The flexibility of speculation
If you work in the media, the great attraction of completely making up stories is that everyone’s forgotten about them a few days later, so you can make up a totally different, equally false version at a later date with impunity.
Alert readers may recall, for example, that last November much of the media decided to claim that Andy Murray was definitely a Unionist.
So naive readers might imagine that when the Wimbledon and US Open winner came out at the weekend and said that in fact he WOULDN’T be publicly revealing his view on independence after all, that might be seen as a bit of a setback to the No camp.
We know better than that, of course.
Because in the zany world of the British media, “Popular celebrity Unionist decides not to publicly back the Union” magically becomes a blow to the Yes campaign.
“As a resident of England, Murray is unable to cast a vote when Scotland votes on independence on September 18, but his unwillingness to publically [sic] back a move to break the 200-year-old union will no-doubt disappoint the Yes campaign.”
Please note: WE’RE not saying Andy Murray is a Unionist. That’s a reference to the media claims in November. We neither know nor care how he feels about it, and respect his decision to keep his views to himself.
But we’re pretty sure that even if he actually announced tomorrow he was 100% Yes and was going to be the face of a new Yes Scotland poster campaign, the press would spin that as a blow to independence too. (“Bad news for Salmond as separatist tennis star living in Surrey is accused of interfering in referendum even though he can’t vote.”)
And you don’t need to be Hawk-Eye to see that.
Because in the corrupt world of the British media, actually. It is rather weird how this creep sez the only issue that’s preventing new democracy in Scotland next year is BetterTogether’s complacency, as in ” anti-divorce Better Together campaign, way ahead in the polls, fears complacency could let Alex Salmond’s Separatists steal victory in next September’s referendum.”
The most aggressive UKOK propaganda/media campaign since WW2 from clowns like Mcguire and the BBC in particular, is a very odd kind of complacency. “Separatists steal victory” may well be the idiot’s headline 19th September.
Given that teh Telegraph article tells us that the Union is 200 years old we can expect the rest of their “facts” to be equally accurate.
Andy’s best comment should be that he is in favour of tennis.
It’s really just an excuse for them to drag up the old world cup “anyone but England” story…for a bit more Scot bashing
Some English people still site (sic) the remarks as a reason not to support him
Telegraph subs obviously had the day off….
If I were Andy Murray, I’d be looking for a good excuse not to play at Wimbledon this year. He’ll be hounded for comment on the referendum throughout.
Well I would actually take non disclosure as a Yes given the abuse he got over his Anyone but England comments but you’re right, who cares! And how did they manage to lose 100 years of the union?
In the Anderw Marr interview he said “I think we need to do what’s best for the country – what’s best for Scotland” and it occurred to me what a fuss there would have been if, instead of “Scotland”, he’s said “Britain” or “the UK” at the same point.
Ah, Kevin Maguire, the ‘socialist’ who cannae wait to avail himself of Murdoch’s money via his weekly appearance on Sky’s Press Preview.
September 19th headlines: ‘Devastating blow for Salmond and splittists as Scotland votes to split’.
Everybody from Scotland knows how union jack jingoistic middle England has become. If Murray said YES he’d booed at Wimbledon by a hostile crowd and media every time he stepped on an unplayable court.
@Edward Andrews 10:08am
Are you sure that just wasn’t an old unsold copy that you picked up
I’ve not seen the Marr interview, but last time he spoke about it, I’m sure he said he would definitely be voting (presumably by using the Stirlingshire hotel he owns as his address), and he certainly said he would be looking at both sides to decide what would be best – which hardly screams out “OMG Scotland is totes Better Together!!!!!”
Surprised they haven’t demanded that no shows on the day be counted as No votes too.
Smacks a wee bit of desperation by the Mirror and Telegraph. Given he cited the grief he got for making a wee joke about not supporting England as his reason for saying nothing I would have thought it easier to suggest that he might lean to Yes but doesn’t want to be seen as anti-English by a press that struggles to like his Scottishness despite delivering Wimbledon, New York and an Olympic gold and silver for Britain.
However I respect his decision to stay out of this as he doesn’t have a vote. Pity Maguire et al are incapable of showing similar respect.
Sorry, O/T but delighted to see my first large billboard in the YES campaign as I was driving in the Leith area. Obviously I was keeping my eye on the road (ahem) but the theme was the future of our children. Great!
Sensible of Murray. He’d get someone’s goat up either way, though his stance is perhaps telling given how much more of an easy ride he’d get from the media had he said ‘no’.
Andy has done the right thing IMHO, as no matter what he said (YES, NO, mibbes), it would be twisted and used against both him AND the debate on Scottish independence by the paid liars (‘journalists’) in the media.
I look forward to him defending his title at Wimbledon later this year. A great Scottish sportsman.
You couldn’t make it up, could you?
Fortunately enough the Mirror and Torygraph have ‘journalists’ who can. I mean, it’s a bit of stretch when you get such a blatantly neutral stance and they try to spin it to mean no, isn’t it?
I heard his statement. It was pretty clear that he wasn’t stating an opinion either way because he got utter dogs abuse for daring to suggest he didn’t support England at football in a complete throwaway remark that anyone with half a brain wouldn’t (shouldn’t?) have taken offence at. It was no more a blow to Yes than it was a blow to No. He expressed not a word which would allow anyone to guage a bias in either direction.
Now, I would love it if he just said ‘aye, well, it’s common sense to vote yes, isn’t it?’ But in his case he’d attract so much vitriol I both understand and respect the position he’s chosen. After all, you get death threats supporting yes, don’t you? Well, I suppose that’s Frankie Boyle I’m thinking of there; and he could be getting death threats from a few different directions.
Difference is; he’s sharp enough to deal with the morons because that’s his approach.
seenair,
That is great news, I haven’t seen them myself yet.
This one goes out to Andy
link to m.youtube.com
Hang in there bro.
He’s a business. A good business. How else should he respond at this stage? (And how else would the Pavlovian media react?)
Lets just calm down. They have been reading that book again, “Reporting For Dummies”, with a bit of luck they will choke on it!
O/T but I am really looking forward to Stu dissection of the Ming/Brown proposals…I think I have given Maguire more time than he deserves already.
The London media cannot understand pro-Scottishness as anything other than anti-Englishness.
Andy’s wise to keep mum (as was Billy Connolly IMO), but a pattern is emerging. Scottish celebs who rely strongly on London media goodwill will be too frightened to say they are backing Yes.
Farmer sales, SHITE £3 a bag,makes yer Roses grow
Journalists SHITE story,s £50k +,hastens brain cell death
To WEE, Oota da winda
To poor, Oota da winda
To stupid,and in journalistic parlance,ye kin sell the same
regurgitated Shite over n over WHY because we can,that and
we,re super dooper Inteligent people, and the Hoy Paloy
are ea sily fooled. Aye rite.
Poll on Gordon Brown’s devo proposals, open now for votes in today’s Courier:
link to thecourier.co.uk
Hawk-Eye the Noo:
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
I wonder if the unionist press spotted those as Andy entered 10 Downing Street?
Sometimes you have to stop and pinch yourself though. A Scot from Dunblane, 2013 Men’s Singles Wimbledon Champion, Olympic Gold winner, maybe greatest Scottish athlete ever. Times are a changing!
Morning all back to the fore ( nae spell checker, so,s watch oot, ,./;#[]&[=-).
@FergusGreen
Ha! Just looked at the Brown poll in the Courier –
How will Gordon Brown’s involvement affect the Better Together campaign?
Three options: Help; Hinder; Make No Difference.
The third option is winning. So much for “Big Beast deigns to enter independence debate”!
Lucky he isn’t egotistical, eh?
That he didn’t wrap himself in the Union Jack
on winning Wimbledon said enough for me.
He could have whipped his shorts off and had
a dump on the flag and the media would’ve spun
it as some sort of ‘blow to independence’.
I totally understand him keeping his own counsel.
However, look at the difference in media reaction
to his ‘anyone but England’ statement and Beckham’s
comment (quite righly) that wouldn’t support Scotland
when the media were desperately trying to prove that
Scots not supporting England at the Euros/WC were racist.
link to theguardian.com Great CiF from guardian reader meljomur on Crash Gordon’s jam tomorrow so vote no jibberish.
I really hope the charming reprobates at the Daily Mail are Guardian readers too.
Don’t you just hate it when people ‘retire’ then pop-up again ten minutes later?
Ming Campbell?
Oh FFS…‘We meet again! For the last time!’
Ah wiz at a bit of a loss yesterday Andrew Marr interviewing Paloma Faith, & his referance to Scotland ( I
thought thats a bit out of contect ) then camera panned to the band, brilliant, & the song brillaint to,very apt.
Its a long, long, road lads n lasses, but are wee no eatin up the miles,Smile We,re Winning.
one of gords 6 commandments
:: A constitutional guarantee of the permanence of the Scottish Parliament, backed up by a constitutional lock that prevents it being overruled or undermined.
bfh—very strange,why do you need a guarantee?
I must be one of the few Scots who can’t be bothered with Andy Murray. He is a great Tennis player. But God the guy is as dull as dishwater. I switch off when he speaks. I am not really that interested in what he thinks as he has played both sides pretty well over the years. He had to almost become English to win over the Wimbledon crowd and that says it all about how they view Scots down there!
“A constitutional guarantee of the permanence of the Scottish Parliament, backed up by a constitutional lock that prevents it being overruled or undermined” is snake oil sales peddling, assure, reassure, reinforce, promise, bait and switch, leggit…
Andy is in a particularly bad position, because he’s not only one of Scotland’s biggest sporting figures, but one of the UK’s biggest too. As such, either position on the referendum is going to be used as a bludgeon with which to beat the Yes campaign.
If Andy’s a No, then Salmond’s “political stunt” at Wimbledon (because the First Minister of a country waving that country’s flag when the competitor from that same country wins a big sporting event is apparently “political”) will be shown to be a failure. Salmond’s “stunt” had “failed,” for Andy’s Better Together.
If Andy’s a Yes, though, then he will be viewed as a ("Tractor" - Ed) to Scotland, possibly bought or seduced by Salmond/SNP, and then that “he doesn’t even live in Scotland, why should he get to say anything” first used against Connery, Cumming and Cox (but strangely not against the Krankies, Barrowman or the like) would get trotted out.
The London media cannot understand pro-Scottishness as anything other than anti-Englishness.
Well, how can it not be? Anything that promotes Scottishness is a slight on the supremacy of England (read: London). Tommy Sheridan was onto something: we’re not saying we’re better than anyone, but that nobody’s better than us – we’re equal. And in any system where there are people who are better than worse, those who are “better” are going to view any attempt to equalize as a threat on their dominance.
So from that point of view, pro-Scottishness – and that extends to Scottish Independence – is anti-English, if you assume the Manifest Destiny of Britain.
Re Gordon Brown, Ming Campbell, Labour,Tory Liberal -doesn’t matter how they wrap it up , constitutional change, federalism , tax raising , hair raising, Blood pressure raising words .The bottom line for all of Unionism is
Westminster still keeps the money , power , control
No Thanks
bookie
At the moment Holyrood exists on the whim of Westminster and they could if they wanted to (Lord Foulkes and Lord Forsyth want) pull the plug. If there was a No vote such a lock would be essential and it should have been there from the outset.
Now here is an example of pressure being applied – by the unionist
After the abuse he received when he made his joke about “anyone but England” he is going to keep his head low.
Tamson
The London media cannot understand pro-Scottishness as anything other than anti-Englishness.
That sums up the BritNat mindset perfectly. How could anyone of sound mind ever think of abandoning the wonderful UK?
They just don’t get it, and I don’t suppose they ever will.
this article in your face racism slants on who can vote
link to bloomberg.com
Some years ago a freelancer pal of mine was asked to go visit a Glasgow pub to report back on the ‘Scot’s’ view of England playing in the world cup. My mate responded that no one he spoke to was actually phased either way about the England team, but the editor apparently wanted evidence of anti english sentiment.
Murray, on the other hand, will now be constantly pressured to pledge allegiance to the UK, because if you ain’t for us, you must be agin us… right ?
Correct Luigi. nationalism = legitimate if it’s British. If it’s Scottish it’s small minded ,bigoted and racist. Yet the irony is what flag do the national front stand behind,The Orange Order, Rangers fans,BNP,UKIP,imperialism,colonialism,Belfast…That’s British fair play. They won’t ever get it as they think they are at the centre of the universe and everything that is good is British. On the other hand Scottish people are just Scottish and we don’t have an axe to grind with anyone other than those who wish to impose a nationality onto us. That’s known as fascism anywhere else. So if you don’t want to be ruled by England they call you a bigot or a despot. We only have to to look at colonial India and Rep of Eire. They tried the same with them. The problem with bigots is that they are bigots and by definition can’t see another country or nationality as anything other than a threat to theirs.Hence the word foreigner and immigrants keeps cropping up even amongst educated people in English debates. Foreign = threat to them. Scots would become foreign! What does that actually mean! We are foreign in the sense that we have a different mindset to the English estblishment but that’s a good thing. Fake Britannia is just bigotry wrapped in a Union Flag.
State broadcaster opens comments on Broons unionist Plan B. Should be fun!
Check the MASSIVE WINGS LOGO on this!
link to m.youtube.com
next time Andy plays outwith POHM-Y land have a look at his wrist bands
@ Square Haggis
I have 2 wings stickers on my car. My neighbour commented on them and I thought, ideal time to ask him about the referendum.
“Nice stickers” says he… “I didn’t know you worked for Armani”
Crestfallen is not a town in Germany…:-(
Pretty obvious goading by middle england to declare. Lots of little englanders hate him and the papers know it.
He’d be a Yes in my opinion. Many of his family are, by all accounts ; )
He might eventually come out if the papers continue hounding him about it, could lead to him arguing for a sensible debate about it.
It would appear that Gordon Brown -the Greta Garbo of Scottish politics – is seriously out of step with either Michael McCann MP,( no never heard of him either!) who is supposedly the leader in waiting of Scottish Labour MPs, or with Scottish Labour MSPs head honcho, Johann Lamont, who take diametrically opposing views about increasing Scottish tax raising powers
Survation have released the tables for their latest poll for the Express. Yes / No was asked. Clearly the Express didn’t want that part reported.
link to survation.com
However, as the Express did tie abuse levels to Y and No support, under BPC guidlines they should have made the crosstabs for this available. They clearly stated 21% of Yes had suffered abuse with only 8% of No. How can we be sure they didn’t make this up unless we have the tables to judge for ourselves?
Rev – maybe you might want to chase.
Well done Andy – right thing to do!
There was a quote in a Telegraph piece which someone linked in yesterday’s post, where he talks about why he likes America:
“I just enjoy the positivity of the people here. You wake up at 6am and go to Starbucks and the person that’s serving you just genuinely seems happy to see you. They are awake and just have a positive outlook on life.”
“It’s not the case everywhere. That’s why I always enjoy coming here and why I spend my off seasons training here and why I have made Miami my second home.”
He likes positivity – if he did live here, I think we know which campaign would appeal to him.
Gords Declaration of Cowdenbeath
He has a moot point
Here’s the link to that Dundee Courier poll on Broon’s involvement
link to thecourier.co.uk
HandandShrimp says:
O/T but I am really looking forward to Stu dissection of the Ming/Brown proposals…
Brown is talking of ‘increased transport and health powers’. Given transport and health are already completely devolved (oh wait, not 100%, perhaps he means air passenger duty!), it suggests to me he doesn’t know what he is talking about, and the rest is just his usual managerial mendacity. Constitutional laws and a constitutional lock – has he never heard of England’s doctrine of Parliamentary supremacy, which states that any parliament can overturn any previous parliament’s decisions? Good luck Gordon with persuading Scots that Westminster will voluntarily give up power to them after they’ve voted ‘no’.
Here’s the link to that Dundee Courier poll on Broon’s involvement
link to thecourier.co.uk
(Stu delete prior attempt at posting this please. Got the e-mail address wrong … duh!)
Some Politicans should just retire disgracefully, and take their punishment.
And there’s more:
A new tax sharing agreement between London and Edinburgh “that balances the commitment of the UK to pool and share its resources with the need for accountability to the electors in all the arenas where money is spent.”
I have heard this ‘pool and share resources’ line before, think Danny or Dougie Alexander were using it? It effectively means scrapping Barnett, which means Scotland gets even less of the money back it sends to Westminster. Bit of a steep price for getting control of Air Passenger Duty.
Scottish Skier
Is that all they have made available?
HnS: Is that all they have made available?
Yes, so far. Q23 and 24 only. There’s a lot in that poll. Where is it all?
Can’t help but make me think…if it was all Britannia rules the waves in jockland stuff, where is it all?
Just had a look at the comments on the Broon story on the BBC News website.
The floodgates have opened.
That’s one reason why we should have continuous access to comments on the Scottish section, it might limit the volume of tripe that’s trotted out every time (once a fortnight) that the BBC decide we need some recourse to “debate”.
Remember this little stunt in 2006… and the link to the mirror in the article is quite “interesting” regarding Andy Murray.
link to bbc.co.uk
It is absolutely disgraceful that anyone should not be able to say what they think about Scotland’s referendum without living in fear of a backlash against them. I suspect it is much more likely that someone like A Murray would be open to abuse if he said he supported YES rather than no.
You would think we were living in the dark ages, or at the time of the witch trials. No one should be scared to speak out on important issues like our referendum, I find it aborrant to think that people almost live in fear of showing their support, for fear of being ridiculed or worse.
maybe greatest Scottish athlete ever
Don’t say that anywhere near Allan Wells….
r4 watch.
This morning a representative from Grangemouth petrochemical co was being interviewed and the last question was of course the obligatory referendum one.
Makes no difference to us either way said the guy much to the audible annoyance of the BBC robot.
Taranaich; another excellent comment, sir. If you do not write your own blog you probably should. You have a turn of phrase that, in common with the contributors to WoS, cuts through a lot of crap and aims squarely at the point.
Or perhaps the Rev would give you an occasional outlet.
Either way, your views are invariably worth reading on here.
The attacks upon the democratic process by the Fourth Estate are outrageous, indivuduals orchestrating them eligible for jail sentences.
On BBC website: Scottish independence: Grangemouth ‘not affected’ by referendum vote. The result of the independence referendum will not make a difference to the future of the Grangemouth oil refinery, according to its boss.
Jim Ratcliffe, whose company Ineos operates the plant, told the BBC: “It will survive in both scenarios.”
Speaking on the Today programme, he said: “I don’t think the Scottish vote will make any difference to Grangemouth one way or the other.”
link to bbc.com
Poor Andy.
Can’t wear his hair the way he wants (link to heraldscotland.com ) and has to watch his every word for fear of being interpreted as being “anti-English”.
I heard him on the radio yesterday and what struck me was he referring to the abuse (from English people and press) he endured for years after the “anyone but England” joke. No wonder he keeps mum about anything to do with Scottish politics.
It’s not easy being a tennis star, especially a British tennis star.
O/T re what is devolved in Transport.
I don’t think the franchise part of railways is devolved.
@bjsalba,
Scotrail franchise is devolved!
link to transportscotland.gov.uk
..as is trunk road maintenance, ferries (road equivalent tariffs)etc. And I don’t think the Borders Railway would have happened if Westminster had anything to do with it.
I am not surprised by this decision. I think Andy Murray has made the wisest choice. Really a no win situation for Murray.
The unionist media are getting really, really desperate.
“Don’t say that anywhere near Allan Wells….”
Since he and his wife now live in Guildford, I think he’s safe.
It’s your vote Andy and it’s as private and secret as you want it to be. Tell them TAE FO
scottish_skier says:
10 March, 2014 at 11:37 am
Survation have released the tables for their latest poll for the Express. Yes / No was asked. Clearly the Express didn’t want that part reported.
According to Survation, questions 23 and 24 were the only ones done for the Express. They were part of an “omnibus poll in Scotland which we run each month”.
Tables for other questions including voting intention will apparently “be published in due course once results from relevant questions enter the public domain, which will be once the relevant client(s) decide to publish such results”.
Hotrod Cadets
That all sounds pretty corrupt surely
Update from Survation this morning:
“It is currently expected that the headline voting intention results will be published no later than Thursday this week in a Scottish daily newspaper.”