Spitting the dummy
Posted on
February 18, 2017 by
Chris Cairns
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18 02 17 07:56
Spitting the dummy | speymouth
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Says it all – nice one, Chris! 🙂
Accurate cartoon, Chris.
i just don’t see how he can last that long.
There must be forces at play who must be plotting against this child emperor and his entourage to dethrone him.
Who’s the dummy?
No more golf courses for Scotland!
Peter LLB says ‘No more golf courses for Scotland’
Oh thank the good Lord for that!
With the help of a few golbal warming style storms there’s a good chance the sands will blow in and the dunes will reclaim their rightful place = )
I meant ‘global’ ( now who’s the dummy!)
There really is no way to represent this man in an attractive light , is there?
We’re on the list now, are’nt we…
Quality Chris 😉
Looks like somebody’s slipped a Mickey Finn in his White Russian.
Coat
Golf brings on £Billions for Scotland. So does Trump. Golfing tourism is up 50%
The Press are out of control. In the illegal control of greedy, criminal, tax evading Non Dom warmongers. Most of them should be in prison for bribing public officials and hacking. The surveillance industry, illegally committing abuses and costing Trillions. If Trump stops the illegal invasions. He is doing the world a favour.
Obama banned Muslims for six months. Established the seven countries criteria in 2012. No a word was heard. Obama killed and maimed millions of Muslims. Clinton was receiving £Billions in donations from the Saudi who kill and maim millions of Muslims. Saudis the most absolute despot monarchy in the world. Obama and Clinton were totally corrupt liars. Despicable.
The well heeled migrants have to wait three months to emigrate. While leaving the poorer behind in atrocious conditions. Or having to attempt perilous journeys.
Trump caught perfectly! A big spoilt badly behaved immature ween!
Must confess I had to do a bit of googling to make sense. Then I realised this is the guy who had been talking too much to the Russians ….
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/16/trumps-pick-to-replace-michael-flynn-as-national-security-adviser-turns-down-offer-people-familiar-with-decision-say-2/?utm_term=.139462b4f5de
Trump can’t last, can he?
The dunes are being orotected by marram grasses.
Ken500 has the right of it. If people don’t see the correlation between our own media and the US edit they are missing the whole point of questioning the media. There is a much bigger game afoot and we ourselves are just one small front in a big war.
I don’t truly care for Trump as an individual but if a fraction of the opprobrium hurled in his direction had been directed in the direction of his last three predecessors we might not be where we are today.
The comparisons illustrated above show that Projection is a standard weapon of the elites; it’s little different from what the Yoons use on us.
It’s merely a question of joining the dots to see the bigger picture.
Ken 500 , I’m with you. We have suffered other Presidents as you say who have caused mayhem and murder around the world.
Here we saw the media vilify Alex Salmond , Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon – we know first hand how they operate yet we are all jumping on the anti Trump bandwagon.
I have been astonished at the hellish output on-line in the laughingly called Independent and the equally laughably called Guardian – column inches extraordinaire, down to some piece of idiocy in the Independent yesterday titled Trump made someone eat meatloaf – still haven’t decided if that was supposed to be funny or not , either way it failed to impress.
Given the choice in front of me of Clinton or Trump , I would have voted Trump and still would .
If all he succeeds in doing is speaking civilly to Putin and stopping the Putin Bogey man agenda and putting the media’s gas down a peep then I’ll be relatively pleased.
America will have to guard its own internal politics. I’m far more worried about ours.
“Obama banned Muslims for six months”
No.
He didn’t.
Peter, LL.B says:
“No more golf courses for Scotland!”
He could have at least rebuilt the Wa’ here and no’ in Mexico.
The monster in me wants to write to President Trump and comfort him over his victimhood to fake news as a way of outlining our own situation in Scotland against the BBC.I believe he has little faith in them. Powerful ally you see.
However I soon become rational again and reject the idea.out of hand. Like most sensible people I just want him gone.
Thank you, Chris, as always another point scored
How many Toads must a man wash down before…
Apologies to Bob Dylan
Peace Always
He managed, somehow, to keep 70 percent of his insanity hidden until he was elected. Now it’s just out there.
To those with sympathy for trump, he is a very nasty person with racist policies.
He is a danger to world peace and attacks on free press just make him similar to russia and china where independent news organisations are not allowed.
To equate us press with uk is wrong, the usa does have independent news organisations who are not government or murdoch controlled.
Flynn looks like Assad.
Now there’s a thought.
@Bob MACK at 09:11 am
Mind you, a Trump rant against Scottish independence could give a worthwhile boost to our YES campaign.
I trust Alex Salmond more than any other politician so I take his opinions on Trumff to be honest
@Undeadahaun. Thank you for proving my point.
That’s a keeper.
Posted this link to an essay by Jonathan Kirshner in the previous thread. Well worth re posting.
http://blog.lareviewofbooks.org/essays/america-america/#more-2985
Both the UK and American electorates will not easily forget 2016 ever happened. Neither covered themselves in glory over the presidential or EU ref campaigns.
Herald leads on BAE downgrading of investment plans on the back of the scaling down of Frigate oders for the Clyde that was promised (bribed) during independence referendum.
Regular Yoon writer complaining in Scotsman and Herald about BBC bias towards indy in Thursday’s Question Time.
One swallow doesn’t make a Summer
A narcissistic egomaniac as fake as his tan.
But, during his first month there has been a crackdown on sex trafficking, child exploitation and abuse rings. So far I believe there have been 1,200 arrests.
Morning links on previous thread
Don’t usually agree with anything that Ken 500 puts out but, with regards to Trump, I agree totally.
The man is only trying to carry out his election promises which very few politicians do.
His policies are beautifully right wing and appeal greatly to the socially conservative and economically anti globalist who are fed up with the liberal elite dominating the media especially the BBC and Sky.
Obama did not ban Muslims. That is a lie
There were increased screening on visas for one country and that stayed in place. It led to a slowdown in processing, but there was no ban
Trump is a bully, he welcher on his debts, he lies
He us the sort of monster that the UK press paint the Scottish Government as
He is no friend to us or anyone nit rich and able to do him favours
Sinky says
‘Regular Yoon writer complaining in Scotsman and Herald about BBC bias towards indy in Thursday’s Question Time.’
Having to actually watch and listen to pro-independence audience members instead of the topics of immigration and UKIP must have been torture for her. Shame. 🙂
Oh dear the Trumpers are out today.
Don’t we understand he won! He won!
More respect please.
I don’t know. I tend to find “beautiful” and “right wing” to be mutually exclusive adjectives…
The Press (Britain) is not free, balanced or unbiased. It is under Gov control, including the BBC. Without a free and balanced Press there is no Democracy. The internet creates balance. The British Press is right wing. Thatcher reneged on Ministerial code to give Murdoch control. She denied it. Rothermere the tax evading Non Dom supported remaining in the EU. Dacre was allowed to promote an anti EU campaign. To destroy the economy for greedy self interest? The Press is causing it’s own demise.
China is not a democracy but has created amazing growth. Russia is the same. After the devastation of 11WW. Saving the West. 26million people died in Russia. 1/2Million died in both UK and France in Europe. Millions died worldwide. Including Germany which was not allowed to re- arm but invested in the economy. Germany and Russia have had enough of war.
Britain and France Gov left the Russia ( communist) and Germany (Nazi) against each other. Russia did not even want to enter the war. They considered it a ‘capitalist’ war. The working class advised not to fight. Germany invaded Poland. Poland was handed over to Russian dominance at Yalta by the US and Britain. The Arms race in the 70/80’s. was bankrupting Russia and America. Dis-armourment Treaties had to be agreed. After 11WW There was starvation in Europe which led to the EU. De Gaulle veto UK membership. De Gaulle Non. The EU stood up again America. France until recent times was anti America. The EU is more powerful than the US. The US has the biggest debt. The UK has massive debt. The UK is the most unequal country in the world (Thatcher). Followed by the US.
O/T
Another crackin’ No to Yes film from Phantom Power
https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14
twitter.com/PhantomPower14
Cracker Chris! Wonder if Mother Theresa will put it back in for him?
“Je ne veux pas partir.”
http://imgur.com/a/LuiYQ
Obama review of Iraqi refugees (57,000), slowed down refugee admission for 6 months. While agency details were collated.
57,000 refugees? There are 4 million displaced in Syria. Millions have been killed and maimed in Iraq. Germany had 2 million migrants. The UK has accepted 10,000 refugees. The countries who illegally invaded and caused the carnage have accepted the least refugees. Other countries in Europe are having to help and bear the cost. Westminster still continued to illegally bomb Syria. When Trump was elected the illegally Military activity was stopped.
@Pete,
For an anti globalist Mr Trump sure has a lot of properties and business interests all over the world. Created by himself.
His policies are beautifully right wing and appeal greatly to the socially conservative and economically anti globalist who are fed up with the liberal elite dominating the media especially the BBC and Sky.”
Trump’s a fascist. Why did Trump, like UKIP, campaign on mass deportation of immigrants Pete? They didn’t did they, but they win the votes of voters who want to deport immigrants and believe Trump style govs will make it happen.
Tory UKIPer version of Trump is, “PM Teresa offers no guarantees about immigrants staying in the UK.” Red tory version just drop hints, with mugs, that say immigrants out.
You votes your fascist, you takes your chances.
She who must be obeyed – or Nana as we call her –
suggested I put this link here.
After feeling all smug about the wonderful BBC dealing with Trump’s press conference, the Today presenters get a bucket of icewater in the face.
From 2.28 in
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g97fm
While the world’s press continue to make the story all about them, Congress is quietly getting on with pushing through legislation gagging scientists, allowing companies to dump toxic waste and removing anti-corruption safeguards for big companies.
By the end of this administration, if we are still here, the Trumps and their cronies will be even wealthier and the world will be a toxic plundered wasteland.
Trump’s tantrums are a distraction for the terrible stuff they are doing.
@ Pete
http://imgur.com/a/ZHRmH
http://imgur.com/a/LuiYQ
Sinky 9.42am
RE: BAE Systems Frigate order for the Clyde.
With further defense cuts still to come, I have serious doubts about these ships being built on the Clyde. BBC Scotland should have been all over this story this morning, yet the chose to ignore it.
And where is Gary Smith, the big mouthed Ultra-Unionist GMB Union leader?
What is he saying about it?
Could anyone have ever predicted that the President of the United States would blast the BBC for telling lies and being biased?
Now all we need is for him to say is that Westminster are leeches sucking Scotland dry of their money and resources.
Never trust a tory, further right they get, the nastier it gets. Herald 10 hrs ago / David Leask, Chief Reporter.
Major investment scrapped at Upper Clyde’s last yards
SHIPBUILDING in Scotland will wither in the global marketplace, it has been claimed, after BAE Systems scaled back much-vaunted investment plans that would have been a “game-changer” for the industry
The defence giant has confirmed it will no longer invest in a major new outfitting hall to build new frigates for the Royal Navy.
Instead it will this summer begin a series of less dramatic investments at both its facilities, Govan and Scotstoun, to enable it to carry out what is now a smaller contract than first mooted.
Shipbuilding insiders stress that scrapping the giant shed, planned for Govan, is just the latest move to downgrade multi-million-pound investments on the Clyde mooted before the Scottish independence referendum in 2014.
Obama, Trump, any president of the USA, have in the past and probably will in the future, speak out against Scotland’s independence. Why? Because britnats in Westminster will beg them to do so. Hell mend the lot of them – at least until we regain our independence that is.
This may be slightly off-topic, but, Alf Baird has contributed a very interesting essay to Bella Caledonia today.
In this, he makes one or two points which I have felt for some time we in the Independence movement ought to have been considering.
I encourage Wingers to read it.
Proud cybernat , I love these as one who had two superb surgeons from India and Iran who cared for me so well many years ago .
My French is still pretty rotten sadly!
This is O/T sorry,but as the Tories were always on about late payment to farmers I thought it worth a read.
Type in P&J Farming and you come up with this story.
Scottish Conservatives urged to resolve red meat levy issue
I wish someone in the SNP would take this up with the tank and murdo.
Sorry I don’t know how to do links.
I encourage Wingers to read it.
I got this far,
“Scotland’s MP’s appear to have become more interested in process in the UK&EVEL parliament than in Scotland’s nationhood”
All based on? Scotland’s not independent today no doubt.
If the Frigate order is cancelled then the Scottish Government should do everything within their powers to save these yards.
The infrastructure of these yards must be kept up to date for the sake of shipbuilding on the Clyde.
If we stay within the UK then these yards will be left to rot.
In an Independent Scotland these yards could be put to use building ships for the North Sea Oil and Gas Industry or building ferries or cargo ships or tankers or even wind turbines.
If I was a shipbuilder on the Clyde I know which way I would vote and that would be for Scottish Independence.
It’s time to dump your English Masters.
Proud Cybernat:
If it the people you have portrayed et al were not here, I wouldn’t be either.Thank you.
Peace Always
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Yes, it’s wrong for someone to be smeared and hounded by a propaganda driven rabid press, but Trump is the real thing, ignorant, racist, impetuous, petty, and acrimonious. If you don’t trust the words, look at the deeds.
I repeat, two wrongs don’t make a right. A dandergous maverick narcissist is being hounded from his position of extreme power by a cynical, corrupt, morally indifferent dishonest media that’s too big for its boots. I see neither party as the “good guy”.
In this scenario, my enemy’s enemy is very much NOT my friend. The one side is as thoroughly repugnant and reprehensible as the other. May they both destroy each other so thoroughly, that in time, something properly, righteous, honest, and honourable replaces both, and let us all hope we are still around to see it. I fear however there may be a number Palestinians, Jews, Mexicans and Muslims, and simple street protesters who might not be.
I dare say Donald Trump does have some redeeming features, just as the media can print pictures of cute puppies. I don’t have a problem with the nice parts, it’s the inner deep rooted malignancy which troubles me.
Ive felt sure for a long time that all major Royal Navy ships will be built in Portsmouth. A giant new dry dock is being built there capable of taking the carriers now being assembled at Rosyth. If the new yard can handle the carriers it will get the rest.
Heedtracker @ 10.57
It’s a kick in the teeth for all the workers and their families, and the proud heritage of the Clyde – ships that sailed around the world, the engines of the’ Empire’ and the bedrock of the UK as a trading nation.
Lied to again! (but we knew this would happen, just prayed that it wouldn’t)
Wasn’t there a recent tweet/programme/article where it was put about that there was never any mention of numbers of frigates promised ( moving on the argument from (t)Ruthless’ statement in Holyrood that there had never been 13 ships, only ever 8)
Also, don’t forget, the kind and thoughtful Tory Government has already given us the alternative ‘vow’.
They wan’t to house the entire submarine fleet on the Clyde.
There you go, see how kind they really are!
Tories taking away the real work, (which they never intended to carry out here anyway – or else they would have given a date for the first steel to be cut ) and leaving us the crumbs from the table as a fall back position to try and bribe us out of voting YES next time..
Let’s put all those horrible submarine things in the middle of Scotland, we’ll train their young men to operate them and we’ll spend a paltry few millions of pounds on doing up the Clyde waterfront as a sop to the jocks, then they won’t be able to use that river because it will all be M.O.D restricted.
The sooner we control our future the better.
A timely comment Chris.
Trump is a tyrant and always was. During his hour long rant at the media on Thursday, a jewish orthodox reporter asked a perfectly legitimate question, and was ordered by Trump to shut up and sit down.
The next day I heard that same reporter being interviewed on the radio, and not once did he criticise Trump. In fact, he managed to sound quite complimentary about him.
The man was plainly scared. Jewish people have very sensitive antenna and long experience in spotting tyrants. There are signs that they and other minority groups are beginning to lie low, hoping they won’t be noticed.
Trump’s tactics are becoming clearer now. Turn the population against the media and the judiciary, “The enemies of the people”, which are in fact the very foundations of democracy. “Trust me not them” he is saying. Too many Americans are buying into this. He is gradually putting his own people into positions of power, in spite of a few comical hiccups.
While we are laughing at him he is securing his position. If a way isn’t found soon to remove him from the White House, it might be too late.
These interesting times we live in are becoming a bit too interesting for my liking.
Can Scotland borrow to invest in maintaining shipbuilding capacity.
If England won’t give us the pocket money we need, we should borrow from a ‘friendly nation’.
We need independence to allow is to invest in a future with high quality jobs.
Dummy and Dummier?
Meg merrilees says:
18 February, 2017 at 11:25 am
Heedtracker @ 10.57
They’re pulling out of their Scotland region but Argyll’s Faslane and Coulport are still massive UK military assets.
The ECB ( EU central bank) invests in Scotland. Renewables etc. A higher capacity than the BoE (in wish Scotland has a stake). Scottish Gov is not allowed to borrow. Councils can? Just raises funds to be wasted by Westminster. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.
Westminster indecision has led to Scotland losing the opportunity for EU (renewable) grants and investment. Additional EU monies were awarded to Scottish farmers. Westminster Tories took the money and gave it to wealthy farmers in the South. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU.
A dangerous dummy spitting out a dummy, thank you, Chris.
Your weekend reading
English racism runs riot: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dEN
Automobiles run riot: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dJi
Ken 500. No member of the current lynch mob (plenty in here) wants to hear truths. Some one shouts lets get him and they all give chase. It reminds me of the old Frankenstein movie where poor Frankie is being chased by the pitchfork wielding mob. It is sad to see people once respected for sound opinions and reason following this childish bandwagon.
The Clyde has been denied investment and commerce because of Faslane. Commercial activity was banned from the Clyde. (Thatcher). Norway builds 100 ships a year. Supply boats, ferries and liners. An expanding market.
Thatcher diminished ports all around the UK reduced commercial activity. Used the Oil revenues to build Tilbury Docks 26 miles. Thatcher centralised transport through London S/E, with subsidies etc. That is why there is such congestion, chaos and pollution around London. Anywhere but Heathrow. BA terminal five. BA commercial airline slots were subsidised. Heathrow/London transport is subsidised with public taxpayers money. Cost £32 return to Heathrow Airport. If Scotland was Independent improved essential flights could be subsidised by Scottish Gov. Instead of subsidising London transport. Reduced cost?
The trams should be charged higher. £8 return. Bus is £12 Airport return. Edinburgh has public subsidised transport. (Bus) passes are not allowed on the trams. Off peak travel. The trams are running st incapacity during off peak hours.
@Ken500,
Yes, and the Germans adored Hitler, and the majority of Syrians favour Assad.
Popularity is no guarantee they are not a lunatic.
Re the frigates and investment on the Clyde.
Buried in the Herald article(s) on this is the little nugget that Navy ships me be built by foreign yards in future.
Now was the oft repeated claim by the Unionists during Indyref1 that complex warships were not built in foreign yards and once independent Scotland would be a foreign country and thus not allowed to build complex warships?
Seems we don’t need independence to be denied the work.
John H
There is another view. One in which Donald Trump is merely symptomatic rather than causal. Where the unholy trinity of business, media and politicians formed an elitist cabal which increasingly over time coalesced around their own self interest rather than working towards an underpinning of democracy by ensuring the will of the people is carried out.
Whether that view is justified or not, I think it is true to say that it has been at least a commonly held one by much or perhaps even a majority, of the public for some time.
Certainly predating Trump’s candidature.
Such a view creates a trust vacuum which can only increase when those elected on a manifesto which promises correction and reversal of the perceived crony-elitism trend fail to deliver.
In a democracy the people will eventually decide that those already in the establishment bubble will not, or cannot, fix it, and they will attempt to fill that trust vacuum by electing someone from outside the system or some ‘radical’ previously ignored within it.
So in this view of things, a Trump (or Sanders, which the cabal in hindsight would probably have preferred) was inevitable and the election of someone with dubious judgement and honesty, seemingly only on the basis that at least sometimes he tells the truth and some of his judgements make sense is more of an indictment of how low the stock of the established elite has become.
The Trump (Organisation) family are pleasant folk. They go about their business without fuss or flash. They are approachable and pleasant. Fly in and out of the airport on ordinary flights without privilege. Drive ordinary cars etc. £Millions have been invested in Scotland. There have been disputes about wind turbines etc. A convenient excuse? The Trump son stated it was not an issue. Planning permission was given in unforeseen circumstances. The 2008 Banking crash could be the reason funds could not be raised to finish the Development. £Billions were lost in the Banking crash. The banks would not lend funds. Trump is all bluster. What you see is what you get. Straight. The Organisation pays above average wages. Good conditions. Invests in skills. Caddies (young) earn good tips and get to meet sporting people. Manchester players etc. Scotland needs tourism and jobs.
The underhand lying biased campaign by the limited opposition. They broke the Law etc. Fuelled the Press with lies. Totally unbalanced coverage. Led by the Scotsman. Tom English. Lie after lie after lie. Even when they were given the reality. It was not published. The biased BBC. The Greens lied and broke the Law. Letters were written after insider Council knowledge of the appending planning application. To the British Geographical society to get an SSI granted because there was not one. It was not granted because there was not time. Two geologists have to make the decision. That is illegal. The letters were in the evidence at the Inquiry. Landowners do not appreciate Americans.
Two faced lying political correct politicians have harmed the world economy. Very political correct while they sanction and starve people to death.
Trump spoke out about the Iraqi invasion in 2003. He said it was ‘stupid’. Trump spoke about the Banking crash, lost $Million and said the bankers should be put in jail. No reports about that. The American people are sick to death of the illegal wars and damaged economy. Obamacare costs €5000 a year per person with little relief. It is compulsory, and put the burden on the poorer. How people can manage? Similar to the Poll tax. Congress would not allow public money to fund the scheme. One Independent liberal congress man would not allow any public funds to be used. States have a Medicare system they can subscribe to. It is in major deficit. The American (UK) economy has stagnated for a decade. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.
Good grief, plenty of Trump hysteria here again.
Can people get some perspective please.
I believe he has a lot of catching up to do to get near to how dangerous Hilary Clinton is nevermind Hitler.
Also, there should be quite a few Wingers here that should be amazed we’re all still here as they had predicted the end of the world just as soon as he was in the seat of power.
Get a grip please, there is never a good time for hysterics.
Donnie Trumff could turn out to be the unwitting but best friend to the Scottish Independence movement
#saymorestuffdonnie
80% of Syrians support Assad. That is their choice. Instead of an illegal bombing of their country. A minority elected Trump on a ‘democratic’ system. That is their choice. The SNP is totally popular in Scotland. That is the choice. Independence could be popular. Putin is extremely popular in Russia. That is their choice. Saddam was supported in Iraq and there was free education and health care. A secular state, moves to modernity and an improvement economy. Not now.
Trump and the fact that modern media is dumped down opinion rather than analytical and discursive are two separate issues.
I don’t rate Trump at all and think his policies are ill thought out (where there is a semblance of a plan). His linkage to alt.right people like Bannon are I think a good indication of where he is heading and it is something that should rightly concern us.
What Trump is using to good effect is the underlying suspicion that most of us have regarding the media force feeding us highly selective information rather than a broad range of views. Trump has tuned into that and it is proving to be an excellent deflector shield for him because it he is tapping into something that is already there. A fundamental distrust. The fact that he is turning all the way up to 11 is worrisome because he is overplaying a genuine concern for his own advantage.
We need people to be critical of the media because outlets like the Express, Mail, Telegraph etc are plain, bare faced liars. To an extent Trump, by focusing on the trustworthiness of the media assists in asking people to think about what they read. However, too much and there could be a backlash and people go back into their bubble.
Chick McGregor
Chic. You may be right. The media certainly can’t control him. His own party may well be waiting, giving him enough rope to hang himself. Then they can put their own man Mike Pence, a real politician, in place. This might have been their plan all along for all we know.
@JohnH.
Aye, here’s the elephant in the room that few seem to be openly considering. Once they bin Trump; who replaces him..?
@Breastplate,
You been in a coma for 4 weeks?
John H
“The media certainly can’t control him”
That is the salient point, both in terms of his popularity and on the question concerning what the media is for.
It should not be (but, of course patently is as practiced) the media’s job to control anybody.
I don’t understand all this. On the one hand I and others crowdfund “BBC Misreporting Scotland”, because it was, and still is. The BBC is selective in its clips, take Nick Robinson “Salmond didn’t answer the question” shown in the BBC 2 minute edited clip. Compared to the full 7 minute clip which shows Salmond clearly does. Thousands demonstrate outside Pacific Quay.
So most Indy supporters accept that the BBC is heavily biased against Independence and the SNP.
But then everyone laps up what the BBC says and shows about Trump with its highly edited clips and believes every word of it.
You couldn’t make it up.
The SNP, being in Government, has to play a cunning game
Folk like Craig Murray, who proved soon after why he was rejected as a candidate, can mouth off all they like that the “SNP don’t really want Indy”
But those reviled SNP folk have been out there, in some cases fir decades, doing the hard, unglamorous work that got us where we are now. So close
They didn’t just have a party and wave flags
Pissing rain in winter, out leafletting, canvassing, talking to people
Saying “they don’t want Indy” as they build a case for ‘well we tried to match the ‘No’ vote with the ‘Remain’ vote” so that next ref has a solid foundation is not just insulting, it’s a cheap jibe
No Bob but I do have other priorities.
We’ve had this discussion about Trump Hysteria. It’s a bandwagon that many people have jumped on without a thought but merely because it’s the prevailing wind.
I find it unfortunate and disappointing that people on this site especially, as I hold this site in high regard, refuse to rationalise they’re thoughts on Trump specifically.
Trump criticism IS necessary but it should be reasonable and measured.
Don’t you agree?
The media must hold to account impartially. The failure to do so leads to despotism as we are seeing with May at Westminster.
I firmly believe that there is no impartial media these days apart from sites like Wings. Open debate, exchange of ideas, are the media of the future. It has gone beyond the single idea of one journalist or one major mogul to validate the truth.
It is now done by people like us ,ferreting away to establish facts and then distribute them to everyone. Reporters no longer do any such thing.
Trump is a classic example of lack of faith in the media. Berated on all sides,his voters still support him. This means he is untouchable. The media may be swarming all over him but nobody believes them. He will stay as long as that faith is kept with his core vote.
Yet, our own observations of the man from afar indicate someone who the media may just have described correctly. Strange.
Trump is a vulgar bully and probably a psychopath. He and his billionaire cronies fit the description of fascism perfectly. I refuse to welcome the takeover of any state by a fascist junta. We’ve been here before. It was called Nazi Germany and it all ended in tears.
I only hope he will soon get bored of dishing out orders and will retire to one of his golf courses – hopefully not Menie.
BTW stabilising shifting sands with marram grass DESTROYS the Sight of Special Scientific Interest becase they are no longer SHIFTING. Why Ken500 can’t retain that information is a mystery. All the details can be found online at the Scottish Natural Heritage website. It’s not a secret.
@Breastplate,
Yes, I do agree. Remember primarily that this individual is most probably the most powerful man on earth.
In his first month:
1.Alienates the Chinese Government by denying the One China Policy.
2. Breaks his own Constitution by issuing an illegal Executive Order.
3. Fails to find people to serve under his administration. Several posts still vacant in normally some of the most coveted of positions in politics.
4.Alienates the EU who now see him as a rival.
5. Sabre rattling at Iran
6. Cutting off major political figures during phone exchanges
7. Threatens the whole Middle East by stating he is happy with a one state solution. Totally disenfranchises the Palestinian people.
All of the above have been only corrected through officials running interference for him .
Now, on what basis is your evidence he is doing a good job.
The man is a political toddler—–and it shows.
But then everyone laps up what the BBC says and shows about Trump with its highly edited clips and believes every word of it
I couldn’t give a flying fuck what the BBC says about him as I said I will defer to Alex Salmond’s views on Trumff..
@Croompenstein
I have my own view on Trump. I think he’s a dangerous fruitloop.
I have my own view on the media. It’s heavily biased and lies.
The two views are not incompatible.
Capella, Do you think this the Scotsman? its Wings where rubbish is rarely printed though I am starting to wonder these days.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/michael-flynns-sacking-hillarys-revenge/5574939
Peace Always
Bob, where is your evidence that I said he was doing a good job?
Likening Trump to Hitler belittles the deaths of millions.
Is it beyond you to admit that Hysteria abounds when Trump is mentioned.
The best that you can come up with are stances that are no longer active and that he is not politically correct or politically savvy and he’s an obnoxious person.
So here’s the thing Bob, I agree that Trump is an obnoxious person, that he isn’t politically correct, that he isn’t politically savvy but in no way does that mean anyone should liken him to Hitler.
All I’m asking is for people to be reasonable with their criticism. I don’t believe that is too much to ask.
Do you still believe Trump will destroy the planet?
That’s not a rhetorical question, I would be interested in your answer.
@ john Ferguson 1:53 – sorry I can’t decipher your last comment – are you using predictive text?
Watching this unfold from Wales, I am also astonished to see the level of hysteria about Trump which has been initiated by the mainstream media. It reminds me of the “two minute hate” against Emmanuel Goldstein in George Orwell’s 1984! To my mind, the media have lost all sense of proportion and fairness in attacking Trump with such venom, right from the outset. They are acting almost like activists, rather than impartial news observers. It’s almost as if, with the emergence of social media and alternative sources of news, they have felt the need to ramp things up,and jump on what they perceive to be a popular anti-trump bandwagon for partisan advantage.
The Media in focusing solely on the man, are doing us all a disservice by not providing the proper context to all this: that Trump was elected because of the huge public disatisfaction with the consequences of globalisation and the destruction of so many jobs and communities in middle America. Let’s not forget the lack of money, lack of respect and the lack of power that people in places like the rust-belt states felt all too intensely in voting for something different.
America has intractable internal problems which will probably be beyond any President to solve, in the short term anyway. Trump was absolutely right to say that he has inherited a mess. I’m not expecting him to solve most of those internal problems, but if he keeps to his promise to build a better relationship with Russia, and join forces with Russia to defeat ISIS that will be good for all our sakes. I think that the real danger of Jihadi Islamists is much underestimated here in the West. It’s good that Trump has an expert like Dr Sebastian Gorka from Hungary( well versed in the evils of Nazism/Communism) to advise him on this issue.
I have been reading a bit of Scottish/ English battles and came across one in France where a small army of Scots were helping the French against the English. The Scots/French won due to the Scots.
Ref the French afterwards-
[4] No more were the Scots dismissed as “wine drinkers and mutton eaters” by their French allies.[11] On hearing of the Scottish victory, Pope Martin V passed comment by reiterating a common medieval saying,
“that “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.”
Just a bit of history there. (source –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baug%C3%A9
I wonder if ‘Breastplate’ writes for Breitbart News?
If not, he’ll come to the editor’s notice before long.
Cymru Rydd says:
18 February, 2017 at 2:05 pm
Watching this unfold from Wales, I am also astonished to see the level of hysteria about Trump which has been initiated by the mainstream media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSx-N9ayCvU
Grouse Beater
Great essay GB! https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2017/02/18/roots-of-english-racism/
“It’s one of the mysteries of Scotland that its separate identity has survived despite over 300 years of attempted assimilation with English mores and values.”
You’re nationality is not a mystery, even though some say its irrelevant or worse, gone.
US satire light years ahead of UK, where there is none at all really. Why would tory BBC satirise their masters? And ofcourse I exclude the brilliant,
http://wingsoverscotland.com/author/chris-cairns/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8BXFfZCWEA
For evidence of the Trump administrations direction of travel, here’s a handy Guardian list of proposed billionaires and Goldman Sachs employees so far. Not all of them approved yet but I believe Pruitt, climate change denier now in charge of EPS, has been approved.
There are some real beauties in there. From supporters of the Ku Klux Klan (Attorney General Sessions); a purveyor of bizarre conspiracy theories and a provocateur who compares abortion to slavery and same-sex marriage to pedophilia (Urban Development Ben Carson); opponent of women’s health programs. Described as having “a 100% pro-life record (Health Tom Price);Vehement critic of government regulation and staunch opponent of minimum wage laws (Labor Andrew F Puzder) etc etc.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/09/donald-trump-administration-cabinet-picks-so-far
Leaving it unarchived so you can enjoy the video. I realise it comes from one of the more egregious nasty liberal lying newspapers but even so, it makes some pretty impressive reading.
The MSM are arseholes.
Trump is an arsehole.
Trump is drawing attention to the MSM’s arseholes
and their depiction of him as an arsehole
in the hope of undermining their depiction of him as an arsehole.
“How can you believe these arseholes when they say I’m an arsehole?
They’re arseholes!”
Trump’s problem is that he’s such an arsehole he has no chance of convincing anybody with a brain cell that the arseholes depicting him as an arsehole are wrong.
Licence to lie: :
Donnie Trumff is a scumbag but so are the majority of the media so they deserve each other
It doesn’t matter who wins in the row it’s the rest of us who lose
The media wants to run the world and in large proportion they do, well in the UK they do
The only paper supporting Scottish Independence is the National and the rest of the media and Unionists deride it at every opportunity yet they don’t say the same rubbish about the Mail Or the Express or The Telegraph or the Daily Record or the Guardian or the …..on and on
As far as the media and the UK is concerned Scotland and all things Scottish are enemies of their state and when it comes down to it Donnie Trumff will back the media on that one you can be sure
So the media lie about everything says Donnie except when it suits him, just like the people who control the UK
Politicians can’t hide behind the souces have told us rule when they make stupid statements “Journalists” do it all the time, Trumff is creating the same space for himself to lie about anything he wants, whenever he wants
Grouse Beater,
to answer your query, no I don’t write for Breitbart News.
Perhaps though, you could answer a question of mine.
Could you tell me what, in my comments, you disagree with?
@Breastplate,
Firstly, it is not about Trump having killed anybody as yet. That will or will not come through his actions which thus far have been extremely debate able.
This guy fronts the image of the “free” world. Whether you like it or not, whatever Trump says has an affect on other nations.
They base their political and military strategy on such proclamations. Remember Chamberlain and his bit of paper. Germany had up to that time taken little action, but every other nation was preparing for war due to Hitler rhetoric. Do others take no action in case he is only kidding on or being naive.. He set the tone for the world
It is incumbent in the job of president that he also sets the tone. So far it is not good.
Capella says:
18 February 2017 at 2:05 pm
@ “john Ferguson 1:53 – sorry I can’t decipher your last comment – are you using predictive text?”
Bletchley Park would have problems with it, Capella.
I thought it was just me. 🙂 Thanks
Peace Always
While we should not condone the demonisation of a political figure, as a means to fit an oppositions agenda, Trump has shown himself to be a sexist, racist, nasty piece of work who thinks it’s acceptable to ridicule people with disabilities in public!
Alex Salmond was horrendously and unjustifiably demonised, and there is no comparison, he conducted himself with intelligence, and integrity, not perfect, no one is, but way above trump’s league.
Trump displays tyrannical characteristics.
We have to keep an eye on just what he and his admin are doing and are not doing. Read yesterday that Trump just signed over a new law which says that there is no legal protection now for clean water. In other words, fracking, mining, factories etc, can dump toxic waste and it is legal to do so. They do it now, America is littered with toxic waste, waters are polluted, but it was illegal so communities could do something about it. Not now, tough.
Trump, being a climate change denier, and his attacks on science and scientific research should be a concern for us all.
Is it really a matter of swings and roundabouts?
Bob Mack: “Firstly, it is not about Trump having killed anybody as yet.”
Oh, he has, by drones, within 48 hours of taking office, most civilians. Call them doodlebugs if you like, same thing but more efficient in killing.
In addition, there has been a great increase in racial attacks by white Americans on blacks and Mexicans.
Here’s how over 50% of American’s and a lot of his former supporters see him now:
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-duM
@mike cassidy 2.32pm says: “The MSM are arseholes. Trump is an arsehole. etc..”
C’mon Mike, STOP denigrating arseholes.
Mine has done me proud for a good 50 years now and has had to deal with a lot of shit not really of its own making.
People get the MSM and politicians we deserve; like arseholes it’s, erm, an open and shut case.
Personally I think the coverage in Pro-Indy media of Trump is potentially divisive, and an unwelcome distraction. We’re supposed to be about Independence for Scotland, yet there’s been articles all over the place in it about Trump.
Basically speaking, “in terms of the debate” about Independence, as Alex Salmond said in another context, when it comes to Trump except as much as it can help Independence when May holds his hand, who gives a shit?
Ken500 @ 10:17,
Oh dear. You do write some complete tosh at times:
Duh. Look up any history book, FFS. But just for the record here, the Soviet Union (as it was then styled) and Nazi Germany started WW2 together. The then-secret Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact (the respective Foreign Ministers of the two states) was quickly followed by a joint invasion of Poland, Germany to the West and Russia to the East. The Poles had to fight both of them at once.
Somewhat embarrassing for the Allies (“Russia” by then included, after Germany’s abrogation of the Pact and invasion of the Soviet Union), the Germans discovered a mass grave in Katyn where the Soviets had dispatched and buried every Polish officer they had captured in the fighting. So much for the Geneva Convention. The Russians were empire-building then, as they had done in Czarist times before and as Putin aches to do again now.
(And please, don’t regurgitate that propaganda drivel either about “they had to”, because they didn’t have to attack anybody, neither Poland nor Finland either for that matter.)
the bbc’s anti trump line will be transfered seamlessly to us when indyref2 starts
Robert Sutherland: “For the record here, the Soviet Union (as it was then styled) and Nazi Germany started WW2 together.”
Whether you argue that the USSR together with Germany ‘began’ the Second world war – (there was a ‘small’ one prior to that most historians think was the genesis) the Russians certainly paid the price with over 11 million soldiers dead fighting Germany, and over 7 million civilians.
Trump will fashion his own demise. Let’s not reflect the media’s obsession with him here. We have a far more important and honourable aim!
Yes, a particularly extreme example of the sheer bloody waste of state-sponsored military adventurism. Once the fire is lit, no-one can control where the blaze will spread. And everyone gets burned anyway. (Not the first or the last time, alas, as we know only too well.)
Which is one important reason for having a European Union, and one that many seem to have lost sight of lately.
The thing is the (US) msm haven’t really got a clue about Trump and ‘who’ his pals are and of the ‘how’ of why he got there (Potus). They haven’t ‘put’ it together and understood the ‘tools’ that were used in the campaign. Same ‘tools’ they utilised in the EU campaign from the same ‘players’ involved in both campaigns. I have no doubt that these same people are involved across the political spectrum across all the so called ‘western democracies’ at this time in history.
Simply because the msm are the wee elite bubble who don’t really follow the money and have their own agenda and are pals wi a lot of the players in the WH and have been for many decades. Both Dems and Repubs. Same here in Scotland, our msm is full of ex Labour and other close family associations that have in effect created this ‘bubble’ effect that we all too often speak of.
So, the Rev pretty much nailed it in the lead up to the US elections and the EU ref actually and pointed it out on a number of occasions that those attempting to undermine his campaign weren’t really understanding the demograph that his campaign (ours UK wide) was targeting.
So firstly this explains a lot, I’m sure many on here have already read this but some may have missed during the week, from Common Space’s Jamie Patrick:
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10320/jj-patrick-brexit-and-undeclared-data-war-driving-rightwing-campaigns
This shows how far Cambridge Analytica success in both campaigns has taken them, they are now setting up shop in Washington to procure further contracts from various government bodies in the US:
http://archive.is/oChem
The really startling aspect of this isn’t so much about ‘politics’ as it is about the ‘tools’ that are being used and the incredible ‘success’ of those tools in quite literally establishing a ‘base’ that can be repeatedly relied on and grown for ‘future’ application on any issues that any one seeking a platform on just about any issue can tap into…for a price.
That this seems to be the ‘main’ purpose and aim of the Trump campaign all along is both sinister and deeply cynical and the absolute irony of the people targeted paying for their own information to be used to brainwash them on the issues is just an added bonus for these manipulative bastards.
Whilst the above articles highlight some of these aspects. This article from October 2016 from Esquire rather bypassed the mainstream media at the time. This is the opening paragraph and so it is a legitimate source that is reporting from directly inside the Trump campaign at that time:
‘Thursday’s required reading on the subject of Rats: How They Won’t Fck Themselves comes from Bloomberg News, courtesy of Josh Green and Sasha Issenberg, who were allowed inside the guts of the Trump campaign—”Only the best e.coli. Great e.coli!”—to see what’s actually going on with it beyond rallies and baseball caps.
What they found should scare the hell out of two groups that otherwise have little contact with each other—people who care about the health of our democracy, and Republicans.’
http://archive.is/UtsGV
But it goes deeper than just scaring ‘the hell’ out of both of those groups cited, this is something that we all, in a global context and a specific Scottish context have to watch very carefully for as the ‘narrative’ gets shaped’ for us’ and the ‘targets’ of those bastards turns to our cause here in Scotland.
I have no doubt that we are all immersed in ‘our’ take as garnered from the ‘varied’ news sources that we all tune into, but let us not underestimate what is afoot: we are no longer playing in the same ‘field’ as our opponents and let us not underestimate the ‘effects’ of a Trump administration’s ‘reach’ into our political and cultural circumstances.
And keep a very close eye of ‘who’ is involved’ behind any newly formed groups and ‘where’ the money is coming from on our opponents side…I have a decidedly uncomfortable feeling that Cambridge Analytica and Arran Banks et al have their ‘eye’ on Scotland and Trump more or less directed their attention if you recall in relation to ‘windmills’.
Let’s remain ever ‘alert readers’ and not be drawn into pointless in fighting about our differences of view regarding Potus, because those differences are what our enemies want us focused on to ‘mine’ and create divisive narratives that enable them to separate the ‘wheat’ from the ‘chaff’ and procure the ‘exact’ results ‘they’ want.
KISScotland.
ScottishPsyche @ 10.51 am
I think you have the measure of what’s going on.
While the World is distracted by Mr Drumpf’s antics the real nasty work is under way…
Hidden in plain view.
I would go so far as to suggest that those truly invested in Scotland’s independence wean themselves off Facebook….that’s a big part of how they are getting into people’s heads…it would be interesting to have some sort of statistical analysis of the split between those on FB and those not and whether there is any correlation in terms of their ‘outlook’ on Scotland’s Independence?
Not going to happen. Just be aware this is very sophisticated mining taking place and if you read the last article FB is ‘the’ main source of data gathering. It virtually costs them nothing…then it’s just targeting right down to the doorstep.
Think about it?
It’s easy then to see how you can get a ‘disaffected’ part of any electorate to come out even if they ‘traditionally’ have not ever voted and if you can get those less politically ‘savvy’ parts of a population to vote by targeting them specifically you can literally ‘upend’ the consensus, because ‘traditionally’ huge swathes of populations don’t vote for this very reason?
Now ‘they’ have a very well tested set of tools that they know ‘works’. It’s not rocket science to understand ‘why’ this is happening.
People haven’t suddenly become ‘right wing’. Have they?
Trump has called the media the enemy of the American people.
The Scottish media, led by the BBC, is the enemy of the Scottish people, in my view.
lol great artwork Chris 🙂
I think the Americans will need to buy the trumper a lot more dummies to spit out.
Hmm might buy shares in a pacifier company lol
For FFS which country’s independence are we concerned about.
All this wasted time moaning about Trump. Are you all MSM sheep being led into a cul de sac. We have to concentrate ONLY on Scotland.
It’s impossible to meaningfully compare the media in the US with the media in Scotland. Trump’s “bias” memes are most definitely not our “bias” memes.
Firstly, the US media isn’t owned and populated by people dedicated to keeping their country in thrall to a more-powerful neighbour to which they themselves are economically and emotionally linked.
Secondly, most of the US media (The National Enquirer being an obvious exception!) do actively strive towards an objective truth. Which is what Trump hates, because it flatly contradicts his blatant self-propaganda. (Everything he does has to be the “most successful ever”, eg. his latest “biggest college votes” lie, so easily disprovable it hurts.) Whereas most of the media here is stuffed full of deliberate Unionist anti-indy (and anti-EU) distortions, as Stu valiantly exposes day after day.
Thirdly, the US head of state appears to rely on attempting to bypass any and all honest critical judgement (judicial, media, congressional) by making direct appeals to a self-deluded adoring fan base, carefully nurtured as K1 points out upthread. Whereas the UK head of government has virtually all the media and UK parliamentary numbers (including the spineless Corbyn Labour Party) on her side.
The nearest you can get to a parallel here is Nicola in Holyrood having to appeal directly to the people, but in our case it’s over the heads of an organised, dishonest and hysterically-critical media.
Thankfully the US at least has a set of “checks and balances” that hopefully will prevent the worst of Trump’s excesses. And populists always come unstuck eventually, as events increasingly reveal their self-promotion to be a sham, void of any real worth. But Trump looks set to test their constitutional framework far more than “Tricky Dicky” Nixon ever did (which is saying something), and possibly – given his populist tactic of “playing to the gallery” – even to destruction.
Anyone know what are the current odds for Trump’s impeachment before the end of his term?
What’s irrefutable is we had pre Trump, and there will be post Trump. Horrible things, to one extent or another seem inevitable in between.
But…The Donald may be the catalyst for real systemic change.
i.e. The end of neo-liberalistic monetary policies, with connected people power driving the shift away from devil take the hindmost institutional and social dogma.
It ends in farce.
Unless the Republican Party ‘grow a spine’ Robert as they will have to lead the way for any impeachment, I think it highly unlikely…this obviously was the only way they were ever going to ‘get back into play’, they picked him (and his tactics played out and won) so in effect they can ‘wipe their hands of him’ publicly (a little) whilst behind the scenes ‘reap’ the rewards with policies that are completely in line with their Republican agenda.
He’s their monster, so I doubt they will want to impeach?
Their problems come in 2 years with the senate elections…it’s interesting to watch from afar though, I don’t think they care…the ends justify the means with these people. Bit like the Tories in that regard. The Dems much like Labour…are fucked right now.