How to speak Weasel
We’re sure our ever-alert readers don’t need telling, but it never hurts to put up a little refresher course for those who might have joined recently.
As it becomes clear to everyone in Scotland that the No camp’s promises of the UK being the guarantor of survival for the Govan shipyards was the cynical lie those of us on the Yes side always said it was, it’s been interesting to watch the panicked response from the Westminster government.
Let’s take a quick look at how it works.
Here, for example, is “an MoD spokesman” quoted by the BBC:
As viewers will recall, “no plans” is a classic political bodyswerve, a completely meaningless phrase even in the context of politicians’ normal loose relationship with the truth. It’s a way of evading the question and avoiding making even an empty commitment, without actually technically lying. When you go back on it later on, you can always say “Well, we DIDN’T have any plans, honest, but then we thought about it and had to change our minds.”
It’s what the Tories did when they said they had “absolutely no plans” to increase VAT in 2010, shortly before hiking it by a third, disproportionately damaging the poor, who pay a greater percentage of their income in VAT than the wealthy. It’s what Labour did when they said they had “no plans” to introduce tuition fees back in 1997, just before introducing them. It’s what the coalition did when they said they had “no plans” to abolish the Education Maintenance Allowance, immediately prior to abolishing the Education Maintenance Allowance (and just after trebling Labour’s tuition fees).
The spokesman continued:
Well, that’s not actually true. Rosyth will still be building the second Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier in 2015. But if we accept it to be true in the narrower context the spokesman was describing, the fact that it’ll be the only UK yard doesn’t actually mean it’ll get any contracts. You could be the only person in the UK specialising in putting diving helmets on barn owls, but that doesn’t mean anyone will hire you.
The spokesman having done his best to create a series of misleading impressions without saying anything that was strictly factually wrong, he tagged in the Secretary of State for Portsmouth.
Well, yes, it does and it has. But what of it? The reader is being told there what’s happened in the past, and what’s happening at the moment. It says nothing at all about what will be happening tomorrow. If the UK awarded the contract to a French shipyard on Friday, the statement would remain true in terms of the past and present.
The media, of course, dutifully reports the misleading implications as gospel, rather than analysing them. The Guardian’s Severin Carrell, for example, announces that:
“Michael Fallon overrules Royal Navy head over Scotland’s shipyards
But as we’ve just seen above, he did absolutely no such thing. It’s notable that in the wake of Admiral Zambellas’ comments, neither the MoD nor the UK government took the opportunity to quash all speculation instantly by saying simply and unambiguously that “The Type 26 contracts will be awarded to BAE in Govan”, which is what Scots were expressly and explicitly told before the referendum would definitely happen:
As ever, we invite readers to form their own conclusions as to why.
Albion, as perfidious as ever, “Weasels are weasily recognised”.
Isn’t it a winter weasel that gets hung around the necks of politicians when they arrive in the House of Lords so as to remind them of the way they should use words?
No mention of the 4 Fleet tankers building in Korea, although not effectively Warships they were ordered by UK MOD. So we already have the president. Only 1 shipyard saved in Scotland that was Fergusons by the SNP Government
Would that be like ‘horseshit’?
‘But if we accept it to be true in the narrower context the spokesman was describing, the fact that it’ll be the only UK yard doesn’t actually mean it’ll get any contracts.’
Quite so. This kind of deconstruction of politico-speak should be common practice among MSM outlets. Instead, this language is accepted unhesitatingly, uncritically and uniformly by people with the effrontery to call themselves ‘journalists’.
And we’re way through the looking glass here. This morning the most relentless propagandist of all, the BBC, ran a feature bemoaning the state of investigative journalism in the yookay. Riiight…
Caveat emptor, isn’t it?
We must remember that Tony Blair kept secret his plans to support fully the American invasion of Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein (regime change). It was never about WMD.
That’s a polecat, not a weasel. Geez, can’t trust anybody.
“That’s a polecat, not a weasel. Geez, can’t trust anybody.”
Are you stoatally sure about that? We need to ferret out the truth.
I don’t know how to speak weasel but I have smattering of ferret (see pic), some pidgin pigeon and I really must brush up on my, er, beaver.
This has all the attributes of a non story. What is certain is that in the event of a Yes vote, the ships would not have been built in Govan.
“What is certain is that in the event of a Yes vote, the ships would not have been built in Govan.”
No it isn’t. We’ve just found out that the UK government absolutely IS prepared to build them in a “foreign” country, which was the only argument against an independent Scotland getting the order. Can you not read or something?
There is always whataboutery going on in Westminster,it may come down to a reduction in price or something,(which will mean less jobs and lower wages,as usual)or they want to award it elsewhere to another ally for a consideration somewhere else.
Also,could simply be political spite,which Westminster does well,esp Tories (of all colours mind)and all those Sir Humphry types.
@handclapping
Stoats futrets are smaller and don’t turn white in winter.
Labour will bank on there being enough people out there who believe the pish they & the bbc tell them and they’ll go with that to the polls next May to save their arses. We on the other hand need to let as many no voters as possible ken exactly what they’re up to. And hopefully that will be up to their necks in shit.
I speak to no voters everyday and am always shocked at how they “think” that because they’re well educated, got a bit o cash in the bank and talking to a windee cleenir that they ken best and I’m the idiot for believing everything and anything said by that fat cunt Alecsammin. I laugh at their stupidity but also greet a wee bit because they’re the fuckin idiots for thinkin they had more in touch we the Tories than the person washin their windees. Because WE are all in this together. The fight goes on.
You’re being a bit harsh on weasels there aren’t you? 😉
There more honesty in a weasel than you’ll find in the big hoose.
It is a Polecat kitten not a weasel
@ handclapping Actually ermine fur is from the stoat. however that doesn’t in any way affect the words from these politicians which as ever are weasel.
I see the leaflet above has Ian Davidson’s name at the bottom of it..
Fighting to support Shipyard jobs – not threatening them.
Can’t find any reference to him having released any statements re the current hoo ha surrounding MOD Shipbuilding contracts. Keeping his head well below the parapet..
Think it might just reflect Drunken Haversacks* view anyway..
I.Davidson MP – ‘Well as much as i would have liked a No vote to have guaranteed the work on the Clyde (as it said on the propaganda leaflet), I do appreciate that our Tory brethren do have stamp out this evil of a highly skilled workforce working for a living..blah blah blah..’
If it turns out that the Ships aren’t built on the Clyde there will be hell to pay for..
(i’m just putting this out there – there are a high proportion of folk out there that are more interested/disgusted as to why lobotomy inducing Strictly will be on 10 minutes later than scheduled.. ARGH – god help us)
( * credit to Twety14 for the Drunken Haversack name – i do like that )
perhaps its just a mistype, surely they meant…
“And while this contract has not yet been awarded, we have also been clear that from 2015 the Clyde will be the only shipyard that builds UK’s complex warships”
Good grief, Campbell, give it up already – this scrabbling at semantics smacks of sheer desperation on your part. Maybe you should just accept that you jumped the gun with your knee-jerk pounce on this threadbare non-story, and move on. I’m sure us evil moustache-twirling capitalists will provide you with plenty more “aha! Gotcha!” moments for you to feel smug about in the future, you don’t need to try and scrape back this one.
Wind in yer Wallow
“The weasels, and the related ferrets and stoats, are all nasty little buggers, sneaking into Toad Hall to take it over while Toad is out. They’re eventually let go with a warning, as they promise to be good after being thrashed by Badger”.
Character – Played by
Toad – A.Carmichael
Badger – A.Salmond
Weasel – Slab
Ferrets – BBC Scotland
Stoats – LibDem
Supporting Cast
Beaver – J.Murphy
As Homer Simpson said “Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It’s what separates us from the animals – except weasels”
The design contract was awarded to BAE in 2010, can`t find a date when build contracts will be awarded and whether that is before or after the General Election.
As it stands, if it is before GE I can`t think this is anything other than sabre rattling, if navies have sabres, Con Dems wouldn`t be that stupid would they, unless they really wanted to punish Scots and Labour? If it is after then I would believe anything is possible.
Weasel words …….
As the late Jimmy Sanderson would have said,
” Are you accusing me of tergiversation ?”
Shit, that’s 3 years training to be a barn owl diving helmet fitter down the swanee.
@yerkitbreeks:
Yes, a stoat’s totally different.
I’ll get my coat.
Weasel, stoat, red Tory, blue tory – it makes no difference; their aim is always to end up in ermine.
“… specialising in putting diving helmets on barn owls.”
How would the barn owls read their depth and air gauges? The single, obvious flaw in that business plan.
@ Wee Jonny
Agree with your observation regarding No voters.
Those most vocal on t’internet and newspaper Comments sections are adamant that they are the ones with “common sense”, superior intellect and innate knowledge, nay genius, in economic matters. I work beside some (the silents) who also hold this attitude in varying degrees.
The hardcore truly believe that Yes voters are morons, whose demographic is exclusively the poor, who they regard as low-IQ sheep. In their minds they averted an apocalypse on the 18th Sept and would do so again.
For more info regarding today’s Shipyards topic I strayed onto the Telegraph’s site (I know I shouldn’t as I just end up seething), where this kind of attitude is still prevalent. In the run-up to the indyRef, some of these smug twits were suggesting that anyone with a modicum of intelligence would flee Scotland in the event of a Yes. They really don’t understand that the Yes campaign was truly grass roots with support from all levels of society.
Will it take another crash or some Unknown which to materially affect everyone and make them suffer before they finally get it? Or are they a lost cause?
Who is RJF ?
Schools are off today it being an in service day. RJF must be a schoolboy.
@yerkitbreaks,
Sorry breaksie, I don’t question your definition but, I’d prefer to go along with Handclappin’s version. ?.
pretty sure thats a lovely wee polecat in the pic rev,same family.
Are you stoatally sure about that? We need to ferret out the truth.
If this is what happens when you listen to the people … carry on, Jim Murphy.
[…] How to speak Weasel […]
@RJF’
‘Us capitalists’. I’m assuming you’re referring to the UK?
I’m struggling to see how a state underwritten Ponzi scheme can be regarded as capitalist.
As evidenced by recent remarks from the Ministry of Defence, the UK Gov considers that future contracts to build its warships can be awarded both within the UK and overseas, thereby it makes no difference in this matter whether Scotland is an independent country or not.
Sorry to go O/T but I triedthis earlier it didna work
Haggis Hunter says:
12 November, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Hey hey Wee Jonny,
hows life?
Did ye hae a gid necht after we left you in Glasgow during the bus sesh… erm trip!
Oy Oy H.H.
Yes I had a great night thanks. It was great putting faces to names. I had a bra laugh on the way through, met a few Wingers in the boozer, got a spesh’ edition Wings badge from Kendo’ (thanks Kendo) had a wee chat with Paul (Wee Ginger Dug) Had another bra laugh with Mr &Mrs John King and I won nearly all the raffle prizes. The only thing that coulda topped that is if the Rev himself turned up. Although I probably woulda got in the same state as I did in ’82 when I asked Tosh McKinlay for his autograph (I could hardly talk and near pished misel we excitement) when he played for Dundee. I went on to meet my wife who was in Glesgay for a works night oot. So all in all an ace night. Will hay ti day it again soon H.H.
The real “weasel word” is “complex”.
My understanding of this as regards to a warship is the weapon systems, electronics/command and control systems, radar and sonar systems etc.
The question really to be asked is how much of this complexity is really British or else imported. The Trident missile is the ultimate non-British Complexity in the RN.
Again the spokespeople assume we are of low intelligence and gullible.
Getting really sick of this.
An honourable mention for Torcuil Crichton as well.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
I thought there were lots of shipyards on the Clyde? The statement makes it seem like there’s only one.
Excellent anatomy of Westminste NewSpeak, You are, however, mistaken to agree that the statement made during the Referendum to the effect that the UK has always built its warships in the UK and would not contract such work to a ‘foreign’ power – something it was implied an independent Scotland would become. The BBC, along with the rest of the national media, published this line without question. Yet that had all reported two years earlier – in 2012 – that the MOD had awarded a £452 million contract to South Korea – I’ll say that again, SOUTH KOREA – to build four fuel tankers for the Royal Navy. In a democratic press with a genuine brief of enquiry, this should have torn apart the lie given out to the Scottish electorate that an independent Scotland would have no chance of tendering for rUK MOD work because it would be a ‘foreign power’. What, like South Korea? But of course, the BBC and national mainstream media across the UK were on board Project Fear for the duration of the Referendum. So this latest ‘revelation’ about MOD tendering is nothing new.
Here’s a link to the BBC coverage of the £452 Royal Navy contract to South Korea from 2012:
link to bbc.co.uk
Remember fluent speakers of Weasel often use translation services then blame the interpreters when things are not parlayed as accurately as they might be.
For example, the unambiguous assertion that “Govan and Scotstoun will get the order for 13 type-26 frigates” is actually printed in a leaflet published by the Labour Party, and specifically its parsel-tongued tribune Ian Davidson. The monkey, in other words, not the organ grinder as Labour are not in power and therefore in no position to guarantee the contract.
Honest mistakes should not be held against anyone so next May remember to vote for the monkey wearing the red rosette.
(If in doubt, ask the monkey to sing ‘Yes, We Have No Bananas’ to the tune of ‘The Red Flag’.)
I said back then, and many times since, we simply cannot trust ANYTHING coming from Westminster and their proxies “Labour, Condems, Tories,BBC, MSM, main UK press, etc etc.
They LIVE for the power of Westminster, the SNP break the mould and for that they will have to bear the weight of the deceit we suffered in defeat of Indy. With little of real consequence expected by the Smith Commission, things will get very much worse, making it harder to govern Scotland due to lack of funding.
We really have to galvanise our Indy intentions and start berating every lie they told us. We need to destroy Slab, for like all of Labour, with few exceptions, they are rotten to the core. Lets start there and wipe them out at the polls.
That would make first step taken, towards another referendum.
You’re all wrong, its a stoat
what they should have done was to drop the whole shipbuilding and associated construction issue negativity and conceded that these activities would continue and in fact be even stronger in indyscot.
instead they continue to score spectacular own goals.
@Robert Kerr says:
“The real “weasel word” is “complex”.”
That’s a good point. They could build 95% of it abroad, and only fit out the radar dome and super secret software in the UK.
I still don’t believe they would be so foolish to actually go ahead and do this, purely for the political repercussions.
Probably just price negotiating tactics, along with some kind of stunt for the general election, where they save the day at the last minute.
But just making the threat has already eroded trust, even if they backtrack later.
Crikey Stu. Looks like your filters are malfunctioning.
Or have you touched a nerve?
Such devoted loyalty to our Tory masters from the left wing commentator, Severin Carrell. Whatever it takes to keep the truth from the people of Scotland.
All he cares about is ensuring that we continue to send Labour MPs to Westminster. Can’t let the truth get in the way of this.
@ Orlando Quarmby
When questioned about that at the time the response was that these were tankers, not warships.
There was also some history about warships being built outwith the UK during war time, so the ‘peacetime’ rider was incorporated into the memorandum as well.
They never actually made clear what was so darned special about warships, compared to say fighter jets or nuclear missiles that meant they wouldn’t just go ahead and have them built elsewhere if it was better value.
I like weasels, they are cute, and you’re a big meanie comparing lying politicials to them!
Have just seen Jackie Baillie’s performance at FMQs.
Words…words…?…there are none…
(In making general statements, as I do below, the decent people of this world are often included unfairly among the law breakers. Not every politician is a self-serving careerist on the make and not every business man or woman is crooked. But in politics and business, at Westminster and in the City of London in particular, that appears to be the case.)
Telling the difference between a stoat, a weasel and a ferret has always been a problem for most people. Unless one happens to keep these animals. Or indeed unless one happens to be of that type.
One thing for sure is that the majority of the voting population have a major problem in telling the difference between a criminal and a law-abiding citizen.
For most voters, anyone who is dressed well, groomed well and who speaks reasonably well is considered a law-abiding citizen. However, as Wings readers in particular know, the majority are deceived.
Today’s criminal classes are usually well off, well educated and well connected. At the forefront of this group are the not so usual, usual suspects, businessmen and politicians, at all levels.
The politicians privatise; the business people capitalize, and they then divide the spoils.
It is always business people who take their money offshore to safe havens and benign tax regimes. It is big business and the seriously wealthy who are most guilty of tax avoidance and evasion.
Politicians are up to their necks in generous salary and pension
increases, expenses fraud, bribes and backhanders, lecture fees, brown envelopes, free this that and the next thing – and that’s before they start lying.
When the elections come round, the voters are faced with a corrupt, criminal media specialising in phone tapping, computer hacking and bribery, and the air is thick with lies, half-truths, deception, cover ups, you name it.
The good news is that with the grassroots independence movement we now have a huge volume of people who are interested in politics and the economy, but NOT motivated by money. It is here that we find hope for the future and for a reversal in our society of the poison of neo-Liberalism among the corrupt business and political establishment.
A Weasel is a weasel but a Stoat is stoatally different
All Westminster has to do is buy the FREMM frigate from France (£550m each) then base them in Portsmouth where they will be maintained. There is no absolute ruling that shipyards have to be kept open in Scotland nor ships built in the UK, much of the UK’s industry has disappeared since 1980 simply because it was cheaper to have other countries do the work. Be well to remember that at the height of the Cold War our coal mines were closed down in favour of importing cheaper stuff from Poland, supposedly one of our Soviet -bloc enemies at the time.
The Tories have nothing to lose in Scotland but Labour has. What cost to the Tories is a couple of thousand Scottish shipyard workers who don’t vote for them anyway? The contraction of industry in the UK has seen concentrations of various industrial output centred in the south of England with massive growth to places like Reading, Croydon, Slough and Brighton. Sure they don’t build complex warships in England anymore but they don’t have to. The Scottish shipyards could close with a minimum of fuss, the next generation of frigates bought off the shelf, all maintenance work carried out in Portsmouth with the option of reactivating that yard in the future (as they have done before).
Oil and energy is the only solid industry that Westminster takes notice of in Scotland and is the only reason the Tory part of Better Together wanted Scotland to remain in the UK. Shipyards are now largely redundant in the UK as far as Westminster sees it because ship building is not important anymore to the economy. Thatcher’s tactic was not to have government responsible for employment but fell back on the principle that oil money would pay for the pain of unemployment. Cameron & Co. have followed that up with not having responsibilities of welfare either and will extinguish benefits and pensions altogether in a few short years.
Within the UK, Scotland is increasingly seen as a faraway backwater (whisky, golf, rain, subsidy junkies, not much else). Westminster and the civil service are quite happily attracting international corporations and billionaires to the UK where the country is represented as anywhere as long as it is near London.
So when shipyards close, industry melts away, poverty is rampant, dogma politics and a compliant media, then who cares it’s only the whinging Jocks. One thing is for sure, even if the Type 26 is built on the Clyde, they will be the last.
@Orlando Quarmby
This is exactly Rev Stu`s point about reading and understanding the exact words the Government uses when it issues a statement. In this case ”The UK has never outside of the two world wars built complex warships outside the UK.”
the Korean ships according to their phraseology are not `complex warships`they are RN tankers.
This statement only says what has happened not what in the present or future could happen when procuring `complex warships`.
The next Wee Blue Book should be the Weasel Book. A collection of soundbites to be advertised or replayed repeatedly before the GE to counter the BBC propaganda and remind residents of Scotland what a vote for Labour means.
What are the top 50 things said by Labour MPs that would cause people to vote with their feet?
In reverse order:
No.50 ‘Scots are not genetically programmed for politics.’ Lamont
A shipyard comment has to be near the top.
Harrys mate asked “Do my family seem Weasely?”
“They do Ron, Ron,they do Ron Ron!,replied a drunk Harry.
What about martens?
Stone martens?
OT: That wonderful comedian, Steve Bell, means to continue with Nicola where he left off with Alex. What a wacky funster he is!
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/11/12/1415812427407/Steve-Bells-If—13.11.20-005.jpg
link to archive.today
Same dead horse, different race…
@ Dcanmore.
I think Scotland needs to protect its assets as I agree oil and energy are what Westminster are interested in. Feel free to sign this petition…needs some publicity…
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
The Tories and the MOD can threaten to renege on this promise knowing full well that any anger will be directed at SLab, damaging them even more ahead of the 2015 GE.
The joys of being the front for the Tory funded NO campaign and all the promises made, now being ditched one by one.
@ Auld A
We only have pine martens here (though I’ve never managed to see one). Where I live there are weasels, stoats (ermine in winter), badgers and otters, though I usually only come across the latter two after they’ve been run over. I’ve had an escaped ferret in my garden, and once saw a dead polecat nailed to a telegraph pole in Wales (pour encourager les autres, presumably!) 🙂
The version of the pun that I grew up with is:
Q: How do you tell the difference between a stoat and a weasel?
A: You can weasily tell ‘cos they’re stoatally different.
Fed up o these erseholes
@Balaaargh
British nationalists are obsessed with the Nazis. SNP=Nazis to them, you can see it by the language Darling used in the referendum as well. Other Labour politicians have routinely make references to fascism in regards to the SNP.
One might equally point out that it was asserted that ships would continue to be built on the Clyde post-independence, which was also patently something which couldn’t be promised.
“The Royal Navy will continue to order ships from Scottish yards, based on that these are the best places to produce these vessels” – Alex Salmond
Reality is they were lied to by everybody.
That smiley face was meant to refer to my cheeky quotation of Voltaire, not an indication that I approve of trapping polecats and displaying their bodies in this gruesome manner. Now that I see it posted, I think I should have omitted it.
I see some people are still trying to promote those dirty ("Tractor" - Ed)s, 38 Degrees.
I find it hard to believe any true Yesser would want to support such a dodgy company after the way it allowed Crash Gordon to hijack a petition with over 120,000 signatures on it.
Author_Al, quite a lot, if not most of us closed our accounts with 38 Degrees after they did the dirty on us.
Maybe you were unaware of this!
How does Norway, Sweden and Denmark manage to cope without the UK ordering warships from them? Or Belgium or the Netherlands or Iceland? Some of them don’t even have oil. Poor souls.
Maybe an update of the top 10 Unionist myths is in order though I do think it has still great relevance and is worth revisiting.
link to youtube.com
Switzerland, of course, has no coastline. But they do manage to defend themselves pretty well. Small, progressive countries outwith the UK are remarkably resilient.
Ian Brotherhood
the score is 10-1.
10 caretakers to 1 FM.
not strong on maths is jackie, it’s yes lost by 200000+ not 400000 votes!
as for ruthie, @ least she was able to laugh @ herself.
Ian Brotherhood
the score is 10-1.
10 caretakers to 1 FM.
not strong on maths is jackie, it’s yes lost by 200000+ not 400000 votes!
as for ruthie, @ least she was able to laugh @ herself.
Totally we need a ‘Wee Red Book’ – with all lies laid out as in Vote No to save …..whatever plus evidence of the opposite happening.
Oil is running out…..
Currency – you wont be able to use the £…..
And so on, get these through the doors before the GE.
When I was recently at my first local SNP meeting, the guy chairing said we technically had enough members to leaflet the whole of East Ren in one day.
He also mentioned the WBB and how useful it had been because folk were asking about the quality of some of the materials for Yes.
And I also still worry about the die hard Labour supporters, spoke to a couple of them recently we need GBroon as FM etc etc
@ Wee Jonny
I asked Tosh McKinlay for his autograph (I could hardly talk and near pished misel we excitement) when he played for Dundee
Tosh McKinlay??? I thought you were an Arab?
Look … they have been squirrelling away the truth ….
Insults from under the bridge at 1.44pm
Definitely another Will; you get rid of one little pest, and another pops up to take its place.
Just remember, everyone; there were four reasons for voting no: fear, ignorance, selfishness and bigotry. I suspect all four apply here; that is, if it even lives in Scotland.
You know, the silence from Ian Davidson is deafening. You would expect, wouldn’t you, that he might have made some phone calls, and that having received an affirmative answer, he would be trumpeting it, and claiming the credit. So his silence really says it all. Constituents ought to be holding his feet to the fire though.
The report mentioned in the leaflet is still online.
link to publications.parliament.uk
There is a whole section “Why the UK builds its own warships” :
6. The UK never willingly builds warships outside the UK. Peter Luff MP, the then Minister responsible for procurement in the Ministry of Defence, told us that the UK had not built a warship outside the UK for 200 years except in times of crisis:
We built warships during the Second World War outside these shores. They were not complex warships but simple things like the so-called Landing Ship, Tanks, which were the brainchild of Winston Churchill—a thousand of them were built in the United States of America to enable amphibious attacks on the D-Day beaches, for example—and we built some 200 or 300 wooden minesweepers around the world during the Second World War in bizarre places like Tel Aviv, Bombay, Cochin, Singapore, Burma and Canada; so we have built ships […] but as to complex warships, I honestly think the answer is not for a couple of hundred years.[10]
7. This was reiterated by Philip Dunne MP, the new Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, who said “Other than during the world wars, we have never placed an order for a warship outside the United Kingdom.”[11]
8. The principle reason the UK builds warships at home is that it wants to be able to maintain the ability to do so without having to rely on any other nation. Ian Godden, Chairman of Farnborough International, told us that building a complex warship is comparable to hi-tech construction projects “like the Olympic Village or a new railway line or airport.”[12] so maintaining the capability to build these warships means retaining the particular skills. This was recognised in the 2005 Defence Industrial Strategy:
The build of warships extends beyond the simplistic view of steelwork and its assembly, incorporating an amalgamation of skills, facilities, technologies and knowledge. In particular, it is the high complexity, value added aspects of ship build and platform integration that must be maintained under UK sovereignty.[13]
[…] This was necessary to enable the UK to mount military operations from the UK base, and it is not effective to develop advanced, high-value skills needed for specialist hull construction or complex assembly tasks each time.[14]
9. Scotland has these skills. Importantly, complex warships, such as the Type 45 destroyers or the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers, are built in the UK because some of the technology involved is militarily sensitive. The Ministry of Defence is, understandably, careful as to who has access to, and knowledge of, the weapons systems on its warships, and keeping such information secret enables the UK to retain military effectiveness. Furthermore, building such warships in the UK contributes to the economy and the wider supply chain and the Treasury benefits from the tax revenue.[15]
We knew the entire BT campaign was lies. I’m pretty pissed off at BAE for not flagging up that there was no guarantee of getting those orders though. And don’t forget that the SNP plan was to build a Scottish Navy at these yards. Relying on rUK orders should never have been the strategy. The reality was that only a YES vote could protect the Clyde yards because only a Yes vote would have seen a whole new navy (albeit a smallish one) built and maintained in Scotland.
Och well. At least next time there’ll be one less stick for them to try and beat us with and a whole lot more angry ex-Labour voters to recruit to our side. It’s pretty bleak as silver linings go, but you’ve got to take what you can get, eh?
The Labour party have discovered by now, why no one, repeat no one, gets into bed with the Tories. It’s too much of a health risk. Sleep with the Tories and you will be infected by something really nasty. It’s highly infective, absolutely incurable and leads to insanity and a slow, painful death. To be avoided at all costs.
It’s actually worth having a read through the full report. No weasel words here:
Legal implications, contracts and options
31. ….. As we explained earlier, the UK does not build its warships outside the UK and we have been told that it would use Article 346 to exempt the Type 26 build from open competition.
@Stoker…
Ok mate – don’t sign the petition, set one up yourself. 38 degrees acted ignorantly over the Gordon Brown debacle. Dirty ("Tractor" - Ed)s? Do we really need WOS to be a place of such extreme language? It’ll drive off the very people who you want to keep onside. We complain about hyperbole and exaggerated language by SLAB, Tories etc but do the same here. I was trying to do a good thing – promote a sovereign wealth fund for Scotland. Got it wrong.
‘Weasels ripped my flesh’ …(copyright Frank Zappa and the Mothers).
And the very last paragraph:
40. We are convinced that the MoD will not award the Type 26 contract until after the outcome of the referendum is known. If the result is a ‘No’ vote, we believe that the work will be carried out on the Clyde, whereas a ‘Yes’ vote will result in the work being carried out in Portsmouth. The sooner the referendum takes place, the sooner the decision will be made and the sooner there will be an end to the uncertainty.
On a no vote there is a belief work will be on the Clyde, however, a Yes vote “will result in the work being carried out in Portsmouth.”
Thinking about it, I was going to use Change.org until I read this
“I have huge problems with Change.org because they are a lead-generation business disguised as a social-change organization for whoever is willing to pay them for the email addresses,” says Clay Johnson, author of “The Information Diet” and a veteran of fund raising through social media. “It’s dangerous to monetize ‘change’ because there’s an economic incentive to sensationalize.”
On a serious note, does anyone know of petition sites that have a good rep, are non-profit and can reach a wide strata of people? Sorry if this is O/T
Actually, it isn’t. Weasel words abound in the world of e-petitions. Having a bad day, excuse my grumpiness.
@ Author_Al Try Change.org for your petition, as has been said by others we have closed our accounts with 38% degree’s re garding the hi-jacking of a petition by Gordon Brown.
@JPFife 4:57
There are still weasel words in there. If it was to be watertight the word “would” would have been replaced with “shall”.
“Would” simply states an intention and not a guarantee.
Similarly, the word “will” is another statement of intent, not a guarantee.
@ Author_Al
Choosing a petition site is a real problem. I don’t like change.org for the reasons you state; until recently 38 degrees did seem to fit your criteria.
Unfortunately, the problem with them now is one of trust. I had been signing their petitions, on a variety of topics, for several years. I trusted them not to alter the petition after I had signed it, something which I think is absolutely critical.
By “altering”, I don’t mean changing the wording; that ought to be illegal if it isn’t already. What they did was alter the purpose, from holding the government to account to saving face for Gordon Brown and the Daily Record. Worse, they don’t seem to understand that this is what they did; their very belated response to my complaint blithely stated that Gordon would not be handing the petition in, they would be.
The only alternative I can think of, for petitions aimed at the Government but no others, is to use the e-petition site, which guarantees a discussion in the Commons for any petition attracting 100,000 signatures.
Not only is this rather limited, it is up to the petitioner to disseminate it; there is no ready-made mailing list such as that constructed by 38 degrees. So it isn’t that useful a solution.
@Crazycat (o/t):
It’s nice to have such a variety of animals at home’s threshold. I wish I could say the same, but in big cities, except for rats or cockroaches…
Polecats? You mean skunks?
So. I didn’t catch the French quote was from Voltaire. A bit short maybe.
We have a similar pun sentence in French, but it’s about alligators: Quelle différence y a-t-il entre un alligator et un crocodile ? Aucune, c’est caïman la même chose
“What’s the difference between a crocodile and an alligator? None, it’s caiman the same” where ‘caiman’ in French sounds like quasiment meaning ‘almost’.
Rocking horse shit is more common than the truth when it comes to this lot.
For me, the worst thing is Glasgow voted YES. Rosyth can get tae France as far as Scotland goes.
Maybe The first sea lord sir George Zambellas has been contacted or been in contact with the French/Italian shipyard owners of the FREMM multipurpose frigate just to hoist the flag of non UK built `complex warships`and see the reaction from MOD .
The makers of the FREMM multipurpose frigate look like they could use a big order after France cutting their numbers down and a Greek order being blocked by the Germans.
George will need a job after being` Ruler of the Queen’s Navy` and a directorship in one of the French/Italian shipyards (which the Italian one is the fourth biggest shipbuilder in the world)would be a nice pension.
Brotyboy says
Tosh McKinlay??? I thought you were an Arab?
Ha. No I supported Dundee until I was 12. They were pish so I gave up on futba a thegither.
For petitions to be considered for debate in the HoC, the official one has to be used, link to epetitions.direct.gov.uk – you need 100,000 sigs.
Otherwise they will be filed in the bin, so I think 38degrees etc are a waste of time.
I’ve put my pedantic hat on and wish to point out that your ‘weasel’ post is accompanied with a photograph of a ferret.
I’m just worried you use up all your ferret images too soon and have none left to accompany future articles about Jim Murphy.
What RJF (Reality Jooking Fucker) doesn’t understand is that it doesn’t matter now if the ships are built in Govan or not, the cat is oot the bag they lied. They used the shipyards as a pawn in their game of let’s scare the shit out the Scots. Personally I couldn’t give a toss if Govan shuts and the shipyard workers try and sign on the dole will be treated like benefits scrounging scum by their ever loving Westminster leaders.
Brotyboy says
I thought you were an Arab
Ha, no I gave up on Dundee FC when I was 12. They were pish so I gave up on futba a thegither.
@Author_Al
Try Care petitions.
The Dundee courier has a poll on whether Alex has been a good FM.
Bloody robbing tories are attacking his pensions and expenses.
If I remember correctly we used 38º at NNS many, many, moons ago and raised an unprecedented number of signature sign ups. But unfortunately, when push came to shove, they couldn’t get past the M25.
If you could do with a full-on belly laugh, nip over to the Wings Twitter feed and check out the photo of Ed Miliband. I don’t know if it’s a mock-up or not, but it’s a total corker – he looks as if he’s just licked the window and is about to start scratching the door.
That pic of Edon the rev’s twitter is right enough, just been on stv
“I laugh at their stupidity but also greet a wee bit because they’re the fuckin idiots for thinkin they had more in touch we the Tories than the person washin their windees. Because WE are all in this together. The fight goes on.”
I feel your pain Wee Jonny.
RJF is obvipusly amongst those who would behave like sheep and accept being herded by their betters.
They lied to us? Oh well, guess they know best.
Zombie nation.
@ Auld A
This didn’t post the first time, so I shall try again and doubtless get it twice.
Polecats are wild ferrets – or ferrets are domesticated polecats, if you prefer.
link to en.wikipedia.org
The full quotation from Candide is “Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres”, supposedly “inspired” by the execution of Admiral John Byng after the loss of Minorca/Menorca during the Seven Years’ War.
The outcome of this change of governance was mayonnaise, allegedly.
Scotspine
yes rjf spectacularly misses the point and gets bogged down and/or wants to bog others down in technical detail.
Rev – any pics of a tergiversate?
Oh well if it’s in a Westminster leaflet then it must be true, I mean it’s not as if Westminster has come out with anything else, either in or out of a leaflet that later proved to be untrue………..is it?
@ Paula Rose Should that no be tergiversater’s, there’s plenty of them.
Just watched Alex’s last FMQ’s superb to the last, I will miss him every week but my oh my JaBa was truly awful there is no way that Dugtail will do any better they really are shite.
With news like this, the people of Scotland will be demanding a snap indy ref No. 2, hmm.. infact maybe SCOTLAND should HOLD ANOTHER ONE ANYWAY.. call their bluff, it didn’t seem to do the people of Catalonia 80+ any harm. An independent independence referendum for Scotland, a private matter for us. Would you like to see that 45+, become 80+ or even 90+!
What is true, is that people now turn out in their masses to vote for YES for independence ~ Yes is en vogue, Yes is cool.
Scotlands next independence referendum will draw an even greater percentage of the voting electorate, especially in my ayeGlasgow! 🙂
We are left to assume union leaders and shop stewards are no different from Glasgow politicians – they’d rather see Scotland screwed and ruled by a Tory government in London than jobs protected for their shipyard workers.
Nice people.
But lethal when it comes to exercising power.
( Ronnie doll – do they look like alligators or crocodiles or caimans, perhaps AuldA can elucidate)
Paula Rose says:
Rev – any pics of a tergiversate?
Easy Paula Rose; witness one of the world’s worst…
link to tinyurl.com
Author_Al says:
13 November, 2014 at 4:59 pm
@Stoker…
Ok mate – don’t sign the petition, set one up yourself. 38 degrees acted ignorantly over the Gordon Brown debacle. Dirty ("Tractor" - Ed)s? Do we really need WOS to be a place of such extreme language? It’ll drive off the very people who you want to keep onside. We complain about hyperbole and exaggerated language by SLAB, Tories etc but do the same here. I was trying to do a good thing – promote a sovereign wealth fund for Scotland. Got it wrong.
_________________
Al,
First of all and most importantly i was only letting you know what the score was regarding 38 Degrees, Ok mate.
Secondly, the fact you were “trying to do a good thing” is not in any doubt.
Thirdly, when i put my name to something SPECIFIC i don’t expect that company to change the game-plan and allow some piece of filth to hijack it and use my name to further his own agenda.
If i want to refer to this sort of untrustworthy scum as dirty ("Tractor" - Ed)s, that’s exactly what i’ll do. I don’t need any lectures on how to address scum who break the trust i place in them.
“It’ll drive off the very people you want to keep onside.”
WHIT!
This is WOS, 99.9% of its inhabitants are Yessers.
We get the odd bridge dweller on here but Natasha soon takes care of it – problem solved.
No, when anyone allows a Unionist ("Tractor" - Ed) to use my name to further their own cause, a cause which goes completely against all that i stand for, then you better believe i’m going to get a little bit miffed about it and i’m not about to tell them what naughty boys they’ve been, Ok mate.
You move in your circles, I’ll move in mine.
😉
@Author_Al
Have a look at this website:
link to 38degreesdebunked.blogspot.co.uk
It’s a Tory site. Nevertheless it does a good job of pointing out that 38 degrees is a Labour front. It is very unlikely that 38 degrees were caught unawares by Gordon Brown hijacking their petition. They have not responded to my complaint about it other than saying they’ll look into it. Maybe they are still looking into it.
Live Indy Scot Weekly interview with Deborah Waters of Labour for Indy JUST STARTED NOW link to tinyurl.com
Live Indy is on now
@ Paula Rose is this wan link to scottish.parliament.uk
Weasel, stoat, ferret, mink, rat, RJF, skunk, you can pick these up and give them a stroke but don’t be surprised when they sink their teeth right down to the bone on you.
No matter how friendly they look or sound, they just can’t be trusted.
you can pick these up and give them a stroke
Don’t get Paula Rose started on stroking 😀
While on the subject of defence and the armed forces did anybody see the livestream coverage of the troughers’ gala dinner in Glasgow? They interviewed a soldier who voted Yes. Intelligent guy he was – but he did speak about the old regiments and a sense of shared identity they fostered. Just a thought but under SNP policy would it be a good idea to reform these regiments? It might also take the sting out of the tail of the whole Britnat remembrance day and glorification of war -and these old/new regiments would engender a shared sense of history along with a future purpose of defence and not Britnat warmongering – “There was a soldier…”
First minister I salute you a leader to be proud of and one to follow the end.Nicola will do us proud but we will never see his likes again.
Alex Salmond Plots His Next Moves Against the British State – Newsweek article link to tinyurl.com
When can we expect the fraud squad to enter RBS HQ in Edinburgh and London in brutal force to seize computers, arrest executives, and install selected temporary staff?
You know, in the same way police burst into somebody’s home in the very early morning when it is thought they are hiding drugs, or benefit fraudsters?
Why do we have a layer of society above the law?
Why do we have banks that are so clearly corrupt and venal?
@Paula Rose:
you’re right. A tergiversator is kind of crocodile found mainly in the river Thames, especially around a small place called Londinium. He has very long teeth, as this dialog between one female tergiversator and her young vindicates:
“Mummy, do I have long teeth?”
“No, my son, but raise your head, you’re scratching the floor.”
However, some scientists say that this species has moved up to Scotland, being named ‘swithering nyaff’ by the natives.
Stuart
Is fitting to open a topic on Salmond so that we can add our thanks and memories … before he decides to drive his independence tank and T-bone Westminster.
Could it not just be a straw man threat for the brave new leader of Scottish labour to vanquish?
duncan’s right he thinks we have selfish reasons and we’re only using the snp, ssp and scotgreens et al, to gain social justice, indyscot and freedom.
which is the way it needs to be, politics serving the people, not the people serving politics.
career politics sucks.
do we work to live or live to work?
that we will only support parties that will give us what we need, and once we’ve gained what we need, we won’t need them anymore.
and your point is duncan?
@Stoker
We get the odd bridge dweller on here but Natasha soon takes care of it – problem solved.
Wow! I hope I can live up to that. My husband has been known to refer to me as his little Rottweiler . . .
Alex’s last FMQ’s….
link to scottishparliament.tv
I hope I live to see the day that we pull down Dewar’s statue from Buchanan Street and replace it with a true Scottish political hero.. Alex Salmond
Looks like a squirrel to me, but then everything looks like a squirrel to me nowadays,
Even the cat doesn’t appear all she seems especially since switching to ALDI morsels. Not sure the GM loaf is doing me much good either.
As for the shipyards, beats me as to why these were/are not put to better use in the oil industry. But then that would have meant progress and jobs, we certainly don’t want that in Scotland now do we?
Someone mentioned managed decline (Jim Sillars maybe) – that was before the ref, now it’s just decline and to hell with managing it.
@ Paula Rose
The Discovery of a New Element
OT but did any see this today in the telegraph seems cbi and the trade union unite are against scotland again, no change there then.
Businesses and trade unions unite to oppose corporation tax devolution.
link to tinyurl.com
Capella
Never seen that link before.
I’ll be surprised if you get a response, but at least you tried.
IF they were genuinely deceived by Broon, which they weren’t –
they were in on it with him, then why haven’t they apologised
to all of us who were deceived?
They deliberately got all our signatures under false pretences
and i’m sure they broke the law in doing so. Someone on
here a few weeks ago listed the 2 or 3 points where they may
have broken the law – deception being one of them i think.
They haven’t even attempted to apologise to one single person
that i know of, but hey ho, once bitten etc, their loss.
Had they stated from the outset that Broon would be claiming
ownership of that petition or putting his name to it then i
doubt very much they would have achieved a fraction of the
signatures they collected.
Their plan has backfired on them big style and hopefully will hit their business quite hard.
Natasha says:
13 November, 2014 at 8:46 pm
@Stoker
We get the odd bridge dweller on here but Natasha soon takes care of it – problem solved.
Wow! I hope I can live up to that. My husband has been known to refer to me as his little Rottweiler . . .
__________
Oh, i’m sure you WiLL…
HAHAHAHA
😉
@John O. I was thinking about the Smith Commission and its declaration that all submissions would be made public. Then read that individual submissions would be read and themes pulled out. Now that requires objectivity and skill and time. Why aren’t the 10000 odd submissions all posted up in full with names blanked out if needs be? I want mine to be there in public. Theming smacks of a convenient watering down of views and allows for certain themes to be ignored. Powerful interests do push their own agendas…
Having conducted extensive research on the issue (a brief look at Wikipedia) I believe it would be correct to say that all stoats and polecats are weasels, but not all weasels are stoats or polecats. 🙂
@Author_Al at 9.11pm
Powerful interests do push their own agendas . . .
Especially when that powerful interest is the chairman of SSE.
Quote: Grouse Beater 13 November, 2014 at 8:26 pm
Why do we have a layer of society above the law?
Why do we have banks that are so clearly corrupt and venal?
Because a majority of the UK population continue to vote for mainstream Westminister parties.
link to scottishparliament.tv
Alex has to be the greatest politician in Britain or Ireland since Daniel O’Connell
His intelligences are of so many different kinds
Its a genuine pleasure to hear him speak on any subject
I hope we will see him back as the first President of the Republic of Scotland before too long, with Nichola Sturgeon leading a ‘rainbow coalition’ government to form a first administration – maybe 2016????
re the Type 26 orders.
The Blue Tories can shaft the Scottish Branch Office of the Red Tories in the 2015 Westmonster election by a diet of press releases favouring the order going abroad. A great way of reducing the number of numpties sent South.
Sounds like a plan to me.
@Square Haggis @ 8.56
Managed decline was the term coined by Maggie Thatcher as her way of dealing with opposition to her plans in Liverpool. Basically they cut it’s funding for anything that could be considered as infrastructure, job creation, investment in new industries etc so the city went downhill for lack of money. She thought she would destroy the soul of the city but that only made Liverpool even more resistant to her policies.
Remarkably like Scotlands resistance today.
‘So we can put a space probe on a comet, but we still can’t work out how to put a banker in prison.’
Where is the Secretary of State for Plymouth, Alistair Carmichael, in all of this?. Doesn’t he have any comment to make to those shipbuilders on the Clyde?. Surely they deserve some sort of reassurance from the ‘baby calf’ eating wine drinking git about their future.
What makes Alex Salmond a great statesman is not just his unrivalled political skills, but his genuine desire and efforts to create a fair and just society in Scotland.
I hope he now takes our fight to Westminster as the leader of 50+ SNP MPs.
I have not given up hope of seeing an independent Scotland in March 2016.
We have been robbed of victory by the most disgusting dishonest campaign in political history and we must not give up until this gross injustice has been reversed.
Lets hope Murphy wins then link to news.stv.tv
Is anyone coming to Perth on Saturday? Twitter and some yes pages are encouraging folks,flags,banners outside at the end of the conference as a thank-you to Alex Salmond as PM. Not sending him to obscurity yet though. More ‘now go get Westminster kind of thing.
Yes will miss question time at Holyrood, and Mr Salmonds razor wit. I also agree that the people who voted NO were stupid, gullible and selfish. but guess what?. We need a certain amount of them for next time. Win them over with the help of all the shit coming from Tories and SLAB and we will never look back. Forget recrimination, you only hurt yourself. Aim to be the winner at the end of this game.
I was having a look on the Smith Commission website at the breakdown of submissions to the Commission.
I think it safe to say that there is a slight lean to Home Rule/Devo Max 🙂
I guess it will not be long now before we see the gist of the proposals. If the Commission does produce a robust set of proposals (and it may) it will fascinating to see what Labour do. I expect the Tories, long opposed to devolution, to now back Smith simply because if nothing else it will unsettle Ed and make him look anti-English.
None of this means the “Vow” will be honoured but if the proposals are sound and they are not delivered then it strengthens the argument for another referendum sooner rather than later.
@Bob Mack 11.13
too true – its not enough to be right – we have to bring people with us (at least 6% anyway) – moaning about oldies is for losers.
OT Alex Salmond’s last FMQs. The most ungracious display for such an event I have ever witnessed, fully backed. of course, by the Greek choir of BBC Scotland.
At some point, even they must feel just a little bit dirty.
For your own well being Unionists, listen to that inner voice which tells you you are doing wrong, however supressed and faint it is.
1 oldie but No Loser
chorus
Some late-evening questions:
Will anyone in the Labour party, at National or Scottish Branch level, support Jackie Baillie’s performance this afternoon? If not, why not?
Is it true that Duncan Hothersall used to be a commenter on Wings? (I can’t be bothered trawling through archives to find out.)
If it is true, will he accept a polite invitation to come back here and state the case for the Scottish Labour Party?
Murphy as a Beaver? Not so sure about that one. Beavers work hard and build things, although I suspect Murphy would be happy being associated with lodges if there were a vote in it.
Stoker, I would humbly suggest that you temper your arguments,
although I doubt that you will.
I have read your posts and I agree with 99.9% of what I have seen.
If anything I would be more vitriolic in my descriptions of the red
tory cunts.
However I digress.
In recent weeks I have seen people posting and being “put down”
by regular posters.
Some of them have been “trolls”, but most have been yessers who
just want to be heard.
The trolls are easily spotted.
The yessers are out here, please do not scare them away.
Will BritLab NEVER EVER learn? Probably not. I listened to today’s FMQ on-line and was disgusted with Jackie Baillie’s downright derogatory, dismissive attitude towards Alex… not ONE word of acknowledgement, never mind a gracious farewell…and then just signed off with a ‘cheerio’!!! For goodness sake grow up and show some civility (as did Wullie at least), rather than ply the poisonous bile that has discredited you and your lost party. What sort of a bias society are you trying to failingly create?? Sooner (rather than later) you should and will reap the disastrous harvest that you have sown… hurry up May 5th, 2015… 2016…2017….2020??
@Chic McGregor –
We seem to have been thinking along similar lines more or less simultaneously.
There must be many loyal Labourites (and No-voters of all shades) who watched Baillie today and felt themselves blush to their toes.
No normal human being (whether or not they belong to, or support any political party) can defend such behaviour. Baillie embarrassed all of us today – in that respect, she accurately represents the Labour Party in Scotland.
If the First Minister had collapsed and died during FMQ then Jackie Baillie would have continued to read her lines ……. she showed no sense of awareness, whatsoever.
@ Ian Brotherhood
I just watched the last AS FMQs.
Considering the importance of the occasion, I thought Jackie Baillie’s performance was astoundingly graceless. Ditto Ruth Davidson.
It was incumbent on them to articulate a suitably valedictory statement. It is a historical event, the significance of which has clearly escaped them. AS was, as usual, in tune with the mood of the moment. he was also on top of the issues they flung at him. He really is head and shoulders above the opposition.
Baillie achieved the impossible at FMQs – she made herself look small
@ HandandShrimp I watched Smith com today in 2 committee rooms of Hollyrood Parly. I dont share your veiws,the most likely outcome will be more devolved powers for local authorities, to take power away from a Scottish gov.
I get the feeling that since IndyRef,
the Unionist Establishment has turned away.
As if they’re going to make no effort on Scotland’s behalf.
The revenues have been secured.
Like milking the cow but not caring for it any more.
Let’s face it, Westminster could seriously impoverish Scotland, while oil & gas revenues would be undiminished
and electricity and water supplies would remain intact.
With no political value in Scotland for a Unionist Gov.,
why would Westminster waste money on us?
I should have added that Willie Rennie did at least acknowledge the success of the FM before launching into knee jerk attack.
What an appalling bunch of shysters these people are.
For the tweeters – they are trying to get the #ThanksAlex to trend UK wide
Arabs for Independence says:
14 November, 2014 at 12:01 am
Baillie achieved the impossible at FMQs – she made herself look small
:::::::::::
I am not in favour of using someone’s physical appearance as a vehicle for insult nor for petty point scoring.
There is far too much of that on many of the football and political websites that I frequent.
But that, sir, is a the quote of the day !
Chapeau doffed.
OT the downside of joining a local anti fracking group is the obvious No voters in the group.
One tonight TELLING me he shall vote for Neil Findlay, because he shall be a leader of some influence.
My response – what? Like Lamont?
No reply.
Fair puts you off trying to do some community work.
@ Valerie
“Fair puts you off trying to do some community work.”
I can understand that; it must be very dispiriting. But it does also give you the opportunity to highlight their weaknesses to all those observing, as you seem to have already done!
Even if you don’t influence your Findlay supporter, you might inspire someone else.
Just watched Salmond’s last FMQ’s and make it 215 – nil to the man, he seems to have enjoyed every minute of it and clearly has plenty energy left, I just hope we see him down at Westminster next year, leading a powerful group of SNP MP’s, as to be honest, without them, I dread to think what will happen to Scotland and its people.
Just watched Alex’s final FMQs.
To the very end he showed his qualities as a political leader.
His opponents in Holyrood will be glad he is leaving them, because he offers a standard that none of them could ever hope to achieve, and thereby reminds them of their very considerable failings.
As for Ruth Davidson, she has a lot to learn but I doubt if she’ll be given the time to do so.
Jackie Baillie for Labour meanwhile, reminding Scotland that the Labour party has nothing to offer except hatred and contempt for Scotland’s first choice party of Government and for the Scottish electorate who voted SNP to run Scotland’s affairs.
One wonders if ANY of the present Labour MSPs will return to Holyrood in 2016 after the ‘homecoming’ of so many deposed Labour MPs after GE15.
@Macnakamura says:
‘Chapeau doffed’
I’m sure I swallied a couple of bottles of that just the other week there.
(It was a cheeky little wine and I was amused by its presumption . . . )
We’ve all been getting a lot of the ‘Lest We Forget’ stuff these past few days.
But you can’t ‘forget’ stuff you didn’t know to begin with.
Duncan Hothersall, Jackie Baillie, Miliband, Darling, Brown, Murphy and all their buddies would rather no-one ever clapped eyes on this:
link to iraqbodycount.org
Pray tell, Duncan et al – how did the ‘UK’ get involved in this genocide? Was it all the Tories’ fault?
Hmmm?
@crazycat, thank you for the support. It requires quite a lot of tongue biting on my part, and the Admin are asking us all to try and restrict politics, but it is a political subject. I will have to just keep the bigger picture and goal in mind.
I just think Alex Salmond is a giant among the midgets of the Opposition, and I think they get visibly dispirited at the fact they can’t beat him. It’s like talented, agile footballers being physically tackled by the less agile and talented on the field.
I can’t bear to think of him off the scene, and I hope, selfishly, it’s a new chapter.
Yeah, on subject of today’s FMQs, much inconsistency noted on Baillie’s attempt to attack the FM for considering standing for a WM seat. Surely this is merely recognising the (unfortunate) political reality that we still have to deal with Westminster and trying to get in about it? Can’t really do any more to ‘accept the result’ as they all demand, in my view, than going to work inside the Parliament for what he believes in? I wonder when will the unionist parties realise it is they who are inconsistent in the things they shout about, demand, and say they believe in?
Just watched the FMQs, Baillie was absolutely deplorable, so bile filled, and intellectually challenged.
Much as it pains me to say, I think Ruth Davidson was at least some semblance of professional.
Baillie saying cheering, was just disgusting puerile behaviour, I found her very uncomfortable viewing.
Valerie @ 2:16am
I hesitate to go as far as saying Ruth Davidson was ‘likeable’ because that’s too far. But, in fact, you can at least see that she’s learned you should turn up with evidence when you’re going to argue a particular point and expect people to listen. She also appears to have something of a sense of humour and got a kick out of what the FM had to say to her. In fact, I would argue that the Tories and Lib Dems (for the sort time Rennie spoke) showed due respect to the position of FM….and found that respect returned…..notions well beyond Labour, who think everyone should respect them simply because they command it.
I’m expecting them to keep the weasel words up until May, and then after the general election they’ll give the contract to France.
There is absolutely no way that this contract is staying on the Clyde. Its already being floated as an idea in both Parliament and the MoD. That’s as good as confirmation as we will get that its moving, because as Stu pointed out, this is how it always starts. Once an idea takes route, it usually grows. That goes for both us and them.
*root
Brainfart moment
Do you see the LOOK on that poor wee creature’s face?
Pretty cross and how very dare you!
I do not think that weasel appreciates being linked in any way whatsoever, including it’s native tongue, with the No campaign!
On GMS this morning, SNP conf to announce rules to be changed so that non SNP high profile YES campaigners will be allowed to stand as PPC as long as approved by constituencies. YES!
The gateway to a Yes Alliance?
Oh aye, and that’s a Polecat, not a weasel, although being occasionally pedantic, they are along with Stoats (they of the ermine)all members of the Weasel family (Mustelids), not to mention, Otters, Pine Martens, Mink and Wolverine.
Weasels have a yellow belly, a bit like a fair number of the Scottish electorate…
link to tinyurl.com
So big Al makes a past and present statement and not ONE mainstream journalist asks about the future? Do these people not even care about the job anymore? What a thoroughly useless crowd, no wonder they’re all losing their jobs. Incompetent
Paula Rose says
Rev- any pictures of a tergiversate?
What?
Like this you mean?
link to tinyurl.com
JP Fife says
“We built warships during the Second World War outside these shores. They were not complex warships but simple things like the so-called Landing Ship,”
I think he forgot about these JP
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
link to tinyurl.com
I could go on, but you get the gist,
where were they made?
Oh,
The Good ol US of A
lend lease is one of those “little things” can one so easily let slip ones mind,
and just like PFI we were charged through the nose by our good friends the yanks to the extent that the last repayments from lend last were finally made by Gordon Brown on the fourth of May 2006.
Ghillie says
“Do you see the LOOK on that poor wee creature’s face?
Pretty cross and how very dare you!”
Well that’s enough about Jackie Baillie,
lets talk about something else now! 🙂
That link just takes you to the tinyurl site Croompenstein
There’s that disgusting creature Kay (with an E) asking for people to call in to cast judgement on Alex Salmond’s tenure as 1st minister,
no prizes for guessing who they’ll let through to the phone in and who they wont,
that woman is truly revolting
THE MANS GONE LEAVE HIM IN PEACE FOR GODS SAKE!
@thinkagain
Navies have traditionally used the cutlass. Sabres are a cavalry weapon. The cutlass has a shorter blade than a sabre, with all the rigging in sailing ships a long blade was a liability. So the Admiral was cutlass rattling.
@Handandshrimp & ronnie anderson.
Is it the case that whatever the Smith Commision decides has to be approved by the Scottish Parliament?
Simon Pia putting the boot into Alex Salmond on Calll Kaye .Particularly on the SNP “failure ” to defend College places. What is the story with colleges and why do the SNP not defend themselves.
I understood that the shake up in Colleges was to get a more efficient tertiary system and get rid of out of date courses.
What IS the story?
Another morning at BBC Scotland Paciifc quay, Simon Pai unionist propaganda jcompares Salmond to Hilter and Thatcher but no Pol Pot yet, in Call Kaye says goodbye to Alex. What a bunch.
Ian Brotherhood @ 01:28
Lest we forget
There is no chance of that happening with wall to wall mourning and endless stories of how people miss those they never knew and never met.
The whole ‘lest we forget’ has become quite tasteless and opportunistic
O/t
@chipmonkey Yes I’m thinking of popping up to Perth for about 3.30pm. Hopefully to Show Alex Salmond that some do hold him in high regard!
I used to listen to Radio Scotland all day. Now I don’t!
Sky are waxing lyrical about Nicola taking the reigns today. I think they are building us up for another full on assault before the GE. Always suspicious!
Minor change of tack (keeping with the nautical theme)
Here’s Ch4’s economics editor getting a bit worked up about banks
link to facebook.com
Call Kaye?
So the reason they are haemorrhaging listeners on a quarterly basis still hasn’t sunk in yet? People with neither empathy or understanding. Opinions written out for them and trotted out to order. What is the point of them really? Who do they think they are serving? Its certainly not the public.
Got to say, I stopped listening when Derek chucked it. Haven’t tuned in since and the blood pressure problem has improved no end. When they finally go will they be missed? Will anyone notice and considering how they have served us over the past two years especially, will anyone care?
Scotland was conned out of Independence by Westminster and the unionists media, most reasonable minded people are now aware of that, and accept that is the case.
The question now is how do we respond to this. In the run up to the 2015 general election, Scotland now has two choices, we either vote as we have always done letting Westminster know that they can do pretty much what they want to us, or we vote in as many SNP MPs as Scotland can, and show them that we are not going to take their shit any more.
Why is it that Simon Pia always sounds pissed? In the evenings fair enough, but first thing in the morning.
Re college places, Brit LAbour are always bleating about it in terms of numbers of places, but I think, from memory that includes thousands of short courses ( days or weeks) which have been chucked out and replaced with longer/ proper courses. If the numbers are crunched to look at students in college, the figures show the opposite. This is only my vague memories so others can correct or amend where applicable.
My understanding of the Parliament is that Holyrood has to vote on whether to accept or not any new legislation from Westminster. Smith commission can only recommend anyway and then it’ll get chucked out by either the backbenchers or the HOL
For the foreseeable future,
Scotland is faced with three major issues:-
Climate change, neo-Liberalism, Unionism at home.
These will probably require sustained concentration
over a lengthy period
for none of them is going to simply disappear,
and each appears somewhat challenging.
However, until Independence has been secured,
we are not masters in our own house.
All our efforts therefore ought to be focussed
on the single goal of self-determination.
For those who have not done so –
that’s all 1.5 million of you –
may I urge you to join an Independence party
of your choice.
It need only be until we get Independence,
but till we get it, it is a very easy
way of making a real difference.
Be positive – become a member!
And do it now. It’s easy online.
@ Macart, Call Kaye is horrible but it’s fascinating hearing the sheer hatred for Salmond oozing out of BBC Pacific Quay from unionists and in particular unionist parrties absolutely enraged that they may well nay be finished in Scotland for good. Fair enough and who do Labour in Scotland zealots blame, AlicSamin. They have all that sense of UKOK self entitlement losing furry, that only teamGB in Scotand gives you and ofcourse the angry anti renewable energy English lady worried about the price of her house in the Highlands, also because of AlicSamin. The only good thing about all the anger? shows how little they understand why their right to rule Scotland is over and that’s another great Salmond acheivement.
Had to go to the BBC to find Stewart Hosie has been voted deputy leader of SNP? Good choice but all candidates were excellent.
I wouldn’t listen to Kaye if you paid me.
If fewer listened to Kaye
she wouldn’t get paid either.
@heed
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Beeb got stuck on the last one. 🙂
@ manandboy
Did you notice the front page of the Times yesterday? An Oxford Professor of Energy Policy, Deiter Helm – OXFORD! – talking nonsense about SNP renewable energy plans. He has clearly no idea about wave power or hydro-electric. He doesn’t seem to realise that the artificially low oil price is engineered between Washington and Saudi to trash the Russian and Iranian economies (we’re just collateral damage in this policy). Maybe he is being funded by the Nuclear Industry. I didn’t buy the Times, only the front cover via kiosk.
link to archive.today
Alex is surely the greatest proponent of Independence.
But I’ll never forget the day I read The McCrone Report.
On that day I knew for the first time
exactly where I stood as a Scot.
However, I did accidentally click on the page and arrived at an article on the drive to recruit the over 50s into the armed forces after Capita, with their £50m a year budget plus millions spent on media adverts, recruited only 20 reservists last year!. I reckon Stu could double that with £50m.
link to archive.today
I was making soup and put bbc scot Call Kaye on.
Simon Pia was pretty awful. Even commented that Alex hit him once!
Lots of SNP=nazis comments as well. Kaye apologised then repeated them.
To be fair they did allow some positive callers on but there is just such a strong level of hate out there about Alex Salmond you wonder where it came from (MSM ).
Ah well. Soup tastes good.
Ps hope you have used #thanksAlex to show your appreciation. Its been trending quite nicely on Twitter. Funny too
Peace
and finally, from the Times, two months too late but nevermind, “The Power of Scotland”. Even dear old Sir Ian Wood gets the spotlight at the end. Who thought irony had died?
link to issuu.com
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Pleased to hear Stewart Hosie has won, as others have said all the candidates were excellent I had a hard choice to make. I want to thank X_Sticks for the interview with Alex Salmond on Newsweek, it was superb and so Alex.
Thanks Capella for the Times energy piece.
Objective – to weaken Alex’s credibility and by association
the Independence movement.
Result – to damage his own name and further weaken the credibility of WM.
Just more WM propaganda aimed at the uninformed Times readership.
Everyone should know that the rivers still flow
tho’ the wind fail to blow.
The massive Cruachan Hydro System on Loch Awe is an example of the kind of still air solution that Dieter Helm clearly knows nothing about.
Unionists out in force over at the spectator. Really nasty comments.
@Alan Mackintosh says: 14 November, 2014 at 9:57 am:
“Why is it that Simon Pia always sounds pissed?”
Who He? Seems like just a small minded, bitter nonentity and obviously jealous of a great man’s popularity. Mind you I have a vague memory this numptie was a spin Doctor for Wendy Alexander – would that be correct? Wasn’t he supposed to be some kind of writer or something like that?
I am reliably informed that the pic at the top of this article is, in fact, a ferret. Good article though 😉
Slightly O/T
Just reading Stu’s remark on twitter about the pound falling since Scotland voted no.
Go me thinking
The politicians are belly aching about the cots of petrol at the pump and something must be done about it, since the price of oil has fallen. On the face of it, you would think yeah their right, why should we be paying high prices on the pump when the price of oil has fallen so much.
But for the more astute of you will figure that as oil is priced in US dollars and the pound is equally collapsing.
The true fall of oil prices in relation to forecourt at pump prices isn’t that much
Did a quick exercise correlating Brent crude converted to sterling cost since September 5th, when it was the equivalent of GBP 0.38 per litre, it has only gone down to GBP 0.31 per litre today. In fact in October it was GBP 0.35 per litre.
So pump prices have come down more or less by about the same amount and Westminster is whistling up its own backside.
The problem for Westminster will be if the cost of oil starts to go up, but sterling stays static or continues to fall
As I said, almost daily, during the referendum campaign: “Everything they say is a lie”
I believe that politicians and the public forget the history of the United Kingdom. Britain for the past hundreds of years has been THE EPITOMY of a Fascist State. Look at how many countries we have taken over, slaughtered the inhabitants in order to civilise them and then pillaged and robbed their resources for our own benefit whilst telling them it was noble to be cared for by the British (England continues to do the latter).The new Scotland, and I do mean new, has woken up at last and wants to travel a different road, where we can be part of genuine interaction with the rest of the world by concensus. Was it really such a surprise that Hitler saw the British as a potential ally before the start of ww2 in his quest for total world domination, given our history .S.N.P. membership clearly does not fit the term fascist, though I would love it if my fellow Scots decided like myself to join. I wont force them but I will try to convince them. Labour under Blair repeated the mistakes of the past, almost trying to control other civilisations and bend them to his and G.W. Bush,s will, at the cost of countless lives. Who then exactly are the party with Fascist traits?. Well even worse is coming down the line in the form of U.K.I.P. and Tory coalition .Now there is real Fascism for you ,and it is something to shout about to anyone who will listen.
The trouble is, you can’t say that. No matter how true it is, you’ll only be shouted down and nobody will take you seriously.
Bob Mack
Agree with a lot of that. Intimation of the vile nature of the British Empire and its lasting legacy of negativity for the World, intended or not, deluded or not, should at least be attempted. Although the denial ceiling will be tough to break through.
@Morag @Chris
Yes I will be shouted down, but the truth is what it is. Mr Mandela taught us that you should not avoid the truth for convenience sake. This is driven home to me when reading Editorials and the letters pages of newspapers filled with insistent and persistent writers demanding that we the 1.6 million give up our dream of independence. You lost, bow down. The self serving Labour politicians demanding that we understand in spite of our stupidity that we should come to heel and see them as our saviours. “Forget everything we did before. We have changed ,honest!!” I realise anew that I have many true characteristics of a Scot .I will not bow down,but I will fight you every inch of the way. They are not pouring cold water on the fire that burns within for freedom. They are pouring petrol, with every word they write which denies me my basic right of self determination.
[…] We’re sure our ever-alert readers don’t need telling, but it never hurts to put up a little refresher course for those who might have joined recently. […]
Actually that’s a ferret, a (semi?)domesticated polecat, can’t you smell it? Not a weasel, a weasel is a nice wee beast, something stotally different.
Bob Mack @
The indy train wasn’t scheduled to arrive for another 18 months or so. Due to a blockage on the line it’s been rerouted, so passengers may experience a slight delay … but we still expect to reach our destination. Meantime enjoy the change of scenery 😉
What IS the story?
Too many jumped up technical colleges calling themselves ‘universities’ and demanding greater funds than before and raising salaries to justify false status, duplicating courses and services with the college down the road whilst not providing courses we need.