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Wings Over Scotland

Together on tour

Posted on August 04, 2013 by

After a reader revealed that the lonely lady staffing the “Better Together” stall in Dundee yesterday was from the north-east of England, we did a little digging and discovered that she’s so dedicated to the No cause she’s been touring the whole of the UK (and even some farther-flung places) espousing the positive case for the Union.


It took some Euan McColm-esque sleuthing to track down all the evidence, but Wings Over Scotland stops at nothing to bring its readers the news that really matters.

(Above) Gartcosh Asylum, Glasgow.


Ardmair Point, Ullapool.


Town centre, Linwood.


Coleburn Distillery, Speyside.


Princes Pier Tunnel, Greenock.


Polphail Village, Portavadie, Argyll.


Bangour Village Hospital, Dechmont.


Edingham munitions factory, Dalbeattie.


Easter Road, Edinburgh.


ICI Ardeer, North Ayrshire.


Inchkeith Island, Firth of Forth.


Hartwood Hospital, Glasgow.


Nelson Pottery, Hanley.


Near Dishforth, Yorkshire.


Krypton Factor assault course, Ravensworth.


(Later on she tried her luck inside.)


Great Gaddesden, Hertfordshire.


Lulworth Cove, Dorset.



Bideford Care Home, Devon.


Folkestone Harbour Station, Folkestone.


Antrim, Northern Ireland.


“Zombieland”, Los Angeles.


Unspecified location, Berlin.


Blackburn, West Lothian.


Sea Of Tranquility, Luna.


“Better Together” office, Glasgow.

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213 to “Together on tour”

  1. Bill C says:


  2. Restlessnative says:

    Nearly spat ma coffee over ma laptop!!!

  3. Rgweir says:

    First Class.

  4. Craig Munro says:


  5. Beastie says:

    Hehe… you do know Better Together won’t realise this is meant to be a joke?

    Incidentally, my initial reaction to Blackburn, West Lothian was ‘that’s a screenshot from Fallout 3.’ My second thought was ‘oh, wait, I’ve been to Blackburn… not far off, then.’

  6. Iain More says:

    Stop it my ribs hurt! That scene from Blackburn West Lothian though looks like a post apocalyptic scene from Fallout 3. Amazing lassie, she can see the Better Together future! 

  7. jim mitchell says:

    Beastie , your right of course, unionists don’t do humour!

  8. Shinty says:

    Nice one Rev. Stu – hate to admit it but you had me going over the first few.

  9. proudscot says:

    Beastie, your comment that Po-faced Darling’s BT lot will not see this as a joke is bang on. They remind me of Tommy Lee Jones’ character in Men In Black when he says, “We in the FBI do not have a sense of humour that we’re aware of!”

  10. HeatherMcLean says:

    Hahahaha!! Love it!! Very clever whoever is behind this!!

  11. The Man in the Jar says:

    I notice that Blackburn has improved somewhat since the last time that I visited!

  12. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Hee Hee but remember what Gordon Bain said previous thread ‘She has a minder whose been to the gym.

  13. Luigi says:

    The one thing you will never see near a BT stand is a union flag.

    Strange, isn’t it?

  14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Hahahaha!! Love it!! Very clever whoever is behind this!!”


  15. david says:

    this courageous lady does not deserve this scorn

  16. The Man in the Jar says:

    The lady has obviously won first prize on “I Love My Country”!

  17. Jamie Arriere says:

    Oh dear. Photoshopping is such a cruel sport! Of course, she’ll have a taste for ‘desolate’ places…….

  18. James Westland says:

    Brilliant! This has serious meme potential. A bit like the “Tourist Guy” who was supposedly photographed on top of the WTC. And ended up in front of pics of every disaster that ever happened!
    Well done! 🙂

  19. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Nice to see recognisable sites. Mum lives in Linwood, and worked in Gartcosh before I was born. (When everything was black and white, and people walked around a lot faster)

  20. Jamie Arriere says:

    Hey, we may laugh but she’s not wasting her time. There’s someone trying to break into Gartcosh Asylum – look lively pet, you’ve got a perfect customer…..

  21. DanTDog says:

    Inspired…and inspirational…! ROFPML! Must admit, had me going for a few seconds till the bawbee clattered tae the flair, ha ha ha!!!

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Brilliant! This has serious meme potential.”

    If you want to play along at home, you can download the Lonely Better Together Lady as a transparent PNG here:

  23. alasdair says:

    lol, someone’s having a slow day!!

    Might play this later 😀

  24. Erchie says:

    I think it’s a wee bit cruel against the person concerned, unless she had earned it in some manner. Being clueless isn’t enough

  25. Juteman says:

    I’m sure i spotted her talking to tourists on the summit of Ben Nevis.

  26. Richie says:

    Here she is at Johann Lamont’s hoose

  27. HenBroon says:

    here are some unionist created landscapes she would sit well in

  28. Richie says:

    Here she is trying to get the votes of some oil workers

  29. moose666 says:

    The Better Together Deimos branch was met with disinterest by the locals.

  30. Yesitis says:

    I hear she got the job as opening act for Texas.

  31. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I think it’s a wee bit cruel against the person concerned, unless she had earned it in some manner.”

    See the comments in the previous post from the people who met her.

    (I don’t really see how it’s “cruel”, anyway. We’re not mocking her looks or anything.)

  32. frankieboy says:

    I see the BT office has been decorated in positive tones

  33. Juteman says:

    OT, but a wee guy down the pub with contacts in London just told me where Johann has been.
    I’m sworn to secrecy, but all will be revealed on the BBC tonight at 7pm.

  34. CameronB says:

    I think the Sea Of Tranquility one is a fake.

  35. MajorBloodnok says:

    Yes, I think you’re right.  She’s very obviously in Lacus Timoris (the Lake of Fear).

  36. Morag says:

    Were people really laughing at the “UKOK” posters?  I thought I only read it that way because I’d been conditioned to.  Hilarious if casual passers-by spot it.  (A bit like suddenly spotting the double entendre in the courtly song you’ve been performing for months.)

  37. Caledonalistic says:

    Genuinely funny Rev.  Some of those are just pure class.  “Zombieland, Los Angeles”.  Brilliant!

  38. TYRAN says:

    Here she is… from 1 million years BC, in Belfast, somewhere undiscovered and with that penguin in the middle of no where.

  39. Seasick Dave says:

    I think that she was the Hibees star player today.

  40. Seasick Dave says:

    I hope that someone from the Yes stall offered the pet lamb a cup of coffee and a biscuit?

  41. Patrick Roden says:

    OK, being serious for a minute, but was this woman really on her own manning the BT stall?
    Was she really bussed up from Geordie land?
    Did the people of Dundee really body swerve it, as indicated in the picture taken in Baxter park?
    If so, BT are in even worse trouble than I realised….which would be nice  😉

  42. Juteman says:

    A Lordship might be very close. 😉

  43. Colin Dunn says:


    4 August, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    “this courageous lady does not deserve this scorn”

    Actually, I agree. Sorry, Stu, but not finding this article funny. I admire her dedication and determination, if not her viewpoint.


  44. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Actually, I agree. Sorry, Stu, but not finding this article funny. I admire her dedication and determination, if not her viewpoint.”

    Well, you can’t please all the people all the time. But I’m curious what you think is “courageous” about going out and sitting on your arse in a public park advocating the majority view and telling people who ask you questions to fuck off.

  45. Seasick Dave says:

    You don’t think that she Biffa’s mam?

  46. G H Graham says:

    I chuckled out really loud after I decided that Euan McColm might protest to WOS because he believed that his scoop had been plagiarised.  

  47. rabb says:

    At least we know where Lamont is now!
    Over 37,000 no signatures already don’t you know!

  48. joe kane says:

    I wonder if she’s any relation to to the famous pepper-spraying Lt John Pike who also went on his own unique world tour as well? 

    Pepper Spraying Cop

    Archive view – 

  49. david says:

    i wouldnt have the bottle to take a treacherous treasonous viewpoint to a people. so she is brave

  50. John says:

    Bit rich, considering where you live. How is Bath these days?

  51. Morag says:

    I don’t mind her having a Geordie accent if she lives here.  Geordie accents are nice.  But if she has travelled to Scotland to interfere in a referendum she herself is not entitled to vote in, hell mend her.

  52. cynicalHighlander says:

    Maybe she had this sign on her table.

  53. Jamie Arriere says:

    david, Colin Dunn – We all try to be nice people as much as we can, but go and read Gordon Bain’s account of his encounter with this “brave” lady in the Together Alone page, and then consider if she’s doing a great job and embracing the debate in the way you would like.

  54. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Bit rich, considering where you live. How is Bath these days?”

    Lovely, thanks. Why is it “a bit rich”?

  55. david says:

    you are probably right. i just feel like she is  being picked on. if she isnt a nice person i still dont like the idea of ganging up on her. 

  56. Jamie Arriere says:

    It will all be forgotten tomorrow, more posts will follow on the real issues and we will all leave her alone safe in the knowledge that she’s unlikely to persuade many people to her cause. Fun never lasts long.

  57. Breastplate says:

    I was of the view that it is the less than busy UKOK table that is the joke and not her as she could be interchangeable with any number of people or even just have an empty seat. Although a bonus she is misinformed, that can be said of anyone sitting behind those tables.
    It would be funnier with Lamont sitting there in those pictures.

  58. G H Graham says:

    Here come the thought police

  59. kininvie says:

    I see they’ve got some trees in Blackburn now. And a lovely view of the Bathgate Hills.

  60. Rod Mac says:

    When you think of some of the names unionists have used against independinistas I find it difficult to have any sympathy for any of them ,let alone this foul mouthed Geordie lady.
    Were your sensibilities as offended by McDougall’s vile comments yesterday  to the Rev and all of us on this site?

  61. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Blimey. Some Labour nutcase is playing the race card on this one, as apparently we’re “taking the piss out of a black English Labour councillor from Dundee”.

    We’d established she was English and a resident of Dundee seemed a fair bet, but that’s the palest “black” person I ever saw.

    And even assuming she is in some way “black”, what’s that got to do with anything? Nobody’s mentioned her race. Nobody even noticed it.

  62. HandandShrimp says:

    It is an amusing montage and a good running joke. I guess it is inevitable that the Bitter types aren’t going to laugh but the race card? She is a white middle aged women who looks so bored she appears to be contemplating eating her own placard to stay awake.
    No one has actually said anything about her (other than the Yes supporter that had the unpleasant conversation with both her and the other chap that was with her). what is funny is the fact that she appears to be a solitary figure desperately looking for someone to give a leaflet to.  Even if they paint her black that will still be funny.

  63. Morag says:

    Black?  Seriously?  Do they need new specs or something?

    But even if she was, should everyone who is ready with a damn good piss-take back off and say, oh dearie me no, we can’t lampoon someone in an eminently lampoonable position, if she’s black – that would be racist!


  64. Kilty says:

    I would have to agree with David on this one.
    Regardless of how rude she may have been it seems to me that she was out there for something that she believed in.

  65. Mosstrooper says:

    Just got back from a few days in Arran with friends (three scots two english-all yes voters) This is really funny. As for you bleeding hearts get a humour transplant FFS

  66. James Westland says:

    Is her name Georgia Cruikshank?

  67. HandandShrimp says:

    Yes she was and no one is saying anything against that. It is the total lack of interest by anyone else in what she believes in that is the point. U-KOK are not going to give us an easy ride if we turn up understaffed and with a lacklustre stall and rightly so.

  68. HandandShrimp says:

    Is her name Georgia Cruikshank?
    I’m going to go with that is not a wild guess. If it is a wild guess we could be here all night. 

  69. Mosstrooper says:

    @Kilty and David  etc. POL POT went about doing things he “believed in”
    THIS IS AN OBVIOUS JOKE you humourless prats.
    I’m off to make my dinner and talk to the PIzza for a laugh.

  70. Jamie Arriere says:

    A Dundee councillor, huh? Could this be the lady?

  71. HandandShrimp says:

    Yup that looks like the lady in question but she seems unremittingly white in that picture too.

  72. Munguin says:

    Stewart it may interest you to know that failed would be Dundee Councillor George McIrvine has been having an interesting exchange on his facebook page concerning you and this post.!/george.mcirvine. In which Vice Chair of Angus Labour John Ruddy describes you as “..a misogynist in any case – and considering he lives in Bath in Somerset, he’s a hypocrite as well.” So much for Better Together and us all living in one country. Considering that Mr Ruddy is from Devon I guess he is a hypocrite too, just in reverse!
    It may interest you to know that Mr McIrvine clearly thinks very highly of his would be ability as a Dundee City Councilor as he stood unsuccessfully in the Maryfield by-election in 2009 that handed control of Dundee City Council to the SNP. He stood again in the 2012 local elections in the same ward where Labour’s election literature “advised” their supporters to rank Mr McIrvine first and his running mate Georgia Cruickshank second so desperate were they for Mr M to get in. Unfortunately the Labour electors of Maryfield were not so convinced and Mr M only got 629 first preference votes to Ms Cruickshank’s 622. She did much better in the subsequent rounds and was duly elected. Oops!!
    The woman in the picture is, I believe, in fact that sole same Georgia Cruickshank, Labour Councillor for the Maryfield Ward (instead of Mr McIrvine). I’m assuming that she is the black English Councillor that Mr McIrvine is referring to and which your taking the piss out of has made him sick. Having spoken to her I was aware that she was a woman and I couldn’t place her accent but to find out she is also black….well blow me, she certainly doesn’t look it on her DDC photo;

  73. Jamie Arriere says:

    Well she’s black-haired at least. Maybe he only refers to people by their hair colour to avoid causing offence….lol

  74. Rod Mac says:

    During the Calman debacle and the HIGNFY episode re Scottish drunks were the unionists not telling us to get a sense of humour?
    Seems that it is only a one way humour like so many of their double standards

  75. Jiggsbro says:

    She’s a Labour councillor. I thought Labour had their own ‘No’ organisation?

  76. Hetty says:

    Crikey, looks like white is defo the new black then Rev? And er, Geordie’s, it’s always been a bit of a belief that they are actually not big on the ‘English’ identity thing. More Northern and verging on being nearly Scottish by proximity and such things, maybe even culturally. The old Northumbrian accent which I think may be lost,  sounds half Scottish half Geordie, I love to hear the mix, sorry!
    YEp news is short lived, but we gotta have some fun at the weekend, and this silly woman set herself up!  

  77. CameronB says:

    I think she might be described as mixed race, in polite society, but then I’m in my forties. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the almost Python-esque picture she presented in Dundee. Or should that be Milligan-esque. What are we going to do now…..

  78. Joybell says:

    @ Cameron B
    Ask for forgiveness (smiley face).

  79. scottish_skier says:

    I’m suddenly feeling great about my Scottish tan after a couple of weeks in Brittany.

  80. CameronB says:

    @ Joybell
    What, for forgetting my question marks all week? 🙂
    : plus ) gives you 🙂
    : plius ( gives you 🙁

  81. Munguin says:

    I’m wondering if the “John” that accuses you of being a bit rich for living in Bath is the same John that is an associate of George McIrvine……what do you think?

  82. Gordon Bain says:

    That Georgina is definitely the lady in question. I have a better picture taken just before she dived under the table. At one point she asked me why I appeared so angry. I told her I was angry because this matters! Really matters. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to forge a new positive future. Of course it matters! That’s when she told me to “fuck off”. Up with that I will not put and so I continued to seek answers to my questions. Then this other guy came along and said it was time for me to leave. I pointed out that he was soliciting signatures in MY public park and that perhaps it was they who should leave. They started packing up as I was walking over to the Yes stall.

    For the record – I only took pictures because she refused to give me her name. I thought that since she was asking me to sign up to her campaign the very least she could do was give me her name. She refused. She also failed to answer any of my questions. I certainly didn’t take her to be “black”, for what it’s worth. She was definitely a Geordie though. I’d also like to point out that she was NOT alone when I was talking to her. There was a young 16 year old Scot (of Asian descent, not that it should matter but it seems to to some) and an older bloke (perhaps mid-20’s). I was talking to all three and got no answers to my questions from any of them. Given the make up of those ‘hosts’ I’d say if anyone was playing the race card it was U-KOK. Now that I know that she is in fact a local councillor then I have even less respect for her not giving me her name. She works for me!

    Can I also add on a personal note that I take great exception to this race card thing. I couldn’t give a damn what colour anyone is! I freely admit I do have a problem when an English person tries to tell me we’re somehow uniquely incapable of running our own affairs. If you move to my country then you are duty-bound to put my country first! That means voting Yes next September.

    i really need to take some time out from all this. It’s doing my blood pressure no good at all.
    Hail Alba.

  83. KenC says:

    It does seem that ‘lonely lady’ did have some pals there though- they must have all been convincing other folk in the park when the photo was taken…

  84. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m wondering if the “John” that accuses you of being a bit rich for living in Bath is the same John that is an associate of George McIrvine……what do you think?”

    Yes, I’d have thought so. Mr Ruddy has a very consistent mode of operation – he likes to pop up in newspaper comment threads, say something untrue and then vanish before he can be held to account for it. I’d bet a modest sum of money that the story will be the same here.

  85. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “exchange on his facebook page concerning you and this post.”

    Yeah, I’ve been watching since this morning.

  86. Gordon Bain says:

    I’m sorry Rev, that last post I made was meant to be in four paragraphs. I was too slow to go back in and edit it. By the way, the text input box doesn’t play nice on an iPad.

  87. Morag says:

    So she’s a councillor.  Can’t they find actual volunteers?  Even here in Tweeddale, which is a bit on the Tory side, we can turn out enough ordinary Joes and Josephines to blitz a village in a couple of hours.  Actually, the guys boast of having leafleted every house in Innerleithen in less time than that.

    We’re currently arranging a presence at the Peeblesshire Show later in the month, in fact two presences as I’m being simultaneously solicited by the SNP and Yes Scotland about manning their stalls.  We’ll have a decent presence on both, and maybe only two people will be councillors.

  88. gemini says:

    Surely councillors telling members of the public to fuck off is some breach of conduct?? Anyone know? I would be looking to complain about it! 🙂

  89. craig m says:

     My first school was in Blackburn. I remember the frogs that spawned behind the flats and breaking into a bubblegum dispenser when I was 5 years old. I eventually persuaded my parents to move to the Highlands and haven’t been back since. Is it still there, the town I mean?

  90. The Man in the Jar says:

    We have the referendum in the bag now. Peter Capaldi is the new Doctor Who!

  91. NorthBrit says:

    It can’t be Ruddy.  The poster on this site said something that was actually true.

  92. twenty14 says:

    Sorry to be O/T Rev – but my feeling of Britishness and better togetherness has just ramped up a level – the new Dr Who is none other than a man who hails from our land Mr peter Capaldi ………..see we where all wrong ……..glowing with pride and looking for my bunting

  93. Marcia says:

    I thought it would be Johann to be the next Dr Who. I got that one wrong didn’t I.  Sometimes when I mention her name they say, Who?

  94. James Westland says:

    There is a serious couple of issues here. If she is a councillor, and as such an elected representative then she should be answering honest questions asked of her. Prefereably politely. Refused to give her name? Eh? A councillor’s face will be well known – how could she hide her identity?
    Secondly, she is supposedly representing a side in the debate – You would think that on a public stall, she would want to make as positive an impact as possible to convince people of her cause. 
    Hang on…… is she a secret entryist cybernat separatist?

  95. James Westland says:

    More O/T, but possible Britnat propaganda ahead:
    Spain warns ‘the party is over’ as Gibraltar row escalates

    Invasion? Task Force? Gotcha? Wall to wall butchers aprons? 

  96. NorthBrit says:

    The links to the twitter thing don’t seem to work for me – maybe because I’m not signed up.  
    Interested to see that the Sunday Herald’s political editor is communicating directly with SLab activists in their joint assault on LabourforIndy. 
    Is there such a thing as a Scottish journalist?  Or are they all propagandists?

    Bizarrely this has just cropped up on the egregious McIrvine’s twitter:
    I wonder if there’s any connection. Tell me he’s not actually a policeman…

  97. max says:

    The interesting thing is that this Labour councillor never indentified herself. 

  98. Ian Mackay says:

    @Tyran Love the penguin and the BT Stall! 
    Middle of nowhere? Well, it’s in Coats Land, Antarctica. Its completely appropriate for the BT Stall to be unwelcome, because that photograph was taken as part of the Scottish National Antarctic Expedition led by William Speirs Bruce [1902-4].

    The expedition came about as the Westminster Government and the Royal Geographic Society under Clements Markham refused funding and backing to Bruce.

    (For Markham only an Englishman would do. Under his watch no Jock would get near Antarctica. He also hated the Irishman Shackleton [who had to secure most of his funding in Scotland also]. His protege Scott was the right ilk and willing to follow his outdated views on manhauling etc. which were later to cost Scott his life.)

    Undeterred Bruce led a Scottish expedition and became a fervent Scottish nationalist. There’s no way that Bruce would have went anywhere near a Better Together stall! 🙂

  99. Gordon Bain says:

    I called the Gibraltar situation months ago. What’s the betting on a deal between the UK and Spain  regarding the interesting scenario of Scotland applying to remain in the EU at the same time as Spain try to ward off impending independence in Catalunya? Could a deal be struck there? Spain blocks Scotland in return for UK blocking Catalunya with Gibraltar as the sweetener?

  100. Dal Riata says:

    @Rev Su
    I would say 100%  that the “John” who posted above is John Ruddy. When I saw him mentioning you working from Bath I was sure that was him as I’ve seen him sneering at you for being a Scottish independence supporter who  – shock horror – doesn’t, for now, live in Scotland, on the Guardian’s CiF BTL comments. Munguin’s post, following, just confirmed my suspicions.
    Every time Severin Carrell, or whomever, comes out with yet another dishonest article about Scottish independence/Alex Salmond/etc. he is there supporting Better Together UKOK Project Fear with Blah! Blah! Ah, but Labour…Blah! Blah! He was especially vocal following Carrell’s latest Better Together smearstory-non-article about Labour for Independence.
    John Ruddy is old-school Labour-dinosaur-thinking  through-and-through. When he appears on CiF he gets shot down in flames every time, and deservedly so.

  101. HandandShrimp says:

    John is a card isn’t he? He pops up on the Grauniard from time to time says something contentious and legs it. I quite like him because it is always fun de-constructing his rascaliness and there is always so much to work with.
    I wonder if George failed to get elected because he is incapable of placing accents…Geordie = somewhere in Nigeria, Aberdonian somewhere in China etc., and consequently he baffled and dismayed the bejaysus out of the electorate.  

  102. commiecelt says:

    Sorry folks but I am a yes supporter check me out on the database.  The episode referred to here was contentious, I have heard other accounts from people i trust.    Can I say however it is playing extremely badly here in Lochee in the pubs and the posts here are not helping.  I know the councillor involved and she was correct not to give her name if she felt harassed or merely did not want to.   As for discussions of her colour, some of the comments here could be straight from UKIP.  

  103. NorthBrit says:

    @Gordon Bain
    It’s highly unlikely that England would choose to surrender another piece of territory once Scotland had voted Yes to assist in a probably futile attempt to obstruct Scotland’s EU membership, which if successful would damage the English economy.  The UK just wants to scare people into voting no by raising as much doubt as possible.
    Far more likely that Scotland trades support for Spain over Gibraltar in exchange for Spain being helpful over Europe.

  104. Bill C says:

    She can’t be a Cruickshank. We Cruickshank’s are all bald (me), or ex-gingers (my two sons,now bald), raving, swivel eyed, kilt wearing, woad painted, anti-everybody who is not Scottish, non swearing nationalists and you don’t want to meet us on a dark night.
    The Rev meant this as a bit of fun and he was spot on.  Too many folk too ready to jump on the political correctness bandwagon.  As a non swearing, bald, milk bottle white son of Jockland, get a FUCKING grip. It’s called taking the piss.

  105. Gordon Bain says:

    Fair enough, your second proposal sounds like fun.

  106. Currywurst says:

    “At one point she asked me why I appeared so angry. I told her I was angry because this matters!”
    So you admit you were acting in a way which made this woman feel you were “angry”.
    Did you shout? Threaten?

  107. NorthBrit says:

    Are you still trolling ineffectively?  Are you shouting while you post?  Threatening?
    In the nicest possible way, maybe you’d be more comfortable if you took the Curried Wurst out of your rear.  Happier.  Less potty.

  108. commiecelt says:

    Funny how my comment s still waiting moderation

  109. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Somebody mention John Ruddy?
    CameronB, I can do fun waste of time too 🙂

  110. Currywurst says:

    No, if I was shouting, I’d be posting in CAPITALS.
    I’m just wondering why this woman felt that she had to ask the poster why he “appeared so angry”.
    What was he doing and/or saying?

    ” I told her I was angry because this matters! ”

    And he admits he was acting in an obviously “angry” way.

    Frankly I’d much rather be on the side of the so-called “Project Fear” than on that of “Project Anger”.

    It’s a short step from anger to violence, isn’t it?

  111. muttley79 says:

    If anyone thinks John Ruddy is bad on Cif, then what do they make of Niclas?  He/she is a smear merchant, and is getting increasingly more abusive.

  112. naebd says:

    It’s a short step from anger to violence, isn’t it?
    Concern trolling.

  113. James Westland says:

    Only Gordon Bain can adequately explain what happened.
    But you mentioned: “It’s a short step from anger to violence, isn’t it?”
    Yes, it is,. And telling someone to “fuck off” (as this woman is accused of doing) is pretty angry. Violent language often leads on to violent action. And, as the OP posted in the original thread:  “Then the ‘muscle’ appeared and suggested I leave immediately”
    From these details, I know where the threat of potential violence lies. And its not with the nationalists.

  114. NorthBrit says:

    Your charming posts have no need of capitals.
    To borrow one of your phrases “So you admit” that you’re part of Project Fear.
    “I’m just wondering” whether the lady in question uses that “why so angry” gambit every time someone asks her a really difficult question like “What is your name?”.  Shortly before going into the shouting “Fuck” and diving under the table routine.

  115. Allan Petrie says:

    As someone who moved from the Better together campaign to the Yes Scotland campaign due to the negativity of the Better together argument I am disgusted at this attempt of humour, the comments relating to the picture refer to the individual being from northern England this makes you sound anti english and to refer to her as the lonely lady is disrespectful and personalising the argument.  This kind of politicking does not serve in anyone’s interest and brings the campaign and politics into disrepute.  I suggest that all involved from both sides of the debate concentrate on the real issues otherwise the only thing that will happen in 2014 is apathy with a very low turnout at the polls and big question marks over the validity of the result whatever it may be. 

  116. scottish_skier says:

    What interests me is what lies behind the general decrease in the standard of trolling over the last year or so. It’s really weak on both approach and content now. Far fewer doing it too.

    What happened to the clever trolls? There used to be some good ones. Even WoS now just gets the pants efforts.

  117. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “the comments relating to the picture refer to the individual being from northern England this makes you sound anti english and to refer to her as the lonely lady is disrespectful and personalising the argument”

    Och, don’t be ridiculous, Allan. One person who spoke to her remarked that she had a Geordie accent, which is mildly unusual in Dundee, but nobody said anything even remotely disrespectful about it. And I called her lonely because she was on her own in the original picture. It was a reference to the No campaign’s paucity of grassroots support, nothing whatsoever to do with the woman herself. I’m sure she has a full and rewarding social and family life.

  118. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Funny how my comment s still waiting moderation”

    Do you imagine I spent every single second of every day moderating comments? Call me a slacker if you will, but on a Sunday night I occasionally take an hour out to watch a TV programme, if that’s quite all right with you.

  119. scottish_skier says:

    CW: No, if I was shouting, I’d be posting in CAPITALS.

    There’s no need to shout man.

    Someone might think you threatening.

  120. NorthBrit says:

    @Allan Petrie
    Same journey.  But there is a difference between the sort of stuff you get from Alan Cochrane, Euan McColm and Magnus Gardham and Wings’ occasionally acerbic humour.
    I think the main point here is the continuing theme that BT is having trouble attracting many people to its “positive” campaign.  Perhaps unsurprising given that the order of the day is get UKOK out.

  121. Caroline Corfield says:

    you know anger is not the same as threatening violence don’t you? I was once sitting in the restraunt area of a gym club in Newcastle while a group of ladies talked on the phone to the manager of the establishment. She was angry, you could tell she was angry, and yet she was polite, she was rational and she was not threatening. She was merely asking why her wedding reception due in a matter of weeks had been cancelled and she had only just found out about it, yet the decision to refurbish the venue had been made weeks after her initial booking. The manger didn’t want to meet her. Meeting angry people isn’t nice because we all know what anger feels like, for the same reason we feel embarrassed for other people’s embarrassing situations. It’s called empathy. The reason people don’t like meeting folk who are angry with them is down to guilt, guilt that they are the reason for the anger. One is generally not angry with someone unless one holds them responsible in some way for the situation that caused the anger. If you aren’t feeling guilty about it then you can easily defuse the situation. To say “fuck off” in reply is I’m afraid, a subconscious admission that you do feel responsible in some way. Maybe you feel that way because you want the Labour party to once again stand for the things that the SNP and other pro-independence parties are standing for, but because that looks like the policies of pro-independence parties you cannot. Again the cognitive dissonance comes in to play. There are going to be a lot of ‘damaged’ people out there regardless of the outcome of the referendum because of the way some sectors ( mostly No groups) are behaving. 

  122. Marcia says:

    If I’m not mistaken welcome back to Allan Petrie my former SNP councillor. Glad to see you back.

  123. scottish_skier says:

     If you aren’t feeling guilty about it then you can easily defuse the situation. To say “fuck off” in reply is I’m afraid, a subconscious admission that you do feel responsible in some way.

    Yes, I’d agree. A form of projection.


  124. Allan Petrie says:

    Rev your patronising comments do no good for the campaign it does not matter what you think about your comments you have to be grown up and think what others will think when they read then and as a dundonian an English and especially a geordie accent at this time of year (being the holiday’s) is not an unusual sound.  If you want to attract people to Independence then get the message out about how it will benefit us all and stop these stupid we playschool tactics before you tar the whole yes campaign with them.

  125. Allan Petrie says:

    Hello Marcia i am back fighting for a yes vote for Independence but not the SNP.

  126. Richard McHarg says:

    Perhaps His Currywurstness would consider how many other people around the world have felt or are currently feeling threatened by the mere presence of UK Armed Forces operating for the benefit of Westminster’s establishment and their paymasters in the banks and large corporations?
    Now that is a threat worth worrying about.  Feeling proud?
    Since neither of us were present during the conversation with the councillor, we simply don’t know.

  127. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “your patronising comments”

    I said nothing patronising, I merely politely explained why you were mistaken. I suspect this may not be the website for you. 60,000 people a month seem to rather like the way we do things, evidently you don’t. Ah well, can’t win ’em all.

  128. Bill C says:

    Right this baldy heided, rantin, ravin, whiter than a “whiter shade of pale”  loon from Aberdeenshire has had enough and I’ve stopped swearing.  I repeat, the Rev was having a laugh, there was no intention to insult the wifie’s (I suppose that will get the sexists going now) race, accent, colour, personal relationships with other human beings or the fact she might actually be a CRUICKSHANK. Believe me I know how it feels to be saddled with that name, we don’t even have an ancient tartan to call oor ain! Time to lighten up folks.
    P.S. If she is a Cruickshank, the family will have a word.
    P.P.S. As for the trolls. Why bother? 

  129. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Question 3 on the BT Voter ID form
    Quote “We know that independence is an issue that crosses party boundaries. Can we ask how you generally vote at UK Parliament Elections & Scottish Parliament Elections” Unquote
    Seems a reasonable enough statement and a polite data gathering question.
    So if BT already know about cross party boundaries why are they so incensed about support for the Yes campaign from so many quarters.
    BT Ground Rules for Activists
    Give Respect – “People won’t always agree with us. Respect that people have different views. Share your views and invite them to share their perspective. Don’t ever be argumentative, antagnostic or aggressive.” Further on it states, “Don’t make personal attackes on anyone on the other side of the argument, regardless of how much you disagree with them.”
    It seems that Rob Murray BT [National Campaign Organiser – Grassroots] had a ‘deja vu’ moment

  130. HandandShrimp says:

    O/T but this is interesting
    Especially as we had someone trying to pour cold water on this very thing only a couple of days ago.

  131. david says:

    i think richard simpson is the only labour msp who might have enough about him to say things are dishonest in their camp and do something about it before its too late for anyone in the labour party to save their careers

  132. HandandShrimp says:

    Alas I think as we get closer to the day and especially if Yes continues to close the gap, the debate will get tetchy and very, very nippy.

  133. Elizabeth says:

    I see that Tam Dalyell has waded in. 🙂
    “In an interview with the Sunday Times, Mr Dalyell criticised the Better Together campaign, and says he thinks it is “fraudulent to give the impression that if there is a No vote Scotland will still get greater powers. The prospect of further powers is ridiculous.””

  134. Allan Petrie says:

    You may not have intended to be patronising, i however have my doubts as i believe you know exactly what you are doing and just because you have over 60,000 hits a month does not mean everyone supports what this site is doing even on the comments above it is clear that the better together members also hit the site and as comments are moderated only yourself knows what all the comments say, My point is clear if you want to have a laugh and joke at someone’s expence then you can do that in the pub with friends or on the phone not in the campaign for a yes vote many people will make up their mind on how they vote by the way the campaigns are conducted if we are seen to be no better than the BT side then I fear we will have more apathy and less votes at the polling station as many voters will think we are all the same and not worth voting for.  So come on everyone makes mistakes and wrong judgments lets get on with promoting the posative side of Independence we have nothing to fear from Better Together as our real arguments on the value and necessity of Scottish Independence will win the day negativity will just put people off voting altogether.  

  135. HandandShrimp says:

    That was what Gavin McCrone was saying the other day. He said there is nothing on the table and the very real prospect of the Scotland files being put back on the shelf following a No vote.
    Yes is our only option.

  136. Morag says:

    For goodness sake, Alan, the comments aren’t moderated as you should have realised by now.  Stu doesn’t have that sort of time on his hands.  Only the first comment from a new poster is moderated, just so Stu can check it’s not a spam-bot.  I don’t think he’s ever deleted a comment either.

    Stu was making that point that the blog is extremely popular. Nobody can please all of the people all of the time, and you have no right to demand that a popular organ change its style just because you don’t like it.

  137. The Man in the Jar says:

    What Morag said! And that goes for all the rest of the handwringers!

  138. Allan Petrie says:

    Morag if it was made clear that the comments on this site were not representative of the Yes Campaign then you would be right I would have no right to complain about its content.  however when it is being used by better together to discredit the yes campaign then i believe it is everyones right to make their views known about it.  I also know people who have had thier comments rejected I do not know why their may have been good reasons but sometimes it is better to publish then reply to them than censorship. and hits to a site does not prove it is a popular blog when we know it is being used by BT to brand the yes campaign as Anti English and negative.  I do not see what you have against positive campaigning.

  139. Bill C says:

    @Morag and The Man in the Jar – Hear, hear.

  140. Guy McV says:

    Brilliant. Class. Tears streaming down my face here.

  141. Gordon Bain says:

    @ Allan Petrie
    I’m not a campaigner, I am a voter. It’s for the campaigner seeking my autograph to answer my questions. You’re falling into their trap and playing by their rules. That’s your choice. I choose to confront misinformation and outright lies. And yes, when I’m treated with disrespect I can give it back too. But not on this occasion. I am all too aware of the mind games Unionists play and won’t fall into that trap, however tempting it might be. I and hundreds of others have tried to engage with Unionists off Facebook and we know what happens there. Banned for asking relatively simple questions. Therefore if these people are going to turn up at my local park I’m not going to miss the opportunity of engaging with them. If I, a humble labourer, can out-wit them then God help us all.
    Hail Alba.

  142. Morag says:

    This is my favourite place on the internet right now.  I coughed up a moderate chunk of cash to keep it going, so Stu could continue without having to worry where his next pot noodle was coming from.  It hits my wavelength perfectly.
    I like the intellectual level of the entire thing.  And it seems that sometimes results in people who are too damn dim to follow the discourse taking petty offence over imagined slights.  Well tough.  It’s a hard world out there.  For one thing, if the Yes campaign makes not offending people its main priority it will fail both in that attempt and in its main aim.  For another, the level of bile coming from the unionist contingent is hard to beat, so glass houses and stones and all that.
    And if anyone is offended by the blog, doesn’t find it their sort of thing, then they are entirely free to get the hell out and go read NNS instead.  Don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.  Don’t demand that others all conform to your prejudices.
    There are happy-clappy churches and then there’s Choral Evensong.  Alan is like the happy-clappy contingent trying to force the Choral Evensong choristers to learn the guitar, because they wouldn’t know a motet or a chorale prelude if it bit them on the ankle.

  143. Gordon Bain says:

    Again Mr Petrie, BT are playing you.

  144. Morag says:

    Morag if it was made clear that the comments on this site were not representative of the Yes Campaign then you would be right I would have no right to complain about its content.
    Sorry, did I miss the Yes Scotland logo somewhere on the page?  Did I miss the bit where it said nobody was allowed to post unless they were both a member of and posting on behalf of Yes Scotland?


  145. Bill C says:

    @Gordon Bain – That was some post, as the youngsters would say RESPECT!!!

  146. ianbrotherhood says:

    @ Allan Petrie-
    ‘…when it is being used by better together to discredit the yes campaign then i believe it is everyones right to make their views known about it.’
    Your argument rests on the premise that Better Together is a ‘creditable’ organisation.
    It isn’t.

  147. muttley79 says:

    @Allan Petrie
    Morag if it was made clear that the comments on this site were not representative of the Yes Campaign then you would be right I would have no right to complain about its content.  however when it is being used by better together to discredit the yes campaign then i believe it is everyones right to make their views known about it.  I also know people who have had thier comments rejected I do not know why their may have been good reasons but sometimes it is better to publish then reply to them than censorship. and hits to a site does not prove it is a popular blog when we know it is being used by BT to brand the yes campaign as Anti English and negative.  I do not see what you have against positive campaign.
    I am afraid you are overreacting to what I think was meant to be light hearted article. More to the point, why are you so worried about what the No campaign say? 

  148. Allan Petrie says:

    Firstly Gordon you say you are not a campaigner yet you took a picture of an issue you did not believe in and posted it on a campaigning page that you do believe in that sounds like campaigning to me, secondly you say these people turning up at your local park it is infact the city of dundee’s park open to all the public and they are just as entitled to be there as we are you do not have to stoop to their level of negativity to let the voters know their arguments are based on misinformation you just have to let them read their material and put across our vision and benefits of Independence.  As for rules I am not playing by any I am campaigning the way the public expect campaigns to be run with posative arguments and facts that show the lies of the BT campaign.

  149. HandandShrimp says:

    BT already hate this site with a vengeance. The photo shopping of a BT worker and Labour councillor onto derelict sites in Scotland makes a poignant point regarding what exactly BT means. The lady is a politician, no different from any other. Politicians get spoofed in photos all the time. Your point is a fair one in relation to civilians.
    The ideal music to back this slide show would be the Proclaimers Letter from America.

  150. Albert Herring says:

    UKOK, therefore all the derelict Scottish backdrops are by definition OK.

  151. Allan Petrie says:

    You all underestimate the Better Together campaign and you do this at your peril it is true they will not win this campaign but they will use the material on this site and others like it to make sure you lose it for the yes side.  whether you intend it or not many of the comments come across as neo nationalistic and closed minds and that does not win hearts and minds of the electorate.

  152. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I also know people who have had thier comments rejected”

    No you don’t. I’ve banned about three people in the site’s entire history, and every one of them was warned several times beforehand about exactly what was unacceptable. We don’t censor comments here. The first one gets moderated and after that they’re published automatically. Since someone appears to know you I won’t assume you’re a troll, but if you come here and tell lies you won’t last long.

    This site is not affiliated with Yes Scotland, but if “Better Together” are whining about it, great, because that means they’re scared. We’re not here to make friends with them. They’re running a nasty smear-based campaign and if you want to take their side then once again I respectfully suggest that you go and find another website more suited to your tastes. Not everyone is the same as you, and I don’t see any chains holding you down.

  153. Adrian B says:

    @Allan Petrie,
    You are clearly not used to the boots on the ground method of getting things done and of deflecting utter crap from opponents. Perhaps you might be better suited here :

    Good Luck

  154. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “whether you intend it or not many of the comments come across as neo nationalistic and closed minds and that does not win hearts and minds of the electorate”

    I don’t even know what “neo nationalistic” means, but let’s do everyone a favour and cut this short: you’ve made your point, I disagree, and I’ll continue to run the site the way I see fit. Your opinion is noted. Now give it a rest, or my patience will rapidly become exhausted. We passed ten million lifetime pageviews today, and I’m not in the mood for having someone piss on it because they’re worried we might be upsetting “Better Together” too much.

  155. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Allan Petrie-
    ‘You all underestimate the Better Together campaign and you do this at your peril…’
    There are regular posters on this site from all parties, and none, representing many different people with an interest in this referendum.
    And it’s one thing to underestimate the British State, but ‘Better Together’ deserves no respect whatsoever. The two are not easily confused.
    I suggest you familiarise yourself with this site before referring to ‘all’ as if you’re some deus ex machina. You could do worse than start by having a look in Quarantine, where ‘banned’ comments are stored.

  156. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Allan Petrie, top right of this page where it says About will take you to the page that clearly states the house rules.

    Now I will hold up my hands and openly confess I had never heard of you before on the political scene in Scotland [Dundee East] but that is down to my own parochial failings. I guess Marcia’s comment made me more intrigued to find out more.

    I see that you have had problems in the past with alleged moderation and/or missing blogs [Munguin 2011] but I hope that was purely technical.

    So can you tell us all how you are involved in the Yes campaign, apart from online blogs, and if you need help, then how can any of us assist you. Somebody with your extensive political experience with canvassing must have some good advice.

  157. Indy_Scot says:

    You all underestimate the Better Together campaign

    Eh, no I don’t, I think it’s more likely the case that you overestimate it.

  158. Allan Petrie says:

    Rev i have been told by a friend that they have tried to post twice on here and neither comment has appeared so do not call me a liar and do not ever threaten me unless it is to my face,  and adrian I have been doorstep campaigning for over 20 years i was a member of the Snp in dundee canvassing areas many people would not go into I also single handedly took the deputy lord provost of Dundee’s seat off her in 1999 even though her vote increased i increased the snp vote from just under 300 to over 900 so i am well aware of boots on the ground campaigning I am also very well aware of negativity putting people off voting I am still wondering why you all disagree with posative campaigning.

  159. Morag says:

    Do be careful.  All that straw must be a fire hazard.

  160. Braco says:

    Allan vs Morag,
    Morag, morag, morag………..!
    (I am on your side Morag, though you clearly do not need any help!) Mostenjoyablebigsmile

  161. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Rev i have been told by a friend that they have tried to post twice on here and neither comment has appeared”

    If people have had a comment not appear they should use the contact form and ask why, in case the automatic spam filter has taken offence at it for some reason. It happens sometimes. I’m fairly sure I didn’t threaten you either, but anyone whose presence here is purely disruptive is not welcome, and right now that’s you. Consider that an official warning.

  162. Indy_Scot says:

    I don’t disagree with positive campaigning, but I do disagree with bad grammar and crap spelling.

  163. Allan Petrie says:

    Rev you either do not understand one thing i have said or you are deliberately misreading it I could not give a damn what Better Together think or say I am however concerned about them using this type of material to undermine the yes campaign.

  164. Indy_Scot says:

    Gonna stop using “i” instead of “I”, it’s driving me nuts.

  165. Allan Petrie says:

    Rev you can stuff this site you are not representative of the Yes campaign you are negative and disruptive to the cause of Independence and I will be spreading that through any means i can you might be able to censor this site but that is all you can do i will use other sites and other forms of media.  You are a disgrace to the cause and an asset to better together.

  166. Morag says:

    Don’t let the door hit you….

  167. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Rev you can stuff this site you are not representative of the Yes campaign you are negative and disruptive to the cause of Independence and I will be spreading that through any means i can you might be able to censor this site but that is all you can do i will use other sites and other forms of media. You are a disgrace to the cause and an asset to better together.”

    Jolly good. Cheerio.

  168. Morag says:

    Does that make it four?

  169. The Man in the Jar says:

    Feck is he related to norsewarrior?

  170. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Here’s Allan, if anyone’s curious:

  171. ianbrotherhood says:

    Oh dear.
    ‘Ow sad.
    Never mind…

  172. The Man in the Jar says:

    Well that livened up a Sunday night!

  173. Morag says:

    Here’s Allan, if anyone’s curious:
    That has got to be the crappiest web page I’ve seen since the Time Cube.  And his photie looks pretty far up itself too.  Dearie, dearie me.

  174. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Wow that was a quick exit.
    @ HandandShrimp – You were right to point out to me tetchy and very nippy with more to come.

  175. Braco says:

    Allan Petrie,
    did you not read what Morag wrote about what this site is and what it means to the readership and the posters who help, everyday, to form it into what it is?
    I am sure you are sincere in your fears and worries however you are not any more entitled to direct this site than any other voice on here is. Especially as you are so wrong in your sincerely held views about this site, the motivations of those that post here and it’s effect on the campaign for an Independent Scotland.
    I would advise that you find a less intellectually combatative site to frequent. Somewhere that pretends this thing will be decided by some political Marquis of Queensbury rules. I think your professional politicians pants are showing.

  176. The Man in the Jar says:

    And just as my respect for Dundee was rising to! 😉

  177. Bill C says:

    Just had a look at the Rev’s link to our companion for the evening and again I ask of these people: Why bother?

  178. Braco says:

    I type so slowly that I have gone and missed him!

    What a waste of time..

  179. DonnyWho says:

    O/T but in the times tam dayell say that the way to stop the nats is to disolve the Scottish parl

  180. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Does that make it four?”

    It does.

  181. velofello says:

    A Morag: “A motet or a chorale prelude” Jeez Morag, I had to look up the dictionary for motet. And why disparage the guitar? It’s a a damn sight harder to play melody, with chords, than the recorder.
    Excellent article and debate from contributors.

  182. ianbrotherhood says:

    It’s like when you’re doing a painstaking job, and you open the door for some fresh air, and a big fly comes in. 
    Why are they always there? Are they actually waiting for you to open the door? Why? What is it that they want? What are they hoping for? You leave the door open for them to go back out, but they don’t.
    So, eventually, there’s no option, and that’s when you remember – you stopped buying newspapers years ago…

  183. Munguin says:

    That wouldn’t be the same Allan Petrie that started off in the SNP as a councillor, was deselected. Next popped up helping Labour’s Ian Luke with his election campaign, then proposed to form his own party(“I Vote” I think it was). And was last seen (by me) at a hustings standing for the Lib Dems? Talk about getting round! Where next? Only a Tory hat he’s not tried on yet! So little surprise to learn that he started with Better Together and moved on to “Yes”. Kind of suggests that if he is still in politics its nothing to do with conviction!

  184. Barontorc says:

    The man’s acting like an in-your-face carpetbagger. Where to go from here?

  185. Jammach says:

    Crikey, you go away for the evening for a wee swallay and some gabbing with some friends … And you miss all the fun! Bummer.

  186. Mosstrooper says:

    Are we sure it’s Alan Petrie and not Alan Partridge?

  187. Dcanmore says:

    Excellent Rev. I’m sure ‘Abandoned Scotland’ could do a video on the BT stall… chuckle 🙂

  188. Famous15 says:

    Soooo….Alan Petrie is really a Lib Dem…as my granny used to say..more to be pitied than laughed at!  

  189. Training Day says:

    @Allan Petrie
    Finnegan’s Wake needs a rewrite.  Up for it?

  190. joe kane says:

    Urban Dictionary definitions of “Concern Troll” –  

  191. BobW says:

    Is this the Allan Petrie who has flounced of in the huff?

    Let me first say, that I am not now and never have been affiliated to any political party, but am struck by this gentleman’s appearance and subsequent comments, in a thread, which is in my view, a bit of harmless (I assume, no one was injured in the photo-shopping of the pictures) fun.

    Politicians of all parties are, or should be, lampooned on a regular basis.

    To conflate this thread and the comments within as being detrimental to the Yes campaign, because BT might/will/could/maybe use it against them, highlights the lack of substance in the BT campaign, thus far. All their arguments so far have been of that form – something might/could/maybe (note I left out will) happen, to Scots and Scotland if we vote Yes. Rather than providing any substantial positives why any resident of Scotland should vote to retain the status quo. 

    He then compounds this by attacking the site/ Rev Stu, then making the claim that ‘you all under-estimate BT at your peril‘. I infer from this that he believes that he alone of all the posters on this article, is the only one with the intellect to comprehend their (BT’s) true threat. I find that comment more insulting than much of the bile which pours forth from BT supporters on facebook and twitter. It indicates an arrogance of thought, which is, to me, quite astonishing. It’s an attitude which, when exhibited by politicians causes my hackles to rise – don’t you worry your little head, I understand/ know more/ better than you. This country has seen enough of that type of attitude and hopefully after a successful Yes vote in the referendum, we will all see much less.

    PS Mr Petrie it’s positive, not posative

  192. joe kane says:

    Good quote in Wiki about concern trolls –
    “I agree with your ends but not your means”. 

  193. Jamie Arriere says:

    I wonder how many of the Rev’s posts this guy Allan Petrie has read? You know the ones where he carefully skillfully and forensically dismantles the arguments for staying in the union put forward by BT without being abusive (which is what I thought politics was all about). I know I read dozens before I even thought of commenting.
    I suspect he could start an argument in an empty room. Let him start his own blog full of positivity and see how his engaging style gets on. (Oh dear, am I being patronising?)

  194. Iain says:

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell
    ‘Here’s Allan, if anyone’s curious:

    So, not a mention of supporting the Yes campaign, a few digs at the SNP and a proud boast about removing ‘a Government from Westminster that not only held parliament and the country in contempt by going to an illegal war based on lies, but also removed so many freedoms from the citizens of our country with their big brother policies.’ Your average duplicitous, self-serving Scottish LD guff in other words.

    I wonder how Mr Petrie would come across if he was against Yes, and would I be able to tell the difference?

  195. Gordon Bain says:

    @ Allan Petrie
    My photographs of what went down on Saturday are not online anywhere. The photograph used for this article was not taken by me. I clearly stated that when I attended the UKOK stall there were initially three hosts and eventually four so I don’t appreciate the inference that it was I who was being aggressive. As for what BT will use against us – where have you been? They’ll make it up anyway! I think if this site contributes anything to the debate it’s a refreshing honesty and forthrightness which is all too rare in the overall debate thus far, from both sides. It was not anyone here who introduced race, for instance. You get my drift? I have not read anything on this site which is dishonest or deceitful. Ever.
    Mr Petrie, where do you go for truth?

  196. Geoff Huijer says:

    Stephen Fry on being ‘offended’….

  197. Morag says:

    And why disparage the guitar? It’s a a damn sight harder to play melody, with chords, than the recorder.
    Totally agree.  I wasn’t disparaging the guitar as an instrument, I was diparaging the way it’s used by happy-clappy ministers.  If I’d been taking the metaphor further, I’d have remarked that the happy-clappy evangelist trying to make the choristers take up the guitar was doing do without realising they were already expert flamenco players.

    PS. Wanna see the photos of the lute tutor at the summer school I was at last week jamming it up on the guitar in the jazz group in the bar on Friday evening?

  198. Dal Riata says:

    Way to go to win an argument, Mr. Petrie, way to go! If anyone asks, ‘What’s a Concern Troll?’, they can now quote you and your example of said behaviour on this thread. Excellent! Now you can add that to your CV: Concern Troll – Yipee!

    With friends like these….!

  199. Dal Riata says:

    And anyway, Tethered Together are a vile, negative, do-you-down-Scotland organisation; they have nothing – nothing – to offer the people of Scotland.
    If there was a ‘positive case for the  Union’ we’d have had it blaring out of every orifice that the  MSM has from day one, continuing until 18.09.14. There is no ‘positive case for the Union’, that is why they skweam and skweam about anything they can find on pro-independence sites to make false accusations which are, then, disgracefully, given credence by the MSM, who will assist Tethered Together come what may.
    That’s democracy for you, UK 2013-style. Not a bonny thing at all.

  200. Max says:

    Allan Petrie on Civil Rights, “We will be strong in defence of freedom. The Government believes that the British state has become too authoritarian, and that over the past decade it has abused and eroded fundamental human freedoms and historic civil liberties. We need to restore the rights of individuals in the face of encroaching state power, in keeping with Britain’s tradition of freedom and fairness.”
    Of course if you are Scottish and believe in independence you have no rights at all. The rights of individuals in that sense are not applicable according to Mr Petrie. 

  201. Heather McLean says:

    Who’d have imagined that one simple photograph could have cause such a stushie? ????

  202. velofello says:

    @ Morag: just a gentle tease. Whatever the instrument it’s the level of expression by the player that counts. Accoustic guitar strummers just don’t vibe with me.Yes please to the photos.

  203. Morag says:

    The funny thing was, I’d been thinking the same thing before you posted that, then I thought, well the choristers would be expert classical and flamenco guitarists, wouldn’t they?
    The funny bit about the lutenist’s picture is that he is wearing the identical serious expression and sitting in exactly the same position when playing jazz guitar as when playing courtly lute songs.

  204. Tris says:

    Archie…(not Erchie) 11.29
    I thought I should clarify that when Allan Petrie had (alleged) problems posting on Munguin’s Republic a couple of years ago, this was not due to any censorship on my part.
    I have only once censored a comment on Munguin’s Republic in nearly four years. That was from someone else and the reason I did it was that the post was full of gratuitous swearing, clearly posted by someone who was rat arsed at the time of posting. It made no sense at all and was offensive.

  205. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    It wisnae me, that time anyway.

  206. Vronsky says:

    Here’s Rab McKillop playing a Matt Seattle bagpipe tune on lute.  I’ve arranged it for classical guitar and I must record it some time – as you’d expect my version’s the best. 

  207. MajorBloodnok says:

    On the subject of Rob MacKillop, here’s his rendition of Manuel de Falla’s Cancion del Fuego Fatuo (from El Amor Brujo).  Reminds me of sitting in the Generalife watching the swifts when I was living in Granada a few decades ago….

  208. Aln Harper says:

    Having today been made aware of the existence of WOS thanks to the Courier (and their ‘story’), thought I’d inform you that your readership has increased – again!
    Looks like you’ve now converted someone else too 😉
    Right, I have much reading to catch up on

  209. Morag says:

    Hi Aln!  I thought anyone actually reading this thread wouldn’t get the impression the Courier seems to be trying to convey!

    I feel slightly wrong about my earlier post saying that I thought if Mrs. Cruikshank had travelled from England to Dundee to campaign in a referendum she doesn’t have a vote in, that wasn’t legitimate.  (Of course we now know she didn’t do that and that she is genuinely a resident of Dundee.)

    Stu is a resident of Bath and he’s doing what he can for the Yes campaign.  Some people have said that’s illegitimate, as he doesn’t live in Scotland and doesn’t have a vote.  If we back what Stu’s doing, then are we in a position to complain if people come from England to push the BT line?

    I genuinely don’t know the answer to that.  It seems entirely legitimate when Stu does it because he is as Scots as I am (I’ve heard that man speak!).  He just hasn’t made the Home Run yet.  (Do I gather Lallands Pear Worrier has, now?)  But it’s a tricky point.  I still wouldn’t feel happy with the idea of “rent-a-body” campaigners being bussed up from England by the unionist parties to make up for them not being able to get Scottish boots on the ground.

    But since the lady in question lives in Scotland, the point doesn’t arise, so I think we can leave it for this thread.

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