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Wings Over Scotland

And finally… #20

Posted on February 15, 2013 by

We haven’t had anything from the Scottish Political Archive for a wee while, so in the light of today’s doom-mongering about the dangers of aggressive separatists, we thought we’d share a few other warnings from through the ages. Click to size up.


And just to bring us right up to date, there’s a bonus leaflet below.


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    21 to “And finally… #20”

    1. Swello says:

      O/T – if anyone wants to see a “subtle” take on independence – see the new Yes Prime Minister episode on Gold tonight (it’s on now – catch it on the +1 channel later) – will get a few people annoyed I think 🙂

    2. Dave Smith says:

      ‘Danger of loss of power in Westminster’.
      They make that sound like a bad thing… 

    3. Keef says:

      I like the last observation by the Scottish Daily Mail – “Independence is imminent”. 🙂

    4. Ghengis says:

      Hmm. OT Each time I reply to UK_Together on Twitter within a few minutes receive a reply in the form of some random phishing attempt. Is it only me?

    5. The Man in the Jar says:

      Oh No. Please don’t tell me. Beaten by the Lib. Dems.
      Not my bit of S. Lanarkshire but this is what I have to live with day to day!
      I’m all depressed now. I’m away to my bed.
      Wee grumpy face thing.

    6. Richie says:

      “Separation Shuts Shipyards”
      That’s a bit of a tongue-twister.
      I can’t imagine Ian Davidson or Johann Lamont being able to say it without fucking it up.

    7. Cuphook says:

      I notice in the first leaflet that the Labour party were more honest then and described themselves as ‘The Labour Party in Scotland’.
      I Googled the image and came up with this. The second image down makes me wonder when the SNP stood candidates in Berlin East constituency.
      Maybe it’s because I’ve been watching The Lives of Others, again, (I’ve been told that it’s just a movie) but the bit where, after the wall comes down, Dreyman meets (ex) Minister Hempf always puts me in mind of Labour politicians. Dreyman says, ‘to think that people like you once ruled a country…’ and then walks away. I like to imagine that that is what we’re is doing to the Labour Party (in Scotland).   

    8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      The Lives Of Others is a brilliant film.

    9. ianbrotherhood says:

      This, to mark an important 10th anniversary. Sadly, there’s no mention of the Glasgow protest -does anyone know if the Scottish contribution to the global protests was properly documented? If so, I can’t find it. And that is sad…someone must have footage which shows how huge the Scottish effort was.

    10. Tamson says:

      @The Man in the Jar:
      I wouldn’t be too downhearted, Man. The STV system used for local government is very poor for by-elections.
      If you have a 4-member ward where, say, there are 2 Labour, 1 SNP and 1 Lib Dem councillor, and either the Lib Dem or the SNP councillor dies, it’s very hard for them to win the seat back because Labour already have an in-built advantage in the constituency.

    11. TYRAN says:

      I see the first image says Labour Party then the others say Scottish Labour. So when did this occur? Looks like no one listened to their message, then had to bolt Scottish on the front to try and trap into this. [edit: just read Cuphook]

    12. BM says:

      It irks me that before elections, the chorus is “a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence”, but after the SNP has won, the tune changes to “people vote for the SNP for lots of reasons, it’s not an endorsement of independence”.

    13. Braco says:

      Ian, I was there marching in London that day and it was much like that little film. Hijacked by the usual suspects of the great and the good ‘anti establishment’ (ha ha) and used as an event to vent frustrations at the system, letting off pressure in order to carry on as usual. Everybody there felt so much better about it afterward but the war went ahead and all the carnage and inhumanities happened as planned. The only marches that change anything need to be large AND a threat. That was just large and designed mainly to make powerless people feel personally distanced from the outrageous decision by THEIR government to bomb civilians. Once they had expressed publicly their ‘not in my name’ ness they all went home and that was that. No Change. What we are doing with independence though will quietly shake the foundations! Vote YES

    14. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Braco –
      Aye, you’re right. They were going in anyway, didn’t matter how many of us marched. Still, it’s good to remember that day, how it felt being part of something, even if it was futile. It’s been well and truly memoryholed by MSM, but thank god they haven’t yet worked out a way to erase what’s in our heids.

    15. scottish_skier says:

      What is a very important factor in the equation is that this no longer works:

      i.e. a vote for the SNP is a vote for the Tories (due to erosion of the Labour share under FPTP). Was quite a powerful tool to subvert democracy. 

      Of course the Scottish parliament neatly killed that as you could vote SNP there with no fear of inadvertently helping the Tories due to the PR-type nature of it.

      What is really fascinating though, is that all the evidence suggests this Labour strategy no longer works for Westminster too; Scots Westminster SNP VI has been running just a few points below that for Holyrood VI since the landslide of 2011.

      Why? Well voting Labour in 2010 did no good; the Tories returned anyway. Pre-devolution you had no choice but to keep trying. However, now Scots have a choice; they don’t need to vote Labour for Westminster to try and avoid a Tory government any more. There’s another way out of that predicament….

    16. CameronB says:

      @ Braco
      I posted much the same on CIF yesterday. The Gruniard was trying to suggest the march had effected an enormous change in social attitude. I suggested that as the perpetrators of the war crimes remain at liberty, no real change had occurred. It was heartening to see so many people oppose aggressive war, but that probably didn’t cut much ice in Iraq. Let’s not forget Afghanistan, which is still going on. As with the victims of the Iraq invasion, the UN is uncertain as to the number of Afghan civilians that have been killed by western forces and drones. They seam to have a pretty clear calculation of how many civilians have died in Syria though. I wonder why that is?

      I suggested that there has only been one political movement in the last decade, that is attempting to challenge the status quo and bring real benefit to the people it represents. That is the Scottish independence movement.

      Vote Yes in 2014.

    17. Braco says:

      That event and later events like that just put the tin lid on my cynicism (and I am sure a whole load of other peoples too) which in the end helps nothing but the establishment they are supposedly opposing. I am slowly regaining some of my idealism as the Independence movement grows. It’s also reassuring as most if not all of those ‘progressives’ speaking in that wee film would be totally against our movement. Which just proves again to me that we are on the true radical road to the future. weesmily

    18. Braco says:

      Absolutely! I also admire you and your cohorts dedication in reading, posting and even ‘debating’ with the stuff that comes out that paper’s articles on Scots politics. Your better men and women than me Gunga Din. weesmilywink

    19. muttley79 says:

      I was at the Glasgow anti-Iraq war protest as well.  I remember the news helicopters buzzing in the sky so there must be some footage of it around.   

    20. Cuphook says:

      A couple of videos here. Unfortunately, the links below them are broken, but they might still give you something to go on. You can see the helicopter mentioned at about 2.20 – I don’t know if it is a news channel though.
      There’s a nice photo from the Lerwick march half way down this page

    21. Appleby says:

      They sure do love that word “separation”. No idea why they’ve clung to it like bug-eyed obsessives.

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