The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

A failure to communicate

Posted on March 22, 2016 by

From the Scotsman tonight:


As previously, we’re having quite a lot of trouble understanding the difference between “independence” (39%), and “the Scottish Parliament should make all the decisions for Scotland” (51%). We’re going to drop the SSAS a line and see if they’ll ask for us.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 22 03 16 23:43

    A failure to communicate | Speymouth

  2. 23 03 16 06:30

    SNP wi’ Hert & Saul | A Wilderness of Peace

73 to “A failure to communicate”

  1. Bob Sinclair says:

    Looks like the ba’s on the slates for the Yoons. They can’t dress this up as anything other than rising indy support, no matter how hard they try.

  2. Sassenach says:

    Be interesting to see what the Scotsman readers make of this, BTL comments should give us all a laugh!

    SNP X 2 and it will be all over, I suspect.

  3. Macart says:

    Still hugely encouraging due to the source, but yeah bangs head off wall.

  4. JimmyMac says:

    Sounds like the answer you’re looking for is Federalism.

  5. jim watson says:

    Obviously this is wrong. I am sure the mail/express/bbc stated that support for Independence was falling…

  6. Dr Jim says:

    I’m not sure I understand those numbers 51% say we want to run everything but only 39% of us will vote for it

    They must have been asking some funny questions or I’ve become mentally irregular or…

    The Scotsman just talks shite and made it up

    Which one which one

  7. David says:

    Surely their independence poll is wrong. If there was a vote tommorow everyone knows the yes vote would be at least 45%. If the polling methodology is wrong, why do they not change it?

  8. Alun009 says:

    I don’t support breaking up the United Kingdom. I just think we should be two separate, independent states.

  9. David Mooney says:

    Maybe they are taking into account the rigged postal votes.

  10. muttley79 says:

    As previously, we’re having quite a lot of trouble understanding the difference between “independence” (39%), and “the Scottish Parliament should make all the decisions for Scotland” (51%). We’re going to drop the SSAS a line and see if they’ll ask for us.

    You have to laugh at the Scotsman, surely it would be much easier to just admit the truth no? I know they have been reduced to a disreputable unionist propaganda rag, but even so…. 😀 😀

  11. Aranciaca says:

    Seems straightforward: make all the decisions for Scotland – full fiscal autonomy with a cheque to Westminster to pay our contribution to the EU + defence + consular services, and the nuclear submarine base resited to Englandshire.

    Independence don’t put the cheque in the post.

  12. Auld Rock says:

    Some years ago my work brought me in comntact with market research people and they showed me just how easy it was to frame a question to get the answer you wanted. That’s why great care was taken to try and make the question as neutral as possible. As said elsewhere the yoons are messing their pants, LOL.

    Auld Rock

  13. Effijy says:

    99.9% of Scots think that the Scotsman Propaganda Pamphlet
    isn’t worth buying or reading.

    In Hootsman Land, this means a majority of 0.1% really love
    this type of garbage over reality.

  14. Auld Rock says:

    Whoops – forgot to add great care was taken over question in the Indy Ref.

    Auld Rock

  15. Foonurt says:

    Ah wull, if thoan yins sae suh. Cairtwheels doon yurr street.

    “Getting better all the time… .”

  16. Bootsy81 says:

    Stop me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the 15 year high for support for independence at least 45%?

    2014 was less than 15 years ago (unless I’m just waking up from a really long nap) and we know exactly where support was then. It’s up for debate if it’s moved much from that 45% mark but personally I have my doubts it’s slipped to 39%.

  17. Clootie says:

    …from a rag with sales equivalent to 0.5percent of the population

  18. Dan H says:

    Is that one of the surveys where they split the non-independence choice into devolution and full London rule?

    The difference in responses would then be more about the difference between a binary choice and a ternary choice question rather than something to do with the contents of those questions or their precise wording.

  19. allan dickie says:

    did they get Kez to do the arithmetic? would explain a lot.

  20. Sandy says:

    Noticed Keiza got on her bike today. Giving up already?

  21. Breeks says:

    I seem to remember Jim Murphy once said he supported the Union but wasn’t a Unionist.

    Bit like wanting rid of nuclear weapons right up until you decide just to keep them.

    I don’t care what Jim Murphy wants. It isn’t integrity, and once that penny drops, what he says and does simply doesn’t matter any more.

    I also don’t care what the Scotsman says, and for the same lack of fundamental integrity.

  22. call me dave says:

    I can’t hang around for too long… independence please.

    I sometimes have to think twice about buying green bananas 🙂

    Piste off!

    Off Piste

    Saw this on a left behind ‘Scottish Champion’ today in the cafe.
    Swinney in green tights! Made me smile.

  23. Foonurt says:

    Fuck me. Bootsy81 nae panic requiurrt. See thoan threed ah day urr twaw back, fur explanation.

  24. Sandy says:

    Just watched the three stoogies on Scotland 2016. Are they going to be re-elected? Oh,my god.

  25. geeo says:

    I also had a double take at 39% being a 15 year high!!

    Kind of a credibility killer !!

  26. Arbroath1320 says:

    Interesting CmD. 😉

    I clicked on the “think tank has found” link in the piece and guess what … I’m none the wiser! 😀

    I can only come to one conclusion the *ahem* think tank in question is actually the writer of the “Record View” so not so much a think tank more a numpty tank! 😀

  27. Ruby says:

    ‘Tomorrow we’ll be publishing findings from the Scottish Social Attitudes survey on support for independence and how Scotland should be run.’

    The Scotsman seem to have been in a rush to publish their interpretation of the result of this survey. I wonder why.

    They have the headline

    ‘Most Scots back Holyrood ‘to make all decisions for Scotland’

    It’s not too bad a headline but it will be interesting to see what ScotCen publish tomorrow.

  28. Kenny says:

    Support for indy at 39%? Aye, richt!

    And now in 2016 at a 15-year high! Except for 2015 and 2014, of course!

    Maybe the 15-year high is the fifteen years from 1400 to 1415? When Scotland WAS independendent, and there was a great clamour to enter a union with our favourite southern neighbour and eternal ally….

    …. France!

  29. Ruby says:

    I’m confused now because ScotCen are saying:

    ‘We were on @BBCRadioScot yesterday explaining findings from our Scottish Social Attitudes survey.’

    Listen again:


  30. HandandShrimp says:

    So close to reporting it correctly just that wee comfort blanket at the end to compare apples with pears.


  31. heedtracker says:

    Reaching back via WoS links-

    “There’s clearly a serious democratic disconnect here. What to do?

    Scots clearly want independence, as long as it isn’t called that. So what’s the word or phrase that doesn’t scare them off, and which can be answered “Yes”? (As it’d be a pain to have to change the YesScotland campaign’s name now.)

    Which ones though. Gordon Brown, James T Murphy, well all SLab seemed to have been able to terrify the NO into the worst off and BBC led Project Fear did the same to the richest Scots. The Vow’s a huge con, ongoing UK media black out of Scotland and UK’s third party, relentless monstering of anything Scotland by Pacific Quay, could all work but its a funny way for one country to keep control of another.

  32. yesindyref2 says:

    So if I have this right, that 51% figure is a 10 point increase, the 39% figures is a 10 point increase, so there seems to be a – 10 point increase.

    YES in 2014 was 45%, so does that mean it’s now officially 10 points higher at 55%?

    I’ll see your 10 points and raise it – oh, no need, Better Together folded!

  33. Grouse Beater says:

    51% of people think the Scotsman is a great newspaper. 39% of people actually buy it.

  34. crazycat says:

    39% is a fifteen-year high for the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey, which has only been going for 15 years.

    See here:

  35. Ruby says:

    geeo says:
    22 March, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    I also had a double take at 39% being a 15 year high!!

    Kind of a credibility killer !!

    Ruby replies

    Do you think they mean it’s the highest score in 15 years of ScotCen surveys?

    It’s a pity newspapers don’t make things clearer! The Scotsman’s headline could just as easily be

    Support for Independence increases by 8%

  36. Holebender says:

    May I suggest that the question in Indyref2 should read “Should the Scottish Parliament make all decisions for Scotland?

    We’ll walk it!

  37. Brian McHugh says:

    call me dave @ 10:45, They got me at “The highly respected IFS”…

    ..OFS LOL 🙂

  38. bookie from hell says:


    Jim Murphy woos Yes voters by insisting ‘I’m no Unionist’

    “We start on the basis that I’ve never been a Unionist. I’ve never been a Unionist – it’s not my political tradition. As a family of Irish Catholic immigrants, we’re not Unionists. I grew up in a family of trade unionists but not political unionists,” the East Renfrewshire MP said.

    Jim taking the 1707 pills

  39. Chic McGregor says:

    @bookie from hell

    Sounds a bit like “Some of my best friends are unionists.”

  40. bugsbunny says:

    Somewhere in a parallel universe Scotland has less than 23 hours left inside this stinking Union.

    Thank you Proud Scots But(t)s for nothing.


  41. Dr Jim says:

    When you look up the definition of the word Independence
    Home Rule is right there at the top

    During the Referendum several of the Opposition including Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown both stipulated as fact that’s what we were being promised Alistair Darling (as near to)

    We don’t have that, in fact what we have is (as far away as)
    I don’t call percents of things (as near to)Home Rule I call that percents of things

    So maybe we should be fighting the next Referendum on

    Do you agree that Scotland should have Home Rule Yes or No

    I fancy we’d win that, it’s a bit more difficult to turn that option down even for Yoons who seem to have difficulty with some words that mean the same thing

  42. defo says:

    Apples and pears indeed. And still, some people will fail to taste the difference.
    Spin is all they have left.

    We only need one in ten referendum No’s converting, to get over the line next time. One in five would be irrefutable.

    I can almost taste it now. The stars are aligning.

  43. call me dave says:

    Queenie ready to assent and a photie of Mundell (warning).
    What’s not to like…Oh aye! The Scotland Bill.

  44. ScotsCanuck says:

    … as a howler that’s got to be up there with Ian Gray’s “so the SNP want to set up an oil fund … well, where’s the money coming from ?”

    After reading the Hootsmon article, the vision of John Swinney mockingly banging his head against the table appeared before my eyes !!

  45. Iain says:

    The death throws of the Scotsman continue.

  46. Janet says:

    Meanwhile down south, support for Brexit rises! This is going to get interesting, folks!

  47. mealer says:

    I think this survey shows a nation in flux.In transition.The Devomaxers are still there.They want the Scottish Parliament to have all the powers but they don’t want to be isolated from the rUK.Thats what I want too.Its called independence.They just don’t quite want to commit to that.Yet.

  48. Ken500 says:

    Westminster are taking £Billions from Scotland with policies the majority in Scotland do not support. They sanctioning and starving people to death, worldwide. They are, lying cheating killers. Major called them ‘bastards’. He should know he was one of them. They are cruel, coarse, greedy cheating liars. They will do anything to embezzle £Billions of public money to line their friends and associates pockets.

    Scotland needs rid of these devious liars to make Scotland a secure, happy more equal place. Vote for Independence.They cheated and lied to Scotland.

    Westminster are taking £13Billion out of Scotland a year on policies the majority do not support. The irony of spending it on Faslane. City deals etc. for publicity. Total hypocrisy and lies.The majority are not fooled. Their illegal bombing raids, a total waste of public money, are making people less safe.

  49. Vronsky says:

    The strange discrepancy is the familiar effect – a majority support independence, so long as you don’t call it that.

  50. Bob Mack says:

    Looking at social media it becomes apparent that the English public think the UK is awash with terrorists. I firmly believe that BREXIT will now win. Fear and xenophobia is taking over.

  51. galamcennalath says:

    mealer says:

    “I think this survey shows a nation in flux.In transition.The Devomaxers are still there.”

    They are indeed. Large numbers still hold out hope for DevoMax and it is their preferred option.

    Personally, I feel there is enough evidence now that WM will never contemplate anything like DevoMax. It was more or less promised and what did the deliver? DevoSmithLite, DevoNotMuch.

    Scotland has been give just enough powers to spread the pain of austerity, not enough to plot a different course.

    IndyRef1 was probably always going to fail because it was a two option vote with three available options! WM changed the first option from status quo to DevoMax as campaigning proceeded. They lied. They always lie.

    We have to be given devolution as we stand cap in hand. However, we can take Indy anytime a majority realise that is the only viable option for Scotland.

    Perhaps it will come when the DevoMaxers realise their horse is dead and no longer in the race.

  52. Sassenach says:

    Am I losing my mind??

    Last night on Scotland 2016, I found little reason to throw things at the TV – there was practically no SNPBaaad from Shelley.

    It was good to get Swinney on his own (and allowed to speak with little interruption), followed by the three stooges on one screen (hilarious!).

    What happened? Is the BBC lulling us into a false sense of security? Beware.

  53. Macart says:

    Another take on the figures.

  54. galamcennalath says:

    Me @ 7:51

    Just noticed the Rev tweeted a table from attitude surveys…

    DevoBuggerAll has plummeted from 27% to 12% which highlights how out of tune the Unionists and WM are by delivering DevoSmithLite at this late stage in the game.

    DevoMax has held steady at around 30%. Worryingly, for me. I am 100% convinced it will never be delivered by WM. It is a lost cause, IMO.

    While “all decisions”, Indy, soars from 28% to 51%.

    The movement has been from DevoBuggerAll to Indy. The BIG dividing line in Scotland is therefore actually now between Indy and DevoMax. Only tiny groups want less on no powers.

    By aligning with the ‘tiny groups’, WM is utterly and completely out of tune with Scottish opinion. That is good news!

  55. Davo says:

    The Daily Express has these 2 headline links on its website today:

    1. Scottish Survey shows 58% of voters want to stay in UK.
    2. Nicola Sturgeon has been accused of misleading the public.

    Black pot and kettle, I think.

  56. Foonurt says:

    Aye Murphy, ett thoan ithurr enn ah yoan blackhole, yurr unionist urr awe strung oot.

  57. Clydebuilt says:

    Is this another example of an article that the Hootsman or Herald puts out on the Internet (seen by a limited bunch of Anoraks) BUT would never be seen in the print edition read by the general population ……. They’re just trying to increase their site traffic……

  58. Valerie says:

    Good link @Nana to Stewart McDonald’s piece on the last weeks japes at WM. As he says, the winner is Boris, and he hasn’t lifted a finger as yet.

    Boris is in front of a Committee on EU membership just now. The Chair is Andrew Tyrie, a rebel Tory, and he isn’t letting Boris away with any of his garbage.

    Unfortunately, so many love Boris, and his ridicule of the EU.

  59. Clydebuilt says:

    Sassenach @ 8.07am Is it the BBC trying to get their audience back…….. They destroyed a lot of “blind faith” with their propaganda exercise during the Dundee Question Time…… I’ve noticed a reduction in the bias since then ….. Eg. SNP rep. On during peak audience time (5 to 6 pm) on Radio Scotland with little interruption….

  60. Ruby says:

    Clydebuilt says:
    23 March, 2016 at 9:49 am

    Is this another example of an article that the Hootsman or Herald puts out on the Internet (seen by a limited bunch of Anoraks) BUT would never be seen in the print edition read by the general population ……. They’re just trying to increase their site traffic……

    Ruby replies

    The article in The Scotsman was just put online at 9.30 last night you may see it on the front page of tomorrow’s Scotsman.

    ‘Most Scots back Holyrood ‘to make all decisions for Scotland’

    The headline is a bit confusing! Were the people born on the otherside of the dotted line on a map not included in the survey?

  61. Ruby says:

    Someone posted a link to a John Pilger article but I can’t find it now. Thanks for link I read the article. The part that stood out for me was the following:

    ‘I made a film called The War You Don’t See, in which I interviewed distinguished journalists in America and Britain: reporters such as Dan Rather of CBS, Rageh Omar of the BBC, David Rose of the Observer.

    All of them said that had journalists and broadcasters done their job and questioned the propaganda that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction; had the lies of George W. Bush and Tony Blair not been amplified and echoed by journalists, the 2003 invasion of Iraq might not have happened, and hundreds of thousands of men, women and children would be alive today.’

  62. Ruby says:

    The Scotsman have another article today with the healine

    ‘Social attitudes survey shows rise in Scottish independence support’

    The Scotsman’s resident UniTrolls are not happy they are even turning on The Scotsman calling it nationalist socialist rag ! 🙂

    ‘39%!!!! And this apologist for a nationalist socialist rag tries to claim support is going up?!!?’

  63. Nana says:


    If memory serves I posted an article on Sunday, don’t have time right now to search. You should be able find it here…

  64. Nana says:

    @Ruby forgot to add link to ‘The war you don’t see’

  65. Henry says:

    The reported 39% was in response to a 3-option question. In which Devomax also featured. – unlike the referendum which was a 2-option choice. Therefore it is entirely wrong to compare the referendum figures….. In fact it is misleading, and dishonest to quote the two numbers together.

  66. Ruby says:

    Thanks Nana.

    I’ll watch the video this evening or perhaps I’ll leave it until tomorrow morning so that I don’t go to bed really angry!

  67. Nana says:


    Boris is a dangerous balloon.

    Meant to add this link earlier.

    Murdo Fraser says Scotland would be foolish to miss out on fracking.

  68. Nana says:

    @Ruby here’s another article and when you have a chance search google for Gladio [not the Wikipedia] I think there was a bbc docu about it.

  69. It might take some time but most people will eventually realise that devo max is an inexorable process than only stops at independence. It is not a stepping stone but grudging concession of extra powers to impede progress to an independent Scottish state.

    There comes point in this tortured process when it becomes obvious that any more slicing of the sausage just introduces more and more complications that cannot be sensibly accommodated in a unitary state position and that independence is the logical and sensible condition,.

    We may be at that point now. The significant positions have changed. When we entered the Referendum campaign around 33% were for independence, around 50% were opposed and the rest weren’t sure. This is reversed. We now have around 50% for independence, 33% against and the rest not sure.

    We have to get onto campaigning strongly for our new independent country as soon as possible before the fire goes out.

  70. Iain More says:

    It would be hilarious if the Yoons stopped buying that rag as well now!

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top