They Are The People
Posted on
April 22, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We might just not post anything again until the second referendum.
.
EDIT 12.11pm: When we posted this initially, the audio was muted because – bizarrely – someone auto-filed a copyright complaint with YouTube.
The national anthem is of course public domain and not subject to copyright. But it was a deeply pleasing twist to have an American/French media conglomerate attempt to censor the British state broadcaster using the British national anthem, as published by a Scottish politics website seeking independence from the British state in much the same way that America and France did in the past…
Mercifully no audio for me.
There is a God.
aye, saw that last night, andra looking fur a knighthood
nausiating pish, i couldnt change channel quick enough
Ah, not just me then! (No audio)
i wonder how popular brenda is in scotland?
thankfully there is no beacon bonfire party in kelvengrove
ooer missus
Portillo fully erect in seconds. Ken takes longer.
@Jim Thomson
😀 LOL
Oh happy day.
it really is a blessing not having a tv or radio. Cringeworthy indeed. I skipped it and went to the end and ruthie came onto the screen, as well as a pic of a very well endowed girlie from a video game!
The first film was worse even with no sound. Britnats alive and well.
Anyone have any idea of any polls on how the 16/17 year olds might be voting on May 5th? It tends to be those getting on a bit that love the royals waving at them from afar, usually in a big fck off car that would cost as much as anyone else could earn in a lifetime.
Biggest obstacle to democracy are the royals and their hangers on.
Keep on keeping us sane Rev Stu, pleeese.
Classic Aversive Conditioning – we are being bombarded with this shite until we stop being ‘uppity’ jocks.
Thanks for that Stu…
Forgot a verse
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
the word on the street is that brenda is a good egg. but what the fuck is ken livingston doing? I can .understand, you end up at a christening or wedding or funeral and it does not seem appropriate to scream “fantasists” at the top of your lungs. But actually standing up and hiding your crotch while someone wails royalist wank…that shows a surprising lack of fibre in the diet.
Bloody Hell!
That is nauseating.
Even my staunch monarchist wife (SNP voting) switched it off instantly,
What? No Marshall Wade!
Just ordered my copy of Jon M Temple’s Living Off The State. Should be an interesting read.
Didn’t she forget to sing a verse?
UGH!
Phew no sound. To have audio accompanying that awful display of inhuman behaviour that my eyes unfortunately just witnessed would have sent me over the edge.
It’s just not manly. “Highlight” was when Portillo, (gie that guy a knighthood) started singing.
I particularly liked the karaoke element to it. Words obviously require as nobody knows them.
I did wonder if Andrew and his hairpiece were both thinking of the redacted verse.
For the love of humanity Stu, if the lack of audio is a glitch please please don’t fix it.
I’m off to irrigate my eyes. With Domestos.
Unfortunately for me the audio was fine. Britnat boke at it’s worst. 🙁
Disappointed in Red Ken. Thought he was a republican. 🙁
SNP x 2
As a contrast, may I suggest Laibach’s version of God Save the Queen (Anglia):
Sick bag now brimming over.
The true definition of “a State Broadcaster” which would not be out of place in North Korea.
Think Neill actually looked embarrased – see curl of the lip as he fumbled for the lyrics.
They just don’t see the Betty Cult they belong to, do they? If this was an ode to Kim Jung Un, the BritNat media would be peeing themselves laughing.
I guess us Scots just don’t know our place, do we?
To paraphrase Burns – ‘The man o’ indpendent mind, is king o’ men, for a’ that.”
No slip-ups in May – SNP BOTH VOTES
I was expecting Andrew Neil’s hair to be standing to attention, so a big disappointed. I think he was a Whig in his past life.
Has the High Court Injunction on ‘celebrity’ ménage a trois has been lifted ?
#liebackandthinkofyoonsville
No sound – the funniest thing I’ve seen in ages and the karaoke lines on the screen- a wonderful moment of republican squirm – Thankyou
Why oh why was the audio fixed by the time I saw this? It sould carry a health warning, my ears are bleeding!
Come on everybody we all know the words dont we. Ok after three and i expect everyone to sing all the verses. Ok here we go……
God save…………. la la la la la ermm hrmmm forgot the words. Tch never mind.
Aye, you can see the relative Brit-Nat-iness of each!
Portillo jumping up and standing to attention like a ramrod giving it big licks.
Neil second in his feet, playing with his bit of paper.
Red Ken in two minds what to do!
Scotland needs a good, universally accepted national anthem. That will have to wait till after Indy.
Sound works for me unfortunately. And to top it off the daily record is the newspaper of the year.
link to bbc.co.uk
Austin Lafferty, the chairman of the judges, praised the Daily Record’s win.
“A year after the referendum, the Daily Record is engaged by the power brokers, has a mass readership and looks after emerging talent in the industry,” he said.
“The Daily Record has survived the decline of the Labour party without falling, and is transcending the Scottish political landscape as well as building an aggressive new media strategy, keen to embrace our digital future.”
Help us all
Rev Stuart competing for my job with that video, sowing seeds of despair.
Okay let’s re-think this. There must be some way to turn the queen into a divisive issue…
Of course, the SNP wanted to keep the queen as head of state. Made a lot of sense when you look at how older people perceive the queen etc., and probably won us a few thousand Yes votes.
Let’s do the math’s. I’ve managed to split the vote over the whole RISE/left wing lunacy thing. That probably took SNP support down by 50%.
Maybe with this queen issue I can shave another 25% or so off the SNP vote.
I’ve yet to play my ace card too, which I’m keeping for the week of the election.
According to my calculations, the SNP will be lucky to win 8 seats in total on May 5th.
Now to convince SNP emigres to vote Ruth…
The lassie has a nice voice, mind you.
I’d never heard that second verse before. Chalk that up in the “and I never want to hear it again” category.
Spew fest at its best.
Jackie Burd said there was celebration all across the nation. Never saw one UJ in my town, even in any of the shop displays.
I can’t do it. You beat me. I got 10 seconds in and had to stop. Cringe worthy indeed.
Remember the days when television started for the day with tunes like “A hundred pipers anaw anaw” on STV , and always finished with ” God save the Queen”.at closing.
Boy ,could Britnat TV, indoctrinate with the best of them. I even remember having to stand in a cinema for the “Dirge”.
Pure Spitting Image
Gulp!
Re, heraldnomore@12.16
‘Living off the state, a critical guide to royal finance’ is an excellent book, good you managed to get hold of it. It was published in 2008, and no doubt the royals’ assets and level of secrecy will have changed since then, but we can be assured it will all be in their own interests.
Sad that a Jenkins is singing that. Owen Glynwdr will be spinning in his grave.
Copyright for God save the queen has expired has it not
Alexicon at 12.30
I live in a Royal town in England famous for it’s military connections and I haven’t seen any evidence of this celebration either.
Totally misread the headlines this morning and thought Prince Charles was deid.
Oh, well…..
Think I have seen the light after that.
Both votes Ruth.
I have a theory on the copyright claim. One of Universal Music Groups artists is Queen, so I suspect their boneheaded copyright auto-filer thought the audio was their version of “God Save The Queen” from one of the live albums.
carjamtic says:
You must be the only one that hasn’t heard, trust me when you do, you will be very disappointed, not in the behaviour, in that its them, I would be more surprised and disappointed if they were not doing this sort of thing!
Jesus Christ! That was/is one of the most embarrassing scenes I’ve ever seen on TV.
The Beeb is not short on bending the knee to Betty and the government clique but that was a full-blown cringe of belly lying in the dust and let me PLEEEAAASE lick your feet.
The jock A. Neill was well and truely shown as to what his role is in the pecking order – the imperial masters arrogance rules.
Cringeing gits, what a lot of tosh. I detest that song.
Here we observe in crystal clear clarity the cultural divergence between Scotland and England. Scots do not desire to think of ourselves as better than anyone else. Nor do we think anyone should think they are better placed to rule over us unless we say so. Scots instinctively believe in fairness and justice and all we seek seek is equality. Scots will be the firt to point to something and say, “That’s just no’ right.” Much of the rest of eUK will just shut up and accept it.
And that’s the fundamental problem ‘Project British’ will always have with the vast majority of Scots. England will, by and large, bend over for Brenda. Scotland (with the exception of the loyalist brigade) will not bend over for Brenda and is more likely to tell Brenda to take a hike. Thrawn is in our DNA. We don’t want to be anyone’s superior but neither will we happily bend over and accept someone lording it over us.
And that is why indy is inevitable. We’re just too different. As R.L. Stevenson tells us:
“There is nothing perhaps more puzzling (if one thing in sociology can be ever really be more unaccountable than another) than the great gulf that is set between England and Scotland-a gulf so easy in appearance, in reality so difficult to traverse.
Here are two people almost identical in blood; pent up together on one small island, so that their intercourse (one would have thought) must be as close as that of prisoners who shared one cell at the Bastille; the same language and religion; and yet a few years of quarrelsome isolation- a mere forenoon’s tiff, as one may call it, in comparison with the great historical cycles have so separated their thoughts and ways that not unions, not mutual dangers, nor steamers, nor railways, nor all the King’s horses and all the King’s men, seem able to obliterate the broad distinction.”
SNP BOTH VOTES
@Angus Anderson 12:01
…such an opening. It demands follow up but I’ll resist. However a few popped into my mind! 🙂
I dunno, has Ruthie done something to her hair? She looks different somehow. Does that sound sexist and patronising?
As for the backing choir, I haven’t seen anything look as awkward and wooden as that since that grotesque acid trippy rave thing they once did on the Andrew Neil show. I thought that must have been for a bet they lost, but seems we have a new contender for the worst ever toe curlingly bad attempt at charisma.
As for Portillo? Can’t we find him a position with some out of the way Banking group or Lobbying Company? It’s just embarrassing to see him demeaning himself like that. Can’t we crowd fund a “Get Portillo a real job” campaign? Tory Minister falls on hard times… Forced to live on handouts from the BBC… Please give generously.
Red Ken is another spectacular Labour hypocrite too. What a pack of abject guts they all are. Just like they said vote Lab 97′ we’ll democratise the Lords, they’re all now sitting it in, for life and never to face an election again.
Nope i refuse to watch any of the pomp and britnat cultist pagentry i am having a good day plus i just had my dinner seeing them all suck up her ass gives you the boak.
maybe later i enjoyed that dinner lol
I’m sure some of us will remember running out of the pictures at the end of the films to “dodge the dirge” when we were younger
I also remember right at the end some men standing up backs stiff as a board getting ready for their patriotic moment
Those were the days when many more folk thought The UK and Queen were something to be proud of, they read more newspapers then though and watched a lot of “Pearl and Dean” voiced over by people like Bob Danvers Walker
Remember him, he was also the voice of “Take your pick” with Michael Miles
Oh God I’m stopping now before I go mental
Are the guys expecting someone to take a free kick? They’re all protecting their bollocks.
Has the death of Prince been blamed on Sturgeon yet?
Who is the singer. Is this really a career lifter? God save us from Sod Gave the Queen because now even Wings can’t.
@Dr Jim 12:58
…and on TV at evening closedown 🙁
Proud Cybernat
I had never read that statement by RL Stevenson, Now that’s a keeper!
Actually I quite like Brenda, apart for the purring, at her age she should be more careful, it could have upset the corgis.
Probably best when she toddles off, we just tone down the royal thing, not really working for me, thinking of King Charley. to be fair I don’t think he relishes the job either. Patrick Harvey could give him a job as tree whisperer or something?
Me personally I found this just a wee bit disturbing
Was this not just a BBC ploy to make Ken Livingstone uncomfortable? I can just imagine gleeful discussions beforehand with the production team taking bets as to what Red Ken might do. Sit or stand or hide behind the sofa?
Wonder if there are any yoon politicians or meeja luvvies still frothing about the dangers and evils of runaway nationalism and flag waving today?
Otherwise known as hypocrisy or irony bypass.
NeoConNatterjack: “Okay let’s re-think this. There must be some way to turn the queen into a divisive issue…”
Zzzzz…
Not even a very good singer. That last note hurt!
Free Scotland says:
“Are the guys expecting someone to take a free kick? They’re all protecting their bollocks.”
… perhaps BritNats find it an arousing song?
It’s great to see that BBC licence payers are still getting good value for their money but for some unknown reason the lines from a film popped into my head while watching this wholesome piece of entertainment:
WILLIE
Give me your hat…
SHORT ROUND
What for?
WILLIE
I’m going to puke in it…
Managed to avoid the whole Betty Saxe-Coburg and Gotha propaganda fest for the whole day.
Or to give Betty the German her official title…
Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
Will not be tuning into any of that or any future crap anytime soon.
There are of course those that believe in all that flag waving, they work so hard, bring in tourists etc. bollocks and can be seen in the video above.
syc-o-phant
[sik-uh-fuh nt, -fant, sahy-kuh-]
noun
a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.
Fawning parasites indeed!
Much prefer Katherine Jenkins doing land of our fathers.
Thanks for the laugh, Rev
SNP BOTH VOTES
Brit TV gets increasingly creepier.
A bckbone of biased news 7 opnion, with extra lardings of patriotism and Brit-nattery. Thereafter, if it’s not real estate it’s selling off the family silver, or crap out the the loft. Or, it’s late night TV casinos and fortune telling. Then there’s all the competitive Brittery baking, cooking and dancing.
In between, it’s body shaming, poverty shaming and humiliating, celebs and punters on ‘reality’ TV. Any drama, is cops & robbers, medical, nostalgic period drama, or a combination of all three.
Glad I’m out of it.
JGedd says:
22 April, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Was this not just a BBC ploy to make Ken Livingstone uncomfortable?
No. Red ken the great hyprocrite was on BBC London and BBC Newsnight yesterday bashing on about how royals are far better than Presidents, lovely brilliant queen, who would we vote for? celebs etc. Just usual stuff from the great fraud that is the Labour red tory party.
On fraud, got a heap of election stuff this morn in post and tory candidates brochure makes absolutely no mention of the tory party.
Not coincidentally, the LidDem one does exactly the same, with no mention of Libdems. Only way to tell what the bloke’s actually party is, on photo has her wearing a Libdem badge.
Our parties are so toxic to our Scotland region, we dare not mention the party. What a bunch
Just when we thought things couldn’t get more surreal, Proud Cybernat comes along with… God, I don’t even have words to describe it.
“Scotland (with the exception of the loyalist brigade) will not bend over for Brenda and is more likely to tell Brenda to take a hike.”
So far, so simple. But wait! There’s something in the ‘blood and iron’ ointment. Is it a fly? No it’s a huge heffalump.
“I want the Queen as head of state, as Queen of Scots of an independent Scotland, as her ancestors were..” (Salmond)
My guess is you voted in line with that plan, Proud Cybernat? In other words, you voted to retain the Queen.
Cringeworthy, luckily mute works.
But say what you like (as my wife says), Liz and Phil showed some large courage standing upright in the 4×4, albeit with armoured glass, driving through the Streets of London.
I have a neighbour who is okay to talk to despite having “Naw” posters in his window at the referendum. Normally he has the bunting up for Brenda’s birthday. Not this year however. This is despite the fact that he is an “Ibrox season ticket holder”, CofS Elder and I’ve seen him sneaking home on a Saturday evening with his duffelbag and wee flute sized case.
I have my doubts but perhaps a Wee Black book through his letterbox might not be a complete waste. Well you can but hope!
Macart says:
“…frothing about the dangers and evils of runaway nationalism and flag waving today?”
Indeed. When it’s British, it’s not nationalism. The British don’t do nationalism. Or so they tell everyone else. And, everyone else goes ‘aye, right’.
Just like they don’t do personality cults with their head of state.
Reminds me of Gerry Hassan’s phrase from last year at the GE … ‘two nationalisms – one Scottish and out, and one British and in denial’
One of the joys of living in Scotland was that it was mercifully easy to avoid any Brenda celebrations. I happily went about my business and was not inconvenienced by the sight of a single union flag or the burning of heretics (or whatever it was they were doing in England).
Copyright Claimed by UMG. Who? ‘Ur Majety’s Government?
while shackled to the corpse of the uk, a republic isnt possible
with indy, it is
slowly slowly catchy monkey
Why has the BBC put the words up on screen? It must be because they know no-one knows them ha ha ha.
Excruciating. The copyright notice refers to three verses but the blonde lady only sang two. The verse about crushing rebellious Scots is obviously too sensitive to sing out loud on National TV.
FGS! The audio works for me but that was too much of a cringe I felt my toes curling up. 🙂
Reminded me of the old days when I was young, adult folk rushed out of the cinemas at the end to avoid such torture.
Mind you I’m not that keen on Flower o Scotland and turn the sound down too at the internationals until the play begins.
Please… No more after Betty goes they have had their day.
Let’s move on to independence and have a referendum on them.
Was any wingers actually taught the words of this dirge at school. I was,nt neither were my friends or my children. Got through life without ever having the need or want to either learn it or listen to it.
I think this should be part of the snp political campaign
“Vote SNP – we guarantee that we would get rid of this lot of jobbies!”
(changed the last word it in case JKHowling got upset)
“My guess is you voted in line with that plan, Proud Cybernat? In other words, you voted to retain the Queen.”
One vote at a time, troll. Indy first. Republic second (after Brenda). Now off yae go tae hospital and get that barbed wire up yer arse surgically removed. Wouldn’t want any unintended consequences when you bend over for Brenda.
Lets face it she is a good singer, but I much prefer this version of it.
link to youtube.com
OT
Oh dear, an unattributed article on the Herald says it won two awards – cartoonist of the year and sports feature writer of the year. The Record won 5 including Newspaper of the Year.
Bwahahahahaha ….
Apparently, the wee black book was given the most votes but the decision was overturned after a mass huff.
She geen ee’s a stawnner….
ot
If #indyref2 was tomorrow, how would you vote?
YES 43.7%
NO 46.9%
DK 9.3%
.
DK removed:
YES 48.3%
NO 51.7%
Why did you make me watch that? Ah yes…to make me stronger! It worked.
schrodingers cat says: 1:47
So after over a year of anti democratic propaganda, lies and intimidation we have an entire country still at stalemate, given the demographics, tick tock, though I would rather conversion over cremation.
Regardless its just a mater of time.
Proud Cybernat, you seem to have missed my point.
It simply won’t do to fight English/British nationalism with Scottish nationalism. What you typed was one of the most flagrant expositions of nationalism I’ve ever encountered on here.
I won’t pretend I’m offended though. Don’t mistake me for one of those “how very dare you” types of which there are so many in here.
You know, I may very well have been some sort of enlightened child, I’ll leave that question to posterity, but by the age of 6 it was clear to me that we don’t choose our nationality any more than we choose the colour of our skin and so much else.
And, so, if you’re going to be proud of something, make it something you had a say in.
By that standard, Scottish Independence can only be something to be proud of if it’s based on democracy rather than nationality.
May God have mercy on your soul.
I’ve just vomited up my tuna and sweetcorn sandwich. It’s not looking good.
Well, today Ruthie has finally found the political equivalent of ‘jumping the shark’ by climbing onto a buffalo – I kid ye not.
While Nicola seems to have the sense to just meet people, talk to them & pose for pics with them, this so-called ‘popular’ media star climbs on top of the fuxking wildlife!
What’s next for this flawless media operator? Jump on a stag and drape a Butchers Apron over the antlers? Take some sheep for a walk? Or just go around punching Jack Russells before climbing onto a garage roof?
Whatever it is don’t include any real people in it. And don’t mention ‘Tories’ (sshhhttt) or any policies
Here comes the Opposition – be afraid, once you’ve stopped laughing
Didn’t Cameron tell Corbyn to “put on a proper suit, do up your tie and sing the national anthem?”
1 out of 3 for Portillo and Livingston, the former mayor of London. Saying that, I’m not sure Livingstone was really singing. His facial expression seemed to say: “Is there any way I can mute this microphone?”
I sang along, but just couldnae manage the last high note. 🙂
And what about the bit where they promise to crush revllious Scots forever. A very ENGLISH national anthem.
Seriously, let’s hope the BBC play this on a loop the day before the next independence referendum. It would guarantee a win.
As for ‘red’ Ken. Get off yer freakin knees ken, you claim to be a republican, FFS.
Gravelling, servile, English ‘subjects’ there, for all to see.
Cringe worthy indeed.
New TV set on order as we speak.
Never watch Andy Pandy Brillo with a heavy glass in hand. :/
After reading the comments, I’ve decided not to watch it.
Reminds me of when I was wee. Father was a big anti-royalist. Him and his pal got flung out of a pub for not standing for the sing-song at the end of the night.
Also my wee sister, asked at school if she would like to be the queen replied “no thanks, too many people don’t like her”.
Loved it ! had sound and was eagerly awaiting the third verse , nothing .What’s wrong with them ! , was it perhaps the bit about the rebellious Scots that put her off singing it , or is this going to be the new norm , brushing the third verse under the carpet .We don’t forget easily you know ! Totally cringe-worthy watching them standing to attention like that .
Schrodinger, it isn’t ot, it’s why we are here.
But what do you make of that data? Looks like we hit the glass ceiling to me. Maybe if we ditch the student politics we can go higher, no?
“It simply won’t do to fight English/British nationalism with Scottish nationalism.”
It’s not about nationalism, you twit. It’s about DEMOCRACY.
Now, this will be my last post to you in this thread because you are simply trolling in an attempt to disrupt the thread and to put people off reading it. (Aye, dinnae be surprised – we know how trolls operate).
It’s not going to work, pal.
Now fuck off.
But afore ye go, remember – SNP BOTH VOTES.
Could someone please post a clip of John Redwood singing the Welsh anthem?
@ Mike, 12:29pm
Does all that mean that the DRancid still has a good horse racing page?
Capella says:
22 April, 2016 at 1:30 pm
Excruciating. The copyright notice refers to three verses but the blonde lady only sang two. The verse about crushing rebellious Scots is obviously too sensitive to sing out loud on National TV
To be fair to the old gal, she did actually crush rebellious Scots in 2014 of her blessed rein, with a little from likes of the Brillo and aunty beeb
God’s clearly a yoon, keen to boost billionaires, who never get involved in politics, except when threatening Scotland for voting YES, from one her dozen or so palaces dotted around her queendom.
God’s a tory Britnat too obviously.
Ah FFS, who fixed the audio.
Anyway, I prefer the Sex Pistols version.
schrodingers cat says:
“If #indyref2 was tomorrow, how would you vote?”
…. but it’s not tomorrow. No details, no wide debate, no campaigns.
If indyref1 had been as initially promised, status quo versus Indy, then we would be independent now. Of that I have little doubt.
What will indyref2 be about? We know one option will be Indy, that’s a given! However, what is the counter WM offer going to be next time? FFA, Home Rule, Superest Maxiest Federal setup ever? I think not!
Next time it will be DevoNotMuch versus Indy. However, that clarity won’t sink in until the campaigning begins.
@Neoconheehaw says:
” ”
Dear Neoconheehaw
Due to a copyright claim, the words in your posting have been blanked.
Posting titled Zzzzzzzzz
Copyrighted posting: Zzzzzzzzz
Claimed by: Lord Haw Haw and nothing to say
Oh.
Aye right!
link to youtube.com
PS:
You need two to play tennis!
Gizardfuckingpuke! I wouldn’t sing-a-long as I was too busy throwing up. Johnny Rotten’s song of the same name would have been more relevant.
HandandShrimp says:
‘ One of the joys of living in Scotland was that it was mercifully easy to avoid any Brenda celebrations. I happily went about my business and was not inconvenienced by the sight of a single union flag or the burning of heretics (or whatever it was they were doing in England.
Ditto. And so with all royal celebrations which appear to be increasing in number and vainglorious pomp and circumstance. The media seem to think that we need to gawp unthinkingly at these displays.
I know I can go about my life more serenely if I ignore them.
call me dave
Hilarious !!
God save our Auntie Jean
She kept us awfy clean…
@Dr Jim
I’m now trying to remember back to Paisley Minors ABC pictures on Saturday morning. I only remember singing to Flash Gordon.
I was more whippet like in those days, so I may have joined the stampede at the end.
Laughing at Sky news, Obama’s intervention being described as ‘wanton’.
BoJo ignites a diplomatic incident by alleging Obama tossed a bust of Churchill out of the White House 🙂 , connecting it to Obama’s part Kenyan heritage.
@Mealer –
Good shout.
Here ye go –
link to youtube.com
I wont listen. I am back on my 24/7 carer stint after a couple of days off. I am thus back to having to bear witness to the Brit Nat Brainwashing Corps megaphone at denner time plus the Burd Show. I think that is enough brutality for one day.
So there is an aroma of something fishy at the Yoon controlled North Lanark council, or is this another Yoon case of nothing to see here missus move along just the Carmichael case?
British nationalism – cooked up by the late Victorian era Establishment, as a means of mobilising popular support to the industrial and military re invigoration and expansion of empire.
Put simply, British nationalism is am atrificial construct which is proto-fascist in nature, hence all the flag waving, tub thumping and institutional UKOK indoctrination, from birth.
Bow down to a bunch of parasitic inbreeds. On yer bike.
I wonder if Ruthie Tank Commander would stand to attention when they sing this verse.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
Oh sorry they never sing this verse but they still would like to crush us.
My iPad disconnected from the Internet after playing this
Oh sorry they never sing this verse but they still would like to crush us
They did! Scotland voted NO, to keep on being crushed. Proud Scot buts must be so proud.
@Marcia says:
22 April, 2016 at 12:23 pm
I was expecting Andrew Neil’s hair to be standing to attention, so a big disappointed. I think he was a Whig in his past life.
More likely to involve a Wig
I only watched that video because Stu put it up, but, jings, my least favourite “singer” wi’ a rubbish backing group 🙁
Our establishment pals normally feel free to insult/belittle/threaten Scots/Welsh/N Irish, French, Belgians, Gerans, Italians, Icelanders, och,list too long, etc., etc., so it is surprising they don’t want to have a go and amuse themselves with that sentimental third verse.
Cringeworthy. Just why hasn’t the UK moved on to an anthem about its countries and hopes for their folks, I wonder…?
This gives me an idea. Perhaps BBC Scotland could have a National Anthem slot each evening just before midnight and invite the political leaders of the Scottish political parties and branches along to sing along with the UK anthem?
The BBC could thus check the loyalty of the Queen’s subjects…
Non-attendence or singing the 3rd verse would result in being banned from BBC Question time…
link to news.sky.com
Murdoch’s pretty angry at the Prez today. We can never have a Prez. We’re just not capable of electing a head of a state. Its all up to God, UKOK royal loyal God. Actually God even has some of his reps in the Lords, sitting with proud Scot buts like Michelle Mone.
What did the bishop say to Michelle Mone? Its fackin great this teamGB stuff innit.
Scott @ 2:32pm
Ruth referendum Davidson referendum has never referendum made referendum anything referendum stand to attention referendum, referendum. Comfortable shoes referendum Angela from Ayrshire referendum strong referendum opposition referendum.
“Freedom come all ye”
More appropriate anthem. From 1:55 …
youtube.com/watch?v=nxzq7BqfFW0
angramainyu
did i forget to tell you today…..
rev
cant believe you posted GSTQ …. a 1st for wings i would have thought, queue unionists hyperlinking this article…..
gala
What will indyref2 be about?
winning
Andrew McLean
disappointing indy poll result, nicola is right, something needs to change before we jump into indyref2, perhaps an eu leave followed by the much heralded financial collapse (not sure about this)
otherwise, we will just need to wait until the no voters die off, unpleasant thought.
On the few occasions I’ve been found myself in such a situation I’ve happily joined in, amending lyrics to ‘my sister Jean’.
Should have been followed by a shrinking screen & small dot & white noise, lets hope we can put Bbc’s gas at ah peep.
I heard it was Liz’s 90th birthday yesterday, thankfully I avoided all the unionist sycophantic coverage of it.
As for the video I think I will give it a miss thank you, my late parents showed great deal of common sense when they used to switch the telly off when the BBC finished broadcasting at night to avoid listening to god save Liz.
Not only do I loathe that anthem I have never stood to attention for it nor sang it in my life and never will.
@cat
Don’t be disappointed by that poll, it’s 48.3% YES, the average of the last 16 polls before that from whatscotlandthinks is 48.5%, it dipped recently and rose again, so this polls conforms to the trend, that Indy has risen from 44.7% to 48.5% – a rise of nearly 4% points.
I’m very happy with that, it’s not, despite Unionist party attempts, been a 12 months of Indy campaigning. Holyrood will soon be over, and it’s back to normal stuff.
They missed ah trick tae hurt us Cybernats,ah bit mair o that Verbratto an she could hiv smashed every TV/laptop/Computer screen in Scotland.
@ronnie anderson –
Younger readers won’t remember this, but you’re referring to when the telly was turned off – there would be a wee dot that faded as it got smaller and smaller until, eventually, it disappeared entirely. The technical term for it was, I believe, a ‘willeighrenneigh’.
I regularly check the Brexit odds.
Stay is the overwhelming favourite and has been since the vote date was set. Currently Stay is around 4/11 and Leave is 2/1.
I’d be very very shocked if the Leave vote won. It’s kinda clutching at straws. We’re not gonna leave the EU this time around. It’s a bit of a distraction to the Independence movement or the overall Independence Strategy (do we have a strategy) to factor in a Brexit to any meaningful degree.
After the Scottish elections, there will be a wee rest then it’s full systems go for the Council Elections, after which we might see some more tangible evidence of an optimal strategy for Independence. We got a lot wrong first time round, if we learn from our mistakes, and combine our collective floating grey abundances, we have the resources to win…optimal strategy, marginal gains, attack more than defend, blah blah blah. But humans are an infant species. So who can say?
@schrodingers cat
On that poll. Its actually a quite encouraging result considering the source and the current climate. Scotland is on pause over both the Holyrood elections and the EU referendum. The ‘settlement’ is still in the process of delivery and its yet to be seen what can be made out of that stramash. Last, but by no means least, there is currently no cohesive effort being made by the yes movement, whilst every day the opposition and their media are busting a gut just to keep their situation from degrading any further.
When YES gets its shit together for the next campaign, the opposition KNOWS its in bother. 🙂
Ian Brotherhood says:
Oh, Ian, it has taken me a wee while to recover to write this, but you have just made my day!
@ Ian Brotherhood you mean that fulla wie the glaikit smile he,ll be dain this shortly
… _ … _ … _ , am no up on ma dots n dashes anybody lend me a alphabet, its ok ah,ve fun ah tin of Alphabet soup hud oan wullie
Nice soup mmmmmmm.
link to goodolewoody.me
The Queen who stares at boats. 60 year giant royals blast but Lefty USA isn’t a fan of the Firm.
For those wanting even more – don’t forget about the Shakespeare celebration week and, best of all, a “minute by minute” dramatization of “England’s 1966 World Cup” final on Radio 2 on 30th July.
@ schrodingers cat
YES 43.7%
NO 46.9%
DK 9.3%
The change there seems fairly obvious. The YES % from IndyRef#1 has held absolutely firm and has hardly changed. However, what has changed is a significant number of NO voters (9.3%) are now questioning their NO vote. There is 9.3% of the population (on this poll) who are now up for grabs and for pqrsuasion; 9.3% of the population who are now at least thinking indy might just be the better option for them in IndyRef#2.
This is a brilliant position to be in at this stage. Almost level-pegging (certainly within error-margin of level-pegging). Natural demographics will come into play over time as will a long-term, concerted positive campaign to convince that 9.3% that indy is truly the better option for them and for all of us in Scotland.
SNP BOTH VOTES
‘Rebellious Scots’! They ain’t seen nothing yet!
SNP 1 & 2
@MJT “After the Scottish elections, there will be a wee rest then it’s full systems go for the Council Elections”
Yes, and THAT will be the time for all of us to support all of SNP, RISE, Green and Solidarity to dislodge Labour (and Cons).
It makes no difference then to Indy as to which party controls the councils as long as it’s not Labour basically, or any Unionist party. That weakens their anti-indyness at its root and branch level.
“minute by minute” dramatization of “England’s 1966 World Cup” final on Radio 2 on 30th July.
link to bbc.co.uk
Another round of minute by minute BBC nats self worship of all things BritEnglandish this morn, 96 Euro loss to Germany, England much better team, tears, lessons, Gaza, quitting, coming back, heroes, blame, 66 holds England back, England full of talents, Barry Davis still a pain, or just the usual BBC says England’s the greatest, BBC Scotland says Scotland is shite.
Iona says:
Nae doubt!
There was only an Edinburgh Agreement and ‘gracious permission’ from WM to hold IndyRef1 because they felt certain they’d win. If things got bad, they knew they would have the DevoMax card up their sleeves.
IndyRef2 may be different. The SG may have to hold it in the face of legal challenges from WM. They may declare it void before it happens, and tell Unionists to boycott it.
We may indeed need to be more rebellious – in a peaceful democratic way, of course,
All the loyal NO’s of Govan will still be toasting their queen and country tonight. Pacific Quay’s Govan too. Those liggers are secure, until May 6.
Libby Brooks ?@libby_brooks 1h1 hour ago Gillingham, England
BREAKING: GMB confirm worst case scenario of 800 job losses on the Clyde: “total betrayal of workforce”…more to follow
NeoconNat says:
Are you the latest in Sensible-Daves ?
Ian Brotherhood says:
there would be a wee dot that faded as it got smaller and smaller until, eventually, it disappeared entirely. The technical term for it was, I believe, a ‘willeighrenneigh’.
Comment of the day!
yesindyref2
I’m very happy with that, it’s not, despite Unionist party attempts, been a 12 months of Indy campaigning. Holyrood will soon be over, and it’s back to normal stuff.
By normal you mean the Yoon Team going into overdrive with all things Empire to get out of the EU at all costs then the build up to the Scottish Council Elections in 2017.
Suppose we could have a day off though! Maybe everyone goes round Neocons hoose for a party or would that be too much.
Aye, ronnie anderson, the good ship Union is slowly taking on water. At the moment the crew are just beginning to suspect it, and getting very nervous, but they haven’t got to the stage of sending out the distress messages yet.
One wonders though just which rat will leave the sinking ship first?
Did you see the article in today’s National? – the three Unionist parties were apparently doing a “Better Together” reprise on a public platform in Glasgow yesterday. Will they never learn? Maybe they will all go down together!
ronnie anderson
just phone wullie rennie
Hi, no one in at the moment, nothing working, even the answer machine is broken…this is the fridge speaking, please rearrange the magnetic letters on the door and leave a message
@SC –
‘…this is the fridge speaking.’
🙂
link to archive.is
“Unions have accused the government of “total betrayal” as it emerged that up to 800 redundancies from Clydeside shipyards could result from backsliding on David Cameron’s pledge to provide a steady stream of orders to safeguard the industry.”
If it is going to be bad news, then it’s best to come out before the election.
Thank fuck for the Sex Pistol’s version
That poll result – assuming it’s at least reasonably accurate – is a much more important subject than the subject of this thread is. Support for Indy should by now be hovering around 52/53/54%
The fact, if we assume it is a fact, that it isn’t shows that whatever is being done to increase Indy support isn’t working very well. I’m almost as fed up hearing about slowly slowly catchee monkey as I am hearing about Scotland having “the most politically aware electorate in Europe” or some such tosh. While there has of course been a significant uptick in awareness generally in Scotland it’s too easy to forget that that uptick started from a very low base.
I’m curious as to what it is that Sturgeon will propose to do to build support but it’s noticeable that nothing has been said about unionist propaganda and how to counter it.
The key to getting increased support for independence lies in finding ways of bypassing the msm. There’s a lot of talk about it but no action. Where are the pro indy billboards? Where are the pro indy full page adverts in newspapers, local and/or national?
Radio shortbread confirming the breaking the news that the contract for the new ships are being delayed and redundancies are feared on Clydebank.
Where is Curran and Davidson when you need them to tell us not to worry as we voted no?
Just noticed new thread about WBB. I’d forgotten about that. While there’s no doubt it will help will it – can it – compete with msm?
@Inverclyder
I suspect we’d have to wait for HS4 if we wanted to get back the same day.
@ Schodringers cat Ah only need 6 letters an wan double
Fek OFF.
@Ian Brotherhood
Might have got through by mistake to the Queen Maams fridge that’s older than us and still going strong according to radio Scotland shortbread’s Kaye.
Cool.. 🙂
@galamcennalath
Good catch.
I’m curious as to what it is that Sturgeon will propose to do to build support but it’s noticeable that nothing has been said about unionist propaganda and how to counter it.
we are all waiting to see the result of the EU ref
all the unionists have is propaganda, becoming increasingly thread bare. their arguments are used up and their supporters disappearing like sna’ aff a dyke.
half the no voters will vote IN here in scotland, we need to see how the ruk votes before we decide
@ schodringers cat Ah rung bit got ah frosty reception
I wasn’t sure what this was about so pressed the play button anyway – the pause button got pressed shortly thereafter!
I remember a train journey from London to Glasgow the summer of the Jubilee in 2003 I think. In England all the way up quickly glanced streets and villages and towns with flags and bunting – the minute the border was crossed not a sausage!
Brought a tear to my eye and made me proud to be Scottish.
ronnie anderson
campaign slogan?
vote YES
now
Fek OFF
can we crowd fund the 10,000 flags now ? 🙂
If Wullie Rennie was a fridge he’d be one of those wee worktop efforts, capable of holding no more than a half pint of milk, an old half-onion, and some cheese slices, with an ice-cube tray the same size as a fag packet. And it makes a constant annoying drone…
In short, fuck-all use to anyone.
@galamcennalath
Would these unions be the ones who warned against a Yes vote.
link to ft.com
Better together poster can be seen here
link to twitter.com
Did she sing the whole thing?!
I mean are they owning the bit about crushing rebellious Scots?
Because that is really what the whole bally song is about.
The technical term for it was, I believe, a ‘willeighrenneigh’.
Nice one Ian
As an antidote – here are Burns lines on seeing the desolation of our culture:
“The injured Stuart line is gone,
A race outlandish fills their throne;
An idiot race, to honour lost;
Who know them best despise them most.”
link to online-literature.com
“I don’t like English politics at the moment” “They are very cruel and hard” says a voter in the Orkney’s.
“I’m voting SNP because I’m hoping they’re different”
He’s English and been living in the islands for 11yrs.
Radio 5 live just a minute ago .
Other Scottish voices are still voting Lib/dem… 🙂
Good old auntie!
Brenda has the best job in the world.
No chance of getting sacked,(no matter how much you Fuck it up) then when you do decide to pack it in, (when you have creamed enough from the state),you then get to pass the job on to a member of your own family, (no one else gets a chance at the job).
I have no gripe with Brenda, she’s a nice old dear, but when the time comes, that should be the end of the job for lifers, they can all go and get real jobs in the real world.
Oh aye, you also get some garbage dirge sung after you.
OT: Looks like BAE are talking about reneging on the total building of the Frigates on the Clyde.
Could cost 800 jobs = (
The union that urged it’s members to vote No are, quite rightly, up in arms. Going to vote YES next time?
I can’t stand Katherine Jenkins!
I wonder if she is still doing cocaine and ecstasy!
The three stooges behind her are a complete hoot!
Prats!
@ call me dave queen maams fridge,well she did,nt get it with KoolAid, the Taxpayers paid for it,probably still hiv Frosty the snowman fae their 1st christmas in it
I hate that half baked operatic singing. I think they think its a sign of a sophistication and add to that the choice of song and i was close to topping myself.Give me some good honest prog rock/jazz fusion nothing topretentious may i add.
@ Ghillie They should have Red Hot Rivets rammed up they,re collective arses to remind them of the RedClydesiders.
Frank Wright at 241pm
You joke, of course, but I can still remember the reality of the BBCTV shutdown every night (usually before midnight), where once all the programmes were finished, a snare drum roll would start the playing of god save the queen.
Worryingly, this was before most folks had remotes, so we had to jump out the chair, and get it switched off, before the awful dirge started. Mind, it did mean nobody left the telly on overnight, by accident.
Aye, the BBC have form for this kind of British Nationalist tosh.
Yuck. Showing my ignorance here, but who was that singing? Sounds like an operatic type voice trying oot a mediocre toon.
Headline news radio shortbread, one sentence on
Obama
Edinburgh Schools
Anyone for tennis Murray
Now straight over to Cameron live in London…My friend Barack.
Oh well it’s the news where they are.
David Cameron scraps plans to hit Holyrood campaign trail as his approval ratings plummet in Scotland
link to archive.is
@ Schroedingers Cat
I would expect that for IR2 – and following the new EU “precedent” – that only those domiciled for tax purposes in Scotland would be voting for a start.
Radio North Britain broadcasting live coverage of Cameron getting moist as Obama calls him ‘David’ and whispers sweet nothings about The Special Relationship…
‘We’re stronger together’ sayeth Obama…
And verily the Yoons heids did spin and there was wailing and gnashing of gums and they knew not whether they were coming or going…
Roll on ‘Hokey Cokey 2 – The Reckoning’.
Ian Brotherhood: “Obama calls him ‘David’ and whispers sweet nothings about The Special Relationship…”
When they first met, Obama’s deputy was heard to remark as Cameron was leaving, “What a lightweight.”
Mind you, they hadn’t met Miliband by that point.
“God Save the Queen promotes the class view of Britain ,It emphasizes the superiority of the monarch and the aristocracy over the people.” I find the song Racist at it’s core.
Never stood for this racist anti scots pish in my life
“Britain will go to the back of the queue” says Obama speaking about UK leaving the EU and future trade deals.
You won’t cut a deal any time soon, just a friendly bit of advice.
Déjà vu in spades… Funny old threaty world init!
@Ronnie 4:09pm
That wid be
..-. . -.- — ..-. ..-.
O/T
What is it with unionist politicians and farms.
Last week Rennie was rollicking with pigs and today Ruth is riding a bullock. Is this the latest pastime in tory circles?
link to twitter.com
Looks like brenda’s birthday backfired for the yoons. I predict that a referendum post indy will be on the cards. Not long now.
Why does Ruth Davidson feel the need to mount something whenever a camera is present?
Do we have any psychologists here in WOS to shed some light on this behaviour?
(Just as well Wee Wullie wasn’t there. She might’ve tried to mount him instead – if he thought it’d get him onto Reporting Scotland? he’d let her, nae danger.)
Canny wait till they get round to Flower of Scotland…
Boris Johnston and the rest are such hypocrites. They all interfered in the Scottish Referendum.
Obama supported the Irish Republc and self determination.
The old claim America won the 11WW. The US entered the War in 1941, after being attacked at Pearl Harbour. 2Million American died. 26Million Russian died. Russia and Eastern Europe was devastated. Russia did not even want to enter the War. They called it a Western Imperialst War and told the working class not become involved.
Britain and France wanted to let the Nazis and Communists fight it out among themselves. That is what practically happened. The War debt to the US was paid off in 1990?
The US puts up trade barriers against the EU and US multinational do not pay taxes. The US, UK and France illegally invade other countries.
@ Ian Brotherhood
Re tory Ruth down on the farm, I smell shite and it’s not coming from the bullock.
You couldn’t make it up!
Obama refers to inhabitants of the UK as “English citizens” during his EU speach and” BBC radio bended knee Jock underlings” Concern Troll the listeners by lamenting delayed Naval orders and job losses on the Clyde.
Oh, and Lord Owen complains anout Obama interfering in UK internal matters.
FFS!……..
‘.in much the same way’..
Well Stu, I’m not sure that we’re quite at the stage of seeing long lines of tumbrils, streaming down Princes Street, stuffed full of Yoons, (Davidson, Rennie, Dugdale, Hagues, Cochrane, Massie and Spanners etc), towards the guillotines… but, like Madam Defarge, I’ll get my knitting!
Damn! I can hear it. Nearly wasted my night so it did. I was enjoying myself having a wee half, then hearing that gave me the boak. That video should have carried a health warning 🙂
SNPx2
@ Nana 5.39:
It’s called animal husbandry, don’t you know? 😉
I know the Rev did this for a laugh but that clip induced a weird mixture of depression and disgust at the same time. Could Red Ken get any lower?
I really hope you can continue tickling the ivories, Nana, because we need our links fix every day.
O/T: my second house canvassing today was a Proud Tory (hen’s teeth option in Darkest Lanarkshire) who prayed for Brexit. Next house was a family of four, all SNP.
I feel better now.
Nana says:
“Last week Rennie …. pigs and today Ruth …. bullock”
Kezia? Her turn next. Sticking with the farm animal theme I think that leaves goats, sheep and horses.
Now, SLab have been treating voters like sheep for decades, so maybe that would be appropriate.
Has anybody noticed Betty Windsor and hubby never sings.
They probably don’t know the feckin words either.
@Macbeda
Phil (under his breath) “Liz, it’s that bloody song again”.
Aw FFS, now Wee Wullie’s on Radio North Britain doing a PPB…
He sounds even weirder than usual when he tries to be portentous.
rennie, pulled out of hustings at last moment………..in strathmiglo, his home town………sent his dug along instead
OTHER PEOPLE with delusional behaviour…..and access to my email address..Dear David,
First off, I want to say thank you. Thank you for all the support you’ve given us so far. It has made a real difference. We’ve got real momentum and we’re on course to grow at this election.
And we couldn’t have done it without your support. But, I need to ask you to do one more thing.
In the next few days, we start to hit deadlines.
Thursday is the last day we can get leaflets to Royal Mail to deliver. Next Friday is the last day we can get more letters to print.
If we’re to keep our momentum going, we need to act fast.
We’ve got an immediate £20,000 gap between what we have today and what we need to do to grow at this election.
And with these deadlines approaching fast, we really need you, David.
There’s some really good news which will see any donation you make, doubled!
A really generous donor has been so impressed by Willie’s performance so far, he’s promised to match any donations made before the 3rd of May up to a total value of £25,000.
That means, if you donate £10, it’ll be worth £20 to us, if you donate £25, it’ll be worth £50.
This is a fantastic opportunity – and I know our members and supporters have been incredibly generous so far, but every pound you can donate will be worth the earth to us and make a real difference.
So, David, please, donate £25, or whatever you can afford today and we’ll double your donation.
Anybody know why Kez wasn’t on the reporting Scotland tonight? Hope she’s ok.
Mmm, it’s probably the Tower for me.
Phil: “Liz, it’s that bloody song again”
Liz: “I know dear, they play it everywhere we go”
Phil: “Well I don’t like the lyrics”
Liz: “Don’t worry dear it’s karaoke tonight. You can be Will I Am and I’ll be Britney bitch”.
Brexiteers said that they will just carry on as normal and trade with the USA once they’re out of EU.
Obama has just said “we might have something to say about that” and if the UK exit the EU it will “be at the back of the queue when it comes to any trade negotiations”. They will be dealing with the bigger trading block countries first.
OUCH! that’s gotta hurt the little Englanders.
First the PFI scandal now this
link to archive.is
I wonder what will be next!
@ Jim Thomson Ah did say ah wizna up to date wie Dots N Dashes an specialy no the Dashes,you hiv seen the wie ah walk lol.
Bizarre
I liked Andrew Neil’s Quasimodo impersonation though
Aw fur feks sake , kin somebody put up ah Growdfunder fur Wullie’s Penny an gie him directions tae ah penny gludgie & screw the door shut.
link to m.youtube.com
Kate and Wills wedding. The Australian view. Excitement !
Fuck sake whit is wrong with these half wits. Absolute utter bullocks. Detest sycophancy and hypocrisy. She’s lived so long cause she’s fecking minted not cause she’s a good person.
@ yesindyref2
@ yesindyref2
Have you forwarded your delivery address via the Rev yet?
No address, no fun for you distributing them.
Or should I look for someone else??
“A really generous donor has been so impressed by Willie’s performance so far, he’s promised to match any donations made before the 3rd of May up to a total value of £25,000.”
Look no further than the JRRT.
Proud Cybernat says:
22 April, 2016 at 12:48 pm
Here we observe in crystal clear clarity the cultural divergence between Scotland and England
Now that is the kind of nationalism we can do without. Running down English people doesn’t make you a better Scot, it just makes you a mirror image of all you claim to detest.
There are unfortunately plenty of Scots who have a British Nationalist mentality (see Ibrox every other week) and there are plenty of English people who think Royal family and House of Lords need doing away with (democratically of course).
@Graf
Yes I used the contact form, no reply. I’ll try email later!
Wee Ruthie was talking Bullocks to Bernard Ponsonby about Cameron coming to Scotland because she knew about how the announcement of the probable cancellation of the shipbuilding on the Clyde was going to go down
The Unions can say what they like but they’ve been taken for mugs once again, how many times does it take for these people to get it
I’ll put money now on the Frigates being built in South Korea which was probably the intention the whole time and now that the cheap Chinese steel is organised it’ll be a Go-er
Fergussons is doing really well isn’t it
Aye the SNPs rubbish eh…. SNPx2
On the poll:
————————————————————
From Proud Cybernat:
YES 43.7%
NO 46.9%
DK 9.3%
The change there seems fairly obvious. The YES % from IndyRef#1 has held absolutely firm and has hardly changed. However, what has changed is a significant number of NO voters (9.3%) are now questioning their NO vote. There is 9.3% of the population (on this poll) who are now up for grabs and for pqrsuasion; 9.3% of the population who are now at least thinking indy might just be the better option for them in IndyRef#2.
—————————————————————-
9.3% Don’t know is a fantastic result for Yes.
(Perhaps some now realise that they were lied to about EU membership by Project Fear.)
It means that a lot of No voters are re-evaluating their position.
And they need to!
Brexit is causing more than a fair few No voters cause for concern.
All No voters should be asked the question: ‘If the UK leaves the EU when opposed to Scotland’s will to stay – would you then vote for Scotland’s independence to guarantee EU membership?’
A Yes response to that question from a No voter, however qualified, shows a shift in mindset to make a Yes vote possible.
Once this is actually admitted then psychological barriers to a Yes vote have fallen.
Hence, the higher Yes can get the Don’t Know percentage the better!
That’s one reason why the EU referendum is so important. Framing is key – and an impending Brexit focuses the mind.
Confused. can someone tell me what we are supposed to be watching on this post?
First up for me was a floozy singing the Britnat anthem with assorted Britnat eejits in the background
second up something about Davidson being unclear about blocking or not blocking a referendum and signing up without question for Osbourne’s first offer on the fiscal framework
Lastly there was a video about dinosaurs.
I liked the last one, but I thought this was a political website – was there a point?
And, not a neck tie worn by anyone, oh how standards have dropped since Jeremy Corbyn was hauled over the coals for this sort of lack of respect.
@ yesindyref2
OK. Will let you know quickly if it arrives.
The Rev has been quiet today, maybe he’s on a crisp and perfumed cider binge thingy… 😉
All No voters should be asked the question: ‘If the UK leaves the EU when opposed to Scotland’s will to stay – would you then vote for Scotland’s independence to guarantee EU membership?’
after a leave on the 23rd june, it will be the only question asked and unavoidable
thats why kez is going to be replaced by sarwar in the nick of time to answer this question
Now that Obama has clearly stated that the uk, in the event of a brexit, will “be at the back of the queue” when it comes to negotiating a trade deal, is it time to have a long hard look at this so called “special relationship”, no matter the outcome of the EU referendum ?
….
The next indyref should be fun, so much to throw back at project fear 2 exponents.
Fuck , top of the pops has went right down hill, and who is the DJs ? Sure I spotted a Saville , Blackburn & Diddy Hamilton though!
Macbeda@6.23
I heard that Brenda and Phil crank up the radiogramme(walnut effect, remember them?)blasting out Cypress Hill and The House Of Pain.
Buckie Hoose rockin every night, Brenda doing the moves to Insane, and Phil bouncing to Jump Around, and then they go overboard with the Wu Tangs.
There’s an image for the weekend!!!
SNPx2
Jamie Arriere says:
22 April, 2016 at 1:57 pm
> Jump on a stag … Take some sheep for a walk?
For some reason, can’t think why, my next thought was welly boots. Now most of our dear leaders would have technical difficulties in clamping sheep to welly boots, and one of them’s so wee he might not manage.
So I was thinking of our three non-SNP MPs; or rather, one in particular.
re Obama
You just have to love Obama telling the English that they are too wee and too poor and too weak and too etc to leave the EU. How long before some political wit from the US of A is telling them that the aliens will get them. How long before Lard Robertson of Islay is forecasting the end of civilization if they vote to leave the EU.
Irony bypasses by the thousands. Those irony bypasses must come really cheap as there have been so many of them the last few weeks.
Stu Mac I really don’t know what you are on about, stating the blinding obvious that the Scottish psyche is different from the English, and that is all he said. If he did try and disrespect the English he would get shot shift quite quickly, that’s my friends and neighbors!
All he was saying was Scotland’s people tend to be different in their outlook.
He emphasised his point with a quote from a Scotsman who lived in England for a while. His point that that was almost equidistant from the time he wrote that and the act of union and today is very telling.
Don’t confuse the fact that Rangers support are English in outlook, because in so doing you are engaging in a stereotype that is infantile in construction.
Just to say that we are not all like that here in CYMRU (Wales). I think dear Katherine has many commendable attributes, but being a total front-door-welcome-carpet for the BritState to wipe its dirty feet on, is not her most endearing one ! I’d like to apologise to you, our fantastically energised cousins up there in ALBA for being such an embarrassing Celtic fringe in the truest sense – we WILL follow you shortly, just as soon as we fully realise what and who is keeping us from running alongside you – OURSELVES!
God save our luxurious Queen
Family funded like a Football Team
Life like a dream
Elitist and gregarious
Plebs are so onerous
Born to drain all of us
God help Aber-deen
Yesterday was the only party in town, Lizzies party overshadowed the rest by miles.
Long to Reign Over Us?
Sounds a bit archaic does it not? Where is the democracy in that?
@Tim Criced i Gymru
Your post gave me goose pimples! Cheers to our friends in Wales.
Andrew Neill is so debauched looking in that vid, he looks ready to explode.
A perfect record of a Yoon groveling in the fruits of the Union.
Tim Criced i Gymru: please don’t apologise. We have more cringers than you do.
I prefer it when Ms Jenkins sings this.:
link to m.youtube.com
And the only Welsh I know are Glasgow, Renfrew, Govan, Linlithgow, Paisley, Kelso, Penicuik, Cadzow, and so on…..
If the SNP doesn’t win an outright majority, hopefully with over 50% of the vote, we can forget about independence for ten generations, let alone one.
Don’t let the Greens, RISE and The National divide the SNP vote.
SNP supporters, don’t be duped into giving your list vote to other parties.
Well f=ck me, never knew this thread was about the Greens, RISE and The National dividing the SNP vote.
Cheers Rock.
RE Obama
The corporate media have been making a great noise about Obama’s intervention being an awful day for the BREXITers.
That’s definitely not my take on it, judging by the reaction of people on the street. Wishful thinking by the BBC, perhaps? Cameron’s latest Project Fear initiative could backfire badly. Nobody likes being told what to do. Back of the queue indeed. Unlike the indyref campaign, when he had the cushion of a 35% lead to throw away, this time round he won’t have that luxury.
Ken500 @17:57 said:
All O/T, of course, but lacking one minor detail: Stalin and Hitler had a sweet wee secret deal to carve up independent Poland, and that was the green light for the whole show. In 1941 the Russians caught the blowback in a really big way, and the Poles only got rid of them and became truly independent again in 1991.
Yep that clip of Neil epitomises and encapsulates the cringing Britnat jock in a couple of minutes. Maybe they should build a statue of him in the new town in Edinburgh. Nawbag heartlands.
@Tim Criced i Gymru
No need to oppologise Tim we,ve got more of those than you,s an they dont sing.
Stalin and Hitler had a Pact for a year. In an attempt to keep Russia out of another devastating war. 1WW caused by European Royalty reciprocating Treaties. Rivalries in the Balkans. The ‘Divine right to rule’. Czar Nicholas 11 and the Kaiser. Q Victoria’s family. German. Her mother and husband were German. Her daughter was Kaiser’s mother. Other daughter the Czar’s mother. Czar’s wife was German. Prussian? Cousins married cousins. Their parents were cousins. Russia withdrew from 1WW in 1917 The Russian Revolution.
Poland was handed to Russian dominance at Yalta after the 11WW by the Allies. The 11WW was a waste of time.
Ken500said:
Oh, sorry, I must have stumbled into the wrong website. And I thought that it was all about independence of small countries from the unwanted influence of their bigger and greedier neighbours!
But then again…
Neil is an alcoholic like his best friend Cameron. Just need to look at them. Too much red wine at taxpayers expense. Neil was Thatcher’s henchman. There are archives of his reports on Scotland, when Thatcher was illegally and secretly taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland and cutting every manufacturing industry. Ravenscraig, Corpeth smelter, Linwood vehicle production, the mines. Creating unemployment. Using the revenues to build Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. Making speeches about ‘we the English people are generous to you Scots’ at the General Assembly. ‘The Sermon on the Mound’. Writing ‘this must be kept secret’ on Gov documents. One of her Ministers resigned. Lang and Forsyth went along with it.
Cameron/Osbourne have tried to destroy the Oil sector, losing thousands of jobs. They have stopped coal production, banned onshore wind turbines in England, stopped investment in solar and renewables.
As a singer myself I would have refused that gig – no matter what the offer was. Could never bring myself to sing that sycophantic codswallop.
Since I became aware of the existence of Katherine Jenkins, I have held her attributes in high regard; those attributes being that her physical megabits and microbits all fit together rather well – the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
Eh’m no fussed aboot the fact that she can sing; she is aesthetically pleasing. The episode(s) of Emmerdale that she was in was/were a ‘televisual feast’.
Churchill and Roosevelt went along with it.
Churchill took all Iran’s Oil in the 1950’s. M15/CIA caused unrest and the PM was put in jail. The deposed Shah was reinstated. The papers are available in the archives at Congress.
Suez crisis. McMillan was unstable. Vietnam War. France/US. North Korea has been sanctions for years. The Chinese try to keep them supplied. The Middle East. Illegal wars. Supporting Israel an apartheid State and Saudia Arabia an absolute despot monarchy. So much for respecting other countries.
@Ruby
Thanks for that Herald (link), it was well down the page on the news page, not the main one, when I looked.
It’s being claimed already (by a poster) that the ToBA (Terms of Business Agreement) between the MOD and BaE protect the jobs on the Clyde. But I think the 2009 ToBA set up by Labour was terminated in 2014 in exchange for the MOD ordering the 3 OPVs to be called HMS Forth, HMS Medway and HMS Trent, currently being built.
That may have had a mention in the HoC, not sure, but it was certainly speculated on in defence circles. Apparently there may still be design issues which is likely, but it remains to be seen if the jobs are safe – or not.
The Union (GMB) is right – this all needs to be clarified urgently if Fallon can be found or Cameron can be removed from Obama’s embrace.
Ken 500 @9.25
Ken, your quote ” WW11 was a waste of time” is total nonsense.
All wars are appalling but without the destruction of the Nazi regime, Europe would have been enslaved.
Plans for “Operation Sealion”, the Invasion of Britain, called for the extermination of all potential leaders and the deportation of all men over eighteen to Germany. It goes without saying that all Jews would be murdered.
This had already happened wherever the Nazis set foot, so it is not idle speculation.
Resistance to such a foul regime was the only possible policy, and was anything but “a waste of time”
About Katherine Jenkins, links with the Royals go back a bit. Maybe 8 years ago she sang at Balmoral (Queen not there) for some charity gala, forget which.
Torys Open Warfare
Nicholas Soames
It’s been a long day but of one thing I am sure @BorisJohnson has really bogged it and showed himself up as an ocean going clot #MugWump
Ken500, spare us the Russian propaganda, please. Since when is the fate of any country something to be decided by the connivance of the Great Powers?
Your “peace-loving” Soviet Union, with the connivance of Nazi Germany, invaded and occupied eastern Poland, unprovoked, in September 1939. It then invaded independent Finland, unprovoked, in November 1939. It had just as much blood on its hands as anyone.
It’s funny (not the laughing kind) how some people seem unable to translate the notion of self-determination to anywhere that happens to involve Russia. It’s not even as though it’s Communist any more!
The 11WW started because of the invasion of Poland. Poland was handed to Russian dominance at Yalta. In that respect and of the Millions of deaths. It was unfortunate. 26Million Russians died. It was Russia which saved the West. (1 in 6) 16Million Germans died. (1 in 4) 6 Million Poles, 6Million Jews, 2 Million Americans, 1/2Million French, 1/2Million British – in Europe,
schrodingers cat says: 22 April, 2016 at 12:01 pm:
“i wonder how popular brenda is in scotland?
I would think she is a lot less popular now than when she interfered in the last referendum and even more unpopular now that Ruthie has claimed her for her Scottish election campaign.
@Angus Anderson says: 22 April, 2016 at 12:01 pm
“Portillo fully erect in seconds. Ken takes longer.”
Ken actually looks like he is about to burst out laughing.
It invaded to protect it’s borders. Create a buffer. In Finland for 3 months. UK/US/France have invaded half the world. Planted Nuclear throughout the world. Russia can be invaded through the Steppes but the Russian winter prevents retreat. Napoleon and Hitler.
If Scotland was Independent it could build it’s own frigates, liners, supply and turbines instead of spending £1/2Billion a year on Trident and paying off loan repayments it doesn’t borrow or spend. £4Billion. Norway builds 100 vessels a year.
@Gray says: 22 April, 2016 at 12:15 pm:
” Forgot a verse”.
The whole anthem was first published in, “The Gentleman’s Magazine”, when Bonnie Prince Charlie’s army was marching on London. It was a fervent English prayer to save the English Monarch from the Scots.
It was them performed at the Dury Lane Theatre and then in theatres and music halls across the entire Kingdom of England, (that included Wales and all Ireland).
The truth is it has always been an anti-Scottish dirge from very frightened Englanders. – and it always will be.
mr peffers
welcome back. hope this is interest to you, his new idea about the origins of q celtic as the bronze age language which came from britain and spread from the north across europe
barry cunliffe lecture the celts
link to youtube.com
I’ve always found this rather uplifting; recorded live in The music hall Aberdeen, in the 80s.
link to youtube.com
Is it credible that the MoD are genuinely having a cash flow crisis or is it possible that the feeling is that if the SNP do get another Holyrood majority then independence is inevitable and shipbuilding jobs are a far better sweetie for some other part of the rUK? Or more cynical might be that this is some twisted attempt to put pressure on Sturgeon directly through a confusion between Govan and Govanhill. Certainly surprising seeing anything with as much potential to weaken support for the union as this coming out before the election.
@dennis says: 22 April, 2016 at 12:42 pm:
“Copyright for God save the queen has expired has it not”>/I>
Not only has it never been copyrighted but it has never actually been an official National Anthem for no such thing officially exists.
As I post up-thread it was first printed as a prayer in an article in the “Gentleman’s Magazine”, when the Bonnie Prince’s army was marching on London.
It was then set to the music of an ancient, (international), folk song by an actor at the Dury Lane Theatre in London.
Here is a cite for the Gentleman’s Magazine archives. It is, by the way, a very interesting read. For the very first publishing of the anthem just look for the date of Prince Charlie marching upon London.
Ken 500
Your view of the world is seriously skewed due to your apparent love of Stalin’s Soviet Union.
Finland was invaded only because Stalin thought he could get away with it. The Finns won the Winter War but lost a lot of territory in a subsequent invasion, which Russia still retains.
Stalin also secretly connived with Hitler to invade Poland and to split the country between them., in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
Stalin arranged the murder of 9,000 Polish officers at Katyn, and the deportation of a million Poles to Siberia. Russia still retains parts of 1939 Poland.
This is not to decry the fortitude of the Russian people during the war, but they were Ill served by their blood-thirsty, paranoid leader, who deserves nothing but disgust and contempt.
Ken500 said:
Duh. The threadbare excuse of imperialists the world over. You should listen to yourself. Pathetic.
Enough.
Glad to see you back with a vengeance, Mr Peffers.
I hoped it was just technical problems with your console.
Could I recommend to all Neo-Jacobites: “Fight for a Throne”, by Christopher Duffy?
The more I read of those times, the more I think Jacobite= Scottish Patriot, and not the simple Highland/Gaelic-speaking faction which the Yoon Establishment obsesses about.
And then, there’s Stuart McHardy’s “Scotland’s Future History”……
😎
First the PFI scandal now this
link to archive.is
I wonder what will be next!
Ruby I posted a comment about 6 weeks ago on another thread and it was about this very subject.
I’d heard from an SNP insider that BEA systems were practically begging the SG to help them in their quest against the UK Government who they (BEA) believe were trying to get 5 of the new frigates built in S. Korea.
No warships ever built overseas?
Watch this space.
Four faces from the recent past at the Clydebank shipyards
from the twitter link.
link to twitter.com
Some folks Union Jack underpants with streaks of green are showing.
Sorry I hope this is the correct link.
Shipbuilding:
link to youtube.com
re Obama
Well the BBC might have been having orgasmatron levels of ecstasy over Obamas intervention on the EU REF but most of the English I know aren’t. In fact some if not most of their utterances aren’t repeatable here, the Eds would be having a long night cleaning them. The rest of their utterances were even more unsavoury!
I view it as just another nail in the UKOK Union and the BBC. I welcome it. I think the BBC overdid it and it has stirred up some English folk into voting to leave who were just going to plain abstain because they weren’t impressed by either side in the EU REF.
@ yesindyref2 – 9:45
It was July 2006, to celebrate Betty’s 80th, in aid of the Anthony Nolan Trust.
Ken Bruce compered.
Katherine was superb, Fiona Kennedy not so much.
Hog roasts were good, though!
Sad old man with a history of using young women,this singer is not to blame she is after all working,only doing her job,she is no different from you or me,everyone of us has had to shovel shit at one time or another.
As the bitter old fool looks over at his guests he must see,that unlike him they have accepted that for them it is over,they are on the fringes now,yesterday’s men.
This is AN’s last hurrah,he has failed to put the ‘jocks’ back in their box,he knows his time is over,he has joined his guests on the fringes,he knows UKOK is over.
There has been a lot of ‘celebrity’ deaths this year,the expiry of UKOK in 2016 will surely be the biggest shock of them all,however the re-birth of the Scottish nation will restore the natural order of things.
We live in interesting times………
Some British establishment figures wanted to make a Pact with Hitler. In fact some supported the Nazis. Even Royals gave Nazi salutes. Disgusting and comtempt? Some even cut off their brother in law.
Seriously, is there another country in the world you could live in that is more shit than living in Scotland.
UK declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland,
Russia invaded Poland,did UK declare war on Russia also,
and if not why not?
UK went to war to free Poland but at end of war left Poland to be ruled by Russia ,
WTF.
Jeezuss Fekin Cristo……
That caught me off guard
Ahh well, life in a forward looking all inclusive democracy eh!
@ Stu Mac
“Now that is the kind of nationalism we can do without. Running down English people doesn’t make you a better Scot, it just makes you a mirror image of all you claim to detest.”
No one is “running down English peple”. A big chunk of my own family are good English people (and other nationalities). My point wasn’t about nationalism – it was about culturalism.
In terms of the monarchy people in the rUK (though mainly in England) are more pro-monarchy than they are in Scotland. That is an indisputable fact. There are countless attitude surveys which prove that. And, when it comes to Charles’ succession, that cultural difference between Scotland and England becomes even more pronounced. We simply do not see the monarchy in the same way – we just don’t. It’s not nationalism that causes this. We are simply culturally different. There’s nothing wrong with people be culturally different. Cultural divergence should be celebrated, not condemned. It as nothing to do with ‘nationalism’ and everything to do with how we view governance and democracy.
People in England, by and large, are more content with the form of government that they have than people in Scotland. Scotland has awoken and is (rightly) challenging this form of governance and for very good reason–it is fundamentally anti-democratic. Hopefully people in England will catch up.
Most Scots can see right through the Royal pomp and circumstance ‘tradition’ that blinds our southern cousins as nothing more than a pile of steaming keech. Their fabulous wealth and privilege does not and nor should it make them any better or more worthy than you or I. If you think otherwise then you are probably a loyalist and an anti-democrat. I have no time for that.
And it’s not about creating some socialist Utopia either here in Scotland. It’s simply about equality, democracy and binning feudalism. But London, alas, hasn’t quite grasped that bit yet. And it probably never will. Cultural difference. Hence why Scotland has to go and make its own way. We’re just too different to our southern cousin to be able to co-habit the same house–as RLS observed.
One_Scot:
Dinna fash:
link to m.youtube.com
All will be well. Can’t stop the future.
Voting patterns are different. English working class vote Tory and UKIP. They voted for Thatcher. People in Scotland get a UK Gov and policies for which they did not vote. The lie that Scotland was/is subsidised when Westminster secretly and illegally took the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland. Scotland has been completely betrayed by Westminster. The ‘Vow’, etc. It is just disgusting and contempt. Vote NO you get nothing. People were warned.
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
told ya
Shipbuilding jobs. For anyone who doesn’t follow Twitter, it’s worth a wee look tonight!
link to mobile.twitter.com
Even Nicola having a late evening go at Labour for fronting the Tories in BetterTogether and misleading the shipyard workers.
Like PFI, Labour says “wisnae us”, oh yes it fcking was!
@ fireproofjim
Sorry – not been following the thread but – Finland was allied with the Nazis. The Soviet Union invaded to protect it’s North border from invasion by “the West”, which means UK under Churchill in support of the White Russians.
link to en.wikipedia.org
I expect Polscot and ewan to make an appearance soon to refute what I’ve just posted but that’s OK.
“told ya”.
So Willie slides down the razor blade of political life…..
Kelty’s never felt so good.
@galamcennalath
All these Blair McD tweets coming home to roost now… it’s a massacre. 🙂
Proud Cybernat, you’re back peddling. Heartening to see that I wasn’t the only one who found your ‘fight nationalism with nationalism’ approach distasteful.
The line between culturalism and nationalism might be blurred in your eyes, but with that sort of poor vision you should be more concerned about the much finer line between nationalism and racism.
Scott Finlayson
Scott. At the end of the war Stalin had promised democratic elections In Poland. Churchill wanted to hold him to it, even studying the possibility of forcing the Russians out in a crazy plan called Operation Unthinkable.
Wiser heads prevailed and the Americans thought they could persuade Stalin to quit Poland, but to no avail and Stalin imposed his usual reign of terror on the Poles, which lasted forty years.
There was no appetite in the west to confront the Soviet Union, whom many saw as their staunch ally and Propaganda had portrayed Stalin as kindly Uncle Joe.
Poland was the unfortunate victim of Soviet duplicity, both at the beginning and end of the war, but there was nothing the West could have done short of war, and nobody wanted that.
The Union Jack underpants are showing.
Never trust a Tory. David Clegg got an award for Journalism. The ‘Vow’.
Vote NO you get nothing. Some folk will never learn.
@ Scot Finlayson
For Heaven’s sake read a book or watch a documentary. I recommend “Barbarossa” by Alan Clark, or World at War by Jeremy Isaacs available on Youtube.
link to youtube.com
The UK had a treaty with Poland. Which is why war was declared after Germany invaded. But there was still a long “phoney war” before any action.
Before the USSR invaded Poland they fought the German war machine all the way from Stalingrad to Warsaw and then on to Berlin.
What would you expect them to do? Make blinis for their imperial masters?
OT
Might be a bit late as they’ll no doubt get the audience from Dundee QT to attend but you can apply to be an audience member at the next leaders debate on 1st May.
link to bbc.co.uk
With the corruption scandal at North Lanarkshire Council, BAE and the current poll predictions it should be a bloodbath.
If applying it might be a good idea to have a double barreled name like Torquil Farquharson Mcpigshagger III or tell them you have a union jack suit and you’re bound to get in.
Would be worth being there for the last TV event for Kez and probably Wee Wullie Rennie too. Nice to give their political careers a good send off.
Word on the street is that JaBa has her jacket on a shoogly peg with her constituents too and will be lucky to scrape through! She’ll probably get a job cleaning stairs like Magrit so don’t be up all night worrying about her. Either that or you will be able to ask her if they sausage rolls are hot very soon.
Churchill took Iran’s Oil in the 50’s. Re-imposed the deposed Shah. Suez Crisis. Indian Partition, France/US Vietnam, Ireland, South Africa, Middle East. Promised votes reneged. North Korea sanctioned for years. Support for apartheid Israel and absolute despot monarchy Saudi Arabia.
UK/US and France have invaded half the world. China, Asia, Middle East, Africa, South America. They have created the worst migrant crisis in Europe since the 11WW.
@Tîm Criced i Gymru – don’t apologise, after all we have our own embarrassing Andra Neil giving it laldy,
Capella@11.25
This thread seems to have got away from the original theme a bit!
The invasion of Finland in 1939 was nothing to do with the rather foolish landings by British and French forces in Murmansk in 1919 in an effort to stop the Bolsheviks. They withdrew pretty soon afterwards and everybody settled for the status quo.
Anyway twenty years later, in 1939, Finland was invaded by the Soviet Union in an imperialist land grab, not to protect its Northern border.
As a result the British and French considered sending help to Finland in 1940, but events over-took them as Holland, Belgium and France fell.
Then in 1941 the Germans invaded the Soviet Union and Finland appealed for help from Hitler, on the principle that “my enemy’s enemy is my friend”
It is interesting to think that Britain and France could have been fighting both the Soviet Union and the Nazis in 1940 if things had been timed slightly differently.
Very intersting
tompride.wordpress.com/2016/04/20/press-freedom-uk-drops-below-tonga-belize-and-ghana-in-new-report/
So disappointed to have missed last night’s performance by kat Jenkins and her backing group ‘the night sweats’
Don’t know how much more of this crap we can take.
Please! please! please!
SNPx2 on May 5th
Russia became a totalitarian State because of the 1WW and 11WW. They built up weaponry until it was damaging their economy. The US did the same. It was bankrupting both countries. That is why there were disarmament Treaties in the 70/80’s.
Illegal wars, redundant weaponry and banking deregulation have caused the UK/US debt.
Fireproofjim, why are you talking about what the Americans might have done about Stalin’s “Reign of Terror” in Poland when the Americans had their own Reigns and their own terrors to busy themselves with?
And, as a matter of fact, the Soviet satellites had democratic elections. I’m happy to discuss varying definitions of democracy but you seem to forget that in 1945 the US and Britain had colonies and let me assure you there’s nothing democratic about colonialism.
Ask any African-America what he thought of American democracy in 1945. While you’re at it you might ask any Philipino, South American, and/or anyone unlucky enough to live in the fifth of the world that Britain claimed for its empire.
Is any of that stuff mentioned on the back of this month’s Corn Flakes box?
Ken 500
Would you not agree, history makes fools of us all,
Trying to shoehorn a completely different age, with diverse imperatives in time of war, into a sentence that satisfies modern morals is a task too far for us mortals!
Fireproof Jim
Just as an aside are you aware of the mutiny with Scottish regiments when they refused to fight alongside White Russians after ww1?
Luigi says:
22 April, 2016 at 8:45 pm
RE Obama
The corporate media have been making a great noise about Obama’s intervention being an awful day for the BREXITers.
That’s definitely not my take on it, judging by the reaction of people on the street. Wishful thinking by the BBC, perhaps? Cameron’s latest Project Fear initiative could backfire badly. Nobody likes being told what to do. Back of the queue indeed. Unlike the indyref campaign, when he had the cushion of a 35% lead to throw away, this time round he won’t have that luxury.
——–
Much stronger comments than most people I think expected from Obama. You can see why Boris and the Brexit campaign tried so hard to discourage him from speaking out. “Back of the Queue” is the line that everyone will remember from today.
Good article here explaining why it is so damaging. It makes the economic case all about uncertainty – the same tactic that was used so effectively against Scotland.
link to theguardian.com?
Mixed feelings about Obama’s intervention. No-one liked it when he spoke about the Scottish referendum, although it was in far less harsh terms than today.
On the other hand, it’s a taste of their own medicine for some of the Britnats who welcomed Obama interfering before.
And personally, I don’t think a Brexit would make Scottish independence any easier.
The last thing the Russian wanted was to go to war. They described it as a ‘capitalist Imperial war’. They advised the working classes not to become involved in it. They were left protecting Britain and France. The reason Hitler couldn’t invade Britain was because of the conflict with the Soviet Union. Britain and France wanted to leave the Nazis and the Communists to fight it out. That happened.
In Asia the people supported the Japs because they wanted rid of British rule, They acted as a fifth column. The Singapore surrender could have been avoided. The Japanese supply line was extended and their defences were weakened. US nuked Japan.Some claim it was because Russia was going to confront Japan. A show of strength. There are reports Japanese were going to surrender if they got to keep their Emperor. They kept him in any case.
@Capella
Russia invaded Poland 17 September 1939 after the Soviet–Japanese ceasefire on the 16th Sept, two weeks after the Germans invaded Poland,
as part of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact,
Russia and Germany were trying to carve up Eastern Europe,
theory is Germany invaded Russia before Russia could move against Germany,
Russia could move against the West after their ceasefire with Japan in the East,
Japan needed a ceasefire with Russia because of their invasion of China,
if you could name a book etc that tells me why UK went to war with Germany because they invaded Poland and not to war with Russia who invaded Poland two weeks later.
Ruthie bareback on a bison? You’re Putin me on, hope it wasn’t topless.
What’s next?
Kezia on a dinosaur perhaps?
Prefer the image of Nicola on a unicorn or maybe Daenerys Targaryen-like on a dragon.
The 1WW and 11WW are still what defines Europe and the world. UK/US and France still do not seem to learn the lessons. Germany and Russia do not get so involved in conflict. Germany depends on Russian gas. Russia doesn’t approve of the EU/US.
It was Obama who brought up the 11WW. It was Boris Johnston who suggested Churchill’s bust was shifted in the White House and Obama has a problem with the British Empire because of his Kenyan background. Mau Mau.
NeoconNat@12.06
It is a fact that the Americans, rather naively, thought that they could make a deal with Stalin in 1945 to ensure Poland had a freely elected government. It is a also a fact that they were wrong.
As for you saying the Soviet satellites had democratic elections, well that is just arrant rubbish.
I would remind you that there was only one party permitted to stand in these elections and when the people objected they were crushed by the Soviets, in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, East Germany and Poland, at various times.
As soon as the opportunity arose all the satellites got rid of all vestiges of the Soviet regime and will never go back.
As for you implyiing that I am somehow ignoring the faults of the West, well that was not part of the discussion, and I am aware there have been many such faults, however, I never at any time in my posts made any attempt to make excuses for British Imperialism or colonialism or US aggression, but that is another story and there is no time to do that.
I agree with Andrew MacLean that history makes fools of us all and we all probably see it through the distorting mirror of our own experience and of what we have grasped through the fog of information and misinformation to which we have been subjected.
‘Russia and Germany were trying to carve up Eastern Europe’ So exactly why did Germany invade Russia and why did Russia not invade France and Britain?
The Russians decided rather than ‘carving up Eastern Europe with Germany’, to attack Germany and 26Million Russians died.. Aye that makes nonsense,
The Americans naive. Never. How naive is that.
Ken 500
“So why did Germany invade Russia.”
That is exactly what Stalin asked in June 1940. After all he had been a loyal supporter of the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, had conspired with Hitler to steal half of Poland, and had supplied the Germans with all the startegic materials and foodstuffs for which they asked.
In fact the last trainload of supplies crossed the German frontier as the German tanks rolled into Russia.
Hitler wanted “Lebensraum” literally living space for his dream of a German empire in the east.
He wrote about in in Mein Kampf, but nobody took him seriously. Despite warnings from British intelligence and his own agents Stalin did nothing and as a result the Soviet armies suffered a shattering series of defeats, for which Stalin was largely responsible, having executed most of his experienced officers in a series of bloody purges in the late 1930s
Correction – should have been June 1941, not 1940
Apparently a lot of the leading neocons in America, were Marxist Trots back in the ’70s. It’s a funny old world.
Ken
The Russians didn’t get involved in war ??????
Cuban, Cold war Athgan war. Proxy wars. Nuclear arms race, Crimea ?
Oh, dear. Oh, very, very dear. Just… oh, dear.
“He who forgets the lessons of history is destined to repeat it.” as my lecturer used to say, a long time ago.
@ Scot Finlayson apologies for my rather tetchy response last night. My view is that the UK leaders were happy for Hitler to defeat Russia on his way to the Baku oilfields.
Alan Clark’s “Barbarossa” is the best account of the period. It’s short, well researched and readable. He was a wealthy Tory MP, son of historian Kenneth Clark, so can’t be accused of left wing sympathies.
Main lesson of history is, never trust Westminster.
The Russian protect their borders. Crimea the people voted 90% to go with Russia. It was Russian territory previously and people speak Russian. Afghan to protect their borders etc.
Victim blaming. So instead of ‘carving up Eastern Europe’ and invading Britain and France. Russia decided to have a fight to the death with Hitler, where 26Millions died. Churchill decided to warn the Russians. It was all the Russians own fault. What a load of nonsense That is completely laughable. Speak about rewriting history. People in government in Britain were coming back with bits of paper. Some Royals admired Hitler. Churchill was Involved in the Boer War. Churchill was causing unrest in Iran in the 1950’s and taking all their Oil. Re-imposing the deposed Shah. Poland was handed over to Russian dominance at Yalta. Churchill was voted out after the War. 1945. Suez crisis. Indian Partition Vietnam, Ireland. Middle East.
The secret Balfour Agreement leading to years over unrest in the Middle East.Migrants flooding into Palestine from Europe. An apartheid State. Do unto others etc. Building houses on other people’s land.
Fireproofjim, the Soviets believed, not only that their system including elections were democratic, but that their democracy was superior and more democratic than the form of democracy found in western countries. We can go through the tedious process of establishing that well known fact or we can quietly move on. I’m easy.
Secondly, you reveal the quality and level of your understanding when you talk so carelessly about Soviet oppression in its satellites. What about oppression in the US satellites like Guatamala, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Chile, etc? All that dismissed as irrelevant or maybe you don’t know anything about it?
In the Soviet Union a political dissident would typically get roughed up and at worst sent to Siberia. In South America, officially America’s back yard, dissidents were systematically murdered, often brutally and involving torture.
Factor in the plundering, imposed starvation, slaughter, and political corruption on a massive scale found in South and Latin America and you’ll find a common denominator quite easily. And we can go through the numerous coups if need be and compare death tolls.
When you look at it honestly, the poverty, the coups, the arms deals, grim realities of death squads and the body part business, etc., the Soviet Satellites in comparison look like badly managed holiday camps.
It wasn’t all bad, we got new ways of looking at language with words like “disappeared” taking on whole new meanings. And Brasil, a country that on paper should be one of the richest and most powerful in the world in terms of natural resources, was reduced to one of the poorest.
We dodged a bullet there eh, can you imagine Brasil throwing its weight around? Thank God for democracy.
Anyway, carry on, don’t let me disturb your intelligent conversation. Where were we, oh yes, Soviets were the bad guys and we were the good guys who could do nothing but stand and watch the nightmares unfold on those poor people. Tragic.
Tommy: Doesn’t it make you proud to be Scottish?
Mark “Rent-boy” Renton: It’s SHITE being Scottish! We’re the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don’t. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We’re ruled by effete arseholes. It’s a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won’t make any fucking difference!
20 years on, not much has changed.
Fireproofjim says:
22 April, 2016 at 11:58 pm
And it’s interesting to think what might have happened if Britain had responded to the Soviet Union’s suggestion that France, Britain and USSR combine to defend Czechoslovakia against Nazi Germany. Churchill mentions this in his history of the war – he was out of power at the time but supported this (as he later supported a Soviet alliance when Hitler invaded Russia).
Unfortunately a mixture of hatred of communism and in some cases secret admiration of Hitler led to us throwing the Czechs to the wolves. The soviets, seeing this attitude decided a safer, at least short term, policy would be to make a peace pact (not alliance) with the Nazis. Just think we could have been fighting the Nazis earlier with Russia on our side.
Don’t know if anyone else caught the startling news on Sky Sports News this morning of Andy Murray’s defection! The reporter informed us tat Andy’s favourite sporting moment was when he became the England’s first grand slam winner for 25 years.
This clown of a presenter may have made an honest mistake, but the underlying belief is that Scotland doesn’t really exist, not in a grown up way.
My Saturday ruined at 7.54am!
Good grief, this monstrosity exists!
But what’s with the ‘Ruth Davidson for a strong opposition’ title? I feel as if I’m missing out on a hilarious in-joke!
That was a great plan ‘carve up Eastern Europe’ with the Germans, and invade Britain and France? What happened Russia was involved with a war with Germany, protecting the West. Russia had a pact with Germany for a year to try and prevent War. Britain negotiated with Hitler to try and prevent War. There were many Nazi sympathisers in countries on Russian borders. SS Divisions and collaborators. Hitler was a psychopath. Even German Army Officers tried to kill him. Rommel died.
NeoconNat
As I pointed out (but you ignored), I did not make any excuses for the horrible things done by the Western powers in their colonisation and imperialism, and there were plenty of those.
I know all about Guatemala, Chile, Vietnam and so on, none of which can be excused in any way.
I know about,and sympathise with, the Russian takeover of the Crimea, as I have Russian friends in Odessa and have visited Crimea many times, so I know about the desire of the Russians there to rejoin their homeland.
However, the discussion was about the Soviet Union, not Western imperialism.
You say in the Soviet Union a dissident would “get roughed up”. I suppose the bloody purges of the 1930s and 1940s under Stalin could be called “being roughed up”, as could the Gulag Archipelago and the slave labour system which worked millions to death on the White Sea Canal or the Road of Bones in Siberia and a thousand other cruel projects. All well documented by Alexander Solzhenitsyn who experienced years of slave labour for joking about Stalin in a letter home. You call this “a holiday camp”.
You really ought to read any modern history by Russian authors about this time as your education is sadly lacking on the subject.
And finally, remember, it was the people of the Eastern Bloc, including Russia, who rejected the Soviet system at the first opportunity, and they will never go back to it.
” Ian Brotherhood says:22 April, 2016 at 4:31 pm
If Wullie Rennie was a fridge he’d be one of those wee worktop efforts, capable of holding no more than a half pint of milk, an old half-onion, and some cheese slices, with an ice-cube tray the same size as a fag packet. And it makes a constant annoying drone… ”
🙂 🙂 Brilliant Ian! A constant annoying Droning noise… otherwise known as a speech by Willie Rennie, Anas Sarwar, Kezia, Jackie the Hutt, et al
@Ken500
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact,
link to tinyurl.com
After the Soviet–Japanese ceasefire agreement took effect on 16 September, Stalin ordered his own invasion of Poland on 17 September 1939,
events in the East had a great bearing on WW2 in Europe.
@Capella
“He who forgets the lessons of history is destined to repeat it.”
that`s all very well,but who decides the truth of these `lessons of history`
history is written by the winners or as Ford said `all history is bunk`,
but you are correct `never trust Westminster`
air do shlàinte
FireproofJim, a few little simple things.
1) if you are as aware as you now suggest of American attrocities, why are you only talking about Soviet crimes from a moral standpoint?
2) you make a factually incorrect point that Stalin’s purges of the 20s & 30s were Soviet crimes. They were in Russia, not the Soviet Union which didn’t exist in the 30s in terms of Eastern European satellites. Stalin’s policy which he stuck to up until 1939 was “Socialism in one Country”.
3) the emphasis you give to people like Solzenhitsyn is the same old one-sided stuff we can find in any American book on the Cold War. What’s next, you going to quote from the Black Book of Communism? Your discussion is on the same level of the sort of crap we can find daily on the Discovery Channel.
It’s all waffle unless you judge it in the context of what we (The West) were doing and what we (The West) were doing was worse and on a much greater scale.
Im not willing to speak for the people of the former Soviet Union as you presume to do. I don’t watch cable TV documentaries though. Everything you say is riddled with a sort of plastic morality and that’s what I object to, not your delusions and ignorance of history per se.
The Cold War was essentially an American marketing stunt designed to hide the truth of global relations after 1945; the truth is it was pretty much business as usual with the North attacking and robbing the South — the much exaggerated antagonism between East and West amounted to little more than words.
Of course, It was easier to justify attacking poor peasants in the third world if we could convince taxpayers that the peasants were part of an evil communist plan; and the taxpayers had to be convinced because they were paying for it.
The same sort of spin is used now to rob the Middle East, just swap “commie bastard” for “Islamic extremist”. Throw in a few James Bond movies and its a done deal.
You’re about 4 microns away from singing rule Britannia with the junk you are peddling on here.
I’ve been watching “The Man in the High Castle” on Amazon Prime. Based on a Philip K Dick novel and set in 1962, it depicts a truly dystopian America ruled in the east by the 3rd Reich (Hitler lives) and in the West by the Japanese.
If you want to depress yourself about what a police state is like then do watch.
Fortunately for us, we now outsource our worst crimes against humanity.
I am reminded of a school prizegiving back in NZ. At the end it was usual to sing the NZ national anthem (no Maori verse back then) but in my 2nd last year the principal for unknown reasons and apropos of nothing decided we should sing God Save Brenda instead. I dutifully stood but did not sing. My eye caught our PE teacher on the stage who was also not singing. We stood there not singing looking at each other.
He did not report me and neither I nor anyone else reported him for it.
If NZ announced a Republic referendum I would put myself in debt by flying back to qualify to vote in it. You qualify to vote in a GE or referendum if living overseas by setting foot in the country in enough time to register before the vote. Once the vote is held your entitlement does not roll over.
I consider myself too far removed to justify voting in a GE, the flag referendum was a politician borked farce so I didn’t bother.
After Independence Day when we finally get the competence I will race anyone to start a campaign for a Scottish Republic.
NeoconNat
For the third time of telling- I have never excused the excesses of the Western powers and I am not a blind apologist for them as you are for the murderous Stalinist regime. Your argument seems to be ” the west are a bunch of stinkers so it doesn’t matter if the Soviets are a bunch of stinkers as well.”
You have really shown two things in your last post.
You are a total apologist for the worst excesses of the Soviet Union and Stalin in particular.
Your blind ignorance of the history of the Soviet Union shines through in every line. You say the purges of the 1920s and 1930s were only a Russian phenomenon when anybody who can read knows that the worst purges were in the Ukraine when Stalin ordered the liquidation of the Kulaks and the transportation of the Tartars to Siberia, causing an appalling famine in which millions died.
This you call being roughed up a little and you refer to the slave labour camps as holiday camps.
Anyway, I can’t be bothered engaging with stupidity. So I am ending this now except for saying that the only flag I am interested in is not the Union Jack but the Saltire. I suppose you would like to see it with a hammer and sickle embroidered on it.
SNPx2
Fireproofjim, anyone can see you have devoted your time and effort to attacking the Soviet Union and quoting Churchill. Churchill was an animal, btw, openly in favour of gassing “tribes” in the Middle East and elsewhere.
But I haven’t said one thing in support of the Soviet system. In comparison to what happened in US colonies, it was a badly run holiday camp where at least certain minimal living standards existed; no such minimum standards existed in western colonies. I might add that no such minimal standards exist now in Russia or the former Soviet countries and millions are worse off as a result.
Many more millions died under the auspices of US control in the post war period than died in the Soviet Union. But you just want to quote Churchill and attack the Soviet system. I suppose Discovery don’t cover that.
Incidentally, the idea that I’m some sort of supporter of communism couldn’t be more wrong. With that suggestion you took your grasp of reality from tenuous to hilarious. For the purposes of definition, you can pigeonhole me as a Neo-realist when it comes to international politics.
Power which takes many forms is the only element that comes close to explaining history. The Soviet Union had relatively little and the US had a lot. The US accounted for more than 50% of global GDP in 1945 and has dominated since. If you want to understand the post war period, understand that.
Like so many others you confuse foreign policy with missionary work.
Livingstone and Neil are republicans, aren’t they? How humiliating for them.
Stalin played for time as Russia was not ready for war & despite initial reverses, at great human cost, the Soviets defeated the German war machine.
If it wasn’t for your Uncle Joe there would be no Wings & no amateur strategists.
God save the queen. Why? what’s wrong with her?
Could be terminal chronic monarchy….
I’d love to see a colour-chart map of the UK depicting what regions of UK were actually upstanding during that ‘thing’ – and rest-assured, there would’ve been.
Incidentally, did you notice Portillo about to fold his arms, just as he stood, and then quickly realise ‘it just wouldn’t be cricket, old-chap’?