Wings Over Scotland

Sadly, it will take a lot more than seven maids with seven mops to wash those two wastrels away.

The likes of Mundell likely know that their are no other jobs for talentless individuals, where it is possible to learn over 150k per year, whilst effectively doing nothing but betray your own country. That is also why the thickest people on planet earth also pop up saying any old rubbish for the Labour party in Scotland. James Kelly MSP, for example, will also likely know that outside of being a labour MSP (and earning over 70k per year), he might well be filling shelves at Aldi.

That is why Labour MSPs regularly say things they know to be wholly untrue and, frankly, stupid. It is about their own self interest. They say what London tells them to say. The political gravy train. If you had zero talent, were thick as mince and no skills, wouldn’t you?

You might call it ‘the Margaret Curran’ syndrome’.

Mundell and his cabal of craven Tory weasels will, in my opinion, say and do anything, so long as he pockets his 150k salary plus expenses, plus free flights to London for him and his family, subsidised food and drink, PLUS (I do not doubt) his promised ermine robes and free 300 pounds a day for the rest of his life). These are the REAL enemies of Scotland.

For London’s gold they are bought and sold. Principles have nothing to do with it.

Cabbages indeed!

Ouch! That’s a belter Chris, well done. They say the truth hurts don’t they.

Hey didle didle the Walrus speak’s in riddle , the man wie the bag is ah right slag an baith ur oota tune they might as weil be howling at the moon .

Oh, I love the reference to the Walrus and the Carpenter, Chris. Neat. I hope we are not the oysters, for ‘they’d eaten ever one.’ Beautifully composed cartoon, too.

Your essential weekend reading:

‘Chagos Shows Us the Way’: link to wp.me
‘A Very English Parliament’: link to wp.me

It is far to cleaver for me, I prefer the cartons where in don’t have to think very hard on a Saturday morning.

Breaking:

UK Government agrees out of court settlement with the Jumblies for awarding sieve contract to Owl & the Pussy Cat Holdings Plc without following proper procurement processes (some honey, and plenty of money, wrapped up in a five pound note).

Sorry this is OT so early but nearly time for my zzzz as I have been rather busy

@ yesindyref2

Since you are a Defence buff this may interest you

North Korea

Viewer rating PG

link to m.youtube.com

When does a wet dream end with the waking realisation you are drowning?

@Valerie

Rumour has it he is something of a collector, just can’t keep his hands off them.

27 days before we are all `through the looking glass`,

“But I don’t want to go among mad people,”

i doubt even Lewis Carroll could make up characters like,

Mundell,May,Gove,Fox,Ross,Mogg,Murdo,Tomkins.

Marvellous cartoon Chris, butt I wonder where that thumb of Thomsons going? Walrus Mundell looks well eager and receptive ????.Both are Tweedledumbers.

Gonna go a bit deep here, but I once saw a program about horse whispering. It wasn’t your cliched mumbo jumbo about supernatural powers, but it was pretty profound all the same.

I remember one segment of the program recalled the horse whisperer having an epiphany, because when giving talks and lectures about his horse whispering, he noticed there were often various women in his audience who appeared distressed to a degree, and often moved to tears. To cut a long story short, these women were listening to the mechanisms and techniques used to control the responses of a horse, but recognised many uncomfortable parallels with their own subjugation and control in an abusive relationship.

The gist of the actual horse whispering had it origins in the First American culture, who had observed the behaviour of wild horses, and the way the stallion could hold together a herd of 50+ horses. It wasn’t just the way he asserted dominance, but created within his “harem” a strong desire or need to stay part of the herd.

The Stallion would chase down a particular mare for many miles, never letting it rest, feed, or drink, and keep stressing the mare until she was exhausted, but then the stallion would change its behaviour, show kindness and compassion, which seemed to amplified in the mind of the exhausted mare, which was so very relieved by the pause in stressful treatment. The process would then start all over again.

Next thing you know, the mare was submissive to the Stallion, actually started to follow the Stallion, and began to follow its lead when to rest, feed and drink etc. Something had changed inside the mare’s head.

There is something physiological in the horse whispering… it is actual behaviour control which uses stresses and relaxations, positive inducements and negative consequences applied to a mind that has been already prepared and made receptive to the conditioning.

The women in the audience who were bursting into tears where recognising the way their own behaviour had been controlled by their abusive partners stressing them out, being unpredictable, and frankly just wearing them down to demure subservience just to avoid the anxiety of confrontation. They put up with the shite because they’d convinced themselves there was no escape, then kidded on they were happy to fool themselves.

People often cite the Walrus and the Carpenter as an allegory of competing religions consuming the souls of the niaive believers. Maybe it is, I don’t know. But for me, it’s all about behaviour control. It is Oyster whispering in action.

The relevance? It’s difficult to articulate. Many of our fellow Scots are indoctrinated in their thinking. For a start, they’re not actually thinking at all. The constant denigration of Scotland, the belittling, the abuses and ridicule of our culture, the rewriting of our history, the disrespect… we are predisposed to anxiety. We are “discouraged” from feeling good about ourselves, and our self confidence is jittery at best. But then we have terribly “British” sweeteners, the occasional treat thrown our way, how we’re great soldiers, or “worthy” recipients of ermine robes, promotions, and better jobs. Life is more rewarding if you drink from the British cup and reject the pride you should feel in your country as heresy.

The British Establishment, it’s powermongers, it’s politictians, it’s civil servants, and of course it’s damned media and BBC are all accomplished in the art of Scots Whispering. It is our behaviours being conditioned and indoctrinated, and I’ll be brutally honest with you, I fear our pro Indy forces, our SNP Government at both Holyrood and Westminster seemed stunned and incapacitated, when they could and should be shaking the United Kingdom to its rotten foundations.

We are all of us Oysters, and March 29th is our dinner date.

We must break our conditioning. All we have at our disposal that is immune to this indoctrination is the binary world of Constitutional absolutes… If we the Scots are Sovereign, then NOBODY else is. We MUST weaponise our Constitutional strength and break the Union’s back over Brexit.

You still want to prevaricate until you know the details? That detail above is the only one you need to know. FIGHT BREXIT and take no prisoners. Scotland stays in Europe by order of the Sovereign people of Scotland. There are 27 days left to do this. What the mutha-f-ck are we waiting for???

Spotted this in a tweet.

Exclusive: Internal report by German Parliament warns that #Brexit extension beyond May EU election breaks EU law. Legal action against U.K. only one possible consequence @welt

Nothing to worry about though, I hear Mrs May has given the brief to Chris Grayling to handle.

jfngw 10.25am

And the price a one single smart bomb for one of their fancy jets costs about £100,000.

Or the £270 Billion pounds they are willing to fork out
for their Trident nuclear missile programme.

In an independent Scotland this money will getting spent on the people.

@Breeks (10.07) –

Thought-provoking stuff there, cheers.

😉

Good one Chris. The ”Walrus and the Carpenter” a poem said to epitomise encroachment, entitlement, abuse and exploitation of others to get what they want. Fits the Tories to a tee. Too bad for them the worms … eh oysters … have turned.

……………………………………………

@ Breeks @ 10:07am …..

BRILLIANT post Breeks and when I read this, and another couple that you posted recently, I just wish that you would consider submitting them to the ”Long Letter” page of the National.

Really interesting ”stallion” story and clearly highlights the concept of ”gaslighting” that someone on here was asking about recently. Demonstrates succinctly the Scottish / English relationship over the last 300 years or so.

Breeks: ”The Stallion would chase down a particular mare for many miles, never letting it rest, feed, or drink, and keep stressing the mare until she was exhausted, but then the stallion would change its behaviour, show kindness and compassion, which seemed to amplified in the mind of the exhausted mare, which was so very relieved by the pause in stressful treatment. The process would then start all over again.” …

Breeks: Next thing you know, the mare was submissive to the Stallion, actually started to follow the Stallion, and began to follow its lead when to rest, feed and drink etc. Something had changed inside the mare’s head.”…

……………………………..

Breeks: ”To cut a long story short, these women were listening to the mechanisms and techniques used to control the responses of a horse, but recognised many uncomfortable parallels with their own subjugation and control in an abusive relationship.”…..

Breeks: ”The women in the audience who were bursting into tears where recognising the way their own behaviour had been controlled by their abusive partners stressing them out, being unpredictable, and frankly just wearing them down to demure subservience just to avoid the anxiety of confrontation. They put up with the shite because they’d convinced themselves there was no escape, then kidded on they were happy to fool themselves.”

I’ve met two women in the last 3 months alone Breeks who have broken down and shed buckets of tears when they finally realised that they had been married to a narcissist and had been ”gaslighted” over many years. In one instance for over forty years. For them it was a watershed moment, an enlightening, and more than anything a relief as it helped them to understand the confusion that they had lived with and the feeling of ”craziness” (them being crazy) that had reigned in their lives. From that day on the ”fog” has lifted, both have left their partners and are now well on their way to recovery.

Let’s hope that more and more Scots too are beginning to see that they have been gaslighted, waken up and see the light … the truth … and help to rid us of our narcissistic partner. Enable us, Scotland, to ESCAPE.

A fine rendering of The Governor General Mr Cairns, dare i say he’s looking even more magisterial than real life, if such a thing were possible.
RT couldnae join hands, and i should know, being a veteran chippy.

I’m guessing what he’s hiding behind his back, is the handcuff he hasn’t sawn off yet.
😉

I hope the party is fab guys & gals.

There’s a game you could play.
It’s called ‘Spot the Spook’.

Reporter = 1pt
MI5 = 2pts
SIU gimp = 3pts
Rock = You win!

@ Robert Peffers says at 11:23 am … Breeks says: 2 March, 2019 at 10:07 am:” … Gonna go a bit deep here,” ”Don’t you always?” … I fear our pro Indy forces, our SNP Government at both Holyrood and Westminster seemed stunned and incapacitated, when they could and should be shaking the United Kingdom to its rotten foundations.” And, eventually we get to the usual, Breeks, not so hidden agenda of, “SNP BAAAAD!”. It sometimes takes a long preamble to get there but it always does. In the Breeks comments the villains are always the FM/SG/SNP who, if you were to believe Breeks, are doing nothing because they have been brainwashed by the Westminster Establishment and they don’t know more than Breeks knows and we should all do as Breeks says and not listen to the false FM/SG/SNP. Aye! Richt!”

I think that most people reading that post Robert will take that part with a pinch of salt. SNP politicians have known the truth, the ins and outs of Westminster ploys, from day one hence fighting, not ”stunned and incapacitated”, for our Independence and have been / still are the only politicians shaking the UK ”to its rotten foundations.” Shaking it so much so that Westminster is quaking in its shoes at the very thought of another IndyRef.

Breeks, do you really think Cherry, Blackford, etc are blind to establishment strategy.

Good initial point, irrelivantly ruined by your own finger pointing.

There could only ever one candidate for the Cheshire moggy. Right century too.

KG here. Im heading for the WoS meetup later at Dows see you there.

Great post Luigi

I don’t remember Treeza ever saying No to a second Indy ref.

She has always used the term “now is not the time…”.

Which is completely different from saying No.

I think we have all the legal requirements on our side with the mandate we have.

And when it finally comes down to it, we will get our referendum.

Since UKLabour are now supporting a 2nd EURef it might be that after Brexit UKLabour will put SM+CU with EU in their party manifesto in order to spike SNP indy plan.

@ breeks.

Very good post, worth reading properly.

@Ian B
Thanks for pointing out Breeks’s posting, I’d skipped past it when I saw “horse whispering”.

@Breeks
Yes, good post.

The issue with the Brexit situation is that not a few of us is wondering why Scottish politics appears to be in the doldrums at such a time of ‘crisis’. England is as usual leading the dance. Scotland seems a wallflower waiting for an opportunity to get on the floor.
If a referendum is in the mind of the SNP leadership we ought to be firing up the independence propaganda machinery right now. The British State’s staying in our getting out of the EU has nothing to do with that. The public is growing bored and weary with the endless, fruitless London politicking, we need to cut to the chase, and on our terms.

Excellent cartoon. May as the Red Queen and it would be complete. I can’t recall a time when UK politics was as fantastical and chaotic as now. It really is as dangerous and madcap as Wonderland.

We need to get off this fairground ride asap.

@Bob Mack at 12.15

If they try eating us oysters, let’s give them a right bout of indigestion!

Abulhaq 1.34pm

“we ought to be firing up the independence propaganda machinery right now”.

Could not agree more. This is the time for building, indyref2 when it comes is the lever.

Dear Nicola,

Please tell Breeks your indy plans, as clearly you are doing feck all unless he knows about it.
……..

Sorry to say it Breeks, but that is how your underlying message/mantra comes across, which completely undermines otherwise decent posts.

I was reading your horse whisperer post with interest as an exercise in ‘Proud Scot But’ indoctrination, but i just knew it was coming….”SNP HOPELESS”

And as always, you didn’t disappoint.

Since you seem sure of what the Scotsgov and Nicola are NOT doing, perhaps you could inform us as to what they ARE doing, since you seem to know everthing about indy tactics ?

Personally, all i need to know is that in 2014 WE as Scots let the SNP down, THEY got us an indyref and WE fecked it up.

In 2019, THE SNP are on the verge of getting us another opportunity to take our independence once more, in full knowledge that if an indyref is NOT delivered IN THIS PARLIAMENT (a detail people always forget due to obvious ukexit pressures, although, imagine calling an indyref after 18 months of post ukexit shambles/devastation) then the SNP will pay a heavy political price at the ballot box.

If anyone thinks they would risk their very existance as a government force by not having an effective plan, they must be playing with a short deck.

When i was a top class junior middle distance athlete many moons ago, i had a tactical plan to suit who i was racing against, did I ….

a) tell my opponents my plan?

b) show them at the critical point when they could not counter effectively ?

My PARENTS were not even privy to my tactical race planning, hell, sometimes i even surprised my coach.

But i ALWAYS had a plan, and almost always an effective one.

@Luigi says: 2 March, 2019 at 12:48 pm:

” … Worryingly, Nicola seems to have ruled out a ref without an agreed S30 and this would be a big mistake IMO.”

Not true, Luigi. Nicola has categorically stated that no matter what happens she will call an indyref2 with or without a section 30 order, and in the very near future.

It has been widely reported here on Wings and references given to the sources including those to Nicola herself.

@ Breeks 10.07

A post with lots to think about. We seem so often full of insecurity self-doubt as a country and it must come from somewhere. I think you have given as good an illustration as any others out there.

This self-doubt is everywhere. The proposed Central Bank provoked lots of responses from supporters and detractors alike. The detractors say stuff like

‘There won’t be enough money to back it up.
Why would I put my money into Scotland?
I’ll put my savings where they will be safe – anywhere but Scotland’

It seems ridiculous, after everything that we know now about the mismanagement of the Financial sector and UK Government and banking collusion there are some who still find the idea that looking after your own resources is too much of a risk and bow to the UK banking sector. Who can make it a safe investment? The people who have faith enough to back it.

While we have dependent families and financial insecurity there is always a niggle that is it worth the risk? I have a relative who said quite seriously that if they were retired and their family grown up they would devote everything to Independence but just now it is too risky!

That mentality of dependence and being risk-averse is still a stumbling block and where does it come from? Better(Together) the Devil You Know!

Independence is a huge leap of faith for some people still but as time goes on it has become obvious to me that Independence is not only the best choice it is imperative that we take control of our own resources and destiny. That is a change in mindset many have to still make.

Now, how to get there? Holyrood 2021 seems too far away. I feel real anxiety that the process needs to be started before then. Are those we have given our mandate to up to the task? Are they moving quickly enough? I confess to some niggling doubts there which will anger some of the posters here. Hopefully, I will get something to assuage that anxiety soon, but just now I feel we need something, anything, from those that demand somewhat blind faith.

Lenny Hartley @ 14:16,

I hesitate to expand another O/T discusssion, but I believe it’s due to environmental pressure (or absence thereof). Evolution stagnates in a stable environment and accelerates under stress.

Same in politics. A party that doesn’t adapt under great change will eventually go under. As we can see happening with NorthBritLab right now. Instead of adapting to altered circumstances, it is desperately trying to maintain its familiar environment against all the odds. Meanwhile the SNP has successfully occupied the changed environmental niche.

Adapt or die. With no change, it’s not a question of “if” it will die out, just a question of “when”.

Robert Peffers @ 15:06:

there are most certainly commenters on Wings who are deliberately doing their best to discredit anything and everything that the FM/SG/SNP does or attempts to do.

Yes there are, but far fewer than you seem to think!

Equating each and every fair expression of doubt over strategy and timing with trolling doesn’t serve open debate, RP.

macart‘s posting upthread @ 12:22 is a commendable recognition of where we are, I think.

‘Twas brylcream on the slimey coves
They tried to gamble on their waves;
For Mumsies’ job, the Boris, Goves,
And Moggy too, their hairstyles gave.

“Beware, the job they want, May’s on!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the JayCee bird, and shun
The fluffy Scottish bounder, natch!”

She took her verbal sword in hand:
Long time the maxim ‘slow’ she sought-
So rested by the Tum-ti-Tum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in huffy thought she stood.
A Gibberjock, with eyes of shame,
Came waffling through Hard Brexit wood,
And blubbered as it came!

One two! One two! and through and through
The verbal blade went snicker-snack!
She left it dead, and with its head
She went galumphing back.

“And hast thou slain the Gibberjock?
Come to my arms, my Bringlish girl!
O fabulous day! Close down Callaise!
She chortled in her thrill.

Thepnr @ 15:09,

The reference to “2025” mentions “the BBC”, so you could be right about that one at least. Though it still seems to me to originate in unhelpful loose talk from someone who should have known better. (And I can even guess who.) And not the first, other such being well documented at that. And if it’s fake news, why repeat it bare and unchallenged like that?

On the other hand, the Slorance sketch on the same page is a beaut!

link to thenational.scot

😎

@Robert Peffers “ It pulls the unionist woodworms out of the woodwork to support your claptrap”

Give it a rest Robert, according to you you’re the only person in Scotland who’s an Indy supporter, yet over 1.6 million of us voted YES in 2014.

I’ll start by discussing the progress to independence in the last few weeks thanks to the SNP:

Mibbies aye, mibbies some day, we might have our own currency.

Okay, now I’ve done that, I’m away again to do something better with my time.

Bye the noo.

Fireproofjim Lol,

Breeks & all of us

Ask not what Nicola is doing for her country

Ask what we are going to do to make sure we do not fail

Another glorious defeat is not what I wish for and for those calling for action over the past few years that is exactly what we would have had
Tories/ Labour are at their own throats and the Scottish public sees this. The unionists are seeding the doubts all by themselves.
We need to be ready for a quick referendum on Scottish Independence. 20th June 2019? Schools are still in full of enthusiastic young adults voting for their future and a few days before Bannockburn commemoration.

Great cartoon Chris. I am concerned that your work, however, is becoming a wee bit shoddy.I see that you have left a smudge on the drawing, perhaps a rubber smudge, or the leavings of a charcoally finger?

There seems to be an unintended mark just under the wee mug’s neb. Obviously a slip of the pencil eh?

//whistles innocently…

@Robert J. Sutherland says: 2 March, 2019 at 3:20 pm:

” … there are most certainly commenters on Wings who are deliberately doing their best to discredit anything and everything that the FM/SG/SNP does or attempts to do.”

Indeed there are – which of course is my point.

… Yes there are, but far fewer than you seem to think!”

Oh! Aye! And when did you acquire your long distance mind reading skills? How do you know how many I think there is?

… Equating each and every fair expression of doubt over strategy and timing with trolling doesn’t serve open debate, RP.”

Oh! Aye! And where did you get this idea I thought people were trolling? Did I mention trolls or trolling? Don’t think I did for it is much worse than trolling it is deliberate attempts to undermine trust in the First Minister, the Scottish Government and SNP.

I’ve posted it often enough that Nicola Sturgeon is easy to contact directly and her email address and other contact data is published on the Holyrood and SNP websites. The SG can be got too and their data is not hard to find on the Holyrood Parliament website.

Thing is these people do not want to get their information from the proverbial horse’s mouth – they have quite a different objective. Have you seen a single such post on Wings aimed at either Nicola, the SG or the SNP? Of course you have not because they are aimed at Wingers with the express aim of spreading doubt and despondency among Wingers.

… Macart‘s posting upthread @ 12:22 is a commendable recognition of where we are, I think.”

Which brings up yet another little facet of this matter – Is Macart or anyone else here on Wings, and very much including myself, in a position to speak on behalf of the First Minister, the Scottish Government or the SNP?

So why are these matters being asked here on Wings when it is abundantly clear that doing so is harming the cause? Why talk down the FM, SG and SNP on a forum claiming to support the independence cause?

What’s more why allow yourselves to be drawn into debating such adverse points when there are many, many readers who read but do not comment?

If you have doubts or questions why ask wingers about your doubts? Why not ask the First Minister herself? Why not ask the Scottish Government itself on their website or the SNP on their website or go along to any branch meeting. I do not recall ever seeing anyone being turned away from visiting a branch meeting.

Wings is an open forum and is read by many who are against independence. They kick off a debate that Nicola is sitting on her hands doing nothing then laugh at us getting dragged into debates exactly like you and I are having right now. Then perhaps one of the MSM outlets will tomorrow carry an item about the SNP involved in a civil war with itself.

Wings != (not equal to) SNP

@defo
Indeed, and if everybody shuts up faithfully, the point is lost.

Mmmm, QED 🙂

“Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—” Alice began

No credit for John Tenniel? He chose the carpenter, it could have been the Walrus and the Butterfly.

I am not an oyster!

Britsnats, all of them, are totally bricking it over IndyRef2. They know it’s coming, but they don’t know how and that suits us just fine (once we put aside frustration and impatience).

We have had years of anti Indy propaganda from multiple directions. Yes campaigning has been much more muted. And, moreso muted because the msm ignore and play it down. Despite all that, we sit at 50:50.

When Nicola fires the starter and YES groups of every persuasion campaign in earnest it is going to hit the BritNats like Shock and Awe . They know this and there is bugger all they can do in return. They don’t have the grassroots activists.

Ranged against us will be big and dark money. Online advertising and social media manipulation. A hostile media. However, firstly, they are going to struggle making a case that the UK is safe and secure, like in 2014. Secondly, to the undecided who has the credibility – faceless advertising and dodgy media … or happy cheerful activists, fellow Scots like themselves, who seem to be everywhere?

I am optimistic. Simple as that. All the negative opinions expressed when we are down, all the impatience, all the ideas of what’s best strategy … I am certain Nicola and the inner circle have considered it all and ‘war gamed’ it all, and more.

Returning to the demented BritNats. They know their UK has been screwed beyond resuscitate.

At Westminster all week and traipsing around doors on their weekend off. Definitely puts some of the keyboard-bound SNP complainers to shame. Why wait for the starting gun to go off? I just don’t get it when I hear people coming out with such comments. Makes us all look like a bunch of bumbling zombies.

”Great to be out with @snpclacks & fellow @theSNP #NEC members in Sauchie today campaigning to get the excellent Jane McTaggart elected. The team on on the doors included @KeithBrownSNP & @alisonthewliss #activeSNP #VoteMcTaggart1”

link to twitter.com

………………………….

”My goodness, the Tories really are terrified of the will of the Scottish people. This is not the look of a party confident in the strength of its own arguments.”

link to twitter.com

………………………………

”Isle of Man is not part of UK but is in currency union. It has never been a member of the EU but operates under Protocol 3. If Isle of Man (pop 84,500) can have its own currency & EU relationship, why can’t Scotland?”

link to twitter.com

…………………………..

Petra i have visitd the Isle of Man over 40 times, and I believe it is not in a formal currency union with the UK. So looked up wikipedia and this is what it says.

link to en.m.wikipedia.org

Mmm, I’m not convinced this is just what I had in mind:

link to youtube.com

maybe more like this:

link to youtube.com

Robert Peffers
You are quite right that there are many people who read Wings and rarely comment. I am one of those people and I keep coming back because I find it a very useful information resource (through such items as Nana’s invaluable links) and because my thinking about independence matters is informed by many of the comments and opinions btl. Indeed, I have found many of your own contributions of interest in the past.

As you say, this is an open forum and one of its strengths is the diversity of viewpoint – including different perspectives on what political strategies are most likely to bring about independence. Some of these are necessarily critical of strategies currently being adopted by the SNP and offer alternative approaches. I find these of interest and where they have appeared sensible, I have in the past brought these up at SNP branch meetings.

While I have a number of reservations about some SNP general policies, I remain a member because I believe they represent the best political force to bring about independence. I do not believe, however, that the SNP and its officials are infallible – nor do I believe that they always get it right.

I have absolutely no difficulty with exposure to alternative ideas which may or may not be critical of current SNP strategy. I do not require your protection against such “heretical “ thoughts. In fact I find your attempts to encourage uncritical adulation of all SNP policies and personnel decidedly unhealthy.

Your knee-jerk reaction to comments critical of SNP and your often insulting attempts to denigrate the commenters are tedious in the extreme and do little to encourage me to be a regular visitor to this site. They are counterproductive an I usually give them a wide berth. However, since it s a rainy Saturday afternoon, I took the trouble to read them today.

I am reminded of PG Wodehouse’s character – the Oldest Member ——“The club’s members enjoy having drinks in the clubhouse after a brisk eighteen holes, they do so fully aware of the risk that the Oldest Member who, though he has long since given up golf, has seen all and knows all, might pick up on their conversation and begin to relate a story from his experience. Once he has started talking, he cannot be stopped.”

If the cap fits…

Petra, Isle of Man definately not in a formal currency union, the Manx Government do ensure parity with Sterling but the currency union if you want to call it that is decidedly one way.
Last time I tried to exchange Manx Notes at my local bank I was knocked back!

@ Robert Peffers 5.25 pm

Dear Robert,

Thank you for all your contributions on Scotland’s Constitutional History. I have learnt a lot from you and very much appreciate it.

I find your continued bullying of any person who holds genuine concerns about ‘the how’ we reach independence – deeply, deeply hurtful and upsetting. Bullying in my opinion.

Blind loyalty, can be incredibly stupid loyalty – one has only to look at the Labour Party to see how that works.

They say the price of democracy is eternal vigilance – that means holding our own parties to account as much as, or even more, than our opposition. If questions are not asked, if they are not transparent – then those who pull their punches under the guise of keeping their powder dry, will continue to do so for a very long time – and those who silence the questioners – will have assisted them greatly.

How dare you dictate the way, the method, the venue by which members of the public raise their concerns about their elected politicians. How Dare You. If this political blog site is the way or the place, they feel safest, or most comfortable to do so – then good for them.

It is appalling that you would try to brow beat them into your chosen method and your method only. Appalling, and deeply anti-democratic.

You must have an incredibly poor opinion of Nicola Sturgeon’s robustness, in the face of honest concerns. I do not – she is one talented, tough lady.

You needn’t bother replying to this. I won’t be contributing btl again.

@Al dossary having lived and worked on the IOM, I can vouch very much on it not being dreary in the winter months…That’s when the people of the island party without holiday makers getting in the way of their local pub. I loved it! Many happy memories of my time amongst the Manx I even brought back my very own little Manx baby!

@Daisy Walker 7.30.
Seconded. And in a much more coherent fashion than my earlier post.

I enjoy your contributions. Keep posting.

Al Dossary if you think the Isle of Man is bleak in Winter, you want to try Arran 🙂 i wont listen to the BBC radio or TV so listen to Manx Radio for several houes daily, the weather there is generally slightly better than Arran’s There might be a low unemployment rate but cuts arebiting, Gideon Osbourne screwed over the Manx with reform of a vat sharing agreement. Basically the long term future does not look good, Brexit could be the straw that breaks the camels back for the Crown Dependencies, maybe we should offer to make them part of the Scots Crown, I fancy a Scottish TT 🙂
link to archive.is

Regarding Robert Pefers, he is a true friend of the Scottish independence movement.
He has explained the act of union to me and I suspect many of the readers of this blog.
Any atempt to undermine him is surely the work of youn agents.

@Heart of Galloway
Personally I think the BBC is being used and abused.

How shocking! Sweet Dreams are indeed made of this.

@ScottieDog “His rantings are like a collage of daily mail headlines in Dahli form.”

Good aren’t they.

My posting was done to be a bit provocative I have to admit. It succeeded in trolling the trolls 🙂

Lol, Nick Eardley. Good to see that I am not the only one who sees what the wee fud is up to. Clearly his new found fame has gone to his head. Some of his tweets are desperate. This is a belter,

link to twitter.com

Burp, let’s keep the party fucking going Wings Over Dows!

Furra now, lorra good people.

Freedom imminent.

I along with many others believe the backpedalling on IndyRef2 in the 2017 council and general elections was a serious strategic error

———–

they back pedalled on the position they had in 2015 ge (49.5% of the vote) although indyref2 wasnt even on their manifesto ???

the position the snp have taken, imho, has been the correct one. that does not exclude them putting indy front and centre of the manifesto in the next election.

what dictates their position isnt bloggers, members or their own wishes….. it is the voters/public opinion

if support for indy is at 59% after a no deal brexit (as opinion polls indicate it will be) then i guarantee you independence will be the only thing on the snp manifesto in the coming ge.

the snp have nurtured their support (and support for indy) from a very small base to where it is today by doing exactly this sort of thing.

we are at 45/48% at the mo. not long now. the buffoons in wm are our trump card in this goat rodeo, it is they who will deliver the last few % we need really begin to walk the walk.

Fiat money is only a piece of paper with printing on it.

schrodingers cat@9.37

The EU ref in between the 2015 GE and the 2017 GE changed all. The former saw an awful lot of people who voted ‘no’ in IndyRef 1 vote SNP in 2015 because they regretted their decision the second they stepped out of the polling booth.

The FM’s announcement in June 2016, after every single one of Scotland’s local authority areas voted Remain, that a second IndyRef was ‘extremely likely’ was audacious but absolutely correct.

But after securing a mandate for IndyRef 2 69-59 in the Scottish Parliament, in response Theresa May called a snap GE. The message to activists fighting those elections was that they were “not about independence or about another referendum”.

But they were – because all the feckin’ Tories banged on about was “send a message to Nicola Sturgeon…” etc etc.

The upshot was that our support – and many who had come over to us – stayed away in droves.

But that is in the past. As I said, I think some hard lessons have been learned. Re opinion polls, I would be extremely wary of depending on them being a true reflection of Scottish public opinion right now, simply because their findings can be skewed depending on the questions asked and who commissioned them.

In any case, when WERE the last opinion polls?

I would not be so sure about a no-deal Brexit either – we should be prepared to fight and win under any scenario, with Scottish EU membership anchoring the campaign. That cannot wait for Theresa May to call a GE, which may never happen.

You are right about the ‘yes’ base being much higher than pre-2014 but opinion polls should not guide our actions. We have not yet begun to fight.

link to theguardian.com

The British Establishment & Government are expert at window dressing, presenting an image of respectability and propriety. But behind the scenes, out of public view, they show their true & evil colours. Empire through Colonialism lives on. The killing of troublesome individuals, either singly, in groups, or in tens of thousands, is standard for the British Empire, particularly in the Colonies, like India and Ireland.
Oh that Scotland would wake up to the truth about The Empire and about The Union.

Listen to the wind blow Ghillie…

We’re awe goin’:
link to youtube.com

Watch the iScottish sun rise.

Jomry. That was not a constructive comment.

Just mean spirited.

I just want Scottish independence.

I loathe the Cons.I despise Labs.I spit on Libs.

Err….that’s it really.

@Dorothy Devine –

You do know how to flatter a man!

Lovely seeing you, albeit too briefly.

😉

RP is a grumpy bastard but he is OUR love/hate grumpy bastard and I would rather have him write here than not…mostly.

He has made me do more research than I wished and I am the better for it. The grumpy b

Well Robert (P) you know what the opposition, any opposition for any cause great or small will always attempt to do, that is to attack their GREATEST enemy and try to undermine and discredit them (lawyers do it all the time) and by God you most certainly come into that category. I’ve learned more on here from YOU than any teacher that I’ve ever had throughout my lifetime plus any learning I’ve tried to do on my own and I THANK you most sincerely for that. I owe you. I’m also extremely aware of the fact that you are very elderly, sick and disabled. Well what can I say about that other than that I would REALLY love you to be young, fit and healthy. As it stands I’m totally gobsmacked and FULL of admiration that you can find the strength to go on. Carry on with your lifetime objective and put up with the flack that you encounter on here.

The online Wings site and Stu must be the greatest threat to the Westminster Establishment (other than the SNP) followed by people like Nana (sorry Nana) and yourself. No one on here will EVER attack Stu or Nana for all of the obvious reasons so you, and the SNP, are next in line Robert. The perfect targets. I can see it clearly as no doubt thousands of other people who visit this site can see it too. Can see exactly what’s going on here.

…………………….

@ Daisy Walker says at 7:30 pm …. ”Dear Robert …’How dare you dictate the way, the method, the venue by which members of the public raise their concerns about their elected politicians. How Dare You. If this political blog site is the way or the place, they feel safest, or most comfortable to do so – then good for them. It is appalling that you would try to brow beat them into your chosen method and your method only. Appalling, and deeply anti-democratic.

Dear Robert and then what Daisy? You go on to dictate to and browbeat him? ”Apalling” I would say. Can’t you see it? He has a right to say what he wants to on here just as you, with your constant SNP Baad messages, or anyone else does too. Most of us who visit Wings are extremely intelligent adults who are perfectly capable of separating the wheat from the chaff and by God there’s loads of chaff floating about on this site. My message to you now Daisy is, ”how dare YOU try to turn this into an anti-democratic site?”

There are appalling comments against the SNP/members by people who support Independence. They are cutting off their nose tospite their face and can’t even realise it,

The Greens car park tax. Giving the Tories the ammunnition to attack the SNP. Even giving May another opportunity to lie about Scotland in the Commons. Along with the other lies. The other useless unionists joining in as usual. How ignorant and arrogant are some people. Just giving the unionists ammunition they can use to ruin the economy. The Brexit/unionist shambles. The ignoramouses voting for them. Actualy voting to make themselves poorer.

There are now less people coming from the EU and more people coming from the rest of the world. The Tory/unionists are just unbelieveable. Every word they utter is a lie. Another shambles. What a mess.

The state Scotland would be in without the SNP in charge is unimaginable. Thank goodness for them standing up again the utter unionist shambles and mess. The SNP/members need all the help they can get. Scotland can do better without the Westminster shambles. A total disgrace. The time to have an Ibdependenc Ref is when it can be won. If it takes a little longer, so be it. Scotland is going its own way in any case.

Corbyn is useless but the anti-Semitic lies are orchestrated by the Israeli embassy and the Press. Being paid to do it. Another attack on democracy by a handful of people. Many Jewish people within the Labour Party etc and Israel do not support the Israeli apartheid Gov policies. How many more people will die because of it. There are many people in Israel who do not support it. The Israeli regime is supported recently by a Russian neo Nazi emigre rep. Netanyahu is facing charges of corruption. Supported by £Billions of US dollars bribing people. Videos are available showing the corruption. Spending the money on arms instead of feeding people. Leaving people starving and destitute.

Links

link to gov.scot

link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk

link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com

link to yesdayscotland.wordpress.com

link to medium.com

link to joansjigsaw.wordpress.com

link to farminguk.com

The Official British Policy? Mayhem
After nearly three agonizing years, the people are fed up. What’s next — recession, civil unrest or another referendum?
link to archive.is

The beneficiaries of Help-to-Buy have put their name around party members’ necks.
link to archive.is

Thousands face incorrect benefit cuts from automated fraud detector
link to archive.is

Defra has put out a detailed Brexit preparedness notice, explaining exactly how dead the UK fisheries industry will be in the case of no-deal. (TL/DR version: very very dead.) No access to EU waters or automatic right to land fish in EU ports.
link to twitter.com

link to politicshome.com

There are individuals on the web page who are getting a bit excitable.

Debate is healthy – excluding the offensive posters we have been subjected too all to often in recent times.

It would indicate the brexiters Tories and labour are worried as are thei mouthpieces such as the BBC.

No doubt there are 5th columnists on here just as there are in the SNP ,Greens, SSP encouraging dissent , divide and rule, undermining or just feeding back to London HQ.

Let’s remember our cause is great and noble.

Brexit has been a godsend.

link to independent.co.uk

This is an interesting read alright, though no access to ‘comments’. With 51% of schoolchildren nationalist & 37% Loyalist, Westminster can’t win democratically in NI, and with most of the border running through nationalist dominated areas, a hard border is not feasible without the presence of considerable numbers of the British Army. “Stupid stupid stupid English” That must be an Irish expression.

Cosy wee interview on shortbread between Douglas Fraser and Mr Gavin McCrone this morning.

Worth a listen and I might post a link later.

Not quite move along nothing to see here but it was all so tricky a problem at the time and still will be. 🙂

Gavin not impressed with the WM negotiators and outlines three possible ways for Scotland but it’s so tricky!

Oil fund is good opportunity missed.

“Has it made you reconsider you position on Scottish Independence”?

Well..erm..maybes aye Mabees..no! ACH it’s so tricky! 🙁

Nana says

link to thelondoneconomic.com

That is a MUST READ. In some ways it doesn’t surprise me about they type of EU laws which the UK opposed and were forced onto it.

“According to the commons library just 4,514 out of 34,105 laws have been influenced by the EU, of which just 72 of them were forced on us against our will.”

Things like …

Ban on livestock growth-boosters

Additives to mineral water must be safe

Posted workers must be given the same pay and conditions

… they should sound a big warning klaxon about the standards of safety and regulation we can expect once Brexit takes effect. As far as I can see the things they want to burn in a big bonfire of ‘EU red tape’ are things ordinary folks wouldn’t want removed!

If knowing some folk, having respect for some folk, and even liking some folk makes me part of a clique, gee whiz, I must be part of half a dozen cliques at least without even knowing it =)

No body on this web site gets shot down (unless the moderator decides their posts are unacceptable) but some folk do get called out for being OTT with the denigration or for being simply mean spirited.