A swift answer
Posted on
October 29, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
If not a surprising one.
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 12-12
- 12-09
- 12-07
- 12-03
- 11-28
- 11-25
- 11-23
- 11-22
- 11-18
- 11-17
- 11-12
- 11-09
- 11-06
- 11-04
- 11-03
- 11-02
- 10-29
- 10-26
- 10-26
- 10-21
A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Well, I suppose that if Cameron had said “Nicolas Sturgeon’s request is perfectly sound”, he wouldn’t have survived the subsequent melee! 🙂
Aye, they will be utterly desperate to nip that one in the bud.
It’s amazing isn’t it?
The speed of knee-jerk when a raw nerve is touched.
@Luigi
If UKIP was biting your arse, you’d jump fairly quick!!
It will be 3 years of uncertainty over an In/Out EU referendum.
Now where have I heard that before?
Nicola building up visible profile is good for her ability to walk tall on all UK political stages.
GMS at 8am, PMQs at 12:30pm and an introduction to new troupes, yes, troupes tonight.
A Jedi Mistress she will be 😉
Well done Nicola.
That sets things up nicely. 🙂
Bill Cash was the original’flapping coat’ and if you had to bet on who would defect to UKIP he would have been a good bet. Time yet of course. It says much about Westminster nowadays that he’s a middle of the road MP. A total loonball.
So THE VOW really is just a giant UK fraud. Who’d have thunk it. What a difference a 5 weeks make but thanks again proud Scot buts.
Bill Cash. An appropriate name for a Tory MP?
It’s a strategic move by Nicola, and sends out all kinds of messages to those taking notes.
They can’t stop them tabling a motion, if there is any debate etc on the referendum, and by that time, there will be support from others like Wales.
For those that say we need out out of the EU, please do some research, it’s not perfect, but I believe we are better in than out, for now at any rate.
@ Luigi exactly! Mission accomplished, set the hares running…
That didn’t take long to get the ball rolling!
Step 1 Done
Step 2 Tory ( / UKIP) WM 2015 government
Step 3 Indy majority at Holyrood 2016
Step 4 EU vote result England out / Scotland in
Step 5 Emergency consultative IndyRef 2
Step 6 Bye!
Daily Heil boost for Anas but why is one VOW more important than another VOW? Anas is not stretched too much on that by same far right liggers.
“MP Anas Sarwar, interim leader of the Scottish Labour Party after Johann Lamont’s shock resignation, said Ms Sturgeon must pledge not to hold another vote on independence for Scotland for another generation.
He argued that remaining in the UK was the ” settled will of the Scottish people” and added: ” ‘Nicola Sturgeon should stand by her pre-referendum vow that this would be a once-in-a-generation event.”
Wind them up and watch them go…. Popcorn anyone?
More SNP/Scottish Greens/SSP MPs need to be elected next year to hold these unionists to account. The No voters ensured that we would have all our aspirations stamped on by Westminster, including all those businesses, farmers and fishermen who decided they were Better Together, and didn’t mind seeing their EU subsidies disappearing down the pan. And good luck to you all.
@Grizzle McPuss says: 29 October, 2014 at 3:25 pm:
“If UKIP was biting your arse, you’d jump fairly quick!!”
Well! Grizzle, one look at the mouth full o muckle gnashers on Nigel Farage is enough to convince anyone a bitten arse by UKIP is not a good idea.
@JGedd says: 29 October, 2014 at 3:41 pm:
“Bill Cash. An appropriate name for a Tory MP?”
Well, JGedd, it certainly wouldn’t be, “Bill of Rights”.
When the opposition is a bunch of sour faced, self-serving barstewards that hate one another, there comes a time when all you have to do is wind them up and let them go.
Whose for popcorn?
Sir Bill Cash almost apoplectic with rage at the very idea that Ms Nicola Sturgeon would even dare to make a suggestion about ‘his’ referendum. So much for the family of nations, as we are now One United Kingdom again.
UK on pause with these narrow GB nationalists,bullying and jeering,carrying on with their divisive referendum. About the only time they pay attention is when you shout “EUROPE”.
Just goes to show that Nicola knows what buttons to press to wind them up. That old tory home guard there don’t like it when you threaten their seperatist vote now,it’s the tory grail.
If the eu ref vote is close but it is the voters in Scotland who tip the vote and England stays in because of scottish votes”………oops
Fire up the popcorn pan Luigi, I’m in !
Cheers Rev
Technically,when a potential group of voters reach voting age,is that a new generation. An Indy vote once a year then lol. We only need to win once,those against have to win every time. 🙂
heedtracker says:
29 October, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Anas is not stretched too much on that by same far right liggers.
Anus being stretched by any ammount is not a pleasant thought!
@heedtracker says:29 October, 2014 at 3:49 pm:
“He argued that remaining in the UK was the ”settled will of the Scottish people” and added: ” ‘Nicola Sturgeon should stand by her pre-referendum vow that this would be a once-in-a-generation event.”
Well, in the first place, I do not remember Nicola saying any such thing. Was it not Salmond who said it?
In the second place where did the numptie get the sound bite, “settled will of the Scottish people”, from?. Somehow I don’t think the percentage swing needed to change the referendum result could in any way be described as the, “settled will of the Scottish people”, any more than the percentage vote needed for Labour to be returned to power in Scotland is the, “settled will of the Scottish people”.
If Sarwar had been asked if Labour should remain out of power in Scotland for a generation because the last Holyrood election was, “settled will of the Scottish people”, I’m sure he would have rejected the idea.
In any case it is not up to Sarwar or Nicola to tell the people of Scotland what is their settled will – We, the people of Scotland, tell them what our will is – and, whatsmore, we tell them when.
sturgeon got in crisp and clean, foundations laid.
let the building commence!
The Scottish Labour Party will amost certainly support Nicola Sturgeon in this, because for them the interests of Scotland will always come before narrow party rivalries.
And yet, allowing the FM this and Scotland voting to stay in Europe, vetoing the UKIP & popular English demand would have allowed the Tories to remain in EU and have a scapegoat to blame, a win win for them. It’s just that whole concept of giving any ground whatsoever to the SNP or giving any recognition of Scotland as a separate nation state would be anathema to them.
Very clever Nicola!
The irony is that all of the Heads of Westminster parties would love to support it, but none can.
The process has re-started.
Galamcennalath –
That’s the plan!! 🙂
@ Mc Boxheid @4.15
Bring back the rack 🙂 !
One slight concern: if the SNP do table a motion for each home nation to have a veto there is the possibility of it getting through. Though I can’t imagine many English MPs voting for it enough pro-europe ones might not bother to vote to let it pass whilst still being able to say “I didn’t vote for it…”
EU referendum fails, no snap indyref 2.
I somehow suspect we will never hear Bill Cash or David Cameron ever mention the names Neil Findlay or Sarah Boyatt in Westminster.
O/T From BBC Scotland Live
Newspaper job cuts
Johnston Press is looking to cut between 35 to 45 jobs across the Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and Edinburgh Evening News.
The company plans to merge the operations of the three papers but each title will remain.
The NUJ Scotland said consultations on the restructuring started today and they will work to minimise the impact on jobs.
O/T Scotsman newspaper paying off 35 to 45 staff and combining the Evening News with it because of drastically falling sales.
What fools. If they had only backed Yes, or just followed a more even handed policy they would have avoided this. Many, like me, gave up on the paper after many years of readership because of its rabid Unionist line in the last 3 years.
Chickens and roosts.
Yes, it is the correct thing to do. It will mean Scotland has raised the legitimate concerns of its EU citizens, and been denied by the UK Government before the EU Referendum. The Scottish Gov will have done all it can do.
Then the rUK votes to leave the EU, Scotland votes to stay, and there’s a large number of people of almost Referendum numbers who have expressed their democratic will to stay in. Their / our democratic will will have been over=ridden, but the Sovreignty of the Scottish People is absolute. Add this, and there will be more articles I expect at the time:
“Sionaidh Douglas-Scott: British Withdrawal from the EU: an Existential Threat to the United Kingdom?”
link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org
There would be just cause for UDI, but certainly the right to go for another Independence Referendum, whether approved by Westminster or not.
That Mrs Murrell will go far.
So on her proposal, if the 1.6 million people in Northern Ireland voted by a majority of one to stay in the EU, and the British people voted by a huge majority to leave, the NI vote would overrule everybody else. To give a minority the power to veto the wishes of the majority is hardly democratic. Has she thought through the implications of her little grab for publicity?
[…] A swift answer […]
When the rUK leaves the UK what will they use for currency? If Scotland refuses a currency union, what is their Plan B?
Apart from that, if it’s looking close but with Scotland keeping the whole UK in, it could be they’ll actually ask the Scottish Government to have Indy Ref 2 even before the EU Referendum, or on the same day! It would be wise.
Mmm, this is much better for my Constitution than a Rennie. And what about him? If he’s still an MSP?
It’s a hoot.
Will Podmore – I do not doubt the SNP know exactly what they are doing – they have set a fox amongst the Westminster chickens as it now comes down to; do they need UKIP more than the Scottish economy’s input to the UK Treasury.
The myth is that the Scots have voted to preserve the Union. A vote split of 11:9 is hardly a massive recommendation for the Union given it was 4:1 in the Union’s favour in 2012.
The majority for the Union is small and needs only a 6% swing to overturn – the word to describe support for the Union in Scotland is marginal.
@Marcia
I sincerely hope not, we need her here in Scotland!
@saporian says: 29 October, 2014 at 4:34 pm:
“Johnston Press is looking to cut between 35 to 45 jobs across the Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and Edinburgh Evening News.”
That’s around 40 Westminster Establishment propaganda employees less. Note the strange fact that as the number of food banks goes up the numbers of Westminster Propagandists goes down.
That will be the same troughing Bill Cash who during the expenses scandal had to pay back fifteen thousand pounds because he was paying his daughter £1200 a month rent for her flat when he had his own place within walking distance of Westminster.
They’ll bite at anything. Just keep prodding them so that nobody can forget exactly what we have saddled ourselves with
I believe a wealthy independence supporter should buy the Scotsman, or at least put in a bid. We need a daily national newspaper that supports independence. I reckon a lot of Yessers would buy a daily paper that was independence minded.
Will Podmore
“To give a minority the power to veto the wishes of the majority is hardly democratic”
Kind of like the UK using its veto in the EU family of states …
On Nicola Sturgeon’s tactic on the EU; It pretty clear that the London establishment mean England when they talk about the UK or Britain. Scotland does not enter their thinking, we are only a possession to them. If it was not for the oil and gas located in our waters, we would have been independent a long time ago. Even SLAB this week have admitted our inferior status in the UK.
You can read many personal insults against anyone who advocates Scottish Independence here:
link to disqus.com
Will Podmore is posting in work time again, I see. As I am in London right now, I think I will pay a visit on his employers tomorrow. It is nice to think they are so awash in cash their employees can act as trolls on websites (Podmore is English, lives in England, hates Scotland, but um…. trolls on a Scottish pro-indy website). So his employers can proudly say they can take budget cuts seeing they are so awash in cash.
I have just phoned Will Podmore’s employers and they stated that his work hours are from NINE TO FIVE and, no, he should not be trolling on internet websites outside of these times!
“That is how the rules should work”
How about just sticking to to rules, Dave?
But then …. not so good at that, are you Dave?
The Tories don’t like it up em!
yesindyref2 says:
29 October, 2014 at 5:01 pm
“Kind of like the UK using its veto in the EU family of states …”
Correct, and what about the United Nations when the 5 permanent members of the Security Council, including the UK, has the power of Veto.
Good Will Hunting is a great film, but this pest is a bore. Now be a good chap Will and Plod elsewhere.
Call me Dave is jumping the gun cos the SNP have put in their proposals to the Smith commission that they want more say in the EU – it hasn’t been ruled out yet.
Good on Nicola she has just raised her profile and the Torygraph is deciding whether she is she’s ‘just as annoying’ as AS.
Excellent. Now when Labour try to rule it out they will be following Cameron’s lead and it will be a case of do you support the tory PM’s position on this?
Cameron is still about as popular in scotland as a Jimmy Saville costume at a BBC Halloween party. Though to be fair Ed Miliband is just as unpopular with the scottish public.
House of Lords talking about Vow .
@Marcia
Thanks for that. Just had a read of some of Podmore’s comments. Appears not to be UKIP, Labour, Tory or LibDem. Non-aligned I guess. Possibly a trades unionist, now with no party to go to.
@Marcia
@yesindyref2
Has claimed communist.
will pod
if that was the case many european countries would not be pleased.
link to en.wikipedia.org
malta wouldn’t stand a chance.
Johnstone Press cutting 35/45 jobs, now who,s going to pay they,re morgage. National Union of Journalists lol,btw the Doctor will give them a prescription for ointment for they Hacks ( free in Scotland ) Tick Tock set the alarm, soon to be Bbc Hacks & dont forget who told you,s so, People’s Media Service,ah know ah know thats anither joke.
All referendum in the uk are consultative
To make them binding you would need some sort of……Edinburgh agreement lol
This will cheer you, from a Prof at Oxford…..
link to snp.org
An even swifter reply by Pete Wishart:
link to snp.org
Pete Wishart SNP MP commented:
“This knee-jerk rejection by the Prime Minister to a perfectly reasonable and balanced proposal to reflect Scotland’s interests in Europe flies in the face of what he and the No campaign promised during the independence referendum.
“In the closing stages of the referendum campaign, Mr Cameron called the UK a ‘family of nations’ – the clear implication being that each ‘family member’ should have an equal say in such fundamental decisions as our future in Europe.
“And the Prime Minister was not alone in such rhetoric. His No campaign colleague Gordon Brown stressed on the very eve of the referendum that a No vote meant: ‘The old United Kingdom constitution with its uniform, centralised, Westminster sovereignty, undiluted, that is all going. That is changing before our eyes.’
“The Prime Minister’s answer today clearly showed that Westminster politicians think it is still business as usual in Scotland – which it most definitely is not.”
Now where is that popcorn…
Kenny says:
29 October, 2014 at 5:13 pm
I have just phoned Will Podmore’s employers and they stated that his work hours are from NINE TO FIVE and, no, he should not be trolling on internet websites outside of these times!
Well done Kenny, in these cash strapped times, I’m sure Mr Plopmore should be a bit more focussed on his work, and leave off abusing the Scots, until its on his own time.
its great . Almost every day another example of the inequity of this Union gets exposed. love it!
O/T
RT launching a UK news channel tomorrow
link to rt.com
Jeezo 87% turnout and he says politics is out of favour, how arrogant and superior can these people be.
On another note the BBC is reporting that another 45 journalists are going to lose their jobs at the Scotsman and Edinburgh Evening News – see link to bbc.co.uk
What is it they say again about reaping what you have sowed?
That comment was on lennie at hol, he finished with an advert for his area of the country. Does anyone anywhere deserve this plague of locusts.
@Madjock
– the word to describe support for the Union in Scotland is marginal.
“IF you vote No, then you will get more powers … (Gordon Brown)
the words to describe support for the Union in Scotland is marginal & conditional.
@ yesindyref2 says: 29 October, 2014 at 4:37 pm:
“Great Link, yesindyref2
I’ll repeat it : –
link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org
I’ve been preaching since boyhood that, “diceyan orthodoxy”, has no place in Scottish law. I never could remember the phrase. As a schoolboy in Edinburgh I used to sit on a street bench and talk with an old legal chap. He was very much like the, “Rumpole of the Bailey”, TV character and a really interesting old raconteur. I was always an independence supporter and history buff and so was the old guy.
He laid it all out quoting precedent in Scottish legal cases and quite simply the events of Bruce murdering the Comyn on the High Kirk of Dumfries set up what was to be a main plank of Scottish law. The resultant Papal excommunication of Bruce plunged Scotland into crisis. One contender dead and the other excommunicated meant that, as the general law of Christendom was, “Divine Right of Kings”, and as the monarch owned everything including the people all Scotland was excommunicated. Furthermore, all English church meetings began by cursing Scotland.
This was when the Declaration of Arbroath was drawn up and sent to the Head of Christendom – The Pope. It not only declared Scotland an independent Kingdom but set the precedent that the monarchy wasNOT sovereign but only the, “Protector of the People of Scotland’s Sovereignty”. That was in 1320. It was accepted by the English monarchy in 1328.
The situation of The Three country Kingdom of England also changed in 1688 when the English Parliament deposed their monarchy and inported King Billy & Queen Mary but removed from them the Royal veto over the English Parliament. So England, Wales & Ireland became a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, and that made the 3 country Parliament of the Kingdom of England legally still a monarchy but with the parliament sovereign. It also began the Jacobite uprisings that ran from 1688 to 1745 and it a priority for that English Kingdom to have, “A treaty of Union”, but at no time did the people of Scotland cede their sovereignty to the new joint Parliament. In fact it is an article of that treaty that the Scottish legal system remains independent.
Thus, as the sovereign people of Scotland, Westminster only holds sovereignty over Scotland as long as a majority of her people allow Westminster to legislate over Scotland. If you read the Declaration of Arbroath then the sovereignty is retained by the people who retain the right to sack their Monarch and appoint another in their place and thus to sack their monarch and thus the parliament that wields the sovereignty on the monarch’s behalf.
It thus remains the people of Scotland’s legal right to appoint whoever we wish to hold sovereignty on our behalf.
Sky News reporting that Skeletor is standing for the Scottish branch office job after all.
Demotion from his beloved Westminster right enough, but taking one for the team – with a nice consolation package and lordship no doubt sorted out to replace all these nice expenses.
And his ego was missing the Jim Murphy show on the Scottish news every night.
So “the settled will of the Scottish people” to remain in the UK is fine but if “the settled will of the Scottish people” is to remain in the EU then our Imperial Masters can tell us to f@ck off back into our box. What a wonderful union we voted to stay part of (an insignificant part of), grrrrrrrrr!
P45s at the Scotsman. 🙂
Cameron’s rejection of Sturgeon’s sensible ammendment will, surely, be followed by Milliband’s rejection of it. Which is why it now becomes absolutely imperative that at the 2015 GE, Scotland votes overwhelmingly for pro EU parties. We need to be able to say to Westminster that it is the ‘settled will of the Scottish people’ that we remain in the UK at the GE AND at any EU in/out referendum. We will have spoken TWICE. If the majority we send to WM are EU-skeptics (Labour ??), then I fear it would make Sturgeon’s veto demand much less weighty than just a majority at an EU ref.
@Robert Peffers:
That’s around 40 Westminster Establishment propaganda employees less. Note the strange fact that as the number of food banks goes up the numbers of Westminster Propagandists goes down.
That’s precisely the kind of callous comment I was expecting NOT to find here.
How do you know? Does anybody have to decline their political feelings when starting at the Scotsman? How are you sure the guys/gals who write about sports, or weather, or international affairs, or culture, etc. or the people that work at the advertisement department are Unionists? The odds are that, except for the chief edition and the political redaction, you can find YES and NO supporters in every team.
And I will add that if I were the boss, and a NO supporter, and knowing the sales figure are slumping because the indys have ceased buying my newspaper, then I would first fire the yessers (“After all, it’s their fault, no?”)
Stop buying the unionist newspapers is fine. But please invest your saved pennies in crowdfunding independent media that can hire those who are laid off.
Muttley79
I happen to be in London at the moment and can confirm your view that Scotland is regarded as a colony, whose subjects can be ignored by the mighty English establishment. The press, the TV, the radio make me feel like I belong to a different planet not the cuddly Union that we were promised.
Although I know there is poverty in parts of London, the amount of money being spent on new buildings in the centre is amazing–scaffolding everywhere, while Crossrail 1 is proceeding underground at a cost of £15 billion, and the talk is now of when Crossrail 2, costing £20 billion will start (no Barnett consequentials of course). New railway lines to “the North” i.e. Birmingham are now the talk of the town but Scotland won’t get anything from that either.
Very frustrating!
Nicola is arguing tgat the UK is not a unitary state, as the government imagines, but a Union state. This is a legal point which has been argued recently. The constitution of the UK is that it is a Union of two kingdoms and four nations. They misunderstand this but perhaps the European Commission might think differently.
@Devorgilla
They misunderstand this but perhaps the European Commission might think differently.
Especially if it suits their political agenda.
This is a great lever that Scotland has.
So, they will trample on the wishes of the electorate. Business as usual then, I don’t bloody think so.
AuldA
Robert Peffers was talking about the newsteam members at the Scotsman who will be losing their jobs as sales of the newspaper soar like a lead balloon.
Not the posters here.
We English own you jocks and will do what we want with you. Stuff human rights.
Fascist.
I agree totally with AuldA on this – the employees are not the problem.
If England left the eu, what happens to all the other eu passport holders in England, would they be forced to leave?
What about English living in the REU, would they lose their right to stay?
That UKIP prat Coburn really is a clown.
Robert Peffers has explained, the situation many times on the UK. We are sovereign in Scotland.
AuldA
We have crowd funded new media, but I am finding it difficult to feel sorry for those who worked with thevuk media to deprive Scotland of its independence
Are there an links for Nicola’s gig tonite.
Nothing about any of this on BBC R4 PM news tonight, nothing. They did nice things about autumn leaf colours on English stately homes which was rather dull but you get the drift. The fluffy side of teamGB propaganda.
We can expect no agreement from Westminster(all parties the same anyway)so the best route would be to declare UDI without their ‘unrequired’ permission.
The International Court of Justice has stated in a 2010 advisory opinion:::
Unilateral declarations of Independence are not illegal.
AuldA
I have jusr reread you comment and realise I had taken the wrong conclusion, sorry.
However I do agree with him that the Scotsman, whose position on independence for Scotland makes it an utter disgrace to the laudable ideals of journalism.
Their sales problems have have been obvious to all and the fact it was entirely due to their messianic and visceral hatred of Scottish independence. A bit like Labour in Scotland.
Their gradual erosion of sales has been the longest suicide note in the annals of newspapers in the UK. Fall out of touch with your audience and be prepared to pay the cost, up to and including business failure.
It is a chosen path they have taken and the most part of those
who make up the writing group. They, given the nature of their work would be well aware of the editorial position of their newspaper and have had many years to find alternative employment.
The reporters and journalists who doi the political work seem to move from this newspaper to the next one and the attrition rate looks to be high, like marketing managers. Two years at the most and they move on.
So, the redundancies reflect the reality check of the market place. It also reflects to us independence supporters the encouragement of the thought that we are overcoming the London Establishment.
A sad but necessary human collateral in the march to independence.
Red & Blue Tories – British Bully Boys.
Democracy? Long gone – strangled by R&B Tory neo-Liberalism.
Top trouchers debating in the chambers on BBC parly at the moment.
@ Schrodingdong’s cat – there are more than journos and pontificators working for the MSM – and many of them were Yes voters, who do you think will be first for the chop? Are you going to welcome job losses at any UKOK company on the same basis, now please think – and that goes for the rest of you who think such losses of livelihood are to be celebrated.
A Tory MP called Cash asking a question.
Oh the irony…
My advice don’t seek a career in journalism. The phone hacking scandal and the reporting of the referendum has shown us all that journalists live in the sewers.
@ Auald A, I seen to recall a trial that the collective accused pleaded , they were only Following Orders.If nothing else it sends a warning to other Journalists Print & Tv Radio.
Crowdfunding the New Media & employ those Jounalist, there,s a Plethera of Young Journalist more suited to the New Media.
Flee wie the Craws n awe that.
Pr
I never said I celebrated the job losses
I said I found it difficult to feel sorry for them
Btw, it is the force of us on social media calling for people to boycot theses MSM outlets which are contributing to these job loses
We can’t have it both ways
Schrodingdong’s cat?????
The crazy thing is I’m still reading folk on twitter who are all very happy about Scotland’s position.
I got accused of being odious and bitter cos I said it was great having someone like Nicola on our side.
I don’t understand these Proud Scots
Nicola Sturgeon is doing Scotland proud. Listen to her talk in such a clear, measured way. Actually answering the questions! Making sense with every sentence. UKIP guy talks like a yokel after a few pints too many.
I don’t feel sorry for the ‘journalists’ losing their jobs.
If papers such as the Hootsman didn’t lie through their teeth, Scotland would have had a better chance of being independent and more jobs would have followed.
Blame the scaremongers and naysayers, they are the ones that have caused this.
When hearing about the cash being spent on London, Edinburgh would have been in a similar position with new embassies and so on.
Think of the number of journalists that would have been needed to cover all the political stuff going on.
Visits from heads of state etc.
It was the folk with no vision that have caused this
Sc honey – I do not think blaming employees for a company’s stance re Indy is helpful, the job losses will not be amongst those “following orders” but those who do what they’re told to make a living.
Paula Rose says:
29 October, 2014 at 6:48 pm
“there are more than journos and pontificators working for the MSM – and many of them were Yes voters,”
____________________________________
And you know this how, Paula?
@Paula Rose
Sorry to talk cliché-speak, but on the subject of job losses, it’s a case of ‘live by the sword…’
And, ‘as one door closes…’
No-one wants the innocents to be out of work, but we cannot let issues such as this stop us putting commercial pressure on these biased, impartial collaborating organisations.
What about the many thousands of innocent Scot’s impacted by the continuation of this corrupt Union?
I’m sorry to say, but a little collateral (hopefully short-term) damage for the interests of the masses wins the arguments here.
Like many I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone working for the Scotsman.
They did not think about those using foodbanks ,those deciding heat or eat as they did their daily jobs for Hootsman money.
They put themselves before Scotland and the 5.2 million Scots so why should anyone care for 45 or 100 remaining JP employees ,screw them ,the very same way they screwed and continue to screw over Scotland.
According to the Lords at Westminster the Yes camp were the brutes and barbarians and poor Nick Robinson needed a bodyguard.
To think we could have dumped these privileged parasites .
@Will Podmore says: 29 October, 2014 at 4:41 pm:
“Has she thought through the implications of her little grab for publicity?”
Have you thought through the real legal facts, Will? Ms Sturgeon is a very well quallified lawyer who, unlike many of the Westminster members, actually practised law before going into politics. I’m sure Ms Sturgeon will have indeed though through the legal implications. May I enquire what your legal training was?
I’m no layer but the plain facts are that the term, “United Kingdom”, quite clearly describes a Kingdom, i.e. a royal realm. Which may, or may not, also be a country. Nowhere is there a shred of evidence that the United Kingdom is other than as described in the Treaty of Union that made the, “United Kingdom” a legal entity. Furthermore, the United Kingdom is a bipartite treaty between two equally sovereign former independent kingdoms. (Unless you know otherwise).
The Kingdom of Scotland that actually was also a single country and the kingdom of England that annexed the Principality of Wales in 1284, (Statute of Rhuddlan), and annexed Ireland in 1542, (Crown of Ireland Act), and which Kingdom was thus a three country kingdom.
Then we have the legal fact that the Kingdom of Scotland of 1706/7 legally did not have a monarch who was sovereign in Scotland while the Kingdom of England had removed from their monarchy the veto over the parliament of England in 1688 and thus the Kingdom of England, (all three countries), was/is legally a Constitutional Monarchy.
To sum up – The Parliament of the United Kingdom has a sovereign monarch but the sovereignty is legally held by Westminster but the people of Scotland are sovereign, it is not Westminster nor the Queen of Scots, who hold sovereignty over the Kingdom of Scotland. It is the legally Sovereign people of Scotland.
Thus, if we, the people, wish to withdraw our sovereignty from Westminster , (and we do have a legally elected Parliament of Scotland that we have given our sovereignty to), we can quite legally have them declare the Treaty of Union disunited by a majority vote of the sovereign people of Scotland.
I agree liz but as others have said you cannot lump all the newspaper staff together.
Nicola seems to be setting up a few key areas to fight future battles on which is all to the good. I just wish she and the SNP would bloody start to tackle the BBC head on.
Its one thing keeping positive with the voting public but the softly, softly approach with the BBC has totally failed. She cannot rely on the web to counteract the propaganda on its own :-/
The Force is strong in this one. Before phoney old CiF Graun mods deletes. Great stuff!
19 PEOPLE, 28 COMMENTS
SporadicWit
28 October 2014 2:01pm
Recommended
186
SARAWAR’S EPISODE 2 : ATTACK OF THE BLAIR DRONES
One upon a time, in a Parliament far, far away, the Empire is in chaos. Emperor Miliband, feared leader of the Imperial Masters has become aware of growing discontent, threatening his plans for.domination of the universe. After thinking carefully about it for a year, he realises that swift action is urgently required.
He consults his deputy Alexander, dark master of the art of rendering people unconcious with the mere sound of his voice. After consulting the entrails of a focus group, a clever two prong plan is hatched to stamp out resistance on the rebel planet of Caledonia.
To distract attention, Prince Anas, hereditary ruler of Glasgow Central and heir to the Punjab, is assigned to create a display of self preening, guaranteed to capture the attention of the media. Striding over the state school educated scum, he declares himself as a mere mortal, astounded to be considered such a lunimary of the Empire. When questioned as to who had ever described him as a luminary, he cleverly evades.
Meanwhile, an ancient weapond designed and built by one of the Emperor’s predecessors has been prepared in great secrecy..General Jim Murphy has been given command of the Death Star, an Irn Bru crate, in which he will orbit the planet Caledonia, bombarding it into submission with his megaphone. His orders are to eliminate all resistance.
But on Caledonia, the not quite Rebel Alliance, are not without hope. After many adventures, including the betrayal of a close colleague and a bit of a kicking in the Sunday newspapers, Prince Lamont has finally reached her destination. She carries with her plans which reveal that General Jims defences are curiously vulnerable to being shouted back at, particularly by old ladies. Furthermore, blueprints of the Death Star reveal that a single, well placed egg may cause critical damage and defeat the attack, forcing General Jim to take the weekend off.
The elderly leaders of the Rebel Alliance, McConnell and McLeish, watch in concern as their new, top secret, LfS Fighter Craft are fuelled and armed with cartons of eggs. They are aware that their young pilots, fresh from the rebel academy of Holyrood, have little experience of the universe outwith Caledonia. Who will step forward to lead the attack?
To be continued……
Grab your Popcorn!
Nick Robinson had a bodyguard??????
I would like to know more about that.
Sir Jeremy Heywood, cabinet secretary to David Cameron also leads the UK’s civil service. He wields immense power and exercises it routinely in defence of the government and in furtherance of his own agenda.
Edward Snowden worked for the NSA for a time but became disillusioned with the service viewing it’s policies to be counter productive, invasive and illegal. He gathered sensitive information, disappeared from his office then surfaced in Hong Kong where he leaked copious amounts of information to, “the Guardian” newspaper who in turn released much of it to the UK public.
Needless to say the proverbial, “s–t hit the fan” and there followed many months of accusations, denials, warnings, threats and government interference which, at the time of writing is still on-going. Sir Jeremy featured at the UK end taking action against the Guardian designed to bring to an end, (without success) to the revelations of Snowden who subsequently took refuge in Russia.
There is a large amount of press coverage and I have gathered a selection of relevant writings for study, over some time. The content is disturbing but truly reflects the activities of the US and UK government’s secret services.
link to caltonjock.com
Earl of Stair. Scotland voted on 17th Sept in pure Dundonian
!EH
So – all employees of all UKOK supporting companies should resign in order to keep their integrity and rely upon the UK government to see them OK? I expect the same stupid attitude will apply to Tesco employees?
@Ali says:29 October, 2014 at 4:59 pm:
“They’ll bite at anything. Just keep prodding them so that nobody can forget exactly what we have saddled ourselves with.”
Should we crowd fund a load of pointy sticks to issue to all indy supporting MSPs? The next wee while should see quite a bit of pointy stick prodding going on.
Getting overheated – substitute Asda for Tesco.
Awe its ok the Earl of Stair is a Cross bencher,ah make mistooks when am angry.
Paula I’m not sorry for the journos either, surely the Nuremberg argument comes into force when considering if either empathy or sorrow is appropriate towards the individuals concerned?
Personally it does and I can find neither for them.
I’m sure they will of course find employment outwith journalism, who knows it may suit them better.
Pr
Once again I never said I blamed them for following orders
I said I find it difficult to feel sorry for them, not the same thing
But I take yours and AuldA ‘s point about celebrating other peoples misfortune
I hope they find new employment in the new independent scottish media which I will support to the hilt when it is launched
In the mean time I will continue to boycot all the companies who threatened the people of Scotland during the referendum
This is a power that I have and do not intend to give it up, regardless of job losses
What we are seeing is the beginning of an adjustment through market forces of the press in Scotland. When there are 37 daily newspapers and not 1 supported the views of 45% of the population that is not sustainable.
Either the press need to change or the market will change them by filleting the press currently catering for somewhere around half of the (voting) public.
The market is saturated with anti-independence and anti-SNP papers. It is hardly surprising they ate all struggling after alienating almost half of the voting public.
Shame for any yes voters getting punted but it’s the senior management and owners who have destroyed the Scotsman.
Conan the Librarian says
“A Tory MP called Cash asking a question.
Oh the irony…”
If he were to get a proxy to ask “questions for Cash”
would that be ok?
Ah’ll- eh- get ma ermine lined cloak.
… wouldn’t it have been great for the Scotsman if it could have taken a simple editorial decision a year ago to appeal to the unrepresented 45%. What a turnaround that could have been.
Unfortunately the mentality is such that for the senior management they would rather have folded.
They were No zealots throughout the campaign.
I think the job losses at the Scotsman were inevitable
Newspapers don’t print truth, the print what sells copy
In this case though, they didn’t
The sales figures for the Sunday herald prove this
The Scotsman was deliberately run at a loss to be a mouth peice for the no camp
Win or lose, the Scotsman was always going to fold
In order 😉
@gillie: The phone hacking scandal and the reporting of the referendum has shown us all that journalists live in the sewers.
I’ll let Stu’ answer to that. I’m sure he will be delighted.
@BtP: They, given the nature of their work would be well aware of the editorial position of their newspaper and have had many years to find alternative employment.
Theoretically. But Stu’ noted that, apart from one isolated case, ALL Scottish newspapers were unionist. So, what real choice there was?
@Paula Rose: Thanks xx
@Schrödinger’s cat: I know. But I was thinking that if everyone who had ceased buying the Scotsman would spare the corresponding money, let’s say 50p per day, that would translate into £15 at the end of a month, multiplied by… how many? At the end, what suggested Muttley79 (4.59 pm) would be possible. You’re not pleased with your newspaper? Then stop buying it, spare the money, collect it and make a collective bid to acquire the rag and change its editorial line.
@Ronnie Anderson: Not even that. In a newspaper, there is, as you say, a plethora of employees who do not write. Think about the people working on the offset printers, for example. I may be idealistic or a wild dreamer. But I shall never forget those words of Voltaire: ‘Il vaut mieux hasarder de sauver un coupable que de condamner un innocent’ (‘Better risk freeing a culprit than condemn an innocent’).
rt.com/uk/200411-rt-uk-channel-launch/
Global news network RT is set to launch a dedicated British news channel on Thursday. The new station, RT UK, will challenge dominant power structures in Britain by broadcasting live and original programming with a progressive UK focus.
RT UK will be available to more than 90 percent of UK households via Freeview (Channel 135), Sky (Channel 512) and Free Sat (Channel 206).
If Max Kaiser is anything to go by, RT UK will be the complete opposite of the BBC. Good news for Scotland. Bad news for unionism
Only the brain dead will be unaware that politics in GB over the next few years is going to be quite a ride. RT will know that and starting Thursday have probably caught the wave just at the right time.
I suspect that if they play their cards right, RT could become a major player in UK broadcasting and could easily catch the mood of dissatisfaction in the country with the status quo at WM, and be it’s voice on TV.
In which case, Cameron will probably shut it down.
Scotland is afloat on an ocean of uncertainty, the same as for any country in the World. We had the means of making a sail, a needle to make a compass, and canvas to paint our sail on with needle and gut. We had the choice to make our sail, magnetise our needle on the canvas and stick it on a cork in water to show us the way. Then we could hoist our sail and steer our boat in whatever direction we wanted.
On September 18th, 55% of Scotland voted to do nothing, but drift on the currents and the winds of chance. Now we all have to hope they take us the right way.
Needs a bit of work, but there’s probably something usable there if anyone wants to bother!
Test again. 19.49
@ heedtracker could ah put in a order for 6 seats at your Fringe show next August & dont continue the story tae then.Ah want tae be there eating the popcorn, of friends an having a laugh in company.
Johann Lamont has defined Scottish labour as a “Branch”.
So I had to assist in designing their new Scottish Labour Logo.
link to i57.tinypic.com
She wants it spread far and wide and the next time you run into a Scottish Labour Party rep, wave a little branch in their face.
I prefer Johnny Cash, we will bring it back one piece at a time 🙂
edit edit edit again
These redundancies will send shock waves through the Scottish msm. I wonder who the high profile casualties are? We can always chip in and send them a Get Well Soon card.
AuldA
Fair doos
But there is more than one way to bring about an independent scottish media
Yours is one way, but not being a journalist myself, I tend to let those who are decide the best way forward
That’s why I crowd fund people like the rev, Derrick Bateman and kevin from Indy I’ve
Your idea has merit, launch a crowd fund and I’ll support it
I can’t say fairer than that?
So if we get taken out of Europe, with no veto, can’t we just apply to join as Scotland? Then we’d have a union of nations, one of which is in Europe, while the others aren’t. That would be fun.The two unions (UK and Europe) would be incompatible, so it would force independence.
Maybe we should start the application process now, so we’re ready to roll if England votes to leave Europe.
O/T wee ginger dug has a new post that is a must read.
Looks like we have a cunning plan….
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
About the Scotsman, it’s people who are losing jobs, their livelihoods, perhaps their homes, their kids being uprooted same as anyone, not biases or owner propoganda.
And the Scotsman covered some “pro-indy” stories that even Sunday Herald didn’t, as well as providing non-political articles about Scotland, and the other kultural stuff.
@ Alistair I was being diplomatic in my comment 6.42, then you come in with the blunt force bludgeon 7.31,dont mention the war. nae wee winky thingies.
You need to think whether the UK main parties can have strategic thought over anything. Being pragmatic, I think the PM is just thick – I’m glad he did (referendum vote), but why on earth would you agree to a vote on something that could only impact negatively to your status quo.
He’s thick I tell ya, which is why he wouldn’t even consider Nicola’s response because of 1) Who she is 2) Where she’s from – considering the option Nicola proposes would give him a way out of the mess he’s gonna create when England vote yes to leave the EU…. p*&%k
I know this would not happen but imagine if the in/out referendum was very close (ruth told us) and the SNP said lets fuck the daily record,BBC English tories/lab/lib parties and asda to name a few and all vote OUT
Tempted to do this with my own vote if it ever comes to be out of spite
What we find in books is like the fire in our hearths. We fetch it from our neighbors, we kindle it at home, we communicate it to others, and it becomes the property of all.
Voltaire
@ caz_m if the labour party is the branch ur the members cawed Twiglets.
Will SNP run in 2016 on policy of staying in EU?
If they get a majority, the intentions of the Scottish electorate re the 2017 referendum will already be clear. There’s quite a decent amount of time between the two dates for clarification of their legal position despite what Dave may say. In fact he didn’t answer Cash’s question (quick Nick – get on it). Was anyone disputing that there will be ONE referendum on the matter in 2017?
I’m wondering what the wording of the question on any possible referendum will be. I have a feeling it may not be simple.
Cant wait for the eu referendum. Lets call the campaign , ‘Besser zusammen’, ‘Mieux ensemble’, or even ‘Meglio insieme’ We can really make the ‘Better Together’ campaign choke on its own words in as many European languages possible!!!
Leaving the EU would be worse for England than even Scottish Independence. Cameron knows that.
As Michael Portillo has said: “A Referendum can be fixed.”
RT UK – dedicated UK news channel from tomorrow, with local, regional and national news. 5 hours broadcasting daily, looped. On Freeview 135. Time to ditch some others methinks.
saporian says:
29 October, 2014 at 4:34 pm
O/T From BBC Scotland Live
Newspaper job cuts
Johnston Press is looking to cut between 35 to 45 jobs across the Scotsman, Scotland on Sunday and Edinburgh Evening News.
The company plans to merge the operations of the three papers but each title will remain.
The NUJ Scotland said consultations on the restructuring started today and they will work to minimise the impact on jobs.
________________________
That is indeed good news.
To every one of those “journalists”:
Who promoted the Unionist message.
Who have helped London to continue lording it over us.
Who have helped London to continue sucking the wealth right out from under our childrens futures.
Merry fricken Xmas and may 2015 be nothing but misery for you.
I feel a song coming on:
((((( KARMA KARMA KARMA KARMA CHAMELEON )))))
🙂
btw, “The NUJ Scotland said they will work to minimise the impact on jobs.”
No shit, Sherlock, don’t you think that should have started way
before the Scottish Independence Referendum with a stern warning of what a ‘No’ vote would bring? Bit late now, eh!
@Schröd’s moggy:
But there is more than one way to bring about an independent scottish media
Fair enough, I don’t claim exclusivity! Only the goal counts, not the means! Besides, I wish there were not one, but many!
The point is (metaphorically): don’t condemn to death if you cannot give life.
@yesindyref2
About the Scotsman, it’s people who are losing jobs, their livelihoods, perhaps their homes, their kids being uprooted same as anyone, not biases or owner propoganda.
And the Scotsman covered some “pro-indy” stories that even Sunday Herald didn’t, as well as providing non-political articles about Scotland, and the other kultural stuff.
I think it would very good if the Weirs or Jim McColl etc tried to buy the Scotsman. It is bad for Scotland that people are losing their jobs. The city the size of Edinburgh, and the wider nation, needs newspapers like the Scotsman to offer quality journalism. I would much rather see wealthy independence supporters take over the Scotsman, than see it disappear altogether, and that is the danger the paper is now facing.
@ Auld A re the use of the word Plethera was in relation to the wealth of young talent in Modern Media studies ( not) any of the Scotsman journos, I dont celebrate anyone loseing thy’re job,but that is the inevitable consequence of their employers actions across the board Press /TV/Supermarkets, & those buisneses reachable by ordinary people US.
Has anyone considered that maybe YES supporting employees deliberately put themselves in the firing line? I know it’s a long shot but what if they knew sales were on their way down so they helped it a bit to speed along the redundancies.
It’s easier to walk away from an employer with a redundancy package (which will be more than the statutory minimum given the company is still trading) than quitting in an uncertain job market.
Just a thought.
Just to add to my last post, I honestly believe a daily national newspaper supporting independence would get similar levels of support from Yessers, that the Sunday Herald has managed to achieve.
@ No no no…Yes says: 29 October, 2014 at 5:39 pm:
“The Prime Minister’s answer today clearly showed that Westminster politicians think it is still business as usual in Scotland – which it most definitely is not.”
It really is hilarious,NNN … Y, and no more than the machinations of the Westminster Establishment was always going to end up as. The situation of the sitting coalition Government’s two parties climbing into bed with the Westminster Establishment’s opposition had, “Vale of Tears”, written all over it, (even if we discount deliberate back-stabbing), and neither side of that bed was ever going to come out of it without lots of pain. A marriage made in hell.
They appointed two, yesterday’s men, failed Labour backbenchers as official Better Together spokespersons and Better Together was properly set up. Now that means whatever those two do or say it is official Westminster Establishment business. So whatever the official Better Together spokes-person’s say is what Westminster has promised. They were not speaking as Labour Party spokespersons nor, coalition spokespersons. They were representing the official Westminster Better Together campaign.
Not only that but there is the little matter of the three party leader’s signatures being used by The Daily Record. Here again there are two options. The vow was not denied by any of the three leaders so, if the Record has evidence they agreed to the vow being printed, then it is a legal contract. If not there is the fact they made no denial.
If Westminster now slopes shoulders on the promise then they are guilty of several laws being broken and if the Record has such proof then at least the Westminster lot are guilty of being complicit in the crime both before and after the act. At worse the Record could be broken by as many court cases as YES voters care to bring against the Record. We we, after all, cheated by those promises.
Looks like the battle lines are being drawn.
Well done Nicola Sturgeon – that’s exactly what we wanted to hear from Cameron.
@Schröd… :
Very nice quote.
BTW, speaking of new media, did somebody receive a mail from the ‘Scottish news’ team recently?
needs newspapers like the Scotsman to offer quality journalism
Muttley, hows the weather on Pluto these days? Down here its a cool but otherwise fine autumnal day
mandadboy says: If Max Kaiser is anything to go by, RT UK will be the complete opposite of the BBC. Good news for Scotland. Bad news for unionism
I do love Max Keiser most of the time, other times he is like a 12 year old on crack! The great thing he has done is break down economics, how big corporations and capitalism works to control us, and how we have such little say. He has good guests on who explain things like TTIP, and how it will remove our democracy, and lose us money etc.
I watch quite a lot of RT and Aljazeera, and I’m quite often open mouthed at the levels of poverty, abuse going on in parts of the world that the BBC never covers.
I think he was genuinely dumbfounded when Scotland voted No
Ronnie
If wee Johann is happy calling Scottish Labour “The Branch”, then “The Branch” it shall be called.
Mmm, the US had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope, Steve Jobs and Stevie Wonder.
The UK now has Cash, but NO Hope, NO Jobs – and NO Wonder!
I don’t feel sorry for the journalists of the Scotsman at all. The real story is that newspapers are contracting. Scotland has had a large number of media outlets which are neither Scottish in outlook or in ownership. If you want to be successful in any business you need to find a part of the market. The Scotsman long ago abandoned any pro-Scottish stance. Who have they thought was going to buy it, the one UKIP MEP and one Tory MP? The trouble really is one of brand. The Scotsman has been run into the ground and presumably the people employed to write for it have been under instruction on what to write and how to write it. I’d rather give the Wee Ginger Dug a wage than a group who have contributed nothing to the debate but negativity. Journalism comes in many forms. it’s time to support those who have courage and wit.
@nigel
needs newspapers like the Scotsman to offer quality journalism
Muttley, hows the weather on Pluto these days? Down here its a cool but otherwise fine autumnal day
No idea what you are on about. Care to elaborate?
Nicola Sturgeon at the Corn Exchange,Edinburgh was awesome. She is so less aggressive and so temperate in her attitude compared to me.I feel so more hopeful.
@muttley79
Just to add to my last post, I honestly believe a daily national newspaper supporting independence would get similar levels of support from Yessers, that the Sunday Herald has managed to achieve.
Of course, so why the fuck doesn’t some individual, organisation or business make it happen! There is a massive gap in the market just waiting there to be filled.
Neil Mackay of the Sunday Herald getting all concerned over job losses at the Scotsman.
All very touching don’t you think.
Brilliant news that RT are opening up a studio in the UK. I have been a keen follower of RT TV for a while now. Its the only place you find out exactly what’s going on in the world.
Also the Scotsman folding made my night. If it is merging with the Evening News, what will the new newspaper be called? Or does anybody really care.
I have also figured out why the Channel 4 News team have been looking so smug lately. It’s because the bastards couldn’t believe their luck when some mug finally decided to take Sarah Smith off their hands.
Where did she end up again?
@Ronnie: yeah, I took it so, don’t worry.
As Muttley79 pointed out, there should be plenty of opportunities in a country like Scotland for journalists, both old timers and young rookies, to work in a newspaper that corresponds to their ideas, be they pro or con independence.
I remember, in the very next days after the referendum, there was a flow of positive energy, a wind of enthusiasm, a tidal wave of excitement, with a lot of projects, proposals, ideas floating around and blooming; it was like the spring of Scotland. This magical instant seems to be gone, and now that creative force appears to have twisted itself into some kind of hatred and resentment especially directed towards the existing newspapers. Indy is about creation, hope and joy, not destruction and bitterness and hate.
Please lads n lasses read No No No Yes at 8.02. Wee Ginger Dug & get behind this Scot 2 Scot inative, long have I said this is whats required, every group helping others.
So all those job losses are journalists? In which case I won’t be giving a damn.
WESTMINSTER BULLSHIT and FRONT END BLUFF.
This pathetic old fashioned approach is so out of touch with the REVITALISED electorate.
WE CAN WAIT, because we are patient in our belief that WESTMINSTER IS BEING DECONSTRUCTED.
SCOTLAND is CREATIVE, WILLING AND DETERMINED.
WESTMINSTER is DEAD, UNABLE AND DECAYING.
Desperate people do desperate things. Keep your eyes and ears open. Their actions are so predictable.
Is it now the case that in broadcast media one looks for impartial news coverage outwith one’s own country?
I emailed my MP Douglas Alexander a copy of the Tom Clarke email to Miliband regarding the “VOW”. I asked Alexander if he recognised the language being used, and did he agree that there was no VOW.
I contacted Alexander just to let him know that we are on their case.
I also emailed him a copy of Scottish Labour’s new logo.
link to tinypic.com
The reply should be interesting.
@ Paula Rose
AYE
@ yesindyref2 says:
29 October, 2014 at 8:08 pm
“About the Scotsman, it’s people who are losing jobs, their livelihoods, perhaps their homes, their kids being uprooted same as anyone, not biases or owner propoganda.”
I am sorry, but the Scotsman campaigned against indy while pretending to be a “news” paper — it isn’t, it is a nasty little propaganda rag for a foreign country which is treating Scotland like a colony.
The Scotsman never cease trumpeting house price inflation as well.
Indy would have led to the creation of an oil fund; the proceeds would have been used to target child poverty in Scotland. We would also have had massive savings from scrapping Trident.
The Scotsman campaigned AGAINST this, not even because of principles, but because it is part of the incestual polticians-media relationship. And those who received a salary from the Scotsman ought to have known from the start what they were doing — and how it would all end in tears…
The Scotsman is EVIL, pure and simple. Sometimes you have to make choices in life who you sup with…..
A Tory MP called Cash asking a question.
About as far right as as Tory can get without falling off Lands End. Last time I looked he was still chairman of the infamous 1922 Committee – a prize English nationalist to shame any BNP Bigot.
Stuart Farquhar of the Scotsman claims he voted Yes and that we should all be fukin’ ashamed of ourselves.
Nope! I don’t believe either.
I am trying to find where I saw the graphic recently. Newspapers are history.
Journalism is not dead – although what passes for that in modern North Britain is dubious. But please get over the idea that a printed “newspaper” is what we need here.
Only a handful of press sites online are making any money. The Daily Fail supposedly does, but so far nobody has solved the problem of making a profit from newspapers any more. Online versions – free usually – are often money pits. In the UK the MOT is omnipresent and essentially free. You cannot print newspapers unless people want to part with money for them, or advertisers want to subsidise them, or rich men want to buy influence with them.
Newspapers are history. Now a really interesting website running Scottish stories might be viable, but it still wont be picked up by your No voting Granny, cos she hasnt got an iPad or an iPhone. So we are no further forward.
Spud Murphy, now in the Labour rat race, interview.in the Daily Record, let me know what he said, I won’t buy that rag, in fact I don’t want to know what he said, I would not believe it anyway.
@AuldA says:
29 October, 2014 at 6:06 pm:
“That’s precisely the kind of callous comment I was expecting NOT to find here. How do you know? Does anybody have to decline their political feelings when starting at the Scotsman?”
Yeah! Tough isn’t it? Thing is they knew what they were joining when they signed up. I won’t feel sympathy for anyone who worked for Wonga either, they know they are in a company conning folks.
Neither do I feel sympathy for the average elected members who fail to be elected – not being elected is part of the job. On the other hand I have every sympathy for those people in the caring industry who do not get paid for travelling between their clients.I also have sympathy for those on zero hours contracts or those paid below the legal limits.
Liz — I agree with you. The people of Edinburgh need their heads looking at! What city votes against becoming the capital of an independent nation!?! With all the world’s embassies, diplomats, conferences, you name it, coming to town! The inflow of capital would be enormous. Even more so as the Scottish pound or whatever would be a petrocurrency and that would make Edinburgh a very serious financial capital!
I am so proud of all those who campaigned for YES and who refuse to give up. But it has to be accepted that the NO voters have covered Scotland in international shame. A country which may have had an AAA credit rating, higher than the UK, votes AGAINST this?! I really feel 55% of our population ARE too stupid and almost deserve to be colonised…
Famous15 says:
29 October, 2014 at 9:00 pm
Nicola Sturgeon at the Corn Exchange,Edinburgh was awesome. She is so less aggressive and so temperate in her attitude compared to me.I feel so more hopeful.
__________________________
Don’t let that wee demure appearance fool you, it’s a mistake i can see a lot of her inexperienced foe making.
She sure knows her stuff and she’s got more backbone than any of
her Unionist male counterparts.
One day, a couple of years ago, i was heading out of Glasgow Central Train Station (front entrance) and Nicola was heading into the station, on her own.
At first i wasn’t sure it was her passing me – i was taken aback she was on her own and that threw me.
She had passed me when i turned and said out loud ‘Nicola Sturgeon’. She turned around smiling at my puzzled and confused coupon and nodded.
I took a couple of steps back in her direction, put out my hand, smiled proudly as i shook her hand then i turned and walked off to let her get on with her day, without saying another word.
I spent the rest of the day telling everyone and anyone who would listen – in between thinking how wrong it was for her to be walking around without some sort of protective escort.
I somehow can’t imagine Skeletor, Darling, Brown or Alexander walking around Glasgow – or any other part of Scotland for that matter – without a team around them, can you.
🙂
@Kenny 5,10pm, 5.13pm
@Marcia 5.06pm
Well done you! What have I started? . . . Carry on the good work everyone.
Murphy the Undertaker throws his hat in the ring.
Labour’s inner workings for all to see.
I never doubted our Nichola. Deputy to the master statesman Alex Salmond , was a worthy apprenticeship and the lady knows her stuff.
We are lucky to have her. Imagine her on the other side ? And i notice the word play on the MSM regarding her “coronation” and i love it. She scares the shit out of them.
The opposition, laughingly mocking her, can’t get anyone worth a sook to lead them. They are falling apart while the SNP bandwagon goes on and on and on….
And the Scotsman , in my opinion , one of the crappiest rags and by a country mile the most vile commenters , is dieing .
HHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
🙂
Does it get any better..?
Well yes it does , everyday now makes No voters squirm.
Lord Foulkes of Cummnock said he might be tempted to vote Yes at next Referendum.
Today’s House of Lords debates – Wednesday 29 October 2014
6.40pm
“No one supported the status quo in the referendum. I did not hear anyone argue in favour of that. Unless we heed the call and realise the disaster that has been avoided, we will find ourselves facing another referendum.”
“but if we do face that, and if there have been no changes at the United Kingdom level, even I would be tempted to vote Yes in that referendum.”
@James123
Of course, so why the fuck doesn’t some individual, organisation or business make it happen! There is a massive gap in the market just waiting there to be filled.
No idea, beats me. It would be a very good addition and boost to the cause. We also need independence supporting think tanks. I know a lot of people think tanks are boring, but you just need to see the amount the times the MSM went to the IFS or their Scottish branch (forgot what it is called), during the referendum campaign. We have no alternative think tanks. There is Common Weal, but that is just getting established.
You would think Cameron would have grabbed the suggestion, Scotland votes YES the UK stays in, with both hands. A way of England staying in but voting NO. Or will a VOW be made they will really be leaving by voting YES. Or something. London Banks make massive profits with currency exchange. Ie Commission changing £ to Euros. Euros to £
There is no way the UK can leave the EU without major disruption. A larger amount of people on a larger scale. 62Million in the UK. 500Million People in EU. More so than Scotland (5Million), becoming Independent. The ripples would be fewer, if not at all.
@ Foulkes might vote YES (aye might vote YES?) as long as Labour/UnionistS were in power in Holyrood forever, as was intended, and he can remain a ‘Lordy’ forever. He would bite the hand that feed, and get thrown out of the Party.
Next Foulkes will be declaring he might vote SNP or YES in secret, as long as he remains a ‘Lordy’. Maybe he does.
Fifi Foulkes the racist old women, who always got first comment on the anglo Scotsman. Bad career move for some ambitious wee politicians. ‘Too wee, too stupid’.
By the time they are finished, Westminster/Unionists will be wishing they had supported ‘Independence for Scotland’. It would have been easier, despite the revenues they will lose.
Cameron needs Scottish YES EU votes to stay in the EU.
@gillie
Lord Birt at House of Lords 29/10/14
Following Mr Robinson’s report of that conference, there was a demonstration against the BBC and its political editor, as the noble Lord, Lord McFall, mentioned. Some thousands of yes supporters gathered outside the headquarters of BBC Scotland, an intimidating and frightening experience for BBC staff. The First Minister was, however, to describe this demonstration as “joyous and peaceful”. Nick Robinson could only continue to report the final stages of the campaign with a bodyguard at his side. 6.53pm
I’m dubious about this “scot2.scot” thing. What purpose will it serve? What sort of track record has its promoter, that we should trust him to oversee the gerrymandering of the country?
I think sometimes we’re all a bit to quick to rush in and endorse any new independence-supporting project, just because it’s “on our side”. I’ve done it myself, a couple of times.
A wee bit of caution might be in order here. The political parties and their constituency associations will be working on this. They have the experience of fighting elections, because it’s what they do. I’m not sure how kindly any of the convenors or organisers will take to a self-appointed Facebook group trying to take over their role.
Stuart Farquhar works at the scotsman and has the cheek to think that we should be ashamed.What a dick.
I don’t care if he voted yes.
He should have voted with his feet.
I’m not unsympathetic to the ordinary workers in the non-political sections, or who do the non-journalism jobs. But people who have the misfortune to work for failing companies lose their jobs all the time. We can’t all spend our money on products we don’t want and actively dislike simply to cushion them from reality.
Farquhar also doesn’t seem to understand the difference between not paying for journalism we detest, and the calls to boycott the likes of Asda.
I’m not really into boycotting shops – it’s wearing, always trying to remember who to avoid, and maybe not purchasing something you actually want or need. If I did buy something from Asda (it’s not actually a shop I’ve ever set foot in), I would be buying a product I wanted. I’d have my packet of sausages or whatever. I might choose to do that, rather than endanger a shop assistant’s job.
Newspapers are something else. There seems to be a suggestion that independence supporters should spend their money buying a product that they don’t want and indeed actively despise, simply to support someone’s job. Well that isn’t going to happen, any more than I’d buy a brand of sausages I hated because the sausage factory might go out of business.
Independence supporters are sitting around with money in their pockets, actively wanting to buy an independence-supporting daily paper. The Scotsman hates us so much it would rather go to the wall than take our money. That’s the reality.
It’s the bosses who have taken the decision not to supply the sector of the market that’s crying out to be supplied that Farquhar and his colleagues should be blaming. Not the people who don’t want the product.
Honestly, whenever I see those effing Tories, I just want to …to …to give them a good kicking.
There. Said it.
I am an evil cybernat.
Heedtracker says at 3.49pm: If ANAS is not stretched too much? Lol. Well I’ll be buggered. Replace the second A with an U and that’s the position he takes regarding orders from London on what to do next!
Stephen.
If Scotland votes to stay in the EU, but is taken out because the rump UK votes no, where does that leave the ‘settled will of the Scottish people’?
Robert Peffers is in a right muddle. He writes, “with the parliament sovereign. … but at no time did the people of Scotland cede their sovereignty to the new joint Parliament.”
Anyway the people of Scotland voted 55/45 to stay in Britain. Now we have to achieve independence from the capitalist cartel that the SNP loves so much – the EU.
Still trolling during work hours, Will? When are you going to answer my question? Robert Peffers has more brains in his little finger than you do in your whole body, plus he actually has a spine.
@Robert Peffers:
I have already answered elsewhere here, so I won’t repeat myself. Yet:
I also have sympathy for those on zero hours contracts or those paid below the legal limits.
Then you should also feel sympathy for those who will end up on the dole, and who won’t be able to find a new job except maybe one of those you name…
The Treaty of Union created a new country. Over the centuries, the British people have become a united body, as shown by our all-Britain trade unions and other all-Britain bodies. In the referendum, most Scottish people voted to endorse that reality, and rejected the alternative view that there is some separate sovereign Scottish nation.