A terrorist organisation
Here’s a clip from last night’s Question Time from Leeds, in which Anna Soubry MP for the Conservatives, Lucy Powell MP for Labour, Charles Kennedy MP for the Lib Dems, ardent Unionist Ian Hislop from Private Eye and various audience members spent 20 minutes attacking the SNP, with no SNP representative present.
(The closest thing was Natalie Bennett, leader of the Greens in England and Wales, who was relentlessly mocked, derided and harangued from all sides for most of the programme’s duration, including by the “anti-establishment” Hislop.)
It seems to us that the solution to the problem is simple.
The Unionist parties spent three years begging, pleading, cajoling and threatening Scotland to stay in the Union and participate in UK politics, but has now turned round and said Scottish MPs are second-class ones who mustn’t be allowed to influence the make-up or the policies of the UK government, lest apocalypse reign.
(Unless they’re MPs from Unionist parties, of course.)
The justfication for this exclusion, when one is offered, is said to be that as the SNP’s main goal is Scottish independence (or as it’s more usually put, “breaking up Britain”), they can’t be permitted to take part in British politics.
But if that’s the case, then there’s no argument for them being allowed to be in Parliament at all. The only logical answer, then, is to ban them. The SNP must be outlawed and treated as a proscribed terrorist organisation on a par with the likes of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, ETA or Al-Shabaab.
(A large percentage of the other parties on the proscribed list, after all, are also independence-seeking “separatists”. And if the defining characteristic of terrorism is the creation of terror, then the effect of the SNP’s membership and polling surge on the three Unionist parties certainly leaves little doubt over their guilt.)
It sounds ridiculous, because it IS ridiculous. But it’s the only logical conclusion of the line of thinking that says you can’t have SNP MPs influencing the governance of the UK that Scotland is still a member of.
The SNP are a peaceful, democratic and law-abiding political party. If the people of Scotland choose to elect them to the UK Parliament, they have exactly the same right to participate in that Parliament as any other party’s MPs. If that right is no longer to be accepted because the SNP are a threat to the integrity and security of the country, then it’s clearly improper that the party should continue to be allowed to exist at all.
Scotland chose – albeit not with a great deal of enthusiasm – to stay in the Union, a notional democracy. It has a right to know, before it votes in this election, whether it’s still actually in one or not.
Well said Stu!
[…] Here’s a clip from last night’s Question Time from Leeds, in which Anna Soubry MP for the Conservatives, Lucy Powell MP for Labour, Charles Kennedy MP for the Lib Dems, ardent Unionist Ian Hislop from Private Eye and various audience members spent 20 minutes attacking the SNP, with no SNP representative present. […]
Wish Wings material could be canned and fed to the gullible and ignorant.
But the problem is we don’t really live in a democracy. We consistently have government that carries with it a minority of the vote but then uses it position to do whatever it wants even when it’s clear that majority don’t wish it.
Obviously there can be no banning of SNP because then we might well “take up arms and by opposing end” the dominion of Westminster.
We need to be included in debates especially if we are to be the question on every single programme. Perhaps with some alternation between SNP and sometimes Leanne Wood of Plaid instead of an SNP person but able to speak (approximately) in the place of SNP. I feel Plaid is not getting a voice either in all this – though it may be different in Wales.
Why Plaid? Because this anti-austerity progressive alliance has to raise its collective profile too. And be seen to be doing so in the mainstream British political arena.So that the Green voter in Kettering knows they are buying into that alliance and what it means in clear terms, on a broader UK basis rather than Celtic Nation or Eco Politics. The presence of Nicola at the helm of this – given the voices saying they wish SNP were an option in the rUK is a force that empowers.
Also someone really needs to take Ms Bennett in hand and give her the presence, gravitas, emphatic voice of say Lesley Riddoch or Val McDermid. In fact perhaps Lesley might kindly tutor Ms Bennett. It is unfair the way she was dismissed, on an almost institutionalised way, but we need a workaround of that, only possible if she is possessed of the emphatic authoratative voice.
“The SNP are a peaceful, democratic and law-abiding political party.”
… which immediately makes them different from the Unionist parties! No wonder they want to exclude the SNP from WM government!
I’m finding it hard to keep calm.
Voting SNP would ‘call into question the legitimacy of the voting system’ – WTF!
Are we an occupied territory?
As for Ian Hyslop, what an arrogant public school boy t**t
steveasaneilean exactly.
England must protect itself from the hordes of filthy, incestuous, drunken, subsidy-junkie tartan peasants.
“The Scots are revolting”, cry unionists.
“Let them sniff glue.”, says Britannia
Imagine having another Country influencing decisions on another Countries policies…oh hang on, can I get back to you on that thought….
Sneaks off stage right.
I watched it last night, and their was only one guy with glasses in the audience who said it up to the Scots to decide who they sent to Westminster.
All the rest of them apart from the green were chewing grit at the very idea their could be democratically elected SNP MP’s in a position of power down at Westminster.
They had better order more grit for the eighth May.
Surely a SG declaration of independence would give WM the ‘get out’ clause the seem to need…?
Excellent article. I don’t tune in to QT usually but have done on the radio 5 live the last two weeks.
Kennedy a Scottish person and MP did nothing to shoot down this diatribe which implied that a Scottish vote for a party in the UK GE was not an equal or legitimate vote. Hope that his constituents were watching.
However later on in the Nolan QT phone in programme Morag from Dundee just gave it to them between the eyes making all the points you have highlighted above. Well done to her!
‘SUCK IT UP’ were her parting words on the Nolan programme.
(Not on the i-player yet I’m afraid.)
If your reading this Morag…get in touch on wings! 🙂
Hislop has been part of the Establishment for many years now, he has become what he used to make fun of.
There it is British ‘democracy’ before our eyes, what the SNP have done over the last three years is show the real ugliness of the British Establishment and the measures the BritNats will do to keep the hegemony. They are terrified, and there will be rumblings of banning the SNP from parliament and shutting down the Scottish Government. Of course all of that takes balls which is something they don’t have. The only way I can see the Establishment countering a strong force of SNP MPs is to call another election for October 2015.
If there is a hung Parliament and talking to the SNP is outrageous, a Grand coalition is also out of question then the simple option is to call another election. The message then will be clear to the people of Scotland, vote SNP and you won’t be represented in Parliament.
The word ‘fascism’ springs to mind.
The Huff Post article linked to is interesting because what Gus is saying is that there is a disconnect between the number of votes cast and the number of seats won, which is clearly unsustainable.
The disproportionate influence that SNP may or may not have is just a manifestation of that. He’s calling for PR for the UK basically. I did like this quote though:
But speaking about possible coalition negotiations he dismissed Nick Clegg’s tenant (sic) that the party with the most MPs should have the first right to try and form a government.
“Clegg’s law, whoever has got the most number of seats gets first go,” O’Donnell said. “There is no such thing as Clegg’s law, apart form Nick Clegg saying it’s Clegg’s law.”
When the Irish Parliamentary participated they were (a) allowed, and (b) helped secure progressive policies in the UK. Daniel O’Connell, for instance.
To his credit, Ian Hislop pointed out that the SNP have ruled out a coalition.
Awful stuff. Please may we have much more Vote Slab BBC? And neutral top teamGB civil service bettertogther Sir Gus O’Donnell wants to change the whole Westminster set up, when they don’t like who Scots elect.
Beggaring belief/entirely predictable red and blue tory boy UKOK. Its up to Scotland now.
I didn’t realise that Ian Hislop was “anti-establishment”
this doesn’t really bother me much but simply highlights how poor a quality Political debate they have down there…
The audience being the educated ones and the panel clueless.
Charles Kennedy, despite his seeming state of inebriation, did well to sound angry with the audience and the panel, given their ignorance of the Scottish scene and inability to think democratically.
Then the Labour woman pointed out, how could David Cameron be the PM of the UK were the Tories to have no MPs in Scotland…
There was a moment last night on QT when it looked like Charles ‘on the rock’s’ Kennedy was going to step up and defend Scotland.
When Dimblebot turned to ‘Chic poached face’, he appeared to start aghast at the attack that was being made upon both Scotland and its anticipated reflected democratic voice at WM post May.
But you could almost hear the single malt oiled wheels in his head turn around in staggered motion as he quickly got back into LibDem mode.
Very quickly he moved away from any pride as a Scot, and instead relented with a minor dismissal of “never a coalition between Ssssnnnun…Pee & Labourrrr”
What is it with these LibDem political men of the Crabbies hair colouring from the North that they so let Scotland down…round after round?
I have to say Charles Kennedy looked and sounded like he was drunk.
I am not easily shocked but his skin colour, his demeanor, struggling to speak and difficulty in recounting the questions asked was painful to watch.
Perhaps it is time for others to intervene, for his own sake he really should not be standing in this election.
Ha! Just written about phony satirist, Hyslop. Didn’t watch Question Tomb.
Will post shortly.
Can a staunch Unionist be anti-Establishment? Surely the Union underpins the Establishment or is it vice versa?
Either way – the BBC were (true to form) true to form – only to happy to play the Westminster tune and bash the SNP in their absence.
But hey – SNP/Plaid/Sinn Fein bashing is nothing new.
And there was a time when Labour were the new kids on the block – a point which is often lost these days.
Labour describe themselves as originally being a parliamentary pressure group.
Is there anything materially different to a party who set up stall to champion the working man as opposed to a party who set up stall to champion a country.
link to www2.labour.org.uk
This seems to carry an echo of yesterday’s post, only instead of Labour being exposed, the whole edifice of Westminster is now being clearly exposed for the democratic sham it is.
As for ‘Sir’ Gus O’Donnell’s ‘legitimacy’ comments, what can you say? Decades of his party benefiting from its skewed voting efficiency via FPTP, but now that’s not working out it’s time to move the goalposts!
A succinct reductio ad absurdum of the Unionists’ position. They seem completely unaware of how their attitude to Scotland is making independence inevitable.
I never thought I would live in a UK where I would be routinely disparaged and sneered at simply because I dared to take part in the democratic process in a way of my own choosing. Oh, and for being Scottish.
Still, at least all their hate and bile is there for all of us to see.
No doubt all the Rhuaraidh and Fionnula Proudscot-Buts will approve. Well done, you!
There are two levels, though.
Excluding the SNP from parliament is unlikely. However, Con+Lab ganging up to exclude from any influencial role in government, is a possibility.
That would (assuming a good big block of SNP) mean Unionists ruling rUK with a mandate, but also carrying out reserved business for Scotland without a mandate.
That, would be a fatal mistake on their part … but they appear arrogant and stupid enough to try it!
3.17mins QT, nice red tory lady explains how Jim Morphy, BBC vote SLab are blatant liars over their “vote not Blairite Morphy, ONLY largest party gets elected” fraud but nice Labour lady says blue tory haven’t had majority since 1992.
“lets not forget, blue tory themselves didn’t win a majority at last election, in fact they haven’t won a parliamentary majority since 1992…”
Why let fact get in way of Slab’s giant con on their Scotland region. Her red tory colleague Jim Morphy says exact opposite. Funny that.
It’s nice to see politicians relaxing with a drink, but perhaps Charles Kennedy should have waited until AFTER the programme, before he imbibed. He looked extremely “tired” last night.
cue David Dimbleby “And next week, ‘SNP Bad’ will be in Croydon, plenty of Jock bashing for everyone, good night!”
This Week afterwards wasnt much better with Alan Johnston pleading in public for Ed Miliband to veto any possible deal with “the SNP who want to get rid of our Nuclear Deterrent!”
Dear Labour, Go Nuke yourself!
Charles Kennedy on QT. Yes folks this is the sort of pissed up ginger headed Scot who is going to come here and tell us how to run our country. Perhaps a deliberate choice for the panel.
Trouble is that when folks were blinded by the light of TRUTH last September, a.k.a. the VOW, they actually believed that this meant that Scottish politicians would be treated as an equal and courteously respected. Therein lies a big part of the problem.
Yes Scottish politicians will be treated as an equal and respected just so long as they are unionist in mind, body and soul and do exactly what they are told to do and how to vote by their non Scottish *ahem* Etonian elders and betters.
No Scottish politicians will not be treated as an equal and respected if they are part of that nasty self centred, protect the people of Scotland party, the evil S.N.P. These politicians will be prohibited from doing or saying anything in Westminster that will prevent the “upper classes” from carrying on the work of their ancestors … destroying Scotland and its people thereby ensuring greater land ownership for the upper classes and their hooray Henry’s and Henriettas to run about shooting anything and everything to their little heart’s content.
Above all … we the people of Britain, Engerland generally and Westminster specifically, need somewhere to dump our W.M.D.’s and nuclear waste. It’s not as if we will do either of these activities in Engerland our Green and Pleasant land now is it?
Liz says; Are we an occupied territory?
That is the way it is in actual reality, especially when WMD’s are forcibly housed in our country, which other country would put up with that by it’s neighbour?
My latest print is called ‘occupied territory’ and it is of a nuke sub in Scotland, and will be exhibited in France very soon.
Nicola’s a busy woman but AS would have wiped the floor with that lot and oxtered Kennedy into a taxi.
Brilliant: The BBC-QT clip had me chuckling; and, sensing the panic from esp the Labour and Conservative panel members, I return to my afternoon’s labours buoyed!
Ian Hislop is correct in what he says he doesn’t slag the SNP He points out what most of us Scots know, go no fecking clap for it either.
charles kennedy look drunk or unwell what a shame.
been thinking exactly the same thing RevStu. Having read some unionist/Britnat thoughts on why the SNP must be stopped, I think you’ve said it – the SNP want to ‘break up Britain’ so must be stopped from getting any power or influence in the UK (‘British’) parliament. Fair enough for people in politics or sending out political messages to argue whatever they want, but they do tend to slip into the territory of suggesting SNP be banned from having any influence.
but unless that happens – not very likely (more likely that there will be increasing joining of ranks of UK establishment including press) – and Scots refuse to vote for a tory party (of whatever colour), then we’ll see how broken the UK unitary system is. Federalism might save the UK because trying to operate a UK unitary state that has a parliament that is also the parliament of only 1/4 of the Union looks shaky to say the least.
Which reminds me, isn’t it pretty damn obvious that the only people who think Scotland is in a union are people in Scotland?
The thing that really pisses me off is when call me Dave has a go at Ed Miliband for having the gall to “crawl into” Downing Street as part of a coalition/ doing a deal with the SNP.
Em, where’s your majority Davie boy? Last time I checked you crawled into Downing Street yourself. Hypocrisy!!
Maybe just as well that we are not an otherwise lost black tribe of the Nation of Israel, then?
All that exclusion from meaningful participation in the legislative process will do is accelerate momentum for indyref 2.
It isn’t the SNP they will be rejecting, it will be the duly elected representatives of the people of Scotland. Those MPs are proxies for us, for our desires and goals. They represent us and they embody the will of the nation.
Of course, it is arguable that exclusory outcome is the optimum one. Certainly makes the case for indy when the electorate send 50 MPs to represent them and carry out the manifesto they were elected upon, cannot do so because of the systems inherent barriers to the levers of power, and the determination of English MPs to create an apartheid, permanently excluding Scotland from participation in the legislative process.
Effectively we will have been expelled from the British body politic. We are they say, a virus, a contagion. Theirs will be an act of ethnic cleansing.
In that event the only logical choice in self governance. It follows as night follows day.
Nothing new in that.
On a related matter, I am at a loss to understand why, if Labour hold a gun to the Scottish electorate’s head by ruling out cooperating with the SNP, folks like Alan Johnson believe that electorate are then going to turn around an meekly vote labour.
Seems to evince a cartoon understanding of the psyche of the electorate and a catastrophic misreading of the character and intricacies of the Scottish political dynamic.
I understand why Scottish MPs want any deal with the Nationalists ruled out. It carries risks but they are facing extinction anyway, so nothing to lose. But that is not true of Labour MPs in England.
Perhaps Mr Johnson’s latest intervention was made in the hope that Miliband would be forced to reject an alliance a priori, thus ensuring Labour’s defeat, Miliband’s subsequent resignation, and an opening for Mr Johnson in the following leadership contest.
Matbe they wanted Charlie on to fulfill the stereotypic cliché of the drunken Scot and he lubed up in the Green Room?
I have to say Stu, your a brave guy to listen through that shit.
If places like Wings didn’t exist we’d be deeply in the shit. Thank goodness for the internet. Now we can refute their lies instantly and the BBC progs from down south show the establishment shitting bricks that we didn’t go back in the box.
The anti-Scots stuff is mindnumbing. I wouldn’t blame anyone from getting angry at this shit. I do.
Thankfully we have Lollysmum.
Or we’d think the whole country is preparing for war on us Scots.
Slowly but surely the rUK is waking up to a realisation that the elitist nobs in power are destroying this country for the sake of the rich.
The union is dead. No ifs or buts. Labour are a joke now anywhere in the land. We won’t vote Labour here anymore. They would have to be drunk to vote labour in Wales. And by the look of things tory’s will win the GE15. Unless labour come begging for SNP support and they would have to give us home rule or else.
Am i the only one who doesn’t want Labour in power. They are a joke party and if we won’t vote for them why should anyone else.
We really need to get out of this union pronto.
Question Time is a joke. Their bizarre choice of panelists and rigged audience render the whole exercise redundant. The SNP would be well advised to boycott this sham programme, if only because the more real politicians engage with it the more attention and credibility it gets.
Is it of concern – or my increasing anti-establishment paranoia, that Charles Kennedy who appeared to be in a delicate state of health last night on QT, was mendaciously ‘allowed’ to take part as a supposed stereotypical person from Scotlandshire?
Would a responsible production normally allow someone unable to contribute on an reasonable footing with other contributors not have more concern and respect – unless immoral political and ethnic exploitation was the goal?
If Mr Kennedy has health issues – I wish him well. The health of the majority media is beyond help.
Perhaps Charlie boys drunkenness is related to guilt. Having shafted the Scots for so long he may have a few sleepless nights especially as he will hopefully be out of a job soon.
I couldn’t care less any more than I care a damn for Westminster’s idea of democracy which seems to be only for the English at the cost of any other nation.
and don’t get me started on sour faced Soubry.
But never mind they keep us all so safe…
link to politicshome.com
Rob James says:
“Charles Kennedy on QT. …. Perhaps a deliberate choice for the panel.”
It’s a highly manipulative programme … you might well be right in his being the choice for token Scot on the panel.
Re Gus O’Donnell
The democratic deficit occurs only if it is the SNP who win the 55 (or so) seats with about 4% of the UK national vote.
Imagine though if the Labour and SNP votes were reversed so that Labour in Scotland won 55 seats on exactly the same share of the Scottish votes. There is now no democratic deficit because Labour is a UK national party!
Eh!!!
Well done BBC for letting a drunk unionist MP on to defend Scotland, it fits all of their criteria!
The BBC mantra is to inform and educate, major fail on all points.
Propaganda machine is well oiled in preparation for Project Fear II, too wee, too poor and too stupid! Gone a wee step further with the too drunk.
My daughter and I had a discussion with a fellow winger at one of the Pacific Quay demos, he said to her “You young yins need to smash in there, then come and get the auld yins, we can take over from there”.
“That’s revolutionary talk” says she, quite taken aback.
The winger was right, this cannot go on, people are getting angry, anxious and fearful, add in the mix of feeling that you do not have a voice and it is a recipe for unrest.
The SNP must be electorally rubbing their hands in glee at this. Can we have more of this please?
Imagine someone who has stuck with the Labour party and the union all their life and now they have to listen to this anti-scottish rhetoric big time (and not just anti-snp, the two get conflated). What on earth are they going to think? They MUST begin to move over when they listen to this…
This is not a union. This is a, ‘you will stomach the hegemony and order that exists here and be damned’.
More of the same, please.
The Tory supporter was obnoxious. And she was wearing searing red in support of the other Tory party, Labour.
#tryingagain
Liz says; Are we an occupied territory?
That is the way it is in actual reality, especially when WMD’s are forcibly housed in our country, which other country would put up with that by it’s neighbour?
My latest print is called ‘occupied territory’ and it is of a nuke sub in Scotland, and will be exhibited in France very soon.
You know, if you treat a group of people LIKE terrorists, you may well end up causing them to BECOME terrorists. The UK has long since stopped being a democracy and move closer to a nanny state, if not exactly a police state, by the day. The people of Scotland do not like the direction the UK is moving and that is partly why they want to go in a different direction. The other part of that, the SNP part, is that we ARE a country and we SHOULD take responsibility for ourselves. There is NOTHING anti-English in any of the message. Indeed, an independent Scotland would no longer be a drain on ‘English’ resources, if that is what is believed in some places. Also, perhaps English people would realise that they too need to stand up for themselves against the ruling elites who fleece them daily. The UK could be made to work better if each country had its own parliament and were indeed self-ruling. Westminster could then adopt a role as a common meeting ground of the countries of the UK where matters of common cause might be dealt with. Possibly I am suggesting the economy of scale being where Westminster could be useful. Personally, my interest is in getting Scotland as far away from Westminster as possible and as CLOSE to the ordinary people of the wider UK as possible. The SNP is easy to support even for people who don’t yet believe in independence, because it is the only party which has the best interest of ALL the people at the heart of its policies .. which are already working throughout Scotland.
It is very likely that Cameron, Clegg and Miliband will not be around for too long when the GE dust settles.
I even heard today in sunny Fife that Dim Jim is a ‘dark horse’ for Labour leader from a ‘still voting’ labour supporter, even though he looked a bit forlorn when he said it. Gazing into the middle distance… Oh well.
Lets get our SNP MPs into the crypt and let them have a go at prising open the filing cabinets and vying for chairperson of this and that committee. Lets look at the books.
I only managed to watch for 3 mins. then I gave up.
Why have we Wingers and Yessers broken a perfectly good duopoly at Westminster?
Sorry, perfectly good just kinda slipped out there….only perfect and good provided nobody else (like an informed electorate) gets to challenge it.
What we need to do as a Nation is to give all Scottish Ballot papers directly to the Tory Party!
They can then use the votes to ensure that they and their filthy rich friends can continue to fill their pockets disproportionally and just as they do with pretty much every Pound the Scottish economy generates, they can take it all before telling us what is good for us.
This would ensure that the Labour Party is officially announced dead, rather than just acting like it>
The Tories can then treat us like mushrooms- Keep us in the dark and feed us manure!
Re Charles Kennedy, because others have pointed out the need to have drunk Scots stereotype, I wouldn’t put it past then to have given him stronger drinks than he realised in the green room.
He has been drunk in public before but could always cope well.
A drunk Charles Kennedy. A glue sniffing Jim Murphy. Good god the stereotypes are coming thick and fast.
All we need now are pictures of Ruth Davidson eating a deep fried pizza and Willie Rennie downing some Bucky.
What will happen if the polls turn out to be right and the SNP do send a large contingent of MP’s to Westminster, led by A.S.? Will they be given the cold shoulder in the chamber? Will they be prevented from even entering the building?
I’m sure that I’m not the only one who’s being saying for some time that the only logical step now, after all the hysteria, smears, and demonisation is for them to outlaw the SNP.
English media and politicians seem to be determined to create a huge gulf between the English and Scottish people. It looks like being a rough ride, but surely the only outcome now can be independence.
Westminster and democracy eh?
Two words which meet only accidentally in the same sentence. They are frankly hypocrites as are all defenders of this institution. They wouldn’t know real democracy if it jumped up and bit them on the bum. The shear ignorance shown above in the clip? FFS
I mean what part of supply and confidence do these morons not understand? I repeat, the only people talking about coalitions are the metrocentric fuckwits of the media and the snake oil salesmen who pass themselves off as establishment politicians. Yet the common belief held by Jo public across the border is that the SNP and Labour are cosy, that their land and politics are under threat from some anti democratic conspiracy. They believe this because it is what they are told to believe. The deception perpetrated upon the English electorate is as staggering in scale as it is dangerous and vile.
Any SNP M voted into service will be a representative of his constituency and the Scottish people. They will be there to protect our interests and vote according to conscience and representation end of. The problem with the establishment? The SNP still represent a progressive left of centre movement which remembers who is boss.
Us.
Last but by no means least. Yes the SNP do stand for Scottish independence, but first and foremost they stand for representing accurately the wishes of the Scottish electorate.
They don’t get it. They just don’t get it. Their overall view is one of ‘We love you, but to be honest, we can’t be bothered with you. We want your opinion, but it is our wish that you just keep quiet …well, most of the time …but preferably, if not all of the time.’
If this is us roughly 8 weeks out …it makes you wonder what it will be like 2 weeks from the election.
And if it the SNP are Kingmakers, then by God, are we not going to be entertained in Scotland as we watch the pantomime season kick off literally 6 months early.
Charles’ performance last night was pretty shocking and only highlights the fact that he is no longer fit for purpose.
As someone originally from ‘The Fort’, I know for sure that he is on borrowed time as an MP and will be resoundingly chased from Lochaber in May. Pretty sad really as at one time, he was actually one of the better MP’s out there but he has failed to understand that times are a’ changing!
I am hoping that the Lib Dems have the decency to get medical help for Charles Kennedy after last night’s
episode on Question Time.
He is obviously not medically fit to face the rigours of
an election campaign.
Yes they would like the seat as they may not retain any, but are they quite willing to put their party before the
health and general wellbeing of their former leader????
I have accused the Westminster parties of putting money before all else and their obligation the electorate is to
lie to them with stories that keep them on the Gravy Train.
Lets see where their priorities lie when it comes to Charles Versus Party.
Do they have an ounce of decency among their number???
Had I been in Mr Kennedy’s shoes last night? I’d rather have gotten shit faced too. Its about the only thing which would have made having to breathe the same air as those panellists bearable.
20 minute attack on the SNP with no right of reply. Democracy in action.
Having just watched the clip from QT above,
it sounds to me that this could easily become
a witch-hunt across England with the SNP as the target.
In defence of a defenceless Charles Kennedy,
it is unwise to side with the witch,
for you risk being burned at the same stake.
Please don’t imagine that these dynamics no longer exist –
they do, but in a contemporary guise.
On a different tack, the entire debate on the English
side of the border is heading for dangerous ground.
If this and previous audiences are anything to go by,
then the principles and practice of democracy
will be trampled underfoot by a nationalist sentiment,
arising from the mistaken belief that the purpose
of the SNP is to ‘destroy the country’ of the UK,
which equals England to most English eyes apparently.
If this position persists, and it will only be helped by
the Prime Minister, David Cameron,
who uses exactly this language to describe the SNP,
then, I would suggest, by the time May 7th comes along,
England will be consumed with this fear of the SNP,
and any thoughts of democracy will have long since
taken to the hills for safety.
The danger lies in the Establishment seizing the moment
to pass legislation outlawing SNP engagement in UK politics, or something of that order.
Never underestimate the Unionist nasty streak.
Remember, the reprisals for Indy are still ongoing
and are likely to increase.
@Effigy – No they don’t have any decency.
WM is run by ex public school boys who are trained from birth to be ruthless.
The establishment use people who are flawed and then ‘in some way’ force them to do their bidding.
What secrets do you think, some of our politicos are desperate to keep hidden?
Let them eat cake as somone famously said.
What they are doing is helping the independence cause without realising it. Every time they insult the SNP,Nicola,Cybernats,Scots…They plant the seed in the mind of the average Scot. That they see us as the second class underbelly of Britain.
They see anyone as an extremist who does not proscribe top their opinion or views. Does this sound like democratic type behaviour. I don’t think they realise that they are inverted bigots. You find the same arguments with religions. If you are not with us then you are unworthy and badly educated.
We the independence supporters support the false god of democracy and freedom. We should be good subjects and comply with the establishment god of greed,corruption,wealth,innequality and cover up.
There were a surprising number of Tories in the audience last week in Glasgow and I wouldn’t have had Leeds down as a Tory stronghold either. I think the Tories are making a fair old effort to make their presence felt…whether this is with the BBC’s knowledge is another matter.
The notion that UK elections are solely about what the English voter wants is utterly bizarre. If that is the case then the current Coalition was a betrayal of the Scottish voters…or does that not matter.
To be fair to Hislop, he recognises this and did say we are perfectly entitled to vote for the SNP if we want and that the SNP are perfectly entitled to participate.
Hmm. Perhaps a timely time for a reminder of a period when there really was no imminent threat to the Inner Empire, but still the Imperium felt the need to engage in some WAY serious jiggery-pokery.
Have a read at this. Puts a bit more meat on the doings Sillars alluded to during indyref.
link to facebook.com
Perfectly crystallized thinking .
Also not dissimilar to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt where half the population (40 odd million) are criminalized with some being executed.
Although the British are too subtle and clever to do that,they will try to find another way to neutraslise us.
It is starting to get on my tits though. All this behaving as though we’re massing on the border like Wallace’s army about to sack York, ffs.
And it’s only going to get worse. And the worse it gets, the more people are going to say, screw you f**kers, I’m voting SNP.
It’s instructive, I think then, to recall Sir John Clerk’s observing of the first Scottish MPs sent to Westminster after the Act of Union was passed:
To find themselves obscure and unhonoured in the crowd of English society, where they were despised for their poverty, ridiculed for their speech, sneered at for their manners, and ignored in spite of their votes by the ministers and government.
308 years is a long time, and shows just how much we wanted to this Union to work, but 2015 is payback time.
John H. says”for them to outlaw the SNP.”
Apologies John, I’ve just read your comment.
To minds, same thought – must be something in it.
call me dave says:
However later on in the Nolan QT phone in programme Morag from Dundee just gave it to them between the eyes making all the points you have highlighted above. Well done to her!
I listened to this for the first time last week,and again
last night,Morag on both times.Q,is she on it every week?
I’ll try again, maybe with practice . .
John H. says”for them to outlaw the SNP.”
Apologies John, I’ve just read your comment.
Two minds, same thought – must be something in it.
[…] A terrorist organisation […]
My issue with last nights programme was that no-one challenged the man who asked the question why a Labour/SNP coalition was seen as a betrayal of English voters. It was simply just accepted.
Slightly O/T be connected.
I posted a couple of questions directed at Robert Peffers on another thread. It was very late in the evening so they probably got lost amid the mass of posters that buzz around here – ya gotta be quick sometimes! ;-(
Is there anything definitive in the Acts of Union/treaty, from 1707 or thereafter, which would inhibit or rule out the termination, by one of the two signatories, of the treaty?
Are we quite literally caught in a trap with no exit unless the Scots in an allowed majority vote decide to go?
Listening to all the claptrack from QT and the general opposition to the SNP exercising their right as nominated representatives of Scotland in the UK Parl, it’s obvious we’re being denigrated to second-class subjects.
The GE15 is a stepping stone forward but we’re still not out of the s**t.
Is there any glimpse of light Robert?
Call Me Dave says:
Lets get our SNP MPs into the crypt and let them have a go at prising open the filing cabinets and vying for chairperson of this and that committee. Lets look at the books.
Exactly! This is one wee gem that the Scottish Electorate might not have thought off. What happens if the SNP are given access to the key rooms within Westminster and Whitehall? It’s certainly a Pandora’s Box for someone should that moment come to pass; a blight on the Establishment and Hope for Scotland. God knows what revelations will be unveiled! What happens if we found a dozen pieces of information that were meant to be buried and to never see the light of day? What if there is confirmation of acts so insidious against the Scots, that to reveal them finally shatters not only the last links of trust, but also of the Union itself? Put the Genie back in the bottle …HA! Not a snowballs chance in hell if we get access to these rooms.
That, like Call Me Dave …is what I’m hoping will come to pass. The only worrying thing might be watching the telly and seeing the shredder lorries out on mass outside Westminster and Whitehall on the morning of the 8th! LOL
Kennedy is my MP and I am campaigning actively to remove him from the gravy train, but it gives me no pleasure to see him embarrass himself on TV. I didn’t watch Question time because I had to stop for the sake of my blood pressure, I watched most of this clip and the symptoms were returning!
The anti-Scottish rhetoric has now breached even some of the worst moments of the referendum and it can only get worse, how much more of this nonsense do we have to endure? The Rev is right the MSM are trying to portray the SNP as some sort of terrorist organisation, if anything can convince folk that the BBC is little more than a state broadcaster toeing the establishment line its orchestrated programs like this.
The breakup of this damnable union was always going to be messy I think this obvious anti-Scottish establishment campaign is only the opening skirmishes, the union is past repair, the end is inevitable.
We are obviously only better together as long as we continue to prop up the rUK economy hand over our resources without a quibble and take no part in the democratic process of Westminster.
I am heartily sick of this union
I suppose good old Dimblebum had to keep the old “we hate the Scots and the S.N.P.” routine going for as long as possible last night otherwise a quesdtion about this might have popped up. 😉
link to archive.today
First we had “Two Jags” Prescott.
Next we had “Five homes” Prescott.
Now we have “Two Kitchens” Milliband.
Hmm, I’m just pondering here but is this a Socialist thing I am seeing here. I mean *ahem* leading socialists who have multiple expensive commodities whilst the poor starve and die!
Whether QT EBC MSM are a joke or not the anti Scottish sentiment expressed by a very large proportion of the ENGLISH population (various audiences) is not. that they object to the SCOTS having or are entitled to be part of the wonderful ENGLISH democracy unless it Suites them is typical.
As I have said before we sponge off merry ENGLAND. We don’t pay our way. We don’t talk the same as them. We don’t contribute anything to the greater ENGLAND. We are drunken louts. In their opinion.
Why the hell do they “love” us and demand us to stay in greater ENGLAND. What is it they need us for just to belittle us, as a whipping boy or as a rat in a cage so they can show us off to their pals.
Don’t try and leave them or they will give you a good kicking just to show how much they love you. Now that is true love. Let’s get a divorce from this violent selfish partner, if they’ll let us.
manandboy wrote: “The danger lies in the Establishment seizing the moment to pass legislation outlawing SNP engagement in UK politics, or something of that order”
If you want independence soon as possible, that is an outcome devoutly to be wished.
They would be banning the duly elected representatives of the people of Scotland, who are proxies for our desires and our goals. They represent us and embody the nation.
To reject them is to reject us. To disrespect them is to disrespect us. To bar them from the legislative process, is to disenfranchise us.
To expel us from the British body politic is to ethnically cleanse us of it, and create system of apartheid.
To do all these things is to institutionalise racism and encode it in statute.
Question Time has a lot to answer too, but my problem, is we are playing by the rules and they will not. Same problem we had with Indy. THERE IS NOTHING WM WILL NOT DO….lets be aware of this.
My reply to Sir Gus and the Huffington Post
Democracy sucks when things don’t go in your favour eh. How are 50 Scottish SNP MP’s going to cause a democratic legitimacy issue but it has been no problem with 50 Scottish Labour MPs, which has been the norm? I think Sir Gus is more worried about what those 50 SNP MP’s will have access to. The shredders will be working overtime at the crown office. SNP MP’s cannot be bought with the promises of knighthoods and lordships. Smell the fear? Ask yourself and keep asking yourself why did Davie Cameron beg Scotland to stay within the Union if we are such a burden. Why did the Queen positively purr (Cameron’s words) at the referendum result? It’s all about the oil stupid. The Nixon tapes are small fry compared with the stuff these entitled gentlemen cook up. Democracy legitimacy my arse!
So, looks like thousands of us have joined a terrorist organisation, in the mistaken belief it is a serious centre left political party working hard on Scotland’s behalf.
Glad we cleared that up.
Last week’s reference to wearing tin helmets was actually good advice.
This episode of QT, allied to me arguing about that Clarkson tit on FB, is making me very irritable! 750k go out of their way to sign a petition to keep this boor in a publically funded job, but as I pointed out, I suppose it’s a step up from funding paedos.
Charles was decidedly under the weather and functionally barely coherent. Still he had more authoritative voice permitted him thsn did Natalie B.
It was undoubtedly deliberate to set Kennedy up as a parody, Scotsman Inc: even without a kilt. It was cruel and the Lib Dem machine should have prevented it, or if they did it in compliance qua…Union…they fall further in my estimation.
Charlie Kennedy was once a decent politician. It is sad to see his downfall. Sadder still to see that taken advantage of.
And of course no one understands “supply and confidence” – no one is going to hop off the more scary Coalition with the Scots bus in favour of the more tolerable Santa’s sled when they can terrify the electorate into a foam of antipathy towards us.
It is that very, very wearisome strategy complete untruths repeated so often and so much more loudly in the face of denial to the point that everyone gets fed up shooting down – and the falsehoods stand. Attrition. And it stinks.
Almannysbunnet @ 2.51, great post, but just wait til the unionist trolls on the Huff threads spot it!
The SNP response to “want to break up our country” should be along the lines of:
“We are a democratic party”
“We accept that Scotland voted NO in 2014”
“We have moved on” (about time that others did!)
“Independence is not on the agenda for the GE”
(why all this talk of breaking up the country?)
“We claim our democratic right to campaign for more powers for Scotland”
“Scotland was promised DevoMax/Federalism following a NO vote and we will hold WM to that promise”
[…] the establishment realises that the jig is up so they’re making one last stand as people from all sides of the establishment combine to purge what they see as threats and to shape a new UK that’s not going to be a nice place to […]
Don’t worry, after 4yrs of having 50 SNP MPs at Westminster large parts of the English Electorate will be literally begging the SNP to stand candidates in their areas. Assuming we can make it past the apocalypse that seems to be predicted for May 8th.
Really, if we don’t get out of the F’in political mess soon, I believe I will go insane.
The wife always listens to Classic FM and always in the car.
She is currently pi55ed off at the adverts, every half hour,
for ‘Scotland is changing’.
She says it feels like we’re in N Korea.
I cautioned her that Westminster probably taught
the N Koreans everything they know.
Westminster is certainly pouring it on.
But what is the bigger picture?
What is the longer term plan.
To disembowel Scotland I would suggest.
A little bit at a time, but moving quickly,
because important elections are coming in the next few years.
@gillie 2:20 pm
“Willie Rennie downing some Bucky.”
Then he’d be less of an arse at least
Kennedy tried and emotional?
Not sure ,maybe he just couldn’t be arsed with the whole gig!
That’s giving him the benefit of doubt
Can anyone post a link to “Morag on Nolan QT” ?
@Almannysbunnet
Great post, doubt they will allow it to stand.
Have listend to the whole show,i do not believe mr kennedy
is drunk but his battle with the demon has clearly damaged
his health.
A few random thoughts. I had never heard of Al-Shabaab before, and thought it sounded more like a kebab than a political entity (boom boom). :D: D:
Most importantly, the British establishment and its MSM lackeys are losing the plot over Scotland big time. They are coming across as raging bampots, and this is generally not a good idea. It is almost as if they want Scotland to become independent now.
Sorry but I just could not watch any more than a few minutes of this. Stopped watching Question Time years ago as it got my blood pressure up and with my insomnia it wasn’t a good thing.
Democracy has sadly left the British Isles instead we have Politicians working the electorate through the media.
We have lost Social Security and gained the Welfare State. We used to have Council housing, mostly because there were always people who for one reason or another could not afford or get a mortgage, now they are all spongers, even if they are working. Sadly the propaganda seems to work with some. So does the mantra being put about that the SNP are bad, very bad. Stuart is right because those English who listen to the first sort of propaganda are believing this.
When you see the quality of many of these people who are looking for your vote to run the country you must truly ask yourself why on earth would you want them to. Charles Kennedy should have given up and in fact he should have been deselected years ago. He is an alcoholic and I seem to remember that in many places whilst they will not fire you as long as you seek help, if you fall down on your end of the bargain they have a perfect right to let you go. There should be no difference for our employees. If indeed he was drunk last night there might indeed be that reason he was there. Holding himself up as a drunken Scot, as used to be portrayed by Hogarth that typical English Nationalist of the 18th Century.
MidgeHunter: “Is there anything definitive in the Acts of Union/treaty, from 1707 or thereafter, which would inhibit or rule out the termination, by one of the two signatories, of the treaty?”
No, there is not.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain is a legal and political entity formed by the Union of two and only two countries – the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England (incorporating Wales). It was created by a bilateral internationally recognised treaty.
It is the case that upon dissolution of the Treaty of Union, its associated enabling acts of parliaments, and any subsequent contingent intra-state treaties and agreements derived therefrom, the United Kingdom of Great Britain will cease to be.
Article and below the line comments issue is discussed herein link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
Bottom line it is a matter of realpolitik. Cameron agreed to the Edinburgh Agreement and actioning the Section 30 enabling legislation because, contrary to the received wisdom, he had no choice.
Won’t go into it here but all power lies in the hands of the people of Scotland to end this union at any time. In matters constitutional and Scottish, the People are in practice, sovereign.
Eh, why is 😀 not working?
Christian Wright says:
13 March, 2015 at 2:50 pm
manandboy wrote: “The danger lies in the Establishment seizing the moment to pass legislation outlawing SNP engagement in UK politics, or something of that order”
If you want independence soon as possible, that is an outcome devoutly to be wished.
Indeed. Surely they cannot be that stupid (but then again). The establishment doesn’t seem to realise the massive pent up energy (and frustration) that developed during the YES campaign. It’s still there – like a giant coiled spring waiting to be triggered again. It’s peaceful now because the people see an opportunity to vent their frustration on the red tories in May. But if WM steps up the verbal attacks on the SNP to something more sinister then thousands will be on the streets before they can say “national emergency”. People can only take so much.
They will need every one of those shiny new armoured cars and water cannons that they ordered.
An excellent summary of this outrageous state of affairs, Stu.
As for Hyslop, lest we forget , he makes a very fine living indeed from the EBC, whether that be blasting the jocks on ‘Have I got news for you’ or fronting documentaries glorifying wars of Empire and the English way of life.
He’s about as anti-establishment as Gus O’ Donnell.
Can’t help feeling friend and enemy around the world must be looking at the British ruling class and thinking, we need never really worry about them ever again.
It could have been so simple; 3 years ago, put together a real Home Rule package, as people understood it, present it to the people, discuss it, see what works, put it on the ballot paper, and it would have strolled through. 3 year ago that is, not now.
Instead they reached for ‘let’s totally fuck this up’ plan, and “while we’re all reading lets have a big mug of ‘thick as shit in the neck of a bottle’ potion”.
50 SNP m.p.s? never underestimate the black arts of the British establishment at the ballot box.
Luigi: “Surely they cannot be that stupid (but then again).”
The bone-headed intransigence discussed would increase pressure for a second referendum to an irresistible level in surprisingly short order.
We could easily see pro-indy opinion poll numbers in excess of those in Catalonia. It all depends on just how cosmically dumb Westminster is prepared to be. I have enormous confidence in their infinite capacity for stupidity.
Do the English MSM and WM politicos want to perceive all us Jocks as running & screaming down from the glens shouting…
”Alba…ach, bah” (to give it a contemporary slant)
Oh for gawds sake!!
@ JLT at 2:43 pm
“Lets get our SNP MPs into the crypt and let them have a go at prising open the filing cabinets ….
What happens if we found a dozen pieces of information that were meant to be buried and to never see the light of day? What if there is confirmation of acts so insidious against the Scots, that to reveal them finally shatters not only the last links of trust, but also of the Union itself? “
Nice one, JLT – but is there any real need to wait,
assuming Westminster are ever going to cooperate with SNP investigations.
Based on what we already know about what previous Governments have done,
it is safe to assume that much more of the same has been perpetrated.
What else do you do with absolute power, both to act
and then declare it secret for 50/100 years.
And given the very, very long term pattern of anti-Scottish
sentiment and activity, there is no reason whatever
to suggest that the same does not exist today.
The Westminster leopard has not changed it’s spots.
Maintaining an Empire is done through terror –
not through kindness.
manandboy, 🙂
Something that worrys me, and maybe I’m getting carried away here, is that having successfully planted the idea in English peoples minds that the SNP are agents of the Devil himself, the way is open for Westminster to take some kind of drastic action in defence of “the country”.
The thing I now fear most is that someone on our side, whether they actually are or not, commits an act of violence. The stage would then be set to take whatever action is deemed necessary.
I was actually grateful that, despite being the ‘ardent Unionist’, Mr Hislop did stand up and say that it was Scotland’s democratic right to vote in SNP MPs if she so desires, and shouldn’t be called a “terrible betrayal”. Much of the English political and media scenes seem to be forgetting this at the moment.
“Do the English MSM and WM politicos want to perceive all us Jocks as running & screaming down from the glens shouting… ”Alba…ach, bah” (to give it a contemporary slant)”
Hilarious. The MacHadis.
At the very least Scottish types are making tory boys think a little bitty about stuff like how teamGB is a mad house-
O’Donnell said while the SNP could win 55 MPs with just 4% of the national vote, the Greens and Ukip would not get anywhere near that many MPs despite “a lot more people” having voted for them. He said: “That’s going to cause quite a legitimacy issue.”
He added of opinion polls that showed national vote share. “I kind of despair. What matters for our parliamentary system and who is the government is seats not votes,” he said.
Nest speech,
“O’Donnell said he thinks completely its bonkers that all top teamGB jobs in UK.gov, law, military, BBC, City, Church etc are stuffed to the gunnels with private school daddy’s boys, usually Oxbridge, the more expensive the private school the righter the type.”
He added “I kind of despair. What matters for our land of hope and glory is loads upper class twits really very good at protecting and enriching other upper class twits, big up to my main man phoney lefty, proudScotbut/expenses fiddler and future Sir Alistair Darling.” he said.
Am visiting England this weekend… will be wearing my SNP badge, hoping for some entertainment 🙂
Noting what people mentioned about the ‘dangers’ of SNP being privy to ‘sensitive’ national information I think perhaps that’s why the inebriated Mr Kenedy ruled out the SNP having government ministers.
theres obviosuly a wealth of information there that the SNP could use to prove that indpendence is hugely beneficial for scotland.
Call me Dave. Hi pal, I listened to Morag last night and my cheering woke the whole house up, she was magic. If Morag does read this or anyone know Morag, is she an SNP Member and will she be at Nat Conference in Glasgow 28/29th March? If she will be there I’d love to meet her or she can contact me at: asterix.says.yes@gmail.com
Apart from that they have been given chances to change the voting system but have always felt so smug in their FPP system that they laughed the idea out – don’t hear much laughter now but I do hear a lot of pigs squealing. Two old proverbs come to mind 1) Chickens coming home to roost and 2) They made their beds now let them lie in them.
Auld Rock
Update on ‘Scot goes Pop’
Methodology change but for the anoraks 🙂
Question Time is not a serious topical issues discussion programme. It is simply light entertainment, nothing more. Kennedy sad and embarrassing to observe; Hislop whatever radicalism he may have had in earlier career, he is now an establishment court jester. Even M. Bennett, by being reasonable, was receiving the treatment from the little Englander panellists. England’s inferiority complex is gnawing away at them. Anytime soon I expected them to burst into song, Rule Britannia, to cheer themselves up.
Just watched it. Anna Soubray left me open mouthed. What a hateful woman.
It just makes you more determined to thwart their cosy little set up doesn’t it?
There is no need to do any provocative act Westminster are doing very nicely on their own thank you. Leave them to it. Day by day they are developing their own constitutional crisis with little input from me other than my supporting the SNP.
We just have to letvthem make mistake after mistake,and inevitably the curtain will come down on this farce.
Sometimes it can be harder to see when you are winning.
@ John H
Like you, John, I wouldn’t put it past them.
They’ve had a terrible fright and will not want it repeated.
If I was in their shoes, I know what I would do, and if I can work it out, then so can they, and more besides.
We are not dealing with the man in the street here.
These people start wars and are responsible for the deaths of 100’s of thousands of innocent women and children.
All they have to do is to convert the Scots
from British Citizens, as it says on the passport,
to some kind of threat.
They then make a label, like insurgent, or rebel,
or revolutionary, or any threat to the country and national security,
they then stick their chosen label on you through
a few months of nationwide propaganda,
and bob’s your uncle,
they cite anti terrorism legislation,
or something similar, and they shut you down
with court cases and prison sentences
or simply a campaign to discredit you.
This is the UK in the 21st century,
now run by power and greed crazed fanatics
who will do anything to keep the money they have piled up –
and the power.
To have amassed so much money
and gained so much power
it is mind crushing to them to even think of losing it.
Did I say the UK – I meant N Korea.
Glamaig
Get the ‘Yes’ badge on too, along with ‘Bairns not bombs’ (etc, etc, etc). The more items the better! You can then have a whale of a time explaining the lot!
——-
Christian Wright
”Alba…ach, bah” ….LOL LOL LOL ….bloody brilliant. The MacHaddis!!!
——–
To Glamaig again …there’s your battle cry when down south LOL
If a majority sans SNP is not possible, it’s going to be interesting to see how the wheels of Westminster turn post-election.
Current projections put the likelihood of SNP support being needed to survive a no confidence vote at 51%.
With no agreement in place, the SNP will be free to vote however they like on every single piece of legislation put before the house, and therefore determine the outcome where Labour and the Tories disagree.
It also amuses me that England has already forgotten that it was THEY that voted against AV 5 years ago, which would have saved them the predicament they now find themselves in.
Leanne Wood, leader of Plaid Cymru has suggested that Welsh people living in England should vote for the Greens in the GE. Maybe Nichola could suggest to Scottish people living in England (approximately 750,000) that they too should also vote for the Greens.The alliance formed between Plaid, SNP and Greens would then form quite a formidable force against the main Westminster parties. What do you think?
@ Bob Mack
Let Westminster be Westminster.
They’re doing a grand job of all that heavy lifting. 😉
Brians BIG debate on radio Scotland this lunchtime wasn’t much better.
John H:
I really don’t see anyone doing anything violent. We got through the referendum without any real trouble, and this election is:
1) Less of a divisive issue
2) Going our way.
Any violence would be most likely to come from the type of Unionists who flocked to George Square after the vote, and they are a tiny minority.
I did worry about “drastic action” from WM for a while, such as a grand coalition, but I can’t see that happening. It would destroy Labour. What else can they do? Some sort of quasi-legal trickery tied to EVEL?
This is either a democracy or it isn’t.
I’m with Christian Wright (comment 3:17pm) on this. Any move to disenfranchise Scottish voters would only strengthen our cause.
Dear Unionist friends
You have Question Time, Scotland 2015, Call Kay with an E, The Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Daily Record, The Times, The Guardian, Private Eye and near every other daily or weekly newspaper, The Labour Party, The Conservative Party, The Lib Dems, The Orange Order, UKIP, BNP, The BBC, Asda, RBOS, Standard Life and Eddie Izzard.
We non unionists have the S.N.P.
Why are you so scared?
Again, someone needs to ask the simple question:
“Are you saying that if Scotland votes differently from the rest of the UK, democracy is undermined? Firstly, then, explain the 1980s…then explain the north of Ireland.”
We could have been spared all this –
if only we had had fewer massive oil & gas fields –
worth £trillions still.
Or nice neighbours.
Just our luck, all that oil & gas –
and neighbours from hell.
@ Christian Wright
Many thanks for your answer and the link to Bell C. 🙂
“Bottom line it is a matter of realpolitik. Cameron agreed to the Edinburgh Agreement and actioning the Section 30 enabling legislation because, contrary to the received wisdom, he had no choice.
Won’t go into it here but all power lies in the hands of the people of Scotland to end this union at any time. In matters constitutional and Scottish, the People are in practice, sovereign.”
That would mean therefore, we need as near a clean-sweep of the SNP WM15 seats as possible and in SE16 a good solid majority of indy parties/seats to indicate the sovereign and settled will of the Scottish people to be ruled by parties for independence.
After that, we are not dependent on whether WM says yes or no, we can simply terminate the treaty with a two year deadline for negotiations.
Well, it’s taken almost two centuries, but it seems England is at last realising that FPTP is not a very fair system. I think Scotland is also wakening up to the fact that we can have a fair bit of leverage on May 2015. One great claim for continuing the union was that, together, we could “punch above our weight”? Well, Mr Cameron, Scotland is poised to give you a very hard lesson in punching above one’s weight.
@ Wee Jonny
I just love that!
Wee Jonny says:
13 March, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Dear Unionist friends
You have Question Time, Scotland 2015, Call Kay with an E, The Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Daily Record, The Times, The Guardian, Private Eye and near every other daily or weekly newspaper, The Labour Party, The Conservative Party, The Lib Dems, The Orange Order, UKIP, BNP, The BBC, Asda, RBOS, Standard Life and Eddie Izzard.
We non unionists have the S.N.P.
Why are you so scared?
Because we have the people (and they know it).
@JLT
@Call Me Dave
Why do you think Westminster is sh!tt!ng bricks?
It is because AS was so very very good at finding corpses in the ministries. One they could deal with but a whole bunch of them?
Alex Salmond is rapidly being draped the mantle of the Black Douglas by the English chattering classes. Anti-Jock xenophobia not seen since the time of Lord North is in full flow.
Hush ye, hush ye, dinna fret ye!…….
I either need to switch on a spellchecker or learn to write more slowly…! 🙂
I would imagine that it’s not just the present unionist incumbents in WM who are worried but a vast backlog of hushed up issues, silenced whistle blowers, secret schedules, redacted papers, – not to mention ‘lost’ files (plus voting registers) and the shallow graves of certain bodies etc. involving other establishment elites, apparatchiks, suspect societies and other cliques having sleepless nights.
Can’t you hear the whirr of shredding machines and rustle from stuffing brown envelopes before the unionist comfort zone is challenged. Westminster etc. are not just wetting themselves about the SNP but what England’s electorate may come to realise about their establishment – not to mention our friends in the rest of the world.
1) Breaking the Labour Party in Scotland leads us to 2) breaking the BBC which leads us to 3) breaking the union which 4) brings it all home.
No UDI required.
@ wee jonny and @ Luigi
I agree with you both, our unionist friends have a lot on their side but we have the SNP and the people.
As an added bonus we also have Scottish Labour and Jim Murphy and his motely crew of talented individuals.
I think we might be witnessing The Union`s Last Stand. The only tears to be shed are that it has been a while in coming.
The point Stuart makes about the discussion being focused on the SNP for 20 prime time minutes with no possibility for participation or redress are well made!
I like to extend this to the leaders debates.
What kind of Mickey Mouse democracy is the uk, a state that would seek to exclude democrats from participating in debate, then debate those excluded!
Key is not to fight this, we can’t, key is to bring it to people’s attention and let them decide.
Donnie McIntosh
I’m aghast.
Each time I see these sort of debates, and their stinking attitudes laid bare, I get angrier.
The only person talking any sense – Natalie Bennet – was treated like the idiot.
Charles Kennedy was an embarrassment.
Shameful and tragic.
And there it is right there, courtesy of Luigi & Midgehunter. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Sovereignty lies with the Scottish people.
Cameron knows it.
The Queen knows it.
The BBC and the Press know it.
McTernan knows it (and explains why he doesn’t stop when all the odds are stacked against Labour in Scotland.)
The only ones still to know it are the Scots –
people like me, who have been blinded by a lie,
and don’t ‘get it’.
Till today.
Westminster’s best kept secret – sovereignty of the people.
Westminster’s biggest lie – the Queen and Westminster are
sovereign in Scotland.
The truth will set you free – as they say.
Lucy Powell said at the end of the clip:”we are a different political party to the SNP, and thats why I want people to vote labour”.
just a thought Lucy,maybe people are voting SNP BECAUSE they are different to the Labour party!
I’m beginning to think that the traditional, and much boasted, British sense of “fair play” isn’t what it says on the tin.
Hey fellow wingers – I have to make this point and I know am gonna get shot down for this but I don’t really care.
Over the last week I have noticed (understandably due to the blatant racism by the media and establishment) the posts on here have become very negative and sometimes aggressive. We need to be carful not to get dragged down into the same playing field as the establishment. That where they want us as it will make there fight against us easy.
I don’t think I am exaggerating to suggest the possibility of the British military to be deployed to protect the uk from these nasty people who want to destroy the union. Yes that is a very long way off but we all know it’s possible.
The yes campaign took us this far because it was positive. Let’s keep it that way.
Like many have said Westminster will destroy itself. All we have to do is keep on the path of what’s in the best interest of the people of the uk (as were still in the union). If we start usin there language of hate we become easy for the establishment to break us up.
Kevin Evans,
Well said.I’m voting SNP cos they ALWAYS stick up for Scotland.Best candidates.Best policies.Best future for Scotland.
Plus,they aren’t creepy.
That was very clearly and very well put!
Much water is to flow down the Nith, Spey and Tay before we cast our votes. However, looking at the fancy chart on the home page of Electoral Calculus. We are still in the realms of a LibDem/Lab pact!
link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
Dealing with the SNP may not be an issue for WM!
If ….
Lab doesn’t loose quite so many to the SNP
or
Lab fairs better than the Tories in England
or
UKIP take a few more Tory seats
or
LibDems hang on in a few more places
…. We will get a Lab/LibDem government.
I see this as among the worst of scenarios!
WM doesn’t need to deal with the SNP.
There might be a dozen or so government party MPs left in Scotland so a weak mandate exists for that government to rule all UK.
There will be no EU referendum with a potential get-out-of-jail card.
Bleak prospect!
Basically, though I hate to admit it, a stronger Tory presence at the expense of Labour might be in Scotland’s interests!
Methinks they(The Unionistas) are soiling their smalls.
Edinburgh Calling at the top of the dial.
Clever use of language we’re hearing.
insurgents , terrorists, (50 SNP mp’s against 591 FFS) . apocalypse and danger of “breaking up the country”.
Worse to come as well.
This is similar to the stuff in the referendum with half the population branded a nazi etc.
But this is an election and the country is more together than ever. The SNP will make life difficult i’m sure but in truth i just want indi. Anything else is window dressing. So i believe this rhetoric will backfire. And then they will get nasty.
We should be aware of that.
And be prepared to show the world what Westmidden really stands for. Threats and the like should be thrown out to for all to see.
Civil war in Scotland would destroy England too. Surrounded by the Irish Welsh and Scots and having pissed of most of the EU, they would be tarnished beyond repair.
They cannot defeat us that way. No they will stick to the scares and smears. No doubt try to damage us economically . ( mind you they’d be servicing debt without our oil, gas, whisky etc.) Anything else would damage their already poor reputation. So i doubt violence would work.
Outlawing the SNP means WE declare independence. Simples. Oh the joy. 🙂
Why can’t the rUK see the mess this union is in. How can they fail to see the division is already there. They must be blind.
Murray McCallum says:
British sense of “fair play”
… it probably only applied when the British were winning.
We can all see Westminster is shitting enough bricks to rebuild Hadrians wall. Let’s keep the pressure on them but voting for Scotland with Scottish SNP mp’s. That’s all we have to do and it’s almost game set and match.
If we get 45% of the vote in each areas election we walk it.
@ Christian Wright
The problem with your interpretation lies in the fact that the 1707 Acts created an incorporating union. As you know, the parliaments of both England+Wales and Scotland were dissolved and incorporated into the parliament of Great Britain.
Arguably, therefore, neither of the signatories to the Acts has any continued existence as a legal entity, and so the only competent body to repeal the Acts is the said parliament of Great Britain.
We’ve already seen constitutional lawyers arguing the case back and forwards during the referendum – all I’m saying is that the issue is nothing like as clear cut as you make out (more’s the pity)
Christine Graham on sovereignty
link to youtube.com
Great article Stu. I sense we’re getting to the crux of the matter now.
Sorry to go off-topic but..
I’m listening to a recording of The Big Debate and Anne Begg MP has just claimed that racists were more likely to have voted Yes in last year’s referendum.
Apart from being blatantly untrue, this is coming from a woman who campaigned for a No vote alongside known members of the National Front.
So am I right in thinking that after the election, if the SNP get 40-50 seats they will be the third panelist on QT every week, with the token Liberal every couple of months – yeah right!!
You’d think so Jim. But I somehow doubt it
@galamcennalath above:
The thing you are forgetting is that Scottish politics lives beyond Westminster. Regardless of who forms the Westminster government, if they ignore a large SNP group they face indyref2, as the SNP would win a mandate for in the Holyrood 2016 election.
Sadly, I think that all the guff that the media and the tory parties are putting out is to achieve at least two ends. Firstly to get the gullible and the feart into line; secondly to provide a justification for the security services, in collusion with the tory alliance, to doctor the votes cast to ensure that the SNP narrowly fail to get sufficient votes in a large number of seats. This is a re-run of the referendum and I expect us to get close but not close enough. I hope I am totally wrong but I think we have years of work ahead of us.
I am giving up for the moment here. My posts disappear for 30+ mins so, just in case it is my name I initial and find that these posts disappear down the U bend but crawl their way back up several hours later. I haven’t changed any cookie controls and I actually allow trackers from this site only.
I am going demented and pulling my fur out.
Just caught Reporting Scotland headlines – guess what, there is a GP CRISIS in Scotland.
Well knock me down with a feather
Thank you for saying what I was thinking, even though I didn’t realise it was what I was thinking!
I’ll try and word this carefully so no-one takes offence!
The SNP is an anomaly. Scottish Independence is logically a movement and should never have become a political party.
Independence is neither left wing nor right wing, it has no social or economic policies.
However, in their pragmatism, supporters of Scottish Independence did create a political party – as the perfect way to further their cause in the most democratic and peaceful way available. They do not want independence if the majority do not support it, and they do not want the price of independence to be violence or oppression.
So, (as many a Project Manager is fond of saying), we are where we are.
The SNP is an anomaly but it is here and it is here to stay. It has evolved to become a legitimate political party. It has adopted the social and economic policies which it believes best fit the needs of Scotland and which resemble the aspirations of the Scottish electorate (that’s not to say their policies are the best or most representative, but that’s the intention – and IMHO they’ve got it pretty darn close).
Before I was old enough to vote, I used to say that I wanted to vote Liberal in an independent Scotland. So until Scotland was independent I would vote SNP. Before devolution, the SNP had no purpose in the eyes of voters other than to force a vote on Independence. Logically, if that ever came to pass, they would disband.
But the world changed and devolution happened. Not only that, but the SNP realised that it could govern the devolved parts of Scotland as well as any other political party and the electorate in Scotland agreed. Since then they’ve proved themselves to be a competent and intelligent political party.
I think the referendum (and others may agree), came about too soon. I think the SNP knew that, but they also knew they couldn’t throw away the chance because it might be the only one.
So now, post-referendum, we are in the situation where we’re not independent, but we are left with a political party which represents the views and aspirations of a great many of he Scottish electorate (even those who don’t support them, or who don’t want independence).
Independence may be the long term goal, but we don’t want it unless the majority do, and we don’t want it at any cost. So in the meantime, we take the pragmatic approach (again) and make the best of what we have within the democratic process we are part of.
But Westminster can’t cope with that. The SNP are an anomaly, but so is the UK. It is simply not designed to cope with disparate, lopsided nations who are pulling in different directions. Scotland was never too small to be independent, but it was always too small to be part of a union with a country the size of England. Westminster got round it before by having single parties which absorbed the smaller nations (excluding NI) but now one of the smaller nations has set itself apart and won’t play ball.
What the Westminster parties are trying to do now is to rally against the Scottish Independence movement. They’re trying to de-legitimise it by asserting that it doesn’t belong in Westminster. But people aren’t voting for the Scottish Independence movement in May, they will be voting for the SNP which has evolved into a legitimate political party. The Westminster parties can rant and rave all they like, but it won’t make them right. They cannot legally or morally exclude whatever MPs UK residents decide to send to their UK government to represent them.
I watched QT last night and it was a stark reminder of how ridiculous the situation is. It is becoming blindingly obvious that the UK as a democracy doesn’t work with Scotland in it. That was always the case, but the change in people’s political leanings mean it’s now glaring us straight in the face.
Sadly, the only thing Westminster could do to help make it work – by compromising and working to include Scotland’s choice of MPs – will never happen, and the MSM will use their power to demonise the SNP and make sure it doesn’t.
@Bugger (the Panda), I gave up using Google Chrome as was having similar problems but only with WoS.
I now use Internet Explorer
This Question Time farce has upset us, obviously, and it’s tempting to find out if they’re even fully aware that the programme is broadcast in Scotland.
But, since it is, any point in suggesting to them that, in a general election period, it is undemocratic for this question to have been aired without the SNP having an immediate right of reply?
On the other hand, it is possible that the SNP are happy for the Question Time panels to do their job for them.
It could be that a small Conservative win would need the DUP to prop them up
How come that’s OK, I seem to remember, correct me if i’m wrong here somebody, that the DUP blew up, and shot, and maimed quite a few folk in their quest for power in their wee bitty of the Yoo Knighted Kingdum
The SNP nor it’s supporters at any time ever threatened to, or even give anybody so much as a Wedgy
So i definitely think we can all rule out the threat of a Physical thumping from our team
Could it be they’re just afraid of a showing up
Nah, it must just be so distasteful to the ruling classes that us Moronic Upitty Jocks have the temerity to think we might have been born equal
My father used to say “We are all born equal but some of us are born more equal than others”
Trouble with that is a lot of the folk Dahn Sahf actually believe that coz they don’t know any different
And who’s fault’s that?
The ruling classes my friends
liz says @ 51.15pm
Ahem
Cartiona Shearer BBC says @ 08.53am
Ochone ochone
“the BMA has (yawn) warned that Scotland faces a GP recruitment CRISIS” (arg flee, run for your lives)
“With almost a fifth of practices reporting a vacancy” (OMG there are job vacancies for doctors in Scotland whatever shall we do?)
“However (sotto voce) the Scottish government has said Scotland has more GP’s per head of population than England”
(at least I think that’s what she said because I couldn’t quite hear her for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on )
________________________________________
R-type Grunt,
Affirmative.
That is indeed what she said.
But then, she also voted for more austerity for the disabled.
Lower than a snakes belly.
Charles Kennedy was definitely pished out of his mind bet he cant even remember being on the programme
@btp,
After you post your comment, append the url with (?), which should give you an instant refresh.
For example, http://www.whateverpage.com?
You should see your comment within one or two tries.
@ Jim Murphy
Hope you heard that. Labour and the SNP are different parties. Get your own policies. 🙂
Probably the biggest issue during my late pre-teens, was the popular overthrow of the South African apartheid regime. Though I didn’t really understand the big picture then, I remember my almost allergic reaction to the BBC’s coverage of the matter (I grew up in a BBC household, maybees as they were to be trusted, or maybees ’cause they didn’t run adds). Anyway, I was bemused by what I perceived and now understand as an intrinsic hostility to human dignity.
I never imagined I live to see the day when Scotland was effectively facing the prospect of being designated a ‘township’. Or is my imagination running wild?
link to mondoweiss.net
@ Jim Murphy
Why does Israel merit statehood while Scotland doesn’t?
Its all I can say. link to youtube.com
link to bbc.co.uk
The brilliant Morag from Dundee appears at 2h44:48
This is democracy, suck it up!
What H said, Hislop defended our right to vote SNP and for them to represent the Scottish voters.
And he supported the Greens in part too.
Have to say you’ve taken it a bit out of context and exaggerated the show in this instance.
There’s no SNP representative as there’s no SNP candidate standing.
“Have to say you’ve taken it a bit out of context”
Eh? I’ve shown the entire 16-odd minutes.
Ok, if we’re going to ban political parties who seek to ‘break up uGB’ shouldn’t that also include Labour and the Lib Dems?
Whether or not Mr Kennedy was drunk distracts from our main complaint.
The man did look tired and ill but that could be for any number of reasons.
Should it be the case that he has had an alcoholic relapse (which I doubt)our tone should be one of sympathy.
@ Wee Johnny: They have the media, the BBC etc., we have the people.reminds me of one of my late father’s favourite tales.
At an Engineering Society dinner in the Grovener(?) in Glasgow a buddy was sounding off at the bar that he’d been a fighter pilot in WW2. “That’s nothing”, said my Dad’s pal, big Alistair from Islay, “I was a sergeant in the Argylls”.
To be fair to Ian Hislop he did say that the Scots were perfectly entitled to vote for whoever they wanted.
He also said his preferred coalition was Labour/Conservative because he is very pro Uk and obviously sees this as the solution. (eejit)
Brilliant stuff Stu, as usual.
I’m away on to my second nip now, so I’ve got enough courage to point out that you spelled justification wrong. Only noticed because I pasted it into facebook.
Jst sayin like 🙂
Excerpt from the Tarff Advertiser Peter Thomsons blog:
link to tarffadvertiser.blogspot.co.uk
The constitutional issue becomes more interesting as a majority of SNP MPs after May 2015 means they will now represent the ‘considered will of the people of Scotland’ at Westminster. This means that for any UK Bill effecting Scotland to succeed, whether Tory or Labour, will need the agreement of the SNP under the terms of Article 19 of the Treaty of Union.
Lord Cooper made clear in 1953 that Scotland had not been subsumed by England by the Treaty of Union and that the purely English constitutional concept of ‘the crown in parliament’ had no equivalence in Scotland, as under the Claim of Right (1689) entrenched by the Treaty of Union, the people of Scotland are sovereign by nature of their considered will being paramount.
Lord Cooper’s legal point regarding ‘the considered will of the people of Scotland being paramount’ was tested in AXA et al vs the Lord Advocate in 2011 and, contrary to the BBC view, at the time, that the Scottish Parliament was facing humiliation, the UK Supreme Court found against AXA et al because the bill of the Scottish Parliament reflected the ‘considered will of the people of Scotland’ which is paramount.
I know I will have just spent a wasted 20 minutes typing this because the BBC is not an impartial news organisation, it is no longer interested in the integrity of its offerings and is now the British State Broadcaster, beholden to the British Establishment and the status quo, so Mr Cook’s erroneous interpretation will remain unchanged and uncorrected.
The BBC is now no better than the old Soviet State Pravda.
@ platinum
Go Morag! She was brilliant “Suck it up”
Use American Redneck Voice
Democracy is what i say it is boy!!!!
We’re hearing the same thing in a “British” accent
Liz
I use Firefox but have tried Opera, and now Torch.
Same bloody stuff.
Beginning to get paranoid now.
Oh God, Charlie’s been drinking again, hasn’t he?
Should the Act of Union be interpreted through “today’s” eyes or through the eyes of those at the time it was written? A lot has changed since 1707!
How does the law view such old contracts. “I am not my brother’s keeper”…
BtP
It’s not you!
I use firefox…my posts are delayed.
I use chrome…my posts are delayed.
I use firefox on my daughter’s laptop…posts ok.
I think it’s Stu’s site somehow being selective!
@Blind Unicorn
That was a fantastic, cogent post full of excellent sound bites.
“Independence may be the long term goal, but we don’t want it unless the majority do, and we don’t want it at any cost.”
“Scotland was never too small to be independent, but it was always too small to be part of a union with a country the size of England.”
Amen brother.
Now if you could just train every member of this cohort of SNP candidates standing in the GE to talk like that we would be unstoppable.
I would just like to point out that – as someone who was born in England and chose to move here –
Please however difficult it seems, do not attack the English they are our neighbours.
They do seem very misguided, but then, they are closer to Westminster.
@ Bugger t Panda,
Why don’t you get a Mac/PC “Expert” in to check all your settings, connections and hardware?
Last summer I had a lot of problems with loading some programmes, slow build-up or only reading but no writing capabilities. It was a mix of problems with no real logical source.
After my PC doctor did some checks for a day or two, they found the problem.
One of the sectors on the hard drive was defect, a bit like having a scratched music LP, but it caused other niggling things which drive you barmy. They swapped it for a new disc with double the capacity, checked everything/settings etc. Cost altogether bout € 280,–.
Now everything moves like greased lightning, (like Murphy’s expense forms…!)
Dr Jim says @ 5.33pm
“The SNP nor it’s supporters at any time ever threatened to, or even give anybody so much as a Wedgy”
Eh… that’s not quite true,
em …there was this wee nyaff in Kirkcaldy during the egg incident, he was .. well he wound me up aannd I sort of …
well I didn’t give him a wedgy,
Nooo I gave him an atomic wedgy he had his pit pants ower his heed, there I said it. 🙁
Im with Paula Rose on that one
they’re more to be pitied than scorned,
Will ye stoap gein me Chinese burns noo PR? 🙁
BtP
Just because your paranoid
doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
jus sayin sa’ll.
I’m watching this on my missus’ tablet – she’ll be awfy pi55ed off when I smash it against the wall!
Hi Paula Rose.
You didn’t move “here”, you moved to Brechin, the ancestral home of the ‘Doonthetoons’.
And it serves you right – although I must say, it suits you. Bet you never got to Flicks though.
link to eveningtelegraph.co.uk
dougiekdy
“she’ll be awfy pi55ed off when I smash it against the wall!”
I always make a point of not smashing her (my wife not yours) tablet against the wall,
it helps with not getting powdered glass in my dinner I always find. 😉
Darlings – you are so lovely.
Flicks – the last outpost of northern soul.
Wee John Kingie – I will stop punishing you if you admit you’re a donkey.
I’m very upset – I’m a very nice person, I can’t do terror – can I just do nice lovey stuff?
hee haw hee haw hee haw
Hi Paula Rose.
For you…
link to youtube.com
@ John King – forgiven.
[…] the SNP pose a clear and present danger to the UK establishment, using language that’s little different from that they use to describe terrorist organisations or rogue states. Even following the […]
Coalition /Co- operation or not, If the tories get a smallish Majority, they still won’t be able to get anything through if both labour AND the SNP mps choose to oppose it.
So there will be a coalition of sorts even if it’s not formal or even discussed. As pointed out in stus previous post, that leaves every single decision open to public scrutiny (for the SNP as well as Labour) hurrah for actual democracy dragged kicking and screaming into the light deformed and uncooperative as it will be.
Pass the popcorn!
@BtP
All this technology moves in mysterious ways .
I use an oldish Mac and post is almost instant , 10 secs while the cogs turn , then bingo it’s there.
My daughters I-pad2 keeps my detail and posts after a wee while .
I acquired a used I-Pad 3 so I can enjoy WOS anytime FFS the newest bit of technology in the Hoos and its a good 20 Mins before the post shows up & I gotta type in my info every ef ing time !
We are all in the same boat , in more ways than one . Hang in there .
Natalie Bennett was the only one speaking sense, along with the bearded Mannie in the audience, the rest are gobshites especially yellow Charlie, geessa dram. Their media really does hate these Scots
Dumb Unicorn @ 5.15pm.
That was a very good post,hit the spot for me.
I always thought that the Scottish parliament was never formally “shut down” hence the saying “The Scottish Parliament is reconvened”.
I am certainly no expert in these matters but would like others thoughts on that.
Top of the agenda if SNP win in Scotland “broadcasting/media to
Be devolved to Holyrood” This is so vital to our “CULTURAL” future.
And why •London control ” of “British state propaganda” ensured the
Referendum result and denied the democratic will of the Scottish
Electorate
Is QT not one of the programmes supposedly made by BBC Scotland? If so, makes even more of a mockery of this BBC ‘arrangement”.
@north chile 11:05pm
Totally agree most important. Definitely a must. Número uno.
Neutralise the propaganda of EBC.
Partner just mentioned before she went to bed a wee while ago that she completed an online survey regarding her views on a (possible) new BBC Scottish TV channel.
Anyone else heard or done the same survey?
They would bomb us if they could get away with it. Media controlled ethnic cleansing. They care not, but we may just the last laugh.
This is my first post but I have been following this site for some time. I would just like to say if Stu had been on that panel and spoke word for word what he just said the audience ( not all ) would have changed their tune. It is so frustrating that no one sticks up for our democratic right to participate. If anyone from the SNP had said it though I think the English press (British) would have had a field day, but someone like Stu would have got the Audience attention. Any chance of getting on Question Time Stu.
Rev, that Trackback at the bottom of the article by the Little Underground was so relative. It almost made me weep to read. It also made me a little bit scared of the future of this England that I live in.
A bit o/t but perhaps not. I’ve been examining the wording used recently by MSM and wonder if the SNP must field a candidate somewhere outside our country.
A key thing for opinion polls and MSM garbage is to refer to “National Parties” and we face (ideally) the situation where Scotland has no BlueTor MP’s, no LimpCondom MP’s and a couple of labour MP’s.
But even in such an event, the SNP would be declined inclusion in QT as it is NOT a national party. Despite our country not having any national party MP’s.
If what makes a party a “National Party”, surely then the SNP must field a sacrificial lamb south of the border. Be as funny as hell if they won!
Pretty disgusting that virtually all of the voices are horrified at SNP being in power. Scotland has been ruled by Westminster by parties that do not represent us for years
‘I will always support Israel’ – Jim Murphy
@ Jim Murphy
Why are you able to support an Israeli state but not a Scottish state?
link to commonspace.scot
My reading of Gus O’Donnel’s comments are that they are a pre-emptive shot across the SNP’s bows should they win a plurality of Scottish seats and seek to leverage that. The response will be that they didn’t win a majority of the vote so can have no legitimacy to speak for Scotland. Just wait.
The response to the SNP by the westmonster parties and MSM are fairly predictable. Scotland sought to establish it’s settled will in the referendum but it was hijacked by the establishment. Leaving the will undecided and far from settled.
Ge2015 is our first opportunity to test the unionists assertions and once again they are coming up short. There is nothing more important than standing up for Scotland against all odds. If we don’t we will be undermined until we are no longer able to establish what Scotland wants or be able to afford it.
For me the motto ‘ Nemo me impune lacessit ‘ (No one provokes me with impunity) of the Royal Regiment of Scotland says it all. We have been provoked during the referendum and now we are testing the assertion that we are better together.
After 7th May we will know whether our aim is to improve or abandon Westmonster. What is absolutely clear is that things will not be the same.
@June Maxwell says:13 March, 2015 at 1:17 pm:
“Wish Wings material could be canned and fed to the gullible and ignorant.”
Very true, June, it cannot be canned and fed but it can be disseminated and distributed. That is our, the readership and commenters, job.
[…] hundreds of headlines and comments equating radicalism to horrendous acts of violence and tragedy, what do you think would happen when you use that same term in reference to thousands of peaceful, law-abiding individuals who seek […]