A terminal decline
We rarely do stat posts now, because readership has settled to a pretty steady level (generally bobbing between around 250,000 and 300,000 users a month) and we’ve run out of ways to blow our own trumpet. But we’re making an exception this month.
The snide, arrogant, pompous and casually factually-inaccurate comment above was made by a founder/editor of a rather less popular Scottish political website. And in the (statistically unlikely) event that you happened to read it and became concerned, we thought you’d like a little more information about our “ever-decreasing readership”.
The 381,897 unique readers who visited Wings in May represented the biggest number who’ve done so in any one month since September 2014. They came despite there – for various reasons – only being 36 posts over the 31 days, the lowest number since we posted just 29 in March 2012.
They came in a month at the beginning of which another prominent Scottish politics website had published a column demanding that people boycott Wings, saying:
(Nor is it a simple correlation with general elections. Last year our biggest month was April with 366,000 visitors – followed by March with 344,000 – but in 2016 April was our worst month of the year so far, well over 100,000 behind May.)
We’re not going to go on about it. We just wanted you to know that you weren’t alone.
“It’s the same reader, reloading the page 381,897 times!”
I guarantee you that there’s a bitter unionist somewhere tweeting that right now.
You realise Stu that when Independence happens (I pray its when and not if) the likes of the creators/contributors to Bella et al will become the official heros of new media and sites like this and Newsnet will vanish from the official history and be of interest only to spotty students doing dull PhDs in the internet and political history.
Snobish elites tend to write history.
“You realise Stu that when Independence happens (I pray its when and not if) the likes of the creators/contributors to Bella et al will become the official heros of new media and sites like this and Newsnet will vanish from the official history and be of interest only to spotty students doing dull PhDs in the internet and political history.
Snobish elites tend to write history.”
That’s why our centre-column quote is what it is, man 🙂
PeakStuey PeakNat
Just because they wish it doesn’t mean it’s happening.
It’s WOS for me.
WGD , Boris , GB Etc all do us a great service.
And if my day permits reading all the great posts.
Not been spewing my coffee over the keyboard so much lately tho’ !
Thank you all , hardly covers it.
@ Rogue Coder
I wouldn’t mind if it was Unionists. Sadly it’s often people we’re meant to be sort of on the same team as.
I mean, I don’t expect Wings, Bella, CS and so on to agree on everything. Diversity and healthy debate are necessary and show that the independence movement is a broad church with people from different backgrounds and social, cultural and political persuasions. But the direct attacks on Wings by Bella and CS, even in opinion pieces, have been horrible to see.
I mean, the Rev is no Saint and there are times when I disagree with him. But full articles in fellow pro indy sites? The whole point of alternative media is to do different things from the mainstream ones. Plenty of Wings and SNP bashing in the MSM.
I’m still enjoying Wings – plenty to talk about 🙂
No idea who K W is though :/
There are many excellent pro-indy sites around. Wings is… sorry, wait till I put on my Tina Turnet wig… # Simply the best… #
I’m thinking you’ll be around for a while yet.
Maybe others should pay more attention to their own readership figures and ask themselves why they haven’t worked out quite the way they hoped.
Bella has some good articles, but I wish they could bloody proofread them for spelling errors before publishing. Such errors are annoying, and makes the website appear unprofessional.
They also have very few comments on most of their articles, giving the impression that either few people are reading, or that nobody cares enough to reply. A pity, because they can be good. The more pro-indy voices there are, the better.
Was going to apologize for getting Tina’s name wrongly spelt, but now I think I prefer it as it stands.
I believe the technical term for the pseudo Anarcho-Trot who published the post critical of this site whilst lying through his or her teeth, is “wanker”.
Wonder how well the Bella crowd funder is going?
Not really.
Ach, you and your numbers and facts. What a failure. 🙂
I should have thought, though, that’s there’s room for plenty of politics sites in Scotland, but when I see things like the example given above, of one site proclaiming how good it is by trying to pick a fight with others, it tends to make me think less highly of whoever is doing the snide whining.
I do not think I can be alone in that, so it would be pretty good if all the various Scottish political sites would just get on with doing their things to the best of their ability rather than turning on others who are broadly on the same side. Scotland will benefit from lively and thoughtful discussion of issues more than from wee playground squabbles.
You’re clearly doing a lot right then, is all I can conclude. Out of interest, does Bella et al publish their own statistics?
Just a wee touch of jealousy creeping in methinks!
Shame though, we should all be working together.
Still they will get a few unionists passing by,rubbing their soiled wee mitts together just to hear them slagging off Wings and the
SNP.
Right, so now that this issue has been clarified what’s next?
Seems that some folks thrive on creating aggro, which is up to them, but in my opinion it’s totally misdirected.
There is a pretty obvious place for Scottish Independanistas to focus their ire – in fact they paint targets on their own heads regularly – so I suggest looking out for them, and channelling all the righteous criticism their way 😉
That snidey attitude from the “other” lot is why I don’t tend to stray!
Personally, if I’m told someone/something is awfy bad, that’s exactly the reason to visit…
I’m contrary that way. 🙂
“Out of interest, does Bella et al publish their own statistics?”
I’ve never seen any other Scottish politics sites offer any sort of evidence for their readership claims, for some reason. I mean, all we put up are screenshots from our stats pages, but those would be easily enough verified if challenged.
I well remember the undertaking you gave in the aftermath of the IndyRef that so long as we, your supporters and contributors were here, you would be here. And the relief I felt at reading that commitment. You have more than honoured that pledge, Rev Stu and thank you for that.
Wings Over Scotland is not just a website or blog but represents a unique aspect of our Scottish “zeitgeist” (def: the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time).
What you have achieved is an inspirational and educational space for Scottish independence supporters and particularly, activists, in the wider Yes movement.
I suspect that for every one of those stats above, there are several times more readers who dip in and out as their time allows.
Thanks to you and all the contributors and commentators, I have learned so much from you all. Slainte mhath!!
Now just remember that lots of those unique visitors take a peek down here as well as reading the proof-read stuff up there, so keep it nice xxx
Bet this article’s headline pulls in aw the zoomers cause they think it’s ‘an admission’…
*waves at zoomerati… Gotcha!* 🙂
I blame the SNP and the failure of Scottish Primary Schools to properly teach the Yoons rithmetic!
It is also the SNPs fault that the Yoons are tearing lumps out of each other on the Eton school yard. Well when they are blaming Johnny Foreigner for it that is.
I also blame the SNP for Scotland’s failure to get a shot on target the other night.
Fit div ye mean the BBC/STV beat me to it already!
@ David at 12.32
Common Space is desperately in need of a good proof-reader too; I’ve sent them a number of factual corrections (not publicly – I don’t want to embarrass them and would rather let them quietly rectify their mistakes) but have given up since there has been no obvious improvement in either typo-spotting or fact-checking. It all looks as if it was rushed out at the last minute, which is a shame if they aspire to be good journalists.
Still, they’re not as bad as The National, and no-one is in the Grauniad’s league.
[…] Wings Over Scotland A terminal decline We rarely do stat posts now, because readership has settled to a pretty steady level […]
I used to follow Bella, but I started to get an uneasy feeling that it was a false flag operation considering the number of snide remarks on other independents and the SNP. I won’t be donating.
If we don’t pull together we’re doomed.
We were taught that lesson in the history of the wars of independence – when we got beaten it was because of lack of cohesion.
We can all get back to fighting each other after independence, buy until then we should work together.
The Rev’s wings glide over Scotland
other sites have to flap very hard and still
can’t catch up!
@ Les Wilson says at 12:39 am …. ”Just a wee touch of jealousy creeping in methinks!”
Yeah jealous that they didn’t come up with the brilliant idea of combatting media propaganda on a daily basis …. and producing facts to support claims. Other ‘greats’ like Robertson and Ponsonby are doing a good job too and of course those who are talented and use youtube, such as Ron Windward. Maybe you should start putting your articles on there too, Stu, and block comments …. refer them to this site.
Anyway happy to know that I’m not on my own here, lol (maybe I am as it’s getting late) and I’m a pro-Indy Government cheerleader. Righty! Go Nicola go, go Alex go, go Stu go …. Ra, Ra, Ra.
They’re just jealous, once again. Bet they wish they had cheerleaders like US supporting THEM.
link to youtube.com
Perhaps the others have reached their “Pique”
In reply to their last email (For cash) I asked them not to contact me again for any reason
Yep, definitely time to put the keyboard away, Stuart. This site allow you to compare 2 sites’ (very basic) stats.
link to similarweb.com
It’s interesting that the average time on site for Bella in April was only 1:34 compared to Wings’ 2:52. I suppose that’s just about enough time for punters to get a couple of paragraphs into the latest dreary Trot drivel and click elsewhere before they lose the will to live.
Personally, I find the alternating hectoring/preachy tone of much of the Bella content very off-putting. Other than the visitor stats and the occasional Twitter argument with the editor, I can’t think what their problem with this site could be.
On an unrelated note, how is their latest crowdfunding getting on? It’s been a going couple of weeks now, right? They must have smashed their target by now.
After the referendum on Scottish independence, Mike Small made a conscious effort to expand the scope of Bella Caledonia. Unfortunately, in doing so he has killed it for a lot of people.
I stopped subscribing to Bella Caledonia when the irritation factor got too much for me. First of all there were the ghastly navel-gazing articles on where pro-indy activists went wrong, with implications that even enthusiasm was a negative rather than a positive. Presumably this was some kind of nod to objectivity which backfired – I don’t know how how an attempt at neutrality can come across as a lack of principle, but Mike Small did it.
Then the sickeningly sentimental ‘one year on from the day after the referendum’ (by someone whose name escapes me, mercifully).
Even worse, Mike Small broke the first rule of blogging: stick to your chosen field. OK, other Scottish bloggers like to parrot the Guardian line on international affairs but Bella Caledonia chooses to ram it down your throat. Eg. Letter from Kurdistan, which deals with radicalisation of young Muslims. The writer proposes that a major cause of radicalisation is ‘the West’s support for Bashar al-Assad in Syria’. Huh? This was written in 2015, we’d had Cameron and Obama on the airwaves with their ‘Assad must go’ mantra for four years, and there is plenty of evidence that the ‘uprising’ is sponsored by the West. But no disagreement from Bella Caledonia’s editor.
A few months later came an article which finished Bella Caledonia for a number of readers: Idrees Ahmad’s call to invade Syria, citing the long-debunked claim that the Syrian government was responsible for the sarin attack on Gouta.
Comments include:’It is hugely disappointing that this article should appear in Bella given that most people view this site as an alternative to main stream propaganda on Scotland. To then parrot the same MSM propaganda on Syria is unforgivable.’ ‘I certainly never expected to see such obvious propaganda and mis-information on Bella.’ ‘wtf’.
Wings over Scotland has in general remained focused on issues to do with Scotland: Scottish independence, Scottish government, UK government and the EU where relevant. It should continue to do so.
And while the SNP is the party most focused on Scottish independence, and its detractors vilify it for precisely that reason, Wings and other pro-independence blogs should be careful about undermining the party (though that doesn’t have to mean never critising its decisions).
O/T Another tip that blogs could take from Wings over Scotland: when Wings had a fundraiser, a detailed budget was given, down to the salary paid the editor (Rev Stuart Campbell). As I recall Bella’s fundraiser last year had a very sketchy budget outline. This year’s is better but actual figures, including the editor’s salary, are conspicuously absent. This could be another reason why donations to Bella have been so low this year.
They are asking for donations again.
I’ve unsubscribed from they’re emails at least 6 times this year but they still keep sending them.
I think they are looking at they’re Livelihood’s now instead of what the future of Scotland needs.
Looks like that call to boycott WoS at the beginning of May was a resounding success, eh no’…
I would support Bella and I hope it survives. Lots of indy voices can only help. We don’t have to agree on everything (occasionally even Wings gets my goat – attitude to Gaelic and processed food for instance – but hey, that’s fine…)
The only time I thought Bella lost it was when it became so intolerant of others who broadly support the SNP approach to winning over No voters gradually. ‘Quietism!’ raged the editorial – no, I’d never heard of it either – but was surprised at the vehemence against anyone who didn’t agree with Bella’s more ‘radical’ approach.
I have never once subscribed to BC because I knew of arguments from the beginning. It’s first hard copy was OK, then they thought it easier to blether on the ether.
The only disagreement I have ever had with Wings was over Gaelic/ MY PC was of that week, so I never got to reply, or even see it, just heard about it.
I found wings invaluable for quality information and good followers. Some of the pseuds following BC, I know to be snidey Guardian types, too superior to support the SNP, who are delivering the goods. Wings is abune them ‘a. The SSP will never Rise.
Am searching for a photograph and hope to scan it shortly.
Stan Green Obituary
Stanley Green. B. 30.04.44. D. 28.05.16. Funeral. Daldowie Crematorium 2 pm Hamilton Rd, Glasgow G71 7RU. Reception after. Anvil Inn, 202 Smithycroft Road, Glasgow. G33 2RF.
Stan suffered a long battle against cancer, but was always cheerful up to the end and never dwelled on his illness, usually talking politics. When I saw him being wheeled from chemotherapy treatment, follicley challenged and minus his ponytail, he remarked that he only came here for a haircut. Being an avid reader his visitors brought him books. Last week someone brought him a history of the Gorbals and was told he was glad it was not War and Peace, or he would never know the ending. He had a good rapport with all the hospital staff, particularly the “ethnics”, who gave him as good they got, one Indian nurse in particular. He was always full of praise for all the staff and after care services and was a great supporter of the NHS, hating those who tried to “weaponise” the NHS.
He was devoted to his late mother and brother and his new adopted family friends since 1981; also local community activists, Margaret, Malcolm Harris and daughter, as well as his wider community family of Easterhouse and Scotland. The Harris family looked after him in his declining years, including his funeral wishes and will. Leaving his libraries of books to local activists.
He was involved with Easterhouse Welfare Rights campaign, Easterhouse Voice and the Easterhouse Festival Society with the late Grace and Kiernan Grant. The Voice paper fought fearlessly for every amenity possible in the cultural desert and fought local corruption and criminal elements. They fought for things like the Shopping Centres, swimming baths, housing, etc.
The Festival won a Fringe First with the late Glasgow Irish Poet Freddie Anderson’s Krassivy Play, “Beautiful and Red”, based on Hugh MacDiarmid’s poem of John MacLean. Many of the local captors made it on the big screen and are now well known, such as Gary Stevens.
Stan was an organiser of Wendy Wood’s Scottish Patriots and an active member of the cross party Scottish Republican Socialist Clubs 1973, just after its formation in 1973. It became the Scottish Republican Socialist Party in 1981, then back to a cross Scottish Republican Socialist Movement in 1989 to join the Scottish Socialist Party, not believing in a party within a party. Stan, with others, decided not to join the SSP, declaring that the very British left had more splits than the Tiller Girls and more academic somersaults than the Bolshoi Ballet and predicted that was how they would end. He continued working for the local SNP candidate and the Yes campaign. He was also keen on International affairs, particularly Labour’s Invasion of Ireland in 1969. He was not Irish and just thought it was right to oppose British Imperialism. He asked to be buried in his SRSM colours, red Shirt and black truibhs, with the SRSM flag, draped on his coffin. The flag has a Sideways Saltire in the first third filed and a Golden Crinan everlasting Celtic knot in the centre of the remaindered field. The red is for the blood of the workers and the gold is for the prosperity of an Independent Socialist Scotland, symbolising past, present and future.
Stan will go out as he lived, a Scottish Republican Socialist, defiant the last.
Rev Stu,
Due to working abroad, I rely on your daily articles to remind me that there is still a hope amongst the people of a better future.
I first started reading the articles on your site back in 2012 but didn’t really become addicted until just before the Indyref.
Since then, I have checked everyday and since January last year, your website is turned on in the morning when I get to work and is switched off when I leave. The same goes for WGD, Scot Goes Pop and Newsnet. I often refer to the links of other blogs from your site to get differing views which all in all I believe gives me a more balanced viewpoint.
I cannot abide Bella these days nor Common Space. It was a couple of months back that I read something in BC which completely turned me off from it – Can’t even remember what it was now.
Anyway, I’m rambling when all I wanted to do was say thankyou for doing a brilliant job.
KW?
I have no idea who or why Kevin W…… is. What I can clearly tell is that he is labouring under a heavy burden of extreme envy.
Like someone else on here, I have a real problem with the lack of basic literacy skills with a few of the other sites. I think I even offered to proof read for one of them at one point! CS has no excuse as they have an SNP-bashing, would-be-Rise-MSP-cum-English-teacher on their books,
“Scotland needs radical ideas, fresh thinking” fuck off ya cheeky prick! you’d think we were all just sitting about doing fuck all. Wanker.
@Donald Anderson That article about Gaelic did more good for the language and getting people interested in learning it than if it had been written any other way.
(easy to find – “the lesser of two stupids”)
Speaking as one of the small independence sites, the reason my essay site exists is because Wings showed the way.
In terms of readership numbers it doesn’t compare – you could describe ‘Grouse Beater’ fairly as an evening or weekend read, Wings a daily newspaper with almost 500 hard-won followers but a ton of ‘likes’. Bella reads to me like a dip in and out magazine. (I repeat myself here)
Yesterday was an average day – I had 1,508 hits, of which 1,284 were unique visitors, the others regulars. Of the regulars many drop in from Wings, few from Bella.
I love to see WordPress advise “Your stats are buzzing.” But I don’t mind people leaving; it’s when they come at me that I get nervous.
In the task of reclaiming our country from the neoliberals and corporate tyranny there’s room for more than one main independence site differing in content and presentation style, but no room for squabbling or gratuitous attack.
Fall into that trap and we’re fulfilling the gibe of ugly unionists. I don’t know who said it, maybe it was me!: A Scot is his worst enemy – warring clans carving territory and status for nothing much in return, to the smug relief of Westminster and its lackeys.
Here’s the latest offering: link to wp.me
I’m off to corrupt London, then Exeter, and maybe beyond. After all, the continent is our playground – we’re warned everybody else is coming in our direction!
Oops, Guardian-type Erratum: “Wings a daily newspaper. My site has only about 500 hard-won followers…”
My name is Grouse Beater and I approved this commercial.
3rd rate Unionist/(non) Green rejects at it again trying to destroy the Scottish economy with their pathetic lies. Westminster cheaters and liars. They are beneath contempt.
This is a spat that isn’t worth having. I read and enjoy Wings, Newsnet, Bella and the Wee Ginger Dog. They are distinct offers with their own styles and different perspectives. That’s what we need in the Scottish media.
I found out who KW is
It is not Kevin but you have 3 letters right
Gentle note about hubris and complacency…
Wings continues to thrive, but elsewhere there is a destructive lack of focus and forward momentum for the wider facets of the pro independence movement. All the respective engines cruising back in 2014 are currently ticking over on idle, and finding themselves prone to stalling or overheating.
Every one of these sites should be encouraged, even if you don’t especially like them. Without any constructive or sympathetic discussion of pro independence arguments over broadcast media, printed and online discussion is all we’ve got and we need all the outlets we can support. I don’t excuse their own efforts at shooting themselves in the foot, but to err is human, to forgive is good for the pro independence cause.
It strikes me all of these disparate sites are lacking the same thing, and that is leadership and direction from the centre; a common focus to really throw their weight behind. Until the next big YES battle, are all rebel militia milling around idling for the fight. We need to be much better co-ordinated or we risk destroying ourselves.
So Bella dared to raise the spectre of SNP “quietism”, and lacklustre momentum? What bastards eh?…. Except, it strikes me that might actually be a constructive debate to be having right now. Is that policy working? Has that policy peaked? Is it still eroding core unionism? How can active participants best augment a passive campaign, if we are all agreed that’s the best campaign to be running? Isn’t that a constructive discussion to be having so we are all singing from the same hymn sheet come Indyref 2?
But no, that constructive debate doesn’t happen, and instead we hoist a few heretic Yes martyrs onto the pyres which they apparently built for themselves, and launch ourselves behind the …. Wings over Scotland campaign. Dancing with a firey death myself, what is the essential difference between Bella criticising the SNP for being lacklustre, and Wings for producing the Wee Black Book to outshine any and all output from SNP Mission Control? Isn’t that the same de facto criticism of SNP inactivity? Can we vote Wings next election? Seems to me it’s a more committed and potent force than shhh! You know who.
Isn’t there something missing here? Like a ‘central’ campaign driven by something like the pro independence collective? I might have said driven by the SNP, but “driven” just isn’t the right word they seem comfortable using. Think positive and talk to your neighbours…, right? Keep contributing funds to blogs; approved blogs that is, not any old shit. Hey ho. Maybe the SNP doesn’t actually want the leadership job.
Heaven forbid, the softly, softly osmosis of pro independence positive thinking should ever turn out to be a cover story for the lack of a robust strategic battle plan for victory. It isn’t. Right? You do have a campaign running to confound the BBC propaganda don’t you? You do know how to build more support for a YES vote next time around? Don’t you?
Oh shit. Here I go again. Asking awkward questions of the SNP. You’d think I’d know better by now….
(Insert Call My Bluff theme tune)…. Fade…
Other blog sites have every right to support and print what they want and I have every right to keep my donations in my pocket. I hate snobbery of any sort, patronising intellectual elitism most of all. When these same self described “intellectuals” then attack me as an unquestioning fundamentalist, cheerleader while asking for my money to support them they can fcuk right off. They are “doing a Ratner” and they can’t see it.
Ponsonby puts it way better and if you read the whole article you will find out who KW is.:-)
link to indyref2.scot
Rev, at least you had the decency in not responding by naming & shaming this KW. Not a household name, not even in his ain hoose one suspects & obviously not very clued-up in the fundraising department.
No comment, just a 🙂
link to derekbateman.scot
I suspect that I’m like many of the readers of Wings that want to see a socially just Scotland without going to the extreme socialism being promoted by some. Now I realise that the starting points are very differeent but one only has to look no further than the current situation in Venezuela where ‘extreme socialism’ has manifestly failed to deliver a citizens paradise. Having said that we must never shut our eyes and ears to any idea which in an amended form might well help to deliver the more fair, just and equal Scotland that the great majority of us wish to achieve.
Auld Rock
Stopped visiting Bella a while ago, as have most of the folks I regularly correspond with.
I doubt if any of us will be donating.
Just listened to more horrendous slurs about Natalie McGary
on Heart Radio.
They claim someone from her SNP branch has accused her of financial irregularities?
Isn’t it strange how Natalie has 10 fold more coverage that the Tory Party fiddling its election expenses to illegally
buy victory?
Anyone else think that police should just look at the books and then make an announcement, if anything is uncovered?
KW? I had to look him up. He was better when he wrote the screenplay for Scream 2.
I’ve been awa for a few days, bit of R’n’R with my Everlovin’ on the Wild Atlantic Way of Donegal.( She’s Irish you know. Bang goes my WATP Professor Adam T’s readership)
I come back and the Herald is full of the usual shite; lots of ‘claims’ that the SNP are a bunch of tossers, or words to that effect, by the scribes who remain at this sad excuse of a Dead Tree Scroll.
Yet WoS gets criticism like this from the Up Ra Wurkurs Maoist/ Leninist/Trotskyist/Stalinist People’s Republic of Judea?
This wee cell of anarchists are a joke. Come into the 21st Century, ye sons and daughters of Engel.
If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Our MSM , both the Dead Tree and Broadcasting variety are openly neo liberal new conservative Red Blue and Jaundiced Tory Propaganda machines. Brewer and Sanderson have been bought and paid for. They are Unionist Mercenaries. At least we know what we are getting.
But save me the ‘we’re for Independence,but’ guff. Get on board or be left behind, I say.
Post Independence, you can hand out Wee Red Books, either the SFA’s, or Mao’s, to you hearts content.
Or is it all about getting you face and name in the papers as Citizen Wolfie?
Grow fucking up !
I’m totally with you Rev!! Rarely comment but always read everything and could not do without all the very factual info. PLEASE never stop!! Many many thanks!
I never used Bella during the Ref, just a quick look a couple of times. Did visit Wings occasionally, and NNS. I preferred to do my own thing btl elsewhere. I did look more during the Holyrood election, but mostly to fight the “list vote for the SNP is wasted” nonsense.
It did become quite anti-Wings, and then there was an article about Hillsborough which I normally wouldn’t have bothered with, but instinct made me look and right enough, it was an old-fashioned troll article, which the very first posting put into words – an attack on the Rev for his views, and a reply, with the editor MS asking all innocent like what that was about or something. So I pulled MS up on that, he took the huff and became all obnoxious, and blocked me from replying or posting.
From what I see you can not just disagree with Rev here, but insult him, and still not get banned. Which is good stuff even if the guy is a (insert word of choice).
Thing is though it’s a natural reaction to want to see Bella roll over and die a most grievous death of a thousand cuts getting smaller and more insignificant as they go along until there’s nothing left. But it is still a pro-Indy website, new media, different perspective, interesting guest writers at times.
So at the risk of being abused (well not the first time and who gives a fuck anyway, it’s Indy that counts not us morons), I suggest the Rev promotes Bella’s fund-raiser which isn’t doing very well.
Now that WOULD put the cat amongst the pigeons or gulls in the case of ours who was just a kitten at the time. As they say in Germany, Rache ist suess. Either that or Leine ziehen, I forget which.
The true beauty of Wings is that you give us facts ,backed up by evidence which is always referenced. It then becomes a conversation piece in which everybody has their say,whether they agree or not, and they also post evidence backing up their views.
It is a community sharing a mutual ambition and talking to each other as a family would. That includes some of the more radical posters.
Bella has become quite strident in tone,giving you an opinion rather than letting you form your own. I no longer contribute.
It is a pity,but not a situation beyond redemption. I think the management need to have a good look at themselves and what they originally set out to do.
The Rev gives us a voice, He does not post to listen to his own as Bella does.
It struck me quite some time ago that certain, claimed pro-indy, website producers were a tad more interested in their own personal popularity and the more peripheral political movements than they are about Scotland’s independence and the Scottish people’s best interests.
Let us face a simple fact. There is little chance of these more peripheral political parties ever being in a position akin to the SNP who are, at least for the foreseeable future Scotland’s government.
What that means is these parties must either change or amalgamate in order to be in a position to gain Scottish independence and to date show little to suppose they will ever do so.
The parties these sites support are not the problem for they, and their policies, are a healthy sign and indicate a vibrant, living and healthy Scottish politics. The problem is these political movements have a very long history of fragmentation, internal strife and internal vested interests.
By the way, I must also include those older, London led, unionist branch offices in that peripheral minor party classification after the more recent election results.
Let’s be honest – the current Westminster and Holyrood, representation by Scottish MPs means Labour, Tory and LibDems are also peripheral political parties.
The mistake people like KW are making is this. Arguments about whether Scotland is left wing, social democrat or whatever are irrelevant until after independence. We get the government, and policies, that England votes for.
I do find some Bella articles interesting. But WoS, WGD, Derek Bateman and Newsnet are more focused on Independence, as is the SNP. After Independence the SNP may well disappear: but not before.
Same goes for WoS. Congratulations!
So today is the first of June, a cracking day as well. It seems to be for some a day of reflection gathering thoughts. On that note I liked Kevin McKenna’s article in The National. He’s one who thinks out loud, or at least in articles. I watched his conversion to YES in the Guardian (Observer), a curious journey.
I agree with him though that there’s a good few pro-Indy journalists or columnists in the Unionist media. Some on Scotland on Sunday and even the Scotsman, others on the record. I wonder at times if most journalists are pro-Indy and making sure nobody was looking, put their X in the YES box. If not, with their contacts and inside knowledge, they certainly should have.
If the truth ever comes out, I think there’ll be some surprises.
I browse quiet a few of the alternative websites to be fair. For what it’s worth I find the most informative to be Munguin’s Republic, Craig Murray, Scoop It, Scot Goes Pop, Labour Uncut, Liberal Voice (for a laugh), Thinking Liberal, Wings and Derek Bateman.
I sometimes look at Lallands Peat Warrior, Tommy Ball and What Scotland Thinks.
I don’t enjoy Newsnet as much now, find Bella is up it’s own arse and have avoided the Scottish Review for a long time for the same reason. I also try to avoid any site, or should that be shite, that has an article by David Torrance.
Just my opinion.
WoS focuses on the main job in hand, and the main obstacles to achieving success. And, an excellent job it does.
I agree there is the need for other sites focusing on culture and Scottish-ness in the 21thC. It’s part of the nation building process.
HOWEVER, I cannot comprehend why some sites who take on board the challenge of exploring wider issues but take a political view which is way out on the margins. A broad brush to culture and a narrow political stance seems very odd.
Bella in particular would be a much better site if it stayed out of party politics. Politics and the constitutional question in the broad sense, yes, but for Heaven’s sakes, dump the support for ultra leftists who have near zero popular following.
I say this, not because of any conflict with the SNP, but because talk of the People’s Socialist Republic of Scotland drives moderates into Unionist hands. We need a broad consensus for Indy not the loony left shouting for revolution.
Capella , even after independence I wish neither the SNP nor the Rev to disappear.
I want a party with Scottish interest at its heart and a Wings Over Scotland to make critical but fair comment.
yesindyref2 says:
I suggest the Rev promotes Bella’s fund-raiser
Yes! The Rev takes the moral high ground and then we can prove to the world we are not his little bitches, by ignoring him.
It’s a twofer.
I stopped subscribing to Bella before the Holyrood election when it became increasingly obvious that they were advocating people should vote Rise versus the SNP plea for both votes – look how that turned out! ! Bella seemed to me to be as bad as the mainstream media with their SNPBAD rhetoric!
They’ve stopped sending me emails, but not however their pleas for funding! They’ll not be getting a penny from me!
I note the fall-out from the Liam Fee murder has started. And, true to form, Buffalo Gal Krankie, the Tank Commander has wasted no time in going in over the ball, with both feet.
Then there is the MSM view, “It is understood Liam had a Named Person”. This strikes me as classic Establishment behaviour. Clearly, someone, or some department fucked-up, badly. “They”, be it Fife County Council, or whoever, are now running around like headless chickens, seeking a scapegoat who can be blamed.
‘Twas ever thus; some kind, caring, chronically over-worked and undr-resourced coal-face worker will end up being chucked under the moving train.
SLAB, who run Fife, will run for cover, and BGRTC, whose party’s obscene policies are at least partly to blame, will try to make hay, along the lines of “SNP very bad!!!”
BBC starting Project Fear 2 tonight on the premise of a leave vote in England and a remain in Scotland. Back to currency scares, border controls etc – the sooner we do become independent and can show that none of these obstacles are insurmountable the better.
Rumours of your death have been exaggerated.
But as Wilde said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
I agree with @Breeks upstream. In a world awash with corporate meeja lackeys peddling unionist propaganda we need friends, even ones who don’t always share our views and may behave badly at times. We all share a hope for our own independent country. Bella is an outlet for new Scottish voices and for that reason I have contributed to their crowdfunder and I urge all of you who want to see an independent Scotland to do the same.
Wings and Bella are both great. What’s wrong with a diverse independence media. The huffy comments here about Bella’s ‘pseudo intellectual’ content are just laughable. Get a life.
Heard the start of call Kay with an E. By a terrible twist of fate it looks like the unionists second alliance is about to go the same way as OBFA.
How many callers will be demanding a change in child protection law to stop toddlers like Liam from slipping through the net? A sort of Named Person act?
Sad that another child has died. Hope that NP will save others.
In point of fact the best thing about wings is that Rev Stu kicks off with an article then lets the wingers get on with it with as little interference as possible.
The others seem more driven by their owners personal views. Which is why there are few comments on their sites while Wingers pile in on Wings with their views.
Stu doesn’t bar many commenters even when they are openly anti-indy.
Then there is the outstanding humour of Wingers and the mainly good natured banter.
I cannot recall a single day when I have not had at least one great laugh when reading Wings. The Wingers sense of humour and general good nature is outstanding.
Not to mention their tolerance of the more bitter attacks from unionist sources.
@Almannysbunnet
I like it!
@galamcennalath
The advantage of RISE haveing come out of the woodwork is that, for me at least, it explains a lot of what happended during the Indy ref. The far left is always noisier, but I think a good few people didn’t want to rock the boat, we’re all Indy supporters, we should stick together. So when some batty far-left idea comes out like renationalising BT, nobody really contradicted it, leaving the impression we were all far left and Scary.
Next Ref, the more differences between us the better. That way we reflect all of Scotland, and all of Scotland can identify with at least some of us in all apart from Indy. And then perhaps that as well. If Bella wants to be RISE and Greens with 60% tax, then so be it.
How could Liam have a named person when the Head of the Social Servuces has admitted Liam fell through the net and a social worker got ill and there was no follow up.
The Unionists are too busy spending money on Trident/illegal wars and other nonsense to protect and support the children in Scotland. The Unionists are sanctioning vulnerable people. Telling a pack of lies about Scotland.
Aint read bella since before the Indy ref, thought it was getting above itself then. Wont be contributing to its fundraiser but i sorta agree with Indyref2 that it would be good for the movement for it to keep going .
Mike Small thinks he is worth £30k a year , if so the Rev is worth a lot more. Come the next Wings fundraiser we should with hold our donations until the Rev takes a decent salary and holidays. Maybe a like a game of poker with the deadline looming and no donations, see who folds first! Think the Rev would win but at least we would be trying to get the bugger to take a decent wage.
“I suggest the Rev promotes Bella’s fund-raiser”
There’s more chance of me promoting Duncan Hothersall to deputy editor.
W.o.s. head and sboulders above the rest. I love reading the posts. Articulate and thought provoking.
@ Dorothy Devine. I hope WoS carries on after Independence too. There will be sabotage in the MSM and from Westminster. I’m paranoid enough to believe that much of the economic mayhem at present was planned years ago to kill off independence.
But in an independent Scotland I would expect the SNP to transform itself into a left of centre social democrat party along Scandinavuan lines. Nicola has already defined it as such. Rebranding!
“There’s more chance of me promoting Duncan Hothersall to deputy editor”
Ah gwan, gwan, gwan have a cup of tea. It’s Bellisima.
It’d be a hoot!
I don’t understand the second linked paragraph! To whom am I directed to be respectful too? If its those who hold my country back from its independent destiny, who talk her down and sell us out to Westminster leaches, well whoever said I am disrespectful was fucking right, I shit on them, bastards all!
As for bella, too many pseudo intellectual middle class arseholes for my taste, no fucking passion no fucking heart.
It’s the often irreverent take by the Reverend Campbell that keeps us on out toes – yes it’s pro Inde ( and therefore generally pro SNP ) but what makes it essential reading is the quality and tenacity of the journalism.
I like Wings, Bella and AyeRightRadio along with Colin Bateman. Craig Murray and Peat Warrier/Wee Ginger Dug all contribute in their different ways to the Independence movement whether I agree with some of their views or not.
Superb compared to the MSM and I rely on Wings to do the forensic analysis demolishing unionist propaganda. After the EU referendum there must be a 50/50 chance that Westminster is going to disintegrate. So it’s essential our alternate media are alive and well, as it may well be interesting times, and who knows another bite at the cherry may be earlier than we think currently.
I see Bella has got its annual fund raiser on the go so bungled them a few quid as well.
yesindyref2,
That sounds like a deviously interesting way of messing with people’s heads. In fact as an idea it’s so cunning “you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel.”
Scandinavian even. I actually thought something was wrong with the site. My first rwo comments appeared instantly! But no, third one was delayed as usual. Sigh.
Just occurred to me, given RISE’s stunning performance.
They are the 1%.
If you tell people not to visit a website then sure as fate they will out of curiosity. WoS is good not just for the demolition of the daft anti-independence article but for the wide amount of knowledge the readers bring. The links provided from readers such as Nana and Valerie and others provide you with a reach to the wider Independence movement.
There’s more chance of me promoting Duncan Hothersall to deputy editor.
I’d buy that. Well done WoS!
Its a torboy teamGEnglandB UKOK world, stuffed with some of the most shameless red/blue tory liars money can buy. We just live in it.
link to youtube.com
WoS Power ads like this please:D
I visit Wings multiple times a day to get my fix of reliable information. I always support Stu,s crowdfunders.
In the past, I’ve contributed to all pro Indy sites including Indy Live. I will continue to do so at my discretion.
I won’t be contributing to Bella again.
yesindyref2,
……now you’ve gone and spoilt the narrative with that comment about BT.
sigh.
I read a number of sites – mainly Bella, Newsnet, WGD, Scot Goes Pop, Scottish Review.
Far and away the best are SGP and Wings. SGP adds value by alerting us to polls and interpreting them. Wings is simply the best written of any of the sites.
yesindyref2 says:
” The far left is always noisier … Next Ref, the more differences between us the better. …. If Bella wants to be RISE and Greens with 60% tax, then so be it.”
I understand what you are saying, the more groups who are on board for Indy the better. The wider the range of views, the wider the appeal.
The problem is two fold, as I see it. Firstly the far left is noisy and secondly the current support for Indy is from the centre and left. We need sufficient people erring to the right to come on board too. We need to offer a vision of an independent Scotland which offers enough NO voters reason to switch.
It’s a matter of positioning. The SNP and Greens have the opportunity to present themselves as the acceptable faces of Indy to the NOs. Two differing views, each with proven voter backing, each mainstream in a European sense. However the very vocal hard left with loony views which go way beyond just 60% tax, potentially attract few but terrify many.
I would say exactly the same if an ultra right nasty-nationalist group arose and spoke loudly for an independent Scotland. Their vision would be equally terrifying and just as off putting.
@Dave Hansell
But … I thought everyone loved BT?
I had a guy at my work say:”Wings oh you don’t follow that on twitter do you, the guy that runs that is an idiot”. I would say the guy in my work is a maybe soft Yes voter.
Obviously the media vendetta against Wings works on some people. Wings to me is the only place where the media stories are scientifically disected and truth comes out. Some people fall into line and if someone or something is monstered for long enough. They start to believe it.
I am fed up with angry and scared Yoons trying to run away from democracy. They think they won they beat us, but they know it was a hollow victory and a shaky victory. They are bricking it!
They want nearly 50% of the population to just go away and fall into line cause they won. They are so hostile it comes out as bitter, childish and nasty.
Stopped looking at Bella as it seemed to be aimed at a small minority of people in the belief that they represented a huge silent majority of Socialist Worker buying lefties. I guess the truth is leaking out now the Bella campaign to raise funds is not going tso well
yesindyref2,
Slight misunderstanding here. It was the dismissal of the very idea of public ownership as something beyond the pale. But I guess that’s what thinking like an engineer and thirty five years working for them does to one.
@galamcennalath
But at least that far left now has a home which can be identified by the electorate. I think before it was presumed we all thought that way.
The problem with any policy is that there are those who like it, and those that don’t. The more policies there are, the more people have some reason to be put off. If Indy itself seems to have policies then it might attract some, but will put others off. Which means Indy itself should have no policies at all, but the different groups can put forward their own ones. Perhaps several mini “White Papers”, rather than just the one from the SNP.
Yes, one thing Patrick Harvie said before the election I thought was very good, and that is that with a good Green contingent in Holyrood, they could make a separate case for Indy, and help build the case for it. But as you say, it really needs a moderate right of centre group to be vocal and get heard. There was Wealthy Nation in Indy Ref 2 who had some great material about the likes of currency and central bank, but they were seldom heard.
Well, I was working all night and most of Tuesday, went well, but it’s time to hit the leaba.
The Unionist media attack pro Independence sources that they see as a threat. ……… Don’t recall BellaC or Common space getting a doing from the Unionist Media…… But what I do remember is Bella C. , Commonspace, the National and The Sunday Herald spouting that an SNP majority was “Guaranteed” and that it was safe to give your 2nd vote to the Greens…….
@Breeks says: 1 June, 2016 at 7:05 am:
” … It strikes me all of these disparate sites are lacking the same thing, and that is leadership and direction from the centre; a common focus to really throw their weight behind.”
While I generally agree with your views, Breeks, I have to disagree with the above part of your comment.
What was so breathtakingly obvious about the, “YES”, movement was that it was not a centrally led movement by an established political movement.
It was a spontaneous rising of the sovereign people of Scotland and included those of quite disparate political views. While that was its great strength throughout the entire referendum campaign it has become its weakness thereafter.
The referendum campaign required no central leadership but the aftermath certainly does. The problem being that what bound us all together no longer holds us together. Furthermore, to attempt to form a central YES leadership would destroy the whole ethos of a spontaneous popular movement.
Such a move would, of necessity, have its own political slant and thus encourage exactly what we can see happening now. Tommy Sheridan, and the history of such as Solidarity and RISE, indicates that these are prone to internal in-fighting and bitter strife. Yet for the YES movement they spontaneously pulled together.
You cannot have a spontaneous political movement that has a specific political leadership. The indication is, though, that in the event of a second referendum the YES movement would spontaneously recreate itself again.
In the mean time the only really sustainable movement is indeed the Scottish National Party. Note it is correctly called a, “National”, rather than a, “Nationalist”, party.
This may explain why the smaller independence parties, (including the Greens), are now outwardly opposing the SNP on several fronts. In one respect they are our allies but in another our opposition.
Agree wholeheartedly with ” R Peffers ” @9.17.
Wings is now just part of my normal day. Get up, pee, shower, breakfast then Wings. Read paper, wee bit o gardening, snack then Wings again. Go for a short/long walk, do something different?, teatime then Wings to finish the day.
Great debating and some real good laughs.
Loyalist
Don’t you mean the 0.45%?
The (non) Greens put moderate voters off with their 60% tax and (imply) land grab. People think they will have to pay 60% of their earnings and their land/possessios will be confiscated. Just a load of nonsense. The (non) Greens are given much more coverage (deliberately?) then their support. To put moderate voters off from voting for Independence?
They collude with Unionists (the status quo) to waste £Million/Billions of public money which could be better spent. They cheat and lie at every opportunity. Colluding with landowners and wasting public money on protests to muck up peope’s lives. Without majority support. Building grotesque, carbuncles and wasting public money then claim there is not enough for essential services. Buying into the lies at every opportunity. They renege on their own policies. Their Independence support has been totally overrated.
Yes,go visit everywhere,at some point,using your, ‘voice of reason’,you will have hopefully,some recognition of the truth or at the very least an opinion.
Or there is a really good Amazon 5 star rated,tv programme on,The Strictly British Baking Talent Show and there’s always lots of ventriloquists on it.
It’s a free country….isn’t it ?
@Ian Murray
“I found out who KW is
It is not Kevin but you have 3 letters right”
It was Kevin, about 3 weeks ago.
He said he would put independence first too. 🙁
Bella Caledonia is a website where dreamy, aspirationalists go to slake their misty eyed, socialist thirst.
Wings is a website where agents of fortune go to kick the British Establishment in the testicles while wearing Rosa Kleb’s poison tipped shoes.
Think of it as a competition for attention between “The Wheeltappers & Shunters” vs. “WrestleMania 32”. That vastly more people are interested in listening to Scotland’s very own “Bret ‘Hit Man’ Hart” than “The Committee” is pretty much self explanatory.
And the next crowdfunder on Wings is for, Wait for it.
Raa raa skirts an Pom poms ( well if Stu,s a cheerleader lets kit him out properly),an thats no fur me ah wid need a four four no ah two two,come tae think of it so wid Stu.
I agree with Dorothy D & others WoS should carry on after Independence ( previously discussed on here) I cant say the same of Bella if they happen to survive it wont be with any donations from me.
As I have said Im attending the S.I.M meetings at Hillhead Library to get the Alliance together again I would like to see more Wingers take part in the discussions & if Stu would consent for us to be representative of WoS as a group that would be all the better. We have put our money where our mouths are (supporting WoS online). I would like to see Wings taking a more visible part in Promoting Independence ,other than BDTT & PTC’s badge stall, there will be more demonstrations in the pipeline lets get out there under the Official WoS Group Banner.
G.H.Graham @ 10.30 am
Excellent summation and pretty much where I am.
Having been active in the SNP for nigh on 40 years just leave the stragglers to fend for themselves victory is in sight!
I’m not a reader of Bella or common space. I found newsnet and wings myself whilst trawling the net.
I no longer visit newsnet due to their censorship of comments and abuse of data protection laws. That behaviour may have changed, I don’t know, it’s a toxic brand now so far as I’m concerned.
If common space and Bella think this is the way to get new readers they are sadly mistaken. I’ve got a big bargepole here and it’s not going anywhere near them!
Wings ain’t perfect, Stu ain’t perfect, but he is honest and backs every claim up with a source. Wingers know this. It’s why we keep coming back.
Rev wrote:
“We rarely do stat posts now, because readership has settled to a pretty steady level (generally bobbing between around 250,000 and 300,000 users a month)..”
Aye, that’s what you think, just wait until those wee black books start dropping through letterboxes – whenever we get them! I would expect readership numbers to rise. WOS is an addiction and we are the suppliers.
As for ‘Bella’- i’ve posted one comment on there as far as i can remember and that was several weeks ago. I don’t go there anymore, not even for a peek to see what’s going on and that attempt to promote a boycott of my No1 site has reinforced my stance.
I rarely go btl now but i never miss any articles or toons and there are thousands more like me. People suggesting attacks, one way or another, on this site would do well to remember that.
Taking on an army of footsoldiers as big as WOS’ is the equivalent of creating your very own suicide mission.
Bye bye Bella!
Sorry O/T but can someone tell me what this is all about.
Pete Wishart
1. Journalist tweets pish. 2. MP challenges journalist. 3. JK Rowling decides to butt in. 4. MP attacked for “fighting with” Rowling. Huh.
BSA says: 9:14
“The huffy comments here about Bella’s ‘pseudo intellectual’ content are just laughable. Get a life.”
And yet nobody mentioned Bella’s preudo intellectual content until you did at 9:14. Strange that, maybe you read it on another site.
Shame that it’s come to this when we, Scotland, have so many ‘real enemies’ to contend with. So many powerful, and millions less so, people determined that we’ll not become Independent at all. I reckon we should move on and let it be: continue to focus on getting the truth out there as media propaganda poses as the greatest obstacle to achieving our Independence. Focus on supporting the SNP as it’s the ONLY political party capable of achieving such an aim.
If someone (singular person) wants to describe us as being pro-Indy Government cheerleaders that’s fine by me. ‘Cheerleader’ described in the dictionary as being an enthusiastic and vocal supporter, champion, defender, promoter, supporter, advocate and admirer. If being derogatory I’ve been called much worse even on here. At the end of the day I am a ‘cheerleader’ for the SNP and demonstrated such by joining the Party. If the term ‘cheerleader’ is some kind of inference that the supporters of the SNP and / or Wings are intellectually inferior then they’ve not been following this site closely nor have they noted that this site has probably done more to ‘educate’ the masses than all other pro-Independence sites put together. Key word ‘educate’.
There should be a place for everyone on the pro-Independence media spectrum regardless of genre. In-fighting is the last thing that we need and suits the Unionists down to the ground, especially as there are so few of ‘us’ and so many of ‘them’. Over time I’ve read some brilliant articles on Bella, extremely interesting and informative, such as the Cuthberts and so on. There have been one or two that I wasn’t too keen on, far from it, but equally applies to this site. Are we really willing to let Bella go because we don’t agree with someone’s comments or a handful of articles? If so, we have to ask ourselves …. who’s next for the chop?
Once upon a time there was a bunch of indy blog sites all pushing for one goal…. Independence, we can all do radical shit once independent but until then, one goal.
It’s such a shame it’s come to this, I do hate the idea of divide and conquer, Scots fighting amongst ourselves, achieving nothing, progressing nowhere. I’m sure there is a lesson or two from history regarding this.
One indy blogging site telling folk to stay away from another is disgraceful, makes one wonder what the true intentions of those folk really are.
That stupid kids book writer person’s at it again
This is me not writing the name of that stupid person in order to avoid the army of lawyers that the stupid person threatens people who think they’re entitled to the same free speech as the stupid kids book writer’s money buys that person
Speech is only totally free if you have loads of dosh or absolutely none
The first one buys you free speech the second one makes you pay for thinking you had the right to it
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 1 June, 2016 at 9:28 am:
” … There’s more chance of me promoting Duncan Hothersall to deputy editor.”
Well! That’s the daily cleaning of the computer screen and keyboard taken care of again.
;-))
yesindyref2 at 10.12
I note that right wing independence supporter Michael Fry is joining the National and with Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp dong a very impressive weekly piece from the Business for Scotland stable there is a space being filled. Kevin McKenna is excellent in today’s National as is WGD. The National is surviving and improving.
Abandoned Bella some time ago. Don’t like proscriptive attitudes in open forums and I don’t like its assumptive attitude. Newsnet took my money,then barred me from comment but after three attempts to get an explanation for this without even a reply I don’t go there anymore.
O/T
The Liam Fee Case.
I posted this on the last thread. Liam did NOT have a ‘named person’. A number of individuals spoke out on the news last night such as a prior baby sitter (in his home) and nursery staff. They stated that they had reported their concerns to the Social Services on two different occasions. A social worker was designated his case. An investigation was carried out and Liam was examined by a paediatrician. Seemingly they found no grounds for concern. The social worker went off ‘sick’ and from all accounts months went by with no-one covering Liam’s case.
Moothie should keep her mouth shut until such time all facts relating to the situation are released or is it the case that she knew all about it beforehand as she did with Indyref1 postal votes? She should also keep in mind that it’s HER Party that’s slashing budgets right across the UK, to the detriment of all, whilst lining their own pockets.
”@ defo says at 11:33 pm …. ”Big mouth might have just struck again I hope. Moothie seems to have special access to Fife council social work records. A wee bit unsavoury really, using dead kids as ammunition.”
That’s her alright …. unsavoury…. and how long before she blames Nicola Sturgeon for this wee guys death? If not SNP Baad Dugdale …. ”see Nicola your named person policy doesn’t work” …. The one that she supported beforehand.
And on this subject I was delighted to hear that these two evil monsters were found guilty. Tried to offload their horrendous, sadistic behaviour onto a 7 year old. Their cruelty and callousness just beggars belief. Too late for poor wee Liam but hopefully, even after all the hellish trauma the two older boys have suffered, life will improve greatly for them now.
Named person? Liam’s baby sitter reported her concerns to the Social Services over a year before he died. This was followed up by nursery staff reporting their worries too a year before he died following him attending their nursery for 3 months. He was then removed from the nursery by his ‘parents’. Three (BRIGHT) red flags at least: That we know of. An additional year of profound misery and wretched physical and psychological suffering for a two year old because someone wasn’t doing their job properly (and that included a paediatrician). Someones head should roll.”
Dont these people know who was funding their projects,are they so naive to think they were getting all that dosh because they were on the cutting edge of journalism?
I guess us wingers have to share some of the blame by backing their projects even if we NEVER READ IT we created a bunch of big heads.
Its that old story never bite the hand that feeds you.
I always had my doubts about them but i still backed them because they were for indy and because the Rev yes Bella because the Rev asked us to,well taking pot shots at Wings means they will never get another penny from me.
Attack the Rev and the Wingers at your peril we do not play games,we are the indy movement special forces trained alert readers all thanks to the Rev who took a band of misfit cybernats scattered over the net and moulded us into a formidable cybernat army.
Mend your ways or get out our way the choice is yours we have a battle to win and we dont need you throwing stink bombs into our camp we have enough on our plate dealing with the yoon special zoomer brigade.
Dont try to change us because you will lose we made our choice a long time ago as to how we would fight the battle for indy,we dont ask you to like it we dont ask you to help us all we ask is you stay out our fucking way.
Almannysbunnet says:
1 June, 2016 at 7:06 am
Other blog sites have every right to support and print what they want and I have every right to keep my donations in my pocket. I hate snobbery of any sort, patronising intellectual elitism most of all. When these same self described “intellectuals” then attack me as an unquestioning fundamentalist, cheerleader while asking for my money to support them they can fcuk right off. They are “doing a Ratner” and they can’t see it.
Ponsonby puts it way better and if you read the whole article you will find out who KW is.:-)
link to indyref2.scot
FFS we all Jock Thompsons bairns, and if we want an independent Scotland, we should not go down this road of othering, or interlectualising for perceived elitism or personal gain.
A few “interlectuals” who show how stupid they are by this sort of carry on will not change the majority peoples’ minds as far as the aims of independence go. We are supposedly on the same side. Why try to divide the creative juices on this?
It sounds like sour grapes to me. This sort of thing turns people away from the purpose of having the debate in the first place.
Me thinks Pat Kane et al are inebriated by the exuberance of their own verbosity, or they have partisan interests.
Devide and rule, how very Westminster!
Last line:
Divide not devide, sorry, how very non intellectual of me
Keep on keeping on Wings!
I emailed Mike Small in response to his funding request for Bella to let him know I would not be contributing this time on account of the anti SNP line of many articles. I received a prompt and polite response from him thanking me for previous support. It is a pity that Bella has descended into a deluded ultra left clique that is irrelevant to achieving an independent Scotland.
@ R Peffers re. 10.15.
I mostly agree with what you said but I wuld also add another flavour to the YES movement.
At the beginning YES was not the broad church, all encompassing mass movement but more of a small time set-up with a nominated leader (sic) who was to push for a YES vote.
Blair Jenkins proved to be such a bland, hesitant and uninspiring leader, almost out of sight, that the YES groups and movement in general just said bugger this, we’ll get on with the job and do it ourselves.
The people took over and made YES to what it became. The spirit was there but the leadership wasn’t.
We need to regenerate that Spirit of 2014. I think the Yes movement is ready to get going again. Expect Yoons writhing and spewing venom at the cheek of us not just accepting the result of one match where they bought the referee!
When you have been blocked by Bella Facebook for posting well sourced positive comments from the SNP, Wings etc about the Named Person, then you get five emails asking for help in their crowdfunding, what do you say? NO!
Might be worth mentioning that the site which supposedly champions “radical ideas, fresh thinking and the questioning of power” blocks all my comments.
@Rev Stu: 12:28 am
“That’s why our centre-column quote is what it is, man”
You mean this one?
“For new readers”
Or have I misread? 🙂
Peter A Bell
Might be worth mentioning that the site which supposedly champions “radical ideas, fresh thinking and the questioning of power” blocks all my comments
That’s because your just soooo conventional.
Sweep @1:57pm, he means this:
“There’s no limit to what a man can do, or where he can go, if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.”
I just wish there were a couple more sites as good as Wings. I’d take a look. Beyond Wee Ginger nothing else worth it at the moment. Shame … though – agree with all above who point out solidarity in the face of the Yoons is always going to be better than infighting.
Good on ya Rev.
@Dave Hansell
I could imagine that. But public ownership is good for some things. Won’t be long now with “Royal Mail” before there’s increased charges for rural, highlands and islands, or collect from the nearest post office counter – which could be miles away. Their small / medium parcel charging structure is stupid as well, but this is a vital service. They’ve been talking about dropping the universal charge, now it’s outside the 2 year (?) limit as a condition of privatisation.
I’d say Royal Mail is an essential to renationalise, and as a matter of urgency. If there’s an Indy Ref 2 soon, it could be quite a major selling point outside the Central Belt, even Inverness as a whole – and Aberdeen – could end up paying increased postal charges for delivery – and even collection.
if anyone is doing journalism properly, they’ll either end up in a forest, decapitated (or whatever the MO of a particular culture is) or they’ll be vilified or ostracised by those the general public trust. For the journalist, much better the latter.
yesindyref2,
Quite. Although I’d best not get started on this otherwise we could end up out of space on the Web site.
Suffice to say that RM is another interesting and revealing case in point about the utility privatisations as RM, along with BT et al, has its pension liabilities on the public/Government books. Otherwise non of them would have been privatised.
And that is by far not the only way in which public money is being directly and indirectly used by the state to subsidise the operations and private profits of the former public utilities whose physical assets (in the case of BT think of the hundreds of thousands of miles of ducts and cable along with the deep level tunnels; the millions of manholes and joint boxes, distribution cabinets and poles; the thousands of local telephone exchanges etc etc) which were paid for by public money since 1912.
BT did not get accreditation from OFSTED for its apprenticeship scheme for the kudos. That accreditation got access to public money. The USO only applies to telephony not broadband, which is why large parts of rural Scotland, Wales and other periphery areas of England are having to DIY it opening up a further opportunity for so called public private partnerships where access to public money becomes available.
That’s another debacle that can be laid fairly and squarely at the doors of both Blair and Brown.
If you want to understand how the media in Britain works, read Wings on a regular basis. That is why it’s an important site.
@Robert Peffers at 10.15
I didn’t mean that kind of leadership, but leadership in the sense of shepherding ideas and keeping disparate groups focused on the big picture.
If and when YES 2 kicks into gear, I hope there is a much clearer focus on the main event that is sovereign Independence, and that public advocates pushing for Independence do not find themselves banjoed by the media and suddenly lost in some abstract debate of token relevance to Scottish Indepencence.
Independence is not an anti-Labour issue. It’s not an anti-Ruth Davison issue. It isn’t an issue about who has what in their manifesto. It isn’t merely tinkering with the status quo of our present government(s). It isn’t even all that political in terms of left,centre or right. All of that comes later. What it is, is a new system of wholesale sovereign government. Our country isn’t merely being synced to keep it up to date, but reset to its factory settings.
Time and again during the 2014 campaign, I found myself shouting at the TV wondering why on earth every debate turned into a shouting match about the small print of merely one possible doomsday scenario, where in reality, an independent Scotland would have a blank unwritten page set out before itself. I despaired at the hours of discussion wasted weighing up the pros and cons of keeping the pound yet never once highlighting the relevance and “one trumps-all” significance of sovereign independence and the choice it would give Scotland to choose and change our currency as and when it suited us. The pound wasn’t even sacred to the HM Treasury; the UK was briefly in the ERM as a precursor to joining the Euro itself. So why in blue blazes is the pound a defining issue for Scotland?
The leadership which I would like to see is the unseen subtle hand which guides debate back onto the super-user issue of independence when the not so subtle hand of BBC unionism would move the debate away from constructive discussion and into areas of peurile irrelevance.
I hope next Indyref we are all so familiar and thoroughly rehearsed with our own agenda that we are instantly alert when there is any unscheduled deviation away from that agenda, especially one contrived by the deceitful media.
Perhaps leadership isn’t the correct word to use, but I don’t know a better one.
lmannysbunnet says: 11:18
And yet nobody mentioned Bella’s preudo intellectual content until you did at 9:14. Strange that, maybe you read it on another site.
BSA says: 9:14
“The huffy comments here about Bella’s ‘pseudo intellectual’ content are just laughable. Get a life.”
Though I did write that but first decided not to send? so either Bull Shit Artist is watching me or “pseudo intellectual’ is common parlance for bella!
@Dave McEwan Hill
Yes, I really liked Kevin McKenna’s article. Michael Fry of Wealthy Nation, it’s good he’s getting a regular spot, there was a wealth of material on their site, I hope they keep it up and add to it. Did see him on the TV. He could do stuff like the currency and central bank or not issue – to run a currency you don’t actually need a central bank, it used to be done by banks in Scotland in the 1800s.
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp is a trier, never gives up, whatever the setback. Knew him years ago in the dotcom boom days, First Tuesday. He was one of those people could get things organised, like getting BT as a sponsor – and use of their HQ in Glasgow, was there for a couple of meetings. Possible leader of YES for me. Pretty sure he’s an SNP member, but I’d say left, right and centre.
I have to offer a round of applause to all contributors and to the Rev himself – The quote for the site is “There’s no limit to what a man can do, or where he can go, if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.” It is a quote that is testament to every person on here. In it for the greater good!
T
Bella has a future if it sticks with the cultural stuff and forgets about the right on politics.
They were being ironic, surely? Or winding us up?
They’re saying effectively, that the way forward is to shut down democratic freedoms?
“O’ for the wings,for the wings of a”…….yon eaglely,lioney looking thingbob at the top of the page.
That’s the one for me.
I probably spent as much time on Newsnet and Wings in the early days. I enjoyed visiting Bella up until about 6 to 9 months ago. Weegingerdug and many, many others are always worth a visit.
Bella and Newsnet now try to sell ideas, to influence, to manipulate.
Wings remains at its core a factual dissection of unionist propaganda and spin. The readers are able then to form an opinion after being presented with a balance otherwise lost due to the MSM avoidance of any attempt at journalism. The added bonus of Wings is a number of highly informed forum contributors.
Wings has filled the gap that should have been taken by investigative journalists. We come by choice, we contribute both thoughts and funds if we can.
Those who support Wings may differ on on view regarding topics and tactics but we have one shared belief that is absolute – Scotland is a nation and will be recognised as such once again.
Facts are chiels that winna ding link to similarweb.com
Have never commented before on your page, although read it always and appreciate your fantastic analysis of ‘the state of the union’. I remember reading a quote from Bella posted on a lamppost on the day of the referendum (sorry not that memorable to quote again) but it was confusing and contradictory, which made me suspicious of their pro-independance stand? So when it comes to their crowd-funding appeal, no chance. Whereas your self WOS, will definitely donate my hard earned cash at christmas. Keep up the good work!
Been following Wings since the start.
Obviously I support Independence, but the main reason I am on here is media watch.
The Rev has carved a niche and has most of the monopoly on watching a relatively unchallenged corrupt media, which is run from London with the aim of keeping Scotland down.
@Peter A Bell
1 June, 2016 at 1:36 pm
“Might be worth mentioning that the site which supposedly champions “radical ideas, fresh thinking and the questioning of power” blocks all my comments.”
Blocked by Bella Caledonia? It is a badge of honour. Wear it with pride.
Actually, I think I’ve been blocked, too… 😀