Some brief thoughts on Donald Trump
Posted on
February 25, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Put your hands on your hearts, readers, and tell us that in the event of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin leading the USA and Russia a year or so from now, you can’t see this actually literally happening. [EDIT: The fight, not nuclear apocalypse. Obviously.]
Look us straight in the eye and tell us there’s a 0% chance.
You can’t, can you?
We live in interesting times.
One is bad and the other is mad. If Trump wins, and I think he will, let’s all emigrate…..to Mars.
Stephen.
And Boris in number 10 as the referee. He likes fair play.
People always say phrases like we live in interesting times. We actually live in the safest most rational time ever.
That’s worrying as I feel that we whole be counting Vladimirs restraint when dealing with a volatile meglimainac
Then again sticking them in a ring alone might be quite productive
I don’t think Donald is much of a chess player. How difficult is it to inherit a fortune then squander most of it on property deals. But then he isn’t really going to be in charge anyway. It’s the military industrial complex (Eisenhower).
Pawn to King four.
Trump wrong footed the Republican establishment by campaigning more by social media rather than the traditional media.
He is no politician per se but rather a salesman. He is a reality TV personality but what reality does his supporters live in? I cringed yesterday when he said at his victory rally in Las Vegas that he ‘loved the poorly educated’.
I’ll be keeping all my fingers and all my toes crossed.
I think Trump is quite shrewd in stirring up the people that are easily led but if he does get into power he will,like all politicians, forget the pre election rhetoric and do something entirely different!
Let them have a square – go.
Dear Uncle Vladimir is a rational human being. He is also a state kleptomaniac and his starting assumptions are not as yours and mine are. But nevertheless to go to another ’80s hit, the Russians do love their children too and Vlad likes his money and power.
i also see no Cuban missile crisis type triggers. It will take that. Syria is not it. Russia didn’t nuke Turkey over that jet, the US didn’t nuke Russia over that civilian airliner over the Chine see way back either. So some miscalculation in Syrian airspace is not going to trigger Armageddon.
Also President Trump will, just like Bush Jr, have grown ups around him. His Chiefs of Staff are grownups who don’t want a nuclear exchange with Russia. His corporate buddies don’t want one either, bad for business.
So, even with those two personalities the world will not go up in nuclear smoke during their co-tenures.
You are being alarmist and unduly pessimistic and have fallen for Western caricatures of Putin.
Trump + Putin = WW3
And UKOK’s got Trident, so toryboy’s can also pile in with their 2% world nukes stockpile British broad shoulders punching above their ridiculous weight, in a nice suit, proper tie, singing rule Britnatia.
“So, even with those two personalities the world will not go up in nuclear smoke during their co-tenures.
You are being alarmist and unduly pessimistic and have fallen for Western caricatures of Putin.”
I’m not talking about a nuclear apocalypse. I’m talking about two men fighting in a pit.
KEEP UP, READERS.
Like, just getting along in the world needs another layer of difficulty. 🙁
One is all that you can score.
Something is being hidden behind this whole charade.
David says:
People always say phrases like we live in interesting times. We actually live in the safest most rational time ever.
True, oh so true.
At least Putin is easy to understand as a traditional machiavellian in a modernist style partly kleptocratic partly despot, all Russian.
Trump, well, Empire of the Dumb, not so much the egotist, opportunist, showman, Trump but the political system and the society that supports it.
Why cant they be like us and have elected private school boys and unelected men in clerical robes running things.
I’m not talking about a nuclear apocalypse. I’m talking about two men fighting in a pit.
KEEP UP, READERS.
I’d watch it
Will it be pay per view or on council telly?
Stu says;
I’m not talking about a nuclear apocalypse. I’m talking about two men fighting in a pit.
KEEP UP, READERS.
Much as Trump would see the media angle, Putin is ex service, I think Putin would take him to the cleaners.
Can you imagine how terrible it would be if the Donald wins in the USA and Boris becomes PM?
We would be condemned to a generation of male politicos sporting the most insane hairstyles they can think of.
Brillo might be tempted into politics yet, you know he wants to.
You are being alarmist and unduly pessimistic and have fallen for Western caricatures of Putin.
For several years, people that live in countries that border Russia have been issued with evacuation instructions, permanently packed belongings, enough food for an evacuation, keep your car permanently full of fuel etc. This is in countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and eastern Poland. Its not UKOK Project Fearing stuff either.
A sober-minded English chum writes:
“Yeah, you can actually see the path to it. Both of them convinced of their personal strength. Trump making unscripted challenges. Neither able to back down. The televised event.”
and don’t forget PM Bojo, haudin’ the jaikets, waitin’ for the cry o’ haun’ers – but from which side?
Trump will not win. He is polling 15% of entire vote. Clinton is just as bad. Long way to go yet. Trump could get shot. Assasinated. He should watch his back.
Democrats/Republican 50/50. Trump polling 30% of Republican support = 15% of total. Once the non runners pull out. Like UKIP, National Front,. They never win, despite all the publicity.
“Much as Trump would see the media angle, Putin is ex service, I think Putin would take him to the cleaners.”
Sure. But you think Trump is rational enough to see that?
Putin is more reliable than US or Westmonster. We shoild invite Russia to set up a submarine base on the Clyde
“Trump will not win. He is polling 15% of entire vote. Clinton is just as bad. Long way to go yet. Trump could get shot. Assasinated. He should watch his back.”
That’s what you’re counting on? Assassination?
I regard Putin smarter than Trump, a lot smarter, but just as paranoid a personality.
After all, he has all those nuclear warheads around his borders, delivered by NATO, the ones the USA (Clinton) said they’d never put there if they (Gorbachev) knocked down the Berlin wall. That must make him and the Russian people very nervous.
I don’t see any Russian warheads parked along the USA’s border, but I do know only the USA has dropped atomic bombs on another nation.
While the US tries hard to justify dropping one bomb, it’s impossible to justify dropping two on the same nation.
If Putin and Berlusconi’s relationship is anything to go by, they might see themselves as likeminded souls and end up best of pals
Trump is used to scrapping in a pit. My son sent me this yesterday, he was asking if Trump will be elected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuesauNtqTU
Will Americans really vote for this man to be President, really?
Re assassination, given the USA’s history on that one I reckon it is poor old Bernie Sanders who would have most to fear if he looked like winning.
In the UK the establishment controlled media does the job metaphorically, so any perceived threat to the plutocracy, like Corbyn, can be dealt with in that way.
Are you Putin forward that we might a menage a trois
with Boris Trump?
This is Forest Gump comprehension with nuclear capability!
Anyone know of a nuclear bunker going cheap?
Wrestlmania 6 ARMAGEDDON: a bare torsoed Putin standing at the ringside holding aloft the torn from his head Donald’s dodgy Syrup. Trump cowers in the corner trying to hide his embarrassment that people see he is bald. Bring it on !
When two tribes go to war…
The 11WW devastated Russia. Russia paid the price for freedom in the West. US nuked Japan.
US/US and France suffered less and keep on bombing the Middle East to bits. They did not learn a lesson. Other counties did.
11WW in Europe
26Million Russians died (1 in 6)
8Million+ Germans died (1in 4)
6Million Jews
6 Million Poles
2Million Americans
1/2 Million French
1/2 Million British
More in Asia/Far East.
Russia and China do no invade but protect their borders because they have been invaded. Create a buffer. Germany and Russia and have been involved in terrible conflict twice in the space of 25 years.
@Kangaroo says: 25 February, 2016 at 10:50 am:
“Putin is more reliable than US or Westmonster. We shoild invite Russia to set up a submarine base on the Clyde
“
According to certain, (Err!), reliable Labour Party sources, those Russian, nuclear armed and powered submarines, are already regularly navigating up the Clyde.
Not so much, “coming up the Clyde in a Banana Boat”, as in a nuclear powered and armed submarine.
Putin’s a fit lad and looks like bother if you spill his pint. Sly fiver on Putin there.
That’s what you’re counting on? Assassination?
Trump is a big fan of the NHS, which must puzzle likes of UK.gov, Murdoch’s goons here and in US, BBC Scotland. He says that health care systems like the NHS are far more efficient and cost effective than the US system. But he also wants much smaller government, build a wall along Mexico’s border and make Mexico pay for it, legalise slavery etc
Vlad the Impaler
Boris Gump
and The Trump Cad
The 3 Hoarse Men of the Apocalypse!
Putin to win if anagrams are any indicator. I invalid Trump.
In the 1970s classic Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Zaphod Beeblebrox was President of the Universe, an over-the-top media figurehead whose job was to distract the masses while the grey men in suits got on with the job of running things.
Sound familiar??
Much as I truly despise Putin with a passion, particularly for his persecution of gay people, he IS an actual global political leader. In contrast, Trump is a rich, bigotted clown.
During the run up to the candidate selections, Trump has alienated around 80% of the USA electorate. Let’s see, he has issues with Latinos/Hispanics, gay people, immigrants, Canadians, muslims, democrats, women, poor people, people who disagree with him…the list goes on, and on.
Whilst all his rhetoric causes whoops of joy from narrow minded bigots in the USA who call themselves ‘republicans’, the fact is, come the actual presidential race, a blind donkey will be elected before Trump.
Republican delirium with Trump, is only reflective of a small percentage of the USA. Most are as horrified as you or I at the notion of Trump getting elected president.
With the rise of new political entities, there is always the temptation to compare them with the rise of the Nazi’s and generally, these ideas are tripe. (SNP, anyone?)
However, in the case of Trump (and Corbyn), when one looks at the backdrop of society disatisfaction with our political leaders and align it with the breakdown in trust over economic matters, along with unfamiliar “stuff” happening (migrants/oil price/ weird little wars etc) there seems reason for concern. And yes, that was a friggin awful sentence.
Adoft rose to prominence against a backdrop of a damaged society – it was the only reason he could flourish. People were sick of “stuff” and demanded change. And of course, elected a forceful nutter. Many years ago I read a book about the collapse of the original DMk and while we have avoided hyperinflation, the accepted financial structures worldwide are on the edge of change. (This was were the story comes about the guy with a wheelbarrow full of money gets mugged. They emptied the money out, then stole the wheelbarrow. Oil is currently cheaper than bottled water)
Maybe the edge of a cliff, maybe not. But change is required as society seems not to like the current Capitalism / Economic Slavery compact.
This Trump guy worries me as he is flourishing in the right conditions.
It will be a crazy threesome:
Don’t forget Boris as PM. 🙂
Trump will be just a continuation of the Reagan-Bush sequence of right-wing nutter presidents, promoted beyond their capability and stupid enough to believe they are actually capable of holding high office.
Like his predecessors, Trump will be a ‘useful idiot’, unable to take decisions independently, because his actions will be determined by those who pull the strings i.e. the Skull and Crossbones society.
Trump is a “Shock Jock” with oodles of money and an ego the size of labour MSP’s erse.
During this campaign he has been plumbing the downwards envelope and is still digging away. Ever time he gets away with some inanity the next one down is verging on insanity.
I wonder if, after his inauguration, he will be taken into a darkened room to meet the Holding Company and shown the Kennedy assassination film from an as yet unseen angle.
Might be the only thing that will stop him.
He scares me, really he does.
There is a high risk of assassination as a US President. There is a precedent. 26K Americans shot each other each year. There is more chance of being killed by a relative or a police officer than a terrorist.
Will the Golf Development get finished?
Surely, even long standing Republicans will vote for the Democrat candidate – rather than have Trump at the helm?
Heedtracker @ 11.12 am
If Trump wins and builds the wall then insists Mexico pays for it I can see the Mexicans sending a few truckloads of the white stuff North and saying there s(n)orted!
They won’t need to assassinate him. Trump has skeletons in his closet, and if it looks like he’s really got a chance to win, they’ll all come out to dance. That won’t deter the loony racist scum who like him now, but it’ll make sure he doesn’t get his fat sweaty hands on the nuclear football.
I’d stick my money on Putin.
Legerwood at 112 am
“If Trump wins and builds the wall then insists Mexico pays for it I can see the Mexicans sending a few truckloads of the white stuff North and saying there s(n)orted!”
Excellent! 🙂
@sensibledave –
That suggestion is far too sensible, even for you.
🙂
Trump might be up for it if Putin wears a blindfold
http://cbsnews.com.co/donald-trump-assaults-blind-man-after-rally/
Ken500 11.05
“Russia and China do no invade but protect their borders because they have been invaded”
You think those two countries are that big by accident!
Oh, and I’m sure the people of Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968 were greatly comforted by the thought that they were not really being invaded, just being borderbuffered.
O/T
BBC Smith report It now seems that the bbc are going to be open and honest now therefore can we expect them to now admit that BBC Scotland are a biased shower or will they just carry on as usual.
@Bugger
Trump scares me too, but I feel a lot of the time he has been deliberately trolling, a kind of a reality TV presidential campaign.
He might get into the ring with Vlad but I don’t think the Donald will get near the Whitehouse. That’s probably wishful thinking but the Republicans, never mind the democrats, haven’t even started to play dirty yet.
Yesterday’s Wall Street Journal
Mitt Romney, on Wednesday called on the 2016 GOP front runner, Donald Trump, to release his tax returns and said he suspects a “bombshell.”
“I think we have good reason to believe that there’s a bombshell in Donald Trump’s taxes,” Mr. Romney said. “Either he is not anywhere near as wealthy as he says he is or he hasn’t been paying the kind of taxes we would expect him to pay or perhaps he hasn’t been giving money to the vets or the disabled like he has been telling us he’s been doing.”
On the same day, old Trump interviews and phone calls to the Howard Stern radio show are being highlighted across the American newsrooms. These show him bragging about f’ing another guys girlfriend and display a level of mysogyny that would make a Spanner blush. If you don’t know who Howard Stern is, look him up. Let’s just say that when it comes to broadcasting he is the antithesis of Mary Whitehouse 🙂
They do have one thing in common.They are both narcissist. That is a dodgy mix in a stand off. Putin portrays himself as the macho male,unflinching in times of danger. He rides horses bare chested,judo,karate. In other words.I am alpha male.
Donald Trump is ego ego ego. He commented about punching someone in the face just the other night. Waterboarding?? Strictly for amateurs.He can think of much worse.
The resultant recipe is not entirely danger free. Imagine a scenario such as Syria where neither wants to lose face .
Tin hats anyone?
Legerwood says:
25 February, 2016 at 11:21 am
Heedtracker @ 11.12 am
A lot of the pressure to not close borders with Mexico and south America comes from within the GOP itself. Just like here in teamGB, slave wage economics needs dirt cheap labour and obviously much of America’s flow back and fore across the Mexican border. He’s also going to cut off millions of Mexicans in states like Arizona.
He’s extremely unlikely to get anywhere near the Whitehouse. He’s got the staggering fcuk wit that is Sarah Palin’s full backing.
I think Trump’s smart enough to know mano a mano Putin would spank him any day of the week. But expect Trump to declare war on Russia, nuke Brazil and land troops in Australia before declaring himself Ceaser of Popeland.
I believe it doesn’t matter who is president of the USA, nothing will change, everything is done to suit corporate America including liberating countries by force wether they like it or not.
Likewise the PM here.
As for Putin, the Russians seem to like him so he must be doing something right by them.
Nearly forgot, Putin would waste him in a square go.
@Robert Louis says:25 February, 2016 at 11:15 am:
” … In contrast, Trump is a rich, bigotted clown.”
In fact much as the likes of Ronnie Raygun and a couple of Bushes and they got themselves elected.
I believe the USA, much like the UK in fact, elect a figurehead to office who is mainly controlled by those, little seen, shadowy figures lurking in the background who wear smart suits and have control of large corporate bank accounts.
Well should that fight be scheduled to happen my money is on Putin, orr Donald is a barrel of lard from what I can see and as for who will vote for dear old trumpy wll those Americans who see him as not being of the political establishment and should the Democrats put Hilary up agains him, well she is seen as having too much baggage, but well perhaps it just will not happen. I have two friends who are Democrats and one who swithers but whose Husband like Trump.
Before unionists rewrite history again as well as McConnell making Trump a Scottish global ambassador in 2006,
From Scotsman 13 May 2006
AS JACK McConnell strode into the 58-storey Trump Tower on New York’s Fifth Avenue last October, he would have been forgiven for thinking how well things were going. Awaiting him was the building’s billionaire owner, who had some good news in store.
Donald Trump wanted to build a new golf course in Scotland: a spectacular multi-million pound development on a pristine stretch of Aberdeenshire beach. McConnell and Trump enjoyed a lunch of shrimps and steak. Along with a photo opportunity, at which Trump made favourable noises about investing in Scotland, it completed a satisfactory few hours for the First Minister.
And on 23 April 2006
Under Freedom of Information legislation, Scotland on Sunday obtained documents from Scottish Enterprise (SE) revealing the government’s close working relationship with Trump.
The billionaire’s golf company was lavished with attention. Two memos released by SE show that – at a cost of £4,800 to the public purse – the agency paid for two helicopter tours of Scotland, taking in the golf course site, as they showed off the country to their deep-pocketed American friends. A further e-mail shows they offered to meet the £40,000-£50,000 cost of a feasibility study into the Menie Links site. Trump’s people were impressed, “raving” in August last year about the way enterprise agency officials were courting them
From 23 April 2006 https://archive.is/ihayG
O/T BBC John Beattie show discussing Scottish Six
Sorry I missed your comment Robert Peffers but yes I think many in the States would agree with you and therefore the few people who can actually use the democratic right to vote.
@Grousebeater,
Quite right about the USA. As the only country to incinerate men, women and babies on a massive scale using WMD not once but twice, we’re statistically more likely to be nuked by the Americans.
A strong Putin is a necessary evil to balance global power. Iraq, Syria et al were invaded when Russia was at it’s weakest. America and it’s special relationship partner will be more reticent now that Vlad is back. He’s already scuppered their plans in Syria.
The people he hangs out with leave a lot to be desired though. He thinks Sepp Blatter should get the Nobel prize for peace and Bernie Ecclestone thinks Vlad should be in charge of Europe. I mean C’mon!
Breastplate says:
25 February, 2016 at 11:41 am
As for Putin, the Russians seem to like him so he must be doing something right by them.
As do the real Syrians. Putin and Russia for that matter, are completely demonised by the western media. He is not a nice guy but he is winning. The US and UK are desperately trying to save face in Syria, while Russia now holds all the cards. That said, I hope the US/NATO keeps their poodles Turkey and Saudi Arabia under control – they seem to be determined to start WW3. Putin will not back down, and Obama knows it, but Turkey and the Saudis are getting desperate as things have gone belly up for their sponsored terror groups since the Russins came to Assad’s assistance (the only nation there legally (invited) by the way. If a NATO country is attacked, then we all go to war, but what happens if that NATO member is the one attacking? We may soon find out. If that happens, we won’t have to worry about the next presidential election – there won’t be one.
I dread to think what the world would be like with Trump, Putin as presidents forget Johnson being prime minister
he would be non entity on the World stage.
But can you even begin to imagine the chaos that would be caused between Trump and Putin in Europe, and the trouble Trump would create in the Middle East
In your scenario Rev, I can picture it, Trump mouthing off for aboit 3 seconds before Putin strides purposefully over from his corner and WHAP! Windbag Trump is on his way to ER / A&E without regaining consciousness And missing all his front teeth.
Not a fan of Putin, but Id pay good money to see that outcome. Even if it did only last seconds
Trump is the most aggressive individual to run for office in the modern era. If you diss him he has no reservations about destroying you: see how he has replied to recent jibes from Mitt Romney. It provides wonderful theatre, and America is ready for a bully after the urbane Obama; the pendulum has fully swung.
The fact that he is not taking money from rich donors to run his campaign is a massive turn -on to a nation swamped in political bribes.
But the single most reason that Trump could go all the way is what the Rev highlights in the above clip. Americans will relish seeing Trump duke it out with the likes of Putin. He’s the popcorn candidate.
Or maybe Trump will just go at him with a golf club!
And to think golf had just managed to move in to the 20th century.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/feb/24/donald-trump-randa-golf-turnberry-the-open-championship-martin-slumbers
I tend to find that thoughts on Donald Trump are never brief enough.
You don’t get to be a billionaire if you don’t surround yourself with smart people.
Trump is taking the Michael and uses the media for grandstanding his points, he isn’t anybodys fool and the msm have a love/ hate relationship with him. Trump is doing well as this is the poorest bunch of candidates ever and Trump knows it.
If Trump does win you can guarantee one thing that Trump International will be the beneficiary.
As for our politicians nobody is going to tell me our lot in WM are any better, Blair was a patsy, Brown was supposed to be this financial guru who sold gold for a 3rd of the price. Darling was the worst chancellor ever. Osbourne will take the debt to 2.2 trillion by 2020. Cameron cant answer a question by Angus Robertson without turning his back as he cant lie to someone’s face, he bullied Corbyn and Milibland with snide remarks to deflect the questions.
No the US politics are different as you have to be like Barnum the showman. Look at Obama, achieved diddly squat but when he makes a speech, look how many pauses he does for effect, great actor, lousy politician.
Trump a shoe in and i see the best ever relationship with Russia as Putin and him both showmen
@Luigi, agreed, my thoughts too
Much as it would be fun to watch Putin kick 9 shades of shit out of the Donald, this pre-supposes that the USA is a democracy, and silly things like votes actually count.
You can bet your last hanging chad on Shillary being the next president.
Trump is merely a less hirsute sideshow Bob.
In the red corner the undefeated champion ,ex KGB, known as the Kremln Mauler.
Record defence of the Russian State,winning by several knockouts of Western opponents by duplicity and downright aggression . I give you VLAAADDDIIIMEEEER PUUUTTTIIIN !
In the red white and blue corner, I give you as yet untried Yankee Doodle,xenophobic and torture loving contender,who boasts about business and personal conquests like no other could do. He weighs in at a hefty 3 billion pounds . Known for his short temper and trademark of delivering knockout hair do’s.
The referee for tonight’s bout will be the United Nations and a UN peacekeeping
force.
Enjoy. ( pay for view .also available on subscription)
Trumpet should have used his wealth to rebuild Hadrian’s Wa’ and electrify the fence, to keep the Southern Carpetbaggers Wetbacks crossing the Tweed.
More seriously, much of the US including Mexico was stolen from Mexico, the Spanish, French and Brits, who stole it from the Native Americans and built their economy on slaves. When the US invaded what is now Texas they brought their slaves with them.
It was European immigrants and wetbacks, who crossed the pond, introducing, genocide, mass real estate robbery and founded their economy on slavery and adopted Finance Capital, the highest stage of capitalism.
@muttley79
Do you think he is starting to believe the shite he spouts?
Logical progression of all sociopaths
It doesn’t matter what rhetoric has been used out on the stump, in the circus which is the election process in the US. On the day that the successful presidential candidate steps into the Oval Office, he/she will be met by a deputation from the Pentagon and the shadow state who will tell them, ” Now THIS is what you are actually going to do.”
1956 was 10 years after 11WW. Russia was still devastated. Their prime concern was it did not happen again. Paronoid. Armies can sweep into Russia but they can’t get out, especially in the Russia winter. Russia militarised and spent too much on the military which affected their economy. US and Russia started an Arms race which was bankrupting both countries. That led to arms reduction agreements. Czechoslavakia ended up splitting up. Hungary does well economically. .
Poland was returned to Russian dominance by US/UK at Yalta. The invasion of Poland caused the 11WW. It was all a waste of time. Germany, Japan was not allowed to re-arm. So did better economically. Russia supplies Germany with Gas. A pipeline under the Baltic Sea.
China has done well economically but is not democratic. Universal suffrage. The US has overthrown elected governments in South America.
‘Do what your told or a bullet’
The culprit never gets found. ‘The Land of the free’?
Well, on the plus side, only one of them is a nut job. The other one doesn’t spend much on hairdressers.
Large countries? – The EU.
Then again if the Donald did reach the Whitehouse I think the first conversation in the Oval office would go something like this.
“Mr President, before you on your desk is your CIA and FBI files.”
PLAY BALL!
If Trump wins and becomes the US president, what an indictment of American voters. The lunatics will truly be running the asylum.
Putin, is a very experienced politician and he is loved by the Russian masses, basically for making them feel proud again, and has in general, made their life better this time around.
Trump will never get the better of him, Putin will smile, shake hands, then do exactly whatever he wants.
O/T Kezie had a good skelping from Nicola today.
If “herr pullin” is allowed it will be a walk-over or comb-over!
heedtracker says:
25 February, 2016 at 11:41 am
Legerwood says:
25 February, 2016 at 11:21 am
Heedtracker @ 11.12 am
“”He’s extremely unlikely to get anywhere near the Whitehouse. He’s got the staggering fcuk wit that is Sarah Palin’s full backing.””
Even Americans who you would expect to know better can be remarkably ill-informed. On my first visit to the USA in the early 1960s I was asked by one lady at a lunch party, who was of Polish descent and relatively well travelled, if we were getting enough food in Britain and did we have buses in Scotland!
On my last visit about two years ago it was Thanksgiving and one lady, well heeled, well travelled, asked me how we celebrated Thanksgiving in Scotland! And lots of similar anecdotes in between times.
So for some Americans, from a surprising range of backgrounds, Trump and Palin are towering intellects.
Putin v Trump ?
Ex KGB officer and Judo Black belt v A very bad hairdo!
Trump is a special kind of fruitcake, i would have preferred the guy who he wanted to punch had stood up and called the trumpet out in public.
There is a shocking lack of Presidential candidates of and real note.
I look at them all and despair that one of them will be in charge of such an influential country.
Putin must be loving it.
geeo says:
Yeah, and laughing his socks off!
“Quentin Quale says:
Putin to win if anagrams are any indicator. I invalid Trump.”
lolol
I love a good anagram.
Robert Peffers Don’t scoff at Russian Nukes on the Clyde, due to
Official Secrets act can’t go into detail but it has happened.
I presume that NATO Nukes have also entered Russian territory.
It’s all part of the game.
Lets hope Trump doesn’t have Sarah Palin as his running mate.
Even Americans who you would expect to know better can be remarkably ill-informed.
That kind of sweeping generalisation doesn’t mean much at all. America is the probably the greatest country the world has ever seen, and the most beautiful. Its like a giant Scotland, without all the proud Scot buts, BBC Scotland reprobates etc.
Comparison is tricky but US GDP is around $17 trillion, Russia’s is approx $2 trillion. California alone creates more wealth than Russia. Putin is basically a dictator, currently feeding off civil war in the middle east to shore up nationalist support. He did much the same in the Ukraine but its not worked there. He’s a dangerous enemy but WW3 is probably not on his agenda.
Anyway, wonder how Bomber Bliar/Crash Gordon Lab gov cabinet pre Iraq invasion with the Bush admin went? “Yes but Tony, how will this play with middle England? Rule Britannia, Union jacks, battle of Baghdad, far enough away, Brits love good war etc” UKOK maniacs or Russian and Americana ones?
I think it would be more likely if Clinton won the presidency – the nuclear apocalypse that is – as she tries to prove to the world that she’s got a bigger cock and balls than her husband does.
‘Vlad’s just killed our mockingbird,get me the president on the line’
My New Orleans acquaintance has let her strong views be known to me for a good few years now,(she hates Obama).
1. Clinton is detested.
2. Sanders is a ‘red under the bed’ commie.
Using her ‘logic’,by default the Donald is in a good place……thanks to the skewered media,the american public are very,very jumpy,afraid of everything/everybody and angry.
Just need a statement from Trump ‘get off your milk and drink your horse’ :-/………..and guess what,’done’ deal.
It all feels sad,so,’they call me MR Tibbs’ last century……. deja vu all over again.
Big Mac with Decaf ? or Cream Tea with Strawberries ?….either way or both…I’ve got the boke !
I am going to take this literally……. My money’s on Putin
In fact…….I would gie him honners if he asked
(5% chance and a maniacal laugh)
Two disgusting old men, among many, who would just about be willing to play bigger abd bigger war games and destroy our kids’ futures and that of the planet. That’s the long and short of it, whether these gits would actually sit in their fckg bunkers and press the button.
What a weird situation we humans have created, well some have created. Sad really, when you really think about it.
OT Warning…
Just reading the BBC Scottish six guff, they see it as “shape the day’s news in a way relevant to Scottish audiences”.
Which is still the colonial narrow minded dead end that guarantees its failure.
What is not wanted is propaganda directed at Scottish audiences, what is wanted is modern news, national and international, made in Scotland from the viewpoint of people in Scotland.
@heedtracker. In Lithuania the instructions are to stay put if you hear shooting etc. Roads etc are to be kept free.
I lived there for 12 years. Russia is enemy number one and there has been a huge increase in people joining the Sauliu sajunga, a volunteer rifle association, since Ukraine.
Sadly, the only way to stop the Russians reaching the Baltic would be tactical nukes. Lithuania is prime tank country, Lithuania has no strike planes and the Baltic airspace is patrolled by NATO countries on a rolling roster. It is about 3 jets at any one time.
I doubt that anyone there sees Putin as a normal leader. Thing is, they are an independent country with no oil and didn’t even have a proper currency when they became independent. That didn’t stop them leaving a union which took more than it gave back.
Ohh its SSSSNNNNPPPP bad day concerning councils on the State Broadcaster news today !! make no mistake.
Having a right good go at blaming ESSSEENNNPPPEEE / Scot Gov.#
No link with Westminster pocket money now.
Good to hear the cooncil rep tripping over the word democracy repeatedly (sounded like he hasn’t a clue what it is )
Which is still the colonial narrow minded dead end that guarantees its failure.
If its made by BBC Scotland, no change, Scots are shit, Scotland’s shit, Rangers, Rangers, Rangers, royals, royals, royals, Rangers, there’s been a murder, you shits.
And now the weather.
Scary, I tell you scary. Trumpet chooses Palin as his running mate and wins……Fuckin’ scary or what?
I’m not sure why some people believe that the Russians were involved in the violent overthrow of the Ukranian People’s own democratically elected government but I’m all ears.
A frightening prospect or is it ?
To be fair i think Clinton is the most dangerous now that the Bush is out,she is a warmonger neocon hawk.
The Donald not having been in politics is clear of that charge,and anyway even if he does get in its not likely he will get to do all the bonkers stuff he has said and nor will Bernie with his sensible stuff,the US like the UK is an establishment based plutocracy that will defend the status quo of the rich neo liberals ask Obama with all his grandiose ideas of change.
If anything the positive is there is still 2 potential presidents who are not being backed by the usual suspects so it looks like Americans may be wising up to just who controls their politicians.
The question is will their parties back them for example if Donald gets the presidential nomination from the republican party and is running against Clinton i think we know who the big money republicans will secretly back.
I am hoping for a showdown with Donald v Bernie the outcome will be a dilemma for big money in both parties it will be the first time in a long time they have not had their puppet in the Whitehouse,I am hoping Bernie wins though he makes a lot of sense.
In the event of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin leading the USA and Russia a year or so from now…
… it will be the dampest squib possible. Trump will be well and truly sat on by those who sat on Obama and made him such an equal disappointment to his voters — just as Trump will be for his disgruntled voters.
Putin, meanwhile, will continue to be a businessman and Russian policy will continue to revolve around what is best for his business interests. The Crimean thing was not about national issues, it was about Putin’s private business interests being thwarted by the Maidan coup and nothing else. They have a word in Russian business for what happened in the Crimea: “raiding” (the same as the English word).
Why on earth would two leaders want to go to war when they can sit at home in peace and make war on their own people?
The head of NATO is a former Leninist and the Russian sovereign wealth fund is run by Goldman Sachs bankers! War is what you make happen to third-world countries, while selling arms to both sides, not what you engage in yourself!!
doh clicked submit by accident.
And Vlad will just keep annoying them by not doing what they want,but is actually a useful enemy ,the Americans have tried the China scary,N,Korea scary but when it comes down to justifying billions of dollars on the military machine nothing beats the old Russia scary.
Breastplate says:
25 February, 2016 at 1:43 pm
I’m not sure why some people believe that the Russians were involved in the violent overthrow of the Ukranian People’s own democratically elected government but I’m all ears.
Try all your eyes then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present)
@carjamtic
Aye it’s a strange world in American politics and money buys the media access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0hytuh6GIk
PS:
FMQs today. Guess what? Somebody took a hell of a beating!
http://tinyurl.com/h3uft4j
PPS:The Kraken wakes.
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon battles alien invasion terrorising UK in new BBC drama debut.
https://archive.is/vwRW9#selection-529.0-529.91
Good read too much better than ‘The day of the Triffids’
Heedtracker, read my post again
US has the most debt in the world per capita $28Trillion? Prints money. How is the wealth created. Protected trade etc. trade barriers. Illegal invaded and take resources from othe countries. US Multinational do not pay tax. Unfair competitive trade. The EU trade deal is to ensure EU companies can trade in the US. Fair trade.
US Gov puts a lot of money in research and development. Create patents, create a monopoly. US multinational charge what they want (over) and pay no tax which give them unfair monopoly. Not fair trade. Weaken the world economy. Creates conflict.
American workers work long hours. Get few holidays and don’t travel. Naive. One of the most unequal countries in the world.
Heedtracker, read my post again
Breastplate says:
25 February, 2016 at 1:43 pm
I’m not sure why some people believe that the Russians were involved in the violent overthrow of the Ukranian People’s own democratically elected government but I’m all ears.
Are you not sure now?
Not worth the entry fee, donate instead to WOS.
All the smart money would be on Putin.
Lightning strike to the thrapple right on
the starting bell Putin Trump in his box.
Goodnight Vienna!
🙂
All disputes should be settled that way between the people who start them.
Or using ‘Deadliest Warrior” type re-enactments.
Ok Hedtracker, be specific and tell me what exactly it is you don’t agree with in what I said.
Try not to be childish
@Breastplate,
during the second World War,the Germans had battalions of SS who were made of of Ukrainian volunteers. Many Ukrainians also served in the death camps as guards.
There has always been a strong right wing tendency in Ukraine,
When the government was overthrown by groups linked to these neo fascists Russia had no hesitation in creating a situation where it represented the threat as real and dangerous. Russia needed an excuse to protect its territorial and very important strategic assets in the Crime. Recall that Russian troops who invaded bore no insignia but we’re portrayed as militia.
They would never,ever allow a fascist controlled government on their border without making it known it was unacceptable and would be challenged.
Remember also the USA and the Bay of pigs fiasco where America used Cuban exiles in an attempted coup of Castor. These things happen regularly.
heedtracker wrote:
“If its made by BBC Scotland, no change, Scots are shit, Scotland’s shit, Rangers, Rangers, Rangers, royals, royals, royals, Rangers, there’s been a murder, you shits. And now the weather”
LMFAO
🙂
Cheers, best laugh i’ve had all day!
Apologies for spelling mistakes in my post.My predicate Text is going do lally today
In the Ukraine Russian speakers in areas which depend on Russian trade etc wanted to stay within the Russian spere and took up arms. The Ukraine gov put in troops against them and were discriminating against Russian speakers. German SS divisions were Ukrainian.
‘Banking crisis’ Ukraine wanted a loan from the EU. Merkel would not agree. The President went to Russia for a loan. Ukraine wants closer ties with Europe. The trouble kicked off. The President cleared off and a new President was voted in. An oligarch who had accumulated £Billions, while the Ukraine needed a loan.
The US/UK banking crisis caused the trouble in the Ukraine. It ended up the US gave Ukraine a loan. Now the Ukraine is paying for Russian gas with money borrowed from the US.
Trump will need Putin to protect him from fellow Americans.
Bob Mack, thank you for your reply but I don’t for one minute doubt Russian involvement now.
I’d see that as always inevitable with the situation as is.
My point is that I don’t believe the Russians instigated the change in government.
Would you agree with that?
Official, bookies all paying out now for a Putin win in first round
honest
I’ve not watched much of the Presidential debates in the US.
But watching Trump vs Ben Carson – Trump looked sane. Watching Trump vs Jeb Bush – Trump was the polite and well informed one.
The whole thing is morbidly fascinating.
Breastplate
It’s OK, you’re not going nuts, some of us get your point.
While not Russia…..my jury is still out on who did
If it were to happen it will with the help of his good friend, Vincent Kennedy Macmahon and will take place at the grandest spectacle of it all.
Wrestlemania 33
@Breastplate,
I would tend to think that the West had more input than the Russians in this instance,given that the incumbent government and Russia had worked in tandem.
However after hostility started I believe that Russia exacerbated the situation to achieve their desired outcome. Anonymous attacks by persons unknown on Russian minorities etc.
Ahundredthidiot, my guess would be that it was wholly manufactured in the West
Agreed Bob Mack, I know that Putin is no angel but I don’t like the way people put all the blame at Russia’s door.
Anyway, time for the school run.
US initiated regime change in Syria. Libya is a hellhole, no government, going on 5 years, but some leap to side with western bull, and blame Russia for any conflict.
Putin enjoys 80%+ of support from the population, that should at least get him a hearing from those that rage against WM propaganda.
Russia does not persecute gay people, again a lot of that was engineered. However, they do not allow gay pride parades. They have prosecuted some of the gang’s that were attacking gay people.
I don’t think Putin is a hero by any means but he is the only one truly pursuing Daesh, to the extent the yanks have asked him to stop bombing, because Americans advising so called moderate terrorists, were endangered.
American foreign policy, and their secretive, murdering rampage across the world is the real danger to us all. Clinton is a war hawk, and there is probably more danger from her for conflict. She disgusts me.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-has-installed-a-neo-nazi-government-in-ukraine/5371554
Some parts of Europe are quite ready to put the blame at Russia’s door as they’ve experienced Russian ‘makinacija’ and ‘maskerovka’ often enough. They have form but so do the Americans when it comes to coups.
Off-topic but, I think relevant
I would back Putin to beat Trump easily, however, if “Mad Vlad” fancies a real challenge against an opponent who will not back down – he should have a square go with Dippity Dug.
I have just watched the video of today’s FMQs; yet again Kez got her arse well skelped by the Nippy Sweety, but, fair play to the lassie – she keeps coming back for more.
Now, even Kim Jong Ruth is joining-in and giving her pelters as she (KJR) stands up.
It’s cruel, car-crash TV.
Off topic, but BBC Scotland journalists furious at plans to create 60-70 more jobs for scottish Six.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14300023.Turmoil_at_BBC_Scotland_as_journalists_threaten_to_block__Scottish_Six_/
American foreign policy, and their secretive, murdering rampage across the world is the real danger to us all. Clinton is a war hawk, and there is probably more danger from her for conflict. She disgusts me.
But if not for the US, all of mainland Europe would have become Soviet Russian communist state-lets after WW2. East Germany was a good example. And if not for the US, the Japanese Empire would have taken control of much of the far east, including China, certainly Australia and New Zealand, possibly India, during WW2. Genocide in China was already under way before Pearl harbour.
All Putin demonstrates today is, if you have a nuclear weapons arsenal and threaten the world with them, you’re a world player. This is also why our imperial masters wont ever give up Trident.
Having WMD’s accrues a great deal of nation state stuff that take a long to explain and understand, which I dont.
@Bugger
Do you think he is starting to believe the shite he spouts?
Logical progression of all sociopaths
I have not got a clue, but Trump is basically the antidote to getting sane political advise from your advisors. Trump is basically rewriting all the rules of politics, he made a comment about a female presenter having a period, he openly mocked a disabled person, he said he wanted a square go with a heckler, he denigrated Muslims and Mexicans. All of these things should be a massive No-No. Trump appears utterly shameless, he has no seeming embarrassment at all. What Trump is terrifyingly good at is to attract all those who are in various stages of alienation and disaffection in America into his orbit. Has Trump been channelling his own warped uber capitalist version of this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Society-Spectacle-Guy-Debord/dp/0946061122/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456412557&sr=1-1&keywords=guy+debord+society+of+the+spectacle
Funny you should put this post up today Rev
I wrote this @ 5.00oclock this morning
What the hell is wrong with America these days?
they seem hell bent on supporting a man who thinks the sight of a wind farm seven miles offshore is SO repugnant that he is prepared to spend as much as it takes to grind the Scottish government down until he gets his way, but has absolutely no concern about watching an endless stream of flag-draped coffins being unloaded from US air force planes!
If it wasn’t for the US there would be no nuclear weapons in Scotland or anywhere else. They were produced by California University. Russia suffered more than any other country in the 11WW.
When my cousins in the States are talking about coming home or heading to NZ if it is a Trump v Clinton fight then they are worried. They view them as bad as each other.
The Disreprting
Atter five years Putin has succeeded in getting a cease fire in Syria. It starts on Saturday.
IMO Putin probably believes he is acting in the best interests of Russia. Perhaps he is! He probably has got rich out of so doing, but then so do most leaders!
However, who is Trump acting on behalf of? Not the USA. At best a subset of the subset of right wing oddballs. The majority of Americans are probably just as shocked as we are.
However, their really weird electoral colleges can get the oddest characters into that top job 🙁
Never fear the Scottish Six take on it all will be SNP BAD in one way or another.
Here is the clock, the TRUMPton Clock,telling the time steadily ,sensible, never to quickly, never too slowly, telling the time for TRUMPton.
The soldier boys from Pippin Fort are guarding the new TRUMPton wall, built by Chippy Minton to guard TRUMPton perimeter. He’s got heavy machine guns and landmines to stop those wet back bastards from Chigley, and those towelheads from Camberwick Green from invading TRUMPton. Windy Millar has been denounced by PC McGarry number 453, and is being hung by the baws from the windmill.
Mayor Trump does look pleased.
Stephen.
In a real fight toe to toe the Donald would last 3 seconds before Vlad put him in an Shime-waza lol
@ken500
It’s very sad that the Russian contribution to WW2 and their losses, appear to have been airbrushed out. That’s the way of the propaganda machine.
@Heedtracker, I obviously missed Putin’s threat of using nuclear weapons.
heedtracker wrote:
“But if not for the US, all of mainland Europe would have become Soviet Russian communist state-lets after WW2”
WHIT? And if my aunty had baws she’d be my uncle!
Anyway, and if i’ve got my history correct, WW2 may never have happened if the good old US of A spent less time making and supplying munitions to Germany during WW1. $$$$$$$$$$
I actually think Trump would be more of a pragmatist and more statesmanlike in the unlikely event he became President.
He is less beholden to the hawk lobbyists than the corrupt Clinton and does not see Russia as an enemy.
I think Trump and Putin would be more likely to become lovers than enemies.
If it wasn’t for the US there would be no nuclear weapons in Scotland or anywhere else. They were produced by California University. Russia suffered more than any other country in the 11WW.
UKOK built its own nukes Ken, air drop, then missiles and battle field tactical. They were deployed but not used in the Falklands war and only were only decommissioned late 90’s, probably for START.
Various posts mention how bad it was for the US to drop two nuclear bombs on Japan In 1945, which stopped the war.
My father who had already served five years in the Royal Engineers at the time, was en route to the troopship which was to take his regiment to Japan for the invasion of that country, which had sworn to die to the last man in its defence. They had refused all overtures to surrender.
President Truman had been advised by his military commanders that they estimated a million Allied casualties in the invasion, ( there would have been millions of Japanese casualties too) so in the balance of things it as the right thing to do, and saved millions of lives, perhaps including my father.
It is always a dilemma to pick the lesser of two evils, but what else could they do?
When Trump turned up in the running, I said he’d win it. I still stand by that.
‘Einstein and Nuclear weapons’ – look it up.
President Trump might put Trident-on-the-Clyde in a different light 🙁
I’ll leave this here for heedtracker, who asserts we might be speaking Russian, without the glorious USA. Even though we shouldn’t underestimate the American role, how does that justify what they do today?
From Wiki
Viktor Zemskov–Zemskov maintained that the population loss due to the war was 20 million, including 16 million direct losses and 4 million deaths due to the deterioration in living conditions. He maintains that the Russian Academy of Science figure of 26.6 million total war dead includes about 7 million deaths due to natural causes based on the mortality rate that prevailed before the war. Zemskov maintains that military dead numbered 11.5 million, including nearly 4 million POWs. He maintains that the figure of 6.8 million civilian deaths in occupied regions was overstated because it included persons who were evacuated to the rear areas. He submitted an estimate of 4.5 million civilians who were Nazi victims or were killed in the occupied zone. Zemskov maintains that the government figure of 2.1 million civilian deaths due to forced labor in Germany was inflated compared to German wartime records that put the deaths of forced workers at 200,000.[43]
Atomic weapons were developed because of the German threat. US spread them throughout Europe and the rest of the world. Nuked Japan (to intimidate Russia?) Just authorised Iran.
Vlad would do him, he fights lions and tigers and bears, oh my
We should be supporting Mad Vlad anyway we might need him to protect us from Totally mad Trump who’ll likely be the first one one the Mexican wall with a machine gun mowing down the slowest runners while he’s flanked by scantily clad American Bikini girls
Shouldn’t have mentioned the girls there should I
Fireproofjim says:
“the right thing to do”
Probably. Kill 10000s to save 1000000s. Conventional fire bomb air raids had killed many more.
However, something else to stick in the mix. Weapons designers, manufacturers and military users always like to try their latest gadgets in a real scenario. Experience is gained. Also if successful, any potential future enemies get a demonstration of the latest shit at your disposal.
Nuking Japan was also driven by those objectives.
@Fireproofjim,
The Japanese navy was destroyed therefore they could not use the sea lanes for food and material. The air force was totally nullified to the extent that the USA could roam the skies at will. They still had an army though much reduced.
The Japanese were self sufficient in arable farming but relied heavily on fishing which would have been impossible. They invaded China for raw mareials such as iron ore,copper,rubber,oil,etc having none of their own
In other words,they were totally isolated without the means to continue war if we maintained a blockade of their coast.
The chance to test the bomb was too good to pass up.
The triumphantalist glee from Unionists when Natalie McGarry was arrest in Turkey, she is pro-Kurdish, and the disappointment when she was quickly released.
It is a dilemma. It is reported that Japan was close to surrender (or even had agreed to surrender). It was on it’s last legs. Starving. There are some reports Japan could have been defeated. The surrender at Singapore but Japanese supply routes were seriously extended. Asia helped the Japanese. They wanted rid of British rule.
Japanese invaded China. Nanking? The British invaded China and other countries. Opium War.
@Dr Jim
Think you got away with it, and in any case, scantily clad ladies go a long way to selling all those guns, across the pond.
On the subject of conflict, how’s this for a coincidence.
The EU has just passed a resolution that sale of arms to Saudi must stop, due to their killing in Yemen.
That’s UK and France in a strop.
o/t but great article by Derek Bateman on BBC’s Scottish Six
http://derekbateman.co.uk/
Bob Mack @3.57
I agree with everything you say regarding the condition of Japan in 1945, and it might have been possible to blockade them and starve them into submission. This too would have cost millions of Japanese deaths and, regardless of hunger, they were determined to die to defend the sacred homeland. As they had shown on Okinawa and a hundred other places.
Perhaps a demonstration of the Atomic bomb in a coastal bay would have been sufficient rather than dropping it on cities. We will never know, but my dad did not have to board that troopship, for which he was extremely grateful.
Incidentally, despite my comment on the possible justification of using the bomb in 1945, I am very anti nukes and Trident.
Nuke versus conventional fighting forces is never a competition. Soldiers are trained to fight and have a chance of getting out alive. Civilians standing under a nuke have zero chance. That aside, the RAF done a ‘good job’ at Dresden, killing more civvies than both nukes put together!
Our brave boys and girls and all that
Valerie says:
25 February, 2016 at 3:54 pm
I’ll leave this here for heedtracker, who asserts we might be speaking Russian, without the glorious USA. Even though we shouldn’t underestimate the American role, how does that justify what they do today?
Big questions! Im not asserting. Russia defeated Germany in WW2. Allied bombing, North Atlantic blockades and the D day invasions also but by far it was Russia what won WW2 in Europe. If D day had failed, and it could have, Stalin would have taken over the whole of western Europe. The cold war front line would have started at Calais, although its possible that the Allies would have nuked Germany too, if Russia began to lose.
In the far east, Japan would have taken over all British empire territory. The US stopped them and got them out. WW2 was the defeat of the British Empire and other European countries empires collapsed, like the French, Dutch, Belgium’s etc. Much of the post war imperial propaganda focused on imperial collapse fighting off communism. The French went to war with the Vietnamese, the British in Malaysia, in the “Emergency”
WW2 should also be called the World Empire wars, or the end of the British Empire wars. Fascist Germany wanted a British style Empire, fascist Japan wanted a British style Empire. Where are the empires now.
And one other small point, Japan were not prepared to fight to the last man, proof if it were needed by their surrender.
@Fireproofjim,
I think any rational human being would have been grateful..It is only with hindsight we can see alternative strategies which may have worked. The Psyche of the Japanese is a little strange to many Westerners. However we have to remember that many civilians on Okinawa and other islands had not killed themselves ( sepuccu), out of reverence for the Emperor, but rather out of fear of the Americans,
Needless to say that Japanese government Propoganda had told them the Americans would torture them and eat the children. They believed this.
We have to remember that though the Japanese were seen as cruel ,my own grandfather told me stories of live captured Japanese being given barbed wire neckties and dragged behind bren gun carriers by Australian troops, He witnessed this himself.
Truth is always a casualty in war.
I stupidly, but briefly checked btl comments on Hootsmon story ‘re McGarry.
Disgusting and vicious.
I seriously worry at the levels of outright aggression expressed. I’m much more circumspect about posting on media sites these days.
Just asking that question, Stuart …it certainly throws up some serious imagery of these two either running around in circles taunting each other (but never actually fighting); one being chased by the other; or low and behold and surprise us all – they go at each other tooth and nail with an unbridled ferocity!
Can even hear the theme of Two Tribes being played out amongst the various scenarios!
That would be awesome to watch. Would probably be on pay per view though. Still all Vlad would need to do is pull The Donalds’s hair and it game over.
Ahundredthidiot @4.27
The Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man until the Emperor broadcast to the nation to say that due to the deployment of a “new and cruel weapon” they would have to “think the Unthinkable” and surrender. If he had not broadcast there would have been no surrender and the horrendous casualties would have occurred.
As for your rather foolish comments on the bombing of Dresden, decrying what you sarcastically call “our brave boys and girls”, you have ignored the fact that these bomber crews were under orders from the politicians and any blame rests with them.
@ Breastplate. I believe the Ukranian coup was yet another “Western” backed uprising by right wing neofascists. There’s plenty of online research on this e.g. the Canadian based website Global Research has published a great deal about it. Here’s just one example:
“In the Ukraine case, there was even an intercepted phone call just weeks before the Feb. 22, 2014 coup revealing Nuland handpicking the new Ukrainian leaders – “Yats is the guy,” she said referring to Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who would become the post-coup prime minister – as Pyatt pondered how “to midwife this thing” and Nuland dismissed the European Union’s less aggressive approach with the pithy remark, “F**k the EU!”
There’s plenty more. The history of US and UK backed “popular uprisings” in the Middle East, Latin America and Eastern Europe shows that “Western” governments backed every right wing, tin pot dictator that ever lived.
It’s always about capturing resouces.
Russia sits on a vast area of natural resources, oil, gas minerals, plus 6,000 miles of pristine forest stretching to the Kamchatcka Peninsula. It’s intolerable that their oligarchs control that instead of “Western” oligarchs.
I put “Western” in quotes because it is essentially meaningless and is used to conceal the real nature of the people who create these wars of aggression. Let’s not be drawn in.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/maidan-2-0-ukraine-rightists-kill-police-putin-blamed/5473431
I have only one thing to say regarding WW2
Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
Please keep in mind that the US elected a community organiser on a promise of hope and change
Anyone but “What difference does it make” Clinton
OT FAO Nana
Sorry to hear you are struggling with RA. Have you asked your GP if you can be referred for Anti-TNF treatment? It is very expensive but has completely transformed my life and is available on the NHS.
O/T
FMQs, shooting fish in a barrel, even Ruthie got a dig in at Kez that made Nicola chuckle.
Have not had time to read all the postings, but my view is that the reason why Putin is “top dog” in the Syrian conflict , is that he answers to no one, but on the “other” side there are just too many with a say in what ought to be done, so while they are arguing among themselves , Putin gets on with it.
@Fireproofjim
The Japanese had tried to negotiate a peace deal before the dropping of Atomic bombs,
America wanted unconditional, Japan wanted terms ( mainly regarding the Emperor).
Japanese main goal in WW2 was control of China and all its resources,
China lost nearly 20 million men, woman and children in their fight against Japan,and if they had fallen it would have released hundreds of thousands of troops against the Allies,with all the resources and slave labour that they could take from China,
it is a part of WW2 that is little known in the West.
Handbags at Don.
Capella says:
25 February, 2016 at 5:00 pm
@ Breastplate. I believe the Ukranian coup was yet another “Western” backed uprising by right wing neofascists.
Of course it was. Sequence of events:
1. Closer ties with EU and Ukraine encouraged, supported by US in order to undermine Russia.
2. Russia suggests Ukraine could be close to both east and west economic blocks, benefiting all.
3. Russia’s offer rejected. US needs “Russia Bad”. Ukraine told: “Them or us!”.
4. Ukranian president (the legitimate one) says “Ok, we chose Russia”.
5. US not happy at all, uprising organised in Ukraine – extreme right wing organisation (US supported) takes over.
6. Russia moves quickly to secure military assets (Crimea, possibly target of US) and protect ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians in east of country.
7. US and its EU puppets extremely pissed. Corporate media cranks up “Russia bad” narrative.
Natalie McGarry was not arrested.
Natalie McGarry was not detained.
She was told to put her phone back in her pocket and move up the queue please!
I really do have only one thing to say about ww2
KATYN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_war_cemetery
Fireproofjim
My ‘brave boys and girls’ remark is in reference to how we portray war, whitewash the truth so to speak, not a personal attack on any individual. I fear you are losing perspective regarding japan because of your father’s situation. And I deliberately call them boys and girls – not, men and women – because that is mostly what they are, kids, and that is an attack on the political leaders who make the decisions to send them into harms way. Blair as an example.
Japan were never going to fight to the last man, people tell themselves that to justify an atrocity. Possibly the worst ever in human history I might add.
Scott Finlayson@5.24
You are right. Japan tried to interest the Russians in helping to mediate a ceasefire with the USA before the A-bombs were dropped.
The Russians did not help because they were on the brink of attacking Japan via Manchuria, which they duly did, and to this day they still occupy the Kurile Islands just north of Japan.
Joe Biden’s son R Hunter Biden, joins the Board of Ukraine’s largest gas producer Burisma Holdings operating in the Donetsk region.
“who will develop the gas field in conjunction with Shell (jointly owned by the Netherlands and the UK: the two countries that loathe Putin the most in the aftermath of the MH-17 disaster) which in May 2012 announced a tender for the right to develop the Yuzovka shale gas deposit?
Burisma, Ukraine’s oil and gas production holdings, also has the right to develop the shale gas fields in the Dnieper-Donetsk basin of Eastern Ukraine. The same Burisma where R. Hunter Biden, Joseph’s son, was appointed a director two months ago.”
http://tinyurl.com/n6qqjqc
Some Ukrainian neo nazis:
http://tinyurl.com/mpzbyo7
Wars, Battles, Conflicts,
I don’t know who did what or who was to blame or even who won anything, because we should remember the “Winners” Write and document history the way they want it to appear, and disgruntled losers their way
History will no doubt over time reflect our own Referendum as a bloody and bitter Nationalist attempt to overthrow British democracy if they (The British) endure, or even if they don’t
Scotland will write a different story and folk will take sides and or believe what they will
Experts will cite evidence created from “Facts” not in evidence, “journalists” will pontificate at length over how evil our leading representatives were and what they were thinking (coz they’re psychic as we know)
That’s the beauty of being particularly a “British” historian or “journalist” you can pretty much just make it up as you go along providing you’re one of the “respected” ones it’s carved in stone and up to all dissenters to prove their “petty and pointless case” until the British rubbish everything you’ve said true or not
I have no doubt that for example Nick Robinson will be described as almost angelic in his herculean fight for the truth against the evil dictator of the time Alex Salmond
and will probably at some time in the near future be awarded a gong for his efforts
History, it’s a crock of shit designed and written to bewilder honest men (I made that up myself) or did I?
Capella
Thank you – I was trying to find something on Ukraine’s neo Nazis, I also recall, shortly after the coup, three of their leaders on the ground were assassinated at a cafe, in broad daylight, by persons unknown. I think they were getting too vocal for Washington.
I am keeping up, if you are not worried about nuclear war why did you post on your twitter feed about being sanguine about Trump because you have a deep cellar to avoid the fallout in then? It was not I who brought up the nuclear issue.
Talk about hubris and sheer chutzpah –
BBC ‘Savile’ report details his (and Hall’s) crimes, but hey, senior management weren’t to blame – it was all the fault of cowardly junior staff who didn’t report what they suspected. So, would that include Wogan, Janet Street-Porter, Esther ‘Childline’ Rantzen etc etc…
What a fucking shower of shameless bastards.
We need to build our own broadcasting organisation, and we need to do it from scratch – these scum have been knowingly sheltering perverts, blaming their weakest staff when they’re caught, and we were forced to pay for all of it.
I’m so angry I feel nauseous. Utterly scunnered.
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5785/smith-review-finds-72-bbc-linked-victims-of-sir-jimmy-savile
The Scottish Six, the SS? Really BBC? ja vol mein herr? Wonder if the ginge minge will be the lead newsreader, otherwise known as the waffle fuhrer.
Methinks a rethink.
Just came home to an envelope addressed to my wife and I from the “Scottish” Conservative and Unionist party.
Imediatelly marked it “return to sender,not interested” and put it unopened in the nearest post box whilst walking the dog.
Anyone else gets one?, I urge you to do the same.
@ ahundredthidiot
Global Research has been covering the Ukraine coup from the beginning. Pages of articles available. There are videos too -probably on youtube.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/search?q=ukraine&x=0&y=0
Russia was originally Kievan Rus but the capital moved to Moscow around the time of the Golden Horde invasion by the Mongols. Bizarrely, the Ukraine leadership is trying to ban Russia from using the title “Russia” (in RT). Wikipedia has a good article on Kievan Rus which doesn’t seem to have been got at yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27
The Russian considered the 11WW was an ‘Imperial capitalist’ war. An ‘imperial war between capitalist states’. They tried to stay out if it, until Poland was invaded. Some parts of Poland (states) aligned with Russia, Russia thought Britain, France and Germany were Imperialist States. Japan invaded Russia previously. Russo-Japan War. Britain paid back debt to the US until 1990’s.
Did anyone else think that report on the BBC reporting themselves over the Saville enquiry was total brass neck world champions. Aye we were guilty but there’s fuck all you can do about it. What an absolute joke. No wonder they said and did anything they wanted during the referendum.
If MrTrump becomes president may we bomb the bejesus out of the USA to effect regime change?only asking!
As for the BBBC thsey are utterly disgusting and were told of concerns at the time , if only by a young reporter called John Simpson though I can’t imagine he was the only one
And so the “White Knighting” goes on!
Not really worried about the ferret with the large embarrassing pile hanging from it.
If he becomes president of the USA, the rest of the world leaders will just laugh at America.(Zero credibility)
If he puts Israel in its place and supports the Palestinians, I will have no problem with him, but I doubt he has the balls to do so.
Leader of the free world “My Arse”
Trump wears a suit, a tie and sings the National anthem. OK with Cameron.
Another BBC whitewash.
The fuck with this
Let’s get serious
Lion v. shark
Who’d win
Bombing or deliberate killling of civilians is a war crime whether its done by ‘us’ or ‘them’ and for what ever cause.
The dropping of A bombs on Japan murdered so many innocent people, woman and children… so appalling and so sad because we still legitimise it today. Horror upon horror on we march… and to where? Making the rich and powerful more rich and powerful…
NOT IN MY NAME.
scotspine
Yesterday, I was shown an election leaflet, sent out on behalf of Scottish Conservatives MSP John Scott.
Nowhere in the leaflet can be found the words “Scottish Conservatives”.
@Ken500
You do realise that The USSR invaded Poland at the same time as the Germans? They also occupied the Baltics and had already fought a war of aggression against The Finns. Strange way of trying to keep out of a war. How was that an aligning of Polish states to Russia? If anything 1939 was Russia expanding it’s empire.
They eliminated the Polish officer class at Katyn and deported the intelligentsia of the Baltic states to Siberia. The comintern instructed French trade unionists to strike in war industries and trainloads of war material was sent to Germany. There were still trains en route to Germany on the first day of Barbarossa.
Of course you won’t find many Russians admitting to Katyn or the secret clauses in the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. In fact most of them think it is propaganda against the great patriotic war.
Ahundredthidiot @5.44
Seriously? The worst atrocity?
How about Auschwitz, Belsen, and a hundred other concentration and extermination camps?
Gordon Brown will intervene long before that.
I don’t know about anyone else, but the thought of Trump being president sure scares the hell outa me.
Fireproofjim
Don’t do that. I’ve walked the train tracks and stood in the graveyards. Not cool. I said ‘possibly’ the worst. It’s not a competition.
I am going back to my weights and beer. Now, there’s a combo.
@ ewen I recommend you read Alan Clark’s “Barbarossa”. He was a Tory MP and son of Kenneth Clark, the historian. So he can’t be accused of socialist sympathies. Once you have some information you will be better able to discuss WW2.
Another field of investigation would be the Russian Revolution and the attempted invasion of Russia by “Western” powers such as Britain under the leadership of Winston Churchill. We fought on the side of the White Russians. We tried to invade via Finland. Finland subsequently allied with Nazi Germany.
Jeremy Isaac’s epic documentary film “The World at War” is also a good source of information on the subject. Excellent chapters on the Russian experience. Narrated by Sir Laurence Olivier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYVb37GdQa0&list=PLLvOGyTQQoqziO-Uobw49bDRT2Lel0t3R
Ahundredthidiot
Point taken. Enjoy your beer
I got the Tory form as well
My answers were.
None of your business [how did you vote in the referendum]
Potholes and dog shit [Local community problems]
She never said that. [Once in a generation]
Yes [I would like to pay more income tax]
No Thanks [would you like more Tory propaganda]
Capella. Obviously my history degree and special interest in WW2 makes me unable to look at Russian history and makes me forget about the Finnish civil war and how Russia always wants a buffer zone.
To suggest that your view is the only one of historical note is a bit rich. There are many ways and many revisions.
Why did Finland ally with Nazi Germany and start the 2nd winter war. Think about that? The clue is in the term 2nd. The first winter war wasn’t the west trying to invade through Finland. France did bandy about sending an expeditionary force to Finland but Sweden wouldn’t allow access through their territory. Is annexing Poland and the Baltic States justifiable because Russia had been invaded before?
If you want some material from both viewpoints try Alexander Werth Russia at war. A history of the great patriotic war by various Russian authors. Anything by Beevor, and yes I have read Barbarossa and have the world at war and the book that accompanies it.
And travel back to the 80s and tell people there will be a BORIS leading the UK!
C4 news all about England land as per but dude says BBC has a culture of fear. No shit Sherlock, try watching Jacky UKOK Bird every night, fucking terrifying.
The thing about history is it leads on to the future which becomes the past.
Anyway, the Yanks had reds under the bed, the UK has blues in the closet. Anyone want a bank manager?
As for Trump, he’s a guy sold his name to some people who owned a load of hotels. Well, they couldn’t call them Joker International, could they?
Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact in 1941 allowed the Japanese to concentrate on their war in China and in Pacific and also allowed Russia to concentrate all their military against the Germans,
Ordinary Chinese citizens suffered almost seven years of the most brutal assault by Japanese soldiers,starvation,murder, rape,slave labour,torture,
After winning China the Japanese were going to sue for peace with America and pay any retributions outwith giving up China,
peace would have saved America a war in Pacific especially if Japan now had the industrial output and forced soldiers of China to fight the Allies.
Rancid The Graun still doing their “we will not let our Scotland region go” thing tonight
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/brexit-vote-scotland-out-uk-scottish-independence
“Here’s where the problems start, however. For one thing, the difference between Scottish and UK or English opinion is often exaggerated and occasionally romanticised by some Scots.”
Ooft.
“Today Scotland is solidly in favour of remaining in the EU while UK-wide opinion is much more evenly divided. But the evidence for saying that a UK vote to leave the EU would boost support for independence is extremely fragile, as Professor John Curtice – most people’s go-to pollster on these questions – has written.”
Its quite sad that this one Prof is the only they can UKOK wheel out and with no intro know either.
Welcome to the Scotland region of England. A carpet baggers paradise.
ewen and capella
To add to the books recommended, I can also suggest some excellent historical research and books on the years between the wars that takes the reader up to the co-ordinated invasion of Poland by the USSR and Germany. The author is Norman Davies who, in my opinion, is as good as Beavor at reporting historical events concisely and without prejudice, as well as giving historical context and a bigger picture:
Europe at War 1939-1945
Europe: A History
Rising ’44: The Battle for Warsaw
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-20
God’s Playground: A History of Poland (Volume I & Volume II)
Heart of Europe: A Short History of Poland:
without the Miracle on the Wisla we could all have been speaking Russian!
Capella says:
25 February, 2016 at 7:03 pm
@ ewen I recommend you read Alan Clark’s “Barbarossa”. He was a Tory MP and son of Kenneth Clark, the historian. So he can’t be accused of socialist sympathies. Once you have some information you will be better able to discuss WW2.
Indeed, to fully understand who did what and why they did it in 1939-40, you have to go back many years, decades, even centuries. Occupations, annexations and enslavements of different countries in eastern Europe did not start in WW2. Many countries have experienced being both victims and oppressors at different times in their history.
Thanks Polscot. I have read rising 44 and interesting to see he has a book out about Anders. Need to read the others. White eagle Red star especially.
Good spot ewen, I’ll need to get the one on Anders as well.
White Eagle, Red Star isn’t a long book, but it is certainly instructive. Out of adversity victory.
Heedtracker
To be fair it is Martin Kettle – I think his article mangles Curtice’s numbers and throws in Kettle’s own complete lack of knowledge about Scottish politics and his antipathy to the SNP for good measure.
Good click bait for the handful of Nay Sayer regulars.
@ Polscot without the Miracle on the Wisla we could all have been speaking Russian!
Thanks for the book list. BTW I have O level Russian. It does lend some perspective.
Any recommendations for books on Armija krajowa, Polscot, especially after 1945?
I have been reading up and talking to people about the Forest Brothers for many years. A great many in the west don’t realise that for some, WW2 didn’t end in 1945.
@capella
I only know how to swear in Russian and ask for a beer:))
I am fluent in Lithuanian, though. Not a lot of use for that.
@ Socrates, it was printed on the back of the envelope.
The actual truth is that none of us know why history unfolds the way it does. Governments make decisions without consultation with the population then use Propoganda to back those decisions.We in Scotland should realise that fact via the McCrone Report and Tam Jardine recently discovering the shenanigans by George Younger,and of course Thatcher and Healey ‘s hiding of revenues from Scotland.
History is an ever changing and fluid topic,changed by new discoveries and information. None of us know for sure.
Regarding the BBC exoneration of the Saville wrongdoing,what a farce.
They clearly admit there was a culture of fear in the BBC that prevented
reporting to superiors. In every organisation I have ever dealt with,and there have been many,the Organisation Culture IS the direct responsibility of the Board.
Why the report ignores that fact is beyond me other than it is a lie.
ewen
I haven’t been able to find a decent book on the invasions from Ukrainian partisans. I have visited Bieszczady a few times, in fact I had a weeks holiday in Ustrzycki Dolne with my family a couple of weeks ago. It is a fascinating corner of Poland that is now trying to develop some leisure pursuits, skiing, horse riding, trekking, etc. As to the Bandera and UPA partisans, I am not sure if there is a decent accessible book for English speakers, my own language skills are too poor to be able to gauge an authors bias. Maybe a gap in the market for Davies or Beevor? Hmmm ….
HandandShrimp says:
25 February, 2016 at 9:04 pm
Heedtracker
Yes you’re right. The double English hack whammy, wee wee all over their silly little Scotland region democracy, or ignore them completely.
They’re such tories though, middling to high English tories, The Guardian.
It always amazes me how much utter garbage supposedly intelligent people will swallow.
What? The BBC and the MSN is lying about Scotland, Independence, the SNP, Corbyn, Europe and the rest – but is telling you the truth about Putin and Russia?
Idiots.
Thank God for Vladimir Putin and Holy Mother Russia.
Cheers capella
Thanks for the book list. BTW I have O level Russian. It does lend some perspective.
I can manage to ask for two beers in Polish, but my perspective always looks better after six and some vodka! Actually my Russian is better than my Polish, spent too long in Kiev.
J Galt. It isn’t all black and white.
I don’t swallow what the BBC tells me but considering my wife was born in the Soviet Union, I’ve lived in what used to be the Soviet union and Putin was KGB, I don’t think Bog considers Vladimir one of his own.
I don’t believe that the USA is a force for good either. I’m on the side of the wee nations.
What? The BBC and the MSN is lying about Scotland, Independence, the SNP, Corbyn, Europe and the rest – but is telling you the truth about Putin and Russia?
Idiots.
Ok then. What has civil war in Iraq got to do with Russia? And you cant use them same reasons that the BBC and the MSN, currently lying about Scotland, uses to explain US and UK invasion and bombing of Iraq.
Good luck.
Idiot.
On Trump – I can’t actually quite get my head around the fact that he is the best choice the Republicans think they have. Yet it is looking increasingly likely that he will get the nomination. He may get the presidency purely on the basis that Hilary is a divisive character in her own right and Bernie although clearly a decent man may be a tad too much to the left for the swing voter.
It may be a record low turnout in November.
The only glimmer of hope is that Trump will be 70 in a few months and he doesn’t look that great to me. Remove the tan and hamster and he is an old looking man.
@Heedtracker,
Russia has a naval base at Tartus on the Syrian coast which it has been expanding for the last few years. It is Russian last base outside it’s own borders.
That is why it is strategically important to Russia that Syria has a leader in favour of allowing Russia to maintain that base.
I suppose if Trump becomes president, he could always copy Putin and make it a criminal offence to go public with the news that someone in your family has been killed on active duty.
A golden parachute and then some… there’s lots of money in the water of life.
https://archive.is/6dvqt
Yeah, Polscot, I don’t know much about the Ukrainian partisans. My knowledge is more of the LLKS in Lithuania.
Bob Mack says:
25 February, 2016 at 10:00 pm
@Heedtracker,
Why does Russia need a military base in the Mediterranean?
Japan & the Atomic bomb
Discussions involving Allied leaders were conducted in secrecy in 1945 with the purpose of deciding what needed to be done about the USSR at the end of the War since their forces had made rapid advances in Europe and gave no indication of stopping.
The recently manufactured atomic bomb now formed part of the USA arsenal. And under the leadership of the newly elected hard-line President Truman it was decided the USSR might need to be sent a message in the form of dropping an Atomic bomb on a major Russian city. Possibly Moscow.
At the July 1945 Potsdam conference the USA warned Stalin not to involve Russia in the war in the Far East since the Western Allies had just about defeated Japan.
By the late summer of 1945 the Japanese were a defeated nation with little food or defensive capability and it was intended by General Douglas MacArthur that he would put a blockade in place to starve them out. A process that would be enhanced by carpet bombing daily.
But the Russian invasion of Japan islands from the North provided opportunity to send a message to Japan and Russia not to mess around any further with the Western Allies.
The USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan. The Japanese surrendered. The Russian invasion from the North was brought to a halt.
ewen,
I know what you mean, there’s a ton of history that we are taught is “settled” in such-and-such a time, but when you delve deeper you find out that it is not the case.
There are some posters (apologies can’t remember which ones specifically) that have eloquently shown that the Jacobite rebellions in 1714/15 and 1745/16 are anything but rebellions and the activities did not only happen in those specific years. The same is true for other conflicts around the world, as you know from the actions in the Baltic states after WW2.
I would also love to know more about what happened in the forests of Lithuania post WW2, I like real-life histories and films (eg Defiance). I spent about 2 years in Vilnius in 93/94 and visited the whole country at that time. Loved Klaipeda and that whole Baltic coast. I do wonder about the Konisberg / Kaliningrad oblast and what will happen eventually.
Anyhow, you’ve given me an idea for a book or two.
@Heedtracker,
Recent tensions with Turkey resulted in Turkey threatening to close the Turkish Straits to Russian warships travelling to the Med from the Black Sea. Russia has obviously now decided to create a self sufficient port facility for its Northern fleet which traditionally used the straits to gain access to the Med.
Like every other Nation on earth their warships are there to protect vital interests in the region.
Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, George Galloway and Donald Trump…… Could easily throw in someone from The Red Tories in Scotland but you’d need to pick from Murphy, Lamont, McTernan, Ballie or Dugdale.
There’s loadsa nutters in politics around the World, Scotland’s got more than it’s fair share, most of them are in The Red Tories, All of them believe Scotland should be dependent on Westminster.
Bob Mack at 3.57
Exactly. Japan I understand was prepared to surrender if their Emperor had been allowed to remain in place
@CmD
That Herald article..
“Diagio…the Scottish-based company”
Am I not correct in saying that Diagio is headquartered in London?
It’s interesting to hear so many voices explaining this or that aspect of history, but depressing that so little attention is being paid to ongoing ‘news’ which – if we allow it – will vanish from ‘history’ altogether.
The United Kingdom’s state broadcaster, the BBC, is nearing the end of a process by which it is absolving itself of any institutional culpability for the rape and abuse of children (as young as eight) over the past four decades.
‘Rotten apples’ and cowed underlings are being made the scapegoats. Anyone who has ever worked for the BBC but failed to reach ‘senior management’ level is, in effect, being blamed for a scandal which would prove fatal to any accountable organisation in a healthy society.
It beggars belief that this putrid arm of government has the fucking gall to witter about toying with the idea of a ‘Scottish Six’ while dutifully issuing news reports (and pre-watershed at that) about Jimmy Savile raping and abusing boys and girls in ‘virtually all’ BBC premises.
I hope this site, WGD, Derek Bateman, Stuart Cosgrove, Eamonn O’Neill, Prof John Robertson, Lesley Riddoch and every other writer/broadcaster/blogger of note in Scotland who has/had any dealings with the BBC (and/or professes an interest in the importance of media in our lives) now make a concerted effort to dig deeper, find the truth – no matter how hard or horrible the process may be – and nail the guilty once and for all.
Please don’t let them get away with this.
Bob Mack says:
25 February, 2016 at 10:32 pm
@Heedtracker,
So Putin’s gone to war in the middle because its possible he might not get ships into the med via the Black sea?
All these guys come up with very weak reasons to go to war. Look Blair and Brown. Its always the same with weak democracy and war. As long they think they can win, that war wont break out on their own territory, it brings out the national flag waving and proud Britnats or Russians like it.
@Heedtracker
By Robert Parry
http://www.globalresearch.ca/madness-of-blockading-syrias-regime-does-the-u-s-want-al-qaeda-to-take-over-syria/5475476
Relevant to your question on why Russia is involved in certain areas
Of course Putin has an agenda, but his agenda is a lot more easily discerned – he wants to get on with his plans for the gas pipeline. He is not actually plundering anyone else’s resources, unlike Israel, camped in the Golan Heights trying to figure out how to get at Syria’s oil, or Turkey buying stolen Syrian oil.
My question is, wtf has any of this to do with USA, who have been engineering this shit for years in Syria.
The same USA who have watched mile long convoys of oil trucks stealing Syrian oil, and when questioned why they didn’t bomb, the lackey replied they were afraid of hitting civilians.
“Iraq: the case for decisive action
Military intervention in the Middle East holds many dangers. But if we want a lasting peace it may be the only option”
http://www.theguardian.com/news/2003/jan/19/leaders.politics
Lasting peace. Pompous rule Britannia buffoonery, phoney progressive liberal style. We saw just how sneaky and creepy it really gets in UKOK news rooms as this lot alone monstered the life out of Scottish democracy in their Scotland region.
Don’t forget about China. Setting up their naval base in Djibouti, next door to the American base. Getting crowded in the Horn of Africa and Persian Gulf with all those peacekeepers:
http://on.rt.com/6xph
My question is, wtf has any of this to do with USA, who have been engineering this shit for years in Syria.
They’re in it mostly because of the Bush and Blair invasion of Iraq. Civil wars are not exactly easy to work out who the bad guys are, are they?
@Heedtracker,
Agree. I don’t think there are many good guys in war of any description.
Another interesting snippet of information re the war between Japan and America.
Japan bought the majority of their steel to build up their large warship fleet from the steelmills in Pennsylvania USA. I know because my great grandfather was a foreman in the works throughout the 1930’s and showed the Japanese buyers the plates of steel which weighed hundreds of tons each.
Even at this time the Americans suspected Japanese expansion,but sold them the steel anyway.
I wouldn’t take it as a given that Trump can’t win.
For starters, it could be hard to stop him winning the republican nomination. Many don’t want him, but the usual funders are worried about running attack ads on him because its looking more and more likely they might be stuck with him.
The other challenger Ted Cruz could be even worse, looking to be a genuine religious fanatic. And incredibly, there is genuine concern that third contender Marco Rubio might be too short to become president at 5’8″
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rubio+too+short
Clinton will be favourite, but she isn’t hugely popular either – and if some other scandal turns up in the final weeks, perhaps connected to her secret email account, then it could easily be President Trump in the oval office
Who knows, perhaps Americans will elect him just for the sheer novelty value.
@X_Sticks
I’ve been chilling out watching the curling in Canada
‘The Scotties’
Next stream is 12:30hrs too late for me.
Anyhoo!
‘Scottish Company’! Aye your right never notice that.
Bit like the oil really 🙂
Fiscal Framework Deal:Just published.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503481/fiscal_framework_agreement_25_feb_16_2.pdf
Re the nuking of Japan, twice: Japan were surrendering already and asked that the terms allowed the Emperor to remain. The US didn’t want them to sue for peace through Russia who were about to enter the war with Japan. The US used both bombs to make Japan surrender to them before Russia entered the war.
Bob Mack@11.44
Another supplier of iron ore and scrap steel to Japan in the years immediately before the war was Australia, whose Prime Minister, Robert Menzies, who approved the deal, was ever after known as “Pig Iron Bob”.
Didn’t do his chances much harm as he was re-elected after the war.
Can’t believe what I’ve just heard via ‘BBC Scotland’ Radio News at midnight…
re. findings of the latest ‘Savile’ report –
‘BBC staff prioritised production of high-quality programmes over unacceptable behaviour.’
(That’s a paraphrase btw, but, seriously, eh?)
Some interesting comments this evening…
Here’s a wee film clip for those who have offered ‘opinions’ about the bombing of Japan.
Robert McNamara, from ‘The Fog Of War’ –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmfPThGZ-s
What is the best source of information or web site for forming an objective view on Putin?
Currently I only know ‘Putin Bad’ as portrayed in our not so objective media.
@call me dave
Thanks for that. Yeah, I think Unionists are quite blind, fortunately. But I’m saying nothing.
@Rock
A good place to start with Putin and his role in politics is the Global Research site which I have posted, and Capella posted a link. Another site is Common Dreams.
Both sites draw from a wide variety of academics or foreign office, political commentators. It means it’s not one perspective.
Articles on Global Research are well evidenced.
RT tonight showed clips of Kerry talking up Russia’s role in Syria, then Obama slagging Putin for propping up Assad. They can’t even get their story straight in 24 hours.
Not a lot of movement in the market but HRC is still odds on with all 21 online UK facing bookmakers to be next US Pres. You can get odds between 3-1 and 2-1 against for Trump. Marco Rubio and Bernie Sanders trailing at around 6’s and 12’s respectively.
It’ll be somewhat interesting to see what happens when the final candidates are chosen. What a world where HRC is the soft, rational, could actually win unlike Sanders option.
If Trump does win the world might be a marginally less safe place, but if it means we get a FGTH video game for mobile phones just like the old C64 one, with the spitting game, I dunno, it’s yin and yang at the end of the day.
O/t
I see Osborne is trying to get the G20 members to come out against Britexit.
Excellent article by Derek Bateman on the BBC and “Scottish Six”.
Derek says that BBC Scotland got rid of their camera crews two years ago to save money. That would be in 2014. Obviously nothing of any importance was happening in Scotland in 2014 that required the use of a camera.
O/T links
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/3544/steve-topple-the-smith-review-on-bbc-stars-child-abuse-doesn-t-offer-answers-or-closure
http://ponsonbypost.com/index.php/news/64-gordon-s-vow-the-denial-of-the-saviour
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/02/25/uks-youngest-mp-just-demolished-tories-scathing-attack-yet-video/
https://theferret.scot/yemen-war-eyewitness/
Willie Rennie on GMS ….. Carmichael is innocent and Fib Dems taking no action against him for lying!
It’s not Trump who frightens me, it’s the American people. More than 25,000 Americans kill each other every year yet the same people think it’s OK to store an AK47 in a house where their family live.
If Americans vote in Trump then WW4 will be fought using burnt sticks and stones as nowt else will be left.
God help us.
Great link Nana to G S Ponsonby on BBC and The VOW.
And links on Scottish Six:
http://derekbateman.co.uk/2016/02/25/but-is-it-news/
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2016/02/25/dont-cringe-in-my-backyard/ by Stuart Cosgrove
AND
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/lesley-riddoch-the-bbc-still-has-a-plethora-of-alterations-it-needs-to-make.14193
Plus how Labour sabotaged the Scottish Six
Then it emerged that senior Scottish figures in the Labour party had fought against the plan for a Scottish Six. One of those was Blair McDougall, a Labour party special adviser who would later go on to become campaign director of the anti-independence group Better Together.
In November 2007 McDougall sent an internal memo to the then Secretary of State for Scotland Des Browne warning against allowing BBC Scotland to create an evening news programme that would have presented events home and abroad from a Scottish perspective.
Labour party opposition to the ‘Scottish Six’ had been confirmed by former BBC Director General John Birt who admitted in his own memoirs that he “worked hand in glove” with Tony Blair in 1998 to stop the creation of a Scottish Six main evening news bulletin.
Birt revealed he had made a direct approach to the Labour Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to keep the powerful cohort of Scottish Labour MPs on side. A Scottish Six would “encourage separatist tendencies”, Birt argued. Blair agreed, and asked Peter Mandelson to marshal Labour’s forces; later James Purnell, then an adviser at No 10, and now the BBC’s director of strategy and digital, took on the task.
In ‘The Harder Path’, Mr Birt’s memoirs, he claimed that Blair agreed to ‘fight’ against a ‘Scottish Six’ for political reasons – even though the proposal carried broad support in terms of improving the BBC’s output in Scotland, including the support of the Broadcasting Council for Scotland.”
(‘LONDON CALLING: How the BBC stole the Referendum’, by GA Ponsonby, pp 6,7)
Nana says:
“O/T links
http://ponsonbypost.com/index.php/news/64-gordon-s-vow-the-denial-of-the-saviour ”
Thanks. An excellent overview of the treachery of the convincing promises which turned out to be just a con trick.
And, some Yoons are puzzled as to why IndyRef1 is considered as unresolved! That is just denial of events.
Scotland has certainly moved on in terms of attitudes and aspirations, but not in any meaninful constitutional sense.
Strange article. Trump actually likes Putin, has defended and complimented him on many occasions. When asked what he thought of Russia killing journalists, Trump admitted/pointed out that the U.S. did too in places like Iraq. Can’t remember any other U.S. politician being so frank and critical of US foreign policy than Trump has been. All that whilst hatred and fear of Putin is at peak levels.
@Nana
Take for Canary link. Mhairi is really coming to the whole country’s attention. Yorkshire blogger, Another Angry Voice has featured her speeches as an example of passion and principle. The comments are mostly very pleasing.
I think the SNP have promoted Mhairi as an example of youth in the party as she features in the latest ppb, alongside John and Nicola.
Mhairi has really set the heather alight!
@ Nana
EU parliament votes to ban arms sales to Saudi because of war crimes in Yemen. I could find no mention on the BBC so will Westminster accept this non binding vote? Will it buckies!
The Independent
https://archive.is/N5hkW
Steven Jardine interviewing Esther Rantzen about all the Savile stuff right now on Radio Scotland.
Jardine’s a very experienced broadcaster. If he has done any research at all in preparation for speaking to this character then he’ll have YT’ed ‘Esther Rantzen/Jimmy Savile’ – if he did? this is the top result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSyaWxciTTo
@Nana
Great link to Ponsonby post and required reading and archiving for the next referendum. They cannot be allowed to rewrite history.
We know what the vow was, who sold it to the Scottish electorate and why. No one must ever forget what they did.
@Capella
I saw the tweet from our MEP yesterday re the vote in the EU. I doubt very much Cameron will take heed and the brexit mps will just use it as another stick against EU interference.
Nicola will be speaking at the stop trident rally this weekend. Cameron and his ilk will be on the phone selling arms to whatever dictator wants them.
http://cnduk.org/get-involved/events/item/2282-stop-trident-national-demo
Dodgy mps- I would not usually link to the sun but this article caught my eye on the day the fiscal farce was being decided. On the same day Met police commissioner Bernard Hogan Howe was being ‘grilled’ by the commons affairs committee whose chairman is Keith Vaz.
I assume the video will be available through parly live tv. I am sick and tired of the elite ‘getting away with it’
After yesterdays white wash by another elitist dame how many more children will suffer.
http://archive.is/3XMnp
https://www.politicshome.com/home-affairs/articles/story/ban-naming-arrested-mps-%E2%80%98could-be-lifted-if-they-hold-key-position%E2%80%99
and for us here in Scotland
Will anything come from this enquiry or have they bought more whitewash already.
https://spidercatweb.wordpress.com/2016/02/22/qvs-dunblane-military-school-paedoring/
Macart says:
“They cannot be allowed to rewrite history. We know what the vow was, who sold it to the Scottish electorate and why.”
I certainly hope the SNP don’t let it lie. I think they should take the view – “OK, that the SmithLite shite out of the way, can we now move on to having the actual promises delivered (or else)”
It will be met with ridicule, of course. That’s OK. We then know where we stand!
Scotland? One of the most powerful devolved places in the world? Probably not.
https://archive.is/g5MUx
Sturgeons figures are too good… and up with them we shall not put… er says labour’s Dr Richard Simpson.
Health board accused of ‘massaging waiting time figures’
https://archive.is/4x5i7
Where is Eleanor Bradford when you need her. 🙂
Off now to see if that unknown person has left their copy of the Record in the cafe and compare it to The National.
Yesterdays X-word… still had 5 left to finish… 🙁
@Macart Absolutely Ponsonby articles are brilliant and we should share and share again.
Onto something else I spotted for all the clever folk on here as I’m not the brightest spark when it comes to money matters. My hubby says I know how to spend it fast enough!
Anyway I saw this and wondered could credit unions be the link towards a Scottish central banking system.
http://cunamutual.ie/2016/02/scotlandcu/
@ Dunks says at 8:35 am …. ”It’s not Trump who frightens me, it’s the American people. More than 25,000 Americans kill each other every year yet the same people think it’s OK to store an AK47 in a house where their family live. If Americans vote in Trump then WW4 will be fought using burnt sticks and stones as nowt else will be left. God help us.”
Same here Dunks. Aggression and fearfulness seems to permeate their society (not necessarily in that order). Combine that with sheer ignorance and you’ve got a recipe for disaster especially in relation to who they’ll vote for next.
I’ve spent some time in the US and found that MANY people are very insular indeed, don’t have a clue about the World beyond their shores (or within), have no idea of what’s really going on say in Syria and the reasons why (their Governments policies / underlying motives). Many actually have no idea where Russia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Syria is for that matter …. ”just bomb the hell out of them as they’re the enemy” …. so their corrupt, corporate media constantly tell them.
As to Trump he could basically start a war in an empty room (ring) and forget about him facing up to Putin: he’s shown that he’s a despicable, narcissistic coward who’s more inclined to want to fight with the vulnerable, such as the blind man that he punched in the face (and got away with it). He’d also be more inclined to want to get rid of Putin from afar by just placing his pudgy finger on a Nuke button.
O/T
US mentality even then.
‘Chomsky – The Killing Didn’t End With Hiroshima and Nagasaki’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s1h6wT91sc
And our side:
http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/british-handover-cossacks-red-army-lienz-1945.html
‘The Forced Extradition of White Russians (émigrés)’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n25dOrUYoV0
And another ‘dirty, political business’. A ‘must watch’.
‘The Forced Extradition of South Slavic People by Allies’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSXTKSFBhFc
O/T
I hope nobody minds my talking about something O/T, but I just have to get something off my chest. I simply cannot think of anything more pathetic than Scots screaming that their is no way Scotland is capable of running its own national news service on TV (a ‘Scottish six’).
These people really are the ultimate examples of the Scottish cringe writ large. Every other country in the world, large and small, is perfectly capable of doing so, but according to these ‘Scots’, Scotland is simply not capable. In their mind, international affairs can only ever be explained by a posh, ex-oxbridge man in London with an English accent.
Seriously, whatever their politics (and let’s remind ourselves this is NOT about politics) these people should get a grip on reality. If a country like Ireland (with a population similar to Scotland) can do it, then why in heavens name can Scotland not do so.
Hard to believe the pathetic, subservient, cringing behaviour and mindset of these people.
https://www.rte.ie/
Ian Brotherhood says: 9:18
Ian I also listened to GMS this morning, the DJ was very open about the allegations and comments surrounding Saville and his clique. The theme going through this conversation about Saville is that he had powerful friends who took his “eccentricities” and sexualising comments about young girls as just so much “banter” or perhaps “irony”, yes who indeed would accuse Saville, with friends like that behind him?
Thank God that wouldn’t happen today, now way would a middle age man with powerfully litigious friends get away with sexualising young females for their own pleasures, no way would forces of darkness conspire to silence those who would dare speak out.
O brave new world,
That has such people in ’t!
@galamcennalath
I suspect that is exactly the tack they will take in the interim, a constant chipping away any chance they get.
Just as importantly, whenever some policy wonk, or meeja luvvie on thread or social media attempts to rewrite history WE don’t let them forget. They need to be made aware that their political opponents are the least of their worries and that ordinary Jock and Jeanie public are perfectly aware of what they’re about.
Nana thanks for posting the links in particular this one. It’s an issue I’ve been trying to delve into for years now, as I know you have. If anyone is interested they should google some key names or words and see where it takes you. If you do, start searching, you’ll be horrified with what you find. One of the greatest ‘whitewashes’ ever to be carried out by Westminster.
And Nana I see that you’ve not been too well recently. I hope that your health will improve very soon x
https://spidercatweb.wordpress.com/2016/02/22/qvs-dunblane-military-school-paedoring/
America is huge, so I don’t think that you can lump ” Americans” as one!
My daughter lives in California with her family and I can assure you that the “Californians” that she knows are as terrified of Trump as we are. However they fear Ted Cruz more! Bible bashing neocon.
Their friends have to go with Hilary although they really would like Berie Sanders. They recon that Hilary is the only one that can stand up to Trump or Cruz.
@Flower of Scotland says:26 February, 2016 at 10:32:
“amAmerica is huge, so I don’t think that you can lump ” Americans” as one!
Not any more than you can lump, “The British”, as one, Flower of Scotland, but they always do.
We presently have a topic about, “The Scottish Six”, and that shows the way that, “Establishments”, manipulate the news and thus the written history of countries and indeed the World.
Then we have the topic of the, “Jimmy Savile”, scandals, so look at the information about, the Parliamentary campaigning group, “PIE”, (Paedophile Information Exchange):-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange
The point is that what the ordinary folk in any country think and do is subordinate to what the, “Establishments”, in those countries choose to allow to be published and shown as the views of that country.
Our history is a recording of what the Establishment says it is. It is mostly sheer and utter lies and propaganda.
Things like the Jimmy Savile scandal can only happen with the say so of and assistance of the Establishment.
@Nana & Petra
Thomas Hamilton and the QVS thing has a very bad smell. The strength of the cover up leads me to think there is something that is extremely dangerous to the establishment there.
@Rock says:
26 February, 2016 at 1:03 am
What is the best source of information or web site for forming an objective view on Putin?
My former history tutor’s webpage and articles can be found here, “In Moscow’s Shadow”. and matches the man Putin himself in tone really, it’s a realistic, if brutally honest reporting of the simple facts. Russia is both saint and sinner, and if Trump does win the Presidency, expect a tonne of verbal jousting but not much to change; Russia’s armed forces may not be particularly good these days, but then they don’t need to be as they’ve focused on areas where they can give precision blows to the groin as required… underhand operations and economic blackmail and high tech rocketry… and Trump will be told in no uncertain terms by his own heads of military that yes, we can go defeat Russia, how many F22s would you like to lose to do it, and how many allies freezing to death with the gas cut off would you like to alienate?
Talk is cheap however. So expect lots and lots of “Build a wall around Russia” talk, and macho posturing and the same old “my international epeen is still huge” bravado in a way that befits America’s declining applicable cowboy power, all hat and no cattle.
Oh, and Major Kong over at Daily Kos is a good, unbiased read for newbies on air power topics; He used to fly B52s but has a healthy professionals respect for the opposing side. here’s his take on Russian activity in Syria, and he points out they’re not only backing a local ally but probably using it as a test bed for their latest generation cruise missiles. Here’s his story on the TU-95 too; Yes it’s a 60 year old propeller driven anachronism. But Da Bear’s not the point, Russia’s been more focused on what his “skinny wingmen” can do…
Trump can bluster all he likes; I doubt the US Navy and their multi-billion dollar Aircraft Carriers will be so blase about poking the bear…
Re The BBC. Another Union Dividend quoting at 8:35am:-
“………….Labour party opposition to the ‘Scottish Six’ had been confirmed by former BBC Director General John Birt who admitted in his own memoirs that he “worked hand in glove” with Tony Blair in 1998 to stop the creation of a Scottish Six main evening news bulletin.
Birt revealed he had made a direct approach to the Labour Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to keep the powerful cohort of Scottish Labour MPs on side.
A Scottish Six would “encourage separatist tendencies”, Birt argued. Blair agreed, and asked Peter Mandelson to marshal Labour’s forces; [!!!!!!!]……..” 🙁
This is shocking and MUST be circulated far and wide.
The BBC is a pernicious joke.
Labour hand in hand with the Establishment BBC.
This makes me want to empty my stomach. 🙁
I’m trying to remain calm and polite! 🙁
Well worth a read. (‘LONDON CALLING: How the BBC stole the Referendum’, by GA Ponsonby, pp 6,7)
Valerie,
“@Rock
A good place to start with Putin and his role in politics is the Global Research site which I have posted, and Capella posted a link. Another site is Common Dreams.”
Titler,
“My former history tutor’s webpage and articles can be found here, “In Moscow’s Shadow”. and matches the man Putin himself in tone really, it’s a realistic, if brutally honest reporting of the simple facts.”
Thanks for the links. I will look into them.
If the UK media says ‘Putin Bad’ there must be something good about him.