Lest we forget
Just a year and six days ago:
Now, maybe not so much.
Of course, the Type 26 contracts may still be awarded to Govan. And as it’s possible they won’t be awarded even now Scotland has voted No, it’s clearly also possible that they might not have been awarded after a Yes. (Though of course that latter outcome is less likely that we were told it was, since we now know for certain that the UK government IS prepared to have the work done in a foreign country after all.)
The difference is that an independent Scotland would still have needed its own navy, keeping the yards in work for many years – indeed, forever, when you factor in maintenance and replacement. The Type 26 orders wouldn’t have been the be-all and end-all of survival. Only a No vote has put those thousands of jobs at risk.
It’s a fact worth keeping in mind the next time Scottish Labour tells you anything, or the next time someone gives you a choice and you think it might be the smart idea to leave London in control of Scotland’s future.
.
As an Englishman, I can assure you it is not a smart idea to leave London in control of anybody’s future.
Maybe just me being cynical but what if this is the scenario that plays out in the next few months.
Up until about March, these stories continue to come out about concerns over contract. “Scottish” Labour tell everyone that the problem has been the uncertainty brought about by Indy ref and now Smith Commission. In Marxh, contract is awarded to Glasgow, and trade unions and BAE all thank Jim Murphy for riding to the rescue. In run up to GE2015, Glasgow Labour activists trumpet how “we saved the day” and lo and behold YES Alliance in Glasgow does not succeed
Justba thought from an old cynic
The MOD doesn’t seem to be concerned about jobs at Govan.
Navy admirals don’t seem to be concerned at all about jobs at Govan.
Even Labour pundits seem less concerned about jobs at Govan.
Govan has served its purpose in delivering a No vote.
@gillie.
Did Govan not deliver a Yes vote?
Let’s wait and see….. but ‘sharpen your knives’ just in case !
At the toime of the GE2015 Labour branch office will be spouting vote labour and they will make sure the Type26 contracts will come to the Clyde.
We and the SNP must collect all evidence between now and then about contracts and how they can’t be broken, to counter any spurious claims from Slabour.
Westminster blackmail game continues! Might, might not, depends. Do this do that, jump, sit!
Scotland has now become the largest children’s game venue for hireable!
21st Century politics gone wrong!
Hold the people to ransom over jobs and investment. Whatever happened to the concept of representation, did it even really exist?
@John G
Your scenario whilst it may take place, won’t take place because of any planning. Remember the Tories are fighting Labour in the general election, and with one eye looking at UKIP in England, the very last thing they are going to do is help-out Labour.
If they award the contract to BAE then it’ll be for other reasons – Scotland and its branch offices of UK political parties will have very little or no bearing on that decision.
Is anyone keeping a list of all the lies exposed so far? It might help in avoiding the risk of history being re-written for us in the run up to the next referendum….
How the hell are the BBC and Daily Rag going to gloss this over?
I doubt they’ll even have the decency to challenge those who appeared on their screens/pages re the Loss of Ship Building if we vote no during the Referendum.
They were after all, complicit in ensuring that the message got out there in order to turn the Fear Factor to 11.
They can’t possibly back track now. To disagree (if they dared) with the Better Together message now would just highlight how they (BBC & Daily Rag), were Better Together with them too..
So what now? Do they just dig a bigger hole or let it all play out like John G says at 11:35am?
Interesting times ahead as ALL the Better Together, No Thanks uKOK’er claims are unraveling daily (and I include the Shite Bags in the MSM in with that too)
@John G:
The narrative you describe is probable, but it’s a classic example of Westminster pols taking the entire Scottish electorate to be morons. Most will see right through it.
Their calculation is that just enough won’t. This is where you, me, and the Rev come in. We need rejoin the dots for the politically disengaged.
I wonder what, if anything, Ian Davidson will have to say about this. After all, he spent the entire referendum campaign claiming independence would close the Clyde yards. He also made this same assertion in the Westminster referendum debate. Lamont, Sarwar and Murphy all spouted this same scaremongering. Comments would be interesting from all these fear peddlers too.
@John G
Like you, I had considered “Labour claiming to ride to the rescue’ a likely scenario, however an important point is that Labour et al made their No campaign point on the back of the fact that the MoD do not commission (in peacetime) these type of ships overseas, when in fact the MoD were actually considering it, as we have the MoD spokesperson admitting.
So either the No campaign had their facts wrong, in which case the parties supporting that campaign should admit that they were ignorant, or they knew the possibility of the contract being awarded o/s but chose not to mention it.
And they can be reminded of this ignorance or duplicity, even if the contract is (and most likely will be), awarded to the Clyde.
Defence Secretary confirms that ships will be built on the Clyde:
link to theguardian.com
It also says a lot about the overwrought histrionics and rabble-rousing of the Nats that a single remark to a journalist (made at arms-length from government by a non-ministerial figure with no responsibility for policy to a foreign journal) apparently translates into absolute settled policy.
“Defence Secretary confirms that ships will be built on the Clyde:”
No he doesn’t. Read what he actually said. We have a feature coming up in a few minutes that’ll help you.
It could be possible that there has been horse-trading with France that in return for taking one of Royal Navy’s superfluous air craft carriers off our hands,the MOD buy the frigates from France.If that was the case then its a done deal.
Labour is far too busy today running about bigging up Ed Miliband. Question, has anyone any recollection of Ed talking about the low wages and zero hour contracts, because all I remember is more austerity,
OT,
The Independent have a piece on ‘How much for dinner with David Cameron?’
link to archive.today
The ‘leaders group’ (so much easier to pay to the run the country instead of all that messy democracy stuff).
It includes the founder of Betfair (we paid out early on a no vote) and of course our old chum Ian Taylor.
It’s a shame that the journalist doesn’t bother to do a thorough job of looking at the interests and tax affairs of the full list which is linked to at
link to conservatives.com
Archive doesn’t seem to work with pdf pages?
Well, NO VOTERS are having ever more reasons to ponder their
decisions. Hell mend them, for letting Scotland down.
Maybe, just maybe, they are learning their hard lesson.
YOU CANNOT TRUST LABOUR, NOR ANY WESTMINSTER PARTY, EVER!
Got it?
@JohnG
I would say that there’s a possibility the complete opposite may happen. Cynical Tories might decide to shut the yard (what have they got to lose in Scotland apart from one MP) and the SNP benefits at Labour’s expense by cutting into Labour’s crucial quota of Scottish MPs, thus helping the Tories gain victory in May.
Or am I being too cynical?
Mentioned this to a 70-something, female Glaswegian Labour and No relative yesterday. Also a BBC and DR only person. You know, the kind of demographic that BT really loved. Her response was “I’ve got more to worry me and why don’t you let it go, you’re the only person I know who is still going on about this”
Much as I love her, that is so selfish, clueless, ignorant etc. What chance of progress when people like that can vote?!
Shipyards are a meme for Scotland’s struggle. They represent the betrayal of the Scottish people by the very party that people loyally believed was representing them.
The Westminster, Labour and their tame media are intent on using the shipyards as a political pawn. They are still very much in anti-SNP mode. They still have red alert status at Westminster with regards to independence. They know that the flames of independence are burning brighter than ever… and they are determined to put them out.
This shipyard story is one of many debacles which will emerge over the next few months. It really doesn’t matter what the story is… Or the rights and wrongs of it. It will be SPUN as positive SLAB in a determined effort to claw back Scotland.
The shipyards are a ‘shot across our bows’ . It’s reminding us where the power lies.
However, there is a gap to be bridged between the right wing rhetoric and policies of New Labour and Scotland’s social justice agenda. It’s not enough to scare Scotland, it needs someone to convince the electorate that Scotland deserves what it gets and that the future cannot be any better.
This is one hell of an ask. It is almost an impossible job.
Murphy, the right-wind messiah from Westminster, you know,the man who supports Uni Fees and Trident replacement…. The man who represents Miliband and Westminster Labour. .. Right?
Well, I have been thinking. He is the ideal man for the job.
The Job: Hypocrite Leadership Role.
Person required to lead a bunch of self-serving, lying, hypocrites who are more interested in their career, their party and their expenses, rather than the people they were originally elected to serve.
Person must look as though their loyalties are to the residents of Scotland while actually serving Westminster masters.
They should be able to watch Scotland’s resources being squandered and the country being fracked and run down into further economic hardship, without regard, remorse or regret.
They should not care about Scotland’s youth or the ongoing economic migration. They should be able to sell that as natural evolution of talent to London.
They must be a two faced, double dealing, ("Tractor" - Ed)ous, leach.
To be successful in the role, the candidate will need to be able to twist the truth of the Westminster-Scotland relation, such that the residents of Scotland are deceived into believing that there is no better future for Scotland, except more economic torture and misery at the hands of London parties.
Good listening skills are not required. The successful candidate needs to have the arrogance to tell the residents of Scotland what is the right medicine for them. And to stop at nothing to force them to accept the Westminster medicine.
The role requires someone who can:
– Say something and mean something else.
– Say nothing and look like it means something.
– Regurgitate Labour soundbites when under very occasional media pressure.
– Tell lies without remorse or gulf when discovered.
– Deny failures and mistakes with smile.
– Claim responsibility for any other party’s success (particularly if its SNP)
– Stab colleagues in the back while warmly shaking their hand and praising them.
– Wax lyrically about Keir Hardie, Labour and the NHS, while ignoring all Labour incompetence of the past 50 years.
Benefits of the role include Salary and Pension three times the national average and generous expenses.
It will take a special person to fill this role. They will be a third rate politician in charge of a fourth rate team, who cannot be trusted with anything except their own aggrandisement.
Murphy as I see you convincing the shipyards that Labour were actually right pre referendum, I realise that you are the man for the job. You really have everything it takes to shit on shipyard workers and the residents of Scotland, from a great height.
Any day now.
Any day and I’m sure being better together will start…
… or maybe not.
From Maddox in the Scotsman:
“A spokeswoman for the MoD told The Scotsman that no decision has been made yet on the frigate contract and confirmed that the First Sea Lord had reflected the MoD’s current position.”
There you go, @RJF, that “single remark to a journalist (made at arms-length from government by a non-ministerial figure with no responsibility for policy to a foreign journal) apparently translates into” a confirmation by the MoD.
Or did you miss that bit?
Somewhere in Norway,a thriving shipbuilding industry workforce is too busy enjoying fullorder books, a high standard of living and exceptional working conditions to notice.
Watched FMQ’s Alex Salmonds last. He had me laughing, he was brilliant.
aye james,
apparently the BBC are in full Salmond bashing mode today, not really surprised.
Meanwhile ED milliband is making his ‘fighting back speech this afternoon.
that man couldnae fight bloody sleep.
taliking if which i have insomnia at the moment so maybe should have a listen to him later tonight on bbc archive,that will put me right out.
cheers ED..
Makes you wonder why Scottish shipyards should depend on weapons of war, when there is a whole oil industry to build and service.
Nearly all the rigs, floaters, supply boats are made abroad. Norway makes her own.
Funny that
RMF Brown. You make a good point.
With the situation as it is, the more the Tories shaft Scotland, the more it will reflect on the total and complete eejits, otherwise known as SLab who climbed into bed with them.
We’re going to see more of this.
O/T (apologies) Any alert readers heard anything about a joint announcement by Donald Trump and Prestwick Airport management?
I heard there was to be a press conference, but wondering if it was a wind-up.
RMFBrown
Thank goodness there is someone more cynical than me. But what if this has been agreed within Better Together and was part of the agreement on putting together “the vow”? But that Better Togetherness has already been torn apart by EVEL.
I think that both red/blue Tories will put their spin on every single story over the next seven months. The Scottish electorate will return to vote as they have always done and we will be sitting there shaking our heads wondering what we have to do for people to see the bigger picture.
Our only hope is to get out and speak to more people and put our side of every story. Only then will we be able to counter TV. And the MSM.
Ye, gods! What a mess these NO votes are causing for Scotland and its people.
A YES would have seen orders being placed on these bloody Clyde shipyards for Scottish navy needs – much more of long term value than the ever decreasing and grudged orders coming our way from stoopid English navy wallahs.
I’ve moved on and given up any pretence that NO voters should be quietly forgiven for a fearful, gullible decision to vote NO.
I despair at the 90 minute patriots who belt out FoS – but clearly voted NO, they know who they are.
I’m scunnered with the Scottish rugby players who claim allegiance to Scotland and then openly advocate voting NO.
I praise Andy Murray for having the guts and gumption to call for YES.
We’re in a mess no mistake and a huge propaganda machine to fight off, which we will not in a million years be able to do, so another way is needed. Knowing your limitations is the first step to succeeding eventually. Keep awake.
“made at arms-length from government by a non-ministerial figure with no responsibility for policy to a foreign journal”
If there is one thing to take from the indyref campaign,it is to listen to EVERY comment. Nothing that comes out from the type of person mentioned above is that it very probably will happen to be a ministerial view.Sounding board stuff,kite flying and political farting aboot of the highest order. We don’t fall for this stuff anymore like some may have done pre Sept 18th.
Nothing comes out of Westminster/Whitehall without being pre approved in some way I’ll wager.
John G @ 1135am
The last thing that the Cameron will want to do is make Labour look good in this. If, as we are being told, the Scottish Labour seats are crucial to Ed Milliband’s small chance of becoming PM, then what better opportunity to destroy his chances than to renege on the Type 26 promise? After all, it was the Red Tories that were shouting about it from the Govan rooftops during the referendum campaign (on behalf of their Better Together chums of course).
First Osbourne’s fracking fund for N England, and now the threat to the Type 26 contract. It’s almost as if there is an election coming! Things are looking pretty bleak for Labour. More “bad news” to come, methinks.
I think Ian Davidson has just had a bayonet stuck up his backside.
RJF
“It also says a lot about the overwrought histrionics and rabble-rousing of the Nats”
That’s right RJF. We ‘rabble-rousing’ Nats will continue to hunt down and prise open any small cracks in the flimsy wall of your corrupt unionist establishment until the whole thing comes tumbling down and Scotland is finally rid of it. It is our raison d’être.
You are waisting your time if you think your farting in the wind will prevent the inevitable break up of your beloved yookay.
The British American Project. (BAP) The most powerful network in the UK, turned it’s face away from supporting Independence for Scotland and unleashing it’s awesome power decided the outcome of the referendum
BAP is unashamedly a vehicle for American foreign policy, recruiting Britons of liberal or left-of-centre inclinations and political talent and connections when they are young, indoctrinating them with propaganda about the virtues of American capitalism and America’s role in the world, and then watching them approvingly as they steer British politics in an ever more pro-Washington direction.
The project’s greatest success has been New Labour.
There are now over 1,000 leaders, rising stars and opinion formers from a broad spectrum of occupations, backgrounds and political views. It is an elite corporate/political talking and networking organisation.
Members include some of the most powerful men and women in the UK. Its aims are to ensure that the left and liberal intelligentsia are not hostile to US foreign policy interests.
It holds an annual conference to which journalists are not invited and at which everything said is, officially at least, not to be repeated to outsiders.
It rarely features in the mainstream media, instead, it makes tantalisingly vague and fleeting appearances in those corners of the internet where conspiracy aficionados gather.
link to caltonjock.com
BBC have it hidden here: link to bbc.co.uk
BAE have already started ploughing money into Scotstoun, have they not? Surely it would cost Westminster financially in compensation to BAE as well as in trust, to abandon Clydeside now?
Also, perhaps Portsmouth should be reminded how they have also been cra##ed on if contracts go to France.
From the “Scotland’s Future” document, an independent Scottish Navy would be formed around RN hand-me-downs plus 2 frigates, with total personnel less than half the size of current RN staffing in Scotland. The idea that a Scottish Defence Force which would only want a handful of patrol vessels plus a token contribution to NATO would be “keeping the yards in work for many years” is completely risible.
It’s strange to see progressive nationalists such as yourselves suddenly becoming such keen enthusiasts for the military-industrial complex.
Aye, these grumbling auto defensive unionists really are going to have to stop moaning and move on. We however,aren’t going away-why should we?
Support for independence has never been higher,we’re just getting started. Move on and get used to the new reality.
RJF
At least the ship would be here.. in Scottish waters . last time the Russian navy wandered into our waters the fishing fleet tweeted the news and the nearest bloody ship was in Portsmouth.
We have nukes here not ships.
AND
Why would we need a huge Navy ????
We don’t want to fight with other countries . A defense force is more than we have now.
JayR says:
It would be interesting to know what’s worrying her. Immigrants and ebola perhaps – as these are the things the media currently tells her to worry about.
@RJF
“The Scottish Government regards support for our shipbuilding industry as a priority given our focus on maritime defence capabilities. Whilst keeping within EU procurement requirements, the Scottish Government will protect the future of Scotland’s shipyards and maintain capabilities important to our long-term interests.
This Scottish Government will take forward the procurement of four new frigates, to be built on the Clyde, preferably through joint procurement with the rest of the UK. Two of these will be ordered in the first parliamentary term of independence and, when built, will bring the number of frigates in the Scottish navy to four (the two new frigates as well as the inherited Type 23s). The Scottish Government believes that is the appropriate number of frigates in the longer term, and will order the further two frigates in time to replace the Type 23s when they are retired from service.
Recent Westminster decisions have demonstrated the importance of Scotland’s shipbuilding industry to the Royal Navy. The Ministry of Defence has also shown that it is keen to develop opportunities for joint procurement and there are strong reasons why both the Scottish and Westminster Governments would want to explore the potential for joint procurement of future naval vessels.
We also plan to prioritise procurement within the first five years of maritime patrol aircraft, based on a detailed specification of need (the numbers maintained by comparable nations suggests a potential fleet of four). Depending on negotiation with the rest of the UK on division of assets, further procurement needs will have to be addressed, including for offshore patrol vessels.
In an independent Scotland, we will, where appropriate, work with the Scottish defence industry to deliver identified Scottish defence capability requirements. Scotland would seek to work in partnership, build the necessary alliances and align our defence requirements with the collective needs and priorities of NATO allies, including the rest of the UK.
Joint procurement is in the interests of Scotland and the rest of the UK269, preserving the strengths of defence industries around the whole of the UK. Joint orders would maintain the expected numbers of jobs in the defence industries sector, including shipbuilding, and support companies as they seek to expand their business internationally.
The EU Defence Procurement Directive aims to open up the defence equipment market to competition and to contribute towards the development of an efficient European market for defence equipment. Whilst EU law allows an exemption from the requirement for open competition in certain, very limited, circumstances related to national security, it should be the exception not the norm.”
You mean this page from Scotland’s future?
If the ships are built outside Scotland then that is something that can be held against unionist promises, we will have to wait and see.
However I think Scottish opinion will only move decisively towards independence when the promised ‘security’ of union no longer holds. Shipyard promises is a small factor in that. Leaving the EU would be a bigger one. But a large drop in the value of the pound would I think be the main factor.
The UK economy has a fundamental weakness in the amount of debt it has built up, but I don’t know what mechanism would trigger a fiscal crisis, or even if there won’t be one and the debt just keeps climbing forever.
RJF
wake up man and smell the coffee, how can you blatantly post total crap on here, we have been lied to, lied to and then lied to again, the only sure way to look after Scotland, (if you even care?) is to take your head out your arse, Scotland will always get hand me downs and leftovers if we keep accepting this as the best we can achieve, lets not settle for this anymore and start to look at what we can/should achieve, I pay top tax and my money should be spent in Scotland for the benefit of Scotland and WM can stick their hand me downs up their arse, but they will need to remove their heads first
Ironically the last offshore patrol vessel for the Scottish fisheries protection fleet (the budget for which comes out of Scottish government funds) was built elsewhere due to the EU tendering rules, being that it is non-naval.
Where-as the UK (England, Wales and NI) fisheries protection fleet is part of the Royal Navy, so falls under ‘sovereign capability’ rules.
To rub salt in the wound, with this being part of the UK defence structure, we get to pay our share of their fisheries protection costs as well as 100% of our own.
Deary me.
@RJF
” the SNP benefits at Labour’s expense by cutting into Labour’s crucial quota of Scottish MPs, thus helping the Tories gain victory in May.
Or am I being too cynical?”
In suggesting that the English should get a government they didn’t vote for (courtesy of a bunch of Scottish Labour MPs who have no democratic right to vote on their affairs), yes, I think you’re being extremely cynical.
RJF
As you know fine well the Scottish yards could build ships for protection of our own waters which RN does not cover after the scrapping of Nimrod (billions pounds down toilet).
And now that the Better Together lie that no major military power buys high tech warships from another country is exposed ( Russia buying warships from France etc) there is nothing to prevent the yards from competing and winning contracts beyond Scotland.
Or do you think they are poor yards and MoD only buy from them to keep a couple of Brit Jock Uncle Tom politicians in a job.
SPUD BROON & CHARLIES NOT MY DARLIN all knew they were lyin but time has found them out ! hell mend them I hope that they go there and they lie and rot there.
Loved Salmonds comment basically no one knows what Labour stands for But we know who they stood with !I will never forget or forgive them any of them i will cast up to every labour supporter that they would rather have english tories running Scotland than Scots labour. They should hang their heads in shame!
O/t
Speed read above .
Anyone hear Mags Cur@@@t on GMS circa 08.10 ?
I’m sure she ended with ” we must put Scotland first ”
Ehhhh ? To me that’s summs SLab up , they are now considering putting ” ScotlandFirst ”
@ RJF.
BT etc were clear. vote No to save the Clyde jobs ! You got it !
Ah but yea but no but ! FFS .
Was the BT Statement right or wrong ? If right there is nothing at risk and its all a load o guff , set up for SLab to breeze in and save the day .
If wrong then we were lied to ? Which is the point of this thread ! Simples
The viability of the yard is not the issue .
Do we have a new Will on our hands? Stay on the bridge, everyone.
John G – you may be ‘an old cynic’ but I suspect you may have hit the nail on the head. What a terrifying thought – Jim Murphy riding to the rescue, I mean, not you being right!
We in Scotland are in danger of thinking in a goldfish bowl – even though we are immersed in an ocean.
There is a world out there which we are part of, to which we are connected. Scotland is not isolated – nor inconsequential.
How could it be – we are an oil rich and renewable rich country and we occupy a very strategic location on the global map.
And, we have acquired a taste for Independence from England, but also from neo-Liberalism, in which greed is king.
Other major global players are very interested in Scotland, sadly for the wrong reasons. That is part of the reason why Westminster MUST remain in economic and political control of Scotland.
We are far too important to be allowed Independence.
Consequently, we have to be rendered completely powerless.
Which is why the relentless attacks on the SNP and Independence movement will continue.
There is no going back to the cosy days when we all felt that we were part of the UK security blanket.
Westminster has removed the gloves. Their attitude now is ‘if you don’t give it to us then we’ll just take it’.
They’ve always known we would not agree to giving WM the oil, had we known how massive it was, so they just took it and shrouded their thieving in lies.
But the point is this. Globally, voters are approaching breaking point with corrupt governments and corporations.
There is global rage against greed and fraud by political and commercial leaders – the ruling classes.
The anger is growing; the tension is increasing. Soon, the people will snap as the breaking point is reached, when voters can take no more. Here in the UK, we the electorate, are going to be part of this tectonic shift.
This is not fiction.
This is happening, in the ocean surrounding the Scottish gold fish bowl.
So be prepared. Get ready. Do not be like the No voters – they are asleep, dreaming that all is well because the Union is intact even though it is cracked beyond repair.
The upheaval will come suddenly but not without warning.
Be alert. Understand what is going on – otherwise, like the No’s, you will be confused, not knowing what to do.
Keep your Wings on, – and keep the heid!
Why are we welfare dependent on the Clyde? There are dozens of cruise ships being built around the world. We used to do that, but now we don’t. There are lots of very large yachts being built for potentates and oligarchs. We used to do that, but now we don’t.
If we still built regular ships instead of warships this issue wouldn’t arise.
We are welfare dependent. That same poverty which Labour does nothing about extends to whole industries dependent in effect on state handouts. We did not build ships in the first place because we got grants. Neither did we open steel mills and build bridges and build the modern world on subsidy.
This shipbuilding legacy is just another way Westminster rules us. Canny vote yes I’ll lose ma pension, canny vote yes I’ll no get any warships tae build.
Rise above it. Leave the welfare dependency to the Proud Scot buts.
…but the lie worked and Scottish Labour served their masters well. The House of Lords awaits these protectors of the union.
It is no real surprise, shareholders do not know national bounds, they get there profit from wherever. Sure by contracts going abroad you may loose tax income from employees but the less stability in the economy, the greater control of the workforce.
The referrendum identified the threat from Scotland to the status qua and now we can expect to be undermined until we know our place and any imbalance with other areas has been addressed. I guess a faint heart does not win much.
Ref earlier comments of a Tory/ labour GE contest meaning that
The Tories will not want to assist SLAB in any way.
Yes agreed on this, however the point I have made previously stands.
Namely two different stories will be spun here by EBC/MSM (1) the London
Media will propagate a UKI/Tory/Labour agenda however (2) BBC North Britain and
The Daily record etc will propagate on a SNP/Slab contest ( no guesses
As regards who Jackie Bird / Eleanor Bradford and the reporting North
Britannia will be backing and we will have a Jim Murphy “VOW” on
The record front page at the appropriate time.