Taking the biscuits
Posted on
October 04, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Sometimes I’m very serious –
link to derekbateman.co.uk
@Morag
It will be interesting to see how the SNP membership is spread out, in terms of the numbers in each constituency. Dumfries East seems to have expanded to over 200 (I think). I suppose the SNP will have to target seats in view of the membership numbers. Is this correct, or am I speaking bollocks?
To be honest after the unionists cheated Scotland out of a better future, I was not sure how things would pan out, but having read that Nicola Sturgeon is calling for Devo Max like we were promised by Gordon Brown and the three stooges Vow, and that the polls show that the majority of people want Devo Max including the oil and gas, things are looking on the up.
So basically David Cameron needs to come up with the goods, or else I cannot see why there would not be another referendum in the next few years for say, I don’t know, lets say something like, Devo Max including the oil and gas.
bugsbunny
Mark down Arran Oatcakes as the No variety, in fact their “works” van had big letters spelling NO on it for months leading up to the referendum
I have successfully stopped watching TV, only listening to Foreign Radio stations, and only buy the occasional Sunday Herald, no Tunnocks, Mackies, Asda, B+Q etc etc However I cannot give up on the Rolls the No supporting bakers make, think I will need to invest in a bread maker and make my own. 🙂
Smith commission has asked us plebs for our views. Sent them this email to help them out. Simples.
To: “haveyoursay@smith-commission.scot”
Subject: Powers for Scottish Parliament
Dear Lord Smith,
Very simple really.
1. Scottish Parliament to be permanently entrenched in constitution and indissoluble.
2. All powers fiscal and otherwise, with the exception of defence and foreign policy, to be under the control and executive power of the Scottish Parliament.
That’s what the unionist parties promised if there was a no vote. There was a no vote. So deliver on the promises.
Glad to make your job easy milord.
Best regards,
Craig Macinnes
It does make sense for NNS Scotland and Derek Bateman to join forces. I just hope pro-independence websites don’t get to similar, and duplicate each other too much.
Well done with the n.f.l detective work, what a clever bunch you lot are to work that out.
@Paula Rose:
Dunking in champagne, sparkling with grace.
Regarding your other message, being myself a journo, I must say I don’t envy the colleagues who work for big newspapers or TV. I feel much at ease in my ‘hole in the wall’ technical magazine with no stress from the constant run for the scoop, the splash or whatever. In the newspapers or TV teams, the motto is ‘dog eats dog’, and the chief editors constantly ensure that the orders from above are enforced.
Craig macinnes
Done with a few embellishments…
Asking Smith for FFA or Devo Max is shooting for the moon. We are dealing with Westminster here.
What we want, which is certain to lead to the break-up of the UK, is total control of social security. 75% of all Scots want that, England accounts for 95% of housing benefit and the “profits” of all the BuyToLet landlords, rUK pensioners last 3 years longer than ours and “cost” £15000 more. We can make a more Scotland suitable social security and save on a population basis of the rUK spend.
What do we want? Social Security When do we want it? Now
This meeting tomorrow in Ayr Town Hall is shaping up to be a biggie.
Dunno about other groups, but have been on the blower to SSP comrades, and we’re expecting to have as many turn up as we’d expect for a regular branch meeting.
Could be very very interesting – anyone planning on doing a livestream?
K1 says
“I’ve archived that tweet from murdo fraser, these people are truly showing thier colours…no veneers to disguise thier smears.”
I sent a strongly worded complaint to the parliament to demand sanctions are taken against Fraser for this revolting outburst!
Ian
I lasted two minutes into Danny Alexander speech. He was actually trying to come across all Presidential.
He looked like an utter eejit. You could tell he deliberately left his specs off and somebody must have told him to look straight at the camera to get your message across.
The trouble was he looked as if he couldn’t see the camera he was meant to be looking at because he didn’t have his specs on.
I think I turned it over to Beechgrove garden from Aberdeen. Far more exciting.
Muttley, bear in mind that there are several branches in each constituency. They come together for election purposes, each sending delegates to Constituency Association meetings.
If branches get too enormous they may be split, by setting up a new branch, perhaps in an adacent town. But they’ll all still contribute to the same CA.
I think seats will be targeted according to how winnable they are.
@caz-m –
Cheers mister. Now I’m going to have to see it, because the mental images conjured by your description are probably worse than the reality.
In decades to come, when our grand-weans ask us why we fought for independence, we’ll just have to show them a portrait of Danny Alexander – they’ll understand, no further explanation required.
( Morag honey – could you pop over to off-topic please doll)
Capella,
your posting credentials for WoS are stored in a cookie unless you are in Private Mode.
If you aren’t using Private mode, then there should be a cookie for Wingsoverscotland.com, and you can check that it exists. In Firefox, go to the Tools Menu at the top, and select Options. This opens a window with several Tabs, one is labelled Privacy. Click on that, and about two-thirds down there will be a phrase in blue saying “remove individual cookies”.
Click on that,
From a Panelbase online between 29 September and 1 October 2014 for the SNP, 1049 people:
Control of all areas of government policy except for defence and foreign affairs, which is sometimes referred to as ‘Devo Max’?:
Yes – 66% No – 19% DK- 15%
Eliminating DK gives YES 78%, and a poll on the even of the Ref showed 76%. Curtice analysis shows increasing rapidly since end July to the eve of poll.
One more from Sturgeon and the SNP via the Herald: “Sturgeon: Devo max will bring independence closer”
Hmmm, hitting Tab submits the post! Didn’t mean to do that.
Click on the remove individual cookies link to open a box with all the stored cookies in alphabetical order. Scroll down to where Wingsoverscotland.com should be. If it is there, it looks like a folder. If there, click on the little triangle to see the individual files. Clicking on any file in the folder will display the contents in the lower window, allowing you to check the credentials are present and correct.
This may help pin down the problem.
n f and l – very clever detective work, I tried and it didn’t appear.
@handclapping
Smith will do as he’s told by the parties at the commission, and from the consultees. The trick is to force the unionist parties to fully endorse devo-max or get egg on their face and voted out in 2015, bye bye and thanks for all the pish.
Doesn’st stop us trying to get them voted out anyway.
Biscuits and the taking of did not mean a free for all to discuss cookies did it?
One more from Sturgeon and the SNP via the Herald: “Sturgeon: Devo max will bring independence closer”
Are we sure? What if Westminster tries to fob us off that devo max is enough? I’m for indy, no more, no less. I want my Scottish passport! (And rid of those bl**dy UK Border signs at the airports.)
A propos Murdo Fraser
I think my tweet to him has disappeared.
I suggested he was more unwelcome in Scotland than the Pox.
Now’s the Hour
After Independence the rUK will still use the UK name.
They are delusional and will carry on regardless, as if nothing has happened.
They will will probably incorporate, Gallardia, Ruritanis and Elstree into the “Union”
Hey Handclapping
Aim for the moon and you just might hit the stars.
@Morag
Cheers. I am not sure what seats the SNP will target. I can see the Liberal Democrats vote plummeting, I think that is now a given. It depends to a large extent what the SLAB voters who voted Yes do. Would they vote SNP, or will the tribal element between SNP and Labour put them off?
@Ian Brotherhood
Next Livestream is the 12th according to the site but that might change. Have you contacted them as they might be in the dark as to your meet.
My case for YES putting its full weight behind Devo-Max.
1). If Smith doesn’t deliver that as its conclusion, 78% of Scotland won’t be pleased, they want Devo-Max.
2). If the uninionist parties don’t put their weight behind Smith, they antagonise 78% of Scotland. Try putting most of that 78%, say 50% into electoral calculus and you get 55 NAT, 4 LAB, or 3 LAB and 1 LIB for the 2015 GE.
3). If Westminster doesn’t deliver that hacks off 78% of Scotland who may well just think they’ll go for broke with Indy, 2015 election and 2016. Indy Ref 2 in 2016.
4). If Devo-Max is delivered, that will as Sturgeon says according to the Herald, render future “scaremongering” over Scotland’s capacity for self-government “risible”.
5). If Devo-Max is delivered, Scotland will be a lot further down the road to Indy, with real powers that can be used for good, but also increase confidence all over Scotland about our own abilities – and potential.
6). If Devo-Max is delivered, it leaves the rest of the UK unstable. They’d be crying for us to become Independent. I snuck that one in in the middle in case there are WM spies in our midst!
7). Finally, it puts us the 45% on the same side, shoulder to shoulder, against the beast of both worlds, as many of the 55% (about half) who weren’t with us – this time. Then we keep them with us for the next Indy Ref and it’s onwards and upwards.
Hi Morag
I’m a bit pessimistic too about our chances of getting the LibDems or Tories out as our local MP is Michael Moore, and the Tories were second in place to him at the last GE. However, that’s not going to stop us trying, and I will now never vote anything but SNP. Btw, I applaud your doggedness; it’s a very underrated quality which in my experience is invaluable in getting things done. 🙂
Re Fanny’s speech – I lasted 36 seconds before I had to go and vomit. Oh how I long for the day when he collects his P45.
@Craig macinnes says:
“Smith commission has asked us plebs for our views. Sent them this email to help them out. Simples.
To: “haveyoursay [at] smith-commission [dot] scot”
Subject: Powers for Scottish Parliament
Dear Lord Smith,
Very simple really.
1. Scottish Parliament to be permanently entrenched in constitution and indissoluble.
2. All powers fiscal and otherwise, with the exception of defence and foreign policy, to be under the control and executive power of the Scottish Parliament.
That’s what the unionist parties promised if there was a no vote. There was a no vote. So deliver on the promises.
==========
I suspect it all may be meaningless, because of this one line:
“The Commission’s remit effectively makes clear that it must arrive at a set of proposals that command cross-party support.”
However, if the vast majority of submissions are for devo-max, then the party proposing minimal change will look out of step with public opinion, and are more likely to suffer at the ballot box.
Smith Commission link
I see at the bottom of the submissions page there are certain guidelines.
We are keen to avoid a simple “shopping list” of further powers.
It looks more weighting will be given to submissions explaining WHY more powers are needed, plus the advantages or disadvantages of that for Scotland or the UK.
I suppose a very relevant point is that 45% of Scots voted for FULL INDEPENDENCE, and if we don’t get significant new powers – devo-max or federalism as Brown promised – then the disadvantage for the UK is that will be huge demand for a new referendum to end it for good !!
Great to see the author and political campaigner Naomi Wolf is coming to Scotland to highlight the corruption that happened in the Postal Vote .
Having such a great fighter against the illegal manipulations of the Establishment/Governments on the side of those that know there was corruption in the Postal Vote but have been vilified and abused by the media/establishment/certain posters on this site,is a confirmation of the saying “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men/women to do nothing”.
Hopefully through Naomi doing something the triumph of evil will be halted.
Now’s the Hour
Lallans Peat Warrior has a point in an article, that one thing the SG should go for is the definitive right to hold a referendum. I agree, and perhaps that could be thrown in once they get the unionist parties on the run in the Smth Commission meeting “by the way …”.
Thing is, even with toally full-blooded Devo-Max, there’s still Defence and Foreign Relations reserved by Westminster for which we’d pay a whack. That includes:
1). Trident at Faslane
2). Wars and overseas adventures “meet nice people and bomb them”.
3). The EU, with the farming CAP convergence uplift from the EU being split 4 ways instead of being given totally to Scotland where it belonged.
4). The EU, with regional aid traded off for rebates.
5). The UK coming out of the EU!
6). Brand Scotland not really existing, with Brand UK – Britain – England – London – being paraded all over the world to the detriment of the rest of us.
7). More making London the hub of the UK as Cameron promised.
8-100). Probably!
Anybody who thinks that the British state is going to give us Devo max, in return for a No vote, is living in a dream world, and a bad one at that. It is not going to happen. However, since they promised it, Darling, Brown etc, then that is what we argue for at the moment. When it does not happen, and this is what will happen, we tell the unionists that they have betrayed Scotland (once again, which in fact they have). As they have again conned the people of Scotland, we give them the metaphorical fingers and hand gestures, and bring the threat of a referendum back onto the agenda.
However, we have to be extremely careful with the timing. We will only get one other chance now, and have to time it when support for independence is at its highest level, much higher than it is today.
@Xaracen
I’m not in private mode. There was a Wingsoverscotland cookie. But it doesn’t make any difference. I’ve removed it and will try again posting this comment in Firefox. Maybe the last cookie was corrupted? Here goes 22.14
Now’s the Hour says:
5 October, 2014 at 10:02 pm
Re Fanny’s speech – I lasted 36 seconds before I had to go and vomit. Oh how I long for the day when he collects his P45.
Quite appropriate a something 45 from the 45%
Now’s the Hour says:
5 October, 2014 at 10:02 pm
Re Fanny’s speech – I lasted 36 seconds before I had to go and vomit. Oh how I long for the day when he collects his P45.
Quite appropriate a something 45 from the 45%
I did’t do that double post, although I changed from notebook to IPad.
Weird????
@Xaracen
Well I refreshed the last page but my post didn’t appear. So I opened a new tab and got Wings up again and my post is there. However, my username and email are not in the reply boxes.
Refreshing the old tab doesn’t work. I have to reopen Wings in a new tab to see my post (and any others posted). Bizarre!
Here is Danny doing his thing today. As noted earlier, the camera does not shift from the podium.
As caz-m also pointed out, the spec-less DA struggles to locate the precise location of the camera via which he wants to speak ‘directly’ to the many millions watching:
link to youtube.com
Muttley
I think your analysis is spot on. Devo Max or whatever it ends up being called is not something I want. Its only relevance is that we have something to beat them up with when it is not delivered. The risk to our side is that they do deliver something, however insignificant, and then claim that they have delivered “Devo Max” or “Home Rule” or whatever. That is why those of us who support the only realistic option for Scotland, independence, must get them to define whatever it is going to be, building on the “promises” they have already made, and then give them hell when they fail to deliver it.
The good news from our perspective is that all the signs are that the deal is going to unravel. So I am actually quite pleased when I see Cameron linking delivery of the “Vow” to the English question. I’m quite happy to see the timetable slipping. The more trouble they get into the better and the sooner we will get another referendum. But you are right when you say that is must not be too soon – we need the people to be clammering for a referendum and then hold it.
Can we get some guidance here – are we discussing biscuits that are baked, cookies that are something to do with computers, or some sort of free for all? I still have my recipe for madeleines to share.
PS. It’s had 48 views already.
Also note the extraordinary claims made at 4 mins 55 secs.
The guy is off his fucking head.
@yesindyref2
Your 4,5 and 6th points are not applicable in your post at 9:54. We are not going to get Devo max, as it is correctly defined. There is no chance of this. Nor is there a chance of another independence referendum in 2016, that is less than 2 years away. We lost largely because of the MSM, particularly the BBC. They are not going to be weakened enough in less than 2 years to ensure we win. Also, we need to play the exhausting the Devo max option in front of the Scottish electorate game before. Do not be surprised if the SNP go into the 2016 elections with a manifesto pledge to hold a consultative referendum on Devo max. They will define it properly. If Westminster rejects the referendum, and refuses to allow it to be held (which is the most likely scenario), then everyone in Scotland will know that independence is the only feasible option left. This includes even the most low information voters in Scotland.
muttley79
All the MORE reason for the 45% YES Indy supporters to get behind it, and join the 33% NO Devo-Max supporters to demand it.
Then, at last, 78% of the electorate of Scotland is on the same side, not fighting wiuh each other. Indy Ref 2 please, thank you.
Can we get back to biscuits – so much unfinished business.
Paula Rose,
Your famous madeleines’ recipe!
Well go on share it and stop being a tease.
@Onwards
“The Commission’s remit effectively makes clear that it must arrive at a set of proposals that command cross-party support.”
Which is why we must point out that in a democracy the people make the choice not political parties and as such 45% of the political represention needs to be on that basis otherwise it makes a mockery that the UK is any way democratic.
@Paula Rose
Plain chocolate digestives finished off with a Penguin dark chocolate.
The Commission’s remit effectively makes clear that it must arrive at a set of proposals that command cross-party support.”
Has it escaped the poor Lord’s notice the ‘cross-parties’ currently are not elected to govern Scotland?
@Paula Rose
I imagine the royal family prefer German biscuits while the Liberals are more of a flapjack. Personally, I don’t like biscuits so caramel wafers leave me cold and I don’t recall ever eating a tea cake.
I would suggest fly cemeteries the perfect patisserie for unionist pols.
Have just finished watching Danny Alexander’s speech.
There are no words…
Can anyone in the Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey constituency please provide one good reason why any of your family, friends or neighbours voted for this character? (Have you ever met anyone who admitted to voting for him?)
It doesn’t even have to be a ‘good’ reason. Any reason at all will be gratefully received.
@ Ian Brotherhood
I don’t live in the area but hearsay is that his dad is well liked and I think he did work for the Cairngorms National Park Authority doing some sort of PR thing so probably networked assiduously.
Ian: Here is Danny doing his thing today.
The dolt has absolutely NO mandate to govern Scotland in any manner or context whatsoever.
How many No’s questioned his existence as an ‘official’ post?
Ian B
sorry could only watch a minute and half – and he is supposedly the next leader of the Lib Dems.
They are in trouble indeed if he is their best candidate.
If he loses Inverness then I suppose he could always pick up a safe Lib Dem seat in England – except there are none!?
and lets face it, you don’t have to have any qualification to be a Liberal pol except “face aw roon”. I haven’t met many but those I have met are the most principle free individuals on earth. They simply agree with whoever it is they happen to be talking to. Then decide in secret according to instructions from HQ.
@yesindyref2
Yes, we will demand it. However, we know we will not get it. But we cannot just bring on another independence referendum. We will only get another chance, if we are lucky. It cannot be gone into lightly, as we have to be as sure as possible that we are going to win this time.
That is why I can see the SNP going into 2016 elections pledging to hold a referendum on Devo max. The UK government will almost certainly block this. Before they do, we define Devo max correctly, so that the voters here, and the likes of Lindsay McIntosh, Paul Hutcheon, and BBC Scotland, have no excuse not to keep pleading ignorance of what it means. This means defining it, and coming up with a question, so that is can be publicised by the same MSM who claim not to know what it means. After the UK government reject it, we then say we have tried all avenues for further devolution, and they have been thwarted by an intransigent British establishment, and then the independence referendum is back on the agenda.
For starters – Abernethy, Pitcaithly bannocks, Bere biscuits, Orkney sheldons, Harris hobs, Tweed wafers, Reekie tatties and Perth diamonds.
@ Paula Rose
Prefer a scone any day. Scotland is known as “the land of cakes” and also obesity, diabetes and heart disease! Let’s focus on the healthy options. Malt whisky and oatcakes.
Like the Rev said, Scotland wants Independence, as long as you don’t call it Independence.
Capella honey – did you ever see a play called “Land of Cakes” at the Dundee Rep?
@Paula Rose
Hob Nobs that is what Labour aspire to become. I was tempted to link Abernethy, Ginger Nuts and Turkish Delight but refrained to save your blushes.
yesindyref2
Thanks for your post. I don’t believe we will ever see the devo-max promised but were we to achieve it, it’s a much smaller leap for the electorate to jump to full independence. Having said that, with all the seperate institutions we have at the moment the leap the electorate had to make was not so enormous anyway. Or not as enormous as it could have been.
I always thought we would have been able to exploit this fact more than we did. If, for example we had to seperate our legal system, education system and health service the unionists would have hammered us in much the same way as they did with the currency. As it turned out though the seperate institutions didn’t seem to work particularly in our favour. They were fairly neutral.
So I have come full circle and think this smaller leap from Devo-max to indy would still be depicted as a chasm.
Broadcasting is the key – thats why we won’t get it.
One issue that really interests me in all this is the leadership of Yes. This should in my view have been broader – a better term than a council of Yes but a group of maybe six or seven who could shoulder responsibility equally and avoid the ‘I hate Alex Salmond’ shite.
Much as I love Nicola Sturgeon, watch as she is demonised as Alex was. If we had leaders of SSP, SNP, Scottish Green Party, a competent and inspirational Yes coordinator (Robin McAlpine?) Ivan McKee for example from Business for Scotland, Jeanne Freeman and Dennis C meeting regularly in public meetings and press conferences we may be able to head this same situation off at the pass.
Just my thoughts (and what do I know!) – I’m sure there are plans afoot for a different joint approach.
Paula Roae,
Stop changing the subject we’re waiting for the madeleines recipe.
Capella,
I like your definition of a healthy diet! One that I could definitely agree with.
@ Paula Rose
No I never saw that play. Sounds good. Maybe when we have our own media we can broadcast plays, stories, books and everything that we can’t hear at the moment.
Tell us about it.
Ian
Danny Alexander says he will de-centralise power at Holyrood and give more powers to places like the Shetlands.
How does he plan to alter the way Holyrood is run?
The guy is a moron.
Add to that, his side kick Carmicheal telling Nicola Sturgeon to forget any thoughts she had on having another Referendum in the near future.
Who do these clowns think they are?
Have just tested the n f l theory and am waiting for the result.
Willie Rennie’s speech.
It’s had 19 views.
So far.
No footage of audience, but Hamish Wool’s Acme Clapometer suggests 120 maximum (awake at any rate)…
link to youtube.com
muttley79
I’m hoping the SNP already hae Devo-Max fully defined, and will present it to the Smith Commission. Ironically by saying that Federalism and Devo-Max weren’t on the Smith agenda, Ruth Davidson has actually put them there – that’s the way it works. She made a mistake there, yippeeee.
Of interest is that Swinney presents his first tax budget this week for 2015-2016, which includes the first use of the Scotland Act 2012 pile of mush. Bearing in mind Labour’s offering last July which is just more of the same, I’m hoping it will show not just how limited that is, but that it actually costs us money for Revenue Scotland – for nothing.
That would make it a win – win – win for Smith. First if Devo-Max is delivered, then fine as above. Second if virtually nothing, then anger and discontent from those of the 55% who voted NO for Devo-Max, there was one this morning who replied to one of my posts in the Herald.
The third and more difficult is if Smith delivers a set of powers that cause damage, but look fine. That’s more diffcult to argue against.
Ultimately, don’t forget, the Scottish Government does not have to sign off on any change of the Scotland Act. If they refused to, that would cause a Constitutional crisis.
Ian Brotherhood
i won’t watch it then in case the libs get excited.
🙂
muttley79,
“It does make sense for NNS Scotland and Derek Bateman to join forces.”
Does it?
Derek Bateman is a BBC apologist.
NNS is a BBC hater (rightly so).
Will be interesting to see.
Danny Alexander thinks he is a Treasury minister earning about £135,000 a year and his children get about £8,500 a year in travelling expenses. (this was a newspaper headline which I can’t locate at the moment). If you were earning that you might step up and argue your case?
Our job (since the MSM have abandoned the field) is to provide the analysis.
yesindyref2
… and if that doesn’t work, can we no just occupy public buildings including the parliament and start just doing it. The romantic in me wants to man the barricades.
I am mindful of comments made by a naval officer to my mate on the eve of the referendum. When asked what would happen if there was a Yes, this upper class officer declared one word: ‘Armageddon’. A threat suggesting all was in place to secure the ‘deterrant’ or at least that was what I have been led to believe.
We will never know their plan but if they would not hesitate to use force to control the situation it seems naive to ignore the reality of our subjugation.
Anyway – I am talking to myself and need to address this pint of Innis & Gunn instead. Goodnight.
Bawheid Bragg @8.13pm
I used to buy the Dunfermine Press on a regular basis until one day they had full page advert for Better Together and that along with the continual slagging off of the Scottish Goverment by Hilton and Docherty in their weekly slots without the SG having any right to respond resulted in me no longer buying it.
I didn’t vote for either of them, but I did use my second vote for the Independent, but his comments with regards why he sided with Labour to give them control of Fife Council made me regret it right away.
I decided from that day on that my second vote in any Council elections would be for the Scottish Greens.
The sooner we get rid of Labour out of Fife the better.
Tam: I think what you describe is what we did have. Ditto the demonization of the obvious figurehead by the media. We can’t change the latter, but we can try to build an alternative media and build on the foundations created. That, and the likely failure of the Nos to deliver meaningful powers to the Scottish Parliament will help drive us forward. Crucial, is maintaining some form of Yes Alliance and the activity of those who have energised the campaign. The SNP hold the cards in this regard. How they play it will determine the future success of the campaign.
On an O/T note, I noticed that Aberdeenshire Council has a by-election in Troup arising from the death of a Tory councillor in a ward where the first councillor elected was SNP. Given the role of that council in using the recent electoral registration campaign to target poll tax non-payers, this could be interesting.
@Rock
I think you will find that Derek has had his eyes opened but still has friends within that organisation so plays the canny watcher to our advantage.
Extract from e-mail just received:
‘Pretty much everyone in Yes Highland is raring to go again. Lochaber, in particular, as we were Yes positive. The next objective will be un-seating Danny Alexander and Charles Kennedy one of which is a dead cert and the other a possibility.’
Hmm, I wonder which is which?
Any idea, Danny?
David Stevenson
Your first sentence is the only one I would disagree with. Ok – we had in my guesstimate order of visibility: Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, Blair Jenkins (not sure where he places), Patrick Harvie, Tommy Sheridan, Dennis Canavan, Colin Fox, and a number of others inc Jeanne, Pat Kate, Elaine C Smith, Kat Boyd, Iain Macwhirter and of course the Cybernat Controller overseeing it all.
But we couldn’t get away from the back of a fag packet order I have just arbitrarily given them. In the Yes campaign the head was actually Blair Jenkins with Dennis Canavan as chairman.
There is a structural problem – one the No side struggled with as well as illustrated by Gordon Brown.
What I am saying is that the strength of Yes was the grassroots movement but a more formal structure and one that was hammered home by joint public meetings and press conferences could be more acceptable to the type of voter that thinks of Yes as a bunch of renegade dreamers. And we never, despite the talent of the team got away from being a movement led by Alex Salmond. And we need to appeal to a broader base.
Evening, anyone else seen these Turnnocks wafers for sale, loose, in clear packaging at the shops.. maybe they’re feeling the pinch (they’ve got the same name / address printed on the bags?).
Hey muttley79, what you say yeah, that makes good sense. Redefining what Devo max is commonly understood to be (in full) and offering it to the people of Scotland for sure, nice one.
Here’s a song by the band that gave us ‘Magic’. In a way, Devo max could also be looked upon as..
Steps (along the way) ~ by Pilot
link to youtube.com
It was more a comment that the media did a HELL of a lot more to win the referendum than the Liberal Bleeding Democrats did. 😀
Rock
Derek Bateman has many supporters on this page . He is a YES voter and one of the few established journo’s that helped the cause.
You have mentioned him more than once in your fashion. You don’t like him fine , but he is one of us. Less of the digs please.
Ian B, Yep, we are up for the fight here in Inverness. Haved moved the Yes shop to bigger premises, volunteers sorted out for manning it. Common weal Inv set up and Robin coming up later this month to launch. Inverness is another Yes city, like our bigger sisters, Glasgow and Dundee. Onwards
The majority of people in Scotland preferred devo max which Cameron would not even allow on the referendum voting slip, to spite Alex Salmond.
To gain the majority support of the electorate requires DEVO max (all government controls bar defence & foreign policy).
That is the minimum acceptable offer IMHO. Anything less will lead us down a winding path that I do not want to go down and take us to a place I do not want to be.
Independence WILL come of that I have no doubt and sooner rather than later. What taste is left in the mouth is another qustion.
Remember your duties for tomorrow and every other day.
Cancel your Labour Party membership.
Cancel your BBC TV License.
Cancel your Daily Record newspaper.
The political Holy Trinity of Scotland.
We defeat these three organisations, we win Independence.
If you have already done all of the above, then it is your duty to persuade someone who hasn’t.
Join a Pro-Indy Party tomorrow.
Vote SNP 2015. YES ALLIANCE.
Alan Mackintosh
I understand Common Weal have launched a Common Weal Leith division which sounds quite groovy. Only trouble is it appears to require a citizen to be part of the great beast that is facebook, something I have resisted from the start.
To be honest, I need something that demands me to spend more time on my Samsung like I need a hole I the head but maybe now is the time.
Cactus
Guid to see yer post. Lets do a central belt wings congress soon brother. I have zoned out of off topic since the 18th but will try to re-engage soon
Caz m
Like your focus. Keep it simple. For simpletons like me anyway.
Have been reading and listening to Derek Bateman for a while now and there is absolutely no questioning of his commitment to the cause in my mind.
Ian
This video is of Tommy Sheridan and the crowd, tearing Willie Rennie to bits during a debate in Dunfermline a couple of months ago.
X Rated stuff. Brilliant,
link to youtube.com
Tam: we need to appeal to a broader base.
‘We’ did.
A good number hesitated at the last minute and voted No.
Great News Alan Mackintosh.
The grass roots are there just needing a wee bit organising and many i spoke too say they will work even harder for the GE. They worked their socks off .
We need to get information pooled and as mentioned above with tam J. the SNP with all those newbies could co-ordinate things. Kicking Labour out of Scotland would be the biggest step on the road to indi.
Too many of us are hanging about waiting for something to happen. We have very little time . I can’t do much but am ready for anything .
We need a plan for Wings too. Stu has carried us for so long and we are reaching more folk every day. How can we make Wings better and who can help us. Crowd funding is a dawdel here so Stu could think even bigger. Or a change of tactics.
Ps. I couldny organise a piss up in a brewery but i am willing to help
Rock: Derek Bateman is a BBC apologist.
He can be too often respectful, but your assessment is harsh.
Even Salmond said of the BBC, ‘They know not what they do.’
Or maybe that was Jesus.
Tam Jardine
Something like that, though I think a big peaceful demo would do that job nicely. Maybe a Calton Hill Vigil.
I see the next Referendum campaign as being a short one. This one needed to be long to get past the indoctrination, the media bias and get people to mistrust media, and the confidence. Support shot up from 25-28% to 45%.
I also suspect that people don’t get taken in by the media as much as we think they do. 47% of the 55% NO voters (accordng to Ashcroft) voted NO because they were worried about some aspect, but that doesn’t mean they actually believed the scare stories, it might mean they were just not confident enough either way on the day. Mortgages is a big example of that – they didn’t know, so took no chances. Literally!
We have a difficulty removing Alan Reid in Argyll and Bute . He is completely invisible much of the time which makes targetting him very difficult indeed
Can someone please confirm for me, preferably with a link, how the Scotland Office is funded. My understanding is it comes out of the SG block grant but I have been trying different keyword web searches for nearly an hour and can’t find out.
Please help. Thanks in advance.
According to a tweet on the SNP website from Kevin Pringle “Westminster takes another step to the European exit door: “Lib Dems ready to end opposition to #EU”.
Which would make 2017 the date for Indy Ref 2, if not sooner, if Scotland voted to stay in, and the rUK out.
I have know doubt its not a question of if ,Its when we get independence.
I think a certain element in this country will try and make this into some sort of nasty N Ireland troubles when we get independence.
Very disturbing stuff i have been listening to, A football clubs[unofficial] fans radio station and the stuff there coming out with is quite frankly shocking.
Salmond is being associated with sinn fein,Yes supporters are some how associated with Irish republicans you cant make this sh*t up .
When we get independence we are in for a rough ride from the unionists make no mistake.
I will not name the club just google [club name] chat.
Very frustrating listening to people that support the same club as you who cant see past the whole unionst nonsense
I would go as far as saying they dont give a sh*t about the country[Scotland] as long as the union is maintained no matter what.
Grouse Beater
Cmon, hero of mine – I’ve been posting my ramblings all day and I need a wee bit more love than that. We lost, I get that. With the better campaign and truth, morality and a shit load of effort by so many good people on our side, we lost.
I am embarrassed by how little I contributed and wished I had done more than I did bit we lost.
I am trying to figure out how we can do better next time. I won’t repost but do you not think Yes’ leadership could have been positioned in the way I suggest? And if we don’t need to appeal to a broader base then the only way to win is to galvanise support in the areas it was already strong and that is something that may be a harder task.
Fuck – the 2 groups we specifically didn’t appeal to were the comfortable, non intelligentsia middle class and the elderly and we must at least try and address that before we can take another shot at this.
I’m still finding hugely amusing the bleats of people who think the British state can’t be trusted on anything.. except for running a referendum on the loss of a nation they are desperate to keep, where apparently their probity is unquestionable, and the British state is beyond reproach.
Lol, as they say.
It is not in the interests of the United States
for rUK to lose Trident nuclear capability.
Nor for rUK to be formally declared bankrupt.
Nor for the rUK army, navy and air force to be minimilised
because rUK is skint.
Without Scotland’s oil, rUK is of no use to the US.
Therefore, it is not in the interests of the US that
Scotland be independent or even be fiscally autonomous.
People, we’re dealing with two greedy bullies.
That’s better !
It’s a little more even now.
I’ve just endured a few snippets of the Danny Alexander speech. If you were just listening to it, without being able to see him or know who was speaking, you’d never think he was Scottish, would you?
I vaguely remember comments before that he had lost his accent, which is unusual in an adult. Has he done it deliberately?
I have know doubt its not a question of if ,Its when we get independence.
I think a certain element in this country will try and make this into some sort of nasty N Ireland troubles when we get independence.
Very disturbing stuff i have been listening to, A football clubs fans radio station and the stuff there coming out with is quite frankly shocking.
Salmond is being associated with sinn fein,Yes supporters are some how associated with Irish republicans you cant make this sh*t up .
When we get independence we are in for a rough ride from the unionists make no mistake.
I will not name the club just google [club name] chat.
Very frustrating listening to people that support the same club as you who cant see past the whole unionst nonsense
I would go as far as saying they dont give a sh*t about the country as long as the union is maintained no matter what.
Hi Graeme
Keep up the good work.
Will be at Rally on Sunday in George Sq.
Ayr Town Hall, 7.00 pm, Monday night (today) – let’s keep on-song – let’s keep together – Neil Sedaka got it right. 🙂
Sue Varley
I think the Scotland Office comes under Identifiable Scottish Expenditure in GERS, not sure though. It doesn’t come out of the block grant, I’m fairly sure of that. Otherwise we could sack Alistair!
Cheers Tam Jardine ~ good idea dude, let’s get the crowd together for another shindig soon.. we’ve got a lot to talk about, we’ve all got work to do.
A special thanks to my home city of Glasgow for voting a majority yes and to every other Scottish citizen who did alike.. you’re so cool for home rule 🙂
I’ve had a look at the calendar.. who’s up for a meet up on Saturday the 18th October (central belt)? Answers on a post-card to off-topic.
An interesting document about GEs 1945 – 2003.
link to parliament.uk
Page 33 shows the SNP candidates / MPs / saved deposits / % share
If anyone wants to send a message to Curtice that we’re onto his game and have him sussed out, visit
link to blog.whatscotlandthinks.org
and, errr, cough, upvote dadsarmy at the top 🙂
Time to get it right up them.
Oh, a short one-line reply along the lines of “Wow, that would just about wipe out Labour in Scotland” would be much appreciated.
Time perhaps to get my industrial strength steel-toed boots in action.
I live in an indy Scotland.
The tv was binned 1969 so i do not get the British digital bunting or relentless perception manipulation to suit whichever corporate/elitist agenda is currently priority.
This is my second vote for an indy Scotland i have had a dream which i will not see in my lifetime crushed again.
Alex said before the campaign *we are up against powerful forces* GCHQ,MI5,Mi6,CIA, global elite are impotent unless they have control over MSM.
Get it?
Scotland…..Needs a television voice into my room telling me the truth.
I might even go down to the local tip and pick up a 4k tv thrown out after the indyvote……….
It was the Pultenay link to oldpulteney.com.
Would EU membership come under Foreign Affairs in the “Devo Max = all but defence and foreign affairs” line of thought?
Of course if it does start looking like Scotland wants to keep ties with the EU while London wants to break them the BBC and other main stream media outlets will be there to tell us why it is in our best interests to go with them.
Not least of which I assume will be “don’t break the Union”.
@One_Scot
Like the Rev said, Scotland wants Independence, as long as you don’t call it Independence.
=====
I always thought the referendum question should have been about sovereignty.
eg ‘Should Scotland be a sovereign nation state?’
To some people, the word ‘independent’ implies ‘completely separate’.
When we would still have had plenty of common links.. with the intention to keep the pound, stay in Europe, Nato, etc
Sovereignty is about political power – it’s hard to argue that Scotland shouldn’t have power.
muttley79 says
@ 10:25pm
Best post on this thread.
capella says
“I would suggest fly cemeteries the perfect patisserie for unionist pols.”
Whoa that’s scary, I was just pondering dead fly cemetaries or snowballs to take to work just before I read your post, spooky. 🙂
Tam Jardine says
” If we had leaders of SSP, SNP, Scottish Green Party, a competent and inspirational Yes coordinator (Robin McAlpine?) Ivan McKee for example from Business for Scotland, Jeanne Freeman and Dennis C meeting regularly in public meetings and press conferences we may be able to head this same situation off at the pass.”
Wow that lot would put a frothy head on your coffee,
Now I would walk over broken glass in bare feet to listen that line up, having taken the appropriate dosage of tranquillisers first. 🙂
Ian Brotherhood says
“No footage of audience, but Hamish Wool’s Acme Clapometer suggests 120 maximum (awake at any rate)…”
What?
like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
Dammit Ian is there no way to archive those
clips to avoid giving those clowns an idea someone likes them?
I read that damnable Dunfermline Press “JACKANORY STORY” about Hilton and Doherty attempting to lay the blame on the SG for the closure of Pitcorthie school when it was clear she herself voted to close it when she was at her correct level of responsibility. (councillor)
But when you look at the comments you see a very different story, no one but no one believes them ,the comments were universally critical of their pitiful attempts to lay the blame on the SNP, I sincerely hope the Dunfermline Press is punished savagely for reporting this palpable nonsense as fact!
Rock
Derek Bateman loves the BBC’s principals, or at least their founding priciples.
What he does not love is the betrayal of that, the people who did it and what it has become.
He still has many friends and enemies within the BBC.
The enemies are not backwards at coming forwards, or at least their proxies are. There is a dirty whispering campaign going on against him.
Principles not whatever came up.
De – stabilised? Regime change?Words that have been applied to Yemen ,Egypt,Libya and Ukraine.
I know I am a slow learner but I have just realised that that is precisely what has been done to my country.
Every favour called in by the Westminster /big business/self interested elite.
The moronic minnows of Holyrood have had their hatred of the SNP fed by their “ big brother”
The media in full swing denigrating the First Minster /the SNP /the YES campaign supporters.
Labelling the likes of Sir Sean Connery as a tax dodging supporter of independence who doesn’t live in Scotland while ignoring the BPs , Shell and many other corporations who enjoy BIG employer status.
I have listened and read gross vilification of the First Minister of Scotland and been disgusted by the journalists involved aiding and abetting the visceral hatred of one man – I’ll mention the three ” C’s” in passing Cochrane , Carrell and Crichton.
To my horror , I realise they have already started on the Lady in Waiting , the more than able Miss Sturgeon.
And now that I am alert to their ploys how do I defend her and the SNP?
It strikes me that the establishment are merrily attempting to destroy them with the help of many a deceitful , self interested journalist and business.
What can I do against this machine which would rather see division than Scotland use her own assets for the benefit of her own people? What does it take to wake up the people to the devious , greedy and disinterested?
And when Scotland is asset stripped and her children and grandchildren conscripted into illegal wars to kill or be killed , or poisoned by radio active waste belched from our “top table “ WMDs or emigrating to find employment will there be some journalist publishing a confession , “Scotland : My Part in her Downfall”?
Somebody ,somewhere will be buying up businesses and properties for a song – will they be lauded as community leaders entitled to tell their workforce how to vote ? Threaten their liveliehoods to coerce them into staying within the parameters dictated by the few?
What comes next should Scots not bow to the “establishment”?
If Scots choose to vote SNP throughout the country, what then?
Will division be encouraged by the media of Scotland – the BBBC et al?
Will they use their dupes in the Orange Order , the BNP ,EDL Red hand of Ulster to create disruption , unrest and ultimately civil war?
Will the proud journalists claim success for their masters then?
“Scotland don’t leave us ! You shower of fat, deep fried mars bar munching ,anti English scroungers”
De stabilisation? Regime change ? Coming to a place near you thanks to the BBBC, STV ,Scottish newspaper owners and journalists not forgetting the Lib/Lab/Con and their “spite and shite” brigade – epitomised by the Holyrood leaders of the Labour Party ,Conservative Party , the so called Liberal Party and of course the unchallenged and proudly boasted “ PROJECT FEAR”.
Dorothy Devine
The George Square riot by the OO was a message to us from way further up the foodchain.
Who ran the Proddy murder gangs, gave them targets, gave them intel?
Had there been a Yes who is to say that this was the real response in George Square and a taste of the downward spiral into military intervention, just like N Irn.
There are some very evil bastards in the Whitehall establishment who would willingly have a rerun on N Ireland. Maybe that was part of the plan all along, N Ireland was the template?
Do I believe all this conspiracy stuff?
Maybe no, maybe yes, but what is evident there is more that a bit of seredipity in the events in the Press, BBC and George Square.
They need to plunder our riches and resources to survive.
That is the way the Empire was always run.
Week 4 in this jolly old union. Here in England, Scotland long forgotten or is it…
link to archive.today
“But in the coming bust-up between Madrid and Barcelona, there are crucial differences with Scotland. Unlike Scotland, Catalonia is a big net contributor of taxes to the centre: in an average year, 8% of the region’s GDP flows in taxes to the rest of Spain, costing Catalans an estimated €2,055 (£1,610) each in 2011 (central government does not regularly publish the figures”
Back to scrounger region. Fact is, if Scotland had not bottled it, UK.gov and dudes like this shill would now be pleading for currency union as UK debt and deficit costs dragged rTeamGB under.
Never forget. Never forgive.
Dorothy Devine @07:24am
I wouldnt worry too much. Now that people are waking up thanks to the British state over playing itself to keep Scotland the more lies they spin means more damage to them.
Democracy needs an aware, enabled electorate who think critically in order to be worth anything. That is what is happening in Scotland.
All each of us has to do is become aware of the facts and have at hand the best sources and be able to argue point for point with others in our social circles and in the broader world.
Truth is truth and once a liar has been found for what they are then they will not fool the majority again.
The British state and its media and business arms damn near killed themselves holding onto Scotland and i think the wounds to them will be ultimately fatal.
Dorothy: Labelling the likes of Sir Sean Connery as a tax dodging supporter of independence who doesn’t live in Scotland while ignoring the BPs, Shell and many other corporations who enjoy BIG employer status.
For movie work the studios tax at source as a matter of legal habit. Connery placed £5 million into his Arts and Education Trust for Scotland.
‘Seanorry – Warts and All’ – grousebeater.wordpress
The enemies of democracy are happy to crap on anybody or any country that thinks Scotland is a mature nation. We have to hammer home how these people detest the democratic process and will subvert it on any excuse.
@YESGUY says: 6 October, 2014 at 12:17 am:
“The grass roots are there just needing a wee bit organising and many i spoke too say they will work even harder for the GE. They worked their socks off.
Everyone is fine with that, YESGUY, but you also made this point. “Kicking Labour out of Scotland would be the biggest step on the road to indi.
One of the greater factors in coming so close to winning our freedom was, “Labour for Indy” and that may be an better solution. It does indeed hold a great deal more merit. No matter what else happens after independence is we need a healthy spread of political parties in a free and independent Scotland.
We old folks remember when Labour were true to their original roots and were indeed lifting the workers out of what was little better than slavery. Labour then were doing other wonderful things like beginning the NHS. We cannot, in any way, recognize the modern Labour party as that party. Labour now being closer than before to the Westminster Tory, Lib-Dem or UKIP parties. The thing is that we in Scotland do see such old Labour values in such as the SSP and Labour for Indy.
I have no wish to end-up with a Scotland that has only the one big political party. If the once great Labour Party can become so close to the Tories as to be only distinguishable by their name then who could guarantee that an all powerful SNP could not go the same way?
I thus see the way forward as being the conversion of existing London Labour Members into Scottish Labour For Indy members and thus restoration that party into a real Scottish Labour Party totally free of London Labour forever. We then end up with two strong Scottish political parties and healthy opposition to both. No doubt a more right wing Scottish party would also emerge then too, for Scots aren’t all socialists.
Tam: With the better campaign and truth, morality and a shit load of effort by so many good people on our side, we lost.
I doubt it. We were cheated, which is a different thing.
Think how many No’s must feel now? Now the fog has cleared there’s nothing there.
Those cheated tend to want redress. In this case the fraudulant opposition painted themselves into a corner; they got scared at the eleventh hour and offered a gift they need not have given. Now they are forced to cobble something together. There’s no goodwill behind it.
And you shouldn’t feel you did too little. In any normal plebiscite we only need to debate and to vote. How were you to know many a Yes voter was thinking over the last minute bribe as they walked to the polling booth and then voted No?
Does anyone know if YES Scotland have officially finished up or not?.
Are they no-more, is the parrot dead?
Re: By-election – Troup
I read about this in the Evening Express last week.
Apparently the votes won’t be counted straight after the event but next day.
Is this usual practice in by-elections?
Sounds a bit dodgy to me…
If course revenues flow into the UK Exchequer from Scotland but ‘journalists’ in the UK prefer to lie about it. Plus Scotland can’t decide how the revenues raised in Scotland are spent, unlike Catalonia. £1,5Billion on Trident/illegal wars and redundant weaponry. £1.5Billion could be save in Scotland on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. Etc
Eg Scotland raises £60Billion. Rest of the UK raises £560Billion. The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion. Scotland has to pay £4Billion in interest charges on money it doesn’t borrow or spend. Along with the money Westminster spends on Scotland’s ‘behalf’ £10Billion+ Scotland is losing £15Billion, it has no control over.
Catalonia is the equivalent of London S/E. The recession in Spain was made worse by the excessive house building on the Costas – holiday homes – financed by excessive lending by the London lending Markets..
Scotland and Catalonia Independence is quite different. Different history etc. Franco bombed the Basques in the Spanish Civil War but kept Spain out of the 11WW. Spain has only been a Constitutional monarchy since 1975. Scotland is a country. Etc.
Aye Robert, we need a Labour Party that stands up for Scotland not one that is part of the elite hegemony that the neoliberal Westminster consensus has become.
Yes2indyref – thanks.
David – I must know the wrong people – the only people who will discuss the result are committed Yes voters. No voters just dismiss it in the same way they did before the vote. I keep hearing about this politically aware and engaged electorate, but I don’t see them.
I really worry that the “silent majority” have just gone back into their silence ready to sabotage our fair, democratic country-to-be once again.
Many of the YES folk have joined the SNP, Greens, SSP.
Tommy Sheridan is great
John King @6.19am, Before I thought about it, the Hilton and Docherty bit where people were not believing a word of what they were saying. I thought good, then John I thought that these were probably those who did not vote for Labour.
Cara Hilton surely hopes that those who did are continuing to be as stupid considering that they voted her in against an SNP candidate who had not been any where near the Pitcorthie School closure. Whether or not it was a protest against Bill Walker or not, it stuck in my craw the weekend after to see those protesting the closure out in the High Street gathering signatures from many who had voted for it.
An educated electorate my eye. I despair of them all, constantly voting against their own best interests then complaining. I expect to hear them moaning about the referendum shortly, if done in my hearing they will get short shrift.
Well there are times when I get riled and this morning on reading that Curran claimed £120,000 in expenses over and above salary in 2012 I am very riled.
People in Glasgow and other areas are having to go to foodbanks while this total waste of space and her like thieves from the taxpayer.
This particular piece of rubbish must be voted out. I would like to see posters with this kind of information on billboards so ordinary folk can view what liars look like.
@Grouse Beater
I agree, we were cheated.
They wouldn’t put DevoMax on the ballot as a second question. Yet, less than two weeks from the vote they guaranteed its delivery with a No win. If that isn’t cheating, what is?
What they did was bound to work. If DevoMax had been on the ballot as a second question then the results might have been …
independence 35% yes 65% no
DevoMax 75% yes 25% no
…. DevoMax always was and still is popular.
Everything now hinges on, was their vow genuine? Will they keep their promise? Can they deliver?
Can pigs attain supersonic flight?
Grouse Beater
I agree we were cheated 100% and I feel that the impossibility of Westminster giving what they promised guarantees the desire for independence can only grow.
The young, first time voters will feel this betrayal keenly and I would be surprised if many of the young of the 45% in particular will ever vote for a unionist party again.
The fact that we were cheated does not mean that there is nothing I would do differently if I was in charge of Yes2 and that was what I was trying to get across.
Morning call this morning may be interesting – awaiting a discussion on the printed press’ future in Scotland following their No campaign…
Have a guid day GB
70% in Scotland want fiscal autonomy in Scotland. With ‘Independence’ to follow. No Trident or illegal war. That is quite clear. So what is the problem. 25% of NO voters – voted NO on the promise of more powers. No taxation without representation. People in Scotland are quite capable of deciding how taxes are raised and spent. What is the problem?
What a difference it would have been if the Westminster establishment had decided to engage in dialogue to make that happen. What is the problem? Democracy.
Huffingtom post is reporting SNP membership at 100,000
Why does Scotland worry about supplying energy to the rest of the UK? Scotland should use the excess energy to invest in electric cars which are five times cheaper to run. That would bring massive savings. £20 a week instead of £100 for fuel.
Galamcennalath
The wm pigs and troughers can certainly attain supersonic backtracking and in fighting.
All of which is good news for us in the long run.
@Sue Varley 9.20
I agree completely with you. I was at a hairdressing afternoon yesterday and met my NO friends again, some with small businesses and most English. One said that she was so glad that she didn’t have to worry anymore. She was glad it was a NO because we wouldn’t get a chance to have another Referendum. She is English and when I asked her kindly if she had no reservations about voting against the wishes of another country, especially when that country was making her life easier than back in England, she rounded on me telling me that this is Britain and she felt British and no matter what she would NEVER vote for Scottish Independence.
These “friends” repeatedly remind me that they are the ” silent” majority!
Nana Smith says:
“Huffingtom post is reporting SNP membership at 100,000”
Good, if true. I think it might be just part of the confused message which has been flying around, though.
Two targets are – 160k the Tories have and 180k Labour has.
I doubt it, but wouldn’t it be amazing if the SNP had more members than any other UK party!?
David 8.28am.
“Truth is truth and once a liar has been found for what they are then they will not fool the majority again.”
I’m sorry David, I wish I could believe that, but Labour should have been found out a long time ago by the majority. Yet still today they have a hard core who will always vote Labour no matter what.
When wee Willie Bain was standing for election in Glasgow North/Springburn, a tv journalist stopped a man in the street, not an old man by any means. He asked him if there were any circumstances under which he would not vote Labour. The answer was no. No matter what they did, this guy would always vote Labour. I’m afraid there are still too many like him.
Ken500 says:
“No taxation without representation”
Yes FFA is the immediate target.
One thing which concerns me is sometime soon, the Tories will introduce English votes for English laws. The problem here is that without Scottish FFA, England will be spending Scottish money on English projects without Scottish MPs having a say on our behalf. Which is another possible ‘No taxation without representation’ scenario.
DevoMax will spilt the NO vote right down the middle.
In the short term, DevoMax now has to be properly defined, and we have to push WM really hard for it. Of course they won’t allow it, but public perception is everything. If DevoMax is denied, then it seems perfectly reasonable to call for another referendum.
We want a high moral position of, every time BBC-MSM calls us to accept the outcome of the 2014 result and “move on”, we respond by saying “Ok, give us DevoMax, and if the Scottish people are satisfied, then things will settle (for a while).
IMO, an offer to hold off another referendum for 10 years in return for real DevoMax, creates a win-win situation. They won’t agree, then we call another independence referendum at our convenience. Besides, looking at the demography and how the older flock voted NO en masse, it will take at least another 5 years for hard YES to reach 48-49%, and 10 years to achieve 50-51%. This can be brought forward of course by events (2014 Broken VOW, 2015 GE result, 2016 Holrood election, 2017 Euro referendum etc). At the moment, however, there is no point in pushing for another independence referendum for 5-10 years at least. We lost unconvincingly. Next time we have to win, convincingly.
That gives a 5 year DevoMax window to push them hard, do spomething that 70% of Scotland already supports, and completely destroy any residual credibility that the British establishment may be hanging on to.
Good Morning Scotland or Give Me Strength?
Louise White with an (E) says BBC unbiased and not one way or the other during the referendum. Blame the papers not the beeb, holy-be-jeezus the warld hus turn’t innaside oot n uppity doon.
@ Robert Peffers, sorry but I can’t see any way back for “new labour” in Scotland. The whole organisation from MP’s through to party activists put their PARTY BEFORE PEOPLE in Scotland. The only chance they have is if they out themselves as the centre right party in our country, thus balancing the political landscape against the SNP.
Scotland is in a worse position than either Quebec or Catalonia. Quebec and Catalonia are provinces which do have some control over how taxes are raised and spent in a Federal system of local government.
Scotlabd is a country in a supposed to be equal Union, where Westminster has secretly abused Scottish revenues. Thatcher, the McCrone Report etc. Scottish Oil sector taxed up to 90% while (foreign) multinationals evade tax through the City of London. Banking fraudsters are not put in jail.
When wee Willie Bain was standing for election in Glasgow North/Springburn, a tv journalist stopped a man in the street, not an old man by any means. He asked him if there were any circumstances under which he would not vote Labour. The answer was no. No matter what they did, this guy would always vote Labour. I’m afraid there are still too many like him.
Yes, but they are gradually declining. Consider how many Labour voters (in their strongholds) switched to SNP in 2011. Core Labour support is now 25-30% are declining. Many people vote tactically at GEs, and lend Labour their votes to keep the Tories out.
The challenge is to break this GE behaviour and show them that voting for Red Tories will still get you Tories. In fact they will still get Blue Tories in 2015, because Ed Milliband is unelectable. If they voted YES in 2014, they should consider voting against unionist parties in 2015 if they want anything more than token powers for Holyrood in 2017. It can be done.
@galamcennalath says “but wouldn’t it be amazing if the SNP had more members than any other UK party!?”
It sure would!
@Nana Smith
£120 000!!!!! No wonder she was acting like a kid at Christmas when the the results were coming in.
She is one of the worst of the ‘old guard’. I do hope she is shown the door next May.
It seems some folks are easily impressed [with Gordy Broon] and believe the independence result was decisive.
link to archive.today
Nicola has an article in the New Left Review, along with Alan Grogan Colin Fox and others. Worth a read:
link to tinyurl.com
I think a lot of ex Labour voters would be surprised to learn that Jimmy Reid joined the SNP in 2005. See the SNP site for his reasons. The rescue of a genuine left in the Glasgow area could certainly benefit from more information on what a real social democracy actually is. The Jimmy Reid foundation could be producing leaflets for circulation to all the newly registered voters in the housing estates.
@Ken500:
Electric cars are still lacking proper battery life, and need somewhat long recharging. Besides, the batteries wear out and must be recycled carefully to avoid pollution.
Best option is methanol synthesis. Methanol is made from hydrogen, itself coming from the hydrolysis of the water with electricity (releasing oxygen), and carbon dioxide. It can then be fed into a classic heat engine, yielding a zero CO2 imprint. This is both ecological and convenient (methanol is like ordinary gas when it comes to handling and safety measures).
@Tam Jardine says: 6 October, 2014 at 12:39 am:
” The 2 groups we specifically didn’t appeal to were the comfortable, non intelligentsia middle class and the elderly and we must at least try and address that before we can take another shot at this.”
Naw! Tam, there’s three groups, not two. The third group is the London Labour in Scotland group and we made great inroads, (and when I say we the ones who did most on that score were Labour for Indy, Tommy Sheridan and Solidarity, and the SSP). Now that group are mostly drawn from former London Labour in Scotland members & supporters.
The contender for a Scottish national anthem, “Scotland the Brave”, is now a jock joke and being laughed at throughout the free World. It has now been replaced by, “Scotland the Feart”. We never expected to get support from the Tories or the LibDems, (Tories wi thir brains bashed oot), but did think we could win over many more London Labour in Scotland people. We failed to win them over and it was mainly they who instilled in the old, sick and disabled the fear of change.
That is why we need to depose London Labour from Scottish politics but to retain real Scottish Labour as Scottish Labour. It is very important to retain an independent socialist party in Scotland and to that end the other Scottish Socialist parties are the key.
May I suggest a good move would be to stand Labour for Indy candidates against the London Labour candidates in marginal seats thus splitting the socialist vote.
galamcennalath says:6 October, 2014 at 9:58 am
Two targets are – 160k the Tories have and 180k Labour has.
Peter Murrell on twitter:
Total @theSNP members now a whopping 76,688 – 3 Oct 2014
3 days on, SNP must be close to 80,000 now – after 18 days.
First target – 100,000, that’ll give ’em a fright.
After that, the more the merrier.
Don’t forget the Greens , the SSP – and IndyLabour?
Guys, you have got to hear this morning’s Call Kay(e), it’s got to be termed one massive advert for newspapers and not a phone-in, chit-chat as presented.
Just the worst hour and a half of pure, unadulterated, leading propaganda you’re ever likely to hear.
Looks like the powers that be are beginning to unleash the forces of darkness against the Catalonian people for daring to wish to run their own affairs.
Despite being the richest region of Spain:
Fitch has just warned that Catalan public debt would be reclassified with a junk rating in the case of a breakaway.
link to elpais.com?
@ SquareHaggis
So, Propagandist Kay(e) at Pravda Central, propagandises for other propagandists?
They’ll be disappearing uo their sanctimonious erses soon.
Only toes will be visible.
@ B(the panda)
“They need to plunder our riches and resources to survive.
That is the way the Empire was always run”.
Aye, it’s how it is…they know and so do we.
But, I believe more and more are also seeing this, and with their increased support and direct action, an end to Westminster’s harmful effect on Scotland may be coming to an end. Here’s hoping!
Hope the Catalans hold strong.
I fear the worst though.
@Alex Clark:
I think it is high time any decent country kicked up the asses of the pricks running those agencies.
Robert Peffers
I didn’t count the labour voters because efforts there were more successful as you say.
I wondered if there were seats where the Yes vote would be optimised by fielding an SSP or Indy for Labour, or indeed RIC candidate? Or prominent independent candidate?
I suppose one question is this: how likely are the real left wing voters to vote SNP to get rid of labour? If the answer is that they are likely then field SNP everywhere. If the answer is they are more likely to either not vote or vote labour then a left wing candidate could be used to split the vote.
The SNP has such a machine behind it, and plenty new blood so I think probably just field SNP candidates and diverge in the Scottish Parliament Election
This election is very different to any other – it is (in my view) another referendum and we need to hammer labour (and the rest of the unionist cabal).
I have voted SSP before and will probably do so again once we have severed the union.
As for Scotland the Brave being now a laughing stock – I was brave, my wife was, most of our friends and my colleagues were. You were. So it does apply but only to some. The rest of the free world can GTF – where were the international leaders when we needed a little support and even – handedness? There was support from ordinary people but no leaders were pro indy except the North Koreans!
The free world did nothing to be proud of themselves.
The ” socialist ” Labour Party is dead…….get over it!
Bugger (the Panda)
Louise White cut off one guy when he lumped the BBC in with the press in being pro-union. “The BBC are completely impartial” or words to that effect. Repeating this tosh again doesn’t make it true. What she did was reinforce a message that they cannot be challenged on impartiality.
Remind me, what UK government body do I go to to complain?
link to storetingpagang.no
So the sweaties think we can only build rigs in the far east because actually building these mega billion platforms in the Scotland region was way way too expensive.
Suckas.
” The 2 groups we specifically didn’t appeal to were the comfortable, non intelligentsia middle class and the elderly and we must at least try and address that before we can take another shot at this.”
I remember delivering a very leftie YES newspaper, clearly designed for Labour supporters, to a few posh streets in Aberdeen, and thinking at the time: “This may not go down very well here!”.
We need to be more clever.
@caz-m – just watched that Tommy Sheridan vsv Willie Rennie – OMG that eejit just sat there with a gormless grin when Tommy was ripping into him.
Are folk like him brainwashed by the Brit establishment – nothing would embarrass him, how could anyone with a single brain cell vote for someone like that?
@Ken 500 – re energy, WM controls energy we have no powers therefore we have no choice but to give away our excess energy.
Re No voters, the ones that were duped will change but the selfish Nos will never change – we have to ignore them and concentrate on the ones who were duped.
@Luigi – I agree. We were out canvassing in v posh areas in Newton Mearns and all of us felt we were wasting our time.
They didn’t care about the NHS, food banks, ‘free’ prescriptions etc – the only thing that would get them to change if the gov fracked underneath their properties.
chalks
They may hold strong. Their newspapers and TV are controlled by Catalans.
link to sspcolinfox.blogspot.co.uk
SSP protests our exclusion from Lord Smith’s Devolution Commission.
the SSP MUST be included in the devolution commission!
@Marcia
Yes I agree they will hold strong. Specifically as you have said they have control of their media. Without that, like us, they would fail.
heedtracker
But we couldn’t possibly do that kind of thing – we can only build military vessels on the Clyde… and we only get them because the UK government is trying to help us out, no?
What a lack of ambition we have suffered under.
Loved the footage. I have seen an even bigger crane in Stavanger a couple of times – the Saipem 7000. It is one behemoth. Amazing stuff.
Thepnr
Talking of the home grown media – the official launch of the new pro-independence site is today at 3pm.
link to scottishstatesman.com
Regarding the meeja. Anyone else getting seriously hacked off with not just the narrow prism the Scottish media presents us with of here but also in the wider World.
Seems we’re tethered to a system where the World is still flat unless the elite ( London ) tells us otherwise.
Spoke to someone recently who said in Scandanavia the sale of ‘ electric ‘ cars is on the rise. Employees are putting in chargers, the employee charge their car at work . Could you imagine the impact of such a policy here?
Of course , we’d be accused of putting the petrol Companies out of business, in the strange world of Britishness.
It’s a fantastic , amazing World out there full of ideas but it seems we’ve only to participate it in looking through a grimy window , sadder still some of my fellow country men / women don’t even want to lift their heads and look out .
Thanks for the upvotes on Curtice – might help put him in his place a bit 🙂
@Molly our image is controlled through a prism of the London media and that’s why news outlets like the on-line one mentioned are essential.
I think that’s one of good things to come from the indy ref when nearly all of us Yes folk realised the brit media is our enemy.
Tam Jardine,
Woke up this morning and turned on the radio just as Radio Scotland was doing “plugs” for itself,e.g. “A station like no other”. Aye you can say that again!
They just don’t get it ,do they.
Honestly, are they on an alternative universe?
Clegg ‘UK must raise more taxes to cut the deficit’
ConDems just cut taxes, especially for the wealthiest. The wealth of the wealthiest has increased 15% 5 people own more than 1/5 (20%) of the population in the UK.
Scottish independence: Pay North Sea revenues straight to Holyrood, says top Tory
link to archive.today
link to north-star-news.co.uk
All political parties are well aware of the urgent need to reduce the annual UK financial deficit and this is reflected in recent conference statements. The Labour Party seems intent on soaking the rich, just a little whilst the Tory’s would squeeze the poorer members of society. Removing the attractiveness of the many tax avoidance schemes would eliminate any need to add further austerity measures to those presently in place.
link to caltonjock.com
I seem to come on here with only depressing thoughts , but I can’t seem to see the light at the end of the tunnel at the moment! I think that people on Indy sites tend to live in a bubble, congratulating ourselves on the increase in SNP, Green, SSP votes. I don’t think that the people that are joining up are NO voters regretting that they voted NO. They are in the majority YES voters who wer,nt signed up to a party.
ALL of the NO voters that I know are absolutely delighted that there was a NO vote and will definitely not support another Referendum. These people are ConDem people, often English and don’t feel that Scotland gets treated any less favourably than the rest of the UK.
As I’ve said umpteen times on here I’ve been a member of the SNP for 38 years and voted SNP for 50 years. They are more socialist than they used to be which suits me fine, however unless there is an Indy Conservative party and Lib Dem Indy party for those to the right of politics we have little chance of Independence. Scotland isn’t just a socialist country as some on here seem to think. How do we attract a large ConDem vote?
Scotland Will Get Another Independence Referendum Despite the No Vote
link to archive.today
Flower of Scotland
I have been a member/voter as long as yourself Away from Referendums some of those who voted No will vote SNP for a variety of different reason. Personal vote of MPs, anti-Labour, Anti-Tory or Anti-LD tactical vote depending on the seat. Like what the SNP offers but didn’t feel confident yet to vote Yes. Just as some of the Yes won’t vote SNP for the same variety of different reasons.
Robert Peffer 8.48.
I have to say Rob that i hope and think labour will be hammered in the GE an SE .I will never forget the party and using the same name in a indi minded Scotland will only get YESSERS hackles up.
No matter what they offer now , i would not believe them. Would anyone ??
No i can see SNP winning most of their seats and the SNP slowly changing due to the massive increase in members. Nichola knows this and is a lefty anyway.
I know Labour for independence done well Robert but they will always be tarnished using the name of the party that lied and scared the Scots into a NO.
We all agree that after we get indi we can choose our own parties away from London’s reach. So voting SNP no is not a problem. Just get them in first and sort out the rest later.
Just like we planned if the vote was YES.
We need a big hitter in the GE. Only the SNP have the powers just now so we should use what we have.
@Flower of Scotland
Some of Our Supporters and Contributors
Molly, believe it or not the same policies have been put in place by the Scottish government. Companies can get electric car charge points installed (fully funded by the government), and the same goes for home charge points, which are available for free in the rest of the UK as well.
There’s also a fast charge network being built, although this has been stymied as the money is given to different councils and they proceed to, essentially, spend it on themselves and not allow public access to the facilities we’ve paid for.
However, public uptake for EVs is very small still. I think that is largely due to the way they are very badly depicted in the media (think Top Gear). Electric cars are a threat to the oil barons and the elite in a number of ways, so until they can figure out a way of controlling and maximising their ability to gouge consumers, that won’t change.
Good link Nana! Thanks!
Andrew Neil dropped a snidey little remark during an interview on his Daily Politics Show this morning. The subject was, who would the Conservatives go into coalition with if there was a hung Westminster Parliament?
“You could go into coalition with the Nats, couldn’t you?”
The Labour Party have obviously nobbled him and he has been instructed to push that line, “An SNP vote will let in the Tories.”
BBC Scotland’s Gordon Brewer used the same tactic yesterday.
One to watch in future interviews.
SNP-BAD
SCOTTISH LABOUR-GOOD
Where have we seen something similar to that before?
After the Referendum: Could Labour go the way of the Tories in Scotland?
link to archive.today
In reply to Alistair Carmichael’s call for the SNP to give up on Independence. NO, you give up on your stupid unjust unfair inhuman imperial unionism.
@Flower of Scotland
Hoping it gives us a wee lift out of our sadness, and I like so many others are feeling down.
Liz
That should have been employers , by the way putting in chargers.
I agree entirely , I’ve been lucky , I’ve been able to travel a wee bit and do you know what I’ve discovered?
Britain in so many ways is stuck in a time warp. The media can report on the latest technological discoveries etc but first and foremost the over riding message is preservation of the ‘ British way’ . By this I mean the establishment promoted and protected by the media, not the people.
David Cameron talked about Britain as a Family, yet we live with a state broadcaster who reinforces the stereotype of each Country as if we’re children. Oh look a report from Wales , followed by there will be a welcome in the hillside etc but when do you hear ordinary Welsh voices talking ?What about Ireland , how do folk in N Ireland feel about the Nuclear stations sitting across the water from them or anything else? Some Family, where the parents keep the children at arms length in case they discover they’ve got similar issues with their parents and might gang up on them.
That’s before we’re treated to how we are encouraged to perceive furriners. Jose Marino good ( or any other premier league manager ) brings skills, talents etc. Eastern European workers bad , brings skills and talent etc. That is how idiotic the message is but that’s how we’re sold it.
One of the biggest problems the Yes Campaign unleashed for the Nos was looking forward . We don’t do that in Britain , we don’t need to say , this is the kind of Country we want to become, we say this is who we are ( then quote Nelson, Churchill or whoever) . They had to close that argument down that we don’t need to look at our foreign policies or our energy policies or our welfare policies or God forbid a written Constitution , that’s dangerous territory for the Mother of democracy . Britains Bill of rights? Enshrined by the Daily record ?
In 50 years time , what kind of Country will Britain be?
The pay out from a pension plan is no shield from a state that is totally morally and financially bankrupt.
@ nana smith, 12.18 , Who knew, a Tory MP talking sense! 🙂
Kalmar .
Do you have anymore info on that?
@ Tam Jardine, its just mind blowing to see how Norway has such a vast and powerful economy, high pay, full employment, full teenage employment for christs sake, much higher standard of living, no WMD’s and yet 2 million cringers said No thanks, I’m teamGB me. Greed, self interest, BBCProjectFear and all the UKOK meeja wot won it for the troughers.
As in Press and Journal today covering up Apache pulling out now, but its so safe in teamGB! Why are you going Apache? tis another UKOK mystery. P&J also savaging Nicola Sturgeon, air gun law in Holyrood and lying for UKOK over LibDem fraudsters like Carmicheal and co.
Its enough to make you want to immigrate as another round of cuts slam into the worst off. Rule Britannia.
@ Flower of Scotland,
I hate to disagree with anyone on this site ( because it’s fantastic) but I just joined the SNP , I live in rural NE Fife, I work in agriculture and this is the bit I’m dreading but here goes I used to be a member of the Conservative party – sorry.
But if I have seen the light I don’t see why the SNP can’t attract others like me, also my mum who was brain washed into voting Tory has asked me to sign her up too, we both voted Yes because we thought that would be best for all of us in Scotland.
Flower of Scotland
Not sure about the Lib Dems but I do think that Conservatives could be persuaded that their party would prosper more with a clean break from their southern compatriots than the do at the moment. However, the main problem was not Conservative Unionism but Labour Unionism. If the Labour Party had back independence then we would have cleared the finish line with plenty to spare. As it was the Labour Party were corralling their members to try and prevent a break out for Yes. A decision they may very well regret.
Welcome Sugar bean, I too live in NEFife although never voted for the same party you used to.
The Independence struggle requires everyone to pull together!
We all need to persuade others that Independence will work best at Scottish and UK level where smaller decision making bodies work better and would lead to more equal partnerships between countries.
Better a good neighbour than a surly lodger!
Informal Yes social being held in Bell Rock Tavern in Tayport on 15 Oct from 8pm.
Hope you are able to come along!
Tam Jardine.
Superbly put my man . As usual. You speak for many here Tam. Me included. I am swithering about joining the SNP or SSP. Sorry but the greens are too much of a minority at the moment and as you said earlier we need big numbers at the GE. I will vote SNP then and like you look at SSP for the SE in2016.
I don’t think i will ever forget that Labour sold this country . Their colours are now on show. You get what you see. And that is more austerity , more attacks on the poor and disabled, more WMD’s and scaring the pensioners with the worst pension in EU anyway.
I fucking hate everything to do with that party.
SNP must win the GE in Scotland or we are all goosed.
the indi camapaign will die fact.
Me with it
The irony is that uncertainty was the main weapon of the NO camp, and 47% of the NOes voted NO because of uncertainty.
And yet a YES vote would have given certainty, constitutionally. It would have been certain we would become Independente, and control our own destiny.
The NO vote, with 45% voting for YES means that Independence will always be on the agenda until we actually become Independent, and NO has also meant there is no certainty what, if any, extra powers will be delivered, all the way up to Devo-Max.
The slogan for YES could have been “Vote NO for uncertainty, vote YES for certainty”.
Nana
Thanks for all the links you provide. I don’t know how you manage to find them all but they are always informative.
No matter how pushed for time i am when skimming through comments for updates i always click on the links you provide.
Thanks again.
Sugar bean @ 1305pm
As was said in the referendum campaign, ‘it’s not where we come from, it’s where we are going together that matters’.
YES voters and SNP members came from many different backgrounds, including as we now know, Tories.
The fact that you voted YES, I think demonstrates the strength of the argument for Scottish independence.
Hi Sugar bean!
I live in the Howe of Fife. Ming Campbell country. Wouldn’t it be great to get rid of his successor in the GE?
Alstair Carmichael
“Sturgeon has to stop speaking for the 45% alone – she has to speak for the 100%”
Can someone tell this idiot that by all accounts he is only speaking for about 7% and should therefor take a long look at himself before lecturing other politicians for whom he is not fit to lace the boot straps.
@yesindyref2
Yes! That makes me feel better! Must look at it like that! Folks on here always make me feel better!
Molly: hope this link works:
link to transportscotland.gov.uk
See also “E-cosse” on the transport scotland website, and the energy saving trust website for the UK-wide scheme.
For further info ask on the eva-scotland.org website forum
“The irony is that uncertainty was the main weapon of the NO camp, and 47% of the NOes voted NO because of uncertainty.”
I’m an idiot. That’s plus 25% of the NOes voted NO for uncertain “more powers”, plus of course the 45% who voted YES who are now uncertain what’s going to happen.
And then there’s the poor 27% of the NOes who just wanted to stay in the Union, bless them, who now don’t have a clue what sort of hodge-podge is going to be served up cold and unappetising by the Smith Commission, to potentially do far greater damage to Scotland’s finances than Independence at its worst could ever do.
That’s 100% of us with uncertainty now, because of the NO vote. And it’s going to show in companies moving out, investment being stranded, growth stalling. It is an argument though for Devo-Max or get lost.
@Graeme Doig
No problem Graeme, glad to help.
I’ve been a wee bit sluggish providing links this last week or so.
Flower of Scotland.
I think we all share your mood. So close and yet so far. As regards the bubble we are in while on Wings, we seem to have a lot more newer commenters. .Page views are up, most of the MSM would sell their own mums for those numbers. We are still here and growing .
Stu’s on a wee break and we are lost for the time being, but take some good cheer from the comments. We are raring to go and there are more folk in the know now more than ever.
In my area of Dalkeith most folk i speak to are still talking politics. That’s a shock. Young , old, well off and poor. the vow changed a few minds but breaking their promise will change many many more.
Your a wee gem on this site. Flower. keep your chin up. We will be back to business soon, we have a country to free for our kids. Not for us.
Hurry up Stu. Pretty please. Give us an idea or two and set us on our way.
I have started smoking again. Bollocks. I look at my wee E-ciggy with contempt . It;s like the No vote. Fake .
And further to my last comment. It doesn’t go unnoticed that he is continuing the completely derogatory stance of referring to the SNP leadership by surname only.
I guess the war on anything independence related goes on.
Carmichael, you’re right the war does go on.
Well this clown really annoys me, asking for respect when the NO vote was gotten by lies and deceit. Scared the hell out of our elderly and lied to sick folks about cross border health measures.
I could go on but really this buffoon help me Rona is not fit to be in any position to lecture.
link to archive.today
Labour for Independence has had a meeting and posted this:
link to facebook.com
including this statement, which I find encouraging –
“Labour for Independence will continue as a campaign and educational organisation. We will be a home for people who seek to discuss and see a return to real Labour values within the political system. Membership of other political parties are not a barrier to inclusion.
As a campaign group we will still support the pursuit of Scottish Independence and will also support our core values such as removal of nuclear weapons, and fighting against austerity. As a place for education we will hold meetings nationally every 3 months which we will engage in political discussion and processes.
The group will welcome people from any political parties and none, who share similar values to ourselves. We will rename the group at our first meeting in January 2015. “
I’d be very wary of over-hyping the SNP membership numbers.
Someone did a graph of Peter Murrell’s tweeted numbers, and it’s a sigmoid curve. The main rush is over and it looks as if it may level off around 80,000. Maybe a wee bit more.
Of course they are actively promoting membership and encouraging recruitment, but the astounding stampede to join that we saw in the days following the referendum is unlikely to be repeated. The party has trebled its membership in the space of a fortnight. 76,688 (and probably even more by now) is an astonishing achievement.
I’m concerned that this magnificent number is being belittled and diminished by people tweeting about 100,000 and more, either in the mistaken belief that it’s already there, or presenting that as a target. Worse still, going on about 120,000 or even 150,000. What we’ve reached is amazing. We’re not going to double it.
The SNP doesn’t need or want reluctant or coerced members. The people who flocked to join immediately after the referendum, of their own free choice, are exactly what it does need. And people who willingly decide to join up after a friend has suggested it to them. But there’s a natural ceiling to that, and it’s probably lower than 100,000.
So hey, can’t we celebrate 76,688 or whatever new number comes out of Jackson’s Entry today, without setting up unrealistic fantasy targets that will only lead to disappointment?
Hey flower of scotland and sugar bean, I’m in NE Fife too and have also an axe to grind with Ming the Moralless.
Sugar bean,
Great to hear from you.
You were probably brought up to think of others..Like so many Scots from every political background.And that’s pretty hard to fit in with modern Conservative”greed is good” policy.Personally I think there’s far too much talk of hating this lot and despising that lot.Destroying the Labour Party etc.
I voted Yes because I want a more prosperous and fairer Scotland.Not because I hate anyone.
if you are in the howe of fife, get yourself onto the NEF mailing list, such a wide spread area needs lots of contacts
see face book yes nef
NEF GE constintuency = NEF Holyrood constintuency + Leven + lower largo
NEF 2005 General Election
Lib (Ming) 20,088
Tory 7,517
Lab 4,920
SNP 4,011
Greens 1,071
UKIP 533
SSP 416
Turnout 62%
NEF 2007 Holyrood Election Notional result
Lib 12,435
Tory 7,869
SNP 6,169
Lab 2,312
Others 638
Turnout 52%
2007 corrected for 63.6 % turnout, Tory 8782, Libdem 13878, Lab 2580
NEF 2010 General Election
Lib (Ming) 17,763
Tory 8,715
Lab 6,869
SNP 5,685
UKIP 1,032
Turnout 64%
NEF 2011 Holyrood Election
SNP (Rod) 11,029
Lib 8,437
Tory 5,618
Lab 3,613
UKIP 979
Turnout 50%
2011 corrected for 63.6 % turnout, Tory 6405, Libdem 9618, Lab 4119
Flower of Scotland
For some reason I bounced back quite quickly. Still get the sadness and the anger, but it’s not because we won’t get Independence because we will, that’s obvious from the way the YES movement hasn’t died, it’s because it’s a question of when.
The anger and upset is that we could have had it on 24th March 2016, now we’ll have to wait 2 or 3 years more.
Welcome Sugar bean
I also live in rural NEF
find out the activist email adress on facebook NEF
we could do with the help. we can win mings seat, no problem
Good to see you Sugar Bean, I’m sure you will spread the word about Wings and the various New sources of news reporting that are coming to life, and will give a real spread of opinion.
Hi guys,
I’m surrounded by no voters at work. I think we have to play the long game here. Most folk are indoctrinated by conventional education (eg economics ) and MSM and so trying to change embedded belief ain’t going to help.
I tend to try to make people think more about the systems we have and how they are broken, but I do it away for the indyref context.
I hear celebration about house prices rises for example and I challenge this by asking “is it really a good thing?”
People talk about nationalised banks and bonuses etc and I ask, maybe we should nationalise money, not banks. The normal reply to this is “eh, what do you mean?..”
Changing deeply held beliefs will take time. We also have to look at how YES campaign could have been better. We have to be a bit self critical rather than being too critical of others.
Scottie, have you asked them about the debt,deficit and what the UK’s revenue streams are?
Carmichael seems to conveniently forget that the only reason we are being offered anything more is because we effectively threatened and almost did win our independence.
For him to think that the question over independence is going away now is not, in my view, any sort of naivety, but wishful thinking.
Independence must be kept front and centre by the SNP to keep the wm politicians to account and the fickle Scottish electorate reminded of the alternatives on offer when we are ultimately shafted (again and again) by wm.
Business and investment will come and go as per whether or not independence remains an option for us. Carmichael obviously still in full project fear mode. What a complete t####r!
YESGUY
“Young , old, well off and poor. the vow changed a few minds but breaking their promise will change many many more.”
Good point, I never thought of that one. Yes, even for people who didn’t want the powers or didn’t believe it anyway, the fact of breaking the vow could anger them, or at least pull the wool from their eyes about Westminster and its lies.
Apache are pulling out are they?
link to energyvoice.com
@Morag
Indeed, 76,000 members not including the other pro indy surges is something fantastic.
@caz-m says:
Does anyone know if YES Scotland have officially finished up or not?.
The last Facebook post was on Sept 23.
They have 368,000 followers which is ridiculous to waste.
They need to keep this page going at least.
Even if the name changes from YES, to something like ‘Scotland First’, ‘Scotland Forwards’ etc
I think the other two parties have just under 10,000 in total, between them. So there’s always that to add on.
@Alan Mackintosh says:
..we are up for the fight here in Inverness. Haved moved the Yes shop to bigger premises, volunteers sorted out for manning it..
Wouldn’t it be great to see YES shops converted into YES coffee shops, and start making money?
Perhaps with a name change again.
How good would it be if the Weirs rented us a high street site in Glasgow or Edinburgh. Or perhaps we could crowdfund for a good location.
It’s great to donate money, but better to have an investment that generates regular income.
And a place to sign up new members, put posters in the window etc
I bet the YES bar made a fortune during the campaign !!
@nana Smith – I too appreciate your links, and read them, as they are always little nuggets. That link ‘re. sweaty balloon Carmichael, is absolute shit stirring on his part in a desperate attempt to have a spotlight. There is no evidence in what he asserts – quite the opposite, all 3 senior members of SNP have stated they accept the outcome, and are co operating with the Smith Commission.
I know LfI are still continuing although Alan Grogan has resigned from Labour and has his own blog.
These folk still cant give up the idea that Labour will return to their old values – they have to work through that themselves.
What did annoy me a bit about their loyalty to lab is that they were encouraging their viewers to vote lab for MEPs, quite a few were questioning them about that – there are some folk who believe so deeply in Labour,I doubt they can give them up.
Im in West Fife and I don`t know which blab mp I will be voting out. If crash broon is standing down, which has been said is likely, his successor will not have the same “loyalty” as crash
and could be a target seat.
@Onwards – that is a really good idea – it could function as a Yes hub.
I’m sure some folk could take turns volunteering to work there and cash could be raised through,as you say selling, coffee, cakes.
If we even had some music, poetry evenings this might encourage non-politicos to come in
@chalk,
Yes I do but people don’t want to debate in the indyref context. I never get an answer to any of these questions.
When people are more relaxed and not on the defensive they are more likely to listen
@Sugar bean:
Welcome Sugar bean. I don’t live in NEF, nor anywhere in Scotland, but I like both Sugar and beans so here we go… 🙂
Liz I felt the same, I understand Allan Grogan was much abused by the Labour Party, so you would have thought he would have lost his “loyalty” but you scratch someone from Labour, and it seems to be like Blackpool Rock, it goes all the way through. My Husband always says that Labour could murder their family in front of them and they would still vote for them.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com very onformative.
@Onwards
That is indeed a terrific idea. Political hub coffee stop.
I wonder if there is a business start up grant available.
Would be a great opportunity for youth enterprise.
Who says the LibDems lack credibility…
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Priceless.
Alstair Carmichael
“Sturgeon has to stop speaking for the 45% alone – she has to speak for the 100%”
Who is speaking for the 70% that want DevoMax?
@Sugar bean says:
I hate to disagree with anyone on this site ( because it’s fantastic) but I just joined the SNP , I live in rural NE Fife, I work in agriculture and this is the bit I’m dreading but here goes I used to be a member of the Conservative party – sorry.
But if I have seen the light I don’t see why the SNP can’t attract others like me..
Nicola Sturgeon made a good point in interviews that wealth generation and social justice go hand in hand.
Basically, the country has to make the money to pay for all the freebies.
I don’t fully understand why so many conservatives voted NO.
Self-reliance is a natural conservative quality.
The easy comparison is seeing Scotland as becoming self-employed, rather than receiving a paycheck each year.
Even Rupert Murdoch famously tweeted ‘Let Scotland Compete’
@Onwards – I am meeting some of the WfI group on Tuesday evening to toss around some ideas, I will bring that up as I know some of them are going to attend the WfI event in Glasgow on 2nd November.
If we can get enough folk on-board it could really take off – also it could be seen as a ‘neutral’ place.
Kalmar
That’s excellent , will do , Thank you
Morag
I thought before from watching regular tweets slowing down the numbers, that the SNP membership would stop at about 70,00 but I was wrong. 80,000 does seem to be the current target top limit.
But Sturgeon is making the exact right moves, saying “Independence is inevitable, the next step from Devo-Max”. With that and other things she’s not only keeping up Indy, but taking ownership of Devo-Max for the SNP.
Which means if the Scottish Unionist parties don’t play ball, there could be a fair few Devo supporters joining the SNP during or after Smith finishes.
And if the Scottish Unionists do take on Devo-Max, that’ll cause a rift with their Westminster owners!
I do feel REALLY sorry for the LibDems, Conservatives and poor Labour o:)
@Liz, @Nana Smith
I think there is definitely a gap in the market for a YES style coffee shop or cafe.
I know I would personally go there in Glasgow or Edinburgh, instead of Starbucks or Costa, if I know the money is going to a good cause.
Importantly, I think it would have to be a visible high street location, where the windows could also function as billboards/advertising.
Near universities would be good too.
Rent and rates for city centre shops in good locations, is over £100,000 a year though – so it would also have to be profitable in its own right, attracting passers-by, tourists etc.
Onwards says:
6 October, 2014 at 3:02 pm
@Liz, @Nana Smith
THE YESCAF
@Bugger (the Panda)
É
in case you missed it
@Bugger (the Panda)
I like it… the YESCAF for NESCAF
@ everyone who was talking about cafés:
I was in Edinburgh during the festival, and walked past an Indy/Yes Café, full of women animatedly chatting and drinking tea and eating cakes. So I went in, and asked how long it had been open, assuming it was a new venture specially for the campaign.
The answer was that it had been there for several years, as a normal café, and the owner (to whom I was speaking) had designated it as a Yes meeting place one day a week – so I was just lucky to have seen it on the right day.
If it or any other existing venues were prepared to do the same now, that wouldn’t require additional financing.
Well, well, well, here we go again. Yet another LibDem U turn to suit their own personal survival agenda:
link to snp.org
Just a wee observation folks.
The No voters can hardly celebrate the fact they won the referendum because they diminished Scotland too.
Their defiance in arguments with YESSERS are that we will get more powers and still be in the union, proof that we are equals.
I don’t know many No’ers out my way but the 1 or 2 i spoke too see the so called “Vow” being torn up in front of their eyes and are angry. They might aim it at YESSERS but they know deep down the referendum vote will count for nothing if the powers are not granted.
Many YESSERS see this , expected this and there is nothing worse than an “I told you so ” chucked in the unionists face. Good !!
Remind them everyday that they were lied too. By the BBC/STV, etc. Remind them when the cuts cost them their jobs. remind them when they’re own family are abused with attacks on the old , disabled and poor. Remind them they allowed war and austerity whilst raising politicians pay and remind them that one day , no matter what happens, sooner or later Scotland will be an independent Nation.
just a wee observation folks. And it’s quietly comforting to see the cracks in their armour.
I am a smug YES voter, sad that we lost the ref. But smug knowing we are not going away and every day see false promises dwindle away along with the NO supports. It’s only a matter of time.
BtP 3.04
Brilliant , the Yescafe it should be.
Crazycat
You able to mention the cafe as i would like to give them some custom or is it better not to here for unwarranted knuckle dragging unionist attention.
@ No, no, no….Yes
The LibDems can’t stop the Tories having a referendum, but abandoning opposition to that will put them in a “stronger negotiating position”?????????!
Some of the things they come out with are so farcical I find it really hard to believe they have actually said them. And these people are/aspire to be politicians.
These cafes would also act as hubs for us.
How about a Wings Cafe. To promote this site. Or Cafe’s with a mixture of reps all united in an indi Scotland.
See i like the look of iScotland
keep chucking it into conversations elsewhere
iScotland
iScotland
……….. yup am bored …sorry.
handclapping
In Glasgow it is called Nescaf, without the é
@ Graeme Doig
I’ll have to go back to Edinburgh and find out what they call themselves! I know which street it is in, but that’s one of the ones that changes name several times along its length and I’m not completely certain where it was.
How about YES alliance candidates in 2015, for the biggest Labour strongholds:
Team Scotland
@BtP:
The AyeCafé would be for Apple buffs (strutting in the street with their AyePhones).
crazycat
If it’s central is it maybe North Bridge, Nicholson St, Clerk St (along these lines anyway. I get confused). There’s a few independent (with a small ‘i’) cafes up that way.
@ onwards
Like the page and ask if you can be an admin
kalmar says:
Hey flower of scotland and sugar bean,
===========Hey I am in the NE Fife too.LOL. Going for a few pints tonight with another YESSER.
Got to say this all us 45% have a lust for life in us that the NO’s and unionists don’t and will never have until they walk from the dark into the light. C’mon come and join us you noers.
Now the referendum’s over, the bad news keeps coming in. Lloyds Bank Group to axe jobs:
link to walesonline.co.uk
The problem is with this that bank (and finacnial sector) jobs will be going, but without Independence, there’s no extra incentive for foreign banks to move in to replace them, and take advantage of skilled staff. Financial staff will most likely have been largely NO voters, scared off by all the scares. Now they’re happening, with no international development recourse.
John Hoffmire: Scottish independence: What now?
link to deseretnews.com
Sugar bean
Kalmar
Lanarkist
FOS
Hi guys
Sorry I can’t be with you on wed lanarkist, not back in country till Thursday night
@ Graeme Doig
I knew which set of street names it was, just not which section, but by dint of a wee trawl through google streetview, I’ve found it.
The unionists have already had a go, so I don’t suppose it’s wrong to link it: link to facebook.com
Boring anorak that I am, I kept a note of party votes in the last Euro elections with a view to estimating the Ref. vote.
Some may find them interesting…others not.
SNP and Greens total= 494,998 (36.99%)
Cons, Ukip, assoc. Bnp nutters, and Lib Dems= 495,421(37.1%)
Labour= 346.377 (25.9%)
If we assume with these percentages being replicated more or less in the REF even with the doubling of the vote… we end up with 36.99% SNP/Greens plus slightly less than a third of Labour and some Lib Dems moving to Yes to get the 45% total that actually voted.
I know that apparently a lot of English resident and rural snp voters swapped to ‘NO’ but they appear to be counterbalanced somewhat by Labour ‘movers’.
The point is people that in order for a future YES WIN we must destroy Labour’s credibility in Scotland forever and put another 10% Labour votes on the proposed Yes Alliance.
Unfortunately, as these numbers show there is an intractable lump of Naysayers across Scotland which may prove difficult in the GE first past the post situations e.g Murphy’s seat where the main opposition are Unionist to the core ( as may be his own personal vote)
The other objective must be to destroy the BBC’s credibility once and for all. Today’s Call Louise a case in point….they are trying to reinforce their ‘honesty’ and ‘balance’ to the uninformed two million out there.
The SNP must not make the ‘YES’ campaign’s mistake of the softly softly approach with this propagandising Brit/State organisation. It must be challenged daily and publicly.
As stated the ‘Nay’ lot cannot be won over. They are British and will not buy into an alternative identity. So pissing them off with a harassing and reputation destroying campaign against the BBC is of no consequence.
More demos, more questions in the Scottish parliament, more direct verbal and political attacks on this corrupt organisation must be sustained in order to sow doubts and suspicion and eventually hatred and mistrust of the BBC in the minds of Labour supporting people.
I accused the press and BBC on this forum, and others like Newsnet, over three years ago of ‘supine’ behaviour towards the Unionist attacks on the SG. I now realise that it was not supine but collaborative, concerted and collusive in nature.
We lost the Referendum because the BBC fed the uninformed section of the Scottish public, the majority that were not media savvy, with State propagated lies. We must not let this happen again.
Get signing…
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
Loch side
You identified that the figures you post are totals and that the FTP system is different, while it may favour some seats, it disadvantages far more, how many seats in the ge were won with more than 50%
To make the case for Indy, we need to remove the unionist mouth peices at the ge, I think we can,
We will have the best candidates, we have the most activist who are still here and passionate. We have also spent the last 3 years canvassing, we know where our supporters are. We have a strong hand
Was speaking to a Greek guy, just left Edinburgh after a year at uni there, he left on the 9th sept
His observation was that the yes was far more in your face and fanatical than the nos
I think this is a truth, no one from the nos with lung problems climed the rock with an o2 tank to hang a no sign under the castle
I do think we may have mobilesed the no supporters inadvertantly, we need to be more circumspect in the lead up to the ge, how we do that, I don’t know, any thoughts
Re: cafes
During the campaign, there was a cafe in Leith that hosted events for leith says aye, called the area c coffeehouse.
Nana Smith says:
6 October, 2014 at 3:37 pm
John Hoffmire:
______________________________________________________
Nana,
Why promote worthless pieces like this from the Unionist side?
YESGUY….. you’re brilliant.
O/T something on RT today about DisUK being reportedly scrutinized by the UN for its discriminatory and possibly illegal treatment of disabled people.
@manandboy
Not promoting anything. It’s good to know what the enemy are saying so we can counter any rubbish assertions.
@Nana Smith
Agreed, too much one sided information is just propaganda by another name,
crazycat
Cheers for that
@Alex Clark
Thanks Alex I needed that support!
One sided info is not good in a so called democracy and I for one like to know when lies are being spread.
Thanks all for the warm welcome, been out chasing cows v wet!
@ Lanarkist can’t make it on the 15th, but if you’ve got any more dates coming up let me know I will be perusing Wings for any new info.
Nana, it would be good if you could include a short summary of what you’re linking to, or why you’re linking. I know there are days when I really don’t want to read an anti-Scotland diatribe, and would avoid clicking. I guess maybe I’m not alone.
Not saying don’t link, but maybe a wee health warning if there are possible consequences for the blood pressure?
Sorry Morag, don’t always have time to write down what the link may have to say, so unfortunately can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Maybe I will have to add a smiley face when its a happy link!
It used to be easy to see what Nana was linking too as she included the full URl. Now that she uses archive.today it is not so obvious.
Nana Smith does a great job here in seeking out articles relevant to Independence and bringing them to a wider audience that read here but I agree that a short headline or taster of an archived story would be useful.
Nana you have my respect for sure, please keep up the good fight.
Nana Smith
🙂
Hey, the smilie code would work fine! 🙂 or 🙁 depending.
Re Derek Batemann, his own readers disagreed with him on his repeated claims that BBC bias was not deliberate.
In sharp contrast, Newsnetscotland made it perfectly clear in many articles that that BBC bias was deliberate.
What I said in my comment was it will be interesting to see how their joint venture works out.
We lost our independence solely because of the BBC, no one else, not even Gordon Brown.
Alex Salmond and Blair Jenkins were constrained by their positions in not openly accusing the BBC of bias.
But Derek Batemann was totally dishonest in claiming that BBC bias was not deliberate.
Any regular W O S poster who can categorically state that BBC bias was not deliberate?
YESGUY
Thanks for your comments earlier – you gave me a wee boost amidst the carnage at home today.
Am I also smug? I feel that changing from the back foot to the front foot, no longer having to debunk every absurd negative fantasy coming from the No camp and instead being able to attack on the reality of lies and broken promises is really energising, even though I am still ragin’
Re cafés – I know Common Weal is planning on setting up Common Spaces (which I suppose will be cafés) in the big cities or helping others setup so that’s probably something worth using/getting involved in.
And Area C on Leith Walk is still a great place to meet.
Dave McEwan Hill,
“We have a difficulty removing Alan Reid in Argyll and Bute . He is completely invisible much of the time which makes targetting him very difficult indeed”
We won’t get rid of any of them unless we have the sense to form a Yes Alliance and field single independence supporting candidates.
Yes won in Labour ‘heartlands’. Yes voting Labour voters are unlikely to vote for the SNP in 2015 but are very likely to vote for RIC or Labour for Independence candidates.
Yes lost in SNP ‘heartlands’ and the SNP might well have trouble getting candidates elected under the ‘first past the post system’. There, we will need votes from non SNP Yes supporters.
If we don’t get our act together soon, the Westminster establishment will yet again succeed in dividing and ruling us.
The BBC bias was not deliberate – they genuinely considered themselves to be representing the majority view of BBC viewers and listeners in the whole of the UK.
Onwards and others, The Common weal is in the process of setting up indi cafes in various locations. Better to piggy back with them, or else piggy back onto an existing cafe which is Yes-friendly.
@Nana Smith – I love all the links you put on Nana keep it up 🙂
FAO Ian Brotherhood,
Hi Ian
Holding Registration stalls in Edinburgh. Am able to download membership forms for Greens and SNP but not SSP.
The SSP website obviously allows online application but the Get Involved > downloads tab leads to a 404 Error: page not found.
Any ideas, sir?
James Caithness – your user name keeps putting me off, because I keep thinking you must be related to the appalling John Thurso, who is my current MP. The Lib Dems seem to have become entrenched in the Highlands and Islands since the Tories became (almost) unelectable in the 1990s. We need to get rid of these Yellow Tories; John Thurso, Jelly Alexander, Charles Kennedy and whatshisname, the Scottish Secretary of State for a Defunct Scotland.
There needs to be a co-ordinated approach towards getting rid of these useless Unionist line-my-own-pocket MPs in next year’s GE in the same way Yessers need to focus on SCaLP MPs further south.
Love that acronym, by the way (Scottish Conservative and Labour Party) Let’s take a few.
Paula Rose,
“The BBC bias was not deliberate – they genuinely considered themselves to be representing the majority view of BBC viewers and listeners in the whole of the UK.”
Utter nonsense.
[…] Taking the biscuits […]
Rock thinks it utter nonsense to claim that “The BBC … genuinely considered themselves to be representing the majority view of BBC viewers and listeners in the whole of the UK.”
Yes, they do represent the views of the vast majority of British citizens, across all of Britain, who want us to stay united. That’s what the Scottish people voted for, by a decisive majority. It’s what the vast majority of the British people want too, as every poll shows. We are very pleased, and relieved, that the Scottish people voted for unity. Now we can move forward together to beat our real enemy, not the union, or the English, but capitalism.
Every independece supporter here knows that Will Podmore is an unionist troll.
Every independence supporter here knows that Will Podmore is an unionist troll.
Hello all here is a view from south of the border.
I have a strong dislike for Nationalism and a stronger dislike for Toryism and as I am a fan of the late great Mr Reid you can tell were my politics rest. .I have been viewing the SNPs and Scotlands progress towards independance .The SNP lost the plot long before the vote by AS silly comments about Tiger economy in Ireland and Iceland, Flag waving and his affilation to the ex boss of RBS and his percieved inability to lay it on the line for doubters.
I wanted a yes vote and had I lived up there would have voted yes and then done all I could to dump nationalism
My friends in Scoland who voted no were not against indy but disliked AS .I said to them vote yes and then make your voice heard.
The mudslinging from both sides is nausiating.Politicians of all persuasions are very slippery.
Gently gently now and kindly towards the no brigade.
Be aware it is big busines that controls all and they have no soul
@Graham – well seen your view is from south of the border as it is coloured by pish. Our struggle is not about nationalism it is about self determination and the right to make decisions that affect our own people here where we live and work. It is also the grand sum of fuck all about Alex Salmond, our claim of right goes beyond any individual. The political nous and expertise of the FM can’t be discounted in getting us the vote but the vote was not about him it was about our country.
Croompenstein aaah of course its not about nationalism for you and it is only a view from a distance.You call it pish,but I do not call your view pish and accept wholly what you say as I am not intouch with all views on the situatation.
I am aware ther vote was not about him but for some people I have contact with it was and this is just a point I was making.
The tenor of your reply seems angry and the use of swear word does not enhance your comments.
All of my comments are valid in some way just as yours are.
When I reoly to some no bloggers I shall use what you have said,minus the tetch ,in order to illicit a response and another point of view, in this wayI shall enhance my understanding of the situation.
In the meantime gobbing off will only put the backs up and increase resistance to your ultimate goal which I would like to see in my lifetime,but be quick I am 76 now
@Graham – I apologise to you Graham for my language I didn’t mean to insult you. You are entitled to your say the same as anyone else
Graham and Croompenstein – my best men xx
Paula that is a very kind thing to say,thank you.
Croompenstein thank you,I did not feel insulted,just dissapointed,but your comment was very welcome.
Personally want I want is for all to live together with some sort of respect for different points of view.
One blog I read said unless you voted yes you were no a Scot.I replied that certainly would hurt a Gaelic speak Scot like my friend on Lewis ,feeling put down and more or less saying an Asian/Polish /English etc etc is more Scottish.
There must be a engaging with all to achieve the ultimate goal.
I recommend all should read Scottish economy watch(Independance) its a mouthful and takes some reading
Thank you both for your kind comments.
have a read of Scottish economy watch Independance–a real brainfull but worth the effort.Cannot say if it is accurate,but its done by a Scot.
On a lighter note.
My mother –a Blackcountry foundry worker and as hard as nails–would never tell me who my father was.
One day when I was 23 I decide to Grow a beard,well blow me it was bright red in contrast to my dark hair.
I suspect some great hairy Scot came down and did a diddle and the legacy was a red beard and perverse and rebellious nature.
[…] Taking the biscuits […]
Thanks Graham, I was a bit worse for wear when I wrote that although that isn’t an excuse. When I mentioned pish I was talking about the MSM down south not giving you the real facts of what was happening up here not having a go at you. Once again I’m sorry if I caused you any offence
Croompenstein Hello absolutely no offence taken.
Its so difficult to know whose right and wrong each side giving what seems the facts.
Anyone who apologises to a sassenach must be made of the right stuff to shape a good independant nation with no acrinomy.
However it will not happen for there is a lot of spite in the world with people taking the moral high ground and emotianally driven
I have enjoyed so much the shaking up of the Tory party and now UKIP are at it.
I am off in my camper with my darling wife to camp beside an English canal buit by a Scot with a railway over it built by a Scot and the road to it was built by a Scot and the poor devils who did the labouring were Irish–a slight
exaggeration,but only slight all the best