Another blackout
We’re starting to think that we might need to see a medical professional, readers. Things keep happening that we have no recollection of whatsoever. First there was this (still-unsolved) mystery yesterday, and now there’s this:
Wait, what?
Gail Macgregor is a Conservative councillor in Dumfries and Galloway. We were rather startled last night when she claimed that the Scottish Government had apparently rejected an offer of “devo max” from David Cameron prior to the signing of the Edinburgh Agreement.
We pursued the matter for a few hours, but could elicit no clarification from Cllr Macgregor about when and where this offer was made, what the actual terms of the elusive and ill-defined “devo max” had been, why the offer was no longer on the table and why the Tories now felt unable to commit to any specific new powers in the event of a No vote.
We feel sure, though, that such a dramatic event in the constitutional debate must have been extensively covered in the press and we simply must have been out that day or something. If anyone can bring us up to speed, we’d be most grateful.
I read it. Published in the edition of The Daily Unionist Deception, on 1st of April last year.
How come if you make anything that remotely sounds like a threat via Twitter then you can be pursued for it ( no it hasnt happened to or by me!) yet its fine for Unionists to state absolute lies and its not open to question.
i dare say if you raised it to Tory HQ they would dismiss it as “just banter”. Then again, who the feck follows a Tory Councillor and would a Tory Councillor actually have any idea what David Cameron offered in any discussion with wee Eck, i think not.
Nice how she called you “too stupid” in the conversation there.
Anyone care to dig up a link to the news when Cameron pulled the Devo Max option? Might as well smack her in the face with it.
More blatant lies from Bitterthegither! What is more worrying is that they are almost NEVER ! taken to task on any of these barefaced falsehoods by the MSM! Shameful! The Dunfermline by election was a good case in point …The Labour campaign was a series of utter ,downright lies and distortions and they even claimed authorship/ownership of successful SNP policy implementations and made utterly fictional promises to implement policies which are NOWHERE to be seen on ANY Slab / New Tory/Labour manifestos/policy docs!!
Keep up the good work -very good peice above!!
“Mr Cameron has announced that the British government and Westminster Parliament are willing to give Mr Salmond the referendum on Scotland’s future that he says he wants—as long as it is a proper, straight up-and-down vote on whether to stay in the United Kingdom or leave, and is held sooner rather than later.”
The Economist 9th January 2012
http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2012/01/independence-debate-scotland
It looks like members of all the BT parties do not have a grip on reality or are knowingly lying to all and sundry without a care for the repercussions. Its good to know that guff such as this is being recorded for posterity.
Seems that mendacity is the default position for Unionist politicians.
THE BIG LIE!
Aye. I saw that. I assumed it was a symptom of sudden sobriety after the holidays.
Her, not me.
A blether together airhead, dizzy in the oxygen of duplicity.
As this lady pointed out of herself “I am Rarely wrong”
Do these people graduate in blatant lies and deception? Which Uni offers these courses?
Do Scots want such ill-informed representatives?
Or is this a symptom of Unionist terror brought on by looking at their future?
Gail, Think you should have a wee lie down hen, in a darkened room, and don’t forget to take the medication it might help you!
YOU CAN ALWAYS TRUST A TORY!
@ Rev – It should be an interesting revelation when Cllr MacGregor writes her article for Wings. I assume your invitation was an open one?
The possibility exists that she pays so little attention to what goes on around her that she actually believes the tripe she tweeted (one could replace ‘ee’ with ‘a’).
A Tory isn’t a human being anyway, so perhaps she wasn’t paying attention to what the humans were doing. More likely she’s illinformed and just spouts any old codswallop that springs to mind.
Henceforth to be referred to as: FALLACIOUS FLOOZIE
What everyone should do now is politely email Councillor Macgregor and ask her for a source where it is stated that David Cameron offered Alex Salmond Devo Max, and it’s probably worth copying-in Mundell too.
Gail.Macgregor@dumgal.gov.uk
david@davidmundell.com
Contrasts nicely with the other great “devo myth” the MSM are so fond of, that Alex Salmond really wanted devo-max not indepenence at all, but Cameron outsmarted him and forced the Yes/No vote. If we had a Yes ballot paper for every time I’ve read that one, independence would already be won.
TenaciousTory…can almost picture the poor lass raising her jolly hockey stick in the air and shouting “Ra Ra Ra Ra!” at every council expense form filling event.
Mind you, according to LinkedIn, she might have a horsewhip handy so be careful what you say!
The use of the surname Sturgeon continues the disrespectful attitude we have come to despair from anyone on the Unionist side, none of them seem to have any manners!
I just asked her why she chose to lie about that. Why mince words?
@Dcanmore
Is her email address realy @dum gal 😆
Stranger still….
from the Dumfries and Galloway Conservitive and Unionist associations pages, only one click away from Gail’s “profile” in big shouty letters
“Monday, 9 July, 2012
Salmond is roadblock to single referendum question”
Devo max or whatever, was indeed offered (sort of).
Alas, the tories and their Lib-Lab puppets turned it down!
SLAB Are planning to bypass the Scottish parliament and allow local councils to divi up the block grants directly. Gail will be able to account for that money with her wild imagination and total recall. There’s a lot worse than her out there, now that is worrying. AYE BITTER THE GITHER. I’m sure the BBC &MSM will be looking into it.
@DCanmore
Just sent this to both Gail and David and Tory HQ…
Hi Gail
After your enlightening tweet that “Sturgeon et al” had rejected the option of Devo-Max from David Cameron. I cant tell you how happy I was to see this confirmation.
Could you please pass me the direct reference so that I can use this important piece of information in Referendum arguments knowing its fully justified and I can’t be accused of making up invalid claims.
I do hope you are not suggesting that this might have been a fib!
Stranger still…. from the Dumfries and Galloway Conservitive and Unionist associations pages, only one click away from Gail’s “profile” in big shouty letters
“Monday, 9 July, 2012
Salmond is roadblock to single referendum question ”
http://www.dg-conservatives.org.uk/news
OT: Some fun with quoting out of context:
“Lying is probably one of the most common wrong acts that we carry out” says the BBC on their “Ethics Guide”. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/lying/lying_1.shtml)
I have just emailed Ms. Macgregor but won’t hold my breath for a reply.
Getting server problems, (503) hence double post , also can’t send deletion request, sorry
“It should be an interesting revelation when Cllr MacGregor writes her article for Wings. I assume your invitation was an open one?”
Of course. Standing hopefully by the inbox.
RevStu, I think you’ll find she is correct. [Repeat ad nauseum, sans evidence]
Two simple explanations. One, there’s no getting away from the fact that many of our opponents are very stupid indeed, and effortlessly imbibe contradictory propositions without a hint of self-awareness.
Two, those of our opponents with more cunning than those in category one can make statements like the above secure in the knowledge that the MSM will help to cloud the issue and/or ignore any contradictions in the BT position. In that way ‘new’ orthodoxies can be presented by BT/MSM on an almost weekly basis, the hope being that the Scottish people are too daft to see through these constantly changing positions.
I think in the context of the conversation she was meaning that Devo Max had been offered as an option on the ballot paper, not as a policy of the WM government.
Still a load of balls though.
We’ll need to take our socks off to count the number of useful idiots that will pop up, as if by magic.
Why is a Tory councillor saying ‘more’s the pity’ if an offer of Devo-max was rejected? Aren’t the Tories opposed to Devo-max? Shouldn’t we be asking why Ms McGregor opposes her party’s policy?
Bunter:
“It looks like members of all the BT parties do not have a grip on reality or are knowingly lying to all and sundry without a care for the repercussions.”
BT has pressed the panic button. They have, finally, realized how important the devo-max supporters (that they disenfranchised so quickly) are going to be to the referendum result come September. Hence the frantic attempts to re-write history. Desperate stuff.
I saw a few people trying this one on the Better Together pages yesterday.
Unbelievable, given the near endless media coverage last year of how desperate Salmond was for a devo-max option, but how it wouldn’t be countenanced because it would be giving him what he wanted! And how he would have his nose rubbed in the straight yes/no one vote he was terrified of, because he knew he’d lose. And how it was a WIN for Cameron when he was forced to back down from that longed for option that would have offered him a face saving result he could have used to deny it was a defeat.
I guess Better Together have now woken up to reality belatedly?
Do all Conservatives simply not tell the truth?
Stranger still…. from the Dumfries and Galloway Conservitive and Unionist associations pages, only one click away from Gail’s “profile” in big shouty letters
“Monday, 9 July, 2012
Salmond is roadblock to single referendum question ”
http://www.dg-conservatives.org.uk/news
Hmm, no actual story when you click on it though (unlike the other links), has there been a recent deletion?
@Tamson
I wondered the same and then I remembered Ruth Davidsons infamous “Line in the Sand” Gandalf style statement. We all know what happened to that proposal when the tide of harsh reality came in.
Jeez, what’s next, Scotland is actually Independent, but we were all sleeping at the same time when it happened.
Great to see the Duncan and Gail double act forming over on Twitter. ‘Any lie you can tell. I can tell better, I can lie longer and louder than you…’
Yeah, Gail.
“I think in the context of the conversation she was meaning that Devo Max had been offered as an option on the ballot paper, not as a policy of the WM government.”
Nope:
https://twitter.com/TenaciousTory/statuses/420519485205135360
@Richard Lucas
Labour & Tory double act surely not; that can’t happen can it ?
Why is a Tory councillor saying ‘more’s the pity’ if an offer of Devo-max was rejected?
I wonder… could it be that she is in fact full of shite? Nahhh…
I think it links to the other created story that Cameron thrashed Salmond in the agreement by getting devolution dropped. The line now is that AS surrendered DevoMax to pursue a selfish independence agenda (that only he wanted).
Utter nonsense of course but the better together mob actually believe their own re-writing of history. We have seen many examples of this and I’m sure we have many more to come.
O/T –
Regarding FM needing info on personal security.
Would it not be more fitting for Prof Curtice to get bodygaurds etc, as he appears to be ‘the only show in town’ regarding Academic Pollsters & TV analysis ??
Oh she’s great isn’t she, a lot of clarification going on there.
“I know Tory/Lab/Lib supporters who are YES I know SNP supporters who are NO Issue transcends parties”
Brilliant, Tory councillor confirms view it’s not all about the SNP.
She also knows many people who don’t vote that do vote, in the same sentence!
“I think in the context of the conversation she was meaning that Devo Max had been offered as an option on the ballot paper, not as a policy of the WM government.”
Don’t think so.
By being open to (but not campaigning for) the option of Devo Max as a second question the YES side were really setting a cunning trap for the NO side. Took a while for the trap to spring, but now it has.
So they’re rewriting history again. Goes along the same lines as ‘sumthin’ fer nuthin’ speech never happened and Mr Moore won the first debate against Nicola Sturgeon.
Who knew?
We need the truth team on this. 😀
The only surprise that I can extract from the above is that so many of your readers appear genuinely shocked at this latest example of Tory duplicity. It is what they do- it is in IT parlance their default position – and we have surely seen countless examples as year after year, following a delay of thirty years, the Official record is eventually revealed, confirming all our worst fears. They lie to you and it was much, much, easier to do this before it was possible to scan previously published material. Only this week we saw yet another example of this when it was revealed that Arthur Scargill was honest and accurate in his information about proposed pit closures and the Rt Hon Margaret Thatcher and Sir Ian MacGregor were lying through their teeth to the great British public. Strange how little coverage this was given by our press and broadcast media?
The Rev will not receive any source clarification from the Tory councillor. The lie is in the record.
I recall Alex Neil being interviewed on BBC TV and him stating that if the Unionists want DevoMax on the ballot paper they should submit their proposal. The interview will be in the BBC archives. But then BBC archiving seems to be somewhat haphazard going by their dialogue with NewsnetScotland over the Creighton business.
The new “1984” narrative is Salmond refused the Scottish public the 3rd Question option, so BitterTogether have a legitimate right to raise this as the real NO option.
Watch this play out as we progress to the referendum , this is where it is going.
A similar thing happened this morning on GAS where a unionist politician came out with a bare – faced lie and without any correction from the host. You know what though, I can’t even remember what it was in reference to because unlike these that’s I have a real job and my brain is too frazzled right now to remember. Or care.
“Nope:
https://twitter.com/TenaciousTory/statuses/420519485205135360 ”
Wow, I stand corrected. An even bigger load of balls, then.
O/T, but then again given the MSM guff this morning…
There are 4 million registered voters in Scotland and roughly 130,000 people visit this site on a monthly basis, which is about 3% of the electorate. Assuming an even distribution across the country, this means that there are around 2,000 people from my constituency (Glasgow Kelvin) who access WoS (provided of course that the Glasgow City Council figure of 65,000 electors is correct).
Since the New Year I’ve begun to get involved with my local Yes campaign, and while there is a decent core of active members, numbers are nowhere near the volume of people who (statistically at least) are accessing this site and are therefore, you would presume, interested in a Yes vote this September.
Success in the referendum depends on bringing the 30% of undecided voters across to Yes. Given the bias in our national media convincing voters is going to involve sharing information with friends / colleagues, getting in front of people at street stalls or on their doorsteps, or by delivering the positive YES message into their homes via campaign materials. Digital media covers the first of these but falls short on the second two (although it does of course provide us with a wonderful source of reference material to support conversations with undecided voters).
If only 10% of the Glasgow Kelvin WoS readers were prepared to give up a Saturday or Sunday morning every month it would be possible to deliver one piece of campaign literature monthly to each household in the constituency, and hold weekly street stalls at areas with high foot-fall.
I don’t want anyone to take offence at the above, and I know that many people on this site have done far more than me over a number of years, however we’ve only got one crack at this, so I figured it was worth trying to get a few more people out on the streets.
One final point, a few months ago I would have bricked myself at the thought of discussing politics with a stranger, but you know what, it’s really not that bad, and as I said, we only have one chance. Miss it and I honestly believe it will be gone forever.
Cochrane in the Telegraph back in March:
“Now is not the time to throw bones in Wee Eck’s direction. David Cameron spent a year making sure that the Devo Max option wasn’t on the referendum ballot paper; the Unionists shouldn’t make him a gift of it now.”
Surely it won’t be possible for the unionists to blame the YES side for the omission of the DevoMax question.
Hope its o.k to post this link here. See 1:56 onwards.
The unionists need to make out Alex Salmond as the villain of the referendum panto. You know, instead of those who were complicit in bringing the UK economy to its knees and the other lot who have doubled the country’s debt in just three years. It’s all Alex Salmond’s fault the Scotch Mugabe (insert dictator here). But like all lies they come back to haunt them, that’s the beauty of the long game, fear fizzles out and the liars are exposed.
This devo max stuff is really starting to annoy me. The only people who can deliver devo max are those at Westminster. If they believe that devo max is what we really want, then they should give it to us now. That would be giving the people what they want. Then we can talk about independence.
This is not about Cameron out-smarting Alex Salmond or about Cameron taking a gamble on a no vote. This is not a game. It is simply about the will of the people of Scotland. They need to explain why, if they really want to give us more powers, and they know we want them, they haven’t given them already.
We are not stupid.
Interesting, Mocha. Because Mad-eye Cochers in the Torygraph today…
Could it be that if someone offered them DevoMax now Nats would bite their hand off and we’d hear no more about independence?
Wonder when this supposed “top secret offer of devo-max” to Sturgeon was supposed to have happened?
This is disappointing. Gail is my local councillor and has been fairly helpful on a couple of local issues (I have my reasons for avoiding the SNP rep for this area). Nice lady if you can get her away from her Tory groupthink. She is toeing the party line, but also remember she is in the last Tory frontier of Scotland represented by none other than David Mundell MP (or Munnell as locals tend to call him). They do tend to be a bit smug hereabouts. Oh well, that will make their comeuppance all the sweeter on 18th September 🙂
Apologies, meant to link that piece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10554694/Devo-Max-suddenly-looks-more-appealing-to-the-Nats.html
@Kalmar
You can’t hide anything once it was on the web…
http://archive.is/FGcPc
A nice wee comment from Ruthie…
Worth remembering that even in the unlikely event of the MAJORITY of UK MPs voting to hand over DevoMax, it can be repealled very easily.
And the ‘jewel in the crown’ of North Sea revenue is and always will be ‘ex-regio’ while we remain within the the UK.
Theory: Preliminary groundwork for a Faux pas so history can be rewritten as “SNP rejected DevoMax” before they present it?
If so would add weight to recent speculations of some re a neo-DevoMax move.
Cath,
Yes, caught that earlier, it must be a real pain for journalists that pretty much everything they have written over the last few years is instantly available to everyone for review and comparison against their current stuff !!
Glassgirl, that clarity Cameron speak,s of is no more of a opaque clarity,in the view,s of BT,er,s, deef ,dumb, but they can see through opaque Glass. lol
Independence basically is devo-max, but with oil revenues and without Trident. And with Scotland a sovereign nation and a Scottish passport.
I did support devo-max originally but it would be unthinkable to go back there.
I notice her tweet above includes the infamous Mulder1981 , a prolific unionist tweep known as Alistair Plank from Dunblane.
A mediocrity lying for the cause. I am sure he hopes to be rewarded well for her lack of integrity. Where do they find these people?
I also sent Gail an e mail and asked for evidence that Devo Max was offered to the people of Scotland via The First Minister Mr Alex Salmond ! So don’t worry I’m sure I’ll get a reply soon !
Cochers is a different kettle of madness though. He is still sore that the Devolution Bill went through. The thought of further devolution makes his knees swell and his eyes to swivel
There’s absolutely no reason to believe we will ever be handed DevoMax on a plate from people who up to now have begrudged even giving us the keys to the stationery cupboard.
Devo Max Schevo Schmax
A lie a day keeps the Yes vote at bay.
Suggested New Year resolution for keen BTers?
Definitions of Entropy:
1)A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
2)A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
3)The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
4)Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society
1) Describes the bubble the Unionists live in, and how they want us to see Scotland, and hope we never notice how other countries operate and succeed.
2) Describes the deliberate distorted delivery of ‘news’ from the newspapers and BBC.
3) The Labour Party from its former glory to the do-nothing-that-might-interrupt our control and salary and expenses troughing.
4) Westminster.
I suspect this is the reason for the delay in the official NO position. I don’t think they intend to offer anything other than status quo, in fact probably can’t offer anything else without some serious upset. That being the case, cue spread of misinformation over the FM scuppering devo whatever offer. Or perhaps simply Ms Macgregor actually believes this nonsense.
Whatever, I won’t be surprised to find that there will be no offers of anything to hand and it will be spun that somehow its the SGs fault. I’m peachy with a status quo statement as NOs declared default position (that was and should still be their original choice). Were I an undecided who had been following events over the past two years, I would feel seriously put out at any attempt to lay the absence of any devo+ option from the ballot at the door of the SG. This would have implied some willingness on the part of Westminster government to embrace such a notion which is entirely not the case.
Let’s leave history just the way it is for once. Westminster insisted on not only no further powers (remember Ruth’s line in the sand?), but the removal of a second question from the ballot.
Seriously, what is wrong with unionists??? Does Gail McGregor know that she is lying or is she just badly up to speed on what really happened??
Day after day, we see unionists make completely false statements, and then having the stupidity to then argue with people who point out the REAL facts.
For the benefit of Gail and her ilk, it went like this, unionists including David Cameron, resolutely refused to even contemplate having a second question on the ballot paper, as they foolishly thought that this was something Salmond wanted, so in their own stupid unionist way they said they wouldn’t allow a second question, as Salmond could use it as a ‘get out’ in case he lost the vote for total independence.
I remember at the time, the Scottish Government decided upon a single question, but then said in the Scottish parliament and elsewhere, that if other parties would like to include a question on devo max, then if they (the unionists) drafted it, the Scottish Government would include it. The unionists unanimously rejected the notion of such a devo max question.
Devo max on the ballot paper was rejected by the unionists, not by the Scottish Government or Alex Salmond.
This s all very well documented.
However, I ask again, what on earth is going on in the heads of unionists?? Are they relying on the lying nonsense coming from the Labour party for information??
Gail McGregor is in an important position, which carries a degree of responsibility to the public, and she really needs to check facts rather than silly press releases from Labour or better together.
It has now got to the point that unionists have started believing their own lies. Truly bizarre.
o/t gale warning
think curtice and a few weeks back and he was in the studio giving it the bullshit again about polls if you remember his hair was all over the place remember he was in the studio ?
last night i was in my mates house and he had the news on and who was on oh yes old jonny boy this time outside was his hair all over the place this time nope not one hair it was blowing a gale for christs sake it didnt even move nothing zilch f^&*&$l what the hell was wrong look im going to crack up
i will bet you any amount of money the presenter was tied down anchored down with stage weights elephants in each f&*%£$g pocket not curtice hes standing there as if hes in the middle of a f£$%^&g heatwave
yesterday my computer was playing up guess what today im going to smash it the f$%kup if anybody says are you sure it was curtice so before anybody post are you really going to do that to me IT WAS HIM
i feel dizzy now
shit that worked
i was just having a moan please dont answer anybody if yous dont answer i will buy yous stuff i didnt think this heap of crap would work
You begin to understand why unionists live in this parallel universe when they fill the future with scares and scenarios which are most unlikely, while at the same time rewriting the past as soon as it happens to include events that never happened.
One morning they will wake up and wonder “Who and where the fuck am I?”
I’ve just been looking at what this woman has been saying today, and in my opinion, she may be deliberately (or perhaps unknowingly) misleading people regarding devo max. It is a classic spin doctor strategy – when there are clear facts on a matter, you try to spread uncertainty on a wide basis across various outlets. This then confuses journalists who are reporting and feel duty bound to report ‘there is uncertainty as to what was offered’, as opposed to stating ‘Devo max was rejected by the unionists and David Cameron’. Pure spin – or lying as I call it.
I fully expect the unionists will try to push some kind of devo max nonsense prior to the vote, but as we all know they did exactly that for the 1979 devolution referendum, with a live broadcast appeal from Alec Douglas-Home courtesy of the BBC propagandists, promising ‘jam tomorrow’ if people vote no. Of course as most can still remember, the vote was won for devolution in 1979, but Labour introduced an amendment into Westminster, which meant that dead people would count as ‘NO’ votes, thereby gerrymandering the result.
Of course instead of ‘jam tomorrow’ ,Scots got 18 years of Thatcherite wanton destruction of Scottish industry, whilst Scottish oil revenues were squandered on things in the South East of England, like the M25 and the channel tunnel.
If Westminster wanted to have devo max in the even of a NO vote, they could introduce and pass the necessary legislation in Westminster right now, so people would be certain it would happen. Of course they do not do so, because they know it to be a lie. Just as they and their stooge Alex Douglas-Home lied in 1979, so the unionists will lie again in 2014 – this time assisted by Labour.
I think what you can take from this is that NO is seriously worried.
It makes you wonder what NO’s internal polling is telling them – and you can be pretty sure that in their latest public poll the “straight” YES/NO question was asked and yet they are not releasing those numbers.
Since Autumn 2012 all the momentum has been away from NO – and there’s still 8+ months to go.
Project Fear has been overplayed, discredited, and is now a busted flush. People are now laughing at their increasingly desperate scare stories instead of hiding behind the settee as they were supposed to.
Seeing the writing on the wall, NO wants to replace “Status Quo” with promises of some yet-to-be-agreed “Devo Max” position supported by all of the Unionist parties. Lab/Lib will easily find common ground since Willie Rennie will bend over backwards to be noticed, and the Tories will just lie about supporting it anyway – so it’s eminently possible for a united front to be presented.
NO hopes and expects that if Labour lead on a Devo Max promise rather than the Tories, then the Scottish people will vote to be fooled yet again.
Just my reading of the situation.
The “Devo Max off the ballot paper” reporting was the first time I vaguely took an interest in the indy debate, as it was reported on the national news, on Radio 4.
I specifically remember the commentary at the time giving the impression that it was a bit of brinksmanship by Cameron, i.e. a devo max option would be the natural “middle way” winner if it was on the ballot, and would mean giving up more control to the Scottish parliament.
Not desirable to the government, so the stakes were pushed higher by insisting on a “scarier” independence question alone, with a short timescale to boot.
The boot is on the other foot now…
Harry Shanks,
I agree, the unionists, certainly since the end of last year, have become increasingly concerned. Even down in London, there has been overt criticism of the better together campaign.
There was the ousting of Michael Moore, followed by his successor (‘a bruiser’) making a public clown of himself and better together in his televised debate with Nicola Sturgeon.
I do think the unionists are becoming very afraid, as they see the NO vote tumble. ‘Project fear’, has become ‘project feart’
At the time of the Edinburgh Agreement, the MSM were reporting that Cameron’s red light for the referendum was that there could not be a second question on more powers. This was widely reported at the time. Not even our wonderful MSM can wiggle out of this one. Unionist politicians were delighted at the time: Salmond was banking on an “insurance card” we were told because he was certain to get beat on a straight Yes/No question. Of course many on this website could see that Salmond was insuring that it was the Unionists/MSM who were the ones who were seen to be the ones to publicly reject the chance of a second question.
Now we see the same Unionists/MSM try and pretend that it was the SG who were the ones that rejected the offer of a more powers option. The massive problem for them is that of course it is a shamefaced lie, pure and simple. This is entirely predictable dismal stuff for the Tory councillor, and her fellow Scottish unionists, and MSM helpers. It really is 1984 stuff.
Last year, the Unionists were certainly claiming victory for keeping Devo-Max off the ballot paper. There was a claim going round there would be greater powers – it turned out this was a reference to the Scotland Act 2012.
She’s still lying, though.
It would seem bizarre that Westminster would even consider offering NO = Devo Max unless it was looking very likely that we are heading for a YES victory (unless of course they are confident they can wriggle out of it after the result).
Perhaps they know even with a Devo Max temporary reprieve that Indy is the inevitable destination and they aim to keep the union as long as possible while the oil is flowing?
“The unionists need to make out Alex Salmond as the villain of the referendum panto”
Oh no they don’t!
This Devo max nonsense always reminds me of naive childhood chats
Me : Mum
Mum : Yes?
Me : Can I get that new football strip now?
Mum : I’ll get you two next week if you behave!
I’m sure you all know how that worked out…
… someone’s pants are on fire
BT – liars all.
Hysterical. What a loser. An affront to Democracy on the gravy train.
The laughing stock of Dumfries and Galloway
The silly cow stuck in manure, up to the udders.
Rabbie will be turning in his grave.
Every word Unionists Politician, utter is a lie.
The reason you know that Gail MacGregor is being economical with the actualité is that Devo-max (whatever that really means) was never offered as it will never be offered.
The model all devolution proposals use is standard and unvarying. Scotland will be funded to the Barnett formula or whatever lesser funding will replace it and it will not be allowed to raise revenue from any other source to fund public services other than by increasing general taxation above the UK norm. All the variation in devolution proposals so far is what taxes Scotland can put up above the UK norm in order to offset cuts from Westminster in the Barnett formula grant.
Of course this will be obscured by Scotland obtaining parts of the Barnett block grant from from devolved or assigned taxes but that is all just smoke and mirrors as it is designed to be.
Devo-max, Devo-plus, Ming’s report, Johann’s abortive draft Labour report all use that model and any future devolution proposal will use it too because any inkling that Scotland was being favoured with extra public funding it or that it has unfair access to funding streams from oil or renewables would cause uproar in Westminster.
I’ve no idea what Labour’s new devolution report will contain but a very little educated guesswork will establish that it will be the same block grant + taxes above the UK norm if Scotland wants to maintain its public services model and that much of the budget responsibility will be stripped from the parliament with funding handed straight to Labour councils as the Scottish Parliament has proved unstable as a Labour fiefdom.
Ok , so I emailed Gail Macgregor and asked her for some evidence of her claim that Devo Max was offered to either Nicola Sturgeon or Our First Minister Alex Salmond either before , during or after the talks about “The Edinburgh Agreement ” ( where we signed up to be courteous to one another ) Hmmm ! No reply . So now I have emailed Mr David Mundell and asked if he can hurry up a reply for me PLEASE ! Considering it’s all LIES , LIES and more dammed LIES !
Hopefully there will always be at least one Tory in Scotland – in a big jar in the Hunterian Museum.
Going back to when the MSM was lying about Alex Salmong being blindsided by those clever Westminster unionists who ‘forced him to concede the Devo-Max option’, the Guardian’s Better No yahoo “Scottish representative” Severn Carrell was pushing this lie in article after article. I questioned him about this as often as I could, asking him for evidence of his claims. He kept repeating his oft-used line about ‘sources’ and the like.
Finally, he got so exasperated with my repeat requests for actual evidence that he said he would definitely present it to me in a forthcoming article… And yes, you’ve guessed it, the evidence never did appear in any forthcoming articles!
Shortly after my exchanges with Carrell, I was put on the Guardian’s “comments will be pre-moderated” naughty-step. Coincidence? Ah hae ma doots!
Dal Riata
It is rarely productive to have a go at a journalist if he has been determined to publish a lie.
Severin Carrell writes absolute rubbish about the wider constitutional issue on a continuous basis but he’s writing it for predominately English audience which doesn’t know he is writing rubbish (and probably don’t much care anyway).
This does us no harm as the metropolitan media class probably swallow his guff as he is a Scottish correspondent (obviously conceived in Belgium) and they are well astray of what is actually happening.
Better Together are not.
They are in disarray and it is fairly obvious hat even some of the most biddable members among are becoming squeamish about the shite they are expected to provide.
@Ian Brotherhood
Please make it Michael Forsyth, (he’s earned it surely)
@Dal Riata –
Good on ye.
It seems to be that’s the way to do it – keep asking them, over and over, pinning them down, again and again and again.
What you asked him for, and his reaction to it, is a perfect microcosm of the whole ‘debate’ they claim to want so badly – the truth is that they don’t have a positive case, and they know it.
The corollary is that well-kent fence-sitters (the prominent ones know who they are every bit as well as the rest of us) are now experiencing a wobble so serious that they will soon – like it or nay – have to make their minds up which side they’d prefer their arse to hit.
As things stand? Post-Yes, some of the most experienced MSM operators in our ‘wee’ country will have big question-marks dogging them for years. Postponing the ‘epiphany’ won’t make it any less painful in the long-run.
@gordoz –
Strange…
Just one of those things, I suppose, but when you mentioned Michael Forsyth, it was like, mentally, you know, plooop! There he was, all of a sudden, in a massive empty Douwe Egberts jar, hair all asunder in the formaldehyde, wide eyes staring up, out at the clock behind the viewer’s heid.
He slotted right in there. The perfect candidate.
Mind you, if we could squeeze George Roberston in there as well (preferably head-down) that would make it quite an attraction, eh? I can’t for the life of me remember what it is that links them, but they’re interesting enough in their own right, and both deserve preservation as symbols of what Western Capitalism deemed to be ‘important people’.
Ian – Sure we could find a jar big enough in an old chemist’s; fitting tribute to 2 of Scotlands finest Brits to keep them wha was it Britter Together ?
Interesting that the Tory DumGal site presents an article on their new Scottish Tory Party logo–a double-cross. Just about sums them up really.
Oops, belated correction in “Theory: Preliminary groundwork for a Faux pas so history can be rewritten as “SNP rejected DevoMax” before they present it?”
Should, of course, have been ‘volte-face’ rather than ‘faux pas’.
Emailed Gail.
Waiting
Waiting
Nothing.