The eternal mystery
It’s around this time of year that we always enjoy a delve in the impenetrable enigma that is the membership of Scottish Labour. (As gathered together in the picture below during Jeremy Corbyn’s last trip to Edinburgh.)
Last year, for example, we noted that the North British branch office claimed to have 30,000 members, according to a piece in the Guardian:
But all those members somehow only produced membership income for the 2017 financial year of £103,000 – meaning that if the claimed figures were accurate, each member was only contributing an average of £3.43 a year.
For some perspective, if SNP members only paid £3.43 a year each then their 2017 membership would have been an impressive 689,477 people – more than the whole of the UK Labour and Conservative parties put together.
But that’s only scratching the surface of the weirdness.
Because just six months earlier, Kezia Dugdale had told the BBC’s Gary Robertson that the Scottish membership was a rather more plausible 20,000 – including both full members and temporary “registered supporters” who paid a one-off fee to vote in leadership elections, suggesting “real” membership was significantly lower than that.
So let’s try to get all these claims in a line. (The party’s accounts are published to the end of the calendar year, ie 1 January to 31 December.)
——————————————————————-
mid December 2014: 14,000 (Source: Labour)
late December 2014: 20,000 (Source: Jim Murphy)
– 2014 membership income: £117,000
– Annual income per member: £8.36 or £5.85
——————————————————————-
May 2015: 15,000 (Source: The Financial Times)
October 2015: 29,000 (Source: The Scotsman)
December 2015: 19,000 (Source: The Financial Times)
– 2015 membership income: £120,000
– Annual income per member: £8 or £4.14 or £6.32
——————————————————————-
April 2016: 13,000 (Source: The Times)
August 2016: 23,000 (Source: Kezia Dugdale)
– 2016 membership income: £108,000
– Annual income per member: £8.31 or £4.70
——————————————————————-
February 2017: 20,000* (Source: Kezia Dugdale)
August 2017: 30,000 (Source: The Guardian)
September 2017: 21,500** (Source: The Herald)
* including registered supporters
** plus 9,500 registered supporters
– 2017 membership income: £103,000
– Annual income per member: £5.15 or £3.43 or almost any other number
——————————————————————-
The 2017 figures in particular are an epic mess. We know (or are told) that a total of 21,985 votes were cast in the leadership election towards the end of the year, of which 17,664 were from full members and 4,321 from registered/affiliated supporters.
(Just 79 people paid the £12 fee to be registered supporters – affiliates are people with voting rights due to membership of certain trade unions – in dramatic contrast to the 180,000 who paid twice as much for the right to vote for Jeremy Corbyn in 2016.)
Those numbers can be made to tally roughly with ANY of the four 2017 figures above, depending on the level of turnout, which the party didn’t reveal, so we’re none the wiser. All we can say for sure is that membership is at least 17,664, which would give a per-head income of £5.83.
According to the Scottish Labour joining page, membership costs “as little as £3 per year”, but it also claims that “most members pay our standard rate of £4.17 a month [£50 a year] and many choose to pay more to support our campaigns”.
That last sentence can only possibly be a colossal lie. Even at the smallest possible membership figure we have, if 51% of them were paying the standard rate that’d be £450,792 a year from them alone (plus £26,496 from the others, assuming they were all paying the minimum £3). That’s getting on for FIVE TIMES the actual membership income the party has declared.
The only way to split 17,664 members to produce anywhere even roughly in the region of £103,000 from the available membership rates is something like this:
£50 full rate: 664 (£33,200)
£25 reduced rate: 1,000 (£25,000)
£3 young person/student rate: 16,000 (£48,000)
TOTAL: £106,200
So we’re still terribly interested to know where the hundreds of thousands of pounds in seemingly-missing Scottish Labour membership fees are going, because we’re fairly sure 91% of the branch office’s membership can’t be students or teenagers.
But really, if you want to know how many members Tricky Dicky Leonard’s branch office actually has, just think of a number, any number.
You’ll be as right as anyone else is.
Canny beat Johnny ball
Does UK Labour take all their income and give them some pocket money back? They’re comfortable with that concept.
That’s numberwang!
Scottish Labour are so bad that it has actually become a national embarrassment. The Labour movement was founded by a Scot, but this bunch of useless incompetents are giving Scots a bad name. It’s tempting to lend them ten SNP members just to raise the average intelligence above that of a golden retriever.
But is the whole point that there aren’t any members of the Labour party in Scotland because no such entity exists if you’re a member of the Labour party then doesn’t your money go to head office England somewhere which is the real Labour winey drinky snacky party so if you don’t like Jezebel Crumbly, tough, your paying for his Weetabix and champagne Muesli in the morning whether you like it or not
It looks like the “grass roots” of Labour in Scotland are at best sparse and shallow, or more likely synthetic.
Is it possible for people in Scotland to join (and pay their membership) directly to the national Labour Party but, because they have a Scottish address, they get counted in ‘Scottish Labour’ membership numbers?
Murdo Fraser just said something about shopping. : -)
The following message was leaked by an unhappy Labour Party official
The You silly Jocks.
It doesn’t matter how many members our North British branch actually has, or evenc claims to have. All membership fees are paid directly to London, then we give them back enough for them to remain quiet and compliant, but, not too-much, since they’d only squander our largesse on Highland Toffee and macaroon bars.
Pay it all to London, and let London decide how it is spent – that’s the British way, and Labour, never forget, is a British party, and you Jocks have to learn that.
I never understand why Stu is puzzled by this. He spends his time referring to Scottish Labour as a ‘branch office’ and then is bemused by the fact that their accounts look like that of a … branch office. Clearly Scottish Labour either have to forward most membership cash to London or, more likely, never see it in the first place and get a fixed amount (either per member or a percentage) doled out to them by the central organisation. Unless you know the formula, trying to work out membership from it is fairly meaningless.
(Tory accounts have the opposite problem by the way, with the constituencies keeping most of the cash and just sending a percentage on).
We actually do have a turnout for the 2017 leadership election (Labour 404s it but someone kept a copy for Wiki):
link to web.archive.org
which gives 62.3%. Based on the 17,664 members who voted this gives a membership of 28,353.
Of course that assumes that all classes of voters turned out the same, but given that TU-affiliated voters had to apply for a ballot to do so (and how pathetically few did) and that the laughable 79 who actually paid £12 to register would have got their money’s worth, if anything you would expect the turnout in these groups to be higher.
So a CLP-based SLab membership of around 28,000 seems a reasonable guess.
I had a “brainwave” this morning which chimes with this post.
What about a slogan saying:
“If English political parties did not exist in Scotland, would you feel the need to invent them?”
Or something along those lines.
Roger Mexico has it spot on. The finances of SLAB are Barnetted, clearly. Because no organisation such as Scottish Labour actually exists. A cynic might say they were hiding something..
Love it and like his predecessors dick from whatever union down south lies to his back teeth with the view it is only sales pitch.
But dicky no one is buying.
Does anyone here know a member of Labour?
I don’t.
Had a great uncle who was very active but he lived in London for decades and was a pal of Diane Abbot so I don’t know if he counts and he died a few years ago anyway.
Honestly don’t know anyone who is (or will confess to being) a member.
Sayings come to mind when considering the Labour Party in Scotland… chocolate teapot/fireguard … perhaps. They are certainly still the same party, if much diminished in numbers, as the Feeble Fifty of the Thatcher years.
Another saying which describes the BritNats so well is … hate the Tories for what the are, and hate Labour for what they are not. Looking back through the decades, Labour has professed to be the people’s party but has failed miserably to deliver for the people. Labour are an Establishment tool as much as the Tories. With the Tories, you know what you’re getting. With Labour you get hypocrisy and sell outs washed down with the same British Nationalism.
Here we are, threatened by much more than just Brexit, which is being used as a cover to take a huge idealogical step to the right. And where are Labour? Totally incompetent bystanders.
Gina Miller at the Edinburgh Book Festival has it spot on …
“Those politicians who I think have a hidden agenda are actually picking at the wounds of Brexit. I think it’s a very right-wing agenda. I think it’s an ideology that sees us as going towards a demolishing of democracy, and a move towards an authoritarian society where they become the masters and the rest of us, painted through choice, become the obedient, or those with lesser choices.”
link to archive.is
You might have expected Labour might have opposed all this with heart and soul. Nah, useful as a spent fuse, to coin another saying.
How hard is it to declare membership numbers? One can only assume that Labour don’t talk about full membership because the number is shockingly small and shrinking. The Conservatives under May are faring little better. I believe their membership numbers for the whole of the UK are significantly less than that of the SNP.
Just another reason to to hate the SNP because it is a genuinely popular grass roots organisation.
@Ian Brotherhood 4.09pm
(or will confess to being) Maybe they keep them in an enclave somewhere next to the Doo huts till they let oot tae vote
Roger Mexico @ 15:42,
Your figures seem to have gone awry somewhere, Roger, at least according to your linked reference. The total number of votes cast was 21,994 (including the 9 declared spoilt), being 62.3% of the stated total of 35,309 ballots issued to people “entitled to vote”.
So I guess you could put the active membership at that time as ~22k, the remainder having a rather more tenuous link. (Older folk just renewing out of habit or nostalgia? Or being totally unmotivated by the thought of either Sarwar or Leonard as Branch Manager. As if there were – or now are – any more-impressive candidates “waiting in the wings”.)
Not that I’m bothered about the subject really. There’s always going to be a dedicated band of followers, no matter how stupid it all gets. Ordinary folk just need to keep on drifting away at each future election, unimpressed by the NorthBritLab doom-mongering and total absence of ideas, and the situation will resolve itself soon enough.
Tories backed by dark money, Labour backed by dim.
Any young person considering a career in politics would be well advised to steer well clear of the Labour Party unless they’re prepared to spend a lifetime in opposition sniping from the sidelines while others get things done. The SNP remains the sensible choice for sensible folk but I’m afraid many will now be put off by the intense level of scrutiny, intimidation and outright hostility they’re likely to receive if elected to a position of power and responsibility.
That leaves the Tories where you’ll always come up smelling of roses even after a series of monumental fuck ups because you’ve got the press and the BBC on your side. As an added bonus, the Scottish Tories always win even when they lose. Thanks to their support in England & Northern Ireland, they get to run the show in the big parliament at Westminster where all the important decisions are taken. Perhaps Ruth Davidson knows a thing or two after all?
A quick look at the accounts of “The Scottish Labour Party” shows they are prepared in accordance with FRS 102.
FRS 102 includes the condition “An entity shall include in revenue only the gross inflows of economic benefits received and receivable by the entity on its own account”.
The [gross] membership income referred to relates to activities in Scotland. It should therefore be directly comparable to the claimed membership in Scotland.
It would be good if the note in the accounts told us how much £ is actually included from “affiliated and party organisations in Scotland”.
Ah, looks like Jackie Baillie’s magic calculator has been at work again? Now how does it go again, think of a number, now……….. and we get? Well do what Labour do write down a number and double it or maybe even treble it and their membership will still be wrong. They can’t bear the shame of how the once mighty Scottish Labour has sunk so low into the sewer of lies and deceit wholly of their own making.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The eternal mystery It’s around this time of year that we always enjoy a delve in the impenetrable […]
Oh,the Scottish Labour branch manager isn’t quite sure of the size of the number. He just knows it’s very big.
link to blogs.scientificamerican.com
According to the Guardian, Labour generated £16.1m from 550000 members or about £29.27 a year per head. If Labour’s Scottish members are typical of the UK as a whole then there are only about 3,500 of them.
Of course it is entirely possible that the accounts were drafted by Baillie and Abbot on the Labour abaci, in which case it is anyone’s guess.
How many TU members know that they are also counted as Labour Party members and how many know how their “votes” were used at the shell of a “Scottish” Tame Union Congress with no Scottish Trade Unions left, apart from the EIS?
There’s Jackie Baillie figures Kevin Hauge figures an ah broken doon Abacus, ma monies oan the broken doon Abacus fur the right figures .
Ive noticed before, and notice again, that there seems to be a very close correlation between SLab claimed membership and the numberof people who “like” their facebook page. For comparrison SNP have around twice as many facebook likers as actual members. As do Scottish Greens…
The members of the organisation themselves are the people who should be most concerned about the opposite trends in alleged membership numbers and income for their own organisation!
It’s weird that this site appears unique in finding this whole situation opaque and obviously odd.
The Labour Party pays the members. Councillors, Union reps etc. That’s all that’s left of them. Same as Tory and LibDems. Troughing on public money. A bunch of lying opportunists. Tanking the economy and fleecing the public. Why anyone votes for them is a mystery. Especially in Scotland. Robbed blind for years.
Hothersall’s gone to drink. He needs help. The state of him.
“Does anyone here know a member of Labour?”
I know one, as it happens, Ian. He is a union official. He secretly votes SNP.
I think sentences one and two are linked.
Says it all really.
Ken 500 @17.24
Union reps don’t get paid Ken. They volunteer to try and help people in the workplace.
All you need to know is that Labour, whether in Scotland or not, is a british nationalist party, and are thus totally untrustworthy.
…perhaps this is the source of the dark money going to the Tories!
Perhaps Better Together has led to a permanent bond?
Without doubt Scottish Labour branch has a significant number of “members”…perhaps that has caused the confusions!
O/T.
Can’t find this on the BBC. Quelle surprise !
[Translation mine]
_______
Scotland hopes to benefit more from its food
27 August 2018
The Scottish government has launched a plan to double the income that comes to the country via food and drink tourism by 2030.
The aim is to turn Scotland into an international leader in food tourism and to secure an additional £1billion annually for its economy.
The steps in the plan include a new food tourism website, an apprenticeship programme, and encouraging more agricultural tourism.
The scheme was launched by business leaders and First Minister Nicola Sturgeon on the Isle of Arran, where the Scottish Cabinet is meeting.
“Scotland is already renowned as a country of food and drink, with our world-class quality products,” said Nicola Sturgeon.
“With around £1billion already spent on food and drink from visitors every year, the economic benefit is obvious.
“Here on Arran, I see how high-quality local products can attract visitors and enrich their experience of Scotland.
“Now is the time for everyone to work together to make sure we make the most of what this sector has to offer.”
[Source: link to golwg360.cymru
Labour are a busted flush in Scotland that’s for sure. It’s no wonder though, because no matter how much the Britnat media continue to bombard the people of Scotland with SNP bad, most people know which side their bread is buttered, and it always was, and still is, only ever ‘jam tomorrow’ with Labour.
Labour promised the world and delivered a barrow full of muck!
With the Labour branch in Scotland ever loyal to their English masters, utterly confused and confusing the voters, running around like headless chickens, quacks, I know that’s ducks, Scotland is in no mans land. Devolution light, as it stands is stifling Scotland, and stifling the young people of Scotland’s futures.
Only independence can really square the circle of being trapped in a dysfunctional union with our nasty neighbours, ( I mean the governments there not the people) which clips the wings of and rides roughshod over the people of Scotland.
Labour are surely between a rock and a hard place, they want power in Scotland, ( snigger) but cowtow to their masters in London, while working against Scotland, it can’t continue and it won’t. Karma.
O/T
The S*N’s front page news today:
‘The Eckorcist. Sturgeon signals Salmond WILL be axed by the SNP.’
And then go on to seemingly contradict themselves by stating that,”Nicola Sturgeon last night signalled SNP Chiefs will suspend Alex Salmond as soon as they can see the sex pest (she said that?) claims against him.” Ms Sturgeon said party bosses had no ‘legal basis’ to axe Mr Salmond as a government report on the allegations must stay secret while he sues ministers. The First Minister added “Should that change, the matter will be reconsidered.”
Then they follow up with “The First Minister told of her frustration as being unable to highlight “inaccuracies” in his statements while he sues her administration.”
But then report later in the article that she said “For legal reasons the Scottish Government is extremely restricted in what it is able to say – that included its ability to correct what it considers you be inaccuracies in the public statements of others.” So does “others” actually refer to Alex Salmond?
The latter example of “others”, not Alex, is the version that she voiced on the television.
The gist of the whole article is that this is a battle between Alex and Nicola. The use of the usual propaganda tactics throughout would make you sick.
Didn’t we establish last time round that you could vote in Labour leadership election several times. One vote as a regular member, one vote as a union member and one vote as a social club member.
Vote early vote often is the motto of the Labour Party.
That’s just the queue to claim their expenses after listening to another deluge of lies, false promises and meaningless guff.
“Politicians like to tell people what they want to hear – and what they want to hear is what won’t happen.”
?Paul Samuelson
listened to Leonard on bbc scotchland and why he has submitted foi requests about AS and the First Minister– to protect women of course and give them space- Does he not realise AS is no longer a MSP or MP ? Does he not realise that his concern for his fellow human beings is as false as he is. What a horrible individual.
Labour, Daily Record, Clegg, Leask are of the lowest orders.
The world turns on the Brits:
Some interesting news on the Island of Mauritius and their rights under the United Nations to be free of British colonialism regarding allowing citizens returning from the surrounding Islands, It seems to be a complicated affair and I don’t know the whole story but it appears the UN and other countries have stepped in to defend the Islands rights against the British
Although Mauritius is a republic technically it’s still a British commonwealth mish mash of ownership
In an interview with the President he explains how the British had threatened them with sanctions and Boris Johnson personally telephoned the President to threaten him with any and all means of stopping Mauritius in its endeavours
I think the Brits will want to keep this as quiet as they can and off the TV so some digging will be in order
Judging by the photo Labour prefers to lawnder its money.
@Petra 7.31pm
I watched the interview with the FM along those lines and they’ve twisted what she said out of all recognition by selecting words she did say and inserting them into their own sentences to produce an entirely different account
They’re nasty lying buggers these media people
Mauritius?
Dr Jim does it having anything to do with these poor people.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Trade union leaders and admin get paid. They get vast salaries and benefits. They fund the Labour Party. Rep get perks. They get hours off work. On trade union business. The trade union leaders often collaborate with bosses, To the detriment of their members. There are books written about it. Many are misogynist, racist and bigoted. Sold out their members.
Some are not. The railway workers had a good leader. Crowe. He died young. He refused to fund the Labour Party. Blair/Brown. Political Parties get short money Gov funding. The unionist Parties are known for handing out money to propagandist/lobbyists. Paying their Pollsters mates public money.
@sunshine says: 27 August, 2018 at 5:49 pm:
” … Union reps don’t get paid Ken. They volunteer to try and help people in the workplace.”
Not exactly true, sunshine. Shop Stewards do not get paid but may get a few perks, like extra leave/time off work for union courses at trade union colleges. However, area and national Trade Union officials do get paid and handsomely.
Take that as true from a Winger who, as openly SNP, was voted back as shop steward for over 15 years by his colleagues in the workplace.
The National reporting that Alex Salmond is demanding that Leslie Evans investigate the leak of the “confidential” report to the Daily Record.
The comments are good. How can it be called “confidential” when it is plastered all over the front pages of the tabloids
link to archive.fo
The Westminster controlled media in Scotland stinks. The so called journalists/broadcasters are nothing but propaganda writers for a foreign country. Basically a lot of Lord HAW HAWS.
The lowest of the low.
Taking money from a foreign country to run down the country you live in. Pathetic creatures who will all end up in London begging for money from their English masters. Any decent Scot should have nothing but contempt for them.
Do not buy these Britnat papers they are dangerous to your health and your children’s future.
Protect women and give them space. Giving them anonymity to bring complaint years after alleged abuse. If they want to be taken seriously they should be prepared to be identified. Anyone can make a malicious complaint. They could have any reason. If it can’t be taken forward for lack of evidence. A civil case requires less evidence and can be taken forward.
It seems to be a great coincidence. These new rules were put in place in January. With reference to former FM ministers. There is only one prominent one. Immediately a six year old complaint is made. Did they know that was going to happen?
It all stinks. No one believes a word of it. Even unionists. The Tories are being quite quiet. Either because of their conflicts or because they are behind it. The allegations are so ludicrous in every way. They must be employing some real, dumb, ignorant civil servants. Chained to the floor. Apart from the fact Alex Salmond lying on anyone, requires some imagination. It would be laughed out of court for so many reasons.
They were once claiming Alex Salmond was gay. Then there were rumours about Fiona Hyslop. When she has a child and a partner. The rumour mill goes on and on. Gie’s a break. Honestly. Alex Salmond like a gamble but his obsession is politics and injustice. He has been right and telling the truth all along.
Meant to say Dr Jim that if you scroll down to September 2018 you’ll see that an ICJ hearing will be considering if “Britain violated Mauritian sovereignty when it took possession for its own purposes.”
Sounds familiar. Maybe WE should be considering taking Westminster to The Hague?
They seem to have a lot on their plate right now between Scotland, Ireland, Gibraltor and Mauritious.
Additionally I’d need to check it out but I’m nearly sure that the ethnic cleansing of the Chagossian people happened when the Labour Party was in power and of course under the rule of good Queen Bessie. What a despicable crew.
@ Capella at 8:37pm …. “Confidential.”
Leslie Evans states that the report is confifdential, however as we all know one of the complaints is splattered all over the Media. Could it be that the complainant herself passed the story onto the Daily Rag? High time someone from Police Scotland paid a visit to Mr Clegg to clarify the situation.
Robert J. Sutherland at 4.34 p.m.and Murray McCallum at 4.36.
“Affiliated” is the key. My wife,four decades an SNP member could vote in Labour contests because she was a member of an affiliated union. Had she been also a Labour Party member that would have been another vote. I was told that social members of Labour clubs could also vote though I don’t know if this is correct.
Journalist Gerry Hassan did an investigation into Labour membership numbers some years ago using cash subscription totals
as his base. He figured out that total Labour full membership in Scotland was around 6,000 on the basis of that. Despite a small rise on a short lived Corbyn bounce I would imagine that that figure is actually not far from the truth. I would be very surprised if the total full membership of Scotland’s unionist trio of parties reaches more than 15,000.
Hamish100 says:
27 August, 2018 at 7:52 pm
listened to Leonard on bbc scotchland and why he has submitted foi requests about AS and the First Minister.
Seriously, is this the most important issue facing Scotland – awa an bile yer heid Mr. Leonard, come back when you have something positive to say about Scotland.
Stop blaming the SNP for you and your parties failures. Your party lorded over Scotland for 50 fucking years with little to show.
@Petra
Those are the very people Petra but apparently the Brits use Mauritius for *strategic* purposes as well so there’s land belonging to the people they want back to live on and the Brits are denying them their rights (that’s if I’ve got my story correct)But what’s nice to hear is the UN and others are intervening on the Islands behalf to chuck out the one time Imperial Masters
Their world’s beginning to cave in on them at last, just think they’ll have to accept just being a country like everybody else
Tory councillor Ashley Graczyk moves from NO to YES
Shinty @ 9.08
Absolutely Shinty…. Their joab, their Only Joab, “lets call it the day job” is to be an opposition tae the government…
Alex Salmond is no in the Government.
There is a procedure that the Scottish civil service is implementing re: Alex Salmond.. questions about that are righteous fur an opposition…
Questions about party shit is not…
Unless and until Labour get on board with a Quid Pro Quo…
Question then is “Do They Feel Lucky”
We do have a figure for number of full members in Scotland who voted in the 2016 UK Labour leadership contest of 12,898:
link to en.wikipedia.org
The turnout then was 77.6%, though that was all classes of members everywhere, which would give a Scottish membership of 16,621 if evenly spread.
But it has to be remembered that this is the membership from January 2016, because the Labour establishment was trying to get rid of Corbyn by not allowing recent joiners to vote. 285,176 full members overall voted in the contest, which a 77.6% turnout would imply 367,494 eligible. If we assume that the current UK membership is 550,000, it suggests a 50% increase since the 2016 cut-off, which would give a current Scottish membership of around 25,000.
So it seems likely that the current membership of Scottish Labour is in the 25-30k range, more likely at the bottom end of it. It’s worth pointing out just how poor this is in UK terms. It’s about 4.5% of the total membership – you’d expect it to be about twice that pro-rate.
Scottish Labour has always had low membership numbers – presumably only the select were allowed to join the perpetually-ruling clan in the days of its pomp. There were only 13,000 CLP members at the time of the 2010 UK leadership election when the UK numbers were about 200,000. But even being generous it looks as if Scotland has benefited less from the Corbyn boom in membership than elsewhere.
@Rabb says: 27 August, 2018 at 2:52 pm
” … Does UK Labour take all their income and give them some pocket money back? They’re comfortable with that concept.”
Of course they do – It is, “The British/UK/English way”. The British Empire rule on the principle that what is yours is theirs but what is theirs is their own. Then came the United Kingdom, legally still a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms but operates as the country of England, (with no actual parliament of England), acting as the de facto parliament of England but calling itself the United Kingdom parliament that has thus devolved the powers of the, (unelected as such), de facto parliament of England devolving English parliament powers to their only kingdom partner in the United Kingdom. So again, what is ours is theirs but what is theirs is their own.
It is always the case that they hold not only the purse strings as their own but also the powers and the sovereignty and none of which is actually legally theirs to do.
Roger Mexico at 9.44
As Stu has pointed out your calculation is very far indeed from accurate. Voting in elections includes thousands who are not full members of the Labour Party but are members of affiliated trade unions and many have more than one vote.
For your calculation to be anywhere near accurate the full members would have to be paying only about £3 per year.
I would be surprised indeed if their Scottish full membership was above 10,000. Many of their branches across the country are entirely moribund or in fact defunct.
The Labour Party in Scotland is in the wrong place constitutionally and is terminally ill. It only barely survives because of media support.
Capella says:
Didn’t we establish last time round that you could vote in Labour leadership election several times. One vote as a regular member, one vote as a union member and one vote as a social club member.
Not any more (Stu got this wrong last time). It was changed to one member one vote for the UK by 2015 and Scottish leaderships by 2016:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Affiliate members are mainly TU members who pay the political levy (many don’t). Most social clubs don’t qualify, though I suspect it depends on their constitution, but there are things called socialist societies, though most of the members of those will already be CLP members and you’re not supposed to vote more than once.
They still use the old system in Wales though.
Everyone and their dug knows that AS is being fitted up,
we know the Britnats know the media knows,
there are undiscovered tribes in the Amazon that know,
MI5/G4S have got together with Scotland`s unholy trinity of British Labour in Scotland,The British Broadcasting Corporation in Scotland and The British Daily Record/Clegg
like Skripals/poison/Russia, White helmets/chemical/Syria, this is all part of the UK unelected State manipulating people/news to get what it wants.
@ Roger Mexico – fair enough, my mistake.
Maybe someone who can be bothered should submit a FoI request. Labour are fond of FoIs.
There are precisely ZERO members of Scottish Labour only Labour.
@ Scot Finlayson – I agree. But perhaps this whole pantomime will just have to play out, and whatever fresh pantos the spooks have up their sleeves waiting for the right moment.
Alex Salmond may well be able to turn this to his advantage and challenge it in court. It’s certainly generating an avalanche of publicity. It doesn’t put me off voting for him or having him front the next Indy campaign.
BBC 10:00 pm news: “The World is supporting Mauritious against the UK Government ….”
Little isolated England is becoming a reality. Too wee, poor and stupid, right enough.
link to bbc.co.uk
@Capella,
I think the Russian angle in the States attack on Alex is a major factor,
his working with RT which brings RT a lot of viewers that normally wouldn`t even know it`s there,
the State is certainly trying to undermine Putin and Russia,
Skripals here and chemicals in Syria,
taking a long shot at the ultimate reasons to alienate the Russian`s is Nord Stream 2 the gas pipeline from Russia to Germany.
Thepnr @ 22:19 pm,
Well, indeed.
Just like the BBC in its own way, there’s never been a sighting of “English Labour”, has there?
@Capella says: 27 August, 2018 at 8:37 pm:
” … How can it be called “confidential” when it is plastered all over the front pages of the tabloids?
link to archive.fo
Oh! Easy! Peesie! question, Capella.
It is because when the tabloids refer to, “The Scottish Government”, they mead the Westminster Civil Servants at Holyrood but when Nicola refers to the Scottish Government she means the elected members of the SNP currently with a majority in Holyrood.
You may recall that it took some time and fighting for the SNP to get it accepted that they were not just the, “Executive”, or the “assembly”, delegated to administer what Westminster dictated. but that they were, (being elected by the sovereign people of Scotland), the actual government of Scotland, “reconvened”, by Winnie Ewing when she opened the first sitting of the Scottish parliament in over 300 years.
Note that Westminster is still reluctant to concede that Wales has a parliament and continue to call that an Assembly.
So there you go – in the eyes of the Establishment, (including their media stooges), the Scottish Government is the Westminster paid for Civil Servants and the Scotland Office but in the eye the voters and the SNP the government of Scotland is the Holyrood Parliament.
Scot Finlayson says:
27 August, 2018 at 10:12 pm
“like Skripals/poison/Russia, White helmets/chemical/Syria, this is all part of the UK unelected State manipulating people/news to get what it wants.”
Rock (18th April – “Trampling on graves”):
“The most disgraceful political thing that has happened to Scotland since it was sold 311 years ago has been the Scottish First Minister from an independence supporting party standing “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.
Even the lame duck official UK opposition leader Corbyn had the guts to question the “evidence” without being afraid of being “crucified”.
Anyone who thinks that the gutless Establishment lawyer Nicola will lead Scotland to independence is completely deluded, in my humble opinion.
I don’t for one moment doubt her commitment to the independence cause, but Scotland will not get independence from England in a million years by playing according to Westminster rules.”
Scot Finlayson @ 10:52pm
Oil and Gas wars.
Nord Stream is a factor as are other pipelines
link to globalresearch.ca
There are two competing gas pipelines that go through Syria to Europe. One backed by Assad from Iran and one backed by “the West” from Qatar. This is the real reason for the Arab Spring bullshit that the West has been spouting on its news channels.
Globalresearch.ca is a very useful site with lots of geopolitical insights. A good one to bookmark.
I have a strong sense this is not going to end well for the Daily Record who *claim* information was leaked to them if it wasn’t, and if I read the FMs statement correctly, *inaccurate* information, or in my words they just made it up
It’s all a bit Denmarky
Rock @ 11:26pm
Put on a new record rock, the old one is scratchy having been played every day since forever…
“Anyone who thinks that the gutless establishment lawyer Nicola will lead Scotland to independence is completely deluded IMHO.
… Scotland will not get independence from England in a million years by playing to Westminster rules”
1. Nicola will lead us to independence, and
2. Westminster rules have a glaring flaw
That flaw will be driven through by Nicola and there is very little Westminster can do about it.
Have fun figuring it out Rock.
@Rock,
As the sainted Nicola said,
Independence stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all.
Yet hope remains, while all the company is true.
TIN,Trust in Nicola.
BBC bad enough news, was late, so I watched STV. Oh dear, I’m John Mackay. That was dreadful, and I don’t mean the content. The presentation was dreadful, clockwork, shouty, poor.
How long have they been doing that? Since yesterday?
On top of that, the tabloid content. John Mackay, walk out again – and stay out. Thanks.
After a coversation with the late Jimmie Reid on the feerry to Rothesay, \jimmie told me that both he and I were stillcocunted as members of SLAB long after we had left. I joked ,th at I supsecct my dead Grannie would still be on the list. He replied ,”Aye and like my deid Grannie they willboth be voting labour at the next election, as will you and I Seamus”
(Wheest!!!!)
@ Petra
your right about the Chagossians, their removal was under the Wilson gov’t.
It’s despicable that Johnson threatened Mauritius with a trade war for pressing on with a case to the UN. How very British. Every day we hear of that creature’s misdeeds, like the Nazari-Ratcliffe case, still ongoing.
It’s ironic that the Chagos question is coming up now, because I’m pretty sure Alex would want to be at the UN for that hearing, and would offer to speak as to how many times he has raised this with British governments over the years.
Valerie – Ooh, maybe you’ve just answered the Alex accused question of why now?
@ TJenny
I think it may be one aspect of the timing. The other issue might also be the hope that he remains embroiled if a GE is called, as everyone seems to think may happen.
Imo, the biggest issue is the big possibility of Nicola setting out timing of Indyref2 at Autumn conference.
There are so many key things going on, they are very happy if a large wedge is driven between the two biggest names, best politicians and brains we have.
It’s just bad times.
Valerie – aye, bad for WM, what with all these plates they’re spinning – NI border, Gibralter, us, and what about the Channel Isles and UK encclaves too. Methinks these plates are looking awfy wobbly on their sticks.
Scot Finlayson says:
27 August, 2018 at 11:56 pm
@Rock,
As the sainted Nicola said,
Independence stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all.
Yet hope remains, while all the company is true.
TIN,Trust in Nicola.
If only she’d given us a wee bottle of starlight to light our way in dark places…. and maybe confirmation on which side of Brexit the SNP fight will finally begin…
Petra @ 8.10 pm
Thank you for the Wikipedia link on the Expulsion of the Chagossians.
I really hope the whole sordid tale is fully exposed and especially the leaked documents and comments, for example referring to the people as ‘Tarzans’ and ‘Man Fridays’. (Who does that remind us all of?)
Particularly chilling is the slaughter of 1000 island dogs, pets, as a WARNING to the islanders.
Parallels with the Highland Clearances spring to mind.
I do wonder though why the folk who called this island home could not stay even though the USofA wanted to plant one of their bases there? Unpleasant as that forced presence may have been.
The 50 year lease (or whatever) to the USA expired in 2016.
So they are away, yeah? Somehow not.
And then later plans, very recently, to declare the area a ‘maritime reserve’ (sounds lovely and green, doesn’t it!) in order to prevent the inhabitants from returning! WTveryF!
Where the hell does this British Government get off?
As Reginald D Hunter said of the British in a Fringe interview last year: ‘See, the problem with you people is that you just take shit that isn’t yours!’
The UN are making moves. Let us hope that these folk get their home back.
The UK Government really do not have their troubles to seek right now.
@ Ghillie at 5:35am Chagossian people.”
John Pilger has a great deal to say about this situation Ghillie, in particular how they are living in absolute squalor even now. All done under the auspices of Lizzie one or two.
This comes at a bad time for nae mates Westminster in relation to the US base. Trump et al won’t be amused if that’s under threat of “removal”. Treeza’s pal won’t be too happy with her. Then add to that the Scots ridding themselves of Trident. Then there’s Gibraltor etc, etc. Good enough for them.
It was not a good career move leaking lies about Alex Salmond.
May off on another overseas jaunt. PM swanning around the world. To avoid the chaos they have caused in the UK. Off on a jollie when they know their time is up. Blair, Cameron etc. The Tories now a complete embarrassment. Johnston is an imbecile. Deranged. Psycho bastards. Their own description. Murdoch sacked Johnston for telling lies. A criminal.
Fox claiming a tattle sale to China. Scotland has been exporting seed tatties all over the world for years.
Another Labour faux pas. Fishing figures in Scotland miscalculated. Dick Leonard should fit a grip.
An IndyRef will be held when it can be won. It would be difficult to hold an IndyRef at the same time as a GE. There will be a GE soon to get the Tories out of their mess. They will lose even more support. Especially in Scotland. Brexit will be a disaster. Especially for Scotland losing powers.
Links
link to news.gov.scot
link to snp.org
link to rbs.postach.io
link to indyref2.scot
link to airdrieforindependence.wordpress.com
link to nngoffshorewind.com
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
For a strong and secure future back an Independent Scotland with its own #ScottishCurrency and its own Central Bank.
link to facebook.com
Will not archive
link to energyvoice.com
link to grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com
link to businessforscotland.com
link to theweedetour.wordpress.com
Stalled Progress on Brexit and Talk of No Deal Are Causes for Concern
link to scer.scot
link to taxresearch.org.uk
link to newshoundsnewsround.wordpress.com
Brexit: a “superbrain” crashes and burns
link to eureferendum.com
Emmanuel Macron has dealt Theresa May a major blow by rejecting the PM’s plea to rescue her Brexitplan
link to archive.is
1/ Medical radioisotopes and ‘no-deal’ Brexit. What’s the problem and how will patients be affected? What will be done to protect these vital NHS services? Here’s a thread on the issues surrounding a nuclear No deal Brexit
link to twitter.com
link to beergbrexit.blog
Corporate Japan despairs at UK’s lack of clarity over Brexit
link to archive.is
France to make contingency plans for no-deal Brexit
link to archive.is
Hypocritical BBC ‘BBC pension fund has stakes in Amazon, Netflix and Facebook’
link to tvlicenceresistance.info
Mind your chuckle muscles
link to sluggerotoole.com
I wonder if I’m classed as a member? I filled in a survey telling them how rubbish they were and now I get regular emails asking for donations.
Oh well BBC news has bucked up this morning. No mention of Alex and Mike Russell and entourage in Paris making Scotland’s case for staying in the single market and customs union regardless of what the rest of the UK Is doing.
LibDems do not like getting mail.
They can dish it out but don’t like getting it back.
Total hypocrites. Overspending on fake leaflets. Calling the Police. They should get arrested. A waste of time.
link to insider.co.uk
No complaints against Salmond before January, says Scottish Government – Evening Express
link to twitter.com
This will make your mouth water
link to foodanddrink.scot
Advertising for cannon fodder
link to twitter.com
Good morning, Nana.
Thank you, for your lovely links.
Kettle’s on!
🙂
“No-deal Brexit wouldn’t be end of world” says May. It’ll just be the end of the so-called united kingdom… which is nice.
Petra@7.30.
Aye, I was expecting more same old, same old on GM Shortbread this morning.
Could it be the their new strategy “smear at the end of the week so weekends are filled with smear stories in news!?papers and the media, especially for the gullible.
Why oh why, can’t people see the tennis on TV. Without subscription. 4 times a year?
The tax man cometh in other divisions.
Re AS most complaints are time barred so how can a staff? complaint be made after the person has left employment unless its a direct complaint to Police. Reeks of the news of the world set ups.
Great Links Nana
Dan Huil says:
28 August, 2018 at 8:17 am
“No-deal Brexit wouldn’t be end of world” says May. It’ll just be the end of the so-called united kingdom… which is nice.
LOL, a wee smile to start my day, cheers!
Good morning Smallaxe 🙂
Petra says “nae mates Westminster”
This reminded me of a Russian (diplomat, I think) in response to some Tory twat. He said ” … ah, you English and your little island mentality ….” -thought it was a cracker.
O/T
The Empire Strikes Back.
I am surprised the BBC has this.
link to bbc.co.uk
@ Gary45% …… Rest assured Gary the smears will continue one way or another. The BBC’s probably got the message that their overkill strategy, right now, isn’t working and may in fact prove to be an own goal. And who knows maybe pro-active Alex is laying into them all from behind the scenes?
Thanks for the links Nana. I see there’s been no prior complaints about Alex in his 30 years of being a politician, Surprise, Surprise. That’s Annie Wells et als bubble burst.
The online BBC news article states that it was two Civil Servants that reported him. Another leak?
Two Civil Servants? Leslie Evans with her Music Degree and Gillian McGregor, LOL.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
link to gov.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
Herald going big this morning on: “MI5 link to Salmond smear debunked.”
All the proof we need then, it’s an attempted stitch-up of Wee Eck between the Westminster civil service and MI5.
FFS Herald, print some news, we all already know that’s what has happened.
Jennifer Jones and Leask the bots trying to take the Herald down.
The unionists are determined to smear to the end. Determined to lose all credibility. No one believes the nonsense. On the wrong foot once again. How low can they go.
“Does anyone know a Labour Party member?”
My uncle was a member and branch activist, but he died about 18 years ago.
Scott , I take it Mauritius is off the island of Madagascar and is a teeny wee dot in the Indian Ocean?
BBBC map is a tad misleading .
OT this is a whinge , I see by thanks printed in past weeks that folk have received their Wings goodies – I huvnae!
And all I wanted was a badge!
Treeza champing her gums big time in Cape Town big time this morning.
They really need this trade deal, and she has said UK will continue the Agreement already in place via the EU. EU might have something to say about it, as well as WTO countries.
Boasting City of London manages £8trillion of assets, but somehow skips these assets are held in shady off shore accounts.
Nana says
This has been puzzling me, glad to see my take on it is the same as the EU’s …..
“It is also puzzling for us on the EU side to observe that some in the UK seem to believe that the political declaration on the future EU-UK relationship, which will accompany the Withdrawal Agreement, will somehow be binding on what that relationship will ultimately be. The political declaration will only be a statement of principles and a commitment to negotiate after the UK has left the EU – it will not be a guarantee of the UK’s future relationship with the EU “
Listening to Tories and their loyal media, you would think everything has stalled because the EU won’t accept TMay’s Chequers ill conceived plan.
This subterfuge was wide implications. A lot of people appear to have expectations of knowing what the future relationship will be within months. We won’t, the most we will know is the Withdrawal Agreement. And it’s pretty much clear. TMay needs to accept an Irish backstop and a few other details and it’s there.
Also, this People’s Vote, which is a poorly hidden excuse to simply get a Remain vote and cancel the whole fiasco. However, it’s billed as a vote on the final deal. Bollocks. The final deal won’t be known for years. A vote in the WA? Why?
What’s everyone should be asking, is why the UK is pretending current talks are about the future economic and trade relationship? OK, they say that the Irish situation would resolve itself if the future arrangements were known and appropriate, but that can’t happen. Trade talks under Article 218 can only take place one the UK is out.
So again, the puzzle is …. what the Hell are the Tories playing at here?
It goes further. The second referendum advocates also seem to have high expectations about what will be known soon. They really want a Remain vote. They are being disingenuous talking about a vote on ‘final deal’.
In Scotland civil service heads serve for five years. Or not as long. There seems to be a lot of them in Scotland. Duplicate.
A reminder for the coming few days:
– the EU already has an FTA with South Africa
– the 34 least developed African countries already benefit from tariff & quota free access to EU
– nearly all other African countries benefit from preferential access to EU via EPAs/GSP
link to twitter.com
Dr.jim 9.25pm. Maybe they’ll send their big aircraftless aircraft carrier to threaten the chagos islanders.Aye the writings definitely on the wall for these grubby nation stealing a***holes.
A very close friend of mine( who is now a pensioner) is, and has been, a member of Labour since her teens, we agree to disagree, recognises that the best way to elect a socialist government is for us to be Independent. She would never vote for any Party other than Labour. What can you do?
@Valerie says: 28 August, 2018 at 1:20 am:
” … I think it may be one aspect of the timing. The other issue might also be the hope that he remains embroiled if a GE is called, as everyone seems to think may happen.”
So much of the entire Scottish Independence subject is viewed by the public, politicians and administrative authorities as being only solvable via the ballot box and thus by the legally sovereign people of Scotland physically going out to vote for independence.
However, when it does actually come it may come from an entirely different direction than the election ballot box. It may come suddenly and from any level of the several legal systems from local courts to the international legal set-ups such as what is often referred to as, “The World Court”. This is a brief description of, “The International Court of Justice”. a.k.a. “The World Court”:-
Now just at the moment we here in Scotland are reading about the Chagos Islands. Here is a bit from John Pilger:-
link to johnpilger.com
This very small nation was also robbed of their sovereign rights by the Westminster Establishment and we now see that Westminster’s iron grip upon a seat at the World’s top table is becoming rather less strong and the World’s powers seem set on loosening that grip further.
BrUKexit is having unforeseen effects for the current Westminster Establishment. Now have a wee review of some of Nicola’s visits to the EU and Worldwide legal organisations. It may explain why there is so much pressure being exerted by some, including some Wingers, to hold a referendum now and her apparent reluctance to call one far too early.Remember the old saw -“There is more than one way to skin a cat”.
Toying with the idea of getting a Twitter account. I am starting to feel left out of the grand conspiracy. I am Macboticus and so is my cat.
The Herald bidding to be Scotland’s National Enquirer?
Clown says a no-deal Brexit ‘wouldn’t be the end of the world’
link to archive.is
Some trade facts as PM starts her 3 country “global Britain” Africa tour to open up new markets after Brexit.
link to twitter.com
Ian Brotherhood, I know seven on Arran off the top of my heid, could propably come up with a dozen if I thought about it.
@Greannach says: 28 August, 2018 at 9:26 am:
” … My uncle was a member and branch activist, but he died about 18 years ago.”
Aye! And so did the Labour Party in Scotland.
@ Socrates
And that article sits nicely beside a very zoomerish article from Mr Leask called meet the McBots, who are retweeting “Dissolve the Union”.
Given that’s my Twitter avatar, I’m now a McBot. I’m off to ask Leasky where I claim my back pay.
The most worrying aspect is Leask has got a NATO Think Tank on the job.
Weird, weird, weird.
‘Pensions Now and in Independent Scotland.’
”Dot Jessiman has drawn the relevant facts together to provide a straightforward response to the question:‘What would happen to my state pension with independence?’
link to newsnet.scot
………………………………
‘GERS: a silly season fixture?’
link to newsnet.scot
link to bbc.co.uk
Remember EBT’s – Well, I suspect we may be about to get a refresher course.
Last link for today
link to peterabell.blog
The National Letter page:
THE SCOTS DOLLAR?
”Voters look for courage, because courage suggests people have the nerve to see things through. The Growth Commission was criticised by one early commentator on Common Space, an economist as I recall, for “bottling it” on the currency.
This is exactly how the voters will see it, especially when our opponents put precisely that point to them.
The weakness, nay the feartie-ness, of sterlingisation is an open goal for our opponents’ delight. Let’s not go there.
I support the Common Weal position on a new Scots currency from day one of independence, however I have my own proposal as regards what it should be called.
I propose we call our currency the Scots dollar (SCD), and that it should constitute 100 Scots pennies and have parity with the English pound on day one of our independence.
In short exactly the same as the Common Weal proposals, only with a far better name.
Why is it a better name? For the following reasons:
1) The Scots dollar is a name which has historical resonance, for we had our own dollar of old, a silver coin originally worth 60 Scots schillings (ie three pounds) from the reign of James VI right up until 1709 when all Scots coinage supposedly ceased to exist;
2) The Scots dollar will have international resonance, joining the Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar, the New Zealand dollar, not to mention somebody else;
3) The Scots dollar sounds strong; the pound increasingly does not.
All hail the Scots dollar. Think about it, roll it around in your minds. Doesn’t it sound good?
Norman Easton
link to thenational.scot
The National Letters Page: ”Were European young musicians snubbed by BBC England?”
”I watched the Eurovision Young Musicians Final 2018 on BBC iPlayer. The six talented young European musicians performed in Edinburgh’s Usher Hall, accompanied by the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra in front of a world-class panel of judges.The broadcast was not in HD. Why? Yes you’ve guessed correctly. It was originally broadcast in Scotland on our version of BBC2. BBC2 England was showing a different schedule.
Despite having six of the finest young musicians in Europe, one of the best orchestras in Britain, and two nationally-known presenters, the BBC couldn’t bring themselves to broadcast the concert throughout the UK.
Was it because the word Eurovision was in the title? Was it because there were no British competitors in the final? Or was it simply because the programme was from Scotland? No viewers from south of the Border could possibly have any interest in watching it.
I hope the concert will at least be seen by some viewers in Wales, as it was a BBC Cymru production.”
Alan Laing Paisley
link to thenational.scot
Petra though I have no objection to being associated with Canada , Australia or New Zealand , despite having relatives in the other ‘dollar’ country , I have no wish to be associated with a country whose government has caused as much trouble around the world as the British Empire .
So please can we call it something , anything else??
‘Where Brexit will hurt most in Europe.’
….”The 72-page document compiled for the EU’s assembly of regional and local representatives includes submissions from 42 regions, municipalities, provinces and national delegations. Among the biggest concerns are the impact of Brexit on future trade, agriculture, fisheries, citizens returning from the U.K. and cuts to the EU budget post Brexit.
The questionnaire was sent to the organization’s 350 members at the end of September. An EU official explained that the committee has not “verified the veracity of the figures, that task has been left to the administrations that submitted them….”
…”A study published last month led by researchers at Erasmus University Rotterdam found that regions in Ireland face the most severe Brexit consequences, with potential economic exposure on par with the impact on regions of the U.K. that are currently most dependent on ties to the EU….
link to politico.eu
…………………………..
‘The continental divide? Economic exposure to Brexit in regions and countries on both sides of The Channel.’
…”Our results demonstrate that almost all UK regions are systematically more vulnerable to Brexit than regions in any other country…”
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
Petra at 7.30
I suspect they are rather wondering if there is an unexpected backlash taking place. I believe this is backfiring significantly.
What’s to stop some sensible Indy Labourites from setting up a party called Scottish Labour?
I suspect any Labour members on Arran will be relations of the Lord MacConnell?
Tereza May dances in Africa ( if thats what its called lol )
the pins were left at downing st .
@Ronnie Anderson –
A lot of us would be perfectly happy if May stayed in Africa and danced to her heart’s content.
Ian Brotherhood,
Heart! Whit heart?
🙂
Afternoon Dorothy at 9:31am.
If you drop Wings a msg via the contact button, ahm sure your order will be checked over and goodies sent on to you.
Have ye a bonnie day xx.
For the first time I’ve watched this ‘Protecting Ruth Davidson’ film. An eyeopener.
Published last year, and BBC Scotland gets a wee mention. 🙁
Bless.
link to tinyurl.com
Ian Brotherhood Comoan noo Ian the Commonwealth Countries in Africa dont need tae be inflicted wie the Britnat commander in chiefs rantings , hiv they no suffered enough being the former slaves colonies of the Great Britnat Empire .
Dance Dance wherever she may be, she’s no the lord of the dance say’s he Barnier .
Pompous arrogant Tory
video here
How kind of the UK Government to allow Scotland to vote in their [EU] referendum!
link to twitter.com
hello Cactus ! thanks for the advice , I was wondering if others were still standing by their letter boxes but perhaps you are right .
I’ll go nag the Rev!
@Nana
You can feel the love.
What an arrogant… (fill in as appropriate).
@ Dorothy Devine says at 11:03 am …. ”Petra though I have no objection to being associated with Canada, Australia or New Zealand, despite having relatives in the other ‘dollar’ country, I have no wish to be associated with a country whose government has caused as much trouble around the world as the British Empire. So please can we call it something, anything else??”
Maybe we should compile a list sometime or another Dorothy, have a vote and see what comes out of that.
…………………………..
@ Dave McEwan Hill says at 11:12 am …. ”Petra at 7.30 …. ”I suspect they are rather wondering if there is an unexpected backlash taking place. I believe this is backfiring significantly.”
I agree Dave. We’ve got right on our side and we WILL succeed with Indyref2. There’s no stopping us now.
Do former elected representatives and/or party officials and / or others get free membership for life? If so, that might go some way towards explaining the discrepancies.