The news is very confusing today
So first of all there’s this (click pic for full story):
…in which the figures appear to show that Iceland’s policy of imposing justice and imprisoning the greedy bankers who caused the world financial crash – rather than just shovelling money at them and letting them carry on robbing everyone – actually saw its economy recover at least as well as anywhere else’s.
But then things get more complicated.
Because THIS story in today’s Sun:
…sees the Conservative government claiming that the last Labour government’s bailout of the banks with public money is going to result in a huge £14bn profit to the taxpayer by the time they finish re-privatising the currently largely state-owned institutions over the next few months.
(Even despite the fact we’ll apparently lose £7bn on RBS, which raises the question of why we’re selling it now at a huge loss when everything’s supposedly on the way to recovery and getting better every day, but that’s another issue.)
So that’s great news, right? Not only does the “bonanza” completely remove the need for another £12bn in brutal welfare cuts, it also leaves a couple of billion on top to spend on sweets or something.
Readers might therefore be puzzled as to why we still then need to attack some of the most vulnerable families in the country – many of them the same “hard-working” people both parties constantly lionise at the expense of “benefit scroungers” – and sell off the nation’s most cherished possessions, massively against the wishes of the electorate, for a measly few hundred million quid.
We know we are.
I still don’t get how the shares can be worth LESS than at the time of the catastrophic crash of 2008.
‘George Osborne considering £5bn cuts to child tax credits
Allies of George Osborne are studying an Institute for Fiscal Studies idea to return tax credits to 2003/4 levels, plus inflation – saving £5bn.
Changes would cut entitlements for about 3.7 million low-income families by about £1,400 a year, the IFS said.
Political allies of Mr Osborne say the move would increase incentives to work…
The IFS has calculated that for the poorest families it would mean a reduction of £845 per child per year.
A family with two children, where at least one parent works full-time, would see their tax credit entitlement running out at £28,847 of gross earnings – rather than £32,969.
However, senior Tory sources suggest that over the years tax credits have allowed big companies to get away with paying employees lower wages.’
link to bbc.co.uk
Why are The Sun making that ridiculous claim? That certainly isn’t my idea of a profit!
“The government paid 500p a share for the bank, compared with the current price of 354.8p.”
link to archive.is
All voters in Scotland and the rest of Uk should be encouraged to read your excellent articles.
Does the Rothschild report make clear who will benefit from the £14m gain? Maybe it will be the Rothschilds themselves
It’s all part of shrinking the State, even though the taxpayers take a massive hit.
Completion of the reversal of what some regard as the glory days of the UK State post WW2 when we the people ended up owning TSB, railways, schools, hospitals etc.
Macmillan, that great Tory leader famously stated this as “selling the family silver” 60 years ago.
‘Is the UK’s austerity myth about to crumble?’
”The (UKs) current austerity doctrine has been driven by an influential paper by two American economists, Reinhart and Rogoff, which demonstrated that public debt of more than 90% of GDP slows growth.
Their work was cited by the IMF and the UK Treasury in initial justifications of austerity policies that have driven poverty, unemployment, benefits cuts and a plethora of anti-cuts protests.
Now all of that might have been worth it had it stopped another massive collapse in the economy, but Reinhart and Rogoff’s work hasn’t just been debunked, they themselves have admitted it was wrong after Thomas Herndon, an economics student writing an essay on their report, found basic errors in the spreadsheet.
Honestly, I didn’t make that up!’’
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
“Why are The Sun making that ridiculous claim? That certainly isn’t my idea of a profit!”
The piece notes that the £14bn profit is DESPITE a £7bn loss on RBS.
one thing that the Icelandic government did do was to underwrite the debts of the citizenry thereby ending personal debt overnight. Any bank which was further exposed went to the wall, as per true market forces ideology. Via removing personal debt, the citizenry were free to rebuild their own personal wealth, savings etc resulting in Iceland having the largest growth in the European sphere. This is not news in the economic and academic world where Iceland reported double figure growth rates in 2009 onwards. whereas in the UK…….
Neo-con ideology on the march, implemented whether the stupid voters like it or not.
Wealth belongs to the wealthy.
55% voted for UK governance to continue, and then sent 56 SNP MPs to the front line as cannon fodder.
Just in case any of you No voters have crawled out of your caves and bought the internet – happy?
So Osborne claims that by making the poor working people even poorer companies will pay them more than the minimum they can get away worth and these poor people will have to work even harder just to stand still and our already appalling child poverty record will be increased?
Better together innit?
Grouse Beater
‘55% voted for UK governance to continue, and then sent 56 SNP MPs to the front line as cannon fodder.’
This forms the basis of my lengthy rant at the tv last night watching Osborne at Mansion House. ‘No’ voting mother in law was in attendance.
Scunnered that we’ve left ourselves open to a continuation of this right wing madness.
Of course you are ignoring the fact that the supposed £12billion of budget cuts are per year and the supposed asset sale windfall is one off income. You make yourself look fiscally ignorant by making the argument that the sales make the cuts unnecessary (still assuming both claims to be real and true, which they aren’t).
George Osborne Austerity banquet
link to youtube.com
I guess austerity is necessary in order to fund Trident or maybe it’s just to keep the proles in their rightful place at the bottom of the Corpocrat ladder.
More on the situation in Iceland:
link to en.wikipedia.org
They are OK now, but they had a nasty time of it after 2008.
Top Tip for the legendary Towel Folder, George Osborne;
Selling shares at a price LOWER than the purchase price is called a LOSS.
Wise investors are those who WAIT until the SELL price is at least EQUAL TO or GREATER THAN the PURCHASE price.
When this happens they prevent making a LOSS. If the sale price continues to RISE, the GREATER THE PROFIT.
Folding towels in a department store was surely useful experience but even the most dim witted, shelf stacking assistant knows this.
They used to call it “Creative Accounting”
They don’t even bother coming up with a Snappy nickname for a lie anymore
“Thieving Bastirts”
Is that Snappy enough?
Do you ever get the feeling we’re still being screwed?
First the Tories sell off “the family silver” during the 80’s, and now they are continuing to flog off any perceived loose fixtures & fittings, and insultingly, at bargain basement prices.
And you can be damn sure that a few ‘names’ with links to Osbourne will benefit out of the sale to the detriment of the ordinary tax payer. Remember the Post Office float?
I’m sick of this grasping, greedy, ‘crap-on-those-less-well-off’ attitude so prevalent within this alleged Union of benefit.
I’d like to hope that in a society that bangs on so much with “think of the children” that they’d actually take some beneficial steps that do work, and from the alleged benefits of the RBS sale, consider the children from the bottom of society, as well as the handicapped and poverty trap families.
But here’s today’s naïve question: perhaps someone can explain to me, because I’m really struggling to comprehend this…why in times of such alleged strain upon the government finances, and in this quest to pay off the ‘debt’ and reduce the deficit for alleged national benefit…why are we not increasing taxation on those better able to cope with increased share of the burden?
Why instead are we continuing to seek to screw those struggling at the bottom?
If this is really about being ‘in this altogether’, then why am I not feeling like I’m sharing the burden in any way like those in less fortunate circumstances?
Any takers?
I always thought ‘austerity’ was akin to treating brain cancer with leaches.
As the network of revolving doors that enable privileged access to both high public office and financial services is well mapped, is it any wonder our masters provide a ‘welfare state’ for themselves? Far-right neo-cons, Fabian socialists, they are all at ‘it’.
It’s all very well for us ‘the highly-informed electorate’ to discuss this, but when are the ‘no’ voters going to finally get it? (and how can we help speed up the process!) – That should be our main focus, not getting distracted by what we know to be nonsense.
The economic position of the UK is unsustainable and it’s been known (by some) for years. Extreme amounts of personal and collective debts are not a stable foundation for any economy, but the government (with a compliant media) are playing a game of smoke and mirrors worthy of The Wizard Of Oz.
It’s time for the other half of the country to ‘pay attention to that man behind the curtain’ as he’s got himself into a right fankle. He’s at the stage of contemplating jumping into a balloon and sailing off into the sunset, leaving the machinery to explode behind him.
Have I got this right? Tory Osborne sells RBS to his pals cheap, they hold onto for a couple of months while price of RBS shares rise, then in a couple of months they sell and the greedy b******ds get richer and the poor get poorer. Yip sounds just like old fashioned Tory Policies, reverse Robin Hood, rob the poor and pay the rich.
Auld Rock
OT. SNP have today tabled amendment to Scotland Bill asking for FFA? Have I got that right?
No need for confusion, Stu. It’s quite simple, really. The Tories are handing billions in taxpayers’ money to their pals in the City of London, they’re crucifying those same taxpayers to cover the cost, they’re celebrating the feat at a fat bastards’ beano at the Mansion House and the newspapers are lying through their rotten teeth to cover for them. All clear now?
Kezia Dugdale hammering away at Full Fiscal Autonomy. Why not give her a Gordon Brown answer when he imposed the five conditions as a precondition for joining the single currency.
FFA is good when the conditions are right and whoever said it was suicidal is also right if taken up when the conditions are wrong.
Grizzle McPuss
What I saw during those seven seasons of midnights at the Bank was a brutal social Darwinist selection of the Fittest to Rule, an adoration of military style masculinity, and above all a cult of ‘leadership’ as an inborn trait that is supposed to make those ‘leaders’ genetically superior to the rest of us – and justifies their sadistic treatment of ‘inferiors’. Reluctantly, and over time, I began to admit to myself that there is a word for this kind of ideology although it is rarely used in this context. A word that is big and frightening. Let me take you a little further inside the Bank before I dare to voice it.
link to opendemocracy.net
P.S. Remember that banks have long held control over many media outlets – e.g. HSBC and the Guardian.
Kezia Dugdale hammering away at Full Fiscal Autonomy. Why not give her a Gordon Brown answer when he imposed the five conditions as a precondition for joining the single currency.
FFA is good when the conditions are right and whoever said it was suicidal is also right if taken up when the conditions are wrong.
Exactly! George Kerevan’s comments are also worth noting in this respect:
link to thenational.scot
So, is this actually a good time to be taking up FFA?
I don’t think anyone should be under any illusion about the real purpose behind these austerity measures.
Which is to give the Tories the perfect excuse they need to create what they describe as smaller Government.
As our public services are Butchered and the welfare state dismantled, ordinary people will increasingly find they will have to pay higher charges for those services
or do without.
We have seen the same thing happen with prescription charges, right to buy and privatisation.
They’re selling everything off so that they’re corporate pals can squeeze even more profits from the “hard-working” people and “benefit scroungers” alike.
I’m going to take a wild guess and say that the economy is still in the shitter and the government and media are still trying their hand at turd polishing.
Just a guess mind, but I’d a turd is a turd no matter how hard you polish.
The Icelanders nailed it.
WE NEED INDY MEDIA – please Facebook and tweet these appeals
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The boom/bust in Iceland shows what happens to a country then a bunch of arctic cod fishermen decide they could be more rich and comfortable by trying their hands at international banking.
The handling of the bust in Iceland showed international bankers what happens when you try to strong-arm people who started out as arctic cod fishermen.
Some important lessons for Scotland there!
Good old BBC Scotland – while in the middle of FMQs somebody throws a switch and we are over to The Brillo Show for a couple of minutes and then back to Brian Taylor with his usual wrap-up and hand over to Brillo.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again why can’t we have at least a post mortem on FMQs and preferably a lead up program.
For PMQs we get lead-up coverage and discussion folowed by a 30 minute post mortem after PMQs.
Regarding Osbourne’s latest – thank God that Central Heating is now the norm. If it was like 50 years ago we would be in line for The 2015 Children Up Chimneys Act.
R type grunt.
No voter here, on 3G. I am happy with the no vote, disappointed that we have a Tory government. Re RBS, I think it is good that it is denationalised, I believe that this will be done on tranches and starting this process will increase market confidence in the financial services sector, a major employer in Scotland. It is impossible to accurately predict the outcome of this process currently. Re institutional investors, hopefully the pension pots that took the hit of the financial crisis will be strengthened, having a minor positive impact on the challenge re pensions when we have an aging population in a period of historically low interest rates.
Nuada:
Hats off for that wonderfully concise summary. If there was a LIKE button, I’d have used it.
Socialism for the rich. One way of getting through another day in teamGB kleptomaniac world is that the City is in effect a giant pension fund or several pension funds worth trillions. If the plebs act up, kettling, water cannon, riots cops on overtime and spooks online surveillance laws beefed up.
Rancid The Guardian says UK house prices ‘will rise 25% in next five years.’ They mean England and middle England and this all that really matters.
A good time for FFA?
It was in our manifesto, do you think it’s wise to pass up a chance to have it included?
It won’t pass anyway, but the fact there would be a deficit, is not a valid argument as FFA would change the very nature of the union, if they allowed it, some sort of borrowing scheme could be operated, it’s pie in the sky stuff of course, but it’s not quite as simple as ‘oh we would have a deficit, so it’s bad’
Don’t fall for the unionist schtick.
It’s a deficit based on WM policies and that could be reduced if we had tax powers as well.
Auld Rock, you have it done to right, Government Pals getting their hands on money the easy way.
rongorongo, the most important thing for Scotland to remember is that if you stay in the UK they will rob the country blind. The next thing is stopping selling yourself and your country short.
Thirdly get off the knees it is better to die on your feet with pride and dignity.
Classic BBC Scotland: leads with fall in oil revenue immediately followed by SNP’s plans for FFA.
P.P.S. In 1915, J.P. Morgan bought 25 national and regional papers in the USA, such as the New York Times, so as to control the media environment (a basic requirement of “thought reform”).
Two bankers in Iceland were over-borrowing on London Lending markets. Buying up Debenhams etc. When the crash came the shares fell and the borrowing could not be paid off. One was put in jail. The other was protected in Chelsea by the London financial sector. People in Iceland did suffer their mortgages increased. The regulators were giving the Iclandic Banks triple A status. Some US academics actually changed the titles of their economic reports after the crash. ‘Inside Job’
Edinburgh has always had a strong financial sector. Aberdeen Asset Management is one of the largest investment funds in Europe.
First wave of shares will be offered to large corporations….just like the royal mail shares, when Osborne’s best man made a fortune buying a shedload on the cheap then turning them over a week later.
Can no-one in msm point out the basic uk system? The poorest are demonised in the press and reality tv, to distract the masses, so there will be no outcry when their benefits are reduced, so that rich politicians can let big business off without paying taxes, Cameron, Osborne, et al will get their rewards after wm, just like Blair and Brown.
I don’t believe for a minute that there isn’t a massive uk-wide protest brewing under this austerity sham. Civil disobedience can’t be far away, and watch for tory shocked faces. No doubt the SNP will get the blame!
gus 1940
Why you still watch FMQs on the BBC is beyond me..!
Isn’t it better to watch on the Scot. Parliament site and then afterwards move to the beeb so that you can then see the spin an’ deflect crap?
O/T
@ Calgacus says at 11:37 am
”I guess austerity is necessary in order to fund Trident or maybe it’s just to keep the proles in their rightful place at the bottom of the Corpocrat ladder.”
I spoke to an ‘official’ last year and asked if nuclear radiation research had been carried out with regard to the inordinately high number of cancer related deaths in Helensburgh and Dunoon. I was told no because they reckoned that the statistics related to the fact that many elderly people retired to H & D.
Trawsfynydd and cancer: nuclear power kills
link to theecologist.org
Shares were diluted over the years; hence why 342p sell etc is a profit over 500p buy price. Many PLC’s will restructure their share capital over time to make best use of the market
RBS last diluted their shares in June 2012, see link to bbc.co.uk
@gfaetheblock,
Aye cheers Mr.NO voter for another ten years of Tory raping of Scotland’s wealth.
Thanks for enabling the liars, cheats and thieves.
Thanks for attempting to extinguish Scotland.
my mistake: RBS did the opposite in June 2012, they did a consolidation. i.e. the opposite of a dilution. It’s even worse than GH Grahame suggests above.
Talking of muddles but somewhat O/T here is Mark Mardell effectively demolishing Cameron (for his “muddling”) and the Tories (for their self-destruct tendencies over Europe):
link to bbc.co.uk
Well worth a quick read.
I wish we could start a Crowdfunder to raise 7.6 billion. and then tell these Barstewards to get to f ck.
The media review feature at the end of Beattie’s Thursday show is always good, but it’s rarely longer than 15 minutes or so, usually less. Cosgrove and O’Neill make a good double act.
Is there any appetite for pushing BBC Scotland to give them a ‘proper’ show? Not sure how best it could be done, or what the wording on a petition might involve (or indeed, if the men would even be interested – if not, there are plenty of others who would surely do as good a job. Remember the Glasgow professor, young guy, who did that major survey of all the pre-referendum tabloids? Forget his name…)
If there’s ever to be a means of broaching the PQ garrison with some pro-indy voices and suitably serious discussion, that kind of programme could act as a way-in. You never do know – one day they might even invite Rev in for a chat and actually give him the space and time to explain what we’re all about.
Any thoughts?
I think the cuts are more to do with the losses associated with quantative easing than any potential profit or loss on bank asset purchased at the time of the financial crisis. .
So some foreigners have done a better job sorting out their economy than the Imperial Majestic United Kingdom?
Get that right up ye Daily Mail.
Link to Scottish Parliament TV. Live and Archived.
First Minister’s Questions etc.
Spares folk the pain of BBC in Scotland
link to scottishparliament.tv
@gfaetheblock, 12:45
You forgot to mention big Gordies relaxing of the banking controls and the £100billion theft of pension fund assets, O and saving the world. The end of boom and bust not forgetting the vow. Aye whit a man.
It’s now the tollies turn to fleece the hard working people and consign the poor to begging and abject poverty.
Is this a democratic capitalist world? If it is I don’t want anything to do with it!
Right Wing ideologically driven cuts and asset stripping by a Government that we did not vote into power.
Scotland really is in a terrible position economically & politically.
Feeling the September 19th burn today.
Thanks to heedtracker for bringing up the blatant bias in news between what is offered in Scotland and England.
For English readers:
“North Sea oil rebound fuels UK GDP growth”
“A rebound in North Sea oil production in the three months to May helped the UK double its growth rate to 0.6% from the first quarter of the year, handing the Treasury a much-needed boost.
According to the National Institute for Economic & Social Research (NIESR), output improved on the 0.5% in the three months to April and soared above the meagre 0.3% seen in the first three months of the year.”
For Scottish readers:
“North Sea oil price slump puts industry confidence at an all-time low”
“Two-thirds of North Sea oil and gas industry operators have been forced to cancel projects because of the recent fall in the oil price, according to a survey.
Confidence was found to be at an “all-time” low in the sector and activity levels were down in line with the declining oil price, which has fallen below $50 per barrel this year before staging a modest recovery.”
Both of the above are from the “left-leaning” fair, impartial and unbiased Guardian… ROFL!
For Scotland: deliver only negative and bad news. Scotland BAD!
For England: deliver only positive and good news. England GOOD!
What an utter farce. Better together…? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
I’m impressed that the SNP have tabled a FFA amendment to the Scotland Bill. The griping Labour and Tory MPs can put their money where their mouths are and back it or haud their wheesht.
No voter here, on 3G. I am happy with the no vote, disappointed that we have a Tory government.
Better get used to it. At least 10 years Of Tory majority rule ahead, possibly more – unless people like you realise the only escape now is to pray for another referendum soon and vote YES next time.
There is no other way. Not now.
@gfaetheblock
“I am happy with the no vote.”
Awww, that’s nice. Good for you!
“disappointed that we have a Tory government”
Maybe you’re a Labour supporter, or Lib Dem, or even a UKIP supporter, who knows, but no matter you’re all Unionists. So, then, why would you be disappointed in whichever Unionist party forms the UK government? Same team, different jerseys, and all that.
Dal Riata says:
“@gfaetheblock
Maybe you’re a Labour supporter, or Lib Dem, or even a UKIP supporter, who knows, but no matter you’re all Unionists. So, then, why would you be disappointed in whichever Unionist party forms the UK government? Same team, different jerseys, and all that”
Someone else, not myself, cleverly put it before the election …. The four flavours of Unionism …
Tory Max, Tory Original, Tory Lite, and, I can’t believe it’s not Tory
@CameronB Brodie 12:25pm
Thanks for the article link.
It doesn’t really lift my mood, just enforces the stereotype of all that is foreign to the real world that you and I live in.
The proto-fascism alluded to in the article is very much alive and kicking, and its influence embraced by many of those decision makers governing over our lives.
Nothing new though, merely a metamorphosis from the old public school attitudes that used to dominate the outdated class system.
@gfaetheblock
So glad you’re happy
now why don’t you f@@k off
There’s a good chap
It is a hard time to be a centrist unionist, but having governments that we didn’t vote for is one of the costs of democracy.
I think that there is clear differences in the unionist parties, as did the SNP who had very different positions on a Tory or labour coalition. It would be odd to say that all yes parties were same, just because they had a shared platform.
@gfaetheblock
Centrist Unionist Not Tory C.U.N.T.now Fuck Off
And here we have @gfaetheblock…a bloke that lives his life with his head trapped inside a wet paper bag.
Just to pick you up on one of the easier faux pas that you make…
“…one of the costs of democrarcy”
Not Scottish democracy matey, but what is decided by the electorate of England.
To me that is more living the diktat of another country’s democracy, completely ignoring the mood & aspirations of the country that I live in.
The Mansion House dinner is attended by many of those who advise and direct George Osborne on a constant basis. His speech is for public consumption, was written for him, and contains nothing that can be relied upon.
RBS is to be sold because it suits the City.
The City runs the UK – mostly in secret.
Austerity is an economic theory used by the Tories as a scam, designed to persuade the mass of the UK population to accept cuts to benefits and services, while the rich get richer as a result.
Soon, the remainder of UK assets will have been transfered into private hands, and the financial rape of Brittania will be complete, leaving the victim scarred for life.
The Tories never had it so good – thank you Labour, and thank you the 24% of the electorate who voted Tory in GE15, and thank you those who voted No in IndyRef.
Be wise – always vote SNP.
Independence? Add patience to your vote – it will make you stronger. Indy will come, as sure as a running tap will fill a basin. The political tap is running – have no doubt.
gfaetheblock
It is a hard time to be a centrist unionist, but having governments that we didn’t vote for is one of the costs of democracy.
With 59 Scottish MPs out of 650 (mainly English) MPs sitting in the HoC, how good a chance do you think Scotland has of getting the government it votes for? I’ll take it the concept of “democratic deficit” is news to you?
I like your thinking Michael McCabe…
Like everything else this government does, austerity has to be understood in terms of politics, not economics. They have always been about the small state. The original cover was to be “The Big Society” ( remember that?) The recession provided the convenient peg of austerity on which to hang their ideology, thus negating the need for their previous, somewhat woolly justification. In real terms, The excecrable Osborne is not above spending on the sly to head off political problems.
Surely Osborne’s selling off RBSCheap so that the city can make a killing …….