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Think of a number

Posted on September 30, 2013 by

Sorry, folks. We haven’t quite managed to get going today. We’ve got a cold, the weather’s grey and miserable, and watching the TV feels like being stuck in a bad dream you can’t wake up from, as the Tories look for new ways to be evil and Labour’s response isn’t to condemn their grotesque, neo-feudal plans for the people of Britain, but to say “Hey, you’re stealing our ideas!”

(The ever-delightful Liam Byrne, there, apparently totally unashamed to say that “this announcement is little more than reheating of a Labour scheme – ‘Work for your Benefits’ – which the Tories scrapped when they came into power”.)

cpcdavidson

Beset by this avalanche of vile, spiteful idiocy (all of which was allowed to pass unchallenged by a subservient BBC), our germ-weakened mind has reeled like a punch-drunk boxer. But we’re not yet quite so addled and bewildered that the likes of Ruth Davidson can get anything past us.

This is an extract from a speech the Scottish Tory leader gave to perhaps as many as 30 people at the Conservative Party conference this afternoon:

“And what about all those [SNP] promises? Here’s just a few of them. 

Employing more Border Agency staff… No idea how much it would cost.

…Introducing a fuel duty regulator. What’s the price tag? Can’t say, won’t say.

…Undercutting the UK’s rate of Corporation Tax by 3%… Higher pay for Scottish armed forces personnel…Renewable subsidies…The list goes on

And let’s not forget their bolt-from-the-blue policy of renationalising the Royal Mail, a move so unexpected that John Swinney apparently knew nothing about it in advance.

It took three attempts in the debating chamber of the Scottish Parliament to get Alex Salmond to make this admission. I think it might take a few more attempts than that to drag out of him the cost of his off-the-cuff policy-making.

So what does it all add up to? £32 billion of spending pledges without any hint of where the money would come from to pay for it all.”

Hang on a minute. How can you reel off a list of things you say nobody knows the price of, but then say that they add up to £32bn? How much does Ruth Davidson think these extra Border Agency staff (whose numbers we’ve never actually heard the SNP promise to increase) are going to be getting paid, exactly? How big is this army pay rise going to be?

The sell-off of the entire UK Royal Mail is being projected to generate “up to” £3 billion. It would seem logical to assume the Scottish component that an independent Scotland would be buying back would therefore amount to no more than a tenth of that (slightly higher than a population share due to the greater expense of servicing remote areas), so let’s say £300m.

The Tories claim that renewable energy subsidies are currently worth £530m a year to Scotland. But that money currently comes out of what Scotland contributes to the UK – it’s not a new expense, so it’s hard to put any sort of meaningful figure to it. But the Tories claim it’s five times what our population share would merit, so let’s count four-fifths of it and say it’s £424m.

Corporation Tax receipts in Scotland are estimated at around £2.5-3bn a year at the current rate of 26%. Cutting that by three percentage points (or 12%) would therefore logically entail a drop – assuming the plan totally failed to incentivise extra investment – of something in the order of £320m a year.

So far, then, we’re struggling to get anywhere much past £1bn, not the £32bn Ruth Davidson pulled out of a dark place we don’t want to think about in our delicate condition. Can anyone fill in the blanks? We need to get some more Strepsils.

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    104 to “Think of a number”

    1. G H Graham says:

      Stairheid (Candidate for First Minister of Scotland) says …
      “Ach, gie the wee yin a break, she wiz a pyoopil in ma class when she wiz daein maths ‘n ‘at so isnae the smart arse she thinks she is when it comes tae numbers.”

    2. The £32bn claim is detailed here:
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10326954/SNPs-32-billion-of-independence-spending-pledges.html

      the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) estimated it would require £6 billion of extra funding over a decade.

      So £600m a year, not £6bn a year, then? We could raise that with a £1 tax on every bottle of whisky we export, as proposed by the Jimmy Reid Foundation.

      Mr Salmond has also promised to cut corporation tax by three percentage points, which would cost £385 million per year.

      Unless of course it attracted more businesses, in which case it could lead to an increase in the tax take – that is certainly the government’s intention with the cut.

      Among the other multi-billion pound spending commitments in the Better Together analysis are setting up new Scottish intelligence and security services, and the estimated £20 billion cost of tax relief for North Sea oil and gas decommissioning.

      So £20bn of the £32bn is the “cost” of North Sea oil (Poor us, having all that oil! It is a disaster!).
      And they have included their own estimates of the one-off costs of creating a new state.

    3. cath says:

      without any hint of where the money would come from to pay for it”
       
      Does she really think people in Scotland don’t pay taxes and our resources are worthless? Government’s priorities will be paid for the same way any other country pays for them – by keeping its own tax take rather than sending it all to the capital of another country!

    4. Desimond says:

      This says  all we need to know how much the Tories care about Scotland.

      Dave wont even debate and the Tories wont even let Ruth in the main hall.

      Spitting Images about Tories viewing Scotland as ” The Testing Zone”…true then and true now.

    5. cath says:

      Scotland? Is that a shoe shop?
      Thatcher on Spitting Image

    6. iain taylor (not that one) says:

      The cut in corporation tax can be self funding. We’ll have our own new legislation, which can plug the collection gaps the WM politicos are so delighted to allow (because they and their chums get to benefit).
      We’ll have our own new income tax laws too. Another opportunity to increase the tax collected and/or cut rates. 

    7. AlexMontrose says:

      After the sell off Royal Mail and 75,000 posties are made redundant, who will deliver the mail to the Highlands and Islands?
      I guess it will be the unemployed posties, working for their brew money.
      The sneaky barstewards.

    8. velofello says:

      Do we really have to delve into these tiresome silly figures and prove them wrong? Wouldn’t just shouting nonsense do? Trouble of course being that neither MSM nor the BBC are listening.

    9. MajorBloodnok says:

      I think the OBR should be auditing her claims.  Or something.

    10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The £32bn claim is detailed here:”

      Ah, good catch, Alistair. Have also corrected my clanger on the Corporation Tax reduction.

      Why “over a decade”, though? In for a penny’s worth of idiotic bullshit, in for a pound – why not a century?

    11. Bob Duncan says:

      Perhaps Ruthy means £32 bn “over the next 30 years”, as was the case with the “border effect” which was to cost each family £2000 over the same period.

    12. Macart says:

      No, no… I’m pretty certain their leadership are pretty much sociopaths with a bent for overly dramatic and highly exaggerated speeches. 😉

    13. Tris says:

      She’s not used to crowds of that size.

    14. Elizabeth Sutherland says:

      Hope you get well soon Rev.
      AH!!!  Good Scottish water and cold air cleans the blood and brain of all the Westminster SH**E. Hot Tody and honey as often as possible should put you on your metal again.

    15. Gordon Smith says:

      The FM did not take three attempts to be prompted to take Royal Mail back into public ownership, that was the BBC’s “News” comment and edited highlights that inferred  that. The FM said the First , second and third time, when asked, he would take it into public ownership.  You missed that mis-truth rev?
       

    16. beachthistle says:

      Coming out the morn’s morn:
      http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/announcements/22-07-13.htm

      “Publishing UK tax receipts split by England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
      We would like to announce our intention to produce a new HMRC Official Statistics publication on UK tax receipts split by England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. This will extend the UK-wide data that HMRC currently produces, and will be provided for all of HMRC’s taxes plus tax credits and child benefit expenditure. It will be an annual publication with estimates initially up to 2012-13.
      This publication will be released on Wednesday 2 October at 9:30 am.”

      Hopefully this will help shine a light on air-plucked numbers, give some better figures on which to base debunkers on – unless they have recorded taxes etc. according to where head offices of businesses are, and not where people actually work…

    17. ianbrotherhood says:

      Aye, Rev, get yirsel another Strepsil. Ruthie can go suck a Fisherman’s Friend. And Obsorne will have to made do with a Zoob.

    18. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “We would like to announce our intention to produce a new HMRC Official Statistics publication on UK tax receipts split by England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.”

      I trust I’m not the only one immediately suspicious of the motivation behind this decision?

    19. handclapping says:

      And on Ruthie’s other hand we have Gideon “austerity” Osborne threatening to make us work for our benefits. Even the pensioners Gideon?
       
      Next step cut the Housing Benefit of anybody on JSA and offer alternative accomodation in shared multi-occupation pads which, on the same basis as Job Centres, will be called Workhouses.
       
      Victorian values indeed. Just like “One Nation”. Scotland in the 21st century 🙁

    20. HandandShrimp says:

      Ruth is a total chancer. She rattled on at a hundred miles an hour this morning and said absolutely nothing other than she wasn’t going to fall into the same “something for nothing” bear trap that Lamont fell into (she isn’t totally daft then). The complete bullshit bingo from these clowns tell us that independence is all too scarily possible from their perspective and therefore total lies are the order of the day.

    21. tartanfever says:

      Rev, saw last week a news story, (think it may actually have been the BBC) saying so far the Scottish Government has spent a total of £209m on renewable subsidies.
      I’ll have a bash at finding a link.

    22. ianbrotherhood says:

      The correct spelling is, of course, ‘Zube’:
      http://www.historyworld.co.uk/content/zube4.jpg

    23. Keith Brodie says:

      I think that £600million pa for pensions is still a bit of an exaggeration. The 2011 census puts 376,000 people in the 50-54 age group (the group that would be first affected by the raising of the pensionable age in 2026). Assuming that they are evenly distributed over that age group I would estimate the cost as:-
       
      72,500 x £110.15 x 52 = £430,730,560 per annum
       
      £431million is rather a lot of money – but it is not £600million by any stretch of the imagination. If fact £600million overstates the figure by 39%.

    24. Sneddon says:

      ‘She’s not used to crowds of that size’ 🙂
      Everything Ruth says can be shot dowm by any 10 year old.  Poor old Ruth, another dumb patsy for Cameron

    25. tartanfever says:

      Scottish government spending on renewables £200m plus another £103m pledged at the beginning of last year, this is over a four year period.
      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2012/03/renewableenergyinvestmentfund22032012

    26. Craig P says:

      Cath – yes, Ruth really does think only 12% of taxpayers are net contributors to society, the rest of us are spongers. 
       
      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ruth-davidson-branded-miss-romney-1366898
       
      Rev Stu – why over a decade… because journalists can’t count, same as politicians?

    27. Sneddon says:

      Asise from personal taxes it would be nigh near impossible to record the source of a company’s income from the county’s in the UK.  Most are HQ’d in England or abroad.  Will they also differentiate taxes such as transmission charges, court fines etc currently paid direct to theb Treasury.  I’m cynical about this.unless they can produce accurately the breakdown of all taxes by area to an agreed methodology, seen by the public, it’s just another half arsed attempt to influence the indy debate.  Shouldn’t HMRC be out collecting what’s not been paid anyway instead.

    28. muttley79 says:

      @cath
       
      Does she really think people in Scotland don’t pay taxes and our resources are worthless?
       
      Unfortunately Ruth Davidson gives the distinct impression of being a cringing Jockney, just like the rest of the Scottish Unionists.  And she did not even get to say her speech in the main hall.  Ooft!!

    29. beachthistle says:

      “I trust I’m not the only one immediately suspicious of the motivation behind this decision?”

      No you are not.

      That was one of the reasons I posted it. I hope the Yes campaign, the Scottish government, SNP, Yes movement experts/academics, etc. are primed for this, ready to quickly analyse (if they haven’t been given prior-sight) and able to counteract any anti-Independence spin that will accompany the release.

      Of course it could all turn out to be a GERS-esque foot-shoot for the UK government and establishment – for instance if it shows that taxes paid on exports of Scottish produce (such as whisky) are currently recorded in England’s HMRC figures because of where shipped from.

    30. Craig P says:

      And Rev, get well soon!
       
      Beach thistle , interesting link. Wonder if there will still be ‘ex-regio’ income (e.g. oil) and ‘UK benefit’ expenditure (e.g. London’s sewers) to continue to skew the headline stats?

    31. Jingly Jangly says:

      Re the pensions remember we will effectively have a ten plus year pensions holiday to
      build up a pensions fund

    32. beachthistle says:

      @Craig P  Dunno answer(s) to that. I used to be a UK civil servant but was on the expenditure side of things (DFID) not revenue collection…
      For anybody wanting to get primed for Wednesday’s release of the country breakdown figures by HMRC, here are some UK-wide figures:
      general
      http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/receipts/receipts-stats.pdf
      and oil & gas
      http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/prt.htm#1
      http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/prt/table11-11.pdf

    33. Jakey Rowling says:

      OT but just heard on BBC R2 that the Theresa May has commited to take the UK out of the European Human Rights Convention. I mean she has a point….who needs Human Rights? Clearly a waste of money…

    34. Horacesaysyes says:

      Nope, Rev, you are certainly not the only one. These figures will need to be looked at very closely indeed!

    35. handclapping says:

      Isn’t it queer how a truly political promise like ‘we will examine the case for a reduction in the 67 age limit’ becomes an unprovided for pledge of £6bn? You can quibble about the numbers especially as they are predicated on continuing outmigration from Scotland when the Census shows inmigration but the sheer dishonesty of making a promise of examination into pledge to execute escapes attention
       
      What these sorts of outrage shew is that they do not realise that they are publicising the very thing they want to prevent which is that after Yes we can decide not to raise the pension age to 67 but if we No then we can’t.

    36. handclapping says:

      I wonder if T May realises that the ECHR is embedded in the constitution of our Parliament and, by extension, law. Do you think we can go back to making prisoners slop out and recover all those payments for cruel and inhumane treatment?

    37. muttley79 says:

      One thing is clear in regards to the Tory party conference: If we vote No next year then we are going to be utterly, utterly fucked.  I hope this thought starts to concentrate the minds of at least 20 per cent of the Scottish electorate, who are either soft Nos, or don’t knows at the moment.  If it does not, and people do not waken up, then I shudder to think what the consequences will be.

    38. handclapping says:

      PS Poor Stu, hope you are better soon. Does us forcing you, an immigrant to England, to work when you’re ill come under cruel and inhumane treatment? 🙂

    39. HandandShrimp says:

      The lurch further to the right on getting tough on immigrants and the unemployed plus committing to leaving the ECHR is deliberate attempt to get the 10% or so of their vote lost to UKIP. If Cameron announces a EU referendum date in 2017 then the slate will be complete.
       
      If we vote No we are seriously in danger of ending up in a right wing neo-conservative wet dream. I’m not for that one wee bit.

    40. EphemeralDeception says:

      Its funny I only ever see speculation on NEW costs that suddenly appear when Scotland becomes independent.  All these costs and no revenue, since revenue is never discussed. 
       
      Scotland suddenly has to think about border control costs since today they are all managed for free from South of the ‘border’ as part of the benevolent UK, it seems. It is really shocking, all these various state-wide services that are (mis)managed for us by the UK on our behalf and… for… FREE.  Maybe thats why there is so much room for improvement, but you still  can’t beat free?
       
      Also, maybe I am going out on a limb here but perhaps higher salaries for armed forces could be scraped out of the billions saved from removing the costs of trident?
       
       

    41. scottish_skier says:

      The lurch further to the right on getting tough on immigrants and the unemployed plus committing to leaving the ECHR is deliberate attempt to get the 10% or so of their vote lost to UKIP.
       
      The Tory conference so far appears to be a workshop on how to get Scotland to vote Yes. 

    42. muttley79 says:

      @HandandShrimp
       
      I have been reading some comments on the Guardian CiF.  They genuinely think Miliband is going to win the next election for Labour, and is the real deal!  It is really quite bizarre…
       
      If we vote No then I genuinely afraid of the consequences for Scotland.  It will not just be a hammer blow for morale, we will have to face the wrath of the British state.  This really is looking like a repulsive Tory regime.  It is increasingly authoritarian, and is going out of its way to hit the poor and vulnerable.  I honestly can’t imagine why up to 50 per cent of the Scottish electorate want to vote for the Union at the moment.  What is the attraction in being part of the British state anyway?  We are heading back towards almost slavery, than to a progressive democratic state under the Tories.  Time to waken up people of Scotland!!..   

    43. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      V I R U S   A L E R T – Yes, after its 10 day incubation period the nasty natz virus has erupted in the Rev’s nasal and sinal pathways. Worried Wossers and WingNuts are reported to be burning candles at the Caesar!nach monument and holding all night vigils inside the hostelry. Singing of ancient healing hymns will be conducted by Major Bloodnock, with the Gin and Beans Garlic Choir.
      I am sure we all wish the Rev a speedy recovery but in the meantime :
      REV, YOU ARE QUARANTINED.

    44. Bugger [the Panda] says:

      Strepsils eh,
       
      I blame the sauce with salt on rubbish chips.

    45. ScotsCanuck says:

      …………… Rev, given your present affliction I would recommend a Hot Toddy, as opposed to a “dim toady”
      My Medical Qualifications are in the post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

    46. Smudge says:

      In my 32 years since leaving school I’ve been unemployed for 3 weeks but what really scares me is this (ultra) right wing agenda of trying to divide the electorate by creating an underclass whether that’s immigrants, the unemployed or the disabled. 
      hopefully others are starting to wake up to what a no vote means for Scotland.

    47. JLT says:

      I’m going off topic here (apologies Rev), but I tell you what, the UK media appear to have picked up what happened at Ibrox on Saturday, and apart from, ‘how was this allowed to happen with the British Troops?’, they are also asking serious questions about the Scottish media. In other words …’Why is this not being reported, and WILL they report it to the Scottish public?’ Seems the rUK are not amused.

      So far, Channel 4 news, as well as The Guardian, and The Scotman have mentioned it. Irish papers seem to be over it, as well as a few independent online newspapers. However, not a peep from the Scottish media, or the major newspapers in Glasgow.

      This could get interesting if the English explode in anger at what will be perceived as the British Troops being made fools of at a Scottish ground. How the Scottish media squirm out of this if it goes viral and global could be very, very embarrassing …as well as interesting for us.

    48. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Best wishes for a speedy recovery Stu.
       
      It took three attempts in the debating chamber of the Scottish Parliament to get Alex Salmond to make this admission. I think it might take a few more attempts than that to drag out of him the cost of his off-the-cuff policy-making.”
       
      No Ruthie you are too dumb too stupid too ignorant an excuse of a politician it did NOT take three attempts to get Alex Salmond to admit anything about the renationalisation of the Royal Mail. What took three attempts was for you and your best buddies, a.k.a. Labour, to get it through your thickest of thick skulls that in an Independent Scotland the Royal Mail would be renationalised.
      The fact it took THREE attempts for you and your cohorts to actually understand what was being said is a pitiful description of the lack of intellect currently exhibited by you and Lamont!

    49. Smudge says:

      Wheres the like button
       

    50. Sneddon says:

      BtP- Salt and sauce cures everything (except decapitation)  The Rev is just having withdrawl symptons from said condiment.  I’m sure the Red Cross can arrange a drop.

    51. jim mitchell says:

      Ruth Davidson may well be as dumb as most of us believe, but even she is not that dumb as to forget the only ones who were likely to agree with her, namely the folk in the hall, that was the audience, however small, she was aiming at.

      I have always thought that the leaders of the unionist parties Scottish sections were willing to take patronisation to a new low, just to get a chance to appear at the parties BIG conference, sadly for Ruth it was all just vanity as nobody in Scotland is listening to her anyway. 

      It will be interesting for us as to how the Labour section of Better Together go about attacking the Tories over their government wish list when they are currently bed-fellows, even the Media might find it a bit difficult to decide whether to stick or twist on this one!

    52. Dramfineday says:

      Get well soon Rev! Try a large dram of something, add a splodge of honey and a squeeze of lemon and warm it gently to get the vapours going. Heat the bed, get in it, drink the dram, pull the covers over your head and let the temperature rise. Do Not take any temperature lowering compounds – let the body do its business and cook the little so and so’s.

      If that fails, at least you’ll know you’ve gone to bed miserable but you couldn’t care less!

      Anent Action Krankie – she was set up and fine tuned by the BBC. The lying and distortion chip was probably overlooked when she was decommissioned into the tory party.

      Don’t have nightmares now, were all in the next room!

    53. Kirriereoch says:

      @JLT
       
      but I tell you what, the UK media appear to have picked up what happened at Ibrox on Saturday, and apart from, ‘how was this allowed to happen with the British Troops?’, they are also asking serious questions about the Scottish media. In other words …’Why is this not being reported, and WILL they report it to the Scottish public?’ Seems the rUK are not amused.
       
      Possibly the media in Scotland are waiting for the right moment so they can report it as:
       
      “The Scottish Government / Justice Minister / Police Scotland have/has been condemned for delays in investigating claims that soldiers at Ibrox have…
       
      This is despite it being reported in the press (but not by us but we´ll not point that out)…”
       
      I´m sure we call all fill in the rest of the story and how it´ll be spun by much of the media in Scotland.

    54. HandandShrimp says:

      I think the difficulty with the Rangers thing is that another slap down by the SFA and Rangers could go down the tubes.
       
      That said I suppose one could argue Hell mend them.

    55. Grant_M says:

      Ruth will, no doubt, be treating us to more of the same on Wednesday morning at the Tory conference, when she “explains why Britain is Better Together”. After that, it’s the UK PM’s turn to blether.
      Hope you’re feeling better before then, Stu! 

    56. Marion says:

      Hope you feel better soon.  Look after yourself.  We need you fighting fit.

    57. Krackerman says:

      Football is something that I never understood or even “got into” as a kid. There always seemed something bubbling away under the surface – something that fuelled the entire moronic enterprise that I could feel yet didn’t understand. Then I read this…

      http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,946181,00.html

      And this…

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10324172/Domestic-violence-almost-doubles-during-Old-Firm-matches.html

      And it really did click into place – I was able to understand at a remove the internal conflict in most football fanatics that provides the energy for the violence.

      Now I pity them – fools trapped by their own repressed desires and exploited by a system that milks them.

    58. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “BtP- Salt and sauce cures everything (except decapitation) The Rev is just having withdrawl symptons from said condiment. I’m sure the Red Cross can arrange a drop.”

      I brought a couple of bottles of Gold Star back with me. Trouble is it’s a long walk to the chip shop, especially if you’re slightly under the weather.

    59. Tim F-G says:

      Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Rev. Sterling work as usual.

    60. cath says:

      said absolutely nothing other than she wasn’t going to fall into the same “something for nothing” bear trap that Lamont fell into (she isn’t totally daft then).
       
      Shame her boss Dave said exactly those words yesterday on the Andrew Marr show then, isn’t it?

    61. James Morton says:

      Ruth Davidson who declared 88% of Scots and not contributing to the wealth of the UK. Not only is she rather crap at economics, she has a pretty poor grasp of electoral mathematics. Her party is dying on its feet. She, her party and her politics are irrelevant to Scottish political & cultural life. But you have to remember that they chose to be irrelevant.

    62. Jock McDonnell says:

      Scottish Skier, I may have missed it before, but how in your theory does Cameron keep the libdums in the dark about his plans ?

    63. Dorothy Devine says:

      The Ibrox incident was reported ,briefly , on the STV news at 6p.m.
       
      Rev , half an onion and put it beside your bed – throw it away in the morning!

    64. MajorBloodnok says:

      The onion, not the bed, presumably.

    65. Brian Powell says:

      On Ibrox; It is likely that the Scottish media will try to make out it is a SG/police fault. Someone on Alex Thomson’s blog already said it was the polices fault.

      However the services there, and there were army, navy and airforce personnel joining in, should be disciplined enough to control their behaviour. There must have been non-commissioned officers there to restore sensible order. So direct anything at the police would be ludicrous. However our press is just stupid enough to do that. I would say dangerously stupid. to misrepresent this.

      I could imagine the dimwit who writes for the Telegraph trying something.

      Alex Thomson is getting some completely crazy accusations throw at him on his blog.

    66. scottish_skier says:

      Scottish Skier, I may have missed it before, but how in your theory does Cameron keep the libdums in the dark about his plans
       
      He doesn’t. The Lib Dems have no future in Scotland. They  are actually more unpopular than the Tories now. Scotland will not vote Lib Dem again, at least not within the union. They’re sitting on 5-6%, which makes the Tory share of ~15% look quite respectable.

    67. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      The latest GERS figures showed Scotland subsidised the UK by £4.4bn. Information produced by the Treasury.  What’s the real figure? 

    68. BuckieBraes says:

      Rev, to address your condition eat lots of green jalapeños and take Aspro Clear Max Strength, not necessarily at the same time.
       
       

    69. Sneddon says:

      Rev I thought Bath was civilised, they don’t deliver MY GOD! You poor man. Oven chips are a poor substitute.  Tell you what I’ll have a bag on your behalf and send the calories your way.

    70. call me dave says:

      Worth a look re: Ibrox on Saturday.
       http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/rangers-and-armed-forces-day-whataboutery-and-bad-judgement/#more-4198
      £5 will get you £10 it will end up as ‘police fail to act and it’s the SG’s fault’
      Flu! I tend to eat satsumas and sup cups of tomato soup
      Normally can’t stand satsumas or tomato soup: Explain that!

    71. ScotsCanuck says:

      MajorBloodnok
       
      …………….. Classic !!!

    72. Paula Rose says:

      So, keeping up the checklist – lassie tonight from england, chooses to live here  realises this is about her future, guy at Dundee University said “first time I’ve met someone who talks about this”, we are the Yes campaign.

    73. annie says:

      MAN FLU ALERT

    74. The Man in the Jar says:

      Regarding the scandalous incident at Ibrox. I am left wondering how the McMahons of this world will be spinning this behind closed doors. Stirring up the old myth “An independent Scotland will be run by the O.O. and their like. An independent Scotland will be hell for Catholics” they have punted this myth before I expect they will be overjoyed at these latest antics.

    75. simian hoofer of the daily mail says:

      @ The Man In The Jar
       
      The thing is this happened under the watch of the union. Any sensible minded person can see that, except of course the devious britnats.

    76. Monty Carlow says:

      “We’ve got a cold”
       
      You’ve been in Englandshire too long – “We’ve got the cold”.

    77. The Man in the Jar says:

      @simian hoofer of the daily mail
      I fear that you underestimate the tribalism of West Central. I hope that I am wrong. 

    78. Albert Herring says:

      At the first hint of germs, institute a bedtime campaign of “fuck off you little buggers”, meanwhile telling yourself to be just fine in the morning. Works on all but the most evil of lurgae. Mind over matter, etc.

    79. HandandShrimp says:

      I see there is another debate on News night although I appear to have missed most of it. Anybody watch this? I don’t recognise any of the protagonists.

    80. Albert Herring says:

      @TMITJ
      Have a look at George Galloway’s Twitter

    81. Jingly Jangly says:

      RE the Gers figures well you could start by deducting the 4.5 billion per annum which is our share of UK debt servicing charges. then the several hundred million for Trident, then our 8.4% share of the illegal wars, the 1.5 billion underspend on defence in Scotland, the imperialistic overseas basis,(Cyprus,Gilbrater,Falklands,South Georgia,Antartic,(although we might want to keep our share for research purposes) Acsension Island, Diega Garcia, Kenya, US, Canada etc) the extravagant Embassy’s our “share” of UK ie English courts and prisons, London sewers,etc  100% of Royal protection in Scotland and 8.4% of Royal Protection in UK , proper share of Corporation tax, same for Vat and scores of other taxes including all the income tax that is earned in Scotland etc etc add a few billion for things we don’t know about, all the extra taxes for the new jobs created in the Civil Service, support workers for foreign embassies etc  and you will probably come up with what Scotland earns a year. Ie heaps oh and I forgot something called Oil and Gas

    82. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Albert Herring
      I can imagine. I dont have a twitter account. Is it findable off Rev Stu`s account? Or have you a link?

    83. HandandShrimp says:

      TMITJ
       
      There you go
       
      https://twitter.com/georgegalloway

    84. The Man in the Jar says:

      Watching recording of Newsnicht Referendum Special on the Arts. They are having a hard time to find someone to knock the Yes opinion. Oops spoke to soon but unionist views are falling flat. 

    85. Chic McGregor says:

      “I wonder if T May realises that the ECHR ”
       
      The creation of the UKCHR and the above move have all been in planning for nearly 30 years.  The UKCHR can then rule on any constitutional matter including whether Scotland can become independent (over and above any Edinburgh Agreement made between elected erepresentatives).
       
      Whether they will decide to accept the inevitable disapprobation from the international community (UN, Europe) or not, time will tell, but they have put the machinery in place.

    86. jim mitchell says:

      I see were getting the too wee, too poor, too daft ‘reasons’ over on news-night’s artistic referendum debate, we even had the name of a certain Calman person brought up when someone claimed that certain artists were frightened to come out and make their position clear.
      Oddly enough, he wasn’t asked to prove it!
      Rev, this cold of yours is very coincidental, coming as it does just after Wings showed how effective it could be when it flexed it’s mighty muscle, did any strange looking folk offer you anything to eat or drink when you were up here?
      I don’t want you getting paranoid, but perhaps some of us should mount a guard on your house, ask for passwords etc!
      A man in your position can’t be too careful! 

    87. HandandShrimp says:

      Did they do a vote at the end? I stepped out the room for two minutes and the credits were gong up by the time I got back.

    88. Marcia says:

      I don’t want you getting paranoid, but perhaps some of us should mount a guard on your house, ask for passwords etc!
      A man in your position can’t be too careful!
       
      That reminds me of the password problem a non-tech member of our staff had when she made a mistake on the computer.  She said she put in her password and was puzzled when nothing happened. I asked her what was wrong. ‘My password is incorrect – so I have been putting incorrect in but nothing happens, it just keeps telling me my passord, i’m getting nowhere’. Those were the days.  🙂

    89. jim mitchell says:

      Handshrimp, to be honest I switched it off, you can only stand to listen to the same BT rubbish so many times but when their not even challenged on it, what’s the point in having a debate?
      The REV was probbly having more fun with his cold

    90. gordoz says:

      Handandshrimp:

      Joyce MacMillan and Amy Shipway of National collective both superb at squashing V/poor BT supporters (nobodies).

      Took 15mins for Brits to get a few claps (watch the clip). The above women did brilliantly very well informed and answered all questions making v/good sense.

      Wee Eddie McGurn & Bald guy from BT making usual comments and very little sense in relation to arts about ‘britishness’.
      Britain only got a few minor claps.
       
      No Vote : But a complete walk over for YES on arts issues no question (That makes the last 3 TV debates have gone to yes).

    91. HandandShrimp says:

      Perhaps after the Curran debacle the vote format was considered a bit risky 🙂

    92. CameronB says:

      V I R U S   A L E R T
      🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
       
      YEStastic.

    93. CameronB says:

      Jingly Jangly says @ 11:09 pm

      RE the Gers figures well you could start by deducting the 4.5 billion per annum which is our share of UK debt servicing charges. then the several hundred million for Trident, then our 8.4% share of the illegal wars, the 1.5 billion underspend on defence in Scotland, the imperialistic overseas basis,(Cyprus,Gilbrater,Falklands,South Georgia,Antartic,(although we might want to keep our share for research purposes) Acsension Island, Diega Garcia, Kenya, US, Canada etc) the extravagant Embassy’s our “share” of UK ie English courts and prisons, London sewers,etc  100% of Royal protection in Scotland and 8.4% of Royal Protection in UK , proper share of Corporation tax, same for Vat and scores of other taxes including all the income tax that is earned in Scotland etc etc add a few billion for things we don’t know about, all the extra taxes for the new jobs created in the Civil Service, support workers for foreign embassies etc  and you will probably come up with what Scotland earns a year. Ie heaps oh and I forgot something called Oil and Gas
       
      YES. Scotland does have a considerable claim on the assets of a state significantly more than ten times it’s size. Not something to be sneezed at (see what I did there ;)).
       
      http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/10October/Pages/Herbal-remedy-echinacea-does-protect-against-colds.aspx

       

    94. CameronB says:

      Coockooland calling. Coockooland calling.

      Warning: Not to be read by the overtly credulous.

      Cornell University
      ILR School
      2-1-1989

      Malthus Was Right After All: Poor Relief and Birth Rates in Southeastern England
      George R. Boyer
      http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1525&context=articles

      Pushing credulity a bit hear perhaps?

      The Poor Law Amendment Act (1834)
      http://www.skyminds.net/politics/inequalities-in-great-britain-in-the-19th-and-20th-centuries/the-poor-law-amendment-act-1834/

      Hope I don’t get booked for this one!

      Dispelling “the Malthus myth”
      http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=671&issue=127

    95. pmcrek says:

      annie,
      “MAN FLU ALERT”
      lol 10/10

    96. CameronB says:

      HERE

    97. CameronB says:

      Completely OT yet somehow relevant; on the subject of thomas malthus, lets not forget probably the most influential publication to support Neo-Malthusianism philosophy, The Limits to Growth, published by the Club of Rome.

    98. Yodhrin says:

      So, reading the Guardian, it seems we have the Tories’ prospectus for a post-No vote UK: austerity to 2020 and beyond plus withdrawal from the EDHR/ECHR. From Labour, we get unworkable bollocks “policies” flavoured with stuff they’ve ripped off from the SNP, and underscored by a pledge from Red Ed and Hairy Balls to match the Tories cut-for-cut, only they’ll apparently cut different public services that nobody needs for some reason. From the Lib Dems…well, they’re finished in British politics for at least a couple more parliaments, so frankly anything they say can be safely ignored.

      I honestly can’t understand how your average, ordinary, vaguely-aware-of-what’s-going-on-but-doesn’t-care-all-that-much-about-politics Scot can seriously believe a system run by such a bunch of clowns and malicious psychos can actually be fixed by anything other than an uprising and a few guillotines. If we can’t get a Yes next year, I think I might just lose the few tattered shreds that remain of my faith in humanity.

    99. Keef says:

      @ CameronB
      I think Freddy Engels dispelled the Malthusian myth by pointing out that technology (even then) was increasing at a far greater rate than population and production of food  would increase to stave of any hunger, therefore Malthus’s formula was flawed. However, he never quite foresaw EU food mountains and wine lakes of food being wasted whilst 3rd world populations starved to death.
      Nonetheless his theories influenced the tories of the day when they were writing up the 1834 poor law act, an act that was all about controlled labour costs if you study it in detail.  

    100. CameronB says:

      Keef
      1834 poor law act
      social Darwinism
      Galton Institute
      Taylorism
      Auschwitz-Birkenau
       
      Scottish independence? Naw, we canny do that and why the hell should we? There’s ‘jam tomorrow’.
       

    101. CameronB says:

      Austerity Jam.
      🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

    102. CameronB says:

      Sun Tzu advised something along the lines of it being best to defeat the enemy without engaging them. Perhaps by turning their guns back against them?

      A Genetic Map of the People of the British Isles
      by Professor Sir Walter Bodmer
      (Department of Oncology, Weatherall Institute, Oxford and The Galton Institute)

      ” The analysis of these data demonstrated in an elegant manner that the British population can be subdivided into several groups based on their genetic make-up, e.g. distinct sub-populations clusters in the Orkneys, the tips of Wales, Cornwall, Devon, the Welsh borders and so forth. These groups correlate well with geographic regions, surnames and historic events. In parallel a genetic study on a number of European populations was carried out. This helped to determine the origin of different population groups on the British Isles. For instance the ancestry of present day residents of the Orkney Islands can be shown to go back to the Vikings. Similarly, the genetics indicate that historic Anglo-Saxon invasions have contributed a component of Danish and German ancestry to population sub-groups living further south in the United Kingdom.

      Professor Bodmer concluded on the note that underlying population genetics needs to be considered in the context of genetics of health and disease, with different genetic backgrounds affecting the detection of causal genetic variation and down-stream diagnostic or treatment options.”

      The Galton Institute
      NEWSLETTER
      Issue Number 79
      Winter 2012
      http://www.galtoninstitute.org.uk/

    103. jim mitchell says:

      CameronB, Professor Bodmer concluded on the note that underlying population genetics needs to be considered in the context of genetics of health and disease, with different genetic backgrounds affecting the detection of causal genetic variation and down-stream diagnostic or treatment options.”

      Aw c’mon the REV’s only got a cold!

    104. CameronB says:

      A sending off?
       
      Eugenics: the skeleton that rattles loudest in the left’s closet

      Socialism’s one-time interest in eugenics is dismissed as an accident of history. But the truth is far more unpalatable
       
      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/17/eugenics-skeleton-rattles-loudest-closet-left

      Jim
      🙂



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