Quoted for truth #20
Posted on
June 25, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Stephen Noon in the Scotsman, 25 June 2013:
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This. The chance to do things differently, better. The freedom to make our own choices, for good or ill. To stand on our own two feet. Regret would not be a strong enough word.
Vote YES and get more powers.
I am sure we can and will win but I sometimes wonder if Labour have thought through the consequences if the No side win. I believe from comments made on twitter and so on that they anticipate that in the event of a No vote the SNP would collapse into internal fighting and Labour would retake its rightful place as the party of government. But that wouldn’t happen. The SNP would continue and very likely be re-elected in 2016. And every bad thing that came out of Westminster would be Labour’s fault. I mean, it actually would be. No rhetoric involved. They would be to blame because that’s the outcome they wanted. Can you imagine how that would feel? If the Tories got back in again – which they likely will because, let’s face it, Ed Milliband will never be Prime Minister. How could Labour ever play the anti-Tory card again? They couldn’t because they would rather have the Tories in power than support independence, they’ve made that crystal clear. You could actually almost laugh at just how screwed they would be except it wouldn’t be funny for the people of Scotland. It would be tragic.
re Indy! The Labour Party, the Fib Doom Party and the Tory Party have already surrendered the next Holyrood Election to the SNP. UKIP and the BNP are already dictating Brit Govt Policy by proxy. Those monsters will continue to do so regardless of the outcome of the 2015 Brit Election. The BBC was today softening us all up again for more cuts with its nauseating if not disturbing Brit Nat Propaganda. Cuts that are going to follow that 2015 election. Cuts that the Tory Party, Fib Doom Party and the Labour Party have already signed up for.
In relation to Stephen Noons words! The consequences of a No vote are already too horrific to contemplate. I am old enough to remember 1979. I dont think I could live through that again. Regret and pain at a missed opportunity is rather a mild way of expressing what the reaction will be, it doesn’t come close to expressing how I and many others will feel.
This is a very, very powerful message that has the potential to shift a huge number of people into the Yes camp.
Couple this with the equally effective message that staying in the UK is a much bigger gamble for Scotland than getting out.
I think the term used somewhere before was ‘double whammy’?
@ indy Yup, I agree. IF there is a No vote it will be more likely that ‘Scottish’ Labour, not SNP, implodes – under the pressure of receiving ALL the blame for all the shit that Westminster will dish out.
But I’m very confident that there isn’t going to be a No vote: I’m predicting a 50s% Yes to 40s% No, unless there are some very dirty tricks played by Westminster and/or BetterTogether, worse than we have seen so far… If there are it will be very very close, 51% No, 49% Yes – which will in turn mean, when even just some of what you describe happens, that within 5 or so years there will be another Indyref and Yes will walk it with 70-80%, so Indy within most of our lifetimes, which would still be a result…
beachthistle says
so Indy within most of our lifetimes, which would still be a result…
Lets do the first time, some of us including yours truly cannot wait for long.
I have read the following recently on several websites and would be grateful if someone could provide more details of what charity dinner it was etc. to ensure it is a true statement before I start quoting it on the blogosphere:-
“At a charity dinner last year Andrew Neil of the Politics Show said:-
“Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote NO you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament”. ”
Its on the Business of Scotland website athttp://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/…/ and scoop it website atscoop.it/…/… to name but two of the websites where it appears.
It would be very interesting to know if Andrew Neil really did say what is claimed.
Surely to God some of SLAB will break ranks with London policies going the way they are and will? A few more eg Mc Leish and we can persuade ordinary Labour supporters to disown their London leaders and vote Yes to get a real Labour Party? They need to be confronted with the consequences of No sooner rather than later. I would rather not have to go through a fight for independence after the shit really hits the fan. And what we need now is a Yes ad saying
IF YOU WANT RID OF SALMOND VOTE YES.
Not what I want but Labour voters need to understand that a vote for Yes is not a vote for the SNP!
It’s gone too far already. Britain is coming to an end.
Whatever the result in 2014 (and I’d be really surprised if it wasn’t a yes), the disintegration of the union is the ultimate end result.
This isn’t a passing fancy, it’s just history playing out. Jeez this is 300+ years in the making, although I’ll accept ~70 years ago as where we started from to bring us to right now in terms of the last (and only real) peak of ‘Britishness’ in Scotland; in demise since then.
Different countries. The reason for union – empire – gone. Don’t vote the same way any more…
It’s over. As the tail end of the Gaussian-like imperial rise and fall curve it might have been a little stretched out, but that’s the way these things go.
Unless Scots suddenly start enthusiastically voting mainly Tory and Labour again, largely matching the rest of the UK (which would be impressive as people in the rest of the UK aren’t even enthusiastically voting Labour/Tory themselves) then it is well and truly all over.
@beachthistle – I agree with every word. Although I also agree with Marcia, I would much rather we win independence this time round, just in case like!
@Scottish_skier -Yip total agreement, that’s it in a nutshell.
Spot on comments by Stephen Noon.
There is no doubt that the Westminster political class are playing an extremely dangerous game for history tells us that when the people eventually wake up to what they have been up to to win the referendum there will be a terrible retribution either way.
What we should all fear the most is the possibility of direct action ensuing if there is a NO vote and because so much hate has been generated by the unionists it also happening if there is a YES vote.
The Westminster establishment and their proxies are wittingly (or unwittingly) giving ammunition to elements who may look back post-referendum at a NO vote and the methods by which Westminster achieved it and say “well we tried it your democratic way and see what they did to Scotland so there is now only one way we can achieve freedom from the yoke of Westminster”.
I hope to goodness this never happens but the way the Westminster political class are behaving gives me grave doubts that it won’t.
Have you seen this?
link to news.stv.tv
Set up?
Thanks S_S
Sometimes…… I feel down, and well …. just thanks
I did post something .. but it’s gone .. and it’s not the first time .. ok it’s the second time .. it had a link while my first missing post had three links.
Anyway to repeat myself, @ Marian: .. Andrew Neil said ‘it’ at the Accord Hospice charity event in Paisley last year with hundreds of witnesses including Derek Mackay MSP. It was jotted down by Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp of business for Scotland who was also there.
@Yesitis
This sort of vandalism, similar to the attack on the Scotsman offices a few weeks back, benefits no one apart from the unionists. Could well be the work of some young nationalist bucks, but I have my doubts. When you see coordinated actions such as these, it usually means the work of agent provocateurs, not too clever and pretty easy to spot. I think this is just the start, we can expect much more and much worse!
Many thanks Ghengis for the information.
WHEN DID WESTMINSTER DECIDE TO CLOSE TAX CENTRE 1 AND TAKE IT BACK DOWN SOUTH
I was at a meeting for a charity today who work with people with learning disabilities, the issue of pensions was raised, and so then independence was touched upon, at which point someone said, ‘ I don’t think they (snp ) have thought about it’. In other words they didn’t have a clue and are not going home at 5pm and logging on to WOS etc, and they are making their judgements according what they read in the gutter press.
I encounter much uncertainty and ignorance from people about independence, but the truth will come out and the ‘no’ lot know that, they are running so scared. so much to lose as a friend said at the week end, so much to lose, just a shame they can’t see the positive side at all for the good oF all.
I can’t bear the thought of a No vote, so many of my countrymen and women with no vision, no hope.
Instead I shall think of the party we’ll have after a YES vote.
@Bill C
Oh, I agree.
Yesitis says:
@Bill C
Oh, I agree
Yeah the “Q” for Quisling in Aberdeen and “("Tractor" - Ed)s” on the Scotsman HQ in Edinburgh smells of agent provocateurs. Not too clever and entirely predictable.
Bill C
I fear a BT smear campaign may backfire somewhat.
Cry Wolf once too often…
Well said Stephen Noon.
“The pain of what could have been…” I really, really do not want to have to endure that pain.
I believe that after independence there will be a Scottish renaissance – science, art, languages, engineering and technology are just a few that will flourish. The feel-good factor alone will be a driver of opportunity and entrepreneurialship. All of that can be achieved with one simple, but positive word on 18.09.2014 – Yes.
“The pain of what could have been” is one too horrible to contemplate.
It’s getting very close to the time when this atrocious pantomime being wrought by the NO-ists is called to account.
It’s a very narrow line of patience that’s being walked by the Scottish Government, because the grass roots people of Scotland, those prepared to see propaganda for what it is fully intended to do – openly subvert the democratic process – and that is attested to clearly in these words from Andrew Neil – are disgusted by the tactics deployed by the BBC and appalled it is not being officially challenged.
Craig Murray has repeated his call that an external authority be called in to try to monitor the BBC and if this does not resonate with the SG, it’s hard to see what will.
Or maybe, those of us who feel this way are just the narrow minded, swivel-eyed, nasty nats, with a monumental persecution complex, that some luvvies would have us be.
On the other hand……it’s getting well past time, Alex!
Wish I knew the answer to that one myself Baron. We know that the SG has a sense of justice, so why put up with the constant smear and demonization aimed at their party, their support and the greater YES campaign? We know we’re not racists, tribal or anti democratic. If anything our tolerance and understanding has allowed the opposition to get away with this vile tactic to date. I do feel though that we have to continue down a path of no like for like tactics whatever the provocation.
I’m with the late Mr Banks on this. As he stated, whatever the result, we all have to live together after the referendum. It’ll be for those who use these tactics to explain themselves to the electorate afterward. Just how they’re going to do that is their headache. Say they win, especially by a narrow margin, just how are they going to heal the wounds they have created and explain their conduct to nearly half of Scotland? The politicians, publishers, broadcasters, commentators….. as Westminster continues turning the screws and people’s lives are wrecked through poverty and hardship just where can they hide from the public gaze, what can they say?
Whatever the SG does or does not do to mitigate the way the opposition conduct their campaign I feel we have to keep it clean and positive for as long as we can. I think we offer the better future and I’m damned if I’ll tarnish that by responding to the likes of ‘Project Fear’s’ tactics. Besides I’ve got a shocking back and I don’t reckon I could stoop that low anyhoo.
@Barontorc
Re an external monitor. As far as I can recall from other posters who have raised this issue, it seems that for National elections, OECD etc. can come in and monitor without permission. However, for Local elections or Referenda, they can only do so at the behest of the national government – in this case Westminster. The question has been put to them that this seems perverse, given that the region/country seeking the referendum want to GET AWAY from the National Government, but the response has been, “the Rules is the rules!” You couldn’t make it up.
I think that the only way to get these external monitors involved will be through using other international neutral media, or media monitoring institutions to get interested enough to start investigating. I tried raising this with Media Lens some time ago and did not even get the curtesy of a reply, so I think we will have to look outwith Scotland and the UK. RT seems a reasonable bet.
The bias in the media remains a potential Achilles heel for YES, IMHO.
This is my biggest fear too – that we’ll somehow fail to grasp this opportunity, and then have to watch as ignominy is piled upon us, year after year. There will be no delight in saying ‘I told you so’.
It seems quite incredible that the Glasgow University Media Group
link to glasgowmediagroup.org
doesn’t appear to be taking an interest.
Dont even want to contemplate, a no victory, and the effects it will have on Scottish Society, only a YES vote, will let Scotland progress.
All complaints etc for Centre 1 are now dealt with in Cardiff.
How about a poster with the slogan
The last thing we want to do is to tell you “We told you so”, vote YES.
?