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Jingle Tins

Posted on December 16, 2013 by

Now, we’re not putting ourselves up as some sort of expert fundraising authority just because we’ve run a few successful ones, but you didn’t have to be a genius to slap your forehead with your palm last month when the official Yes Scotland campaign AND two of the country’s biggest pro-indy websites (as well as a couple of smaller ones) contrived to launch appeals for very large amounts of cash not only all at once, but in the weeks leading up to Christmas when everyone’s budgets are stretched to the limit.

Bella Caledonia

Newsnet Scotland

Yes Scotland

(To give plenty of notice so that hopefully this sort of thing doesn’t happen again, our second annual Wings fundraiser will be in late February and March 2014.)

Still, we are where we are, and all three are now entering their final phases some way short of their targets. That’s not necessarily a big deal – the Scotland Yet one looked like failing by a big distance at this stage (as did the Common Weal’s before it), but reached the finishing line after a big boost from generous Wings readers.

But time’s getting tight, and the Herald has already had a bit of a sneer about the response to the Yes Scotland pledge drive, so if you can spare a quid or two for any or all of the three, we’re sure it’d be both appreciated and well used, especially in the context of the grisly collection of Tory millionaires, bankers and spooks who just handed “Better Together” another million and a half quid.

bthumblebenefactors2

Incidentally, it may be worth noting that in a commendable attempt to use a Scottish company, Yes Scotland is using a model by which if they fail to hit their target, they won’t actually get ANY of the money promised so far, while Bella and Newsnet both get to keep whatever they’ve made whether they make their goals or not.

(The system is also stupidly irritating to use, insisting that would-be donors set up an account before they can hand over money and then demanding they use PayPal, when the ENTIRE POINT of PayPal is supposed to be that you don’t need to keep setting up accounts everywhere, you bloody idiots.)

Conversely, though, we’d hope that Yes Scotland was well-enough connected that their appeal wouldn’t be allowed to fail for the sake of a few thousand quid. So we’d suggest making any decisions purely on the merits of each in its own right.

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rabb

As above, the problem with the Yes Scotland one is that I am not willing to create an account with their chosen host. At least the indigogo site only requires an email address & a paypal account.
I have donated via their own website and will continue to do so.

G H Graham

The YES campaign lost all sort of perspective by setting up their HQ at a very expensive address in the centre of Glasgow. (136 Hope Street to be precise).

I visited them during what they called Ambassador Training. The building is very nice indeed. It’s obviously prime real estate. It cannot be a cheap place to rent.

Unfortunately the quality of the Ambassador training staff was dire; inarticulate, amateurish, visionless & inept.

Grass roots campaigns are in principle a good thing. However, lavishing money on needlessly expensive offices & then staffing them with clueless people does them no favours at all.

I’ll be voting for independence anyway but the YES campaign will always struggle to convince undecided voters to take the plunge when it can’t get itself in order first.

Starting a nationwide funding campaign 9 days before Xmas during a economic downturn is tactically so stupid, one might wonder what mind altering pills they put in their tea.

Breastplate

Maybe the price of Xmas card + stamp to all 3 could get them over the line.

Mary Bruce

That Bloom site that the Yes campaign are using is utter rubbish. What a palaver. It takes ages to load. When I tried to set up an account I just ended up staring at a page for 10 minutes that said “Account set up. Loading your account” then lots of buffering, then nothing happened. On the third attempt I eventually managed to make a donation, but it was a bit confusing and a right pain.

big_al

I saw that the Yes Scotland fundraiser was stalling somewhat and went to donate this morning but came up against exactly what you describe above.
Having to create an account with Bloom in order to part with my cash.
Put me right off and I didn’t do it 🙁
 
Maybe I’ll try again when I’m less irritated.

Craig P

Regarding Scottish companies, I have had a similar issue with Scottish web providers. It works out so much cheaper to have my sites hosted abroad or in rUK. (I did initially have hosting with one Livingston-based provider, but they were bought over by Webfusion). It’s not a big issue, but it would be nice if Scottish web hosts were competitive. Maybe someone knows of one with good price plans for personal websites?
 
As for online fundraising. Was WoS the first big indy site to do a fundraiser? I was certainly more enthused for the WoS fundraiser than others that have followed, which have felt more like a duty than the original feeling of sticking it to the MSM and empowering our own pro-indy voice that I had with the WoS fundraiser. 
 
I’ve given money in the past to Newsnetscotland and National Collective, but it comes to the point when there are several folk asking for money and you end up just choosing a favourite. Wonder if others feel the same?

Bunter

Now that I’ve cancelled my Herald subs, I’ve just diverted what I would have paid to them over the next twelve months, to Bella and Newsnetscotland. Feeling smug and satisfied.

msean

Interesting that you mention that yes Scotland one,I tried to set up an account,it seemed to be successful,but it didn’t work.If the cause doesn’t get the money if the target isn’t reached,who does?Does that mean that money collected in for a cause in the right spirit could end up going to the company instead?The problem is that if you donate to the website of Yes Scotland,it will as you say,leave the fundraiser  open to attack as unsupported.Indiegogo seems to be the one to use as they will recieve what is raised.

Bugger (the Panda)

A friend of mine is a US citizen and is connected politically in Washington.
She is a member of the SNP and on a visit to Scotland visited 136 Hope Street.
She told me, nice people with no game plan.

X_Sticks

Rabb,
 
You can make a donation here:
 
link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
 
This way allows Paypal and other options. No need to sign upp with Bloom. I didn’t want to sign up to Bloom either. I don’t like sites that demand your mobile number to join.

Amanda Boyle

Thanks for your comments, perhaps a more useful and productive use of the space would be to encourage more people to contribute?

There is no money, only promises and pledges until the target is hit, because we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options. As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.  They’ve served us, and the nearly 300 projects who’ve used the site, well.

So, before taking swipes at an innovative, pioneering startup, perhaps you could find out a little more about why the Scots government isn’t doing More to help, not hinder, us??

Have a happy and generous Christmas
Amanda

Dave Beveridge

You can imagine the fun the MSM will have if Yes Scotland fail to meet their target. Support “collapsing”, “evaporating”, etc.  I’ll stick some cash in later even though I’ve got a DD with them (which was simplicity itself to set up).

Hopefully someone will have a word with them over their procedures. Like others I absolutely hate having to register/sign in or whatever just to spend my cash.

Training Day

It’s all been said above about the palaver needed to get money to Yes.  It’s bloody ridiculous.  Tried to donate £30 3 weeks ago and failed.
 
However, I shall try again today.

Gav

Ok, I dontated to Bella and Yes.  Newsnet already get the equivalent of what I used to spend on the P&J, monthly. That will do them.

Daft to be running fund raisers at the same time,  also conflicting with the charities a lot of people try to support at this time of year and competing with Christmas. What were they thinking?

wee 162

@ G H Graham
 
I understand the point you’re making about the nice office thing, but remember it isn’t just you or me who’s going in to that (or at least I wouldn’t imagine so). That is liable to be where they’re doing some press stuff, holding meetings etc. And doing that in a community centre in Castlemilk is going to give an impression that the campaign is wildly underfunded, isn’t taking it seriously, and is showing no respect to those it is meeting with. Now if it was up to me I’d be saying “tough, deal with it” but that isn’t the way the campaign is being run.
 
You’re spot on about the timing though.
 
Has anyone ever bought a Humble Bundle before? On there you can spend whatever you want and then allocate the money wherever you wish from the designated parties (the publisher of the games you’re getting, a named charity, and the humble bundle people which is referred to as a tip). It occurs to me that a crowd funding model along those lines would be quite a bit better than having three different appeals running at the same time…

Kirriereoch

I´ve donated to two of the campaign but the third one I just gave up. I´d looked and tried a few days ago to donate and gave up and have just tried again, created an account and it´s gone nowhere. 
 
And the one that frustrated me is indeed “Yes Scotland” so I´m in agreement with everyone else´s comments too. I´ll try again later.

Gayle

Is this article and thread meant to be highlighting the YES campaign and news outlet fundraisers or just to moan about them? Seems people have a bit of the Grinch in them today. 

Breastplate

I think whoever was in charge of picking the most user unfriendly site between the three of them should receive a beating with a baseball bat covered in marmite ( I don’t like marmite).

wee 162

@ Gayle 10.13am
 
People are having a bit of a moan because the timing is a bit crap, and one of them is awkward as all hell to donate to. Those are legitimate concerns when people are asking you for money.

G H Graham

To Wee 162,
 
The only folks that can vote next year are residents of Scotland. While it may be nice to have a lavish office for foreign dignitaries to visit, it’s excessively pointless.
 
What really matters, is that ordinary, undecided voters are presented with balanced facts offered from people who can at least articulate in simple, unequivocal language the fundamental benefits of independence.
 
Those arguments can be made in a pub, a supermarket queue or even a brothel.
 
And indeed should be. That’s what grass roots means.  

naebd

It’s always a pain to set up an account, but if a fund-raising website wants to let fundraisers have a relationship with (sorry – bit wanky there – email) their donators then it is one obvious way to support that. If fundraisers want to send items to people then having addresses as part of the platform is also useful. I didn’t actually have any technical difficulties using the site, but did bitch to myself that if one of the main sites had been used then I’d already have an account.

Anyway, it’s maybe 5 minutes of your time. Subtract 1/20*yourhourlyrate from the donation amount.

The issue of the effectiveness of YesScotland is a different one. I also had no problems setting up a DD for Yes Scotland back in the early days when they were an unknown quantity.

richard

I confess to being confused (and a bit irritated) by the site and not sure if I have actually achieved anything. I consider Yes Scotland an important part of getting a result and I am not a rich, white, Tory supporter (although I can confirm that I am male). I will contribute what I can provided it is easy to do so. Probably best to donate again via the website but fairly sure that the No campaign will be ‘dancing in the streets of Raith’ if the crowdfunding doesnt reach its target

big_al

Hold on.
 
If the Yes Scotland target isn’t reached, does that mean those who pledge aren’t debited anything from their accounts?

steve stewart

Another wee donation sent off to YES Scotland.  I didn’t mind setting up an account, it meant I got to waste 5 minutes of work time.  Bonus.  (Just don’t tell the gaffer)

big_al

Having now read through the FAQ that appears to be the case. (My earlier comment)
 

HandandShrimp

I noticed the other day that Better Together is awash with money and that pretty much all of it comes from Tory sources and a hefty amount from prople who don’t actually live in Scotland.
 
They have money but no soul do our Better Together chums. Hopefully that void in their heart will become apparent as both outfits start to hit the airwaves and media in a more overt way.
 
Anybody got any idea what BT spend their money on? It certainly isn’t activists. Admittedly their offices are very fancy. The basement of an office in Hope Street isn’t as des res as Blytheswood Square.

Gayle

@wee
The campaigns have been going for a wee while but were not well publicized. While I understand people grumping about setting up an account to donate regardless of which site or platform people use, all I’m seeing is “don’t donate cause it’s a bit of a fuss.” The fundraisers are for helping the grassroots of Scottish Independence and getting unbiased news out there. Taking a few minutes out to donate is no big deal.

crisiscult

I bought some merchandise from Yes the other day. Does that count towards their donations? Tough time with young family and Christmas just round the corner, but can probably scrape a few pound together for one or two of these sites.
 
As for the card game, looks quite interesting. I bought Lost Cities a couple of weeks ago and my wife and I have played it almost every night since. Highly addictive card game.

chalks

@buggerthepanda
 
I think they have a game plan now : )

Graeme Purves

I got there eventually, but the Bloom site almost seems designed to make it as difficult and off-putting as possible.  This needs sorted!

Craig P

Gayle, you probably already know this, but when you are in business the most valuable thing you can get (except loads of sales!) is honest constructive feedback on your failings from potential customers who are well-disposed towards you. 
 
It might well be that the feedback on this thread is priceless advice for Bloom.
 
big_al – yes, though they will have your contact details…

Ken500

Shame, no tomato soup.

Extreme0

If they wanted to get more donations. Surely it would of been a better idea to wait a month or so after each donation bid rather then having each donation drive for different projects at the same time.

And having donation drives during the time when wallets are going to be crying from the Christmas spirit may also not be a great time to set it up.

Kenny Campbell

“She told me, nice people with no game plan.” I think this reflects perfectly the campaign so far TBH.  I keep waiting for the big counter attack or at least a decent skirmish…..So many gaps in the BT strategy yet the single strategy is we seem to just have a faith in the voters to see through it.
 
I can say for sure of my friends who were intending to vote NO only 1 out of 5 has swung to DK.  My MiL has went from YES to DK due to scare stories.

orkers

Donated £20.14 to ‘Yes’ via Paypal. Took two minutes. No problems observed.

handclapping

I find the Private Eye way where they give you the Sort Code and account number and you just send money best. Much easier and you dont get a badge / car sticker / tour of the office / personalised tweet / name in lights all of which I can do without.

Extreme0

@Kenny Campbell
I think this reflects perfectly the campaign so far TBH.  I keep waiting for the big counter attack or at least a decent skirmish…..So many gaps in the BT strategy yet the single strategy is we seem to just have a faith in the voters to see through it.
 
I can say for sure of my friends who were intending to vote NO only 1 out of 5 has swung to DK.  My MiL has went from YES to DK due to scare stories.
 
I think people need a group that associates with just providing the facts rather then having either a Pro-Indy/Union site or group provide the facts to help voters make the decision.

People want pure unbiased information. I say having a site/group dedicated to just providing the facts to the DKs may not be a bad idea at all. It just needs people who are not biased to the debate to get something like that to work fully.
 

crisiscult

@Kenny Campbell    The only positive seems to be that ‘No’ are even worse than ‘Yes’.
 
 I was talking to a new girl at work who is already a yes, but she’s had nothing from Yes, e.g. leaflets through the door. She wants to volunteer. She just moved into the Shawlands area about a year ago, and doesn’t know where they are or who to contact. I suggested Mhairi Hunter, though not sure that’s correct. Anyway, I asked her if she’d had anything from No and she said No. I’m the same. I’m in east end of Glasgow and I’ve had one leaflet from Yes in the last year, none from No. I’m going out tomorrow to do a spot of leafleting though, so hopefully I won’t be the only one. Perhaps No are relying on the media to do their job for them. Considering a majority of people in Scotland don’t even identify as being British, it seems to be working for them so far. 

orkers

Forgot to mention ………didn’t sign into an account. Just gave the money with no problems.

naebd

handclapping, yesscot need to keep track of where and how much they accept, so that scheme doesn’t fly.

Gayle

@Craig, I hadn’t donated using Bloom before as I usually donate straight to the Yes Scotland site. However, I just went on to see what the fuss was about. It took me less than 2 minutes to set up an account and donate. There were absolutely no problems whatsoever. In fact it was quicker than using kickstarter and I found it to be very user friendly. 

Craig Stewart

Everyone needs to take a step back and chill.

Rev, I can understand your frustration but stroppy sounding responses don’t become you. Take a step back and stick the kettle on.

To the crowd funding site, as Stu said, take heed of the comments on here. It’s invaluable feedback. If people are getting this worked up and not donating stating that the site’s design is the reason, ask for feedback and fix it. Getting all defensive does nobody any good. Maybe set up an email address or Twitter hashtag to allow all the frustrated people here to provide you feedback to allow you to improve the service?
 
Everyone else, let’s all chill out. We’re all on the same team after all.  🙂

Vincent McDee

Amanda, “we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options”, reads like councilspeak and your reaction to the comments here has nothing to do with proper Customer Relations.

Good marketing start by asking your customers what and how they want and satisfying those wishes. They will repeat purchase because they like what and how you are selling.

Besides, you seem not to remember the very first law of sales, the customer is always right.

When criticised, particularly in this case so much constructively, you just don’t tell your customers they don’t know what’s good for them, specially when that is the mode your competition has chosen.

Now, take it like a pro, bit your fingertips and do not type, read, think, consider how can you use the advise and act on it.

Your boss and all of us want you to do the best possible job, there is too much to lose otherwise.

You’re young, you’ll learn and survive.

I’m sending you a cheque.

naebd

vincent, you have a lot to learn about <b>not coming across as a complete <i>pompous ass</i></b>.

Helena Brown

We realise why they are having difficulty, tried just now to pay by PayPal, old version and had to give up. I suggest that they get to grips quickly or we are going to be truly up a creek.

Robert Kerr

My donations in the past
The Misbelievers,
WoS
Yes Scotland club 300
National Collective
Common Weal
 
Now out of cash. I am retired and living of savings basically.
 
I purchase on internet a great deal almost always via paypal. If I can’t use paypal I don’t usually bother and find another vendor.
 
Next year I shall invest man-hours not cash for the Cause.
 
Maybe WoS though. Oh yes certainly WoS

A2

Actuallty Gail  yes it is a big deal, IT and web projects fail on there lack of user friendliness and that’s the problem here. I take it from your posts that you are quite unfamiliar with wings, we are perfectly aware what the fundraiser are for. 

Where you are seeing “don’t donate cause it’s a bit of a fuss.” I’m seeing “I tried it was bloody difficult, and it asked for information I’m not prepared to give out” several people have stated they will try again or donate via different routes. Maybe you need to look again.

There are a number of Scottish usability consultants who might have been asked to run an eye across these products, no doubt the back end is brilliant but if you put a rolls engine in a car, you don’t make the on button difficult to find.

Anon Sailor

The Yes Campaign needs a kick up the arse! Still waiting for answers from them ten months later. We should put our Rev. in charge of the campaign for independence.
All those who agree say, aye.

mogabee

Regarding Yes donating, I’m not sure how to proceed from setting up acc. I don’t have mobile so used house no and that seems ok but where do I go from there? Help!

kendomacaroonbar

Reminds me of the old peom along the lines of ” for the want of a nail ” and suggest we all start pointing our guns over the barricade instead of those who are trying to man it.

rabb

G H Graham says:

To Wee 162,
 
While it may be nice to have a lavish office for foreign dignitaries to visit, it’s excessively pointless.
 
Indeed. Perhaps a wee unit in Easterhouse or Shettleston or even Thornliebank (possibly all 3 given the price of city centre realestate!) would have made more sense what with them being right at the heart of the communities that will make this happen?
 
That said, I’m not on here to slag off the Yes campaign. It is what it is. I just won’t be signing up for any more fecking accounts. I’ll continue to donate via the main yes site.

Craig P

Gayle, I wondered what the fuss was all about and went to the link at the top of this post to Yes Scotland and donated myself! Didn’t take long, they did ask for name, address, phone number, email, as mandatory fields, though easy enough to put fakes if desired. I was then directed to a paypal page and as I have a paypal account already, completion required just one more click.
 
It was only when I clicked the back button that I realised I hadn’t ‘pledged’ at all, but clicked a link on the Bloom page to Yes Scotland, and from there donated directly via paypal… 

A2

“It took me less than 2 minutes to set up an account and donate”

If I don’t want to set up an account AT All it doesn’t matter how long it takes, I use Pay Pal for a reason.

People on here are falling over themselves to donate but there are unnecessary obstacles. 

Dcanmore

Yeah, I was put off contributing because you have to set up an account beforehand, I much prefer Indiegogo. I really have to question YES Scotland for starting a fundraising campaign so close to Christmas (and the others too), I’ve worked with many marketing and PR people in my time and enthusiasm, instead of practical thought, usually gets the better of them. Also there is complacency, how often have I been made aware of the ‘300’ fundraiser from YES… once when it started then nothing. YES have to come up with new ways of getting their message out to the public, awareness is everything.

Weedeochandorris

Just made my donation using the link from X Sticks above.  Simple, straightforward and easy to use, no need to set up an account. Thank you X Sticks.  Here’s wishing Yes Scotland all the best for achieving their target. Would be a great Christmas present to see the sneer wiped of BT’S mugs!  Giant smiley.

Anon Sailor

Bella & Newsnet were simple enough to be fair but the Yes Scotland requiring a Bloom account is ridiculous, no way am I filling out mobile phone number etc. In an age where we need to protect our data we should be more careful.

OT but the ScotGov app for information has unnecessary permissions that snoops on your other apps and web traffic. I removed them using a permission editor but the app crashed.

Tattie-bogle

I don’t know too much about this kind of thing but is it not a case of trying to be above board and beyond scrutiny. you guys would know more about it than me . we cant have AD saying Mugabe set up  a fake paypal and donated. like I said you guys will know more than I would

Grant_M

Finally managed to donate to Yes Scotland through that fundraiser, but they don’t make it Blooming easy.

On registering, they insisted on having my mobile number, which I wasn’t prepared to give them, so I just entered an obvious invalid number.

After creating an account, I still couldn’t go ahead and make a “promise” because the email address I signed up with was a different one from my PayPal one.

Thankfully, got there in the end.

It’s all the fault of the Scots government. Apparently.

Dcanmore

The recent load of cash from Tory donors received by BT is probably the result of Alistair Darling whoring himself around the dinner tables of Surrey.

Vincent McDee

And there was me thinking nothing ever surprise me anymore.
 
MPs will take compulsory ‘honesty training’ to learn the difference between right and wrong

Seminars will address accepting gifts and lobbying for outside interests
Watchdog chairman Lord Bew says gut instinct is no longer acceptable
The courses will be modelled on those taken by bankers and lawyers

Read more: link to dailymail.co.uk

Donald Kerr

People at Yes Scotland better start getting a thicker skin. You’re getting constructive critisism here so heed it. I’ve been on that Yes donate site 3 times and gave up on all occasions. I am not going to create an account and give some other company my life story. 
 
I have donated to all 3 sites but I have reservations about News net and Bella asking fro 40k. It’s a lot if dosh.
 
I have loss more to say but it’s not for a public forum. You know where I am. All constructive!

a supporter

we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options”,

What does it mean?

sneddon

I don’t see why they need my contact details and FB stuff.  I am not happy doing this so not donating via this methoid. Prefer to do it via main YES site. When I buy a Big Issue the guy  selling me it doesn’t ask me for personal details.   I think the site chosen was designed by inexperienced designers with no grasp of customers or data protection principles especially in relation to what data is REALLY needed to undertake the purpose of transaction.

balgayboy

It is pretty decent of WOS to help out with highlighting these donation requests and the critique of the timing and the setting up of an account is reasonable.
 
I have donated to all these mentioned and more and I follow the donation/promise progress and they are certainly struggling to meet the targets.
 
I would reckon most donaters prefer the straightforward paypal means.

Gayle

@A2 I am very familiar with Wings since I am a regular on here and follow Wings on Twitter. I usually agree with most of what is said but on this I don’t. I stand by what I said as that is how it reads to me. 

@Mogabee once you’ve set up your account type into the box at the top “Scottish Independence” and it’ll bring it up. Then put in your amount, click on one of the promises and click at the bottom of the page. (Sorry if someone has already answered you. I’m a slow typer.)

@Anon You might get a quicker response if you DM Blair on Twitter or something. It seems a tad long to wait for answers.

handclapping

naebd is right; Yes Scotland has to make sure that any donation of £500 or more is from a UK elector or company, etc so they need to take name and address but they could make it easier for us poor herberts who aren’t into the world of high finance

Bella and Newsnet dont have that need

Weedeochandorris

Here’s the link again. Sorry, should’ve included it.  Took 2 mins to do, simple.  link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com

Old Dotch

I thought I’d have a go at donating to the Yes campaign.  After the page (eventually) loaded, I hunted for a “Donate” button.  I couldn’t find it, so I assumed that I had to click on the link marked “visit project website”.  This took me to the Yes Scotland website where there is the opportunity to donate (it has a huge button marked “donate”).  Back at the Bloom site, I worked out that the “Make promise” button is what I should be pressing.  I have no idea why I should press a button to make a promise when what I wanted to do was make a donation. 

Anyway, then I found myself confronted with having to create an account – I don’t know anyone who likes doing this – but I did it anyway.  After account created (where I couldn’t leave the mobile phone field blank – do you think I’m nuts? TIP: it accepts 00000000000, not actually my real number) I tried to donate to be told that before I do I would have to link my paypal account to the Bloom site. 

The upshot of all of which is I have wasted 15 minutes of my morning and the campaign still don’t have my donation, or indeed promise.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

TJenny

Just tried to donate to YES Scotland’s fund. Created a new account, got as far as message, ‘Please wait until we log you into your account’ – then nothing. No buffering, nothing. Tried to then use the log in to account – and got message ‘unable to log you in as you don’t have an account!’
 
Might just give YESScot a ring to see if they can transfer payt into fund, otherwise, if it’s not via the fund, presumably it doesn’t count towards the target.

FreddieThreepwood

Sorry Rev,
 
Tried my best but ten minutes of faffing about with a donation that became a ‘promise’, opening an account on Bloom only to be directed to PayPal (for which I already have an account) meaning I had to change the email address, followed by the apparent disappearance of my donation … then getting an email asking me to ‘subscribe to a list’ whatever the fuck that means and I have given up. Maybe Yes Scotland has my money, I have no idea.
Be assured I have written to both Yes and Bloom to express my displeasure. I’ve also asked them exactly what they have against the English language. Are we practising a new slightly altered version for use in an independent Scotland?

wee 162

@ G H Graham 10.19am
I get all that. The point is that not spending money on offices doesn’t mean that everyone automatically gets better at communicating the message. The narrative in the media without the office would absolutely be “tinpot operation” “floundering campaign with a poky office” etc etc. It’s entirely possible to communicate clearly from pretty much anywhere (within reason) and it’s not the office space that is the issue.
 
If the communications are bad (and they’re a bit vanilla for me fwiw) then that should be addressed. But it’s not spending money on reasonable office accomodation which is causing it to be bad.

A2

“I noticed the other day that Better Together is awash with money and that pretty much all of it comes from Tory sources and a hefty amount from prople who don’t actually live in Scotland.”

Yet Naughty Blair is still sending out messages asking for donations stating how well funded the yes campaign is.  The one good thing is that if he starts carping about yes not making funding targets he’ll obviously be contradicting himself publicly.

haartime

Gayle, Amanda
I am particularly miffed by Bloom. I have used 3 different email addresses and two different computers to set up an account and none allow me to login. I do not have any more emails to try. The whole experience of using Bloom has been one of frustration and aggravation, wasted time and effort and I really do want to donate to the campaign.

Please do take notice of all the feedback on this comment thread. Politically it is important for YesScotland to do well in public campaigns. By using your platform they have failed. You have to take some responsibility for this.

Like other people on this thread I want the donation process to be as easy possible and to just click a button that says PayPal. I do not like setting up accounts for a one use but I was willing to do it.

I am not person who would normally complain about poor customer service, accepting that people and things don’t always work as well they ought. But this is important to the independence movement and I am afraid you have let us and YesScotland down very badly.

yerkitbreeks

I’m not enjoying this – think I’ll give it all a break for a few days

desimond

@crisiscuit
Regards Shawlands Campaigning 

There is the YES Cathcart group which covers around that area…meets over at Battlefield Rest next to Victoria Infirmary for Sunday leafletting?

Contact Kirsty MacAlpine, Secretary – Cathcart SNP on rapportmail+29173@snp.org

Anon Sailor

Gayle, I’ve asked both Blair McDougal and Alistair Carmichael for a live debate with a War Vet, I assume by their silence for weeks now that they’re afraid. Back on topic – anyone tried Bitcoin? Its fast,easy and #anonymous

ronnie anderson

Well that lot of posts this morning puts a different slant on the DOUR MEAN POOR SCOTS ,Canna gie oor money away easily FFS, where theres a will theres a way, where theres a hill theres a brae, Git fkin er it, WE RE AWE IN IT THEGITHER, COFFEE,S all roon nae umpire bisquits

handclapping

OT
Lets celebrate when things go right. My “Scotland’s Future” has arrived. My name was wrong, the address was wrong, the Post Code was wrong and my postie is Polish. Well done the low tech, people centred Royal Mail

A2

Craig P says:
Regarding Scottish companies, I have had a similar issue with Scottish web providers. It works out so much cheaper to have my sites hosted abroad or in rUK. (I did initially have hosting with one Livingston-based provider, but they were bought over by Webfusion).”

Who subsequently got taken over by Heart and what a pita it is given that they lock ftp based on Ip address which BT love to change at random times. humph… 

at least there support people are more helpful than xcalibre’s were.

Scots Renewables

I set up a Bloom account, went to pledge and was told I had to go back to put in my official paypal address (even though that wasn’t on the original sign up screen)

Having done that there was no route back to the pledge page and searching for YES Scotland did not bring it up. I had to come all the way back here for the link.

When I pledged I was taken to PayPal where it said

<b>Maximum number of payments: 2</b>

wtf . . . I pledged one pledge, not two. I cancelled. I will buy some more merchandise if I want to contribute.

I pay and donate online all the time using all sorts of sites and systems and this is definitely one of the WORST I have ever come across. If YES don’t have the gumption to take note of this and set something better up then hell mend them. It might be OK for large donations, but if you want to throw tenor twenty quid into the bucket then this is totally inappropriate.

Albert Herring

Sorry, but we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the wallet gateway options.

wee 162

@Gayle 10:34am
It’s a week before Christmas. People are busy. And it might take you a couple of minutes, but not everyone is entirely au fait with setting up stuff online. A lot of folk are a bit suspect about giving every single bit of their life history online (a justifiable response to the news re data privacy and its abuses over the last few years). You make it as easy as possible. You give people as much control over where their money is going as possible whilst still fulfilling the aims of the fundraising.
 
People need to remember these things are about a collective of diverse  people, not just themselves. Folk on here are engaged with the debate as can be seen by the fact they’re already on here. Folk on here are au fait with at least a bit of the internet (as evidenced once again by the fact that they’re on here). Folk on here are much much more likely to be donating to these things than the general public (see the previous fundraising by the rev). If there’s resistance to it here (and I’m not sure it’s resistance so much as thinking it’s a pain in the hole) then what do you think happens with the general public.
 
Put it this way, I’ve gave up on doing something online at various points due to not wanting to spend my life filling in forms. I’m a season ticket holder at Easter Road but only registered for their online account (which had been running for at least 6 years) last season because I needed to do something quickly and couldn’t get through on the phone and couldn’t just pop round to the ticket office which is a 10 minute walk from my house at that point. That wasn’t due to me developing neo-ludditeism it was due to their system being crap and me not bothering to try and sign up for it having failed to do so twice about 6 years beforehand…
 
Make it as easy as possible. Or you lose money you could have got. The likes of Amazon do one-click ordering because they know that every additional press of a button means they lose sales.

mogabee

Thanks Gayle. Tried to do as you suggest but not getting redirected. Nowhere to put any amount 🙁
Given up at the moment, will try later.

balgayboy

anyone tried Bitcoin?
Sounds to close to BTcoin!

Doug Daniel

That’s weird, I remember being put off donating to the Yes Scotland one originally because it was asking for too much information. However, I’ve just tried again, and it’s worked. Hmmm.
 
Right, I’m going to sound like an arsehole here, but I think this needs to be said. My main problem is that people are getting a bit unrealistic about how much money can be raised through these fundraisers. These three together add up to almost £100,000 being asked of independence supporters in the run up to Christmas – that’s just daft.
 
The ease in which some of the earlier fundraisers reached their targets has clearly set people’s expectations too high, and also made people think “online fundraiser = easy money”. People need to remind themselves of the story of the goose that laid golden eggs. It should have been blatantly obvious to everyone from the way the Scotland Yet and Common Weal fundraisers practically hobbled over the line that we were getting to the limit of how much could be raised through online fundraisers – and those were two of the most vital projects connected to the independence campaign. And yet, just as we’re getting to that limit, we have three campaigns trying to get a total of £95,000 – utter madness.
 
Stu’s fundraiser was clear – we were paying for a journalist to make the site his full-time job for a year. That justified the size of the fundraiser – it was a man’s salary for a year. Subsequent WOS fundraisers have similarly been quite clear about why a certain amount of money was being asked for.
 
I’m not sure why £40,000 is the amount being asked for in the above fundraisers. There’s no justification for £40,000 rather than £30,000 or £20,000. Newsnet’s one is particularly problematic here – it would have been fairly straight-forward to use examples to justify the £40,000, such as the cost of producing the leaflets mentioned, how much they need to commission work from professionals (and perhaps an idea of whom these professionals are), and how much the videos cost to make.
 
Perhaps the biggest problem is it’s unclear if the £40,000 is intended to fund the Duggy Dug films, or if they will continue to be funded through individual fundraisers. I think the Duggy Dug thing is well-meant but ultimately an expensive mistake – children can’t vote, and adults aren’t going to be convinced by a cartoon dog. I’m not prepared to fund that pish. And the other examples of films I’ve seen from Newsnet are not the kind of thing I would be sharing to convince people to vote Yes.
 
It would be nice if the three campaigns didn’t fail, but it might be the only way to get people to take a step back and think “hold on, we can’t just keep setting up fundraisers willy-nilly.”

(And if Yes Scotland are going to start setting up fundraisers, I’ll just go and cancel my monthly £100 direct debit.)

Scots Renewables

As someone else has pointed out, these are all net-savvy people on here desperate to contribute, and it looks as though over 50% of them are failing or giving up.
 
YES really do need to take this on board and do something about it ASAP instead of getting all precious because we are all on the same side. I am not suggesting that YES need a Malcolm Tucker, but any and all of us who are working away to achieve a YES vote next year need to be prepared to take some criticism if there is any  way we could do things better.

FreddieThreepwood

I’ve just been told that my donation – sorry, promise – has probably failed. No idea why but apparently, for a wee while at least, I was ‘part of the Bloom community’.

I am about to throw this computer at the wall and perhaps use a warm word or two. I’ll be back in touch once I’ve bought a new laptop. Cheerio.

Douglas Guy

Craig Stewart says: 

Everyone needs to take a step back and chill.
 
This is the internet, dood.  If we want to get heated about annoying pish we will and there isn’t anything you can do to stop us. The official Yes campaign so far is clueless and if you don’t like to hear that, skip to the next comment. The amateurism on our side is what is most likely to lose this for us. After the EU elections we are going to get worked over by professional media management funded by those millions. If this was a level playing field we’d win by a mile.  But if this was a level playing field most of us wouldn’t be so keen on independence in the first place.  

John Gibson

we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options

Agree with ‘a supporter’ above, please spare us from this sort of management-speak gobbledegook.

Gary Hunter

Rev Stu
It might be politic to remote Gordon Baxters image. He died earlier this Year. His daughter now runs the firm and has given support to the SNP.

link to newsnetscotland.com

scotchwoman

Ideal or not, YES needs support. Just donated and it was no more annoying than having to create a BBC account to vote for Andy Murray last night.

ronnie anderson

Mc Ternan on daily politics bbc 2

Gayle

@Haartime, it’s not my platform. I’m just a regular person who used it to donate to YES Scotland. Not sure why you had the problems logging in as it should have taken your paypal email (assuming you have one) without any fuss.

Alan Mackintosh

I cant help but feel that the bloom approach is wrong for this fundraising. I had a look round it and it has the premise that only if the total amount is reached will the monies be collected and passed on. The reasoning for this is so that projects wont be half funded and thereby doomed to fail. But Yes Scotland is an existing project and is not reliant upon the total being reached before starting. Should the target not be reached then none of the funds promised will be transferred which seems daft. Then they would have to start all over again. Far better to get the money straight away than rely on a trigger point being reached. Suppose they fail on 14.9K, everybody who has promised will have to do the whole thng again. Much easier to have a link to a direct paypal thingy

Scots Renewables

@scotchwoman
Glad you were able to contribute. However, I feel you are missing the point a bit.

As others have pointed out, it is very wellevidenced that on the web every extra click or box to fill in  loses you another chunk of purchasers/donors.

I assume YES Scotland are trying to get donations from as many people as possible, not just the diehards who will spend as long as it takes to get through the cyber-b/s. In which case they should be grateful for the feedback.

If YES Scotland are listening – something I do worry about – then this could be one of the most helpful comment threads on here for a while.

wee 162

@ Doug Daniel 11:47
 
Aye, tell people what exactly they are getting for their money. If they like it enough they’ll fund it. If they don’t, then perhaps you need to look at what you’re attempting to fund if you can’t even persuade those who agree with you in principle to spend the money to do so… You know like the Rev does on here and is wildly successful with… You engage people, you are raising money to do something worthwhile, you’re transparent, and you make it easy for people to give you money.

handclapping

I think the Rev may be being a bit harsh on Yes Scotland. It seems as if they cannot prove that £500 or more came from an elector they have to hand it back so making it a pledge so they can check first is probably a good idea.
 
What is interesting is that as far as I can see if they got the traditional Glasgow brown envelope with £1000 in it the money would end up in the coffers of the Electoral Commission!

Murray McCallum

I managed to make a promise on the Yes Scotland via Bloom fundraiser. I was originally put off by the steps to create two accounts. However, it did only take a few minutes (and I am pretty hopeless on websites and seemed to go round in a circle a few times – but it is worth it).
 
I will not have moved to Scotland in time for the referendum so donations, encouragement, complaints to media, etc are about it for me. I think the grass roots community programme will be vital in 2014, especially if they now arm themselves with simple bullet points from ‘Scotland’s Future’.

haartime

Gayle
 
Never ever got to a PayPal screen. 3 different browsers used as well as the email accounts and computers. It just hangs at the login in to your account after registering. From sounds of other people’s experiences it maybe because I did not enter a telephone number but none of the fields said they were compulsory to fill in and I will not enter a phone number for no apparent reason.

Sorry if I misunderstood your position but sounded as though you well from Yes Scotland. Have tweeted my experience to them and filled the contact form on Bloom. Seemed to hit an announced word limit there too. More frustration.

Admirable that Yes Scotland want to support a Scottish business but the thing has to work. I am also a savvyish internet user and it makes me feel pretty stupid when I can’t get things to work and basically it isn’t my fault.

scotchwoman

@ Scots Renewables
Agree with all that but we are where we are on this fundraiser and it needs to hit the target. That whole BT funding story was designed to undermine YES by suggesting the establishment is fully in control and that resistance is futile. If we can’t raise £15k we really are stuffed.
 
Lessons need to be learned – after the target is reached.

dan777a

was able to donate but it wasn’t ideal. Too much back and forth between them and paypal plus setting up an account required way too much personal info. I normally i don’t like to give too much information about myself  to anyone online but made an exception with this as its for independence.

not sure i’ll be able to donate to either Bella or Newsnet but made yes my priority.

Agree with Doug about the Duggy Dug being a load of cringe worthy pish. It has kind of put me off donating to Newsnet so Bella will probably get the cash if i can rustle any up from behind the back of the sofa!

TJenny

OK – ’cause of probs with Bloom, just made a payt of £30 to YES Scotand via Paypal.
 
As this payt didn’t go via Bloom directly into the fund, is there any YESScot folk reading this that can confirm whether it will be included in the fund total?  Otherwise, fund could show underfunding, but actual funding for YES increased, but outwith the ‘fund’ total.

GP Walrus

Long term we really need a robust, integrated subscription platform for a free press. However, I support the donate-some-amount-to-something-you-value-despite-the-difficulty line.

Breastplate

I can’t donate on the Bloom page to Yes Scotland because apparently my email address is in the wrong format, it is not. The other 2 were perfectly easy to donate to.

The process has left me more than frustrated and the Yes fundraiser out of pocket. I have no idea how that can be considered good enough.

I see these monies as less of a donation and more of an investment in my country, we really shouldn’t have a hassle doing it.

squarego

Every customer complaint or criticism is a valuable opportunity to make an improvement. I would hope that these perfectly valid points above would be taken on board. Everybody on this site has given and will continue to give time and money to the cause. All we ask is that you allow us to do so in the most straightforward way. 

Morag

At the very start of all this I set up a monthly standing order to the SNP specifically for the referendum campaign.  When Yes Scotland was launched I matched that, setting up the identical amount to that organisation as well.  Each time I figured out how much I would end up donating by the time of the referendum and it came to quite a respectable sum.
 
I decided to do it that way so that it was in my monthly budget and to save me having to consider each and every fundraising initiative as it was launched.  So sorry but that’s it.  I want this to succeed as much as anyone, but I budgeted a substantial sum of money right at the start.  Yes Scotland is getting that, every month, right on time.  It’s not my problem if someone decided they wanted to set up a completely different fund with its own target, and potentially create a rod for their own backs.
 
Call my regular contributions in the relevant month or months part of the appeal.  That’s why I did it.  If you can’t do that, don’t come whining to me for more money.  Especially not when you still want me to pay for pens and badges and car stickers.

pa_broon74

What everyone else has said.
 
Bit of a faff and this pre-approval of donations via Paypal is not on at all, it says its limited to 2 donations to Bloom VC, what’s that all about? I only want to make one.
 
Signed up (their server is quite slow.) The problem seems to be, you fill out all the boxes (which as mentioned, is a pain) but it doesn’t ask for a Paypal email – its only when you go to pledge, an error message appears at the bottom of that page, the only remedy takes you away from the Yes Scotland campaign page then leads you on a wild goose chase around what seems to be an internet version of one of those multi-option phone systems. (Obvious fix, add the ‘add paypal email address’ step into the initial sign up process.)
 
I donated £5 – or £10 if they take advantage of the two payments I was made to pre-approve. More angry about that than anything else, it’s just taking the piss.

Alan Mackintosh

Just had a look at the yes scotland website and you can use payapl on there, as well as other things. I noticed they have conditions such as;

“If you are not on an Electoral Register in Scotland we will not be able to accept more than £500 in total from you.

– If you donate more than £7,500 in a year, your name and the total amount of your donation/s will need to be made public.”

I presume the reason for the first condition is to avoid undue influence from outwith the country. How does this relate to BT donations? given the last couple of days with the huge donations from the tory types?

wee 162

@Alan Mackintosh
The point of setting the limit is twofold in kickstarter projects which is what this sort of funding is like. As you say there tends to be an amount needed to create something concrete, but just relying on general donations doesn’t enage people as much as “reach the target or we don’t get anything and it stops”. It works brilliantly for savvy PR game designers with concepts etc (as it has with the Rev for his commissioning of polling). For amorphous stuff like the Yes campaign is doing “for community yes campaigns” I don’t think it is particularly useful tbh.

Bob the Dug

@Amanda said “As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.  They’ve served us, and the nearly 300 projects who’ve used the site, well.”

BUT, they have not served me well – after three attempts to donate via this Bloom lot, I have given up. Thanks to the people who decided on this method of donating, Yes Scotland shall no longer be receiving my donation, instead I have given the funds to those who have made it easy for me to donate.

Heads should roll for this fiasco!

Jingly Jangly

My copy of Scotland’s Future just arrived, just as well I finished a Harry Potter book last night!!!! That’s me ten years behind on my book reading bought that book in 2003 ,hopefully I will have made my way through Scotland’s future before Sept 14.

Charles Docherty

I only donate by sending a cheque.  I will not set up an online account.

pa_broon74

PS: If get one single text message or phone call on my mobile as a result of providing it to Bloom VC, I’ll be exceptionally miffed.
 
Totally fucking sick of answering calls featuring a recorded message or some poor call centre soul offering to reclaim any PPI I may have had when my religion forbids me from having credit.*
 
* I don’t have a religion as such, but it gets them off the phone very quickly – especially if you go on to try and convert them.

squarego

Also, if anyone from Yes Scotland is reading this page, I have on three occasions offered the voluntary services of two qualified, professional writers (one a former press officer with an international charity) to help with your poorly written, poorly edited website. No response to date. There is an army of people willing and able to take this campaign forward, don’t ignore us. We’d rather do this with you.

pa_broon74

One other thing about the Bloom VC site, you can’t unsubscribe from their mailing list, you can untick the box but it doesn’t save the preference, if you refresh or revisit the page, the box comes back ticked.
 
Not good at all, more crap for the junk email folder.

HandandShrimp

Alan
 
Better Together know that if they were to limit their funding to Scotland for donations over £500 they would be meeting in a garden shed in Possil. Without Tory money there would be no Better Together. Darling and Co are bought and sold for Tory gold.   

pa_broon74

Sorry, last message on this…
 
Two things, first – in the privacy policy, it says users are responsible for specifying whether or not personal details can be passed on by Bloom to ‘others’ – yet – there doesn’t seem to be anything any where to make that specification.
 
Secondly, if you change your mind and want to cancel the pledge you’ve made, you have to click a button (via ‘my promises’ link) labelled “Break Promise.”
 
Its a pain to sign up, a pain to donate and if you change your mind you’re labelled dishonest.
 
Harsh, very harsh.
 
😉

AnneDon

The Bloom site is awful. I wanted to donate today because I have money today – my employment isn’t regular enough for me to donate in advance!
 
I went to the Yes site and donated there instead.
 
Yes should have used indiegogo like everyone else – we can hand over the money, and they receive it! Bloom even demanded a mobile number from me!

Charles Docherty

Also – too many people want my money!!!

Yes Scotland is the official YES organisation so in my mind is the most needed.  

They need my dosh to produce the campaigning literature/goods for all the volunteers to distribute.  There again I have my local SNP Branch needing donations to actually purchase the Yes Scotland literature/goods and also the SNP HQ {they also want my money}literature.  Also locally is the Yes Scotland groups needing assistance too,

Then we have the multitude of internet pro indy sites seeking donations to help them continue. But in my opinion the internet sites whilst very good for committed activists they do not have much in the way of traffic from the Don’t Knows and antis.

This is why I concentrate on donating to getting the literature to get delivered/handed out to the general public who we have to convert.

Sorry for my long rant.

X_Sticks

I’d just like to say thank you to Rev Stu. You have to be respected for trying to help other pro-independence sites in their fund raising. Kudos to you sir, <doffing hat and smiley thingy>.
 
To all those who have had difficulty in donating to Yes Scotland I’d just like you to remember this:
 
link to educationscotland.gov.uk
 
Life isn’t always easy. Often the best things that come to us are those we have had to fight for. Independence is one of those things. A little bit of online hassle shouldn’t be enough to put any of us off. You can donate to Yes Scotland easily here:
 
link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
 
🙂

AnneDon

Re the comment about the nice office – remember, although the MSM in this country ignore Yes, there are journalists, tv news companies, and radio journalists from all over the world knocking on their door. They need to be somewhere central and respectable!
 
When I was there earlier this year, though, Glasgow Council won’t let them put up a sign to say who they are. Don’t know if that’s changed yet. Whodathunkit?

Les Wilson

Guys let us just do what we can do, if it takes a few minutes of your time, what does it matter. Let us just get our donations, whatever they are, to wherever we are sending them. They all need our support so let us wipe the grin from the face of BT. 
Of course the more user friendly the better and easier to it will be to donate, but let us do it now and I am sure someone will take heed, given the concerns that our comments have expressed.
Rev, sympathies, damned if you do, damned if you don’t !

Chickenhawk 2

As others have said, making, or trying to make a donation to Bloom/Yes was a real pain in the ar**.
I tried initially, looking at what was on screen and gave up. Later, tried again, details, back to where I started, once again,  get to paypal, and as Scots Renewables said @ 16 December, 2013 at 11:43 am, max. no.of payments, 2. WTF. Go to paypal account to check if there are 2 payments set up. Zilch.
Back to Bloom and the whole rigmarole again. Damned near gave up. So now we have to wait to see if it makes it’s target, and it don’t look good.
Re the Yes premises, I was in talking to one of the guys a few weeks ago, turned out he was taking a year off uni for this. But he was just a more educated me. What I did notice was the Great and Good coming in, down the ramp and being swept into the inner sanctum. Door locked behind them. No hoi poloi for them. That is how it felt to me. But I may have an inferiority complex.
Newsnet, they want your money, but are pretty sniffy about who can post after an article. Damned few, I’m not saying I’m R L Stevenson, but when OBE gets a look-in, Jesus Christ. It’s making me think twice about giving, or is that petty. that’ll be an Aye then, probably.
 

gardennat

I delivered 200 newspapers this morning(starting at 7.30)because for some reason it gives me a boost and puts me in a good mood for the rest of the day.Came home and started to read WoS while having my breakfast. I have already given to the Newsnet appeal but I had forgotten about the YES one. I have tried to donate this morning but have only succeeded in registering with the site. I have given out details I didn’t particularly want to share, and all to no avail.How much money must YES have lost through this fiasco.
My mood is now far from placid and I suppose the only way I can lift it again is by delivering some more papers this afternoon.
 

Neil MacKenzie

£30 paid to Yes via Bloom despite needing to register. Bella & NNS will receive all monies paid so I’ll donate to them after New Year.
 

TJenny

Rev – thanks for confirming that my donation wont go into the crowdfund.
 
I’ve sent YESScotland an email asking if there is any way that my payment can be transferred by them into fund. Mentioned this article and probs folk have encountered trying to use Bloom and why not just use Paypal, and that whilst they may see a wee surge in their donations, they wont be accruing to the crowdfund.  Will wait and see if/what YESScotland reply.

Taranaich

I’d like to share a story with you all, if you’ll indulge me: it’s related to the post, but the talk of how money is tight has hit a nerve of sorts.
 
My wee niece was in a local school/church choir concert, held at a local church. It’s been a while since I went to church  (though I have special dispensation from the monsignor, I guess I’m holy enough to formulate a sort of “church bubble” around myself), but I went to support my niece and family. We all had a lovely time playing heads shoulders knees & toes as we variously knelt, sat and stood according to the liturgical calendar, and it was nice and warm. But at the end, the canon announced that there would be a collection for the local food bank.
 
My heart absolutely sank. See, I despise the very idea of food banks. Not because of the charity, of course, but because I firmly believe it feeds into the sinister neo-Victorian agenda of the Tories – “the poor are too stupid or feckless to spend their money on food, so they’ll jolly well take what they’re given, the sods.” It’s demeaning, and I refuse to participate in it. Yet faced with going out the door as people are putting so much money in – I saw several tenners, and this wasn’t a particularly affluent part of Scotland – I was momentarily stricken with guilt. I’d read up on food banks, I’d seen pictures, I’d seen people collecting up at Glasgow and Edinburgh – but it’s something else to realise that your home, the place where you live, is just as stricken. The last time I felt such a shudder was seeing a picture of my town during World War II, taken from across the Clyde. It was engulfed in flames – the entire town was a bonfire. My family and people I knew lived there, in that raging inferno. And now my family and people I know live in a town that needs a food bank.
 
I’m not rich myself, but I always took great pride in never finding myself in debt, though it took a great deal of work and commitment to ensure that. I wanted to make sure that, if nothing else, I had a few hundred pounds available for emergencies at all times. My family and friends already have incredible financial strain pressed upon them by the evil legislation of both Conservative and New Labour governments, and from a young age, I was determined to make sure they wouldn’t worry about me.
 
Turns out, I’ve gotten myself into a pickle. As I said, I’m very frugal and careful with money, but I made an obscenely expensive purchase as a future investment: since I plan on becoming a full-time artist, I decided to upgrade my computer. Unfortunately, this coincided with several health concerns and new legal issues (benefits have been slashed left and right), so I found myself running out of money extremely quickly. I’m still in the black, but I’ve found I simply cannot afford several things which I had done every year. I can’t get the Christmas presents the children in my family want (none of us can, especially given PS4 games are £60 ferchrissakes), I might not be able to afford several things even in the coming year. And at the same time, I’ve become hugely involved in the independence movement, and donated several times to several causes in person (I don’t have PayPal due to issues with the scoundrels at RBS even though I left them several years ago). Every time I’m out in the town, I make sure I have some change just to drop into collection buckets – to ensure that some money is going there, no matter how little.
 
So, back to the collection plate. I’d always complained about the likes of Douglas Alexander’s “solidarity,” where they extol the virtues of doing good while not promising, let alone making, any practical changes for the better. Was I falling victim to that? Is my hatred of the nature and causes of food banks any better than voting No because I’d rather try and save the people of England too? At the end of it all, I didn’t put any money in the tin. What I did do was carry on as usual: giving money to the registered charities, doing voluntary work, and spreading the word of Yes.
 
At the end of the day, food banks are treating the symptoms rather than the cause: as long as the Neo-Liberal Triumverate crack down on welfare, people will be going to food banks. I’m not going to pour my money away putting a bucket under a leak in the dam: I’m going to save up for cement. Others have the generosity and means to give to food banks, and I appreciate the gesture of charity. But at the end of the day, I just feel it’s continuing to enable the Neo-Liberals. They thrive on this, they rely on the charity of the lower classes to look after each other, so that they don’t have to worry about losing any of their precious capital, no matter how little of their money would make such a great difference. They’re using basic human decency – altruism and charity – as a weapon against us, as a means to prop up their neofeudal society. I’m not playing the game. I help the needy my way, in a way that doesn’t play into perpetuating a despicable stereotype, in a way that’s meaningful.
 
So the question is, what can I do? It tears me up that I cannot give money to Wings, Bella, Newsnet and other places, as much due to bureaucratic nonsense as to lack of funds. I try to bring up these sites in personal conversation every chance I get, but it isn’t as good as hard cash. But what I can do is join their cause. So all my money, time and energy has gone into Bannockburn, because comics is what I’m good at, and it’s the way I can make my voice heard. Just a few weeks ago, I had my first stall at a local market, where I sold some of my work. I proved to myself I could do it. And Bannockburn is about more than just the current movement for independence, but my feelings on socialism, the responsibility of the strong to aid the vulnerable, the sovereignty of the people, and whatnot. It applies equally to the UK as it does to Scotland: it just so happens independence is the route I believe to be the best in order to reach that goal.
 
Anyway, hope I didn’t bore or annoy you all. Rev, I have zero problems with you posting links to collections, as it is a reminder of why we fight. The reason Newsnet, Bella etc need donations is precisely because our country’s twisted economy makes it necessary to rely on the charity of those who are is just as much of a mess as we are.
 
As you said on Twitter, this is why we fight.

Ian Brotherhood

@Taranaich –
 
Great comment, should be made into a post.
 
More power to ye mister.

Jingly Jangly

Taranaich
Can you buy Bannockburn online?

Grant_M

@pa_broon74
It’s two because your donation is broken into two payments – Bloom take 5%.
link to bloomvc.com

sneddon

Les Wilson -it’s not the time it takes that I object to, it’s the level of detail they are asking for. As far as I’m concerend its over the top for a campaign donation site.  I’d  rather donate via the main YES site than the Bloom site as the level of personal details (mobile phone number FFS)they are asking for smacks of data fishing.  I can understand in cases of 500 plus pound donations you have to verify the person who is doing the donating, but that’s easily done.  There are so many ways they could have done it but it seems their marketing enthusism got the better of them and they forgot the golden rule when asking people for money keep it simple  YES could have saved time, got more money and goodwill by organising the set up so that people can contribute to this campaign via the YES website as an alternative to Bloom.

wee 162

@Taranaich
I admire the people putting their time and effort into setting up and running food banks. But they absolutely shouldn’t exist. In one of the most affluent countries in the world they’re an abomination. It’s the political and economic system we’re living under which causes this.

Jamie Arriere

I think the Bloom account is one of the little initiative tests in our population’s quest to govern itself. I have to say, some of you are a pathetic lot!
 
Oh dear, maybe we can’t run a country ourselves then after all… 🙂

David Martin

While I agree with the contributors in principle, none of us will want to think “I could have done more” on the 19th if it is a NO.

Les Wilson

Tried YES, it is a pain, however as posted by X_tricks here already it is much easier here   link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com  I think this is what people want and it is simple to use.

Fergie 35

It is worrying reading the comments about the Yes Scotland campaign and training staff being clueless and without a strategy.

I’ve donated more than £2k to the Yes Scotland so far, I’ fairly low paid, so I hope the leadership at the top grabs the bull by the horns to get them on track!

Les Wilson

Sneddon
Acknowledged, and that is exactly what I have done and reiterated the link in previous post.

Jamie Arriere

Fine Les, so everyone bypasses the Bloom site, the Yes campaign is publicly shown to fail to reach a target, and all of us who have pledged, have to donate again.
 
Thanks!

Chris

I tried to donate to the Yes Scotland 300 crowd on two occasions. I even got as far as setting up a bloom account and restarting my Paypal. I could not get it to work so set up a DD to Yes Scotland instead. They really need to make it easier if they want to crowd fund. It will be a shame if there is negative publicity over a failure to raise £30,000!

muttley79

Doug Daniel’s post at 11:47 sums it up for me.  I won’t bother responding in detail as it is an accurate summary of the situation.  There have been far too many internet fundraisers from the Yes side.  I suspect the SNP will see the Yes campaign over the £30,000 mark.  I think it has to be done in a more co-ordinated way.  I also believe that people might be better getting more involved in the Yes campaign next year in non internet activities (I include myself in that).  I fear that it can be a bit of an echo chamber on here and in other independence websites. 

Breastplate

Eventually got my donation through to Yes using Bloom so that it is added to the fundraiser.

Out of the three, Charles Docherty is right about Yes being the one that needs to succeed the most for fear of giving the No mob unnecessary ammunition.

Strategically, they shouldn’t be putting themselves in that position in my opinion.

I agree with Doug Daniel about the size of the sum the other 2 are looking for to be excessive but then again if they fail it won’t be used as a stick to beat Yes Scotland with.

Indy_Scot

Sorry if this has been answered, but is there any way to add to the Yes 300 crowd fund other than going through Bloom.

Thomas Widmann

As far as I can work out, Amanda Boyle (who’s been defending Yes Scotland’s fundraiser above) is the CEO of Bloom, so of course she would be standing up for it.  Is this fundraiser just a normal business transaction for Bloom, or are they giving Yes Scotland a favourable deal?

Les Wilson

Jamie Arriere says:
 
Well I suppose it IS the chance you take, but I would still make it both ways, it is urgent. But no doubt, there are lessons to be learned, and I completely understand your view, but I think these are exceptional circumstances but you can only do what you are happy with.

Cath

“Perhaps a wee unit in Easterhouse or Shettleston or even Thornliebank (possibly all 3 given the price of city centre realestate!) would have made more sense what with them being right at the heart of the communities that will make this happen?”
 
That’s precisely what all the local groups are for though, which this crowd-sourcing is supposed to help fund. Locally there are meetings going on all the time in church halls and other local venues right across Scotland. There are leaflets and papers being delivered, and people trying to drum up support, knock doors and run a genuine grassroots campaign, with varying levels of success. In places like Easterhouse I have a feeling campaigns like the RIC one are making much better running than the Yes one itself but it’s the same kind of thing – grassroots activity for independence.
 
Ideally, by next year I imagine at least some of those groups will be big enough to have wee shopfronts within local communities – I think a handful already do. But that is an expensive thing for wee local groups to do. Even hiring local church halls costs, a cost generally borne by the committed activists or by taking donations (which is still a risk to those setting up the event).
 
The head office helps co-ordinate all that, develop materials and deals with the media and, I guess, speaks to “opinion formers” and that kind of thing while the rest of us knock doors.
 
So check out where your local group is and go along and give them a hand – that’s mostly what  “the grassroots yes campaign” is, not the office on Hope Street.

john king

Anyone notice the Scottish Sun has done a pretty good demolition job on the OBR and   Darling? not shabby at all.

Appleby

“innovative, pioneering startup”
 
I can’t stand this kind of guff. It reeks of BS. OLD RECYLED BS at that. Do people not speak like human beings any more, but like cheesy old pamphlets instead? Especially here of all places. This isn’t Dragons Den or a board room where you have to bluff your way through with gibberish in place of real ability and knowledge. It screams “LIAR LIAR LIAR” as soon as I hear it as I know only fibbers and pocket-dippers use that sort of language. I’ve dealt with enough salesmen and people begging for a slice of the company pie to have heard it all before and many years ago. Even years ago it wasn’t particularly orginal. Dilbert was parodying it in the 90s.
 
Bloom is a turd, a blight on the fund raiser landscape. Extremely clumsy and it demands private information that is none of their bloody business. I do not want calls or texts on my mobile from Bloom. Ever. I’ve been donating to campaigns regularly, but making it even more difficult is so stupid. Imagine if you were collecting with a tin but when someone went to put a tenner in it you demanded they show you a gas bill and their birth certificate and do a jig before you’d let them put the money in? At least the weight of the tin wouldn’t be a burden on the wrist that way.
 
Any fund raiser should be as easy as popping money in the average tin. I should be able to do it on the spur of the moment. Rev has a system that works very well and I don’t see why it couldn’t be copied. It can be regular donation or a random tenner and takes less than a minute for both and it doesn’t require me to give my shoe size and a copy of my fingerprints for Rev’s archives or my phone number so he can call up at night and breathe heavily on the phone (I had to give him it specially to arrange that).
 
They’ve a much better system than the Bloom one here: link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
 
That is the one people should donate to and what I’d give to. That way the money all goes to them without some clumsy middle men scooping out another cut with a shoddy knock-off version of Kickstarter, etc. Why they need a separate (or should that be independent?) 15 grand there from the rest of the donation system is a mystery too. Never explained. Bloom is so bad that the only comments from real people on the Bloom funding campaign there are complaining about how bad the whole system is and how it should be replaced with something else!

The others really need to make it clear what that specially raised portion of money is being used for too or basic sums offered to show how they arrived at these figures requested. Otherwise they could be taking it as a lucky and snorting it all up their noses for all I know.

Alba4Eva

Jon D

@Cath says
 
A timely post Cath, and if everybody who supports the Yes Campaign were to register with their local groups and get that “inside” information there would be so much more of a greater understanding in relation to what is, and sometimes isn’t happening, just as you describe. 
 
I am convinced many will sign up next year, but, to all those reading this, we are already into single figures regarding the number of months remaining in this campaign. Like time, we need to get marching – literally and have these conversations and post ALL the literature that WILL be coming out as of January. 
 
Big Deep Breath Time Folks……………..

ronnie anderson

Taranaich,I agree with your sentiments, if the good people dint have a concience , the politicions would be in deep shit,so in effect we are our own worst enemy, on another topic just had the postman deliver Scotlands future , he left with , A LINK TO THE WINGS SITE , SEVERAL DOZ YES NEWSPAPERS / CARDS ( many in the depot are YES supporters ) & THE PHONE NUM TO GET THE WHITE PAPER , MY DAYS MADE UP, Rite you fkin ATOS lot on Fri am ready fur yous, Hi Diddlie Dee Its INDEPENDENCE FUR ME, n YOUS ARE ALL WELCOME TAE

sneddon

Ronnie- All the best with ATOS, they were so bad with me that the DWP Decision Maker overturned their verdict that I was fit to work before I even had a chance to Appeal! 🙂

Breastplate

Appleby, I agree but Yes Scotland have dug a hole for themselves and if we don’t get them out of it, the inevitable public spanking by the press won’t reflect well on them or us as Yes people.
So it seems to me to be imperative to use the Bloom site to donate to yes Scotland.
I’ll be extremely disappointed if
1. They try this sort of funding again and 
2. Nobody gets their arse kicked over this.
Of course as ever, this is my own humble opinion.

Richard

Thanks Rev
i was so pissed off that I got of my backside and volunteered my time for Helensburgh and lomond Yes and I committed £30 Through Bloom. I am truly fed up with Bitter Together capturing the pissing newspapers and feel the need to get out there and do some of this grass roots stuff.

kalmar

Thought people were being a bit harsh but looking at Bloom’s blog really didn’t do much to reassure me.  The written English is poor, cringingly littered with social media buzzwords and jargon and generally has the air of a dot com bubble era cash-in attempt, doomed to failure.  Sorry 🙁

Stan Blackley

Hi folks

I’m sorry that so many of you have experienced problems with the BloomVC third-party website that we’re using for our crowdfunding campaign. We chose to partner with BloomVC as they’re a Scottish company – the only company in Scotland offering the crowdfunding back-end. The other, more established, crowdfunding suppliers are all either based overseas or are off-shored for tax purposes and we risked criticism by partnering with them. Unfortunately, BloomVC’s platform has let us down, and we’ve been criticised anyway.

By now, you’ve probably all seen the list of big-money donors that the No campaign published over the weekend. Yes Scotland is community-funded and we rely on small donations from people like you to continue our work. I’m pleased to be able to say that crowdfund has received a significant boost on the back of the No campaign’s announcement.

We’ll be pushing the crowdfund in the coming days and hope to make up the deficit in the amount pledged and reach our target by Saturday coming. If you can / will persevere and try again, that would be greatly appreciated. Alternatively, you can help to promote the crowdfund to others. If you’d prefer to just donate straight to Yes Scotland, you can do so (in a variety of easy ways) here: link to scoty.es.
 
Again, my apologies for the inconvenience and frustration.
 
All best
 
STAN
 
Stan Blackley
Deputy Director of Communities
Yes Scotland

Anon Sailor

It’d be easier to hack the Bloom website than donate…. Warming up the Low Orbit Ion Canon…Open Ports found…injecting HTML code…donating now.

kininvie

Mildly off topic – but:
We quite often get people on here wondering how to get in contact with their local group. Yes Scotland have their Local Groups map, which should be a useful resource to help people do just that:
 
link to yesscotland.net
 
The problem is that the map is not particularly up to date, nor, in most cases, does it give contact information. But it has the ability to bring up an e-mail address (click Yes Musselburgh to see how) – which should make an easy way for volunteers to get in touch.
 
So, if you are active with a Yes group, it’s worth checking to see that the map accurately reflects the groups in your area, and secondly setting up an email a/c through which volunteers can get in touch.  Then email the info to
communities@yesscotland.net
 
and ask them to update…

Richard

I spoke to yes Scotland to let them know Because I needed to call them to get the Helensburgh contact details. I also offered to help update the map but they said it was being updated.

beachthistle

Bit the bullet – did the Bloom thing to try to stop Yes get a (for once deserved) kicking for a very public failed crowd-funding campaign foot-shoot.
 
Also did it because I am thinking about using crowd-funding to help get my wee business started-up, so finding out how good or bad ‘Bloom’ is was useful ‘research’ for me. Result: pretty grim. It took me about half an hour pfaffing around with passwords and giving personal info and agreeing to things/wording I normally wouldn’t.
 
So I won’t be using Bloom for crowd-funding my new business – and can’t for the life of me see why Yes thought it was a good idea (apart from it being Scottish) – the ‘if you don’t meet the target you don’t get anything’ model must be the worst thing that a political campaign (as opposed to a new business) could sign up to!?
 
Bigger-picture, I also have the perception that the Yes campaign is too focused aligning itself with the great-and-the-good and working with and through the bourgeoisie  – and that its community strategy is amateurish – just being better/more visible than the (non-existent) BT grassroots campaign is not good enough!

Cath

“and that its community strategy is amateurish”
 
It’s a grassroots campaign. Its community strategy relies on people coming forward to lead the campaigns in each area, and others joining in to make it a vibrant grassroots campaign. If you’re not doing either and think you can do better than those who are, get involved.

Oneironaut

While I fully support the Yes campaign and definitely plan on voting Yes myself.  I do sometimes have my doubts whether we can win this or not, every time I hear yet another person brainwashed by the MSM spitting back the headlines almost word for word at me on the street.
Things like this just increase the doubts…
 
I haven’t used it myself though, so I’m not going to join in the site bashing going on here.

Taranaich’s post kind of sums up my feelings about donations too.  Being a techie at heart, I prefer to solve problems by tracking them back to the cause and sorting things out there.  And as far as I’m concerned that means getting involved personally in the fight for a Yes vote.

Time is more useful a donation than money I think. And you can’t do much in the way of getting directly in touch with people if you’re just spending that time sitting in a fancy office… (Though I suppose you could wave at people passing by.  Maybe try and tempt them in with a “Free Cookies” sign stuck to the window or something!)

That said though, if I see any Yes campaigners with a collection tin, I’ll just stick a donation in that.  Maybe I can give them what I saved by not having to pay for a TV licence any more, hehe 🙂

Cath

Gah! “Its community strategy” not “it’s”. Damn whoever posted before I could fix that.

Oneironaut

@Cath
Sorry.  My bad! 🙁

Emma

I wonder if perhaps it’s because everyone knows the Wings fundraiser starts in February that Yes, Bella and Newsnet decided to get theirs in early?!!

Cath

“Sorry.  My bad! “
 
It was a very good post though so I forgive you 🙂

The Man in the Jar

I “fell out” with pay-pal some time ago and vowed never to use their services ever again so I am not even going to attempt to donate to Yes Scotland. Why do we need all of this bullshit anyhow. Is a simple sort code and bank account number beyond these fundraisers why do they have to make it so difficult.
 
Another reason for not donating to Yes Scotland is that for me at least they have been the biggest disappointment of the campaign so far. Not one leaflet never mind a newspaper have I received. I would happily get off my arse and deliver leaflets and newspapers if there was a Yes group in my area which there isn`t.
 
Bah humbug! :

kalmar

Onironaut says:
While I fully support the Yes campaign and definitely plan on voting Yes myself.  I do sometimes have my doubts whether we can win this or not, every time I hear yet another person brainwashed by the MSM spitting back the headlines almost word for word at me on the street.

 
I guess this is OT too, but have had similar depressing experiences myself lately.  People implacably set against the whole idea, and actually seem angry about it to the point where there’s no point trying to argue with them.  Hatred / suspicion of Alex Salmond seems a common theme, and enough to justify them voting no out of spite alone it seems!

What on earth has he done, I wonder, that can even be compared to the usual suspects in Westminster!  Are they really brainwashed on the issue or am I naively missing something?

kendomacaroonbar

@kalmar
 
My older sister has an irrational hatred of Alex S.  I can’t get any sense out of her at all what her issue with the guy is, but I reckon it’s something to do with the way he is portrayed on TV as a cock sure assertive individual.  I honestly think a lot of Scot’s just don’t like politicians to appear  ‘gallous’, and whilst Ecks combative and confident manner doesn’t vex me, it certainly hacks off a few folks I know. 

Jon D

@The Man in the Jar
 
You sound like the very man to start a Yes group in your area?
 
Just thinking.

Dave McEwan Hill

While we may have some issues with YES organisation and communication I think we are being a little harsh. It is under huge pressure at all times and has started from scratch. Our strength lies in localised face to face activity however and the online community and we are strengthening here all the time.
 
I would say however that if an expensive premises in central Glasgow was taken on it should be used as a comfrotable drop in spot where activists and the intersted can have a chat,a cuppa and their concerns addressed. Otherwise there was no need to take on a prominent site and a less expensive premises should have been taken if it is only to be used as an office.
 
O/T  Excellent piece on Bella Caledonia about those Tory donors and who and what they are

beachthistle

@Cath
 
“It’s a grassroots campaign. Its community strategy relies on people coming forward to lead the campaigns in each area, and others joining in to make it a vibrant grassroots campaign. If you’re not doing either and think you can do better than those who are, get involved.”
 
Fair comment re what I may or may not be doing myself, Cath. Re on-the-street activity (as opposed to going to organised meetings) I’ve only been leafleting once – responding to the one and only advert for volunteers I have seen so far from ‘Yes central’ – I get many more invites from BT to the email address I registered with them. Re my local community, if I can reduce my work-related travel enough, I plan to get more involved, but as far as community stuff being primarily/mainly locally led, I think it has to be a collaboration with Yes HQ.

I know from my days in the Scottish community empowerment/participatory democracy scene that it is believed by some in Scottish civil society that successful community, grassroots campaigns/organisations can/should just spontaneously emerge/organically happen. That might be true and might work for very local issues, but for an high-profile, atritional national campaign I would argue there has to be professional and timely support from a knowledgeable, experienced. empathetic and on-the-ball centre in terms of ideas, structure, information resources, media relations, etc. 
 
I have felt from the beginning that having a few experienced national level political and environmental issue activists in Yes HQ does not a community-campaign-strategic-and-support-unit make. I offered advice and my services free of charge in face-to-face meetings with them and in emails, but there has been no contact/reply from them in the past 10 months…

Ciaran McRae- YesABZ

It looks like the target has been halved, we are now at 166% with £8313.

Gillie

“we risked criticism” –  Stan Blackley

Now that is overly sensitive and defensive and highlights the lightly-lightly approach that is doing the YES campaign harm.
 
C’mon guys, this is not about tip-toeing around and looking over shoulders. Who gives a damn what unionists and the unionist press now thinks.  For god’s sake toughen up. You need the money, we’ve got the money. Give us a robust, safe and simple system that allows people to contribute.

Dave McEwan Hill

Alex Salmond has done absolutely nothing wrong and was by far the most popular political figure in Scotland two years ago. He was however the least popular some time before that. Then, as has happened now, he was  subjected to a sustained campaign of personalised vilification which has no basis in any real sense of anything he may have done.

When you aske the people why they don’t like Alex Salmond they come away with some generalised evasion normally because they only dislike him because the Record or the Express have been calling him names 

Jon D

@Gillie says:
Agree with much of that. We are doing this in order to stop having to doff our caps to the British Establishment and in so doing are doffing our caps to the British Establishment. 
 
It’s all a bit like this-
 
link to 2.bp.blogspot.com

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

@Ciaran McRae- YesABZ
 
Nope. Now at £8,380 promised of our £15,000 target (55%).
 
Sure you looked at the right one?

chalks

Just donated, do you lot use computers a lot?
 
As it was a bit annoying, but goodness sake, get over it.

Papadocx

Gillie 4:00 pm
well said gillie. For evil to triumph good men just have to do nothing. 
The backers and funders of no are a grisly crew, supported by naive and frightened people who never made a decision in their lives And think theY are backing the good British state. The state is rotten to the core and that is what these cowboys are!  

The Man in the Jar

@John D
 
Tried and failed due to lack of interest. (Or is it me?) 🙁
 
I have repeated nightmares where I am impersonating “UKOK lady” but with a Yes banner stuck to my wee table. 🙁

chalks

As for moaning at Yes for using a Scottish company that pays its taxes…..seriously, you’d rather they used a company registered offshore and alienate themselves? As once it was broken that they are offshore, you really think people would pledge money, not to mention the shit storm of ‘hypocrisy’ that would descend on them?

Robert Kerr

Had a go in spite of my earlier post. 
 
Was not pleased that the country pull down list starts with “United Kingdom”.
Was not pleased that my autofill didn’t work.
Was totally urinated upon when they wanted my paypal email address.
 
NEVER BEEN ASKED FOR THAT BEFORE.
 
Aborted donation.

Extreme0

@Dave McEwan Hill
I had someone tell me that the reason she dosen’t like him is because he Hates the English and saids that she provided “proof” (Naturally, most of this is proof is from biased sources without proof) of that claim from these links and says she isn’t gonna vote yes because of one man.

link to archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk

link to telegraph.co.uk

link to blogs.spectator.co.uk

People keep yapping about Alex Salmond when somebody mentions him/Scotland/Scottish independence has me thinking they have such a hard-on for him. Alex this and Alex that. I almost want to snap if they base their judgement in this vote because of one person.

When you hear this more often then you think. You can’t help but think of what it would like if they really had their heads stuck up their ass and see the shit they spew out.

thomas

Just want to say i make a monthly contribution to yes , and have made  a small one off donation to the others.
Keep smiling boys and girls , and all the very best to you all for christmas and all the best fur the new year and independance.

Colin Dunn

Have to say that the Yes Scotland ‘Bloom’ donation mechanism is nasty. Forces you to sign up for an account just to make a donation, and insists on a mobile number even if you don’t have one. Blech. Nasty. I suggest that Yes Scotland uses the same processor as Wings next time.

Frank Garden

Thanks X_Sticks says: I just made a Donation to the ‘YES’ campaign using ‘Paypal’.
Easy peasy it took me three minutes.

Grant_M

@Ciaran McRae- YesABZ
I saw that too!
link to s30.postimg.org
 
Seems like they’ve found their calculator again – now 56%, £8,704

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

@Chalks
 
It is perfectly fine IF you already have a paypal account that is current and active, and IF you used the same e-mail when registering for Bloom as your paypal account is registered under.
 
The problem people have been having is if you used another email to register THEN it asks you for your paypal one (Which isnt in the initial set-up page).
 
This causes an issue because it seems to hang up at this point and not let you go any further even if you put in your paypal e-mail in the field marked on the contact form.
 
To overcome this you need to go to your newly created Bloom Profile and update your personal details to include your paypal e-mail then go back to the crowdfunding page to click “promise” once more.
 
BUT getting back to the crowdfunding page is problematic…
 
Searching either “300 Crowd” or “Yes Scotland” yields no results.
 
Scottish Independence does work and finds the page however having unfindable by either the organisation looking for it, OR the name of the project is a bit unhelpful.
 
Many people had to come back to Wings and then re-click the link to get back to the right page.
 
NOW, having gone to all that bother they can then pledge an amount and be taken to the Paypal Screen.
 
As for Paypal, many people may have old details in PayPal, or even no account.
 
They have to sign up to PayPal (or get an old log in amended) and then upload the details of their card they wish to pay via, address details and so on – ensuring these are all accurate and up to date.
 
Many people do not like having internet based organisations holding the details of their bank cards in their files (but there is no way round this). Some people may be put off by not having a Direct pay option.
 
Once the person has accessed Paypal and confirmed their details are correct they can then make their “Promise”.
 
Thats A LOT of steps for something thats supposed to be simple and will inevitably put people off.
 
NOW, as to why they though it was a good idea to choose a platform that only gives you the money if you reach the target is another story.
 
They talk about a certain amount being enough for hiring a hall, a pop up stand, leaflets etc… but they have set it up in a way that they can ONLY get 100% of these things or nothing… THAT is foolish. 3 pop up stands out of 100 is better than none!
 
The criticism may be harsh but it really is valid. 

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

As for those who are going on about letting big donations come in… FINE…
 
BUT they should set up a crowdfunding that is less hassle and has a maximum donate limit of £499 – with a “Donate larger amount here” button that takes the donator through the full system checks.

Robert Kerr

I made a small test donation to Bella via my paypal.
Time taken was 1 min 3 seconds.
 
Slick!

Bertie K

Oh naw, just reaised Scotland wont appear in country of origin drop-down boxes in the event of a no vote 

chalks

I always thought it was PayPal holding the bank account information, rather than the company involved…if people don’t like paying online, then they would never sign up to Paypal?
 
Common sense dictates that.
 
I can see why people are upset, I had to go back to Yes Scotland, click on the link and through that way again, but it’s not undecideds giving money, it’s hardcore Yes supporters.
 
Jesus, you can walk through the pishing rain/wind/hail (delete as applicable) but 5 minutes of faffing about on a computer is too much?  Come on.
 
Suck it up, we’ve had this crap union to put up with, a little PC based rage is nothing.
 
: )

Bella

Interesting discussion and thanks to WoS for the plug.

A couple of quick comments. First up we launched our crowd appeal and within a matter of days several others launched as well. There was nothing we could do about it. We did think it was both odd and badly thought-through by the others.

Second Doug mentions ‘Stu’s fundraiser was clear – we were paying for a journalist to make the site his full-time job for a year. That justified the size of the fundraiser – it was a man’s salary for a year.’ Ours is pretty similar – its a full time editorial post and a columnist –  in this case George Rosie – an award-winning investigative journalist.
 
Thirdly – I totally appreciate the point people are making about the time of year and everyone being skint. I guess we’re all learning about how to do this best.

If anyone wants to support us please do. Here’s the link again:

link to igg.me
 
Thanks!

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

@Chalks
 
“it’s not undecideds giving money, it’s hardcore Yes supporters”
 
No… its ‘Yes’ supporters…
 
We cannot rely solely on the hardcore support, but need to make sure we attract thos sympathetic to the cause (but not committed).
 
There are many people who may be quite happy for independence and will vote that way, but they also wont go out and make a difference because they view it as nice to have rather than essential.
 
You need to make it easy to donate. Jumping through hoops is counter-productive.

Doug Daniel

Fair play to Stan for posting here – how often do you see folk from the No campaign putting their heads above the parapet? At the first sign of criticism, those guys are AWOL.
 
I actually remember people telling Stu he should have used Bloom, precisely because it was Scottish. So Stan’s right that Yes Scotland would have been inviting criticism by not using it. It’s just a shame it turns out it’s not up to the job – if I remember correctly, some of the error handling for filling out your profile on the site is pretty poor, although you tend to notice these things more when you’re a programmer.
 
It’s okay to make a mistake as long as you learn from it, and it sounds like Yes Scotland have learnt from this. Maybe the indy movement as a whole could learn some lessons from this as well – better communication between campaigns to ensure we don’t have three seeking our dosh at the same time again being probably the most important lesson.

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

@Bella,
 
Hope you get there but you’ve a long way to go and a short time to do it.
 
Good Luck.

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

^^^^ What Doug said ^^^^

Cath

I really hope both Bella and Newsnet make the targets – they’re both great and in totally different ways. Wish I could chuck a bit more in than I have but money really is spread thin this month.

rabb

Cath,
Thanks for the reply to my earlier post. I’m fully aware of the grassroots campaign. I was part of my local Yes group for some time until circumstances changed and indeed stuffed leaflets through doors & manned street stalls.
 
My point is that the Yes campaign could have had more bang for their buck and be situated in the epicentre of those we all must convince and still co-ordinate rather than pay over the odds for a mediocre city centre location that a few visit. Aggregation of marginal gains and all that!
I’m as sure as the s**t on a sheeps arse that it would be mobbed every day if it were in Possil or the like.
 
For now I’ll continue to contribute financially where I can and have even put principle aside and pledged via Bloom

kininvie

@beachthistle:
 
Some of the points you make are good. Part of the problem is we in Scotland are not used to US-style campaigning, and I think Yes HQ was over-ambitious in maybe thinking that an Obama-type hopey-changey pass-the-mesage-on movement would evolve without a lot more direction from the centre….
 
But in the absence of such direction, the important thing is to get a grip at a local level. We wasted a lot of time floundering about here in West Lothian before realising this. It helped us that we are near neighbours to three of the best-organised Yes groups in the country – Clydesdale, Edin West & East Lothian, and we recognised that we were being put to shame – so started learning from them.
 
There’s no set way to do it: different groups have different skills. But there are a few fundamentals: communicate via Twitter & Facebook; make it easy for volunteers to find you and be welcomed in; get regular activities going and publicise them; be visible; raise money… And have a quick ‘n dirty organising structure to decide what will happen, where and when.
 
Once you have even the bare bones of a local set-up and are coming up with ideas about what to do, Yes HQ is good at backing you up & advising.
 
Apologies if I’m teaching Grannies to suck eggs…. just that we wasted a lot of time waiting for things to evolve spontaneously – which of course they didn’t!

Morag

There is something about Wings, and it comes down to Stu’s personality I think.  Whereas the other sites give us things to read, Wings is a place to BE.  I’ll toss in a tenner for a site that gives me good things to read.  I’ll go a lot further for a community where I can live and interact.
 
At one point I thought NNS might be that community, however NNS is run by borderline fascists with a judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that is a complete turn-off.  Wings stepped in just about the point where that was becoming obvious, and provided what was needed and what had been lacking.
 
I had already been musing about whether it might actually be possible for Wings to be a full-time effort for the duration, before Stu actually mooted the crowdfunding.  I know how hard it is to hold down a job to pay the bills, and try to do something that makes a real difference in your spare time.  So when the crowdfunder came along, I was primed.
 
Look at the difference in the number of comments on Wings, compared to the other sites that are currently seeking funding.  Go figure.

Dan Huil

Just to say I’ve made small donations to Yes Scotland,WOS,newsnetscotland and Bella and have encountered no problems.Hopefully I will make further small donations in the future.

I think I’m right in saying all the sites I listed continue to increase in popularity – especially from first-timers.This is the main thing to keep in mind.There is still a long way to go till September.The non-thinking Naysayers [Salmond and Sturgeon haters included] will probably remain No voters but there are plenty of don’t-knows and unsure doubters who are open to reason.

Cath

“NNS is run by borderline fascists with a judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that is a complete turn-off.  “
 
Have to defend NNS on this one. Wings is a great place to come and comment and is a kind of community. But NSS is more like a media outlet, and the lack of 200+ comments can make their stories easier to share with some people. Similarly, National Collective, Bella or Business for Scotland are better to share with others.
 
It’s about having a variety of different tones and styles to share with those people you think will take the message best from that kind of site. Huge comments threads entirely filled with very decided people can put some undecideds or no types off.

cynicalHighlander

Concur Cath and would add some seem to have a nasty agenda against some sites because they cannot dominate its comment content.

Morag

Perhaps if they didn’t take comments at all it would make for less ill-feeling.  However, their very snooty attitude to any comment that doesn’t entirely meet with their idiosyncratic approval is distinctly off-putting, as is the management’s total failure to engage (identifiably) in the BTL discussion.

They’re almost as bad as the Herald.  Any criticism of a post, and you’re on permanent pre-moderation that completely prevents participation in any discussion.  When that happens, you might as well be banned.  Just ask how many Wings posters are in that situation.  Including Stu, I think.

It doesn’t make for good feelings, and lack of good feelings is not conducive to opening PayPal account.

Morag

Concur Cath and would add some seem to have a nasty agenda against some sites because they cannot dominate its comment content.
 
Would you care to expand on that, or maybe justify the jibe?

Jingly Jangly

Morag
Totally agree re nns

Morag

It’s about having a variety of different tones and styles to share with those people you think will take the message best from that kind of site.
 
I do agree with the “variety of tones and styles” thing.  However, what I was talking about was realistic expectations of what a fundraiser can achieve.  People are far more likely to dig deep for a community than for a site that just provides good articles.  And a site that has a friendly attitude is going to do better than a site which is unfriendly.
 
People choose which appeals to give to, and how much to give.  Wings was always on the edge of the curve on that one, and I think sites which don’t have the same button-press factors were perhaps unrealistically enthused by the success of the Wings fundraiser.

Ken500

The SNP will make sure the target is reached.

Join the SNP to achieve Independence. They are well organised.

Linda's Back

To raise the spirits and no pre Christmas begging
There is a good article on Business for Scotland on the problems NO Scotland side has finding prominent business people to speak out against self determination.
link to businessforscotland.co.uk

Linda's Back

Or Derek Bateman’s take on Bitter Together donors
 
Well, maybe not. But if you’d told me two years ago that our constitutional debate would involved Labour getting into bed with this motley crew of millionaires and military cowboys, I wouldn’t have believed it. Whoever wins next year, the battle honours of Scottish Labour, once the proud vanguard of the working Scot, will be hung for ever with the names of these carpetbaggers and charlatans to whom the working class are mere commodities.
PS Blair McDougall is going into psychosis mode believing his own propaganda. “Alex Salmond has shown he is willing to spend hundreds and thousands of pounds of taxpayers money on propaganda for his campaign”, he says. Who’s paying for the 30 reports of the British Government and parliamentary reports of every single Committee at Westminster and the Secretary of State’s department, I wonder?
link to derekbateman1.wordpress.com

TheGreatBaldo

Don’t see the point in whinging about other pro-YES sites….

I remember as a kid my Granddad seeing Mary Whitehouse on the telly moaning about something and saying ‘Having you ever thought of using the f**kin off switch you stupid woman’……same applies here I thnk….dinna like the sites, dinnae visit them or send them cash…easy.
 
On a broader point how many Indy crowd fundings have there been now ? There must have been well over quarter of a million raised surely ?
 
Too skint to contribute right now….but I’ll bung the Rev a couple of brick in the spring and I’ll be more than happy to throw a similar amount to anyone wanting to crowd fund a Bilboard campaign…..
 
Especially if one of them is a picture of Maggie with the tagline ”MAGGIE WOULD WANT YOU TO VOTE NO’ 😉

handclapping

@Ken500
The SNP may be well organised but it will take more than them. It needs the Greens, Tommy, the SSP, Labour4Indy and more, particularly you.
Remember in 1950, when the SNP was counted in 100s, the Covenant Association got 2,000,000 signatures on a petition for an Assembly. That’s the sort of result we need to aim for and the SNP isn’t necessary to get it either.

Papadocx

Re Alex Salmond: it’s called character assassination. If you tell the people often enough and long enough (preferably through a trust BBC tv channel) then the lie becomes fact to a large proportion of the sharper types. It’s called freedom and democracy! 
 
Remember a lie will be half way round the world before the truth gets it’s shoes on. 

Marcia

A debate was held at  a Kirkintilloch school today attended by 300 students, the young Michael Gray from the National Collective tweeted:

Teacher: At the start of term most pupils were voting No. By the end of today’s debate most of the class were voting Yes. We can do this.

Norrie

Morag
“There is something about Wings”
I agree 100%