A narrow escape
Posted on
November 20, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We’re busy watching the mostly-inspiring equal marriage debate at the moment (Ruth Davidson’s speech was especially good), so in the absence of a more substantial post here’s our Unionist Of The Day – the failed Labour candidate, and still a Labour councillor, for Aberdeen Donside, Willie Young.
Looks like you dodged a bullet there, Aberdeen. The rest of you we’re not even going to talk to any further, because you’re plainly not real.
First I’m a virus, now I’m not a real Scot !
Anyone know The Samaritans phone number ?
Unfortunately, my best friend from school days is in Aberdeen now, or Milltimber to be precise, and she thinks Independence is a ‘bad idea’. I know she doesn’t like Big Alex, but I think she’s taking her loyalty to the Labour Party to extremes here. One day I’ll raise the subject, but not like last time when I was due to be spending the night at her place. Hubby, from the Black Isle, was silent, so I may have an ally.
This guy better not say that to Real Scot,s in person.
He would get a slap in the mush for his idiotic outburst.
Explosive stuff now on Channel 4 news regarding American spying inUK citizens thanks to Tony Blair giving them free reign.
Now wonder what went on over Megrahi and now the Independence debate.
the only thing worse than a real Scot is a proud one or possibly a real proud Scot
Brotyboy,tell her you don’t like Big Alex or the SNP either and that’s why you’re voting Yes. So you can vote them out at the first Scottish GE and vote Labour in. Big Alex will probably retire after independence anyway. Life’s work done and all that.
Apparently you have to be a proud and patriotic Scot as well to be a Unionist too. Fortunately I am neither.
Real Frenchmen vote to be governed by Germany.
Training Day says:
Real Frenchmen vote to be governed by Germany.
Bang on. Neatly summed up.
Linda’s back, considering that the uk government have been spying on Scottish nationalists for years, this didn’t surprise me. It is disconcerting hearing your phone conversation playing back after your mate has hung up, or getting a load of mail delivered, all opened,
Happened to my family a lot in the seventies.
The reason we are voting in the Referendum now is that Scotland and England have not worked together for at least the last 40 years.
You shat on us, we’re taking our baw back.
link to en.wikipedia.org
‘No real Scot‘ is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim (“no Scot would do such a thing”), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule (“no real Scot would do such a thing”).
A simple rendition of the fallacy:
Unionist: “No Scot supports independence.”
Independence supporter: “I am Scottish and I support independence.”
Unionist: “Then you are not a real Scot.”
completely O/T and apologies
Is anyone else having problems logging into Newsnet Scotland?
I’m unable to log in and have not been able to log in , since a couple of weeks ago.
I now get a screen message stating (in red) that my log in is denied and either I’m blocked or have not activated, Did I not get an activation e-mail.
Well I have not seen any e-mail from Newsnet and have been a ‘subscriber’ since way back. So this is a complete mystery . I have contacted them a couple of times, through their contact page, but have not received any response what so ever.
Needless to say I’m completely peeved at this and cant say that I’m that impressed. Now it could be an error or oversight on their part, I cant tell and they just don’t bother responding to my contact messages.
Anyone have an idea of what’s going on?
I’m getting it fine. Not logged in or anything.
Edward
You probably said something innocuous on a comment and they have banned you,
Happened to me after I mused that Mathieson the leader of Glasgow Council had swallowed the evidence and that is why the police were not pressing charges.
I met somebody from them at the Anti beeb march in Glasgow and they put me back on but its all moderated, sometimes they publish others they don’t.
Here’s another BT launch, this time in Eastwood.
The line-up is:
Blair McDougall (chair)
Jim Murphy MP
Jackson Carlaw MSP
George Lyon MEP
Full details, and a warm invitation, here:
link to bettertogether.net
@Edward.
Join the club. You probably said something not on message. 🙂
You can call me what you want…..I’m still voting Yes!
Jingly Jangly
That’s the thing that has me puzzled as I’m well aware of house rules. But I haven’t actually said anything innocuous .
My very last comment was on November 6th on the article ‘Shipbuilding under threat if Scots vote yes claims BBC Scotland reporter’. Again didn’t say anything innocuous at all.
But the thing is, they should have at least the decency to respond to by requests for advise that I left on their contact page, which, as far as I can see, have been ignored. So if they cant be bothered to check into it and say exactly what’s going on, then I cant be bothered to support them in future
Always nice to see the no true Scotsman fallacy brought out. Instant fail for anyone that uses it.
Bungalow Bill Young must have missed out on a UK government funded top floor.
@Juteman – Any comment I’ve made has been well with their ‘message’ 🙂
I know how touchy they can get , as I’ve seen other people get the ‘ruler on the back of the hand’ treatment
Very first thing the Labour/Tory coalition Councillors did after taking control of Aberdeen City in 2012 was vote for a 5% pay rise for themselves.
Don’t think they’ve done much since…
I was watching the largely very good debate on the equal marriage bill and then missed the vote. Popped out for two seconds (ish) and came back to Paul Martin moaning about next Tuesday’s launch.
What was the vote result?
@Training Day
I agree, that’s why the Norwegians are champing at the bit to be ruled by Sweden so that they can hand over all their wealth to them and get sweeties back in return.
I hear that millions of Australians, Indians and Americans are also agitating to be brought back under London rule…
Jeez, what is it with the Labour Party and self-loathing.
One of the joys of being a Yes supporter is that you never have to worry about whether you are a real Scot or not. Your home is where your heart is.
The Better Together tagline on their site starts of – “the patriotic……” which is really sad and confusing.
They talk as if nationalism is a virus and they are agents of British Nationalism, a much more sinister and nasty form of nationalism- just ask anybody invaded by said entity in the last 300 years.
The use of words belies the panic they have in their breeks. Trying to command the language of national identity.i.e. real scots & patriots. They don’t get it do they? The modern drive for Scottish independence is not based on nationalism but a desire to rest control from corrupt parliamentarians in neoliberal dominated Westminster and build a better society for all its citizens
I will certainly be voting YES, so I am only a Scot, yes thats right I am only a SCOT or am I ? I am not (a Proud, or London or Real) Scot it seems, so instead I am going to claim the title of Honourable Scot.
I am honoured to be able to stand up for the rights of my nation to chose independence.
I am honoured to be a husband & father to my family.
I am honoured to feel the need to do my work diligently and well.
And on Sep 18th 2014 I will be honoured to vote YES to achieve my countrys independence and help work towards it being a country that is “honourable” in both word and deed.
And that is an ambition that surely qualifies me as an “Honourable Scot”.
We need a cure to the self-hatred of so many Scots.
@Edward says:
completely O/T and apologiesIs anyone else having problems logging into Newsnet Scotland?
Just been there and no problems here have you tried just typing your username and pressed forgot password?
Edward, NNS put me on moderation ages ago and I stopped posting. I’m showing as not logged in and have shown like that for many months, but I have never been unable to read the articles. Sounds like a server glitch to me.
We need a cure to the self-hatred of so many Scots.
Actually, it’s a rather small bunch in fact, going by the census anyway. Most people in Scotland are simply Scottish. Not ‘proud’, not ‘real’, just Scottish as the Danish are Danish, the French are French.
With respect to the referendum, to quote prof Curtice:
…in so far as the independence debate is about identity, it is the intensity of people’s British identity that matters, not that of their Scottish identity.
Scottish identity is a near ubiquitous attachment that unites rather than divides most people in Scotland. It is how British they feel that divides them, and is reflected in different attitudes in the independence debate.
If I wanted to save the union, I’d not belittle / attack Scotland and its prospects under independence.
Rather, I’d present a clear, positive and forward looking plan for Scotland in the union. Otherwise, I’d lose.
Ian Brotherhood 7.47
Ask Jim murphy about his non appearance at Bedroom tax vote last week.
Labour’s excuse for 47 of their MPs not turning up to vote to repeal the Bedroom Tax at Westminster last week and thus let the Tories carry on by only 26 votes was that they were “paired” with Tory MPs .
However “pairing” does not apply to important Parliamentary business.
So there you have it, repealing the Bedroom Tax is not important business for Labour.
Certainly wasn’t important enough for Anas Sarwar who was giving a lecture in Pakistan (no doubt telling them that they should have stuck with India) or Jim Murphy who was attending a lunch at a vegetarian cafe in Glasgow.
Rev if you have time the comments from Aidan on Munguins last blog you will find very interesting.
link to archive.is
No real Scot would claim they are a real Scot. We are just Scots.
cynicalHighlander
Done that, pressed forgot password, just doesn’t work
O/T
Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership – update!
This is what I put to Angus MacDonald as he asked the question…
Question S4W-17176: Angus MacDonald, Falkirk East, Scottish National Party, Date Lodged: 13/09/2013
To ask the Scottish Government, in light of the potential impact on the Scottish economy, whether it will participate in the second round of talks on the EU-US Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership in Brussels in October 2013.
Answered by John Swinney (19/09/2013):
The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) taking place on 7 – 11 October 2013, is negotiated by EU Commission through the EU Trade Policy. The EU Commission has sole power to negotiate on behalf of all Member States through close co-operation with the Foreign Affairs (Trade) Council and European Parliament.
Scottish Government is maintaining close contact with the negotiations and ensuring that our views are fed into the UK Government Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, which leads the UK input into the council. The European Trade Commissioner, Karel De Gucht will be briefing an audience of business leaders about the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership at Gleneagles on
23 September prior to the second round of talks. The First Minister will meet the Commissioner to discuss the TTIP and will take part in the briefing, emphasising the importance to Scotland of this deal.
So basically we do not have autonomy in our representation here, we have to rely on some UK government department!
My issue here is that I think this is a disastrous piece of legislation for a young Scotland to get tied into.
It brings up issues of our entry or continued place in the EU – We need to re-negotiate.
I have emailed the SNP with this question but as yet after several days – Zilch feedback! – Not acceptable guys come back with something!
Conclusions –
1. We need to have autonomy in our input to all EU commissions.
2. This treaty allows mega companies to screw us over, not acceptable.
3. This is why we need the SSP and Greens and Wings to keep us straight on all negotiations especially regarding the EU SNP cannot be relied upon.
As I’ve said before, all these true Scot’s, blue Scot’s, red Scot’s, real Scot’s and patriotic Scot’s keep forgetting to mention to the electorate that they are also pretty “WEALTHY Scot’s” under this feudal Westminster system at the expense of the tax payer and will say and do anything to keep their snouts in the trough!
Just be a good Scot and vote yes for your fellow Scot’s and Scotland!
Daughter of Evil Reindeer – I fail to see your reasoning on this
Why do you see the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership a problem for a newly independent Scotland
Scotland would have autonomy after independence, its difficult to see how anything can happen before.
Can you also explain why you see this legislation as a licence for ‘mega companies’ to ‘screw us over’?
Speaking in Edinburgh today it seems like the Welsh First Minister reads from the same script as that of his Scottish Labour colleagues.
“I am a fierce supporter of our national rugby team. In short, I feel very patriotic about my country. I want the very best for my country.
“And I would say to Labour voters, you can be a patriotic Scot and still want to stay in the UK – because that’s what’s best for your country!”
link to archive.is
I`ll keep this short.
Willie Young is an arse; an arse verging on a nervous breakdown.
Mr Young leaves out the question of what English or Polish people living in Scotland are supposed to do. Are they allowed to be real and vote No? Or do they have to be proud as well? And what do you do if you are a patriotic, but not very proud French person in Scotland with existential concerns about reality? I really think Mr Young should broaden his advice….
Aye Little Willie the Younger – Him of Aberdeen intellecturati and incomprehensible TV soundbites, wasnt it a BBC reporter interviewing Little Willie that ran away into the River Dee shouting for his P45 during the recent by election coverage? [Mark McDonald won].
Oh yes we must have respect and give due diligence to a Councillor of such media reputation but when he reports on Twitter that his English language skills are lacking then one would wonder if he will last the course.
I generally do not do Twitter but was drawn with local interest to Wee Willies comments and I had to stop reading due to excessive rectal effusions. His not mine.
Hi Edward thanks for the feedback, have been trying to highlight this for a while…
link to theguardian.com
So that’s what a real proud Scot looks Like. I wondered right enough.
And the rest of us are…
Daughter of Evil Reindeer
Thanks for the link, have had a quick read and its truly shocking, unsurprisingly the Tories are keeping this one under the radar. Interesting that there hasn’t been much about it on the BBC.
But until we get through the referendum process, there is not much, as far as I can see, for Scotland to do. But we should keep an eye on it . It will be up to a future Scottish Government to deal with it, when negotiating membership. Scotland will have a bit of clout and support from other member states
A No vote is a vote for Britain. A YES vote is a vote for Scotland. And 300 years is as nothing when compared to the thousands of years this land and its various peoples existed independently. And neither is longevity of a marriage any kind of barometer as to its worth. We don’t need to stay together for the sake of the kids since they all left the nest long ago and have their own independence now. In any case, a shotgun marriage was never bound to last. As Robert Louis Stevenson wrote:
“There is nothing perhaps more puzzling (if one thing in sociology can be ever really be more unaccountable than another) than the great gulf that is set between England and Scotland-a gulf so easy in appearance, in reality so difficult to traverse. Here are two people almost identical in blood; pent up together on one small island, so that their intercourse (one would have thought) must be as close as that of prisoners who shared one cell at the Bastille; the same language and religion; and yet a few years of quarrelsome isolation- a mere forenoon’s tiff, as one may call it, in comparison with the great historical cycles- have so separated their thoughts and ways that not unions, not mutual dangers, nor steamers, nor railways, nor all the King’s horses and all the King’s men, seem able to obliterate the broad distinction.”
So, Britain or Scotland? British or Scottish? Time to choose.
@Daughter of Evil Reindeer
Yes that is a despicable piece of corporatism and needs to be blocked.
Shocking comments once again from labour, imagine if someone from the SNP had come out and said “Voting Yes is for real scots”, they’d be dragging it out for days on Newsnight etc.
It is terrible that we have such limited input into this, to me it is the main reason we must have Independence.
Plaid Cymru Leader Leanne Jones, is very much a supporter of Independence for Scotland and has said so many times, but Carwyn Jones, is treading a very careful path. This article link to archive.is gives quite a good explanation of the political background in Wales.
I’m a real proud Scot-(bit)German, born in England… At least I hope i’m real! Mirror reflections present and pinches hurt, but I guess it might all just be a dream. 🙂
You can see why Labour banned him from using Twitter during the Donside by-election, can’t you? The guy’s a complete embarrassment.
‘simple, real Scots go commando.
I was kinda hoping for or a SNP comeback on my comment here, but not forthcoming, sorry to troll but buggered off about lack of insight on this issue, annoyed and want feedback and discussion.
My next vote goes firmly to the SSP – Insight policies, totally bugger you SNP…
To the Daughter – vote Green!
@Paula Rose
Done!
How about a crowd funded survey of proud Norwegians asking them if they would like to go back to being ruled by Sweden?
Maybe a Norwegian newspaper would take it up. They have to be better than our own mob.
Daughter of Evil Reindeer.
You’ve emailed the SNP on this stuff have. My goodness and they haven’t emailed you back. It’s not as if they have anything on at the moment.
Edward says:
“Is anyone else having problems logging into Newsnet Scotland?”
I had a problem logging in too Edward. I contacted them through their contact page and asked them to reset my account. They didn’t tell me they had fixed it, but a couple of hours later I could log in ok.
I think they work on a shoestring and have few resources. Things may sometimes take a while.
@CR 10.09
Btw, it’s Leanne WOOD (not JONES – we have a few …hundred thousand of them here already!). But my response was that Carwyn’s sally up to ‘yr Hen Ogledd’ (The Old North in Welsh of olden times) is yet again: 1. Putting his nose in where he has no business to do so … and 2. Typical BritLab response, knowing that Indy next year for ALBA rings the deathknell for any BritLab chance of forming a Govt. at Westminster nearly ever again! I’d like to apologise for the intrusion of my fellow Cymro on your deliberations. The only time I’ll be up in ALBA is either to enjoy your nation with you (as my wife and I did 3 weeks ago) … or to celebrate it’s independence from England in September 2014!
Should we be expecting an equally round condemnation of this statement from Carmichael as we saw last week? Funnily enough, I’m not going to hold my breath!
And O/T – but it made me laugh. A friend posted a link from Equality Network about the Equal Marriage vote, and when I ‘liked’ it, it popped up along the bottom ‘Similar to Equality Network – Better Together’! 😮
@Dave McEwan Hill
Emailed them and accept they might be busy, however what I am asking about is important and deserves a reply… I am entitled to that surely… Rather than a cop out…
In fact…
Come back with some discussion regarding the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and the SNP’s take on it!
This is what I would like to see..
Awaiting your response.
Funny that he is parroting A darling MPs parody twitter account.
Check out @A_DarlingMP’s Tweet: link to twitter.com
@Daughter of Evil Reindeer
I’m with you on this. With TTIP, neo-liberalism is about to take it to the next level. The shadow this deal will cast will fall upon a newly independent Scotland and we will be locked in before we can get out. Better to be independent than not when it comes to dealing with the effects of this proposed system but our potential to become a different kind of country is likely to be significantly deformed by such a malign arrangement.
When you read Ken Clarke’s response to the article, you know Monbiot has nailed it.
@Tim Criced i Gymru 11.37
Sorry, don’t know why I typed Jones rather than Wood, must have been thinking of Carwen as he made me so cross. I completely agree with you on his intrusion into Scottish politics, but I did want to share some of the background of what is happening in Wales re the Scottish Independence debate, which is why I included the New Statesman link.
I would hate Scots to think that this man speaks for the Welsh as I am Welsh originally, though I have lived in Scotland for a long time and have only a limited understanding of the political scene there now and would hestate to speak with any authority. I do know that Leanne seems to be more popular than her predecessor, certainly with a number of people that I know.
I do hope you are able to come and celebrate Independence with us.
Thanks Aidan
We have posted before a about this. it is on a par with the other free trade agreements which throw whatever resources we have open to the corporate market and needs to be fought and just sorry that the SNP do not have a grasp on it!
This treaty like the the Central American Free Trade Agreement screws us over, ie everyone, low wages slave labour is this what you want… Get Lost…
Stacks of evidence come back on this one….
@ Dave McEwan Hill
If you think you can provide clarification on this issue then please do so…
it explains the Daily Record’s tag line…
davy says
“I will certainly be voting YES, so I am only a Scot, yes thats right I am only a SCOT or am I ? I am not (a Proud, or London or Real) Scot it seems, so instead I am going to claim the title of Honourable Scot.
I am honoured to be able to stand up for the rights of my nation to chose independence.I am honoured to be a husband & father to my family.I am honoured to feel the need to do my work diligently and well. And on Sep 18th 2014 I will be honoured to vote YES to achieve my countrys independence and help work towards it being a country that is “honourable” in both word and deed. And that is an ambition that surely qualifies me as an “Honourable Scot”.
Right that’s it that’s the one,
print that and get it on every billboard,
before I read this I felt ,
I am not proud and even after a yes vote may still not feel proud but when we’ve made this country what we all know what it can/should be THEN I’ll be proud and we can look the world straight in the eye as an equal and not a vassal state,
however, after reading your post Davy I felt something,
what was that that?
was that my chest swelling?
Do me a favour Davy,
that was a powerful emotional message and you should post it on every site you can think of,
I cant imagine anyone reading that and not being stirred by it,
where are the likes when you need them rev?
Mosstrooper says
“‘simple, real Scots go commando.”
Dont forget , eat porridge (with salt not sugar) which is what I’m doing right now
“Dont forget , eat porridge (with salt not sugar)”
I’ll put sugar on my porridge if I damn well like. Bloody porridge nazis.
I’ll be a proud Scot if my fellow countrymen and women vote Yes.
Until then, I reserve judgment.
Since we’re talking porridge, the point with salt, is it is added as you cook it, not once it is in the bowl.
As for sugar(!!), I have no idea.
Willie young can’t even get on with his own constituents or the rest of the Council. Holding on with one vote from a Green, now running the Council. Labour/Unionists et al refused a gift of£50million for the UTG Project which would have pedestrianised the City. Voted for by 45,000 -16,000 voted Labour. While refusing the £50million Gift,constantly complaining about the settlement Aberdeen CC received. The settlement decided by Labour dominated Cosla for years. Young et al comes up with a scheme to shut off Broad Street (causing even more traffic chaos) and for a contruction firm to build offices which the Council will lease back for thirty five years., but the Council couldn’t afford the UTG Project. Visitors can’t visit Aberdeen because there aren’t enough Hotels.
Labour/Unionists voted against the AWPR for thirty years. The SNP Scottish gov came up with the funding and funded the Olympic Sports Village. .
Willie Young also wants to put up Council tax. ACC the laughing stock of Aberdeen.
Daughter of evil reindeer
I agree with you re TTIP. The more real power is given away by governments to corporations the less room to change anything for the people is left. This is how creeping corporatism works, slowly, secretly and with complexity so under the radar of our (mostly complicit) media.
The poor soul forgot to mention “proud and patriotic”. Poor Aberdeen.
Porridge – add a small amount of salt whilst cooking. Put sugar and cream in the bottom of the bowl, pour on the porridge, stir well.