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Wings Over Scotland

All the people, all the time

Posted on December 17, 2016 by


Order “Welcome To Cairnstoon”, Chris’ compilation of Wings cartoons and more, here.

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    358 to “All the people, all the time”

    1. Dorothy Devine says:


    2. jimnarlene says:


    3. defo says:

      Nicely done Chris.
      Lovely characterisation.
      A braw wee parcel indeed.

    4. Ken500 says:

      You can’t please all of the people all of the time. That lot certainly don’t don’t. 3rd rate rejects. If any Councils can’t manage to provide essential services with the money that they get. They should all resign en masse and let people in who can.

      Those who can do. Those who can’t join Unionist Parties.

    5. Stoker says:

      Good grief! Could they not find a more suitable Best Man and Maid of Honour? Lovely couple though, eh! Well suited!

      Have a great and safe weekend troops.

    6. Ruglonian says:

      It seems to me that the loss of credibility to personal reputation is entirely acceptable to some folks if it secures their ultimate goal of sullying the reputation of the Holyrood Parliament in the eyes of the public – what other conclusions are to be drawn when you observe the shambles that is First Ministers Question Time for example!

      Great toon as always Chris 🙂

    7. Fran says:

      There is something I don’t understand about Scots unionist and I’m hoping one of you can explain to me.

      Why do they hate being Scots?

      Burns night and they are out at Tesco buying their neeps n haggis. At a wedding they are in their Highland dress. Any excuse and they are in a kilt.

      But when the dice is thrown to be counted as one, they shirk the responsibility, cringe and keep decision making in the hands of our neighbours.

      It is a thing that I cant get my head around

    8. Sharney Dubs says:


      Can’t look at the Dug without a giggle, like a wee lost girlie…

      Good job Chris

    9. defo says:

      “Ms Davidson said he had instructed his funeral be held on a Friday.
      This was because parliament was not sitting, “so the SNP wouldn’t win any votes while Tories were here”.

    10. Capella says:

      Where’s Ruth?

    11. X_Sticks says:

      Aye, Capella, I too notice that Murrrdddooo seems to have take over the leadership of the nasty party (northern branch). Is the mooth away for re-programming?

      On a more serious note, what the SNP and in particular Messers Swinney and Mackay have managed to do with the pocket money we get from Westminster is nothing short of astonishing. If only…

      Another excellent toon Mr Cairns and seasons greetings to you.

    12. winifred mccartney says:

      Ruthie is hiding – she does not really want anyone to know she is a tory – she is probably looking for next tv opportunity – she is strictly a tory and takes her instructions from WM but likes to get fun pics in the papers to hope people don’t notice she is actually CONSERVATIVE – she even wore a red not blue scarf at Alex Johnstone’s funeral on friday – all froth and no substance – remind you of anyone aT all.

    13. Neil says:

      Facebook are starting a crack down on fake news. I suppose that means that The Daily Mail, Record and others will see their accounts blocked?

    14. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ruth the Mooth is still in intensive care, recovering from the battering she took from Nicola on Thursday.

    15. Tackety Beets says:

      Another classic Chris , thank you.

      Jokers to the left , Yoons to the right.

      The Yoons, MSM etc are getting in a real fankle conflating SNP @ WM and what SNP actually do @ SGT .

      At this point SNP needs to shout out “We are very limited whilst in the Union and it would be totally wrong to deviate wildly from WM Taxation whilst we are in this Union. The Scottish tax payers should never pay twice”. Or words to this effect.

      I’m SNP get me outta here !

    16. Lennie says:

      The Westminster Tory masters: when are you going to start using your tax raising powers?

      The Holyrood Tory puppets: don’t use your tax raising powers.

    17. heedtracker says:

      Future Baroness Sarah Smith’s blanket budget coverage, “SNP can no longer blame Westminster,” was very BBC mentalist too. Sarah never mentioned what the actual blaming is about.

      Wrong narrative. Should be fun watching yoon culture now demand to know why Scots haven’t paid off our £15bn black hole of UKOK doom yet, with PAYE.

    18. Cuilean says:

      i thoroughly enjoyed Derek Mackay running rings around Andrew Neil on The POlitics Show yesterday.

      Neil has a distinct interview style when speaking to the SNP. He reads out statements and asks obscure statistical questions from a BBC pre-prepared sheaf of papers which would choke a horse!

      How Neil/BBC thinks this is inciteful interviewing I have no idea! It just makes the BBC look as if they have some sort of political agenda against the SNP/Scotland! The English Tory MP who Neil interviewed immediately after Derek MacKay, certainly was not treated to the same acidic cross examination! The Tory MP was allowed to witter on without interruption or comment or opposing point of view by Neil/the BBC. Anyone might think Neil was a big fat Tory with a flat in Trump Tower! LOL!

      Derek McKay quite brilliantly put Neil in his place and called Neil out three times for simply reading out the misbegotten Labour Press release. It quite made my day. Thank you Derek.

    19. Grouse Beater says:

      What a bunch of lardy fools and hypocrites, Chris. Even after they get together to conspire they can’t get their story straight.

      Have a good festive time. Thanks for some great cartoons.

      Your weekend reading:

      A pampered pooch:
      Taking a break:

      Here’s to a stress-free festive time, folks … if you can get it. Remember, Christmas spirit isn’t only for Christmas … or something like that.

    20. DerekM says:

      lol yep Chris

      @ Fran its because they have neeps for brains

      And Ruthie made such a walloper of herself she is hiding from the Andra brillo pad monster who is raging his wee silly wig off being shown up on state propaganda TV.

      Arrrg it my TV no fair eh Andra check you facts you old duffer your BBC pal Ruth is quite insane and has gone down with a nasty case of SNPbaditis.

      I wonder how she likes the peoples hot seat now and i thought Labour were chumps there could be hope for wee Wullie yet to get his chance in the peoples hot seat lol 🙂

    21. Ghillie says:

      What a miserable lost bunch of goons.

      Are they actualy paid to spout this nonsense?

      Chis, you do know they quake in their boots when they see their likenesses turn up under your pen? Keep up the good work!

      After all Chris, your toons may, one day, be the only record of their existance.

    22. Marie Clark says:

      That’s a keeper Chris. Well summed up. Fair brightened up my morning.

    23. Nana says:

      Loving your cartons Chris, amazing detailed likenesses to the four [wooden] tops singing the same old song.

      Morning links on previous thread.

    24. I’m glad he included Saint Harvey, the rabbit in the room.

    25. Arthur Marttin says:

      Your cartoon hits the nail on the head again Chris. It really wouldn’t have mattered what Derek MacKay came up with in his budget, it was going to be bbaaaaaaadddd!
      The opposition parties and their narrow minded Unionist / opportunist agendas could only see it through their own wee twisted prisms.
      I long for the day that we have opposition parties that oppose for the right reasons i.e. the good and wellbeing of all the people that live in this wonderful country of ours. We are currently being restrained and hindered from becoming the truly great country that we surely are, by a vile Westminster Unionist government that is holding on to us for it’s own selfish purposes.
      Indy is on it’s way. When the truth of Brexit is finally made clear, that will sharpen a lot of folks minds.

    26. Ghillie says:

      Ken 500 ‘Those who can do. Those who can’t join Unionist Parties’

      Ken = )

    27. ronnie anderson says:

      Nicola Sturgeon should take up Skittle’s she good at FMQs of knocking Unionist politicians doon,they’ll aw be ordering Broon Leather trousers tae hid the Shiters Skitter’s .

      Great toon Chris , you better ask the Rev fur mair page room fur your New Years compilation you’ve nae shortage of material.

    28. heedtracker says:

      Clowns to the left, jokers to the right: WoS RT. Fake news is hot, topic wise. Graun “opinion” thing

      From Sarah Smith’s “stop blaming Westminster now,” BBC blanket UK not fake news to,

      “Obama blamed media for the election outcome. That’s counterproductive The outgoing president is leaving a party in shambles. Sowing discord for the fourth estate on the eve of an anti-press presidency will only worsen things.

      “If fake news that’s being released by some foreign government is almost identical to reports that are being issued through partisan news venues, than it’s not surprising that that foreign propaganda will have a greater effect, because it doesn’t seem that farfetched for some of the things people are seeing from domestic propagandists,” the president said as his voice rose.”

    29. Gary45% says:

      Cracking cartoon Chris,
      Nice one.

    30. HandandShrimp says:

      Ruth would cut taxes for the comfortable and the rest would raise taxes for all including the low paid.

      There has to be balance and MacKay has done a reasonable job with a limited hand to play. It would be great to be able to afford to be radical but this is not the time and Holyrood does not have sufficient control.

      The bulk of the votes are in the middle path were the most good is achieved for the greatest number. However, that is incidental if your only tune is SNPbaaaad.

    31. John H. says:

      Very accurate Chris. I hadn’t realised that you were so good at drawing turkeys.

    32. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fran says: 17 December, 2016 at 7:59 am:

      “Burns night and they are out at Tesco buying their neeps n haggis.”

      While Robert Burns was Scot through and through he did not invent Burns Night celebrations because he wiz deid. The inventors were those exploiting Scots to sell Whisky, haggis and neeps & tatties. Not to mention the pub or hotel night out.

      “… At a wedding they are in their Highland dress. Any excuse and they are in a kilt.”

      Weddings by non-Highlanders do not require, “Highland Dress. In any case what now passes for Highland Dress was invented by Sir Walter Scott – a raving Yoon Loon.

      So again we have a situation where someone is exploiting Scots to sell highland dress, whisky, and , “Traditional”, wedding venues to gullible Scots.

      Even more laughable yet is how certain non-Scottish, usually entertainment ‘Celebs, spend fortunes on having a traditional Scots Wedding in some expensive picturesque Scottish venue.

      Now I don’t know, Fran, if you know the history of real and not the ersatz Highland dress. Here is a rather brief explanation.

      Although the kilt is claimed as Scottish national dress it began as no such thing as it was only worn in Highland regions. Lowlanders, (the majority of Scots), regarded the original Kilt as a “barbarous” form of dress. In fact lowlanders used the term, “redshanks”, for Highlanders.

      The original kilt was a very basic garment needing neither tailoring nor breeches. It was NOT even tartan but self coloured woven material, 2 yards wide by 4 to 6 yards in length. Variously either called, “The Breacan”, (Feileadh Bhreacain), or “Feileadh Mor”, (big kilt).

      To wear it the Highlander put his leather belt on the ground and placed the material lengthways over it. Then he plaited it in the middle, (to the wearer’s size), leaving a bit at each end to cover the front of his body and overlapping each other. Then by lying down on the belt, he would fold the two ends, (overlapping each other).

      The plaid was then firmly bound round his loins with the leathern belt so that the lower side, (shorter), fell down to the middle of the knee joint.

      The upper part was fastened on the left shoulder with a large brooch, or pin. The two ends hung down with that on the right side, (the longest bit) usually tucked under the belt.

      There are claims the short kilt was invented by an English iron foundry owner as the longer, big kilt, was a danger in the foundry environment. This is probably total bunk.

      The more modern short kilt was the invention of Walter Scott:-

      and tartan plaid cloth also came later when more commercial weaving allowed the multi-coloured tartan cloth to be manufactured.

      ” … It is a thing that I cant get my head around”

      Hopefully you now can, Fran. However, like much else, we Scots can turn the best efforts of anti-Scottish propaganda to our advantage. For example we independence supporters are proud to be called, what began as an attempt to denigrate us, as “Cybernats”.

      In effect we are genetically programmed to be, “conter”.

    33. Famous15 says:

      Stop blaming Westminster. They have untied the one arm behind your back,only tied the other arm and your legs and left plenty of wriggle room. That wee injection of Brexit up your jacksie will just keep your motions moving.

      Bloody Scotch whingers. England does not interfere with Scotland why do they try to interfere with us. Concerned,Milton Kynes.

    34. call me dave says:

      Excellent stuff.

      Faint praise from the shortbread pundits this morning on the not-reporting anything Scottish programme.

      Three mentions of the word ‘clever’ budget. All over in less than 2 minutes move along. 🙂

    35. galamcennalath says:

      Great cartoon.

      Would I be right in saying WM still control 80% of Scottish tax?

    36. ronnie anderson says:

      Yesterdays events at Court of Session, hope the link


    37. Scott says:

      Re Ruthie in hiding I have noticed quite a few times she is not wearing her ring that she was so keen to lets us know about maybe this is what is wrong??anyone know something.
      I wont get tired of watching brillo getting a doing from D Mackay Neil looked a very angry man all SNP should be doing the same to him.

    38. Fred says:

      London Scots, doncha just luv them!

    39. heedtracker says:

      Rancid old Graun Scotland region news,

      Buckfast locals back monks after criticism of drink’s links to violence
      Sales of tonic wine helped bring in £8.8m for abbey last year, some of which is spent on community projects

      UK news,


      Business News
      Brexit: Japanese banks tell Philip Hammond they will move UK jobs to Europe within half a year
      Firms including Nomura demand clarity in approach to withdrawl from union or they will begin relocating functions to Europe

    40. heedtracker says:

      Oops, sorry future Sir Severin of the Graun’s got some Scotland region news today,

      “Fishing communities’ Brexit hopes may be too high, peers say
      Lords committee says expectations about reducing access to British waters for foreign fleets may be unrealistic”

      Gee, wonder why their hopes were so high, Lord Fcukwit of Strath Scotlandshire.

    41. Dan Huil says:

      Sarah Smith demands to know why she’s no included in Chris’ cartoon! No excuses noo, Chris!

    42. Hamish100 says:


      Ruthies personal life is her own I think.

      Attack her policies, the tory selfishness. She maybe feels she has been upstaged as on BBC “Have I got News for You” the Tory place as taken by a handbag!! All because the tory planned to appear had criticized Mays £1000 leather troo’s!.

      The tories look after themselves but no criticism allowed by the brexit’s

      o/t Shereen N show on BBC no ordinary folk from Scotland Just the self appointed elite. I think as they chat about fish they think they are in the majority. Failed lib dems/ Tories

    43. Dr Jim says:

      But but, are we not Independent yet?
      I keep hearing them on the telly say we are, they talk about the British and Scottish fishing industry, they tell us about suff happening accross the UK and Scotland as well

      I’m just confused, some days we’re Independent and some days we’re spongers and other days they accuse us of meddling in UK affairs that are none of our business

      (I Dr Jim am calling for a complete and total shutdown of all “journalists” in our country being allowed to say or write anything and if you see one punch them in the face)

      If Donald Trump can say it so can I

    44. Davy says:

      Hah, its a picture of the four G’s ;

      Grunt, Groan, Greet and Grump.

      these names are of course interchangeable.

    45. heedtracker says:

      Fran says:
      17 December, 2016 at 7:59 am
      There is something I don’t understand about Scots unionist and I’m hoping one of you can explain to me.

      Why do they hate being Scots?

      Future PM BoJO published this when he was ed of Spectator, think its Horatio Nelson from Nairn now.

      BoJO says its “penned by the poet James Michie who Mr Johnson described as “one of the most distinguished poets…of the 20th century.”

      The Scotch – what a verminous race!
      Canny, pushy, chippy, they’re all over the place.
      Battening off us with false bonhomie;
      Polluting our stock, undermining our economy.
      Down with sandy hair and knobbly knees!
      Suppress the tartan dwarves and the Wee Frees!
      Ban the kilt, the skean-dhu and the sporran
      As provocatively, offensively foreign!
      It’s time Hadrian’s Wall was refortified
      To pen them in a ghetto on the other side.
      I would go further. The nation
      Deserves not merely isolation
      But comprehensive extermination.
      We must not flinch from a solution.
      (I await legal prosecution.)

      Have another buckie.

    46. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Have to agree, @ heedtracker says at 10:50 am

      It is becoming more apparent that the Yoon Fisherfolk have been led a merry dance by Bertie Armstrong, Chief executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation.

      They will be sold out to protect London and the Home Counties from Spain over Gibraltar and the like.

      But it will not be the fault of the lies told by the Brexiteers, Tories, Kippers nor will it be the fault of the BBC/MSM reporting these lies as facts.

      It will be the fault of the Fishing communities who’s expectations were too high.

      Saw this link posted online.

      Also Bertie has form in the ‘talk shite’ department

    47. Capella says:

      The Budget’s old news now – but will be future news when the opposition get the chance to vote it all down. MSM is already writing the script.
      It’s all Russia’s fault. Pundits on R Scotland said so. The President of Disneyland said so. Oh look over there – a squirrel, coming to steal your peanuts!

    48. ronnie anderson says:

      Posted on
      John Jack
      2 hrs
      Scottish Chamber Orchestra, in cohoots with some so called charity “IMPACT” Scotland. Have handed control of selecting the architect company to design Scotlands new 45m quid concert hall to be built in Edinburgh with tax payers money. TO A LONDON BASED COMPANY. Colander Associates LTD, which is owned by some Rupert bitch with the keys of London aparently.
      She has decided to advertise the architectural design competion in England only. For English only architect companies. NO surprise there then.
      Our Scottish architect companies knew nothing about it and were not consulted.
      Questions – who in the SCO decided to hand this to a LONDON company?
      – Who the hell are IMPACT?
      Are any Scottish companies going to be involved in the building of this new concert hall?
      – are any Scots going to be employed in the building of this new concert hall? And if not will the English contractors and employees be paying any tax to our government?
      To any Scottish nawbags reading this; are you still feeling ever so better together?.

      If this is true we’ll end up with another Holyrood & Trams fiasco & disrespectful to Scottish Architects & another building with ongoing high maintenance/management costs.

      Something for the Wings ferrets tae get their teeth intae metinks.

    49. Macart says:

      Oh, that is good. 😀 LOL

      Right on the button.

    50. handclapping says:

      Wishful thinking to portray Murdo with his trap shut! Still a great cartoon.

    51. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 17 December, 2016 at 10:32 am:

      “Would I be right in saying WM still control 80% of Scottish tax?”

      You are probably well underestimating the Westminster control and we will only really find out a bit of the truth upon ending the United Kingdom and thus finding out where the bodies are buried.

    52. Les Wilson says:

      Derek McKay,showed other SNP MSP’s just how to handle the Yoonland media tv. It is my hope that others will take things from this and
      up their game in a similar fashion. Call them out, ask what affiliations their sources have, rubbish their made up numbers by fact.

      Yes that would certainly help us who have no way to challenge them ourselves. Go get them!

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      “Lost in a lost world
      Some of them are living an illusion”

    54. ronnie anderson says:

      Birmingham Prison riots, birmingham prison riots on every news channel , questions not being asked Who’s picking up the BILL for the extra manpower to quell the riots .

      G4s have the Prison contract , will the TaxPayers have to pick up the Tab for extra cost’s . I seem to remember the had a contract for some Games event & failed to deliver on the contract. We might get the answer from Mrs May in one of her tender moments ( lol) when she rolls over in bed & ask’s her husband , who’s paying the Piper Peter/Pater or whatever she call’s him in those intimate moments .

      Sick bucket cleaned & disinfected ready to pass over, who’s next .

    55. Croompenstein says:

      LOL it must be the yoon creepshow office christmas party they are just waiting to be seated with their partners Dr No, Prof Tomkins, Colin Ripley and ‘here’s to you’ Phillip Robertson..

      And for Gods sake if the good Prof gets to leery on the mulled wine don’t tell him to ‘Go Home’ he will go all ‘Rita Hayworth’…

    56. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 17 December, 2016 at 10:37 am
      Yesterdays events at Court of Session, hope the linkworks:

      It doesn’t work Ronnie but _

      There! Sorted.

    57. heedtracker says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker says:
      17 December, 2016 at 11:10 am
      Have to agree, @ heedtracker says at 10:50 am

      What a difference a few months make in the UKOK zone. Today, Graun says stuff like,

      “The vote to leave the European Union and, with it, the common fisheries policy has raised expectations for the future of fisheries policy that may be hard to deliver,” peers said.”

      In June Graun was up on the Buchan coast campaigning hard for Leave and you’ll get all the fish you want, loyal trawlermen of our Scotland region,

      “EU referendum and Brexit
      Leaving EU could end ‘unfair’ French fishing quotas, says minister
      Brexit would allow Britain to renegotiate a more favourable share of catches, claims out campaigner George Eustice

      Britain would have an opportunity to upend fishing quotas that give a “disproportionately large” share of catches to France if it votes to leaves the EU, according to George Eustice, the pro-Brexit minister for farms, food and fisheries.

      In an interview with the Guardian, Eustice said”

      You can see why professional liars have such fun in their Scotland region, without even have to say the word Scotland.

    58. heedtracker says:

      “Scotland’s fishing industry welcomes decision to leave the EU
      EU departure offers a chance to banish past overfishing and incoherent regulation, says head of industry group, despite warnings exit could hurt fisheries”


    59. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s no chance Mackay will change taxation policy so Harvie and Rennie are whistling in the dark. But My feeling is there’s maybe £200 million up for grabs, and that’s what Harvey and Rennie should go for – extra spending on something close to their hearts.

      That’s the way it was done in the minority days, I just feel it’s more than the usual £50 million there.

    60. Legerwood says:

      ronnie anderson @ 11.12

      Awarding it to an English architect the day after an Edinburgh architect won the House of the Year award from RIBA for the house he designed and built in Edinburgh. Classy – not.

    61. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dan Huil says: 17 December, 2016 at 10:55 am:

      “Sarah Smith demands to know why she’s no included in Chris’ cartoon! No excuses noo, Chris!”

      Weel! Dan, Ablins wi micht tell yon cockapentie Ms Smith that naebody wha’s onybody kin bi earsed tae listen or watch muckle carnaptious wee numpties.

      Owersettin intil the Inglis :- Well! Dan, perhaps we might tell that snobbish Ms Smith that no one who is anyone can be bothered to listen or watch very cantankerous little fools.

    62. donnywho says:

      Ronnie Re the advertising of the SCO project. Does it not fall foul of EU law to not advertise on a pan European level?

    63. Fran says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      A hae a gid jist pally. Had my kids in Edinburgh last week and showed them Scotts monument. ” Who was he dad?” He wrote a lot of books and was more famous than JK in his time I told them, “Ooo” they said. He was also the biggest unionist of all time I told them. ” Boo” they said.

      And I also told them that just about everything they think is Scots tradition he invented. ” Is that why he got a big tower dad?” I said aye, cos in this union you get rewarded for betraying what belongs to the people.

      Good to see ye back on regularly Robert. DIY sorted and broad band to what it should be?

    64. Fran says:

      @ Heedtracker

      They can build their wall anytime they want. The only ghetto they will create is their own.

    65. Proud Cybernat says:


      The EU evidently would very much like resource-rich Scotland to remain part of the EU. They know there is little they can do to stop exit by England/Wales with N.I. being a big question mark.

      Now, if I were the EU wanting Scotland in and Enlgand out what do you do? You make sure that England’s EXIT is harder than mohs 10. The EU offer ‘Britain’ hee-haw upon leaving and they do it pronto i.e. as soon as A50 is triggered by May.

      The EU 27 make it as hard an exit as hard can be. By doing that the EU will effectively ensure that a ‘material change’ for Scotland has most definitely occurred which will allow Scotland’s First Minister to trigger IndyRef#2.

      In short, the trigger for IndyRef#2 is in the hands of the EU. And I am fairly certain they realise that. They have May/UK over a barrel.

    66. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Funny thing is though @ ronnie anderson says at 11:31 am

      “Birmingham Prison riots, birmingham prison riots on every news channel”.

      Aye it is all over the news but I see there are no calls for resignation of the Justice Secretary Elizabeth Truss or the Prisons Minister Sam Gyimah (who filibustered John Nicolson MPs Turing Bill) as there has been up here for Humza Yousaf over trains running late.

      Nor has there been any

      “May must answer over these riots” in the style that our own First Minister would be lambasted if this had happened in Scotland.

    67. Fran says:

      Sorry, a bit OT

      I confused a yoon earlier today. Asked them what was it to be British as I couldn’t understand.

      Monarchy = German
      National Anthem = French
      Country = Named by Italian
      National drink = Chinese
      Language = German dialect now heavily influenced with French and Latin

      So why are they so suspicious of ” Johnny Foreigner” ? To be “British” is to be foreign.

      Had a wee giggle with the look on their face

    68. Tam Jardine says:

      Robert Peffers

      Hi Robert- hope you are well. I enjoyed your post on the origins of the kilt and of course it is an invention in its modern form. As a lowlander from Dumfries I used to reject the kilt as something my ancestors would never have worn.

      I have since embraced it. I was convinced by an expat who largely agreed with me on the “invention” but gave me the foreign perspective- that there is no single other emblem of Scottishness that had the same power to impress and tell a story, however dubious about our origins.

      It is instantly recognisable and effective in expressing our cultural difference. If we were trying to create something that tells people from elsewhere in the world: ‘we are Scottish and Scotland is a distinctive entity’ you would struggle to come up with something better.

      Other countries would bite your hand off to have a national dress as interesting, as cool and smart as our kilt. even a short arse like me can look magnificent wearing my Modern Dress Jardine with Argyll jaicket, seal skin sporran etc.

      Ps just caught up on Derek Mackay interview- exactly what we need… professional, knowledgeable and giving no quarter. Attacking AN’s bias and reliance on slab press release.

      tweets from Neil last night a total embarrassment- still trying to fight on after he was beaten.

    69. Proud Cybernat says:

      To be ‘British’ is to be second class English. Broon claims he’s from North Britain. You ever heard May or any other English PM claim to hail from South Britain?

      Me neither.

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      That’s funny:-)

      Flag – made in China.
      Limousines – Germany, Japan or USA
      Tradespeople – Polish
      Medics – Indian or South African
      Typhoon Eurofighter – hulls made in Italy
      Missiles – USA
      Navy refuellers – South Korea

      Something like that.

    71. yesindyref2 says:

      British army and air force boots – Haix – made by a German company in Coratia.

    72. kininvie says:


      I’ll give you a serious reply from talking to voters on the doorstep (as most of us should be doing).

      The majority of No voters see no contradiction between being Scottish and being British. They regard the Union as a good thing, have no desire to see it end, and are content to ‘stick together’ even in the worst of times.

      There’s a second (slightly smaller) category who take an agnostic view. They look to what they perceive to be best for Scotland – and buy the argument about the UK market being more important than the EU etc. At the same time, they are happy to vote SNP to keep the pressure on WM, but don’t really see independence as any solution.

      There’s an (even smaller) number who buy right into the SNP = facist nationalism myth. These are largely conservative/UKIP/Loyalist voters who regard the SNP as a dangerous, left-wing, populist party. Scottishness or not doesn’t really come into their analysis. These are the ‘one-party-state’ Express readers.

      There’s also an interesting category (which doesn’t really belong in the above) of people with origins in some parts of the EU or the sub-continent whose parents or grandparents have direct experience of divided communities (either ethnic or religious)and who don’t wish to see similar divisions in the UK



    73. Gary45% says:

      Lets hope 2017 becomes the year of “looking Beyond The Headline”, time for the country to wake up.

    74. Gfaetheblock says:

      Could the same picture not be used with SNP types complaining about Westminster policies? Just shows how petty our politics has come

    75. Brian Powell says:


      As the majority under 60 support Independence the people you talk to must either be Tories or over 60. Possibly both.

      The division in their own countries group doesn’t ring true. The whole of Europe is made up of independent countries and not killing each other. So either they are blind or stupid.

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      I use that argument occasionally, and it seems to strike a chord with reasonable NO voters.

    77. Brian McHugh says:

      I have come to the conclusion that the Greens need to get rid of Harvey and his mini-me if they are to move forward.

    78. mike cassidy says:

      In today’s ‘I’ there is an article about the poor digital coverage in the UK.

      I quote

      Therefore the South East of England has disproportionately better mobile signals thanks to a proliferation of masts, compared with more remote areas, particularly Cornwall and Devon, Wales and Scotland.

      I suppose that makes us wingers pursuers of remote control.

      I can see why the author of the article is welcome here.

    79. dakk says:

      Gfaetheblock says:
      17 December, 2016 at 1:09 pm
      Could the same picture not be used with SNP types complaining about Westminster policies? Just shows how petty our politics has come

      Difference is we Scots are the colonized whereas you Britnat Westminster groupies are the colonisers.

      There will never be anything petty about complaining about governance by another country.

      You got that Uncle Jock ?

    80. Capella says:

      O/T – Foreign banks pay little or no tax on UK profits. EU regs mean they have to publish the figures – but not British banks and companies. They can still offset current profits with financial crash losses – which the taxpayer bailed them out of.

    81. Proud Cybernat says:


      Why are some Scots happy to be Unionists / Support the UK?

      o The UK provides Scots with a sense of friendship, camaraderie, and family-things that they are not receiving in Scotland.

      o Scots experience a kind of success in The UK; whereas, they experience failure at home.

      o There is nothing else to do; they have no hope and see no alternative but to stay with the UK.

      o Some Scots feel their survival may depend on joining the UK. They fear for their safety and believe that being in the UK gives them protection.

      o The UK is seen as an avenue to gain respect and money. Being in the UK can provide lucrative economic opportunities, status, and prestige–especially for younger Scots that do not believe they have employment opportunities, or who have no job skills.

      o Some young Scots grow up in families where parents and relatives are active Unionist members and joining the UK is part of family tradition.

      The above is from this article:

      I just changed a couple of words in the above text: ‘gang’ to ‘UK’ and the word ‘youths’ to ‘Scots’.

      So, now you know the ‘attraction’ of the UK to the ‘Proud Scot Buts’. Some cringe Scots probably feel all of the above and, as such, want to be in a bigger ‘gang’, one that affords them the respect and position they crave and never receive in the ‘wee gang’. The UK is the biggest ‘gang’ in the scheme and you’re something if you’re a part of it.

      I truly detest gang culture.

    82. frogesque says:

      @yesindyref2 12.00

      Willie Rennie has had a legitimate bee in his bunnett over mental health. It’s also subject fair close to me with a partner having bipolar.

      Investment in MH would pay dividends long term with less self medication (drugs/drink) and self harm. Many of the so called talking therapies along with prescribed and monitored medication do work but they take time, commitment and money to get right. Each condition and patient is different and sometimes a lot of work is required to get prescriptions and doses right. Needs can also change over time, what can appropriate at say 16 can be completely different by the time they reach their 60s. Continuity of service is vital to avoid regression and even innapropriate prison terms.

      I would fully support a fully funded program to take MH out of the poorhouse and if it brought the Libs on board to pass the budget that would be brilliant.

    83. manandboy says:


      Lying to the British government is a serious offence.
      Lying by the British government is a paltry offence.

      When is the Scottish Government going to take the British government to court for fraudulently interfering with IndyRef14 through lying on an industrial scale?

      “: Parliament home page > Parliamentary business > Publications and Records > Committee Publications > All Select Committee Publications > Commons Select Committees > Foreign Affairs > Foreign Affairs
      Session 2012-13

      HC 643 The foreign policy implications of and for a separate Scotland
      Graham Avery, Senior Member of St. Antony’s College, Oxford University, Senior Adviser at the European Policy Centre, Brussels, and Honorary Director-General of the European Commission

      1. The object of this note is to clarify the procedure by which, following a referendum in which the Scottish people vote in favour of independence, Scotland could become a member of the European Union. Although the note touches on wider issues such as the terms of Scotland’s membership and the attitude of the EU member states and institutions, it focuses on the question of the procedure for Scotland’s accession.”

    84. Graeme McCormick says:

      You’ve caught the Christmas cheer in their fizzogs !

    85. heedtracker says:

      Express is definitely getting worse. Savaged and brutalised are very disturbing journo stuff. Never seen this level of violent language before. The Jo Cox tragedy meant nothing to this bunch of raving nutters.

      “Nicola Sturgeon SAVAGED over budget and told: ‘Stop blaming the Tories’

      NICOLA STURGEON has been brutalised for blaming public service cuts on Westminster as the SNP unveiled its first budget under new tax powers.

      PUBLISHED: 05:26, Fri, Dec 16, 2016 | UPDATED: 07:14, Fri, Dec 16, 2016

      She met some strangers out shopping today. Dont know if the photo will repost.

    86. scottieDog says:

      “Why are some Scots happy to be Unionists / Support the UK?”

      Well I know amongst the older members of my family it’s I sense of ‘national’ identity. British identity that is.

      Other colleagues/acquaintances mention the economy. They have no understanding of modern fiat money (which is also true of most politicians and many economists)

    87. scottieDog says:

      Nicola Sturgeon SAVAGED over budget and told: ‘Stop blaming the Tories’

      As was said many times before on here, the increased tax powers were a trap.

    88. manandboy says:


      Nearly all governments use propaganda. Some have been engaging in propaganda for so long, they have become quite expert at it. A few have made it into an art form, in the dark arts category.
      In British eyes, the most notorious operators of propaganda are the German Nazi Party, the Soviet Union, and North Korea.
      But the United States surpasses these if only for its unbroken longevity and success.
      However, with more than 300 years of continuous propaganda waged against Scotland, Westminster is the undisputed propaganda capital of the world.

      Scotland is up to its neck in British Establishment propaganda, with over two million citizens completely brainwashed, while angrily denying it.

      Even some senior members of the SNP subscribe to Westminster’s lies.

    89. heedtracker says:

      scottieDog says:
      17 December, 2016 at 3:14 pm
      Nicola Sturgeon SAVAGED over budget and told: ‘Stop blaming the Tories’

      Yes but Express, Heil etc are clearly trying to incite violence in Scottish politics, using this kind of violent language and discourse. Dugdale’s in that Express thing too but there has got to be a cross party attempt to at least try and get the eds of these papers to ease off on it all.

    90. Bob Mack says:

      It really brings home that we endure nothing but constant moaning ,whining, and dissatisfaction from the other side. Nearly xmas as well. Nothing but ashes in their stocking I’m afraid. Ashes of the Union.

    91. CyberMidgie says:

      @frogesque 2:22 pm

      Mental health services probably could use more resources, as could most of the NHS. Unfortunately, everything is constrained by the Westminster fiscal straitjacket.

      During the first independence referendum campaign, I got into a conversation with a lady about audiology services in Scotland and England (I have personal experience of both). I basically told her that English NHS people were just as good as ours, but their audiology service was horrendously underfunded. Among other things, our NHS has been issuing hearing aids with more advanced technology than theirs for at least the last 15 years.

      She then told me that she wasn’t the slightest bit surprised to hear that, because she was a mental health nurse, and every time she went to England for a conference or a training course, her English counterparts were envious of all the extra options she had in Scotland, that they couldn’t get in England for lack of funding and lack of political interest.

      I therefore submit that the SNP are doing the best they can, under the limitations imposed by Westminster.

    92. manandboy says:

      It’s beginning to look like the order has been sent out by the Unionist Establishment SFA to all referees, that Sevco must keep on winning. Murdo and Adam T will be so pleased.
      (ps. Sevco is the name on their birth certificate. It was later changed, in a blatant thumbs to noses exercise, to trfc.)
      History will show the Ibrox EBT episode to be the warm-up to the main Unionist show of power in IndyRef14. WATP. The Law will never touch us.

    93. In your praise of eu you seem to have forgotten how many leaders etc spoke out against Scotland becoming a free country again I did not forget and voted to leave the eu is no friend of Scotland do not be fooled

    94. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Law will never touch us.

      That’s what they think. The Supreme Court case (brought by HM Revenue) was deferred in October because of the Craig White criminal trial.

      If Rangers, the SFA, UEFA, FIFA, Rangers fans are all claiming they are the same club as the one that went bust, then who does the debt belong to? The Supreme Court hearing, though postponed, will make a decision. Rangers should be careful who they wish to be.

    95. Clootie says:


      “A braw wee parcel”
      I liked that…captured it perfectly!

    96. Brian C says:

      An informed electorate is the key to real democracy,unfortunately there are organisation’s and individuals who promote a skewed version of the facts.
      Hopefully the Electorate will become more aware of their self serving duplicity before the next referendum.

    97. defo says:

      Further re. impact arts.

      Total staff costs £811 K
      Total income £1,595 k

      No employee on over £60 k (read top management middle class grubbers getting £59 k)

      Common Purpose lite

    98. Soooblime, Cairns,
      ‘Live free or die’, Scotland.
      There are now no other options.

    99. defo says:

      As Roy Walker was heard to say clootie, say what you see.
      Chris just keeps getting better.

    100. Valerie says:

      Great toon. Captures the yoon spirit of Christmas.

      @Blair Paterson

      What a short term, poor reason to vote Leave – spite.

      Of course it’s a political entity, and everything has changed entirely since 2014. The EU viewed Scotland via the lens of WM, they have since seen proof of the gaping differences between us and WM. Alyn Smith said they looked on Scotland with clear eyes, and growing respect, following the vote, and the way Nicola reassured students and EU nationals here. He received calls from other MEPs, offering support.

      We are in a new era. I support EU membership for the many benefits to our country.

      To slag the EU in the face of the facts, of the damage being done, and substantially more to come via Brexit, is ignoring common sense.

    101. Terry says:


      You are spot on. I’ve found the same thing canvassing too. The ones who bug me are the SNP no voters who see the SNP best representing Scotlands interests but still want to be in the union. WTF? Sometimes I feel the SNP should down tools and say “it’s Indy – or slab can run holyrood”. Risky and would never happen but would serve them right to have slab balls everything up and then it’d be “come back SNP and Indy – all is forgiven”.

      Sadly a late family member of mine of Irish origin voted SNP but voted no in Indy ref as he was scared it would lead to what happened in Ulster. If he had witnessed Brexit I’m sure he’d have changed to yes.

      We need to hammer home the uk and England in particular is dis functional. It’s a sinking ship. And we need to bale before it’s too late. In a way I’m delighted nuttall is leading ukip. Farage was smarmy but clever. Nuttall is stupid and on record as slagging scotland. The more ukip rises in England the more the countries will differ in sense of identity and no voters will move to yes – at least I hope so.

    102. Dr Jim says:

      Yet another controversial way of looking at it

      There’s and argument to say Ed Milliband might have won the general election had the right wing press not demonised the SNP so much in that election, so in fear of the horrible terrible Scots having a say in running the UK and Ed Millibands total incompetence the English voted Tory in enough numbers to get them over the line

      So if you go along with that argument the English are indeed racists because they couldn’t stand the idea of any Scottish co-operation in their English parliament

      And we know the second part’s true because Brexit for most English folk was about immigration and they shout it at us every other day from those same papers and their same Telly news that they want immigrants either out of England or stopped altogether from coming in to England and the very idea of Scotland having their own powers over immigration fills them with fear alarm and horror which also brings out the arrogance that somehow the nasty furriners would use Scotland as a back door to sneak into England, even though they openly state they don’t want any nasty furriners under any circumstances

      And every time Scottish Independence comes up in any shape or form they always start talking about borders or building Hadrians wall bigger
      Northern Ireland and the Republic are different because they’ve got a bit of water in between them and England so the English feel safer from those hordes

      Or are the English just the most gullible bunch of numpties who fall for everything the newspapers and Telly tell them

      Whichever of these arguments you go along with, there’s one consistant fact no matter the conclusion you reach
      The fate of any Union EU or UK can’t be left to the English, they’re just too unreliable so ………..

      Much better for the English if Scotland were Independent and maybe that’s the line we should be taking
      Scotland leaving the Union would benefit the English because they’d be financially better off and we’ll help pay for the border or the wall because if Scotland stays in the UK Jeremy Corbyn might win the next general election with the help of the SNP and the horrible Scots would have a say in Englands UK Parliament (the threat of “we’ll rule you next time”)
      Now I think that would be really much easier to sell than arguing fairness and equality because they clearly don’t like that idea

    103. Breeks says:

      @ Blair at 3:45

      I forget who it was, but I think it was Fiona Hyslop who was told by an EU counterpart that in 2014, Europe didn’t understand why Scotland wanted to leave the U.K. In 2016, now they do.

      That says enough, but I also suspect there was a degree to which Europe back in 2013/14 “bought” the U.K. propaganda that Scottish Nationalism was a brand of hate driven blood and soil far right Nationalism, and did not appreciate the civic and inclusive distinction of our progressive aspirations. Here too, I think Europe has been learning a lot since Brexit, and the standing ovation given to Alyn Smyth in the Brexit aftermath bears emotional testimony to that revelation.

      Furthermore however, all the hype about Europe in 2014 was hogwash, manipulated by the media and BBC, if not made up altogether. With respect, it seems you may be living proof of just how effective their twisted propaganda actually was.

    104. heedtracker says:

      So if you go along with that argument the English are indeed racists because they couldn’t stand the idea of any Scottish co-operation in their English parliament

      Its not racist as there no such thing as the Scottish race. They’re not stupid either. They know that losing control of Scotland will diminish England a lot, in a whole myriad of ways.

      And they knew that an SNP coalition UK gov would have meant Scotland actually being able to devolve itself out of this farce union and very quickly too.

      It all just shows how much of an historic shyste The Vow really was. But it’s likely just enough cringers up here suspected that too, just enough. People know stuff.

    105. Gfaetheblock says:

      @ Dakk 1.50pm

      ‘You got that Uncle Jock ?’

      Classy. Assume this is a Scottish version of the unpleasant ‘uncle tom’ racist slur? Are you a general racist or just against the sections of Scottish electorate that you are needing to convince if you want to win indyref2?

    106. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links for Oct/Nov 2012 now over on O/T.

    107. mike d says: jockanese wind talker . exactly if those prison riots had occurred at barlinnie,the Scottish media scum and the lying ebc would be screaming for Nicola sturgeons resignation. But not a peep for may’s . Dirty unionist scumbags.

    108. mike d says:

      3. 22 pm manandboy. Propaganda is to democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. Noam chomsky

    109. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fran says: 17 December, 2016 at 12:04 pm:

      ” … And I also told them that just about everything they think is Scots tradition he invented”.

      The thing that annoys me most about Sir Walter is that he had no need to invent Scottish traditions for we have more than enough genuine ones without inventing them.

      “Good to see ye back on regularly Robert. DIY sorted and broad band to what it should be?”

      The Broadband is great now and the re-wire with better quality cable made a surprisingly big gain in speed. However I still have some cables and sockets to install in the rear room I use as an office/sitting room. The DIY has ground to a halt just now. A supplier took the cash but has not delivered the goods — yet.

      If they think I will just shrug my shoulders and write it off as a loss they are about to get a surprise for Christmas. I’ll be reporting it to the police as either fraud or theft but also will take a leaf from the Rev Stu’s book and drag them through the small debt courts.

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 17 December, 2016 at 12:17 pm:

      “The EU evidently would very much like resource-rich Scotland to remain part of the EU. They know there is little they can do to stop exit by England/Wales with N.I. being a big question mark.”

      The EU has a ready answer that would chuck a whole herd of cats among the Brexit pigeons.

      They just needs tell Westminster that they recognise, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”, is exactly what, “The Treaty of Union”, that formed it describes it as – A bipartite agreement with the two, equally sovereign partner kingdoms.

      That as these two partner kingdoms have democratically voted to go in different directions in regard to Europe then the EU will recognise the democratic will of both sets of voters and Scotland will be the continuing member state and fare thee well The Kingdom of England.

      Of course this may just also result in Wales & NI. Clamouring to also get out but their case is not nearly so strong as both came into the Union as integral parts of the Kingdom of England and neither are legal partners in the United Kingdom.

    111. Fireproofjim says:

      Slightly Late
      I caught up with Derek Mackay giving Andrew Neil a hard time on Daily Politics.
      I owe him a big apology. I did not see him as a big beast in the SNP but the way he refuted all Neil’s anti-SNP questioning, refused to be bullied and got all his points across calmly and rationally was enormously impressive. I got the impression that Neil expected Derek would just roll over in the face of all the interruptions, but how wrong he was.
      He is a star in the making and another one in the large SNP galaxy..
      If you missed it it is good stuff.

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 17 December, 2016 at 12:31 pm:

      ” … It is instantly recognisable and effective in expressing our cultural difference. If we were trying to create something that tells people from elsewhere in the world: ‘we are Scottish and Scotland is a distinctive entity’ you would struggle to come up with something better.”

      We really have no need to express that we are different, Tam. Being from Dumfries you must be aware there is more difference between the two countries of Scotland and England than between any other two European neighbours.

      You can wander across many European borders and not even be aware you have crossed a border. These borders are blurred in regard to language custom and culture. Yet cross from Scotland into England and the differences in language, culture and outlook are immediately, and startlingly, obvious.

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, there’s £150 million for mental health over 5 years, but would be good to increase that. Maybe Rennie can use that to extract another £100 million – or more.

      Harvie’s more difficult, his complaints were more about taxation. But public sector workers capped at 1% while MSP are on 1.8% that’s a maybe. Apart from that all he mentioned was the voluntary sector. So he hasn’t givenn himself much negotiation room to get his support. Which is a bit daft.

      Yes, I underestimated Derek Macaky as well.

    114. One_Scot says:

      Fireproofjim, I have held off watching the Derek Mackay Andrew Neil clash as I have heard about it and I have a picture of how it went in my head and I am happy with that.

      But I know what you mean about Derek, but from what you and others have said it looks like he has not only grown into the shoes he was wearing, but now needs a bigger pair.

      Well done Derek.

    115. Great characterisations Chris but does Patrick Harvie deserve to be there?

      From what I have read he has been broadly supportive, while inevitably touting a more progressive line.

    116. yesindyref2 says:

      I see Andrew Neil is still cybernattering away with his faithful and short-sighted admirers, pining for a response from Derek Mackay who aleady seems to have forgotten he exists. Poor Andrew.

    117. scotspine says:

      Gfaetheblock is on twitter as the unwooableyoon or similar. He was previously known as wanderinulsterscot or similar.

      That tells you all you need to know.

    118. Gfaetheblock says:


      Pish. Gfaetheblock is on twitter as Gfaetheblock.

      BigGfaethebigG (or something like that) is to whom you refer and is not me.

      So not quite sure what we do know from your post above, but I think it says more about you than me.

    119. Robert Kerr says:

      I finally found time to watch the Andrew Neil clip.

      I didn’t realise until now how really truly nasty a specimen he is.

      What makes him hate everything? Including himself!

      That clip should be shown round the houses.

    120. One_Scot says:

      Robert Kerr, if you were to crawl through to lowest sewers in Scotland on hands and knees to find the most vile and disgusting material you could find, and mould them into a recognisable shape, it would be Andrew Neil.

    121. Tam Jardine says:

      Robert Peffers

      Aye Robert- but you try telling that to someone who has never been to let alone heard of Dumfries or Carlisle and has never experienced the different cultures, language or customs.

      Many through ignorance believe we are a region of the UK, or that the UK is another name for England or we are a region of England. That is the context of my post above.

    122. heedtracker says:

      New EU Headquarters, minus the second largest member. Its a long way from a rich nutcase like Farage.

    123. Still Positive. says:

      Just finished watching the John Pilger report on propaganda – worrying reading what the media is telling us.

    124. Still Positive at 11.20.

      Robert Fisk reinforces this message in an excoriating article in the Independent in which he nails the huge lie we are being fed on Syria(and have been fed for decade).

      In my eyes the BBC has abandoned all of its shrinking credibilty on the Syria situation. It is now just broadcasting absolutely disgusting American lies and inventions. I have never been too surprised by the BBC misreporting Scotland but I am absolutely appalled and angry at its coverage of Syria. I have some correspondence with Syrians in London. They are in a rage. As they admitted they are the lucky ones.They had the finances to run away overseas. Most of their countrymen and women have no such opportunity. And they make it very plain.They are not running away from Assad. They ran way from murderous non Syrian terrorists and mercenaries who had invaded from Turkey and taken control of large areas of Syria. And are using US equipment and armaments and paid by Saudi Arabia.The less well off Syrians have run TO Assad whose government had housed them,is feeding them,is supplying free medical aid and has provided continuous education for the children. I see an independent report has suggested that there were only 9000 left in Eastern Aleppo (and these are terrorists not “rebels”) with some hostages,not the hundreds of thousands we have been lied to about.

    125. Andrew Mclean says:

      Sorry but the assertion that Neil is a racist or a champion of bigotry is not on!

      No, he is less than that.

      And that is fuckng pitiful.

    126. manandboy says:

      The UK is in a bad place ; so also the USA, the Middle East, Russia, Central & South America, the EU, China & India.

      Are we all mad that we think this is all going to end well.

      Only the British think so, with Theresa May out front waving a miniature Union Jack, and proclaiming a glorious future for the Empire.

    127. Cadogan Enright says:

      before I forget, Labour in Scotland still have a ways to fall

      In the the by election in North Hakeham it was reported that Labour got less votes than members in that constituency.

      This is similar to Northern Ireland where they have 3000 members but got 1500 votes at the last elections across NI

    128. Capella says:

      @ Heedtracker – palatial premises for the EU in Brussels. And only €350m or so. Loved the gripe at the end from David Cameron about the cost. Tories will be apoplectic.

    129. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ Dave McEwan hill 11.58

      I cannot find the Robert Fisk article- have you a link?

    130. heedtracker says:


      Yes the €9,000 million our imperial masters are spending on Westminster does seem a tad extravagant, compared to the evil EU’s €350 million.

    131. call me dave says:

      Theresa May ‘obliged’ to study plan to keep Scotland in EU

    132. Chic McGregor says:

      OT Euan McColm unmasked as Brian Spanner. True?

    133. Chic McGregor says:

      Saw a claim on Facebook.

    134. call me dave says:

      A nod in the Lib-Dems direction?

      Extra £10m for mental health early intervention

    135. geeo says:

      Possibly THE least politically aware person in the Uk….I give you, Britney Williams of Milton Keynes

      “Nichola Sturgeon should stick to Scotland and not meddle and not interfere in Englands affair’s.She wouldnt like it if we were to meddle in what goes on in Scotland”
      Take a bow Britney, you are indeed special.

    136. Tackety Beets says:

      Chic M @ 1.38

      Yes I saw that a few days ago.I hoped for confirmation on here.

      EM as the vile Spanner ?

      Ref Syria.

      What really struck me was a documentary type program on RT a year or so back.

      Assad in room with Journalist types round the table taking turns asking a Q.
      Assad explained everything in great detail.
      He answered each journalist in their own language.

      He cam across IMHO as fair , clever & articulate.

      Certainly not the daft budgie / tyrant / idiot our MSM would have us believe.

      Of course maybe he is a V Good Actor too, we may never know.

    137. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Take a Bough? She should get an awhard for services to the oft-forgotten silent”H” and the aberrant apostrophe’s that pepper the interwheb.


    138. Marker Post says:

      From the Guardian article on Friday:

      “However, the majority of commercial fish stocks in UK waters are shared with other states, rendering continued cooperation with the EU and other neighbouring states crucial to the sustainability of those stocks.”

      Not quite what was sold to the fishing industry earlier in the year.

    139. Dr Jim says:

      House of Lords recommends Immigration be devolved to Northern Ireland plus no border between North and south

      No such recommendations for Scotland as we’re not a country and it might give us ideas
      Or in other more clear language England can’t afford for Scotland to be Independent because Scotlands actual and real GDP is almost double what they say it is

    140. Ken500 says:

      Renovations on Westminster are to take 40 years and cost £5.6Billion for 600 members (56million pop) + 56 who do not want to be there. (5million pop) The monarchy costs £400Million. They are suppose to be impartial but get involved in illegal wars and Referendums. The EU 750 members for 500 million pop. Less administration for less legislation. 10%? of Laws but worth every penny.

      The BBC is suppose to be impartial but employs biased Tories at £1/2Million a year an average of 2.5 hours programme’s a week, of propaganda, false statistics and lies. Lord Hall claims the BBC is not biased.

      The fishermen over fished the seas. Any Gov would have brought in conservation. The SNP (Richard Lochhead) negotiated a deal 18 months ago to use larger nets. That is why the Quotas are going up. No throw back or discards. It should have been done years ago. The Norwegians did. The Tory one man and his dog Armstrong does not represent the fishing community. Home ports have a 100 kilometres? exclusive radius under EU rules. More than traditional national limits. Scotland dies not have frigates to patrol it’s shores. Lose £20Billion on EU Trade, Grants and investment but gain £Millions? on fishing. With tariffs on price etc.

      The fish are sold to France and Spain for the best prices and the fish are processed by migrant workers. Scottish workers would rather work in the Oil & Gas industry for better pay and conditions than go to sea. Migrant workers are employed as well. The Tories lost thousands of Oil & Gas jobs by taxing the Oil sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. It is now 40% since Jan 2016.

      NI has always been a Law unto it’s self. UK Laws were not enforced. Apartheid was rife. NI (2 million) raises £28Billion and gets another £14Billion (50%) = £42Billion. Norwegian levels of funding.

      Scotland raises £54Billion and loses £20Billion a year to the Union because of Westminster gross mismanagement. Scotland has lost £Billions to Westminster secrecy and lies. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Borrowing and spending in London S/E. Scotland has to pick up the tab. Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident are all a total waste of money. There are better, cheaper alternatives. They will be redundant and obsolete before they are finished.

      Westminster Unionists have caused the migration crisis in the Middle East but plan to walk away taking no responsibility. The EU have to sort out the mess. The unelected Tories are trying to ruin the world economy.

    141. Another Union Dividend says:

      I am surprised that no SNP spokesperson has pointed out that Labour supported the Tory’s recent tax cut for the rich.

      Good stuff in Sunday Herald this morning on SNP plans on Single Market, hard up” Glasgow City council’s £17,000 junket to Cannes and Iain MacWhirter on why the SNP’s star shows no sign of falling.

    142. Chic McGregor says:

      Tackety Beets

      If it was there a few days ago then it must be speculation or we would have heard more about it by now, although the reference I saw on FB yesterday seemed like a definite statement.

    143. Nana says:


      Scotland says to unveil single market Brexit plan this week

      SNP Brexit minister says Scotland will stay in single market even if UK doesn’t after leaving the EU

      Brexit Effect On Fishing Industry ‘Will Still Require Access To Single Market’

    144. Al Dossary says:

      Northern Ireland has paid the price (in jobs) for the peace process.

      Harland & Wolff shipyard (of Titanic and Schiehallion to name but two of its builds) has not had a major contract since the 2 drill ships Paul B Lloyd jr and Jack Ryan were completed in 2001, and 2 RO-RO ferries for the Navy.

      Shorts aerospace has also lost a lot of jobs since.

      The British establishment has no qualms about casting aside their “Loyal subjects” once they are deemed as subservient.

      The UK government must indeed be worried, as it is only a matter of time before the republicans outnumber the loyalists in NI, and we could see the 9 counties drop to 3 or 4 in the near future.

    145. heedtracker says:

      Classic tory BBC Leave’s going to great propaganda this morn. Its going to be great, chillax.

      BBC Politics
      1 hr ·
      Australian High Commissioner to the UK, Alexander Downer, tells the BBC’s Sunday Politics that life outside the EU “can be pretty good”

    146. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      Scottish Secretary David Mundell said: “We’ll consider the Scottish Government’s proposals carefully.

      “I hope to see plans that are credible and backed up by evidence. I also hope they commit to working closely with us – in a Team UK approach – to get the best possible deal.”

      In the first instance it IS the SNP who want a “Team UK approach”, it’s Mundell and his Tory pals who seem Hell bent on a ‘Team England approach’.

      If the Tories don’t shift away from their ‘Team England approach’ then there will need to be a ‘Team Scotland approach’ running in parallel!

      With their ingrained sense of South British entitlement and exceptionalism, they just don’t seem to get it do they?

    147. Brian Powell says:


      Of course Australia has never been in the EU and the high Commissioner has no experience.

      And of course it’s the loss from leaving the EU that is going to whack the rUK, and the Brexiters should remember, preEU the UK was called the sick man of Europe.

    148. Brian Powell says:


      Mundell, the Irrelevant. He was told he will only be at the UK discussions when they think they need to tell him something.

    149. Hamish100 says:

      Mundell- “.I hope to see plans that are credible…”

      aye his boss says Brexit is Brexit– are you stupid!! brexit IS brexit!!!

      Plans that are credible!

      Is Mundell really this stupid?

    150. heedtracker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      18 December, 2016 at 9:53 am

      Nothing BBC vote tory bollox from New Zealand either. As soon as our tory master baiters joined the EU, all New Zealand trade deals, lamb, butter etc got the royal boot. Dont know what happened to the NZ farming industry after that, but, if it went well for them, BBC gimps will be telling us all about how life can be pretty good.

      Newcastle, OZ.

    151. heedtracker says:

      Graun says,

      Sajid Javid
      Sajid Javid proposes ‘British values oath’ in wake of Casey review of social integration
      Public office-holders should take oath on values such as democracy and equality, says communities secretary

      Where are those good old British values on which we’ve come to rely?

      I, state your name, take the oath of Britishness, promise to socially integrate Britishly, watch the BBC, vote tory, worship royals.

    152. Hamish100 says:

      Orwellian future in Brexit land

      All Public sector workers to take oath to uphold “British Values”. BBC, NHS , Local authorities!!

      “Pleb, I want you to take an oath for British values in your employment as part time – summer toilet attendant.” Answer “Naw, away you go you bileheid!”

      “BBC Employee, I want you to take an oath for British values in your employment as journalist/ head of bbc northland.” Answer “Yes pleeeese, can I lick your boots too?”

      ALL Parties in Scotland should fight against this imposition on our freedom. I am happy to say however that I believe in the sovereignty of the Scots People and Nation.

    153. Polscot says:

      To paraphrase Randi Lal, the Khasi of Kalabar:

      “That, Light of my Darkness, is Mundell, the British Governor, whose benevolent rule and wise guidance we could well do without. There is no mountain in all Scotland high enough from which to adequately show my contempt of him.”

    154. gerry parker says:

      Al at 9:22.

      6 counties currently in NI

    155. Robert Peffers says:

      @Tam Jardine says: 17 December, 2016 at 10:01 pm:

      “Aye Robert- but you try telling that to someone who has never been to let alone heard of Dumfries or Carlisle and has never experienced the different cultures, language or customs.”

      Oh! I do tell people that Tam. To understand let me explain a bit of my own background.

      My family have always been campers, caravanners, or motorhomers. Just after WWII by father, (a motor mechanic to trade), bought an accident damaged tailor’s Dress van. This was a converted vehicle with a purpose built high roof so that garments could be hung up. He reconverted it as a motorhome. This long before such as Bedford began producing the, “Dormobile”, or appearance of the, “Caravanette”, or the first appearance of the old, “Devon”, Hippywagon built on the VW van chassis.

      So as a family we did get around a bit. Beginning with just cycling and tenting. I’ve been to every area in the British Isles and even a bit further afield too. Our greatest delight was not just the topography or the historic sites but just wandering around and talking to the ordinary people.

      It is amazing the people you meet doing that. For example, after my late wife became disabled and confined to a wheelchair we were on a day trip to Peebles. We used to often visit such areas on day trips or weekends away. I’ve been if the, “Camping & Caravanning Club”, since I was a wee boy and was a member of the, “Youth Hostel Association”, until a few years ago.

      We all loved to meet people. We would just wander around and speak to anyone we met. On this occasion we spoke to an old lady pruning roses in her front garden. Both my wife and I were adept at getting people to tell us about themselves but without it seeming we were just being nosy.

      The whole family have always done volunteer work because we were all genuinely interested in people of all walks of life but all had a soft spot for the disadvantaged, disabled and destitute.

      It turned out this old lady had led a very interesting life. She had been a UK operative parachuted behind enemy lines during WWII. We later visited her at home for some years until she decided to move to a retirement home as she had become unable to live independently.

      We had many such friends throughout the UK. Mind you there was all sorts of people included and believe me, if you are really interested in people, every single one of them has interesting life stories to tell. Which is one reason my other interests included Audio, film and video recording and editing of the same.

      So, believe me that I can say, with some authority, there is a greater difference in culture across the Scottish/English Border than any other cross border line throughout Europe.

      It is quite startling that just crossing a river bridge can have such startling effects. You can almost physically feel a change without even speaking to someone.

    156. DerekM says:

      @ Al Dossary

      The important part is the younger generation in NI they have watched as the RoI have rebuilt their country and are not so quick to get dragged into the “which side are you on” rubbish their stupid parents were.

      This is a good sign and just like in Scotland the chains of sectarianism propagated by the westminster political parties to create division are eroding,these people on both sides of the divide are becoming a minority.

      Though certain interested parties would prefer the status quo as it is a call to divide.

      Maybe the youngsters of NI should create their own political party and sack all the duffers they have just now as that lot are the past and until they get rid of them they will continue to hear that old tune as bitter old men who cant forgive or forget spread their toxic views.

    157. mike d says:

      @al dossary . aye and they’ll struggle to get retired brits to go and settle there and dilute the vote of irish nationalists.

    158. Gary45% says:

      “Is Mundell really this stupid?”
      Mibbes Aye, Mibbes Aye.

    159. schrodingers cat says:

      Cadogan Enright

      do you have a link explaining whats happening in NI?

      also, wrt irish unification, what do the polls say?

    160. Nana says:

      Jolly boys outing to Cannes, hopefully not so jolly in May

    161. galamcennalath says:

      Lots of media reports on the imminent SG proposals to keep Scotland in the single market.

      Should be straightforward enough. The SG have their three level plan – UK is single market, if that fails then Scotland with more devolved powers in single market, and if that fails IndyRef2 and we make our own way in the world.

      Anybody seriously think the first two have a snowball’s chance?

    162. Effijy says:

      Sajid Javid proposes ‘British values oath’ in wake of Casey review of social integration
      Public office-holders should take oath on values such as democracy and equality, says communities secretary.

      Ah yes those old British (English) Values.

      If you are to read a little bit of History, we can look at their “Tolerances” i.e. when they sanctioned the Highland Clearances in Scotland, when they murdered Irish Republicans, American Wars and greed for Tea Taxes, Indian’s being clubbed to death when refusing to pay
      Westminster’s Salt Tax, how about using friendly Aboriginals for target practice, Maoris too, and Westminster excelled itself during the Boer War by giving diseased blankets to captured woman and children refusing to die from starvation.

      Ah Yes, Westminster Tolerance is all coming back to me know.

      Has anyone noticed the Sky News story that poor Misery May Might Have To change laws to remove the right to strike, with so many workers reduced to this gasp action?

      Mundel wants detail of the Scottish Governments EU policies
      This imbecile really beggars belief.

      His clueless fascist party has no Brexit strategy, and no will to discuss building one with the Scottish government.

    163. Effijy says:

      It’s been another busy week in Strasbourg, including the final address from Martin Schulz before he stands down as President of the European Parliament. He’s been decent, and it will be interesting to see how his successor does. One thing is for certain – whoever succeeds him will have their work cut out for them over the next few years.
      The big news this week though is that Alex Salmond has been in Brussels meeting with President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker. After their meeting he commented:

      “The President told me that Scotland had earned the right to be heard and listened to. Undoubtedly this is a result of the diplomatic efforts of the First Minister and her team.”

      This just shows how the discussions taking place on Scotland’s behalf are covering all the angles, and people are working hard to protect Scotland’s place in Europe.
      On a lighter note, you may be amused to note that, in the absence of a definition from Theresa May’s government, the Oxford English Dictionary editors have started work on a definition of Brexit! The link is below.
      As always, please do feel free to share this update and encourage people to register for more at, and I hope you continue to find these emails useful.
      Yours aye,
      David Davis announced that the Brexit ‘plan’ of the UK Government will not be published before February.
      Access to the single market is contingent on freedom of movement, according to Jens Weidmann, President of the German Federal Bank (in German).
      The House of Lords have published a couple of interesting reports on Brexit.
      Firstly, they have advocated that Northern Ireland should be given special status and maintain an open land border. They also argued that control over EU migration should be devolved to the Northern Irish Assembly. The FT undertook a good analysis of the main points:
      The full report is available here:
      Secondly, they produced a more wide ranging report on the options for UK trade. This assesses a number of potential options for the UK including:
      • the European Economic Area (EEA)
      • a customs union with the EU
      • a Free Trade Agreement (FTA)
      • trade based on World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.
      The full report is available here:

      Le Monde reported that UK universities have experienced a 9% drop in the number of applicants from the rest of the EU as they closed deadline applications for the next academic year (in French).
      Liberation interviewed the former UK diplomat who drafted Article 50 of the EU treaties. Lord John Kerr says the most interesting event to expect is UK Supreme Court’s response to Scotland’s position that Holyrood’s assent is required to activate Article 50.
      EU citizens should collect proof of living in UK, according to Helena Kennedy QC. The advise may be sensible but it is unacceptable that we have reached this position. Rest assured, I will continue to stand up for rights of European citizens in Scotland.
      “…hostility to migrants was rooted in nativism, not economics” according to the The Centre for European Reform.

      Alex Salmond met with the President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker.
      Nicola Sturgeon was included in Foreign Policy Magazine’s list of global thinkers for 2016.
      The Institute of International and European Affairs in Dublin have started to put together some thoughts on the political impact that Brexit will have on Ireland.
      Nadia Murad and Lamiya Aji Bashar have been awarded the Sakharov Prize by the European Parliament. They were abducted by militants in 2014 and forced into sex slavery, before escaping and becoming activists raising awareness of the abuses of Iraq’s Yazidi community. The Sakharov Prize honours those who defend human rights.
      and further information is available here:'s-award
      “The best relationship you can have with the EU is of course to be inside the EU, not outside. Since the UK is leaving, they will face a less good deal.” According to German MEP David McAllister.
      The Irish Central Bank has commented that a number of UK financial firms had visited Ireland on factfinding missions.

      Simply remaining in the Customs Union may not be the answer to the Brexit riddle according to the Centre of European Reform.

      Finally, we may not have a definition of Brexit from the UK Government, but those who make the dictionaries have to move faster. As the senior editor for the Oxford English Dictionary said “spare a thought for us lexicographers, having to decide what Brexit means before anybody else. But perhaps it should have been easy; after all, Brexit means Brexit.”

      Alyn Smith 1 Summerhall, TechCube, Edinburgh EH9 1PL, Scotland
      This email was sent to forbes [dot] johnstone [at] ntlworld [dot] com. To stop receiving emails, click here.
      You can also keep up with Alyn Smith on Twitter or Facebook.

    164. Ken500 says:

      How can a 350Million (pop) market replace a 450Million market (pop) with extra transport costs and tariff etc.

      India told May to take a hike. May was banning Indian students. India retaliated. Indian visas are now needed for going into Indian waters. The headlines in India. ‘They want our money but they do not us’. British banks sell pensions and financial products to an India (billion+ pop) market.

    165. Ken500 says:

      There is something not right about that Tomkins. 3rd rate reject.

      62% in Scotland voted to stay in the EU.

    166. Ken500 says:

      Oh it’s ‘Adam’. Brewer. Says it all. Evel.

    167. Jack Murphy says:

      Fireproofjim said at 8:46pm last night:
      “…… I got the impression that Neil expected Derek would just roll over in the face of all the interruptions, but how wrong he was.
      He is a star in the making and another one in the large SNP galaxy..
      If you missed it it is good stuff.”

      I think this is the TV interview where Andrew Neil, former Editor of the Scotsman and now part of the furnishings at BBC TV Headquarters questions the Scottish Finance Secretary on the Scottish Budget.
      Hope the link works. 🙂

    168. Ken500 says:

      Talk among yerselves Brewer is on.

    169. Robert Peffers says:

      @DerekM says: 18 December, 2016 at 10:49 am:

      ” … Maybe the youngsters of NI should create their own political party and sack all the duffers they have just now as that lot are the past and until they get rid of them they will continue to hear that old tune as bitter old men who cant forgive or forget spread their toxic views.”

      For goodness sake, DerekM, stop with your ageist mantra.

      If it were not for the older people who not only spent their entire lives fighting against such things there would not be any changes to the systems.

      For example we older SNP members were being persecuted way back ever since there was an SNP. Here’s an example for you:-

      “During WWII Donaldson’s home was raided by police,. They accused him, (and other other SNP members), of “subversive activities”. This was because of their support for, “The Scottish Neutrality League”. A person walked into MI5 and told the desk officer, (Richard Brooman-White), that if there was a Nazi invasion then Donaldson intended to set up a Vidkun Quisling style government. On nothing but that information, Donaldson was arrested under Defence Regulation 18B. First held at Kilmarnock Prison then in Barlinnie. He was held for six weeks.

      These papers by MI5, that led raids against Scottish nationalists, claimed there was, “subversive literature”, and a “large cache of weapons”, found in Donaldson’s house. These MI5 files, first released in 1994 after Donaldson’s death, were denied by his wife, Violet Donaldson, and by the SNP leaders at the time. Yet Donaldson was never charged and not a bit of evidence for the MI5 allegations has ever since been produced.

      Donaldson’s arrest was apparently entirely due to his campaign against the conscription of Scottish women to work in factories in England. In fact Donaldson was just a, “Political Prisoner”, of the Westminster Establishment.

      Donaldson remained an SNP member throughout the 1940s and 1950s, when the SNP were a weak political movement. The party’s nationalist efforts were being mainly directed to, “The Scottish Covenant”, of John MacCormick who had left the SNP in 1942. MacCormick was unable to get the SNP to suppor devolution instead of independence. Probably the split was more down to personality clashes with Donaldson than with ideological differences.

      In 1942, Donaldson became a leading SNP figure, along with McIntyre. Donaldson then stood as SNP candidate for Dundee at the 1945 GE but came only bottom of the poll with 7,775 votes.

      In 1948 Donaldson moved to Forfar to became editor of the Forfar Dispatch. He became politically active in local government in Angus. He was a member of Forfar Town Council from 1945 to 1968 as the town council’s treasurer. He was a member of Angus County Council from 1946 to 1955. and these jobs meant Donaldson was not greatly involved active in the general elections of 1950, 1951, and 1955. Then, in 1959 he fought the Kinross and Western Perthshire constituency.


      Now here’s the thing DerekM.

      If such as Donaldson had given up during the intervening years there would not have been an SNP party during those slim years and thus probably no basis for a YES movement today.

      Now let me also show you how that Donaldson persecution by Westminster and its minions is still being used by the more rabid Yoon Goons & Loons today. I kid you not :-

      So there you go, DerekM.

      There was never a NAZI link between the SNP and the NAZI party. Even less than with any of the Westminster Establishment parties of the time. All the Westminster Party leaders shook Hitler’s hand pre-war as it was still peacetime and diplomatic standards demand that shaking hands with your wartime prospective enemies is requires.

      Yet Westminster itself, and the monarchy of England, were awash with actual NAZI supporters. Everyone, Including:

      Arthur Neville Chamberlain, PC, FRS (18 March 1869 – 9 November 1940) was a British Conservative politician who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from May 1937 to May 1940.

      It may open your eyes to read this :-

      Remember also that the King of England who abdicated the throne was a NAZI sympathiser. This was the real reason he was forced to abdicate the throne. The propaganda was that it was because he wanted to marry a divorcee and a commoner was knocked on the head by the current Prince of Wales who is now married to a divorcee commoner.

      Like sex, that the you younger lot think you invented, we older seekers of independence for Scotland have been around a long, long time and, also like sex, if your contentions were actually true, none of you would be around now to have your daft ideas.

      The truth is that it is due to the tenacity of older independence supporters that the movement has succeeded in gathering the support of younger members and it is that success which is evident in the remainder of the unionists being from the older, but still unconverted, age groups.

      To put that another way, DerekM – Yer pittin yer cuddy afore the cairt.

      It is NOT simply because those yoons are older that they are yoons it is because the younger people have been won over and only older yoons remain.

      Honestly, DerekM, I’m much more ready to throw in the independence towel because of the constant denigration of we older Scots by such as you than I ever have been due to getting on for 70 years of yoon mantras and Westminster propaganda.

    170. Dr Ew says:

      That’s numberwang!

    171. Capella says:

      Following up some of Nana’s links, arrived at some myth busting media about the disastrous Middle East policies our Westminster Government pursues in our name. Using our taxes.

      This account by Canadian journalist, Eva Bartlett, is very blunt. She names the BBC and Guardian for blatant propaganda about Syria, particularly Aleppo.

      Western media lies about Syria exposed (Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett). 18 mins 34 secs

      Like WoS, the ability to criticise the cruel colonial agenda in the UK and USA is dependent on the Internet. An alternative Scottish media will have to be digital.

    172. Nana says:

      Mrs Smallaxe has left a message in off topic at 12.31 for those who enquired after Smallaxe.

      I’m sure we all wish him a speedy recovery.

    173. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      So we can now expect a ‘Rule Britannia’ version of “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” @ Effijy says at 11:23 am.

      The BritNats and Citrus Fruit Fans will be delighted.

      “from Sajid Javid proposes ‘British values oath’ in wake of Casey review of social integration”.

      Also lot of interesting stuff from you at 11:26 am @ Effijy.

      That’s my Sunday reading sorted, thanks. 🙂

    174. heedtracker says:

      Brewer going at it with my Slovene girlfriend BBC Scotland style, BBC England, BBC Sunday Politics, Ligger Neil, a Sun ligger, a nice lady, and the greatest thinker of the age, Ian Martin, exactly, who? Just another thick as shit tory.

      And that’s what BBC calls political balance. Ligger Neil wishes us all a very merry planet toryboy Xmas, from the not insanely tory corrupt BBC too. Nothing happening out here?

    175. gus1940 says:

      In spite of the fact that we all despise what the Daily Mail stands for and excretes over us daily have a look at today’s Mail on Sunday and the excellent article by Peter Hitchens re the reporting on the Siege of Aleppo.

    176. galamcennalath says:

      Nicola Sturgeon will call for a fundamental shift in the devolution settlement when she sets out the Scottish government’s proposals this week for keeping Scotland in the European single market.

      Alex Salmond, underlined this position in an interview on Sunday Politics Scotland, when he said that the options set out in the paper were: “One: keep the UK within the single marketplace; secondly if that’s not possible, keep Scotland within the single marketplace and if that doesn’t happen and the UK is unwilling to listen to Scotland’s representations, then it’s very likely there will be an independence referendum within the next two years.”

      This has been the consistent plan for the last six months! Clear, declared, and obvious.

      However, Yoonery genuinely seem surprised. Don’t they keep up with events!? Or, does their wishful thinking about their Union’s future make them deaf, blind, and stupid?

    177. gus1940 says:

      Ian Martin – one of the long line of ex-editors of The Scotsman – I think his reign was when Brillo was in charge under the loathesome Barclays.

      I understand that Brillo is currently along with his BBC interests The Barclays’ place man in charge of The Spectator.

      Has anybody noticed the number of Spectator journalists who appear on BBC political programs in particular those involving Brillo?

    178. heedtracker says:


      Its awful watching the Ligger induct newbie tory twerps. They have to though as Fraser Nelson can’t be on vote tory BBC all the time.

      One thing you can say positive about our freak out tory BBC stuffed with ferocious toryboys like the Ligger, Robinson etc, SNP have also raised their game too, as Derek Mackay showed last week, where Sir Andrew does occasionally deign to allow anyone not a tory on the BBC. And didn’t Andrew squeal like a little toryboy, all the way home.

    179. yesindyref2 says:

      So basically speaking the thing to do is have articles that are SNP Bad so the Labour and other supporters join in with glee, then have Labour Bad articles so the SNP and others join in with glee, ignore the Greens and LibDems, so you have a nicely divided opposition to the Tories, and the UK is safe.

      Print that, roll the presses.

      Job done.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      Was looking for the actual Sturgeon article in the Sunday Herald, no link from the main page, only one on the second opinion page you could easily miss. Funny that, main news article is the article ABOUT what she says, second is an attack on Labour spending a whopping £17,000 marketing Glasgow for £100 million of value to the economy at a very important event where London and Manchester have a full stand, probaby more cities in England, to try to attract inward investment and major corporations.

      Oh, that wicked Labour council, let’s divert the suckers attention from Sturgeon’s own article, and have them at Labour’s throats. Job done – again. Roll the credits, END.

    181. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.

      Your archive link above just has the first few lines, then the “Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet…” nonsense.

    182. K1 says:

      BDTT anent “Loret ipsum dolor sit amet…” nonsense’ from Herald article, this is something that I’m getting on all Herald articles irrespective of whether I have actually read any article on the site in the previous week or so, even when archived this seems to be a new ‘default’ to prevent sharing of article even with archive. Even after clearing cookies and history from browser, still the same shite. No idea how to remedy this 🙁

    183. yesindyref2 says:

      It has the full herald link in the “Saved from” box at the top. Yes, Herald doesn’t archive properly anymore.

    184. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.

      As K1 typed, you now have to log in to The Herald to read full articles but there’s a monthly limit.

    185. Opinionscherished says:

      Sorry to butt-in here, I normally wait for opinions to be voiced on the myriad of subjects (thanks to all for the variety of fascinating links) – but, so far, I have not seen a comment here on the draft referendum bill which is now open for consultation, I found it via SNP Twitter, link to, consultation.

      There have been previously voiced concerns over the way in which the votes were counted in the 2014 independence referendum, and I would be interested to know people’s thoughts on whether this new bill addresses any of those concerns.

    186. K1 says:

      Yes, not prepared to ‘log in’ to Herald, so they can just continue to lose even ‘casual’ readers wi this nonsense, in fact only time I read their articles is when posted on Wings, usually archived, but if archive isn’t now working for H articles…so be it.

    187. Al Dossary says:

      Sunday Herald et al – copy paste the link into an incognito window (chrome) or tab (firefox). Firefox especially is easy to clear all cookies etc.

    188. Robert Graham says:

      Capella thanks for the Syria link i hope its widely accessed ,
      it seems to have bypassed SNPs John Nicholson who on the Andrew Marr programme gave exactly the opposite view ,he seems to have gone native just to be liked by the BBC who are the main perpetrators of this Myth of moderate rebels .
      a bad show John please pay attention in future .

    189. heedtracker says:

      One way of handling the BBC. PIenaar’s Politics also went mental tory BBC style, on Scottish democracy 2014.

    190. Gary45% says:

      I will have a wee look at the Syria link when I get the chance, but my own personal opinion of the situation is, Assad is the democratically elected leader by his people, the west don’t like him therefore he must be some kind of despot, meanwhile the west interfered with Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, again despot rulers!?! according to the west, and look at the situation in those countries. They are trying every way to rule over Iran, they have given carte blanche to Israel to basically commit genocide in Palestine, yes I said genocide ( the evidence is there), so when I hear about the Syrian situation on the media, I normally switch off. I know that is not the attitude, but when the west interfere with the middle east they are not doing it in my name or for the good of the countries involved.
      The bottom line is, the west want Israel to control the entire middle east, but unwittingly it is Israel who control the west, so there is only one winner. (the evidence is there)

    191. Jock McDonnell says:

      2 things bugging me today – both due to poor media scrutiny

      1) Brexiteers trying to develop a narrtive that financial services might move to NY – Hello ! Last time I looked NY wasn’t in the EU.
      A few weeks ago they were saying: EU must be careful, they dont have the skills, the regulators, the experience to run a finance industry. Anyway, EU have nothing to lose and might gain something if the industry does leave London, NY or not.

      2) Separate deal for NI – well why might that be ? What is it that the politicians are frightened of ? Surely its not democracy is it ? Cos if it was they’d consider Scotland’s anti Brexit vote too, wouldn’t they ?

      Come on journos, do your job.

    192. Ken500 says:

      Access any news story by google or whatever. There will usually be 4 or more versions. They all copy. Reguritate.

    193. Breeks says:

      Capella @ 12:33

      That’s powerful testimony she is giving, but why is it in a room of a dozen people or so?

      There is something very sick and deeply troubling in our media here. The BBC talks utter bollocks about Scotland, utter bollocks about Europe, utter bollocks about Syria, utter bollocks about WMD’s in Iraq, and utter bollocks about the genicide and illegal occupations in Israel. It acts with total impunity in every deceitful and despicable thing it does while people are left deluded, misinformed, injured, displaced, orphaned, or killed as a direct consequence of the media’s poisonous narrative.

      We don’t just need an International War Crimes Tribunal, we need an International Media Crimes Tribunal, with similar powers of detention, and the BBC stood squarely in the dock.

    194. Ken500 says:

      Labour spend £Trillions on illegal wars and banking fraud. They are reported chanting for warmonger Blair and singing ‘things will only get better’. Not for them.

      No one is singing ‘will yet no come back again’. In fact the exact opposite.

      They are now complaining about railways. Fifty years of Labour.

    195. harry mcaye says:

      Gary45% – My thoughts too. Shouted at the telly when I heard Nicolson this morning. There is plenty of information out there exposing the White Helmets for what they really are. Not conspiracy stuff, hard proof.

    196. Ken500 says:

      A greeting faced multimillionaire BBC ‘journalist’ Tory who got a totally free Scottish education but expects others to pay. Hypocrite. Thatcherite who rejoiced in Scotland’s deprivation and poverty while Thatcher illegally and secretly took Scottish resources. Is still complaining.

    197. heedtracker says:

      Long way from tory owned BBC…how UK civil service, MI5, successive Con and Lab governments went about the business of stopping Scottish democracy. BBC Alba.

    198. Dan Huil says:

      The bbc is now just as bad as the newpapers. It lectures us all, especially us in Scotland, in what the bbc considers to be the right way to address the politics of today and, when the increasingly savvy public rejects the bbc’s opinions, it just repeats the same old britnat jargon but in a louder, more arrogant manner. The bbc cannot countenance anyone holding a different opinion of its tired old britnat mantras.

    199. heedtracker says:

      BBC Caesar! was meant to be BBC Alba.

      Brenda on the slide.

    200. heedtracker says:

      What the what?

      BBC Caesar! was meant to be BBC Caesar! was meant to be BBC A l b a.

    201. heedtracker says:

      Its a long way from the last Aussie PM, Abbot who said Scotland was no friend to freedom and democracy if we voted YES or something like that, 2014.

      Mr Turnbull, who led a failed republic bid in 1999 before entering politics, will speak at Sydney University on Saturday.

      Australia PM cautions on republic debate
      End of ‘Knightmare’ poses republican question

      Australia drops knight and dame titles

      ‘Australia can run its own show’

      The chairman of the Australian Republican Movement said the speech was an opportunity to reset the debate.

      “The majority of the public want it.

    202. heedtracker says:

      ‘Scotland can run its own show’ is a pretty catchy ref 2 slogan.

    203. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @ Robert Graham says at 3:33 pm re:the link provided by @ Capella.

      Interview and discussion with Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett been rolling on RT most of today.

      Seriously hammers Western MSM biased coverage and the views of the “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights in Coventry, England not on the ground in Syria”

    204. galamcennalath says:

      Jock McDonnell says:

      Separate deal for NI – well why might that be ? What is it that the politicians are frightened of ? Surely its not democracy is it ? Cos if it was they’d consider Scotland’s anti Brexit vote too, wouldn’t they ?

      Yes, they seem more willing to accept NI is different. Maybe the care less about ‘losing’ it? Maybe they think Indy won’t happen in Scotland?

      They probably do have a lot more to ‘lose’ with Scotland, and they know it. So it could be denial, or wishful thinking, or a tactic – pretend Scotland won’t leave their beloved Greater England.

    205. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links now over on O/T.

    206. scotspine says:

      @ galamcennelath & Jock

      It’s because they know that NI has the potential to turn into a bloodbath again if they fuck up there.

      In Scotland, folks are more subdued by the Union and its propagandists.

      Well, thats me on someones watchlist.

    207. Capella says:

      @ Robert Graham @ Breeks
      I don’t know why we are being lied to about Syria and the Middle East (and also Russia IMO). It may be that the arms industry, even war, is the last throw of the dice to get out of this recession. For that, you need enemies. Plus, they have oil.

      I’ve been listening to Prof. Richard Wolff’s lectures on Youtube – there’s plenty available. His insight into the collapse of capitalism is very interesting.

      Some journalists are very courageous and tell the truth as they find it. Unfortunately, they will never get air time on the BBC.

      I agree about the SNP and their seeming acceptance of the Syrian rebel agenda. I have no idea why they’re not better informed. There was a delegation at the SNP Conference in the Spring and they received a standing ovation. Not appropriate IMO. Perhaps they are bemused by the constant repetition of the anti Syrian message.

      The links were in the Hugh Mungus twitter stream that Nana linked to earlier:

    208. Nana says:


      I thought I had linked to the video last week, honestly can not recall if I did . Just checked and it is in my email so perhaps I just forgot. Memory not as sharp anymore!

    209. Greannach says:

      Murdo Fraser should have got a part in The Bling Ring on True Movies 2 last night. He seems to have gone from Politician With A Future to Celeb Twitter Babe in under 5 years. Achievement.

    210. Robert Kerr says:


      Careful man! If having caused violence gets a “special deal” ?

      Don’t go there!

      Don’t even think about it!

    211. Breeks says:

      Capella says:
      18 December, 2016 at 7:09 pm
      @ Robert Graham @ Breeks
      I don’t know why we are being lied to about Syria and the Middle East (and also Russia IMO). It may be that the arms industry, even war, is the last throw of the dice to get out of this recession. For that, you need enemies. Plus, they have oil.”

      I have an idea…

      From Wikileaks: (H Clinton).

      UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05794498 Date: 11/30/2015 RELEASE IN FULL The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad…

    212. Liz g says:

      Enough blood has been shed for this abomination of a Union…
      Not one drop more….We will get out , but we will out politick our way out.
      We have the most logical argument and are educated enough in the ways of the ruling class.
      They know and have always known that there are more of us than there are of them….So we need to be convinced that they should rule…Are you feeling convinced….No???
      So you see we don’t have to fight our way out ….We just have to leave..
      This is a TREATY nobody’s stuck with an agreement after they have stopped agreeing!
      So… Treaty no longer applicable??? Nae biddy needs to live by it??
      No War….No UDI….
      Just a TREATY which no longer carries the force of law , because it is no longer reconised as valid by one of it’s two signatories.

    213. mike d says:

      Scotspine has a point,why did Westminster impose a union flag on Scottish driving licences,when northern Ireland was exempt. Because they knew they would be stirring up a hornets nest,and they wouldn’t bend over and take it like we do.

    214. Liz g says:

      Mike d @ 8.27
      As I am sure there are plenty who will tell you of the history of politics in Ireland/N.Ireland that makes the Union Flag a provocation.
      Scotland is no there yet… It’s PROPAGANDA no provocation.
      There is a world of difference.
      Don’t rise to it… Doesn’t work anymore!!!who cares?… Really it’s a flag…If it means that much tae ye…. Knock yerself out.
      We have an International Treaty,that is now in dispute.
      That’s no my understanding of what went on in Ireland.

      Personally Flags..Em ..No fussed.
      But will indeed argue till the cows come home… Saltire much much prettier than the Union Flag!!

    215. Ken500 says:

      The NI Unionists vote with the Tories in Westminster. Sine Fein do not attend.

      The Partition of Ireland 1922. Lloyd George. A Liberal. The Balfour Declaration 1917. Russian Revolution 1917. 1WW 1914-18. Easter Rising 1916. Universal Suffrage 1928. Scotland could go through the Ballot Box. The Catholics in NI were denied the vote. In the 1960’s some Catholics in Belfast were still denied the vote. Bernadette Devlin. The Masons kept 90% of public jobs, housing etc. The Lodge and the handshakes etc. Winks and nods.

    216. Ken500 says:

      Supported by the British State. The Queen had to apologise. People were shot by M15/Army.

    217. willie fae kilwinning says:

      Well done Andy Murray – Sports Personality of the Year

    218. Ken500 says:

      The US – Kennedy etc supported Independence for Ireland but the US regime not support Independence for Scotland?

    219. mike d says:

      Liz g,i know Liz but still gets up my nose the way they treat us.

    220. GrahamB says:

      Well done Andy Murray, it would have been a travesty (or a fix) if he hadn’t been elected as the year’s outstanding sportsman – number one in the world not just GB.
      Let’s hope he resists the inevitable offfer of a knighthood or some further gong from the British F’n Empire.

    221. John H. says:

      mike d says
      “they wouldn’t bend over and take it like we do.”

      Speaking for myself mike, I have a saltire on my licence. 🙂

    222. Macart says:

      Well done Andy Murray.

      Though to see some of the tweets on Revs twitter …. Jings!

      Wondering how Scottish unionists square that circle.

      I forgot though, only the Scottish Government are responsible for the actions of every single person on twatter.

      Silly me. 🙄

    223. Liz g says:

      Mike d @ 9.10
      Aye Mike symbolism is important… Don’t mean to preach but don’t get hung up on the Westminster agenda of Flags and Adorations of Military…Shit.
      Think forward man…We can have all the Flags ye like..
      Everywhere if that’s what you want.
      But…Indy First…Eh?
      Don’t be like them!

    224. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – yes I’m sure Israel’s interests are important, they still occupy the Golan Heights where there is oil. More important maybe, their water comes from Golan.

      As the Hugh Mungus tweet above says, the former French Foreign Minister knew of war in Syria being planned in London long before it broke out.

      Gen. Wesley Clark has also said that plans for wars in the Middle East were drawn up in the USA by 2001.

      Probably part of the “Project for a New American Century”. No consultation obviously!

    225. stewartb says:

      O/T by why not at this time on a Sunday night?

      Just back from drinks at friends’ house and from a conversation with a guy I don’t really know, from NE England, who has been living with his family, and teaching, in Scotland – and therefore has a vote here. Seem like really nice people. Despite my wife’s best efforts – kick under the table etc., couldn’t resist picking up on a couple of things that came up to take an opportunity to talk politics! Fascinating what he and his wife shared:

      – sceptical in a general, vague kind of way about objectivity of media and BBC news/current affair output on a wide range of issues

      – proponents of Scottish indy are “selfish” – NE of England is also being screwed by Westminster

      – “took me some time to realise that most Scots are not anti-English but rather that many are anti-Westminster” – but so are many in the north east of England

      – small countries have economies that are too volatile – their good times are good but in the bad times its better to be part of something bigger: even out of the EU (they were I think remainers), being part of the big UK is still better/safer than living in a small indy Scotland. And anyway, other parts of the UK voted to remain e.g. London, so why should Scotland not just accept the ‘national’ majority for leave?

      – although acknowledging the economic and social positives about Norway, Denmark and other small, comparable countries today, “they were never in such a state as Scotland is now” and therefore the comparison is invalid – they can’t see how an independent Scotland could ever become like them given where it is now. Real sense here of the too poor, too stupid to make it work – better to stick with the crap we are familiar with rather than take a risk

      – the UK is a “big player” on the world stage and that’s a good, reassuring thing in an uncertain, dangerous world, even tho’ acknowledging, when challenged, that the UK is not always a force for good in the world!

      – and even, more chance of smaller countries failing because of “corruption” and policies that end up leading to more poverty (?) – and not confident that an indy Scotland would have the kind of people with the character or motivation to ensure these things can be avoided!

      At the end, whilst we disagreed on so much, the husband at least said he had ‘listened’ to my different points of view. Tonight brought home again to me that so many people are at best on the margins of so many issues – relatively uniformed, relatively uncritical of what the media feed them, and not just on issues around Scotland.

      (I have listened to the material someone linked to earlier re-the Canadian journalist talking about Syria – really troubling if even true in part. This, plus Craig Murray’s recent posts on Russia and its impact on the US elections, makes one wonder who – other than regular Wingers (!) – one can believe.)

    226. Capella says:

      Hi Nana – you posted the link to the Hugh Mungus twitter account at 9.18 am this morning. Thanks. Interesting tweets if a bit harrowing sometimes.

    227. I have just written to John Nicolson MP at expressing my absolute disgust at his compliance with the huge lie that is Syria and asked him to find out the truth

    228. Grouse Beater says:

      Stewartb: “Just back from drinks at friends’ house and from a conversation with a guy I don’t really know, from NE England.”

      Ah, the stupid argument ‘Scotland is only a region just like the north of England’.

      The colonial mind tells us England’s woes are first in line for fixing. They acknowledge the problem is Westminster but want Scotland to make the sacrifice, not them.

      Sadly for that guy, Westminster registered the UK with the UN as including two countries. Scotland is one.

      But well done for tackling him head on. I usually tell them “Tough! You’ve had over 300 years of sacrifice.”

    229. Valerie says:

      Agree it was disappointing to hear John Nicolson speak of the ‘bravery’ of the White Helmets. We will see how brave they can be in their upcoming Netflix debut.

      I don’t expect them to denounce this particular bunch of propaganda clowns, but they could skirt around it.

      As stated, much more stuff out there about this outfit, so at least it’s becoming better known. RT interviewed fleeing residents of Aleppo, just at random on the road. Quite a few said they took the jewellery they were wearing, and worse.

    230. Cadogan Enright at 12.40

      I can’t find the link but it is in the Independent page online
      “There is more than one truth in the terrible story of Aleppo”

    231. Nana says:


      I meant the Eva Bartlett video

      I had saved it for posting but think I might have forgotten.

      Fairly sure I posted this one a few months ago

      If not sorry.

    232. Capella says:

      @ Nana – I understand. No matter – it deserves posting again and let’s hope the SNP MPs wise up to the lies and deceptions. If they are going to speak out then I hope they are better informed. With all the resources at Westminster at their disposal they could do quite a lot to back peace.

    233. Cactus says:

      Come find me..


    234. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart: “Well done Andy Murray!

      Really no one to touch him this year, a truly great sportsman.

      I’m pleased as Punch to have seen him play his first Wimbledon game and pronounce him there are then a potential champion.

      To see some of the tweets on Revs twitter … Jings!

      Wiser not guiding readers to those tweets – confirmation some Brits need locked up for preaching hatred, in irons together with the politicians who motivate them.

    235. Cafogan Enright says:

      World is 5500 tears old

      We need to explain Tí climate change deniers that people once thought the earth was flat

    236. Cactus says:

      Aye, weel done Andy Murray..

      Scotland loves you.

      Love you all.

    237. Cactus says:

      And in an instance.. all wiz dark.


    238. Tam Jardine says:

      I marvelled at Nicola Sturgeon’s piece in the Herald- how months have been spent preparing the ground. It feels like we are gearing up for the coup de grace. Labour, Lib Dems and the tories up here must now choose. She is inviting slab to support, inviting lib dems to support and inviting the tories to support or rather daring them to oppose.

      And in doing so our First Minister is retaining the initiative and controlling the actions of her opponents. It will be impossible for Westminster to cede power to the extent they are being asked as we know from the Smith process through parliament. They do not have it in them and they don’t have the political nous to compromise.

      I cannot imagine more favourable circumstances to go into a new indyref than fresh from Westminster pissing all over the democratic will of the people of Scotland.

      Looking forward to a great week.

    239. stewartb says:

      Is this the truth about the White Helmets?

      How can I tell?

      Why is the BBC not informing me/educating me on what is really happening in the world? Why is it not even telling me there are different points of view on Syria? I’m ready to listen/read objective, high quality, investigative journalism – I thought I was paying for this? And do the listeners across the globe to the World Service still believe in the objective truth of the BBC?

    240. Chic McGregor says:

      Grouse Beater
      “Macart: “Well done Andy Murray!”

      Erm, how come they had the trophy out there in Dubai yet still asked people to phone in during the show?

      Is it just me or is this beyond bizarre even for the usual surreal World of BBC manipulation?

    241. Chic McGregor says:

      Ob. oops.
      The missus tells me it was Mo Farah who was in Dubai, Andy was in Miami. S
      Same point though.

    242. Capella says:

      @ stewartb – that account you linked to is consistent with what I’ve read and watched from various sources including an RT documentary. It suggests we should rethink our membership of NATO which looks like a warmongering alliance. Do we really want our resources to be squandered on illegal and destructive wars?

      @ Chic MacGregor – the BBC live tweets showed the tally of votes with Andy Murray way ahead with c 245,000 votes and the runner up with c 190,000. So safe bet maybe?

    243. Tackety Beets says:

      Chic M ,

      Excellent for Andy Murray .

      Didnae watch it Chic , TBF I would assume BBC had a few “copy” Trophies in situ ready to present.

      Out of the finalists there were probably a few not present ?

      IMHO , I’m still sad & disappointed Peter Nicol,from ABZ (World No 1 for 2 years ) never got much accolade.

      Whilst I’m at it I really felt the media etc under played “Andy Murray” (Another ABZ loon) a Doctor & long distance runner got little exposure before , during & after his run from John O Groats to Sahara , some 2659 miles, running over 30 miles a day for about 80 days.

      TBF to Beeb they do have him on occasionally in his prof capacity regarding “physical activity”

      Never mind unlike the BBC , I’m biased !

      Smiley face thing !

    244. Jim Graham says:

      Tackety Beets

      “I would assume BBC had a few “copy” Trophies in situ ready to present.”

      That is correct. The BBC say it is a replica.

      If you look closely at it you will see that it is broken at the point where the tripod section meets the camera and is held together with tape.

      Bet the replica sent to Mo Farah in Dubai was in pristine condition. I feel a conspiracy theory coming on.

    245. crazycat says:

      @ Capella

      You might find this interesting:

    246. Fireproofjim says:

      There are a few regular posters on Wings who claim to know exactly what is going on in Syria. I don’t, but I am not sure it is entirely the fault of the US and the UK as some claim.
      Syria is probably the worst nest of vipers ever. There are at least five Moslem religious sects, (all of whom think the others are heretics and worthy of death), then there are militias from Iran (a theological dictatorship), from Lebanon (failed Christian/Moslem state), from Kurdistan (a Moslem non-state with aspirations to independence), and Iraqi militias.
      Add to that the murderous Daesh and al Quaeda plus several dozen small anti-Assad groups.
      That is before you get to the main players – Assad’s Syrian Army, the Russian forces, the Turkish Army and airforce, the Iraqi Army, and the US. (The UK seems to be only in Iraq)
      The dreadful decision to invade Iraq by Bush and Blair on a false prospectus was a major factor in the current chaos in Syria, but people forget the immediate cause was the brutal suppression by Assad of a peaceful protest in Damascus during the so-called Arab Spring, which gave the chance for motley disaffected groups from Syria and Iraq to rise against Assad.
      The Assad regime, father and son, have form, as the UN estimated that more that 40,000 Sunnis were massacred when they rebelled in the1970s against the Governing regime who are minority Alawite Muslims.
      One thing is for sure – never muddle with regimes where religion is a major factor.

    247. Fireproofjim says:

      Trophy for Andy Murray
      No conspiracy. There were sixteen shortlisted sports people. Two were out of the country so two replicas were sent out and two personalities were standing by to present them after the results.
      It happened last year as well.
      I know! I know! I suspect everything the BBC do but this was kosher.

    248. Chic McGregor says:

      “@ Chic MacGregor – the BBC live tweets showed the tally of votes with Andy Murray way ahead with c 245,000 votes and the runner up with c 190,000. So safe bet maybe?”

      Haud on. They said ye cannae vote until all the candidates have been seen, right?

      Then they gave you the phone numbers.

      Then they gave the result.

      How could they get a trophy from London to Miami in less than two hours?

    249. Cactus says:

      @the people of Scotland.

      You’re fuckin’ amazing.. all of da time.

      Not long till next Sunday, hey-zeus!


    250. BJ says:

      The Scottish secretary, David Mundell, aka in our house as The Toad,

      “– and the right deal for the UK will be the right deal for Scotland”.

      Oh really??

    251. Cactus says:


      @all of the time.


    252. Breastplate says:

      “One thing is for sure – never muddle with regimes where religion is a major factor”.

      With America’s unsavoury history of meddling in the affairs of other countries, would you not agree that the Syria you’ve described is the ideal place to sow divisions if one needed to?

    253. Chic McGregor says:

      In answer to my own question, I’m guessing they sent trophies to Miami and Dubai (for Mo) on spec.

      I guess they’ll just put the returned one from Dubai into storage for next year’s awards.

      Conspiracy theory endeth.

    254. Cactus says:

      Love all the people.. all the time..

      Not one person excluded.

      That’s our 21st century Scotland.

    255. Artyhetty says:


      Ah sounds very familiar, my family and friends who have this view and attitude still live in NE england. I thought it came from watching english bbc, and reading english daily rags, but maybe it goes deeper than that. Always told when we were kids what a great country Scotland was, with it’s own culture, language and identity.

      Obviously this was unusual. I found and still find that people in the NE of england hold some contemptous emotions towards Scotland and the people of Scotland. I now say to them, why do you think your ‘region’ is still so poor, with cuts to services, so many unemployed etc, when you sent all those revenues to London from your major industries, coal, steel, shipping.

      The cogs turn, a bit and then I say why do you think Scotland, a country, should send all revenues to WM, but be kept poor when we have so many resources etc.

      Whatever, they are brainwashed into thinking Scotland is a region like theirs and that they subsidise Scotland. It is called divide and rule, been happening for 100s years.

    256. Cactus says:

      Jah man.

      Let’s get ready for our new year.. 2017.


    257. Robert Louis says:

      Mike D at 8 27pm,

      I have to say I agree with you regarding the flag thing on the driving license. It wasn’t there before, so the ONLY reason Westminster imposed it upon Scots was political.

      Make no mistake, flags ARE important, and it is too easy to just keep on assuming that no matter, peoples perception will never change, but it will.

      In some respects on a case by case basis, such things do seem trivial, but cumulatively, it is a gradual erosion of our culture, and the respect for OUR flag here in Scotland, the Saltire. Indeed ,Westminster actually said, the union jack was added to the license to strengthen ‘national unity’ – clearly meaning Englishness, so it is NOT a trivial matter.

      You can of course just cover the union jack up with a small piece of tape, or a suitable saltire sticker.

      We shouldn’t just let these things be. They need challenged all the time, or slowly, very slowly, there will be nothing left of our Scottish culture, history and traditions.

      Flags do matter. That is why countries have them. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. The union jack is a colonial flag in Scotland, with a bad history up here (especially in the highlands). I personally regard it as an insult to Scotland. It will never be my flag, and I don’t buy products that have it on them.

    258. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Fireproofjim @ 00:21,

      Well said there. A true nightmare where ultimately there are no winners, only losers. Not least ordinary folk.

      The thing is, though, I don’t understand why any of this (off-)topic keeps reappearing, and so frequently, on a website dedicated to Scottish independence. Every view expressed here about something very different from that worthy goal is just as likely to offend and discourage someone from supporting indy as it is to convince them. Not least the currently undecided whom we need to convince more than anyone.

      It’s not as though there is a lack of websites dedicated to discussing other issues, for those so inclined.

      So what is the point? Rather less self-indulgence and rather more focus on what we truly share would go a long way, I suggest.

    259. Cactus says:

      Especially for you..

      Ain’t talking about Kylie or Jason..

      Talkin’ about you Smallaxe..

      Read me back Mrs Smallaxe.. bonnie lassie.

      Love will find a way.

    260. defo says:


      Who benefits ? (Apart from, but not entirely unrelated to the capitalist elite.)
      Clue. Starts with a vowel, ends in a consonant. Big on bagels. 6 letters.

      “In the course of his speech delivered on October 3, 2007 General Clark, former Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO and a 2004 Democratic presidential candidate, highlighted that following the 9/11 the US has faced with a “foreign policy coup.”

      Clark told the conference about a classified memo received by the Pentagon’s officials from the Secretary of Defense’s Office soon after the beginning of the Afghani campaign in 2001 that said that the US army had to “attack and destroy governments in seven countries in five years” — particularly in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.”

      More than one way to skin a cat…

      When the body bags coming back from Iraq started to have to be hidden from public view, the strategy changed to the CIA inspired and funded ‘Arab Spring’ uprisings.

      “We came, we saw, he died” ringing any bells ?

      Same thing with Ukraine, only more successful than Syria.
      Who’s in power there now ? Neo-nazis and cleptocrats.

      WTF would an un-special relationship mean 😉

    261. Stoker says:

      Grouse Beater wrote:
      “Wiser not guiding readers to those tweets – confirmation some Brits need locked up for preaching hatred,”

      I also seen those tweets and they are hate speech, plain and simple, and that’s a criminal offence in all parts of the UK.

      Fireproofjim on 19 December, 2016 at 12:21 am:

      Good post and well said, especially:
      “..never muddle with regimes where religion is a major factor.”

      I once read a book on ‘Power’ which claimed that there are more premature deaths caused in the name of religion than all other causes added together. Sobering food for thought, eh!

    262. Cactus says:

      Blue, white & bleu..

      I could do that.. could you?

      Remember always thinkers, re the eu..

      BIG MOVES in small steps..

      To reiterate that three more important times..

      BIG MOVES in small steps
      BIG MOVES in small steps
      BIG MOVES in small steps

      Let’s be there (the EU) and see how we do..

      Think about it, thinkers

    263. Stoker says:

      Robert J. Sutherland on 19 December, 2016 at 1:12 am:

      Your very wise words will strike a chord with many of us and despite my only ever comment (i think?) on that particular subject to ‘Fireproofjim’ at 1:23am i fully appreciate and agree with where you are coming from. Well said!

      Goodnight troops!

    264. Breastplate says:

      Robert J. Sutherland,
      I’m very sorry to have offended your sensibilities but an independent Scotland will mean that the rUK will have circa 10% less ability to visit atrocities upon men, women and children in other countries around the globe.

      In that respect it has everything to do with Scottish politics and until Independence we’ll have no say in why or where Scottish soldiers die.

      I’ll understand if you don’t agree.

      Top tip, scroll on by things that are going to upset you.

    265. Cactus says:


    266. Liz g says:

      Robert Louis @ 1.11
      Can’t disagree with you my friend,and will always notice and comment on the Union Flag being shunted into a prominence it never had a few years back.

      But what I am pointing out is that there are some who can be induced to fight (I mean actually physically fight) over the what where and how a Flag is deployed.

      Westminster know this….
      They seem to regard it as one of the tools in their toolbox of devide and conquer.

      Sooo… I would caution that not to buy into that kind of minipulation is probably the best way to defuse their provocations.

      I avoid buying anything that has the Butcher’s Apron logo,and will take note/point out and object to it’s display.
      I am very well aware of what is being attempted by Westminster,but, will still say…. Don’t play their silly games!!
      It is such an obvious distraction,so much so , we, I think , need to actually start laughing at this feeble attempt to create an issue,that no one has ever really bothered about before.
      There only ever was one section of Scot’s who really thought that a flag mattered all that much.
      Leave them to it.
      We have a Country to restart!

    267. Capella says:

      @ crazycat 12.21 – very interesting report. Thanks for the link.

    268. heedtracker says:

      Whatever, they are brainwashed into thinking Scotland is a region like theirs and that they subsidise Scotland. It is called divide and rule, been happening for 100s years.”

      The Graun’s an awful example of that, nothing Scottish news, then an explosion of anti Scottish democracy Graun style 2013/14. Unless nothing ever happens in Scotland. Nice hols maybe.

    269. bjsalba says:

      @Capella 11:45PM

      Rethinking membership of NATO.

      It looks to me like the EU is already moving in that direction. Most European countries are not eager to get involved in foreign wars in the way the USA does – especially in the Middle East. I suspect that it is at least in part because the history religious wars in the Middle Ages and the Reformation Period make them wary of involvement.

      The refugee crisis forced them to set up a co-ordinated coastguard and border force. Plans for the EU Defence Force have been on the table for some time and are now going ahead. I think NATO will hang around for a while as an organization, but its influence will diminish over time especially in view of the new occupant of the White House.

    270. Nana says:

      Excellent piece by Macart

      Tycoon Gupta to invest millions in Highlands smelter

      Post Office staff join wave of strikes with five-day walkout

    271. Nana says:

      Brexit: Liam Fox ‘acting like a husband who wants to divorce his wife but keep all the assets’

      UK cluster bombs used in Yemen by Saudi Arabia, finds research

      Syrian Observatory says 10 evacuation buses leave villages

    272. Ken500 says:

      The NI Unionists vote with the Tories. Sine Fein do not appear.

      The Partition of Ireland 1922. Lloyd George. It led to to Civil War and the death of Michael Collins. The Balfour Agreement 1917. The Russian Revolution 1917. The 1WW 1914-18. Universal Suffrage 1928. Scotland could go through the Ballot Box.

      In parts of Belfast, until the 1960’s, the Catholics did not have the vote. Bernadette Devlin. The Masons had 90% of the public jobs, the Police, public housing etc. The handshake. Nods and winks etc. Supported by the British State who did not enforce the Law.

    273. Ken500 says:

      The US people do not want to get invoked in more illegal wars. That is why they voted for Trump. Trump has been speaking against the invasion of Iraq, the bankers etc since 2003. That is why the MSM try to vilify Trump. If Trump stops the illegal wars, he is doing the world a favour.

      In the case of the Menie Eatate the Greens and a handful of protestors. The MSM lied and lied and lied. They gave a totally one sided account of the events. Farcical. The Trump Organisation are good employers. The Development is an asset to the area, The three protestors are not considered to be credible but Nimbies. The houses would not be built near them. In the future the Development could be finished as invisaged To bring amenities to the area. Jobs and visitors etc. The road is being built that will make a difference.

    274. Macart says:

      Mornin’ Nana

      You’ll have me blushin’. 🙂

      Good selection to be getting on with and kettle on.

    275. Nana says:


      Paul should go on holiday more often!

      Couple more links

      Bloomberg article Scotland threatens to leave UK

      Alex Salmond says

    276. sensibledave says:

      Proud Cybernat

      2.14 – 17 December

      You Wrote: “I truly detest gang culture.”

      … your lack of self-awareness and unintended irony in that statement Cybie is just stunning!

    277. heedtracker says:

      … your lack of self-awareness and unintended irony in that statement Cybie is just stunning!

      Its the UKOK gang or nothing, sensibledave.

      Or is it the teamGBists Sensible?

      Your UKOK graffiti is everywhere now. Even on our driving licence:D

    278. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      19 December, 2016 at 9:04 am
      Proud Cybernat

      2.14 – 17 December

      You Wrote: “I truly detest gang culture.”

      UKOK graffiti’s even on the Morrisons filled doughnut boxes, what I picked up on the way in this UK morning Sensible, caramel, tasty, caramel sauce and union jacks, subliminal gang culture, aka Morrisons.

      Comes out the other end without that union jack though:D

    279. Chic McGregor says:

      Sorry didn’t read you post before my last.

      As you can see I figured it out myself.

      In mitigation, I had seen the Pointless episode where apparently ‘THE’ BBC Personality of the Year Trophy was exhibited, which led me to believe there was only one.

      But in retrospect, it is not like the league trophy, say, where a helicopter hovers at the midpoint between the contender’s grounds if it comes down to the last game of the season.

      While the BBCPOYA is not exactly tat, it does not look prohibitively expensive or craft constrained to have identical replicas for such a situation.

      See at 16:03 in

    280. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      19 December, 2016 at 9:04 am
      Proud Cybernat

      2.14 – 17 December

      You Wrote: “I truly detest gang culture.”

      This UK gang also plastering their UKOK graffiti all over Scotland, for Xmas.

      Oh my god, sensibledave, oh my Xmas god.

    281. Les Wilson says:

      ” British values” well we could have a field day with that, perhaps a an anti ” values” article debunking what are thought to be ” British” values.They are a myth, and probably always were.

      There is also a suggestion made that only those who do pledge allegiance to ” British values” would be able to hold high office.
      Wow, the dangers of that are frightening.
      A way for loonies to justify their actions without fear, by defending these dubious “Values”

      This is yet again an underhand way for the state to control everything and every one. Intern camps for those who do not sign a pledge?, where does this stop?
      Once started, the Nazi state will arise.

      We need to show exactly what the British state is, the rotten corruption that is paramount to the running of the state, it is riddled with corruption there is a myriad of other things that show how bad the state actually is, a lost cause.

      Deep examination of the state will expose what ” British values” really are. Never mind the rose coloured accolades of these supposed values, the United Kingdom, is rotten to the core.

    282. sensibledave says:


      … based upon your responses, you do not seem to be attempting to deny Cybie’s gang culture credentials – rather you seem to be justifying it by smearing everyone else?

      More specifically, you seem to infer that I am part of your UKOK gang?!?! On a point of fact, I have never voted on whether I want my country to be in the UK. Only the Scots have done that and so are the only home country that has specifically expressed a preference to be in the UK.

      Its the 55% of Scots that are your problem Heedy, not the rest of us. As I keep telling you, but your brain cannot compute it, most of us don’t care whether Scotland is in or out of the UK – but rather than understand that, you feel the need to have a pop at those that did not have a vote. Very odd – but you do it so much that I think you actually believe your own propaganda!

    283. Proud Cybernat says:

      Risible Dave

      “…… your lack of self-awareness and unintended irony in that statement Cybie is just stunning!”

      Away back tae the UKOKYABASS auld team, laddie. You need all the help that decrepit big bully gang can give you. Careful though–in yon big gangs like UKOKYABASS you tend to find that small fry like you are mostly expendable.

      Nudge, nudge. Winky, winky.

    284. Les Wilson says:

      Yet WE, cannot project the flag of our patron saint for one day.
      Propaganda IS the Weztminster agenda, are we blind?
      We should stay quiet? They can GTF.

      Be disgusted

    285. Stu Mac says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      The point is I think that it a clear case where we are not being told the truth about something that can affect us. (Refugees, our soldiers being sent to war, our politicians supporting killing of innocents). Thus if they would lie (or at least mislead) over something as serious as this why wouldn’t they lie to us over anything else – including the case for independence. Maybe one or two go one at too much length about it but I think it’s valid to bring it up and once brought up discussion will naturally follow.

    286. heedtracker says:

      Its the 55% of Scots that are your problem Heedy, not the rest of us. As I keep telling you, but your brain cannot compute it, most of us don’t care whether Scotland is in or out of the UK –

      Who is your “us” Sensible? “The rest of us” is very gang too.

      55% of Scots maybe but its really the whole of the UKOK tory gang elite, tory BBC led media, old and dying SLabour, assorted billionaires from JK Rowling to Ian Wood or the queen and her firm, Britnats like you sensibledave and your “I dont really care” bullshit, when it really drives you UKOK nuts with anger, at Scots that think Scotland is better run by the people of Scotland.

      “but your brain cannot compute it,” is fair enough though. Why some Scots think its fine to have another country run yours, does not compute. Check out for example the ongoing yoon rage at our £15bn black hole of NO for example.

      All of it run up by another country, invested and wasted in that country, and then we look at countries like Norway, or rather its really hard to look at countries like Norway, it hurts to look, from the bankrupted, debt wracked Scotland region of greater England.

    287. Breastplate says:

      FFS sensible,
      This 55% you speak of was another era.
      People have reassessed their position and moved on, this will be demonstrated in the next Indyref, suck it up.

    288. Artyhetty says:


      That pathetic, patronising message is just abuse really. It is meant to bully, but made to look to all Christmassy. Sinister indeed.

      Who paid for that I wonder. Scotland, forced into a dysfunctional union, kept in chains for over 300 years. It can’t be long now, people surely have had enough of the abuse and will go for independence even if aliens are planning a wee visit, according to unionists back in 2014.

      Rather that than the continuation of putting up with thieves and bullies from south of the border, telling Scotland to put up and shut up, to their own britnat financial gain on a massive scale.
      No thanks.

    289. Robert Peffers says:

      Laughable phone in on call You Kaye wi wan e’e this am.

      British values?

      There are no such things as, “British Values”, as there is no such country’s as Britain nor of Great Britain.

      There is no such thing as a Government of Britain and no such thing as a Government of Great Britain.

      The numpties talking about, “The Country”. don’t say which one of the eight countries of Britain they mean.

      The Butcher’s Apron is supposedly the flag of the United Kingdom but even that is a lie as there are only two Kingdoms that comprise the United Kingdom.

      Yet the government of that United Kingdom runs itself as the Government of the country of England. It legislates for the country of England under the country of England Law and it funds only the country of England directly as the United Kingdom with United Kingdom funds.

      It also divides the United Kingdom up along country lines instead of as kingdoms and devolves those English powers to only three of the four United Kingdom countries and then imposes EVEL upon the MPs of that, “United Kingdom”, Government to stop them voting upon what they claim are the country of England’s matters.

      The plain truth is exactly what The Secretary of State For Scotland announced on national TV when he said, (probably the only true thing he ever said):-

      “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.</i?

      These despicable people are die-hard YOONs and they are talking about ENGLISH values that are foreign values to the rest of the peoples of the Britain for, “Britain”, is neither the UK nor Great Britain. It is the whole of the British Isles – but they don’t want you to notice such things.

      Which is why they have a, “British Broadcasting Corporation”, as the, (so called), National Broadcaster of English Propaganda.

    290. Free Scotland says:

      I see the inappropriately-named sensibledave (one of his many aliases) is pestering us yet again.

      I’ve often wondered why he doesn’t just do something more useful with his life, like training for the international stone-skimming championships, or making recordings of himself farting during thunderstorms.

    291. Stu Mac says:

      I should have added to my previous post (no edit facility unfortunately) that the fact that the SNP have been calling for action from the UK government on Syria makes it an even more valid topic for discussion here.

      I appreciate the humanitarian worries that led to this but the calls from the SNP are to my mind to vague and in view of past actions of the UK government to try to get us militarily involved (or rather more than we already are) they ought to be very careful in what they support over this as the UK government is not to be trusted.

    292. Artyhetty says:

      Love the reverse psychology of britnats like sensible, the “don’t care” tactic of the typical bully.
      Good try, but once it’s at that stage, the days of the so called union are over.

      Most of us, care not one iota about about what the britnats want for Scotland, the past 300+ years have shown only too well how that has panned out. Bye bye.

    293. sensibledave says:

      Proud Cybernat 9:42 am

      “Away back tae the UKOKYABASS auld team, laddie. You need all the help that decrepit big bully gang can give you. Careful though–in yon big gangs like UKOKYABASS you tend to find that small fry like you are mostly expendable. Nudge, nudge. Winky, winky.”

      Ah, the irony continues Cybie! Because of your own gang mentality, you assume that everyone else is part of another gang and therefore the enemy. I can assure you Cybie I have no affiliations to any group, formal, or informal, of any kind or type. I am not a hack, a political activist or a member of any of any party. But you can’t cope with that can you Cybie?

      Ask yourself Cybie, why is it that you have to believe that I must be part of another “gang” – just because I may hold different views to your gang? Its paranoia Cybie, plain and simple – and that is your biggest problem. You make silly accusations based upon no facts whatsoever then wonder why people think you are bonkers. Then, because you feel that people don’t take you seriously (because they believe you are bonkers), that then satisfies and feeds your feelings that everyone is against you – and then round we go again.

      Lighten up Cybie!

    294. Flower of Scotland says:

      @Robert Peffers 10.32am

      I do love your comments Robert! They fair buck me up!

    295. defo says:

      Classic asshattery from self declared ‘sensible’ dave.

      Away and find some ‘British values’ for us to discuss.

      Gary Glitter has a gang you might want to join.

    296. Grouse Beater says:

      Fireproofjim: “There are a few regular posters on Wings who claim to know exactly what is going on in Syria. I don’t, but I am not sure it is entirely the fault of the US and the UK as some claim.”

      With respect, I know Stuart made a similar statement recently; but we all can study the history of Syria there for all to read and the reasons for Assad’s murderous obduracy, plus the USA and now Russia being there are on record. So is the origins of ISIS.

      As to ‘what is happening?’ – we know our newspapers won’t tell us that, just as none asked why the prisoners rioted in HMP Birmingham. Like Syrians, they’re a sub-class, so no need to concern ourselves with them.

    297. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:

      Hey sensible, do you think Scotland will be a better country when it does eventually become an autonomous nation state, like England?

      Re phrase: sensible, do you think England will be better off not giving Scotland so much free money? We have a whole raft of yoons all howling that England gives us each a couple of grand a year extra, out of love maybe.

    298. Breastplate says:

      Should Scotland be an independent country?

      This is a question I’ve asked you before on a few occasions that you have resisted answering.
      I don’t expect you to answer it this time either, everyone here knows how you would answer that including yourself.
      Not typing it out matters not a jot. It already colours every thought you vomit onto this blog.

      Not nailing your colours to the mast doesn’t make you appear neutral as you would like some people to believe but completely disingenuous.

    299. sensibledave says:

      defo 10.52

      … and you have the same problem Defo – although you manage to take it a step further and cross another line. Shame on you Defo.

    300. ScottishPsyche says:

      Riots in prisons in England due to overcrowding.’Something must be done to reduce prison populations’ says the Justice Secretary who is to address Ministers.

      Meanwhile in Scotland, spaces in prisons, record low crime rates. ‘Something must be done to lock up more people’ shrieks the Scottish Daily Mail…

    301. Eppy says:

      There’s a funny thing that happens in BBC land, and it happened again this morning. When the news on Radio 4 is along the lines of UK doing badly, eg strikes reported as the first headline and given a lot of coverage, Radio Scotland switches to problems in Syria and relegates the strikes to 5th or 6th place, and then only includes the post office. Is this assuming that the people of Scotland don’t fly?

      And yet again another FOI dredged up to make SNP look bad. Talk about shaping the news to fit the agenda.

    302. sensibledave says:

      Breastplate 11:01 am

      You wrote:

      “Should Scotland be an independent country?This is a question I’ve asked you before on a few occasions that you have resisted answering. I don’t expect you to answer it this time either, everyone here knows how you would answer that including yourself.Not typing it out matters not a jot. It already colours every thought you vomit onto this blog. Not nailing your colours to the mast doesn’t make you appear neutral as you would like some people to believe but completely disingenuous.”

      Oh dear Breastplate, I can see you struggle with the whole concept of democracy. I can only answer your question “Should Scotland be an independent country?” by replying – if that is what the majority of Scots want!

      Personally, I am ambivalent (as are most of my friends here in England). What is it with you? Is it that part of your desire for Independence is rooted in a desire to p**s off the English? Whilst you spend a lot of time worrying about these matters, I think I am right in saying that for most English folk, they don’t think about Scottish Independence from one month to the next.

      As I understand it, the Rev lives in England. Let’s ask him for an honest and fair appraisal of the situation?

    303. Fred says:

      Good Linx Nana! “Andy Murray hasn’t much of a personality” says Big Jessie, Gary Robertson, an absolute fanny who has all the personality of a shitey cloot.

    304. Chic McGregor says:

      Quite encouraging really. A baby step towards acknowledging their predilection for projection.

      The terrors which they imagine are characteristic of Scottish nationalism are simply manifestations and projections of the much more sinister beliefs of their own Brit Nat gang.

    305. sensibledave says:


      I’m assuming you are on your school holidays Defo? Did your primary school have a nativity play? Did you get typecast as the Ass?

    306. defo says:

      An asshat writes

      “As I understand it, the Rev lives in England. Let’s ask him for an honest and fair appraisal of the situation?”

      It’s a wild guess, but the blog owner will probably back up my diagnosis.

    307. Macart says:

      Worth checking out some of Nana’s link from this morning. There are more than one or two to put a smile on your face. 😉

    308. Grouse Beater says:

      SensibleDave: “I can only answer your question “Should Scotland be an independent country?” by replying – if that is what the majority of Scots want!”

      In which case, take your own advice, stop using this site to talk about yourself and go get a life, you tedious oik.

    309. defo says:


    310. frogesque says:

      Whatever anyone thinks of the situation in Syria and the blame games, today’s front page on the National is one hell of a powerful image.

      The National has run some fantastic front pages during the year and must surely be up for an award somewhere.

    311. Bill Dale says:

      “British” values – aye right, that would be:

      Politeness, aka silver tongued deceit, viz. smiling while agreeing verbally, but doing the opposite;

      Protecting free speech (as long as it reinforces the establishment viewpoint);

      Fair play (what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine);

      Abiding by the law (unless you are in the elite then anything goes, Jimmy Saville et al anyone?)

      Helping the poor and disadvantaged (especially if they live in palaces, but not so much if they have been sanctioned for missing an appointment at the job centre because they were attending a job interview);

      Punching above our weight in international affairs (that would be taking part in illegal wars and arming war criminals to benefit the arms trade, as well as building offensive weapons such as aircraft carriers, with or without aircraft to fly from them);

      Speaking English (to the exclusion of all other “inferior” languages, such as French, German, Scots and especially Gaelic).

      To coin a phrase, No Thanks! I’ll stick with honesty, integrity and compassion, despite their diametric opposition to “British” values.

    312. defo says:

      Can I add this to those ‘British values’ Bill.

      101 yr old pays the price, but Lord Teflon Graville gets protected, and slink off scot free.

      In England’s green and pleasant land.

    313. Proud Cybernat says:

      Risible Dave

      “Lighten up Cybie!”

      Did I touch a nerve there, Risible?

      Nudge, nudge. Winky, winky. (Stop sniggering at the back).

    314. heraldnomore says:

      Aw, missed Kwi’anE, off listening to India’s batsmen putting the old colonial masters to the sword, or as some may say, playing with British Values… It’ll be 4-0 tomorrow.

    315. manandboy says:

      After 6 months of saying and doing virtually nothing since the EU referendum on June 23rd, its beginning to look like a strategy by Westminster, to force the Remainers, including in Scotland, into frustrating inactivity and thereby to drain their energy and enthusiasm while encouraging division through infighting.

      The Empire has a lot of experience in such tactics, while Scotland apparently has very little.

    316. sandycraig says:

      My question to sensible would be, when Scotland becomes independent, would you not be a wee bit worried about where all the money you need to run your own country will come from, considering you will have to pay for Trident on your own, your oil and gas income will be drastically reduced, the taxes generated in Scotland by thousands of businesses will not be going south, the costs of Westminster and the Lords all to be run by reduced funds, and a thousand other projects in the south east which do not benefit anybody north of Birmingham, all to be funded by your own money and not the taxes of another country?

    317. sensibledave says:

      Bill Dale 11.43

      I think you are very sad and confused Bill.

      You wrote: “To coin a phrase, No Thanks! I’ll stick with honesty, integrity and compassion, despite their diametric opposition to “British” values.”

      I think your phrase “honesty, integrity and compassion” is a fair description of the values of the vast majority of people in all parts of the UK whether that is Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

      May I recommend to you a program on Channel 4 called “Gogglebox”. Not because of what the series is about, but because of the members of the general public that appear in it. In my experience, those members of the public represent a pretty decent cross section of our society and the vast majority of people I know. They are interesting, funny, compassionate, tolerant, insightful and honest.

      Most people are “good people” Bill.

      You appear to want to pick out the “bad uns” and then suggest that they typify our British values. By all means go after those that deserve criticism but please don’t project the bad apples as being representative of a whole people.

      I would suggest that positive values like democracy, the rule of law, religious and political freedom are typical British Values that we almost take for granted. It may not be perfect but I can’t think of many places in the world that have have got it better. Can you?

    318. sensibledave says:

      Proud Cybernat 11:58 am

      You wrote “Did I touch a nerve there, Risible? Nudge, nudge. Winky, winky. (Stop sniggering at the back).”

      … er, no, it just showed you up for the t*t you are!

    319. ronnie anderson says:

      By Peter Toner.
      I’ve reworked this one to make it fit in with the theme of the page and updated those involved.
      A pretty little girl named Annie was sitting on the pavement in front of her home.Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.
      Suddenly a line of big cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped two grinning women.
      “Hi there little girl, I’m Kezia Dugdale and this is Ruth Davidson.” Kezia said.
      What do you have in the basket?” asked Ruth.
      “Kittens,” little Annie said.
      “How old are they?” asked Kezia.
      Annie replied, “They’re so young, their eyes aren’t even open yet.”
      “And what kind of kittens are they?”
      “They’re unionists,” answered Annie with a sweet smile.
      The women were delighted. As soon as they returned to their car, they called their PR chiefs and told them about the little girl and the kittens. Recognizing the perfect photo op, they all agreed that they should return the next day and, in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.
      So the next day, Annie was again on the pavement with her basket of “FREE KITTENS” when a motorcade pulled up; this time it included vans from BBC, ITV, ABC, CNN and Sky News . Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up and the women got out of their limo and walked over to little Annie.
      “Hello, again,” they said, “We’d love it if you would tell all our friends out there what kind of kittens you’re giving away.”
      “Yes,” Annie said. “They’re Independence supporters.”
      Taken by surprise, Kezia stammered, “But…but…yesterday, you told us they were unionists.”
      Little Annie smiled and said, “I know. But today, they have their eyes open.”

    320. defo says:

      Try some vaseline asshat, that can’t be good for your posture.

    321. Bill Dale says:

      Don’t feed the troll! 😉

    322. heedtracker says:

      May I recommend to you a program on Channel 4 called “Gogglebox”.

      Its awful. And how come there’s no Scots on the show? It makes you feel that humanity has become this enormous blob of couch potatoes, and I dont mean those on the couch, its the dead from the neck up UK tv corps.

    323. Grouse Beater says:

      As SensibleDave is intent on answering every and all posts with personal insult and ridicule diverting discussion and topic – happily given lots of opportunities to talk about himself – I suggest readers complain to Stuart rather than encouraging the oik to write more self-promoting guff.

    324. Les Wilson says:

      Chic McGregor says:

      You are of course right Chic but the blind won’t see.
      As far as I am concerned, it gets right up my nose.

    325. ronnie anderson says:

      Cmon noo Wingers that not so Sensible Dave is like ah wind up clock. Winding You’s up, switch his alarm aff & hiv a peaceful christmas.

      btw he doesn’t watch Googlebox or he would know ,they’re ignorant of politics & especially Scottish Politics.

    326. Proud Cybernat says:

      Risible Dave

      “… er, no, it just showed you up for the t*t you are!”

      Ah, the mask slips, eh Risible!?

      Toddle along now…

    327. ronnie anderson says:

      @ GrouseBeater
      He thinks he has a good relationship with Stu because Stu answered his comment but your right why give him & the other Trolls oxygen.

    328. heedtracker says:

      ronnie anderson says:
      19 December, 2016 at 12:29 pm
      Cmon noo Wingers that not so Sensible Dave is like ah wind up clock. Winding You’s up, switch his alarm aff & hiv a peaceful christmas.

      Awe! Please can we keep him?

      Yes we know a yoon troll is not just for Christmas, but he’s cute, and we’ll feed him and exercise him and clean out his cage everyday, pleeeeeease?!

      And then you’ll end up doing it Ron:D

    329. Flower of Scotland says:

      Wingers. Why can’t you just ignore Sensible Dave?

      Just cut off the oxygen and he will disappear.

    330. clipper says:

      Ronnie Anderson/Peter Toner

      Nice one!

    331. sensibledave says:

      Grouse Beater 12:21 pm

      Ah, me old mucker Grousey pipes up with his usual nonsensical, irrational, one eyed view on life that I have missed so much.

      Stupid Cybie, as part of their well thought out, reasoned and logical debating style called me, in effect a “paedo”. So calling them a t*t in response is fair game methinks.

      I always take it as win when people don’t respond to the points I make and resort to silly playground name calling (or, as in your case, “telling teacher” that I am “bad”).

      Grow up and Grow a pair Grousey!

    332. Bill McLean says:

      Sensible Dave – Scotland is moving on. May I politely suggest that you do as well?

    333. Stu Mac says:

      @Les Wilson

      Thing about British values. As former Federalist now Indy supporter, I have and still to some extent feel “British”, at least culturally, but the things I would list that I feel connected to would be very different to those others would list. For instance literature, art and music from all the parts of Britain, tradition of liberalism (with small “l”) and the various great people who fought for the vote, equal rights and education and health care for all.

      Others would probably list Loyalty to the crown and government, militarism (not that they’d put it that way), a feeling of superiority, an “I’m all right Jack” mentality combined with a scorn for those in need of help and support. The latter is I suspect the kind of British values the government would like to promote. Actually it already does but is talking about enforcing it now, not just promoting it, for making people take loyalty oaths is a kind of enforcement.

    334. Jack Murphy says:

      Nana said at 7:37am:-

      This one is extremely troubling as it exposes the BBC in Scotland for what it is—either incompetent or—–

      Short quote from the full article:-
      “………….BBC Scotland was passing off a personal blog as an ‘independent report’. As if that wasn’t bad enough what I then discovered was even worse. Torsten Bell had been, until very recently, a senior figure in the Labour party.

      Until the 2010 General Election Torsten Bell worked for Alistair Darling as a member of the Council of Economic Advisers in HM Treasury. He later became Ed Miliband’s policy director and played a significant role on Labour’s 2015 general election campaign…….”

      It is,I believe close to the Make Yer Mind Up Time about the BBC in Scotland.
      Many have.

    335. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 19 December, 2016 at 10:43 am:

      ” … I can assure you Cybie I have no affiliations to any group, formal, or informal, of any kind or type.”

      Err! Err!

      Excuse me for butting into your wee private slanging match, Oh! Sensible one, but I would be willing to speculate that at least 99.999% of the Wings commenters and around 97.999% of Wings readers, (including the alert ones), would have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that you are a Britnat, a predominately Tory voter and an English Nationalist.

      Probable educated in the English public schools system, (that last one is a tiny bit iffy), as your education seems slightly more lacking than that usually observed in such poorly schooled people.

      However, keep up the good work — (for the cause of Scottish independence) — Every time such as you posts your Britnat Bovine, rectally sphinctered, waste matter another Cybernat get their wings.

    336. sensibledave says:

      Stu Mac at 2.19

      … you were doing Ok in your first paragraph – reasonable and thoughtful. Then you went off on one in para 2!

      Maybe its your position on Scottish Independence that gives you a skewed perspective of what you believe other people’s views on British Values might be. But you are wrong.

      For instance, according to most polls, in England, we view politicians as about as trustworthy as an estate agent or second hand car salesmen! We tend to vote for the “least worst” and are certainly not “loyal” to them. We do respect democracy and and the democratic process though. Amongst SNP supporting Wingers, there would certainly appear to be different relationship with the First Minister than anything that is the norm down here. If any I know down here referred to the Prime Minister as Theresa (or referred to Cameron as “David”) they would be just be laughed at – whereas SFM is often referred to as “Nicola” here.

      As for the monarchy, I have been a “pragmatic republican” for as long as I can remember. I can see no justification whatsoever for inherited position as Head of State – accept that I can’t think of anything I would prefer! Certainly not a President and Presidential election shenanigans every 4 years. So, in true quirky British compromise and pragmatism, I don’t like it – but it works, probably makes us money overall – so no point in getting in a sweat over it.

    337. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:

      Good old British values here sensible. The Ligger be crazy but he’s my No.1 candidate for the UKOK unelected head of state, after Brenda keels over, which could be another decade.

      Ligger’s vote Tory BBC Politics lunchtime show today had a nice photo montage of highlights in UK politics 2016. As usual, absolutely nothing Scotland whatsoever.

      BBC’s gone toryboy mad sensible. Its not healthy in democracy, even the UK version of odd creepiness.

      Andrew Neil ?@afneil 2h2 hours ago
      Andrew Neil Retweeted Sharon Gathercole
      I pay your wages too. And the unemployment benefits of the cybernats, who I notice you seem fine with.

      Andrew Neil added,

      Sharon Gathercole @Sharonwifey
      @ScoPoliticsNews @afneil @BBCNews his contempt unsurprising. He forgets we’re all forced to pay his wages, even cybernats he hates so much.
      88 replies

    338. Stu Mac says:


      It’s you who is reading things through a prism of a narrow mind. My first para listed some good British values which do exist. My second listed some bad ones. Are you claiming that the values of Britain – or any country – are all perfect? There’s no doubt there are folk with those “values” I described in my second para. We have them in Scotland too, not just England: see them displayed every 12th of July and more often at football ground where chanting about sexually attacking an elderly religious leader is often heard.

      The difference between Scotland and England though is that the kind of people who hold the worst values are in power – elected by a (narrow) majority (while the party that should represent the opposite tears itself apart) while in Scotland the majority by a long way have elected parties that don’t hold to the worst values.

    339. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 19 December, 2016 at 11:16 am:

      ” … Whilst you spend a lot of time worrying about these matters, I think I am right in saying that for most English folk, they don’t think about Scottish Independence from one month to the next.”

      Laughable, Oh! Sensible one, from that reply it is very, very obvious to Wingers that you have, as usual, completely missed the point. You added 2+2 and came up with the strange answer of 3.

      Wingers have no wish, as you would have it, to piss of, or even piss on, the perfectly decent people of, (Greater), England.

      Our dearest wish is that we Scots could be as equally blasé as you claim yourself and your English friends to be about the people of Scotland.

      Indeed it seems, to most of the people of Scotland, that the democracy you spoke about is. in England, rather insular and Little Englandy, as evidenced by the EU, in/out referendum.

      While Englanders predominately voted to leave the voters of Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain. That, Sensibledave, typifies the vast gulf that exists between our two peoples.

      We Scots do indeed always look outwardly and wish to engage with the World at large. Can you really say the same for Englanders?

      BTW: When we refer to, “The people of Scotland we generally define that as, “Those of any creed, colour or country of origin, who are mainly resident in Scotland and who have registered to vote in Scottish elections”

      Do you not consider it rather odd that you, and apparently all your Englander friends, say you are so blasé about Scots but have fought tooth, nail and propaganda, to retain the United Kingdom, (a bipartite union of kingdoms), yet see nothing strange about the Westminster parliament officially claimed by the United Kingdom Government as, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

      Yet Westminster legislates for the COUNTRY of England using English Law and applies it to the United Kingdom but also funds only the COUNTRY of England as The United Kingdom with United Kingdom funding. This while using EVEL in order to prevent Scots, Welsh and N.I. Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from voting upon matters that English Members consider to be Country of England matters.

      Now then, sensibledave, toddle off and play with those, ever so blasé English friends of yours.

    340. ronnie anderson says:

      @ heedtracker 12.45Awe! Please can we keep him?

      Yes we know a yoon troll is not just for Christmas, but he’s cute, and we’ll feed him and exercise him and clean out his cage everyday, pleeeeeease?!

      LoL nain a yer petted lip ah said Naw ,ah kin get ye ah Puppy fur christmas an aw year roon, noo am emphatic oan that ,ave goat tae think of others ah dont want Paula Rose screaming & stamping her feet, she,ll be wanting ah wee Lamb.

      Onnyhows Heedy we,ll pit it tae the vote, whits says yous Wingers ( ither Trolls excluded fae votin).

    341. K1 says:

      GHTF say Aye?


    342. heedtracker says:

      Onnyhows Heedy we,ll pit it tae the vote, whits says yous Wingers ( ither Trolls excluded fae votin).

      OK! Warning, never get trolls wet, they multiply, and no sunshine or feeding them after midnight.

      Or is that gremlins?

    343. sensibledave says:

      Robert Peffers @ 11.16 and 3.03

      …. just popped back, and shouldn’t have!

      Robert, for someone who displays pedantry of unbearable tediousness most of the time, it is astonishing that can be so wrong, so inaccurate, so lacking in knowledge or judgement and, frankly show yourself to be so dumb.

      I can’t be a***d to respond to all of your ridiculous comments and assertions but I will pick out a few:

      You wrote: “Indeed it seems, to most of the people of Scotland, that the democracy you spoke about is. in England, rather insular and Little Englandy, as evidenced by the EU, in/out referendum”

      England is quite a big country (population wise) Robert and the “Little Englander” tag usually is used by lazy dimwits to describe and imagine a “typical” englishman. It conjurs up pictures of “shire folk”, in tweeds, barbours and green wellingtons washing their BMWs outside their detached property or cotswold cottage. You are an idiot Robert. The constituency that I live in west of London as with so many other Home counties – voted 60.40 to REMAIN! Once again Robert your scarcely veiled antipathy colours everything you write.

      The leave vote was won because, in very general terms, of the “blue colour” vote in many northern industrial towns. The very towns that many Wingers claim such affinity with.

      More people in the southern shires voted to Remain than in the whole of Scotland. But hey, you are so lazy and ignorant of facts – you just write drivel.

      You wrote: do you not consider it rather odd that you, and apparently all your Englander friends, say you are so blasé about Scots but have fought tooth, nail and propaganda, to retain the United Kingdom, (a bipartite union of kingdoms), yet see nothing strange about the Westminster parliament officially claimed by the United Kingdom Government as, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.”

      NO Robert, I don’t consider it odd – because your assertions and projections are foolish, ill thought out and demonstrate, again, just how ignorant you are.

      Neither I, nor any of my friends, fought tooth and nail to retain the United Kingdom! I know you want to think we did and that you need to think we did – but we didnt. We watched with interest – but we didnt have any say and we were not to bothered about the outcome either way. We are just normal folk Robert going about our lives. Perhaps, when you “Get” that, it may help you in your life and stop you being such an idiot (and please spare me the history lesson again, I couldn’t bear it, no one cares Robert).

      You wrote: “would have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that you are a Britnat, a predominately Tory voter and an English Nationalist. Probable educated in the English public schools system, (that last one is a tiny bit iffy), as your education seems slightly more lacking than that usually observed in such poorly schooled people.”

      You idiocy knows no bounds Bobby. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong – as wrong as the wrongest thing ever was – on almost every count!

      Why is it you can be so wrong Robert. Its because you deal in lazy stereotypes, bogeymen, gangs, factions and you think everyone else is the same.

      I feel sorry for you Robert. The gap between your opinion of yourself, your perception of the world – and actual reality – is so large, there is no hope for you and you condemn yourself to permanent outrage because you actually know so little.

    344. Grouse Beater says:

      Sensibledivit is here again to call us idiots, and screw up the topic!

      “You idiocy knows no bounds Bobby. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong”

    345. sensibledave says:

      Grousey 1.30

      Pathetic Grousey!

      Do you really want me to do a cut and paste on all of the examples of insults, lazy stereotyping and completely unfounded accusations and assertions made towards me above? I can take it Grousey but you seem to feel the need to protect the poor lambs if I point out their idiocy?

      Grow up Grousey, you are such a one-eyed whinge bag!

    346. K1 says:

      Your’e such a narcissistic queen SelectiveDave…me me me…scweams wee Davey…me me me, evewy one look at ME…aw diddums…naebdy’s gies a toss what ye think ye snobby wee sniveller.


    347. Grouse Beater says:

      K1: “You’re such a narcissistic queen, SelectiveDave

      In a nutshell, with the emphasis firmly on ‘nut’. His use of first personal singular has past the million mark…

    348. K1 says:

      The ‘I’s” have it Grouse 😉

    349. Grouse Beater says:

      K1: “The ‘I’s” have it, Grouse.”

      Ha ha ha! That’s a cracker! 🙂

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