Question Time question time
Posted on
June 13, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Loading ...
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-28
- 04-27
- 04-27
- 04-26
- 04-26
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-24
- 04-24
- 04-22
- 04-20
- 04-20
- 04-18
- 04-18
- 04-17
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-12
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
The pull-out option would be good if they both did it. If Angus pulls out on his own, that might not work so well.
Where’s the imbalance ? Angus could take them all on himself ! Its about time though that the EBC were taken to task in their own backyard.
As much as I object to the BBC’s behaviour I think they should take part. We need our voice heard.
“Its about time though that the EBC were taken to task in their own backyard.”
Um, unless you’re saying “E” stands for “Edinburgh” you may be a little confused 😀
One in, all in. Get in there Angus.
I think the pull out option only really works if AR and LR both do it. Alternatively, it might be useful if one of them, preferably LR, made a short statement at the beginning about how skewed the panel is; I think that’s something that 16 & 17-year-olds could easily identify with. If the BBC cut it out before transmission, even better.
I like the idea of the more dramatic option of a walkout. But nether of them can claim that they didn’t know about the situation in advance. So a turning up only to refuse to take part might seem a bit overly theatrical. So I voted for them simply not turning up.
“I like the idea of the more dramatic option of a walkout. But nether of them can claim that they didn’t know about the situation in advance. So a turning up only to refuse to take part might seem a bit overly theatrical.”
Really surprised that one’s in the lead, to be honest. It’s pretty impractical for all sorts of reasons, including the one you cite. But there you go.
If both parties dont turn up then its akin to a sizeable section of the electorates voices being stifled. Turning up then pulling out could easily be turned into mockery and derision by the EBC towards Robertson and Riddoch. The black ops tricksters will be reading all the boards and can plan for that eventuality. By not appearing they will have to dump their nasty little plot and rewrite the script at short notice for qt. Lets make them work for their damn money says me;)
I voted for sticking in there and sorting them out.
Reminds me of what Cpt Dick Winters of the 101st Airborne said at Bastogne in December 1944 “They got us surrounded, the poor bastards.”
Turn up and walk out will be seen, will be reported. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
I would vote for both panellists simply making a statement about the unrepresentative nature of the panel, then staying.
A walkout can take place at a time of AR’s choosing. The show can be edited but there will be plenty of observers. The show might be impartial and unbiased. The BBC is getting worse and isn’t going to change unaided but the timing of action has to be right.
Anyone remember Roy Hattersley not turning up and being replaced with a tub of lard on Have I Got News For You?
Course you do.
Only way to beat bullies is to face them. Might take a blow or two but they’ll soon get the message,
I would be most chuffed if the Scottish Youth booked to be the Studio Audience all showed their dignity and got up and left their seats right at the start of this dumbed-down, condescending, puerile bunfight.
Here’s me thinking that the majority of Wings readers are intelligent!
I’ve voted against them turning up for another session in the BBC stocks. My preferred option would be a complete boycott of all BBC ‘interviews’ and ‘debates’ by everyone who supports Scottish independence.
What would you choose if you were invited? Sit there, like an idiot, to be fired on from all sides while your guns are spiked by Dimblebum or flounce out like a saft, wet lump while all and sundry laugh at you?
It’s like bringing a whip to your own flogging!
The first thing I would do if I was AR would be to establish that Fromage was not attacked by a crown of mad nationalists in Edinburgh but by a demonstration led by two Englishmen from Edinburgh University Labour and Socialist clubs and that Fromage knew this at the time and that his spin in this since that point has been downright and deliberate lies.The English audience might find that very interesting.
Sarwar and Davidson are lightweights but Galloway is capable of causing trouble. He may try the sectarian card that he tried last week. I wonder when he was last in a church
@Albamac
You’re right. I realise everyone thinks the BBC pay no heed to any balance whatsoever BUT they do, to a point.
So, as I’ve said before,the YES campaign needs to be coordinated when it comes to media bids ……. so they say, sorry blah, blah from SNP can’t do it and then the BBC bidder will be compelled to find another YES voice.
I really do despair at people’s lack of understanding the game and inability to play it well.
It’s a game New Labour perfected in their glory days.
Anyone know the complaints number for BBC Scotland ? Jam the lines with complaints. Make it the biggest complaint they’ve ever had.
Then do the same with BBC National line and flood http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/ with the same.
There is a by-election in Aberdeen coming up. UKIP are putting up a candidate. This is a UKIP election broadcast and SNP hatefest all in one.
Referendum Special my arse.
I’ll be very disappointed if Angus Robertson sits through this charade. I’m an SNP member but I’m getting incredibly frustrated with the SNP and the Yes campaign in general to be honest. Nae baws, that’s the problem. Nae bloody baws!
BBC I imagine given UKIP a lot of air time to try to damage the Tories; it’s dominated by Labour in England too.
I’m not sure the same tactic is wise in Scotland.
Walking out hands an immediate victory to the BBC and their unionist agenda. It might even give Cameron the opportunity to use the one word of Scots he knows.
So I think they have to do what they have to do.
They turn up; they don’t whinge; they answer the questions as best they can and allow the others to mess it up for themselves.
Anything else will be misinterpreted however the unionists want to use it.
Of course it’s inexcusable that on a show designed for teenagers, presumably because we are inviting teenagers to get involved with the referendum, we have two politicians who have nothing to do with the referendum, and nothing (at least professionally) to do with Scotland. A Bradford MP and an MEP for a far right party unrepresented anywhere in Scotland is not making it a referendum ‘made in Scotland’. But you start from where you are, not from where you want to be.
Angus is probably cleverer than any of the rest of them; possibly so is Riddoch. I think they may be clever enough to turn the whole thing to their own advantage.
Tris @6.34 Spot on!
I recon they should turn up, I would guess that most people who will be watching it, will see it for what it is, a set up by the bbc to rubbish anything that’s said about Indy. I also know that most Scots take umbrage when they see the minority being bullied by the establishment.
Farage knows next to nothing about Scottish politics and the other BTers don’t want UKIP associated with them. George has so many axes to grind that he looks like a convention of wood cutters and Anas talks complete gibberish. This is a car crash waiting to happen. I’m torn. Not turn up or turn up and look like the sane option? I think the latter has merit but it is close call.
Tris/Liz Quinn
Couldn’t agree more.
Would be nice though if some youngster asked why Farage & Galloway were there at all.
(wishful thinking)
Turn up, make a statement about the imbalance of the Panel and the BBC’c bias.
Say that Farage has no place on this panel in Scotland, nor ha Galloway and ask why have the Greens have been frozen out.
Then walk out in support of the Greens and democracy.
Swiftly followed by a telephone call between Salmond and Paton on Friday morning with a threat of a withdrawal of cooperation from the SNP, the Greens and the others.
Front page news and a winner with electorate. The LanlibCons will greet but it could be a game changer overall.
Reminds me of what Cpt Dick Winters of the 101st Airborne said at Bastogne
General Abrams, 4th Armoured, during the race to Berlin. </pedantry>
I don’t think they have any choice other than stick it out and try and turn the tables somehow.
CH
If they do turn the tables we can be sure that the next iteration of Beeb balance will be to have no indy representation.
Angus is a fluent speaker of German. It would be fun if he were to address Farage only in that language.
Go for it Angus. Use laughter.
Another letter that has been sent This one from the electoral reform society
https://www.facebook.com/notes/electoral-reform-society-scotland/ers-scotland-complaint-to-the-bbc-re-question-time-130613/10151517047943165
I would go for a fourth option.
Turn up and complain on air about imbalance of the panel. (BBC will edit it out but audience will know and this will create a bigger storm).
I like Lesley Riddoch but I think she is still promoting Devo Max but even if she supported independence it is still unbalanced plus a non neutral chairman.
If what I read about how the audience has been constructed and considering there are 4 unionists who are not the biggest threat to a Yes vote I say they should appear as planned.
There is definitely an English based unionist view building that believes their own propaganda about how the vote is strengthening to No. In Scotland on the streets it is my experience that the only vote gathering momentum is the YES vote. When these English based producers get stuff like this so wrong it just confirms how out of touch they are with the referendum campaign on the ground and lets remember even if they stuck forty unionists on the panel we still wouldn’t hear a serious proposition about why we’ll be better together.
I think this will only strengthen the YES vote because at least Angus Robertson and Lesley Riddoch are very competent orators. Gallus George is usually good value as well and he and Farage will become a distraction.
HandandShrimp
The beeb is running out of permutations on their perceived balance and when public trust, as it is, starts to erode the corrosion can only escalate.
Not showing up or walking out would just look childish and would be a gift to unionists and would also provide the BBC with opportunity to exclude them in future (or include them and drag it up again). They need to participate but voice their disquiet with the clear imbalance and inclusion of the heid-cases . . . as well as the inclusion of Farage and Galloway.
They need to turn up and state their case. The Yes campaign rightly complains that we don’t have a main stream media platform for our message. In this case, the BBC are presenting a platform: we don’t have the luxury of media support that enables us to turn this opportunity down. It would be continually flung back against the Yes campaign that we didn’t present a pro-Independence voice when given the opportunity.
We know we have the arguments against the Unionist scaremongering. A simple logical extension by looking at every other recently independent country in the world – what is it 170 countries in the last 70 years or so – shows that Scottish Independence will be a success. So Lesley – as a neutral – and especially Angus – as the sole nationalist – just need to make their reasoned analysis.
We know that the BBC have stacked the panel as usual in favour of Unionists. Its a blatant attempt to skew the presentation; but it also shows their desperation. They need to shout down the nationalist argument by force of numbers as there is no alternative persuasive case for staying in the Union.
Complaining about bias won’t do any good; the BBC have already said that they don’t have to be impartial and don’t intend to be until the referendum run-in. (Although I suppose every complaint helps a little! I would think the Greens especially have every right to complain against this Pravda-like bias.) I have no confidence the BBC will change their default Unionist position or even apologise.
What will hurt the Better Together campaign is if everyone makes it clear to their family and friends that the perception now is that the Yes campaign have already won the argument for Independence as the media need to stack the decks to make any Unionist case credible.
Besides this, there is good chance that Angus and Lesley will convince the 16/17 year olds in the audience (pre-edit) and maybe even get a chance to air their arguments to the public (post-edit). Galloway and Farage will probably be competing against each other egos and may cancel one another out. A quiet reasoned performance by Angus and Lesley to contrast against these two hollow buffoons would be a significant victory for the Yes campaign, and a further indication that Independence is the rational default position.
I think the beeb is trying to set up a total shouting/slagging match.
Then tomorrow the msm can present it as a view of how immature Scottish politics is, even though two of the panel have nothing to do with Scottish politics.
Don’t agree with a boycott or walking out, I think Angus will rise well above them.
It won’t be hard to do.
But then maybe it’s only me that thinks that. 🙂
Turn up, call Galloway a sad attention seeker, call Farage a wanker. Punch both of them in the pus, headbutt Dimblebore, then sit back and smoke a joint.
The youngsters will love it.
It will turn into an anti-independence show no matter what happens.
Angus Robertson’s appearance on the show is not going to impact the views of anyone who truly believes in Scotland’s right to govern itself like the other 196 countries in the World. If it does then they talk a good independence.
A key question is how will his appearance on the show (even if he is constantly heckled, interrupted and ridiculed) impact the “don’t knows”. The sight of Farage and his Brit Nat side kicks attempting to railroad an able, intelligent, hard working and democratically elected Scottish MP can work to his advantage.
A minority view will only start to win over the majority once they realise the minority actually believes what they say. A part of his involves the minority being consistent in what they say, not backing down, and being prepared to back each other up. This must involve the minority taking risks to demonstrate this.
Despite the joke (or maybe insulting) line up on QT, Angus must go for it.
Did you need to put 3 options? I’m all confused!
Turn up, make a short statement and fight our corner both are more than capable and anyway it just shows that the anti-independence camp are running scared they need 4 against 1 + 1 remember LR was an advocate for Devo whatever.
@juteman
We have a winner. .. 🙂
@ Juteman , I’m now going to have to tune into it just incase that happens.
Turn up and take part.
It may well be very ugly with constant attacks, but him and Lesley will come out the best and I have a feeling that Twitter comments will be on his side.
it was hard to choose but I picked the walk out option because something needs to be done to highlight the bias, though I agree whole heartedly with Bugger the Panda’s ideas on this. The moral high ground is an awfy lonely place these days and you can’t help but want to shout out from it in a way more suited to lower down the hill sometimes
The SNP are a party of government and as such they cannot walk out. Instead they must act as adults, as a responsible party of government, and appear on the show to state their case and stand up and be counted.
As for the Greens, they must make up their own minds. I’d urge solidarity with their partners in the YES campaign and therefore should appear.
As has been stated here many times before:
o The unionists do not have a case, therefore in argument they will be beaten.
o The BBC will not do balanced until the defined period 16 weeks IIRC before the referendum. Even then they will be leaning to the unionist side to some small degree.
o YES need all the publicity they can get. This is a free shot. Go for it, I say.
The SNP has a number of clever representatives, advocates and orators, I hear.
How smart do you have to be when, cast as a silent extra, your only contribution to a televised interview or discussion is a limited range of ridiculous facial expressions and feeble hand gestures?
How stupid do you have to be to pay £145.50 a year for this?
Let’s have another poll. Who’s paying their ‘Union’ dues?
Kinda not off topic too much…
Guido has a chart illustrating the dominance of the BBC News…
http://order-order.com/2013/06/13/smash-the-bbc-harman-wants-15-market-share-cap
I think that Angus should take part, but at the outset declair that he will not respond to questions regarding the independence, because of the political imbalance of the panel.
I’m sure Angus and Lesley will “stan their ain grun” amongst this inbalanced question time panel.
I’ve made my complaint – lets get the numbers up!
Won’t watch this as I struggle to sleep after being so worked up. Have confidence in Angus and if he plays it right, viewers will be more aware of the biased make up of the panel.
On another note, the #bbcqt will be interesting tonight to see what our friends south of the border are saying. Will the guaranteed venom and vitriol from the cyberbrits be covered anywhere in the Scottish media I wonder.
@Tamson-
Who did you address your complaint to?
It would help if complaints were directed to the same folk/office e.g. the Producer of tonight’s show.
PS Isn’t it remarkable how consistent the voting has been? Pretty much set at 50%, 30%, 20% respectively since the off.
I believe that it’ll be a long uphill struggle, but even though it’s only on 30% now, people will be won round to the option that I voted for. #bbcqtref #yesturnup
I think the most popular ‘flounce off’ option would be a disaster.
Radical group for independence protested outside Edinburgh Corn Exchange
http://www.journal-online.co.uk/article/10724-edinburgh-proindependence-activists-criticise-question-time-panel
There may be another more devious reason for the composition of the panel,
Both Farage and Galloway are nasty nutters, the aim might be to try and get people to believe that Angus and Lesley are the same, guilt by association!
Just submitted my complaint:
The panel for Question Time tonight, which is supposed to focus on Scottish Independence (with a specially selected young Scottish audience) is unrepresentative of Scottish politics (with leaders of 2 parties who have no elected representatives in Scotland, and nobody from the Scottish Green Party, who do) and is numerically biased, 4-1, against those supporting a Yes vote.
Programmes like this will be cited in evidence to international observers/campaign monitors who, as increasingly looks likely, will be invited to Scotland due to the consistent pro-No bias of the BBC, and BBC Scotland politics and current affairs television and radio programmes in particular. As I understand it, Question Time is produced by BBC Scotland so falls into that category.
The national reputation of Question Time, and the international reputation of the whole BBC, is being damaged by those in BBC Scotland who have a political agenda and are using/abusing their positions, and the reach of the BBC, to subvert fair democratic debate and discourse.
Galloway is such a contrary and unpredictable character, it wouldn’t be a surprise if he suspends his hatred of anything SNP to at least try and dissociate himself from Farage. His name has been mentioned so often, here and elsewhere, in concert with Farage’s, that he must be increasingly uncomfortable.
If he senses that the audience see him as a UKIP/Unionist bedfellow it could be the wake-up call he needs – he’s hopelessly out of touch with what’s happening here and was unwise to accept this particular QT invitation.
And if Riddoch gets the opportunity to nail him on specifics? He’s in for the Mother of All Doings.
…’And BTW, when was the first time you ever heard about the McCrone report, George?’
Lesley Riddoch could and should play some form of protest card – she is there as an independent unbiased candidate.
Angus has to be seen to “responsible” and see it through to best of his ability and hopefully with some semblance of balanced chairing from Dimbleby.
I shall watch. I am already imbibing my calming balm courtesy of the Scottish Malt Whisky Society (bottling 53.179 “Jelly-fish on the Rocks”)
Hail Alba
euan morton @euanmorto 3m
A disclaimer to those watching #BBCQT 70% of that audience were private school arseholes
https://twitter.com/euanmorto/status/345286544657104896
euan morton @euanmorto 3m
Blood was boiling on many an occasion #BBCQT
https://twitter.com/euanmorto/status/345286843572559872
There’s an article about QT’s bias in this particular upcoming programme attributed to Severin Carrell over on the Guardian’s site:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/13/bbc-galloway-farage-question-time-scottish
@Nigel_Farage was incredible on question time, handled himself so well despite the immature audience #bestexperience
https://twitter.com/JessMelAnd/status/345286613552734208
Sarwar contradicting himself already…
A couple of good lines on Rory Bremner goes to Holyrood.
On George Galloway ” Alistair Darling, George Osbourne, David Cameron I dip my whiskers in your cream.”
and when Alan Cochrane boasted that he had been married twice and Rory Bremner said ‘So you do believe in breaking up a Union’
A good line for Alistair darling
Angus Robertson is making a good point.
Brilliant response by Angus Robertson on BBC Question time re political balance.
Nice one Gus, getting straight to the point and great response
Getting interesting!!
Lesley’s playing a blinder!
Big Angus doing well too, but it’s folk like Lesley that will win us this best in September 2014.
Ate, Lesley is doing awesome.
Sarwar might be doing well too if Labour would actually do some of the things they say to win votes!
and as for Galloway, the leader of RESPECT condemning Salmond for supporting free speech?
George has lost it, it’s official
Oh, and actually George, Scotland DID vote for independence in 1979.
eeech. Lesley talks utter nonsense about taxation. Anyone, of any age is liable for tax if they earn above the personal allowance…
So how many kids under 16 earn over 10 grand a year?
anyway, not surprised Farage doesn’t want to help foreigners.
oh crap, Galloway just lost it big style. Didn’t he accuse Lesley rid dock of sensationalism on the millionaire thing? Yet he can say al quaieda cut open chests and eat people’s heart? Jeez I George, gizabrek!
I thought Angus really rattled Dimbleby over the representation on the panel issue.
Ach well. That was better than expected.
Not a bad show. Was a positive for me. Lesley Riddoch a great bonus to hear on TV and together with Angus the voices of reason.
I think Lesley did a great job for the YES vote there, and I’m generally not a fan of hers.
The excellent malt helped. The kids. no young Scottish Citizens were superb.
Most interesting of all was complete absence of any mention of Oil assets !
Why ?
We know..
Follow the money young people. Always follow the money.
God bless you
God bless a Free Scotland.
I thought it was awful. It was like watching a fitba match where one team wasn’t allowed a goalkeeper.
Callum says:
13 June, 2013 at 11:32 pm
eeech. Lesley talks utter nonsense about taxation. Anyone, of any age is liable for tax if they earn above the personal allowance…
ActuallyLeslie is correct.
@Callum
eeech. Lesley talks utter nonsense about taxation. Anyone, of any age is liable for tax if they earn above the personal allowance…
That’s right but a sub 16 year old is highly unlikely to be being taxed through employment but rather due to other income eg pension, trust fund, legacy interest, etc. Lesley’s point was about 16 year olds going straight to employment. Why shouldn’t they vote?
Mr Sarwar was out of his depth,but when he was prattling on about equality across the whole UK he should have been castigated for Labours appalling record on equality whilst in power.Mr Galloway has lost his edge these days.Perhaps that’s what happens to champagne socialists when theyre only doing it for the money.Messers Robertson and Riddoch were well up to the job.Mr Falange irrelevant.Ms Davidson had an easy ride and so didn’t make a dogs dinner of things.I thought the audience was up for it.Dont know about the loon looking for aliens,though.
Second thoughts.
The Young People listened and were nobody’s fools.
We shall win.
@ Callum, think of it as being a Tax loophole that has been closed and it makes more sense. 😉
Some intense stupidity on show in that crowd – perhaps what the beeb were hoping for. Then again we know the BBC like young kids for other reasons. Anyway, GG got off light tbh, more should have been made of his fawning love for mass murderers, AR was too much on the defensive, LR did well, NF was not as big a fudd as usual – quite restrained, AS got off really light-waffling one nation sh1te and not called out for labours shocking record, and RD was…. well… errr who is she again????
I watched the program before i started catching upon today’s topics on Wings. This comment from earlier made me laugh out loud at its uncanny prediction…
Adrian B says:
13 June, 2013 at 4:51 pm
Four Unionists against one SNP MP – sounds to me like the SNP have an unfair advantage
The debate isn’t likely to touch on Independence for very long. I feel a bit sorry for Anus Sarwar – he has to walk a fine line between Westminster policy, not agreeing with the Tories, hating the SNP and distancing himself from UKIP – should be great to watch him attempt that one.
Job Done Anas!
Not bad at all but some of the points from the audience were seriously misinformed. I always wonder about people that say 16 years olds shouldn’t vote because they are not well enough informed – which implies that a magic fairy comes along on your 18th birthday and makes you suddenly as wise as all those other really wise people walking about our streets. Ho ho ho
Angus did the right thing, he said his piece and the debate was actually quiet good. I thought the audience on the main part were quite knowledgeable.
Maybe having Galloway and Farage on made the SNP and independence supporting Riddoch look rather less on the fringe compared to the other guests.
I thought it was better that AR & LR turned up and showed how capable they both are, and so it turned out. The most revealing point came after LR explained rationally why she would vote YES, when DD requested comments from No voters the young lady in the front row divulged that she was actually undecided and could be convinced to vote Yes. That resonates with my experience of giving undecideds new information. Lets keep building Yes from the roots up.
Bill C
Angus certainly rattled Dimbleby over the represenation issue, so much so that he lied on air. My BBC Complaint:
The Chairman slapped down Angus Robertson MP when he complained that he was the only independence supporter on the panel of 6 by saying:
A. That the programme was not about the indyref. In fact it was largely about the indyref sandwiched between wee bits about Privacy and Syria.
B. That BBCQT does not do or take account of by-elections. This is a lie. It did an Eastleigh by-election special and also in Corby.
Lesley Riddoch’s indyref intentions were unknown at the start of the programme and the fact that she came out as a yes voter during the programme does not detract from the bias of the panel selection.
Galloway and Farage are rabble rousers with no constituency or representation in Scotland and cheapened the programme. That the Scottish Green Party, Lib Dems, Socialist Party, Labour for Indy and Lib Dems for Indy were passed over to give them a place on the panel is an affront.
Lesley Riddoch was the obvious star of that debate – she spoke directly to the audience – like a good writer should – and explained big ideas in simple language. It is very encouraging that she is now firmly in favour of independence.
Somebody should youtube archive her contributions tonight.
Hi, long time reader, first time poster here.
Sometimes, despite world weary cynicism and a rhino hide, I get angered enough to commit a futile act …
So I posted this off to the BBC complaints dept. :
‘According to the BBCs own charter it has clearly failed in its duty of impartiality in presenting a panel on the show that included 4 unionist politicians, 2 of whom have no political representation in Scotland, a neutral journalist who prior to her declaration of intent to vote for independence on the show was on record as supporting further devolution, set against one politician in favour of independence.
This alone demonstrates clear bias regarding the independence referendum, however this is only part of the BBCs failing regarding the Question time show billed as an independence special.
Explicitly the BBC must adhere to parity of political representation during election battles. In failing to represent neither Green nor Liberal politicians on the panel during the run up to the Aberdeen Donside by-election, the BBC has reneged on it’s duty to adhere to its own charter, the broadcasting guidelines of Ofcom, and its legal duty to afford parity in political exposure during such times. There can be no justification for omitting the Green or the Liberals, both of whom have significant continuous representation at Holyrood and Westminster, at the expense of UKIPs (who poll less than 1% in Scotland) Nigel Farage who has appeared on QT more often than most recently, and George Galloway MP.
The BBC have again demonstrated a crass disregard for the viewers, the electorate and the law with this act, and in doing so have further undermined dwindling public support.’
4 characters short of their text limit. (I’m quietly chuffed !)
I didn’t feel comfortable with the protest options so didn’t vote. If we’re gonna stand our ground, it has to be done whatever the situation. I’m 10 hours time difference at the moment so rely on comments posted and it seems SNP strategy savvy plus the honesty of folk epitomised by Lesley R has shone through yet again. The BBC seem recidivist on anti-independence content and that’s not a healthy situation for any organisation, but it’s the only public broadcaster available, so we need to use it. Looks like a straight points win was secured. Well done for YES and getting a mamoth boost with Lesley’s on-air declaration was very important.
Solid performance by Angus and Lesley was stand out. Good to see the lady declare for indy. George Galloway has officially left the building and Nige was Nige. All in all not a car crash and yes Mr Dimbleby did get rattled by Angus. The rest was pure panto as expected, but some good points were gotten across on air. I’d still probably have opted for a no show in support of Patrick Harvie’s honest complaint, hell I think even the Libdems have somewhere to go on that.
I see BBC Reporting Scotland got their renta-quote from MR Farage front and centre of the morning news ….. it’s quite apparent now why he was invited to this particular QT broadcast.
BBC Scotland opt out on breakfast going on attack this morning. First item was defence jobs scare and second it broadcast Farage attack on Scottish Nationalism on QT last nite . No mention of Robertsons protest on the bias, and it didnt give the other side of the argument. The two stories took up 2 most of the 3min news item. Shocking stuff
This blatant bias and propagandist behaviour by the BBC, shows us all in Scotland, what a rotten stinking cesspit the organisation is. For those who talk of BBC journalism, let’s be clear, there is NO SUCH thing at the BBC. It is a London Government propaganda tool, pure and simple. Those who work at the BBC calling themselves ‘journalists’ are after this weeks events, frankly ridiculous. Seee http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/7584-who-will-referee-the-bbc for full coverage of this QT story, and an earlier shocking piece of BBC editorial gerrymandering of an important story, regarding an interview with Prof. Ashcroft. So-called ‘journalists at the BBC need to think long and hard about what they are doing day in and day out to THEIR OWN country, Scotland. What is their price to betray their own country and the people of Scotland?????? Shame on all of them.
If the referendum returns a NO vote due to this blatant one sided bias and propaganda by the UK state broadcaster, then there will be an ongoing sore in Scottish politics, that will never go away. Right now, democratic choice in Scotland is being undermined by an English run and controlled state broadcaster, that masquerades as a ‘UK’ broadcatser. The BBC is an affront to democracy in Scotland, and should be closed down.
However, ALL of this makes me even more determined to ensure a YES vote, because I have found, that as soon as people start to get the facts about Scotland and independence, they very rapidly realise a YES vote is the right vote. Their really is NO ‘positive case for staying in this one sided, undemocratic union. This is the fight of a lifetime against an overly dominant controlling Westminster parliament and its propagandist lackeys in the BBC.
The more propaganda the BBC spouts, the harder I and others work to secure independence for Scotland.
Vote YES in 2014, for a better future for ALL Scots.
As an aside, I firmly believe that the entire YES campaign should as of today, refuse any interviews or debates with the BBC. This would work, as they simply cannot run their ‘big debates’ if their is nobody at all representing a YES vote. Very quickly, the matter would come to a head, and the BBC would stop this blatant bias. The BBC can only ever carry on with their pretence at coverage of the referendum, if the YES side play along. Some people say this would be damaging, but I think that would only be short term. In the long run, the BBC would be forced to change its blatant bias, or risk looking like a parody of a broadcaster. ITV could hold debates, but the BBC would be unable to do so. ITV could hold interviews on say Scotland tonight, but Newsnight Scotland could not. This would show the BBC up to ALL of Scotland. It would work. The SNP, greens and so on in the YES campaign, need to get together, and do this ASAP, to ensure a free and fair debate.
If the YES campaign do nothing, and keep hoping the BBC will be fair close to the referendum, then they are literally whistling in the wind. London NEEDS to win this referendum, and it will not care about criticism from anybody. London will literally do anything to secure a NO vote, and the BBC is their most powerful weapon.
@ Robert Louis
I agree, a YES will be one in the villages , towns and cities by ordinary folk, face to face and at meetings. Let YES withdraw from the BBC and let BBC get on with what they do best, only everyone will see them for what they are. People will start to question whats going on, and I hope that the SNP and YES are collating a catalogue of examples of bias and propaganda that it can be produced to all and sundry at some point in time. Whether a YES or a NO, lets make sure the BBC are finished in our country, there are others like Channel 4 who would do a better job, but the normal state of affairs for a country is for it to have its own broadcasting organisations.
Walking away from debate (however seemingly unfair) will result in failure. Independence is the rational choice when calmly set out. We should have no fear.
Sapheneia,
Refusing to play along with the BBC charade and propaganda, is NOT the same as ‘walking away’ from the debate.
There are many alternatives to the BBC, but the BBC is dominant. If the YES campaign decide to play no part in the BBC charade, then very quickly people would start to realise something was amiss. All media channels would have coverage with the YES campaign, except the BBC.
Ultimatel,y it is the BBC who would eventually come to the YES campaign to find a resolution, as the BBC could not continue with only one side participating.
Despite having suggested the walkout idea yesterday, I wasn’t entirely convinced that it was a good idea – however principled, these sort of protests are usually just laughed at, and it would also have been painted as the Yes folk being scared and unable to back up our arguments.
So its good to hear that Angus and Lesley seem to have acquitted themselves well, and that it didn’t turn out to be quite the car-crash that it could have been.
Herald running a couple of BBC stories and some unhappy bunnies in the comments.
@Robert Louis
Ultimately it is the BBC who would eventually come to the YES campaign to find a resolution, as the BBC could not continue with only one side participating.
Have to admit to having some sympathy with that view RL. I hate the idea of walking away from a fight, but just handing out interviews to the BEEB because they’re the BEEB and its always been that way……? Bollocks to that. They’re going to spin the company line regardless of whether you’re there or not. I’d say give STV, Channel 4, SKY news all the interviews and coverage they want as well as any and all others, and let the Beeb pick up the crumbs.
@ Robert Louis
I totally get what you are saying but we are not going to change the BBC. When I look at some other pro-indy websites they have effectively fallen into an anti-BBC campaign group. That is a dead end. We can win this even on the BBC.
Do not forget the foreign news channels… RT, France24, Al Jez etc. This referendum of ours shall be Big News and we shall win !
I’m amazed Angus’ comments about the make up of the panel were allowed to air – in the end that was the best outcome, I just didn’t think they would show it if someone brought it up. Fair play to them, although Dimbleby told an outright lie by saying they’ve never tailored a panel specifically for a by-election – they often do it, and they certainly did it for Eastleigh.
Anyway, despite saying I’d boycott the show, in the end I’m too obsessed with the independence referendum to pass up an opportunity to see it debated on TV! Lesley was outstanding, she really was, and what a fantastic time to confirm what I think many of us have suspected for a long time – that she WILL be voting Yes.
(That’ll be the last time she’s on the BBC, though…)
Incidentally, it’s amazing how quiet Farage is when the audience isn’t a bunch of reactionary idiots moaning about immigrants and the EU. Yet again, Scotland shows up the rest of the UK.
While I sympathise with the posters who are so incensed they are suggesting a boycott by YES Campaign of the BBC.
However I totally disagree with that viewpoint.
Should that course of action be undertaken it would leave the YES Campaign vulnerable to attacks of cowardice and back up the false assertions of unionists that the YES case does not stand up to scrutiny.
AR did exactly what was needed and on air exposed the blatant bias of the BBC.
I am only sorry he allowed the lie by both Farage and Galloway regarding the protest in Edinburgh being an SNP orchestrated demonstration.
I know a few people on here have managed to stop paying their licence fee I would like the details of how this can be done .
@Sapheneia
“I totally get what you are saying but we are not going to change the BBC”
If something is beyond repair, you either do without it or replace it.
“When I look at some other pro-indy websites they have effectively fallen into an anti-BBC campaign group. That is a dead end”
So, resistance is futile and protest pointless? Most of us don’t have white flags to hand. Will tear-stained hankies do?
@ Doug Daniel
“I’m amazed Angus’ comments about the make up of the panel were allowed to air”
Why?
“I just didn’t think they would show it if someone brought it up. Fair play to them”
Hats off to the BBC? For what?
June 13th, 2013 – the day the BBC lost Scotland.
Mark your calender folks.
I’m with Robert Louis. The BBC ‘Scotland’ boogeyman this morning on defence accompanied by the Farage clip was astonishing, unleavened propaganda that would have been deemed too unsubtle by experts in the black art. Withdraw all co-operation from this profoundly anti-democratic organisation. There is no place for a state sponsored propagandist in an independent Scotland.
Real journalists at Pacific Quay like David Miller must be cringing with embarrassment at their employer.
People are getting ahead of themselves with Lesley Riddoch’s announcement that she will be voting yes. She said she’s in the yes camp at this current time.
There’s always the chance she could change her…change from yes to…
…ach, who am I kidding.
@ Rod Mac
“I know a few people on here have managed to stop paying their licence fee I would like the details of how this can be done.”
This from TV Licensing, “You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV as it’s being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder.”
If you don’t watch or record live broadcasts, you don’t have to pay.
I would agree with the notion of playing it canny over the BBC. We should take them to task over every issue regarding fairness but let us not fall into the “they are the spawn of Satan” trap. That is the preserve of the swivel eyed right wing privatise the BBC mob. I have an issue with the current political bias of the BBC in Scotland not the concept of public service broadcaster. I can’t speak for everyone here but I would like to see an independent Scotland have a SBC.
I thought last night went better than I expected and some telling points were made and I think Farage was aware he had little or no support from the audience. 4 against 2 isn’t so much of a problem if the 4 don’t actually say much of any note.
@Albamac
“If something is beyond repair, you either do without it or replace it.” “So, resistance is futile and protest pointless?”
Step 1 – Win the referendum. Step 2 – Build your country
Let’s concentrate on step 1 by openly debating the rational of national sovereignty. I have complained several times to the BBC over the last 2 years. I totally agree that the BBC are poor value for Scotland and are London biased. We are not going to change that until step 1 is complete.
@ Albamac and anyone else interested “how to legally stop paying your TV licence”. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1487193
@Jiggsbro
Yes. Serves me right for speed reading Band of Brothers. Good quote though – I may use it more in general conversation. :0)
@ Rod Mac
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence?utm_source=MSE_Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=16-Apr-13&utm_campaign=utilities&utm_content=110#need
Link will give you all you need to know regarding payment of TV license, essentially if you don’t watch live TV but use iplayer, STVPLAYER, 4OD etc. you don’t require a licence.
@ HandandShrimp
I don’t want to privatise the BBC nor do I want to abolish Public Service Broadcasting. What I want is a Public Service Broadcaster that actually provides a public service.
There’s nothing ‘swivel-eyed’ about refusing to fund an organisation that is acting against your interests. To my mind, that’s a perfectly rational course of action.
Slightly off topic, but still regarding the BBC’s approach to Scotland.
Can anyone explain to me why the programme following the death of world-renowned author Iain Banks was only shown on BBC2 Scotland?
We did get a little bit of truth from Farage last night, when he mentioned during a rant we would be swapping our Westminster masters for european ones.
The very idea that anyone is my master makes my blood boil, but it did show exactly what he really thought of the state of Scotland, servile to Westminster.
Galloway sounded very last millennium just could not take him seriously, cant remember anything the labour guy said, it was just prattle. Ruth who ???
I think I have to agree with my wife when she said it could have been a lot better with a more experienced audience to force the panel to really show their colours, but overall Angus & lesley comfortably won the argument.
Vote NO – get nothing.
Vote YES – gain your country.
Hail Alba.
@ Albamac & Rod Mac I should have said I havent actually followed that proceedure myself but might be worth a try? Dont know for sure about the real legalities involved But it would appear some people have done it.
@ Weedeochandorris
I haven’t paid them a penny for quite some time.
@HandandShrimp
Good point. Its not the institution, its the bods who are running the thing. There are also some pretty decent journos there. The likes of Bateman, Miller and I. Fraser spring to mind. Haven’t seen much of Ms Fraser on screen recently though.
I stopped paying the fee about a year ago. Waited for the knock at the door, welcomed them in to inspect, made them write down my reason(bias) and haven’t heard a peep since. It felt liberating.
Question Time last night was the first thing I’ve watched on the BBC since their appalling Have I Got News For You a few weeks ago – apart from that, I’ve successfully boycotted all of their channels. What I saw last night isn’t going to encourage me to come back. I should stop paying the license fee, too.
@Davy
“We did get a little bit of truth from Farage last night, when he mentioned during a rant we would be swapping our Westminster masters for european ones.”
Of course joining the EU does not mean your country ceases to exist under international law. Farage’s comparison is not correct. It is his smokescreen to gain favour in Scotland. I dislike Farage and UKIP but they should not be underestimated.
Yes. Serves me right for speed reading Band of Brothers. Good quote though – I may use it more in general conversation.
For the best quotes on the advantages of being surrounded and outnumbered, check out the US Marines’ legendary General, “Chesty” Puller. “They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can’t get away from us now!”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesty_Puller#Quotes
@Albamac – we obviously have different definitions of “fair play”, as I’m not taking my hat off to the BBC – just acknowledging that I misjudged them in this case. Why was I surprised they showed his comments? Because Question Time is filmed before airing for a reason, and I know that in the past there have been times things have been “edited” from the show.
Albamac
It was the far right neo-conservatives who would hand the Beeb over to Murdoch or similar tomorrow that I was calling swivel eyed. If you go onto the Telegraph, or Guardian even, these characters virtually foam at the mouth about the “communist EU commissars at the hated BBC” I’m just keen that we differentiate our bone of contention about fairness from theirs which is purely driven by a hatred of anything that smacks of public sector. I don’t want public sector broadcasting destroyed I want it returned to balanced and fair journalism. Withholding licence fees, writing letteres, phoning in with complaints is all part of that protest. I am in agreement I just don’t want our grievance pigeon holed with the wing nuts and therefore easily ignored. I think Angus did a good job articulating that grievance last night.
I have emailed Yes Scotland and ask if they will boycott ALL BBC programmes.
We did get a little bit of truth from Farage last night, when he mentioned during a rant we would be swapping our Westminster masters for european ones
——————————————————————————————————————–
As far as i knew we were already in the EU.
The day after a Yes or No Vote we will still be in the EU so both Farage and yourself are making a spurious point.
I should point out I am not a EU supporter ,indeed post Independence I will be looking at parties that want to take Scotland out of EU.
I prefer the Norwegian model on Europe.
More BBC bias, from this mornings news on Radio Scotland. Now on iplayer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b02117k8/Good_Morning_Scotland_14_06_2013/
Start with the news
@ Doug Daniel
“we obviously have different definitions of “fair play”, as I’m not taking my hat off to the BBC – just acknowledging that I misjudged them in this case. Why was I surprised they showed his comments? Because Question Time is filmed before airing for a reason, and I know that in the past there have been times things have been “edited” from the show.”
In this context, Doug, the use of the phrase ‘fair play’ is, for me, similar to an Australian saying, “Good on you!”
The unpleasant fact is that you didn’t misjudge them. Based on your own observation of their past behaviour, you expected that they’d doctor the footage and were pleasantly surprised when they didn’t. I don’t think they deserve any credit for that and I don’t think we should wag our tails when, having paid for meat, they throw us a bone.