This doesn’t seem to be an answer
But hey, at least we finally cleared up whether Labour like the SNP or not.
Dear Mr […]
Thank you for the letter, the text of which you copied from wingsoverscotland.com.
I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers: it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK and the EU.
In the event of Scottish voters rejecting independence, there will no doubt be an extended debate about the future of devolution. While I understand why some are fixated on tax raising powers the SNP Government, at least, seems to consider such matters as irrelevant, since it has declined to use the tax varying powers Holyrood has had since 1999.
The sad fact is that those of a nationalist bent will view any devolution settlement short of full independence as unsatisfactory. It is of absolutely no surprise therefore that some supporters of the Yes campaign are unhappy with the devolution commission’s proposals.
Best wishes.
Tom Harris MP
But still, it seems to us that constituents are entitled to a somewhat better response to a set of legitimate, clear questions than a load of Nat-bashing snark from their elected representative. We’ll keep you updated with any other replies we hear about.
…”So just go away nasty nats”…etc, etc,etc.
Wouldn’t it be a lot easier if MPs simply answered the questions sent by their electorate?
Tom Harris MP doesn’t seem to grasp the concept of elected representatives.
hmm separating from the EU? and he glosses over the fact that if the Government had used the tax varying powers any revenue raised would have been deducted from the block grant leaving them right back at square one. What politician would want to do that?
Appalling, but not unexpected. The contempt Labour representatives have for their constituents (whether they voted Labour or not) has always been palpable. And, when we look at the recent by-elections in Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath, can anyone really blame the likes of Harris for thinking they can say as they please?
However, in his reply Harris seems sure that a Yes vote in September will expel Scotland from the EU. Perhaps a follow-up query could ask him to outline the process for Scotland’s expulsion?
I’m a bit confused…separate from the UK AND the EU?
Are the political parties not supposed to be winning our votes with promises of jam tomorrow. Tell him you don’t recognize the jar placed in front of you as food and you would like confirmation that eating it won’t have you up all night with diarrhoea.
I actually consider that a pretty honest answer. It explains why Johann’s Red Paper is such a mess. MPs like Harris do not want more devolution and if they can they will kick it into the long grass for as long as possible. He is absolutely right, Sept 18th is not a choice between independence and Devo Max it is a choice between independence and the status quo and the latter we know is not enough. Ergo Yes is the only sensible choice.
Not much of a tax power when you can only raise it which Mr. Harris conveniently didn’t remind us about.
@ domhnall dods
“if the Government had used the tax varying powers any revenue raised would have been deducted from the block grant leaving them right back at square one.”
Anyone got a link to this explained? I thought this was how this particular power was supposed to work, but a colleague disagrees.
Wait a minute. SNP haven’t been the government since 1999, so obviously Labour didn’t use tax varying powers either!
I demand to know why THEY didn’t…
It seems that they are giving everyone the same cut and paste email (similar to what we have done), a very poor response for some pressing questions
I am pretty certain that will be the corporate answer spewed out of the SLAB machine.
They JUST DON’T GET IT do they?
If they are going to spend two whole years producing a pile of steaming keich, the least they can do is poke it with a stick and see what’s underneath.
The great unwashed aren’t complete simpletons and recognise BS when they see/hear it. Our elected REPRESENTATIVES are doing a damn fine job of displaying their arrogance and complete lack of respect for the people who pay their salaries and expenses.
I just hope there aren’t too many folks out there going a funny colour because they’re still holding the breath.
arrrgghhhhh!
So, he doesn’t know then.
Yeah those tax varying powers…
… Just how often did Labour or the Libdems exercise them between 99 and 07?
Well that was just rude (and completely incorrect re EU comments). And still no answers obviously. And why no answers?? he has none that would be acceptable. Rude rude rude little man. Sorry if I sound like an old school mistress, I can’t help it, he is just rude.
I was almost typing “Least he replied!” considering the blank response from many other Labour representatives but then I realised I should say “He replied least”
Labour representatives…Representing Labour. End of.
I would like to point out that Labour never used the tax powers either. I am an ex Labour Party Member and the only thing that would stop me voting yes is if Scotland were given full Federal powers and full autonomy that goes with it. We could be like a mini EU but as the Tory’s keep saying “In the EU but not run by the EU” so it would be In the UK but not run by the UK.
“separate from the UK and the EU”
Bugger me, more out of touch than I realised. Fair enough, I’m English and have been living abroad until last year, but boy have I gotten this all arse over tit.
We’re voting on conscious separation from the UK and the EU?
A big boy called Alex did it and ran away
Are you sure about this? I don’t think that’s right. Otherwise, what would have been the point of the SNP’s “a penny for Scotland” campaign slogan? I thought the point was that the power was useless because it would have cost too much to implement, and also because it hit the ordinary Joe with no way of raising the higher rate.
I’m genuinely unsure though and I’d welcome enlightenment. Actually I’d welcome an authoritative article on the subject of tax-raising powers and the block grant.
Tom Harris MP, isn’t he the no-mark who thought it would be considered acceptable to portray Alex Salmond as Hitler in a spoof video. If I recall, after a storm of complaints he then withdrew not only the tasteless video, but also himself from the leadership contest of the North British Labour Holyrood Desk-Thumpers Branch?
Frankly I’m surprised he bothered to reply at all, even if only to have yet another pop at the hated SNP. Mind you, he did give Wings a mention, so if nothing else he did at least acknowledge your website’s existence in his non-reply, RevStu. I doubt if many of his Labour colleagues will do that!
Well, at least he got the ball rolling.
When all of the replies are assembled it should make a fascinating, albeit slender read, and be an historical document of some value.
(Just struck me there – this is all a wee bit reminiscent of the Panini albums, waiting to see which ones you’ll get in the next packet, whether you’ll be left with more dodgy doublers you hope to swap in school…‘Ach, bummer, I’ve already got five of him…’
If it had been a cut-and-paste response that was helpful, informative and answered the questions, that would have been entirely appropriate. But it’s not.
It’s obvious these guys don’t understand the devo-nano proposals and don’t want to. To them, they’re nothing but a campaigning tool to try to sucker people into voting No. The people who have emailed are obviously not going to be suckered into voting No, so they’re just an annoyance.
Anyone with half a brain should have been able to come up with an answer that addressed the questions though, so I assume this is the response that will be coming from those with less than half a brain. Producing a reply that appears to address the questions would take longer and might involve consulting colleagues and advisors. Maybe such a response is in preparation.
:tumbleweed:
I’m a bit confused…. I thought I was going to be voting to be a sovereign nation free from Westminster control. Nobody told me I was voting “whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK and the EU”.
I don’t care if I’m better off or not. I want to be a neighbour (and a friend) rather than a subjugated citizen without an identity, a voice or proper representation in parliament.
‘In the event of Scottish voters rejecting independence, there will no doubt be an extended debate about the future of devolution.’
So what precisely was the point of their devolution commission’s report?
Tom Harris walks into the House of Commons bar.
The barman says “What you having?”
Harris tells the bar manager that Stewart Hosie was wearing brown shoes with a black suit the previous Friday.
The barman resigns.
I wonder if there is any point in asking Labour questions about their policies. They don’t know the answers; they can hardly share them with us.
“Thank you for the letter, the text of which you copied from wingsoverscotland.com.”
This would be so much better if he had been able to keep his annoyance in check and start with simply “Thank you for the letter.” This just looks petulant.
@proudscot
As one of the recipients of Tom Harris’ reply, I think his reference to Wings was to show
A: Labour is “on to” us
B: Labour think I (and others) cant think for ourselves**
Least I think thats what Stu said
**Oh the irony in that statement
“In the event of Scottish voters rejecting independence, there will no doubt be an extended debate about the future of devolution.”
Just as, after the A/V referendum, the discussion about Electoral Reform continued.
Just as.
Whatever you think (or don’t) of Tom Harris, he’s not just the usual cannon fodder. I took that ‘no doubt there will be an extended debate’ as a nice little hint to WoS readers as to what he thinks of the current leadership.
Desimond, I think you’re right. However, it just shows what dim bulbs they are. I mean, nobody imagined for five seconds that they wouldn’t know what triggered the emails. They’re just digging themselves in even deeper.
Re the tax varying powers.If the rate was lowered,say 1p,then the Barnett formula would’ve been adjusted accordingly down.HM treasury doesn’t get the cash then neither would we.
If I remember right.
Whoever received this should write back pointing out that Labour were in charge from 1999 to 2007, not the SNP.
Can Mr. Harris explain why Labour didn’t use the tax raising powers?
How about a petition to try and shame them into a proper reply? Send it to them and the MSM. A En masse request !
wonder how many scotish labour spivs wake up in a cold sweat having nightmares about wings over scotland, keep at them stu, they deserve to be put out of existence.
Ooh did that come by email? I was told I would only get a reply from Tom Harris by letter because that is how he ‘chose’s to run is office’. Harrumph!
The best bit is that having given ANY kind of response, our lords and masters can now be drawn into conversation. No more template letters! Free and frank conversations with the Scottish people! Maybe start by asking why the assumption of nationalism. Why not help us understand how Labour’s proposals will actually improve lives in Scotland? We accept that this is just one party’s proposal, but since a majority of Scots still vote Labour at Scottish elections, isn’t it right that we should understand how they hope to change our constitution?
The answers are… oh look, a squirrel! I can’t believe Tom Harris lost out to Johann Lamont, he is most definitely Scottish Labour leadership material.
[September 2011…]
“We are not taken seriously today. We are not saying anything that’s relevant. The only thing keeping us in contention is that all the alternatives are crap. That’s not much of a standard to go by: Vote for Labour because everyone else is crap.”
He said of the leadership contest: “This is a life-or-death election for us. I think it’s quite conceivable the [Scottish] Labour Party could stop being relevant in the next few years.”
Tick tock, Scottish Labour. Tick tock.
“it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate”
Gives away his dosh orientated thinking – ‘better off’ – subliminally finacially better off, I suspect he means.
Well no, it’s about whether we Scots running Scotland for ourselves can make build a more just and equal society.
We’ve tried London rule. We’ve tried grace and favour devolved from London limited powers rule. Time to move forward.
At least we know he is a regular reader of Wings Over Scotland !
That is an awfully long branch that Tom Harris has climbed along. What will be his excuse when EU entry is achieved without much difficulty and without us having to turf out all EU citizens including 700K English, 50K Welsh etc?
Same goes for the currency. Whether or not Westminster types continue with their embargo on refusing a CU, Scotland will be just fine.We have more options than them and that is what they don’t seem to realise. For Scottish MPs the dole queue beckons. People like Danny Alexander will be run out of town if my sense of the political vibes around me are anything to go by.
On the basis of this article, we should perhaps all be checking our junk mail folders then, as that would seem to be the most appropriate destination for our replies!
Dear Mr Harris
Thank you for your response, we’ll just mark you down as a ‘Don’t Know’, shall we?
yours
The people of Scotland
I think they know the DevoNano proposals are half-arsed, and will probably not even bother to answer the questions, especially since we are a coordinated group.
A cut and paste response from the their Devo Commission seems beyond them.
OT BBC seem to be flying another anti-indy kite by denying the EU Pensions Directive change will happen. Have scanned the EC press releases and can only find a FAQ on the proposed changes, no cancelling of them. Hmmmmm
link to bbc.co.uk
link to europa.eu
A serious* question for all you lucky voters living in Glasgow South; who do you think would serve you best as your MP?
A) Tom Harris
B) Keith Harris
C) Orville
D) Marcel Marceau
*levels of seriousness may fall as well as rise in an independent Scotland.
What a profoundly unpleasant individual Tom Harris is.
Tom Harris wrote: “While I understand why some are fixated on tax raising powers the SNP Government, at least, seems to consider such matters as irrelevant, since it has declined to use the tax varying powers Holyrood has had since 1999.”
Has Harris forgotten that for eight of those years from 1999 his own party were running the show and also declined to use the said tax varying powers. Labour, it seems, must also have considered such matters irrelevant.
As a ps, anyone had a response from Willie Young (who, as a member of the “Devolution Commission” should presumably understand its proposals)?
Willie? Hello? Are you reading this?
“Has Harris forgotten that for eight of those years from 1999 his own party were running the show”
no, he is deliberately misleading you.
Jamie Arriere @ 5.16
Good spot have you contacted BBC about this before the story gains more traction?
And has anyone seen any press / TV coverage of Labour MPs voting for more Tory welfare cuts at Westminster last night?
I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers: it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK and the EU.
Forgive me if I’m being obtuse, but is that not an actual lie on Mr. Harris’ part?
“Separate from the UK” is bad enough – it makes no sense for the same reason a spouse leaving doesn’t mean they’re “separate from the marriage” – but the EU? That’s nowhere on the referendum ballot, and it is incredibly disingenuous of Harris to imply otherwise to any of his constituents, even those of a “nationalist bent.”
I am incredibly angry with this response.
David says
“who do you think would serve you best as your MP?”
Is the answer c Orville
as he is the only one with WINGS?
It would have been better if he had let Orville reply.
Does Tom Harris think those seeking independence are a “fringe group”?
I re-phrase that – Does Tom Harris think…?
A briefing paper is so much easier than thinking.
John
Beat me to it.
Bah.
Linda’s Back,
It seems a very nebulous report with no source quoted at the Commission, and yet it quotes a Scottish Government spokeswoman, again no name, but it refers to an EC announcement. I’ll keep scanning their press releases.
That was one of the first things I noticed too was wghen are we to separate from the EU ?
I was in the hospital last week, did I miss some major announcement or something
Can someone fill me in on anything important I might have missed ???
If they are going to write a stock response (is that the right term) to send out to everyone, and it looks like they are expecting the majority of the letters/emails sent in to be lifted from the Wings site then why not just answer all the questions once and then send that out as their standard reply??
Oh aye! I see the problem with that now. Silly me.
Seems to me there’s a danger of playing along with the “oh look a squirrel” nature of that reply. The last thing anyone should be doing in my opinion is engaging in a dialogue about the irrelevancies in the email.
The original emails were asking for specific information. It has not been provided. Rather than getting into a pointless argument about the EU or the use of the 3p rate, keep pressing for the original questions to be answered.
Dear Mr Harris
It hardly matters where the questions came from as a constituent I would like answers to those questions. If you’re unable to answer the questions please state so clearly, however if you are simply refusing to answer the questions because of their origin I feel you are being rather petty. Scotland’s future is important to me and I hope to you, I think a full explanation of labours offer in terms of devolution is the least I can expect if you wish me to support you with a no vote.
Yours a constituent.
Wish he was my MP.
Jeez, what a creep. Here’s my reply:
Dear Mr Harris
Thanks for your reply, as I wasn’t expecting one.
First, I did obtain the text of my letter from Wings Over Scotland. So what? Who cares about that, apart from you it seems? I can’t help infer from that that you think I’m too stupid to write one of my own. It saddens me that you, my elected representative, thinks that, but be assured, its questions and concerns are mine also.
Second, you can point out anything you like, as long as you answer my questions about your party’s taxation proposals for my country. I look forward to your next letter full of answers.
Third, I don’t care that no Scottish government has ever used the tax varying powers. Why you single out SNP governments is a puzzle to me. Perhaps, in addition to your assumptions about my letter writing capabilities, you make assumptions about my political affiliations too.
Fourth, I believe that the reason people are unhappy about your commission’s proposals is that they don’t understand them. At least I certainly don’t. They appear ill-thought-out, illogical and designed, weirdly, to actually hamstring future Scottish Labour governments by giving them the ability to raise taxes but not lower them.
Perhaps my understanding is wrong. But that’s why I asked you for help.
I look forward to your answers.
Surely that should read “Thank you for the letter, the text of which you comissioned from wingsoverscotland.com.”
Drat “commissioned”
I would call this a result – of a sort.
Without a mass email campaign, Labour would simply have decided to ignore WoS, despite the fact that we are up to above 240000 unique visitors per month (February stats). As it is, we have a woefully inadequate reply from TH, and in it he implicitly acknowledges that WoS forced him into this.
Next time Stu sends a letter to Labour, it will be harder for them to file it in the bucket.
That second paragraph is a peach. Confirms what we all know- vote No get nothing (or as it’s called in politics, an “extended debate”)
Richard Bruce posted this earlier.
A think it’s dead good!
@James Arriere
I posted about this report on the previous thread . It was reported very quickly and have been waiting for more , but unfortunately nothing yet. The EU are seemingly going to make it difficult for both an Independent Scotland and RUk to keep the price of future pensions at the same level . They will be more expensive !!!
Well done Tom. I genuinely mean it.You’re doing a great job for YES!
@ Les Wilson
I think you have Neil Findlay bang to rights for lying to you in an email!
Now I’m a long way from Glasgow but I’m prepared to wager that SPT have not removed all advertising from the trains.
Left this for you on previous thread…
O/T apologies.
I just had a conversation with a wee lassie who works for the BBC. The conversation turned to the referendum. She believed that Scotland received subsidies from England. She thought England was Britain. She thought independence would have Scotland automatically chucked out of Europe.
Of course, I put here right in no uncertain terms, politely pointing out some pertinent facts that blew giant holes in her referendum world view. She hadn’t come across any of the facts I was presenting to her. Shockeroony!
Watch out–Proud Cybernat gets everywhere. Nowhere is safe–no, not even the impregnable battlements of the BBC. The truth will be outed.
Goldenayr and others above have mentioned a possible link between the Sc Gov’s “astonishing” SVR tax varying powers of +-3p, and whether any extra money raised by this would be clawed back by Westminster, through a reduction in the Barnett Formula (“block grant”). Here is a link to a blog by Alan Trench on the subject:
link to devolutionmatters.wordpress.com
In a comment, he basically says there is no Barnett reduction since:
“the Statement of Funding Policy was framed so that revenue raised by the SVR would be ADDITIONAL to the block grant, subject to the costs of collection. That contrasts with what might happen if there were to be hefty increases in Council Tax or Non Domestic Rate, where the Treasury gave itself the right to claw back part or all of any ‘excessive’ increase.”
…or at least that’s the way Orville told it to me.
P.S. to john king and Seasick Dave, great minds think alike!
@Kenny
That is not true. It certainly wasn’t true in the last two Holyrood elections and for Westminster Labour get around 30% of the vote. That under FPTP that gives them a majority of the seats is a scandal but 30% is nowhere near a majority.
Also currently the SNP lead in all the polls from Local through to European and including Westminster for the first time ever.
So it has not been true that Labour get a majority of Scottish votes for some time and it seems they are about to be completely eclipsed by the SNP.
The times they are a changing.
faolie says:
27 March, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Jeez, what a creep. Here’s my reply:
Great letter!
I really don’t understand these elected representatives refusing to correspond with non-constituents!
No-one is asking them for/about anything which refers to their Parliamentary duties. The questions all refer to Labour party policy in general which is not or shouldn’t be a constituency matter.
Boorach, it’s standard. I get it from Christine Grahame’s email every time, irrespective of what the message is about.
From the FT (3 days ago) ..
Brussels will dash the Scottish government’s hopes that EU pension reforms would smooth a transition to independence by shelving plans to relax cross-border rules that could leave schemes with a multibillion pound funding gap….
Interesting the no content of the reply.
When I wrote to my MP concerning the Health Bill for the NHS in England I got a substantial detailed reply of what was planned.
He was from the LibDems, though I wouldn’t vote for them now under any circumstances, it was a full reply.
However as a footnote all the safeguards etc described in the letter I got didn’t last more than a few months, so worth bearing in mind, a concrete example of promises in Westminster don’t mean much when the politics start happening.
There’s a word, what is it? Damn it! It was on the tip of my tongue tae’. Oh, oh, it’s PROFESSIONALISM!
I’ve just sent this email to Tom Harris im sure I’ll get the info
Dear Tom
I understand that you have previously been asked the questions below and have failed to provide answers. As my elected representative at Westminster I request that you provide straight answers to these questions.
Whilst answering these questions you may wish to consider not assuming that I am requesting this information because I support independence. Whether or not I support independence is not relevant to unravelling the unholy mess that is the Labour Party Devolution proposals.
I need not remind you that as an MP you ARE accountable to your constituents and failure to provide straight answers would reflect badly on you. So without further ado (yes, these questions are from WoS – you dont need to mention that in your response):
Stu’s questiobs appended
Katorga
O/t
Just seen BBC Scotland weather . They had some school girls learning all about the weather and how to present it . Aww the nice ! Hope there was No BIAS there! I’m keeping my beady eye on you BBC Scotland!
S’no fair aw you bod’s getting replies from the highly respected Yom Harris M.P. and here’s me still waiting for my reply.
Oh alright I didn’t actually write to Tom the Great but I did write, o.k. e-mail, one of his Labour cohorts, Elaine Murray. I really thought she would have replied by now even to confirm my address after all she is, apparently, a doctor.
O/T just watched a PP Broadcast for the SG. Excellent stuff!
Brilliant party political broadcast by the SNP! Never get tired of watching that particular one . On tonight on STV and BBC .
On the pensions question, John Swinney said on Reporting Scotland that their was not any major problems with today’s EU announcement.
He said all it done was it took the plan back to what it was in November.
He didn’t seem to bothered about today’s story.
Anyone up to speed on this, to give a quick no bull reply.
“The sad fact is that those of a nationalist bent will view any devolution settlement short of full independence as unsatisfactory” No the sad fact is you wont tell what this “any devolution settlement” your going to “give” Scotland actually is. Still at least this snide git answered, there’s nothing from Wullie Young here in ABZ.
Excellent production by the SNP. The broadcast demonstrates the rainbow of optimism and possibilities as against the dark cloud of what lies in wait for us, if we fail to have the courage.
Hope this is far enough in to the thread to go OT.
TheItalianJob
I thought you had the look of someone who would reconise a bit of rope when they saw one.
By conflating the indy vote with the EU it looks like Tom Harris has started a meme. Here’s mine, what’s your take?
“I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers: it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK with its airports bombed by the RAF”
Serious question. is Scottish Labour the worst political party in the U.K, Europe, Earth? I believe they are. Not something to shout about being Scottish right enough.
O/ T This one’s for a MR Tom Harris MP ( Ahem !!)
Last night, Glasgow Caledonian University once again opened it’s doors, to host another debate on Scotland’s future.
The debate was open to the wider public and such was the demand for tickets that the event – organised by the Reconnecting Politics Network – had to be moved to the University’s large refectory extension. No less than approximately 120 were in attendance.
Before the debate, attendees were asked ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ ‘Yes, No or Don’t know’.
Before the debate, in the first ballot, the results were: Yes – 50%
No – 27%, and Undecided – 23%.
Then, after a 90-minute debate, where the Yes side was represented by SNP MSP Sandra White and the Scottish Green Party co-convener, Patrick Harvie, a second ballot was taken; it asked the same question as the first ballot.
The results were: Yes – 62%, No – 30%, and Undecided – 8%.
(From Yes Scotland GCU facebook)
Well done to the ‘Scots’ students at GCU !
Sorry couldn’t resist; Tom the kids are switching on to a new future without Labour MP sellouts.
“Here’s mine, what’s your take?”
My take is, you better start talking pilgrim if you want to walk out of here on those legs o yours, fwatt-ting
I have just received an e-mail from my local msp Lindsey Roy stating that he will look into my Questions and he will get back to me probably next week, I will keep you informed, Not had any response to the other four that i wrote to so far
“My take is, you better start talking pilgrim if you want to walk out of here on those legs o yours, fwatt-ting”
was that too much?
did the spitoon sound effect work?
New poster here, hello all…
Let’s be charitable; Mr Harris is mixing up his referendum questions and confusing the one on Sept 18 with the one to come after the next Westminster elections. There surely is no other explanation because an elected representative would not lie to a constituent like that, now, would he?
Well, this is a bit embarrassing.
Journalists: working for the clampdown?
[i]Tom Morton’s Beatcroft, October 08, 2013
“It’s always filled me with both amusement and despair, that the National Union of Journalists would strike to the last sub-editor sitting to defend the employment rights of its members, some of whom work happily or unhappily for organisations with the toxic morality of not the gutter, but the sewer. In the case of the [b]Daily Mail, [/b]with its 20th century past including [b]Hitler-supporting Nazi sympathy,[/b] its present-day, [b]borderline racism,[/b] its [b]ghastly, preening self-satisfaction,[/b] I look back on my freelance news-gathering self and am [b]appalled[/b] that I ever had anything to do with it. But [b]I needed the money.[/b]”
“This week, Ed Miliband had to read the most scurrilous, pathetic vicious portrayal of his late, eminent father’s views in the aforementioned Daily Mail. He hit the roof. And on his behalf, we had the fantastic spectacle of Alistair Campell returning to full-on Malcolm Tucker Terminator mode on Newsnight, ripping the Mail and Lord Dacre apart like pieces of soiled tissue. Gone was the cuddly, calm Campbell we have learned to live with on Twitter and telly. Tony Blair’s Rottweiler was back, and for once he had the moral high ground.
“True, Ed and the Labour Party had political capital to make, especially during a Tory Party Conference which has seen the Conservatives portrayed, or portray themselves, as frankly and happily repellent in policy and style. But my heart was with Ed. And I wondered about the reporters who had to work on the Mail stories, the anonymous newshounds digging through poor old Ralph’s memoirs, the kid researchers on work experience or Bank of Mum and Dad subsidy, the desperate hackers at the newsface, harangued by newdesk dictators, trying to hang on to their jobs, holding fast to the Mail line.
” And I thought: journalists? Prostitutes? Which is the less hypocritical profession?”[/i]
link to beatcroft.blogspot.co.uk
Yes, I work for the BBC and no, I’m not afraid to say say: Scottish nationalism is dangerous
[i]by Tom Morton, Scottish Daily Mail, March 26, 2013
“So it’s a thoroughly Scottish ‘no’ from me. No to separatism. No to division. And an end to this monumental and corrupting distraction from the central moral and political issues we face.”[/i]
@FlowerofScotland
I just looked at iPlayer online and at the end of Reporting Scotland was offered a party political broadcast by the Alliance party of Northern Ireland. WTF?
A search for ‘party political’ turned up 6 results. The only SNP one was from 30/1.
A SNAFU? I doubt it. I’m off to look up the fed on the telly.
JK:
Didn’t get the spittoon, but ah sure do now!
It would appear something WoS is going down tomorrow somewhere on the east coast. Tweets by Stu. It’s an “outdoor event”. I hope it’s Aberdeen.
“It’s an “outdoor event”.”
All that means is that you’ll need to go outdoors…
The reason they are not answering is they do not know the answers themselves they are as baffled as we are vote yes
Re Muscleguy @20.37 and SNP PPB
Try here link to bbc.co.uk
He said “urban”, but I can’t get an answer to where rural yokels need to go to get a slice of the action.
“While I understand why some are fixated on tax raising powers the SNP Government, at least, seems to consider such matters as irrelevant, since it has declined to use the tax varying powers Holyrood has had since 1999.”
So the parties who were ‘running’ Scotland before the SNP didn’t use them either? Thanks for clearing that up Mr Harris.
He said “urban”, but I can’t get an answer to where rural yokels need to go to get a slice of the action.
Blimp(s)?
That or maybe chip pokes
@Alfresco Dent
Seems to be taking to the airwaves in the morn so the gods are with him as the air-stream is pretty benign.
link to netweather.tv
@ JohnKing 8.18,Ah hope you,v scattered sawdust in that
salon,cause theres a lot of blood gonnie get spilt.
@ Morag
I also enquired for us rural types
@ CynicalHighlander
What kind of airwaves? The radio or the actual air?
Damn! Wings! It’s Wings Over Scotland!
It’s a hot air balloon. I wonder how he got Foulkes to go along wi’ that?
Aye aye – the Rev is up to something, I can smell campaign cooking! Maybe he’ll enlighten us with the last post of the day.
Re: Harris, his letter is a disgrace. It’s thinly veiled contempt is not befitting a supposed representative of the people. He may be addressing a pro-Yes site, but he has ignored his duty as an MP to serve all his constituents in favour of making snide and inaccurate remarks. You reap what you sow, Mr Harris, you reap what you sow.
O/T
For fans of the deluded ravings of barking mad historians…
Here’s a wee extract from an essay by Simon Winder, given a platform in Standpoint, a magazine which values ‘democracy, debate and free speech’ link to standpointmag.co.uk
Indeed it may well be already too late. It must surely be a nightmare to imagine a Scotland falling into the well-worn independence rut of a week or two of parading figures, giant flags and tiny singing children in traditional outfits, followed moments thereafter by impoverishment, a hostile border, flailing autarky and the ever widening hunt for “enemies within”, those who hate and challenge the barely legitimate new state, fuelled by dissident groups in England. This is an absurd vision – except that I cannot see a way round it. Or at least, the risks around it seem far too great. No part of Europe has proved immune to nationalist violence — even the dullest regions have been filled with burning houses in their quite recent pasts. Through a miracle of geography, luck, military strength and political intelligence, the island of Great Britain almost alone has avoided this contagion. Nationalism is unappeasable, it soils everything in its path and it has been allowed to cross the North Sea.
@CameronB
No worries. You post a lot of good stuff. I like your style and I like your smiles.
Keep it up.
Maybe he’s dropping Aye Right leaflets from the sky over all of Scotland.
Morag
He said “urban”, but I can’t get an answer to where rural yokels need to go to get a slice of the action.
BBC’s Lambing Live from West Linton.
@Alfresco Dent
This would be nice.
link to twitter.com
Good God, that is nasty.
If the response of Tom “Admin” Harris is anything to go by, it seems that these are six “Questions to Which the Answer is ‘Er…'”
Now all we need is for Labour Hame to declare them “UNANSWERED”.
Damn! Wings! It’s Wings Over Scotland!
If no a blimp, then a wee plane with a towed banner…
That’d be quality.
BBC’s Lambing Live from West Linton.
I know. I walked right in on it on Tuesday evening on my Yes newspaper round!
@ronnie anderson
Ah hope you,v scattered sawdust in that salon,cause theres a lot of blood gonnie get spilt.
Don’t know about yours ronnie but I won’t be spilling any. I’m drinking all mine and mibbe some of yours too. :giggle:
I doubt if it’ll be a blimp or a plane at this time of year. That’s one for the long summer evenings. And he definitely said urban.
(The “nasty” comment was aimed at Kininvie’s quote.)
TheItalianJob
TVM
I don’t think we should speculate on what the Rev might have planned – he obviously wants to keep it a surprise, so we should respect that. I doubt it’s anything aircraft-related tho, sounds too expensive to me and there’s a long campaign to go yet. Let’s not disappoint ourselves by making wild guesses.
I’m on tenterhooks tho, mind. After his media triumph this week, I’m wondering how he can possibly top that. Any chance of an early post tomorrow with pictures, Rev? Some of us can’t be in Scotland, sadly, and my draconian IT Director blocks all the interesting sites, including Wings.
@kininvie –
Just read the Simon Winder article.
If that isn’t incitement to racial hatred, then it’ll do until the real thing comes along. Astonishingly rancid rubbish, and slackly written to boot.
First time I’ve seen ‘Standpoint’, and I didn’t linger long enough to try and find out what they’re all about.
The jist? Alex Salmond/SNP are Nazis and we’re looking at civil war post-Yes. Right?
@Rogue Coder
Harris’ response is indeed a disgrace. It’s also arguably a breach of the MPs code of conduct, specifically openness and accountability.
Accountability
Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions to the public and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny is appropriate to their office.
Openness
Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only when the wider public interest clearly demands.
link to publications.parliament.uk
I don’t think we should speculate on what the Rev might have planned – he obviously wants to keep it a surprise, so we should respect that.
Aye totally.
Although I might quickly add I reckon he’s got something like they have in batman with the huge searchlight. Wings logo in the sky..
That or one mother of a firework per city which explodes into a massive wings logo as it booms
This is what it is about.
link to twitter.com
@G. Campbell
I remember Tom Morton in the mid nineties.
I think it was the BBC he was working for; anyhow he was trying to do a programme about bikers.
He followed a motorcycle club around in an MZ 250cc and Javelin sidecar combination.
I rest my case.
@ Morag
You think that’s nasty? You clearly aren’t on Facebook then. The Britnat (TM) bile would turn your stomach. Still, at least they leave their names. If only someone would compile a list…
Leave £66k + expenses a year Tom Harris MP alone. He’s had a tough week at Westminster (his favourite place in the whole world) capping the welfare of the poorest children in his constituency.
Shame on you Scottish Labour
link to crowhousekitchen.wordpress.com
This list is arranged by child poverty levels. Any MP’s name that appears voted for the benefits cap and is a Labour MP.
Ok, firework explodes into cloud of small wings advert confetti.
@Betsy
Except in Scotland as the MSM has always protected the Labour party giving them cartblanche to do as they please with impunity.
@scottish_skier
Although I might quickly add I reckon he’s got something like they have in batman with the huge searchlight. Wings logo in the sky.
That would be awesome! But probably only effective at night
Still, a grand idea for the pot going forward…
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
“It’s an “outdoor event”.”
All that means is that you’ll need to go outdoors…
Cue Telstar.
link to youtu.be
Stu, given that we’re all on tenterhooks for whatever the morrow brings, how about spilling the beans on Mr Graham’s we train set. It might help the Auchentoshan go down.
that’ll be two e’s in wee…
Leave £66k + expenses a year Tom Harris MP alone
LOL, reminded me of Mrs Merton interviewing Debbie McGee.
Apologies for going O/T here but I’ve found a couple of links over on Twitter that might ‘interest’ some and bemuse others.
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
This is what I like aboot this place.
Aw the kerfuffle re posting music vids FFS.
And some folks say fuck you and do it anyway.
We *are* meant to be rebels, right? …right…?
From the Rev’s Twitter:
WoS: I see a journey
Gill Bann: For me or for Wings?
WoS: You
I’ve worked out what he’s doing. Its… Oh look, squirrel!!
Just watched ITV’s News at Ten doing a piece on Shetland and its aspirations of being independent of Scotland.
It was a disgraceful item as it didn’t bother speaking to anyone from the YES Shetland campaign and only spoke to those in Shetland that think they can go it alone.
It was basically a piece to confuse and muddy the waters without proper balance
i can’t figure out this twitter m’larky at all.
when i look at wings twitter posts it just looks like cryptic crossword clues , are there night classes for this kinda thang ?
So, without wanting to spoil any surprise, I’m assuming from the hints the Rev has dropped elsewhere that us urban commuters might want to keep an eye on a newspaper that’s already featured in our chat this week?
@kendomacaroonbar says:
i can’t figure out this twitter m’larky at all.
when i look at wings twitter posts it just looks like cryptic crossword clues , are there night classes for this kinda thang ?
link to igkt.net
@cynical highlander
ya wee scamp ! knot funny
@Arbroath 1320 –
Cheers – they were both great reads.
Baillie?…phrooooomph!
@kendomacaroonbar
Twitter? Here’s me just spent thirty years getting the hang of MS DOS…
@Thepnr,9.36, Ah hud tae say blood ah canny speil dei fae
the rear.
@Conan_the_Librarian
Great song, though I have to ask are you some kind of subserive?. Just asking like, don’t get yersel in trouble
Read the Winder thing although I am not sure why, it set its stall out early and I struggled to maintain interest after the first couple of paragraphs. I think his source material was the comments section of the Mail. Basically we are all crypto-fascists and Scotland will become Bosnia or something else.
I think he should stick to the Hapsburgs and leave us to get on with our own politics. If he has nothing sensible to say he could spend his time more fruitfully on stuff he does know about.
@Conan
Is that why you live in Edlin burgh ?
10 Prn ‘Ah’ll get mah coat’
20 Goto 10
ronnie your a feccckkkiiinnngggg nuuutttteeeeerrrr.
lolololololololol
@Thepnr
Edward,
Indeed, Shetland independent good. Scotland independent bad.
I didn’t quite get the point of it myself.
Nationalism where Westminster gets the oil good. Nationalism where Westminster doesnt get the oil bad.
They actually spoke to two people who said indepndent Shetland would be desirable and to be fair they both gave me the impression that they hadn’t exactly worked out the logistical, political financial or social implications.
They’re not bloody vikings and they never were.
ITN are pathetic like the rest of them. I was angry before the report even began as I knew exactly how it would go before it started. In fact I could have turned the sound down and voiced it over.
Perhaps this could become a new Natsport.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
cynicalHighlander
FFH
You’ve got it, now keep away. You might be infectious. ;(
link to en.wikipedia.org
EU higher private pensions cost in Indy Scot
No repeats of Morcame & Wise, singin Bring Me Sunshine
Cue Al Jolson black up Al( haw is that no racist,naw Al
its Jockland they can be abused by anybody, BTs in charge,
ok You Are My Sunshine Ma Only Sunshine, sos nae vid.
Now what was that song about three wheels on my wagon – (no need for a you-tube post Morag)
@ kendo
expression Specifies a valid alphanumeric expression [not in subway]
@Conan_the_Librarian
“I’m looking for some one to change my life”
“I’m looking for a miracle in my life”.
Me too, I’m voting Yes.
Darlings – I’ve been guilty of playing the DJ – can we keep it for after the witching hour?
SLAB Are trying to keep their head down thinking the NO side can slow the move to YES until the referendum and they get a no vote. They will then come out of the bomb shelters and pick up where they left off, after all the storm will have passed, won’t it?
Westminster, HMG, lords, establishment, EBC, MSM etc etc all seem to think if they win the referendum then they can carry on as before. That ain’t going to happen!
Scotland is awakening and will not accept the corruption, deceit and mis governance from Westminster or Holyrood, those days have gone or are going and the politicians better clean up their act and remember who calls the shots. WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY!
If anybody thinks they can manipulate and fleece Scotland again then they are very mistaken and even more stupid. They Really don’t understanding and that bothers me. They will have their faces so deep in the trough and trying to punish the daft Jocks that they will pour paraffin on the embers to extinguish the flames of freedom once and for all. Not to bright I think however they are very arrogant stupid and selfish, nothing will surprise me. So let it be!
Did anybody see that thing aboot changeing the Genatic
strand useing Yeast,ah hope it Pan-s oot.
@Thepnr –
Judging by the MSM reaction to this site, and to Rev Stu in particular, we have all become subversives, and cultists into the bargain – don’t know if you follow the Twitter stuff, but some of the stuff Grahamski came out with today was just vile.
Between that sort of shite, and the article kininvie linked-to earlier, we get a measure of the kind of people we’re up against, and what they really think of us.
It’s just such a pity that those people don’t have vibrant, busy blogs where the discussion is so intense that the occasional link to some obscure music is seen (by most) as a welcome diversion – at least then we’d have an idea of what music these people listen to, and that might help shed light on why they are so fundamentally tragic.
Here’s your vid ronnie, those that don’t like, no harm done. Just skip to the next post.
Re independence for bits of Scotland.
link to bbc.co.uk
It’s the separatist People’s Republic of Edinburgh that worries me most.
Ah think ave upset Thepnr, he,s shoutin in elongated words.
Aye – Tom Morton & a music show + glib crap that’s usually wrong. What a great radio show, NOT.
His son’s a proud scot though … no wait a minute.
The BBC in Scotland now that is dangerous, end of.
Oh well lets play the fool
@Ian Brotherhood
Since I’m in DJ mood, here’s one I heard earlier over at BT central.
Pink Floyd: ‘Keep Talking’
(Aye, that one, with Stephen Hawking…’All weneed todo…iskeep tokking’)
‘Why won’t you talk to me?
You never talk to me…’
@ Ian Brotherhood
Is Twitter where Grahamski hangs out now?
Here was me thinking he’d got such a sair face from his support of Eric Joyce and to being linked with the Grangemouth fiasco he’d hung up his keyboard.
A dying breed, a syndico anarchist in a Red Tory party.
@ Thepnr, Thanks pal nae black face but Johnny,s mair than
welcome.
The Sun allways shines on the Rightious.
@CameronB says:
cynicalHighlander
FFH
You’ve got it, now keep away. You might be infectious. ;(
Ah but I am one of those good diseases like fungi who likes to spread honesty through spores not contamination by surreptitious contact.
JK & Craig P
It’s “Ptff . . . . . . twang”
Hey boy bring that spittoon a mite closer.
Alister Gray on NNS is on fine form
@ronnie
Could you put it plain terms for us?
Conan_the_Librarian says:
“Twitter? Here’s me just spent thirty years getting the hang of MS DOS…”
Err..we’re onto Windows now, ya rebel
I read the Simon Winder piece which seemed to be full of, if not threats, then his fears that the English might be essentially crypto-fascist in some way that will be dangerous to both Scotland and England. Interesting. My brother, who has lived in SE England for decades shares this view and is against Scottish indy on the grounds that it will wake this lurking English monster.
For info, Winder wrote a very entertaining and informed book about German history and culture entitled ‘Germania’. It stops just before the triumph of Nazism, which Winder describes as too painful to examine. So he has genuine credentials.
I have always been of the view that the English are basically a decent and civilized lot, but I concede I might be wrong.
@ronnie Anderson
Did it cost a lot of bread to develop that technology?
I have received the same formula reply from Tom Harris.
I just wonder whether we haven’t taken our collective eye off the ball a bit? I mean we’re not actually expecting a definitive answer on the tax powers are we? It’s basically a rhetorical question which simply serves to highlight what a heap of incoherent mince the document is. The broader point is surely SLAB’s attempt to present the proposals as the reward for a NO vote? In his reply Tom Harris not only contradicts Bernard Ponsonby etc. by explicitly stating the choice is NOT between independence and increased devolution powers but refers to the proposal itself as a ‘vision’. In other words as far as he’s concerned the details are irrelevant because it ain’t gonna happen?
@ronnie anderson
Wasn’t Alistair Gray magnificent!
@ X_Sticks
Yes, I’ve a blue floppy disc that says “2.1” in marker pen on the label.
It doesn’t seem to fit into my phone though.
@X_Sticks says:
@ronnie Anderson
Did it cost a lot of bread to develop that technology?
Nah plenty dough tho.
@X_sticks
Err..we’re onto Windows now, ya rebel
Some of us have even moved up to Mac OS X
Weil if every wan on song ah no gittin left oot.
We’re awe Urban Wingers
We’re serious folk
Conveyin our message
thro song,poem, n joke
We’re no urban spacemen
but we’re flying high
jist like wee Orvil
Way Up Tae The Sky.
Excellent interviews with Alasdair Gray on both sides tonight. Some man.
Newsnight with Brewer, a very fast flash of tomorrow’s Mail,
Better Together in crisis as the YES vote surges!!
Hip Hip ……………………….
Oh dearie me it looks like Labour have given up on winning the referendum in September. They are now looking for the majority S.N.P. government not to use its majority to bring in an interim written constitution. Awe the wee diddumsies!
link to tinyurl.com
Great music tonight.
Conan, x-sticks,
Windows? Is that the awfie greedy system that lets you have word perfect and Lotus 123 open at the same time?
I wonder if it will catch on.
Now I don’t mean to go O/T and at the same time draw attention to myself and risk health impairment, but don’t forget to check out the last few of my comments on the previous thread. :9
Remember…..”Simmer Down”.
Thanks folks.
@Paula Rose
Someone else will have to haul us over the line to the witching hour. But I’ll leave you with The Westminster & Better Together signature tune. Goodnight fellow travelers.
I’m so sorry but here I go again folks, I just could not keep this one back.
link to tinyurl.com
@Les Wilson says:
Newsnight with Brewer, a very fast flash of tomorrow’s Mail,
Better Together in crisis as the YES vote surges!!
Hip Hip ……………………….
link to youtube.com
Oops.
link to pbs.twimg.com
You,s lot i,ll be laughfin on the ither side o your
faces if BT git their hawns on that Gene,it can be mind
altering.
CameronB
Come to Glasgow on the 4th and be the DJ, I’ll help too.
@ cearc
I hope it does, my mate Bill says he’ll cut me in on the profits after all the help I gave him Beta testing it.
Just maybe you get the drift (for you Morag)
C’mon Stu! What? Where? Or at least when tomorrow? If I’ve got to travel to Perth in the morning, or get myself atop a munro to enjoy this surprise, I’ve got to make plans and set off early. Pieces to make, flask to fill etc.
Whatever it is, I don’t want to miss it.
@Conan the Librarian –
re: Grahamski
Far as I can tell, that was him earlier, over on Twitter, coming out with some vicious personal shite about Rev, and WoS readers/supporters, and it was more than a one-off tantrum. Consistently nasty stuff.
Doesn’t seem so long ago that he would pop in here from time to time – not sure if he was ever banned outright, but even when he was here he was never that OTT, not that I recall anyway.
scottish_skier says:
It’s the separatist People’s Republic of Edinburgh that worries me most.
SPLITTERS!
Thepnr
I’m not very reliable so you’d be left in a lot of uncertainty. Sorry.
Best Daily Mail front page ever?
conan,
Oh, when we were young and naive, eh?
Ian he’s losing the plot. They all are really.
…………………./´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…
Thepnr
Nae music in the Counting House…if You and CameronB can hum the kwality chooooons mind then we’re sorted!
Thepnr
Total kinks.
“I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers:”
Could Tom Harris’ constituents ask him this:
If that is the case, what was the purpose of Labour’s devolution commission reporting now and not after the referendum?
To mislead the people of Scotland?
Ananurhing says:
C’mon Stu! What? Where? Or at least when tomorrow? If I’ve got to travel to Perth in the morning, or get myself atop a munro to enjoy this surprise, I’ve got to make plans and set off early. Pieces to make, flask to fill etc.
Whatever it is, I don’t want to miss it.
To be fair Ananurhing Stu did let slip over on Twitter that whatever he has ‘planned’ will be happening in Perth.
@PaulaRose,
We’ve lived thro some shitty times in our lives
But the Music was GOOD
We’re gonna live in better times
an the Music gets better
The Music never dies
“They even take tithes of the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule. They claim this mother of ours, the Earth, for their own use, and fence their neighbors away from her, and deface her with their buildings and their refuse.”
Sitting Bull hunkpapa Lakota Tribal Chief
I wobder what he’d have thought of the Better Together Campaign.
Local by-election held today (yesterday) in Kilmarnock North – SNP hold.
I leave you alone for 24 hours and you are bombarding our poor elected representatives with cruel and fiendish questions by the inboxful- don’t you know these guys don’t give a monkeys? Press them by all means but the embarrassment of a response from Tom Harris above is symptomatic.
I just emailed Mr Chisholm and Mr Lazarowizc- tried to be friendly and not do a cut and paste job to see if I can get anywhere. Mr Lazarowizc was helpful when I got stuck in Stavanger with a heavily preggers Mrs J when that bloody volcano erupted a few years back. Ended up gaining passage hame on a Norwegian merchant navy training vessel crewed by teenagers. Bizarre experience- giving the Captain of the ship advice on talking to girls..
anyway- Mr Lazarowizc tried to help so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and let you know what he comes back with. For him and his friends another volcano is overdue an eruption.
By the way- with all this talk of nights out in Glasgow I’m wondering if we canny manage a couple of pints in Leith mibbe in the next few weeks? I love Glasgow but am away up north next weekend.
Just a wee thought.
@tartanarse
I understand your frustration on that point, I’m from Shetland originally and it makes me mad to see tavish scott come out and say an independent Shetland would be good, don’t get me wrong, maybe at some point down the line it could happen.
Its strange that he has never mentioned until now.
I agree with you they are probably not ready politically, I might not agree with you on the financial or social issue though,
But from what I’ve seen there hasn’t been the appetite (for now) in Shetland for Scottish independence as there is on mainland Scotland and I think Scott and the like have been getting as much mileage out of this as they can.
It was a VERY strategic move by Westminster to give Alistair Carmichael the Scottish secretory position as his seat is Orkney and Shetland but this seems to have backfired, he has alienated a fair amount of his voters there and with his, how do I put it, SHITE performance so far, a fair few more (that I’ve spoken to) are coming round.
Mind folks at pub next week…theres only So Much Wine…..
link to m.youtube.com
Thepnr
I’d be happy to make one up though. You could have it nice and fluffy or have your brains dripping from your ears. Either way. No matter so long as it pays the mortgage. Brother.
Arbroath1320
I think he said Perth would be close enough. I’m wondering when. If it can be seen from Perth, I should be able to see whatever it is from a Munro somewhere. I’ve got a favourite one in mind, because I can drive up the first 2000 feet.
I have high hopes for this, and I can see myself sitting on a top, in the snow with a cup o’ tea and a fag, waiting, having already missed it. Or looking the wrong way.
Am I missing something here? I came to this late.
Apols..meant this wonderful Handsome Family recording…
link to m.youtube.com
Windows? No sir, I’m one of those who discovered looong ago …
… Once you go Mac, you don’t go back
Day 2. Still nothing from Aberdeen cooncilor, DEVOLUTION COMMISSION teamaker, doorstop and all round choob Willie Young. Wullie if you’re out there dude, this is for you link to youtube.com Why this song comes up so much with Labour in Scotland is another non mystery.
@ heedtracker
caz-m was asking what the truth was about saltires being banned in Aberdeen?
This council property only?
Ananurhing says:
Arbroath1320
I think he said Perth would be close enough. I’m wondering when. If it can be seen from Perth, I should be able to see whatever it is from a Munro somewhere. I’ve got a favourite one in mind, because I can drive up the first 2000 feet.
I have high hopes for this, and I can see myself sitting on a top, in the snow with a cup o’ tea and a fag, waiting, having already missed it. Or looking the wrong way.
Am I missing something here? I came to this late.
I’m still holding out for the Red Arrows flying in One Direction myself.
Perhaps you might take along a pair of binoculars just in case you’re up the top of your Munro when Stu’s wee ‘surprise’ passes by the bottom of the Munro.
The only thing that I’m concerned about is how long it will take SPT to put a blocker on this one. I know we’re talking about Perthshire, well outside the grasp of SPT but hey it’s the SPT anything is possible
Gavin Barrie (jammach)
Snobby pants. (blows raspberry)
ronnie anderson says:
“it can be mind altering.”
You on that talcum powder again ronnie?
Look out folks everyone in Aberdeen you lucky people, you are due to receive a visit in the near future from none other than Nick Clegg!
“Clegg to outline case for the Union”
Back home, that’s what we call “the kiss of death”.
link to bbc.co.uk
RogueCoder says:
“Clegg to outline case for the Union”
Back home, that’s what we call “the kiss of death”.
link to bbc.co.uk
Any ideas about which telephone box they are planning to use this time?
As we are having some Rock’n’Roll here’s Stevie Nicks doing a live version of the greaest jam song of all time. This is for Winnie Ewing and Iain Hamilton in particular but more for the thousands who haven’t lived to see the day that all their efforts have given us. Billy Wolfe, Neil MacCormick, Douglas Henderson, Maggie Ewing, Bashir Ahmad, Douglas Crawford and all the wee folk that pounded the streets of Scotland for all those years and never asked for anything but decent country to hand onto their childreen. You can all name so many more.
Not Fade Away
Oh look folks the unionist parties appear to be close to reaching a consensus on more devolution for Scotland. Hmm… too little too late methinks!
link to tinyurl.com
@Arbroath 1320
Any ideas about which telephone box they are planning to use this time?
No idea, but it’s bound to smell of pish
Every time Westminster perceive a crisis, they parachute in some flunkie they think has weight and gravitas, not thinking for a moment just how insulting this is. They just don’t get it. Not that I’m complaining, mind – I reckon wee Nicky’s visit might just punt us over the top
If BT were properly serious and could organise a half decent campaign, they’d put Cameron on a plane to Edinburgh, Glasgow or Aberdeen and have that live debate with Alec as part of a coordinated, month-long positive charm offensive. They’d pony up a concrete 60% devo package agreed between the 3 Westminster parties and say “this is what you will definitely get on September 19th”. That might convince just enough folks to vote No, but even then I doubt it.
Fortunately for us and all of Scotland, and as Salmond well knew, they’ll all be too busy at each others throats to agree on anything more pressing than what wine to order with lunch.
Besides, we’ve all seen Alec debate. He’d wipe the floor with Eton Boy.
I’m thinking as it’s the LibDem (who are they again?
) conference that Nick Clegg is going to Aberdeen to address he must be feeling on top of the world after his latest massive defeat of Nigel Farage. Oh what’s that he DIDN’T beat oor Nige well knock me down with a feather! 
As far as Better Together are concerned I’m thinking they have one or two wee internal problems to sort out, at least if you believe anything that appears in the Daily Mail.:)
“Chief Treasury Secretary Danny Alexander will also address the conference. He will compare independence with the split between actress Gwyneth Paltrow and Coldplay frontman Chris Martin.”
Glad to see Danny takes this seriously.
Does he think we’re all numpties?
What a muppet…oh wait a minute he is that’s right Beaker!
Still it’s nice to see that he is happy to use the mishaps of others to further his pathetic useless and loosing campaign. I wonder what he does for an encore, the rejoining of Crimea to Russia?
As I mentioned in the previous thread I occasionally contact my representatives by (template) email on behalf of Dogs Trust.
To be honest I am sometimes disappointed by the lack of response from my SNP representatives. However in every case the Labour reps always respond. Having said that they do not always reply to the question but in every case they take the opportunity to have a poke at the SNP.
Just watching the news regarding the Turkish government banning Twitter and attempting to ban Youtube. Oh they have an upcoming election, what a surprise!
The reporter just stated that the opposition has been denied the MSM and has moved on to using social media and the internet in response.
Sounds familiar.
I said earlier Tmitj that if anyone from the NO side be it Better Together themselves or more likely Westminster tried to do anything similar here in the final few months of this referendum I am absolutely convinced that this action would backfire massively against the NO camp and we would win with an even bigger majority than I expect we currently will.
@Arbroath 1320
I agree but look how quickly they got the Wings subway advert banned. Censorship is censorship, it is just that the UK does it with more subtlety. Well it has had plenty of practise over the years.
SUBTLETY?
How about suppression of the free press?
Boogie Down Productions – Love’s Gonna Get’cha (Material Love)
I think it may be time to retire the Crusher branding?
Thepnr says
““I’m looking for some one to change my life”
“I’m looking for a miracle in my life”.”
Wow Moody Blues superb
Ronnie Anderson says
“Ah think ave upset Thepnr, he,s shoutin in elongated words.”
WHAT THE Lopadotemachoselachogaleokranioleipsano…pterygon DO YOU MEAN?
Ronnie(the other one) says
“caz-m was asking what the truth was about saltires being banned in Aberdeen?”
Oh please God let it be true!
Rogue Coder says
““Chief Treasury Secretary Danny Alexander will also address the conference. He will compare independence with the split between actress Gwyneth Paltrow and Coldplay frontman Chris Martin.”
Glad to see Danny takes this seriously.
Does he think we’re all numpties?
And we never cheated on them with another country EVER!
(apart from that drunken weekend with Norway)
I seem to remember a Christmas tree for some reason ?
Cearc says
“conan,
Oh, when we were young and naive, eh?”
EH? WHAT HAPPENED? ONE MINUTE ITS 1970 THEN——
Desimond says
“Nae music in the Counting House…if You and CameronB can hum the kwality chooooons mind then we’re sorted!”
Do you know the piano’s on my foot?
No you hum it and I’ll play it
Tam Jardine says
” Bizarre experience- giving the Captain of the ship advice on talking to girls..”
Wow how many pints has that earned you?
explaining to a matlo how to pull, I applaud you sir!
link to youtu.be
So, did anyone look to the east at dawn? If so what did you see?
Ronnie Anderson says
“@ JohnKing 8.18,Ah hope you,v scattered sawdust in that
salon,cause theres a lot of blood gonnie get spilt.”
Ayup, and ah’ve got the carpenter to knock up some coffins for them there deed men, hawk-Spit-ting
Cearc says
“So, did anyone look to the east at dawn? If so what did you see?”
Clouds, what were we meant to see?
Newsnight with Brewer, a very fast flash of tomorrow’s Mail,
“Better Together in crisis as the YES vote surges”!!
Any more on this?
I’m guessing a survation poll?
The sad fact is that those of a nationalist bent will view any devolution settlement short of full independence as unsatisfactory.
Unreasonable of us, isn’t it?
What did people like Tom say about past campaigns?
“The sad fact is that those suffragettes will view any settlement short of full emancipation for women as unsatisfactory.”
“The sad fact is that those anti-slavery fanatics will view any settlement short of full abolition of slavery as unsatisfactory.”
You’re on the wrong side of history, Tom.
Blood n Spit
link to m.youtube.com
Edward says:
‘Just watched ITV’s News at Ten doing a piece on Shetland and its aspirations of being independent of Scotland.’
Totally agree, mate. Absolute nonsense. Once again, the UK media trying to implement a scare story by implying that if Shetland becomes independent, then it will get all the oil.
For those who have studied it, Shetland WON’T get all the oil. Once again, it comes down to national boundaries. The top of Scotland will cut right across the North Sea thus cutting off Shetland from a huge portion of the oil. It will get some. It won’t get it all.
Here’s a map that I’ve quickly found
link to 4.bp.blogspot.com
Now, studying that map, if we are saying Shetland goes it alone (leaving the Orkneys as part of Scotland), then Shetland is only entitled to the oil fields to the right of it. Nothing else. It won’t be anywhere near the vast richer fields. And as to the vast potential windfall in the Atlantic side. It will see hee-haw!
Plus, based on Shetland’s population which is miniscule. Yeah, they could go for it, but there is no infrastructure of any kind for independent government, trade, population growth, etc. It’s a mass of small islands with sparse population on each. It just won’t work. It will as isolated as some of the islands in the South Pacific Sea. It will be no better than the Faroe Islands. Sure, they are semi autonomous, but they totally rely on Denmark. It would be the same with the Shetlands. They would utterly rely on Scotland.
Now, some may say ‘ah, but that’s the Unions argument against us!’ Well, it’s not. Scotland has a deep and well organised infrastructure that covers the whole of Scotland. Shetland does not. Shetland would need serious, serious investment and a population growth beyond belief for it to make it work.
The ITV news last night should be ashamed of itself. It found 2 people who basically said, ‘Independence for Shetland’. I wonder how many said, ‘No, we’re Scottish and we are remaining with Scotland’. I’ll bet it was way more than the 2 folk that they did find.
…or just the spit
link to m.youtube.com
Shetland is TWTPTS to go all separatist!
Plus, we would have to bomb Sumburgh Airport etc etc etc.
What currency would they use, eh?
@JLT. Those maps aren’t correct. As Islands off a foreign mainland their territorial waters only extend to 12 miles(I seem to recall), so they wouldnt actually have any oil fields at all. That might change the complexion of their status. Good luck getting westminster to look after them if there was no Oil…
If Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles want to rule themselves why shouldn’t they. I’m not opposed to it. While it might be mischief making, I know that the islands and the Scottish government have been talking about greater control by the islands themselves.
@Scottish_skier
Not according to Glen Campbell on GMS this morning the NO Campaign is still “substantially ahead”.
WHAT??
No BBC Scotland bias there then Glen.
I think that was his “Andrew Marr Moment”.
Square Haggis (good Commanche name) says
Blood n Spit
Heap powerful good medicine 10 Bears speaks
But the blood whaaaa I hate blood,
think Doc Martin
bleeeuurrch
Scottish cabinet is headed that way next week I believe.
Carmichael will be in his bunker as Nicola’s gaun, dinna fancy his chances stuck wi her on a wee island, all night, in the dark.
Want to earn a quick £10.
Sneak into the back of the hall at the Lib/Dem conference in Aberdeen, stand up on a chair while Nick Clegg is speaking and shout,
“fuck off back to England ya wee fuckin wanker”.
Then run out the hall shoutin “INDEPENDENCE”.
Easy money!
Square Haggis says
“Carmichael will be in his bunker as Nicola’s gaun, dinna fancy his chances stuck wi her on a wee island, all night, in the dark.”
Be afraid, be very afraid
caz-m “fuck off back to England ya wee fuckin wanker”.
Then run out the hall shoutin “INDEPENDENCE”.
Easy money!”
What and risk this?
link to youtube.com
no thanks I’d rather face the werewolf that’s coming for Carmichaelmoore
@John King – That’d dae it.
Sae lang as she mines splatch one on the forrheid eftir, just for effect
Boundaries and oil explained here (from Rev Stu’s repository) link to worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com
John King
Since the Northern Isles don’t have any labour representation at either parliament.Does that mean I can claim kinship?
Yours
Mr La De Da
On Shetland issue, under International law and United Nations convention (UNCLOS) regarding small islands they would only be entitled to six miles of territorial waters meaning no oil and not much fish.
What if for example Whalsay and Foula declared independence or elected to stick with Scotland?
Remind unionists that the Isle of Man and Channel Islands only have rights up to six miles offshore.
Similarly the UK does not have any claim over Rockall after Indy as it is an uninhabited rock. According to the Law of the Sea: “rocks which could not sustain human habitation or economic life of their own would have no economic zone or continental shelf.”
However there is more chance that Cumbria and Northumberland will apply to join an independent Scotland giving their poor treatment by Westminster than Shetland or Orkney leaving.
The Continental Shelf Act 1964 and the Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 defines the UK North Sea maritime area to the north of latitude 55 degrees north as being under the jurisdiction of Scots law meaning that 94% of the UK’s oil resources were under Scottish jurisdiction In addition, section 126 of the Scotland Act 1998 defines Scottish waters as the internal waters and territorial sea of the United Kingdom as are adjacent to Scotland
Interesting full page ad in The Metro today…..
Ah’m just pure loving this new Britnat democracy in action; find a couple of people to moan about an advert and down it comes, find two people that want their area to be independent and wahey, job done!
I now have full confidence that we can raise the support for an Independent Scotland before September 18.
Failing that, me and the rest of the family will be declaring Seasicksville a tax free nirvana.
goldenayr says
“John King
Since the Northern Isles don’t have any labour representation at either parliament.Does that mean I can claim kinship?
Yours
Mr La De Da”
Oh dear what a shame never mind
Seasick Dave says
“Failing that, me and the rest of the family will be declaring Seasicksville a tax free nirvana.”
If I join you you could make it The Kingdom of Sesasickville :>)
John King
Jealousy gets you nowhere..:-]
Stonefaction says
“Interesting full page ad in The Metro today…..”
Well? were all ears, don’t keep us in suspense
or do you really want me to go to the nearest train station to get a metro?
JUST SPILL!
I thought, “in for a penny….”.
I’m not joking when I say I’m brickin’ it now. I’m actually pacing the floor. It’s probably ’cause I ran out of meds and haven’t been able to face getting to the chemist for about a fortnight-month(?). Might be WHY I’ve been a bit OCD? I can cop with loosing the happy pills but I get a bit edge-y without the ‘slow-me-down’ pills. Might be why I called my first company “Cutting Edge Design” (hi former customers…waves)
Anyhoo. I got there yesterday, just before five, only to find the chemist didn’t have my prescription in stock. Now I had said YES when I was asked if this was to be a regular prescription. So, OK….got to adapt and improve.
improvement = DEVELOPMENT
Anyhoo. I asked when they would be able to fill my prescription and was told Monday or Tuesday. The very helpful (far-east Asian?)assistant was ASTONISHED that it was next day service in Dundee, which I’ve heard performs well with respect to care for the elderly and such. You know….the wee things. It might be something to do with the large population of south-west Asian decent that live in Dundee. Who knows? I think it has something to do with a shared experience of poverty (to begin with). But I ramble.
Forgot what I was wanting to say, so I’ll end by mentioning the chemist in Edinburgh was also of south-west Asian decent or origin. Oceania, now its Strange that.
Oh yeh, the latest nudge is to get my GP to book me in to the Sleep Deprivation Clinic. Not sure if I like the sound of that.
OK, it is a positive measure, but I think my record speaks for itself, they are hearing what I am saying, but I think they are working to a quota system
Vote YES or the Tories ‘ill get cha……Whoooooooo.
Try doing a wiki search for 1984 power blocks and have a look at the top link……Whooooooooo
Anyoo. :9
P.S. Sarah Boyack might be able to confirm there is at least a chance that there may be some semblance of truth in some of my previous posts. Maybeez on this thread and maybeez naw.
What do you think kids?
John King, there you go
link to twitter.com
@ME @7.46
“Square Haggis (good Commanche name)”
More good Commanche names could be
Square Sausage
Square crisps,
Square Black pudding
Square White pudding (is there such a thing)
Plain loaf (well ye;ve goaat tae hiv sumthin tae eat thum oan)
help a cannie stoap , the brakes huv failed
aaaahhhh.
Alan Macintosh says
“John King, there you go”
I knew it I knew it
YES
YES
YES
I would say get it right up ye’s but Im too polite.
OH?
P.P.S.
@ Better Together
It’s not a good idea to piss a designer off, as they are likely to invent something that may undermine your position.
Oops. Details eh? You know…the wee things.
Anything I can do for you Cameron
a bit concerned about ye man.
@Albe4Eva
That new Lady Alba video, pure dead brilliant!
You’re onto somethin there John, maybe we’ll see a whole new bunch of readers signin up wi commanchero handles b4 the day is done.
link to m.youtube.com
HOW, babba dabba dum, HOW babba dabba dum, HOW!
Now ye got me daein it
john king
Don’t get me started.
The Scarlets – Stampede
link to youtube.com
Alba4eva@6.39 says
I’m sorry Joanne but I think I’m in love with Lady Alba
she is amazing
I cant be the only one who thinks the guy in red is Taranaich and the Alex Salmond mask guy is Alan Cochrane surely?
Re the mail headline.
Seems not a new poll, but about apparent reaction to the clear movement to Yes that’s happening.
link to pbs.twimg.com
This is Nick Clegg rounding off his speech at the Lib/Dem conference in Aberdeen today.
link to ladyofthecake.com
john king
Cheers for the offer John. Kind of you. I think I’m managing to mismanage my affairs quite effectively without handing the mess over to a committee :), but I would like to know where TF south Edinburgh Yes group is and how do I get in touch with them without F Facebook?
I might be able to offer some assistance?
Catching up…too many posts…werewolves…sleep deprivation…and Gwyneth Paltrow has left her man to be with Danny Alexander? Huh?
Square sausage oops Haggis says
“HOW, babba dabba dum, HOW babba dabba dum, HOW!”
Jings that takes me back
Fred Dinage is still a tit though
caz-m says
“This is Nick Clegg rounding off his speech at the Lib/Dem conference in Aberdeen today.”
You hear BULLSHIT caz-m
I hear this
Fred Dineage also has an unhealthy interest in gruesome murders if the documentaries he hosts on Sky are a measure.
Sure they did on about how to square a circle but ironically can’t find it.
@S_S
That will be an interesting meeting that BT are holding today.
You mentioned Survation might have a poll out.
Well if you check out their recent pattern, it has been every three weeks.
Which would mean that a Survation poll might be due out.
@caz-m@7.54 – do it naked and bare a big hairy Scoatish erse and should be worth £20
Croompenstien says
“@caz-m@7.54 – do it naked and bare a big hairy Scoatish erse and should be worth £20 :)”
Do that and they’ll have a whipround in the venue for a repeat performance, oh?
ma bad
Ian Brotherhood says
“Catching up…too many posts…werewolves…sleep deprivation…and Gwyneth Paltrow has left her man to be with Danny Alexander? Huh?”
Way to go ma man startin rumours like that
mind you that could have some milage!
who else could leave their man/woman for an unlikely new love
I open the floor
Anyone fancying a bit of real politics can see some tonight @ Aberdeen UNI, see the link
link to aberdeenfestivalofpolitics.wordpress.com
@john king 9.02am
That video should be shown on national television as an “all for yes-party political broadcast on behalf of the YES Campaign”.
Check out when it was made caz-m Peter Sellers recorded that in 1955 the visuals are clearly modern but the waffle never changes.
@Croompenstien
@caz-m@7.54 – do it naked and bare a big hairy Scotatish erse and should be worth £20.
You sound as if you are up for it.
Do you stay within runnin distance of the hall in Aberdeen.
Go Forward With Courage
When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
So long as mists envelop you, be still;
be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
— as it surely will.
Then act with courage.
Ponca Chief White Eagle (1800’s to 1914)
Think I like this one best!
@caz-m
If it’s gonnae happen anywhere it’ll be Aiberdeen.
We teuchters just love rinnin aboot in the buff.
A change tae get the nuptuals oot for the BBC sounds rather temptin.
Where’s the “speech” bein “spoke” BTW?
@Dorothy Devine – great find
Didn’t Ponca Chief White Eagle have some wise words for the original American Constitution, sure I read someplace the original inhabitants virtually wrote the document.
Aye, they had it all sussed out afore we came along and stoled it all
anyone got a tip for cheap accommodation since the hotel the wife booked “Charing cross guest house” the other day
who just phoned and a really cheeky manager told the wife off, for not checking out the website properly and told her we were not welcome in his hotel due to her disability because she’s a “fire hazard” whikle I write this
she received an email from the hotel advising her they are refunding her fee but admonishing her they would have been entitled to retain her booking fee as she did not check out the access, the breathtaking cheek of this man, whatever you do don’t got to that hotel EVER!
Regarding the Shetland’s story on last nights ITV News at Ten. It was disgraceful in that , yet again it was a crude attempt and the ‘divide and rule’ ethos of the unionist media.
No attempt was made to interview anyone from YES Shetland, despite the story being about the Scottish referendum.
Yes, the Northern Isles and the Western Isles need more, because frankly they have been largely left on their own for the last 300 years!. This is reflected in the way the countless UK governments have seen them. The only apparent uses has been to test rockets or germ warfare (Western Isles).
There has been no proper integration with the transport infrastructure because basically UK governments haven’t really invested in a proper transport infrastructure in Scotland as a whole! Politically the Northern Isles have been left to the Liberals to govern, either as ‘Liberals’ or so called ‘independents’ (so are we surprised that there has always ben support for the Libdems?).
Its only now under the current Scottish Government, is more autonomy being talked about within a Scottish structure, to enhance and develop transport infrastructures to enable easier access from and to the isles.
A good comparison perhaps is with the Canadian maritime provinces , which, in relation to the seat of federal government are remote, but have close links and an excellent transport infrastructure. Same with Norway and its northern regions and islands, all remote, but again a well developed transport infrastructure.
In addition both the examples of Canada and Norway also show up the differences in broadcast media. Compare coverage in Norway, where each area , including the islands have there own radio broadcaster, part of NRK, or in Canada rural radio stations part of CBC. Regardless of where you are in any of these countries , their fellow countryman knows what’s going on across the country. The same cannot be said in Scotland, where broadcasting has been ‘encouraged’ to remain in the central belt.
Another country I’m very familiar with is Portugal, where the state broadcaster, RTP, not only has studios across the country, but has them on the islands of Madeira and the Azores. Those islands programs are broadcast to the mainland as a daily fact. Within Portugal RTP split the main news that’s broadcast at lunchtime and evening, between Porto and Lisbon, with the news at lunchtime coming from Porto and the evening slot from Lisbon. The point I’m making is this. If they can do it, why cant it be done in Scotland and provide a better integration of ALL communities, both mainland and Island!
@ Dorothy.
Excellent.
It will be no better than the Faroe Islands. Sure, they are semi autonomous, but they totally rely on Denmark.
Not according to the people I met there last year on holiday. They rely on Denmark only for defence and foreign affairs. They get no money from Denmark and send no money to Denmark. Their state retirement pension is £12,000 per year. They’re doing fine. There is some talk about going for complete independence.
Of course maybe it was all lies made up to impress the tourists, I don’t know.
On the ‘pension shock’.
Just to clear some thing up. The intention of IORP I was to allow pension schemes operating in two or more member states to be regulated by the same standards as single-border schemes, thereby solving cross-border issues and creating a framework that would allow pension funds to grow.
Many analysts, sector specialists, and governments (including UK, NL, IE, GE, told the EC that the full funding requirement was a major obstacle to cross-border activity.
In fact, the option of removing full funding was not expected to generate costs. On the contrary, it was expected to generate significant gains. In particular, providing significant economic benefits to employees, employers and IORPs.
So, let’s just get this clear. The IORP II status quo on cross-border full-funding announcement does not increase costs of pensions in an independent Scotland, although costs would have been cheaper if the full cross-border funding requirement was removed.
Having many friends in Shetland, I find them to be very logical and practical people and their attitude is generally one of more autonomy and generally they do not regard themselves as British, but kind of Scottish, their roots go back to the Picts and the Vikings, which is much like much of the East and Highland Scotland.
I know for a fact that they would rather leave the union with Scotland than stay with England.
This is just divide and rule, I remember the ignorant Daily Mail had a column about keeping the outer Hebridees, till someone pointed out the oil is closer to Shetland, they had to pull the story!!
If Shetland wants to be independent, then they should go for it.
But they should realise it will only happen in the event of a Yes vote.
Hud yer horses there about Scotland not getting transport investment. OK there’s the A9 but you need to look at the pricing models and relevance to the social structure they are intended to service.
I think?
Edward
Do you think that is because Portugal wasn’t a particularly nice place to live in, for a while? The Portuguese are feart?
Look in to it for yourself but if benefit (i.e. that which provide gain), is measured in passenger miles…..and there are so many millions of passenger miles traveled in England, then it is obvious that the cost-effective-ness of Scottish transport investment will always be hard to justify legally, if measured by the same One Nation, one-size-fits-all metric.
CameronB
It depends on what you mean by ‘wasn’t a particularly nice place to live in, for a while’
Socially I think it was always nice, but was saddled by an unacceptable form of government, with the one party state until the spring of 1974 and the change to democracy. But realistically that only changed the political scene. In its haste for democracy and the transition to it, resulted in quite a few problems, both at home and abroad.
The Portuguese people are certainly not ‘feart’, they were not feart on that day in April 1974. But it should also be understood that they do debate more than we do, always have, but perhaps that’s down to being able to talk more openly than they did before.
I have a particular affection for Portugal as my wife is Portuguese, so my in laws are Portuguese and I go there very regularly.
Response from Tom Harris. I’m ‘astonished’ at his disregard for someone who actually once voted for him. Needles to say and to paraphrase Stu he can go and make plans for trsvel and solo intercourse.
Dear Mr ——
You are correct in that you do not need to remind me that as an MP I am accountable to my electorate. I am therefore prepared not to receive the support of those who oppose my party’s position on independence and devolution.
In the meantime, I would refer you to the answer I’ve already given to the Nat round robin, and of which you are already aware.
Tom Harris
MP for Glasgow South
Ok, so I think we’ll try again.
Dear Tom,
Thank you for your timely response.
I was particularly unmpressed the manner in which you referred to the campaigners for independence using the perjorative term ‘Nats’.
As I mentioned before, you cannot assume that anyone contacting you requesting answers to these questions is a supporter of independence. I’m quite sure there are as many unionists out there who are baffled by the Labour Party proposals for devolution.
A few more questions just for clarification purposes:
Are you suggesting (as seems apparent from your previous response) that the only people you are willing to discuss these issues with are those who support the unionist cause? If so that would appear to be a clear case of preaching to the converted.
Is it the case that the Scottish Labour Party no longer believes in open honest debate?
I await your response.
Edward
Hope this doesn’t irk but I think I might want to retire there. Lovely people, lots of fish and fantastic ‘seasonal’ climate. Got to consider the war wounds.
When I get it together I fancy doing a TEFL and splitting my time. Scottish summers doing teaching and Portuguese winters (southern) doing teaching maybeez, in my we sea-side bar.
The Portuguese languish does sounds a bit scarey though, in it uniqueness(?), yet beautiful at the same time.
And for those that might think I’m loaded, the holiday was totally blagged. Legally mind you. Just had to persuade the Time Share company that they needed to pay not only my partners flight but the accommodation, as well. The thing is, they had approached her and not myself but I managed to get them to give me the same free-be.
Apparently it was all done with rope.
Received this (eventually) from SPT:
Thank you for your comments, please see below a statement released by SPT.
“SPT advertising contract guidelines state that Subway sites should not be used to campaign or lobby for political benefit. Our advertising agency applies that standard to all commercial bookings but unfortunately this particular ad slipped through their net. The ad was taken down as a result.”
Extract from contract states:
3.22 Approval of Advertisements
…..any advertisement of a political, religious, sectarian, racist or sexual nature or which is likely to bring SPT into disrepute will not be permitted or approved.
I trust this information is helpful in explaining why the advert was withdrawn.
To which Proud Cybernat responded:
To whom it may concern,
Wings Over Scotland is an online media site which promotes mainly political discussions. Other online media outlets such as The Herald, The Daily Record etc also promote political discussion on their sites. I have seen many Herald and Daily Record adverts in Glasgow’s subway over the years. You were happy for those adverts to remain, so why not the WoS ad?
Your decision here and your reasoning behind it smacks of rank hypocrisy and is, in my opinion, politically motivated. You are a disgrace to free speech and to democracy in this country.
Sincerely,
cearc @6:48am
so.did anyone look to the east at dawn? if so what did you see?
cearc bloody ZULUs
I’ve just had the same response from Richard Baker as Holebender did. I haven’t had a peep otherwise.
Well, that’s funny, Holebender’s comment was there just before I posted mine, that’s why I didn’t include any details, as his had the full text, now I can’t see his comment anymore.
What the Hell happened to my previous post?
BTW, I’ve replied to Mr. Baker and asked whether it is him or Mrs. Lamont who is mistaken about the ability to lower income tax rates below those in the rest of the UK.
Now… what the Hell happened to my previous post?
Apologies to John King for my slightly cryptic post this morning re. the Metro ad. Been at work since that post so hadn’t even seen John’s post to reply before now (no internet access at work). I didn’t want to spoil the big surprise. Nice one, Rev Stu.
Reply from Jackie Baillie MSP
Dear Mr Galloway
Thank you for your interest in Labour’s proposals to further extend and enhance devolution for Scotland within the United Kingdom.
The Labour Party is the Party of devolution. Our founder, Keir Hardie, promoted Home Rule in the early 1900s, we participated in the Constitutional Convention in the 1980s and in 1999 we delivered a Scottish Parliament. In 2012, we extended these powers further when we supported the Scotland Act. And in 2016, as a result of these changes, the biggest transfer of fiscal powers since the Act of Union will take place.
In spring 2012, Johann Lamont established a Devolution Commission to examine what could be done to strengthen devolution further. Following two years of deliberations and a yearlong public consultation, we published our proposals on 18th March. The final report of the Commission was endorsed unanimously by Scottish Labour Party Conference on 21st March.
Our starting principle is that we believe in a society in which resources are pooled and shared across the whole country, and in which those with the broadest shoulders and greatest resources contribute most to the support of those in need.
Our report is wide-ranging and includes a number of recommendations, including:
• Further devolution of income tax, discussed in more detail below.
• Devolution of housing benefit and attendance allowance, to align more closely the provision of benefits in an area closely related to devolved services.
• Devolution of the work programme to Scottish local authorities to better meet the needs of local labour markets.
The report of the commission is extensive and also includes proposals to increase the powers available to our island communities, to improve local democratic accountability and to establish better enforcement mechanisms for health and safety in Scotland, including the establishment of a Scottish Health and Safety executive.
On income tax, we believe that the changes made by the Scotland Act 2012 are significant, but there is scope to go further.
• Labour would therefore give the Scottish Parliament the power to raise around £2 billion more in revenues beyond the recent Scotland Act.
• We will do this by widening the variation in income tax in the Scotland Act by half from 10p up to 15p.
• This will mean that three-quarters of basic rate income tax in Scotland will be under the control of the Scottish Parliament.
• The Scottish Parliament could, using the powers of the Scotland Act 2012, and our extension to their scope, choose to lower income tax, below the UK level, across all income tax bands.
• Equally, it would be possible to use the same power to increase tax, above the UK level, across all bands.
• Alternatively, if the Scottish Parliament wished to exercise greater flexibility between bands, Labour’s proposals mean that it would be empowered to do so by applying Scottish Progressive Rates of Income Tax to increase either the higher or additional rates of tax.
Labour’s proposals for further tax powers are designed to enhance fiscal accountability and flexibility at a Scottish level, while preventing destructive income tax competition between Scotland and the rest of the UK.
Labour’s policy is that fair taxation for the highest earners would be achieved by setting the additional rate at 50p.
Thank you for your interest in the final report of our devolution commission. If you require any more detail on our income tax policy, this can be found on page 148 – 151 of the report. If you wish to read the full report, it can be found on the Scottish Labour website at link to scottishlabour.org.uk
Yours sincerely
Jackie Baillie MSP
interesting that Jackie Baillie seems to contradict Johann Lamont (or understands better what is being proposed) in that in her last three bullet points Ms Baillie seems to be suggesting a much greater degree of discretion than Johann Lamont did in her car crash with Gordon Brewer. From what she says it would be possible for Scottish rates to be above or below rUK rates, or indeed (last bullet) “by applying Scottish Progressive Rates of Income Tax to increase either the higher or additional rates of tax.” This sounds nothing like Johann Lamont’s pronouncements – or not as far as I cant tell. Perhaps they ought to sort this out as well? Seems a bit like a currency union or no currency union?
With all these cut ‘n paste responses I am beginning to wonder if nobody in her party is speaking to Ann McKechin. She could always come here and copy her reply to send to me if all else fails…..
Finally: an answer from Ann McKechin. Same cut ‘n paste as all the rest, for the most part, but it does at least include an acknowledgement that it is a party political document and not a draft bill
Dear Ms Martin,
Thank you for your interest in Scottish Labour’s proposals to further extend and enhance devolution for Scotland within the United Kingdom.
As a Labour elected representative I am proud that my party is the leading political party of devolution. Our founder, Keir Hardie, promoted Home Rule in the early 1900s, we participated in the Constitutional Convention in the 1980s and in 1999 we delivered a Scottish Parliament. In 2012, we extended these powers further when we supported the Scotland Act. And in 2016, as a result of these changes, the biggest transfer of fiscal powers since the Act of Union will take place.
In spring 2012, our party established a Devolution Commission to examine what could be done to strengthen devolution further. Following two years of deliberations and a yearlong public consultation, the party published its proposals on 18th March. The final report of the Commission was endorsed unanimously by Scottish Labour Party Conference on 21st March.
The starting principle is a society in which resources are pooled and shared across the whole country, and in which those with the broadest shoulders and greatest resources contribute most to the support of those in need.
The report is wide-ranging and includes within its recommendations:
· Further devolution of income tax.
· Devolution of housing benefit and attendance allowance, to align more closely the provision of benefits in an area closely related to devolved services.
· Devolution of the work programme to Scottish local authorities to better meet the needs of local labour markets.
The report also includes proposals to increase the powers available to our island communities, to improve local democratic accountability and to establish better enforcement mechanisms for health and safety in Scotland, including the establishment of a Scottish Health and Safety executive.
On income tax, the report recognises that the changes made by the Scotland Act 2012 are significant, but there is scope to go further. The proposals for further tax powers are designed to enhance fiscal accountability and flexibility at a Scottish level, while preventing destructive income tax competition between Scotland and the rest of the UK.
You may also be aware that the party’s current policy is that fair taxation for the highest earners would be achieved by setting the additional rate at 50p which I hope you would support. The party’s new proposals for Scotland-
· would give the Scottish Parliament the power to raise around £2 billion more in revenues beyond the recent Scotland Act.
· by widening the variation in income tax in the Scotland Act by half from 10p up to 15p so that that three-quarters of basic rate income tax in Scotland will be under the control of the Scottish Parliament.
· Would permit the Scottish Parliament using the powers of the Scotland Act 2012, and the proposed extension to their scope, to choose to lower income tax, below the UK level, across all income tax bands.
· Equally, it would be possible to use the same power to increase tax, above the UK level, across all bands.
· Alternatively, if the Scottish Parliament wished to exercise greater flexibility between bands, Labour’s proposals mean that it would be empowered to do so by applying Scottish Progressive Rates of Income Tax to increase either the higher or additional rates of tax.
The report which is a party political document rather than a detailed parliamentary Bill, lays down the broad general principles of change. I would also remind you in reply to one of the points raised by your letter that the Scottish Parliament since its creation has always had the power have a lower basic income tax than the rest of the UK but has simply chosen not to use it. More information can be found on page 148 – 151 of the report which can be found at this link – link to scottishlabour.org.uk
Yours sincerely
ann_signature_webres.png
Ann McKechin MP
Got this from Jayne Baxterley yesterday:
Thank you for taking the time to contact me.
I have received a small number of emails, with very similar or identical wording to your own, from constituents in Mid Scotland and Fife regarding Labour’s proposals as outlined in the Devolution Commission Report. I hope the following is helpful to you.
Don’t you just love the “small”?
Small as in petty, childish.
As many have said, tick tock, taxi for Labour.
I have written to Ann McKechin again as follows
Thank you for your reply to my enquiries.
Having read it I was struck by the fact that you state:
” The proposals for further tax powers are designed to enhance fiscal accountability and flexibility at a Scottish level, while preventing destructive income tax competition between Scotland and the rest of the UK.”
And also:
“Would permit the Scottish Parliament using the powers of the Scotland Act 2012, and the proposed extension to their scope, to choose to lower income tax, below the UK level, across all income tax bands”
How does the power prevent income tax competition if the second statement is true?
Secondly, I see that you propose to “devolve the work programme” Since that is an iniquitous programme in every way it seems to me you would be better pledging to abolish it rather than devolve it. However I do not see your name on the list of Labour MP’s who voted against the Benefits Cap, so I assume you did not. It seems to me that this indicates that you have bought into the tory narrative which demonises the poor and which seeks to harm the most vulnerable in our society while escaping responsibility. Devolving the Bedroom tax furthers that agenda also, in my opinion.
I will let you know if I get a response