Letters to the editor
Posted on
October 07, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
From today’s Daily Record:
Better late than never, eh?
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Sorry for the YES voters of Aberdeen and the First Scotrail workforce, but anything that teaches the mainstream Big Business, Councillors, Pensioners and GB United that even in Aberdeen shit happens if you :
A; Constantly scaremonger
B; Are a ‘complicit apparatchik’
or
C; A selfish sit on your hands feart Daily Mail / Press and Journal reading antiquarian (Im alright jack !)
Now maybe if Aberdeen and surrounding areas had the guts to go for a less elfish future for Scotland and supported YES, who knows ?
Same goes for the other big No voting areas,
Orkney (The tides are rising folks, but GB will save the day!)
Borders (Who knew ?)
Dumfries & Galloway (Again who knew ?)
Shetland (Wee secret deals with Dave boy Eh ?)
Western Isles (Sadest of all; but then GB are big lovers of Gaelic)
Remember guys, you won the ref.
No bleating when things go wrong in GB; you voted for it.
The Labour Party is an secular cult.
Sorry about the supernumerary n or is it just misplaced?
O/T NEW RAIL FRANCHISE
Aslef are bumping their gums about the decision on the BBC website:
“Rail union Aslef, which had called for the franchising process to be put on hold pending more powers for Holyrood, said awarding the contract to Dutch firm Abellio was a “perverse” decision.
General secretary Mick Whelan said it was “ironic that the SNP government at Holyrood, like the Conservatives at Westminster, are happy to have a state-owned railway running a franchise as long as it is a foreign state – Abellio is owned by the Dutch government – rather than our own state”.
Is he for real, does he not know there are no powers about the railway mentioned in the Not Now Brown vow, or anywhere else for that matter. The only remote chance was with a YES vote, and even then, privatisation was probably years and years away!!!
Also is he not aware of the UK primacy in railway legislation( Railways Act 1993, section 25 prohibits public ownership) and EU competition laws? The man is a fool!
Here is a link to the Tender process
link to transportscotland.gov.uk
The Scottish Govt also said the new contract would result in:
A guarantee of no compulsory redundancies throughout the life of the contract
A commitment to earnings of at least the living wage for all staff and subcontractors
Protection of rail staff pensions and travel rights
At least 100 apprenticeships
Trade union representation at franchise board meetings.
Ah, something positive, but ASLEF are too narrow minded and anti-SNP they can’t bring themselves to acknowledge a good deal. I despair at their lack of knowledge and understanding.
@Marcia:
Regional train tariffs are fixed by the regions themselves. So, your mileage may vary.
How much did you pay?
@ No no no…Yes
Ah, something positive, but ASLEF are too narrow minded and anti-SNP they can’t bring themselves to acknowledge a good deal. I despair at their lack of knowledge and understanding.
It is not that it is their total, slavish, cultish commitment to Labour and thus anything that the SNP is bad and wrong.
Full frontal lobotomised, they are Yoda.
Some else is turning up at George SQ on Sunday.
“Scottish actor Martin Compston: I’m determined to keep the independence dream alive.”
link to scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.uk
AuldA
I think we paid 18 Euros each way.
McTernan defending his postal vote comments.
“Former Labour spin doctor takes to Twitter to deny misconduct in Scottish Independence referendum.”
link to thedrum.com
Marcia
£12 in Farenheit then?
@Marcia:
€16.80 says the SNCF website. For about 90 km.
How much do you pay to go by train from Edinburg to Glasgow?
The Netherlands railway is very good and reasonably priced.
AuldA
I would be as well continuing the theme of French rail service bashing.
I was going to get a train from La Harve (working in dockyard) round the coast to the D-Day landings and they were wanting a wee fortune for a return ticket.
I ended up going for a walk round the cliffs of La Harve.
Aulda A
Not the 3 times cheaper that was implied.
I would never travel from Edinburgh to Glasgow.
Scotrail seem to hike the prices from Dundee. If you want to travel to Edinburgh it is £5 cheaper to buy a day return to Leuchars then get a day return to Edinburgh from Leuchers. Same for Glasgow. Buy a day return to Perth then get another ticket to Glasgow.
I sincerely hope you’ve all heeded Ian Brotherhoods call to support Scottish Independence Live Events.
Kevin & Del (and others) have done an incredible job in bringing us so many of the indy debates that we would otherwise not have seen.
C’mon people DIG DEEP and let’s keep their show on the road. We are going to need them more than ever now, and we need to counter the MSM every way we can.
link to indiegogo.com
Marcia posted link to this short film on the first chunk of this thread.
It is a must-watch, especially for those who voted No.
(Currently has 3171 views)
Please spread by all possible means –
Dr David Patrick, ‘Writing Off Scotland’ –
link to youtube.com
caz-m: interesting, I used to occasionally travel to Caen for work, and the only suitable flight was from Edinburgh to Le Havre. Taxi the rest of the way for me!
I read that Barcelona are to be ejected from La Liga if Catalonia opts for independence.
Can the SFA please invite Barca (and any other teams impacted) a temporary home in the Scottish Leagues until things get sorted. They can bring their Champions League & Europa spots with them.
Can I also ask Scotland’s top form team and Champions League contenders 2016 – Hamilton – to support this friendly offer?
WM2015 & Holy2016 and splitting the Pro-Indy vote. A large number of voters clearly understand tactical voting.
Contrast the patterns between 2010 & 2011.
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Obviously the difference between Lab WM and Holyrood is pure tactical voting. Similarly the differences between Holyrood constituency and regional voting.
We all hope things have changed and are changing as more people reject Labour. With the failure to deliver DevoMax and it becoming clear we are not Better Together, the Unionist vote should continue downwards.
Also in 2015 and even perhaps 2016, the Unionist vote will be split further by UKIP.
So, all the discussion about what the different pro Indy parties should do about WM2015. I suspect voters will simply chose SNP over SSP and Greens in the first past the post. There are constituencies with some significant Green votes ie Edinburgh East
Labour Sheila Gilmore 43.4%
SNP George Kerevan 20.4%
Liberal Democrat Beverley Hope 19.4%
Conservative Martin Donald 10.9%
Scottish Green Robin Harper 5.1%
My guess is Green voters may simply tactically vote SNP.
Holyrood 2016 has the advantage of a system approaching proportional representation. On the face of it pro Indy voters should chose the party/parties on merit. However, it isn’t absolute PR and the final seats won doesn’t precisely reflect votes cast. There is still potential for tactical voting to have an influence.
So I suppose what I am saying is that if there fails to be cross Indy party electoral agreement, then good old fashioned tactical voting, as practiced, might achieve just as much. MHO is there will be no agreements.
Regarding the prospects of an independence alliance, perhaps a wee bit of horse trading is in order. For example, SSP and Greens could step aside and endorse SNP candidates, in key Labour constituencies in 2015, in return for a few favours to help elect a few Green/SSP MSPs in 2016.
It probably won’t happen (politics being politics), but it is absolutely essential that a significant number of Labour MPs fall in 2015. If the dust settles, and they are all left standing (on yet another unsuccessful “keep the tories out” ticket), then you can say goodbye to Devomax, and so long to another indy referendum for at least another decade.
I’m really hoping that people’s patience with Labour has finally run out, but dirty old habits die hard and I can see the barstewards just scraping it, if the Indy movement doesn’t get it’s act together.
@Linda McFarlane
“They are not part of the SSP – Scottish Socialist Party. However I do not know if they have a working relationship with the SSP. Maybe The SSP can clarify?”
They’re nothing at all to do with the SSP, though the similarity of the name suggests they’re trying to associate themselves with the SSP, perhaps in the hope of gaining some “accidental” members in the recent membership increase for the Yes Alliance parties.
There are a lot of groups out there claiming to be socialists, although some actually campaigned against independence out of some belief that we should stand together with the workers in England, despite the fact that there’s little we can do for them as things stand right now.
Make no mistake, the SSP’s main aim is independence.
We went along with the Yes Alliance as they were the best option at the time for achieving independence. If the SNP have a plan for resuming the fight that doesn’t cut us out, then we’ll go along with that as we did before.
As for SC’s question… Like Ian, I’m just a regular member of the SSP (joined up in anger against the Bedroom Tax, which the SSP Ayrshire branch were very active in campaigning against in Irvine and the Three Towns, they were the only ones visible when I was looking for someone to ally with against it, so I joined with them).
My own personal opinion is that the SNP don’t really go far enough with their vision of independence. I would prefer FULL independence, severing all ties with Westminster.
However, independence is the main goal, and I’m happy to go along with that and, once it’s achieved, I’d vote to have the SSP in power.
So I see the SNP vision of independence as a “starting point”, a goal to aim for in the meantime to secure us some freedom from Westminster. So I’ll vote for whoever I think has the best chance of booting out the unionists in my constituency.
As for the actual leadership of the SSP, you’d be better off asking them yourself what their official position is.
If you want to know anything else, feel free to ask. But slinging insults at my party, and generally throwing a tantrum because your question wasn’t answered immediately is only going to create real divisions out of imagined ones.
As for the whole Tommy Sheridan matter, I joined the party some time AFTER all that went down, so I won’t comment on it, as I don’t know all the details, and we all have bigger things to deal with than looking for the full story of something that’s better left in the past.
As for the Sunday event. Not sure I’ll be there, depends on whether or not I can get rid of this cold before then.
If I do make it, I’ll maybe see you there Alex
@Fiona says:
8 October, 2014 at 8:50 am:
” It does not really answer the question, however, because what I want to know is if the SNP will agree not to contest a seat if it is more likely to fall to an independence candidate of another stripe, be it independent, green, SSP or anything else.”
Well, Fiona, I can give you one kind of answer but it won’t be anything like an official SNP answer. The SNP are a true Democratic Party and their official policy is to stand a candidate in every Scottish seat and they have done so for many years. No one, and that includes the present Leader and the leader in waiting who both only have the same number of votes as any other established member. (new members must wait before getting full voting rights). Policy is NOT made by the leadership on the hoof but by the party at National Conference. So, until conference, and unless there are proposals from branches, that policy must remain.
I have no doubt, though, that the matter will be under consideration at branches throughout Scotland and at headquarters as we speak. In most cases the SNP are indeed the most likely party to win seats and Jim Sillers and Tommy Sherridan have both already voiced their, personal views on the matter. So there it is – no official SNP view can be made until the matter is debated and voted upon at National SNP Conference. Note also that motions from individuals must come via branch motions, seconded and voted upon and submitted to national conference. Just as was the NATO matter seen on TV before the World. One of the most public demonstrations of true democracy the World has ever witnessed.
BTW: Just listened to Bruce at the LibDem conference talking utter tripe and claiming, (with the usual insulting pejorative slant), that decisions on declaring independence or another referendum are being left to, “The Politburo”, in Edinburgh. Will these numpties never learn?
@Marcia:
It was a bit provocative. Agreed.
So, what you try to explain me, is that it is cheaper to take the plane from Glasgow to Amsterdam then Amsterdam to Edinburg than to take the train?
@ Ian Brotherhood, 11:45am
Thanks Ian and Marcia for the link to Dr Patrick’s analysis of newspaper referendum coverage.
I shall share it as widely as possible.
‘socialists’ didn’t stand by Tommy against Murdoch
Aberdeen/shire have a lot of incomers. So has Moray/Orkney? They will not vote Yes but vote SNP.
The “spat” shows two things.
1). We should all double-check to make sure we’re not firing off gainst innocent parties.
2). Posters contribute voluntarily to forums. My answer if I’m pushed for an opinion I don’t want to give is “I don’t do requests”.
Just read backwards through this thread.
Donald Anderson: I can only assume you didn’t. The “abuse” came from Schrödinger’s Cat rather than being directed at him. He also was not seeking the independent views of SSP members who pointed out his mistake, but asking for the SSP position (see his post at 10.10pm last night for example). I already explained that we have a conference at the end of the month which I anticipate providing an answer to his question. He has subsequently
sought individual opinions.
I can only assume he thinks people have no life other than being attached to WoS since he thinks that a lack of an instant response means that people such as myself have “done a runner” or are “cowering behind their own fuckin keyboards”. Supreme irony coming from a guy who operates under a pseudonym.
I have other things to do in life and certainly don’t feel any need to respond to people like him/her, but if he is going to abuse the SSP on the basis of wrong information and his own ignorance, I will respond.
I have previously stated my personal view anyway: it is that I think there is little point in standing candidates next year. I also don’t believe that there will be a Yes Alliance. The SNP will stand in each seat. It will be up to the Greens and SSP to decide their own strategy.
I am out of here for the night…..
Hi David. How are you doing?
Point taken. As you know there were all sorts of people with varying views and behavioural patterns in the SSP and looks like there still is, not the ones on here as they obviously are for Independence. I just remember the ones who say they are for it now, but were not only anti Independence when pushed, but anti Scottish; self racist, self hating and self loathing North Brits.
The last Conference I attended I ended up in McConnell’s Bar at the top of Hope Stand and they were all supporting France against Scotland on the telly footie match. I am not a footie fan, but that said everything about them to me. The next day we all walked out when the Conference remitted our motion again and for the last time to entrench Clause V for an Independent Socialist Scotland.
Brotherhood seems OK.
Ye’ still torturing animals in the Uni labs?
yesindyref2,
“Rock
You seem intent on causing a few ripples, but it seems to be sinking without a trace.”
I will never accept that BBC bias was not deliberate.
If we discount rigging, we lost the referendum SOLELY because of deliberate and utter BBC bias, NOTHING ELSE.
If you disagree with that, please say so unambiguously.
The Labour party needs to be ruthlessly pursued to demonstrate it’s self interest, lies and hypocrisy. Whilst Slab is strong in Scotland there is little chance of achieving indy.
Don’t assume that Slab cannot hang onto almost all of it’s WM seats with the happy compliance of the BBC, Record, Herald etc. These propagandists are not thick, but their weakness is to assume that the Scots pop are not only thick, but have the collective memory of a goldfish.
The promises made about devomax, devosupermax, home rule, etc should be pursued. It’s not that anything remotely like these promises will transpire, it’s just that it’s politically expedient and reasonable to do so. If by some miracle devomax is delivered, then it will become blatantly obvious that the extra £10bn remitted to WM every year for debt, defence etc really seems to be a bit rubbish in terms of VFM.
The scale of the betrayal of the WM parties must be made obvious. They know that they will have to spin this over as long a time as possible so that the betrayal is less immediate in the mind of the Scots pop. They already assume that the Holyrood election of 2016 might turn out to be another ref, hence the 2017 date on the “more powers”. Prepare for an announcement in the run up to HR 2016 – “We’ll give devo max, honest we will, no we really mean it this time, just vote Labour.
Now Stu if that does produce a bead of sweat on your brow…
“We’ll give devo max, honest we will, no we really mean it this time, just vote Labour.
Erm.. will that be New New Labour this time
in john king post 8 October, 2014 at 6:26 am
“I think wee Scotland has enough room for people of all beliefs to thrive”
an independent Scotland will not be a one party state, it needs opinion from all sides
can I remind all to avoid any party that prefixes itself with Scottish while being run as a puppet of a Westminster party, you know who the prime suspects are remember they are the true enemy of the Scots people
Gillie that would be Shiny New Labour with a whole lot of trashy trinkets and baubles for the natives – possibly shells and feathers too but NO mirrors lest they see!
Something people need to be aware of is that the SNP is constitutionally bound to contest every seat in Scotland. Now I imagine that can be overcome or set aside, indeed I think it has been once to let a Shetland Party candidate get a clear run against a LibDem, but it’s neither simple nor automatic.
Another point is, I can’t think of a single seat where even the Greens, never mind the SSP, are better placed to win than the SNP. Once you recognise that, it begins to sound like a plea for the Greens and the SSP simply to stand down in favour of the SNP. That isn’t necessarily going to be to everyone’s agreement.
Are Green or SSP activists going to happy to campaign for the SNP? Or will some of them at least sit it out? Bear in mind that some Green Party members aren’t in favour of independence – Robin Harper for a start.
Another point to consider is the reaction of the voters. Voters don’t necessarily like having their choices constrained, and can behave strangely if they think they’re being pushed in a particular direction. Green and even SSP votes can’t be assumed to be gifted directly to the SNP. Also, many people have recently joined both these parties, and didn’t join the SNP. How happy would they be to discover their newly-vitalised party had decided to step back in favour of the SNP as its first action after gaining all these new members?
So it’s not as simple as it sometimes seems. I’m sure there are discussions and talks going on. But I wouldn’t be all that surprised if multiple independence-supporting candidates did stand for quite a few constituencies in the end. And there may be very good reasons for that happening.
A third of the Greens were Nomen before the new recruits came in and some of them are Nos.
The Greens used t aske for a second list vote. Don’t know what they will do now.
I am fine, Donald. I remember that conference somewhat. Was there a vote on remitting? If so, I am pretty sure I would have voted against remission, but it is a long time ago.
Regardless, I think SSP members campaigned as hard as anyone for Yes, and that may be because the groupings that left with Sheridan were the least enthusiastic for independence, though perhaps you disagree.
As to the France game, I am pretty sure I watched that game in the Station Bar, possibly with Allan Green. No French fans there!
You still butchering btw?
On a final point, Morag has given a pretty accurate analysis of where things lie. I agree that even in the absence of an SNP candidate, there would be little chance of a Green or SSP candidate winning a Westminster seat. But winning such seats has never been the aim of such Parties contesting Westminster constituencies. It is about building profile, membership, accessing media, offering a choice to supporters etc. There is a mood abroad of using the GE to challenge Unionist parties in general, and Labour in particular, and that may over-ride other considerations.
Hi David. Hope we meet up at some point. Maybe the annual John MacLean rally and social, November 30?
There was no vote. At 3.20am we were told that there was “no time” and it was remitted for another year. Pretty insulting, don’t you think? That was when we walked. The first time we moved to entrench the Clause for an “Independent Socialist Scotland”, we were asked to leave it, as it “was badly worded”. Being trusting naïve souls we agreed and it was kicked into touch. The next Conference it was massively outvoted and the movers against, called it “Fascist, Stalinist Racist and anti English”. This was a move to entrench an existing clause’ Dave, who drafted it also happened to be English. At the Perth Conference. We greed to let them remit it to National Council, At National Council we were told that it was “constitutional” and therefore can’t be discussed and was defeated again at the next Conference. Alan Green National Secretary, said after the split, that it should pass easily as the SWP had left. I didn’t think so as the ISM were the biggest opponent and by then had admitted that they were against Independence. This was openly stated in the previous two issue of their paper “Frontline’, or whatever it was called. When it was knocked back again at Conference, on the grounds of time, we walked. Our decision to leave had nothing to do with Tommy Sheridan and we thought the whole thing was badly handled by the SSP, a supposedly “streetwise” party. I was friendly with both Tommy and Alan McCombes who wrote a book attacking him and Rosie Kane who took part in a play attacking him. Others in the Executive took money from Rupert slagging Tommy off. Very ill advised, I thought and I will tell you why, but don’t want to bore others here.
Donald, I know you didn’t leave over Sheridan, but didn’t know the ins and outs of the things you refer to. I recall George McNeilage selling tapes to the NotW, but he wasn’t an Exec member as far as I recall, so don’t know who you are referring to. I remember Sheridan took £30K from the Record and used it’s pages to attack plenty people from the SSP.
Anyway, we can shoot the breeze about the bad old days and preferably more positive things on the 30th Nov. Post up the details when you have them. Is the social open to U-16s?
Morag,
Who would be better placed to unseat Ian Davidson in Glasgow – Tommy Sheridan or an SNP candidate?
If the SNP is serious about independence, it will have to be pragmatic and give better placed pro independence candidates from other parties a free run in some constituencies at least.
That will also result in other parties supporting SNP candidates where they have a better chance.
A Yes Alliance for 2015 is vital to further the independence cause.
@ Rock – as the constituencies are presently configured (for the UK GE) I see none of them where anyone other than the SNP has a chance. I say that as a Green Party member, I await with great interest the signals that will come from the SNP conference.
Paula Rose,
“as the constituencies are presently configured (for the UK GE) I see none of them where anyone other than the SNP has a chance.”
So you think an SNP candidate has a better chance than Tommy Sheridan of unseating Ian Davidson in Glasgow?
We will only ever get independence if we outsmart the establishment at their own game.
After the referendum, it is no more Labour v SNP, it is unionists v Independence activists.
There are many constituencies where non SNP independence activitists will have a better chance of unseating Labour MPs.
The fact is Yes won in Labour ‘heartlands’ but lost in SNP ‘heartlands’.
Unless a new strategy is adopted, we will inevitably see all those Labour MPs back at Westminster in 2015.
Cab I recommend Scotish Economy watch independance as a read–