The illusion of choice
Posted on
February 13, 2021 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Bravo Chris…on the money as per.
Brilliant work Chris.
Exactly how I feel, only I can’t vote for any of them.
Nice on.
I’ll be voting SBP(spoiled ballot paper) on the constituency vote and ISP on the list…..might mention ferrets on the 1st ballot though.
Nice one.
I’ll be voting SBP(spoiled ballot paper) on the constituency vote and ISP on the list…..might mention ferrets on the 1st ballot though.
Brilliant !
Nicola and the wokeratti and their intransigence have brought us to this. They deserve what’s coming.
ISP on the list, and probably SNP for the constituency, depending on how woke the candidate in NE Fife is (Ruaraidh somebody-or-other). Willie Rennie is a good constituency MSP, but his cynical Unionism (he just wants to be different from the SNP) makes him a liability for Scotland’s future.
Bang on the money Chris. I’d rather jam my fingers in the car door than vote for you know who. ISP on the list.
I’m writing to my SNP constituency candidate with two questions.
1: what is a woman?
2: do you support the hate crime bill?
Depressingly, I believe I already know the likely response, but worth it to elicit that response, which I can show to others. It’ll likely be spoiled ballot/ISP for me. I fear too many still believe a vote for SNP is a vote for independence, and too few are aware of the agenda & policies they are actually trying to implement. Or the corruption, collusion & cronyism.
Christ it’s depressing.
Exactly the choice Chris. Brilliant work.
Another Rubens, excellent Chris. 10/10
Defo ISP or which ever new Indy party is on the list.
I keep messaging those parties to work together to harvest the Indy vote to the best effect resulting in maximum No of List Indy MSP.
BTW, a huge part of me wants ISP to put up a Constituency Candidate against certain people like NS, JS etc
Sadly the down side could mean a Unionist candidate steal it due to split of Indy vote. It’s a bug###!
For the first time in my life I’m just gonna decide on the morning of the 6th of May, see how it all pans out.
Fairly scunnert.
Don’t vote SNP because they treat Scots like serfs. We’re the proleteriat, the unwashed.
Just wondering about how SNP are going to fund their holyrood campaign this time round. Then I realised they’ll be wooing big real estate, big bank and any other neoliberal lobbyist they can think of.
@AwakeNotWoke says:
13 February, 2021 at 8:17 am
“I’m writing to my SNP constituency candidate with two questions.
1: what is a woman?
2: do you support the hate crime bill?”
Possible answers:
1. The question is too broad so we will decline to answer.
2. Yes, as you will soon find out.
Sturgeon and her cabal have destroyed the party. All of my extended family will be voting to get the SNP out of office.
Good-yin, Chris. (The wummin’s expression, attitude!..)
@Beaker 8.48am
Five will get you ten that most will give you a non-answer answer? Prior to 2019 election I asked my candidate (Edinburgh West) her views about GRA and got a long non-answer which attempted to be all things to all people. I see she is now the candidate for Edinburgh West @ #HR2021 to become an MSP.
I think it’s pretty obvious if you follow Sarah’s twitter feed, look at her followers, re-tweets and likes where she stands and who she aligns with however even if she and others lack the courage to explicitly state their position, or be as obviously part of the Woke Wahhabis as Blackman, Smith, Nicholson and their unreasoning ilk.
Many of those who endorse the TRA agenda hope that in retaining “plausible deniability” about their actual regressive, misogynistic platform they can gain office before ordinary voters and party members realise they’ve been had. It’s the same kind of entryism which has allowed these ideological zealots to eat the party and its structures from within, to capture the NEC and unelected interest groups, and ensure a lucrative income stream and many sinecure positions from which to promote and entrench their a-scientific, faith based woo-woo.
Excellent cartoon, Chris.
… or not bother.
Whoever promises to separate politics from law, will get my vote.
Still I vote snp constituency who are you and why read this site if you can’t digest the mfacts, Vote SNP and they have Conned tits you Nancy voted
This made me laugh Chris. Well done!
It kinda reminds you of the time when the Labour party weighed their votes in the 50 & 60s. Look at what it gave the Scottish people.
False promises of Jam tomorrow. SNP are looking after your dietary needs, they are offering a carrot on a string.
Labour gave you rotten teeth with their offerings, SNPs offering gives you good eye sight.
I hope people eating all these carrots have their eyes opened now.
While Sturgeon is leader of the SNP I will not give a single vote to the SNP, if you’d asked me a year ago how I was going to vote I would have said there is nothing on this earth that would prevent me from voting for SNP. The way Sturgeon has been Judge, Jury and Executioner with regards to Mr Salmond has left a bad taste in my mouth and it angered me entirely to the point where NAW I will not be voting for the SNP at all, I would ashamed to vote for a party that all most put a man to jail for his entire live and not only that as far as the SNP is concerned the trail hasn’t finished.
Captain Yossarian @9:03
Well said sir. Too much litigation across the nation.
I was at the Oban for Independence Ground Rent discussion wtih Graeme Chapman and Kate Forbes last evening. Someone asked Forbes in the discussion why Scotgov don’t make an economic case for Indy as well as why they don’t produce better figures than GERS.
On GERS she said it was the best argument for indy (though lots have to have that one explained to them) and that therefore we don’t need an economic case for indy. She was patrician and smug about it. Whcih really got my goat.
So, you’re in a discussion with a GERS informed voter, you say GERS says how bad things are under Devolution and how much better they will be under indy because we will do things differently. What things and differently how? comes the reasonable response. Lack of Growth Commision anyone?
Business for Scotland and Commonweal have excellent resources on this but they are not Scotgov and Scotgov ignores them, disparages Commonweal. So they aren’t official policy.
This is the problem we have with the SNP. They don’t see the need for an answer, think it’s already answered and they think we’re thick for wanting one. In their minds they are too ‘sophisticated’ to see how ordinary folk think and approach matters and they won’t be told.
This is a major problem and perhaps explains why they have made no progress towards getting us ready for IndyRef2 let alone Independence.
Solidarity on the list for me – so far anyway as they’re committed to a plebiscite; constituency vote up for grabs but will go to anyone standing on the same ticket.
Somebody said the SNP were skint and struggling to fund their campaign. If they’ve spent the indyref2 cash and are STILL strapped for cash WTF have they been doing with it?
I can see the difficulty in voting SNP, but do we really want Douglas Ross as first minister…. .get a grip… Now we see what’s happening in the party we can surely work to sort it out.
197?
“ On GERS she said it was the best argument for indy (though lots have to have that one explained to them) and that therefore we don’t need an economic case for indy. She was patrician and smug about it. Whcih really got my goat.”
FFS
From the finance minister!
@Dave Beveridge 9:18am
I’ve heard the SNP have no money that’s bad management. My wife and I paid hundreds to these Independence funds and nothing to show for it other than Boris Johnston has a whopping majority and where out of the EU what happened to the people vote that Sturgeon just had to run down to London and canvas for.
Margaret tees you cannot reason with the deluded they have power and control the mechanism of law beliefing they are untouchable its a spiders Web of self serving and the worst of all are the silent who want indie but are willing to forsake their values for their own wealth SNP corrupt cowards
Not a single party opposing the covid hoax and the criminal lockdown that’s cost millions of jobs and untold misery.
‘Alex Salmond inquiry shows Nicola Sturgeon’s government is no longer subject to democratic checks and balances – Brian Wilson’
‘Imagine you stumbled upon a major scandal involving the Scottish government or one of its agencies? Who would you go to with confidence it would be properly investigated?’
From this morning’s Scotsman and this is our problem, isn’t it. Sturgeon, Swinney and Wolffe have turned Scotland into a Junta these past 6-years.
The lawyers now work exclusively for them. Anyone that displeases them, Alex Salmond for example, can expect to have his/her liberty put under threat.
Andrew Neil is on their case and although I don’t have a lot of time for Andrew Neil, he is doing us all a great favour is if washes us all clean from the current SNP.
I can tell you that our parliamentarians and legal profession have been in each other’s pockets for the past 6-years. Andrew Neil and Brian Wilson know that as do many of the rest of us.
It’s time to shine a light on it. I have confidence in Salmond to put an end to a few rotten political, civil-service and legal careers shortly.
100%Yes @ 9:27 am
My wife and I paid hundreds to these Independence funds
Sorry to hear that. 🙁 Maybe time you were visiting PC Plod. I gave them nothing as it was becoming obvious their talk was pie in the sky stuff.
@Margaret Tees,
Get a grip? We have a grip on reality. Five more unhindered years of crackpot legislation under a leader who has stripped the membership of any input. No thank you.
I have walked miles,spent thousands, and converted a lot of my neighbourhood to voting for Indy and the SNP.
They are beginning to have justifiable doubts.
Indy is not coming soon under Nicola.
We have Anne McL, gf of Graham Campbell, both on twitter yesterday promoting GC for the list post in Lothian,the one he voted himself top of, vote for me, he says, vote for him, she says.
AML says, he will fight for everyone, notice fight, not work.
Than in itself is a lie as he told us that he personally was fighting to route out transphobes.
Since there is no definition of transphobia, I’m not sure how that works.
He also said, he was going into battle the NEC, on behalf of Mridhul, the male, no GRC, who admitted lying to get a post in a RCC.
They are upfront about their troughing ambition. We’d be fools to vote for these charlarans.
AML, failed drama student, is of course bffs with Nicola, replaces QC, Joanna Cherry in the justice brief, you couldn’t make it up.
Kirsty B was on saying both votes SNP. She broke Code of Conduct re JC, outcome JC sacked, KB not even sanctioned AFAIK.
Good that Murrell has got a new job…… fiddling figures
I also wondered about the 197 … The original vote for a Scottish parliament was in 1970-something (1979, I think). And it was a hoax, since conditions were put which made getting the parliament virtually impossible.
Is that the reference? Is 2021 also a hoax? Especially in referendum terms? Vote for us ferrets, because we are promising Indyref2 in our manifesto.
(And just forget about the fact you’ll never get it, because we are putting conditions on it that will never be met. Our friend Boris will make sure of that.)
Sorry, folks, we did our best, but … Meanwhile, let’s get on with the rest of it; the real stuff; the not so pretty nitty gritty; the daily business … What;s that down there in the mall print on our manifesto … Oh Yeah (American: no more Scottish ‘Aye’) … Yeah, the Hate crime Bill … GRA … Yeah! We have to give the people what we promised them … Don’t we now?’
Yeah! … Yeah! … (No more ‘Yes’ either … Just ‘Yeah’!}
-Muscleguy-
Exactly. The argument in favour of gradualism and moderation is that you don’t alienate swing voters, which I agree with. But you don’t just assume that swing voters will come to you, you need to make the case to them. The attitude of “they all love Nicola so much that they will vote for us” has two flaws: a) putting all your eggs in one (shaky) basket, and b) a terribly convenient solution if you’re an egomaniac and her sycophants.
I’ll be spoiling my first vote for the first time ever,living in NE Fife. RF is never getting my vote. The polls all have NE Fife going to the SNP – I so hope they are wrong. List vote is up for grabs to ISP or AFI. I’m heartily sick of the smugness of the SNP – they seem to think they own our vote. Well from now on if they want my vote they are going to have to seriously earn it.
Carrots might help improve your eyesight but an overdose of vit A can make you seriously ill. Just about sums the current state of affairs.
@Margaret Tees
“I and other journalists are banned from telling you a lot of the truth which, believe me, is utterly shocking and which some very senior people in the Government and the party will continue to do everything they can to prevent the people from knowing that truth.”
Martin Hannan
He is a journalist at The National and so knows far more about what’s actually going-on than any of us.
The Scotsman this morning is complaining that the SNP want to see the free press wither away in Scotland.
I’m sure that Martin Hannan doesn’t use terms like ‘utterly shocking’ lightly and nor do the rest of us.
What has happened to Alex Salmond is utterly shocking and may well result in the closure of Holyrood.
The ferrets are fine wi me – if they’re running up and down the legs o the likes of Rennie, Galloway, Davidson, Forsyth, Baillie, Bowie.
Better still if they’re wearing their Great British kilts!
Bang on the money. Bravo Chris.
@Rick H Johnston – the ferrets have been up and down the legs of Alex Salmond, Mark Hirst and Craig Murray……that’s the problem eh, Rick?
They don’t wear Great British kilts. Do you know how much this has cost you?
Cancel culture club, guid yin. Church of the Poisoned Mind, indeed. 🙂
@ Dave Beveridge at 9:18 am
” WTF have they been doing with it?”
Legal fees for Murrell
Legal Fees for Smith
Questions over
paying Richard Tice for Smith’s stupidity?
Quite possibility of dubious accounting practices, at all levels
And as someone said to me “Briefs in the HQ”
Well here in the wilds I see Rhiannon has launched her latest attempt to get her nose in the trough at Holyrood by asking for votes to get her No 1 on the list. Having bombed on the selection vote for A and B she now wants to be considered for Highlands and Islands. Her fellow Glasgow councillor Mr Campbell is also trying to get a No 1 spot on the list in the Lothians. I wonder if they have ever considered the radical option of standing for the list in the area they currently live in and represent. As Rhiannon looks out her House of Bruar carrier bag to underline her credentials it is telling that candidates running against her are being endorsed by party members living in the region. I am sure we will be accused of bullying by the first minister shortly for pushing back against the chosen one. Still if by some jiggery pokery she does get the No1 list spot it will only boost ISP.
“May well result in the closure of holyrood”. Nah, will never happen, all those…wha’s like us, Scotland the brave, skirl o the pipes, nemo me impune lacessit. Will take to the streets in a million strong protest. Wont they?
Not a difficult choice at all unless you are a britnat or a useful idiot to the british state.
Didn’t take long for the Wings btl to spin the cartoon to “don’t vote SNP”.
Have known for a long time now Scotland will have to win her independence without Wings Over Scotland.
There’s stuff flying about a website for postal voting.
Looks like an official government website, but after you enter your details, it redirects you to the SNP website.
postalvote.scot
It was registered by the SNP. Scotsman & Times have the story.
Is this legal under Electoral Law, or one of these grey areas?
@Dakk,
Is it your turn to have the communal brain for an hour?
Think for yourself. You might enjoy it.
@Dakk – are you going to arrest Mr Wings too? Hold him in a concrete cell at Govan Police Station for 6-days? Is he an enemy of the Junta?
It doesn’t work, Dakk. People are laughing at the SNP, Police Scotland and the Lord Advocate. You have messed it all up, haven’t you?
Spot on Chris.
Though some seem to have missed your point, which is that like the lady in the cartoon, we have no choice.
I will be voting for the ferrets in the sack.
The fact that the ferrets are now actually fighting means there is a fighting chance the best ferret will win.
Spoling your ballot paper is a total abdication of responsibility. Vote SNP and then get Nicola and her clique out. Wingers spoiling their ballot papers could be just enough to give the Yoons control at Holyrood and end Scotland’s hopes for good.
This site has done a fantastic job of exposing the corruption, now we need to all stop pouting and throwing your toys out of the pram, folks, and do something constructive.
I was at the Oban Grassroots meeting. Muscleguy has completely misrepresented Kate Forbes.
– W
”
dakk says:
13 February, 2021 at 10:25 am
Not a difficult choice at all unless you are a britnat or a useful idiot to the british state.
Didn’t take long for the Wings btl to spin the cartoon to “don’t vote SNP”.
Have known for a long time now Scotland will have to win her independence without Wings Over Scotland. ”
Where to start – a vote for the SNP in May is a vote for Genderwoowoo and stasi hate crime. These roasters have never been told to shut up for indy . A massive defeat will set us back – but a win for sturgeon will not see independence any nearer.
Sturgeon and her NEC have not even discussed independence in 6 years. They have squandered a massive treasure chest (supposedly ring-fenced). And they have allowed westmonster to ride roughshod all over us Scots without a single fightback.
Sturgeon, blackford, daddy bear, humza useless , blackman ,the self -serving cllr graham are, in my and many others opinion, not worth voting for. This is not difficult to understand unless you’re deliberately not understanding.
Seems like Dakk is one of the few who gets the cartoon’s message.
Political satire is a little too subtle for some on here, apparently.
Spoiling your ballot paper is the act of a child. Grow a pair and vote Labour if you really want to ‘send a message’. Spoiled papers, no matter how erudite or amusing, go straight in the bin.
(Quite appropriate considering the bonfire BTL here is becoming)
A huge issue has been exposed largely thanks to Stu. The response? Fingers in ears, na na na, na, toys on floor.
I wonder what Angus MacNeil, Kenny Macaskill, Joanna Cherry, Neil Hanvey and the others prepared to stick their heads above the parapet will make of your ballot paper with a dick and balls drawn on it? I wonder what the new blood we voted onto the NEC will think? I am sure they will all be delighted with the maturity of your political response.
I don’t want to be conned again because of a blind belief in the integrity of those claiming to be independence seekers. Political parties should have written constitutions containing the principles and philosophies which govern their operation and which reflect current Scottish circumstances. As a minimum these should cover; Scotland’s written constitution, sovereignty, independence, currency, EU, WMDs, leaders and their removal, justice, anti-corruption, membership rights, use of funds, etc. No-one in the egalitarian new Scotland will be above the law. Some evidence of what is being done to fill the gap between aspiration and achievement might help establish good faith. ’Not the SNP’ isn’t enough.
Less than three months before an election, and after successive polls showing a majority for independence, it doesn’t look as if there are any people of probity in Scotland who are capable of leading the nation to statehood and beyond.
Too often Scottish independence seems to be a scam designed to provide an easy life for the deceitful, the mediocre and the incompetent. Pale, corrupt imitators will never compete with their experienced, colonising counterparts who have maintained the Union for over three hundred years.
They work for you?
GERS..
Talk of GERS drives me nuts, especially at the mishandling of dialogue surrounding it.
Here are some basic truths about GERS that need to be considered, before anyone starts getting into discussions about them.
1) When the figures work for you, don’t jump on the bandwagon.
Alex Salmond’s biggest mistake was validating GERS figures in 2012/13 because they worked in a positive manner for the Indy movement. Validate them once, thats it done – because when they don’t work in your favour you can’t then dismiss the figures as ‘UK propaganda’ without looking a prize numpty and being open to ridicule from Unionist Politicians who funnily enough, dominate news and media spaces.
It is the sole reason that 50% of Scots think an Independent Scotland will be bankrupt – GERS and the associated reporting of.
2) This week Michael Forsyth was on Question Time and came out with the classic line ‘ they’re your own figures (GERS)’
to Jeanne Freeman.
Now Jeanne Freeman batted back nicely about borrowing money etc etc. However, what she essentially did was validate Forsyths argument that Scotland would be in debt and would have to borrow and in doing so – that GERS are a valid set of figures.
Her reply should have been to discredit GERS entirely – this is what tax specialist Richard Murphy has been asking for years – ‘why do the Scottish Government keep validating GERS figures ?’
Kate Forbes is right – GERS are an argument for Independence but not the way she thinks.
They validate independence because they demonstrate the lengths Unionist politicians (both English and Scots) will go to run down, castigate, mock and ridicule Scottish people and the idea of Independence.
As Joanne Lamont said some years ago, ‘Scottish people are not genetically programmed to make political decisions’.
It is one of the most disgusting things said of Scots and one of the most telling, because it conflates biology with reason- thats what ‘genetics’ is, biology and chemistry.
The implication is that we, Scots, cannot be Independent because we lack the biological means to do so. We are deficient. The logical extension is that we are somehow lesser human beings, a different species because we, solely and uniquely cannot run our own affairs.
These are the hills to die on, not validating GERS by getting into an argument about them.
‘Independence is normal’ as the saying goes, the problem we have as Scots, is that we don’t know what normal means. We accept shit said about us from our own politicians and media that leaves the rest of the globe red faced in embarrassment for us.
It will not please the many but for Scotland the real choice is between a revolution, cultural, social, political and intellectual or the continuation of the current frustrating stasis.
Unionism, in its variety of overt and covert forms is not going lightly. History tells us that the Brits understand one thing, and that thing is not »legalism ». The Murrell brexit débâcle has proved that beyond doubt.
Margaret Tees @9:21
I can see the difficulty in voting SNP, but do we really want Douglas Ross as first minister … we can surely work to sort it out.
Sincerely hope so, but how exactly?
If an A.I lifeform had to impart the information would it be breaking the law. Say an army of tweetbots were to evolve and accidental spill the al0habeans.
Scots Renewables
“Vote SNP and then get Nicola and her clique out.”
I think you miss the basic premise of elections. Voting SNP is an endorsement of their leader and policies.
This is unacceptable to large amounts of independence supportors as well as anyone who believes in democracy and the rule of law.
If you and your fellow travellers hadnt spent the last year and a half wheeshting and had actually done something about the fatally wounded, criminal leadership, then
things might be different.
The SNP disgust me.
SNP 1 is still the only way to vote, not least because some higher up in the party don’t appear to want independence. We need to return a pro-indy majority because not doing that will simply send the message: Scotland is not interested in independence. That’s the absolute worst thing we could possibly do right now, because even if we have a million people out marching for indy, if democracy has said different, there is no legitimacy.
And don’t even for a second kid yourself Labour and the Lib Dems are *any* better on all the trans stuff, hate legislation etc – it will still go through and be used in the exact same way against the exact same opponents. That’s why voting seems to bloody pointless because they really are all the same, part of the same incestuous establishment.
Ideally, what we need is an opposition largely made up of other non-SNP independence movement people. I really hope someone is working to make that happen.
The main question is straighforward.
Since Scotland within the UK is poorer than all nearby small/medium sized northern European countries –
1a. Why would an independent Scotland not also be as wealthy as any of these countries?
Or
1b. Why is Scotland not as wealthy as any of these countries
In descending order of wealth using GDP US$ PPP per capita (IMF 2019) *
Switzerland
Ireland
Norway
Iceland
Denmark
Netherlands
Sweden
Austria
Finland
Belgium
UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
* The UK gini measure of inequality is also higher than any of these countries
So, remain poorer by staying in the UK with it’s long track record of decline or become independent and more like all our wealthier and more equal northern European neighbours? No brainer.
The voting choice would also be easy if there was an SNP leadership that was committed to independence. If, seems likely to be the key word when the time to vote comes along.
197?
Number of Scottish lawyers expected to go out of business in the near future?
Number of ring fenced £’s left available for the big push?
Weekly brasso requirements for Holyrood? (Big tin)
Muscleguy says:
It’s mental. Add Ricahrd Murphy as another as crucial resource ignored by the SNP.
There’s an intellectual void around the economics of independence in the SNP and the government that is deeply concerning. Persuade people of the economic argument and we win independence, but they aren’t even trying.
Dakk @ 10.25am.
I take my information from many sources not just Wings that allows me to make decisions on what I intend to do with my vote. I have already emailed my MSP and informed them that the SNP will not be getting my vote and if the rest of the household are being truthful they are not getting theirs either, as my MSP isn’t standing for re-election then I suspect they don’t really care.
Then comes the hard part for me, I will look at the list vote and make a decision based on who I think might further the Independence cause but do I vote for anyone on the constituency vote. That will be hard but Sturgeon and Swinney have to go or Independence will never happen under their watch.
Davie Oga says:
13 February, 2021 at 11:01 am
Scots Renewables
“Vote SNP and then get Nicola and her clique out.”
I think you miss the basic premise of elections. Voting SNP is an endorsement of their leader and policies.
This is unacceptable to large amounts of independence supportors as well as anyone who believes in democracy and the rule of law.
If you and your fellow travellers hadnt spent the last year and a half wheeshting and had actually done something about the fatally wounded, criminal leadership, then
things might be different.
The SNP disgust me.
Did you participate in the NEC elections? Did you go to branch meeting, engage with SNP members? What have you done to effect change within the party?
You are the wheeshter, not me. You have done nothing except get a petted lip as far as I can see. You are throwing the towel in and portraying is as virtue signalling.
The fat lady is looking out her throat spray.
I posted this on an earlier thread but it is relevant re Gers.
In over a hundred and fifty years of rule in India the British attributed a defecit to India every single year.
British wealth here in the UK grew by Billions of pounds from that same country.
Thats how GERS works.
Spot on Chris, it looks like the ferrets will get my constituency vote but not my list vote, that will go to AFI or ISP.
Meanwhile as Alyn Smith and Stewart McDonald, SNP MP’s do Westminster’s bidding for them by constantly attacking the likes of Russia, Iran, and China, another SNP MP has jumped on the “lets reform Westminster bandwagon” instead of concentrating on Scotland’s needs this time Tommy Sheppard, wants to try and reform Westminster’s voting system.
To be honest I couldn’t give a toss about Westminster’s voting system, and I’m sure many others feel the same, what matters is dissolving this shit union.
ScotsRenewables is right.
What’s the point of spoiling your ballot? Writing silly words on the paper means nothing.Nobody looks at spoiled ballots unless there is a recount.
It is an abdication of responsibility, as he says.
The cartoon is clear. You should vote for the ferrets in the sack. Holding your nose if necessary. The result of everyone spoiling their ballots would let the Unionists win and that seems to be what some people are encouraging.
I am aware that the SNP is is a very bad place right now but the SNP is NOT the Yes movement. It is however the ONLY route to independence and can be reformed root and branch. More likely it will wither away and be replaced by convention parties of the left and right but that can’t happen until we are independent.
The list vote is different. If the ISP can raise their profile with a credible campaign and a strong leader then I will vote for them. currently they’re unknown to the general public.
The sight of hundreds of folk queuing in Glasgow last Monday in the snow for a bowl of soup, kids and all, really hits home, when you think of the hundreds of millions the COPFS have wasted on malice laced prosecutions.
It doesn’t help that the Scottish government wants to keep us tied into this union which has and still is draining Scotland of its wealth.
Our war with England never really ended, it just changed to more of a propaganda war rather than a physical one, but our assets still head South of the border, and will continue to do so until this union is broken.
If dominion doing the counting, it might not matter anyway.
Not for nothing was it once deemed important to write a universal declaration of human rights and the nuremberg code.
@Scots Renewables,
Just what success has your attendance achieved?
Standing Orders changed on the hoof.
New NEC as bad as the last.
Treasurer (new) still refusing to disclose woven funds locatikn.
Membership sidelined for Central control
A leadership embroiled in scandal daily.
Candidates allowed to self identify as BAME or disabled to get no 1 spot on list.
Just what do you think you achieved ?Because if thats the sum total of what you and others managed with your time God hell us.
Ian @ 11.04
The most significant country on that list is Ireland. Formerly one of the poorest countries in Europe. Now with the support of the EU the second wealthiest.
Smaller population than Scotland. Less natural resources but Dublin is now the most booming city in the EU. English speaking and a bridge to America and Canada.
That could have been Scotland but for the fearties of 2014.
I’m afraid I will NOT be voting for the SNP at this or any other election until they’ve returned to the party they were 6/7 years ago. It’s entirely their choice, they have to earn my vote.
I won’t vote for a unionist party or Green [gender woo woo] and doubt any new party will stand for Stirling constituency.
So no constituency vote from me, I’ve joined ISP and will vote for them on the list or failing them any other independence mandated party standing for Mid Scotland and Fife.
@Republicofscotland – Indeed, a great deal of money has been squandered by Scotgov on mallicious prosecutions and these costs will keep on rising in the months and years ahead.
What is more concerning is the amount of money Scotgov is currently spending on gagging our newspapers and preventing them from lifting the lid on what goes-on at Holyrood.
EC.
I will be doing the same in Stirling.
@Fireproofjim,
Im still laughing at that. KLets all vkte for ferrets in a sack but wait till the ISP prove themselves to be marginally better than ferrets in a sack.
You gotta love that kind of thinking.
Plenty of iffy characters coming out of the woodwork on this thread threatening to not vote for the SNP or preferring to spoil their ballot papers.
Some are concerned trolls others are I suppose are disillusioned with the SNP and rightly so, however, what benefit to the indy cause would there be in allowing the next placed party the Tories into power. The Brit Nat media would hail it as a sign that Scotland doesn’t want independence, and we’d have years of Tory cuts orchestrated from Westminster.
No as difficult and unpleasant as it might be voting SNP on your constituency vote is really the only way to go.
McDuff Carry on ………. or should that be Carry on McDuff?
Lots of good ex SNP members in Stirling!
Bob Mack
OK laughing Bob.
Tell us how everybody spoiling their ballots will bring us closer to independence.
No votes SNP.
Learn from our history.
The massacre of Glen Coe happened on this day in 1692.
It happened in pre-Union Scotland at the hands of the corrupt servants of the UK Crown.
Scotland will never be truly independent or free from the most evil corruption as long as it is subject to the UK Crown. So, a separate parliament is not enough.
The SNP’s electoral success in The Scottish Parliament has been based on using the referendum strategy to pick up unionist votes while dangling the independence carrot to keep core supporters inside.
Given that a percentage of the core vote will not vote SNP under the current leadership and the increasing dependence on soft no’s, I fully expect the SNP to soft peddle independence on their way to disaster in the upcoming election.
A party focused on independence would have removed Sturgeon when The Judicial Review blew up in their faces.
A party focused on independence would not collaborate with current/former MI6 officers to eliminate political threats
A party focused on independence would not pursue divisive, extremist policies that are damaging for society as a whole.
The SNP’s focus is on power and control, not liberation.
If The USA used a Von D’Hondt, list, electoral system in the 1970’s, Jim Jones would have never moved to Guyana.
Do you actually believe in your heart that Nicola will have an Indyref before the next General Election?
Im open for a substantial bet on that to any takers.
Set your stakes.
ScotsRenewables says:
13 February, 2021 at 10:35 am
“Spoiling your ballot paper is a total abdication of responsibility.”
So why do countries, where voting is compulsory, give the choice of “None of the above”?
Maybe they recognise that there are people who put principles before politics and won’t just vote for the lesser of evils when there is no goodness for which to vote.
The interesting thing about the way the SNP have been taken over in the past few years is that – while independence may be a real threat – the SNP is far from the only organisation with the same kind of problems. Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens have been similarly co-opted and split by the trans issue. So the focus on climate change, social justice, poverty etc has disappeared there just as much as independence has for the SNP.
Similarly, for anyone not aware of it, it’s worth following the Alison Bailey court case against Stonewall. Another organisation which has been completely hollowed out to a point where it’s no longer interested in LGB and in fact finds lesbianism especially “transphobic”. They, and the hold they have over large employers, appear to be at the heart of a huge amount of these issues. There is something much bigger going on than just the SNP and independence here, and I think the indy movement is having to navigate through that as well, not least because the SNP is in government.
Folk asking how not voting SNP will move us closer to independence. How will we move closer if we do?
Daftest one I’ve seen elsewhere is that EVERY Yes voter should join the SNP to prove that the desire is there. So, we all join, hand over our monthly subs, be just as distanced from the leadership as we are now and then… what exactly? GRA, HCB, ostracise anyone seen as a threat, attempt to jail opponents, etc.? Not for me thanks.
Labour thought they owned the working class vote. Changed days for them. The SNP will maybe find out that they don’t own the Indy vote.
Dave Beveridge says:
13 February, 2021 at 11:46 am
100% this
Bob Mack,
Sturgeon will probably not facilitate a referendum.
Voting SNP is not a vote for Sturgeon. She will be removed shortly.
My question for you. How will allowing Unionists to gain control of Holyrood facilitate independence?
– W
@ScotsRenewables 10:35 am
‘Vote SNP and then get Nicola and her clique out.’
Say we all vote SNP. How would we go about getting Nicola and her clique out?
ScotsRenewables at 10:46 am
‘Spoiling your ballot paper is the act of a child. Grow a pair and vote Labour if you really want to ‘send a message’.
I wouldn’t have put it quite like that, but the essence of what you say is correct. By not voting or spoiling, you are sitting on the fence and leaving the decision to others. If, for example, SNP currently hold the seat, do you want them to retain? Quite a dilemma for many.
Whatever happens over the coming days and weeks, one thing is surely clear: SNP is finished as ‘the’ path to independence. Like your first love, SNP belongs to someone else now. And like wood rot, if you cannot identify and remove all the rotten parts, it must be replaced.
The forces that have infiltrated our parliament and institutions is a wake-up call we cannot ignore. But do not despair just yet. There will be a rallying call that will channel the energy and passion of long-suffering Indy supporters. I still believe that AS is holding his fire for good reason and has much to offer. He knows we are hurting, and though the hour is late, I believe he will provide the guidance that will point us all in the right direction.
Re all those folk queuing for the foodbank last monday in glasgow, i wonder how many of them voted no or could even be bothered to vote in sep 2014.
Just ask your prospective SNP candidate to summarise the steps taken towards independence in the last 4 years: eg research and policy in economics and business, which areas would benefit, which might need help; education policy in an independent country; constitutional requirements, separation of powers, checks and balances etc; transitional arrangements, how long, details etc.
Anything they have done to further their supposed raison d’etre, and demonstrate how they have thought through the complexities, which will reassure waverers. The vision thing.
And of course, a party serious about such nuts and bolts will be open to all of a similar persuasion, accepting ideas and input across the spectrum, showing how a broad front of energetic people and ideas is ready and waiting.
I might have had a dream, but isn’t that their job?
Or did I have a nightmare where the governing party has done nothing, resents and rejects advice and debate, and spends more time attacking its enemies including those inside its own party, and its only interest is in keeping its executive in their positions of absolute power, and is offering more of the same monarchy with its courtiers?
Boaby says:
13 February, 2021 at 11:53 am
Re all those folk queuing for the foodbank last monday in glasgow, i wonder how many of them voted no or could even be bothered to vote in sep 2014.
They were homeless, Boaby.
Bob Mack says:
13 February, 2021 at 11:38 am
“Do you actually believe in your heart that Nicola will have an Indyref before the next General Election?”
Odds have shortend on no referendum before 2025. Now odds on favourite @1.99, down from 2.3 a few months ago. 13% drop.
People who are willing to put their money where their mouth is say Sturgeon’s SNP are talkers not walkers.
Fireproof Jim
‘What’s the point of spoiling your ballot? Writing silly words on the paper means nothing.Nobody looks at spoiled ballots unless there is a recount.
It is an abdication of responsibility, as he says.’
If you have considered all the options and decide that you cannot in good conscience vote for anyone, then spoil your ballot, it is absolutely your right.
Don’t listen to the fascists folks
@Cath,
That holds no water. The SNP have consistently taken advice from the likes of Stonewall whilst sidelining womens interest groups intentionally . Mhairi Black is allowed to spit vitriol at those who object as did Blackman and others.
They gave Cherry a hard time and ignored completely the venom she received from the younger factions in the party.
No special video for her.
Nicola is compromised. Unable to change her view and route
Enough.
Looks like Angus ‘Booby Prize’ Robertson is spouting the same old both votes SNP pish. This might work in the Borders or Orkney and Shetland Isles where Unionists rule the roost.
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Voting ISP or AFI would make much more sense on the list vote in most areas.
The horns of this particular dilemma have been honed to needle-point acuteness .
Vote – through gritted teeth – SNP ( at least 1 ) and get more ( possibly MUCH more ) of the same inert flannel + GenWoo n HCB society destroying insanity
Deny SNP any vote – Get the Planet of the Apes extra Dross as FM + possible extinction of any hope of Independence for the foreseeable , possibly ever .
I fear the choice is that stark my friends .
Personally , the latter is too horrible to contemplate , so , I will * probably * chose the former . Use the current goodwill Covid has granted NS to prevent a Unionist takeover of Holyrood and the very next day exert maximum pressure to remove her and her acolytes . Assuming she hasn’t been removed before then of course .
I see no other course open to us .
Republicofscotland
Do you really believe a vote for the SNP under Sturgeon and Swinney are going to advance Independence? They have had years to do it and in my view failed miserably. Give Sturgeon a majority and she claims that people are happy with what she is doing, if the SNP ends up as the largest party and can rely on the Greens for a majority then we can expect more of the same as is currently happening.
I can’t help feeling that Baillie and co are going a bit easy at the Inquiry as I believe there is enough to sink the SNP if everything came out and it was carried by the MSM. Do the Unionist parties want to take the reins in 2021? I suspect not as that would certainly light the touch paper to the next election being for Independance.
Chris
You missed oot the most important option for Yessers!
– Plebiscite Election on Independence Parties – Solidarity etc – (Regional List vote)
– Declare Independence if a national majority in favour
– Take that national majority to the UN for recognition
https://solidarity.scot/snp-hierarchys-11-point-plan-is-doomed-to-fail/
We need independence candidates to stand against the independence lite, rotten and corrupt SNP candidates.
That together with a big vote for an ISP type list party will give us the biggest number of MSPs committed to independence. Our opportunity is now. Do not let Sturgeon ruin it.
Vote Real SNP, or appropriate alternative in constituency and ISP in List vote. Voting for the current SNP configuration is a waste of a vote and will lose us the opportunity.
Let’s get rid of the troughers and get the majority we need.
The ISP needs some big name candidates / defections to make an impact and have some leverage. They aren’t registering in the polls.
A lot can change quickly, but time is running out.
The SNP have consistently taken advice from the likes of Stonewall whilst sidelining womens interest groups intentionally .
Yes. The point is so has every organisation, and it’s a large part of the silencing agenda. I don’t quite understand what’s going on or why, but it is much bigger than just the SNP.
Have the rules on doubtful ballots changed in the last couple of decades? Some on here are suggesting they simply get ignored or are only looked at in a recount. My experience is that those which clearly express no preference are put to one side, reviewed by the Returning Officer and, in terms of counting, discarded.
It is the doubtful votes that get reviewed by the Returning Officer in front of the candidates and their count agents. So if you can make your vote doubtful and write a message (I’m thinking “ex-SNP. Independence Now”) it gets seen by the candidates. I will leave others, with more current knowledge of how doubtful votes are handled in practice, to comment on the specifics.
This approach works best if there are significant numbers of spoilt ballots and, perhaps, a loss of a few SNP seats as a result. Preferably in seats where the SNP candidate does not subscribe to the aims of the party as stated in its constitution (both aims – you don’t get to pick and choose).
I have to wonder about the motives of those saying a spoilt paper will be ignored. Are they bring mischievous? Or maybe they simply believe that the SNP is a pro-independence party.
Decapitation.
Can Swinney and Sturgeon be removed without burning down the house?
Swinney’s majority is shakey. A couple of thousand serious nose holding votes to Murdo Fraser and “Honest” John is gone.
Sarwar is running in Glasgow Southside. Will he have a significant enough personal vote to threaten Sturgeon at all?
Swinney can be removed with a bit of tactical voting. Can Sturgeon?
WON’T SOME INDEPENDENCE/PLEBISITE PARTY STAND A CANDIDATE IN STIRLING? Please we can crowdfund your £500.
“ Sarwar is running in Glasgow Southside. Will he have a significant enough personal vote to threaten Sturgeon at all?”
Is this intended seriously?
Skip NC
The rules for ballot papers are clear. You may only put a cross against the name of your candidate. Anything written on the paper will invalidate the vote.
These papers are put aside unless there is a recount when the returning officer and the candidates will review them. The returning officer has the final decision.
Therefore there is no point in writing your opinion on the paper as it is highly unlikely anyone will see it.
It is of course your right to spoil your ballot if you wish but it’s a pointless exercise.
“How will allowing Unionists to gain control of Holyrood facilitate independence?”
Forgive me, but I think that is a bit misleading. The unionists are ALREADY in control of Holyrood and have been since 2016. If something has been patently clear in the last 6 years is that Sturgeon, Swinney, Russell and Murrell are not the pro independence individuals they purported to be, and neither are others like Blackford, Blackman, Smith or Oswald to name a few.
Nobody who puts this genderwoowoo unpopular and divisive nonsense before the cause of independence can ever be taken seriously as a pro independence candidate.
Nobody who clings to the imperialistic foreign policy of Westminster can be taken seriously as a pro independence candidate.
Nobody who openly ignores legal advice and rush to hijack the list seats and demands a particular type of “self-identified” candidates can ever be taken seriously as a pro independence candidate.
Nobody who looks the other way while an SNP government and executive takes part in a costly and lengthy conspiracy to push out of politics the best leader the SNP has ever had, can be taken seriously as a pro-independence candidate.
The SNP is now just another party of the British state in Scotland. Under Sturgeon and failing that, under their new puppet in waiting, the SNP will not deliver, because it has been dismantled and refurbished precisely to avoid delivering independence at all costs.
All what we see here, and have seen for quite some time, is a fight for control of the party to stop it including in their manifesto the termination of the union as a mandate, to stop the election becoming a plebiscite.
So Fabiani’s Farce will continue to run down the clock, COPFS will continue with its crown agents circling the wagons to suppress evidence, agencies subsidised by STurgeon’s government will continue to be used as mouthpieces for the accusers to abuse their anonymity to smear Mr Salmond, the MSM press will rush to suppress any implication of the british state in the conspiracy to avoid boosting the Yes numbers and Sturgeon will ride over the ministerial code breaches, over the malicious prosecutions, over all the corruption and more because she has the backing of the British state for as long as she stops the election becoming a plebiscite.
what difference will it make to have an openly unionist party in control?
One:
It will remove all the shielding the SNP has been doing to stop exposing the no voters to the real consequences of England tory rule.
I am of the opinion that due to the political differences between Scotland and England, without this SNP shielding of the most toxic policies from Westminster, the UK would be ungovernable as a unitary state with a centralised government.
Devolution is therefore neither a freebie nor an inconvenience to the British state. It is a much needed illusion of autonomy in which the british state relies to be able to pretend the UK can be governed as a unitary state without no voters seeing what they voted for and the union coming to an end.
Take the SNP out of the way, take the shield away and the charade of the union will come tumbling down. The no voters will be facing what they really voted for and it won’t be pretty. Then watch the UK parties in Scotland rushing to scramble and depart as much as possible from their counterparts in England in order to look “autonomous” and be seen as not supporting their main party’s most toxic policies. That will destroy the credibility those parties in Scotland have left.
It is, in my opinion, the worse possible scenario for the British state. A n
That will give us 3 years to prepare for a plebiscitary election during GE2024, by having in place a real pro indy party.
Alternatively, we could vote for and give as many seats as possible to pro indy parties now that are prepared to put a mandate to dissolve the union in their manifesto.
How many are there that are prepared to do that instead of simply acting as boosters of the SNP by the back door so it can continue fooling us for another 5 years with a promise of a referendum they never intend to deliver?
Anyone else know -Peter Murrell worked for “a spell as a press officer for the Church of Scotland”
https://archive.is/MPClR
The same info appeared Monday, 8th February 2021, in an article in the Scotsman https://archive.is/9XPM5 and then yesterday in the Dail Mail https://archive.is/Bm0z7
How strange this info, has never found its way to the public forum before now.
The time to decide what you’re doing with your vote is when you’re standing in the voting booth.
Until then, I think it wise to stand your ground and force the SNP to address the stupidity of the voting dilemma which the SNP is itself creating. Stop it with the fkg lunacy and hubris.
Ditch Sturgeon and Co, ditch the Wokeratti, boot GRA and Hate Crime Bill into the long grass, and make the May Elections a Plebiscite of Independence, and we might yet have something worth voting for, which even this late in the day can still save Scotland from the catastrophic legacy of Sturgeon’s incompetence, vindictiveness, and/or corruption.
Plough on regardless SNP, and all bets are off, and the SNP is buying their ticket to the obscurity sin-bin, beside Labour.
@Alf Baird 11.59am
Supportive as I am of a plebiscitary election for #HR2021 it has zero prospect of happening unless the rank and file membership stage a palace coup and get rid of the Sturgeonistas, gradualists, Growth Commission etiolated nationalists and woke Wahhabis.
Much as I’d live that to happen there’s about as much chance of that as there is of Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar becoming First Minister.
So what’s the Plan B? The Scottish Greens, RISE/SSP and ISP aren’t going to deliver a plebiscitary election without the SNP being onside, so we’re betting the independence farm on the (apparently unlikely) prospect of SNP members growing a pair?
Good luck with that!
This once wonderful site appears to have been hijacked by trolls, secret unionists, agents provocateurs, anti-vaxers and an alarming number of intolerant bigots. Who would have believed it possible that someone could come on this site and advocate getting Murdo Fraser elected? Anti-independence forces must be creaming themselves reading these comments.
Dave Oga @ 12.17
Was it not the case previously that the likes of Sturgeon and Swinney would also be at the top of the list just in case they were booted out in the constituency vote. Has the recent NEC vote given Swinney sleepless nights if he is at risk of targeted voting?
Hatuey says:
13 February, 2021 at 12:28 pm
“ Sarwar is running in Glasgow Southside. Will he have a significant enough personal vote to threaten Sturgeon at all?”
Is this intended seriously?”
Aye it is. She has a 7000 majority against a no name candidate. Say Sarwar has a couple of thousand vote boost for being the local boy made good. 2500 switch on a anti inept lying criminal tactical vote and she is in trouble. Difficult but not impossible.
If the Morrells and their clique are still in power on election day, I will abstain on the Constituancy vote = None of the above.
I do hope that the ISP and AFI select suitable candidates to provide me with a choice on the List vote.
And, my fingers are crossed that the Spectator and Andra Neil finish off the Morrells before the election!
Andra Neil to the rescue FFS!
tridentitycrisis says:
13 February, 2021 at 12:39 pm
And by whom would you say the SNP have been hijacked? They certainly don’t appear to be a party of independence any longer.
Futrets!
@Fireproofjim
While it is recommended that the voter places only a single X on the ballot paper, a paper can only be rejected if:
a) there is no clear preference expressed for one of the candidates, or,
b) there is a mark which could identify the voter, or,
c) the ballot paper has been improperly issued (technically known as lacking the official mark)
Every single paper that is deemed by the tellers to be doubtful goes for adjudication by the Returning Officer. This always happens as the final step before the draft result is presented to candidates, recount or not.
A voter can actually write whatever they like on the ballot paper. As long as the rules above are satisfied it will be counted as valid.
For example, if you feel you have to vote SNP in spite of the current leadership, you could put your X [even a smiley face will work :-)] next to the SNP candidate and write something like ‘For Indy not Sturgeon’ across the top of it.
It is likely this paper would go to adjudication but it WILL still be counted as an SNP vote and the SNP candidate would know very well that the vote was not an endorsement of the leadership.
I have done dozens of adjudications in my time with several Returning Officers and their deputies. I have seen all kinds of ballot papers being accepted, including some with extremely offensive messages [or drawings!] on them.
Since when have independent minded people stated in droves that they are not going to vote SNP, or leave the party in such numbers? Has this ever really happened on this scale before in all of the SNP’s history?
Nah.
Well, maybe it’s a generational ‘thang’ then and it really is quite something. Maybe the older crusties (like me) have just had it. Our visceral feelings toward the political class are all there is left as there’s really no point in debating an oligarchy. There is no longer any political home for us and so all we can do is lend our votes to the hopefully emergent non-ideological ISP.
Funnily enough, the place I probably feel most at home in politically is Wings Over Scotland where there is a distinct absence of the smell of shite not to mention corruption.
Davie, you are dramatically underestimating Sarwar’s lack of appeal. Just about anyone other than him and I’d happily indulge the possibility.
I was hoping Galloway would go for it.
Of course, all of this presumes she will still be around and stand.
So you would cast your ballot for a morally corrupt and vindictive leadership of a party that has wasted your money and time, has taken your dreams and tossed them aside in order to line their own pockets and feed their own ego’s .This you reason is the better evil to vote for in the hope that they understand your not endorsing their actions and policy’s by rebelling against them on the list vote
In their time in power they have not in any recognisable way
Improved the lot of the average person
Laid out a viable economic plan for indie Scotland
Addressed the path to independence
Built up Scotland’s international support for independence
Listened to the peoples will on domestic matters
They have though carried out their own agendas and strangled the free press whilst solidifying their grip by colluding with the legal establishment to suppress opposition
If they do gain indie it will be a free and independent country as long as you obey the new ruling class dictatorship
Well done the deluded SNP stalwarts I know it’s hard to admit you been conned but conned you have been the SNP is not what you believed it should be
Big questions should be asked as to why Sturgeon is not appearing at the Inquiry on Tuesday, as scheduled. But nobody is asking.
I’ve been watching her head home the point that she’s desperate to give evidence to the committee for months. What happened? Is it a condition that she must appear after Salmond?
They say the Inquiry is now split along party lines but Wightman isn’t in the party – not yet anyway. It’s split along corruption lines, not party lines.
Everything they touch turns to corrupt.
Do we believe, should needs occur numbers wise, that SNP would cosy up with ISP?
Im not too sure that would be their first move tbh
Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Fool me thrice ????
You’re kidding me aren’t you, never heard Albert Einstein’s quote “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Well this lady ain’t nuts, no change to the hierarchy, retain GRA and HCB = no vote. Ditch the Murrells.
Andy Ellis @ 12.37
If one or more of the 6 pro-indy parties include a plebiscite election in their manifesto then all serious independence supporters must surely vote for that.
All a compromised SNP are offering is more gravy train colonialism and oppressive laws comin doon the track for the ‘Viet Cong’.
You can vote how you want, for Willie Rennie’s pairty even. That’s who most St. Andrews academics go for, isn’t it?
Hatuey says:
13 February, 2021 at 1:11 pm
Big questions should be asked as to why Sturgeon is not appearing at the Inquiry on Tuesday, as scheduled.
Saw that answered yesterday somewhere. The answer is that it’s she who has questions to answer re her government, not Alex. Therefore she will appear to ANSWER only AFTER everyone has submitted evidence.
A small party that puts forward the idea of independence and promotes that idea as a political proposition is formed. Years pass. The election of a few highly motivated charismatic individuals means they gain traction as they put their case against the inherent unfairness of the Westminster set up.
Socialist principles seem at odds with their tweedy socially conservative history but then a few firebrands change that and slowly Scotland sees the possibility of a better future. But when they get their chance to realise it, they bottle it in favour of a mythical status quo and the promise of a rose garden in the future.
The party that has been in power and has taken its electorate for granted loses swathes of voters and support overnight. Where do they go next? The liggers and a new group, identity protesters, see a vehicle to hitch their wagon too. Yes, we want Independence too (whatever that is) they say and so it begins.
Bad faith players inveigle themselves in the party machine, they make themselves invaluable in campaigns and loud in the local party. They take over the standing orders, procedures, NEC and they start to change the rules to keep the old guard out – ‘Your politics are discriminatory, anything you say is discriminatory’ and so the party is locked into paralysis thinking they are dependent on them. They appear to take over social and traditional media and are facilitated in this by the new professional walking lanyards who see only a career in a successful party – they don’t really care what they stand for.
Meanwhile, an increasing number of the voting public have come to the conclusion they want the question of independence revisited but the party, elected on that as their primary purpose and promise, say ‘Now is not the time but if you want Independence you really have to vote for us…’
Oh, and they are corrupt.
Given the demographics of Glasgow Southside, I do not think it in any way impossible that Sarwar can beat her.
Yeah… vote for Nicola, that’ll teach her. (facepalm)
It was giving the SNP a political monopoly that has lead to this precise sorry mess.
Would have been ok had we had an honest, high integrity FM in charge but we had the exact opposite.
Mia @ 12:29
“How will allowing Unionists to gain control of Holyrood facilitate independence?”
Yes, it seems to have passed some people by that Holyrood and the so-called ‘Scottish Government’ have always been and are still very much UK controlled institutions run by senior civil servants sent by Whitehall.
Its called a colonial administration folks, which is usually the reason ‘a people’ seek independence.
@Alf Baird 12.37pm
I’m sure *some* serious independence supporters will vote for parties which pledge to treat #HR2021 as plebiscitary. The point however is that it won’t matter unless the SNP suddenly undergoes a Damascene conversion to that policy and accepts it prior to the vote, or the “rank and file” membership stage a coup to eject the current leadership. Neither is looking at all likely in my view, but I’ll happily eat my words if it happens before May.
It won’t matter if ALL the other pro-indy parties sign up to a commitment to make #HR2021 elections plebiscitary, as without the SNP they will only represent a minority of voters, so it wouldn’t be possible to convince the international community that >50% supported independence.
I’ve no idea who St Andrew’s academics vote for: perhaps you should ask them? I suspect most are probably wishy-washy liberals and suspect only a minority would be pro-indy.
As I’m in Edinburgh central I’ll probably vote ISP on the list and spoil my ballot for the constituency. There’s no way I’m voting for Robertson or a Scottish Green if they stand for the constituency again.
I’d like to see the SNP denied a majority due to an upsurge in support for the ISP in particular, but if other pro-indy minor parties gain seats that would also be a plus (not the misogynistic roasters in the Scottish Greens tho’!).
Sadly I fear the broader movement has lost the chance to effect real change. Much as I’d love to see the Sturgeonistas crash and burn, I fear they are oleaginous enough to survive. If and when that happens, we have another 5 years to prepare the ground for a “real” independence party. I suspect in that scenario nothing else will do. The gradualist ultras aren’t going to disappear, even if Sturgeon and Murrell are forced to fall on their swords: they’ll carry on their “trust us we’ve got this”, “just one more mandate” “steady, steady…eyes on the prize” bullshit for another 5 years until enough pro-indy voters reralise they’ve been had.
Why anyone on here would vote for anything other than a vocal, 100% committed independence party, is completely beyond me.
Whether to run the risk of indirectly helping the Tories or endorsing criminality—choices, choices.
This is the only place people are saying they will not vote SNP.
Just sayin’
ScotsRenewables says:
13 February, 2021 at 2:04 pm
“This is the only place people are saying they will not vote SNP.
Just sayin’”
Really? Then that’s fantastic for you guys. I’m sure you’ll get a big thumping majority. 129 seats.
The only problem is that 129 SNP seats will not deliver independence.
ScotsRenewables@ 2:04pm
Try and get out more, out in the real world there are a lot more people saying they will not vote for the SNP. Every week as more and more find out about what has been going on there is a growing anger at Sturgeon.
@ John Martini at 11.55
They are homeless now – that doesn’t mean they were homeless in 2014!
Also, even if they were, there is a mechanism for registering to vote:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/people-no-fixed-address
This article, from the BBC, details the efforts that were made in 2014 to register the homeless: https://archive.fo/wip/0ZlPy
SN
That’s because we want independence.
Ah, we are all united in purpose, Chris, if only the SNP would tell us they have the same ideal in mind.
Your essential weekend reading, another forgotten Scot:
“Dr William Gordon Stables”: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-pvj
Baxter,
The anger is at Sturgeon.
Leaders come and go. Sturgeon is not the SNP.
Try getting out of the echo chamber. What on earth are you hoping to achieve?
… or are you one of the Fochabers Baxters lol
Baxter @11.58pm
Sturgeon and Swinney are not the SNP, leaders come and go, and as the SNP are still the most likely party to help dissolve this horrendous union, the party should be reelected.
Josef Ó Luain says:
13 February, 2021 at 1:50 pm
“Why anyone on here would vote for anything other than a vocal, 100% committed independence party, is completely beyond me.”
Can yo point me in the direction of one please?
ScotsRenewables says:
13 February, 2021 at 2:04 pm
“This is the only place people are saying they will not vote SNP.”
You mean the only place on the internet?
Meanwhile, in real life…
Isn’t this what Communism was accused of? Does that mean that it’s Putin who is behind the whole trans thing? https://www.womenarehuman.com/the-family-unit-is-transphobic-and-must-be-abolished-transgender-activist-says/
@Scots Renewables
Of course Sturgeon, Murrell and the unsavoury cabal surrounding them are not the SNP, any more than they are the broader indy movement. They are however the ones directing the tiller of SS Independence.
The problem we now have is that while there are obviously many rank and file members who are unhappy at recent events (inter alia: lack of progress on #indyref2/ S30 Order/Plan B, l’affaire Salmond and the input of Sturgeon and her closest associates, GRA, HCB, throwing Joanna Cherry under the TRA bus, failing to address woke Wahhabi entryism and extremism, milquetoast Charlotte Street Partners nationalism….doubtless others can add to the list…..?) they have shown little or no appetite to put the SNP’s house in order.
The St Andrew’s Day massacre of the “old” NEC was much trumpeted, but appears to have achieved very little in practice. Any reasonable person listening to Joanna Cherry’s interview with Mandy Rhodes of Holyrood Magazine ought to be horrified at what they heard. The SNP has lost its moral compass.
The fact it enjoys a commanding position in the polls is more a function of the execrable state of the opposition than it is a sign of approbation from the mass of voters.
Perhaps the question you should be answering is what you hope an SNP victory will achieve: because it certainly isn’t going to be a referendum. What happens then? Faith based protestations that Boris will just give in to the overwhelming moral force of yet another mandate don’t amount to an actual plan.
So give it your best shot: we’re all ears. Explain our path to the sunny uplands of independence before Holyrood 2026 elections.
We are all disappointed, deluded and disorientated
but recognise not voting or spoiling a vote strengthens
the strangulating hands of the Unionist parties.
I’d vote for anything that got me independence and removed
the insidious cancer that is the Westminster parties.
First independence then clear out our own woke midden.
I’m reading a U.K. media article that just sums up
the England Elite and superior attitude between them
and their colonies.
They write about the 6 nations rugby tournament.
England and Wales has the most tournament wins.
But England has the lesser number of shared wins,
so they are obviously the best despite Wales having
about a 20th of their population.
Top scoring player is Irish, so no need to tell you his points tally.
The highest number of points in one game was by an Englishman so points revealed.
England are favourites to win the current tournament.
Ferrets in a sack having a hissy fit ! Belter Chris !
Eileen: “ The answer is that it’s she who has questions to answer re her government, not Alex. Therefore she will appear to ANSWER only AFTER everyone has submitted evidence.”
That’s a new one. I suppose she needs to know in advance what version of the truth to bring.
Everything is being made up as they go along to suit the those at the dark heart of it all. And everybody knows that. It’s the most outrageously bent inquiry I’ve ever seen.
And it isn’t an ‘emperor has no clothes’ situation, as some would have it. Unpleasant as that would be, it doesn’t come close.
It’s an ‘emperor is fucking crackers’ situation.
@Ian Mac, 11.55
Well said.
SO SR and others, when we all vote SNP and elect the current cabal including many many wokesters your plan is then to DO WHAT , get rid of Sturgeon and her wokesters , BUT you have just elected them for another 5 years and agreed with the GRA and HCB , SO YOU MEMBERS haven’t forced Sturgeon to do ANYTHING for the last 6 years BUT now you will by doing WHAT
SR you say that Sturgeon won’t remain in place , unfortunately for you Sturgeon says she will and even IF she leaves the woke will appoint their own leader like DADDY , THEN the whole of Scotland is fucked
Scots Renewables really good plans , but I think i’ll just stick with not voting for the scum
Republicofscotland says:
13 February, 2021 at 2:45 pm
Baxter @11.58pm
Sturgeon and Swinney are not the SNP, leaders come and go, and as the SNP are still the most likely party to help dissolve this horrendous union, the party should be reelected.
Not on their performance since the last HR election, nearly every SNP MSP is as guilty as Sturgeon and Swinney of failing to push for independence. The failure of the MSP’s to read the runes and get shot of Swinney, Sturgeon and Murell suggests to me they are very comfy with their existance sitting in HR, hopefully more than a few will be extremely uncomfortable in the next few weeks facing their voters and worrying about facing the future being bootedout of HR.
@AwakeNotWoke 13 February, 2021 at 8:17 am
“I’m writing to my SNP constituency candidate with two questions.
1: what is a woman?
2: do you support the hate crime bill?”
Why would you expect honest answers when their ony real want is to get elected ? Don’t you think they might realise your game and just provide you with the answers you want to hear ?
Are you new to how Politics actually works ?
@Muscleguy 13 February, 2021 at 9:16 am
“On GERS she said it was the best argument for indy (though lots have to have that one explained to them) and that therefore we don’t need an economic case for indy. She was patrician and smug about it. Whcih really got my goat”
Which sums up what they think of the Scottish electorate though isn’t it ? She could have told you GERS are being used because its the SNP themselves that have been changing them every year since they were elected. https://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20200114070659/https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/Methodology
I wonder… whether the outcome of the election might be that the SNP remain the largest party, but are unable to form a majority, even with the help of the Greens – but could, with the added help of the list-elected pro-independence parties? That’d stir it up a bit.