Wings Over Scotland

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier if MPs simply answered the questions sent by their electorate?

Tom Harris MP doesn’t seem to grasp the concept of elected representatives.

Appalling, but not unexpected. The contempt Labour representatives have for their constituents (whether they voted Labour or not) has always been palpable. And, when we look at the recent by-elections in Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath, can anyone really blame the likes of Harris for thinking they can say as they please?

However, in his reply Harris seems sure that a Yes vote in September will expel Scotland from the EU. Perhaps a follow-up query could ask him to outline the process for Scotland’s expulsion?

Are the political parties not supposed to be winning our votes with promises of jam tomorrow. Tell him you don’t recognize the jar placed in front of you as food and you would like confirmation that eating it won’t have you up all night with diarrhoea.

Not much of a tax power when you can only raise it which Mr. Harris conveniently didn’t remind us about.

Wait a minute. SNP haven’t been the government since 1999, so obviously Labour didn’t use tax varying powers either!

I demand to know why THEY didn’t…

I am pretty certain that will be the corporate answer spewed out of the SLAB machine.

They JUST DON’T GET IT do they?

If they are going to spend two whole years producing a pile of steaming keich, the least they can do is poke it with a stick and see what’s underneath.

The great unwashed aren’t complete simpletons and recognise BS when they see/hear it. Our elected REPRESENTATIVES are doing a damn fine job of displaying their arrogance and complete lack of respect for the people who pay their salaries and expenses.

I just hope there aren’t too many folks out there going a funny colour because they’re still holding the breath.

arrrgghhhhh!

Yeah those tax varying powers…

… Just how often did Labour or the Libdems exercise them between 99 and 07?

I was almost typing “Least he replied!” considering the blank response from many other Labour representatives but then I realised I should say “He replied least”

Labour representatives…Representing Labour. End of.

“separate from the UK and the EU”

Bugger me, more out of touch than I realised. Fair enough, I’m English and have been living abroad until last year, but boy have I gotten this all arse over tit.

We’re voting on conscious separation from the UK and the EU?

if the Government had used the tax varying powers any revenue raised would have been deducted from the block grant leaving them right back at square one.

Are you sure about this? I don’t think that’s right. Otherwise, what would have been the point of the SNP’s “a penny for Scotland” campaign slogan? I thought the point was that the power was useless because it would have cost too much to implement, and also because it hit the ordinary Joe with no way of raising the higher rate.

I’m genuinely unsure though and I’d welcome enlightenment. Actually I’d welcome an authoritative article on the subject of tax-raising powers and the block grant.

Well, at least he got the ball rolling.

When all of the replies are assembled it should make a fascinating, albeit slender read, and be an historical document of some value.

(Just struck me there – this is all a wee bit reminiscent of the Panini albums, waiting to see which ones you’ll get in the next packet, whether you’ll be left with more dodgy doublers you hope to swap in school…‘Ach, bummer, I’ve already got five of him…’

I’m a bit confused…. I thought I was going to be voting to be a sovereign nation free from Westminster control. Nobody told me I was voting “whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK and the EU”.

I don’t care if I’m better off or not. I want to be a neighbour (and a friend) rather than a subjugated citizen without an identity, a voice or proper representation in parliament.

Tom Harris walks into the House of Commons bar.
The barman says “What you having?”
Harris tells the bar manager that Stewart Hosie was wearing brown shoes with a black suit the previous Friday.
The barman resigns.

“Thank you for the letter, the text of which you copied from wingsoverscotland.com.”

This would be so much better if he had been able to keep his annoyance in check and start with simply “Thank you for the letter.” This just looks petulant.

“In the event of Scottish voters rejecting independence, there will no doubt be an extended debate about the future of devolution.”

Just as, after the A/V referendum, the discussion about Electoral Reform continued.

Just as.

Desimond, I think you’re right. However, it just shows what dim bulbs they are. I mean, nobody imagined for five seconds that they wouldn’t know what triggered the emails. They’re just digging themselves in even deeper.

Whoever received this should write back pointing out that Labour were in charge from 1999 to 2007, not the SNP.

Can Mr. Harris explain why Labour didn’t use the tax raising powers?

wonder how many scotish labour spivs wake up in a cold sweat having nightmares about wings over scotland, keep at them stu, they deserve to be put out of existence.

The best bit is that having given ANY kind of response, our lords and masters can now be drawn into conversation. No more template letters! Free and frank conversations with the Scottish people! Maybe start by asking why the assumption of nationalism. Why not help us understand how Labour’s proposals will actually improve lives in Scotland? We accept that this is just one party’s proposal, but since a majority of Scots still vote Labour at Scottish elections, isn’t it right that we should understand how they hope to change our constitution?

“it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate”

Gives away his dosh orientated thinking – ‘better off’ – subliminally finacially better off, I suspect he means.

Well no, it’s about whether we Scots running Scotland for ourselves can make build a more just and equal society.

We’ve tried London rule. We’ve tried grace and favour devolved from London limited powers rule. Time to move forward.

That is an awfully long branch that Tom Harris has climbed along. What will be his excuse when EU entry is achieved without much difficulty and without us having to turf out all EU citizens including 700K English, 50K Welsh etc?

Same goes for the currency. Whether or not Westminster types continue with their embargo on refusing a CU, Scotland will be just fine.We have more options than them and that is what they don’t seem to realise. For Scottish MPs the dole queue beckons. People like Danny Alexander will be run out of town if my sense of the political vibes around me are anything to go by.

Dear Mr Harris

Thank you for your response, we’ll just mark you down as a ‘Don’t Know’, shall we?

yours

The people of Scotland

A serious* question for all you lucky voters living in Glasgow South; who do you think would serve you best as your MP?

A) Tom Harris

B) Keith Harris

C) Orville

D) Marcel Marceau

*levels of seriousness may fall as well as rise in an independent Scotland.

Tom Harris wrote: “While I understand why some are fixated on tax raising powers the SNP Government, at least, seems to consider such matters as irrelevant, since it has declined to use the tax varying powers Holyrood has had since 1999.”

Has Harris forgotten that for eight of those years from 1999 his own party were running the show and also declined to use the said tax varying powers. Labour, it seems, must also have considered such matters irrelevant.

“Has Harris forgotten that for eight of those years from 1999 his own party were running the show”

no, he is deliberately misleading you.

I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers: it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK and the EU.

Forgive me if I’m being obtuse, but is that not an actual lie on Mr. Harris’ part?

“Separate from the UK” is bad enough – it makes no sense for the same reason a spouse leaving doesn’t mean they’re “separate from the marriage” – but the EU? That’s nowhere on the referendum ballot, and it is incredibly disingenuous of Harris to imply otherwise to any of his constituents, even those of a “nationalist bent.”

I am incredibly angry with this response.

It would have been better if he had let Orville reply.

John

Beat me to it.

Bah.

That was one of the first things I noticed too was wghen are we to separate from the EU ?
I was in the hospital last week, did I miss some major announcement or something
Can someone fill me in on anything important I might have missed ???

Seems to me there’s a danger of playing along with the “oh look a squirrel” nature of that reply. The last thing anyone should be doing in my opinion is engaging in a dialogue about the irrelevancies in the email.

The original emails were asking for specific information. It has not been provided. Rather than getting into a pointless argument about the EU or the use of the 3p rate, keep pressing for the original questions to be answered.

Jeez, what a creep. Here’s my reply:

Dear Mr Harris

Thanks for your reply, as I wasn’t expecting one.

First, I did obtain the text of my letter from Wings Over Scotland. So what? Who cares about that, apart from you it seems? I can’t help infer from that that you think I’m too stupid to write one of my own. It saddens me that you, my elected representative, thinks that, but be assured, its questions and concerns are mine also.

Second, you can point out anything you like, as long as you answer my questions about your party’s taxation proposals for my country. I look forward to your next letter full of answers.

Third, I don’t care that no Scottish government has ever used the tax varying powers. Why you single out SNP governments is a puzzle to me. Perhaps, in addition to your assumptions about my letter writing capabilities, you make assumptions about my political affiliations too.

Fourth, I believe that the reason people are unhappy about your commission’s proposals is that they don’t understand them. At least I certainly don’t. They appear ill-thought-out, illogical and designed, weirdly, to actually hamstring future Scottish Labour governments by giving them the ability to raise taxes but not lower them.

Perhaps my understanding is wrong. But that’s why I asked you for help.

I look forward to your answers.

Drat “commissioned”

That second paragraph is a peach. Confirms what we all know- vote No get nothing (or as it’s called in politics, an “extended debate”)

@James Arriere

I posted about this report on the previous thread . It was reported very quickly and have been waiting for more , but unfortunately nothing yet. The EU are seemingly going to make it difficult for both an Independent Scotland and RUk to keep the price of future pensions at the same level . They will be more expensive !!!

@ Les Wilson

I think you have Neil Findlay bang to rights for lying to you in an email!

Now I’m a long way from Glasgow but I’m prepared to wager that SPT have not removed all advertising from the trains.

Left this for you on previous thread… 🙂

Goldenayr and others above have mentioned a possible link between the Sc Gov’s “astonishing” SVR tax varying powers of +-3p, and whether any extra money raised by this would be clawed back by Westminster, through a reduction in the Barnett Formula (“block grant”). Here is a link to a blog by Alan Trench on the subject:

link to devolutionmatters.wordpress.com

In a comment, he basically says there is no Barnett reduction since:

“the Statement of Funding Policy was framed so that revenue raised by the SVR would be ADDITIONAL to the block grant, subject to the costs of collection. That contrasts with what might happen if there were to be hefty increases in Council Tax or Non Domestic Rate, where the Treasury gave itself the right to claw back part or all of any ‘excessive’ increase.”

…or at least that’s the way Orville told it to me. 😉

P.S. to john king and Seasick Dave, great minds think alike!

faolie says:
27 March, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Jeez, what a creep. Here’s my reply:

Great letter!

Boorach, it’s standard. I get it from Christine Grahame’s email every time, irrespective of what the message is about.

Interesting the no content of the reply.

When I wrote to my MP concerning the Health Bill for the NHS in England I got a substantial detailed reply of what was planned.

He was from the LibDems, though I wouldn’t vote for them now under any circumstances, it was a full reply.

However as a footnote all the safeguards etc described in the letter I got didn’t last more than a few months, so worth bearing in mind, a concrete example of promises in Westminster don’t mean much when the politics start happening.

I’ve just sent this email to Tom Harris im sure I’ll get the info 🙂

Dear Tom

I understand that you have previously been asked the questions below and have failed to provide answers.  As my elected representative at Westminster I request that you provide straight answers to these questions. 

 Whilst answering these questions you may wish to consider not assuming that I am requesting this information because I support independence.  Whether or not I support independence is not relevant to unravelling the unholy mess that is the Labour Party Devolution proposals. 

I need not remind you that as an MP you ARE accountable to your constituents and failure to provide straight answers would reflect badly on you. So without further ado (yes, these questions are from WoS – you dont need to mention that in your response):

Stu’s questiobs appended

O/t

Just seen BBC Scotland weather . They had some school girls learning all about the weather and how to present it . Aww the nice ! Hope there was No BIAS there! I’m keeping my beady eye on you BBC Scotland!

O/T just watched a PP Broadcast for the SG. Excellent stuff!

On the pensions question, John Swinney said on Reporting Scotland that their was not any major problems with today’s EU announcement.

He said all it done was it took the plan back to what it was in November.

He didn’t seem to bothered about today’s story.

Anyone up to speed on this, to give a quick no bull reply.

Excellent production by the SNP. The broadcast demonstrates the rainbow of optimism and possibilities as against the dark cloud of what lies in wait for us, if we fail to have the courage.

By conflating the indy vote with the EU it looks like Tom Harris has started a meme. Here’s mine, what’s your take?

“I should point out that September’s vote is not a choice between independence and Labour’s vision of increased devolution of powers: it is about whether or not Scotland would be better off separate from the UK with its airports bombed by the RAF”

O/ T This one’s for a MR Tom Harris MP ( Ahem !!)

Last night, Glasgow Caledonian University once again opened it’s doors, to host another debate on Scotland’s future.

The debate was open to the wider public and such was the demand for tickets that the event – organised by the Reconnecting Politics Network – had to be moved to the University’s large refectory extension. No less than approximately 120 were in attendance.

Before the debate, attendees were asked ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ ‘Yes, No or Don’t know’.

Before the debate, in the first ballot, the results were: Yes – 50%
No – 27%, and Undecided – 23%.

Then, after a 90-minute debate, where the Yes side was represented by SNP MSP Sandra White and the Scottish Green Party co-convener, Patrick Harvie, a second ballot was taken; it asked the same question as the first ballot.

The results were: Yes – 62%, No – 30%, and Undecided – 8%.

(From Yes Scotland GCU facebook)

Well done to the ‘Scots’ students at GCU !

Sorry couldn’t resist; Tom the kids are switching on to a new future without Labour MP sellouts.

I have just received an e-mail from my local msp Lindsey Roy stating that he will look into my Questions and he will get back to me probably next week, I will keep you informed, Not had any response to the other four that i wrote to so far

New poster here, hello all…

Let’s be charitable; Mr Harris is mixing up his referendum questions and confusing the one on Sept 18 with the one to come after the next Westminster elections. There surely is no other explanation because an elected representative would not lie to a constituent like that, now, would he?

@FlowerofScotland
I just looked at iPlayer online and at the end of Reporting Scotland was offered a party political broadcast by the Alliance party of Northern Ireland. WTF?

A search for ‘party political’ turned up 6 results. The only SNP one was from 30/1.

A SNAFU? I doubt it. I’m off to look up the fed on the telly.

It would appear something WoS is going down tomorrow somewhere on the east coast. Tweets by Stu. It’s an “outdoor event”. I hope it’s Aberdeen.