult to comprehend… This official explanation only aggravates our doubts as to the real intentions of the team that has tried to perform an unlawful search,” the statement said.
“Aeroflot and Russian airports observe strict international security standards and didn’t give rise to doubts in that respect. Moreover, it is quite strange to search for ‘drugs and firearms’ intended to be ‘brought into the country’ in an empty airplane ready to welcome departing passengers,” the embassy added.
On Friday, an Aeroflot plane was unexpectedly searched at London’s Heathrow Airport. The Russian Embassy in London sent a note to the government requesting an explanation for the act. Commenting on the issue, UK Minister of State for Security Ben Wallace said that UK authorities conducted a routine search of the Russian aircraft in Heathrow Airport within the standard procedures against arms and drug trafficking.
link to sputniknews.com
Its a funny old world
We are told that the russians are the likely suspects, take that into a court of law and see how you get on.
We do have evidence of our own government agencies murdering people, we have all seen it with our own eyes, now i am not a fan of the IRA by any means, but to see three unarmed people gunned down in Gibralter in cold blood by the SAS, shows what our government thinks of the rule of law.
We had innocent irish men and women blamed and jailed for bombing pubs in Birmingham, and they new they where innocent civilians and one of them died in prison, and not one of the people who set them up ever did one minute of prison time, and some people wonder why we don’t trust the police and security forces in the UK.
Btw, the irish thing was just my way of giving a few examples of what they get up to in our name
Nice one donor Anonymous Winger (about an hour ago).
Lookin’ forward to meeting with ye next Saturday frogesque x.
A powerful one Chris… Bloody rebels 5/6.
A different signature… no
’18.That’s new 🙂
45 comments to go until comment number 750,000.
Who is it gonna be..?
Visca Clara x.
I see the BBC TV is now in FULL blatant pro brexit propaganda mode. In between programmes, we are now treated to Government advertisements, with what appears to be ‘ordinary folk’ going about their business, and for example, going into the newsagents, and asking for ‘a pint of milk..oh, and a brexit please’. The voiceover then tells the viewer that they can allow the BBC to tell them what brexit will mean for them.
Honestly, words fail me. The whole style of these government advertisements is to make the disaster of brexit seem like an ‘ok’ everyday’ thing, like getting the milk. It is full-on propaganda, masquerading as ‘informative output’. And seriously, who in their right mind would TRUST the state run and Downing Street controlled blatantly biased BBC tell them anything.
For balance, I look forward to similar advertisements by the BBC, with Scottish folk, going into the shops, and when the shopkeeper helpfully says ‘oh, and would you like a brexit with that, the person replies ‘No f*****g chance, do you think I’m mad like they are in England’.
With every passing day, the BBC loses all credibility, and asserts itself as the world’s largest state funded propaganda apparatus, whilst telling everybody stupid enough to believe them, that they are ‘impartial’. Who needs cambridge analytica, when you have the world’s largest state funded propaganda broadcaster manipulating voters for you 24/7.
Robert Peffers at 1.00 AM
“the Westminster Establishment are becoming increasingly desperate”
Indeed and their little helpers. “Colin Alexander” in his frenzy obviously missed Clara’s effusive public praise of Nicola Sturgeon and the support she is getting from the Scottish Government.
geeo at 1227am,
I agree with you, and would also say,
The problem is NOT the trolls, it is the moronic fools who feel the need on here to prove how clever, clever they are, trying to dismantle the supposed ‘flawed logic’ of trolls. People who are or are not employed for trolling activity on forums, do not care that what they say is incorrect. They will quite literally argue black is indeed white. The whole intention is to get people distracted from the subject of the thread.
Haven’t you noticed how when their is exceptionally bad news for unionists, the thread suddenly gets filled with trolls? They know more people will be reading, so they want to disrupt and destroy the feeling of ‘success’ and unity within the indy movement. Yet, in such circumstances, without fail, the usual suspects on here willingly dive in, trying to ‘prove’ the trolls are wrong. It is utterly moronic.
That is why the advice world-wide on any forum on any subject is DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Why? because without responses (even those which ‘prove’ them wrong’), they cannot achieve their goal, which is to disrupt and distract.
Nobody has any need of any self appointed person or people on here to ‘prove the trolls are wrong’ or to ‘umask’ them and ‘expose’ them. Trolls do not care – that actually helps them.
This knowledge is internet 1.01. It is known the world over. Those on here, who supposedly are ‘on our side’, but who continually engage and endlessly argue with trolls are actually the real problem.
Ignore the trolls, and they fail. Engage with them, and they succeed. They do not care if you ‘prove they are wrong’. They do not care if you point them out as trolls. No matter if they are Paid or unpaid, part of the English army 77th brigade or not, they can ONLY succeed when people engage with them.
It isn’t f*****g rocket science. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.
Lesley Riddoch on BBC supporting Catalonia . Tom Harris labour is a Tory in red clothing. Gerry Hasson with his ‘ pretendy socialist leanings’ is a patsy —supports Harris and supports Riddoch – well almost. All about an illegal referendum as the Tories and red Tories pursue political arrests. Oh the mixed up world of socialist democracy.
Does Leonard agree?
HAPPY HAPPY EASTER FOLKS = ) xxx
Re this Russian poisoning,,,I am stinking to the old guidelines of:
Innocent until proven guilty.
@yesindyref2
“Regards Skripal I did post that it could be a plot between the UK, the US and Russia to increase tensions so they could spend more on defence and nobody would care. But some facts have come to light that have some bearing on this theory.”
War certainly is profitable for the few and a way of uniting the masses. Of course anyone who steps out of line at that point ends up in the Massey Ferguson category..
Robert Louis says: 1 April, 2018 at 8:09 am:
“I agree with you, and would also say,
The problem is NOT the trolls,”
Oh! Aye! Here we go, I’ve been expecting it and I expect it’ll also fly over many heads. Here comes the Mark Antony like speech:-
[EDITED BY REV. STU: No it fucking doesn’t. What part of my comment did you interpret to mean “please perpetuate this fucking argument some more”?]
The Mirror says ..
” April Fool’s Day stories: Can you tell the real news from the made up nonsense? “
Made me laugh!
No, because today is just like every other news day with plenty of made up nonsense.
Robert Louis @ 8.09
I’m kind total agreement with this point. For the last couple of weeks, after I found my new tRuthless party MPs Facebook page, I was making valid comments about his “day job” and what he was doing during the time.
I noticed there were a small group of indy favouring types making points and giving facts which were being continually being pooh poohed by a seemingly well organised group of ultra yoons, only a couple of whom live in the constituency.
The abuse, name calling and downright ignorance towards anyone making a sensible case for anything, eg debunking the famous GERS, is pathetic. People being called feeble minded, uneducated and even amoebas, for daring to challenge the views of some middle aged bigoted fuds.
I’ll never post on that page again as it is just feeding the trolls, and it is the same on here if people respond to the known deflectors, the more they get an argument the better they like it as it is purely disruption, as seen on the Luke4swindon Facebook page.
I note on the BBC news that. “An enquiry has been launched by MSPs to investigate police and fire reforms”.
Is this a direct result of the unionists MSP Cabal’s success in the repeal of, “The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act”? A success only possible by the three unionist parties acting in concert?
Are these unionist now setting out yet another expensive attack upon proven successful acts the SG have passed? Are they intent upon acting directly against the best interests of the people of Scotland to discredit the SNP/SG?
Has their disgraceful success inspired them to press on with what is undoubtedly a sign the Westminster unionist now acting as one unionist party working against the best interests of Scotland and the Scots?
@ Fireproofjim – The Russian talk show “Let Them Talk” with Litvinenko’s father Walter and his brother sitting on a sofa with the politician our government says killed Alexander Litvinenko, Lugovoy. Litvenenko Snr thinks someone called Goldfarb killed his son. Goldfarb lives in the USA.
Scroll along to 38:15. The auto-translate isn’t very good but you get the gist.
The whole programme is about the Skripal case and the British Government’s accusations.
link to youtube.com
THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO OUR DEMOCRACY.
This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
ECHO<ECHO.
Echo,echo
This is the BBC speaking truth unto nations.
Whan that Aprile we its shouries oot has drooned the drouth o March
April 1 1567
It’s not just us, when a Labour peer and former government minister is openly saying the BBC is a propaganda outfit, this view is becoming mainstream. Their increasing efforts mean that every day more and more people are seeing through them.
link to twitter.com
@valerie
Aamer Anwar & Clara Ponsati’s finger to the lips gesture was to us on the opposite side of the road. We were chanting Clara, Clara, Clara when she came out of the Sheriff Court but the police wouldn’t let us cross the road. Aamer wanted to read her statement hence the shush gestures but we were so far away we couldn’t hear it. Eventually both crossed the road to read the statement in front of the crowd.
The daffodils she was holding came from one of the protesters in the crowd.
I see according to the Herald anal – ysis (possibly the Sunday Herald, it’s online so I don’t know since I have given up buying the ex independence supporting version) that we are all harming the cause of independence.
Also we are pretty much fruitcakes for asking for some evidence regarding the Skirpal poisoning, the evidence is in the fact so many diplomats have been removed. After all governments have never before oversold intelligence information to the public.
If this was in the Sunday edition I would urge pro-indy people to no longer buy it, it stance is no longer positive.
TheWasp says:
1 April, 2018 at 10:13 am
‘I’ll never post on that page again as it is just feeding the trolls’
I think the correct approach on pages like that is just to drop in briefly, to be totally reasonable, just post facts dont get drawn into arguments however tempting it is, and dont take it personally.
I tend to do that, just drop in and blow some obvious liar out of the water and go away again.
The point is that its a public forum and you are talking not to the fuds themselves, but anyone else who might be reading, and its important that we are seen to be still around, reasonable and truthful, and it shows them up for the nutters they are.
Here though, I think the best thing to do is ignore them or at least never explicitly reply.
I have no sympathy for the Red Tories @Glamaig saysat 10:37 am
“Labour peer and former government minister is openly saying the BBC is a propaganda outfit”
link to twitter.com
These are the same Red Tories who never had a problem about the BBC being a propaganda outfit during IndyRef, the last GE or the Council Elections in Scotland.
These are the same Red Tories who currently don’t have a problem about the BBC being a propaganda outfit in Scotland with it’s daily “Scotland Shite ‘cos EssEnnPeeBaaad” in defence of their “Pressscious Union”.
No Sunday Herald today. I was wavering but its front page confirmed my previous resolution. It does not support independence. Glanced through some other papers. Sunday Mail OK (not the Mail on Sunday FFS). Sunday Sun really scraping the bottom of the barrel with a lead editorial accusing the Scottish Government of wasting public funds because it spent some money pointing out that some old folk weren’t claiming their full benefits and pointing them in the right direction to do so. Appalling.
The US spends half the revenues raised in taxes on Defence. (320 million pop) China spends 1/4 of that (1.2Billion pop) Russia and the US had to stop the (nuclear) arms race in the 70/80’s because it was bankrupting both countries.Arms (nuclear) agreements.
In the US/UK people can’t get hospital care and education. People are sanctioned and starved. The illegal wars have killed and maimed millions. They have caused the worse migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. They are spending £Billions of money on redundant weaponry. These then fall into suspect hands. It is beyond disgrace. £Trns in debt.
The US/UK are the most indebted and unequal countries in the world. With too many unhappy, struggling people Totally unnecessary. Mismanaged economically forever.
Since the 1980’s Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin have brought self determination, peace, democracy and prosperity to millions of people. Even though for economic reasons.
Since the 1990’s the Russian Confederation USSR pop has fallen half To 150Million people. A result of perestroika and glasnost introduced by Gorbachev. Putin has given millions of people self determination, democracy and economic freedom. (150 million?) to to other economic satellites. There are still negotiation for trade and co operstion.. Before the 1990’s the Russian Confederation USSR (collapse) the population was 300(million) on par with the US. US Now 320Million. Pop. Still more to be done.
NATO has nuclear weapons right on the Rusian border threatening them. Illegally. The US/UK threatens other countries with nuclear attack without retaliation. Often for economic reason. Totally illegal under International Laws. They threaten Russia and China even on their borders. Often for economic reasons. Totally deplorable. When all Russia and China want to do it to legitimately protect their borders, Both have been invaded too many times by hostile neighbours included UK/US directly and indirectly. Causing death and hardship. Russia saved the West in the 11WW. 26Million Russians died. The greatest sacrifice. The Russian economy was devastated US 1/2million, UK 1/2million. France 1/2Million. The West should be helping Rusdia. Not imposing illegal sanctions.
Putin has halved poverty in Russia. (50%) Given self determination, freedom to millions of people. Relinquished territory like no other leader ever. Improved Russia economically. No wonder he is so popular in Russia. With rating other leaders can only look on with envy. Still much to be done.
China has performed an economy miracle with growth never seen before even without democracy. How better could it have done with democracy. China calls Scotland the ‘land of invention’. Calls Britain the ‘island without Empire and influence’. Sums it up quite well.
The CIA/FBI and M15/6 are totally out of control surveilling people and sanctioning them illegally throughout the world. A colossal machine of aggression and inadequacy. Totally out of control and denying people’s rights and freedom. A modern day mess and impossible to Police. Too expensive and a total waste of time money and ethics.
It does not work in any case. It took ten years to find Bin Laden. That was no t because of surveillance but because he was betrayed. It shows how inadequate the surveillance works out. Spending money on social matters has a much better outcome and gives people more freedom.
Dick the spokesperson of the survelliance regime was involved in killing innocent persons, A total illegal botched operation. She should be in prison. Not given an OBE and promoted. What kind of message does that put out about violence towards others, Now trying to claim the internet causes violence. There was more violence and more violent crimes before the internet. Violent crime has fallen with the right policing methods etc, The internet has seen violent crime decreasing. Possible because more people are on a computer in the visual world or communicating with others. A cause for good not bad in spite of the poor reporting and attacks by government.
Violent crime has not decrease at government level. The secrets,lies and manipulation. The Gov criminality kept secret under the Official Secrets Act to manipulate and fool the people. Dunblane, Lockerbie and Iraq kept secret for 100 years.
The UK/US are the biggest warmongers on the planet. In order that government representatives and their associates can embezzle and illegally increase their personal wealth. The unionist Party crooks. Why many of them join these parties and there is so few of them. Racists,bigots and misogynists. Most of them held with derision and despised. No wonder. Some of them are out to cause WW111. Imbeciles and liars. The rocky horror show. Johnston and Williamson as Foreign and Defence Secretary. Could it be any worse. Offending everyone in sight. Two intellectual pygmies. Impossible and beyond belief to describe. Brexit is an absolute disaster. It will ruin the world economy. More people will died. Billionaires buying up democracy. It is a total scandal.
Vote SNP/SNP and Independence to end this farce of an unequal union. Vote for prosperity, happiness and equality.
Salmond and Putin are two of the greatest leaders and Statesmen in the world. Recognised throughout the world. Scotland has many friends and allies throughout the world. A 40million diaspora. Putin supported Scottish determination and called out Cameron’s manipulation and lies. Along with other leaders. Scottish invention shaped the modern world. It has a lot of friends out there. The misreporting of the non Dom tax evading MSM. It is not typical of the world Press. Without a balance Press there is no democracy, Thatcher saw to that and denied it. She gave Murdoch illegal control of the Press in the UK. The right wing manipulation. Thatcher broke the parliamentary code of conduct. The EU matters finally lead to her demise The Tory party even worse manipulation. Deja Vu.
I stopped getting the Sunday Herald some time ago, it is just another unionist paper now with a thin mask of support for Ind.
If this was in the Sunday edition I would urge pro-indy people to no longer buy it, it stance is no longer positive.
It really is a staggering Herald flip from 2014. God knows what goes on between the average UK hack’s ears these days.
How can you can be pro fundamental political change for Scotland 2014, then turn round and crap all over it 2018?
It can’t be for sales and ad revenue, unless UKOK pro tory shitrag sales stats are also faked.
jfngw and dmh
If we only buy paper(s) we support how do we pick up on the lies being fed to the unsuspecting?
Reading the Scottish Sun!!! That would take a few seconds.
The number of people who dont buy online or hard copy of the National include SNP councillors, branches and some supporters. For what its worth I will and still buy the Sunday Herald. I wont buy the Sunday Mail or the Scottish Sun, Sunday Post.
jfgnhxyz or something, advocating not to buy the Sunday Herald helps who? Murdoch
My choice.
On the Salisbury poisoning, the thing that gives me pause for thought is that the victims are still alive. I have no doubt that the Russians have killed people that have displeased them, like Litvinenko, opposition leaders and journalists in Russia. However, it seems to me that when the Russian State moves they don’t miss. This attempt seems to be a bit half cocked. If it was the Russians then someone is getting their arse kicked right now for making a complete hash of it. The alternative is that it suits someone else for the West and Russia to be at loggerheads. To use banned substances on either’s territory could only result in a serious breakdown in relations. If the Russians did do it and didn’t see this coming then they are not as intelligent as we give them credit for.
The British Government and many other countries seem certain it was Russia. It may be that the UK government has shared details we are not privy to. Until we also know more innocent until proven guilty has to apply.
Trolls
In order to bait people into engaging with them Trolls will pick a line or a sentence from a posters previous post and quote it out of context to substantiate his/her current nonsense thus annoying that original poster and the bait is set waiting for the bite
And the same fish keep getting caught
ignore
verb
refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally.
synonyms: disregard, take no notice of, pay no attention to, pay no heed to, pass over, shut one’s eyes to, be oblivious to, turn a blind eye to, turn a deaf ear to, brush aside, shrug off, push aside, never mind.
Sounds like good advice.
Robert Peffers @ 10.19 am
Re ‘Inquiry into Police Scotland and SFRS five years on.’ Spotted that on STV as well and wondered too.
Thing is, it actualy sounds like a sensible and standard health check by Hollyrood’s Justice Committee. Is the new system working? And the main players seem up for the scrutiny to see where improvements can be made.
BECAUSE THE SCOTTISH POLICE AND THE SCOTTISH FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICE CARE ABOUT THE SERVICE THEY PROVIDE.
But as per usual, sadly, SLAB can be counted on to run Scotland’s vital services down in the name of SLAB’s party politics.
SLAB’s Daniel Johnson sticks the knife in with ‘ committee must assess how this turmoil has effected policing and public safety’…
While national statistics show that crime in Scotland has fallen by about a third and 58% of respondents said the police were doing a good or excellent job. (Quoted from STV web news)
Turmoil? What teacher taught this daft boy to use words in this way?
Glaikit creature.
Watch this space I guess.
ScottieDog says:
1 April, 2018 at 8:53 am
@yesindyref2
“Regards Skripal I did post that it could be a plot between the UK, the US and Russia to increase tensions so they could spend more on defence and nobody would care. But some facts have come to light that have some bearing on this theory.”
War certainly is profitable for the few and a way of uniting the masses. Of course anyone who steps out of line at that point ends up in the Massey Ferguson category…
The Skripal story has reeked of “something” since the very beginning, and more and more, it’s the same stink as Tony Blair and his dodgy dossier about WMD’s in Iraq.
Thing is, for the UK to jump in so quick with both hobnail boots on to lay the blame squarely on not just Russia but Putin himself, rather implies you really do know for certain it was Putin, or else, to avoid grossly embarrassing revelations that it actually wasn’t Putin but somebody else, it occurs to me you would have to be pretty sure who actually did do it. That’s pretty unsettling when you think about it.
I cannot describe in words the combination of anger and distrust I felt towards Boris Johnson with his warmongering bullshit trying to ratchet up the stakes with Russia. This was the same blithering imbecile who drove through the catastrophe of Brexit on a pack of lies too, then ran away leaving other to address the chaos he’d created. I mean, who the fk actually listens to a cretin like that???
I don’t have the psychiatric knowledge or vocabulary to deconstruct what goes on in Boris Johnson’s head, but he is a dangerous mix of narcissist and sociopath, but there is a childlike incapacity to know when to stop. Whether it’s rugby tackling a child, jogging dressed like a weirdo, or looking a total fking idiot on a zip line, he is the epitome of the spoilt self centred brat who just doesn’t have any boundaries or concept of self restraint.
I would be relieved to believe whatever the correct diagnosis would be, it must surely be a thankfully rare condition. But then I look at Ruth Davidson; the same childlike judgement, articulate but desperately fickle and capricious, the same unapologetic narcissist, a kindred lunatic in all respects, and bang goes that theory that the condition is rare.
With UK politics now through the looking glass, in Johnson and Davidson, we have Tweedledum and Tweedledee..
“Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.”
Sorry O/T and it might cause a bit of a stir.
I was sorry to hear of the death of a solider in Syria and my thoughts go out to the family.
So here goes.
The UK already has a modest force of 500 infantry in Iraq to help train the Iraqi army. The Ministry of Defence says British troops have trained more than 31,000 Iraqi and Kurdish fighters.
The extra 20 trainers have been sent specifically to train Syrian groups.
If I remember right when asked the MOD said these people would not be in any combat zone so why was the solider out on patrol at night time,did the MOD lie and was the men told the truth.
@Hemlock100
I read widely but don’t purchase any papers or see any online adverts, a bit of computer knowledge goes long way.
Ha ha ha ha!
Hats off to the EU.
They have just trolled the UK by proclaiming that EU passports are changing colour to blue.
That’s possibly the funniest April Fool prank I’ve seen in a long time. Take a bow Europe, I genuinely laughed out loud.
Breeks @ 12.30 pm
All EU passports to be dark blue !! 🙂
The perfect April Fool’s joke!
Or… maybe not a joke… =)
whispering
cactus, where are you?
3 posts to go.
this should be yours xxx
LOVE SCOTLAND = )
This is really toe curling stuff. Watch it through your fingers with your hands over your face.
Theresa Mays Easter message…pass me the sick bag.
link to twitter.com
Oh no there’s an even worse video posted by May later. Running out of sick bags…panic!
I want to see us coming together, the four nations across the UK. We have a very strong union that is in our interests and it’s in our interests to come together and really sieze these oppertunities for the future.
link to twitter.com
jfngw says:
1 April, 2018 at 12:22 pm
@Hemlock100
I read widely but don’t purchase any papers or see any online adverts, a bit of computer knowledge goes long way.
interesting- yet you ask folk to stop reading the Sunday Herald.
You show a bit of computer knowledge isn’t enough. Its Hamish by the way jfngw.
Theresa Mays Easter message…pass me the sick bag
Holy fuck. If only Jesus H Christ would just come back today.
Onwards Christian toryboys, marching off to war… who with, anyone at all, dole bums, Putin, Brussels, vile seps, hot places with lots of oil, not too far away from teamGB but far enough away to make sure they can’t touch our tory Great Britain.
Amen.
This post disappeared earlier. I wonder why?
Mr Peffers,,
Who are these “Trolls” who are threatening your very existence?
Can I say, you do more to keep us “Off Topic” than any “Troll” that has posted on here.
You seem to go out of your way to deliberately start a fight in an empty room.
If someone is targeting you then the Rev has told you many times that he has procedures in place to deal with abusive posters.
Can I recommend that you start using them, instead of cluttering up every topic with your endless grievances.
This is a personal opinion of mine and also, that no animals were harmed in the making of this post.
Oh Dear! It seems that May’s sneaking plan to start Cold War 2 has been outflanked by Trump and Putin:
Desperation of British Imperial Elites Forces Them To Make a Big Blunder! [Schiller Institute]
“As the façade covering for the centuries-long methods employed by British imperial elites, to maintain their control, is being ripped to shreds, their desperation has become highly visible, as they are now acting in the open, in their own name! This is a big blunder, as even those in denial about the existence of the British empire can see that London is now openly leading a push for war. In the last days, the irrational rants against Russia from Theresa May and Boris Johnson have become increasingly shrill, demonstrating clearly their fear that they are losing control.” (cont..)
Back to Skripal, one of the first experts to give forth on the subject was a chemist (maybe in the Grun), who said it had to be freshly made as it lost I think it was 5% every year in its effectiveness. There was a report that when the USSR broke up soon after that it lost control of some of its chemical warfare stocks, there was lawlessness and apparently Putin had to carry around a shotgun to protect himself.
Say 1993, that’s 25 years ago, so you’d think chemical warfare agents would be completely null at 5% a year decay, wouldn’t you? Well no, 0.95 ** 25 is 0.28, so Novichok would still be 28% effective this year.
It didn’t work very well on the three victims, so it seems reasonable to me to say there’s a chance it’s old stock used which got mislaid, maybe sold on on the black market.
For some odd reason you won’t see any “investigative reporter” coming up with this as a possibility.
The consolidation of leadership in Russia and China around Presidents Putin and Xi stands in stark contrast to the collapse of ruling parties in the Trans-Atlantic region, beginning with Brexit. The continuing indications that President Trump favors cooperation with Russia and China, rather than geopolitical confrontation, is heightening the hysteria in London. While a war remains a real possibility, due to British provocations, it is also highly conceivable that what we are hearing are the dying gasps of a collapsing empire.”
(cont..)
“The consolidation of leadership in Russia and China around Presidents Putin and Xi stands in stark contrast to the collapse of ruling parties in the Trans-Atlantic region, beginning with Brexit. The continuing indications that President Trump favors cooperation with Russia and China, rather than geopolitical confrontation, is heightening the hysteria in London. While a war remains a real possibility, due to British provocations, it is also highly conceivable that what we are hearing are the dying gasps of a collapsing empire.”
If it was made in the year the USSR broke up officially – 1991 – 27 years ago – it would still be 25% effective.
Let’s hope there is some truth behind this story in the Sunday herald:
Orange Order in Scotland is on the brink of collapse, according to leading historian Tom Devine.
THE “anti-Catholic” Orange Order is in terminal decline and can only survive if it abandons sectarianism, according to historian Tom Devine.
He said members of the Protestant fraternity are ageing and their marches in July commemorating the defeat of Catholic King James II by Dutch Protestant William of Orange in 1690 are “widely condemned by mainstream Scottish opinion”.
The Sunday Herald revealed last year that the first prize in a fancy dress competition organised by Airdrie-based Whinhall True Blues Flute Band and held in an Orange Hall went to a man and woman dressed as Adolf Hitler and wife Eva Braun, and two children dressed in rags branded with a yellow star similar to the one Jewish people were forced to wear by the Nazis.
Other pictures of the 2013 competition, and an earlier contest in 2010, show men dressed as Catholic clergy, and one who appears to be dressed as the Pope has a noose around his neck to simulate a lynching.
The Order has also come under fire after footage emerged of crowd at an Orange Walk in Glasgow singing the banned Famine Song, accompanied by a flute band. In the video shot last July, a group repeatedly sing: “The famine is over, why don’t you go home?”, lyrics which refer to Irish immigrants. Eight people were arrested at the same event for a range of offences.
In a bid to rebrand, the Orange Order is due to hold a “media and public relations seminar in the spring” which is expected to take the form of a “how others see us” forum led by a professional PR consultant, according to an article in the Orange Torch, the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland’s newsletter.
Devine, who is a practicing Catholic, said: “The best way forward for them is to remove any traces of anti-social behaviour, which they have been trying to do, and to remove any traces of anti-Catholicism, because of course the Orange Order was founded in the 1790s in the north of Ireland out of fear of Catholicism.”
He said the Protestant organisation is currently in a “parlous condition” and added: “The numbers are absolutely clear – it is in decline. The mainstream Protestant churches don’t want anything to do with it and mainstream Scottish opinion, especially during the marching season, treats the organisation with hostility and contempt.”
The Sunday Herald contacted the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland but did not receive a response.
link to heraldscotland.com
Happy Easter to ALL Wingers =)
Heed the small quiet voice within and you won’t wrong =)
We ARE on our road to Scotland’s Independence =)
Thank you Rev Stu.
Peace and love to you all folks x
Headtracker
what do you believe in?
Why do you have to debase the name of Jesus at easter sunday by associating it with tories.
Can I recommend that you start using them, instead of cluttering up every topic with your endless grievances
If you dislike Rab’s comments Crackerjack, don’t read them. It cant be any simpler than that.
For example, Mr Peffer’s comments are always full of info and it provides lots of things that you can counter mental as anything yoon stuff, from the great beeb gimp network’s malicious anti Scottish democracy attack propaganda, getting worse and worse by the hour now, to some bloke at a party, explaining how Scotland no longer exists, style.
That can’t be why Mr Peffers in particular, is singled out by dudes like Rock and yourself, shurely.
Hope that helps Crackerjack:D
@Hamish100
I said stop buying, not reading things. I keep an eye on lots of stories, doesn’t mean I have to purchase these titles. Anyone that can read these blogs can do the same as me as they obviously have an internet connection, no need to finance them also.
I am a hypocrite in a sense as I still have a TV licence but don’t want to finance BBC News. Can’t find an acceptable way around this that won’t cause ructions in the family.
heedtracker
Why the abusive and insulting post to me?
I posted advise to a Mr Peffers,,why did you intervene?
Talk about going round in circles on here.
You talk to one person and a complete starnger answers on his behalf.
Has Mr Peffers lost his tongue?
Hamish100 says:
1 April, 2018 at 1:12 pm
Headtracker
what do you believe in?
Why do you have to debase the name of Jesus at easter sunday by associating it with tories.
I’m faithless heathen Hamish. But I wish Jesus would come back to earth today.
It would interesting seeing what he’d say to likes of Brenda, so your majesty, you’re one of the richest in my world today, yet lots of your subjects exist on foodbanks, or what used to be called soup kitchens.
How did that come about then?
@luigi
Interesting post. It does make me worry about what the establishment will do next and who is deemed collateral damage
A wounded animal is extremely dangerous.
Crackerjack says:
1 April, 2018 at 1:24 pm
heedtracker
Why the abusive and insulting post to me?
I posted advise to a Mr Peffers,,why did you intervene?
I’m not abusing or insulting you CJ.
I am posting advice to you, too.
And as Mr Peffers has taught me so much about Scotland, why ever not explainerise to you why you should just scroll on by, if you do not like his comments?
And yes CJ, its advice, not advise.
I cancelled my order for the Sunday Herald last year, but my partner picked up a copy today, to help while away Easter Sunday.
She read out the April Fool story regarding ‘Anthrax Island’. Mind you, these days, can we be certain it is actually a joke?
Having read the whole edition, I told her most of the paper is one big joke. Paul Hutcheon obviously writing his contribution while wearing a big red nose, which by rights should match his face.
So, to buy another Sunday Herald, or relocate to Gruinard Island?
There was nothing abusive or insulting in his post to you Crackerjack. This is an open forum, anyone can reply to anyone’s posts. Stop looking for a an argy bargy with Mr Peffers…you’ve stated your opinion about Mr Peffers posts…Heed stated his opinion about yours. You want it both ways, it’s okay for you to opine about another commenter but others have not to opine about you?
O/T Continuing the Delayed discharges story from hospitals in Scotland that I mentioned last night.
The ISD Scotland site seems to be back in operation this morning so here are the most recent data
Delayed discharge data for BHS Scotland January 2018. Published 6 March 2018
Main Points
In January 2018, 38,700 days were spent in hospital by people whose discharge was delayed. This is a decrease of 12% compared with 44,222 days in January 2017.
The average number of beds occupied per day in January 2018 was 1,248. In December, the daily average was 1,305.
At the January 2018 census point, there were 1,332 people delayed. This is a decrease of 10% compared with 1,482 people delayed at the census point in January 2017.
Of those delayed at the January 2018 census point, 1,022 were delayed more than three days.
The most common reason for delays over three days was health and social care reasons (764), followed by complex needs (233), then patient and family-related reasons (25).
The figures for February will probably be published in the next week or so.
Worth noting that the figures for January were when the flu outbreak was at its height.
The trend continues downward.
So, to buy another Sunday Herald, or relocate to Gruinard Island?
Its probably the best British newspaper, The Graun.
But they have a rolling blackout on anything about Scotland at all, at The Guardian. So if you want to read millions of interesting things about England, the English, the rest of world, and ofcourse their S_____d region is mere whitespace, Nic Sturgeon is a scary monster and there is no longer a third party in Westminster today, The Graun is lovely.
Unless The Graun’s S_____d region really has disappeared off the face of the earth.
In which case, if you’re out there in S______d Master Severin, The Guardian S______D editor, please accept my sincere Easter apolo ogees.
And I want my money back you red tory chancer:D
Who let the dogs out?
I posted a bit of advice to a Mt Peffers and what happens?
This headtracker and K1 guy butt in on his behalf.
Their advice to me was to ignore Mr Peffers. Can i give similar advice to Mr headtracker and Mr K1 regarding anything I post.
As I told Mr Peffers, you lot would start a barny in an empty room.
Geez Oh !!!
The Rev is THE Administrator not a few hyper sensitive snowflakes.
Apparently the UK government are to announce an increase in spending for the NHS (in England of course). They need to I’d guess because of the terrible mess it is currently in due to Tory mismanagement.
The kicker though is that they are going to announce it as “the Brexit Dividend” Wowser eh!
With just under a year to go when Britain leaves the EU a new Brexit lie has emerged. Actually, it’s a variant on an old theme: the infamous “£350 million a week for the National Health Service (NHS) if we vote Leave” has become a promise.
It is, of course, perfectly possible for any government to commit – and to deliver – any amount of extra funding for health care.
The lie is that more cash for the NHS will come from a ‘Brexit dividend’. It’s a political sleight of hand that is just one more disgrace to add to the litany of lies that continues to accompany the Brexit process.
Good story that also roundly condemns the press, thing is it’s a story written in Ireland and not England.
Orwell couldn’t have made it up. Just one more whopping great lie. Should we be surprised that people fall for it?
Should we be astonished that the media – both mainstream and social – is utterly unable to call out politicians who continue to lie?
link to archive.li
headtracker
Which part of england to you come from?
Lets have cross border relations and all that.
And it is the english establishment I have a problem with, not english citizens like yourself.
I thought I would clear that up before you accuse me of being racist.
Crackerjack says:
1 April, 2018 at 2:00 pm
headtracker
Which part of england to you come from?
Aberdeen, CJ.
I think one of the most important things WoS btl commenters like Rab Peffers do, is clearly and concisely lay out the what and why of Scottish nation state hood actually is, both prior to and then actually within this bizzaro world of UK, well lets say attempted domination of Scotland.
And the more comments like this circulate around online, the more confident Scots YES votes get with their own constitutional knowledge.
But that can’t be why our Rab gets selected by Rock and chums, can it;-)
Again, hope that helps CJ:D
Ken,
I hear Gruinard Island is very nice at this time of year!
Luigi, that is very interesting and I hope that our continental friends are thinking on it very deeply indeed.
Regarding the herald ,once upon a day I had high hopes of young Mr Hutcheon – that was several years ago . Now I am just deeply saddened by the bunkum and reverse gear he has employed. Presumably he is merely earning a crust and is no longer concerned about his self respect.
Happy Easter to all Wingers and all those who pop in for a visit – remarkably TV today seems keen on the WW2 , castles and Kings and Queens and the odd Easter Service – whatever happened to the Greatest Story Ever Told and John Wayne’s killer line,
‘He truly was the Son of Gawd’
headtracker
Why would any Scot read the “Graun” if it has nothing about Scotland in it?
That is why I assumed you were english.
And who is “Rock”?
and what has that got to do with me?
Today is that one day of the year where the media eventually admits it has released some fake stories.
The other 364 days, all their fake stories are left to stand as genuine.
And who is “Rock”?
Rock is a WoS btl commentatoreriser who, like you CJ, wants my honourable friend Rab Peffers to stop posting anything btl WoS, oh he wants FM Sturgeon out and we have to all stop buying the National, by order of Rock, ad infinitum, whatever that means.
Again, hope that helps CJ.
oh and the Sunday Herald and if your are in the snp stop it… they are unionists wrapped in the saltire.
buy Tunnocks tea cakes, book your hols with Barrhead travel — only then you can say you are pro indy …….britnat
Orange-ism is dying out..in the UK.
Racism is dying out.. around the world.
Unionism is dying out..in Scotland.
Conservatism has reached out to all those out-moded dying reasonings, for one big push against the freedoms won and sacrifices made during the 20th century.
The human race will acquire a collective long term memory, or history will repeat itself.
headtracker
You never answered my question.
If this “Graun” has nothing about Scotland in it, then why are you so interested in it?
Sounds a bit stupid to buy a paper that only tells you what is happening in england. Unless you are english,,like yourself.
And again what has this Rock got to do with me.?
You say he wants Nicola Sturgeon “out”.
What the hell has that got to do with me?
I am one of Nicola Sturgeons biggest fans. I support her 100%.
Again you post slanderous and false accusations.
Are you going to Russia to support your nation playing in the world cup. C’Mon engurland !!!
Read the Guardian for 10 years, until about 15 years ago. Mostly crosswords, arts, opinions, then the New Labourites came. Shame.
At the moment we only have one voice in the Scottish MSM and that is The National.
So keep on buying the National and retweet the National’s twitter account as much as possible.
link to twitter.com
Jings, this is getting a bit long now kinterindy2rockflowerportmenRNcrackerjack
Are you going to Russia to support your nation playing in the world cup. C’Mon engurland !!!
Maybe CJ, maybe. Should be an incredible sporting holiday for all sports fans and a wonderful opportunity to see Russia.
I’m a Scot that does tend to go the anyone but England route though. Its all down to the English sports commentators mostly, insufferable jingos and boobs, one and all. And christ knows what the appeal of watching cricket is.
Its all just part of the disfunction and disconnect within this union with England.
When its all over, this union, I probably will support the English teams, maybe.
Also, your fellow Mr Peffers hater Rock swipes on just after teatime Scottish time, so stick around, he’s very very samey though.
Hope that’s not all too slanderous and false accusation for you CJ.
yesindyref2
Another crazy mis-informed attack dog is let off it’s lead.
Why is my name on your wee list???
Is somebody else want a shot at slandering me???
Britnat bias:
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
It’ll be basilbrush bluepeter and mollymuff next.
@caerc 2.07.
Yes! Never been further than Ullapool, but love that part of the country.
I was tapping into the spirit of the article.
Keep those pesky Ruskkies out, how dare they take the mickey out of our “skirts”, all the while intent on polluting our Scotland with their political propaganda, toxic material and WMD’s! 😉
Thought it worth lightening the mood here. This is funny 🙂
link to youtube.com
headtracker
yesindyref2
K1
The three of you have deliberately went out of your way to personally attack and slander me for no reason.
Why did you three get involved in something that had absolutely nothing to do with you.
This all started when I advised Mr Peffers to follow the Revs rules.
headtracker,,,if you don’t like Scotland then head back to your english homeland with the english Graun stuck under your english arm.
On the trolls, Stus’s advice is easy to follow because the posts are repetitive and never actually say much of anything. A great many of us have met irl at the many Wings bashes and various indy events. Anyone ever met any of these trolls?
There is a step for a hint.
headtracker,,,if you don’t like Scotland then head back to your english homeland with the english Graun stuck under your english arm.
Yes Sir. Sorry Sir.
It makes me wonder when I see people on hear being called trolls by people who won’t even use their own names on their posts at least some of the so called trolls use their full names so what have you people who do not got to hide ???
THE NATIONAL:
What Scotland can learn from Alan Cumming’s attitude to life:
NEED a break from bashing your head against the advancing wall of Brexitannia? You could do worse than celebrate the recent successes and glittering career of Alan Cumming. And in so doing, surprisingly, find some extra energy for the long haul.
Firstly, Cumming is currently the star of America’s No 1 rated entertainment show. In Instinct, he plays a criminal psychology professor called Dylan Reinhart – the first openly gay lead character in US TV drama.
From the clips available, Cumming is his usual poised and attentive self, dressed in what could only be described as college-lecturer burlesque, and evidently having a ball with Whoopi Goldberg as his mercenary literary agent.
But in the promo around Instinct, Cumming does what he’s done for a while: speak forthrightly in his still-discernibly-Aberfeldy accent, while fielding questions about how distracting it is to hear him act as an American. “Distracting for you?! Welcome to my world”, Cumming tweeted a few days ago.
In any case, Cumming’s world – on social media at least – is a tonic. Not least because the exuberance that many of us remember from his earliest days in Scottish TV and theatre is still untrammelled.
There’s plenty of puppy pictures, gushing on US morning telly, random cabaret performances and men making art with unexpected parts of their body.
But there’s also endorsements of Democrat candidates, anti-gun protesters and anti-Trump petitions. And you wonder what his American fans might make of his detailed interventions on “keeping Westminster’s hands off Scottish Powers”, the latest funding stramash at Creative Scotland, or Amnesty Scotland’s reuniting of refugee families. Not to mention his “listening to Radio Scotland talking about scat. No words.”
There is a basic pleasure to be had from watching fellow Scots get away with being (mostly) themselves in a US showbiz context.
Connery and Connolly are the obvious precedents, but there’s a current roll-call. Kevin McKidd in Gray’s Anatomy, Karen Gillan as Nebula in the Avengers, Ewan McGregor in Fargo, Rory McCann in Game of Thrones (and Gerard Butler in whatever’s available).
It’s still weird to go back online and sample Craig Ferguson’s decade as the presenter of CBS’s The Late Show. All the way through he maintains essentially the same persona as his 80s’ Glasgow stand-up routine.
So yes, you may be frustratedly railing at the broken progress towards a Scotland fully in the world. But there’s no doubt that the Jockerati are out there, maintaining Scottish soft power and attractiveness, TV-couch by TV-couch.
There’s another resource that Alan Cumming’s surging spectacle brings to a weary Scottish scene. And that is a need for lightness of being, and a will to happiness. Especially in the most leaden and depressive of circumstances.
In Instinct, Cumming’s character has written a best-selling treatise on “abnormal personality disorders”. The plot of the series is about a serial killer who is consciously exploiting the insights of his research.
But it won’t have escaped the cultural historians how typical all this is – casting a Scot to play someone who pokes around in the cellars of human behaviour.
Robbie Coltrane as Cracker immediately comes to mind, but you can connect it to even deeper sources like James Hogg’s Confessions of a Justified Sinner, RL Stevenson’s Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, or our current magus of deviance, Irvine Welsh. Never mind the blood-soaked gutters of Tartan Noir and Scottish crime fiction.
Cue those who bemoan our endemic Scottish miserabilism. How will we ever raise the optimism required for any collective advance in this country if we keep looking into the abyss, and take entertainment from the abyss waving back at us?
The public intellectual Gerry Hassan has argued recently on the need for a new and radical “gentleness” in Scottish life. “The presence of gentleness says something about what sits deep within the person, and its absence shows a sense of ill-ease and not being fully present,” writes Hassan.
“Gentleness has a rootedness in self, but also a willingness to let go, reach out, and lose oneself in interaction with others. Thus, gentleness is one of the key facets in a genuine, lasting sense of generosity and hence, interconnectedness, solidarity and redistribution. Key qualities which have been undermined in recent decades.”
Letting go, reaching out, and losing yourself in others? As far as I have sampled it over the last few days, that pretty much sums up the Cumming life-stream.
Hassan goes on to make the point that Scotland has “a pronounced, problematic masculinity, which has restricted the parameters, voices and style of what we have been able to talk about”. Cumming, in a similar way to Connolly with his angry and abusive father, has made his own protests against this masculinist mindset.
While promoting his autobiography Not My Father’s Son, Cumming notes: “When I was a child, I had to learn adult skills, trying to deal with a father who was very unpredictable and volatile. So nowadays, in my work, I have embraced childhood or a child-like wonder. Acting should be just like playing … Yet I’m also aware that acting is what I had to learn to survive my father.”
So one way to deal with the abyss is to tweak its ruddy red nose. And yet like Connolly, the angry men of Scotland haven’t managed to dissolve Cumming’s sympathies with his home country.
In 2013 I spent an afternoon with Alan in Glasgow, as he was researching and presenting a TV travel show called Urban Secrets.
He was kindly, witty and thoughtful – and very fluently pro-independence. As we skipped and chattered around Byres Road, demolishing two double-nougats at the University Cafe on the way, I remember having a little private exultation.
At that time, Yes and No were throwing thunderbolts of ideology and policy between them, landing on enemy lines and scattering (metaphorical) bodies everywhere.
But, I wondered, could life in an independent Scotland instead be about this kind of playful curiosity and energy? About appreciating the assets we have, and enthusiastically wondering how things could be better?
It would be easy (and completely understandable) to scoff and snarl at such a luvvies’ take on the future of Scotland. As recently reported, this society still has a million people living in relative poverty – a statistic that also hasn’t shifted since the early years of Connolly in the 70s.
Shouting and bawling about models of control and sovereignty is the only way to deal with this, no?
Or do the professional angries shut down everyone else’s openness to change? As Hassan concludes, a Scottish public sphere defined by rage and attack – “in which people pause, have a sense of foreboding and self-censorship” – is damaging to all of us, “limiting our possibilities as people and a nation”.
It’s been a pleasure to digitally hang out with Alan Cumming for a few days, and enjoy his success. As his Twitter profile puts it, he’s “a Scottish elf trapped inside a middle-aged man’s body”. Otherwise known as a true gentleman. And to re-inspire a Scotland somewhat ground down by its struggles, we may well need a dancing phalanx of those.
Instinct will be on Sky in the UK before the end of the year.
link to thenational.scot
Today,Trolls are like Easter eggs and everybody wants to find one. Some are ,some are not. Can they create dissent ? Naw they cannae.
Indy first ,indy last. You may have a different view from mine on many things ,but as long as you supper indy then fine.
I find the Trolls quite amusing really. They twist and contort like the Michelin man when you ask them something verifiable. It becomes distraction and change the subject.
Great stuff from Grouse Beater (as always) – please share far and wide
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Crackerjack says:
1 April, 2018 at 3:31 pm
THE NATIONAL:
What Scotland can learn from Alan Cumming’s attitude to life:
Nice article. So why have you suddenly popped in btl laying down the Law GJ, with absolutely none of what our Alan possesses too?
@Bob Mack
They’re breeding like rabbits, look what the Easter Bunny brought us today!
RE: World Cup:
Now here is a very wicked thought:
“Where can I buy a Russia top?”
:):):)
@Luigi
Hope I haven’t wasted money on those three new scarves I’ve recently purchased.
First off, I don’t see why Crackerjack is getting such a hard time on arrival. Just because he doesn’t agree with RP about something or other. Big deal.
He also has a point about heedy and his obsession with the Graun. As an ex longtime faithful reader myself I do deeply mourn its hypocritical straying from the ways over Scottish autonomy, and thereby revealing an English Establishment streak that wasn’t visible before, but I don’t feel the need to go on and on about it as he evidently does. I’m not sure that continually rubbing the wound helps, so it’s an eminently fair point that CJ makes. But again no big deal either way.
Actually though, I am getting more and more worried that WoS is increasingly becoming a kind of ultra-leftoid echo chamber, in which other views are routinely decried as not conforming to the accepted party line.
All this guff over Russia, for example, which has nothing whatever to do with indy. Maybe Yulia Skripal will now be able to tell the medics that her and her dad had a meal of wild roots and the UKGov will consequently look extremely foolish, but the odds are agin it. In the meantime issuing torrents of Putin-love here on the basis of total uninformed fantasy is just plain daft. Far wiser to haud yer wheesht and see what transpires. All this mindless speculation makes WoS look like a bunch of untrustworthy nutjobs, not a convincing forum for those uncertain about indy who come here to take a peek.
I’m getting very worried that we are heading to make the exact same mistakes as we did the last time round. In our own little bubble and so convinced of our own certainties (whatever they are) that we totally fail to reach out and convince those who are outside it and do not share every detail of whatever political religion we, the faithful, happen to follow. We need to convert the 10% who very likely don’t share your (or my) certainties about anything. What’s so hard to understand about that?
Ordinary folk have real lives to get on with, as well they should, and just aren’t convinced by esoteric geo-political machinations. Au contraire, they are a complete turn-off. Even for those who already believe in independence. (I’m thinking for example of a little anecdote that Dr Jim once told of being buttonholed in a supermarket by one of these ultra-lefty indy bandwagon-climbers who stuck to him like a limpet about the upcoming revolution.)
The end result sadly is likely to be the same as the last time. The bubble-dwellers can’t realise why their pure vision could possibly have failed, and instead of waking up to a hard dose of reality, self-indulge by reverting back to a welter of pathetic conspiracy-theory excuses.
Take a hint from Paul Kavanagh. He promotes indy like a champion and doesn’t let his own sincere political leanings ever get in the way of convincing other folk about the correctness of his case. That’s who and what we should be emulating.
Focus on the ball. Independence. Everything else just creates useless confusion and serves some other cause.
@RJS
If you re-read the postings, its only purpose was to attack RP, very first post in, rather than making any interesting point, and then attacking anyone who criticised it. Exactly the same as Indy2, even down to the little list in the posting at 3.18pm, just a couple of names missing. Same as Rock does, just attack and attack. It’s the same person, or the same crib sheet. Even posted a whole article from The National to pretend street cred, same as Indy2 does. So it’s not a normal poster with different views, it has just one purpose, to isolate, attack, and disrupt.
In a nutshell. If Scotland does not vote for Independence Scotland is fininshed.
Scotland will continue to be depopulated until there is no one left.
Robert J. Sutherland Very well said , although i confess to throwing my tuppence worth in about the Ruskies ???
Just in case this hasn’t been posted earlier .
link to indyref2.scot
Just in case this hasn’t been posted earlier .
scot/bbc-scotland-to-become-more-scottish-as-viewing-numbers-plummet-north-of-border
Robert J. Sutherland 4.15pm
At last !!!
Someone actually posts some sense in this place.
The problem with some posters on Wings is that as soon as they see a new “Name” their Paranoia kicks in and they immediately label them as a Unionist Troll.
As far as I am concerned, nothing could be further from the truth. And while I agree with most of your post, I have to pull you up about the “other views” bit. I don’t have other views when it comes to Independence.
I am totally 100% committed to Scottish Independence. So It is not me who has a problem, there are certain people on here who have to accept different opinions from the many strangers who will use Wings.
And if their attitude continues then they are actually harming our chances of winning our freedom in IndyRef2.
But thanks for your post.
And prepare yourself for an attack from the usual suspects.
@ RJS
That’s one of the reasons why the concept of reframing is so important. Far too many people appear to think that all is required is to “show them the facts and they’ll realize we’re right”. It doesn’t work like that.
@ronnie anderson
Hahaha it is April 1st 🙂
yesindyref2
You are as paranoid as Mr Peffers
Same crazy wording. Let it go, you are miles off.
Are you Peffers? same attack, same hatred coming through.
As i have said, it is posters like you who are chasing punters away from Wings.
You don’t want any new blood. You want the same names talking to each other daily in your own wee bubble.
That will get the Indy Movement nowhere.
And why do you keep accusing new posters of being this “Rock” guy?
Why are you obsessed with Rock?
BBC don’t have to become more Scottish. They need to become more truthful. More impartial and non biased. Stop telling lies. Stop telling unresearched complete and utter nonsense. Don’t hold your breathe. Institutionalised biased Westminster control. £3.7Billion for so much nonsense. Especially News. People do not watch it anymore.
The latest from the Express ….
” Brexit shock claim: TUC boss says UK workers better off under EU regulations
TUC leader Francis O’Grady claimed British workers would be better protected under EU regulations, saying Brexit represents a ‘real threat’ to jobs and workers’ rights. “
Pissin ma’self over the idea that this might be a …. shock claim!
The Guardian is asking people for £. It has £Billion in reserves. Heedy does the needy. So other folk do not have to.
Thanks to Heedy.
Crackerjack says:
1 April, 2018 at 4:38 pm
Robert J. Sutherland 4.15pm
At last !!!
Someone actually posts some sense in this place.
The problem with some posters on Wings is that as soon as they see a new “Name” their Paranoia kicks in and they immediately label them as a Unionist Troll.
Not me CJ!
I would never call you a unionist troll.
Its just that you told Rab Peffers to get off btl WoS here and go off topic.
And I explained why I hope he doesn’t, ever!
Again, hope that helps.
You seen to be confused about a great deal though CJ.
Anyway, Thanks again for that lovely The National article about Alan Cummings too.
All we need now is for the duck o’ Embra to kick the bucket. Imagine the “precious union” “nation united in grief” bullshit. The bucket spills its cold sick.
Robert J. Sutherland
Can I offer you some free advice too? If you do not like a comment or who ever it is comments wise btl WoS, just scroll past them.
What’s the point of furrowing your brow, over what are just btl comments, not the actual blog up there, which is presumably why so many people read Wings over Scotland.
Keep this in mind.
Also, I have loads of obsessions.
The Greek workers were definately protected by the EU in the form of soup kitchens.
No one has to accept anyones opinion on anything, but exercising self control by not engaging with what one doesn’t like would hopefully lead to no angered discussions or insults from or to anyone
Don’t take the bait and you won’t get caught
headtracker:
Never let the truth get in the way of a good lie. You just posted an utter lie about me again. Here is my post to Mr Peffers after his constant moaning about people not agreeing with him:
Mr Peffers,,
Who are these “Trolls” who are threatening your very existence?
Can I say, you do more to keep us “Off Topic” than any “Troll” that has posted on here.
You seem to go out of your way to deliberately start a fight in an empty room.
If someone is targeting you then the Rev has told you many times that he has procedures in place to deal with abusive posters.
Can I recommend that you start using them, instead of cluttering up every topic with your endless grievances.
This is a personal opinion of mine and also, that no animals were harmed in the making of this post.
I sense more whining in you Crackerjack.
he said….she said…. it’s like an episode of coronation st in here.
the constant bickering is worse than tedious. it is boring
he said….she said…. it’s like a fuckin’ episode of coronation st in here.
the constant bickering is worse than tedious. it is boring
headtracker
Would you like to apologise to me in public for posting a blatant lie about me.
This is the lie you posted about me at 4.55pm today:
“Its just that you told Rab Peffers to get off btl WoS here and go off topic.”
My reply to you is at 2.07pm with my original post.
Adam Tomkins doesn’t reckon Jeanne Freeman and the Scottish government are clever enough to devise or understand a social security system and powers over these things should never have been devolved at all, kinda insulting to Scotland and Scots in general when you think the we in Scotland invented half of the modern world
On wonders if Adam Tomkins would like a list of what we backward Scots gave to the world
I would make one but before I start I already know I would run out of…F…..g Internet
I sense even MORE whining in you Crackerjack.
headtracker
That should have read 5.07pm.
My reply to you is at 5.07pm with my original post.
headtracker
I see you are not even man enough to apologise in public to me.
Sign of a coward in my book.
@heed
It’s the 1st April, start of the month. Why don’t we just totally ignore trolls, the old and the new ones we can spot straight away from the first post even, and let people be taken in by them, engage them in serious debate, only to find out for themselves that that’s not their intention? For a month. Until May at the earliest. Same for the other aware posters. I’m starting right now.
Let the gullible find it out the hard way.
I sense even more and MORE whining in you crackerjack.
And Rock, if that’s you, you’re really making at least one vile sep lol today:D
Ken 500 4.30pm. “Scotland will continue to be depopulated until there is no one left “. Oh there will be plenty left Ken, but they won’t be Scottish.
Just scrolling though some of the posts more Trolls on again , bit of advice for Valerie Singleton hitch up your Pinafore an run U won’t like K1 when he’s riled lol .
headtracker
Talk about deflections, You and that yesindy2 are experts at it.
Just say SORRY and admit you have made one almighty mistake.
Just admit that you posted a lie about me hoping no one would pick up om it.
What a horrible nasty trick.
You are no better than the shit we are fighting against at Westminster.
@ronnie anderson
The purpose of the obvious ones isn’t just to disrupt etc, it’s to distract, while others can slip in extreme aggressive posts, anti-English, sexist, homophobic, racist, sectarian, divisive or ones making comments about people’s appearance. It’s a two-layer thing at least, maybe more. And I’m off for my tea 🙂
@ ronnie anderson
good advice!
“The triumph of the human spirit” says May in her Easter message.
‘Triumph of the Will’ would be a lot closer to her worldview.
She’ll be casting around for someone to be her Riefenstahl soon.
as Jimminy Cricket says there’s more
link to facebook.com
Regards Skirpal, Occam’s Razor and Cui Bono are enough for me to know what the UK establishment did.
@Crackerjack says: 1 April, 2018 at 1:24 pm
“I posted advise to a Mr Peffers,,why did you intervene?”
That’s a big mistake you made there, Crackerjack. Wings is an open forum if you want to have private conversation then request the person you want to correspond with to take your private business to email, text or snail-mail.
BTW: Note I made my comment following an open and obvious swipe at me personally and have made no further effort to engage in infighting with anyone and I’ll be doing the same with your comment.
Talk about going round in circles on here.”
Hate to point it out but you are the one keeping the matter going. Perhaps heeding your own advice would be more to the point.
“You talk to one person and a complete starnger answers on his behalf.”
Yep! That’s what happens on an open forum. If you direct a textual comment to one person everyone receives the message and chooses to read and perhaps reply.
Has Mr Peffers lost his tongue?
See! That’s exactly what I mean – you are now addressing the entire forum and asking the forum if I’ve lost my longue. First of all I don’t type with my tongue and secondly the original complaint was about answering . “Trolls”, Until now I’ve kept quiet and the persons complaining that I am disrupting the forum are doing the disrupting.
I’ve now made my point and will return to reading and commenting when I have something to say. You will note that those complaining about trolls are the very ones keeping that topic going.
For those following the Skripal case.
S*n running a story today on the latest theory. Today’s theory – a Russian friend brought Mr Skripal a type of Russian porridge of buckwheat, and it contained the Novichok.
Eat your cereal, ffs.
I wish Rev would run a daily book on ‘where next’. This is getting cerious, our investigators are starting to look like arseholes. May has her finger on that button, and she is prepared to press it!!!!
Messy eaters those folk, when they said the highest concentration of nerve agent was on the front door handle.
You should be in off topic if you expect personal apologies.
Bikers were out and about on their Easter Egg run – at least it used to be eggs now they have to give money instead.
Well done lads and lassies! I miss clapping you through Crow Road since they’ve altered the route but I applaud in absentia.
Apparently , and miraculously the BBBC broadcast it – they usually miss it and or/ catch two bikes instead of the thousands present . I am sure for those interested there will be better coverage on youtube.
Messy eaters those folk, when they said the highest concentration of nerve agent was on the front door handle.”
Walter White made some serin in Breaking Bad, or is it sarin.
He just boiled some beans. Then he put it in a sachet of sugar, in a coffee shop and then it was mixed in by a baddy, in to her tea, and then she was soooo dead. He’s only a chemistry teacher and there are probably millions of Russian chemistry teachers, in Salisbury.
Art meets toryboy bollox.
Or, great US tv drama meets appalling toryboy war on Russia bullshit, on their relentlessly appalling beeb gimp network.
Tbf, even beeb r4 tory news gimps sound like they’ve got the great toryboy war on Russia battle fatigue.
Its poor oooold Jeremy Corbyn’s turn, Easter beeb gimp zone wise.
Returning to the topic, I wonder how Prof Posanti is feeling. This is what it boils down to, isn’t it? How we as individuals deal with injustice.
I can’t see how Catalonia can triumph against armed, unscrupulous opponents except by decades of suffering injustice and worse. And even then, like Gandhi, it needed his opponent to suffer catastrophic damage by other means. Who is going to make Spain give way?
In Scotland’s case, you’d think it is slightly easier given the constitutional position through the Treaty of Union BUT it hasn’t got us where we want to be yet. I don’t like to be downhearted but I wish I could see light at the end of the tunnel.
Meanwhile, congratulations Rev on all your work – you are a light in the darkness.
And thank you all donors [moral and financial] to this site and to Prof Posanti.
{ If someone is targeting you then the Rev has told you many times that he has procedures in place to deal with abusive posters. }
Now the question is how would Valerie Singleton know that Wur U lurkin , in the words of that good song Yer no making ah fool oota US Valerie .
Skip skip bite their erse that’ll shift them
Mr Peffers
Your trick is to Cherry Pick some quotes then fit them in to a twisted reply.
Why didn’t you pick out the lies that headtrackers posted about me.
As I have said, your little clique come across as bad as the trash we are up against from the english media on a daily basis.
Nasty hate filled vengeful posts are your trade marks.
And cut out the Cherry Picking of quotes to suit your twisted agenda.
As Donald Tusk told Treeza:
No Cherry Picking.
Valerie @ 18:17,
And exactly what do you think you’re achieving by retailing yet more totally unsubstantiated speculation on a completely irrelevant subject?
The bottom line: is any of this convincing anyone who stumbles in here about Scottish independence, or what?
This kind of heavily-politicised static is just as pernicious to this site in particular – and indy in general – as all the utterly boring “he said / she said” stuff we’ve had to endure this last day or two.
No-one in the real world gives a toss about any of this diversionary stuff at best, and are completely disenchanted by it at worst.
I really wish people would get a fecking grip instead of all this pointless self-indulgence (or worse).
I really wish people would get a fecking grip instead of all this pointless self-indulgence (or worse).
You really need your own blog, Robert J. Sutherland over Scotland. Then you can really kick ass btl:D
Thepnr says:
31 March, 2018 at 11:38 pm
“However Clara Ponsati will undoubtedly get a fair hearing in this country. That’s as much as we could ask in any trial.”
As fair as the one poor Megrahi got in a Scottish court?
Ponsanti will eventually get extradited after the maximum possible money has been sucked into the legal gutter.
Robert Peffers says:
1 April, 2018 at 12:01 am
“There are several different commenters here on Wings who have explained just how clever a move it was by Nicola Sturgeon to state she agreed with the Prime Minister.”
And there are equally as many commenters who believe that Nicola should have kept her mouth shut.
Dr Jim says:
12 March, 2018 at 8:56 pm (A historic breakthrough):
“The First Minister should have kept her mouth firmly shut on Russia and I don’t usually disagree with her on much but I believe her to be way wrong on this one”
If blind faith in religion is bad, blind faith in politicians is worse.
If blind faith in religion is bad, blind faith in politicians is worse.
Faith, Hope and Charity, Rock. Works for me.
Loved your Crackerjack zoomer this afternoon too.
HandandShrimp says:
1 April, 2018 at 11:47 am
“However, it seems to me that when the Russian State moves they don’t miss. This attempt seems to be a bit half cocked.”
The British made a nerve gas “of the type developed by Russia” and tested it on a British spy.
It seems it didn’t work.
This a bellwether site for independence.
The more trolling,frothing ,yooning discord there is the more independence is in the lead.
Things are looking good!
Breeks says:
1 April, 2018 at 12:14 pm
“The Skripal story has reeked of “something” since the very beginning, and more and more, it’s the same stink as Tony Blair and his dodgy dossier about WMD’s in Iraq.”
If our Nicola, a lawyer, was convinced by the “evidence” she was shown by Saint Theresa, surely it couldn’t have been a stinky dodgy dossier?
Saw this and thought of you Rock. JK Trolling’s Easter comedy, just for her beeb gimps, and you. Beeb gimpery isn’t explaining exactly what Trolling’s April Fool gag actually is. Is it that we’re supposed to think Trolling’s joined whoever it is Scottish Resistance is? Yoons hysterical with joy at it all so maybe they did,
link to bbc.co.uk
JK Rowling has turned the tables on a pro-independence group by wearing their T-shirt for an April Fools’ Day prank.
headtracker replying to the Rock.
“Loved your Crackerjack zoomer this afternoon too.”
That is the SECOND blatant lie you have posted about me today.
And I am still waiting on an apology for the first one,
You just can’t help yourself. You seem to think that there surely can’t be more than one person who disagrees with our wee clique’s nasty style of operating.
headtracker,,,,I am here,,the Rock is over there.
Got it???
Crackerjack, Rock, indy2. Zoom zoom chaps.
headtracker
Why do you feel you need to post a nasty reply to nearly everybody who posts a comment on Wings.?
Well it’s either you or Mr Peffers or that other nasty piece of work yesindy2.
Come up for some air headtracker. Let some of them pass you by.
@ RJS
self appointed moderator. Good job.
In what way is the Skripal case irrelevant? The biggest diplomatic incident reverberating around the world.
But, let’s just shut up, eh?
headtracker, you have us sussed don’t you?
Trying to insinuate that we are the one person:
“Crackerjack, Rock, indy2. Zoom zoom chaps.”
If you were a policeman headtracker, your name would be Inspector Clouseau and Mr Peffers would be the Pink Panther.
Sarah says:
1 April, 2018 at 6:38 pm
Returning to the topic, I wonder how Prof Posanti is feeling. This is what it boils down to, isn’t it? How we as individuals deal with injustice.
That’s the real question and, in my opinion, what I read as the point of the cartoon. Does she feel like a rebel for being true to her beliefs? I can’t imagine what it must be like for her to have the sword of Damocles hanging over her, looking at 30 years incarceration for daring to express her view that Catalonia should be a nation. It didn’t turn out too well for some of the other rebels featured, let’s hope that justice prevails and this time the good guys win.
@Dave McEwan Hill says:
1 April, 2018 at 11:14 am
No Sunday Herald today. I was wavering but its front page confirmed my previous resolution. It does not support independence.
=========================
Someone posted on here a while back that there’s been a change of editors at the SH and since then it pro-indy stance has seemed to waver. Probably keeping up just enough of a pretence from occasional articles to try not to lose YES voters who read it.
Crackerjack says:
1 April, 2018 at 7:59 pm
headtracker
Why do you feel you need to post a nasty reply to nearly everybody who posts a comment on Wings.?
Because I can.
But seriously Rock…
Its probably just because for the first probably ever, people like me can say whatever we like in a public place to people like you, Rock, btl WoS.
In the good old days, people like me were never heard, beeb gimps have the telly and radio for planet toryboy red and blue only, unionists rule the waves, so we are never heard on their gimpy networks.
It was pointless writing green ink letters to my local rag, neo fascist Voice Of The North Press and Journal. Those professional tory liars just would never tolerate what people like me think.
And you lot can’t even thug bully people like me off the old interweb can you. Not like the good old days when you could send in the boys.
We even all got booted of progressive liberal and very stinky olde The Graun btl. No explanation given, nor asked, tbf. Just booted out.
So here we are Rock, thanks very much WoS btl and the internet.
Although, as we can all see today, planet toryboy has plans for Free Speech on the internet too.
Funny that Rock?
Eddie Izzard (that giant among liars) who along with Jim Murphy the Daily Record and the BBC attempted to thwart the YES campaign by fitting up a fake violent situation during the 2014 referendum ( that failed ) but was still widely reported by Reporting Scotland and STV has gotten himself into a position of power in Corbyns Labour party as someone who’s going to oversee honesty and transparency and nice things
That’ll see the end of many people in the entertainment industry’s support for Labour
In terms of popularity in that business you won’t see no crowd around Mr Izzard
Personality wise…. unloved!
stu mac says:
1 April, 2018 at 8:19 pm
“Probably keeping up just enough of a pretence from occasional articles to try not to lose YES voters who read it.”
Tempting the more gullible independence supporters (about 8,000 after more than three years’ publication) to buy it is the game of The Sunday Herald’s younger sister, the fake “independence supporting” The National.
The Rev. Stuart Campbell is the number one genuine pro independence journalist, and one of a handful.
As far as I know from reading WOS, so far The National has published ONE article by him.
Why don’t The National’s numerous lobbysts here demand that it publishes at least a few articles by The Rev. Stuart Campbell every week or they will stop buying it?
I was not going to post here anymore, but pop in to see what the general discussion is but fuck me, how many posts does ‘heedtracker’ need to make? STFU mate you are ruining a once good forum.
Valerie @ 20:02,
Relevance to Scottish independence: zero
Factual content: zero
Reputability: zero
Likelihood of converting the 10% who need converting: negative
Conclusion: obvious
(It isn’t as if there aren’t loads of places all over the internet for this kind of baseless rampant speculation, but go ahead, have your special-pleading political verbal diahorrea on here anyway, why not, and to hell with the consequences for indy…? =sigh=)
I’m just pleading with people, please, please, think about the consequences of what you promote (or don’t) on here for the success of this crucial common enterprise, which necessarily has to be based on a high public reputation for cleaving to sound facts.
BBC and MSM really are getting a pounding just now due to their concerted attempts to oust Corbyn and restore the ‘natural balance of things’ (everything neoliberal).
Owen Jones is crying foul but whilst I have some sympathy, I also feel that there is an element of karma. They were happy to use the same platform to fool people into voting NO and attacking the YES movement at every opportunity.
I think/hope the situation can be beneficial to us. Perhaps, just perhaps, those who naturally gravitated to Corbyn might finally realise the corruption and the neoliberal cabal that controls the media.
I think it likely that Corbyn has peaked and is on his way out – aided of course by his own MPs.
The best hope I reckon for a grass roots progressives in England is for Scotland to secede. It would be a wake up call to the masses that there is another way to run an economy.
headtracker
You are co co pops.
Are you telling me I am the “Rock” or are you asking me???
I would say I am a staunch YES Campaigner. And I would say you are at best a hanger on. You are contaminated because of your love of the Graun,,, I am not.
My mind is pure, yours has been twisted by the Unionist slant in the Graun.
As I said, if you don’t like Scotland, then head south back to your homeland.
But don’t come on here and preach to a true believer like myself.
pipinghot says:
1 April, 2018 at 8:42 pm
I was not going to post here anymore, but pop in to see what the general discussion is but fuck me, how many posts does ‘heedtracker’ need to make? STFU mate you are ruining a once good forum.
Wow I have so much power.
Just scroll past, is also a feature btl WoS, mate.
Don’t flatter yourself. I browse Wings for a general discussion not ‘what heedtracker says’ but unfortunately a large percentage of posts seem to be by you. You are hogging the comments mate.
@ RJS – so if our imperial masters launch WWIII and Scotland is obliterated we can all die happy in the knowledge that we didn’t allow ourselves to be diverted from the true cause – which is what exactly?
I would rather we conducted our own foreign policy and got rid of nuclear weapons on the Clyde and had our own security and defence services loyal to our own government democratically elected by us.
I don’t know what kind of social circle you have but I find people are very interested in the Salisbury poisoning and who is responsible. My hairdresser was quite surprised to learn that Porton Down is only a few miles from the Skripal house. The idea that the British state produces chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear weapons was news to her. The fact that Sergei Skripal had been imprisoned in Russia for years then allowed to go free, with a pardon, to live in Salisbury under his own name and that his daughter travelled freely between Russia and the UK was also news.
What possible motive would Putin have for ostentatiously killing someone who posed no danger, and leaving his calling card into the bargain, before his presidential election and hosting the world cup? None. Or at least, none that we have been told about.
So what is the purpose of the hysterical propaganda war?
Could it be the same as the hysterical propaganda war that has engulfed Jeremy Corbyn? Or the hysterical propaganda war that urged voters to leave the EU? Or the hysterical propaganda war that urged Scottish voters to vote NO?
There is a theme emerging. I’m sure you can detect it. It’s the underlying purpose of this blog. You can’t trust the media, epecially when they act as mouthpieces for the Westminster elite. Sometimes your life depends on not trusting the media. Every national dog whistle has to be resisted.
So I agree with Valerie. It is important to chip away at the wall of complacency that the media constructs. Every chisel helps.
Happy Easter everyone!
I’m a long time “cybernat”. Did it on the Scotsman where the term was coined. Even had a wee website.
What I liked about here was the friendliness of everyone involved…JDman, X-sticks, TJenny, Dramfineday, Ronnie, Ian, Tam, Thepnr, et al.
There are many “new” names upon here, that I have never seen at a rally, or a Wings do.
Of course, Ronnie could be a deep undercover MI6 agent, but if he is he’s very good at it.
To the new guys:
Meet us face to face if you can. *Then* grump.
Conan, new names are not necessarily new people on a forum as you will appreciate, but surely we don’t have to meet up in person to have a valid point?
Keep posting Heed. Just keep posting, they is comin’ fur ye…fur aw that 😉
What’s your ‘valid point’ you ‘don’t like Heed’? ‘Cause what else have you actually said in relation to the atl article or anything else regarding indy?
@Conan The Librarian –
Hoots aplenty!
@ Capella
exactly, but pointing out the duplicitous shenanigans of the UK govt has nothing to do with this blog!!
Is there any greater show of lies, cover ups, media circus than Skripal? It doesn’t matter which theory you do or don’t believe, the point is there are now several to choose from.
The UK govt has instigated the world’s largest diplomatic incident, and we don’t know even the basics of truth here. I think that’s pretty important. We are the ones sitting on Trident, as this ramps up.
I simply reported what a tabloid was now saying. They do have reliable paid police sources, and it’s more than the govt are doing.
I’m sure the UK gov’t are pleased with the pack of squirrels, but this govt is dangerous, and this could quite easily escalate.
I also happen to think there is an impact on independence. “Now is not the time” “Our precious Union” etc.
My post is more relevant than the drivel being posted by trolls, so have a go at them, RSJ, if you need to boss someone around.
@Conan the Librarian –
BTW, I think you’re right about Ronnie being a MI6 asset. He’s just the type they prefer – quiet, unassuming, pleasantly featureless, not likely to make an impression of any kind on anyone. He’s perfect!
Beautiful day out there today, through coastal glens, stunning beauty and clarity, the colours true, ancient mountain textures in ever-changing light, good for the soul.
Only honest men change the world for the better. Soar above division, see all.
So he’s ‘hogging the comments’? Really? You don’t like a posters comments, scroll past. That’s not me telling you that…it’s the Rev? This is his forum, not anyone else’s to dictate how much or how often a commenter posts.
————–
I’m all for ‘new’ disguised as ‘new’ posters or genuinely new posters, but when the first thing that is coming onto to the page is criticisms of long term posters, is it any wonder an eyebrow would be raised?
Nothing to do with ‘thinking’ everyone’s a ‘yoon’, it’s just etiquette, manners, being generally kind. But launching into to others’ who’s posts you don’t like, when the general rule is ‘scroll on’…seems a rather ‘strange’ way to introduce yourself to the forum?
That’s why people are ‘haud oan a minute’. That’s it.
K1, ‘Keep posting Heed’ LMFA0 ‘They is comin’ for you’!
What fantasy world are you living in?
@Valerie / Capella
It is indeed the purpose of this blog, to show how media lies and manipulates. But what is great is when the UK Gov say one thing and the media says another, and it does need to be highlighted, particularly when it’s NOT about Indy because then we’re not directly involved, it’s not about Indy.
If for instance the UK Gov and media both say “pensions are knackered”, then people can believe both, Indy is a bad thing.
But if the UK Gov say the QE carriers have aircraft, and the media say no they don’t, who to believe? From our point of view we don’t care, as long as the NOes and undecideds learn to mistrust at least one of them, and perhaps both.
What do carriers have to do with Indy? Absolutely nothing. But anywhere the UK Gov and media differ, we should point it out and use it for our purposes – to lead people gently away from believing the media – and UK Gov while they’re at it.
So relevance to the cause of Indy seems to me, is 100%.
Valerie
Regarding the evil Russians, was the Police Officer contaminated giving mouth to mouth to the Father?
Just trying to get a picture of how some were poisoned and some were not.
Now this nerve gas that they are talking about is meant to be a slow lingering death. But the opposite is happening.
As i said, this has to be the undeadliest deadly nerve agent ever produced.
The ‘fantasy one where a person comes onto Wings and for no discernible ‘reason’ launches into a ‘direct negative and personal’ comment about another poster, not what the poster has said, the poster himself? Again with no ‘reason’, which is why I said, that’s your opinion, and it is not up to you or any of us to tell people how often they can or can’t comment.
It’s one thing to discuss the ‘content’ of a given comment, that’s fair game. The ongoing and now legendary copy and pasting from the likes of Rock is a slight exception, because it’s all Craig ever does and he particularly goes for Robert Peffers, but he has a ‘file’ on most of those he dislikes. So when other commenters are referring to Rock in this regard, most posters know exactly ‘why’ he is used as a template for anyone who just ‘criticises’ particular posters, for no other reason than they ‘don’t like the cut of their gib’.
But they never address the content of what it is in particular that they are bothered about that ‘the poster’ they are ‘directing negative personal’ comments to? So for example, ‘your hogging comments’ isn’t any kind of point per se, it’s just your opinion. But you didn’t have to come on to Wings to ‘hold that opinion’. You can just scroll past?
So the question remains, what exactly do you ‘object’ to about Heed’s comments, because that part you are not explaining? The we may all get an idea of where you are coming from.
Else, as I stated it just comes across as a ‘direct negative and personal’ comment with no context?
K1
headtracker peffers yesindy2 have got to be the most argumentative posters on Wings.
They are so cutting they could half you in two.
So they leave you with no option but to reply in kind.
No one is coming for heed. That is pure paranoia.
Headtrackers puts himself out there so he deserves all he gets. He never shuts up, he chases you down to the bottom of the page trying to post the last word.
We are all indy supporters, as far as I know, but they have to learn that if the give abuse out, then they have to accept it back.
IMHO
My comment to Heed btw was a ‘joke’…the wee smiley winky thing was the ‘giveaway’.
@pipinghot
That was not my point. There is a constant drizzle of anti SNP comments upon here by supposedly independence minded people.
They may have an argument, which is fine.
But in the early days, before Wings became a target of the British secret service, we mostly knew each other.
Wings comments were not the four or five people wrangling over how I’m not an MI6 plant, “he” is crap, it was about how we could do this thing.
That has gone.
K1 Says I’m all for ‘new’ disguised as ‘new’ posters or genuinely new posters, but when the first thing that is coming onto to the page is criticisms of long term posters, is it any wonder an eyebrow would be raised?
This is why this forum is dying.
“This is why this forum is dying.”
Fucking brilliant botting there.
Crackerjack?
I don’t ‘view’ Heed’s comments as ‘abusive’. In my opinion, you have reacted very aggressively in response to Heed responding to your comments about him?
You are ‘chasing’ him down are you not?
There is room for everyone on here, but is there really any need to ‘reply in kind’ if indeed he was ‘abusive’ in you mind. If as you are sort of saying ‘abuse’ is wrong, then why respond in a similar manner?
If it is wrong for Heed to behave as you describe then surely you must see it is certainly not ‘right’ for you to respond ‘in kind’.
Be yourself and don’t get to so hung up on other commenters.
Heed has a particular ‘schtick’, some of us find his style funny and he has an ascerbic wit, maybe not to everyone’s tastes, but he has regularly commented on this site for over 5 years now, and that to my mind shows that he is not an ‘abusive’ commenter.
I don’t read every comment he makes either, depends on my mood and what he’s on about…but I just scroll past if I’m not interested in anything anyone is saying.
I’ll finish with saying as I stated to pipinghot, my comment to Heed was a ‘joke’. Can you guys try and understand that some of us want to ‘diffuse’ the aggro and use humour…the smiley winky thing is an indicator of the ‘humour’ behind the comment.
Have a good evening.
Conan the Librarian
Have you ever met Mr Peffers or headtracker or yesindy2 at any Rallies???
So what is your point?
Rev’s stats contradict your ‘forum is dying’ comment. No it’s not, 300 thousand views per month on average nail that crap for what it is.
K1 says:
1 April, 2018 at 9:19 pm
Keep posting Heed. Just keep posting, they is comin’ fur ye…fur aw that ?
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine:D
Why these dingalings think they can get people to shadap, I do not know.
Also, why are they so scared of btl WoS comments anyway, its the actual WoS blog up there, is what its all about. I think.
Discussion outside the wee club is dying.
Time for some haemorrhoid cream. Yes,they are a pain in the are.
I’m with you Valerie. The truth needs out. If there are lies in the media, anywhere, they are often twisted, softened even, repeated ad nauseum.
This site is, surely, for any train of thought that challenges the hippocracy in our systems of government and therefore society.
Anything that exposes the media, which nowadays delivers those governments by agenda and propaganda control in place of clear debate and simple manifesto.
What is “Botting”??????????????
Just curious.
pipinghot is a bot
They’re getting better.
pipinghot says:
1 April, 2018 at 10:04 pm
K1 Says I’m all for ‘new’ disguised as ‘new’ posters or genuinely new posters, but when the first thing that is coming onto to the page is criticisms of long term posters, is it any wonder an eyebrow would be raised?
This is why this forum is dying.
No one is preventing you saying anything as you know full well.
Also, this is not a forum.
Its not called the WoS forum. Its a blog, and a lot of other politics too.
So this is why its called the WIngs over Scotland politics and media blog.
Hope this helps you overcome your concerns about btl comments.
Get this tattooed somewhere nice chum,
Wings Over Scotland is a Scottish political website, which focuses particularly on the media – whether mainstream print and broadcast organisations or the online and social-network community – as well as offering its own commentary and analysis.
Hi Ian Brotherhood at 9:29 pm.
You typed,
“BTW, I think you’re right about Ronnie being a MI6 asset. He’s just the type they prefer – quiet, unassuming, pleasantly featureless, not likely to make an impression of any kind on anyone. He’s perfect!”
Yes, I’ve found that, Ian. He comes over as a’ cuddly, then goes for the jugular. A man tro be watched! Certain peeps will cotton on to his philosophy and then go into attack mode. Robert Peffers will not be the only subject of their wrath…
@ Rock
You’re wasting your typing time. Nobody is convinced by your constant attacks on The National. You just bore folk now.
For the lurkers, alas I can’t give you the tune on this forum, but there is one.
Its not sentimental, very far from it, its a conscious call to act, a call to hold the space, breath easy and stand tall, in the face of the utmost provocation.
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shape this world
Yes we can, Yes we can, Yes we can
With our words, with our heads, with our hearts, with our actions.
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet…
And I think and I love, and I am.
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shape this world
Yes we can, yes we can, yes we can
With our words, with our heads, with our hearts, with our actions.
No one can hurt me without my say
No one can hurt me without my say
No one can hurt me without my say…
And I think, and I love, and I am
In a gentle way we can shake this world… Yes we can (words by M Ghandi, re arranged by moi, and for once I think I did the tune… if you could but hear).
Peace and love as a wise man once said. Keep keeping on folks and post positive, it bugs the hell out of em;)
“Have you ever met Mr Peffers or headtracker or yesindy2 at any Rallies???”
Moronic troll makes point.
Eddie Izzard? If that’s the best Labour has in store – goodbye Labour. Looks like self promotion to me, I could be wrong.
Oh god not another post by ‘heedtracker’ have you no job to got to?
Pick a subject pipinghot, related to independence, Scotland’s economy, our history, strategic thoughts on the way forward in getting more people on side, the Tories and their bastarding plans to kill all of us off early?
Post comments about the atl issue or wider political aspect within the UK that affect us here in Scotland, post your views on any number of subjects related to our fight for our independence.
What makes Wings are all the commenters commenting about the subject atl and the wider issues within our communities, that have an affect on all of us.
Moaing about other ‘posters’ and getting everyone tae fuck that we don’t like…what’s that gonna accomplish? Nuthin’ of any value.
Personally ah think, that we are all just very frustrated with the ‘waiting’. Let’s not take it out on each other…too much.
@ Daisy Walker – well said. It isn’t fun scrolling past all the dross but your post has restored a bit of sanity.
pipinghot says:
1 April, 2018 at 10:26 pm
Oh god not another post by ‘heedtracker’ have you no job to got to?
Rock if that’s you, I think indy2 is your best comedy f wit so far, other than yourself ofcourse.
But it is good to see lots of you Rock, telling people to shut up.
Conan
I only asked you if you had ever mey headtracker Peffers or yesindy2 at any Rallies?
It was you who said on a previous post that the best way to identify yourself is to turn up at the Rallies.
You still didn’t answer the question.
And why the cutting remark???
The manners of some Wings posters is terrible.
Gie it a rest piping, you’ve had your wee moan…enough now.
Restating the exact same thing ‘ah dinnae like him’ just comes across as pathetic.
Brian, Ian, there’s a couple of wee trolls on here the nicht; I’m aff tae bed.
PS one of them thinks he’s funny…
pipinghot: “Oh god not another post by ‘heedtracker’ have you no job to got to?”
Iceland shuts at 5.
Nice display England only tory broadsheet treatment of just under half UK territory. No.1 Jezza Corbyn fan Owen Jones, WMD nukes are bad but the region they’re dumped in is totally blanked out of all of it.
link to archive.is
“Cards on the table: I’m a unilateralist but I’ve accepted Labour’s position. It depends how the question is phrased, but polling does not suggest any substantial public appetite for unilateral disarmament. Many unions are opposed. Such a policy would reopen a civil war with a Labour right that is already increasingly febrile”
Scotland’s opinion? Who.
I’ve met indyref2 and had blethers via email. Does that make me a bad person?
For some time now the same couple of dozen poster have been posting on Wings and you have become very inward looking into your own wee bubble.
It must be like staying in a small village somewhere anbd you all know everybody else’s business. Then out of the blue a bus load of strangers turn up with different opinions and ideas.
It doesn’t take long for some of the long term inhabitants to start to question the thoughts of these upstarts who have just arrived.
It’s a case of “Who the hell do you think you are, we have been here for years and we don’t like change”.
Well I’m afraid you will just have to adjust to the change, because nit is here to stay.
Try embracing it, instead of fighting it.
@ Heed
A lot of Indy support followed Owen Jones on Twitter. He seemed a committed, intelligent socialist speaking from the south.
But, recently, omg, he has just slowly lost the plot, and a lot of followers. That most recent pronouncement on Trident just confirms it.
The guy who wrote a book on the ruling elite, has now joined them. The number of positions he has just sold out and it’s party first, full metal Corbynista.
Quite shocking.
Some things are worth repeating, all together now….
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shape this world
Yes we can, Yes we can, Yes we can
With our words, with our heads, with our hearts, with our actions.
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet
You don’t walk through my head with dirty feet…
And I think and I love, and I am.
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shake this world
In a gentle way we can shape this world
Yes we can, yes we can, yes we can
With our words, with our heads, with our hearts, with our actions.
No one can hurt me without my say
No one can hurt me without my say
No one can hurt me without my say…
And I think, and I love, and I am
In a gentle way we can shake this world… Yes we can (words by M Ghandi, re arranged by moi, and for once I think I did the tune… if you could but hear).
Something to ponder, how was it that more than 300,000 Wee Blue Books got distrubted around Scotland from the Shetlands to the Borders in less than two weeks before the referendum?
It was ordinary people that did it, ordinary people who read and contribute on Wings. This involved meeting people, people you had never met before but all had the same goal in mind.
That was a brilliant achievement and only happened because people cared and wanted it to be a success. They wanted to win the referendum.
You’ve all heard of Independence Live and iScot magazine, right? The seeds of their development was born on Wings by two Wingers Thistle and Ken Macaroonbar. They have had some success and are still here almost 4 years later. In no small part I would think thanks to those that read Wings.
My point is Wings is a very important resource for the whole Independence movement, let’s try our best to put the petty bickering behind us. We have much more important issues to discuss and debate. A beakout of some harmony would be most welcome.
Chin up folks, not that long now and it is something worth fighting for. Eyes on the prize.
Conan,
Ah, those were the days and a grand wee website is was too!
Wipes away a tear of nostalgia.
Valerie says:
1 April, 2018 at 10:52 pm
@ Heed
I know. Its interesting to compare Owen Jones to the author of WoS. Their professional profiles and presence on UK msm are both similar and then complete opposite. Jones may not be a UK wide household name but he is among politics nerds, like you and me.
If you’re a blogger like Jones and you’re given this much attention and BBC led UK msm spotlight, you’ve actually joined the tory msm and you have jackshit to say of any real interest.
Harsh but fair:D
Or how comes the author of this blog is almost never heard or seen on any BBC Scotland or STV thingees?
That Graun thing about JC and WMD’s is clearly bullshit. Ex CND veep has ofcourse reneged on his lifetime of No Nuke campaigning, to try and get that all essential middle England vote. Jones will have trousered his The Graun cheque know that full well.
England wants Trident 2, Scotland will be used to store it. Any complaints, you voted NO, who cares what you think.
Its what isolated and low populated regions are for, storing your weapons of mass destruction, so if one goes off, there is minimal damage to the UK.
That’s why Jones simply blanks out his isolated depopulated region of the UK.
Welcome to the UK.
Ian,
Aye, I think you’re right about Ronnie, calls a flan a quiche so he does!
Quiet and retiring, not the sort of guy to be pictured on the front page of a newspa…, oh.. um.
I got my usual sunday paper today and it did not cost me one single penny, you see its a very informative religious paper, you know the kind of paper i mean, its the kind of paper that is concerned about people.
Now i don’t buy ordinary newspapers, why is that you may well ask, well i find that papers you get for free are very honest and trustworthy, i mean why would anyone buy, the Daily Record or the Sun, or even the Daily Star as these papers have their own political agenda that they punt at every opportunity.
If on here i offend anyone, then all i have to say is this, some people need to be offended sometimes, and that includes my good self. in my own defence i will say i am a staunch scottish nationalist and allways have been, so if it my seem i am not sometimes, its maybe not my fault, but i speak from the heart and the lip, if i am not to anyone’s liking then that’s ok, we are all different in the way we think, but i can assure anyone, i have one vote and it will allways go to the SNP until we get independence, i will make my mind up who i will vote for after that happens, but i cannot see me ever voting for any other party in the future unless the Nats let me down, but if that ever does happen i will probably never vote again, how could i give my vote to those parties that have gone out of their way to deny us freedom to rule ourselves, its a tricky one, but i will confront it if and when i ever need to ….. Alba Gu snooker loopy!
Whits this ah lay doon fur ah couple of hours tae recover fae ma excursions & exertions of this week on the Independence campaign trail & am some people oan here hiv me doon as ah Mi6 agent oh er Mrs am deeply deeply mortificated no tae say offendable .
Am gonnae sulk aw week noo .
@Ronnie, Cearc, Thepnr, Conan the Librarian, Heedy, CamB et al –
The main threads are being taken over by these repetitive characters who seem to prefer character assassination and general griping to actual discussion about indy-related nuts & bolts.
We have a busy summer ahead and many readers are watching these threads for news, titbits of info on upcoming marches, socials etc.
I haven’t been commenting much lately, have been too taken-up with The Twitter, but from now on I’ll try to contribute to the main thread, if for no other reason than to stop these boring bastards monopolising it.
Twitter tonight full of Unionists desperate for Carla Ponsati to be publicly hanged drawn and quartered disembowled and pieces of her strewn before all Independence for Scotland supporters in the name of what they call the law, and all so they can make some sort of example, irrespective of this womans plight, to a group of people they don’t agree with who have committed no crime
This transference of hatred by Unionists makes it abundantly clear who are a cult and who are not
Independence supporters like most of us here on this website don’t approve of the hatred of others to achieve what we desire, we look for constitutional reasons, justice and the pursuit of fairness
There seems to be a worsening of the Unionist attitude now where they act and talk like they would be happy if their chosen government (UK) would rain down violence and terror on Independence supporters if they thought *The Law* would allow them, and we see it in the UK government with their style of Judge Dredd *I am the law* approach
If this keeps up it won’t end well for both sides
Hi Conan you did indeed do a splendid job of sending up the Hootsman. So much so that I used to download your page, blow it up to A3 or A4, frame it and hang it on the study wall…happy days. I still have few up in the attic box room, maybe you’ll sign them one day?
I don’t think Ronnie works for MI6 by the way, as when his shed fell down they never replaced it, and how can a man do covert operations with no shed?
Re your comment Thepnr about the wee blue books, spot on.
cearc ah dey know the difference fae ah flan its aw in the taste , any mair o they wee raspberry cakes mmmmm
Mr Anderson
You shouldnae joke about things like being an undercover MI6 agent.
Now people will say:
“What if that Mr Anderson really is an undercover agent?”
You have now planted doubt in some people’s heads.
You know what they’re like.
Owen fucking Jones.
Whoever fell for the well-paid hoary champagne-socialist cliches of that state-approved sponge for the futile dreams of the poor, you have my sympathies.
Mr Anderson
If anybody questions you about whether you are a spy or not, you will just have to answer them in your best James Bond accent and say:
There is Shurely Shum Mishstake here.
Boom Boom !!!
I spoke to Alistair Gordon Rennie at the HooP event & the Wings Stall will be at the Dumfries Rally in June . Meeting with GCC ( Davy McGuiness/gary Kelly/Myself on Thurs 5th Apr to tie up some outstanding issues with the May 5th Rally ( AUOB )
No to shabby fur ah Mi6 agent , its aw in the training manual infiltrate & disseminate .
The Rev taught me weil tae .
Turn over Valerie Singleton your weil roasted oan the wan side ah like ma yoons weil dun .
Why did the great beeb gimp zone make Nigel Farage and UKIP household names again?
link to archive.is
Below is link to a WOS post on April 4th, 2014.
It was the same day we had the first *big* Friends of WOS social, in Glasgow, at the Counting House.
This site was attacked the following day with some ‘spam’ onslaught which made commenting difficult.
Anyway, it’s maybe worth having a swatch below the line, at the comments there – no ‘Rock’ or other obvious pest. The general tone of comments and exchanges is *so* different to what’s been happenng lately, it’s really quite remarkable. Some very familiar names there who we haven’t seen for a long time.
I’m off to The Twitter to issue an appeal for ex-Wingers to come back and reclaim *our* space. Years of work, many thousands of pounds, incalculable effort went into making WOS what it is. We all understand why people get scunnered with political debates in general, but right here we have a specific example of *how* to embed and affirm that ‘scunnering’. The folk doing it know who they are, and no matter how smart they may be in surfing the guidelines, we can’t allow them to ruin this place. We have to fight for it.
If you know anyone who has abandoned WOS, please ask them to reconsider, or at least pop back in to say hello, eh?
🙂
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@ Valerie, re Owen Jones… the Internationalist, Nationalist, Socialist of English persuasion, wants to keep England’s Colonies, but is less honest about it, it will all be done with a sad face, an air of regret, a sorrowful ‘what can be done’ helpless, shrug of the shoulders.
And as long as its wrapped up in a Union Jack and had the word BRTISH stamped on it, they can pretend it all for the greater good, and is not really ‘English’ Nationalism at all.
In this way, from almost day one, has the labour party loyally served the London Establishment. The left cheek of the same skelpit erse.
No doubt young Owen has ‘paid his dues’ credibility wise, and now has to alter the tune to steer some folk away.
The Canary dropped Scotland as soon as Corbyn came on the scene, up till then they were fairly decent, but the novelty wore off. I trust ‘socialists’ less than tories, tories only have the one face and don’t pretend to be friends.
Next Wings social, Otter’s Head, Glenrothes, next saturday, 7th.
details @
link to wingsoverscotland.com
There probably won’t be my raspberry cake, as I’ll be driving down friday. (I’ll do some tomorrow and see what its like in 2 days. I think will be too soggy though).
Ian Brotherhood i spoke to John King at the HooP & asked him to bring the Toybox key back , he’s on the WoS twitteraty page
See we have another couple of nuggets posting personal abuse with ZERO input to the topic.
How wonderfully tiresome.
Indy is coming, you can smell the fear.
@Ronnie A –
I don’t even know what the ‘Toybox’ is. Come to think of it, I’m still not sure what the Hairy String was all about.
FWIW, my latest brainwave is for willing Wingers to submit a mass FOI request to BBC Scotland to see what they’ve got on us in their wee Christmas Tree files.
Ian Brotherhood the Toybox is where we discard the used Trolls after playtime & John King is the keykeeper .
The Hairy String is what Gerry Parker/Jim Brown used to hold our Gazebo together after the SNP gizbo tried to fly over the Wings Stall at the 1st ever Wings Stall at Yes in the Park ( Strathclyde ) Man in the Jar & Rab the Doupter ( as he was then ) Bob Sinclair as now .
Ah the history of Wingers tis ah beautiful thing to be ah part of .
@Ronnie Anderson –
Aye, but the hairy string became part of an initiation ceremony, did it not?
And have I been initiated?
I have not.
That’s why I feel bereft, bitter about the hairy string.
Ian B etc ,
It’s always easy to look back to 2014 & recall the coffee cups getting scalet with many burst out laughter moments.
Like others I spend time on Twitter & have to agree recent Wings trails have become a bit snarky.
I generally whizz past many posts now which is wrong IMHO.
There have always been the occasional “pair” having a wee ding dong but usually they settle.
I’d like to think many of the 2014 Yes folk are nearly always looking in, however why they have refrained from comment may be for many reasons. Remember we were all committed to the cause in 2014 & prepared to dedicate hours of our time reading every post as it was full of information which we wanted to utilise & share with others verbally or on FB etc
Recently , it’s as if we are in a holding pen and kinda stuck in limbo ? & certainly with no actual direction or target to build towards, as in “Scot Ref” is not confirmed.
I appreciate there have been things happening but non have the impact of an actual Scot Ref.
Perhaps we have lost our , dare I say it , “Brotherhood” that bound us in 2014.
If rallying the 2014 troops can bring something back then you have my full support.
Not being techno-savvy or Internet-savvy, I only found WoS in 2014 and only then thanks to an article in The Observer by Kevin McKenna (I can already sense some of you bristling). Since then, I have been happily astonished by Stuart’s doggedness in dissecting the lies we are fed by the media – I think I would have become too depressed to continue long since.
I continue to look forward to Stuart’s new articles. Less so the btl comments, which seem to have turned into a contest between ‘big swinging dicks’ about who can shout loudest and longest about who else is a troll. Nowadays, I tend to look for Nana’s links of a morning (kudos to you and smallaxe, Nana!) and try to ignore everything else. Frankly I think if I were a new convert to this website I would have run a mile – not because of what Stu writes but because of the sheer bampottery of some, and increasingly many, of the comments.
I have and will always support the case for Scotland’s independence – and put my money where my mouth is – but if a good number of you commenters really want to change hearts and minds you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.
I rarely post and always tell myself I’ll not do so again. I await with unbated breath the first person to decide I’m yet another troll. I’m not – I’m just an ordinary wee wumman who’s fed up with what I see on here from commenters. If you want to win the hearts and minds of other ordinary wee men and women, perhaps you need to focus on the facts rather than raging about the personalities.
@geeo, your nose is cleary near your erse if you can smell fear. We mad Unionists are winners.
Stuckdoonhame,
That’s it “Facts”
That was the glue that bound us. “Facts”
“Aats a fact”
Mad Unionist:
Winning what…contempt from decent people?
Peace and Love to All Wingers. Avoid loud and aggressive persons they are vexations to the spirit.
If it takes lying and scaremongering of old people in order to win, well what have you actually won? A hollow victory.
The truth will out and support for Independence is not going away anytime soon.
Hey Ghillie, 750,000+ Wings comments excellent!
Race you to comment nummer 1,000,000.
Via WingsScotland twitter… it’s gonna be funny when some of the press report the soon to be final total for WOS-F18:
link to wingsoverscotland.charitycheckout.co.uk
Over three times the target and continuing to rise hehe!
Hey hey and by the way ronnie anderson ~
That was a cracking photie of you, by the side of Clara.
I noticed and liked the badge on your hat.
Did y’all notice too?
Every William McIdolski rebel needs to yell:
link to youtube.com
Whats all this?
we’ll have no shouting here!
my ears are burning!
Mornin’ jdman, she whispered.
Will we be seeing you and raffles at Glenrothes?
Thepnr says:
2 April, 2018 at 2:13 am
If it takes lying and scaremongering of old people in order to win, well what have you actually won? A hollow victory.
The truth will out and support for Independence is not going away anytime soon.
Agreed. We must be honest, However, that includes spelling it out as it is. BREXIT is a real threat to all of us and a repeat of the 100% positive campaign of 2014 would be a mistake. The future is now uncertain, whichever way you look at it. This actually works in our favour.
Independence is a risk, Status quo is now a risk. People will realise this and want all the info (good and bad) before they come to their own conclusions and decisions. We must always be “nice” but we cannot afford to be too nice this time. There is too much at stake. If pensions are at risk, we must say so.
@Stuckdoonhame: nice to meet you [and love the name!]. That’s the spirit – there’s more good folk on here – lurking and commenting – than otherwise.
Cearc and all – enjoy yourselves. Some of us have “work” to do but will be thinking of you and looking forward to reading a few comments.
I must go back and look at the Clara photos to see if I can spot the shy and retiring Ronnie!
HI
It has definitely been a drean mmc web page – UK (England for short) has no news about brexit.
Doesn’t exist. We all imagined it! News organisation claims to be impartial shock.
All diversionary stories. Another day Gone
bbc web page.
@stuckdoon hame: there’s more good than bad on here – nice to meet another of the former [and love the name!].
Cearc et al – enjoy yourselves at Glenrothes.
I’ll look at the Clara photos again to try to spot the shy and retiring Ronnie!
Today’s National front page:
Megrahi was convicted in a Unionist court. Set up by McConnel and abused by unionists. Blair and Murdoch. It had nothing to do with the Scottish Justice system. Blair and the London Court. To try and block Scottish appeals to ECHR unlawfully. Blair and Murdoch and their associates killed and maimed millions of people. In order to line their pockets. You can’t take it with you. Murdoch now selling up. He can get lost. Murdering low life. Printing nonsense. Now going down the drain. Thatcher’s henchman illegally given control of the Press by the lying Westminster unionists sychophants. Killing and maiming millions.
These illegal criminals should be on trial at The Hague. If there was any justice in the world. Crooks, criminals and greedy liars. Buying privilege. Manipulating elections for money. Gerrymandering. Most of them should be in jail. They did not even want to let Megrahi home to die but Scotland treated him with compassion.
Megrahi was head of security at Libyian Stste airlines and strategic studies. Attended Carrif University.
The crooks, criminals and greedy liars. Westminster unionists and theur associates taking £Billiions out of Scotland. Depopulating Scotland until there will be no one left. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act.
Lockerbie, Dunblane and Iraq kept secret for 100 years.
Today’s National Twitter pages:
link to twitter.com
It’s neither the trolls, nor the troll feeders which bother me, but the absence of any pro independence narrative and momentum.
At this moment in time, I find that strategy unfathomable, and frankly inexcusable.
There is no coordinated progressive initiative for people to get behind. The only comfort is that support for Independence “somehow” remains solid, but I get the sense these days that such stubborn support for Independence is in spite of the SNP, not because of it, and as time goes by, there is a growing dread that such support is as likely to fall through despair as it is to rise through optimism. That, I’m sorry to say, I pretty much can attribute to the SNP.
I just want somebody to stand up for my country’s place in Europe, not fashion itself as a riddle, wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma. It’s not rocket science. Brexit was the brainchild of imbeciles. Just be a bit smarter than they were and that’ll do! We’ll win!
There are so many breaking issues and revelations about Brexit, so many flaws in the protocols and fractures in the democracy, so many threats, so many inevitabilites, so many alarm calls, so many harbingers of the colourless doom which awaits us after Brexit, and yet still our leadership remains insipid and demure. Labour would struggle to make themselves yet more anaemic and irrelevant, while the Tory’s money grasping sociopathy has rarely been so raw and over extended,… yet there is no challenge to them. “Wait boys,”
When Westminster says it’s dragging Scotland out of Europe, I want somebody to stand firm and say “No you’re fecking not! I don’t want some reluctant wringing of hands and say “It’s ok Europe, we’ll still keep in touch”. That is appeasement! Appeasement of Westminster and their grossly damaging Brexit and the flagrant subjugation of Scotland’s Sovereign will. You don’t fall into line with that crap, you stand firm and fight it.
I don’t know what to think, what to do, or who to turn to. If the SNP haven’t been “nobbled” in the bar, its increasingly difficult to discern whether any differences in strategy would be apparent if they had been.
Now you can whine about my SNPBadness, call me a troll, do what whatever floats your boat. I really don’t care. Even that routine is stale, tiresome and formulaic. The SNP has the easiest gig ever to befall a progressive Independence movement; a glaring democratic deficit, humiliating and unconstitutional subjugation, a truckload of moral authority, a monstrous archetypal pantomime villain in the shape of Westminster, unbridled contempt for us in the State propaganda, and a great family of powerful Nations in Europe wanting to reach out and help Scotland save itself from the Abyss… Yet none of these “gifts” to our campaign are being weaponised to our advantage or used to steer our “campaign” towards deliverance. These events are not becoming benchmark waypoints in our journey, they are missed opportunities disappearing in the rear view mirror.
Instead we have the parochial “Trust Nicola” platitudes; don’t interrupt your enemy making a mistake, it’s all coming together any moment, don’t rock the boat….. It’s all humdrum rhetoric from SNP acolytes who are lucky enough to have faith, but who have nothing to offer the rest of us but their faith. Sorry. Time is running out. It isn’t enough.
The final countdown to Brexit has begun its final year, and not so much as a fecking peep. Leadership? What Leadership? Is the SNP committed to the EU or just the Single Market Soft Brexit? I desperately hope the former, but sickeningly fear the latter, but I’m fecked if I actually know. There are many, many, despondent and disenfranchised people in this country who do not care. If we do not reach out to them, they will not be reached. That grey inertia could be the death of us.
Scotland’s great pledge to Europe, Scotland’s great standing ovation – “Scotland did not let you down, I beg you, don’t let Scotland down” rhetoric risks going down as Scotland’s Great Rock and Roll Brexit Swindle.
No timetable. No red lines. No ultimatums. No watersheds. No lines in the sand. What’s the plan here? All the initiative which should properly be ours, has all been forfeited to Theresa May’s arbitrary whim, who can deal with Scotland effectively and indefinitely by just ignoring us. 12 more months, job done, but Job done for whom?
@Breeks
I hear you and think of you whenever you get someone saying like “Let’s be independent first before thinking of ur relationship with Europe” as Carolyn Leckie in the National does today.
Because by the time we’re independent, the UK will have fully left the EU dragging Scotland with it, whether we want to go or not.
And that is a betrayal of trust. The decision about the EU, or EFTA, or none, must be taken via a referendum BEFORE we’re fully dragged out of the EU so we can remain in the Single Market minimum while negotiating our official entry into the EU as a member in our own rights – if that is the will of the Scottish people after a YES vote.
It’s our decision, not Carolyn Leckie’s – nor the SNPs either, whether independence in tht EU remains their police or not, we must be given a chance to reamin at least in a transitionary state, within the EU or single market while we decide.
Hiya Cearc,
I’m sure I heard Irene talking to Ronnie about that on the phone,
I forgot to ask her, I would hope we will be going, what date is it and where is the venue?
OK. The SNP apparently have an awful lot of opportunities due to the actions of others. They would benefit from launching an all out attack on the public using these gifts from the Establishment . Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
We spend hours on this very forum bemoaning the fact that every main media outlet whether radio or printed deliberately surpresses views from the SNP and any indy minded person or organisation. They promote Unionists without right of reply. They distort, cut,paste edit to suit their agenda.
Now ,after all that we have people saying the SNP are being too quiet, they are not using the gifts fortune is throwing up to help them.
How exactly can the SNP overcome that ? Mass telepathy ?
It’s one thing criticising the SNP for being quiet,but it is quite another when they are are being deliberatel silenced by almost every news dispenser in the country.
If I am wrong I will accept that. However—–
Luigi,
Spot on. The disruption of the Brexit Union to the status quo is greater than that of independence.
Independence is the new status quo.
A good starting point are the 759 treaties and international agreements that Britain will lose after Brexit, handily listed by the FT.
link to archive.is
These all end in less than a year. Any transition deal with the EU only applies to the UK’s relationship with the EU it doesn’t cover third party agreements. These need to be replaced with a bilateral agreement with each of the countries concerned this year and not much progress has been made there.
Pensions? Yep, let’s fight to hang on to our status as having the worst pension of all OECD countries!
May, the Hedge fund owner and the Tory associates are trying to shut the Guardian up again. How long before they try to put ‘D’ notice on. Under the Official Secrets Act. To hide their criminality.
Cameron/Clegg put the robocops in to smash up the mail office and threaten the Editor with jail. The editor was side stepped up stairs. Greenward still campaigning,
The Guardian is still campaigning. Wants £ with £Billion in reserves. For any mug around. Bung them one.
The Guardian the only paper of any Independence of editorial. The continuation. The owners give up £million to make it happen.
Cameron, Clegg where are they now. Paid for their lies and duplicity. Still embezzling public funds. Get elected and lie to ruin the world. The pig sucker. Some people never learn. .
The Constitution even
Predick
jdman,
Sat April 7th, Otter’s Head, Glenrothes.
Be there or be square!
details:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Stop critising the SNP. Cut off your nose to spite your face again because of not getting a reply to two e-mails. Give it a rest. The SNP is the only mass vehicle for Ibdependence. The only one, so get behind it. Totally. Not be diverted by diversions. Negative,
There is a need for a central bank.
Everything that needs to be done is being done. Everything is being put in place, This time it will be won,
‘Scotland the Brand’ is probably the most important campaign to get behind at the moment.
Politically, it combines the damage that will be done to Scotland both by leaving the EU and by UKgov.
It is easy to explain.
cearc I phoned Irene ( jdman ) the other week to let her know about the night out , she’s not to mobile at the moment but hopefully she & John will be there .
Good interview here with tommy Sheridan..
link to app.viloud.tv
Morning all, and Happy Easter Monday
It’s been AGES since I last made any BTL comment on Wings, mostly because I have become addicted to Twitter for a while as a temporary distraction, and that has admittedly stolen far too much of my time. Getting a wee bit scunnered with Twitter now, owing to the bickering within our own side, the attention-seeking, and the troll-heavy botting stuff from the Unionist machine.
So, I have heeded the call from Ian Brotherhood for old “Early Days” Wingers to come back into the fold…
Not sure quite what has been happening here BTL recently, but a quick scroll up and down this thread has given me a flavour.
FWIW, I concur with the comments of peeps above (you all know who you are), with whom we met up in the early days; socialised with, made friends with, and trusted – and as Thepnr says – made that massive effort to distribute as many WBBs as possible up and down the land in those last frantic weeks of autumn 2014. It was exciting; it was imperative, and we also had quite a lot of fun doing it! The Wings “thing” also, as Thepnr says, spawned the excellent Independence Live and iScot magazine initiatives. So lots of great things were generated, and we’ve lots to be proud of. Not to mention, friendships made to last. A genuine, and genuinely important, contribution to the grassroots movement. I think it’s only fair to recognise who these folk were, and what they achieved. A merry band of strangers who met and worked together and so very nearly won the day. That’s not being “cliquey”, merely historically factual and respectful. The Rev Stuart Campbell and the uniqueness of his site content, has to be thanked for that from the bottom of our hearts.
Now, with IndyRef 2 just around the corner (and by that I mean whichEVER time it happens to be between this coming autumn and 2021, because we have to be ready regardless and I personally am not a fan of getting drawn into arguments about the timing: it’s any time now IMHO), I feel a strong pull to “fall back in” with my wee Wingy crowd. There is going to be a lot of work to do and there is strength in having a wee bunch of trusted comrades and a pool of different skills to complement each other. Again, as Thepnr says (I should be paying him copyright dues) – eyes on the prize!
However this is absolutely NOT about being cliquey or “exclusive”. The Wings BTL thing was never about that – despite some bewildered and missing-the-point comments above by certain troublemakers. Alongside the valuable roots and foundations set down by the “Early Days Wingers”, we should of course be as welcoming to new readers, new Wingers and interested lurkers as it’s possible to be. And I believe we are that! It’s not vital to be able to meet socially, although it’s great when we do. Distance, lesser mobility and lack of funds will prevent some folks from being able to meet up, even if they wish to, but their contributions on here are just as important as everyone else’s. I’m thinking of Robert Pfeffers, for example, whose astounding detailed knowledge of Scottish history and constitutional issues he has patiently and repeatedly written about here for several years now, to the new and growing audiences.
The main point I am trying to make is that EVERY TRUE SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE SUPPORTER is welcome on Wings, whether they are part of the original band, or have joined the site since 2014.
Regretful or curious “No” voters and “Don’t Knows” are also very welcome, and I believe, on the whole, their questions and reservations are responded to in good faith and spirit on here by the many experts in their respective fields that Wings readers comprise. And that is of course the whole point of our very existence – to persuade more people, one by one, of the merits of and need for Independence. And it’s working.
In fact the only people, frankly, who are not welcome here, are the stirrers, the troublemakers, the hard-core steel-encrusted BritNats, and the psy-ops agents from the British Establishment machine. All of these can go and take a flying fish tae themselves along with a skelp on the arse, and a growing realisation that no matter how hard they try, and how “subtle” they think their modus operandi might be, they are just simply never going to win, in the end. So if that happens to be you, ye’re ontae plums, pal.
an independent scotland would need to apply for eu membership via article 49 as a new member
this is the case whether we do this before or after the uk leaves on the 29 march 2019
@Breeks
Well said Breeks.
@Bob Mack says: 2 April, 2018 at 9:01 am:
“It’s one thing criticising the SNP for being quiet,but it is quite another when they are are being deliberatel silenced by almost every news dispenser in the country.
If I am wrong I will accept that. However—–”
Well said, Bob Mack.
Having looked at the fund raiser and its total so far , I wonder if the ‘visitations’ are set up to disrupt the most successful independence blogger.
I was kind of hoping it would irritate the hell out of them!
Quinie,
Well said.
wrt “missing” Wingers – have not seen “Scottish Skier” for years!
@ Quinie frae Angus – great to see you commenting again. Yes Indyref2 is drawing close and we wil all have to focus on the goal. Happily, the outbreak of trolling is evidence that success is at hand.
Keep on posting!
BTW Ian Brotherhood ah know whit the BBC hiv in store fur me ah hiv aboot ah hunner n fifty threatening letters fae them most lie unopened just the word Darlington on the back is the indicator no need to open .
You shall have the fair hand of Paula Rose holding the Hairy String & be nighting U ( nite & day ) can’t be any fairer than that .
@Quinie frae Angus –
Hear hear.
schrodingers cat says:
2 April, 2018 at 9:46 am
an independent scotland would need to apply for eu membership via article 49 as a new member
this is the case whether we do this before or after the uk leaves on the 29 march 2019
Tell me how East Germany who met none of the conditions made it in? Whereas we are in.– Politics
As with my previous proviso the EU and hounding by Spain and violence against Catalonia may well tip my view that we should not remain in the EU at this time.
Julian Assange internet access blocked for about a week now.
Don’t know if anyone’s referred to this already but no harm in giving it another little push. Public opinion is irrelevant of course but still the bigger the number of signatures the more nervous and jumpy the opponents of free speech get as they realise their propaganda isn’t working as effectively as they need it to
link to change.org
I should have added but whatever happens we vote for Independence first to get away from the corrupt westminister union and the hard line brexiters.
link to thenational.scot
i disagree with caroline’s euref format once indy
“hold a three-option referendum on Scotland’s relationship with Europe, by single transferable vote, would go a long way. Those options could be to rejoin the EU as a full member; to sign up to the single market via the European Free Trade Association; or for Holyrood to take full control of the Scottish economy.”
the last option looks like having “leave” on the ballot paper once again. only a few months ago 62% rejected that option
the EFTA option (and EEA) was by definition also supported by the 62%. ie. you cant be an eu member and not be in the single market and customs union.
neither of these options need put to a plebicite
an EUREF in an indy scotland should be about what sort of eu membership the people want, eg my preference would be full membership with the euro, others might want a swedish type membership and keep the £scots etc.
the default option of the status quo, ie efta/eea would be the fall back
Hamish100
east germany became part of an eu member state, the same would apply to NI
the eu’s position regarding newly emerging independent states like scotland, catalonia, britany, friesland etc, is based on political pragmatism.
encouraging parts of existing member states to break away isnt within their remit. the 27 members would not support any EU body that did this.
we must win indyref2 on our own, dont look for help from the EU
however,once we are independent i think the eu would welcome us with open arms and any membership request from scotland would be quickly processed.
Bill McLean
Best not name drop too many , Otherwise “Will Podmore” may return. Smiley
Bill McLean says:
2 April, 2018 at 10:08 am
wrt “missing” Wingers – have not seen “Scottish Skier” for years!
I will tell him he’s being missed!
@Quinie frae Angus 9.35am
Well said. 🙂
Quinie frae Angus, great post, good to see you back. Keep them coming. 🙂
Breeks, disagree, most folk I speak to at the moment are scunnered with politics, they dont want to talk about constitional issues, they have their heads in the sand regarding Brexit. Their attention will be gained when they realise how their lives will be affected by Brexit and due to misinformation no connection has been made to the the hyper inflation in the shops and Brexit.
Fraid your just going to be patient.
Well said Quinie frae Angus.
I agree completely. I found this thread degenerated greatly and I thank those ( you know who you are ) for saving my BTL time by scrolling past my list of not worth reading entries.
Glad to see Ian Brotherhood back to active mode. Thanks Mister!
Dr Morag (daughter of the manse) has been missing for quite some time. I met her on the Mound talking to Rev Stu. Come back Morag.
I repeat a posting I made some time ago. “I await the call to arms!”
link to theguardian.com
““The position in Scotland hasn’t changed,” Minor said. There is a clear process for any applicant country under article 49 of the European treaties. “That would also apply to Scotland. If Scotland became an independent country I think article 49 is the normal starting point,””
link to independent.co.uk
“the Scottish Government’s plans for a second vote, Margaritis Schinas, the spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be granted automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.”
the eu’s position is clear, this is what we need to deal with during the indyref2 campaign. we cannot wish it away
schrodingers cat
As England and Wales are definitely leaving the EU, it would seem highly likely Scotland could apply to join/stay in while still in the UK and the rUK is in the process of leaving. I don’t think there are any set rules for Scotland’s situation.
Brian Powell
except that the eu has repeatedly said we will need to rejoin.
the window for us to hold indyref2 before march 19 is closing.
if nicola opts for autumn 2019 the point becomes academic
yesindyref2 says:
2 April, 2018 at 8:47 am
Because by the time we’re independent, the UK will have fully left the EU dragging Scotland with it, whether we want to go or not….
“By the time” eh?
That sounds like Theresa May’s negotiating strategy. Waffle and prevaricate, and see who or what is left standing when the time runs out.
Since 24th June 2016, Scotland has had a Constitutionally sovereign mandate to contest the issue of Brexit but has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it. We have sought neither clarity nor recognition of Scotland’s inalienable popular sovereignty which, even on some probationary level of recognition could have secured recognition from the EU that Scotland could be respected as an international interlocutor with a legitimate voice over Brexit. We don’t. We are not even allowed in the room.
Scotland might not thus be bound to Articles 48 or 49 of the Lisbon Treaty, neither of which are applicable to the emergence of a sovereign state which is already party to EU Membership. There would have been time to negotiate a bespoke middle way, somewhere in between Articles 48 and 49, and we might “by this time” have been able to submit before the people of Scotland a Constitutionally sound and legislatively competent alternative to leaving the EU.
Even, as might seem appropriate in some respects, Scotland did need to symbolically terminate one membership to begin another, those preparatory negotiations could have been running parallel to the UK Brexit negotiations, and any transitional arrangements necessary could have been made ready and resolved ahead of an instantaneous switch between a very ill fitting and impractical Continuer UK State Membership and a tailor made EU Membership for the Sovereign Nation of Scotland.
It is heartening that Mike Russell finally seems resolved to contest the Constitutional boundaries of the Union as they relate to powers being Brexited from Europe, but why the concern over Brexited powers? Why was there no similar resolve to contest the Constitutional ramifications of Scotland’s sovereign people declaring the UK should remain? It is one and the same Constitutional principle of sovereignty at issue! Curious priorities for a pro-Independence party.
The “Democracy” of Brexit was a draw. In a Bipartite Treaty of Union, one Sovereign Nation elected for Brexit, the other Soveregn Nation elected to stay. Two votes and a tied result… To compel the will of one Nation upon the other is unconstitutional subjugation which international Law will confound, and the only Constitutional resolution of the crisis is a formal dissolution of the Union, or at minimum, a quasi-Federal arrangement where Scotland’s Sovereignty is somehow covered by the United Kingdom Union, but free to enter independent sovereign agreements. That’s a contradiction in terms I know, but that’s the only option where the UK might survive in some watered down form.
The Brexit referendum was nearly two years ago. If we are now running out of time to save ourselves from Brexit, then who can we hold to account for squandering two vital years through inaction and indecision?
My fear is that “by the time” we know the final Brexit deal, Nicola’s IndyRef trigger, the Brexit deal will be final. Scotland’s subsequent emancipation from the United Kingdom will be chronologically inferior to the UK’s “Final” Brexit deal, and our Constitutional lifeline with Europe will already be severed. Too little, too late.
EU makes its rules as it goes along. Any country which has what EU want will be a member quicker than blink. Look at the offer Ukraine got.
@schrodingers cat is correct
For the next scotref we cannot offer too many hypothetical propositions, they are too easily dismissed as unclear. Our European plans must be clearly in our own hands & not subject to the whims of others
Breeks @ 8.35am Breeks you were told the strategy last year. We wait until the Brexit mess is clear to all the people who still haven’t realised what is going to happen to them. Nicola said last year that calling indyref2 will probably be decided around the autumn of 2018 when the final deal has to be presented to the EU six months before we ‘leave’. We saw what happened last year when indyref was called prematurely and the three unionist parties and the entire MSM mounted their offensive against us. The Brexit disaster is unfolding relentlessly with even the fishermen realising(but few admitting) they are going to get stuffed for the benefit of London’s financial sector. Everything is going to plan for indyref2. As with the general election last year something unplanned could happen at any time and that is why we must be ready to go at short notice but at the moment we must work to the plan. There are many more ready to go into action this time and we are all a lot wiser.
Bit over dramatic there Breeks.
There has been, in my opinion, a requirement for WM to hang themselves with their own rope.
If we had pushed the Constitutional issue and Scots sovereignty, too early (it is already a FACT) then WM, in true WM fashion, would surely have created a ‘fudge’ which would/could have taken away our reason for indyref2.
Remember, we NEED to be dragged out the EU to justify indyref2, and that cannot be confirmed until Sept 29th, when the deal is known.
If we call a referendum NOW, and in a couple of weeks, WM suddenly decide we (Scotland) CAN remain IN the CU and SM, where does that leave us ?
In my opinion, it MUST be a late call, or we risk being out-flanked.
Pretty sure the SNP Scotsgov and FM know what they are doing here.
This is a time for cool heads, not losing our heads.
Breeks, disagree, most folk I speak to at the moment are scunnered with politics, they don’t want to talk about constitutional issues, they have their heads in the sand regarding Brexit.”
A lot of people are just trying to survive, get through long 10 and 12 hour work days, 8 day weeks, shite pay, wildly greedy bosses, shithead union reps living the good life, all for giant corps making even more giant profit, all once owned by everyone. One of the great triumphs of planet toryboy is the UK class system, social, economic etc.
Laboour’s full of troughing arsewipes and not for nothing did the last broadsheet The Graun turn out to be just as reactionary toryboy as all the rest, 2014.
link to bbc.co.uk
Malnourished pupils with grey skin are “filling their pockets” with food from school canteens in poor areas due to poverty, head teachers say.
The heads, from various parts of England and Wales, described differences in the appearance of some pupils.
One head said: “My children have grey skin, poor teeth, poor hair; they are thinner.”
@schrodingers cat
@Brian Powell
Also bear in mind, Scotland would need to be an independent country before becoming a member of any international affiliation.
Suppose we had a YES win this Autumn, or next year sometime, how long before we take our seat at the UN having uncoupled from rUK and having sufficient instruments of state functioning?
In the in-between period perhaps some sort of single market sandbox is available as part of the UK’s transition.
My big concern over this period is how does London react? After the YES win, possibly from a consultative referendum, does WM say … ‘fair enough, we’ll pass all necessary legislation asap’ … or do they play silly buggers hoping to thwart our departure?
If WM and the Tories behaviour since EURef is anything to go by, I fear the Scottish negotiating team will be faced with a challenge perhaps best described in metaphors like ‘herding cats’ or ‘nailing jelly to the ceiling’!
I cannot imagine WM behaving reasonably!
@shrodingers cat.
The EU as a body, has NEVER OFFICIALLY said Scotland would need to rejoin.
They do not have an official and definitive position.
schrodingers cat at 11.05
“the Scottish Government’s plans for a second vote, Margaritis Schinas, the spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be granted automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.”
That statement is essentially meaningless,as I am sure was the intention. The key is in the word “automatic”.Of course access would not be “automatic”.Commitments would have to be formalised etc
It could just as readily have said
“the Scottish Government’s plans for a second vote, Margaritis Schinas, the spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be guaranteed automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.”
and mean exactly the same. The notion that the EU would provide any barriers to the country with most of the oil and gas,most of the fishing waters and a strategic command of the North Atlantic is absurd.
Jock McDonnell says:
2 April, 2018 at 11:24 am
@schrodingers cat is correct
For the next scotref we cannot offer too many hypothetical propositions, they are too easily dismissed as unclear. Our European plans must be clearly in our own hands & not subject to the whims of others”
EU membership is important ofcourse but somehow, SNP Scots gov has to face the BIG issues, like Scotland’s currency. Scots have to know exactly what money will be in their pockets and they have to trust it.
If indyref2 has not got Scottish currency nailed down this time, we are just going to see Chancellor Hammond do a 2014 Chancellor Osborne, fly up to Edinburgh, hug Colonel Ruth, hold massed ranks of beeb gimps press conference, “Scotland cannot use our pound.” Hug the Colonel again, good lunch, jet back to Whitehall in time for tiffin.
BBC Scotland gimpery takes care of the rest.
No idea what tiffin is.
If WM try to act the arse post Yes, we simply tell them that we will assume immediate and full control of our waters/continental shelf, and order Trident be removed with immediate effect.
We hold the important cards post Yes.
My head is with TheBuchanLooney though I regularly feel like Breeks.
However, the head must rule.
No one ever said Independence would be easy but waiting in uncertainty and in seeming inactivity is hard to bear. Yet bear it we must.
Timing is however everything, and the time will be right when we know clearly and in writing what exactly the Brexit deal will be. (The resolution of the Irish border will be of huge significance just by itself. It would be folly not to wait for clarity on that issue alone.)
Hamish 100 says:
“Tell me how East Germany who met none of the conditions made it in? Whereas we are in.– Politics”
————-
East Germany was an integral part of the German State until just after WW2 when due to international politics Germany was internally divided up into the 4 Allied sectors – French, British, American and Russian. The State still existed.
As part of an effort to create and stabelise the Russian socialist/communist sphere of influence to the west of it’s borders the Russian sector in Germany was “allowed” by Russia to declare itself independent and named itself “German Democratic Republic” (DDR).
In 1989 during a period of turbulence and political instability in the East Block, the “Wall” fell.
Western leaders and the German Chancellor, Helmut Kohl, quickly used the weakness of Russia to “arrange” for East Germany (DDR) to be allowed to rejoin the non-dissolved German State (BRD).
The DDR Parliament met and voted to dissolve the DDR and requested to rejoin the State that it had formally belonged to 40 years ago.
It was not a case of “East Germany” joining the EU but of the reunification of a country. As Germany (West) was already an EU member, the smaller add-on was accepted as simply being a part of the whole.
Its a funny old world
Yes it is a funny old world sometimes, we have people who say, the SNP need to be more clear when we have the next referendum, It was quite clear the last time, scotland could and would use the pound as our currency, was that not clear enough, why would the rest of the uk and business disagree with that, it was the only thing to do, anyone who has ever changed pounds into another currency knows you get charged for the transaction, so the lies about that from the no side where just ridiculous.
Now we have Lord Darling, the scotsman that never was getting his reward for being the chief liar for unionism, a man that has never had any relevence to anything pertaining to scotland.
Anyway, it does not matter what the SNP say or do in the next referendum, the lying machine will be put on full throttle, and lets be honest, they know they are liars, we know they are liars, and the worse thing is, they know we know they are liars, but they still tell lies, cause lets be honest, they can’t very well afford to tell the truth.
Alba Gu snooker loopy!
Professional liars whine, about professional liars, shock!
link to archive.is
Why report nowhere-man Nigel Farage tipping fish in the Thames but not the thousands marching against Brexit last Saturday? Leavers protest the BBC covers every report on likely Brexit damage but no good news. So the BBC treads barefoot along a broken glass line, always at risk of splitting the difference between flat- and round-earthers: it can’t get everything right. But it retains more public trust than any other source, its “reality check” site as honest as there is. Risk that at our peril.
We need the trusted arbiters more than ever.”
Last time I saw Toynbee on the Ligger Neil Vote tory lunch time show, she said No Scot should ever allowed near high office in UK gov, after 2014.
East Germany was in the UN etc. Separate country. I suppose my point is if it suits the EU it will accommodate. Same for Scotland which is in the EU!
The SNP are fighting on a few fronts. The long game assimilation of powers was spotted and attacked, the Independece in EU was spotted and attacked, the majority in both Parliaments was spotted and attacked – all this almost simultaneously and in short timescale. There are calls for the SNP to open another front and direct a grassroots independence campaign along the lines of Indyref1. Some need a totem to rally around, others want some sort of “Go Code” whether that is from on high (I’m quite sure we had that last year from the SNP and a £1 million war-chest was looked for, how did that go?) or perhaps the trigger is the result of a political “incident” something is awaited by everyone to mobilise the machine.
There is a slight difference this time from the last;
In 2012 we were fighting the first battle, trying to raise the numbers. It took two years of campaigning and organisation to do this from scratch and came very close. This time the presumption is that the ground has already been prepared, the debates have been had over a further 4 years, core support is said to be steady at its closing figure of 45% – It is a big presumption, but its premise is that this time a 2 year lead is not required to mobilise, that hard-core mass conversion is not the strategy. It is a 5%+ push. This may come from the current political events. Agreed, there may be a slide of support in both directions over the EU, but the trigger (when and if it occurs) will be swift. It will not require arguments ad-infinitum over finance and pensions. It will be won on point of principle. Scotland has been discussing the independence arguments for 6 years. Now it’s itching for a reason, not a debate.
There are three bites of the cherry. An indyref, Scottish & General elections, all falling in rapid succession. All in the shadow of Brexit. Any long campaign will merely be bogged in the minutiae of Brexit arguments, EU arguments, not Independence arguments. That is why I believe Indyref will be short and sharp. A political incident or incidents will trigger it. I think people are not waiting to be convinced, they are waiting to vote.
All anyone needs shown is the support is still there around them. No reason to fear and doubt they are in a vacuum, that it all slid away and died. A quick mass distribution of material, posters stickers, media exhortations and importantly, a big visible presence on the streets – That can be done in weeks. We have done it before. It will be swift and furious. Time to think is time to doubt. Better together won on fear and emotion not facts. It will be emotion carries the day this time for us.
I await a storm of disagreement but at least it will be discussing tactics I hope and not “but Brexit…” F@#k Brexit ! Can you put a Yes Stall together with merch and stickers in a day. Do you know the numbers or contact details of Yes units across the country? No. Well lets at least break out the dusty rolodexes and sound off – An official YES HQ and its personnel can and will be targetted and cut, make sure it’s a Hydra. YES still have physical hubs, bars, cafe’s fundraisers. Drop in this week to your local, drop them a couple of quid, offer printing services or just moral support. Say hello online. Just make sure you’re trousers aren’t round your ankles when the YES ballon goes up.
@Iain mhor
A very good post and one I wholeheartedly agree with. A swift campaign will suit the Yes side, we can be very nimble and get stuck in from the off. I think the No side need time to install all that doubt and fear all over again.
The vast majority of those we want to win over only make their minds up a week or two before the vote at most. A 3 or 4 month campaign I think is plenty long enough as long as we are prepared to break out of the traps and get after the hare as soon as the bell has rung.
A second indyref is going to happen and we need to prepare for that now not when it announced, I hope others take heed of your point about dropping into your local Yes shop or cafe. Making yourselves known is a good idea as you can be sure that plenty of volenteers and boots on the ground will be needed when the starting gun is fired.
@Iain mhor
Waiting to vote I am, ready when it comes. 🙂
First post I read this today and it heartened me thanks.
I agree we don’t need another long protracted campaign with lots of diversions about currency, etc. These were done to death during the last campaign.
This is about Scotland deciding it’s own future status within Europe and the World. Who decides what happens to our industries, agriculture, fisheries, renewables and carbon resources. Are we to control these ourselves or hand them over to WM to exploit as they see fit. The choice seems simple this time, can we effectively get this message cross?
@jfngw
Again I totally agree, the next referendum is all about who makes the choices. Those elected by us in Scotland or those elected by the rest of the UK in Westminster.
That’s about the crux of the matter for me at least.
Once again Mr.,Peffers,defends the SNP position of doing nothing he seems always to be happy to see the SNP ship sailing towards the rocks and to talk down people who are concerned about the people who are becoming down hearted about all this because it is and will lose the SNP support as I have said on here before I wonder who the real trolls are on here ???
Who decides what happens to our industries, agriculture, fisheries, renewables and carbon resources. Are we to control these ourselves or hand them over to WM to exploit as they see fit”
They already are though, or rather, they’ve all been sold off, out of public ownership and in to private, giant City pension and hedge funds, giant corps around the planet, some actually publicly owned by other countries, around the world.
People understand this. We know that everything our forefathers worked to build, energy, transport, social housing, royal mail, all our mineral resources, all of its been sold, not just to the rich tories, even the lotto’s owned by the Canadian Teachers pension fund.
If we can understand how Project Fear worked in 2014, and deal with it indyref2, we’re nearly there.
Scots have got to be able to choose, clearly. 2014, Project Fear went after anything and everything that Scots might be concerned about but the really big one was, what money will be in my bank account tomorrow, if I vote YES? We didn’t know. If we did know, the 5 to 15% undecided may well have gone YES.
The tories have now even sold off English uni, its all now a giant cash cow business, run by wildy greedy tories and ofcourse City profit takers.
And we all know SLabour are going to do the same to higher ed in their Scotland region, for social justice n shit.
Re: The SNP
There is no coordinated progressive initiative for people to get behind.
The only comfort is that support for Independence “somehow” remains solid, but I get the sense these days that such stubborn support for Independence is in spite of the SNP, not because of it.
As time goes by, there is a growing dread that such support is as likely to fall through despair as it is to rise through optimism.
That, I’m sorry to say, I pretty much can attribute to the SNP.
@Blair Paterson
I understand peoples frustration but I still believe there is work to do. There are still some in Scotland that believe uniquely in the world of almost 200 countries that Scots are unable to run their own country and need it administered by WM. The more the exposure of the incompetence of these ‘rulers’ at WM is revealed the better our position.
I don’t want another failed vote, it may be the last and I’m too old to envisage another one in my lifetime. It has to be won this time and if that involves waiting a longer than I want then I just need to suppress my impatience.
@Blair Paterson says: “Once again Mr.,Peffers,defends the SNP position of doing nothing”
I can’t see anything on this two day long thread that bears any resemblance to your posting, could you provide a link?
“The only comfort is that support for keeping this farce union with England “somehow” remains solid, but I get the sense these days that such stubborn support for the union is in spite of the unionists, red or blue tory, not because of it.”
Fixed that for you CJ. You’re welcome but golly gosh, you’re a poisonous wee git aren’t you CJ
@heedtracker
I’m talking about policy not ownership, I don’t really expect the Scottish government to own every fishing boat or even think it would be a good idea if they did.
If you want to return to the currency, etc argument then fair enough but it seems a waste of time. Every country has a currency, Scotland will have a currency, I don’t really care what it is called as long as it works. Go down this route and you are playing into the Brit Nat preferred area and I fear we are heading for another loss, hopes that’s not what you want.
The currency that we will be all using the day after independence is Sterling.
There is absolutely no doubt about that, if there is there shouldn’t be.
We will be using Sterling for a transitional period. My guess would be 5 to 10 years but would be determined unilaterally by our government of the day if pegged to Sterling or agreed with Westminster if a currency union.
The bottom line is we will be using Sterling for a number of years after independence, this is of course my opinion and I’m very willing to hear from others why this would not be the case but please be reasonable and civil.
@Iain mhor
Last reports were that the SNP Ref warchest was over a half million pounds, and frozen for that purpose. Yes, a short shapr Ref campaign, 3 or 4 months tops. The Electoral Commission recommendation is for a minimum 3 month campaign, sounds about right to me.
@Breeks
I respect your viewpoint, even when at times arguing against it. That quote from me “Because by the time we’re independent, the UK will have fully left the EU dragging Scotland with it, whether we want to go or not…” is in answer to Carolyn Leckie wanting to leave such a Ref until AFTER Independence, which will be too late.
My own view is that while I see the attraction of Scotland having a say in the EU, and a strong one too as the EU is a bit biased towards smaller members contrary to the rubbish the Brexiteers say – we get a veto which while we’d never or rarely use it gives us hige, massive, negotiating power – my primary desire is for Independence, and my personal very slight preference is for EFTA + EEA membership.
Within that Scotland can opt in to many EU programs, and it could achieve a higher YES vote, which is prime for me. And when the formal membership Article 49 membership application is being processed, whether or not there is a trasnition so we don’t actually leave the EU, EFTA is a single market option with a transition to the full EU at leisure. Though EFTA don’t get a vote, they do have influence in EU legislation, and Scotland’s membership can strengthen that influence.
headtracker 2.19pm
What I posted was a copy and paste from what Breeks posted earlier 8.35am.
I posted it to prove the sheer hypocrisy of you.
And for the record, I don’t agree with one single word that Breeks posted.
Why didn’t you attack Breeks or call him a “poisonous wee git”.
You have been caught out, hook line and sinker ya roaster.
, hopes that’s not what you want.
Yes I want to lose indyref2:D
Point is, look at how we lost indyref1. And what money Scots would use was probably the only weak point, for many.
It could still be too. Watching it before 2014 was like watching a waiting bear trap, in full view but unavoidable.
There are straight forward solutions but Smith Commision shut a lot of them down, not by chance.
It;s not enough to campaign on currency using fiscal or economic stuff like, its doesnt matter what currency Scotland uses, its only pieces of paper and metal.
Why didn’t you attack Breeks or call him a “poisonous wee git”.
You have been caught out, hook line and sinker ya roaster.
Because you and your creepy chums are my little pets, ghastly yes but pets all the same CJ.
Someone in the vicinity here keeps a pet tarantula. God only knows why. Its gross but so are you CJ.
headtracker,,, made to look like the idiot and hypocrite that he is.
Still waitin on you callin Breeks a “poisonous wee git”.
I just proved a point today. It is not what you post,,it is who posts it that matters in headtracker’s world.
As I have told you.
If you don’t like Scotland, then head south back to your homeland.
Breeks:
headtracker has a message for you…
It will be along any minute now…
OK Breeks,,I’ll tell you what the message was:
headtracker called you a “poisonous wee git”.