Wait, what?
Below is a Daily Record story about lots of people giving money to “Better Together” (although confusingly, apparently it’s for an “election” rather than a referendum), accompanied by a large picture of handsome “Trainspotting” star Kevin McKidd.
One might infer, not unreasonably, from the headline and picture that Mr McKidd was one of the No campaign’s “big-hitters”. There’s nothing at all in the article’s text which would dissuade readers from that view.
But hang on – do they mean THIS Kevin McKidd?
Crikey, what a mix-up! Interestingly, in the print edition there’s no mistake about which side the actor supports – he’s pictured alongside other Yes backers like Sean Connery, Brian Cox and Chris and Colin Weir. So it’s intriguing that nobody seems to have told the Record’s online edition, which will survive long after the parchment version is lining budgie cages and cat-litter trays. It’s quite the mystery.
He doesn’t even feature in the Article, not once! Just his picture, no doubt it will be explained away as an ‘honest mistake’
Aye, I knew all about McKidd’s support for independence, and even I thought at first that they must be trying to say he was a contributor to the No campaign.
These are the sort of devious lying-without-lying tricks the media pull on the public to try and misinform them. It’s disgraceful.
I notice CJ Sansom, big Bitter Together contributor, depicted the SNP as Nazi collaboraters in one of his novels. oh dear… some of these people really are morally redundant, and really not very creative in their delusion.
Conundrum – do you trust the Daily Record or BBC’s Glen Campbell.
Hobson’s choice?
I note that the Daily Record is not allowing comments on this piece of brazen dishonesty. Wonder why?
Someone with Twitter – doug Daniel or wings perhaps, might want to let him know that his picture is being used in the Daily Record article without clearly stating he isn’t funding either campaign. He certainly isn’t supporting the ‘No’ campaign that the article headline relates to.
https://twitter.com/TheRealKMcKidd
Many EU representatives have already been caught out with media manipulation.
I thought it was only actors , musicians and poets who backed the yes campaign
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18204781
unlike just the ordinary folk who support no.
All the latest from the MSM smacks of desperation they must have got their hands on some real poll results.
I note also that the article twice refers to the referendum as an election. Dishonesty and ignorance.
Why was the big Tory donor with his generous donation of tainted money to BT not shown? Is he too ugly? Perhaps, like many Tory donors, he prefers to remain in the shadows. This type of media deception only works once. When people find out (and eventually they do), the perpetrators are never trusted again. MSM is playing a very dangerous game. They have already given up on the 30-40% of scots who have already decided to vote yes. This is all about deceiving the undecideds and soft no’s. They are hoping that it will achieve a No vote in 2014, but have no idea at all what they will do if the Scottish people fall for it. Business as usual? Well, they can try, but somehow I don’t think things will ever be the same, whatever happens next year.
I think everybody knows that big bent businessmen will make up the major part of the Better Together donations list and if they raise more money than the YES campaign it will do the YES campaign no harm at all.
“I note also that the article twice refers to the referendum as an election. Dishonesty and ignorance.”
Ooh, good catch. Edited in.
Poll results printed in Herald a bit disappointing – where is SS when I need him to cheer me up!
I note that the REV has already tweeted Kevin McKidd – please remember that as he lives in California, its still rather early in the morning as they are about six hours behind us time wise.
@Doug you are spot on. This is exactly the tactics of Better Together. Lie without lying. Suggest and mislead. It could be claimed this was only the bias media however the very leaflet which popped through doors all across Scotland offered nothing but the same surmise and suggestion.
This of course accompanies the ‘too many unanswered questions’ slogan they have adopted to counter any answers they receive. They quite literally would argue with a mathematician on the unanswered answered value of 2000 + 14 saying it raises more questions than it answers.
The fact that this Ian Taylor and his company Vitol have such a dark non-secretive history of mass tax avoidance, grand larceny, Serb warlords, Saddam, Middle East rebels and big Tory donations, that not one journalist in a Scottish newspaper is willing to investigate or report on such gift of a story. It proves that there is a consensus between rival newspapers that nothing other than trivial points will harm the Better Together campaign in Scotland.
@Bill Mclean -“Poll results printed in Herald a bit disappointing – where is SS when I need him to cheer me up!” Agreed Bill, anyone got any thoughts?
Hi AdrianB! California is actually 8 hours behind us, so it’s only about quarter to four there. Sorry for being a pedant! Slainte! SAOR ALBA!
I’ve just had the Telegraph on the phone asking me if I would like to subscribe to their new online setup.
I politely informed them that I do not pay any money to any newspaper due to their anti independence editorial attitudes and that I found Alan Cochrane to be particularly offensive.
The poor girl sounded rather surprised and a little crestfallen 🙂
Herald poll was by telephone, does that make any difference?
“I’ve just had the Telegraph on the phone asking me if I would like to subscribe to their new online setup.”
It’s a bit remiss of us not to have pondered on whether the Telegraph disappearing behind a paywall will be a boon to the Yes camp, as it’s by far the most prolifically anti-independence of the English-based papers. It’s on the to-do list now.
I should have mentioned to the Telegraph that I had slipped a few quid in the direction of WoS to offset the democratic deficit!
Bad shout DR – you really want to mess with someone who can square up to proper werewolves?
Is it £2m or £1,118,451 that they’ve go, realise Darling et al are a bit iffy when come to figures or MSM just picking random figures
“They are hoping that it will achieve a No vote in 2014, but have no idea at all what they will do if the Scottish people fall for it. Business as usual? Well, they can try, but somehow I don’t think things will ever be the same, whatever happens next year.”
Quite. If people don’t wake up and see they’re being lied to before the referendum, they certainly will afterwards. And around a third to a half of the people in Scotland will already be angry beyond belief by then and have a fairly burning hatred for the UK and its government and media. Not to mention the anti-Scottish sentiment that will have been whipped up south of the border, and the punishment that will ensure from all fronts.
I’m not quite sure what the Scottish establishment thinks will happen after a no vote, or quite what they hope to gain beyond keeping our oil and resources flowing to London. And for this level of vitriol and dirt, that must be one huge amount of resources.
14 Apr 2011:
David Cameron has criticised Mr Blair’s government for conducting “dodgy deals in the desert” after Gaddafi regime used air attacks and tanks in attempts to crush rebels.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8449111/Libya-Tony-Blair-defends-deal-in-the-desert-with-Colonel-Gaddafi.html
2008:
A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed between National Oil Corporation, Libya and the Vitol Group to build storage tanks in Ras Lanuf. The signing took place in Tripoli on Monday, 9th June 2008 between Dr Shokri Ghanem, Chairman of NOC and Mr Ian Taylor, President of Vitol.
http://vitol-oil.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/oil.html
dcanmore.
More importantly, Ian Taylor, the £500,000 largest donor to the Bitter Non-Men is a convicted criminal. “… Vitol’s Chief Executive Ian Taylor pleaded guilty to first degree grand larceny after paying $13 million in ‘secret kickbacks’ to the Iraqi government in exchange for oil under the United Nations’ oil-for-food program. They were fined a total of $17.5 million ($13 million in restitution to the Development Fund for Iraq)…”
And as well as being a convicted criminal he ‘works’ in the City of London, is a pretendy Scotsman who has hardly lived in Scotland and has no vote. So this is the type of person the BITTER NO-MEN go crawling to for money.
@ pictishbeastie,
Thanks for the amendment, six was a part answer to something else that I should have been doing whilst writing my last comment. California is approx 8 hour behind us time wise.
They quite literally would argue with a mathematician on the unanswered answered value of 2000 + 14 saying it raises more questions than it answers.
I think we need to know whether the two values are in the same units and I’m surprised that the SNP does not trust us enough to tell us that. Nor have we been told what base is being used. Are we just supposed to assume that these are decimal numbers? What numbering system will be used in a separate Scotland? How ‘independent’ can Scotland be if it uses the same numbers as England? The Yes campaign is once again pulling the wool over the eyes of Scottish voters. What we need are clear answers, not arithmetical abstractions.
I’m confused re referendum campaign funding, I’ve obviously missed something if NO have raised 2 million.
My understanding is as follows;
Electoral Commission recommended – 1.5 million per the two YES/NO campaigns and then, based on 2011 voting, a designated amount per political party and smaller amounts for others.
Has that changed?
The Scottish Referendum Bill is still on its way.
And personally I don’t see the point trying to limit any donations over £500 to those who can vote. Quite a different point to the backgrounds of donors however.
@ Dcanmore,
More importantly, Ian Taylor, the £500,000 largest donor to the Bitter Non-Men is a convicted criminal. “… Vitol’s Chief Executive Ian Taylor pleaded guilty to first degree grand larceny after paying $13 million in ‘secret kickbacks’ to the Iraqi government in exchange for oil under the United Nations’ oil-for-food program. They were fined a total of $17.5 million ($13 million in restitution to the Development Fund for Iraq)…”
Rather makes his donation to the ‘No’ camp rather cheap. Surly Scotland is worth more to him than this small token gesture? Then again, perhaps Scotland is not worth long term investment.
“And as well as being a convicted criminal he ‘works’ in the City of London,”
The only mildly positive case for the union I’ve ever come across was in Jon Ronson’s book on psychopaths. Research shows that Scotland has an unusually low number of psycopaths in its prison system. This is because psychopaths gravitate to where the power, wealth and big cities are, hence we lose most of ours to London. There are a proportionally quite high number of Scottish psychopaths in London prisons. Obviously this also goes for psychopaths other preferred professions, such as owners of big companies and politicians.
I remember thinking while reading it that could be a union dividend. Independence and having a fully sovereign parliament here, running a very rich country might bring a few of them back or encourage them to stay. Trouble with that arguments is, as long as we’re part of the UK, we’re still under the control of all the psychopaths in London anyway.
Our country is being polluted with Westminster corruption by carpetbagger snake oil salesmen MPs with their mouths stuffed with gold from their shady corporate partners. This is Better Together and the company they keep. Alistair Darling, like a good ‘socialist’ (to paraphrase Tinker, Tailor, Soldier … Spy?) will always go where the money is, even if it’s tainted Tory cash!
I am so tired of the papers now, I’m not even visiting them when they occasionally have a neutral story up.
Cath
“I’m not quite sure what the Scottish establishment thinks will happen after a no vote, or quite what they hope to gain beyond keeping our oil and resources flowing to London.”
They know exactly what will happen; nothing positive and that’s the point! They wish for the status quo or the clock wound back and to answer your second point; they will gain from Honours, Peerages, social advancement, invitations to Buck House for tea parties, and the knowledge that the dear old London Establishment thinks they are loyal and thoroughly good chaps and chapesses! It always been the way!
The sad thing is that not one of the Scottish establishment that supports a No vote is in any way a healthy individual. They are probably sociapaths, devoid of vision and utterly, utterly selfish individuals. It’s been a a truth, that in the decades since the Attlee administration, not one UK Government has come out with any big, nourishing ideas that would benefit society. In this environment, small numbers, in fact very small numbers of people stand to gain and that is waht we are seeing today. For the first time in 70 years, a political movement is advocating good positive change via the vehicle of constitutional reallignments. The benefits to all the inhabitants of the British Isles are so obvious, it’s painful, but bitter few will not allow it to happen, by hook or by crook!
“I’m confused re referendum campaign funding, I’ve obviously missed something if NO have raised 2 million.
My understanding is as follows;
Electoral Commission recommended – 1.5 million per the two YES/NO campaigns and then, based on 2011 voting, a designated amount per political party and smaller amounts for others.”
Those limits don’t apply until the “regulated period”, which is a certain number of weeks (I think either six or 16) before the referendum date. Before then the sides can raise and spend whatever they like.
Bill C says:8 April, 2013 at 11:46 am
@Bill Mclean -”Poll results printed in Herald a bit disappointing –”
Probably campaign fatigue setting in on the Public. It will all hot up nearer the date of the Referendum. Polls about Independence all show that it is only during the last few weeks before the vote that support for YES shoots up. In Scotland the vote in the last Referendum in 1997 for Devolution with taxation powers, the nearest thing to actual Independence, rose from 44% YES on 1st Sept, to 63.5% in the actual vote on Sept 11. Similarly in Quebec’s Independence Referendum in 1995 polls were showing only 33% in favour of YES early in the campaign which went to 55% three weeks before the vote before dropping to 49.4% in the actual vote.
Thatchers died
@southernscot
“Thatchers died”
Well that’s gonna kick off some conversations…
Party!:-)
Here we go, days if not weeks for msm to load us with bullshit about the wicked witch.
Was already having a good day.
What we are seeing is basically the MSM and the No campaign adopting a ‘winning by any means’ mentality towards the referendum. The MSM has, with a few honourable exceptions, become a Scottish Pravada press. This applies to both broadcasting and the print media. What I can’t understand is why the Yes campaign is literally silent, while this surreal media coverage is unfolding before our very eyes? There is no doubt that massive pressure is being applied by the British establishment behind the scenes.
Margaret Thatcher has died does this mean a state funeral – am sure I read a few years back that this was on the cards – could mean a few more yes converts if they keep ramming her down our throats for the next week or so.
Thatchers dead.
If the stories are correct that Westminster wants to give Thatcher a State Funeral I guess that could be the tipping point in the Referendum .
a supporter – Cheers your info. provides some comfort, but I’m not sure if the old ticker will take such a late surge. I hope we’re at least 50/50 in the polls by the end of the year. As far as Thatcher is concerned, no cheers and rejoicing from me. Just so sad that she was allowed to destroy tens of thousands of individuals and families with her grotesque political and social policies.
“Margaret Thatcher has died does this mean a state funeral…could mean a few more yes converts if they keep ramming her down our throats for the next week or so”
Good point, the sight of Cameron etc glorifying a woman who did so much damage to Scotland (and Wales and Northern England) could well result in an increase in support for independence, but we need to ensure that we don’t go over the top in expressing glee and delight at her death, that could potentially turn people away.
Yes, she will get a state funeral. Things could get very interesting…
@Annie
“Margaret Thatcher has died does this mean a state funeral – am sure I read a few years back that this was on the cards – could mean a few more yes converts if they keep ramming her down our throats for the next week or so.”
It’s the least she could do…
Tough call for Captain Darling – to attend the state funeral or not? Hmmm..
@RevStu Of course, it’s 16 weeks.
@jiggsboro And we’re now working towards getting the flying monkeys on side.
@Training Day
I suspect Salmond will be at the funeral…
Watch Dave, Gideon and IDS (the Tory party) and Bliar, Broon and Millibot (the other Tory party) come out and give speeches on what a strong and passionate leader she was for the country (to appease the Tory vote). Cue BBC tribute programmes ad nausuem and live coverage of her state funeral. Should be a gift to the YES campaign.
I suspect Salmond will be at the funeral…
I certainly hope not ,he can politely decline going ,it would be a huge mistake if he does go
Herald story today on YES campaign contributions has photo of NO campaign political leaders…..seems to be a lot of casual ‘inaccuracy’ about.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-campaign-to-unveil-list-of-donors-amid-cash-row.20723969
@Rod Mac
I think he would be invited as leader of a significant political party. Might think it more diplomatic to attend than turn down a possible invitation.
Latest TNS poll within error is the same as the last one (only around 4 weeks previous to this one so little change would be expected) and is consistent with a gradually falling No and slowly rising Yes + DK when you look at all the polls.
TNS consistently shows the lowest Yes and some of the highest No so is an outlier (I suspect as it is face to face rather than anonymous). Panelbase is closer to the mark; it historically matches the ‘big guns’ of AR and ICM much better.
After peaking in October 2012 at just over 50% N, I’d say it was fairly safe to conclude the support for N / remaining in the union is falling and is now in minority again.
Fine for where we are.
Remember, lots of those saying ‘No’ to TNS (and other pollsters) were previously saying ‘Yes’; about 10% of them in fact. I suspect this is the same lot that were telling pollsters they were going to vote SNP when asked in 2008/9, then said Labour in a panic in 2010, then promptly went out and voted SNP.
That’s at least 10% of the No’s who like the idea of independence/want it to be possible; just feeling a little nervous right now. Kinda like they were at the return of the Tories 2010.
The No vote is soft as hell.
“I certainly hope not ,he can politely decline going ,it would be a huge mistake if he does go”
Its a difficult one for Salmond, if its a state funeral then he’s almost obligated to attend due to him being the leader of Scotland, just as he attended the Royal wedding and the Queen’s jubilee in the same capacity.
From the BBC website, no state funeral in accordance with her own wishes…
Salmond could say he is ill (at the right time) too nauseous to turn up to that evil woman’s pomp tax-funded funeral.
scottish skier
” the no vote is as soft as hell”
Couldn’t agree more. Although there are hard No’s most people I talk to who intend voting no is bacuase of financial worries. i.e. can we afford to be independent? This in my opinion is the most important factor.
@Scottish_Skier
Is it not concerning that the Yes campaign are always hovering around the 30% mark?
The Scottish editors and political editors including the broadcasters are guilty of hypocrisy and double standards.
Imagine the vitriolic headlines if Vitol Plc CEO had donated £500,000 to the Yes campaign and Labour’s faux outrage.
Read more about the dodgy donations at
http://nationalcollective.com/2013/04/07/dirty-money-the-tory-millionaire-bankrolling-better-together/
Scottish Skier and “a supporter” – thanks for your words of encouragement – I guess I take this stuff far too seriously but I’m clocking on and desperate to see Scotland independent before I go. My English wife understands how much better off we will be independent and that it would probably benefit England by making it grow up – needless to say she’s far more savvy than I am!
Is it not concerning that the Yes campaign are always hovering around the 30% mark?
They’re not. Latest (and likely far more reliable due to matching ICM and AR historically) panelbase had 36% and rising. Both TNS and MORI – who’ve had the most polls recently – are the two which always show the lowest yes and highest no. I suspect this is partly because they are not anonymous (face to face and telephone); weighting is less in depth than AR and ICM too.
Polls were showing up to 51% Yes with the Yes ahead of the No (conservative 45Y/39N) in late 2011. We’ve just been through ‘panic’ year (2012) after ‘oh god the Tories are back and Labour have been a disaster – we’re off’ year (2011).
2013 will be ‘Hmm, I want independence and don’t believe all the crap that’s had me nervous’ year. All polls have shown No falling and Yes rising since October last year when the Edinburgh Agreement was signed (major turning point as it ‘ok’d’ the referendum). It’s not a headlong rush, but it’s happening. This latest TNS fits the trend – of all polls – nicely.
People really need to not fixate on the ‘latest’ poll and instead consider the big picture. All the polls since 1997 is a good start.
Polls don’t tell you what is going to happen, just give you a bit of an insight into what the population is thinking. Labour (and prof C) fell into that trap in late 2010. Polls ‘said’ Labour were on for a big victory, even a majority. Yet if you looked at all the polls going back to 2007 at least, that made no sense. People who were saying SNP before were now answering Labour even though the SNP had done nothing wrong and were popular in terms of performance. Of course these people went out and voted SNP because that was what they really wanted.
At least 10% or more of those saying No want independence in their hearts. The’d never have answered Yes before if they didn’t.
“At least 10% or more of those saying No want independence in their hearts. The’d never have answered Yes before if they didn’t”
So why on earth did they say ‘no’ then if they really want yes?!
Of course Mr. Salmond will have to attend Mrs. Thatcher’s state funeral. The clue is in the words: State Funeral.
It doesn’t mean that he approved of the ex PM’s doings. It’s simply a matter of form for the First Minister to attend these sort of State occasions.
The fact that neither Blair nor Brown attended the opening of the Scottish Parliament and that Brown didn’t have the decency to congratulate Mr. Salmond on winning the Scottish election shows merely that Blair and Brown are cretins. Their actions did them no favours at all.
Then again the First Minister could always ask his deputy or one of his junior ministers to attend in his place. ”The First Minister is unwell/the First Minister can’t find his tie/the First Minister is doing a crossword at the moment’ sort of excuse ought to be enough. That would let him off the hook and put a finger in the eye of the British Establishment.
NW: So why on earth did they say ‘no’ then if they really want yes?!
You’d be better asking them “Why did you say Yes in late 2011 when we asked you but now you are saying no? Do you love the union/Tories again or is it just nerves? Maybe you are holding out for devo max? Maybe you are shy about your support to not seem to be one of those nasty separatists?”
I’d suggest it was for similar reasons (these same I suspect) people said ‘Labour’ when asked in late 2010 even though they supported the SNP (they’d been saying ‘SNP’ the year before when asked) and then went out and voted SNP just 6-8 weeks later. Hence the egg on Prof C’s face.
If you want an accurate prediction, the best thing would be to ask (ideally anonymously):
In an ideal world, would you like Scotland to be independent?
A single question poll reveals nothing about motivation and/or how truly strong that motivation is.
Likewise, pollsters are struggling with weighting (hence the huge variance between polls). Normally, they can weight based on their previous experience of how well they predicted an election outcome previously. They can ask you whether you voted and what you voted last time; something crucial in predicting your behaviour this time. So Mr Jock, did you vote in the last referendum on Scottish independence and what did you vote? Oh-oh.
Anyhoo, taking into account the latest TNS, No is down 5% since October 2012 with Yes up 3-4%. Signing of the Edinburgh Agreement was the peak for the pro-union campaign. Achingly slow it may seem, but that’s something people will need to be patient with.
the rough bounds says:
8 April, 2013 at 2:37 pm
“Of course Mr. Salmond will have to attend Mrs. Thatcher’s state funeral. The clue is in the words: State Funeral.”
Wouldn’t it be apt to send Lamont to represent him? 🙂
I feel if Yes can start averaging late 30s into 40s by early 2014, then the Yes vote has an excellent chance of coming home in September.
Women still are less likely to vote for Independence and I don’t know how we are going to change that. Just a lone by Twitter or speaking to people out and about.
Saying that, just from speaking to people in the pub (maybe not the greatest method of demographic) at the weekend, near on everyone was saying they will vote Yes. 3/4 undecided guys all said they are more than likely swaying towards Yes and I was very surprised by this, if by reading the polls, Twitter and media – I was expecting to be less clear.
Again though, it was a pub nearing six bells – a few whiskys and good chatter.
The race is long folks…
P.S I’m really, really enjoying this blog! Thanks for all the contributions to all and keeping up the good fight. Already posted many articles to friends via e-mail are spreading the word.
“Of course Mr. Salmond will have to attend Mrs. Thatcher’s state funeral. The clue is in the words: State Funeral.”
She isn’t having a state funeral, though. She’s having a ceremonial one with military honours, which is actually a different thing.
She’s having a ceremonial one with military honours, which is actually a different thing.
Yep like the Queen Mum and Princess Di did…….I wonder who’s paying for that then ?
I agree with Ken Loach (and many others)……
Privatise her funeral….it’s what she would have wanted
The hypocrisy of my MP Gordon Brown is the worst. I lived through the Thatcher years trying to bring up my two kids on the little benefit I was on and listening to her and her Gov bleat on that kids from single parent families were more likely to become criminals/addicts (my son is very successful and my daughter is a hardworking,caring care assistant). The fact that Gordon’s dad and he himself helped the town’s miners and their families who were in deep poverty due to no wages and a long strike along with witnessing the devastation to the community when the pits closed down. Then I read about what seems to be his admiration and acceptance of this extortionate state like funeral……to me thats putting the fingers up to the folk of Kirkcaldy and Fife. I hope they pay him back in kind,by voting Yes next year! I will be!