The Broken Mike
Mike Russell, currently at the centre of controversy over his appointment as chair of the Scottish Land Commission, hit the political big stage during Scotland’s first ever SNP administration under Alex Salmond, whom, in turn, Mike had previously seen into office as Salmond’s campaign manager.
In 2007 he was appointed as Minister for Environment, then in 2009 he became the Minister for Culture, External Affairs and the Constitution, and his conventional ministerial career concluded when he went on to replace Fiona Hyslop as Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning until the end of 2014.
Following the 2014 independence vote, the pre-referendum era ended with Salmond’s dignified (albeit temporary) stage exit; Nicola Sturgeon took the helm and began to reform what had been left to her by her predecessor.
A core pillar of Sturgeon’s centrist reform was the construction of an almost entirely opaque ivory tower of power from which both SNP and the state would run their covert affairs with subversive, centralizing, strong-arm granularity, cleverly camouflaging its sinister implications from the public through cult-of-personality media management.
Instrumental in this, among a very few select others, was Mike Russell.
Under Sturgeon’s lead, everyone – from local authority to public body, government-affiliated charity, local group, party branch and all sorts of other public stakeholders – would spend the next 10 years losing agency and influence, while ‘gaining’ additional external, up-the-ladder oversight and decision makers, all of whose paths lead straight to and from the Sturgeon/Murrell front door.
While occupied at Glasgow University as Professor of Culture and Governance, Mike Russell’s first Sturgeon-era Scottish government appointment as Minister for UK Negotiations On Scotland’s Place In Europe in August 2016 came a matter of weeks after the Brexit referendum.
Readers will remember that period in Scottish politics as one of widespread fury. Representatives were barking their heads off in Westminster, Holyrood and the media, foaming at the mouth about the anti-democratic outrage of Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will. The SNP and Scottish Greens did their utmost to virtue-signal about how “we’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns” toward so-called “New Scots” into any microphone and camera within their grasp on a daily basis.
More than that: First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s inward-migration charm offensive (starting immediately after the Brexit vote, with the strategic masterstroke of sending a letter to every obtainable Scottish address where a New Scot might have been known to reside, stating that non-UK and EU citizens were ‘welcome and valued’’ here) was so successfully projected across all of the UK that a significant number of utterly Brexit-scunnered rUK residents, many of them English, moved to Scotland.
They came to join our wee rebel nation in the hope that uprooting their lives would protect them from losing their personal EU citizenship and all the other obvious negative consequences observably flowing from Britain’s leaving the EU.
In theory, this not only aided Scotland’s particularly precarious population growth (half of which was entirely dependent on EU citizens migrating here), but also, according to polls from the time, also significantly bolstered support for Scottish independence, especially from within the ‘Other’ (read: non-Scots) quarter which thus far had been roundly scapegoated for preventing a YES win at the 2014 indy ref.
By June 2018, Russell had returned to the corridors of Sturgeon’s inner sanctum, appointed to go and see men about dogs as Scotland’s Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations. Readers may recall him publishing cognitively defective “strategy” like his infamous 11-Point Plan, which was hailed as the assured route guaranteed to lead Scotland to the holy well of independence.
In May 2018 the Scottish government had published the Sustainable Growth Commission; an incredibly lengthy, neoliberal, integrity-void independence “white paper”, produced by Andrew Wilson (a former SNP MP, then of mysterious lobbying group Charlotte Street Partners) on behalf of the Scottish Government – seemingly ‘selflessly’, without any monetary reward what so ever.
As you will no doubt recall, within the Scottish political landscape and among the people of Scotland the Growth Commission went down not entirely unlike the Brexit referendum lead balloon from a few years earlier, and Mike Russell received his latest deployment orders as the Trusty Wet Blanket of Flame Extinguishment.
It was then, after the roaring non-success of his previous appointment, that I – in my then role as creative director for EU Citizens for an Independent Scotland – first had the lasting displeasure of having to interact with Russell personally.
A theme of fly-by-gaslight strategy was swiftly emerging in the way he handled all his professional affairs: “Problem? What problem? I think you’ll find I have been very clear in saying that we take full responsibility for openly claiming we never promised to take responsibility.”
He took the same approach when the independence grassroots grew discontentedly restless, having been marched up the indy hill twice by their tartan-heeled First Woman Minister. While SNP internal democracy was being effectively and perceptibly eroded away from the membership, tangible steps that would have been undeniable indicators of the Scottish government’s preparing the way towards independence continued to be notable only by their absence.
During his tenure as Secretary for Government Business and Constitutional Relations the party’s NEC was reformed (chiefly by Angus Robertson) to remove a significant number of membership-elected representatives and to include a number of seats directly appointed by and filled through Nicola Sturgeon’s inner circle and staffers.
Party conferences were either being cancelled or gutted to remove any opportunity for meaningful, democratic debate on policy, strategy and internal transparency. The SNP’s CEO, the First Minister’s husband, Peter Murrell, had personally implemented a policy that made it next to impossible for local party branches to effectively contact and coordinate with each other.
In his time as Glasgow Uni’s lecturer on Culture and Governance, Mike Russell might have had something valuable to say publicly about such anti-democratic manipulation of governance procedures and what devastating effect they would have on the political culture, not just of a single political party but an entire nation. But from within the Cabinet, not a peep was heard.
Russell accepted the honorary position of SNP President at the SNP’s November 2020 conference. But he made no efforts to resolve the questions troubling a growing number of members: what actually happened with the £600k+ independence campaign crowdfunder? Why is Scotland imprisoning a whistle-blower journalist? Why do membership policies overwhelmingly voted for through established SNP democratic processes get silently binned without any hint of party-wide discussion?
And, pivotally: Why is the First Minister’s SNP CEO husband refusing to offer any access to, nor meaningful explanation of, the party’s financial accounts, not even to the party’s own elected financial office-bearers?
He did, however, take up the role of head of the SNP’s “independence unit” (isn’t the entire SNP supposed to be an “independence unit”?) in 2021, standing attentively by the fire extinguisher as an series of further underwhelming “white papers” have been intermittently produced and universally ignored, and “broadcasting platforms” and “rebuttal units” have sputtered briefly then vanished, or simply never happened at all.
Before suddenly resigning to take up his controversial new role, Russell spent most of his three year SNP presidency repeating that everything was absolutely fine (“we’ve got LOADS of members!”), the party accounts were in perfect order (“as per my last letters…”) and that any issues with life, the universe and everything should be directed to sauron666@westminster.gov.uk.
Every political open wound Mike Russell has been sent in to apply a sticking plaster to in the last decade went on to fester under his Band-Aid facade, right up until the unmistakable stench of backbone necrosis became impossible to ignore, or for even Russell to continue deny.
And then, once again, Mike Russell’s re-deployment orders arrive.
We know what he wants people to think about the reasons that made him decide to resign the from the prestigious role of SNP President – alongside his actual decades-long party membership – in order to take a self-sacrificing career step down to become the Chair of the Scottish Land Commission, five years after the average UK male retirement age and three years after Russell had said he was too old to continue as an MSP.
But readers might wish to note a statement released by the Scottish Land Commission itself immediately after Mike’s article was published, in which SLC essentially state that they neither asked for nor had intended to hire Mike Russell themselves but that the Scottish Government is the final decision maker in this – as far as they are concerned – still ongoing recruitment process.
This should strike you as an extraordinary event, especially given that it directly challenges the government’s and Russell’s narrative. If you should be wondering whether the previous SLC chair that Mr Russell is set to replace may just have been an ineffective hack, ideologically unsuited for the job, you might want some background.
Andrew Thin had been the SLC Chair since 2017, getting formally reappointed by the Scottish government every couple of years since taking on the role. He recently announced his departure from this position just 16 days after his most recent re-appointment, discreetly declining to offer any explanation of how that decision came about.
The tone and thrust of his public statements while still fulfilling his role are clear, show genuine commitment to meaningful, systematic land reform, and bravely do not shy away from challenging the default non-reform mode of the government he was appointed by.
If you have ever had an interest in and desire for pro-social land reform for Scotland, then Andrew Thin’s sudden departure from the Scottish Land Commission and the foisting in of a political appointee to fill his very big boots should make you concerned about what plans must be in motion for land reform underneath the muddied political surface of the post-Sturgeon era.
The fact that the chosen candidate for that foisted appointment turns out to be Mike Russell really ought to send ice-cold shivers down your moral spine.
For a man who raised Alex Salmond to Holyrood power, went on to prove himself as loyal to the Ivory Tower Of Sturgeonite Power as a mercenary’s commitment to a cart of gold, and announced his retirement from Holyrood in 2020 when things started getting a bit too complex for him to handle, Mike Russell has shown himself to be surprisingly short-fused as well as lacking in strategic insight and conveniently oblivious to both his own and any of his handlers’ shortcomings.
For the sake of the long-suffering cause of land reform, we can only hope that a man whose record is that of a flag-waving, wilfully-blind pallbearer undergoes some sort of Damascene conversion when freed from the straitjacket of party politics.
.
Ellen Joëlle Dalzell is the Founder and Director of community campaign design agency Artivism Scotland. Holiday Boy is on holiday again.
Thanks Ellen (+Rev) for another piece lifting the lid on the fermenting cesspit of cronyism and incompetence that is the SNP.
Indy for Scotland!
SNP Out!
Thanks.Been waiting years for someone to explain what’s really been going down with that little bastard Sturgeon
Paragraph ending in ‘but an entire nation.’ is repeated.
There has to be something wrong with “democracy” when we elect our brothers and sisters to govern us and then all they do is look after themselves.
There should be a better system where we can unelect them quicker than after four or five years.
Great article, but now I’m festering sad!
The sheep in wolfs clothing is the devolution parliament sent up here to manage all aspects of Scotland,
The SNP pretending to discuss immigration is a reserved matter to UK parliament as far as I understand,
There is no such thing as Scottish passports for EU citizens, they are under Uk.
Many of the burbled issues that foam from the mouths of these politicians in holyrood parliament are not for Scotland to decide under the devolved government Scotland Act,
And Spouse @ 15.34
It would be nice if we even had a procedure to recall errant MSPs individually (think former Finance Minister Mr Mackay on full salary & expenses for over a year without even going into Holyrood).
Unfortunately when Mr Blair & Mr Dewar inflicted the D’Hondt closed list system on Scotland they also neglected to build any safeguards into the basic administrative system of Holyrood.
I’m so angry I can’t type…..
Not much hope of that Damascene conversion. Seems ‘too old’, by own admission, to stop keeping on doing the ‘same old… same old….. same old………. thing’.
Here we go again, one more time ladies and Gentlemen, as the broken record shifts around from one position to another, getting scratchier and still scratchier with each new move.
I used to think well of him. But that was a long time ago. No longer!
I believe the text about the real ‘Damascene conversion’, concerning Saul (later re-named Paul) of Tarsus, said something to the effect that ‘the scales fell from his eyes’.
So much for Paul.
Can’t see any such scales falling from the eyes of Broken Mike. But maybe they have from mine – at least in regard to him.
These kind of ‘scales’ make people blind. And when the blind lead the blind, the crash into the inevitable pit (or pitfall) will be mighty. In his case, so far at least, it just gets mightier and mightier!
Mike Russell should do himself and the world a favour. Get in that grave you disgusting old fart.
Excellent article, it just about sums up Mike Horsebox Russell, and the SNP post Alex Salmond (2015 onwards).
Ah, so Mike Russell was a Professor of Culture and Governance at the University of Glasgow.
What is it with the University of Glasgow elevating entirely unqualified and inexperienced candidates to Professorial status (this is a rhetorical question as the answer will become apparent)?
In May 2000 the Herald exposed Deputy Director of the Lockerbie Trial Briefing Unit, Andrew Fulton as a senior MI6 officer. Fulton had been granted the position of Professor of Law the previous year despite never having practiced the discipline (Fulton was a graduate of the School of Law at the University of Glasgow but was recruited by MI6 while still a student).
In August 2022, the University made Director of The John Smith Centre (formerly John Smith Centre for Public Service), Kezia Dugdale a Professor of Practice in Public Service. Dugdale lacks the PhD which would normally be required for a Professorship and has no verifiable teaching experience.
The University of Glasgow is a veritable hotbed of activities for the British, Secret Intelligence Services.
University alumni of interest include Elizabeth Smith née Bennett (The Baroness Smith of Gilmorehill). Smith read Russian at the University of Glasgow and went on to work with Sir Fitzroy MacLean at the GB – USSR Association, before becoming a Director at Hakluyt.
Also, “Meta” Ramsay, a contemporary of Smith and a senior MI6 officer specialising in Scandinavian issues.
One notable graduate from the University would be Director General of MI5, Ken McCallum 2020 to present. McCallum graduated with 1st class honours in Mathematics 1996.
This article explains why Humza managed to climbed the greasy pole arse first.
Excellent piece from Joelle.
I’m sure the quote from Craig Dalzell’s Common Weal piece she references will encourage some, and enrage all the usual suspects. Perhaps one of Rev Stu’s future polls could usefully update the figures? Imagine if it transpires that New Scots voting disproportionately Yes actually tipped the balance of a future vote from No to Yes.
That’d mean the nativists calling for New Scots voting rights to be restricted wouldn’t accept such a result as valid, right….?
One of my biggest bugbears when it comes to Scottish independence polling is the lack of basic data on sentiment amongst “New Scots”. The best we have at all comes from Panelbase (which is one of the reasons I study their polls more closely than those from other companies) and even that is woefully insufficient. Results are broken down by country of birth only into three categories. Scotland, England and “Other”. This means that the poll combines results for EU and non-EU immigrants with immigrants to Scotland from Wales and Northern Ireland. I understand the reasons for not breaking sub-samples down into much smaller categories (see the 2021 Demographics of Independence paper for details of that methodology) but I really would plead with polling orgs to at least provide a column showing Country of Birth as Scotland, rUK and Other (and for efforts to be made to break “Other” into EU and Non-EU).
Such that it is though, “Other” voters are now by far and away the most pro-independence demographic in Scotland, exceeding even those born in Scotland by a substantial margin and have hit their highest level of support for independence ever. Voters born in England have seen a similar boost in support for independence, also approaching record levels ever. The boost amongst voters born in Scotland has been much more muted however though the worrying drop in support observed throughout late 2020 and into 2021 appears to have arrested in 2022 and at least partially recovered.
https://commonweal.scot/update-indy-demographics/
In the olden days, when politics was a career for the statesmen and stateswomen with integrity, rectitude and courage, paid with small money and large gratitude, things were difficult but sane.
Lobbying brought money in and politics attracted the greedy, narcissistic sociopaths and psychopaths, in it for themselves and nobody else.
Personality cults, financial scandals, corruption, drugs and other abhorrent deviant practices (Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself) are par for the course with these defectives.
We are governed by the worst dregs in our midst.
It’s time to pull the guillotine back from the museum.
Mike, the man who went down to Westminster to negotiate the “vow” and came back with nothing….I wonder why Mike ?
@Sven 15.34pm
It would be nice if we even had a procedure to recall errant MSPs individually…
The right of recall by voters and of impeachment of MSPs should be high on the list of things to do for the first post independence administration.
I seem to recall that in Ireland the only way for a TD to be removed is if they are declared bankrupt, or sentenced to a jail term of more than 6 months. Opinion in Ireland seems split on the issue of recall elections for TDs, as there are a lot of TDs elected with a fairly small number of first preference votes in their STV system. Some regard having recall votes as a threat to the representation of minority parties, but I suppose it would depend how low the threshold was set for calling a recall vote?
I know that in Denmark they have a special impeachment court which can impeach current or former ministers, which is composed of 15 Supreme court Justices and 15 people appointed by the Danish Parliament, the Folketing (though sitting MPs cannot serve). A simple majority in the Folketing can initiate the process. I quite like the sound of that…!
“More than that: First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s inward-migration charm offensive (starting immediately after the Brexit vote, with the strategic masterstroke of sending a letter to every obtainable Scottish address where a New Scot might have been known to reside, stating that non-UK and EU citizens were ‘welcome and valued’’ here) was so successfully projected across all of the UK that a significant number of utterly Brexit-scunnered rUK residents, many of them English, moved to Scotland.”
I was at a local event today. To begin with their were 13 of us in the hall – 2 of us were Scots – the rest from Englandshire. By the time the two of us left the hall there were 25 people of whom 5 were Scots. I doubt whether man of these white settlers would vote Yes in another referendum and I know at least some of them definitely would not. This in an area that gained over 50% of a Yes vote in 2014. I despair.
Great piece but missing one essential element. MR fused two separate education agencies together to ensure that no genuine critique could take place of government policy. We no longer have a politically independent Inspectorate or school improvement service. Hence the painful decline in our once respected education system.
Cronyism and mediocrity go hand in hand.
Just hoping this is Russell’s last posting before going back to his handlers in Whitehall
Excellent article, Ellen. Are we surprised about anything to do with the compromised and corrupted SNP leadership?
I think many of us concluded that the SNP were lost regarding land reform when banker Benny Higgins, who held a land manager position with the Duke of Buccleuch, became an adviser to the First Minister.
No chance of even discussing Graeme McCormick’s annual ground rent scheme after that, or any other radical measures which might threaten the powerful vested interests of landowners in Scotland.
Meanwhile Danish billionaire Anders Holch Povlsen owns 221,000 acres in Scotland. Of course in his own country, foreigners simply cannot purchase land like that.
The benefits of independence, eh?
£400k a year quango job. Everything that is wrong with Scotland is embodied in this arsehole.
@4:04.
And imagine if it didn’t?
Respondents to an *opinion poll* are not actually voting intentions. I could say anything I wanted to someone cold calling me. It doesn’t mean it’s how I actually intend on voting in the booth on the day.
The *natives* have already been analysed in a real time event. 2014.
***The Scottish Referendum Study; It is run by academics at the universities of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Essex, and is funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.***
Are you suggesting they’re moon howlers too?
Regardless, Scotlands constitution is for Scotland. It’s their treaty. Not settlers & ppls auntie Jeannie to decide who’d quite like to move to to what’s fast becoming a massive nursing home.
Polling should show a breakdown of demographics.
£400K? Seriously?
@4:04.
And imagine if it didn’t?
Respondents to an *opinion poll* are not actually voting intentions. I could say anything I wanted to someone cold calling me. It doesn’t mean it’s how I actually intend on voting in the booth on the day.
The *natives* have already been analysed in a real time event. 2014.
***The Scottish Referendum Study; It is run by academics at the universities of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Essex, and is funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.***
Are you suggesting they’re moon howlers too?
Regardless, Scotlands constitution is for Scotland. It’s their treaty. It’s their country. Not incomers & ppls auntie Jeannie from across the border to decide her status.
Incomers who’d quite like to move to to what’s fast becoming a massive free nursing home.
This is nothing controversial. Every country follows it, including the English government.
Polling should show a breakdown of demographics. Tho I don’t see much point for the reasons already stipulated. No one knows until they’re actually in a voting booth.
@Andy Ellis
“That’d mean the nativists calling for New Scots voting rights to be restricted wouldn’t accept such a result as valid, right….?”
Restricted voting rights for non-nationals is accepted practice internationally. Few people in those many other countries would appreciate being referred to as “nativists” for merely doing what they and others have been doing for years. What’s so different about Scotland complying with what everyone else considers as perfectly normal? BTW, I’ve lived in several other countries so know, first-hand, that voting-restrictions for non-nationals is unquestionably the case.
While I don’t live in Scotland, I have no objection to Scottish independence, but it seems to me a majority will never vote for the level of economic restructuring that would be needed to make an independent Scotland viable. That is the heart of the problem. The SNP clearly understands this and has recognised their only approach can be to pretend this is not the case, and focus on a never to be forthcoming referendum and keep taking the money. While the only focus is trying (but failing) to get a referendum, no need to speak about the realities of independence and everybody’s happy. Salmond must have known this too.
Mike Russell is such a disappointment but I’ve read through the grapevine, from those who’ve worked with him in Holyrood, that he is a plant.
I remember during Brexit – one of my followers on twitter kept tagging him on her eviction back to the EU & he continually ignored her questions & concerns. It was awful. Her Belgian husband was disabled & her autistic teenage daughter was adamant she was staying in Scotland. She ended up leaving with absolutely no help from Mike & the SNP.
Coward? Plant? Or Hen pecked by Sturgeon to be a completely useless buffoon who just nods along to instructions? SNP seems to have a real problem with shuffling around FAILURES instead of showing them the door – or maybe that’s the plan. Forever stagnant & devoid of any progress suits the Brit establishment just fine.
He
What do we see here other than a fake nationalist feeding at the colonial trough for decades who retires on a colonial pension and is then invited back to the colonial trough. Never a Scottish nationalist in his puff. If he had any interest in independence, as constitution minister he would have parked a Scottish Government delegation in the UN Decolonization Committee C-24 until we were liberated.
Vivian O’Blivion @ 4:00 pm:
“The University of Glasgow is a veritable hotbed of activities for the British, Secret Intelligence Services.”
Looks to be the case, handing out professorships willy-nilly to ex politicians (i.e non-intellectuals) who helped block independence and each lacking the normally required doctoral research qualification. But what pro-independence research do we see from any of Scotland’s 19 higher education institutions? Answer is None. No anti-colonial research is published never mind funded by colonial institutions.
Antoine Roquentin
Absolutely.
& ‘Natives’ on here aren’t restricting voters. There should be a set limit on residency & no fudging results with Holiday homes & Landlords.
No other country allows new incomers to decide their constitution. It’s a no brainer & why every country follows int best practice. No country has a free for all.
Especially one with a hostile neighbour.
@Geri 4.04 pm
Time will tell no doubt. Single polls don’t tell us much of course, but that hasn’t stopped nativists fetishising the one study showing that non-native born voters flipped the 2014 vote. Of course I don’t think those who carried out the research and/or polling are moonholwers, any more than I or any reasonable person would attribute such views to any organisation commissioned to to such work. You’re straw manning won’t work with me, take it elsewhere. Or of course, the ignore button is now an option.
How ever many times people here compare apples with oranges, others will point it out. The international custom and practice for self determination referendums is to use residence criteria, similar to – and often in fact more lenient – than that used in 2014 for #indyref1. It’s simply factually wrong to say every country would or does follow a restrictive franchise for self determination votes, or would deny those not born there or who hadn’t been resident for “x” years.
Your mistrust of polling is noted. We (and the original OP referred to) agree that the demographics should be broken down more, but absent a sudden surge of polling on this specific issue, the later polling referred to in Craig Dalzell’s piece is just as valid (and more recent) as the polling/study you reference.
Of course the only real test is an actual vote, and polls can be inaccurate or just wrong, but you can’t just ignore polls because you don’t like the results, particularly if there were to be a number suggesting a trend.
@Antoine Roquentin 6.17pm
You’re not comparing like with like. The citizenship based franchise used by already independent countries is decidedly NOT the usual practice for self determination referendums. The vast majority of these since WW2 have used broad, residence based criteria to determine who was allowed to participate.
Post independence, Scotland will like all other nations be free to have it’s own citizenship criteria. However, anyone advocating the restriction of the current franchise – which would render it out of place with international custom and practice despite your assertion – is leaving themselves open to the appelation of nativism. It’s certainly not civic nationalism, not does it have any appreciable political support in pro-independence parties.
A voting franchise that favours the incomer disenfranchises the indigenous people
**Of course the only real test is an actual vote,**
Aye & imagine if you will, the UK government finally agrees in 10 yrs time..
20 yrs we’d have waited to get THE EXACT SAME RESULT.
England is already in action watering down the pool.
Scotland doesn’t need to be different, kind, absolutely bonkers just to appease voters who may not even wish to stick around.
It’s insanity to repeat failure in the hope you’ll maybe get the right result.
Besides, they’re not Sovereign Scots so the constitution isn’t up for debate. They have their own constitution to concern themselves with.
Brexit wasn’t a free for all. Neither is General Elections. Scotland shouldn’t be singled out because you think it’d be nice.
XL Bullies are trans labradors you bigots
and new labradors are labradors
there are only dogs, and breeds do not exist
civic dogitalism is the only way
make the case for NOT-BITING to the Soft Noes of the trans labrador community
we need a DRR so XL bullies are legally labradors by identification and can enter the childrens petting zoo and be taken round the old folks homes
Andy Ellis @ 4:06 pm
“Imagine if it transpires that New Scots voting disproportionately Yes actually tipped the balance of a future vote from No to Yes.”
A widna haud ma breith. Dalzell’s data shows ‘new Scots’ (sic) from England (who account for over half of all in-migration to Scotland) still voting 70%+ against liberation of their host nation’s people.
‘Others’ at approx 50:50 Yes/No is better, however since Brexit this will be a reducing percentage of the vote overall.
The data does not substantiate in any way the article statement that “a significant number of utterly Brexit-scunnered rUK residents, many of them English, moved to Scotland” or that this necessarily raises the Yes vote. The voting preference data suggests it does not, especially for those from England.
People do not move to another country in order to liberate its people; they generally move for their own socio-economic advantage and the data confirms that most ‘new Scots’ continue to actively oppose and block our liberation.
@Geri 6.36pm
No other country allows new incomers to decide their constitution.
That’s just factually inaccurate Geri. Do the research. Come back and tell us the franchises for all the self determination referendums since WW2 you can find.
The franchise to qualify for citizenship post independence, or to participate in constitutional votes after independence, are decidedly different from the custom and practice of who gets to vote in self determination referendums.
No amount of wishful thinking will change the facts.
& you are correct. I don’t much trust polling.
People can say what they like. It doesn’t need to match reality on the day.
Renfrewshire by-election for example – it was supposedly going to be a labour landslide. Hardly the earthquake everyone anticipated. 60% didn’t even put their coat on.
Brexit was never gonnie happen either & Corbyn was gonnie win the GE for a ppls vote..
Those didn’t romp home either despite polsters. D’oh!
Not blaming polsters but the public doesn’t need to be honest when earning their reward points filling in a survey.
For the record his salary looks to be around £13 000 pa. -1 day a week
Not the 400K made up by yoon fantasist Den.
https://www.landcommission.gov.scot/downloads/63c030b46397f_SLC%20Annual%20Report%202021-22%20English.pdf
Page 34
Pro rata c.£90 000 full time
One might have imagined that an expert on land reform in Scotland would be appointed, someone like, oh I don’t know, Andy Wightman.
I realise that I’m being somewhat naive in making this comment.
Andy Ellis @ 7:04 pm
“That’s just factually inaccurate Geri.”
On the contrary, the Belfast Agreement between the British and Irish Governments defines ‘the people of Northern Ireland’ as comprising ‘all persons born in Northern Ireland..’.
I assume you still maintain that this would be too ‘blood and soil’ for Scotland?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/619500728fa8f5037d67b678/The_Belfast_Agreement_An_Agreement_Reached_at_the_Multi-Party_Talks_on_Northern_Ireland.pdf
@rev Stu £400k plus incentives.. par for the course for Scotlands on message Quango chiefs. Source: Caltonjock
@Geri 6.56 pm
It’s not me you have to convince Geri, it’s the rest of the movement and the international community. Neither of them agrees with nativism. Alex Salmond and Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh both publicly poured water on the franchise restriction case.
Unlike you and a minority of others. we’re not ready to throw the civic nationalist baby out with the nativist bath water. There isn’t likely to be a referendum in any reasonable timescale, on that at least, we are agreed. Plebiscitary elections are the way forward.
Scotland isn’t being singled out: you and others are the ones advocating singling Scotland out by proposing a self determination franchise nobody else uses, and which risks jeopardising international recognition.
wullie @ 6:55 pm
“A voting franchise that favours the incomer disenfranchises the indigenous people”
The Belfast Agreement and hence the British and Irish Governments appear to agree with you Wullie, in that the self-determination of ‘the people of Northern Ireland’ will be restricted to ‘persons born in Northern Ireland’.
The UN-sanction franchise used in New Caledonia is another instance, where ‘secondary criteria’ limiting the votes of non-indigenous peoples sought to protect the rights of the indigenous population to self-determination.
@vivianoblivion
GU has been rotten since way back; around 1910 there was a history professor called Rait, who was well-in with the Milner crowd, i.e. the people who ran the empire at the time. This comes out of Quigley’s AAE. Actual conspiratorial skulldguggery.
– there are some queer things in that book; like Lionel Curtis thought Scotland was the model for how Ireland should be treated (! – worked well, …) and that in 1919 the commons passed a motion 187-34 calling for the devolution of all host nations (nothing happened). Of interest to Che/Xaracen – this would have meant a new “english parliament” and maybe that was thought too much a can of worms no one wanted to open. In an abstract sense it was consistent with their plan of a world, federated, empire.
The Milner Group/Rhodes are the intellectual godfathers of the modern west, they set up chatham house, LSE, so many institutions, the rituals at the cenotaph and their ideas are embedded in the DNA of the US foreign policy folks. They are the original “globalists”.
Well worth a read, but a review would be too long.
@johnlm as reported on Carlton Jock as I stated , but you go ahead and believe what your spoonfed by the Scottish Government websites . The £600k is woven through the accounts 🙂 Some people never learn fucking idiot
@Alf Baird 7.19pm
The franchise for a future border poll is in the gift of the Secretary of State. The Good Friday Agreement is (intentionally?) somewhat vague.
“As part of the Good Friday Agreement, an explicit provision for holding a Northern Ireland border poll was made in UK law. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 states that “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.
It is not clear exactly what would satisfy this requirement. The Constitution Unit suggests that a consistent majority in opinion polls, a Catholic majority in a census, a nationalist majority in the Northern Ireland Assembly, or a vote by a majority in the Assembly could all be considered evidence of majority support for a united Ireland. However, the Secretary of State must ultimately decide whether the condition has been met.
The Order in Council must specify the details of the poll, including the date, franchise, the question and “any other provision about the poll which the Secretary of State thinks expedient”. The referendum would be regulated under the UK’s Political Parties, Election and Referendums Act 2000 and overseen by the UK Electoral Commission, which would have a statutory duty to assess the “intelligibility” of the referendum question.
The legislation stipulates that a secretary of state may not make provision for a border poll within seven years of a previous poll.”
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/irish-reunification
For the idiot Johnlm lifted from Carlton Jock: December 2023:?A row broke out after it emerged the SNP-led Government appointments committee had nominated Michael Russell to be chair of the Scottish Land Commission SLC Quango on a split decision.?Russell had stood down as SNP President in anticipation of being appointed to the near £400,000 annual salary and incentives post. A full vote of MSP’s will now consider the appointment at Holyrood.
Keep taking the koolaid .. knob
pwgc @ 6.26.
I was with you all the way until your final sentence about Alex Salmond.
The SNP has been a complete fraud since he resigned as leader. Sturgeon and her gang completely conned the people for years into thinking they were genuine about independence, which was the last thing they wanted
There was no pretence about Alex. He actually achieved the goal of getting a referendum. The SNP did a hatchet job on him to stop him coming back and having another (successful) go. That enabled the SNP to carry on with their fraud without a threat from someone of his calibre.
Their desperation to stop him is shown by the depths to which they sank in trying to frame him for things he didn’t do.
They came to think that they were untouchable, and with absolute power, became absolutely corrupted, which led inevitably to them forcing disastrous policies on an unwilling people. Such is the way in politics.
The SNP will pay the penalty of their hubris:they have become their own nemesis. And if they don’t finish themselves off, Alex Salmond will continue to be the other nemesis who will do the job and put them out of their miserable existence.
It can’t come too soon.
@Den
Post your sources before I have to correct your ramblings in future.
Prick !
Andy Ellis @ 7:37 pm
‘the people of Norther Ireland’ are specifically defined in the Belfast Agreement. The British and Irish Governments both agreed that the self-determination of ‘the people of Northern Ireland’ will be restricted to ‘persons born in Northern Ireland’.
The question you do not wish to address is why this is not also the case for the self-determination of Scots?
A key word here is ‘self’; self-determination generally excludes peoples from other countries because they retain their own rights to self-determination within their country of origin.
The UN also maintains that the self-determination of ‘a people’ should not be subject to interference by other peoples, governments, media etc. Indyref 2014 was clearly subject to considerable ‘external interference’, the latter costing Scots their liberation.
@Alf Baird 7.54pm
Even if it is true that the Secretary of State seats the franchise as being only those born in Northern Ireland, rather than something else, the reason it isn’t particularly germane to this discussion (any more than the cases of New Caledonia or Timor L’Este which are unequivocally cases of non self governing territories) is that Northern Ireland isn’t the same, due to the nature of the relationship between the Republic of Ireland and the UK and the international treaty aimed at dealing with the end of the troubles.
The more interesting question is why you so determinedly ignore the many more much more similar examples of residence based franchises for independence referendums, including all the former republics of the USSR and Yugoslavia?
None of those examples excluded peoples from other countries. A number of them had MORE inclusive franchises than ours in 2014. Some of the former Soviet republics even enfranchised Soviet army personel from elsewhere in the USSR!
The people chiefly responsible for Scotland not being independent now are the Scots who failed to vote for it.
@Johnlm correcting me???? Don’t make me fucking laugh , however your suggestion from your sources that Mike Russell would get outta bed for £13k a year gave me a chuckle, you’d get more for cleaning caravans at Parkdean one day a week. It’s because of gullible idiots like you swallowing the SG bullshit this country is in the mess it’s in. Keep swallowing and don’t spill fannybaws ?
It’s still a mystery as to why Alec Salmond hasn’t simply whipped his kek’s down so that he can turn his arse in the SNP leadership’s direction in order to blow the mid-wits away with the whiff of his fart.
That’s all the guy would need to do in order to vanquish the mid-witted imbeciles.
Humza Yousef, for example, is among the ugliest motherf*ckers to ever prowl this landmass that we call Scotland. Nobody likes the mid-wit. No offence to the guy, but it’s the truth.
Salmond should ditch the startup, and then simply seize control of the main vehicle. Dislodging these mid-witted Muppets would be easier than lifting a feather with one of those litter-picker thingies that a school janitor carries around.
Another of the posts on wings that has visceral effect. Thank you Ellen. In so many aspects of life we see the impact that the individual can make. People matter. We matter.
Alf: have you never noticed that anything that is not ‘orthodoxy’ is never studied? Can you imagine a PhD student doing a thesis on rUK voters and their antipathy to Scottish independence? No, neither can I. Or to investigate ‘trans’ sexual crimes? Nope, me neither. Free thinking is not encouraged in any university in Scotland, in the UK or in the West these days. Toe the line is the maxim. That is what we are up against: sheeple and the captured. We are going to have to declare our independence unilaterally, in the end. That is a very interesting point about NI. Had forgotten about that. Mind you, they by-passed Scotland and allowed NI to remain in the EU while also being a part of the Brexited UK, so I wouldn’t go holding my breath. They always seem to make an exception of us, and never in a good way.
Ah , ol Mikeee wae the wee goateee ( he drove the slowest horsebox in the west – Mikeeeeee ) .
Doesn’t he just exude gravytas ( sic ) . Takes real skill to be so useless for so long and in so many different areas n still be in receipt of hefty wedge courtesy of the public pap . All that time studying under the Master , the Gollum of Grift , the Liberace of Celtic Rock ie Sir P Wish has proved invaluable .
He’ll make an excellent No Man’s Land Reform form-filler and will do his utmost to ensure not a single acre of land is reformed without proper queues being formed and the correct forms filled . Inertia will be respected at all times .
The Counter-Land-Reformation begins : by 2030 the Highlands will be for sale on Amazon , you’ll be able to bid for Glesga on eBay n- if Mike’s still around , buy yr maw Perth for her birthday .
Ah ! but no if yr Scottish ; you’ll be skink AF n wondering WTF happened to Scotland
Good grief – not nativism again.
Practicalities folks – who will be tasked with collating this new franchise?
Andy Ellis @ 8:05 pm
“the reason …is that Northern Ireland isn’t the same”
Ireland was a colony of England, Northern Ireland remains a colony of England, and Scotland is likewise still a colony of England.
The people of Northern Ireland and the people of Scotland both seek self-determination and independence, which the UN refer to as decolonization.
Fundamentally we are therefore the same and Scots should insist on a similar self-determination franchise to that of Northern Ireland.
The link below is to a long discussion over a broad range involving two economists. Essentially they are showing us the money. Though the references are to the USA economy what is said has application to the UK, including Scotland and the SNP.
Take it in chunks. I think it is worth it.
http://www.progressivepulse.org/economics/steve-keen-and-michael-hudson
Why do people insist on saying that Sturgeon had a personality cult. When everyone knows Sturgeon doesn’t have a personality.
@KT Lorimer 8.38pm
The Office of the Franchise Inquisitor perhaps? Maybe we’ll have to show our birth certificates at the polling place? Perhaps they’ll enfranchise the circa 800,000 Scots born folk in the diaspora?
I seem to remember hearing the Catalans compiled a completely new electoral register for their referendum. They also allowed Catalans abroad to vote, and – just imagine – had an even broader franchise than ours in 2014.
@Alf Baird 8.48pm
You saying Scotland is a colony, and it being true, are two different things Alf. I know quite a few agree with you and some probably see some colonial aspects to the relationship and are prepared to accept it – at a stretch – as a rhetorical device. I doubt many Irish folk accept that the experiences of Scotland and Ireland are comparable, still less the same: I know none of the Irish folk I know give it any credence, nor I suspect do most Scots really buy it.
More importantly of course, the UN doesn’t buy it either: if they did we’d be on the list of non self governing territories wouldn’t we?
“In theory, this not only aided Scotland’s particularly precarious population growth (half of which was entirely dependent on EU citizens migrating here), but also, according to polls from the time, also significantly bolstered support for Scottish independence, especially from within the ‘Other’ (read: non-Scots) quarter which thus far had been roundly scapegoated for preventing a YES win at the 2014 indy ref.”
Wasn’t there research by Edinburgh Uni which suggested that a majority of Scots Born people voted for Indy, and if I remember correctly the polls said that EU and English Nationals were 3 to 1 against Independence
Andy Ellis @ 9:05 pm
“More importantly of course, the UN doesn’t buy it either: if they did we’d be on the list of non self governing territories wouldn’t we?”
The UN regarded Ireland as a former colony so there seems no reason not to add Scotland onto the List. That should have been the responsibility of the Constitutional Minister Michael Russell but he wasted his and our time knocking on the door of 10 Downing St, the ‘administrative power’, rather than the door of UN C-24, the vehicle of self-determination. The UN has as yet no concept of Scotland’s predicament mainly because no nationalist politician has bothered or been able to explain it.
Scotland has aye been portrayed as ‘an aberration’, much as Ireland once was too, but evidence of our ‘colonial condition’ is all around us still, and within us, and has even been removed from our re-written history, a colonial norm, as is a violated treaty.
Colonialism is ‘like a cancer, it only seeks to spread’ (Cesaire).
@Alf Baird
“Northern Ireland remains a colony of England,”
https://sluggerotoole.com/2024/01/06/the-controversial-legacy-of-frank-kitson-in-northern-ireland/
” Kitson’s experiences in Kenya – described in his book Gangs and Counter-Gangs – would become the basis of the “false flag black ops” brought shortly after to the streets of Belfast in the shape of the Military Reaction Force The MRF gathered intelligence, but more controversially, instigated parallel tactics of intimidation through the assassination that were carried out on identified members of what Army command perceived as the insurgent support base. The mushrooming loyalist paramilitary groups also seem to have offered a readymade local model for similar acts of intimidation against the insurgent support, following tactics that Kitson had already developed in other theatres of conflict.
In addition, Kitson initiated a policy of strict army influenced control over the media representation of the conflict.
“In order to influence opinion effectively it is necessary to control the means of communication”
This was effected by what Roger Faligot described as a close censorship of reportage and the grooming of “Journalist soldiers” working closely with the Army to create a controlled narrative. This approach theoretically extended to influencing the work of the judiciary also.In Low Intensity Operations Kitson argues
“The law should be used as just another weapon in the government’s arsenal and in this case it becomes little more than a propaganda cover for the disposal of unwanted members of the public.”
Mark McGovern in his paper “Collusion, Counterinsurgency and Colonialism: The Imperial Roots of Contemporary State Violence”, explains what this [means]
In other words, and entirely in keeping with a ‘peculiarly British way’ of counterinsurgency, the key problem was to ensure the civil authorities generated a juridical order that allowed state agents to do ‘what was necessary’ to preserve its interests. The key question for the political system was to find ways to ensure the protection of state agents in conducting counterinsurgency operations by making, if required, what might otherwise be illegal, legal.
Kitson’s approach to the army’s management of the law and media reporting essentially made Northern Ireland a place very much apart from what were the recognised English norms of the period on such matters.”
@Alf Baird 9.59pm
Get back to us when you and the others have made the case to the UN and they’ve agreed, huh? In the meantime the rest of us will just get on with the real work.
Tell us Alf, how do you think it’ll go down with the UN disenfranchising New Scots like the author of this article?
@ Andy Ellis
“I doubt many Irish folk accept that the experiences of Scotland and Ireland are comparable,”
That depends….the failure of the potato harvests… Charles Trevelyan, he of the slaving family ensuring those affected by hunger in Scotland and Ireland had to work for it thereby condemning those unable to work to their fate.
@Lenny Hartley 9.52pm
Yes, although the back up data for the Edinburgh study appears not to be publicly available it found native Scots votes 52% Yes, whereas others voted 70 No which was enough to turn the overall result to No.
The polling referred to by Ellen Joelle in her piece however is more recent & shows that things may have changed, particularly post brexit & given the SG now plan to enfranchise many of those excluded last time like voters from EU who may now be more inclined to vote Yes.
Of course another tack is to try to to increase the Yes vote amongst native born Scots & increase turnout from the (admittedly already) high 2014 levels to Quebec levels which were several % points higher in the low 90% from memory.
The Dominions of Canada and Ireland had their own parliaments but the UK parliament “reserved” the power to prevent legislation that it did not wish to go through.
Similar treatment for Scotland and Ireland by similar methods.
Another example of the SNP being unable to govern with the required level of competence. The clearest path to independence is through adequate management to convince the undecided voters and increase the polls above 60%. As a previous yes voter, I’m now leaning towards the no side of undecided, based on the SNP management of the country.
Unless there is a change of leadership the issue will be dead for another generation. The talent doesn’t appear to be there, despite some concerns Kate Forbes appears to be someone who represents traditional Scottish values.
The Times article (27 March 2015) I thought was archived but I can’t find it. However , a Google search turns up…
“Majority of Scottish born voters said ‘yes’
Findings from Scottish Referendum Survey show Scotland stayed in Union because of views of those born in other parts of Britain and further afield”
Excellent article. Complex sophisticated insight….expressed so well. Impressive
Good article.
What a shower of..
As Baz Lurmahnn said politicians aren’t noble but will philander..
Whit a shambles!
However Imagine if this level of investigation was done on Westminster?
Enough to fill God knows how many websites!
Makes you wonder when we little people stop being blind and do something about it!
Nativism or whatever you care to call it is a distraction that plays into the hands of the unionists.
It gives credence to the idea that independence is just about grievance – most Scots have English relatives and contacts.
There is no way a franchise of only those born in Scotland can be collated until after Independence.
Stop dreaming about a fantasy and work towards a real end to the union and a future that works for the decent people of these islands.
Sturgeon didn’t want to be the Mugabi of land reform.
Someone find that quote?
Sturgeon the betrayer. Mike Russell. An evil old man. Rolfe Harris look alike.
Corrupt to the core in my opinion. Vile toad.
Andy Ellis said;
“Scotland isn’t being singled out: you and others are the ones advocating singling Scotland out by proposing a self determination franchise nobody else uses, and which risks jeopardising international recognition.”
Blethers; on constitutional matters other countries are far more selective about who gets to vote on them. This is not just a self-determination exercise, and it isn’t nativism, this is Scotland re-establishing her sovereign authority, a sovereignty that has been illicitly suppressed by the English establishment for centuries.
Your argument is irrelevant for Scotland given that its constitution, guaranteed by the Treaty, states that the people of Scotland are the sole owners of Scotland’s sovereignty, thus any formal plebiscite of their views on a constitutional matter like Scotland’s independence can and must engage that sovereignty, meaning their decision may not be legally overruled by any one else, even if outvoted by a non-sovereign majority. That is why the franchise for Scotland’s independence must be properly designed to ensure the sovereign Scots get their full say on their own country’s future, because they are Scotland’s true owners, not its recent incomers.
It is also a part of the UN’s Charter that the native population who are taking part in a self-determination exercise to potentially free themselves must be prioritised over non-native incomers to ensure their decision is not interfered with by outsiders.
If sovereignty means anything at all, and Westminster swears by its own all the time, then Scotland’s sovereignty is entitled to, and demands, full respect in our own damn country. We’ve had 300+ years of nothing but abusive shit from Westminster, and we’re taking no more from ANYONE!
wingers with an attention span greater than a goldfish will notice a “shift system” in play, and/or the recycling of the handles; there always has to be some tit constantly spewing the reheated yoon-shit.
and … the comeback kid …
with no added arguments whatsoever, reliant on a new gang of mugs who know no better
A guy who knew how to do it right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAwdZcozdLk
FFS Ellis – is this a medley of your “greatest misses” are you here to do the end of the pier show with slade and spandau ballet?
you want to talk about civic nationalism and that rigged-to-fuck franchise that put us in this shitty predicament?
you want to defend that ??
if indy is not mainly for the indigenous, native, aboriginal, Scots – then who is it for??
the middle class anglo incomers are doing alright anyway, see Edinburgh
anyone else who is in a protected group with special privileges because of alleged victimhood? they be fine …
any foreigner at all who can just turn up and carpet bag the place?
how much do we have to give away?
are we bad people for demanding a little for ourselves, alone? for a change.
shall we give our enemies a veto on our self determination?
Glasgow University had a proud history.
But now, how now can it be a centre of excellence when it appoints politicos with no doctoral qualifications or in fact any academic qualifications, or with no real interest in research and teaching save for security services work.
Trading on its name most of it’s student are foreign. Its a commercial business first and foremost and I say this with no slight to the foreign students who for the present come.
Maybe not quite the Ultima Brassiere Company set up by a wee barrow girl hairy, but it’s headed that way.
Confused @ 11.03
Thanks for that . I had noted Civic Andy had puttered into town again .
When I seen the three prongs of his plastic spoon ” Civic Nationalism ” ” Nativist ” ” Moonhowlers ” had been so quickly deployed I first thought … ” must be an election imminent ” ; then I thought …” Where’s wee Johnny Main ? ” .
The next thought was …” if only that ” Ignored ” function was working “
Where are the geniuses on here who are going to explain the process of collating a franchise built on birth in Scotland that avoids all the anomalies?
Looks like a bit of a dispute between the professional managerial elite to me.
Land reform where? In my own home area there are no locals left in the smaller settlements? And in the larger ones we are down to around a third at best. But let us reform the system so that the lower middle class can have a go at what the professional managerial caste consider to be under their control. By all means out, out and out again a rat like Russell, a fuckin stinking turncoat if ever there was one. But for what? Are we to believe that a person who is already a citizen of an independent country cares a jot for the rights of the Scottish nation, its men women and bairns?
If I am wrong I apologise in advance but I remain to be convinced living as a i do as a Scot in a world of gobshites in my own land.
You want your cut? Then go and speak to Scholz and Baerbock and ask them how they did it.
And here we have the return of the prodigal scum , Andy Pandy who the rev put into moderation and he went away in a huff because Stu didn’t appreciate his brilliance even although andy pandy was forever crawling up Stu’s arse, Andy, for the info of newcomers had his own website but he was lonely because naebody visited it maybe because he can bore for engerland,so he decided to swamp the best independence blog with his incessant pish and insults, oor Ruby had the measure of him , don’t worry peeps his tag team mates will arrive shortly to back him up and further swamp the comments section
You will find that andy pandy uses we and us an awful lot without producing any evidence to support their use, but if anyone else uses we or us andy DEMANDS evidential proof of numbers
Andy Ellis
**None of those examples excluded peoples from other countries. A number of them had MORE inclusive franchises than ours in 2014. Some of the former Soviet republics even enfranchised Soviet army personel from elsewhere in the USSR!**
Scotland is a country with her territory intact. Judging by what you say you seem to think we’d be up for negotiating territory. We wouldn’t be.
What other countries allow for their referendums is irrelevant. I noticed you said AFTER they became independent. So you aren’t describing the same situation.
A country decides it’s franchise. Scotland is a country. In a union that it can leave at any time. Even without a referendum at all if we wanted to. 56 MPs was all that was officially accepted before Mayhem & Sturgeon entered the scene.
KT Lorimer
**Where are the geniuses on here who are going to explain the process of collating a franchise built on birth in Scotland that avoids all the anomalies?**
The UK government manages it perfectly fine so it can’t be rocket science. If you don’t qualify on the electoral roll you’d simply not be issued a polling card.
Andy – we are a colony.
We can’t vote to leave. *check*
We can’t have full control over our own resources. *check*
Set*lers swamping the election pool & land grab *check*
Do you think because they let us vote in their pretendy General Elections, where Scots have nae danger of ever influencing their rigged result, that we’re not?
& EU citizens took part in the last ref. They helped a great deal by voting naw. Apparently they were spooked by project fear so chances are they will be again. I bet we’d find they’re away hame now too – back to their own country.
However I’m sure they wouldn’t give a rats ass sitting out of another country’s referendums. I know that if I was a visitor to another country, I certainly wouldn’t be greeting about it. I’d recognise its not my concern.
As for Alex & Tasmina – they better wise up & fast. You don’t invite yer nemesis, whose sole mission is to deny you leaving in the first place, to come in & outvote you.
That’s just stupidity & demonstrates they obviously don’t mind losing again. Scots Sovereignty & her constitution isn’t up for debate with outsiders or we may as well just give up now.
I hope someone writes a book.
How Scotland was betrayed. Would be a good title.
Vivian o blivion at 4pm,
You make a very valid point. Glasgow University seems to be the place for failed politicians to suddenly, with zero academic input become pretendy ‘professors’. Time and again we have seen folk from politics with zero academic credentials (and absolutely not worthy of the position of professor), getting such positions at Glasgow.
Something within Glasgow University stinks in this regard. Some of their actual REAL PROFESSORS are academically superb, and fully deserve their title, so I have no idea why they tolerate this chicanery for failed politicians, who have zero academic credibility. And make no mistake, these are not ‘honorary’ titles.
Sadly, however, a few other Scottish Universities seem to be going down that route. Former MP, and potential SNP candidate Stephen Gethins is reportedly (and I was genuinely surprised), a ‘pretendy’ ‘professor’ at St.Andrews University!!!
Perhaps folk need to start asking, just what was the theme of failed politician Stephen Gethins doctoral research?? (HINT: He has none).
It genuinely take an enormous degree of personal brass neckery, for folk such as Gethins to go around telling folk they are professors of ANYTHING. It is also an enormous insult to genuine academically talented, very hard working REAL professors.
All kinds of folk get what are termed honorary doctorates and degrees all the time, but none pretend that this actually means much more than a recognition of something within their lives elsewhere (a famous actor, or TV personality). It is well known and nobody minds. Really just a bit of fun overall. But this is different, these failures truly do call themselves ‘professor’.
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/international-relations/people/spg6
To strut around Scotland calling yourself an ACTUAL professor, with zero academic credibility, is just something else entirely. Utterly, utterly ridiculous.
Universities need to stop this nonsense, if they wish to retain any kind of academic credibility. At most these should be merely ‘honorary’ titles, but even then it is stretching things.
Journalists really need to start asking questions about this utter nonsense.
Is there like a civil servant dude that shows Humza what way is East.
Oh God!
I ended up sounding like a parrot who had been taught to swear. 🙂
I ain’t going there anymore. I don’t want any more PMT.
Andy Ellis is for sure getting the X.
His ‘red & green will never be seen’.
@Geri 5.34am
You’re entitled to your opinion that we’re a colony, but as noted above the majority of the movement probably disagrees with you. the majority of the population certainly does, and the international community and UN don’t accept that places like Scotland are colonies or non-self governing territories. Repeated contradiction won’t change the facts.
We can leave: all that’s required is for enough people to put a cross on a ballot paper. The right to self determination may be a jus cogens under international law, but that law isn’t going to drop independence in to our laps. The right isn’t unlimted or automatic.
I can see why Alf Baird and others desperately want to believe we are a colony, and persuade others to buy their snake oil, because being a colony would make things easier in some respects. The argument is spurious however: the effort expended on it would be better directed at just building a better case to convince undecided voters to choose independence in plebiscitary elections or a referendum.
As for EU citizens voting No in an (unlikely to be granted) #indyref2 given brexit, you’re delusional. I don’t know a single EU national who now wouldn’t welcome independence: that may be subjective, but only detailed polling or the actual vote would prove otherwise.
With regard to Alex and Tasmina, it simply shows that even Alba has rejected nativism. It therefore has zero political support, being limited to a small if voluble coterie of fringe figures, often sophomoric far lefties with a penchant for other fringe issues. They’re the last people capable of converting undecided voters, or of convincing most existing pro independence voters to support their fringe views.
The fact you regard New Scots as outsiders simply demonstrates the problem and the regressive nature of the views of nativists. You’ve never managed to tackle Rev Stu’s original demolition of the nativist case, and continue to be butt hurt that the movement as a whole reviles your blood and soil nationalism. thankfully of course we can all red box & ignore unreasoning contributions in here now. Hopefully the full functionality will soon be available and those marked for ignore will disappear from our TL’s altogether.
Russel is just another item of political ephemera who will leave a trail for good and more likely ill.
Yousaf’s «independence will make you rich» nonsense is another trail to nowhere.
Independence, if it means anything at all, signifies having the right to make your own mistakes and not be subject to suffer the consequences of those made by unaccountable others.
May not be «show us the money» pie in the sky rhetoric but one firmly rooted in the solid ground of reality.
A good place to locate the liberation dynamic.
@Geri 4.48pm
Scotland is a country with her territory intact. Judging by what you say you seem to think we’d be up for negotiating territory. We wouldn’t be.
It makes no difference. The international community doesn’t care about our colourful past. They’ll regard self determination for Scotland according to accepted norms. The presumption in international law is for territorial integrity: that would apply to Scotland just as it applies to other newly independent countries: it’s why nobody accepts that the Crimea can simply be annexed. We could of course make a case for asking for Berwick on Tweed back: the locals might even support it!
What other countries allow for their referendums is irrelevant. I noticed you said AFTER they became independent. So you aren’t describing the same situation.
Another case of nativist know-nothingism I’m afraid. Go and do the actual work. Check out the (extensive) sources about how all the newly independent states in Europe gained their independence. They all used inclusive, residence based franchises for the referendums which LED to their independence. A few (like Montenegtro) imposed limited time periods for residence before the vote, but none of them were long, usually 24 months. Not a single one restricted the franchise to native born people, nor would the international community have been likely to accept such a franchise.
A country decides it’s franchise. Scotland is a country. In a union that it can leave at any time. Even without a referendum at all if we wanted to. 56 MPs was all that was officially accepted before Mayhem & Sturgeon entered the scene.
The country has, and only the lunatic fringe want to change it. The only thing stopping Scots leaving the Union is their lack of collective political balls. A referendum isn’t the only route: plebiscitary elections are just as valid & probably preferable in current circumstances. Nobody is stopping the movement advocating that and standing on that basis: all it needs to do is convince the Scots people it’s the right course & get their votes. Go do!
A majority of Westminster MPs is only a mandate for independence if it represents a clear majority of Scottish votes and is in response to a clear platform that a majority will be taken as an automatic declaration of independence. the international community will simply ignore it otherwise.
Anyhoo…off to the red box of ignoredom with you. Your limited entertainment value has worn off by now.
Robert Louis @ 07:41
The source of Stephen Gethins’ Professorship is the same as Dugdale’s, probably Russell’s and most definitely Andrew Fulton’s. These are very real and substantial salary payments made by the British, SIS and routed through academic institutions. A money laundering operation for services rendered.
That Thames House is sufficiently content with Dugdale’s efforts to subvert Scottish politics through the medium of Poststructuralism, speaks of the humongous nature of their budget (£4b) rather than actual delivered performance.
Prior to infiltrating the SNP as a SPAD for Alex Salmond (and who conducted the vetting for that?), Gethins was employed by NGO LINKS doing shady, political influencing work in the former Soviet republic of Georgia.
Chair of the John Smith Centre (at the University of Glasgow), Catherine Smith shares this aspect of Gethins’ employment history. Smith described NGO LINKS in her site biography as “London based”. NGO LINKS was based out of the University of Arizona. Why the clumsy attempt at misdirection? NGO LINKS was funded by the US Government, National Science Foundation. Why would an organisation ostensibly focused on furthering scientific research within the territorial boundaries of the US be funding political influencing operations in the former Soviet republic of Georgia? Is the National Endowment for Democracy losing its utility as a front for the CIA / State Department?
The rapidity with which Gethins was hired by the School of International Relations at the University of St Andrews on losing his seat in the crash GE of 2019 was positively indecent.
Andrew Thin had been the SLC Chair since 2017, getting formally reappointed by the Scottish government every couple of years since taking on the role. He recently announced his departure from this position just 16 days after his most recent re-appointment, discreetly declining to offer any explanation of how that decision came about.
discreetly declining to offer any explanation of how that decision came about.
Saying nothing isn’t very discreet. It speaks volumes.
I wonder what he actually said?
I’m saying nowt?
Mike Russell Chair of the SLC! When that SNP hot air merchant came to the Borders a few years ago to spell out the SNP EU action plan the local SNP activists and others expectantly turned up to hear the golden boy share the action plans for staying in Europe.
Mike took the mic and Waffle! Waffle! Waffle! The non action plan damp squib impacted on everyone like a bag of soggy nappies. Most everyone left the hall, tripping over their long faces. A big hint of what was not to come with Sturgeon’s SNP. I wish I had taken tbe hint then and quit – but there again there was as yet no Alba to offer hope. (Anyway, I now support EFTA).
@Alf Baird says:6 January, 2024 at 7:04 pm
Knock out post of the thread so far from Professor Baird:
People do not move to another country in order to liberate its people; they generally move for their own socio-economic advantage
No Shit Sherlock! That’s exactly what I have been pointing out for ages. These New Scots are here to coin it in.
and the data confirms that most ‘new Scots’ continue to actively oppose and block our liberation
Hmmm. So if true (and who is really refuting it), these “New Scots” can clearly see the bleedin obvious – Indy will make us, and them, poorer, so they want no part of it.
And then again, the stoutest Indy supporters never tire of boring us with all the disadvantages of Brexit. So these New Scots, hearing about that, will be determined not to make the same mistake – leaving a bigger empire to make a futile attempt at self governance – for a second time.
The way I see it, the biggest obstacle to Indy is not just the geriatric, fossilised politicians bowing and scraping to their fraudulent, pretendy and wholly inappropriate FM Yousaf.
It’s also the tribalist, reality-denying eejits that put these politicians in place, blindly voted for them for decades, and even now, insist that the same tired and failed policies of 15 years ago still have to be maintained forever into the future.
Blind folded reasoning:
Scots did not vote to join the treaty of union.
Why the necessity for a vote to leave the treaty of union?
Just as a wee reminder to those who cannot understand, because they use the blind fold method to maintain their ignorance,
It States on the UK PARLIAMENT SITE.
They decided not to give the vote to the Scots in 1706/07 to join the Union, as the Scots would probably vote NO.
The logic is that it was England whom defined Scots as a Separate nation of People. Even from the Scottish parliament in that statement.
ANDY ELLIS
As i come from a region of the world rich in examples of colonialism, material and psychological, i would not put too much faith in official definitions, definitions arrived at post factum.
All situations have unique historic and experiential elements. The Tunisian case is not like that of Lebanon nor Lebanon like that of my ethnic community struggling to survive in the plains of Nineveh and south east «Türkiye».
Alf Baird and co have an existential point to make that is all that can be done at this stage.
Post independence would see a flowering of such analysis no doubt.
The indigenious Scots do not need any particular vote to leave the union,….. they were never given a vote invitation to join,
And another thing.
I am sick to the back teeth of reading posters greetin about the loss of their “EU citizenship”, whatever the feck that is.
The reality remains that there is no country in the EU that won’t accept any Scot, who is prepared to do the necessary paperwork, learn the language, bring a useful and productive skill and a positive work ethic with her. None of that has changed.
To the agnostic lurker, nothing screams ambivalence about Indy louder than the so-called pro-Indy zealot who can’t wait to get her EU citizenship back so that she can feck off from iScotland to the Costas just as soon as she can get her flat on AirBnB.
If I had my way, I would remove all passports from Scottish citizens on Day 1 of Indy. To be returned in 20 years time. Force all of us to stay and make a go of the New iScotland. Nae fecking off if the country goes pear.
That would concentrate a few minds.
Sooner or later The people of Scotland will recognise the “scam rhetoric” of unionist regarding percentage votes required from Scots or referendum votes , or when they tell Scots they need a permission vote to get out and leave the Union.
And its simple.
If Scots did not vote to join.
The nation of Scots do not need a vote to leave,
That’s TURABDIN got the X now & so has Geri.
Just before I click the ‘Ignore X’ can I just point out that both you and Andy Ellis are way off topic.
There’s more than enough to discuss in the above article no need to regurgitate the SSDD that has already been done to death on this forum.
My X goes to everyone who responds to those I am ignoring.
I have one rule for everyone even if you they made many interesting posts in the past.
Bye Turabin.
@Andy Ellis says:7 January, 2024 at 9:53 am
A referendum isn’t the only route: plebiscitary elections are just as valid & probably preferable in current circumstances. Nobody is stopping the movement advocating that and standing on that basis: all it needs to do is convince the Scots people it’s the right course & get their votes. Go do!
Of course! And if you don’t mind me pointing out, a bleedin, in-your-face, obvious solution to the current political logjam.
My usual 30-seconds of research suggests that the fee for registering as a candidate at a UK GE remains £500. 59 people need to find £500 plus a bit more if they wish to loosely aggregate as the Plebiscite Party and register thus. WM GE coming up this year, so an ideal time to get started.
All over Europe, and indeed the world, new parties are coming from nowhere in very little time, in response to urgent democratic needs, and in frustration at the failures of the establishments. Harnessing social media to get the message out. Short circuiting the MSM, the establishment, etc.
Absolutely no need for Scotland to be left behind. IMO, if Scotland is left behind, it will speak more realistically about the true desire for Indy than years of greeting posts on here, WGD, etc etc.
Robert Louis @ 7:41 am
“Universities need to stop this nonsense, if they wish to retain any kind of academic credibility.”
These and other institutions cannot be adjusted within a colonial society. If we are to understand what colonialism really means, we also need to understand that in a colonial society all institutions are colonial in nature and in terms of their ‘values’, i.e. in what they regard as ‘significant’.
In other words, colonial institutions do not exist for the benefit of the native people, far less for their aspirations to develop their nation and its people. Colonial institutions protect the interest of the colonizer and haud doun the people:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/01/the-determinants-of-independence-institutions/
No need to use BOLD to quote someone you can just use blockquote.
Bold is deafening. It’s worse than the SHOUTING IN UPPERCASE.
Blockquote is stylish and it helps distinguish who is say what to whom.
I will re-upload by basic html tutorial.
Now watch Scottish land policy diminish to the whim of the Buccleuch estates and of course accommodate the libertarian Freeport project the SNP have inflicted upon us.
John Main says:
Brext means no country in the EU WILL accept any Scot, who is not prepared to do the necessary paperwork, learn the language, bring a useful and productive skill and a positive work ethic with them.
Whereas, All EU Citizens enjoy the equal right to Free movement of their goods. Free movement of their capital. Freedom to work, establish and provide services. And Free movement of their family people.
John Main you talk pish….ALL OF THAT has changed since BREXIT.
And then you say, ´If I had my way, I would remove all passports from Scottish citizens on Day 1 of Indy. To be returned in 20 years time. Force all of us to stay and make a go of the New iScotland. Nae fecking off if the country goes pear?.
Bravo pal, cos THAT is exactly the Legislation being enacted in UKRAINE…
People physically dragged from their cars while on family trips with their children and then served with conscription papers…
Aye, Nae fecking off if the country goes pear under a US NATO Pantomime…
On a broader field, a dewy eyed view of the EU, the USA, NATO and the UN should give good cause to ponder the calibre of the political goods on offer.
Real independence, the notion that dare not yet voice its opinion.
Robert Louis at 7.41am
You raise absolutely valid points about the integrity of universities like Glasgow when they parachute politicians into positions as professors.
Can you imagine a university let us say full of Nazi Party inserted professors and teaching staff. |Doesn’t sound too clever but this sets the picture of what this issue is about.
But turning this around a bit there is today a press piece about a rather expensive ferry that has turned out in its very short life to be an very expensive and unreliable ferry.
No it’s not the Glen Sannox or the Glen Rossa. We all know about these two boats. Rather this is about a lesser known vessel called the MV Hallaig that provides the lifeline service between Skye and the island of Raasay.
Procured against academic advice that cautioned that the boat would be expensive and potentially with problems, the boat was nevertheless built against that caution and launched in a fanfare of publicity by none other than Nicola Sturgeon.
State of the art, world leading was her proud boast. However as foretold by the academics it was not to be and with their clear warnings coming to pass.
And so after a very short life the boat, the MV Hallaig, a hybrid diesel electric had a fire and broke down in September 2023 causing folks to have to be rescued and the essential lifeline island service disrupted.
And now with the state of the art boat allegedly fixed and back in service it turns out that it’s not fixed. Rather due to very serious, if not fatal technical issues, and the small matter of £1.5 million pounds to replace the ships batteries, which it seems cannot be replaced, or at least not until some time in the distant future with extensive ship modifications, the much vaunted ship has been converted to run on diesel – the expensive electric planet saving aspect having been quietly ditched!!
And the academic who advised against the diesel electric hybrid being the way to go? Well, and this is the point, the Government complained to his university about his advice.
And that I am afraid, is a working example of how politicians like Sturgeon and her acolytes try to muzzle and stifle our universities.
And as is the way, the islanders and the public purse pick up the huge additional expense – just like the Glen Sannox and the Glen Rossa.
Yes, folks don’t really understand how deep and far reaching the tentacles of the state actually are.
@TURABDIN says:7 January, 2024 at 10:58 am
In realpolitik, a country either has an empire, or is embedded in somebody else’s empire.
I would like to see an Independent Scotland, but I won’t deny the reality that we will function as a part of somebody else’s hegemony. Our geographical position makes us too strategically important to be left alone.
Barring miracles, the EU looks to have shot its bolt. The US remains the best bet for the foreseeable future. Their recent economic statistics are looking excellent, as they onshore industry and double down on energy security. Besides, they continue to make the best TV and movies, as well as driving most of our truly popular culture.
But the litmus test remains to be the direction in which the millions of impoverished are traipsing. And that’s overwhelmingly towards the US and those in its sphere of influence. An awkward chiel of a fact that winna ding.
The day the BRICS are fighting off the eager migrants and asylum seekers with a shitty stick will be the day my opinion changes.
Vivian @9.55am.
Excellent comment Vivian, junk tanks funded by dark money are effectively creating policies for governments, most have benign names often with the word democracy in them, but in actuality they are far right neoliberal organisations.
The Atlas Network has a whopping 500 (and growing) junk tanks aimed at influencing governments and important bodies around the globe, many are funded by big oil and big tobacco, the Ford Foundation and the Koch Brothers.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Atlas_Network
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2024/01/06/junk-tanks/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Although it may annoy the «stay on topickers» the experience of my ethnic community with outside meddlers, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans, British etc has parallels with the centuries of the Britishing of Scotland. In both cases the job could not have been done without significant inside help.
Tom Nairn called that «internal colonialism» a far tougher nut to crack than the obvious external form. Internal colonialism, betartaned, proudly Scottish and even overtly «nationalist» is where the nut is at the most durable.
Have a good day!
It would appear this grifting trougher is getting a little bit nervous as we get closer to a GE.
“Tommy Sheppard: Scottish independence is off table if SNP lose vote”
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
@Xarecen 11pm
Just more regressive Scottish exceptionalism I’m afraid. The international community is agnostic about all the minutiae of hundreds of years of Scottish history. they and we know what we have to do to become independent. There are no silver bullets or short cuts, however earnestly those obsessed with the Treaties of Union, Salvo, Conventions and Sovereign Scots status wish it were otherwise. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
This is a particularly egregious piece of regressive nativism on your part:
…thus any formal plebiscite of their views on a constitutional matter like Scotland’s independence can and must engage that sovereignty, meaning their decision may not be legally overruled by any one else, even if outvoted by a non-sovereign majority.
So you plan is to disenfranchise non-native Scots and declare independence on the basis of less than 50% of the Scottish people voting for it? Good luck with that! You and a minority of cranks don’t get to randomly separate the goats from the sheep in support of your vision of ethnic purity, because you don’t represent the independence movement, any political party which supports independence, or any political figure of any note who support independence. Get back to us when any of that changes.
This is a bit of a ramble to save time just go to the end of the post where it says ‘ Pay attention!
I just found the Pay attention! image at the last minute.
http://tinyurl.com/ycxh5yhe
I have to use a picture to show what html tags look like because if I type them in a post they will just convert to html & disappear.
See above image.
Each html tag contains an opening & closing tag. They are both more or less the same except the closing tag has a forward slash / to indicate that is the end of whatever it is you want to make bold, italic etc.
In between the two tags you type whatever it is you want to make bold.
It would have been better if the picture showed this. It’s pretty difficult to find images of these html tags in full.
Those who already know how to do bold will already know this.
For those you who dont you do opening tag the word, text you want in bold italic etc then the closing tag that’s the one with the forward slash /.
Ignore the bit about ‘underline’ that doesn’t work on Wings.
The only tags that work are
bold, italic, strike through, & the brilliant blockquote.
bold & italic does what it says
strike though is this
strikethroughblockquote
Quite a few poster use the blockquote. I like it.
If you look at the top tag in the image. The bold tag in red
http://tinyurl.com/ycxh5yhe
where it has a b you would just replace that with
blockquote.
If you have any problems with that Red can help you out.
Hope this works without a preview I can’t tell it’s always easy to miss a / and get it all wrong.
Fingers crossed.
Oh look I found something.
http://tinyurl.com/59n58yr3
This is a better example
Pay attention!
You can see here how it works.
You would just replace the ‘Pay attention!’ with whatever you want in bold.
Replace the b with an i for italic s for strikethrough and blockquote for indented quotes edged with a grey line. Very stylish.
@TURBADIN 10.13am
Ottomanboi, is that you?! I actually agree that each case has to be seen and judged on its own merits or lack thereof. Thus, although the cases of Catalonia, Scotland and Quebec seeking independence from the larger “metropolitan” power are often seen as analogous, they all have some similarities and some differences. Similarly, they are regarded both “officially” by the international community/organisations and academically as different categories from more traditional cases of decolonisation.
As others have noted in the past, international law may be imperfect and incomplete, and – particularly given recent events – the rules based system of world order may need to be looked and even replaced, but the $64,000 question is with what?
I’m all for trying something different, but as the old Irish directions have it: “If I was going there, I wouldn’t be starting from here!”
The nativists existential point is spurious. The rest of us can see it even if they can’t.
Our beloved FM and Sturgeon puppet Humza Yousaf speaks the truth here, but not because he’s determined to achieve independence, no from now on in until the GE Yousaf and his party which is teeming with grifting careerists will laud the benefits of independence to obtain YOUR vote but do nothing to further the indy cause
The sad thing is that we could be a more progressive and richer nation with independence.
There are absolutely NO BENEFITS to Scots or Scotland being in the union, none whatsoever, that’s why Britnats use fear, lies deceit and intimidation to keep Scotland, a country tied to England and treated as a colony.
Down with the union.
vote Alba, Join Alba
“SCOTS could enjoy the higher living standards of countries such as Denmark, Finland and Ireland under independence with the average household more than £10,000 better off, the First Minister is expected to say.
Humza Yousaf will highlight the “prize of independence” when he speaks at Glasgow University tomorrow in what is being billed as the first of a series of major economic speeches.
He is expected to say that the Brexit-based UK economy has failed people in Scotland and that UK-based political parties are offering no alternatives to a “failed Westminster economic model”, while outlining how independence would raise productivity and living standards.
He will say that although it will not happen overnight, independence will mean Scotland can begin to start catching up on more prosperous countries such as Denmark, Ireland and Finland.”
JOHN MAIN
I know well what you mean. The USA and more particularly its soft power through entertainment and its phoenix like cultural myths may sway even the most «grounded».
America is the wide open spaces of aspiration, open spaces rich in a tomorrow that is unlikely to come. But when you have nothing that is a something.
I do not have a problem with hope as long as it is not of the forlorn variety.
My family history knows the latter fairly well…..promises, promises etc.
I should not be a skeptic at my age, i am told….but it «secures» the mind.
We are independent if the Scots did not vote to join the union as UK parliament state on their site.
The constant ruse / trick ls to make Scots believe they need to vote in a election of some sort to leave,
You too TURABDIN. Bonne Dimanche!
Trying to crack the ‘internal colonialism’ nut is what us «stay on topickers» as you call us are trying to do.
I thought that would have been obvious.
Neither you nor Tom Nairn are giving us any clues on how to do that.
It gets a bit tedious when all we hear is ‘Scotland is a colony’ ‘Scotland is corrupt’ we need to ‘get the SNP’ out but nobody comes up with any answers to how we change things.
You get my ignore X if you reply to anyone on my ignore list. I think that’s fair enough don’t you?
Republic @11.43
Tommy Shepherd said: “This year’s vote is about whether the journey continues, whether we can create circumstances to move towards our independence”.
Weasel words.
“The Journey” is the trip to no-where on the SNP Gravy Train.
The rest is meaningless waffle which indicates a distinct lack of ideas and intention. Independence is the last thing the SNP want.
I remember Russell in Clydesdale as a candidate in the 1980s and he was a good quality chap.
The recurring problem I have us where was he when.
A conspiracy was hatched.
When complaint process were changed.
When an innocent man was arrested and charged and information leaked to the press.
When an innocent man proved his innocence.
When a number of guilty women were protected from prosecution.
When one daft policy was created only to be followed by a dafter one.
He was either part if the problem or he turned a blind eye to it.
I have to ask why??? Why would one of the good guys suddenly become a front man for a corrupted party.
Better go! I feel my ‘parrot who learned to swear’ coming to the fore.
Remember Scott he was accused of stalking Andy Ellis’ wee girl.
I liked Scott. I hope you comes back.
He had rubbish taste in food but like me he had a ‘parrot who learned to swear’ on his shoulder.
Andy Ellis @ 11:59 am
“The nativists existential point is spurious.”
Ethnic Scots voted 52% Yes, 48% No
Ethnic English voted 70% No.
I.e. the large difference is due to an ethnic (i.e. cultural, linguistic, national identity etc) divide.
The Scots Yes vote would have been even greater without the ‘colonial mindset’ effect.
A colonized people remain subject to institutionalised racism and hence ethnic oppression; which explains why the existence of ‘an independence movement depends on the solidarity of the oppressed ethnic group’ (Hechter).
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/15/determinants-of-independence-ethnicity/
@TURABDIN
“America is the wide open spaces of aspiration”
A deception, though believed, as you say.
This link about 1.37 tells you more about this religion,
http://www.progressivepulse.org/economics/steve-keen-and-michael-hudson
Well done Confused and Ignored! You co -wrote the funniest and most biting piece of satire I’ve read in a long time. Positively Swiftian. If Ricky Gervais delivered this it would be on every viral feed.
Confused
Ignored says:
6 January, 2024 at 7:02 pm
XL Bullies are trans labradors you bigots
and new labradors are labradors
there are only dogs, and breeds do not exist
civic dogitalism is the only way
make the case for NOT-BITING to the Soft Noes of the trans labrador community
we need a DRR so XL bullies are legally labradors by identification and can enter the childrens petting zoo and be taken round the old folks homes
YCBS! FFS! FFFS!
If you don’t know what YCBS means think John McInroe
Everyone knows FFS don’t they?
FFFFS?
The first three F’s are the same as the middle F in FFS
only the first F ends in ‘ity’ and the 2nd & 3rd in ‘ing’.
Here’s a clue. It’s embroidery! Who can be offended by embroidery? It’s not like ‘the parrot’ who learned to swear.
http://tinyurl.com/4mr96s4x
I’ll leave you to guess what the last F stands for.
S for poo. You would have probably guessed that.
You’ll know in future what I mean when I post
YCBS! FFS! FFFFS!
I have another which you might now be able to guess.
YCBS! FFS! FFFSUTMS!
and a few more.
Just trying to keep it short & snappy!
Ruby @ 12:21 pm
“It gets a bit tedious when all we hear is ‘Scotland is a colony’ ‘Scotland is corrupt’ we need to ‘get the SNP’ out but nobody comes up with any answers to how we change things.”
An essential start is for a colonized people to first ‘understand their oppression’ before they can hope to find ‘the only remedy’ (Fanon):
https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf
Alf Baird,
The demographics of who votes in Scotland at the moment and who does not vote is neither here or there and neither is the debate for old or ancient history,
For the Uk parliament has bought this predicament right up to date on their parliament site when they state the Scots were not allowed a vote to join the union in 1707 as they would probably have voted No.
So in 2023/24 the UK parliament state the Scots from the beginning were not in the treaty of union,
I remember Mike Russell well in his role as ‘Education Secretary’. His classist contempt for the FE sector and fear of its potential for ‘raising up’ those from the schemes, was palpable.
I remember him as a ha’penny snob; and meeting him as one of the turning points in coming to realise that – as a dyed in the wool ‘small n’ nationalist’ and lifelong SNP voter – the SNP were absolutely taking the piss out of me and those like me.
The writing had of course been on the wall for many colleges since at least the turn of the century… the more principled Principals and their SMTs had spent decades firefighting; at least one of my acquaintance becoming quite ‘broken’ with it all.
They replaced him (when he retired, old beyond his years) with a tawdry ‘Swiss Tony’ character; a sleazy second-hand car dealer (literally!) who would oversee and trough his way towards the ‘merger’ (read destruction) of at least three much-needed and greatly respected colleges. -‘Tony’ trashed promises made (by the old Principal) to the community and denuded the (largely trades-oriented) college he ran to the point of uselessness.
He wasn’t unique; such things went on all over Scotland – latterly with SNP hands on the tiller. Party of social justice my arse!
– The revenant remains of the three colleges I’m particularly thinking of that were merged, (a pattern that was repeated across the country) are a pale shadow of an even paler shadow. Where before tradespeople and practising industry professionals had staffed the chalk faces; ‘those who can’ were harassed (often bullied and abused – sometimes to the point of mental and physical breakdown at least one I knew to the point where it was the death of them) out of their jobs, to be replaced by the ‘nominally qualified’ holders of dumbed-down ‘degrees’.
– The ‘those who can’t’ types identified by Shaw.
Where a legitimate Tradesperson or Professional will baulk angrily at the concept of a vocational teacher being ‘one page ahead of the students’; this became the desired state of affairs from middle and upper management…
Actually passing on real professional skills gained through decades of industry experience became a sort of ‘crime’… a crime against box-ticking mentalities, fiddling statistics and potentially exposing the cold hard fact that very often the people being brought to the chalk faces just didn’t know the basics.
Having examined the current state of play; I’d say that’s very-much the case today; they seem to fear legitimate knowledge and experience.
On Russell… many of us (foolishly) expected the Salmond Government to deliver social justice; particularly those of us working in FE. We hoped for the war against the once-great community asset that was FE to be ended. Instead it was the wrecking ball that swung ‘further and higher’. – Mike Russell being a particularly enthusiastic lever-puller when set behind the controls of the excavator which dug the grave for FE in Scotland.
And they wonder why it’s now so hard to find a properly-trained (and properly qualified) Spark, or Brickie, or Plumber; or even Television Producer!
– Apparently (according to Wikipedia) “Russell previously worked as a television producer and director” – did he? Aye? And a writer tae…
“Pull over and stop the car (if you dare) and walk into the closes smelling of urine and rubbish, cluttered with dirt and debris. It is not uncommon to have to step over a comatose body, with or without a needle by its side.”
– From his 1998 “travel book” ‘In Waiting: Travels in the Shadow of Edwin Muir’. Rancid, classist, and largely inaccurate trash!
This – his background as an alleged writer, ‘Television Producer’ (did he maybe work in a factory that made tellies at one time?) – brings me to the “broadcasting platforms” …The ‘Scotland’s Voices Show’ can still be found on YouTube and apparently numerous other so-shall meeja platforms… Twat-Tok, Farcebook, InstaBam etc.
Whit a hoot! – Hardly broadcasting, is it? Poorly shot, badly edited, badly lit green-screen. I had to laugh at one of the comments praising it for its ‘high production value’- or production quality as people outside the trade would call it…
Let’s go back 23-24 years; had NC (that’s straight out of school wi’ nae Highers) students of mine still been turning in work of that standard at the end of a year – I’d have been carefully reviewing and considering remedial strategies for moving them on to the HN level… and wondering where I went wrong!
In other words; this is kid’s stuff! – Complete with the usual ring-lit ‘webcam licking’ contributions in a box and graphics by Crayola! – Amateur (hauf!) hour!
I don’t doubt somebody’s well-connected ‘pal’ had their pockets well-lined for making this… but ‘broadcasting’? No; it’s just a bit of camcorder-club/webcam-licking (think windae licking) attention-seeking of no particular note or (as the stats surrounding it indicate) impact.
Now… if only former (alleged) Television Producer Mike Russell hadn’t been instrumental in trashing Scotland’s once justifiably-proud and extensive grass-roots Creative Industries education facilities!
Should he no be retired by now though? – Planting tatties in the extensive grounds of his fancy 18th-century cottage on the Cowal Peninsula – far far away from aw us smelly scheemies and other working-class trash wi’ our stinkin’ closes and needles in oor airms?
I guess there’s still a trough for him to snuffle at!
“You get my ignore X if you reply to anyone on my ignore list. I think that’s fair enough don’t you?”
…I think it disnae matter a jot. The only person who can see who you’re ‘ignoring’ is yourself. And the ignore button seems to do precisely nothing – except highlight the person you’re ignoring!
Personally – I was hoping it would work to hide and eliminate the demented shite (which generally comes from a small number of individuals) that generally makes the BTL section of this blog unnavigable… and maybe allow the wheat to be sorted from the proverbial chaff.
– But it seem to do precisely bugger-all of any use.
Quote from the Herald…
” Tommy Sheppard said the vote, expected in the second half of the year, would be “about whether the journey continues” towards “national autonomy”.
More brass around the neck than a full team of brewery Clydesdales. These gravy train tossers are more and more insufferable.
“When” the SNP vote plunges, it won’t have any bearing on Independence, but it will be a shocking indictment of SNP tr(eachery) and the delinquent, anti-Science, Woke horseshit agenda they’ve been peddling on the the back of Independence momentum and popularity.
Away back to your bitter wee club Sheppard.
No, Not your “comedy” club, I meant the Labour Party.
RUBY
Start a blog of your own maybe and argue with yourself, X yourself in your own unique universe?
Being X’d i trust you will ignore this comment.
…..et bonne dimanche, ce qui en reste au moins, à vous aussi.
@John Main 10.39 am
Well indeed. I’m at something of a loss to explain the apparent stasis in Scottish voting intentions. Even after everything that has happened with the SNP. Perhaps a good skelping at #GE2024 will open the floodgates? I expect the scales will fall from the eyes of more lumpen SNP loyalists after their imminent drubbing?
That being said, it’s not as if new parties have a great record of establishing themselves in the UK. I keep hoping that the Scottish electorate will do to the SNP what Irish electors did to the IPP in 1918, but it’s said more in hope than expectation.
I see some of the usual suspects are already bleating that Alba isn’t doing what they want it to, and insisting there’s a great appetite for their particular brand of nativist snake oil.
I’m waiting with bated breath for the launch of the new Poplar Salvo fur the Liberation o’ the Commun Weal to lead us to the sunny uplands……
ANDY ELLIS
Your starting point is all. Knowing where route devolves from that.
Rather like over reliance on satnav at the expense of studying the roadmap, and double checking the provenance and accuracy of the same.
Thanks Ellen: Great piece of writing on the dreadful career of the odious Russell. Many questions to be asked but the barefaced shame of this toffee nosed fraud is breathtaking. Showing no interest or aptitude for something doesn’t stop you being handed an SNP sinecure it seems. In today’s Scotsman trougher Tam Sheperd the comedy impressario who became a political joke is in full keep ma joab mode. A vote against the SNP will kill of independence, says the well-lunched liar. Aye right! A vote for the SNP and its collection of career grifters, globalist neo con goons and intersectional space cadets is what will really bury independence for good. Vote Alba.
@Alf Baird 12.38 pm
The answer to the figures you quote, as has been pointed out numerous times, is both to persuade many more native born Scots to grow a pair and to increase turnout from 84.5% to the low 90’s% as it was in both Quebec referendums.
As Craig’s article linked to in Ellen Joelle Dalzell’s OP pointed out, it’s quite possible that in future New Scots – particularly non UK ones – could vote decisively Yes, perhaps even in large enough numbers to turn a No vote in to a Yes vote.
I noticed you never answered the question of whether you’d accept independence delivered by the votes of non-natives Alf: I wonder why that might be?
If as you say:
the Scots Yes vote would have been even greater without the ‘colonial mindset’ effect and our colonized people remain subject to institutionalised racism and hence ethnic oppression; which explains why the existence of ‘an independence movement depends on the solidarity of the oppressed ethnic group
then you and the fringe groups in the movement who agree with your regressive worldview don’t seen to be doing a very good job of convincing the poor benighted colonised subjects to rise up and throw off their chains and ceasing to lick the hands that feed them. No new party, no polling evidence, no La diada style protests, no politicians of any note agreeing with the “Scotland as colony” schtick. Nada.
Why it’s almost as if the movement thinks it’s a load of old codswallop Alf.
@Andy Ellis 2:31
The list of countries where political parties that essentially did not exist in 2020, but are already in coalition government or on the cusp of outright rule, is a long and growing one.
In each case, these new parties have come about because of strong desires for change in their host populations: sometimes about the cost of living, or sometimes agriculture, or often immigration.
If the same strong desire for change really does exist in Scotland, then its most obvious manifestation would be a meteoric rise in support for a new(ish) party pledging to address that desire.
We Sovereign Scots just cannot be that different to other voters around Europe and the rest of the world.
Alf Baird.
Excellent retorts to the usual suspects, these mutts need to have a go at you, because your comments on colonialism with Scotland in mind make perfect sense.
Keep the good work up Alf.
@Turabdin 10.58am
As John Main noted above, when the BRICs countries are fighting off economic migrants and people fleeing political oppression, the prospectus of those calling for some form of as yet unspecified New World Order, looks somewhat threadbare.
The current rules based international community, liberal democracy, capitalism and free markets all have their issues of course, but to paraphrase Churchill they are the worst possible systems…..apart from all the others that have been tried from time to time.
I wonder what “real independence” means for you? Given recent global events and the prospects of another Trump presidency, I could certainly be persuaded of the need for something different: the question is what?
I have a different opinion to you re the ‘ignore X’. I think it’s very good.
I see the ‘red & green warning’ and I have enough self-restraint not to go there.
This might have come about due to my two terms of PMT.
PMT = pre-moderation time.
The other good thing about the ‘ignore X’ is it prevents people clyping continually to Stu because they don’t like what you post.
Stu can just advise them to press the ‘ignore X’
We are all adults probably all have cars/bikes or scooters which require us to obey the rules of the road. OK the green light says go and here on Wings the green X says STOP!
That is probably Stu trying to keep us all alert.
If there is a complaint about the ‘X ignore’ it’s just that the X should be RED for STOP or even a no entry sign.
But Matt surely you can restrain yourself from reading the ‘demented shit’.
Choosing what you read BTL on Wings is similar to the selection you make when choosing a book.
You’ve experienced of a certain author and thought the book was rubbish. In my case it would be a book about vampires, shape shifters, LGBTQ+, fantasy & even Reverse Harem & Regency romance.
You spot an author aka poster who posts ‘demented shit’ you are not likely to read that author again. The ‘ignore X’ helps to remind you that his/her genre is ‘demented shit’ so you don’t pick up that book.
You wouldn’t expect a bookshop to cover up all the bookshelves containing authors you don’t like they would expect you as an adult to be able to pick the book you think is worth reading.
PS. It’s only me who needs to see the ‘red & green’ warnings.
I know this ‘self-restraint’ malarky isn’t easy but that’s life! 🙂
O/t and @Stoker
With regard to your post in the previous thread, during the late 90’s and early to mid 00’s there were a number of sectarian murders carried out by supporters of both sides of the O/F but fans of the old Rangers were ahead scorewise. In response to this Strathclyde Police were including fans of the old Rangers who had been murdered by other fans of the same team as sectarian murders to skew the numbers. When this was commented on all of the evidence, records etc, on these matters held by Strathclyde Police was destroyed. Strathclyde Police commented that it had been carried out by a lone wolf and that it was unlikely that it would ever be discovered who was behind it.
I have two old computers on which I used to bookmark stuff like that, I should fire them up to try to retrieve just the bookmarks without going online with Windows XP etc.
Shortly before the team went belly up I was doing a college course and one of my classmates was a member of Rangers in house media organisation. They boasted that all of the software they were using for their work was ripped, they had not paid for any of it. With further reference to the media, when the Herald installed an editor taken from the Daily Rangers he took a number of the sports scribblers with him, apparently.
@John Main 3.05pm
I remain unconvinced. British and Scottish voters have in modern times proven remarkably immune to the siren calls of mould braking parties. The SDP then Lib Dems never really fractured the two party system in the way many hoped/expected. The Referendum Party/UKIP & now Reform impacted the Tories certainly and served as the catalyst for the leave vote, but it hasn’t led to a re-arrangement of the system.
Even in Scotland, the SNP just cannibalised Scottish Labour and hollowed it out, only to turn itself in to a tartan version of NuLabour.
Perhaps after the impending UK General election we’ll see some movement in the Scottish political scene: I certainly hope so. In the UK as a whole though…? I tend to doubt it.
I think most little Englanders will just keep on keeping on. Predictions of the collapse of the current party political system, demands for electoral reform, radical action on the NHS or immigration or inequality or climate change & net zero all seem a bit…well…overwrought.
The English don’t really “do” meteoric do they?
FFS! YCBS! FFFFB tags! all over the place 🙂
Plese see this post Matt?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-broken-mike/comment-page-1/#comment-2815169
FFFFB tags
Matt Quinn says on 7 January 2024 at 2:08 pm: “And the ignore button seems to do precisely nothing – except highlight the person you’re ignoring!”
I think you’ve hit on something there, given every other permutation has been trialled by several of us to try and determine how this X thing works.
As you say, it seems to be just a facility to highlight individuals a person wishes to ignore. The only other possibility is the X function is entirely something else but it’s just not working on here, at least for some of us if not all of us.
Most of the time i don’t, as a rule, deliberate ignore anyone. If i don’t reply to someone who is addressing me, 99% of the time, it would be because i’ve not seen their comment. I can’t understand why anyone would need reminding of individuals they have previously chosen to ignore.
If i chose to ignore anyone then i’d imagine those individuals would have to have done something seriously bad and i think i’d remember them. I wouldn’t need reminding that i’m ignoring them. The whole X facility thing is truly baffling but your suggestion seems to be the only fitting explanation thus far.
Isn’t it strange? The Jock Abroad disappears and suddenly Ellis pops up.
Posting BS continuously.
@Stoker 3.24
The ignore button doesn’t make those you “X” disappear – more’s the pity as many have already observed. The full functionality is meant to do that, but apparently it doesn’t work on all WordPress versions, particularly if they’ve been customised a lot, which I’m guessing might be the case with WoS, though I have no technical insight on the under the bonnet workings.
You’re probably stuck with scrolling past the red boxers for the time being.
https://wordpress.com/plugins/commenter-ignore-button
I need reminding of loads of things!
Easy to drift into reading a post that you would have preferred to ignore to prevent being wound up by their ‘antagonistic flame-baiting’.
Easier when you see a pic of ‘Max Headroom’ for example but not so when there is no pic.
I like the ‘red & green’ warning which is a good substitute for the lack of ‘Max Headroom’ pics.
@ Anton Decadent on 7 January 2024 at 3:19 pm
Yeah, i remember that period you refer to but was unaware of the detail you mention. Thank you! I can also remember the time when the old Rangers visited Celtic Park and a large percentage of their following ran amok and totally smashed up the toilet facilities.
An off-duty police officer was one of the rioters identified. After this was revealed in the media i never seen any further media mention of the case. To this day i often wonder what, if anything, happened to those responsible and did that officer get to keep his job? I guess we will never know.
A bit like those riots in George Square, Glasgow, carried out by a large number of BritNat Rangers fans a few years ago. Police Scotland initially made aa trivial amount of arrests but added they were actively investigating and they will continue to pursue those responsible blah blah blah.
That case also seemed to drift into obscurity. You would think a responsible media would have the moral duty and professionalism to keep such matters alive, wouldn’t you? Not the pathetic excuse for a media we have here in Scotland though – unprofessional & corrupt as feck it would seem.
And you can bet on your life that had that been pro-indy supporters who tore-up Glasgow city centre the story would never be off the front pages until every single individual responsible was dealt with. Even then the BritNat media would never stop reminding us of how violent and aggressive we are etc.
“If the same strong desire for change really does exist in Scotland, then its most obvious manifestation would be a meteoric rise in support for a new(ish) party pledging to address that desire.”
John Main.
Its only been twenty-odd years since Scots voted for their own parliament in that time we’ve had an indy ref and been betrayed by every FM except Salmond, not to mention a plethora of House Jocks loyal to a foreign country, yet the desire for indy still hovers around the 50% mark, perhaps more if we didn’t have a treacherous bunch of SNP MPs/MSPs since Sturgeon the betrayer took over.
Add in that Scots are propagandised 24/7 by the foreign media in Scotland that passes as Scottish, that independence is bad, I’d say that the call to dump the union from Scots has held steadfast, and I predict it will grow when the right person is in Bute House.
As for BRICS as your best buddy Ellis points them out, they’ve welcomed five new countries into the bloc this month, it should’ve been six countries but Argentina decided to destroy itself and it economy by electing Milei, who appears to be a Great Satan (US) admirer, Milei is one of the few leaders moving towards dollarisation, most are moving away from it, what happened in Chile with Margaret Thatcher’s great friend in mind (General Pinochet) might happen in Argentina.
Stoker wrote:
“The whole X facility thing is truly baffling but your suggestion seems to be the only fitting explanation thus far.
Other than poor UI implementation and design perhaps?
I rarely post or respond here… actually; I don’t often find the patience to scroll through all the incoherent babble and read what there might be of sense or relevance. – The facility to ‘de clutter’ the comments section would perhaps make it readable. – It would also be useful if some sort of ‘threading’ could be incorporated and perhaps even the facility to upvote/down vote posts. …Things that were ‘discovered’ to be beneficial in the late 90s.
Hey ho… not my monkey, not my zoo.
Strangely enough I have work to do and a business to run; a real life. I don’t live my life on the internet and certainly not here an odd little side alley which I sometimes pass by. – Having been online since before the WWW even existed, it had all got quite passé by about 2001, when I found myself in a lecture room teaching others HTML. -The clue here being that it (HTML) is not a new thing or something known only to the cognoscenti.
The advent of the idiot-phone (and ironic consequent dumbing-down of the online world) and platforms which facilitate ‘computing for the stupid’ has not improved matters online.
For example …as someone who has spent their entire working life (44 years and counting) behind a broadcast camera (figuratively as well as literally); some demented fanny waving their pathetic wee plastic phone in my face ‘threatening me with ‘exposure’ on YaChoob or FuckwitBook or more-comically still Twat-Tok – is the online equivalent to some ill-bred educationally-challenged primary school child, threatening to write bad things in crayon on the school lavvy walls; or make up a tall tale to tell the teacher.
I can think of one particular individual (at St Catherine’s Primary Barmulloch 1968-74) who did actually keep a list of people they ‘weren’t talking to’; the rest of us were supposed to fear inclusion… not that the individual concerned was particularly popular or likeable or bright; in fact they were (on later reflection) something of a narcissist with possible burgeoning mental health problems.
– But they took inexplicable delight in telling people they were ‘on the list’. Whereas nobody on the list actually gave a fuck. …Still; it saved the Janny time having to rub crayon off the lavvy.
The cross remains (to most of us living in the real world) completely pointless… Just poor UI implementation adding to that which is already stuck in 1997!
Ruby..
**That’s TURABDIN got the X now & so has Geri.**
*Fckin gutted* LOL
The one greetin’ about moderation is now moderating everyone else LMAO!
Touche tho…
P.S. The discussion followed from the original article regards EU polling for Indy. EU citizens didn’t vote indy last time & I doubt Ellis claim. Most feel nationalism as anathema. They’ve first hand experience of the wrong kind. They’ll hardly move here to support it.
Main – the giant nursing home is deliberate. No outlook. No prospects. They move here for free childcare, healthcare, prescriptions, eye care, dental, better NHS, no water meters, no extortionate rates, free elderly care & cheaper properties. All the stuff Scots mitigate £600 million+ against – Then they vote yoon knowing fine well SNP will fix it through our pocket money.
They aren’t moving here to vote Yes. Proof is in the rise of Tories since 2015. We nearly had those feckers extinct. TWICE. Only to make a revival as soon as SNP built thousands of homes.
Pretendy badges & baubles have been around for centuries. The House of Lords is stuffed full of them. No better an example then Baroness tank commander, Roof the mouth.
Achievement’s = zero.
Achievement’s to Scotland = zero.
Yet there she is shaping UK laws.
The SNP will soon join them. It’s been well documented they see themselves & shaping themselves as a new Labour party & I fully expect they will transition to going Nationwide soon enough. Those doff capping serfs won’t want to miss a place at the trough.
Pretendy titles & baubles is what the Brits are famous for to keep things tickety boo..
Ruby 11:52
Is that your idea of staying on topic?
Teaching HTML when no one asked you too?
LMAO!
Didn’t take you long to break yer own rule eh?
You couldn’t make this shit up.
Stick to topic.
@Andy Ellis,
Your framing is as dishonest as ever.
“So you plan is to disenfranchise non-native Scots and declare independence on the basis of less than 50% of the Scottish people voting for it?”
I see your dishonest calculation there; the sovereign Scots would be the real ‘Scottish people’ for the purpose of the independence referendum, so the non-enfranchised Scots wouldn’t therefore count towards the total of which we want 50%+. We therefore only need 50%+ of the enfranchised electorate on this matter, not 50%+ of the total electorate which would require a different franchise.
“You and a minority of cranks don’t get to randomly separate the goats from the sheep in support of your vision of ethnic purity”
That’s not what we are doing; we are advocating a franchise that respects the sovereignty of the native Scots in a constitutional matter of existential importance to them in their own country, and their sovereignty entitles them to make the final decision on the matter, because that’s precisely what being sovereign means! Randomness doesn’t come into it, that’s the point.
You can also fuck off with your ‘ethnic purity’ slur; I’d have no problem with the franchise accepting non-natives of suitably long term residence, which doesn’t depend on ethnicity at all, and also has the backing of the UN Charter for these matters. Nevertheless, the majority of the franchise will still likely be ethnic Scots, at least if we don’t wait too long! The bottom line for me and others is that Scotland’s sovereignty is really important here, and should not be casually ignored, nor casually conferred!
PS, I’m not the crank wearing a rubber wig.
“you don’t represent the independence movement, any political party which supports independence, or any political figure of any note who support independence.”
Neither do you. And don’t bother to get back to us if any of that changes.
Republicofscotland 12pm
**He will say that although it will not happen overnight, independence will mean Scotland can begin to start catching up on more prosperous countries such as Denmark, Ireland and Finland.”**
I hope someone from the audience pipes up to ask what they’ve done in the last ten years in government while they had six mandates on Sturgeons desk.
If SNP win the next GE they will do the exact same – sit on their arse. We don’t need crap from Dumbza telling us all what we could’ve won. It’s them that failed to do anything – not WM & not the electorate who gifted them repeated golden tickets to get off their arse. Brexshit took 6 yrs to exit – it’s not like it came as a fckin surprise to them.
Not a single thing. No way are they getting another 5 years.
For a bit of context for new visitors reviewing Andy Pandy’s ruminations ,Andy has returned home recently from the south of engerland where he spent 30 years or so, Andy has a english wife and daughter who he assures us will vote for independence hence his insistance that the franchise should remain as is, Andy has also stated PUBLICLY on this blog that if anyone DARES to change the franchise he will most definitely ACTIVELY work against independence, Andy also unarguably KNOWS what the ICJ UN and every other international body is thinking and what conditions they will accept on any given subject
Andy thinks he is unique as does John Moan his other name in proposing plebiscitery elections for independence because commenters BTL have been too stupid to realise that that is the way to go, but when you’re a narcissistic gobshite only YOUR opinion counts
ANDY ELLIS
Without becoming too mired in worldviews, Scotland is by default part of anglo-american aka anglosphere. Whether it is happy their depends on how conditioned one is to the powerlessness of inhabiting a house designed and built by others.
I am not part of this sphere, i may take it or leave it at will.
We live in a world with many options. Independence entails the courage to consider those options and climb out of the well worn rut of custom.
Stay in the rut and eventually the wheels of the jaggernaut will crush you.
He is also dishonest about the international community.
Plenty of countries have agreed to terminate a treaty without asking anyone at all. They are SOVEREIGN. They can do what the fck they like!
Scotland IS SOVEREIGN.
She is in a Union.
She needs no permission to leave a treaty.
She especially doesn’t need to ask Betty Fae Manchester what she thinks & whether it meets her approval or not.
It was fully recognised by WM too. All Scots had to do was send a majority of MPs & declare they were leaving.
No ref, no fanfare, no section 30, no asking Betty fae Manchester, Pedro fae Spain or some English twat in WM.
A declaration after a democratic event IS accepted by the international community. The ballot box has spoken. It IS an authority.
In fact, it was recognised so much that it was actually SNP policy for decades before Sturgeon got her mitts on it.
Ellis just makes shit up as he goes along & pretends to be a world authority on not only the independence movement but on international law too FFS.
Maybe he missed where Alba has already sought international advice on the matter. I bet they’re thinking thank fck for that! Or was pie would be in every meet telling everyone where they’re going wrong ZZzzzz.
@TURABDIN 6:06
The “house designed and built by others” owes much of its design and construction to the millions of Scots who went there in its formative years.
If my own family is anything to go by, it was the brightest, the hardest grafting, and the most ambitious that left. Today’s Scots, largely the descendants of those who lacked that essential “get up and go”, are much reduced as a result.
@Turabdin 6.06 pm
I dunno, do you really think that post independence Scots are suddenly going to decide to “go it alone” particularly after recent events and the decision of Sweden and Finland to join NATO?
Much as certain folks may have the hots for the idea of neutrality, or doubtless if some had their way joining the CIS with their mates Vlad and Aleksandr, most Scots are likely to continue with a broadly pro Atlanticist liberal democratic path.
Doubtless if they decide not to, they’ll vote for parties advocating for a change. Ah hae ma doots!
I cannot stand Horsebox Russell.
Total coward, eyes like two pissholes in the snow, and an huge enabler of the two biggest rats in Scotland in a hundred years.
Greasy, slimy, corrupt SNP appointee, with a foul stench of betrayal about him.
All the world is queer save thee and me even thou art a little queer..
@Geri 6.17pm
You seem a bit triggered mate. Nobody buys the “all we need is a majority of MPs” schtick anymore. Get with the programme. It’s 2024, not 1974. A majority of MPs at Westminster may have been enough before Holyrood, but nobody is going to recognise an independent Scotland without a clear majority vote, in response to a clear question on a specificallt plebiscitary platform.
It matters not whether it’s a referendum or a plebiscitary General Election at either Westminster or Holyrood. Preferably the latter for most of us now I reckon.
You shoot yourself in the foot: it WAS SNP policy, it isn’t now, because they’re not mental even if they are useless.
I’m not making stuff up. I’m not an authority, but unlike you I’m pretty well versed in the arguments because I studied the subject in depth. Inchoate screeching about sovereign Scots on your part doesn’t help.
As for Alba’s international advice, do tell: we’re all ears. Put up or shut up time. Or perhaps as we suspected all along you’re just a blow hard? The red box ignore awaits, but I’m sure undecideds wait your response with bated breath.
Geri.
Yousaf will give his speech in the University of Glasgow, a known unionist safe house and Britnat staging post, I’m fully expecting no difficult questions for Yousaf tomorrow, a bit like a Question Time episode where the audience is stacked, usually in favour of the Tories and the union.
I’m fully prepared to see an Orange Jacket Man pop up in the audience, possibly a Scotland Matters plant invited in.
Yousaf might shoot the person down in a planned exchange of words, the Britnat media will then report it as Yousaf defending independence, and those that are unaware that Yousaf has no interest in ridding Scotland of this rancid union, will think Yousaf is our indy champion and vote for the SNP at the GE, when the that couldn’t be further from the truth.
https://archive.is/mAOdw
The only person I can ‘moderate’ is myself and that is what I am doing.
You didn’t ask for lessons in basic html but you really should imho. 🙂
What does the ** or the single * mean?
I was expecting some reference to these at the end of your post.
Good luck with your ‘pissing contest’ with Ellis. I’ve seen it all before hence the reason for the ‘self-moderation’
Are really fuckin’ gutted petal?
Soz!
“Ah hae ma doots!”
@6.32pm.
Careful John Main, you are beginning to get your personas mixed up.
**most Scots are likely to continue with a broadly pro Atlanticist liberal democratic path.**
I must’ve missed the democratic vote we had on joining NATO.
Scotland, I believe, would be heart fcking sick of paying into Unions for not a lot back, don’t you?
A country should pay for it’s OWN defence. Not rely on paid outside forces who may not actually take your side in a conflict eh?
Post independence Scotland has vast waters & resources that need protecting. Having & building our own defense.
I believe Scotland would join an alliance. Not a mafia protection racket which is what NATO has turned into being. Along with a huge chunk of free real estate. It’s colonised half the world already under the pretendy banner of *peacekeeper* while it breaks international law & goes rogue at the behest of America.
@ Ruby on (previous btl thread) 7 January 2024 at 8:42 am
No problem, you’re welcome. I found it quite therapeutic, got a lot off my chest too. LOL! 🙂
______________
@ Andy Ellis on 7 January 2024 at 3:46 pm:
Yeah, i seen that the other day when it was first posted on here and tried but failed to simplify an understanding of it. When it comes to anything tech-related i’m in the clueless ignorant halfwit category and my shutters come down PDQ. When i need help with tech i conference-call my 12-year-old grandson ffs. LOL! But i do get the general gist of your post though, thanks.
Sturgeon the betrayer of Scotland refused to take Alf’s advice and now the taxpayer will fork out yet again. Alf for FM you betcha.
“A hybrid electric ferry hailed by Nicola Sturgeon is now only running on polluting diesel because a £1.5million battery is taking 18 months to replace. The MV Hallaig was the first in the world to use a system which cut carbon emissions by 20 per cent when it was launched in 2012.
But the battery broke on the £10million vessel in September and bosses have admitted it could be April 2025 before it’s fixed because the replacement part is no longer available. It’s now the third problem ferry in Scotland after the controversy over the MV Glen Sannox and MV Glen Rosa which are six years overdue and £260million over budget.
Alfred Baird, formerly professor of maritime business and director of the Maritime Transport Research Group at Edinburgh Napier University, said he was consulted on the hybrid ferries but advised against them. He claims officials at the Scottish Government then complained to his bosses about his work and tried to stop his research being published.”
https://archive.is/V2m0D
No I wont be going anywhere! I’m going to stay here and keep a very close eye on you and your name changes.
Sometimes folk here can be slow to catch on because they are very trusting unlike myself who has a very suspicious mind.
I’ve got my eye on you TURABDIN!
@Xaracen 5:53
As a matter of principle then, any Indy party standing on an election platform of pursuing Indy via referendum must specify the franchise requirements in advance.
Taking the votes of any, in order to get to the situation where a referendum will be held, but on a restricted franchise, is unacceptable, if not clarified beforehand.
To put it in a form suitable for TwatHater: “Vote for us, AND we will hold an Indy REFERENDUM where you won’t BE allowed a vote” will go down LIKE a plate of puke on the DOORSTEPS.
AND to be QFH, with most fair-minded Sovereign SCOTS too.
In fact, when you see it SPELLED out like this, YOU start to see that the restricted FRANCHISE idea is such a non-starter, that no SAVVY political party will ever go NEAR it.
I don’t think anybody is going to vote in favour of being denied a vote.
I’m shocked but not surprised by this.
“On average, 79% of U.S. adults nationwide are literate in 2023.
21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2023.
54% of adults have a literacy below a 6th-grade level (20% are below 5th-grade level).
Low levels of literacy costs the US up to 2.2 trillion per year.
34% of adults lacking literacy proficiency were born outside the US.
Massachusetts was the state with the highest rate of child literacy.
New Mexico was the state with the lowest child literacy rate.
New Hampshire was the state with the highest percentage of adults considered literate.
The state with the lowest adult literacy rate was California.
On average, nationwide, 66% of 4th grade children in the U.S. could not read proficiently in 2013.”
https://www.thinkimpact.com/literacy-statistics/
Shame your post ended up at the end of the last thread where it won’t be widely read.
I think it deserves to be re-posted many times.
Andy Ellis
You have RoS triggered too with your “Ah hae ma doots”.
Are you thinking what I’m thinking?
You drop the occasional “Show us the money” and I’ll reference “Moonhowlers” from time to time. It’s all good stuff on the shits and giggles front!
A majority of MPs sent to Westminster is what we call a MANDATE.
It’s is exactly the same today as it was yesterday & will be tomorrow.
Only stupid people think it wouldn’t matter & come out with bullshit like Gold standards, international community, pretendy new rules & the latest trick of including % targets & set periods they’ve only just dreamt up.
All IRRELEVANT.
Scotland is a country . She is sovereign. The treaty belongs to her & her people. Not you & yer mates. & will have conducted a democratic event. She has issued a MANDATE to carry out her wishes.
BUT she is under no obligation to ask anyone. She can simply terminate the treaty on the grounds of being obsolete, not fit for purpose & consistently breeched if she chose to & not anyone in Westminster, or the international community, can say otherwise. Scotland has a constitution. She is also a partner. You continually put Scotland into the category of subordinate. Not an equal signatory. Are you supposed to be independence supporter? Could’ve fooled me!
That’s what happens with contracts. They’re declared void when they’re breeched & the boss doesn’t ask the employees if it’s OK with them first LOL.
The Great Satan (US) in Taiwan, two can play at that game, but no missiles required.
“Tianjin Port in North China launched a direct route to South America on December 21, 2023… Ten ships carrying 3,500 to 4,500 containers each will serve the route, transporting regional products such as shrimp, beef, tropical fruits, wine and grain from South America and China-made products ranging from glass and steel to bicycles and automobiles.
“The expanding sea routes reflect strong trade flows between China and the region. In 2022, China-Latin America trade approached the $500 billion mark, maintaining a rapid growth for six consecutive years.
“ ‘China and Latin American countries have high economic complementarity, which generates ample room for foreign trade growth on both sides,’ said Zhou, noting that free trade agreements (FTAs) will accelerate the process.”
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202401/1304818.shtml
Link to full text of application by South Africa to institute proceedings against Israel for committing genocide:
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
RoS
The situation is even worse where arithmetic is concerned.
Across the US, 65% pass the basic tests and are considered to be numerate, but a whopping 47% fail and so are innumerate!
It’s claimed that in as many as 10 states, up to 90% of adults score below the average score for the adults in that state.
Maybe posters can show a bit of courtesy to others in this site, at least in the first couple of days of the article being publish, by saying at beginning of their post that is off-topic if it isn’t relevant to the article?
@John Main 7.23 pm
Ah well: moonhowlers probably enjoy just howlin’ in to the void though right? I’ve decided to act as though the ignore function works as it was designed to and treat anyone red boxed as nonexistent.
It’ll be a bit like the relationship between Bes?el and its “twin city” of Ul Qoma in China Miéville’s novel “The City and the City”. 🙂
The new season of ” Ellis In Blunderland ” is shaping-up to be as shite as all the previous ones . Netprix needs to up it’s game .
The elevation of former minor character ” Johnny Main ” to a more prominent role was a BIG mistake : that endlessly repeated catchphrase of his – ” Show us the honey , mummy ” is tedium taken to cruel and * unusual * lengths .
It was never the same after ” Hatuey ” left : n it was pretty crap to start with .
The hypocrisy of the Genocide enabling West is there for all to see.
“By the end of 2022, 18 journalists had been killed covering the war in 404. It was a deadly year for reporters – 67 killed worldwide. The journalists of 404 won a Pulitzer for their sacrifice.
In just 3 months, Israel has killed 109 journalists in Gaza, 3 in Lebanon”
The great Satan & it’s minion, the English government .. aren’t very fond of journalists.
They aren’t very fond of international law & the UN either.
But somehow they’ve to be obeyed & their word is gospel or Scotland won’t be accepted into their club LOL
I can’t think of a worst country to agree with. I’d immediately recognise I was on the wrong side of history.
I had a wee look at the ‘Commenter Ignore Button’
plug in.
I seems this is an out of date plug-in. Hasn’t worked with the last three versions of WordPress.
That’s been since 2014 around the same time as the ‘SNP plug-in’ stopped working and was no longer compatible with the latest version of the electorate.
I have a lot of experience with out of date software and it’s bloody annoying only in my case I have the opposite problem my software doesn’t work with the latest three versions of the Mac OS.
However I’m not that bothered about the ‘CIB’ not working properly I’m fine with the ‘red & green’ warning.
How is the ‘moderating plug-in’ doing? Are folk still getting caught out with the ‘banned words’?
Tommy Sherpard: “If the SNP lose the election in Scotland, the debate on independence stops.”
Fuck the SNP. Fuck the SNP. Fuck the SNP. Fuck the SNP. FUCK THE SNP.
Die!
Warning to potential SNP canvasers in this year’s coming election. You will be spat on.
Mark Beggan says: 7 January, 2024 at 8:40 pm
From the comments on this site, there won’t be any as the party has alienated and driven away most decent activists.
I finally realised just how much of a fraud Mike Russell was when I questioned him about Plan B options at a meeting in Elgin.
He became really flustered and agitated when pushed for an answer.
He came back with an angry “well what would you suggest?” long after all the proposed options had been aired by numerous people with far more clout than me
Absolute fraud, and quite possibly a longterm UK plant in the ranks.
In other news I see Andy Ellis has miraculously reappeared spouting the same shite as before
It’s almost like tag team “let’s bring this one out of cold storage “
Thank god for the new ignore function
@Robert Hughes (7.48)
🙂 🙂 🙂
It is very interesting to watch Sturgeon saying her care planes may not work.
Quite surprising really given not much else she did, didn’t work very well.
On top of that Shepherd is saying independence will stop if the SNP don’t win. It has already stopped you bampot!! You are in the way.
Did his comedy club every explain why the staff suddenly found a speaker’s proposed talk so offensive they were not going to open. Never heads of club staff giving up a shift. Wonder where the idea came from Tommy?? Must check the zipper on the back of my heed!!
Oh and I see they must have found another Murrell IOU in the cash box!!
Is that 6 months since police Scotland started their investigation. These boys can really move!!
I suspect independence will definitely stop, if the SNP win. There is no reason to assume otherwise.
Past performance is a guide to the future or at least a good indication.
Robert Hughes
Hatuey famously predicted the Covid Spreaders would invade Taiwan by Xmas 2022. There was never any come back from that level of delusional self certification.
Regarding the “show us the money” challenge, you should take it up.
Millions of Indy votes to be won with a convincing spiel, so take your time to get it right.
matt quinn, good comment
Chomsky wrote a piece, about 20 years ago, about how the universities were going down the stank; in theory a uni is an ideal workplace, a community of people doing work which enthuses them, but like so many things, it’s turned to shit. A grind and a rat race like anywhere else. The rise of the administrators is to blame – this class of people, who don’t do any teaching or research has progressed immeasurably over the years. Everything is short time contracts, teaching not done by lecturers but the postdocs.
GU, is a great/bad example; it has seen a building boom, so there is money there, but I suspect it is driven by overseas student fees. They created a “graduate school”, while shutting down the research students club, a small property of little matter – but they seemed to take a vindictive approach to it, like it was a nest of subversion.
The basic physics degree is now 5 years, an MPhys and if you want a PhD, then that probably gets spun out to 5 years as well. Instead of getting doctored at 24, you will be nearer 30.
Being a postdoc was a vicious competition for temporary posts which paid nuthin (even at “top unis” like oxford); in spite of the ongoing boom, “tenured” jobs, being actual lecturer, professor, are very rare. In theory, everyone dies in the end, but why not just get more postdocs, on short term contracts?
Students are now customers, and those degrees are being paid for, so, take it easy with the marking. Don’t annoy the students, or their parents will turn up. (Given how easy it is to cheat, it’s sad they still can’t make the effort – google, chatGPT, youtube vids, github, the social media/blog of a guy who did the course last year).
Then there is the woke nonsense; a relative of mine told me the students, some of them, -changed- their gender identity on a daily basis … and you had to respect this. She is now retired, happy.
The vice chancellor becomes like a lord monboddo character in a Gray novel, untouchable, subtle, devious, and thoroughly malign.
Uni, for the kids, becomes like a big party, for a while; they stumble to the end with an inflated degree class (costumers!) and find a massive hangover awaits them; stone cold sober at 4am, with a blinding headache, a massive debt (not yet in Scotland), not covered by bankruptcy laws, and without academic position or career you thought you should have. It’s a bait and switch, you have been sold a bill of goods. This may not be much fun, masters in medieval history, competing like a dog for an entry level position in starbucks, but it seems harmless enough (if rotten for the individual) but it’s not; consider from the 70s onwards we have a generation of arts graduates who had to be schooled in queer/gender/critical/race theory – there were never enough jobs for them in academia, so they spilled out into larger society, and it is arts graduates who make up the government bureaucracies and HR departments of corporations – you have an army of the disgruntled whose only ability is to do social engineering.
– and all this is because the universities were retooled from being “centres of learning” into becoming businesses. Another neoliberal wrecking operation.
The good jobs which exist seem to be dished out as prizes, for loyalty and deeds done; nothing to do with ability, and so you have an entire grifter class of insiders who flit between these succulent, knife and fork jobs; Russell, to give him some credit, seems to have been ahead of the curve, knew how it was going, how it worked. People like this are not going to charge the machine guns for independence.
– what’s Kezia’s publication list like since she became a “professor”? Trebles all round.
@RoS 7:51
It’s quite a dilemma, eh?
Enable a questionable genocide, or, by turning our backs, enable a certain one.
Myself, I’d rather have neither, but there are two sides, each sworn to wipe the other from the face of the earth. One side or the other will pack it in eventually, but they’ll take their own sweet time. Meantime, the eventual ultimate body count matters not one jot to both sides. Harsh, but true.
Such a shame we’re not the doughty colonialist invaders of old. We could step in and crack heads together until they stop. But then you’d be head of the queue to find fault with that too.
And so the killing continues. Some deluded nutters believe that some weasel words from the UN, proposed by the laughable SA asset stripping tyrants, and backed up by the likes of imperialist President P, are going to make it all stop.
Laughable, naw?
the ellis-cat has been “belled” almost immediately, without the tedious weeks/months of many folks taking him at face value
– and he turns up without even any “new material”. Poor show.
Not got a new album out? Holyrood Prison Blues?
– no, that will be a Murrell production, Peter No-Cash and the Camper-Van Wokehovens, with Harvie on the maracas, doing a Bez
“Scott” did not mind wasting his time beasting Ellis nightly – maybe he needs a recall
just use your common sense folks : people who post constantly with posts that reek of hatred and contempt for the Scots and Scotland, are not for independence
main – get up and go had nothing to do with anything, you scrofulous yoon-arrhea – this historical worldview of yours is out of ripping yarns, zulu and 633 squadron, i.e. fabricated wank for the crimes of the worst entity in human history – empire
@John Main 9.10pm
There was definitely a wee want about yon Hatuey. His Nostradamus like powers obviously let him down about the Middle East too. Still, as we know there are quite a few posters who see the world as they would like it to be, rather than as it actually is.
They’ve even somehow convinced themselves that “Sovereign Scots” represent more than the modern equivalent of the Tooting Popular Front.
It is funny what you learn from life.
Words we use like Good and Evil have (many) other duals that mean exactly the same thing. For example…
Good versus Evil is the exact same as Truth versus Lies.
This blog and the GG folk on it are fighting for truth, that has been obvious for a very long time.
I don’t know any of you really but I am on your side.
@John Main 9.23pm
I love the thought of Sa taking the moral high ground after refusing to arrest Sudanese dictator and genocidal maniac Omar al-Bashir when he visited in 2015, despite the ICC warrant for his arrest. Indeed they threatened to leave the ICC, only backing down when the SA courts declared withdrawal unconstitutional. The headcount of Al-Bashir’s regime in the Darfur genocide makes you wonder why they’re not pursuing him….?
Perhaps there are other reasons than just the disparity in numbers…? alert readers can draw their own conclusions no doubt.
I’ve had a few good laughs today.
A special thanks goes to Robert Hughes, Confused and the Australian comedian I saw on Stu’s twitter thread. The one who loves the L the G the B the T and the Q.
Sovereign nations decide what treaties they want to remain in & which ones they don’t.
Scotland is a sovereign nation.
In a treaty with an equal Sovereign nation.
Neither nation has power that trump’s the other.
Two Sovereign nations who can each end the treaty whenever they like without having to invent fictitious rules according to Ellis & his yoony mates.
The English government isn’t the Great Oz.
Sovereign states recognises other sovereign states.
NOT fictitious permission slips granted fae England.
Suck it up, buttercup. Yer Empire is deid.
Here he is:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744028702839628126
Warning: CONTAINS ADULT LANGUAGE & THEMES
Confused @ 9:20 pm
“Chomsky wrote a piece, about 20 years ago, about how the universities were going down the stank”
In the research for my book ‘Doun-Hauden’ I looked at some 30 departments academic staff at three of Scotland’s ‘ancient’ universities. My findings suggested that only around 1 in 10 academic staff at Scotland’s elite institutions are Scottish, hence most come from outside Scotland. The ratio for postgrad research staff was rather similar, whilst at undergrad level there appears to be at best around 1 in 3 students who are Scottish and with evidence that Scots have great difficulty gaining access to courses.
To remedy this longstanding failure to provide Scots with educational opportunities my proposal for an independent Scotland would be to establish a National University of Scotland. This National University would have a primary aim to nurture Scottish academics and focus on meeting the needs of Scottish students and Scottish society/economy, giving Scots opportunities they currently do not have access to under the present set-up.
Scotland’s universities are basically international businesses masquerading as charities and mainly interested in high fee student income from outside Scotland. They are also high status-conferring bastions of British unionism run by an elite who are mostly not Scottish and who know and care little for their host nation or its people. The elite universities in particular are effectively holding back development of Scots and of Scotland.
Alf
I don’t doubt what you say; when you come to do grad work you find all your supervisors are english, especially oxbridge. Maths/Physics is a specifically Cambridge mafia.
– just over 20 years ago now there was almost an anti-anglo pogrom at Edinburgh Uni; the insular, entitled, overprivileged rich anglo students had pissed off so many people, there had been a toxic atmosphere created and everyone was talking about the “YAHS”. There was even a comic strip in the student news paper; the yahs complained this was bigoted language like use of the n-word … no self awareness. Decent, working class english students would introduce themselves with “Im not a yah …”
I think the final straw was when the police were called to a new town flat (no ordinary students live in the new town) – a dead animal was hanging outside the building. The yahs were hanging a game bird, since they like their meat near rotten. The plebs didn’t understand all this, but the mutterings grew.
The next year, supposedly, the admissions office tweaked their points system for entry in order to get less of these types and the problem went away. The daily mail went mental about this.
I love Edinburgh, but it feels like occupied territory; the amount of construction work being done there is amazing, and they seem to be operating / aping the “trickle down” economics of London and South East, to Edinburgh and the A720. Shame if you live “beyond the rim”.
Buying a flat for your student while at Edinburgh, was an english trick, and they almost always made a nice profit on it. Then there is the dark matter of the electoral register.
Nothing is Scottish anymore.
Even Police Scotland has bussed in a helper, Jo Farrell, who doesn’t even live here & will know absolutely hee-haw on Scots judiciary.
They’re really, really pushing this *one nation* shite.
Scots were far too academic minded for the thick in WM. Across the board in invention, medicine, the enlightenment – they had to curb it/dumb down so as not to embarrass their own woeful track record & what better way than to grant certificates on who can fart the loudest in class.
Oxford & Cambridge dump out pure dross to become PMs with a certificate only in entitlement & exceptionalisim.
It is interesting to see the furore that has erupted after the tv programme Mr Bates v The Post Office.
After about 20 years, suddenly the public has been made aware of this shocking miscarriage of justice against the post office workers. After all the court rulings in their favour,£58 million-was awarded, but only £12 million left for the victims of the computer failures. The bulk of the money went to the establishment lawyers, surprise, surprise !!
Does this not sum up the present UK situation and the corruption at the top of all government controlled organisations.
Good luck to all wingers that think it is time to get the gloves off.
Andy Ellis @ 9:32pm,
You and Hatuey were very much on the same side when it came to treating unvaccinated people worse than second class citizens to the extent that you likened us to drunk drivers.
You were high on your own pomposity when advocating for the creation of an untermensch.
Yet here you are on your high horse again calling people nativists because they don’t share your view on the franchise of who should or shouldn’t be allowed to vote on constitutional matters in Scotland.
Welcome back.
Republicofscotland
Ignored says:
7 January, 2024 at 3:06 pm
Alf Baird.
Excellent retorts to the usual suspects, these mutts need to have a go at you, because your comments on colonialism with Scotland in mind make perfect sense.
Keep the good work up Alf.
Same sentiments here Alf.
The pattern of ad hominem attacks is proof you’re getting under their skin… or at least trip-trapping over their rickety rackety bridge. 😉
The great Scottish Independence Swindle 2014-2024.
@Breastplate 11.57pm
Ah, another red boxer to be ignored hereafter!
Thanks for the welcome back bud. Hatuey may have been a tad odd, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. From memory his views on the “great unvaxxed” did seem a bit out there. My views were only those of the vast majority.
I know it kinda stings for those on here intent on spamming a once useful resource with their hobby horse takes on [insert tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theory du jour here], but such is life.
I can’t be held responsible if BTL comments here are in thrall to a small coterie holding fringe views on a variety of issues.
The good thing about the new ignore function is that, even if it doesn’t allow us to make the screeds of moonhowler content disappear, they are more easily identifiable and ignorable. You’re eminently qualified for inclusion, which would appear to be a result for both of us, eh?
@Benhope 11.29pm
The Horizon scandal has been talked about for years, so you’re right that it is odd it should take a prime time drama on TV to actually get people to sit up and take notice and (suddenly) demand action. Small wonder the country is in such a mess when it takes performative publicity fronted by actors the public like for anything to actually happen.
Perhaps we’re all on the wrong track: if we can persuade Ant & Dek to shoe-horn Scottish independence into their output, or promote it via “Celebrity Made in Chelsea on Ice Bake Off in the Jungle” we might actually make some progress.
Breeks @ 3:54 am
“trip-trapping over their rickety rackety bridge”
Aye, colonialism is a crime, according to the UN/ICJ. It is increasingly difficult for ‘the watchdogs of colonialism’ to defend their crimes’ The colonizer inevitably sink deeper into the mire grasping for colonialism’s fascist roots in order to keep the plunder going and the people oppressed (haud-doun); they are ‘condemned by their own hypocrisy’.
ANDY ELLIS @6:32pm
Then, alas, Scotland should bid farewell to the notion of independence.
The anglo-american ascendancy, Britishness and the anglospheric virus are well established in the insular «res».
Scottish nationalism has yet to offer an antidote.
But times and events may alter perspectives, as they are in European politics.
As a cosmopolitan outsider i do trust they will for Scotland’s sake.
Otherwise nasty nannie Britannia will have won.
@Alf Baird 10:31
It must be a generation ago that I twigged, from personal experience, that Edinburgh and St Andrews are the pre-eminent English universities in Scotland. There may well be others.
I’m guessing too that these varsities would form the nucleus of “breakaway republics” should iScotland ever come about.
Heck, if we can ever find people prepared to fight for us, amongst the non-confrontational peaceniks that seem to constitute so much of our toothless Indy movement, we could try to shell them into submission to Edinburgh rule!
But to be serious for a mo. It’s not a Scottish phenomena so we shouldn’t get too worked up about it. No way can London be regarded as an English city any more, and plenty of other English cities are now effectively third world enclaves.
It’s only the absolutists who think they will be able to hold Scotland together post Indy. If some areas, Edinburgh say, are now effectively colonised, I would prefer to let them go their own way, over starting a shooting war.
The same goes for obvious geographical areas, such as the Northern Isles, where integration with Norway is a far more obvious local preference.
Don’t get me started on pretendy FM Yousaf’s one million New Scots target! How Innarestin it is that there has been zero pushback against his plan.
Andy Ellis,
Yes, I’m sure the ignore button will come in handy for avoiding self awareness of your Dunning Kruger affliction and turning down the volume of your cognitive dissonance.
I’ve already explained to you, many moons ago, that history is littered with the majority being wrong but I have no doubt you will continue to believe you are right on any given subject, simply because you swim with the current.
Feel free to pretend you haven’t read this.
ALF BAIRD
Colonialism, however defined, has many faces and not all are bad. It was agents of «colonialism» that took an interest in Egyptian civilization, la Déscription de l’Égypte is a monumental work of enlightenment science. The French, and to a certain extent the Italians, brought beneficial aspects of modernity eg town planning to their colonies. The Germans in theirs established vocational schools.
The British were less inclined to such improving initiatives leaving suchlike largely to missionaries. So called New Delhi designed by Lutyens inspired Hitler in his dream of Germania. Although early old India hands did go native and learned Sanskrit and «Hindustanee».
Colonialism is at its worst when entering the mind it reduces the subject to that of a marginalized supplicant. The French educated Vietnamese, Algerians, Tunisians, Syrians in values that led to the demise of French colonialism.
The Brits taught their colonials to play cricket, act the snob and speak with odd accents.
What did Scotland get from all this? a purely rhetorical matter.
As somebody has brought up the subject of ad hominem attacks …
I reckon it would be quite instructive to analyse a few threads at random, extract all examples of ad hominem, and classify them.
Very loosely, if we allow for two major classifications of posters:
1 The traditionalists – learned their opinions by rote prior to 2014 – learned nothing since – adamant their road is the only road to Indy, despite all the evidence they see around them.
2 The disrupters – scunnered by the total clusterfuck afflicting Scotland, and seeing plainly that this is the responsibility of the traditionalists, thus calling for Indy to ditch the Ancient Guff and find new populist plans, ideas, policies and personalities. And above all, form concrete plans to get shot of the fraudulent new pretender Yousaf.
My gut feeling is there are many more ad hominem attacks perpetrated by group 1 on group 2, than vice versa.
Which defo proves that group 1 posters claiming that adoption of AH tactics signifies a lack of plausibly convincing arguments, yet again, have failed to think things through.
Liking the traditionalists/disrupters classification! Might re-use it.
Good to see those Quango places getting filled…was Jeane Freeman busy?
They never stray too far from the feeding trough do they!
As I said earlier I’ve got my eye on you TURABDIN!
You say you are ‘not part of this sphere’ that you are ‘a cosmopolitan outsider’ which makes me wonder why you are posting here. Can you explain?
I really do not see the point of your posts.
Colin Carroll, aye the wee snouts in the trough like hungry wee piglets snuffling away = with apologies to piglets which I find absolutely delightful.
TURABDIN
Racism is hard-wired in the human psyche. It’s like sexism, part of what makes us human.
Colonialism is the societal expression of individual racism.
We can use our rational faculties to control racism, sexism and colonialism. But we can’t eliminate those drives that it took millions of years of evolution to embed in us.
Unless we go down the same route we used to eliminate unwanted evolutionary traits in dogs. Selective breeding, alongside merciless culling of the undesirables.
BTW, I think you’re a smidge harsh with your critique of British colonialism, containing as it did such a massive Scottish contribution. There’s some good things that would never have happened without it – Indian & Pakistani democracies, for example.
Dan , an article in the Guardian on how wonderful heat pumps are might interest you – sadly not open for comment otherwise I would have mentioned noise levels.
So, according to an STV news item, SNP drone Tommy Sheppard says…
“If the SNP lose the election in Scotland, the debate on independence stops”.
“That is why we must put aside our differences and unite.”
Two words Tommy… ‘Fuck’ and ‘Off’.
There is no “debate on independence” you moron!
Your party of troughing incompetents kicked Indy to the long grass years ago.
And as for “debate”, such a thing is as much a stranger to the the SNP as the truth is to Boris Johnson.
Indy is as dead with the SNP as it is with all the other devolutionist parties. Indy supporters are simply ballot box lubricant for the SNP machine, which exists not for the furtherance or benefit of Scotland, but for the benefit of SNP staffers and those who make a living “representing” those who are dumb enough to vote for them.
Only Yes and those parties that are pro-Indy can keep the flame alight and take us forward, and that excludes the charlatans in the SNP who have spent nearly a decade going precisely nowhere and have no strategy other than to get themselves re-elected.
Indy for Scotland!
SNP Out!
JOHN MAIN
William Dalrymple gives excellent value re the Scoto-Indians and their contribution to the sub continent. As i indicated not all aspects of «colonialism» were in fact as pernicious as the theorists may suggest.
Edward Said who kick started some of the revised insights into colonialism and its aftermath did not, as far as i know, look at the «going native» element and their subversive effect.
He had a particular ax to grind as one who felt an alien in the «Arab»crowd.
I do agree, the urge to explore and conquer new worlds is human. Empires are normative and occasionally they may even «civilize».
It’s bad especially if you are categorised as a ‘scheemie’
I don’t think all the ‘Yas’ are English but you could be fooled into think they are. There are a fair number of Scottish ‘Yas’ and then you have all those aspiring ‘Yas’ who go to private school.
Can you blame the parents for wanting the best for their children the ‘Yas’ get all the good jobs.
‘Scheemies’ are just foul mouthed harridans who suffer from tourettes. They can’t be educated. See pork. Andy Ellis the First.
John Main @ 9:11 am
“No way can London be regarded as an English city any more, and plenty of other English cities are now effectively third world enclaves.”
Yes, England today is exhibiting the consequence of its global colonial greed. Collaborators in numerous former colonies grasped their British citizenship and opted for the ‘safety’ of the mother country rather than stick around in a liberated colony where they might be viewed suspiciously; much like a stint in the French Foreign Legion fighting colonial wars often against their own people earned a native his French citizenship. 200,000 Hong Kong Chinese and 26,000 Afghans the most recent additions in the last couple of years, adding to the many millions before them and no doubt more on their way.
So the post-imperial UK ends up like a mini-USA with all the societal dis-functionalities, cultural disintegration and ghettos, and a corrupt Anglophone elite hegemony struggling to manage the impending chaos, amidst the realisation of many that they have been duped by the British ‘cultural illusion’.
Not only Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland perishing in this mindless imperial ‘last stand’, but the mother country itself – England – devoured by its own colonial greed.
TURABDIN @ 10:33 am
“I do agree, the urge to explore and conquer new worlds is human. Empires are normative and occasionally they may even «civilize».”
So-called “new worlds” were ancient worlds and cultures and often more civilized and courteous than the colonizer. We should not be confused about the meaning of ‘civilization’, and we might remember for our purposes here that:
“between colonization and civilization there is an infinite distance” (Aime Cesaire).
@Alf Baird
“So the post-imperial UK ends up like a mini-USA with all the societal dis-functionalities, cultural disintegration and ghettos, and a corrupt Anglophone elite hegemony struggling to manage the impending chaos, amidst the realisation of many that they have been duped by the British ‘cultural illusion’.”
Should we be talking to these guys?
http://www.progressivepulse.org/economics/steve-keen-and-michael-hudson
“Scotland is a country . She is sovereign. The treaty belongs to her & her people. Not you & yer mates. & will have conducted a democratic event. She has issued a MANDATE to carry out her wishes.
BUT she is under no obligation to ask anyone. She can simply terminate the treaty on the grounds of being obsolete, not fit for purpose & consistently breeched if she chose to & not anyone in Westminster, or the international community, can say otherwise. Scotland has a constitution. She is also a partner. You continually put Scotland into the category of subordinate. Not an equal signatory. Are you supposed to be independence supporter? Could’ve fooled me!
That’s what happens with contracts. They’re declared void when they’re breeched & the boss doesn’t ask the employees if it’s OK with them first LOL.”
First of all the Scottish people like the English, American etc etc have NEVER been sovereign re their countries as they have always been serfs to the Mafias that have always owned and controlled most of this planet. It is these Mafias that created the ILLUSION of freedom and democracy while continuing to enslave the people more and more sneakily as they slowly bring in their NWO agenda.
As I keep saying Treaties, Constitutions, Declarations, Claims etc etc are totally NOTHING to do with any man or woman who has not signed them themselves with full disclosure of what these documents are and what corrupt system they actually represent. It is these Mafias that signed all of these documents for THEIR benefit.
Most people are clueless about Contract and Trust Law and they are deliberately not taught any of this in school etc to keep the people ignorant – again if you did NOT sign any of these documents then they are NOTHING to do with you and they are relying on you consenting to agreeing to these documents with your ignorance and if you do not agree and they try and force you to comply with them in a court of “law” then they are committing fraud and deception and exposing that they are running a slave system where they are forcing you to comply with THEIR scam.
This scam system as I have said many times was Foreclosed (SHUT DOWN) in 2012 and all of THEIR Acts, Statutes, Treaties, Constitutions etc were as well and have NOT existed since then as per my video THE DEMOCRACY ILLUSION – EVERYTHING IS WAS A CORPORATION on my William Woods Youtube channel and they are not letting the people know any of this as they try and bring in their new One World Communist Government Social Credit System and as I have already said before as well the people on both sides of the independence argument are arguing away to continue to be slaves of these Mafias in THEIR scam system when you have been FREE since 2012.
In a new system MSP’s etc should only be allowed to be in parliament for two terms at most (with NO pensions etc) to stop this corrupt system of “professional” politicians doing what the political parties tell them to do or too scared to do what they should be doing for the benefit of the people in case they do not get selected by their party again if they go against the party for the benefit of the people and by doing this is should get rid of that fear and power of the political party and hopefully get people in that want to do the best for the people and country.
Would be better with all independent politicians who are knowledgeable of what is really going on in the country and world instead of the mostly dumb clueless clowns that we have in the parliaments just now.
Very interesting!
Is TURABDIN really arguing that colonisation is a good thing?
sam @ 11:18 am
“Should we be talking to these guys?”
Yes. But the key thing first is sovereignty. A people who have lost or given away their sovereignty are ‘out of the game’. Independence is about ‘reclaiming sovereignty’. The only bulwark against Imperialism in whatever shape or form is national sovereignty. Scots need to be able to do things our own way, not be dependent on external actors and their little ‘local helpers’. That means reclaiming and using our sovereignty.
I’m surprised that uppercase TURABDIN didn’t mention the colonisation of Spain by the Arabs (aka Moors). Ottoman Boys?
These Arab colonisers seemed like the good guys whereas Ferdinand, Isabella & Torquemada looked like the baddies.
Spain was then ‘colonised’ by the nazis which definitely wasn’t so good.
colinasation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_Se7ng6XQ
Mostly shit!
The Tartan Top Ten favourite words;
Down two places from last week at number ten: Colonialism!
Straight in at number nine the new kid in town: Nativist!
Still there at number eight: sovereignty!
The big hitter at number seven: Imperialism!
In at number six the magical numerical: 1707
Still alive at number five that old fireside favourite: Unionist!
Down one place from last week the largely misunderstood number four: Colonizer!
In at number three hee hee hee: Moonhowlers!
Coming to you at number two Grannies favourite: Traitors!
This weeks sizzler at number One: Anglosphere!
Yousaf is no leader and has completely lost control. Anyone, including MSP’s and MP’s can say what they like including the latest nonsense from Sheppard.
The SNP are ptoving to be an unmitigated disaster for our old country of Scotland.
Time to re-think the whole plan!
Alf Baird,
I am in totally agreement with your analyses that Scotland has been for the longest time under the mantel of Colonialism for all the the first markers that would require it to be identified as such,
But rather perhaps I accidentally came to this conclusion from researching background historical records regarding the Countries of Scotland and Englands history than thinking of colonialism as a first pointer identification.
The information propaganda relating to Scotland over many years and how records did not tally with the modern story-line envisaged and provided to most Scots in how they came be in this scenario of Great- Britain.
And none of it made sense, why would Scots believe such hogwash?
Well, the full blown propaganda fed to Scots starting from a time when news and evidence were not as free flowing or available to the ordinary man or women to research and check out for themselves
In that time period , Is the answer.
Covered by years of whitewash.
I found a few decrepancies at the beginning and it never occurred to myself to look any deeper until the unionist on Wings tried telling us it was ancient history guff and it was not important enough to be bringing that up on a Scottish supporting independence site.
That raised alarm bells. When Unionists do not want you digging to deep and wished the Scots to remain as ignorant as three hundred years ago.
That was Colonialism , in maintaining the ignorance of the natives whilst giving them a new invented history.
And still in my mind with the lack of understanding on my part, of why England would do this to the Scots and their Country for so many years did not make sense.
Until you posts on the history, Actions and methods physically and mentally on nations that are taught to believe in their Colonialism as natural circumstances that will never change. And never look behind them again to discover if in the historical record they are bound legally or imaginary by the Colonialists.
The Colonialist are still telling the Scots on “here” not to look or research the old legal propaganda guff in Scots old history for fear the “Colonised” may learn that their own predicament of being bound to England in a union is unveiled, and Colonial propaganda unravels.
Scots must learn for themselves where their own legal history is entwined with the propaganda of the Colonialist and where it is false dictat or illegal enslavement of their bodies and Country.
Many thanks Alf, for helping to find and mend the last missing pieces of the jigsaw.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition especially not when you are all totally stoned.
That is sadly what happened to the Ottoman Boys.
I wonder if Scotland has a similar problem.
We certainly seem to have problems in common with Native Americans & Native Australians vis a vis drugs & alcohol.
Is this due to colonisation?
In the case of the Ottoman Boys it was the colonisers who turned to drugs. Maybe they were home-sick and weren’t that keen on flamenco.
I wonder if some smart ass will point my error re flamenco. 🙂
I’m probably safe in here in the Ellis proof ‘red boxers’
Red boxers! Sounds like something a ‘man’ would wear when he’s having his period!
“Alf Baird
Ignored says:
8 January, 2024 at 12:02 pm
sam @ 11:18 am
“Should we be talking to these guys?”
Yes. But the key thing first is sovereignty. A people who have lost or given away their sovereignty are ‘out of the game’. Independence is about ‘reclaiming sovereignty’. The only bulwark against Imperialism in whatever shape or form is national sovereignty. Scots need to be able to do things our own way, not be dependent on external actors and their little ‘local helpers’. That means reclaiming and using our sovereignty.”
I agree.
I think these economists can help. They are not “external actors” since their interest is a revolution in economics that disposes of neoliberalism.
If that is not an aim of Scottish independence then what is the point of it?
Neoliberalism harms public health and education and enriches the already rich.
I haven’t heard any real campaigning in Scotland about the kind of political and economic system we would have when independent.
Why would supporters of independence not want knowledgeable people like Keen and Hudson to engage with them and discuss what an economic revolution might mean in the context of Scotland.
Of course, you have not yet taken the time to listen to them.
Who is saying what to whom?
sam
Ignored
says:
“Alf Baird
Ignored says:
sam @ 11:18 am
“Should we be talking to these guys?”
Ach never mind! It’s all too much like hard work. I don’t even know who ‘these guys’ are.
Best just to give me a X Sam. Put me in ‘red boxers’! 🙂
http://tinyurl.com/km725ffr
Btw
Has Nicola received any word of the promised job at the UN??
Funny that, I thought her UK masters would have put in a word for her by now.
…and from the broken Mike to the broken record. So many posters, that supposedly support the same cause, backbiting, gouging and traducing each other. It somehow makes me glad we failed in our independence vote. Just imagine the little pieces we’d have torn our nation into had we succeeded. Perhaps we’re not a grown up enough population to run things ourselves. If you think otherwise then read any recent BTL thread and then decide.
One strategy for Scottish Independence would be to put on ruby slippers, click your heels three times and say sovereign nation.
Edinburgh kept its “schemies” well away from the centre in their bantustans on the fringe; but leith/silverknowes/granton/the north shore is being developed/gentrified at great pace. The flats are not being built for the locals and rents will be used to socio-economically-cleanse the “useless eaters” outwards.
Oddly, right next to the flashy centres of power, there is a sprawling council estate – dumbiedykes – I expect the city fathers have some cunning plans to remove all those people, it’s such prime land. By the time the councillors have finished it will all be gated community – Irvine Welsh’s books will become “historical novels”.
sam
Keen, Hudson, also Werner, maybe Austin Fitts are worth following. Also Max Keiser, if you can find his channel, for zany knockabout.
Hudson wrote some excellent books – “super imperialism” – details the scam of the US dollar system, which is cleverer than anything Britain dreamed up; it gets the rest of the world to pay for its militarism, to fund their own bondage, and manages to export its own economic problems onto others. This is why the BRICS countries want out of it, and why that eastern country came to prominence – this is the world pivot according to geopolitical theory (Mackinder, Grand Chessboard).
He also wrote a good one on ancient history – how debt in antiquity drove unrest and war.
Richard Murphy has a nice recent post on money creation; maybe he will explain how money derives its value when it is created out of thin air.
The deep danger, if indy ever happened, would be on day one, a bunch of wall st/city suits turn up – jp morgan (already here, glasgow), blackrock (edinburgh), goldmans sachs, etc, saying “this is how you set up your currency, central bank, stock market – we will HELP you … ”
– you need to listen to these guys, but not roll over for them; the current halfwits of the SNP would sell the jerseys, agree to everything and let Scotland be taken to the cleaners, again. You need to have diversity of opinion, people who can “spot the scam”. But you need to play it smart – kicking out the bankers completely, might get you killed (- people dying who cross the bankers has a long history, going back to Jesus himself – to many he was merely a “talented and charismatic young teacher” but when he threw the money changers out of the temple, this was shutting down all the scams – he was a marked man after that.)
The forex markets can wreck a country; speculators can push the value of your currency up and down like a yo-yo, but in the end your entire country is sold off to foreigners at firesale prices.
Point is, if you are asleep at the wheel, you can find post-colonial becomes (corporate, financial) neo-colonialism very quickly.
The ANC, beloved of western liberals, sold out their people before Mandela was freed; there was a secret meeting in zimbabwe where they got told to “drop the marxist shit” (this story came from the late, great, Pilger) – so the corporations, mining, land, was kept in the same hands, a black man got to be president, and a new black middle class created for party members only; SA is arguably worse than when the boers were in charge, and corrugated iron is a popular building material – a great place for carjackings and r4pes.
“meet the new boss, same as the old boss”
Confused @ 11.03
The ‘yah’ problem was there 30+ years ago when my son, from a Tyneside state school went to Edinburgh Uni. He and his pals of similar background found them to be affluent, loud and entitled. Coming from Tyneside, they’d never experienced this kind of behaviour before. It was a learning curve!
@Alf Baird
Upthread you stated that “Not only Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland perishing in this mindless imperial ‘last stand’, but the mother country itself – England – devoured by its own colonial greed.”.
Eire is also being heavily targeted by the globalists for a Kalergi style reshaping of its inhabitants. This is way beyond revenge for previous Western empires. As I have previously stated cultural genocide is still classed as a crime against humanity unless, it seems, it is carried out against nations made up of white European stock. We are living through, imo, a genocidal war of attrition which has been enabled by political correctness, shaming, cancel culture, just be kind and almost total control of all means of communication and information. All of which was set up by the administrative class of this ongoing genocide as a means of nipping any pushback in the bud until it is too late to stop via sheer numbers.
As I have previously stated I did not used to have opinions such as this until I spent many years amongst those who are carrying out the reshaping of the West behind the protective shields of academia, educational charity status, Non Profit, NGO etc. The nepotism, cronyism and political favouritism practiced would put the Masons to shame and it is all being done under the flags of egalitarianism and altruism.
Like yourself I developed a thick hide to deal with the attacks, sometimes physical in my case, carried out against me for not going along with ‘the message’.
BTW – the problem people had with the “yahs” was this : once they realised you were not “one of them” they did not want to know you.
– then they claimed victimhood when people started taking against them.
It’s not ethnic/racial it’s purely about behaviour.
Private education breeds tremendous (largely unwarranted) self confidence, which is grating, but it was this insular attitude that really pissed people off.
@Ruby
“Best just to give me a X Sam. Put me in ‘red boxers’! ?”
A big kiss? Then red boxers?
Already done – well, virtually done.
Smiley.
Ali Clark says on 8 January 2024 at 1:42 pm
“…and from the broken Mike to the broken record. So many posters, that supposedly support the same cause, backbiting, gouging and traducing each other. It somehow makes me glad we failed in our independence vote. Just imagine the little pieces we’d have torn our nation into had we succeeded. Perhaps we’re not a grown up enough population to run things ourselves. If you think otherwise then read any recent BTL thread and then decide.”
What a humungous load of excrement. What they are doing is a natural occurrence. Show me one single country on this planet of ours where every single one of its citizens agree with each other. Take a look at any election results, that’s evidence enough.
Arguing and bickering on a blog may not look attractive, and it certainly doesn’t get the hosts approval if the arguing becomes personal. I think we would all mostly agree on that. Arguments take place in every single country, every single day, all around the globe. Some arguments even escalate into war.
But what you can’t do is judge the majority of Scotland on the actions of an extreme minority (population-wise) on here. And then use that as any sort of barometer of how well we would do as an independent country. Jeeeezo! For goodness sake!
sam @ 1:13 pm
“people like Keen and Hudson” may be fine economists, but they have little conception of Scotland’s ‘condition’ or how to remedy it.
You are getting into the same misunderstanding as the likes of Tommy Sheppard and others on the Left who wrongly believe that ‘independence is about political or economic ideology, of socialism versus capitalism’ (Cesaire). It is not. Independence is about removing a colonial and hence an oppressive racist system.
In a colonial society the most urgent priority is that of ‘freeing the people’. First the people need ‘awakened from their colonial slumber’. For now they need only ‘the one doctrine: to act in such a way that the nation may exist’ (Fanon).
blockquote up there!
🙂 🙂 🙂 three smileys
A big kiss? Then red boxers?
Bold and italic above. See b and i tags.
Steady on! This isnae a dating site!
Can we start with a big hug?
What are you pronouns Sam?
Sam I am Samantha?
@Confused
Thanks for the comment.
Hudson does talk about Hammurabi and debt cancellation in the talk to which I linked upthread.
Anton Decadent.
If I may make a comment on your last post,
The tables would turn irrovocably for the people of Eire, Wales, Scotland and England, all of which are under the globalist target hammer at the moment if the Union between Scotland and England were to be discovered as False,
For the great Britain empire along with the many Colonies and all its globalist treaties are based on that one foundation..
Ensuring Scotland becomes independent from a fallacious Union since 1707 changes who owns what in land and sea,
It would change immigration laws as well.
It is obvious that removing one of the most important foundation stones that the British empire was built upon out of the equation would have a good but detrimental effect for globalist control.
Hence all the globalist and unionist diatribe and opposition to Scottish independence.
However it would not only benefit Scotland, but many other Countries like England, Eire, Wales, and other trapped Countries from the Colonist treaties and activities.
Anton Decadent @ 1:59 pm
“Eire is also being heavily targeted by the globalists for a Kalergi style reshaping of its inhabitants.”
Yes, appears to be the case. Which also goes to show how even an independent country can still succumb if its leadership disrespect the sovereign people and prioritise the culture and ‘values’ of an usurper.
@Confused
“Confused
Ignored says:
8 January, 2024 at 1:52 pm
Edinburgh kept its “schemies” well away from the centre in their bantustans on the fringe; but leith/silverknowes/granton/the north shore is being developed/gentrified at great pace. The flats are not being built for the locals and rents will be used to socio-economically-cleanse the “useless eaters” outwards.”
@Mike Hudson
“But Obama didn’t do that. He became a community organizer.”
And the professor said to me, “What is a community organizer?” And then he made it very clear. He works with the real estate reverence. As I said, he worked with the landlords to basically gentrify neighborhoods because that’s where the money is. You want to look at a neighborhood that its city’s been starving its social services, it’s been impoverishing it, all of this, and yet it’s centrally located. In that good location, if only it can get the people out of there, you’re going to make a lot of money. Well, you had to be conscious of that.”
Alf Baird.
Couple of brilliant comment further up the thread Alf, especially the one about the universities keep em coming. The usual suspect definitely don’t like them…good.
Bang on from Grouse Beater.
“No nation ever colonised another to subsidise it!”
https://nitter.net/Grouse_Beater/status/1744310434348380247#m
Sounds a bit like the current groups of people claiming victimhood.
A lot of claims of ‘racism’ is down to bad behaviour.
Basically people behave like utter prats and then start screaming ‘racism’ ‘transphobia’ ‘hate crime’ and all the rest.
Transphobia is new racism.
Working abroad where they speak a different language it’s impossible to tell a ‘yah’ from a ‘scheemie’
Without the ‘yah’ the status is lost.
It’s all about the accent.
Jacob Rees-Mogg could be easily mistaken for a ‘scheemie’ in France! 🙂
I’m off to look up the French for ‘yah’ and ‘scheemie’
I meant to add this to my previous comment from the same source.
“On Being Colonised
England has the right to impede a law or regulation passed by the Scottish Government if it thinks the law interferes with England’s freedoms, but Scots do not have the right to block laws imposed by Westminster if they restrict the freedoms of Scots”
Wake the F*ck up and ditch this union now.
TURABDIN
**The French educated Vietnamese, Algerians, Tunisians, Syrians in values that led to the demise of French colonialism.
The Brits taught their colonials to play cricket, act the snob and speak with odd accents.**
Other British traits include;
Start religious/culture wars amongst the natives.
The more killing they do between each other, the less the coloniser needs to do.
Batter them to Speak their new Queen’s English.
Appoint British overlords & bedazzle locals with shiny titles & baubles.
Asset strip the country beyond all recognition.
Steal priceless treasures & artifacts as the natives are too stupid to look after them.
Promise both sides the world.
Hold fake elections/Instal a puppet.
Fuck off & leave them to it when the region runs dry. Preferably in ruins.
Steal Doctors, nurses, professionals with the promise of sending some pocket money in Aid.
Greet like fuck at home when they find some are seeking asylum to their beloved mother country & are now fluent in the language they insisted on battering into them.
Send a distress signal to the Daily Fail. Hoards are coming..
Alf , pop over to the Guardian and read the article by one Liz Lloyd , I’d be interested in what you think.
????????????? ?????????? ??????
Prose-poem by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. English by Michael Glenny. Gaelic by Ruaraidh MacThòmais (Derick Thomson).
THE PUPPY
In our back yard a boy keeps his little dog Sharik chained up, a ball of fluff shackled since he was a puppy.
One day I took him some chicken bones that were still warm and smelt delicious. The boy had just let the poor dog off his lead to have a run round the yard. The snow there was deep and feathery; Sharik was bounding about like a hare, first on his hind legs, then on his front ones, from one corner of the yard to the other, back and forth, burying his muzzle in the snow.
He ran towards me, his coat all shaggy, jumped up at me, sniffed the bones — then off he went again, belly-deep in the snow.
I don’t need your bones, he said. Just give me my freedom.
(Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: Stories and Prose Poems. Translated by Michael Glenny – New York, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1971)
——————-
AN CUILEAN
Air a’ chlobhs againn
tha balach
aig a bheil abhag
air lomhainn,
car-a-mhuiltein cuilein
ach fo ghlais
bho bha e na ghlas-ghiullan.
An là bha seo
thug mi cnàmhan circe dha
’s iad fhathast blàth is sùghmhor.
Bha am balach
an dèidh a leigeil ma sgaoil,
anns a’ ghàrradh.
Sneachda domhainn mìn ann;
bha an cuilean
na leum man geàrr,
air a chasan deiridh,
air a chasan toisich,
am meadhon a’ ghàrraidh,
anns an oisean,
na bhreislich,
le shròin fodha anns an t-sneachda.
Thàinig e na ruith,
le chalg robach,
a’ leum thugam,
a’ snotraich nan cnàmhan —
’s a-mach à seo,
suas gu bhroinn anns an t-sneachda.
“Coma leam na seann chnàmhan sin,” ars esan,
“’S e saorsa tha dhìth ormsa”.
(BÀRDACHD NA ROINN-EÒRPA AN GÀIDHLIG:
European Poetry in Gaelic, GAIRM, 1990)
“Richard Murphy has a nice recent post on money creation; maybe he will explain how money derives its value when it is created out of thin air.”
It derives its value when the government requires its citizens to pay their taxes in the currency created by its central bank, no excuses accepted. That need forces everyone to acquire it and they then use that currency in all other transactions, since everyone else in the country will also need to acquire it. He and others have explained this on many occasions. It is all those transactions that happen with it that effectively provide the value.
Taxes force its use, and its use provides its value.
The key word here is supposedly
Did you notice I posted a fitba link earlier?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_Se7ng6XQ
I’m getting to know more & more about fitba everyday.
Thanks again for your post.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-longest-lie/#comment-2814994
Very informative read.
I don’t think football is ever considered ‘off topic’
You get ‘a free pass’ for posts about football.
What colour card in football for a ‘free pass’?
Mark Beggan
You’re sounding awfully like DasBlimp.
Neale Hanvey to bring back his Private Members Bill on Jan 16th.
I wonder how many SNP MPs will walk out or not support it this time around. I recall almost the entire SNP Westminster group walk out of the HoC when Alba’s Kenny MacAskill got up to speak, they werea disgrace then and an even bigger disgrace now.
“On January 16, I will re-introduce my Scotland (Self-Determination) Private Members’ Bill under the 10-minute rule. This is not a second reading – the bill remains unlikely to get one – but with the work Joanna Cherry KC MP has done identifying the conflict with Scots law in the UK Government’s Rwanda policy, it is the only game in town at Westminster with which a constitutional challenge could be accommodated.
I hope to see more SNP names on the face of the bill this time around.
It’s also promising that Joanna will use her own Private Members’ Bill slot to advance proposals for a legitimate separation of powers that would divide the role of the Lord Advocate into two separate jobs.
This is a significant, important, and necessary move that stands a real chance of making it on to the statute books. Kenny MacAskill and many others have been calling for this over the past few years so there should be no reason for it not to be embraced across the floor.
As Scottish nationalist MPs, our job is not to dot the Is and cross the Ts of every inhumane Tory policy. We are principally there to work collectively to effect a robust route to independence.
The deepest regret of my time in Westminster is the lack of courage and commitment from those who were entrusted with the responsibility to challenge the UK state head on.
Instead, we’ve had wasted years of watching pantomime proclamations in the chamber and cosying up to those same Tories in the corridors, bars and tearooms. To free us from Westminster, the Alba Party called for a Scotland United pro-independence pact. Sadly the SNP rejected this attempt to bring the independence movement together to instead go it alone.
Any election with 50%+1 support of a Scotland United ticket or pro-independence parties signed up to such a move should trigger a National Independence Convention representative of political and civic Scotland.”
On the SNP MPs walking out.
“ALBA have criticised the SNP’s “bitterly disappointing” decision to leave the House of Commons as one of their MPs began a speech about energy in Scotland.
Kenny MacAskill, a former Scottish justice secretary and SNP MP who defected to Alba in 2021, was to speak at Westminster about the Eastern Link undersea cable.
The £3.4 billion infrastructure project will enable the deployment of offshore wind energy in the North Sea, according to energy regulator Ofgem.
MacAskill was to praise the “sensible project” as “one that everyone should support”, before asking where the benefit lies for ordinary Scots.
“But where’s the windfall for Scotland as a nation from this natural bounty?” he asked. “Where’s the wealth that should flow along with the energy from this vital resource?
“Where’s the benefit for those communities, such as my own in East Lothian, which will be able to see the turbines on their hills and off their shores.
“Scotland is energy rich, yet Scots are fuel poor.”
However, as deputy speaker Nigel Evans introduced the Alba MP, the SNP’s frontbench team stood up and walked out of the Chamber.
Key figures such as SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford, depute leader Kirsten Oswald, and shadow chancellor Alison Thewliss were seen standing up together and leaving the House.
Alba criticised the move, with a party spokesperson calling it “bitterly disappointing”.
They said: “As Westminster embarks on its latest robbery of Scotland’s natural resources you would think that all Scottish MPs would have filled the benches to take part in the debate.
“It is bitterly disappointing that despite sitting through speech after speech by those on the Government benches, they chose to walk out instead of taking part in a debate that actually matters to Scotland.”
The genocide in Palestine supporter (Sir Keir Starmer’s) puppet branch boss in Scotland Anas Sarwar has given a speech in which he doesn’t know which powers should be devolved to Scotland, as this employee of English Labour (there is no such party as Scottish Labour it doesn’t exist, its not registered with the Electoral Commission) was spewing out his London bosses rhetoric, the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign held a demo just outside his venue railing at one of Labours MPs Michael Shanks.
Shanks was elected as MP for Rutherglen and Hamilton West in a by-election in October after voters opted to remove the former SNP MP Margaret Ferrier as their representative via a recall petition.MP Michael Shanks abstained on a Israel/Gaza ceasefire vote at Westminster.
Of course Sarwar’s boss Starmer backs the genocide/ethic cleansing in Palestine by the occupying Zionists forces.
That’s beautiful Fearghas.
I wish they hadn’t taken away my Gaelic readers when I was at school.
I didn’t get past b for bàta
and b for balach
Then it was all about d for dog.
At least I understood one word of the poem maybe a few more if it had been written phonetically.
I have a couple of questions:
1. What are all the ????????????? ?????????? ?????? about?
2. Are chicken bones not bad or dogs or am I getting them mixed up with cats?
‘Chicken bones’ maybe a euphemism for the propaganda that we are being fed. Definitely not good for us.
Confused 2:03
Spot on.
We see it everyday on parly TV.
Arrogant, entitled bores who act like Hyenas if there’s more than three of them together at the one time. Completely void of reading the room & in touch with the outside world.
Also agree about Edinburgh. It’s been completely taken over. Even the Fridge isn’t Scottish anymore. Locals priced out of their own events & property in it’s drive to replicate another London. The riff raff will be relocated & what should be beautiful tourist attractions are boarded up & fenced off to make way for £50 quid burger vans..oops, I meant food carts. LOL
@Geri,
I think you’ll find that Dasplimp sounds like me rather.
Under Nicola Sturgeon the SNP became the Performative Party IE large announcements but no real action.Lots of ego swelling conference pronouncements,IE not for profit energy company,backed up by no actual hard work to make it happen.The pandemic was perfect for Sturgeon as it as it allowed her to strut the media stage with barely any scrutiny.The moment such scrutiny appeared to be incoming she baled.What she left behind is an utter shambles much of which is still to be uncovered.
When the time comes to ask “What happened to Scottish Independence/” The answer is “Niciola Sturgeon”.
Breastplate; “ You and Hatuey were very much on the same side when it came to treating unvaccinated people worse than second class citizens…”
To be clear, I think I called for anti-vaxers (rather than the unvaccinated) to be sterilised and welded in their homes. I can’t exactly remember Andy’s position but I’d guess it lacked that sort of clarity.
On one hand, we had the whole medical profession including regulators, scientists, Government officials, and various other respected influencers, all telling us the vaccine was efficacious and safe; on the other, we had a bunch of internet bampots telling us Covid didn’t exist as they muttered on about microchip implants, population control, the matrix, and 5G.
I chose to believe the former over the latter. If that was a mistake, it’s because I should have chosen neither.
Lesson learned. I have repented and moved on. You should too.
Are you both German.
Guess what?
My fridge is German. It’s a Bosch.
Could be made in China! But the name definitely is German.
FYI Bosch is the german for ‘scheemie’
Hautey’s back!!!!
Hautey’s no bad. He’s welcome.
Stu must have released all the ‘PMT prisoners’ at New Year.
Maybe Scott will be next followed by Mist, Sensible Dave & what’s his name that posted loads of academic papers. You know the one that really got on Ellis’s nerves.
I noticed someone posted the word ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ further up the thread.
No longer edited to tractor? No more banned words?
Things are changing here on Wings.
Re « ???????? »
Posted text defaults to question marks if the host system can’t handle non-Roman fonts such as Cyrillic Russian (for ‘Puppy Poem by Solzhenitsyn’). But also Chinese etc. Unfortunately this factor does not show up until a comment is actually posted. But wiser now.
Republicofscotland @ 3:09 pm
“about the universities”
Aye RoS, no coincidence that Yousaf gave his speech today to the elites within one of the beating heart institutions of colonial-unionism, Glasgow University.
After he serves his stint holding the movement back he’ll maybe end up there with other ex political-agents in the department tasked with preparing the next generation of ‘charlatans and tricksters and dealers in gobbledygook’ to keep Scotland haud-doun.
1:
We must acknowledge that the nation of Scotland never voted to join the treaty of union,
And Englands parliament on their own site today by their admission state that Scotlands people did not vote for the union,
2:
Therefore there is no requirement for the “people of Scotland” to hold a referendum or election by any selective % majority to win back their independence from Westminster parliament.
3:
As Queen Anne during her recorded Coronation did not take the “Oath of Scotland” nor at any time in her life before her death actually become officially coronated as Queen of Scots in the separate kingdom of Scotland.
She did take the “Oath of England”.
4:
This leaves the “royal assent and its authority” on behalf of Scotlands side of the treaty of union very contentious, along with the Commissioners she chose for Scotland.
5:
Queen Anne dissolved the Scottish parliament in 1707 by Proclamation in England.
6:
Did the coronated queen Anne of England, France and Ireland have the Authority to Dissolve a parliament of Scotland at all.
7:
The house of Commons in the English parliament was dissolved at a later that the Scottish parliament.
However the “House of Lords” was never dissolved at all and is a continuation of the parliament of England.
Both the House of Commons in England ( reinstated) and the old Scottish parliament, (no longer existing) were dissolved……..But the House of Lords from the old parliament of England IS the Great-Brittish Westminster parliament of England at present.
The ( duel) parliament of England and one and the same Great-Britain parliament made a treaty with Ireland in 1800.
8:
The old parliament of Scotland was not involved with the treaty with Ireland. Having been dissolved by Queen Anne of England, France and Ireland under the Crown of England at that time.
The Great- Britain bank is of course the duel Bank of England, Much the same as the parliament of Great-Britain is also the duel parliament of England.
Geri,
I too thought that “Confused” showed a lot of wisdom in his comment.
@Ruby,
Everything from fridges to covid is made in China.
Republic
**but with the work Joanna Cherry KC MP has done identifying the conflict with Scots law in the UK Government’s Rwanda policy, it is the only game in town at Westminster with which a constitutional challenge could be accommodated.**
Much as I respect Joanna – her time would be better spent actually looking into the law regarding Scotlands treaty & fck saving everyone else in England from making another arse of themselves globally.
She did the same with Brexshit & the English parliament.
She wasn’t elected to fck around playing in & at Westminster. It was to use the exit. She’s had ten years & seems to only concern herself with Unionist shite.
Another reason why SNP is deid. They become far too distracted with unionist pish.
An independent Scotland will know women don’t have penises, know where Europ is & we’ll not be rushing to book flights for asylum seekers either. Problem solved.
She’s on record she’ll not stand on a united ticket.
Good to know a vote for Joanna is a vote to keep her in WM to bother herself with English concerns.
We pay for them to be a third wheel.
Another day, another Ministry. Following quickly on the heels of the appointment of Mike “the toad” Russell, to his nice little earner, Humza announces a new post of Minister for Industrial Policy. Which new toad has been tee’d up for this post I wonder, for ‘services rendered’
Next week, a Ministry of Silly Walks, and a Minister of How to Take The Piss.
Lorna is favourite with the bookies for both jobs.
Will the SNP return the missing chip from the stone of destiny???
Have they the balls to keep it, or will they bow the knee??
@ Benhope 11.49pm I think the tories and the media are NOW making a big production about this now to divert attention away from the covid millions scam theft , they are fussing about the fennel woman as the po ceo when part of the time the po ceo was a guy called crozier but he is never mentioned maybe because he is now ceo of itv who made the Mr Bates programme
It would be interesting to know his part in the Horizon debacle and also what was the computer companies involvement and outcome
Hatuey,
Let’s be clear, people who expressed concern over the safety and efficacy of the Covid miracle cure injection were labelled anti-vaxxers. Andy Ellis was crystal clear on his thinking of the flat-earther anti-vaxxers.
I bear no animosity towards you or the vast majority of people who believed what they were being spoon fed.
I would also like to point out that the medical community and the scientific community were not as one, the censorship of alternative views only gave that impression.
Even now there is censorship, this issue will be around for some time yet as the excess deaths that were warned of mount up but the cheerleaders especially, should take ownership of what has now proved to be utter pish.
@ Geri 5.18pm welcome to the few who can see through fake indy supporters , even when Joanna Cherry was speaking out against the GRR if you look at her statements it was not about protecting the rights of women and girls it was first and foremost about protecting the rights of lesbains which I have no problem with but she was lauded as the great women protector when she was prioritising herself, also I have pointed out numerous times that she was more interested in saving the proroguing of parliament from bozo when she should have been challenging the COR for Scots
New year’s resolutions if I were in parly..
Scotland desperately needs Salvo, Liberation & a Scottish convention ASAP.
Go back to the tried & true method of the various pressure groups that brought about the Scottish Constitutional Convention who in turn brought about devolution & Holyrood.
We’ve moved on. The parliament isn’t fit for purpose & has morphed into a mini WM just as those who wanted complete separation at the time predicted it would.
Sending Muppets to WM is a complete & utter waste of everyone’s time. They only become self serving serfs caught up in distractions & baubles until they’ve completely morphed into a Yoon at Strangers bar or sunk into a rent boys boudoir.
It’s time indy went back to basics & bypassed the politicians altogether. A PERMANENT convention on Scots law, the treaty & spotting shite early from WM that breeches any of it.
2nd course of action is to clear out Holyrood of grifters & relatives. Change the parliament rules on unseating the First Minister, take oath to Scots on entry, ditch the “Murdo” pass – 2 elections & yer out & ditch mitigation altogether.
3rd
Westminster – once elected you remove yourself from Westminster immediately. Conduct your constituency from the actual constituency. No need to see the sights – book a holiday if that’s yer gig.
If yoons want unionists – live with Unionist policies. It’s what they voted for. Give it to them – full throttle. That’ll end the best of both worlds that’s caused nothing but mayhem.
People have plenty ideas for Indy. It was killed stone dead by Sturgeon when she saw fit to dismantle the various think tanks & Yes groups. Proof even as far back as then that she was a plant.
“Much as I respect Joanna – her time would be better spent actually looking into the law regarding Scotlands treaty & fck saving everyone else in England from making another arse of themselves globally.
She did the same with Brexshit & the English parliament.
She wasn’t elected to fck around playing in & at Westminster. It was to use the exit. She’s had ten years & seems to only concern herself with Unionist shite.”
Geri.
I agree 100% with you, Cherry has also been a big disappointment on the indyfront, but for some reason or another she still seems to command more respect from the indy masses who know what the SNP really are. now.
According to the UK gov
“GDP is the size of the economy at a point in time
GDP measures the total value of all of the goods made, and services provided, during a specific period of time.
Goods are things such as your new washing machine, or the milk that you buy. Services include the haircut from your hairdresser, or repairs done by your plumber.
It’s only final goods and services that are sold to you and me that matter for GDP though. So if some tyres roll off a production line and are sold to a car manufacturer, the value of the tyres isn’t included in GDP, it is reflected in the value of the car.
The amount you pay, or the market value of that good or service, is what’s important as these are added together to get GDP.”
Mike Hudson points out –
“As we’ve said before on this show, when banks increase their late fees to credit card holders, and late fees are now over a trillion dollars, more than credit card companies get in interest, all that is added to GDP.
When American real estate prices have been going up in the last few months of the year, the homeowners’ imputed value of their homes, if they were to rent their homes to themselves, has been going up, increasing GDP. That’s 7% of GDP.
So what we call GDP here is really a rentier economy that is polarizing between the finance, insurance, and real estate (FIRE) sector and the rest of the economy.”
Robberies also increase GDP as items are bought to replace those stolen.
Flooding contributes to GDP also because items and property need to be replaced.
“So, the GDP is a travesty of any measure of welfare or size.”
Twathater
Yes, it didn’t go unnoticed at the time.
She was more concerned with the unlawful prorogation of parliament than she was at Mayhem changing the rules of Holyrood & cross party vote of no consent.
Same with Brexshit. More concerned about Englands stupidity & Act of self harm while completely ignoring the mandate on Sturgeons desk that made it none of our concern.
“Taxation on land and property. Almost all economists would agree, first, that taxes on residential property/land are “good” taxes (they are unlikely to distort decisions or discourage business or enterprise much; property can’t be moved abroad to avoid them; and, in the UK, much of the wealth in land or property simply reflects windfall gains to relatively richer and older people); and second, that the current system is both inefficient (stamp duty) and regressive (council tax). So the scope for a more economically efficient and more progressive system, based on a progressive land or property tax, is considerable – but attempts to move in this direction have frequently encountered political difficulties.”
https://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/rich-and-poor
A snippet of our FM’s speech today in the Britnat UoG, Yousaf is on record saying (during the SNP leadership hustings) that “If Nicola Sturgeon couldn’t obtain Scottish independence no one can.”
Yousaf like Kate Forbes thinks the only way for Scotland to gain independence is for Westminster to issue an an S30 first, then a referendum with Westminster’s consent.
Yousaf is a fraud, a charlatan, as is Forbes, he’s only going down this indy route to win your vote at the next GE, sadly the current SNP is THE ROADBLOCK to Scottish independence ALL of them must be removed from office whether it be at Westminster or Holyrood.
Vote alba Join Alba.
Down with the union.
“THE First Minister has detailed plans for a Ministry for Industrial Policy in an independent Scotland during a major speech.
Humza Yousaf set out the Scottish Government’s plan for industrial strategy and the economy in the event of Scottish independence during an address at Glasgow University on Monday.
The FM described how this new government department would be responsible for designing and delivering new policy areas that would be gained through independence from Westminster.”
@Ali Calrk 1.42 pm
I’m not sure that’s fair Ali. Stoker @ 2.28pm is undoubtedly right. The internet isn’t representative of the voting public, and BTL comments here certainly aren’t representative and have become increasingly less so. If you look at most issues generating a lot more heat than light on here, they virtually without exception involve a small coterie of fringe extremists punting a world view shared by a minority – and often a tiny minority – of the general public.
Doesn’t matter if it’s vaccines, nativism, “Scotland as colony”, country 404, the interminable Treaties of Union/sovereign Scots discussion, WEF/NATO/EU….in fact you name it and BTL on WoS will seldom disappoint in terms of turning up the sophomoric fringe pitching their snake oil.
It doesn’t matter to them of course that their worldviews have next to zero traction amongst the general population and even less in terms of actual political support. If all you have is a hammer…..
https://caltonjock.com/2022/05/04/convicted-fraudster-rauf-said-he-did-not-know-sturgeon-and-he-had-not-asked-her-to-intervene-on-his-behalf-with-a-letter-to-the-court-she-should-have-resigned/comment-page-1/
Why did Nicola Sturgeon write a letter to a judge pleading not to send a convicted fraudster Abdul Rauf to prison in 2010
Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray said: “If the facts of the case are as they appear and Nicola Sturgeon made such an appalling error of judgement she must resign. Last week she was selling access to raise funds for the SNP. Now she is prepared to give a character reference for a convicted fraudster.”
@sam 6.37pm
I wonder if anyone has ever done any detailed research on how a replacement land/prperty scheme would work in practice in the UK – or indeed another country? I can see the arguments for reform, but isn’t the hard part of selling it to the public going to be that they’re not going to support any new system that suddenly results in big increases on the amount they currently pay, are they?
Wouldn’t it all have to be part of some overarching reform so that in the end you wouldn’t find yourself paying a lot more in some form of flat property or land tax than you currently do in Council Tax and stamp duty, but also the amount government got from taxation increased in a way that wasn’t regressive and inefficient?
Breaking news. Joanna Cherry is pushing through a private members bill to separate the lord Advocates twin role in government and head of Scottish legal system.
No one ever write Joanna off. Give me hope Joanna. She’s incredible. People say. Why didn’t she leave the SNP. Because she’s our woman on the inside. That’s why.
It’s a game of chess. It’s not won with the first move. I have so much respect for her. I have never doubted her integrity.
God bless you Joanna. Give me hope Joanna till the morning comes.
Superb developments tonight. Superb.
@ Geri says:8 January, 2024 at 5:18 pm
the work Joanna Cherry KC MP has done identifying the conflict with Scots law in the UK Government’s Rwanda policy
Woo hoo, let’s stick it to the English by thwarting their attempts to get illegal immigration under control.
Woo hoo, let’s shaft the hated English Tories by forcing them to spend hundreds of millions of taxpayer’s hard earned on thwarted legal challenges, aborted offshoring attempts and eye-wateringly expensive food and board for the law-breaking grifters.
Way to go, let’s subsidise and underpin WM’s money hosing from the asset stripping of Scotland’s wealth.
Yippee, let’s sabotage our efforts to build a democratic mandate for Indy by causing ever increasing, No-voting white flight from south of the border onto our own electoral registers.
Result! Let’s gurn and greet about how these on-the-move English retired incomers are pricing us out of our own wee bits hill and glen.
TBQH, you couldn’t make this shit up.
Step aside, thrift, there’s a new stereotypical Scottish character trait in town:
The total inability to ever think things through.
ALF BAIRD 11:16
A subject that requires finesse. No culture is perfect but some cultures in certain respects are rather more so than others. It was foreign influence that helped my ethnic/religious community in Iraq sadly that influence did not last. Iraq was never a colony merely a mandated territory.
Colonization may broaden the mind and sense of identity. Both may make the colonizer ill at ease.
Many liberators were not fluent in the language of the country they sought to liberate, but that did not stop the process. Nehru’s Hindi was halting, Ben Bella of Algeria spoke French much better than Algerian Arabic.
One size rule does not fit all occasions.
Not much support for The Worst Minister’s word salad garnished in snake oil which he served up today.
@ Breastplate says:8 January, 2024 at 5:50 pm
I bear no animosity towards you or the vast majority of people who believed what they were being spoon fed
Maybes you should then.
It’s not so many years since a significant number of Scots protested and stirred up so much trouble over having to pay more for the services they enjoyed (the Poll Tax) that they got the legislation annulled and an institutional government memory of such strength built that the Poll Tax concept can never be resurrected.
Fast forwards a few years, and we mostly kowtowed to being locked up indefinitely, having our rights traduced, our mental and physical health damaged, and costs far exceeding the Poll Tax laid on every one of us, yet plenty were cheering to the rafters while this happened.
As a result the lockdown legislation has been largely retained on the statute books, ready to be reintroduced when a suitable pretext next arises, and all by governments confident that we lack the spirit or will to utter a squeak of protest.
So yes, I bear a lot of animosity.
David Hannah.
Try this one on for size.
https://caltonjock.com/2023/12/12/surfing-and-gathering-information-at-great-risk-beneath-the-sometimes-murky-waters-of-humza-yousafs-political-career-part-1/
The link is also for those still wavering whether or not to vote for the current SNP.
I’ve just seen an amusing snippet from Mole Man of the ‘Scottish’ Greens- ‘(his movement) brought to the table that argument that there were limits to growth’. There certainly were in his case.
@Andy Ellis
“I wonder if anyone has ever done any detailed research on how a replacement land/prperty scheme would work in practice in the UK – or indeed another country?”
The answer is Yes.
https://michaelkumhof.weebly.com/land-taxation1.html
Pertinent to the piece above. Needs to be UK wide. Can’t see Scotland, lacking independence, being allowed or able to do this
Ruby
Ignored
says: at 4:14 pm
Mark Beggan
Ignored
says:
8 January, 2024 at 3:55 pm
“My fridge is German. It’s a Bosch.
FYI Bosch is the german for ‘scheemie’”
—————————————-
FYI That’s the first time I’ve EVER heard, that Bosch means scheemie in German. (Shakes head…)
@Turabdin 7.30pm
Doubtless our new Lallans speaking masters post indy will make due allowances for all the anglophones post independence.
Alf and his mates could run language classes for the masses like Ataturk did after the fall of the Ottomans.
Dorothy Devine @ 3:19 pm
“pop over to the Guardian and read the article by one Liz Lloyd”
Looks like a another puff piece by Lloyd, who now works as a policy consultant for Flint Global (run by ex FCO head) ‘specialising on Scotland’, pleading for Scots to lend their votes to Labour. Wonder who is paying for her ‘advice’ now?
Not much different from the recent Stephen Noon puff pieces and I note he is now a ‘research associate’ at the ever expanding Centre for Public Policy (a colonialist set-up?) at Glasgow University, as well as studying for a PhD at Edinburgh Uni on something which looks like ‘Love your Colonizer’.
All the usual suspects ‘find a bone to gnaw on’ in a colonial system. Telling the natives to vote for a colonial party (aye, that includes the SNP) is a sure giveaway.
Happy New Year to all in here even the bad faith lot and those who get a wage from talking shite on Indy blogs. I must admit it is no huge chore to scroll past the comments that are of little interest though it is harder to find those that are worth a read. The cunning plan seems to be to bore everyone to death with circular arguments and to try to upset those posters who have something of interest to say and lets face it the usual suspects are world class bores. The daft thing is that the endless tripe posted here will not change the output of the blog and so will achieve nothing . We seem to have a lot of old friends either released from the naughty step or ending their self imposed flounce off to the Ginger Dogger site so welcome one and all . I hope my wee pal the Broad Scot is well and just of on a campaign in his little tank saving humanity or snarling on another blog. So seasons greetings to you all even Sir John of Main.
Main.
They aren’t illegal.
If you don’t like the UK being open to immigration then don’t sign up to international agreements. It’s very simple really.
As ever, Britnats want their cake & eat it. Play with the big boys on the international stage & sign up – then immediately start greetin’ like fck they’re special & the rules don’t apply to them, only to everyone else.
It is NOT the responsibility of other countries to fix England’s borders.
It is also NOT the responsibility of a refugee to abandon his chosen destination in favour of the first country he arrives at. Those aren’t the rules. The refugee gets to choose & don’t look to France, the Brits burned that bridge when they refused to pay for the Jungle at Calais.
There’s that fcking obnoxious entitlement shining through again. Britnats aren’t *special* well, certainly not in the way they think they are. Special only in relation to buses.
It’s against international law to deport refugees to a foreign land. The great colonisers maybe shouldn’t have beaten them to learn English or snatched their relatives. Suck it up, buttercup.
Take yer Ukip shite elsewhere.w
TURABDIN @ 7:30 pm
“Nehru’s Hindi was halting, Ben Bella of Algeria spoke French much better than Algerian Arabic.”
The colonized has little choice but to ‘mimic the colonizer’ (Memmi) if they wish to advance socio-economically or to become part of the privileged bourgeoisie, or a scholar, even, in a colonial society.
I doubt Craig Murray would have become a British ambassador had he spoke like Michael Marra or Billy Kay, the latter baith eloquent Scots language speakers and writers. Such are ‘the tortures of colonial bilingualism’ (Fanon).
It is only upon liberation that the native finds that ‘the colonizer’s tongue burns his lips’, and that ‘in recovering his autonomous and separate destiny, he immediately goes back to his own tongue’ (Memmi).
Rwanda is yanking the Brit nats chain. Fair play to them.
£240 million smackaroonies paid already & now the Brits are told they can only take a few hundred.
Not the thousands the right wingers fantasised about. LMAO!
I bet the Daily Fail went into meltdown.
*A few hundred* LOL!
International laws & international human rights decide.
Not obnoxious racists. When that plan falls through you can bet the Brit establishment/Tories will jettison Sunak, Patel, Cleverly etc. The ethnic ‘helpers’ they elevated & used to push their racist policies.
@ Geri says:8 January, 2024 at 8:05 pm
Hows about you learn to think? Maybes add one duck to another duck to get two ducks in a row?
I’ll spell it out in monosyllables for you.
It’s getting harder to muster a majority Yes vote for Indy in Scotland because of inwards migration from England.
Most of that English inwards migration is white, middle class, older, dyed-in-the-wool No-voters.
Most of that cohort is white flight from England’s own inward migration.
Ergo, by simple logic, getting practical restrictions placed on UK immigration aids and abets the Scottish Indy cause.
By all means you carry your torch high for the open borders, “come all ye here” hellhole that you ardently desire for your own unfathomable personal reasons (!) – it’s still mostly a free country – but you really shouldn’t carpet bag on the Indy cause when it’s so bleeding obvious just how much harm your fantasy is doing to the delivery of Indy.
Oh, and soz, I was lying about the monosyllables.
Summary
Land tax increases UK GDP by 40% while lowering income tax to zero.
https://michaelkumhof.weebly.com/land-taxation1.html
So who’s fridge was made in East Kilbride.
Scotland will have its own border controls soon enough.
It’s a nonsense England has control on another country’s population.
Ending mitigation will end the migration North too. They can look elsewhere for a free nursing home & child minder.
Twathater 7th Jan 6:02
Wasn’t he also a No voter in 2014 or am I thinking of someone else?
@Andy Ellis says:8 January, 2024 at 7:53 pm
Doubtless our new Lallans speaking masters post indy will make due allowances for all the anglophones post independence
Maybes.
I noted once or twice that Alf intended employment in iScotland to be impossible unless the employee was proficient in written and spoken Scots. However, the last time I challenged him on that he backtracked, or repented, and said it would be limited to public sector employment only.
I know too much about the couple of decades in post-1917 Russtiland to view a similar proposal for Scotland with any equanimity. The pursuit of ideological purity starved millions in those years.
But it’s all moot. None of our current batch of New Scots, already fast-tracked into public sector employment, speak Scots.
And none of pretendy FM Yousaf’s proposed one million New Scots will either.
Bottom line, while we bicker on here, we are being replaced, and it matters not whether we choose to speak Scots or RP English.
Are you telling me I got it wrong?
That’s the last time I’ll take German lessons from a Frenchman.
Anyway these Bosches may or may not be ‘scheemies’ but they make bloody good fridges.
It’s all Bosch in my kitchen freezer, fridge, dishwasher, washing machine.
@Alf Baird says:8 January, 2024 at 8:32 pm
I doubt Craig Murray would have become a British ambassador had he spoke like Michael Marra or Billy Kay, the latter baith eloquent Scots language speakers and writers
No shit, Sherlock!
How’s it going with the effort to get Scots added to the list of official EU languages?
I’m thinking that if it doesn’t get added, iScotland is going to have to appoint proficient English speakers to do our negotiating for us, when the fait accompli of our EU membership is delivered by pretendy FM Yousaf and his regime.
Or do you believe the EU is going to instigate a crash hiring program for Scots speakers?
Here in Scotland, we are in the superbly enviable position where virtually all of our population is already proficient in what is the world’s de facto common language – English – and you want to throw all that away in pursuit of ideological purity.
Madness.
@sam says:8 January, 2024 at 8:44 pm
Land tax increases UK GDP by 40% while lowering income tax to zero
Course it does, Sam, course it does. You forgot NI, but that will almost certainly be zero too.
For tomorrow, can you show how energy will be too cheap to meter. Petrol also.
Here’s the thing though, Sam. Imagine just for a second, that what you claim is true. Nobody’s interested.
Remember, we’re Scots, Sovereign Scots, many of us. Showing us the money is pointless.
That’s what I am always told.
You should take a crash course on what Michael Sheen says in his many excellent speeches about language & identity.
Only the posh man on the telly was allowed to work in television. Born with marbles & a silver spoon in their gob to talk posh to the masses. Any new recruits where put through classes to lose their mother tongue.
Same applies to schools
Universities.
Media.
Government.
Sport
Then they get rid of local news. Only what’s happening in London takes top priority. This breaks communities & local involvement.
Scots slang was battered out of people in schools.
I dunno what makes you ignorant fools mock other people’s language, correct their English or batter them to *speak right*
It’s a britnat thing you lot continue to lose yer shit over. You’ll have to ask yerself why that is…there’s a want aboot ye..
Pay attention Mark!
Geri told you earlier that the Fridge isn’t Scottish anymore.
Scotland is the Fridge well at least it is at this time of year. But you know Scotland isn’t Scottish anymore.
Were fridges ever made in East Kilbride?
There is a 24/7 regular on here who lives in East Kilbride. Maybe his hoose is the fridge and that’s why he spends all day in the library hogging their only computer.
Ruby
They used to make Westfield guitars in East Kilbride.
Any good for keeping the G&T cold?
If you are interested in a Scottish fridge there is one for sale on Ebay. It’s quite pricey and the size of a double wardrobe.
Says it was made in Scotland in the 40’s
http://tinyurl.com/4yff88zx
Did East Kilbride exist in the 40’s?
Who would have guessed that the ‘fridge topic’ could be so interesting.
How did William Cullen invent the refrigerator?
It was in Edinburgh, in 1756, that he gave the first documented public demonstration of artificial refrigeration. Cullen used a pump to create a partial vacuum over a container of diethyl ether, which then boiled, absorbing heat from the surroundings.
@ Geri says:8 January, 2024 at 9:20 pm
Only the posh man on the telly was allowed to work in television
OFFS Geri, open yer een.
Spend an evening watching British telly and then tell me who’s the only ones allowed on these days.
The adverts are much the same. What are you, blind?
You’re just harping back to yet more ancient guff.
The fridge was invented in Scotland.
Scotsman William Cullen, who was born way back in 1710, is the man we have to thank for the invention of the refrigerator. Its introduction fundamentally changed the way people around the world were able to store and transport food.
NEWS FLASH!!!!
Humza the Great Protector of Sovereign Scots bans Evil Colonizer Dogs.
In a stunning move by the First Minister the Imperialist empire builders have been blasted. Mr Humza later said “the deliberate infiltration of MI5 cloned Unionist hounds will not happen on my watch”.
@John Main
“Here’s the thing though, Sam. Imagine just for a second, that what you claim is true. Nobody’s interested.”
It’s not me who is claiming that. It is people who are vastly superior to you in all sorts of ways.
“Nobody’s interested” – just means you aren’t interested.You haven’t bothered to watch and listen before spouting dross.
The source of the material is National Institute of Economic and Social Research.
As usual – you are full of shit.
“Here in Scotland, we are in the superbly enviable position where virtually all of our population is already proficient in what is the world’s de facto common language – English – and you want to throw all that away in pursuit of ideological purity.”
Main/Ellis.
Purity?
Germans speak German, the French speak French, the Italians speak Italian and so forth, they all have English as a second language, so why not Scots, our languages such as Auld Scots and Gaelic are part of our history and culture, if you want to destroy a peoples history and culture first you have to destroy their languages.
Purity has nothing to do with it our languages are part of who we are, English can be taught as a second language just as other nations teach their children to speak it after they’ve learned their own language first.
http://www.historyofrefrigeration.com/refrigeration-invention/william-cullen/#google_vignette
William Cullen Biography – Inventor of Artificial Refrigeration
The Great Satan’s (US) EU’s and the UK’s persistent support for the geocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine by the occupying military force known as Zionist Israel is, if not uniting bringing closer together countries in West Asia, at least cooperating (such as Iran and Iraq, Sunni and Shia etc) that wouldn’t normally see eye to eye.
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/gaza-destroys-western-divide-and-rule-narratives
Ruby
William Cullen born in Hamilton.
The fridge hasn’t changed much since 1756. A very interesting and popular man. A credit to his generation and his nation.
Scots have invented most things yet yoons think we’re too stupid to run an independent country.
We invented the cash machine too. Imagine that! Able to “show Main the money” day or night. At home or abroad.
Re my previous comment, another nation puts the Great Satan (US) EU and UK to shame.
“Bolivian Ministry of Foreign Affairs became the first Latin American country to announce endorsing South Africa’s efforts in prosecuting Israel before the ICJ.
Titled “in support of the application submitted by South Africa to the International Court of Justice”, the statement affirmed the Latin American country’s stance against Israel’s brutal war on Gaza.”
Watch this great question put to the Tory government in the HoC with the genocide in mind. Note the tepid and evasive response.
https://nitter.net/declassifiedUK/status/1744394008745345237#m
I knew ‘Scots Invented the Modern World’ but I didn’t know about the fridge until today.
I have to thank Geri & her typo for that discovery.
I know she meant fringe and not fridge but I found it funny.
Just as well I didn’t really give her the X otherwise I would be none the wiser about the fridge being Scottish.
It’s amazing that a fridge made in Scotland in the 40s is still working and on sale on Ebay for £2k.
It would be interesting to find out more about this fridge.
Where & when was it made. Was it after the war? Anyone got any info.
Re giving folk the X who quote folk I am ignoring.
See this post by ROS
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-broken-mike/#comment-2815530
I was tricking into reading the first paragraph.
I most definitely do not want to read that stuff. It just makes me angry and I feel the ‘swearing parrot’ coming to the fore.
Remember the parrot that kept saying
He’s a cunt! He’s a cunt! He’s a cunt!
No! No! No! We don’t want any of that anymore even if he is a cunt.
FFFFF!
That’s ROS definitely got the X.
What the heck is wrong with people not doing blockquotes where others can see clearly who they are quoting.
Joanna Cherry is a product of a convent school and the Scottish legal system. I do not see much prospect of constitutional heresy coming from that particular cv.
Tricked not tricking.
Yes I was tricked by ROS
The UK is a lap dog.
It’ll make noises but it’s America they take orders from & America is dumb as fck at World Police but seem to excel at the Colonial Empire part Duex shit.
There will come a breaking point & a response. They’ve colonised over 159 countries with their warring shit & taken a huge chunk of change & some free real estate with it.
Why I’m not a fan of NATO. Can you imagine asking this lot to fck off out yer country?
**The United States, for instance, has more than 750 military bases across 80 countries, and has deployed nearly 175,000 soldiers in 159 countries of the world, which provides them a key edge over foes and the capability to remain within striking distance if a conflict was to break out**
Risk, American style.
We serve for honor, truth, God..
*Bang! Bang yer deid!*
Oops, sorry! I thought you were a baddie. Oh well, we’ll chalk that one up as *friendly* fire.
Here’s a medal saying yer definitely not a dunce.
Biden is now funding sex reassignment surgery if you sign up to the military. Imagine the Middle East looking on in horror as 1,000 Mulvaneys run towards them in high heels & handbags.. LOL
John Main @ 9:12 pm
“do you believe the EU is going to instigate a crash hiring program for Scots speakers?”
The Council of Europe want the Scots language taught tae Scots fowk. They say language is a human right. Deprived of their language ‘a people’ dinnae ken wha thay are. They end up with a ‘false identity’, i.e. ‘British’, which is a cultural illusion.
twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1743303954493063548
Unholy Shite. BTL here is truly hellacious.
Jack Kerouac –
Missing a kick
at the icebox door
It closed anyway.
Breab air iomrall
ri doras a’ frids.
Dhùin e co-dhiù.
Ruby
Graf Midgehunter at 7:51 pm
“FYI That’s the first time I’ve EVER heard, that Bosch means scheemie in German. (Shakes head…)”
Are you telling me I got it wrong?
That’s the last time I’ll take German lessons from a Frenchman.
It’s all Bosch in my kitchen freezer, fridge, dishwasher, washing machine.
————————–
Get Scotland its independence back then we’ll be able to get a brand new McBosch factory built.. 🙂
@ Geri 8th Jan 8.57pm TBH I wouldn’t be surprised, him and his pal like to make out they’re indy supporters hahaha but all you get out of them is Scotland and Scots are shite
Again TBQH I am going to stop even responding to anything they say as it is evident they thrive on argument and division,they say the same things over and over it is just repeated pish,as Robert Hughes said upthread,it is proven that trolls hate to be ignored so that is what they will get IGNORED
We need a Nationalist Government in charge again. I’m glad Joanna Cherry is bringing forward her private members bill.
Maybe David Davis can give Scotland Parliamentary Privilege. So our MSPs can read out redacted documents of the Sturgeon era. Free from legal jail sentences.
We need that to happen. Get David Davis on the phone. He’d be absolutely held in the highest regard for decades to come if he increased the integrity of the Scottish Parliament.
Let’s hope for a good year yet for Scottish politics.
Its coming yet. For a’ that!
Kenny MacAskill. Justice minister. Former justice minister. Calling Neale Hanvey. David Davis. We need a cross party private members bill to enhance the powers of the Scottish parliament. Let’s ask for parliamentary privilege.
There’s two legal systems in the UK!! Remember! The legal system needs you. To uphold it’s integrity. We need our MSPs to be afforded parliamentary privelege. It would be one of the greatest things to happen to our country.
God bless you all. And Scotland. Make it happen boys.
In the off chance Tommy Sheppard reads Wings BTL… away and take a fuck to yourself Tommy.
As an aside personally I am looking forward to seeing the next absurd excuse the twat in the hat George Galloway comes out with for not supporting independence once the ‘nazi supporting’ SNP is no longer the primary vehicle for achieving it.
This is the twat that went into the Big Brother house with the communist manifesto as his only allowed book. They killed tens of millions of people but that is cool with George but one guy in the 30’s who wanted independence… oh no that is terrible George, and obviously it means the hopes and aspirations of millions seeking independence nearly a hundred years later are irreversibly tainted.
Meanwhile communism is cool. Cunt.
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast
Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold
John Main drips.
Ellis croaks,
And in my little windows box,
The genuine poster hings their heid
They do indeed,
If dafties could but ‘heid their hing’
I’d have a word to rhyme wi’ ("Quizmaster" - Ed)
Makes you think eh, southerners moving to Scotland can vote for a westminster unionist party, but a Scot moving to england (like myself) and the rev, cannot vote for a Scottish independence party.you better hurry up and end this union Scotland or soon you will just be known as ‘scotlandshire north britain’.
Is this ‘Scottish Hero’ a NO or a YES that is the question?
Any reason why you can do proper links Mac?
What does ‘hellacious’ mean?
Anything to do with fridges, bad breath or scheemies?
Oneliner @ 11:32 pm
“Joanna Cherry is a product of a convent school and the Scottish legal system. I do not see much prospect of constitutional heresy coming from that particular cv.”
Yes, she and the SNP comprise what is known as the ‘legal tendency’ in an independence movement; according to postcolonial theory, national liberation depends on the movements ‘illegal tendency’ (Fanon), i.e. a people taking their rightful struggle for self-determination beyond the brick wall confines of the colonizers legal system and a pensioned-off political class.
This is why the UN, its Decolonization Committee C-24, and the ICJ exist – to enable ‘haud-doun’ peoples to break free from colonial domination.
Bobbyp – well the SNP could stand in England, nothing stopping them but the trouble is they would get hardly any votes because why would an English resident vote for a party that had no interest in their electorate and literally wanted to turn their back on them for good (worth noting this is how the SNP are seen down south – irrelevant to people’s everyday lives apart from making some fun, performative noise in Westminster)? Maybe the SNP should stand in Corby, ha ha.
More seriously, is there any sensible way a Scottish nationalist party could make a case for English votes in England? About the only thing I can think of is to say how welcome they would be in a wonderful new Scotland that would be so much better than Tory or Labour England. So touting for votes for more English migration north but not of unionists.
Mhira Black fell out the ugly tree and skelped Joanna Cherry on the way down. Explains why they both lick the gravy.
ALF BAIRD @8:32pm
I recognize most of the theoretical elements re colonialism as valid but practicality is a hard master. My native language is a variety of Syriac, an ancient tongue once the lingua franca of the Levant, Mesopotamia, Persia and all the way into central China, now it struggles. Few outside the specialist academic world know anything of it.
My first language is Iraqi and Standard Arabic and i have some English, better fluency in French and a reasonable ability in German with basic reading in Russian and Japanese, all alien tongues. My family is polyglot for reasons of survival.
No close relatives now live in Iraq.
The theories are wonderful in academic context but for the powerless they stay theories.
That does not lessen their explanatory/existential/ psychological significance as to the «why».
Unfortunately, «liberation» is brutally by custom out of the gun barrel.
This is a must watch.
twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1740105536249499791
There can be no mistake that our beloved FM Humza Yousaf knows that Scottish independence is the ONLY way forward yet we know he has no intentions of even trying to achieve this.
Yousaf is trying to fool the indy masses into voting for the SNP at the GE in the hope of retaining as many SNP MPs at possible, to further keep the status quo in place.
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
Down with the Union.
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,uk-is-poor-man-of-northwest-europe-says-humza-yousaf
“The UK is the “poor man of north-west Europe” but Scotland could “chart a different, better course” with independence, the first minister has said.
Making a major speech on the economy to start the new year, Humza Yousaf said “damaging economic trends” have been “hard-wired” into the UK and Scotland.
He said a change of UK government after the general election would do little to improve this, accusing Keir Starmer of failing a present a “real economic alternative”.”
Yousaf added.
” “For Scotland there is a choice. We can accept our place as part of this low-productivity, high-inequality economic model – or we can decide to chart a different, better course.
“That means taking on the powers we need to achieve the higher, more normal living standards enjoyed by comparable independent countries.”
What a charlatan Yousaf is, he point blankly said that we need an (S30 permission from Westminster at the SNP Hustings) just to hold an indyref, and that if Sturgeon couldn’t obtain Scottish independence no one could.
Indy voters MUST NOT fall for this mans lies and deceitful actions.
Alf Baird 8th January 8.32pm:
It is only upon liberation that the native finds that ‘the colonizer’s tongue burns his lips’, and that ‘in recovering his autonomous and separate destiny, he immediately goes back to his own tongue’ (Memmi).
Well, here is a suggestion for the growing cohort of “professors” from the world of politics appearing in Scots universities despite a lack of academic qualifications. With Burns day fast approaching, what better time to build on existing work by embarking on some research into the Scots language and literary tradition? There is a wealth of material just waiting to be studied and passed on to future generations. For an independence-minded new professor, this would surely be an obvious choice of study in preparation for our liberation.
The following extracg could be a starting point – it’s from an essay written by Hugh MacDiarmid while he lived in Shetland in the 1930s. The essay is entitled “English Ascendancy in British Literature”.
MacDiarmid writes:
“Burns knew what he was doing when he reverted from eighteenth century English to a species of synthetic Scots and was abundantly justified on the result. He was not contributing to English literature, but to a clearly defined and quite independent tradition of Scottish poetry hailing from the days of Dunbar and the other great fifteenth century ‘makars’- the golden age of Scottish poetry when the English impulse seemed to have gone sterile and Scotland, not England, was apparently destined to produce the great poetry of the United Kingdom.
“To ask why this promise was not redeemed and why English, a far less concentrated and expressive language, became the medium of such an incomparably greater succession of poets, involves deep questions of the relationship of literature to economic, political and other considerations… but at the moment it is more germane to ask if the potentialities of the Scottish literary tradition can yet be realised? There are signs that they may be. The problem of the British Isles is the problem of English Ascendancy”…
MacDiarmid continues:
…”One may well speculate what the results to-day would have been if this great literature, instead of being virtually proscribed by the ‘English Ascendancy’ policy and practically forgotten, had been concurrently maintained with the development of ‘English Literature'”…
…”No other people in the world have ever preferred an alien literature to their own, and practically excluded the latter from the curricula of their schools and universities…”
Much food for thought.
This coming election will be very difficult for Scots. Caught between a rock and a hard place many may vote for none of the above. In a sense it’s come full circle for us. Do we continue with the Gay Nazis or do we go back like the prodigal voter to mother Labour. Or do we get some Gazza street weapons and take to
the streets. One thing is for sure Independence will not go away.
Mac , you do wonder why the UK media doesn’t leap up and stop lies gaining traction do you not???
Alf , much my feeling thanks for taking the time.
Southernbystander,
“More seriously, is there any sensible way a Scottish nationalist party could make a case for English votes in England?”
If the English believe that they subsidise Scotland (they do believe that), then surely it’s logical to simply cut Scotland loose for the financial benefit of England, no?
Job done, problem solved then on to ejecting the next scrounger in the queue, where are you wales?
Wales
@TURABDIN
“Unfortunately, «liberation» is brutally by custom out of the gun barrel.”
“If you look – who were the Jewish prophets, in Judea, and in the Jewish Bible, they all came from pretty good families. Most revolutions are led by the upper middle-class people. In Greece and Rome, they were led by members of the aristocracy, but not the rich members, sort of like the poorer members of the aristocracy. And in Rome, when Rome made Christianity the religion, it was mainly the wives of the rich people who converted them all. So yes, it’s the wealthy people, ironically enough, who’ve led the revolutions. Neither Lenin nor Trotsky were members of the working class.”
Mike Hudson
TURABDIN @ 10:00 am
“the theoretical elements re colonialism as valid but practicality is a hard master”
Loss of ‘a peoples’ language is followed by loss of their culture, and by loss of national identity/national consciousness, and of course is usually combined with loss of sovereignty; hence ‘the nation’ no longer exists, it becomes at best a distant memory, a few worn out traditions.
An interesting question may be, what is your national or ethnic identity? If that is impossible to answer it may mean your people/nation disnae exist. In other words the objective of colonialism is fulfilled, i.e. the people/nation has perished.
Breastplate – I think that is the perception yes. Trouble is the SNP would have to prove it was the case which would not be easy and surely go against their whole argument about the ‘subsidy’?
I have no view as the whole question seems quite complex and tbh not that important. This would be the other big problem – people really do not care much about it as they do not see the amount of money as significant, or even see it as money well spent. The English are not one venal mass but the problem with listening to the loudest voices is that is who you will most likely hear, a very small ‘get to fuck’ minority crowd, amplified by a thousand watts by the media.
Getting back to Broken Mike let us just remember that Russell is a man, who in writing a book with an Canadian billionaire chum Denis Macleod recommended in his book Grasping the Thistle that all hospitals and clinics be privatised and people issued with vouchers to buy health care.
More right wing than the most right wing Tory this is the man now being slotted in to lead the Land Commission.
With Scotland already having the highest proportion of private estate ownership by billionaires, many of whom are off shore tax haven residents, it doesn’t take a genius to realize why this man is being slotted into position.
The guy is positively feudal in act and deed.
And with appointments like Russell has just been given it doesn’t take a genius to realize why the SNP have done absolutely zilch in land reform.
And then of course there is Bernie Higgins appointed as economic adviser the Nicola Sturgeon. And Higgin’s background?
Bernard Franklin Higgins, known as Benny Higgins, is a Scottish banker who has held several high-profile roles in the banking industry.
He was the former chief executive officer (CEO) of Tesco Bank and held senior roles at Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS1.
In 2019, Benny Higgins became the chairman of the Duke of Buccleuch’s estates company, managing the extensive portfolio of property and land owned by the family.
The Duke of Buccleuch’s estates company is involved in estates, property, and energy.
Again this appointment reveals the utterly right wing establishment credentials of the SNP.
And folks wonder why no land reform, or no state energy company and the sell off of land and sea rights for relative buttons to international corporates.
Southernbystander,
I’m not sure I understand why people would need proof to believe something they already regard as fact.
People believe what is comfortably in line with their existing world view, actuality is seldom a concern.
I agree with what you say on the amplification of preferred narrative.
@Sam
Been thinking on those lines
Lenin and Trotsky were Middle class
Stalin, Hitler and Napoleon weren’t middle class.The upper classes start revolutions but it’s the working class who finish them.
@sam, The Frankfurt School was also bankrolled by the upper middle class, it is almost as if there is a pattern of Communism/Socialism being middle class fronts to justify the socioeconomic position of some and dupe others befuddled by idealism.
A few months ago on here someone posted about the John Lennon song Imagine, a song which has the lyric “Imagine there’s no countries” on a blog in support of Scottish independence.
For 2024 I predict that the trillionaire altruists will set up NGO’s called Millionaires Against Poverty (MAP’s) and Billionaires Against Poverty (BAP’s).
See ex-Labour alpha Betty Lloyd has fucked off back home to England to buy and sell Scottish secrets.
https://flint-global.com/team-members/liz-lloyd/
Willie.
You only have to read the names of the people who signed up to be in the treaty of Union, it is a list of rich gentry on both sides.
Mind you it is those particular rich family signitures that are still in the treaty of Unionto this day.
Not the Scots.
Bobbyp said;
“Makes you think eh, southerners moving to Scotland can vote for a westminster unionist party, but a Scot moving to england (like myself) and the rev, cannot vote for a Scottish independence party. you better hurry up and end this union Scotland or soon you will just be known as ‘scotlandshire north britain’.”
Yet another aspect of Scotland’s ‘democratic deficit’!
Here’s a couple more;
Only England’s MPs can form a government of the UK on their own. Scotland’s MPs can never do that because they cannot ever achieve an absolute seat majority on their own. And because of that inability, Scotland’s MPs also find themselves far less able to bring forward Bills in the UK’s parliament, since by far the easiest and most reliable way to bring forward a Bill and have it pass into law is to BE the party of government.
And all this is on top of the fact that Scotland’s MPs cannot meaningfully defend or promote the interests of their half of the Union, while England’s MPs are under no such restriction, because England’s establishment believes and insists that its MPs are actually entitled to ‘outvote’ Scotland’s MPs on any matter, just because they have more MPs.
That entitlement is bogus;
The UK was founded by two equally sovereign Kingdoms, not one, and not by 558 (now 650) non-sovereign constituencies, and it is the two kingdoms’ authorities that Westminster wields in its governance of the two territories of the Union. Being sovereign, neither of those authorities outranks the other, thus neither body of their MP representatives is entitled to impose their majority decisions over the other, and neither body is obliged to submit to any majority of the other.
Despite that clear constitutional basis, no vote in the House of Commons has ever taken place on the basis of the two sovereign partner kingdoms that negotiated, agreed, signed, and empowered the Treaty by ratifying it; every vote has been taken on the basis of (currently) 650 non-sovereign undistinguished constituencies that did none of those things.
Despite this, and despite that one body of MPs outnumbers the other ten times over, the HoCs’ ‘joint’ decisions are made by a ludicrously inept ‘democratic’ simple flat majority vote, almost guaranteeing that every outcome will be the one that England’s MPs chose. It is inept because the two bodies of MPs do not constitute a single homogenous group precisely because they were put into the Unions’ new parliament by the Treaty specifically to represent the two very different sovereign Principals of the Treaty.
Scotland’s MPs represent precisely one half of the Union’s dual sovereign authorities, with England’s MPs representing the other half. Their actual numbers are irrelevant to this equation. Their numbers were not set in the Treaty on any democratic basis anyway, they were calculated on the basis of their respective capacities to raise tax revenues!
It is therefore a clear nonsense that the MPs of one kingdom should be required to submit to the majority votes of the MPs of an entirely different kingdom, on any basis, let alone on an irrelevant numeric basis that has nothing to do with sovereignty, constitutions, or any sensible democratic principles.
Mark Beggan @ 11:32 am
“The upper classes start revolutions but it’s the working class who finish them.”
Not quite. It is the native intellectual, generally culturally assimilated, who, ‘returning to his own culture’, provides the rationale and understanding of the colonial condition for the people, giving the lumpen proletariat the momentum for liberation (Fanon).
Upper class elites are part of the colonial cultural hegemony, the bourgeoisie and elements of the state-funded proletariat its cheerleaders and ‘functionaries’.
Sorry not sorry to be pedantic but since we are talking about languages I think it’s important to point out that any factory built in iScotland should be named MacBosch.
Mac means son of in Scottish Gaelic and I believe Mc is Irish Gaelic for the same.
Probably best if it wasn’t named anything ‘Scottish’.
There is something about labelling things using Scottish words that I find pejorative.
I know or at least I think I know that wasn’t your intention.
For example Unionists use ‘tartan’ a lot in a pejorative manner.
I suppose that’s all part of the colinisers plan to reduce Scotland to a joke.
I would suggest the fridge factory be called ‘The William Cullen factory’.
ALF BAIRD 11.03
My people had a homeland in Northern Mesopotamia known in English as Assyria.
We speak a form of Aramaic called Syriac, which exists in an eastern and western form.
The language was once wide spread in the region and considerable «classical» learning was translated into it during the Christian era. Muslim scholarship owes much to the Syriacs who translated this material into Arabic.
Needless to say Arabization and Ottoman rule took their toll on the culture. Kurdish settlement also depleted our numbers. The US invasion of Iraq was a further catastrophe reducing the population to est. 250k.
We have no country to speak of. We live in a diaspora. Our identity is kept alive through religion where the Syriac language is used liturgically in Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches.
By comparison Scotland sits at the head of the game.
One day Lennon was grumbling about the cost of running his growing empire and Neil Aspinall reminded him of the lyrics: “Imagine no possessions, John.”
“ It’s just a bloody song!” was Lennon’s retort.
The Frankfurt School and Tavistock Institute have long been associated with public manipulation.
Theodore Adorno, with his belief that music was a driver in social control, was associated with both
YouTube – The Creation of The Beatles John Coleman on Adorno & Tavistock
Many of the top LÁ bands of the 60s had their records ghosted by The Wrecking Crew.
It’s remarkable that Adorno, Trotsky, Stalin, Hitler, and Freud were all in Vienna in 1913.
Lenin, Jung and Einstein just over the border in Switzerland.
Shapers of the modern world?
I am 100% in favour of Alf’s Scots language campaign even if Scots isn’t my mother tongue. I find it interesting & would like to at least greet people in their own language.
When I was at school as I said earlier they took away my Gaelic reader. My ‘leabhar leughaidh’ was
snatched away when I had only reached B in the alphabet.
Obviously I had to Google the Gaelic for book ‘cos L comes a long way after B.
We didn’t get any Gaelic poems or literature. We got Gaelic songs to learn (for the mod & ceilidhs) but we didn’t know what they meant. We were singing in a ‘foreign’ language. I suppose a lot of opera singers have to do that.
At this time of year we always got Burns poems to learn and we were required to know the meaning of the words same with Shakespeare.
It was only thanks to local Gaelic speakers that I knew I was singing:
I am tired gathering bracken all day long.
From that song I learned the Gaelic word for bracken ‘raineach’
So when I saw the name ‘Rannock Moor’ I knew that it was a moor with loads of bracken.
I also learned to say ‘I am tired’
No idea how to write it down but I can sing it.
Scots is a bit easier than Gaelic. It’s a beautiful language.
I’m all for learning that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWzXTebD5X0
Alf, re your insistence on the importance of Scotland raising up its old tongue – I ask you which one? Or more than one? The second question would be if you’ve done any surveys to find out how many would be in favour?
For those thinking that persuading English voters to ditch Scotland, I can see the appeal for you but nobody is going to offer it to the English public to put it to the test.
Partial fancy?
Would that be crush in English?
‘Partial fancy’ is so much better than crush!
@ Willie
“Willie
Ignored says:…The Duke of Buccleuch’s estates company is involved in estates, property, and energy.”
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n10/ian-jack/why-did-we-not-know
The New Enclosure: The Appropriation of Public Land in Neoliberal Britain
by Brett Christophers.
Verso, 394 pp., £20, November 2018, 978 1 78663 158 9
“Land registers are supposed to identify the ownership of all public and private land, but as recently as 2005 less than half the total acreage of England and Wales had been officially registered. By 2015, the area ostensibly covered had grown to 85 per cent, but true ownership often remained hidden. In the first dozen years of the century around 95,000 companies were established in tax havens such as the British Virgin Islands to shield their owners’ names from public knowledge and minimise their tax bills; according to the Panama Papers leak in 2016, British land and property worth more than £170 billion was owned in this way. (In 1980, non-UK companies owned only a tenth of office space in the City of London; thirty years later they owned more than half.) Scotland has separate legislation and gives greater prominence to the land question, but there, too, ownership can be far from obvious. For example, who owns the 217,000 acres of the Buccleuch estates, with their 576 properties, 20,000 sheep and 32,000 hens? In 2010, research by the land campaigner Andy Wightman discovered that it was a company owned by four Edinburgh lawyers with a total paid-up share value of £4 rather than the duke of Buccleuch himself, who was reported to be Scotland’s largest landowner until he was replaced in the record books last year by the Danish billionaire Anders Holch Povlsen, whose several estates and 221,000 Scottish acres make him the largest landowner in the UK.”
Blake;
“nobody is going to offer it to the English public to put it to the test.”
Aye because the Westminster thieves have seen the balance books. Fuck off.
Willie;
“In 2019, Benny Higgins became the chairman of the Duke of Buccleuch’s estates company…”
Aye, Willie, that’ll be the ‘Duke of Buccleuch’ who’s auld nazi supporting grandfaither was at Adolf Hitler’s 50th birthday party. (Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose?).
Bobbyp.
The union of two Countries Scotland and England 1707 does not Exist except for the usual spiel from those whom want it to be real, Unionist.
The Scottish parliament was dissolved prior to the Great-Britain parliament. And has no Members.
The old parliament of England was (not dissolved) due to the continuation of the House of Lords.
The parliament of England has the duel title,
Parliament of England-parliament and parliament of Great-Britain, they are one and the same.
The parliament of Englands Great Britain is the sole occupant of the 1707 treaty of Union.
TURABDIN @ 1:28 pm
“By comparison Scotland sits at the head of the game.”
Not necessarily. The Scottish diaspora vastly exceeds (perhaps tenfold) the number of Scots who remain in Scotland, the latter now a dwindling number in thair ain laund (maybe 4 million today?). Scottish emigration per capita was the largest in western Europe for a nation of our size:
“The Scottish disapora has been estimated by the Scottish Government to be between 28 and 40 million people worldwide. Other estimates have ranged as high as 80 million.”
https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-diaspora-diaspora-strategy-insights-lessons-ireland/pages/6/
Regarding language, the dominance of English on the internet is for the non’anglophone a constant reminder of linguistic colonialism. The universe is perceived through the anglo-american prism. Things may get distorted as a consequence. Even the internet translation modules appear to work through the medium of American English first before you get your, often ridiculous, result.
The italians have a saying that the the translator may be a deceive.
The internet, its news and social media would appear to have something in common.
Vive la différence!
I would say the more languages the better. People in the UK are so reliant on English you would be hard pushed to find someone who can even say ‘Bonjour’
It was fun when Barnier proposed Brexit negotiations be done in French. LOL
This question about why English voters choose to subsidise Scotland has been asked many times and never answered.
I’ll ask again perhaps you have the answer Pat.
What are the gains financial and otherwise for England of having Scotland in their Union?
Are the English electorate being taken for mugs?
Ruby 1.50pm
You would like some of Hugh MacDiarmid’s poetry and also essays, some of which are remarkably relevant today.
How would Scottish land ownership be re- defined if it correct according to historical records that the parliament of Great- Britain is actually one and the same parliament of England with the parliament of Scotland being dissolved from the treaty of union in 1707.
Who’s authority granted large tracts of Scotland to be sold outside the kingdom of Scotland, the land belongs to the Sovereignty of the people and its nation.
And due to the Crown being the crown of England not of Scotland the Crown Estates would be contentious in Scotland.
This land register in Scotland became part of the laws of Englands Britain early on after the fallacious treaty,
The people of Scotland did not vote to join the union, and the Scottish parliament was dissolved,
Queen Anne was not coronated as queen of Scots,
The land of Scotland belongs to the Scots under those circumstances.
ALF BAIRD 2:08pm
You at least have a country to call your own. My extended family live in other people’s.
Any where that will have us, Sweden, France, Germany, Russia, US, Japan, Qatar, we call «home», at least until the politics changes.
Great to improvement of language and reasoning skills though.
I have an Iraqi passport, a little like a British one in its psychological dissonance.
I probably would SteepBrae. I like a load of different things.
Is his poetry set to music?
I’m a big fan of that. Love Joan Manuel Serrat singing the poems of Antonio Machado. Do I understand ever word? No but it’s a great way to learn new vocabulary.
Great song, great beat, great lyrics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx5ENAFTLZg
But we don’t that is the whole point of this website & the BTL discussions here.
Could we get our own country back first and then we can perhaps move on to helping you out?
@Ruby
“Is his poetry set to music?”
Tentavively I suggest you listen to Luke kelly sing “On Raglan Road”.
The song is a poem by the Irish poet Patrick Kavanagh. Raglan Road is a posh part of Dublin.
I know a little of the background to the song.
hope you listen and like.
Ruby 2.48pm
Is his (Hugh MacDiarmid’s) poetry set to music?
Yes, some of it was, by Hawick-born composer Francis George Scott who taught at Jordanhill College.
I’ve just been listening to the lyrics of ‘Aye fond kiss’ again and I think ‘partial fancy’ could be a lot more profound than a crush.
Up until now I just thought the song was about two lovers parting after a holiday romance or something similar. Sad but you move on.
Now I think it’s a lot more profound than that and that Nancy died.
I’m shedding ‘deep in heart-wrung tears’ for Nancy & the one she left behind.
So sad!
What a brilliant poem.
Beautiful song great tune.
I’ve got a big long list of things to learn about:
1. Fitba
2. Burns
3. Patrick Kavanagh ‘On Raglan Road’
4. Francis George Scott singing Hugh MacDiarmid’s poetry
and the rest.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. As you can see I’ve put them on my list.
I need a Stepford wife so I can get on with all the interesting things on my list.
Sam @ 3.30.
You gave me happy memories of the days when I often went to see the Dubliners when you mentioned Luke Kelly and Raglan Road. Luke had the most fantastic voice and could bring tears to your eyes with songs such as The Jail of Cluain Meala.
By way of contrast, Ronnie Drew’s voice has been described as sounding like coke being crushed under a door.
I think Kavanagh was over 40 when he became mesmerised by ‘Hilda’ who was over ten years younger than him. Luke first recorded it in 1971.
I hope Ruby (and others) follow your advice and listen to it – and other Dubliner recordings.
Ruby;
You could do worse than listen to famous Dundee Yesser Sheena Wellington’s albums ‘Kerelaw’, ‘Clearsong’ and ‘Strong Women’ for some auld Scots songs (inc. some Burns’) – and her voice is incredible.
(‘There Was a Lad’ takes some beating IMHO).
TURABDIN
Ignored says:
9 January, 2024 at 2:39 pm
ALF BAIRD 2:08pm
You at least have a country to call your own. My extended family live in other people’s.
Any where that will have us, Sweden, France, Germany, Russia, US, Japan, Qatar, we call «home», at least until the politics changes.
Great to improvement of language and reasoning skills though.
I have an Iraqi passport, a little like a British one in its psychological dissonance.’
Since the Union so offends you, I cannot resist asking why you came here, faced with such a multitude of options-and which ‘politics’ do you require to change before you cease to regard the UK as ‘home’ ?
Ruby 9 January, 2024 at 2:23 pm
“I would say the more languages the better. People in the UK are so reliant on English you would be hard pushed to find someone who can even say ‘Bonjour’”
That is a good theory but not very popular. You might get Scotland to back the introduction of one language but not two. Only today there was an article about the rapid drop in those studying German in the UK. I thought that studying Latin was interesting but kids hated it. With modern translation apps, languages are more likely to merge than keep their purity. The entertainment industry has a large effect.
“This question about why English voters choose to subsidise Scotland has been asked many times and never answered.”
I think that it’s a similar claim to that of the Scots that they subsidise England – lazy, nationalistic assumptions. It’s odd that neither side stumps up the figures. I suspect that the answer is so complicated that nobody knows and that it varies year to year. It’s not just a matter of taxation on goods and services produced (from oil to beef to ships to banking) but all the costs (DVLA, state borrowing, trade deals, passport systems, etc, etc, etc).
Of course to the English, both for and against Scottish independence the figures aren’t that important. To the Scottish it could be key to staying or going. My only gripe is that there is little or no attempt to arrive at a figure.
What could the SNP stand for in England?
Independence. “Take back control” & all the other shit slogans they used.
They won’t tho. The SNP see themselves as new Scottish Labour & parasites in WM won’t give up feeding off their docile host in a hurry. How would they survive in the world? Money laundering? They have nothing of their own. Jellied eels & Jam won’t buy many weapons ya know..
England wanted to *take back control* but that only seems to have applied to skin colour.
England should be independent. For the simple reason they don’t want it. That tells you something right there. They feed off the other three to keep afloat.
The Union was only a trade Union. The English have imagined that meant total control of resources & territory & we need their permission to leave. LOL
SNP are finished. The next party to rise will use a mandate & this time it’ll be in a timely fashion. The SNP should’ve been voted out in 2017. Scotland really needs to stop giving charlatans chance after chance & start demanding results.
Holyrood is the same. I mentioned yesterday the voting needs to change. Murdo Tory Frazer has been in Holyrood since the fcking doors opened 22 years ago yet NO ONE votes for him. That gravy bus needs to end. They’re just taking up space. Achievement’s = zero.
Cut the dead wood in 2024/26.
James Che 9 January, 2024 at 2:35 pm
“The people of Scotland did not vote to join the union”
The people of neither country had democracy as we now know it. It wasn’t in their remit at the time. However in 2014 they voted to remain in the union.
Because Scotland is forbidden from recording records & England refuses to hand over her true accounts.
So they magic up a bunch of estimates instead. Do some hocus pokus & decide, after they’ve went shopping for what England wants, that we end up owing them money.
The last recorded entry was 1921 & Scotland was subsiding England at an alarming cost. ZERO was found to be spent in Scotland. So they stopped recording it after that.
How can you produce a wage slip when the boss won’t show it to you? LOL!
Pat Blake.
Yoon bollocks.
& Scots voted yes.
RUK voted for us to remain.
*Not going round the houses again with another Yoon*
Here’s fool of the week, Mhairi Black..
**She has also recently spoken to the BBC of her struggles with imposter syndrome, the term given for a psychological state where people doubt their skills and accomplishments and have a fear of being seen as a fraud.**
Naw, Pal. You’re the real deal. You ARE an imposter. You’ve done absolutely hee-haw in 10 years. You all have the same affliction. I’m sure the £300k helped relieve her psychological condition when she bothered to show up.
@JohnIm 1.46pm
At the time of writing Imagine John Lennon and Yoko Ono apparently had a temperature controlled room to store their fur coats in. There is all kinds of stuff like them donating to the defence fund of someone who had gone from being a thug for Peter Rachman to a black nationalist but when it was discovered that this was a front for a drug dealing operation several people including the daughter of an MP were hacked to death with machetes for kicking up a disillusioned stink.
Re coincidence theories, all kinds of things come up, I mean Jimmy Saville and Joey Ramone, ever see them in the same room together?
@ sam says:8 January, 2024 at 10:15 pm
It is people who are vastly superior to you in all sorts of ways
Remind me again, Sam, who are the Untermensch and who the Ubermensch?
I’d hate to get it wrong, just in case getting it wrong is all you need to classify me for extermination.
Nice place the Rev’s got here. Hoaching with classy people.
Even though David Cameron wasn’t a MP and had his credibility damaged by the Greensill scandal England’s PM Rishi Sunak made him a peer to allow him to become Foreign Secretary.
Here EVEL announcer (19th of Sept 2014) doesn’t know whether the occupying military oppress regime in Palestine that calls itself Zionist/Israel is committing war crimes, yet the same man had no problems voicing his concerns years earlier that Assad WAS committing war crimes in Syria, even though that claimed turned out to be false.
“DAVID Cameron squirmed as he was confronted with his own words describing how Israel refused to restore Gaza’s water supplies – as he insisted the country had not committed war crimes he insisted he had not been given any legal advice the country was committing war crimes.
pressed the former prime minister further, asking: “You’ve never had a piece of paper put in front of you by a Foreign Office lawyer that says that Israel is in breach of international humanitarian commitments, under international humanitarian law?”
Lord Cameron replied: “Look, the reason for not answering this question, I can’t recall every single bit of paper that’s put in front of me. I look at everything.
“I mean, of course, there are lots of things that have happened, where you think ‘Well, surely that is, that was something that shouldn’t have happened’.”
“So I don’t want to answer that question.”
Why oh why do Scots allow thisEnglishman from a foreign country to represent them abroad, and he does represent us because we allow him and the foreign country of England to do so via the Home Office.
Down with the union.
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
@ Pat Blake says:9 January, 2024 at 1:52 pm
Alf, re your insistence on the importance of Scotland raising up its old tongue
I have asked Alf a number of times to look at setting up a thread restricted to Scots only posts.
As a speaker of some Scots myself, I would be innarested in learning more.
It hasn’t happened. I don’t think it will happen. I am suspecting that both Alf and myself know why – naebody is that much bovvered.
Seems to me that we could even engage with the usual suspects by teaching them oor ain language’s equivalents of feck, winker, cant, sheeite, bullocks, fiscast, agricultural motive unit, untermensch, schemie, nitza, etc. Keep it relevant in other words.
And no doubt plenty of others. Could be great fun, and what else are the usual suspects doing anyway?
@ Alf Baird says:9 January, 2024 at 2:08 pm
“The Scottish disapora has been estimated by the Scottish Government to be between 28 and 40 million people worldwide. Other estimates have ranged as high as 80 million.”
Woohoo, Scotland # 1 world coloniser! We rock!
Haud oan. Don’t tell me, some big English barstewards made us do it and then they ran away.
Still, all the regulars on here telling us how England has it coming for empire and colonisation, yet always simply assuming Scotland will ride out the storm unscathed. Soz to be the breaker of bad news folks …
At least the next time I see the grinning physog of oor ain pretendy FM telling me what to do and where he’s going to be spraying my money, I’ll be getting an insight into the workings of inter-generational karma.
What’s Scots for “karma”? What’s Scots for “bitch”?
Kate Forbes has a point here, but sadly she is part of the obstruction and not the solution which is independence.
Forbes like Yousaf wants to go down the S30 route, she like Yousaf wants to ask the permission of a foreign country to allow people to choose whether or not to dissolve a treaty which isn’t binding, if it were immutable we wouldn’t have held an indyref in 2014.
“MSPs are doing a “disservice” to the people of Scotland by watching devolution be eroded by the UK Government post-Brexit, a former minister has said.
In a debate on how devolution is changing post-EU, Kate Forbes insisted it was vital the Parliament unified to ensure stronger legal safeguards for devolution, which she added had come under “incredible strain” since the UK left the bloc.
The debate followed on from a report produced by the Scottish Parliament’s Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee last October. The report received cross-party backing and raised concerns about how the regulatory environment within the UK had changed since Brexit”
When will Scots realise that we don’t need a foreign country’s (England) permission to have a vote on dissolving the treaty.
Not only that, things will not get any better until independence is gained and we make ALL our own decision to try and create a more progressive country, for example, our infrastructure which is appalling for such a rich country badly needs upgrading, what can you expect when you allow a foreign country’s government to steal your wealth whilst claiming it subsidises you.
Remember WE don’t need England, but England (Westminster) needs Scotland’s wealth, this wealth belongs to you and your children/granchildren and their children, the longer we allow this smoke and mirrors union to remain active the more the English parliament and it bodies will steal from you and your families pockets.
There are NO benefits for Scotland to being in this union, none whatsoever no Britnat/Coloniser/House Jock can counter that sentence, for there’s nothing Scotland can’t do on its own (albeit start wars or be a permanent member of the P5 which we don’t want to be anyway) as an independent nation.
The bottom line is keep all our wealth for our own nation via independence, or remain in this union and watch everything go downhill, its our choice.
@ John Main
John Main
Ignored says:
9 January, 2024 at 6:24 pm
@ sam says:8 January, 2024 at 10:15 pm
It is people who are vastly superior to you in all sorts of ways
Remind me again, Sam, who are the Untermensch and who the Ubermensch?”
Certainly I’ll remind you.
You’re an ignorant, loutish person of limited intelligence whose interventions here are largely prejudice and bile. Not much that you say is based on evidence or research.
Your intention is mostly to cause offence, wound or wind people up.
you are a bully.
So you could be in either camp.
I’m trying not to do repeats so the only answer I can give you is.
Whatever!
You have been Xed. Cheerio.
@ Ruby at 5.05
Nancy didn’t die (not then, anyway) – she emigrated to be with her husband.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ae_Fond_Kiss (Her relationship with Burns was platonic, apparently – ha!)
John Main @ 6:45 pm
“As a speaker of some Scots myself, I would be innarested in learning more.”
Than fou yer wellies:
Doun-Hauden Poem
Bourdieu telt us, oor cultur’s the ki
We lairn oor cultur as bairns, on grannie’s knee
Anely tae forfaut thon in colonial schuils
Creenge’s aw aboot! Tho A’m nae fuil
Langage is the verra foond o cultur
Oor braw Scots langage comes fae the hert, no yon gutter
We’re makkit Englis tae get on, Anglo bools in yer mooth
Yet ma mither tongue is nivver fae sooth
Croods o Scots cast oot thair ain laund
Supplantit bi yon Anglophone meritocratic baund
Thay fowk cruin the union pairty sang
Mak shuir o Scots leid’s deith stang
Frantz Fanon wad hiv nae doot
Scotlan’s a donsie wee colonie, its taes nar oot
Juist lyke India, Kenya, Ireland or Algeria
Colonialists wrack native cultur, makkit gae heeligoleerie
Naitional consciousness isnae nationalism
Scots appen yer een, kest oot thon tirranies
Englan’s Anschluss, A Scotlan dashelt
A Union wi nae veto? Scots dae whit yer telt!
Estaiblishment Scotlan, A joub mankit cesspit
Thay haud doon oor fowk, maks loass o speerit
Dicht claen Scotlan’s maukit unionist slump
Kest oot thon British yoke, thay can tak a lang hyke
Thon Union Treaty’s a muckle fankle
Soveranety aye haundit tae a bunkle
Maks Scotlan a wee pouerless colonie
‘Leeberty’ fowk cry, lat’s awa fi sic joukerie
Scots cultur gies us belangin, an oor ain naitional identitie
Denee’d o yer leid, Scots are rind duffie
Colonised fowk aye quaisten thair wirth
Ethnic doun-hauden maks Scots aflocht
Sel-determination’s oor richt, on Scots Claim therrs nae dout
Tho bewaur tratours, deceiverie an clout
An ivery day mair Anglophones muve in aw the whill
Stowenlins Scottis soveranety, if ye staun by – tak it thay wull
Apart from the treacherous SNP, we have other very serious problems to dissolving this union.
One aspect is this.
One major problem is that Scotland has no major outlet media wise all the media which is mostly foreign and foreign owned spews out anti-Scottish independence propaganda meaning we are propagandised by independence bad rhetoric constantly, looking further into the foreign media in Scotland we don’t even have many Scottish programmes in Scotland, even the misnamed (STV) “Scottish Television” is now ran by ITV, Scots whether they realise it or not (if they watch terrestial channels) are watching the produce and personalities of a foreign country, undoubtably almost your entire childhood memories of tv programmes isn’t Scottish but English, meaning those memories are of a foreign country’s tv output, and its only gotten worse.
Boiling it all down we have been via our tv’s propagandised from a very early age that a foreign country’s tv output is our output when that’s not the case. I’m sorry for pointing this out that most of your childhood favourite tv programmes, that you probably rushed home from school to see are not the produce of your country (Scotland), but once you realise what’s been going on (its worse now) just in this sector of your life alone (terrestrial tv), to me its seems as though its all been one big lie.
Bar a rare few, I bet when you look back at your favourite childhood presenters on tv most of them will NOT be Scottish.
@Alf Baird
You would be the first to go to the Gulag. Crimes against words and their understanding. You just had to get ‘colonial’ in their twice. That’s your favourite. Pity you don’t understand the words you use. You should join the SNP.
Didn’t she sing
‘A Man’s A Man For A’ That’ at the opening of the Parliament.
Agreed she has a beautiful voice.
I doubt if that song would be allowed now.
@Merganser
Yes, Kavanagh was too old for Hilda (she said) and the affair was brief. Perhaps powerful for both. She,married in 1947 to O’Malley, put red roses on his grave. He married late and died the same year, 1967.
I think there is a fragment online of Kavanagh trying to sing part of the poem to that wonderful old tune, The Dawning of the Day. Clear enough, Kavanagh had the tune in mind when writing this poem.
There are plenty of versions of the song, which is a lament and perhaps also a celebration of lost love.
There is another version by a woman whose name I can’t recall that I like. Luke kelly’s is perhaps the best to start as it was he that Kavanagh asked to sing it.
There is another song/poem of lost love that I might have invited Ruby to hear. I think that you might know Down by the Sally Gardens by Yeats.
It’s a very different kind of poem. I think the emotional impact of it comes from what is unsaid.
There are lots of versions of this song too. I like Maura O’Connell and Karen Matheson singing it (Karen Matheson’s Ae Fond Kiss is my favourite) and I like the Clancy Brothers version though I could do without the poem in the middle.
John Main 9 January, 2024 at 6:45 pm
“I have asked Alf a number of times to look at setting up a thread restricted to Scots only posts.”
He knows that such a thread would be very specialist and exclude the majority here, thus proving that even amongst such ardent independent Scots, learning a language would be just too much faff.
With the advent of the ignore button, the commenters no longer need to see anything upsetting. Unfortunately they can’t control the rest of the internet or media. Or voters. They’re not bold enough to be more than armchair warriors but now they can be armchair warriors with cotton wool in their ears. My Scottish DNA is embarrassed at their commitment to the fight.
Republicofscotland @ 10.14am
‘Indy voters MUST NOT fall for this mans lies and deceitful actions’
Don’t bank on it RoS. Current polling makes you wonder just how bad a political party needs to be before the electorate realise it is THEY who are putting these people into office. But the merry-go-round will continue later this year as NuLabour prepare for another 5 years of inflicting misery on Scotland from WM, while HR 2031 is the earliest there is any hope of the electorate noticing that they’re getting kicked by the same boots, north and south of the border, they’ve merely nominated a different kicker.
There are around 4.1 million eligible to vote in Scotland, and with a 70% turnout, that equates to 2.87 million votes. Taking Rev Stu’s horizontal graphs of 47% YES voters, that works out at 1.35 million Yes’s.
If we set that number against recent polls, the stark reality is that 95% of Yes voters are telling us that Alba is not the answer for them: only 2% (58,000) say they would support Alba, and of those, only 1 in 5 will get the opportunity to vote for Alba in the WM GE.
The above stats also say that a million YES voters are still going with SNP, ‘falling for this man’s lies and deceitful actions’, while one third of a million YES voters prefer Starmer & NuLabour to Alba.
I’ve just received notice of an election fundraising appeal from Alba, but I’d rather we didn’t squander money on 12 hopeless causes, and don’t think we should be trying to get people into WM in any case. The route to independence begins and ends in Scotland, not WM.
But if Alba is going to provide that route, they really need to up the gameplan. Launched almost 3 years ago to great acclaim, it certainly ticked all the boxes as a natural home for disillusioned and former SNP supporters.
But the progress of Alba since those early months, for whatever reasons, has been … underwhelming, and unless significant progress is made during what promises to be a turbulent 2024, it is difficult to see it becoming a political force in time for the real test in 2026.
@sam 7.08pm
To be fair that’s a description that could apply to most of the contributions BTL. Perhaps the red box of ignoredness will help, perhaps not. Being able to rapidly skim past the usual suspects is a boon of course, but I suspect most would welcome the full functionality and see them disappear.
Oftentimes folk from different tribes are essentially talking past each other anyway, even though most in here are ostensibly on the same side.
For what it’s worth, while I may not have that much in common with John Main’s views or politics, he’s much less of a problem in here than the usual suspects. The ones you should be wary of aren’t the ones like him whose standpoint you find hard to judge, but the unreasoning claque in here who have done so much to implode the quality and quantity of BTL discourse.
This place ought to be showcasing a range of views, including – even especially – those who are sceptical about independence and perhaps persuadable. I’d far rather read the contrubtions of John Main, Turabdin and some others than most of those now happily redboxed above.
I can understand why Rev Stu says he hasn’t read the comments for the past six years. Here’s hoping for an improvement and a return to the WoS of old. Stranger things have happened, and I guess we could all do with a lift to take us towards a better destination.
@ sam
“She,married in 1947 to O’Malley, put red roses on his grave. He married late and died the same year, 1967.”
Hilda Moriarty married O’Malley in 1947. Kavanagh married in 1967 and died the same year.Hilda put red roses on Kavanagh’s grave.
Strewth
“Mark Beggan says:
You would be the first to go to the Gulag. Crimes against words and their understanding. You just had to get ‘colonial’ in their twice.”
That’ll be “there”, since we’re talking about crimes against words…
Whit! Nancy didn’t die! I’ve been wasting my ‘heart-wrung tears’ on an adulterer.
It’s still a good song but was better when I thought Nancy died.
What about
‘A Man’s a Man for a’ That’
Sounds like something that would risk getting you cancelled if you chose to sing it.
@ Alf Baird says:9 January, 2024 at 7:20 pm
Thons a braw poem.
Meikle thankis.
Maybes Rev Stu won’t mind if you re-post from time to time.
@Ebok 8.03pm
I reckon you’re right about Alba. It’s dispiriting not to see it doing better, and the continuing inertia amongst Yes voters. I’m still hoping that #GE2024 will result in the scales falling from more eyes and provide a springboard for a realignment of the party political scene.
Realistically the SNP aren’t going to just disappear à la IPP in 1918, but we can hope that a good gubbing will finally result in change. There wasn’t much chance of Alba reaching escape velocity and breaking the mould when most of the gutless wonders in Westminster & Holyrood stayed in the sinking ship.
We can still aim for plebiscitary elections if all pro-independence parties co-operate to make it so: they don’t have to like each other, they just have to place plebiscitary elections front and centre.
A few like Angus B MacNeil get it. Let’s hope we see more Damascene conversions.
Ebok.
Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots did so much damage to the cause and the SNP, that things will get worse before they will get better the SNP post Alex Salmond (2015) onwards is not a party for Scottish independence. Scots need to remove the SNP MSPs from Holyrood it will take time, probably 2026 will see the SNP back in office albeit with help from the Greens and the foreign party at Holyrood know as Labour, it will take a long time to remove the majority of SNP MSPs.
As for Alba, like the ISP they don’t get the media coverage the SNP and the foreign branch office parties such as the Tories/Labour/Lib/Dems get on the foreign media in Scotland that is no accident it is by design.
Again I’ll refer you to the foreign media that propagandises Scots 24/7 that we need the union, when we are infact held back and are much poorer by being in it. Basically in an ideal world where all Scots (well most some will never see the light) were informed at what was actually going on dissolving the union would be a no-brainer, but we are up against one of the most deceitful nefarious bellicose nations on the planet (England) which cannot afford to lose Scottish assets.
Not only are we being lied to by foreign parties at our parliament and the foreign media we are being lied to by a plethora of House Jocks who make a good living out of the status quo, add in that English MoD (part of its domestic remit is to maintain the status quo with Scotland in mind) has an entire army of British soldiers online putting down Scottish independence, these soldiers are working against Scottish interests and are working for English interests, the British army does not serve Scottish interests, it never has and it never will.
Scotland is at the mercy of its bellicose neighbour, we have no armed forces to protect ourselves the so called “British” armed forces are controlled from a foreign country namely England, their politicians decide who you’ll go to war with regardless of what you think.
Only fools think that power is given, its not it has to be taken, and Scots will need to take their independence as other nations have.
Sam @ 7.53.
I have spent a lot of time in County Sligo, and used to drink in O’Connors bar in Ballisadare, the village where Yeats got the inspiration from an old woman for his poem Down by the Sally Gardens.
I’m not smitten with a lot of Yeat’s poetry, but one summer evening I stood on the banks of Lough Gill opposite Innisfree island where there was a copy of his famous poem on a post. I read it, and the evening was full of linnets wings just as he had experienced it over a hundred years previously.
I have never been to a more peaceful place. His poem does it justice.
I have stood on Dooney Rock and read his poem ‘The Fiddler of Dooney’, which is quite light-hearted for Yates, and has an amusing twist at the end.
The one other poem of his which I like is ‘The Stolen Child’. Best to read this by Glencar waterfall when the flapping heron is around.
Ireland used to be a truly magical place, but no longer. It managed to extracate itself from the English yoke after many years of struggle, and then gave their freedom away by becoming a little cog in the european machine. All changed, changed utterly, as Yeats might say. It is no longer the country of Ireland, just a European outpost, colonised by European rule if you like.
There is a lesson for Scotland here. If it does gain independence, and then surrenders it to the shackles of Europe, it will all have been in vain. The SNP route leads to tragedy for Scotland. They need to be jettisoned before it is too late.
@Republicofscotland says:9 January, 2024 at 7:07 pm
You had me air punching and whooping along until this line:
Scotland’s wealth, this wealth belongs to you and your children/granchildren and their children
Uh oh.
If we Sovereign Scots were actually having children, then we wouldn’t need pretendy FM Yousaf’s million or two New Scots he plans to import to empty the bins, deliver the carry oots we can’t be bovvered to fetch ourselves, and wipe oor erses as we end our days in the geriatric warehousing units.
Anybody wanting to claim it’s the English that are stopping us from shagging is free to do so, but come on, let’s try to keep it real for once.
Another wrong that must be righted is that Holyrood has foreign parties at it this is utterly wrong and must be changed.
Labour the Lib/Dems and the Tories at Holyrood are NOT Scottish parties, they have no right to represent Scots at Holyrood it appears to me that they have gained Holyrood representation under false pretences.
Scots have voted for these parties while under the illusion that they are Scottish parties when they are not they are off-shoots of their London HQ parties and answer to them as such.
Would any other parliament in the world allow a foreign countries political parties to stand in it, I here you say Westminster but Westminster relies on parties from Wales/Scotland/NI to give it an air of legitmacy and credibility without those countries sending MPs to Westminster, it would be exposed for what it really is a majority English parliament.
This why I’m 100% against Scotland sending any MPs to Westminster they only give the parliament credibility by them being there.
Back to the foreign parties at Holyrood they must stand down.
@Merganser 8.46pm
I can’t claim your in depth knowledge of Ireland and although I’d accept it isn’t perfect, I’d certainly swap our position for theirs. Your somewhat jaundiced view of it being a cog in the European machine has little or no resonance amongst Irish people I know, and Euroscepticism is very much a fringe view there according to all the evidence.
The magical place of yore you describe isn’t something most Irish folk I know would want to return to.
Your outlook certainly has resonance with some in here, and even with a minority in the movement, but it’s still very much a fringe view. Scots in general want to be part of the European project: it’s not an SNP project. If you and others have an alternative plan of splendid isolation, good luck having it adopted!
While going a long way with Alf Baird on this, I think Turabdin’s “here we have no abiding city” pitch is counsel to us all.
Languages are ultimately untranslatable. That bedrock reality eludes complacent monoglot speakers of English. Every language embodies a unique trajectory and journey through time and space — a singular parsing and syncopation of human existence. All languages are one-off searchlights into the night, all are potential James Webb telescopes exploring and illuminating different fields of the deep space of human consciousness. The extinction of a language is of even more consequence than the grievous extinction of an animal or plant species.
The survival of English is not in question. English is patently and securely globally dominant. More so by far than any other language has ever been. But English remains nonetheless a cage of the mind (as the sainted George Orwell has so well taught us). English prevails not because it is blessedly benign, nor because of Darwinian lexical fitness. English holds universal sway because its speakers killed, corralled, browbeat and exploited more human beings than was managed by any other imperial plunderers in history.
English still expands globally, no doubt to the benefit of many who would otherwise be mind-locked within stultified cultures. But ultimately English deracinates (uproots), not simply via physical Anglo-American invasions, but via insidious statist, billionaire-manipulated, media empires which foster conformity of thought — anglophone thought — primarily not for altruistic but for cynical reasons, foremost of which being economic gain for England, America, and assorted plutocrats.
I notice that (rather ironically since Brexit) Ursula von der Leyen and Roberta Metsola have presided over the marked anglicisation of EU core discourse, despite EU official status being extended to further languages such as Irish, which (again ironically) now has significantly more practical recognition and usage in Europe than it has ever had under successive tokenistic administrations in Ireland who, I truly believe, would much prefer its quick demise.
It is important to realise that when it comes to language there is a real sense in which we don’t have to frustratedly await Scottish independence “coming round the mountain when she comes”. We can personally declare a “Republic of the Mind” this very day. An internal republic of language, thought and identity. Preferably a polyglot identity, but at least beginning to seriously cultivate (as a matter of urgent national stewardship) a Scottish language, while gaining informational fluency in an international language other than English (which, as ever, will look after itself…).
I don’t class myself as a lurker – I comment now and again, usually to provide info and so on, rather than opinion, because for the past couple of months or so, there have been a number of Ad Hominem attacks, rather than debating the opinions of others.
I have also found that comments seem to be longer and longer and I find myself scrolling past comments that are more than 4 paragraphs – or are an inches long block of solid text, with no paragraphs.
What are lurkers doing, if I’m doing that? Lurkers spread the word, even if they never comment. Look at Dundee Annie – she reads here every day but never comments but does promote WOS at every opportunity.
Short and sweet – make a point then retire behind the barricades and watch for a response.
Posting half a dozen comments in the space of an hour is over the top. Are these comments to elicit a response, or because there’s nothing on TV?
This comment may be regarded as a rant.
End of rant.
I’m a lurker.
@Merganser 8.45 pm
Thanks for sharing your memories. You took me with you.
I’ll read The Stolen Child.
Perhaps it is globalisation that has affected Ireland as elsewhere in the world. It will die eventually. Though it may kill the host.
Andy Ellis at 9.17pm
Ireland is not on its own in regretting what the EU has become. Many EU countries are are concerned with the EU’s direction of travel. It has become a monster, far different from its original design.
My experience of the views of Irish people is obviously different from yours. I am regularly told that Ireland has lost its identity, its personality if you like. You only have to go there now and see for yourself the change from what it was only twenty years ago. Recent events in Dublin are a sign of the discontent which is bubbling under the surface and sometimes emerges. Such behaviour should of course be condemned, but it is an indication of the unhappiness of a lot of people, who didn’t anticipate what is an effective takeover of their country.
There is a case for a European Union of countries, but not along the lines it is presently run on, and its direction of travel which will only make it worse.
The Scottish Government Conversation Therapy Bill…
We’re a transgender country called Scotland don’t you know. Born in Scotland. Identified in Britain.
The conversation therapy Bill will never pass. The courts must outlaw it. Before the SNP outlaw Doctors.
I hope the conservatives win in England. I despise the Tories. I really do but. We can’t have this poison making its way through the Scottish Parliament.
Alaister Jack. Calling Alaister Jack. Section 35. You know what to you. Your mob are good for something at least.
What’s happening down at a mosque Humza? How will the conservation therapy bill be compatible with the muslim doctors and in our Christian values country of Scotland?
Your time is up Humza. Don’t resign. Await the sacking. The lord Advocate. Your protector Dorothy Stain is off ski as well. The lot of you are utter poison. Your values and believes are odds with what Scotland wants.
I’m going to enjoy seeing Stephen Flynn lose his seat. I can’t wait.
I am spoiling my ballot. I despise you all. I want to know if Ian Blackford has been caught with his pants down and money sticking in his hole?
Ps. Don’t resign sturgeon from the SNP. Go down with the ship and etch your name in history as the woman that killed the SNP.
EASTER 1916 (extract)
by William Butler Yeats
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse—
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
CÀISG 1916 (earrann)
Eadar-theangaichte le Ruaraidh MacThòmais
Dè th’ann ach tuiteam na h-oidhch’?
Chan e ’n oidhch’ ach am bàs th’air an tòir,
bàs is gun fheum air a chaoidh?
Cumaidh Sasainn a gealladh is dòch’,
as bith dè chaidh dhèanamh no ràdh.
Am bruadar is aithne dhuinn; ’s leòr
gun do bhruadair iad ’s fhuair iad am bàs;
dè ma chuir an gaol bh’aca a chòrr
fo bhreislich iad dh’ionnsaigh na crìch?
Sgrìobham e sìos ann a rann —
MacDhonnchaidh is MacIlleBhrìghd,
Ó Conghail ’s am Piarrsach a bh’ann,
a-nis ’s anns an àm ri teachd,
far am bi aodach uaine gun chleith,
air caochladh gu tur is gu beachd:
tha bòidhchead uamharr’ am bith.
(‘Bàrdachd na Roinn-Eòrpa an Gàidhlig /
European Poetry in Gaelic’, GAIRM, 1990)
That’s a good name for it!
No conversations between doctors & patients.
If you smoke 60 a day, drink two bottles of whiskey or are 10 stone over weight you can relax ‘cos the doctor isn’t going to be allowed to mention your life threatening bad habits. No conversation to try to convert you from being a smoker to a being a non smoker.
The Samaritans do a lot of ‘conversation’ therapy. I think it might be all they do.
Their aim is to convert people from being suicidal to being non suicidal.
The Samaritans will probably have to close.
Weight Watchers they are all about conversion.
Same with gyms & personal trainers.
They’d better watch that they don’t fall foul of the conversion therapy bill.
The ultimate conversion therapy surely is the attempt to convert a man into a woman.
Which seems to be OK as long as there is no conversation before the conversion.
It’s all absolutely mad.
The most annoying thing about all the madness is these ‘conversions’ are being done on the NHS.
🙂
Conservation therapy!
What about Conservative therapy?
Slow down David!
Who knew Wings had so many teachers BTL.
Zzzzz
As for Scots language no one is interested in.
Isn’t Auld Lang Syne sung the world over?
Isn’t Burns celebrated every year?
Both world famous.
Who sings fcking “Brummie” LOL
So many wankers with opinions on anything relating to Scots. From the way we speak to the forum police on how many sentences we should stick to & to what topics.
Might I suggest you get it right up yer rarr?
Yeas are aw pure fckin warmers. Dae us a favour & Bolt ya dobbers!
The *speak right* crew can do one. It’s just more colonial bullshit.
Oops, looks like I’ve used up my permitted quota.
Scots language is very much alive & well. People even make YouTube tutorials with famous people describing what they actually mean.
But according to the roasters on here no one is interested.
We see you though. It’s to have an underhand dig at Alf because he hits a nerve. Piss off & bully someone else.
*If we could only post GIFs on here I’d post a Jack & Victor summing up what most think. PRICKSSSS* LOL
In other, more important news..
Get over to the Scottish Government website & fill in their consultation.
Proposed penalties
*on summary conviction: imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (£10,000), or to both
*on conviction on indictment (solemn procedure): imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years, or to an unlimited fine, or both
& The judge gets to make shit up according to himself & if I’m understanding it correctly – that includes speaking to yer children in another country. Instead of a roaming charge we’ll have a roaming conviction..LOL
The Greens are a dangerous lot of fcking deviants. Banging on about conversion & suppressing ppls sexual orientation when it’s them coercing & convincing young people they’re born in the wrong body, go onto a path of mass sterilisation & it’s forbidden to hold a conversation with parents & health care professionals who will end up convicted.
https://consult.gov.scot/equality-and-human-rights/ending-conversion-practices/
@ Ruby says:9 January, 2024 at 11:55 pm
drink two bottles of whiskey
In this country, or if you are writing about the good stuff, it’s spelled “whisky”.
The Irish are a grand bunch, even with the EU destroying them, but they can’t make whisky.
The worst of our bad stuff is still better than most of their whiskey.
I’m with Briandoonthetoon @ 09.26.
So many of the endless, repetitive posts remind me of reading a ‘stream of conciousness’ novel by Brendan Behan, just lacking his talent.
Perhaps the new ignore feature is an apt fearure for what BTL has become, it may be operated, it appears to be engaged, however nothing changes. (I appreciate the green cross & red box appear, for the pedants amongst us, however indulge an old duffer).
And please feel free to ‘ignore’ me, I don’t take it to heart. What’s the betting that anyone who comments on my post has me on ‘ignore’ however somehow manages to read this.
I’ve just thought of a new story. It’s called
‘The Pub that went Online’.
This is just the first very rough draft I’m just making it up as a type. They’ll be loads of typos & spelling errors but hey ‘the editor’ who I call Pita will be along shortly to correct my many errors. It’s yet another one of these weird fetishes that we keep hearing about.
I though ‘the editor’ would have given me the X and put me in ‘red boxers’ but no such luck.
Back in the good old days we all went to the pub but now it’s all online.
In the pub you would have the old bodachs who would sit at the same table day after day talking about the same things. They are now doing it online. Occasionally things would get heated and they would get chucked out. They would be back the next day having the same old argument. Pub manager not too strict with his PMT one of the old bodachs was his da. (in a future chapter his da becomes his ma)
There were a whole load of tables in the pub each one having different conversations about different topics.
You would have the university types at one table talking about nuclear physics, another table talking about football, some talking about the state of things in the local area and coming up with practical solutions, they weren’t interested in what was going on in Mesopotamia.
There would be a table of folk cracking jokes and making others laugh. They were my favourites. Others talking about music, films, poetry etc. I quite liked them too.
Quite a few tables were there for the flirting, matching and swiping right. They are all online now too.
It’s all online now and there are problems because everyone can hear what all the other tables are talking about. It’s a nightmare especially for the university types who believe everyone who doesn’t want to join in with their discussion about nuclear physics should SHUT UP!
Others shouting ‘you’re talking too much’ Could you give it a rest and curtail your chat to five words per hour.
Then you’ve got the ‘teachers’ who would go around all the tables saying ‘I’ve just been listening to what you were saying and you’ve got a few facts wrong, let me correct you. Total ‘pitas’. They often got a right swipe but it had nothing to do with dating. They would get chucked out for causing fights even if the pub were empty.
Lots of problems in ‘The Pub That Went Online’
I nearly forgot the ones who were stuck pre 2014 and kept repeating the ‘Better Together’ scare stories.
They are definitely now online we call them ‘trolls’
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 9:20 pm
“but at least beginning to seriously cultivate (as a matter of urgent national stewardship) a Scottish language”
I presume you mean ‘Gaelic’, being, in your opinion, ‘the’ Scottish language, Fearghas?
Whit aboot the Scots langage, ma mither tongue? Whaur’s oor Scots Langage Act?
Scotlan wis makkit fae twa fowks an culturs, efter aw.
@Sven 8.56am
Maybe it just looks worse now than in “the olden days”? There used to be more people posting, which probably meant more variety. Even then some folk used to complain when threads went off topic, as they all usually did even if the earlier posts were more related to the OP.
Rev Stu always prided himself on moderation BTL being light touch, and there’s merit in that. The problem comes when people spam the place with extraneous stuff. Folk don’t tend to use the Off Topic thread here though, and since individual posts don’t seem to be character limited, and the number posted by individuals isn’t limited, we’re probably stuck with the current system unless the full functionality works in future and those you “red box” actually disappear.
I’m quite happy only to interact with those who aren’t on the ignore list, although it may make for some disjointed threads I suppose. Time will tell if the new system makes a difference to the number of posts and whether more people post in future.
SVEN 08:56
Had to Google Brendan Behan.
Found these quotes
«If it was raining soup, the Irish would go out with forks»
«Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis»
Scots likewise?
GERI (02.52)
Marxists have always tried to get between parents and their children. They want to break the links with the past and they’re not fussy how. Maggie Chapman, leading the SGP campaign effort on this, is a Marxist. Their authoritarian boots are all over this latest wheeze. It has nothing to do with an environmental outlook.
No doubt there will be folk claiming that the madness of this conversion therapy proposal somehow makes dualling the A9, preventing a small sample of the the natural seabed from destruction economic exploitation, and pumping oil into a climate inferno, somehow sane.
I won’t be surprised if it’s “you” making that claim.
Alf Baird @ 10 Jan 2024 at 9:50 am says:
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh @ 9:20 pm
“but at least beginning to seriously cultivate (as a matter of urgent national stewardship) a Scottish language”
I presume you mean ‘Gaelic’, being, in your opinion, ‘the’ Scottish language, Fearghas?
——————-
Alf, my use of the indefinite article was precisely considered and carefully magnanimous.
I’m so sick of it but not sick enough of it to give up my lucrative taxpayer funded salary should be the quote. This one article shows us clearly that the SNP can’t influence anything at Westminster and they know it themselves, yet they cling on to their parliamentarian status regardless of how insignificant they are in the eyes of this foreign parliaments MPs and their House Jock MPs.
The SNP MPs need to walk out of the HoC never to return, by remaining at Westminster all they are doing is giving Westminster credibility, and power over Scotland, power that’s hurting Scots on all levels, but alas they’ll continue to carry on because like the myriad of MPs that Scotland has sent to Westminster over the centuries they make a good living out of it even though for the majority of Scots back home there’s no benefit whatsoever to being held in this rancid union.
As for Labour MPs from Scotland, they don’t represent Scotland how can they when there’s no such party as the Scottish Labour party, the Scottish electorate are being deceived and conned into voting for a party that doesn’t exist, the same applies with the “Scottish Tories and the “Scottish” Lib/Dems.
Vote Alba, Join Alba.
Down with the union.
https://archive.is/z65Yv
Turabdin @ 10.08.
Consider my having pressed both the non existant ‘like’ & ‘laughing’ emojis on that braw selection of his more lucid comments.
Despite the more extreme fringes of the Scots independence movement I still have faith in our peoples’ intrinsic pragmatism and common sense. (Though I do sometimes wonder why it’s termed common when it is so conspicously uncommon in political circles).
Superb article on Iain Lawson’s YOURS FOR SCOTLAND blog.
Entitled POOR THINGS. Written by Elspeth King.
A must read, particularly for Glaswegians.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/01/10/poor-things/
Typos treated, should read:
“No doubt there will be folk claiming that the madness of this conversion therapy proposal makes dualling the A9, preventing a small sample of the the natural seabed from destructive economic exploitation, and pumping oil into a climate inferno, somehow sane.”
TURABDIN @ 10:08 am
“Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis» Scots likewise?”
External reality for ‘a people’ may be difficult to discern, more especially in a colonial environment where reality tends to be ‘obscured’.
‘Colonization is based on psychology’ and in this a people ‘crave dependence’ (Cesaire) on another culture/people and deny their own oppression (i.e. ‘internalized racism’). A culturally assimilated people crave the identity of the colonizer and denigrate/discard their own culture.
So yes, independence is essentially about a people dealing with ‘a psychological condition’ (Memmi) as a consequence of colonialism, which to a large extent helps explain the ‘No’ vote among the indigenous population. Liberation is about ‘decolonising the mind’.
What Scotland might expect from a Labour UK government. Gordy B.
https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/a-new-britain-renewing-our-democracy-and-rebuilding-our-economy/
Here is a prime example of a foreign political party in Scotland at Holyrood defending its current HQ boss in London.
“The Scottish Lib Dems have defended Ed Davey over his role in the Horizon IT scandal after he was accused of having “fobbed off” sub-postmasters.
The MP served as postal affairs minister between 2010 and 2012 in the coalition government. Alex Cole-Hamilton, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, insisted “Davey should not stand down.”
Remember there is no Scottish Lib/Dem party, its just the English Lib/Dems in Scotland.
@TURABDIN
You might like Flann O’Brien. If not you might like Myles na Gopaleen.
UAIGNEAS
Breandán Ó Beacháin / Brendan Behan (1923-64)
Blas sméara dubh’
tréis báisteach
ar bharr an tsléibhe.
I dtost an phríosúin
Feadaoil fhuar na traenach.
Cogar gáire beirt leannán
don aonarán.
LONELINESS
Translated by Ulick O’Connor
The blackberries’ taste
after rainfall
on the hilltop.
In the silence of prison
the train’s cold whistle.
The whisper of laughing lovers
to the lonely.
@Ruby
The bastards all move round from table to table butting in, not butting out.
@fruitella the hun 10.58am
I suppose doctrinaire Marxists, whether those in power or their supporters, have always thought that the ends justified the means?
We all speak well of a bridge that carries us safely over to the other side, but it doesn’t stop a lot of conflict about how the bridge should be built, who by and for whose benefit.
Sometimes the international community has worked together to sort a problem (remember the hole in the ozone layer?), but for other global and potentially even existential problems, whether climate change, population growth, hunger, conflict there seems to be no appetite to put aside differences of political outlook to achieve common goals.
The same phenomenon can be seen on a smaller scale in our own politics, and within the pro-independence movement. The big, gaudy, joyous and inclusive indy juggernaut of 2012-14 seems a distant memory now. As the focus for many doesn’t seem to be achieving independence in any reasonable timescale, their attention moves on – like the Greens – to other issues.
Perhaps as a movement we’re too busy arguing about what colour the bridge should be and whether it’s guaranteed to be perfect and haven’t noticed that the river is getting wider all the time?
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
I enjoyed your post about language which offers great insight but the irony is, one thing it shows is how incredibly powerful, beautiful and expressive English is, especially in the hands of someone who can write so well.
I agree its world dominance is heavily predicated on colonialism but it has also been extensively influenced by the colonised, expanding the language hugely with new words and expressions which English readily absorbs. In that sense it is not a ‘proud’ language, but a mongrel one.
The missing element is that modern English itself is very much a result of being colonised by the Normans who expanded the vocabulary hugely (doubling its words with subtle variations on a theme and bringing together Latin and Germanic roots, the poetic and prosaic) and changed the form of it, making it grammatically quite simple, an admitted mess in terms of spelling and with endless shades of meaning.
All of that together adds up to why English is so widespread and dominant.
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
Thanks for the link, my home towns (Glasgow) city fathers have been running the place down for Christ knows how long now, many excellent old building have had their roofs burnt out, supposedly vandalism believe that if you like, (they need to be pulled down when that happens) and the land then sees private housing or office blocks built upon it, more recently it has been student accommodation that’s being built, whilst Glaswegians looking for social housing find themselves ignored, is it any wonder Tammany Hall aka Glasgow city chambers has declared a housing crisis in the city.
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh 10.57am
Thanks for link to Elspeth King’s wonderful article (on Iain Lawson’s site) about People’s Palace. A must read. Widely shared.
The only problem I have with posts are the ones that make me angry, totally wind me up.
I expect the same thing would happen if I read posts on the ‘Klu Klux Klan’ or ‘National Front’ websites.
I’ve learned from past experience that it’s best to totally avoid these posts. I have no problem scrolling quickly past. SQP. I love the ignore button.
As for other languages, dialects accents etc. I have no problem with that either in fact I find it all very interesting.
I was brought up in an environment where people spoke Gaelic & English. I don’t freak out if I see a road sign in Gaelic and have no problem if folk speak Scots. It’s all very interesting.
(Still a bit miffed that Nancy didn’t die)
I lived in Germany, France & Spain. In Germany I was struggling with the language so I didn’t notice other dialects, languages being spoken. I wouldn’t have recognised the difference between Schweizerdeutsch and deutsch.
In France I did notice the difference between Alsatian, Canadian French & French. I didn’t come across anyone speaking Breton or at least I don’t think so. I don’t think I would recognise Breton if I heard it. Provencal I did recognise.
Alastian French is the language spoken by the Amish.
Then in Spain there was Andalucian (Andaloo)
(spoken in Andalusia, Ceuta, Melilla, and Gibraltar.)
I though it was great and I wanted to speak like a native so was happy to learn Andaloo.
There’s a joke that asks what is the half of ‘nada’ in Andalucia. The answer is na.
I don’t think I have to translate ‘nada’ that seems to now have entered into the English language.
Maybe the ‘na’ bit needs to be explained. I’ll tell you if you don’t get it. Just ask.
Then there’s ‘Valenciano’ I didn’t learn any Valenciano because I wasn’t in that area. If I had been I would have been keen to learn some ‘Valenciano’
Catalan it was suggested I should have learned before asking questions in Castellano in Barcelona where I was told they only speak Catalan. Sorry!
There’s Basque and possibly loads of other languages spoken in Spain.
Is ‘Madrileno’ a language/dialect.
I absolutely do not have a problem with any of that I find it all very interesting.
I love Glaswegian. I’m happy to learn & speak like a Weegie.
When I was back home in the colony I worked for an outside catering company. On one occasion we were sent to Fraserburgh (The Broch) to serve at a wedding. That was a whole different world. What a brilliant gig. I learned a whole load of new words and had the most delicious fish I have ever tasted for dinner. It was fascinating! I loved it.
So no I do not have a problem with people speaking different languages/dialects in fact I love it all.
PS Maybe not too keen on the Jacob Rees-Mogg type accents. Does that make me a racist?
PPS I even learned some Arabic when I was working in the South of Spain & Morocco. Well actually on learning Spanish I had already learned loads of Arabic.
PPPS. Spain was coloniser by the ‘Ottoman Boys’ from 711 to 1492
@Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh.
That piece by Elspeth King was nail hit firmly on the head, excellent work, thank you for linking to it.
@RoS
If you read the likes of the Guardian you will notice that there are two types of people now, the Far Right and Anti Fascists. The Far Right are people who are not into having their children shagged or stabbed by foreign men and/or their areas turned into settlements. Some people have not realised this yet and are bypassing the brain and allowing their feelings to be manipulated.
Southernbystander @ 11.34 am writes:
“I agree its world dominance is heavily predicated on colonialism but it has also been extensively influenced by the colonised, expanding the language hugely with new words and expressions which English readily absorbs. In that sense it is not a ‘proud’ language, but a mongrel one.” etc
—————————
Thanks. Feedback appreciated. I of course agree with your extolling of English for its hybrid malleability, owed historically to its Germanic and Norman French roots, its Renaissance influx of Latin and Greek, its receptivity to random indigenous words from throughout the Empire, and so it continues to date. Riches untold.
So who needs any other languages? That’s where the hubris threatens. Is there any point in fostering what remains of our Scottish languages? Or in rescuing any threatened language anywhere? Or any point even learning other major languages (since anything worthwhile will eventually be translated into English, one plausibly assumes).
Englishman Orwell alerts us to the danger to humanity of becoming trapped within a single government-controlled language. And we increasingly facing that reality daily in Scotland, with current SNP/Green attempts to legislate us all into conformity or silence, even in our homes. Excuse the longish quote:
« The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought – that is, a thought diverging from the principles of Ingsoc – should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and very subtle expression to every meaning that a party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meanings and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and by stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meanings whatever. To give a single example. The word free still existed in Newspeak, but it could only be used in such statements as ‘This dog is free from lice’ or ‘This field is free from weeds’. It could not be used in its old sense of ‘politically free’ or ‘intellectually free’, since political and intellectual freedom no longer existed even as concepts, and were therefore of necessity nameless. Quite apart from the suppression of definitely heretical words, reduction of vocabulary was regarded as an end in itself, and no word that could be dispensed with was allowed to survive. Newspeak was designed not to extend but to diminish the range of thought, and this purpose was indirectly assisted by cutting the choice of words down to a minimum. »
(George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four (Harmondsworth, 1968), pp. 241-2)
There is clearly a connection between language and control (while rejecting postmodernist reductionism in that regard). In one of the essays in his book, ‘Language and Silence’, George Steiner discusses the effects of Nazi manipulation of the German language. Samuel Beckett and TS Eliot warn us about impending existential silence as words become drained of meaning.
We are more now nervously silent than we were a decade ago. Five years ago. Technology per se and governmental monitoring are exponentially intrusive. I see every language as a potential escape route of the mind. A mode of mental jailbreak from linguistic Alcatraz. A new horizon, indeed. I say that as a Dooyeweerdian Christian who believes we have a responsibility to oppose tyranny on the planet, to foster coherent discourse, to seek human flourishing, to value the creation, and so on.
Thus as for our ailing Scottish languages, I take to heart Christ’s remark that ‘it is not the healthy but the sick who need the doctor’. English does not need me. Gaelic does.
For anyone interested, a bit more on Scottish language matters here (written in 1983 for Cencrastus literary magazine) –
EUROPA’S REPRESSED ID?: ‘THE CELTIC CONSCIOUSNESS’
https://gobha-uisge.blogspot.com/2012/06/europas-repressed-id-celtic.html
BankofEngland.co.uk.
The Bank of England was founded as a private bank in 1694
To act under a Royal Charter to be incorporated and to finance the Wars between William 111 and Louis of France, by an Act of the parliament of England
Under the Royal Charter, (monarch of England) and parliament of England The Governor, and ” The Company of the Bank of England” which still exists in some of its original form today, remained a private bank until The Bank of England Act 1946. Of Westminster parliament of England.
Until 1946 the treasury in the parliament of Westminster was not using a Bank of Great-Britain.
But a private Bank for Scotland Wales and Ireland,
How does that news effect the ” National Debt ” of Great-Britain?
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
Very interesting posts.
I wonder exactly what is meant by English. There are all different types of English. Thankfully not everyone speaks ‘English’ in exactly the same way.
I have never been to Texas but I have read a lot of fiction set in Texas. Where y’all talk like Texans. Bless your hearts! ‘Texan English’ is wonderful. Loads of great words and expressions.
Then there’s ‘Australian English’ which for some strange reason I can’t get into. I’ve tried to read contemporary Australian fiction without success. I struggle with references to the outback, the barbie thongs, etc etc.
It’s weird perhaps it’s because I didn’t grow up watching Australian films. I did read Colleen McCullough’s ‘Thorn Birds’ but that was only because it had been on the telly and I had ‘a partial fancy’ on/of Dr Kildare.
I did watch ‘The Rabbit Proof Fence’ maybe that influenced my think about Australia.
Same applies to ‘Indian English’.
‘Scottish English’ is great but the only thing about that is I’m not too keen on books where ‘there’s been a murder’ and most contemporary Scottish fiction is all about murder.
In an earlier post I mentioned the Spanish word nada. That is now part of the English language and so is cojones, vino, tapas, paella, y
Hasta la vista!
Hasta luego!
What exactly is this English that folk are talking about?
Is it what the Americans refer to as ‘British’? They love a ‘British’ accent.
ALF BAIRD
@11:11
Indeed it is a matter of psychology and state of mind.
Im supposed to be an Iraqi Arab and some sort of Muslim. Im not either, period. But it is an intellectual leap for some to understand that, most do not bother.
Scots must endure similar with being taken for English/British with an alien culture stamp imposed on the matter.
My mind is very clear about my identity and its associations. Some respect that, others set out to prove you are a freak, in respect this language matters. My first language may be Arabic but my mother speech is not. A great great grandfather spoke and wrote Ottoman Turkish, that did not make him a Turk.
In order to survive we had to adopt the habit of the chameleon.
Republic
**The MP served as postal affairs minister between 2010 and 2012 in the coalition government. Alex Cole-Hamilton, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, insisted “Davey should not stand down.”**
Aye, just as paedophiles weren’t to stand down either.
Or election liars
Or bullies..
Alex Cole top troll needs to fck off after all that’s been revealed about himself bullying staff & cavorting with male prostitute’s in parliament.
That party doesn’t have an ounce of integrity. I dunno why the blue rinse brigade vote for them. Any ideas anyone?
Fruitella 10:10
**No doubt there will be folk claiming that the madness of this conversion therapy proposal somehow makes dualling the A9, preventing a small sample of the the natural seabed from destruction economic exploitation, and pumping oil into a climate inferno, somehow sane.
I won’t be surprised if it’s “you” making that claim.**
Do get back to us when the Greens are actually serious about any of that. They’ve had 10 years in coalition. Two years troughing at the top table & their great moment in the spotlight has seen copious amounts of money spaffed up the wall on gender shite thats of fck all benefit to Scotland, isn’t environmental (unless you count the wackadoos population control/ mass steralisation) doesn’t have a mandate & does not carry public support.
The sooner you wake up that the deviant Greens aren’t environmentally friendly the better for the rest of the population. It was a vehicle only. A Trojan Horse. The rainbow crew of porn addicts.
“…the English language…has enhanced its vocabulary by tremendous borrowings from practically every other language in the world – but not from Gaelic. The genius of the two tongues is utterly incompatible. English has not even borrowed to any extent from Braid Scots, though Braid Scots has hundreds of admirably expressive words for which English has no equivalents at all or no precise equivalents… It has eschewed those qualities of the Scottish spirit which made the words in question. English ascendancy necessitates the suppression of these Scottish elements. It depends upon the stultification of all that is most vividly and vitally Scottish.”
Hugh MacDiarmid
At The Sign Of The Thistle
There you go again Geri. Ranting that all Greens are deviants without a shred of evidence. Queer theory comes from the deviant left and was weaponised by the clever WASP-centred oligarchies, the plutocrats, for their quasi-fascist purposes. Philanthropists aren’t democrats.
I have posted repeatedly on here that I do not support the policies rooted in queer theories but do support those borne of environmental awareness. The SGP contains members of each kind, whereas the other parties only tend to have the queer contingent, being mostly pumpers who put profits before nature and the communities capable of working it.
I’m in dismay that the decent people within the SGP haven’t detached from the loony left running it. But I agree that the Green brand is finished – which was all some wannabe troughers were trying to accomplish for their sponsors.
Is anyone concerned about the company dealing with the closure of Stewart Milne Homes Group? You should be! They deal with politicians to rape the market. An American group who have dealt with the likes of Blair, Cameron and Clinton and paid massive fees for their support.
Are there no Scottish legal companies that can do this work to try and stem this corruption by foreign corporates?
There are quite a few Gaelic words that have found their way into English, though perhaps not that many for reasons suggested above:
Bard, ben, caber, cairn, capercaillie, cèilidh, clan, claymore, crag, galore, gillie, glen, gob, loch, mackintosh, pet, pillion, plaid, ptarmigan, shindig, slogan, sporran, spunk, strontium, trousers, whisky.
Also those that may be from Irish Gaelic:
Brogue, hubbub, shanty, smidgen, strath.
I agree with Ruby, I love to hear lots of different languages, dialects and accents and am a strong supporter of the defense of more endangered tongues. The only caveat is that some languages do fade away or are usurped as it were (Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Cornish etc) and this is inevitable. Deciding what to try and protect is the question. Scots, Gaelic, Welsh are prime examples of languages that need all the support they can get since as some others have eloquently pointed out, this is about far more than just a language but a whole way of thinking and being and those languages are still very much part of that as a living thing.
The following is a (tweaked) rough google translation of an article today in the online daily Irish news sheet TUAIRISC —
BARBARIANS AT THE GATES OF OUR UNIVERSITIES DETERMINED TO DESTROY LANGUAGES
By Alan Titley, Tuairisc, 11 Jan 2023
Gaelic speakers were taken aback when the UNIVERSITY OF ABERDEEN recently announced a plan to close all language departments.
At the end of November last year staff teaching languages at the University got warning of a plan to close all language departments. Needless to say this shocked them, especially when their language teaching and research ranks 12th highest in the UK, according to a survey by the Guardian last year.
It is not only languages as such that are to be closed down, but also related fields such as translation and interpretation. This despite having managed to raise £2 million in research money over the past few years, with a student winning the top research prize in last year’s Book of the Year competition in Scotland.
This seems to be part of a broader movement demoting languages and humanities at universities around the world. Languages in Queen’s University were threatened several years ago, and I fear only Irish and English remain subjects at the University of Ulster.
There was a mention of proposed change to Celtic Studies in Toronto that would be retrograde for the Irish language. And, it must be remembered, Languages and Humanities were not so prominent when the University of Limerick and Dublin City University were founded either. Of course, Aberdeen claim to be ‘international’ and ‘inclusive’ (with all the allure inherent in that latter word.)
If this barbaric policy were implemented Aberdeen would be the only established traditional university in the country without language teaching. And it is worth considering that Gaelic has been taught there since 1916, not to mention French and German since 1898, followed by other languages.
More ominously, there are only four universities in Scotland teaching Gaelic, so this would remove a quarter of provision. Furthermore, as is the case, there is a shortage of teachers of all languages in Scotland’s north-west, and this decision would worsen that. As usual, the arguments concern money, but let’s remember universities are only there for the benefit of the public in the first place.
This is detrimental for the cultural authorities here in Ireland also, since Irish and Gaelic are closely related, and eventually when Scotland gets its voice back on the world stage, we will be closer than since the 17th century.
https://tuairisc.ie/na-barbaraigh-ag-geatai-ar-n-ollscoileanna-agus-iad-meaite-ar-theangacha-a-scrios/
It is very sad Fearghas.
The bottom(ish) line is money as stated but the actual bottom line is interest – the students bring the money, not enough students, not enough money. So the bigger problem is the way society is downgrading the study of languages, and this is also a factor in schools where the problem starts. But also there is a kind of loop from the top in that there is no promotion or support, nurturing of this interest and the same may be said of parents.