An unexpected development
Posted on
November 27, 2023 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Apparently I’ve removed myself as the head of me for misbehaviour.
These are zany times in the independence movement, readers. Hold on.
Because we too wonder where she’ll end up:
But we’re pretty sure it won’t be as President of the EU.
Chas says on 1 December 2023 at 10:09 am:
“I note the comments from some of the previously named Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade, following the passing of Alistair Darling. It seems I have previously been too polite. Going forward this group shall now be called THE SCUM. Like him or not Mr Darling was a man of integrity who fought for his beliefs.”
I note you went on to appeal to Stuart to take action against some folk making comments you disapprove of. I also note you failed to include yourself in that, with your constant childish playground bully name-calling and referring to folk as “SCUM”.
You are also a liar, as well as a coward and online bully. You state that Darling was “a man of integrity”. No he wasn’t. As pointed out in previous WOS articles the guy was a proven liar. When the SNP (under Salmond) released their 700-page White Paper on Scottish independence, Darling trashed it just 2 hours after its release. And as proven on WOS at the time Darling was giving TV, radio and newspaper interviews throughout that first 2-hours. So where/when did Darling get to read all that 700 pages of info? And that’s just one example of the many lies that ne was responsible for.
If anything Stuart should be taking action against you for your declaration to refer to certain WOS contributors as “SCUM” from now on. If i was on social media i’d be bringing it to his attention. And you talk of folk acting like “online hardmen”? You don’t do irony either, do you?
Understanding history from ancient guff to the history being made today is important as all history is intertwined.
Our past makes our present and our present makes our future,
In this present world of wokeness it seems to be the wish in present times to rewrite a new unconnected surreal history to our past,
I agree that history records are dusty ancient guff, as ancient as the treaty of union guff and as ancient as the ancient guff and pomp of a wooden gold carriage parading and conveying the new monarch to be in the new milinium
Or the ancient guff traditions of hierarcy in war of generals and majors and the pawn soldiers as cannon fodder,
Or the blackrod chapping at the door of the parliament of England still carried on into the rebranded name of the parliament of GB, along with the ancient guff of lords in parliament in England,
David Cameron being one of the recently named new lords following this ancient guff.
But making an attempt to wipe out the Country of Scotlands guff ancient whilst maintaining Englands chosen ancient guff history is selecting history to suite one’s agenda and undoubtably how Colonialism maintains its hold in modern times,
Restricting information access to a country like Scotland that is supposed to be in a union with the country of England is evidence of that colonialism still at work.
From the past history of the parliament in England, Scotland belatedly learned of the MacCrone report,
It is in this same fashion of following ancient guff tradition that the parliament in England also stymes the history of how England, created their Queen of England to a unpresidented position of queen of Scotland by a simple extension to Scotland stating they witnessed the Scottish Oath being taken in England,
In those ancient guff days no one in Scotland saw this happen miles away in another kingdom country and witnessed in that other country across and outside its own borders,, to this day “we” simply trust without questioning the narrative and presumption that that parliament in England will always is open and honest with Scots in Scotland.
The MacCrone report alone is a excellent example,
But sharing national debt with the Bank of England, not the Bank of Great Britain is another one of those trust issues that Scotland never questions.
The bank of England was never a public bank in any manner, and would be unable to hold Sovereignty finances over Scotlands finances unless it had become the Bank of the newly created bank of Great Britain from the period of 1707.
The other narrative of a over trusting Scotland towards the parliament in England is why only the Scottish parliament was dissolved from the treaty of union in 1707, and not the parliament of England on the same date, day and year,
Leaving only the parliament of England to go forward into the parliament of Great Britain.
Scotland is naive in its trust, to the point of being child like amongst adults,
But that trust towards those adults that act like a child rapist towards your country, people and families should be broken,
And a thorough investigation into their and our own back ground must take place now, to set the records straight and prevent further abuse of Scots people.
Most Traditions are often ancient guff
Here’s some of John Main’s recent ideological pals supporting Isntreal.
I could go on.
link to newshub.co.nz
link to ynetnews.com
link to bloomberg.com
Just to make sure the right folk see this, from previous page:
Chas says on 1 December 2023 at 10:09 am:
“I note the comments from some of the previously named Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade, following the passing of Alistair Darling. It seems I have previously been too polite. Going forward this group shall now be called THE SCUM. Like him or not Mr Darling was a man of integrity who fought for his beliefs.”
I note you went on to appeal to Stuart to take action against some folk making comments you disapprove of. I also note you failed to include yourself in that, with your constant childish playground bully name-calling and referring to folk as “SCUM”.
You are also a liar, as well as a coward and online bully. You state that Darling was “a man of integrity”. No he wasn’t. As pointed out in previous WOS articles the guy was a proven liar. When the SNP (under Salmond) released their 700-page White Paper on Scottish independence, Darling trashed it just 2 hours after its release. And as proven on WOS at the time Darling was giving TV, radio and newspaper interviews throughout that first 2-hours. So where/when did Darling get to read all that 700 pages of info? And that’s just one example of the many lies that ne was responsible for.
If anything Stuart should be taking action against you for your declaration to refer to certain WOS contributors as “SCUM” from now on. If i was on social media i’d be bringing it to his attention. And you talk of folk acting like “online hardmen”? You don’t do irony either, do you?
And just to make sure, again, before i go for lunch:
Chas says on 1 December 2023 at 10:09 am:
“I note the comments from some of the previously named Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade, following the passing of Alistair Darling. It seems I have previously been too polite. Going forward this group shall now be called THE SCUM. Like him or not Mr Darling was a man of integrity who fought for his beliefs.”
I note you went on to appeal to Stuart to take action against some folk making comments you disapprove of. I also note you failed to include yourself in that, with your constant childish playground bully name-calling and referring to folk as “SCUM”.
You are also a liar, as well as a coward and online bully. You state that Darling was “a man of integrity”. No he wasn’t. As pointed out in previous WOS articles the guy was a proven liar. When the SNP (under Salmond) released their 700-page White Paper on Scottish independence, Darling trashed it just 2 hours after its release. And as proven on WOS at the time Darling was giving TV, radio and newspaper interviews throughout that first 2-hours. So where/when did Darling get to read all that 700 pages of info? And that’s just one example of the many lies that ne was responsible for.
If anything Stuart should be taking action against you for your declaration to refer to certain WOS contributors as “SCUM” from now on. If i was on social media i’d be bringing it to his attention. And you talk of folk acting like “online hardmen”? You don’t do irony either, do you?
The social threat to Scotland is colonialism, a taking over of the Country of Scotland without a dissolved Scottish parliament in the treaty of union,
Without sharing a union Crown Monarchy between the two Countries, prior to England announcing by letter,
Oh by the way we made our queen of England, your queen of of Scotland from our England,
but that monarchy imposed and governs the justice system in Scotland without warrant,
It has enabled one Country, through lies and deceit to rape and pillage taxes and resources, sea and land of its bordering Country,
So without the legal foundation of a shared monarchy ( which ended) or evidential old Scottish parliament able to represent its constituents of Scotland,
There is no foundation to the treaty of parliamentary union as a international treaty. With only one parliament left in it, the parliament of England,
England and its parliament and monarchy have no connection to the kingdom of Scotland, as England politicians made the queen of England the queen of Scotland by extension,
Scotland never did take her ( Anne) as their monarch and there is no record in Scotland that records the Coronation of queen Anne of Englands coronation event ever taken place in Scotland, and no person in Scotland up to the time of her death ever witnessed her taken the Scottish Oath in Scotland,
So other than a letter telling Scotland from England we made you a new union monarch for Scotland.
It raises other issues,
Could Queen Anne of England, France and Ireland use the royal regalia, septre and crown of Scotland to give royal assent to the Scottish side of the treaty of union?
If only England made her queen of Scotland from England before a Crown union and prior to the treaty of union.
And still never putting a vote to the Sovereign Scots over monarchy and parliament to join the treaty of union, under the law passed in Scotland of the ” Claim of Right”
History is interlinked and etymology of that history is very important,
This old guff may disprove the ancient guff believe in Scotland that a union of parliaments ever proceeded any further than the dissolved parliament of Scotland from the point of England,
and that the monarchy of Crowns was not a union of crowns over Both kingdoms of Scotland and England,
Until England claimed by letter to Scotland, claiming England had made it a union of Crowns from the country and point of England.
Everything that Scots are asked to believe about a union of any kind wether monarchy or parliamentary union has been through and informed to them via England.
A Country that had spent centuries trying to capture Scotland,
Perhaps it only became successful by lying and cheating to Scots that everything was legal and above board because it had all taken place in England by England,
Stoker.
Re Chas, Pointed out very eloquently.
Mac @10:48
The roof I was worrying about yesterday collapsed overnight making it that wee bit harder to find a new bright side this morning*- especially after hearing Lord Darling’s family say he didn’t even want to lead better together but had felt he had to.. I mean, WTAF, at least the brexiteers and common cold warriors believed they were doing right, right??
Sometimes I wonder how different might the world have been (its last decade in particular) had the likes of Galloway, Brown and Darling done more to empower us Scots than the forces we deplore but I guess it’s a controversial take, the milk is spilled anyway & the roof is but one more thing for the magic genie to fix once it gets here.
The pope’s discourse gave some hope for about 5 mins, but looking increasingly like he may have been blanked to avoid spoiling the climate change piss up in Dubai
link to twitter.com
Seems I was previously too polite too..
Darling was lying scum.
He was proven to be lying scum.
There was no Devo max.
No near federalism.
No oil running out.
& Scotland could use the £1.00.
Pensioners would still get their pensions.
Patient transplants would still go ahead (remember that scummy comment?)
There was no better deal for a No vote.
We were out of the EU.
He was a LIAR to his country. A ("Tractor" - Ed).
Fuck Darling.
As for England being colonised – don’t make us laugh.
No one is stripping their resources (what are they btw?)
No one is denying them referendums.
Scotland is a sovereign nation.
The idea that England has colonised Scotland in recent years isn’t obvious by the numbers. I suspect that prior to the 1950s the flow towards England was the same way. Sure, there have been movements in and out but for most of the time the net flow is southward.
link to gov.scot
A lot of the flow of people now is connected to studying in Scotland and in time they go home again.
It would be nice to have more up to date figures – has Scotland finished its census yet?
Stuart Mctavish,
Those three have spent more time defending the democracy of every other Country but the one they came from,
A hypocrites belief system that seems to be embedded and blinds them to the rights of democracy of their own country,
I think you forgot the tv presenter Mr Oliver,
To turn the other way,
There is none so blind than those who shut their Eyes when they do not want to see parallel realities.
Where rigged voting system will always garner the same results, dictatorship and further colonialism,
Darling a man of integrity who fought for his beliefs? Yeah otherwise known as I will follow and do whatever my paymasters(banksters) tell me. Rue Britannia.
According to posters here, any problem, real or imagined, in Scotland will be one of the following’s fault:
The English in general
The Scots Parliament of 1707
Brexit
The Tories
Queen Anne (who died in 1714)
Shadowy foreign bankers
A combination of any number of the above
Their comments recycle the above endlessly and randomly.
talkin shite again, blakey –
link to ukdataexplorer.com
select
country of birth england
on the drop down menu
now look at the highlands and borders
around 30% by bloc voting in a PR system you can dominate local politics
we don’t have 2021 data yet, it will be much worse, which is why they sit on it
BTW – scotgov once had an interactive map for this, but it has disappeared. The office for national statistics also lacks facility; you can download tables of numbers, which is less obvious
if you thought net zero green nonsense was about saving the planet and not private profit, I have an “exclusive investment” to sell you, tailored for sophisticated gentlemen like yourself …
blackrock are … the for-real entity which makes all conspiracy theories redundant; future profits are green
link to zerohedge.com
– larry fink, their boss, is known as, proudly, “the architect of woke capitalism”; you wonder why the blue haired weirdoes can post all day without doing any proper work?
blackrock are, as you might expect, in edinburgh, since they are everywhere and own about 10% of everything; in a cage fight with goldman sachs and jp morgan, they would leave these vicious adversaries weeping and bleeding from every orifice. Anyone who thinks blackrock are going to save them, you should be a ward of the state.
The wall street journal came out with a whiny piece about “the people just don’t want to pay for the green transition … ” the punchline being : THIS MUST BE IMPOSED TOP-DOWN, BY LAW, BY GOVT INTERVENTION … so much for “the freedom of the market”. Blackrock, being sophisticated, will position themselves to be prime beneficiaries of all this; whatever happens, we get a slice, a fat slice, we must always win.
a good review of climate modelling
link to journals.aps.org
sabine talks to “the guy”
link to youtube.com
bullying pensioners about gas boilers, putting the rubbish in the correct bin, all that pointless shite needs to stop, it does nothing, less than nothing (it puts people off environmental agendas)
– what needs to be shutdown is the american system called “capitalism” (it is a little bit, but really, is not) : fed/wall st and the pentagon – the loan sharks and their enforcers – shylock and rocco with a baseball bat; but 20 trident submarines and 10 carrier battle groups says – “you ain’t”.
People make analogies to the fall of the (western) roman empire; their empire stopped growing, germania/parthia/caledonia, and so their debts grew out of control, they debased the currency, romans didnt want to fight for it anymore, they went multicultural … but the US can just print its own money, so – as long as it has control over crucial energy and tech, it can do this indefinitely, which is precisely what the brics/eurasian integration are trying to stop.
Solving the climate crisis, if you think it serious and you are serious about it, means the destruction of US dominated “capitalism” (monopoly rentier techno feudalist totalitarian surveillance state welfare socialism for the rich free markets for the poor … ) – but if you are an eco-tit blocking the roads, then going for a starbucks, then tweeting about the whole thing on your-fucking-iphone … you are just a useless waste of space and should probably just neck yourself; remove your own carbon footprint from the earth, and for good measure, kill your kids beforehand. Lead by example.
Colonisation does not solely involve a influx of migration, that is only one aspect of Colonisation ,
Albeit a important one,
Imposed and changing the justice system of Scots laws,
Poll taxes on Scotland a year ahead of England or Wales,
Sharing a national debt with the private Bank of England, (not public debt) of England,
Altering and stealing the sea boundaries of Scotland as was supposed to be set out in the treaty of union,
Lying and deceiving Scotland in the MaCrone report,
England extending their monarchy to Scotland to pretend there was a union of crowns prior to the treaty of union,
The land grabs and water for military industrial purposes, which are now out of bounds to Scots,
The dismantling of Scotland industries,
The list is endless on how Colonialism has effected Scotland,
For the Scottish parliament does not exist in the parliament of Great Britain since 1707,
And the treaty of union of two parliaments and two kingdoms joined does not exist,
That Scotland is used and ran from Westminsters parliament of England is nought but Colonialism without a legal foundation for that parliament in England being in a treaty with the very parliament of Scotland they dissolved as their only partner,
England is in a international treaty of union with the parliament of England.
It has fooled Scotland, but many other Countries also past and present and with false treaties that it is in a union with Scotland,
@Pat Blake
Colonialism, being by nature an adaptation to circumstance, can be difficult to recognise. Control, manipulation, stripping of assets are features.
Here is a definition.
“Colonialism is a relationship of domination between an indigenous (or forcibly imported) majority and a minority of foreign invaders. The fundamental decisions affecting the lives of the colonized people are made and implemented by the colonial rulers in pursuit of interests that are often defined in a distant metropolis.
Rejecting cultural compromises with the colonized population, the colonizers are convinced of their own superiority and their ordained mandate to rule.”
I know English people where I live who use the English fleg and who say they will leave at once if Scotland becomes independent.
Confused
Telling it like it is…
what is happening in Scotland is ethnic cleansing it’s a neo-Clearance.
Anglos are far worse than any third worlders; we should require them to wear tophats in public so we can identify the hostile alien parasites among us.
– I would restrict voting to a 2 out of 3 (born here, you, your mum and dad), and the ones already here should be taxed back to England. Land tax, property taxes, council tax, second home tax, green tax, carbon tax, air tax, special taxes to fund gaelic schools and social housing, extra green taxes for “the nrivomen”, and purge all quangos of their leadership, or have them classified as hostile alien entities.
“the anglo calls you subsidy-junkie even as he robs you”
Confused 1 December, 2023 at 1:50 pm
“around 30% by bloc voting in a PR system you can dominate local politics”
There isn’t a single area where English/Welsh/NI dominate Scottish voters. Are you suggesting that Scottish voters are less likely to vote than non Scottish voters? Are they of one political mind? The flow has been two way, my grandfather being but one example. If the figures since 2011 are worse then it’s because more Scots have left.
Geri says:
1 December, 2023 at 1:17 pm
As for England being colonised – don’t make us laugh.
No one is stripping their resources (what are they btw?)
No one is denying them referendums.
Scotland is a sovereign nation.
Of course it was. You Scots don’t have the monopoly on being colonised you know. Read up on the ‘Harrying of the North’, the imposition of the French language and all sorts of horrible froggy things that they did to us. As for England’s resources: land and lots of it to grow crops in and to put their animals.
England is sovereign too but its people are subjects. But I’m not, I am a Mercian and no longer English and that makes me a member of a deprived minority. That is why I empathise with you Scots. Independence for Mercia!
Dundee Scot said;
“According to posters here, any problem, real or imagined, in Scotland will be one of the following’s fault:”
You missed out THE most important one by far;
The English establishment’s perverted interpretation of ‘democracy’ which enabled the unlawful and unwarranted denial of the equality of Scotland’s sovereignty to England’s within the Union of the TWO sovereign kingdoms.
You’re really not very good at this sort of thing are you?
So far the only ‘culture’ difference anyone can firmly identify between the English and Scottish is a greater political lean to the left north of the border. Brexit was born from the right of politics. Scottish independence is a left wing effort.
Why did your grandfather leave?
Xaracen,
“The English establishment’s perverted interpretation of ‘democracy’ which enabled the unlawful and unwarranted denial of the equality…
So, go on. Which actual, in effect law are you stating has been broken? Citation needed.
Whoever signed up to the idea that the union of Scotland and England would be as equals must have been a bit soft in the head. And no James, I don’t want to know when it was and how it was and all of that tedious minutiae of ancient guff.
It happened – get over it.
I was reading this, link to nakedcapitalism.com about what happened in the recent Dutch elections. What’s interesting is that a new party, New Social Contract, NSC, entered the parliament with 20 MPs. The party was formed on 19 August 2023!
So why isn’t Scottish politics so dynamic? Well, there’s quite likely a lot of different reasons for that – media exposure, lack of interest, etc. However it begs the question why didn’t Alba hit the ground running?
All the usual ideas of smear tactics, etc. can be rolled out, but that’s just politicians slinging mud at each other. If you look at the Dutch result, Wilders is the human equivalent of toxic, radioactive sludge, yet his party won the election. However, politicians don’t vote for each other, why is the electorate not so interested in Alba? Hanvey and MacAskill are competent. Salmond is head and shoulders above pretty much everyone and knows how to campaign. They should have had a much better start.
A thought struck me that perhaps Alba is not seen as ready to be elected for the simple reason that Salmond, and to a certain extent the other two have unfinished business with the SNP and so people think that if they elect Alba, even in decent numbers, the party will simply get bogged down by the intransigence of the other parties and nothing much will get done.
Perhaps the lawsuit is just what’s needed to unblock the Holyrood toilet and flush a few turds out of the way.
Geri 1 December, 2023 at 3:02 pm
Why did your grandfather leave?
Training, work, money and my grandmother. My Irish ancestors came for work so that they wouldn’t starve. My English grandparents had it about the same and didn’t end up where they started. My parents and my generation moved about too. Its a utopian world where everywhere and everyone is as well off as every other.
Appreciate some on here may have disagreed with Darling on the once in a Generation vote, but he was pivotal in rescuing the Banking Sector after the 2008 crash.
If you can’t say anything nice about some someone who’s passed away, why say anything at all?
Least Alex Salmond showed some humanity.
Scots have left for alternative work, as we have benn deindustralised of most of our local employment mostly by the Westminster parliament and latterly by the EU regulations on fishing, farming, ship building removed, Scottish forestry. And infrastructures all being removed and privately tendered by major companies from out with Scotland,
From distilleries in beer making to whiskey, from care homes to NHS, from tweed and tartan industries, from Scottish food industries.
Nearly all are under foreign management in Scotland or the tenders are favoured to those out sside of Scotland,
Just check the registration of place of Companies in Scotland but registered out side of Scotland,
Try getting a decent job on the Council preference is given to those from out with the local Area unless you moved to Scotland from else where,
That happens often where we live,
My son as a born Scot could only find low paid menial task work in Scotland so he moved abroad,
He was nominated hardest and best worker three years running in his new company and is now one of the bosses,
Colonialism deliberately destroys enviromenttal and social structures of the indigenous populations.
A flexible aproach to the meaning of “Ring fenced”.
Scottish farmers are up in arms with the SNP for not putting back £28,000,000 of money which was ring fenced for them. Not only that, but they have been docked a further £33,000,000 on top. So £61,000,000 of promised money won’t be handed over.
They should have known that the SNP’s fence had more holes in it than railings, so the money was free to escape. And still people support and vote for them. Until now perhaps.
You thought the Tories were bad? They couldn’t hold a candle to the useless SNP’s incompetence.
They dress like children , act like spoiled children, and have fantasy policies which squander huge amounts of taxpayers money.
I wish the Brits. would release all the dirt they have on them now so we can get rid of them and install some competent adults with grown up ideas to get us out of the almighty mess they have created, and make independence look like it’s back on the cards instead of wishful thinking.
Dasblimp,
Its alright Das, your safe from me trying to expand your intellect, you like your mud hole and I am more than happy to oblige you in your request,
I am surprised you’re still voluntary reading them if it offends you so much , just scroll on by my comments.
These comments are meant for people interested in reading recorded history anyway.
Confused,
I have been reading Some of you’re excellent posts today,
Anum Quaisar ex hubby about to do us all a favour ?
Eric,
Note: most people have decided on the latter and refrained from commenting if we could not find anything nice to say,
Merganser,
We either get rid of this snp and all those sitting in that sub branch office as funded collaborated opposition or.
We open our own Scottish parallel parliament,
The Scottish parliament came under Dissolution in England in 1707,
According to the Institute of governance, UK,
A dissolved parliament has no members,
No representation to its Scottish constituents.
And cannot bind its successor parliament.
Fresh legal start for a parliament of Scotland.
dasBlimp said;
“Whoever signed up to the idea that the union of Scotland and England would be as equals must have been a bit soft in the head. And no James, I don’t want to know when it was and how it was and all of that tedious minutiae of ancient guff.
It happened – get over it.”
All of that tedious minutiae of ancient guff makes what happened unconstitutional and unlawful. We’ll get over it when justice is fully served. Anyone thinking it doesn’t matter is seriously soft in the head.
Horse Box Mike Russell is to stand down as SNP President, he’s already tendered his resignation to Humza Yousaf.
Russell is in the process of taking up a new role in Land Reform, and if his actions as president of the SNP are anything to go by, he’ll do f*ck all of any significance on Land Reform.
Russell said.
“As a result as president of the party I have been called upon to undertake a whole range of unexpected tasks – which I was glad to do – and I hope my contribution over the last nine months has helped to steady the ship,””
Decoded the above translates to, I’ve had to spin a helluva lot of bullshit as SNP president just to keep this party above the water line.
I suppose the taxpayer will now need to shell out for a new horse box for Russell, one that has livery pictures of wide open space of Scottish land on it.
No £100k+ motorhome for Russell.
Old troughers never die they just move to another portfolio.
Xaracen, at 4:13 pm,
Which law was broken? The second time in 6 hours you’ve asserted that, but you don’t spell out which law has been broken. So which law do you have in mind?
As the Zionists resume murdering women and children in Gaza, and now the West Bank, boycotting Israeli produce is something you can do to help the oppressed Palestinians.
Get boycotting now boycott Israeli produce.
“WORKERS across Glasgow’s hospitality sector are being encouraged to boycott produce from companies complicit in Israeli “apartheid” against Palestinians.
Unite Hospitality Glasgow has launched the Serve Solidarity, Boycott Apartheid campaign which aims to support worker-led boycotts of PepsiCo products and Israeli fresh produce, including fruit and veg, following Israel’s bombardment of Gaza.
In its first few weeks, the campaign has already recorded a major success with The Stand Comedy Club becoming the first venue in the city to become a certified supporter. Venues in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Newcastle are now not selling Pepsi products on draught or Israeli fresh produce, such as lemons and limes.
PepsiCo – and specifically its subsidiary Israel-based brand Sodasteam – is one of the firms the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement has listed as being actively complicit in Israel’s policy of “displacing the indigenous Bedouin-Palestinian citizens of Israel in the Negev” and has “a long history of racial discrimination against Palestinian workers”.”
link to archive.is
Just pulling your leg, James. No need to get all huffy-puffy about it. Same applies to xaracen. What a bunch of misery-chumps.
Den @ 3.45.
Is that just a guess?
James Che @ 3:29 pm
“Colonialism deliberately destroys enviromenttal and social structures of the indigenous populations.”
Yes James, colonialism has subordinated and marginalised the indigenous populations and cultures in the ‘Celtic Periphery’ and created “a cultural division of labour within the UK Internal Colonialism Model” (Professor Michael Hechter).
Which gives rise to independence movements that are “based on the solidarity of the oppressed ethnic groups” in Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
Mike Russell resigns as SNP President…
Darling saved the Banking Sector?
I seen this as Labour via Brown did not monitor the Banks as he should have.
He left them to supervise themselves so they went off to the Casino with giant profits and lost.
The banks had to be saved but like Iceland the people behind these risks should have been imprisoned to make an example.
The people with spare cash in bank shares should have lost the lot as they are always warned they may not have a return on their investment.
The Tax Payer should have owned the banks concerned.
Put in the more responsible to run it. Drop the massive bonuses.
Give the public reasonable loan, mortgage and interest rates and pocket the billions in profits for the treasury.
Later tax payers stakes in banks were sold of cheap and at a loss to Tory supporting hedge fund managers.
Mr Darling I believe got one of these nice banking consultant jobs paying hundreds of thousands for a few hours per month.
Blair, Brown, Darling and the Tory Party all made money for themselves and the tax payer got generation after generation of debt.
@merganser all over twitter that this goes to the very top of government.and absolute panic has set in, But our wonderful leader wouldn’t get up to those sort of shenanigans I’m sure. All Rumour and speculation. Nice time (of year ) to be in Dubai.:-)
According to TalkingupScotland the recent mysterious riots in Auchinleck and Cumnock were caused by locals attempting to clear the towns of English drug gangs. Everything was going swimmingly until Police Scotland turned up to restore law and order.
Xaracen,
Cheers,
It happened, we will get over it,
As we remove the wrapper of our Scottish monarchy made in England price tag,
And the treaty of a international union of Englands parliament with the parliament of England.
We will investigate the records and the missing records of the treaty of union and monarchy and get over it.
And I thoroughly enjoy our debates on the subjects,
Everything made in china was a common cry,
But everything made in England for Scotland is a new one,
Dasblimp,
🙂
And Mercia, Alf.
Stoker
Geri
Agree with you about the plague of yoons.
WOS, as I think we all already know is Scotland’s leading blog, an Independence seeking blog that’s been producing quality, fact based articles since 2010. Not forgetting the famous „Wee Blue/Black Books or interviews.
Twitter X or the black version Nitter does it on a minute by minute basis
It’s readers go in to the 100s of thousands, even in the quiet times when the Rev is „recuperating“.
It’s read by indy folk as well as those who prefer/want, often secretly, to keep their „British“ UK. in power. House and field Jocks, politicians, journalists, media BBC etc..
We mustn’t forget either, the fact that it was the Rev that pursued the Trans scandal of the SNP and the sick green goblin.
?
Do they like it, NO because it shows them up as the devious, scheming liars and sh*** bags that they all are.
They’ve tried to get rid of it by fair means or foul, til now at least. ? Apart from getting it switched off by the „Dark Authorities“ in WM, what’s left?
WOS has integrity.
If they can’t get rid of the site, then try to destroy the integrity of it.
Demean the truth, despise the commentators, deflect from the topic, regurgitate over and over again the same long disproven „arguments“
The Kamikaze Yoons come and go, each with new variations of the same old s**t til it won’t wash anymore. No. 23 your time is up, now F. off.
We indy folk already know ourselves that Scotland has loads of problems that need fixing, we know the SNP is f****d and has gone yoon. Nicola S. and chubby Murrel defied every mandate.
Indy is still however holding up very well and is a very good baseline to start from when we get into gear.
We don’t need house jocks coming on here with their drivel to tell us what to think and do because their England is not the role model for us.
It’s politically corrupt and backward as a banana republic.
Infested with sex affairs, Tory wealth
Totally incompetent Governments, infested by Eton
State media/BBC propaganda run
The economy is run down/broken or sold off to foreigners
Privatisation doesn’t work
Brexit a complete failure, laughing stock of the world
Pygmies on the world stage
NHS and social services barely alive, Food banks
Rivers and seas just sewage dumps
This is why I just laugh at Chas, ASA, Dundee Scot, J Main and some of the others whose names I’ve luckily forgotten.. 🙂
I hope the week-end ahead brings some interesting stories.
Have a good one!
“dasBlimp says: at 4:55 pm
Alf Baird says:at 4:37 pm
James Che @ 3:29 pm
Which gives rise to independence movements that are “based on the solidarity of the oppressed ethnic groups” in Scotland, Wales and Ireland.”
…….
And Mercia, Alf.”
——————————–
Until 1066 when Mercia became merci 🙂
RoS, at 4:25pm,
re Boycott of Israel, I was looking at a monthly report on pension investments. I noticed that the fund had sold off some less performing shares, and has gone into investing in the Israeli biotech industry, specifically Nucleix, which has developed a technique called liquid biopsy (identifies cancers much more quickly than standard biopsies), and MeMed (developing an anti-microbial test that delivers more information on the cause of infections, and can be done in the field). Both are now through trials in both America and the EU, so two big markets. More importantly, both technologies are suitable for developing countries which don’t have a dense medical infrastructure.
Those seem to me to be good things for humanity. So I’m quite happy that investment in Israel continues.
I’m calling it as Mike Russell and Mhairi Black.
Alf Baird,
I certainly understand better the impact of colonialism on a indigenous population better now than in my earlier days when I first read your posts,
Thanks for your all perseverance and patience,
As I have recently observed, from news Items, Ireland now is in a national identity crises also as their indigenous population is also being out numbered by the influx of of non Indigenous people to Ireland,,
They themselves are fast becoming a minority in their own Country,
And indeed Wales under went this influx of people into Wales at a much earlier stage, and I was there at the tail end, To see them set their own houses on to stymie the Colonisation of their Country,
And bore the brunt happily but confused of the compulsory reinstating their own native language.
How peculiar is it, that it took longer for myself to recognise the long standing pattern of Colonialism where I live,
Perhaps because It has been well disguised under the falsehood of a voluntary union,
Good one Graf M. That’s the point I made earlier. England was colonised in 1066 and we have been under the Norman yoke to this day. I don’t acknowledge the existence of England and its forelock-tugging subjects any more. I am a independent Mercian. Long live the republic of Mercia! Even our flag is a saltire! We are all together fighting against the perfidy of Albion.
SNP president Michael Russell, who just resigned (scandal?), was born in Bromley, England.
He’s yet another Scots Nationalist leader who, if some here had their way, would be ruled ineligible to vote in a Scottish election!
As I’ve pointed out before, the only leader of the 4 major Scottish parties who’s an ethnic Scot (whatever that is), born in Scotland (things that seem to be deal-breaking to commenters here, if not to me), is Doug Ross of the Conservatives.
Pat Blake says on 1 December, 2023 at 2:34 pm: “There isn’t a single area where English/Welsh/NI dominate Scottish voters.”
I’m not 100% sure of what you’re getting at here, whether you are referring to policies or talking geographically. If you are referring to geographic numbers etc then your statement is a blatant lie.
It’s a blatant lie because when England is divided up into main regions such as the north, south east, central, west etc, anyone of those regions alone has far more MP representation at Westminster than the whole of the country known as Scotland.
I don’t know if i still have the *exact* breakdown of the areas and the number of MP’s each area has but if i find it i will put it up on here for you. Yes, it’s a few years old and there’s been a bit of redrawing of political boundaries in England since that info was produced. But the changes made are nowhere near significant enough to impact the statistics in a way that would make any difference to the situation i mention. Not for Scotland anyway.
If this is not what you’re getting at then just move on by. My point is still a very valid and relevant one though. Relevant to Scotland because no country worth its salt would tolerate being in a political system where anyone of its neighbouring countries regions could, if the need arose, outvote it on any issue they so pleased.
The country of Scotland finds itself in the ridiculous position that, say for example, the south-east of England alone (including London in that region), could stop Scotland doing or getting anything it chooses due to the sheer weight in numbers. Not only the total of MP’s versus Scotland’s total but population-wise too, somewhere in the region of 15-million v 5.3-million?
That is a major reason why it’s important for Scotland to take back its right of self-determination. It’s a bit like NSW (a region of Australia) dictating political decisions to their neighbouring country New Zealand. No Kiwi would ever tolerate it. And Scotland shouldn’t either.
Den @ 4.43.
Dubai is nice at this time of year. But chickens must eventually come home to roost.
I don’t do twitter, but have heard enogh about it to know the problems with accepting all that is on there as gospel.
If everything on twitter is rumour and speculation (as it could well be) it can easily be laid to rest. A carefully framed qquestion next Wednesday perhaps along the lines of ” Will (insert name) put the Scottish people’s mind at rest by confirming that he/she is not one of (insert details).
If a straight answer is not given – well game over. If a straight answer is given which is not in fact straight, and is proved to be less than accurate – same result.
A well stuffed chicken for Christmas.
There’s an open goal for Labour or the Torags if they get it right, but they’ll probably miss the opportunity by not using sbtlety and by going in all guns blazing and missing the sitting duck. Or chicken. Or turkey.
Hope it’s a happy Christmas. The feathers might fly. But whose that waiting in the wings for a dramatic return? Aaargh!
Mike Russell will be forever remembered as the man who attempted to use the people of Gaza as a human shield for Michael Matheson. Shameful.
Re horsebox Mike Russell and his resignation to take up another quango post on land reform just tae keep the bawbees coming in ye ken , Russell was a eager promoter of privatising the SNHS where he and another author maybe John MOAN or ASCAB wrote articles about it and when the articles were outed became all it wisnae me a big boay dun it and ran away, another greedy Tartan Tory
It’s amazing how many brain dead clowns think darling had integrity and was anything but a self serving greedy social climber
Regarding my comment at 5:41pm today. That situation is also another very good reason why we, the voting public, should start boycotting Westminster elections and stop sending folk down there.
They will never achieve anything worth having. They will only ever achieve what the regions of England decide they can. The Scottish contingent at Westminster can be, and often is, outvoted on any issue the BritNats decide.
Sending MP’s to Westminster is now nothing more than giving them a free ticket to board the gravy train. Our interests are best served here in Scotland by those that live here.
Who would be the front runner to take over the SNP if Humza Yousaf had to suddenly resign for whatever reason? Ash Regan’s gone. Katie Forbes? Or someone else?
I have enjoyed the reprieve in having a day off with no medical appointments for my spouse other than it being the nurses turn to dress spouses foot,
I had even sawn and chopped stick for the next week,
So, I made the most of today in joining like minded friends here on wings over Scotland, a site that supports Scottish independence and read by many from all walks of life.
Many well educated and intellectual comments from the majority of you,
Back to the duties tomorrow so I will not be hogging the comment section the same as today even if I do get a chance to make one or two comments in between,
Wish you all a happy day tomorrow and I am signing myself off for today.
Mike Russell can piss off & keep him away from Scotlands land reform. He would happily flog it off for a quid given the chance. He’s a double agent not working for Scotlands interests. People that know him personally & have worked with him say the same. He’s DAF & appears out the same box as Forbes.
What laws have been broken regards the Union? Plenty.
No one gave England permission to Scotlands territory, her oil licences, her sea boundaries & her resources. Or their Muppet King either. Also quoting foreign countries constitution to somehow relate to Scotland being denied a referendum also breaks international law. Parliament laws are also broken. The City of London has over 70 MPs. That’s a fucking liberty against an entire nation & co signatory to a treaty.
Also all the *UK* institutions, at home & abroad, that doesn’t have Scottish representation.
We’re a co signatory. Without Scotland it’s just little England. Pish poor & no resources. Scotland needs to reclaim it’s status & politicians need to start asserting it instead of being struck dumb.
Holyrood also needs to overhaul the voting system in Holyrood. There are dud there picking up a salary for doing sweet fck all. Murdo for example. 8 time election loser but still there 23 fcking yrs later. Achievement’s – Zero.
The Tories shouldn’t even be sitting. No one votes for them.
Yet our branch office is polluted with them doing absolutely nothing but interfering.
A Scot Abroad said;
“Which law was broken? The second time in 6 hours you’ve asserted that, but you don’t spell out which law has been broken. So which law do you have in mind?”
What do you care? They’re in that ‘ancient guff’ you disdain so much!
Is one of the covid lovers Humza
Somone put me out my misery
If it is the snp is over, what a shower of total wallapers
I saw a list of nicolas failures but humza us rapidly catching up
James Che 1 December, 2023 at 3:29 pm
“Scots have left for alternative work, as we have benn deindustralised of most of our local employment mostly by the Westminster parliament and latterly by the EU regulations on fishing, farming, ship building removed, Scottish forestry. And infrastructures all being removed and privately tendered by major companies from out with Scotland”
You have a lot to say about history but have you actually looked at how previous generations lived? The 1700s were the coldest part of the last 10,000 years. 3/4 of my ancestors scraped a living as farmers on land that is so poor, that it’s mostly abandoned now. Out of that they had to feed themselves, pay rent and put a bit aside for other necessities. Even if they hadn’t paid rent (and somebody always dominates an area whether it’s a land owner or a laird) they’d still have been dirt poor. Their lot only improved when they moved away from that. Business wasn’t going to them. Even their local churches were miles away, by foot, which they went to regularly. Working for other people, they started building decent lives.
My Irish ancestors fled starvation but ended up in mines and mills. Despite being in England they married within their community. By my great grandmother’s time they owned a pub and their own house. All lost again by my Devon grandfather drinking his way through the lot.Two steps forwards and one step back.
Would I have wanted to inherit some scraggy fields and a damp cottage – still miles from anywhere? Would I have wanted to do the kinds of traditional industrial jobs that they advanced to? Of fishing, or building ships or making whiskey or even run a pub? My first job was in a factory but in the IT department and like many businesses it closed and the work went abroad. Not because of the UK government but because China is cheaper. It’s cheaper mostly because of coal fired power stations but also because it has cheaper employees who demand less health and safety and very few human rights. Which of those things that we, and the young, consider important are we prepared to ditch in order to compete?
The World has moved on and instead of seeing that the changes were inevitable, you hope to turn back the clock. You moan about WM when the next problems will come from China, India and Africa. Will they want what you have to sell? Will they pay a fair price for it? Will they be kind because you’re a victim of English colonization?
I wonder if the NorfolkASS Has shares 0rgan h4rvesting?
link to twitter.com
Some people will do anything for money.
ASA.
Not even worth the reply apart from to say no one, but no one is surprised that you are backing Israeli businesses.
The N—‘s were an innovative bunch, no doubt you’d have found some of it worth backing.
Mind you complicity was everywhere at that time, and today complicity remains with the Zionist aiders working against the oppressed Palestinians.
Kurt Waldheim Secretary General of the United Nations.
Walter Hallstein Head of the EU Commission.
Adolf Heusinger Nato Chief of Staff.
Wernher von Braun Head of NASA.
James Che @1:37
On contrary, I reckon Neil Oliver has enhanced his reputation greatly since imdyref1 and could make a great leader for “NO” at the next one – especially now trust is so badly broken elsewhere (vow, Europe, holy war, etc).
They’d just need to all come clean on COVID first 🙂
Mike Russell:
“I can’t see the Councillor up the back.”
“I can’t see without my glasses.”
“You there with the I’m with Humza T shirt. Speak.”‘
Xaracen,
there’s no laws in among that ancient guff that states that Scotland and England are co-equal, or as you sometimes allege, have in effect a single vote in Parliament which must be in agreement or the motion fails. That’s a plain outright lie that you trot out most days.
So what else are you referring to?
What can you say about Mike Russell. A crooked old man that overseen the fake hustings to get Humza elected.
“I can’t see without my grasses.”
“We would have gotten away with it Nicola. We’re it not for those meddling Nats.”
A Horse box. And a cap in hand. As Nicola tucked grandad under his red, white and blue covers of Bute House. And switched off his Indy night lamp. ”
A timid old man. Timid of Independence. Certainly. 10 points to many.
And a crooked old man. That said nothing about the abuse Joanna Cherry received. He’s like a paedophile priest that said nothing to see here. That’s what he’s like.
Old. But certainly not gold. And certainly not lovely and cuddly.
Off to land reform is he? That to make sure they’ll be no Robert Mugabi’s of Scottish land reform?
They’ll be no land reform with Mike Russell.
Grandad will be there to protect the Crown Estate.
He said nothing about the Alex Salmond conspiracy. Not a thing about it. You knew all right.
You evil crooked auld bastard. I hope he rots in hell with his shite book. Grasping the thistle.
He never did quite manage it did he?
You’re a total failure Mike. Fuck off. To the political shadows you corrupt Indy Swindler.
Last thing I’ll say on Mike Russell.
Good to see you resigning the day after Alex Salmond announces the new way forward to Independence.
Forever in big Ecks shaddow.
AND just one more thing!
How much did the horse box cost from the ring fenced missing 600K?
Anton Decadent @ 5.15.
The resignation of Russell is a desperate distraction attempt to take the heat off the real culprit. He’s not even got the job yet, so no need to resign as President at the moment, but I bet it is promised to him for doing what he has. I hope this is the start of he SNP imploding.
He knew. He lived in Bute House. He turned a blind eye. But he knew all right.
And your wife must be ashamed of you as well.
Wait until your grandchildren know what your cabal did to Alex Salmond.
Nothing to see here. Sweep sweep. Mike Russell. Back to the Island mike. Where the criminals head on the run to recluse.
Coward of a man.
RoS,
at least the Israelis are doing some good for the world in the Medtech domain. And you want to stop that, because you’ve put politics ahead of your humanity.
@ David Hannah at 7.12
The horsebox belongs to Yes Islay and Jura; Mike Russell merely “officially opened” it in his capacity as ex-local MSP:
link to archive.ph
The temporary name is no doubt why so many people, not just you, think it belonged to Russell; I’ve no idea what it’s called now or whether anyone won the whisky. Pictures suggest it’s languishing in the long grass.
“And you want to stop that, because you’ve put politics ahead of your humanity.”
ASA.
Trust you to have the above back to front, typical and unsurprising they’ve progammed you pretty well.
Humanity should always be ahead of politics.
Fuck Horsebox Russell.
Whatever good guy capital he built up is with old timers living on fumes.
All I ever saw of he guy was a total Sturgeon sucking cunt. Your legacy is her legacy. Shit.
ASA.
On the subject of Israel, there has been much speculation in the media and by tech experts on, is/will AI be safe to use for humanity, in other words will it be used to kill people in the future, well the future is already here.
“The Guardian confirms @972mag investigation that the IDF uses AI to generate bombing targets in Gaza at an unprecedented rate, powering a “mass assassination factory” in which the “emphasis is on quantity and not on quality”.
It’s probably the most dystopian revelation of the war so far. All these women and children killed are literally selected as targets by machine.”
And as well all know machines have no feelings or conscience.
link to nitter.net
Re my 8.14pm.
I’ve produced the link to save folk hunting for it please read it.
link to 972mag.com
Humza has been shagging Anum Quasir in lockdown and has to resign.
You’ve heard it from me first!
Rumour has it they are in Dubai right now together. While his wife stays home and looks after the children!
I wonder if she’ll be changing the locks when he comes back?
All the arseholes he knew Salmond was being stitched-up but essentially kept their heads down and their mouths shut for whatever pathetic and craven ‘reasoning’ are now the same twats telling us ‘just replace Humza and everything will be fiiiiine, we can fix this’. No it fucking won’t. Fuck the SNP and fuck you for being such bawless wanks. SNP = Damaged goods = That includes you.
Never, ever going back. Even the ‘good guys’ who remain I have come to depside.
Von Der Crazy is headed to China to wag the finger at the Chinese for not supporting Russian sanctions… I doubt there’s going to be an EU for much longer
Galloway talking with an Iranian professor of American studies. Always good to see yourself through the yes of others. Really very interesting. Especially how his first (but not only) answer to ‘why all Western leaders support an on-going genocide’ was… ‘Epstein and many other ‘Epsteins”.
youtube.com/watch?v=20p5IgOF15o&ab_channel=GeorgeGalloway
Humza’s angels. Friday. Sally Donald. Saturday. Anum Quasir. Sunday. Mhairi MaCallan.
And then phone the wife and children on Monday.
That should do it. Pencil that in for me angels.
“Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.
The only ones that can free us are ourselves”
“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of it”
Assata Shakur.
Ring any bells?
@David Hannah 8:37pm
It has been known since February 2023 that they were allegations of two SNP MSPs having an extramarital affair when restrictions applied to the rest of the Scottish Public. That in itself would be a criminal offence. See countless others Ferrier. Hancock. Ferguson the epidemiology expert etc. All resigned or were otherwise displaced. The new power couple of Scottish Politics won’t rock the boat. There is no evidence available to say otherwise. Interdicts are not visible but the public interest would trump them anyway. So why have the MSM not investigated on a possible criminal offence and for them a salacious scoop. It requires the injured parties to come clean with the evidence. The texts and so on otherwise its an unsubstantiated allegation. And think of the damage to the Independence movement. A first minister fitted up and cleared in a criminal court. A second first minister arrested pending an investigation. A third first minister investigated for Covid violations. Might as well close down Holyrood. But it sums up where Scotland is at present. One law for us and a separate law for Holyrood members. See Michael Matheson.
@Republicofscotland –
Just a quick one to say more power to ye.
😉
I’ve been busy.
Anything been happening?
About Indy, I mean. Not the usual guff, ancient and modern, the usual suspects like to post about endlessly on here.
I guess not.
Shagging stories? Innarestin. Big prize for the first poster who claims it wos the English wot made them do it.
RoS says
“Humanity should always be ahead of politics”
Whooee, at the end of a week featuring multiple “dancing on the graves” posts from those who believe no fate is too horrible for those on the opposite side of the political fence, RoS comes up with that beauty.
Keep them coming, RoS, and your position as Wings BTL resident unconscious comedian will be yours for as long as you want it.
Edinburgh being the little village that it is, it’s somewhat striking to hear that there’s gossip about the occupant of Bute House.
Just gossip, at the present.
Might have known the horsebox wasn’t the SNPs.
It wouldn’t be like them to put their hand in their pocket to fund anything for the grassroots who worked tirelessly out of their own pocket for nothing.
Unless you were Dross Greer who was apparently paid. Murrell must like gingers lol
Helping themselves, like the £600k, another thing hen pecked Mike blatantly lied about to the membership to save Nicola & her husband’s deceit to people who could least afford it.
& Aye, turning a blind eye to the stitch up too won’t be forgotten in a hurry either.
From sell out Hydro to a numbers that would only fill a shed. What a legacy.
I don’t know why there is secrecy over who was having an affair. They’re not royalty that should be protected. The media are another bunch of useless arseholes asleep at the wheel. Another useless organisation reduced to typing up instructions rather than doing their jobs.
@Stuart MacKay 3:05
Excellent post, crucial questions to answer, not a damp fart of interest from anybody BTL.
As you point out, it’s happening in lots of countries, but not here.
John Main @10.54am 17 August 2023
“You know what, Robbo, I don’t have a fucking clue.
…..
There’s a welter of contradictory claims, statistics and facts online. I don’t have the time to wade through them.”
Stoker says 1 December, 2023 at 5:41 pm
I was talking about choices in Scotland. Scotland was not dominated by non Scottish votes in the Scottish referendum. At the next election it won’t be non Scottish votes who decide which parties win what seats. Will Alba take seats from the SNP? Will Alba stand on a platform of only true Scots being allowed to vote on Scottish independence?
If people born outside Scotland are moving in then it’s because they want to, not because of any evil machinations. There is nothing being demanded by any party that would reverse that. Would the average Scot be happy if an English party wanted to exclude Scots living in England from general elections?
Which Scottish party is demanding that Scotland and England are equal in the union? Or that the union was invalid? Who would take them seriously? The SNP didn’t lose the referendum because of a lack of interest in independence but because of a lack of a coherent plan for the future. Humza isn’t improving that by creating reports that deliberately omit the importance of England in their plans for future exports. The idea that if Scotland could arrange everything to their liking then they’d get independence, is impossible. Whether you like it or not, there are conflicting issues and bodies. They won’t go away. So start demanding decent plans for the future or just forget independence. If the prospects were great, you might get English people moving in to vote for it.
Pat Blake @ 11:00 am
“The SNP didn’t lose the referendum because of a lack of interest in independence but because of a lack of a coherent plan for the future.”
Post-indref surveys suggest the irregular use of Holyrood’s local government election franchise for a constitutional question decided by referendum lost Scotland’s people their right to independence. Had we been permitted a more proper internationally recognised definition for ‘the people of Scotland’, as correctly reflected here in the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement (i.e. defined by place of birth and parental descent), Scotland would already be independent:
[ANNEX 2 Declaration on the Provisions of Paragraph (vi) of Article 1 In Relationship to Citizenship]
“The British and Irish Governments declare that it is their joint understanding that the term “the people of Northern Ireland” in paragraph (vi) of Article 1 of this Agreement means, for the purposes of giving effect to this provision, all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence.”
Pat Blake;
A howler by sentence two. Must be a record even for you?
Scots voted 60%+ YES in 2014 – ‘others’ who would’t normally get a vote scuppered it due to the strange town council type franchise that was used; a free for all.
UN sanctioned franchise next time, please.
Born here or
parents born here or
lived here for 20 years+
(In France they don’t even allow no.3 except for local elections).
Just a question, Alf, without necessarily disagreeing with you. Doesn’t that definition lack a residence qualification? In that case, doesn’t it enfranchise many born in Northern Ireland but now working and living in other places, including those now living and working in other parts of the UK (as well as in the Republic of Ireland)?
If that criterion had been used for the 2014 Scottish referendum, would it not have included many real Scots, born in Scotland, who are now domiciled in England (and others – much less numerous – in Wales and Northern Ireland)? Although many such might have been pro-independence in their hearts, would there not have been many practical reasons that would have made it very difficult for them to vote for independence?
In particular, think of those working down south who would have been fearful of losing their livelihood; those who would have been scared off by the threatening noises the Unionists made – however unfounded – about erecting border posts between the two countries; those persuaded to vote against independence for family reasons (i.e. those settled in England with English partners and English-born children, whose feelings and wishes would influence their vote) etc.
I may be wrong, but my guess is that enfranchising Scots living abroad would have increased the ‘No’ vote, not the ‘Yes’ vote. If I remember rightly, I think Alex Salmond said excluding Scots living abroad was a very difficult call. My second guess is that he (rather than Cameron) was, all the same, the one who decided to go for that option.
If so, it was Alex Salmond (not Cameron) who calculated that the residential rather than the Scots-born criterion for eligibility to vote would favour the independence cause. Cameron wouldn’t have had a clue about it. He might even have thought that most Scots living (in particular) in England would vote ‘Yes’. So he probably thought he had won a point when Salmond ‘conceded’ on the issue. But what I imagine seemed to Cameron to be ‘Salmond’s concession’ was actually Alex Salmond getting one over on him.
Cameron, having deliberately eschewed his Scottish ancestral connections – despite his obviously Scottish name, he generally preferred to mention a comparatively tenuous connection with a Jewish ancestor – didn’t have a clue about Scotland or the Scots. Whatever our hearts tells us, and whatever we wholeheartedly and emotionally wish for, our heads still do come into gear in matters like this. So too does our self-interest. The heart doesn’t always rule the head, and the head can overturn it even at the last minute. The canny Scot still very much exists.
More’s the pity, in my view. Too canny – which ends up with, ye cannae dae this, ye cannae dae that, it willnae work, lea’e it alane, forget a’ aboot it…
That’s the Scotland that breaks yer hairt, as MacDiarmid so rightly said. But – alas – it is a reality. And if Alex Salmond calculated the way I think he probably did – well, he kens us, does Alex … does he no’?
Just a pity he didnae ken the Madame referred to in the cartoon on the next post. Now there – on that one – he really did miscalculate. Unfortunately – for him, for sure, … and for all of us! And for Scotland … aye, for Scotland.
Wull
Good post.
Linked to Stuart MacKay’s post from yesterday, in its ideas about Scottish lack of drive.
As Stuart points out, new political movements, with new leaders and policies, are springing up everywhere. Holland and Argentina in just the last month.
So if other nations can do it, why can’t Scotland?
The non Scots don’t outnumber the Scots. Had the support for independence been very high, they’d have won.
“who would’t normally get a vote scuppered it due to the strange town council type franchise that was used; a free for all.” James.
“Post-indref surveys suggest the irregular use of Holyrood’s local government election franchise for a constitutional question decided by referendum lost Scotland’s people their right to independence.”
Alf Baird
So Holyrood set the terms and lost. Probably set the terms to exclude Scots living in England but then had to include non Scots living in Scotland and even any EU or Commonwealth citizen living there too.
“Born here or parents born here or lived here for 20 years+” James.
That might include a lot of English living in Scotland. Would include Scots living in the rest of the UK and elsewhere. They don’t stop being Scottish because they aren’t living there.
“or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence” Alf
Which would include anyone with British citizenship living in NI.
“Overseas voters
Irish citizens residing in the UK can register to vote in all UK elections.
1 Some Irish citizens may register to vote as overseas voters if they meet conditions set out in the 1985 Act as amended.
The Belfast Agreement of 1998, also known as the Good Friday Agreement, recognises “the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose.”
2 The 1985 Act was amended so an eligible Irish citizen denotes:
a person who is an Irish citizen under Irish law, who was born in Northern Ireland and who also qualifies as a British citizen under UK law.”
What you want is to exclude people with a right to a vote but who might prefer to be part of the UK. Nice try but no party is offering that.
Pat Blake.
The parliament of Scotland was dissolved from the treaty of union in 1707, by the parliament of England and has not been it for over 300 years.
No need for referendums on the subject in Scotland
Get over it,
@Pat Blake 2:04
Your final paragraph proves you get it!
I have been advocating for some time that the easier route to Indy lies with coming up with policies that appeal to everybody in Scotland who votes. The universal constant is of course personal prosperity. If Indy makes a plausible, coherent, understandable case for putting more money in the pockets of Scottish voters, then Indy’s a sure thing.
If Indy continues with the Ancient Guff, micromanaging the franchise (for a referendum that ain’t gonna happen – go figure) or scaring everybody with threats to make them speak and write Scots, then it’s 10 more years in the wilderness.
There are some signs that Alba accepts that making the economic case for Indy is the only show in town. But I wish they would get their skates on with it.
Make the economic case, form a competent, rational, grounded, administration, put Indy to a plebiscitary vote – that’s the steps needed, and they’ll take time. The longer Indy spends in pursuing imaginary, “with one bound they were free” fantasies, the longer conditions in Scotland will deteriorate for everybody.
Wull, I recall a speech by Ms Sturgeon at a US university post-2014 where she was asked why Scotland used an irregular local government election franchise for a constitutional matter decided by national referendum. Her answer was more or less to the effect that UK civil servants advised Ministers that it was the easiest approach, in their opinion. Any other method might imply some additional effort (and thought) on their part!
In terms of a national diaspora, it is well established that many countries include their first generation diaspora when considering matters of constitutional change, if not also for general elections.
Perhaps what needs to be considered here is the fact that self-determination primarily relates to ‘a people’ rather than ‘a place’ per se, and usually defined by factors such as common identity, heritage, history, culture, language, common suffering and ethnicity. The UN states that the self-determination process should not be subject to external interference and here we might consider also the effects of population displacement policies used by colonial powers.
What the Scottish/UK government has done in the specific Scottish context is therefore to define ‘the people of Scotland’ solely by place of residence; this is not what self-determination is about at all, as we can see from the quite different and internationally accepted approach by the British and Irish Governments in respect of Northern Ireland, and in many other instances.
Pat Blake @ 2:04 pm
“Irish citizens residing in the UK can register to vote in all UK elections.”
I think you will find that UK citizens residing in Ireland are not permitted to vote in a referendum in Ireland, nor in EU elections there.
James Che,
you never get it.
The Parliament of Scotland was dissolved in 1707 by the Queen of Scotland. It was both to do with the English Parliament.
Alf Baird
If people who have fecked off to somewhere better (and very few ever feck off somewhere worse) want a vote, they can come back here first.
People who have moved here to work and/or pay taxes, whether they are “new” or returning “old” Scots, should get a vote.
The solution is not to micromanage the franchise in the hope of identifying a cadre that will vote Yes, but to extend the promise and appeal of Yes so that most people will vote for it.
Your idea is a recipe for failure.
My idea is a recipe for success.
“The Teacher”;
“My idea is a recipe for success.”
But we all know you’re a loony tune Yoon.
John Main
You are (still) ignoring the realities of life within a colonial society.
In a colonial society a ‘cultural division of labour’ is imposed and normalized, prioritising the imposed ‘superior’ culture and language, which is not native.
Following on from mass historic evictions, transportations, and incentivised removals (3+ million!), native people also leave because of the lack of opportunity afforded to them in thair ain laund.
Meantime people arrive incl. a meritocracy from the mother country who have ‘opportunities reserved for them’, and/or where there is ‘a profit to be made’, and ‘for an easier life’ based on ‘privilege’ (Memmi).
A colonial society is therefore not a natural development but is instead ‘a manufactured society’, which also largely explains the 50% ‘No’ vote.
Thus, in order to fully understand the ‘No’ vote you really need to first understand colonialism.
Alf Baird,
You most certainly don’t understand colonialism if you think that Scotland has been colonised.
ASA. What do you call it when a larger country takes a smaller countries natural resources, and claims them as their own. When a larger country clears the smaller countries highland population, and replaces them with sheep. Then does the same with the working classes 200 years later.
When it tells a country it needs permission to even voice an opinion on its future. Then refuses such permission. Drains every last drop of oil revenues, gas and whisky. Plunders an entire nation, keeps its natives in poverty. While siphoning billions and billions of pounds from its borders.
Outvotes the smaller country 10/1 at every election and votes in its so called Parliament Controls its broadcasting, its economics, its foreign policy, its taxes and imports and exports.
No Scotland is definitely not a colony!
Big Jock,
none of what you write really happened in the way that you write it.
For a start, since 1707, there’s actually only been one country, and Scotland and England (and don’t forget Wales, and later Ireland) are in practice just different parts of that larger country.
Secondly, those who encouraged people to leave Scotland were Scots themselves. It was only in Ireland that the English took an active role.
Thirdly, given that it’s all one country, it wasn’t Scotland’s oil, gas etc. It was the UK’s. If you want to advance your argument, consider that Scotland has received vastly more funds that were raised in London than it has ever sent south. Your argument leads to nothing apart from London demanding 316 years of revenues back if you want to keep the minor revenues from 50 years of oil and gas.
Alf as you say , we need to understand the no vote.
Native Scots by some 54% voted for independence. Non natives, and let’s be blunt. English colonisers were given a franchise,knowing they could thwart the natives vote. Imagine the English had allowed EU citizens a franchise and stopped England’s Brexit? Further still. Imagine Brussels or Strasbourg telling England it needed permission to even vote on the EU.
Yet some colonisers still peddle the myth that they have not colonised Scotland. Mind you, would we expect anything different?
Big Jock,
you do realise that the franchise for IndyRef 2014 was decided upon and raised as an Act of the Scottish Parliament in 2013, led by none other than Nicola Sturgeon?
ie who got to vote was a ScotGov decision. It went first through Holyrood, then was referenced in the S30 notice in Westminster.
link to legislation.gov.uk.
ASA Did I say who administered the franchise? Your point caller? I didn’t agree with the franchise. The fact that Sturgeon fell into a trap of her own making. Does not alter the fact that the colonisers used their vote to veto Scottish independence.
Scotland is a nation not a region. The UK is a state of multi nations.
link to gov.scot
Big Jock,
quit whining. It was a ScotGov decision, the franchise is precedent now, it ain’t going to be any different if there is a next time around. And there’s more English retirees, and less EU citizens.
A Scot Abroad @ 5:10 pm
“You most certainly don’t understand colonialism if you think that Scotland has been colonised.”
Why do you think a people seek independence, which is what the UN define as decolonization? Its you an fowk like ye wha disnae ken whit thay’re haverin aboot.
Alf Baird,
most Scots aren’t seeking independence.
Having worked within the UN, including speech-writing for UNSC debates (which is mostly an exercise in gaining pre-event consensus, not wordsmithing), I recognise the U.K. to have entirely flexible morals.
@Alf Baird 4:22
I think I already do understand the No vote, thanks.
Something over 50% of Scottish voters were unimpressed by the Indy offer on the table in 2014. Pundits agree it was the currency issue that sank it – canny Scots weren’t prepared to risk their hard-earned assets for an unknown.
The solution is to accept the world as it is, us Scots “colonised” as we are, and craft the Indy offer to appeal to what we all want. Peace, prosperity and sanity mostly covers it.
It’s so bleeding obvious I marvel at having to constantly point it out.
John Main 2 December, 2023 at 2:38 pm
“I have been advocating for some time that the easier route to Indy lies with coming up with policies that appeal to everybody in Scotland who votes.”
I can only assume that the endless discussions about electoral loopholes and ancient decisions is because the pro indy crowd don’t think that there is a workable plan to persuade voters to choose to leave the UK. I fear that they’re right. What they want is a bigger welfare state, paid for by oil and gas. Assets that are dwindling and theoretically being phased out. It doesn’t matter if England* stole those assets or not, you’re not getting them back. They’ve been spent. More than spent, based on the national debt. The questions should be about how you go forward.
If Scotland is to be independent it needs to live within its means. Ideally, that would be to spend less than its means. If it could get its services running more efficiently, it could end up in the black. I’m not just blaming the Scots, England has exactly the same problem. Much of the 90s and early 00s social provision was paid for with old assets (like water) and new borrowing. Our societies have been spending too much on itself for a long time. We seem incapable of spend wisely. As countries we’re like the flash family down the road who live the high life on credit. Then there’s an external crisis and all of a sudden they’re not just broke but they’re losing everything they’ve built up. From services like the NHS to Health and Safety laws these are luxuries that we’ve mistakenly come to think we are naturally entitled to. We’re not.
* Since England now holds a great many people descended from Scots, surely some of those Scottish assets are partly theirs too?
ASA,
2 December 2: 52 pm.
Quit your inaccurate whining and shifting the truth records to suite yourself.
1: the parliament of Scotland was dissolved by the queen of England France and Ireland.
2: provide the date (exact) that Scotland held any kind of ceremony that made her Queen of Scots or her territory.
Thats enough for your homework right now,
However I have plenty more for you if you keep making groundless assertions and can’t back up.
ASA,
The parliament of Scotland was dissolved from the treaty of union by the queen of England and the Westminster parliament of England in England.
And no matter which way you wriggle when you can not find the date for “Scotland” making Queen Anne of England, Queen of Scots the result and outcome was the Same,
Scotland was dissolved from the treaty of union in 1707 , from the parliament and country of England.
ASA,
The Institute for Governance, UK.
Dissolution:
A parliament that comes under Dissolution, ( Dissolved )
1: has no members,
2: cannot represent its constituents, (Scotland)
3: A dissolved parliament cannot bind its successor parliament.
If you consider the parliament of England as the successor state (or kingdom) ( which was not dissolved on the same date as Scotland, in England)
Then the parliament of England is the only parliament and Countryor kingdom left in the treaty of union in 1707.
James Che, even if what you write was true, who will do anything about it? Who would take it to court? Which court would find in your favour and do anything about it? If you can’t or won’t take it to court yourself, what makes you think anyone else will? You’re wasting your energy and enthusiasm on a dead end. Surely it would be better to explore the future than fossick about in the past?
Blakey’s obstinacy grates
– let the penny drop, let it sink in
the national question of the Scottish people is for them alone. No non-scots should get a vote. None.
– that there remain, for the present, more Scots than English in Scotland is irrelevant.
That even one englishman voted in the referendum of 2014 was a crime against democracy.
They voted 80:20 for the union in 2014 and this was decisive; this result should have been made invalid and we must make sure it never happens again.
I have a better voting system, for it does not remove anyone’s rights, it merely redraws their weighting
You get a vote if
– you are resident here
– you were born here
– your mother/father/grandparents were born here
but they all stack, so I get 4 votes for my grandparents, 2 for my parents, 2 for myself. I get 8 votes – range rover little englander in his green wellies, got a great deal on a house, er, he gets a vote, but he gets one. Too bad, so sad. Incomers can never veto, override, or be the deciding factor in anything other than a knife edge vote. This also addresses a basic problem of politics – economic power too readily translates into the political.
The natives will always have the power – e.g 80% on the 2011 census are scottish, which gives them about 24 million votes to the remnants 1 million.
I like this franchise – everyone gets a say, but if you turned up 5 minutes ago you don’t get to shout down the people who were here for centuries.
Replace PR with FPTP on constituencies 1/3 the size; voting to be made compulsory (postal vote banned), but always with a “none of the above option” – if this wins, a random citizen from that constituency gets the job, like an extended jury duty, with a decent wage. Thus the people are always represented, can always get rid of arseholes, and it is very hard for a professional political class to arise which lives independently from the people, in a “bubble”. This will almost overnight eliminate the power of the determined, highly funded, minority who knows how to lobby; the NGOs, the sex rights freaks, the foreigners will have no say as is right. We should also do something about the ridiculous over-representation of minorities at Holyrood, we need quotas.
Oh dear – boo hoo – are the english crying about being outvoted 10-1 by the Scots … I mean, its just so unfair … oh wait whut? …
At minimum we need to adopt UN norms for any referendum, and use an external body to run it and FFS ban postal voting.
Many thanks, Alf Baird, for yours at 2:40 pm on 2nd December, which I much appreciate, in response to mine of 12.57 pm on the same day. I in fact very much agree with you. Native population, those born there, is indeed a better criterion for voting rights than simple residence, especially on such a radical issue as independence. And take your word for it that this is the more normal rule, even in international law and/or precedent from around the world. I am glad to hear that such is the case.
My only doubt was with your original assumption that use of such a criterion would have guaranteed that ‘Yes’ win the referendum. My original guess was that more of those from furth of Scotland thereby gaining eligibility to vote would, unfortunately, have voted ‘No’ rather than ‘Yes’, even on account of their own self-interest.
On the other hand, besides the fact that my guess was only a guess and might have been proved wrong on the fay, there is also another consideration that I did not sufficiently factor in. The residence qualification used in 2014 enfranchised plenty who surely voted ‘No’for reasons that had nothing to do with any consideration of what was genuinely best for Scotland. EU citizens working in Scotland were led to believe that they would lose their jobs, and have to go, if ‘Yes’ won. So most of them probably voted ‘No’.
As for many of those from the rest of the UK who were able to claim residence in Scotland (whether legitimately, or on the basis of the ridiculous ‘holiday home’), two points need to be made. The first is to acknowledge the sterling work put in by ‘English Scots for Yes’, who waged a fine campaign which was a big help. The second is to admit that the ‘Yes’ voters among these non-native Scots from elsewhere in the UK remained a minority. Most of them, we may be sure, voted ‘No’. Often for their own benefit and convenience, or even just because of an inherent emotional bias against the whole idea of Scotland as an independent country.
In this latter case, I think such people were often guided by an English-dominated – and, allow me to say it, historically ignorant – understanding of what the Union actually is. In other words, these kind of votes was based largely on unexamined assumptions. Fundamentally, they voted for England, even though the question was not about England – it was about Scotland.
Underneath all the apparently reasonable and supposedly rational arguments, most of the time the motor of history for most people remains emotional. Scottish independence is still a gut issue, and it still inspires gut reactions of one kind or another. Whether you are for it or against it, there is no getting away from that fact. Politicians, despite all the calculations and arguments they undoubtedly have to make, even to the best of their ability, cannot ignore it. Ultimately, the gut factor swings it one way or the other. Because that is ultimately what swings the voters.
Thank you once more, Alf, for your response, which I appreciate.
Confused says:
3 December, 2023 at 2:00 pm
“Blakey’s obstinacy grates
– let the penny drop, let it sink in
the national question of the Scottish people is for them alone. No non-scots should get a vote. None.”
No, let your penny drop. Nobody in power is going to accept your demands. You can have your pretendy debates here till the Highland cows come home but it’s not going to happen. Your idea that only an elite bunch of pure Scots can vote in an election that affects other legitimate citizens in Scotland is a non starter. That includes people who moved from the rest of the UK and people from other countries who have taken UK citizenship and live in Scotland. The UN won’t even endorse it because you’d be excluding minorities from across the globe. It would smell a lot like white supremacy. On top of everything else, WM can just say ‘no’. The courts agree. Get the question taken to ECHR and maybe you might be onto something but I very much doubt that they’d accept it. It would trigger too many internal problems. I suspect that Sturgeon has already run the idea with the appropriate people and been shot down.
You don’t want to consider a legitimate plan because deep down you know that there is little hope of forming one.
Pat blake.
Before anyone can act on the information they all have to be made aware that it exists,
Scottish Politicians are in the know already, but they like the pay dirt from down south in the sub Branch management office sent to Scotland under Westminster legislation and statues, the Scottish devolved pretendy parliament,
They can read it in the parliamentary libraries any time they like,
It is The people of Scotland that need to know the same information that is kept behind closed doors.
Then a decision can be made by the people of Scotland what is the next step,
Confused (as ever, living up to your screen name).
Good luck with any world body taking your franchise suggestion seriously. 8 to one? Dreamland.
James Che 3 December, 2023 at 11:49 pm
“Before anyone can act on the information they all have to be made aware that it exists,
Scottish Politicians are in the know already, but they like the pay dirt from down south in the sub Branch management office sent to Scotland under Westminster legislation and statues, the Scottish devolved pretendy parliament.
Then a decision can be made by the people of Scotland what is the next step,”
Unless you’re talking about a revolution, then ‘people’ won’t do much at all. All they can do is choose politicians who they think will do their will. If none of the current crop will act on your ideas, then where will the better politicians come from? Maybe the current crop are not convinced by your arguments? Maybe they’re not constitutional lawyers and don’t understand what you do? Maybe they think that it’s a bit late to reverse several hundred years of precedent, including the 2014 referendum that endorsed the current situation?
And of course if you’re right then what would happen if the union fell apart in an instant? There would be no period of negotiation while still under the UK umbrella. Suddenly you’d have no trade deals with anyone, including the UK. You wouldn’t even be a member of the WTO. You wouldn’t have valid passports. All those things that you refuse to plan for a future legitimate referendum would come to pass instantly. Have you even thought about the things that are currently shared between the nations and how Scotland would suddenly run their own version?