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Wings Over Scotland

Jingle Tins

Posted on December 16, 2013 by

Now, we’re not putting ourselves up as some sort of expert fundraising authority just because we’ve run a few successful ones, but you didn’t have to be a genius to slap your forehead with your palm last month when the official Yes Scotland campaign AND two of the country’s biggest pro-indy websites (as well as a couple of smaller ones) contrived to launch appeals for very large amounts of cash not only all at once, but in the weeks leading up to Christmas when everyone’s budgets are stretched to the limit.

Bella Caledonia

Newsnet Scotland

Yes Scotland

(To give plenty of notice so that hopefully this sort of thing doesn’t happen again, our second annual Wings fundraiser will be in late February and March 2014.)

Still, we are where we are, and all three are now entering their final phases some way short of their targets. That’s not necessarily a big deal – the Scotland Yet one looked like failing by a big distance at this stage (as did the Common Weal’s before it), but reached the finishing line after a big boost from generous Wings readers.

But time’s getting tight, and the Herald has already had a bit of a sneer about the response to the Yes Scotland pledge drive, so if you can spare a quid or two for any or all of the three, we’re sure it’d be both appreciated and well used, especially in the context of the grisly collection of Tory millionaires, bankers and spooks who just handed “Better Together” another million and a half quid.


Incidentally, it may be worth noting that in a commendable attempt to use a Scottish company, Yes Scotland is using a model by which if they fail to hit their target, they won’t actually get ANY of the money promised so far, while Bella and Newsnet both get to keep whatever they’ve made whether they make their goals or not.

(The system is also stupidly irritating to use, insisting that would-be donors set up an account before they can hand over money and then demanding they use PayPal, when the ENTIRE POINT of PayPal is supposed to be that you don’t need to keep setting up accounts everywhere, you bloody idiots.)

Conversely, though, we’d hope that Yes Scotland was well-enough connected that their appeal wouldn’t be allowed to fail for the sake of a few thousand quid. So we’d suggest making any decisions purely on the merits of each in its own right.

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    328 to “Jingle Tins”

    1. rabb says:

      As above, the problem with the Yes Scotland one is that I am not willing to create an account with their chosen host. At least the indigogo site only requires an email address & a paypal account.
      I have donated via their own website and will continue to do so.

    2. G H Graham says:

      The YES campaign lost all sort of perspective by setting up their HQ at a very expensive address in the centre of Glasgow. (136 Hope Street to be precise).

      I visited them during what they called Ambassador Training. The building is very nice indeed. It’s obviously prime real estate. It cannot be a cheap place to rent.

      Unfortunately the quality of the Ambassador training staff was dire; inarticulate, amateurish, visionless & inept.

      Grass roots campaigns are in principle a good thing. However, lavishing money on needlessly expensive offices & then staffing them with clueless people does them no favours at all.

      I’ll be voting for independence anyway but the YES campaign will always struggle to convince undecided voters to take the plunge when it can’t get itself in order first.

      Starting a nationwide funding campaign 9 days before Xmas during a economic downturn is tactically so stupid, one might wonder what mind altering pills they put in their tea.

    3. Breastplate says:

      Maybe the price of Xmas card + stamp to all 3 could get them over the line.

    4. Mary Bruce says:

      That Bloom site that the Yes campaign are using is utter rubbish. What a palaver. It takes ages to load. When I tried to set up an account I just ended up staring at a page for 10 minutes that said “Account set up. Loading your account” then lots of buffering, then nothing happened. On the third attempt I eventually managed to make a donation, but it was a bit confusing and a right pain.

    5. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As above, the problem with the Yes Scotland one is that I am not willing to create an account with their chosen host.”

      Aye. If you’re asking people to do you a favour by sending them money, RULE FUCKING ONE is that you DON’T MAKE IT TEDIOUS AND DIFFICULT FOR THEM – and there’s almost NOTHING internet users hate more than setting up fucking accounts for things, especially things they’re not planning to use on a regular basis.

      A good friend of mine’s just successfully crowdfunded a card game he designed on Kickstarter. It looked brilliant, and I immediately went to back it – it was only nine quid, for which you got a copy of the game and a wee badge. But Kickstarter, to my bewildered horror, not only demanded an account be set up, but also that I pay for it with a credit or debit card rather than PayPal.

      I was so annoyed that I gave up there and then, and only on the very last day of the campaign, hours before deadline, did I grit my teeth and say “Look, this is your friend, and it’s a game you really want to play, so knuckle down and jump through all the frigging hoops.”

      I have absolutely no idea how Kickstarter got to be so big despite being such a massive pain in the arse to use (I have a vague feeling that it didn’t used to be), but Bloom has clearly learned exactly the wrong half of that equation. I only barely managed to donate to my own friend, for something that was really more of a purchase than a gift. There’s not a hope in hell I’d have gone to that much trouble just to chuck money into a pit where I’d see nothing tangible in return.

      Incidentally, the card game arrived last week. Last night I took it to my regular poker game to try out as a time-filler during breaks, and it went down a storm – it’s brilliant fun. If you like that sort of thing, I highly recommend it when it goes on regular sale, which should be next month:

    6. big_al says:

      I saw that the Yes Scotland fundraiser was stalling somewhat and went to donate this morning but came up against exactly what you describe above.
      Having to create an account with Bloom in order to part with my cash.
      Put me right off and I didn’t do it 🙁
      Maybe I’ll try again when I’m less irritated.

    7. Craig P says:

      Regarding Scottish companies, I have had a similar issue with Scottish web providers. It works out so much cheaper to have my sites hosted abroad or in rUK. (I did initially have hosting with one Livingston-based provider, but they were bought over by Webfusion). It’s not a big issue, but it would be nice if Scottish web hosts were competitive. Maybe someone knows of one with good price plans for personal websites?
      As for online fundraising. Was WoS the first big indy site to do a fundraiser? I was certainly more enthused for the WoS fundraiser than others that have followed, which have felt more like a duty than the original feeling of sticking it to the MSM and empowering our own pro-indy voice that I had with the WoS fundraiser. 
      I’ve given money in the past to Newsnetscotland and National Collective, but it comes to the point when there are several folk asking for money and you end up just choosing a favourite. Wonder if others feel the same?

    8. Bunter says:

      Now that I’ve cancelled my Herald subs, I’ve just diverted what I would have paid to them over the next twelve months, to Bella and Newsnetscotland. Feeling smug and satisfied.

    9. msean says:

      Interesting that you mention that yes Scotland one,I tried to set up an account,it seemed to be successful,but it didn’t work.If the cause doesn’t get the money if the target isn’t reached,who does?Does that mean that money collected in for a cause in the right spirit could end up going to the company instead?The problem is that if you donate to the website of Yes Scotland,it will as you say,leave the fundraiser  open to attack as unsupported.Indiegogo seems to be the one to use as they will recieve what is raised.

    10. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      A friend of mine is a US citizen and is connected politically in Washington.
      She is a member of the SNP and on a visit to Scotland visited 136 Hope Street.
      She told me, nice people with no game plan.

    11. X_Sticks says:

      You can make a donation here:
      This way allows Paypal and other options. No need to sign upp with Bloom. I didn’t want to sign up to Bloom either. I don’t like sites that demand your mobile number to join.

    12. Amanda Boyle says:

      Thanks for your comments, perhaps a more useful and productive use of the space would be to encourage more people to contribute?

      There is no money, only promises and pledges until the target is hit, because we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options. As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.  They’ve served us, and the nearly 300 projects who’ve used the site, well.

      So, before taking swipes at an innovative, pioneering startup, perhaps you could find out a little more about why the Scots government isn’t doing More to help, not hinder, us??

      Have a happy and generous Christmas

    13. You can imagine the fun the MSM will have if Yes Scotland fail to meet their target. Support “collapsing”, “evaporating”, etc.  I’ll stick some cash in later even though I’ve got a DD with them (which was simplicity itself to set up).

      Hopefully someone will have a word with them over their procedures. Like others I absolutely hate having to register/sign in or whatever just to spend my cash.

    14. Training Day says:

      It’s all been said above about the palaver needed to get money to Yes.  It’s bloody ridiculous.  Tried to donate £30 3 weeks ago and failed.
      However, I shall try again today.

    15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As for online fundraising. Was WoS the first big indy site to do a fundraiser? I was certainly more enthused for the WoS fundraiser than others that have followed, which have felt more like a duty than the original feeling of sticking it to the MSM and empowering our own pro-indy voice that I had with the WoS fundraiser.”

      I believe we were certainly the first to do a public one, yes.

    16. Gav says:

      Ok, I dontated to Bella and Yes.  Newsnet already get the equivalent of what I used to spend on the P&J, monthly. That will do them.

      Daft to be running fund raisers at the same time,  also conflicting with the charities a lot of people try to support at this time of year and competing with Christmas. What were they thinking?

    17. wee 162 says:

      @ G H Graham
      I understand the point you’re making about the nice office thing, but remember it isn’t just you or me who’s going in to that (or at least I wouldn’t imagine so). That is liable to be where they’re doing some press stuff, holding meetings etc. And doing that in a community centre in Castlemilk is going to give an impression that the campaign is wildly underfunded, isn’t taking it seriously, and is showing no respect to those it is meeting with. Now if it was up to me I’d be saying “tough, deal with it” but that isn’t the way the campaign is being run.
      You’re spot on about the timing though.
      Has anyone ever bought a Humble Bundle before? On there you can spend whatever you want and then allocate the money wherever you wish from the designated parties (the publisher of the games you’re getting, a named charity, and the humble bundle people which is referred to as a tip). It occurs to me that a crowd funding model along those lines would be quite a bit better than having three different appeals running at the same time…

    18. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.”

      Yes, and then you put a locked sodding door in front of it. I won’t even login to a site that demands my Facebook information, never mind my home address and bloody mobile phone number.

      I don’t really like putting other folks’ fundraisers on the Wings front page, Amanda, not because I want them to fail but because I don’t want readers to get fundraiser fatigue, or to feel as if they can’t visit the site without constantly being asked for money. But I’ve linked and publicised these three anyway, and doing so without acknowledging the barriers one of them puts up would be to insult my readers’ intelligence.

      I’d love to use a Scottish company in February rather than Indiegogo. But if you want Bloom to succeed you might want to take my comments, and those of other readers, on board as the well-intentioned constructive criticism they are, rather than getting prickly about it. And if people’s constructive criticism is a little too strongly-worded for you, maybe ponder whether it’s a wise idea to make your would-be customers that angry.

    19. Kirriereoch says:

      I´ve donated to two of the campaign but the third one I just gave up. I´d looked and tried a few days ago to donate and gave up and have just tried again, created an account and it´s gone nowhere. 
      And the one that frustrated me is indeed “Yes Scotland” so I´m in agreement with everyone else´s comments too. I´ll try again later.

    20. Gayle says:

      Is this article and thread meant to be highlighting the YES campaign and news outlet fundraisers or just to moan about them? Seems people have a bit of the Grinch in them today. 

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Is this article and thread meant to be highlighting the YES campaign and news outlet fundraisers or just to moan about them? Seems people have a bit of the Grinch in them today.”

      Hey, just say the word and I’ll delete the post if it upsets you.

    22. Breastplate says:

      I think whoever was in charge of picking the most user unfriendly site between the three of them should receive a beating with a baseball bat covered in marmite ( I don’t like marmite).

    23. wee 162 says:

      @ Gayle 10.13am
      People are having a bit of a moan because the timing is a bit crap, and one of them is awkward as all hell to donate to. Those are legitimate concerns when people are asking you for money.

    24. G H Graham says:

      To Wee 162,
      The only folks that can vote next year are residents of Scotland. While it may be nice to have a lavish office for foreign dignitaries to visit, it’s excessively pointless.
      What really matters, is that ordinary, undecided voters are presented with balanced facts offered from people who can at least articulate in simple, unequivocal language the fundamental benefits of independence.
      Those arguments can be made in a pub, a supermarket queue or even a brothel.
      And indeed should be. That’s what grass roots means.  

    25. naebd says:

      It’s always a pain to set up an account, but if a fund-raising website wants to let fundraisers have a relationship with (sorry – bit wanky there – email) their donators then it is one obvious way to support that. If fundraisers want to send items to people then having addresses as part of the platform is also useful. I didn’t actually have any technical difficulties using the site, but did bitch to myself that if one of the main sites had been used then I’d already have an account.

      Anyway, it’s maybe 5 minutes of your time. Subtract 1/20*yourhourlyrate from the donation amount.

      The issue of the effectiveness of YesScotland is a different one. I also had no problems setting up a DD for Yes Scotland back in the early days when they were an unknown quantity.

    26. richard says:

      I confess to being confused (and a bit irritated) by the site and not sure if I have actually achieved anything. I consider Yes Scotland an important part of getting a result and I am not a rich, white, Tory supporter (although I can confirm that I am male). I will contribute what I can provided it is easy to do so. Probably best to donate again via the website but fairly sure that the No campaign will be ‘dancing in the streets of Raith’ if the crowdfunding doesnt reach its target

    27. big_al says:

      Hold on.
      If the Yes Scotland target isn’t reached, does that mean those who pledge aren’t debited anything from their accounts?

    28. Another wee donation sent off to YES Scotland.  I didn’t mind setting up an account, it meant I got to waste 5 minutes of work time.  Bonus.  (Just don’t tell the gaffer)

    29. big_al says:

      Having now read through the FAQ that appears to be the case. (My earlier comment)

    30. HandandShrimp says:

      I noticed the other day that Better Together is awash with money and that pretty much all of it comes from Tory sources and a hefty amount from prople who don’t actually live in Scotland.
      They have money but no soul do our Better Together chums. Hopefully that void in their heart will become apparent as both outfits start to hit the airwaves and media in a more overt way.
      Anybody got any idea what BT spend their money on? It certainly isn’t activists. Admittedly their offices are very fancy. The basement of an office in Hope Street isn’t as des res as Blytheswood Square.

    31. Gayle says:

      The campaigns have been going for a wee while but were not well publicized. While I understand people grumping about setting up an account to donate regardless of which site or platform people use, all I’m seeing is “don’t donate cause it’s a bit of a fuss.” The fundraisers are for helping the grassroots of Scottish Independence and getting unbiased news out there. Taking a few minutes out to donate is no big deal.

    32. crisiscult says:

      I bought some merchandise from Yes the other day. Does that count towards their donations? Tough time with young family and Christmas just round the corner, but can probably scrape a few pound together for one or two of these sites.
      As for the card game, looks quite interesting. I bought Lost Cities a couple of weeks ago and my wife and I have played it almost every night since. Highly addictive card game.

    33. chalks says:

      I think they have a game plan now : )

    34. Graeme Purves says:

      I got there eventually, but the Bloom site almost seems designed to make it as difficult and off-putting as possible.  This needs sorted!

    35. Craig P says:

      Gayle, you probably already know this, but when you are in business the most valuable thing you can get (except loads of sales!) is honest constructive feedback on your failings from potential customers who are well-disposed towards you. 
      It might well be that the feedback on this thread is priceless advice for Bloom.
      big_al – yes, though they will have your contact details…

    36. Ken500 says:

      Shame, no tomato soup.

    37. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “all I’m seeing is “don’t donate cause it’s a bit of a fuss.” “

      No. What you’re seeing is “donate EVEN THOUGH it’s a bit of a fuss”. Otherwise there’d be no post and links at all. Jeez.

    38. Extreme0 says:

      If they wanted to get more donations. Surely it would of been a better idea to wait a month or so after each donation bid rather then having each donation drive for different projects at the same time.

      And having donation drives during the time when wallets are going to be crying from the Christmas spirit may also not be a great time to set it up.

    39. Kenny Campbell says:

      “She told me, nice people with no game plan.” I think this reflects perfectly the campaign so far TBH.  I keep waiting for the big counter attack or at least a decent skirmish…..So many gaps in the BT strategy yet the single strategy is we seem to just have a faith in the voters to see through it.
      I can say for sure of my friends who were intending to vote NO only 1 out of 5 has swung to DK.  My MiL has went from YES to DK due to scare stories.

    40. orkers says:

      Donated £20.14 to ‘Yes’ via Paypal. Took two minutes. No problems observed.

    41. handclapping says:

      I find the Private Eye way where they give you the Sort Code and account number and you just send money best. Much easier and you dont get a badge / car sticker / tour of the office / personalised tweet / name in lights all of which I can do without.

    42. Extreme0 says:

      @Kenny Campbell
      I think this reflects perfectly the campaign so far TBH.  I keep waiting for the big counter attack or at least a decent skirmish…..So many gaps in the BT strategy yet the single strategy is we seem to just have a faith in the voters to see through it.
      I can say for sure of my friends who were intending to vote NO only 1 out of 5 has swung to DK.  My MiL has went from YES to DK due to scare stories.
      I think people need a group that associates with just providing the facts rather then having either a Pro-Indy/Union site or group provide the facts to help voters make the decision.

      People want pure unbiased information. I say having a site/group dedicated to just providing the facts to the DKs may not be a bad idea at all. It just needs people who are not biased to the debate to get something like that to work fully.

    43. crisiscult says:

      @Kenny Campbell    The only positive seems to be that ‘No’ are even worse than ‘Yes’.
       I was talking to a new girl at work who is already a yes, but she’s had nothing from Yes, e.g. leaflets through the door. She wants to volunteer. She just moved into the Shawlands area about a year ago, and doesn’t know where they are or who to contact. I suggested Mhairi Hunter, though not sure that’s correct. Anyway, I asked her if she’d had anything from No and she said No. I’m the same. I’m in east end of Glasgow and I’ve had one leaflet from Yes in the last year, none from No. I’m going out tomorrow to do a spot of leafleting though, so hopefully I won’t be the only one. Perhaps No are relying on the media to do their job for them. Considering a majority of people in Scotland don’t even identify as being British, it seems to be working for them so far. 

    44. orkers says:

      Forgot to mention ………didn’t sign into an account. Just gave the money with no problems.

    45. naebd says:

      handclapping, yesscot need to keep track of where and how much they accept, so that scheme doesn’t fly.

    46. Gayle says:

      @Craig, I hadn’t donated using Bloom before as I usually donate straight to the Yes Scotland site. However, I just went on to see what the fuss was about. It took me less than 2 minutes to set up an account and donate. There were absolutely no problems whatsoever. In fact it was quicker than using kickstarter and I found it to be very user friendly. 

    47. Craig Stewart says:

      Everyone needs to take a step back and chill.

      Rev, I can understand your frustration but stroppy sounding responses don’t become you. Take a step back and stick the kettle on.

      To the crowd funding site, as Stu said, take heed of the comments on here. It’s invaluable feedback. If people are getting this worked up and not donating stating that the site’s design is the reason, ask for feedback and fix it. Getting all defensive does nobody any good. Maybe set up an email address or Twitter hashtag to allow all the frustrated people here to provide you feedback to allow you to improve the service?
      Everyone else, let’s all chill out. We’re all on the same team after all.  🙂

    48. Vincent McDee says:

      Amanda, “we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options”, reads like councilspeak and your reaction to the comments here has nothing to do with proper Customer Relations.

      Good marketing start by asking your customers what and how they want and satisfying those wishes. They will repeat purchase because they like what and how you are selling.

      Besides, you seem not to remember the very first law of sales, the customer is always right.

      When criticised, particularly in this case so much constructively, you just don’t tell your customers they don’t know what’s good for them, specially when that is the mode your competition has chosen.

      Now, take it like a pro, bit your fingertips and do not type, read, think, consider how can you use the advise and act on it.

      Your boss and all of us want you to do the best possible job, there is too much to lose otherwise.

      You’re young, you’ll learn and survive.

      I’m sending you a cheque.

    49. naebd says:

      vincent, you have a lot to learn about <b>not coming across as a complete <i>pompous ass</i></b>.

    50. Helena Brown says:

      We realise why they are having difficulty, tried just now to pay by PayPal, old version and had to give up. I suggest that they get to grips quickly or we are going to be truly up a creek.

    51. Robert Kerr says:

      My donations in the past
      The Misbelievers,
      Yes Scotland club 300
      National Collective
      Common Weal
      Now out of cash. I am retired and living of savings basically.
      I purchase on internet a great deal almost always via paypal. If I can’t use paypal I don’t usually bother and find another vendor.
      Next year I shall invest man-hours not cash for the Cause.
      Maybe WoS though. Oh yes certainly WoS

    52. A2 says:

      Actuallty Gail  yes it is a big deal, IT and web projects fail on there lack of user friendliness and that’s the problem here. I take it from your posts that you are quite unfamiliar with wings, we are perfectly aware what the fundraiser are for. 

      Where you are seeing “don’t donate cause it’s a bit of a fuss.” I’m seeing “I tried it was bloody difficult, and it asked for information I’m not prepared to give out” several people have stated they will try again or donate via different routes. Maybe you need to look again.

      There are a number of Scottish usability consultants who might have been asked to run an eye across these products, no doubt the back end is brilliant but if you put a rolls engine in a car, you don’t make the on button difficult to find.

    53. Anon Sailor says:

      The Yes Campaign needs a kick up the arse! Still waiting for answers from them ten months later. We should put our Rev. in charge of the campaign for independence.
      All those who agree say, aye.

    54. mogabee says:

      Regarding Yes donating, I’m not sure how to proceed from setting up acc. I don’t have mobile so used house no and that seems ok but where do I go from there? Help!

    55. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Reminds me of the old peom along the lines of ” for the want of a nail ” and suggest we all start pointing our guns over the barricade instead of those who are trying to man it.

    56. rabb says:

      G H Graham says:

      To Wee 162,
      While it may be nice to have a lavish office for foreign dignitaries to visit, it’s excessively pointless.
      Indeed. Perhaps a wee unit in Easterhouse or Shettleston or even Thornliebank (possibly all 3 given the price of city centre realestate!) would have made more sense what with them being right at the heart of the communities that will make this happen?
      That said, I’m not on here to slag off the Yes campaign. It is what it is. I just won’t be signing up for any more fecking accounts. I’ll continue to donate via the main yes site.

    57. Craig P says:

      Gayle, I wondered what the fuss was all about and went to the link at the top of this post to Yes Scotland and donated myself! Didn’t take long, they did ask for name, address, phone number, email, as mandatory fields, though easy enough to put fakes if desired. I was then directed to a paypal page and as I have a paypal account already, completion required just one more click.
      It was only when I clicked the back button that I realised I hadn’t ‘pledged’ at all, but clicked a link on the Bloom page to Yes Scotland, and from there donated directly via paypal… 

    58. A2 says:

      “It took me less than 2 minutes to set up an account and donate”

      If I don’t want to set up an account AT All it doesn’t matter how long it takes, I use Pay Pal for a reason.

      People on here are falling over themselves to donate but there are unnecessary obstacles. 

    59. Dcanmore says:

      Yeah, I was put off contributing because you have to set up an account beforehand, I much prefer Indiegogo. I really have to question YES Scotland for starting a fundraising campaign so close to Christmas (and the others too), I’ve worked with many marketing and PR people in my time and enthusiasm, instead of practical thought, usually gets the better of them. Also there is complacency, how often have I been made aware of the ‘300’ fundraiser from YES… once when it started then nothing. YES have to come up with new ways of getting their message out to the public, awareness is everything.

    60. Weedeochandorris says:

      Just made my donation using the link from X Sticks above.  Simple, straightforward and easy to use, no need to set up an account. Thank you X Sticks.  Here’s wishing Yes Scotland all the best for achieving their target. Would be a great Christmas present to see the sneer wiped of BT’S mugs!  Giant smiley.

    61. Anon Sailor says:

      Bella & Newsnet were simple enough to be fair but the Yes Scotland requiring a Bloom account is ridiculous, no way am I filling out mobile phone number etc. In an age where we need to protect our data we should be more careful.

      OT but the ScotGov app for information has unnecessary permissions that snoops on your other apps and web traffic. I removed them using a permission editor but the app crashed.

    62. Tattie-bogle says:

      I don’t know too much about this kind of thing but is it not a case of trying to be above board and beyond scrutiny. you guys would know more about it than me . we cant have AD saying Mugabe set up  a fake paypal and donated. like I said you guys will know more than I would

    63. Grant_M says:

      Finally managed to donate to Yes Scotland through that fundraiser, but they don’t make it Blooming easy.

      On registering, they insisted on having my mobile number, which I wasn’t prepared to give them, so I just entered an obvious invalid number.

      After creating an account, I still couldn’t go ahead and make a “promise” because the email address I signed up with was a different one from my PayPal one.

      Thankfully, got there in the end.

      It’s all the fault of the Scots government. Apparently.

    64. Dcanmore says:

      The recent load of cash from Tory donors received by BT is probably the result of Alistair Darling whoring himself around the dinner tables of Surrey.

    65. Vincent McDee says:

      And there was me thinking nothing ever surprise me anymore.
      MPs will take compulsory ‘honesty training’ to learn the difference between right and wrong

      Seminars will address accepting gifts and lobbying for outside interests
      Watchdog chairman Lord Bew says gut instinct is no longer acceptable
      The courses will be modelled on those taken by bankers and lawyers

      Read more:

    66. Donald Kerr says:

      People at Yes Scotland better start getting a thicker skin. You’re getting constructive critisism here so heed it. I’ve been on that Yes donate site 3 times and gave up on all occasions. I am not going to create an account and give some other company my life story. 
      I have donated to all 3 sites but I have reservations about News net and Bella asking fro 40k. It’s a lot if dosh.
      I have loss more to say but it’s not for a public forum. You know where I am. All constructive!

    67. a supporter says:

      we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options”,

      What does it mean?

    68. sneddon says:

      I don’t see why they need my contact details and FB stuff.  I am not happy doing this so not donating via this methoid. Prefer to do it via main YES site. When I buy a Big Issue the guy  selling me it doesn’t ask me for personal details.   I think the site chosen was designed by inexperienced designers with no grasp of customers or data protection principles especially in relation to what data is REALLY needed to undertake the purpose of transaction.

    69. balgayboy says:

      It is pretty decent of WOS to help out with highlighting these donation requests and the critique of the timing and the setting up of an account is reasonable.
      I have donated to all these mentioned and more and I follow the donation/promise progress and they are certainly struggling to meet the targets.
      I would reckon most donaters prefer the straightforward paypal means.

    70. Gayle says:

      @A2 I am very familiar with Wings since I am a regular on here and follow Wings on Twitter. I usually agree with most of what is said but on this I don’t. I stand by what I said as that is how it reads to me. 

      @Mogabee once you’ve set up your account type into the box at the top “Scottish Independence” and it’ll bring it up. Then put in your amount, click on one of the promises and click at the bottom of the page. (Sorry if someone has already answered you. I’m a slow typer.)

      @Anon You might get a quicker response if you DM Blair on Twitter or something. It seems a tad long to wait for answers.

    71. handclapping says:

      naebd is right; Yes Scotland has to make sure that any donation of £500 or more is from a UK elector or company, etc so they need to take name and address but they could make it easier for us poor herberts who aren’t into the world of high finance

      Bella and Newsnet dont have that need

    72. Weedeochandorris says:

      Here’s the link again. Sorry, should’ve included it.  Took 2 mins to do, simple.

    73. Old Dotch says:

      I thought I’d have a go at donating to the Yes campaign.  After the page (eventually) loaded, I hunted for a “Donate” button.  I couldn’t find it, so I assumed that I had to click on the link marked “visit project website”.  This took me to the Yes Scotland website where there is the opportunity to donate (it has a huge button marked “donate”).  Back at the Bloom site, I worked out that the “Make promise” button is what I should be pressing.  I have no idea why I should press a button to make a promise when what I wanted to do was make a donation. 

      Anyway, then I found myself confronted with having to create an account – I don’t know anyone who likes doing this – but I did it anyway.  After account created (where I couldn’t leave the mobile phone field blank – do you think I’m nuts? TIP: it accepts 00000000000, not actually my real number) I tried to donate to be told that before I do I would have to link my paypal account to the Bloom site. 

      The upshot of all of which is I have wasted 15 minutes of my morning and the campaign still don’t have my donation, or indeed promise.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    74. TJenny says:

      Just tried to donate to YES Scotland’s fund. Created a new account, got as far as message, ‘Please wait until we log you into your account’ – then nothing. No buffering, nothing. Tried to then use the log in to account – and got message ‘unable to log you in as you don’t have an account!’
      Might just give YESScot a ring to see if they can transfer payt into fund, otherwise, if it’s not via the fund, presumably it doesn’t count towards the target.

    75. FreddieThreepwood says:

      Sorry Rev,
      Tried my best but ten minutes of faffing about with a donation that became a ‘promise’, opening an account on Bloom only to be directed to PayPal (for which I already have an account) meaning I had to change the email address, followed by the apparent disappearance of my donation … then getting an email asking me to ‘subscribe to a list’ whatever the fuck that means and I have given up. Maybe Yes Scotland has my money, I have no idea.
      Be assured I have written to both Yes and Bloom to express my displeasure. I’ve also asked them exactly what they have against the English language. Are we practising a new slightly altered version for use in an independent Scotland?

    76. wee 162 says:

      @ G H Graham 10.19am
      I get all that. The point is that not spending money on offices doesn’t mean that everyone automatically gets better at communicating the message. The narrative in the media without the office would absolutely be “tinpot operation” “floundering campaign with a poky office” etc etc. It’s entirely possible to communicate clearly from pretty much anywhere (within reason) and it’s not the office space that is the issue.
      If the communications are bad (and they’re a bit vanilla for me fwiw) then that should be addressed. But it’s not spending money on reasonable office accomodation which is causing it to be bad.

    77. A2 says:

      “I noticed the other day that Better Together is awash with money and that pretty much all of it comes from Tory sources and a hefty amount from prople who don’t actually live in Scotland.”

      Yet Naughty Blair is still sending out messages asking for donations stating how well funded the yes campaign is.  The one good thing is that if he starts carping about yes not making funding targets he’ll obviously be contradicting himself publicly.

    78. haartime says:

      Gayle, Amanda
      I am particularly miffed by Bloom. I have used 3 different email addresses and two different computers to set up an account and none allow me to login. I do not have any more emails to try. The whole experience of using Bloom has been one of frustration and aggravation, wasted time and effort and I really do want to donate to the campaign.

      Please do take notice of all the feedback on this comment thread. Politically it is important for YesScotland to do well in public campaigns. By using your platform they have failed. You have to take some responsibility for this.

      Like other people on this thread I want the donation process to be as easy possible and to just click a button that says PayPal. I do not like setting up accounts for a one use but I was willing to do it.

      I am not person who would normally complain about poor customer service, accepting that people and things don’t always work as well they ought. But this is important to the independence movement and I am afraid you have let us and YesScotland down very badly.

    79. yerkitbreeks says:

      I’m not enjoying this – think I’ll give it all a break for a few days

    80. desimond says:

      Regards Shawlands Campaigning 

      There is the YES Cathcart group which covers around that area…meets over at Battlefield Rest next to Victoria Infirmary for Sunday leafletting?

      Contact Kirsty MacAlpine, Secretary – Cathcart SNP on rapportmail+29173 [at] snp [dot] org

    81. Anon Sailor says:

      Gayle, I’ve asked both Blair McDougal and Alistair Carmichael for a live debate with a War Vet, I assume by their silence for weeks now that they’re afraid. Back on topic – anyone tried Bitcoin? Its fast,easy and #anonymous

    82. ronnie anderson says:

      Well that lot of posts this morning puts a different slant on the DOUR MEAN POOR SCOTS ,Canna gie oor money away easily FFS, where theres a will theres a way, where theres a hill theres a brae, Git fkin er it, WE RE AWE IN IT THEGITHER, COFFEE,S all roon nae umpire bisquits

    83. handclapping says:

      Lets celebrate when things go right. My “Scotland’s Future” has arrived. My name was wrong, the address was wrong, the Post Code was wrong and my postie is Polish. Well done the low tech, people centred Royal Mail

    84. A2 says:

      Craig P says:
      Regarding Scottish companies, I have had a similar issue with Scottish web providers. It works out so much cheaper to have my sites hosted abroad or in rUK. (I did initially have hosting with one Livingston-based provider, but they were bought over by Webfusion).”

      Who subsequently got taken over by Heart and what a pita it is given that they lock ftp based on Ip address which BT love to change at random times. humph… 

      at least there support people are more helpful than xcalibre’s were.

    85. I set up a Bloom account, went to pledge and was told I had to go back to put in my official paypal address (even though that wasn’t on the original sign up screen)

      Having done that there was no route back to the pledge page and searching for YES Scotland did not bring it up. I had to come all the way back here for the link.

      When I pledged I was taken to PayPal where it said

      <b>Maximum number of payments: 2</b>

      wtf . . . I pledged one pledge, not two. I cancelled. I will buy some more merchandise if I want to contribute.

      I pay and donate online all the time using all sorts of sites and systems and this is definitely one of the WORST I have ever come across. If YES don’t have the gumption to take note of this and set something better up then hell mend them. It might be OK for large donations, but if you want to throw tenor twenty quid into the bucket then this is totally inappropriate.

    86. Albert Herring says:

      Sorry, but we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the wallet gateway options.

    87. wee 162 says:

      @Gayle 10:34am
      It’s a week before Christmas. People are busy. And it might take you a couple of minutes, but not everyone is entirely au fait with setting up stuff online. A lot of folk are a bit suspect about giving every single bit of their life history online (a justifiable response to the news re data privacy and its abuses over the last few years). You make it as easy as possible. You give people as much control over where their money is going as possible whilst still fulfilling the aims of the fundraising.
      People need to remember these things are about a collective of diverse  people, not just themselves. Folk on here are engaged with the debate as can be seen by the fact they’re already on here. Folk on here are au fait with at least a bit of the internet (as evidenced once again by the fact that they’re on here). Folk on here are much much more likely to be donating to these things than the general public (see the previous fundraising by the rev). If there’s resistance to it here (and I’m not sure it’s resistance so much as thinking it’s a pain in the hole) then what do you think happens with the general public.
      Put it this way, I’ve gave up on doing something online at various points due to not wanting to spend my life filling in forms. I’m a season ticket holder at Easter Road but only registered for their online account (which had been running for at least 6 years) last season because I needed to do something quickly and couldn’t get through on the phone and couldn’t just pop round to the ticket office which is a 10 minute walk from my house at that point. That wasn’t due to me developing neo-ludditeism it was due to their system being crap and me not bothering to try and sign up for it having failed to do so twice about 6 years beforehand…
      Make it as easy as possible. Or you lose money you could have got. The likes of Amazon do one-click ordering because they know that every additional press of a button means they lose sales.

    88. mogabee says:

      Thanks Gayle. Tried to do as you suggest but not getting redirected. Nowhere to put any amount 🙁
      Given up at the moment, will try later.

    89. balgayboy says:

      anyone tried Bitcoin?
      Sounds to close to BTcoin!

    90. Doug Daniel says:

      That’s weird, I remember being put off donating to the Yes Scotland one originally because it was asking for too much information. However, I’ve just tried again, and it’s worked. Hmmm.
      Right, I’m going to sound like an arsehole here, but I think this needs to be said. My main problem is that people are getting a bit unrealistic about how much money can be raised through these fundraisers. These three together add up to almost £100,000 being asked of independence supporters in the run up to Christmas – that’s just daft.
      The ease in which some of the earlier fundraisers reached their targets has clearly set people’s expectations too high, and also made people think “online fundraiser = easy money”. People need to remind themselves of the story of the goose that laid golden eggs. It should have been blatantly obvious to everyone from the way the Scotland Yet and Common Weal fundraisers practically hobbled over the line that we were getting to the limit of how much could be raised through online fundraisers – and those were two of the most vital projects connected to the independence campaign. And yet, just as we’re getting to that limit, we have three campaigns trying to get a total of £95,000 – utter madness.
      Stu’s fundraiser was clear – we were paying for a journalist to make the site his full-time job for a year. That justified the size of the fundraiser – it was a man’s salary for a year. Subsequent WOS fundraisers have similarly been quite clear about why a certain amount of money was being asked for.
      I’m not sure why £40,000 is the amount being asked for in the above fundraisers. There’s no justification for £40,000 rather than £30,000 or £20,000. Newsnet’s one is particularly problematic here – it would have been fairly straight-forward to use examples to justify the £40,000, such as the cost of producing the leaflets mentioned, how much they need to commission work from professionals (and perhaps an idea of whom these professionals are), and how much the videos cost to make.
      Perhaps the biggest problem is it’s unclear if the £40,000 is intended to fund the Duggy Dug films, or if they will continue to be funded through individual fundraisers. I think the Duggy Dug thing is well-meant but ultimately an expensive mistake – children can’t vote, and adults aren’t going to be convinced by a cartoon dog. I’m not prepared to fund that pish. And the other examples of films I’ve seen from Newsnet are not the kind of thing I would be sharing to convince people to vote Yes.
      It would be nice if the three campaigns didn’t fail, but it might be the only way to get people to take a step back and think “hold on, we can’t just keep setting up fundraisers willy-nilly.”

      (And if Yes Scotland are going to start setting up fundraisers, I’ll just go and cancel my monthly £100 direct debit.)

    91. As someone else has pointed out, these are all net-savvy people on here desperate to contribute, and it looks as though over 50% of them are failing or giving up.
      YES really do need to take this on board and do something about it ASAP instead of getting all precious because we are all on the same side. I am not suggesting that YES need a Malcolm Tucker, but any and all of us who are working away to achieve a YES vote next year need to be prepared to take some criticism if there is any  way we could do things better.

    92. FreddieThreepwood says:

      I’ve just been told that my donation – sorry, promise – has probably failed. No idea why but apparently, for a wee while at least, I was ‘part of the Bloom community’.

      I am about to throw this computer at the wall and perhaps use a warm word or two. I’ll be back in touch once I’ve bought a new laptop. Cheerio.

    93. Douglas Guy says:

      Craig Stewart says: 

      Everyone needs to take a step back and chill.
      This is the internet, dood.  If we want to get heated about annoying pish we will and there isn’t anything you can do to stop us. The official Yes campaign so far is clueless and if you don’t like to hear that, skip to the next comment. The amateurism on our side is what is most likely to lose this for us. After the EU elections we are going to get worked over by professional media management funded by those millions. If this was a level playing field we’d win by a mile.  But if this was a level playing field most of us wouldn’t be so keen on independence in the first place.  

    94. John Gibson says:

      we are restricted by the existing financial infrastructure in the payment gateway options

      Agree with ‘a supporter’ above, please spare us from this sort of management-speak gobbledegook.

    95. Gary Hunter says:

      Rev Stu
      It might be politic to remote Gordon Baxters image. He died earlier this Year. His daughter now runs the firm and has given support to the SNP.

    96. scotchwoman says:

      Ideal or not, YES needs support. Just donated and it was no more annoying than having to create a BBC account to vote for Andy Murray last night.

    97. ronnie anderson says:

      Mc Ternan on daily politics bbc 2

    98. Gayle says:

      @Haartime, it’s not my platform. I’m just a regular person who used it to donate to YES Scotland. Not sure why you had the problems logging in as it should have taken your paypal email (assuming you have one) without any fuss.

    99. Alan Mackintosh says:

      I cant help but feel that the bloom approach is wrong for this fundraising. I had a look round it and it has the premise that only if the total amount is reached will the monies be collected and passed on. The reasoning for this is so that projects wont be half funded and thereby doomed to fail. But Yes Scotland is an existing project and is not reliant upon the total being reached before starting. Should the target not be reached then none of the funds promised will be transferred which seems daft. Then they would have to start all over again. Far better to get the money straight away than rely on a trigger point being reached. Suppose they fail on 14.9K, everybody who has promised will have to do the whole thng again. Much easier to have a link to a direct paypal thingy

    100. @scotchwoman
      Glad you were able to contribute. However, I feel you are missing the point a bit.

      As others have pointed out, it is very wellevidenced that on the web every extra click or box to fill in  loses you another chunk of purchasers/donors.

      I assume YES Scotland are trying to get donations from as many people as possible, not just the diehards who will spend as long as it takes to get through the cyber-b/s. In which case they should be grateful for the feedback.

      If YES Scotland are listening – something I do worry about – then this could be one of the most helpful comment threads on here for a while.

    101. wee 162 says:

      @ Doug Daniel 11:47
      Aye, tell people what exactly they are getting for their money. If they like it enough they’ll fund it. If they don’t, then perhaps you need to look at what you’re attempting to fund if you can’t even persuade those who agree with you in principle to spend the money to do so… You know like the Rev does on here and is wildly successful with… You engage people, you are raising money to do something worthwhile, you’re transparent, and you make it easy for people to give you money.

    102. handclapping says:

      I think the Rev may be being a bit harsh on Yes Scotland. It seems as if they cannot prove that £500 or more came from an elector they have to hand it back so making it a pledge so they can check first is probably a good idea.
      What is interesting is that as far as I can see if they got the traditional Glasgow brown envelope with £1000 in it the money would end up in the coffers of the Electoral Commission!

    103. Murray McCallum says:

      I managed to make a promise on the Yes Scotland via Bloom fundraiser. I was originally put off by the steps to create two accounts. However, it did only take a few minutes (and I am pretty hopeless on websites and seemed to go round in a circle a few times – but it is worth it).
      I will not have moved to Scotland in time for the referendum so donations, encouragement, complaints to media, etc are about it for me. I think the grass roots community programme will be vital in 2014, especially if they now arm themselves with simple bullet points from ‘Scotland’s Future’.

    104. haartime says:

      Never ever got to a PayPal screen. 3 different browsers used as well as the email accounts and computers. It just hangs at the login in to your account after registering. From sounds of other people’s experiences it maybe because I did not enter a telephone number but none of the fields said they were compulsory to fill in and I will not enter a phone number for no apparent reason.

      Sorry if I misunderstood your position but sounded as though you well from Yes Scotland. Have tweeted my experience to them and filled the contact form on Bloom. Seemed to hit an announced word limit there too. More frustration.

      Admirable that Yes Scotland want to support a Scottish business but the thing has to work. I am also a savvyish internet user and it makes me feel pretty stupid when I can’t get things to work and basically it isn’t my fault.

    105. scotchwoman says:

      @ Scots Renewables
      Agree with all that but we are where we are on this fundraiser and it needs to hit the target. That whole BT funding story was designed to undermine YES by suggesting the establishment is fully in control and that resistance is futile. If we can’t raise £15k we really are stuffed.
      Lessons need to be learned – after the target is reached.

    106. dan777a says:

      was able to donate but it wasn’t ideal. Too much back and forth between them and paypal plus setting up an account required way too much personal info. I normally i don’t like to give too much information about myself  to anyone online but made an exception with this as its for independence.

      not sure i’ll be able to donate to either Bella or Newsnet but made yes my priority.

      Agree with Doug about the Duggy Dug being a load of cringe worthy pish. It has kind of put me off donating to Newsnet so Bella will probably get the cash if i can rustle any up from behind the back of the sofa!

    107. TJenny says:

      OK – ’cause of probs with Bloom, just made a payt of £30 to YES Scotand via Paypal.
      As this payt didn’t go via Bloom directly into the fund, is there any YESScot folk reading this that can confirm whether it will be included in the fund total?  Otherwise, fund could show underfunding, but actual funding for YES increased, but outwith the ‘fund’ total.

    108. GP Walrus says:

      Long term we really need a robust, integrated subscription platform for a free press. However, I support the donate-some-amount-to-something-you-value-despite-the-difficulty line.

    109. Breastplate says:

      I can’t donate on the Bloom page to Yes Scotland because apparently my email address is in the wrong format, it is not. The other 2 were perfectly easy to donate to.

      The process has left me more than frustrated and the Yes fundraiser out of pocket. I have no idea how that can be considered good enough.

      I see these monies as less of a donation and more of an investment in my country, we really shouldn’t have a hassle doing it.

    110. squarego says:

      Every customer complaint or criticism is a valuable opportunity to make an improvement. I would hope that these perfectly valid points above would be taken on board. Everybody on this site has given and will continue to give time and money to the cause. All we ask is that you allow us to do so in the most straightforward way. 

    111. Morag says:

      At the very start of all this I set up a monthly standing order to the SNP specifically for the referendum campaign.  When Yes Scotland was launched I matched that, setting up the identical amount to that organisation as well.  Each time I figured out how much I would end up donating by the time of the referendum and it came to quite a respectable sum.
      I decided to do it that way so that it was in my monthly budget and to save me having to consider each and every fundraising initiative as it was launched.  So sorry but that’s it.  I want this to succeed as much as anyone, but I budgeted a substantial sum of money right at the start.  Yes Scotland is getting that, every month, right on time.  It’s not my problem if someone decided they wanted to set up a completely different fund with its own target, and potentially create a rod for their own backs.
      Call my regular contributions in the relevant month or months part of the appeal.  That’s why I did it.  If you can’t do that, don’t come whining to me for more money.  Especially not when you still want me to pay for pens and badges and car stickers.

    112. pa_broon74 says:

      What everyone else has said.
      Bit of a faff and this pre-approval of donations via Paypal is not on at all, it says its limited to 2 donations to Bloom VC, what’s that all about? I only want to make one.
      Signed up (their server is quite slow.) The problem seems to be, you fill out all the boxes (which as mentioned, is a pain) but it doesn’t ask for a Paypal email – its only when you go to pledge, an error message appears at the bottom of that page, the only remedy takes you away from the Yes Scotland campaign page then leads you on a wild goose chase around what seems to be an internet version of one of those multi-option phone systems. (Obvious fix, add the ‘add paypal email address’ step into the initial sign up process.)
      I donated £5 – or £10 if they take advantage of the two payments I was made to pre-approve. More angry about that than anything else, it’s just taking the piss.

    113. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Just had a look at the yes scotland website and you can use payapl on there, as well as other things. I noticed they have conditions such as;

      “If you are not on an Electoral Register in Scotland we will not be able to accept more than £500 in total from you.

      – If you donate more than £7,500 in a year, your name and the total amount of your donation/s will need to be made public.”

      I presume the reason for the first condition is to avoid undue influence from outwith the country. How does this relate to BT donations? given the last couple of days with the huge donations from the tory types?

    114. wee 162 says:

      @Alan Mackintosh
      The point of setting the limit is twofold in kickstarter projects which is what this sort of funding is like. As you say there tends to be an amount needed to create something concrete, but just relying on general donations doesn’t enage people as much as “reach the target or we don’t get anything and it stops”. It works brilliantly for savvy PR game designers with concepts etc (as it has with the Rev for his commissioning of polling). For amorphous stuff like the Yes campaign is doing “for community yes campaigns” I don’t think it is particularly useful tbh.

    115. Bob the Dug says:

      @Amanda said “As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.  They’ve served us, and the nearly 300 projects who’ve used the site, well.”

      BUT, they have not served me well – after three attempts to donate via this Bloom lot, I have given up. Thanks to the people who decided on this method of donating, Yes Scotland shall no longer be receiving my donation, instead I have given the funds to those who have made it easy for me to donate.

      Heads should roll for this fiasco!

    116. Jingly Jangly says:

      My copy of Scotland’s Future just arrived, just as well I finished a Harry Potter book last night!!!! That’s me ten years behind on my book reading bought that book in 2003 ,hopefully I will have made my way through Scotland’s future before Sept 14.

    117. Charles Docherty says:

      I only donate by sending a cheque.  I will not set up an online account.

    118. pa_broon74 says:

      PS: If get one single text message or phone call on my mobile as a result of providing it to Bloom VC, I’ll be exceptionally miffed.
      Totally fucking sick of answering calls featuring a recorded message or some poor call centre soul offering to reclaim any PPI I may have had when my religion forbids me from having credit.*
      * I don’t have a religion as such, but it gets them off the phone very quickly – especially if you go on to try and convert them.

    119. squarego says:

      Also, if anyone from Yes Scotland is reading this page, I have on three occasions offered the voluntary services of two qualified, professional writers (one a former press officer with an international charity) to help with your poorly written, poorly edited website. No response to date. There is an army of people willing and able to take this campaign forward, don’t ignore us. We’d rather do this with you.

    120. pa_broon74 says:

      One other thing about the Bloom VC site, you can’t unsubscribe from their mailing list, you can untick the box but it doesn’t save the preference, if you refresh or revisit the page, the box comes back ticked.
      Not good at all, more crap for the junk email folder.

    121. HandandShrimp says:

      Better Together know that if they were to limit their funding to Scotland for donations over £500 they would be meeting in a garden shed in Possil. Without Tory money there would be no Better Together. Darling and Co are bought and sold for Tory gold.   

    122. pa_broon74 says:

      Sorry, last message on this…
      Two things, first – in the privacy policy, it says users are responsible for specifying whether or not personal details can be passed on by Bloom to ‘others’ – yet – there doesn’t seem to be anything any where to make that specification.
      Secondly, if you change your mind and want to cancel the pledge you’ve made, you have to click a button (via ‘my promises’ link) labelled “Break Promise.”
      Its a pain to sign up, a pain to donate and if you change your mind you’re labelled dishonest.
      Harsh, very harsh.

    123. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It might be politic to remote Gordon Baxters image. He died earlier this Year.”

      I’m pretty sure he was already dead when we did that image the first time.

    124. AnneDon says:

      The Bloom site is awful. I wanted to donate today because I have money today – my employment isn’t regular enough for me to donate in advance!
      I went to the Yes site and donated there instead.
      Yes should have used indiegogo like everyone else – we can hand over the money, and they receive it! Bloom even demanded a mobile number from me!

    125. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As this payt didn’t go via Bloom directly into the fund, is there any YESScot folk reading this that can confirm whether it will be included in the fund total?”

      It won’t be, no.

    126. Charles Docherty says:

      Also – too many people want my money!!!

      Yes Scotland is the official YES organisation so in my mind is the most needed.  

      They need my dosh to produce the campaigning literature/goods for all the volunteers to distribute.  There again I have my local SNP Branch needing donations to actually purchase the Yes Scotland literature/goods and also the SNP HQ {they also want my money}literature.  Also locally is the Yes Scotland groups needing assistance too,

      Then we have the multitude of internet pro indy sites seeking donations to help them continue. But in my opinion the internet sites whilst very good for committed activists they do not have much in the way of traffic from the Don’t Knows and antis.

      This is why I concentrate on donating to getting the literature to get delivered/handed out to the general public who we have to convert.

      Sorry for my long rant.

    127. X_Sticks says:

      I’d just like to say thank you to Rev Stu. You have to be respected for trying to help other pro-independence sites in their fund raising. Kudos to you sir, <doffing hat and smiley thingy>.
      To all those who have had difficulty in donating to Yes Scotland I’d just like you to remember this:
      Life isn’t always easy. Often the best things that come to us are those we have had to fight for. Independence is one of those things. A little bit of online hassle shouldn’t be enough to put any of us off. You can donate to Yes Scotland easily here:

    128. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It seems as if they cannot prove that £500 or more came from an elector they have to hand it back”

      No. That’s a purely self-imposed rule. If someone in Outer Mongolia sent them a cheque for £5 million, they’d be perfectly at liberty to keep it if they wanted to.

    129. AnneDon says:

      Re the comment about the nice office – remember, although the MSM in this country ignore Yes, there are journalists, tv news companies, and radio journalists from all over the world knocking on their door. They need to be somewhere central and respectable!
      When I was there earlier this year, though, Glasgow Council won’t let them put up a sign to say who they are. Don’t know if that’s changed yet. Whodathunkit?

    130. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I think the Duggy Dug thing is well-meant but ultimately an expensive mistake”

      I can’t speak for Newsnet, but I got the impression from the wording they used last time that the third one was the final one.

    131. Les Wilson says:

      Guys let us just do what we can do, if it takes a few minutes of your time, what does it matter. Let us just get our donations, whatever they are, to wherever we are sending them. They all need our support so let us wipe the grin from the face of BT. 
      Of course the more user friendly the better and easier to it will be to donate, but let us do it now and I am sure someone will take heed, given the concerns that our comments have expressed.
      Rev, sympathies, damned if you do, damned if you don’t !

    132. Chickenhawk 2 says:

      As others have said, making, or trying to make a donation to Bloom/Yes was a real pain in the ar**.
      I tried initially, looking at what was on screen and gave up. Later, tried again, details, back to where I started, once again,  get to paypal, and as Scots Renewables said @ 16 December, 2013 at 11:43 am, max. no.of payments, 2. WTF. Go to paypal account to check if there are 2 payments set up. Zilch.
      Back to Bloom and the whole rigmarole again. Damned near gave up. So now we have to wait to see if it makes it’s target, and it don’t look good.
      Re the Yes premises, I was in talking to one of the guys a few weeks ago, turned out he was taking a year off uni for this. But he was just a more educated me. What I did notice was the Great and Good coming in, down the ramp and being swept into the inner sanctum. Door locked behind them. No hoi poloi for them. That is how it felt to me. But I may have an inferiority complex.
      Newsnet, they want your money, but are pretty sniffy about who can post after an article. Damned few, I’m not saying I’m R L Stevenson, but when OBE gets a look-in, Jesus Christ. It’s making me think twice about giving, or is that petty. that’ll be an Aye then, probably.

    133. gardennat says:

      I delivered 200 newspapers this morning(starting at 7.30)because for some reason it gives me a boost and puts me in a good mood for the rest of the day.Came home and started to read WoS while having my breakfast. I have already given to the Newsnet appeal but I had forgotten about the YES one. I have tried to donate this morning but have only succeeded in registering with the site. I have given out details I didn’t particularly want to share, and all to no avail.How much money must YES have lost through this fiasco.
      My mood is now far from placid and I suppose the only way I can lift it again is by delivering some more papers this afternoon.

    134. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “we cant have AD saying Mugabe set up a fake paypal and donated”

      After Ian Taylor, I don’t think the No camp EVER gets to question the standing of a Yes donor.

    135. Neil MacKenzie says:

      £30 paid to Yes via Bloom despite needing to register. Bella & NNS will receive all monies paid so I’ll donate to them after New Year.

    136. TJenny says:

      Rev – thanks for confirming that my donation wont go into the crowdfund.
      I’ve sent YESScotland an email asking if there is any way that my payment can be transferred by them into fund. Mentioned this article and probs folk have encountered trying to use Bloom and why not just use Paypal, and that whilst they may see a wee surge in their donations, they wont be accruing to the crowdfund.  Will wait and see if/what YESScotland reply.

    137. Taranaich says:

      I’d like to share a story with you all, if you’ll indulge me: it’s related to the post, but the talk of how money is tight has hit a nerve of sorts.
      My wee niece was in a local school/church choir concert, held at a local church. It’s been a while since I went to church  (though I have special dispensation from the monsignor, I guess I’m holy enough to formulate a sort of “church bubble” around myself), but I went to support my niece and family. We all had a lovely time playing heads shoulders knees & toes as we variously knelt, sat and stood according to the liturgical calendar, and it was nice and warm. But at the end, the canon announced that there would be a collection for the local food bank.
      My heart absolutely sank. See, I despise the very idea of food banks. Not because of the charity, of course, but because I firmly believe it feeds into the sinister neo-Victorian agenda of the Tories – “the poor are too stupid or feckless to spend their money on food, so they’ll jolly well take what they’re given, the sods.” It’s demeaning, and I refuse to participate in it. Yet faced with going out the door as people are putting so much money in – I saw several tenners, and this wasn’t a particularly affluent part of Scotland – I was momentarily stricken with guilt. I’d read up on food banks, I’d seen pictures, I’d seen people collecting up at Glasgow and Edinburgh – but it’s something else to realise that your home, the place where you live, is just as stricken. The last time I felt such a shudder was seeing a picture of my town during World War II, taken from across the Clyde. It was engulfed in flames – the entire town was a bonfire. My family and people I knew lived there, in that raging inferno. And now my family and people I know live in a town that needs a food bank.
      I’m not rich myself, but I always took great pride in never finding myself in debt, though it took a great deal of work and commitment to ensure that. I wanted to make sure that, if nothing else, I had a few hundred pounds available for emergencies at all times. My family and friends already have incredible financial strain pressed upon them by the evil legislation of both Conservative and New Labour governments, and from a young age, I was determined to make sure they wouldn’t worry about me.
      Turns out, I’ve gotten myself into a pickle. As I said, I’m very frugal and careful with money, but I made an obscenely expensive purchase as a future investment: since I plan on becoming a full-time artist, I decided to upgrade my computer. Unfortunately, this coincided with several health concerns and new legal issues (benefits have been slashed left and right), so I found myself running out of money extremely quickly. I’m still in the black, but I’ve found I simply cannot afford several things which I had done every year. I can’t get the Christmas presents the children in my family want (none of us can, especially given PS4 games are £60 ferchrissakes), I might not be able to afford several things even in the coming year. And at the same time, I’ve become hugely involved in the independence movement, and donated several times to several causes in person (I don’t have PayPal due to issues with the scoundrels at RBS even though I left them several years ago). Every time I’m out in the town, I make sure I have some change just to drop into collection buckets – to ensure that some money is going there, no matter how little.
      So, back to the collection plate. I’d always complained about the likes of Douglas Alexander’s “solidarity,” where they extol the virtues of doing good while not promising, let alone making, any practical changes for the better. Was I falling victim to that? Is my hatred of the nature and causes of food banks any better than voting No because I’d rather try and save the people of England too? At the end of it all, I didn’t put any money in the tin. What I did do was carry on as usual: giving money to the registered charities, doing voluntary work, and spreading the word of Yes.
      At the end of the day, food banks are treating the symptoms rather than the cause: as long as the Neo-Liberal Triumverate crack down on welfare, people will be going to food banks. I’m not going to pour my money away putting a bucket under a leak in the dam: I’m going to save up for cement. Others have the generosity and means to give to food banks, and I appreciate the gesture of charity. But at the end of the day, I just feel it’s continuing to enable the Neo-Liberals. They thrive on this, they rely on the charity of the lower classes to look after each other, so that they don’t have to worry about losing any of their precious capital, no matter how little of their money would make such a great difference. They’re using basic human decency – altruism and charity – as a weapon against us, as a means to prop up their neofeudal society. I’m not playing the game. I help the needy my way, in a way that doesn’t play into perpetuating a despicable stereotype, in a way that’s meaningful.
      So the question is, what can I do? It tears me up that I cannot give money to Wings, Bella, Newsnet and other places, as much due to bureaucratic nonsense as to lack of funds. I try to bring up these sites in personal conversation every chance I get, but it isn’t as good as hard cash. But what I can do is join their cause. So all my money, time and energy has gone into Bannockburn, because comics is what I’m good at, and it’s the way I can make my voice heard. Just a few weeks ago, I had my first stall at a local market, where I sold some of my work. I proved to myself I could do it. And Bannockburn is about more than just the current movement for independence, but my feelings on socialism, the responsibility of the strong to aid the vulnerable, the sovereignty of the people, and whatnot. It applies equally to the UK as it does to Scotland: it just so happens independence is the route I believe to be the best in order to reach that goal.
      Anyway, hope I didn’t bore or annoy you all. Rev, I have zero problems with you posting links to collections, as it is a reminder of why we fight. The reason Newsnet, Bella etc need donations is precisely because our country’s twisted economy makes it necessary to rely on the charity of those who are is just as much of a mess as we are.
      As you said on Twitter, this is why we fight.

    138. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Taranaich –
      Great comment, should be made into a post.
      More power to ye mister.

    139. Jingly Jangly says:

      Can you buy Bannockburn online?

    140. Grant_M says:

      It’s two because your donation is broken into two payments – Bloom take 5%.

    141. sneddon says:

      Les Wilson -it’s not the time it takes that I object to, it’s the level of detail they are asking for. As far as I’m concerend its over the top for a campaign donation site.  I’d  rather donate via the main YES site than the Bloom site as the level of personal details (mobile phone number FFS)they are asking for smacks of data fishing.  I can understand in cases of 500 plus pound donations you have to verify the person who is doing the donating, but that’s easily done.  There are so many ways they could have done it but it seems their marketing enthusism got the better of them and they forgot the golden rule when asking people for money keep it simple  YES could have saved time, got more money and goodwill by organising the set up so that people can contribute to this campaign via the YES website as an alternative to Bloom.

    142. wee 162 says:

      I admire the people putting their time and effort into setting up and running food banks. But they absolutely shouldn’t exist. In one of the most affluent countries in the world they’re an abomination. It’s the political and economic system we’re living under which causes this.

    143. Jamie Arriere says:

      I think the Bloom account is one of the little initiative tests in our population’s quest to govern itself. I have to say, some of you are a pathetic lot!
      Oh dear, maybe we can’t run a country ourselves then after all… 🙂

    144. David Martin says:

      While I agree with the contributors in principle, none of us will want to think “I could have done more” on the 19th if it is a NO.

    145. Les Wilson says:

      Tried YES, it is a pain, however as posted by X_tricks here already it is much easier here  I think this is what people want and it is simple to use.

    146. Fergie 35 says:

      It is worrying reading the comments about the Yes Scotland campaign and training staff being clueless and without a strategy.

      I’ve donated more than £2k to the Yes Scotland so far, I’ fairly low paid, so I hope the leadership at the top grabs the bull by the horns to get them on track!

    147. Les Wilson says:

      Acknowledged, and that is exactly what I have done and reiterated the link in previous post.

    148. Jamie Arriere says:

      Fine Les, so everyone bypasses the Bloom site, the Yes campaign is publicly shown to fail to reach a target, and all of us who have pledged, have to donate again.

    149. Chris says:

      I tried to donate to the Yes Scotland 300 crowd on two occasions. I even got as far as setting up a bloom account and restarting my Paypal. I could not get it to work so set up a DD to Yes Scotland instead. They really need to make it easier if they want to crowd fund. It will be a shame if there is negative publicity over a failure to raise £30,000!

    150. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Next year I shall invest man-hours not cash for the Cause.”

      A resource every bit as precious as money, if not more.

    151. muttley79 says:

      Doug Daniel’s post at 11:47 sums it up for me.  I won’t bother responding in detail as it is an accurate summary of the situation.  There have been far too many internet fundraisers from the Yes side.  I suspect the SNP will see the Yes campaign over the £30,000 mark.  I think it has to be done in a more co-ordinated way.  I also believe that people might be better getting more involved in the Yes campaign next year in non internet activities (I include myself in that).  I fear that it can be a bit of an echo chamber on here and in other independence websites. 

    152. Breastplate says:

      Eventually got my donation through to Yes using Bloom so that it is added to the fundraiser.

      Out of the three, Charles Docherty is right about Yes being the one that needs to succeed the most for fear of giving the No mob unnecessary ammunition.

      Strategically, they shouldn’t be putting themselves in that position in my opinion.

      I agree with Doug Daniel about the size of the sum the other 2 are looking for to be excessive but then again if they fail it won’t be used as a stick to beat Yes Scotland with.

    153. Indy_Scot says:

      Sorry if this has been answered, but is there any way to add to the Yes 300 crowd fund other than going through Bloom.

    154. As far as I can work out, Amanda Boyle (who’s been defending Yes Scotland’s fundraiser above) is the CEO of Bloom, so of course she would be standing up for it.  Is this fundraiser just a normal business transaction for Bloom, or are they giving Yes Scotland a favourable deal?

    155. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Sorry if this has been answered, but is there any way to add to the Yes 300 crowd fund other than going through Bloom.”

      No. That’s a Bloom project. You can donate to Yes Scotland separately, but it won’t show up in the “300 Crowd” total.

    156. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Fine Les, so everyone bypasses the Bloom site, the Yes campaign is publicly shown to fail to reach a target”

      If the SNP allows that to happen if the target hasn’t been reached by the last 24 hours, then everyone concerned on all sides needs shooting.

      Meanwhile, angrily lecturing willing donors about how they need to buck their ideas up and endure a whole load of totally unnecessary palaver and hand over all their personal details in order to be allowed to give money is rarely a good way to get anyone onside.

    157. Les Wilson says:

      Jamie Arriere says:
      Well I suppose it IS the chance you take, but I would still make it both ways, it is urgent. But no doubt, there are lessons to be learned, and I completely understand your view, but I think these are exceptional circumstances but you can only do what you are happy with.

    158. Cath says:

      “Perhaps a wee unit in Easterhouse or Shettleston or even Thornliebank (possibly all 3 given the price of city centre realestate!) would have made more sense what with them being right at the heart of the communities that will make this happen?”
      That’s precisely what all the local groups are for though, which this crowd-sourcing is supposed to help fund. Locally there are meetings going on all the time in church halls and other local venues right across Scotland. There are leaflets and papers being delivered, and people trying to drum up support, knock doors and run a genuine grassroots campaign, with varying levels of success. In places like Easterhouse I have a feeling campaigns like the RIC one are making much better running than the Yes one itself but it’s the same kind of thing – grassroots activity for independence.
      Ideally, by next year I imagine at least some of those groups will be big enough to have wee shopfronts within local communities – I think a handful already do. But that is an expensive thing for wee local groups to do. Even hiring local church halls costs, a cost generally borne by the committed activists or by taking donations (which is still a risk to those setting up the event).
      The head office helps co-ordinate all that, develop materials and deals with the media and, I guess, speaks to “opinion formers” and that kind of thing while the rest of us knock doors.
      So check out where your local group is and go along and give them a hand – that’s mostly what  “the grassroots yes campaign” is, not the office on Hope Street.

    159. john king says:

      Anyone notice the Scottish Sun has done a pretty good demolition job on the OBR and   Darling? not shabby at all.

    160. Appleby says:

      “innovative, pioneering startup”
      I can’t stand this kind of guff. It reeks of BS. OLD RECYLED BS at that. Do people not speak like human beings any more, but like cheesy old pamphlets instead? Especially here of all places. This isn’t Dragons Den or a board room where you have to bluff your way through with gibberish in place of real ability and knowledge. It screams “LIAR LIAR LIAR” as soon as I hear it as I know only fibbers and pocket-dippers use that sort of language. I’ve dealt with enough salesmen and people begging for a slice of the company pie to have heard it all before and many years ago. Even years ago it wasn’t particularly orginal. Dilbert was parodying it in the 90s.
      Bloom is a turd, a blight on the fund raiser landscape. Extremely clumsy and it demands private information that is none of their bloody business. I do not want calls or texts on my mobile from Bloom. Ever. I’ve been donating to campaigns regularly, but making it even more difficult is so stupid. Imagine if you were collecting with a tin but when someone went to put a tenner in it you demanded they show you a gas bill and their birth certificate and do a jig before you’d let them put the money in? At least the weight of the tin wouldn’t be a burden on the wrist that way.
      Any fund raiser should be as easy as popping money in the average tin. I should be able to do it on the spur of the moment. Rev has a system that works very well and I don’t see why it couldn’t be copied. It can be regular donation or a random tenner and takes less than a minute for both and it doesn’t require me to give my shoe size and a copy of my fingerprints for Rev’s archives or my phone number so he can call up at night and breathe heavily on the phone (I had to give him it specially to arrange that).
      They’ve a much better system than the Bloom one here:
      That is the one people should donate to and what I’d give to. That way the money all goes to them without some clumsy middle men scooping out another cut with a shoddy knock-off version of Kickstarter, etc. Why they need a separate (or should that be independent?) 15 grand there from the rest of the donation system is a mystery too. Never explained. Bloom is so bad that the only comments from real people on the Bloom funding campaign there are complaining about how bad the whole system is and how it should be replaced with something else!

      The others really need to make it clear what that specially raised portion of money is being used for too or basic sums offered to show how they arrived at these figures requested. Otherwise they could be taking it as a lucky and snorting it all up their noses for all I know.

    161. Jon D says:

      @Cath says
      A timely post Cath, and if everybody who supports the Yes Campaign were to register with their local groups and get that “inside” information there would be so much more of a greater understanding in relation to what is, and sometimes isn’t happening, just as you describe. 
      I am convinced many will sign up next year, but, to all those reading this, we are already into single figures regarding the number of months remaining in this campaign. Like time, we need to get marching – literally and have these conversations and post ALL the literature that WILL be coming out as of January. 
      Big Deep Breath Time Folks……………..

    162. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Anyone notice the Scottish Sun has done a pretty good demolition job on the OBR and Darling?”

      Not many folk notice anything in the Sun since it went behind a paywall. Got any pics or quotes?

    163. ronnie anderson says:

      Taranaich,I agree with your sentiments, if the good people dint have a concience , the politicions would be in deep shit,so in effect we are our own worst enemy, on another topic just had the postman deliver Scotlands future , he left with , A LINK TO THE WINGS SITE , SEVERAL DOZ YES NEWSPAPERS / CARDS ( many in the depot are YES supporters ) & THE PHONE NUM TO GET THE WHITE PAPER , MY DAYS MADE UP, Rite you fkin ATOS lot on Fri am ready fur yous, Hi Diddlie Dee Its INDEPENDENCE FUR ME, n YOUS ARE ALL WELCOME TAE

    164. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “it doesn’t require me to give my shoe size and a copy of my fingerprints for Rev’s archives or my phone number so he can call up at night and breathe heavily on the phone (I had to give him it specially to arrange that).”

      Hey, when we offer people a donor perk, we deliver 😀

    165. sneddon says:

      Ronnie- All the best with ATOS, they were so bad with me that the DWP Decision Maker overturned their verdict that I was fit to work before I even had a chance to Appeal! 🙂

    166. Breastplate says:

      Appleby, I agree but Yes Scotland have dug a hole for themselves and if we don’t get them out of it, the inevitable public spanking by the press won’t reflect well on them or us as Yes people.
      So it seems to me to be imperative to use the Bloom site to donate to yes Scotland.
      I’ll be extremely disappointed if
      1. They try this sort of funding again and 
      2. Nobody gets their arse kicked over this.
      Of course as ever, this is my own humble opinion.

    167. Richard says:

      Thanks Rev
      i was so pissed off that I got of my backside and volunteered my time for Helensburgh and lomond Yes and I committed £30 Through Bloom. I am truly fed up with Bitter Together capturing the pissing newspapers and feel the need to get out there and do some of this grass roots stuff.

    168. kalmar says:

      Thought people were being a bit harsh but looking at Bloom’s blog really didn’t do much to reassure me.  The written English is poor, cringingly littered with social media buzzwords and jargon and generally has the air of a dot com bubble era cash-in attempt, doomed to failure.  Sorry 🙁

    169. Hi folks

      I’m sorry that so many of you have experienced problems with the BloomVC third-party website that we’re using for our crowdfunding campaign. We chose to partner with BloomVC as they’re a Scottish company – the only company in Scotland offering the crowdfunding back-end. The other, more established, crowdfunding suppliers are all either based overseas or are off-shored for tax purposes and we risked criticism by partnering with them. Unfortunately, BloomVC’s platform has let us down, and we’ve been criticised anyway.

      By now, you’ve probably all seen the list of big-money donors that the No campaign published over the weekend. Yes Scotland is community-funded and we rely on small donations from people like you to continue our work. I’m pleased to be able to say that crowdfund has received a significant boost on the back of the No campaign’s announcement.

      We’ll be pushing the crowdfund in the coming days and hope to make up the deficit in the amount pledged and reach our target by Saturday coming. If you can / will persevere and try again, that would be greatly appreciated. Alternatively, you can help to promote the crowdfund to others. If you’d prefer to just donate straight to Yes Scotland, you can do so (in a variety of easy ways) here:
      Again, my apologies for the inconvenience and frustration.
      All best
      Stan Blackley
      Deputy Director of Communities
      Yes Scotland

    170. Anon Sailor says:

      It’d be easier to hack the Bloom website than donate…. Warming up the Low Orbit Ion Canon…Open Ports found…injecting HTML code…donating now.

    171. kininvie says:

      Mildly off topic – but:
      We quite often get people on here wondering how to get in contact with their local group. Yes Scotland have their Local Groups map, which should be a useful resource to help people do just that:
      The problem is that the map is not particularly up to date, nor, in most cases, does it give contact information. But it has the ability to bring up an e-mail address (click Yes Musselburgh to see how) – which should make an easy way for volunteers to get in touch.
      So, if you are active with a Yes group, it’s worth checking to see that the map accurately reflects the groups in your area, and secondly setting up an email a/c through which volunteers can get in touch.  Then email the info to
      communities [at] yesscotland [dot] net
      and ask them to update…

    172. Richard says:

      I spoke to yes Scotland to let them know Because I needed to call them to get the Helensburgh contact details. I also offered to help update the map but they said it was being updated.

    173. beachthistle says:

      Bit the bullet – did the Bloom thing to try to stop Yes get a (for once deserved) kicking for a very public failed crowd-funding campaign foot-shoot.
      Also did it because I am thinking about using crowd-funding to help get my wee business started-up, so finding out how good or bad ‘Bloom’ is was useful ‘research’ for me. Result: pretty grim. It took me about half an hour pfaffing around with passwords and giving personal info and agreeing to things/wording I normally wouldn’t.
      So I won’t be using Bloom for crowd-funding my new business – and can’t for the life of me see why Yes thought it was a good idea (apart from it being Scottish) – the ‘if you don’t meet the target you don’t get anything’ model must be the worst thing that a political campaign (as opposed to a new business) could sign up to!?
      Bigger-picture, I also have the perception that the Yes campaign is too focused aligning itself with the great-and-the-good and working with and through the bourgeoisie  – and that its community strategy is amateurish – just being better/more visible than the (non-existent) BT grassroots campaign is not good enough!

    174. Cath says:

      “and that its community strategy is amateurish”
      It’s a grassroots campaign. Its community strategy relies on people coming forward to lead the campaigns in each area, and others joining in to make it a vibrant grassroots campaign. If you’re not doing either and think you can do better than those who are, get involved.

    175. Oneironaut says:

      While I fully support the Yes campaign and definitely plan on voting Yes myself.  I do sometimes have my doubts whether we can win this or not, every time I hear yet another person brainwashed by the MSM spitting back the headlines almost word for word at me on the street.
      Things like this just increase the doubts…
      I haven’t used it myself though, so I’m not going to join in the site bashing going on here.

      Taranaich’s post kind of sums up my feelings about donations too.  Being a techie at heart, I prefer to solve problems by tracking them back to the cause and sorting things out there.  And as far as I’m concerned that means getting involved personally in the fight for a Yes vote.

      Time is more useful a donation than money I think. And you can’t do much in the way of getting directly in touch with people if you’re just spending that time sitting in a fancy office… (Though I suppose you could wave at people passing by.  Maybe try and tempt them in with a “Free Cookies” sign stuck to the window or something!)

      That said though, if I see any Yes campaigners with a collection tin, I’ll just stick a donation in that.  Maybe I can give them what I saved by not having to pay for a TV licence any more, hehe 🙂

    176. Cath says:

      Gah! “Its community strategy” not “it’s”. Damn whoever posted before I could fix that.

    177. Oneironaut says:

      Sorry.  My bad! 🙁

    178. Emma says:

      I wonder if perhaps it’s because everyone knows the Wings fundraiser starts in February that Yes, Bella and Newsnet decided to get theirs in early?!!

    179. Cath says:

      “Sorry.  My bad! “
      It was a very good post though so I forgive you 🙂

    180. The Man in the Jar says:

      I “fell out” with pay-pal some time ago and vowed never to use their services ever again so I am not even going to attempt to donate to Yes Scotland. Why do we need all of this bullshit anyhow. Is a simple sort code and bank account number beyond these fundraisers why do they have to make it so difficult.
      Another reason for not donating to Yes Scotland is that for me at least they have been the biggest disappointment of the campaign so far. Not one leaflet never mind a newspaper have I received. I would happily get off my arse and deliver leaflets and newspapers if there was a Yes group in my area which there isn`t.
      Bah humbug! :

    181. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Gah! “Its community strategy” not “it’s”. Damn whoever posted before I could fix that.”

      You were fine. I had your back.

    182. kalmar says:

      Onironaut says:
      While I fully support the Yes campaign and definitely plan on voting Yes myself.  I do sometimes have my doubts whether we can win this or not, every time I hear yet another person brainwashed by the MSM spitting back the headlines almost word for word at me on the street.

      I guess this is OT too, but have had similar depressing experiences myself lately.  People implacably set against the whole idea, and actually seem angry about it to the point where there’s no point trying to argue with them.  Hatred / suspicion of Alex Salmond seems a common theme, and enough to justify them voting no out of spite alone it seems!

      What on earth has he done, I wonder, that can even be compared to the usual suspects in Westminster!  Are they really brainwashed on the issue or am I naively missing something?

    183. kendomacaroonbar says:

      My older sister has an irrational hatred of Alex S.  I can’t get any sense out of her at all what her issue with the guy is, but I reckon it’s something to do with the way he is portrayed on TV as a cock sure assertive individual.  I honestly think a lot of Scot’s just don’t like politicians to appear  ‘gallous’, and whilst Ecks combative and confident manner doesn’t vex me, it certainly hacks off a few folks I know. 

    184. Jon D says:

      @The Man in the Jar
      You sound like the very man to start a Yes group in your area?
      Just thinking.

    185. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      While we may have some issues with YES organisation and communication I think we are being a little harsh. It is under huge pressure at all times and has started from scratch. Our strength lies in localised face to face activity however and the online community and we are strengthening here all the time.
      I would say however that if an expensive premises in central Glasgow was taken on it should be used as a comfrotable drop in spot where activists and the intersted can have a chat,a cuppa and their concerns addressed. Otherwise there was no need to take on a prominent site and a less expensive premises should have been taken if it is only to be used as an office.
      O/T  Excellent piece on Bella Caledonia about those Tory donors and who and what they are

    186. beachthistle says:

      “It’s a grassroots campaign. Its community strategy relies on people coming forward to lead the campaigns in each area, and others joining in to make it a vibrant grassroots campaign. If you’re not doing either and think you can do better than those who are, get involved.”
      Fair comment re what I may or may not be doing myself, Cath. Re on-the-street activity (as opposed to going to organised meetings) I’ve only been leafleting once – responding to the one and only advert for volunteers I have seen so far from ‘Yes central’ – I get many more invites from BT to the email address I registered with them. Re my local community, if I can reduce my work-related travel enough, I plan to get more involved, but as far as community stuff being primarily/mainly locally led, I think it has to be a collaboration with Yes HQ.

      I know from my days in the Scottish community empowerment/participatory democracy scene that it is believed by some in Scottish civil society that successful community, grassroots campaigns/organisations can/should just spontaneously emerge/organically happen. That might be true and might work for very local issues, but for an high-profile, atritional national campaign I would argue there has to be professional and timely support from a knowledgeable, experienced. empathetic and on-the-ball centre in terms of ideas, structure, information resources, media relations, etc. 
      I have felt from the beginning that having a few experienced national level political and environmental issue activists in Yes HQ does not a community-campaign-strategic-and-support-unit make. I offered advice and my services free of charge in face-to-face meetings with them and in emails, but there has been no contact/reply from them in the past 10 months…

    187. Ciaran McRae- YesABZ says:

      It looks like the target has been halved, we are now at 166% with £8313.

    188. Gillie says:

      “we risked criticism” –  Stan Blackley

      Now that is overly sensitive and defensive and highlights the lightly-lightly approach that is doing the YES campaign harm.
      C’mon guys, this is not about tip-toeing around and looking over shoulders. Who gives a damn what unionists and the unionist press now thinks.  For god’s sake toughen up. You need the money, we’ve got the money. Give us a robust, safe and simple system that allows people to contribute.

    189. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Alex Salmond has done absolutely nothing wrong and was by far the most popular political figure in Scotland two years ago. He was however the least popular some time before that. Then, as has happened now, he was  subjected to a sustained campaign of personalised vilification which has no basis in any real sense of anything he may have done.

      When you aske the people why they don’t like Alex Salmond they come away with some generalised evasion normally because they only dislike him because the Record or the Express have been calling him names 

    190. Jon D says:

      @Gillie says:
      Agree with much of that. We are doing this in order to stop having to doff our caps to the British Establishment and in so doing are doffing our caps to the British Establishment. 
      It’s all a bit like this-

    191. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      @Ciaran McRae- YesABZ
      Nope. Now at £8,380 promised of our £15,000 target (55%).
      Sure you looked at the right one?

    192. chalks says:

      Just donated, do you lot use computers a lot?
      As it was a bit annoying, but goodness sake, get over it.

    193. Papadocx says:

      Gillie 4:00 pm
      well said gillie. For evil to triumph good men just have to do nothing. 
      The backers and funders of no are a grisly crew, supported by naive and frightened people who never made a decision in their lives And think theY are backing the good British state. The state is rotten to the core and that is what these cowboys are!  

    194. The Man in the Jar says:

      @John D
      Tried and failed due to lack of interest. (Or is it me?) 🙁
      I have repeated nightmares where I am impersonating “UKOK lady” but with a Yes banner stuck to my wee table. 🙁

    195. chalks says:

      As for moaning at Yes for using a Scottish company that pays its taxes…..seriously, you’d rather they used a company registered offshore and alienate themselves? As once it was broken that they are offshore, you really think people would pledge money, not to mention the shit storm of ‘hypocrisy’ that would descend on them?

    196. Robert Kerr says:

      Had a go in spite of my earlier post. 
      Was not pleased that the country pull down list starts with “United Kingdom”.
      Was not pleased that my autofill didn’t work.
      Was totally urinated upon when they wanted my paypal email address.
      Aborted donation.

    197. Extreme0 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      I had someone tell me that the reason she dosen’t like him is because he Hates the English and saids that she provided “proof” (Naturally, most of this is proof is from biased sources without proof) of that claim from these links and says she isn’t gonna vote yes because of one man.

      People keep yapping about Alex Salmond when somebody mentions him/Scotland/Scottish independence has me thinking they have such a hard-on for him. Alex this and Alex that. I almost want to snap if they base their judgement in this vote because of one person.

      When you hear this more often then you think. You can’t help but think of what it would like if they really had their heads stuck up their ass and see the shit they spew out.

    198. thomas says:

      Just want to say i make a monthly contribution to yes , and have made  a small one off donation to the others.
      Keep smiling boys and girls , and all the very best to you all for christmas and all the best fur the new year and independance.

    199. Colin Dunn says:

      Have to say that the Yes Scotland ‘Bloom’ donation mechanism is nasty. Forces you to sign up for an account just to make a donation, and insists on a mobile number even if you don’t have one. Blech. Nasty. I suggest that Yes Scotland uses the same processor as Wings next time.

    200. Frank Garden says:

      Thanks X_Sticks says: I just made a Donation to the ‘YES’ campaign using ‘Paypal’.
      Easy peasy it took me three minutes.

    201. Grant_M says:

      @Ciaran McRae- YesABZ
      I saw that too!
      Seems like they’ve found their calculator again – now 56%, £8,704

    202. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      It is perfectly fine IF you already have a paypal account that is current and active, and IF you used the same e-mail when registering for Bloom as your paypal account is registered under.
      The problem people have been having is if you used another email to register THEN it asks you for your paypal one (Which isnt in the initial set-up page).
      This causes an issue because it seems to hang up at this point and not let you go any further even if you put in your paypal e-mail in the field marked on the contact form.
      To overcome this you need to go to your newly created Bloom Profile and update your personal details to include your paypal e-mail then go back to the crowdfunding page to click “promise” once more.
      BUT getting back to the crowdfunding page is problematic…
      Searching either “300 Crowd” or “Yes Scotland” yields no results.
      Scottish Independence does work and finds the page however having unfindable by either the organisation looking for it, OR the name of the project is a bit unhelpful.
      Many people had to come back to Wings and then re-click the link to get back to the right page.
      NOW, having gone to all that bother they can then pledge an amount and be taken to the Paypal Screen.
      As for Paypal, many people may have old details in PayPal, or even no account.
      They have to sign up to PayPal (or get an old log in amended) and then upload the details of their card they wish to pay via, address details and so on – ensuring these are all accurate and up to date.
      Many people do not like having internet based organisations holding the details of their bank cards in their files (but there is no way round this). Some people may be put off by not having a Direct pay option.
      Once the person has accessed Paypal and confirmed their details are correct they can then make their “Promise”.
      Thats A LOT of steps for something thats supposed to be simple and will inevitably put people off.
      NOW, as to why they though it was a good idea to choose a platform that only gives you the money if you reach the target is another story.
      They talk about a certain amount being enough for hiring a hall, a pop up stand, leaflets etc… but they have set it up in a way that they can ONLY get 100% of these things or nothing… THAT is foolish. 3 pop up stands out of 100 is better than none!
      The criticism may be harsh but it really is valid. 

    203. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      As for those who are going on about letting big donations come in… FINE…
      BUT they should set up a crowdfunding that is less hassle and has a maximum donate limit of £499 – with a “Donate larger amount here” button that takes the donator through the full system checks.

    204. Robert Kerr says:

      I made a small test donation to Bella via my paypal.
      Time taken was 1 min 3 seconds.

    205. Bertie K says:

      Oh naw, just reaised Scotland wont appear in country of origin drop-down boxes in the event of a no vote 

    206. chalks says:

      I always thought it was PayPal holding the bank account information, rather than the company involved…if people don’t like paying online, then they would never sign up to Paypal?
      Common sense dictates that.
      I can see why people are upset, I had to go back to Yes Scotland, click on the link and through that way again, but it’s not undecideds giving money, it’s hardcore Yes supporters.
      Jesus, you can walk through the pishing rain/wind/hail (delete as applicable) but 5 minutes of faffing about on a computer is too much?  Come on.
      Suck it up, we’ve had this crap union to put up with, a little PC based rage is nothing.
      : )

    207. Bella says:

      Interesting discussion and thanks to WoS for the plug.

      A couple of quick comments. First up we launched our crowd appeal and within a matter of days several others launched as well. There was nothing we could do about it. We did think it was both odd and badly thought-through by the others.

      Second Doug mentions ‘Stu’s fundraiser was clear – we were paying for a journalist to make the site his full-time job for a year. That justified the size of the fundraiser – it was a man’s salary for a year.’ Ours is pretty similar – its a full time editorial post and a columnist –  in this case George Rosie – an award-winning investigative journalist.
      Thirdly – I totally appreciate the point people are making about the time of year and everyone being skint. I guess we’re all learning about how to do this best.

      If anyone wants to support us please do. Here’s the link again:

    208. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      “it’s not undecideds giving money, it’s hardcore Yes supporters”
      No… its ‘Yes’ supporters…
      We cannot rely solely on the hardcore support, but need to make sure we attract thos sympathetic to the cause (but not committed).
      There are many people who may be quite happy for independence and will vote that way, but they also wont go out and make a difference because they view it as nice to have rather than essential.
      You need to make it easy to donate. Jumping through hoops is counter-productive.

    209. Doug Daniel says:

      Fair play to Stan for posting here – how often do you see folk from the No campaign putting their heads above the parapet? At the first sign of criticism, those guys are AWOL.
      I actually remember people telling Stu he should have used Bloom, precisely because it was Scottish. So Stan’s right that Yes Scotland would have been inviting criticism by not using it. It’s just a shame it turns out it’s not up to the job – if I remember correctly, some of the error handling for filling out your profile on the site is pretty poor, although you tend to notice these things more when you’re a programmer.
      It’s okay to make a mistake as long as you learn from it, and it sounds like Yes Scotland have learnt from this. Maybe the indy movement as a whole could learn some lessons from this as well – better communication between campaigns to ensure we don’t have three seeking our dosh at the same time again being probably the most important lesson.

    210. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      Hope you get there but you’ve a long way to go and a short time to do it.
      Good Luck.

    211. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      ^^^^ What Doug said ^^^^

    212. Cath says:

      I really hope both Bella and Newsnet make the targets – they’re both great and in totally different ways. Wish I could chuck a bit more in than I have but money really is spread thin this month.

    213. rabb says:

      Thanks for the reply to my earlier post. I’m fully aware of the grassroots campaign. I was part of my local Yes group for some time until circumstances changed and indeed stuffed leaflets through doors & manned street stalls.
      My point is that the Yes campaign could have had more bang for their buck and be situated in the epicentre of those we all must convince and still co-ordinate rather than pay over the odds for a mediocre city centre location that a few visit. Aggregation of marginal gains and all that!
      I’m as sure as the s**t on a sheeps arse that it would be mobbed every day if it were in Possil or the like.
      For now I’ll continue to contribute financially where I can and have even put principle aside and pledged via Bloom

    214. kininvie says:

      Some of the points you make are good. Part of the problem is we in Scotland are not used to US-style campaigning, and I think Yes HQ was over-ambitious in maybe thinking that an Obama-type hopey-changey pass-the-mesage-on movement would evolve without a lot more direction from the centre….
      But in the absence of such direction, the important thing is to get a grip at a local level. We wasted a lot of time floundering about here in West Lothian before realising this. It helped us that we are near neighbours to three of the best-organised Yes groups in the country – Clydesdale, Edin West & East Lothian, and we recognised that we were being put to shame – so started learning from them.
      There’s no set way to do it: different groups have different skills. But there are a few fundamentals: communicate via Twitter & Facebook; make it easy for volunteers to find you and be welcomed in; get regular activities going and publicise them; be visible; raise money… And have a quick ‘n dirty organising structure to decide what will happen, where and when.
      Once you have even the bare bones of a local set-up and are coming up with ideas about what to do, Yes HQ is good at backing you up & advising.
      Apologies if I’m teaching Grannies to suck eggs…. just that we wasted a lot of time waiting for things to evolve spontaneously – which of course they didn’t!

    215. Morag says:

      There is something about Wings, and it comes down to Stu’s personality I think.  Whereas the other sites give us things to read, Wings is a place to BE.  I’ll toss in a tenner for a site that gives me good things to read.  I’ll go a lot further for a community where I can live and interact.
      At one point I thought NNS might be that community, however NNS is run by borderline fascists with a judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that is a complete turn-off.  Wings stepped in just about the point where that was becoming obvious, and provided what was needed and what had been lacking.
      I had already been musing about whether it might actually be possible for Wings to be a full-time effort for the duration, before Stu actually mooted the crowdfunding.  I know how hard it is to hold down a job to pay the bills, and try to do something that makes a real difference in your spare time.  So when the crowdfunder came along, I was primed.
      Look at the difference in the number of comments on Wings, compared to the other sites that are currently seeking funding.  Go figure.

    216. Dan Huil says:

      Just to say I’ve made small donations to Yes Scotland,WOS,newsnetscotland and Bella and have encountered no problems.Hopefully I will make further small donations in the future.

      I think I’m right in saying all the sites I listed continue to increase in popularity – especially from first-timers.This is the main thing to keep in mind.There is still a long way to go till September.The non-thinking Naysayers [Salmond and Sturgeon haters included] will probably remain No voters but there are plenty of don’t-knows and unsure doubters who are open to reason.

    217. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “As for moaning at Yes for using a Scottish company that pays its taxes…..seriously, you’d rather they used a company registered offshore and alienate themselves? As once it was broken that they are offshore, you really think people would pledge money, not to mention the shit storm of ‘hypocrisy’ that would descend on them?”

      This is a ridiculous criticism/fear. Yes Scotland use computers. Were they all made by Scottish companies? [SUB: INSERT ‘MAC’ JOKE HERE.] Did they check the provenance of all their office chairs? Are all their mobile phones made in Muckle Flugga? Do they only have haggis for lunch? For heaven’s sake, using a company outside Scotland to provide a particular service isn’t the same thing as soliciting foreign donations.

      As has been said before – we all need to be a lot less bothered about what the No camp and the media say. If we’ve learned nothing else in the last two years, it’s that they can put a negative spin on anything, and if they can’t find one they’ll just make one up. So let’s get on with the job and let them bleat as much as they want.

    218. Cath says:

      “NNS is run by borderline fascists with a judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that is a complete turn-off.  “
      Have to defend NNS on this one. Wings is a great place to come and comment and is a kind of community. But NSS is more like a media outlet, and the lack of 200+ comments can make their stories easier to share with some people. Similarly, National Collective, Bella or Business for Scotland are better to share with others.
      It’s about having a variety of different tones and styles to share with those people you think will take the message best from that kind of site. Huge comments threads entirely filled with very decided people can put some undecideds or no types off.

    219. Concur Cath and would add some seem to have a nasty agenda against some sites because they cannot dominate its comment content.

    220. Morag says:

      Perhaps if they didn’t take comments at all it would make for less ill-feeling.  However, their very snooty attitude to any comment that doesn’t entirely meet with their idiosyncratic approval is distinctly off-putting, as is the management’s total failure to engage (identifiably) in the BTL discussion.

      They’re almost as bad as the Herald.  Any criticism of a post, and you’re on permanent pre-moderation that completely prevents participation in any discussion.  When that happens, you might as well be banned.  Just ask how many Wings posters are in that situation.  Including Stu, I think.

      It doesn’t make for good feelings, and lack of good feelings is not conducive to opening PayPal account.

    221. Morag says:

      Concur Cath and would add some seem to have a nasty agenda against some sites because they cannot dominate its comment content.
      Would you care to expand on that, or maybe justify the jibe?

    222. Jingly Jangly says:

      Totally agree re nns

    223. Morag says:

      It’s about having a variety of different tones and styles to share with those people you think will take the message best from that kind of site.
      I do agree with the “variety of tones and styles” thing.  However, what I was talking about was realistic expectations of what a fundraiser can achieve.  People are far more likely to dig deep for a community than for a site that just provides good articles.  And a site that has a friendly attitude is going to do better than a site which is unfriendly.
      People choose which appeals to give to, and how much to give.  Wings was always on the edge of the curve on that one, and I think sites which don’t have the same button-press factors were perhaps unrealistically enthused by the success of the Wings fundraiser.

    224. Ken500 says:

      The SNP will make sure the target is reached.

      Join the SNP to achieve Independence. They are well organised.

    225. Linda's Back says:

      To raise the spirits and no pre Christmas begging
      There is a good article on Business for Scotland on the problems NO Scotland side has finding prominent business people to speak out against self determination.

    226. Linda's Back says:

      Or Derek Bateman’s take on Bitter Together donors
      Well, maybe not. But if you’d told me two years ago that our constitutional debate would involved Labour getting into bed with this motley crew of millionaires and military cowboys, I wouldn’t have believed it. Whoever wins next year, the battle honours of Scottish Labour, once the proud vanguard of the working Scot, will be hung for ever with the names of these carpetbaggers and charlatans to whom the working class are mere commodities.
      PS Blair McDougall is going into psychosis mode believing his own propaganda. “Alex Salmond has shown he is willing to spend hundreds and thousands of pounds of taxpayers money on propaganda for his campaign”, he says. Who’s paying for the 30 reports of the British Government and parliamentary reports of every single Committee at Westminster and the Secretary of State’s department, I wonder?

    227. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Don’t see the point in whinging about other pro-YES sites….

      I remember as a kid my Granddad seeing Mary Whitehouse on the telly moaning about something and saying ‘Having you ever thought of using the f**kin off switch you stupid woman’……same applies here I thnk….dinna like the sites, dinnae visit them or send them cash…easy.
      On a broader point how many Indy crowd fundings have there been now ? There must have been well over quarter of a million raised surely ?
      Too skint to contribute right now….but I’ll bung the Rev a couple of brick in the spring and I’ll be more than happy to throw a similar amount to anyone wanting to crowd fund a Bilboard campaign…..
      Especially if one of them is a picture of Maggie with the tagline ”MAGGIE WOULD WANT YOU TO VOTE NO’ 😉

    228. handclapping says:

      The SNP may be well organised but it will take more than them. It needs the Greens, Tommy, the SSP, Labour4Indy and more, particularly you.
      Remember in 1950, when the SNP was counted in 100s, the Covenant Association got 2,000,000 signatures on a petition for an Assembly. That’s the sort of result we need to aim for and the SNP isn’t necessary to get it either.

    229. Papadocx says:

      Re Alex Salmond: it’s called character assassination. If you tell the people often enough and long enough (preferably through a trust BBC tv channel) then the lie becomes fact to a large proportion of the sharper types. It’s called freedom and democracy! 
      Remember a lie will be half way round the world before the truth gets it’s shoes on. 

    230. Marcia says:

      A debate was held at  a Kirkintilloch school today attended by 300 students, the young Michael Gray from the National Collective tweeted:

      Teacher: At the start of term most pupils were voting No. By the end of today’s debate most of the class were voting Yes. We can do this.

    231. Norrie says:

      “There is something about Wings”
      I agree 100%

    232. handclapping says:

      Like the poster idea but I’d caption it WANT MAGGIE? VOTE NO

    233. Fab001 says:

      Wouldn’t it be great if we had an honest media who could point out that most of the money donated to the No campaign is from individuals who live outside Scotland and who support the Tories. It’s about time the Yes campaign made an issue of the media, too many Scots think that the newspapers and tv channels are neutral and the reason they are so hostile towards independence is because its a bad idea.
      BTW WOS should remove “If we put “Scottish independence referendum” here, apparently we get a lot more hits” from the page title. Too many words in the title dilute the keywords so it should simple be replaced with “Scottish Independence Referendum”.

    234. mogabee says:

      I’ve never been known to give up easy, so armed with tea and biscuits! Finally got through and made YES a promise aaaand got my copy of Scotland’s Future too…
      Result all round!

    235. Cindie aka CR says:

      Just donated to Yes, I’ll try and donate to Bella and NNS later in the week if I can.  I agree with others that it’s a very bad time of year to be fundraising, but thanks to Rev Stu and Wings readers it looks like all the campaigns have had a boost.
      @Stan Blackley 2:51pm thanks for your message, it’s good to know that our donations do make a difference and are appreciated.
      @Amanda Boyle 9.56am I found your comment less than useful and think your organisation would do well to make note of the comments on this site.  The feedback that your organisation has received today here on Wings would cost a lot of time and money if you were to undertake market research. 
      I donated to the Yes campaign despite the Bloom website, not because of it.  It was exceedingly complicated and asked for far more information than was needed or that I was willing to give.  In my past I have been instrumental in raising thousands of pounds of funding for a variety of causes and I can tell you from experience that putting obsticles in the way of donations is never a good thing. In addition, you should always listen to your customers, especially when, as on here they have been informative and constructive.  I wish the site good luck in the future and hope it will implement some changes based on the feedback from Wings and from the comments on the site itself and continue to flourish
      Taranaich 1:12pm, your story was so moving and I’m sure that your time and support will be just as useful, if not moreso than money.  I do hope you’re able to share some of your art with us sometime.

    236. Andrew Morton says:

      I’ll post this here too so that people can see it. . . .
      I mentioned on a previous thread that I had written to Europe Direct to ask them to clarify my position as an EU citizen in the event of a Yes vote. I have now had a reply:
      “Dear Mr Morton,
      Thank you for your message.
      Please kindly note that, in our capacity as a general information service, we can provide only factual information and cannot comment on your remarks.
      Please be informed that if a part of a Member State wishes to become independent, this is first and foremost an internal matter within that Member State. Therefore, it is not for the European Union to take sides. Furthermore, there are several theoretical scenarios possible under international law. The Commission cannot speculate on which choices would be retained. For the same reason, the Commission is not able to speculate on any potential consequences under the EU law.
      We would like to draw your attention to several questions raised in the European Parliament on this topic (E-010762/12, E-011159/12, E-010044/12 and E-011632/12) and to the joint answer given by Mr Barroso on behalf of the EC:
      Finally, European Union (EU) citizenship is a consequence of citizenship of a Member State of the EU. One cannot be an EU citizen without being a citizen of a Member State. It is additional to, but does not replace the latter. Relevant background information is available on the website of the Directorate General for Justice at the following link:
      We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions.
      *Follow this path to access Parliamentary questions: Indicate the Parliamentary term and add the number/year of the question or use the search by words > press “Search” > click on the document icon > if the question has an answer already, click on the icon “Answer(s)”.
      With kind regards,
      EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre – your shortcut to the EU!
      European Year of Citizens 2013
      It’s about Europe, it’s about you – Join the debate!
      Please note that the information provided by EUROPE DIRECT is not legally binding.”

    237. mogabee says:

       My daughters class has a high yes +ve..only problem is they are only 13ish and won’t be able to vote. :-))

    238. The Man in the Jar says:

      It is possibly the negativity here today but I am feeling very down about the Yes campaign.
      I am unwilling and unable to jump through the required hoops to donate to Yes Scotland. However I am retired and so have plenty of time to give to the campaign. I would love to spend some time delivering these leaflets and newspapers that I read about here on Wings. I would love to man a street stall. Oh what I would give to visit a Yes shop / drop in centre (in my dreams).
      Unfortunately there is no Yes group in my area. I had an attempt at setting one up myself but it turned out to be a very embarrassing failure [the next unionist that calls me Citizen Smith is gettin a dooin! 😉 ] I feel like I am living in a vacuum. Sometimes I feel like giving up and I will just turn up and vote on the 18th Sept and be done with it.
      There are other Yes groups not to far away from me but I feel that I want to make a difference in my own community I dont particularly want to treps around Mossend and Holytown delivering leaflets when my own community is getting bugger all. 

    239. Ken500 says:

      Alex Salmond is the most popular Politican in the UK, achieves the highest ratings of all Politicans. Most of the opposition politicans are not even recognised, including the Labour leader. The SNP Holyrood Gov receives the best rating for trust and competence in the UK.

      No everyone believes, what they read in the Papers or MSM.

      Thanks to Wings etc.

    240. Richard says:

      The Man in the jar – you haven’t said where you live. There may be people here who could hook up with you. Worth calling yes Scotland too. They may know someone in your community to link with

    241. Andrew Morton says:

      I think the idea of a Maggie poster is a great one because she attracted almost universal hostility in Scotland. Ii remember a well spoken Glasgow lady who was asked by a BBC reporter from London what she thought of Maggie,
      “She should be shot!” Was the reply, much to the reporter’s consternation.
      My preferred format would be a photo of her at her most patronising with the words “Vote No. It’s what she would have wanted”

    242. Ken500 says:

      @ The Man in a Jar 6.02pm

      Just get newspapers/leaflets from neighbouring YES group and deliver them in your area. Or get someone from the local SNP branch to deliver some to you. Easy.

    243. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “There are other Yes groups not to far away from me but I feel that I want to make a difference in my own community I dont particularly want to treps around Mossend and Holytown delivering leaflets when my own community is getting bugger all.”

      Don’t worry. If our plans for next year come to fruition, we’ll have stuff for you to do all right… 😉

    244. Malc says:

      Have just donated to Bella,  good luck reaching the target , 

    245. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Cath at 5.11
      I am entirely with Morag on Newsnet. (I don’t always agree with Morag)

      I contributed lots of comments to Newsnet, spread word of it far and wide and sent it donations. I then got moderated off. I have now asked politely five times why I was moderated off and I  haven’t even had the courtesy of an acknowledgement far less an explanation.
      This is completely unacceptable.

      I suspect my banning was as a result of a harmless little joke which I carried on from a friend suggesting the appropriate new design of George Square which Wings carried with no objection whatsover.

      If  this was the reason or if they have some other reason I am entitled to know.  

    246. Sent them a few bob, but after the New Year we hiv to ensure that ALL the pro independence sites are talking to each other and we go forward with a united strategy, IMHO. MIAJ, we aw get days like that, the sun will still come up ramorra

    247. some excellent posts here, i dare say there are crowd funding organisations out there reading these posts and weeping that they dont have such commited followers
      but some of the posters here have hit the nail on the head. the YES campaign needs to be taken to the heart of every community and be done face to face. here we only preach to the converted. the no campaign controls the airways and the MSM. that is not to be sniffed at.
      ask yourselves, if it is not the people who are posting here who will need to do this………..who will it be?

      computer literate, literate, keen and commited………have I missed something?

      we need, not just a yes glasgow, we need a yes hope street, a yes sauchiehall street, indeed, we need a presence everywhere or we will lose.
      who better to tailor the literature for people looking to convince others? who better to create facebook pages, assocciated email addresses etc for others who dont know how? and to direct people to comment on them and get them kick started?

      I sense an exasperation creeping into this campaign, the polls are moving too slowly,
      how better to counter them ? rather than crowd fund money, crowd fund local groups
      welcome to yes lindores

    248. The Man in the Jar says:

      I live in Bothwell and I keep being directed to Yes Uddingston and Bellshill but they are not. They are Yes Birkenshaw, Tannochside, Viewpark and Bellshill. The use of Uddingston is a bit cheeky as Birkenshaw, Tannochside and Viewpark have for historic reasons Uddingston in their postal address but for some years now they have not even been in the same county the M74 being the county boundary. 

    249. beachthistle says:

      @Andrew Morton
      My preferred format would be a photo of her at her most patronising with the words “Vote No. It’s what she would have wanted”
      I think a photo of her giving her ‘No such thing as society’ speech to the Kirk Assembly in 1988 would do the job…?
      Thanks for your observations about your experiences – I realise I am being critical re the central Yes campaign but it’s only because I foresaw all this* happening when I saw the CVs of those in Yes HQ whose job it is to organise/manage/support the communities part of the campaign (which is critical is Yes success).
      *people all over Scotland with lots of energy, goodwill and time to give being frustrated and/or put-off by the lack of empathy and support  – and an over-reliance on conventional political campaign/issue activism methods/tactics…

    250. liz says:

      Hi I managed to donate a small amount to all 3 without too much bother although I dont really like giving out my phone no.
      I agree about WoS being the best and I’m happy to donate what I can here but help support the others in a small way if I can.
      I also got my Scotland’s Future today and it looks great.
      The local postie said he had delivered 5 today on a half route -split due to Christmas.
      I think we have a lot to be positive about but everyone gets a bit down at different times.
      That’s why it’s good to come on here to let off a bit of steam.
      There’s plenty of information out there now and if people refuse to see there’s not much that can be done.
      These folk will eventually find out they’ve been lied to and if they have voted no due to fear – they will be ashamed.
      Still lots to play for and all we can do is our best.

    251. Fab001 says:

      Shock horror at this story in the Daily Record of all places!
      Compare this to the very neutral headline on the BBC website:
      You’ll also notice that they don’t mention at all the connections these donators have to the Tory party, that’s left to Angus Robertson who quotes don’t appear until more than half way down the piece.

    252. kininvie says:

      Looks to me as though Yes Bellshill & Mossend have an active facebook page:
      Use it to find people who can help you. I don’t know the geography, but surely you can put your problem out (relatively) locally and see what turns up? At least it’s a start….

    253. naebd says:

      Was wondering what the fuss was about so I set up an entirely new account on bloom to make a second pledge. Took 7 minutes although I was on my phone so it was maybe a bit slower than it would have been on a laptop.
      It wasn’t the smoothest web interface I’ve ever used, but nothing that would warrant some of the, frankly, hysteria on here.
      This is like when a classroom full of children get themselves into a mass crying fit in some sort of negative feedback loop.

    254. Andrew Morton says:

      I was thinking of something more like this:
      Suitably evil looking.

    255. Dcanmore says:

      @The Man in the Jar…
      Then I would say start it up on your own by handing out leaflets in the street, you might attract people who are interested in helping you thinking there wasn’t a YES presence in the area. It will be difficult at first, but giving up a couple of hours at the weekend wearing a YES vest may be rewarding to you. Also you may want to send an email to Labour for Independence, SNP and the SSP to see if they have anyone in the area too.

    256. BuckieBraes says:

      This has been the most depressing – yet interesting – thread I’ve read on here in many a day. I don’t know about mass crying fits; mass Seasonal Affective Disorder is certainly in evidence.
      Remember, the shortest day is nearly here. We’re tilted just about as far from the sun as we can be, and the journey back into the light is about to begin. Things will look a whole lot different in a few weeks’ time.

    257. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This has been the most depressing – yet interesting – thread I’ve read on here in many a day.”

      I don’t think it’s depressing. I think it said some stuff that needed saying, and I’ve never been one for suppressing frank and candid open discussion.

      Totally agree about the time of year, though. We can all get a little glum around this point. 2014’s going to be a thrill ride, though.

    258. msean says:

      Liked the funny Carmichael rip off music video there ,but that last evil photo link gave me a right fright lol.

    259. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This is like when a classroom full of children get themselves into a mass crying fit in some sort of negative feedback loop.”

      No, it’s not. It’s like when people helpfully identify and explain to an organisation where the shortfalls in its systems are. Being all Pollyanna about it doesn’t help anyone. When you’re asking people to do you a favour, and you make it so hard that they’re put off, you’re the one who’s fucked up, not them. Blaming the customer because you made it awkward for them to give you their money is the attitude of a business not long for this world. And unfortunately, we only get one shot at this. Anyone making an arse of it is a liability we can’t afford.

    260. cirsium says:

      @JinglyJangly at 12.28  re Scotland’s Future.  This is a great read – practical and altruistic.  As I read it, I find myself thinking “This is the country I want to live in”.
      @AnneDon at 12.47.  The YES Scotland office now has a sign outside.

    261. Albert Herring says:

      Trying to donate to YesScotland crowdfund. Created Bloom account, but it won’t allow me to log in. Not impressed.

    262. msean says:

      As to the bloom thing,I think it is better to get this donor systems stuff straight now rather than a month out from the Referendum in order for it to be effective.

    263. heraldnomore says:

      Having been following the thread with interest I finally decided to have a go at the Bloom facility to see what the fuss is about.  All went well till paypal raised its very ugly head
      .This email address is in the wrong format
      Now I’ve hated paypal with a passion for some time, so another stupid message under that banner had me closing the window.  I’d willingly contribute to the fund, as I do to Yes anyway, and others, but up with paypal’s nonsense I will not put.
      So they’ve got my money, and will get more, but it won ‘t show up in the fund which is sad as we all know the media are waiting to pounce.  But the more important message on funding today are the one’s put forward by Bateman and Bella.

    264. mogabee says:

       Try leaving it for a couple of hours. Took me a few hrs to finally get through so not sure how some find it easy-peasy. Perhaps combination of different factors?

    265. actually, it was todays gloating article in the herald, and mr OBE btl which made me go to the yes site and contribute
      i dont think that was their intention:)

    266. Billy Johnston says:

      Are we not being all asked to put money into a list cause here?  Would it not be better to keep it and see what transpires after the referendum?

    267. Alan Mackintosh says:

      As a sensible solution to this how about the following. Bloom remove the Target trigger for donations so that whatever the amount reached, the donations will be activated. It may well reach the target by the end of the period, but as i said upthread, if it fails for the lack of 50 quid, thats 14.95K down the tube and everybody has to donate again. Better to have the pound in your hand than hoping everybody comes back to redo it. 

      If Amanda is still on thread, or if Stan is about then this can only be the sensible solution. Accept the criticisms of the log in procedure and either streamline it or just bypass it and go to yes scotland directly.

    268. Bertie K says:

      Anyone know the programme for the Commonweath games?

      I have a few skeptical friends on the dinnae ken fence who don’t have time for social media and 600 page white papers but do go to the fitba and the rugby.

      Just wodered if it would be a good idea to push the games organisers to include some of our own home grown sports like chucking the caber and bungung some boulders, efter and aw it wisnae just the Greek olymipans wha like tae play games.

      Maybe this kind of thing would appeal to the fitba and rugger crowd and gie us all a guid helpin O guid auld fashioned culture. Some people might be swayed if there was a few appeal to the heart instead o the heiid…

       I ken it’s probably written in tae the programme but just wanted to check in case anybody here has heard anythin?

      Maybe the Yes people could raise a campaign (and awareness)

      I ken a few Heilan heevies fae Aboye wha might want tae chip in and wha kens maybe there’d be time to get some athletes far other nations to compete if the word got oot early enuff.

    269. beachthistle says:

      @Andrew Morton
      YIKES! Yes very scary, but looks as if that was taken in her post-PM, lost-the-plot days.
      Far more chilling for a larger proportion of the Scottish population would be a reminder/an image of when she actually was Scotland’s/’our’ Prime Minister, and we were forced to sit and listen to her ravings  – which we were then supposed to take seriously…!?

    270. Doug Daniel says:

      Morag’s got it spot on – there are good reasons for why the Wings fundraisers are so successful. I think one reason why the initial one was so successful was because Stu spent a month dedicating himself to the site full-time, and it showed. We were getting four or five articles daily, so when Stu revealed that he’d basically been ignoring his usual freelance work to do it full-time that month, it was easy to convince us of the need to keep him full-time. Stu basically applied the same model as a drug dealer – give it out for free to get them hooked, then jack up the price, and we were all more than willing to pay for our daily fixes of MSM-dissection.
      Looking back at the Bella campaign description, perhaps there’s more detail there than I was giving it credit for, but I would still it’s not immediately obvious that we’re getting what Stu offered in March, which was basically to be our own personal unionist-slayer. A bit like the awful Pierce Brosnan film, Taffin, if anyone’s seen that! The general proposition of the Bella campaign is a worthy cause for folk to donate to, but maybe trying to get it all in one big £40,000 splurge just before Christmas was a bit ambitious?
      My criticisms were mostly aimed at Newsnet really, though – particularly as they’ve had at least three fundraisers this year already, and started theirs after the Bella one.

    271. Boorach says:

      I originally tried to donate to the Yes appeal when it was originally announced and had to give up when all sorts of personal details were demanded by Bloom. What I had for breakfast is none of their bloody business! Just tried again and have again given up due to Bloom’s intrusive attitude.
      Yes Scotland I have £30.00 just waiting for you and will deliver it via your own site.
      For others, like me, who are scunnered by web sites demanding information they have no right or need to have I keep the details of a local councillor (tory & better together hypocrite) which I use to fill any blank spaces. 🙂

    272. X_Sticks says:

      Morag says:
      “At one point I thought NNS might be that community, however NNS is run by borderline fascists with a judgmental holier-than-thou attitude that is a complete turn-off.”

      I’m afraid I will also have to disagree with this Morag. Just bacause NNS hasn’t provided you with the community (or perhaps soapbox?) that you want they are borderline fascists? You really need to take a long hard look in the mirror. I have been posting on NNS from day one and I have only ever had about two posts moderated in all that time. The two that were moderated probably deserved it.
      NNS meets a need in the independence campaign. It might not be your need, but then you don’t have to support them. I know that I have made at least two converts because of NNS. They were people who probably wouldn’t have been converted by Wings (meaning you absolutely no disrespect at all Rev Stu), but because of the fact that there aren’t 200 posts from (and I include myself in this group, so no disrespect to any of you here) hardcore independance supporters.

      Newsnet started with the community approach, but found it too difficult to control. They decided, quite rightly, that by keeping the ‘discussion’ down that their articles would have more prominence. They keep the comments, and you can have your say, but they are used more to pass links and info rather than debate the articles.

      They are doing their bit and doing it very well in my humble estimation. 

      You have every right to critisise, but you are totally OTT with “borderline fascists” and “judgemental holier-than-thou attitude” and I think you should rescind those comments.

      I would have to say after all that, that Wings is much more fun 😉

    273. Ron Wilson says:

      As folk have said, the disaster that is the Bloom fundraising initiative will not be in vain if Yes Scotland take stock & admit they got it wrong – then put it right.

      Having attempted twice to donate via Bloom I emailed them with my concerns but not even an acknowledgement.
      Best to just go direct to Yes and donate there.

    274. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “NNS meets a need in the independence campaign.”

      I think we’ve had the NNS debate several times. They’re entitled to conduct their site however they see fit, but I think it MIGHT be a bit optimistic to say “Look, we’re moderating out 90% of your comments now because they’re frankly boring and add nothing to the debate”, and then turn around a few weeks later and say “…but send us your money! We don’t value your opinions, but your money’s great!”

      It’s interesting that their fundraiser started out miles in front of Bella and YS, but Bella just overtook them and YS is now only a couple of hundred pounds behind.

      (A fortnight ago, I see from an old IM, Bella was £4481, Newsnet £7360, YS £4447.)

    275. Jon D says:

      This is the Thatcher image going on our advertising trailer he,he.

    276. handclapping says:

      For others, like me, who are scunnered by web sites demanding information they have no right or need to have I keep the details of a local councillor (tory & better together hypocrite) which I use to fill any blank spaces.

      Now that I like. Permission to use the idea, please?

    277. Les Wilson says:

      First off Alex Salmond is a Patriot, I have watched him at times through his career and he has never changed his tune, he has always wanted Scotland to govern itself in his absolute belief that the whole country will be better of making our own decisions.

      He has had the worst personal campaign against him, thanks to the articles of lies and manipulations of the whole of the MSM. Yet he has not buckled, and I do not know how, as very many would have such has been the non stop viciousness towards him. Time we called a halt and boost his image anywhere we can. We should be proud of him AND his team, they work so very hard, for our benefit. No one touches him for personal commitment as far as politics are concerned. Individually we are all committed here, but we are never near his level.

      I for one am proud to have him working for Scotland at this time.

      Aside/ I rather fancy a poster, remember the one with oil running out of Thatchers eyes, it worked last time around, maybe it would work this time too. But I would rather like to see it ramped up a bit ie Thatcher smiling at Cameron and him back both with the oil from the eyes , smiling, with a forceful caption, preferably something about being happy to steal Scotland’s resources. Someone could come up with a better caption than I could. Have tons printed and start putting them up everywhere about 3-4 weeks before the referendum date.

      Just a thought!

    278. X_Sticks says:

      “Look, we’re moderating out 90% of your comments now because they’re frankly boring and add nothing to the debate”, ”
      Can you point me to that statement? Links Links!

    279. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TMITJ –
      Don’t  get down mister.
      If you’re keen to do streetwork, but haven’t anyone else to do it with, why not just hook up with your local SSP? I’m not a spokesperson, but I can’t imagine they’d object to you standing with or near them when they’re doing their thing – Yes East Ayrshire and SSP North Ayrshire have often shared virtually the same patch in Ayr High Street.
      Doing streetwork alone is not a good idea – I’m sure you can look after yourself, but it’s more from a legal/corroborative point of view – if someone starts giving you a hard time, or you encounter a cop who’s in a bad mood, they can make life very difficult for you if they realise you’re alone.
      If you want, I can take your details and let you know when we’re next out in Ayrshire – might be a bit of a trip for you, but you’d be made very welcome – it won’t mean you’ve joined the SSP!
      (ian [at] stevenston4 [dot] fsnet [dot] co [dot] uk)

    280. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Can you point me to that statement? Links Links!”

      No, because Newsnet has no search function (still, FFS) and I’m not spending all night looking for it. I’ve paraphrased it a bit, but not much.

    281. Morag says:

      You have every right to critisise, but you are totally OTT with “borderline fascists” and “judgemental holier-than-thou attitude” and I think you should rescind those comments.
      That’s my opinion, and you’re entitled to disagree with me.  Some of the NNS articles are excellent, usually the signed ones, but others are simply annoying – the ones where they try to ape the Scotsman.  However, my main complaint is that they are extremely unfriendly.  See the comments of several other people.  Being unfriendly is not the way to get large donations.
      However, that wasn’t really my point.  My point was the difference between bunging a tenner to a good appeal for a decent web site, and (for those that can afford it) digging a lot deeper and chucking in a few hundred.  Stu has an attitude that prompts the latter reaction, and you need a fair few of these if you’re after several tens of thousands.  I don’t think either Bella or NNS has the sort of model that generates that level of enthusiasm.  They’re worthy, and £40,000 needs more than worthy.
      Now several posters on Wings have in the past been so scunnered by NNS that they have suggested they’re some sort of unionist fifth column.  Go quarrel with them if you want to defend the site.

    282. Donald Kerr says:

      @The Man in the Jar
      I’m in Bothwell. I haven’t been involved in any groups, leafleting or stalls so far with my contribution being limited to Facebook, Twitter and donations to a load of the sites (several times). I share your frustrations with the official Yes campaign (if you’re reading ‘Yes’ then take notice). Have been waiting for 2014 to do something positive here in the local area so get in touch and let’s get started! DM me on Twitter @donaldiainkerr 

    283. Morag says:

      No, because Newsnet has no search function (still, FFS) and I’m not spending all night looking for it. I’ve paraphrased it a bit, but not much.
      I remember it, but it’s buried in the back catalogue.  That was more or less what they said.  They would have been far far better simply to have removed the comment facility altogether.  Enticing people to make a comment, then holding it up so long in moderation that the poster forgets where they posted it and all dialogue is impossible is not the way to make friends, influence people or open their PayPal logins.

    284. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      @Rev Stu
      “No, because Newsnet has no search function (still, FFS) and I’m not spending all night looking for it. I’ve paraphrased it a bit, but not much.”
      Ask and you shall receive…

    285. Albert Herring says:

      “and started theirs after the Bella one”
      Seem to remember they did that to the first Wings fundraiser too.
      What’s that all about?

    286. Memphisto says:

      In the spirit of collaboration I can see several possibilities as to why the Bloom site loads slowly.  I am a web developer / programmer with 12 years experience building and optimising sites and can offer advice if they are interested. 

    287. theycan'tbeserious says:

      Donated earlier on Yes site…via paypal….no problems?

    288. Doug Daniel says:

      “Seem to remember they did that to the first Wings fundraiser too.
      What’s that all about?”
      I think it went something a bit like that episode of South Park where Canada went “hey, we want some of that internet money!”

    289. Betsy says:

      I have been trying to donate via Bloom but have been defeated because the ‘prove your not a robot’ bit has a divide sign in it. My keyboard doesn’t have a divide sign in it and all attempts to make one or substitute a slash have ended in failure. If push come to shove I’ll donate directly to Yes but I’d rather the appeal was seen to reach it’s total given ther’s already been a bit sneering and grinning. If anyone knows how to make a divide sign in a way that doesn’t make Bloom angry, I’d be delighted for your expertise. 

    290. Colin *M* says:

      I’ve donated to all three now. The one everyone is complaining about, the Yes Scotland fundraiser on Bloom is not really Yes Scotland’s fault. The Bloom website is awful.

      I’m a software developer and consider myself reasonably competent in these things and reasonably good at thinking in the odd ways that some software developers think when they are trying to give themselves an easy life (or management is breathing down their neck wanting something out the door right now and user experience just flies out the window!)… And even I went around in circles a couple of times.

      The site really needs a thorough going over by someone who is competent at designing a proper and well thought out user experience.

      I had a look at the Bloom general website and for a company that deals with using social media a lot there was absolutely nothing for a careers section on the site (I was trying to get a gauge on what their technologies were, and what their job specs look like as that is a big indicator of company culture). It seems that the company culture is based around a central figure… And unless you are Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Richard Branson that doesn’t work for me at all. It is a right turn off. The founder’s ego should be secondary or even tertiary to the goals of the company.

      I may be completely wrong about that, but that’s just the impression I got.

    291. Jim says:

      If I have to use anything other than my index finger to donate then you can forget it, not going to happen. I considered donating to Yes, especially when I saw they were struggling to reach their target on the donation site, but you know what? Fuck them. If they can’t be arsed sorting their shit out so they aren’t throwing obstacles in front of me then I can’t be arsed handing over money. Bloody amateur hour.

    292. Boorach says:

      @ handclapping
      Feel free, lets fill their in-boxes with as much crap as we possibly can!
      @Rev Stu
      Don’t know why but personal info boxes have stopped retaining info recently. Could this be an ipad quirk, have recently upgraded to ios7? Any help you can offer a numpty gratefully received.

    293. Andrew Morton says:

      Re the filth being chucked all over Alex Salmond. i know two guys in the Labour organisation at Westminster (OK, I’m actually related to one and the other is his mate but I try to keep it quiet because I want to keep the information coming) I’ve asked them in the past why this is going on and they were perfectly frank with me,
      “Look, the problem that Scottish Labour has is that they’re crap and the SNP are really, really good, so it’s difficult to attack their policies and organisation because they’d just get egg on their faces. So the only thing left is to try to hurl as much abuse at Salmond and pray that it sticks!”

    294. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

      wow ..
      I was going to come back and say … I donated via Blooms not because it was easy but because it was hard, but after I’d carefully unselected an option to send me emails and make my donation public and found they were reselected after I’d updated my email address to the very same email address, and had to enter a city when I’m not in a city and had to enter UK for my country, which is an abomination ,,, I found there was going to be two debits. Whit?! Sorry I could not agree and bailed out.

    295. Colin *M* says:

      @Amanda Boyle at 09:55 16/Dec/2013
      “As it is, we use the biggest, most secure and most accessible service in the world.”

      It [paypal] is also one of the cheapest to set up. To add to my previous comment, I’m guessing management pressure was more the reason for the awful user experience.

      After my experience on your site, I’m in an extremely cynical mood right now. But, I did persevere.

      One other thing I noticed: Your site has no SSL. Well, since you don’t handle the money directly (paypal has the SSL for that!) why would you? But you demand that people log in, supplying passwords (that many people reuse all over the place because the are easy to remember) which now fly through the air over WiFi connections, through multiple nodes across the internet, through networks in hotels and coffeeshops, all in plain text. Well done, you! You are compromising the security of your users.

      If you created the site with your own in-house developers, you need to train them up properly. If you used an agency, then you need to have a word with them about this as they are ripping you off and not supplying you with a site that is designed well. If you just simply didn’t want to shell out the money for an SSL certificate then more fool you!

    296. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Could this be an ipad quirk, have recently upgraded to ios7?”

      You mad fool. iOS7 is so utterly and catastrophically riddled with bugs it seems highly likely that that’s one of them. No other reports.

    297. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Donald Kerr
      Hi and thanks for the heads up. Like you I am eager to get started but like yourself feel that the timing might be a bit early for overt campaigning in Bothwell but want to do something / anything!
      I dont use twitter or facebook but will meet up if you suggest a time and place.

    298. Marian says:

      Couldn’t agree more with you that having so many appeals at the same time in the run up to Christmas wasn’t the sharpest thing to do.

      I would have donated to Newsnet and Bella but for the timing.

      However I made a donation to YES Scotland online by credit card on 2 December and received an email thank you from YES Scotland that same day – no problems.

      Also sent a cheque to SNP on 2 December but haven’t heard a cheep from them yet and waiting until I get my next bank statement to see if cheque has been cashed.

      I look forward to donating again to my favourite and best pro-independence website though in late February and March!

    299. Morag says:

      It seems to be easy to donate to Yes Scotland by any way other than this Blooms thing.  But these donations won’t count towards the total that will be mocked by BT.
      This was a brain-dead idea.  Quite unsuitable for an organisation like YS, a hostage to fortune, and merely gifting money to Blooms when it has to be made up through existing funds.
      Lots of people seem to have gone off-piste due to the difficulties with the online payment system.  I donate £20 a month, every month, for more than a year now, precisely to save having to keep putting my hand in my pocket for repeated appeals. That doesn’t count either.
      It’s bonkers.

    300. dadsarmy says:

      @ Amanda @ Bloom

      Your ping is very short identically with mine, and traceroute shows exactly why. Been there years, service above and beyond, even accounts dept free and easy, never regretted moving to dedicated server there, 100.0% uptime apart from planned maintenance and pending disk failure caught in advance (now on RAID).

      Your customer complaints are your best friend not your enemy, I’ve made several changes to my sites over many years because of them, ironically one due from yesterday – it just needs “DAP Incoterms – Delivered at Place – Your Address” or similar added in a T&C about customs duty which they pay and probably on order pages. Another more major enhancement though due after reading this thread 🙂

      Your first change needed, it’ll take you minutes to put a paypal logo on the landing page for every fund.

    301. dadsarmy says:

      @ YESScotland
      I’ve telt ye and I’ve telt ye, your website doesn’t work with IE8, the pages are half covered by that floating panel. No, the answer is not to upgrade my browser, it’s not me needs to read your pages, it’s the other 15% of internet surfers who still use IE8 according to my web logs, can read bettertogether propaganda, but can’t get the corresponding stuff from you.
      That represents up to a 30% swing from NO to YES, what’s that you say you need, 9.5% + 1 from the last poll? Well, get it fixed, pronto, it lets all of us down who work so hard for Independence.

    302. dadsarmy says:

      @ Rev
      Congratulations on this article and the thread, I wish I had so many customers criticising my websites, it’s only because I always listened to previous complaining customers and acted on what they said that I survive in my business.
      Don’t know about Bloom, but YES Scotland seem to be as deaf as a doorpost. If they were a business, they’d be out of business.

      Only 9 months to go, a lot to do.

    303. dadsarmy says:

      @ YES
      Go to microsoft and download IE8. Yes you can, I checked for you. Delete Internet Explorer or whatever you use from one computer, and install IE8. Look at your webstie (deliberate mis-spelling) and weep. It’s been like it for months.
      YES campaigners, keep up the good work, my comments weren’t aimed at you! And just in case I get too busy to come back, a Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year. Next year it’ll be a Happy New Year last one in the Union 🙂

    304. Andrew Morton says:

      Have you been deleting cookies to read the Herald? If so it’ll delete your info here too.

    305. Tasmanian says:

      I’ve done some tests: you CANNOT create a Bloom account if you leave the mobile phone field blank, even though it pretends that’s OK.

      You CAN create a Bloom account if you put their own phone number into the mobile phone field. You can find it on the ‘About’ page.

      But you’re required to have a PayPal account to make a pledge, and stuff that. YesScotland can have my money by direct donation, if I remember to give it to them. (If I order a bumper sticker will they send it to Australia?)

      Re security: for passwords I like to pick phrases like “Bloom has a really silly website” which can’t be automatically reused. Doesn’t matter if I forget the password; I tend to rely on the forget-password function.

      The website looks and works exactly like KickStarter, except KickStarter doesn’t mandate use of the evil PayPal. I hate PayPal and avoid it where possible. PayPal is very fond of deciding a large flux of incoming money (particularly from overseas) is probably money-laundering, and seizing the lot, with no recourse, for years. As happened with Minecraft.

      @dadsarmy: Yes Scotland ARE going to go out of business. In nine months. One way or the other 🙂

    306. Boorach says:

      @Andrew Morton
      i have always deleted cookies and history on a daily basis and accepted that I would have to re-enter my info each morning. Never been a problem.
      Now, however, having entered usual details and posted comment the header stuff disappears and has to be entered for each successive post! Still, one advantage of retirement is having plenty of time to spare for such frustrations!!

    307. Memphisto says:

      wrt to security of that site and SSL.  The chances anyone listens to traffic on a network even in a public place is quite remote.  And since the payments themselves are protected by SSL then the point is moot.  Use a unique password for the site, as suggested above, if you are only going to use this or any site only a few times especially if its a public computer as you never know what has been installed on a machine.  In fact I wouldnt trust a public network for anything apart from browsing.
      dads army, the problem isnt with the server, the uptime or anything else with the network.  The site is poorly optimised for speed, which means that as traffic rises the site slows down to a crawl and this is why login/register problems occur as the server cannot complete the processes due to not having enough resources to use.  I can see a number of issues and I would be happy to offer solutions for nothing because of the Yes Scotland fundraiser.  I could probably reduce the loading time from around 10-30 seconds to at least 5 seconds if not 3 seconds. But the offer is only open for the duration of the Yes Scotland fundraiser.

    308. Chris Paton says:

      Paid in a donation – but that was bloody awkward.

    309. chalks says:

      ‘Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      16 December, 2013 at 5:08 pm

      This is a ridiculous criticism/fear. Yes Scotland use computers. Were they all made by Scottish companies? [SUB: INSERT ‘MAC’ JOKE HERE.] Did they check the provenance of all their office chairs? Are all their mobile phones made in Muckle Flugga? Do they only have haggis for lunch? For heaven’s sake, using a company outside Scotland to provide a particular service isn’t the same thing as soliciting foreign donations.

      As has been said before – we all need to be a lot less bothered about what the No camp and the media say. If we’ve learned nothing else in the last two years, it’s that they can put a negative spin on anything, and if they can’t find one they’ll just make one up. So let’s get on with the job and let them bleat as much as they want.’
      REV, I agree to an extent, but the hardcore yes supporters who have turned the funding into being a success after a rallying call, would not pay into something if they knew that the money was going to offshore registered companies WHEN there is a viable Scottish alternative.

      It’s not so much the No campaign that I am on about, it’s our own supporters you don’t want to piss off.  Which judging by the comments about navigating the actual pay site, seems to have happened anyway….
      Just seems silly to have the majority of us bleating on about the UK being a tax haven and how it needs to change….to then use a company signed up to this when there would have been a scottish option that pays its taxes
      Not expecting them to use only Scottish made products….sadly that isn’t possible anymore : )

    310. msean says:

      Thanks Tasmanian,I tried the putting their own number in the mobile field and it worked.Great how you need all that security info just to find that it ‘works’ with a number that isn’t a mobile and isn’t your own.Saying that,don’t even know if it went through,but every little donation helps.Hopefully lessons will be learned.

    311. Morag says:

      I’ve telt ye and I’ve telt ye, your website doesn’t work with IE8, the pages are half covered by that floating panel. No, the answer is not to upgrade my browser, it’s not me needs to read your pages, it’s the other 15% of internet surfers who still use IE8 according to my web logs, can read bettertogether propaganda, but can’t get the corresponding stuff from you.
      Too right.  I’m stuck with IE8 on my work computer because I don’t have admin rights to it and can’t update the browser.  Yes Scotland’s web site is impossible to read.  That is true of a few other sites (Indiegogo and Derek Bateman aren’t good) but most load fine, including Wings.  It’s not rocket science.  And NEVER blame your customer by the way.

    312. Morag says:

      WHEN there is a viable Scottish alternative
      I think the consensus is that it ISN’T a viable alternative.  That’s what the cross words are about.

    313. Tasmanian says:

      There are excellent reasons for a retailer or payment provider to have your contact number, and I hope to one day learn what they are. I think it might be so they can contact you in case of trouble? I routinely use something like 07000 000 000 (well, 0400 000 000 now I’m in Australia).

      Chalks, it seems that ‘viable’ is an arguable adjective in this case!

    314. chalks says:

      Morag….indeed, I acknowledge that if you continue reading….of course, would we have found out it was not viable had we not tried to use it?

    315. A2 says:

      Actually would it be such a disaster if the bloom appeal failed?
      Can’t see naughty Blair resisting the temptation to carp about it with the papers giving it Plenty coverage.

      Put that hot on the heels of the BT donations and his proclamations about how much better yes is funded, it’s got to make some more people realise that he’s  um, an unreliable source of information.

    316. Donald Kerr says:

      @The Man in the Jar Good stuff. Let’s leave it until the new year. We’ll get a hold of some others and get started on the local campaign trail.

    317. Looks like the Bloom appeal may succeeed – they only need £1100 in three days.
      I’ve now succeeded in donating/promising.
      Come on folks, one more wee push.

    318. dadsarmy says:

      Yes, I was being nice before being critical! In fact the ping at yesscotland is only 1 ms slower than mine in docklands whereas bettertogether is about 110 and traces to Seattle, but the speed’s the same,  though BT works and YS don’t for me and IE8.
      Yes, corporates and most businesses don’t allow workstations to update, as they want only one version to support, but more importantly new versions might not work with their intranet, so they have to test, perhaps upgrade all the intranet, then upgrade the browser.
      The least support for YES is amongst those that have reasonable jobs, likely in corporates, and very possibly stuck on IE8. As the Yanks would say, go figure.

    319. dadsarmy says:

      I checked YESScotland wqeeks ago and the reason the main page is OK whereas all others aren’t is probably the way the sniffer code is used. Anyone can look at how most web pages are put together; in IE it’s right click, view source, and there you are. On YESscotland they have for instance <!–[if IE 8]><html class=”lt-ie9″  lang=”en” dir=”ltr”><![endif]–> or later on <!–[if lt IE 9]>
          <script src=”/sites/all/themes/zen/js/html5-respond.js”></script>
      Can’t remember and can’t be bothered now, but it’s different on the faulty pages – perhaps one person with one publishing software does the main page, whereas another does the article pages. It’s also obvious that yesscotland and dont know of the existence of – the idea is that if pages are at least valid html, they’re more likely to be cross-browser.
      Sorry to bore, but it bugs the hell out of me how many sites are invalid. I don’t mean bloggers, I mean huge organisations. Oh, another boring thing, when they cut and past code for including twitter, linkedin facebook etc. it’s mostly invalid but needs small changes like making & to amp ; without the space between amp and ;

    320. Ewan MacKenzie says:

      It’s fully funded now, but I thought I’d donate anyway to see if the process was as bad as some were saying.
      And the process certainly needs some work – in fact, it needs to be comprehensively redesigned – but I managed to donate ok. But it seems daft to have Paypal as the only way of donating, and it also seems daft to have an all-or-nothing funding model for this kind of campaign.
      I hope Bloom take note of the comments on this thread and improve their site. We’re going to need lots of wee businesses like them, post-indy. 

    321. dadsarmy says:

      Got distracted forgot to edit. That should be &amp ; and software versions not software.

    322. Anne Graham says:

      heraldnomore says:
       … So they’ve got my money, and will get more, but it won ‘t show up in the fund which is sad as we all know the media are waiting to pounce.”

      It’s also true that money won’t show up as donations if made by sneaky people like me, who go to the donations page, then think “wait a wee minute  here:  might be as useful (AND it sounds as though a great deal easier) to buy stuff..”  What I mean is that people reminded by WoS to contribute to Yes Scotland  might have done so by way of buying badges, posters, New Year cards etc.,  and I suspect that sort of thing will not show up in a ‘reaching donations target’ thing.  If it doesn’t show up, then more jolly fun for the “Daily Record” and the “Daily Mail” and the “Scotsman” etc. to crow about, but focussing on donations as such might not be the most accurate view of things.   Of course, the said “newspapers”  never do bother about accuracy very much.  🙂

      Also, there can be people who think “Eek!  I just don’t have spare money this week, but I will make a New Year resolution to pay, or to make a standing order, even if small”.

    323. Memphisto says:

      This gives the coder the ability to target specific browsers, it is trivial
      <!–[if IE 8]><html class=”lt-ie9?  lang=”en” dir=”ltr”><![endif]–>
      This gives the coder access to functionality not available on IE8 and below, again trivial
      <!–[if lt IE 9]>
          <script src=”/sites/all/themes/zen/js/html5-respond.js”></script>
      I assure you it aint easy when you have 4 major browsers that have anything between 10 and 40 versions, targeting half a dozen screen resolutions with each browser having its own set of features, and its own set of annoying bugs!

    324. Hi everyone
      The Yes Scotland crowdfund hits its target late last night. With two days left to run it’s likely to far exceed that target. I recognise that the coverage, criticism and debate on this website helped drive traffic to the crowdfund, so thanks very much to all of you who persevered and pledged a donation, and to those of you who made a direct donation to Yes Scotland through our own website instead. 
      Once again, my apologies that so many of you experienced problems with the third party Bloom VC system. It won’t happen again.
      All best
      Stan Blackley, Deputy Director of Communities, Yes Scotland

    325. Horacesaysyes says:

      That’s good to hear, Stan. 🙂

    326. Bill_T says:

      Congrats to YesScotland on their successful crowdfnding effort.
      What confuses me, somewhat, is why (at time of writing) the amount raised is £16,195. But the sum, from the pledges, is £24,402?
      Does this mean that Bloom are taking 33%?

    327. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Donald Kerr
      Dont know if you will catch this?
      Agreed I may even have another attempt at opening a twitter account. 😉

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