The invisible and the visible
The abusive Facebook comments recently directed at Labour MP Margaret Curran and highlighted in a piece on the STV website today make us sigh. Not only are they horrible but they’re counter-productive, in every sense of the term – they’re not going to change Curran’s mind about anything by yelling at her, and they feed a narrative about “vile cybernats” that the media is all too eager to gleefully perpetuate.
So let’s make something clear from the off: shut up, idiots. You’re not helping.
But then let’s tell the rest of the story.
And we’re not talking whataboutery. Sure, anyone with two minutes on their hands can find not only hundreds of comments on Facebook every bit as disgusting aimed at Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, but entire pages solely and expressly set up for abusing them. Those pages don’t tend to be the subject of hand-wringing media exposés, though occasionally there’ll be a grudging paragraph in a shock-horror piece about some mad zoomer that says “Oh, SNP figures sometimes get hatemail too”.
But that’s not the point. Stick your head above the parapet at all in the social-media age and you’re in for a torrent of vitriol. Our own Twitter block-list is 1500 strong and growing every day. It comes with the territory, and if anyone should be used to being abused it’s politicians – they do it to each other every day for a living, after all. At the end of the day, as an old games-journalism colleague and I used to say to each other after wading through some more bilious “fan mail”, it’s just words on the internet.
But that’s not the point either.
As a rule, people don’t wake up in a rage. Things make them angry, and when those things go unchallenged, when nobody speaks for them, when nobody puts their point of view or gives them a right of reply or makes those responsible answer for what they’ve said and done, that anger has nowhere to go and it heats up and boils over.
Margaret Curran spent much of the last three years insulting half the population of Scotland and telling lies. Not arguing her case, not putting a contentious but honest point of view, but telling flat-out, provable, empirical lies. She, along with many of her colleagues, knowingly and deliberately spread baseless scare stories, frightening the vulnerable. They used appalling, inflammatory, racist language.
And the media ignored it. No paper ran a piece questioning the numerous grotesque “foreigner” slurs. Not one of the publications who’d covered Gordon Brown’s NHS lie reported the strongly-worded rebuttal from NHS Blood And Transplants the next day. But they ran pages by the truckload, week after week and month after month, vilifying terrible “cybernats” who’d said, in the main, spectacularly innocuous things.
(Or even, in the case of Susan Calman, when nobody had said anything at all.)
Guess what? People get angry about that, especially when it happens day after day after day in every newspaper in the country and on every TV and radio station, for years on end. If you kick even the mildest-mannered dog over and over and over again, eventually it’ll snarl and bark angrily at you.
Anger is a legitimate emotion. Sometimes it’s the only fair and rational response. And not everyone who’s angry has the ability to express it in articulate, measured, biting witticisms that would delight Oscar Wilde. Sometimes it’s raw and red in tooth and claw, unsightly and unnerving. But it’s still just words on the internet.
Politicians are enormously privileged. They have a whole series of platforms for their views that are denied to normal people. Everyone shrugs their shoulders at the fact that Scotland’s media is overwhelmingly politically one-sided, citing freedom of expression, and that’s all well and good and true, but freedom of expression cuts both ways, even when that expression lacks eloquence or literary merit.
Of the 33 comments in the STV piece, there’s one which could – at a stretch – be interpreted as threatening. That person could have no grounds for complaint if they were to get a knock at the door from the police and be asked a few questions. Once again, we reiterate that we absolutely and unequivocally condemn such comments.
But even as with one voice the Scottish media wails in never-ending outrage about the terrible and outrageous impediment to free speech that is the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act, demanding the right for neds to sing menacingly and en masse in public about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, it piously throws up its hands in horror when someone calls a lying, provocative MP a “cowbag” or suggests in blunt and harsh terms that she might not be value for her lavish salary and expenses.
The hypocrisy is tedious.
To be fair. She is a frothing anus.
Sadly we just don’t know how many of these comments were made by genuine “nats” and which were made by those masquerading as nats, and we never will.
My guess is this facebook page was a McTernan set up to deliberately attract rabid comment. They’re looking for the sympathy vote, please don’t oblige.
Amen.
Outstanding piece Rev! I read that piece of ‘journalism’ on the STV website with sheer dismay. The utter contempt they have for ‘proles’ expressing an opinion is beyond the pale.
What adjective would they prefer before ‘liar’ I wonder.
“Sadly we just don’t know how many of these comments were made by genuine “nats” and which were made by those masquerading as nats, and we never will.”
False-flag paranoia doesn’t help either, to be honest. Let’s face up to the fact that at least MOST of these comments are real, certainly if they’re on Facebook where they’re attached to real names and can be much more easily checked.
Why is it that these people do not realise the potential for damage within these nasty comments.? People like Magrit are just waiting for the opportunity to point the finger and say “poor me, attacked again by those vile cyber nats” Her ‘colleague in arms’, creepy Jim, grabs on in exactly the same fashion and holds himself up as some sort of much maligned plaster saint ,while the media backs him up. Didn’t we learn run a negative campaign and let us respond to their negativity with reasoned and responsible comments, not with this ridiculous self destructive bile!
Well played, Rev. I really hope the idiots do shut up, and work out their anger in smarter ways, like pounding the streets for a pro Indy party, preferably the SNP. Don’t give Unionists ammunition, folks! Play smarter on the internet, making a valid point using evidence hurts a lot more, and we have plenty evidence!
Spot on. I had a quick look at her FB page just to see the type of thing that was there, and the first thing that stood out (from her posts) was the sheer dishonesty that she indulges in. Some of the comments may be indefensible but when you lie as mush as what Curran does you can understand where the anger comes from.
Well put. It doesn’t help our side and if we want to make things better, we need to be better. The change comes from within!
I’m angry, for all the reasons you suggest and more. And that anger is justified. I’m also a voter, and as a voter I have an absolute right to demonstrate that anger by not voting for the politicians who provoked it. I also have an absolute right to think and say whatever the hell I like about those politicians – I have free speech as well.
But you’re right: it is entirely counter-productive to send that abuse to politicians personally. I had one instance last year though where I engaged with my own local MP on an issue unrelated to the referendum and – I presume because of the Yes badge – he launched a tirade of unprovoked abuse against me. That, to my mind, is 100 million times worse than a voter mouthing off at a politician. And there is no fucking way on this earth either he or his party will ever be getting my vote back. And yes, my opinions of both are unprintable. That anger is more than justified, and won’t be going away anytime soon.
Well said.
“If passion is what drives you, let reason hold the reins.”
It was ever thus.
When it comes to the MSM in Scotland Labour and their politicians will always be untouchable and unchallenged. The result of decades of political stasis and corruption. It’s more a unquestioning, mindless cult than a party.
As we know there will be an awful lot
more of this shite in the weeks ahead, Be Aware.
It’s a bit like footballers who get dogs abuse from total strangers but are expected to suck it up, it is wrong on all sides but when the red mist descends then the odd wee fuck off Magrit can surely be excused.
It’s the same old story. Salmond, Sturgeon, Sillars all got actual death threats, but they went unreported. Some zoomers post a few nasty messages on a Labour MP’s Facebook, and the press scream “VILE CYBERNATS!”.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been outraged by the sewer of bile, hate and personal attacks that emanate from the likes of Ian Smart and Jill Stephenson and their accolytes, but they all go completely unreported in the MSM.
I supported a local Yes page on FB for a long time before the Referendum. This in an area where Yes was not doing too well. The page built up quite nicely but afterwards it lost quite a few members who were replaced by some of the most horrible trolls I’ve ever encountered. Sadly, their political comments consisted of insulting anyone who wasn’t an SNP supporter. I took exception to personal comments made about Alistair Carmichael who is a friend of mine and would be whatever his politics. In a flash, the trolls set about me. I still follow the page (it offers very good information thanks to its excellent admin people) but I don’t comment. There’s a job to be done to persuade people that politics is about targeting the ideas of opponents.
As they say in Sicily – “Revenge is a dish best served cold”
Labour old hands care about their expenses and passage to future income sources including the House of Lords. Deny them this “right” by simply putting a cross against the SNP candidates name.
Don’t get mad, get even.
@ Rev Stu Hardly false flag and certainly not paranoid nor condoning abuse. Simply checking the FB pages doesn’t give proof of anything except that a FB page exists, it may be authentic equally may not “sadly” as I said.
Unfortunately, not that many will read this & take heed. But after 3 years of it as you say it’s understandable. People can only take so much & for many May 7th can’t come quickly enough.
You can also say that by continually posting her lies Margaret is being provocative i.e baiting people to respond just as Jim Murphy did outside the hotel in Glasgow when he was quite definitely provoking the demonstrators to respond safe in the knowledge that the police would protect him.
Well said.
The media love to push the ‘cybernats’ story and Labour likes to feed them.
Ms Curran’s site was and is an obvious magnet for such comments BUT characterising all such comments as being from cybernats is ridiculous given the anonymity afforded by the Internet. The comments are just as likely to come from some prepubescent, plook-ridden plonker sitting in a bedroom somewhere than from a supporter of the SNP. Or from a mischief making unionist.
A well thought out article. It is unavoidable to become angry with certain people and organisations but we must try not to take the bait.
Keep exposing their lies, fight them with facts and logic.
Most importantly vote SNP on May 7th, that will hurt them the most!
Yeah, there’s really no point in swearing at people, for the reasons you outline. But it’s understandable that people feel angry at the same time. People are more aware than ever before that they are being fibbed to and, by denying it, the likes of Curran are effectively claiming it is the electorate that are the liars. The media backs this up and claims that it is the people who are wrong, because the media ‘know better’ (or are circling the wagons as trust in them flounders, more like). This situation is intensely frustrating, so I can see why people lose it a bit, but it damages their cause in the end.
Though he at least didn’t name the people involved and blanked them out, I noticed that Daisley himself couldn’t resist hurling digs on a couple of occasions (in response to some poor comments, it has to be said, but still).
I remember when Newsnet first started you had people jumping into the comments screaming this sort of abuse.
Luckily there was a community that included many older more experienced sages who would calmly and politely put a gentle hand on their shoulder and explain that this isn’t the right way to conduct yourself when trying to get a point across.
I was one of these frothing nutters,angry and ineloquent,who was moderated by the prevailing mood of the group.
Unfortunately with the expansion of our alternative media these moderating voices are spread thinly now and all it takes is for the mood to turn nasty and for others to take it as a sign to join in.
It damages the debate,the flow and refinement of information and reflects badly on us all.
It used to be that someone would pooint something out,someone would add to it from their own expertise and knowledge and others would join in polishing this little gem into a sparkling beacon that we could all utilise in furthering the cause.
In the case of Facebook i think it may be next to impossible to do anything about.
Maybe we should try “love bombing” with lots of XX’s, hugs and fluffy bunnies.
Cantcha jus feeel the lurve…
I was having a chin wag with a friend who called Magrit a “c*nt”. He also called her a “b*tch”, a “c*w” and a “manky auld w*tch”. Naturally i was shocked and sickened at such abuse being directed at one of our nations elected representatives. Its just awful to hear that kind of language. I said to him that he was bang out of order calling her those things but he just responded that he “canny wait fur that dirty auld troughing mouth like a dugs a*se lying tr*itorous p*ss taking c*nting auld b*start to be oot a joab come May, that’ll b*stirt well teach the wrinkly auld sk*nk!”
I… was… horrified…
When you have been a “vile brown shirted nazi virus who needs bayonetted”, and have nobody defend you, or likely to do so, biting back hard is almost inevitable.
Lets be honest, if not one person on the Yes/SNP side abused a single unionist, the media would print a lie and who would challenge that lie?
Many of us had abuse, both fair and nasty during the campaign. I for one was not paid during the campaign and did not receive expenses or wages for any of my campaigning.
Dry yer eyes if you did.
Brotherhood, comradeship, the Red Flag.
How is Jo Lamont doing these days Ms Curran? Since you are NOW such a sensitive, lady.
“Simply checking the FB pages doesn’t give proof of anything except that a FB page exists”
You can look back at the commenter’s page and see how long it’s been there and what sort of stuff they say. If it’s been up for two days and has nothing but abuse of Alex Salmond, maybe be suspicious. If it’s been there for 10 years and is full of Nat stuff, it’s JUST POSSIBLE that it’s not a John McTernan scam.
‘I remember when Newsnet first started you had people jumping into the comments screaming this sort of abuse.”
I’ll be doing it to you if you DON’T PUT PROPER FUCKING PARAGRAPH BREAKS IN YOUR COMMENTS, pal.
Thanks for posting this Stuart. Excellent summation of the issue.
I began to tweet a reply to Daisley and Curran essentially saying that the abuse was vile and stupid and impossible for a reasonable person to condone but also to try and say that for some social media is their only effective way to genuinely call out lies etc and so often a politician is fair game and has to appreciate people’s frustration. Needless to say 140 characters is useless to get that kind of message across and can never say it as well as you do here.
I hope this gets widely shared and some people realise the harm it does and how ultimately it turns people off the nationalist cause. We have to be better, we have the arguments anyway and so don’t have to result to this.
This is all beginning to sound like a rerun of the referendum. The unionists spent most of their time trawling for insulting or so called cyber nat abusers.Its just so predictable and so lame as a strategy.
The strategy is now to trash the Scottish NHS, The Scottish Police and the Education system. Every public body in Scotland is in crisis,according to the Record and the BBC. The Heralds Kate Devlin even went with the headline, Sturgeon plans to destroy the UK economy.
What we have now is the SNP as the official opposition to the unionist alliance and media. Its not reporting news by the media. They are giving opinion and selecting stories to suit the Labour agenda.
Yet despite all of this the SNP are running at 50% in the polls! If people and public bodies were in crisis. Why are people intending on voting SNP. Can the BBC explain why Labour and the Tories are both minority party’s in Scotland?
Even when I am angry I try to be a gentleman. That is what separates those who get listened to from those who don’t and those who get us all branded as cybernasties and those who at least get our arguments taken seriously if even for a moment. Think about it. The cause does not need to be branded or defined by those who abuse. We are trying to win an election here. Take your crap to the football match and get abused in return.
Nice to see Wings regulars being polite on the page and by use of humour encouraging others to behave.
There is only one way to deal with members of other parties.
Rather than fall into the media trap (where they are desperately hoping for online / media abuse etc).
Take a deep breath rise above any ill feelings you have and vote for the party that truly stands for Scotland.
If this happens to be a labour inside job, ie Mcternan etc
Shame on them.
Rise above it, we won’t get fooled again.
Gary
The hypocrisy is tedious and very British too. Scotland running Scotland enrages some, but its going to happen eventually.
Sorry man,is that when you hit return twice?
@ Martin D –
Are you forgetting half of the population dearest?
@Soda –
Is your friend called Steven Seagull? 😀
Its deja vu all over again with STV and the rest of the British media.
They will give max amplification to any minor indiscretions from anyone associated with the opposition to their Establishment clique and circulate it around the MSM fraternity for maximum effect.
That is why this article is so valuable and should be widely shared to help deny them this cheap ammo.
Not trying to sound all educated here (just looked for something meaningful about hate and came up with something by Kierkegaard!)
Showing that they don’t care about me, or caring that I should know they don’t care about me, still denotes dependence… They show me respect precisely by showing me that they don’t respect me.
That is, for me, a consequence of allowing yourself to hate someone like Curran, but I agree with Rev Stuart that the powerlessness and frustration people feel when the deck is so heavily stacked against them is hard to take philosophically.
Btw, on another subject, for those that have been talking about Outlander, I was wondering what all the fuss was about it stoking up anti British sentiment until I got to episode 6. I doubt that episode will see British TV screens before the election. I’ve been watching it online in Russian as can’t find it in English. I recommend the series and my wife loves it.
We prided ourselves, rightly? on being a grassroots movement. The internet gives equal voice to all, and some of these voices are the voices of the grass roots.
They are not polished, scripted lies springing from the collective mind of a pr team. They are the voices of angry, betrayed people who are using the same language that they use at the football, in the pub, in the staff canteen over a cup of tea and the daily redtop. 85% of the population became involved in a political decision and those same 85% are still awake.
Be more angry at those who do have a McTernan or a McDougal filling their mouths with more glib lies. They really should know better.
Those comments are completely unacceptable – the guy needs help. Unfortunately, 1 in 4 people are affected by mental health issues, with that in mind it’s surprising we don’t see more evidence of the malady on social media. Although it can manifest itself more directly by making people join Ukip and stuff like that. It can make you hide in your office from peaceful protesters and demand a police escort outta town.
Media shocked, shocked I say, that regular people use swearwords in normal conversation.
Have they been informed that the Blessed Jim Murphy once told SNP MP Pete Wishart to “Fuck off fuck off fuck off”?
link to order-order.com
It’s in the Sun so it must be true! link to thesun.co.uk
Murphy also swore at Tory MP and Pob lookalike Michael Gove:
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
My oh my. Whatever happened to “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me”?
I will never really defend any Sweary words , especially written , inc those on here .
That said “FFS etc ” are used by myself and others to accentuate our feeling usually out of deep frustration . MC certainly courts our patience by her perpetual in-exactitudes !
As a man o the cloth ” cough ” (courtesy of LA) I too find it very dissapointing that FB and Twatter has a fair amount of expletives !
Winning a debate / arguement should be expressed by the points not the language .
Well done to the 99% on here who always make fantastic points very well indeed .
OT Nicola on QT next week , set the recorders .
Wholeheartedly agree. I would love to know what on earth the people hurling abuse at Curran are hoping to achieve, other than use her as a focus for their frustrations in life.
I should say I enjoy a good old hoof in the nuts insult as much as anyone but a bit of wit and style wouldn’t go amiss. If those badgering Curran really wished to rip her knitting they could assist with the general election campaign and help get someone better get elected. I make no claims of expertise but I would suggest that real campaigning is generally more effective in getting an MP the boot than typing UR A QUISLING TRAITOR AND A LAIR!!!!OMG RED TORY!!!into Facebook every hour on the hour. It may be for the best if these individuals are given some stapling or paper folding to do as I’m not sure they have the appropriate skills for canvassing: “Are you voting SNP, madam or shall I put you down as a ("Quizmaster" - Ed)?”.
Ultimately Mags can take comfort from this being some twats on the internet. I’m still paying for the damage done to my close door when it was kicked in by unionist thugs who decided to vandalise my close and the front door to my flat because I’d had the effrontery to display a Yes flag in my window. I’m still angry at a car full of unionists pull up beside me as I was crossing the road to sing the Famine Song and call me scum and an IRA cow because I was wearing a Yes badge. If you’ve ever wondered how many unionist men it takes to intimidate a lone female walking home at 11pm: the answer is three.
I’m just an obscure member of the public so I can hardly expect headlines and mass grief when I’m abused or treated badly but it really would be appreciated if certain politicians, for example Margaret Curran, put as much energy into avoiding inflammatory language and condemning the actions of their own nutters as they do into overreacting to twats on the internet. She could even go wild and reflect on why it might not be in the interests of public safety to demonise the entire Yes movement. Because from where I’m sitting, having to block a few fuckwits on social media looks a hell of a lot more attractive than paying for other peoples criminal damage and fearing a kicking.
@ Paula Rose
No my dear I am not forgetting half the population.
Speaking for my self when I refer to acting like a gentleman.
No disrespect intended whatsoever to the other half. 🙂
hit them in the ballot box, where it hurts.
Remember we can never know if these abusers are genuine, or part of team Mcternan.The strategy is to find a few nutters and then tar every SNP voter as a cybernat.
Best action is to ignore the strategy. I think the SNP worked that out some time ago. It’s a tired and worn out strategy. Mcternan is proving to be a one trick pony.
We have had Gordon Browned trolleyed out already.He has advised Labour to trash the NHS at every chance. Then it’s the old defame the opposition strategy with cybernats.
I used to get angry about it. Now I just laugh at the ridiculousness of Mcternan. The guy is just so predictable.
No such thing as vile cyber Britnats though eh mags? I disagree Stu, this harridan deserves every expletive invented.
Odd that the media never had a problem with the abuse Salmond and Sturgeon took and indeed take now.
Or indeed the abuse that Stu takes.
I checked the page and found the comments quite visceral and full of anger. I also found they chimed with exactly the way that many in Mrs Currans constituency would talk to you if they were annoyed at your behaviour.
Having worked in the East End of Glasgow for many years I became used to this form of expression,as I am quite sure Mrs Curran has. Unhappy Glaswegians do not hold back and are no respectors of person or language when angry.Undoubtedly Mrs Curran will be the recipient of further abuse whether we approve or not.
Absolutely raging we didn’t get a mention. Really need to step it up a bit now.
“I disagree Stu, this harridan deserves every expletive invented.”
I didn’t say she didn’t. I said it didn’t help.
@ Danny 9:57 pm
I read that totally wrong and nearly wet myself
Words are words.Giving her a P45 is better than any angry insult!
Tis a pity the lady (Margaret Curran) is a *****.
Whats the problem? Just looks like Johann Lamont wanted to get a few things off her chest.
Unfortunately in this day and age of mass communications and access, people who have undiagnosed mental issues will pop off at others they don’t like in the belief that they can’t be reached themselves, some are on our side as well as being die-hard BritNats.
But once again our esteemed MSM will always favour the unionist angle and go down the evil cybernat route to keep McTernan and chums happy while ignoring the vast amount of online abuse from extreme-rightwing BritNat groups and individuals on the web.
I think the BritNatAbuseBot on twitter picked up something like 6500+ utterly vile tweets from ‘proud Scots and British’ unionists in the closing months of the indyref campaign, and that was only the tip of the iceberg according to the person behind the monitoring. Only Iain MacWhirter actually reported about it.
There is a sombre final message left behind that’s worth viewing that mentions politicians and journalists were made aware of this monitoring and the account is still open for those who want to view the evidence.
link to twitter.com
Labour are in so much trouble because they have forgotten what they stood for and who they represent. They must know this.
They cannot be so stupid as to think that the problem is everyone elses, in terms of how the party is perceived.
If they do, then Hell mend them. They are the embodiment of car crash socialism, started by Blair – finished by Miliband.
Sturgeon’s call for fair dealing, social cohesion, sensible spending – delivered with the confidence of a highly skilled communicator – leaves her Labour colleagues looking at best amateurish, and the worst of them….well, they’ll soon be looking for new jobs.
Very good article, which nails multiple problems.
Unionist MP’s, especially those from Labour are immune to challenge by ANY of the ‘scottish’ so-called media. During the long referendum campaign, lie after lie, after lie was told over and over again by Labour and unionists (despite clear evidence proving them to be lies), often amplified by the pro Unionist propagandist BBC, and so-called ‘news’papers.
You nail it on the head when you point out, that when such lying unionist Labour MP’s cannot or rather WILL not be held to account for telling baseless lies and generally making things up, then rightly people will get angry. Not every person, as you rightly point out, has the written or verbal skills to make witty but biting comments, and so we see what we see on twitter/social media.
People do need to control what they say, but you know the REAL problem is we now live in a Scotland with a mainstream media that is happy to promote daily bare faced clear lies and dishonesty from Labour, no matter what, no matter how absurd. It is enough to make even a saint’s blood boil. Oh, and the worst media culprit by a very large margin is the English propagandist broadcaster, aka’the BBC’.
The people of Scotland are right to be angry at Labour’s lies, and the media promoting them. They should be absolutely furious with the lying, deceptive BBC.
The diseased MSM have a sickening bias, that much we all agree on. If there was half the abuse or twice the abuse they would still print the same amount of biased nonsense.
So as Morrissey would say “What difference does it make?”
Slightly O T
On line abuse heading , reminds me of our misguided Claire Lally , remember the fuss .
My personal email has recently been getting the emails from a flipping Singles Date site , with pics of women looking for me ! LOL
Guess who’s coupon was in the email last week …… Yip the very same , peer lonely soul .
In the words o Chubby Brown. ” I thought it was F@@@@@@@g funny anyway ! ”
Sorry I must learn to archive sometime soon .
Free speech aye, defend my right to say it aye, I am Charlie Hebdo aye, The pen is mightier than the sword aye,
I am important, I have position, I have money, I am bigger
I can say what i want but you plebs can’t Aye
Betsy
Angered to hear of the intimidation you suffered.
Both camps have their miscreants and the unionist side undoubtedly have a significant latent paramilitary element who can rear their ugly heads when emboldened.
Keep your chin up.
I saw she had set a no swearing rule on her Facebook page and I left without comment. I have seen that done on various blogs and sites (admittedly mostly not political sites) and it has never ended well. I didn’t anticipate it being any different on Magrit’s page.
Any verbal abuse ought to be condemned right away. It is very important for SNP activists and candidates in particular to keep the heid during the next three months. Traps will be set and any careless words and deeds will be exploited savagely.
I am concerned that when the red tories hit the streets during the campaign, they will feel the wrath of ordinary citizens. It’s what they deserve, but Murphy and Curran will be sure to exploit any incidents for their advantage.
The best way is to hit them where it really hurts – in the ballot box. For a red tory, and SNP gain is like a hard kick in the balls.
Keep the heid, folks.
I’ve been reading her facebook page for days. Some of the comments are a bit over the top, but then you’ve covered it pretty well, these people are ANGRY.
What has struck me is that some of the most vitriolic are clearly former Labour voters. That would certainly explain the anger, though may not fit the MSM narrative of abusive cybernats.
It’s hard too feel sorry for her, because frankly she deserves a lot worse. If she were run over by a bus, I’d certainly want to know who was driving so I could by them a pint.
This is what tends to happen when people feel powerless, when they feel like there is nothing they can do to address an injustice: they lash out. And it’s very hard to blame them, even if it is counter-productive and unhelpful. Yet at the same time, isn’t it next to miraculous that it’s JUST been words on the internet, an egg at the very worst?
People must wonder: why has there been no real violence from Scottish nationalists during the campaign? Some would say it’s because of civic nationalism, that it’s different from the ethnic nationalism of the past, and so isn’t inherently violent. I think it’s something else: hope.
Even though it was obvious the referendum was rigged from the start (if not in terms of actual vote rigging, then certainly in terms of media bias, expenditure and clout), “enough of us remain alive.” The SNP are the biggest political party in Scotland, and the third biggest in the UK. The idea of Scottish independence has been normalised in a way it hasn’t been for centuries – it’s no longer a crazy, implausible idea shared by fringe loons. And now we find as much as 45% of those who voted are in favour. When people feel validated by community and a sense that they are NOT crazy, then they aren’t radicalised to the extent of violence.
This is why I feel “the 45” is so important as a symbol. It shows that despite everything the British Establishment threw at us, despite the leaders of other nations interfering, despite the wealth of billionaires and retail giants and media moguls, 45% of those who voted still voted Yes. Despite Chris Cairns’ heartbreaking cartoon, hope was not snuffed out forever.
I greatly dislike some of the language used against politicians, be it gendered language against the likes of Ms Curran or Lamont (“witch,” “harridan,” etc), or comments about their weight/appearance/whatever (overweight “troughers,” Jim Murphy as “skeletor”). But I hate what those politicians have done to those they were elected to represent far more than that.
STV are going through one of their “Save the Union” phases.
They pushed this story, along with other anti-Scottish Government stories this week. They are trying to push the Scottish Labour vote up.
Boycott STV News and their website, think of it being like BBC Scotland, only with adverts.
[…] The invisible and the visible […]
Handclap Rev. Standing up.
@ Paula Rose, “That was no lady, that was my MP” 🙂
The hypocrisy is tedious in the extreme.
caz-m
I just can’t get into STV or ITN news. It is worse than the BBC because not only do they push the same silly lines but it is also just a bit rubbish.
‘Agent provocateur’ always springs to mind or the ‘dirty tricks’ of the establishment?
If there’s any part of Glasgow with, “No Mean City” gouged on its forearm in sharpened Biro, it is Glasgow North East. The constituency, taking in a slice of Bishopbriggs in the north to the fringes of the city centre in the south, brings new shades of meaning to fearsome; it is urban squalor in every hue, an area that looks as if it is helping police with their enquiries. The UK Polling Report guide says Glasgow North East is one of the “most degraded, deprived and crime-ridden parts” of the country. Come here and you are left supposing it was just being diplomatic, though, as you shuttle between the mean, flatlining shopping centres and the vast science fiction interzone of the Red Road flats.
link to caltonjock.com
Just imagine how disconcerting it would be if all of a sudden there was silence. Not one piece of abuse, no swearing, no insults. What would they do? I think it would panic them more.
I keep saying it, if it were illegal for politicians to lie there would be a lot less anger and fuss
Guilty, you’re out!!
Long time reader, first time caller.
There’s an interesting aspect to this story. When I first noticed the page I shared it on Twitter, particularly some of the funnier put downs directed at Curran. It was retweeted quite a few times, by quite a few of the names above.
At that stage, nobody was being Broken Record abusive on it, most were taking great delight that Curran’s staff were blindly continuing to post standard press releases, imagining they were preaching to the converted and not reading the comments below, guilty of presuming each like was a genuine like, opposed to the key used to opening up Fb comments.
Stu’s call for calm is correct, but perhaps doesn’t take into consideration the many people who are not used to commenting on ‘grown up’ blogs, commenting on news stories, who haven’t been as engaged as many of us have over the past ten years. A simple look at many of the commentators posts reveals poor spelling, horribly constructed sentences, the repetition of a few slightly iffy facts, topped off with a volley sweary words. All very easy to put together and probably quite cathartic for them.
Without coming over as a completely condescending prick, these folk are finally engaged in the politics that will determine their kids futures, they have an opportunity to rail against someone who personifies all that is wrong with Scotland, in the form of the party their mothers and fathers voted for all their years.
Marky Mark above is right when he talks of older wiser hands quelling passionate debate on the early days of the cluster fuck that was Newsnet. Online debate takes a sound knowledge and as he rightly pointed out, eventually calmer hands prevailed and the factual, truthful narrative emerged.
Rather than do McTernan’s job for them by belittling and demonising the commentators, go on the page, comment alongside those who are being openly abusive, take the heat out of their words. Everyone of you who has commented above, does it with wit and intelligence, use that on the Curran page.
Or don’t. Currans still a fanny!
@ REV you crack me up every time you lose the rag, over Paragraph breaks.pmsl
Morag
It could be (it would certainly be a distraction from some the recent almost pathetic attempts Margaret has made at lying) but it is just as likely a reaction to the no swearing exhortation. It only takes a handful of people to litter a board with expletives.
Here is the type of thing to be posting.
Taken from my SNP branch page.
“Great response out canvassing tonight. 62% SNP 16% Labour 20% Don’t know.”
Oooft!
dakk says:
12 February, 2015 at 10:42 pm
Its deja vu all over again with STV and the rest of the British media……They will give max amplification to any minor indiscretions…..That is why this article is so valuable and should be widely shared to help deny them this cheap ammo.
It certainly is deja vu – we argued on this site before the referendum that we should try to keep the moral high ground, don’t give them ammunition, etc, etc. How did that work out for us?
If we had a press that held these politicians to account over what they say and do perhaps people wouldn’t get angry and frustrated, and maybe wouldn’t see the need to express themselves in such a fashion. BTW – the STV article reprints 45 abusive posts out of over 2000 on MCs FB page.
Maybe this will gain labour votes, maybe not. As I see it the majority of people who read about these antics in the media will fall into two categories.
If they are internet savvy they will look at the FB page and see the vast majority of posts are not abusive and actually ask valid questions, that are not answered by Curran or her staff.
If not internet savvy, I’d guess are of a certain age that would probably not be voting for a strong Scottish voice (as we would see it) in Westminster anyway. If they are SNP voters they will remember the same tactics were used 4 months ago and not be fooled anyway.
Perhaps members of political parties need to watch what they say, but people will be people and, although not condoning their actions, I for one won’t tell them how to behave on the Internet. Regarding some others on here throwing their hands up in horror at the nasties, how does it go ….people in glass houses…
I’ve read some quotes on here over the years that have even curled my toes 🙂
I think Mags has put up that FB page to attract insults so she can get publicity for it.
I read most of the page that ‘crashed’ and there was little abuse except folk calling her out as ‘misremembering’ what she had said.
Margaret Curran seriously needs to get over herself.
We have been used to, for over 100 years, the only sources of news being top-down, highly structured, owned not by us but by our ‘superiors’. So it was regarded as normal that there was never any swearing on tv, or by journalists in the newspapers.
If they had to report what people said, then any swearwords were either blanked out or filled with asterisks. You know, “the accused said ‘f**k the cops’ when he was arrested.” (And yet this shows that people did swear, even back in the idealised golden years of the past.)
Nowadays, people, and that means you and me and everyone else, have new technology which we can use to talk directly with one another, spreading information that is not filtered by the MSM. It is no surprise that everyday language is used by regular people when they, when WE, use social media to communicate.
People like talking with each other, exchanging news and views. Many will bring their speaking habits to their written conversations. Don’t expect the use of swearing to decline.
(Personally, I don’t mind swearing, you can normally ignore it. “Sticks and stones, etc”)
Margaret must know that in the west of Scotland, many people use swearing as part of normal speech. She is a gentle blossom indeed if she has not been exposed to ‘industrial language’ before now in her 56 years on earth.
To repeat, the honourable member for Glasgow East needs to get over herself.
We keep hearing anecdotal evidence that MPs are basically allowed to lie to us. Couldn’t that be construed as incitement to riot?
@ Jean Nisbet (22:10).
Are you talking about Alistair Carmichael, the proven liar to the people he is paid to represent? Nice friends.
Valerie honey – is that in Jim Murphy’s seat?
Maybe its time to stop focussing on Curran, whose record and own counsel will do the necessary damage to her prospects – and concentrate on who’s standing against her in her seat.
Natalie McGarry is a damn good candidate. Lets hear more from her Rev, get her posting here, and help the people make the choice that matters
Curran is a wind-up merchant. Not a smart one, but nonetheless a wind-up merchant.
People really need to learn how to troll properly.
What is more effective?
Posting a picture of the job centre in her south side place of residence with the caption “Mags new home?”
Or
Calling her a “bitch” or a “cunt” which tends to alienate some women from the cause because of the sexist nature of the taunts.
I’d rather people returned the broadside with something witty, mocking or factual (like for example the fact that she lives in the posh southside because she didn’t want her children to go to school with east end plebs. She thinks she is so above us all!) that clearly illustrate the craven Marie Antoinette streak that runs through her, rather than resorting to dull and overused ad hominems.
I actually did think about trolling her page (as would be my right, being a voter in her constituency), however…I did realise that this was going to be a lighting rod for the less articulate folk within our flock and decided to hold back. I would rather *not* have my name plastered across Labours media machines when they decide to close this trap.
Margaret must know that in the west of Scotland, many people use swearing as part of normal speech. She is a gentle blossom indeed if she has not been exposed to ‘industrial language’ before now in her 56 years on earth.
She would know that if she actually lived in the area she is paid to represent, but instead she chose to live in a well-to-do genteel part of the city, so go figure.
@Jamie Arriere
Maybe its time to stop focussing on Curran, whose record and own counsel will do the necessary damage to her prospects – and concentrate on who’s standing against her in her seat.
Natalie McGarry is a damn good candidate. Lets hear more from her Rev, get her posting here, and help the people make the choice that matters
I totally agree. The best candidate for Glasgow East won. I was worried for a while as some of the other candidates just seemed like long time party sycophants. She needs as much support as we can muster because Curran will play every single dirty trick in the Labour book against her, as she has previously done with other rivals in her political history. McGarry also seems to be out canvassing almost every other night, can’t say the same about her rival.
I’m curious how much swearing there is in Westminster, and especially in its subsidised bars. Or are our MPs and their guests all angels, all the time? Wonder if Magrit could enlighten us.
Not even sure if I’m allowed to reproduce it here (Apologies to Stephen Mulrine in advance) but it seems apposite, for at best these Facebook numpties on Magrit’s site are really nothing more than ‘wee malkies’ at the end of the day.
I think the poem could have been written with her (mildly paranoid and losing the plot) type in mind, but even if you disagree, it’s well worth a read.
We’re coming for you, Magrit!!
THE COMING OF THE WEE MALKIES
(Stephen Mulrine)
Haw missis, whit’ll ye dae when the wee Malkies come,
If they dreep doon affy the wash-hoose dyke,
An pit the hems oan the sterrheid light,
An play wee heidies oan the clean close wa,
Missis, whit’ll ye dae?
Whit’ll ye dae when the wee Malkies come,
If they chap yir door an choke yir drains,
An caw the feet fae yir sapsy weans,
An tummle thur wulkies through yir sheets,
An tim thur ahes oot in the street,
Missis, whit’ll ye dae?
Whit’ll ye dae when the wee Malkies come,
If they chuck thur screwtaps doon the pan,
An stick the heid oan the sanitry man,
When ye hear thum shauchlin doon yir loaby,
Chanting, “Wee Malkies! The gemme’s a bogey!”
Haw, missis, whit’ll ye dae?
The appeal for calm is well-timed, but we all need to reinforce it over the next couple of months.
I think that the longer it takes for a person to change sides in a debate, the tougher that decision is, and the more emotional it becomes. When that change of sides is preceded by a long period of denial (knowing that you were wrong but not having the courage to admit it), the “coming out” is often accompanied by a lot of anger – and that anger is, naturally, directed at those whom you followed on the old side.
As such, the old provocation and baiting tactics – which we’ve seen from McTernan and Murphy recently – are squarely aimed at recent switchers from Labour. They are the most angry, the most easily goaded, and the least experienced in this game.
Sorry, should have said thanks to Bibbit on Wee Ginger Dug (February 5, 2015 at 5:12 am)for reminding me about the Malkies!
Curren was on auto pilot yesterday as per usual – “The Scottish A&E is in crisis” – a brazen lie spoken in an interview along with a load of other nonsense about the Scottish Government.
One has to question the woman’s sanity, not for the things she says – they are straight off McTernan’s daily briefing sheet – but unhinged for presuming people believe her.
In style of communication she’s constantly over-wrought, manic, on the edge of a breakdown.
^^^It never surprises me how often Labour trot out the A&E line when its something that is so comprehensively debunked by their own time in office. Every damn FMQ since the days of Salmond, the same line gets repeated ad-infinitum. Every time it gets debunked. Its absolutely embarrassing for Scotland now that this is literally Labours only line of attack.
Its becoming their own version of Godwins law. The moment they utter it, they have lost the argument.
@Valerie(12:15 am):
Good call!
I’m getting a sense of deja vu with regard to the negative ‘cybernat’ publicity. I remember that Yessers were forced to go on the defensive. Not this time, folks, please.
My answer to any accusations of abuse (since I’m not guilty of it) is not to be defensive but dismissive:
“You can find this kind of abuse on any social media site if you look for it. Now, did you have something important to discuss?”
Better yet – as Valerie says:
“Here is the type of thing to be posting.
Taken from my SNP branch page.
“Great response out canvassing tonight. 62% SNP 16% Labour 20% Don’t know.”
Brilliant!
I fail to see why Celtic fans would be singing about being up to their knees in fenian blood! Oh wait, I just remembered, it’s only Rangers fans who sing offensive and sectarian songs isn’t it?
Your hatred makes my support stronger.
Since sleep is not forthcoming inside the barrel, a wee tale about Oor Magrit.
Quite a few years ago myself and my better half went along to a hustings meeting. A bit foggy on the details but Sarwar the Elder was making his debut and Curran was his minder/agent/troubleshooter. Afterwards, MC spotted my wife, who she knew for reasons other than politics, and came over with a big cheesey grin and immediately assumed we belonged to her camp. The look on her face when we declared in unison: ‘We’re both SNP’, was a sight to behold and more satisfying than all the sweary words in the world!
good article Stu. Only thing I disagree with is the comment about the Offensive Behaviour Act. It wasn’t intended to stop what you described, those songs had already been deemed illegal.
It’s a bad law, see the sheriff who described it as mince, it has a low prosecution rate and it doesn’t help when people mistakenly think its purpose was to deal with sectarianism. It was a power grab by the police and a way to prosecute Celtic fans because they failed to have any songs proscribed!
OK. It may not be condolable but what do they expect when they have utter control of the media to lie at will and contantly barrage and insult the intelligence of the Scottish people – all in an official capacity?
We all grew up with media self racism amnd self hatred towards anything remotely Scottish, none worse than the Labour collaborators in the media circus.
“‘I remember when Newsnet first started you had people jumping into the comments screaming this sort of abuse.”
“I’ll be doing it to you if you DON’T PUT PROPER FUCKING PARAGRAPH BREAKS IN YOUR COMMENTS, pal.”
Nurse nurse, we have a fainter,
Come on M4rkyboy sit up and drink this water, someone get him a chair,
You’ve got to be careful round those cyberRevs
he took all the spaces out from between the words in my post once, It looked like parliamo Glasgow, it wisnae funny Aa wis traumatised fur a week Aa kin tell ye.
M4rkyboy says
“Sorry man,is that when you hit return twice?”
What the fuck are you doing?
stay down man he’ll just come back and give you another kicking.
Note the spacing. 🙂
Croompenstein says
“@Soda –
Is your friend called Steven Seagull? ”
(snigger)
Have you ever seen Soda and Steven Seagull in a room at the same time?
Good. I’m glad you said that. After I followed the link here last night I was appalled. We are told we lost the elderly votes. A great many of them grew up in an age where profanity was unacceptable. I was tempted to comment on the other thread, but was too tired last night.
She may be an odious witch, but there are far more elegant ways to twist the dirk than to write what’s on that page. I read about 100 of them and I don’t think I saw a single one in support of her. I thought that was curious. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves came to mind.
We cannot descend into a mob. We have right on our side. So lets behave in a dignified and patient manner. We have years to endure before we are finally free.
Clootie says
“As they say in Sicily – “Revenge is a dish best served cold”
Can I have that with a side order of FFFFOULKES liver (flambe’d)and a cheeky wee Chianti, whilst wearing a leather mask?
ififififififififif
Thats weak Stu.Its obvious after such a slagging,Ms Curran is in need of some TLC.Some love-bombing.So come on Stu.Lead the way.I simply don’t have the literary skills required to express my feelings towards her in any way which might bring her comfort.You know those retro,really cool BOAC flight bags? We need to try to make her feel more like one of these.
“But even as with one voice the Scottish media wails in never-ending outrage about the terrible and outrageous impediment to free speech that is the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act, demanding the right for neds to sing menacingly and en masse in public about being up to their knees in Fenian blood..”
Really Stu, you embarrass yourself with your hatred of Rangers Football Club.
As I have pointed out before, many Rangers supporters are supporters of Scottish independence who have never sung anything about ‘fenian blood’.
Every time you make a snide comment about RFC, you reveal yourself to be as one-sided in your approach to Scottish football as the very newspapers you criticise are one-sided politically.
Fred Blogger says
“hit them in the ballot box, where it hurts.”
Kin Aa wear ma tackity bits?
Aa’d like tae kick em in the ballots!
_________________________________________________________
Paula Rose says
“Nice to see Wings regulars being polite on the page and by use of humour encouraging others to behave.”
Who do you think you F&*K^%G talkin tae?
Aa’ll meet you at the Brechin Bus stop eh a mean cocktail bar!
__________________________________________________________
@Betsy
I was about to respond with a quip about your
“Will you be voting SNP madam or can I put you down as a ("Quizmaster" - Ed)” (weelll it IS funny)
then I read the rest of your post and it aint funny,
RESPECT Betsy.
________________________________________________
Truth says
“I’d certainly want to know who was driving so I could buy them a pint.”
CHEAPSKATE!
_____________________________________________________
Morag says
“‘Agent provocateur’ always springs to mind or the ‘dirty tricks’ of the establishment?”
Dont say that,
He’ll come for you in the night.
_______________________________________________________
Turnip Ghost
I was going to comment on your post but I was distracted by a thought that’s been troubling me for ages now and its this,
How does the ghost of a turnip
manifest itself?
Is it a fart?
WE NEED ANSWERS.
_______________________________________________________
Ronnie Anderson says
“@ REV you crack me up every time you lose the rag, over Paragraph breaks.pmsl”
Nice to have known you Ronnie, I’ll drink your swally for you next Saturday. 🙂
_______________________________________________________
dakk says (woops nearly missed that one)
“Its deja vu all over again with STV and the rest of the British media.”
Whoohahahahaha
it certainly is, it certainly is dakk
_________________________________________________
Fat Boab (I never get tired of saying that)
Brilliant poem by Stephen Mulrine Fat Boab,
Thats how its done!
Unionist journalists have fed the Salmond,Sturgeon, abuse particularly those writing for the English based press.
Broadcasters are completely hypocritical when you the consider the Channel 4 hatchet job on young novice candidate Mhari Black but ignore Westminster MPs misdemeanours.
The bias is more often by omission and for an example this morning on BBC Radio Scotland GMS on Celtic Manager’s comments on football TV rights, they completely ignored his comments that Norwegian League gets three times the amount of money than the SPFL. I wonder why?
I wonder how many of those nasty tweets originated, not from ”cybernats”, but from John McTernan’s team?
Not much I can add to what has already been said. The outright abuse is unfortunate and pointless but there is genuine anger at her self seving lies. As far as I can she has not actually addressed any of the more reasonable comments and prefers to play the victim card as a distraction.
What really stood out to me was this comment “The End is Nigh for The Labour Lie”. Can we get a fundraiser going so we can have 100 sandwich boards made up with this written on it and have folk walk around the major towns and cities for the next few months.
Labour are mortally wounded and desperate because of their siding with the Tories during the referendum and with disastrous poll findings.
Those in favour of independence are in control. What is needed is disciplined, reasoned yet authoritative argument to completely annihilate Labour not stupid personal attacks that serves no purpose.
It has been mentioned that people are angry but the best way is not to get angry but to get even. Make sure the Red Tories don’t get elected by putting your political differences to one side and vote SNP on one day in May.
I have mixed feelings about this.
On the one side I do understand the potential for exposing the Yes camp to MSM criticism. It’s such an obvious piece of ammunition to supply the Unionists.
However!
I feel that some honest passion is required.
If I’m honest, I agree that Curren is a nasty, self serving person. Is she a Quisling? To answer that, ask an additional question. Is she actively collaborating with people outside her country of origin to the detriment of her country of origin and the people who live there?
The answer is “Yes she most definitely is.”
Can I extend this technique to other descriptive terms that have been associated with Curren?
Is she a ("Tractor" - Ed)?
The definition is as follows;
“a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle”
Well Curren is quite happy to see Scottish children rot in the misery of poverty. Here are the stats for poverty;
link to cpag.org.uk
As far as child poverty is concerned, Curren, a person with the influence and platform to actively do something to reverse these grotesque figures, actively chooses to do exactly nothing.
I could post other examples where Curren and her Labour buddies have made decisions that have negative consequences on the ordinary people of Scotland, but one thing I know for sure is that Curren is “a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle”
In other words, she is a ("Tractor" - Ed) and in the example used, specifically a ("Tractor" - Ed) to the children of Scotland.
Sometimes a little passion is a welcome thing, in order to highlight the shortcomings of particular people and organisations that could and should be actively working to better the lives of the Scottish people.
test
“Okay..they bastards have had a good week ..so how can we grab the spot light?’
‘Policy?’
‘Shut up!’
‘Cybernat attack!’
‘Bingo!!’
@ John King says ” Tackety bits”
Assuming it meant Tackety Beets , fit size ?
I’ll email ye a pair . LOL
Good piece Rev.
Most especially this section: “As a rule, people don’t wake up in a rage. Things make them angry, and when those things go unchallenged, when nobody speaks for them, when nobody puts their point of view or gives them a right of reply or makes those responsible answer for what they’ve said and done, that anger has nowhere to go and it heats up and boils over.”
They’ve spent decades stealing from us, leeching off us, lying to us and piss poorly representing us. Most especially the past three years they’ve spent not just in those leisurely pursuits, but they’ve taken up the politico/media sport of othering and scapegoating. Mind you they learnt this sport from masters who called it something else – divide and rule. Some of the statements, made by Labour and Conservative politicians especially, during the referendum were so far beyond the pale as to go straight into the category of never to be forgiven or forgotten. However, violence and mindless raving is not the answer. Never has been, never will be.
(Though thinking long strings imaginative of rude words and acts to be performed with the use of a stick and a sack of ferrets is acceptable.) 🙂
No, you want to hurt these people? You want some justice for the way you’ve been treated?
Then take their jobs.
Put someone in their place who will do what they are hired by the public to do – REPRESENT OUR INTERESTS – ACT ON OUR NEEDS – PROVIDE THE MEANS TO CREATE LIFE CHANCES. That’s the job description and there are a lot of motivated people out there, CVs in hand raring to go.
Maybe we should just love bomb her pages with cuddles and pictures of fluffy teddies wearing SNP stickers and YES badges. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit.
Better than boycotting, make notes of who the advertisers are and write to them telling them you will be boycotting them too. Explain why very, very politely.
Hitting them in the pocket is by far the best way to get their attention.
@ John King 7.55. um a barred noo shuurly no, the Rev,s ah very forgiving man, urent you Rev, Rev, Rev,.
Ach weil we awe faw oot fae time tae time,but Wings bonds us thegither.
Sees You,s next week John N Irene,& the rest of the Wingers.
Crisiscult – try watching Outlander on a website called Couchtuner – I watched it there in English – great series and there’s to be a season two coming out at some point – can’t wait to see it!
Would really recommend it.
[…] The abusive Facebook comments recently directed at Labour MP Margaret Curran and highlighted in a piece on the STV website today make us sigh. Not only are they horrible but they’re counter-productive, in every sense of the term – they’re not going to change Curran’s mind about anything by yelling at her, and they feed a narrative about “vile cybernats” that the media is all too eager to gleefully perpetuate. […]
Just listening to radio Scot.
Lord Fink reportedly said He was at the VANILLA end of the Tax avoidance.
Different strokes for different Finks wie added flaviour
if the statement,s true, it beats,Economical with the truth hands down,these people realy FINKS we are buttoned up the back.
A wee bit O/T but still relevant to Magrit and her pals.
Headline this morning from the BBC.
Labour plans to reform the banking industry!
And Magrit wonders why she is getting abuse FFS.
During the referendum there was always obvious signs that the unionist media was just waiting for the slightest impropriety from members of the Yes movement in order to blow it out of all proportion to the detriment of Yes. The obvious incident being egg-gate.
The unionist media are on the prowl for similar “incidents” involving SNP supporters. Don’t put it passed the unionist media to instigate such “incidents”. People like McTernan will be in contact with the unionist media every day, pointing them in the “right” direction.
I understand peoples’ frustration at lying unionist politicians and unionist propaganda, but we must stay cool.
I was hounded off-line by unionists, closed all my facebook, twitter accounts. I even had to close down Linkdin which was used for proffesional reasons.
They even found where I lived and posted it: wife and kids often on their own when Im away on business trips.
As far as Im concerned they can all go f**k themselves, I will NEVER have any reconcilliation.
The gloat fest will begin when Labour are in Scotland are confined to history like the Tories.
((((( RED TORY TRAITORS, OUT, OUT, OUT )))))
link to facebook.com
Protect Scotland’s interests – Vote SNP.
@Giving Goose.
I agree with your post completely and welcome the use of the Q word.
I am one of the last “war babies” and my father could not attend my christening.
He was in Norway with the British Army. Some years later I asked him about what he did there.
“Mopping up the Germans and helping the Norwegian resistance to root out the Quislings”
I knew what a Quisling was at a tender age. These Scottish anti-independence people really are Quislings and should be identified as such. Explain what you mean and why!
link to en.wikipedia.org
Note that he was also a “son of the manse” like our own G Brown and D Alexander.
My father and his mates all received a scroll from King Haakon thanking them.
Dan,
Thats why I deleted all my on line accounts: the unionists resorted to black arts to destroy and threaten prolific campaigners on line.
We need to be on the street this time not behind a keyboard.
Time to delete all facebook and twitter accounts and get off yer arses.
I don’t do facebook or twitter. But for those who do may I suggest a response that came up in a previous thread?
Love bomb her, and anyone else who comes up with this tripe (it could even be used with the MSM).
“Thank you for your comment/misleading statement about *****. I expect it will have added a few more votes to the SNP.”
Completely agree. Arguments are much more effective than abuse. It is essential that women feel comfortable in supporting the indpendence cause, and offensive language towards women MPs, however much they provoke it, is counterproductive. Nicola Sturgeon shows how it should be done. Let’s follow her example.
O/T – Jonathan Portes from the the Institute of Social and Economic Research speaking very positively about Nicola Sturgeon’s sppech this week, despite baiting from the BBC presenter. Probably his last contributionto the BBC news channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hIWNjldV–8&app=desktop
I don’t do Facebook or twitter other than read what is online but if we were to trawl through the moaner’s Facebook or twitter then we would see that the hypocritical position of that moaner. I get angry when I see abuse coming from all sides, it is rude and unnecessary. The abuse the people on the SNP/Yes side get is was far worse that what Curran is complaining about.
As the powers to be in Broadcasting/Press are firmly in the NO/antiSNP side don’t expect that to be reported much. Still the SNP are doing okay which must really annoy them. Long may they be annoyed.
Thanks Stu you have saved me an email this morning! Read James Daisley article just before going to bed last night. I couldn’t get to sleep for thinking about the wording of my rebuttal to the pish spouted by him, I was that angry. This is not lazy “journalism it is a organised campaign of miss information and MSM bias. Curran and her fellow liars have a problem, the WWW. The public from all backgrounds in Scotland can now easily expose the political deceit being fed to them every day. If they continue down this road it is only a matter of time before the pitch forks come out, maybe that’s what they are trying to incite. I did have some hope for Daisley as a proper journist but hey ho, just another Establishment stooge.
Let’s not forget that M.Curran was suspected of attending a £246 per head dinner as a guest of arms company Raytheon.
Whether true or not, there are many, and in her own constituency, who will be angry at even a whiff of this being true. Let’s not forget, this type of behaviour seems to be par for the course with WM politicians these days, ie ‘feather thy own nest before those less fortunate who you represent’.
Add to that M.Curran & Co voting with the Tory government to sustain the austerity programme, Trident renewal et al. And all that on the back of an establishment that has well & truly screwed the system in its own favour.
Folks are angry…they are struggling to survive while those that have been voted in to represent them appear to be living it up either on an inflated (and as exposed, many an ambiguous) expense account and/or attending glitzy functions.
I do not condone outright base abuse of individuals, but try to reason with angry foodbank attendees. Try telling someone who, perhaps along with family, is cold, hungry and struggling that they should play a civilised game when taking up the opportunity to comment directly to the figure-head that should be helping protect them.
Also, as a result of dare I say ‘community spirit’ and the great streak of social awareness that permeates through Scotland, there are a great many that voice their opinions on behalf of their less fortunate citizen.
Some of us may express ourselves eloquently, in a witty fashion that would be worthy of any Monty Python script, but, and this goes for M.Curran, media & Co…take a reality check and appreciate with what & whom you are dealing with.
Selective piousness is just as abusive.
Danny’s comment rather proves that abuse is too widespread. The Rev’s remarks are playground level – you started it, no I didn’t yes you did. Stop justifying the abuse!
@ John King 7.07. as Major Bloodnok would say John U ur offal but we like U, an you’ll hiv flambe’d scrambled egg an like it, or ah la Jim Murphy as it comes.
Danny would,nt be W Podmore by any chancety
nae takers noo piss off.
TROLL ALERT.
That’s the problem with the all of the media being unionist media, they only tell one side of the story, their side.
They can laser target individual negative stories for their own propaganda agenda, and ignore the masses of unionist abuse against Scotland.
This means we have to be whiter than white, while they can be as rude and abusive as they want, knowing they have media protection.
Until we have a fair and balance media, they will always have control of Scotland, and that is the bottom line.
john king says:
13 February, 2015 at 6:51 am
Croompenstein says
“@Soda –
Is your friend called Steven Seagull? ”
(snigger)
Have you ever seen Soda and Steven Seagull in a room at the same time?
Sorry gents, you have lost me. Can you explain this reference please?
Ronnie
He has escaped yet again. 🙂
People can’t feed or clothe their kids and we are supposed to be nice about it….FUCK MARGARET CURRAN!!!
Poor Margaret. Has no one told her she can delete comments she doesn’t like, and even block troublesome trolls? Shame she isn’t more internet savvy, or maybe she just enjoys playing the victim.
Would take this a bit more seriously if Wings weren’t using their twitter account to post divisive comments about football.
‘Would take this a bit more seriously if Wings weren’t using their twitter account to post divisive comments about football.”
If there’s anyone in Scotland more thin-skinned than whiny Labour MPs, it’s crybaby Old Firm fans. What IS it with them?
What I find most offensive is Curran and co inventing spurious lies to mislead the electorate. She is a very well paid public servant who would be better off serving the public properly, cleaning up her rancid party and caring more for those in poverty due to her warmongering policy of keeping Trident. Poverty of thinking is the problem.
Curran lied consistently during the referendum campaign.
Curran recently lied about voting against fracking.
Curran even lied about not attending an arm dealers bash.
Why are we concerned about the feelings of a serial liar?
Why does the STV even think this is newsworthy?
OT I’m going to say something crude.
Brent just went up through the $60 mark.
Facts are cheils that dinna ding, but they can be ignored – for a while:-
@Peter Sneddon 10.14
If you check out Curran’s Facebook account you will see how I have given her a regular exposition on her failings as an MP and her party. I doubt if my posts made her feel comfortable. Humour or lines to hard facts are particularly effective.
However I am never abusive, and I even take time to post on the Facebook sites of some who were abusive that they were simply leaving hostages to fortune and urge them to use their powers of articulation more effectively to win friends and influence people.
We only need another 5.5% – if we make a point of keeping everyone we already have on board.
@Big Jock says: 12 February, 2015 at 11:12 pm:
“Words are words. Giving her a P45 is better than any angry insult!”
Thing is, Big Jock, Margaret Curran, is not what might be termed, “Your common five eight”. As an elected member of, “The Commons”, she has no need to ever worry about where her next meal will come from or that she will feel the cold in her home ever again as long as she lives.
She will get pensions as a former MSP, MP and Government Minister. Golden handshakes and most likely a seat in the HOL at a £300 per day attendance allowance.
Not only that but in all her elected posts she has had subsidised food, drink and even many things the rest of us pay for as pastimes.
Why would such people bother if they get a P45? For sure she will never queue up at the Food Bank. Margaret has no doubt squirrelled away a goodly sum for her future.
Peter Sneddon,
celibacy is a better proposition.
Can you imagine the uproar if the SNP demanded that broadcasting be devolved to Holyrood? The MSM would go into meltdown. It would more than likely be an overall vote loser. However it would be a different story once they have “Their feet under the table” in Westminster so to speak. Just raising the issue and having a debate would help. One way of getting it onto the agenda and getting “our” side of the story over to the less informed.
Some people on our side have really got to learn that the language they use damages our cause, and plays right into the agenda of our opponents. This includes the talk of ("Tractor" - Ed)s and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s.
The MSM reported death threats against Salmond and Sturgeon. However, they never make a point of focusing and discussing it like they do with the so called cybernat abuse. Why is that? Is it because they think it is deserved? Do the MSM think they have brought it on themselves by supporting indepedence? Why is numerous examples of Brit nat bile ignored?
@Fergus Green 0943
Many thanks for this link. I would have missed it. I suspect that whoever commissioned the piece in the BBC will be Googling the location of their nearest food bank as we speak.
In all this stushie it would good to remind ourselves that the Labour man in charge of campaign in Scotland has a history of being abusive. No doubt someone can put up a link to his past behaviour.
Just to add to my above comment.
If we even had a debate about devolving broadcasting to Holyrood then we could force the BBC into defending their position in an open forum. Lets face it we dont have a lot to lose regarding broadcasting.
@Paula Rose says: 12 February, 2015 at 11:47 pm:
“The hypocrisy is tedious in the extreme.”
Indeed so, Paula Rose, but to whose hypocrisy do you refer? Our hypocrisy, their hypocrisy or did you perhaps mean the hypocrisy of the MSM and broadcasters?
I have a slogan:
Vote Labour
Get Stuffed!
Soda @ 10.12
Stephen Seagull had/has shall we say a VERY colourful vocabulary and the drunker he got the more colourful his language became Rev Stu had to step in a few times when his abusive language went over a line into trolling, I think the Rev eventually moderated him off the site, no offence meant though Soda. 😉
‘winna’ even, sorry Robbie.
Anyhoo, the graph shows that OPEC are simply doing the equivalent of someone running along the platform to keep up momentarily with a parting train.
Stephen was a “character”. There were times his comments were quite reasoned and funny and others when he just let rip at all and sundry – sometimes with no explanation with regards the subject.
A troll or someone who wore his anger on his sleeve and called a spade a fucking shovel?
I know that Robert. It’s a cruel and unjust world. Unfortunately the real crime is allowing Curran to maintain her position.
We have the power to get rid of her in May. It might not make her poor or settle the wrongs she commits on a daily basis. But it means she cannot continue as an elected representativ of our nation.
At the end of the day she will have to deal with her internal consciousness, and try and look herself in the mirror. I suspect she is maybe beyond guilt or remorse. Most Labour mp’s are just petulant and angry, that they have to justify their positions rather than just turning up.
The revolution only just started in Scotland after the no vote. That’s the part a brainless twit, like Curran cannot get her head around! Fundamentally the majority of people in Scotland don’t want what Labour want. That’s why they are being rejected. The Scots are a changed nation and Labour are not even in the queue for the bus, never mind on it!
It’s not the politicians in Scotland that are the problem. It’s the media. The Currans and Murphys are just making hay while the sun shines on them. I’d do the same.
Let’s face it folks, we’re caught in a bit of a pickle with the media at the moment and I for one haven’t a fucking clue how to sort them out other than starve them of revenue.
Until the media are brought back to balance this sort of thing will simply carry on.
Crowdfunding folk like Indy Live and our very own much loved Wings is a starter for ten.
Its not so much a unionist press and BBC, its England and how England thinks it owns Scotland. If you disagree they let you have it or at least some do. Scotland is never ever reported down here now, except for weather forecasting, Jim Murphy and YES bashing in the press or say the odd rancid Guardian Project Fear blast to get us to vote for their SLab ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s. Actually Murphy worship’s eased off a bit but 1 minute google and
link to wingsoverscotland.com
link to archive.today
link to independent.co.uk
Check out Sturgeon’s head replacing a penis under a kilt in the Independent cartoon. That there is Scottish culture.
We love you Scotland, as long as we are in charge of Scotland, otherwise.
How times change eh?
link to archive.today
“Don’t leave us this way”
@Heather McLean says:
Crisiscult – try watching Outlander on a website called Couchtuner – I watched it there in English – great series
Outlander is the series that UK broadcasters didn’t want people in Scotland to see before the IndyRef, and still don’t want them to see.
They remember and fear the effect Braveheart had before the 1997 Devolution Referendum.
Ah never goat ah call back fae Kay with the E on Tax avoidance, mibbee,s its because ah dont pay the Licence Fee, its snaw fair, whatever happened to free speech ha ha .
Magg’s should be more worried about the many thousands who feel the same about her but don’t use facebook. Hope labour get all they deserve in May
I totally get the anger. Margaret Curran is supposed to be a public servant. Whenever she lies (and, God, it is a lot), she is effectively misrepresenting herself to the people who pay her salary.
That’s akin to theft.
Would you put up with it from anyone else?
“I paid you to fix this dripping tap.”
“Aye, it’s fixed.”
“No it isn’t, it’s still dripping.”
“Well, I said it’s fixed, and I’ve got my money now, so bye.”
“But…”
Door slams.
But it’s so much worse with people like Curran because their lies subvert democracy, which we like to think of as a human right. And if someone takes away your rights, what do you have left?
Not in any way condoning the abuse Curran is taking but just imagine how angry you would be finding out that someone you thought was supposed to be supporting you, representing your interests turns out to be effectively stabbing you in the back, constantly lying to you and interested only in what is good for themselves. Kinda gets your back up.
But, as others have already said, the best way to deal with Curran and her Labour ilk is to make her pay in May by putting her and her other Red Tory cronies on the dole. An X against SNP will do it nicely.
@Morag says: 12 February, 2015 at 11:51 pm:
“‘Agent provocateur’ always springs to mind or the ‘dirty tricks’ of the establishment?
There is, of course, no truth whatsoever in the evil Cybernat rumour the ,”British Army”, 77th Brigade just happened to have been formed recently.
Aye!
Richt!
To the best of my knowledge there is no such military force as, “The”, British Army. There is, though, the UK army which is, “A”, British Army. These Unionists seem unable to remember their Empire ended some time ago. The United Kingdom is not Britain but is British.
A British Army spokesman said: “The 77th Brigade is being created to draw together a host of existing and developing capabilities essential to meet the challenges of modern conflict and warfare”.
I wonder just how long have those, “Existing”, capabilities been waging undeclared war upon what, “The Establishment”, perceives as the enemies of the Union?
The anger at Labour in Glasgow is palpable.
Over the last few days a couple of ‘No Red Tories’ stickers have appeared on the Dewar statue (as well as at other locations in the city). This morning, the stickers are gone from the Dewar statue – surely some minion was not despatched from the City Chambers to scrape them off, eh Cooncillor Matheson?
Let us focus on ridding ourselves of the Red Tories once and for all.
@Ronnie 10:06 am
“John U ur offal”
Are you calling John a haggis?
Or just a ‘lights’weight?
I find the whole debate about gross trolls a diversion, a complete waste of time. They will continue.
There is no doubt sensibilities have coarsened in society – just listen to any raking-it-in stand up comedian on television after the 9pm threshold.
Where do we draw the line>
I feel justified in telling a No voter he’s a fool or if pushed, a moron because he voted against his own interests let alone Scotland’s. But there are more important things to fix than the use of blunt adjectives.
I’ve been in correspondence with the BBC over their reporters propensity to promote the same lies endlessly. As a former executive I felt able to write direct to the head of the BBC Trust, she responsible for standards and ethics.
My letter was intercepted.
I complained of the illegality opening a letter addressed to an individual, with the exception of that person’s secretary or personal assistant. By minimum standards the secretary should reply on the individual’s behalf still ensuring the person contacted reads the contents. But my letter was passed out of her sight back down the line to the ‘Patronising Excuses Exit.’
I learn to day, that the chair of the BBC Trust, the person I wrote to in that capacity, Rona Fairhead, is also chair of a vital department of the corrupt bank, HSBC, specifically HSBC Audit committee – you guessed correctly, the same that oversees compliance and control failures.
Unsurprisingly, she has declined to answer questions on both counts, just like Stephen Green her former HSBC boss.
I’ll be writing about in in my blog once I receive an explanation of why BBC news editors allow their staff to broadcast untruths.
I expect to receive the standard excuse, they can’t trace the instances I refer to but rest assured BBC is a model of impartiality.
Curran is in it for the money, Holyrood wasn’t lucrative enough and panic has set in as she sees her gravy train head for the buffers.
She’s my MP and a stranger to the truth, in a previous election for Holyrood she warned the pensioners here that the SNP were after their bus passes and also claimed to be the only candidate born in the constituency, a blatant lie which was soon fund-oot. Curran wasn’t even born this side of the Clyde but thinks her constituents came up that river on a watter-biscuit!
It’s notable that she had her wee Labour greetin-meetin in a High Burnside tea shop and nowhere near the east-end and certainly nowhere near the Subway at the Fort. 🙂
This was aye The Provan, the boundaries have been mucked about with somewhat, leading to some confusion, but I’m pretty sure I will be voting for Natalie McGarry on the day.
Peter Sneddon @10:14.
Yup, passionate and I share the sentiment.
Fact; people in Scotland cannot feed nor clothe themselves.
Margaret Curren shares the responsibility for this outrage.
The Yes side were restrained in their language during the Referendum campaign and it didn’t achieve the desired outcome.
Let us be more honest regarding our feelings when people like Curren are concerned.
Curren actively campaigned for a No vote to ensure that people in Scotland remained in a position of poverty because it suits her and the Labour Party’s self interest. Shocking but true.
She deserves no respect.
john king says:
13 February, 2015 at 10:44 am
Soda @ 10.12
Oh i get you lol thanks for explaining. 🙂
@ Danny, first comment.
I choked on my toast. Thanks.
The oil price dropped because OPEC failed to reach agreement on Saudi over production. It will rise again and average out as an asset to any country that produces oil.
But then you all knew that.
Reading that willie Bain link is truly toe curling stuff. Extremely suspect postal voting got him in. Hmmm Red Tories and postal voting seems to attract attention eh? These arseholes are gonna sneak in on May 7th I’m convinced.
BBC now snared by the HSBC scandal.
link to theguardian.com
Calacus MacAndrew, if they think the portrayal of the actions of the, “British Army” are bad at the beginning of Outlander, I am sure your good lady wife will enlighten you to how bad it becomes later on. I would say that anyone who manages to watch this will realise just why the Establishment through the offices of the BBC are extremely reluctant to show it. After all the “Great British” this and that, it would be shown for the sham that it is. Well as one only has to read the comments from our loving neighbours in any comments page of any “English National Newspaper”.
On the subject of the rude and ignorant trolling by us Nats, I would reiterate what Stuart says, that given there is no other place to vent feelings, this is what happens. I would say most people once they think about it, must wish they hadn’t. Why give them ammunition to fire, but having had the misfortune to read over the years comments from humourless Unionist Trolls who think the height of wit is to shout you down. It would be nice to see the Fourth Estate actually doing what they were paid for,holding Politician’s feet to the fire and not just those whose political viewpoint doesn’t accord with theirs.
I think Jon Stewart said it succinctly in the National yesterday that having watch the corruption in public life over the many years, he is unlikely to be surprised by Politicians, he compares them to the monkey in the zoo, but he says it is when the Monkey is throwing shit and the Zookeeper is applauding that is the worry. The Zookeeper being the Fourth Estate.
@turnip_ghost says:12 February, 2015 at 11:59 pm:
“Just imagine how disconcerting it would be if all of a sudden there was silence. Not one piece of abuse, no swearing, no insults. What would they do? I think it would panic them more.”
Ach! turnip ghost, Are you not just the slightest bit doubtful that perhaps they panicked long ago and much of the apparent Cybernat abusive posts are the result of them needing to have someone, other than themselves, to blame for their slide into obscurity? No one knows if such posts are from genuine Independence seekers or from CyberBritnats or even the 77th Brigade.
You must see that their abject hatred of the SNP must stem from their failure to realise the nationalists are not responsible for their decline. London Labour in Scotland, (LLIS), were the party holding the moral high ground in Scotland and thus the Branch Office Party with the easiest job of retaining their seats.
They are losing them due to no longer holding the Moral High Ground but cannot accept that fact. They thus lash out at the Nationalists in general and the SNP in particular. “It wisna us Mister. The SNP did it an ran awa ower there”.
London Labour In Scotland cannot recover until the accept they have to change and the methods adopted by Murphy, Curran Bain, et al, are not the change needed to revive their fortunes. Those of Labour For Indy are what they need. That is to cut the chains that bind them firmly to London.
Or singing songs about glorifying the IRA, for that matter.
O/T
It is abundantly clear that the MSM in Scotland are out to ‘protect’ Labour. I posted this (below) on The Herald and it was removed. Nothing offensive about it and nothing untruthful. There shall be no dissent. This is what we are up against people.
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
@ Proud Cybernat 12:03 pm
Me? Banned from the Herald for objecting to OBE’s Language and accusations at SNP politicians and others(that’s one I’d like to see in court,and the pointy badge shoved)
@ Chic McGregor 12:08 pm
Totally agree although Ben Elton became the Labour luvvy and boring,in the words of Paul Simon ” I heard the truth from Lenny Bruce”
Dear John King
@6.43am
I have often smiled at this or that witty comment made on this site or others, but this is one of the few times that I have laughed helplessly until tears. Thanks for that.( And I am nursing a broken ankle, too. Double thanks.)
Hope the Rev Stuart was similarly amused by the sly humour. It was like cheeking teacher….
Many years ago, when I was working as a device physicist in the semiconductor industry, I tried to break in to editorial cartooning as a sideline.
This met with little success (I did get on to a short list once of a paper I wouldn’t work for now).
Naturally I sought the opinion of other cartoonists although none were editorial cartoonists.The general advice was that mine were too tame, that editorial cartoons had to shock and push boundaries.
Fair enough, I could see their point. So I started doing some with that in mind.
However, still no success.
Then at a cartoonist’s exhibition (I was an entrant) I spoke with an old Scottish cartoonist who told me that I was wasting my time, because in Britain, the only ones ‘allowed’ to criticise the establishment were those who had gone through the establishment machine – public school, OxCam, themselves.
That was a revelation for me, because I suddenly realised that it was true. All my satirical heroes from TWTWTW, Private Eye, Python and the rest, including editorial cartoonists, were of that ilk.
It was a very bizarre situation, a bit like the police investigating themselves.
A chink of light started to develop when Dave Allen began to introduce establishment criticism into his act, although largely confined to the religious establishment (safer target?). He was arguably the father of modern stand-up. A feat he ironically achieved by famously sitting down. But I guess maybe he felt he had to break the mould from the traditional ‘music-hall/club’ style to achieve (what I think) were his aims.
This, I think, paved the way for the likes of Ben Elton and Alexei Sayle and a new genre of stand ups who criticised the establishment from the outside.
But this, of course, was still highly corralled into clubs and largely off our screens.
But progress continues with Charlie Brooker being the nearest thing yet to a full blooded and televised satirical programme to date, from a team outside the establishment.
And the internet has thrown another spanner into the establishment works.
BBC now snared by the HSBC scandal.
See my post at 11.21am.
On the subject of the rude and ignorant trolling
Good post, Helena.
This does not help our cause of course.
However, it is born by frustration caused by our devious MSM in league with the Labour party who think they actually have the right to Scottish votes.
While totally understandable that folks get totally fed up of the one way traffic, we need to temper our response as this is exactly what they want to feed their lies.
However, I do think there should be a major statement by the SNP on the inadequacies of all our media outlets who ignore the true facts, and that is that we are vilified far more than they are.
They need to ask questions of the BBC, STV and all the Msm just why they allow this, and openly ask just why they do it. ( will be ignored of course, but something needs saying )
Rev – you block people who point out the deficiencies of your arguments and the number of times you make errors in your reporting (most recently in your article about George Foulkes).
So having 1500 on your list does not prove your point about foul language!
Oops, I went off on one there and never made the point I started out to.
A study of editorial cartoons shows that they are littered with the most outrageous imagery. Everything from the frequent depiction of stabbings in the back of politicians to depicting them as vile monsters of one kind or other, sometimes with blood and guts strewn around, cannibalism, hangings, in short anything they can think of to shock and thereby grab attention and persuade.
However, I have found that on the internet, at least on the ‘Scottish’ internet, even cartoons at the mild end of that spectrum come in for heavy criticism, even from ‘on-side’ readers so they become ‘not allowed’.
Seems satire is still partitioned into who is allowed to do it, to me.
The other thing to remember is that the MSM will not give a balanced report. i.e. report on abusive comments by both sides.
Nobody should make abusive comments.
While Daisley’s article has a reasonable overriding sentiment, there are a few points to consider.
1. The posts and the identity of the posters identified were not verified.
2. It’s not fair to give the impression that Margaret Curran is some kind of poor, innocent person who has done nothing to annoy anyone and deserves no criticism.
3. Mr Daisley posts things on Twitter which causes offence to some people. Recently he posted “awwwww shame” in relation to some people being killed by drone strikes. When mildly challenged at the time he became rather upset, suggesting that people should use the unfollow button. Very sensitive for a professional satirist.
4. When I reminded Mr Daisley’s of his tweet in light of this latest article of his I was immediately blocked.
In short, I’m not in favour of people being roundly abused online. If something is said which is threatening, defamatory or obscene, that is totally unacceptable.
Mr Daisley however is hardly the best person to be lecturing anyone on netiquette.
Chic: Seems satire is still partitioned into who is allowed to do it, to me.
I cannot find genuine satire on BBC TV – for that, the kind that moulds entire attitudes – see USA’s The Jon Stewart Show – but now and then there’s a flash of political satire on a radio programme, usually a topical news comedy.
People like Brooker are refreshing to listen to – often resorting to troll language to put across their points – butI have to keep in mind content is controlled.
There is a producer overseeing content, an editor, and a departmental head. Anything remotely iffy or slanderous is nixed, or if the presenter insists on keeping it in his script, sent up to BBC lawyers for a decision.
Remember the evidence the Referendum gave us.
Kevin Bridges made his own ‘enquiry’ programme in which he interviewed three friends. They were all enthusiastic about Scotland as a place to live and work.
A viewer wrote to Bridges, “Why did you not ask them how they’d vote?” The reply?
“I did ask them. They are all Yes voters. The BBC edited it out the show.”
Honesty and truth is anything the BBC wants them to be.
We should copy the example of the Wee Ginger Dug and LAUGH at her. Being verbally abused shows her as a martyr. Would she admit “They’re LAUGHING at me”?
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@David says: 13 February, 2015 at 12:27 am:
” … it was regarded as normal that there was never any swearing on tv, or by journalists in the newspapers.”
AhYes! Very good point, David,. But perhaps just a smidgen off the bull’s Eye.
A News Report is a reporter telling a mass user base the news but doing so not in a person to person manner. The new on-line media is not so much a pre-prepared and thought through media but more like a face to face conversation.
If you think about it most people consider on-line communication as, “Speaking”, with others and you can see this in such statements in print as, for example, the commenter typing, “I’m talking about how Mags Curran said …”. Obviously the commenter is NOT actually talking but is typing – but the feeling is of being in direct face to face conversation.
On the other hand when reading an article we regard it somewhat differently. Here’s another example – note how the Rev Stu adopts a quite different style in the heading article than he does telling a commenter off for not using paragraph breaks. In the first he is addressing a mass readership – in the second it’s a face to face telling off.
It’s a bit like the man & wife sitting talking with each other in their own home in either Lowland Scots or Scottish Standard English – the phone rings – and the lady of the house picks up the phone and, without even thinking about it, adopts her Telephone voice of, (as near as dammit), Standard English.
I want to say to all ” Calm heeds” that you are right about the swearing and abuse on FB at MC. We should not give them any ammo.
Saying that …..
Mags is a liar and has used scares and smears to undermine any work done in the name of SNP or independence. Many people have no where to turn and are frustrated beyond belief that the MSM continue to lie to us in their name.
I hope we get rid of every last one of the liar troughers.
Labour playing the victim is even more frustrating. They have a lot to answer for and thats the point. Mags and her ilk will never needed a foodbank or handout. never have to juggle the cost of food to cost of heating.
They are ("Tractor" - Ed)s. Continually spinning drivel for WM and NOT representing the folk that vote them in. What else can we call them?
I have no sympathy for any of them and if they continue to use twitter and FB to peddle their lies then they should be prepared for the inevitable backlash.
I want the whole gang sacked. Roll on may when the likes of Mags and co are finally thrown off the gravy train. And on that day you will find me dancing in the streets.
You ask for calm heads and i agree. But i won’t condone anyone , even the abusive trolls she and her like get. They are angry and frustrated. We are only human after all.
Small footnote.
I have been tarred a Nazi, fascist, commie, anti English mouthpice and a whole lot more. I go onto those sites expecting it. If i don’t want trolled i come here to WINGS where most like minded folk do.
It;s easy to change the page .. or not visit it.
And lets be honest . This is a war.
It could be worse…we could be on the streets rioting…and all manner of other more, shall we say, ‘traditional’ forms of protest.
It’s ‘safer’ to vent online…for everyone concerned…they can complain all they like about it…we’re actually quite lovely people on the whole, look what we have put up with!
They’re just pissed off we haven’t done worse in response to their goading…I think we’re unbefuckinlievably reasonable, and they just can’t get the leverage against the arguments so are reduced to this ‘baiting’ to ‘create’ some sort of narrative of ‘evil’.
Pathetically transparent pish.
@Grouse Beater says: 13 February, 2015 at 2:03 am:
” … One has to question the woman’s sanity, not for the things she says – they are straight off McTernan’s daily briefing sheet – but unhinged for presuming people believe her.
Err! Grouse Beater, Obviously a substantial number in that constituency have believed her as she is not only the sitting member but has been for quite a while.
Re only OxCam grads being allowed to do satire.
The indy ref opened a lot of eyes and that’s why there is anger – but I’m sure we all know that.
When Ian Hyslop came over all BritNat, I realised that he was part of the establishment and his ‘role’ was to play at satire.
Did anyone ever watch 7 up? That showed pretty much that public school Oxbridge grads have it all sown up.
Some of the people on that fell by the wayside but pretty much they all ended up where expected, ie the OxCam = the BBC
It’s the folk who refuse to take the red pill who don’t know or want to know what’s happening.
I’m going to make your quote a hashtag, especially for Labour – #TheHypocrisyIsTedious . Imagine how often I’ll be able to use it.
the reason mags has put that fb page up is to gather info about all the trolling to use at wastemonster so they can bring in even more ways to close down sites
think about it how many times has she answerd any comments the second she said no swearing should have raised a red flag (pun intended)before long this will be raised in london and super dooper new laws will be brought in just saying what my other half said
what do you guys think am i being bullied by my other half to think the same thing
@The Man in the Jar says:
13 February, 2015 at 10:33 am
The MSM would go into meltdown. It would more than likely be an overall vote loser.
The above comment was regarding devolution of broadcasting – interested as why you think it would likely be a vote loser?
Peffers:
“[Curren] is not only the sitting member but has been for quite a while.”
Are you suggesting they all listen to her and take note of what she says, and attend her every meeting?
I though you voted Labour blindly out of tradition because your parents did, and their parents before them? And how many were ‘helped’ to the voting booth?
And by the same yardstick, did they all follow her counsel and vote No to self-governance?
@Ronnie Boyd says:13 February, 2015 at 7:34 am:
“Really Stu, you embarrass yourself with your hatred of Rangers Football Club.
As I have pointed out before, many Rangers supporters are supporters of Scottish independence who have never sung anything about ‘fenian blood’.
Far be it for me to defend the Rev Stu, (for he is more than able to defend himself), but allow me to inform YOU that the vast majority of the people of Scotland don’t give the proverbial tinker’s damn if either Celtic or Rangers get their best wish to desert the Scottish football scene to join the English Football Leagues.
As the one marches under the foreign flag of the Red Hand of Ulster and the other the foreign flag of the Irish Tricolour they may take themselves and their odious supporters off to Ireland or England anytime that either country will have them. That to the betterment of Scottish football as a whole.
Liz:
When Ian Hyslop came over all BritNat, I realised that he was part of the establishment and his ‘role’ was to play at satire.
He’s pretty ruthless too. Read how he attained editorship of Private Eye. (Probably wishes he was born John Betjeman.)
Interesting comments about Quislings. In January 1939, Douglas Young, who led the SNP from 1942 to 1945, wrote, “If Hitler could neatly remove our imperial breeks somehow and thus dissipate the mirage of Imperial partnership with England etc he would do a great service to Scottish Nationalism.” In August 1940, Young wrote, “The Germans will look around for aborigines to run Scotland and it is to be wished that the eventual administration consist of people who have in the past shown themselves to care for the interests of Scotland.”
Could Ms J Lamont be behind some of the darker responses ?
Not making excuses and the REV is spot on, but we must understand the word we are missing is ‘FRUSTRATION’.
Frustration about Labour/Establishemnt Lies and the media not taking them to task in anyway.
Many of the public are deeply frustrated at broadcsasting bias and MSM in general.
Ms Curran is just an easy target and sadly the frustrated respond the way they did here. ( not helpful I agree but not surprising either).
Big Jock @10:50 am
‘….she will have to deal with her internal consciousness’
I’m sure you meant conscience, but somehow consciousness seems to equally fit the bill
@frogesque says: 13 February, 2015 at 8:46 am:
” … There is more than one way to skin a rabbit.”
Aye! But that old saw is normally said by those who have never attempted to actually skin a rabbit. There may indeed be more than one way but, like many another tricky job, there really is only one successful way to do so.
Rob the computer read my mind!LOL
@Ross Leslie says: 13 February, 2015 at 10:21 am:
“Would take this a bit more seriously if Wings weren’t using their twitter account to post divisive comments about football.”
What is so divisive about wanting rid of the previous Old Firm Duo of sectarian driven clubs that both own more loyalty to Irish Politics/Christian sects than to Scotland and Scots.
Did you imagine that this forum was biased to either former Old Firm club? One lot wave Ulster Flags and the other Irish Tricolours – they quite obviously are Irish not Scottish teams and both have made claims to wanting to be English teams.
This ‘nasty cybernat’ narrative, was very very quick off the ground in media terms. The most basic search will show you it certainly isn’t one sided. Again, the most basic searches will demonstrate it rather handily ramped up just as labour and MSM decided to run with this angle, which might not too strangely lead a person to jump to conclusions about the hand of McTernan and his ‘cyber army’.
As you sow so shall you reap, anger and frustration from the voices blocked out and without audiences that these liars can command will undoubtedly turn a bit negative. Which leads nicely to the old ‘a government should fear the people, not the people fearing a government’ tagline. They may not be the government, but Labour, Curran, Murphy et al should fear the people, they’ve gone too far and payback is never a delicious dish to dine on. Seats will be lost, just a re-branding soundbytes will be ignored. too much is too much and for the many Labour have gone past what is too much. Can’t say I have any sympathies for them at all. A plague upon their houses.
@ronnie anderson says: 13 February, 2015 at 11:06 am:
“Ah never goat ah call back fae Kay with the E on Tax avoidance,”,
Ah’m wonderin whit happened tae her ither e’e, Ronnie.
” … mibbee,s its because ah dont pay the Licence Fee, its snaw fair, whatever happened to free speech ha ha .”
Kaye wi the wan e’e, believes in free speech, Ronnie, bit only fir Kaye wi the wan e’e.
Yes Will Podmore we are all National Socialists.
Grow up or go away. Please!
You are not even funny or clever.
Mildly amusing.
Where are the links to the quotations? The Rev likes us to give substantiation. It’s the Wings Way!
No Robert, you mistake me. I did not write that you are all National Socialists. You fallaciously generalise. I merely pointed out, in a discussion about Quislings in WW2, that statements by a long-gone leader of the SNP showed a distinct tendency towards Quisling-like behaviour.
The quotes are from Gavin Bowd’s book Fascist Scotland.
I like what you write about substantiation – pity you don’t all follow the ‘Rev”s advice.
@ Peffers. You’re into the oral foaming again, the flags are waved to wind up the opposition, that’s what fans do. That the troubles in Ulster had their effect in the west of Scotland is hardly surprising allowing for the emigration here from both traditions post the Famine. Had partition never happened or had successive British governments moved on the lack of any democracy across the North Channel, the Orange Order would now be history.
There was no shortage of sectarianism in an Edinburgh where a Protesant party even sat on the council, anti-Catholicism was the order of the day and as for football hooliganism, check Hearts & Hibs riots on Youtube.
If the Protestant majority in Glasgow voted along sectarian lines there would never have been a YES vote in this city. Just remind us how things went in Edinburgh, a city which sits with its hands out for everything that’s going but voted not to be the capital of an independant Scotland. A fucking disgrace, pardon the French. We don’t need any lessons in patriotism from Gods Frozen People.
@Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 13 February, 2015 at 12:13 pm:
” … If there’s anyone in Scotland more thin-skinned than whiny Labour MPs, it’s crybaby Old Firm fans. What IS it with them?”
Oh! That’s an easy one, Rev Stu – “The truth hurts”, is the answer. They know you are telling the truth – and it hurts, so they then attempt to say YOU are the fault in order to ease their own pain.
Ask us another?
Advise for MC. You are in complete control and the editor. It’s very simple press Delete Account
Anent sectarianism in Edinburgh,
link to leithermagazine.com
@liz says: 13 February, 2015 at 1:25 pm:
“Re only OxCam grads being allowed to do satire.”
Hopefully, Liz, you realise that Oxbridge is at the very heart of, United Kingdom, “The Establishment”. Just as Glasgow University is at the very heart of the Scottish Branch of the London Establishment. Look at the London Labour in Scotland Hecht Heid Anes. Look at the BBC Scotland people, the Majority fit right into those groups.
Will pod
When are you gonna realise the wars over . Hitler is deed.
What the SNP are now is a voice for Scots. Trusted more than the bams your support.
Typical unionist changing history to suit yourself.
Welcome to 21st century politics Scotland style. Who gives a hoot what happened before most of us were born. And i am not responsible for the sins of the past .
PS. Comparing us to Natzi’s ha ha . The nerve . This post is about abuse online and you are one of the abusers.
Hypocritical fud
Here is a link to Gavin Bowd for Will Podmore
link to scotsman.com.
Yes the cybernats had a go at him.
Signing off now.
@bald eagle says: 13 February, 2015 at 1:36 pm:
“The reason mags has put that fb page up is to gather info about all the trolling to use at wastemonster so they can bring in even more ways to close down sites.”
Or, Bald Eagle, to justify actions by the 77th Brigade. Perhaps even to give the 77th Brigade a source to begin traces on opponents.
This by seeding some offensive stuff by the 77th in order to get others to follow the trend and then try to nail one or two opponents to use as examples through the courts.
What the 77th Brigade is can quite simply be regarded as the United Kingdom declaring military war against an integral part of the United Kingdom. Which is exactly what Scotland is until gaining independence.
By co-incidence I’ve been quiet for a wee while yesterday as I had two different computers become affected by strange infections. Yet I had not downloaded anything or visited anything other than political sites or links provided on political sites. Never even read emails.
Are we being got at?
@Grouse Beater says:13 February, 2015 at 1:38 pm:
“Are you suggesting they all listen to her and take note of what she says, and attend her every meeting?
No. I made ne suggestions whatsoever. I just stated an obvious fact.
“I thought you voted Labour blindly out of tradition because your parents did, and their parents before them? And how many were ‘helped’ to the voting booth?
And by the same yardstick, did they all follow her counsel and vote No to self-governance?
Well if we knew that as the truth we could beat it no-problem. Fact is, for whatever reason, Mags has a majority. Now I know, in my own home village that the main bulk of the older parts of the village that vote Labour have what is known locally as, “Earsehole Connections”, to a long, long line of Labour Supporting, Ex-Labour supporting Trade Union reps, Local and Regional Labour Cooncillors, MPs and even the odd-local Provost.
There has been much new private housing built but, being private, has a hard core of Tory/LibDem among them. It really is amazing just how many in the village proper are related to the old Labourites. At one time there was a cul de sac in a choice locaton and every house in it was related to a Labour Party councillor. Add to that the favours called in and you get the meaning of, “Earsehole Connections”. I kid you not.
As Labour start to fade so do the connections but it doesn’t happen overnight.
Peffers: I just stated an obvious fact.
Bit of a waste of time stating the obvious when addressing an intelligent, informed poster. Yes, Cullen exploits her majority to tells untruths, but logic tells us a good many must have resisted her calls to screw Scotland.
By the way, I notice some time back you had Frederic Lindsay’s novel, Brond, down as a work in a list of works on the side of the union, when it’s exactly the opposite. You didn’t correct that opinion.
I don’t go on websites and post abuse about people any more than I would shout abuse at people in the street but I would find it difficult to disagree with most of the comments made. I have first hand experience of Curran having attended a Scottish Women’s convention meeting that was adressed by her and frankly, I’ve never encountered such a cynical person in my life. Compared to the other speakers she was an embarrasment.
I agree totally. Go to David Cameron’s fb page and see the abuse there, all party leaders are abused. It doesn’t make it better but it does make you wonder about the reporting of it. I am not an abusive person, I’d criticise their politics but would never make personal abuses. During the referendum campaign I wasn’t an activist, wasn’t a party member and at the start, wasn’t sure how I’d vote. I had to report abuse from about four people (I’m not easily offended but don’t take sh*t either) and had to block a total of 15 people. Near referendum day I was blocked, for no reason I can think of from a number of pages, after having been on them for more than six months! The level of anger and strength of the abuse and threats from ‘unionists’ really shocked me. They seemed to be tightly knit but what worried me most was that Darling only had a degree or two of separation from people who can only be described as extremists. It revealed much about those who represent us. I disagreed with their politics but had always thought them to be sincere and respectable – I was very wrong!
@Fred says: 13 February, 2015 at 3:16 pm:
“You’re into the oral foaming again, the flags are waved to wind up the opposition, that’s what fans do.
Yes Dear!
There! There! There!
Oral foaming? I live alone since my wife dies so no oral foaming yah numptie!
Sheesh!
The Battle of the Boyne was a very long time ago and there isn’t a single person alive who was there at the time. Now before you go any further here’s my history. My family were evenly split, going back for generations, between Protestant and Roman Catholics. I attended whatever school happened to be closet to home. I have no axe to grind for any sect of Christianity. In fact I’m not religious in any way. There are no Gods, (Unless, of course, you can prove otherwise).
As to Edinburgh football I first went to football when people didn’t travel to away games. I couldn’t afford to go to either Easter Road or Tynecastle so attended week and week about Leith Athletic and Edinburgh City games.
Later I could attend week & week about Hib & Hearts games.
I also have no football axe to grind either, but did tend to support Hibs as I trained along with the Famous Five, (attending secondary school next to Easter Road). It has been a very long time since Hibs were an RC Club. Even back in the 1950s their management were mainly Freemasons.
” If the Protestant majority in Glasgow voted along sectarian lines there would never have been a YES vote in this city.
Now I do not know what that says to you but I’ll tell you what it says about sectarian Glasgow Football support to me. First of all Greater Glasgow has a population of 1.2 Million. Average Old Firm gates are well below that and every game sees busses travel from all over Scotland and even from England from the province. Ergo the support is no indicator of Glasgow’s political leanings.
It also indicates that the travelling support to home games bears little resemblance to either club being a Glasgow only supported. Furthermore they draw that support on a sectarian basis or there would be far less signs of sectarianism as among such large proportions of their support. There are several Rangers supporters groups in Fife that leave from local lodges. BTW: That part about travelling support to home games goes for the Celtic Support too.
For heaven’s sake I have a friend who considers himself as Irish but his family connections are many generations Scottish Catholic born. I’ve probably got about as much Irish genes as he has. With all Grandmothers and Great Grandmothers at leas being from Ireland.
@Ricky says: 13 February, 2015 at 3:42 pm:
“Will pod. When are you gonna realise the wars over . Hitler is deed. What the SNP are now is a voice for Scots. Trusted more than the bams your support. Typical unionist changing history to suit yourself.
Matter of fact, Ricky, the unionist claims of early Nationalists supporting the NAZI party are utter mince. The true facts are: –
“PS. Comparing us to Natzi’s ha ha . The nerve . This post is about abuse online and you are one of the abusers.”
Well now you will know, Ricky, how to treat any of Podmore’s posts in future.
Now who was it said, “The truth will set you free”?
Robert Peffers.
I was going to add that i can get accurate history from you Rob. But Will P gets on my goat with his selective memory. He lurks here desperate for someone to make a mistake so he can pop in and remind us of his view.
Thankfully Robert i can ignore him if and when i choose. Thanks for keeping me right. 🙂
Mr pod.
The whole business with the YES movement and the politics of Scotland is forward looking , not back. We want to build a better way , the world is a very different place from the 40’s and 50’s. Hell even the 90’s are old news.
You will never see through your rosey tinted glasses or understand the drive we have and that’s a shame. You don’t know what your missing.
I sometimes feel pity for the unionists and their blinkered view. The yes movement was inclusive, anyone could join in.
then i remember they sold my country down the swanny
Nawbags are bawbags.
When I voted Yes, I did so for everyone in the UK – I didn’t vote to invade Belgium.
Our mags is Scottish Laboure’s Agent Provocateur ..first you think fuck that .then after a gallon o gin , it’s all if she had a big strap on i’ll talk a ride on the pink bus round the kitchen table !!
2 Thumbs up from me.
Unfortunately this is a product of many years of social and economic decline and more importantly…education.
I am not in any way attempting to justify or condone the actions of some people but it does demonstrate there frustration and highlight’s people are angry and frustrated at the current political landscape.
Some persons cannot articulate the point effectively without inappropriate language that gives “the branch office” an obvious “tick in the box” with the “see…these cybernats…”, but they should engage their brain before firing and forgetting…
There’s nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade, or in this case calling a soulless lying boot a soulless lying boot! If anything, it should be encouraged, I couldn’t give a monkeys tit how the MSM spin it.
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