Betting on air
We’re not sure we can untangle this.
Perhaps you can help us out.
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RUTH DAVIDSON: What I’m in charge of is the Scottish Conservative offering going into that [2015] election, and I will be bringing forward our ideas, and I pledge today that they will be available ahead of the referendum and they will be in the manifesto.
[…]
GORDON BREWER: Just on that point about who’s the leader of what, you say that your proposals for more devolution – whatever they end up as being – will be written into your manifesto for the 2015 general election.
RD: I’ve said that the proposals that are brought forward will help inform our manifestos, not just for 2015 but for 2016 too.
GB: So if there are more proposals for devolution that you agree with, they will be in your manifesto?
RD: Well, in terms of the general election manifesto, obviously we have to look with other areas of our party, and one of the other big announcements in the speech today was setting up a mechanism which looks at devolution as a UK-wide issue too. Now that’s separate from the proposals that’s going to come forward from this panel.
GB: Sure, but what I’m getting at is, if you have these proposals which you like, that your commission comes up with, and you put them in your manifesto, does that mean it’s British Conservative Party policy?
RD: Well, in terms of what the panel’s coming forward – and I think it’s important that I make a distinction here, because there were two very clear announcements that happened today – one was that we have a mechanism across the UK looking at all of devolution, and that brings in, instead of just having, lurching from commission to commission, Scotland to Westminster, Cardiff Bay and Westminster, Stormont and Westminster, we have a comprehensive look at how devolution is working.
That’s something for us to work out with the Prime Minister, with Andrew RT Davies. The second one is, what IS it that we want for the Scottish Parliament, from the Scottish Conservatives?
GB: Yes, but what I’m asking you –
RD: Sorry, can I finish, because I think this is quite important, Gordon, if I could just explain, if that’s all right – em, is that, y’know, for example, there’s going to be a transfer of power of, setting up a mechanism for income tax, part of income tax is going to be transferred under the Scotland Act to the Scottish Parliament.
Now, this panel will look at, y’know, do we think that the 35 pence, or 35%, of monies raised, do we think that’s about the right level, the mechanism’s going to be brought it, do we want more or less of that? Therefore we bring that forward, that’s the example.
GB: But I come back to my point – when you put these marvellous proposals that you like so much in your manifesto for the general election, does that mean it is the policy of the British Conservative Party?
RD: Well, the Prime Minister absolutely backs what I’m doing just now. So, let’s not prejudge the commission, let’s see what they bring back –
GB: Well let’s absolutely prejudge it, because if you –
RD: Well we haven’t seen what they’ve said yet, they’ve not gone off and done their work. I’ve tasked them to do a job –
GB: Hang on – if you’re going to tell people in Scotland “Look, we’ve changed, I’m doing a U-turn, I was wrong, we’re going to have all these great new ideas for more devolution, so if you vote Tory in 2015 that could happen, if the Conservatives win an election”… but you can’t really say that, can you?
RD: I can say that with the backing of the Prime Minister.
GB: You can give us an assurance that any proposals that you, as the leader of the Scottish Conservative Party, agree to and put in your manifesto, the British Conservative Party will carry them out?
RD: No, what I can say is, as a leader of a party in Scotland, as the leader of the Conservative Party in Scotland, I can put forward the proposals that I want to see as part of the devolved settlement in Scotland. Now, the process that’s ongoing has the backing of the Prime Minister – there’s no ‘blank cheque’ here, but absolutely there will be negotiation that goes on between the party in Scotland and the UK party on this.
GB: So you would hope that come the general election, whatever is in your manifesto will be the policy of the British Conservative Party?
RD: Well, I certainly hope that we’re going to win the general election and we have an opportunity to enact it, Gordon. And thank you for ceding that ground, I appreciate it!
GB: Well, let’s imagine the not-unimaginable, because this is what people will be sitting at home wondering, is “Hang on, if I vote Tory in 2015 – assuming that Scotland’s still part of the UK – if I vote Tory, and the Tories win the election, does that mean that what that Ruth Davidson’s been saying about more devolution will actually happen? Will it be the official policy of the British government, should the Tories win an outright majority?”
And you’re telling me – I’m not quite clear WHAT you’re telling me.
RD: Well, what I’m telling you is, this commission’s going away, it’s going to come back with proposals, we’re going to put them through the policy process that we have in the party, that we’ve always had, and it will inform what goes into our 2015 manifesto.
GB: Y’see, what voters would like you to say is, kind of, “Yes” or “No”.
RD: There are lots of discussions, from all parts of the party, that go into the manifesto.
GB: So it WON’T necessarily be there. All right. I still don’t understand that.
RD: Ha ha ha ha! It’s not that complicated!
GB: So what you’re saying is, if you come up with new proposals for devolution, they might or might not be implemented if the Tories win the next general election?
RD: No, what I’m saying is that those proposals will help inform our manifesto, at [the] 2015 general election.
GB: Um, right.
RD: It’s not that difficult!
—————————————————————————————————–
We make that EIGHT times Brewer asked a simple straight question about whether Davidson’s group’s proposals would be in the UK Conservative Party’s 2015 manifesto, without getting a straight answer. Studio expert David Torrance appeared later in the programme to praise Davidson for “an admirably coherent and well-thought-through contribution to the debate”. We’ll leave you to judge that analysis for yourselves.
But there are some things that we think can safely be said to be true:
1. The Scottish Conservatives will (probably) put forward some sort of proposal for the future of devolution – though it may not in any sense be for “more powers” – but will not be able to say whether that proposal will be included in the UK Conservative manifesto for the 2015 general election.
2. The Scottish Conservatives are in no position to enact any proposals for devolution under ANY circumstances. Even if the skies fell in and pigs flew on motorbikes and they won the Holyrood 2016 election, Holyrood can’t dictate devolution terms to the UK. So it really doesn’t matter two hoots what’s in the Scottish Tory manifesto anyway.
3. Even if they somehow won Holyrood and the UK Tories won Westminster, the UK leader could still tell Davidson where to shove her “ideas”, whether they’d been in the UK manifesto or not. After all, broken manifesto promises won’t be much of a new experience for UK voters.
4. By the time ANYONE’S manifesto appears, the referendum will be over anyway. So all Davidson is actually pledging to offer is some “ideas”, which might not even be promised by the UK Conservatives, let alone delivered.
That’s not even “jam tomorrow”, readers. No matter how many hours of painful, evasive, desperate waffling and nervous fake laughter Ruth Davidson tries to hide it behind, that’s “maybe nothing, maybe never”. To find out, you’re going to have to give up an opportunity denied to the people of Scotland for 300 years, which may never come again. And we thought it was Alex Salmond who was supposed to be the gambler.
I’m not sure I understood any of it… maybe I did and maybe I didn’t.
Re D Torrance, he was all over the tweetosphere in praise of Ms D, indeed he’s been much in evidence on the BBC here in Scotland, Monday morning GMS discussing if smarmy Dave would agree to a debate with AS and then last night’s Newsnight Scotia.
Manufacturing consent indeed.
And on Tory promises this as posted elsewhere
link to u.tv
Tris says:
27 March, 2013 at 4:09 pm
I’m not sure I understood any of it… maybe I did and maybe I didn’t.
Understood what ? did somebody say something
Schrödinger’s devolution pledge
Also looks live Severin across in the Guardian is peddling the line that “more powers are automatic following a no vote” in his article on “hard working MPs”.
link to tinyurl.com
Not many comments, but he is active in replying – some of you may want to go over there and ask him for evidence?
Quite simply, there is nothing to stop the three unionist parties from working together (like they did for Calman) to come up with proposals for more powers, and put forward a bill in the House of Commons to enact those powers in October 2014, in case we say no. The referendum does not prevent them from doing that.
Unless and until they do so, the referendum is simply independence versus the status quo.
We’re going to be looking at several recipes for jam, and marmalades, fish pastes and glues, and if Scotland votes to be better together, I can assure you that all those recipes will definitely be on the menu in the future or, Westminster permitting, Scotland will have the opportunity not to have any of them on the menu at any time. Of course, not all the items on the menu will be available in the restaurant, because of course catering is a complicated business, but all those recipes will be looked at and either not definitely ignored or definitely not ignored by the party in Scotland, and the real leadership will either put them on the British menu or leave them off the menu, because Scots deserve the right to make an informed choice to either accept or choose not to reject the very fair fare on offer. It’s quite simple. really: there may or may not be jam, or some other foodstuff, on offer or not at some point in the future or equivalent time period, and I’m very glad you’ve conceded that there will be a future, which, like a jam jar, could very well contain jam. Or odd screws.
I understood every word. In a nutshell she said “Bullshit, em, is that, y’know, bullshit and ha ha ha ha y’know more bullshit”
Torrance getting exposure because he’s that rare creature— a Tory who has/had a Scottish Nationalist father. Doesn’t stop him from talking merde however.
Afraid it is all a load of Tory guffe and the promise of jam tomorrow. Just think about it, voted YES in 1979, got nothing, voted YES in 1997, got something, vote YES in 2014, get everything. There can be no half measures status quo or independence that is what is on offer. Least we forget there are three union parties promulgating the same tired old message of ‘Stronger Together’.
This message could be individualised with each proclaiming a simple truth; unity in deprivation, unity in austerity and unity in bankruptcy. Vote YES in 2014 for a better Scotland.
She really shouldnae gie interviews oan an empty heid.
I watched it, it was gobbledygook, how Torrence praised her was unbelievable, at least if we had any doubts about him, we have none now!.
I think the poor wee aggressive lassie has taken one too many knocks in the kickboxing world, she needs a rest from politics, I would say permanently as I am a forgiving soul.
Thinking about it, naw, she does us more favours staying exactly where she is!
How many lines in the sand will the tories draw before they finally see sense and let go?
If the top photograph was in a higher definition, you could just about see the strings.
So the new Scottish Tory slogan is; ‘mibbes aye, mibbes naw.’
I know her words are part of the English lexicon, but the order in which they were being deployed made no sense what so ever.
She’s like a wee boy who knows he’s been caught doing something wrong yet still tries to explain his way out of it with incredulous stories.
“Ruthie! Where’s your manifesto homework?”
“Well, we formed a commission to look at the options but before they could report, they were all eaten by tigers…”
“Is that the truth?”
“Well, its part of the process which will go toward explaining what form (if any) the truth will take, if and when it arrives.”
“Sigh.”
“Ha ha ha ha! It’s not that complicated!”
This could have been written to describe the position I’m left in. Apologies again to any who might be challenged by the Dundee patois.
link to youtube.com
I am seriously glad for Wings over Scotland, having the patience to watch and transcribe, this load of jam tomorrow!
@Albert Herring
at 4.30pm
The cat would have made more sense.
Inbhir Anainn,
“There can be no half measures status quo or independence that is what is on offer.”
I think it is a lot worse than that.
In the event of a No vote, any vestage of scottishness will be slowly demolished.
“Separate legal system? Completely unnecessary old boy. And your NHS has to join the 21st C and get with the programme of privatisation. You don’t like PFI deals? Well they’re good for me and Yorkshire has them, so you will have them too. Education, schmeducation. It is far better that public schoolboys like me run the country than oiks like you. What do you need an education for anyway? We were born to run the country, and make a damned good job of it too. Yes, the family made millions in the slave trade and we never lost it. You should thank us for re-introducing it, especially you Scotch. Who would employ you anyway? Best you serve your betters. Since you ask, my shares in ATOS are doing quite nicely, thanks.
Look, it is far better that the nuclear bombs are kept as far away from me as possible. What would happen to the world if I wasn’t here to keep everyone shipshape? You chaps, with your funny accents and your communism are doing yourselves a favour by being a target. No-one would miss you, no, not at all. Less of you means more for us, ha, ha!
Scrounging bastards the lot of you.”
That is sadly less of a caricature than I would like it to be. But vote ‘no’ and it will likely become very real.
…do we think that the 35 pence, or 35%, of monies raised, do we think that’s about the right level, the mechanism’s going to be brought it, do we want more or less of that?
So, it could be fewer ‘powers’ than Calman.
I can say that with the backing of the Prime Minister.
And it’s up to David Cameron anyway.
You could not give Ms.Davidson a red neck with a blowlamp!
Just about sums it up. Imagine the Interview if someone had slipped Ruth a truth drug.
Brewer: Well Ruth what about the infamous line in the sand then?
Davidson: I still believe that.
Brewer: Well, what on earth was your speech all about then?
Davidson: It’s just a sham , we have no intention of devolving more fiscal powers to the Scottish Parliament.
Brewer: Oh i see. Who are “we?”.
Davidson: I should have said David Cameron. Do you think for a minute that I would have influence?
Brewer: Not really no. Why the sham, I just don’t understand?
Davidson: We realise that we can’t win the referendum by just continuing to scaremonger. There are no benefits to Scotland remaining in the Union, so we’ve decided upon taking the deception route. indicate jam tomorrow and deliver bugger all!
Brewer: Do you think it will succeed?
Davidson: Probably not, especially after the Northern Irish boys let the cat out the bag. But we’re desperate!
Brewer: Well , you know we at the BBC will do everthing we can to help.
Davidson: I know Gordon, and thanks.
@ronald alexander mcdonald
🙂
I know its possible to listen and not hear, but Ruthie manages to speak and yet say nothing at all!!! What a lot of absolute waffle!! Fortunately the Scottish people are not stupid enough to fall for anything the Tories say!!
My cat is more articulate too, blurrrrr, blaaaa, goodness me, where was she educated? Her sentences and use of the er, English language,just does not make sense.
Phuh, pah, huh? Her blatant intention to deceive seems to be the only point to it.
Roll on Independence.
“Fortunately the Scottish people are not stupid enough to fall for anything the Tories say!!”
And hopefully they’ll have exactly the same reaction when Labour come out with exactly the same pish.
I take a kind of Popperian approach to these things. If you can’t decipher what she’s saying, ask yourself what it is that she isn’t saying. If the truth had been ‘yes, it will be in the British Tory Manifesto’ then she’d certainly have said so, easy, interview moves on. She didn’t, so it won’t be.
Even if she’d answered yes, it wouldn’t matter. More people think Elvis is still alive than believe what a Tory says.
So, if we vote no, we might get some more powers for the Scottish parliament, though probably not.
Not too convincing!
Best to vote ‘yes’, then we get the lot: no ifs, buts or maybes!
Richard McHarg,
Yes, it is a twisted load of nonsense.
“Best to vote ‘yes’, then we get the lot: no ifs, buts or maybes!”
Yup, that seems straightforward.
🙂
See when a politician says they’ll ‘look at’ something? It means nothing. Davidson used that phrase endlessly as a substitute for a real answer last night. Also any politician who appoints a commission to manage the democratic process in Scotland should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Those days are past. We’ll run our own democracy now thanks very much.
ronald alexander mcdonald you are a genius!
And if that ‘twat’ (and yes he deserves the accolade more than yesterdays Mr Grant) Brewer was half the interviewer he thinks he is he would have crucified her. He didn’t even talk over her as he does with Ms Sturgeon!! And as to the two Tory comedians he then interviewed for comment! Where was the representative of the SG or Yes? Sorry they don’t do balance do they?
The Ghost of Sir Alec Douglas-Home visits the feast.
Here is what will happen
All three Unionist parties, having resoundingly refused to accept devo max or devo plus as a referendum question option will now produce different devo plus/devo max promises.
They will NOT get together and produce a combined proposal.
They will most definitely NOT put a combined devo plus/max offer before Westminster for ratification before the referendum.
What they WILL do, if they win the referendum, is kick it as far into the long grass as they possibly can, probably by proposing a new Constitutional Convention to consider the three sets of promises.
If that ever does come back with a proposal, by then the election system and powers in Holyrood (if it still exists at all) will have already been ‘modernised’ (aka emaciated) to the point where it is genuinely impossible for pro-independence parties to gain power and even if they do a future independence referendum will be illegal.
Anyone contend that summing up?
Good analysis, something else to consider here, while the UK Conservative party may technically win a mandate to make changes to the UK constitution and thus Scottish devolution, their inevitably poor showing in Scotland at the next UK General Election means they desperately lack any moral authority to do so.
A Conservative Government making changes to Scottish devolution on the back of an English majority at a UK general election would be no different than when the Conservative Government tried to dictate the terms of the indyref. Or conversely, when Scottish Labour MPs voted on the marriage equality bill in England and Wales.
Deviation rather than a veering off (still under category people talking bollocks) ……. I’ve just watched the Reporting Scotland E Bradford piece, anyone a health wonk on here? She’s rehashed her January story on Raigmore, follow up cancer treatment, link to bbc.co.uk,
Anyway this time round she is quite openly in cahoots with J Baillie, anyway in her pay off she claimed that Scotland is way down the league table in cancer survival rates, not sure if anyone knows where the best stats are?
@chic
“They will NOT get together and produce a combined proposal.”
An interesting point. They’re not really ‘together’ are they? You’d suppose it would be fairly easy to agree some token extension of Holyrood power and get it as far as a White Paper before the referendum. David Cameron could then make some sort of speech along the lines of ‘I hold in my hand a piece of paper …’. O wait, that’s been done…
Slightly o\t
Nicola Sturgeon putting Jackie Baillie back in her box over the Bedroom Tax
link to bbc.co.uk
If anyone had any doubt that the Labour Party are doing their utmost to keep Scotland under the thumb of Westminster irrespective of the damage it is doing to those most in need then look away now.
I can no longer tell the difference between Labour and the Tories.
Castle Rock – At the opposite end of the scale, a massive hatchet job on Reporting Scotland just now over ‘bedroom tax’ and ‘cancer waiting times’.
Mags Curran having a go at IDS over the tax, Labour reported as being against the tax by asking the SG to pass legislation, no mention of the Labour council’s voting in favour of the tax and the only SG voice was Margaret Burgess saying that Holyrood can’t do anything because it’s a reserved issue and they can’t afford to supplement the tax because it will mean cutting funding to other services.
I won’t even start on the Bradford/Baillie production on Cancer treatments in Scotland, I’d just advise you to watch it when it becomes available on the i-player, especially Bradford’s final comment.
Like I posted on the other thread she has called for nothing and will deliver exactly nothing.
Still all this hoohaa should jolly Labour along with their jam tomorrow bribes, now that the Tories have beat them to a press release. Quick question though? Why on earth would anyone trust promises from parties and a campaign which fought tooth and nail to deny options on devolution whatever on the ballot. I’d have more respect for the opposition had they tried to create a narrative of a more positive future whilst holding their original position. However the politics of fear and bribery does seem more their style.
Real gangsta.
More jam tomorrow rubbish. Basically she said: i have an idea, it’s called more devolution, no details yet, but they will be written down before the referendum and sent to London in a sealed envelope. Then after a NO vote it will be opened up by my boss and he might include my crayon drawn ideas in a manifesto for 2015.
Ifs, buts and kinda-things politics, and she couldn’t even sell it to Brewer LOL!
@Chic
Pretty damn spot on.
@Albatha
Ms Bradford’s disappearance during all those scandals and bad news from the NHS in England was noted.
@chicMcGregor
Indeed, quite like the name Albatha by the way in a Bewitched kind of way.
I’ve had a look at the NCIN Cancer stats and looks like overall Scottish survival rates overall are above the UK average, a host of reasons will contribute no doubt ….. however for female breast cancer survival, what EB was on about, Scotland is better than the UK average.
Fair and balanced reporting, aye right.
@Castle Rock
Just wow! That clip of Nicola Sturgeon skewering Jackie Baillie is phenomenal. What a wumman!
@Castle Rock
Gary Robertson did a good job interviewing Baillie on RS this morning. He repeatedly asked her if, like the SNP have done with theirs, she advised Labour councils in Scotland to also refuse to evict those who did not pay the Bedroom Tax (BT?, oh no that’s already in use somewhere). Instead she kept saying that it is the SNP government’s fault because they are not using their powers to prevent it.
Eventually he asked her directly if she was proposing that the SNP Government put legislation through the SP to make it illegal to evict people in Scotland for non payment of BT.
She said yes.
Only thing is, he didn’t come back at her with something like ‘So does that mean that having very often criticised the SNP Government of seeking confrontation with Westminster in the past, you are now championing that kind of action? ‘
And if she’d said ‘Only, when it is necessary.’
Then come back again with ‘But in this case it isn’t is it? You can achieve the same result by simply instructing Labour councils and without direct Holyrood/Westminster confrontation.’
He had her in check but didn’t go on to mate her.
To be fair at least the Tories are honest about their position on the Bedroom Tax, I’ve no understanding what the Labour position is.
Can’t say I watch alot of Holyrood but I remember back in the day talk of rainbow Parliaments and a change of tone from Westminster but we are essentially a two party state up here now and the animosity between SNP and Labour is horrific even by Westminster standards.
Oh, come on Chick! Are you seriously suggesting that anyone Would ‘mate’ ms bailie???
@Chic McGregor
Heard it too. Not the first time he has been a sharp interviewer, was a good listen.
The wee wummin has had too much exposure & attention already.
Best leave her alone to congratulate herself on how good a job she has done convincing herself to believe in her own shite.
That’s 1 point for the Tories. With only 3,999,999 voters left to convince, 2014 suddenly seems years away.
Boorach says:
“Oh, come on Chick! Are you seriously suggesting that anyone Would ‘mate’ ms bailie???”
This could get a bit agricultural. 🙂
Steady Boorach. 😀
Bedroom Tax cont.
What’s making me so bloody angry about all of this is that the Labour Party wants Scotland to pay for this abhorrent piece of legislation just so that they can continue to say we’re Bitter Together.
Why should the Scottish Parliament pay for Westminster’s foul and unfair rule? Why take £50 million out of other budgets to try and mitigate the problems? Aren’t we paying enough already to Westminster? How many times do we need to be conned before Scotland wakes up?
The Labour Party should be instructing their Councils not to evict anyone who gets into arrears just like the SNP have done rather than arguing that we should be paying double for Westminster’s foul rule.
I really feel sorry for the people who are being caught by this, innocent people who cannot downsize because there is nothing to downsize to, disabled people who will be penalised for having a disability, elderly people being forced out of their homes and communities, parents no longer able to give a room to their visiting children, the list goes on and on.
The Labour Party doesn’t give a shit about this though so long as they can feed at the Westminster trough.
Mate J Bailie?
No when there’s dugs oan the street.
@Boorach
Careful now!
If I read between the lines, right, she’s saying ‘British’ Tories don’t tell her anything and don’t listen when she tries to tell them. Poor Ruth.
I can imagine Cameron’s secretary fielding Ruth’s phone calls.
“Mr. Cameron. There’s a woman on the phone says she’s a Scottish Tory.”
“No such thing. Hang up.”
Factually Incorrect Bradford strikes again,unsubstantiated assertions allowed to be aired as fact,i find myself trying to second guess what the spin is going to be,and laugh out loud when i`m right, Apologies to other Auchmill Road users on the teatime crawl home,they must wonder what the nutter at the side of them finds so funny!
And so repeating myself:
In our local Newsletter, two months ago, the SNP councillor for South Ayrshire wrote a piece alerting the public to the forthcoming bedroom tax.
One of the Labour councillors told us about buying his 17yr old son his first car.
Another Labour councillor was concerned about grass cutting in non-council areas – seems private house builders may layout a nice grassy area in their development but do not commit to future upkeep so the houseowners bear the responsibility.
Our Labour MP was still trying to put a stop to train locomotives engines idling overnight.Been at least a year now.
If SCotland votes NO, then as my dear old Grannie would say, Hell mend ye. Ye were warned.
Jackie Baillie’s leader Johann Lamont can clearly be overheard prompting her (they think its a joke, they think its a joke) says Johann from the wings. The only joke is Labour joined at the hip with the Tories.
I had forgotten about the Calman Commission, and the Scotland Act! To be fair to me, both were a bit of a non-event!
However, at least we can counter the unionists if people are confused with their offers of tomorrow’s jam. That was their chance to do something for Scotland!
@Inbhir Anainn
“Jackie Baillie’s leader Johann Lamont can clearly be overheard prompting her (they think its a joke, they think its a joke) says Johann from the wings.”
If you ever find yourself being prompted by Johann Lamont, then surely it`s time to quit 🙂
how’s about this Ruth
http://philosophy.uchicago.edu/faculty/files/conant/On%20the%20'Austere%20Conception%20of%20Nonsense.pdf
Never mind wee Toothy Ruthie the ex-teatime newsreader and her convoluted tory guff..she and her party of dinosaurs will finally disappear in Scotland at the next election. But what about Jackie Baillie? Words can’t express the total disgust I have for this fat liar. Every time I hear her pompous voice with its phoney tone and vowels, I spit blood. She is the MP for the poorest area outside the East end of Glasgow in Scotland. No jobs; a run down town centre; no investment; every indicator of social decay and despair off the richter scale, but she’s allowed to pontificate and posture on this morning’s radio Scotland about the Bedroom tax…where Gary Robertson let her spout on about the SNP Government, but did not challenge her on Westminster’s role and responsibility for it and the British Labour party’s non-aggression pact against it..then there she was again, ‘astonished (yet again) by the’ figures’..(she should try doing something about her own some time) lined up with another collaborator Eleanor Bradford..with another bad news story about the Scottish NHS and follow-up cancer treatment. Bradford’s snide comment at the end about how Scotland’s rates of survival compare ‘with other countries’ was a new low in totally partisan propaganda. Also, as often has been happening a lot lately..we get a voice over with an image of a grinning SNP politician (this time Alex Neil) with a snidey commentary so that a visceral and instinctive dislike is created even in the disinterested viewer. Oh and just in case that same disinterested but nauseated viewer hasn’t been subliminally sickened enough, we get Margaret Curran lipsynching through Old Labour speak about the Bedroom Tax..so that the numpty kneejerk constituency of old Labour can be conned into thinking its like the poll tax again against the wicked tories. There aint nothing clever or sophisticated about all this but it sickens me to the stomach at the blatant concerted campaign of disinformation that BBC Scotland is now unashamedly waging. Whaurs yer Chris Patten noo? Try complaining to said BBC Scotland..you’ll get an automated one minute call into an empty voice message repository and are encouraged not to leave your details. Add to the blocking of e-mails to BBC commentators’ blogs and the censoring of pro-Yes letters and calls to the Scottish msm and it shapes up as a pretty strong case for an emerging undemocratic state-led operation against freedom of speech. Why oh why won’t Salmond and the SG do something about it?
Cracker Tattie-boggle, though a bit taxing on the grey cells. Whether it is numerology or the unionist promise of something perhaps following a no, everyone knows the smell.
@Lochside – An excellent post, we are living in a Pravda like world, the only difference being that the state broadcaster is not controlled by the state, but by a political party i.e. The Labour Party. In answer to your last question, I wish I knew. It baffles me.
My source in SNP says that they complain to BBC regularly but not in public as that is deemed counter productive and invites ridicule from Daily Mail, Daily Express and all the Unionist columnists etc.
Mind you Nicola Sturgeon fairly put Lamont and Baillie in their place as they had not even signed Labour’s petition to Parliament on the Bedtax.
But BBC made sure they had Torquil Chrichton on hand to put the boot in afterwards. Watch Scottish Politics on Iplayer.
link to bbc.co.uk
I just heard Ed Miliband say, on BBC News, “if I’m prime minister”.
If that isn’t enough to precipitate a Yes vote, I don’t know what is.
@Morag
Yes, I distinctly remember Ian Gray using a similar phrase, “if I were First Minister”. We all know how well that worked out.
Chick McGregor said: “Gary Robertson did a good job interviewing Baillie on RS this morning. He repeatedly asked her if, like the SNP have done with theirs, she advised Labour councils in Scotland to also refuse to evict those who did not pay the Bedroom Tax… Instead she kept saying that it is the SNP government’s fault because they are not using their powers to prevent it.”
Unfortunately, that’s exactly how STV News portrayed it today. They made out that Labour were calling for the SNP to do something about the Bedroom Tax, and the SNP were hemming and hawing over it. I couldn’t believe the complete inversion of the facts that I was witnessing on my TV screen. Haven’t seen anything quite like it since the BBC reporting of Operation Cast Lead.
I’m sure they also said that [i]Scottish[/i] councils will not evict people over Bedroom Tax arrears, rather than saying the truth, which is that it’s so far only SNP councils who definitely won’t evict (Labour ones probably will, in the end, and of course Tory ones won’t think twice about it).
I was kind of stunned by it. I thought STV were better than the BBC, but this was appalling. It was Bernard Ponsonby who was stating the lies as facts too – I had thought he was pretty decent until today.
Did anybody else see this? Did I mishear or misapprehend the straight up lies they were telling, to the obvious benefit of the Labour party?
@Lochside-
Well said.
I started writing a post with very similar sentiments to your own earlier today, then gave up as it was so difficult to find words capable of conveying how angry and disgusted I felt.
Even at almost fifty years of age, I blush very easily, and I felt it happening today when Baillie was heckling Sturgeon, abetted by Lamont. It’s strange in a way, because I should feel no sympathy whatsoever for Baillie or Lamont, but it’s almost impossible not to be embarrassed by their behaviour – it’s like watching footage of someone on the dance-floor whose trousers or skirt is about to fall down. Difference is, these people expect to be taken seriously, and they are – by the BBC, and MSM presstitutes who must make-do with the best they have. And Baillie, Lamont, Davdison, Rennie etc ARE the best they have.
Just after abandoning the intended post, a friend arrived – we had coffee, started chatting about the referendum etc. First time we’ve ever discussed politics. It was a frank, open discussion, we found out a lot about each other’s views, and, happily, we were in almost total agreement. The one conclusion we reached was that the state of affairs we’re now witnessing has arisen because all of us allowed it to happen. The reason we have people like Lamont and Baillie in positions of responsibility – where they can claim to be ‘representing’ any of us – is because we allowed standards to drop low enough for them to enter the political arena in the first place.
This double act between Bradford and Baillie is really getting ridiculous now. BBC Scotland and the Scottish Labour appear to be colluding with each other, and without any attempt to hide it.
Was just watching Scotland Tonight. Did I really hear the Scottish Tory Housing spokesman refer to social housing tenants who are in receipt of housing benefit but who have more than one bedroom as a “small, privileged group”?
@mutley79 – “This double act between Bradford and Baillie is really getting ridiculous now. BBC Scotland and the Scottish Labour appear to be colluding with each other, and without any attempt to hide it.” We are witnessing the subversion of democracy in Scotland.
After reading that transcript, here are some things which we now know to be true:
1. Gordon Brewer didn’t know what Ruth Davidson was talking about.
2. Ruth Davidson didn’t know what Gordon Brewer was asking about.
3. Gordon Brewer didn’t know what Gordon Brewer was asking about.
4. Ruth Davidson didn’t know what Ruth Davidson was talking about.
It really is unbelievable what passes for an interview in this country’s media!
March Against the Bedroom Tax
Saturday 30th March
Meet Glasgow Green at 11am – march to George Square
SSP public meeting at end of Rally – approx 1.30pm
in Committee Room no 9, (free house pub – with disabled access), 18 John St (100 metres from George Sq)
Saturday’s march against the Bedroom Tax promises to be big, judging by the response on the streets and the size of public meetings across the region, including those called by the SSP.
We need a maximum show of strength by the SSP, as the party that has raised this issue for the past year, campaigned in the streets where others failed to show until very recently, and first spearheaded the demand in councils for ‘no evictions’ – through SSP councillor Jim Bollan.
Good decent people are fighting back against this vicious Tory tax, and marching on Saturday, mostly people who’ve never been involved in such movements before. Some rank opportunists are trying to hijack the movement to promote their own names, and the likes of Labour has particular cheek in posing as champions against the Bedroom Tax, especially since they’ve blurted out they will keep it – to use against people who decline an offer of smaller accommodation.
So that makes it all the more important the SSP has a very visible presence on Saturday – as a party with an honest, proud record of fighting every cut and campaigning in a unifying way with working class people to scrap this Tax.
I am appealing to you and every SSP member/supporter to consider the following:
1. Do your very best to be there – meet at an SSP banner at 11am in Glasgow Green.
2. Bring an SSP banner if you have one locally, with poles! Encourage people to march behind SSP banners.
3. Help hand out leaflets in the Green as people arrive, and sell the special new 16-page Bedroom Tax edition of the Voice.
4. Encourage anyone you know or meet at the Demo to attend the SSP meeting at the end of the Rally, roughly 1.30pm. It is in a good quality venue, with a lift for disabled access…the Committee Room no 9 bar in John St, at most 100 metres from George Sq.
As the Tory tax looms, people are looking for ways of fighting back. The SSP is trying to put forward both practical, immediate steps and broader alternatives that would eliminate the excuses for such an appalling attack on the incomes of the poorest households.
Do what you can to help get the message over on Saturday.And please drop me a line to say if you will be there – and whether you can bring a banner,etc.
Yours in struggle, solidarity and socialism
Richie Venton
richieventon@hotmail.com
@Bill C
“We are witnessing the subversion of democracy in Scotland.”
And there doesn`t appear to be anything we can do about it; especially in the case of the BBC in Scotland? They are untouchable, and they know it.
Wow!
What is the point of Jackie Baillie? What Labour are delivering to us is the march of the morons. It is beyond my comprehension how anyone can vote for some of these people. Jackie Baillie is a disgrace to politics. If I had a dug, it could do a better job than her.
Yesitis said:
And there doesn`t appear to be anything we can do about it; especially in the case of the BBC in Scotland? They are untouchable, and they know it.
The problem is that each individual example looks perfectly reasonable, in the context of robust reporting and holding to account and all that. It’s the constant, one-sided barrage of bias that’s so pernicious, and it’s very hard to demonstrate that to a disinterested observer.
@Yesitis-
Untouchable? You’d better adam-and-eve it…
link to newsnetscotland.com
Yesitis,
“And there doesn`t appear to be anything we can do about it…..”
Well, circa £33k says otherwise. We have to make our own media.
On the BBC front, each and every one of us has to point out the bias.
That we can do.
It will at least undermine the Pravda of North Britain, if nothing else.
There is a long way to go before the referendum.
@Jeannie – He also said “people need to be flexible”. So there we have it. “People” are no more than items, products, assets, merchandise, stock, to be moved, juggled, manipulated, threatened and forced into submission. Britain in 2013? Stuff it! The guy at Smith’s speech in Edinburgh today was right, RATBAGS the lot of them.
@Douglas Clark
Baillie is atrocious. She remains largely untouched by any reasonable degree of interrogation. It`s the same with her Labour comrades, they jog along on easy street – no worries, the BBC will back us up.
Oh, I agree about where we are right now; if it wasn`t for WoS…
I suppose we just keep spreading the word where we can: “oh, BBC Scotland are just Labour`s mouthpiece” etc.
@Morag
Agreed. It`s the drip drip drip approach of the BBC – very difficult to address without sounding hysterical.
Is there any truth in the rumour that if your duck house has a spare nesting room then the ducks are going to be hoofed out?
I can’t believe that Johann Lamont would allow this to happen if it were true.
Yesitis said:
Agreed. It`s the drip drip drip approach of the BBC – very difficult to address without sounding hysterical.
It’s possible many of them don’t even realise what they are doing. In their world, the SNP are a ridiculous lunatic fringe party with a delusional agenda, and Labour are the rightful rulers. They really can’t see why their approach shouldn’t reflect that reality, which no doubt all sensible people agree with!
@Bill C-
‘People need to be flexible’
Aye. But it doesn’t apply to him and his ilk. This is the guy who made a total arse of his ‘leadership’ of the Tories:
link to youtube.com
Ratbag? Aye, and a shaven bawbag into the bargain – this ball-less scrotum is making decisions which affect our lives?
And that’s not the worst of it – if we don’t get shot of these ****s, he’ll be a fixture for as long as he lives, cropping-up on committees, consulted about this, that or whatever else, all part of the fandabydozy Christmas Club which IS life for those and such-as-those.
Let’s call this what it is – Class War.
Michty, crivvens, help ma boab, we’re in for an ‘interesting’ summer, eh?
The guy who called Iain Duncan Smith a “ratbag” is named as Willie Black. Apparently he booked himself into the George Hotel in Edinburgh last night to make sure he would have a ringside seat to get his point across to the man from Westminster. Willie you are a legend!
” In their world, the SNP are a ridiculous lunatic fringe party with a delusional agenda, and Labour are the rightful rulers. ”
They might think that, but the fact the SNP are polling 47% and rising, while Labour is on 30% should give them pause for thought.
Just saying stuff like:
“BBC Scotland, pfft!”
or
“BBC Scotland are shite.”
is perhaps enough to undermine their joke impartiality. The BBC is an arm of the Westminster government. We pay the licence fee as a propoganda premium for Unionists. How is that accounted for in the Better Together’s books?
I should like to know how Iain Davidson managed to get Isobel Fraser shuffled off Newsnicht. Correct me if I am wrong but Iain Davidson appears to have had his way. How does that work?
@Morag
I have thought for a while that the Labour Party in Scotland, particularly Lamont, Sarwar, Bailie etc have no self-awareness over their own behaviour, and how they are being perceived by many people. I think since May 2011 they have genuinely lost the place, and are now driven almost exclusively by hatred of Salmond and the SNP. I can see almost no policy differences between the Tories and Scottish Labour. They do not know what they stand for anymore, and only know what they are against, which is independence. Their self-entitlement means that they have no inkling as to how they are coming across to the electorate in general. Every week at FMQs Lamont’s anger tells of someone who cannot come to terms with the fact that she and Scottish Labour are not in office, and have been rejected by the electorate.
Though I suspect the BBC see everything in terms of the UK, and from a London-centric point of view. So in that sense the SNP and Plaid Cymru are lunatic fringe parties. It’s just they happen to be “fringe” parties that are “fringe” to the UK because they belong only to certain countries within the UK.
To be honest, I suspect the BBC, and UKs, inability to recognise this will not stand them in particularly good stead for the referendum.
Muttley, that is very true. You’d hope that journalists and broadcasters would have a better perspective on reality, and even take into account those polling figures Cath mentions, but that is apparently not the case.
Cath, you make excellent points. I think the other point is that opinion polls, while they may not be coming in with a majority for independence, are coming in with a very high SNP vote. So all this stuff we get about “I’d vote for independence except for my visceral hatred of Alex Salmond and the SNP” cannot reflect a significant proportion of public opinion and is mostly likely to be trolling.
@ianbrotherhood – No argument from me Ian, people are not commodities to be shuffled around like pawns in a game of chess. However, although I am a socialist, I recognise that the YES campaign is a growing broad church, let’s get independence and then discuss the politics of left v right.
They keep going on about the SNP’s “iron discipline”, like Alex Salmond was some sort of portly middle-aged Madam Whiplash. But it’s entirely self-policing, and absolutely natural. “Eyes on the prize” isn’t a difficult concept when it’s as valuable a prize as this, you’ve wanted it for so long and worked for it for so long, and this could be your one realistic chance at it.
muttley79,
I dunno. Perhaps the Labour Party has become complacent in getting enormous pay cheques for spouting rubbish. Perhaps by being completely atrocious they are proving that they, at least, are too poor, too stupid and too thick to run a country? I am, as they say, of the left. Frankly all I see on the Labour front bench at Holyrood is incompetence, a murder of crows, to give it it’s collective name. There is nothing to respect there. They caw like crows, they think like craws and they preen like crows.
It is an apology for a socialist movement.
@Bill C-
Understood.
Please forgive me sounding-off earlier. Can’t help it sometimes.
‘Class War’ is such a burdensome slogan, it conjures all the usual ‘Wolfie Smith’ stereotypes etc, but I can’t find any word-pairing which better encapsulates, for me, what this is all about.
It’s just become so blatant, so unashamed – that’s what gets me. We have a UK ‘government’ with, what, twenty-odd millionaires in ‘the Cabinet’? And they wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for collaboration with a bunch of insipid nonentities who no-one knows, even when they’re ‘in power’?
It’s beyond surreal – it’s just sick.
You’re right – let’s get the referendum done and dusted.
But I’m sure you’ll understand my position – whichever way it goes, we’re in for big changes, after which there will no place in ‘public life’ (in Scotland) for Baillie and her cronies.
No way.
@muttly79
I have occasionally thought the same as you about labour in Scotland’s self awareness. Then I think surely not, they cant be that thick. As time goes on their decent into political madness makes it more possible.
I wonder if after FMQs do they pat each other on the back with comments like “WE stuck it to that Salmond the day eh!” Can they not perceive how they appear outside their wee bubble? They are assisted with this delusion by the BBC/MSM who give them an easy time of it. Are they really that deluded?
I suppose time will tell.
@ianbrotherhood
Ian I don’t know how old you are but your comments fair take me back to the days of the “Blessed Margaret”
@The Man in the Jar
Can they not perceive how they appear outside their wee bubble? They are assisted with this delusion by the BBC/MSM who give them an easy time of it. Are they really that deluded?
No, I don’t think they can perceive how they appear outside their bubble. The most ironic thing is that the MSM keep them protected as much as possible, and I think this is actually a hindrance in terms of their self awareness. The media in Scotland will in general support them so it is only really at elections that they are shown the electorate’s view of their performance and behaviour.
@ianbrotherhood – Stirred up old memories there Ian, I was nicknamed “Wolfie” by some right wing teaching colleagues in the Horseshoe Bar (Glasgow) way back in the late seventies early eighties. I suppose it was partly because I liked to wear a combat jacket and argued for socialist policies. I was a socialist member of the SNP then and remain committed to both struggles today. I, like I suspect you, look forward to a socially just and independent Scotland.
P.S. nothing to forgive, nothing wrong in remembering your class and you nationality.
In the meantime Scotland marches on
link to realbusiness.co.uk
@muttley
@cath
@Morag
It is like living in a movie with a crap plot that you would not believe in 100 years. I predict either RD. or JLs head will explode live on FMQs (I wish) We could have a wee side bet 😉
@Bill C-
Don’t know if you have any reunions scheduled for the next few years, but they could be tasty – ‘he who laughs last’ etc, especially if you turn up in the original combat jacket.
Cheers mister!
PS TMITJ – I’m fifty this year. (Go on, tell me ye canny believe it…that’s down to my youthful enthusiasm…and Lambrini)
@Muttley79
It may be a hindrance to their self-awareness but it is a blessing for the Yes campaign. The more deluded they become, the more shambolic, the more they screech in anger. The more voters will see them for what they are and say “No F*****g Way”
Thinking about FMQs tomorrow. What is JL going to entertain us with this week? I think they have blown it with the bedroom tax. To many opportunities for AS to get a hit in. I think they will go with the NHS apparently JB has been on the radio this week?
Or are they that stupid?
@ianb
@Bill C
I am 60 in July. I know, I can’t believe it either!
I have never been that far to the left my socialist credentials include.
Working for The Peoples Republic of Strathclyde Region for 20 years.
Marching against the closure of the Caterpillar (Gone and forgotten)
And helping a friend sell “The Socialist Worker” at Motherwell cross.
Can I get an invite to the party?
Don’t know about you but I have been daring to fantasise about another party to take place in about 18 months time. Is that a good sign?
@Stu
Sorry, I got home too late tonight to read all the comments and the time it is now after working it’s hard to keep up with the post you wrote. Would it be possible for you to copy these videos and put them in beside your texts. Don’t know if anyone else is like me but I’m usually totally fucked when I get home from work. Watching a video capture is much easier than reading a transcript.
I’m really sorry if I’m sounding like a whining troll but I’m quite busy at the moment but reading all this stuff when I get home from work can be quite difficult.
Yeah, I know it’s late but I’m gonna suffer in the morning
Richie: the video is always linked. If there isn’t something obvious in the text (and usually even if there is), try clicking the image.
Sorry, didn’t mean to post the whole video onto the page.
Rev Fraser eh?
Someone’s influencing things eh?
More double talk from Vince Cable on GMS,
The Scottish Government cannot make projections based on the future of Oil and Gas
Followed by “the oil reserves are not running out”
not surprisingly not picked up on by the useless Gary Robertson
@Westie7
And no mention of the SNP basing their cost projections on the investment commitments of the industry, allowing VC to dismiss their future costings as pie in the sky, unlike the always on the money OBR. And yet G Robertson even introduced the BP story as being a possible ‘oil boom’. Aaaaaaarrrgh.
And that bloody awful woman Kaye ‘do we really need ANOTHER homecoming event in 2014’, what?
We all know that the reporting and interviewing on Newsnicht is biased bullshit. But, I don’t think that Newsnicht is the problem as viewers watch this on a voluntary basis, it’s probably very limited on audience figures and, those that do watch have enought political nous to see through the unionist propaganda.
The real problem, as Westie7 notes, is incompetents like Robertson on GMS, and the 6 minutes or so of unionist soundbites on Reporting Scotland at 6:30pm (you know, the bit before ‘a cat was stuck up a chimney in Cumnock’).
It is these two areas of reporting, aimed at ‘captive’ audiences that inflict the most damage on the independence debate. In virtually all discussions I’ve had with unionists, the comeback has always been ‘”but I heard on the BBC’. When I ask which programme, it’s always, repeat always, RS at 6:30. Never Newsnight, never the Sunday Politics programme, always the 6:30 ‘slot’.
I’ve made at least eight formal complaints to the BBC about this slot and have yet to receive an answer to my posed questions (for interest, answers I have received have directed me to Brian Taylor’s blog!).
So, do we have any suggestions on how the YES campaign can influence these particular ‘bulletins’, or do I need to go and look for someone who can jam the BBC’s signal for about 5 minutes or so every night and for about an hour or two in the morning?
best wishes to all.
What worries me a bit about the debate on Scottish politics including independence is how it is filtering through to many ordinary, casually interested observers. People will openly say things like they hate Alex Salmond but something I infer from their comments is that they don’t want to be run by Scots; cultural cringe? avos? the lure of ambiguity? or simply the ‘authority’ of a posh English accent – whatever the reason, the crapness of the debate may just reinforce the idea that we are crap.
Example: elderly friend of my parents said he hated doing business with Scots and a country run by them would be a disaster. I’m not paranoid enough to believe this is being manufactured by the opposition parties at Hollyrood but I’m stumped as to how to battle this self loathing mentality.
Meanwhile the SNP have just announced the signing up of the 25,000th member! Must be doing somethnig right.
@dmw42
A question to Patten etc about whether he thinks someone like J Boothman with his Labour links should be in charge of Rep Scot and Newsnicht at this time, (well at any time, but you get my point). And was it, retrospectively, okay for him to be in charge of the Parliamentary Unit at Holyrood when his partner was a serving Labour minister.
I can’t think of an equivalent example in London town. It wouldn’t be tolerated. And those that argue well Scotland it’s a small place, blah, blah, bollocks.
@crisiscult
Putting myself through the hell of listening to Call Kaye before heading out, the tone is appalling, snide, sneering ……’oh my we’re getting the world sheep trial championships for the first time, snigger, snigger’ …….and Anna Burnside …..’the dear Great Leader’ line.
@Albalha
was just listening to Kaye myself and had to switch it off, as I usually do after a few minutes – this time I went maybe 30 minutes in before feeling sick. Some illustrations of my point by Kaye and the selected callers who tried their best to project their embarrassment at the cynical ploy of Salmond to promote Scotland for ‘their own political ends’ (quote from one caller).
I heard some of a programme Kaye did on the ‘celebrations’ of the start of WW1. She tried her best to argue for that one.
Call Kaye with the self loathing AnnaBurnside is so sad. Scotland is not just too poor.too stupid etc but also too accepting of thosebwhomwould insult our good endeavours to improve our economy and tourism is part of that. Callers to these programmes are filtered so why no equality in point of view?
A consortium of oil companies is to invest more than $500m (£330m) in an appraisal drilling programme which could lead to further development of a giant North Sea field.The BP-led consortium said drilling had already started on the first of five wells planned over the next two years at Clair, west of Shetland.However some idiot from UK government Ed Davy says all this development could only happen with the strength of the UK. I don’t how poor wee Norway managed to set up their oil sector without outside help. But then that’s a well run country!Spokesman then announced new training facility in Newcastle, South Shields by election pending, but the first was set up by MAERSK a Danish company. Another poor wee country that dominates shipping.
One unforgettable line from the ‘adams’ show was the diplomacy of the naysayer who referred to the undecided as ‘feeble minded‘
Classic BBC this morning: Vince Cable states to Gary Robertson that only a fool would predict oil prices and supplies. Robertson then says that there are two types of predictions: one from the SG (as if the investment by oil companies in itself wasn’t a prediction) and one from the likes of the OBR. Cable says the SG predictions are optimistic but those of an ‘independent’ body like the OBR are less optimistic (heavy implication that we should trust ‘independent’ bodies).
Robertson then asks Cable what is the purpose of his visit up here? Cable states first of all it’s to say that oil isn’t declining. Robertson fails to pick up on the blatant contradiction.
Then we get snide remarks from Kaye Adams about Lulu fronting the Homecoming.
That, folks – with 33k to back up an honourable exception – is journalism in modern Scotland.
Every innovative idea by the S.G is promoted as a negative I despair What on earth do these people Try nothing do nothing
I feel a wee poem coming on
“One unforgettable line from the ‘adams’ show was the diplomacy of the naysayer who referred to the undecided as ‘feeble minded‘”
Yes, that probably wasn’t the caller’s finest moment.
Also listened to a bit of Call Kaye. She had a caller on saying while he was a proud Scotsman he no longer wears his kilt on cruises because he’s so disgusted at the SNP’s negativity.
Eh?
I’ve always maintained that this is the default intellectual setting of the British Establishment at all levels for at least the last century; find one hundred excuses not to do something with vision and imagination before finding one to do it.
I look forward with ever increasing enthusiasm to witnessing the UK consigned to its utterly deserved place in the dustbin of history. I believe that before the middle of the century, the USA and possibly France among others will follow the same path as smaller, de-centralised states become the norm.
Interesting read in relation to the latter here.
link to leap2020.eu
The caller calling the undecided feeble minded on Calling Kaye is the kettle calling the kettle black as his sour feeble minded support of Unionism was like a call to arms of the imperialistic WW1 celebrants.Calling Kaye is cringe called large.
Is it Call Kaye or Listen to Kaye? She constantly talks over and/or cuts off callers and contributers when these are trying to make perfectly reasonable points.
The preamble to any Scottish political topic is invariably laced with snide remarks about Alex Salmond, the Scottish Government or Independence.
The sadly few occasions when another presenter’s sat in for her have been like a breath of fresh air – well moderated, open discussions which are not simply a platform for Kaye to spout her own political prejudices.
Perhaps BBC Scotland could do us all a favour and Cull Kaye. Virtually anyone else would be preferable.
Calling Kaye is cauld kale. (please excuse i am testing how to use the internet..a silver surfer)
@The Man in the Jar – Ah another old Strathclyder, those were the days, the dinnae rock the boat socialism of Charlie Gray and his chocolate factory. I too have a feeling that we will be partying sometime after 18th September next year. I think all the regular and genuine supporters of self determination on here should all meet up and party ’til dawn. What a night that will be.
@Bill C
I have a bottle of 12yr Old McCallan just for the occasion Bill. 🙂
I have a bottle of “Independence” whisky I won in a raffle some time in the 1990s. And I don’t even like whisky!
@Bill C
Aye a right good wings party. Suggested venue, the fields below Stirling castle, as it would be best outdoors with a huge bonfire. Also the vote is only a week after the anniversary of the battle of Stirling brig. We could carry Rev. Stu shoulder high over that bridge. A fitting tribute when you think about it.
Pa Broon
Also listened to a bit of Call Kaye. She had a caller on saying while he was a proud Scotsman he no longer wears his kilt on cruises because he’s so disgusted at the SNP’s negativity.
I know what he means, Pa.
When I’m on my travels around the world, I no longer wear my Union Jack bowler hat for the same reason.
I used to get harrassed all the time by swivel eyed Nat nutters accusing me of all manner of things.
Now I just wear it around the house.
Regarding the party. Even if only 1% of the readership could make it, it would still be big numbers!
Morag I’m with you when it comes to the water of life. Much more traditional to drink Claret anyway!
@Seasick Dave
Lol 🙂
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
28 March, 2013 at 7:52 am
Richie: the video is always linked. If there isn’t something obvious in the text (and usually even if there is), try clicking the image.
Sorry, head full of fluff last night.
@The Man in the Jar says:
@Macart
@Morag
I’m with you guys. I also have a couple bottles of Malt, but hey ho, name your poison. Roll on the weekend after the 18th Sept. After waiting 300+ years it has to be big.
I’ve just been reading Hansard on a HoL debate on the referendum where Foulkes and Wallace agree that Cameron should not have a face-to-face with Alex Salmond.
Following on, Forsyth, for his part stated “My Lords, will my noble and learned friend acknowledge that the Prime Minister is not a London-based politician? He is Prime Minister of the whole of the United Kingdom. Will he not agree that the referendum on independence for Scotland is clearly a matter for Scotland? However, if we were to move to devo-max or some form of federalism, that would be a matter for the whole of the United Kingdom, which would need to be settled by a referendum that involved everyone in the United Kingdom.”
And in response, Wallace replied “I certainly agree with my noble friend, and I think I made it clear that the Prime Minister believes in the integrity of the United Kingdom. I believe it was others who suggested that he was a London-based politician. I also hear what he says about so-called devo-max, which is a brand without a product at the moment. I also recognise that that has implications for the other parts of the United Kingdom and that, were we to go down such a road, it would be very important to secure buy-in from those other parts of the United Kingdom.”
So there you have it boys and girls: no matter what Ruthie, or Lamont, Rennie or anyone else in Bitter Together promise for tomorrow’s jam, the HoL note that there is no substance to any such proposals and that, as and when (inidicitive as after a NO vote) there are such proposals, it will be for the people of rUK to determine whether we get more powers or not.
As I heard a young voter say last night, a YES vote is a vote for a solution to our problems. A no vote simply adds to our problems.
Best wishes to all.
Chic McGregor says:
The French use(d) Collabo for their Quislings during WW II